The Atheist Experience 29.45 with Justin and Mike Brigandi

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everybody knew a guy in high school that had a
picture of a model in his wallet that was absolutely
his real girlfriend, but for some reason, whenever somebody wanted
to meet her or talk to her, she suddenly didn't
have a passport, couldn't find a cell phone, didn't have
minutes for nights and weekends. Rightly and justifiably so, if
that person was in your friend group, they got roasted

(00:21):
by everybody in your friend group. Even now, as I'm
saying this, you're probably thinking about a person that was
in your friend group that did exactly this, yet now
is fully grown adults. In the year of twenty twenty five,
we're told that we're not allowed to make light of
people who claim they have an invisible God far away
that talks to them but won't answer prayer. Yet they

(00:41):
never can demonstrate that their God actually exists. Grown men
and women get mad at atheists when we won't validate
their imaginary friend. But I refuse. I will not validate
your theistic brain rot syndrome. I will mock your god
until it becomes more credible than your Canadian model girlfriend.
But the day is a special day. You have an

(01:02):
opportunity right now to call into the show and demonstrate
that your God is not imaginary. The lines are open
and the show starts now. Welcome in, friends. It is
twenty twenty five, in the year of our Dark Lord,
October twenty six, and I'm your host, justin. You might

(01:25):
know me the Deconstruction Zone, and am I joined by
a friend of mine, a mega scientific rock star, your
geology Daddy, Mike Brigandy. Welcome in friend, Thanks Jsen.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I appreciate you having me on and it's an
honor to be here on Atheist Experience and looking forward
to your good show.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
We are certainly excited about some calls that hopefully we'll
be able to get into the queue today. We've also
got a special guest that's going to be coming in
and speaking with us at some point about another atheist community.
And before we get started, let me first do an
introd announcement. The Atheists Experience is a product of the
Atheist Community of Austin. It's a five O one C

(02:04):
three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking,
secular humanism, and the separation of religion and government. The
last one seems insanely critically important, right now, so hopefully
we'll have some theists floating up with what I can
only imagine are killer arguments. In fact, maybe by the

(02:25):
end of the day's live stream, I'll go outside, look
at the trees and be like, what does Scott that
must be from God? You think that's an inevitable result
here today?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, thank sal Yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing all
kinds of arguments. Hopefully we get some scientific arguments in there,
and if there's any philosophical ones, I'd be happy to
also talk about those two.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
It'd be a great time. Now, I'll make for those
who may not know you on YouTube, although you do
have a YouTube channel, we're getting closer to ten thousand followers,
give us a little bit of a bird's eye view
of your background, the clip of content that you like
to create, and where they can find more of your content.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah. So I'm mainly on TikTok. That's my main account
where I it's under my same name, that's my handle.
I talk about science content, general science topics, space, Earth sciences.
I also talk about philosophy something there. I also talk
about technology news things like that, and that's I have

(03:24):
over six hundred thousand followers there and that's where I
mainly make content, but also YouTube, I post my full
content where I do debates on my TikTok live and
I post them there, debates with these and atheism, philosophy,
things like that. So yeah, if you want to see
more of me, check them out YouTube or TikTok.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Absolutely, I think that was the first thing that popped up.
That's how I found out you had a YouTube account.
I was already following you on TikTok and at some point,
I don't know, the apps all share information, I'm sure
with the same overlord, and at one point you just
popped up on my YouTube feed. I'm like, oh, I
follow that guy on TikTok and so I watched some

(04:02):
of your full debates on TikTok. I would let him
play as I sleep. I like to listen to debates
when I fall asleep, because you know, that's you know,
what are you gonna do? Right? You got to sleep
to something. But that's how I found out. YouTube was
the bringer of life there for me, letting me know
that all your stuff is recorded. So if you miss
his stuff on TikTok, if you're not able to see

(04:22):
some of his debates on TikTok like they're preserved in
perpetual fashion on YouTube. You can find them there, so
make sure you check them out. But Mike is no
beginner at the debate game. He's been around for a while.
You've been on TikTok now for at least five years, right.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, about six years. I've been on TikTok and it's
been a heck of a ride. Starting from basic videos
and atheism, I've learned so much since then. I've enhanced
my understanding of philosophy and science since my beginnings on
TikTok and YouTube. So I'm happy to be here and
excited to get going.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
That is exciting. And last question I wonder in Tina
Hamilton from So Free to say hi in a second,
But for those who haven't seen some of your content,
you used to be in the faith, correct, Yes?

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I used to be Christian up until I was around
twenty years old, so that's about ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, and then Satan reached his icy fingers into your
life with misinformation that could have only come from CNN.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
I was asked a simple question, you know, do I
believe in evolution or Adam and Eve and I had
a hard time contemplating the answer to that, and I
went back to the drawing board, and I was like, Okay,
let's dig into the Bible. Let's dig into evolutions, let's
analyze with you know, which one's true. And what became
true to me was the evolution because of the evidence,
and from there I slowly gradually left the faith entirely.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
I feel like that's the experience that a lot of
us have. You know, a lot of us are like
people think that we wanted to like, we just wanted
to go sin obviously, right, obviously, but you know most
of us just left because like the math wasn't mathing anymore,
you know.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Correct, Yeah, I just didn't add up. When you understand
the Bible the way you take it literally, it just
doesn't add up as compared to science.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Agreed. Now, if you're in the queue and you think
that Mike and I are crazy, that signs in the
Bible go together hand in hand, and that the Bible
is true, and Jesus walked on water, and donkeys talked
and magic snakes convinced women to eat fruit by all
means calling, and we'd love to hear about it. But
if you believe in any other version of God, we'd
love to hear about that as well. We love an

(06:35):
argument we've never heard before. If you have a unique
twist on why you think God is real, or you
have a specific God that you don't hear about often,
we would love to hear about your God. To be fantastic.
It looks like we've got one theist loading up. We're
going to get to Sam here in just a minute.
I want to bring in Tina from Sophie and get

(06:58):
some information from a Hello atheist community. Tina, can you
hear me hi?

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Justin?

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yes, great to have you, Tina, thank you for being here.
So Sophie, people may not realize this, but there are
a lot of like atheists and humanists communities out there,
and yours is so free.

Speaker 5 (07:16):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
That's right. It stands for Society of Free Thinkers of Ontario.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
I love it Canada, by the way, right, that's right, Yes,
not Ontario, Ohio. We got one of those, but it's
not the same, right, And.

Speaker 6 (07:28):
So we go on.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, go ahead, I think there's a delay between our call,
but don't worry. Go ahead, I'm listening.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, So I'm really excited to share our group with
you and our conference coming up and the events that
we hold.

Speaker 7 (07:41):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, it's going to be in Ontario, presume right.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yes, we're located in southern Ontario that's not too far
from Toronto. So we invite anyone from the southern Ontario
area around to come and join us, and even if
you're further away. We have lots of ideas to share
and to hopefully make Canada and our communities and humanity better.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, we love that for our neighbors to the north.
I know sometimes Canada doesn't get as much love as
they deserve, but I've lived near the Canadian border all
my life and I absolutely love the people in Canada,
and I love the fact that you guys are forming
atheist communities, free thinking communities, humanist communities. Important question though,
we're there be timbits at the get together.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
We definitely eat a lot of timbits.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
If it's bring your own, don't worry, there'd be a
tim horton nearby. What dates are are you do you
have set on the calendar for the conference.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
The conference is on November twenty second, It's a Saturday.
It's a full day event. We have several speakers, six
speakers and there'll be food and it'll be a great
opportunity to network with other non believers, questioning people. We
have a mix of eighty is humanist diagnostics. Of any

(09:02):
of that sounds appealing, you'd be welcome because we have
a lot of opportunities to discuss our ideas, to share
thoughts and you know, ways to provide community for people.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
That's fantastic. And you guys to have a website. It's
so free dot c a so free dot Ca. So
if you want more information about the organization, or about
the upcoming conference or for future events, go to so
free dot ca. Are there any more resources that they
should know about that they can access in their own time. Yes.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
If you go to sofree dot Ca, you will see
an events page, you'll see what our vision is about.
You'll see a donation link. We are a nonprofit charity.
Everything is volunteer based and volunteer run. We make a
presence at multicultural festivals. We meet in person for brunches

(09:57):
and movie nights, so there are always we have lots
of in person events and those are always posted on
the website at sofree dot ca, as well as a
link to register for the content.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
We're excited for that. So November twenty second, twenty twenty
five is going to be the conference. For more information,
so free dot ca and they can just sign up
on the website. Is it ticket only or can you
just show up?

Speaker 4 (10:25):
There is a link to ticket.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Okay, so you do need to schedule ahead, get a ticket,
don't just show up. Come prepared and so we really
appreciate that. Any other information they need to know about
the conference ahead of.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
Time, everything is on the website We've got. There'll be food,
there will be plenty of parking, free parking. There'll be
people to meet you at the door and welcome you
in and get you all set up with food and
notepads and things like that that you will want to take.
There'll just be lots of great speakers. You'll be able

(10:58):
to meet them and have sit down at the tables
with them and discuss your ideas with them. Some of
them have books as well that will be available at
the conference.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Sounds great. I really appreciate that, Tina. We were just
talking before the show that like atheists need a community,
secular humanism, we all need to be in a community together.
It's one of the things that I feel like people
lose when they leave religion, and a lot of times
when they leave religion, if they can have a community,
they realized they didn't miss They don't miss the religion,

(11:30):
nor did they ever need it in the first place.
What they actually needed was just some community, some people
that love and care about that that they can share
life with. So, like, we're thrilled to know that your
organization is out there in southern Ontario and that there
are other organizations like yours as well. We really appreciate
you being here, Tina, and also to everybody in the

(11:51):
organization that makes the conferences and everything else possible. You
know that these types of things don't happen overnight.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Their big effort, you know that's correct.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yeah, And the help of ACA promoting our event, we
really appreciate that. And Lee Gamble will be our MC
for this event. So we're really excited about Daddy did
a great job last year. It was such a success.
We're doing it again and having him back for that,
so we're very excited to see everyone there.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Sounds great. Well, Thank you so much, Tin, and we
appreciate you being here and letting us know what's upcoming.
And if anything you can do, make sure and let
us know absolutely. Thank you, Thank you Tina. Now, Also
if if you're in the community, we want to do
more of these segments in the future. We want to
know and be able to spotlight other secular organizations, other

(12:37):
organizations that we can say, Hey, do you need community,
do you need support? Do you do you need like
minded people to talk to? Let us know. We want
to know that you're out there. We want to be
able to network and support your guys's cause. Email us
at spotlight at atheistdashcommunity dot org. This will get to
the ACA in a specific location Spotlight at Atheist dash

(12:59):
Community dot org. We love to hear about what you're
doing and be able to participate and share in the
events that you're doing because as a community, we all
grow stronger when we all grow together. Nobody's in this alone,
none of us. None of this happened overnight. You know
my deconstruction journey. I'm sure Mike's deconstruction journey. A lot

(13:20):
of us we deconstructed because there was other people in
the community that were there to help us think through
some of these things and to give us some resources
to bounce off of. So we really appreciate everyone in
the community. With that, let's bring in our first caller.
We've got Sam in the queue. Sam says he's from Florida,
and I'd be curious to know about this particular this

(13:44):
particular call prompt. So Sam, correct me if I get
your call prompt wrong. But I'm seeing in the call
prompt it says ten precepts of cult of excuses. Can
you elaborate on what you mean by that?

Speaker 8 (13:59):
Actually? Is the ten precepts of the cult of excess
supporting extreme debauchery. You know, the main precepts are, you know, sex, drugs,
and alcohol and just pushing life to the limits. You know,
the pleasure principle is the driving underlying and you know,

(14:22):
worry about morality is for the week, you know, forget
the rules and forge your own path kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Okay, so you don't you don't have morals?

Speaker 8 (14:32):
I think you know it's got ten. I've got ten
precessor working on them.

Speaker 9 (14:38):
You know.

Speaker 8 (14:38):
I may present it as a five or one see
or whatever nonprofit. Is it a four to one? We'll
figure it out. But like I don't you let's hear
some of the atheists get some to get down with this,
you know me, let's get some well it leaves one
hundred Mike at this point.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Mike, not Mike, I mean Sam. Let's let's get some
stuff out of the way. I know who you are.
I've fought you before. Mike hasn't been able to talk
to you, although you change your name every time you
come in. That's fine. How about you. You explained for
the audience and everybody what you actually believe in, and
so we can we can have a base to know
where you're starting from and where we want to take

(15:18):
the conversation. So what what God do you? What God
specifically do you believe in?

