July 29, 2025 • 28 mins
In this engaging and insight-rich episode of That Will Nevr Work, Maurice Chism sits down with marketing strategist and experience designer Saffana Monajed to explore the evolving world of social media marketing—and why it’s no longer just about posts and promotions.
Saffana dives into the difference between content that looks good and content that feels good—because in today’s world, brands that create experiences, not just noise, win. Together, they unpack how to use social media as a tool for community, storytelling, and long-term brand building.
Whether you’re building your presence or managing a growing platform, this episode will help you shift from tactics to strategy that resonates.
🎧 Tune in and learn how to turn your marketing into something people actually want to engage with.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/saffana-monajed/
https://www.saffana.co.uk/
Saffana dives into the difference between content that looks good and content that feels good—because in today’s world, brands that create experiences, not just noise, win. Together, they unpack how to use social media as a tool for community, storytelling, and long-term brand building.
Whether you’re building your presence or managing a growing platform, this episode will help you shift from tactics to strategy that resonates.
🎧 Tune in and learn how to turn your marketing into something people actually want to engage with.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/saffana-monajed/
https://www.saffana.co.uk/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I thank you very much for tuning in to that
Will Never Work podcast. So what if marketing wasn't about
shouting screaming at your audience, but about creating experiences people
want to talk about? So today I have the sensational Sofana,
and she's going to break down how to turn your
(00:23):
social media into a place of connection, community, and real
brand growth. We'll talk about it right after this.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Educate, empower enable impact. Thank you for tuning in to
that Will Never Work, an award winning podcast where we
share inspiring information and personal experiences related to business and
the entrepreneurial journey from those who are leaders in their
respective field. Now here's your host, author and business coach, Maurice.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Oh, we're gonna jump right into it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Of course, you can read her bio in the link
that I provide in the show notes. You can look
at all her other content, all the fabulous podcast he's
already been on. So I know a lot about this
young lady right here. But we're gonna, well, we're gonna
talk about Sophana. If you can't answer this question in
(01:22):
a world of constant content, how do you stand out?
But by showing more more or by showing more meaningfully. So,
so am I posting more or should I show up
more meaningfully for my content?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I mean for my audience.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I think that's a really good question. The answer is
not hard and fast, but I want to say it's
not the Your quantity will never win if it's not
rooted in earnestness. That's the biggest takeaway I've seen, and
that's the trend that we're moving towards. So if you
(02:03):
think about all social media as like a variety of
house parties that are always ongoing, right, If you kind
of think about it like that, different house parties different vibes,
and there's like different corners of places having different conversations.
Some of them are about gaming, some of them are
(02:24):
about like how to cook the best meal for your family,
some of them are about wait, whatever the people are
interested in, you're gonna kind of find your gang. But
the people that, let's say, if we're dominating or being
present in that conversation and standing out quote unquote in
that house party, they're never going to be the loudest.
They're just going to be the people that the people
can connect to the most. They're not going to be
(02:44):
the people who are like shouting over everyone. They're not
like I will hear you, but I will not necessarily
connect with you. So the moment I think we start
humanizing that experience a little bit more of like what
it's like to actually scroll through your phone, that's what
people moving towards is like, if I met you, could
I be your friend? And if you look at people's
(03:05):
comments who post a lot, or maybe who don't post
that much, you'll see people's comments now going towards more
that of like, oh, I'd love to be your friend.
It's fantastic. And those are the people that are winning.
Those are the brands quote unquote or the the accounts
that are growing the most, the ones that are just
kind of being the most sincere, being like this is
(03:27):
what I've got, this is what I've got in the
house party. I'm here for a little bit, so I'm
gonna have fun and I hope business resonates. I hope
that's helpful.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
It is.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
But you know, it's funny that you call it a
house party because there are some people that like to
just stand up against the wall and watch right, and
then there are some that wants to be the life
of the party and want to show out in front
of everybody. So how do you differentiate that too, because
sometimes people could be too too passive by staying up
(03:57):
against the wall, but way too aggressive. Hey, I want
to be the life of the party. I want to
dance in the middle of everybody. I want to dance
a dance battle, whoever is the next challenger?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
All that type of stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So how do I know how to stay neutral and
still touch everybody that's in their party.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
I think the first question you have to ask is
why do you want to touch a run in that party?
That's the first That's the first question i'd ask you
as a human. It's like is it worth it for you?
If it's really worth it, then yeah, get up on
a table and dance, like if that's honestly what you're into.
But know that that's a divisive move, Like if that's
what you're into, like your apple or whatever, maybe the move.
But most of us are not a brand, where like
a we are a human. So even if you have
(04:39):
something you want to sell, sometimes it's really worth understanding
who it is you want to talk to and going
into your truth. The one thing that is like the
fail safe that I've never seen change you to trends,
you who technology is, to the truth that is you,
and then understanding how that is helpful or beneficial for
(05:01):
the audience, not for you necessarily, but you'll root it
in your truth, but just in your audience, Like what
can I actually add value into your lives? And it
may just be that you're funny and lots of people
will flock towards to you. It may be that you
bake the best cakes and people flock to Like, there's
loads of ways to be sincerely yourself and create the
impact you want in reality that won't take away from
(05:22):
I guess the earnestness of the human experience. I feel
like that it's the bit that's like not spoken about,
like yeah we can build brand, Yeah we can, Yeah
we can like shout the loudest, but if that's not you,
I don't want to. That's why the whole thing of
like you said in the very beginning of like what
does it take for marketing to not be like the
(05:43):
rah rah the circus?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
And the truth is lean back into your humanity because
that's what we're gonna want to flock towards. That's the
way I'm seeing it, and that's what I've seen at
work for most of my clients, brands that I've worked with,
et cetera. Isn't your truth? And if it's from dancing
on the table, dance on the table, baby, But if
it's not, like, get off the table. Stop telling people
about what it's like to be a mama ful like
(06:07):
you know what I mean? And you could be both.
