July 22, 2024 • 51 mins
Over the 4th of July weekend, we embarked on an epic Marvel Cinematic Universe marathon, revisiting some of the greatest moments in Marvel movie history. Now, we're each sharing our favorite MCU films and why we love them so much.
In this episode, Nate dives into the mystical world of Doctor Strange, exploring its themes of time, reality, and perception, and how science and faith intertwine. Then, Dad reflects on the political intrigue of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, discussing loyalty, identity, and the crucial balance between freedom and security. Finally, Sam celebrates the monumental achievement of Avengers: Endgame, examining its profound exploration of grief, sacrifice, and the ethics of power.
Don't miss this in-depth look at our top MCU picks, why they resonate with us, and the powerful themes they explore. Tune in for thoughtful discussions, movie ratings, and more!
Subscribe on Substack for weekly recaps, in-depth explorations, and community engagement. Catch new episodes on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and join our journey through pop culture's modern mythology.
Subscribe to our SUBSTACK to stay up to date (completely FREE).
In this episode, Nate dives into the mystical world of Doctor Strange, exploring its themes of time, reality, and perception, and how science and faith intertwine. Then, Dad reflects on the political intrigue of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, discussing loyalty, identity, and the crucial balance between freedom and security. Finally, Sam celebrates the monumental achievement of Avengers: Endgame, examining its profound exploration of grief, sacrifice, and the ethics of power.
Don't miss this in-depth look at our top MCU picks, why they resonate with us, and the powerful themes they explore. Tune in for thoughtful discussions, movie ratings, and more!
Subscribe on Substack for weekly recaps, in-depth explorations, and community engagement. Catch new episodes on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and join our journey through pop culture's modern mythology.
Subscribe to our SUBSTACK to stay up to date (completely FREE).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Tattooed Suns a pop culturepodcast, the only fan podcast to name
a Cannon Star Wars creature and tobe endorsed by the writer director of The
Last Jedi Don't Get Cocky, RyanJohnson on the what's the New One?
What's the new Knives Out? Movies? Coming out with soon? What was
it calling you Don't Speak? ThatWake Up dead Man? That one?
Yeah, and that movie I'm interestedanyway. On the fourth of July weekend,
(00:24):
we started watching MCU movies and couldn'tstop. It was a blast revisiting
some of the greatest moments in Marvelmovie history. And it's because we were
on the Captain America, right,We were doing Captain America tho. But
that kind of touches a little bitof everything for those first pretty much three
or four phases. So yeah,you know, we got a little bit
of taste everything. But so thisweek we're going to each share our favorite
(00:46):
MCU film and why we love itso much. This is Tattooed Soun's true
was the name of the Pork andthe Millennium Falcon Force, the storm in
my family? What do you thinkhis name is? That's a big moment
(01:11):
I am a Jedi like my fatherbefore me. Maybe Turbis do ill do
not? At least no trib TurbisPablo. If you're listening to this live
(01:32):
stream, bat Pork's name is nowTurbus. It's a good Star Wars name.
We're not done yet. These guysrecorded Blosso podcast after so everybody was
(01:53):
which MCU movie? So you guysare getting ready to go in September,
right September sixth to go see?Tell tell me what this is made.
It's Hans Zimmer live. It's hisSo why is this such a big deal.
Well, it's the first time he'shad a US concert in over seven
years, I think. So Ilove that it's been quite a lot.
What is it like? I mean, what's like the allure of a Hans
(02:15):
Zimmer concert kind of like a rockshow? Then I live the Petrol concert
just does a compilation of all thisstuff and makes has done an No,
he is not okay. Now,you guys are big movie film score super
nerds, like across the Board,that's what you guys listen to. Like.
(02:37):
We've even joked about doing a podcastseries called the Movie Makes the Music,
and the Music makes the Movie.Right, which I'll start with you.
I'll start with you, Sam,Which MCU film has the best score?
I never asked that question till afterI've done it. This is the
right answer. Yeah, I meanI can only there's only one that really
stands out, and it's it's arksStrange. Really Yeah, I knew Nathan
(03:01):
was good. The key, rightanswer it is, I say it right
like this, All right, there'sthere's really no other mcu score that feels
as fleshed out as that one.And and well got the harpsichord. It's
the entire movie. Yeah, yeah, the entire movie gets varied, and
it follows the arc of of StephenStrange throughout the entire thing. It goes
(03:23):
from more of a piano to theharpsichord as the theme goes on. It's
it's really good. It's a reallygreat score. It's consistently good across the
board. And there's lots of movieshave great themes, but like the whole
score isn't as good exactly as theStrange one. Yeah, but welcome to
Tap to Me, Sons of popCulture podcast. We believe that pop culture
(03:43):
is the mythology of this generation.Lots of that in Marvel and that there's
a story written on our souls,and that these myths speak to that story.
And that's why we're looking back atour favorite Marvel movies and discussing what
we love about them. Don't forgetto subscribe to stubs stub like Stack.
Yeah, Substack. We're doing somethinga little, a little special we're pushing
(04:05):
for for some subscribers. All that, Dad, bring this one in a
mission for you. I think thedogs coming in join us. Rex are
dog named after Captain Rex. I'lltell mebody Moms named after Rex from toy
story Everyone in Wrong actually named afterCaptain Rex from Star Wars. Captain Rex.
We named the first dog we nameda Star Wars character off of our
(04:26):
second dog we named after Star Warscharacters, so you know, we had
to balance her anyway. So we'retrying to get to a hundred and subscribers.
We need we need your help beingone hundred one of our hundred subscribers.
But once we do that, weare going to release a sub stack
exclusive special podcast series called The ChristianMyth where we are going to be looking
(04:53):
at you know, we talk aboutit the opening of every episode. Right,
there's a story written on our souls. These myths speak to that story
that is is literally ripped out ofEcclesiastes. I think I'm remembering the verse
number right now, Ecclesiastes four toeleven that says that eternity or heaven is
written on our hearts. And sowe're going to walk through the Christian myth.
(05:16):
And when I say myth, I'mnot talking about like myth is in
being not true. I'm talking aboutmyth as being the classic philosophical idea of
a myth that's a massive epic story. C. S. Lewis came to
faith as a result. He wasan atheist that came to faith in Christ
and became one of the greatest Christiantheologians and apologists of our time as a
(05:42):
result of the myth of Christianity andunderstanding it and talking about as part of
the inklands. So we're going tolook at what is the Christian myth,
whether or not you believe that thatmyth is true or not. I think
that you're going to find the story, the myth of of what the Christian
story is, even if fascinating whenyou hear it that way. The problem
(06:04):
with most people's opinion about Christianity isthat it is not told mythically. It
is told dogmatically, and I thinkthat's why we have so many problems.
Dogmatically, it's about rules and regulationsand dues and don't and there are things
(06:25):
within our faith that are part ofthat. But the reality is we miss
the big wonder of the story whenwe miss the mythic element of it,
and so we When we get toone hundred subscribers, I will begin releasing
a series. I've already been begunplanning it. I've already got the first
episode scripted. We're going to releasea series of episodes exclusively for those of
(06:49):
you subscribing on Substack on the Christianmyth and I think that you're gonna be
I think you're gonna love it.I think you're gonna be fascinated about it.
All right, Well enough talking aboutwhat we're going to talk about.
Let's talk about what we're talking about. So let's start with with you,
Nate. Two talks first, Youfirst, I talk first. You know,
(07:10):
you kind of teased it a littlebit with your favorite score, but
your favorite movie, MCO movie,excuse me, is what is your favorite?
It's inception isn't it? Yes?If you know, like I think
yesterday was the birthday of Exception.Really it was the inception of Exception,
the inception. No, because theinception happened when he thought about it,
which was like or did he cameout or was it somebody did they plant
(07:31):
the brain? I mean we couldanyway. Your favorite movie is Inception,
but your favorite MCO movie is DoctorStrange. Yeah, for sure. So
why do you love this film?Something like? I know you could probably
talk about it for an entire thirtyminutes, but boil it down, you
know it? If you could,you know, twitter it ninety seconds?
(07:54):
Yeah, twitter it? Why doyou love this film? I don't even
think any ninety seconds. I thinkI can firmly say that it has the
greatest single movie character arc in theMCU, most impress There's just no doubt
about it. He goes through oneof the greatest arcs in an hour and
fifty minutes and it's just seamless.It's perfect. So you're saying that he
(08:16):
doesn't necessarily have the best character arcin the MCU. You're just saying that
this film has the best character arccontained to No, it's hard to compete
with Loki and iron Man and allthat as in character arcs, but they
contained in a single film. Yeah, this beats any of them. So
interesting. Let's go, let's doa little roundtable. We always, you
(08:37):
know, when we talk about moviesand stuff, we like to give our
little letterbox rating, which, ifyou're not familiar with what that is,
it's an app where you can logthe movies you watch and give them a
rating. You can see whatever youfollow Sam and Nat on there. I
think it's a like Sam Jesse andNathan Jesse if you want to Nate Jess
call. So it's just a funway to you know, rate what you're
what you're watching. And the waythe system works is it's five stars,
(09:00):
can give him halves and then there'salso a like or not like function on
it. So we kind of haveadopted that system when we talk about movies.
So what would you rate Doctor Strangeon letterboxed that I want to I
want you to go. I'm goingto go first. Yeah, I want
you to go first. Okay,I'm just gonna be transparent. I didn't
(09:20):
I mean it was it was afine movie. The first time I saw
it, I didn't really care forit the same way that Nathan did with
it. I've grown to appreciate itmore and more. But I haven't watched
it very many times. It's beena long time since you've seen it,
you know. But every time I'vewatched it, I've liked it more.
So I'll go I'll go four outof five stars and a like. I
mean, that's solid. That's prettyfor me, that's a pretty high rating.
(09:43):
That's pretty good. What about you, Sam? I would probably give
it four as well. I'm kindait's been a minute since I've seen it,
but I have the theme in myhead now the talked about it.
You know, I feel like i'dhave to I'd have to rate Multiverse Madness
higher. I just I just knowhe's kidding. Yeah, I'm doing that
(10:09):
to Tea because he was very disappointedwith Multiverse and Madness. But no,
but for real, this film,I would give it a four, and
I like, you know, I'mpretty much almost any MCU movie i'll get
a like. But it was ait was a really solid movie. It
was fun. You're right. Itdoes have a great character art for Stephen.
