August 7, 2024 • 37 mins
Prepare for a seismic shift in the Marvel Cinematic Universe! At San Diego Comic Con, the shocking revelation came that Robert Downey Jr. is making a dramatic return to the MCU as the ultimate villain of the Multiverse Saga: Doctor Doom. If your only exposure to this formidable antagonist is through the lackluster portrayals in previous Fantastic Four movies, you're in for a treat. This episode of Tatooine Sons: A Pop Culture Podcast dives deep into Marvel's most diabolical despot, Doctor Victor Von Doom, and what RDJ's portrayal could mean for Avengers: Doomsday and beyond.
We'll kick things off by discussing the end of the Kang era in the MCU and explore why Doctor Doom is set to be the next big bad. Join us as we analyze Doom's comic book origins, his complex motivations, and the unique blend of science and sorcery that makes him one of Marvel's most powerful villains. Plus, we'll share our thoughts on RDJ's return, speculating whether he's playing Victor Von Doom, a Tony Stark variant, or both, and weigh the potential payoff and risks of this groundbreaking decision.
Don't miss our rundown of this week's comic book releases, including Uncanny X-Men #1, Batman #151, and Daredevil #12. And hear what our hosts are currently reading, from Chip Zdarsky's Daredevil series to Avengers: Time Runs Out.
Tune in for an episode filled with in-depth analysis, fan reactions, and exciting speculations about the future of the MCU. Subscribe on Substack for exclusive content, weekly recaps, and to join our engaged community of pop culture enthusiasts.
THIS is Tatooine Sons.
Subscribe to our SUBSTACK to stay up to date (completely FREE).
Looking for more episodes? https://podfollow.com/tatooine-sons-a-pop-culture-podcast/home
Join our Facebook Community SPECIFICALLY for Star Wars Dads! > https://www.facebook.com/groups/starwarsdads
We'll kick things off by discussing the end of the Kang era in the MCU and explore why Doctor Doom is set to be the next big bad. Join us as we analyze Doom's comic book origins, his complex motivations, and the unique blend of science and sorcery that makes him one of Marvel's most powerful villains. Plus, we'll share our thoughts on RDJ's return, speculating whether he's playing Victor Von Doom, a Tony Stark variant, or both, and weigh the potential payoff and risks of this groundbreaking decision.
Don't miss our rundown of this week's comic book releases, including Uncanny X-Men #1, Batman #151, and Daredevil #12. And hear what our hosts are currently reading, from Chip Zdarsky's Daredevil series to Avengers: Time Runs Out.
Tune in for an episode filled with in-depth analysis, fan reactions, and exciting speculations about the future of the MCU. Subscribe on Substack for exclusive content, weekly recaps, and to join our engaged community of pop culture enthusiasts.
THIS is Tatooine Sons.
Subscribe to our SUBSTACK to stay up to date (completely FREE).
Looking for more episodes? https://podfollow.com/tatooine-sons-a-pop-culture-podcast/home
Join our Facebook Community SPECIFICALLY for Star Wars Dads! > https://www.facebook.com/groups/starwarsdads
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Tatooing Son's a pop culture podcast, the only
fan podcast the name m Cannon Star Wars Creature and
to be endorsed by the writer director of The Last Jedi,
Ryan Johnson.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
And the world was.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Like slightly shocked. Not me, not slightly. I wasn't shocked
you were, because I didn't know until like two hours
after the announcement happened because I was watching dead Pool
Mulverraine with some friends. I was very shocked. But my
group chat for the for US three started blowing up
and I was like, what is going on? I was
(00:32):
driving and my watch kept going off. I'm like something,
something big must be happening, and it was Wesley Snipes
is going to return to the MCU universe. Crazy Now
it's Robert Downey Junior. I like, this guy iron Man
himself is back. He's alive. But it's not iron Man.
It's it's the villain of the multiverse, Multiverse Saga or
(00:57):
Mutants era or just this this. We have a want
to chapter, Doctor Doom And this is tattooing Son.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Was the name of the pork on the Millennium Falcon.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Force.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
The storm in my family.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
What do you think his name is. It's a big moment.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I am a Jedi like my father before me. Maybe
urbis Doom, I'll do not.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It is no Triy, Turbis Pablo.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
If you're listening to this live stream, that pork's name
is now Turbis.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It's a good Star Wars name.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
We're not done yet.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
These guys are recording and brossing the podcast water and
everybody else.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Washing their hands up, their hands of Jonathan Major's pretty.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Feel kind of bad for him.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I think he was.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
He was in an interview and he was like, you know,
Robert Downey Junior had all these issues early on his career,
and they kind of forgave him. And then he mentioned
Ezra Miller having the issues, and that's how people forgave him.
People have not forgiven Ezra Miller. I don't think he
understands that. He's like, but I'm not getting the same treatment,
and I don't think that he's It took a while
for RDJ to get back.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Robert Downey Junior was he falls leprosy in Hollywood for
a few years and then he he he fixed things.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yes, so it's going to take a minute for Johnvan
Majors and the MCU cannot rely on him being so
much with the take everything out of what he did
morally or anything. He's not reliable and you can't have
somebody be such a central part of the MCU right
now if you can't rely on him still being there.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
And they were already considering making this change because of
the way quantum Mania was received before any of this
stuff happened with Johnathan exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So it just feels like this is a natural evolution
of where they were going, and it it makes sense.
But welcome to tatween Sons, a pop culture podcast. We
believe that pop culture is the mythology of this generation,
that there's a story written on our souls, and that
these myths speak to that story. And that's why we're
talking about the Master of Science and Sorcery himself. Kind
(03:32):
of ish. I still believe doctor Strange is the master.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
That's one of the description names of Doctor Doom is
the Master of Science and Sorcery.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I know, but okay, he's not the biggest master of sorcery,
even though he is Sorcery Supreme a few times.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
But the ability to speak does not make you intelligence.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Doctor Victor von Doom, which is such a long names,
really cool name, and what Robert Downey Junior's also long
name version of him could be a Doomsday and beyond.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Now, before we get into that, you guess it was
just not on my being go card. But no, I
don't think it.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Was on anyone's being go card. That's why it blew up.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Crazy thing is surprised it was on somebody's being go card.
It went around two hours before the panel drops, Somebody's like,
I can't wait for Marvel to do something crazy and
announce a sixty year old r DJ is doctor Doom
And everybody was like, we're doomed. What did you just do? Like,
how did you predict.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
That somebody got fired?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Just somebody got fired. But before we get into all that,
please subscribe on subsack. We're trying to make our way
to one hundred. I think we're pretty much close to
fifty right now, so we're getting there. It's it's not
a race, it's a marathon.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
We're fine.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
We're all fine here, No, thank you, how are you?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We'll get there eventually, but we're going to release a
cool Christian mythology podcast once we get to a hundred
substack exclusive Substack exclusive for everybody's Stack is absolutely free.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You don't have to pay for it.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Is I mean, you can't pay for it. Some read
none of our stuff comes to differently if you pay
for it, you're going to be the same. Yeah, unless
you really really love us.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
You can even comment on all of our posts without paying,
which blows my mind that there are some some that
are git like are gated that way where you can
read the entire post, but you can't comment unless you're
a paid subscriber, which was that's weird.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
But yes, please subscribe on subsec. It would be great.
And we're hoping to reach that one hundred subscriber suburb
stacker goal here pretty soon. But enough talking about what
we're going to talk about. Let's talk about what we're
talking about. We have another new X Men series coming
out this week, another one. They're just releasing X Men
(05:40):
series all over the place. Yeah, I don't know. I
guess X Men's like popular right now or something.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I don't know why Fuzzball it seems weird, but uncanny
x Men. If you one is releasing, don't really know
what it's gonna entail. I think it's bringing Wolverine back
because I think for some reason he died recently. In
some things bring people back from the dead. Yeah, we
don't even care about the legacy, do they? I know
they don't care about the legacy. Yeah, it's crazy brainless.
