September 23, 2025 • 36 mins
TribCast talks with Washington correspondent Gabby Birenbaum about how redistricting and retirements are set to reshape the state's representation in D.C.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
This week's episode of the Tribecast is brought to you
by the members of the Texas Tribune.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Our Fall member drive is happening now.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We need five hundred Texans to make a first time
donation to the Texas Tribune. Become a member today at
Texastribune dot org slash donate. Hello and welcome to this
week's episode of the Tribecast for Tuesday, September twenty third.
(00:33):
I'm Eleanor klibanoff Law and politics reporter at the Texas Tribune.
I am solo today in the studio, at least, sitting
up here all by my lonesome. Matthew is away, but
joined in spirit and over zoom by one of the greats,
the Texas Tribune Washington correspondent, Gabby Beerenbaum.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Gabby, how are you.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm good, one of the greats. I was going for
Rookie of the Year. Yeah, I just started, but I'll
take it.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Two things can be true, two things can be true.
So as of well, we're actually taking this on Monday,
so as of today, but as of yesterday when you're
listening to this, we are officially into fall, which is
exciting because it is my favorite season and also exciting
because it's a season of change, of old things falling
(01:24):
away to make way for new opportunities, which brings us
to our topic of the week, the changing face of
Texas's congressional delegation. I'll be honest, I do better with
the segues and setups when I have someone else in
the studio. But you know, Gabby, we invite you Wanta because
we really do want to talk about it. We've had
(01:44):
this sort of flurry of news over the summer, whether
it's redistricting or campaign announcements or retirement announcements, especially recently,
that seem likely to sort of reshape Texas's representation in
Washington DC. And you know, a lot of this is
sort of slow moving targets in that a lot of
(02:05):
this won't actually go into affection until, you know, uh,
twenty twenty seven, if we're being you know, realistically, once
after the twenty twenty sixth election. But it is a
huge deal because both for Texas, like how we're represented
in DC, but also for the country we have this
very outsized influence in DC, or like to think we
do at least, So let's start there.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I mean, can you talk a little.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Bit of just about like Texas's delegation in Congress sort
of the state of the delegation and the role it
plays more broadly.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, so Texas.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
There are thirty eight members in the House from Texas,
and the vast majority are Republicans, so right now twenty
five and so historically, what the Texas Republican you know,
conference has wanted, they can they have lunch every week.
They can then take that to the broader Republican conference.
And because they speak with such a large voice, they
can really sort of set the agenda for House Republicans
when they're unified and when they have you know, they
(03:01):
have a big voice in the room by quantity, but
some of that also depends on right who's speaking. And
I think in the last few cycles we've seen a
lot of the sort of heavy hitters of the Texas
delegation who had been committee chairs. You know, Kevin Brady
from the Houston area was the longtime chair of Ways
and Means. Kay Granger from Fort Worth was the chair
of Appropriations. Some really longtime members retired either in the
(03:24):
first Trump administration or the Biden administration, and so a
lot of the members these days are in their first
second third term, and while there are definitely some strivers
and some ambitious people, I think the Texas delegation in
general doesn't have.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
The clout it once had on the Republican side.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
And I think that's going to be even more compounded
because we already have some high profile retirements coming in
the next election cycle.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I mean that is interesting, like when unified very powerful,
when there's disunity. I mean, what are sort of the
factions that we see now broadly speaking?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I mean, does it is just sort of reflective.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Of the factions we just see in Congress are playing
out in the Texas donation.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I mean, I think I think there's two things going on.
I think, like one, there's people talk about like the
Five Families. It's very mafia esque of the of House Republicans,
and so that ranges from the Problem Solvers Caucus, which
is like a bipartisan group of moderates, to the Freedom Caucus,
which is like the most right wing, you know, really
fiscal hawks that often are thorn in the side of
leadership and Texas. You know, there's Republicans in all five families, right,
(04:28):
So that's part of it. But also, like I mentioned,
a lot of it is just the lack of seniority.
And there's very few members these days who have been
there pre you know, pre Trump one, honestly, and I
think in a more somewhat civil time when there was
more bipartisanship in Congress, and so a lot of a
lot of the newer members, I think just don't have
that experience of needing to work with the other party
(04:51):
to get things done, sort of keeping the temperature down
a bit. And so, you know what what gets you are,
you know what bolsters your reputation in Congress these days.
And I just talked about this with Congressman McCall who's
one of the members who's retiring. Is not necessarily what
it was in his day when he came into the bush.
Ere you know, it's a lot more. I think a
lot of older members would say now it's a lot
more about getting on TV or you know, getting earned
(05:12):
media and all that, and less about legislating. And so
I think that's also part of the dynamic of the
Texas delegation. You've got people with like different levels of
interest in legislation versus sort of attention. Not that they're
always mutually exclusive, but I think that's what some of
the older members might say.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right, right, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Let's talk about Congressman McCall, who you had a fantastic
story on him last week. He you know, represented Central Texas,
a Central Texas district for twenty two years, and he
announced he will be retiring. I mean, who is Congressman
McCall's or what does he represent at this point?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Yeah, I think Carson McCall.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
They call him Chairman, amereta McCall because they shared two
big pities, homeland security and foreign affairs. He's you know,
a bit from a different era. He came to Congress
during the Bush era, he told me, And he ran
his first campaign in two thousand and four on a
platform of counter terrorism like very you know, very relevant
in the four election and not as much anymore. His
(06:13):
background was in counter terrorism work, and he you know,
chaired the Homeland Security Committee during the Boston bombings. Then
he chaired Foreign Affairs during the Biden administration for those
last two years, and so he was sort of the
Republican shadow.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Secretary of State people called him in that time.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
But like from a much more you know, neo conservative,
Reagan esque era of Republican politics. You know, he's a
very big Ukraine hawk. He's this huge support of Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel,
just a believer in like American American, you know, interest
in the global sphere and like participating much less so
(06:50):
than I think a lot of the isolationism in America
first rhetoric and policy that you see out of the
Trump administration somewhat and certainly out of a lot of
members of Congress now. And so I think he's really
been like a voice trying to keep the party engaged
in global affairs. But he sort of turned out of
leading committees anymore.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
He's one of the longest.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Tenure members from Texas, and so he told me he
felt like it was time to time to move on.
He had a good quote about you either die in office, lose,
get indicted, or you.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Can leave with dignity. So he wanted to do the
last one.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
But yeah, he's sort of a towering figure I think
in the in the party, among House Republicans and then
also in Texas politics, and so that's going to be
a huge, like sort of wealth of knowledge. I think
about how Congress works and how the legislative process works,
and you know as someone who's been to you know,
tons of countries and met tons of foreign leaders over
the years, and so that that's going to be just
(07:45):
a big sort of wealth of knowledge in the delegation
that'll be gone come twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, I thought, like your story really, in addition to
capturing sort of his you know, decision to leave, it
does really reflect like this change in Republican priorities. I
mean when we think about maybe talked about this on
here before, but I a couple months ago went to
the George W. Bush Presidential Library at SMU, and it
(08:10):
was so interesting. It was like right when they were talking,
the Trump administration was talking about all these like global
aid cuts, and it was so interesting just to see
like the Bush administration's priority on like PEPFAR and these programs,
and thinking like if we're going to do this sort
of you know, these political goals or these you know,
if we're going to sort of charge into these other countries,
(08:32):
like we also should be pouring money into global aid
and other things like that, and like those are just
so different than the conversations we're having.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Absolutely, and McCall is like a huge i think believer
in like that former Bush era global consensus, and then
I mean we had interest in a conversation he told
me understands like the sort of younger person's frustration with
forever wars and that like people have people who grew
up in the Afghanistana Rock era have a different perspective
than him who grew up during the Cold War. But
I think he said he's going to continue to kind
(09:01):
of speak out just from outside of Congress for like
the sort of yeah American interest in aid and intervention
in those things. But yeah, it's I think it's been
an increasingly lonely path in Congress for him.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Than it used to be, right, Yeah, I mean it's
just interesting when we you know, there's been so much
talk and we're going to probably talk about this a
little bit with Lloyd Doggett, but like there's been so
much talk about, you know, when is the right time
for older members to leave, and like a lot of
condemnation particularly well, I guess I would say on both
sides about like overstaying age wise, but yeah, there is
(09:37):
obviously you know, something lost when it's like everyone's sort
of new and younger.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's what they balanced and
McCall's only in his sixties.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
I mean, I was like your sprint chicken.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
For right, Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, he's not leaving in a wheelchair, yeah right, right, right,
But yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It's all It'll be interesting to see what happens there.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, another Central Texas Republican potent giving up his seat
to run for a different office. Not retiring, but Chip Roy,
who has announced he will be running for attorney Texas
Attorney General.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
A really different character.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Than McCall in a lot of ways, although they are
sort of from the same general region of the state.