You could be both, but just do the thing that
is most honest for you.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
But see, I know someone like myself, I'm not a
dance on a table type person. I can go and
talk to a person to person though, introduce myself things
like that. Sometimes I see those individuals that are dancing
on the table might be trying to overcompensate for something
(06:35):
else that like they're lacking something else, whether it's some
type of substance. Do I really understand my product right
as a business owner? Do I really have something to offer?
What is my selling point? Whatever it is?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
You know? So, how do we.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Understand ourselves in a genuine sense that you keep referring to?
How do I make sure that I'm genuine in those
dealings or my business or whatever it might be.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
From a human sense, Because these two things are gonna overlap.
But human sense, I feel like we've all gone to
parties where we're gonna shouldn't have done that, right, I
didn't like the way that I acted, even though really,
really and truly like within ourselves we were like, oh
I didn't. I wasn't a fan of the way I
(07:22):
conducted myself. That's the human element, right. Business it's the same.
So in business and with brands that I've worked with,
they will sometimes put something out that is on trend,
on whatever, and they reflect and be like, that really
wasn't on brand, Like we and the way that manifests
in numbers and in whatever's like, yeah, we got views,
but we absolutely did not get click throughs. We did
not get conversions. Everyone who converted us for a refund
(07:45):
and all of that stuff will have to make you
reflect on the way that you presented yourself as a brand,
the way that you showed up in the world. Right,
So it's both of those two things are the same.
It's like maybe you made a friend that night, but
it wasn't a friend you needed, Like if it wasn't
a friend that's gonna have your back, it was just
kind of someone who thought that was you and that
was because that was the the you know, the foot
you put forward in the And the other instance is
(08:06):
like you say, what is it that I genuinely have
that I can provide that other people maybe don't do
as well as me. And a lot of the time
that's going into your truth. So on a human scale,
that's what that is. If I was to give you
a really good example of like one of a recent
client that I worked with was actually like an angio
slash charity, and when I was speaking to them, they
(08:29):
were like, what we do is we try and improve
the lives of kids from what they called underprivileged backgrounds.
I was like, fabulous. They're like, but we never say
kids from underprivileged backgrounds. We say we want to challenge
kids to be the best that they can be. And
I said fabulous. And then the more we spoke, the
more they were like, yeah, but we only work in
our borough and sometimes we're embarrassed to say we only
(08:52):
work in this borough. And I said, okay, well, what's
the repercussions of holding that truth back? You're like, sometimes
people from other boroughs come and I'm like, do you
want that? And then they're like, not necessarily because we
really believe that if we help our borough, our borough
can help other boroughs and then they can help themselves,
to which I said, there's honestly going to be fabulous
(09:13):
repercussions if you specify now, because you'll grow faster, you'll
exclude faster, and then therefore your your template will be
able to be followed by other burroughs. That's exactly what happens.
Just say the whole truth, like say the truth as
it is a lot of the times, that's what's gonna
get you the exact people you need. So sometimes the
(09:34):
thing that you're hiding or you perceive that hiding will
get you a good thing out of it. Sometimes that
is the exact thing you need to unlock your fastest
way to success. And a lot of the times that's
the most honest thing.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And so as I'm listening to you, there's a few
things that come to mind. So sometimes we need to
implement a ab testing space, right, you know, we're trying
to look at maybe if we do this type of
marketing here versus this type of marketing there, so we
can understand, you know, which one can bring in the
(10:08):
type of clients that we're looking for. Because sometimes we
don't know exactly where they might be hiding, right, And
so how important would it be for us to implement
that type of testing just to kind of get outside
of our box for a hot second.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
I think it's very important, but I have to point
out that that's an incremental win rather than a major win.
So depending on where you are in the journey, it
could be just you, because I think when we say
A B testing is for people who are quite mature
in their approach to things, right, So the people who
are speaking who we're speaking to, we're the ones who
are like those are the ones who are saying, I've
got a good base. But actually my suspicion is I
(10:46):
would get more, I would get marginal benefit out being
here versus where I am now. Then I would say
your best better is an A B test, because what
you don't want to do is your own to lose
out on what you've got. Now, if what you is working,
your AB test is the best bet, right, and then
what if your be is the one let's going to
outdo your course? You iterate, But I think I want
(11:09):
to say just two things about A B testing, which
if you see me on any podcast, I will always say,
listen to your A B tests or don't do them,
like I've seen so many people just do A B
tests for the sake of doing A B tests. Like
if the B wins, use the B and then optimize
the B. Don't keep doing the same or doing a variety.
Like it's a real scientific environment, do you know what
(11:29):
I mean? Like sometimes I'm like, why did you do that?
But yeah, listen to the AB. Please just listen to
the science if you're going to go down the science room.
But yeah, if you want incremental wins a B wah
like fabulous, say I suspect this, I suspect that, But
have a really really good understanding, basic understanding of your
audience first. I'm always for audience first, audience aness what's
the ven diagram? Where does your audience and your organization
(11:51):
live that perfect men diagram. Once you've got that, that's
where you can begin with the playground of editing and tweaking,
et cetera. But before that, it's recommend So.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And I brought that up because you hear a lot
of that right now about testing and just trying to
try and fix some things. But and I brought that
up because sometimes we're not always honest about who our
real audience is because we don't have that true feedback loop.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
We don't understand how important that really is.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So so how do we ensure that we are getting
to the people that we really need to, especially those
that we really want to help, especially if we don't
understand what that loop really is.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah, that's such a That is such a good question, Maurice.
It's such a good question because I feel like if
people asked it more, we would have just a better universe.
There's so many ways to get to know your audience,
and the first one is just like speak to them.
That's the first thing. Like if someone is a customer,
if someone buys your stuff, if someone listens to your stuff,
just speak to them. Just be like, what is it
(12:52):
that you want to what value did that ad? Did
you like this? I'm thinking of doing this without add value?
