October 1, 2025 • 35 mins
Do your ideal clients know exactly who you are—and why you’re the one to help them?
In this episode of That Will Nevr Work, Maurice Chism sits down with Dennis Meador, a master of clarity in branding and positioning, to break down the often-overcomplicated world of expert marketing. Dennis explains how simplifying your message, your niche, and your approach can help the right clients find you faster—and say yes with confidence.
From common branding mistakes to the power of precision language, this conversation is packed with gems that can transform how you show up in your space. If you’re a coach, consultant, or creative expert struggling to clarify your position in the marketplace, this one’s for you.
🎧 Tune in and discover how less confusion = more conversion.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennismeador/
https://www.thelegalpodcastnetwork.com/
Resources:
In this episode of That Will Nevr Work, Maurice Chism sits down with Dennis Meador, a master of clarity in branding and positioning, to break down the often-overcomplicated world of expert marketing. Dennis explains how simplifying your message, your niche, and your approach can help the right clients find you faster—and say yes with confidence.
From common branding mistakes to the power of precision language, this conversation is packed with gems that can transform how you show up in your space. If you’re a coach, consultant, or creative expert struggling to clarify your position in the marketplace, this one’s for you.
🎧 Tune in and discover how less confusion = more conversion.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennismeador/
https://www.thelegalpodcastnetwork.com/
Resources:
- Well Why Not Workbook: https://bit.ly/authormauricechism
- Podmatch: https://bit.ly/joinpodmatchwithmaurice
- *FREE* 5 Bold Shifts to help you silence doubt and start moving: https://bit.ly/5boldshifts
- Maurice Chism: https://bit.ly/CoachMaurice
- Website: https://bit.ly/mauricechism
- To be a guest: https://bit.ly/beaguestonthatwillnevrworkpodcast
- Business Email: mchism@chismgroup.net
- Business Address: PO Box 460, Secane, PA 19018
- Spreaker: https://bit.ly/TWNWSpreaker
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I thank you very much for tuning in to that
Well Neverwork podcast? Are your ideal clients passing you by?
Not because you're not good, but because you're not clear?
Today I have Dennis aka DM, who's going to break
down how simplifying your message is the fastest way to
(00:21):
grow your business. We'll talk about it right after this.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Educate, empower, enable impact. Thank you for tuning in to
that Will Never Work, an award winning podcast where we
share inspiring information and personal experiences related to business and
the entrepreneurial journey from those who are leaders in their
respective field. Now here's your host, author and business coach
(00:50):
Maurice I.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Thank y'all for tuning in. So if you heard I am,
I have a special guest. His name is actually Dennis, right,
but we're going to use the cooler name of DM
because the information that he's going to give is going
to make sure that it gets right to the heart
of your your being, your essence, your authenticity and so
(01:13):
and we're friends. We're best friends right now. So here's
the thing though, you know, so it's so Dennis right.
So many experts are talented, but they struggle to get traction.
So why do you believe clarity and positioning, not just skill,
is the key to attracting ideal clients.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Because positioning is the perception that the community has in you.
It's how the people that are coming to you are
going to approach you. A lot of people approach their
marketing or branding from a standpoint of this is who
I am, this is what I am going to emanate,
this is what my brand says, this is and it's
all from me outwards. The problem is we now have
(01:57):
content music almost every four of media is centered around
very niche specific individuals.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
You can.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You know, I love documentaries, and years ago, if I
wanted to watch documentary, like you know, I had to
come across one somewhere, you know, whatever TV to find
one that I like. Now I just you know, have
four or five different things, you know, HBO, Max and
Netflix and Prime and just I just flipped through them
and it's like, I've got millions and so and I
like to watch cult podcasts. Those are my favorite ones,
(02:27):
and so finding these podcasts used to be near impossible.
But if you think about that, now apply that principle
to pretty much every area of life.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Now apply that.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Principle to your business is your business perceived as something
for somebody specific. When you look at a show, when
you look at whatever it is, or you look at
a restaurant, you know specifically who that is for what
they're doing. Some of the worst considered or worst you know,
(02:59):
rated restaurants, the restaurants that they specialize in nothing.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
You know, I don't know if you've ever what's the place?
The cheese cake factory.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Everybody the cheesecake factory. We got like an eighty seven
page menu. They make everything from like tacos to like,
you know, I don't know German schnitzel, right, and you're
just like, where is this menu going? And so, because
people have that learned behavior of listen, if I want
what I want, I know what I want, I know
what I need. If they don't find that, then they
(03:32):
are not going to be as open to.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Maybe their initial perception.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
And here's what I mean by that, if I don't
find the exact kind of attorney that I want. My
perception was initially pretty much all attorneys are the same.
If he can, if he or she can help me,
they're an attorney, then that's you know. So now if
they're all pretty much the same. What's the only differentiator
their cost? And so when we don't define who our
(04:02):
client is, we become a commoditized service. Because people don't
buy logos anymore. They don't buy pitty commercials. They buy relationships,
they buy trust, they buy connection, they buy resonance, And
so we have to create the opportunity for them to
(04:22):
see us as that very specific.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Person who can meet their very specific need.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
And sometimes when we first jump out into the entrepreneur space,
we want to help everybody because that's how we feel, right.
We want to, you know, make a difference in the world.
But that's so broad and so and because of that,
you know, and I'll just use again my background when
(04:51):
we talked in the green room. Hey, you know what
I'm gonna do flyers, right, you know, but we think
flyers are going to be for everybody, But no, they,
like you stated as, focus on one place, one group,
one genre, whatever it is. Because every flyer the way
you you created club flyer might not go for a church,
you know, that type of design, you know, And so
(05:15):
how do we understand that if we go into the
market or a particular market, our perceived market that is
the right one, especially if no one told us or
talk to us about that.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I think there's a couple of things, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
One of the things that I've always done, and you know,
I've been an entrepreneur since I was fourteen years old,
so technically thirty four years, but let's get to you
know that was I basically ran like all the lawn raking,
you know, shoveling and paper routes. I would, I owned
them all and then I resold them basically fifty percent
back to kids in my neighborhood who would do the jobs.
(05:53):
So but my first you know, when I got into
real business, I got into marketing and media. And one
of the things that I've always done is usually about
the first hundred clients or the first six months or
the first year, is I like to get in and
I like to develop kind of around it. I think
that it will be this, and then take it to market.
(06:16):
Listen to people, see who it most resonates with within
that within that general market, See who starts to express
interest and ask questions, and what the questions they're asking.
Just a little you know, tip about building your sales processes.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
As a as.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
A founder, who's leading the charge you start then to
create a sales process that answers the questions for the
individuals before they ask them, because I if I answer
your question before you've asked it, I'm a consultant. But
if I answer your question after you've asked it, I'm
(06:55):
a salesperson. And so what I always courage business owners
to do is I say, listen, sit down, and think
of two or three categories that this would work for
that in your mind, you're like, you know what, this
is the easy one. Because usually when you talk to
a business owner and they're like and you say, well,
who's it four, and they say, oh, everybody. This can
help everybody in the whole wide world. And you know
(07:17):
seven billion people are going to buy it in and
you know seven billion people bought it for only a dollar,
I would be the eighteen richest person in the world.
