Horny Girl Destruction World Stuff

Episode Transcript
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(00:26):
Hello, everybody, Welcome to Isaw John Waters at the pis Grave Show.
This is sas Metal obviously really justplayed a trick on you there.
This is your weekly rock and heavymetal podcast. We have come at you
once again, this time to talka big old bag of album reviews.
We're here every other week as wellgiving you the news and whatnot, but

(00:46):
today it is the monthly reviews episode. We have got some fucking doozies to
talk about today. Over the courseof this episode, when we get around
to it, we are going totalking about the new records from Creeper,
the Mensingers, Blink, Torn eightytwo, Roger Waters, Svalbard, Kristin
Hater or the Reverend Michael christin Hater, Primordial, and Maggot Hart. Before

(01:10):
that, thank you for bearing withus. In terms of this episode being
slightly later than usual, as we'regoing to report, we've been sort of
you know, around the block afew times. My name is Paren Hayish.
As usual, Elliot Paisley, andSam Dignall are here. As said
there, me and you, Samin particular, we have about six or
seven shows that we've been to betweenus. There are some that are of

(01:30):
some significance that you know should begiven a little moment. There are some,
yes, absolutely definitely, yes,yes, I know Brin's finest returning
believe or not, I was.I was factoring some of my own shows
into that equation as well. Butyeah, there's some breeze over some will
dedicate a bit more time to Isaw couple of Lunar a couple of days
ago. It was it was notthe big beyond the Redshift thing, but

(01:52):
it was the you know, theI think the date before that, they
were fucking superb. I walked intothe venue at the start of the night
and there were lots of drum kitson stage and I was like, oh,
okay, you know, I guessyou know, one for every support
band. The second band who areon Gold, who were really good live
by the way, but they didnot use a full live drum kit.
They would use like an electronic padone and they went, oh, Cot

(02:15):
of Luna are going to have twodrum kits. Yes, So that was
cool, Sam, you have aminute tops to talk about the fucking Welsh
band. Oh man, this isnot fair, there's so much but yes,
So I saw Kids and lass Housescome back. What I will say
like, this wasn't the overwhelming Ihad the best night experience. It could

(02:37):
have been smart casual. They wereplaying in four. I've seen them play
that album in four twice already before. Like, I do love that album
a lot. Problem me is isit's one of those albums that a lot
of people love it, love thefirst half of it, and when you
get into that second half of thedeep carts, I was having a great
time. A lot of the audiencefell asleeping kids and glass houses. Didn't
make a consistent record. I meanthey have, They've got two very consistent

(02:59):
records, are the ones following.What I will say though, is they
did then like it was like asix song lot encore afterwards, But it
was basically like they finished, wentthe album in full, came back on
and then played a bunch of songsoff of mostly off of their second album
Dirt. Didn't touch their best album. How dare they just as for in
gold Blood? All that energy Iput into that album club that time just

(03:19):
wasted. But that was fantastic thaton core And then to be fair to
them, they seemed genuinely stoked tobe back on stage. Allied was on
really good form, and they aregoing to be releasing a new album,
so they've got that to look forwardto. But I had a good night.
It was just it was kind ofon those like oh yeah album in
full shows, they don't always entirelywork unless the audience is like one hundred
percent in on every song on thebeing a classic. Yeah, that new

(03:42):
album they've got coming out. Forus to cover it, it needs to
be a a really dead month,b really funny or see you swear down
and insist that it's like top twentyof a year contender for you. We
are not doing well do that?Yeah you Also, as we're talking full
on about the Creeper album, soa lot can be saved for that.

(04:03):
But they've been doing all sorts oflike release weak antics first sang with or
of late, including various special shows. I don't record exactly which ones you
were at. What was your Creeperexperience as well? So I only went
to one of them, which wasthe second of two show they did that
Lafayette in London, which was theydid the Mattine shows okay and an evening
the second one of the two theydid in the one day Yeah yeah,
and they were you know, justcreeper in a fairly small, no barrier

(04:26):
venue. It was rowdy as fuck. I'm not I won't go into much
yell. They plaid quite a lotof sangofore those songs sounded incredible live.
I will say they look the fuckingbusiness on this run, like I didn't
have us, Like the promo shootsAnything is one of the coolest magazine covers
I've seen it, and I guessyou know, over the course this year,
them strutting on stage like that level, like Will is like Wol's always

(04:48):
been a fucking coolest fuck rock starfront man, but him now sunglasses,
leather jacket, blood, like juststriting about the stage. He is like
the fucking guy. And like thisset was cool because they played a couple
of deeper cuts they haven't played fora good Will so jealous about Room three
or nine, I am that wasone in the set. I was like

(05:09):
fucking begging for that to still bein the Settlers come next month tour and
it probably won't, but I didmiss out. I think they did poison
pens on the other days the otherand I would have probably kicked off for
but yeah, they were fantasty itwas like an hour set. They just
powered through cruver a great live.Everyone knows this and yeah, like I
say, sangafore, I won't gotoo much into those songs because big old

(05:29):
discussion that coming, but yeah,a great time. Yes, last weekend
I to give something more of ayou know, a full on the moment
it deserves. Also relevant to arecord we're going talking about later, but
more of the end of an erarather than the beginning of one. A
few days before the release of theChristian Hater album that we're going to talk
about later, the final ever LinguiIgnoto shows happened at the Isl'ton Assembly Hall

(05:54):
in London, which is a lovelyvenue. I've been there a handful of
times. I love that place.It was a really grand environment for it
to happening. I went to bothnights. Really glad I ended up going
to both nights because the two showswere completely different. Like if you only
went to one, it was brilliant, but the whole picture is really what
you got from going to both.At a great weekend in general, I

(06:15):
saw so many people met Ryan deFreighters for the first time in like a
handful of years just in the pub, so that was great, but the
first lingering not of show was essentiallyfully piano based. Joe Quayle, the
cellist beforehand, fucking incredible musician towatch life, But the first lingery note
show, she was basically one womanand a piano, nothing else, no

(06:41):
extra tracks or anything. It waslike the most intimate lingering note experience that
you could feasibly imagine. The reallyincredible part. I mean, she the
set list for that largely drew onthe Caligular album and the material from before
that as well, some stuff fromall Bitches Must Die, that kind of
era. But she basically sat downa piano, played and sang continuously for

(07:03):
an hour, with no breaks forapplause or anything. The audience was just
in absolute hushed silence for an hourstraight while she just moved from like piece
to piece to piece. It wasalmost like fragments of songs the time because
she hoped. She came out andthe first thing she played was like the
end part, the final section ofDo You Doubt Metraitor? And then at

(07:24):
the end of that hour she cycledback and did the same part again,
having gone through all of these otheryou know, piece of the material along
the way. It was absolutely transfixing. And then you know, like I
said, the complete silent from thecrowd. The moment that she finished the
applause was just like people stomping onthe ground like it was bananas, the
level of volume that it hit.And then she came out and did an

(07:47):
encore of her covers of Wicked Gameby Chris Isaac and Jolene of course,
which was a really beautiful way toend that. She came out again the
second time, having done that firsthour which was so again steer and just
transfitching, comes out and goes,wow, what a bunch of bops her,
and then it goes into the coversand then the moment she finished at

(08:07):
playing Joe Lene, suddenly the PAhit whoa, whoa. This is a
sung for the broken, really likestrange atmosphere. I wasn't able to make
the new metal karaoke on the Sundaynight, but that looked like a fucking
banana's time as well. The secondshow was the one with the really stacked
bill like Ken Mode were really reallyfucking good supporting Ash and Spire as my

(08:30):
first time seeing them after the HostileArchitecture album. I think we will give
like We can talk more about theirlive show in depth when it comes to
do in the Damnation episode in acouple weeks time, because I'm sure sure
someone here is gonna going to seethem, but they might be the best
metal band in the country right now, certainly if you're talking extreme stuff,
I would put them in that inthat in that category. The linguoin note

(08:52):
show here was the the more Iguess full kind of bells and whistle thing
in terms of a lot of youknow, the kind of the harsh electronic
tracks and so on. You know, various bits of noise are kind of
flowing in and out, including sometechnical difficulty at teas where they were just
constant sort of like mic feedback withvibrations and stuff. But it kind of

(09:16):
didn't matter because it would kind of, you know, it fell into what
was going on with the songs,and you could still hear her really clearly
sort of singing through that stuff withthe different vibe. In performance, there
was a rather beautiful moment when shestarted doing repent Now, Confess Now,
and like I said, the previouslyno real applause or anything throughout most performance,
she starts doing this repent Now,Confess Now, the guy next to

(09:39):
me just went WHOA, which wasyou know, not the vibe and the
setlist for this was but pretty muchthe entirety of the Sinner get Ready album,
which was absolutely incredible to hear allof that stuff live. She the
lighting was just fully like you know, really dark, almost entirely done by

(10:01):
these lamps that she had on stage, and she'd pick them up and move
them around and sort of I thinkit's more of like if you if you're
in America, for example, andyou've seen Lingering, not her on tour
in the last couple of years,I think this is more like the show
that you might be familiar with,but I hadn't seen it before, and
that was amazing, particularly you know, doing the part where man is like
a spring flower. She walked outand basically she came out like the side

(10:22):
door from where the stage was andjumped on this like table next to the
bar, which happened to be abouta meter or two from where I was
standing. And then she was juststanding this holding one of those lamps,
just screeching that you know, likeno one is enough over and every again.
It was like, oh my god. And then she like got down
and walked through the crowd carrying likethis lamp with hers, so you could
just see this light sort of movingthroughout it while she sang the song.
It was a really really special,special couple of shows. And Yeah,

(10:48):
and then very very immediately in theground scheme of things got to hear the
next part of what that is,so that was pretty amazing. I then
on Sunday again our breeze Path.This because a lot to talk about,
but I went you know, homevia stopping in to see Alcest performing the
Arcade Loon album, which is mypersonal favorite from theirs, and that was

(11:09):
just sounded absolutely as mercurial as ever. They were brilliant. Monday that I
had the weirdest four day bender.I saw another band we can talk about
later, but Blink Twinity two Icaught on their UK tour, which was
really great. It is my firsttime ever seeing Blink. They're not a
band who I, you know,grew up going to see or anything,
and they're a kind of band wherelike I guess I'll talk about it a

(11:30):
little bit more later, but they'renot a band that I think of as
being like one of my acts,like my band who I grew up with
necessarily, but like there was aperiod of sixth form where I basically,
you know, walk to school listeningto songs from Dude Ranch like every day.
So like you know, when theywere playing damn It as the main
set closer, that was like,oh fuck yeah, Like that's you know,
like teenage me getting something you knowfulfilled. There As a show,

(11:54):
it was really fucking strong, Ithought, considering like you know, I
have obviously the return of Tom isthe big actor I've seen footage from you
know, ten years ago around youknow, I know where Tom samously has
not been up to it, andyou know he's Tom DeLong. We're not
talking about a Rob Halford level performancehere, but it was it was you
know, when we watched the Coachellashow for their first show back together,

(12:18):
and we were like, this doesn'tsound terrible. This sounds like about as
good as you would want Blingkay ortwo now to sound. That's how I
felt like he was Tom. Butthere was no noticeable moment where I went,
oh, that's that's a bit off, Like he sounded fine and the
performance was really really strong. Theset list was just an absolute you know,

(12:39):
fucking banger central. Even the newsongs again, talk more about these
later, But like I hadn't listenedto most of the singles bar Edging and
the title track, But Edging iscertainly better live, you know, without
the kind of issues that it hason record. There are some other singles
that it turns out I quite like. So they were, they were good
and otherwise. I mean they cameout open with the anthem part two into

(13:01):
the Rock Show Family Reunion man Overboard, feeling this violence like it's just pretty
fucking after hit, Yeah, prettyamazing violence. They were doing this great
bit where Mark wrought behind Travis's kitand basically covered hit his eyes with like
his hand towel. So Travis wasbasically playing the entire of that song blind
folded, like a bit of showmanship. You can, I mean, you

(13:22):
can tell Travis it's gotten overflying becausethen the fact that his drum riser flew
around the fucking like stage like levitatedup and moved around. I was like,
you were not seeing that guy doingthat a long time ago. It
was pretty amazing. Also, hewas bleeding all over his kit, like
literally the cameras having to zoom andbe like, look at what Travis has
done to his hands. He's justlike covered in blood snaire looks like it
was Zach Hills or something like.Honestly, an evening of watching Travis Travis

(13:43):
Ryan then Travis Barker's you know,playing is almost enough to forgive him his
his trespasses over the last few years. Almost, But yeah, it was.
It was brilliant and again moments forme, like I when they played
up All Night fairly early on,I was like, oh, that be
in the neighborhoods one I wasn't expectinganymore. Towards the end of like the
main set, suddenly Ghost on theDance Floor starts and I'm like, ah,

(14:07):
yeah, that's one of my absolutefavorite tunes. It was. And
the camaraderie as well, I thinkfelt very genuine, you know, like
they were doing their jokes they alwaysdo. People will have their different levels
of mileage for that, but therewere various points where they genuinely made me
laugh. I think they played AliensExist obviously, and the backdrop on the
stage came up with basically like loadsof like sort of doctored newspaper headlines of

(14:28):
just pictures of Tom's face and theheadline where he was right like they're just
they're having an absolute uh giggle withit all, and you know, and
when they spoke about, you know, the various things that kind of happened
over the last few years that havebrought them back together, it did feel
very, very genuine. So Ithink I think I feasibly had as good
a first time experience of Blank onthe twenty twenty three as a person could

(14:52):
feasibly have. Like it was.It was a really really probably the worst
show I went to in the lastweek, unbelievably, but it was really
really great. And so we arenow going to talk about all of that.
First, got a little bit ofnews, actually, it's it's nice
having said all that this week ofall weeks to hear some news about matts
Kieva as well, because the AlkalineTrio have announced that they are gonna be

(15:15):
having their new album out I believeearly next year. It is called Blood,
Hair and Eyeballs, you know,gnally it's the follow up to Is
This Thing Cursed from twenty eighteen,which I think is the best Alkaline Tria
record since Crimson, Like, Ithought that record was really fucking strong.
They've had a line up change,you know, they've they've got a new

(15:35):
drummer now. But I put thissong on Digital Report Recording and I really
like it. I think it's it'sreally strong. It's maybe not as strong
as the best singles from the previousrecord, but it's hit in that same
spot of like, oh yeah AlkalineTrio when they're on it. Yeah,
No, I think this is reallygood. I mean it didn't like,
you know, blow me away ina way that I've never had this one,
But I'm like, oh yeah,cool Alkalan Trio just being really good

(15:56):
at what they do. Of courseI'm gonna I'm gonna be for that.
And yeah, I think this isgot a good start. And there's that
was nicely here Matt Gibby just kindof like sounding like I think he's been
a bit patched as well, sohim kind of sound pretty good on this
track, and and I think I'mlike, I'm excited. Yeah for me,
They've always been one of those bandswhich are kind of a major blind

(16:17):
spot. I'm not sure i've actuallylistened to an album in full. I
feel like you'd really like a fairview of them. Yeah, I've heard
this a lot for whatever reason,I just I haven't given it a go
and morning that I'll make notes ofit. Blood hair and eyeballs just as
a name for an album. That'sthat's good. And I was look at
the track listing opens with Hot forPreacher's Ye, that's brilliant. Video has

(16:40):
got some cool zombies in it.Yes, also true like for a lot
to like. To be honest,I was surprised by how laid back this
was. I kind of had theimpression there a bit more on it,
but I liked it. I wonderedif it was the Atom Willard inclusion because
it has a kind of against mekind of gate to it for a lot
of it. Pull of your facehere because another way we're playing every band

(17:02):
but against me. Yeah. Butyeah, I'm excited for this now.
I didn't care at all before,but this is good. Yeah, this
is a I think, a verystrong you know, current day alcal Antrio.
I think what you're saying not beinglaid back is they have these really
they're punk songs, but they havereally smooth melodies on them, and that's
always been one of their strengths.And yeah, I want to hear Hot

(17:25):
for Preacher yesterday. So bringing allof that on some big tour news in
sort of similar realms, Smashing Pumpkinsand Weezer are going to be co headlining
next year stadiums in the stadiums orarenas arenas that would be maybe a bit
ambitious apologies there arenas even in theUK and Ireland June next year. We
were maybe going to go, butit's the day my girlfriend is seeing Taylor

(17:47):
Swift and nothing's getting in the wayof that. But you know, that's
a pretty fucking huge bill. Andalso, you know, for our American
listeners, Green Day Evan actual,they are going to be taking the Smashing
Pumpkins out with them on a stadiumto all. That's I've got that detail
from along with Rancid and the LindaLinda's And that's a pretty you know,
if you're going to go see GreenDay in today's day and age, a
bit like that certainly sweetens the sweetensthe deal. Yeah, good week for

(18:11):
like fans of the nineties, isn'tit really? Yeah? Very much.
So hopefully Orphan's gonna get a GreenDay played an intimate show this week and
they pull out you know, theydo those things where you go, oh,
that's that's where I'd want to seeGreen day, you know, something
small, cool, setlist, radImperial Triumphant. Now we almost this is
like the fourth Imperio traffic cover we'vespoken about, and I kind of felt
like half. I was like,you know, we said enough about that.

(18:33):
And then they covered motor Breath byMetallica, and I went, oh,
no, I need to mention thisone, Elliott, this is this
is fucking bananas. I mean,what point is something not a cover?
You know what I mean? MotorBreath. It's gonna be one of the
songs in my life that I wouldknow the most. I would know it

(18:56):
like my own face. And I'mlistening to it, going, I don't
know that is I could hear,but they've melted it into a pile of
gelatin. I really like it.I think it's cool. I listen.
I listened to a minute of thisand was like, enough of that.

(19:17):
No, I think I think it'sreally good. I mean, it's weird
because I would have thought that,Like all the other covers have been fairly
like, if not obvious, youdo kind of get it, like doing
Radiohead doing progs. It's cool tohear him do like an all out heavy
metal tune. But yeah, youknow, and they're not really doing all
out heavy melting into some kind oflike tentacled monster. I'd like to see

(19:40):
this all collected at some point,because I don't think they're all as good
as each other, but I thinkthey're all pretty fascinating and it's funny just
then going like what songs should wedo? Let's just take the most minute
ingredient from it and then start afreshand have a whole new that I will
call it a cover. I don'tI don't know what the rules are in
Imperial Triumphant Land, but I meanyou say, like, we kind of
covered it now, but like,if they're going to keep doing things like

(20:02):
this, we have no choice.Yeah that they with these covers they've done
like oh, this week we're goingto release a cover by X band and
they leave you to go, oh, what song is it going to be?
And when they went with this weekwe're going to release some Metallica cover,
I went, okay, you knowone of the long ones around Justice
for All right, like something kindof complax and yeah, something with jazzy
elements. They could do that with. Never in a million years did my

(20:23):
brain go yeah, kill them all. That's rad to hear, and what
is certainly something to hear. Idon't know if you've read this full statement,
it's fucking oh yes. We Everynow and then you get blessed with
communication from none other than Man ofWar, and it's always something to take
hold. I don't think many peoplehave really reported on this, because you've
got to be in the man OWar hole to really take notes of this,

(20:45):
where I very much count myself asa as being. We've got a
massive man O War update this weekwhich starts with, of course Man of
Warriors, let it be known thatwe will unleash our brand new studio album
upon the world in early twenty twenty, so that's about probably about eighteen months
away. We will have a newMan of War album. Apparently we can

(21:08):
tell you that this album will crushthe enemies of metal into the dust from
whence they came and reunite Manor Warriorsfrom all over the world under the banner
of true metal. Beware are onslaughtwill not stop there. They've also essentially
announced that in twenty twenty five theyare going to be doing a tour through
Europe, not the UK. Ofcourse, we are starved over here for

(21:30):
Man of War content, but they'regoing to do a tour for Europe where
on alternate nights they are going tobe playing two of their albums in full,
Hail to England and Signed the Hammertoo, fucking amazing records. Not
playing England though, you know howto England Bela, Yeah, absolutely fuck
England. Even though they say ofEurope, I'm pretty sure it's like a
tour of Germany with like one aurdate thirteen dates in Germany. Yeah,

(21:52):
you're right, it says first showshave been confirmed, so presumably there will
be other places in Europe to come. Probably still not England. That's always
the great iony, but again they'renot playing two nights in each place.
You have to hope basically that yourcity gets the album that you prefer.
The bad News along with this,I would love to see particularly Hell to
England and Full. That's an amazingrecord. That's the most consistently great Man

(22:14):
o War record. But they've alsoannounced that I guess maybe slightly before twenty
twenty four, so before then newalbum coming out, they are going to
be re recording the album Sign ofthe Hammer. In the Sign they have
a twenty twenty four edition which Again, if you guys are not in the
know on current Man of War activities, think about what bands you would want

(22:37):
to hear re recording their albums andfile Man o War somewhere below in flames,
particularly the way Joey mixes their material. Now it's going to be Side
of the Hammer, all based,nothing else edition, So we've got a
new manu War coming. We willprobably sound like that anyway, but before
that you have to hear worst versionof their great records. Well, it

(23:03):
wasn't the Side of the Hammer thatoriginally mixed to be the loudest album in
the world. It's going to belouder now, but only the base not
necessary. So bad Man of Warstuff come in next year, Big Man
of Watch, Big Man of Waractivity coming the year after goodness gracious me.
And then I've just I've put thisin. I don't like to indulge

(23:26):
these people, but I've just putthis in because this is I think legitimately
unhinged headline I've ever read in thehistory of covering rock music, and that
includes everything that happened with fucking TimLambisis and all of this stains. Aaron
Lewis spells out Trump twenty four usingthirty two dead coyotes. Just just get
get a life, mate, youknow, yeah, sort out, you

(23:48):
know what I mean. It's hardbeing in stained, but come on,
the URL for this is the funniestbecause it just says Aaron Lewis Trump twenty
four dead coyotes fans just sturbed,which is like the too long, didn't
read version of it. If Trumpwins next year, I'm gonna call it.
This is a blood offering. That'sthe only way. Ritual sacrifice,

(24:12):
like a slip cabin in the woods, communing with the elder gods, like
sacrificing the appropriate number of coyotes.Yeah, I mean, all sorts of
reasons to say fuck this, butJesus Christ, Yeah, that's the news
this week. Patreon update, Thankyou as ever to anyone who is currently
supporting us over there. It ismassively appreciated. It's what keeps this podcast

(24:34):
a float and alive all these years. We hope that you have been enjoying
the contact we've been putting out lately, primarily, of course, the Alison
Chains special in the last month orso. Part two is still fairly fresh.
That soily went over the latter partof the Lansdalely years of course,
including all of their acoustic dalliances pastthe Sappy Piece, so you know,
Jarf Flies and the the Unhinged record. I guess in some ways it could

