S10 E1 | Meet the hosts + a sneak peak into Season 10! - The Angular Plus Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Angular Plus Show. We're app developers of
all kinds share their insights and experiences. Let's get started.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Angular
Plus Show. My name is Brian Love and I'm going
to be your host today, and I am joined by
a bunch of really wonderful people, some of the folks
you've probably heard on this podcast and you're very experienced with.
And we have a surprise and a new person that's
joining us this season as one of the hosts for
the podcast. And so without further Ado definitely want to

(00:43):
welcome everybody back to season ten. We have an excellent
lineup schedule for this season. We're going to be covering
topics ranging from software architecture, signal forms, MFPs, native federation
and more. We've already started recording and so we're really
excited about this season. And of course there's a lot
happening in the tech space, and so come join us
as we journey into angler and AI and everything else

(01:06):
that's all around that. Let me go ahead and introduce
our hosts. Laura, you're first because I looked at you first,
So go ahead and say hi and welcome everybody back.
To season ten.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Hello and welcome everybody back to season ten.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
John, Laura, Good John.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
You know that was a great response to my instruction
and prompt. It was like I said, say hello to everybody,
welcome back to season ten, and like a good model,
Laura was like, hello everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
You followed instructions as well as called instructions.

Speaker 5 (01:38):
This morning we were just talking about a starboard. We
need to give her ten stars ten stars.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
I am highly motivated by arbitrary rewards.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Perfect, Laura. It's so great to have you back on
the show and great that you're here a long time
contributor to the Angler community. I know you just got
back from Casey d C. I'm sure it was fun.
I saw some of the pictures in the Angular slack channel.
I just said a big shout out to Laura for
everything that she does contributing to the community, talks and
mentoring and everything that you're doing. Say a little bit

(02:14):
more to the people, Lara. I'm sure people want to
hear from you.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Go ahead, Lara was born and no, I'm just kidding.
So yeah, I'm always happy to be here. Kind of
like just hanging out with friends once a week, which
is not an unpleasant thing. Casey DC was great, fantastic conference,
great attendance, lots of great sponsors. You know, I got

(02:41):
an opportunity to go around and talk to each one,
and then there were just you know, there are quite
a few of us from the Angular community, which is
always like a special treat. Sometimes I can go to
the like Polyglot conferences and just sort of like disappear,
but definitely one where there were enough of us that
pretty much every corner I went around, somebody's like Laura,

(03:02):
So this is good to see it.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
That's really fun. I enjoy going to some of those conferences.
Years back when I lived in Denver, they had developed Denver.
I don't know if it's still running, but it was
kind of the same thing. It was kind of like
a more focused on like locale rather than technology, but
it brought together everything from you know, c I, CD DevOps,
like all the way down the pipe, you know, front end,

(03:24):
back end, multiple languages. I'm sure mL and AI was
represented and all of those things. And so it's always
fun because you get to learn new things and you
meet new people, and you sit down and you listen
to somebody talk and you go, wow, I didn't know that,
so really good to be able to go to those conferences.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
It's cool to get to talk with people from other
communities as well. So I gave a talk about signals
in the script, and so she wasn't just an angular audience.
You know, there were reactives, judas, people that don't write
front encode. So it was nice to have. Just it's
nice to kind of talk to other people outside of
the community as well, just to kind of, you know,

(04:03):
see what I don't always know what's going on in
other ecosystems, and so it's nice to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
It's always good to have that exposure, right, I think
it kind of rounds us out of as technologist. Maybe
there's a life lesson in there too, but I don't
I'm not trying to get any stars here, so but
I feel like the next natural segue here is is
My Boy. Also from My Boy, do let's go.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Week.

Speaker 6 (04:34):
Yeah, before we talk about me, I have a very
generine question for you, Brian. Oh no, So you started
this episode with like a very intentional break and then
you were like, my name is Brian Love. So question
was that just rhetorical just like very skilled, like to
emphasize that your name is Brian Lop or did you
just forget your name for a second?

Speaker 7 (04:56):
I totally get it.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
My inner monologue was like, what are you going to say?
And I think that the pause was like do I
say my name? Do I like? How deep do I
go here? I don't know.

Speaker 6 (05:08):
I like the level of reflection because I just usually
just like say it straight out and usually regretted like
five minutes afterwards.

Speaker 7 (05:15):
But it's like, oh, that was so.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah, more information than I meant to.

Speaker 7 (05:24):
Be. So what should I start call myself J?

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Bell? Yes all the time?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
What does your mom call you J? That's the real
question when you're in trouble?

Speaker 4 (05:39):
Well, when I'm in jump. When I'm in trouble is
Jay Cooper. They got Jaoper if I get called in trouble.
But my nickname growing up was like Buzz or buzzy.

Speaker 7 (05:50):
Oh. I was so hopeful that was Belly. I would
be like that is no, not Belly.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
No, Yeah, but will call me that to this day,
like my parents will call even like over tax will
call me buzz.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
There's a starry there there.

Speaker 6 (06:12):
We're not just like drunk as a teenager cons what
happened there?

Speaker 4 (06:16):
No, it's much simpler, and it always a little energy.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I'm gonna go with energy energy, like you know, it's
like he's got a lot of energy.

Speaker 5 (06:24):
I think you guys have nicknames too, Larry, Larry Son
through nicknames.

Speaker 7 (06:31):
We wait too serious for that.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
I'm gonna I was gonna make a German joke about
you for you. My friends called me Blas not very original.

Speaker 5 (06:42):
But okay, okay, yeah, yeah, Larry Larry is a good one.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah. It's because my name is Laura, it gets mispronounced Lara.
And then when they took it one step further, and
there was this one woman in the office who insisted
on calling me Larry every time she'd say my name,
and so then my friend started calling me Larry, and
then my dad thought it was funny, and so he
still calls me. I love it. Yeah, I just like

(07:09):
find my other like I have. Lara is the Dirk
that messes everything up, and then Larry is just like
the guy that tests my apps.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
So do you put it in your testcout? Do you
like do like Larry? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (07:22):
Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Like my users on my on my little demo apps
are always Laura, Laura and Larry.

Speaker 7 (07:29):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
I see that a lot with like developers, can you
get insight into like you see like their test coode
of test strings and stuff and you're like okay, cool music, lyrics, whatever,
movies like.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Pop culture, it's usually like random like TV shows, like
I like to use fictional like TV character pseudonyms, you know,
so like Jackie jrm jomp from Dirty Rock and Nice.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Trials. We have like an unofficial mascot he named Leafy
because our logos like a leaf from the old days.
So one of the old designers made Leafy just like
so like little arms in the face and stuff, and
like the developers just like lashed onto it. I mean
it was a joke one day. We just lashed onto it.
So now like everything we do is like Leafy related.

(08:15):
So like a lot of it's like like Leafy McGhee
will be like her test name and stuff like that,
and like like step files and stuff like that, so
that Leafy's all over the code base. It's great.

Speaker 6 (08:27):
Have you do you have like a troll Twitter account
with Leafy? We have that for Cody the mascot.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
That's funny, but no we don't. It's so funny.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Are we're gonna get back that track? The listener is
probably like, what are they going to talk about? So
just in case at this point, if you've gotten to
this point in the recording and you skip a couple
of times and you're like, what tech are they going
to talk about? We don't know what we're going to
talk about. Every season we do kind of an intro
to the hosts, a kind of the team, so we

(09:00):
you can get to know us a little bit. So
if you're looking for like a really in depth dive
into like Module Federation, this is not it. You'll want
to subscribe, and we're gonna have Manford on the on
the podcast here in a couple of weeks and you'll
be able to get all the deeds on Module Federation
and Angular the Torenty. But we need to go back
to Yon because Jan, I don't know if you were deflecting,

(09:22):
but please do introduce yourself and tell us a little
bit about what you do and maybe a hobby, and
maybe a little bit about who.

Speaker 7 (09:30):
That's a lot of instructions for one.

Speaker 6 (09:32):
My name is Janicholas Workman, originally from Germany, moved to
this lovely country of freedom and gloriousness. I'm developer advocate
at jet Brains. So you hear me probably draw web
Storm once or twice an episode and talk about VS
code for obvious reasons. We don't say those names here,

(09:53):
but the ones that is not supposed to be named
what I also have, like really best for her brain.
So you ask a couple of questions, but I already
forget it.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Anything I know anything in terms of like your hobbies orbies.

