September 3, 2025 • 25 mins
In this meaningful episode of That Will Nevr Work, Maurice Chism sits down with entrepreneur and legacy strategist Evan Poling to unpack what it really means to build a business legacy—and why most leaders never think about it until it’s too late.
Evan shares how to shift from short-term wins to lasting impact, helping entrepreneurs reframe success beyond profits and metrics. Together, they explore questions that every founder should ask: What am I building for? What will outlive me? And how do I create something that matters beyond the moment?
Whether you're starting out or scaling up, this conversation will challenge you to build with intention, lead with vision, and think beyond the now.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanpoling/
https://www.bizretire.com/
Evan shares how to shift from short-term wins to lasting impact, helping entrepreneurs reframe success beyond profits and metrics. Together, they explore questions that every founder should ask: What am I building for? What will outlive me? And how do I create something that matters beyond the moment?
Whether you're starting out or scaling up, this conversation will challenge you to build with intention, lead with vision, and think beyond the now.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanpoling/
https://www.bizretire.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I thank you very much for tuning in to that
Will Never Work podcast. So you can build a successful business,
but will it be Remember today we have Evan and
he's going to talk to us about how to build
a legacy that lasts long after the spotlight fades.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
We'll talk about it right after this.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Educate, empower, enable Impact. Thank you for tuning in to
that Will Never Work, an award winning podcast where we
share inspiring information and personal experiences related to business and
the entrepreneurial journey from those who are leaders in their
respective field. Now here's your host, author and business coach Maurice.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I think you, thank you, thank you very much for
tuning in.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
So I have Evan and of course for those of
you who have been listening, if you want Evan's bio,
you can google Evan.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
He's an action where you.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Can google Evan and find out what's going on with
Evan and they listen to is his other podcast He's
been on other information he's provided, but today we're going
to talk about business legacy. So Evan, question for you, man,
if there if the business is just surviving in the moment,
in the moment, what does setting up a foundation that
(01:24):
speaks for generations to come. How do we get to
that point?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a tough question
that a lot of business owners are wrestling with. You know,
we're facing a kind of a crisis in our country
right now where we have about thirty percent of all
business owners in the United States are going to retire
in the next ten years, and so it means less
businesses to do services, less businesses for jobs, and so
(01:52):
there's a huge exodus of business. And on the flip side,
only twenty percent of businesses ever sell, and so we're
seeing fewer and fewer businesses change hands. We're seeing a
very low success rate with the business actually going down
a generation and two generations it's almost impossible. And so
this is definitely a crisis, this legacy of a business.
(02:15):
And I think it goes back to business owners really
working inside of their business, but not working on their business.
They're inundated with the day in and day out tasks
that are in front of them and the things that
they're struggling with, and they're not really looking at the
bigger picture. How do I make this business last? How
do I make it self sustainable? How do we continue
(02:37):
this legacy further down the road, and I think that's
one of the reasons why we're not seeing more businesses
survive the test of time.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So it just burrows me for a moment. We might
this question might be a little off, but thinking about
this whole part of business legacy, and you're saying that
how it is not translating into one or two generations?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Is after? Is it?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Because I'm just going to use this idea. Are most
of our kids spoiled enough where they don't want to
take on their responsibility?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
You know, they just want to live the life i e.
Like they see on social media.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
They don't want to bring that information on or or
put themselves in that position.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Have you seen anything like that?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
I don't know. I don't know if spoiled is the
right word.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I mean, there might be there might be an element
of that, you know, and I think you know, I
don't know if you have kids, but anybody who has kids.
I don't personally have kids, but we know that every
kid has a different personality, right right when you're thinking
about a business legacy, you know, they they might not
really jive with the vision and mission that the parents had.
You know, you know, maybe the parents weren't present and
(03:46):
didn't really bring them into that legacy and importance and
nurture that you know, maybe the kid has different giftings
and talents, different directions, you know, and maybe you know,
you have the old school versus the new school mentality
on how should be ran. So there's a kind of
a clashing of heads. You know, Dad thinks it should
be ran the same way it's always been.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Rund it.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
It works, it makes money, you know, why change it,
don't don't break it. If it don't fix you, don't
fix it if it's not worth the type mentality. And
then the kids like, well, we could be doing social media,
we could be doing this, we can be doing that,
And so I think there is a collision of ideas
as well.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
And so it's hard.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
It's really hard to transfer ownership to the next generation
for a myriad of reasons.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So even as we're trying to build our organization, right
because you said we're working it in it, you know,
not on it. So because of something that you state
as far as being more open minded to what's available
to us, you know, and knowing that, hey, we've been
doing this for the last twenty twenty five years and
(04:50):
not being able to understand, Hey, there are new technologies,
there are new systems out there.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The way we need to approach our.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Customers might not be the same as well well, because
their needs have changed and order community has changed. So
how do we change our mindset if we's kind of like,
hey again that if it's not broken, don't fix a mentality.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Yeah, I think the mindset has to shift with the
end of the business it. You know, this is this
is a true statistic. One hundred percent of every business owner.