(24:56):
be Sorry, I've got Aaron Lewison the Brain Unplugged record, the self
titled album and everything through. They'realso Mad Season, Jerry Cantrell's first two
insanely large solo album, so that'sbrilliant. They're the third part of that
will be coming, you know,within the next few weeks. Next week
album Clubs is what we would normallydo following a reviews episode like this,

(25:19):
it's October, we kind of havewe have a week spare to do it.
Instead, we are going to bringyou the thing we do once a
year, the Halloween album Roulette,where we are going to I mean it's
basically it's album discussion and this hasmore albums in it, so you're kind
of lucking out really. Album clubwill of course return very soon after that,
but this week we are going tobe doing our newest selection. I

(25:42):
think we're really having to, Likeyou know, we've done it a few
years on the TRUP. Now we'regoing to be bringing some different stuff in,
maybe some unforeseen stuff to it,and we are going to bring all
in on some brilliant records on thedarker, creepier side of everything we cover.
So if you want to hear that, you can see patron dot com
slash That's not metal. And then, as said, it is October,

(26:04):
there have been some high profile horrormovies of late for good and bad reasons.
Fairly soon after that we'll be we'llbe giving you guys what we think
about that if you are one ofour the higher end to the ends horror
fans, So thank you very muchfor all of that. Reviews is what
we are here for for the restof this episode, and lead reviews this

(26:27):
time. Maybe another episode the obvious, big massive one would go first,
but I think it's appropriate. LastFriday, the Universe Blessed Us was essentially
TNM day because, like you know, Blaquinity two is obviously the biggest release
this month, but the kind ofbands that this podcast was founded on celebrate
in Two of the absolute most belovedbands in that modern field that you guys

(26:49):
all love we love them released albumson the same day, and so it'd
be remiss to not celebrate all ofthat. Accordingly, the first one comes
from Creeper, and it's an albumthat's called Sanguavore, And just from an
album being called Sanguavore, I knowit's for me right. Creeper are,

(27:10):
of course, almost like the originalT and M favorite band. They are
pretty much the best songwriters currently workingin rock music. They bring a show
and a universe every time that isa different thing that they go all out
with on every single album. Andthey are also maybe pretty well established at
this point, Like I know,they are the go to band where we

(27:30):
go any justice in a different timelinein this band are literally the biggest rock
band in the world, bar none. How the hell are these songs not
that popular? But over the course, you know, the early EP's unbelievable
debut album that sealed all that promisethan a dramatic transformation on the second album,
I guess we've seen where Creeper's kindof lot is. I guess really,
And you know now I don't knowexactly what else happens. The buzz

(27:53):
around this album has been massive forCreeper fans, as you would expect.
I don't know how much bigger eachsubsequent album is going to get them.
That's that's by the bye. Iguess the relevant part I want to say
is that Sex Death and the InfiniteVoid was the first massive transformation for Creeper,
like going from you know, thekind of the callous heart horror punk

(28:14):
era Creeper into a completely different vibe. The making of that album seemed to
be a huge story unto itself.I don't know if that's you know,
the case here, but you know, there was the podcast series and everything
that went along with that last record. This album, like Comparison just seems
to kind of pop up and theyall seem to be in happier spirits.
Sex Death and the Infinite Void.What I guess I'm saying is was the

(28:37):
revelation of what a malleable Creeper wouldbe, right, Like yeah, I
think it's quite said enough now afew years on, but like that is
one of the boldest rock albums ofrecent times. Like in my musical lifetime,
I have heard very little like it, you know, since the days
of my Chemical Romance taking enormous swingsalbum upon album. When Sanguavore was unveiled,
it was almost a given by comparisonthat, Yeah, of course,

(29:00):
Creeple weren't going to go for somethingdifferent again, and there was very little
shock or resistance for that idea.I guess it's like that had been gotten
out of the way, and we'rejust down for new era of Creeper,
new sound, new vibe, newlook. What's going on? Yeah,
I think it's that is that thetransformation that the era being a distinct thing
was just because there was such ajump between Eternity in your Arms and sex

(29:22):
Death that they almost kind of likegot the shock of the change out of
the way before, so that everyonewas kind of ready for it. And
so when they like say they theyhad that big dramatic killing off of the
will Gold from the last era atthe Roundhouse, it was very much beginning
of like like how ghosts do aboutthe new Papa. It was kind of
like, and we've now got anew will Gold on stage. So it

(29:44):
felt like the idea that an eraof Creeper is gonna be some totally different
is something rather than to be fearedor kind of concerned about what it's going
to be, it's just part ofthe celebration for fans now. Yeah,
And so this record is kind ofI guess the summation of what started back
when they cut will gold Head offon stage at the Roundhouse. I feel
like the difference between this and sexDeath and the efant Void is that this

(30:07):
move on Sanguavore is so much lesssurprising than that album. And I don't
mean that in a disparaging sense,and not just because, like I said,
the establishment of shapes of Creeper asa shape shifting force has happened now.
But what I mean is sex Deathand the Efanit Void was like the
album that I didn't know I wantedfrom Creeper, that you wanted them to
do a britpop album basically like thatkind of Brits in America mix of like

(30:30):
British rock music and indie, evenwith all that Americana which obviously that evolved
and came to further truition on theAmerican Noir EP. That's not what I
would have put down as like mynext musical move for Creeper Sanguavore, even
though there were things in the singlethat made my eyes like widening shock that
they've gone there. By contrast,you go, yeah, of course they've

(30:51):
done like a lost Boy Steinman Vampirealbum that is exactly the move that you
would have expected from them, right, Like Sex Death and the Ifanit Void
is the album I didn't know,I want it wanted and I loved it.
Sangwavore is exactly the album that weknew we wanted an awful lot of
the Creeper fan base who were intothe same shit, and so like,
yeah, of course everyone seems tolove it. It's less like a radical

(31:11):
detour, even though it's musically justas ambitious. It's more like fulfillment of
a promise from like several years ago. Like even the look going from that
sort of like new wavy a setit that they had on Sex Death to
leather jackets and covered in blood.It's like, yeah, that's kind of
just what we'd all the magic withCreeper anyway, Yeah, totally agree of
that, that whole wish of filmkind of like they've now just they finally

(31:32):
hit that, like okay, we'llgive you peak vampire fantasy. Yeah,
I don't know where they go fromthis, Like this is like, oh,
yeah, they've done the massively obviousthing. What do they do next?
You know, obviously that's a surpriseand a treasure that we're witting to
see. But this album does havea lot less surprise attached to it.
And you know, it's not thatoh, I never considered Creep would do

(31:52):
this the way the last album was, even obviously the vast majority of it
is a thing that we've not necessarilyheard them, you know, right before.
It's just so obviously they will begood at it, And so for
myself and for Sam I'm sure aswell, this is just like, oh
yeah, all's right with the world. We've got like a lovely vampire bed
to climb into. The prophecy hasbeen fulfilled. I want to quickly turn

(32:13):
to the unknown factor, I guessbefore we talk about it, because Elliott's
I'm still sussing out where you arewith Creeper, Like you seem to like
them, but occasionally a little bitmore spoiler sport about certain pieces of their
back catalog. So is Creeper doingwhat sanguevore is as natural a crowd pleaser
for you as it is for uswho are just like, yeah, I
like this, give it. Wellyeah, So for me, one of

(32:37):
the things that I kind of wantedfrom Creeper all along was that I wanted
them to be kind of more ofthe things that I liked about them and
less of the things I wasn't sosure about. So I guess that's true
of all bands. But like SexDeath and The Infant Void, for example,
I kind of like they were playingwith t Rex and Bowie and the
like you say, the UK Indiesside of things, but it wasn't really

(32:58):
I don't really like that things generally. I quite like t Rex. I'm
not that big on Bowie, likeit was it was one of those West
I love it when Creeper do itseemingly this is probably the same fucking meat
loaf, but yeah, go on, well this is so for me.
It's always been like I think,where they combine a number of things I
like, but I've always had kindof questions about how they go about doing
it. So like when it wassome more punky early stuff and it turns

(33:20):
it in your arms. The stuffI liked about I thought was great,
but when they would sort of slipinto Andrew Lloyd Webber territory, like on
I choose to live or I stilldon't really get on with misery for example,
Like that's worse than saying, youknow, like I choose to live
Okay, there's always been these caveats, and even when they're combining lots of

(33:42):
things I like, I've always hadthose caveats, but they've never None of
the bands that I've mentioned so far, as great as many of them are,
including things like Bowie and the Like, none of those bands have than
anything as good as bat Out ofHell right, which, for my money,
is one of the great rock albumsever fair and a contender for the

(34:02):
best to sell in the numbers thatit did. If you want to talk
about like Back in Black, theBlack album, never mind, Battle of
Hell could take them all, andfor me, for Creeper, they've always
hinted at that, and to twofoot plunge into the deep end this time
around, it's the best Creeper album. I'm I don't know if I agree,

(34:23):
but I am elated that at thevery least we could all just like
get on here, because yeah,big surprise, Creeper have done their big,
mega goth opera album and we loveit. Big shocker even saying so
that the revelations that Creeper offer whileworking within this zone that we all expect
them to do are still so rewarding. It's the album that we expect them

(34:44):
to get around to making at somepoint, but seeing it in action is
another thing entirely. And yeah,Creeper do meet Loaf stuff quite well,
they always have. They haven't donea nine minute, full bat out of
Hell moment to open an album thoughbefore. Yeah, it's always been like
you know, so the end bitof like down below or like those ditches
where he goes for me, likeit's been you know, sprinkling in two

(35:06):
punk songs. This one went.When the mo I saw, like I
say, the album's opening with anine minute song, I was like,
I haven't even heard it. Iknow what that's going to be, and
it better be just like the purestkind of Steinman worship, imaginable, go
full on like Steinman, meat life, bat of Hell, epic, wherever
you want to that the comparison youwant to make, And that is exactly
what I got them. And Ihit play on this record and I didn't

(35:30):
care about the rest of the albumfrom them, I was like, I
mean, this is this is everythingto me, Like what a song to
open your album with? I meanit opens with a piano hook that could
start a Cradler filth song, andthen it goes hold my beer. We're
going to get more ridiculous than that. Like it's I think it's the best
example of a song I've heard thisyear that actually fulfills that cheesy cliche of
like, oh, it doesn't feelnine minutes long, because like it doesn't

(35:52):
the transition through it. Will doesn'tstart singing until nearly the two minute mark,
and every time he does, I'mlike, shit, where do those
two minutes ago? Like none ofthat's way and everything in that song arrives
exactly when it means to, andthe ramp up on it, the way
the verses escalate the other the rollingTom's coming in, bringing it all up
and app and like you know,bringing the momentum in. It feels like

(36:14):
classic songwriting. And the chorus isoutrageous, legitimately full on. How did
meat Loaf not sing that on oneof the most famous songs ever in nineteen
eighty or something. Again, Idon't even really like meat Loaf very much.
I'm not that guy who listens toyou don't like misery shup. I
don't really listen to that out ofhell and I hear this and I'm again

(36:37):
and it's just I've not has't gonnadoub where I've just not sung to myself
my I'm again and girl could endyour world in one look, like it's
so sick. It's that it's justlike, yeah that like it's been a
good year for like girls just throwingthe world with the goths are up for
their horny girl destruction world stuff.But yeah, that chorus like it's that

(36:57):
precourse, but every time it's allramps up there that the second verse on
this song might be my favorite thingCroup I've ever done, just for Will
giving us the most ludicrous line Ithink that's ever going to come out of
his mouth, which is I'm Jesusin the strip club giving head. I
think there are even better ones laterin the album, potentially there are.
There are so many amazing lines becauseslum but I just I cackled them.

(37:19):
I heard that, and I howdo you just feel like will behave when
you're singing that, because like Jesusa strip club giving head, Like,
come on, it's fucking like thissong. I can't stop with this song.
Every little part of it is justperfect to me. The reason why
I guess when you said you didn'tlike Battle Hell is because it's almost scandalous

(37:40):
how much this song takes that songsike, it's never quite clicked for me personally,
but yeah, ridiculous. But likethe extended intro, like the constant
refrain of the melodies coming in andall these different faster and slower like the
drama, the skyscraping melodies. Iteven kind of mimics that the motorbike.

(38:05):
We having things towards the end ina different way. It's like the lawsuits
are millimeters away. Lads. Well, they attributed the album to Steinmann.
I think that's that they're getting awaywith it, right, sneaky, sneaky.
But the thing is, I don'tmind because I love being in this
world so much, like it's it'ssuch a great song. I will even
forgive the fade out because I don'twant that little melodic hook to disappear at

(38:29):
any point. Like I got,you say, nine minutes. I get
as someone who likes Creeper, butI have my reservations. If you don'tone
like a nine minute creeper song,I would have kind of I could have
winced at it. I could havebeen I'm sure, But when it's just
like bat out of Hell. Fourmore more make it twelve minutes. I
mean, for me, I feellike Creeper a few years ago maybe could

(38:52):
have done like the first stretch ofthat song, the actual most impressive part
of it for me, and Ithink one of the things that really marks
it out was being you know,Sanguavore is the switch shot because that part
with the hell hel qui a vocals, Yeah, it could be steimand just
as much as it could be somefucking mental Disney song from The Lion King
or something like, it's a mind. When it reached that point, and

(39:15):
despite being the song with all ofthese different sections, it feels cohesive.
It doesn't feel like just a jumbleof disconnected songs, despite how different in
mood the back end is. Fromthe beginning, it's just like an insane
payoff on the already mega first part. It's, you know, two world
class hooks in one stretch, youknow, Dominion Mother Russia style. It's
so comfortable to hear them doing thisstuff because it's so clearly the kind of

(39:39):
songwriting that the members of Creeper personallyyearned for. Like this time even more
than any other time. I thinkit's like they've written an album to do
a kind of thing that they personallywant to hear in today's landscape that they
aren't hearing. You know, Likethe whole album works because it's so clearly
a labor of love and it's notyou know, a major processing of demons

(40:02):
or anything this time, but it'sjust we want an album like this to
exist, so we're gonna make itexist. It's just like, you know,
it's yearning for a kind of bombasticrock music that isn't the fashion anymore
majorly like the obvious only of theband who have made it their trade and
got particularly successful as Ghost, whichis why people as compare it. But
you know, it's that it's wantingto have all of the excess. It's

(40:23):
the kind of thing you know.When we spoke so heavily about Impia last
year and it was my album ofthe year, it was like often throughout
rock's history, the things that capturepeople and define a point in time are
the things that are bold and arelike unashamedly ludicrous and over the top.
And that's something that's been so shiedaway from in recent decades because people think

(40:43):
it's silly or they can't commit toit without sniggering or whatever because they're cowards.
Even pop music has moved away fromlike Katie Perry shooting milkshakes out of
her tits or whatever, towards like, you know, intimate bedroom pop stuff
and Sangragore. Even more than anythingelse Creeper have ever done, is them
looking that in the eye and notflinching and putting, you know, through
force of will, all of thatinto actuality, even when it is wildly

(41:07):
out of step with what the zeitgeistis. And I find hearing that not
just rewarding but relieving, you know, like, oh, finally some good
fucking food. Well that's why Ithink this is the coolest album I've heard
this year in a way, becauselike, you look at what is currently
popular on to our music, andyou know that all the bands like models
and it's all very street style andit's just shit like bad omens and the
stuff I rag on all the timethat's so synthetic looking. This feels like

(41:30):
a band who are just again totallyout of step with that. They are
harkening. They are leather jackets andstratting their stuff and it's camp and theater,
and that to me is so muchmore like I say, so much
more rewarding because it is bold andinvigorating and exciting, and there's so much
passion to it. It doesn't feellike none of this feels like it's pleasing

(41:50):
an algorithm or like the bands youare going to be like that could be
written by an ai. It's sodesigned to just tick boxes for what is
popular right now. None of thathere. This is so I say,
such a labor of love, andthat just comes through in the songs and
makes them sound even more brilliant thanthey actually are. Like, but it's
also like that is the thing thateven like Back of Her we talk about
like one of the big alms ofthe seventies. At the time, that

(42:15):
was a mental Yeah, it wasseen to be like it was going to
be a disaster. They shops withlike forty record labels or something, and
it involved just Steinman and Meatloaf slammingon the desk like trying to holm out
the songs and stuff like that wholething and you just pitching it. Now,
like seven songs, most of whichare over eight minutes, and there's
like heavy metal, there's doo wop, there's pop, there's jazz, there's

(42:37):
you know, it's just like themost insane thing. But like you say,
it just through sheer like escapism andhow likable those songs and that style
is, it gets through and onone hap, like you say, it's
nice to listen to Creeper and notthink there's anything cynical about it whatsoever.
But listening to a song of this, I just think it'd be such a

(42:57):
shame if it didn't do thing thatthe other bands are going for and taking
the kind of slipstream are the easyway to it. Yeah, and sonically
this album, I mean, Idon't know exactly, I'm not I'm not
privy to anything. To me,it sounds like slightly less expensive than sex
ethn Ifinite Void was like that,like kind of that big American sound that
they had there, Like all ofthe orchestration and things that incorporate on those

(43:21):
songs sounded so lavish, like areally big step up from you know,
Southampton punk. This they've you know, they've done it at home, and
maybe the sonic fidelity not quite atthat level, but all of the bells
and whistles they feasibly can attach toit to make it larger than life are
there, which is a different kindof endearing, like the xylophone lines alone,
adding all of those extra hook throughlike Chapel Gates or Further and Forever

(43:42):
just a joy to hear. Ilike that you can imagine as a through
line on this they've gone Okay,every single song, despite how different they
all are, needs to somehow evokeCry Little Sister from the Lost Boy soundtrack,
Like it's that exact kind of hushedbut uber dramatic, quasi religious,
you know, escapist absurdity. Theunderdiscussed thing I think with this is as

(44:04):
well as it being their kind ofpreposterous goth opera album, it's Creeper doing
a heavy metal album. This wasthis was the thing that caught me off
guard when I hit play on itwas I I kind of expected, you
know, the goth opera, andthen like when Sacred Blasphemy like like I
mean, quigt Heaven had some bigrifts in it, but when Sacred Blasphemy
hits up and go, that's juststraight up maiden riffs, isn't it.
Like yeah, that's a good point, I think to me. Again,

(44:24):
it was particularly like on the singleswhen they jumped out like Creeper used to
be a punk band, and thereare parts on this that are recognizable as
that, but their riffs and theirrhythm section would be you know, punk.
Yeah here. I mean it makessense because Ian Miles probably thinks about
Metallica every day of his life,right, and I think that's that's what
helps part of what help propel songslike Cry to Heaven to such delirious heights,

(44:45):
because like, you know, thathas been out for a while now,
but hearing that for the first timeas a single was a case of
like my face getting just more andmore like open eyed and shocked and giddy.
Every single new element that comes in, right, like the bass kind
of synth at the start, theguitar riff, the absurd fucking like soul
choir backing vocals that got co optedinto goth rock songs in the nineteen eighties

(45:07):
somehow on things like Floodland, andthen that fucking solo comes in, and
then that key change at the end. It's so hilarious in the production,
right, Like there's there's a stabin the chorus on Cry to Heaven where
there's this keyboard liked durnt slam.It's like one of the it's like a
ridiculous dated sample you'd hear on likean eighties hip hop song, and I

(45:27):
wouldn't trade it for the world.On this it's amazing, like the theremine
that transitions that solo into the bridgeand then in the outro like it's all
of the stops pulled out and it'sit's the polar opposite of a wallflower right
like it's maybe the most absurdly loudand proud rock song released in years.
It is so again like that thatcoming like right off the back off further

(45:49):
than forever. It's just like,what again, what a way to open
your record? It's the most unashamedbombastic way possible. You go from epic
and you go, oh yeah,his fucking cry to Heaven with its with
it's like I say, Goth sympsand feramine solos, big crunchy riffs like
that, Oh that ridiculously dramatic chorus. It's so cool though, and again,
like Will on that song, hejust nails the kind of like horny

(46:15):
like goth vampire like this album isfucking horny. It's so funny at points,
but again it's delivered in such aconvincing way from Will that again totally
unashamed of how like sex driven thisalbum is. Yeah, and then Tino
Sacrifice is where I go like,Creeper aren't a metal band normally, but
they've written one of the catches heavymetal riffs of the year, Like it's

(46:37):
such a head nod of such anearworm and and I know that again,
Ghost is a natural comparison. Ithink it's the more that the shared root
influence of both of things is stufflike Ozzy Osbourne and Bark at the Moon
and the Ultimate Sin lives strong inthis way more than they do any current
Aussie material. And it's got thatsimple, spooky keyboard sound when every bad
that's making it sound like squaky,scary skeletons as fuck. It's it's a

(47:02):
masterclass in catchy, strutting heavy metalriffing and they've only just started doing that
just for a laugh. It's onetype cry to Heaven and Teenage Sacrifice where
they were the singles. That waswhat my real expectation started to turn because,
like you say that, that sortof early to mid eighties Aussie stuff,

(47:22):
which I just like. Bark atthe Moon is one of my favorite
Aussie records, like beyond just thetitle track and then cross breeding those things
were like lucifuge, Like yeah,like in Cry to Heaven when will Go
was full Danzig before the solo,like Queen of the Damn Lie. It's
just like it's so like on thenose, such a knowing move, but

(47:42):
yeah, it works so well.The thing that gets me about these songs
in particular is that it's so obviouswhere they're drawing from, but it never
feels like it's just retro. Imean like it's like it's again. It's
that thing that Ghost have done wherethey managed to sound like the eighties without
sounding like something your dad like.It's not like a pastige of it.
It's like just loving it and kindof recreating it in a modern, authentic

(48:05):
way. Yeah, and I lovethat I can add Summer Lands to the
list of bands I want Creeper tobring out on tour, along with like
Unto Others and Great Pleasures and allthat stuff. There's there's none of this
album that feels like, oh thatyou know, that doesn't really scratch the
Creeper itch for me, even thoughit is obviously quite a big transformation.
They do factor in you the familiarmoments, but tweets to fit into this
world. Sacred Blasphemy carries itself withthe energy of like an old creeper punk

(48:29):
song, but the guitar tone andthe grandiosity is like, you know,
there's big, hyperactive heavy metal theaterpiece. The harmony solo on that sounds
like hell a Ween could have writtenIt's a Keeper of the Seven Keys and
Chapel Gates is so fucking like voicewobbling rockabilly in its root form, it
could be a Salem song, right, like I am so about that with
that's is a bit more, butlike it's it's the most like ott preposterous,

(48:54):
every level of grandeur and magic piledon top of it that a song
like that that goes in and outinside two and a half minutes could be
I love that song because it's justit's it's you know, it's the one
like real just like classic punk creepermoment again you say them, it's got
that kind of like surfing when it'skind there, Yeah, that kind of
comes to me, you know,the Beast Boys being like an influence on

(49:15):
the Miss's being an influence on Creeperkind of like that kind of lineage,
isn't it's all part of that.But that song is so much fun.
It's just such a like just thisjoyous lift coming right out of the album
and it's just like God. Butthey could still just write the best punk
songs in their sleep if they wantedto, And they're just kind of tuck
one in on this album to remindyou of that whilst they're going all over
the place and all these other songs. Yeah, and the funny lines.