And it's like, hold up, slow your role, Like, let's
back up a little bit. You have to have one
client before you have ten, you have to have ten
before fifty, and so on and so forth. So many
people jump into the entrepreneur thing because our head can
(07:39):
be in the clouds and we tend to see what things.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Will be, not what they are. That we can lose
grounding on that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So then once we get in and we start talking
to people and we start presenting our product, some people
that we thought it was a home run for we
find resistance. Some people that we thought maybe marginally about.
I'll give it a try, we'll take to it, and
we'll love it. And then as I'm doing that, the
branding is built around me.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
I'm the company. I'm the brand.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Now as I get enough customers in, I've identified my
client profile based on experience. Now I'm bringing them in
as clients. Now I see which kind of these make
the best clients. So finding your ideal client profile is
not just finding who's going to buy. It's going to
find who's going to sustain and be the most profitable
(08:32):
over time. And I think some people forget that the
easiest to buy now. So we've got filter one, which
is take it to market ourselves, find out the questions, overcome,
and then niche down as we see the need.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
But then once we.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Bring those people in as clients, now we can maybe
set some people into our sales process that we've developed
because we know it's sellable, not based off the fact
of my charisma, but on a repeatable process with scripting
and tools and cadences.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
And everything else in place.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Now I move to the second half of determining my client,
and that is seeing which clients create the least amount
of friction when I do things right.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Now, if you're growing and you mess up, that's you know,
that's a false positive. You got to cast that to
the side.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
But which of my client, which of my client types
create the least amount of friction internally?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
How do they treat my team?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
How do they respond to the things that you know,
we just need them, Like with us, we do a
turnkey podcast, right, so we need them to just say
looks good, send it off right, and it'll just sit
in their inbox. So we had to create a whole
new contract that said we're sending it to you on
Monday morning. If by Thursday at eleven am Central you
haven't sent it back, we're assuming that you looked at
it and.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
It was great.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
It's called auto approval. And they're all like, okay, that's fine.
You know, so you have to look at that second part,
which is which client creates the least amount of friction,
and then third is which client brings the most profit.
So there's really three parts to finding your ideal client,
and so many people think finding my ideal client is
(10:10):
finding the person who will buy sales, will start a company,
but it will not sustain it. And so many people
forget that, especially with reputation, the reputation age that we have.
If you fuck up way too much, and if this
is on, if.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
You mess up way too much, they can cut the
one for the other.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But if you mess up way too much, then you
know you're putting yourself in a position where you know
you have to own up to it. But again, that's
how I would tell somebody that's a serious entrepreneur those
three things to look at, and once you find the
filter of those three, now you start digging deep on
that client type.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So there's one thing that you're speaking and I understand
it because I've been through this, right, I understand that
the process. But for those of you that that that
are listening, I wonder if you have this question, DM,
did you just crush my dream? Like you know you're
telling me because you're asking all these questions and because
(11:16):
I got a no, Sometimes that first no crushes us.
Sometimes that second no crushes us. Because keep in mind
that you know, for every ten, you might get one, right,
for every you know, for every twenty you might get two,
you know, whatever the ratio might be. So, so how
do I stay motivated in understanding who my ideal client is?
(11:38):
Especially if I feel as though that I have the
idea of you know, I build it, they will come right.
But you're telling me that might not be possible. Possible,
you know, that might not be a possibility. So how
do I keep my dream alive without it being crushed
every every note that I get? Well?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I mean, I think that's a basic question that anybody
and any sort of sales capacity can ask themselves.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
You know, how do I get through the day with no's?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And again, I think it's it's as an entrepreneur, it's
always looking at where you know you'll be, so there
is belief, so to you, to some people, a no
is crushing to other people who've been especially in that industry.
And as I told you about my background, listen, I've
gotten more nos in forty eight years than most people
could get in five hundred in my life. And I'm
(12:27):
not just being like facetious like I've literally been in
cold calling sales ministry and when I was in ministry.
We knocked on doors, we went out into the streets
and talked to people like we weren't those like, you know,
nice Christians. We were those like, you know, not quite
the picketing abortion type. But anyway, the point is this,
(12:48):
I'm conditioned for no. To me, A no is just
like it's just like if I look up at the
top of a hiking hill, A no is just a
step that I make. It's not it's like, if you're
gonna walk, you're gonna hike up this beautiful hill. We
went to Vermont a couple of summers ago, me and
my now wife, and we were supposed to hike up
(13:10):
this hill in Vermont, and it was pretty steep and
at the time, you know, I wasn't quite I've lost
some weight, but I hadn't lost as much weight as
I have now, So I mean just you know, walking
up three flights of steps.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Was like.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
But at the top of this hill was this overlook
that like overlooked this beautiful mountainous valley, green and lush,
and then ride at the edge like the it was
this spot that like the sunset down into this little
crevice and created these beautiful colors in between mountaintops, and
it was so great, and I had seen pictures ahead
(13:47):
of time, and my wife's like, this climb is gonna
be worth it. I slipped twice, I cut up my knee.
A weird dog came out of nowhere and hung out
with me for a while, Like it was. It was
an adventure to get there. And most entrepreneurs either have
or should cultivate the ability to see the sunset watch
(14:12):
instead of the rock slide.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Wow. Wow, I wonder if can you repeat that one
more time? DM, because I don't know if people hurt
in the back, can.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
You say one more time beginning?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
No? No, just just that last part, just that last part,
all right, because because the reality is is that sometimes
when we see that rock slide, we get a little right,
We see that because it's it's coming towards us, right not.