There is no you know, this is more certain than
taxes because not all business owners pay their taxes. One
hundred percent of business owners will exit their business either
the guy or sell it. They'll give it to their kids,
(05:34):
they'll be taken from them, they'll be destroyed.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
So everyone will exit their business eventually because the doors
and so, you know, for something that is so probable,
it's going to happen to everyone. So the question becomes
is what are you doing about it? How are you
preparing for the future. And the thing is is, if
you do you think that the same models and practices
will last to the next generation. Do you think those
(05:58):
practices and models will continue to serve the next generation,
well will they? Will they survive in a new economy,
a new mindset, and new technology? Will they be competitive
in those environments? And so when you're when you're kind
of looking at at that as an owner, you have
to ask yourself it might be a little painful to
lose some of the control and let your inexperienced child
to step in and make some calls and have some
(06:21):
failures and try some things. But I think if you're
really looking to keep a business legacy at last, you
have to be willing to let the kids come in
and make mistakes. Because the truth is, when you started
your business, not you, but when the owners started their business,
they were a kid at one point or a young adult.
They made mistakes, they had a trial and error and
figure it out too. And so I just think there's
(06:43):
not a good stewardship of ownership, you know leadership, you know,
grace for making mistakes, opportunities for changing how things are.
And so I think business owners would be better served
by you know, taking the risk and really bringing the
kids in the process, letting them have the opportunity to
fail and fail.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Well wow, So so there's something that you mentioned going
back of our moment. You had mentioned about looking at
the end first mentality, and part of that is that
exit strategy, which you termed, you know, or just used,
Why would I want to consider my exit, especially if
(07:23):
I'm just beginning, like, you know, I'm just starting out, Like,
why would I want to consider the end so early on?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
I mean, you know, when you first start out, there
are other priorities, right, There's things that are important, and
there's things that are priorities, and I think, you know,
maybe an exit is.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Not a priority, but it is important.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
And so as you build a business, you get to think, well,
you're starting out, Okay, so I need to obviously get
some kind.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Of legal entity structure.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
You know, when I'm working with suppliers, I probably should
get some legal contracts in place, not some kind of
handshake verbal agreement.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
As I'm you know, hiring people, I should probably have
some kind of document that they sign about certain ethics
and morals and how they're gonna get paid. As I
build out a team, I should probably have policies and procedures,
you know, these kinds of things that are not necessarily
needed as you build a business, but can actually save
you a lot of time and money keeping keeping, accounting
(08:18):
software and documents, keeping your bookkeeping.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
So these things along.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
The way, it will set you up for the exit
success and make it less of a headache later on.
And so yeah, that's what I would recommend.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And I perused your website and like I said, I
listen to other podcasts you will. And one of the
things that we don't always consider as entrepreneurs or business owners,
you know, as we can become larger, we might consider it,
but early on we may not consider what are our
true evaluation. I mean evaluation is about our organization, you know,
(08:52):
and consider how much are we really worth? And when
I saw that, I'm like, you know, I haven't had
that done in a while, you know, in a while.
So is that even you like shaw I even or
are there like points where I should do that, or
are there points where or anything else I might need
to consider only when I'm thinking about getting out of
(09:12):
the business, or or how should I look at evaluation
for my organization?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Well, I think if you're looking for a twenty year
old tree, the best time to plant a tree is today, right,
not when you want the tree to happen. And so
I think with anything, the more you plan and you
think about it, the more success you'll have. And in
a lot of ways, you kind of want to work
backwards because you know, we're thinking about a goal that's
far in the future, you know, to my earlier point,
(09:39):
one of the things is like what is your retirement number?
And it's like, okay, so when are you going to retire?
How much money you're going to need to retire, like
how far? How many years are going to be retired for?
How much money is that going to cost? What kind
of standard of living do you want? And you say, oh, wow,
I need five million dollars. It's like, well, my businesses
were five hundred thousand, So you got some work to do, right.
You have to you have to really consider what it
(10:00):
is that is valuable, and when selling a business, it's
not what you think it's worth. Here's the disconnect I
think a lot of owners have is they have this
business that's provided them really good income. But what they
didn't realize is they bought a building thirty years ago
when it was ten percent as much as it is today.
They bought equipment twenty years ago. It's twenty percent as
(10:22):
much as today. They hired employees that's stuck around and
they haven't gotten a raise in five years. And so
when a buyer comes in, it looks at that business.
They're like, well, you know, the loan on this stuff
is going to be more than you're making. So it's
not an investment. It becomes a job. It becomes a liability.
So now the buyer has to put a loan up
(10:42):
against their house. You know, they don't have the forty
years of experience that the business owner has, and so
you got to think about the buyer side of things.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
How do I make this attractive investment? Right?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And one of the beautiful things about the stock market
is you just throw money in, you get an investment out.
The business is not like that, it's hands on. So
how are you making this an actual investment for the
person who's going to buy the business. And that's why
only twenty percent of businesses that go to market ever
sell because business owners they think of it from their perspective,
but not the person purchasing the business.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
And thinking about the two things that you mentioned, which
is equipment and a building. You know, if I've had
that building for thirty years, have I done any updates
to it?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You know?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And I'm using that as an example because I just
heard I don't know what I was listening to, but
listening to some of the NFL teams right how some
of them are considering updating their stadiums, you know, because
they've had it for thirty forty years. Should we update
the building itself or do we have to build a
brand new building because it's going to cost way too much.