(06:07):
We also have Batman issue one fifty one. We're reaching
the kind of end of this era of Batman, and
I'm going to talk about all that in a tiny bit.
But we also had Daredevil issue twelve, which marks the
one year anniversary since Daredevil last ended, last series ended,
because you know, we have this month. Yeah, so this
(06:28):
is the one year big issue. Hopefully we get a
lot more from it. Yeah, and I'll talk about my
thoughts with the last issue in a tiny bit. But
let's talk about Absolute Power issue too real quick.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
All right, let's get to work. Now.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
This is the big reset event. You think about it
as a crisis for DC right now.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
This was more like their Ultimates.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Not really, that's the Absolute Universe which is coming from
this now. Absolute Power is a is a timeline crashing,
big crisis event.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And encouraging pretty much.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And this is going to be ushering in the all
in era of DC. When this series ends, all in begins,
and so that's going to be helping with if you're
completely lost on a series like I Am with Batman
or Detective Comics. Once this reset happens, new arcs and
(07:21):
everything from this new universe will begin, so you can
jump into any series, which we've talked about before, that's
hard to do. It is very difficult to do. So
you can jump in find new series still the same
authors for some of them. Batman will still keep Chips
at Arsky as its main author for now you know
he is, and that's why I was so frustrated that
I got lost from it, because it was really good
(07:42):
and then it just got behind. So being able to
come back into it's going to be great. And then
there will be bringing in Scott Snyder returning to Batman
with Absolute Batman, which people aren't a fan of his design,
but I think it's awesome having a giant unit as
Batman feels different from the usual version of him we
get pretty recently, so I'm very excited for that. But
(08:03):
that's enough talking about what's coming out. There's of course more,
please check with your local comics store about that. But
Dad has actually been pulling ahead and reading comic lot
recently and seems to have found a new series that
he really enjoys. So, Sam, what have you had time
(08:24):
to read recently?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I've read two comics.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I read the final issue of The.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Invincible iron Man.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Invincible iron was all right.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Conversation anyway, you're just looking forward to the next I
mean the whole series has kind of been okay.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Is Iron Man not the same feel in the comics
as it is?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Not so much?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Oh not even close.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Well, it depends on what.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, it depends on the run.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
I mean this run was a very very different kind
of in some ways lighthearted, in other ways not but
over I'd say it was a very like lighthearted sort
of series.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
And it was fine.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
It was good enough, it was it was cool. It's
cool to be able to say that I was there
for the whole thing. But the new series does seem
really interesting. It's gonna see Tony really go back to
some roots. I mean, he's got gonna be dark and gritty,
a very piecemeal kind of suit, which the whole, the
whole crux of every Iron Man run, I think is
(09:27):
whatever new suit he's got.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You have to stay up on those, right.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
That's my whole job election, yea, my whole collection.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
So you know, the suit in this series, it's gonna
be a much more stripped I mean, we saw the
end of this series with Tony in a nearly indestructible
suit made of a metal that basically nit negates every
super hero's powers. And yes, but like on steroids, it's
like if Cortosis also had the ability of those lizards
that like stop the Force and stuff, It's insane.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That's not how the Force works.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
So we're gonna to go to a much lower, low
text to It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm
really interested in that. I don't when's it start. I
can't remember. I think it was October October, I want
to say, and then I read Transformers. Yeah, issue ten.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It was gonna spoil it.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I'm not gonna spoil it. Nothing really like major in it. Well, okay,
that's a lie.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
To something at the end there is pretty pretty big.
But it's been consistently good so far. I'm really really
enjoying keeping up with that one. I can't wait to
see where they go with it.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's a ton of fun. And Dad, you've been reading,
and you're gonna be able to kind of speed up
your reading here pretty soon.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, talk about I want to hear what you're reading first,
because we're gonna end up okay, so what I'm reading
will transition into the next segment.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Sadly, Sam actually had the most comics from our last
comic pickup I had. I had one. I think I
maybe have had two, but it was batning off my
Gaslight Kryptonian age, and it's not horrible. It's just nothing
too special has happened quite yet. About read Daredevil issue eleven,
which has just been such a good series. This issue
(11:06):
was as great as the rest of it. And also
hearing a kind of semi possessed semi is sold to
the devil Kingpin quoting Bible verses out of context in
his favor.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
And devil it was. It was no temptations.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It was so good. And then seeing I mean, Kingpin
has always been super strong, super strong, and then having
supernatural strength on top of that, You're sitting here wondering
how is Matt gonna get through this, which is kind
of how you always want to read any Daredevil series.
(11:45):
You never think that Matt's gonna win, and he always
finds a way to do it, whether that's going to
hell and fighting the devil himself like he did in
the last series, or whatever he wants to do, he
ends up doing it, and it's always great. But I
think that this series, I know a lot of people
I've seen read a lot of reviews complaining about it
being too religious.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Everywhere in that sense was wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I think that they don't understand that's dared obile and
if you don't want that, there are hundreds of other
superheroes and comic lines that you can go to, but
this is pretty much one of the only ones going
on right now that has that be such a central
point to the character and doesn't feel out of place.
It's not preachy, and it's really well done, and it's
(12:29):
not really wholesome and clean. It's dark, it's gritty, it's
it's violent. This is one of the more violent Dear this.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Is Angel Studios.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
No, it's not God's Not Dead seventeen. It's really well
done and it's a great series so far, and I
can't wait to see kind of where we go with
issue twelve. It's gonna be a big one because it's
it's the year year anniversary, so I'm wondering to see
where those Usually a year after they pretty much big
(12:58):
moments happen, and it's kind of feeling like we're reaching
a point where we have to get moving forward, and
because we've had them fighting for almost two issues by now,
so we have to get something. So, yeah, Dad, what
have what have you been reading?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I read some Daredevil, some more Daredevil. I kind of
got further into the Chips Adarski run where we have
a very classic Punisher versus Daredevil issue, which it's fun
to watch or fun to read because it feels in
a lot of ways it kind of feels like that
conversation in season two of Daredevil the series when they're
(13:36):
on the rooftop and they're talking about like, you know,
motivations and and and and Frank Castle's kind of, yeah,
this is exactly this isn't going to work right. What
you're doing doesn't make sense. You're gonna have and and
you're gonna end up losing your way and you're gonna
end up going over the top. And it was very
very similar. Sort it reminded me about that the problem
(13:58):
is reading these on It's just hard for me to
read them well that smells think with yeah, because I've
got my eyesight's not where it needs to be with it,
and even with glasses is some of the print is
a really really smart it's harder with it. So I
was trying to read it on my phone where I
could zoom in, but that's even hard because my phone
is still too small, so it's just clunky to try
(14:20):
to get in on some of that.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So we're to get it on your iPad or anything.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
He has a black and white kindle.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, but the black and white makes it hard to too,
and the color is bad.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, you can't. You can't see any of the color.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
So I ordered an iPad that's going to be here
today and I've actually part of the impetus behind that
was I started a new series. So all of this
RD Day Doctor Doom, you know, stuff that happened at
San Diego Comic Con, had me like, we'll talk about
it in the next part of the show. But I
was reading, like trying to figure out how this is
(14:54):
going to work, and not really very happy about it.
So I watched I was not I was watching some
new rock Star stuff. I was watching some heavy spoiler stuff.
I was watching some screen crush stuff and some other
things to try to understand how Doctor Doom and RDJ
and Iron Man and Tony Start could all fit together
in this, and they got me all pointed towards obviously
secret Ors twenty fifteen, which is going to be I mean,
(15:17):
Secret Worse twenty fifteen. The cover of one of the
issues is just on the ground next to Deadpool when
they end up in the Void, but specifically Issue five,
which is the cover, is the entire face of Doctor Doom,
and so it's kind of like, oh wait, there's something
(15:37):
going on here with that. And then as I will
watched all these different videos, I found out that not
only the Secret Or twenty fifteen, but really the precursor
to that series, which is Time Runs Out, the Avengers
Run and the Young Avengers Run got me interested. So
I thought, well, I'll subscribe to a free trial of
Marvel Unlimited and check out and see what I can do.