(14:46):
And and sometimes in those situations we do not we
don't necessarily analyze or process that information is coming to
us because it feels like it's coming to us so
fast and furious and fear, you know, and so we
get a little scared, we get a little timid, you
know whatever. So but the rock slide is all about
(15:07):
your how you perceive it, because those rocks may not
be as big as you think just because they're coming down,
don't you know, you see them coming, But you might
be able to just take a step to the left
and watch it go past you, you know. And so
those are type of things that you know, as we're
talking about finding our ideal client, that in those nose
(15:28):
it's just them going right past you, right.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Just a step to the s it's just a step
to the sunset, right.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah. But but sometimes we don't see that, We don't
we don't get that feeling because of that and or
and then you talk about the strange doll. There are
other moments that we see these situations that we don't
understand that maybe for that one moment that one potential
client is walking with us, you just don't know who
(15:56):
it is. Or there might be a message that we
might need to hear from that individual that's going to
help us move forward because maybe you know, maybe we're
filling the loan. The dog could be a you know,
a metaphor for a friendly you know, commune dam or
whatever it is, right exactly, you know, But sometimes we
don't take those those cues, you know, as we're looking
(16:17):
for that that client for that community in all reality,
because we're looking for we're talking about external community, but
we also have an internal community as well, and we
don't always consider that at the same time.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Well, and I think, you know, anything great that's come
from nothing has come from the vision of one individual
who refused to give up until it existed. And so
whether that's a business, whether that's a media thing, if
I mean just read stories and anything great that's been
in Like, you know, we can hate Zuckerberg, we can
love Zuckerberg, but he was eighteen years old sitting in
(16:56):
that thing while everyone else, I mean, what was a
Harvard right, While everyone else is getting the girls and
getting the drinks and getting everything, you know, just living
it up, partying, him and his friends are just coding
in a room. And he continues to drive that even
what we see happening now with AI and his buyout
of like bringing people in to basically be like Nope,
(17:17):
I refuse to get passed up.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
I'll pay somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
They just paid somebody a graduate student two hundred and
fifty million or two hundred million dollar contract or two
fifty it's the largest employment contract in history he's an
AI genius, and so what is he doing? He sees
something that we don't see, and he is driving towards
(17:39):
that thing, regardless of the what an idiot to pay
some kid out of college two hundred and fifty million
dollars blah blah blah, because he knows that that kid
can make him two hundred and fifty billion dollars right right?
And so it's it's the very old adage where when
we don't have a vision, we fail, you know. And
(18:02):
so that's what I would tell the entrepreneur that gets
discouraged is I would say, put your head up, look
to where you want to go, where you intend to go,
and everything else is just stones in the pathway that
you might have to kick out of the way or
walk around, but they're still there.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
But how do we not get so laser focused and
understand because that individual might not have been on Zuckerberg's
real radar, you know. And so because we say, hey,
we are the genius, where the whatever it is? Look,
Zuckerberry make all his money? Did he really need another person?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Ah?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
But like you stayed in though, where is he trying?
Where does his true vision for his organization? What is
he trying to get ahead of where? What is he
seeing that? Like you said that the us mia mortals
are not you know, you know, So how do we
pull back a little bit and be able to listen
and and look through our peripheral and all those types
(19:01):
of things. How do we stay open minded in that
space as well and not just be so lazier focused.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Well, I think the focus is on the goal. The
open mindedness is in the moment. So you're always learning
in the moment, but you're always heading towards something, you know.
So it's again like any life's journey. It's like we're
gonna take a Hey, kids, get in the car. We're
gonna take a road trip across the United States. The
journey isn't the destination.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
The destination isn't the destination. It's the journey along the way, right.
And so although the whole time in our mind we're
going from New York to LA and we'll just use
the simple illustration, we're going from New York to La.
Where the real joy is is when we stop off
at you know, soda pops in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and
there's eight hundred kinds of soda and classic cheeseburgers and
(19:50):
the kids are running around taking a picture with a
hundred foot tall soda pop bottle, right right, man, Like
that's where the memories come from from those trips as children, right,
And it's the same thing again. Just apply that to
the entrepreneurial journey. You're always looking to the end place.
But that doesn't mean that you don't enjoy the now.
You just have a destination mapped out and that's where
you're going no matter what.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Right. And I think in those moments, those unexpected bathroom trips, hey,
you know, you never know who you're gonna watch hands
with why you're in the bathroom, right, You never know
who you're gonna while you and Roy Rogers getting you know,
or getting your hush puppies or whatever it might be.
You never know who's in line with you or who's
behind the counter. You have zero idea who you're want
(20:31):
to run into. And I think that's the things that
we don't understand sometimes within this journey, Like you said,
whether it's from San fran to Boston, that's a long trip,
So how many stops are you going to make along
the way? And I think those are things that we
don't consider as as we're starting out.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
You know, I could give you a business illustration of that,
because from when you're into business with this. So we
started a little over a year ago, we now have
with me and my va, we now have forty people.
We have one hundred and fifty clients. We do about
little over two hundred and some odd shows a month
plus internal. We have our arr is on track. We
did a million our first year. We're probably due two
(21:10):
two and a half this year. And so like here's
a perfect I think illustration of that. When I first started,
in my mind, my clients were because we build this
network in one of the things we do is we
use exclusivity, and so we say, like in Chicago, we'll
have one criminal defense, one divorce, one estate planning and
probate lawyer, one IP patent trademark lawyer, one business you know,
(21:35):
so basically, and there's about ten or twelve archetypes of
lawyers that we have, and so I figured we would
just you know, there's two hundred and fifty markets with
two hundred thousand people or more, which gives you enough
competition for the attorneys to what need to be differentiated
because some guy in the middle of Nowhere'sville, Arkansas, this
is no.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Like nothing against him.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
But if I'm in Nowhere'sville, Arkansas, there's thirty thousand people
in the in the county and two attorneys, I don't
really need something like this unless I'm a PI attorney
and I want to expand into like fifteen counties and
get no. So but that was my archetype originally, like
you talked about.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
But then as I.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Got into this and I started selling it, I started
talking to people and we started marketing. We started having
a couple of different types of other clients that are
in the same industry comes to us. One was national
based attorneys with very niche types of practices.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
For example, one of our guys does f.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
FDA compliance and tariffs, which you know, no, and that's
not hasn't been in the news at all this year,
so he probably didn't have a very successful campaign with us, right,
I mean, like it was for tudous timing for him
and for us to launch a show basically in January,
I think with him talking about tariffs, because he's exploded
(22:50):
and done well with it. So again I thought I
was only working with local Now I'm working with National.
Then I started having people that weren't attorneys, but they
served them like, Hey, I'm a fractional chief marketing officer.
I'm a fractional chief financial officer. I do you know finance?
I do like personal finance for lawyers? I do I
(23:11):
have an AI system for lawyers?
Speaker 4 (23:13):
What can I do?
Speaker 3 (23:14):
And so now we have I don't know, maybe fifteen
or twenty of those clients, so ten percent of our
client base. And what's wonderful about that is we can
now in working with these people who provide value to
our core client base, we're actually being paid to produce
content for our own clients to work with us. Because
(23:36):
we then put we basically say, hey, let's have a
sponsored show. Will sponsor you, We'll you know, give you
this discount or however it works.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
We just want the.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
People that are watching this show to know that we
did it for you and we can help them. And
so I had no idea that that was not something
in my mind that was going to become a thing.