(11:50):
And I'm listening to you talk about how is that
going to be attractive enough even if I bring on
that type of assay, and how much I need to
invest in that, And those are things that we don't
always consider, especially when I have clients personally being nonprofits
and religious organizations. They don't realize that this building, yes,
it looks great, it was built into seventeen hundreds, but
(12:11):
it doesn't have any air.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You know, just stuff like that, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
So so I think those are type of things we
don't consider.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah, well, I mean, and remodeling buildings are is important,
but it goes back to the core of what business
is doing. The foundation of the mission to serve your
customers or your businesses that you serve and sometimes it
can be Updating is huge, but there are other things
that are important, you know, like coaching, you know, having
an exit advisor, tax strategy.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Everyone pays taxes.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
You know, so you know, one of one of the
things my company does is prevent you from paying a
commission on the sale. But if you don't use a
company like me, then you have to pay a ten
to twenty percent commission. So in the twenty percent commission,
thirty percent taxes, you got to pay accountants and lawyers
and then financial planners you figure how to invest the business.
You might only walk away with half of what you've
(13:02):
sold your business for. You know, updating and buildings could
be a value, I can also be a distraction too,
And so it's like, yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
What is it? Goes back to what is it? What
value does it provide the buyer?
Speaker 4 (13:14):
How can how can they justify taking out a larger
loan to pay.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Me more money? Right?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I mean that's what it comes down to. How can
they service this debt? Because they're taking out debt to
pay you to buy the business. You really want to
think about what is the true value add.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
To the buyer?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Well, and sometimes as the owner, have you come across
those that might value their business a little more than
what it might really be because their emotion and everything,
their emotional investment, and it might be greater than what
it might actually be worth.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
I mean when you have war stories, you know, we
were close to bankruptcy and we pulled through, or I
helped my community, or you know, you literally bled, sweat
cried everything, you know, and you look at you're looking
at your bottom line, like I'm making five hundred K
a year. But then the owner has to come in
and they have to hire three employees plus themselves.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Just to equal your output.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Because you're working eighty hours a week and you get
forty years of experience. You know, they're not going to
have the same perspective on that. They're going to look
at it from an objective perspective and uh, you know.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
They're gonna look at the books.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
They're going to look at like I said, can we
service the debt on this loan?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Is is it a good investment? Is it good?
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You know how much time A'm gonna have to put
into this thing? You know, it's to them, it's kind
of like a remodel. You know, how do I?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
How do I?
Speaker 4 (14:33):
And is the investment worth and then the money I
put in and time worth the outcome. And so that's
kind of how they're looking at your business and so
not yours, but just businesses in general to buy. And
again it goes back. Only twenty percent of business is
going to market ever sell. And the problem is eighty
percent of an owner's net worth on average is tied
up into their business. This is I called the eighty
(14:55):
percent rule. Eighty percent of businesses never sell and eighty
percent of their net worth is tied up in their business.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
And so it's a conundrum.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
But a lot of times it's because they're not willing
to look at the buyer's perspective. If they do, then
they create value for the buyer. The buyer will buy
the business.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
You know. And so how do we change that mindset?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
You know, maybe one or two points or ideas, because sometimes,
like you said, we might be emotionally involved, invested, maybe
even our ego, right, you know, because the ego getting
away as well.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So what's one or.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Two things where we might start to open up that
door to think things a little differently.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
That's a great question. You know, I haven't owned a
business for forty years. And had the type of attachment
to something. I'm not even forty years old, so imagine
to imagine how you change a mindset on something that
you've fought for forty years. That's a that's a tough question.
(15:53):
I think it really goes down to doing the work,
because I can see it here in the blue face.
Change your mindset and do this and think of it
this way. But you know, go to a financial planner,
figure out what you need to retire, get a real
honest evaluation of your business. And then what if your
evaluation is subtracted forty percent from it for taxes, business
broker if you go that route, right, accountants, you know,
(16:16):
you have tax advisors, you have all these things. And
then then see if you hit your retirement number, and
if you don't, then that will be that should be
a mindset changer. Hopefully that you know you you got
some work to do. I think mindsets change when they're
hit with reality. And that's that's the thing. That's only
thing I can say is that get out there and
get real with real numbers and understand.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
What's really going on.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, I mean, I know I've come across some business
owners where if they hit with that reality now all
of a sudden, they're depressed, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Sometimes they're like.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Wow, you know, I've been doing this, I've been on
this corner for the last and I remember when this
person was born, and you know all those things, like
you said, you hear all them.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Stories and how invested they really are.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
But unfortunately it's not as valuable as they consider, because
you know, the new owner won't have those type of memories,
they won't be that connected originally, you know. And so
I think those are things that I've heard that people
may not always understand, you know that, Hey, what we've
been doing for the last forty years is not optimal.
(17:19):
It's not efficient, and it's not as effective in our reality.
You know, we probably could reach a larger community if
we have other types of systems in place, you know.
