Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
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We are in love at our best in the weed consciousness.
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And now, ladies and gentlemen, it's time for Angel Quest
with KARENI on Hudsonliverradio dot com.
Speaker 10 (02:16):
Well, hello, everybody, Welcome to the Angel Catch Show. I'm
Karen Noe, author of Weak Consciousness and Your Life After
Their Death. Today's guest is my son, Tim Nowie. Tim's
currently a graduate student in religious studies at Rutgers University
with a focus on biblical studies, and he leads regular
classes on a course in miracles. In today's episode, we'll
(02:40):
be diving into a heartfelt conversation about activism, what it means,
how it aligns with spiritual principles, and how we can
all make a difference. We are the ones we've been
waiting for. He's been on the Angel Quest Show before,
and I'm so excited to have Tim on the show again.
(03:01):
Welcome Tim, Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 11 (03:03):
Hello mother, it's good to be back.
Speaker 10 (03:06):
Yeah, are you ready?
Speaker 11 (03:09):
I'm ready?
Speaker 10 (03:10):
All right, So let's begin by I'm just going to
ask you what is activism?
Speaker 12 (03:16):
Oh, well, it's a wonderful question. I just look at
the word itself and it's very active and interestingly, I'd
say it's a balance of being active, of where we
are being active with where we are being passive and
activism is certainly rooted in this understanding that there is
(03:40):
something that wants to be accomplished for people, and there
are ways to bring that about. Some are more aligned
with truth and spiritual teachings than others, and I think
this is what we'll be discussing today, are the methods
of activism that we can learn from some of the
(04:03):
greats in our history, that we can read their words
and follow in their example so that we can all
step into our own activism. Because the truth is that
we are all activists, and the question is for what
are we activists?
Speaker 10 (04:24):
You know? For me, activism is about using the energy
of love, compassion, and unity to address injustice and heal
the places where fear and division have taken root. So
that's important. I hope that's what we're going to discuss today.
Speaker 11 (04:40):
Sure, yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 10 (04:42):
How did doctor Martin Luther King approach activism?
Speaker 12 (04:47):
Well, the beautiful thing of our time is that we
have so much work and so much genius at our
fingertips in our ears. Doctor Reverend doctor Martin Luther King
has gifted us with so many of his direct words.
We see some of the fruits of his actions. We
(05:09):
see his example of nonviolence, and we all have access
to many of his sermons. For instance, you can just
go to search for his sermons and listen to them freely,
whether it's YouTube or some other source. We have his writings,
He has many multiple books available that we can read
(05:31):
and get a glimpse into this brilliant man's mind. I
say this because as activists, I find it quite important
to study from the ones who have been there before
and have gifted us with an example to follow. So
(05:53):
this is all freely available. The example of doctor Martin
Luther King. Of course, we can watch is I have
a dream speech. We can watch many other of his
famous speeches, the speech where he claims that he's been
to the mountaintop. We can listen to his sermons through
the years when he felt despondent and despair and to
(06:15):
overcome with a sort of a just just tiredness from
from receiving threats from people for continuing this on.
Speaker 11 (06:26):
So we have all of this.
Speaker 12 (06:28):
It's a wonderful thing, and I would I would invite
all the listeners to check out the words of doctor
Martin Luther King directly, because it doesn't matter what he's
talking about. You can understand the essence of his core
approach and philosophy through just about any one of his
sermons or writings. But this man, Reverend doctor Martin Luther King,
(06:54):
is rooted in what we'll call nonviolence.
Speaker 11 (07:00):
This is.
Speaker 12 (07:03):
A suitable word, although not perfect. It's really rooted in
what he would call a Christian love, this love that
is embodied by Christ of the New Testament, the Christ
of Christianity across the denominations, and this is an active force.
(07:23):
So nonviolence is a negative description. But the love that
is behind it, that is the force. It's not the
passivity of passing up on violence that is the force.
That is a restraint, but it is ultimately rooted in
this agape love. Agape is a Greek word, which in
(07:44):
the New Testament there are three words for love. They're
more in Greek, but in the New Testament there's at
least three. One is eros, this is kind of a
romantic love. One is philos This is a brotherly love,
and this is used very often in the New Testament,
(08:06):
the idea of brotherly love that we have for family
members and brothers and good friends. And then there's a
gope love. A gope love is a godly love. It's
the love for the thing in itself. It's the love
that God has for us that we can seek to imitate,
(08:30):
or replicate or or feel into in our own experience.
And it's this a gope love that Reverend doctor Martin
Luther King exuded and showed us the power the full
import of using a gope love in a movement. Collectively,
(08:52):
he has one individual embodied this agape love. He would
not succumb into the temptation of violence even when faced
with violence. That I got love was what kept him
strong and was what ultimately won the day for his
cause and just captivated the imaginations and won the heart
(09:16):
of the whole country and the whole world.
Speaker 11 (09:18):
So I'd say.
Speaker 12 (09:21):
A long winded response to a very loaded question, but
it's just the tip of the iceberg. I hope this
is suitable in covering the importance of doctor King's approach
in activism in general.
Speaker 10 (09:37):
It's perfect. What kind of actions did he take? He marches,
and if you could tell our listeners so maybe they
could participate in these types of actions as well. Similar
to doctor Martin Luther King.
Speaker 12 (09:50):
I think what's important is that he was I will
This is my framing he was listening to Holy Spirit.
He was just listening to Spirit in terms of what
he was to do. I don't think that this is
one cookie cutter formula that he approached, but it became clear.
(10:12):
For instance, in when he was finishing up his thesis
is his doctoral thesis, he was offered a half dozen
positions across the East Coast, and he had his choice
as to where he could go.
Speaker 11 (10:30):
He ended up accepting.
Speaker 12 (10:32):
A pastoral role in Montgomery, Alabama, even though he could
have chosen something in the more northern parts of the
East Coast, which was more tolerable to African American folks
or black folks at this time. But he chose Montgomery
in face of all this segregation, just because that's where
(10:57):
he was called that that's what seemed right to do. Now,
it's quite amazing that he ended up in Montgomery, Alabama,
right as Rosa Parks refused to get up from her
seat and was arrested.
Speaker 10 (11:17):
And that's activism, yes.
Speaker 12 (11:21):
But the beautiful thing is all of these pieces were
put together divinely by divine will. Martin Luther King shows
up in Montgomery. He's a pastor, he's well qualified, but
he just got there he's still finishing up his thesis.
Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat. She's arrested
(11:41):
and brought in jail. And the town, the black folks
of this town were this was the last straw, and
so Martin Luther King and many of the pastors of
Montgomery got together to orchestrate this bus boycott. Now, I
(12:06):
say all this and as a long winded response to
your question, because in this case it made sense to
boycott the buses. This is what this was a rallying
cry for all of the people to earn their rights,
to earn their dignity. It was also fitting because it
(12:26):
was the impetus that brought everyone together to talk about
this in the first place, and so they had there
was always a sentiment, a feeling of injustice and wanting
to remediate it. But until that spark came, there was
(12:47):
no clear avenue as to how to what to do
and what to put in place. But I think the
core of it all is that the boycott. If I
may let me read a a quote from his book,
It's Stride toward Freedom.
Speaker 11 (13:03):
It's about this. It's about this.
Speaker 12 (13:07):
Whole movement in Montgomery, which which became a global sensation.
Martin Luther King says, and of course this is about
the bus boycott where they as a people, and he
would say, the Negro people would come together and not
ride the buses at all. It was initially for a day,
(13:27):
but it was so overwhelmingly successful that they continued it
much more, for much longer than a day. But this
is a sentence that I think captures the essence of
what he was trying to do, how he was trying
to lead this into place.
Speaker 11 (13:44):
He says, our.
Speaker 12 (13:45):
Concern would not be to put the bus company out
of business, but to put justice in business.
Speaker 10 (13:53):
Here we go. I love that perfect I like that.
So how can we use these types of methods right now?
Boycotting maybe some stores or you know, I know that's
being done today, or again, we don't want to put
(14:16):
anybody out in business, but this is sometimes money talks.
Sometimes when you boycott like the boss, you see it works.
So are there any anything that you would recommend to
do today or just go within and be guided?
Speaker 12 (14:33):
Well, definitely, always go with definitely, always listen to the
to the yeah, to the subtle and powerful all intelligent
guidance within from spirit, which which is the word that
I use to describe this, this voice, and I'd say,
(14:54):
more than anything right now, my own punch is, do
we trust that there will be a spark that will
make it obvious? I trust, I trust that there will
be a spark. And so until that spark comes, we
(15:14):
are all called to cultivate this inner sense of nonviolent
agape love. Now, nonviolence is not just an outwardly in
terms of refusing to punch somebody who has punched up.