Speaker 6 (10:09):
Yeah, usually with my family life is taking up a
good amount of time. I love playing board games, usually
one once a season at least. Jay and I started
talking about magic, and last season with Q we had
like half an episode about Frostaving, so that was great.
I have way too many hobbies to be serious, to

(10:29):
be honest, and Jennifer is super annoyed by that.

Speaker 7 (10:32):
Usually because I start with.

Speaker 6 (10:34):
The hobby goes super deep into I spend way too
much money just to drop it like two weeks later.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
Ses you didn't do that with you though, what your
coffee hobby has stuck or.

Speaker 7 (10:44):
Is that that is true?

Speaker 6 (10:46):
My coffee hobby has stuck, But I also spend more
than just a couple of thousands on that hobby, so
I have like some human decency, you know where you're
like so down that rebel hood that you cannot go back. Yeah,
you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 7 (10:59):
Guy with a cabin.

Speaker 6 (11:03):
Family, Kevin, I'm sorry and I forgot this.

Speaker 7 (11:07):
Charlie and the Man Aspen, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
Oh yeah, little shoe swapping in BC definitely just like Aspen.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
H Well, thanks so much for that. That was a
great introduction. Thanks John, you really crushed it. Yeah, sun cops,
sunk cost fallacy I think is what you're referring to
with your hobbies. Yeah, it bites sometimes, got to watch
out for it. Okay, next step, Brooke. We are super

(11:38):
excited to have you on the podcast. For those of
you that don't know Brook Brook has been in the
Angular community for many years as an Angular developer expert.
I know you'd give talks and you help co organize
slash lead rally the Yeah cat herding for the Angular meetup,
and so if you haven't heard of the Angler meetup,
go on meetup dot com. You can check that out.

(11:59):
It is online and I know you do in English
as well as Spanish, and so yeah, welcome to the podcast.
We are just super excited to have you on this season,
and I think the listeners are going to love to
hear how you think and how you approach things. I
know you come from a learning background and kind of
the way you bring that, we'll be really excellent on

(12:20):
the podcast. And so we're just excited to have you here,
and so just a warm welcome and go ahead and
introduce yourself a little bit more.

Speaker 5 (12:26):
Well, yeah, thank you, I'm excited to be here. Yeah,
like you said, I kind of in one of those
devs that has taken a windy path to get where
I am. But I guess, like Joan, you know, I
think having many interests is good.

Speaker 7 (12:43):
So have a master's. My wallet disagrees with you.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
Well it makes you interesting, I guess. But yeah, background
and teaching masters in education kind of came from that
route and then just learned about programming because I was
in ed tech and then I went to boot camp,
left teaching immediately, was connected with Joe Eames and the

(13:12):
ng comp crew. So like literally Angular has been a
part of my developer journey from like day one, and
I have no intentions of leaving, mostly a lot of
because of the community and the people, and I just
love the people that you get to meet and how
generous and kind everybody is. So I'm now the director.

(13:34):
I have a co director, Chris Perco, and I lead
the Angular community meetup we do have online. But some
kind of cool news everybody. We've actually started doing in
person events again for the first time since COVID.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (13:48):
Yeah, Yeah, and then we are now organizing our first
We've just connected with the GDG program Google Google Developer Groups,
so we're organizing our first dev fest for Salt Lake
City and we're gonna do it October eleventh, but in person, free,

(14:10):
and it's gonna be awesome. So yeah, it's a little
bit about me.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, and those the depth fests are great. I've been one,
maybe two, just similar to what Laura and I were
talking about, Like it certainly focused on like the Google
kind of ecosystem, but you get lots of different things,
you know, again, all the way from like web and
mL and Android and Cotlin and it's like you get
a lot of exposure at those things. So I've enjoyed

(14:36):
them in the past.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
Yeah, they're like totally grassroots feeling. It's just you know,
like you go to some movie starter conferences and it's great,
it's wonderful, but like when you get down to that. Oh,
there's so much fun totally.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, Yeah, they're great. I mean you can learn more
about those just Google search Google Developer Groups, and I
think they're all across the world. There's Yeah, there'sople that
organize them, and that's kind of like a sibling program,
I think, in like underneath the Google Developers umbrella is
like the GDE program, which is kind of like individual experts,

(15:12):
and then you have the GDG program, which is like
groups either organized around a specific technology or region or
something like that, and I know they get a little
bit of funding and support, but tons of effort goes
in is just volunteer and folks like yourself that are
just passionate about technology and want to get together and
hang out with other people and learn.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, there's also Google Developers Student groups as well. So yeah,
and so if you're a student that's listening, like Google
has information on the website about that. It's a really
great way to kind of hook into community and just
start to especially you know, it's hard to find a
job now these like right now, especially early career devs,

(15:53):
and so it's a great way to sort of establish
yourself in the community and just start to meet other
technologists if you will so, and then you get support
from Google as well. Yeah, like we're gonna buy you
treat some stuff.

Speaker 7 (16:08):
And do they all have stars?

Speaker 5 (16:12):
They do?

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Sometimes I get stickers. I'm from the eighties and I
love stickers.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
So the stickers are still like a hot commodity for like,
you know, preschoolers. So yeah, well, I guess for everybody.
I guess everybody looked at me like, what are you
talking about, Briane like loads of stickers. Okay, sorry, I
got lost.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
From all the conferences I go through this just like
a giant pile on this little like counter.

Speaker 7 (16:36):
Right a le Why do you have a leafy sticker?

Speaker 4 (16:41):
I don't have any leaf all that cat That's.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
When I got at Uh. It says I code so
my cat can have a better life.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
Mm yeah, and all from that says like shiny silveries.
I code for cat food. Is that what it says
on it?

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah? I have that one's on my laptop. This one
was from Don't Panic Labs dot com, just to call
them out for their cool sticker. They also have the
dog version because some of us don't have cats. We
have dogs, and you might be coding for your dogs.
In theory, they could have one that like a human
baby as well, but no, that.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
One's important so funny, it's not as cute for some reason.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
I mean, I like legally have to code for them anyway, but.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
There's some debate there supposed to. Let me wrap up
THO real quick, Brook, just thank you so much for
coming on joining us. Really looking forward to having you
on the podcast and bringing your educational experience and all
of that, and so it's we're really excited to have
you here. So uh, this is like the thank you,
like free thank you for doing all the work you're
about to do, you know, it's.

Speaker 7 (17:49):
Like, yeah, O get great.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, and some of the last but not least, we're
super excited to welcome back for season ten. Jab. I
don't know how to introduce Jay other than a large
Canadian man that loves angular. I guess I'm just gonna
that's like assumed, right. I think the model would be

(18:13):
like Canadian large, probably flannel, right, and red flannel because angular,
So I mean, like I think the bottle could could
get it pretty close. Jay, say hello to the people
and and welcome back.

Speaker 7 (18:25):
Then.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Hi, my name is Jay. I definitely own a couple
of red flannels. I may cut trees down and get
worse and stuff like that. So I am. I come
from a bit of a red neck family as well,
so you know, I got a little bit of.

Speaker 7 (18:42):
That my blood.

Speaker 6 (18:43):
I caught you bus called because I used to puse
my hair like super super sup.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
I was a very different kid than I am.

Speaker 7 (18:56):
A dolt.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Happen job, Let take me.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
I'm coming to my own.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
That's funny in some way, I suppose we all have
or are mean in that past.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
I actually went right back to that dork. I was
in like sixth grade.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
So I'm just I'm just it was.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Jay tell us a little bit about what you do
for work though in the nonprofit that you work for
that you're the CTO of, and what you guys do
and and some of the maybe a little bit of
the architecture and some of the challenges that y'all face.

Speaker 7 (19:30):
It it's not a nonprofit that you well, we.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
Were we it was like like I was a whole
time profit a lot.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
He just tells the non profits and he gets the money.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
Sure, it's kind of one way to put it.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
I think I think somehow somewhere I'm so sorry, J.
But you like went down a notch like I don't know,
I thought like you worked for this nonprofit and.

Speaker 7 (19:56):
Like nothing else. Hard.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
No, sorry, it's all good.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
I'm sorry that like I assumed and I'm sorry that
in my head right there, I like dropped you down
the notch. That's not fair, Like I really do appreciate
you as a person, whether you get are a nonprofit
or not.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
So no, no, I'm the CTO founder of Trellis dot org,
which is a fundraising or.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, it's because I think because of dot org, I
just assumed.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
That it was no profit. I'm not gonna.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Miss anyways.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
We try to.