And like, the more you do that, don't take one
person's word for it, but the more you do that,
the more you understand who is in the room that
you are currently speaking in or that you found something.
So first and foremost, go to the source. Always go
(13:13):
to the source. If you can, if you haven't been
able to go to the source yet. Look at what
your competitors are doing and who is in their rooms.
And the way that you could do that is, let's
say you have this podcast. You know that other people
listen to a similar podcast. Go into those comments of
those YouTube videos and just be like, what are they
talking about? What do they like? What are the things
that they highlighted from that thing? How can I add
value and speak to those concerns. There's this really fabulous
(13:37):
method that people use to write copy and to create
a product, like reverse engineer product market fit, and it
is if you figure out who the kind of audience
is that you want to serve, imagine that you are them,
and then write down all the concerns that they would
have if you can't speak to them directly. This is
an imagination project right where you go. I want to
service people who are starting a small business. I don't
(14:00):
know how to start usmall business. I don't know if
I should leave my job, I don't know how I
do a side hustle and all of this, and then
you just kind of create to leave your company without
losing your money, and then you kind of reverse engineer it.
So that you are speaking to their concerns. And the
(14:21):
more you do that, the more fruitful I think you
will find every interaction if that's the kind of way
that you want to show up in the universe.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, so audience first, I understand the audience first. But
your answer was so simplistic. There are a lot of us.
It might be too it might be too simple of
just talking to the audience.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I don't know what you want from me, then simple
and wins, simple wins. I listen. So I'm Middle East
in and there's this thing that they say in the
add least of like sometimes you'll ask people where where
they're ears and they will say here, and you're like, baby,
you could have just said this like so, so yes,
it's simple, then I dare you to do it and
(15:07):
then talk.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
To me.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Again.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
It's a fana because and I'm saying it because sometimes
we look at other people, right, and we weren't, like
you said, look at our competitors or whatever else, and
we think that they have a team of thirty five
people right trying to you know, create this environment, and
you're just using something as simple as hey, Safana, how
(15:31):
are you today?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Did you like the content that I provided.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, so if we're looking at that, okay, So
then again I would say, if we're going to I'm
going to draw from the thing I said in the beginning.
Your main strength is what you have to offer right now.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
You're honest.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Truth. So this person who's got thirty five people on
the ground doing things whatever it is that we imagine
that they have at their disposal, they likely started where
you started. But the huge superpower you have is that
you can actually you don't have such a big audience
that you're lost and you need to cater to hundreds
of thousands. You have twenty people who are engaged, and
you're trying to find twenty more. Your best bet is
(16:10):
to speak to those people, and then if those people
like you, they will tell more people about you, especially
if you ask them so. And I'm saying this out
of like I've done this, so I'm not speaking rubbish.
I'm telling you this is the stuff that works. The
superpower we have when we're small is that we can
speak to our people in a much more sincere way
(16:32):
where we say, listen, man, I'm just doing this because
I think this will be helpful. If I would you,
I would find very helpful, and if it's not helpful,
this is your role to tell me. Because I have
the capacity right now to read what you're about to
say and then act on it. The thirty five plus
employee person doesn't have that luxury. So if you want
to leverage that, this is the way you would leverage
(16:54):
that to get your growth faster. If that does not
convince you, then here is the other way to do it.
You're going to get twenty people in a room. You're
going to think, no, I want fifty thousand, and then
you're going to look at the person who's doing generic content,
and then you're going to stab in the dark, and
these twenty people are going to lose interest because that's
not what got them there in the first place. So
you're going to be doing but maybe discontent, maybe this content,
(17:17):
and your best bet is going to be to start
with this and find more of these people. SaaS products
do this, and so do content creators. It's the same thing.
Once you find good product market fit, what you want
to do is you want to get others into this.
You want to find more of this because that's your
core audience, and then you can fan out. But unless
you've dominated that niche. It's a strange many things you're
(17:39):
trying to pick up, and then you know tailor to
which is very messy, so not ernest, and you're also
not you won't do I think what you think you'll do.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So again, you're making it too simple, So fan I mean,
and I'm saying, is because you're recommending that I stay
the same throughout the whole process, don't change, you know,
because a lot again, when we look at social media,
we're influenced, right, we see what they're doing, we see
(18:11):
what our competitors doing. We may take a real quick
look at their numbers and say, oh wow, they're doing
thirty thousand downloads a month, because that's where I want
my podcast to be. But I'm only doing fifty, you know,
So how do I grow into that? Because of well,
I think that's given out the same type of content.
(18:33):
I want thirty. I want the sponsorships, I want all
these type of things. So it's my fifty people as
just as important as those thirty thousand, And how do.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I stay myself in that space?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Especially if I'm looking to the hills, I'm looking at
the what my sky could possibly be?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I would say this very practically. If we're going to
go like, okay, if we want to do some hard work,
the people who've currently got thirty thousand downloads, I would say,
go back to their content when they only had fifty downloads.
Go back to their content and see what they did.
And if, Maurice, you're going to tell me that they
(19:14):
actually did a crazy amount of wild stuff, all different
and then all of a sudden there was a spike,
then I would say, follow that template, that's what you want.
But my bet, my hunch is what you're going to
find is a steady increase over time and then that
exponential growth. But that steady increase came with the almost boring,
(19:35):
monotonous I'm going to do this thing for this audience
until until I get critical mass, because that's how it grows.
It doesn't go like this necessarily, you'll go like this
and then pull it will kick off at one point, right,
because that's the compounding effect of social So you have
to do what you're This is also, by the way,
so I want to say two things. That's what I think.