Speaker 8 (15:23):
This is what I'm saying. This could be like a
metaphorical god, but this is the god of hedonism and
excess drugs, alcohol Like I've got Foster's oil cans being
delivered from Walmart today and man, I'm gonna be watching
Dexter and pounding on back. You know, I'm just you

(15:44):
got it it?

Speaker 7 (15:45):
But is that right?

Speaker 8 (15:46):
Sometimes you need a good lawyer, and you know that
I had the best in the state of Florida ways
of getting out of the UI's and stuff like that.
You don't. That's just make sure you don't get caught.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Sure, so we'll try this again. Sam, Do you actually
believe in God or do you just like to troll
this call and show this is like?

Speaker 8 (16:08):
You know, I'm more agnostic, but this is a good
concept here. Now, this could be a metaphorical type thing
for the atheist that doesn't really have to worry about
morals so much.

Speaker 7 (16:19):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 8 (16:20):
They could just be in Yeah, he is an aspect
of it, and then you don't have to necessarily have
a god. You just this is. This is how I've
lived my life, and me and my friends we partied
since Great Agent. You know, we were like in the
ninth grade.

Speaker 6 (16:39):
You know.

Speaker 8 (16:40):
I think it's just like, don't worry about these moral
codex of society because sometimes the reality flippery.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
And the pleasure principal enjoy.

Speaker 8 (16:52):
And just drink and be merry. How could you go wrong?

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Well, I mean the Bible agrees with you. Bible says
drink and be merry for tomorrow we may die, and
I don't think that's necessarily bad. But as much as
I'd love to do with some Florida man nonsense, we
would like to have an actual conversation about what you
do believe in. So I want to make sure we
actually know what you believe in. So if you can
help us out, that'd be great. Do you actually believe

(17:18):
in a god?

Speaker 6 (17:19):
This?

Speaker 8 (17:20):
If they all love a freak? I mean, this is
how I've lived my life. This is my religion, this
is my faith.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
We didn't ask about your religion, and we asked about
your God? Do you actually have a God and doesn't
have a name.

Speaker 8 (17:32):
If I'm telling you this is the way you live
your life, cardamn, not just suck out the marrow, choke
on it if you want to, really, I mean, just
take it to the maximum extreme. And that's what I've done.
And I've had so many female I mean, you can't

(17:52):
go wrong. They're all satis.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
I'm sure you've got to be there, freak.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
You don't want to.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, So Sam's troll. He calls in under various names.
I always forget his previous names, but his voice is
super recognizable. Sam, listen, if you wanted to talk about God,
we would love to talk about God. But we're not
gonna like if you came here to troll, We're not
going to do it any longer. So I guess I'll
just give you one last opportunity to uh to defend

(18:22):
the god that you may or may not believe in.
Did you want to do that?

Speaker 8 (18:26):
This is how I've lived my life. I believe this
is coincides with the universe.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
And no, that's fine. Uh well, I mean, uh hope
hope to uh hope to hear from you some other
time and we can, uh we can steal man your argument,
hopefully at least and help to set you up the
best version of it before we destroy it. But I'm
actually not sure he's a theist.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I don't know what that was. But uh, he doesn't
either soundly afforded me an argument to me, like you
said it.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Certainly is well, that's fine, we we do uh listen,
if you have a unique perspective, we'd love to hear it.
But I don't think he had a neat perspective. I
think he might need to go sit in the can
for a bit. But that is fine. If you're watching
right now and you're thinking, hey, these atheists don't know
any better. We need to call in and have a
conversation about why my God is absolutely real. We'd love

(19:16):
to hear it. All the arguments. If you've got a
new twist on it. The cosmological argument, fine tuning argument,
argumentum look at the trees is fine as well. Call in.
I promise Mike and I are nice. We're experienced debaters.
We're not going to attack you unless you say something
truly awful, then we might have to say something in response.

(19:39):
But as long as you're nice, I promise you're going
to get treated nicely.

Speaker 7 (19:44):
Here.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
With that, we're waiting for a theist to call in,
so we're gonna cover. We're gonna grab a couple of
super chats, and while we're doing that, theis slowed up.
The atheists are in here sending money to a charitable
organization in the name of the Dark Lord. You can
prevent this from happy by calling in. Only you can
prevent this, So we need your phone calls to get rolling.

Speaker 7 (20:06):
Here.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
That being said, we've got some super chats, actually some
some leftovers from last week. We've got one from science
Lover Thank you so much, says like chens are okay,
but I'm not a fan of calcium oxalates. Apparently those
are kidney stones. I didn't I would not have known that.
Oh yeah, all right, and we've got a super chat
from our friend Blind Liby. I'll never I'm always going

(20:30):
to do that, Blind Limey, thank you for that. Blind,
Like Jamie rather it says what part of the show
was your favorite, Timmy, I liked when Jason wind about
singular They them pronouns for a long time. And it's
actually a really good point. Mike, you've you've done some
debate topics on the trance topic.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yes, I'm surprised by the amount of people that are
offended that we have pronouns on the screen. Can I'll
never understand why that offends people.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
It's just foreign to them, you know, like people whenever
they are confronted with something they don't understand or it's
just different from them, they have this initial reaction to go, oh,
I don't want I don't like that. It's just standard
human behavior.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, I think that's probably the correct assumption about that.
We've all got a super chat from our friend Gretchen.
Great to see you, Gretchen. Thank you for the supertest,
says October twenty sixth Are you using Are you using
the Julian calendar? Just I apologize it should be adjusted
for Gregorian time. And that's actually another good army. I

(21:31):
don't know if you've ever been convinced, but somebody once
recognized that we are in the year twenty twenty five,
which can only be reconciled because Jesus changed time. What
do you think about that argument?

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Do you change time? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah,
that does sound logical to me at all.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
No, it's certainly not. It's I guess it's a better
form of argumentum from popularity. Doctor Dave was blood good
to see my friend. Thank you for the super test,
says ah, yes, let him cook, Let him cook. I'm
happy to send you some East African seasoning and spices
with my tithe quickly and gladly subscribe to Mike's YouTube

(22:13):
channel and following on TikTok. Rock hard for Doug and
simply what for Sharon? Well, thank you, thank you letting
us know. And remember Mike does if you miss his
live streams on TikTok, he does have a YouTube where
they're uploaded. And if you love science content, follow him
on TikTok so you can get a hold of some
of his content. We love science creators in this community

(22:33):
because the reality is like one of the greatest weapons
against harmful theistic concepts is just showing them how anti
science it is.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Right, Yeah, I talk about everything from the Big Bang,
space astronomy. Everythinker science says. If you don't if you
don't think evolution is true, come on up. Well, I'd
love to talk to you about that. If you think
the flood happened, the global flood happened, come on up,
I'd love to talk about that. I just posted a
video debunking that just a few days ago.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Actually, that brings up a good question. I'd be curious
how you handle it, being that you've got some training
in this area, which is, how do you handle the
talking point where when it comes to the geological layers,
sometimes you find things that are like vertical up in
the layers, or you might find something embedded in coal
that's relatively recent. How how do we account for these phenomenon?

Speaker 2 (23:24):
You mean like they're recent layers? What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Well, so people will say like, well, the layers were
deposited over long periods of time, that causes the stratification.
But then you'll see a tree standing straight up through
the layers. How does something like get occur?

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, obviously that the layers of the earth can due
to play technic movement, they can shift in a way
that they break or things like that happen over time.
You can have trees, they can come up to their
more recent layers, right, and then you have trees and
all kinds of things existing in the top layers. So yeah,
just because they are the top doesn't mean they're say
the most recent. And this is another geological principle that

(24:03):
the geologists abide by. They look at the total area
they look at they also dated to confirm the date
the radiometric the rocks and yeah, so that's how they
do that.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Oh and then I'm sure, I'm sure if we get
some theists on the line tonight we might be able
to get into some talking points about how carbon dating's
fake and the government invented radiometric dating and it shouldn't
be trusted. Well, we'll probably have some fun, hopefully, But
we had another super chat from Lanto. Says rockhard for Doug,
wildly wet for Sharon and Jacking for justin. Thank you,

(24:42):
Jan Doo, we appreciate that. And our friend Godwin is
with us tonight. Thank you for the super jab. My
friends is sam I doubt all those ladies were satisfied,
and I agree with this statement. I don't suspect they
were afro Storian. Great to see this says, see Sam's
deity is Slannish. Slannish for this call. Does anyone know

(25:07):
what that means? I don't know either, slashed. Maybe we'll
see dexter. Great to see you tonight. Thank you for
the ten doar. Superchest says Justin. You have talked about
Paul the heretic. But if writings of Paul are older
than the Gospels, wouldn't it be the other way? The
Gospels are heretical since Paul is closer to the source.

Speaker 10 (25:26):
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
When I say Paul's a heretic, I don't think he's
a heretic necessarily for Christianity. He's a Jewish heretic. He
totally and fundamentally changes the core doctrines of Judaism. He
has no idea what his religion is even about. Not
only that he hasn't read the Hebrew Bible. I don't
even think he could read Hebrew, which is why he
makes a gigantic blunder in Galatians chapter three, making a

(25:48):
whole argument from Grammar about how the word seed is
singular rather than plural, meaning the promise of Abraham must
have gone to Jesus and not to a whole offspring
of people. When if he had no that zarah in
Hebrew is a collective noun. It only shows up in
the singular form in the Hebrew Bible, even when it
refers to a whole multitude of people, he would have

(26:09):
known that this is a stupid argument. But since he
couldn't read Hebrew because he wasn't Hebrew Hebrews, he wasn't
a pharisee, he was a heretic, he would have known
how silly that argument is. You only need to get
through like Hebrew one oh one before you know how
bad of an argument that is. God Win good to
see it, says I she her pronouns on he him
friend to wake up him. Hold on, God, When I

(26:30):
got to read that a second time, make sure I
she her pronouns on a he him friend to wake
him up. Oh, I see what you're trying to I
think what you're suggesting, Godwin, is sometimes when people don't
like using pronouns, you call them by the wrong pronoun
on purpose to help it click that it's it's you
don't like being called the wrong pronoun like. So if

(26:50):
you are he him, like I go by hear him,
and if somebody just randomly started calling me a she,
I would feel weird about that, right, because those aren't
the pronouns that I use. That's a fair point God,
when I could see why that might be effective. I
also like to use the God argument, which is God
classically is genderless, completely immaterial, yet demands that he is

(27:12):
a he. It's irrelevant. So if we can to supply
he label to something that has no chromosomes, absolutely no pain,
then I don't see why it's not a problem that
we can use our pronouns as desired here on earth.
It's preposterous.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, Christians don't like when you call God she or
her for some reason.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
We should do that anytime someone brings up the pronoun topic.
I'm just going to start doing that by default to
see how they behave just to see what happens. There
should be a lot of fun. Gretchen thinking for the
additional super chat, Gretchen got a question for Mike. Greta says, Mike,
are you familiar with carbon and do you suffer? Philbros.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I've heard of the name carbon on TikTok Yes, I talked.
I talked to philibros all the time. You know, it's
it's part of the job. I think it's also important
to have a philosophical literacy. This way you can combat
these kinds of arguments, especially any kind of presuppositional arguments
or you know, basic teleological or basic ones that because

(28:14):
of the philosophical warning, it might sound sophisticated, but it
actually Isn't.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
That that's such a good way to put it, because
the philosophical arguments usually have the air of sophistication but
not real substance. And I think half the time they're
trying to pass themselves off, thinking they can win with
the rhetoric and not with substance exactly.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
They feel like they have a false sense of you know,
you're equipped with something. It's like having a gun with
blanks in it.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Indeed, and we're still waiting for a theist to call in.
Remember we do take a theist calls if people want
to call in, but we do prioritize theist callers agnostic callers.
That's usually our priority. But if you if you're saying, hey,
I see this my guy for the first time. I
love to ask them. Que actually more than welcome to
jump in queue and do so. We're gonna read a

(29:03):
couple more super chests while we're waiting for guests to
load up. Abe the Cat, Good to see him, my friend,
Thank you for the supertest, says I didn't come from
Oh god, I didn't come from no monkey, checkmate atheists, Mike,
how often do you hear, well, if we evolved from monkeys,
how come monkeys still exist?