Can you talk a little bit about Chip Roy and
who he is and what he represents to.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, the So Chip Roy has you know, been all
over in Texas politics. He worked for Senator Cruz, he
was his chief of staff during cruise his like first
few years in the Senate. Then he went on to
work for Paxton at the beginning of Paxson's ten years age,
and they sort of parted. You would know more than
me about this, but parted on bad terms. And so, yeah,
(10:41):
Roy in Congress has been I think a sort of
chief mischief maker for Republican leadership. He's someone they all,
you know, when they're trying to pass a major bill,
they always have to negotiate with him. He's the policy
chair of the Freedom Caucus, which I mentioned is the
sort of big fiscal hawk, you know, farthest right caucus.
So his big thing in Congress has been cutting spending.
(11:03):
And so he's you know, very active in the media,
is very.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Well known to journalists on the Hill.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, if you're if the Freedom Coucus is acting
up and trying to shut down legislation or freeze the floor,
like he's he's, you know, the best guy to go
to and learn what's going on in most cases. He's
got a really you know, great policy brand and can
talk through a lot of issues. But yeah, he he
is someone I don't I don't know that House leadership
will miss all that must all that much because he's, uh,
(11:30):
he's They've had to negotiate with him.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
All the time over various things. But yeah, he's running
for Attorney General.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
So that'll open up his seat, which is like Hill country,
central Texas area, uh, Austin to San Antonio. And so
there's already a bunch of Republicans looking at that seat,
including Mark to Shia, former former Ranger and Yankee baseball player.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, you know, we've got a couple celebrities in the
mix on for different seats, which is fun for name
recognition at least.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I mean Roy obviously entering like a very crowded attorney
general race, although I think some polling shows like he
definitely has the highest name recognition among the candidates. So yeah,
I mean, do you sort of read anything in the
tea leaves of that of like deciding to run for
AG versus staying in the house where he has been
sort of I think someone intentionally like a frustrating character. Yeah, yeah,
(12:27):
I mean I think he he talked about I think
like wanting to be spend more time in Texas than
in DC, which is like a common lawmaker complaint I
think about about Congress A B. He's a lawyer, he's
you know, a really I think he really thinks, thinks
through things with a legal mind. I have to imagine
this is an office that he's been looking at, especially
(12:48):
because I mentioned he worked for Pacston and that's an
office he's familiar with. So and you know, he has,
like he said, high name idea I think is something
that he rightfully thinks he can win, just given what
we've seen from early.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
But yeah, I mean I think a.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Lot of members of Congress, and you know, we can
talk about Morgan Latrell in the eighth district outside of
Houston is also leaving after two terms. I think for
a lot of people, it can be a pretty frustrating place.
And I think for you know, and you see this
across all fifty states, a lot of people I think
come to Congress and then leave wanting a job actually
in their state where they feel like they can make
(13:23):
more of an impact and not just being one of
four hundred and thirty five.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, and I mean I think Roy almost sort of
said that where he was like, you know, this isn't
really a job you should do forever, right, Like I
think there's yeah, sort of the opposite of you know,
the McCall argument. Right, it's like, yes, you want people
to be tenured in experienced, and also like, what a
weird job.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
You probably shouldn't have it. You should probably cook your brain.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
A little smilar definitely hill creatures. And I think others come
and do it for a few terms. And Roy's been
there since he woned eighteen, so I guess that would
be this fourth term. But yeah, I think I think
a lot of people get very frustrated by the sort
of machinations of Congress, and it can be hard to
stand out.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I mean, I obviously, like like you said, I mean,
we're probably looking at a pretty crowded race for his seed.
I mean, similarly McCall, I mean, none of these seats
are like necessarily handed down to one clear like air
apparent anymore. But when you it feels like sort of
the common wisdom would be that, like someone like McCall
would be replaced by someone who's maybe more in the
(14:23):
mold of the modern conservative movement. Roy is sort of
a character unto himself. I mean, do you have any
sense of sort of like he leaves, someone else replaces him,
Like what that impact, Like, what what is that person
likely to be more conservative or just more of a
you know, obviously House leadership would prefer they be sort
of more march in line with the with the Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
It is hard realized such an interesting character, right, because yeah,
I mean he is like definitely one of the most
right wing conservative members of the House. At the same time,
like he was one of the only Republicans from Texas
who didn't sign on to like election challenges in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
So he's kind of an interesting guy.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think in a lot of
these cases, and I think we've seen just from like
younger members in Texas who have come in the last
few years, I think, yeah, they're much more in the
mold of like a trumpy America first type conservative, And
so I think that's also part of how the delegation
has changed over time to be more of a Republican
(15:20):
and Trump's image than the era that predated him. And
so yeah, we'll see who comes out of these seats,
but I wouldn't be surprised if if it ends up
being people who align more with like where the Republican
Party is in this moment in the White House.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Right we I want to talk about another major change
in Central Texas.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
But before we do that.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I do want to say this week's episode of the
Tribe Cast is brought to you by the members of
the Texas Tribune.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It is our fall membership drive.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
If you are not a member, we would love for
you to join our little family. You can become a
member at Texastribune dot org. Slash donate. You can also
go to our website. We've got donate buttons everywhere. If
you're subscribed to our newsletters, we're also pushing it there.
If you are donating, feel free to mention that you
love the trip cast. That is a very valuable feedback
(16:05):
to people who get to decide things like whether or
not we keep doing this, and feel free to say
you prefer you know which host you prefer and who
you'd like to see more or less of. Matthew's not
here to defend himself, so you know, write in how
much you like me?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Please do that.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, So let's talk about the other change in Central
Texas on the other side of the aisle, which is
a longtime Congressman Lloyd Doggett announcing he will retire instead
of challenging Greg Kassar for the newly redrawn district. You
did a lot of really great reporting on how that
decision came to be. But before that sort of what
(16:44):
did how did redistricting sort of pit them against each other?
