Album Club Pack August 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hello everybody, Welcome to That's Not Metal, and welcome back
to the album club Pack. We have had what we
often have with a big summer escpade of like various
things going on, big projects that meant we haven't had
time for a couple of these. But after a couple
of months we are back. Thank you everybody for your
continued support and joining us again here today as the

(00:46):
album club Pack returns. We have got a couple of
serious cases of fire and Brimstone and shock and Satan,
and a couple more like less of that bullshit kind
of affairs. A couple of these are ones I've been
thinking of doing for a while. A couple our picks
that Sam Digno on and Elliott Paisley here have both
brought to the table. Maybe easy to detect which of

(01:09):
those aforementioned categories each falls into how we're doing gang.
Are we ready?

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah? I'm ready to talk about four very different albums.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
I'm ill and sleep deprived, but I will not be
held back from talking about WASP.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
So under no circumstances we will be held back from
talking about WASP. Coming up, we are looking at an
album that is celebrating forty and is sometimes undervalued in
its place in the overall heavy metal lineage. That is,
of course, the self titled debut album Wasp by Wasp.
We are looking at one of the great punk rock
albums of the two thousands, the Distillers and sing Seeing

(01:44):
Death House. We are looking at a sort of I
don't know, slightly forgotten but also in its time, very
celebrated indie punk album from the twenty tens, celebration rock
by Japandroids. And we are looking at one of the
most divisive black metal albums I think, maybe of all time,
but certainly of its era, The Wild Hunt by Wain

(02:05):
and first Up. As said there, we Can't be hold
Back any Longer is an album that I have been
chomping at the bit to tackle force a really long time.
Wasp Wasp. Last time we did an album, Clumpact, we
did start it off with Motley Cruz. So I know
we've got two, like kind of two of these type
bands in a row here, but it's nice to have
one in their prime, at least after Generation Swine, you

(02:26):
know what I mean. More similarly, like when we did
Thunder and Lightning by Finn Lizzie, A couple episodes before that.
This is one of those albums that in the last
two to three years I have kind of clung to,
like a bit of a warm comfort blanket whenever I need.
Like absurdly ass kicking heavy metal from its golden age.
Wasp bar maybe a band that needed qualifying first of all,
because to a and there are a weird sort of degree.

(02:47):
They're very famous. Most people know the name, but to
the modern heavy metal fan getting to the genre at
anytime after like nineteen ninety, they've been more on the sidelines,
and some of the other big bands in their era,
like you know, I had made a Metallica even you know,
Junus Priest or indeed Motley Crue, Guns N' Roses, deafth Leopard,
et cetera. I feel like Wasp are slightly deceptive in

(03:09):
what they are to anyone who I guess didn't witness
what they were when they broke through in nineteen eighty four,
because you see that name with its you know, silly
fal stop abbreviation points doesn't actually stand for anything as
far as I know, apart from maybe potentially we are
sexual perverts being written on the inside of an album,
and you know, you see that and you see some
let's face it kind of washed up looking guys at

(03:29):
times today and your mind goes, ah, old bad hair metal.
It thinks, oh, it can't possibly be proper cool, true metal,
like the bands who still have all the respect today
like I had Madeen et cetera. To what extent do
you guys have a viewpoint on Wasp?

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I mean I have just observed Wasp from a distance
and looked at them and gone, yep, not for me.
The just it screams at best, you know, like some
of the decent hair metal stuff at worst at work
Motley Crow Rat, all of that shite.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
I mean I've never been, you know, sort of contrary
to what I just said, I've never been a huge
Wasp fan. Like I'm not familiar with all of the records,
and I think part of that is it took me
a long time to even try them because they're a
kind of funny band to place.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Because that's exactly what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
The name dropped in the same conversation as Venom or Rats,
and they kind of sit between those two things.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
They are the venom of Rats, That's exactly what Yeah,
and yeah, because I got into metal through generally will say,
classic metal on the slightly more credible side, right like
the more universally alluded iron made in Metallica, the big Boys,
rather than getting through having a really big like commercial
hard rock sleez metal kind of phase or whatever. Didn't

(04:45):
really give a lot of those bands the time of
day when I was starting out. This is not an
album that I like have a history with. As a teenager,
I got into thrash and then got into extreme metal
and so on, and I never really bothered with quite
a lot of the bands who appear to fall on
the other side of that particular kind of paradigm until
much later. As we've discussed, I did get into Motley
Crue and I like Guns and Roses or whatever, but

(05:06):
it took me like much more years than it probably
should have to like really give Van Halen the time
of day to get into skid Row, to get into
Scorpions even and they're kind dabblings with that, even to
like properly check out bon Jovi or Deaf Leopard whatever
and actually make like informed decisions on those bands. So
my last few years I think, in part have been
characterized by kind of doing that and like expanding my

(05:29):
understanding of, you know, the age of classic metal by
actually exploring the other side of that coin. When my
teenage view point was like anything that looks comparable to
Poison or Warrant, like Sam wasn't really interested. But Wasp
opens up an interesting kind of subdivision within that, which
is what is you know, quote hair metal and what
is more shock rock. Are this band like Poison or

(05:52):
Warrant adjacent or are they sort of a nineteen eighties
glam era representative of a lineage that you know has
Alice Cooper before them, and then you know, fucking but
like Marilyn Manton and whatever after that spoilers. It's kind
of the latter. But it took me taking a magnifying
glass to them and actually giving them my time for
me to appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, and I think, you know, listening to the record,
I think there is more Alice Cooper that I mean.
It's funny the glam thing Alice Cooper has seen as
a kind of Alice Cooper and Van Halen are the
year zero for a lot of those bands, but you
don't actually hear much Alice Cooper in their music. It's
kind of an aesthetic thing or the quality of being
shocking without really being ugly, whereas Wasp have a sort

(06:36):
of like demonic edge to them, which I think is
one of the reasons they're so I mean, with all
the PMRC, it all kind of hangs together. It's like
if you made up a heavy metal band in a movie.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Wasp. I mean, Sam, you watched a movie that I
suppose a test to that.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I mean to me, like, I get that because
had that sort of a villainous energy that like something
like Alice Cooper has that they are not just you know,
a bunch of sleazy dudes in tight trousers with big
hairy They play up like the kind of like maniac
or evil like hal Satan that sort of shite or
that sort of thing like, and they clearly want to

(07:17):
be a bit maniacal.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, And to kind of attest to that, the side
of the glam metal era that I've really like grown
quite attached to is less the you know, really sanitized
commercial side and more the kind of bands who have
a bit of like street level brutality to them, which
I guess you would maybe sort of say starts with
something like Van Halen, but then you go Twister, Sister,
skid Row, bands who look glam and have that kind
of access to them, but they're also like very convincing,

(07:39):
tough as nails heavy metal bands, and in that particular group,
I don't know if there is one that characterizes that
danger in a kind of over the top, flamboyant terrify
your parents and your your local community priest evil more
than Wasp. Wasp were absolutely fucking mental, genuine They are

(08:00):
the example of what all people mean when they go
the world wouldn't let this happen today. Wasp wouldn't be
allowed because of Woke. They're actually probably right with Wasp,
even though obviously the powers that be tried to stop
them back then as well. But Wasp, they are like
a cartoon band of everything that was like shocking and
horrifying to people about heavy metal in its heyday. Guys,

(08:22):
I love this album so much, of.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Course you do. I'm not shocked that you that you
love this album, like, like, give me you know how
much you've gone for someone like the heavy metal albums
and hair Moss if we have talked about on here
of this year and the particular side of it you
go for. This is like the most u version of
that thing. If you would say hair metal and can

(08:44):
I go, let's still it to Peren it's Wasp.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
I mean it is like the thing you were saying
about them being a cartoon band where the parents would
be outraging their kids like it. That's you can listen
to it and you can still hear that, And there's
not many things from the eighties where that carries over
you kind of look back and it's it's almost endearing
most of the time. But there is something about Wasp
which I think even now comparing these this you know,

(09:10):
Twisted Sister, that they really played it. Oh, I want
to rock. It's like your parents wouldn't be that shouldn't
be that concerned about you wanting to rock. There's stuff
on the Wasp album where even now, if my kid
came to me has started emulating Blackie Lawless, I might
be concerned.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah. I think if you were to rank heavy metal
albums based on solely how much testosterone the you contain,
this would be a good bet for the winner. Like
the amount of just boiled down testosterone that powers this
album and makes Motley Cruis seem like Girl Scouts. The
album sounds like it is trying to fight you and
fuck you simultaneously for the entire run time. It is

(09:47):
like superpowered toxic masculinity, Like taking a sip of it
would turn you into some kind of felon. There's a
guy who plays on this album called Randy Piper, you
know what I mean. That's just the energy that powers it.
But the trat list on it east untamable. It seems
like more of a cult album these days, with WASPS
kind of slightly reduced public presence. But in terms of

(10:07):
like you know, I'll say debut albums from like metal
and hard rock bands in the nineteen eighties that are
just like perfectly brilliantly introduced you to what the band
are about. It's like kill them all, Iron Maiden, Blizzard
of Oz, Appetite for Destruction, this is in there. I
think the impact this made on Arrival made WASP briefly

(10:28):
the scariest, most scandalizing heavy metal band in the world,
to the degree that we can't talk about the track
list being standardized because track one on it on your
streaming versions, Animal Fuck Like a Beast was not allowed
to be on the album on its original release. It's
not actually the most popular wasps song in numbers, seemingly,
but for years that track was like the only thing

(10:49):
I ever heard about Wasp. It kind of precedes them
a little bit. Was that the same for you?

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Cool? Like win of that track a little bit because
you know, you hear like, oh, most shocking controversial rock songs.
This song was bad and from your radios, like I
could have heard it for that, and then I was
just like, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, I think I kind of one of the reasons
I didn't go to WASP for a long time was
I wrote them off in that exact same way because
as a kid, you know, you watch documentaries about the
eighties and it hit the history of rock. However, and
the only part of WASPONU wasn't just this song. It
was just a a fuck lack and beast. I didn't
know there was a chorus, so I thought, that's just
the song. And it's kind of funny now how it's

(11:31):
so tied to the first WASP album. It blows my
mind that it's not on it.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, I mean always, whenever there's like a story published
about WASP by a magazine or whatever, it's always going
over the animal controversy and kind of the PMRC case.
You all know the story about the PMRC and their
attempts to kind of sensor heavy metal songs during the
eighties resulted in the famous Dee Snyder hearing all of
that stuff, the Filthy fifteen, the famous lift of songs
that they put together that were like grossly offensive. I

(11:57):
think the party line as heavy metal found today is
look back on that and poke fun at it a bit.
You know, It's like the Judus pre song. It's mostly
kind of covert gay stuff and it's just a bit cheeky.
The twisted sister inclusion, kind of ridiculous inclusion. We all
know that animal fuck like a beast. I am not
saying I am like pro the PMRC or censorship or whatever,
because I love this song. But I think it has

(12:19):
the distinction of being the song on that list which
is genuinely pretty spicy and like still a bit hot
to the touch and actually like does push the limit
and it makes you choking. Oh my god, this song
is outrageous.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
This is my thing with like, not just this song,
but there are other songs on this album that have
a similar kind of feeling. When I'm just I was like,
I don't want to agree with, like, you know, the
crazy censorship people by. I was like, this is so
it's pretty spicy, iffy. It's a bit iffy, Like I'm
not gonna, you know, say like again, they were just

(12:54):
you know, saying stuff to be shocking short with these
songs that I was even though I was like, I
chill out a little bit that.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
Have you seen the single cover for it, the like
leather fucking leopard print jockstrapped with a saw blade covered
in blood on whitechapel, or the late covers you know,
Wasp with the original saw Blade trademark heavy metal band,
the point where on stage they wear costumes and had
like saw blades on their fucking wrists and arms and stuff.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
It's mental.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, I think the thing with this song for me
as well, is exactly what you're saying about. It still
feels not dangerous. It sounds ridiculous to say it sounds dangerous,
but let you say hot to the touch. And again,
there's few things in the world that I dislike more
than the censorship. But I do listen to this and
go Less than thirty years ago, they were worried about

(13:45):
Elvis's hips.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Like the people who were stressing about WASP, they grew
up at a time where I don't know if we can,
you know, show Elvis's pelvis, and now their kids are
listening to Fuck like a Beast. It's I kind of
get it.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
The moment the first verse comes in and the opening
line is a good.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Bitches of naked lead is lying on there.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
But Sam, I'm getting the vibe from you that this
is not an album you spent a great deal of
time with. So when you press play on you know
the version that starts to fuck like a Beast? So
that was the opening line. What was your response?

Speaker 2 (14:18):
It was just like, yeah, cool, Okay, this is strapping
we're in for. It's the eighties. It's the the the
actual version of the ship. I hate when Still Panther
do the parody version of it. But you know the
songs if you can kind of stomach the slightly questionable content,

(14:40):
like that chorus fucking goes on, It's it's.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
So absurd and ridiculous. It will always, I think it
will always make you do a double take when that
first like.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
A literally when it was the picks on Nick laves
in their beds, Like with that smell, I was like, Okay,
it's just.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Such a slow metaphor, you know, like point blunt, sh
sameless admittal of sles, you know, like, yeah, what are
you gonna do about it? It's it's in the canon
of like the most memorable what the fuck did he
just say? Opening lines of a song of all time?
But that's almost innocent compared to what follows because the
song basically, like coyly walks right up to the line

(15:18):
of is this about rape? Because like there's there's just
enough plausible deniability for it to be read as like
an intense BDSM fantasy or something. But like ac DC
was singing, let me put my love into youbabe, WASP
will go in. I do whatever I want to he
I nail your ass for the sheets, Like it's very nearly.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Still your love. Yeah, that's the living that I'm like.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
It's very nearly a really horrible problematic song where you go, yeah,
I know what the PMO s we're on about there,
and I remember I'd saying this when I saw Wasp
last year. Blackie Lawless famously swore off playing this song
for years and years because he became a born again Christian,
but then they recently brought it back, but he tends
to avoid doing the big I fuck like a beast light.

(16:00):
He kind of leans back in the crowd like shouts
it all out, and I'm like, Blackie, mate, that's not
the offensive line of the song, like you can fuck
like a beast consensually. It's the rest of the songs suspect.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
I mean, that's my thing with it is the whole
like fuck like a beast thing is actually like, you know,
pretty like oh, you know, people like it rough. It's
all the other stuff in like the chorus and and
some of those in the verses. It's just like I.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
But again it's it's for me. The appeal to this
song isn't that it's you know, nice, do you know
what I mean? Like it's it is pretty grim, and
I think, but when you put the Wasp record on,
you are sort of buying into that, Like I don't know.
To me, I don't know, I hear what you're saying,
but I've never read anything into it like that. I

(16:48):
just I don't think Blackie Lawless is kind of cognizant
enough to to write in such a way if that
makes sense.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
I mean, there are songs later on that kind of well, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Really feel that this song is basically like the nineteen
eighties glam equivalent of Chris Barnes's era of Cannibal Corps
songs where you like, go wow, that really is like
still to this day, quite offensive, and I kind of go,
that's where the line is. That was sort of the
appeal of it. But and you've established that being there
now we probably shouldn't be doing this again now the
fact that, again not relevant to this specific album, but

(17:23):
one of the best WASP songs is a song that's
only available on their live album, and it's a sequel
to Animal called the Manimal and it's got this fucking
stupid intro where Blackie goes Ever since I was a
young boy, I've had one thing on my mind, women.
But the way Animal like rides that line of unacceptability
in the form of ASA was alluding to even as

(17:45):
kind of you know, the being the least willing to
go with it. One of the most like I think,
energy pumping heavy metal songs that's ever been written. That
chorus suspect lines accounted for is perfect.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Again, I think that's one of the things that I
didn't catch about Wasp when I first heard them is
their melodies are like the Kinks and Status Quo level catchy.
It's it's the same melody, repeats it over and over again,
and it's just it's just an earworm. There's no there's
no other word for it. It's like you say, perfect
eighties heavy metal of the Wayne Campbell stripe.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
I just hear that, ah come around and I can't
deny it. And like, if you love all of the outrageous, untamed,
manic elements I've had in metal, like there it is
manifest you know.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Like again like Ocase Sony a cross of the album,
they are all so basic and so redundant, but every
time there's the energy and attack that the kind of
the band have, it is it does make it kind
of easy to get swept up. And even again, there's
just a lot of stuff I don't like going on
here the like and that's again that that like animal

(18:54):
feel like kind of like can be like a great
summation of so many of my feelings across this whole album,
because it, like throw everything was spar at you right
away on this version because again, like this the version
I've heard I hit player, I get fucked like a beast. Yeah, like,
and then I'm just like, I hate so much of this,
but it's massive and it just sounds good. Fuck yeah

(19:15):
it is.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
This album. It gets the ultimate scary, demonic sleeze heavy
metal album. Basically, it's got this wonderfully raw kind of
garageye recording quality where it kind of it sounds like
big enough in the choruses with all the multi tracking
everything to like take Off in the nineteen eighties and
the kind of more mainStreet popular songs, but the guitars
and the drums sound like a bunch of maniacs and

(19:37):
a sex dungeon. And it's that sensibility that's like raw,
unhinged nastiness factor pumping out a track list that for
me totally fits that old cliche of sounding like a
Greatest Hits album. Like it's a good fucking job that
when Animal got removed from the album, they were that
good that they could still go, Okay, that's fine, We've
got I want to be somebody that can open the
album just as strong as say, can you imagine?