So like you said something about, you know, hiring four
or five more people to do that one job.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
But that part right there says how.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Much I might have been undervalued myself because I love
this job, you know. And so there's a lot of
pieces to this that as I'm listening to, I'm like, wow,
like this, some people that I've come across really need
to evaluate how much they're involved in their company, like
(18:04):
you said, not out or on it.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I'm going to touch a little bit on the you know,
community piece, the connection piece, and I want to touch
a little bit on the value of the owner. So
that for the first piece is you know, the owner
has these connections with people.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
And they built these relationships for over a few years.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Why does the owner think that that those people will
value the relationship with the new owner in the same way,
And why does the old owner think that those relationships
will be just as valuable post sale as they were
pre sale. And you know, like so if if the owner,
the original owner had a forty year relationship with a supplier,
(18:47):
you know, they could go golfing and hang out and
talk and work the business out. But that supplier is
not going to have the same loyalty as to the
new owner, right and so you know, maybe that supplier
jacks up the prices, maybe they you know, not they
don't honor some of the agreements that were previously there,
and so you know, with that, the customer base is
not a loyal because it's not the same same owner,
(19:09):
and so you know, the owner can't expect the same
financial status to happen for the buyer as it did
for the owner. I mean, it's just it's just not plausible.
And then going back onto the ownership value piece, a
lot of times the owner when they first started the business,
they have to wear many hats, right and so and
so they've kind of learned how to wear many hats
(19:30):
and continue to wear many hats. But the problem is
sometimes the owner is doing a ten hour, ten dollars
an hour job that they could have outsourced to someone
and then they could use their time and skills to
generate five hundred dollars an hour in another skill that's
higher level within the business. And so what's going to
what happens with good buyers. They they understand what time
(19:51):
was valuable and what what time wasn't valuable, and they
outsourced to the right people for efficiency and they can
extract more value of business. And so my call to
the owner is is figure out where you can do this.
You might go from an eighty hour work week down
to thirty hour work week and then realize, hey, if
I hire another person, I can work ten hours a
week still kind of be semi retired, enjoy life and
(20:13):
never have to sell the business.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Anyways, it's like a paycheck.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
And so this kind of goes back to the other
option is like, well maybe you can keep it in
the family, passing down to kids, and so you kind
of going back to that legacy pieces really evaluate to
a hard valuation of like what your time is worth,
your employees times are worth, and that goes back to
you know, proper staffing and understanding the roles of the company.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
There's one word that you said, evan outsource. A lot
of us don't think about that word, you know, we
don't consider that word, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Because again we're so invested and we don't always know
where to go get to get the right type of
services for that word outsource. So so I think that's
something that we need to consider even more even more.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Well, you know, and if you're a business owner to
say you're a plumber, you've done been plumbing for forty years.
And then if I were to if I were a
customer and I told that business owner, Hey, I'm going
to hire a handyman and do my plumbing job, and
he's like, you know, one tenth of your price. Well
you're gonna say, well, you should hire an expert to
do the thing that like me as a plumber that
knows what we're doing, we'll get the job done quicker,
(21:19):
more efficiently. Of a warranty, you're guaranteed that this is
going to be fixed. If you hire a handyman, you
might have this problem come back later.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
But yet the.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Owners are handyman at accounting. The owners are a handyman
at you know, handing employees. Owners are handyman at negotiating deals,
and they're unwilling to hire outsource to the experts that
can really take care of them and bring them more
utility and time and value in their business. And so
(21:50):
it kind of goes kind of like you said mindsets.
So that's another mindset owners have is like, hey, I'm
just going to do it myself and figure it because.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
They're capable people, right, capable people.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
But the problem is that there's someone who's and doing that,
that that one thing for way longer, that can do
it better and maybe even cheaper. And so yeah, definitely
outsource if you can and retain some of that own
that value in your businesses.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
If you don't do, the buyer will right right.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Well, Evan, you know, I appreciate you coming on This
was fun man. I mean because these are things that
you know, we don't often talk about. You know, we
talk about the beginning stages of hey, you know, do
this and business plan and those type of things, but
we don't also consider the the end part quote unquote end,
you know, because that, like you said, it's just as important.
(22:38):
It's not primary, but it's just as important as anything else.
So I think you very much for coming on the show.
So with that being said, if someone has interest in
that and they don't understand really what they need to do,
like I said, I peruge your website, listen to other
things talk about you know, how to move maneuver. But
can you please let the listeners know where they can
find you and or are your information?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Yeah, so my name is Evan Polling. You can find
me on a lot of the socials. And then I
have a company called busretired dot com. And it kind
of goes back to your your your point about connecting.