And I am totally in on that line that one
(15:58):
right now. I've read like seven or eight issues of it,
and there's an Avengers Run I need to recommend if
you like that. I need to remember where it is,
but I'll let me know. But I'm right now. I mean,
it's got Illuminati stuff, which seems to tie into some
of the things they've been doing with the MCU. It's
got incursions like crazy, it's got Doctor Doom leading this
cabal of bad guys, and then of course you've got
(16:19):
the Avengers and Shield with it. But they're all trying
to figure out how to deal with this multi universal
destruction that's coming because these incursions have gotten out of control,
and from what I understand.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Is it leads to drawing to dock on the Woo case.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
The events of Secret Wars twenty fifteen. So all of
that together, I'm a great run and I love Tony
Stark in this really yeah, Jonathan Hickman writes, really good
Tony Stark from what I've heard. So I'm waiting to
get into Secret Wars. I got to find a good
collection for it that kind of gives me everything and
probably spend too much money on an omnibus. But now
(16:57):
let's kind of dive into what could spelled doom for
the mc NICE. Okay, so let's kind of dive into
who Victor von dum is in the comics. That's difficult
(17:18):
because he's been in the comics for I think we
need this point. I'm gonna I'm gonna pivot as the
your pivoting as the dad. Can I have a word?
We have to first talk about how do we feel
about r d J. We're doomed right now, and I've
had a chance to probably process it differently because I've
dug into these comics and the stories more. Sam, this
(17:38):
is Tony Stark to this is what, that's what Tony sink.
This is Tony Stark, Robert Downey junior iron Man. Now
he's Victor von Doom, doctor Doom. How are you feeling
about this at this moment? I got a bad feeling
about this.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I don't know. I mean, I love RDJ.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I mean his I've seen clips at the moment when
he like unmasks himself and he's just got the the
presence that you just expect.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Like It's weird.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
How easily that sort of Tony Stark persona can easily
be turned into an egotistical villain like that. So I think,
just because he is a phenomenal actor, he's going to
kill the role no matter what.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I'm just.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
I don't think it's gonna work unless they tie it
into being Tony Stark somehow that or they're gonna need
Deadpool to come in and make some silly comment addressing
how weird it is, because it's too weird to ignore,
you know. I mean, heck, they even addressed the whole
(18:57):
General Ross President Ross thing in the trailer for Falcon
Winter Soldier. I would have been fine had they never
said anything, it would have been fine.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
This is the main.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Character of these first of that first saga in the MCU,
it's that actor coming back to play the major villain
for the end.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You can't gloss over that and ignore it.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well, and then, you know, you bring up Harrison Ford
versus Roady, and they even mentioned that they even joke
at that, so either and then and then you have
them choosing not to continue to Tralla with a new
actor and Kang with a new actor because they're major,
(19:39):
like top level characters that you can't just replace with.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
So I feel like this has to be related to
Tony Stark in some way, whether it's a variant that went.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Evil or I don't know.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
They'll probably pull some weird, crazy comic bookie explanation for it,
and that's fine. I don't have an issue with weird
comic book explanations for stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
This is the MCU we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
It's great, the or comic bookie, the better, but they
have to address it otherwise it's not gonna work otherwise.
But if it is that way, I think Tony Stark
being evil. I literally mentioned that on one of our episodes.
I was like, I would love for Secret Wars to
see an evil Tony Stark variant. It certainly didn't expect
it to be Victor von Doom, but I'm okay with that,
(20:22):
you know, I think it'll be good if they go
that route.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Now, Nathan, you had the completely opposite reaction at both
of it, and I'll say, look, before we get that,
my reaction was very similar years originally, like and then
Nathan kept trying to like, you know, Nathan being who
he is, he's always light side, positive and trying to
pull you know, like good things out of these stories
and stuff. He's like trying to help us process and
(20:45):
deal with it and become excited about it. And I
was struggling really with it. I was like, even more
vocally than you were.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Sam, Yeah, I'm trying to look on the bride side.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
But Nathan, you had a very different reaction. I'm very
for it. I mean, just taking it from you, take
any type of how it's gonna work continuity. RDJ is
gonna kill its Victor von Doom. He's an amazing actor,
and then you look at it from I genuinely don't
believe he would have signed on if he didn't believe
(21:19):
this was gonna work and pay a good amount of
respect to what he has done before. I also don't
think the Russo brothers would have been the only reason
that RDJ signed on was if the Russo brothers were
directing these movies. There's a reason for that. I also
don't think that the writer for Avengers Doom, Day in
Secret Wars would have treated this character. The writer for
(21:41):
Captain America, the First Avenger, Captain America, Winter Soldier, Civil War,
Infinity War, and Endgame. Okay, that's like really good of
the MCU.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It pretty close to our favorite movies.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
So everything's lining up to this being taking care of
and there's a reason for this, and they know it. Heck,
they've known that our DJ is going to be playing
doctor Doom for months now.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
I actually heard that that decision was only finalized about
thirty days ago, and that's and that's when they had
to go into full negotiation mode with the Russo brothers
to get them on board in order to make well.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Matt Shackman has known that this has been in the
process for a while. So who's the director of fantastic
which is also from another reality. We can get into
that in a little bit. But I think that the
MCU people in there know a lot more than we do,
and I think we're just kind of overreacting with the
(22:41):
little amount of information we have and just kind of
go into this expecting to enjoy it. They rarely let
us down, and I don't think we're having any issues.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I do find it funny though, the timing of yeah,
the announcement after the whole deviln Wolverine, like, Oh, we're
returning to this grave.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Let's hope we don't defile the memory, and they're.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Like, oh, here's Fox killed him start again after he
died in an endgame.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Well, I do think, you know, if you take it
out of the story, which we'll have to get into
when we start talking about Doctor Doom, we can talk
about the story and how this could work with that
from a production like Studios Box Office movies perspective. I
think there's a couple of things that are going on
with this. I think that this is a hard reset
(23:34):
of the multiverse saga. That is, like, okay, we are
without saying Jonathan Major's is out, and we're pivoting away
from King Dynasty. We're telling you that's done, that's dead,
We're done. We're moving to Doctor Avengers Doomsday with the
bad villain of the of the Avengers movies going forward
is going to be Doctor Doom, and that's going to
be important. So I think that that's what we take
(23:55):
away from it. From that perspective, I do think that
also this says to everybody that's got enough you know
that understand, like, are are willing to be honest about
what's happened with the MCU. This is a hail Mary. Yeah.
(24:16):
For the end it is this is we have to
fix this, and we have to fix it quick, and
the best way to do that is to get Robert
Downey Junior back into this story. Because this is going
to change the story, the narrative going forward. People are
going to be excited about it. It has backfired to
some extent, which is why I also think they chose
(24:37):
to get out in front of it this soon, like
get this out there, give people literally years to absorb
this reality is what's going to happen before these movies
come out, so that they can process it. And then
going back to Deadpool Wolverene, which we really haven't talked
(24:57):
about in this episode, we did in our previous episode completely.
But I think that the whole reason that they did
the Chris Evans make you think it's Captain America Steve
Rodgers pivot to Johnny Storm from the Fantastic Four was
(25:20):
to establish in canon MCU, Marvel Studios, Cannon that the
same actor can be playing two different characters that are
major characters and it and it be like, you have
to accept this.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I don't think it's the same though, because we had
already seen him in those two roles previously, and it's
not in the same universe.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, I'm not saying we're in the same universe yet,
I'm saying that what happens if at some point in
the future, a multiversal thing took place where Johnny Storm
had to come over into six one six or Steve
Rogers went over into the other universe, and you then
have some challenges, right because because hey, you've got incursion
things potent well, and I don't know, you don't have incursions.