I love the magic. The visualeffects are great. They're the best
in the MCU to this day,for sure, what would you give it?
(10:33):
It's it's five and the like,I don't think that it can.
It doesn't make sense to rank itlower. It's a great arc and one
of these shorter MCU movies as well, which just shows the storytelling capabilities that
they've achieved with it. I likethe themes. I like the not like
musical themes, but kind of yeah, the overall themes of the movie.
(10:58):
Yeah, speaking of that, youknow, you know you mentioned themes,
and like one of the major mcguffinsof this film is the timestone, right,
and because of the prominence of that, Doctor Strange kind of centers on
the idea of time and things likethat. Right in that theme, you
(11:18):
know, how how does this movieaddress the concept of time? Let you
go, Nate, Yeah, thisis your this is your jam just a
quick you know. It approaches timeas a very it is a very serious
subject and a lot of them areconcerned about it, but Steven sees it
as more of a in certain ways, something to be appreciated, but something
(11:39):
that can be molded, a tool, a tool with the ibogamato and all
that, and and we see him, you know, use it at the
end against dorm Mamu and and kindof putting dorm Mamu in a prison,
prison of eternity until Stephen gets whathe wants and he leaves Earth. So
he does see it as a tool, but he also appreciates the power of
(12:01):
time, so and he doesn't abuseit. No, no, not at
all. Which you know you mentionedthat moment which is such a creative way
for the hero to defeat the villain. It's not a big CGI. I
mean you have that with you kindof had that kind of but it's shorter.
The battle is really with the mindgames of Dormamu, which and it
shows do we know what happened withdo not yet? Where he's still just
(12:24):
he'll do he'll probably show back upand the third Doctor Strange or something so
which he may be announcing it sanDiego. Yeah, it's this week.
Hopefully they get a good director back. But y'all you mentioned themes in Doctors
Strange, right, and one ofthose is reality and perception. You know,
(12:48):
what we what we see isn't alwaysnecessarily what is real. I think
what you know an interesting moment ofall that is when Doctor Strange first makes
it to the sanctums and homage orcommartage, that's it. And he's like,
it's just another building. There wasnothing special. She's like starts bringing
(13:09):
out acupuncture books and chi and stuff, and he's like, oh, so
this is a joke, right,And then there's that moment when he gets
like hurled through through time and stuffsdimensions and whatnot. You know, Dad
Nathan kind of had his you know, talked about time and things. But
what are your thoughts on this wholeconcept of you know, what you see
(13:31):
may not be what's really there.Yeah, I think it relates kind of
to time. When I think aboutthis, when I think about time,
I think about you know, wetalked about it even in the previous part
of the show when we were talkingabout the Christian myth. The idea is
we look at time linear. There'sa beginning, there's an end, and
then there's everything that happens in between. And as as what I like about
(13:54):
doctor Strange is is he's able tosee time as something that he that can
be perceived as being outside of timeand looking into time and perception is the
same way, right, So you'relooking at everything from from multiple dimensions,
multiple angles with it and I lovethe idea that time is not just kind
(14:20):
of like something that can be movedforward through and moved back through, but
it can be it changed around.I think that that we see that a
lot more in some of the currentstuff that's happened within post end game timeline
timelines and the multiverse. And that'swhy, you know, I mean,
as much as Multiverse and Madness wasas not as a satisfying of a film
(14:45):
as we had hoped it would havebeen, it's not as bad as you
but the reality is, you know, we see that more in that.
I think that that's where where itcomes with what you see isn't what it's
like what we saw last night withthe the Illusionist at the at the church
thing that we do where he waslike he was talking about you know time.
(15:07):
You know, the way we perceivethings is is is different with it
anyway, So I know I'm notmaking a lot of sense with it,
but yeah, you know, oneinteresting thing, and you know, up
until this point, I didn't noticethis sort of what's the word I'm looking
(15:28):
for concept of the character until literallyjust now. Is this conflict between science
and mysticism, right, and thatscience and faith or magic. Don't this
you know this other thing? Don'thave to always stand in conflict with each
other. And I don't know whyI never grasped the the interesting nature of
(15:48):
making a brain surgeon, doctor amagician, you know, I I someone
who's who's so in the science worldfact what you can observe and record is
what's real, and then putting himin this mindset of literally, you don't
(16:10):
know anything anymore. Everything's like crazyand magical, Right, Nate, what
are your thoughts on that have youhad? Did you pick up on that
that juxtaposition that they do with thecharacter I did? They They kind of
bring that into it a lot,and they even in the ancient one tells
him to forget everything he thinks heknows, like everything you have come to
(16:33):
learn, spent decades learning and beinga master of doesn't matter in this scenario.
And you might be a genius andthat might help you learn the books,
but you have to have an amountof faith to be able to believe
it. So that's when she,you know, strands him on the top
of Mount Everest with a slingering andsays, have that and leaves some stranded
(16:56):
there because she needed to show himto have a little bit of faith and
forget the technical side. It can'tbrain his way out of the house.
So you just had to believe thatthat portal was going to open, and
it eventually did, and that's theturning point for his character. It's believing
at that point. So it isa very important part of his character and
everything that's brought into it. Yeah, you know, we we've been touching
(17:19):
on this concept of time a goodbit. But one thing that you brought
up dat is that time isn't necessarilylinear, right. You know, there's
the moment when Dharmam moves in timeloop. They even he's even even reverse
his time a few points, right, But we instinctively, you know,
I think this points out the factthat we instinctively know that there's something that
(17:41):
exists beyond our understanding of time oroutside are our concept of time, right.
You know you we mentioned it likeat the beginning of every podcast.
It myself, No, you mentionyourself this concept of eternity, because eternity
is not in time that you know, that's just the concept or the definition
of it. Eternity is written onour hearts. We have this innate longing
(18:04):
to understand this idea of eternity oror or explore it. Dad, What
what are your thoughts on that kindof concept that's explored in this movie.
Yeah, I think that, youknow, I had some you know,
I've done a lot of teaching inour you know, in church settings with
(18:26):
you know, college aged students thatare naturally questioning, right, they're trying
to understand and they may not havegrown up in a church setting. And
I've had one question that I alwaysseem to have people ask me is about
the idea of the trinity. Andif you're not familiar with the trinity,
it's like, you know, there'sthis one God, but he's seen in
(18:48):
three different people, and how canyou be one but be three different and
all of this other stuff. Andfirst of all, you know that it's
it's God, right, and sowhen the second that we understand how God
works, second he ceases to beGod. So that's the first thing that
I do. But the way I'vetried to describe trinity is you have an
author and he's outside of the story, and he's writing the story, and
(19:11):
then he chooses to then he's soengaged in what's happening in his story that
he actually rights himself as a characterwithin that story, and so he's outside
looking into the story, writing thestory himself, but then he's also a
character within it. And so whenwe see it when I use that as
(19:32):
an illustration to say, you know, time, we see it moving as
in, we have our birth date, we have our death date, we
have everything in between. That's nothow the force works. And then and
it moves linearly and yet time exists. You know, That's what the what
quantum physics is all about. That'swhat the TVA and what multiverse of madness
and what you know, all ofthe things that are going on with Deadpool
(19:57):
and Wolverine that comes out this weekis literally about time doesn't work the way
that we think it works, andwe want to make it linear, and
it doesn't work that way. AndI think that's one of the things that
I love about Doctor Strange is heallows you to view things from a different
perspective. Right, Yeah, Well, because Nathan would probably plot pop a
(20:19):
blood vessel or something, we won'ttake a time there we go there to
discuss doctor Strange in the multiverse ofmanas at least in detail in detail,
right Yeah, Instead we'll shift toDad's favorite MCU film, Captain America The
Winter Soldier. Okay, Dad,we'll kind of format your your movie the
(20:47):
same way we talk we did withNates. Now we get to really get
started. Yours was the appetizer NatesDad short Twitter ex post why do you
love this film so much? I'mthe only one of us that's actually on
Twitter. I want to go homeand rethink of my life. It's sure
I can do this. Yes,this is this. This is the movie
(21:08):
where Steve Rodgers grows up. Thisis where he becomes. He moves away
even in Avengers. Avengers is whatstarts it right the original Avengers movie,
he starts to see he can't trustNick Fury, he can't trust what's happening
around him. This is the moviewhere he realizes that this Steve is getting
worse all the time. It's thatthe world and reality is not is going
(21:29):
to be as black and white ashe wants it to be. And it
makes him a better character. Andthat's what makes Steve Rogers so special because
of what we're going to see,what we see in I know I'm going
over one hundred and forty characters here, but what we see with Civil War
is a Steve is a Steve Rodgers. Yeah, I'm threading. Oh we're
blue, so I can. Ican go as long as I want.
(21:53):
This is that moment both in themovie that Sharon Carter Carter steals from him
in the movie Civil War, what'sfrom the comic book Civil War, where
he's like, even though he knowsthat the world is not black and white
anymore, that there is weirdness goingon, that you can't trust people.
There's a point where you have totake a line. You have to draw
a line in the sand and sayI'm going to stand for this and that.
(22:15):
And you don't make that part ofCaptain America Steve Rogers work without him
coming to terms with the reality thatthings aren't as black and white that we
see. Yes, in this Nickis lying to him even more absolutely in
Winter Soldier, I bet yeah.All right, letterboxed rating, We'll do
same thing, just real quick,dad, Why don't you go for I
(22:36):
we went first with you last time, Nate not a box ready to go
A four point five? Like forsure. I think it's a great movie.
It's solid, it's it's really welldone, and I really do enjoy
it. I really do. It'sSam, what is yours? Yeah,
I'm gonna give a four point five, And I like whenever I think of
an MCU movie that just like allAround and we'll watch regularly. It's this
one. Plus it's got the bestfight choreography and stuff in the m c
(23:00):
U. In my opinion, it'sphenomenal Born Again. Yes, if you're
including the Netflix show, I thinkthat it loses to the I don't know,
man, there's some good stuff.You don't know. The hallway scene.
True, all right, Dad?What's what's your rating? Love?
