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February 14, 2020 • 60 mins
On the outside, Dorothea Puente appeared to be a sweet older woman who took care of the less fortunate in her community, but on the inside, she had much darker intentions.

This episode was written, researched and produced by Erika Gwynn
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Kai Engel - Shining Dawn
Ars Sonor - Efterdyningen
Broke For Free - One And

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
This episode of The Apex and theAbyss contains graphic descriptions, audio and language
that may be unsettling to some individuals. Listener discretion is advised. Have you
ever wondered where saying originated from?The phrase that is coming to mind during

(00:27):
this particular moment is don't judge abook by its cover. This phrase appears
in the African Journal American Speech innineteen forty four for the first time.
However, the phrase was a littlebit different. Back then. It went
you can't judge a book by itsbindings. Over time it has evolved to
its current form. It is avery simple phrase that is fairly self explanatory.

(00:51):
Don't judge the outside against the inside. A person can look tattered,
broken and even a little bit mean, but have a heart of gold.
On the flip side, A personcan look kind, innocent and unsuspecting,
but have a streak of evil indarkness within them that not even those closest

(01:11):
to them ever knew about it untilit was too late. You're listening to
The Apex and the Abyss, andthis is the story of Dorothea Puente.
Authorities say they'll go for the deathpenalty, and the trial of a landlady
suspected of killing seven boarding home tenants. A Sacramento judge today, I reign

(01:33):
Dorothea Puente on one murder account.Prosecutors say additional murder charges will be at
it. Puente did not enter apolice and as being held tonight without bail.
Police named the x con as asuspect that they're finding seven bodies buried
in the art of her sacramental boardinghouse. Authorities say Puente killed her tenants
for their social Security checks. DorotheaPuente is a perfect example of the whole

(01:59):
don't judge by its cover mentality.Our story takes place in nineteen eighty eight.
Dorothea was about sixty years old andshe ran a boarding house in Sacramento,
California. On the outside, thepetite, older woman looked like a
sweet little grandma. She took peopleinto the boarding house she lived in and
always seemed to offer a helping hand. However, all of this was just

(02:23):
a cover. You see, DorothiaPoente was a schemer and she was also
a serial killer. But before weget into what Dorothea became, let's go
back to the beginning. Do youreally think I'm a jilty do you want
to be truthful with You're going tobe real truthful with you. Dorothia.
I think you had somehow you're involvedin it. Dorothia was born on January

(02:46):
ninth, nineteen twenty nine, inred Lands, California, which is located
near San Bernardino. Dorothea was thesixth child out of seven born to Jesse
and Trudy Gray, though there arereports that state that Dorothea was one of
eighteen children. However, this cannotbe proven. What you will discover about
Dorothea Puente is that not only isshe a cold and calculated murderer, but

(03:09):
she is also a pathological liar.What we do know about Dorothea thanks to
actual documentation, is that, unfortunately, she did not grow up in a
loving and stable home. Her familyhad very little money, and her parents
were quite abusive to their children,so much so that Dorothea's mother would eventually

(03:30):
lose custody of her children due toher alcohol abuse and apparent child abandonment.
When Dorothea was just eight years old, her father would die of tuberculosis,
and soon after her mother would bekilled in a motorcycle accident, orphaning Dorothea
and all of her siblings. Notmuch can be said for what happened to
her siblings after the tragedy, butwe do know that Dorothea would go between

(03:53):
foster homes and other relatives all throughouther teenage years. She would even spend
time in homes for orphans children,where she stated she was sexually abused.
In nineteen forty five, Dorothea wasaround sixteen years old and she was tired
of being shuffled around California, soshe made her way to Olympia, Washington,

(04:14):
by herself to start a new life. To survive on her own and
to earn income, she would diveinto sex work and that is where she
would encounter and meet her first husband, Fred McFall. Fred and Dorothea would
get married fast and head to Nevadato start their family, but this relationship
was not all sunshine and rainbows.Within two years of the couple's union,

(04:38):
they would have two children. However, Dorothea had zero interest in being a
mother. It is said that onechild was given to relatives of the couple
and the other was put up foradoption. More conflicting reports would appear when
it comes to what caused Dorothea andFred's relationship to end in nineteen forty eight.
Some articles suggest that the couple split, other state that Fred mc fall

(05:00):
allegedly died of a heart attack.Either way, after the end of the
relationship, Dorothea would leave Nevada andhead back to her California roots. Once
she returned to the San Bernardino area, Dorothea's life of crime would commence soon
after she moved back to California.She would try to pass bad checks under
an alias name. This crime wouldland her a few months in jail.

(05:24):
Once she was released, she wasplaced on probation. One of the guidelines
of her release was that she wouldhave to stay within Riverside County, California,
but she left the area anyway.It is rumored that during this time
she would give birth to another childand place this baby up for adoption as
well. At some point, youngDorothea would head to San Francisco. By

(05:46):
nineteen fifty two, she would meetand marry a man by the name of
Axel Johansson. Axel was from Sweden, and those who knew him would describe
him as tough. Axel and Dorotheawere together for a grand total of fourteen
years and their relationship was nothing shortof violent. The pair fought verbally and
physically on a near daily basis.It got so bad that at one point

(06:11):
Axel would have Dorothea sent to amental institution where she was evaluated and put
on anti psychotic medication. While theywere together, Dorothea would have extramarital affairs,
as well as abuse alcohol and gambleconstantly. She would also be arrested
for running a brothel and sacramento.This didnt in jail would only last ninety

(06:32):
days, but practically as soon asshe left, she went right back to
jail on another charge, this timeagain for ninety days. It seemed as
though whenever Dorothea landed herself in jail, she would tell those who inquired as
to where she had gone for sucha long amount of time that she simply
had gone out of town to visita friend. Lying was something that came

(06:55):
natural to Dorothea. In nineteen sixtysix, after years of instability and violence,
Axel and Dorothea would get divorced.Two years later, she would marry
a man by the name of RobertoPuente. Roberto was quite a few years
younger than Dorothea. There are afew conflicting reports about the age difference as