(49:36):
I'm telling you she's getting laid butnot to rest. That's where I go
behave, Like, I don't knowhow you could think that's not fun,
you know, Like I think Ilove it. Creeper have never sounded more
fun to be in than on thisalbum, Like you'd want to be in
part of it. They sound likethey're having an absolute ball. I really
love Lover's Letters straight as well.That's the moment again live where I was

(49:59):
like, oh, they are havingthe time their lives of the band,
Like just when that rif that's struton that rift coming in and that's that's
the Danzig like the outlaw metal rift. The final like thirty seconds away when
they lean into it is insane.But that mega dramatic like knockout of a
chorus. When I see you laidand slaid across the bed is so good.

(50:21):
I am fist clenching every time.And it has so much conviction in
that and so much genuine kutzpa indelivering that. It took me a moment
to notice how daft it is,because the whip cracks, the whips all
over it mission it's brazen, andthen it also has those big, fat

(50:45):
like synth bassed slabs in the versesand like they're silly right, And I
mean that wholly positively. They arejoyously silly. They're extravagant, they're escapist,
and they make me smile so much. It's such a bold, loud,
fun song like Criter Heaven is,and it works because of the full
on poise and you know determination thatthey put into the performance to make it

(51:07):
work, to make you believe init. I just for me, I
love how little wink wink nudge nudgethere is on this record because I think,
like the thing is with songs likethese, especially now, listening to
them is a bit like a gameof chicken, where like you're waiting for
you or the band proof to makeit like like as a joke, can
you Live without your Life? InTeenage Sacrifice is like a spinal tap lyric,

(51:30):
And I'm not thinking that when I'msinging it, because I'm in it
and Will is super saying in it. The one that got me was in
the Ballad of Spook and Mercy,which as a song is like late eighties
made and crossed with the Coffin Shakersor something. And when it gets near
the end and Will goes like andI'll hold your hand, and there's a
pause, I thought, is hegonna say? In Hell? By that

(51:52):
point in the record, It's like, it's to me, it's funny that
this is a concept or a rockopera, because it's like, mate,
we're not getting anywhere. Every songis about sex and hell and vampires and
sex with vampires in hell. Ihave no idea where I'm meant to be
by the end of the record.But again, you're just waiting for them
to blink, and they never do, and it makes it so much more
exciting to listen to. Yeah,the way they've maintained like Ian Miles's ridiculous,

(52:16):
just rivers of champagne guitar hero momentswhich properly took over on Sex Define,
Infant Avoid right, like everyone remembersthe Thorns I love solo, but
they fit them onto this kind ofheavy metal opera feeling. The one on
Ballads of Spooker Mercy is like you'vegot a taste of oryan inside. Totally
different content of that track is Iam. I'm always interested to see how

(52:37):
those like more you know, unpunkor in this case, unheavy metal songs
from Creeper are going to shape up, because like, honestly, my favorite
songs on Sex, Death and InfantAvoid, a lot of them were those
ones like Poisoned Heart four years AgoParadise. They're fucking outstanding, very different
in vibe, but filling that role. You've got the ballad of spook of
Mercy. To me, that givesoff like the like murder ballads nit Cave.

(52:57):
Well, No, that's my pointof reference for it as well,
which again will fit so naturally intoin telling that story. He's got the
right amount of like drama in hisvoice to make it compelling, but again
not sound that never sounds silly,which again that he treads that line so
perfectly. Yeah, like the Curseof mill Haven lives strong in that track
in those verses, but creeper insteadof giving off like the genuinely you know,

(53:20):
uncomfortable murderous edge that that has turnedit into this you know, sweeping
hand in hand dark ballad because it'snot a natural murderer song. It's a
romantic vampire song about creatures of thenight, and it captures that beautifully.
I think the missed opportunity, Iguess, And if you are going to
poll people on what they think ofthis album, I think it probably the
one consistent raised point. No Hannahsongs in a pronounced lead role, especially

(53:42):
after it goes over Cavalry, wereso great, but I would have liked
to hear the two of them aretruly going at it on some of these
more extravagant songs. What they havedelivered in Space I think should not be
overlooked and slightly makes up for it. The choirs and the backing vocals,
which often Hannah's ai be part of, are more exuberant than ever on this
album, to the point that theycould be borderline Christmas Carols at some point,
but the one where it's like forus all, for us all,

(54:04):
it's like it's so they're excessive andthey are like they are popping off in
every corner where there could be likea huge choir backing vocal. And I
do love how that is used asa counterpoint to Will. Yeah, I
think like, no, hang theresome time, but I do think people
kind of sing there's not a handon the record. I'm like, she's
she's qunching so much more. Butshe's always there, She's she's She's a

(54:25):
much bigger presence musically on this album, I think with all the simps and
acquires and all that, and eventhen, like I said, like she
wanted to get a long song,but like one of my again I've said,
but one the Barside have done this. Something is the closing bit of
Black Heaven where they're doing the vocaltrade off. I think, like that
bit's so good. I mean,I love that song because that's just Creeper
doing depeche mode. Yeah, awesome. I'm getting to that, Telly Telly,

(54:47):
because like Will on Creeper's most horrortastic album, right, he has
put a bite into his performance thatI think is like the magic extra ingredient
that really completes these songs. It'sbare on Spook and Mercy, but you
know, we all know he's agreat singer in his more usual range,
and he can sell the shit outof a big emotional chorus when he goes

(55:08):
dark. On this album, heturns on the snarl and the grimace before
that last chorus of Spook and Mercy, the one where they fucking nail.
That is Black Heaven, which isone of the most four me songs Creeper
have ever done. Like I keepgoing back to play it. It's their
full on, like undead dark wavetrack, like full dark western goth pulsating.

(55:30):
The instrumental sounds beautiful. The commandon that low range in the original
I mean in the chorus, thecommand, you know, the die for
me. It's fucking perfect. Andit's the way he leans into it because
that back half you're talking about,if I was going to isolate my favorite
bit of this album, it's thesecond part of Black Heaven. It's not
just like, oh, a lowbaritone voice right that we can all do.

(55:50):
It's injecting a spike and a barkinto that like basy register, which
is hard to do right. Youknow, the black Caven, Black Caven,
And when you compliment that and completeit with the cry little sister bit
basically from Hannah sounds fucking unbelievable.And again it's another song where you have
this amazing revelatory second half from thefirst setup. And that's how a trick

(56:15):
that creeperly be doing for ages right, Like again the ending of ROM three
or nine on a turn to yourArms, how it goes from like punk
track to massive escalation in vocal harmonyon that I've been a Man Now a
Ghost ends up as a country song. Basically it's being translated through these other
filters of influence here and you're gettingthis This song is just outrageous. It's

(56:37):
like it's it's like your rhythmics crosswith Paradise Lost. It's like on paper
one second in it, Yeah,yeah, this sounds like almost this you'd
think this being describes you. Itcould be then flying too close to the
Sun, if you know what Imean, like the whole eighties thing sun
bands when they just step over thatline, it can really get sketchy,

(56:59):
like look like that Muse record,whereas all Neon just fucking hell, please
do not do that Like this.It could be that, But again it's
that conviction and the skill and thegreat song at the heart of it,
like it's close to laughable, butit dances on the ice and it's like
it's so for me, it's acontender for the best song on the record.

(57:21):
There's a few that kind of millaround that sport you just think,
fucking I wish rock clubs was stilla thing, because these songs are getting
written and then they're not going toend up in one and it's not fair.
And I don't know exactly where Iwould put this in relation to the
other Creeper albums. I'd find itvery difficult to separate this and sex ethn
if an avoid, But I meanit's obviously it's another knockout that's asars is
important. I think of the bigpiano ballad tracks that close each one,

(57:45):
this might be the best. Ithink. I think this is the best.
I think it's again the Willgood vocalperformance on that chorus when he hits,
and the magic he creates on thatcourse with like the emotions just pouring
out of him. Because all myfriends, obviously the most was very was
very subdued and yeah, vulnerable asintended, and it's great for it.

(58:07):
But this is this is him goinglike okay, We've done that. Now
we're going to go the most kindof just like rip the show open,
just like epic like song like rockstar finale moment, and we're just living
it in all the emotion. Ithink it's incredible. Yeah, Like it
starts off really simple and intimate,like those last two did, and that's

(58:27):
all well and good, right,you know, lovely nice they do that
well, but holy shit, theother level that smashes through on that dearth
fools us wood old food. Alsothe Lorraine Warren reference in it. Yeah,
it's so stupid, shouted the conjurinheads. But that is like in
Will's performance alone, at first,that power comes through and it's one of

(58:50):
his all time best right again,even adding in the grit and the harshness,
like we said in the big moments, the final chorus, it's just
a mic drop surely, like myeye's light up. It's it's magnificent on
like an instinctive level. Right,And who is writing songs like that today?
Who is giving it that level ofwelly, it's just it's a guaranteed
win. If you can write asong like that and send it stratospheric like

(59:15):
that, people just have to gowith it against the law not to,
but no, no one does it, And here it is. I mean,
for me, as someone who's hada more hostile reaction to creepers,
more subdued ballady songs, this isjust like it's so fucking good. Like
again. As soon as Further ThanForever came in and the album's gone,

(59:35):
I said, wow, this isreally bad. Hell. I thought,
oh, if they closing it forcrying out loud, that would be nice,
and they don't quite do that,but there's that kind of level of
when it's just Will and the piano, it's that level of I don't want
to say simple, because it's stillso much ear candy, but it's kind
of the right level of stripped backwhere the drama isn't lessened, but it's

(01:00:00):
a more intimate moment than you've hadin the thirty five minutes before. Yeah,
And I think that that's the vibewith this album, right, it's
no one does this anymore? Wemiss it? What if we did it?
And we did it fucking well.It's their longest album by a decent
amount, even though it's less trapsthan the previous one, and it goes
by in a flash I just knowthat the next time I see Creeper,

(01:00:21):
I am going to be all out, full on, belting top of my
lungs Teenage Sacrifice or shit? Whatwas it? No way, like the
same way I have been doing theirother songs for years now, So that's
the success. I mean, Iwant to see them plays the whole thing,
to be honest. I mean,like I say, I saw them
two days after the album came out, and they played like they played so
they played Crowd to Heaven, SacredBlash for Me, Lovers Led Astray,

(01:00:43):
Tiney, Sacrifice, Chapel Gates,and Black Heaven and every song everyone was
singing every word like the crowd would. So already in on all of those
songs. Two days after the albumcame out, they've already landed with the
audience again. Usually I know,like intimate release shows the most dard Creeper
fans, but the songs already feellike perfect parts of the Settlers that everyone
is knowing and singing. So givethat even more time for these songs to

(01:01:06):
you know, when they're way inand I think they're gonna just again,
Like what songs do you cut froma Creeper set? Now, because they've
just got three albums where you wantto hear every song of them basically like
yeahps like do a special Sanguavore exhibitionat the London Palladium or something like.
They probably got some idea at somepoint, but you know, let's go
the other album that made last week, essentially T and M Christmas. This

(01:01:29):
is probably one that we would billafter the massive return of Tom the Long
Blue two, to be honest,but if we have the combined one two
offering with Creeper and once again,you guys know the drill on how loved
and respected the Mensingers are within Tand M circles. The album is called
some of It was true. It'sthe longest we've had to wait for a
Mensinger's album. Hello ex I wasfour years ago if you can believe it,

(01:01:50):
which itself was the follow up tothe most acclaimed album of the Mensinger's
career, After Party, which is, without exaggeration, one of the most
seminal albums of the T and Mera. Sam, I'm gonna let you
do the honors and it saves mesome words. How would you describe the
post after the Party years of theMensingers and where they are at as a
band because I know an album likethis is it's an important moment for you
that won't take away from you.Yeah, I mean, I guess after

(01:02:13):
the party was the moment where Imean, for me, that was one
the moment I fell in love withthe Mensingers. And I think it was
that was the rapid ascent after asolid kind of like few years building themselves
up in like the punk and emoscene, that they suddenly became a lot
of people's favorite band. And Ithink that kind of put the pressure on
Hello Eggs as a follow up thatit was quite difficult to follow. But
it do kind of see them,you know, become a really well established

(01:02:36):
they can play big size venues andeveryone's just going to go have an amazing
time. But it was it waslike I think like there was just there
was this level of expectation following afterthe party that meant there were more rise
I'd ever been on them for anew album, and again I staid about
Hello Exam but it wasn't you know, the classic, Oh this is the
follow up to a ten out often everyone wants but it's still you know,

(01:02:59):
just been enjoying successes and kind oflike every time they rock up now
they just beloved wherever they go becauseof half the party, and then it's
nice to them to be in thatposition, isn't it. Really? Yeah,
I think he Hello Exile is excellent, to be honest, like it's
it's not half the Party or fromthe Impossible Path of that matter, but
I would probably include it as partof their like peak run of albums during
the twenty tens. I think fromon the Impossible Parsson was, they've basically

(01:03:22):
every album has been minimum nine outof ten. For me personally, yeah,
I mean, if you were goingto put four albums in a row,
like there's an awful lot of brilliantsongs on those, you'd have those
four albums from you know through toHello. It's I mean, I academically
I recognized some of the production choices. I never actually had much of a
personal problem with it. And youmay remember that when they toured the UK

(01:03:43):
last year, I was a bitdisappointed to not actually hear more of the
great songs off it that I wantedto see over some that I'd heard an
awful lot pre Pandemic. I thinkwhere that album was generally sort of recognized
as you know, like Alf theparty was very overtly and self consciously a
sort of stamp on an ear oflife for the Mensingers. Like that's the
whole point of the title, Hellow Exile seemed to be the mensing are

(01:04:04):
sort of further mellowing out half thatpoint and entering like a bit less of
a fiery era. Some of itwas true from my point of view.
It kind of confirms that being likethe new norm for the Mensingers, like
this is the Mensinger's album that feelsa little bit distant from the days of
twenty twelve through seventeen. It's albumseven makes it still a very good listen

(01:04:25):
for me, But Sam with aslittle bias as possible, you know what
I mean, I do know whatyou mean, because I do agree this
is a slower Mensingers record for sure. It is a lot more chilled,
a lot more kind of just likewe know in our mid mid thirties now
we're gonna and not like the kindof overly like it's all bursting energy punks
of those first couple of records.But I mean, this is an album

(01:04:47):
that's really difficult for me to kindof form any much of the way of
criticism or any strutch thoughts of it, because I was just in love from
the first play on this. Ican't like hide my bias when it comes
to the Mensingers in the slightest likeI'll get out of the way stray.
I like, I'm not going tobe like much in the way of like,
oh, you know, this partwas a bit good. And there

(01:05:09):
are the other things that I againI can recognize that people might not like
or choice that I think are betterthan the last one. But this is
like another just classic from the Menzingers. For me, that's fine. We'll
do it for you Elliott, howabout you? I don't know. The
thing is Mensingers are abound. I'vealways had a slightly confused relationship with maybe

(01:05:29):
because on the Impossible Pass is excellent, after the party, the best one
amazing, Hello Exile, a coupleof really great songs. Wasn't convinced by
the whole thing, And on paper, I don't mind them kind of taking
you know, the foot off thegas a little bit. I think it
suits them. Like there's songs init I think really work. Even some
of the more peppy ones I thinkare nice in that more laid back register.

(01:05:51):
But I think what we might havehere is the diceiest Menzinger's record so
far, because I think when itworks, there are moments on it as
good as pretty much anything else they'vedone. But there's also more on here
that I have less to say about. I yeah, not quite so harsh

(01:06:13):
terms. I essentially agree with you. I think it's it's absolutely comfortably the
weakest Mensingers album since they became likea really great band, right, you
know, sort of beginning of thetwenty tens, that reynot would take this
over Rented World and probably Hello Exile. I think this is probably my third
favorite, like very much no forme, but that's fine. I think
the Mensingers and you know, GregBarnett material we've had recently as well.

(01:06:34):
We've been getting a fair bit inthe last couple of years in the current
decade wait for an album. It'dbeen a little while since like a song
had absolutely fucking knocked my socks off. You know, when Anna dropped from
Hello Exile or America Freaking Me Out. You saw that insane like slathering response
from people where you just knew thatthose were going to be classic songs.
Some of the year's best. Wehaven't seen that reaction, you know,

(01:06:56):
since I don't think they feel morelike when gas anthem songs come out and
the gas like anthem fans go like, oh this is good. I like
this, but it doesn't need tocrackle with a gym like crossover excitement.
That's how these Mensinger singles were treated. To me. That does not mean,
you know, bad or disappointing.I think there is no place in
this world for me, which wasvery much that as a single sounds really
great when it arrives on the album, Like Greg sounds brilliant there, the

(01:07:20):
verses and the way he lifts thatlike you know anywhere earls like just so
much character in his voice. It'sa bit of a slower, steadier single
than we used to maybe, butit's melodically super strong. It still feels
full of full of passion. I'msure it's different for you, Sam.
I didn't pay attention to anybody singlespast that. I just wait for the
album. I'm really glad they didthat because my first time putting this album

(01:07:42):
on with those sort of limited expectationsof the mind, and I figured I
would like this album because I likethe Mensingers, but maybe not the classic
I got that classic sensation of likeMensinger's elation when Hope is Dangerous with Things
starts off yes, which is sofucking good. Is that song? To
me is just like again just topten Mensingers, like every little thing about

(01:08:04):
it, from that that I'm afraidI'll have someone who's not with someone else,
that opening bit, that chorus,like it's so simple, it's two
lines like but and that's so manyof the choruses on this record. Is
like I love the men that theycan just take like such a simple little
refrain or aline and just make ita timeless chorus. And that is one
of the best ones on this albumfor sure. Yeah, I Hope is

(01:08:24):
a Dangerous Little Thing is for methe best song on the record. It's
a stand up by a mile andone of maybe one of the best Mensinger
songs full stop. It was oneof those when that I wasn't that keen
on them There's no Place for Me? Is that was called It's no place
for Me Anymore? Yeah, Yes, I wasn't all that keen on that
one. When that came up withHope is a Dangerous Little Thing came out

(01:08:45):
that was like, oh, Okay, this record might be fucking brilliant because
that song, like you say,the chorus, I have a kind of
natural aversion to choruses where it's justthe same thing over and over again unless
you're venom, and in this case, like is so perfectly simple and great
that I want it twice like forme. And again, it's not quite

(01:09:05):
as foot on the floor as eventhe stuff on after the Party was,
but I kind of think I thinkit sounds good. I think it sounds
good in that kind of more uptempo Springsteen like where those where those ven
diagrams cross over. I think it'sreally smart and just excellent songwriting. Yeah,
I want to see the Mensingers liveagain just to see this song,

(01:09:28):
you know. And it does doesthe thing that you want a mens of
song to do, which just liftyour spirits the second it hits. Even
though the lyrics are a bit pessimistic, it's kind of delivered with, you
know, sort of self deprecating.I mean, I've got my notes that
I want to see him live againsoon, just so I can sing with
mates that sometimes want to blot mylife and become someone else. Bit at
the end, like that bridge onthis song that is like the bell.
I'm like, I'm desperate to seethat live already because it's fucking excellent.

(01:09:50):
It's it's you know, the songthat you can imagine just bouncing around,
singing along in the pit, spillingyour pints all over Mark Anderson. It's
it's an absolute joy. And youknow, if Mensing is well my favorite
band, that'd probably been my songof the year. Right. It's just
you know, telling lies or something, just great vibes and it geems me
up so much. For the restof the album, I think the open
and run on this is really strong. Actually, like the first five songs
or so brilliant love the Mensingers.These songs are wicked. I think this

(01:10:13):
first bunch. Yeah, I thinkthe Tom tracks in the earlier part of
the record are are some of hisbest one in a good while, Like
I mean the Tom tracks on HelloeLEGS I might have been some of the
weaker ones, but like Nobody Staysis kind of a bit more of like
an inspective like Emo E number,but I think is great. I just
find that chorus so invigorating, LikeTom ges this great thing of like there's
a thing. On Mensinger's albums,Greg normally starts them and then a couple

(01:10:36):
of tracks like You'll get your firstTom song and it's like it kind of
hits your ears in a new wayand it just sort of lifts you up.
And he has this really clean wayof singing my comparison where he goes
from like note to note as opposedto Greg's more Greg's more kind of raggedy
approach, and that's just like nobodystay. It just kind of sounds and
feels brilliant that way he does.Yeah, No, really nice melogical songs.

(01:10:56):
I think Try is like you knowthe Woman where they get like probably
a like raucous and punk on it. And I think that song is really
fun again, like great kind oflike lead guitar parts, big shouty chorus,
just loads of fun. Like thosetwo songs, particular, the first
half are like cool. I'm gladto hear Tom gets some like really great
material on this title track. IsGreg being really cool like the smokes cigarettes

(01:11:17):
sunk? Yeah, I'm like,yeah, cool Greg, that is you
know that is to me? That'sthat's Greg Bingo is what that one is.
There's so many like like there wasanother let. I was like,
oh, there there's phillypunk Bingo,Like, yeah, I think that song
is great, right, that thatkind of rambling quality he has in his
delivery, like it's you struggle tofind an example that's more exaggerated than that

(01:11:38):
title track, and it's it's unmistakableto him, right, like for all
the Springsteen or Brian fallonisms or whateverlike that is very dysyncratic to him,
and it is Greg Bingo. Yeah, he's smoking cigarettes, he's driving his
car, but it well just neverquite where it seems rose glasses on everything,
like yeah, but it works becauseof the chorus and the sentiment,
right, which is really beautiful andwell done. I think generally they've maybe

(01:12:00):
been supplanted a bit in people's mindsas like the top dog in this scene
creatively at the moment by Spanish lovesongs. I still find their their songwriting
voice much more natural to my ears. So I just absolutely go with this,
Sam, I guess you are sayingthat direction of the album as a
whole, Like I think this it'sthe Mensingers doing what they do really well
still just with somewhat less urgency,right, Yeah, I think I think

(01:12:23):
that is like that is the sameif you're if you are there for the
more like punk stuff and this isless urgent, you will probably maybe find
the back half of this a littlebit tiresome, but then still get fucking
alone in Dublin and like come Onheart Ache, which I think are just
again again those are peak Greg likeBingo songs, fine, but I love

(01:12:45):
it. I just I'm so onboard with the direction of those songs and
the storytelling Greg, you know,wandering around being lonely and doubling missing his
partner, Like I feel I'm therewith you, Greg, I'm completely there
with you. Yeah. I thinksonically there's a couple of moments to feel
like the Mensingers almost taking the momentsort of play things around a little bit
and kind of get some like slightlynew things out of the core building blocks

(01:13:06):
that all of their songs are realisticallygonna all share I like, and nobody
stays at the end. You area kind of marching band sort of slowly
ramps up in the mix as acool touch you don't normally get, like
mixing bore manipulation in the Mensingers album, which I'm just pretty plug in and
play take It to Heart has gotan interesting rift that sort of sounds like
they're threatening to do like a dancefloor hipshaker stra on That one, which

(01:13:28):
they don't normally do as much.Try, which you mentioned, is one
that really stood out to me becausefor the first few seconds majorly sounds like
a dirty nil song for how justlike rock and roll it is, And
then throughout the verses, particular thesecond verse onwards, there's like this constant
like kind of hard hacking guitar chord. It's a bit more like Cavell Attack
or something like. It's it's anuncharacteristically rowdy tune. Tom's voice on it.