It's an all encompassing state of being. It's mental, it's spiritual,
(15:40):
it's all of these, and it can be quite a shift.
Speaker 11 (15:45):
To step into this.
Speaker 12 (15:46):
I know many of us are triggered by seeing certain
things and we go down a rabbit hole, which is
what some can characterize as violent. If we're thinking negatively
about someone or something, we can see this as a
violent thought. And so we're all called to cultivate this
(16:10):
sense of non violence with the fullness of our beings,
so that when that spark comes, we are ready.
Speaker 10 (16:16):
We are ready, right absolutely, And in my words, I
would just say to people to remember who they are.
We have God within us, which is only love and peace.
So resonating who you really are and to me, true
nonviolence means not only refraining from physical harm, but also
refusing to dehumanize others, you know, words in our attitudes
(16:39):
and so forth, in our thoughts, so in our thoughts,
absolutely in our thoughts. So who was the key figure
that inspired doctor King to his approach on activism?
Speaker 12 (16:52):
There are men, well, first and foremost Jesus Christ JC
is the first and foremost of This is a pastor
we're talking about, and his sermons is beautiful to see
his public speeches. It's also beautiful to listen to his
sermons where he was speaking to his church or churches
(17:15):
around the country because he has liberty to use a
more religious tone, which can be quite powerful.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
For those.
Speaker 12 (17:25):
With the ear to hear this or with the willingness
to hear this. But this being said, if I may
read another quote from our beloved reverend friend Martin Luther
King says Christ furnished the spirit and motivation while Gandhi furnished.
Speaker 10 (17:52):
The method nice.
Speaker 12 (17:55):
So what this is saying is that Christ has set
this example of what we can call today nonviolent resistance
over two thousand years ago, and we could see this
just brilliantly played out by the early Church and all
of the apostles were martyred willingly. That is, that is
(18:19):
nonviolent resistance to the tea Mark Luther King and well,
of course, of course, but but this is not new, not.
Speaker 10 (18:30):
New that we become afraid of doing this type of thing.
Speaker 12 (18:36):
Yes, but but well we need not this is this
is the this and this is the power of in
this case Christianity or religion more generally, is that we
need not be afraid of bodily harm or termination, you know,
because there is no section, no right. Absolutely, but Gandhi,
(18:57):
but but but but it's returned to your question. Gandhi
was highly influential to doctor King in his methodology. How
he carried this out because I mean, Gandhi won independence
for his country.
Speaker 10 (19:13):
Yeah, and he's such a mild mannered man. It was amazing.
We have to take a short break, but we're gonna
come back and we'll talk about what's the love force
that Gandhi advocated. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
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Speaker 10 (20:48):
Okay, we're back. We're talking about spiritual activism. And my
last question I'm talking with my son Tim, is what
is the love for us that Gandhi at caterd.
Speaker 11 (21:02):
Oh the love force?
Speaker 10 (21:04):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 12 (21:05):
This is this is the same love force. This is
the agape love. Now, love can be taken to be.
Speaker 11 (21:12):
A noun. It can also be taken to be a verb.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 12 (21:18):
Interestingly, as a student of of just to see how
it can be used differently across texts, like in Paul
in the New Testament, he uses love as a noun.
In the Gospels, it's usually used as a verb to
love somebody, to love your neighbor. And this love force,
(21:39):
this is uh. This is one translation of what is
called by Gandhi is satyagraha. Yeah, one translation is is
love force. It's often rendered as nonviolent resistance because those
are the means that are used. But Mahatma Gandhi, who
(22:01):
I had just learned, apparently read the Sermon on the
Mount every day twice a day, morning and evening for
forty years.
Speaker 7 (22:11):
Really, this.
Speaker 12 (22:14):
Man, who is a well comfortable Hindu gentleman, understands the
power of the Sermon on the Mount, which is the
core of this love for us, this nonviolent resistance. And
let me tell you, this man you could you can
just understand by his words. Don't worry about what people
say about him.
Speaker 11 (22:35):
I understand.
Speaker 12 (22:35):
Can we can take and what people say and these
secrets and whatever. When you read his words, it becomes clear,
at least to me, it has become clear that he
embodies the words of the Sermon on the Mount fully.
He truly does. He walks it. He does not just
(22:56):
talk it, He walks it. You can see he's not
succumbing to any temptation. He's not concerned with worldly status.
He's riding third class on the train. You know, he's
living in very, very humble means. But he is an
advocate for this love force, which is satia Graha, and
(23:22):
how he frames this is just so interesting and compelling
and of course effective. What's interesting is that through his
journey we have again we're graced with having so much
of his writings. Gandhi has an autobiography which is just
a masterpiece, a true masterpiece.
Speaker 11 (23:43):
We also have he was.
Speaker 12 (23:46):
He had written a regular article in a newspaper through
a lot of these movements. So they have a collection
of his writings. It's called Satyagraha where it's called non
violent resistance. But it's just a collection of these articles
that he wrote over the course of his tenure. Now,
(24:07):
what's quite interesting is that he frames this love force.
He's not distracted by sheer numbers or anything like this.
He would say that, you know, rather than trying to
assemble hundreds or thousands of people to walk through, he'd
(24:28):
say twenty Satyagrahi's twenty people who are truly embodying love
force that is the most powerful thing.
Speaker 10 (24:38):
I'm very excited about this because we could do this.
Speaker 12 (24:40):
Absolutely, yeah, exactly, exactly exactly. And so this love force,
it's not about numbers, it's not about any of this thing.
It's not about money money. He would refuse money. He
didn't need money to do this. Sometimes he would need
a little bit of money and it would pop into
his into life to support it it. But it was
(25:01):
this love force is completely non violent. He outlighs this,
this understanding of non violence just fully, fully effectively in
the sense of if I may, let me read one
line from his uh Satyagraha.
Speaker 10 (25:18):
Started off with a small amount of people.
Speaker 12 (25:21):
Eventually well he he became Mahatma Gandhi and the whole
nation was, i know, yearning to hear what he said.
Speaker 10 (25:30):
And so the man right of us can do what
we could do.
Speaker 12 (25:37):
Absolutely it took him, it's but it took him years
to earn that status. He never did it. He never
did what he did for that would that because.
Speaker 10 (25:46):
It's not I'm just saying that we all can do
something in.
Speaker 12 (25:49):
This world, but but he would. How he does this
is incredible. Let me let me just share a quote
from one sentence. Non violence to be a potent force
must begin with the mind, begin with the mind. In
other words, we are we are harboring no evil within us.
(26:16):
It's it's not it's not enough to have just an
outwardly refusal to punch somebody. It's a it's an it's
a all encompassing, full body, visceral understanding that in order
to earn this right that I seek, I must befriend
(26:36):
this person who is my opponent. And this is this
is the making of the love force. And and and
in this pursuit what may not be clear. Of course,
India won her freedom as a nation, but they called
(26:59):
for for or non cooperation as a country. Preemptively. Gandhi
agreed across the cities to implement this non cooperation.
Speaker 10 (27:13):
And it was non cooperation with what there were.
Speaker 12 (27:16):
Certain laws in place that were that were unfair, that
were just completely unfair and non cooperation, as Gandhi outlaid,
which Martin Luther King followed, the whole approach, which is
civil disobedience. We could take it back to, you know,
throw But essentially, when there is an unfair law, when
there is a law that is unfair, that is law
(27:39):
of land. It is our moral obligation to disobey that
law publicly and welcome the consequences that come. So it's
not that we're cheating on taxes to earn a profit
for ourselves, disobeying the law. No, it's it's in this case,
(28:02):
there's a salt tax that they're taxing salt and it's
and it's expensive for the folks. They can't make their
own salt. It's illegal. So he said, well, we're going
to make our own salts and if you come and
arrest us, we will go to jail.
Speaker 10 (28:17):
Wow, there's a simple solution there.
Speaker 12 (28:22):
Well, you know, I mean it's it's simplified. But what
may what might not be obvious in this whole pursuit
is that they they they approached, they started this non
cooperation with the law preemptively because the nation wasn't ready
for nonviolence. H sometimes. You know, initially there was good movements,
(28:45):
good movements, but then some other part of the nation,
fights broke out, riots broke out, and Godi Gandhi had
to pull back and tell everybody to stop everything. And
so they stopped everything.
Speaker 10 (29:01):
He refused, refused to pay the taxes on assault.
Speaker 12 (29:04):
Or refused they're not they stopped their non cooperation. I
say he pulled back from this because the people weren't ready.
I say, okay, until until a time. So he built
up their resolve over years of writing in the paper
for them to understand what non violence is. That's the key, right,
(29:25):
And then when they were ready, right, then they launched
into it. And then this they earn their freedom from it.
Speaker 10 (29:31):
And I don't think non violence is weak.
Speaker 11 (29:34):
It's actually definitely not.