(07:15):
well, so to err on theside of caution, let's just say that
he was about fifteen to twenty yearsher junior. At the time of her
third marriage, Dorothea was around thirtynine years old, yet she looked much
older than her actual age. Dorotheaherself and time were not kind, and
her turbulent life showed on her face. It is said that her new husband

(07:38):
used marriage as a way to obtaincitizenship in America, and that it was
quite a loveless union. The couplewould only stay together for about two years
before separating. Soon after the endof this relationship, Dorothia would begin operating
a boarding house in Sacramento, California, on F Street. Dorothea would have

(07:59):
some back ground in running and caringfor individuals in a boarding house. When
she wasn't in jail or prison,she would work as a nurse's aid.
She would typically work in and outof the person's home and assist with whatever
they needed. The house on FStreet was around eighteen hundred square feet give
or take a few a decent amountof space, especially if you planned on

(08:20):
taking in people who simply needed aroof over their head. Dorothea would take
in older individuals as well as peoplewho were homeless and disabled. On the
outside, it seemed as though Dorotheawas providing a great and commendable service for
her community, helping those in needin giving her home, time, and
heart to those who needed it.But what did we say at the beginning

(08:41):
of this episode, don't judge abook by its cover. While the cover
of this story, especially going intoit without knowing anything about who Dorothea Puente
was, it seemed like a greattale. But diving into it, this
story is about to turn into alegend of horror land. Lady of a

(09:03):
boarding house so rested in connection withthe murder of seven of her tenants.
What Dorothia like to do was abusethe power that she had over those who
lived in her boarding house. Shewould take their money, whether it be
by social Security check or what haveyou. She felt as though she was
entitled to it, so she wouldeither steal it or have them handed over

(09:24):
to her. What needs to beunderstood is that Dorothea and this home,
for some of the individuals who livedthere, was all that they had.
Things began to get increasingly odd andhostile. In the boarding house, Dorothia
would hire a man who is aknown alcoholic and a transient. He would
do handywork around the home on Epstreetuntil one day he simply disappeared, never

(09:46):
to be seen or heard from again. By the mid seventies, Dorothea would
get married yet again, this timeto a man named Pedro Montalvough. Pedro
was not a good man and wasknown his abusive ways. This relationship did
not last very long, and onceit was over, Dorothea would spend a
lot of her time at the barsin her neighborhood. Perhaps she was drowning

(10:11):
her sorrows, or maybe just maybeshe was on the hunt. While in
these bars, Dorothea would sweet talksome of the men that frequented the establishments.
Ultimately, she would obtain certain bitsof information she needed from them and
would then begin stealing their benefits thatthey would receive from the government. Once
she had that check in hand,she would forge their signatures and cash them.

(10:35):
This was her game, and shockingly, she was good at it,
but not too good, because eventuallyshe would be caught and charged with over
thirty counts of treasury fraud, andshe was given five years probation. The
fact that she was caught doing aserious crime and that her criminal record was
constantly growing, it didn't matter toher, nor did it stop her from

(10:58):
stealing all the people around her.What's interesting is that those who lived at
the boarding house during all this werecompletely divided on how they felt about her.
Some loathed Dorothea and hated living there, but they had little to know
other options. Dorothea was known forstealing the occupant's mail that she dealt with.

(11:20):
It seems as though some would Knowgusmore than others would, and those
who knows would go head to headwith her quite often about it. And
then on the other side of thecoin, there were those who spoke nothing
but praises when it came to Dorotheaand how she treated them. How is
it that one person can master theappearance of both a generous and thieving person.

(11:41):
It is very curious as to whyshe picked and chose which ones saw
each side of her, though thepeople she tended to be terrible to were
the ones who would call her outon her shady behavior, so maybe it's
not too confusing after all. Innineteen eighty two, Dorothea's behavior would take
a different turn with new occupants cominginto the boarding house. She saw it

(12:03):
as more dollars lining her pocket,and somewhere along the way, she decided
that if they didn't give her themoney she wanted, then they would have
to die. Sixty one year oldRuth Munroe moved into the boarding house in
April of nineteen eighty two. Alittle over two weeks after Ruth had moved
in, she was dead. Shehad overdosed on a mixture of tylonnoll and

(12:26):
codine. When the police and theambulance were called to the scene, Dorothea
would tell them about Ruth's struggles thatshe had heard about over the course of
her stay at the boarding house.Ruth, according to Dorothea, was extremely
depressed due to the fact that herhusband was terminally ill. Those investigating Ruth's
death believed the story and jotted downthe tragedy as suicide. It was a

(12:50):
plausible story. There was no waythat a sweet woman like Dorothea Puente would
have anything to do with her death. It wouldn't be long before the police
were knocking on Dorothea's door again.In fact, it was only within a
matter of weeks seventy four year oldMalcolm mackenzie would contact police after Dorothea drugged
him while at his apartment after anight of drinking. Malcolm was incredibly dizzy

(13:16):
and lethargic due to whatever Dorothea hadslipped him. However, the entire time
he could see what she was doingin his apartment, but he was just
unable to stop her due to thedrugs. Dorothea began rummaging through his belongings
and would wind up taking his rarepenny collection and a ring that he was
wearing. In August of nineteen eightytwo, Dorothea would be convicted for the

(13:39):
crime and she was sentenced to fiveyears in prison. Because Dorothea was in
and out of custody throughout the durationof her life, going back to prison
was not a difficult adjustment for her. However, at one point during this
stint in prison, she would findherself at the end of a vicious beating
from fellow inmates. Dorothea had holdof guard information regarding a separate attack that

(14:03):
occurred in the facility earlier. Whenthe inmates found this out, they made
Dorothea pay for telling the guard thetruth. Due to her injuries and concern
for her safety, Dorothia was movedto protective custody. While in the new
areas, she received a letter froma man named Everson Gilmouth. Everson had
an interesting hobby of writing incarcerated women. Over time, this random relationship blossomed.

