December 2, 2025 • 37 mins
Two of the most successful composers in the music industry join us on the show to talk about their latest projects and lot more! Tune in as Mark Batson and Chris Hanebutt join us on the show!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, y'all, this is Mark Vatson and this is Chris
Hannabut and you're listening to a grand slam of music, sports,
and entertainment. It's the award nominated Backstage Past Podcast with
Brandon Morell on KYBN ninety eight point one, your Bay
Area Broadcasting Network.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Stream the show anytime at the Sports.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Guys podcast dot com and on iHeartRadio podcast. You can
also stream at THHWN dot org and.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Welcome inside the Backstage Pass a busy day full of
shows and Turkey Day coming up around the corner if
you guys are having that great Turkey Day too. Happy
Thanksgiving to everybody out there too, all across our affiliates,
our stations, and everybody in podcast land on iHeartRadio podcast
and of course thch WN dot orgon powered by the
Sports Guys podcast dot com, and of course our affiliates
(00:48):
out there KYBN ninety eight point one, your Bay Area
Broadcasting Network. Brandon Morele here, and of course we do
a lot of different recording artists out there too. But
it's always good to give back to the songwriters, the
composer and everybody who does a little bit of everything
in the music business and to do that today here
on the backstage Pass powered by the Sports guyspodcast dot com,
(01:09):
please to welcome in big time composers out there too.
They've done it all in the feature film days too,
and of course a lot of different music cuts, worked
on a lot of records out there and album sold.
Mark Bats and Chris Hannah. But to the show guys,
what's going on?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Hey, Hey, good, good to be here. Thanks for having.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Us, Thanks for having us spreading you got it well, Mark,
let's kind of start right there too. I love the
fact is, you know, we can talk about the track
records all day too, but I want to get to
know how you guys have met on this. I mean, Mark,
you've done six Grammy Award winning albums too, and I
know you grew up kind of a classic of the
trained pianist and producer. I mean one hundred and thirty
two million albums sold. Your track record speaks for itself.
(01:47):
Chris has been a composer, of producer and a mixer
and who's done a lot of things. Talk about just
how you guys met to collaborate on these projects we're
gonna be talking about today.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
We have a mutual friend who's a singer and songwriter
named So, and she connected me and Chris. We kind
of hung out for years and worked on a bunch
of different projects, and maybe a couple of years back,
Chris came to me and said that if I wanted
to join him to work on Power Force. So we
(02:17):
decided to collaborate on that. It's been an awesome experience
with three years in and so making an awesome soundtrack,
which is going to be the first score soundtrack released
from the Power franchise because a lot of people think
the score is really exceptional. We continued on. We've also
(02:37):
been scoring movies. We scored two documentaries over the last
two years. One of them is The Alabama Solution, which
was an expose on Alabama prisons and some very corrupt
things that go on behind these stores. And the other
one was called One Person, One Vote, and it was
a documentary about explaining the electoral College and how the
(03:00):
electoral college came about and and and why maybe it
possibly is an outdated bottle for politics.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And uh.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
That kind of encompasses our how we meet, how we met,
and we just work on a bunch of different things together.
Chris is a very compliments what I do in a
in a great way. He's a genius of what he
does as a fantastic guitarist, fantastic songwriter and also fantastic engineer,
and that compliments what I do as a pianist.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
No, Chris, you talked about that too, is read somewhere.