Speaker 3 (20:00):
This is such a good song. This, This is maybe
my favorite song on the record, and it's fun. Like
the thing you said about them taking Animal felt like
a beast off it going back to it. When that
song came in, I thought, this is the perfect summation
of the record. How could you remove it? But then
a song about wanting to be a rock star? Songs
to jump on your bed too, like where have they gone?

(20:21):
When did we stop writing songs about how fun it
would be to bit maybe Nickelback just sort of completely it,
and after that we decided not to do it anymore.
But I Want to Be Somebody is such a jam.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, it's what you're saying about, kind of you know,
kink level catch or whatever. The verse when it comes
it just has a little drum fill and then suddenly
you say you won't run and hide again. It's like
pure like raging masculinity, but in a like less violent
and ugly way than Animal. It's just that teenager like
feeling invincible. The world is your oyster, young, dumb and
full of com like I Want to Be Somebody is
just all that, And the feeling of just those standard

(20:54):
choruses hitting you again and again on this record is
like overwhelmingly infectious.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
I want to Be somebody like ah, I was like, hell,
that chorus is just like insanely catching it. This is
what I'm kind of like. I was, so I can't
dislike you too much because you're hitting it out of
the park on track two, which is track one for
a lot of people, is is huge. This is this
is what like good hair metal.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Is to me.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
It is basic bitch music in a lot of ways,
but it's so full of itself. So Braggados got just
so much character that kind of like, this is when
these bands get it right. Is what they should sound like.
They should sound like they're on top of the world,
making you feel like you're there with them, And I
want to be some bird. Wasp is that's what I
wanted to be. Rockstars. They're already rockstars, but they're making

(21:41):
you believe I can be a rock star too. I
want to I want to live that.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, I would say the wasp appeal in general is
exactly the sensation you were just describing. But also it's
a bunch of scummy like freak.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
It's the scummy.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
It's like a bunch of again fucking you know. Degeneros,
knife wielding maniacs have found their way to the top
of that mountain. The opening salvo on this album, Love
Machine Hello, It's just like unbelievably uplifting and freeing. The
verse melodies are like basically as good as the chorus.
This is exactly how I basically want a like party

(22:14):
heavy metal album to sound like. It's the right balance
of like dingy, sweaty darkness and just booze fly everywhere abandoned.
It's like the greatest heavy metal bender for forty minutes
this album.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean, I think Sida on this album in particular
is like legitimately really fucking good. Like the flame is
that that whole out until the flame burns out bit
like that's got real, like kind of like living life
in the fast lane, like going hard.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
You charged up to keep going until you physically fall down.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
It's like full on heavy metal mania. The flame like
I think, like so good and the whole I've got
the gasoline, you've got the sparks or the cliche lyrics,
all that you want to frow out, but it just again,
it just it fires you up, it gets into you,
and again you are You're there with them.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
I think that one of the saddest things about glam
mel or hair metal, like those sort of adjacent bands.
Is it's one of the only genres of metal which
is pretty consistently about having a good time, and it
gets me down that there's not that many bands writing
great songs in that style.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
I wish I liked it more.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
But the first well, I mean, would you even want
to go up to first? Like five songs on this eleven?

Speaker 2 (23:25):
I mean, I will say like for me is vasically
Side is like top ten, and then Side B a
little bit patchier.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
But yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. But I
think the first, certainly especially the first four songs are
for the thing that Wasp do. It's completely perfect. It's
like the platonic form, like you say, it's the platonic
form of a of a party metal record.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah. I think Blackie as well has again slightly under
celebrated one of the most like unique and powerful vocal
presences of any eighties metal band. His voice is ridiculous,
Like he's not quite a like Udo Dirks Schneider, what
the fuck noise are you making kind of guy, but
that like high Madden delivery that's really hard to like impersonate,

(24:11):
really recognizable as him and as well as that like
sheer again, shrill kind of power. He sounds like cruel
somehow on this, like it's the voice of a guy
with a knifetier throat.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, he's not got the the David Lee Roth cart
wheeling thing, or it's not the Vince Neil sort of
pretty boy thing the guy blade strapped to him.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, it's it's not as flamboyant. It is like a
little bit menacing.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
I don't even know if it's less flamboyant, it's just
it's just more menacing. It it's like Freddy Krueger singing
on a metal record.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
That's a really really good comparison point. It just it
works really well on again the grimier, nastier songs. Hellian
is just a one word chorus where the second half
of the word sounds like he's having to expel it
out to follow the first because it's too powerful.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
It's like he's charging it up like dragon ball.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Hell.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, it's so mad and it's not. Again. The reason
I think this like as a track list again, as
a debut album, it's so kind of dead on is
it's not like a super varied or ambitious album. It's
just like again, because later on Wasp do some wackier
shit when they start writing like rock operas and shit
like that on the Crimson Idol, which is fucking great
if you've never heard it, but like this record is

(25:21):
just like the pure essence of it distilled into forty minutes.
Every single song is just about like you's gone wild,
fucking bad, make your mum and daddy sad. School Days
just about fucking up your school. I'm here doing time.
My age is my crime. How funny is that?

Speaker 2 (25:37):
I mean school Days? On first I was like, oh,
this is just literally schools out, like yeah, sure, whatever,
and then again.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
It's heavy and nastier schools Out, yeahs big.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
But then again on that school Days hell hi again,
it just it was this was an album that like
on second list, and I think whereas where like I've
realized how many of these chorses stuck on me and
I remember them. I was like, I was like, he's
doing its job, like I pledge no allegiance. It's so

(26:07):
like empty rebellion, but that's what you want. You don't
you don't know what you're rebelling against, but you're apelling
against the system.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
And yeah, yeah again, all of these eighties metal albums that, like,
you know, they hit with like a youth demographic at
the time, there's got to be some level of it,
you know, like firing up your imagination as you hear it.
You know, who the fuck are these like crazy guys
making this crazy music? And the cover art is so
fucking good. The best usage of a rubber skeleton maybe
in the nineteen eighties, just like animal bones thrown around
the place. But there's also that song that's like, hey,

(26:36):
rebellious school child, this one's for you, And you have
that alongside songs that just like way more scandalous an
adult than anything that they would otherwise get their hands
on your school days.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
I don't think it's one of the best songs on
the record, but I'm so glad it's there because it
fulfills the archetype of a song kicking back against you'd teachers.
You could just imagine, yeah, they should if they have
the music video for this, it would be then pointing
at things, doing a guitar solo, turning it into something
else like that that lost art form that we no
longer have anymore. And I think that's one of the

(27:07):
reasons that this record gets by so strong, and why
I think you like you say all eleven songs earn
their spots because even the songs that I think aren't
quite up to it or quite up to the others
that they do something slightly different.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
I think, Yeah, I mean, what are the ones that
you're saying less you know of quality? Because I think
this is a pretty like again, just absolutely if you're
a debut album coming out with here like ten or
eleven songs to just like this would be the sickest
live set in the world.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
On your Knees been off on your knees that is like, No,
that's the one that I think is even worse than
Animal felt like a Beast in terms of it's a
lyrical thing rather than I just how many more times
do I need him to say here say the words
on your knees because that's all the song is. He like,
gotta be that the most amount of times knees is
said in a song ever, sure, because the song is

(28:01):
like I think, on your Knees is like absolutely guff,
it's the only it's only song on the album. I
will say, is is terrible because then you get tormentoring
right afterwards, which Tormento rocks like the horns for Tormentor,
but on your Knees I would be in off that.
I think that is one while I was like, Okay,
I'm uncomfortable listening to this. The song isn't actually that interesting,
it's boring, hasn't got the energy I want. It's just

(28:23):
sleazy garbage.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean I wouldn't go that far, but I
think you're on your knees school Days. Bad are kind
of the lesser songs on the record. But maybe it's
harsh to expect everything to live up to Love Machine
and I Want to Be Somebody. And also it was
you know, in the eighties there were classic albums, like
plenty of classic coalns which had a couple of Douff
tracks on them, Like albums were sort of I think

(28:48):
that what you expect for them was slightly different back then.
But I you know, completely agree Tormentor. That song captures
wasps whole appeal for me, Like it's sordid crawel but
it's got like barber shop melodies.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah I will, I'll come back to that sort of
run at the end, because I think maybe Bad would
be my least for a song on the record, just
the one that I pop for the least. But I
still think it's just great fun. I think it really
works to its advantage as well, that, like the ballad
is not a like huge departure in the like Motley
Crue albums. You have this album of sleeves and then
they suddenly go, here's a bouquet of roses and a

(29:24):
box of chocolates, and it doesn't work at all. Sleeping
in the Fire, it does a good job of like
here's a slow one that doesn't betray the darkness of it.
It's kind of creepy and kind of dark, and it's
you know, singing about the love of Lucifer's magic. Like
I want to hear a ghost cover of that song.
What is what I mean? It's like kind a cult
ballad and it works really well. That's sort of that midpoint.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I was jew raies roll my eyes. When they went
into the ballad. I was like, oh God. And then
I was like, oh okay. Actually, like because I was
I was expecting you, like, oh, you've done all this,
like ah, we're edgy and now we're gonna do a
nice love song. It's like, oh no, actually you're doing
It's the sating so yeah, like a kind of evil
satanic eighties hairmel ballad. Fair enough.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, you think in another timeline, maybe this is the
formula that the glam metal bands would pick up on,
like we'd have a creepy atmospheric ballads rather than every
rose has its Thorn and every band trying to Home
Sweet Home Again one of the one of the best
songs on the record, I think, and again it's it's
the sort of thing where on paper you don't really
expect WASP to be able to pull something like this off,

(30:25):
and yet they completely nail it.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, and again for me, when you get to the
back end of the record, I can't get behind this,
sort of like SIDEB being patchy, I think because for
me it has this crazy run of singles at the beginning,
the back end run of On Your Knees Tormentor and
the Torture Never Stops is like all just torture dungeon music.
It's so rad like an eighties metal song called the

(30:48):
Torture Never Stops is just like the coolest thing of
the world to me, On your Knees I can't get
behind this slander at all. I think if you've bought
into the sleaziness of animal that you can get fined
with on your knees because it's just so like fisted
in the air on your knees over and so insistent.
The backing vocal in Tormentor is fucking incredible. And you

(31:09):
just look at that fucking gang of wrongins on the
front cover, wearing like leather bondage gear and hanging it
out in a cave of animal bones, and you think,
who the fuck are these maniacs? And the answer is
a gang of fucking maniacs, because, like we mentioned Blackie
Lawless and how he was like this avatar of absurd
masculinity run rampant, just like a villain of the establishment

(31:29):
at this point, but Chris Holmes Elliott, you must have
read many a Chris Holmes headline also right, oh yes,
might be more so on I can say, one of
the most ridiculous human beings to ever be in heavy metal.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
And to this day, that's what's brilliant about him is
because everyone remembers the uh, what's that movie called.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Metal Years to Decline of Western Civilization Part two, The
Metal Years when he's drunkenly floating around in his pool
just pouring voidgral over himself.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Yeah, maybe the most iconic bit of the move, one
of the most iconic bits of any male documentary. But
to this day Chris Holmes is putting out stuff like
Lead It Raw, which has one of my favorite music
videos of all time of him going and having an
ice cream in his lovely religion in France. I still
watch that regularly and when the Flame comes in it

(32:17):
has a very similar rift to Let It Raw, just better.
And I was is this, Oh, it's Chris Holmes a
co and I think it's one of two songs that
he co wrote. So even in nineteen eighty four he
had Let It Raw in.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, it was so mad that they had to make
another documentary just about him. Sayer of many a stupid
thing over the years, but you know, at the very least,
it captures a genuine sorts of unhingedness that existed in WASP,
and they translated that to every way in which they
carried and presented themselves in this era, where to play
up being like the most scandalizing thing in town, the

(32:51):
WASP live show during this era, every form of like
horror show thing you would imagine a metal band in
nineteen eighty four to do where their show would basically
look like medieval torture chambers with like naked models on
fucking torture racks and you know again saw blade crotches
everywhere and throwing raw meat into the crowd, shooting fire everywhere.

(33:13):
Like I said, I saw Wasp last year and I
had such a great time just hearing, you know, this
set of songs. They did this amazing like montage of
about four or five songs, just like in of course
about ten minutes, and hearing like some of these choruses
again like Tormento or whatever into you know, some of
the other stuff. It would just like, wow, fucking hell,
you're not even playing these full songs and it's just
like bang bang bang. But in terms of like going

(33:35):
back and seeing a band in a certain era, Wasp
in the very early days is one of those ones
that I would love to go and see.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Like I said, I add my little glimpse of what
a WASP live show might be like watching The Dungeon
last is.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
That like a folder that a full it is.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
At one point in the movie, he our hero gets
transported to a Wasp concert where he has to defeat Wasp.
His girlfriend is tied to like a torture rack at
the back of the stage and they're gonna stab her
and that that is literally the scene in the movie.
And I was like, and they're playing fucking Tormentor and
that's Tormento. Is good because the My mother was like, hey,
it's Tormentor that and I was like, you know, doing

(34:13):
my Wasp extracurriclar homework watching that movie. But yeah, I
have fully by you mean, where like they're making their
shows as like Torch Chamber scandalous as possible.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
And it just seems so much darker than what Van Halen,
Warrant Poison and all that were doing, like Wasp feasibly.
I don't know if they headline it now, but they've
headlined Bloodstock in the past, and that they'd get a
good spot on.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
I want them to do it again so bad, and
they could.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Rub shoulders with Emperor and Carcass and it would seem
like Bloodstock. I don't know if they would or could,
but they wouldn't get poison in the same way, do
you know what I mean? That would seem like a
weird fit. But Wasp, the imagery as well as the
music but I think an imagery is a huge part
of it. It was that thing we were saying earlier,
how it's not totally dissimilar from things like Venom exactly that,

(35:00):
And I think you know at the time that show
is like completely outrageous, but with the benefit of hindsight,
you describe that to me, fire raw meat.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
What does that sound like. It sounds like a black
metal show, doesn't it. Yeah, it sounds like the prototype
for that infamous Gorgoros show they got arrested for in
Poland where they crucified nude models and had like shit
cheap heads on pikes and stuff. And I think that's
the thing that Wasp don't quite get enough credit for,
because again, you think of the now, it's like, oh yeah,
hair metal, bad whatever. But like pre extreme metal, there's
obviously a whole bunch of like classic stuff that informs

(35:29):
a lot of the kind of esthetics and the spirit
of what that movement would really become. And I think,
you know, Kiss is obviously a very heavily sighted one
or the black metal guys in Norway got into Kiss
when they were in school or whatever. But Wasp might
be the most black metal, like you know, classic metal
or hard rock band who aren't also usually looped into
the whole like first wave black metal thing. And it