(19:56):
You just have to ensure that your product is good,
because if it's not good, no one's going to even
if twenty people can't, you're they're gonna churn and they're
not gonna So make sure your product is actually good
like the value that you're providing, you smash it out
the park every time. Here's my value statement. It's the
same as you predicted, because there's this nice reassurance of like,
what you want from me is what I'm going to
deliver every time. It's the same time, same place, and
(20:18):
I'm gonna give you the same amount of fantastic quality
every time, so that you're gonna want to turn up
next time. Otherwise you're gonna be dealing with churn, which
is not what we want to deal with. So first
and foremost, you want to do that. Second of all,
this is I think the third or fourth time Maurice,
you've mentioned. But when you look at other people, right,
if we're going to be doing shiny object syndrome, which
is what that is, you won't win. I'm gonna make
(20:41):
it very simple, you won't win. There's never gonna be
an object so dull. No matter how much you're shining,
there's never gonna be an object that's not dull to you.
So you either are content with what it is you're
doing and happy that the route that you're you're enjoying
the journey of going Okay, fabulus, we're going to get
to this thing, or you're gonna be doing shiny objects
(21:03):
in drums like maybe I'll try this, maybe i'll try that,
maybe I'll try And if you do that, you won't.
You won't. I don't believe someone's done that and succeeded,
not in the brick and mortar, not in the SaaS,
not in the product, not in the service, in not
even in sport. It's not going to be a guy
who was like I tried basketball, then football, and then
when I did one term of ice hockey, I was
(21:23):
a champion. It's not That's not going to be the
way it goes. It's going to be like I did
hockey for fifty years, right right, and now I'm in
the championships, Like that's a lot of the times, that's
the way it's going to go.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
And I'm gonna tell you the reason why I keep
bringing up because a lot of my listeners are in
that space where it, yeah, so caught up what everybody
else is doing. But my under outlining message is be
happy with what you see in the mirror, right, you know,
understand who that person is when you look back in
that mirror. It's like, all right, yeah, I might have
a little frown lines and you know, maybe some you
(21:58):
know lines with my forehead because I'm you know, upset
or whatever it is, but still be understand that, Hey,
who I am in that mirror I'm proud of and
that even though if I have those fifty people, we're
cultivating a community.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
You know people, right, I definitely agree with that. Don't
compare thing I think of joy. I think that's what
they say. Ah, And it's not just the thief of joy.
Sometimes it's the thief of just like self assurance. And
(22:37):
so if you're going to be doing the game where
you're comparing yourself a lot, I think genuinely, just be
prepared to lose and lose a lot more than you think.
And I say this is as honestly and earnestly as
I can. Yeah, I think one of the most poisonous
things you could do. And people blame social media, but
we compared before, like social media is just that like
(22:59):
on steroids, right, it's not. It's not for those who
want joy in this world anyways. It's I don't think
comparisons for those who want joy in this world. Honestly,
I'm being honest, like I just like, if you do
want to compare, then compare. But I'm telling you now
it's it's not gonna be the way that you're gonna grow.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Wow. So it's to find out.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I mean, we can go on for about another two
hours when it's to be honest, right, So, but I
would like to know where can people talk to you
and get a little bit more confident who they are
and what they provide, no matter what audience that they
already have, how to cultivate them, how to nourish them,
how to mature it, you know, grow it.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So where can they find out more information and talk
to you about this?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
You can always find me on my website. So if
you contact me via my website, which is just my
name Fan s A f f A n A dot
co dot UK. Because I'm me, I'm also the only
managed in the world. So it's I always say, if
you don't find me, it's on purpose and you always
(24:08):
reach out to me. So whether that's like through professional works.
So mostly what I do is I help engiers which
are non government organizations, specifically charities a lot of the
time to get really clear on how it is they
help so that they can help more people. That's something
I'm always really really big on. But I do help
scale ups and starts. So if you want to do that,
(24:29):
if you always want to figure out your audience and
perfect your copy so that it's really like going to
speak to your truth and the truth of others and resonate, well,
always reach out to me as a fan at Cody UK.
If you want to learn how to do that completely
for free, just find me on TikTok and I just
tell people how to write copy and how to read
media and advertising so that they're very aware of the
(24:52):
powers that be and how they're alluding us to kind
of try and find temporary joy and relief in places
that it never will exist.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
So again, Safana, simplicity, right, you said, I'm the one
and only and finally just by my name, so you know,
and I think that's something that we need to keep.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
In mind, that we are a one and only.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
We don't have to be duplicated, we don't have to
copy somebody else, just standing in who we are. So
I appreciate you showing that and there being a real
life example of that to be honest.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Experience, This is all I've got.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
But but you know, before we go, I got one
more question of Safana, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna
knock this question out the park. It is my would
you rather question? And I asked it to everybody. Would
you rather choose three doors or a fourking road?