Speaker 9 (29:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (29:23):
All the time. Yeah, it's just a complete misunderstanding your
evolution as well, because we don't necessarily come from monkeys.
This isn't like morphing time, like power Rangers. It's a slow,
gradual thread of life that branches out, and so we
share common descent with the other animals, most of them.
But we don't come from monkeys literally.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Indeed, and Ecta fool. Good to see tonight. Thank you
for the supertest, says Rock Hard. For Doug Well, Ecta,
thank you for that. And last one for now from
our friend Adam Brown. Great to see him, my friend,
Thank you for the supertest, says just two wholesome dudes
having a handsome off Tonight, Rock hard for Doug. Well,
thank you for that. And listen, that's why I introduced

(30:07):
Mike as geology daddy. Come on, come on, you've you've
never seen a more handsome geology guy, have you. Let's
just let's just be a real here, That's what That's
why the the ladies are are too intimidated to call
in right now. They see Mike's face and they're like,
I don't want to look silly on on on stream.
That's fine, but we are. We are waiting for for callers,

(30:29):
so feel free to jump in the queue. The number
is five one two, nine to four two and listen.
You could you could be the one that sends Mike
and Justin to Sunday school. This school, this Sunday, next Sunday,
actually day is Sunday.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah. I'm very open to to their being a god.
I'm very open to the to any possibility out there.
And it's funny because a lot of theists will say
that atheists are closed minded, arrogant, but you know, most
of the time, from what I've seen, we're very open
to any new ideas.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah. Sure, So, like when you were coming out of religion,
what kind of feelings were you having I know for me,
they were kind of dreadful. I didn't. I didn't enjoy
my experience. What was yours like?

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Well, I like, I've always had a scientific background, and
so the shift for me was very gradual and it
wasn't as terrifying as a lot of people, a lot
of others experiences, but it was. Yeah, it took maybe
a few months for me to to kind of grip
with the fact that that there wasn't a god. So
it was very gradual for me, and it was actually

(31:32):
enlightening for me. So I'm I enjoyed the process, and
in retrospect, it was like the best thing that ever
happened to me.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
How did your friends and family react? Did do you
find that you had some hostility or were people kind
of accepting?

Speaker 2 (31:45):
I kept it very personal, I kept it very secretive,
and so I didn't I didn't really talk to talk
about it with anybody outside of my coworkers or you know, friends,
so my family, but over time they understood and they
were fine with it. So they they're very liberal and
the way they approach these things, so that's great.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
So one of the things that because my experience was
a bit like yours, I had a lot of I
didn't have a hard time coming out in terms of
the people in my life. I had a hard time
because I was leaving my religion. But what I've found
from getting online, and you've probably seen it too, is
that there's a lot of people that are really hostile
towards people leaving their faith. And it kind of breaks

(32:25):
my heart to see people that have been like they've
been kicked out of their homes, their parents won't talk
to them anymore, and like, man, what a difficult place
to be in. But if you're listen, if you're watching
right now, and you're in that situation right now, you
are not alone. There's a lot of people that have
gone through it before you, a lot of people going
through it right now. We've got the ACA has a
huge discord. My crew on TikTok has a huge discord

(32:48):
for people deconstructing. If you need community, make sure you
hook up with somebody to get that community. If you're
in southern Ontario, check out so Free, go to the
conference in November and starting to working with other people
that are have already been there and can kind of
help give you some grounding. Because I feel like sometimes
when you lose your faith, it takes a little bit

(33:11):
to find your new footing, like you don't really know
what to grab onto, you know, absolutely, But anyways, we
don't listen we have we don't have a single theist
in the call Q yet. I think that could only
mean we've defeated all the theists. We did it, we won,
then left pack it up. Hey, that's it, we're out.
I'm gonna go, pet the kidies, let's go.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I just I just wonder what the world would be
like if everybody were secular or at least had science letters.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
That's such a good point because remember, Mike, I think
you're a little bit younger than I am, but I
remember when I was, say, in junior high high school,
there was a big debate around stem cell therapy. Could
you imagine how like more advanced society could have gotten
if we didn't have these huge hang ups over like
stem cell research and things like that, Because the things
we're doing the stem cells now are unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, even in the administration there they're cutting scientific research
funding for anything in regards to climate or gender, and
who knows what if we did research on gender in
some way and we found inadvertently a cocure to cancer
or something, or you know, there's so much power in
scientific research and to just say no and cancel it

(34:22):
is very, very sad.

Speaker 9 (34:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Well, to be fair, according to info Wars, we we
did do some research we were turning the frogs gay.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
So it's another misunderstanding.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, we've got that under our belt. At least. Never
let let me read a couple of super What was that, Mike.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
I was gonna say, there are some species of animals
that literally can change their sex, and so that was
the confusion about that frogs can actually do that. They
naturally change your sex.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Isn't that remarkable? And you know, I'm still fascinated by
the number of species that can reproduce asexually. Like it's
just it's wild to me, Like how diverse the biology
of life is. It's fascinating.

Speaker 6 (35:03):
I wish I was so.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Like when I grew up, I was obsessed with electricity.
I went into electrical engineering before Bible college and seminary.
But I wish I was able to study more biology
because now I feel like I can appreciate it as
an adult, especially as an atheist.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Absolutely. Yeah, the more you learn, the more you appreciate
the world. When you learn more about it, you understand
more about it, you appreciate it so much more.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, for sure, let me grab a couple of supercheches.
We might have a guest loading up. It looks like
they might still be screening. If you, hey, friends, if
you want to call in and talk, If you've got
questions for me or Mike. You got Bible questions, I'm
more than happy to answer them. I'm sure Mike would
love to field some of your questions while we're waiting
for its theists to grow a proverbial pair. Maybe that

(35:46):
yahweh might give them to call in. We'll see if
we can get some robust discussion going on. If not,
I guess we'll just plant our flag and call this
our soil. Now we've got a super chat from No God.
Required couldn't agree more, No God, thank you for the
five dour super chat, says I'm fairly new to you,
and I know of Doug, but I don't know how

(36:06):
he came about story time. So the story of Doug
and Sharon, which you see on the shelf behind me
next to the tree, is I did a live stream
just a hair over a year ago now where I
posited that there's no difference between a pet rock and Jesus.
All the benefits you can get from believing in Jesus
you can get from a pet rock. They answer your

(36:28):
prayers at the same rate. They listen to you. You
can you can cry to them, you can worship them,
all the same stuff. And I've glued some googly googly
eyes on a rock the community named him, and I
begged Christians for like an hour and a half or more.
I must have been live for five hours that day

(36:48):
to actually I beg Christians for like five hours to
give me some reason why Jesus is better than this
rock with googly eyes painted on it. And the debate
went so well that we had to keep So we
put Doug on the shelf and he became a member
of the community. And then I realized that there was more.
Doug has a consort that was sent to me all

(37:09):
the way from Oregon, an absolute miracle, because theis logic
is that we never observed evolution. Therefore it can't be
true we haven't watched a species over a million years
changed into another species, and that's fair. That being said,
that can only mean that what I'm holding in my
hands is a miracle of God, because this is petrified wood,

(37:32):
and we know it takes many thousands of years for
wood to petrify typically, and obviously the earth is only
six thousand years old, which means this must be a God.
This is part Doug. It's made from stone, so this
is Sharon Stone. And together you have the King and Queen,
Doug and sharn Stone. And that is the story of

(37:52):
Doug and Sharon Stone and how they came to be.
And now they're a big joke because we bring them
out when we get preceurppers, because I make sure they
realize that I can make a presuppositionalist argument for the
rock on my bookshelf, and it's equally as valid as
whatever nonsense God you're inserting into your preceup argument. There's
really no difference. You can do it for anything. You

(38:12):
can prece up to tooth fairy argument, couldn't you.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
You can prece up to atheism.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
That's what actually Breakfast Taco does that. You've probably seen
Breakfast Tacos on YouTube. He's got a dynamite presuppositional argument
for atheism. It's amazing, all right. See the breakfast tacos.
Afrostorian says this is a clarification from the previous comment.
Says Slawnesh is a gender fluid deity of pleasure. Oh shit,

(38:40):
I like Schlanesh now of excess and depravity. Fuck can
I get I'm gonna go online and get a bobblehead
from Warhammer, Fantasy, Age of Sigma, and forty K. I
don't know any of those words mean because I'm like
practically a boomer, But thank you for the clarification. I
appreciate that. And Maryland, great to see you tonight. Maryland
says Justin is a god. Good to see you, Maryland,

(39:02):
hope you're doing well. And I'll repeat as always, no
gods exist, but it's good to see you. And Gretchen
against his M and J. That's you. And I assume
your last favorite debate betting three eleven on flurf. Actually,
when was the last debate you really enjoyed? I assume watching.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Honestly, I don't really watch that many debates, but I
used to. I loved watching Aaron Raw debate you know
about evolution or anything like that, anything regard in regards
with the flood or evolution. All love Aaron raw Oh.

Speaker 11 (39:31):
For sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
I think my the last debate that I like, I
really just sat down with popcorn and just enjoyed every
minute of it was And I hate to a minute
it was so long ago. Was the Bill and I
I Kenham debate because it was such a layup like
this ken Ham is a goof and I was just
it was like watching Billy Carson just go down in places.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Oh, you know, James Torr and Professor Dave. I think
that was a great debate. I watched that one. That
was pretty good.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
That was a really good one. And there's a last
super chet for now. We got some people in the queue,
Doctor Fudge. We appreciate being your thinking for the ten dollars.
Super Jest says the community talk earlier. Would you say
it's more important that atheists needing communities start local or
do you think getting any community should be the goal?
I think the former. So here's my take on a

(40:23):
Doctor Fudge. And you know, I got to remember I'm
not a therapist, so when it comes to human mind
and emotion, you know there are probably better people. But
I think any community is better than no community. If
you need somebody in your life, who cares about you,
and that somebody just happens to be someone that you
talk to on the internet once a week that lives
across the globe. That's great. We love that for you.

(40:45):
Sometimes you just need an ear, Sometimes you just need
someone to understand what you're going through, whether or not
that's somebody in your local community or not. But that
being said, some people do prefer personal contact. I've got
family members that I know would I would much prefer
some sort of group that they can go to and
meet for lunch or see on a regular basis.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
What do you think, Mike, Absolutely, one of the main
reasons why people go to religion is because of church
and the community it provides and offers, you know, and
with atheists we offer we have a very little community
on a global scale, right, And so that's why I
love the atheist community here. And I love the fact

(41:27):
that the more we connect with each other online, right,
the more people are going to feel oh okay. So
there is a way we connect, we can connect with people,
There is a way where we can form a sense
of community online especially, and so I think we get
way more atheists. I think people would be way more
open to becoming an atheist if we offered that same
degree of community to people.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, for sure. Let's grab Larry from the queue. Larry
is a fellow either atheist or maybe an agnostic from Texas,
and Larry says perception of atheists in the community. I
assume there's he might be part of that community. Larry,
welcome in. Are you an atheist or an agnostic?

Speaker 3 (42:09):
I am an atheist in fact, I'm associated with the
atheist community of Austin.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Sure, and did you have a question or a comment
about atheism within the broader theist community?

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Well being online a lot. I think one of the
problems is the theist community as a totally unrealistic view
of what atheism is. And I think if people knew
how committed atheists are to secular humanism, it might help
in the procession. But sure, that doesn't really happen.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Well, you know what, Larry. I think morals are important,
and I would I'd hate to speak for Mike, but
I assume he does because Mike's actually a vegan. I
think Mike has spent a lot of time thinking about
through some of the morale body of atheism. I'm curious
how how you view like some of the moral arguments.

(43:06):
When people come up and say, well, atheists can't have morals,
how are you going to respond to them talking to me?

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah, that is oh yeah, you're asking Mike, Mike, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Well look, yeah, there's a lot of talk about morality.
You know, where's your morality?