We first moved to Los Angeles there a while back
in Joseph Sokora is a big time actor there too,
has done a lot of things out there for films
and things like that. Talk about that relationship too, and
getting into this to kind of build on power book
for this this four series.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I'm into it. It's fantastic.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Yeah, you did some you did research.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Yeah, So, Joseph.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
The funny thing is when I first moved to Los Angeles,
like twenty just so over twenty years ago, I went
and helped a guy, this guy Justin Rhodes, who's like
a really fantastic screenwriter and at the time he was
in school working on his like final project, and the
(04:20):
actor that was in his final school project that was
helping out was Joseph Secora. So Joseph was like one
of the first people that I met when I moved
to Los Angeles and we watched the Academy Awards together
that year, and you know, I mean he was just
like a young actor in a same way that I
was just moving to Los Angeles as like a young musician,
(04:41):
and I mean I knew nobody, and so it was
very full circle because I watched his career over those years,
him just you know, getting bigger and bigger parts. And
then it was really awesome for us to you know,
be able to the first show that at least that
I you know, I'd had a lot of cuts and
shows and cuts and movies, but I'd never had a
(05:04):
show that you know, it was fully ours, like where
it was like, Okay, this is our scoring project.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
And for it to be Joseph's first where you know,
it's like his show.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
You know, he's executive producer on it, he's like the
main star on it, it's very you know, there's a
big full circle moment for me.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You've both done a lot in your career, you know,
Mark I mentioned there too, just huge statistics out there
too looking back at it. I mean one hundred and
thirty two million albums sold as pianist, producer, things like that,
and you know, collaborating with such these great icons marks
such as Eminem and Beyonce and jay Z Alicia Keys.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
What are you most proud of? Mark?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Just in your career and the fact that to be
able to share this talent with other people that you
have and also collaborate with some of the biggest artists
you know nationwide.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I think what I'm most proud of is being able
to work with these really super creative, genius artists and
be able to help them with their visions. When I
first started out, I had a rap group with with
my brothers called Get Said VP, who was signed to
PolyGram to Polydor Records, and the record didn't do well.
It was a It was a really tough experience. And
(06:12):
then from that point on I moved more behind developing
and helping other artists so that they would not make
the same mistakes that I did. So that early in
my career that was working with Nda I Read was
signed to Motown on her first album, crafting the South
of Anthony Hamilton for his first album. These were artists
(06:33):
that did not necessarily fit into the machinery or the
music business machinery comfortable.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
They had their own unique and.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Distinct thing, and so I'm most proud of helping artists
like that be heard, you know, artists that don't really
fit in the box, artists that do different things. And
then also to be in the same room with talents
on the level of you know, eminem or Challenge on
the level we love Alisha Keys. We're talking to some
(07:02):
of the most prolific artists and most talented artists on
the planet Earth. So to be in the room with
them is a lot of pride, a lot of honor,
and I'm very thankful and grateful about it.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Mark, I didn't know that about you and your brother.
That's how I've never I never knew that. One thing
about you, Mark that I've just watched and that I
really admire about your work with the artists that you
work with, is.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
All of them are your friends. Like you, you make
these artists.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
That you know there's busy and bouncing from thing to thing,
but like you build relationships with these artists in a
way that sets you apart. Like you're, for lack of
a better term, your bedside manner. You know, you really
that on top of how awesome of a musician you are,
(08:00):
it's like that, right, that is what really separates you
in my opinion, is that right there, like you're the
love that you have for them and the love that
they have for you. That then you have these like
lifetime friendships with you know, with Dave and Dave Matthews
and all the I mean every other all the other
artists like they they like they love you and like, yeah,
(08:24):
I mean that is that is just from an outsider's perspective,
is the I think the most impressive thing to me
is the relationships that you that you build with the
people that you work with. I mean with ours, you know,
with yours and my relationship too, but just that you're
at at the heart of all of it.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
You are a relationship guy. For like, without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
That's pretty awesome. Chuse thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Again, it goes back to me wanting to nurture artists
and and get the best out of them, and that
make the same mistakes per se that that I made
early on when I got into the record business.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So I just kind of see.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
You know, people that need a hand at what they do,
and it could be somebody who's highly skilled and they
still need that support system. So I think part of
being a producer is not just being about being a
great musician or hearing the right notes. It's also kind
of being a therapist as well, and uh, and being
in position to supply supply emotional and spiritual support to
(09:32):
the artists that you're working with.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Yeah, I can voucher that support.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, there's Power Book Floor Force.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
You know, part of that Power franchise got more than
over one point six billion hours viewed globally. I mean,
you think back about this project. I'm getting into it,
you know right now with episodes and things like that,
and if people check out, they're streaming services out there too,
Chris talk about just you know, the the hours you
know viewed on something very interesting too. And of course
(10:02):
the composition is fantastic with it too. But I love
these because any of these documentaries that people get into,
just like for anything, could be an artist, could be
a series, anything like that. It's got to have the
information and you know, kind of like a good song,
it's got to have those hooks in it. And you
guys definitely have I think, really planted you know, the
hooks and people that keep them tuned into a series
like this.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Chris.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Yeah, we're very fortunate to be able to work on
a brand like Power. I mean, it's just like there's
like the same we always say Power never dies. It's
like it's like it's gonna you know, there's never a
time somebody's not watching it in the world. It's just
it's it's like the gift that keeps on giving. So
you know, to be able to put a sonic fingerprint
on something like that, and especially with Force because it's
(10:46):
the biggest it's just you know, action, there's so much
action in it.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
So it's really great practice.