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Now?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Use your imagination, hold on three doors or a fork
in the road.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Yes, yes, three doors.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
You mean hypothetical doors that open up to unknown situations,
and I just have.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
To pick one whatever your imagination comes up with.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
A fork in the road means I'm there, and then
I can go left or right.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
You can fly it, use your imagination. There is no
box road.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I'm gonna I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go fork
in the road.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
And why to fork?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
I'm going to do fork? Yeah, I'm going to fork
in the road.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
And why would you do a fork in the road.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I'm a runner and that's the thing I'm mostly faced
with and I'm trying to perfect being so happy with
whatever place I've picked. M that's the way I do it.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So like just we're gonna piggyback off of that, did
you ever run on your birthday?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
That's so good. Keep you're doing your research. Yeah, I'm
gonna run thirty three miles for my next birthday.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Nice, I told you, I did. I listen.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I listen, you really did. That's a phenomenal answer. That's honestly,
that's that's phenomenous. That's really good. Yeah, I'm gonna run
tace three miles for my next birthday, one for every year,
and and it's gonna be painful, and it's gonna be glorious.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Good.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I mean, we all got to push ourselves, right, we
all have to look for the next challenge.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Or whatever it is. We're always evolving, even in this
simplest form.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Absolutely, And then the words of my friends doing hard
things makes me build self confidence. It shows me that
hard things are within my reach.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Wow, there's there's nothing else to say after that final
I mean, that's a mic drop.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Well, I think very much for coming on the show today.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Thank you so much for having me race. It's been
a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Sure, no problem, And of course all us the finest
information will be in the show notes and I will
talk to you just.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
A little bit later.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Thanks for listening. Follow Maurice Chisholm on social media to
stay connected and check back weekly for new episodes until
next time. That will never work, or will it
I thank you very much for tuning in to that
Will Never Work podcast. So what if marketing wasn't about
shouting screaming at your audience, but about creating experiences people
want to talk about? So today I have the sensational Sofana,
and she's going to break down how to turn your
(00:23):
social media into a place of connection, community, and real
brand growth. We'll talk about it right after this.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Educate, empower enable impact. Thank you for tuning in to
that Will Never Work, an award winning podcast where we
share inspiring information and personal experiences related to business and
the entrepreneurial journey from those who are leaders in their
respective field. Now here's your host, author and business coach, Maurice.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Oh, we're gonna jump right into it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Of course, you can read her bio in the link
that I provide in the show notes. You can look
at all her other content, all the fabulous podcast he's
already been on. So I know a lot about this
young lady right here. But we're gonna, well, we're gonna
talk about Sophana. If you can't answer this question in
(01:22):
a world of constant content, how do you stand out?
But by showing more more or by showing more meaningfully. So,
so am I posting more or should I show up
more meaningfully for my content?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I mean for my audience.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I think that's a really good question. The answer is
not hard and fast, but I want to say it's
not the Your quantity will never win if it's not
rooted in earnestness. That's the biggest takeaway I've seen, and
that's the trend that we're moving towards. So if you
(02:03):
think about all social media as like a variety of
house parties that are always ongoing, right, If you kind
of think about it like that, different house parties different vibes,
and there's like different corners of places having different conversations.
Some of them are about gaming, some of them are
(02:24):
about like how to cook the best meal for your family,
some of them are about wait, whatever the people are
interested in, you're gonna kind of find your gang. But
the people that, let's say, if we're dominating or being
present in that conversation and standing out quote unquote in
that house party, they're never going to be the loudest.
They're just going to be the people that the people
can connect to the most. They're not going to be
(02:44):
the people who are like shouting over everyone. They're not
like I will hear you, but I will not necessarily
connect with you. So the moment I think we start
humanizing that experience a little bit more of like what
it's like to actually scroll through your phone, that's what
people moving towards is like, if I met you, could
I be your friend? And if you look at people's
(03:05):
comments who post a lot, or maybe who don't post
that much, you'll see people's comments now going towards more
that of like, oh, I'd love to be your friend.
It's fantastic. And those are the people that are winning.
Those are the brands quote unquote or the the accounts
that are growing the most, the ones that are just
kind of being the most sincere, being like this is
(03:27):
what I've got, this is what I've got in the
house party. I'm here for a little bit, so I'm
gonna have fun and I hope business resonates. I hope
that's helpful.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
It is.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
But you know, it's funny that you call it a
house party because there are some people that like to
just stand up against the wall and watch right, and
then there are some that wants to be the life
of the party and want to show out in front
of everybody. So how do you differentiate that too, because
sometimes people could be too too passive by staying up
(03:57):
against the wall, but way too aggressive. Hey, I want
to be the life of the party. I want to
dance in the middle of everybody. I want to dance
a dance battle, whoever is the next challenger?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
All that type of stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So how do I know how to stay neutral and
still touch everybody that's in their party.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
I think the first question you have to ask is
why do you want to touch a run in that party?
That's the first That's the first question i'd ask you
as a human. It's like is it worth it for you?
If it's really worth it, then yeah, get up on
a table and dance, like if that's honestly what you're into.
But know that that's a divisive move, Like if that's
what you're into, like your apple or whatever, maybe the move.
But most of us are not a brand, where like
a we are a human. So even if you have
(04:39):
something you want to sell, sometimes it's really worth understanding
who it is you want to talk to and going
into your truth. The one thing that is like the
fail safe that I've never seen change you to trends,
you who technology is, to the truth that is you,
and then understanding how that is helpful or beneficial for
(05:01):
the audience, not for you necessarily, but you'll root it
in your truth, but just in your audience, Like what
can I actually add value into your lives? And it
may just be that you're funny and lots of people
will flock towards to you. It may be that you
bake the best cakes and people flock to Like, there's
loads of ways to be sincerely yourself and create the
impact you want in reality that won't take away from
(05:22):
I guess the earnestness of the human experience. I feel
like that it's the bit that's like not spoken about,
like yeah we can build brand, Yeah we can, Yeah
we can like shout the loudest, but if that's not you,
I don't want to. That's why the whole thing of
like you said in the very beginning of like what
does it take for marketing to not be like the
(05:43):
rah rah the circus?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
And the truth is lean back into your humanity because
that's what we're gonna want to flock towards. That's the
way I'm seeing it, and that's what I've seen at
work for most of my clients, brands that I've worked with,
et cetera. Isn't your truth? And if it's from dancing
on the table, dance on the table, baby, But if
it's not, like, get off the table. Stop telling people
about what it's like to be a mama ful like
(06:07):
you know what I mean? And you could be both.
You could be both, but just do the thing that
is most honest for you.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
But see, I know someone like myself, I'm not a
dance on a table type person. I can go and
talk to a person to person though, introduce myself things
like that. Sometimes I see those individuals that are dancing
on the table might be trying to overcompensate for something
(06:35):
else that like they're lacking something else, whether it's some
type of substance. Do I really understand my product right
as a business owner? Do I really have something to offer?
What is my selling point? Whatever it is?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
You know? So, how do we.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Understand ourselves in a genuine sense that you keep referring to?