You know, my my emails connect at bus retired dot
com because I connect business owners to business buyers and
business buyers and owners to experts that they need in
order to do the buying process. Well, the selling process well,
(23:24):
and the building of business as well. And so I'm
I'm kind of the connection point that helps connect everyone
together that needs to be connected, and so we do
that very very inexpensively.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
And add a lot of value.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
So I would love to meet with any owners and
even buyers and help them with that process.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, because I saw both of them, I'm like, hey,
do I want to buy something today?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You know? Do I want to sell? You know? Me considerate,
you know, but I think very much for coming on
the show.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Sure, no problem.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
But Evan, before we go, man, I gotta ask you
more question, my world famous question.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Would you rather the question? You ready?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
Yeah, yeah, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Would you rather choose three doors or a forking road?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:10):
This is a this is a tough one. I think
I would probably choose three doors. I think the illusion
of choice is actually not choice. It can be it
could be tough, and so I think the forking road
can help you doubt yourself and doubt your direction. But
three doors, whatever's behind the doors are there, and so
(24:32):
those are three more opportunities that you didn't have before.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
And so I think I would choose the three doors.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Okay, all right, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
You know, I thought you were going to say with
the three doors, you know, because I had another guest
who mentioned how the doors were glassed and they could
see through the you know doors and you know, the
doors were open things like that.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So I was like, all right, so which way is
Evan Gel ready go? You know with this? But you're right,
you know it is. It can be an illusion, you know, so,
but I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Sure, Thank you very much, And of course everyone, Eva's
information will be in the show notes and as I
stay that you can, Hey, if you're looking to buy
something you're looking to sell, talk to my man Evan.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I thank you very much for listening today and I'll
talk to you just a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Thanks for listening. Follow Maurice Chisholm on social media to
stay connected and check back weekly for new episodes until
next time. That will never work? Or will it
I thank you very much for tuning in to that
Will Never Work podcast. So you can build a successful business,
but will it be Remember today we have Evan and
he's going to talk to us about how to build
a legacy that lasts long after the spotlight fades.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
We'll talk about it right after this.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Educate, empower, enable Impact. Thank you for tuning in to
that Will Never Work, an award winning podcast where we
share inspiring information and personal experiences related to business and
the entrepreneurial journey from those who are leaders in their
respective field. Now here's your host, author and business coach Maurice.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I think you, thank you, thank you very much for
tuning in.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
So I have Evan and of course for those of
you who have been listening, if you want Evan's bio,
you can google Evan.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
He's an action where you.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Can google Evan and find out what's going on with
Evan and they listen to is his other podcast He's
been on other information he's provided, but today we're going
to talk about business legacy. So Evan, question for you, man,
if there if the business is just surviving in the moment,
in the moment, what does setting up a foundation that
(01:24):
speaks for generations to come. How do we get to
that point?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a tough question
that a lot of business owners are wrestling with. You know,
we're facing a kind of a crisis in our country
right now where we have about thirty percent of all
business owners in the United States are going to retire
in the next ten years, and so it means less
businesses to do services, less businesses for jobs, and so
(01:52):
there's a huge exodus of business. And on the flip side,
only twenty percent of businesses ever sell, and so we're
seeing fewer and fewer businesses change hands. We're seeing a
very low success rate with the business actually going down
a generation and two generations it's almost impossible. And so
this is definitely a crisis, this legacy of a business.
(02:15):
And I think it goes back to business owners really
working inside of their business, but not working on their business.
They're inundated with the day in and day out tasks
that are in front of them and the things that
they're struggling with, and they're not really looking at the
bigger picture. How do I make this business last? How
do I make it self sustainable? How do we continue
(02:37):
this legacy further down the road, and I think that's
one of the reasons why we're not seeing more businesses
survive the test of time.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So it just burrows me for a moment. We might
this question might be a little off, but thinking about
this whole part of business legacy, and you're saying that
how it is not translating into one or two generations?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Is after? Is it?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Because I'm just going to use this idea. Are most
of our kids spoiled enough where they don't want to
take on their responsibility?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
You know, they just want to live the life i e.
Like they see on social media.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
They don't want to bring that information on or or
put themselves in that position.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Have you seen anything like that?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
I don't know. I don't know if spoiled is the
right word.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I mean, there might be there might be an element
of that, you know, and I think you know, I
don't know if you have kids, but anybody who has kids.
I don't personally have kids, but we know that every
kid has a different personality, right right when you're thinking
about a business legacy, you know, they they might not
really jive with the vision and mission that the parents had.
You know, you know, maybe the parents weren't present and
(03:46):
didn't really bring them into that legacy and importance and
nurture that you know, maybe the kid has different giftings
and talents, different directions, you know, and maybe you know,
you have the old school versus the new school mentality
on how should be ran. So there's a kind of
a clashing of heads. You know, Dad thinks it should
be ran the same way it's always been.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Rund it.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
It works, it makes money, you know, why change it,
don't don't break it. If it don't fix you, don't
fix it if it's not worth the type mentality. And
then the kids like, well, we could be doing social media,
we could be doing this, we can be doing that,
And so I think there is a collision of ideas
as well.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
And so it's hard.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
It's really hard to transfer ownership to the next generation
for a myriad of reasons.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So even as we're trying to build our organization, right
because you said we're working it in it, you know,
not on it. So because of something that you state
as far as being more open minded to what's available
to us, you know, and knowing that, hey, we've been
doing this for the last twenty twenty five years and
(04:50):
not being able to understand, Hey, there are new technologies,
there are new systems out there.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The way we need to approach our.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Customers might not be the same as well well, because
their needs have changed and order community has changed. So
how do we change our mindset if we's kind of like,
hey again that if it's not broken, don't fix a mentality.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Yeah, I think the mindset has to shift with the
end of the business it. You know, this is this
is a true statistic. One hundred percent of every business owner.
There is no you know, this is more certain than
taxes because not all business owners pay their taxes. One
hundred percent of business owners will exit their business either
the guy or sell it. They'll give it to their kids,
(05:34):
they'll be taken from them, they'll be destroyed.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
So everyone will exit their business eventually because the doors
and so, you know, for something that is so probable,
it's going to happen to everyone. So the question becomes
is what are you doing about it? How are you
preparing for the future. And the thing is is, if
you do you think that the same models and practices
will last to the next generation. Do you think those
(05:58):
practices and models will continue to serve the next generation,
well will they? Will they survive in a new economy,
a new mindset, and new technology? Will they be competitive
in those environments? And so when you're when you're kind
of looking at at that as an owner, you have
to ask yourself it might be a little painful to
lose some of the control and let your inexperienced child
to step in and make some calls and have some
(06:21):
failures and try some things. But I think if you're
really looking to keep a business legacy at last, you
have to be willing to let the kids come in
and make mistakes. Because the truth is, when you started
your business, not you, but when the owners started their business,
they were a kid at one point or a young adult.