Speaker 6 (10:54):
For us too, because it's kind of like just a
lot of different blockbusters thrown together. Right, It's like every
single every episode has the full its gunfights and explosions.
It's like, you know, and then and then the chill scene.
So we get to really stretch a lot, and and
it's great for us for as we continue to move
(11:17):
into doing bigger films, the more blockbuster vibe. So it's
it's it's been really a lot of fun and a
great learning experience too. This again, it was you know,
it was my first full show, so I've learned a
lot through the process.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, I love the other one too, Like I said,
looking back the HBO documentary, you talked about this a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Mark.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
We started there the Alabama Solution, which is now HB
HBO Max Critical Acclaim the Sundance Film Festival earlier this
year and now is nominated for five.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Critics Choice Awards.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It won.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Awesome.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Yeah, it won and it won.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Uh that's political political dot thementity.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, I've not seen that one yet. I've got to
dive into this one, Mark, how did this one come about?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Here?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
And also for you guys, I mean to get the
word back in this you know, ever changing tough industry
when it comes down to it, for composing to being
a recording artist working on any type of you know,
digital media projects. Getting back those Critics Choice Awards and
winning one had to be exciting.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I worked closely with a music supervisor named Sue Jacobs.
We've worked on a bunch of films together, like I Tanya, Whijuana, Oscar,
and also American Hustle, which was Best Picture at the
Golden Globes. So we've been collaborating on different projects and
she called me about this Alabama Solution, and so I
(12:46):
met with Andrew Jareki and Charlotte Kaufman who spent six
years working on this film, and the idea of the
film was that there were people who were incarcerated, many
were incarcerated, who had got cell phones inside and were
(13:07):
filming atrocities that take place that were on a Guantina
Mobey level of atrocities. And it also affirmed that slavery
still exists in America and that they were people who
were enslaved basically, who were working under those conditions, who
would be violent, who could be violently punished or killed
(13:31):
if they didn't follow these orders to a ti. So
they worked on it for six years, six difficult years
of gathering footage and interviews and experiencing some outrageous situations,
including or following the story of one particular correction officer
murdering one of the men in the facility. So they
(13:55):
kind of follow and tell that story. But also on
their site, the Alabama Solution, you see that the story
of these atrocious stories that they told in the movie
are just a type of iceberg of the thousands of
other cases that you can investigate on their page. So
I called Chris, you know, to come in and to
(14:18):
work with me on this. We make a great team
at scoring and there's a lot of beautiful, fantastic guitars
that helped to tell the story of that region.
Speaker 7 (14:32):
And that vibe, and we did a lot of music
for a lot of great music for it. It was
a very painful process so to have to meet in
the experience of real life experiences. But for myself, it's
one of up in the long run, I feel to
be the most important project.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
That I've coming together. Chris go ahead talk about that too.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Just really another special project too, and also trying like
you mentioned there too for this one available out a
stream on HBO Max for the Alabama Solution, your favorit
parts of really uh, you know, kind of exposing something
that really needed to be kind of brought to attention.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with Mark.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
I mean, it's the most important project that I've ever
been a part of. I mean, as musicians, it's like
it's very it's I feel like sometimes it's kind of rare,
or it's just an artist at all at anything to
you know, be a part of something that is so
much bigger than what you're than than just the work.
It's a legacy project, like I I feel like like
(15:30):
I was I mean, yeah, I mean, if if I
never worked on another project again, and I would and
and I got to say, at least I worked on
this project right here, I'd be good with that. Like
I I that it means that.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
Much to me.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Because it's rare to be able to be a part
of something that's meaning that meaningful.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yeah, I mean, the movies very heavy.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
I mean to see what the men indoor and to
see what they're families endure. And it's also incredibly inspiring
because there's a lot of heroes in this film, really brave,
really brave men and women that are just taking it
one day at a time and using nonviolence is as
their method to get the word out there. And the
(16:21):
only thing that they're asking for is a little bit
of transparency. I mean, you know, you can't there's you
could have journalists can go into a war zone and
film what's going on, but you know they can't go
in and there's no there's no transparency in our in
our criminal justice system in the United States, And I mean,
(16:42):
you know, there's a lot of people, there are lots
of people are getting murdered and disappeared and odean and
it's just it's really horrific that and we're paying for it,
so you know, it was and creatively it was a
really fun experience because it was challenging that the directors
(17:04):
had a very particular thing that they wanted and it's
because it's so emotional, you know, this is their baby.