(01:13:49):
It took me a moment to actuallyfigure out if that was him more
greg because he's doing this sort oflower barked register that's a bit uncanny somehow.
But the power and the hook onthe pot it is, you know,
a banger. Then it leans reallyhard on like the laid back,
simmering Americanoie songs. And I thinkthis album has to be the most like

(01:14:11):
nice unhurried Mensingers album we are evergetting so far, even compared to Hello,
Exile, Come On heart Ache,I agree, really nice, like
the big vocal lift off and thatproper like classic black time in my head
as well. Really yeah, likeit feels like it should be like a
big seventies duet or something like FleetwoodMack or something. But but then it
really it sits in that zone foralmost the entire rest of the album,

(01:14:33):
like it's expended most of its energyin the first leg. Yeah, I
get that fair enough. I mean, I'm happy to sit in the zone
because you know, Men's is doingmore Springsteen the Americana stuff. I love
that shit. I can't get enoughof it, So I don't. I
never found that to really be anissue for me, but I can understand
why, maybe if it's down tothe sequencing or something like that, that

(01:14:55):
the second half of this album isa bit more reserved and laid back and
not as exciting. See for me, it's not really a stylistic issue in
the second half. I just thinkthey put the best songs in the first
half. I agree. I thinkthis is the most top heavy mending of
this album by an absolute mile.Yeah, because I'm not coming into this

(01:15:16):
going ah mensingers like punk rock,let's fucking go. I like I like
their kind of the face grape Bunnetlike come On High Ache I think is
excellent. Again, when that wasanother single, I was really into that.
And yet for me, the bestsongs generally are the more Uptempyone's hope
is a Dangerous Little Thing try,which for me it might be a bit

(01:15:39):
of stuff like fireworks, take Itto Heart, give Me a little bit
of sort of secondhand embarrassment. Idon't think the swagger really suits exactly.
Yeah, Like again, not abad idea, but I'm not sure it's
brilliantly realized. My problem really isthat the last run of songs like from
Love at the End to Running inthe Raw of the Wind. It's not

(01:15:59):
that they're low per se, becauseif they were all great, I wouldn't
mind at all. It's there justa bit forgettable. Yeah, I think,
like my listen to this, Ifind myself really engaged during the first
half and then mildly engaged during thesecond half. Like I'm not saying it's
a dramatic like I never need tohear the second half this album. Again,
I don't mind listening to it,but the second half does dramatically feel

(01:16:24):
more like second half album filler tracksthat you wouldn't be that bother about seeing
live compared to the first half.Then they usually do. Hello XA,
for example, ended on some ofmy favorite songs on that album. I
think Hello Youth is one of theirbest ever closers. You've got like London,
Drugs and Stuff at the back endthat record that absolutely goes and that
you know, it has those bigtwo bangers at the start, but it
does contain, you know, itmeasures itself well. This one doesn't have

(01:16:45):
the same affirming and enduring conclusion forme. I keep forgetting the last handful
of songs on this like I youknow, I like Alone in Dublin in
the last bat which you mentioned.I love that song. Yeah, it's
good song. The album I don'tI think You're ultra violet in the middle
mostly sort of lower tempoe and register, but that song is quite stirring and
beautiful A lot post that. Thoughit's not sticky. It's it's just nice

(01:17:12):
and nicest fine, but it's notvery sticky, I mean fair enough.
I mean, I don't know,like I like about like again, I
can't really be to I'm just thisis one of those times that I just
I love this band too much.As where I'm just like, whatever they
do, I'm on boarding it.And again I assume with the songs,
but because I buy so much intothe storytelling, the lyrics and all that

(01:17:36):
that I find like stuff like Ididn't miss you until you were gone.
Maybe that isn't the most like amedi memorial song, but you know Greg
reminiscing on like past romances and notknowing we hadt what it's going on that
I'm like, yeah, Greg,I feel you. I just I buy
into that too much. Yeah,storytelling is fine, but in terms of
actual musicality of songwriting, like Ilike the chorus and high Low, but

(01:17:59):
it's pretty static. The closing coupletracks past that are the most boring that
the Men Singers have maybe ever been. And I think you could pretty much
end it at any point in thoselast few handful of songs and my impression
of the album would be the same. They never get the same force of
delivery in how you're gonna sing itback to them that they get on like
the first run on this album,and you know, when Hello XR came

(01:18:23):
out and it was following off theParty, there was a bit of that,
like, oh the mensings are slowingdown. They're going all middle age
now and getting a bit of pedestrian. I think this album is much more
warrenton of that descriptor than Hello exAre was. It's still good. It's
got some great songs on it.It doesn't feel like they're checking out in
how much they care. These bandsdon't tend to have dramatic reinventions, so

(01:18:44):
you can imagine them consistently doing moreof these like these punk bands tend to
do. But I think it issome great songs and some pretty tepid ones.
I mean I think I think Tippidis very harsh to I think like
it mean Lukewall, It's harsh,like I don't get it. But I

(01:19:05):
I, like I said, Ithink this is maybe it doesn't have like
the highs like again, like maybeI had like a strain your memory or
something like that in the back half, like fair enough. But I think
it's far more consistently I was consistentlyengaged. It's more than I am with
like Hello Exile, which I thinkis a lot more up and down as
an album potentially, And I thinkthe lowers on that album do drag it

(01:19:27):
down. I think there are achoice ones that you know, Greg stood
closer to the mic this time,which is, you know, a nice
thing for people who didn't like thesound of Hellow Exile. I think the
production sounds really good. I thinklike the guitar tone I love all these
songs every time it comes in.It's immediately enough to to sell me in
a song when I just hear thesort of opening guitar line on a song
before and even come in, itjust hits all the right components for what

(01:19:49):
I want from this type of musicat this point. Yeah, I don't
begrudge hardcore meendsing as fans having thisone of their favorite albums of the year,
right like it it's a Mensingers album. They love that thing here it
is. It's great, that's that'swicked, and there are amazing songs on
it. Absolutely, I think froma from a less close to the you
know source, like I wouldn't givethis to someone who's their first yeah,

(01:20:12):
you know, I would hand themafter the party on the impossible past before.
I think you basically, as aless close to the thing, you
know, you can observe that thisis a less consistent, less jam packed,
less fiery version, but it's stillgood. Some of it was true.
Okay, finally, let's get toit. The massive release this month
not just from a band who arebig, but it's a band where this
is a big moment in their history. It's obviously Blink one eighty two,

(01:20:36):
very amusingly considering the last one.It's their ninth album and it is you
know, it's to be known asthe return of Tom DeLong album. The
classic Blink era reunited once again.This has happened before. Neighborhoods is also
a return of Tom DeLong album,but there the band simply went on hiatus,
whereas this time we have had somealbums in the last decade from a

(01:20:59):
different version of Blinky two. Thereis a lot of context with this album.
There is the work that they didin those few years without Tom,
and whether it was any good ornot. There were the single for this
album that we heard and whether theywere any good or not. There is
what Tom has been getting up toin the meantime, plastering. He was
right over the back of his stage. Now. The one I guess aspect
that they seem to be keenest topush forward in the Satural project is the

(01:21:20):
emotional narrative of these three guys whohave so much history together, overcoming the
barriers between them, overcoming in Mark'scase, life threatening disease, and coming
together for as the album calls it, one more time. All of this
we will touch on throughout the review, but I'm going to kick start it
right off by saying, no matterwhat else may be true, it's a

(01:21:41):
nice silver lining that this is nowherenear as much of a train wreck as
the last Blink one eighty two album. Yeah, that is a good album,
was enough for me to just ignoreit avoid all of context that I
considers go, I like this album. That's a win. Yeah. I've
gone into this record with as prettymuch as positive an outlook on Blink as

(01:22:02):
maybe I've ever had going into anyof their records. Like for me,
I just say, we'll get intoit. All the circumstances surrounding this they
have kind of warmed me to theband, Like it's hard to not get
swept up in the movie ending andit's never gonna be my favorite thing.
But the fact that I think thisis as sort of as good as it

(01:22:23):
is, it's nice for that tohappen at least. Yeah, I generally
consider myself a bit of a bankwhen I's an apologist, right, And
it's unusual because, like I saidearlier, I wouldn't call them one of
my absolute favorite bands, right,Like this isn't me with the Menzingers,
with you Sam, like that theirrecords don't mean as much to me as
some other bands. I didn't getinto rock music because I've take off your

(01:22:44):
pants and jacket, But I dogenerally seem to be inclined to like most
things that they do, like neighborhoodsI actually love. As it turns out,
like I'm glad I'm not the onlyone in California. I think there
might be a bit of revisionist historygoing on now and now with some Blink
fans of going, oh thank godTom's back. This is much better than
anything they've done in twenty years.We should have pretended that California wasn't really

(01:23:05):
well received at the time, andthey are still playing ball to death now
when Tom didn't have anything to dowith that song. That is not ripper
Rowan stuff, right. But ninewas their shit record and One more Time,
while we all wanted it to begood, got off to a ropey
start when they released Edging and mostof us went, oh, I'm not

(01:23:26):
really sure about this. I thinkin the pantheon of Blink, I might
only have this above nine personally,with my quirks whatever, I don't think
this album is the late career highlightthat even California was without Tom. But
it is such a substantial steadying ofthe ship after nine that, along with
the narrative that goes into it,it's just quite a pleasant thing to hear.

(01:23:50):
Yeah, I mean, I wouldtake parts of this album of California.
I'm not the biggest California fan,but I can, you know,
respect that album as it was agood Blink Albert. But I do agree
this isn't like, you know,I don't think this is a classic Blink
album. This is this is justthe you know, steading of the ship,
the the comeback after a disastrous album, and I'm very happy with that

(01:24:15):
as if that's the outcome. Yeah, I think that. I think I'm
sort of on the same page asboth of you. I think in terms
of where this is going to bein the Blink canon, you know,
it's not like it's not I don'tthink it's gonna be like a Brave New
World or anything. Like that,where forever it's seed as this maybe their
best record or anything like that,But there is a kind of harmony that's

(01:24:39):
been re established just by having TomDeLong back in the band and like knowing
what Blink one eight two is themhaving their kind of resurgence because of it
and that sort of thing, andthe album isn't nearly bad enough to derail
that, which I think for Blinkone eight two, given everything that's happened
is a success. Yeah. Iit's a case of being relieved it's not

(01:25:01):
a hot mess as opposed to beinglike truly impressed by it. But listening
through this album, it came asa shock to me how little embarrassing or
awkward material there was. I waslistening through my first time, like waiting
for it to happen, and Iwas like, this song's pretty good,
this song's pretty good. This doesn'tsound terrible. There's some weird stuff,
and at like seventeen tracks long,it's obviously not all essential, but you

(01:25:24):
know, fuck it, I'll letthis be the damning with faint praise album
I though don't really mean it tobe. I found this album surprisingly distable
for what we have said around Blink, whinated two studio work in recent years.
There's a lot on this album thatis, you know, self reflexive
to an almost absurd degree at points. But one of the moments that does
feel right and tasteful is opening withanother Anthem track, which I know bands

(01:25:44):
doing sequels to their songs is riskybusiness. The Anthems are already a series
with Blink, and like, openingthis particular album with a third one feels
like, yeah, go on,scene setter. I honestly the moment I
hit play and that was what Iwas a greeting. With those opening guitar
lines, I just felt at ease, like and I'm like it might be
manipulative in like like manipulating my nostalgiafor Anthem Part two in particular, but

(01:26:09):
I was like, you've worked likethat. That opening guitarment is into that
riff, into the sort of justthe pop punk burst with the drumming the
pacers really there, which is yeah, what I was happy about. It
sounds genuinely like lively and invigorating,and I think and then when Tom comes
in and like again like the Tom, I can't be bob to have the

(01:26:29):
Tom doong as a vocalist discussion.But I I love Tom DeLong as a
songwriter. I genuinely like his songwritingand melodies. I think it's one of
those things that people don't often giveenough credit for. And when he comes
in on that, you're gonna go, yeah, that's a like really good,
just like bright melodic Tom DeLong verse, and I'm like, cool.
I don't think he sounds that badon this record, like compared to what
he could sound like. I mean, I have no nostalgia for the old

(01:26:55):
Blink stuff, so Anthem Part threedidn't have that to play on with me.
But I think as an opener itis really strong, Like, it's
really wide eyed and energetic. Themelodies, like you say, some like
from Tom a great like it's exactlythe sort of vibe that was hoping the
comeback Blink record would come out with. And to be honest, like,
it's not all smooth sailing in theopening, but generally speaking, I think

(01:27:17):
it opens pretty pretty well. Yeah, in the sonic approach, it reminds
me more of California than it isnine in that yeah, it is you
know, felban A's fuck or Hereobviously handed over to the Felbur protege in
the band Travis Barker. So it'snot mega organic or whatever. It clearly

(01:27:38):
sounds more studio than it does,you know, plug in and play punk
band. But that album California wasthe rare example of that, letting the
hooks pop and letting the impact ofparticularly the rhythm section, you know,
smack you. The problem with ninewas the fact that there were twelve songwriters
on each track, and there werethese broken, glued together husks of different
things that didn't go, and thenyou put that through that production filter.

(01:28:00):
This feels more back to basics theway that California did, so, you
know, just with with Tom's songwritingvoice added into the mix rather than Matts,
and with a decent enough taste forthat kind of pop rock thing as
long as it's well done and wellperformed. Get some really good tunes here,
dance with me. I think it'sreally fun. Like for a start,
genuinely funny start to it. WhenI teach masturbation, I'm like,

(01:28:21):
have fun with it. Sorry,that is funny. I don't care what
you say about what they do.That makes me laugh, But that chorus,
no, I do why they're olayingbut it's fucking catchy, right.
That chorus could be such a clunker, but I don't know the way they
just deliver it. It's again reallyinfectiously Like but they said that songs like
that owes the Ramones and stuff likethat. They're dresses the Ramones in in

(01:28:42):
the video, but I think theykind of just go for that really simple
hack and slash dance danceable pop punkstuff and I'm like, yeah, they're
they're hitting it, you know.Again, the guitar melagies just kind of
just brighten my day, and it'sit's really fun. The conviction on that
track in particularly what carries it forme, where like it feels like they're
actually enjoying it. They're lively,they're invested in and again, whilst it

(01:29:03):
is quite studio heavy on that,that doesn't, you know, dampen any
of that conviction or energy in thetrack for me. Yeah, you know,
it's it's pop punk with memorable hooks. Would you believe it? The
thing that Blink perfected in nineteen ninetynine that everyone afterwards seemingly forgot how to
do. But this this song givesme the same feeling as like those really
great Lively tunes on California like She'sout of her mind or rabbit Hole or

(01:29:25):
whatever, and you know, onCalifornia, a lot of us are like,
isn't it weird to have Blink soundingmore graceful in their age than you
know, the Offspring or whoever thisis that on that song for me,
well, for me, it soundslike the Descendants, who I think are
the like a star example of howa pop punk band should sound in their
fifties in their case maybe their sixties, like in terms of age and gracefully.

(01:29:47):
As much as this is kind ofproduced to be like a kind of
like a modern pop record at points, I think it's cool to hear that
part of their DNA where it's headlike, even if the setting is clinical,
I think the song kind of pushesthrough it this time. Yeah.
Again, seeing Blink live earlier earlierthis week, Tom's guitar is like covered

(01:30:10):
in stickers of like Descendants and Tsoland Fougas and all this cool stuff,
And it's nice to see that stillthere in an arena setting, you know,
And that's for me, that's thebest one. But when they hit
that thing and let it go,they sound a lot better and they probably
buy it, right, should youknow? More than you know has some
genuine roaring guitars in it. Tom'sdoing like a bit of a yelpie self
titled botscar Racer thing that's pretty rad. And then it ushers in an actual

(01:30:32):
overkill esque double bass charge and that'sthe first time that that comparison has been
made. But you know, thegenuine, the kind of the pacey,
peppy songs. Turpentine was always gonnabe a fun word just to hear Tom
DeLong sing. I don't know howhe hasn't done it before because you can
already hear it so strongly in yourhead. But you know, like bad
News get escape punk beat going andfill it with a lot of melody.

(01:30:55):
They do that really well still andthey do sound a lot more alive when
they're doing that, and then alot of other pop punk bands. Bad
News is like an easy coore song, like he pummeling on it. And
I'll tell you what, Like asmuch as he's kind of he's not produced
it to my tastes, he hason this record. Got I mean,

(01:31:15):
he's always been known as a greatdrummer, but I think he's got a
really strong performance on this one,and he's it's annoying that he's produced his
drums the way he has, becausethere's loads of clever stuff, like more
than you know you mentioned the overkillbeat. They throw in a kind of
disco beat towards the end with littletropical beats over it, and I like
it, and I can't believe I'msaying that about Blink ONN eight too,
like the tropical disco bit. Andthen there's a twenty second hardcore song with

(01:31:39):
Travis doing screening vocals and Tim Armstrongand guitar. Apparently, Yeah, why
not something fun for me? Productionwise? It's it's right, it's not
a disaster. It's a rare momentof giving John Feldman some credit because I
think he's a bit more of apro behind the production death than Barker.
This album it's a bit like whatif California was cheaper and amateurist? You

(01:32:02):
know It's it makes it really onand off with how things are gonna land,
Tom. I think sounds quite strangewhen you put me into that Barker
Feldman machine. Fell in Love isso or a tune and robotic that it
must be a creative choice to havean intentional robo sound on him and like
it it slightly, I guess vindicatesmy initial stance on Edging hearing it here

(01:32:24):
because I don't think it's an awfulsong, right, Like the proper chorus
actually like a fair bit, butit's the odd, blown out mix and
the vocal processing on it that makesit feel fucking weird. And it's it's
a bit like, you know,you guys made Enemy of the State with
Jerry Finn. You surely know ofall people what this music sounds like.

(01:32:44):
When it sounds good, right likethat, that's still something that sounds good.
This is it's not intolerable, butI found it, you know,
inconsistent, and I did go,Man, this feels slight weirdly, slightly
more in house budget than they havebeen in the past. Yeah, I
get it. I mean I thinkEdging is the one that sticks out like

(01:33:05):
a sort of fun in terms ofthe production. I don't mind fell in
Love, I think because they're goingfor a more kind of like power pop
kind of like thing with that,Like, you know, the little clapping
b is very breezy. I'm specificallytalking about the you know, and Tom's
voice on that song. Yeah,fair enough on that one, But again
I didn't that that didn't bother metoo much. I kind of just took
it as part of the sound becausethey I think they try a few differ

(01:33:28):
things. This album, Edging isjust the one where the production does really
stand out to me as as greatand and everything else was like kind of
like you could take or leave someof the production choices like that, but
it didn't bother me. I thinkfell in Love when that opens, it
sounds a bit like Love Island,which isn't ideal. It's an interpolation of
close to Me by the Cure withthose like plinky plunk bits, but it

(01:33:49):
sounds so much more fucking goofy simsT music here than it did there a
little bit. Yeah, and there'sthere's a couple of songs on here where
I feel like the production is evenif the production is not good, it
feels like it's kind of accommodating forit. So like Terrified, I don't
think box Car Racer song is it, well, yeah, it's it's apparently
it's an old like I see,like you know a song that was written

(01:34:13):
around then. For the first fiveseconds, honest to god, sounds like
NonStop feeling your return style riff likea little bit. Yeah, it's like
grabbing something gonna pop in. Thenagain it kind of the vocal and everything
get really garbled in the mix,which I don't know if that's what you're
gonna say, but yeah, andthe synth sound a bit like Owl City.
I don't know. That was oneof the songs when I was listening
to it, and I was like, I don't even know if this would

(01:34:34):
have sounded better on Enema of theState, because I don't think there's that
much of a song there. Hook'snot all that strong. It feels like
I say, garbling the vocals.It's almost like a trick just to make
it feel a bit more stand outthis early on in the sequencing. See,
I really like Terrified. I meanI really like that box Car Racer
album, and I got that vibefrom it immediately. I do think it's

(01:34:56):
one where again I can see wherethe production doesn't necessarily suit that song because
it's not of this year, andI think if it was kind of came
out at the time and I wasmeant with that Naughty's Boxcar. Can you
imagine the Boxcar Racer album produced byTravis Barker or John Feldman. I don't
want to imagine that because I lovethat album and I don't want to think
of it being well, you've gota bit of it here, maybe a

(01:35:17):
little bit. But I think thesong, like, the song still carried
enough for me to kind of go, I still like that. I just
I can see where that song couldbe better if it wasn't. Yeah,
the hurt interlude, I think it'sa bit blown out, not much of
anything. It's funny. I wasI thought of this earlier when you were
talking about Black Heaven and how whenbands do these things. It could be

(01:35:38):
a bit of a joke, butI actually I really like blink Wave.
I think was that chorus as awinner? Yeah, it's it started,
and I scoffed, going, obviouslythis song is called blink wave, like
the band who wrote on some emoshit are going to call this song that.
But it's a little bop that like. I really like the kind of
keress line there and the duet withthe synthe Yeah, the twinkly post punk

(01:36:01):
guitar that's really feel good, andyou know, the neighborhoods fan in me
really goes out, And so Idid I like that turn a lot?
Actually, yeah, the kind ofwe're back together reminiscing through line of the
album. You can't doubt the sincerityof it, as you were saying at
the start, Elliot, which forgivesthem a lot, and it can make
for some really nice moments like I'vequitble for the song itself, but a

(01:36:21):
song about remembering the time you fellin love, but it's a platonic band
mate song is very cute, andthen it has an unexpected second verse where
it goes all exploring each other's bodies, which is of course they've they've put
that in there. Mileage may varyon how cheeser you can take it on
the rest of it, because thereare times when the remember our youth gets

(01:36:42):
a bit too precious, like surelyyou can have either when we were young
or childhood on an album, notboth. I think Childhood is one again
probably won the weekly Tracks here.I'm not a huge fand that When we
were Young, which I'm almost sickof that saying, because of the festival

(01:37:02):
when everything is happening right now wasa recording of a certain period of like
pop, pop, punk and nostalgia. I don't think it's a good song,
though, you know, Jack andthey played that song this weekend,
I'd have to look at the setlist, like I'm sure they must do.
But it's you know, it's abright and boisterous, just punk track that's
kind of reminiscing of the classic days. And I had fun with that one,