(26:09):
There are different characters, but they look the same, and
that's been established in the MCU now, and so I
think that that's a big moment with this.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
It is. And I from the little I know of
Victor von Doom from the comics, he has a very
rich backstory and a lot that he's done, and I
think you can pretty much call him one of the
top three most powerful villains in the Marvel universe. He's crazy.
(26:40):
I mean, you have the powers of doctor Strange, who
is the Massili with the intelligence of basically read Richards
and Tony Stark combined, and then the evil of Dano's
and then you bring in a vendetta against Mephisto and
fighting him consistently.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Pray to God that they bring in Mephisto just so
we can have that moment in the MCU finally, finally, Yeah,
So you bring in all of these things with Victor
von Doom, and I know that one part in the
comics when he makes his mask and his suit and
all that stuff in his backstory, it is mentioned firmly,
and I think it's a pretty big part of Doctor Doom,
and it's something that I don't think the rest of
(27:25):
the Fantastic Four adaptations have really gotten. Is when he
makes that mask, he calls it his his new skin,
and that he'll never take that mask off again. I
and you bring that into this part of the MCU
and you're thinking about it, of Okay, well, if this
if RDIJ is playing Victor von Doom, and you have
(27:46):
him pretty much already established his doom, he shouldn't take
off the mask. But then why do you cast Arty
J in this role?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Some little kind of side note, but also sort of related.
I saw this post.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
It's like, what if Doctor Doom's mask is a version
or looks very similar to the Mark One helmet mask
from because they look almost very similar in a lot
of ways. If you just tweak it a little bit,
I think that would be a really cool touch.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And I think that we could be seeing this. There's
a reason they cast already J in this role, just
from everything that we've gotten evidence from, and I really
believe that you'll be seeing a lot of ties to
and respect to the original Victor von Doom, while also
bringing in this what I'd assume at this point is
(28:40):
a Tony Stark variant, and I feel like it's one
of those Tony Stark variants that kind of had that
one bad day problem and switched because we've seen what
happens if Tony could lose control. I mean, you think
about it, Tron He's powerful, I mean, and he's passed
and driven. And a personal theory I have is, maybe
(29:05):
we see a Tony Stark without a Pepper Potts, because
I feel like Pepper was always the center for Tony,
the moral company, the thing that kept him grounded, the
thing that made him become Iron Man in the first place,
was Pepper. And so if we see a Tony that say,
(29:30):
beginning forty five minutes of Iron Man still happens, but
without a Pepper Potts, he's just a vengeful, rageful man
that has a lot of money and is super smart.
So you bring that into a world that granted, we
can assume that this Victor von Doom is most likely
(29:52):
going to come from the other universe, that the Fantastic
Four coming from that will be brought into the six
one six, and we've already had confirmed that that's set
kind of in the nineteen sixties, but also a futuristic
retro city. So there's already differences in that world and
with technology that we aren't sure how that's going to
(30:12):
be brought in.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Right, it's a retro universe, it's set in the sixties,
but the technology is at the highest level. It's like
twenty twenties. Yeah, it's nose, it's sixties six level. Yeah,
it's crazy, if not higher than that. So we're seeing
a what we could assume, a vengeful, rageful Tony Stark
who could just be considered a doctor Doom now or
(30:37):
going by a different name alias Victor von Doom, that
has a lot of money, has a lot of time,
has a lot of passion, and is deciding with this
new technology to create the one thing that has been
fed to our RDJ during this entire thing. You can
(30:58):
tell it's been on all this social media posts. It's
what he said when he announced it. It was new mask,
same task. This is the same type of Tony Stark,
a Tony Stark that wanted to see, you know, the
suit of.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Armor around the world. But this is the Tony Stark
that made that vision, that dream a reality in the
wrong way. I feel like or he could have just
tested and it backfired on him. So maybe he's constantly
trapped now in a new suit. The thing is we're
theorizing off of something that we don't even know off.
(31:37):
But I would tell you what.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I think that that what we're going to see, Sam.
I hope this. There's two reasons that I struggled with this. One,
how do you have Tony Stark play or how do
you have our RDJ play Victor von Doom and it
be true to Victor von Doom which you talk about
(32:00):
backstory and he's an amazing story in himself, and he
deserves Victor von Doom deserves to be Victor Vaughan do
in the in the Marvel universe in the future. And
so then it diminishes that part of us if you
have Tony Stark's variant doing this, and then at the
same time it diminishes you know, the or It just
(32:23):
it just creates a challenge for me to see Tony
Stark in that role. So what I Sam, what I
think is going to happen with this. I hope this helps.
Since I've come to a little bit better terms with
this entire idea as a result of this is you're
going to get a Tony Stark variant from the Fantastic
four timeline with it who very much what you just described, Nate,
(32:47):
He's gone way over the dive a new Rock Stars
Airpross has this theory that remember in a Lokey season
two you had Victor Timely, who was king who was
back in your like the World's Fair back in the
eighteen nineties or something like that, and releasing tech, creating
crazy technology. His theory is in the Fantastic four timeline
(33:08):
that that's actually not Victor Timely Timely that does that.
That's Howard Stark in like a for whatever reason, it
happens earlier in the timeline that Howard Stark's out there
doing this, and so that's what's moving technology forward like this,
and then his son something happens with Tony and that's
what creates this version of Tony Stark and all this,
(33:30):
and it's going to be a Tony Stark. I don't
think that we see his face for a large of this.
I think it's allow us to see a Doctor Doom
with the mask being the evil guy, get to the
point where you're used to it. But then in the
back of your head, you know that that's already that's
Tony's face underneath that. And then somehow, probably at the
(33:52):
end of Avengers Doomsday, you're going to see this moment
where it's probably Peter Parker now he's going to end
up unmasking Doctor Doom, and it's going to be Tony,
and the whole thing is going to like, we're going
to all lose our freaking crap at that moment, and
then they're going to have to deal with fighting what
they see as Tony in this thing. But it's going
(34:15):
to be a multiverse version of that, and I think
that that's going to be be the way that this ends.
I think it's important for us to also it's pretty
much being accepted that the end of Secret Wars of
Intersecret Wars is going to be a complete hard reboot
reset of everything in the Marvel Universe, where you're gonna
(34:37):
get new actors, new stories, new characters, all of this,
very much like in the comic book world where they
do this kind of thing. I think it needs that too,
and they're going to allow you then to bring in
a classic Victor von Doom origin story so that that
story gets to be played out with that. How would
you feel if it's played out more that way?
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, I think that's the.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Best way to handle it, Like you mentioned, and you know,
you need to give the respect to both characters, and
I think the way that you mentioned that is probably
going to be the best way.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
To do it. I would love if we got a
little When does the Fantastic four movie come out.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Next year the same day as Superman? I don't think
they're gonna be able to keep that release going to happen.
They haven't started filming.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
But I would love, ah, Doctor doom Tees or something
in Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
We've got a Galactis team.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
That was cool.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
That was really.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Finally comic accurate glack.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
It's not just a giant cloud like it was a
Fantastic four Rise of Silver Surfer.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
What was it with superhero movies being afraid of being
superhero movies?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Studio interference? But I'm excited to see I know we're
getting Victor von du Yeah, he's going to be It's
going to be a post credit scene, especially since nobody knew,
like like Jeremy rennerd the og Avengers didn't even know
that r DJ was coming.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Back.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
But the director of Fantastic Four does why why is that?