Speaker 10 (29:36):
It's the greatest strength we have.
Speaker 12 (29:38):
So definitely not definitely, not absolutely it is. It is,
It is the most It is far more effective than
any sort of gun or or you know, tool of
violence that exists and bringing about permanent, you know, heart
rooted change in a people.
Speaker 10 (29:58):
And what is violence before we go on, It's not
just punching somebody. It's words, right, it's actions, thoughts. Yes,
and we've talked about that before.
Speaker 12 (30:07):
Absolutely violence And and it could be it could be
non cooperation, could be violence if we're refute and and
Gandhi talks about this, how we can think of certain
things as violence. If if I if I uh, I'm
seeking to earn something for myself and non not cooperating
(30:29):
to get it for my own personal benefit, that's violence.
That can be violence. That's a form of violence, even
though it seems noble. Let's say I'm fasting in order
to earn a raise from my employer, right, Gandhi would
call that violence because we're coercing somebody to act in
our benefit.
Speaker 10 (30:49):
I see.
Speaker 12 (30:50):
But violence can also be of if I am thinking, uh,
hateful thoughts, of course, that too is violence. If I'm
if I'm if I'm hoping for bad to come of somebody,
that is that too is violence.
Speaker 10 (31:07):
But if you just think it's the right thing to do,
that's different. Like if somebody pulls money out of the
stock market for you know, you're supporting something that you
don't agree with, and the person feels good about doing that,
that is not violence to me.
Speaker 11 (31:23):
It can be.
Speaker 12 (31:24):
It can be I mean, people.
Speaker 10 (31:25):
Feeling stores or different things like that.
Speaker 12 (31:29):
Yes, but people can feel good about doing violence temporarily.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
You know.
Speaker 11 (31:33):
There's a difference.
Speaker 10 (31:35):
No, I know.
Speaker 12 (31:37):
But the nonviolence isn't all encompassing. It's a state of being.
It's an understanding. It's of course, of miracles to the
tea of truly understanding that all of what we see,
all the people in this world are a reflection of
our self, and so they.
Speaker 11 (31:55):
Deserve our full love.
Speaker 12 (31:58):
For people who we consider our opponents or enemies, the
whole goal of this is to befriend them, befriend them
and earn their friendship. And this, this is the success.
But this, if we were all friends, there would be
no no demanding of rights, We would all be friends.
So it's only in these illusions of opponents and enemies
(32:20):
that we need to.
Speaker 10 (32:21):
Shine friendship the other person's eyes, what they're going through
and why you may not agree with what they're doing,
but try to understand it through their eyes. If that
makes sense. Yeah, we do have to take another break,
but when we come back, I wanted to ask you
what if activism is stopped on all levels? What would happen?
(32:43):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 13 (32:52):
Hudson Riverradio dot com.
Speaker 9 (32:58):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 10 (33:05):
Welcome back to the Angel Quest Show. We're talking about
spiritual activism and I have my son Tim here talking
about this very important concept. My question before the break
was what if activism is stopped in all levels? And
let me just tell you what I think about this.
If activism is stopped completely, then injustice would have no resistance,
(33:29):
and unchecked greed, fear, and division would grow stronger. Silence
may harm, it allows harm to continue. But that's why
it's important that we each find a way to participate
in love, because the moment we stop caring and acting,
the forces of love and justice lose ground.
Speaker 12 (33:52):
Absolutely, thank you well, agreed fully, I can't you know,
I can only I can only uh continue with this,
And I'd say that they're so. In other words, it's
not an option for us to not be active. We
(34:16):
are active in our in our lives, our thoughts. We
are activists in the nature of who we are. We
are creating machines. Even if we are sitting on the
couch by ourselves all day, we are creating. We are
truly contributing to this world. Now, what I what I
(34:41):
would like to make clear about this is that this
this pursuit of activism.
Speaker 11 (34:49):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 12 (34:50):
Rooted in in worldly rights. It's rooted in earning worldly
rights for a people or a a nation. And the
true solution, as we've been discussing, is a spiritual solution,
(35:12):
is a solution that we call a love force. It's
something that is extra worldly. It's not limited to this world. Somehow,
the love that moves through us in bringing forth this
change is far more powerful, although we may not be
(35:34):
able to see it, or touch it, or smell it,
and so part and parcel in this process of activism.
Of a true captivating activism is an understanding that in
order to win these worldly rights, we may be called
(35:56):
to sacrifice some others temporarily. And so I have a
couple of quotes to share, if I may please, one
from doctor MLK Jr. And he says, there is nothing
more majestic than the determined courage of individuals willing to
(36:19):
suffer and sacrifice for their freedom and dignity. Now, to
be clear, in his context, they are not taking the bus.
Some people are walking up to twelve miles a day.
There's an older woman walking. I don't know if I
(36:41):
could find the quote, but an older woman was walking
to her employment, not taking the bus because they were
boycotting the bus. And somebody pulled up alongside her in
a car and said, hey, you know, i'll take you.
Let me drive you to your work. You don't need
to walk, And she said said, no, honey, I'm walking
(37:01):
for my children and my grandchildren. So she was walking,
and she still walked even when she had arrived. That's
that's the kind of suffer and sacrifice that doctor King
is talking about. And and also just one more to
share from Gandhi on this piece. Gandhi says, incivility should
(37:25):
be answered not by incivility, but by a dignified and
calm endurance of all suffering in the name of God. Hmm,
same peace.
Speaker 11 (37:42):
And in other words, we.
Speaker 12 (37:47):
These rights that we seek, whatever these may be for
the planet, for our for the nation, for a group
of people, for some animals, it doesn't matter who the
audience is, but these rights. We are willing to suffer
and sacrifice for these rights.
Speaker 9 (38:09):
This is.
Speaker 12 (38:11):
The potent activism of our forebears that we can learn
about and read today. It's this worldly relinquishing worldly things
in order to earn a spiritual, eternal reward, which is
justice and peace. And of course this was this sort
(38:32):
of suffering and sacrifice was illustrated perfectly by Christ and
his followers many many years ago as perhaps a our
guide book, our playbook, so to speak.
Speaker 10 (38:49):
And also that's so true. But I always bring this
up the fact that we are all connected, we are
all one, and after we leave the physical body, we'll
feel that one's in ance. And but why do we
have to wait till it's too late to feel that oneness?
To understand that, to try to see through the eyes
of each person you encounter, forgive them if they harmed you.
(39:10):
Not telling you to be in toxic relationships, I'm saying
because it hurts you. Ask forgiveness when you hurt somebody,
you know, treat yourself with the respect that you deserve.
Raise your vibration so it's more on par with who
you really are, which is God within you. And when
we do that, we do that, we're raising the vibration
of the planet, and all these negative things that are
(39:32):
so you know happening will go away because we're part
of the whole, if that makes sense. So that's so
important to understand too.
Speaker 12 (39:42):
But this is the activism, to be clear what you're sharing.
That is our activism today. Yes, it's to forgive.
Speaker 10 (39:48):
Being angry and and I hear I get emails a
lot and phone calls. You know, what can I do?
And so forth? And the fact is we have to
be the that we're looking for and see through loving eyes.
And if we sit there and do nothing, I'm not
telling you to do that. That's far from what I'm
(40:08):
saying right here. It's all that we're talking about. So
what kind of things can people do today if they're
not happy with something that's going on in the world,
in the country.
Speaker 11 (40:20):
Pray the rosary, pay the rosary.
Speaker 10 (40:22):
I suppose someone is not.
Speaker 12 (40:23):
Christian, pray your own prayer for twenty minutes.
Speaker 11 (40:28):
Meditate. Forgive the people who have wronged you.
Speaker 12 (40:34):
Yeah, love those who mistreat you, seek their friendship, seek
to understand them.
Speaker 10 (40:39):
But it doesn't mean to be to continue to receive
toxic things in your life. It means understand and try
to see through their eyes. Because I have talked about
this through many groups of people. I've been traveling doing classes,
and people often say, but this person does this to
me and that, and I truly the only way to
(41:00):
understand is try to see through the other person's eyes.
But I'm not saying to be in a just see
them every single day and all of that. You don't
have to do that.
Speaker 9 (41:11):
I have.
Speaker 12 (41:11):
I have friends, I have lifelong friends that I haven't
spoken to in ten years. Yeah, but they're my friends,
right and when I see them, it'll be as if
no time has.
Speaker 10 (41:25):
Passed and no judgment and all of that.
Speaker 12 (41:28):
But what can we do?
Speaker 10 (41:31):
What can we do? What can we do instead of
sitting Because if we sit here and not do anything,
when there's injustice and we're talking about doing something in
the name of love seeing through the eyes of love,
what kinds of things can we do right now? We
can people marching for positive things instead of being against something.