No doubt? Like whatever, it'sa It's definite, without a doubt,
(23:22):
the best of all of the' youropinion it is mine's the only opinion that
works now, Winter Soldier. Itcenters around Steve's you know, continue journey
into a more like you mentioned,Dad, cynical and guarded view of the
government. Right. You know,when he went in the ice, for
the most part, he could trustthe country and the government wakes up and
(23:45):
he's been nothing but lied to literallysince the moment he woke up. Now,
why is this critical to Steve's growthas a character, because it goes
into the you know, it's it'sthe world is very different in World War
two, you know, nineteen fortyfive, when he goes into the Ice,
(24:07):
it's very clear, it would seemto be, it's very clear who
the good guys are the bad guysare when you deal with World War Two
and you've got Nazis that are literallyexterminating six million Jews and try to take
over the world and Japanese that aretrying to do the same thing, you
know, and so you've got areally clear, black and white situation.
(24:30):
And then he wakes up and he'sa man out of time when he wakes
up in New York City and beforethe Avengers movie, and you know,
he comes into that movie Avengers withthe same type of mindset as he had
when he went into the Ice.And so what we see at the opening
(24:52):
to The Winter Soldier is he's tryingto figure out who he is, what
his place is in this new world, and what the world really is.
And that's what the whole situation withSam is. That's what where he's talking
about, you know, even evenmovies and music and stuff. He's like
everything has changed and he's got tofigure out he's he's watching these movies,
(25:15):
he's listening to this music. He'sdoing these things to try to understand the
world as it is today. Andthe reality is he doesn't understand it until
he realizes that Shield is hydra andhe can't trust Samuel L. Jackson.
He can't trust Sharon. Sharon isa is a is a microcosm ast an
actor. Okay, Nick Heart,Nick Fury, he can't trust he can't
(25:37):
trust Sharon. I mean, Sharonis a perfect like small metaphor for everything
he goes through. She's the nursethat lives next door that he's got a
little bit of a crush on.And instead she's not only a Shield agent,
she's ad agent to protect him.And then in the next Civil War
movie and in the next Captain Americanmovie, you find out she's the woman
(26:00):
that he's in love with, niece. I mean that nothing can be trusted.
And that's what makes this movie sopowerful. And and of course you've
got all the fight scenes and thebetter some of the best cinematography in the
in the MCU. All of thosethings combined together with you know, Robert
Redford is one of the chief badguys in it, and everything else.
(26:23):
It just it makes it perfect,you know, there's a few few good
themes in this movie that are ontouch on first being kind of loyalty and
trust. I mean, there's there'sobviously there's the loyalty between Steve and Bucky
that Steve never lets go of andit's what ultimately wins the day in the
end. And then of course theidea of trust who he can and can't
(26:45):
trust. I mean he partly eventrusts Natasha for most of the movie.
You know, So, Nate,what are your what are your thoughts on
that side of things? Yeah,it's it's interesting because it follows more into
that that kind of political side thatCaptain America has always touched on. The
entire trilogy touched on it a lot, and it's more about the trust of
(27:11):
institutions, like the trust of Shieldand the fact that you know, we
we came to no Shield for alot of the MCU. I mean that's
introduced in IROs, even the firstone. Yeah, there's a show and
everything, and then we find outthat Shield for like pretty much the entire
time has been Hydra, which iscrazy, and I mean for us to
trust Shield, that's that's crazy forus. But then to think about it
(27:33):
from Captain America's point of view ofbeing at the creation pretty much of Shield
and then coming back seven years laterto find out that the people he was
fighting against, sacrificed his life against, were actually taking over and we're the
bad guys the entire time. It'san interesting way to look at it for
Steve and for him to conquer thatand just the entire concept of that trust
(27:57):
of institutions well so, and Ithink it's important that what we find in
Steve is he does find his hisfoundation in that moment where he realizes you
don't trust institutions. You trust whatis truly right and what is truly wrong,
(28:18):
and you trust people, you trustindividuals right. And we see that
specifically with with Bucky. He knowswho Bucky really is, and he's going
to continue to remain loyal to Buckyand trust who Bucky truly is in his
core versus all the other things.Yeah. Another concept is this idea of
(28:42):
identity and memory. You know youmentioned Bucky and that Steve he knows who
Bucky is, and he knows thatBucky is is lost and lost this concept
because he knows Bucky would never dothe things that he does in that movie.
So he's Steve is convinced that hecan help Bucky remember who he was.
Then he's, you know, likeyou mentioned, he's doing the right
(29:06):
thing, you know, Dad,Can you expand a little bit more on
that idea? Yeah, I thinkthat that you know, we talked about
this a few weeks ago on ouridea of inside out too, right,
and so so in Inside Out Too, they've got this this concept you go
(29:26):
from inside out which is core memoryright to inside out too. It's kind
of like, what is it senseof it self? Sense of self?
Right, and and you know inthis movie it's it's following the same sort
of secular approach towards that idea ofyou know, there's our dog is freaking
(29:49):
in the room here with us.But anyway, it's it's this idea that
that well, who you truly areand your core is the most important thing.
I think that what we have onthis is is, you know,
a Bucky is at his core thegood guy, and Steve trusts in who
(30:11):
That is what we talked about andwith the war together, he knows who
Bucky and you even seen like FalclinWarne Soldier after Bucky's reformed that he himself
doesn't even believe that he's he's changed, that he's still that good person.
He struggles with that. Yeah.And another another concept that is very,
(30:33):
very prevalent, and I find thisone especially interesting in this movie is this
idea of freedom versus security. It'sthat moment when you know, it's between
Nick and Nick Fiery and Rogers whenthey're going down the elevator and they're talking
about the new Hellicares. I don'tremember they have a specific name or whatever,
(30:53):
but just Project Insight. Yeah.Project Insight basically that like you know,
it can take out a thousand hostilesa minute or something from almost anywhere
on the planet, right, constantlysurveilling the entire planet, so that way
they can always take out a threatbefore they show their their really ugly head.
Right. And then Steve has thisone line where he's like, so,
(31:15):
you know, we're giving everybody freedomby pointing a gun at their head
or and calling it freedom or whatever. He's like, it's not freedom.
It what's he called it? That'snot freedom. That's I can't remember specifically,
but yeah, it's almost like it'sa prison or something like that.
Yes, yes, and you knowhe would he would know because it's what
Hydra basically wanted to do, right, Nate, what what is your thought
(31:42):
on this whole freedom versus security?You know, there's if we want to
go there, there's even talks aboutthat in today's climate. I mean all
the time, all the time.You know, people sacrifice their security or
their freedom for more comfort and security, and that may not, you know,
depending on your thought process, maynot always be the right thing.
(32:04):
So what are your thoughts on howthis this movie handles right on? This
movie handles, How Steve handles itis kind of like this this Good Boy
as as showing how he believes inin true true freedom, you're a rebel
now, not security, the freedomto make choices for themselves, and that's
not something so America right. So, and he's seeing how that's not not
(32:30):
what he's been fighting for, that'snot what he fought for, that's not
what he continues to fight for.That's just not how he believes it should
go down. So it's really interestingto see how Steve handles that all of
those topics in this movie, especiallywith Nick Fury, because it doesn't even
seem like Nick Fury's completely bought into the side of it. He wants,
(32:50):
he wants to do the right thing. Nick Fury does, but he
understands that he's going at it away that feels a bit extreme, but
he feels like it's what the worldneeds at that mom right, because it's
so far gone. I mean,this is after Avengers and stuff, so
these handle things. Yeah, well, Doctor Strange and Winter Soldier are fantastic
movies. There's no doubt about that. Everybody knows that the best movie in
(33:17):
the franchise, uh is my favoritemovie and and we'll, you know,
we'll talk about that here in aminute. The best MCU film and my
favorite, of course is Avengers.Endgame. Kind of a cop out answer.
(33:40):
I feel like I feel like alot of people say that, but
it was I have, you know, I have good reason to say that.
I feel like, So, whydo you love Endgames so much?
Sow Well, I mean, yeah, there's there's all of the the big
things that everybody's gonna say. It'sthe culmination of however many years of a
Marvel that have been what like thirteenyears at that point, of Marvel movies
(34:02):
that led up to that moment.It had all the cameos and characters coming
in there with that one moment.I mean, there's so many moments in
the movie that if you weren't therein the theater to experience it, you
just don't know how exciting it was. You know, the portals, moment,
cap getting Molnar, all those allthose yeah, interest I mean all
those moments, right, But thenthere's the the moments with Tony, the
(34:30):
overall arc with Tony, right,and and like Nate you mentioned how Doctor
Strange has the best single story,single movie character arc, Tony has the
best character arc in the MCU moviesbecause if you think about it, up
(34:50):
until Endgame, it's all kind ofTony's story. I mean, the other
characters are certainly, they're very prevalenthave their own story to tell an impact
on it, But it starts withit ends with Tony, right, and
like you know, with any goodstory, the end this is the culmination
of it all. So I thinkthat's that's why I really like it so
much. Now, like with allthe other ones, what's your letterbox rating?
(35:15):
Dad? You go first? Sam? Are you gonna just go five
out of five? And the likeoh yeah, yeah, no question about
it for sure. Uh. EndgameRoger Roger, I'll give it a four
point five and the like, Okay, yeah, I think it's it's phenomenal.
It's so much. One of thethings about this movie is it makes
(35:36):
Infinity War better. We weren't reallyimpressed with Infinity War when that came out.
It was utterly predictable the way thatthat movie ended and and everything else.
So but when we watched these togetherthat weekend that we were, you
know, that precipitated us having thisepisode in the first place. We watched
those back to back, and it'sa lot of movie to watch back to
(35:57):
back a lot, but it's definitelyone phenomenal story when you watch it all
the way through, and so endgameis is a great culmination of the Infinity
Taka. Yeah, and I can'tforget being in the theater opening night when
that Captain America says Avengers as symboland the whole place loses its mind.
Yeah, it was great, andI think it gets a five and a
like for me, I really enjoyit, or that just comes from the
(36:21):
feeling that when I get watching itmore than nostalgia than anything. The movie
itself is great. It has itsown convoluted it is a complicated MOVIEHT into
that, and it feels a littlemessy at some points, but I just
I enjoy it every time, andit is a great movie, and the
(36:42):
ending is fantastic, and I thinkit's just it's really well done. I
enjoy my time watching it so Andthere are a few movies, very few
movies that can consistently get me totear up, and this is one of
them, this one and Return ofthe King, Return of the King Onward.