We you know, it was it was difficult, and we
we really worked very hard hand in hand with them
to deliver exactly what they wanted without over selling the
emotion and staying understated. But then us still figuring out
(17:28):
our sonic textures and.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
You know, used lots of lots of guitars, piano, live streams, metal, percussion.
You know, we wanted it was very important for it
to kind of sound like a machine because like Andrew called,
he said, you know, it says the way that he
describes the Alabama Department of Corrections is that it's a
murder machine. And and it was very that was a
(17:55):
theme that we kept discussing. You know, it's like it
needs to sound like if we can make it sound
like a machine, like it's.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Constantly moving, that that that was you know, the goal
at the end of the day, and.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
I think we did that.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
I'm really happy with it and we'll be releasing that soundtrack.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
We're working on it now.
Speaker 6 (18:15):
The also have a soundtrack album for for Alabama Solution.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, definitely a call for that accountability and reform to
you can't wait to check that out too as well. Uh,
you guys can check out the Alabama Solution there too,
Mark Bats and Chris Hanna but joining us here on
the backstage pass. So you know, Mark, I want to
ask you about this one too, because it's just kind
of a question to throw out there too about how
the industry has has changed so much. You mentioned, you know,
you're working on six of those Grammy Award winning albums
(18:41):
too and and doing things being a producer. I love
the fact is and that there's pros and cons to
both of it. But h kind of a two parter here,
and we'll start with us and Mark the collaboration in
music today to see a lot of the artists, no
matter what genre of music kind of cross over. And
I do interview a lot more country artists here on
the program because there in the show is you know,
well known and Nashville, Tennessee, and we go there for
(19:01):
a couple of major events from you know, throughout the
years and things like that. But it's kind of cool
that to see that, you know, some of the artists
like Akon, you know crosses over now working with Gary
Lavax of Rascal Flats, and you see just different things
that are going. I want to ask you about the
crossover there in the collaboration that you're seeing with different
genres of music, Mark and kind of get your opinion
on that.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I think that that that's only for me personally, one
music I see there's one big continuum of ideas that
continue us the share off of each other and borrow
from each other. I think it's always good when people
culturally come together to share their ideas. I think it's
(19:45):
part of unifying. It has a very unifying quality. Music
brings people together in general, and these things can break boundaries.
There's a lot of boundaries that are Social media reach
a lot of unders. People get into their own worlds,
and then they have their echo chambers inside of their
world and and sometimes those worlds start to separate and
(20:09):
become smaller and smaller and more more more divisive, and
so there's a lot of separation that the social media stokes,
and it puts people on opposite size, and then they
argue and then the the abs itself. Whatever outrage is
out there, they use that outrage to keep people engaged.
(20:29):
So with that being out you know, in the world
so much right now, the idea that they could be
some you know, music, the spiritual force that could cross
those boundaries and bring people together. I think it's more
needed now uh than ever before. We need more country
wrap projects, we need more uh reggaep.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Projects, we need more.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
Different styles, more jazz meets jazz and classical artists coming together,
putting people on different cultures inside of venues together to
bring them into real life and a little bit off
of the phone, because if you live in the world
of your phone, you can think that you know that
everybody's angry at each other, that everybody hates each other,
and as soon as you go outside, you go wow,
(21:17):
you know, you go to a festival or something, they
go like, no, that's that's not real. And if the
music is a great force uh to bring people together
like that, and to also uh found the rat a
lot of the negativity that has been born in the
social media game.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, Chris, would you agree absolutely?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
Don't even really have much to add to that.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Yeah, I was actually watching the Cmawards of the Night too,
and I thought it was kind of cool because you see,
like you know, Big Extra Plug and Luke Holmbs you know,
collaborating with a song there too. I mean Big Extra
Plug is is now taken over and done. His thing
is producer, compon just songwriter, composer. He's done at all
in the industry too, and he's still keeping his name
you know, out there too. And I think the crossover
to gives it because I love that variety is kind
(22:06):
of like the spice of life. You know, we're all
on our phones and this digital age now, and that
leads me to my next question. And I'll start with
this one, Chris, like, how much AI has impacted you
know this now from the music industry and they keep saying, well,
it's going to take away from you know, the songwriter,
it's going to take away from the recording of the song.