(35:49):
was very intentional programming on my part to put this
album the same episode as Watte because it's the same thing, right.
It's like the Infamy, the show that goes around being
like the most word of mouth is craziest, edgiest, stinkiest
thing that you can see the band that in their
prime stand for like this is the darkest, most evil
show on the planet. What's been their prime? Were it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (36:11):
And that thing you were saying about kiss and you
could even say Alice Cooper stuff like that, like that
the way the rock show of that style, you know
it comes from there. But those things aren't that in
keeping with where it is now, whereas the Wasp show
back then, if you were to do it now, like
you said, it would be indistinguishable from what what saying
got so notorious for doing.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, And there are so many things on this album
that like you know, as sad, as kind of being reluctant.
So many things on this that you probably want to
want wouldn't want to come back today. But I think
it's the idea of this being like so big and
in the mainstream is so far removed from today, like
how did the scariest, most off the beaten track heavy

(36:54):
metal band with this much again like raging angry scare
energy where you've walked in the wrong part of town
and the torture never stops end up being like in
fucking movies.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
It kind of are sometimes lament that we live in
a time now where if you were to be the
most extreme, most shocking band in the world, it would
have to be something like full of hell, do you
know what I mean? And that's never gonna crossover, Like
you can't play it on the radio, you can't put
them in a movie in the same way, whereas how
far extremity's gone exactly and not the Wasp with the

(37:29):
heaviest band of the world in nineteen eighty four, But
if they were the most shocking band and they've got
songs that are this hooky, this catchy and totally relatable
to both as we keep saying, like Venom and Motley Crue,
it really is like the it could only happen in
nineteen eighty four.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
I mean that is a thing. This ams is like
the right place, right time for this to blow up
in such a way to scare everyone's parents, to like
capture that rebellious teen spirit. It just it feels like
it's like like lightning in a bottom moment, which again
I'm sure what's probably do replicate across like the next
however many years like before hair metal shits itself. But

(38:09):
as like a nine eighty four debut, this is just
like the perfect storm of everything you would want as
like as a for both I think the band and
the fans to kind of like grab all the attention
right and wrong and come out of something like cool
and exciting as a result.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, I think they were genuinely one of the most
important heavy metal bands on Earth in nineteen eighty four,
And this is like far as I'm concerned, basically like
a you know, a ten out of ten debut album
in terms of turning up and being like, yeah, here's that,
and you know, you give me appetite for destruction or
you give me this, and I'm probably taking this. And
if you are like a speed metal fan or something
like that, you'll probably feel similly because it has that

(38:47):
kind of dingy energy to it. They're touring this at
the end of the year celebrating its fortieth anniversary in
the US, which is probably the most jealous I have
of any American tour this year, bringing you unto others
along because imagine that night, fucking all all of this
and that beforehand, and then you know, the next album
has the perfect song that is wild Child on it. Oh,

(39:07):
still so much good stuff. WASP All right, second album Club,
we jump forward eighteen years, which is weird. It feels
like this album should be closer to us now than
it is to WASP, but not the case. The year
two thousand and two and the Distillers sing seeing Death House.
This is one of those albums that's kind of long
been part of the T and M fabric. I think

(39:29):
it's not the first time the Distillers have had an
album Club. It's far from the first time that this
album has been celebrated. But you know, at propos of nothing,
we've got no reason to be doing it. Why not
do it again? Sam? The Distillers are, you know, from
what I can gather, really kind of an enormous part
of the punk landscape and particularly kind of mainstream punk stardom,
and what was like thrust into that spotlight from that

(39:52):
community from a bit before we were like really in
and kind of keeping track of it. The Distillers three
albums only released between the year two thousand and two
thousand and three. So what was your route to the Distillers.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
I came to the Distillers late, like she always. It
would have been the Brodie darl So solo album from
like twenty fourteen. Was the first time, like I've probably
heard like I think like Seneca Falls was on the
Tony Hawk's game stuff like that, so it probably heard
little bits of them, But in terms of actually like
getting into the Distillers, it was it was it was
late on like I kind of like came round to

(40:25):
them for him really dark to kind of going okay,
so this is she was from the Distillers. Oh, I've
heard that name. They're a band I should really check out.
After I'd gone into Rancid and and a lot of
the other like really good just a lot of the
nineties and noughties punk rock bands, and so that was
when I had said to check out this album.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Was kind of like yeah, cool, Yeah, I mean I
was later than that. I think I got into this
album sort of about eight nine years ago when TNN
came around the first time because Bees were such a
big proponent of it, and again my my knowledge of
like what was I don't know, pushed as cool and
like really capturing the moment in sort of the early
two thousands. You know, at the time I was the
meed to bust it, so I wasn't so up to

(41:01):
enough on Yeah, exactly the same. And you know, the
Distillers stopped being an active, ongoing part of the Rockland's
Gate very quickly. But for someone who you know, did
have a growing affinity for this kind of punk rock,
no matter what era you put it on in when
you came to it hearing this album, Elliott, do you
have any affinity for the Distillers.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Well, I came to them later than both of you,
because before this week, I don't think I'd ever heard
a note of their music.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Oh it's good at.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
It is fucking good, you know what, because I think
it got slightly missold to me. A lot of people
I know who love this record, they praise how snotty
it is, and I know that's what that's often associates
with punk. That kind of end of things doesn't necessarily
appeals to me. I've never been a sex Pistols fan
or the things that go too far that way. Putting
this on for the first time, I wasn't expecting it

(41:54):
to be this at it.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
I mean. The other thing is that maybe it's just
the fact that it's like a beer relate name, but
a part of their name makes them sound like they're
going to be like Flogging Molly or or you know,
something like that. But it's much more like ferocious than that.
The Distillers are, you know, they are a band who
burned bright and hot for not long. As I said,
only three albums released over a small amount of time.

(42:17):
The Distillers were not at the forefront of the rock
zeitgeist for long, but they obviously made such an impact
in that time that we're still talking about it. It's
this album Sings in Death House, and then the final
album chorl Fang, which tend to be used to kind
of define them. The debut album, self titled two thousand.
Sometimes it goes under the radar in that any affinity
for the Baby Distiller's album, Sam.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, I like I like something this is. I like
all three albums, but this is the one that speaks
to me the most, even more than Coral Fanger. Singing
death House is the one I kind of like, if
I'm going to listen to a Distiller's album, I'll reach
for this one first of all. But I do like
the debut. It's it's just another like really good punk record.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, I think the Deve Brown has more in common
with this than this does. Then Choral Fang. I was
kind of you know, I was just listening to the
Distillers kind of independently a couple of weeks ago, just
going through the albums again before Sam suggested we do this,
and the first album, like, I do think it's it's
music meant for Sam to like it, like it's Chral
Fang is a little bit different and a little bit
more evolved than the first two to this album, but

(43:18):
these two we are just talking like fierce, untamed.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Punk, f hack and slash punk rocks.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah, and Singing Deathhouse number two. Album number two is
basically the magic moment where they perfect that and also
kind of birth a new rock star into the world.
The music on this album is so pure and so
like no frills. Most of the story and the narrative
and why the Distillers were again, so you know prominent. Basically,
you know, it's Brody Dahl turning up the world for

(43:46):
a couple of years, you know, falling over her and
being like, oh my god, this is the new coolerst
person in the world. And then eventually drama unfolds and
probably a fair bit of misogyny happens and whatever else,
and Brody Dahl's whole life story still now is a
point of contention, And to be honest, I don't like
pouring over it too much because it gets very parasocial
with people like taking side and divorce battles and whatever else.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
So this thing again because I missed all that, because
again I didn't Discovery down until twenty fourteen. So and
I look back and and go like, like, I have
no interest in kind of like take sides like as
her as a like cret force, a rock star, a
front woman for a band. Though having Brody darl is
it like she is like one of those like just

(44:31):
lightning rods at the front of a band vocally, just
charismatically just effing about her To me, that is what
like a punk rock like front person vocalist should be.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Yeah, I mean, one of the coolest things about her
in the Circle for the first time is learning that
all the legend about Brody Doll is true, if that
makes sense, like the way people talk about how unflinching
she is and like sort of totally singular.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Songwriting style.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Well, getting to hear the record and learning that it's
not overhyped, because this is a record that is I
think more ferocious than a lot of the stuff that
goes with it, but also feels weirdly timeless in a
way where you could put this on next to something
like the Germs just as easily as she could, you know,

(45:21):
you know, something like Stiff Little Fingers or Rancid. It's
a kind of basically it's like a perfect punk record.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yeah, Brodi Dah is from Melbourne. Originally, the impression is
very much that, you know, this kind of tough persona
she has is very much you know, forged in her
kind of you know, growing up. She marries Tim Armstrong
from Rancid, moves to La with him. The front woman
that is then you know, appears in the Spotlight with
the Distillers. Is you know, in a very early twenties
still but you know, the kind of the archetypal hard

(45:50):
as nails, you know, mohawked punk front woman who certainly
in the early two thousands, an awful lot of how
the media and culture react to that is the cole
kind of objectified punk chick thing, you know, particularly as
part of kind of a perceived power couple type marriage
to like an already established musician who you know, she
was accused of like receiving handouts from or her success

(46:10):
to him or whatever. And again we're talking about this
very much people looking back after the fact, but when
you look at and you know, read about the kind
of intensity of what Brodie Dahl went through, and you know,
any woman like her particularly, but also you know this
very specifics of her situation very much. You know, it's
one of those eraas that you go, yeah, we should
hope to leave that behind. And she was basically like
the Courtney Love of the two thousands for a little bit.

(46:32):
But an awful lot of the Distiller's character comes from
this kind of chip on the shoulder, you know, someone
immediately plunged into adversity kind of situation. La Girl is
a song on the first Dear Stiller's album, and it's
basically just about kind of you know, being a foreigner
moving to La and being treated as an outsider and
it just being as like, okay, angry, fuck you thing,
and there's this sense that kind of Brodi Dahl doesn't

(46:54):
quite fit in anywhere, or was having to like really
like violently loudly assert her own identity. And what you
get on this and you know the first Distillers album
as well, but it's kind of the archetypal hell Cat Records,
you know, Gilman Street in the early two thousands kind
of punk sound. Hell Cat was Tim Armstrong's subsidiary of
Epitaphic Records that he released bands on. And when you

(47:15):
think about that particular kind of like insanely rowdy, but
you know again timeless based in like classic punk rock
like The Clash or whatever, but updated via the speed
of Bad Religion and all this other stuff. Fucking out
singsing Death House is like an atom bomb assault of
that kind of music.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
I mean, like I said, the moment you saw Hit
play and you get that hacking riff on Sick of
it All and the bass start popping off like the.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
First lines on Murder Murder, Yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Then Brady comes in on that Murder Murder. It is
like poor the fucking trigger like go there is one
of the most at it openers that you could possibly
hope for on a punk record like this, And again,
like for me, it's like musically like, there's nothing revolutionary here.
It is just a punk band playing hard and fast
but melodically, and I'm so cool with that. But you
have just got Brody Dhe at the center of it,

(48:06):
just like this raging, sort of lightning bolt of like
just energy and anger and just sort of like not
necessarily spikee but just fire like fire and hadred and
just trying to like convey all of these emotions and
that free spirit of what punk rock should be. And
you hang off for every word.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
This was genuinely startling putting this on because I got
it again, maybe it's had been sold to me, like
you say, it could have been their band name whatever.
I thought it was gonna be a bit more skate punk,
bit more pop punk. And this comes screaming out the traps,
sounding like the Circle Jerks, and Brody Dole's voice she
sounds like she's in pain like and the lyrics about

(48:51):
h easing disorders. It's so caustic as a way to
open the record. I know, this wasn't the commercial smashed.
I know the follow up did a lot better, but
a lyric lyrics like these to open up a record
by a pretty popular punk band, even by the standards
of punk music, I think it stands out.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, because obviously, you know, they naturally they got a
lot of comparison to Rancid and stuff like that, But
I think the Distiller is harder than Rancid. Yeah, most
of the time. I think rant To have their moments
like you know that the two thousand self titled, but
at a base level, the Distillers is much more violent
more often than you know, Rancid were. And again you
mentioned the circle jerks, and you hear things like the
exploited and stuff like that kind of in the mix

(49:31):
along with that kind of classic, you know again clash
sort of punk sound which gives at that extra like
knuckle duster effect. And then again Brody, whose particular venomous
delivery really goes for that where she kind of stumbled
into again like doing a bit of the kind of
Tim Armstrong kind of enunciated, you know, young impressible person
and that point, kind of copying that a little bit,

(49:53):
but mixing that in with her own, you know, very
distinct vocal tone, and it's so raw and like, you know,
it's kind of slurry a similar way, sure, but it's
like scratchy and hoarse where it sounds like nothing is
kind of put on or controlled. I really love when
she actually kind of go, like when she's singing and
she sings flat, like she has this ability to make
singing off basically sound really fucking good and like warming

(50:16):
somehow when she does the like you know, they cried
Freedom rose up for me on Seneca Falls, and it's
like someone who can't sing technically well but making it
sound like really like lush and uplifting somehow through that
human quality in her voice.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I think it's that giving it all nature to her,
where like every sime she does those like big notes.
We have a voice. You can hear it like cracking,
but she is belting out every second of bit, like
even if it is like you know, rafriend, the edges
are not technically perfect because it's just such a raw
and passionate and like real vocals delivery, it's the end
of them, sick of it all. When you get to
the we are the kids, we think life, life are scat.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Sneaking up on you there, Like that lift.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
On that song is like so uplifting, it's so kind
of like this is that kind of like punk rebellion life.
I mean shit that I turned to this on music
for and that just closing run of sick of it
always like ah, man, I want to I want to
take on the whole fucking world right now, like it's
so good.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Yeah, I think vocally she even if the songs weren't
as great as they are, I think the record be
of note for the vocal performance. And it is on
both ends. It's both the super extreme fight like desperate
and hate Me sounds like man.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Is the Bastard or something.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
It's at that level of white knuckle, but then something
like the young crazed peeling that it hit me, I've
got everything I need. What was so impressed by with
that is everything that surrounds that line is bleak, and
yet when it comes in you just buy that. Everything's
ticker ty boo. I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Like.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
And then the melodies on City of Angels, it's whatever
style of punk you like, provided you like a bit
more hard edged, they're able to provide it.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah, you know when you talk about vocalists having kind
of star power basically just up and everybody turns their
hairs and goes, wow, who is that? That's what happened
with Brody Dahl. The songs are great, but they've got
this fucking like death Howler at the front, and they
are shot to the moon because of that. Particularly, you know,
in the early two thousands, when major label punk rock,
you know, MTV, whatever else was like still a factor,

(52:16):
Brody Dahl was like without actually like really obviously artificially
cooking one up in a corporate kind of way, about
as cast Iron a superstar you could have cooked up
at this point in time, and twenty eight minutes, forty
five seconds twelve tracks just absolutely to be like this
violent and shrapnel bomb explosive with an album that ultimately

(52:37):
did prove still be very commercial and made her this
big popular personality and then subsequently got them signed to
a major label for their next album.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
It Is.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
It's borderline hardcore.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
At points of it, there are there, like I said,
there were, and there are a couple of like these
are like two song sweets everyone and then we like
the title track, but were like they do just kind
of go like here is a ferocious burst of hardcore,
and it's just like it's only that ripped so hard
that like the title track like that that sings in
Death House back and shout Brody kind of just like

(53:08):
spitting the band playing so fast they're stumbling over themselves.
Like it's just such a like feral birth of excitement
in between these big because then you get those songs
and it goes to City of Angels, which is like
a mega just punk rock here, and it as noam
that it can deliver both those fixes to me. I'm like,
I don't need to listen to anything else and I

(53:29):
can just put sings in Death House on and get
all of the fixes I want from any kind of
area of punk rock.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yeah, I'm a revenant grabs that bat in from the
first rack and runs with it really classic punk rock
lead guitars, but the pace of it is so at it.
And when Brody you know, sings that first hook of
the do you remember the raid without blowing her voice out,
she is like constantly on this knife edge of like
blowing a fuse. While then you also kind of follow
that up with just like big you know, the feeling

(53:56):
you go to punk rock for of all the huge stuff,
it's like the hilarious collection of like cider drenched punk
choruses that have that full on rocket powered kind of
factor to them, even when it like, you know, like
it is fun at times, like the Young Craze Peeling,
the kind of bounce and fun of like my name