Speaker 5 (43:22):
You know.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
The problem is that philosophically, morality can be simple as
something as simple as like a statement or an intuition
or feeling you have about something right like look at
emotivism for example, where morality is reduced to something like oh,
this feels correct or this feels wrong, and therefore it's wrong.
That's just my view about this. I think theists over

(43:42):
complicate morality because of their lack of understanding of where
it comes from and when where could come from. We've
been ingrained since we're children that morality must come from God,
especially in Christian households. Morality must come from some authority,
and we keep looking for somebody out there to you know,
get a sense of morality. But in reality, it involves

(44:04):
a lot of deep introspection, involves a lot of deep
questioning and contemplation about how you should interact with other
people and uh, that's that's where morality comes from in
my view, and so the whole theust approach about it,
I think it's just just a completely the wrong way
to go about it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yeah, secularly, humanism is all about morality really, and it
seems that religion or THEUS have basically appropriated morality as
their own, not realizing that it came not from God
but just from natural community or what what do you

(44:47):
what would you call it? The need for human beings
to associate with others, to cooperate and cooperate.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, of course. Well, Larry, here's the other thing too.
When when theists are pressing you on the moral argument,
press back ask them this easy questions, which is, do
you believe that morals come from your God? And are they?
If so, are they objective or subjective? The reality is
if they come from their God, then they're not even objective.

(45:14):
They believe in subjective morals just like you do. They
just come from God rather than from a human And
then maybe the next question you might want to ask
them is, Okay, how can we know what those morals are?

Speaker 12 (45:26):
Like?

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Okay, let's let's agree that proper morals come from God.
Where can I find them and they're going to point
you to some holy book. Well, then you can do
some internal critique. You can ask them, okay, if you
know the Holy Book right, if you've read the Koran,
if you read the Bible, so on and so forth,
you can say, hey, listen, in your Holy book it
says that it's it's okay, it's moral to own slaves.
It says in Deuteronomy twenty and in first tam of

(45:49):
fifteen three and elsewhere that you can kill men, women,
and children, even little babies. Do you think that that's okay?
Do you think it was ever moral to punish somebody
for crimes that they were actually in this of And
then you can show them in the Bible all the
time God claims that he's punishing they never committed.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yeah, I punish someone for the crimes of their ancestors.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, First Team of fifteen three is and definitely a
case of that. And so one of the one of
the tools you have in your tool bag is you
can make them affirm some of the most nonsensical moral
positions in the Bible and just see if they break
or not. Because the reality is deep down inside they
know that they don't think slavery's okay. They know that
they don't think it's good to murder babies or else

(46:33):
they would be pro choice. They know that they they
don't think that it's okay to kidnap women and force
them to be your war brides in war. And so
even if, like when you're debating someone, you know they're
not going to concede at that at that moment, but
at least they'll go back home and hopefully one day,
within the next couple of days think about some of
the nonsense that they just affirmed, and you might be

(46:54):
able to move the needle a little bit.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
Yes, yes, Also I was interested in your earlier conversation.
Are you talking about community and having a place together
and talk about your own particular situation and have somebody
to talk to. I'm also involved with another nonprofit blank

(47:17):
the Optimist Club. I've been the Optimist Optimist Club for
oh many years, since two thousand and eight as a
matter of fact, and we meet every Wednesday. You don't
have to go, but it has become a habit with
me because I have a lot of friends now with
the Optimist Club. I would love to see that happen
in the Atheist Community, a weekly launching to get the

(47:41):
local local fellow atheists together and just talk and have
a conversation. Yes, and as far as my particular case
in my family, there are a lot of extremely religious
people in my family, but I'm I'm kind of elder
in the family, but everyone knows I'm an atheist. But

(48:03):
that doesn't change my relationship with with my family members.
They're very apparently, very open, uh about okay, you know,
their own religion, but they accept me and my atheism
without a problem. I don't get any fa.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Love to hear it, Love to hear it well, Larry,
thank you so much for calling in. It's good to
hear from you. Hope you're doing well, and uh, hope
you're staying warm. The cold weather is starting to set in,
so I think you're down in Texas here, okay for
a while. You don't got no cold weather yet, but
thank you for calling tonight.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
Supposed to get down in the thirties.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Oh, it's definitely, thank you very much. Hi, cheers, friend,
good bye. Yeah, I forgot the cold. The cold front
moving in is going to basically hit everybody.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Oh yeah, even here in Florida. It's going to get
down to the forties.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
We've got an agnostic in Q that said he's deconstructing,
so this should be fun. Somebody in process hollis Is
from Washington says he's deconstructing, but stuck on the Gods,
not reconciling, the follow the angels and putting his house
in order. So this is an interesting topic. Has Can
you kind of fill out kind of what you're processing

(49:07):
here for us?

Speaker 5 (49:09):
Yes, I'm curious to know I have. I don't know
if it's a theory or not, but I'm wondering why
God does not reconcile with the fallen angel from heaven.
I understand that the reason why he fell was because
he wanted to.

Speaker 9 (49:25):
Be like God.

Speaker 5 (49:26):
And so I'm thinking that God said, Okay, you wanted
to play God, here's your chance, and put him down
here on earth and created us so that he could
play God, so that Satan or the fallen angel could
realize and reconcile with God and take his place back

(49:48):
in heaven. My money is if there's any other religions
that have any fallen angels from paradise or heaven.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Oh yeah, this is an old theme. We see the
same thing in Greek mythology, but the older mythology comes
from Mesopotamia. Like the popular theory on like the History
Channel is like the Onanaki, that's not true in like
ancient Mesopotamia. The divine beings that came down and gave

(50:20):
like secret information to mankind and sort of disobeyed the
other gods. They were referred to as the Apcalu. And
then we find some remnants of this narrative in the
Book of Enoch, but it was a very it's a
very popular narrative. You'll find this particular narrative in all
of the ancient Near Eastern religions, some of the Mediterranean

(50:40):
religions as well. It's just very popular. It's like it's
one of those are like archetypal themes, much like I
think of like the Disney movies. You know, a lot
of the classic Disney movies is like waiting for your
prince to come. This is kind of one of those
archetypal themes that just seems to exist. There's a god
or some gods or some divine beings that disobey these

(51:02):
gods here and then come down to humanity and either
corrupt them or help them or some combination of both.
It's it's very ancient. It's been around for a long time.
But to answer your question, the reason why it shows
up in the Bible is because in specifically, specifically in Genesis,
they were riffing on ancient Babylonian ideas. The tower narrative

(51:24):
comes from ancient sumer They have a narrative about a
mound being built, brothers warring with each other or being
at war with each other, like Canaanable or Jacob and Esau.
That is right out of Egyptian mythology. There's like, in fact,
it's one of the one of the great disputations as well,
like farmer versus Shepherd. That's why we find that echoed

(51:46):
in the Cane versus Able narrative. There were seven great
disputations in ancient Mesopotamia. One of them was the farmer
versus shepherd, which one is actually greater for society. So
when we read like these narratives of like the fallen
angels and whatnot, it's just a Biblical creators trying to
take these common motifs that everybody already accepts and put
their spin on it using their God. Does that makes sense?

Speaker 5 (52:08):
Oh yes, yeah, But you know, I listened to your
program and O and several other programs, and this topic
has really never been addressed as far as I recall,
and I well, I'm just kind of really stuck. And
I understand that, you know, the Christian point of view

(52:30):
of us being sinners and we need to uh reconcile
with God, but it seems to me like, uh, it's
kind of a we're just kind of anecdotal to what
is going on in you know, in reality.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Yeah, so here's here's kind of the fun stuff with
the topic material that you're you've called in with, which
is like, it's not actually, it's not an accepted thing
within biblical academia that Satan was necessarily a fallen angel.
Like we get this mythology from Isaiah fourteen and Ezekiel

(53:08):
twenty eight, but by and large academics understand that this
is not actually about Satan. The Satan mythology was tacked
on to it hundreds and hundreds of years after Isaiah
ever lived. So the narrative that Satan was a fallen
angel isn't really in the Bible. And even Jesus, Jesus
says in John that Satan was a liar and murderer

(53:28):
from the beginning, which means there was never a point
where Satan was like a good guy and then he fell.
That's not really original to the Biblical narrative. These are
ideas that developed much later. So trying to find a
solution to why God didn't handle the fall of Satan differently,
I think is already starting on the wrong foot because
not really a biblical concept, that's just something that got
popularized within Christianity. I'm not sure if we need to

(53:51):
develop talking points against it just to point out how
silly it is that God would create his own enemy.

Speaker 5 (53:57):
Right, wow, Yeah, some other things that you know, I've
read some some of the Bible, and you know, I
think it was Paul who told us.

Speaker 9 (54:10):
I believe it was maybe.

Speaker 5 (54:11):
Timothy, to present yourself worthy to uh correctly divine the
word of truth? Is that am I mistaken?

Speaker 1 (54:20):
I mean, I don't have that specific reference on hand.
I'm willing to trust that it came from from Timothy.
Paul had a lot of stock phrases like that though.

Speaker 5 (54:29):
Oh okay, yeah, And so I find in the Bible
there are are some truth but for the most part
of it, it's all pretty much all garbage. But I'm
just really stuck, you know, I'm kind of stuck in
this rabve hole of.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
What God's purpose is.

Speaker 5 (54:48):
That's a great question, reconciling with, reconciling with you know,
the fallen angels, and U uh uh, you know U
not reconciling that.

Speaker 9 (55:03):
I guess.

Speaker 5 (55:04):
Other words, right now.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
You've probably heard me bring up this topic before. Jude
and tewod Peter state that those fallen angels from Genesis sixth,
the ones that stupt with the women, have been locked
up in chains and darkness awaiting the judgment. Right, which
would you would logically think, well, if Satan was one
of those fallen angels, he should be locked up with them.
The reality is Satan wasn't one of those fallen angels,

(55:28):
so you can't treat Satan in the same vein as
the fallen angels. The fallen angels have been locked up,
they have been dealt with, Which is why I think
it's a mistake to include Satan with those angels, because
that would mean that Satan would be locked up. But
he's not locked up, right, So Satan is not one
of the fallen angels. He's at best, he's like God's henchmen.
He does God's dirty work, you know.

Speaker 9 (55:48):
What I mean?

Speaker 5 (55:49):
Oh, okay, okay, yeah. Well then the Michael, the archangel
that fell from grace.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Oh no, not Michael. Michael shows up in like specifically
in the Book of Daniel as a great hero. In fact,
I think the Messiah that shows up in the Book
of Daniel or whoever inherits the Kingdom in Dannel seven,
I think that is Michael the Archangel. That's why he
shows up at the end of the Book of Daniel
as being the rescuer of God's people before the end.

(56:18):
But that's a whole different conversation. But Hollis, we appreciate
calling in. We we do have we do have some
time limits and want to get to our next caller.
But it was great to hear from you. And this
is a deeply interesting topic. I would recommend on on
the Genesis chapter six topic, get the commentary by Klaus
Westerman in the Continental Commentary series. He goes into this

(56:39):
topic a bit. It's a really good topic and I
don't think you'll regret purchasing that commentary.

Speaker 5 (56:44):
Okay, great, I appreciate your input. Thank you very much. Certainly,
I really appreciate call.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Absolutely have a great one friend.

Speaker 10 (56:52):
You beat fine.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Mike, do you remember, like where your headspace was the
first time you heard about Genesis six and the angels
sleeping with humans and creating a race of giants?

Speaker 2 (57:04):
It was probably yeah, probably after I left religion, but yeah,
it was the whole Book of Enoch and the whole
whole Genesis makes me, uh makes me laugh.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Sometimes it's a wild thing that people will just accept
it like it's it's true, like and and then we
should look at them like it's a normal thing to
believe it's crazy. Yeah, Well, let's get uh. Is it Ahmed?
I assume or Ahmed will find out. Ahmed wants to
call in from Germany. Guntag wants to discuss what caused

(57:36):
a big bang. We'd love to hear about it. Is
it Ahmed or Achmed?

Speaker 7 (57:40):
It's actually Ahamed?

Speaker 1 (57:41):
I thought that might be the case. Achmed is great
to hear from you. I hope you're doing well and
can you maybe elaborate on your question. I think this
is a topic that Mike is probably tuned into. I'd
love to talk about.

Speaker 12 (57:53):
Actually, I want to ask you guys, how you are.

Speaker 7 (57:56):
Are you fine?

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Yes, doing very well.

Speaker 10 (57:58):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (58:00):
Oh that's great, okay.