And what was that looking like before we either of
them made a decision?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, I mean for years, Austin, in various iterations at
the Texas congressional map has been cracked so that they
could only be one Democrat representing it, and that was
Lloyd dog It. And then in twenty twenty one, I
think for the first time, you know, Austin has I
think the highest percent of Democratic voters of the you know,
major metro areas, and for the first time, I think
(17:12):
Republican map Jars were like all right, you know, we
see the writing on the wall, and they drew two
Austin based seats. So there was Doggets, which is sort
of West Austin, and then Kazars, which is more East
Austin and stretched down to San Antonio. Doggets was majority white,
Casars was majority people of color, so you know, sort
of differences there. But in the most recent redraw, the
(17:32):
mid decade redistricting that you and I have obviously like
spent the last several months reporting on, they went back
down to one.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
So they made a sort of dem super district in Austin.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
It's gonna be it was, you know, of the thirty eight,
the one that voted by Kamala Harris by by far
the biggest margin, there's going to be a seat that
you know, whoever takes that it could serve indefinitely.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
I think it's so long as they don't get into.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Any they don't go to night.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
I mean, who knows Nicole's right.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
List of ways to leave? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Right, So, and it was about, you know, the way
it was drawn. It was about two thirds of Dogget's
constituents and the rest were Kassar's constituents.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
I think there was some.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Question of who's going to run here. And Kassar's district
was redrawn to be you know, very few of his
current constituents and it's in the sort of San Antonio
area and suburbs much more conservative. Voted for Trump by
like ten points. So I think, you know, I know
that Doget's hope was that he would run in you know,
his old district, in the Austin district, and Kasar would,
you know, try to make a stand for Democrats in
(18:31):
a district that's going to be hard for them to win. Kassar,
who was on the Austin City Council, you know, it
was very much an Austin I was like, no, I'm
I'm going to be running in the new thirty seven,
the new Austin district. So there was a bit of
a shadow primary that played out between the two of them.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Doug gets sort of.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Swung first, and you know, put Out talked about it
on TV, put out a sort of email to supporters saying,
you know, my experience is worthwhile, and explicitly saying Kazar
should run in the New.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Thirty five instead.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Kasar behind the scenes sort of starting putting together you know,
polsters and endorsements and all types of things, and I
think dog it to his chagrin. I think it's pretty
clear he still wishes Kassar run in thirty five and
he would have stayed. But I think saw that it
was going to be a divisive primary at the very least,
(19:21):
that it was going to be hard fought. And he
still says, you know that he would have won, but
he feels like it wasn't worth, you know, dividing up
Austin and you know, turning into a potentially ugly primary.
And he is seventy eight, double check me on that,
so you know he's up there. Kasar is pretty young.
Kasar's thirty six. So he decided that if the maps
(19:42):
hold in court, that he will step aside and Kassar
can run and presumably win in the New thirty seven.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, it's an interesting case because I think on its face,
like if you don't follow politics that closely, you're it
fits into the narrative of like, you know, a young
and you know, very progressive person of color versus like
an older white man essentially.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But I mean they're both very progressive.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I mean I think they chair and co chair the
House Progressive Caucus.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Like, they're very politically aligned. I think on a lot
of things, this is not a I.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Mean, I guess in many ways it is old guard
new guard, just age wise, but it's like not a
huge policy split.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean Kasar is it's only on a second term.
He's definitely like a rising star. I think somebody would
say he's already the star artist Lady Rose. He's the
chair of the Progressive of the Caucus, dogget who's been
in Congress since the nineties. He's also in the Progressive Caucus.
I think he's a vice chair. So yeah, these are
two people who like ideologically are not that different. It's
just sort of stylistic. Yeah, I mean I think definitely
(20:49):
like the racial element would have played out in a
primary and that, you know, but I think the whole
thing was going to sort of force uncomfortable conversations about age,
especially because Lloyd Doggett was the first Democrat to call
on Joe Biden to not run after Biden's debate last
year against Trump, where you know, he really faltered. So
there was just a lot of a lot of issues
(21:10):
that Democrats are kind of dancing around or talking about
more like post Biden and figuring out what happened. I
think would have really come to the fore and already
did somewhat in that shadow primary. But yeah, it would
have exposed I think a lot of the tensions you know,
vibes wise and identity wise the Democrats have not so
much like.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Actually on policy right right, No, it's super interesting and
I mean interesting again, like just a lot of longevity
that's being lost on the smaller and soon to be
much smaller Democratic side of the of the delegation.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Really, I think both parties obviously, as we've talked about,
having a real reckoning about like age versus experience.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah, Dogget's been there.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
He's elected in ninety four, so I mean he's really
one of the I think he's the dean of the
Texas delegation he's like the longest serving member and you know,
really he's number two on Democrat on Ways and Means,
which is like the most powerful tax writing committee.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
So he it's interesting he you.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Know, was there for the era of liberal Texas, whereas
because so far, you know, was that's not a Texas
that he remembers. So it just would have been a
very interesting sort of It would have been a really
interesting primory on.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
That level too.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, I mean Lloyd Doggett, former Texas Supreme Court justice,
which now feels crazy to think when where the Texasupreme
Court stands.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Name house, when Democrats had a majority and all that.
I mean, yeah, he he came to Congress the year
that Anna Richards lost the governorship for Dems to never
reclaim it. So I mean the narrative staff would have
been would have been very juicy.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
So obviously we're also like just going to see and
we don't yet know what this will look like, but
we're going to see a lot of ripple effects from
this redistricting, a lot of Democrats potentially losing their seats
or having to run in like much tougher districts. Like
to look into the crystal ball, you know, for a
year and a half from now. I mean, what what
(23:04):
do you think the delegation ultimately will look like after
twenty twenty six, assuming these maps stay in effect and
sort of people do what they say they're going to do.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, I mean, it's really gonna cull the sort of
experience of the delegation in a lot of ways. So
I mean, of the longest tenured members, you've got Doggett,
who you know, assuming the map gets held up in court,
will be gone.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
You've got McCall who will be gone. Henry Kuoyar is.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Now redrawn into a district that I think he very
much still could win, but he you know, he could lose.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
It's now a Trump plus ten district.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
It was a Trump plus seven or you know, he's
still under incitement and you know, we'll see if that
goes to trial. But he's also he was also elected
in two thosand and four.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
One of the longest serving.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Members Pete's sessions in John Carter on their Republican side,
have been there for quite a while. But they're you know,
getting older, so we'll see how much longer they stay there.
Mark VC had a district that was targeted.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
He's been there for.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
A while, he could end up leaving Congress, and so
I think you're just going to see a delegation that
has much more junior members and you know, much fewer
people who have really experienced like Republican congresses, Democratic congresses,
different presidential administrations, like working with different people, have a
sort of set of issues that's changed over time, and
(24:18):
so like, I think some people will say, yeah, it's good,
like let's get these people who've been there forever, these
dinosaurs out.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Then I think some people would say.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
You know, this is experience that matters when you bring
into the legislative process and when you're trying to sort
of advocate for Texas specific priorities. But it's you know,
for sure, I think going to be a much younger,
much less experienced Texas.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Delegation, right and almost inevitably, I mean certainly much more
read right, like a little bit less yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Right right.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I mean we'll see if they win of those of
course you're on seats three, four or five, but I
think you know, everyone agrees are going to win at least.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Three, right, right, Yeah, it's going to be I mean,
it's just so interesting the long tail. I think there's
so much attention of course right now and redistricting and
well the MAS and how did they pass and the
corn break and all that, but it's like, you know,
people will win offices that they might hold for decades
as we've seen, you know, like this could really fundamentally
shift things, and like not even in good or bad ways,
(25:13):
just like in the boring ways that your representative you know,
gets stuff done for you in DC that has nothing
to do with politics, but it's like, no, that's.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Part of it.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I mean, it's really like a generational opportunity for ambitious
Republicans in the state because there's so many friendly seats
now open. I mean, big opportunity for Republican consultants too,
right somebody, But yeah, I mean there's you know, five
seats that could flip. There's three retirements. We'll see if
there's more. There's also two you know, big primaries Dan
(25:42):
Crenshaw and two in Houston and Tony Gonzalez and twenty
three along the border. You know that is those are
the potential to flip always. So yeah, there's just huge
opportunity for Republicans looking to break into federal politics in Texas.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, it's like like we think about like meticulous map
drawing and then it's just like a tornado ripping through
essentially not you know, just like all of these forces
combined as like a tornado ripping through the delegation in
a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, on the other piece of the delegation, we may
also see a change, which is with on the Senate side,
we've got a really contentious primary between John Cornyn and
you know, long time incumbent senator and current Texas Attorney
General Ken Paxton. We've talked about this race a lot
(26:32):
on this podcast, but you know, before we just even
get into that race at all, there is another thing
sort of hanging over this of you know, a member
on the House side who may we're hearing like maybe
would be interested in getting into this. There's been a
lot of rumblings about Wesley Hunt maybe getting into it,
another example of like youth versus experience and things like that.