I mean AI is around to stay whether we like
it or not. You know, we're coming up as we're
(22:27):
all using different pieces and and parts of it. I
mean chat GPT now, how technology has changed what you
guys do? And I guess kind of when you weigh
the pros and cons. Chris, what are kind of those
those pros and cons in the music industry for AI?
Because it's here to stay.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
Definitely, I'm glad that you brought this up. I have
a few things to talk about.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
Bluntly, there's not a whole lot more that can be
taken from songwriters in today's industry. I mean, it's it's
a very very very tough way to make a living.
I mean, you have to have the number one and smash,
you know, on a record. It's like getting a cut
on an album. Now you don't make anything off of
it as a songwriter. So it's already it's already very
(23:11):
very difficult. This last the article that came out a
couple of weeks ago, what was it last week or
week before where they were talking about the country band
that you know had a number one song on the
Billboard Digital download chart. I feel like Mark and I
were talking about this, and like, my thing about that
(23:33):
is it's not even a story about AI.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
It's actually to me a story of.
Speaker 6 (23:37):
How corrupt the the the the uh the list is
because I mean it's a downloadable like who downloads digital? Like,
you know, really who downloads digital anyways, everybody's streams, so
it's so manipulated that it's just a self feed.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
It's just for press, right like all the like.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
It's just a way of saying, okay, we'll buy I
think they said, I read that it could have been
as few as it's like six thousand downloads in a week,
so you know, they spend ten thousand dollars, they buy
the downloads, and now they got a number one Billboard
with an AI band, right, and then they just put
it in all the all the industry uh press and
(24:21):
then then it gets people to go to Spotify to
listen to it. And so it's really kind of an
indictment on how that part of the system works. More
than that is an you know, sad or exciting depending
on how you look at it, that an AI band
is number one on Billboard. I mean it's kind of
a farce. As for how we use AI personally, I
(24:46):
use it as a sounding board. I would say, like
I'll write a song, play the piano park, come up
with the demo with the melodies, come up with half
the lyrics, work out some of the production, upload it,
and then see what direction I'd like to take it
because you know it takes a long time to demo
out and that you know, if you go to try
(25:07):
different styles, it takes some time. So it's nice to
have it as that and back and forth and maybe
if you like some of what it does, you import that.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
But I always I replace everything. I replay it.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
Yeah, I prefer I like to replay everything or hire
musicians to replay stuff. And because it just it doesn't
do that, it's it's a great source of additional inspiration.
I think it's and it's fun. It's it definitely is
fun to play with. And I've had and I just
I've had too, Like I'm working on a commercial.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Spot right now, and it was in aishole.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
Like they I mean, they brought something that was demoed
out with AI and they were like, this needs to
be redone by humans.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
So it's it's a it's a weird world.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
It is too and people have to realize too. And
I'm all about, you know, the songwriters mark when I
look back at it too, because you're right, it's like
pennies on the dollar if that based on the number
of streams and things like that. But I'm all about
like the songwriters getting paid like you guys, you know,
coming up with the music. Because when I watch something,
whether it be these docuseries or things like that, or
something like a force out there to or you know,
one Person, one vote or in the Alabama solution, like
(26:23):
the music to me draws me into a composition, a composition,
or a docuseries or documentary or just a movie. Because
I mean I went and saw you know, the Wicked
one yesterday. My wife was like, let's go see it.
Let's go see, let's go. Well, I was like, man,
I'm just much into the music because I am the
dialogue in the movie. And I kind of feel like,
you know, the songwriters are just as important mark as
(26:44):
the person is the recording the song for the movie.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Definitely, the songwriters are very important. You know, this this
is a revolution, you know, a digital revolution taking place overall,
and so we, you know, as musicians, we can say,
you know, take a look and see how it's happening
to music. And the thing about it with with with
the music is that using digital computers to create what
(27:12):
humans do has been going on for quite some time.