They made mistakes, they had a trial and error and
figure it out too. And so I just think there's
(06:43):
not a good stewardship of ownership, you know leadership, you know,
grace for making mistakes, opportunities for changing how things are.
And so I think business owners would be better served
by you know, taking the risk and really bringing the
kids in the process, letting them have the opportunity to
fail and fail.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Well wow, So so there's something that you mentioned going
back of our moment. You had mentioned about looking at
the end first mentality, and part of that is that
exit strategy, which you termed, you know, or just used,
Why would I want to consider my exit, especially if
(07:23):
I'm just beginning, like, you know, I'm just starting out, Like,
why would I want to consider the end so early on?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
I mean, you know, when you first start out, there
are other priorities, right, There's things that are important, and
there's things that are priorities, and I think, you know,
maybe an exit is.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Not a priority, but it is important.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
And so as you build a business, you get to think, well,
you're starting out, Okay, so I need to obviously get
some kind.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Of legal entity structure.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
You know, when I'm working with suppliers, I probably should
get some legal contracts in place, not some kind of
handshake verbal agreement.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
As I'm you know, hiring people, I should probably have
some kind of document that they sign about certain ethics
and morals and how they're gonna get paid. As I
build out a team, I should probably have policies and procedures,
you know, these kinds of things that are not necessarily
needed as you build a business, but can actually save
you a lot of time and money keeping keeping, accounting
(08:18):
software and documents, keeping your bookkeeping.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
So these things along.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
The way, it will set you up for the exit
success and make it less of a headache later on.
And so yeah, that's what I would recommend.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And I perused your website and like I said, I
listen to other podcasts you will. And one of the
things that we don't always consider as entrepreneurs or business owners,
you know, as we can become larger, we might consider it,
but early on we may not consider what are our
true evaluation. I mean evaluation is about our organization, you know,
(08:52):
and consider how much are we really worth? And when
I saw that, I'm like, you know, I haven't had
that done in a while, you know, in a while.
So is that even you like shaw I even or
are there like points where I should do that, or
are there points where or anything else I might need
to consider only when I'm thinking about getting out of
(09:12):
the business, or or how should I look at evaluation
for my organization?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Well, I think if you're looking for a twenty year
old tree, the best time to plant a tree is today, right,
not when you want the tree to happen. And so
I think with anything, the more you plan and you
think about it, the more success you'll have. And in
a lot of ways, you kind of want to work
backwards because you know, we're thinking about a goal that's
far in the future, you know, to my earlier point,
(09:39):
one of the things is like what is your retirement number?
And it's like, okay, so when are you going to retire?
How much money you're going to need to retire, like
how far? How many years are going to be retired for?
How much money is that going to cost? What kind
of standard of living do you want? And you say, oh, wow,
I need five million dollars. It's like, well, my businesses
were five hundred thousand, So you got some work to do, right.
You have to you have to really consider what it
(10:00):
is that is valuable, and when selling a business, it's
not what you think it's worth. Here's the disconnect I
think a lot of owners have is they have this
business that's provided them really good income. But what they
didn't realize is they bought a building thirty years ago
when it was ten percent as much as it is today.
They bought equipment twenty years ago. It's twenty percent as
(10:22):
much as today. They hired employees that's stuck around and
they haven't gotten a raise in five years. And so
when a buyer comes in, it looks at that business.
They're like, well, you know, the loan on this stuff
is going to be more than you're making. So it's
not an investment. It becomes a job. It becomes a liability.
So now the buyer has to put a loan up
(10:42):
against their house. You know, they don't have the forty
years of experience that the business owner has, and so
you got to think about the buyer side of things.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
How do I make this attractive investment? Right?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And one of the beautiful things about the stock market
is you just throw money in, you get an investment out.
The business is not like that, it's hands on. So
how are you making this an actual investment for the
person who's going to buy the business. And that's why
only twenty percent of businesses that go to market ever
sell because business owners they think of it from their perspective,
but not the person purchasing the business.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
And thinking about the two things that you mentioned, which
is equipment and a building. You know, if I've had
that building for thirty years, have I done any updates
to it?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You know?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And I'm using that as an example because I just
heard I don't know what I was listening to, but
listening to some of the NFL teams right how some
of them are considering updating their stadiums, you know, because
they've had it for thirty forty years. Should we update
the building itself or do we have to build a
brand new building because it's going to cost way too much.
(11:50):
And I'm listening to you talk about how is that
going to be attractive enough even if I bring on
that type of assay, and how much I need to
invest in that, And those are things that we don't
always consider, especially when I have clients personally being nonprofits
and religious organizations. They don't realize that this building, yes,
it looks great, it was built into seventeen hundreds, but
(12:11):
it doesn't have any air.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You know, just stuff like that, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
So so I think those are type of things we
don't consider.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah, well, I mean, and remodeling buildings are is important,
but it goes back to the core of what business
is doing. The foundation of the mission to serve your
customers or your businesses that you serve and sometimes it
can be Updating is huge, but there are other things
that are important, you know, like coaching, you know, having
an exit advisor, tax strategy.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Everyone pays taxes.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
You know, so you know, one of one of the
things my company does is prevent you from paying a
commission on the sale. But if you don't use a
company like me, then you have to pay a ten
to twenty percent commission. So in the twenty percent commission,
thirty percent taxes, you got to pay accountants and lawyers
and then financial planners you figure how to invest the business.