Speaker 5 (20:39):
So happened.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
We've had a lot longer than Charles has been around
a by like three or four x so. But you know,
I build tech at Trellis. I managed the tech team.
I work on everything from Angular to c I to
certainly Statabase is like the whole kind of ship bang
right now.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
So yeah, oh G full stack O G G full
stack literally not just like back in front end, like
the whole thing, the whole thing, the.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Whole the new like part of the stack is that
now fu is that fuller stack kind of like how
they made house.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
I feel like I'm not sure devs that you have
to control, Like, I feel like it's just like one
more thing you got to keep an eye on.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
So I guess it is admin.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Junior deaf I have by far takes the most amount
of my time out of any junior deaf I've ever had.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Exactly exactly.

Speaker 6 (21:40):
You already put out a statement like every other CEO
C two, how much code off your in your code.

Speaker 7 (21:46):
Base is written by these days?

Speaker 6 (21:48):
We have not put out Yeah, you maybe should. Maybe
that's why everyone thinks a nonprofit here.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Here's my advice. Just throw out a number. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
I am like tracking it internally just so we can
human versus AI to see like where we're at kind
of thing. But I'm definitely not being like, well, we're
replacing thirty percent of our workforce with AI now.

Speaker 7 (22:08):
Well, but I like to get my work.

Speaker 6 (22:09):
With like six months and then the topic CEO saying
that ninety percent off the code will be written by
I so in six months, So I think we're quite on,
quite good on time.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Yeah, people say crazy crazy.

Speaker 7 (22:23):
Stuff all the time, such a great bubble.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
What I say is I can try to do one
hundred percent of my tasks with AI, but I won't
necessarily succeeded one hundred percent of them.

Speaker 7 (22:32):
No, well close do you succeed though? Without the I TBD?

Speaker 3 (22:37):
I mean, like, you know what, there are still some
things where I'm like, this is broken and I don't
know why and I don't know how to fix it. Like,
I still do run into those problems. So I would say, like,
but I can one hundred percent start every task, but
we'll like get a satisfactory like resolution out of it,

(22:58):
maybe not like you. I do pretty good. That's why
they pay me money.

Speaker 7 (23:02):
But.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
You have to have a certain success rate to get
the paycheck. But weirdly people aren't solving any problems. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
I think that's a great segue into what I would
like to maybe talk about, which is will maybe be
a little fun. Let's go around and let's just mention
a little bit about some of the maybe AI tools
that we're using and kind of how we're enjoying our
disliking it. So I'll go first, because I know I
just threw that out to you. I already had it
in my brain while Laura was doing a great job

(23:41):
there entertaining our guests. I was like, Hm, this is
the next thing I want to talk about, and so
I've already thought a little bit about it, and I'm
making more time here for you all to continue to think.
So you're welcome. I think some of the tools that
I'm enjoying the most, certainly cursor AI has been a
big part of my workflow. Started to get into Claude.

(24:01):
I feel like I'm kind of a little bit of
a late to the game in terms of Claude. I'm
still learning a little bit around that and very interested
in it.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Claude code. Ryan like, are you just using Claude like
you would use like Chan should be, or using plod code.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
See that's how I knew. I I sorry, I yeah,
that's you can laugh at me on It's okay, you can.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
He's laughing as a cursor, not because of claud code him.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Sorry, I know. I can go into a whole thing.
I actually have like traditionally been probably I was the
s code. I think I did about two to three
years with WebStorm as my full prime editor. And I
know that you don't want to hear this. I'm so sorry.
But now with the cursor stuff, I do find myself
back in VS code land, and I do bring with

(24:49):
me honestly, And I'm not trying to like butter up
you or WebStorm, but I do miss some of the
things in WebStorm. I'm just like, why can't I just
search it? Why can't I search? Maybe I missed doing
this wrong. I'm sure somebody's gonna be like, oh, Brian,
you need this extension, But like I just want to
search for a symbol throughout my entire code base, like
and I have to like do like you have the constantly,

(25:09):
I just find myself. Maybe I'm lazy, like command ship
that is not.

Speaker 7 (25:12):
That is not to be a codeway.

Speaker 6 (25:14):
You just do a string search because that's a very
sophisticated approach.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
No, but I get a lot of noise, right, and
so like really really see more about it. Yeah, exactly,
he's gonna like, yeah, you can send the check. I'll
give you my address later. But like I do miss
some of those things. But then at the same token,
I did try using some of the jet Brains AI stuff.
And maybe he's a little critical, but like and I
had co pilot installed as far as uh, I know,

(25:39):
this isn't like directly web Storm or whatever. But I
found the completions to be missing a little bit. I
didn't really jive with it well, didn't have quite the
agentic experience that I was getting in claude excuse me,
in Cursor, and so I kind of found myself over
there for some tasks I do.

Speaker 7 (25:56):
We all make mistakes. Point, that's okay, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
You know, I'm still figuring this whole thing out called life.
And if I come back as part of my life,
Jared yell, I'll let you know. But anyways, so I
think I've burned up plenty of time, so I think
you all have had enough time to kind of think
through your answers. So I don't we just somebody just
raise your hand and go. I don't want to like
call out someone. Let's go into reverse. So Jay, you're

(26:23):
first damnaired.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
One thing that we've been using a lot, So like
we use one storm, So there's four people on my
team to peoplease one storm, two people use vias code.
Don't even d on it's not going to happen. Be
happy that you got fifty percent, okay.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Someone that's just muscle memory though, right, I mean, like
I find myself like command shift O to like open
a file and it say I have the command pee,
which I like the command palate and anyways, anyway, muscle
my Briani, I hear you. Yes, you have the talking stack.

Speaker 7 (27:02):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
The one the major tool that we've been using recently
is code gen. So Cogen dot com is a new
like you know, AI agent kind of thing, and it
has like a really really really really quality AI integration
with Linear, which is our product management tool, so like
it's like seamless kind of thing, and it integrates all
with all of our tools, century our database Pigma. It

(27:25):
has custom MCP tool support, so I have like the
NXMCP and the Angular MCP in there now and all
that kind of stuff you can like put in your
own organ report rules, et cetera, et cetera. So like
that's been really good for us because we're going through
a couple like big refactors right now, where like you know,
we have hundreds or thousands of libraries and it's like, hey,
we want to do the same thing over and over

(27:46):
and over again. We'll just read up one really good
ticket and Linear for it, get Cogen defined all the
places they need to get changed, make sub tickets for
it and then tell it to execute on your sub ticket,
and then I'll go open up pull request for each
one kind of thing, the same thing repeatedly over and
over again, like maybe like for example, one thing we're
doing right now is switching are like sort of end

(28:09):
to end test suites for our servers over to like
a more of an integration suite that's actually runing against
a real real cluster and switching from just to v test.
So it's a munch of like can fig files that
need to change and like all that kind of like
little things and whatever. So we're like we just have
like one kind of linear template and we say, okay,
can now go do it for this one and then
you just assign it to Cogen and then it just

(28:30):
goes and does it and then opens the porcust and
you can do it all from the linear UI. It's fantastic.
So we're really loving Cogen.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
It's it sounds like writing a code like an ex
plug in, but you don't have to actually write the
plug in.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
But I use it for a lot of like my
now so stuff on like hey Cogen, like go write
me a script that will analyze the number of prs
that we've been making for humans versus bots and then
run it every week on our ci and posted to
slack in this channel. Yeah kind of thing, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Man, thanks for sharing. Yeah, I appreciate it. I have
not heard of that. I love that. Uh, that's one
of my favorite things Laura mentioned. We get to hang
out together and learn and that's I love that. I
haven't heard of that. So thanks for dropping that. Man.
We'll have that in the show notes Cogen dot Comok,
I think you're next.

Speaker 5 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah, so I will double what you said. With
Cursor and Claude, that's been a huge one for us
at our company Limble. We use that all the time.
So like I feel like you kind of covered it.
I won't dive into that one very much more. But
the other two somewhat more for fun but code related,

(29:45):
like one that I use more if I'm doing writing
tasks or I don't know, just like everyday stuff is perplexity.
I find that that one, like far Out does chat GBT.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Like my my wife Bonnie, is a huge span of perplexity.
They use it as her office. She's a CPA and
accountant and does like small business financial consulting, and she just, yeah,
they love it. So I hear about it all the time.
You know. The one thing it.

Speaker 5 (30:13):
Does not do, and that I will say chat GPT
does better is if you want to generate an image
of some kind, chat GPT has total you know, bragging
it over perplexity. But yeah, anything like writing or whatever.
And then one that I've recently been just I've just
been completely dorking out on it. I have so much

(30:34):
fun sitting there. I've built entire like social media applications
in ten minutes on Bolt. So if you have not
discovered Bolt, which is a new product of Stackplits, this
is like, it is so much fun. So that one
I would just say, if you just have like a
side project or something, go go have fun. Just play.