(14:28):
After three years, Dorothea would bereleased early from her sentence and Everson
was the person who picked her upfrom prison. After her release, she
returned to the boarding house. Inher absence, he took care of the
house for her, but now shewas back. Towards the end of nineteen
eighty five, Dorothia Poente hired ahandyman by the name of Ismael Flores.

(14:52):
Aside from doing things around her home, Dorothea asked Flores to build her a
box six feet long, three fwide, and two feet deep. She
told him she needed it for storage. Flora's liked Dorothea. She paid him
well and even sold him a carthat belonged to her boyfriend Everson. She
claimed that he no longer needed thevehicle. She was good to him,

(15:15):
so her wish was his command.After building the box, Dorothea filled it
and nailed its shut. She wouldthen ask Flora's to take it to the
local storage place. While on theway, Dorothea told Flora's to drive to
a nearby river bank. She thenasked him to take the box and dump
it there instead. At this Flora'sfinally questioned the whole situation. It seemed

(15:37):
odd that he was building such alarge box, and it was a mystery
as to what Dorothea was putting init. Dorothea simply explained that what was
in the box was nothing valuable andshould have been thrown out in the first
place. Trusting her story, hebelieved her and didn't question her anymore on
the matter. However, a fewmonths later, two fishermen were walking along
the river bank when a foul smellwas carried towards them on the wind,

(16:00):
the smell of rot, decay,and death. The smell was coming from
a large box that was half submergedin the water. The two fishermen would
not touch the box, but insteadcalled the police to have them investigated instead.
When authorities opened the box, theyfound the remains of Everson Gilmouth,
Dorothea's prison penpal turned boyfriend. Eversonwas wrapped in a bedsheet and the only

(16:25):
clothing on his body were his underwearand he had been bound with electrical tape.
Police were unable to determine his identityat the time, so for years
Everson was just another John Doe,waiting for his name to be returned to
him. Everson Gilmouth was never reportedas missing. Dorothea was collecting his pension
and his Social Security money on amonthly basis, and would tell anyone who

(16:51):
asked about him via letter or phonecall that he had either fallen ill or
was out of town, and thatwas the explanation as to why they had
not heard from him in a while. After Everson's murder, Dorothea kept all
moving. She was unfazed by heractions and only had one thing on her
mind. Money, where it wascoming from, how much she was going

(17:14):
to get, and how quickly couldshe spend it. The boarding house was
at capacity and Dorothea was up toher normal schemes of hoarding the mail from
her tenants. It would not belong before Dorothea's actions would become suspicious to
everyone around her. It seemed asthough people would just up and vanish around
her constantly, with no rhyme,reason or explanation. The only story inquiring

(17:37):
minds would get would come from Dorothea'slips and hers alone. Betty Palmer and
Leona Carpenter were two women who,within weeks of calling the boarding house on
F Street home, would disappear withouta trace. James Gallup was another occupant
that would never be heard from again. In July of nineteen eighty seven,
he moved into the house on FStreet after having brain surgery, and that

(18:00):
was the last anyone had ever heardfrom him. A few months later,
Vera Martin would take up residence inthe boarding house run by Dorothea Puente,
and Vera would vanish. In Februaryof nineteen eighty eight. Bert Montoya claimed
a bed in Dorothea's boarding house.She basically took over his entire life the
second he moved in. All ofhis affairs, especially his money, was

(18:25):
taken care of by Dorothea. Butjust like the aforementioned residence, he too
would disappear without a trace. Whenpeople asked about him, Dorothea said that
he went to Mexico to visit hisfamily. Bert's disappearance would be the straw
that broke the camel's back when itcomes to Dorothea's long list of crimes,

(18:45):
However, unbeknownst to her, peoplewere already suspecting her. Of the worst
complaints would come in about Dorothea's stealingmoney from those she cared for, despite
the fact that she had a criminalrecord that indicated that she knows how to
do things, and the fact thatshe was blatantly doing it all the time,
The investigators found these complaints unwarranted.On November seventh, nineteen eighty eight,

(19:08):
a missing person's report was filed inregards to Bert Montoya. Police would
follow up on the complaint and wentto Dorothea's house. They questioned her and
briefly looked around the home, andDorothea would give them the same story she
had given the others, that Montoyahad gone to Mexico to visit family.
While at the house, the policequestioned other occupants about Bert's whereabouts. One

(19:32):
of them would slip the officer anote that stated something along the lines of
Dorothea asking people to lie for herto cover up something She was lying and
now the police knew that there wassomething far more nefarious going on in this
boarding house than Dorothea was letting up. A few days later, the officers
returned to the house with a warrantto thoroughly search the house and dig up

(19:53):
the garden. During the search,the police would find seven bodies buried in
the backyard. Dorothea would be broughtin for questioning regarding the bodies found in
her yard. What you're about tohear are snippets from that interview. Okay,
Dorothea, first question is how longhave you actually lived at that residence.

(20:17):
I think I lived there in seventyeight that I was in prison for
from I mean I was Okay,there's in cars Roy from May to nineteenth,
nineteen seventy eight eighty two until Septemberninth, eighty five. Okay,
so you actually started living here innineteen seventy eight, and you lived there

(20:38):
until nineteen eighty two, until Maywhen you were sent away, and then
you got out in September nineteen eightyfive, and you've lived there ever since.
Okay, I was hunt to prisonin September eighty two. I obviously
find thirty excuse me, obvious nineteen. I was in Carson Rated from May

(21:00):
to nineteenth on. From so fromnineteen seventeen nineteen eighty two, you lived
there and was there do you rememberwho lived there before you. No,
you don't remember. I've only hadthe downstairs for a year. Well,
I mean I don't. I don'thave the downstairs. I in my nephew.