(54:17):
is Brody, you know, I'm from Melbourne. There's just like
tons of like charisma on that before you then even
get to like the big threwers off around hook. But
my favorite stuff on this generally is like the kind
of basically hardcore stuff because like again like Seneca Falls
and The Young Crave Peeling, they're a bit more like,
you know, feel good, a bit more steadily paced. When
this album goes fast, the opening of that title track

(54:38):
literally sounds like she's hocking up a big ball of phlegm,
just kind of and then into that you know, roaring
cacophony of backing vocals chopping in with the seeing sing
death House, and then into I Am a Buller Bar.
It's fucking crazy, ferocious, that like screeching, you know, voice
cracking war zone of a thing. It's like when when

(54:58):
Creeper do poison pens or something like that like a
punk band who you know, can turn on hardcore basically
at any moment.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
That's just it is. It's just like flicking that switch
after the two that run of like those tomb Tiggo,
Cinec Falls and The Youngest Feeling Well, which are they
just kind of nice, rousing lodic punk songs. You they
kind of go right flickers with like step on the
thing on the pedal and let it's go time, and
they they just like rip your face off at that moment,
and it is it's so exciting that those like switches

(55:26):
can happen at any moment on this album, and it
just like it just again, it just makes it sounds
so live are those songs. It sounds like you're in
the room with the band with them kind of just
like sweating on top of you as they're like piling
all over you and like everyone is just jumping off.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Yeah, so cool.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
I've got a new reference point for one of the song,
which just hate Me sounds like scowl, isn't it like
that kind of like mad velociraptor shriek corn.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Oh, Like these are such an obvious like influence for
stuff like scale, particularly on that the sort of the
new epiece and stuff. But yeah, like so cool, I think.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
I mean, I feel like I keep stressing it.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
But the vocals, the different ways they come in and
the different tricks they do on Bullet and Bullet and
the Bulls Eye. There's gang vocals on it, which is
not a distinct thing on a punk record by any means,
but they don't sound like Pennywise. They sound like something
you'd get on a power violence record. Yeah, Like they're
just that bit more garbled and nasty. And again, it

(56:18):
would have been easier and more obvious to go, well,
we could have a sort of big whoe sing a
on gang vocal to get the crowd going, but they
deliberately choose something nasty and more off putting. But it just,
you know, like you said, it just makes the whole
thing so much more exciting.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Yeah, really weird minment on the record well is desperate,
which that main riff with that wha do, but the
rift is kind of falls over itself.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah, like the time signature is just kind of like
looping around and being like weird. That's like again, there's
nothing else kind of like it on the album. It's
it's just like weird crazy. Yeah, it's just a strain
breakout song near their strange.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Detour on the album suddenly you see sick and like, Yeah,
to include that is like a fucking hell that probably
wouldn't have been on again the major label mandated record whatever,
But it's there's something very stream of consciousness about this
record where it's like you are strapped to the back
of this incendiary punk band for twenty eight minutes and
they just like do not let go. But the core.
You also have one of like the best and most

(57:14):
like obviously marketable punk rock singles of the two thousands
with City of Angels, which is you know, if you
put that with a video on MTV as they did,
it's gonna sell a ton of records. It doesn't matter
what was around it at that point in time, because
whatever way you look at it, like whether you have
an ear for this kind of ragged punk rock or not,
it's just a perfect song. You know. I feel like

(57:35):
you can put City of Angels in front of basically
anyone and they get it.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Yeah, that that chorus is just immediate, Like you need
to hear that coross once and you know, going they
say there says their say, and it's yeah, like just perfect.
It's immediate, it's catchy, but it's still it's still gone
enough by and enough fire to it because it's you know,
like punk band thaking about la you know that's been

(58:01):
done those but this has kind of got a bit
more bien, just a bit more like a like a
nasy edge to.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
It, cider quality, because Brady was you know, from Melbourne
and she'd moved there and she had the kind of experience,
and it's got this cynicism of like they say, this.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Is just come to the apparent promised land of like punk.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Yeah, so it's got that. It is like a huge
party start of a Rabbel rouser, but it has you
know that that's underlying element.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
I mean, it's interesting hearing that it was an MTV
hit to me because putting this record and I went
in with none of that context and I was struck
by just how catchy it was. Like I could kind
of tell that, But what's what's better than just it
being a really catchy, great song In the middle of
this record, it didn't feel like a substantial detour. It

(58:49):
didn't feel like a mandated single to get people to
buy this nasty record. It slots in completely perfectly.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, I mean, if you're doing like a punk rock
great's hit, you know, like that song goes in there.
The riff is just like brilliantly constructed, somolodic. The verses
are the best kind of like odd charisma through that
kind of slurring flatness that Brody had, which is the
fucking staring grael staring growl. But I take a scar

(59:18):
Like every syllable in it is memorable and catchy. Somehow
she finds like a new annunciation for every fucking word
and it's a kind of ridiculous beforewance, but it's just
so on it. And then vocal harmonies and all sorts
of that song, like how dare you have a whole
ton of voices that can't sing in tune and you've
lined them up somehow and it sounds beautiful, just like

(59:40):
unreal behavior. It's kind of crazy how perfect a radio
track managed to be crafted from like this filth.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
It's it's just it's all about the melody, isn't it again?
Like you get melodies that good even if you' getting
people who can't sing singing them, if you can just translate,
you know, enough of that tune for everyone else to
kind of catch it. You go, oh, like the matter
it's perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Yeah, speaks to that thing we've talked about with Primus
and loads of other bands of what people are willing
to go with and this idea that everything has to
be super tidy and pro tooled and on the money.
It's it's just not true, like something like that, where
again I don't know if it's if it's deliberable, if
it's just a quirk of a voice going flat, the

(01:00:23):
sort of thing which any producer nowadays would have that corrected.
And like you say, saying the melody is so strong
that it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Yeah, this is just so forceful about this album, like
it's grabbing you and kind of insisting on itself and
that it be noticed and kind of, you know, its
identity be asserted. It it's a tornado And if you've
never heard it and you like anything that is approaching this,
it is like one hundred essential and demands a place
on your shelf. Where do you think of where this
still has ended up?

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
So like, I like everything, but I think like they
naturally know thing is that the grown up album is
you know, it's the like or like, they're not like
one hundred of raw punk band, so like I don't
have as much any different by something. It's an incredible record,
and then you know, like obviously they that the bottom
of a band who just like say, burn bright, burn Fast,

(01:01:16):
and it has to all come crashing gas, actually doesn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Yeah, well, I mean what basically happened is they kind
of they sort of blew up in the kind of
press and everything kind of roughly after this. I think
it might have been this album where they like supported
U No Doubt and Garbage on an arena to all
with like fucking this record. But the fate of that
Distillers is very much tied in with kind of the
press and how the scene at large treated them, because
you know, the Tim Armstrong marriage did not last, and

(01:01:43):
basically they were kind of sort of described as being
sort of ousted by like the punk rock scene. Again
you get Indestructible, the Rancid album that deals with that
whole thing, but that kind of sense of like intense
loyalty people would take to, but it's basically kind of
a divorce happened within the fan base people who are like,
oh no, you know, I have to. I can only
be a Rancid fan or whatever, and you know they

(01:02:05):
I think they dropped off Warp Tour because Rancid were
headlining it. That kind of shit was going on. Even
Kelly Osborne was fucking beefing with them, like really bizarre
stuff that happened. And Coral Fang, I think is basically
it's like a masterclass in how to do a more
like ready for TV kind of thing and keep the
personality because I think it's a more dejected, pissed off

(01:02:26):
record than this one is. This one is like, on
the surface kind of rowdier, but Coral Fang because it's
kind of you know, going through and facing all that stuff.
I mean, the cover of it as a woman on
a fucking cross like bleeding razor blades. Like it's a
fucking absolute bitter album. Yeah, and it's so compelling for that.
I think this record has less narrative than chorl Fang

(01:02:49):
because that the story of it and not just that,
but again that raw emotion bleeding out of those songs,
which again like drain the blood and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Just that's that's that's that's the distiller song that everyone
will kind of reach for as they're like all time classic, isn't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
It really fucking unreal song? And there are loads of
us on that record. This album is less unique than
chorl Fang, It's less musically interesting than Choral Fang, but
in terms of the record that like, this is like
the cult success that then made them like of aloved
band and it gets them in the door. And again

(01:03:24):
there's less individually about this album and there's less narrative
on it, but the songs are so fucking timeless.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
I mean that's it. It's again like the just me,
the one who likes you know, hardcre and punk. You
can just take like twenty eight minutes of just like
that without a single second that is a misstep. I
mean this is like just a absolute timeless album that
like everyone who if you claims like pop, punk, punk rock, whatever, hardcore,
you just this album should be in your like rotation

(01:03:54):
because it is just that whole like sound just done
to the highest standard.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Yeah, it's like I said, my first time hearing it
was a master of days ago and already it's completely
won my heart. I just think this record is if
someone if people had stressed to me that there would
be moments on it that remind me of Dropped Dead
in Man as the Bastard. I definitely would have got
to it sooner. I'm kind of annoyed that that isn't

(01:04:21):
like a larger part of the album's legacy, but I
think it just speaks to how great the songwriting is,
that that stuff's there and people don't even seem to notice.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Yeah again, I heard. I knew the name when I
thought they'd be like the Flatliners or something, but I
think it's if you want punk, particularly that has like,
you know, a fucking bit of a b in its bonnet,
I can't imagine you not liking that. I think the
experience that everyone has is just putting it on and
being like whoa, and it's yeah, unreal the distillers sing
thing death house And speaking of punk, we move into

(01:04:50):
a slightly different territory of it for our third album Club.
It comes from Japan Droids and their twenty twelve album
Celebration Rock. Me and Sam kind of looked at each
other the other day once we'd picked this, and we
were like, yep, we know nothing about this band. Speaking
for myself, prior to what I've read this week, I
had no knowledge really about Japandroids. I've never listened to

(01:05:11):
them before. I was not following the buzz around this
album when it came out Complete Blank Canvas. Sam, you
suggested you're similar.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Yeah, I think I kind of heard the name but
saw there were a garage rock two piece at around
the time, and I was kind of like, Nope, there's
enough of them out there fair enough. So I kind
of like moved on, which might be a mistake.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Yeah, So this one is it's on Elliott to explain
who these guys are and you know why they were interesting.
This band recently announceder were breaking up, and you suggested
that we do this album, and your kind of suggestion
was like, basically was all the rage for a very
very brief moment and then wasn't. I think Mark as
well was like fucking out. I didn't realize japan Droids
were still around.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
Yeah, that was basically the universal sentiment when they said, oh,
we're doing one more record and then we're going to
split up.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Everyone went, you're here what?

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
And they have a funny habit of they've done this
a couple of times. If on this record they did
something like three hundred shows. It was this huge success
and then it got to the end of the cycle
and they went, oh, we're going away for a bit,
and yeah, like a three year break or something, right, Yeah,
and they came back with a record that was so
just sort of rewind a bit. I think it's a

(01:06:22):
wild I think it's a wild how much this record
has been forgotten or this band, at least to the
point where, well, like we just said, when they announced
they're going away, people didn't realize it hadn't already because
for a brief period and it was maybe a year
or two, Japandroid is one of the most acclaimed, beloved
new rock bands in the world, and it wasn't really

(01:06:44):
until the end of the decade when suddenly people started
talking about this record retrospectively as one of the one
of the best albums to come out in that time,
where suddenly it felt like there was a renewed interest
in them, and it really was this one record.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yeah, So what you're saying about kind of the in
twenty twelve then being one of the most acclaimed new
rock bands in the world or whatever, like I intern them,
Telves was not following the circles where that was the case,
which yeah, going back and again I found the evidence
that this is true, right digging up you know, Pitchfork
and Stereogum and whatever, and like, you know, those kind
of pieces from like again around twenty twelve and then

(01:07:21):
playing Pitchfork Fest and all that kind of stuff. But
I think because they were more that than they were
in like the kerrang sphere, I wasn't again, I wasn't
plugged into that at that point in time. And we
are talking about that kind of indie rock, punk rock
crossover point culture where it kind of lives where it's
the same era as things like the Emo Revival and

(01:07:42):
you know, like Joyce Manner and whatever else breaking through,
but this is, you know, something kind of different from that.
What I guess, you know, what was the big appeal
around this band? I think.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
The emo it kind of cut against the Emo revival
of the time, where the most acclaimed bands of that
era and that scene were either very ambitious quite it
was like Joyce Manner, They're kind of identifiable by how
little they seem to care and how unenthusiastic they are

(01:08:15):
about their own music. And I love that band, but
that was quite a common thing among other bands in
that circle. And I think one of the things that
Major Pandroids distinct and so exciting at the time was
this totally, totally self secure positive was the album's called

(01:08:40):
Celebration Rock, and that's what it sounds like. They basically
made the happiest, most life affirming rock record you can imagine.
And I don't think it's necessarily that there was this
crazy live show or this spin that people got swept
up in. I mean, I think there was some you know,
how would you describe it?

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
There were some.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
I lost my train of thought the u There were
some circumstances at the time that I think made people
ready for this kind of record, But ultimately I think
it's just the quality of the music.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
There is something very early twenty tens about it in
a way that like again this is jumping forward to
maybe the end of the album Club, but like the
next album after this coming out, it was basically when
like Trump was being inaugurated, and that whole like oh
yeah positive that. You know, there's the particularly in America
and particularly the American press, and how they characterize things

(01:09:35):
and what they want to lean towards. There are times
when they go, oh yeah, optimism, and there are times
when they go, no, we need things to be socially
conscious and make a stand about the issues of the moment,
and like twenty sixteen is very much the latter one
of these. I think earlier, you know, middle of the
Obama administration, something like this could be a little more like, yeah,
let's all feel good about ourselves.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I
don't think, you know, that the president should stop us
from having a nice time if we want to. And
to be honest, I like you, wasn't that clue done
on this sort of thing when it came out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
I remember it coming out.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
I remember all the hype around it, and it was
at the time where I was probably most exciting and
ravenous about new music. And I listened to it at
the time and thought, oh, yeah, that's good. But I'm
listening to my Swans and Converged Records, so I'll probably
come back to that later. And then a couple of
years ago, if it was around the time where people
started talking about this record again and saying it's one
of the best rock alms in the last ten years,

(01:10:32):
blah blah blah. I was helping someone renovate their house
I was there for a couple of weeks and for
some reason we decided to put this record on and
it was basically all we listened to for the two
three weeks. And maybe it's that association that warms me
to it, but I still think this is one of
the most feel good rock albums I've ever heard.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
Any I'm obsessed with this record. Oh yes, Like here's
the thing because again in my head, they you know,
were like indie sort of like this hits the exact
spot to me that every like Heartland rock Punks or
gas An for Mensingers, all of those bands. This is
one of those records. And I had no clue where

(01:11:16):
has this album been for like the last how many
years of my life? I I hit Promis and you
were kind of classic rock guitar leagues but with big, honest,
warm melodies, and then Fire's Highway comes on and the
Springsteen that immediately hitch about that going into a met
more sort of driving punk thing with that chorus hitting,

(01:11:38):
I was like, I might cry. I'm just so happy
right now. This is this is what I turned to
this music for. I can't believe I've kind of just
this album has not been part of my life for
how long? And I'm now like discovering them as they're
breaking up, I'm like, fuck safe, people have I missed
out on? But yeah, I think that's say enough good
things about this album. I think that helps explain why

(01:11:58):
they never really crossed over into the rock thing because
around this time, like you say, the indie two Pieces
of the Moment, Death from Above, the Black Keys, That's
what I was expecting this to be. When I like again,
when I saw they were indibits, I was thinking it
was gonna be Death from Above and all that sort
of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
Like, Yeah, and when it's not getting covered in you know,
maybe it's not hard edge enough to be covered in
Korrang that that might be true. But like, when they're
not covering it and the only people who were talking
about this great new rock band are like Rolling Stone
and Pitchfork, I can understand why more dedicated rock fans
weren't endeared to them. I wouldn't care for that, Yeah,

(01:12:34):
And it kind of left them without a home. So
when they came back, there wasn't a lot of excitement
because those outlets had moved on to other stuff. The
record they came back with wasn't that great.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
But this album.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
I think it's a shame that it's not widely seen
as a classic in other circles, because, like I said,
when he got to the end of the decade, people
were talking about the best albums. This didn't come up
in any korerang list I saw, or Rock Sound or
certainly not Revolver or anything like that. It was those outlets,
And I think I'm glad someone was talking about it,

(01:13:05):
because this album is so fucking good. It feels a
bit like a lost work.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Yeah, And maybe again that's the the fan base and
the kind of circles that it was in are shall
we say, more fickle and slightly more have a larger
turnover of like what is trendy and what is you know,
what is the Pitchfork Best New Music or whatever, compared
to like I don't know about like the Mensingers, who

(01:13:31):
their whole thing is building up an extremely loyal, you know,
there for years and years fan base. I am not
so obsessed with this album. Again, I read something that
described this as non toxic masculinity, which in our context
maybe think about it as like the anti wasp, where
this is like woes and fireworks and good times and

(01:13:52):
high fives from people who you aren't terrified they're going
to tie you to a bed and torture you. It's
a real which way Western Man conundrum, and I think
you can imagine which way I go. But again, every
piece I could find of people talking about this album
and their relationship to it, it was always like I
was in my freshman year of high school, I was
twenty one whatever. It just like it lined up with
people and seemed to be like that, yeah, that moment

(01:14:13):
in my life when I felt that everything could be
good and positive. This album was the soundtrack to it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
And that's the thing is like hearing this album now
when I'm fat and kind of like trying to move
on with new things, it's kind of landed that a
perfect time for me to fall in love with this
sort of music. I mean, you know, a couple of weeks,
I'm going on a big holiday that I've been during
about for ages and kind of just been like, you know,
feel good about things and be free and cut loose.
And that's why this album just hit the spot me
and I'm just going like, this is it. This is

(01:14:40):
the soundtrack I need right now.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
It's I think so about non toxic masculinity. I think
that's actually quite a good way of putting it. And
one of the things I love about this record is
there isn't a really obvious dark underbelly to it. So
it's not an album about how fun partying is. Oh,
but then there's the next day and what what demons
am I trying to drown with the drinking? It's like, no,

(01:15:03):
it's just music to put your friends in a shopping
jolly too and push him down a hill. It's like,
just good, clean, fun. It's not an album that's super
obsessed with, you know, the emotional turnmoil of its creators.
It's just songs that make you want to run down
the street at night. It's feel good in the purest sense.