(26:52):
I mean, where does that sort of stand. I know
he's been running some statewide ads and stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, I think it's probably coming down to decision time
for Wesley Hunt. For those who don't know, he's a
second term congressman from Houston area, like West Houston up
to like Tomball, and he was a big surrogate for
Trump during the campaign.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
He has been.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Sort of, you know, circling the waters of this Senate race.
He's got aligned groups that have been putting millions of
dollars into just trying to get his name idea up
I think statewide. And so his sort of I think
the case for him would be that Cornan is you know,
to quote unquote moderate, and like I hesitan to say
that because like again on policy, it's not like him
(27:34):
and Packson are radically different in terms of like what
their vote record would be. But Vibes was that Cornyn
can't win a primary and packs In is a liability
in general because of all his various ethical issues, and
that Hunt could sort of bridge the gap of being like,
you know, he satisfies the sort of MAGA base. You know,
he's very He was one of the first congressmen to
endorse Trump when he announced he was running for reelection
(27:55):
again in twenty two. But at the same time, he
doesn't have any you know, like allegations of affairs and
ethical issues and you know, all that all the stuff
that Paxton comes with. So that's the sort of argument
for Hunt. The question is like, is he well known
enough in the state to like counteract to politicians who
have been there, you know, Cornyn forever, right since since
(28:19):
he was attorney general and Paxton, who's also been attorney.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
General since what was it fourteen? Was ect in twenty fourteen?
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, right, yeah, so that'll be the question. He hasn't
gotten in yet, just you know, sort of circling, but
finally deadline in December, primaries in March, so I think
the time is fast approaching for him to make a decision,
and if he does get in, then that's another opening
in the Houston area in a Republican.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
State, right, Yeah, it's like everyone sort of watching for
everyone else to move to figure out what that opens up.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, he has an enormous musical chairs effect for like every.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Spent time of year.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, I mean right, I mean that Ray is obviously
so interesting and really a different narrative, different entirely in
the way that anytime Ken Paxton gets involved, it doesn't
map onto traditional like it's not age versus experience. Ken
Paxton is younger than John Cornyn, but is not pitching
as a young fresh face argument, but just you know,
(29:21):
really really opposed to John Cornyn, and you know Cornan
obviously spoke out during Paxton's attempted impeachment and things like that.
So that's a real bare knuckles fight that's almost like
separate from everything else happening in the in the.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Party, but have the same effect.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Right if Paxton words, which is like taking out one
of the longest tenured members of the delegation on the
Senate side, and just you know, it would be a
remaking of Texas Republicans in.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Congress for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I mean, you would have as your two senators Ken
Paxton and Ted Cruz, who are you know, both sort
of fire.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Brands in their own way. Would be very very interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, So I mean a period of major, major change.
It's like the only thing guaranteed is that it will
be different in about a year and a half. But
we are still currently all these people still have their
jobs that they have currently, and so just give us
a little preview of like what is coming. We're in
the middle, we're about to be We're in the middle
of a major political fight at the capitol, government shutdown
(30:25):
and things like that. What are the you know, what
are the things keeping the Texas delegation up at night? Right?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Now?
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Yeah, I mean I think government shutdown is a big one.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
So the government runs out of money on September third,
not third, government runs out of money at Stember thirtieth.
Otherwise we've already there, right, So if they do not
pass a funding built by then, which it doesn't look
like they are because they're out all this week and
when they come back, the love like two days to
figure it out, which seems unlikely, and Democrats are really
not in the mood I think, to sort of give
(30:56):
Republicans anything, including government funding. So it seems like we're
going to have to a shutdown, and I think it'll
be a sort of preview of what we'll see on
the campaign. Democrats are going to try to make this
about healthcare. There are these tax credits for ACA and
rolies that drive premiums down that are expiring at the
end of the year, and so Democrats will kind of
coalesced around an extension of those credits as like.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
A demand in exchange for government.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Funding, Whereas I think Republicans are, you know, trying to
say Democrats.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Cause this shutdown by not voting for our bills.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
We're trying to do the work of the American people,
you know, to fund the military, fund the border, x
y Z and so I think it'll be a bit
of a proxy war for the twenty six elections. That'll
be interesting once, if, and when a deal is eventually reached,
we'll see if the usual characters, you know, Chip Roy,
Michael Cloud, Keith Sealf members of the Freedom Caucus try
to stand in the.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Way of that. And then it'll also be interested to see.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
You know, last time this happened in the spring, no
House Democrats from Texas and I think almost none in
the entire caucus supported a funding bill, and it was
ten set Democratic senators who just you know, in a
change for nothing, basically voted with Republicans to keep the
government open. And there was huge anger at Chuck Schumer
over that. If people remember, I know it, there's so
(32:06):
much news a lifetime ago, go back to like a
few months ago. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see
at some point, you know, shutdowns have to end and
deals with to be reached. Typically and oftentimes like the
party that forces it doesn't necessarily get anything.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
I think that's been historically true. So we'll see, you know,
who folds and when.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
But if some of the Texas Democrats end up upset
with what their leadership negotiates, I could definitely see that
being a storyline as well.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Right, Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Certainly, like like you said, like, I mean, I feel
like this from covering redistricting here in the quorum break
and stuff, it is like inevitably all of this is
just hashing out and testing out arguments for what's going
to sort of sell to voters down the road. How
can you sell all of this, which in some degree
is your job, you know, what do your constituents want?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Who will send you?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Know? How can you give people what they want to
send you back? But it does seem to play out,
and you know, I think you know, Roberson McCall was
saying this of like just much more a little bit
meaner than it used to be and a little bit
more for like clicks and attention and TV which doesn't
(33:15):
lower the temperature on anything.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Ever.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yeah, certainly not.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, it'll be interesting and if, especially if it becomes
about these tax credits. There's such a big deal in
Texas because Texas never expanded MEDICID, so like the percentage
of people in the state who are ACA and rulies
is a lot higher than almost any other state. And
so I wonder if that puts Texas Republicans whore otherwise
opposed to you know, most federal spending, like in a
bind at all. So it'll be interesting to see how
the politics of.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
It play out, Right, Definitely I'm curious, I mean sort
of before that you go, you before coming to this
job covered the Nevada's congressional delegation.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Is that right? How how does it compare? Like what
are the is there? Obviously scale is part of it, I imagine.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Scale is huge.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
And Nevada had four House members and two senators, and
there were five Democrats almost all like very polished. They
all run in you know, the two senators obviously as
a swing state, and then the three Dems are all
in like battleground districts. So they're all very careful, pretty moderate,
pretty measured. And then the one Republican from up north
was just a character who but you know, almost always
(34:19):
put with leadership, never caused problems really for Republicans. And
so it's a much broader range of like types of
Republicans for me, certainly, like by quantity, but also by
what they're interested in. And Yeah, going from the swing
state to a red state has also been just like
a different set of set of issues and things people
care about. And seeing the I think, like the Republican
(34:43):
infighting that happens, especially like you and other people have
reported Rinzo right, like at the state party level and
things like that is super interesting to me, just because,
like coming from Nevada, like both the Democratic and Republicans
I think try as much as they could to like
tamp down dissent because they're so focused on just getting
the fifty. And so it's a different, different set of
(35:03):
challenges that the parties face in Texas, which I'm learning
about every day and is really interesting to me.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, much more unruly bunch, which I guess anytime you've
got more people, it's you know, more personalities.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Well, really appreciate you sort of going through all that
with us. If you want to read more about the
DC shenanigans, you can find all of Gabby's reporting at
Texastribune dot org. As we said before, this week's episode
of the trib Cast is brought to you by you,
the members of the Texas Tribune Our Fall Member drive
is happening now. We need five hundred Texans to make
(35:37):
a first time donation. Become a member today at Texastribune
dot org slash donate, Write and how much you love
the Trib Cast and make sure you tune in next week.