(01:37:25):
But Childhood was the one that Iwas like, I say, okay,
I think it's a bit of aweek close as our childhood. I
think this speaks to one of mymain problems with the record generally, and
it's like there's a few songs onit, a fair few where they just
feel a bit redundant, Like thesongs aren't long. This isn't a long
record, but I'm looking at itgoing like there's a lot of songs.
Though, yeah, do we needboth of these? Like you're saying,

(01:37:46):
do we need Childhood or when wewere young? Frankly, I think we
can get rid of either or outof both, because I think the kind
of general sentiment and the reason whyit's nice to reminisce is kind of captured
in One more Time anyway in thesong, which is by far the best
of those three, And honestly,when that song came out and I saw
what it was called, and Iheard, oh, they're referencing all their

(01:38:09):
old videos. I was kind oflike ready to roll my eyes, and
I felt like this warmness towards Blinkthat I'd never had before. It's a
pop punk badder by, one ofthose classic mass I've never gelled with.
And the lyrics are kind of reallyobvious and predictable, and it's played totally
straight, and yet I found thatsong such surprisingly resonant. I kind of

(01:38:30):
liked how literal the lyrics were,and even if it used the same chords
and melody thousands of bands have used, and for me, by the time
I got to the end of therecord, it felt like I'd had a
couple more of them. Like whatit's about that that title track is where
it is in the album? Right, Like yeah, they released that,
right, that's the closer, Likeagain, I saw them this weekend.
That was their own core, Right. They just came out, played that

(01:38:51):
song and left or an intro orsomething track five of seventeen and then you
have Childhood and stuff later on.Really weird deflation to just pop it in
there, yeah, because it's oneof those well like you say, I
thought, if this is like atwelve track record and we have eleven more
up tempo, good to have themback songs. And then there's this ballad

(01:39:12):
at the end. Fair enough thatmakes sense all that, you say,
open the record with it, ifyou're going to be that bold, and
then you know, get everyone emotionaland then hitting with another bunch of songs
to kind of have it just afterTerrified is so weird. Yeah, bizarre
sequencing, and the album is youknow, it's it's so clearly, like,

(01:39:34):
you know, not that deep interms of how how it comes across
on the page. You know,it's the sincerity that lets it work,
because you know, like you don'tknow what you've got is obviously it's just
really basic. The chorus is justthem saying that basically. But as you
know, a Mark song about hislast few years obviously rings a lot more
true and it's performed very genuinely.I think, you know, so there's

(01:39:55):
filler. Sonically inconsistent, I thinkpretty majorly. Sometimes the ideas are more
like oddities than they are genuine inspiration. It's I think noticeably less consistent as
a big sixteen seventeen track album thanCalifornia was which I'm not having written out
of the pictures like some weird misstep, and it is very schmaltzy. But
it's much better than it threatened tobe, and there's maybe more to like

(01:40:17):
hear than not. You know,there's a few really good Latter Day Blink
songs and a general feeling of sortof like oh, niceness and completion to
it, you know, six outof ten with odd flashes of something more
better than I mean, I'd golike a seven out of ten that was
kind of mining. I was like, you know, good spling. I'm
a bit more forgiving something I wouldsay, agree, I'd agree it is

(01:40:39):
a bit bloated. You could shaveoff some of the songs because they share
ideas. But when it hits,this album does kind of give me that
like warm, fuzzy kind of magicalfeeling that I was like, ah,
yeah, that's sling. When Ido that, I again a really important
band in shaping my music taste andgetting into rock music. And I think
that's why maybe I'm I'm more happyto go with some of the is it

(01:41:00):
but it was just it just itwas now that just made me happy when
I hit playing and I had agood time with it, and it's a
more romantic album than it is agreat album, but it has some money.
It's no neighbourhoods, that's for sure. Okay. Roger Waters is next.
We spoke about a single from thisa little while ago. I didn't
necessarily intend on us actually reviewing thealbum, but Elliott, upon hearing the

(01:41:25):
whole thing, was like, weshould do this, and I trusted you
without listening to it myself, soI was like, I was like,
it's been it's been a while tobe done. Something a bit daft,
I guess, so Roger Waters fora start, I guess. Pink Floyd
has been pointed out that this isthe first time properly that TNM is actually
covering something Pink Floyd related, referencedall the time whenever a progress comes up

(01:41:47):
one of the biggest and most belovedbands of all time. I'm not taking
the blame for that, by theway, but here we are breaking that
with Dark Side of the Moon,Roger's version of all things, and Roger
Water is He's an outspoken, controversialcharacter. I don't really know enough to
have much of an opinion on him. Honestly, I know that he's been

(01:42:08):
very vocal about things like the IsraelPalestine conflict, which has had him labeled
all kinds of things. You know, this week, of all weeks,
it certainly stands out. But youknow, again for the purposes of review,
neither here of there. I don'tknow. I don't really follow what
people are upset him for when DavidGilmore is calling him like a rotten anti
Semite or whatever. I can't sayin relation to Pink Floyd, as that
sour interaction might suggest he's been Iguess quite humorously at timed ego brained is

(01:42:30):
how you would describe it looking froma distance, I guess, which brings
us to what he's done here.There was a tour that he did recently.
I vidly remember seeing the poster forat my local arena, where he
was credited as the original creator ofand then listing all of the Floyd albums
Elliott for the Floyd Taurists. Isthat how Roger Waters this sort of scene
comes across er sort of? I'dsay that like he's kind of seen as

(01:42:54):
something of a curmudgeon, where it'slike loved but not liked. Maybe it's
the only work see they staying ofprogue. Yeah, actually that's not a
bad shout because here's the thing,right, Pink Floyd have this reputation for
being kind of like a boring oldlike Boomeery band that like the Eagles or

(01:43:15):
something, and it's so wide ofthe mark because they were like one of
the most forward thinking, groundbreaking andfor a while outright weird bands in the
world. Right. You can gothrough their catalog. It's fucking mental and
useful and all sorts of things.Right, And the reason why Roger Waters
is so significant to it is becausePink Floyd have had like three sort of

(01:43:39):
the facto leaders in their time,and Roger Waters was the guy kind of
masterminding the concepts for Dark Side ofthe Moon, which you would here animals
and the wall. So it iskind of true that he is, in
air quotes, the creator, butthat does somewhat overlook how important the other

(01:44:00):
guys were from my point of view, again and more casual obviously, that
classic era, which is what theABMs you've named there are, Like if
you ask you to name Pink Floydalbums, those are the ones that they're
naming, maybe adding Piper at theGates of the dorm but like conceptual leader,
right, Like the spiritual idea andthe conceptual ideas of where those albums
are going comes from Roger Waters.But that overlooks, as you say,

(01:44:24):
the collaborative effort of actually piecing togetherthe music. You're the primary I guess
knowledge based on these sort of sixtyseventy prog brands. I like Pink Floyd
like, I'm not a super fan. They're not my favorite band of that
ILK, which is not necessarily myprimary world anyway, but I like them.
I got really into Animals last year, actually, which is maybe my
favorite Pink Floyd animal album right now. Dartside the Moon was the first one

(01:44:45):
I heard, and I like thattoo. They do have other classic albums
that chimeing me a bit less,wish what You're here does less for me.
I'm not insanely attached to the originalversion of this, It's just an
album that I like. Sam goingto be talking about a Redux version of
an album that is one of thebiggest of all time. I suppose it's
worth establishing if you have any connectionwith the original dart Side of the Moon

(01:45:09):
at all, one of those iconicand heavily reference albums ever, but it
is, at the end of theday, a seventies prog album. I
really liked it, Like I hadthis album like I don't like as much
as you know when you're about prog. I don't actually have particularly any particular
beef with Pink Floyd. I thinkThe Wall is that, like The Wall
is the one Pink Floyd album I'vekind of actually been like, oh,
you know, that's a really goodalbum, but you know her look growing

(01:45:30):
up listening to this, I didto have to sit them go. It's
Toxics of the Moon actually a goodalbum? Have we all been had?
And I had to go back andlisten to the original Dark Side of the
Moon after listening to this, justto kind of be like, was it
actually any good? And I mean, we'll get into it, but yeah,
I Pink Floyd of a band Irespect more than like one of those

(01:45:50):
I'm not gonna know shit on PinkFloyd because I'm not a complete for the
time, but I don't, youknow, not a bad I've ever had
any particularly strong feelings towards. Okay, fine, so the most prickly egotistical
guy in Pink Floyd doing on hisown without any of the others. A
re recorded version of one of thebiggest albums ever fifty years after the fact,

(01:46:13):
I think alarm bells would be ringingfor anyone sensible. The first stuff
we heard from this was when hereleased the new version of the track Money,
and that was like, what thefuck's he done here? Here in
the whole album? What? Elliott? What level of bizarre choice? I
guess do you think we're talking here? Because again you suggested that we actually
review this whole thing as a piece. Money was funny, like such an
odder toy. Money, Like thewhole album. Listening through it, it

(01:46:38):
was quite disparate. I don't know, so like in that run of albums,
as we've thought, Dark Side ofthe Moon is probably the crowning achievement,
Like it's the album by which iconicalbums are measured, right, Yeah,
it's got to be. Again,I don't know if I'm sure a
lot of people it won't be theirfavorite, but it's got to be absolutely
the biggest sadly one surely. Ohyeah, yeah, comfortably. And for

(01:47:01):
me, I was curious because Ithought Howard, an eighty year old man
who has spent his career sort ofbucking trends, defying expectations, deliberately doing
things to alienate his audience, goabout reworking his definitive statement, and like
you say, money was funny,and we started joking about how he's gonna
do with the other songs, andthe album is so much stranger and more

(01:47:27):
ill advised and comical and above allworse than I had any hope of it
being because Roger Waters, you havegone off the deep end. Yeah,
I mean, Money is one ofthe few Pink Floyd songs that Jumie like.
That bassline is fucking wicked, likegreat song, and that money vasion
where you just be like, I'mgonna strip all of the life out of

(01:47:48):
that something, just you know,grumble over it and slow it down and
make it just like really plodding.I was like, it's gonna do this
for the whole album, and thendoes that and more. The proper context,
I guess is to go in fullfairness, you know, he said,
this is not intended to be anykind of like, you know,

(01:48:08):
he's not actually Taylor Swifty in thisright. It's not meant to be a
replacement. It's a sort of embracingthe fact that he is fifty years older.
Now it's this guy who is likeeighty years old. How does he,
you know, relate to and comeout of these songs from when he
was a young man. I don'tbegrudge him that experiment at all, particularly
something on like the Great Gig inthe Sky on a thematic level, purely
that must take on a very differentmeaning, you know, when you're eighty

(01:48:30):
compared to when you're thirty. Andthe other side of that is also going
we were stupid when we were youngand the world didn't take heed of our
message. I have to do itagain. But now I'm older and wiser.
I don't hate this, but Ihave rarely heard an album where I'm
more like nonplust of what I'm meantto take away from it. Oh,
I hate this. I was justsort of like I was confused. I

(01:48:54):
was just like, okay, allright, Roger, if you said it,
Breaking the Sky is one of themost indulgent things I've heard this year.
Roger Water was reading fan mail andthen like monologue, hears response,
fuck off is nonsense. It's like, I mean, the elevator pitch for

(01:49:16):
this record is so unappealing because hebasically went the Dark Side of the Moon.
But no solos, no ear candy, none of them is stuff that
kind of makes it, you know, drip with soul. How about me
sort of half asleep for the wholething, and you just go, But
great gig in the who goes,Oh, great gig in the sky.

(01:49:36):
I love that song, but youknow what it could do without that vocal?
That is the song like the reasonwhy people like it. Could we
get rid of that? And maybeI have some spoken word like it seems
like self sabotage and he's actually thebit that he's actually replaced the vocal with.
It's like this weird little disynth modejust just okay. I mean the

(01:50:00):
worst of those, and the onethat made me go like, oh can
we please do this was in Time, which Time is fucking There's been a
lot of plaudits and some perlatives fromme so far, but Time is one
of those like greatest songs ever everever, Like the sound, the drama,
the scope, everything about it isperfect. And of all those great

(01:50:23):
things, the best bit is thesolo. Everyone agrees like that you've missed
the starting gun into David Gilmore lettingrip. It's just it's magic, and
Roger Waters scraped that and just goeslike you've missed the starting gun. And
then some polite, warm organ warbling. You just go like, how how

(01:50:46):
have you misunderstood your crowning achievement?This badly? Like? And then the
second best bit about time, wherehe goes like and you run and you
run to catch up with the sun, like in the hands of David gilmw
Well, that's like a dramatic swelland burst moment. Roger Waters, it's
like an old man looking for hisslippers. Yeah again, time on this

(01:51:11):
because it's one of the ones wherehe he at least sings the melody a
little more like in You know,there are versions on this that are basically
just like you know, Granddad sleepytime color versions of the original where it's
still vaguely recognizable. Time is oneof them. And now I just went,
Okay, you know, it's justvery dead sounding compared to the original,
but it's not doesn't sound abysmal.But at the same time, like

(01:51:33):
I said, I didn't really knowwhat I was supposed to draw from it,
just that time has passed. Iguess the more extreme ones are the
ones where as you were saying,Sam, if you went and put the
Dart Side of the Moon real versionon afterwards, how the ones that are
like dramatically like completely different songs essentially, because as you say, all of
the prog rock flash that you'd associateall the dynamics are gone. Yeah,

(01:51:57):
it's all gone even compared to like, well again, one of the quieter
classic Floyd records is Wish You WereHere. That's still got those big huge
guitar slarers and everything that do alot of the kind of talking for it.
Obviously David Giham was not on this, so you know, don't need
them. I suppose it just verystrip back to the kind of the most
primitive elements. And I don't know. I listened to like, you know,
him doing Bereave as justly one ofmy pothereric Pink Floyd songs, and

(01:52:19):
that has this beautiful reverally production soundin the original that kind of you know,
the vocal melogy really lifts off andit sounds really magical. This does
sound like an eighty year old mandoing a weathered reflective version, So I
guess mission accomplished. And it's notunpleasant, but it's not much of anything,
and just replacing all of that stuffwith those kind of spoken word narrative

(01:52:45):
poetry parts like Great Gig in theSky when you're going through you know,
the letters of someone he knows andall that. It feels so personal specific
to Roger that I don't actually knowas a listener, I meant to get
out of it, like it's likehe's for I think for me. One
of the big things is I guessyou would say, swapping out of big
musical swells for just like Granddad's poetryis those feelings and experiences. Dark Side

(01:53:11):
of the Moon was able to conveythrough music, right, and this it's
like the ability to translate it througha musical lens to a general audience has
been gone, and it's just sospecifically his experience to the point that it
is completely self indulgent. Well.Yeah, the strange thing about this from

(01:53:32):
Roger Waters, of all people,is that before he kind of took the
reins, Pink Floyd were kind ofadrift. And you listen to those albums
between Sid Barrett leaving and Roger Water'staking the reins, and there's barmy stuff
on it, like Adam hart Motherthe last thirteen minutes is a guy having
breakfast. It's their roading, gotlike old marmalade beans. Yeah, it's

(01:53:56):
like and he frequently talks about thatrecord, going load of shit. What
thinking we were on drugs? Thatwas fucking rubbish, And you go like,
well, now you're like clean andhad fifty years to look back on
that, and you've more or lessdone it again because saying about your bow
hooks and twine talking about that right, just like us and them, like

(01:54:17):
who why would it be a goodidea to sock all the drama and collidoscopic
sort of marvel out of that song, Like it sounds like he's demoing the
original into his phone notes. It'slike a proof of concepts. Like even
when he's when they're doing the echoof like green, Green, Green and
blue, it's more like green,green and blue. You get the idea,

(01:54:39):
and it's like, wait, thisthe original is like eight minutes of
magic, and you've just made thislike music version of it and you're just
kind of like barely grumbling what you'regonna do later? Yeah, this is
such a dumb Greebow trait to have. But the poetry between songs like on
the Run is like one of theones that's complete turned into just narration.

(01:55:01):
My association of what that sounds likeand what it should be is a Jeff
Wayne's War of the World's and bthe London record by Voices, So I
get a bit pavlov Dog. Whenthose spoken words are here, expect them
to either suddenly rip into like bigpsychotic black metal parts or go no one
would have believed. And neither thinghappens, obviously, and I'm just sort

(01:55:23):
of suspended in space, and I, you know, it certainly doesn't feel
like, Oh thanks, Roger.I'm really getting the message really hard now.
I missed it on the original,Like he barely seems to say much
of anything. You could savage thisand you have fair enough you could come
for you know, Roger, whatwas arrogance in taking this precious thing that
he made in collaboration with other peopleand solo ruining it. I think the

(01:55:46):
most I can do is some uphow I did earlier, which is it
sounds like something that made sense inRoger's head in terms of how he feels
about the album now and how hecomes to it differently half century later,
but not something that would ever translatethe same way to someone just listening to
the and it's not something that anaudience really needed to hear, So I
didn't find it that worth laughing at, but not really worth hearing either,

(01:56:09):
But I don't necessarily just I don'tdisagree with anyone who wants to call it
shit, because I mean, fuckknows, I have savage this and I
do think it's rubbish, but I'mvery glad it exists because it is funny.
And I think the more you knowthe original dark side of the mood
and like you said, the Pavlovianresponse you have to that record, the
stronger that is. The funnier thisis because when it got to the end

(01:56:30):
and I was I was like,oh, I cannot believe what a fucking
disaster this is. And it gotto eclipse and that like and oh that
your love and ah that you feellike that outro again so iconic, and
then Roger Waters interrupting the choir tosay what they're about to sing, just
going and all that you love andall that you feel. It's like once

(01:56:54):
when I was a kid, Iwas at like some kids club thing and
they had a DJ and the guydid the charchart slide and the deed was
giving the commands before the guy couldsing it to the left and slide to
the right, and you're like,we know, we know, we know
it's being handy. Casper is sortingout. It's like he's brought this choir
in and it's like he's coaching them, like just pre empting the finale.

(01:57:17):
It's like again, I mean RogerWaters, like I there's a lot to
not like about him, but heis funny. Like when he's doing this
tour, reading out four chaps,I mean, you're comparing with some Taylor
Swift. She's not reading out fourchapters of her autobiography before playing the first
song. And you go see RogerWaters doing Dark Side of the Moon.
That's what you're getting. You're gettingchapters of his book followed by a twenty

(01:57:40):
minute silent film and then these versionsof the songs. Okay, so like
that is the sort of behavior RogerWaters is getting. Get a babysitter,
Like that is the behavior the RogerWaters is getting up too. And part
of me loves it because it isso amusing and it's nice that there are
people like there, there's that thereare all legends that are still this sort

(01:58:00):
of gung ho and just doing whatthey want. But it is like,
it's pretty comical. I think,Yeah, occasionally we need to do like
this or like the Neil Morse albumfrom a couple years because of something we
go what the fuck so Dark Sideof the Moon Reducts. Okay, let's
get back on track. Let's talkabout some albums that we probably do recommend
you listen to. Svalbard. TheWeight of the Mask is the next one

(01:58:24):
up as we begin to move intomore underground territory over the course of the
rest of this episode. I thinkI said this when we signpost this album
coming out on the Hyperblasts, butI think we've reached the point with Falbard
where they've kind of graduated out ofbeing like, you know, a new
upstart band and instead they have become, you know, something of a UK
underground institution. Right There are bandswho look up to them, who want

(01:58:45):
to tour with them now in thatyou know realm. Their first records are
about a decade ago, and theyhave built up a really gushing fan base
around them who go to them fora you know, a specific itch and
they trust that they are kind ofhit that standard. When their new albums
coverage now, as you've seen withthis one. It is from the standpoint
of them having built up a numberof records now already that people have responded

(01:59:05):
really strong to. And if youwere in on you know, UK underground
hardcore or metal music in the midtwenty tens, you probably knows Svalbard from
then. I was a big fanof their early albums and EPs twenty twenties
When I Die Well It Get Betteris one of those albums that I think
could be seen as like both anapotheosis of what they've been doing and a

(01:59:27):
bit of a transition maybe, becauselike whether that record was the beginning of
a sort of second era of Svalbarthat we now find ourselves in or the
end of the first one. Eitherway, we are now somewhere a little
bit different because that record was sosuccessful for them, turning them from that
underground buzz act into one of themost like critically acclaimed heavy bands of that
year, and off the back ofit moving you know, industry wise,

(01:59:49):
from the UK punk labels that they'vebeen on up here to big international nuclear
blasts. They're definitely in a differentphase of their career now subtly than where
they were when this podcast first startedcovering them. Yeah, I mean you
can see those a lot more likecross punk in those earlier records, isn't
it. And there was they wereon you can necessarily put on Nuclear Blast

(02:00:11):
and give Koran covers too, andstuff like that. And it feels like
when I when I died, WhenI Get Better was the beginning of like
letting of them stepping up to thatbiggest stage where they can start to get
more coverage, And this just feelslike them taking that ball and running as
far as they're going, making justa big metal record now for them.
Yeah, I mean, it's interestingtalking about this one after having gone back

(02:00:34):
through the last records. It's nota major like, it's not a paradigm
shift. I don't think there's gonnabe many people going I only like Spellbard
before the way to the Mask andyou know, they're on Nuclear Blass.
It's not like they've gone all eurometalor anything. But this does feel like
sort of another the next logical stepin where they've been going, particularly in

(02:00:56):
the last couple of records. Yeah, I think across those albums could see
them I guess, figuring out moreand more what they wanted the sound to
be, what the balance was goingto be of the crustpunk from where they
started out versus the emphasis on melodyand the more tranquil passages which they really
stuck gold on on the last album. The musical impression I get from this
album is more taking that and solidifyingthat into the context of you know,

(02:01:21):
bigger label, bigger sound that accompaniesit. We spoke a fair bit about
how the recording sound has subtly shifteda little bit when we got the first
singles from this And that's not tosay that the arc of this album is
like, hey, we're a bigsuccessful band now, because obviously A behave,
but b when I di weally getBetter was an album that really really
connected with people on the grounds of, you know, its emotional honesty and

(02:01:44):
vulnerability. The romantic thing for thefollow up album would be to be a
lot happier, right, and tohave you know, some kind of success
and some healing, and instead,the themes of depression are even more pronounced
on this one, pretty much supplantingentirely the kind of social and political themes
that they used to lean on alittle bit more and obviously on a personal
note. You know, the peoplein Svalbard are good people, but yeah,

(02:02:04):
musically, to me, this feelslike they've they've consolidated what different musical
elements actually make up Svalbard at thispoint in time, with a particularly heavy
emphasis on the lyrical narrative this timeout. That maybe gives it more of
a specific thing that people are goingto latch onto than it just being oh,
here's another Svalbard record. Yeah.I mean I think like everything out

(02:02:26):
the way of the mask, likethe first one being faking it, it's
all very It is hugely about mentalhealth and depression, and that is some
of that is obviously such an importantfor some people. Now that people who
want to like kind of discuss thatwill latch onto this and it's going to
be something that will people will connectwith immensely. And pairing that with the
sound of this record, it feelslike a really natural like combination of lyrical