Maybe marching for love and peace and unity and so
(41:56):
forth does that. It's a completely different way of looking
at things instead of saying, whatever's happening, it's creating more peace.
Speaker 11 (42:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 12 (42:07):
I think it's also important to understand that everywhere we
go we are marching for something, and just to recognize this.
So what are you you as the listeners, what are
you marching for? And when we're in the grocery store,
in the grocery store, we're marching everywhere, And just just
to recognize this, just to recognize this fact that we
(42:32):
are all marching all the time, and to just yes,
to be conscious of this. This is prabhaps the most
important thing that we can do.
Speaker 10 (42:45):
Instead of being against something, we have to be for something.
And there's a big difference. Like Mother Teresa, they asked
her to march against the war, and she said, no,
I won't do that, but if you have a march
for peace, I'll be there. That's what we're talking about,
and it's a loving, peaceful way of activism absolutely, so
(43:10):
to remember that. And I'm also going to be doing
I have a lot of events coming up this month,
so I'm on pause for two weeks, but after that,
I'm going to be conducting guided meditations. Whoever wants to
join in, you can email me and I'll give you
the link to it. You can also ask go on
my email list, and if you go on my email
(43:33):
you go to my website Karennoi dot com, go click
on for my newsletter and I'll tell you when I'll
be doing this. But my email is you could Karen Noi.
That's kor E. N n Oe one one one one
at gmail dot com, and I'll send you the link
to these guided meditations for peace. Okay, so let's go.
Let's talk about a little bit. You said a little
(43:56):
bit about this before, but do we need a large
a lot of people to participate in activism And you
said no before, but can you talk a little bit
more about.
Speaker 11 (44:07):
That, Yes, Rosa Parks, All right, exactly, she shows us
one person.
Speaker 12 (44:17):
But that that that cultivated many thousands of people, or
really millions of people ultimately for the cause. So it
became it became a lot of people. But but we
must not let those kind of numbers and figures prevent
us from doing what's right in our own lives, in
(44:40):
the privacy of our own home, and in our own mind,
every moment of the day. This is this is the
importance is We don't have.
Speaker 11 (44:48):
To wait for a march. We don't have to wait
for some event.
Speaker 12 (44:53):
Every moment we are contributing exactly contribute to this love
for us. If we all truly fell, any one of
us truly embodied this love force fully for a day,
that's it. That's all it would take for the world.
All the problems are gone. That's and that's this is
my conviction, this is my understanding of the love force.
(45:16):
And so all of us can just tap into the
power of this, not just as a source of altruistic
good in the sense of good for somebody else and
not myself, but good in the sense of I know
that all of the listeners here have contributed some form
(45:38):
of good into the world and their lives have become
far richer as a result of that. That's the kind
of good that work.
Speaker 10 (45:49):
Good when you're helping others. Yeah, you know, opportunities for
activism are everywhere. You know, every time we choose kindness
over judgment. You speak up when someone's being treated unfairly,
you buy from ethical companies, or you use our voices
to spread love instead of division. We're engaging in activism. Yes,
(46:13):
it's not always about marches like you're saying, or petitions.
Sometimes it's about the quiet but powerful choices we make.
As you said in our Daily Lives, I'm just rephrasing
what you just said. Yes, so you know we're coming
to the end of our hour, but I wanted to
(46:33):
ask you if there's anything else you'd like to share
with our listeners.
Speaker 11 (46:41):
There is.
Speaker 12 (46:42):
I would invite our listeners to to pray, to pray
for strength, to pray for guidance, a prayer of thanksgiving,
thanking the infinite source of this life and this world,
the creator of all this. Thanking for the courage giving
(47:05):
us the courage to stand up for what's right when
it's our time. Martin Luther King says, it's only when
we're hunched over, that somebody can ride on our back.
When we stand up straight and tall, they can't ride
our back anymore. And so earning our rights, we stand
(47:28):
up tall and to have and that takes courage. That
takes courage. And so I pray, I pray on all
of our behalf that we have the courage to do
what's right, to embody this love force all throughout the
day before there's a true gathering and and you know,
(47:50):
collectivity of collective action for it, that we become ready
for that spiritually foundationally, that we're ready for that moment
when it comes, because again, we're building our courage right now.
Speaker 11 (48:05):
This is what I ask. And I have one quote
to share.
Speaker 12 (48:08):
From I want quote to share from our brother Martin
before we close. And this is just in of course,
in light of our conversation, in light of considering what
you as a listener may be called to do, you know,
(48:30):
make be called to give up or you know, uh
sacrifice or suffer for this spiritual, eternal goal. And our
brother Martin says, it is ultimately more honorable to walk
the streets in dignity than to ride the buses in humiliation.
Speaker 10 (48:51):
MM WHOA, Wow, I have a lot to think about here.
I love that. But it's so true. And at one
point you said you would you may be offering group rosaries.
Since you brought up the rosary, maybe we could provide
that for our listeners to at some point.
Speaker 11 (49:12):
That would be excellent. I would love this.
Speaker 10 (49:14):
Yes, get a lot of people who ever wants to
join in, that would be awesome too.
Speaker 12 (49:18):
There's a power to this prayer, just to share. You
don't have to be Catholic, you don't have to, but
there's there's a power to this prayer. And you could
see in the course of history how how potent this
prayer has become and what has come of people gathering
to pray this. So I would I will always support
praying the Rosary as a group. Mother Mary, Yes, Mother
(49:41):
of God.
Speaker 11 (49:42):
Yes.
Speaker 10 (49:43):
So thank you so much for being here today, Kim.
It's been wonderful and I'd like to share some clothing
words as well. The world doesn't change just because we
hope it will. It changes because we choose to be
the ones who carry love into places where it's been forgotten.
Every choice we make, every word we speak, every moment
(50:05):
we decide to see another's humanity is activism. Whether we
do it on a large stage or quietly in our lives,
in our living room, it matters. And if strong, if
enough of us choose love over fear, we can create
a wave of compassion so strong it will heal even
(50:26):
the deepest divides. Change begins with you, with me, and
with every single person listening right now, and I'm inviting
all of us to take that first step today. Thank
you so much for being with us today. Tune in
again to next month's angel Quest podcast. While Hudson River
(50:49):
Radio is no longer streaming live, you'll be able to
find all the latest angel Quest shows, as well as
all archive shows by clicking on the angel Quest podcast
link on wd WW dot Hudson River Radio dot com. Also,
this and all other angel Quest shows are offered as
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and most of the podcast platforms out there,
(51:12):
including the one you're listening to right now. For more
information about me or my books, you could go to
my website at Karenoway dot com. That's k A r
E n n Oe dot com, or follow me on
my Facebook or Instagram pages at Karen Noi Author. Have
an amazing day and always remember to focus on the
beauty and love all around you. Angel, blessings to you
(51:36):
now and olds bye bye.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
From we perceived.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
We are one awakening sanctity, awareness, unity. We are here
to dance and see our connection with everything, understanding.
Speaker 6 (52:24):
Who we are through the ways of the heart.
Speaker 5 (52:33):
Let's choose love, inner peace, living one in harmony with
the knowledge.
Speaker 7 (52:43):
At our core. We are the ones we've been a
waking or. We can do it with the truth and bring.
Speaker 6 (52:52):
New light into all we do.
Speaker 7 (52:55):
We are in love at our best.
Speaker 6 (53:01):
Consciousness.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
As we grow consciously, we claim sovereignty.
Speaker 6 (53:16):
For our lives.
Speaker 8 (53:18):
Lie down, see round it in equality. Let's choose love
inner be living one in harmony with the nogglage.
Speaker 7 (53:37):
At our core. We are the ones we've been waiting before.
We can do it with our truth, bring.
Speaker 6 (53:46):
New light into all we do.
Speaker 8 (53:49):
We are love at our best in the weak consciousness.
Speaker 6 (54:00):
There's a time like the.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Mother within as all we can't discof looking up for
one love hot to heart.
Speaker 16 (54:14):
Sisters and brother, Let's choose love inn thans, living one.
Speaker 6 (54:47):
In harmony with the nose at our call.
Speaker 7 (54:54):
We are the ones we've been waiting for. We can
do it with.
Speaker 6 (54:59):
A true bring new light to all we do. We
all love our.
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Best in the wise consciousness.
Speaker 7 (55:13):
We love at our best.
Speaker 4 (55:20):
Consciousness entering to the week consciousness.
Speaker 14 (55:45):
We are all one. Whatever we do to ourselves or
another affects the whole made the divine within you.
Speaker 10 (55:58):
Guide you as to what steps to take to be
of service to our beautiful planet.
Speaker 6 (56:10):
Pay Peace Prevail on Earth.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
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Let's choose love, inner peace, living one in harmony with thenlage.