Our producers are Rob and Chris. You can get the
podcast anywhere you find your podcast or on YouTube and
we will see you right before government shutdown.
This week's episode of the Tribecast is brought to you
by the members of the Texas Tribune.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Our Fall member drive is happening now.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We need five hundred Texans to make a first time
donation to the Texas Tribune. Become a member today at
Texastribune dot org slash donate. Hello and welcome to this
week's episode of the Tribecast for Tuesday, September twenty third.
(00:33):
I'm Eleanor klibanoff Law and politics reporter at the Texas Tribune.
I am solo today in the studio, at least, sitting
up here all by my lonesome. Matthew is away, but
joined in spirit and over zoom by one of the greats,
the Texas Tribune Washington correspondent, Gabby Beerenbaum.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Gabby, how are you.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm good, one of the greats. I was going for
Rookie of the Year. Yeah, I just started, but I'll
take it.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Two things can be true, two things can be true.
So as of well, we're actually taking this on Monday,
so as of today, but as of yesterday when you're
listening to this, we are officially into fall, which is
exciting because it is my favorite season and also exciting
because it's a season of change, of old things falling
(01:24):
away to make way for new opportunities, which brings us
to our topic of the week, the changing face of
Texas's congressional delegation. I'll be honest, I do better with
the segues and setups when I have someone else in
the studio. But you know, Gabby, we invite you Wanta because
we really do want to talk about it. We've had
(01:44):
this sort of flurry of news over the summer, whether
it's redistricting or campaign announcements or retirement announcements, especially recently,
that seem likely to sort of reshape Texas's representation in
Washington DC. And you know, a lot of this is
sort of slow moving targets in that a lot of
(02:05):
this won't actually go into affection until, you know, uh,
twenty twenty seven, if we're being you know, realistically, once
after the twenty twenty sixth election. But it is a
huge deal because both for Texas, like how we're represented
in DC, but also for the country we have this
very outsized influence in DC, or like to think we
do at least, So let's start there.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I mean, can you talk a little.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Bit of just about like Texas's delegation in Congress sort
of the state of the delegation and the role it
plays more broadly.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, so Texas.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
There are thirty eight members in the House from Texas,
and the vast majority are Republicans, so right now twenty
five and so historically, what the Texas Republican you know,
conference has wanted, they can they have lunch every week.
They can then take that to the broader Republican conference.
And because they speak with such a large voice, they
can really sort of set the agenda for House Republicans
when they're unified and when they have you know, they
(03:01):
have a big voice in the room by quantity, but
some of that also depends on right who's speaking. And
I think in the last few cycles we've seen a
lot of the sort of heavy hitters of the Texas
delegation who had been committee chairs. You know, Kevin Brady
from the Houston area was the longtime chair of Ways
and Means. Kay Granger from Fort Worth was the chair
of Appropriations. Some really longtime members retired either in the
(03:24):
first Trump administration or the Biden administration, and so a
lot of the members these days are in their first
second third term, and while there are definitely some strivers
and some ambitious people, I think the Texas delegation in
general doesn't have.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
The clout it once had on the Republican side.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
And I think that's going to be even more compounded
because we already have some high profile retirements coming in
the next election cycle.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I mean that is interesting, like when unified very powerful,
when there's disunity. I mean, what are sort of the
factions that we see now broadly speaking?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I mean, does it is just sort of reflective.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Of the factions we just see in Congress are playing
out in the Texas donation.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I mean, I think I think there's two things going on.
I think, like one, there's people talk about like the
Five Families. It's very mafia esque of the of House Republicans,
and so that ranges from the Problem Solvers Caucus, which
is like a bipartisan group of moderates, to the Freedom Caucus,
which is like the most right wing, you know, really
fiscal hawks that often are thorn in the side of
leadership and Texas. You know, there's Republicans in all five families, right,
(04:28):
So that's part of it. But also, like I mentioned,
a lot of it is just the lack of seniority.
And there's very few members these days who have been
there pre you know, pre Trump one, honestly, and I
think in a more somewhat civil time when there was
more bipartisanship in Congress, and so a lot of a
lot of the newer members, I think just don't have
that experience of needing to work with the other party
(04:51):
to get things done, sort of keeping the temperature down
a bit. And so, you know what what gets you are,
you know what bolsters your reputation in Congress these days.
And I just talked about this with Congressman McCall who's
one of the members who's retiring. Is not necessarily what
it was in his day when he came into the bush.
Ere you know, it's a lot more. I think a
lot of older members would say now it's a lot
more about getting on TV or you know, getting earned
(05:12):
media and all that, and less about legislating. And so
I think that's also part of the dynamic of the
Texas delegation. You've got people with like different levels of
interest in legislation versus sort of attention. Not that they're
always mutually exclusive, but I think that's what some of
the older members might say.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right, right, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Let's talk about Congressman McCall, who you had a fantastic
story on him last week. He you know, represented Central Texas,
a Central Texas district for twenty two years, and he
announced he will be retiring. I mean, who is Congressman
McCall's or what does he represent at this point?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Yeah, I think Carson McCall.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
They call him Chairman, amereta McCall because they shared two
big pities, homeland security and foreign affairs. He's you know,
a bit from a different era. He came to Congress
during the Bush era, he told me, And he ran
his first campaign in two thousand and four on a
platform of counter terrorism like very you know, very relevant
in the four election and not as much anymore. His
(06:13):
background was in counter terrorism work, and he you know,
chaired the Homeland Security Committee during the Boston bombings. Then
he chaired Foreign Affairs during the Biden administration for those
last two years, and so he was sort of the
Republican shadow.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Secretary of State people called him in that time.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
But like from a much more you know, neo conservative,
Reagan esque era of Republican politics. You know, he's a
very big Ukraine hawk. He's this huge support of Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel,
just a believer in like American American, you know, interest
in the global sphere and like participating much less so
(06:50):
than I think a lot of the isolationism in America
first rhetoric and policy that you see out of the
Trump administration somewhat and certainly out of a lot of
members of Congress now. And so I think he's really
been like a voice trying to keep the party engaged
in global affairs. But he sort of turned out of
leading committees anymore.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
He's one of the longest.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Tenure members from Texas, and so he told me he
felt like it was time to time to move on.
He had a good quote about you either die in office, lose,
get indicted, or you.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Can leave with dignity. So he wanted to do the
last one.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
But yeah, he's sort of a towering figure I think
in the in the party, among House Republicans and then
also in Texas politics, and so that's going to be
a huge, like sort of wealth of knowledge. I think
about how Congress works and how the legislative process works,
and you know as someone who's been to you know,
tons of countries and met tons of foreign leaders over
the years, and so that that's going to be just
(07:45):
a big sort of wealth of knowledge in the delegation
that'll be gone come twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, I thought, like your story really, in addition to
capturing sort of his you know, decision to leave, it
does really reflect like this change in Republican priorities. I
mean when we think about maybe talked about this on
here before, but I a couple months ago went to
the George W. Bush Presidential Library at SMU, and it
(08:10):
was so interesting. It was like right when they were talking,
the Trump administration was talking about all these like global
aid cuts, and it was so interesting just to see
like the Bush administration's priority on like PEPFAR and these programs,
and thinking like if we're going to do this sort
of you know, these political goals or these you know,
if we're going to sort of charge into these other countries,
(08:32):
like we also should be pouring money into global aid
and other things like that, and like those are just
so different than the conversations we're having.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Absolutely, and McCall is like a huge i think believer
in like that former Bush era global consensus, and then
I mean we had interest in a conversation he told
me understands like the sort of younger person's frustration with
forever wars and that like people have people who grew
up in the Afghanistana Rock era have a different perspective
than him who grew up during the Cold War. But
I think he said he's going to continue to kind
(09:01):
of speak out just from outside of Congress for like
the sort of yeah American interest in aid and intervention
in those things. But yeah, it's I think it's been
an increasingly lonely path in Congress for him.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Than it used to be, right, Yeah, I mean it's
just interesting when we you know, there's been so much
talk and we're going to probably talk about this a
little bit with Lloyd Doggett, but like there's been so
much talk about, you know, when is the right time
for older members to leave, and like a lot of
condemnation particularly well, I guess I would say on both
sides about like overstaying age wise, but yeah, there is
(09:37):
obviously you know, something lost when it's like everyone's sort
of new and younger.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's what they balanced and
McCall's only in his sixties.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
I mean, I was like your sprint chicken.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
For right, Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, he's not leaving in a wheelchair, yeah right, right, right,
But yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It's all It'll be interesting to see what happens there.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, another Central Texas Republican potent giving up his seat
to run for a different office. Not retiring, but Chip Roy,
who has announced he will be running for attorney Texas
Attorney General.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
A really different character.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Than McCall in a lot of ways, although they are
sort of from the same general region of the state.