(30:57):
It's like it's totally a sandbox, you know, just get
you excited to sit down and code a game. But
it gives you such a great base to start with,
and yeah, super fun.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
I had a friend who he got laid off and
he was looking for new work, and so we met
and kind of just talked through like what he could
do to polish up his resume and stuff, and he
used Bolt just to test out like kind of get
back in because he had been doing management and he
was going back into engineering and so just to kind

(31:30):
of catch up on what's like what's new, like what's
out there, Like, oh, if you haven't been in an
angular world for a while, you're coming back into it.
You can spin up an Angular app and bold that
new if you're like, oh, I want to apply for
this view job but I don't know anything about it, Like,
you can spin up an app there as well. And
so yeah, it's he said, and I quote, I had

(31:50):
to tell it to slow down.

Speaker 5 (31:53):
Like literally, I told it to build me an entire
social media application in like in ten minutes. It's it
had this beautiful apple exactly as I asked for. And yeah,
I mean you have to really learn the prompts, just
like with any AI, you know, but it was it
was so much fun.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
That's really cool. Yeah. I've had a chance to play
with it early on, but I haven't touched it lately,
so I imagine they're continued to improve it. Yeah, and
so yeah, definitely if you haven't heard of that, bolt
on new and wow, good for the Stacklets team. Quite
the hockey stick moment for them. So that's fantastic. Yeah,
uh yeah, yeah. I was looking at Jay, but I

(32:36):
was like, go ahead.

Speaker 6 (32:38):
I mean, it's a little bit difficult because that's part
of my job. I kind of need to play with
all of those. I'm like figuring out what's going on,
right though.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, the one that we haven't talked about then, since
you've got a wide breast.

Speaker 6 (32:51):
And obviously I have to pick thees I sweet, please
tell us about it.

Speaker 7 (32:57):
So we have AI.

Speaker 6 (32:57):
Assistant, which is basically chat that has drastically improved over.

Speaker 7 (33:01):
The last three four months.

Speaker 6 (33:03):
I would say, we have MCP integration, we have open
I integration, we have what else is there? We have
a prompt library, so that for instance, if you say so,
you can from webstom you can generate commit messages. But
you want to generate them in a certain format, you
can adjust the prompt for that purpose. For instance, we

(33:23):
have all Tier one model supports that you can switch
through between what you want. We also, and that is
the more exciting part, train our own models within jet Brains.
So we have a engineers that are like tweaking models
and stuff, and we have open source them last a
couple of months ago.

Speaker 7 (33:42):
So for everything, right.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's on hockey face. Okay, cool, I didn't know that.
Very cool.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
So we have code completion within the ide is driven
from our personal from our own models. So that's a
kind of interesting piece because we kind of have like
a different philosophy than like copilot or something. We've coined
us term focal models for that, which is like so
Nvidia Runner study and they published it like last week.

(34:14):
I think where it's basically for most companies, it's going
to be long term more viable to run small model
or a combination of various small models over one large model.
Like I don't want to talk shit about VC money,
but a little bit. I think a lot of the
things like curser and stuff is going to either implode

(34:34):
at some point, have a drastic price hike, or it's
going to be a quiet by Microsoft primarily didn't they just.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
Have a price hike like a week and a half
ago and watch them lost their minds.

Speaker 6 (34:47):
It's it's still by no means still not carrying the load,
right right, but yes, people also lost their mind.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
Yeah, they're like, what what happened to my twenty dollars
a month inscription?

Speaker 6 (34:59):
The fact that I was high the surprise by the
prices of coaching. What do you mention because at least
like the individual.

Speaker 7 (35:05):
Price, it is ridiculous cheap.

Speaker 6 (35:08):
But uh, for linear support, I saw you need to
have like their enterprise account, and I was kind of curious
to see at least according to their pricing, we don't
have price count. Oh no, it's also listened their teams.
My bad individure. It's what, Okay, it's not bad anyway.

(35:29):
So melum so I think chept is like one something
trillion parameters model just to put it in relationship said
something like.

Speaker 7 (35:39):
That, something like that.

Speaker 6 (35:40):
Yeah, that's uh, and melum is I think four billion,
So it's literally really can just generate code for you.

Speaker 7 (35:47):
M h. And that's all it's supposed to.

Speaker 6 (35:50):
Whereas chechipt can do your travel planning and stuff, right, yeah,
whatever for that purpose is faster and also cheaper to
run for us, and in general local we have support.
So it's more complex than that because we have a
cloud version that we have a local version that is

(36:10):
particular trained for a language that you can download and
that runs offline. Then, but we also have limited support
for offline models. So if you decide, oh, I want
to run deep s three on my machine because I
have way too much memory right now. We also have
limited support for that. We're still identifying use cases for that,
so there's not everything works completely offline.

Speaker 7 (36:32):
I don't want to make that promise.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
And then the other thing we have is June, our
coding agent, and I think we published that in April.

Speaker 7 (36:44):
Have it now rolled out to most.

Speaker 6 (36:46):
IDs as far as I know, I think Sea Lion
is still missing. But the other thing we're working on
that is a gitub integration. That's what I've been playing
around with a lot, where it can like basically create
tickets for Junie and be like, hey, change a color
scheme because this might do a code with you while
I'm sitting a meeting.

Speaker 7 (37:03):
So that's pretty.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Nice, very cool.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
Yeah, more ways for me to do things dream meetings.
I love it.

Speaker 7 (37:11):
Yeah. I was also very pleased professional.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, do you do you envision this? Like just asking
you that's not like asking Jet Brains or whatever, but like,
do you envision a future where like as developers will
probably you know, I was, I was chatting with me
back up a little bit. I was chatting with my
buddy Mike, and I was like, you know, It's interesting,
like I remember, like I bought a developer machine like
whatever five ten years ago that had thirty gigs thirty

(37:38):
two gigs a BRAM, and like my development machine today
has like thirty two gigs of RAM. It's like I
kind of like like they're doing us like this. Maybe
I'm old like a climb like a ramp up, and
then we just kind of plateaued in terms of like, well,
that's about all I need, right unless I'm running like
a ton of like local infra like Docker and stuff
like that or something, maybe you'd go sixty four or whatever.

(38:00):
Do you envision a future where like our developer machines
will be kind of like a beefy local model running
and then like a hybrid cloud for like complex reasoning
and stuff like that. Or I'm just wondering what you think.

Speaker 7 (38:14):
I mean. I don't. I don't.

Speaker 6 (38:16):
I don't see that, to be super honest, because running
those models in the capacity that makes sense for chet purpose,
for instance, is extremely expensive, and local models are also
very slow if you run them not on a sufficiently
stacked machine. Yeah, what I do think is going to
be very much going to happen. And we've seen this
with some of our customers is that they train their

(38:37):
own models and help them for everyone in their infrastructure.
I would be surprised that that's like, I mean, like
they have their code and GIT or some kind of
repository training A model based on that totally makes sense.
It's going to consider patterns that are established within the
company automatically.

Speaker 7 (38:56):
On those things.

Speaker 6 (38:56):
So I would be surprised if that's not going to happen.
I didn't mean to cut the apologize, but I also
don't think this is going to happen a year or
two at least, not for like generally availability like obviously
A fortunately found a different conversation with the infrastructure teams
and stuff, but for like small to medium sized companies,
it's still too expensive to run those models. So and

(39:20):
and well train and run those models both, it's pretty expensive.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Very cool, man, we'll takes our sharing all that and
you're welcome, Jet Prince. Who is now it's Laura's Hilary.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Hey, y'all, apologies.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
La. What tools are you guys using?