(21:23):
He lived there before. What's hisname, Ricardo Puerto Rico. All
our people are I see, doeshe live in Sacramento? Yes, I
don't remember the policy about fifty something. He's in pacto too. He's the

(21:47):
owner of the property. And youleased the property. Well, I pay
monthly events, you know, okay, But they kept they remembered the place
out while I was on the utilitystayed in money. So the utilities of
the property are in your name.Who pays taxes on it? He paid
it. So you paid the allutilities on the properties in your name,

(22:10):
and you have a verbal agreement leadthat you are to live there and maintain
and take care of the property.When I was born, he ran in
my apartment out killed. So youhave you have Dorothea Montalvo, and you're
also Dorothea Wenday. I was born, I was married to I was married.

(22:37):
You were born Montalbo right one day? Where were you born? California?
The investigator presents a very shaken Dorotheawith the facts. Her stories weren't
matching up, and they were glaringinconsistencies to what she was saying versus what
everyone else was claiming in regards tomissing people. The questions we need to

(23:00):
ask you, I need, Ineed, I need all the truth from
you. Okay, Number one isgoing back, of course. Now this
whole thing got started was because ofthis last individual, Montoya. Now his
disappearance is very suspicious. I cantell you that even the things that you

(23:21):
said didn't even quite connect with whatthe other individual polists which he spoke to
you. There are a lot ofinconsistencies in this. Well. You know,
I didn't think I was ever goingto have to remember everything. And
that's fine. I mean, Ican understand that you explain that to us,
But there's just a lot of inconsistenciesalso they get in touch with you.

(23:42):
I mean, wasn't that I haveto I have to physical see Now,
as far as the social worker,he had no relatives known to her
and never mentioned it any, buthe had mentioned at one time that he
wanted to move from your place.He didn't want to stay there. And

(24:03):
then we talked to mister Sharp andmister Sharpe says he hasn't seen him for
three months. But you said theother day social worker hasn't seen so who
is lying to me? Who islying to me? Do with you?
But why not? He was thereSaturday and Sunday. How can mister Sharp?
Well, he doesn't need he doesn'teven associate with the arf. Mister

(24:26):
Sharpe also told us that you hadtold him to lie. I did not
about saying that he was there,because he later told us that he him.
In fact, I had asked misterSharp to move. When did you
ask him him? Um? Isee he couldn't paid rent one month October

(24:49):
because he needed to all his moneydrinking again. I don't know if he
drinks Sunday and that was the secondtime that he had done since it's been
there, and it makes it hardto come up to the ranch. And
I asked him if if he wouldmove? When? Why would mister Sharp

(25:11):
tell us because he's mad because I'mmaking him he hasn't seen it for three
months? Also, Ben, howlong did Ben live there? Just?
Two months? Okay? So Benben Fink lived there two months? Did
obviously? Who did? Uh?Melvine? Noben? Who Melbourne or John

(25:32):
you called him John you mean Murph? Yeah, how do I say Melvin?
I don't know, because he associatedwith him, you know, he
doesn't associated with hiring anybody. ButBen went Worth's book place. Was Ben
staying at in one of the roomsby himself, okay, because but he
was coming most of the time,because he was always out and drinking and
okay, okay, And he wason he had a bad leg and he

(26:00):
should be go sell his blood everyweek down Athan plasm right, And he
said, we're gonna go back toMarysville. When did you say that?
When I told her he had toleave? When a couple three months ago,
it was in the summertime, summertime, I see mister Sharp says

(26:26):
that Ben was missing the same timeas Montoya. The social worker says she
was up in contact with Montoya upto about three months ago. Okay,
And she says she had not heardhide nor hair from him. Well,
he really didn't want to see him, but he'd always he'd attempted that he
went to dtox on occasion twice.Yeah, and he told him a detox

(26:51):
to take me out of your home. I don't want And the social worker
was on very good terms with himto where she was right and when he
all of a sudden disappeared, shestarted thinking, what the heck's going on
here? And then she got theinconsistent things about you tell me that the
guy was from you didn't know wherehe went, And she got a phone
call and she says that you toldher he went to Utah. I mean
there's a lot of things the ideathat I don't understand. I don't know

(27:15):
where the man was going to takecounter, Okay, but I mean there's
a lot You see what I'm saying, there's a lot of inconsistency there,
and it can't explain his disappearance.It can't now coupled with all of that,
okay, coupled with all of that, and then we come and talk.
Could you put could you put atap on my phone and listen to

(27:38):
my conversation, like if they calledme, I would like you to do
that to me for me to besatisfied, I would have to physically see
that. Well, then, couldn'tshoot once when the call came to couldn't
you monitor all the calls? Andthen her tras on the call that I
don't know how that works? Wouldbe truth with you, because I would
be willing to have that time.Know, the investigator continues to press her

(28:03):
on Burt Montoya whereabouts? You know. We we go and talk to you.
You're real good about it. Andthen we asked you for permission.
You didn't even have to give uspermission to look, but you were cooperating.
You said you gave us permission todig around in the yard and look
around. And then we dig andlo and behold we find what is looks
like the remains of a human being, clothing at all. But if it

(28:29):
was, if it was Alvaro,you know, no, I don't think
it's Alvaro. I don't think Albarrowif we was in the ground, would
be that decay or ben think now, I know that the concrete up in
front of the shed hasn't been onthe ground that long. I can tell
you know where the rose bushes are. You put the roses in the little

(28:52):
round circles right in front of theship, not in back of the shed
where the garden areas, but infront there about it? In think there?
How about this last summer? Maybeyou put that down I'm trying to
listen everywhere or something like that,Okay, because there was a trench there.
There was an open trench there atone time. Do you remember that

(29:14):
we were looking for star lines.Okay, So right in front, right
in front of that was an opentrench. And the fact, if my
memory serves me right, that trenchwent this way and then along the fence
on the side of that shed.Am I correct? You mean right where
the concrete is now. Underneath thatconcrete there used to be you had a

(29:34):
there was a ditch, a littleditch. You say you were looking for
sewer. Okay, Now you knowwhere I'm speaking about. Okay, you
know where the little shit is outdoors, not in the back of the house,
the one on the side of theOkay, Okay, Let's say the
gardens, the garden is okay,Let's do it like this. Here's the