How do I make sure that I'm genuine in those
dealings or my business or whatever it might be.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
From a human sense, Because these two things are gonna overlap.
But human sense, I feel like we've all gone to
parties where we're gonna shouldn't have done that, right, I
didn't like the way that I acted, even though really,
really and truly like within ourselves we were like, oh
I didn't. I wasn't a fan of the way I
(07:22):
conducted myself. That's the human element, right. Business it's the same.
So in business and with brands that I've worked with,
they will sometimes put something out that is on trend,
on whatever, and they reflect and be like, that really
wasn't on brand, Like we and the way that manifests
in numbers and in whatever's like, yeah, we got views,
but we absolutely did not get click throughs. We did
not get conversions. Everyone who converted us for a refund
(07:45):
and all of that stuff will have to make you
reflect on the way that you presented yourself as a brand,
the way that you showed up in the world. Right,
So it's both of those two things are the same.
It's like maybe you made a friend that night, but
it wasn't a friend you needed, Like if it wasn't
a friend that's gonna have your back, it was just
kind of someone who thought that was you and that
was because that was the the you know, the foot
you put forward in the And the other instance is
(08:06):
like you say, what is it that I genuinely have
that I can provide that other people maybe don't do
as well as me. And a lot of the time
that's going into your truth. So on a human scale,
that's what that is. If I was to give you
a really good example of like one of a recent
client that I worked with was actually like an angio
slash charity, and when I was speaking to them, they
(08:29):
were like, what we do is we try and improve
the lives of kids from what they called underprivileged backgrounds.
I was like, fabulous. They're like, but we never say
kids from underprivileged backgrounds. We say we want to challenge
kids to be the best that they can be. And
I said fabulous. And then the more we spoke, the
more they were like, yeah, but we only work in
our borough and sometimes we're embarrassed to say we only
(08:52):
work in this borough. And I said, okay, well, what's
the repercussions of holding that truth back? You're like, sometimes
people from other boroughs come and I'm like, do you
want that? And then they're like, not necessarily because we
really believe that if we help our borough, our borough
can help other boroughs and then they can help themselves,
to which I said, there's honestly going to be fabulous
(09:13):
repercussions if you specify now, because you'll grow faster, you'll
exclude faster, and then therefore your your template will be
able to be followed by other burroughs. That's exactly what happens.
Just say the whole truth, like say the truth as
it is a lot of the times, that's what's gonna
get you the exact people you need. So sometimes the
(09:34):
thing that you're hiding or you perceive that hiding will
get you a good thing out of it. Sometimes that
is the exact thing you need to unlock your fastest
way to success. And a lot of the times that's
the most honest thing.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And so as I'm listening to you, there's a few
things that come to mind. So sometimes we need to
implement a ab testing space, right, you know, we're trying
to look at maybe if we do this type of
marketing here versus this type of marketing there, so we
can understand, you know, which one can bring in the
(10:08):
type of clients that we're looking for. Because sometimes we
don't know exactly where they might be hiding, right, And
so how important would it be for us to implement
that type of testing just to kind of get outside
of our box for a hot second.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
I think it's very important, but I have to point
out that that's an incremental win rather than a major win.
So depending on where you are in the journey, it
could be just you, because I think when we say
A B testing is for people who are quite mature
in their approach to things, right, So the people who
are speaking who we're speaking to, we're the ones who
are like those are the ones who are saying, I've
got a good base. But actually my suspicion is I
(10:46):
would get more, I would get marginal benefit out being
here versus where I am now. Then I would say
your best better is an A B test, because what
you don't want to do is your own to lose
out on what you've got. Now, if what you is working,
your AB test is the best bet, right, and then
what if your be is the one let's going to
outdo your course? You iterate, But I think I want
(11:09):
to say just two things about A B testing, which
if you see me on any podcast, I will always say,
listen to your A B tests or don't do them,
like I've seen so many people just do A B
tests for the sake of doing A B tests. Like
if the B wins, use the B and then optimize
the B. Don't keep doing the same or doing a variety.
Like it's a real scientific environment, do you know what
(11:29):
I mean? Like sometimes I'm like, why did you do that?
But yeah, listen to the AB. Please just listen to
the science if you're going to go down the science room.
But yeah, if you want incremental wins a B wah
like fabulous, say I suspect this, I suspect that, But
have a really really good understanding, basic understanding of your
audience first. I'm always for audience first, audience aness what's
the ven diagram? Where does your audience and your organization
(11:51):
live that perfect men diagram. Once you've got that, that's
where you can begin with the playground of editing and tweaking,
et cetera. But before that, it's recommend So.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And I brought that up because you hear a lot
of that right now about testing and just trying to
try and fix some things. But and I brought that
up because sometimes we're not always honest about who our
real audience is because we don't have that true feedback loop.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
We don't understand how important that really is.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So so how do we ensure that we are getting
to the people that we really need to, especially those
that we really want to help, especially if we don't
understand what that loop really is.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah, that's such a That is such a good question, Maurice.
It's such a good question because I feel like if
people asked it more, we would have just a better universe.
There's so many ways to get to know your audience,
and the first one is just like speak to them.
That's the first thing. Like if someone is a customer,
if someone buys your stuff, if someone listens to your stuff,
just speak to them. Just be like, what is it
(12:52):
that you want to what value did that ad? Did
you like this? I'm thinking of doing this without add value?
And like, the more you do that, don't take one
person's word for it, but the more you do that,
the more you understand who is in the room that
you are currently speaking in or that you found something.
So first and foremost, go to the source. Always go
(13:13):
to the source. If you can, if you haven't been
able to go to the source yet. Look at what
your competitors are doing and who is in their rooms.