Can you talk a little bit about Chip Roy and
who he is and what he represents to.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, the So Chip Roy has you know, been all
over in Texas politics. He worked for Senator Cruz, he
was his chief of staff during cruise his like first
few years in the Senate. Then he went on to
work for Paxton at the beginning of Paxson's ten years age,
and they sort of parted. You would know more than
me about this, but parted on bad terms. And so, yeah,
(10:41):
Roy in Congress has been I think a sort of
chief mischief maker for Republican leadership. He's someone they all,
you know, when they're trying to pass a major bill,
they always have to negotiate with him. He's the policy
chair of the Freedom Caucus, which I mentioned is the
sort of big fiscal hawk, you know, farthest right caucus.
So his big thing in Congress has been cutting spending.
(11:03):
And so he's you know, very active in the media,
is very.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Well known to journalists on the Hill.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, if you're if the Freedom Coucus is acting
up and trying to shut down legislation or freeze the floor,
like he's he's, you know, the best guy to go
to and learn what's going on in most cases. He's
got a really you know, great policy brand and can
talk through a lot of issues. But yeah, he he
is someone I don't I don't know that House leadership
will miss all that must all that much because he's, uh,
(11:30):
he's They've had to negotiate with him.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
All the time over various things. But yeah, he's running
for Attorney General.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
So that'll open up his seat, which is like Hill country,
central Texas area, uh, Austin to San Antonio. And so
there's already a bunch of Republicans looking at that seat,
including Mark to Shia, former former Ranger and Yankee baseball player.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, you know, we've got a couple celebrities in the
mix on for different seats, which is fun for name
recognition at least.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I mean Roy obviously entering like a very crowded attorney
general race, although I think some polling shows like he
definitely has the highest name recognition among the candidates. So yeah,
I mean, do you sort of read anything in the
tea leaves of that of like deciding to run for
AG versus staying in the house where he has been
sort of I think someone intentionally like a frustrating character. Yeah, yeah,
(12:27):
I mean I think he he talked about I think
like wanting to be spend more time in Texas than
in DC, which is like a common lawmaker complaint I
think about about Congress A B. He's a lawyer, he's
you know, a really I think he really thinks, thinks
through things with a legal mind. I have to imagine
this is an office that he's been looking at, especially
(12:48):
because I mentioned he worked for Pacston and that's an
office he's familiar with. So and you know, he has,
like he said, high name idea I think is something
that he rightfully thinks he can win, just given what
we've seen from early.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
But yeah, I mean I think a.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Lot of members of Congress, and you know, we can
talk about Morgan Latrell in the eighth district outside of
Houston is also leaving after two terms. I think for
a lot of people, it can be a pretty frustrating place.
And I think for you know, and you see this
across all fifty states, a lot of people I think
come to Congress and then leave wanting a job actually
in their state where they feel like they can make
(13:23):
more of an impact and not just being one of
four hundred and thirty five.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, and I mean I think Roy almost sort of
said that where he was like, you know, this isn't
really a job you should do forever, right, Like I
think there's yeah, sort of the opposite of you know,
the McCall argument. Right, it's like, yes, you want people
to be tenured in experienced, and also like, what a
weird job.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
You probably shouldn't have it. You should probably cook your brain.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
A little smilar definitely hill creatures. And I think others come
and do it for a few terms. And Roy's been
there since he woned eighteen, so I guess that would
be this fourth term. But yeah, I think I think
a lot of people get very frustrated by the sort
of machinations of Congress, and it can be hard to
stand out.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I mean, I obviously, like like you said, I mean,
we're probably looking at a pretty crowded race for his seed.
I mean, similarly McCall, I mean, none of these seats
are like necessarily handed down to one clear like air
apparent anymore. But when you it feels like sort of
the common wisdom would be that, like someone like McCall
would be replaced by someone who's maybe more in the
(14:23):
mold of the modern conservative movement. Roy is sort of
a character unto himself. I mean, do you have any
sense of sort of like he leaves, someone else replaces him,
Like what that impact, Like, what what is that person
likely to be more conservative or just more of a
you know, obviously House leadership would prefer they be sort
of more march in line with the with the Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
It is hard realized such an interesting character, right, because yeah,
I mean he is like definitely one of the most
right wing conservative members of the House. At the same time,
like he was one of the only Republicans from Texas
who didn't sign on to like election challenges in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
So he's kind of an interesting guy.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think in a lot of
these cases, and I think we've seen just from like
younger members in Texas who have come in the last
few years, I think, yeah, they're much more in the
mold of like a trumpy America first type conservative, And
so I think that's also part of how the delegation
has changed over time to be more of a Republican
(15:20):
and Trump's image than the era that predated him. And
so yeah, we'll see who comes out of these seats,
but I wouldn't be surprised if if it ends up
being people who align more with like where the Republican
Party is in this moment in the White House.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Right we I want to talk about another major change
in Central Texas.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
But before we do that.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I do want to say this week's episode of the
Tribe Cast is brought to you by the members of
the Texas Tribune.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It is our fall membership drive.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
If you are not a member, we would love for
you to join our little family. You can become a
member at Texastribune dot org. Slash donate. You can also
go to our website. We've got donate buttons everywhere. If
you're subscribed to our newsletters, we're also pushing it there.
If you are donating, feel free to mention that you
love the trip cast. That is a very valuable feedback
(16:05):
to people who get to decide things like whether or
not we keep doing this, and feel free to say
you prefer you know which host you prefer and who
you'd like to see more or less of. Matthew's not
here to defend himself, so you know, write in how
much you like me?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Please do that.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, So let's talk about the other change in Central
Texas on the other side of the aisle, which is
a longtime Congressman Lloyd Doggett announcing he will retire instead
of challenging Greg Kassar for the newly redrawn district. You
did a lot of really great reporting on how that
decision came to be. But before that sort of what
(16:44):
did how did redistricting sort of pit them against each other?