(29:55):
garden area okay. And then there'sa concrete here, and then they have
a shed right there, okay.And then in front of the shed you
have a little bit more concrete withlittle circles, and I believe those are
some kind of bush. Let's seeyou have another little some kind of a
patio thing here, and then thatdriveway goes out like that. Here's the
front of the house. You knowwhat shed I'm talking about right here?
Okay, this area you know thatwith a concrete's only about an inch Think

(30:18):
that looks like it hasn't been thatconcrete hasn't been there that long. I'm
no expert, but I know whenI looked at concrete, I've been around
a moment of that that that hasnot been there that long. Do you
remember that in the early part ofthe year. Man? Okay, but

(30:38):
that's what I'm saying. There wasat one time a trench there, Am
I wrong? No? Two feetdeep and it didn't run in an L
shape like this which way to go? It just went straight across okay,
right in front of the shed area. It wasn't even as long as this

(30:59):
table. Okay. You were lookingfor sewer there, Okay, Now someone
was that? Was it summertime?Was it early part of the year?
It was probably March March? Andyou have a shed back here year so
we know that that concrete. Nowthe concrete in front here, well that

(31:22):
poor at the same time as here. Oh, how long has this concrete
been there? Over a year?Over a year okay, and that's connected
to the shed. And how longhas the shed been there over a year?
Okay? What what? What washere? Before? All that was
put down? Plants? Plants andgarden and garden there, all dirt and
stuff. Okay, but it wasright here, oh I know, yeah,

(31:48):
it would be okay. And thenyou have a little shed back the
family living downstairs at that time,you know, And how long has that
shed been there? It was alittle shad. Did you get it after
you were out in you got outof nineteen eighty five? Did you can
put it up there? Or wasit there before it? Then? The
metal chip? Alright, I meanwas it after you got out of nineteen

(32:14):
eighty five? Okay, so afternineteen eighty five you put it up the
ship? Now there back of yourhouse, there are some trees planted here.
How long have those trees been here? They seem to be rather new
by the way the roots, Yeah, I could move them with my hand,
and I can see that the rootsare not in hearing soil was dying

(32:36):
on Okay. It appears that therewas some digging in this back area there.
Did you have any open trench areas? Back? There? Used to
be a chick chicken coop there wherenow in this whole thing? Yeah,
how long ago, year and ahalf ago? Okay, when was the
last time there was any digging backhere? Because it appears that there has
been some digging here that the summer. Sometimes what did you dig out?

(32:59):
Was there another trend for sewer orany Yeah? But there, John and
John, we're box what area ofit? Here are the three? Here
are the trees right here? Whatare you with this whole thing? Okay?
Now over here you have a coupleof big concrete ut a big bad
like my bathtubs to me, Well, that came out of the upstairs.

(33:22):
Yeah. How long have those beenthere? For? Four years? Okay?
Those are never budged. But theonly big in you know of?
Okay, we know there was atrench. You dug a small trench right
here. How deep was that maybe? But nah? Okay, and then
you didn't find anything. You justburied it and then laid on you laid
concrete over there some like if you'relooking at my kitchen, I have one

(33:43):
buffet I put my coffee grounds,eggs, shells, and stuff. In
fact, you'll find that all overthe yard. Okay. You know a
lot of people do that. Haveyou ever had any or had the need
for any lie around the house,white powder light. We put some I'm
line line. I forget the lumberjacko or a tap from nursery told me

(34:06):
that the brown is so hard,like if you if you go back and
dig with the grass, you knowwhere we put the grass in the front.
They dug up about that much.If you walk cross to the empty
lot, you'll see the grass sittingthere. And they dug about that much,
and we put in. I amput line there, but I put
a bag of fire lighter and Ithink one bag of hotting soil or something.

(34:34):
And well, I notice I noticeda line back there in the soil.
Well they said that the brown neededYeah, but I also noticed in
the hole we were digging there wassome residue of lime. Would there be
any reason to be line to peopleow in the soil? None? You
never put it. How about Johnwho did the digging back there? For

(34:54):
you who dogged all these trenches.I think John does some like I tried,
but I can't. I couldn't writeor something. No, I have
a bad heart and I can't.That's anything very heavy. So John did
mostly digging one it needs well,not always. I mean sometimes I had
what do you call it casual waiver. Yeah, getting back to that,
what will you find in this wholeyear? Do you have any knowledge of

(35:19):
what was in that hole at anytime? Did John ever tell you about
anything? John? Sure? Couldhe have put something in that hole?
I don't think for me. He'shad a quad of old white pass or
whatever, you know, whatever hedoes have to about, mister keunty.
No, he never done. Here'sa bad land. The only thing he
ever did was help take up somegrass out by the sidewalk, or I

(35:44):
put some icondra. Have you doneany digging up here in this area or
mainly all you're digging his back inthe side in here, the side because
I always have tomados and doll peppersand squash. Listen, you hear what's
this here? This is a driverwhen the conquer. You got some plastic
over here? Okay, that's frommy graphic. We just planned yesterday,

(36:06):
but that was away built up aboutthis month. It was in the middle
there before graph, but it wasit was bad, bad, so you
dug it up. You're planning graphAnd if people look across the street from
my house, you can say Ibelieve I believe it. Eventually the investigator
asked Dorothea the question of the hour, did she kill Bert Montoya? Okay,

(36:28):
now let's get back to this otherthing here. Okay, I've got
a man missing. Nothing seems,everything seems totally. Nothing fits do Withthia.
That's what I'm trying to say,nothing fits Okay, And there's one
or two things I can surmise,okay, and that is mister Montoya,

(36:52):
it's dead. No, no,miss that I'm just saying. I mean
just I'm trying to surmise this,and then we'll try to clear this up.
That he is dead and that eitherhe either either John macaulay or Mr
Melvin or either killed him or thatmaybe he meant foul played by your hands.