This programs like fruity Loops or even the Ableton where
the computer, will you know, kick you unlimited drum loops
until you find things that you like, or in the
sense of fruity loops, you're just dragging computer made information
(27:32):
into files and making records. So people have been producing
records like that for quite some time now. The AI
is taking another giant step forward to you know, create
the entire song for people. For myself, the way I
use it is to expand on my demos. So there's
something you know, if I'm writing a song but I
(27:53):
want a female singer to sing it, I can write
my partner and I can upload it and just have
just just changed the vocal to a female singer, or
or any ideas that I may have.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It helps to implement them.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
And so, you know, for my students, I teach at
USC one day a week and I tell them, you know,
some of them go like, you know, I'm not really
into A. I don't want to use A I just
want to just do my music. And I say, you know,
just be aware of it because fourteen or thirteen or
fourteen year old who's just starting to make music today,
(28:29):
they're going to be using it to make their music.
And so, you know, five to six years from now.
Those when those people who started at thirteen become eighteen.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
They're the ones that people are going to be competing with.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
So you don't want to fall behind technically at any point.
You know, this started for me with Napster because when
Napster first came out, I was furious because this is
a time period where we're making you know, an album
has thirteen, twelve thirteen songs on it, and it costs
twelve or thirteen dollars, So it's costing one dollar to
(29:06):
listen to to have access to a person song, and
so everybody had to pay that dollar. So if a
million people wanted to listen to that song or have
that song in their possession, then that would be a
million dollars for people to split. And this is the
interesting that I came into. So here we got Napster,
They're like, okay, now it's free. You know, you can
(29:27):
get your music files, just download whatever album. So I
went to organize artists and talked to artists and producers
about protesting this thing. It started out it was a
little bit of heat, but that heat fizzled out pretty
quickly and it was left down to myself and a
lawyer who was a friend of mine who told me
at that point said, you know, Mark, I'm gonna tell
(29:48):
you about technology. You know, technology is like a steamroller.
Either you're driving it or it's running over you. And
from that point on I said, okay, you know, gave
up and I would you know, left the fight against
napster and just joined into the to the modern age.
And so for me, whenever whenever something comes out new
(30:11):
or I just see, okay, how can it be used,
how can it be utilized? How can it be utilized ethically?
I think in the case of the streaming services, it's
a dangerous mechanism because they have the access to the
most powerful playlist. So Spotify, I could first say, have
a playlist, put Beyonce a song on there, put a
Drake song on there, put a tail Swift song on
(30:33):
their playlist, and then add two of their own AI
songs onto that playlist, and then people are just going
to be listening and streaming no songs. But then once
that happens, if Spotify owns the AI artists, then they
don't have to pay anybody, you know, for for that,
and then that could grow. So what happens when it's
(30:53):
five AI artists on the playlist and five real artists,
and and then Spotify is just generating half of the
fun to go right back into their pockets and not
into the hands of working bard as a human beings.
So there has to be some ethical questions answered. I
think what I'm seeing in the future is there's going
to be places that says there's no AI allowed in
(31:15):
this place. So there'll be music places you can go to.
What they'll say, you can't upload the AI song here,
you can.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Only have it here. But that day hasn't come yet.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So now we're in the wild wild West power of AI.
And so again I appreciate that now people who never
got a chance to create in the past now have
the opportunity to create. I can appreciate that, but I
also see the dangers more artists and more songwriters be
(31:45):
squeezed out of the preference.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, they really summed it up there too, and like
I said, it's definitely it's here to stay, and like
so we use it for some aspects of being my
show too at the same time, but I kind of
draw the line with some things that you want to
do yourself in the original creativity of it, and then
of course the can back at it too. That can
help you kind of you know, write some things out there,
compose some things that you know, make sure it has
(32:08):
a good frame of body work too. But as far
as like machines and robots trying to sit there and
do the work for me, I'd rather just put my hands,
get it dirty, and like you said, you guys have
done throughout your career, be able to do as much
as you can yourself, and just kind of use it
as as basically kind of as a scaffold there too.