Even though I've maybe I've watched someonein a long time and then even
up up at points that one's prettythat's pretty tough. But this one,
(37:06):
especially because it's it's the funerals,very difficult and major pain. No,
I can't say I care cry thatwill come. But endgame, you know,
it's it's a lot more than justthe culmination of kind of an unprecedented
movie making initiative. It's the endof, like I said, the story
arc for Tony, and it beganall the way back with that first MCU
(37:29):
film Iron Man. Now, whydo you, Nate feel that the film
is successful in balancing this epic thirteenyear long However, many Movie twenty three
movie saga with such a personal story. How do you think this movie does
(37:49):
builting that it does well balancing itbecause we've had such a connection with most
of these characters already. It it'swhy that we're kind of struggling to find
that in the MCU currently, becauseI feel like they're trying to do movies
that are close to as big asthis one with new characters, and it
just like, like Eternals, youintroduced ten new characters and you made it
(38:13):
a huge, like galaxy ending event, and I didn't really care for anything,
and then we don't hear anything elseabout bismo or whatever until Tim,
Yeah, that's it. So it'sjust really impactful because we've had so long
to spending with these characters, becausewe've watched them and rewatched them and been
(38:37):
able to digest it for a longtime, so we're able to really handle
that better. You know. I'vebeen looking out for this concept more when
watching movies now that we've kind ofdiscussed it a bit, and this movie
holds up with it the same.It holds up to that argument. It's
that the movie focuses on the charactersand the settings and action and all of
(39:04):
that come second. Yeah, walkthrough how that does it in this movie?
Well, I mean, because Ithink I understand where you're coming from,
but I will the whole Even thebeginning of the movie right starts with
they're trying to figure out what todo because it's their conviction, right,
you know, Cap, despite havinglost this battle and half the universe is
(39:25):
gone, is still committed to doingthe right thing. Right. Tony is
frustrated because he feels betrayed because hewas friends with Steve, and Steve said
that he would be there and thenhe wasn't right. You know, It's
all these very personal character driven momentsand then five years later, whoa Like,
(39:45):
we didn't see that coming, andwe still let it set for a
while where it lets the You seeCap at the support group, you see
now, yeah, we've got Natdoing this, you know, Avengers sort
of boardroom meeting monthly zoo. Butthen as soon as she hangs up the
call, she breaks down in tears. Right, I mean, it's it's
(40:07):
a character story the whole way through. Tony is raising a family now and
he can't get involved because he's foundsomething special to him and he could jeopardize
that. Right. Even the openingof the film centers well, no where
was the opening of the film thatpeople seem to always forget the opening of
(40:28):
a film losing his family. Yeah, and losing his family, and that
sets up his entire character for thismovie and a very good kind of contrast
between him and Tony, Tony gaininga family through this and Clinton losing his
and yeah, man name killing hitsthat. So it's really well done,
(40:52):
and a lot of people do forgeoh on. I never I had never
as many times as we watched thismovie, I had never paralleled those stories
where Hawkeye's story begins losing his familyTony. Then it cuts to Tony and
Tony gets back to his family,and his story is central too. He's
wanting to keep his family. Hawkeye'sstory is him wanting to get his family
(41:15):
back, right, Yeah, justand that's the conflict in this movie.
You spend a good was it hourand a half at least of this movie
with nothing action wise happening, right, I mean they don't go back in
time till they half right, Well, that's not even really an action point.
I mean the whole movie is justsetting up these character arcs and where
(41:38):
these characters and then you see whathappens with Thor where he loses you know,
he he kind of loses his way, right, and then he finds
his mom and you know, hashis character moment and stuff. Of course
Hawkeye and Clinton Natasha, right,every character has a development through this movie,
a character development, and I thinkthat's what makes it work so well.
(41:59):
But of course, like with allfilms, this one has some major
themes and the first one we've talkedabout that you especially brought it up Nate
with the Hawkeye, and that's thisidea of grief and loss. I mean,
even like with Cap the first actof this film powerfully deals with the
loss, showing superheroes facing a defeatand lost matter comprehension. Right. We
(42:22):
don't see that in movies very often, especially superhero movies. Usually they get
to this moment where things could gowrong and then the last moment, the
heroes find a way to save theday. And it didn't happen in Infinity
War, which again it didn't happenat the opening of this movie, which
it makes you feel like it's goingto right. Yeah, they're gonna get
the stones and bring it all back. But of course, you know,
(42:43):
this is a three hour movie andthey're not going to solve it all in
fifteen minutes, right, right,But you know, the whole beginning of
this film talks about that, andI think that's partially why the whole five
years moment was so jarring in thefilm, because not only are you you're
expecting them to make it all okaythere in the beginning with the stones,
(43:04):
but then you're like, oh,cir, surely it won't be that long
till they fix it. No,that's five years. That's a good chunk
of time for half the universe tobe gone. I mean, that's like
we kind of see, that's enoughtime for everybody to sort of find a
new normal with things, right,everybody's kind of like, all right,
this is the way things are.I mean, not to get really real
(43:25):
world and personal, You're not personal, but like COVID, I mean,
that was what a year, twoyears, and we were already people as
society was already kind of getting usedto that that new normal. Imagine what
five years of this, five yearsof that would have done. Right,
So anyway, I'm kind of goneto a tangent there. But Nate,
(43:52):
you you brought up the Hawkeye thing, so why don't you touch on this
idea of grief and loss in thismovie. It's very impactful. You see
Natasha as well have to deal withit, somebody that's kind of always been
denied, a family that finally foundsone, found one, and then it's
(44:14):
just kind of ripped away from herin a lot of ways. But it
just feels like she another kind oflike this was bound to happen, is
how she feels about it. Andso you see grief and you see loss
dealt with in many ways. Yousee it with Natasha and just kind of
an acceptance. You see it withSteve trying to just stay himself and move
(44:37):
on. You see it with Clintonkind of a denial. You see it
with Tony and just finding growth init, using it to grow. And
it's just you see all of youknow, you talk about Hawkeye though Clint.
Clint's response to his grief and hisloss is I'm going to punish the
entire planet. Yeah, I punisheveryone who didn't get there. Just yeah,
(45:00):
anyone that deserves to die is goingto die in his eyes, deserves
to die. Yeah, It's it'sit's an and and you know we talked
about I mentioned thor a minute ago, but thor Is is he still doesn't
know how to process any of this, and so he he resorts to booze
and video games, which, let'sjust be honest, that's not an unusual
(45:25):
release escape for a lot of people. I think, you know, this
is the case in the Doctor's Changemovie Night, which kind of makes the
moment in in this movie mean evenmore. But the the idea of sacrifice
and redemption is very, very prominentin this in this movie, I mean,
(45:47):
there is that that moment when thereThanos has the Stones, Captain Marvel
was almost about to stop him,but she was even taken out. All
hope seems lost. Tony looks overto Strange, Strange holds up his finger
denoting that this is the one realitywhere they expe full circle, right,
(46:07):
because the whole ending of our episodestarts with Strange and Tony, right,
And so Tony immediately realizes what heneeds to do. So he goes up,
you know, takes the Stones,sacrifices himself to finally bring an end
to Thanos and his forces. Butyou know, Tony's arc throughout the entire
Infinity Saga was one where his failuresled to continued devastation right, His death
(46:34):
in the end was both sacrificed tosave trillions and a final redemption for himself.
You know, Tony is inherently avery selfish person, very selfish character.
I mean even when he has thebest of intentions their self right,
I mean, even with him wantingto protect his family, there's nothing wrong
(46:55):
with that, but it's still forhim. You know, in the end
he realizes what he has to do. It's kind of a beautiful moment when
he says I am iron Man inthe first movie, it's a selfish cocky
either and then in this final momenthe realizes what iron Man is. It's
(47:16):
not for him, it's for theworld, right, It's this this symbol
for the world. So it isa beautiful, full, full circle moment
for his character, going back tojust even the simple sacrifice that Ninsen gave
to save Tony in the cave.Right. I thought about that, you
(47:36):
know, it is it that wasthe moment, the turning point for Tony.
I think where he realized that maybethere's more to just being a selfish
guy. But what are your thoughtson all of that? Yeah, I
think it's a it's a beautiful Ithink it's it's an unbelievable story to think
that a character like Tony Stark abeast, a B level comic book character,
(47:58):
right, he wasn't goofy and alot of things too. He was.
The reason that Marvel had the opportunityto make this movie was because nobody
had the rights. Is cheap.Nobody had the rights yea. Nobody wanted
the rights to this character. Sothey made this movie as a result of
a character nobody cared about, right, and turned it into one of the
(48:20):
most beloved characters in cinematic history.With Tony and Iron Man. My question
for you to kind of before weclose things out, Nay or Sam,
is you're the like, this isyour guy, right, right, Tony
Stark, Right, what do youdo? You want them to bring him
back in some form in the futurein the MCU same thing. I always
do talk my way out of it, Yep, I do, but I
(48:45):
want them to do it in acertain way. I'm thinking secret Wars something
like that. Don't bring back ourTony. I don't want to see our
Tony again. He had his story, he was great. We don't need
anymore that. I want to seean alternate Tony an alternate, alternate universe
(49:06):
Tony where maybe maybe he didn't sacrificehimself like a Tom Cruise version. No,
we were trying to do with strengthand multiverse. No, still Artie
J, because he is Tony Stark. But I mean I want to see
a Tony that's that's jaded and cynicaland broken. I want to see maybe
even a Tony where he didn't sacrificehimself at the end of that battle and
(49:29):
maybe Steve had to or maybe theynever won at all, kind of seeming
like what they they're gonna do withLogan and Deadpool and Wolverine. Right,
I want to see a cynical,jaded Tony that's maybe even a bit for
lack of a better term, darkside with things, to see what Tony
could have been to make what Tonyis in our story even more impactful.
(49:53):
I would love to see that.I mean, Ardie J. He's even
gone on record now that he's gothis oscar, probably that he would love
to return to the character, andI would love to see it. All
Right, that's gonna just about doit a bit long on this episode,
but a lot of a lot ofgood discussions. Yeah, now you know
it you're listening to this and you'relike that, that's great. That was
(50:15):
fifty minutes. I didn't think itwas fifty minutes. But yeah. Our
weekly release schedule. Mondays are whatwe're excited about. We were excited about
watching uh some Marvel movies. Wewant to talk about them. Great.