And what was that looking like before we either of
them made a decision?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, I mean for years, Austin, in various iterations at
the Texas congressional map has been cracked so that they
could only be one Democrat representing it, and that was
Lloyd dog It. And then in twenty twenty one, I
think for the first time, you know, Austin has I
think the highest percent of Democratic voters of the you know,
major metro areas, and for the first time, I think
(17:12):
Republican map Jars were like all right, you know, we
see the writing on the wall, and they drew two
Austin based seats. So there was Doggets, which is sort
of West Austin, and then Kazars, which is more East
Austin and stretched down to San Antonio. Doggets was majority white,
Casars was majority people of color, so you know, sort
of differences there. But in the most recent redraw, the
(17:32):
mid decade redistricting that you and I have obviously like
spent the last several months reporting on, they went back
down to one.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
So they made a sort of dem super district in Austin.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
It's gonna be it was, you know, of the thirty eight,
the one that voted by Kamala Harris by by far
the biggest margin, there's going to be a seat that
you know, whoever takes that it could serve indefinitely.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
I think it's so long as they don't get into.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Any they don't go to night.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
I mean, who knows Nicole's right.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
List of ways to leave? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Right, So, and it was about, you know, the way
it was drawn. It was about two thirds of Dogget's
constituents and the rest were Kassar's constituents.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
I think there was some.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Question of who's going to run here. And Kassar's district
was redrawn to be you know, very few of his
current constituents and it's in the sort of San Antonio
area and suburbs much more conservative. Voted for Trump by
like ten points. So I think, you know, I know
that Doget's hope was that he would run in you know,
his old district, in the Austin district, and Kasar would,
you know, try to make a stand for Democrats in
(18:31):
a district that's going to be hard for them to win. Kassar,
who was on the Austin City Council, you know, it
was very much an Austin I was like, no, I'm
I'm going to be running in the new thirty seven,
the new Austin district. So there was a bit of
a shadow primary that played out between the two of them.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Doug gets sort of.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Swung first, and you know, put Out talked about it
on TV, put out a sort of email to supporters saying,
you know, my experience is worthwhile, and explicitly saying Kazar
should run in the New.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Thirty five instead.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Kasar behind the scenes sort of starting putting together you know,
polsters and endorsements and all types of things, and I
think dog it to his chagrin. I think it's pretty
clear he still wishes Kassar run in thirty five and
he would have stayed. But I think saw that it
was going to be a divisive primary at the very least,
(19:21):
that it was going to be hard fought. And he
still says, you know that he would have won, but
he feels like it wasn't worth, you know, dividing up
Austin and you know, turning into a potentially ugly primary.
And he is seventy eight, double check me on that,
so you know he's up there. Kasar is pretty young.
Kasar's thirty six. So he decided that if the maps
(19:42):
hold in court, that he will step aside and Kassar
can run and presumably win in the New thirty seven.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, it's an interesting case because I think on its face,
like if you don't follow politics that closely, you're it
fits into the narrative of like, you know, a young
and you know, very progressive person of color versus like
an older white man essentially.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But I mean they're both very progressive.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I mean I think they chair and co chair the
House Progressive Caucus.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Like, they're very politically aligned. I think on a lot
of things, this is not a I.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Mean, I guess in many ways it is old guard
new guard, just age wise, but it's like not a
huge policy split.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean Kasar is it's only on a second term.
He's definitely like a rising star. I think somebody would
say he's already the star artist Lady Rose. He's the
chair of the Progressive of the Caucus, dogget who's been
in Congress since the nineties. He's also in the Progressive Caucus.
I think he's a vice chair. So yeah, these are
two people who like ideologically are not that different. It's
just sort of stylistic. Yeah, I mean I think definitely
(20:49):
like the racial element would have played out in a
primary and that, you know, but I think the whole
thing was going to sort of force uncomfortable conversations about age,
especially because Lloyd Doggett was the first Democrat to call
on Joe Biden to not run after Biden's debate last
year against Trump, where you know, he really faltered. So
there was just a lot of a lot of issues
(21:10):
that Democrats are kind of dancing around or talking about
more like post Biden and figuring out what happened. I
think would have really come to the fore and already
did somewhat in that shadow primary. But yeah, it would
have exposed I think a lot of the tensions you know,
vibes wise and identity wise the Democrats have not so
much like.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Actually on policy right right, No, it's super interesting and
I mean interesting again, like just a lot of longevity
that's being lost on the smaller and soon to be
much smaller Democratic side of the of the delegation.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Really, I think both parties obviously, as we've talked about,
having a real reckoning about like age versus experience.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah, Dogget's been there.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
He's elected in ninety four, so I mean he's really
one of the I think he's the dean of the
Texas delegation he's like the longest serving member and you know,
really he's number two on Democrat on Ways and Means,
which is like the most powerful tax writing committee.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
So he it's interesting he you.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Know, was there for the era of liberal Texas, whereas
because so far, you know, was that's not a Texas
that he remembers. So it just would have been a
very interesting sort of It would have been a really
interesting primory on.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
That level too.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, I mean Lloyd Doggett, former Texas Supreme Court justice,
which now feels crazy to think when where the Texasupreme
Court stands.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Name house, when Democrats had a majority and all that.
I mean, yeah, he he came to Congress the year
that Anna Richards lost the governorship for Dems to never
reclaim it. So I mean the narrative staff would have
been would have been very juicy.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
So obviously we're also like just going to see and
we don't yet know what this will look like, but
we're going to see a lot of ripple effects from
this redistricting, a lot of Democrats potentially losing their seats
or having to run in like much tougher districts. Like
to look into the crystal ball, you know, for a
year and a half from now. I mean, what what
(23:04):
do you think the delegation ultimately will look like after
twenty twenty six, assuming these maps stay in effect and
sort of people do what they say they're going to do.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, I mean, it's really gonna cull the sort of
experience of the delegation in a lot of ways. So
I mean, of the longest tenured members, you've got Doggett,
who you know, assuming the map gets held up in court,
will be gone.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
You've got McCall who will be gone. Henry Kuoyar is.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Now redrawn into a district that I think he very
much still could win, but he you know, he could lose.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
It's now a Trump plus ten district.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
It was a Trump plus seven or you know, he's
still under incitement and you know, we'll see if that
goes to trial. But he's also he was also elected
in two thosand and four.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
One of the longest serving.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Members Pete's sessions in John Carter on their Republican side,
have been there for quite a while. But they're you know,
getting older, so we'll see how much longer they stay there.
Mark VC had a district that was targeted.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
He's been there for.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
A while, he could end up leaving Congress, and so
I think you're just going to see a delegation that
has much more junior members and you know, much fewer
people who have really experienced like Republican congresses, Democratic congresses,
different presidential administrations, like working with different people, have a
sort of set of issues that's changed over time, and
(24:18):
so like, I think some people will say, yeah, it's good,
like let's get these people who've been there forever, these
dinosaurs out.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Then I think some people would say.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
You know, this is experience that matters when you bring
into the legislative process and when you're trying to sort
of advocate for Texas specific priorities. But it's you know,
for sure, I think going to be a much younger,
much less experienced Texas.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Delegation, right and almost inevitably, I mean certainly much more
read right, like a little bit less yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Right right.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I mean we'll see if they win of those of
course you're on seats three, four or five, but I
think you know, everyone agrees are going to win at least.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Three, right, right, Yeah, it's going to be I mean,
it's just so interesting the long tail. I think there's
so much attention of course right now and redistricting and
well the MAS and how did they pass and the
corn break and all that, but it's like, you know,
people will win offices that they might hold for decades
as we've seen, you know, like this could really fundamentally
shift things, and like not even in good or bad ways,
(25:13):
just like in the boring ways that your representative you know,
gets stuff done for you in DC that has nothing
to do with politics, but it's like, no, that's.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Part of it.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I mean, it's really like a generational opportunity for ambitious
Republicans in the state because there's so many friendly seats
now open. I mean, big opportunity for Republican consultants too,
right somebody, But yeah, I mean there's you know, five
seats that could flip. There's three retirements. We'll see if
there's more. There's also two you know, big primaries Dan
(25:42):
Crenshaw and two in Houston and Tony Gonzalez and twenty
three along the border. You know that is those are
the potential to flip always. So yeah, there's just huge
opportunity for Republicans looking to break into federal politics in Texas.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, it's like like we think about like meticulous map
drawing and then it's just like a tornado ripping through
essentially not you know, just like all of these forces
combined as like a tornado ripping through the delegation in
a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, on the other piece of the delegation, we may
also see a change, which is with on the Senate side,
we've got a really contentious primary between John Cornyn and
you know, long time incumbent senator and current Texas Attorney
General Ken Paxton. We've talked about this race a lot
(26:32):
on this podcast, but you know, before we just even
get into that race at all, there is another thing
sort of hanging over this of you know, a member
on the House side who may we're hearing like maybe
would be interested in getting into this. There's been a
lot of rumblings about Wesley Hunt maybe getting into it,
another example of like youth versus experience and things like that.