And the way that you could do that is, let's
say you have this podcast. You know that other people
listen to a similar podcast. Go into those comments of
those YouTube videos and just be like, what are they
talking about? What do they like? What are the things
that they highlighted from that thing? How can I add
value and speak to those concerns. There's this really fabulous
(13:37):
method that people use to write copy and to create
a product, like reverse engineer product market fit, and it
is if you figure out who the kind of audience
is that you want to serve, imagine that you are them,
and then write down all the concerns that they would
have if you can't speak to them directly. This is
an imagination project right where you go. I want to
service people who are starting a small business. I don't
(14:00):
know how to start usmall business. I don't know if
I should leave my job, I don't know how I
do a side hustle and all of this, and then
you just kind of create to leave your company without
losing your money, and then you kind of reverse engineer it.
So that you are speaking to their concerns. And the
(14:21):
more you do that, the more fruitful I think you
will find every interaction if that's the kind of way
that you want to show up in the universe.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, so audience first, I understand the audience first. But
your answer was so simplistic. There are a lot of us.
It might be too it might be too simple of
just talking to the audience.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I don't know what you want from me, then simple
and wins, simple wins. I listen. So I'm Middle East
in and there's this thing that they say in the
add least of like sometimes you'll ask people where where
they're ears and they will say here, and you're like, baby,
you could have just said this like so, so yes,
it's simple, then I dare you to do it and
(15:07):
then talk.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
To me.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Again.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
It's a fana because and I'm saying it because sometimes
we look at other people, right, and we weren't, like
you said, look at our competitors or whatever else, and
we think that they have a team of thirty five
people right trying to you know, create this environment, and
you're just using something as simple as hey, Safana, how
(15:31):
are you today?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Did you like the content that I provided.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, so if we're looking at that, okay, So
then again I would say, if we're going to I'm
going to draw from the thing I said in the beginning.
Your main strength is what you have to offer right now.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
You're honest.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Truth. So this person who's got thirty five people on
the ground doing things whatever it is that we imagine
that they have at their disposal, they likely started where
you started. But the huge superpower you have is that
you can actually you don't have such a big audience
that you're lost and you need to cater to hundreds
of thousands. You have twenty people who are engaged, and
you're trying to find twenty more. Your best bet is
(16:10):
to speak to those people, and then if those people
like you, they will tell more people about you, especially
if you ask them so. And I'm saying this out
of like I've done this, so I'm not speaking rubbish.
I'm telling you this is the stuff that works. The
superpower we have when we're small is that we can
speak to our people in a much more sincere way
(16:32):
where we say, listen, man, I'm just doing this because
I think this will be helpful. If I would you,
I would find very helpful, and if it's not helpful,
this is your role to tell me. Because I have
the capacity right now to read what you're about to
say and then act on it. The thirty five plus
employee person doesn't have that luxury. So if you want
to leverage that, this is the way you would leverage
(16:54):
that to get your growth faster. If that does not
convince you, then here is the other way to do it.
You're going to get twenty people in a room. You're
going to think, no, I want fifty thousand, and then
you're going to look at the person who's doing generic content,
and then you're going to stab in the dark, and
these twenty people are going to lose interest because that's
not what got them there in the first place. So
you're going to be doing but maybe discontent, maybe this content,
(17:17):
and your best bet is going to be to start
with this and find more of these people. SaaS products
do this, and so do content creators. It's the same thing.
Once you find good product market fit, what you want
to do is you want to get others into this.
You want to find more of this because that's your
core audience, and then you can fan out. But unless
you've dominated that niche. It's a strange many things you're
(17:39):
trying to pick up, and then you know tailor to
which is very messy, so not ernest, and you're also
not you won't do I think what you think you'll do.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So again, you're making it too simple, So fan I mean,
and I'm saying, is because you're recommending that I stay
the same throughout the whole process, don't change, you know,
because a lot again, when we look at social media,
we're influenced, right, we see what they're doing, we see
(18:11):
what our competitors doing. We may take a real quick
look at their numbers and say, oh wow, they're doing
thirty thousand downloads a month, because that's where I want
my podcast to be. But I'm only doing fifty, you know,
So how do I grow into that? Because of well,
I think that's given out the same type of content.
(18:33):
I want thirty. I want the sponsorships, I want all
these type of things. So it's my fifty people as
just as important as those thirty thousand, And how do.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I stay myself in that space?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Especially if I'm looking to the hills, I'm looking at
the what my sky could possibly be?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I would say this very practically. If we're going to
go like, okay, if we want to do some hard work,
the people who've currently got thirty thousand downloads, I would say,
go back to their content when they only had fifty downloads.
Go back to their content and see what they did.
And if, Maurice, you're going to tell me that they
(19:14):
actually did a crazy amount of wild stuff, all different
and then all of a sudden there was a spike,
then I would say, follow that template, that's what you want.
But my bet, my hunch is what you're going to
find is a steady increase over time and then that
exponential growth. But that steady increase came with the almost boring,
(19:35):
monotonous I'm going to do this thing for this audience
until until I get critical mass, because that's how it grows.
It doesn't go like this necessarily, you'll go like this
and then pull it will kick off at one point, right,
because that's the compounding effect of social So you have
to do what you're This is also, by the way,
so I want to say two things. That's what I think.
(19:56):
You just have to ensure that your product is good,
because if it's not good, no one's going to even
if twenty people can't, you're they're gonna churn and they're
not gonna So make sure your product is actually good
like the value that you're providing, you smash it out
the park every time. Here's my value statement. It's the
same as you predicted, because there's this nice reassurance of like,
what you want from me is what I'm going to
deliver every time. It's the same time, same place, and
(20:18):
I'm gonna give you the same amount of fantastic quality
every time, so that you're gonna want to turn up
next time. Otherwise you're gonna be dealing with churn, which
is not what we want to deal with. So first
and foremost, you want to do that. Second of all,
this is I think the third or fourth time Maurice,
you've mentioned. But when you look at other people, right,
if we're going to be doing shiny object syndrome, which
is what that is, you won't win. I'm gonna make
(20:41):
it very simple, you won't win. There's never gonna be
an object so dull. No matter how much you're shining,
there's never gonna be an object that's not dull to you.