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah, so a lot of what we've been focusing on
so our doves on our teams, we can use Cursor
windsor WebStorm co pilot on this vs code. So we're
lucky in that sense. We have h on lombited tokens
or whatever. You know, they're like, you know, it's okay

(40:05):
if you go over your budget. We're like, okay. But
a lot of what we're doing on our team now
are trying to solve the problems that I think a
lot of teams experience with AI, which is that you
do get lower quality pull requests coming in from your
developers because you're saying, hey, solve this problem, and it'll

(40:27):
fix it, and it'll do it in a very weird
way that it pulled off a stacklots or somewhere else
on the internet. And you know, as a senior deb
I look at that code and I'm like, oh, yeah, no,
that is not going to get merged. Or I'm like,
this is handling it in the like most inefficient weird
way possible, you know. So we're trying to start putting

(40:48):
up guardrails, you know, We're looking into like custom chat
modes and stuff in copilot so that we can sort
of package up these tasks that we need people to
be able to and so that we're getting better results
out of it. Because I think That's been our biggest
frustration as seniors on the team is just the amount,

(41:09):
Like I don't love doing poll request reviews. I don't
mind it. It's obviously part of it's a very important
part of the job. But there's a big difference when
you're like, Okay, Andy wrote this, and he's salt, like
he's usually rock solid. I can like, I can trust
him that it's well tested, you know, like I still
review it. But then when you're like, oh, Copilot wrote it,
you have like that level of trust is gone because

(41:31):
you also are gonna get.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
It, Like you really gotta like fine tooth comt.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Kind of thing exactly exactly, and you never know which
version of Copilot you're gonna get that day, right like
it it it's not deterministic, it's not the same thing
every time, and so we spend a lot of time
doing that. But then we also get to do fun
stuff like developing AI tools for our customers. And so

(41:57):
there's I'm just gonna I'm gonna plug Cisco because they
also make by Paycheck. But the Cisco GSX event is
coming up at the end of September, and they have
a lot of just really exciting stuff that they have
that they're ready to sort of introduce just different AI tools.
You know, our goal is to help our customers understand

(42:20):
the help of their networks and providing them AI tools
to do that. And I like that actually is exciting
because it's like, all right, hey, yeah, that is something
that AI is really good at, is analyzing data and
helping people understand. So yeah, it's kind of one.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
Thing I've noticed with like this, like so many new
AI tools coming into play and everybody using so much more. Like,
first off, if you didn't already have like a full
ci CD setup running, like do that because you're decades
behind at this point. But for people using all these
new AI tools now, like you really want a very

(43:01):
strict CI so that c I can fail on all
the very obvious stuff that AI is going to fail on, right,
Like it's gonna mess up your linting rules full start,
it's not gonna get your linking rules right, it's not
gonna be your formatting right, it's not gonna get Does
JUNY get that right? Is that way?

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Please?

Speaker 6 (43:27):
You want to strict as possible if you're using I
completely agree with you. The thing where juni is great
is that we have deep language integration, so we do
know about linting rules.

Speaker 7 (43:38):
We do know about those things.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
And that's totally fair. You still want a strict of
CI as possible. And I'm not just talking about tests,
like you need test too, and you should have had
those to begin with, but like I'm talking about way
more than just testing here, Like you want to be
making sure that all kinds of stuff is in force,
because like these models are are not good at not

(44:02):
messing things up randomly that make no sense whatsoever. Like
you know, even the tools we use, they'll commit these
like random files sometimes that like it was a file
that it wrote to do some kind of migration that
it included that in the poll request or like you know,
its just like messes up the module boundaries which would
have got caught yolent rule or just like all kinds
of stuff like that that's like beyond just the actual

(44:25):
like unit tests and and ten tests that you have running.

Speaker 6 (44:29):
Are used to running elint within leafy, am.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
We running slink within leafy.

Speaker 6 (44:36):
Yes, I mean like as part of your linting strategy,
are you usinglin or did you migrate to biome or no,
it's still it's still Okay, because usually you're more like
the the one that I can discuss those things with
outside of being your community.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
Okay, fair, No, no, we're we're just trying to get
caught up on enabling our lint rules before we move
off into a different tool. If we try to move
to a different tool.

Speaker 7 (44:58):
Kind of just curious.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Yeah, still e Islinn.

Speaker 8 (45:03):
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Speaker 7 (45:13):
Yeah? Me too.

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(45:46):
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Speaker 2 (46:00):
Well, thank you, well, thank you everybody for answering those questions.
I think it's really cool, like there's just a there
is definitely an explosion of tools. I think there's a
lot of things that are valuable. I think I think
everybody did a great job of just kind of irrational
with like the pros and cons of these things and
trying to understand like what can we use as developers,

(46:22):
Like what's helping us, what's what's hurting us? How can
we also put some guardrails in place. I heard that
from Laura as well as Jay, and you know, how
do we kind of still maintain code quality while also
using these tools to maybe hopefully like increase velocity or
maybe increased test coverage. I think there's a couple of
different areas like that that there's some potential here.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Yeah, will at least it makes the boring stuff easier.
Like I do not love writing documentation, and so I
can say, okay, I want to document kind of do
it like this. Here's an example of it being used.
You know, like all this stuff and it does a
pretty good job. It's really verbos. It's like, you know,
you have to go through and be like, okay, like

(47:06):
you know, cut out half of the words you just used.
But you know, like those kind of tasks. It definitely
makes it. It makes my life a lot easier just
because it's documentation is so important, especially if you're using
AI tools. But also it just sucks to write it.

Speaker 7 (47:24):
You know.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
I like it for the teaching and learning value too.
I mean you can sit there and say like, okay,
why you ask it? Why this?

Speaker 7 (47:30):
Why that?

Speaker 5 (47:31):
So I think it's it's a it's kind of nice
to have a little teacher like looking over your shoulder
the whole.

Speaker 4 (47:36):
Time I used it to learn go one time.

Speaker 5 (47:39):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
It's like it could be like is this bad code,
or like is this like not the kind of code
I want to merge? Or do I just not understand.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
It ijavascript for my whole career? Or is this like
is this weird?

Speaker 6 (47:59):
I feel it teaching is super interesting because I could
also see a more like negative side of things, where
like developers are getting more productive without understanding this, and
then business being like well chip mare code.

Speaker 7 (48:10):
Chip mark code.

Speaker 6 (48:10):
Right, Yeah, so that's a little bit what I'm concerned
with where I can see it like, yes, it can
have a positive impact if you have that level of
reflection of like, Okay, why why does this work and
why didn't work the way I tried it to do.
But if you don't have that cognizanve level of making
this decision and you're just shipping code, then you're like
hopefully having someone like Glower reading all that code and
be like nope, decline.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
We actually had a great intern, I'm sorry book. So
we had this great intern, Eisha, and she joined. She
was brand new to Angular and so she needed to
learn Angular. And she actually was like, can I just
not use Copilot? Can I start these myself and then
just use it if I get stuck? And I'm like, brilliant, yes,

(48:52):
because she's like, I just I want to actually learn
this stuff. I don't feel like I'm learning it when
Copilot just spits it out for me.

Speaker 5 (48:59):
And so her.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Strategy was to try to solve the problem herself. If
she got stuck, then try co pilot, and then if
she was still stuck, then start paying people to say, Hey,
I'm stuck or is this a good idea that was suggested,
So I thought that was a great way to sort
of handle it. And I think that is probably the

(49:20):
biggest space that I have the most concerned, Like the
senior devs. I'm not worried about the senior devs on
my team or even the mid level career jebs, because
they've they've seen, they've seen some stuff. They usually can
identify code that's not going to hold up very well.
But it's yeah, it's the earlier career folks or people
that are new to the framework that just may not
understand that like Okay, yeah, that's a bad pattern, and

(49:42):
and then once it gets in your code base, that's
the one thing that gets reproduced. Yep.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
It's kind of a habit they grew up with though, right,
Like I mean that, you know, they're this generation that
grew up just being able to type in anything to
Google and getting an instant answer. So it's kind of like, oh,
this is just normal. But I was gonna say, on
the flip side of that, I've been noticing a lot
of there's such a push to use AI that it's

(50:12):
it's i mean, obviously overkill when like people are feeling
so pressured at work by their managers to be using AI.
They go out and they start using stuff that they
don't fully understand, and then all of a sudden they
end up in this big mess or it's not actually
accomplishing what they needed or wanted. And so I think
there's a real fine balance there of like yeah, I mean, sure, great,

(50:36):
use AI, but you really have you know, you have
to be purposeful and have a real intent of how
and why you're using it and not just use it
for the sake of using it.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
Well, it's yeah, I think I find that's like on
that topic, that's something I struggle with the most of
AI is like a lot of these tasks that I
want to be Like, we move really quickly at Chrials,
Like we're shipping things production daily, and so like our
development cycle was really small, right, so if I like
go to do a task, it's like, Okay, I'm gonna
go do this, I'm gonna get it done an hour.

Speaker 7 (51:08):
And a half.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
I'm gonna ship this afternoon, right, and I know, you know,
at the end of the day, the total sometime spent
on the task is probably going to be the same.
It's just are you front loading or backloading?

Speaker 5 (51:20):
The like.

Speaker 4 (51:22):
Thinking of the task, like the not the thinking the
figuring out of the task right with AI, like a
lot of times you have to get the front load
the like how do you want how do you want
to do?