You might only walk away with half of what you've
(13:02):
sold your business for. You know, updating and buildings could
be a value, I can also be a distraction too,
And so it's like, yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
What is it? Goes back to what is it? What
value does it provide the buyer?
Speaker 4 (13:14):
How can how can they justify taking out a larger
loan to pay.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Me more money? Right?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I mean that's what it comes down to. How can
they service this debt? Because they're taking out debt to
pay you to buy the business. You really want to
think about what is the true value add.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
To the buyer?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Well, and sometimes as the owner, have you come across
those that might value their business a little more than
what it might really be because their emotion and everything,
their emotional investment, and it might be greater than what
it might actually be worth.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
I mean when you have war stories, you know, we
were close to bankruptcy and we pulled through, or I
helped my community, or you know, you literally bled, sweat
cried everything, you know, and you look at you're looking
at your bottom line, like I'm making five hundred K
a year. But then the owner has to come in
and they have to hire three employees plus themselves.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Just to equal your output.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Because you're working eighty hours a week and you get
forty years of experience. You know, they're not going to
have the same perspective on that. They're going to look
at it from an objective perspective and uh, you know.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
They're gonna look at the books.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
They're going to look at like I said, can we
service the debt on this loan?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Is is it a good investment? Is it good?
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You know how much time A'm gonna have to put
into this thing? You know, it's to them, it's kind
of like a remodel. You know, how do I?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
How do I?
Speaker 4 (14:33):
And is the investment worth and then the money I
put in and time worth the outcome. And so that's
kind of how they're looking at your business and so
not yours, but just businesses in general to buy. And
again it goes back. Only twenty percent of business is
going to market ever sell. And the problem is eighty
percent of an owner's net worth on average is tied
up into their business. This is I called the eighty
(14:55):
percent rule. Eighty percent of businesses never sell and eighty
percent of their net worth is tied up in their business.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
And so it's a conundrum.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
But a lot of times it's because they're not willing
to look at the buyer's perspective. If they do, then
they create value for the buyer. The buyer will buy
the business.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
You know. And so how do we change that mindset?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
You know, maybe one or two points or ideas, because sometimes,
like you said, we might be emotionally involved, invested, maybe
even our ego, right, you know, because the ego getting
away as well.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So what's one or.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Two things where we might start to open up that
door to think things a little differently.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
That's a great question. You know, I haven't owned a
business for forty years. And had the type of attachment
to something. I'm not even forty years old, so imagine
to imagine how you change a mindset on something that
you've fought for forty years. That's a that's a tough question.
(15:53):
I think it really goes down to doing the work,
because I can see it here in the blue face.
Change your mindset and do this and think of it
this way. But you know, go to a financial planner,
figure out what you need to retire, get a real
honest evaluation of your business. And then what if your
evaluation is subtracted forty percent from it for taxes, business
broker if you go that route, right, accountants, you know,
(16:16):
you have tax advisors, you have all these things. And
then then see if you hit your retirement number, and
if you don't, then that will be that should be
a mindset changer. Hopefully that you know you you got
some work to do. I think mindsets change when they're
hit with reality. And that's that's the thing. That's only
thing I can say is that get out there and
get real with real numbers and understand.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
What's really going on.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, I mean, I know I've come across some business
owners where if they hit with that reality now all
of a sudden, they're depressed, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Sometimes they're like.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Wow, you know, I've been doing this, I've been on
this corner for the last and I remember when this
person was born, and you know all those things, like
you said, you hear all them.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Stories and how invested they really are.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
But unfortunately it's not as valuable as they consider, because
you know, the new owner won't have those type of memories,
they won't be that connected originally, you know. And so
I think those are things that I've heard that people
may not always understand, you know that, Hey, what we've
been doing for the last forty years is not optimal.
(17:19):
It's not efficient, and it's not as effective in our reality.
You know, we probably could reach a larger community if
we have other types of systems in place, you know.
So like you said something about, you know, hiring four
or five more people to do that one job.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
But that part right there says how.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Much I might have been undervalued myself because I love
this job, you know. And so there's a lot of
pieces to this that as I'm listening to, I'm like, wow,
like this, some people that I've come across really need
to evaluate how much they're involved in their company, like
(18:04):
you said, not out or on it.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I'm going to touch a little bit on the you know,
community piece, the connection piece, and I want to touch
a little bit on the value of the owner. So
that for the first piece is you know, the owner
has these connections with people.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
And they built these relationships for over a few years.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Why does the owner think that that those people will
value the relationship with the new owner in the same way,
And why does the old owner think that those relationships
will be just as valuable post sale as they were
pre sale. And you know, like so if if the owner,
the original owner had a forty year relationship with a supplier,
(18:47):
you know, they could go golfing and hang out and
talk and work the business out. But that supplier is
not going to have the same loyalty as to the
new owner, right and so you know, maybe that supplier
jacks up the prices, maybe they you know, not they
don't honor some of the agreements that were previously there,
and so you know, with that, the customer base is
not a loyal because it's not the same same owner,
(19:09):
and so you know, the owner can't expect the same
financial status to happen for the buyer as it did
for the owner. I mean, it's just it's just not plausible.