(26:52):
I mean, where does that sort of stand. I know
he's been running some statewide ads and stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, I think it's probably coming down to decision time
for Wesley Hunt. For those who don't know, he's a
second term congressman from Houston area, like West Houston up
to like Tomball, and he was a big surrogate for
Trump during the campaign.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
He has been.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Sort of, you know, circling the waters of this Senate race.
He's got aligned groups that have been putting millions of
dollars into just trying to get his name idea up
I think statewide. And so his sort of I think
the case for him would be that Cornan is you know,
to quote unquote moderate, and like I hesitan to say
that because like again on policy, it's not like him
(27:34):
and Packson are radically different in terms of like what
their vote record would be. But Vibes was that Cornyn
can't win a primary and packs In is a liability
in general because of all his various ethical issues, and
that Hunt could sort of bridge the gap of being like,
you know, he satisfies the sort of MAGA base. You know,
he's very He was one of the first congressmen to
endorse Trump when he announced he was running for reelection
(27:55):
again in twenty two. But at the same time, he
doesn't have any you know, like allegations of affairs and
ethical issues and you know, all that all the stuff
that Paxton comes with. So that's the sort of argument
for Hunt. The question is like, is he well known
enough in the state to like counteract to politicians who
have been there, you know, Cornyn forever, right since since
(28:19):
he was attorney general and Paxton, who's also been attorney.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
General since what was it fourteen? Was ect in twenty fourteen?
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, right, yeah, so that'll be the question. He hasn't
gotten in yet, just you know, sort of circling, but
finally deadline in December, primaries in March, so I think
the time is fast approaching for him to make a decision,
and if he does get in, then that's another opening
in the Houston area in a Republican.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
State, right, Yeah, it's like everyone sort of watching for
everyone else to move to figure out what that opens up.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, he has an enormous musical chairs effect for like every.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Spent time of year.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, I mean right, I mean that Ray is obviously
so interesting and really a different narrative, different entirely in
the way that anytime Ken Paxton gets involved, it doesn't
map onto traditional like it's not age versus experience. Ken
Paxton is younger than John Cornyn, but is not pitching
as a young fresh face argument, but just you know,
(29:21):
really really opposed to John Cornyn, and you know Cornan
obviously spoke out during Paxton's attempted impeachment and things like that.
So that's a real bare knuckles fight that's almost like
separate from everything else happening in the in the.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Party, but have the same effect.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Right if Paxton words, which is like taking out one
of the longest tenured members of the delegation on the
Senate side, and just you know, it would be a
remaking of Texas Republicans in.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Congress for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I mean, you would have as your two senators Ken
Paxton and Ted Cruz, who are you know, both sort
of fire.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Brands in their own way. Would be very very interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, So I mean a period of major, major change.
It's like the only thing guaranteed is that it will
be different in about a year and a half. But
we are still currently all these people still have their
jobs that they have currently, and so just give us
a little preview of like what is coming. We're in
the middle, we're about to be We're in the middle
of a major political fight at the capitol, government shutdown
(30:25):
and things like that. What are the you know, what
are the things keeping the Texas delegation up at night? Right?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Now?
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Yeah, I mean I think government shutdown is a big one.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
So the government runs out of money on September third,
not third, government runs out of money at Stember thirtieth.
Otherwise we've already there, right, So if they do not
pass a funding built by then, which it doesn't look
like they are because they're out all this week and
when they come back, the love like two days to
figure it out, which seems unlikely, and Democrats are really
not in the mood I think, to sort of give
(30:56):
Republicans anything, including government funding. So it seems like we're
going to have to a shutdown, and I think it'll
be a sort of preview of what we'll see on
the campaign. Democrats are going to try to make this
about healthcare. There are these tax credits for ACA and
rolies that drive premiums down that are expiring at the
end of the year, and so Democrats will kind of
coalesced around an extension of those credits as like.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
A demand in exchange for government.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Funding, Whereas I think Republicans are, you know, trying to
say Democrats.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Cause this shutdown by not voting for our bills.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
We're trying to do the work of the American people,
you know, to fund the military, fund the border, x
y Z and so I think it'll be a bit
of a proxy war for the twenty six elections. That'll
be interesting once, if, and when a deal is eventually reached,
we'll see if the usual characters, you know, Chip Roy,
Michael Cloud, Keith Sealf members of the Freedom Caucus try
to stand in the.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Way of that. And then it'll also be interested to see.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
You know, last time this happened in the spring, no
House Democrats from Texas and I think almost none in
the entire caucus supported a funding bill, and it was
ten set Democratic senators who just you know, in a
change for nothing, basically voted with Republicans to keep the
government open. And there was huge anger at Chuck Schumer
over that. If people remember, I know it, there's so
(32:06):
much news a lifetime ago, go back to like a
few months ago. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see
at some point, you know, shutdowns have to end and
deals with to be reached. Typically and oftentimes like the
party that forces it doesn't necessarily get anything.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
I think that's been historically true. So we'll see, you know,
who folds and when.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
But if some of the Texas Democrats end up upset
with what their leadership negotiates, I could definitely see that
being a storyline as well.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Right, Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Certainly, like like you said, like, I mean, I feel
like this from covering redistricting here in the quorum break
and stuff, it is like inevitably all of this is
just hashing out and testing out arguments for what's going
to sort of sell to voters down the road. How
can you sell all of this, which in some degree
is your job, you know, what do your constituents want?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Who will send you?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Know? How can you give people what they want to
send you back? But it does seem to play out,
and you know, I think you know, Roberson McCall was
saying this of like just much more a little bit
meaner than it used to be and a little bit
more for like clicks and attention and TV which doesn't
(33:15):
lower the temperature on anything.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Ever.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yeah, certainly not.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, it'll be interesting and if, especially if it becomes
about these tax credits. There's such a big deal in
Texas because Texas never expanded MEDICID, so like the percentage
of people in the state who are ACA and rulies
is a lot higher than almost any other state. And
so I wonder if that puts Texas Republicans whore otherwise
opposed to you know, most federal spending, like in a
bind at all. So it'll be interesting to see how
the politics of.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
It play out, Right, Definitely I'm curious, I mean sort
of before that you go, you before coming to this
job covered the Nevada's congressional delegation.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Is that right? How how does it compare? Like what
are the is there? Obviously scale is part of it, I imagine.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Scale is huge.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
And Nevada had four House members and two senators, and
there were five Democrats almost all like very polished. They
all run in you know, the two senators obviously as
a swing state, and then the three Dems are all
in like battleground districts. So they're all very careful, pretty moderate,
pretty measured. And then the one Republican from up north
was just a character who but you know, almost always
(34:19):
put with leadership, never caused problems really for Republicans. And
so it's a much broader range of like types of
Republicans for me, certainly, like by quantity, but also by
what they're interested in. And Yeah, going from the swing
state to a red state has also been just like
a different set of set of issues and things people
care about. And seeing the I think, like the Republican
(34:43):
infighting that happens, especially like you and other people have
reported Rinzo right, like at the state party level and
things like that is super interesting to me, just because,
like coming from Nevada, like both the Democratic and Republicans
I think try as much as they could to like
tamp down dissent because they're so focused on just getting
the fifty. And so it's a different, different set of
(35:03):
challenges that the parties face in Texas, which I'm learning
about every day and is really interesting to me.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, much more unruly bunch, which I guess anytime you've
got more people, it's you know, more personalities.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Well, really appreciate you sort of going through all that
with us. If you want to read more about the
DC shenanigans, you can find all of Gabby's reporting at
Texastribune dot org. As we said before, this week's episode
of the trib Cast is brought to you by you,
the members of the Texas Tribune Our Fall Member drive
is happening now. We need five hundred Texans to make
(35:37):
a first time donation. Become a member today at Texastribune
dot org slash donate, Write and how much you love
the Trib Cast and make sure you tune in next week.
Our producers are Rob and Chris. You can get the
podcast anywhere you find your podcast or on YouTube and
we will see you right before government shutdown.
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.