Wednesday's New Comic Book Day. ThisWednesday, we're gonna be talking about what
you should know from the comics.This is the clue we need about Captain
America Brave New World. I'm veryinterested. And then Friday is our monthly
(50:37):
series. This month we are reexamining the sequels and this week I have
an idea last one. We're lookingat the Rise of Skywalker. Probably gonna
have some very interesting discussions in thatone. I have a feeling. Make
sure you follow us on Substack.Like we mentioned, we're trying to get
to one hundred subscribers. Free subscribers. All right, let's get to work
so that way we can have aSubstack exclusive podcast that will be headed up
(51:01):
by uh, the wonderful bow TideJedi Guy I think been called the Jedi
or bow Tie Bible Guy. Ifyou want to get really like the top
Worlds the podcast Old One. Yeah, but you know, along with that
you still get weekly recaps, indepth explorations to some more of the themes
(51:24):
we usually like to talk about,and then of course more community engagement.
But I think that's gonna just aboutdo it. Is there anything else you
want to say? May the Forcebe with you, with you all wait,
this party is over. I likethat. Get take with me
This is Tattooed Suns a pop culturepodcast, the only fan podcast to name
a Cannon Star Wars creature and tobe endorsed by the writer director of The
Last Jedi Don't Get Cocky, RyanJohnson on the what's the New One?
What's the new Knives Out? Movies? Coming out with soon? What was
it calling you Don't Speak? ThatWake Up dead Man? That one?
Yeah, and that movie I'm interestedanyway. On the fourth of July weekend,
(00:24):
we started watching MCU movies and couldn'tstop. It was a blast revisiting
some of the greatest moments in Marvelmovie history. And it's because we were
on the Captain America, right,We were doing Captain America tho. But
that kind of touches a little bitof everything for those first pretty much three
or four phases. So yeah,you know, we got a little bit
of taste everything. But so thisweek we're going to each share our favorite
(00:46):
MCU film and why we love itso much. This is Tattooed Soun's true
was the name of the Pork andthe Millennium Falcon Force, the storm in
my family? What do you thinkhis name is? That's a big moment
(01:11):
I am a Jedi like my fatherbefore me. Maybe Turbis do ill do
not? At least no trib TurbisPablo. If you're listening to this live
(01:32):
stream, bat Pork's name is nowTurbus. It's a good Star Wars name.
We're not done yet. These guysrecorded Blosso podcast after so everybody was
(01:53):
which MCU movie? So you guysare getting ready to go in September,
right September sixth to go see?Tell tell me what this is made.
It's Hans Zimmer live. It's hisSo why is this such a big deal.
Well, it's the first time he'shad a US concert in over seven
years, I think. So Ilove that it's been quite a lot.
What is it like? I mean, what's like the allure of a Hans
(02:15):
Zimmer concert kind of like a rockshow? Then I live the Petrol concert
just does a compilation of all thisstuff and makes has done an No,
he is not okay. Now,you guys are big movie film score super
nerds, like across the Board,that's what you guys listen to. Like.
(02:37):
We've even joked about doing a podcastseries called the Movie Makes the Music,
and the Music makes the Movie.Right, which I'll start with you.
I'll start with you, Sam,Which MCU film has the best score?
I never asked that question till afterI've done it. This is the
right answer. Yeah, I meanI can only there's only one that really
stands out, and it's it's arksStrange. Really Yeah, I knew Nathan
(03:01):
was good. The key, rightanswer it is, I say it right
like this, All right, there'sthere's really no other mcu score that feels
as fleshed out as that one.And and well got the harpsichord. It's
the entire movie. Yeah, yeah, the entire movie gets varied, and
it follows the arc of of StephenStrange throughout the entire thing. It goes
(03:23):
from more of a piano to theharpsichord as the theme goes on. It's
it's really good. It's a reallygreat score. It's consistently good across the
board. And there's lots of movieshave great themes, but like the whole
score isn't as good exactly as theStrange one. Yeah, but welcome to
Tap to Me, Sons of popCulture podcast. We believe that pop culture
(03:43):
is the mythology of this generation.Lots of that in Marvel and that there's
a story written on our souls,and that these myths speak to that story.
And that's why we're looking back atour favorite Marvel movies and discussing what
we love about them. Don't forgetto subscribe to stubs stub like Stack.
Yeah, Substack. We're doing somethinga little, a little special we're pushing
(04:05):
for for some subscribers. All that, Dad, bring this one in a
mission for you. I think thedogs coming in join us. Rex are
dog named after Captain Rex. I'lltell mebody Moms named after Rex from toy
story Everyone in Wrong actually named afterCaptain Rex from Star Wars. Captain Rex.
We named the first dog we nameda Star Wars character off of our
(04:26):
second dog we named after Star Warscharacters, so you know, we had
to balance her anyway. So we'retrying to get to a hundred and subscribers.
We need we need your help beingone hundred one of our hundred subscribers.
But once we do that, weare going to release a sub stack
exclusive special podcast series called The ChristianMyth where we are going to be looking
(04:53):
at you know, we talk aboutit the opening of every episode. Right,
there's a story written on our souls. These myths speak to that story
that is is literally ripped out ofEcclesiastes. I think I'm remembering the verse
number right now, Ecclesiastes four toeleven that says that eternity or heaven is
written on our hearts. And sowe're going to walk through the Christian myth.
(05:16):
And when I say myth, I'mnot talking about like myth is in
being not true. I'm talking aboutmyth as being the classic philosophical idea of
a myth that's a massive epic story. C. S. Lewis came to
faith as a result. He wasan atheist that came to faith in Christ
and became one of the greatest Christiantheologians and apologists of our time as a
(05:42):
result of the myth of Christianity andunderstanding it and talking about as part of
the inklands. So we're going tolook at what is the Christian myth,
whether or not you believe that thatmyth is true or not. I think
that you're going to find the story, the myth of of what the Christian
story is, even if fascinating whenyou hear it that way. The problem
(06:04):
with most people's opinion about Christianity isthat it is not told mythically. It
is told dogmatically, and I thinkthat's why we have so many problems.
Dogmatically, it's about rules and regulationsand dues and don't and there are things
(06:25):
within our faith that are part ofthat. But the reality is we miss
the big wonder of the story whenwe miss the mythic element of it,
and so we When we get toone hundred subscribers, I will begin releasing
a series. I've already been begunplanning it. I've already got the first
episode scripted. We're going to releasea series of episodes exclusively for those of
(06:49):
you subscribing on Substack on the Christianmyth and I think that you're gonna be
I think you're gonna love it.I think you're gonna be fascinated about it.
All right, Well enough talking aboutwhat we're going to talk about.
Let's talk about what we're talking about. So let's start with with you,
Nate. Two talks first, Youfirst, I talk first. You know,
(07:10):
you kind of teased it a littlebit with your favorite score, but
your favorite movie, MCO movie,excuse me, is what is your favorite?
It's inception isn't it? Yes?If you know, like I think
yesterday was the birthday of Exception.Really it was the inception of Exception,
the inception. No, because theinception happened when he thought about it,
which was like or did he cameout or was it somebody did they plant
(07:31):
the brain? I mean we couldanyway. Your favorite movie is Inception,
but your favorite MCO movie is DoctorStrange. Yeah, for sure. So
why do you love this film?Something like? I know you could probably
talk about it for an entire thirtyminutes, but boil it down, you
know it? If you could,you know, twitter it ninety seconds?
(07:54):
Yeah, twitter it? Why doyou love this film? I don't even
think any ninety seconds. I thinkI can firmly say that it has the
greatest single movie character arc in theMCU, most impress There's just no doubt
about it. He goes through oneof the greatest arcs in an hour and
fifty minutes and it's just seamless.It's perfect. So you're saying that he
(08:16):
doesn't necessarily have the best character arcin the MCU. You're just saying that
this film has the best character arccontained to No, it's hard to compete
with Loki and iron Man and allthat as in character arcs, but they
contained in a single film. Yeah, this beats any of them. So
interesting. Let's go, let's doa little roundtable. We always, you
(08:37):
know, when we talk about moviesand stuff, we like to give our
little letterbox rating, which, ifyou're not familiar with what that is,
it's an app where you can logthe movies you watch and give them a
rating. You can see whatever youfollow Sam and Nat on there. I
think it's a like Sam Jesse andNathan Jesse if you want to Nate Jess
call. So it's just a funway to you know, rate what you're
what you're watching. And the waythe system works is it's five stars,
(09:00):
can give him halves and then there'salso a like or not like function on
it. So we kind of haveadopted that system when we talk about movies.
So what would you rate Doctor Strangeon letterboxed that I want to I
want you to go. I'm goingto go first. Yeah, I want
you to go first. Okay,I'm just gonna be transparent. I didn't
(09:20):
I mean it was it was afine movie. The first time I saw
it, I didn't really care forit the same way that Nathan did with
it. I've grown to appreciate itmore and more. But I haven't watched
it very many times. It's beena long time since you've seen it,
you know. But every time I'vewatched it, I've liked it more.
So I'll go I'll go four outof five stars and a like. I
mean, that's solid. That's prettyfor me, that's a pretty high rating.
(09:43):
That's pretty good. What about you, Sam? I would probably give
it four as well. I'm kindait's been a minute since I've seen it,
but I have the theme in myhead now the talked about it.
You know, I feel like i'dhave to I'd have to rate Multiverse Madness
higher. I just I just knowhe's kidding. Yeah, I'm doing that
(10:09):
to Tea because he was very disappointedwith Multiverse and Madness. But no,
but for real, this film,I would give it a four, and
I like, you know, I'mpretty much almost any MCU movie i'll get
a like. But it was ait was a really solid movie. It
was fun. You're right. Itdoes have a great character art for Stephen.
I love the magic. The visualeffects are great. They're the best
in the MCU to this day,for sure, what would you give it?
(10:33):
It's it's five and the like,I don't think that it can.
It doesn't make sense to rank itlower. It's a great arc and one
of these shorter MCU movies as well, which just shows the storytelling capabilities that
they've achieved with it. I likethe themes. I like the not like
musical themes, but kind of yeah, the overall themes of the movie.