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We are in love at our best in the weed consciousness.
Speaker 9 (02:05):
And now, ladies and gentlemen, it's time for Angel Quest
with KARENI on Hudsonliverradio dot com.
Speaker 10 (02:16):
Well, hello, everybody, Welcome to the Angel Catch Show. I'm
Karen Noe, author of Weak Consciousness and Your Life After
Their Death. Today's guest is my son, Tim Nowie. Tim's
currently a graduate student in religious studies at Rutgers University
with a focus on biblical studies, and he leads regular
classes on a course in miracles. In today's episode, we'll
(02:40):
be diving into a heartfelt conversation about activism, what it means,
how it aligns with spiritual principles, and how we can
all make a difference. We are the ones we've been
waiting for. He's been on the Angel Quest Show before,
and I'm so excited to have Tim on the show again.
(03:01):
Welcome Tim, Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 11 (03:03):
Hello mother, it's good to be back.
Speaker 10 (03:06):
Yeah, are you ready?
Speaker 11 (03:09):
I'm ready?
Speaker 10 (03:10):
All right, So let's begin by I'm just going to
ask you what is activism?
Speaker 12 (03:16):
Oh, well, it's a wonderful question. I just look at
the word itself and it's very active and interestingly, I'd
say it's a balance of being active, of where we
are being active with where we are being passive and
activism is certainly rooted in this understanding that there is
(03:40):
something that wants to be accomplished for people, and there
are ways to bring that about. Some are more aligned
with truth and spiritual teachings than others, and I think
this is what we'll be discussing today, are the methods
of activism that we can learn from some of the
(04:03):
greats in our history, that we can read their words
and follow in their example so that we can all
step into our own activism. Because the truth is that
we are all activists, and the question is for what
are we activists?
Speaker 10 (04:24):
You know? For me, activism is about using the energy
of love, compassion, and unity to address injustice and heal
the places where fear and division have taken root. So
that's important. I hope that's what we're going to discuss today.
Speaker 11 (04:40):
Sure, yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 10 (04:42):
How did doctor Martin Luther King approach activism?
Speaker 12 (04:47):
Well, the beautiful thing of our time is that we
have so much work and so much genius at our
fingertips in our ears. Doctor Reverend doctor Martin Luther King
has gifted us with so many of his direct words.
We see some of the fruits of his actions. We
(05:09):
see his example of nonviolence, and we all have access
to many of his sermons. For instance, you can just
go to search for his sermons and listen to them freely,
whether it's YouTube or some other source. We have his writings,
He has many multiple books available that we can read
(05:31):
and get a glimpse into this brilliant man's mind. I
say this because as activists, I find it quite important
to study from the ones who have been there before
and have gifted us with an example to follow. So
(05:53):
this is all freely available. The example of doctor Martin
Luther King. Of course, we can watch is I have
a dream speech. We can watch many other of his
famous speeches, the speech where he claims that he's been
to the mountaintop. We can listen to his sermons through
the years when he felt despondent and despair and to
(06:15):
overcome with a sort of a just just tiredness from
from receiving threats from people for continuing this on.
Speaker 11 (06:26):
So we have all of this.
Speaker 12 (06:28):
It's a wonderful thing, and I would I would invite
all the listeners to check out the words of doctor
Martin Luther King directly, because it doesn't matter what he's
talking about. You can understand the essence of his core
approach and philosophy through just about any one of his
sermons or writings. But this man, Reverend doctor Martin Luther King,
(06:54):
is rooted in what we'll call nonviolence.
Speaker 11 (07:00):
This is.
Speaker 12 (07:03):
A suitable word, although not perfect. It's really rooted in
what he would call a Christian love, this love that
is embodied by Christ of the New Testament, the Christ
of Christianity across the denominations, and this is an active force.
(07:23):
So nonviolence is a negative description. But the love that
is behind it, that is the force. It's not the
passivity of passing up on violence that is the force.
That is a restraint, but it is ultimately rooted in
this agape love. Agape is a Greek word, which in
(07:44):
the New Testament there are three words for love. They're
more in Greek, but in the New Testament there's at
least three. One is eros, this is kind of a
romantic love. One is philos This is a brotherly love,
and this is used very often in the New Testament,
(08:06):
the idea of brotherly love that we have for family
members and brothers and good friends. And then there's a
gope love. A gope love is a godly love. It's
the love for the thing in itself. It's the love
that God has for us that we can seek to imitate,
(08:30):
or replicate or or feel into in our own experience.
And it's this a gope love that Reverend doctor Martin
Luther King exuded and showed us the power the full
import of using a gope love in a movement. Collectively,
(08:52):
he has one individual embodied this agape love. He would
not succumb into the temptation of violence even when faced
with violence. That I got love was what kept him
strong and was what ultimately won the day for his
cause and just captivated the imaginations and won the heart
(09:16):
of the whole country and the whole world.
Speaker 11 (09:18):
So I'd say.
Speaker 12 (09:21):
A long winded response to a very loaded question, but
it's just the tip of the iceberg. I hope this
is suitable in covering the importance of doctor King's approach
in activism in general.
Speaker 10 (09:37):
It's perfect. What kind of actions did he take? He marches,
and if you could tell our listeners so maybe they
could participate in these types of actions as well. Similar
to doctor Martin Luther King.
Speaker 12 (09:50):
I think what's important is that he was I will
This is my framing he was listening to Holy Spirit.
He was just listening to Spirit in terms of what
he was to do. I don't think that this is
one cookie cutter formula that he approached, but it became clear.
(10:12):
For instance, in when he was finishing up his thesis
is his doctoral thesis, he was offered a half dozen
positions across the East Coast, and he had his choice
as to where he could go.
Speaker 11 (10:30):
He ended up accepting.
Speaker 12 (10:32):
A pastoral role in Montgomery, Alabama, even though he could
have chosen something in the more northern parts of the
East Coast, which was more tolerable to African American folks
or black folks at this time. But he chose Montgomery
in face of all this segregation, just because that's where
(10:57):
he was called that that's what seemed right to do. Now,
it's quite amazing that he ended up in Montgomery, Alabama,
right as Rosa Parks refused to get up from her
seat and was arrested.
Speaker 10 (11:17):
And that's activism, yes.
Speaker 12 (11:21):
But the beautiful thing is all of these pieces were
put together divinely by divine will. Martin Luther King shows
up in Montgomery. He's a pastor, he's well qualified, but
he just got there he's still finishing up his thesis.
Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat. She's arrested
(11:41):
and brought in jail. And the town, the black folks
of this town were this was the last straw, and
so Martin Luther King and many of the pastors of
Montgomery got together to orchestrate this bus boycott. Now, I
(12:06):
say all this and as a long winded response to
your question, because in this case it made sense to
boycott the buses. This is what this was a rallying
cry for all of the people to earn their rights,
to earn their dignity. It was also fitting because it
(12:26):
was the impetus that brought everyone together to talk about
this in the first place, and so they had there
was always a sentiment, a feeling of injustice and wanting
to remediate it. But until that spark came, there was
(12:47):
no clear avenue as to how to what to do
and what to put in place. But I think the
core of it all is that the boycott. If I
may let me read a a quote from his book,
It's Stride toward Freedom.
Speaker 11 (13:03):
It's about this. It's about this.
Speaker 12 (13:07):
Whole movement in Montgomery, which which became a global sensation.
Martin Luther King says, and of course this is about
the bus boycott where they as a people, and he
would say, the Negro people would come together and not
ride the buses at all. It was initially for a day,
(13:27):
but it was so overwhelmingly successful that they continued it
much more, for much longer than a day. But this
is a sentence that I think captures the essence of
what he was trying to do, how he was trying
to lead this into place.
Speaker 11 (13:44):
He says, our.
Speaker 12 (13:45):
Concern would not be to put the bus company out
of business, but to put justice in business.
Speaker 10 (13:53):
Here we go. I love that perfect I like that.
So how can we use these types of methods right now?
Boycotting maybe some stores or you know, I know that's
being done today, or again, we don't want to put
(14:16):
anybody out in business, but this is sometimes money talks.
Sometimes when you boycott like the boss, you see it works.
So are there any anything that you would recommend to
do today or just go within and be guided?
Speaker 12 (14:33):
Well, definitely, always go with definitely, always listen to the
to the yeah, to the subtle and powerful all intelligent
guidance within from spirit, which which is the word that
I use to describe this, this voice, and I'd say,
(14:54):
more than anything right now, my own punch is, do
we trust that there will be a spark that will
make it obvious? I trust, I trust that there will
be a spark. And so until that spark comes, we
(15:14):
are all called to cultivate this inner sense of nonviolent
agape love. Now, nonviolence is not just an outwardly in
terms of refusing to punch somebody who has punched up.