But now those two pieces of our client base are
extremely important pieces of our company.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
So so I want y'all to listen. There's multiple layers
to what d us said, because he had a idea,
and then don't be afraid to speak. Don't be afraid
to talk, you know, as you stated, because because again
we get sol layers or focused that we only want
IP you know, attorneys, right, you know. Or but then
(24:29):
you went into another space that where this individual is
talking about tarots, which you never know what's going to
take off, right, you know. And so so I just
want y'all to listen to to the ideas that are
put out there. Because even he talked U, DM talked
about attorneys, but DM, you also talked about all the
(24:50):
other layers of that organization. You know, they're you know,
fractional CFOs or you know, whatever it might be. I mean,
And for those of you who are out there, say, hey,
you know what, I don't have that level talk to
the pairalalegals, Like there's other people within the office that
you could talk to, you know that that might be
able to assist. So I want you to understand that
(25:11):
there are a lot of levels in everything that DM
is saying. And DM, I really appreciate you coming on
and talking to us because I really want you all
to hear and be encouraged. And no matter what level
you're on, all you gotta do is just be open minded.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Listen. You know I'll say this.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
People will look at where I'm at and say, but
I'm a guy who I had some health issues at
thirty six. I spent almost a year and a half
in bed thinking I had MS. During that time, I
had to come up with a way to provide for
my family because I'd always been the provider.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
So this is back in like.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I guess this is two thousand and nine, ten somewhere around,
so about ten fifteen years ago or about fifteen years
ago or so, I came up with this little What
I did is I got a hold of a big
national news paper company. There was still a lot of
little community papers, and I basically signed a contract for
quarter million dollars of ad space across the whole country,
(26:08):
a page at a time. Because so, what I did
is I then would take two afternoons a week. I
had a full time writer and a Filipino va and
a Filipino cold caller, so I had three people working
for me, but I physically could only work about eight
ten hours a week. But because and think about, all
I did was call it people and say Hey, we're
(26:31):
putting this series of articles in your newspaper. Blah blah
blah blah. You know it's gonna be in this newspaper.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
You'll be this. It's this much money.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I ran an eighty percent profit margin after paying my
people working ten hours a week, And so it doesn't
matter what level you're on.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
If you've got ten hours and an idea and.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
You could tag a few people onto it, you can
make that work because over time that idea you'll learn
how to control and grow one to three people. Or
now I can have forty fifty sixty people. I have
forty people on my team, and I can just literally,
you know, now, I just spend my time, like you know,
looking at this like reports, meeting, training, and dealing with
(27:11):
issues until I want to have a CEO or.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
General manager step step in.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
So you don't get to a place that you've never
been usually right away, right you have to go to similar,
yet less intense situations in order to be prepared. Because
I remember when I was twenty three to twenty five
(27:37):
and I had thirty people working for me, and I
would lose sleepover payroll.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
I don't lose lose as a forty eight year old.
I don't lose sleepover, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Like I used to just like be crushed with the
weight of all these people depending on my ideas and
execution there you know, finances right, And it used to
be a crushing weight. But as I've grown older, I
began to realize that I built up that muscle, the
muscle of being able to fail, the muscle being able
(28:06):
to learn from failure, the muscle being able to apply
what I've learned from failure and be better the next time.
And that's the path, the true path, the entrepreneurship. Average
first generation millionaire is over fifty years old, has three
failed businesses, and has filed bankruptcy two and a half times.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
That's the average first generation millionaire.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
So those people were willing to go through those tragedy,
through those trying times to get where they were. And
I every single every single person started on a smaller
scale and either failed or had success until it failed,
or they stepped away and didn't enjoy it, or whatever
it was. So don't look at someone that you perceive whoever,
(28:47):
and I'm just speaking to the listener, don't look at
somebody that you perceived as having an advantage over you.
I've always looked at it this way. We're both humans.
If you can do it, I can do it. That's
all there is to it.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Now.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
It's taken me a very long time to have the
knowledge set that I have, but I committed to habits
and kept committing to habits.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
So so once again, DM like you keep dropping these nuggets,
bro Like, sorry, man, But for the people that are
listening today that are afraid of afraid of failure, afraid
of you know, hey, maybe I don't know what to say,
(29:33):
what to do, I'm not focused enough to find out,
or I'm or I'm afraid of hearing the nose. I
don't know the right process to understand how to get
to my right client. You know, whatever feedback loops I
need to create, or forecasting benchmark, whatever it is. Damn,
where can they find you and talk to you about
any of these pieces for them to move forward to?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Dennis Metter, you know that's an easy place with me there.
You know, I do a lot of writing there, put
my videos out from podcasts.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
All that fun stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
So if you want to connect with me personally, that's
the place, And if you want to connect with my company,
the Legal Podcastnetwork dot com. Check it out, you know,
and you can connect there. Look at testimonials, client work,
all of that.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Nice. Nice, So so DM. Before I let you go,
I gotta ask you a question I ask everybody. Would
you rather question? Use your imagination? You know, no parameters?
So would you rather choose three doors or a fork
in a road?
Speaker 4 (30:42):
I would rather choose a fork.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
In a road any particular reason?
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Why? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Because I feel like with a fork in the road,
you can always go back to that fork and start over.
But if you go in through a door, they might
all three be locked when you come back to them. Hm.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Now keep in mind, I says your imagination, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
It's my imagination.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well why would you lock them back?
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Well? I didn't lock them. I'm just saying, right, like
my mind if i'm if I'm at a crossroads.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Instead of saying there's one's right and one's wrong, what
I say is one's a lesson and one's right.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Mmmm.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Maybe I need to go down the wrong path and
learn the lesson, but I need to pass so I
can always come back. Whereas you never know what's gonna
happen with doors lock jammed, You could go in there
and somebody else's standing in the room.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
I mean, there's just a million sting.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Variables with three doors, and the fact that if you'd
have said three three paths or two.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
But you put a door on it. What you put
a door on it? That changes the whole dynamic.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
My friend, Now, now, because it is your imagination, maybe
all three doors have candy at the end of it.
I don't know, you know, they don't have to be locked.
Maybe they're maybe all the locks have been removed. Maybe,
I mean, maybe it's just a doorway and not the
actual door.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Okay, do you want I know really why I went.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
The first time I went to a haunted house, I
was twelve years old. My friend brings me in and
I'm like, I've never been to something like it before
to an extent, right, So we get in there, twelve
year olds, you know that awkward age.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
And I go in.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I think I'm in seventh grade and I go in,
and we go through this and that and ah. But
then we take this door into this room. And when
we walked into the room, it was all doors. Every
door we opened. Guess what happened?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
It was a dead end. Monster came somebody jumped out.
I mean, that's what happened to me.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Came out, another monster came out.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
So by the time we're sitting there with five doors open,
I'm just curled up in the corner, laughing out of
fear until I went my pants as a twelve year old,
and then I had to go to my friend and
his mom had to cover me with the twent I
had to.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Get in the car. So I don't want to go
into any room.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Full of Oh no, I can understand it. I mean,
first of all, I don't even go into a horned house.
I mean I went to a haunted house with my friends.
And we were in Canada for whatever. We was up
there on a church event and so we were the
event was in Buffalo, but we decided to go to
Niagara Falls. It was in the fall, and we went
on the main strip in Canada and it was a
haunted house. We're like, hey, you know what, we don't
(33:19):
have anything else to do. We're seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old.
We didn't go and do this. We go in and
as soon as we turned the corner, somebody jumped out
at me. Now, unfortunately, I'm from Philadelphia, and so I did.