(37:14):
That's that's that's my alternatives. Idon't know. But my other alternative
is that the fact that somewhere inthat Mackyard North that he's lying, maybe
along with other people. Okay.And I'm also going to tell you that
we had this same information a yearago. A year ago, yes,

(37:35):
a year ago. So what I'mtelling you is not new to me.
Monday, Can I hire a contractorto go in and tear everything down and
dig it up to prove to youthat there's nobody there. If any digging
has to be done, We're goingto do the digging. Okay. What
I'm trying to do is right now, save a lot of painstaking trouble,

(37:59):
a lot of time and a lotof trouble. And what I'm asking you
my bottom line and what I'm trulyasking you do to you. I have
never killed anybody, maybe not you. But how about mister McCaulay, what
reason have Well, I know we'regoing to find out if about the checks,

(38:24):
Okay, this is all security checks. And I know that you're past
you've been in some trouble with right, Okay, And I know I remember
when you were arrested and you werein the beadle that I admitted to that
to get the trial over where okay, but you still were convicted, right
and sins to right. Okay.The similarities are there. The only the

(38:45):
only thing that's different now is thefact rather than take something and let it
go, you get rid of themand nothing's ever found. Now here's a
man from Costa Rica or timbuc twothat really nobody cares about. Just like
fact, Just like mister Kelly said, he says, hey, when you're
nobody or nobody nobody cared, soyou disappear, you're a transient, or

(39:09):
you're a bum, or you're analcoholic. A lot of people think nobody
ever cares. I cared for him, my body closed. I treated him
very, very good. Have youseen Ben Fink around? You know?
I told him not to ever comeback from the point he was normally a
regular around town. And you knowwhat, but he's look in Marysville,

(39:30):
Dorothea. He'd have been in Marysville, he'd have been arrested. That's how
Ben was. You know how Benwas? No, he get drunk.
He get drunk, you like,get a little goofy, right, and
then you usually end up getting arrestedtaking the detox or something. Nothing absolutely

(39:50):
nothing gone. What am I tothink? What am I to think?
After hearing this a year and falling, falling along, watching, waiting,
and then all of a sudden,lo and behold, I did the body
in your bank? I don't knowanything. I didn't even keep the body.
It may be and you maybe thatmay be true. That's why I'm

(40:14):
asking you. I'm appealing to you, Joe. I don't feel anything.
I'm want to ask you, rightnow, are there any other bodies you
know in your bankcount I didn't evenknow that one was there. Did mister
mccaullay bring any other bodies in thebackground? Ye have testes mccaully Okay.

(40:34):
That's why I'm asking you, becauseif it has to be said, I
want to said right now and it'scleared up. Let's not get into something
that maybe isn't there. I wantto know. I want you to be
truth. I didn't even know thatbody for there. If I had it,
I would have said, no,I don't fix the yard, you
know, but I had nothing tohide it. I don't want to go

(40:54):
back to prisoner. Well, Irealize that I'm old, lady. I
realized that trying for all, I'mtrying to get my life together. But
Dorothea, that all the indications,everything doesn't make any sense. Is what
I'm trying to tell you. I'mappealing to you. I'm appealing to you.

(41:15):
That's what I'm saying is nothing makessense. Nothing. Everything you said
was inconsistent with what somebody else said. When you sat in there, it
was like sticking your foot in yourown mouth. I couldn't believe you were
telling me that because I thought,wait a minute, wait a minute,
something is wrong here. And thenwhen I talked to Mitch mcaulay, he
couldn't even substantiate what you were saying. And here's a man that's lived there

(41:36):
four years, almost four years inMarch. No, he's been there two
years. Well, he says fouryears in March. Well, he couldn't
remember that. I haven't gotten outin eighty five. He was living there
before you there. Right at thispoint in the investigation, authorities had only
uncovered the one body. They werecurious if they were going to find more
in the garden, and we alreadyknow that they will, Dorothea. I

(42:01):
know if we did, we're gonnafind more. I know that. I
know that. Well. I didn'tput him there. I couldn't drag the
body in any place. I believethat. But I believe there's somebody else
involved here, somebody else, becausehere's people that are still getting checks and

(42:22):
they haven't him in the scene hidingher hair. Dorothea, you have to
look at it from my view,dear. I look at it, and
I think nothing makes sense. Thisis absolutely anybody. Maybe you didn't kill
anybody. That may be true,but maybe you know what really happened.

(42:42):
I think you know about mister Montoyabecause mister Montoya is not in Costa Rica.
Mister Montoya is where is he?He's in that backyard. I believe
Dorothea he is in that backyard orhe's been disposed of some other manner,
not by me, by mister McCauley. I don't see. I'm asking her.

(43:04):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't I want to know
what you know. I want toknow what you know. You know you
are the leader of the house.You have the background. Okay, you've
been there before. You know whatI'm talking about. I have never killed
anybody in line, and who didkill somebody? Mister McCauley, tell me,
no, tell me now, Idon't know. Tell me now.
I don't know. When did misterMontoya really disappear? When let's be honest

(43:34):
with me, be real honest withSeptember. That's when the last time you
saw him. I saw him thisweekend Sunday. Yes see, that's what
I'm trying to say. Everybody elsesays, no, he hasn't been around.

(43:55):
Why would they tell us that,I don't know? Why? Why
would they tell us? Why wouldmister Sharpe tell me that you promised to
do some things for him if youlied for you. I asked mister Sharpe
to move. That's why he's madgoing to bring him in here, and
I'm also going to bring mister mcculey. Always look like I'm lying because I'm
nervous, Dorothea. You said wherea lot of people are sitting. I

(44:17):
know, and don't I'm not takingthe idea. I'm not using that against
you that you've been in prison.Okay, what I say when I say
the police officers not so you know. But I'm saying it's the background.
It's the background. It's not likeyou're in there for something else. What
I'm asking for is nothing makes sensehere, Dorothea. Nothing makes sense.