(01:15:27):
And I think again, I don't feel like I hear
much music like that now, which is maybe why I
connect to this album so much more now than I
did then, because when I was also twelve when I
first heard it, so I wasn't connecting to with all
that much. But every time I put it on now,
I'm just transported to this. Like say, it feels like opportunity,

(01:15:48):
if it feels like life's going to be exciting while
it's on.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Yeah, I think that's kind of what I was thinking
about this album in terms of again going into it,
and I think there's a little bit of it. But
you know, bear with me a moment that kind of
turn of the twenty tens vaguely tweet oh we're young
and we're free kind of indie approach where basically anything
spiritually comparable to the band fun is like not I'm

(01:16:14):
saying bear with me, right, I'm saying anything that has
a taste of that is like not my zone. But
considering that I did not like dislike this record, I
did not have a bad time with it, and I
can credit to that the fact that it is like
a bit more kind of boisterous and a bit more
like you know, rocking for want of a better term,
than you know that stuff that it might be in
theory kind of have a little bit in common with

(01:16:37):
because you know, it has more in common ironically considering
where they kind of landed, but it has more in
common with things that are aimed at rock fans, right,
because you know, the whole, the whole vibe of this
album is this kind of you know, big sort of
last big night out whatever. It literally starts with fireworks
going off on the knights of Wine and Roses, but
it has this kind of again the indie rock riffs

(01:16:58):
and stuff I can see being those kind of records,
but it has a quite crashing energy to it as well,
where like the end of that song, it's gotten really
loud by the end of it. And again like I
won't like, I see a band called something like Japandroids,
and my brain has a kind of preconceived notion of
what that is, and there's a kind of politeness to
a lot of these bands. But that the big we
yell like hell to the heavens moment, after which it

(01:17:20):
all then comes like cattlewalling in. It has a kind
of sort of reckless abandon to it where I was like, okay, cool,
you know you're you're fucking hitting your drums really hard.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
I mean, that's the thing that caught me as well,
because again, like I had, I had all these same
preconceived notions as you did going in, going in, like
when this band were kind of about and so that's
why ignored it. And when I'm hearing the Night of One,
I'm roses and how actually like you can hear a
punk band kind of playing these songs. Same with songs
like Evil Sway, which has just like this real like

(01:17:50):
energy and it's it is such a fired up pan
for something. It's like such a nice sound that hasn't
really got much in the way of edge to it.
It's still got you know, it clatters about it, they shout,
they like there's there's power to it, and it's not.
I don't think this is a plight album. It's just
you know, a nice sounding field good album. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
I mean I was thinking of bands like Pup and
like pewp Pu and stuff like that in terms of
like you know, Yelpie, high pitched whoa, all that kind
of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
That's exactly where like my mind goes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Yeah, but I think also this record is a bit
more like it's a bit less sweaty basement and a
bit more arena than those because like the production as well,
there's a lot of like guitar layering and like a
lot of space is being filled out by the guitar
tooe and stuff like that, and so it's almost like
halfway between those like basement punk bands and then I
don't know that stuff like Bleachers or whatever, which is
like again, is not where I kind of jump off.

(01:18:40):
But like, I knew you would like this, Sam, because
there's so much of that heartland thing in the mix.

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
I think, you know, it's interesting hearing these comparisons to
things like fun and I do sort of see what
you mean. You know, the only twenty tens. You know,
as much as I like helps, mister, this record is
maybe a slightly corny time. I think we can look back.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
And admit the Glee Club era.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Yeah, And I think anything that comes too close to,
like you say, that Glee thing, I sort of take
issue with. To me, this is it gives me the
same thing that I get when I put on Highway
to Hell. It's just I'm gonna have a great time.
And like on Evil Sway, which like you, says a
bit more of a punk tempo to it, it feels

(01:19:21):
like a bar dance or something. It's just a stranger
grabs you and spins you around. It's just it's so
much fun. And I think any song that goes oh yeah,
all right is basically a minimum seven out of ten,
no matter it is.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
I think if the drums were several steps quieter, I
would have a much more adverse reaction to this record,
but I like that has that like untained record and
as a guy just thrashing away.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
At the back, Yeah, I think, you know, again, a
lot of these two pieces, they can often sound quite
pared down. You know, I don't dislike the Black Keys,
but they're not really a rocking band.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
No, Yeah, this is definitely a they've tried to make
for what it is a kind of maximum as any record.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
Yeah, it's just it's again, it's sort of optimism thing,
I think, where everything sounds really bright and crisp and
kind of sunny and wind swept. It just the sound
of the record, even before you pay attention to what
the songs are actually about and what they're doing, it

(01:20:18):
feels like you're skydiving.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
It's an almost aggressively party record for the kind of
like indie punk thing that it is, where like Again,
could rub people up the wrong way, Like if you're
not receptive to someone putting sparklers in your face every
two minutes, you'd probably like, I want some real punk
rock cynicism, you know, shut that shit off for the
end of Younger Us and he's going, hey, just like
wordless exaltation.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
I mean yeah, like it is all like again just
very other thing. But you know, you got like for
the love vibe, which has got the kind of like
rattling kind of folk punk sort of things. It's a
bit rough around the edge is it's doing the call
and responsoring it bounced along to it. It doesn't ever
feel again too like as much as it's fine and
uploking in love and it's not you know like, oh
aren't we all happy? In like, it's kind of just

(01:21:00):
got a bit more of like, yeah, let's fucking go,
let's have it. And TI that is a song that's
just like blasting down like sort of a highway of
the roof of your converble down, just arms in the
air and be like, yeah, I'm free, nothing else matters
right now. And it's that energy to me that I
just constantly just I can picture these songs happening in
these different settings and just be like, that's what that song,
that's what that song sounds like, and I'm just transported away.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
And it's such a self assured record in that there's
lyrics on it where another band would try and read
the sorrow and the pathos into it, and they just
don't like on Younger Us when he says, remember that
night you're already in bed, said fuck it, got up
to drink with me instead, Another band would spend the
rest of the song going why did I get up?
Why didn't I stay in bed like I got up

(01:21:43):
to drink? Something must be wrong with me. It's like, no,
just better and fun. I came in, I said, trance
having a beer. Yeah, all right, that's all there is
to it. And I think again that thing you say
about people getting this when they were in college or
in high school, I think that sort of thing speaks
to people because that's that's the experience. But most people
will have had and you don't normally have it. You

(01:22:05):
don't normally hear it expressed in a positive way on
these sort of records.

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
Yeah, the album is only eight tracks long, and it's
still thirty five minutes, which is kind of surprising, Like
you'd think with a punk record with that kind of approach,
the songs would be shorter, but it means you've got
four tracks aside. Basically I was reading. Apparently they were
influenced by the vinyl sequencing of Appetite for Destruction, where
they were like we want the first half to be
like really like you know, dangerous, and then the second
half is gonna be a bit more of romantic love lawn.

(01:22:30):
I guess you know. Adrenaline night Shift has adrenaline in
the name. It's still kind of at it, but it
does have a kind of yearning quality to it as well.
I think maybe the song that characterizes that approach the
most is The House that Heaven Built, which is like
the big track off of it. Why is that the
one that kind of took off?

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
I don't know, to be honest, because I don't think
it's one of the best songs on the record. I
think Adrenaline night Shift, Younger ass Fire As Highway, The
Night of Wine, and Rosa Continuous Sun that are all
better than it. But for some reason, this seems to
be the one that because there's a song that's going
to outliin Japandroids, it's going to be this one. I
think to me, one of the things that gets me
about this song is it's the sound of the second wind.

(01:23:08):
I mean, like, when you're on a night out and
it gets to twelve forty five, you're going, oh, I
should I should go I'm not ready feeling this, and
half an hour later, for some reason, you just it's
like your brain digs at your body, digs into your
brain and lung something for extra energy, and suddenly you
can go again. Maybe it's a sequencing of the record,
or maybe it's the song itself, but I can't think
of another song that captures that feeling better.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
Yeah, I think it's maybe my least favorite song on
the record, just because again the way that kind of
like oh oh oh, it's got that pepier ed to it,
people in flower crowds bouncing around together. It's definitely not
as good as On your Knees by Wasp. But again,
I could the people who like this is their favorite
album ever, I can totally see them being like, yeah,

(01:23:50):
that's the moment where I transcend.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
I mean again, like when a song has like like
when the song this, it was laid to rest and
that's forgotten, left for dead. I'm so I'm gonna melt
when it's over this like swelling melodic punk riff. The
sonas of that, like a drendaling nightshift opening with hitchhiked
to Helen back, Like I was like, yeah, fucking go,
that's that's the cool shit, I want to hear it
just it is like just so much the same. It's
just tuned to just hit me again. I think it's

(01:24:14):
like where I am right now, and those poor aspects
of it like that you say, like like a song like.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
What the house that house heaven built?

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
How's heaven? But yeah, like like yes, that is probably
the plightest moment on the album. But again it just
swells and just cad of like pause, my heartshrings and
makes me feel like you know, I'm there having a
great time, and I can't I can't not love this.
It's so just like speaks to me.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
I've never made the Flower Crown association, so I can
see why some people might not like it now, but
there's songs on this where I just find it hard
to believe someone couldn't like it. Adrenaline night Shift is
my favorite song on the record. And again, when I
first heard this, I was removing wallpaper in a sweaty bathroom,
like it was miserable, and yeah, it came on and

(01:25:03):
I was just having the best time. Like when that
there's no high like this. He wasn't talking about removing wallpaper.
He was talking about being out with your mates, but
you just want to throw your arms to the side
and go, hell yeah, it's it's the It's one of
the most euphoric rock songs I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
Yeah, it's kind of anton us album, but like it's
thirty five minutes, it's pitched at the right zone. You know,
it's perfectly right here is your I didn't mean that
in an two neggive whay. Like the Wasp album is
also monotonous, right, I'm saying it in a similar way
where it's like, yeah, it's like concentrated that sensation, just
big hands in the air. We kind of approach for

(01:25:38):
that amount of time, like good, you know, way to
kind of structure it. The art style very funny for
their house style for their albums, just guys, just guys
being dudes and yeah, for whatever reason, that like huge,
just like ah yeah, fireworks in the sky, Everything's going
to be all right. Optimism really you know, popped off
at that point in time, where as you say, I

(01:26:01):
wasn't quite aware at the time, but its massively fallen
over critically again Best New Music in Pitchfork, Rolling Stone
called it one of the ten coolest Summer albums of
all time, and Spin called them band of the Year,
which obviously they hadn't heard Monolith of in Humanity by
County Capitation. But I digress. It was such a moment
in time that was reviewed by the Hard Times, you know,

(01:26:21):
like that's how this record kind of landed. So why
did it kind of boom and bust? Then why did
again at the end of the twenty tens it have
to be like rediscovered by people.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
I think it's a couple of things.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
I think.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
Those circles that were championing it the first time around,
like you say, a bit more fickle the average than
maybe the rock press are. And so then this eighteen
month period of being one of the most exciting bands
in the world and then one going Okay, we're going
to take some time away and come back. By the
time they come back, those outs have all moved on.
I don't even remember really anyone covering the follow up album.
And it's not a bad record, it's fine, but it

(01:26:58):
didn't even seem like people gave it a chance. And
I think part of that is, like I said, the
circles they were moving in. Also, even five years later,
the world's quite a different place. I don't know if
people are looking for.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
It's weird.

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
There's a market for everything now, But I don't think
people were looking for super optimistic, happy yeah rock songs
in the same way in twenty seventy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
Wasn't the vibe in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
I said, yeah, it's like I mean, this is a
comparison that I don't like because this song is terrible.
But I heard that Riptide song the other day and
I thought, there's just no way this is a hit now,
like it just it it's so specific to its time
and not in a way where it sounds particularly dated.
It's just a tone that I don't think people are
looking for anymore. And you know, japan droids, they if

(01:27:46):
they weren't going to change, and they're unlikely to make
a record better than this one. I can see why
people maybe weren't all that enthused by them in twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Yeah, And I think maybe that sound again, for that
kind of fickle whichever way the winds blow sort of
area would go out of fashion. But I also think
if your thing is again like heartland rock and that
kind of like punk that makes you feel like you know,
the sun has covered up behind you, which is exactly
what Sam was kind of experienced with this. You know,
there is testament here that like this album does still

(01:28:19):
I think a lot of people would actually still resonate
with this if they put it on.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
Yeah, I think it might, you know, in the same
way that in twenty twelve they were seen as a
band that were indictive of their time. I don't think
if you listen to this album it feels indicative of
you know, you know, to use like a ranking song,
like the cultural zeitgeist or whatever. But for an individual,
if you're just a person and you put this on,

(01:28:45):
there's no reason why it still can't speak to you
because it's not, you know, totally wrapped up in Oh
it's twenty twelve. Like there's no song in here about going, oh,
Obama is the president, you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
It's like it's that's all party before the Mayan calendar ends.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
Those specific cultural references. It's just it's just Field music.
So I think that's it is. It's not tied to
there's no never you hear you go oh that could
only happen in twenty twelve. There's no weird like creative
decision that kind of goes like, oh, that's going to
date this record. To me, this is like generally like
timeless in the way that something like the fifty nine
sound is timeless to me, like it hits on that

(01:29:23):
same spot. And that's again why I've just had such
a kind of like holy shitmember that. And again, if
you've not listened to this album and you like Against
Me and the Gasla Anthem and part from the Mensingers
and any of those bands, I don't see why you
can listen to and go like, God, this is like
up there with what those bands doing to kind of
just like feel good music.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
Yeah, maybe they were a victim of kind of falling
in with the wrong crowd in that sense, and they
should have come over to our lot where we'd all
have embraced them for much longer. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:29:49):
I just think, you know, there's always going to be
people starting at university, There's always going to be people
moving to a new town, There's always gonna be people
going on holiday. So celebration rock will never be redundant.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Yes, Japandroids celebration Rock. And finally, as we go down
into the crypt in the Underworld, Watanes the Wild Hunt
is our final album. Club Today. This album came out
in twenty thirteen, the year after Celebration Rock, and for
our album club purposes, this represents a very specific point
in Watane's career. Like you know, We've not chosen this

(01:30:20):
one by accident. Watin are a band with so much history,
so much law, relevance to different things at different points
in their career, baggage. Some of that is kind of
best left to other chapters of their career. So you know,
this isn't necessarily a full rundown on Watane the band.
We are honing in specifically on what was going on
with them around the Wild Hunt, which is basically a
band on the cusp of literally being the biggest thing

(01:30:42):
in extreme metal, make their most diverse, unshackled, flying in
the face of what half their fan base seemingly wanted
from the album, and subsequently create one of the weirdest
little cultural moments I can remember for an extreme band
in kind of my musical lifetime. It still might be
a bit of a bumper album Club because there is
so much their and I've had this slightly to do
on here for so long.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
Sam.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02):
I will come to you in a minute, because I
know that your kind of your one dalliance. I suppose
of being particularly into Watane was like tied to this moment.
But Elliott, I don't know if we've had that discussion.
Watane were everywhere in the early twenty tens for people
who were getting into extreme metal. I've recounted numerous times
on this podcast how important they were for me. Are
you like that into Watane? At what time did they
cross your path?