It's an all encompassing state of being. It's mental, it's spiritual,
(15:40):
it's all of these, and it can be quite a shift.
Speaker 11 (15:45):
To step into this.
Speaker 12 (15:46):
I know many of us are triggered by seeing certain
things and we go down a rabbit hole, which is
what some can characterize as violent. If we're thinking negatively
about someone or something, we can see this as a
violent thought. And so we're all called to cultivate this
(16:10):
sense of non violence with the fullness of our beings,
so that when that spark comes, we are ready.
Speaker 10 (16:16):
We are ready, right absolutely, And in my words, I
would just say to people to remember who they are.
We have God within us, which is only love and peace.
So resonating who you really are and to me, true
nonviolence means not only refraining from physical harm, but also
refusing to dehumanize others, you know, words in our attitudes
(16:39):
and so forth, in our thoughts, so in our thoughts,
absolutely in our thoughts. So who was the key figure
that inspired doctor King to his approach on activism?
Speaker 12 (16:52):
There are men, well, first and foremost Jesus Christ JC
is the first and foremost of This is a pastor
we're talking about, and his sermons is beautiful to see
his public speeches. It's also beautiful to listen to his
sermons where he was speaking to his church or churches
(17:15):
around the country because he has liberty to use a
more religious tone, which can be quite powerful.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
For those.
Speaker 12 (17:25):
With the ear to hear this or with the willingness
to hear this. But this being said, if I may
read another quote from our beloved reverend friend Martin Luther
King says Christ furnished the spirit and motivation while Gandhi furnished.
Speaker 10 (17:52):
The method nice.
Speaker 12 (17:55):
So what this is saying is that Christ has set
this example of what we can call today nonviolent resistance
over two thousand years ago, and we could see this
just brilliantly played out by the early Church and all
of the apostles were martyred willingly. That is, that is
(18:19):
nonviolent resistance to the tea Mark Luther King and well,
of course, of course, but but this is not new, not.
Speaker 10 (18:30):
New that we become afraid of doing this type of thing.
Speaker 12 (18:36):
Yes, but but well we need not this is this
is the this and this is the power of in
this case Christianity or religion more generally, is that we
need not be afraid of bodily harm or termination, you know,
because there is no section, no right. Absolutely, but Gandhi,
(18:57):
but but but but it's returned to your question. Gandhi
was highly influential to doctor King in his methodology. How
he carried this out because I mean, Gandhi won independence
for his country.
Speaker 10 (19:13):
Yeah, and he's such a mild mannered man. It was amazing.
We have to take a short break, but we're gonna
come back and we'll talk about what's the love force
that Gandhi advocated. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 10 (20:48):
Okay, we're back. We're talking about spiritual activism. And my
last question I'm talking with my son Tim, is what
is the love for us that Gandhi at caterd.
Speaker 11 (21:02):
Oh the love force?
Speaker 10 (21:04):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 12 (21:05):
This is this is the same love force. This is
the agape love. Now, love can be taken to be.
Speaker 11 (21:12):
A noun. It can also be taken to be a verb.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 12 (21:18):
Interestingly, as a student of of just to see how
it can be used differently across texts, like in Paul
in the New Testament, he uses love as a noun.
In the Gospels, it's usually used as a verb to
love somebody, to love your neighbor. And this love force,
(21:39):
this is uh. This is one translation of what is
called by Gandhi is satyagraha. Yeah, one translation is is
love force. It's often rendered as nonviolent resistance because those
are the means that are used. But Mahatma Gandhi, who
(22:01):
I had just learned, apparently read the Sermon on the
Mount every day twice a day, morning and evening for
forty years.
Speaker 7 (22:11):
Really, this.
Speaker 12 (22:14):
Man, who is a well comfortable Hindu gentleman, understands the
power of the Sermon on the Mount, which is the
core of this love for us, this nonviolent resistance. And
let me tell you, this man you could you can
just understand by his words. Don't worry about what people
say about him.
Speaker 11 (22:35):
I understand.
Speaker 12 (22:35):
Can we can take and what people say and these
secrets and whatever. When you read his words, it becomes clear,
at least to me, it has become clear that he
embodies the words of the Sermon on the Mount fully.
He truly does. He walks it. He does not just
(22:56):
talk it, He walks it. You can see he's not
succumbing to any temptation. He's not concerned with worldly status.
He's riding third class on the train. You know, he's
living in very, very humble means. But he is an
advocate for this love force, which is satia Graha, and
(23:22):
how he frames this is just so interesting and compelling
and of course effective. What's interesting is that through his
journey we have again we're graced with having so much
of his writings. Gandhi has an autobiography which is just
a masterpiece, a true masterpiece.
Speaker 11 (23:43):
We also have he was.
Speaker 12 (23:46):
He had written a regular article in a newspaper through
a lot of these movements. So they have a collection
of his writings. It's called Satyagraha where it's called non
violent resistance. But it's just a collection of these articles
that he wrote over the course of his tenure. Now,
(24:07):
what's quite interesting is that he frames this love force.
He's not distracted by sheer numbers or anything like this.
He would say that, you know, rather than trying to
assemble hundreds or thousands of people to walk through, he'd
(24:28):
say twenty Satyagrahi's twenty people who are truly embodying love
force that is the most powerful thing.
Speaker 10 (24:38):
I'm very excited about this because we could do this.
Speaker 12 (24:40):
Absolutely, yeah, exactly, exactly exactly. And so this love force,
it's not about numbers, it's not about any of this thing.
It's not about money money. He would refuse money. He
didn't need money to do this. Sometimes he would need
a little bit of money and it would pop into
his into life to support it it. But it was
(25:01):
this love force is completely non violent. He outlighs this,
this understanding of non violence just fully, fully effectively in
the sense of if I may, let me read one
line from his uh Satyagraha.
Speaker 10 (25:18):
Started off with a small amount of people.
Speaker 12 (25:21):
Eventually well he he became Mahatma Gandhi and the whole
nation was, i know, yearning to hear what he said.
Speaker 10 (25:30):
And so the man right of us can do what
we could do.
Speaker 12 (25:37):
Absolutely it took him, it's but it took him years
to earn that status. He never did it. He never
did what he did for that would that because.
Speaker 10 (25:46):
It's not I'm just saying that we all can do
something in.
Speaker 12 (25:49):
This world, but but he would. How he does this
is incredible. Let me let me just share a quote
from one sentence. Non violence to be a potent force
must begin with the mind, begin with the mind. In
other words, we are we are harboring no evil within us.
(26:16):
It's it's not it's not enough to have just an
outwardly refusal to punch somebody. It's a it's an it's
a all encompassing, full body, visceral understanding that in order
to earn this right that I seek, I must befriend
(26:36):
this person who is my opponent. And this is this
is the making of the love force. And and and
in this pursuit what may not be clear. Of course,
India won her freedom as a nation, but they called
(26:59):
for for or non cooperation as a country. Preemptively. Gandhi
agreed across the cities to implement this non cooperation.
Speaker 10 (27:13):
And it was non cooperation with what there were.
Speaker 12 (27:16):
Certain laws in place that were that were unfair, that
were just completely unfair and non cooperation, as Gandhi outlaid,
which Martin Luther King followed, the whole approach, which is
civil disobedience. We could take it back to, you know,
throw But essentially, when there is an unfair law, when
there is a law that is unfair, that is law
(27:39):
of land. It is our moral obligation to disobey that
law publicly and welcome the consequences that come. So it's
not that we're cheating on taxes to earn a profit
for ourselves, disobeying the law. No, it's it's in this case,
(28:02):
there's a salt tax that they're taxing salt and it's
and it's expensive for the folks. They can't make their
own salt. It's illegal. So he said, well, we're going
to make our own salts and if you come and
arrest us, we will go to jail.
Speaker 10 (28:17):
Wow, there's a simple solution there.
Speaker 12 (28:22):
Well, you know, I mean it's it's simplified. But what
may what might not be obvious in this whole pursuit
is that they they they approached, they started this non
cooperation with the law preemptively because the nation wasn't ready
for nonviolence. H sometimes. You know, initially there was good movements,
(28:45):
good movements, but then some other part of the nation,
fights broke out, riots broke out, and Godi Gandhi had
to pull back and tell everybody to stop everything. And
so they stopped everything.
Speaker 10 (29:01):
He refused, refused to pay the taxes on assault.
Speaker 12 (29:04):
Or refused they're not they stopped their non cooperation. I
say he pulled back from this because the people weren't ready.
I say, okay, until until a time. So he built
up their resolve over years of writing in the paper
for them to understand what non violence is. That's the key, right,
(29:25):
And then when they were ready, right, then they launched
into it. And then this they earn their freedom from it.
Speaker 10 (29:31):
And I don't think non violence is weak.