(44:39):
Everything you said you can't really substantiate. Mister McAuley tells me another thing.
Mister Sharpe kills me another thing.And I've got a guy that's been missing
for at least two and a halfthree months. I don't I have,
And the social worker that says I'vebeen working with the guy all the time,
and he just up and leaves,and I'm thinking, well, wait
a minute, and then all ofa sudden, they didn't want anything to
do with him and didn't. Yeah, no, that's not so, that's

(45:02):
not so. She worked with them. She worked with them. She's the
one that made the report. Iknow it, and I was going there.
And what I'm saying is, Ihear this a year ago. A
year ago, I hear this.I didn't have how in a year ago?
No, not him, I heardabout other people, you know what.
I hear it. I heard,Hey, I feel it only fourteen

(45:22):
twenty success streets killing people and burythem in their backgyard. How do you
explain the body in the backyard?I don't want to have feed down.
I know it. When you findout how old it is and see that
I didn't have anything to do withthat. What if it's only a year

(45:45):
old? What if it's two yearsold? What if it goes back and
it's going to be in between thatnineteen seventy nineteen eighty two, How do
you even explain that it isn't oldenough that it's already the bones are disintegrating.
I can tell you it looked likethey're splesh though that you know,
That's what I'm trying to say.Then then what are you going to tell

(46:06):
me if I say hey, theysay me at the max maybe at that
time zone where you were there.How do you explain that somebody stuck in
your backyard but a human body andburied other people living there. It was
two of the families that lived downstairs. Finally, towards the end of the
interview, the investigator tells Dorothea howhe feels. He believes that she knows

(46:28):
more than she is letting on,and she claims that her niece propelled a
lie about her that caused numerous rumorsto pop up regarding her, specifically that
Dorothea Puente was killing people and buryingthem in her backyard. Do you really
think I'm a jilting You want meto be truthful with you, I'm gonna
be real truthful with you. Dorothea. I think you had somehow you're involved

(46:51):
in it. It may not havebeen by your hand, but it's by
somebody's hand. And I think youare very very frightened right now. You're
looking and you don't know what toAnd it's not just because you had any
prior background, because there's been alot of people, I mean, we
talk most of people. We talkedto all the time, so I understand
that point. But the problem is, I think what you realize is this
whole thing is up. I thinkyou realize that whatever has been going on

(47:15):
is up. It's over because weare going to uncover that yard and you've
lived there. And that's why,Dorothy, I'm saying right now, if
this whole thing is up, there'speople who have been missing and you can't
even explain why. And then whenyou tell me it's something that isn't totally
different than what I know? Whyam I wrong? Am I lying?

(47:37):
And what I haven't there? Myconsciousness not bothering me when I confess to
my other stuff and went to prisonpart I'm as glad to get adultment,
okay. And that's why you'll neverrest and you have no intention of going
back to prison. I know that, And I don't know if you would
honestly tell me. I don't knowright now if you would tell me that,

(47:58):
if you did, yes, Iwould tell me. Would I don't
know, because I can't think thepressure and stuff. Well, if you
didn't, somebody else did. Andthe only other person that I can say
that has remarkably been around when theseguys have disappeared against mister mccollege. Question,
mister home, I am, butI think you might have knowledge.

(48:19):
I think what I basically want toknow from you is where is mister Montoya?
Where he really don't know? Andyou said you saw him. During
the interview, police were trying topush Dorothea to tell the truth. At
the time, they did not believethat she had single handedly murdered anyone,

(48:39):
but that she knew more than shewas letting on. Dorothea was allowed to
return to her home after her interrogation. However, some time between the day
of November eleventh and November fourteenth,Dorothea fled. She would buy an airplane
ticket to Los Angeles, but itwas a false trail. She never got

(49:01):
on the flight. The police wereflabbergasted. Why would this woman run if
she claimed her innocence. The policeconducted a massive search to find her.
When the police dug around a littlebit deeper, they discovered all the bodies
in her yard, as well asevidence that she had been cashing the checks
of the deceased individuals. What wouldlayer come to light is that each victim

(49:24):
had a high level of a drugcalled florazepam, a drug that is intended
to help those who have difficulties fallingand staying asleep. Dorothea had dozens of
prescriptions for the drug in her room. One of the more disturbing facts that
would be later revealed is that thestate in which some of the bodies were
found when they were unearthed, BettyPalmer had not only been decapitated, but

(49:49):
her hands and lower legs had alsobeen removed. The reasoning behind this is
unknown. As more and more wasuncovered in this case, authorities were getting
increasingly frustrated at the fact that Dorotheawas nowhere to be found. While they
tirelessly searched for Dorothea, she washiding out in the Royal Viking Hotel located

(50:09):
in downtown Los Angeles. Her falsetrail was actually a true one. She
would book a room under the aliasDorothea Johansson, and she did her best
to keep a low profile. However, after some time, Dorothea was getting
cabin fever, staying in this smallhotel room for days on end. She

(50:30):
decided she was in the clear enoughto go to a local bar. While
at the bar, she was usingthe name Donna Johansson. She would strike
up a conversation with a man namedCharles, and instantly she was back into
her scheming mode. She found outcrucial details of his financial situation and she
began plotting her way to steal fromhim. Luckily for Charles and unfortunately for

(50:53):
her, Dorothea got a little toodrunk and came on way too strong.
She suggest, trusted to the manthat they moved in together, and this
sent up red flags all around him. I mean, he only didn't know
her for a few hours at thatpoint. The longer he spent around this
Donna character, the more uneasy Charlesbecame. He couldn't put his finger on

(51:15):
what exactly it was apart from herforwardness, but this feeling in his gut
was something more, and it madehim uncomfortable. At some point, Dorothea's
companions said good night to her,and she was very disappointed. When the
gentleman returned to his home, heturned on his TV to hear the news
report. The news was repeating thesame thing and had been for the last

(51:37):
hour, about a woman named DorotheaPuente who was a suspect in multiple murders
earlier in the day. The newsreporter had shown a phogo and he was
almost sure that the woman he hadjust shared several drinks with who called herself
Donna, was actually Dorothea Puente.Charles didn't want to call the police on