Speaker 13 (58:01):
I was just curious about your opinions and I want
to hear from you what caused the Big Bang? According
to you, what type of ideas.

Speaker 10 (58:10):
Do you have?

Speaker 2 (58:11):
So what caused the Big Bang? This question is requires
a lot of nuance here. So the Big Bang and
the standard model is one in which we find that
the universe was smaller, hotter, and denser, and then it
expands into this universe. We know there's a cosmic evolution
that precedes the expansion. The problem is that asking before

(58:33):
the Big Bang, it doesn't really make much sense under
conventional physics, right any quantum mechanics, and so in quantum
mechanics there are ideas in which the universe is goes
beyond the Big Bang, and that there's a Hilbert space
in which there are many different big banks that are
produced by quantum fluctuations. This happens in a quantum vacuum.

(58:54):
So you can have a quantum vacuum of literally empty space,
but because of the energy fluctuations, you randomly and spontaneously
get big bangs out of literally the quantum foam it's called.
But look, we don't have the absolute answer to this.
All we can confidently say is that the Big Bang happened,
that there is a cosmic evolution. We can observe this

(59:16):
looking at the microwave background radiation. We can observe it
by looking at primordial gas clouds. But quantum mechanics deals
with very abstract ideas that are not quite Our credence
levels aren't quite sufficient yet, But with more data it
will be. Is that an answer your question?

Speaker 12 (59:35):
This was very good.

Speaker 13 (59:36):
I was just about your opinion, but I add some
questions for an example of me believest that turno.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
We don't know. It could be it could very well
be the case that the universe is eternal, even if
the Big Bang happens. The Big Bang is not necessarily
the beginning the universe can be like I said, that
larger space in which it is eternal, and that quantum
date itself is infinite in dimensions, it's internal. It could
also be the case that the universe did begin at

(01:00:06):
the Big Bang. It's plausible both ways, but we don't
know for sure.

Speaker 12 (01:00:11):
Okay, My next question would be, we believe what do
you think? How big is the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Chance that there's a personal god, the chance of there
being a personal god I think is low for many reasons. One,
we have explanations for everything we see, at least the
frameworks for explanations for everything we see, consciousness and the universe, life, evolution,
like all these things we have explanations for, so there's

(01:00:43):
no need for God. And look at design. People say
that they're designed, but we can look at the gratuitous
complexity that comes with our bodies. I mean, look how
how many points of failure there are in our bodies.
Any little thing can go wrong and it can lead
to disaster. No good designer would make such a gratuitously
complex mechanism. Look, we can go through these arguments, but

(01:01:07):
I don't think there's any good evidence at all for
a personal god unless.

Speaker 12 (01:01:10):
You have even though our lifetime is limited.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Our lifetime is limited.

Speaker 13 (01:01:15):
Yes, I mean we are going everybody's going to die
one day, right, So if a personal god creates something bad,
doesn't make it.

Speaker 12 (01:01:25):
I'd like you to point in to exist.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
I didn't quite get the last thing you said.

Speaker 12 (01:01:31):
Just what I meant was just. I mean we are
going to die one day, everyone, every living creature. So
if there the after life, would it be possible for
God to test us and to create such things as
diseases and catastrophs.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
I think I see what he's asking. He's asking, if
we're all going to die one day, could all the
suffering here be a test?

Speaker 6 (01:01:57):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (01:01:58):
Okay, that's what I meant.

Speaker 5 (01:01:59):
That's what I'm not.

Speaker 12 (01:02:00):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 13 (01:02:01):
I'm a non native English speaker, and definitely it's not
hard for me, and the first time online, I'm just
a little bit nervous.

Speaker 11 (01:02:10):
No problem, great, Yeah, that completely Yeah, sure, I mean
there is Is it possible logically that there is a
being who is testing us?

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Sure? The problem is that what kind of test is
this one in which this being throws us into this
this lesson? Right, like a teacher on the first day.
Imagine the teacher in the first day of class giving
you a textbook and saying, here's the final exam.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
That's the first day class.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
You know, there's no there's no actual lesson we're learning,
there's no actual guidance. Right, A good teacher if they
want to test us, A good teacher teaches us things
and actually guides us along the way up until the test.
But if this God is really a teacher, what kind
of lesson are we learning of going through all these
atrocities that we see. You know, what kind of lesson

(01:02:59):
is it in in genocide and all these things. I mean,
it's very obscure to me, at the very least that
there would be such a lesson to be learned. Unless
you have any evidence of such a lesson, I'd love
to hear it. But I'm not convinced at all that
this is a test.

Speaker 12 (01:03:15):
Okay, I mean I don't have an evidence. I mean,
I'm just fears. And then Pears is somebody but who
believes in God by faith?

Speaker 7 (01:03:24):
Right, Okay, right, expansions for our fears.

Speaker 13 (01:03:31):
But I mean the reason why I believe in God
is simply.

Speaker 12 (01:03:35):
Because of this. I can't explain.

Speaker 14 (01:03:37):
I can't imagine how all this, the universe, the Big Bang,
all the creatures, all the living beings existed, not being
a default default our creator.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Sure, we can clearly explain all the life existence through evolution.
Evolution is a fact of reality. We can see it
and measure it and observe it happening in the Foster
record and in lab experiments in our DNA. Although I
understand from your perspective and many creationists alike, have your
perspective that the universe seems too life seems too complicated

(01:04:12):
for them to grasp, and so they resort to God.
The problem is that there's a kind of there. You
have to learn about evolution. First, you have to understand biology,
and the more you understand how Earth formed and how
biology works, then you're going to be more able to
answer your question. You know, it's quick and easy to
say God did it, and this is kind of God

(01:04:33):
of the gaps fallacy if you're going to say, oh,
I don't understand how this could be. Therefore God, that's
a fallacious reasoning. My advice to you is to go
learn the science. Go learn how evolution happened, Go learn
how the Big Bang occurs, and then you're going to
be better able to answer your own questions about all
these things.

Speaker 12 (01:04:53):
Okay, but I mean evolution explains as how, but not why.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Well doesn't explain why either.

Speaker 7 (01:05:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
You can say, oh, God wanted to make us go
through a test, but I can say that about anything.
There's no actual reason why. There must be a why, right,
who said there has to be a why you did?

Speaker 7 (01:05:12):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Your Bible dead or your Karan dead. There's no objective
measurement as to if there should be a why or not,
or a cosmic purpose or not. We could very well
just be apes on a rock and there doesn't need
to be a purpose beyond what we give the universe itself.
We can give purpose, we can give me neither things.

(01:05:34):
And that's likely what's I think happening in your case, right,
You're trying to find a meaning somewhere, trying to grab
onto something. But maybe you can give purpose to to
the world around you without there being a gun.

Speaker 12 (01:05:45):
Yes, And my next question would be, I mean, what
about the laws of physics and the laws of nature.

Speaker 13 (01:05:54):
I mean it works all in a system, nothing happens
randomly or just by chance.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Well, there clearly is randomness in quantum mechanics. If you
understand there, there can be random quantum fluctuations. Energy states
can randomly fluctuate. This is embedded in the laws of nature.
So perhaps randomness is actually part of nature itself. But
I agree that there are laws of physics and that

(01:06:20):
things tend to operate a certain way. But you know
that could be that doesn't need to be explained by God.
You can explain that through like I said, quantum mechanics.
You can explain it through some other fundamental ontology. You
don't need God did it to explain anything.

Speaker 5 (01:06:34):
Yes, you are right.

Speaker 12 (01:06:36):
I want to thank you guys for your time. It
was very nice talking to you.

Speaker 7 (01:06:40):
You were very kind.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
That's great to hear from me, Acumen. Listen, we love
to talk to people even if they disagree with us.
And you know, a good friend of mine needs to say,
you can disagree without being disagreeable. And I think that's
where the best conversations happen, when you talk to people
you disagree with, but you can actually leave the conversation
still respecting each other.

Speaker 12 (01:07:01):
Yes, that's right, that's right. Yes, I totally agree on
this point.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Well, best of luck, friend. We appreciate your call and
come back anytime.

Speaker 7 (01:07:07):
Okay, thanks you having nice say.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Here's all right. We're gonna bring in Marilyn next and
maybe we'll get time for Dez. But before we do that, friends,
let's go through a couple announcements. If you like what
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(01:07:33):
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(01:07:54):
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(01:08:15):
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Audio operators, video operators, note takers, call screeners, chat moderators.

(01:08:40):
Thank you so so much for making the show possible,
and for our beloved pets that are are joining us
on an off screen as well that make our lives
an absolute joy. And anyone who's had a pet, this
is one of the thing that makes me think. So
I've been toying with the idea Mike of vegetarian for

(01:09:00):
a while because I absolutely love pets, and the more
I like, you know, everyone's in a different progress in
their evolution, and you know, I deconverted from right wingism
as a teenager, and then I deconverted from religion, and
the older I get, the more I'm thinking, I don't
know if I need to be eating meat anymore. Like

(01:09:21):
I love these animals, and I every time I think
about cows and pigs are so smart, They're so intelligent,
and then the way we abuse them, I think I'm
moving closer and closer to giving up meat every every
time I think about it. But how long have you
been a vegan?

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Yeah, I'd love to hear that I've been vegan for
about seven years now, and like you, like you were saying,
I used to have two dogs, two German shepherds. They
were my childhood pets. And then one day I came
across like a animal slaughter video and I recognized the
first time the star hypocrisy, right, because I love my dogs.
But look what I was doing on the on the sign.
I was contributing to that kind of stuff. And so

(01:10:01):
that's when I became vegan. But yeah, that's good. A year.
I don't have a pet, but maybe I should be
any to get pet.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
I love, I love him. Anyways, we're gonna grab Maryland next,
and we've got one more in the call screaming as
we speak. Maybe we'll be able to get des in
after Maryland. Now, friends of the Channel, you might already
know Maryland. You've seen her in the chat, you've seen
her super chatting. You may not have seen her on
a call yet. I've talked to Marilyn a couple times,

(01:10:30):
so I'll be curious to know what we what we
get into tonight, Maryland. Welcome in Maryland's Maryland might be
new to Mike. Marland says, we're all gods. Can you elaborate?

Speaker 6 (01:10:40):
Yeah, justin I've talked to you way more than a
few times. But yeah, I believe we're all gods because
of God. That I don't believe in creation or evolution.
That we know we're the image of God and we
always were and we always will be. So I I

(01:11:02):
really I feel like atheists are closer to I'm sorry,
I've done with college. I feel like atheists are closer
to you know, God than Christians because I feel like
Christians are more I don't know, they need a master
to rule over them, and I feel like that was
the sort of the lie that was being told, rather

(01:11:24):
than you know, just having a lover and a friend
and so, uh sorry, my son keeps calling me for dinner.
So I just, uh, I feel like that that Christians are,
you know, they're they're you know, they believe a lot
more lives than atheists because they, you know, they feel

(01:11:46):
like they need the virtue signal being moral and rather
than just being being good and being God, they've got
to do the most.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
When you say, when you say we are all gods,
what do you what do you mean by the word
god in that sentence?

Speaker 6 (01:12:04):
Well, we we are, we could do anything. We we
are we can you know anything we put our mind
to that could be thought of?

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
I can jump across the moon?

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
Well, you can jump across the moon.

Speaker 6 (01:12:18):
Not that's I mean, what would be the necessity of that?

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Like, would not do that?

Speaker 6 (01:12:24):
Like if it's not necessary?

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
I mean, the point is that you're wording is so ambiguous.
It's so unclear as to what you mean by God, right,
because you say, oh, it can we can do anything?
But I can jump across the moon. So what do
you have to reduce your definition down to something that's
you know, something that we can do with our nature, right?
Or we can we can only do things that we
are that are physically possible. Right, you can say that,

(01:12:46):
so you can reduce your definition and then we can
get down to something so reduced that I'm just going
to agree with you and say, yeah, we're all gods
in the case that we're all humans. If you're equivocating
God with human, yeah, I agree with you. So you
have to be more elaborate it and what you mean
by God or else you don't have an actual substance
substance of argument here.