(10:58):
Yeah, speaking of that, youknow, you know you mentioned themes,
and like one of the major mcguffinsof this film is the timestone, right,
and because of the prominence of that, Doctor Strange kind of centers on
the idea of time and things likethat. Right in that theme, you
(11:18):
know, how how does this movieaddress the concept of time? Let you
go, Nate, Yeah, thisis your this is your jam just a
quick you know. It approaches timeas a very it is a very serious
subject and a lot of them areconcerned about it, but Steven sees it
as more of a in certain ways, something to be appreciated, but something
(11:39):
that can be molded, a tool, a tool with the ibogamato and all
that, and and we see him, you know, use it at the
end against dorm Mamu and and kindof putting dorm Mamu in a prison,
prison of eternity until Stephen gets whathe wants and he leaves Earth. So
he does see it as a tool, but he also appreciates the power of
(12:01):
time, so and he doesn't abuseit. No, no, not at
all. Which you know you mentionedthat moment which is such a creative way
for the hero to defeat the villain. It's not a big CGI. I
mean you have that with you kindof had that kind of but it's shorter.
The battle is really with the mindgames of Dormamu, which and it
shows do we know what happened withdo not yet? Where he's still just
(12:24):
he'll do he'll probably show back upand the third Doctor Strange or something so
which he may be announcing it sanDiego. Yeah, it's this week.
Hopefully they get a good director back. But y'all you mentioned themes in Doctors
Strange, right, and one ofthose is reality and perception. You know,
(12:48):
what we what we see isn't alwaysnecessarily what is real. I think
what you know an interesting moment ofall that is when Doctor Strange first makes
it to the sanctums and homage orcommartage, that's it. And he's like,
it's just another building. There wasnothing special. She's like starts bringing
(13:09):
out acupuncture books and chi and stuff, and he's like, oh, so
this is a joke, right,And then there's that moment when he gets
like hurled through through time and stuffsdimensions and whatnot. You know, Dad
Nathan kind of had his you know, talked about time and things. But
what are your thoughts on this wholeconcept of you know, what you see
(13:31):
may not be what's really there.Yeah, I think it relates kind of
to time. When I think aboutthis, when I think about time,
I think about you know, wetalked about it even in the previous part
of the show when we were talkingabout the Christian myth. The idea is
we look at time linear. There'sa beginning, there's an end, and
then there's everything that happens in between. And as as what I like about
(13:54):
doctor Strange is is he's able tosee time as something that he that can
be perceived as being outside of timeand looking into time and perception is the
same way, right, So you'relooking at everything from from multiple dimensions,
multiple angles with it and I lovethe idea that time is not just kind
(14:20):
of like something that can be movedforward through and moved back through, but
it can be it changed around.I think that that we see that a
lot more in some of the currentstuff that's happened within post end game timeline
timelines and the multiverse. And that'swhy, you know, I mean,
as much as Multiverse and Madness wasas not as a satisfying of a film
(14:45):
as we had hoped it would havebeen, it's not as bad as you
but the reality is, you know, we see that more in that.
I think that that's where where itcomes with what you see isn't what it's
like what we saw last night withthe the Illusionist at the at the church
thing that we do where he waslike he was talking about you know time.
(15:07):
You know, the way we perceivethings is is is different with it
anyway, So I know I'm notmaking a lot of sense with it,
but yeah, you know, oneinteresting thing, and you know, up
until this point, I didn't noticethis sort of what's the word I'm looking
(15:28):
for concept of the character until literallyjust now. Is this conflict between science
and mysticism, right, and thatscience and faith or magic. Don't this
you know this other thing? Don'thave to always stand in conflict with each
other. And I don't know whyI never grasped the the interesting nature of
(15:48):
making a brain surgeon, doctor amagician, you know, I I someone
who's who's so in the science worldfact what you can observe and record is
what's real, and then putting himin this mindset of literally, you don't
(16:10):
know anything anymore. Everything's like crazyand magical, Right, Nate, what
are your thoughts on that have youhad? Did you pick up on that
that juxtaposition that they do with thecharacter I did? They They kind of
bring that into it a lot,and they even in the ancient one tells
him to forget everything he thinks heknows, like everything you have come to
(16:33):
learn, spent decades learning and beinga master of doesn't matter in this scenario.
And you might be a genius andthat might help you learn the books,
but you have to have an amountof faith to be able to believe
it. So that's when she,you know, strands him on the top
of Mount Everest with a slingering andsays, have that and leaves some stranded
(16:56):
there because she needed to show himto have a little bit of faith and
forget the technical side. It can'tbrain his way out of the house.
So you just had to believe thatthat portal was going to open, and
it eventually did, and that's theturning point for his character. It's believing
at that point. So it isa very important part of his character and
everything that's brought into it. Yeah, you know, we we've been touching
(17:19):
on this concept of time a goodbit. But one thing that you brought
up dat is that time isn't necessarilylinear, right. You know, there's
the moment when Dharmam moves in timeloop. They even he's even even reverse
his time a few points, right, But we instinctively, you know,
I think this points out the factthat we instinctively know that there's something that
(17:41):
exists beyond our understanding of time oroutside are our concept of time, right.
You know you we mentioned it likeat the beginning of every podcast.
It myself, No, you mentionyourself this concept of eternity, because eternity
is not in time that you know, that's just the concept or the definition
of it. Eternity is written onour hearts. We have this innate longing
(18:04):
to understand this idea of eternity oror or explore it. Dad, What
what are your thoughts on that kindof concept that's explored in this movie.
Yeah, I think that, youknow, I had some you know,
I've done a lot of teaching inour you know, in church settings with
(18:26):
you know, college aged students thatare naturally questioning, right, they're trying
to understand and they may not havegrown up in a church setting. And
I've had one question that I alwaysseem to have people ask me is about
the idea of the trinity. Andif you're not familiar with the trinity,
it's like, you know, there'sthis one God, but he's seen in
(18:48):
three different people, and how canyou be one but be three different and
all of this other stuff. Andfirst of all, you know that it's
it's God, right, and sowhen the second that we understand how God
works, second he ceases to beGod. So that's the first thing that
I do. But the way I'vetried to describe trinity is you have an
author and he's outside of the story, and he's writing the story, and
(19:11):
then he chooses to then he's soengaged in what's happening in his story that
he actually rights himself as a characterwithin that story, and so he's outside
looking into the story, writing thestory himself, but then he's also a
character within it. And so whenwe see it when I use that as
(19:32):
an illustration to say, you know, time, we see it moving as
in, we have our birth date, we have our death date, we
have everything in between. That's nothow the force works. And then and
it moves linearly and yet time exists. You know, That's what the what
quantum physics is all about. That'swhat the TVA and what multiverse of madness
and what you know, all ofthe things that are going on with Deadpool
(19:57):
and Wolverine that comes out this weekis literally about time doesn't work the way
that we think it works, andwe want to make it linear, and
it doesn't work that way. AndI think that's one of the things that
I love about Doctor Strange is heallows you to view things from a different
perspective. Right, Yeah, Well, because Nathan would probably plot pop a
(20:19):
blood vessel or something, we won'ttake a time there we go there to
discuss doctor Strange in the multiverse ofmanas at least in detail in detail,
right Yeah, Instead we'll shift toDad's favorite MCU film, Captain America The
Winter Soldier. Okay, Dad,we'll kind of format your your movie the
(20:47):
same way we talk we did withNates. Now we get to really get
started. Yours was the appetizer NatesDad short Twitter ex post why do you
love this film so much? I'mthe only one of us that's actually on
Twitter. I want to go homeand rethink of my life. It's sure
I can do this. Yes,this is this. This is the movie
(21:08):
where Steve Rodgers grows up. Thisis where he becomes. He moves away
even in Avengers. Avengers is whatstarts it right the original Avengers movie,
he starts to see he can't trustNick Fury, he can't trust what's happening
around him. This is the moviewhere he realizes that this Steve is getting
worse all the time. It's thatthe world and reality is not is going
(21:29):
to be as black and white ashe wants it to be. And it
makes him a better character. Andthat's what makes Steve Rogers so special because
of what we're going to see,what we see in I know I'm going
over one hundred and forty characters here, but what we see with Civil War
is a Steve is a Steve Rodgers. Yeah, I'm threading. Oh we're
blue, so I can. Ican go as long as I want.
(21:53):
This is that moment both in themovie that Sharon Carter Carter steals from him
in the movie Civil War, what'sfrom the comic book Civil War, where
he's like, even though he knowsthat the world is not black and white
anymore, that there is weirdness goingon, that you can't trust people.
There's a point where you have totake a line. You have to draw
a line in the sand and sayI'm going to stand for this and that.
(22:15):
And you don't make that part ofCaptain America Steve Rogers work without him
coming to terms with the reality thatthings aren't as black and white that we
see. Yes, in this Nickis lying to him even more absolutely in
Winter Soldier, I bet yeah.All right, letterboxed rating, We'll do
same thing, just real quick,dad, Why don't you go for I
(22:36):
we went first with you last time, Nate not a box ready to go
A four point five? Like forsure. I think it's a great movie.
It's solid, it's it's really welldone, and I really do enjoy
it. I really do. It'sSam, what is yours? Yeah,
I'm gonna give a four point five, And I like whenever I think of
an MCU movie that just like allAround and we'll watch regularly. It's this
one. Plus it's got the bestfight choreography and stuff in the m c
(23:00):
U. In my opinion, it'sphenomenal Born Again. Yes, if you're
including the Netflix show, I thinkthat it loses to the I don't know,
man, there's some good stuff.You don't know. The hallway scene.
True, all right, Dad?What's what's your rating? Love?
No doubt? Like whatever, it'sa It's definite, without a doubt,
(23:22):
the best of all of the' youropinion it is mine's the only opinion that
works now, Winter Soldier. Itcenters around Steve's you know, continue journey
into a more like you mentioned,Dad, cynical and guarded view of the
government. Right. You know,when he went in the ice, for
the most part, he could trustthe country and the government wakes up and
(23:45):
he's been nothing but lied to literallysince the moment he woke up. Now,
why is this critical to Steve's growthas a character, because it goes
into the you know, it's it'sthe world is very different in World War
two, you know, nineteen fortyfive, when he goes into the Ice,
(24:07):
it's very clear, it would seemto be, it's very clear who
the good guys are the bad guysare when you deal with World War Two
and you've got Nazis that are literallyexterminating six million Jews and try to take
over the world and Japanese that aretrying to do the same thing, you
know, and so you've got areally clear, black and white situation.
(24:30):
And then he wakes up and he'sa man out of time when he wakes
up in New York City and beforethe Avengers movie, and you know,
he comes into that movie Avengers withthe same type of mindset as he had
when he went into the Ice.And so what we see at the opening
(24:52):
to The Winter Soldier is he's tryingto figure out who he is, what
his place is in this new world, and what the world really is.