And then going back onto the ownership value piece, a
lot of times the owner when they first started the business,
they have to wear many hats, right and so and
so they've kind of learned how to wear many hats
(19:30):
and continue to wear many hats. But the problem is
sometimes the owner is doing a ten hour, ten dollars
an hour job that they could have outsourced to someone
and then they could use their time and skills to
generate five hundred dollars an hour in another skill that's
higher level within the business. And so what's going to
what happens with good buyers. They they understand what time
(19:51):
was valuable and what what time wasn't valuable, and they
outsourced to the right people for efficiency and they can
extract more value of business. And so my call to
the owner is is figure out where you can do this.
You might go from an eighty hour work week down
to thirty hour work week and then realize, hey, if
I hire another person, I can work ten hours a
week still kind of be semi retired, enjoy life and
(20:13):
never have to sell the business.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Anyways, it's like a paycheck.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
And so this kind of goes back to the other
option is like, well maybe you can keep it in
the family, passing down to kids, and so you kind
of going back to that legacy pieces really evaluate to
a hard valuation of like what your time is worth,
your employees times are worth, and that goes back to
you know, proper staffing and understanding the roles of the company.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
There's one word that you said, evan outsource. A lot
of us don't think about that word, you know, we
don't consider that word, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Because again we're so invested and we don't always know
where to go get to get the right type of
services for that word outsource. So so I think that's
something that we need to consider even more even more.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Well, you know, and if you're a business owner to
say you're a plumber, you've done been plumbing for forty years.
And then if I were to if I were a
customer and I told that business owner, Hey, I'm going
to hire a handyman and do my plumbing job, and
he's like, you know, one tenth of your price. Well
you're gonna say, well, you should hire an expert to
do the thing that like me as a plumber that
knows what we're doing, we'll get the job done quicker,
(21:19):
more efficiently. Of a warranty, you're guaranteed that this is
going to be fixed. If you hire a handyman, you
might have this problem come back later.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
But yet the.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Owners are handyman at accounting. The owners are a handyman
at you know, handing employees. Owners are handyman at negotiating deals,
and they're unwilling to hire outsource to the experts that
can really take care of them and bring them more
utility and time and value in their business. And so
(21:50):
it kind of goes kind of like you said mindsets.
So that's another mindset owners have is like, hey, I'm
just going to do it myself and figure it because.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
They're capable people, right, capable people.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
But the problem is that there's someone who's and doing that,
that that one thing for way longer, that can do
it better and maybe even cheaper. And so yeah, definitely
outsource if you can and retain some of that own
that value in your businesses.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
If you don't do, the buyer will right right.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Well, Evan, you know, I appreciate you coming on This
was fun man. I mean because these are things that
you know, we don't often talk about. You know, we
talk about the beginning stages of hey, you know, do
this and business plan and those type of things, but
we don't also consider the the end part quote unquote end,
you know, because that, like you said, it's just as important.
(22:38):
It's not primary, but it's just as important as anything else.
So I think you very much for coming on the show.
So with that being said, if someone has interest in
that and they don't understand really what they need to do,
like I said, I peruge your website, listen to other
things talk about you know, how to move maneuver. But
can you please let the listeners know where they can
find you and or are your information?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Yeah, so my name is Evan Polling. You can find
me on a lot of the socials. And then I
have a company called busretired dot com. And it kind
of goes back to your your your point about connecting.
You know, my my emails connect at bus retired dot
com because I connect business owners to business buyers and
business buyers and owners to experts that they need in
order to do the buying process. Well, the selling process well,
(23:24):
and the building of business as well. And so I'm
I'm kind of the connection point that helps connect everyone
together that needs to be connected, and so we do
that very very inexpensively.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
And add a lot of value.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
So I would love to meet with any owners and
even buyers and help them with that process.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, because I saw both of them, I'm like, hey,
do I want to buy something today?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You know? Do I want to sell? You know? Me considerate,
you know, but I think very much for coming on
the show.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Sure, no problem.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
But Evan, before we go, man, I gotta ask you
more question, my world famous question.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Would you rather the question? You ready?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
Yeah, yeah, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Would you rather choose three doors or a forking road?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:10):
This is a this is a tough one. I think
I would probably choose three doors. I think the illusion
of choice is actually not choice. It can be it
could be tough, and so I think the forking road
can help you doubt yourself and doubt your direction. But
three doors, whatever's behind the doors are there, and so
(24:32):
those are three more opportunities that you didn't have before.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
And so I think I would choose the three doors.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Okay, all right, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
You know, I thought you were going to say with
the three doors, you know, because I had another guest
who mentioned how the doors were glassed and they could
see through the you know doors and you know, the
doors were open things like that.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So I was like, all right, so which way is
Evan Gel ready go? You know with this? But you're right,
you know it is. It can be an illusion, you know, so,
but I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Sure, Thank you very much, And of course everyone, Eva's
information will be in the show notes and as I
stay that you can, Hey, if you're looking to buy
something you're looking to sell, talk to my man Evan.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I thank you very much for listening today and I'll
talk to you just a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Thanks for listening. Follow Maurice Chisholm on social media to
stay connected and check back weekly for new episodes until
next time. That will never work? Or will it
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