Why is that important? So I yeah, he knows he's
being in there. It's just that's probably why they waited
to start filming so late. And so, yeah, we're super
excited to see this. I'm very excited to see what
happens with the MCU and Doctor Doom. But and I
fear nothing. We'll see what other people say and what
(36:13):
happens in the coming years. All right, Well, that was
fun talking about what do we needed to get that? Yeah,
I was. I would say I'm excited for it. But
is the path to the dark Side if you're not familiar,
if you're trying to make sure you keep it up
with us. Our weekly release schedule is Monday. We talk
about what we're excited about. On Monday, we talked about Deadpool, Wulverine.
(36:36):
It's just kind of a fun little conversation.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I have a feeling based on we saw Trap.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, we did see Trap the.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Other day, Sam, you're seeing it today. Yep. It might
be fun to talk about that.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Do or do not?
Speaker 3 (36:48):
There is no Trap?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, we might have something to talk about with that.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
That'd be fun.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, it would be fun. Wednesday is New Comic Book Day.
Of course, as you're listening to this, it's kind of
just like, what are some of the big comics coming
out and what we're reading, and then some comic topics
that we have. It's been easy this week. Most weeks
it's it's a bit difficult, but it was super simple
this week. And then Friday, we have our monthly series.
This month it's The Acolyte, and we are talking about
(37:13):
the story coming up on Friday and so that it's
a ton of fun. But please follow us on substack.
We have in depth exploration and just community engagement and
weekly recaps and all that stuff. And we're trying to
reach that one hundred subscriber goals, so that would be great.
But is there anything else y'all want to say? May
the Force be with you, May the Force be with you.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
May be with you all. Wait, this party's over.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
With me.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Please
This is Tatooing Son's a pop culture podcast, the only
fan podcast the name m Cannon Star Wars Creature and
to be endorsed by the writer director of The Last Jedi,
Ryan Johnson.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
And the world was.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Like slightly shocked. Not me, not slightly. I wasn't shocked
you were, because I didn't know until like two hours
after the announcement happened because I was watching dead Pool
Mulverraine with some friends. I was very shocked. But my
group chat for the for US three started blowing up
and I was like, what is going on? I was
(00:32):
driving and my watch kept going off. I'm like something,
something big must be happening, and it was Wesley Snipes
is going to return to the MCU universe. Crazy Now
it's Robert Downey Junior. I like, this guy iron Man
himself is back. He's alive. But it's not iron Man.
It's it's the villain of the multiverse, Multiverse Saga or
(00:57):
Mutants era or just this this. We have a want
to chapter, Doctor Doom And this is tattooing Son.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Was the name of the pork on the Millennium Falcon.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Force.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
The storm in my family.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
What do you think his name is. It's a big moment.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I am a Jedi like my father before me. Maybe
urbis Doom, I'll do not.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It is no Triy, Turbis Pablo.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
If you're listening to this live stream, that pork's name
is now Turbis.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It's a good Star Wars name.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
We're not done yet.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
These guys are recording and brossing the podcast water and
everybody else.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Washing their hands up, their hands of Jonathan Major's pretty.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Feel kind of bad for him.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I think he was.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
He was in an interview and he was like, you know,
Robert Downey Junior had all these issues early on his career,
and they kind of forgave him. And then he mentioned
Ezra Miller having the issues, and that's how people forgave him.
People have not forgiven Ezra Miller. I don't think he
understands that. He's like, but I'm not getting the same treatment,
and I don't think that he's It took a while
for RDJ to get back.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Robert Downey Junior was he falls leprosy in Hollywood for
a few years and then he he he fixed things.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yes, so it's going to take a minute for Johnvan
Majors and the MCU cannot rely on him being so
much with the take everything out of what he did
morally or anything. He's not reliable and you can't have
somebody be such a central part of the MCU right
now if you can't rely on him still being there.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
And they were already considering making this change because of
the way quantum Mania was received before any of this
stuff happened with Johnathan exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So it just feels like this is a natural evolution
of where they were going, and it it makes sense.
But welcome to tatween Sons, a pop culture podcast. We
believe that pop culture is the mythology of this generation,
that there's a story written on our souls, and that
these myths speak to that story. And that's why we're
talking about the Master of Science and Sorcery himself. Kind
(03:32):
of ish. I still believe doctor Strange is the master.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
That's one of the description names of Doctor Doom is
the Master of Science and Sorcery.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I know, but okay, he's not the biggest master of sorcery,
even though he is Sorcery Supreme a few times.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
But the ability to speak does not make you intelligence.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Doctor Victor von Doom, which is such a long names,
really cool name, and what Robert Downey Junior's also long
name version of him could be a Doomsday and beyond.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Now, before we get into that, you guess it was
just not on my being go card. But no, I
don't think it.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Was on anyone's being go card. That's why it blew up.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Crazy thing is surprised it was on somebody's being go card.
It went around two hours before the panel drops, Somebody's like,
I can't wait for Marvel to do something crazy and
announce a sixty year old r DJ is doctor Doom
And everybody was like, we're doomed. What did you just do? Like,
how did you predict.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
That somebody got fired?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Just somebody got fired. But before we get into all that,
please subscribe on subsack. We're trying to make our way
to one hundred. I think we're pretty much close to
fifty right now, so we're getting there. It's it's not
a race, it's a marathon.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
We're fine.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
We're all fine here, No, thank you, how are you?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We'll get there eventually, but we're going to release a
cool Christian mythology podcast once we get to a hundred
substack exclusive Substack exclusive for everybody's Stack is absolutely free.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You don't have to pay for it.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Is I mean, you can't pay for it. Some read
none of our stuff comes to differently if you pay
for it, you're going to be the same. Yeah, unless
you really really love us.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
You can even comment on all of our posts without paying,
which blows my mind that there are some some that
are git like are gated that way where you can
read the entire post, but you can't comment unless you're
a paid subscriber, which was that's weird.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
But yes, please subscribe on subsec. It would be great.
And we're hoping to reach that one hundred subscriber suburb
stacker goal here pretty soon. But enough talking about what
we're going to talk about. Let's talk about what we're
talking about. We have another new X Men series coming
out this week, another one. They're just releasing X Men
(05:40):
series all over the place. Yeah, I don't know. I
guess X Men's like popular right now or something.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I don't know why Fuzzball it seems weird, but uncanny
x Men. If you one is releasing, don't really know
what it's gonna entail. I think it's bringing Wolverine back
because I think for some reason he died recently. In
some things bring people back from the dead. Yeah, we
don't even care about the legacy, do they? I know
they don't care about the legacy. Yeah, it's crazy brainless.
(06:07):
We also have Batman issue one fifty one. We're reaching
the kind of end of this era of Batman, and
I'm going to talk about all that in a tiny bit.