So you either are content with what it is you're
doing and happy that the route that you're you're enjoying
the journey of going Okay, fabulus, we're going to get
to this thing, or you're gonna be doing shiny objects
(21:03):
in drums like maybe I'll try this, maybe i'll try that,
maybe I'll try And if you do that, you won't.
You won't. I don't believe someone's done that and succeeded,
not in the brick and mortar, not in the SaaS,
not in the product, not in the service, in not
even in sport. It's not going to be a guy
who was like I tried basketball, then football, and then
when I did one term of ice hockey, I was
(21:23):
a champion. It's not That's not going to be the
way it goes. It's going to be like I did
hockey for fifty years, right right, and now I'm in
the championships, Like that's a lot of the times, that's
the way it's going to go.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
And I'm gonna tell you the reason why I keep
bringing up because a lot of my listeners are in
that space where it, yeah, so caught up what everybody
else is doing. But my under outlining message is be
happy with what you see in the mirror, right, you know,
understand who that person is when you look back in
that mirror. It's like, all right, yeah, I might have
a little frown lines and you know, maybe some you
(21:58):
know lines with my forehead because I'm you know, upset
or whatever it is, but still be understand that, Hey,
who I am in that mirror I'm proud of and
that even though if I have those fifty people, we're
cultivating a community.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
You know people, right, I definitely agree with that. Don't
compare thing I think of joy. I think that's what
they say. Ah, And it's not just the thief of joy.
Sometimes it's the thief of just like self assurance. And
(22:37):
so if you're going to be doing the game where
you're comparing yourself a lot, I think genuinely, just be
prepared to lose and lose a lot more than you think.
And I say this is as honestly and earnestly as
I can. Yeah, I think one of the most poisonous
things you could do. And people blame social media, but
we compared before, like social media is just that like
(22:59):
on steroids, right, it's not. It's not for those who
want joy in this world anyways. It's I don't think
comparisons for those who want joy in this world. Honestly,
I'm being honest, like I just like, if you do
want to compare, then compare. But I'm telling you now
it's it's not gonna be the way that you're gonna grow.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Wow. So it's to find out.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I mean, we can go on for about another two
hours when it's to be honest, right, So, but I
would like to know where can people talk to you
and get a little bit more confident who they are
and what they provide, no matter what audience that they
already have, how to cultivate them, how to nourish them,
how to mature it, you know, grow it.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So where can they find out more information and talk
to you about this?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
You can always find me on my website. So if
you contact me via my website, which is just my
name Fan s A f f A n A dot
co dot UK. Because I'm me, I'm also the only
managed in the world. So it's I always say, if
you don't find me, it's on purpose and you always
(24:08):
reach out to me. So whether that's like through professional works.
So mostly what I do is I help engiers which
are non government organizations, specifically charities a lot of the
time to get really clear on how it is they
help so that they can help more people. That's something
I'm always really really big on. But I do help
scale ups and starts. So if you want to do that,
(24:29):
if you always want to figure out your audience and
perfect your copy so that it's really like going to
speak to your truth and the truth of others and resonate, well,
always reach out to me as a fan at Cody UK.
If you want to learn how to do that completely
for free, just find me on TikTok and I just
tell people how to write copy and how to read
media and advertising so that they're very aware of the
(24:52):
powers that be and how they're alluding us to kind
of try and find temporary joy and relief in places
that it never will exist.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
So again, Safana, simplicity, right, you said, I'm the one
and only and finally just by my name, so you know,
and I think that's something that we need to keep.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
In mind, that we are a one and only.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
We don't have to be duplicated, we don't have to
copy somebody else, just standing in who we are. So
I appreciate you showing that and there being a real
life example of that to be honest.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Experience, This is all I've got.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
But but you know, before we go, I got one
more question of Safana, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna
knock this question out the park. It is my would
you rather question? And I asked it to everybody. Would
you rather choose three doors or a fourking road?
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Now?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Use your imagination, hold on three doors or a fork
in the road.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Yes, yes, three doors.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
You mean hypothetical doors that open up to unknown situations,
and I just have.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
To pick one whatever your imagination comes up with.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
A fork in the road means I'm there, and then
I can go left or right.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
You can fly it, use your imagination. There is no
box road.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I'm gonna I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go fork
in the road.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
And why to fork?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
I'm going to do fork? Yeah, I'm going to fork
in the road.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
And why would you do a fork in the road.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I'm a runner and that's the thing I'm mostly faced
with and I'm trying to perfect being so happy with
whatever place I've picked. M that's the way I do it.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So like just we're gonna piggyback off of that, did
you ever run on your birthday?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
That's so good. Keep you're doing your research. Yeah, I'm
gonna run thirty three miles for my next birthday.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Nice, I told you, I did. I listen.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I listen, you really did. That's a phenomenal answer. That's honestly,
that's that's phenomenous. That's really good. Yeah, I'm gonna run
tace three miles for my next birthday, one for every year,
and and it's gonna be painful, and it's gonna be glorious.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Good.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I mean, we all got to push ourselves, right, we
all have to look for the next challenge.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Or whatever it is. We're always evolving, even in this
simplest form.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Absolutely, And then the words of my friends doing hard
things makes me build self confidence. It shows me that
hard things are within my reach.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Wow, there's there's nothing else to say after that final
I mean, that's a mic drop.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Well, I think very much for coming on the show today.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Thank you so much for having me race. It's been
a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Sure, no problem, And of course all us the finest
information will be in the show notes and I will
talk to you just.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
A little bit later.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Thanks for listening. Follow Maurice Chisholm on social media to
stay connected and check back weekly for new episodes until
next time. That will never work, or will it
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