(02:02:51):
themes and just the actual sound andthe guitar melodies and the heavier parts of
that just coming together to create somethingthat is really emotionally effective. See.
I mean, maybe it's just me, but I thought if this were instrumental,
I think this might be the mostuplifting Svalbard record, And there's so
many little flourishes on this record thatfeel like you're kind of like stood atop
a mountain with a flaskar chocolate,like the opening of Defiance, the closing

(02:03:15):
moments of Lights Out, a lotof to will beneath the a lot of
to wilt beneath the weight, andkind of them bringing that more post rock
edge into their sound, which they'vekind of gradually done, leaning on that
more and more. I think ifyou weren't paying all that much attention to
the lyrics, you'd be forgiven forthinking this wasn't the more personal, depressive

(02:03:36):
spal Bard record, because it soundsso much more like Full of Light than
that. And again, to evokea cliche, but I like the way
those two things kind of tug ateach other. Yeah, I think it's
I could see what you're getting it. I think I would read that more
as like there is that they're fillingit more with the more openly kind of

(02:03:59):
pretty beautiful parts rather than the ragingparts. You know. Yeah, and
maybe that in part comes from againa sort of a you know, a
move to a more melancholic disposition asopposed to a you know, incendiary one.
Faking it I think is great opening, like the the immediacy with that
hit in your ears. I thinkthat's maybe the best example of how big

(02:04:19):
they can sound now, like bizarrely, because that guitar groove is so full
and like about as girthy that asyou could make like a black metal influenced
cross punk song sound, you know, and it is still a cross track,
like it d beats all the waythrough that verse. But there's an
interesting balancing out that they've sort ofover the course of a few albums subtly

(02:04:40):
reached out of making that feel like, you know, a kind of big,
even relatively mainstream sort of metal track. Like there's the really tight,
technical kind of pre chorus, it'sa little bit kajira, and then out
of that tightness it hits that likebig open break of the dam on the
that I don't recognize that's my oldhouse. It's a convincing part, and

(02:05:00):
there's a moment there where you know, they just get musical emphasis on a
particular sentiment that makes the desperation hitreally really hard. And those moments of
emphasis that they do of, youknow, musically or to slam together,
you know, on something like Idon't feel joy I just fake it.
Whatever it may be, they payoff as like big moments of punch on
the record that punch through you know, the next and everything. Yeah,

(02:05:24):
I think that's maybe the that mightbe the aspect for me, is most
indicative of the kind of record labelshift. I don't think the label have
had an influence of this record perse, but I think this is the
most impressive of their's sort of likea technical production sense, like the fidelity
on the drums is like remarkable,and the vocals aren't showded in, like

(02:05:46):
they're not shrouded in anything. Everything'sreally upfront and sort of close in the
ears. And for me, theproduction was something that I wasn't that keen
on at first. I thought theymight have cleaned it up just to sort
of hair too much, but sortof on repeated listens, I think it's
the right move because there are thosethose kind of more post rocky moments,
like they're full of ghost notes andkind of chorus guitars. I think maybe

(02:06:09):
they wouldn't sound as good if itwas a bit murkier and like you say
that bit in faking it where itdoes got a bit good, Jurr.
It's it's something that I didn't reallythink was in their wheelhouse, and I
think it suits them well. Ithink you're still with the production. I
love the production of the Job ofthe sum because it just lets those moments
where it becomes where it is prettyand it is good just sound so incredible,

(02:06:30):
because this some has that constant kindof like push and pulled between the
more heavy metallic crunch and the sortof punk stuff with them. As we
said though, those kind of postrock crescendos where it is just pure bliss,
but it's kind of like being pulledat by this anguish in the vocals
or that, and those are'ments soundso incredible to me, whether it's like
on Faking It or pretty much everysong you could have one of those moments

(02:06:51):
here and they always likely pour alot, but it always lands because of
how good the sound of the recordis. Yeah, like Eternal Spirit was
I think the first single that wespoke about, and that it reminds me
a little bit of the experience withthe Frozen Soul album where when the first
song from that was released, therewas a difference in production and we were
like, well, that's that's abit funny. You know, I'm not
used to hearing the band sound thisway, but over the course of the

(02:07:13):
album you just sort of forgot aboutit and slip into it more seamlessly,
and I think taking like a scalpelto it. I think it's all recognizably
Spalbard sounding. There is a subtleemphasis on just like the lower end and
the big, more pronounced metal grooves, a bit less of that reverby atmosphere
maybe, so I think it's it'smaybe slightly more brick wall throughout, but
it sounds more like a big metalband. And there's that big crunching breakdown

(02:07:33):
part in Eternal Spirits that feels,you know, it's still wider and vaster
than you know, fucking fit foran autopsy or whatever, because it's got
that like, you know, guitarwork for happening alongside it. But it
is the closest to like a bigmainstream metal breakdown that Salbard have done.
And it may be compared to pointin something like the latest Svalbard, sorry,
the latest Silosis, where it's likestill sounds like Silosis, but it's

(02:07:54):
very clearly and more accessible to theaverage festival punter version of it. I
think, you know, Serena's vugerfaunts on this is very strong, like
the back part of Defiance when she'sdoing that you know, try to kill
my drive, try to make medoubt part is spat, like she's really
fucking coming at you with a conviction. And you know Liam as well,

(02:08:16):
it maybe feels like more Serena's record, like some of my favorite parts on
the last album, actually Williams,like when he sang on Silent Restraint,
that's one of my favorites. Odds, I'd like to say that maybe explored
a little more. But Serena's deliverybeing front and center on this for the
obvious appropriate reasons is you know,is good. Even on November when she
does that kind of like spoken wordin the first half, it feels like
there's I guess, a real forceof emphasis on where she like kind of

(02:08:39):
you know, puts each line.And I think there are certain listeners out
there for whom this particular alchemy willbe like a comfort blanket, right like
I think Stalbard now have a propersignature, sound like it's made up of
elements that are recognizable from elsewhere.But the way they blend. It is
one of those things where you justknow it's them immediately and it has been
carefully built up over the years.I saw someone the other day saying they

(02:09:01):
just sound like they're ripping off Rollato Massi, and no like that they're
relatable to Roller to Massi. Butif you think Corolla to Massi is built
on the same combination of specifically dbeat crust and melodic Black Gays guitar playing,
that this is I don't think you'regetting either band enough credit. Then
you've dumbed them both down. Andan example is the way the guitars constantly
carry melodies is such a trademark oftheirs specifically. Yeah, I mean that

(02:09:26):
that guitar, that melodic guitar isquite of my favorite thing in this album,
just every time it hits them,just like, oh man, they
they just know when to crank outthose melodies, to just give that final
lift. And I agree, likethere are comparisons what you can make to
Svalbard and various kind of UK bandswho have kind of all come up on
the underground. You could say,like relat Massi or even like Devil sort

(02:09:48):
of songs from the Credos but thereis a way sval would make it synct
to them without just sounding like apastiche of a copy of any other band.
And they hit them on tw manymoments. And again I think Serena
again, her character, her emotion, whether she's doing the kind of really
soft audible, like really sort ofbarely audible whisper on November at times,
or when she is just screaming herlike heart out, that again feels so

(02:10:11):
recognizable Svalbard. And I can't sayI would be like, oh, it
just sounds like Redo Tamassia. Yeah, like lights Out is a great example
in terms of the guitar work,because the song is always moving, right,
the pace has always taken you fromone place to another, but the
guitar melody is like constantly there alongsideit, snaking in all these different ways,
to wilk with you, to wilkwith eath, the weight another one.
They're everywhere just like screaming their waythrough it. And yeah, they

(02:10:33):
didn't invent guitar melodies like that,you know, explosions in the sky or
alsat whoever many of guys done beforethem. Yeah, but in the context
are songs that move and behave likethese ones. It just screams, you
know, specifically Serena's songwriting voice andher playing, and it is you know,
like be my tomb immediately stars like, oh yeah, there's Falba,
it's a pillar in the sand.When they erupt out again, that starts

(02:10:54):
as more kind of quite ambient moment, and then in the back of when
it does again burst out of power. That's so that is your that is
that just that Svalbard kind of eruptssome melody and emotion and again it always
it always lands whenever they do it. Yeah, my sort of overall impression
of this record is that it's ValvarSvalbard kind of maxing out on a few

(02:11:16):
things, pushing a few things asfar as I think they can say them,
but promising on some other stuff.So like for me, like you
was saying about being a bit brickwalled, I don't mind the production anymore,
but I don't really want it muchcleaner or more like tightly wound than
this personally. And I like thesort of softly softly material, but I
wouldn't necessarily want more of that inthe record. What I do like is

(02:11:39):
the sort of increasing presence of thosetwin leads which I do. I agree.
I think my favorite thing about thisrecord, and probably my favor thing
about Svalbard in general, is that. And it's because as much as other
bands have done it before, alot of the bands that are maybe part
of their peerage, you could goit sounds that you've all heard Death Heaven
and you're kind of taking their takeon and applying it to yourself. I

(02:12:00):
get the Feelingsvalbard have heard the originalbands like they've probably heard it Explosions in
the Sky or Tortoise or you know, Alcis whoever you want to take from,
And I think they've got their ownkind of identity for that sort of
thing, and I think they'd bewise to keep seeking that out because to
me, it's the best attribute ofthis record and them. Yeah, I

(02:12:22):
think musical development that I'm seeing maybesubtly, you know, things like these
guitars are kind of part and pastof for them. Now they seem to
do like we're saying before, theyseem to be pushing the kind of sorrowful
beauty over the rage like big time, and I think maybe that is particular
to the headspace of this album,rather than being a general trend. We'll
I guess have to see where theygo in future. But like the you
know, the clean singing parts inDefiance are as like outright angelic, to

(02:12:45):
use a cliche term, as they'veever been in Svalbard. Could dis bea
Svalbard's heavier but more melodic album.It could be, you know, it's
a bit more gutsy and those modernmetal grooves, like we said, but
they're also keeping on the extreme ofhow unashamedly pretty it wants to be,
and I like that that's still happeningwhile most that song is over a blastbeat
and it's so constantly propulsive at thesame time, it's a bit like the
astronoid effect of like being mega megabright, but not slowing down to do

(02:13:09):
it, just actually speeding up toachieve a different kind of exhilaration, which
on the song literally called Defiance,the song that isn't defeated. It's a
good effect. Maybe those genuinely newsongs for them is how to Swim Down,
which kind of does all like biggushing choir like they've done these big
post rock instrumental songs before. I'vealways been partial to the one that ends
the debut album, but not onesthat are quite this vocally emphasized. I

(02:13:33):
haven't quite connected with this album superstrongly as much as my favorite foil Bar
material. I think it's a combinationof it being a bit more consolidated than
it is finding the spark perhaps andthe subtle difference in production emphasis is not
where I live. But you know, so I don't think this is my
favorite this is my style Bard album, but some people who particularly resonate with
the content of this album will reallyclick with it. And I think for

(02:13:56):
me, it's appreciation of, like, you know, where they've come from
and how they've managed to maintain thatto this like slightly different venture, you
know, recognition that it's it's stillgood. Yeah, I mean I I
again, I yeah, because Idon't quite like as much as the last
one. But I do find myselfstill really connecting with this album and where
it goes, and it hits meon that emotional front, which is where

(02:14:18):
I still find myself loving every secondof it. I just I don't think
it's because it is more specific toone particular sound and mood, so any
way that you can talk, it'smore limiting. But they, I guess
they don't they like decorate that withso many more different sounds they can pull
from. But I do still thinkthis is you know, I see this

(02:14:39):
is going to really Cementse Svalbard asone of those like the way they fear
Us did for Ithaca, or timewill down level bury it for Rhodes Massie.
This will be the one where people, really, like on a wider
audience, will start to reach forthis as the kind of the Spoubard breakthrough
moment. Yeah, I kind ofI can't. I agree with both of

(02:15:00):
you, to be honest, Butfor me, I'd probably have this below
both of the last couple of records. I'd have to go back to the
early stuff to make an assessment onthat. But I do see a world
where this opens them up to morepeople, And I think that's fair because
they haven't really changed the songwriting perse and the production style, you know,
to a lot of people. Itmight not be a massive difference,

(02:15:22):
but it might just be that kindof that olive branch people need to make
the cross. I feel like I'vekind of bigged up too much how different
it sounds in terms of production,because it is just sort of a tighter,
cleaner, more studio version of whatthey were doing before. But when
I first heard this record, Ireally wasn't sure. But week on week
I've liked it more and more soby the end of the year, like

(02:15:46):
you know, who knows, ButI think this is more of a consolidation
than it is maybe like the BraveNew World. I don't know. Yeah,
there you go. The record iscalled The Wait in the Market is
my span By You go check itout. And now the rest of the
to think is going to be verymuch in the extreme or the underground at
least worlds. And first off,we're going to be talking about Kristin Hater

(02:16:07):
or the Reverend Kristin Michael Hater,to give her her full title, as
she has, you know, proclaimedherself here on her first album, leaving
behind the moniker of Lingog nota it'scalled Saved under that name, she cemented
herself as one of the most engrossing, provocative, captivating artists working in music

(02:16:28):
today, I think, and I'mgoing to assume most of you have heard
the lingerine note of albums if you'relistening to us, particularly garnering a wider
audience in the claim on twenty nineteen'sCalligular that's one of the heaviest albums ever
made. The follow up, Sinnerget Ready, I think is a near
masterpiece, just like an album witha staggering amount of depth and richness and
haunting power. I was speaking aboutall this, you Know earlier when we
did the you know, the Lastlingeror Note shows last weekend. That project

(02:16:54):
has been laid to rest, primarilyout of wanting to move past the kind
of constant association with trauma you hadto excize on those albums and moving into
something different. It's obviously not thatlong until we had more music from Christ
and Hater, though less than ayear since she actually announced you'd be retiring
Note, and obviously a week fromyou know fully doing it. She's fucking

(02:17:15):
wild, Like I have so muchrespect for her, but the length she
will go to and what she willput into making an album like this,
an album that compared to the LingeringNote albums, is meant to be a
bit easier, right, But shewould just drop things like, yeah,
I learned to speak in tongues forthis album, and I'm sorry, what
do you mean you learn to speakin tongues for this album? I mean
the argument that this is any easierthan the lingering note albums is completely absurd

(02:17:39):
to me is it's challenging in acompletely different way. But my note is
sort all loath. I have noidea how to review this, and I
have no idea why I even thinkabout it. It's fascinating, like can
you like you use like a normalalbum where you go track by track and
like look at things like that.It's such a just bizarre kind of piece
of performance art that is fascinated andkind of disturbed me in different ways than

(02:18:01):
Lingerig Noted did. Everything post LinguigNota has been no less beguiling than Linguiding
Nota, Like the whole way thiswas just rolled out, And for me,
Linguig Nota is one of those,like you say, artists that for
me, it's in the league oflike Crass or Throbbing Gristle or Swans or
anyone you want to names. AndI was there moment, Yeah, well

(02:18:24):
I wasn't, but in theory,like you were there at the time,
I was actually there, by theway, But like when you said I'm
moving on to something else, weknew it was gonna be interesting. And
I mean the Moniker it still soundslike a w w WE wrestler. It's
not going to and this record again, the presentation of it was kind of

(02:18:48):
like, oh, it's kind oflike a gospel record and it's just some
gospel staples and some originals. Ithought that would be nice, and it's
fucking uncanny. It's like, isa gospel album? Is avant garde?
Is it spoken word? Country?And Western? Like? Is it all
of them? Is it none ofthem? I do certain should like the

(02:19:09):
kind of the cheery gospel song andthen the second song after it will be
the other kind of like the otherside of the coin, but in that
dark Kristen Hater kind of oppressive atmospheresort of thing. And it's it's fascinating
that way. But yeah, Ihave Again, I'm still trying to work.
We've had this sound of like twodays and I'm still just scratching my
head at what this all means.Yes, she's just a different brand of

(02:19:31):
artists from anything we'll be talking about, like this is the only Haunted church
music album that we will review thisyear, and going into an album like
this, it's so much more youknow, nuanced than just like, oh,
how are this band going to growfrom their last one, like she's
done something that I've said a fewtimes like that I quite admire in that
she's deliberately not try to approach thiswith the mindset of like I'm writing a

(02:19:52):
magnum opus here, Like this isnot sinegette ready or caligular. It's a
step into another manner of creating intoand it's complicated to talk about, maybe
even more so than those were,because it's as much like a kind of
anthropological experiment here as it is,you know, a heavy album, because
like I guess, like a dumbdown, one sentence picture this album would

(02:20:13):
be. She's exploring this matter ofkind of faith and personal salvation, like
the title expresses through this recording ofChristian hymns, like they're on old tapes
dug up from the nineteen twenties.Like the making of this album is just
such a different proposition, Like yes, it's full of beaten up old tape

(02:20:33):
machines, integrating of decades old materialwas already on the tapes, chopping them
up, warping them, twisting them, melting them. It must have had
some fucking nightmare workshop in there makingthis thing in a literal physical sense,
and it feels like an album releasedin twenty twenty three comprised of dilapidated old

(02:20:56):
recordings from one hundred years earlier,filled with this dead hart. It it's
like a it's like a cursed videotape. This album it like like, okay,
when I took it play on this, I genuinely wasn't sure if my
headphones were working. It is themost extreme on the first trap, which
was and I was just like audiencebaiting moment because I was just just my

(02:21:16):
like not my bluety bedphants, andthey kept I was what was going on
my head back and then I waslike I'm gonna say, okay, I
got it. It genuinely fucked mefrom a bit at first, and there
are so many other moments like thatacross the record. Way. It's just
like the sort of speaking in tonguesort of thing which pops up every now
and then, and then obviously onthe closing track is the thing. But

(02:21:41):
it is a just unsettling, bizarrealbum so much. I kind of love
that that first song does what itdoes sonically in terms of like just literally
dropping out fucking resmooling the tape whatever. As you're listening to it like again,
it this album it feels deliberately contrivedto be like as grubby and warped

(02:22:01):
as possible, to make it feellike this artifact like even less than lingering.
Notice was is this something where you'rejust gonna go and enjoy the songs?
Right? Like that had extreme carepoured over the sonics. This does
too, but to make them worselike it's it's such a strange, disarming
bit of the experience to have thisfirst track do what it does well.
Ironically, she's singing I'm gonna getout, you know while I still can.

(02:22:24):
It's like a fucking warning at you. Listening to this for the first
time, it reminded me of thefirst time I saw skinn a rink,
where I was like, I waslistening to it and I was going,
that's weird, that's odd. Idon't know what's going on there? Why
am I scared? What's happening?Why am I alt? Like how that
film creeps up on you where youjust go like nothing's happened and I'm fucking

(02:22:46):
gonna have an anxiety attack. Thishas that sort of thing where I was
almost laughing for the first cop sobecause I was going, Nah, you
know, she's having she's having ajolly, she's turning the knobs up and
down, she's putting in these weirdlittle bits. And then for no reason
that was sort of I was consciouslyaware of. I was really disarmed and
kind of hypnotized by the record.And is like that that anxiety That's how

(02:23:09):
this album made me feel on firstlisten. Yeah, and I can't remember
the last last time I heard arecord that felt both so timeless and like
it couldn't have come up at anyother time than this, because it's it's
a hundred years of music kind ofmangled, so you couldn't have it any
earlier. But yet it feels kindof ancient. It feels weird that I

(02:23:31):
was listening to it on Spotify.Yeah, it doesn't seem like an album
you can download. Yeah. Yeah. The end ten seconds of that as
well, where you're just really loudbabbling on repeat lessens. It ends up
feeling like a horrible foreshadowing, likewhere the record. Yeah, there are
there are a couple of very differentbrands of track I guess on this that

(02:23:54):
I guess we'll talk about separately.The longer more there are tracks on this
that are recognizable very much and beinglike, if you follow the legalory NOTEO
material, you can go, yeah, that's that's Kristin Hater doing her you
know, that's how she kind ofapproaches writing a song in that way,
and stuff like like idumia, whichis probably an acronym something that I'm not
aware of, igue with you alwaysyea, and argue with you always as

(02:24:16):
well. Majorly they're built on thesame kind of like droning, heavy low
end piano progressions that a lot ofLingua songs were so for me, that
looks be into a kind of similarsimilar rhythm. I'm with it has this
particular scratchy sonic approach this time whereyou could hear the strings inside the piano
like rattling and shaking as the keysstrike them. It's so raw and unflinching

(02:24:41):
as a sound. And may thiscomfort and protect you is a song where
the piano chords that she's playing aregenuinely like beautiful right, and it's a
major key uplifting song, but ithas this rattling harshness to it in the
from inside the piano itself and thereverberations that the recording is picking up,
and it's the way the sonic approachof these things. On on the surface,

(02:25:05):
simple bits of music are kind ofthey unspool all these other layers of
it, like a Domeir as wellhas like something like twelve voices of hers
tracked in there, just chilling youto your core. The verse of that
is you know, I'll be withyou always. It's just the one you
know christin there, but in thiskind of weeping delivery, like almost this

(02:25:26):
spoken narration on this track and occasionallybreaking into these like really historyonic falsetto singing
parts, And that feels like thekind of you know, Linguis show that
I saw on the first night ofthe London Ones, just an almost kind
of stream of consciousness bareness to it. Yeah, I will always be with
you, I will be with youalways. I think might be the best

(02:25:48):
original song on the record, likegenuinely beautiful, and Linguig knows was capable
of that, but because it wasso arresting and cruel, you can never
really give yourself over to it entirely, I don't think. And this record
is, you know I've already said, alarming disarming in its own way,

(02:26:09):
but that sort of like released merefrain when that comes in. Yeah,
it's like a moment of where itfeels like a praise song and for a
few seconds at least, you're kindof unaware that you're listening to something like
this record. Like the thing thatthat song reminded me of was Current ninety
three have an album called The InmostNight, The Inmost Light, which is

(02:26:30):
sort of like an Uncanny Valley lullabyas an album where it's like it gets
so close to being genuinely soothing withoutbeing soothing that it's actually kind of distressing.
This song has that kind of qualityto it, and I think,
yeah, that's the exact sort ofthing I wanted going into this, and
one of the moments where I waskind of I got what I wanted and
I liked it, even if Ilike the things that surprised me as well.