I did because he got so close, you know, and
really it was more so for me to push him away,
(33:41):
but he was right up on me, so yeah, it
was it was way too close, and everybody laughed. How
am I going? I didn't know, and I didn't see
him y'all pushed me ahead, you know, and you know,
of course, you know we're trying to be cool for
some girls or whatever anyway, but.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
That's all another story, everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I didn't I know, right, right, right, but no, but
you know, but DM, I think very much for coming
on the show today.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Man, Absolutely, it's been a real joy, my friend.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Sure think and everyone. Of course, all the DM's information
will be in the show notes. So if you're walking, running, hiking,
going up that mountain looking down those rocks, you know,
because you're looking again, I say, looking down right, you're
looking at what you've already passed. So I thank y'all
very much for listening today, for listening to that When
that Word podcast, and of course i'll talk to you
(34:35):
just a little bit later.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Thanks for listening. Follow Maurice Chisholm on social media to
stay connected and check back weekly for new episodes until
next time. That will never work, or will it
I thank you very much for tuning in to that
Well Neverwork podcast? Are your ideal clients passing you by?
Not because you're not good, but because you're not clear?
Today I have Dennis aka DM, who's going to break
down how simplifying your message is the fastest way to
(00:21):
grow your business. We'll talk about it right after this.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Educate, empower, enable impact. Thank you for tuning in to
that Will Never Work, an award winning podcast where we
share inspiring information and personal experiences related to business and
the entrepreneurial journey from those who are leaders in their
respective field. Now here's your host, author and business coach
(00:50):
Maurice I.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Thank y'all for tuning in. So if you heard I am,
I have a special guest. His name is actually Dennis, right,
but we're going to use the cooler name of DM
because the information that he's going to give is going
to make sure that it gets right to the heart
of your your being, your essence, your authenticity and so
(01:13):
and we're friends. We're best friends right now. So here's
the thing though, you know, so it's so Dennis right.
So many experts are talented, but they struggle to get traction.
So why do you believe clarity and positioning, not just skill,
is the key to attracting ideal clients.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Because positioning is the perception that the community has in you.
It's how the people that are coming to you are
going to approach you. A lot of people approach their
marketing or branding from a standpoint of this is who
I am, this is what I am going to emanate,
this is what my brand says, this is and it's
all from me outwards. The problem is we now have
(01:57):
content music almost every four of media is centered around
very niche specific individuals.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
You can.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You know, I love documentaries, and years ago, if I
wanted to watch documentary, like you know, I had to
come across one somewhere, you know, whatever TV to find
one that I like. Now I just you know, have
four or five different things, you know, HBO, Max and
Netflix and Prime and just I just flipped through them
and it's like, I've got millions and so and I
like to watch cult podcasts. Those are my favorite ones,
(02:27):
and so finding these podcasts used to be near impossible.
But if you think about that, now apply that principle
to pretty much every area of life.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Now apply that.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Principle to your business is your business perceived as something
for somebody specific. When you look at a show, when
you look at whatever it is, or you look at
a restaurant, you know specifically who that is for what
they're doing. Some of the worst considered or worst you know,
(02:59):
rated restaurants, the restaurants that they specialize in nothing.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
You know, I don't know if you've ever what's the place?
The cheese cake factory.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Everybody the cheesecake factory. We got like an eighty seven
page menu. They make everything from like tacos to like,
you know, I don't know German schnitzel, right, and you're
just like, where is this menu going? And so, because
people have that learned behavior of listen, if I want
what I want, I know what I want, I know
what I need. If they don't find that, then they
(03:32):
are not going to be as open to.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Maybe their initial perception.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
And here's what I mean by that, if I don't
find the exact kind of attorney that I want. My
perception was initially pretty much all attorneys are the same.
If he can, if he or she can help me,
they're an attorney, then that's you know. So now if
they're all pretty much the same. What's the only differentiator
their cost? And so when we don't define who our
(04:02):
client is, we become a commoditized service. Because people don't
buy logos anymore. They don't buy pitty commercials. They buy relationships,
they buy trust, they buy connection, they buy resonance, And
so we have to create the opportunity for them to
(04:22):
see us as that very specific.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Person who can meet their very specific need.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
And sometimes when we first jump out into the entrepreneur space,
we want to help everybody because that's how we feel, right.
We want to, you know, make a difference in the world.
But that's so broad and so and because of that,
you know, and I'll just use again my background when
(04:51):
we talked in the green room. Hey, you know what
I'm gonna do flyers, right, you know, but we think
flyers are going to be for everybody, But no, they,
like you stated as, focus on one place, one group,
one genre, whatever it is. Because every flyer the way
you you created club flyer might not go for a church,
you know, that type of design, you know, And so
(05:15):
how do we understand that if we go into the
market or a particular market, our perceived market that is
the right one, especially if no one told us or
talk to us about that.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I think there's a couple of things, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
One of the things that I've always done, and you know,
I've been an entrepreneur since I was fourteen years old,
so technically thirty four years, but let's get to you
know that was I basically ran like all the lawn raking,
you know, shoveling and paper routes. I would, I owned
them all and then I resold them basically fifty percent
back to kids in my neighborhood who would do the jobs.
(05:53):
So but my first you know, when I got into
real business, I got into marketing and media. And one
of the things that I've always done is usually about
the first hundred clients or the first six months or
the first year, is I like to get in and
I like to develop kind of around it. I think
that it will be this, and then take it to market.
(06:16):
Listen to people, see who it most resonates with within
that within that general market, See who starts to express
interest and ask questions, and what the questions they're asking.
Just a little you know, tip about building your sales processes.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
As a as.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
A founder, who's leading the charge you start then to
create a sales process that answers the questions for the
individuals before they ask them, because I if I answer
your question before you've asked it, I'm a consultant. But
if I answer your question after you've asked it, I'm
(06:55):
a salesperson. And so what I always courage business owners
to do is I say, listen, sit down, and think
of two or three categories that this would work for
that in your mind, you're like, you know what, this
is the easy one. Because usually when you talk to
a business owner and they're like and you say, well,
who's it four, and they say, oh, everybody. This can
help everybody in the whole wide world. And you know
(07:17):
seven billion people are going to buy it in and
you know seven billion people bought it for only a dollar,
I would be the eighteen richest person in the world.
And it's like, hold up, slow your role, Like, let's
back up a little bit. You have to have one
client before you have ten, you have to have ten
before fifty, and so on and so forth. So many
people jump into the entrepreneur thing because our head can
(07:39):
be in the clouds and we tend to see what things.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Will be, not what they are. That we can lose
grounding on that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So then once we get in and we start talking
to people and we start presenting our product, some people
that we thought it was a home run for we
find resistance. Some people that we thought maybe marginally about.