Speaker 6 (01:13:05):
Well, I still believe in Jesus. I still believe in Jesus.
I still believe in God. None of those are taken
off the table For me. I believe Jesus said five
thousand with five loves of bread and two fish. So
you know, according to your faith it will be given
unto you. So I feel like we have gatekeepers. We

(01:13:27):
have people who do who you know, burned our knowledge,
you know, hide it from us and make us not
remember what we're truly capable of. What you know, the magic,
the powers that we could you know, possess.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Let's stay a bit focused to here. Let's talk about
the Jesus thing. So that so you think Jesus exists,
and what do you do you believe in Jesus the
way that the Bible describes them, the son of God
and all that, okay by God? When you say God
and that and when you in that context God is
is Jesus?

Speaker 7 (01:14:01):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
So how can you say we're all gods? That doesn't
it doesn't It seems illogical here, It seems it contradictory
what you're saying. But I would further ask you for
that for reasons why I would further ask you for
reasons why you think Jesus exists?

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
Well, the devil doesn't make people only God makes people.
We're all his sons and daughters. We're all, you know,
he doesn't show any favoritism. We're all his favorites. Jesus
was not the only son of God. We're all the
word that became flesh. We're all, you know, just like him.
We're not any different from him. You know, I don't
necessarily feel like he had to die for some psychosis

(01:14:36):
people were in. It was great or whatever that he
did or whatever to help break people of you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
Know a lot of Let's let's stay a bit more
focused here. Look, let's stay a bit more focused. Do
you think do you have reasons, good reasons to believe
that Jesus is a god in the way the Bible
describes it.

Speaker 6 (01:14:53):
I believe we're all the same same thing, like connecting.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
I know, I know you believe that. I understand you
believe that. Asking for reasons? Why you believe that?

Speaker 6 (01:15:02):
Because he's good and he's like the there's just truth.
It has no agenda, And I don't feel like people
have an agenda just by themselves and their own identity.
You know, it's the thoughts that they think, the ideas
that they come up with that make them, you know,
not not stand by truth, like you of your perfect

(01:15:25):
design with two eyes, two ears, amount everything, how it
works and functions properly, that is in itself.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
So when people choke on their food every year, it
does that perfect design? When you when you when you
need glasses and prescriptions every year, is that design?

Speaker 6 (01:15:42):
I feel like eternity is a long time and this
is like a sand, a grain of sand, an eternity,
this experience.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
This you know, Okay, then you've under done You've undermined
your entire point. Right if the if you're going to
say that, oh whatever, it doesn't matter what you're what,
how you're configured, it's still designed because we're going to
die in the end. That doesn't make any sense, right,
there's no indicator that this is a perfect design. And
what do you mean by perfect? What you indexing perfection too?

Speaker 7 (01:16:10):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
You know what you're you're wording the way your your
argument is configured, it's very ambiguous. It's very hard to
to Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:16:19):
I'm not from Christian I'm not a Christian, so like
I don't serve a deaf cult, I don't I believe
death is an enemy. The Bible says death is an
enemy and the last enemy to be destroyed. I believe
we could harness the energy too.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Not a Christian, you're not a Christian, but you believe
in Jesus and that he's God.

Speaker 6 (01:16:37):
Right right, I agree. Some will walk in, some will
walk in, some will be yield, some will races from
the dead, some will look for death and not find it.
It's all like within past, present and future. There there
is like place in a lot for for these things.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
But okay, do you have any any other good reason
to think God is real?

Speaker 6 (01:16:58):
Because I'm God? God? Justin s God your God? Well,
everyone is gone.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
How about how about you do this? Marylyn will end
on a point of agreement. I think you're more real
than Jesus. You're a god, more than more than Jesus is.
He's dead, he's warm food, he's in the ground.

Speaker 9 (01:17:17):
He's in the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
To be fair, the rock on the shelf behind me
is more God than Jesus. Thank you, Marilyn's good to
hear from you. I hope you're doing well.

Speaker 12 (01:17:26):
Rock.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Okay, you took uh Maryland's fun. We didn't get into
flatsh with her, but maybe next time.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
That's a That's the thing that is not surprising.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
That is the thing. Let's grab We're gonna grab a
theist all the way from Mexico named Oric. Oric is saying,
and make sure I want to make sure I read
the prompt right says viganism it is wrong? And how
can you be misled by evolution? Well, or love to
hear from you. You came in with two topics. Now,

(01:18:05):
to be fair, we don't We're not here to debate veganism.
I mean, it's a it's a wonderful topic, but that's
not what this channel is about. That's like an antle everything.
You can man atheists and not be a vegan. That
being said, we would love to hear your second talking point.
It sounds like you have a little bit of a
problem with evolution. Can you kind of fill out what
you're referring to when you think that, like we've been

(01:18:26):
misled by evolution?

Speaker 15 (01:18:27):
Yeah, I mean evolution makes you think that eating meat
is wrong, something that we have done for thousands of years.

Speaker 7 (01:18:34):
That even if you don't eat meat, if you're a woman,
if you want to get.

Speaker 15 (01:18:38):
Pregnant, you can because you don't have enough protein, So
it goes against nature. How do you believe such a
thing because they believe in evolution.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Look, we've done We've done slavery for thousands of years.
It doesn't make it right to continue it just because
we've done it for a long time. And there's no
reason to think that you can't get pregnant if you're vegan.
There's there's all the evidence suggests that people that are
vegan can be very healthy.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
To be sure, my mother has been a vegetarian all
over life, and she had three children, so I don't know,
but she had no meat. She had no meat, then.

Speaker 7 (01:19:12):
Eggs and drank milk and stuff like that. I imagine no.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Eggs, no eggs.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Look, I don't want to turn this into a vegan debate,
but there's there's nothing in meter or dairy that is
required to consume nothing at all. You can get it
all from plant based sources. So that arguments also.

Speaker 7 (01:19:29):
Eric.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Now, your your complaint with veganism thing is one thing.
But you're a theist. You actually believe in a god,
and so you think that your God has a better way,
and that's fine. Before us to consider the better way
that your God posits, why should we believe in your God?

Speaker 7 (01:19:44):
Because if you don't, you stop believing these things. Like
evolution and veganism, and.

Speaker 15 (01:19:49):
You'll believe you can declare yourself to apu the gender
and it makes it real and stuff like that.

Speaker 7 (01:19:54):
It's meant to up your mind to not be connected
to God.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Well, that's not actually an argument, I mean, so to
be sure, just saying I don't like your position is
not an argument why we should accept your position. Right,
So we would still need an argument for why your
position is true, not whether or not you like our position.

Speaker 7 (01:20:13):
It's not about it's being confused.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
Only only you, only you think, only you think it's
a confusing position. We would just say the same thing
about yours. We would say you're confused, right, But saying
you're confused is not an argument for demonstrating why somebody
is wrong.

Speaker 7 (01:20:28):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
You can think somebody is confused, but just stating that
out of your mouth doesn't make it true. So what
are like the facts and evidences that would lead anyone
to believe that your God is real?

Speaker 7 (01:20:40):
I mean, if you think, man China, you are confused,
and I think that's argument.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Okay, So what I'm hearing is you don't have an argument.
Which god do you believe in?

Speaker 7 (01:20:49):
The Christian God? The real God?

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
Christian God, and in your your God has real morals, right,
Have you actually read the Bible?

Speaker 10 (01:20:59):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (01:20:59):
I sure.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
Do you think that there was ever a time period,
or ever an occasion in which it's justified to punish
people for crimes they never committed?

Speaker 7 (01:21:08):
Oh, perhaps they never committed.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
No, no, we should never do that. So if you
read in the Qoran that Mohammed was instructed by God
to punish, say, some women, for crimes they never committed,
you would rightly say, well, that doesn't make sense. It
makes it harder to believe in that God.

Speaker 10 (01:21:26):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
Yeah, open your Bible if you have one. To deroonomy
twenty two, I'd love to show you a passage. This
is a really interesting situation. It says, this is a
law given to Moses on Mountain Sinai. It says, suppose
a man marries a woman, but after going into her
dislikes her and makes up charges against her, slanted during
her by saying, I married this woman, but when I
lay with her did not find evidence.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
Of her virginity.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Will pause there, what evidence do you think you might
have been looking for?

Speaker 6 (01:21:52):
Look?

Speaker 7 (01:21:54):
Yeah, so what.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
I'm asking for, I'm asking for a simple answer to
the question which is what evidence do you think he
was looking for?

Speaker 7 (01:22:03):
Why do you think can explain the Bible?

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
Okay, so I'm not asking you, I'm not explaining it
to you. I'm asking you to answer the question. And
it sounds like you can't answer. So we'll try this again.
I'm asking you. I'm not telling you. I'm asking you.
What evidence do you think this person was looking for
to validate that she was a virgin?

Speaker 7 (01:22:22):
What do you think he was sending up a tread
and it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
I'm not setting up a trap, in fact, I'm just
asking you a question. In fact, if you if you
actually had read the Bible, you would know that that
this is not a trap. This is a simple question.
What do you think the evidence is that he was
looking for? There we go, We found it. Yeah, so
he's looking for blood because that's what they thought was

(01:22:46):
the sign of virginity. So we can continue reading the passage.
Then it says the father of the young woman and
her mother shall then submit the evidence of the young
woman's virginity to the elders at the city gate, And
it says, here is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.
They will spread out the cloth before the elders of
the town, and the elders of the town shall take
the men and punish them. So the evidence is, in fact,

(01:23:07):
whether or not they can produce the sheet, the marritle
cloth with the blood.

Speaker 12 (01:23:10):
Correct.

Speaker 7 (01:23:11):
Yes, that's why.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
Fantastic, all right. So if if in fact she bleeds
on the cloth, then what that means is theoretically she
was a virgin. If she doesn't bleed on the cloth,
it means that she lied about her virginity. Correct.

Speaker 7 (01:23:24):
You should only have sex within marriage.

Speaker 6 (01:23:27):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
I didn't ask you about that. I asked you about
the evidence. Given the way the passage is laid out,
it's basically instructing you to use the bloody sheet as
the evidence of her guilt or innocence.

Speaker 4 (01:23:40):
Correct.

Speaker 7 (01:23:40):
Because marriage is very serious with God, you should not
have sex.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
I'm sure, I'm sure it is. So the question is
based on the evidence of the sheet that is used
to determine her guilt or her innocence. Correct.

Speaker 7 (01:23:56):
Why is that a point?

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
I'm asking you. I will try this again, and I'm
just looking for a yes or no. So if you
have to pray to God for yes or no, go ahead.
And in fact, Jesus says that don't worry. When they
drag you before the council's for words, the hoispirit will
give you words. So yes or no? Is the bloody
sheet the evidence of her guilt or innocence?

Speaker 7 (01:24:17):
Who cares? Why?

Speaker 6 (01:24:18):
I care?

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
And you care too, which is why you're evading the question.
You're so terrified to answer the question because you probably
already know the answer to the question. So again, we're
going to ask you to grow a little bit of
a backbone here and participate in the conversation. Yes or no?
Is the bloody sheet evidence of her guilt or virginity?

Speaker 7 (01:24:38):
Am I a coward for calling you a show that
two a fist against Fontie?

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
Yes, you're a coward for not answering the question. So
we'll try it again. It's a yes or no. Is
the bluddy sheet the evidence you.

Speaker 7 (01:24:50):
Used to play your game?

Speaker 6 (01:24:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
I would. I would if I was in your shoes
and I was about to get cooked, I'd refuse or
run away as well. It makes you look really good,
so I'll answer the question. The answer the question is yes, Yes,
the proof of the woman's virginity was, in fact the
bloody sheet. This is a well known practice in the
ancient Near East and other parts of the world, like
in Africa and some parts of the Mediterranean. Now it

(01:25:13):
says that if it's true, It says verse twenty. If, however,
the charge is true, that evidence of the young women's
virginity was not found, then they shall bring the young
woman out to the entrance of her father's house, in
the mint of her house or town shall stone her
to death. So do you believe that a woman should
be stoned if in fact she was not found to
be a virgin on her wedding night because she didn't

(01:25:35):
believe on the sheet?

Speaker 7 (01:25:36):
What did she say about storing hoever?

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
I didn't. That wasn't an actual answer to my question.
My question was it's yes or no. By the way,
do you believe that it's a fair punishment to stone
a woman based on whether or there's a bloody sheet?
Yes or no?

Speaker 15 (01:25:52):
I believe if you're without saying you should throw the
bird stone.

Speaker 7 (01:25:55):
That's what they didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
I didn't ask. That doesn't answer my question. My question
is do you believe that when the Bible said you
can stone a woman based on whether or not she
bled on that sheet? If that was good or bad.
Do you think that was a good command or bad command?