(52:00):
the off chance that he was wrong, so instead he called a news station
because the news wasn't showing the phogoof the suspect at the time. The
reporter agreed to come to this manand show him a picture of Dorothea Puente.
When Charles saw the phogo, hestill wasn't one hundred percent sure that
Donna was Dorothea, but despite that, he still gave all the information to

(52:21):
the news reporter. With this newfound information, the reporter called the police
and gather a camera crew and headedto the Royal Viking Hotel gather her around
the door to her room, thenews reporter would knock. When Dorothea opened
the door, she was met witha camera in her face and a news
reporter asking her if they could seesome identification. At this moment, Dorothea

(52:43):
knew that the jig was up.She would grab her id and show them
who she was. Authorities arrested Plentelast night in Los Angeles after receiving a
tip and La Woodour met her ata bar and says Plente seemed friendly,
yet he knew something wasn't right.But in the end, the place the
picture kept coming back from the morningknows. She asked me about my income

(53:07):
and I told her so and Ilive in a very limited income to live
on social Security disability. She seemedto know all the figures she was interested
and maybe getting together and sharing ina parking No, didn't you think that
was weird or rot? Dorothea wasimmediately taken back to Sacramento. During the

(53:30):
entire trip, she claimed her innocence. The process of ideing all the bodies
and gathering up all the evidence neededfor the trial took quite a long time.
Pre trial hearings would not begin untilApril of nineteen ninety once everything truly
started. The prosecution presented Dorothea asa deranged woman who cared about nothing except
money and herself. The defense wouldcombat that with claiming that due to the

(53:54):
fact that this case had been allover the news, that Dorothea's right to
a trial was being compromised. Everyoneknew who she was the death House landlady.
However, despite the argument of thedefense. The judge would grant that
the proceedings could move forward. Itwould take a few years before the trial

(54:14):
would truly begin due to many delaysin the case. When things did begin,
over a hundred and fifty witnesses wouldtake the stand and a multitude of
evidence would be presented to a jury. After all the evidence had been presented,
the jury would decide the verdict.The first debate over her conviction took
days to reach, and they wouldclaim that they were deadlocked on all nine

(54:36):
counts that Dorothea was being tried on. Instead of claiming a mistrial and having
to start all over again, thejudge gave the jury an opportunity to converse
about the case one more time.On August twenty sixth, nineteen ninety three,
the jury reached a verdict. DorotheaPoente was guilty on three counts of
murder. Two were first degree andone was a second degree off A mistrial

(55:00):
was the cleared on the other sixcounts of murder. These counts would never
be tried again. We the juryin the above entitle cause find the defendant,
Dorothea Montalvo Puente, guilty of thecrime of murdering the second degree of
Leona Carpenter, a lesser included offenseof that charged account four of the information
Verdict. Count five, We thejury in the above ent title cause,

(55:22):
find the defendant Dorothea Montalvo Puente guiltyof the crime of murdering the first degree
of Dorothy Miller, as charged incount five of the information Verdict. Count
seven, We the jury in theabove ent title cause find the defendant Dorothea
Montalvo puentein guilty of the crime ofmurdering the first degree of Benjamin Fink,
as charged and count seven of theinformation special circumstance. We the jury in

(55:46):
the above and title cause, findthe special circumstance allegation that the defendant Dorothea
Montalvo Pointe did commit multiple murders towit at least one crime of murder of
the first degree and one or morecrimes of of the first or second degree,
to be true. On December eleventh, nineteen ninety three, Dorothea Puente

(56:07):
was sentenced to life in prison withoutthe possibility of parole. Dorothea's response,
she said she didn't kill anybody.Dorothea would carry out her sentence at the
Central California Women's Facility. Throughout hertime there, she vehemently claimed her innocence
and never once admitted to guilt.On March twenty seventh, twenty eleven,

(56:30):
Dorothea Puente would die of natural causesat the age of eighty two. It
seems fairly clear that Dorothea Puente wasat the very least responsible for the deaths
of the tenets of her boarding house. What is uncertain, though, is
how she was able to dispose ofall those bodies, even to the point

(56:50):
of mutilating them post mortem, withoutanybody noticing. It. Begs the question
did she do it alone or didshe have help? We will most likely
never know the answer to that question. Not real good, Not real good.

(57:12):
Thank you for listening to this episodeof The Apex and the Abyss.
You can find the show on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. If you
would like to reach out to medirectly to drop a line about the show,
please feel free to email me atApex and Abyss at gmail dot com.
If you'd like to support the show, there are quite a few ways
that you can do that at nocost to you except a few minutes of
your time. You can head onover to Apple Podcasts and give the show

(57:35):
a rating and review. You canalso head over to tepublic dot com to
buy merchandise. You can become aPatreon where you can head on over to
him Laya plus and join the show'scommunity. There. On Himalaya Plus you
will have access to add free episodesbefore anyone else, as well as bonus
content and much much more. Thankyou again for listening. Until next time,

(57:58):
we're asking what had happened? Howcould a convicted felon end up running
a boarding house? Is one neitherStevenson found out. It's keyser than you
might think, and she joins usright now with Moore on that report.
But don boarding homes are probably theleast regulated shelters there are, making it
all too easy for people like DorotheaPoente to operate one. The gruesome tale

(58:21):
began unfolding over the weekend, Sacramentopolice digging up body after body in the
yard of a boarding home. Thelandlord of the home, the prime suspect,
a woman who had a police record, A woman who just six years
ago was arrested and convicted of druggingsome elderly residents of another boarding home and
stealing their valuables. How could sheend up running another facility. Oh,

(58:44):
it could happen easily because she getsout of prison, she comes to Sacramento
or wherever, she gets a licenseto do business. She's not fingerprinted.
CII check is not done. Shesets up her business. Unlike a boarding
care facility, those who want toopen a boarding home only need a business

(59:05):
license, and to get a businesslicense, there is no background check,
no finger printing, and no regulations. But we find situations where people are
likely to be abused, neglected,or exploited because there's no regulation within these
facilities. The Department of Social Servicesis the agency that usually refers to those

(59:27):
who need a place to stay.They are the wholess, the mentally down,
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