I'll give it a try, we'll take to it, and
we'll love it. And then as I'm doing that, the
branding is built around me.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
I'm the company. I'm the brand.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Now as I get enough customers in, I've identified my
client profile based on experience. Now I'm bringing them in
as clients. Now I see which kind of these make
the best clients. So finding your ideal client profile is
not just finding who's going to buy. It's going to
find who's going to sustain and be the most profitable
(08:32):
over time. And I think some people forget that the
easiest to buy now. So we've got filter one, which
is take it to market ourselves, find out the questions, overcome,
and then niche down as we see the need.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
But then once we.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Bring those people in as clients, now we can maybe
set some people into our sales process that we've developed
because we know it's sellable, not based off the fact
of my charisma, but on a repeatable process with scripting
and tools and cadences.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
And everything else in place.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Now I move to the second half of determining my client,
and that is seeing which clients create the least amount
of friction when I do things right.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Now, if you're growing and you mess up, that's you know,
that's a false positive. You got to cast that to
the side.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
But which of my client, which of my client types
create the least amount of friction internally?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
How do they treat my team?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
How do they respond to the things that you know,
we just need them, Like with us, we do a
turnkey podcast, right, so we need them to just say
looks good, send it off right, and it'll just sit
in their inbox. So we had to create a whole
new contract that said we're sending it to you on
Monday morning. If by Thursday at eleven am Central you
haven't sent it back, we're assuming that you looked at
it and.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
It was great.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
It's called auto approval. And they're all like, okay, that's fine.
You know, so you have to look at that second part,
which is which client creates the least amount of friction,
and then third is which client brings the most profit.
So there's really three parts to finding your ideal client,
and so many people think finding my ideal client is
(10:10):
finding the person who will buy sales, will start a company,
but it will not sustain it. And so many people
forget that, especially with reputation, the reputation age that we have.
If you fuck up way too much, and if this
is on, if.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
You mess up way too much, they can cut the
one for the other.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But if you mess up way too much, then you
know you're putting yourself in a position where you know
you have to own up to it. But again, that's
how I would tell somebody that's a serious entrepreneur those
three things to look at, and once you find the
filter of those three, now you start digging deep on
that client type.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So there's one thing that you're speaking and I understand
it because I've been through this, right, I understand that
the process. But for those of you that that that
are listening, I wonder if you have this question, DM,
did you just crush my dream? Like you know you're
telling me because you're asking all these questions and because
(11:16):
I got a no, Sometimes that first no crushes us.
Sometimes that second no crushes us. Because keep in mind
that you know, for every ten, you might get one, right,
for every you know, for every twenty you might get two,
you know, whatever the ratio might be. So, so how
do I stay motivated in understanding who my ideal client is?
(11:38):
Especially if I feel as though that I have the
idea of you know, I build it, they will come right.
But you're telling me that might not be possible. Possible,
you know, that might not be a possibility. So how
do I keep my dream alive without it being crushed
every every note that I get? Well?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I mean, I think that's a basic question that anybody
and any sort of sales capacity can ask themselves.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
You know, how do I get through the day with no's?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And again, I think it's it's as an entrepreneur, it's
always looking at where you know you'll be, so there
is belief, so to you, to some people, a no
is crushing to other people who've been especially in that industry.
And as I told you about my background, listen, I've
gotten more nos in forty eight years than most people
could get in five hundred in my life. And I'm
(12:27):
not just being like facetious like I've literally been in
cold calling sales ministry and when I was in ministry.
We knocked on doors, we went out into the streets
and talked to people like we weren't those like, you know,
nice Christians. We were those like, you know, not quite
the picketing abortion type. But anyway, the point is this,
(12:48):
I'm conditioned for no. To me, A no is just
like it's just like if I look up at the
top of a hiking hill, A no is just a
step that I make. It's not it's like, if you're
gonna walk, you're gonna hike up this beautiful hill. We
went to Vermont a couple of summers ago, me and
my now wife, and we were supposed to hike up
(13:10):
this hill in Vermont, and it was pretty steep and
at the time, you know, I wasn't quite I've lost
some weight, but I hadn't lost as much weight as
I have now, So I mean just you know, walking
up three flights of steps.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Was like.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
But at the top of this hill was this overlook
that like overlooked this beautiful mountainous valley, green and lush,
and then ride at the edge like the it was
this spot that like the sunset down into this little
crevice and created these beautiful colors in between mountaintops, and
it was so great, and I had seen pictures ahead
(13:47):
of time, and my wife's like, this climb is gonna
be worth it. I slipped twice, I cut up my knee.
A weird dog came out of nowhere and hung out
with me for a while, Like it was. It was
an adventure to get there. And most entrepreneurs either have
or should cultivate the ability to see the sunset watch
(14:12):
instead of the rock slide.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Wow. Wow, I wonder if can you repeat that one
more time? DM, because I don't know if people hurt
in the back, can.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
You say one more time beginning?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
No? No, just just that last part, just that last part,
all right, because because the reality is is that sometimes
when we see that rock slide, we get a little right,
We see that because it's it's coming towards us, right not.
(14:46):
And and sometimes in those situations we do not we
don't necessarily analyze or process that information is coming to
us because it feels like it's coming to us so
fast and furious and fear, you know, and so we
get a little scared, we get a little timid, you
know whatever. So but the rock slide is all about
(15:07):
your how you perceive it, because those rocks may not
be as big as you think just because they're coming down,
don't you know, you see them coming, But you might
be able to just take a step to the left
and watch it go past you, you know. And so
those are type of things that you know, as we're
talking about finding our ideal client, that in those nose
(15:28):
it's just them going right past you, right.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Just a step to the s it's just a step
to the sunset, right.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah. But but sometimes we don't see that, We don't
we don't get that feeling because of that and or
and then you talk about the strange doll. There are
other moments that we see these situations that we don't
understand that maybe for that one moment that one potential
client is walking with us, you just don't know who
(15:56):
it is. Or there might be a message that we
might need to hear from that individual that's going to
help us move forward because maybe you know, maybe we're
filling the loan. The dog could be a you know,
a metaphor for a friendly you know, commune dam or
whatever it is, right exactly, you know, But sometimes we
don't take those those cues, you know, as we're looking
(16:17):
for that that client for that community in all reality,
because we're looking for we're talking about external community, but
we also have an internal community as well, and we
don't always consider that at the same time.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Well, and I think, you know, anything great that's come
from nothing has come from the vision of one individual
who refused to give up until it existed. And so
whether that's a business, whether that's a media thing, if
I mean just read stories and anything great that's been
in Like, you know, we can hate Zuckerberg, we can
love Zuckerberg, but he was eighteen years old sitting in
(16:56):
that thing while everyone else, I mean, what was a
Harvard right, While everyone else is getting the girls and
getting the drinks and getting everything, you know, just living
it up, partying, him and his friends are just coding
in a room. And he continues to drive that even
what we see happening now with AI and his buyout
of like bringing people in to basically be like Nope,
(17:17):
I refuse to get passed up.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
I'll pay somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
They just paid somebody a graduate student two hundred and
fifty million or two hundred million dollar contract or two
fifty it's the largest employment contract in history he's an
AI genius, and so what is he doing? He sees
something that we don't see, and he is driving towards
(17:39):
that thing, regardless of the what an idiot to pay
some kid out of college two hundred and fifty million
dollars blah blah blah, because he knows that that kid
can make him two hundred and fifty billion dollars right right?