But we also had Daredevil issue twelve, which marks the
one year anniversary since Daredevil last ended, last series ended,
because you know, we have this month. Yeah, so this
(06:28):
is the one year big issue. Hopefully we get a
lot more from it. Yeah, and I'll talk about my
thoughts with the last issue in a tiny bit. But
let's talk about Absolute Power issue too real quick.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
All right, let's get to work. Now.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
This is the big reset event. You think about it
as a crisis for DC right now.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
This was more like their Ultimates.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Not really, that's the Absolute Universe which is coming from
this now. Absolute Power is a is a timeline crashing,
big crisis event.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And encouraging pretty much.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And this is going to be ushering in the all
in era of DC. When this series ends, all in begins,
and so that's going to be helping with if you're
completely lost on a series like I Am with Batman
or Detective Comics. Once this reset happens, new arcs and
(07:21):
everything from this new universe will begin, so you can
jump into any series, which we've talked about before, that's
hard to do. It is very difficult to do. So
you can jump in find new series still the same
authors for some of them. Batman will still keep Chips
at Arsky as its main author for now you know
he is, and that's why I was so frustrated that
I got lost from it, because it was really good
(07:42):
and then it just got behind. So being able to
come back into it's going to be great. And then
there will be bringing in Scott Snyder returning to Batman
with Absolute Batman, which people aren't a fan of his design,
but I think it's awesome having a giant unit as
Batman feels different from the usual version of him we
get pretty recently, so I'm very excited for that. But
(08:03):
that's enough talking about what's coming out. There's of course more,
please check with your local comics store about that. But
Dad has actually been pulling ahead and reading comic lot
recently and seems to have found a new series that
he really enjoys. So, Sam, what have you had time
(08:24):
to read recently?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I've read two comics.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I read the final issue of The.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Invincible iron Man.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Invincible iron was all right.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Conversation anyway, you're just looking forward to the next I
mean the whole series has kind of been okay.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Is Iron Man not the same feel in the comics
as it is?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Not so much?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Oh not even close.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Well, it depends on what.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, it depends on the run.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
I mean this run was a very very different kind
of in some ways lighthearted, in other ways not but
over I'd say it was a very like lighthearted sort
of series.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
And it was fine.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
It was good enough, it was it was cool. It's
cool to be able to say that I was there
for the whole thing. But the new series does seem
really interesting. It's gonna see Tony really go back to
some roots. I mean, he's got gonna be dark and gritty,
a very piecemeal kind of suit, which the whole, the
whole crux of every Iron Man run, I think is
(09:27):
whatever new suit he's got.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You have to stay up on those, right.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
That's my whole job election, yea, my whole collection.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
So you know, the suit in this series, it's gonna
be a much more stripped I mean, we saw the
end of this series with Tony in a nearly indestructible
suit made of a metal that basically nit negates every
super hero's powers. And yes, but like on steroids, it's
like if Cortosis also had the ability of those lizards
that like stop the Force and stuff, It's insane.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That's not how the Force works.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
So we're gonna to go to a much lower, low
text to It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm
really interested in that. I don't when's it start. I
can't remember. I think it was October October, I want
to say, and then I read Transformers. Yeah, issue ten.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It was gonna spoil it.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I'm not gonna spoil it. Nothing really like major in it. Well, okay,
that's a lie.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
To something at the end there is pretty pretty big.
But it's been consistently good so far. I'm really really
enjoying keeping up with that one. I can't wait to
see where they go with it.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's a ton of fun. And Dad, you've been reading,
and you're gonna be able to kind of speed up
your reading here pretty soon.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, talk about I want to hear what you're reading first,
because we're gonna end up okay, so what I'm reading
will transition into the next segment.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Sadly, Sam actually had the most comics from our last
comic pickup I had. I had one. I think I
maybe have had two, but it was batning off my
Gaslight Kryptonian age, and it's not horrible. It's just nothing
too special has happened quite yet. About read Daredevil issue eleven,
which has just been such a good series. This issue
(11:06):
was as great as the rest of it. And also
hearing a kind of semi possessed semi is sold to
the devil Kingpin quoting Bible verses out of context in
his favor.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
And devil it was. It was no temptations.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It was so good. And then seeing I mean, Kingpin
has always been super strong, super strong, and then having
supernatural strength on top of that, You're sitting here wondering
how is Matt gonna get through this, which is kind
of how you always want to read any Daredevil series.
(11:45):
You never think that Matt's gonna win, and he always
finds a way to do it, whether that's going to
hell and fighting the devil himself like he did in
the last series, or whatever he wants to do, he
ends up doing it, and it's always great. But I
think that this series, I know a lot of people
I've seen read a lot of reviews complaining about it
being too religious.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Everywhere in that sense was wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I think that they don't understand that's dared obile and
if you don't want that, there are hundreds of other
superheroes and comic lines that you can go to, but
this is pretty much one of the only ones going
on right now that has that be such a central
point to the character and doesn't feel out of place.
It's not preachy, and it's really well done, and it's
(12:29):
not really wholesome and clean. It's dark, it's gritty, it's
it's violent. This is one of the more violent Dear this.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Is Angel Studios.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
No, it's not God's Not Dead seventeen. It's really well
done and it's a great series so far, and I
can't wait to see kind of where we go with
issue twelve. It's gonna be a big one because it's
it's the year year anniversary, so I'm wondering to see
where those Usually a year after they pretty much big
(12:58):
moments happen, and it's kind of feeling like we're reaching
a point where we have to get moving forward, and
because we've had them fighting for almost two issues by now,
so we have to get something. So, yeah, Dad, what
have what have you been reading?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I read some Daredevil, some more Daredevil. I kind of
got further into the Chips Adarski run where we have
a very classic Punisher versus Daredevil issue, which it's fun
to watch or fun to read because it feels in
a lot of ways it kind of feels like that
conversation in season two of Daredevil the series when they're
(13:36):
on the rooftop and they're talking about like, you know,
motivations and and and and Frank Castle's kind of, yeah,
this is exactly this isn't going to work right. What
you're doing doesn't make sense. You're gonna have and and
you're gonna end up losing your way and you're gonna
end up going over the top. And it was very
very similar. Sort it reminded me about that the problem
(13:58):
is reading these on It's just hard for me to
read them well that smells think with yeah, because I've
got my eyesight's not where it needs to be with it,
and even with glasses is some of the print is
a really really smart it's harder with it. So I
was trying to read it on my phone where I
could zoom in, but that's even hard because my phone
is still too small, so it's just clunky to try
(14:20):
to get in on some of that.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So we're to get it on your iPad or anything.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
He has a black and white kindle.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, but the black and white makes it hard to too,
and the color is bad.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, you can't. You can't see any of the color.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
So I ordered an iPad that's going to be here
today and I've actually part of the impetus behind that
was I started a new series. So all of this
RD Day Doctor Doom, you know, stuff that happened at
San Diego Comic Con, had me like, we'll talk about
it in the next part of the show. But I
was reading, like trying to figure out how this is
(14:54):
going to work, and not really very happy about it.
So I watched I was not I was watching some
new rock Star stuff. I was watching some heavy spoiler stuff.
I was watching some screen crush stuff and some other
things to try to understand how Doctor Doom and RDJ
and Iron Man and Tony Start could all fit together
in this, and they got me all pointed towards obviously
secret Ors twenty fifteen, which is going to be I mean,
(15:17):
Secret Worse twenty fifteen. The cover of one of the
issues is just on the ground next to Deadpool when
they end up in the Void, but specifically Issue five,
which is the cover, is the entire face of Doctor Doom,
and so it's kind of like, oh wait, there's something
(15:37):
going on here with that. And then as I will
watched all these different videos, I found out that not
only the Secret Or twenty fifteen, but really the precursor
to that series, which is Time Runs Out, the Avengers
Run and the Young Avengers Run got me interested. So
I thought, well, I'll subscribe to a free trial of
Marvel Unlimited and check out and see what I can do.
And I am totally in on that line that one
(15:58):
right now. I've read like seven or eight issues of it,
and there's an Avengers Run I need to recommend if
you like that. I need to remember where it is,
but I'll let me know. But I'm right now. I mean,
it's got Illuminati stuff, which seems to tie into some
of the things they've been doing with the MCU. It's
got incursions like crazy, it's got Doctor Doom leading this
cabal of bad guys, and then of course you've got
(16:19):
the Avengers and Shield with it. But they're all trying
to figure out how to deal with this multi universal
destruction that's coming because these incursions have gotten out of control,
and from what I understand.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Is it leads to drawing to dock on the Woo case.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
The events of Secret Wars twenty fifteen. So all of
that together, I'm a great run and I love Tony
Stark in this really yeah, Jonathan Hickman writes, really good
Tony Stark from what I've heard. So I'm waiting to
get into Secret Wars. I got to find a good
collection for it that kind of gives me everything and
probably spend too much money on an omnibus. But now
(16:57):
let's kind of dive into what could spelled doom for
the mc NICE. Okay, so let's kind of dive into
who Victor von dum is in the comics. That's difficult
(17:18):
because he's been in the comics for I think we
need this point. I'm gonna I'm gonna pivot as the
your pivoting as the dad. Can I have a word?