Speaker 7 (51:34):
Is?

Speaker 4 (51:34):
How are you going to do it? What parts of
the system is it integrated to? Whereas like a lot
of time, the way I code is like I just
hop into our code base and I just like start
writing and like I figure it out as I go along.
But it doesn't quite work when you're using like say
I'm for CoDeeN for example, right with us, like I
offload the whole task to it and then I go
do like three or four other things while it's working

(51:55):
on it. Right, But you gotta like, yeah, it's able
to infer a good amount of things, right, but like
you do want to like frontload a decent amount of
the like figuring out how you want to do it,
and like that's just not how I work. So it
hasn't been an easy one to one transfer to using
these AI tools because it requires me to figure out

(52:15):
what I want to do, and I haven't quite figured
out how to solve that problem yet. You know, I've
tried to do the whole like writing it down and
you're thinking through the steps. I've tried to just like
vocalize it using like you know, the voice modes and
stuff like that, and I just can't get to the
point where, like I feel like it's more beneficial for
me to front load.

Speaker 7 (52:34):
The figuring out.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
Here's what I do. And this has been working for
me so far. So a lot of times I'm writing
like utility functions that are going to be used everywhere else.
I took Unus's advice and I write the unit tests first. Ah,
I tell you what I expect it to do. Yeah,
it's funny, but it's better then because then I can

(52:56):
say I need you to implement this feature, and all
these unit tests have to pass, and then it has
I mean it's obviously like if you're writing a really
complicated feature, that's going to be really difficult. But when
you're writing just like utility.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
Validate, Yeah, yeah, we call that TAID test AI driven development.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Right to die.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
I think, Laura, that's a really I really like that
because it's so funny. I mean, for you go to
all these conferences and you hear about testing, and testing
is always just lagged, like let's just be honest. And
you know, a lot of people will get up and
talk about test driven development. I've been hearing it for
a long time, but it's not often that people actually
do it. And maybe they don't perceive the value, they

(53:49):
don't actually realize the value. I'm not sure, but I
think it's a really interesting approach and that like you're
using the human element to say, hey, this is what
correct looks like, and then allowing the agent or whatever
to kind of go ahead and create an implementation against
that spec and then validate itself. And then like it'll
be able to like assert, oh I missed this, or

(54:11):
I got this wrong, or I got that wrong. I
would suspect you'd still want to kind of review that
code and certainly go through it and all that kind
of stuff.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
I did it the most confusing way possible.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah, but I do. I really like the idea of
like allowing the agent to have its own ability to
recursively kind of ast and validate what it's doing. I
imagine you get some good results.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Yeah, it's easier for me to provide like what I
think the inputs and the expected output are going to be,
as opposed to me trying to describe it in words, that's.

Speaker 7 (54:43):
No flaw in that lot.

Speaker 5 (54:46):
I muted.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
We're almost out of time, but I thought maybe we'd
just go around one more time and just kind of
if you want to share something, just what you're looking
forward to in this next season or kind of what
you're looking forward to in your life or kind of Yeah,
it could be doesn't have to be tech, be just
something that you're kind of excited about, and it can
be related to AI, it can be not AI if

(55:10):
you want. I mean, we could do that. I know,
we could actually not talk about AI. But yeah, let's
just go ahead and we'll go around and kind of
lean into that a little bit. I'll go first, because
again I have already been thinking about this question and
you haven't, and so I'll give you a little bit
of time. And so, yeah, I think in general, I'm
really excited about a couple of things. On a professional level,

(55:32):
we're continuing to move things forward on hash Brown. We're
really excited about some of the progress we're making there.
If you haven't checked it out, hashbrown dot dev it's
a framework for building generative AI with React and Angler,
So you can go check that out. And we're dropping a
release hopefully here pretty soon. That will be pretty some
new exciting features, including running local jibityoss and some of

(55:54):
that stuff, and starting giving towards that. And then on
a non technical level, my wife is pregnant and we
were expecting our second in early December, and so I'm
really excited about that. I'm also very nervous excited.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
I don't know what you haven't you have one example
of what babies are like. Now the second one is
almost certainly not going to be the same kind.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Of baby, but most certainly.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
But you're like, yeah, you know that.

Speaker 7 (56:24):
Man.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
The good thing is you have a tiny human that's
going to be like, that's a baby. I want to
entertain it.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Two year old is stoked about yeah, stuff.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Like you're gonna have to do a little bit less work.
You just have to watch and make sure she doesn't
like poke the baby's eyes.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Yeah, yeah, we've seen that with friends. It's like, okay,
I'm gonna move your body. You cannot like lay your
entire like thirty five pounds on top of this infant.
But yeah, I think I'm not a sport person or whatever.
That's that probably gives it away right there, But it's interesting
to me, like we're gonna go from like zone coverage
demand coverage, and so I'm a little like God's giving
me the you know what's coming. And I got talking

(57:01):
to a lot of dad friends and stuff, and it's
like I'm excited for that change, a little worried about it.
I'm already I try to be very involved in my
three year old's life as much as I can anyways,
and you know, she definitely feels a lot of emotional
security and safety with me, and so I think that'll
be good. But I anticipate and hope for kind of
growth in that area as we welcome the infant and

(57:24):
to the later part of this year and early next year.
I'm sure I'll have a lot of challenges as I
face and supporting my wife and the baby, as well
as probably being kind of primary or default parent for
our toddler. But that's mine. So I think I've given
a lot of opportunity for other people think about stuff.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
Yes, yes, did you consider calling it hash brain where
the AI is capital, you know, even hash.

Speaker 7 (57:53):
Brian where the I would be really good.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
The reality is is that, like you know, we're a
tiny company where three people were all engineers and we're
just we're not great at marketing. We're just not like
we try and we've got we get feedback and we improved.
We're launching a completely new docs and a hope and
a new kind of landing page and all this stuff.

(58:18):
I don't know. We're struggling. I wish I wish you
were there. Man, you know you could have helped us
one for free. That was brilliant. Yeah I didn't you know. Uh,
I think we just said we got to give a name.
We we had like yeah, we said this is great, so.

Speaker 7 (58:39):
Yeah, could it.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Just kind of landed and here we are? Sorry, Joan,
what were you gonna say? You're gonna make?

Speaker 6 (58:44):
You could have the hash Brown mascot with like a
little brain and stuff.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
It will be maybe we're spin off. We already put
them on a skateboard, so maybe we'll uh maybe we'll
go there. I don't know the brain and like the
curvature of the hash Brown, it'd be hard to maybe
a hash Bread designer, we would be a brain.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
We can work shop it.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
I do like that.

Speaker 7 (59:10):
Rebrandrand.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Let me just point out real quick, like, uh, this
is the last thing I'll say about hashbron because I
don't want to make it about this, but like a
hashpron is open source and m I T license, so
I like it's free to use. So go check it out,
Go fork it, Go check it out, Go look at
the source code, submit.

Speaker 7 (59:30):
The name of hash brain.

Speaker 5 (59:31):
I'm gonna.

Speaker 9 (59:35):
I would love a pr would be great if you
help us. We've got a small team of like six
or eight people that are helping us.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Uh, of course that's some you know, the three of us,
as well as other folks that have kind of come
along and they're helping us. And we've got a couple
of we've had some pull requests just by the community
in fact in the last week or two, which is
really exciting. And so come join us on that journey
if you're interested in So, this is not AI in
your tool like we've talked about a lot with like cursor,

(01:00:06):
jet brains and all these things. This is like embedding
AI in your Angular application and not just catbots. Sure
you could build a chatbot with it, but you can
do some really fun with it. So I think we're
all gonna be tired of them real soon, if not already.
But I think we're just gonna get inundated with chatbots

(01:00:26):
in the next whatever five years, is going to be
like spam. But but anyways, check it out if you want.
It's it's really fun. If you like it, I would
love to hear from you. And if you don't, we're
looking for feedback. So working sweet fantastic. I hope you're
using oh Jen to do that. Please don't tell me

(01:00:47):
you're actually like using like like you're yeah, yeah, but okay,
I don't know what order we're going to go in
this time, so we'll just whoever wants to go this time.
If you want to shore a little bit about what
you're looking forward to, would love to hear about it.
Share anything. It doesn't have to be personal, it can be.
Don't feel obligated. Yeah whatever, I'll jump in.