(02:26:54):
Yeah, I like when she justgoes tapped into that kind of like
aged Americana, fire and Brimstone folkmusic, Like you know, all my
friends are going to hell lifting themelody from Warpigs. Sure, but you
know, for someone who has,you know, in person, one of
the most stunning voices you've ever heard. I love how Kristin is able to
sing ugly, like she puts thisharshness and this bite. Also times of

(02:27:16):
album sound like a kind of likeharsh Southern twang, but the way she
leans on that word hell like itis hellish, you know. And she
doesn't filter anything. She lets thingssound bitter and coarse. And then it
will flip between these long, likelarger compositions and these old timey traditional songs
with like there is Power in theBlood, just this really jolly fucking like
church circle song singing about the bloodof the lamb, Like it rides that

(02:27:39):
line between being like rallying and kindof upsetting. The fucking transition into precious
Low take my Hand after this likesix and a half minute piano song,
essentially like a June Carter Cash song. So and the actual recording sound kind
of degrades as well, and itcreates this effect on this album where it's

(02:28:00):
like her songs have almost been likerecorded over a tape featuring something older,
and occasionally they break back out inbetween the other things. There's like these
ghostly memories. In some cases that'sliterally true. She tweeted the other day
about some of the weird noises andshit that start. Some of the songs
literally being what was on the tapebefore they recorded on it, and they
have no idea who these people wereor what that sound was. But it's

(02:28:22):
a fascinating effect on this album,Like you've got this kind of abyss of
history kind of in front of youon it. Yeah. I mean though
those are like, oh like interludesongs, they're the problem ones on Unsell
me more because it it's so likethe whole Christianity thing is kind of like
a hurdle for this album for mein a way that like it is one
of those exums just like I don'tknow, because it's so like happy clappy,

(02:28:45):
isn't religion great and all that?And it genly kind of comes because
it's more creepier when then justoes againstthe darker stuff and because it sounds too
old and aged and you added soundslike those kind of the ghosts of the
part creeping out. It's just aconstantly disarming and like unpredictable journey to go

(02:29:05):
on. See Like I see whatyou're saying about the Christianity aspect, and
I'm not religious myself, but theinclusion of these like legitimate gospel classics in
the record, I think is oneof my favorite uses of interludes in as
long as I can remember. Andit's that thing where you know it has

(02:29:28):
got a kind of salvation element toit, but it's not like, you
know, Reba McIntyre or something likethat. It's not some cleanly clean cut,
you know, country radio thing.It's like you're stood outside. You've
come upon like a homemade chapel inthe middle of the woods, and there's
an impossible number of people inside itsinging these songs and you don't know why,

(02:29:50):
you don't know who they are oranything like that. And what struck
me was she doesn't actually do verymuch with some of these interludes like that.
If you listen to the originals,they're not that oldly different, And
I kind of love that because itkind of makes the reason that they're creepy
so much more like intangible. Andyeah, yeah, I think like this

(02:30:11):
is a really complex album to interrogatethematically, because like the Linger in that
albums were complex, but I thinkno matter how deep you decided to get
into those, you could very clearlytell, just on the top level that
it was a woman in you know, deep pain and that was just impossible
to ignore. And the matter ofhow further in you went, that just
rawness of the feeling was just sopalpable and was so unmistakable in what it

(02:30:33):
was expressing, that that had power. This album is a lot more overtly
you know, religious and about faith, and again personally, that's not something
that I have at all. Butinstead of being like, oh, those
were my dark albums, now I'mwriting big preachy songs about finding Jesus.
You know, she's not started writingCreed albums or whatever it's like for her.

(02:30:54):
This is kind of the positive album, but the process of getting there
is really fucking harsh and scary attimes, and I think it's really it's
really interesting to hear if you werea fan of the Lingo albums, because
like I said, like I WillBe with You always sounds a bit like
lingering out of tracks, but it'skind of the completion of that. It's
like deliverance from that thing that wasIt's finding the salvation, yeah, the

(02:31:16):
pain, and also that salvation doesn'tcome easily. Yeah, essentially what it
is like, and a lot ofit sounds like more like violently peeling away
from what was there on the Lingeralbums like I Know His Blood Can Make
Me Whole is another like the morebeautiful kind of positive songs, but her
delivery on it sounds like fucking shattered. And the way this album ends is

(02:31:39):
like the most upsetting thing I've heardin ages. The song itself, but
the piano part of the song andher singing it's calm, beautiful. Essentially,
it could be like an outro trackon any number of albums, right,
just yes, nice piano, Butthe way it is offset on those
tape machines by slowly throughout this likeeight minute track, the than the speaking

(02:32:00):
tones getting gradually louder, this rampingup and up of the speaking in tongue
sort of thing that you've been slowlydripped fair throughout it. It's like hearing
someone undergo some kind of violent exorcism, Like she's kind of letting go of
all of this stuff through this kindof like wordless babbling, and I guess
she found some kind of Catharsis outof that. But it's not a comfortable

(02:32:22):
deliverance, you know, It's it'snot presentable. It's not Oh, find
Jesus and all your troubles will bedone. It's ending your oh I'm feeling
better now album with that, it'ssuch a mad fucking move. Yeah,
because well this is because it's notjust you know, Christianian that she's keep
going to one of those like charismaticChristianity kind of like churches that do this

(02:32:43):
whole like speaking tongues excider of demonsand to that again, I think it's
worth hard. Again, this isnot anyway a like preaching this you should
do this thing, say anthropological explorationof like what would it be like to
be you know? Yeah, andshe like she subjected herself to that as
kind of like an explanation of canthat heal her? But the fact she

(02:33:05):
was so like I didn't like,willing, but so able to get caught
up in that moment of that insanekind of like babbling like it feels like
like that doesn't feel put on.That feels like she has surrendered herself and
let this whatever feeling it is takeover her. And it's deeply unsettling.
And again I'm not trying to likecondemn it. I don't know how to.
Again, this is why I don'tknow how to approach a lot of

(02:33:26):
this album, because I don't knowhow I feel about a lot of these
things where I'm like, is thata healthy thing for her to put herself
through? Coly, it's helped insome way if she's felt like this is
her like say, I'm getting betteralbum, but it's just it's bizarre.
And being in the recording session forthat, it's been like fucking you know
what? Would you say? Likeit might be the most uncomfortable thing Christ

(02:33:46):
and Hatter has ever recorded, becauseCaligula obviously is like absolutely immolating, but
at least I can enjoy it ina musical fashion. You know, this
is like stumbling on some fucking weirdinternet video that you wish you'd never seen.
Yeah, I'll tell you as muchas was saying, oh, it's
not a preachy, you know,happy clappy record, after this song,
I was hoping for her. He'sgot the whole world. I needed that,

(02:34:11):
because I've got to be honest.Like, when this came in and
it starts off as a sort ofinterpolation of this gospel classic again, I
was like, Okay, fine,the album called saved with an exclamation mark
is going to end on some kindof clean cut salvation after all of this,
Surely and then it's like it's aheart stopping way to end the record,
and like you're saying, maybe moreuncomfortable and difficult to listen to then

(02:34:37):
calligular on the album called Saved onthe Salvation record. You just think,
like this is like you going backon a promise, Christian hater, reverend
Christian hater and your tag team,because like genuinely like alarming. And again
I thought, having heard all ofthe Linguig nota records, I thought I
was primed for it. I thought, what's she gonna So that's gonna you

(02:35:00):
know, how can she take meback again when she was sort of the
benchmark for uncomfortable, disturbing, avantgarde music of the last decade. Yeah,
it's you know she I think onsomeone like Senna get Ready, you
could hear someone whose faith kind ofwas challenged in some way at least through
the concept of the record, youknow, by the extremity of you know,

(02:35:24):
what was happening to her in life. And I was thinking in terms
of this like name change Again.I don't know exactly how she's sort of
conceptualized it, but from a listenerpoint of view, this is another one
that feels like it could easily bea final lingering notor album before a shift
to something else, as much asit could be the first of something new,
because either way it's a clear conclusion, right or like a coder on

(02:35:45):
that whole story and experience. AndI have no fucking idea what that means
to the where she goes next,like whether she keeps the Reverend thing or
if that's just for this album.I don't know, But it's interesting because
it's ugly, right, Like,it's not just faith music in the most
generic palatable sense. It would befucking boring and not worth us covering to
do so if it was that She'salways tapping into these like complicated, unflinching

(02:36:09):
side of these things. And thisalbum is like as weird and upsetting as
it is someone finding some kind ofpiece. It's both of those things together.
It's all of those contradictions, andthe process of, like you know,
putting the sound together is massively differentto the Lingo album. So it's
I think it's reductive to hold thatas like any kind of bar this has
to clear. It's almost an exaggeratedextreme version of what I just said on

(02:36:30):
this Foubard album in terms of like, some people will really connect with it
on a deep fundamental level, andsome people will merely kind of appreciate it.
It's it's fascinating as a move,like as an artifact. Lingering Note
was already making albums that no oneelse would make. This one, if
not as fully fleshed out, iseven more completely on its own island.

(02:36:50):
I think. So she's done itagain in terms of it's an album that
you will hear absolutely nothing else likethis year, so in that sense it
is worth hearing. It's called Savedchristin Hater is of course her name,
the Reverend Michael kristin Hater. Allthat is in there, all right,
hustling along now, Prime Ordial HowIt Ends is album of seven of eight

(02:37:11):
in this particular episode. Is thishere because I am selfish And even though
it's not to the majority of peoplelistening, a new Primordial album is absolutely
going to be one of my personalhuge musical events of the year. Yes,
entirely. Primordial extremely long running undergroundmetal band peers of the second wave
Scandinavian black metal bands in vintage,but have never really fits specifically into anything,

(02:37:33):
to be honest, making them slightlyhard to sell to. People who
might know who Enslaved or Immortal are, might know who Candle Mass or Neurosis
are on another side, might knowwho man O War or Grand Magasar on
another. But this Irish band ontheir own with a thirty year career,
who sound like they kind of doall and none of that at the same
time, can slip in between withoutsecuring that same status in the brain.

(02:37:56):
But that alchemy has made them oneof heavy metal's great cult bands, and
for the people who adore them,one of the most special, of which
I count myself amongst, and wholeheartedlysay that Primordial are like a proper desert
island band for me. Happily,I'm not the only fan here for once,
so I don't have to do thisspiel again as if it's for the

(02:38:16):
first time. Elliott, you wereinquiring about a new Primordial album not too
long ago. Now we've got one. Can you, in fresh words that
make a change from me spouting offagain, tell us a little bit about
who Primordial are and why they're brilliant. I mean, you've essentially summed it
up, But just like one ofthe most idiosyncratic, unique and reliably brilliant

(02:38:37):
like metal bands I think Europe's everproduced like the Run of the Gathering Wilderness
to the Nameless Dead, We Deemptionat the Puritan Sand, which going back
down might be my favorite. We'rea great amount of fallen. I mean
that is like an all time runon the level of pretty much any extreme
metal band you want to name,and if they even are an extreme metal

(02:38:58):
band, I find it hard tosay. I have never understood the problems
people seem to have with his voice, and it's a very widely shared opinion
that I don't have any sympathy forbecause I think he's one of the best.
I think it's I remember a longtime we on this podcast by different
people, he got compared to ChinaMarino in that some people will just think

(02:39:20):
he has the best voice in theworld, and some people go, what's
that guy doing? And I thinkthat's that's the effect. So this is
my mensings album, Sam, thisis hand who are? They are part
of my DNA as a human being, Like I can go that far with
it. I do have primordial kindof in the downward arc of their career,

(02:39:41):
not in terms of the album beinglike, you know, dramatically diminishing
returns or anything. But like consciously, I think they and their fan base
are all aware that they're sort ofmoving towards the twilight years. Like I
know this album is called How ItEnds. They said. That's not specifically
a comment about the band immediately callingit quits or anything, but they are
in that phase where they're talking,you know, they're taking about like five

(02:40:01):
years in every album, they arevoicing the fact that they don't know exactly
how long they're going to be ableto keep doing this. Any album could
be their last. The run thatyou mentioned earlier of the Gathering Willness through
to Where Great Meta Fallen is thebest four album curve that to me,
That to me is like peak heavymetal, Like every note of those albums

(02:40:22):
means the world to me. Andthis and their last album ex alongst the
Ruins are kind of like the latertwilight phase of like having made those unbelievable
masterpieces and then they're continued to sortof exploring the aftermath of those. You
know, for however long they haveleft critically, they're kind of not beloved
anymore, Like they and the pressseem to have parted ways. There was

(02:40:43):
a time around the turn of thetwenty tens when Primordial had their moment of
anointment and now that's kind of gone. I know that part of that is
that, certainly Alan can be adifficult guy. But also these like last
two albums, they've not been aswell reviewed as the Golden Run. I
don't know how you feel about that, Eliott, just in terms of response
to their current let's say post classicfor whether that means output, I mean,

(02:41:05):
yeah, like Exile Amongst the Ruinsisn't as good, isn't as good
as the four that came before it, but then it's like not a lot.
Is like it's still a really strongpiece of work. And I think,
I mean, I've never really thoughtabout it before, but I do
wonder if the reason why Primordial clickwith me so much and I have this
relationship with them is because they werekind of getting annointed around the time that

(02:41:26):
I was becoming aware of underground metalas a thing, and so for the
sort of first half of the decadethey were really widely spoken about, and
where Great Men and I Fallen mightbe their most sort of acclaimed in terms
of the magazine press around the time, and stuff like Mattalhammer Awards and Ship
around that. Yeah, I thinkExile Amongst the Ruins is really great,

(02:41:48):
but it's probably a lower tier Primordiorecord. I back the idea that they're
sort of in the in the dipmaybe afterwards, yeah, I don't want
to say the more. Yeah,the slowing down to the finish line,
right, And like I said,I think they are conscious of that,
and they're like, let's do ourlatter career albums. I think excell Answer

(02:42:11):
the Ruins is absolutely brilliant personally,Like I never got any sniffiness around that
one, but it is. It'sslower and broodier how it ends. I
think I can feel a further almostlike Weathering I guess where like to the
Nameless Dead or Were Greater Menal Fall, and those two particularly are the records
I would stick in front of peopleto immediately impress them. Like these records

(02:42:31):
that they're making now are almost likekind of smoking ruins through which to kind
of wander through and really take timewith, having been with them through their
greatest moments. This feels like amassive record, right, Like it's an
hour and five minutes long. Whenthis ends up in my end of the
year list, which it will do, obviously, it's it's things like the
A Have album that I went madon that sound didn't quite get or you

(02:42:52):
know whatever, that it kind ofsits alongside because it's less about a minute
to minute explosiveness, shall we say, and more the feeling of like some
gradual odyssey that you're going on.That being said, there are some fucking
crazy moments on this where I wantto swing my T shirt around my head.
Let's stop faffing around, Elliott.Do you like this album? Sam?

(02:43:15):
What percentage of it were you boredby? Parts of this album are
great, there's a lot. There'sa lot on this album like I don't
want to like because I don't thinkthis is a bad album by any means.
Just the first time you listen toa Primordio album. Yes, this

(02:43:35):
is the first time I'm audio albumI've listened to. Yeah, I really
like how grand it sounds. Ithas that kind of feeling of like the
end of Days Armageddon, Like likethe whole this ends, it feels a
much kind of like an apocalyptic likeArmageddon sort of album. And they they
conjure that feeling really evocatively across thewhole album, And I like that You

(02:43:58):
know, you can kind of existin this world for an hour and five,
you know, you know the GregBingo earlier, the equivalent Alan Averill
Bingo is every time you mentioned thefall of Rome, it's the constant decline
of civilization, empires collapsing. There'sa lot of primordial bingal going on.
Similarly, I love it. Ilike plows to russ swords to dust.

(02:44:20):
I think it's fucking excellent. Ithink that song is really great. And
I don't know if it's because itcomes earlier in the album that I wasn't
fatigued by something else that might mightbe better. It's just there is just
I basically I was I really likethis, I like this, like this,
and then it kind of slowly startedtrudging along to the finish line,

(02:44:41):
and I was kind of I waslike, I could have done with this
finishing about twenty minutes ago. Yeah, he's the thing you briefly mentioned the
first song they released, which againI'll get to eventually, but the first
song they released on this was theclosing track on it, and you were
like, yeah, as I say, it's kind of difficult. This is
not the primordial album I would putin front of as you know. In
my notes, I do say theclosing track is one of the best songs

(02:45:03):
on the album. I do thinkto Try bactually has a norther and that's
really triumphant. So yeah, assaid, I think this is an album
even more than the last one.It's an album where existing fans of Prime
Audio will find a lot to appreciatehaving gone on a journey with them.
More so than being like, yeah, check this out, I would very

(02:45:26):
much point you towards the ones thatwe're fucking you know, yeah, you
going on but putting my you know, my own hat on here. The
Prime Audio. Again, they're suchgloomy bastards, but when they set their
minds to it, they are capableof being the most rousing heavy metal band
on the planet bar none. WhenI got sent this record, I was

(02:45:48):
so glad that the title track,How It Ends was not the first single,
because hearing it for the first time, pressing play on this, my
soul left my body. Like whenI first heard this, I was struggling
to even digest the rest of thisrecord because I just wanted to keep playing
that track. Sh that song.I'm so glad you mentioned it. That

(02:46:09):
is one of the best songs ofthe year, like total, they're the
best, man, they're the best, But it's unreal when they put their
minds to that and go, yeahfucking let's go oh my god. Yeah
that's cool because this, like yousay, this album like the last one,
if you were to kind of characterizeit, you would say maybe like

(02:46:30):
a meaner, lower, more rumbly, like maybe more esoteric, primordial record,
like like you say, less momentsof or fewer moments of, you
know, stand up and shout andmore kind of parts contributing to a great
hole. But that first song thatlike, is this how it ends?
No process songs and no voices indescent? How did it feel when they
called your name and you stood inline for the last time? Shure like

(02:46:54):
can I Go to War? Islike the fact that the diction the power
in that performance, that this ishow language dies on yeah time, it's
like, so he keeps taking itup and up throughout the song is unbelievably
stirring. So that's why I don'tget where you were saying people didn't like

(02:47:15):
his vocals, because I like,I think he's a for this sort of
thing, a really good vocalist.In my life. It's like the Tuna
anything. They're wrong, right,He's the best heavy world I'm not,
you know, the most first person, but for this sort of thing,
I don't understand why if you likeepic heavy metal that you'd have a one
with this guy's vocals. They fitthe role and whether he's doing the singing

(02:47:35):
or the streaming it again thing michempaintsabout. I just got a bit fatigued
with this album. Looking objectively,he's doing what a heavy metal vocalist should
be doing to a really high standard. Yeah. So this song, like
the pure heavy metal lead. Atthe start of it, I was scratching
my head for a bit trying tothink, like, what epic metal song
from the eighties does that sound like? And then I realized it was the
first track on Serpent and Spirit byEarn. But it so slowly glides in

(02:47:58):
then, like it's Celtic metal paceon like a massive, grandiose scale.
The way they make these rabble rousersthat feel like shit kickers as much as
they do pieces of like heartfelt heavymetal theater is just like it's crack to
me. The drummer does that thingwhere he breaks up the rhythms with those
little like extra beats are kind ofthe dude da do do do do Da

(02:48:20):
do do dah back in punching,and it just throws my body into a
particular kind of familiar overdrive. Andas said the way Alan keeps escalating that
vocal and then hands it off tothe solo part right at the end.
I saw Primordial a lot in likethe mid twenty tens, and they quickly
became like my absolute favorite band togo and see live. They'd always open

(02:48:43):
with the title track of the albumat the time, where greater Menals Hall
Them, which is fucking perfect.Similarly, here this is a world of
a song from one of my alltime favreite bands that is like the live
classic that I want to see themdo. Then the feeling of kind of
settling in for a larger journey setsin. But because they are an extremely
rousing, epic heavy metal band therebut a lot of this album is about

(02:49:03):
really unfurling plasta rustles the dust.I'm glad that you liked it. I
mentioned the drummer before he does thesereally idiosyncratic rhythms because they're built on a
lot of kind of particular timings takenfrom Irish trad music. That's something I
quite likes about it is that Irishf gives it a very it's a clear
identity these songs have and then likethat's that's pretty cool. It feels like,
you know, Irish of like traditionallike fight songs and all that sort

(02:49:26):
of stuff. Yeah, but it'snot like sometimes people call primordial folk metal,
and that gives people completely the wrongidea because they think it's like corpora
clanny and it's absolutely not. Thereare no fucking like you know, jig
flute inside. It's more they've takenthose some of the rhythms and they've incorporated
it into a very particular kind ofextreme metal riffing style. And that on
that song, that weird like flowingtom beat around the kit lining up with

(02:49:50):
that kind of like quasi seafaring sortof earworm riff. But then it keeps
like it does this switch where itgoes really thunderous on the double bass and
Alan just goes really like into thegutter all dirty parts of his voice,
but it keeps locking into that kindof firm one two three, one two
three. It makes it feel likethis really kind of hypnotic back and forth

(02:50:11):
that's really regimented and firm that ALANthink kind of play around with, like
a bit of a vocal sandbox.Yeah, I think the one two of
plows to us sous to dust andwe shall not serve one into the other.
They have their moments of light,but those are so like low and
grumbling and mean, and yeah,I think, like like you say and
your fingernail songs, that's it.And after the first song it is a

(02:50:33):
great reset because I feel like howit ends it could have come later as
maybe a different kind of climax,but openly with that and then going into
these it's like, Okay, thisis the world you're going to be in
now, because for most of thisrecord, sparing for a couple of moments,
it might be maybe one of themore patient or patients testing primordial records.