Speaker 3 (01:31:24):
I think the first time I heard what Ain would
have been around twenty twelve, maybe hearing Lawa Starkness for
the first time, which you know, it is just one
of the best blackl albums, I think, notched of it's
the other maybe ever.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
To be honest, I.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
Think is it two or three albums they released before that?
Yeah album, Yeah, those are excellent too, But I think
Lawa Starkness is a clear step up. And I think
even going back to that record now, the Wain thing
feels in many ways it feels od'd been going back
to that record, it it doesn't anymore, if that makes sense.
It's it's such an inarguably brilliant record that you could

(01:32:01):
see why it crossed over and excited people who ordinarily
maybe weren't that interesting Black Melt, And it was around
twenty thirteen that I really started to get into the genre,
and I think it was a particularly good year to
do that. Between the Wild Hunt, it's the sort of
it's likely at the time, like, you know, this was
kind of the blockbuster black metal record. I feel like
Sunbatha has gone on to be more popular and more

(01:32:21):
iconic of its time.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
They were different corners of the genre.

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
Yeah, so you had Sunbatha, this, Echoes of Battle by
Kaledan Brood and Keith Glory.

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):
And just an album Club in fucking Waiting. Let me
tell you it was.

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
It was a good time and getting into black Milk.
Each one of those records sort of does something slightly different,
and I feel like, why I don't Eve feel like
I think the Wild Hunt was can black. This was
the one where you go, how's black metal going to
go over the top?

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
Yeah, I mean the long short story, because it could
be longer than me, Telly, But what ain't had by
the early twenty tens pushed their way to basically being
the band in black metal at that moment, particularly when
it came to you know, the being the image of
the genre at large because there had been over the
previous handful of years, is kind of resurgent and repopularizing
of like some of the genuine occult aspects. Black metal

(01:33:11):
obviously had this like you know, huge boom in the nineties,
and then once that second wave scene kind of scattered
all over to different things, all manner of different you know,
ethoses and aesthetic fixations and so on kind of popped up.
But throughout the noughties you started to get these bands
again who started to take, you know, again the core
tenets of it very very seriously and basically pushing black
metal as like some kind of unholy mission and like

(01:33:33):
emphasizing the kind of spirituality of it and the sense
that black metal was like a kind of all encompassing
way of being.

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
You also had bands like The Devil's Blood who were
doing kind of the same thing at a cult rocket
as part of kind of the same movement. But in
black metal, I always feel like the two bands who
were most important in that and kind of represent two
different paths with it. You had despell Omega, who took
it much more obtuse and like less accessible to outsiders,
and then Wattin, who combined it with a kind of
a rock and roll showmanship and rebellion that made it

(01:34:03):
much more like a big black crusade out in front
of tons of people who'd never experienced it before. And
I think you can see in those two paths maybe
which band was destined for all kind of underground reverence
and which one was gonna maybe ruffle some feathers of
people who want black metal to stay a certain way.
Wataime were really revered in the underground by all of
those same basement black metal people in like the early

(01:34:24):
to midnaughties. Let it not be said that they weren't,
But as Elliott says, by the time of Law of
Darkness in twenty ten, they'd managed to take it shockingly
far to the point of like actually being a sort
of mainstream metal band in terms of their visibility. Like
it's a really surreal thing looking back on like twenty eleven,
twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, from our vantage point in twenty
twenty four, and all the places where watan would turn

(01:34:46):
up where Wataian aren't really meant to turn up.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
Yeah, I mean I.

Speaker 3 (01:34:50):
Remember in twenty an other time, the Strikele came out
and Suddenly they were appearing a lot in Kerrang, which
I was at the time, I was reading about as
much as I was reading Metal Hammer, and you'd on
the cover it would be All Time Low or Young
Guns or something, and then listed on the in the
bands and the issue would be and what aane what
taine the lawless Darkness band? And they were treated with

(01:35:15):
It wasn't even a oh, this band's mental. I mean
there was a part of that, but it was just no,
this is just one of the best metal bands in
the world right now, and there's there should be nothing
odd about us listing them and praising them in an
issue next to Young Guns.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
Yeah, both sides of the Atlantic, they were like, you know,
suddenly the hot thing that all the tastemakers wanted to
be on here in the UK. Everywhere you looked in
metal culture, Watang would appear one place or another. They
played sonestly I think was the year the Big Four played,
and it was like unusual for a band like them
to do. There was a famous Bloodstock set where they
were like third from the top and needed this massive,

(01:35:50):
like outdoor show. Again. Kerrang in the early twenty tens
not that much interesting, extreme metal maybe, but they were
in there, and Metal Hammer had them everywhere, to the
point that they were when went on the actual cover
of Metal Hammer, that might be like in my lifetime
one of like top two or three magazine covers that
I was just like the most excited to see as
a fan, Like the fact that an uncompromising satanic black

(01:36:12):
metal band had picked up that much theme that they
got the entire cover, like not the little thing in
the corner of the actual central image of a widely
circulated monthly metal magazine to themselves almost unheard of. And
then on the US side of thing again, you know,
the fucking the places that were writing about japandroids, like
Pitchfork and Stereogums whatever like Wataan were so visible that
they even started picking up over there, and you can

(01:36:34):
read like pieces from those places published during this peak
era where they were talking about Watane being like the
most exciting rock show on the planet, positioning them not
really in a black metal context, but like in the
same lineage as like you know, Kiss or like the
Stooges or whatever. Just anything that was like shit hot
on in your face, and a huge part of basically
what happened with watan Is, they got to breathe the

(01:36:54):
rare air smelled by Cradle of Filth and Demi bor
Gear like the mainstream black metal bands of their moment,
but they did it through this like sense of palpable
word of mouth. Holy fucking shit, have you seen this band,
rather than like having to write clean songs with like
big Hollywood orchestras or whatever. Like the fact that Wataan
basically still is kind of Joe agree but certainly at

(01:37:16):
the time shorthand for a scary show, right, like anything
with fire and blood and something that smells really bad,
you go, oh, it's like a watte in shirt, you know, like, oh,
you know, it's not exactly a wate shir like. People
quickly came to know what that meant, even if they
weren't actually a part of the black metal scene. There
were all sorts of fucking crazy rumors around them. It
was a rumor for ages that they would like murder
cats to fucking get their skins or whatever. Again. Around

(01:37:38):
the release of this album, particularly infam a show in
New York in twenty fourteen, which got massive media coverage
because it was picked up by TMZ who were like, oh,
my god, this band of throwing rotting meat at the
crowd and kicked up a massive stink pun intended. That's
where Watan had reached by this point, right. The whole
thing is that they were dangerous and edgy, and I
think that is It's significant different to again like Cradle

(01:38:01):
or Dimu or even satirra CON's kind of roots to
success in the noughties. But then combining that with that
mainstream popularity meant that you would start to get a
bit of a brewing backlash of people who, you know,
for want of a better word, think Watane are cringe
or posers or whatever. And the big moment in twenty thirteen,
they released The Wild Hunt, which basically is Watane sellout album,

(01:38:23):
isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:26):
Oh, they've done a.

Speaker 3 (01:38:27):
Black album, haven't they. It sounds like the Black album,
doesn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
It's exactly like the Black album.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
This shit is why I kind of scoff out a
lot of black metal fat because I get it while
they sort of say that, but it's a ridiculous statement.

Speaker 1 (01:38:43):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
This is like their most commercial record. It's you know me.
It's probably one of the first outside of Cradle of Filth,
one of the first black might be the first like
proper black metal album I ever listened to in full.
It's probably this album because again, you know, I discovered
Watain a year before when they opened The Metal Hammer Golden.

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
Gods, and exactly it's a fair example of what we're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
I'd seen like the name appear in Kerrang. I saw
there on the speed lineup, but they were playing like
during Slipnot or something like that, so I wasn't going
to see them. But I saw them play the Golden
Gods and I just saw this like hell fire show
of like just like I was like, the fuck is something?
And I was like, I need to, you know, actually
check out this band, and lo and behold. The year
later they released this album, which I kind of go, okay, new,

(01:39:26):
I'm let's listen to it, and it started to unlock
black metal for me, which again I've always have never
gone from our voice, dabbled in, but this was the
kind of unlocking moment that piqued my interest in black
metal properly.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
Yeah, And I think today, yeah, we're kind of past
the point of Watin being like so centrally in the spotlight,
and I think today you would describe Watan as like
a cult band in that like the people who are
into them are like really like religiously into them. They
have one of the most like passionate, you know, cult
like fan bases. Underground metal certainly in the present day

(01:39:59):
has seen they do all these kind of special event
shows where people gather from all over the world. Just
yesterday night, as we're doing this, Alec because he lives
in Sweden, is always at these fucking crazy shows and
they just played to like several thousand people an outdoor
show in a quarry. But you know, they're at a
stage where like both the mainstream and the cool like
underground scene police have kind of moved on to different stuff.

(01:40:21):
The wild hunt with the moment where they like pop
their head above ground and suddenly you know Watte work
there were posers or whatever else, or they were again
like you know, the bring people into black metal kind
of voice to this day that this album has a
very interesting reputation where in that like again that very
devoted Watan fan base of people who have like stuck
with them to the present day. I think it's probably
a fairly well liked album, Like it has popular songs

(01:40:43):
in their live set. But there are still people out
there who like hate this album and rag on it. Elliott. See,
as we've discussed Sam's kind of again the way you
came to this album. Uh, what was your reception to
the Wild Hunt at the time.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
I was kind of perplexed by by it the first
time I heard it, because again I'd been set up to, oh,
it's the it's the black metal, black album. They've done
a black metal album that's going to appeal to the masses,
and I put it on, and I was getting fairly
well versed in black mel by this point. This album

(01:41:18):
it's it's still fucked, do you know what I mean?
There's stuff on this which is not welcoming, loads of it.
There's a load of stuff in it that's not welcoming,
that isn't going to endear them to someone who just
likes Nickelback and Shine Down. I mean, there's stuff on
it which is going to be difficult even for people
who are into black metal. Like if you put this
on after Damisterous Don Satanas. There are moments that are

(01:41:41):
bigger than it and sound more arena ready, but there's
also sound manipulation and wrongheaded riffs that would have no
place on anything like the black album.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):
Yeah, I think you know that there are there are
points where that black album thing, you know, does raise
its head and has relevance. But I think just as
much it's Blackwater Park, you know, yeah, of like occult,
satanic black metal. I think this is one of the
best albums ever made. It's only pipped to the post
in Wattin's discography by Lawless Darkness, which I said at
the time was the best album of the decade. There

(01:42:15):
are so few albums that encapsulate essentially what I want
in music more than this one. And again I'm not
going to impose that on people if they vehemently disagree
with it, because whatever, we're not going to see eye
to eye. But it does mean that personally, over the years,
there are not many more albums that feel like they've
been made for me, you know, and like all those
people out there who don't get it, it's not for them,

(01:42:35):
but it is for me, which I'm sure that you know,
everyone can kind of relate to in terms of, like,
you have albums out there that you love that you
feel that way about. Part of me always was confused
by some of the negative attitude around it, because again,
what I am hearing on this record is just so
unbelievably good, and I would happily just go on here
and talk about this as like a universally lauded we've
all know it masterpiece like the Satanist or something, which

(01:42:57):
I think is the company this lives in, But instead
we have to talk as the kind of rmmte one.
At the very least, I think we can say there
are exceedingly few examples throughout history, but certainly in our
time following this stuff when an underground band has swung
bigger than the Wild Hunt, whether you thought it paid
off or not, the ambition on show on this record
is fucking outrageous.

Speaker 2 (01:43:19):
Oh absolutely, I think that's I think that's one of
the things that immediately kind of caught my attention to
it is it does It is a grand, ambitious, like
sprawling album that that shows that like it is why
it's blockbus in a way that like a lot of
black is like production wise, there's no there's nothing biscuiting
about this. As you know, you often sort of describe

(01:43:39):
a lot of black metal albums, and I often kind of,
you know, have problems with a lot of black metal
albums is how they sound. It's the production. This is
as blockbusters it gets, and that's just on like the
pure production side of thing. When you get into kind
of like the musical ambitions or the turns they take there,
there's so much scope to it. And it was one
of the things that again me like twenty thirteen starting
to kind of brant broaden my mum. It tastes beyond

(01:44:01):
empiricon stuff like dabbling in sort of it and still
catching this and being like really curious about it. It
was such a kind of like fascinating, explorative listen to
sort of see where like like heavy music can be taken.

Speaker 3 (01:44:15):
I think, I mean, I absolutely love this record. I
think it I way up whether I think it's the
best Wattane record. It's either this sort of lawless darkness.
And one of my favorite things about it is it's
true that it's all these all these things we're saying
about it being, you know, a bold swing, completely free
spirited and all of that stuff, and it's coming from

(01:44:37):
a band who up until this point we're doing a
lot to bring back the kind of the tropes of
black metal and appropriate them in a new way. So
it's this band who you know that there's They're not
like Wolves in the Throne Room or anything like, They're
not interested in ambient soundscapes and trying to capture the
Pacific Northwest or anything like that. It's hell Fire and Damnation,

(01:44:58):
not sax Of. It's it's ferocious evil black metal and
that band are taking all these new tricks and doing
things that will draw comparisons to the best selling metal
album of all time and warping them to fit their image.

Speaker 1 (01:45:17):
Yeah, and that's I've always held this, like in the
eleven years now since it in my head, it's the
benchmark for a black metal band stepping outside the box
like that. And to clarify, part of what makes it
that and part of what makes it so special to
me is it's doing that from an extremely traditional black
metal foundation. Because again, at the time, like you're saying,
it's a very good era for like black metal bands

(01:45:37):
who kind of you know, turned heads and bands who yeah,
probably even more love it or hate it divisive than this.
You know, Liturgy, Death Heaven, Mirka whatever and those are
you know, they're in their own category where you can
decide whether they are or are not black metal.

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
Or not.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
It's kind of a debate. As someone who really loves
and values traditional black metal, this The Wild Hunt basically
showed to me that you could be boundary pushing without
being liturgy, you know, like you don't have to throw
the baby out with the bath war. You can make
music that is immediately recognizable as Swedish style melodic black

(01:46:11):
metal based in the ninety second wave, but that that
music hadn't been completely run into the ground yet and
it was not out of ideas, and that music could
be made, you know, fresh and newly interesting. And it's
that balance of feeling very traditionally black metal in its
emotions and what it evokes to me as a fan
of that music, and being bold with it that makes

(01:46:32):
this record so special to me. Lawless Dartner's, I think,
is as good a black metal record as anyone has
ever made. The Wild Hunt is just a bit like
black metal. Plus it's got all of those same bits
and textures that I love, but with some new flavors
kind of on top, adding a bit of something different.
It's not a post black metal record. Like again, most
of the kind of outside of the box black metal
records had got pushed at the time were it was

(01:46:53):
just a black metal album that wasn't afraid to reach
for stuff from outside of it that it could use
to its advantage. And I think the result is again
most people listening, if you're not a super hardcore black
metal fan, if you put this on, you probably wouldn't
hear what all the fuss was from people who didn't
like it, because most of it is extremely recognizable as
like pretty pure black metal. You know, if you're a

(01:47:13):
casual metal fan and you dip your tone too black metal,
you put on Deeper Fundis or Black Thames March, you go,
what the fuck's a big deal? That's evil black metal?