Speaker 7 (01:26:10):
All commandments of God are god and true?

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
Okay, so this is good. Okay. So it was good
to command the people the Israelites, namely to stone women
who don't bleed on their marrow sheets. That was a
good command. Oh no, because you can only know, Oh,
that was a bad command. Okay. So this is confusing
because I thought you just said thirty seconds ago that
all of God's commands are good, and then I asked

(01:26:35):
you if this command was good and you said no.
So we'll try this again. Are all of God's commands good?

Speaker 6 (01:26:41):
Yes?

Speaker 15 (01:26:41):
Or no?

Speaker 7 (01:26:42):
You cannot understand what that means because you don't have
the Holy spirit.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
It's interesting. I didn't hear a yes or no? Mike,
did you Did you hear yes or no?

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
I did not hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
No, I didn't. I didn't hear one. We'll try this again.
I need a yes or no. Are all of God's
commands good? Yes or no?

Speaker 7 (01:26:58):
Do we have a china? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:27:00):
Can answer that question?

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Okay, So you can't answer it. You're a coward like
I'm calling you to. You can't answer it. Okay, It's fine,
We're used to Christians being cowards. It's fine. So the
reality is you you've never read your Bible. You have
no idea that God thinks it's perfectly okay to punish
innocent women. Are you aware that not all women bleed
their first time?

Speaker 7 (01:27:21):
You'll now doing an expert about week are you?

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
Are you aware that not all women bled the first time?
In fact, according to recent studies from Flow Health, it's
only about forty three percent of the time, so slightly
less than half of women actually bleed the first time
they do the deed. And I actually have documentation from
ancient Greece and from the ancient Hebrews about this particular problem.
In fact, they even some of them even brag specifically

(01:27:45):
about how they can go and did all women and
not cause them to bleed by using particular practices, thereby
bypassing the virginity laws. So we know for sure that
not all women, even in ancient times, not even Hebrew
women always bled. So I'll ask you, are you aware
that not all women bleed their first time?

Speaker 7 (01:28:06):
So you read answered pornographic text. I think that's what
you want.

Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
I didn't ask you that. It's almost like he can't
answer the question here, I'll ask the Chat. Hey, Chat,
put a one in the comments if you are aware
that women don't always bleed their first time. Let's see
if the Chat can answer the question. I know that
the Chat doesn't have the Holy Spirit, but I'm assuming
that they can answer the question. We'll find out. I
could be wrong. Oh, I see a one coming in already. Okay,

(01:28:30):
we got a couple ones coming in.

Speaker 4 (01:28:31):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
It seems like even without the Holy Spirit, the Chat
is able to answer the question. So I'm hoping that
the Holy Spirit is giving you the power. I hope
the paraclet that Jesus left for you is able to
give you the strength to say yes or no to
the question. Do you know that not all women bleed
their first time?

Speaker 7 (01:28:50):
I'm only interested in my wife and not other women,
so I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Care, gotcha. Okay, So you can't be honest. You can't
answer the question because you actually know the logical entailment
that the answer leads to, and you don't actually have
the Holy Spirit. We appreciate that last question on morals.
You believe that all morals come from God. So if
God commands you to do something, say, for example, when
he commanded them to kill the Amalekite babies. That was

(01:29:14):
a good command, right, Oh.

Speaker 7 (01:29:16):
You're teaching the Bible now, why don't you preach them.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
I'm not teaching the Bible. I'm asking you a question.
I didn't I didn't listen. I'm not teaching anybody the
Bible right now. I'm literally asking you yes or no questions.
Do you think it was a good command when God
said to kill the Amalekite babies? Listen? Maybe maybe they
deserved it. Maybe those little fucking babies all deserved it.
I just want to hear from your mouth what you think,

(01:29:38):
ah Rick, you're the Bible teacher. Tell me, was it
a good command when he said to slaughter the Malchite babies?

Speaker 7 (01:29:44):
You are pro abortion, right, so I think for you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
I didn't ask you about abortion. I asked you about
the Amalakite babies. Do you believe that it was a
good command to murder the Amalakite babies or no the
womb I didn't ask you that question. You can run
all you want, Listen, no one's new here. We all
see that you're just running away from the question, and
it'll never work here. I've done this far too long

(01:30:07):
to let your pivoting work. So I'll ask you the
same question until you actually answer it. Do you think
it was a good command when God said to kill
the Amalekite babies? Just be honest, put tent too's down.
Say what you think?

Speaker 7 (01:30:18):
I right answer the question. I thought on all commandments
of God are good.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Then why is this so hard for you to say?

Speaker 9 (01:30:24):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
Okay, so say yes it was good when God said
to murder the Amalekite babies. No, no, it wasn't good
when he said to do that. I'm getting mixed signals
because you just said a minute ago that all of
God's commands are good, and then you're saying that this
command to kill the Malakite babies wasn't good. So I
guess I need some clarification because I you know, I

(01:30:45):
went to school. I didn't study hard in every class.
But I thought the word all is like encompassing, meaning
there's no exclusions. Right, So if the Amalekite babies are
somehow the exclusion, let me know. Because I heard that
all of God's commands are good, and I thought this
was one of God's come So we'll try again. Is
this command to kill the Malachite babies good?

Speaker 7 (01:31:04):
Why are the distressed I called to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
It's not a it's not it's not a trap at all.
I'm simply asking you to give me your opinion about
what the Bible says. Teach me, teacher, listen, I don't
have the Holy spirit. I can't interpret this book on
my own. I need you. I need your help, al Rick,
I'm holy spiritless.

Speaker 9 (01:31:24):
Teach me?

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
Was it a good command when God said to kill
the Malakite babies?

Speaker 7 (01:31:28):
And you have an adult conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
I'm trying, but you won't answer any questions. So well,
i'll give you. I'll give you one one. I'll give
you one last chance. What is it a good command
when God said to kill the Malakite babies? Any dropped? Okay, well,
I think we got the answer to our question.

Speaker 15 (01:31:46):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
And his argument was premise number one. Premise number two
boo who conclusion? My God is real? I think that
was the syllogism for that one.

Speaker 2 (01:31:55):
I could be wrong, you know, he said, well, I
brought up evolution, But the problem is that he was
a first one to bring up morality.

Speaker 6 (01:32:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
He said that we are the ones who are bad
for not agreeing with the with the Bible. Yeah, so
I think you think it'd be so clear and obvious
to Christians, which morality is good about it. But for
some reason, it's with these particular questions they have a
hard time doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
Yeah, it's I gotta be honest, it's it's hard for
me to meet people in real life that can't look
internally at their own beliefs and question them. Isn't because
like you and I both had a journey where we
looked at what we believed, and we came to the
conclusion that what we believe we just couldn't be true. Right,
But like, are we are we crazy for thinking other
people should do that?

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
Yeah? Sometimes we questioned that myself. Right, maybe are we
the crazy ones?

Speaker 6 (01:32:41):
Right?

Speaker 7 (01:32:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
I'm gonna go out. I got one, two, three, I
got four super chats friends. I'm going to get our
last guests in here. Uh uh, and then we'll try
to We've got to just a few minutes left. We'll
get our last guest, doctor Fudge, thinking of another super chat.
It says the community to talk earlier. Would you say
it's more important that atheist needing community you start? Oh, sorry,
I apologize, doctor fudge. We read that my sheet was

(01:33:04):
slightly behind. Carlos, Great to see a friend. I hope
you're doing well, Carlos says, great to see another great
combo Mike and Justin let's grab some crack in and
enjoyed this Sunday class. Well, thank you for that. Weal
appreciate that, Carlos, and it is great to see you
and listen. I can't make advertisements for products here, but
there's some products well known in the community that you

(01:33:25):
might want to enjoy. Also, Carlos, with an additional MX
super chat says, by the way, great to see you
doing great work. Mike always thankful for your thoughts in
your streams.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
Wow, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
And last one from Sonic Schrum, Good to see a
friend says, Then religion is not truth because it definitely
has an agenda. That's a fair point. Yeah, Like if
if you think having an agenda somehow invalidates the truthfulness
of the pursuit, then in fact, I think religion is
implicated pretty heavily. I could youre wrong? Yeah, all right, lovey,

(01:33:58):
I think we've got well, we've got one. Theis we
promise to get in is an an agnostic rather does
from Jamaica, and I'm curious to know what's on Dez's mind.
We had somebody come in just after does. I don't
know if we'll have time to grab them, but we'll
see what we can do. A g I'm sorry. Ag
Agnostic does from Jamaica. Welcome over the other side of

(01:34:21):
the water. Says, if there's no God, what stops people
from being evil? There's no consequences in any sense, So
people do harm until they're caught or they die. So
does can you kind of flesh out what like what
your complaints is? It sounds like what you're suggesting is
that without God you can't have morals? Is that what
you're saying?

Speaker 10 (01:34:40):
Well, not unless necessarily, I know that people have innate
moral It's really just wondering, you know, Christianity kind of
give are what some people say that Christianity keep people
in line because of course you have the consequence of
health per se. So I'm just wondering in that sense.
And when I meant there is no consequence in us,

(01:35:00):
of course we have our legal system, but you know,
some people do harm and then kill themselves.

Speaker 7 (01:35:05):
I'm the same.

Speaker 10 (01:35:06):
Does Christianity in a sense are without God. Doesn't that
then leave people out for a free for all type situation?

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
So I don't think so. And you know a lot
of people on this channel have heard me give an
answer to this particular topic, the moral topic. I'll be
curious to know how how Mike addresses it. Mike, what
do you think? Do you think that we're just reduced
to some sort of goofy, nihilistic no moral concept as atheists.

Speaker 2 (01:35:33):
Absolutely not. I think that, like I was saying before,
morality can be something as simple as just having an
internal sense that this isn't right right, like a deep intuition.
I think this comes from our moral faculties in our brains.
But I think that with a bit of introspection, you
can clearly set up a kind of pathway towards your

(01:35:54):
moral compass. Right, what's going to be good or wrong?
It is going to be a calculation based on you know, benefits,
cons to certain actions, consequences, there's certain actions, it's going
to be a mix of all those things. And so
that's why in philosophy morality is a very highly debated thing.
But the point is that I do the things I

(01:36:15):
want to do because I have an internal sense of
that in my brain that tells me, yeah, this thing
is probably right or wrong to do. Right, I can
put myself in other people's shoes. I have empathy, and
I can make these moral judgments on my own. I
don't need a book, I don't need a Bible, I
don't need an authority figure beyond myself to come to
these conclusions. Like I was saying before, though, it just

(01:36:37):
takes a bit of introspection or else what you're gonna
do is gonna be so reliant on the Bible that
you just can't fathom any other way you can derive morality.
But yeah, you get it from understanding the world around
you and trying to see how you can fit within
it in a way that's better for everybody, because that's
where my morality comes from. Does that an answer your question?

Speaker 10 (01:36:59):
Yeah, definitely where this question is really coming from, because
just to give some context, of course, you know, I
grew up Christians and deconstructing where that's concerned, and I
think I'm pretty much at the final leg of that,
are pretty much at detailed and where I just really
can't logically explain God in that sense. But a lot

(01:37:21):
of Christians use hell as a way to say, hey,
if you don't do this, or if you don't do that,
then you have hell to pay. Or if you kill somebody,
or if you do harm, you have help to pay.
So they use that fear tactic to kind of keep
persons in line from doing harm. So I'm just saying,
if we do let's say we remove all that them
say hey, if we do take that equation, oh other

(01:37:42):
than me personally, because of course, my moral belief is
that you know, people are We're supposed to be good people.
You don't do harm, right, you help protect people those
type of situations. But what's to stop somebody from having
a bad experience and then saying, hey, you know all
of this and I'm going to do harm. What ever
happens to me is what it is. I have no

(01:38:02):
consequence after because I'm we to just die anyway. So
I mean that's dark, and of course you know people
may get into does I'm just wondering, if you remove that,
what else do people do? We just trust people in
their goods in that sense, does.