Speaker 11 (29:34):
It's actually definitely not.
Speaker 10 (29:36):
It's the greatest strength we have.
Speaker 12 (29:38):
So definitely not definitely, not absolutely it is. It is,
It is the most It is far more effective than
any sort of gun or or you know, tool of
violence that exists and bringing about permanent, you know, heart
rooted change in a people.
Speaker 10 (29:58):
And what is violence before we go on, It's not
just punching somebody. It's words, right, it's actions, thoughts. Yes,
and we've talked about that before.
Speaker 12 (30:07):
Absolutely violence And and it could be it could be
non cooperation, could be violence if we're refute and and
Gandhi talks about this, how we can think of certain
things as violence. If if I if I uh, I'm
seeking to earn something for myself and non not cooperating
(30:29):
to get it for my own personal benefit, that's violence.
That can be violence. That's a form of violence, even
though it seems noble. Let's say I'm fasting in order
to earn a raise from my employer, right, Gandhi would
call that violence because we're coercing somebody to act in
our benefit.
Speaker 10 (30:49):
I see.
Speaker 12 (30:50):
But violence can also be of if I am thinking, uh,
hateful thoughts, of course, that too is violence. If I'm
if I'm if I'm hoping for bad to come of somebody,
that is that too is violence.
Speaker 10 (31:07):
But if you just think it's the right thing to do,
that's different. Like if somebody pulls money out of the
stock market for you know, you're supporting something that you
don't agree with, and the person feels good about doing that,
that is not violence to me.
Speaker 11 (31:23):
It can be.
Speaker 12 (31:24):
It can be I mean, people.
Speaker 10 (31:25):
Feeling stores or different things like that.
Speaker 12 (31:29):
Yes, but people can feel good about doing violence temporarily.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
You know.
Speaker 11 (31:33):
There's a difference.
Speaker 10 (31:35):
No, I know.
Speaker 12 (31:37):
But the nonviolence isn't all encompassing. It's a state of being.
It's an understanding. It's of course, of miracles to the
tea of truly understanding that all of what we see,
all the people in this world are a reflection of
our self, and so they.
Speaker 11 (31:55):
Deserve our full love.
Speaker 12 (31:58):
For people who we consider our opponents or enemies, the
whole goal of this is to befriend them, befriend them
and earn their friendship. And this, this is the success.
But this, if we were all friends, there would be
no no demanding of rights, We would all be friends.
So it's only in these illusions of opponents and enemies
(32:20):
that we need to.
Speaker 10 (32:21):
Shine friendship the other person's eyes, what they're going through
and why you may not agree with what they're doing,
but try to understand it through their eyes. If that
makes sense. Yeah, we do have to take another break,
but when we come back, I wanted to ask you
what if activism is stopped on all levels? What would happen?
(32:43):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 13 (32:52):
Hudson Riverradio dot com.
Speaker 9 (32:58):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 10 (33:05):
Welcome back to the Angel Quest Show. We're talking about
spiritual activism and I have my son Tim here talking
about this very important concept. My question before the break
was what if activism is stopped in all levels? And
let me just tell you what I think about this.
If activism is stopped completely, then injustice would have no resistance,
(33:29):
and unchecked greed, fear, and division would grow stronger. Silence
may harm, it allows harm to continue. But that's why
it's important that we each find a way to participate
in love, because the moment we stop caring and acting,
the forces of love and justice lose ground.
Speaker 12 (33:52):
Absolutely, thank you well, agreed fully, I can't you know,
I can only I can only uh continue with this,
And I'd say that they're so. In other words, it's
not an option for us to not be active. We
(34:16):
are active in our in our lives, our thoughts. We
are activists in the nature of who we are. We
are creating machines. Even if we are sitting on the
couch by ourselves all day, we are creating. We are
truly contributing to this world. Now, what I what I
(34:41):
would like to make clear about this is that this
this pursuit of activism.
Speaker 11 (34:49):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 12 (34:50):
Rooted in in worldly rights. It's rooted in earning worldly
rights for a people or a a nation. And the
true solution, as we've been discussing, is a spiritual solution,
(35:12):
is a solution that we call a love force. It's
something that is extra worldly. It's not limited to this world. Somehow,
the love that moves through us in bringing forth this
change is far more powerful, although we may not be
(35:34):
able to see it, or touch it, or smell it,
and so part and parcel in this process of activism.
Of a true captivating activism is an understanding that in
order to win these worldly rights, we may be called
(35:56):
to sacrifice some others temporarily. And so I have a
couple of quotes to share, if I may please, one
from doctor MLK Jr. And he says, there is nothing
more majestic than the determined courage of individuals willing to
(36:19):
suffer and sacrifice for their freedom and dignity. Now, to
be clear, in his context, they are not taking the bus.
Some people are walking up to twelve miles a day.
There's an older woman walking. I don't know if I
(36:41):
could find the quote, but an older woman was walking
to her employment, not taking the bus because they were
boycotting the bus. And somebody pulled up alongside her in
a car and said, hey, you know, i'll take you.
Let me drive you to your work. You don't need
to walk, And she said said, no, honey, I'm walking
(37:01):
for my children and my grandchildren. So she was walking,
and she still walked even when she had arrived. That's
that's the kind of suffer and sacrifice that doctor King
is talking about. And and also just one more to
share from Gandhi on this piece. Gandhi says, incivility should
(37:25):
be answered not by incivility, but by a dignified and
calm endurance of all suffering in the name of God. Hmm,
same peace.
Speaker 11 (37:42):
And in other words, we.
Speaker 12 (37:47):
These rights that we seek, whatever these may be for
the planet, for our for the nation, for a group
of people, for some animals, it doesn't matter who the
audience is, but these rights. We are willing to suffer
and sacrifice for these rights.
Speaker 9 (38:09):
This is.
Speaker 12 (38:11):
The potent activism of our forebears that we can learn
about and read today. It's this worldly relinquishing worldly things
in order to earn a spiritual, eternal reward, which is
justice and peace. And of course this was this sort
(38:32):
of suffering and sacrifice was illustrated perfectly by Christ and
his followers many many years ago as perhaps a our
guide book, our playbook, so to speak.
Speaker 10 (38:49):
And also that's so true. But I always bring this
up the fact that we are all connected, we are
all one, and after we leave the physical body, we'll
feel that one's in ance. And but why do we
have to wait till it's too late to feel that oneness?
To understand that, to try to see through the eyes
of each person you encounter, forgive them if they harmed you.
(39:10):
Not telling you to be in toxic relationships, I'm saying
because it hurts you. Ask forgiveness when you hurt somebody,
you know, treat yourself with the respect that you deserve.
Raise your vibration so it's more on par with who
you really are, which is God within you. And when
we do that, we do that, we're raising the vibration
of the planet, and all these negative things that are
(39:32):
so you know happening will go away because we're part
of the whole, if that makes sense. So that's so
important to understand too.
Speaker 12 (39:42):
But this is the activism, to be clear what you're sharing.
That is our activism today. Yes, it's to forgive.
Speaker 10 (39:48):
Being angry and and I hear I get emails a
lot and phone calls. You know, what can I do?
And so forth? And the fact is we have to
be the that we're looking for and see through loving eyes.
And if we sit there and do nothing, I'm not
telling you to do that. That's far from what I'm
(40:08):
saying right here. It's all that we're talking about. So
what kind of things can people do today if they're
not happy with something that's going on in the world,
in the country.
Speaker 11 (40:20):
Pray the rosary, pay the rosary.
Speaker 10 (40:22):
I suppose someone is not.
Speaker 12 (40:23):
Christian, pray your own prayer for twenty minutes.
Speaker 11 (40:28):
Meditate. Forgive the people who have wronged you.
Speaker 12 (40:34):
Yeah, love those who mistreat you, seek their friendship, seek
to understand them.
Speaker 10 (40:39):
But it doesn't mean to be to continue to receive
toxic things in your life. It means understand and try
to see through their eyes. Because I have talked about
this through many groups of people. I've been traveling doing classes,
and people often say, but this person does this to
me and that, and I truly the only way to
(41:00):
understand is try to see through the other person's eyes.
But I'm not saying to be in a just see
them every single day and all of that. You don't
have to do that.
Speaker 9 (41:11):
I have.
Speaker 12 (41:11):
I have friends, I have lifelong friends that I haven't
spoken to in ten years. Yeah, but they're my friends,
right and when I see them, it'll be as if
no time has.
Speaker 10 (41:25):
Passed and no judgment and all of that.
Speaker 12 (41:28):
But what can we do?
Speaker 10 (41:31):
What can we do? What can we do instead of
sitting Because if we sit here and not do anything,
when there's injustice and we're talking about doing something in
the name of love seeing through the eyes of love,
what kinds of things can we do right now? We
can people marching for positive things instead of being against something.