Speaker 5 (01:01:10):
So I kind of mentioned it, which is why, because
it's just easy to kind of go from what I
said earlier. But I'm really looking forward to that Dedfest event.
You know, if you're anywhere near Salt Lake City, if
you're even remotely interested in speaking, we do have a
website up. I'm gonna have to look it up. Ah,

(01:01:30):
I think it's Dedfest SLC. Let me see. Yeah, that's
gonna be a lot of fun, a lot of work
to organize it, but just just a lot of fun.
And then on more of a personal note though, you know,
like I tend to over commit to things, and so

(01:01:50):
I'm like tremendously busy between just like having a full
time job to running the meetup. I also have another podcast,
it's called The Devil Life. So just a lot of
things going on. So I love to just slow down,
and I've learned so much about the importance of really
just taking care of self and spending time with people

(01:02:14):
and out in nature and things. So like that said,
I love looking at different events, and this is where
like I live in Utah, and Utah is great because
there's always festivals and events and different things going on.
But fall especially really just shines. Like we have so
many cool things going on, from Swiss Days to like

(01:02:37):
there's a hot air balloon. There's like several hot air
balloon festivals. So it's not like a specific one event,
it's just a collection of just different things getting out,
being connected with self and family and people and not technology.
So that's kind of my big thing right now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
I appreciate that, Brok, thank you so much. Yeah, and
Utah is what a great part of the world to
in terms of outdoor and getting outside. I mean, you
guys trying to have it and so yeah, yeah, you
want to come to b C if I like.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
To beautiful Like we did that drive up like north
of Vancouver that goes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
Yes, yeah, just absolutely we didn't like it was on
our last day of the trip, but we've already talked
about like, yeah, let's go back there because it is.
It's just it's so pretty. It's like kind of like
doesn't even seem real. It's so pretty. So it's also
the same way though they're definitely Bryce Canyon, like I
cannot describe the colors of Bryce, like like you can't

(01:03:47):
photograph it, like the color does not adequately like somehow
the color is also dry. Like it's just it's interesting.

Speaker 7 (01:03:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:58):
By the way, they just put the link so it'll
be in the show.

Speaker 10 (01:04:02):
Note it's DESLC dot web dot app and it so
this is gonna be all it's back to the future
because we're emphasizing like where the future of tech meets
the foundations of where it all started.

Speaker 5 (01:04:19):
Back to the future. But yeah, it should be a
lot of fun definitely check it out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Fantastic, Thanks Chrick. Who's next I go?

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
I'm looking forward to. I usually don't do as much
stuff in the fall, like fall and winter, and so
after ENGI COMP, which I am very much looking forward
to ENGI COMP. I love getting to see the community.
I've never been to Baltimore, so I'm excited to be
able to go to Baltimore this year. But then after that,

(01:04:57):
I don't have to go. I don't travel anymore for
the rest of the year, and I'm really excited to
just be at home. And then it's gonna cool op
and it's gonna be hot tub season again, and I
sitting out in the hot tub and read and that
is like my favorite thing to do at night. So
it is hot right now. It's not fun right now,
it's hot. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Yeah,

(01:05:18):
like we got like locus, like crazy locus going right now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
But yeah, yeah late summer.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Yeah yeah, but yeah, so I'm I'm just kind of
looking forward to that. The yeah, just kind of I
just I'm ready for a little bit of a slow down.
It's been I just need to take that time and
I love to be at home. So the moving relates
to me. I've got such a nice bed, I've got

(01:05:45):
this house I like and the people I want to
see her here.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
So yeah, that's wonderful. Thanks for sharing. Lark Uh John,
Oh my goodness, you see John, I said, John, I
just say I like that.

Speaker 7 (01:06:01):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
That's kind of cute.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
They're like that's They're like, we shipped them. You know,
you guys are a couple hilarious. Sorry, Gather.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
At the same time, Jan.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
You apologize I didn't get much sleep last night, Jay
or Yon? Which of you would like to go next?

Speaker 7 (01:06:19):
Have to use sir?

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
Okay. I am really excited to be back on the podcast.

Speaker 7 (01:06:25):
It's good to have here.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
I know Brian's acting like he's excited to have me back,
but I know he was the one that voted me
out last season, so he voted me off the island.
You just wanted to did it? Listen?

Speaker 10 (01:06:38):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
You know, sometimes like a candle has to be snuffed.
I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
Oh, you snuffed it all right? I was crushed.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
That's totally not obviously joking. Just for the listener who
has some context, you're probably like, wow, I thought Brian
was a nice Scott.

Speaker 7 (01:06:55):
Yeah, so do we.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I have the joy of just being the oldest person
here apparently or whatever, the longest, the longest standing, the
longest time. You're just the stubborn getting the stubborn person.
I don't know. Uh, we like to bring in. We
like to have a I like, I really enjoy having
a variety of hosts and a variety of guests, and
I think it adds a mixture. If you don't like that,

(01:07:23):
I'm sorry, but I do appreciate it. I like, I
love that, like we get to have different perspectives, like
having queue or some of the other folks. Well, we've
had lots of people on the show over the years.
The other point of that, and I'll just I'll stop here,
is that I also enjoy like just giving other people
like an opportunity to have a kind of a voice
in the community. And so we kind of we try
to try to keep it fresh and move things around.

(01:07:46):
And so, yes, Jay I did I kind of snuffed
your candle. I'm so sorry. It was literally just like
you know, I held up your thing until the camera
say well, I have to vote for Jade. I don't
want to, but I have to, And so I did.

Speaker 7 (01:07:58):
It was like a little ceremony, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Yeah, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
Apparently the listeners.

Speaker 11 (01:08:03):
Were episode, but it's podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
You should just work the podcast and the Anger and
Minus show and it would.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
Be Greatuh that's like the Dark Timeline. That's like the
Evil Angular podcast. I okay, I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Spoof. Yeah, we've you off. I'm sorry, but yeah, please do.
I'm sure the listener welcome back. We're so glad you're
here man, and I appreciate you on many levels and
so especially your humor and your your personality. So go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
No, that's that's pretty much all I have to say.
I'm just excited to be back. Obviously, it was nice
to feel to come on last season as a guest.
Oh I talked about Graft I think.

Speaker 7 (01:08:54):
Is what I think a great episode.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
Yeah, that was fun. I do miss hosting and just
talking about.

Speaker 7 (01:09:02):
Two the whole time, So we should do that again
this season.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
With our favorite Kiwi. But than that, yeah, yeah, I'm
excited to be back.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Yeah, we're excited to have you back, and thanks for
taking us up on the off for coming back to
the island. But like some of those reality TV shows,
don't they like send you to like resort and we
just have to like sit there for weeks and just
like drink peanut colada. So it was right.

Speaker 4 (01:09:28):
I was definitely the whole time.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Yeah, yeah, just like hanging out in the resort.

Speaker 7 (01:09:33):
Come on, like.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
It's a cabin of aspen tight. So yeah, it's pretty
much a resort. I honestly use a photo of it
one day and you'd be like, oh, it's not at all.
Got it.

Speaker 7 (01:09:44):
I think I've seen photos.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
I can picture it. I think that happened. Yeah, I'm
from upstate New York and I can picture it. Yeah,
you are last, Go ahead, tell us a little bit
about what you're looking forward to.

Speaker 7 (01:09:58):
The other half.

Speaker 6 (01:10:00):
I'm excited for the Typescript Go implementation. I'm really excited
for that. I one percent sure of the community is
not aware what they do, what they're going to deal with. Well,
not even the community, more like framework maintainers.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Team.

Speaker 6 (01:10:17):
That's a big impact, Yeah, because one thing that is
not commonly known is that the Typescript language server is
not really a language server, but they now are going
to change it to a language server, So that literally
is going to break every client that is out there,
including vis Code, including Neo them and all those that's going.

Speaker 7 (01:10:35):
To be a good time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Tell us a little bit more about that, because I
don't know what do you mean by that? Can you
just clarify?

Speaker 6 (01:10:40):
The Typescript Language Server was basically like the blueprint for
a language server design as a protocol. So therefore they
are like subtle difference and how how Typescript does things
versus how a normal language server does that. If you
ask the Neohim community, they're like pissed about this because
like none of the integrations.

Speaker 7 (01:10:58):
Natively work therefore mm hmm.

Speaker 6 (01:11:02):
Interesting And in the blogs and like one of the
last sentences they were like, oh, we're also going to
change then at LSP now for Typescript with typescope go,
which makes sense and it's a good change. But this
literally means that every vus cope like an out there
has to do changes that depends on types. So again,

(01:11:24):
I still think it's a good change. I'm mildly concerned
off the effort because Microsoft just sacked a couple of
people that we're working on that, but in general, I'm
pretty excited and I think it's going to be good
for the community.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
I'm great.