Speaker 1 (01:38:20):
Have you considered flipping the script on them? And let
me tell you what I mean, Because the Christian will
say that, well, if you don't have a God dictating
what to do, like if there's no punishment for what
you do, then people would just do anything. Well, in reality,
we don't see that happening. I've murdered exactly the number
of people I've ever wanted murder, which is zero, and
no God was required to make that happen. That being said,

(01:38:41):
what you should say to Christians is this in your Bible,
in your doctrine, there is no punishment for any of
these crimes. You can murder people, you can lie, you
can do anything you want to as long as you
ask God for forgiveness before you die, it's all forgiven. Theoretically,
Jeffrey Dahmer and other horrible people will end up in heaven.

(01:39:02):
There there are rapists that will end up in heaven
and rape victims that will end up in hell. You're
not given a location of heaven and hell based on
whether or not you did good or bad things. Your
destination in heaven and hell in Christian theology is only
and solely based on whether or not you accept the
skycarcass as your Lloyd and savior. So that being said,

(01:39:24):
don't let them convince you that without carrots and sticks.
You can't be moral because in Christianity there are no
carrots and sticks. The carrots and sticks are solely to
scare you into believing in the cloud zombie. That's it
has nothing to do with moral behavior.

Speaker 12 (01:39:40):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
And if I can add something, a lot of theists
will say a lot of theists will say that, well,
it's not that just what God says is good. It's
that God's nature is good. Right, There's something about God's
nature that's good. Well, there's a I see a gap.
There's a missing peace to the puzzle there, because how
do you get from God's nature to therefore we ought
not be gay, or therefore we ought not do stem

(01:40:02):
cell research? Right? How do you how do you get
to that to that point just by saying, well, God's
nature is good? Right, There's clearly a missing piece there.
And so, yeah, challenged a theist in their their moral positions,
you'll find that it's very easy to pick away at it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
Yeah, Mike, Mike, I mean, does are you familiar with
the old saying that every time you point a finger
at somebody, you've got three pointing back at you. It's
I think it's definitely popular in the Western country. My
mom used to say that every time you point at somebody,
you got three pointing back in you and the The
premise behind the saying is basically, it's easy to point

(01:40:39):
at somebody else's belief system and point out like what
you don't like about it or find inconsistencies, right, But
people often don't look back at their own moral position.

Speaker 9 (01:40:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:40:49):
So when Christians are questioning you about how you're coming
with your morals, remember they probably haven't questioned their own.
Don't get don't get caught on your back foot thinking, oh,
I have to justify my position now because they haven't
justified theirs yet. They're asking you to justify your position
when they have even thought through theirs. So go ahead
and push back a little bit and say, hey, I

(01:41:10):
don't even think your position is logical. Let's talk about
yours before you criticize mine. That being said, our position
is logically consistent. It's a factive evolution. It's an evolutionary
adaptation that allows human beings to survive as a social species.
If we didn't have empathy, if we didn't be able,
if we can't cooperate with each other, we don't survive.
It's just a fact of nature. But in Christian theology,

(01:41:31):
there's no good reason to be moral. It doesn't exist.

Speaker 10 (01:41:34):
Yeah, that's actually true, because as you're explaining, with the
historical context of the scriptures and everything there, I've seen
all of those things like, Okay, you're killing children who
did nothing wrong, and people are justifying that God is
good because of other It doesn't make sense. But I
know that this thought has been lingering in my mind,

(01:41:55):
and I just wanted to understand your thoughts there. Yeah,
I mean my mind was generally at that same place.
I wanted to hear from somebody else as well.

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
Yeah, hey, well thanks for coming up, Dez. We're glad
to hear it. And you know, we love to hear
people that are like mid deconstruction and trying to kind
of figure out what to do with certain claims and arguments,
because we want to equip people like you to like
have an answer when people come to you, have an
answer ready for him. Don't get caught flat footed, because
the reality is you came to this position using lots

(01:42:24):
of critical thinking and thought, and so we certainly don't
want you to be stymied by believers who haven't even
thought through their position yet.

Speaker 10 (01:42:33):
Yes, I know that you had a cheat sheet but
different things. But then I was trying to remember where
I can find that information.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
Here, there's a link available. Yeah, there's a link available
to all the people subscribe to my channels or to
my Patreon. But if you send me a message on
email or discord, I got your friend.

Speaker 10 (01:42:52):
Okay, great, thank you, all right, cheers.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
Have a great one. Does all right? That was nice.
I said he was gonna be our last call, but
we got just a couple of minutes left. I'm going
to have one more call because I think they'd got
one question. We're gonna grab Billy, who appears to still
be a theist from Kentucky. That's got a question apparently
for me. So Billy, welcome in. I apologize we're kind

(01:43:14):
of short on time. We were going to end the
show at seven thirty, so probably don't have time for
like one question. But I mean, you're on with Mike
and I, so let's have it. What's your question?

Speaker 9 (01:43:24):
Yeah, I'm like sixty five, yuro I was raised straight
up Christian here. Until this year, I'd never heard nobody,
even in my area say that they did not believe
in done. And I thought about it. I go, well,
I pretend to believe in gone, and Cole, you know

(01:43:48):
you got away. Try to hold on to that hope.

Speaker 1 (01:43:51):
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about, Billy, I'm
familiar with it.

Speaker 9 (01:43:54):
Well, it's just like, you know, you can't come out
where I live and tell anyone that you I don't believe.

Speaker 1 (01:44:01):
You'll be chastised. I mean, you'll be ridical people. You're
the sore thumb in the community.

Speaker 9 (01:44:05):
Now, I'll never say it here. So you know, it's
just like but a lot of people I know that
say they do believe. I may listen to what you
say on the Bible and everything, and saying it over
and over and over, having to tell people and the
crazy things that they say back to you. That's what

(01:44:27):
I hear all around me all the time. But it
was something that I figured out when I was fourteen,
fifteen year old, don't been baptized, and I still stuck with.
I got married at twenty twenty one, got married in
church and didn't believe until up again I was about

(01:44:47):
thirty four, and I won't grabbed back on to that again.
And they kind of hanging on turch with just a hope.

Speaker 1 (01:44:57):
I get that it sounds like you know some of
the problem. It sounds like you know some of the
problems already. Let me ask you a question, because like
I've been where you've been before. Do you feel like
you like you've kind of come to the point where
you understand that Christianity is inherently problematic, but you still
want to believe in like a generic God.

Speaker 9 (01:45:16):
Well, I don't want to really void to know God.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:45:20):
Okay, So it sounds like you fully deconstructed. Then you're
just kind of struggling with living in the bubble belt.

Speaker 9 (01:45:25):
Well, yeah, it ain't a problem with me. I just
thought i'd call in because I enjoyed your show and
I got listening to you and on your other show,
the Construction Zone and ill they could throw with you
was you know, I could look at the Bible and
say that everything you're saying is true. That's from Sunday

(01:45:51):
School to UH church. I'm going, why do you teach
me this over here? And now I'm hearing this over here?
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:46:00):
They'll go breat I tell you, there's one promise that
I make to my audience, and that is, I will
read this book to anybody on my livestream. I don't
care if you're a Christian or not. If you believe
that the Bible is true, I will make you read
it because I know they haven't read it, and I
think reading the Bible is the greatest way to deconvert
them from their toxic religion, saying with the Koran, forcing

(01:46:21):
people to read some of the nonsense in the Koran
and the Hadis, the narrations are a fantastic way of
helping them realize the nonsense that they claim to believe in.
But Billy, we appreciate you coming in and saying Hi.
We've got to or in the show at seven thirty,
so we got to move on. But Billy, best of
luck to you down in the Bible. I've got a
lot of family down where you're at. It's a beautiful

(01:46:42):
territory to live in. But I understand that, yeah, I can.
It could be a little bit tough being like the
solo atheist in the community. Yeah, all the best to
your friend.

Speaker 9 (01:46:51):
You too, man, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
Tures. That is, that's a tough place to be if
you're if you've deconstructed and you don't believe anymore.

Speaker 12 (01:46:58):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:46:59):
Yeah, it sounds like he's hanging on just because it's
a hope thing. And I think it's boring to touch
on this a bit that I think that you can
derive a sense of hope as an atheist. I think
that science itself is a beacon of hope in my
eyes because think about how many technological advancements. Think about
all the medical advancements that we are the beneficiaries of,

(01:47:19):
and we live relatively luxurious lives compared to somebody two
hundred years ago, and so science can can power that
kind of prosperous lifestyle that we live today that we
so much take for granted. And so to me, science
is a beacon of hope for the future, for a
better future. And yeah, that's what makes me that what
gives me hope as an atheist.

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
That's a great point. Yeah, I have a lot of
hope for the future. I love seeing the young people
coming out and abandoning these religions. It brings me a
lot of hope and enjoy that the future is going
to be better for them. I'm going to grab two
super chests and then we're going to bring in our
friend Scottie, We've got a super chat from our friend.
Booge says, all rich more like all poor. I hear's

(01:47:59):
them audible groaning for the dad jokes in there. Don't worry,
I got you boo it. I appreciate the dad joke
and Gretchen again, great to see you. Think you for
the six sixty six is the Christian right is currently
starving and removing health care from the poor and doing
it with a smile on their face. Morals my chuckle,
fucking ass. Indeed, I could not agree. I'll never I

(01:48:22):
will never understand Christians who form parties based on disenfranchising people.
When their dear leader Jesus said, sell all that you
have and give it to the poor. Don't even worry
about what you eat or what you're gonna drink tomorrow.
Don't worry about that. God will supply it to you.
Does not a sparrow fall to the ground apart from
God's knowledge? And how much more important than you are

(01:48:43):
than the sparrow?

Speaker 6 (01:48:44):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (01:48:45):
He says, don't worry about these things. Seek ye first
the Kingdom of Lord, and all these things will be
added to you. So like, if you're a Christian, you
shouldn't be spending one day worrying one minute worrying about
how much money you have, what you're going to do tomorrow.
You give that shit to the You take up your cross,
and you follow Jesus. If you're not doing that, you're
not a real Christian. You're only a Christian in name.

(01:49:05):
You're not a real Christian. And I would have said
that when I was still Christian as a pastor. If
you are in Christianity and you don't understand Jesus's call
to abandon the desire for worldly wealth and goods and
give them to people who don't, then you don't understand
Christianity one bit. That being said, Scottie our backup for
the day, So I have to get off my soapbox now, Scotti,

(01:49:28):
thank you so much for being with us.

Speaker 16 (01:49:30):
No, my pleasure, My pleasure, pleasure is all on this
side of the table.

Speaker 1 (01:49:35):
Share some of your thoughts with us on the on
the cause of day.

Speaker 16 (01:49:38):
Oh boy, you know I had I just have a
page full of thoughts here, but I know we're over,
so I'll just be brief. I want to thank all
Rich for that gold metal performance in mental gymnastics.

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
It was very impressive.

Speaker 16 (01:49:50):
But the one time that I did want to make
was on something Mike said kind of towards the beginning
of the show. You're saying something about would things be
better if it was an entirely secular world? And then Mike,
you slipped in or at least had a science literacy,
And I think that was an excellent point to bring up,
because it's not so much that we are against religion
per se. It's the fact that it's not rationally supported

(01:50:14):
and it doesn't align with reality, and so that's kind
of the crux there. And so Mike, I'm glad you
mentioned that. But yeah, other than that, great show, good
selection of callers, it's good important notice to callers in
the future if you want to make sure you get
on call earlier. Right, we had the calls were kind
of slow to come in. Then we had a bunch

(01:50:34):
at the end. So if you call in earlier, you're
more likely to get on. So keep that in mind.
But thanks both of your great show today.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
Well thank you, Scott, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:42):
And friends, make make sure if you haven't done, find
Mike's channel on YouTube and follow them on TikTok. Although
I got to be honest. Those people who are on
TikTok are already following Mike, but make sure you do
Mike Burgandy. He's a great friend in the community, so
we appreciate everyone being here. Will be again same time
next week. Make sure you don't miss our other shows

(01:51:03):
throughout the week. And Scott, thank you for backing us
up today. And uh friends, We'll do it all again
next week, same time, same place, Stay god free, light
wit tag to start opening, Stop questioning the bullshit everyone

(01:51:25):
around you, guys, shit sending up.

Speaker 7 (01:51:29):
Y'all, walcome down, made and Ellen Little David, I'm y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
Watch Talking Than Live Sunday's at one pm Central. Visit
tiny dot c c slash y t t H and
call into the show at five one two nine nine
one nine two four two, or connect to the show
online at tiny dot c c slash call THH

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