And that's what the whole situation withSam is. That's what where he's talking
about, you know, even evenmovies and music and stuff. He's like
everything has changed and he's got tofigure out he's he's watching these movies,
(25:15):
he's listening to this music. He'sdoing these things to try to understand the
world as it is today. Andthe reality is he doesn't understand it until
he realizes that Shield is hydra andhe can't trust Samuel L. Jackson.
He can't trust Sharon. Sharon isa is a is a microcosm ast an
actor. Okay, Nick Heart,Nick Fury, he can't trust he can't
(25:37):
trust Sharon. I mean, Sharonis a perfect like small metaphor for everything
he goes through. She's the nursethat lives next door that he's got a
little bit of a crush on.And instead she's not only a Shield agent,
she's ad agent to protect him.And then in the next Civil War
movie and in the next Captain Americanmovie, you find out she's the woman
(26:00):
that he's in love with, niece. I mean that nothing can be trusted.
And that's what makes this movie sopowerful. And and of course you've
got all the fight scenes and thebetter some of the best cinematography in the
in the MCU. All of thosethings combined together with you know, Robert
Redford is one of the chief badguys in it, and everything else.
(26:23):
It just it makes it perfect,you know, there's a few few good
themes in this movie that are ontouch on first being kind of loyalty and
trust. I mean, there's there'sobviously there's the loyalty between Steve and Bucky
that Steve never lets go of andit's what ultimately wins the day in the
end. And then of course theidea of trust who he can and can't
(26:45):
trust. I mean he partly eventrusts Natasha for most of the movie.
You know, So, Nate,what are your what are your thoughts on
that side of things? Yeah,it's it's interesting because it follows more into
that that kind of political side thatCaptain America has always touched on. The
entire trilogy touched on it a lot, and it's more about the trust of
(27:11):
institutions, like the trust of Shieldand the fact that you know, we
we came to no Shield for alot of the MCU. I mean that's
introduced in IROs, even the firstone. Yeah, there's a show and
everything, and then we find outthat Shield for like pretty much the entire
time has been Hydra, which iscrazy, and I mean for us to
trust Shield, that's that's crazy forus. But then to think about it
(27:33):
from Captain America's point of view ofbeing at the creation pretty much of Shield
and then coming back seven years laterto find out that the people he was
fighting against, sacrificed his life against, were actually taking over and we're the
bad guys the entire time. It'san interesting way to look at it for
Steve and for him to conquer thatand just the entire concept of that trust
(27:57):
of institutions well so, and Ithink it's important that what we find in
Steve is he does find his hisfoundation in that moment where he realizes you
don't trust institutions. You trust whatis truly right and what is truly wrong,
(28:18):
and you trust people, you trustindividuals right. And we see that
specifically with with Bucky. He knowswho Bucky really is, and he's going
to continue to remain loyal to Buckyand trust who Bucky truly is in his
core versus all the other things.Yeah. Another concept is this idea of
(28:42):
identity and memory. You know youmentioned Bucky and that Steve he knows who
Bucky is, and he knows thatBucky is is lost and lost this concept
because he knows Bucky would never dothe things that he does in that movie.
So he's Steve is convinced that hecan help Bucky remember who he was.
Then he's, you know, likeyou mentioned, he's doing the right
(29:06):
thing, you know, Dad,Can you expand a little bit more on
that idea? Yeah, I thinkthat that you know, we talked about
this a few weeks ago on ouridea of inside out too, right,
and so so in Inside Out Too, they've got this this concept you go
(29:26):
from inside out which is core memoryright to inside out too. It's kind
of like, what is it senseof it self? Sense of self?
Right, and and you know inthis movie it's it's following the same sort
of secular approach towards that idea ofyou know, there's our dog is freaking
(29:49):
in the room here with us.But anyway, it's it's this idea that
that well, who you truly areand your core is the most important thing.
I think that what we have onthis is is, you know,
a Bucky is at his core thegood guy, and Steve trusts in who
(30:11):
That is what we talked about andwith the war together, he knows who
Bucky and you even seen like FalclinWarne Soldier after Bucky's reformed that he himself
doesn't even believe that he's he's changed, that he's still that good person.
He struggles with that. Yeah.And another another concept that is very,
(30:33):
very prevalent, and I find thisone especially interesting in this movie is this
idea of freedom versus security. It'sthat moment when you know, it's between
Nick and Nick Fiery and Rogers whenthey're going down the elevator and they're talking
about the new Hellicares. I don'tremember they have a specific name or whatever,
(30:53):
but just Project Insight. Yeah.Project Insight basically that like you know,
it can take out a thousand hostilesa minute or something from almost anywhere
on the planet, right, constantlysurveilling the entire planet, so that way
they can always take out a threatbefore they show their their really ugly head.
Right. And then Steve has thisone line where he's like, so,
(31:15):
you know, we're giving everybody freedomby pointing a gun at their head
or and calling it freedom or whatever. He's like, it's not freedom.
It what's he called it? That'snot freedom. That's I can't remember specifically,
but yeah, it's almost like it'sa prison or something like that.
Yes, yes, and you knowhe would he would know because it's what
Hydra basically wanted to do, right, Nate, what what is your thought
(31:42):
on this whole freedom versus security?You know, there's if we want to
go there, there's even talks aboutthat in today's climate. I mean all
the time, all the time.You know, people sacrifice their security or
their freedom for more comfort and security, and that may not, you know,
depending on your thought process, maynot always be the right thing.
(32:04):
So what are your thoughts on howthis this movie handles right on? This
movie handles, How Steve handles itis kind of like this this Good Boy
as as showing how he believes inin true true freedom, you're a rebel
now, not security, the freedomto make choices for themselves, and that's
not something so America right. So, and he's seeing how that's not not
(32:30):
what he's been fighting for, that'snot what he fought for, that's not
what he continues to fight for.That's just not how he believes it should
go down. So it's really interestingto see how Steve handles that all of
those topics in this movie, especiallywith Nick Fury, because it doesn't even
seem like Nick Fury's completely bought into the side of it. He wants,
(32:50):
he wants to do the right thing. Nick Fury does, but he
understands that he's going at it away that feels a bit extreme, but
he feels like it's what the worldneeds at that mom right, because it's
so far gone. I mean,this is after Avengers and stuff, so
these handle things. Yeah, well, Doctor Strange and Winter Soldier are fantastic
movies. There's no doubt about that. Everybody knows that the best movie in
(33:17):
the franchise, uh is my favoritemovie and and we'll, you know,
we'll talk about that here in aminute. The best MCU film and my
favorite, of course is Avengers.Endgame. Kind of a cop out answer.
(33:40):
I feel like I feel like alot of people say that, but
it was I have, you know, I have good reason to say that.
I feel like, So, whydo you love Endgames so much?
Sow Well, I mean, yeah, there's there's all of the the big
things that everybody's gonna say. It'sthe culmination of however many years of a
Marvel that have been what like thirteenyears at that point, of Marvel movies
(34:02):
that led up to that moment.It had all the cameos and characters coming
in there with that one moment.I mean, there's so many moments in
the movie that if you weren't therein the theater to experience it, you
just don't know how exciting it was. You know, the portals, moment,
cap getting Molnar, all those allthose yeah, interest I mean all
those moments, right, But thenthere's the the moments with Tony, the
(34:30):
overall arc with Tony, right,and and like Nate you mentioned how Doctor
Strange has the best single story,single movie character arc, Tony has the
best character arc in the MCU moviesbecause if you think about it, up
(34:50):
until Endgame, it's all kind ofTony's story. I mean, the other
characters are certainly, they're very prevalenthave their own story to tell an impact
on it, But it starts withit ends with Tony, right, and
like you know, with any goodstory, the end this is the culmination
of it all. So I thinkthat's that's why I really like it so
much. Now, like with allthe other ones, what's your letterbox rating?
(35:15):
Dad? You go first? Sam? Are you gonna just go five
out of five? And the likeoh yeah, yeah, no question about
it for sure. Uh. EndgameRoger Roger, I'll give it a four
point five and the like, Okay, yeah, I think it's it's phenomenal.
It's so much. One of thethings about this movie is it makes
(35:36):
Infinity War better. We weren't reallyimpressed with Infinity War when that came out.
It was utterly predictable the way thatthat movie ended and and everything else.
So but when we watched these togetherthat weekend that we were, you
know, that precipitated us having thisepisode in the first place. We watched
those back to back, and it'sa lot of movie to watch back to
(35:57):
back a lot, but it's definitelyone phenomenal story when you watch it all
the way through, and so endgameis is a great culmination of the Infinity
Taka. Yeah, and I can'tforget being in the theater opening night when
that Captain America says Avengers as symboland the whole place loses its mind.
Yeah, it was great, andI think it gets a five and a
like for me, I really enjoyit, or that just comes from the
(36:21):
feeling that when I get watching itmore than nostalgia than anything. The movie
itself is great. It has itsown convoluted it is a complicated MOVIEHT into
that, and it feels a littlemessy at some points, but I just
I enjoy it every time, andit is a great movie, and the
(36:42):
ending is fantastic, and I thinkit's just it's really well done. I
enjoy my time watching it so Andthere are a few movies, very few
movies that can consistently get me totear up, and this is one of
them, this one and Return ofthe King, Return of the King Onward.
Even though I've maybe I've watched someonein a long time and then even
up up at points that one's prettythat's pretty tough. But this one,
(37:06):
especially because it's it's the funerals,very difficult and major pain. No,
I can't say I care cry thatwill come. But endgame, you know,
it's it's a lot more than justthe culmination of kind of an unprecedented
movie making initiative. It's the endof, like I said, the story
arc for Tony, and it beganall the way back with that first MCU
(37:29):
film Iron Man. Now, whydo you, Nate feel that the film
is successful in balancing this epic thirteenyear long However, many Movie twenty three
movie saga with such a personal story. How do you think this movie does
(37:49):
builting that it does well balancing itbecause we've had such a connection with most
of these characters already. It it'swhy that we're kind of struggling to find
that in the MCU currently, becauseI feel like they're trying to do movies
that are close to as big asthis one with new characters, and it
just like, like Eternals, youintroduced ten new characters and you made it
(38:13):
a huge, like galaxy ending event, and I didn't really care for anything,
and then we don't hear anything elseabout bismo or whatever until Tim,
Yeah, that's it. So it'sjust really impactful because we've had so long
to spending with these characters, becausewe've watched them and rewatched them and been
(38:37):
able to digest it for a longtime, so we're able to really handle
that better. You know. I'vebeen looking out for this concept more when
watching movies now that we've kind ofdiscussed it a bit, and this movie
holds up with it the same.It holds up to that argument. It's
that the movie focuses on the charactersand the settings and action and all of
(39:04):
that come second. Yeah, walkthrough how that does it in this movie?