Maybe marching for love and peace and unity and so
(41:56):
forth does that. It's a completely different way of looking
at things instead of saying, whatever's happening, it's creating more peace.
Speaker 11 (42:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 12 (42:07):
I think it's also important to understand that everywhere we
go we are marching for something, and just to recognize this.
So what are you you as the listeners, what are
you marching for? And when we're in the grocery store,
in the grocery store, we're marching everywhere, And just just
to recognize this, just to recognize this fact that we
(42:32):
are all marching all the time, and to just yes,
to be conscious of this. This is prabhaps the most
important thing that we can do.
Speaker 10 (42:45):
Instead of being against something, we have to be for something.
And there's a big difference. Like Mother Teresa, they asked
her to march against the war, and she said, no,
I won't do that, but if you have a march
for peace, I'll be there. That's what we're talking about,
and it's a loving, peaceful way of activism absolutely, so
(43:10):
to remember that. And I'm also going to be doing
I have a lot of events coming up this month,
so I'm on pause for two weeks, but after that,
I'm going to be conducting guided meditations. Whoever wants to
join in, you can email me and I'll give you
the link to it. You can also ask go on
my email list, and if you go on my email
(43:33):
you go to my website Karennoi dot com, go click
on for my newsletter and I'll tell you when I'll
be doing this. But my email is you could Karen Noi.
That's kor E. N n Oe one one one one
at gmail dot com, and I'll send you the link
to these guided meditations for peace. Okay, so let's go.
Let's talk about a little bit. You said a little
(43:56):
bit about this before, but do we need a large
a lot of people to participate in activism And you
said no before, but can you talk a little bit
more about.
Speaker 11 (44:07):
That, Yes, Rosa Parks, All right, exactly, she shows us
one person.
Speaker 12 (44:17):
But that that that cultivated many thousands of people, or
really millions of people ultimately for the cause. So it
became it became a lot of people. But but we
must not let those kind of numbers and figures prevent
us from doing what's right in our own lives, in
(44:40):
the privacy of our own home, and in our own mind,
every moment of the day. This is this is the
importance is We don't have.
Speaker 11 (44:48):
To wait for a march. We don't have to wait
for some event.
Speaker 12 (44:53):
Every moment we are contributing exactly contribute to this love
for us. If we all truly fell, any one of
us truly embodied this love force fully for a day,
that's it. That's all it would take for the world.
All the problems are gone. That's and that's this is
my conviction, this is my understanding of the love force.
(45:16):
And so all of us can just tap into the
power of this, not just as a source of altruistic
good in the sense of good for somebody else and
not myself, but good in the sense of I know
that all of the listeners here have contributed some form
(45:38):
of good into the world and their lives have become
far richer as a result of that. That's the kind
of good that work.
Speaker 10 (45:49):
Good when you're helping others. Yeah, you know, opportunities for
activism are everywhere. You know, every time we choose kindness
over judgment. You speak up when someone's being treated unfairly,
you buy from ethical companies, or you use our voices
to spread love instead of division. We're engaging in activism. Yes,
(46:13):
it's not always about marches like you're saying, or petitions.
Sometimes it's about the quiet but powerful choices we make.
As you said in our Daily Lives, I'm just rephrasing
what you just said. Yes, so you know we're coming
to the end of our hour, but I wanted to
(46:33):
ask you if there's anything else you'd like to share
with our listeners.
Speaker 11 (46:41):
There is.
Speaker 12 (46:42):
I would invite our listeners to to pray, to pray
for strength, to pray for guidance, a prayer of thanksgiving,
thanking the infinite source of this life and this world,
the creator of all this. Thanking for the courage giving
(47:05):
us the courage to stand up for what's right when
it's our time. Martin Luther King says, it's only when
we're hunched over, that somebody can ride on our back.
When we stand up straight and tall, they can't ride
our back anymore. And so earning our rights, we stand
(47:28):
up tall and to have and that takes courage. That
takes courage. And so I pray, I pray on all
of our behalf that we have the courage to do
what's right, to embody this love force all throughout the
day before there's a true gathering and and you know,
(47:50):
collectivity of collective action for it, that we become ready
for that spiritually foundationally, that we're ready for that moment
when it comes, because again, we're building our courage right now.
Speaker 11 (48:05):
This is what I ask. And I have one quote
to share.
Speaker 12 (48:08):
From I want quote to share from our brother Martin
before we close. And this is just in of course,
in light of our conversation, in light of considering what
you as a listener may be called to do, you know,
(48:30):
make be called to give up or you know, uh
sacrifice or suffer for this spiritual, eternal goal. And our
brother Martin says, it is ultimately more honorable to walk
the streets in dignity than to ride the buses in humiliation.
Speaker 10 (48:51):
MM WHOA, Wow, I have a lot to think about here.
I love that. But it's so true. And at one
point you said you would you may be offering group rosaries.
Since you brought up the rosary, maybe we could provide
that for our listeners to at some point.
Speaker 11 (49:12):
That would be excellent. I would love this.
Speaker 10 (49:14):
Yes, get a lot of people who ever wants to
join in, that would be awesome too.
Speaker 12 (49:18):
There's a power to this prayer, just to share. You
don't have to be Catholic, you don't have to, but
there's there's a power to this prayer. And you could
see in the course of history how how potent this
prayer has become and what has come of people gathering
to pray this. So I would I will always support
praying the Rosary as a group. Mother Mary, Yes, Mother
(49:41):
of God.
Speaker 11 (49:42):
Yes.
Speaker 10 (49:43):
So thank you so much for being here today, Kim.
It's been wonderful and I'd like to share some clothing
words as well. The world doesn't change just because we
hope it will. It changes because we choose to be
the ones who carry love into places where it's been forgotten.
Every choice we make, every word we speak, every moment
(50:05):
we decide to see another's humanity is activism. Whether we
do it on a large stage or quietly in our lives,
in our living room, it matters. And if strong, if
enough of us choose love over fear, we can create
a wave of compassion so strong it will heal even
(50:26):
the deepest divides. Change begins with you, with me, and
with every single person listening right now, and I'm inviting
all of us to take that first step today. Thank
you so much for being with us today. Tune in
again to next month's angel Quest podcast. While Hudson River
(50:49):
Radio is no longer streaming live, you'll be able to
find all the latest angel Quest shows, as well as
all archive shows by clicking on the angel Quest podcast
link on wd WW dot Hudson River Radio dot com. Also,
this and all other angel Quest shows are offered as
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and most of the podcast platforms out there,
(51:12):
including the one you're listening to right now. For more
information about me or my books, you could go to
my website at Karenoway dot com. That's k A r
E n n Oe dot com, or follow me on
my Facebook or Instagram pages at Karen Noi Author. Have
an amazing day and always remember to focus on the
beauty and love all around you. Angel, blessings to you
(51:36):
now and olds bye bye.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
From we perceived.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
We are one awakening sanctity, awareness, unity. We are here
to dance and see our connection with everything, understanding.
Speaker 6 (52:24):
Who we are through the ways of the heart.
Speaker 5 (52:33):
Let's choose love, inner peace, living one in harmony with
the knowledge.
Speaker 7 (52:43):
At our core. We are the ones we've been a
waking or. We can do it with the truth and bring.
Speaker 6 (52:52):
New light into all we do.
Speaker 7 (52:55):
We are in love at our best.
Speaker 6 (53:01):
Consciousness.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
As we grow consciously, we claim sovereignty.
Speaker 6 (53:16):
For our lives.
Speaker 8 (53:18):
Lie down, see round it in equality. Let's choose love
inner be living one in harmony with the nogglage.
Speaker 7 (53:37):
At our core. We are the ones we've been waiting before.
We can do it with our truth, bring.
Speaker 6 (53:46):
New light into all we do.
Speaker 8 (53:49):
We are love at our best in the weak consciousness.
Speaker 6 (54:00):
There's a time like the.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Mother within as all we can't discof looking up for
one love hot to heart.
Speaker 16 (54:14):
Sisters and brother, Let's choose love inn thans, living one.
Speaker 6 (54:47):
In harmony with the nose at our call.
Speaker 7 (54:54):
We are the ones we've been waiting for. We can
do it with.
Speaker 6 (54:59):
A true bring new light to all we do. We
all love our.
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Best in the wise consciousness.
Speaker 7 (55:13):
We love at our best.
Speaker 4 (55:20):
Consciousness entering to the week consciousness.
Speaker 14 (55:45):
We are all one. Whatever we do to ourselves or
another affects the whole made the divine within you.
Speaker 10 (55:58):
Guide you as to what steps to take to be
of service to our beautiful planet.
Speaker 6 (56:10):
Pay Peace Prevail on Earth.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Hudson River Radio dot Com, m HM
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