We have to first talk about how do we feel
about r d J. We're doomed right now, and I've
had a chance to probably process it differently because I've
dug into these comics and the stories more. Sam, this
(17:38):
is Tony Stark to this is what, that's what Tony sink.
This is Tony Stark, Robert Downey junior iron Man. Now
he's Victor von Doom, doctor Doom. How are you feeling
about this at this moment? I got a bad feeling
about this.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I don't know. I mean, I love RDJ.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I mean his I've seen clips at the moment when
he like unmasks himself and he's just got the the
presence that you just expect.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Like It's weird.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
How easily that sort of Tony Stark persona can easily
be turned into an egotistical villain like that. So I think,
just because he is a phenomenal actor, he's going to
kill the role no matter what.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I'm just.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
I don't think it's gonna work unless they tie it
into being Tony Stark somehow that or they're gonna need
Deadpool to come in and make some silly comment addressing
how weird it is, because it's too weird to ignore,
you know. I mean, heck, they even addressed the whole
(18:57):
General Ross President Ross thing in the trailer for Falcon
Winter Soldier. I would have been fine had they never
said anything, it would have been fine.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
This is the main.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Character of these first of that first saga in the MCU,
it's that actor coming back to play the major villain
for the end.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You can't gloss over that and ignore it.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well, and then, you know, you bring up Harrison Ford
versus Roady, and they even mentioned that they even joke
at that, so either and then and then you have
them choosing not to continue to Tralla with a new
actor and Kang with a new actor because they're major,
(19:39):
like top level characters that you can't just replace with.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
So I feel like this has to be related to
Tony Stark in some way, whether it's a variant that went.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Evil or I don't know.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
They'll probably pull some weird, crazy comic bookie explanation for it,
and that's fine. I don't have an issue with weird
comic book explanations for stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
This is the MCU we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
It's great, the or comic bookie, the better, but they
have to address it otherwise it's not gonna work otherwise.
But if it is that way, I think Tony Stark
being evil. I literally mentioned that on one of our episodes.
I was like, I would love for Secret Wars to
see an evil Tony Stark variant. It certainly didn't expect
it to be Victor von Doom, but I'm okay with that,
(20:22):
you know, I think it'll be good if they go
that route.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Now, Nathan, you had the completely opposite reaction at both
of it, and I'll say, look, before we get that,
my reaction was very similar years originally, like and then
Nathan kept trying to like, you know, Nathan being who
he is, he's always light side, positive and trying to
pull you know, like good things out of these stories
and stuff. He's like trying to help us process and
(20:45):
deal with it and become excited about it. And I
was struggling really with it. I was like, even more
vocally than you were.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Sam, Yeah, I'm trying to look on the bride side.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
But Nathan, you had a very different reaction. I'm very
for it. I mean, just taking it from you, take
any type of how it's gonna work continuity. RDJ is
gonna kill its Victor von Doom. He's an amazing actor,
and then you look at it from I genuinely don't
believe he would have signed on if he didn't believe
(21:19):
this was gonna work and pay a good amount of
respect to what he has done before. I also don't
think the Russo brothers would have been the only reason
that RDJ signed on was if the Russo brothers were
directing these movies. There's a reason for that. I also
don't think that the writer for Avengers Doom, Day in
Secret Wars would have treated this character. The writer for
(21:41):
Captain America, the First Avenger, Captain America, Winter Soldier, Civil War,
Infinity War, and Endgame. Okay, that's like really good of
the MCU.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It pretty close to our favorite movies.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
So everything's lining up to this being taking care of
and there's a reason for this, and they know it. Heck,
they've known that our DJ is going to be playing
doctor Doom for months now.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
I actually heard that that decision was only finalized about
thirty days ago, and that's and that's when they had
to go into full negotiation mode with the Russo brothers
to get them on board in order to make well.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Matt Shackman has known that this has been in the
process for a while. So who's the director of fantastic
which is also from another reality. We can get into
that in a little bit. But I think that the
MCU people in there know a lot more than we do,
and I think we're just kind of overreacting with the
(22:41):
little amount of information we have and just kind of
go into this expecting to enjoy it. They rarely let
us down, and I don't think we're having any issues.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I do find it funny though, the timing of yeah,
the announcement after the whole deviln Wolverine, like, Oh, we're
returning to this grave.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Let's hope we don't defile the memory, and they're.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Like, oh, here's Fox killed him start again after he
died in an endgame.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Well, I do think, you know, if you take it
out of the story, which we'll have to get into
when we start talking about Doctor Doom, we can talk
about the story and how this could work with that
from a production like Studios Box Office movies perspective. I
think there's a couple of things that are going on
with this. I think that this is a hard reset
(23:34):
of the multiverse saga. That is, like, okay, we are
without saying Jonathan Major's is out, and we're pivoting away
from King Dynasty. We're telling you that's done, that's dead,
We're done. We're moving to Doctor Avengers Doomsday with the
bad villain of the of the Avengers movies going forward
is going to be Doctor Doom, and that's going to
be important. So I think that that's what we take
(23:55):
away from it. From that perspective, I do think that
also this says to everybody that's got enough you know
that understand, like, are are willing to be honest about
what's happened with the MCU. This is a hail Mary. Yeah.
(24:16):
For the end it is this is we have to
fix this, and we have to fix it quick, and
the best way to do that is to get Robert
Downey Junior back into this story. Because this is going
to change the story, the narrative going forward. People are
going to be excited about it. It has backfired to
some extent, which is why I also think they chose
(24:37):
to get out in front of it this soon, like
get this out there, give people literally years to absorb
this reality is what's going to happen before these movies
come out, so that they can process it. And then
going back to Deadpool Wolverene, which we really haven't talked
(24:57):
about in this episode, we did in our previous episode completely.
But I think that the whole reason that they did
the Chris Evans make you think it's Captain America Steve
Rodgers pivot to Johnny Storm from the Fantastic Four was
(25:20):
to establish in canon MCU, Marvel Studios, Cannon that the
same actor can be playing two different characters that are
major characters and it and it be like, you have
to accept this.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I don't think it's the same though, because we had
already seen him in those two roles previously, and it's
not in the same universe.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, I'm not saying we're in the same universe yet,
I'm saying that what happens if at some point in
the future, a multiversal thing took place where Johnny Storm
had to come over into six one six or Steve
Rogers went over into the other universe, and you then
have some challenges, right because because hey, you've got incursion
things potent well, and I don't know, you don't have incursions.
(26:09):
There are different characters, but they look the same, and
that's been established in the MCU now, and so I
think that that's a big moment with this.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
It is. And I from the little I know of
Victor von Doom from the comics, he has a very
rich backstory and a lot that he's done, and I
think you can pretty much call him one of the
top three most powerful villains in the Marvel universe. He's crazy.
(26:40):
I mean, you have the powers of doctor Strange, who
is the Massili with the intelligence of basically read Richards
and Tony Stark combined, and then the evil of Dano's
and then you bring in a vendetta against Mephisto and
fighting him consistently.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Pray to God that they bring in Mephisto just so
we can have that moment in the MCU finally, finally, Yeah,
So you bring in all of these things with Victor
von Doom, and I know that one part in the
comics when he makes his mask and his suit and
all that stuff in his backstory, it is mentioned firmly,
and I think it's a pretty big part of Doctor Doom,
and it's something that I don't think the rest of
(27:25):
the Fantastic Four adaptations have really gotten. Is when he
makes that mask, he calls it his his new skin,
and that he'll never take that mask off again. I
and you bring that into this part of the MCU
and you're thinking about it, of Okay, well, if this
if RDIJ is playing Victor von Doom, and you have
(27:46):
him pretty much already established his doom, he shouldn't take
off the mask. But then why do you cast Arty
J in this role?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Some little kind of side note, but also sort of related.