And so it's it's the very old adage where when
we don't have a vision, we fail, you know. And
(18:02):
so that's what I would tell the entrepreneur that gets
discouraged is I would say, put your head up, look
to where you want to go, where you intend to go,
and everything else is just stones in the pathway that
you might have to kick out of the way or
walk around, but they're still there.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
But how do we not get so laser focused and
understand because that individual might not have been on Zuckerberg's
real radar, you know. And so because we say, hey,
we are the genius, where the whatever it is? Look,
Zuckerberry make all his money? Did he really need another person?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Ah?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
But like you stayed in though, where is he trying?
Where does his true vision for his organization? What is
he trying to get ahead of where? What is he
seeing that? Like you said that the us mia mortals
are not you know, you know, So how do we
pull back a little bit and be able to listen
and and look through our peripheral and all those types
(19:01):
of things. How do we stay open minded in that
space as well and not just be so lazier focused.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Well, I think the focus is on the goal. The
open mindedness is in the moment. So you're always learning
in the moment, but you're always heading towards something, you know.
So it's again like any life's journey. It's like we're
gonna take a Hey, kids, get in the car. We're
gonna take a road trip across the United States. The
journey isn't the destination.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
The destination isn't the destination. It's the journey along the way, right.
And so although the whole time in our mind we're
going from New York to LA and we'll just use
the simple illustration, we're going from New York to La.
Where the real joy is is when we stop off
at you know, soda pops in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and
there's eight hundred kinds of soda and classic cheeseburgers and
(19:50):
the kids are running around taking a picture with a
hundred foot tall soda pop bottle, right right, man, Like
that's where the memories come from from those trips as children, right,
And it's the same thing again. Just apply that to
the entrepreneurial journey. You're always looking to the end place.
But that doesn't mean that you don't enjoy the now.
You just have a destination mapped out and that's where
you're going no matter what.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Right. And I think in those moments, those unexpected bathroom trips, hey,
you know, you never know who you're gonna watch hands
with why you're in the bathroom, right, You never know
who you're gonna while you and Roy Rogers getting you know,
or getting your hush puppies or whatever it might be.
You never know who's in line with you or who's
behind the counter. You have zero idea who you're want
(20:31):
to run into. And I think that's the things that
we don't understand sometimes within this journey, Like you said,
whether it's from San fran to Boston, that's a long trip,
So how many stops are you going to make along
the way? And I think those are things that we
don't consider as as we're starting out.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
You know, I could give you a business illustration of that,
because from when you're into business with this. So we
started a little over a year ago, we now have
with me and my va, we now have forty people.
We have one hundred and fifty clients. We do about
little over two hundred and some odd shows a month
plus internal. We have our arr is on track. We
did a million our first year. We're probably due two
(21:10):
two and a half this year. And so like here's
a perfect I think illustration of that. When I first started,
in my mind, my clients were because we build this
network in one of the things we do is we
use exclusivity, and so we say, like in Chicago, we'll
have one criminal defense, one divorce, one estate planning and
probate lawyer, one IP patent trademark lawyer, one business you know,
(21:35):
so basically, and there's about ten or twelve archetypes of
lawyers that we have, and so I figured we would
just you know, there's two hundred and fifty markets with
two hundred thousand people or more, which gives you enough
competition for the attorneys to what need to be differentiated
because some guy in the middle of Nowhere'sville, Arkansas, this
is no.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Like nothing against him.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
But if I'm in Nowhere'sville, Arkansas, there's thirty thousand people
in the in the county and two attorneys, I don't
really need something like this unless I'm a PI attorney
and I want to expand into like fifteen counties and
get no. So but that was my archetype originally, like
you talked about.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
But then as I.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Got into this and I started selling it, I started
talking to people and we started marketing. We started having
a couple of different types of other clients that are
in the same industry comes to us. One was national
based attorneys with very niche types of practices.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
For example, one of our guys does f.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
FDA compliance and tariffs, which you know, no, and that's
not hasn't been in the news at all this year,
so he probably didn't have a very successful campaign with us, right,
I mean, like it was for tudous timing for him
and for us to launch a show basically in January,
I think with him talking about tariffs, because he's exploded
(22:50):
and done well with it. So again I thought I
was only working with local Now I'm working with National.
Then I started having people that weren't attorneys, but they
served them like, Hey, I'm a fractional chief marketing officer.
I'm a fractional chief financial officer. I do you know finance?
I do like personal finance for lawyers? I do I
(23:11):
have an AI system for lawyers?
Speaker 4 (23:13):
What can I do?
Speaker 3 (23:14):
And so now we have I don't know, maybe fifteen
or twenty of those clients, so ten percent of our
client base. And what's wonderful about that is we can
now in working with these people who provide value to
our core client base, we're actually being paid to produce
content for our own clients to work with us. Because
(23:36):
we then put we basically say, hey, let's have a
sponsored show. Will sponsor you, We'll you know, give you
this discount or however it works.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
We just want the.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
People that are watching this show to know that we
did it for you and we can help them. And
so I had no idea that that was not something
in my mind that was going to become a thing.
But now those two pieces of our client base are
extremely important pieces of our company.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
So so I want y'all to listen. There's multiple layers
to what d us said, because he had a idea,
and then don't be afraid to speak. Don't be afraid
to talk, you know, as you stated, because because again
we get sol layers or focused that we only want
IP you know, attorneys, right, you know. Or but then
(24:29):
you went into another space that where this individual is
talking about tarots, which you never know what's going to
take off, right, you know. And so so I just
want y'all to listen to to the ideas that are
put out there. Because even he talked U, DM talked
about attorneys, but DM, you also talked about all the
(24:50):
other layers of that organization. You know, they're you know,
fractional CFOs or you know, whatever it might be. I mean,
And for those of you who are out there, say, hey,
you know what, I don't have that level talk to
the pairalalegals, Like there's other people within the office that
you could talk to, you know that that might be
able to assist. So I want you to understand that
(25:11):
there are a lot of levels in everything that DM
is saying. And DM, I really appreciate you coming on
and talking to us because I really want you all
to hear and be encouraged. And no matter what level
you're on, all you gotta do is just be open minded.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Listen. You know I'll say this.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
People will look at where I'm at and say, but
I'm a guy who I had some health issues at
thirty six. I spent almost a year and a half
in bed thinking I had MS. During that time, I
had to come up with a way to provide for
my family because I'd always been the provider.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
So this is back in like.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I guess this is two thousand and nine, ten somewhere around,
so about ten fifteen years ago or about fifteen years
ago or so, I came up with this little What
I did is I got a hold of a big
national news paper company. There was still a lot of
little community papers, and I basically signed a contract for
quarter million dollars of ad space across the whole country,
(26:08):
a page at a time. Because so, what I did
is I then would take two afternoons a week. I
had a full time writer and a Filipino va and
a Filipino cold caller, so I had three people working
for me, but I physically could only work about eight
ten hours a week. But because and think about, all
I did was call it people and say Hey, we're
(26:31):
putting this series of articles in your newspaper. Blah blah
blah blah. You know it's gonna be in this newspaper.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
You'll be this. It's this much money.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I ran an eighty percent profit margin after paying my
people working ten hours a week, And so it doesn't
matter what level you're on.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
If you've got ten hours and an idea and.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
You could tag a few people onto it, you can
make that work because over time that idea you'll learn
how to control and grow one to three people. Or
now I can have forty fifty sixty people. I have
forty people on my team, and I can just literally,
you know, now, I just spend my time, like you know,
looking at this like reports, meeting, training, and dealing with
(27:11):
issues until I want to have a CEO or.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
General manager step step in.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
So you don't get to a place that you've never
been usually right away, right you have to go to similar,
yet less intense situations in order to be prepared. Because
I remember when I was twenty three to twenty five
(27:37):
and I had thirty people working for me, and I
would lose sleepover payroll.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
I don't lose lose as a forty eight year old.