Speaker 2 (01:47:22):
Literally that's it is, like you don't like you have
like the interest out, but you don't have your first
prom song the album be Deeper Fundany if you're not
a black metal ban that is as just like kind
of like fiery, horrid, demonic black metal, blasting drums, frantic riffs,
like horrid vocals. That's just black metal to me. And
that's the thing when again I didn't understand the contraversy again,

(01:47:43):
like to me this album I was doing, I was
kind of like I remember the first and I was
like this is just kind of like this is almost
like what I kind of knew black metal to be
for like the first five six songs, and then obviously
there is a moment where this album does people, which
we'll get onto, but so much this album is black
mel Black Flames March is as grand and imposing sort

(01:48:05):
of just this imperial stomp or drama, but it is
it's evil. It's it's not you know, commercialized, it's not
prettied up like I say, like Deaf Evan would. It
is like satanic as all hell.

Speaker 1 (01:48:18):
And it's one of those things that where you know,
if this was a record from like the nineties or
you know, the late eighties, it would just be completely
canonized and no a question it. It was a victim
of like its timing as much as they were, you know,
successful because of the timing.

Speaker 3 (01:48:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's camps of black metal
fans and there's people who don't like anything Emperor did
after Anthems to the Work in a Dusk, or don't
like anything Satirricon did after Nemesister Vin and that sort
of thing. I can see why those people aren't that
keen on this record. But to me, as much as
it is a big swing, one of the cool things
about it is it's totally in keeping with the classic

(01:48:51):
black metal bands. Like none of the acclaimed black metal
bands from back in the early nineties or the late
eighties stuck to one thing, you know what I mean,
Like Emperor completely changed, Dark Throne have changed about as
much as any metal band ever have, Like there isn't
I've struggled to think of many classic bands who just

(01:49:13):
did the black melt thing, and never even Mayhem by
the time they do the second album. It's an avant
garde thing, and in keeping with that tradition, what's a
just do some of the strangest things I've ever heard
a black metal band. Day profundis opening with that what
sounds like a cannon and then there's echoed vocals and
the twinkling from the intro coming back and stuff, and

(01:49:35):
it goes at such a pace that you almost don't
notice those sort of details that there's no way to
react to outside of doing the grindcore handschop like. It's
it's that level of pace and that level of ferocious.

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
Yeah, and again that the top line of this record
being oh yeah, the arena black metal thing, and they did.
They did write I can see where that came from,
because they did write songs that were like more you know,
popular amongst just metal heads at the time, but you
envision stuff like that like the mid Naughty Satirical albums
or something like brilliant those records and certainly not devoid
the personality, but they're very punchy, straightforward black and roll

(01:50:09):
type material. The Wild Hunt is like, you know, if
this is a rena sell out black metal, we should
dream of it being as experimental and artistically brave as this,
because this is Wattaan's black album. If the Black Album
had been more intricate and unpredictable than what had come
before it like, it's a really special case. There are
several songs that are basically just black metal songs but

(01:50:29):
are being kind of bumped up to make them like
as catchy and anthemic as possible without leaving that kind
of really subterranean atmosphere that Watain have. Black Flames March again,
huge punch, the air Rifts, the Black Flames chant is
really big. I really like the production on this album
where it's got clarity, but it doesn't feel cleaned up necessarily,
it's not like a pop production job. It's there's an

(01:50:50):
unbelievable sense of cavernous space within it. Actually, like the
whole thing sounds like you've kind of got some kind
of ritual going on in a vast cave beneath your
feet or something. And I think if you look at
the band at the moment, like kind of like gay
Ea and stuff like that, who are popular at the moment,
who have tidier, more smooth out production than this does
for sure, and it means that you get songs that
are amongst like the catchiest, most anthemic songs being offered

(01:51:13):
in this style that sound really in senjury. All That
May Bleed, which was the lead single, is like one
of the closer things in my mind to like a
groove black metal song where I will throw down to
that song like I'm watching Lamb of God or something,
which is obviously a number of people don't want that,
but fuck it, I'll do it. That riff kind of
echoing at the start, and that the drums slamming in
beside it sounding huge as anything, and as that verse

(01:51:36):
crashes in with the fucking come forth, come hither, all
that May Die, All That May Bleed. That is like
full body slam your face into the curb type black
metal groove.

Speaker 2 (01:51:45):
All That May Bleed is like an actual black metal banger,
like it is, Yeah, that group thing. I mean, there's
like you know, kind of like Mellow Death lead work
on there and stuff that. That's one we're kind of going, well, yeah,
I can hear commercial metal influences again, still just being
channeled through Black No And again I think like we
were saying about the production and how it doesn't sound

(01:52:06):
clean and poppy in kavinas the production that allows these
sort of things to coexist, like where it can sound
dark in cavnist and evil, but it can you know,
be fist punching and kind of like heavy and crunchy
and catchy. It's such like brilliant balancing at this album
achieves of like getting these elements to sit side by
side and not ever compromise each other.

Speaker 3 (01:52:28):
The way All That Maybe Lead opens it sounds like
and the Cradle will rocky. That's like Van Halen reference,
do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:52:35):
And don't.

Speaker 3 (01:52:35):
I don't know if that's the liberal or not. I
wouldn't be surprised if it was. And like you say
about black metal fans not liking the groove element, they'll
be black metal fans and got oh they're referencing or
they're bringing to mind things like van Halen, like eighties
glam metal, like Please No. But all of the bands
they like, I guarantee you they had van Halen records
and taking that ingredient and feeding it back into the

(01:52:57):
style of music. To me, it's so obvious, but it
doesn't detract from the atmosphere in anyway. It totally adds
to the swirling whirlwind that the ams trying to create.

Speaker 1 (01:53:09):
All that they Bleed is one of the fucking hardest, harshest,
most evil songs I think I've ever heard like even that,
so many manic elements that are so individual to black
metal still in it. The end of the first verse
when Eric does that like ranting, raving the kingdom of
the Living God, it's mental And if you're gonna make
your black metal song catchy, I too have tasted the

(01:53:30):
piss of God, but I spat it back straight into
the cunting wounds of man, of beast, of woman, of God,
of all that lives and may bleed. That is as
gnarly black metal as you can get, and you know
that Eric means every fucking word of that. What do
you do the salt of Satan into the wounds of
Christ into the solo? That is just black fucking metal

(01:53:51):
and part of Watting's whole thing. I think going back
to at least like Sworn to the Dark is like
you're saying, incorporating some of that classic rock and metal
ideas back into a black or framework where there is
clearly so much metallica worship in you know, Watain, and
it's giving you that feeling of what we love about
those bands, right, you know, that driving power of an
eighties metal band in their prime, right, Like it's reborn

(01:54:14):
in a kind of underground context, and that's what really
characterizes these songs. The Child Must Die is like, I
think the most metallicay one on it in terms of
like that is the arena black metal song per se,
because it's so true to the source still, but the
melodies of it, and particularly that main riff at the
start is like very like hey, hey, yeah exactly, and

(01:54:35):
it's got a massive anthemic vocal hook, which I think
Watain in general arrange and enunciate those moments better. Than
I think any band shy of maybe Behemoth, but just
the way Eric's delivery is allowed to hit in that
pluck now the rose the Child Must Die is so memorable.

Speaker 3 (01:54:52):
The Child Must Die it has that sort of like
populous metal riff that you don't hear really many bands
doing at all nowadays. And I think like that sort
of populist idea is so antithetical to some people. It's
so antithetical to Black met which went out of its
way to alienate people. So the idea that you could
even have a rift where people go hey, hey, hey,

(01:55:14):
is an insult in some way. But again, I it
just smacks of hypocrisy to me because we just because
you can remember the riff doesn't somehow make it not
black metal.

Speaker 1 (01:55:27):
Yeah, And I think what in are very very blase
and very like, fuck you if you don't like it.
We are unashamed of what we're doing, kind of about it,
like they are in everything they do later on. Sleepless
Evil is so crazy savage. The drums at the start
that song sound like a piss take. They're so agro,
And there's tons of like Old Creator and Sodom and
those kind of like first Wave black thrash bands in

(01:55:49):
that stuff. That's like very true that I.

Speaker 3 (01:55:52):
Mean, particularly, you know, particularly with the sequencing of the record,
I think that song stands out even more.

Speaker 1 (01:55:57):
But what is that riff?

Speaker 3 (01:56:00):
It's so long headed, it's not a normal riff. They
almost they go like DoD I'm scarred level mental for
a few minutes, And it's one of my favorite songs
on the record because it does in some ways, it
does so much of the opposite of what's definitive about
this record. You know, the scope, the scale, how sort
of sweeping and catch it is. For five minutes, you're
just plunged into total health.

Speaker 1 (01:56:21):
Yeah, and it's not the weirdest sounding song of just
the straightforward aggressive ones, because then Outlaw turns up a
little bit later and it's got this like mad tribal
element in a Nordic black metal song. I've never heard
another song that sounds like Outlaw. It is so weird
and distinctive out.

Speaker 2 (01:56:39):
Or having these like tribal beats and grooves going into
feral blast beat, and it's like it feels like one
of those movies that's co was like that that feels
out what say's saying, like, hey, black mel Purists. Get
a load of this, Like it feels like one of
the most antagonistic moments on the album in terms of
like it's so evil, No it is, it is, and
again because it sounds again like this, like it's one
of the ones again because of the of those beats

(01:57:01):
and everything sound it's sound like like an actual like
evil ritual with like a whole kind of like drum
circle kind of like thing going on, summoning whatever it
is from the pits of hell, and it just like
it goes back, but it will just cap with you
into these like ferocious, terrifying blasts of black metal like
like that that song is like scary to me. I'm'ta

(01:57:22):
come in with like because again where it's placed, that
opening riff is on like a jump scale of kind
of like oh you thought we were just a bit nice.
Get a load of this, and then there were moments
like this work again. You can't for an album that is,
you know, their sellout, mainstream commercial album. It's so unsettling
because it never kind of like you can never predict
where this album is gonna go. The sequencing is so
batshit at times, and how the songs move between each

(01:57:45):
other and the kind of weird turns into like kind
of like carnival music and all that sort of stuff
that they will throw at you with these songs. There's
so much like mental shot on this album that again,
I just I can't fathom someone listening to me, oh,
this is a commercial sellout album. It's like No, this
album is like oh, because it's you know, not impenetrable,
but every all of these things, it just hits such
a sweet spot for me when I kind of go like,

(01:58:06):
it is mental, it is terrifying, it's heavy, it is commercial.
All this stuff means that I can get on board
with music that I can sometimes find a bit difficult. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:58:16):
I mean, if you're one of those people who thought
Sepulcheers sold out on roots, as we you know, extensively
discussed in our sepultaer A special, you know that song's
probably not for you. But it's so fast and explosive.
The chorus sounds like it's being fire breathed at you
because the way they manipulate the production everything as well.
Like Ellie was saying, and I think there is a
lot of black metal that is like more true to
the rule book that does not sound as tangibly like

(01:58:38):
you are privy to something hellish and forbidden as this
does on moments like that Outlaw intro and outro way,
or just like what the fuck is this?

Speaker 2 (01:58:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:58:48):
Again, This is part of why I'm baffled that there
is a continuous people who don't like it, because what
is it that you like about black metal? Like, surely
one of the main appeals is, like you say, that
menacing thing, feeling like you're in the midst of something
genuinely dangerous, otherworldly and terrifying. There aren't many black metal

(01:59:09):
songs ever that scratch that itch as well as something
like Outlaw.

Speaker 1 (01:59:16):
Yeah. But there's also this twinkling gothic element to it
that is particularly for me. The opening track night Vision,
It's got a three and a half minute instrumental to
begin with, and those glistening clean guitars at the beginning.
It sets me up so well for some kind of
like Nocturnal voyage, you know, like it's got more in
common with Tribulation than it does Demi Borka at that

(01:59:38):
point in time, and the way that that rips into
deeper fund it one of my favorite, like intro track
into opening song proper transitions, going the insane wall of
films that seems to pan all around your ears like
a drum kit is fifty feet wide, and that demented
little riff like the squealing tail ends on it. It
is like classic Emperor worthy explosi hell opening up all

(02:00:01):
around you black metal. And again we seem to have
this theme of albums with really good opening lines, but
open ye Crypti of woe ye, depth of death, where haunts,
the sirens wail maddening and deafening, open your heart and
you might hear it too, Pregnant with nightmares beckoning you
is cool as hell, And that's how.

Speaker 2 (02:00:19):
Exactly like but they did a little bit of that
early twenty ten's optimism in there, don't they. You know,
that's what they're missing.

Speaker 1 (02:00:26):
Exactly, But like that kind of sentiment, that's how Watang
kind of make me feel. They have this real thing
of like something drawing your spirit out of your body
and kind of taking it somewhere else. And that is
totally what plays into the gothic edge on this album,
which makes it to me really key to not just
the album's personality but the overall black metal kind of ideology.
You know, because when this goes melodic and you know,

(02:00:48):
this has the softest stuff that Wata ever put to tape.
But I find it not really to be a departure
so much as it is teasing out aside of you know,
the again the kind of spin of the music that
was in there, because again I don't know what people
think the clean stuff on this is or sounds like.
But I mean, for a start, the previous album had

(02:01:09):
a guest appearance from Carl McCoy from Fields of the
Nephlin on it. They showed you this was coming like
there's always been there.

Speaker 3 (02:01:16):
And I think the the goth influence coming to the
fall on this record it totally explains why there are
these like balladeering moments because there's a rich history, a
lineage of that sort of thing, and it's always been
an influence on what Sean's music. It would almost be
weird if they never tried something like that.

Speaker 1 (02:01:37):
Yeah, it's all in the tradition of like super dark,
lavish but absolutely haunting Gothic songwriting, which Watane are totally
part of that lineage. I think again, the like surface
level of view that people have of Watane is it
is just kind of you know, a bog standard you know,
fiery satanic black metal band, but like taking a Scandinavian
black metal album and introducing ideas from like you know,

(02:01:59):
n Cave and Feels of the Nephelin and you know
Corn Matt McCarthy stuff like a lot of other bands
in other kind of lanes. You know, they get heavily
praised for, but you know, rarely has it been deployed
as head turningly as this, I think, and it makes
for songs that are so individual. The title track really
stands out in the Watten catalog because it's really funeralistic.
They did that a little bit again on We Remain

(02:02:20):
from the latest record, but it's got this like Viking
era bathory edge with like the droning clean vocals, but
it's so like chilling and atmospheric it makes your blood
run called.

Speaker 2 (02:02:30):
Those like chanting sort of vocals and whispers like it is.
It's so cakes an atmosphere that again it's not you
know again that's when the morellogic songs on here. It's
got you know, like a sort of Spanish guitar outro,
it's got loads of the log where the does that
come back? Yeah, it's got that on there, but again,
none of it ever feels like it's betraying you, like
that gothic like kind of like going again, Like that's

(02:02:52):
what ties in as you know, what come out with
the album cover from this, All of that is all
about this dark, rich texture that that that's kind of
what embodied this album. And like, again I'm not as
verse and what tain I've listened to all start on
this and I can sort of see where hints of
that come in there, and this is the album where
they fully explode. But this isn't This isn't you know,
a complete radical departure doing something new and writing pop

(02:03:15):
songs or emo songs or anything like that, or whatever
ludicrous statement people want to make about the softer moments
on this album. It's just like taking a pocket of
what was there before and kind of like expanding it
out and exploring all the sort of crevices of it
and seeing what you can tease out. And if that is,
you know, a Spanish guitar outro on the title track,
so be it.

Speaker 3 (02:03:35):
I think the softer moments on this record are the
ones where for me, those are the moments where watain
totally justify what they were. That was like this ambassador
for extreme metal because there are some bands or some songs,
some records where I feel like you can show them
to people who don't like it, and even if they

(02:03:56):
don't like that this case of it's something like Master
of you know, I mean, or you know, Crack the Sky.
But there were just these records of these songs where
you could show to someone who's not O fay with
the music, and even if they're not gelling with it,
they'd go, yeah, well, fair enough. And a few months
later Behem will come out with The Satanist, which is
the most inarguable extreme metal record ever, because anyone who

(02:04:20):
hears blow your trumpets Gable is going to go okay,
fucking fair play. But the moment's on this record where
they go soft like the Wild soft in air quarts
like the Wild Hunt, or they rode on they're just unbelievable,
Like you. Laulas Darnas has Waters of Vane on it,
which is one of the best metal epics ever, And

(02:04:40):
I'm listening to this record and I can't believe that
band have done some of this stuff, like on on
the title track, having that super evil sounding riff and
then the choirs and guitar leads lifting this horrible dingy
CEA six song, and suddenly you feel like you're floating
in space.