I saw this post.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
It's like, what if Doctor Doom's mask is a version
or looks very similar to the Mark One helmet mask
from because they look almost very similar in a lot
of ways. If you just tweak it a little bit,
I think that would be a really cool touch.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And I think that we could be seeing this. There's
a reason they cast already J in this role, just
from everything that we've gotten evidence from, and I really
believe that you'll be seeing a lot of ties to
and respect to the original Victor von Doom, while also
bringing in this what I'd assume at this point is
(28:40):
a Tony Stark variant, and I feel like it's one
of those Tony Stark variants that kind of had that
one bad day problem and switched because we've seen what
happens if Tony could lose control. I mean, you think
about it, Tron He's powerful, I mean, and he's passed
and driven. And a personal theory I have is, maybe
(29:05):
we see a Tony Stark without a Pepper Potts, because
I feel like Pepper was always the center for Tony,
the moral company, the thing that kept him grounded, the
thing that made him become Iron Man in the first place,
was Pepper. And so if we see a Tony that say,
(29:30):
beginning forty five minutes of Iron Man still happens, but
without a Pepper Potts, he's just a vengeful, rageful man
that has a lot of money and is super smart.
So you bring that into a world that granted, we
can assume that this Victor von Doom is most likely
(29:52):
going to come from the other universe, that the Fantastic
Four coming from that will be brought into the six
one six, and we've already had confirmed that that's set
kind of in the nineteen sixties, but also a futuristic
retro city. So there's already differences in that world and
with technology that we aren't sure how that's going to
(30:12):
be brought in.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Right, it's a retro universe, it's set in the sixties,
but the technology is at the highest level. It's like
twenty twenties. Yeah, it's nose, it's sixties six level. Yeah,
it's crazy, if not higher than that. So we're seeing
a what we could assume, a vengeful, rageful Tony Stark
who could just be considered a doctor Doom now or
(30:37):
going by a different name alias Victor von Doom, that
has a lot of money, has a lot of time,
has a lot of passion, and is deciding with this
new technology to create the one thing that has been
fed to our RDJ during this entire thing. You can
(30:58):
tell it's been on all this social media posts. It's
what he said when he announced it. It was new mask,
same task. This is the same type of Tony Stark,
a Tony Stark that wanted to see, you know, the
suit of.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Armor around the world. But this is the Tony Stark
that made that vision, that dream a reality in the
wrong way. I feel like or he could have just
tested and it backfired on him. So maybe he's constantly
trapped now in a new suit. The thing is we're
theorizing off of something that we don't even know off.
(31:37):
But I would tell you what.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I think that that what we're going to see, Sam.
I hope this. There's two reasons that I struggled with this. One,
how do you have Tony Stark play or how do
you have our RDJ play Victor von Doom and it
be true to Victor von Doom which you talk about
(32:00):
backstory and he's an amazing story in himself, and he
deserves Victor von Doom deserves to be Victor Vaughan do
in the in the Marvel universe in the future. And
so then it diminishes that part of us if you
have Tony Stark's variant doing this, and then at the
same time it diminishes you know, the or It just
(32:23):
it just creates a challenge for me to see Tony
Stark in that role. So what I Sam, what I
think is going to happen with this. I hope this helps.
Since I've come to a little bit better terms with
this entire idea as a result of this is you're
going to get a Tony Stark variant from the Fantastic
four timeline with it who very much what you just described, Nate,
(32:47):
He's gone way over the dive a new Rock Stars
Airpross has this theory that remember in a Lokey season
two you had Victor Timely, who was king who was
back in your like the World's Fair back in the
eighteen nineties or something like that, and releasing tech, creating
crazy technology. His theory is in the Fantastic four timeline
(33:08):
that that's actually not Victor Timely Timely that does that.
That's Howard Stark in like a for whatever reason, it
happens earlier in the timeline that Howard Stark's out there
doing this, and so that's what's moving technology forward like this,
and then his son something happens with Tony and that's
what creates this version of Tony Stark and all this,
(33:30):
and it's going to be a Tony Stark. I don't
think that we see his face for a large of this.
I think it's allow us to see a Doctor Doom
with the mask being the evil guy, get to the
point where you're used to it. But then in the
back of your head, you know that that's already that's
Tony's face underneath that. And then somehow, probably at the
(33:52):
end of Avengers Doomsday, you're going to see this moment
where it's probably Peter Parker now he's going to end
up unmasking Doctor Doom, and it's going to be Tony,
and the whole thing is going to like, we're going
to all lose our freaking crap at that moment, and
then they're going to have to deal with fighting what
they see as Tony in this thing. But it's going
(34:15):
to be a multiverse version of that, and I think
that that's going to be be the way that this ends.
I think it's important for us to also it's pretty
much being accepted that the end of Secret Wars of
Intersecret Wars is going to be a complete hard reboot
reset of everything in the Marvel Universe, where you're gonna
(34:37):
get new actors, new stories, new characters, all of this,
very much like in the comic book world where they
do this kind of thing. I think it needs that too,
and they're going to allow you then to bring in
a classic Victor von Doom origin story so that that
story gets to be played out with that. How would
you feel if it's played out more that way?
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, I think that's the.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Best way to handle it, Like you mentioned, and you know,
you need to give the respect to both characters, and
I think the way that you mentioned that is probably
going to be the best way.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
To do it. I would love if we got a
little When does the Fantastic four movie come out.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Next year the same day as Superman? I don't think
they're gonna be able to keep that release going to happen.
They haven't started filming.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
But I would love, ah, Doctor doom Tees or something
in Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
We've got a Galactis team.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
That was cool.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
That was really.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Finally comic accurate glack.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
It's not just a giant cloud like it was a
Fantastic four Rise of Silver Surfer.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
What was it with superhero movies being afraid of being
superhero movies?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Studio interference? But I'm excited to see I know we're
getting Victor von du Yeah, he's going to be It's
going to be a post credit scene, especially since nobody knew,
like like Jeremy rennerd the og Avengers didn't even know
that r DJ was coming.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Back.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
But the director of Fantastic Four does why why is that?
Why is that important? So I yeah, he knows he's
being in there. It's just that's probably why they waited
to start filming so late. And so, yeah, we're super
excited to see this. I'm very excited to see what
happens with the MCU and Doctor Doom. But and I
fear nothing. We'll see what other people say and what
(36:13):
happens in the coming years. All right, Well, that was
fun talking about what do we needed to get that? Yeah,
I was. I would say I'm excited for it. But
is the path to the dark Side if you're not familiar,
if you're trying to make sure you keep it up
with us. Our weekly release schedule is Monday. We talk
about what we're excited about. On Monday, we talked about Deadpool, Wulverine.
(36:36):
It's just kind of a fun little conversation.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I have a feeling based on we saw Trap.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, we did see Trap the.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Other day, Sam, you're seeing it today. Yep. It might
be fun to talk about that.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Do or do not?
Speaker 3 (36:48):
There is no Trap?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, we might have something to talk about with that.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
That'd be fun.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, it would be fun. Wednesday is New Comic Book Day.
Of course, as you're listening to this, it's kind of
just like, what are some of the big comics coming
out and what we're reading, and then some comic topics
that we have. It's been easy this week. Most weeks
it's it's a bit difficult, but it was super simple
this week. And then Friday, we have our monthly series.
This month it's The Acolyte, and we are talking about
(37:13):
the story coming up on Friday and so that it's
a ton of fun. But please follow us on substack.
We have in depth exploration and just community engagement and
weekly recaps and all that stuff. And we're trying to
reach that one hundred subscriber goals, so that would be great.
But is there anything else y'all want to say? May
the Force be with you, May the Force be with you.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
May be with you all. Wait, this party's over.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
With me.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Please
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