Well, I mean, because Ithink I understand where you're coming from,
but I will the whole Even thebeginning of the movie right starts with
they're trying to figure out what todo because it's their conviction, right,
you know, Cap, despite havinglost this battle and half the universe is
(39:25):
gone, is still committed to doingthe right thing. Right. Tony is
frustrated because he feels betrayed because hewas friends with Steve, and Steve said
that he would be there and thenhe wasn't right. You know, It's
all these very personal character driven momentsand then five years later, whoa Like,
(39:45):
we didn't see that coming, andwe still let it set for a
while where it lets the You seeCap at the support group, you see
now, yeah, we've got Natdoing this, you know, Avengers sort
of boardroom meeting monthly zoo. Butthen as soon as she hangs up the
call, she breaks down in tears. Right, I mean, it's it's
(40:07):
a character story the whole way through. Tony is raising a family now and
he can't get involved because he's foundsomething special to him and he could jeopardize
that. Right. Even the openingof the film centers well, no where
was the opening of the film thatpeople seem to always forget the opening of
(40:28):
a film losing his family. Yeah, and losing his family, and that
sets up his entire character for thismovie and a very good kind of contrast
between him and Tony, Tony gaininga family through this and Clinton losing his
and yeah, man name killing hitsthat. So it's really well done,
(40:52):
and a lot of people do forgeoh on. I never I had never
as many times as we watched thismovie, I had never paralleled those stories
where Hawkeye's story begins losing his familyTony. Then it cuts to Tony and
Tony gets back to his family,and his story is central too. He's
wanting to keep his family. Hawkeye'sstory is him wanting to get his family
(41:15):
back, right, Yeah, justand that's the conflict in this movie.
You spend a good was it hourand a half at least of this movie
with nothing action wise happening, right, I mean they don't go back in
time till they half right, Well, that's not even really an action point.
I mean the whole movie is justsetting up these character arcs and where
(41:38):
these characters and then you see whathappens with Thor where he loses you know,
he he kind of loses his way, right, and then he finds
his mom and you know, hashis character moment and stuff. Of course
Hawkeye and Clinton Natasha, right,every character has a development through this movie,
a character development, and I thinkthat's what makes it work so well.
(41:59):
But of course, like with allfilms, this one has some major
themes and the first one we've talkedabout that you especially brought it up Nate
with the Hawkeye, and that's thisidea of grief and loss. I mean,
even like with Cap the first actof this film powerfully deals with the
loss, showing superheroes facing a defeatand lost matter comprehension. Right. We
(42:22):
don't see that in movies very often, especially superhero movies. Usually they get
to this moment where things could gowrong and then the last moment, the
heroes find a way to save theday. And it didn't happen in Infinity
War, which again it didn't happenat the opening of this movie, which
it makes you feel like it's goingto right. Yeah, they're gonna get
the stones and bring it all back. But of course, you know,
(42:43):
this is a three hour movie andthey're not going to solve it all in
fifteen minutes, right, right,But you know, the whole beginning of
this film talks about that, andI think that's partially why the whole five
years moment was so jarring in thefilm, because not only are you you're
expecting them to make it all okaythere in the beginning with the stones,
(43:04):
but then you're like, oh,cir, surely it won't be that long
till they fix it. No,that's five years. That's a good chunk
of time for half the universe tobe gone. I mean, that's like
we kind of see, that's enoughtime for everybody to sort of find a
new normal with things, right,everybody's kind of like, all right,
this is the way things are.I mean, not to get really real
(43:25):
world and personal, You're not personal, but like COVID, I mean,
that was what a year, twoyears, and we were already people as
society was already kind of getting usedto that that new normal. Imagine what
five years of this, five yearsof that would have done. Right,
So anyway, I'm kind of goneto a tangent there. But Nate,
(43:52):
you you brought up the Hawkeye thing, so why don't you touch on this
idea of grief and loss in thismovie. It's very impactful. You see
Natasha as well have to deal withit, somebody that's kind of always been
denied, a family that finally foundsone, found one, and then it's
(44:14):
just kind of ripped away from herin a lot of ways. But it
just feels like she another kind oflike this was bound to happen, is
how she feels about it. Andso you see grief and you see loss
dealt with in many ways. Yousee it with Natasha and just kind of
an acceptance. You see it withSteve trying to just stay himself and move
(44:37):
on. You see it with Clintonkind of a denial. You see it
with Tony and just finding growth init, using it to grow. And
it's just you see all of youknow, you talk about Hawkeye though Clint.
Clint's response to his grief and hisloss is I'm going to punish the
entire planet. Yeah, I punisheveryone who didn't get there. Just yeah,
(45:00):
anyone that deserves to die is goingto die in his eyes, deserves
to die. Yeah, It's it'sit's an and and you know we talked
about I mentioned thor a minute ago, but thor Is is he still doesn't
know how to process any of this, and so he he resorts to booze
and video games, which, let'sjust be honest, that's not an unusual
(45:25):
release escape for a lot of people. I think, you know, this
is the case in the Doctor's Changemovie Night, which kind of makes the
moment in in this movie mean evenmore. But the the idea of sacrifice
and redemption is very, very prominentin this in this movie, I mean,
(45:47):
there is that that moment when thereThanos has the Stones, Captain Marvel
was almost about to stop him,but she was even taken out. All
hope seems lost. Tony looks overto Strange, Strange holds up his finger
denoting that this is the one realitywhere they expe full circle, right,
(46:07):
because the whole ending of our episodestarts with Strange and Tony, right,
And so Tony immediately realizes what heneeds to do. So he goes up,
you know, takes the Stones,sacrifices himself to finally bring an end
to Thanos and his forces. Butyou know, Tony's arc throughout the entire
Infinity Saga was one where his failuresled to continued devastation right, His death
(46:34):
in the end was both sacrificed tosave trillions and a final redemption for himself.
You know, Tony is inherently avery selfish person, very selfish character.
I mean even when he has thebest of intentions their self right,
I mean, even with him wantingto protect his family, there's nothing wrong
(46:55):
with that, but it's still forhim. You know, in the end
he realizes what he has to do. It's kind of a beautiful moment when
he says I am iron Man inthe first movie, it's a selfish cocky
either and then in this final momenthe realizes what iron Man is. It's
(47:16):
not for him, it's for theworld, right, It's this this symbol
for the world. So it isa beautiful, full, full circle moment
for his character, going back tojust even the simple sacrifice that Ninsen gave
to save Tony in the cave.Right. I thought about that, you
(47:36):
know, it is it that wasthe moment, the turning point for Tony.
I think where he realized that maybethere's more to just being a selfish
guy. But what are your thoughtson all of that? Yeah, I
think it's a it's a beautiful Ithink it's it's an unbelievable story to think
that a character like Tony Stark abeast, a B level comic book character,
(47:58):
right, he wasn't goofy and alot of things too. He was.
The reason that Marvel had the opportunityto make this movie was because nobody
had the rights. Is cheap.Nobody had the rights yea. Nobody wanted
the rights to this character. Sothey made this movie as a result of
a character nobody cared about, right, and turned it into one of the
(48:20):
most beloved characters in cinematic history.With Tony and Iron Man. My question
for you to kind of before weclose things out, Nay or Sam,
is you're the like, this isyour guy, right, right, Tony
Stark, Right, what do youdo? You want them to bring him
back in some form in the futurein the MCU same thing. I always
do talk my way out of it, Yep, I do, but I
(48:45):
want them to do it in acertain way. I'm thinking secret Wars something
like that. Don't bring back ourTony. I don't want to see our
Tony again. He had his story, he was great. We don't need
anymore that. I want to seean alternate Tony an alternate, alternate universe
(49:06):
Tony where maybe maybe he didn't sacrificehimself like a Tom Cruise version. No,
we were trying to do with strengthand multiverse. No, still Artie
J, because he is Tony Stark. But I mean I want to see
a Tony that's that's jaded and cynicaland broken. I want to see maybe
even a Tony where he didn't sacrificehimself at the end of that battle and
(49:29):
maybe Steve had to or maybe theynever won at all, kind of seeming
like what they they're gonna do withLogan and Deadpool and Wolverine. Right,
I want to see a cynical,jaded Tony that's maybe even a bit for
lack of a better term, darkside with things, to see what Tony
could have been to make what Tonyis in our story even more impactful.
(49:53):
I would love to see that.I mean, Ardie J. He's even
gone on record now that he's gothis oscar, probably that he would love
to return to the character, andI would love to see it. All
Right, that's gonna just about doit a bit long on this episode,
but a lot of a lot ofgood discussions. Yeah, now you know
it you're listening to this and you'relike that, that's great. That was
(50:15):
fifty minutes. I didn't think itwas fifty minutes. But yeah. Our
weekly release schedule. Mondays are whatwe're excited about. We were excited about
watching uh some Marvel movies. Wewant to talk about them. Great.
Wednesday's New Comic Book Day. ThisWednesday, we're gonna be talking about what
you should know from the comics.This is the clue we need about Captain
America Brave New World. I'm veryinterested. And then Friday is our monthly
(50:37):
series. This month we are reexamining the sequels and this week I have
an idea last one. We're lookingat the Rise of Skywalker. Probably gonna
have some very interesting discussions in thatone. I have a feeling. Make
sure you follow us on Substack.Like we mentioned, we're trying to get
to one hundred subscribers. Free subscribers. All right, let's get to work
so that way we can have aSubstack exclusive podcast that will be headed up
(51:01):
by uh, the wonderful bow TideJedi Guy I think been called the Jedi
or bow Tie Bible Guy. Ifyou want to get really like the top
Worlds the podcast Old One. Yeah, but you know, along with that
you still get weekly recaps, indepth explorations to some more of the themes
(51:24):
we usually like to talk about,and then of course more community engagement.
But I think that's gonna just aboutdo it. Is there anything else you
want to say? May the Forcebe with you, with you all wait,
this party is over. I likethat. Get take with me
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