Speaker 2 (02:04:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:04:59):
I mean, for me, like Wattin are a really emotional band.
Is the thing. It's that's not what korrang. We're getting
you in the door with the kind of you know,
the appeal they're sold on, but as a band who
again have a very intense relationship with the music they make,
it's there's an immensely soul stirring element in it, and
what I hear in these songs is so genuine. The

(02:05:20):
two are fellow Hunter's part in the title track, like
that is genuine, That is heartfelt. It's not like pageantry.
It's super kind of sincere about this sort of like
outside a lifestyle they've kind of carved for themselves and
the people who who join them on it, and that
leads you to like the ultimate centerpiece and the most
heavily discussing on this album they rode On, which became
like both the stick to beat this album with and

(02:05:43):
the most breathtaking thing about it.

Speaker 2 (02:05:47):
I mean, that song to me was kind of what
can I as Salmons was like, oh, this is like
jaw dropping me brilliant, like I like, I'm sure some
people will crucify me for saying it. I think it's
the best thing. What of E is na road on?
I think that song is like a genuine spectacle that
few bands can can hope to achieve. Like I just

(02:06:08):
a swelling eight minute Western ballad that like takes on
this journey that evokes so many artists from you can
say Metallica, but you can say Nick Cave and like
countless artists. It draws from so much of that kind
of just like storyteller sort of music. But it is
so like haunting in drenching atmosphere, in detail, the sort

(02:06:31):
of the builds and swells, it hits so like the
j so it takes like what six odd minutes until
you hit the chorus that and and when it comes
in with that say good night bit, it is so
like like stirring in your emotions that I can't not
get kind of a b was like, this is just
like actually breathtaking.

Speaker 3 (02:06:52):
I mean, if it wasn't for waters a Vein being
the song that is, I think I would be tempted
to agree with you about it being the best wattaane
song because the.

Speaker 1 (02:07:01):
Fact that they've got more than one of them. Oh
what a band. Yeah, it's I mean.

Speaker 3 (02:07:07):
When this record came out and they were going, oh,
they've done nothing else matters, and I remember listening to
it and just going, oh, they've black melbur I've done
nothing else matters. That would be interesting. I listened to
her going, no, they haven't. Like it has that sweeping
tone to it, I guess yeah, And I guess it
is a ballad with acoustic guitars and all of that stuff,

(02:07:27):
but it doesn't sound like that. Nothing else matters. Sounds
like a huge pop ballad played by Metallica. This is
like Death in June, but with Slash doing the guitar solos.
It's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (02:07:43):
Yeah, like this is it's it's in my personal canon
of like my very favorite songs of all time. I
think it's easily one of the very best songs of
the twenty tens. Again for me, like, it's one of
the best songs from one of my like count them
on one hand, favorite bands, So it's it's definitely closer
to me than that. But so to put some kind
of authoritative stamp on it, it's one of the standout
songs for the last fifteen years. If I'm honest, I

(02:08:05):
think it's in contention for the best metal ballad of
all time. Yeah, on an album with a lot of
curveball moments, a lot of those actually go under the
radar because they rode On kind of sucked up all
the air in the room when it came to people
talking about it like a nine minute long cowboy ballad,
drawing this connection between kind of the nomadic, you know,
black metal lifestyle and the writing and atmosphere of core

(02:08:29):
Matt mc McCarthy featuring all clean singing from Eric Danielson.
The song is brass Bats, and the amount of flack
that this song alone got was astonishing. We're talking like
a black metal community equivalent of when machine Head released Bastards,
Like so many people fucking hated it, But my god,

(02:08:49):
there's to me there's something extremely like intimate about It's
one of those songs where from the very first notes
my disposition kind of shifts, like those first katanos changed
my inner chemistry somehow. And again, you know, we do
talk about when bands try and go for their sort
of metallica ballad moment, like you know a recent example
Parkway Drive doing Darker Still, and it was like, what
a cool fucking moment that was. No one has ever

(02:09:12):
done it like this, taking again you know, nothing else matters,
or like you know, fad a black or whatever, but
to such an absurd length and extreme where you know,
the punchline of it being like a radio ballad, it's
nine minutes long and you only get the scope of
it over the full nine minutes. It's not built around
a little chorus that you can just sort of clip
and put somewhere else and stick on an air and
call it a day. Eric's voice on that song, I

(02:09:34):
think he sounds incredible on it, but again in a
very distinctive human way where his voice isn't a super
developed one, but the way it sits in that like
ghostly desolate sort of environment, like you know, it's almost
like a candlelit song, like you are just so in
such a dark space at that point in time. And

(02:09:56):
the arrangement of it, how each when they add the
fucking tambourine and like the extra guitar lines and stuff,
it just like increasingly creates this kind of bubble of
like beauty around me. Watim are probably my favorite lead
guitar band of all time, and the solos in they
rode on one of the best lead guitar tones ever.

(02:10:17):
And in terms of conveying emotion through a solo, I
don't know if you can show me a better example
than that. Like I feel about these solos the way
people talk about like wish you were here or whatever.
It's just fucking incredible.

Speaker 2 (02:10:28):
It's that moment like sort three minutes in after the
very quite interesting again, like Eric's voice that that that
kind of ghostly croak to it just sounds so perfect
music where those lead guitars burst in and it might
just I'm just like slack Jordan, just kind of like
the audacity to have a moment that stunning and to
build on that and take it steps further. It is again,

(02:10:51):
it's just like I wasn't in that, but the idea
of this being seen as a sellout song when I
was kind of like this was kind of like when
those rare long songs, was kind of just like, oh
my god, this is this is an incredible journey of
a song. When I was, you know, used to my
free minute breakdown songs, like I was kind of like
transported away to this like desert riding a horse like

(02:11:11):
through this like barren landscape and just couldn't like sort
of believe I'd be hearing with this song. It is like,
again I set out a song, isn't an eight minute
nearly noum minute ballot that's built on patience. It's just
it's such an absurd concept to me. But it is
just like an absolute master stroke this song.

Speaker 1 (02:11:31):
And the moment when it hits back in, like when
it kind of seems done and dusted, and then suddenly
that female vocal comes in harmonized with Eric on the
word you have them ride on oh way to the dark.
It just crushes me at that moment.

Speaker 3 (02:11:47):
This is maybe a bit of a rogue comparison, but
it kind of reminded me of Hotel California and not
totally go kind of totally, but.

Speaker 2 (02:11:59):
That's just song.

Speaker 3 (02:12:00):
Which is it like seven minutes long? And again, if
you were a major label executive, you would not think, okay,
if we do a song with a really long, extended
acoustic intro and this rambling story that it's not even
clear what any of it's meant to mean, and then
this long, super repetitive guitar solo at the end that
would be a hit. People will love that it's long

(02:12:23):
song ever, Yeah yeah, and it's one of the most
listen to popular songs just by basically sheerly being likable,
do you know what I mean? And they rode on
for me is almost like a black metal equivalent of that. Like,
just because people who don't normally tune into black metal

(02:12:44):
can find something to love here doesn't necessarily mean that
it was a cynical move, because I don't think you
could write a song like this by being cynical.

Speaker 1 (02:12:53):
No, I think it's it's a special moment of songwriting
from Eric Danielson in terms of one of those moments
where like you really see someone's kind of inner soul
come out in what they're doing. And that is like
the Lightning Rod song. For all of the praise and
criticism that came this album's way, but we've been around it,
like I said, kind of overshadowed so much more. Again,
the way the production is used. So many parts of

(02:13:16):
this album are just sort like weird, like writhing around
and swallowing you up in the darkness type moments. Just
the percussion sounds alone, I swear this has the best
tambourine sound on any metal album. You can take that
to the grave. The guitar solo and Deeper Fundus is
like an anti solo. I'm not even sure if it
is a guitar solo, to be honest, it's just like
this petrifying yawn of dark ambience that's like let over

(02:13:37):
the song over a bit, and it just gets more
and more left field the further the album goes on.
We said, like Black Flames March not too crazy a move.
There is like a weird Imperial March section in the
middle with like horns and all sorts, and to be honest,
half the vocals on that are like ghoulishly whispered out.
Outlaw has this really fucking crazy section with this like
odd kind of shuffle rhythm that is like completely atypical

(02:13:59):
to Black Man, and it has almost like sort of
Cliff Burton esque bass guitar lead in there. You mentioned
the classical guitar break in the title track seems to
come out of nowhere, and that is how you end
up with the closer Holocaust Dawn, which is preceded by
a four and a half minute instrumental which seems to
kind of mirror the clean, gothy elements of the opener,

(02:14:19):
tied in with that again sort of Metallica instrumental beauty
and grandeur. But then Holocaust Dawn is one of the weirdest,
darkest ends to an album like this kind of subversively
so because on the surface, you go, this, you know,
could be like any black netal song. But I just
have to remind myself about this because you think about
they rode on there's an accordion waltz.

Speaker 2 (02:14:39):
What I mentioned about like the carnval earlier. When that,
like according to it hits, someone's like, fuck, I forgot
that was here on this album. And then when it
came back and I was listening back to this first,
I was.

Speaker 1 (02:14:48):
Like, this sounds made, and it's not like some kind
of like you know, like igor or something that kind
of like what a gonzo kind of moment. It arrives
so naturally in its progression that I barely registered how
weird that was for ages, Like, it's so disconcerting and
horrid that it fits as part of like that tartic atmosphere.
But like, who brought up that idea of the accordion
waltz in the writing room, and.

Speaker 3 (02:15:10):
Like you say, you don't really notice because there's ferocious
black mole slabs of doom, progressive rock moments. It does
everything with the exception of being with exception of maybe
the balladeering end of things. It does almost everything we're
saying try on this record in a single song, and
then they're trying new stuff. Like you say that accordion

(02:15:31):
waltz comes in and you're just totally primed for it.

Speaker 1 (02:15:35):
Yeah, like it is borderline a progressive black metal album,
Like it's definitely got Opethian qualities or like even like
fucking a Zealanarda or something like bands who are just
like you know, held up as those kind of bastions
of progressive heavy music every time. For years, I have
been going back to this album and I've been hearing
new things in it and picking out new elements. And
that's what I love about this album because, like I said,

(02:15:56):
an awful lot of it overwhelming majority really in classic
black metal, and that's you know, like my favorite thing
in the world. So that's fine. But this album, rather
than depart from that or do something more overtly kind
of you know, genre blending or whatever. Again, like liturgy
try to like transcend black metal or whatever this goes.
This is true black metal, That's what Watain is, and

(02:16:19):
that's what we will always be. But that can incorporate
these things, and those things can enhance and feed into
the atmosphere of classic black metal and all of those
same kind of ethos and points it's always stood on.
And again, some people clearly thought that this like distracted
from that or betrayed it or whatever. But to me,
this is like as honest an expression of what those

(02:16:40):
kind of ideas can mean as anything. One of the
richest hours of metal I've ever heard.

Speaker 3 (02:16:48):
I can't think of many records that are more have
their cake and eat it than this one where those
black beltal bands I was talking about earlier, who and
Who changed a line. I love the changes that pretty
much all of them made, but there is an You
do also have to concede that something is lost in
those changes, because it has to be because.

Speaker 1 (02:17:09):
To replace something else.

Speaker 3 (02:17:11):
What blows me away about this record is I don't
actually think what Taane lose any of the fire, the
terror that defines their early records. You just get more.
Maybe it's a strange comparison, but It reminded me of
when Code Orange were coming out with Underneath, and you think,
how are they going to follow up Forever? And it

(02:17:31):
was just more like you, more wild turns but also
more aggression. Everything turned up to eleven and pulling off.

Speaker 1 (02:17:43):
Yeah, what do you think this album's legacy is? Because
wat Ain't on this were like the biggest they ever got.
The interesting thing is they then took five years to
release their next album, and that album tried it more
for clips ended up going much more back to basics
and dialing back all the fat to just focus in
on the theory. So this album kind of stands a
bit of an anomaly in their catalog.

Speaker 3 (02:18:02):
Yeah, I think, to be honest, I don't think it's
helped by The Satanist coming out about six months later,
and when we look back at extreme metal of that time,
that sort of dominates the conversation for everything that album
did and the way it, you know, sort of change
the parallem of what you could expect from the popularity
of an extreme metal band. I think what Taine going

(02:18:23):
back to basics after this record in some ways helps
and hinders it. I think it gives the people who
don't like this record more reason to give it a
kicking and say, oh, yeah they did that and then
they never did it again. Yeah, they just you know,
they went back to doing what they should have done. Yeah,
but it also means there's nothing else like it, not
just in their catalog, but in anyone's catalog.

Speaker 1 (02:18:46):
Yeah. The way you were again describing these bands that
change and offer different things over a cannon, that's how
I feel about like the body of work. I love
every album very, very dearly, but they are quite different
to one another. And I think for again, for a
while I was like, I wish Wattin would have more
wild world hunting them, and I still do kind of

(02:19:08):
hope that again, some of these elements do return to
the surface. Again. There were bits of it on the
last record. I really appreciated that. But there is something
very special about again, how this record stands on its own,
and how the band have kind of, you know, veered
off into other things in its aftermath.

Speaker 3 (02:19:23):
Yeah, because none of their records even really look like this.
I mean, it's got a different sort of look to
the album cover, that the production is distinct to this one.
The style of songs, the songwriting style hasn't really been
replicated before or since. It's one of those albums where
if you want what they selling, they're the only ones selling.
There is no substitute for the World Hunt.

Speaker 1 (02:19:44):
Yeah, I think it's certainly it's the most like wings
fully spread, unfettered and unleashed they got creatively kind of
nice that it has that distinction. I do think it's
very naturally part of their DNA. Even if they don't
ever go as buck wild as this album again, I
think you will always hear bits of it in their DNA,
particularly again that kind of dark storyteller side to it.
That's part of the appeal for them always for me.

(02:20:08):
But in terms of like more than an album that
anointed them like the New Superstars or anything, just in
terms of an artistic achievement, I think it is massive because,
like I said, I think about The Wild Hunt a
lot as a sort of like barometer for ambition within
black metal, and like you know, its overall impact was
a little cap again, like The Satan has came out
within like six months of it, and kind of commercially

(02:20:29):
it sort of did like a lot of what The
Wild Hunt didn't quite do in terms of having a
knock on effect within the scene and so on. Then,
but The Wild Hunt is the crazier, more inventive album
out of those two. And I think it preempted a
lot of elements I mean, goth cowboyism, you know, included,
you know, maybe to a degree. Other bands were sworn off,
not wanting to have like a kind of they rode
on situation on their hands or something. But I think

(02:20:51):
someone should have a crack.

Speaker 3 (02:20:53):
Well, there are bands who are sort of picking up,
like you know, Wayfarer. Obviously they're doing their yeah, American
goth black metal thing. But it's the thing that makes
the Wattaane recipe unique is that that suggestion that there's
something sincerely dangerous in it, which I don't think many
bands like. There are a couple bands that have that

(02:21:16):
quality to them, but they're not normally inventive enough to
try something like this.

Speaker 1 (02:21:21):
Yeah, it's it's a fucking one off moment. It's one
of the most one off metal records of the twenty tens.
Like we said, we all kind of agree that it
is a standout moment within its its field. For sure.
Wataian the Wild Hunt, and I don't even think it
is the best watan album. Thanks everybody for listening. What
a enjoyable bunch of album clubs that was. Cheers. So

(02:21:44):
we will be back with another one of these at
some point, so we will have more. In the meantime.
I suppose we're slightly gearing up for towards the end
of the year. Now we're on the sort of the
home stretch, but we will get there. Check out all
those albums. Japandroids if you've never heard it, Fucking Distillers
if you've never heard it, and yeah wasp hell yeah,
see you next time, everybody, Bye bye,

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