I don't lose sleepover, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Like I used to just like be crushed with the
weight of all these people depending on my ideas and
execution there you know, finances right, And it used to
be a crushing weight. But as I've grown older, I
began to realize that I built up that muscle, the
muscle of being able to fail, the muscle being able
(28:06):
to learn from failure, the muscle being able to apply
what I've learned from failure and be better the next time.
And that's the path, the true path, the entrepreneurship. Average
first generation millionaire is over fifty years old, has three
failed businesses, and has filed bankruptcy two and a half times.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
That's the average first generation millionaire.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
So those people were willing to go through those tragedy,
through those trying times to get where they were. And
I every single every single person started on a smaller
scale and either failed or had success until it failed,
or they stepped away and didn't enjoy it, or whatever
it was. So don't look at someone that you perceive whoever,
(28:47):
and I'm just speaking to the listener, don't look at
somebody that you perceived as having an advantage over you.
I've always looked at it this way. We're both humans.
If you can do it, I can do it. That's
all there is to it.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Now.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
It's taken me a very long time to have the
knowledge set that I have, but I committed to habits
and kept committing to habits.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
So so once again, DM like you keep dropping these nuggets,
bro Like, sorry, man, But for the people that are
listening today that are afraid of afraid of failure, afraid
of you know, hey, maybe I don't know what to say,
(29:33):
what to do, I'm not focused enough to find out,
or I'm or I'm afraid of hearing the nose. I
don't know the right process to understand how to get
to my right client. You know, whatever feedback loops I
need to create, or forecasting benchmark, whatever it is. Damn,
where can they find you and talk to you about
any of these pieces for them to move forward to?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Dennis Metter, you know that's an easy place with me there.
You know, I do a lot of writing there, put
my videos out from podcasts.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
All that fun stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
So if you want to connect with me personally, that's
the place, And if you want to connect with my company,
the Legal Podcastnetwork dot com. Check it out, you know,
and you can connect there. Look at testimonials, client work,
all of that.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Nice. Nice, So so DM. Before I let you go,
I gotta ask you a question I ask everybody. Would
you rather question? Use your imagination? You know, no parameters?
So would you rather choose three doors or a fork
in a road?
Speaker 4 (30:42):
I would rather choose a fork.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
In a road any particular reason?
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Why? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Because I feel like with a fork in the road,
you can always go back to that fork and start over.
But if you go in through a door, they might
all three be locked when you come back to them. Hm.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Now keep in mind, I says your imagination, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
It's my imagination.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well why would you lock them back?
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Well? I didn't lock them. I'm just saying, right, like
my mind if i'm if I'm at a crossroads.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Instead of saying there's one's right and one's wrong, what
I say is one's a lesson and one's right.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Mmmm.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Maybe I need to go down the wrong path and
learn the lesson, but I need to pass so I
can always come back. Whereas you never know what's gonna
happen with doors lock jammed, You could go in there
and somebody else's standing in the room.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
I mean, there's just a million sting.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Variables with three doors, and the fact that if you'd
have said three three paths or two.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
But you put a door on it. What you put
a door on it? That changes the whole dynamic.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
My friend, Now, now, because it is your imagination, maybe
all three doors have candy at the end of it.
I don't know, you know, they don't have to be locked.
Maybe they're maybe all the locks have been removed. Maybe,
I mean, maybe it's just a doorway and not the
actual door.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Okay, do you want I know really why I went.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
The first time I went to a haunted house, I
was twelve years old. My friend brings me in and
I'm like, I've never been to something like it before
to an extent, right, So we get in there, twelve
year olds, you know that awkward age.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
And I go in.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I think I'm in seventh grade and I go in,
and we go through this and that and ah. But
then we take this door into this room. And when
we walked into the room, it was all doors. Every
door we opened. Guess what happened?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
It was a dead end. Monster came somebody jumped out.
I mean, that's what happened to me.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Came out, another monster came out.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
So by the time we're sitting there with five doors open,
I'm just curled up in the corner, laughing out of
fear until I went my pants as a twelve year old,
and then I had to go to my friend and
his mom had to cover me with the twent I
had to.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Get in the car. So I don't want to go
into any room.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Full of Oh no, I can understand it. I mean,
first of all, I don't even go into a horned house.
I mean I went to a haunted house with my friends.
And we were in Canada for whatever. We was up
there on a church event and so we were the
event was in Buffalo, but we decided to go to
Niagara Falls. It was in the fall, and we went
on the main strip in Canada and it was a
haunted house. We're like, hey, you know what, we don't
(33:19):
have anything else to do. We're seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old.
We didn't go and do this. We go in and
as soon as we turned the corner, somebody jumped out
at me. Now, unfortunately, I'm from Philadelphia, and so I did.
I did because he got so close, you know, and
really it was more so for me to push him away,
(33:41):
but he was right up on me, so yeah, it
was it was way too close, and everybody laughed. How
am I going? I didn't know, and I didn't see
him y'all pushed me ahead, you know, and you know,
of course, you know we're trying to be cool for
some girls or whatever anyway, but.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
That's all another story, everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I didn't I know, right, right, right, but no, but
you know, but DM, I think very much for coming
on the show today.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Man, Absolutely, it's been a real joy, my friend.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Sure think and everyone. Of course, all the DM's information
will be in the show notes. So if you're walking, running, hiking,
going up that mountain looking down those rocks, you know,
because you're looking again, I say, looking down right, you're
looking at what you've already passed. So I thank y'all
very much for listening today, for listening to that When
that Word podcast, and of course i'll talk to you
(34:35):
just a little bit later.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Thanks for listening. Follow Maurice Chisholm on social media to
stay connected and check back weekly for new episodes until
next time. That will never work, or will it
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