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
I'm so hyped.

Speaker 6 (01:11:39):
Have you all had Again, have you already run a
POC with typescript go internally.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
I've installed it and try to run it, but there's
one or two packages that it just fails on right
now because they're packaged weirdly or something like red block
for no for example, just like fails weirdly with it,
sign anything with it.

Speaker 7 (01:12:00):
Yet, it's just curious.

Speaker 6 (01:12:02):
I know that Century I used that for like a
PC and they have pretty impressive numbers with it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Yeah, I'm so hyped, so hyped for it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
I assume I've heard of this. I'm not following it,
so forgiving me from my area. Yeah, misunderstanding here potentially,
But this will make like the TSC like to the
typescript compiler much faster. I would anticipate right that it's
gonna be one of the primary.

Speaker 7 (01:12:30):
Like the number that is floating around is ten X. Again,
I don't think ten x.

Speaker 6 (01:12:37):
I don't think that is going to translate one to
one to angular because you're still just the templar type
checking on those things that are like kind of typescript
but also kind of like their own compiler.

Speaker 7 (01:12:47):
So I don't think we are going to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
See one TSC, isn't it don't they. Isn't it my
understanding kind of no? Yeah, maybe clear.

Speaker 6 (01:12:55):
So they basically have their own engine where they transform
hi Melon typescript code. Yes, and that then runs through TSC,
but there's still yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
There's still another step, but then it piles it down
to TSC that use that.

Speaker 6 (01:13:09):
Right, but then you alternate to do the mapping back,
So it's there's the I don't think that.

Speaker 7 (01:13:14):
I don't think.

Speaker 6 (01:13:15):
Angry applications are going to see the same ten X
improvement that we're seeing and React applications, which has native
support for TSX.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 7 (01:13:24):
Yes, it's still going to be pretty massive.

Speaker 4 (01:13:28):
The numbers, Matt Hocar, I put the link in the
in the chat that will be in the show notes.
But it drops centuries one point five million line of
code codebased fifty four point eight seconds to six point
eight for type checking, so almost ten x.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Nice moking. Wow, that's a huge change. Yeah, wow, I
didn't realize. Yeah, we'll drop that in the show notes.
You actually tweet there. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:13:55):
Are you running type checking in trailer? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:14:00):
Absolutely we are. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
Yeah up for unit tests because it made everything too slow.

Speaker 4 (01:14:07):
But so we turn it off for unit tests one
in c I and then find type checking as a
single process using a single route, TS can figure for
all spec files as a separate like that all run
with no type checking when we're running like in parallel
across notes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Yeah, that's smart.

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
Yeah, and that's the same reason why we don't use
type wre linting rules right now. But once TSG has
been released and you know es sin has been updated
and everything was working correctly, I'll probably re enable type
wor lint rules so that we have type war lint
rules in our in our repo and not have lin
fifteen minutes per node for you know, three libraries or whatever.

Speaker 6 (01:14:50):
Did you know that, oh, excellentt is building type of
wareline RULs based on Tisco right now?

Speaker 7 (01:14:57):
I do know that pick up.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Drop us a link if you guys get a chance
while you're will be kind of wrap up here.

Speaker 6 (01:15:05):
But yeah, everything why Zero does is the other thing
that I'm super excited about. Basically, everything they're going to
touch is turning into gold. IM I would if I
have money, which I don't do to my hobbies, I
would bet money on everything what Zero does. Coffee I
already bribe them with coffee, so maybe they like board games.

Speaker 7 (01:15:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Here is the time in which I have to say
we're going to wrap up. It's been a wonderful conversation.
I'm really excited for the season again. Just like a
quick reminder, let me pull up one of my notes here. Yeah,
so we have an excellent lineup schedule for this season.
We're going to be covering software architecture. We're going to
look at Angler signals and the new Signal Forms package

(01:15:56):
that is on the horizon, will be talking about n
f E S and to federation we've got. I'm sure
we'll be talking AI. This episode will drop lightly likely
after our recording of super Base super Bass, so we
hope you enjoyed that. Yeah, and then we'll be live
again in October for our ng CONF episode as well,

(01:16:19):
and we always have fun with that one. So certainly,
if you are subscribed and listening to the podcast, thank
you so much for hanging out with us and following
along on the journey. And if you've got other Angular
or just web dev friends and colleagues that are listening
or are are looking for our podcast, we'd love to
have them join us as well. We do like to

(01:16:40):
mix of fun and tech and and life and all
of those things. Hence the plus. We lean into the
plus sometimes. But yeah, just again, a big thank you
to Brooke and Laura and Jay and John and John
and John. We're really excited. Thank you all for pitching

(01:17:01):
in and helping out. I know that this is it
takes time out of your day and definitely appreciate you
guys joining and being a part of this. And so
real quick, we'll just go around for the if you
want to follow one of us are kind of kind
of like what we do for guests, right, so if
you want to get in touch with us, you can
contact me on LinkedIn. I think I'm slash in slash

(01:17:22):
Belove and then I'm on ex Brian Underscore Love and
then belove dot dev on Blue Scott, So if you
want to kind of reach out that way, and then
also I'll just drop I guess one more time check
out hashbrown dot dev our little AI project that we're
doing with angular and generative user interfaces. Again, gave a

(01:17:43):
nice pause there. Let's I'll call on people once you
go ahead and tell people how to get ahold of
you if they want to reach out to you or
say kind of your last little bit here, Brooke, please
go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:17:52):
Yeah, you can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn. I'm
probably more on LinkedIn lately than they have been ex Twitter,
but either way, it's Jedi bravery, so kind of an
easy way to remember it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:05):
Yeah, thank you, uh Jay, I'm contacting on blue Sky,
jacoober Bell dot dev and my LinkedIn. I'll put both
links in the show notes, and then if you ever
check out some of the like what we're doing at
Charles in terms of like technology stuff, I kind of
reupped the blog recently, so I put that in the
show notes as well, to talk about like how we build,

(01:18:26):
how we use tools. You know, I'm working on one
about like time saved with an X right now and
how we structure, monitor report all that kind of stuff.
So if you want to learn about what we're doing here,
then check out the blog.

Speaker 7 (01:18:35):
Bay. I like that.

Speaker 6 (01:18:37):
Sorry, John, the blog you're published last week, I think
that was pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
Thanks like that, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
I'll check it out. I'm excited. I didn't know that. Yeah,
go ahead.

Speaker 6 (01:18:48):
I am unfortunately on all social media platforms, but preferably
to do with blue Sky.

Speaker 7 (01:18:52):
So workman butt. Def Yeah, that's the best way to
contact me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
And that's what the W yes as a listener.

Speaker 6 (01:18:59):
Just like word and man together because that's what my
last Well, no, I translated the German name into English
and made that my website like it. The thing is
whatman ag is a big computer company in Germany like
Extra Manufacturer. So every domain is gone, all like two

(01:19:21):
thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
I was like, nope, shoot the spots of rough yes,
La your last go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
Yeah. So I'm on blue Sky at Laura Newsome dot
com or LinkedIn and I forgot one thing I'm looking
forward to, which is that my first LinkedIn course is
coming out on LinkedIn Learning in September, so it'll be
on Signals and so yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
I'm excited for that.

Speaker 5 (01:19:48):
Yeah, congratulations too.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
So it takes a lot of work, doesn't it. You
what they blew me.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
They flew me out to LA for a week, and
that was just fantastic because I've there for six years.
So I got to see my aunt and like, right
for a week, like rock I'll take you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
But yeah, well, thank you all. We'll go ahead and
we'll wrap up here again. Hit that subscribe button we've
got lots of great contact coming your way. Thanks again
to see everybody for joining us on this season, and
to the listener, we'll see you next time. Thanks a lot,
Bye bye.

Speaker 12 (01:20:28):
Hey, this is Prestol. I'm one of the NGI Champions riders.
In our daily battle to crush out code, we run
into problems and sometimes those problems aren't easily solved. NGI
COOMF broadcasts articles and tutorials from Engie Champions like myself
that help make other developers' lives just a little bit easier.
To access these articles, visit medium dot com, Forward slash,
n gcomm.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
Thank you for listening to the Angular Plus show in
chiecomff podcast. We'd like to thank our sponsors, the NGICOMF
organizers Joe Eames and Aaron Frost, our producer Gene Born,
and our podcast editor and engineer Patrick Hayes. You can
find him at spoonful Ofmedia dot com.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S10 E1 | Meet the hosts + a sneak peak into Season 10!