(02:50:56):
And if you're not in for thelong haul, I can see why
that would be a bit alienating.But I do think as a listening experience,
I would have this over certainly thelast one. I didn't like you
say it, just as a Primordialfan, there are more than enough like
standout moments for me throughout. Wesha'n't serve as like one of the nastiest
Primordial songs in recent years. Andthat's again one where like particular to them,

(02:51:20):
the riffing with that celtic strumming patternyou can hear there, but it's
like a vicious tornado a song likethey have that kind of Celtic feel,
but it's like majorly claustrophobic and unsettlingwhile also being this kind of big call
to arms that has like the mostbestial guttural metal voice that you could still
call singing and not some kind ofdeath growled, you know, talking about

(02:51:43):
the satanic fist of empire. Thereit goes again, that's p proprimarly,
But then that song begins with abig go and I can't like say when
a song does that that you're gonnawin me over with that. Like you
should listen to the title track ofWhere Greater Menals Fallen. It has the
second best go in all the music, right after ye Once at a Damnation.
Once I saw those two things performedback to back, it was great,

(02:52:03):
but like, yeah, they're kindof extreme songs there like that.
It's not just like, oh yeah, well, this is the one who
blast beats and some icy black metalriffs. It's kind of strange and imposing
and rallying all these weird things atonce. On the back end, one
of my favorites is All Against Allbecause that seems to represent Primordial at their
most like genuinely oppressive and a littlebit unhinged. Like it's this doesn't really

(02:52:26):
sound like anything they've done before,does it. It's like this weird,
mid paced, unforgiving sort of slugto the face. Well yeah, and
after like that comes in, aftercall of Call to Snounos, Call of
Krunos, I think maybe yeah,they can look it up, which is
like six minutes long, and it'sbarely a song because it's sort of like
one idea almost for a piece oflike this mantra. And then when All

(02:52:46):
against All comes in in that fourto four, it's kind of cruel because
I heard that. I thought Ahwere going to have the Primordial banger?
Is this going to be like rockyou like a hurricane has done by a
Primordial? Yes? Please? Andthen it's nine minutes of like merciless,
cruel, seething, furious metal playedlike it's just trying to get the arm

(02:53:07):
hairs to stand on end. It'sfucking like it's so sinister. Yeah,
Like Alan goes into some kind oflike fucking violent tramps on that song,
like he's he's arguably my favorite heavymetal singer, and a lot of that
has to do with the kind ofhow it ends, you know, rousing
stuff and the use of melody.There's a fair bit on this hour where
he slipped into almost like a kindof horror mode and he twists himself and

(02:53:28):
he's like really unsettling ugly tones.All against All, he's like this kind
of twisted harbing and like kind ofone minute is the most like tom Ju
Warriors ever sounded. The next he'sjust throats singing. See. All against
was one of the ones I Istruggled a bit with. I did like
found it just a bit and likeI get because it is intense and evil,

(02:53:48):
but like I was, Okay,he's throat singing now and it's going
on for nine minutes. This wasthat was when I was like, you're
not down for minutes throat singing?Yeah, Like I again is a personal
taste when I can hold my handsfrom that. But it was that was
all of the songs that did maybekind of go like I was looking at
a watch and kind of checking tho. I was like, oh cool,
they're still five minutes to go.You know you can, you can write

(02:54:09):
this up now. But that doesme. I'm not a hold it against
Primordial. I love that song again. It doesn't sound like any You couldn't
swap that in with any other songsin their old albums, which I think
for a lot of extreme metal bandsin kind of their era, you couldn't
say about. And the riff isso hard when it like just lundon low
End and the musicians, I thinkyou can tell they've being together a long
time because they create so much tensiontogether, like the guitar harmony part in

(02:54:33):
the middle of Weesel Not Serve,and how it kind of swells to a
bursting point over this like long sectionso that at the right moment you know
it can burst and it just goesso metal in the aftermath of that,
like pure clenched fist in the air. At their heart, they are like
a feeling an extreme metal band seemskind of incongruous because at their heart they're

(02:54:56):
like an epic metal band. Ifyou were going to pin them down to
a single biggest influence Bathory, butit's like the point where Bathory themselves had
turned into this kind of like massive, epic heavy metal band. But it's
not out and out, you know, eternal Champion, fantastical sword swinging heavy
metal. It's a band ensconced inincredible amounts of gloom, an immense shadowy

(02:55:16):
darkness that you know fits perfectly wellwith My Dying Bride or Paradise Lost,
and then they have these spurts ofblack metal venom, all done with this
Celtic kind of feel that goes throughjust everything that Kieran plays on guitar and
Signon plays on the drums. It'sso idiosyncratic where there's no band where you
can go yeah, they're just doingthat, or you know, there's no

(02:55:37):
bad we are that that really scratchesthe itch of like a young Primordial or
whatever. It's just such an individualmix and refraction of elements, and Primordials
earliest albums aren't even their best onesbecause it took them like a decade plus
to age into figuring out how thoseelements were best sound and how those people
could grow into perform in them.There's an interlude song on this which is
track four, and there was asong on the last album called Stole and

(02:56:00):
Years, which I know was originallymeant to be an instrumental until Alan insisted
on putting lyrics on it and singingon it, which was absolutely the right
call. That's a really special song. But this almost feels like Keer and
the guitar is getting his way ofwhat it was meant to be, just
like pure traditional folk melodies through hisheavy metal guitar, and it's gorgeous and
it's like this big burst of lightin the record. But it's really masterful
how they then switch that moved justso instantaneously and cleanly when it moves into

(02:56:22):
Pilgrige the World's End, which isone of the most doomed sounding songs they've
ever written. Like that's the songabout you know, refugees and people leaving
their homelands to cross the sea insearch of somewhere new and how kind of
like dangerous and unsure that is.And it's not an intense song in extreme
metal terms, right, but it'sso evocative. Yeah, that's one of

(02:56:43):
the songs I read again. Idid really like that song because it is
very I say very evocative, andthat kind of like doomed, apocalyptic kind
of sense it looms over it ina way that is is very menacing,
and there's a real feeling of compellingdrama to the now arrative he's doing from
it. And I was like,that was what I was like. An

(02:57:03):
extreme metal band if you wherever you'relabel them is like I, I don't
till you know whether they level isextreme metal band, heavy metal whatever,
but they do sound very distinct andthen they and I do agree from just
basic on this alone, they don'tfit a typical extreme metal mold. The
guitar riff of that song alone feelslike storm clouds gathering overhead and restless,

(02:57:24):
you know, rocky seas It capturesthe emotion of that feeling so vividly,
and that's the kind of thing that, like, you know, that makes
Primori who they are, And yeah, it's it's doing these massive, fist
pumping heavy metal bangers like that firsttrack alongside these just unbelievably immersive pieces of

(02:57:45):
as you say, kind of storytellingthat that song sounds seasick to me,
Like, yeah, that riff aresuch a queasy quality but sad as well,
not offsetting, but you know,upsetting. I think that city is
primordial, even if you don't knownecessarily what the songs are about, you
do get the essence of what thestory they're trying to tell is, and

(02:58:07):
they've always been able to do that. And like you say, I mean
you mentioned Bathory another great example inthat epic heavy metal or epic Viking metal
way, like Hammerhart, those aresort of records. I don't know anything
about the region or the history ofthat thing, but I listened to One
Road as a Bay and I feelI feel it. It's always been the
same thing with Primordial where well likeRedmership the Purist in Sand as a record,

(02:58:31):
you know, being about the financialcrash, you think, how could
a metal band make a record?How can they make that compelling and feel
epic and swelling, and you know, just it's so it's too real and
too tangible, like it's too depressing, and they're just among the best storytellers
in metal ever. And then havinga song like Death, Holy Death,

(02:58:52):
which is one of my favorites.Again, like you can talk out the
chemistry earlier, but like having thatarrangement set really let Adam's voice fly in
that moment, like he does ita lot over the record. But having
an arrangement that's that sort of tightand tort in the verses. It makes
him stand out all the more.And if you are of the right opinion
that he's one of the best metalvocalists ever, giving him that moment again

(02:59:16):
towards the end of the record,it's just like it's again. It's just
magic again. Yeah. Like thisalbum, it really sets me into a
state of mind of kind of goingsomewhere, you know, like it's about
it's going at a really steady pace, but it conveys a sense of traveling
somewhere as long as it maintains thatfullard motion and Death Holy Death is the
most like getting a tiny rowboat andhead down river to somewhere massive and scary

(02:59:39):
that you could conjure up from justlike a riff, you know. And
the guitar playing is so expressive.That solo in Pilgrimage the World's End is
so full of sorrow and desperation,and then they put in that almost like
post metal sense of ramping up intensitybecause you know, I mentioned it with
that we Shall not serve lead part, but Nothing New under the Sun feels
like one of the less kind ofimpressive tracks on the album. It takes
a little while to get where it'sgoing, but the last like two minutes

(03:00:01):
and there's hammering on this screaming guitarpart so heavily that gets more and like
head consuming every new second that itgoes by, and that's feeling of hammering
on the same rhythm throughout the songends up feeling like this massive bit of
catharsis the ending of all against allus that as well, which you know,
reaches up to hit that kind ofterrifying world crumbling down metal crescendo that

(03:00:24):
they perfected on something like as RoanBurns. And like the album, it's
not quite as edited well edited astheir very best, Like you know,
those eight minute songs can feel absolutelyseamless. I do get on this one
the sense that when it's got towhere it's going, it feels right,
you know. I think Call toSnunos is probably the only song where I
would shave a couple of minutes offit because it doesn't have that much escalation

(03:00:46):
across the runtime. It feels likeit's just meant to sort of sit in
one place more where it arise onthe record, it's like, oh cool,
what's this kind of like full onlike proper Irish trad shamanic ritualistic chant
and then usually primordialize. They endon a massive epic or a doomy one,
right like Death of the Gods onRedemption. It's unusual for them to
end on one of the bangers.And Victorian that has a thousand father comes

(03:01:09):
along and it's like, after allthat hard work sticking through things, being
in your tiny boat, lost atsea or whatever, you get this fucking
thin lizzy Celtic metal fire starter andthat's like the perfect way to get into
probardy. Really, you'd you havethese long winded doom ones, just fucking
absolute rasia. That is the onethat pours me back in at the end
of record. How could it gowith that riff? Yeah, is a

(03:01:30):
banger. It's got a really likesolid heavy metal gallop to it, that
kind of clot that instrumental passage ithits toward towards the end, just like
great epic heavy metal songwriting. Andlike I say, triumphant is the sound
of that song. I mean,if this proves to be the last Primordia
record, and there's no confirmation thatit is or anything yet, but if

(03:01:50):
that's the case, I do kindof like that they're ending on something a
bit more upbeat as a legacy,because, like you say, having that
pattern of really closing their records onreally downer, epic, super heavy songs.
On not one hand it might feelright to end your Swan song that
way, but I do just likethis record, considering it's one of their

(03:02:13):
more meditative, patience testing records toreward you at the end like that.
They're nice guys deep down. Yeah. And what I was saying earlier about
the use of melody as opposed tothe more kind of skin crawling vocals that
yet a lot of on this Eversince that song dropped, I've had this
part stuck in my head, fromthe ending section the make your pilgrimage to
the go of last, that wholepart, and that just hands like perfect

(03:02:37):
heavy ut of melody to my ears, just kind of in writing and the
delivery to really sell it. Thiswon't be one of their most remembered records,
but I am at the stage where, like every new album from one
of my favorite bands is a thingto be treasured, and this thing,
for the duration of its sixty fiveminutes, envelops me, unsettles me,
at times, chills me to mybones at times, and gives me a
couple of songs that fire me upto no end of it or fucking jump

(03:02:58):
on some heads. So like ifif you listen to this and go,
I quite like the sound of that, but I'd like it to be a
bit less ponderous and more instantaneous.Go and check out one of the records
I mentioned earlier, like they areGod t here. As a fan,
I'm locked in here. Yeah,yeah, I feel that if this is
the fifth best Promordial record at Max, I would have it lower than that.

(03:03:20):
And it's yeah, just because yeah, this catalog for me is like,
you know, it's the shit.Yeah, I look at this,
I think like this is a strongeight at least, and I can only
give it number five at most.It's oh, they're quite good, Yes,
Okay, final album and hopefully thiswill wake some of us up.

(03:03:41):
Maggot Hart is the last band thatwe are going to be talking at about.
Their record is called Hunger. Literally, before doing any intro, I'm
gonna whip right at you guys.This album's fucking sick, isn't it.
Do you think this album fucking rips? I love this well in I've never
heard of them before, stuck iton in them. When I clocked that
it's you know, like tied intoGrave Pleasures and all that, I was

(03:04:03):
like, oh, hell yeah,here we go. Yeah cool is standing
shit, it's a lot more thanthat, though. This is so oh
my god, it's so rad Elliott. Yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm
leaving that in. That's an explanationof excitement. Uh yeah, this is
very cool. I like this.Yes, So this is another of kind
of of the more underground picks,one that's a serious contender for me.

(03:04:26):
I love this band. I've broughtthem onto the show before. I think
it's when we did the Beast MilkAlbum Club this year, Elliott, I
asked you if you've never heard thisband, and I was like, wait
till their new record drops. Doyou see why I was waiting for you
to hear this now? Yeah?Yeah, yeah, no, it does
make sense because like this year hasbeen a bit of a revelation with all
of that stuff, because I kindof I love the Hex Vessel and I

(03:04:50):
like the Grave Pleasures. Off Ididn't know beatmell and it's just like every
time I find something, You've guidedme to the next spot, and I
was like, I bet this albumsfucking city. It's like where's you hear
Maggot Heart and a kind of morelike scratchy tribally. I wouldn't say it
necessarily nastier, but more scratchy versionof that sort of thing with comparable song

(03:05:11):
power up points. That's quite nice. Yeah. So maggot Heart is the
project spearheaded by Linea Olsen. Shehad played guitars in bands. She did
some brilliant work with The Oath andGrave Pleasures as well. She wanted to
start her own sort of solo bandinitially, and then even though I love
what she gave to those bands,I'm really glad that she did leap,
splinter off and do something else becausewhat they've developed together is so awesome.

(03:05:33):
You know the way people talk aboutthe Dirty nil As, this three piece
who are just like absolute fire whenthey play, I feel like Magotheart are
that for angry goths, Like theyjust crackle with this energy that is insane.
The drummer Uno used to be inin Solitude, who we did the
sister album Club, one of thebest bands their generation. Elliot As You're
saying guiding and i'ma have to ask, have you heard sister By in Solitude?

(03:05:56):
No? No, I have heardthat. Yeah, okay, it's
very good. Yeah, And he'sable to bring this kind of like heavy
metal post punk dance energy into this. The bass is out of fucking control
so good. They make these likefiery, abrasive tunes with really weird,
sharp experimental guitar playing on these likebangers that feel like they're spat out at

(03:06:18):
you. They rock an unseemly amount. I will say their last album,
Mercy Machine, absolutely brilliant. Itwas in my top twenty that year.
I would sort of expect them tokind of just like have found a sound
and sort of keep at it.I wasn't expecting them to get immediately as
weird again as they have with thisand bust it open and its possibilities,
which is even more exciting. Thisis like a rad, metallic post punk

(03:06:39):
album that also gets really freaky.Yeah. I mean, like the post
punk thing is starts a little bitoverdone. So whenever I'm STI hitting on
a new post punk alm, I'malmost a bit cautious, But then planning
this is like, ah, yeah, this is you know, it's called
here like modern post punk stuff,but it's sound a bit dangerous and weird

(03:07:03):
and also just have bangers. Imean like LBD is one of the best
songs of this year. I meanthat song is fucking outstanding, and I
mean the coolest sound. Like theamount of big band horns on this that's
new, that's new for this album. Let me tell you, I didn't
fucking see that coming. I'm wearingon the brass like, yeah, never
did I hear Maggot Hart and go, you know what, this really needs

(03:07:24):
brass sections. Turns out it didfall on me. I think it's it's
a lesson because I agree something thatthe post punk thing is kind of running
its course a bit where it's likeif a banders a big, scratchy bass
and some trembling drums, you know, they get to be an enemy like
it does feel. I think forme, there's always a clear differentiation between

(03:07:46):
that kind of enemy thing and likedangerous underground post punk, which is that's
and that's what That's why I gotthe moment I hit playing this was like,
oh, yeah, this is howit should be. Yeah, because
it's like when you put on KillingJoke or Dead Can Dance or the Jesus
Lizard or whatever. You're not goinglike this is kind of you know,
like this at BBC introducing stage atreading, that'll be quite nice. It's

(03:08:09):
like you're looking around some sweaty clubwondering who's gonna try and start a fight
with you. Has that kind ofsleazy, scratchy, kind of sadistic energy
to it, but pop songwriting underneathall that barbed wire that's so fucking catchy,
like this shadow and looking back atyou as a one too. To

(03:08:31):
me, that's my favorite bit onthe record. And just the actual composition
at the core of it. There'sno element of like style over substance,
which I think so many post punkbands go for. Now. The hooks
are just like expertly penned and kindof effortlessly so that dance groove on lbed,

(03:08:52):
the drum part from Uno ages purelike dance rock gold, and the
disco beat like yeah, and thebrath just slides in like the coolest thing
of the world. It's such abanger, like that's so slick. You
hear some of these more mainstream bandstrying to do these like dance floor songs
and recognize how flat they are whenyou hear the pop in that and then
it kind of it's quite a longsong and the horns come back in the

(03:09:15):
second half of that little cheeky butabout it. It's it's so fun,
but it's still like an abrasive,spiky song. It's it is quite long,
but it imagines the balance is likeswaggering rock and roll call with like
dance sort of fun but having againjust menace and and like that again it
feels like you might want to fightyou at any moment. And that is

(03:09:37):
where like that dangerous aspect to it. That's not like so many songs I
mean like this Shadows number, whereagain the guitars that actually like stab away
at you and it sounds violent ina way that's so few like the punk
is, they're just as much likeyeah, like this bat they carry themselves
with the energy of a far farbigger band. And by that I don't

(03:09:58):
mean, oh, they write reallybig songs, they should be massive,
et cetera. That's why. Butwhat I mean is they just sound fucking
braggadocious. Like the way they playfeels like it's brimming with just like swagger
and attitude. Nil by mouse basGrouth is just like so driving and persistent
and repetitive, and as a frontperson, Linnea commands attention on this record

(03:10:22):
to an alarming degree, Like thisrecord barely feels like it can contain her.
I think she might be one ofthe coolest people in music right now.
Like the amount of attitude and idiosyncrasythat drips off everything she writes and
her delivery, like she feels likeshe fully breathes this where you know,

(03:10:43):
these songs are like extensions of her. She's got this kind of like New
York City punk transplanted to cold warBerlin feel to her, and it just
fucking has this barbed stream of consciousnessintensity that is so transfixed. I mean,
yeah, so like the close backparas when you get to that there

(03:11:03):
power power sac that chart, butat the end, that's good. It
spat out with so much menace.But again, just the presence on it,
You're like, she's just fucking likea rock star, like just such
a charismatic vocalist. And again that'sone of the things that I just really
gravitate towards her as a vocalist onthis album, just so much career she
does these like unconventional chorus like Neilby Mouse is brilliant, but it's subtle.

(03:11:26):
It's just really slick on that,and the flip side, the parts
where the intensity goes haywire, likethis shadow really intense and catchy, snapping
at you, you mentioned looking backat you, out of control. On
that, I feel like it's justclattering along, like like lashing out at
you madly. Like the rhythm sectionis so turbulent on it, just like
so busy and claustrophobic, and Linneajust takes us as a foundation to just

(03:11:48):
like rant and rave on it.And it's like an example of like a
genuinely slightly terrifying vocal performance without havingto use any actual extreme vocals, you
know. And I think it makesthe whole record a lot more atmospheric,
which again is something that a lotof these bands overlook and you don't often
get the kind of sleazy rock starquality and the sort of atmospheric you could

(03:12:13):
go on a walk at night listeningto this edge And I don't even know
if it's something they're intentionally going for, But like nil by Mouth, which
again another one of my favorite songs, like that, just the guitarics are
so good on that song, Ifeel like I'm walking around inside until the
light takes us, like when they'regoing on buses and trams and stuff around
like nighttime Gothenburg. It's just gotthis sort of like intangible like nighttime spooky,

(03:12:41):
yeah, like you know, brutalistcity quality to it, which again,
it just adds a whole other dimensionto the record that it doesn't even
really need, because, like yousay, the rock star component is so
convincing. Yeah, like they makestreet rap records. You know, she's
got one of those distinct songwriting voicesin heavy music right now, I think

(03:13:01):
like there's no sense of life.Yeah, that will swap in and out
with another personality really easily, likeit's all her. You know, there's
Patty Smith and Susie Sue and soon in there, but it never feels
like a kind of emulation of somethinglike a lot of that kind of you
know, just gothy post punk stuffdoes. It's just this extremely unfiltered,
overtly feminine but with all of thesharp edges still attached, like extreme bite.

(03:13:24):
She's one of the best character guitaristsworking together. Like all of these
bizarre, jagged but catchy ringing guitarlines I feel like putting pins in your
eyes, like the solo in thisshadow. Then it's like fucking behave to
ooze charisma like that through your guitarplaying is such a rare thing. And

(03:13:46):
then you get the three them justlocking in together just having that like staccato
punk rock fucking thump. It's likeproper rock band chemistry. I mean like
even though on the chemistry thing somelike concrete soup where it almost goes it's
like a like free form kind ofjazz stuff mixed in with like the more
regimented sort of dance bits, andthat just feels like they're so in singing

(03:14:07):
with each other where they can likefree up and kind of do what they
need to do, and then atthe staff it just lock back in and
it's so just really creative and howthey like do these different parts and where
you get like a guitar that's kindof like a bit of a freak out
moment, but it never feels likejarring or out of character with out step
with the rest of the band.Well, yeah, and Scandinavian Hunger as

(03:14:28):
an opener was fucking mad in itjust like it sounds like they're playing it
for the very first time, andthey're so jazzed at the thought that they've
written this song. Like there's somuch pomp and buzz and a great song
at the heart of it. Again, like for me, as someone going
to basically blind for that to bethe opening statement, it's quite the sort

(03:14:50):
of like slap around the face andpat on the back. Yeah, it's
like properly fucking pulled the trap doorout from under a hole of stinking bass
and like centered on the Lenaia's deliveryas well as it's kind of clear anchor
that's going to revolve around like thesong loses its shit at the moment when
she does the scanning navy and hungerand like the mad panting and her delivery

(03:15:11):
across a lot of this album andthen like these you know, further ex
experimentations of what the template of Magahartis. Like the pure post punk stuff
goes to the last album for it. This has the stuff like Archers,
which is just like you know,this bubbling combination of grand piano and then
this like little buzz of constant tremloguitar that makes it feel really uneasy.

(03:15:31):
And again when the horns come in, Yeah, the melody just like Lifts.
It's got this kind of rad noirjazz flavor. Again, I didn't
predict this band having and Lenea mightnot seem like a traditional singer, and
she's reached, she's all barbed wire, but she dictates the flow and the
intensity of that song so well,like when she reaches that you're a one

(03:15:52):
shop sniper refrained right at the end, it's like it's grown so much to
that point. If you like yourgoth and your post punk and those vibes,
but you want something that doesn't soundlike pastiche or even just recreation,
like it's too heavily indebted things.This just if something that's actually kind of
taking those sounds and those vibes intothe future. I think this band up

(03:16:13):
absolute stars. The record is calledHunger by Maggot Heart. They're playing the
black Heart next month and I'm desperateto go, even though I can't really
that. Yeah, I can't reallyswing London then, but they've not been
to the King like five years andthey look fucking wicked live. Check them
out. They're called maggot Heart.That is a lot from us. In
probably the last Enormous Reviews episode ofthis year. Obviously, we will be

(03:16:35):
back in November with more, butyou know it's maybe a slightly more lower
profile episode. Again, that doesmean that we have some more cool things
like that to shine some lights on. Thank you very much for listening to
all of us. I'm sure you'vegot opinions on the Creeper album, the
Bullen album, whatever it may be. I would love to hear your opinions
if you check out the Maggot Heartalbum or the Christen Hater album. What

(03:16:56):
the fuck do you make of thatprimordial whatever it may be, let us
know. Thank you very much forbeing with us. As said earlier,
if you go to patron dot comslash that's note Mattle, not only will
you find the Allison Chain specially wegot on the go, we've got our
various album club packs. The latestat club pack was our Damnation one,
which we'll have coming up in thereviews in a couple of weeks time.

(03:17:18):
But we will have Halloween conversations ona musical front and a filmic front coming
to you fairly soon. So thankyou very much. Hop over there,
hop back over here next week.Cheers

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