At the same time, so I think it's definitely here
to stay. I want to ask you, Chris about you know,
like I said, with the holidays coming up. I know Mark,
(32:30):
we were talking about this a little bit off the earlier,
just kind of looking forward to like the downtime, and
you guys are so busy with all these great projects
that are going on right now too. What are you
most looking forward to, Chris, for the for the holidays
as it spending time with family.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
Before I get to that, I just have one more
thing about the AI stuff. The one really great thing
that I'm noticing that AI does do though as I
work with other artists and work with other musicians as
this happen is it allows musicianship to shine, like like
a music being able to pick up an instrument and
(33:04):
play and practice your instrument and be great at it
and be able to do it in a room with
other people. Now it's like, oh, it's even better, you
like even more, you know, super unicorn now right because
people are just like, it's a crutch.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
If you use it as a crutch, you know, it's
a problem.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
And so that part of it is really great because
like it just allows.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
The crean, you know, the crean to rise, like if you.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Can play, you're I feel like it's a It's still
it's a huge asset to have, and AI only makes
it more glaring to be able to.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
I mean, I just I've already seen it.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
I see I the sound of it, even the sound
of what the AI pumps out. It's like, oh, it's already,
I can hear it, you know what I mean. It's
like it I know it's just getting started in a
lot of but it already. To me when I hear
it feels dated and I don't I don't understand. That's
the best way that I can put it. Even when
(34:06):
it pumps out and I love what it pumps out,
I still feel like it's dated. I don't I don't
know why that is. I'm in the minority on that probably,
but anyways, Okay, So when I'm looking most forward to
down time, I'm looking forward to relaxing. My wife and
I kind of already started some of that relaxing over
(34:27):
the weekend.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
We started our.
Speaker 6 (34:30):
Holidays early, and I'm just I'm looking forward to relaxing.
I'm going to be playing a lot just for fun,
Like I'm going to be practicing a lot, and and
and just and while we in the studio every day
during the holidays, but just for me, I just have
some songs that I'm working on and and some other
(34:52):
non music music related projects that like, I really I
want to sit down and focus on and and have
fun with. And I'm not we're not traveling this year.
A lot of times we travel, but we're staying home
and I'm going to just eat and relax and enjoy
each other's company, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I think that's always a fun time mark for you.
And we were telling before the show a little bit
of that R and R because we work so much
we get carried away. It's hard to find that balance
between work life and family life.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Right, Yes, indeed, yes, indeed, that's why I have of
It's always good, a good opportunity to catch up with
family and and just put you know, get in touch
with two roots and the things that are the most
important in life. And I'm always look forward to that time.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
I'll tell you what these are fantastic projects. One that
I'm already into a couple of more I got to
get into. It's Power Book four Force, part of the
Power franchise, got over one point six billion hours viewed
globally there on Stars of course, the LA Law reboot pilot,
the political documentary One Person, One Vote in hbos the
Alabama Solution out there too, which premiered to critical acclaim
(35:58):
there too at that Sundawn Film Festival. You guys can
check out all these great projects out there too, across
your streaming platforms. Always great to catch up with two
of the best, Mark Bats and Chris Handleb out there.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Appreciate you being with us, and happy holidays to you
and your family, and looking forward to many more great
things happening in the careers that you guys, already have
out there Hall of Fame careers and mean more great
things coming.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
We appreciate you so much.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
Thanks Brandon A, thank you so much, Brandon.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It was great to be on that.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, so you got it, Chris Hannah, but Mark Batson
out there too, and of course more great artists coming
up over the next few weeks here too. Happy holidays
to everybody out there too. From the Backstage Past KYB
in ninety eight point one, your Bay Area broadcasting network
TCHWN dot orgonpowered by the Sports Guys Podcast dot com,
now top search on iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
We'll see you soon, God blessed, take care.
Speaker 9 (36:46):
Hey all, this is Chanler Marie and you're listening to
the award nominated Backstage Pass on KYBN ninety eight point one,
your Bay Area broadcasting network. You can listen to on
THCHWN dot org and on iHeartRadio podcasts in any time.
I'm at the Sports Guys Podcast dot com.
Hey, y'all, this is Mark Vatson and this is Chris
Hannabut and you're listening to a grand slam of music, sports,
and entertainment. It's the award nominated Backstage Past Podcast with
Brandon Morell on KYBN ninety eight point one, your Bay
Area Broadcasting Network.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Stream the show anytime at the Sports.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Guys podcast dot com and on iHeartRadio podcast. You can
also stream at THHWN dot org and.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Welcome inside the Backstage Pass a busy day full of
shows and Turkey Day coming up around the corner if
you guys are having that great Turkey Day too. Happy
Thanksgiving to everybody out there too, all across our affiliates,
our stations, and everybody in podcast land on iHeartRadio podcast
and of course thch WN dot orgon powered by the
Sports Guys podcast dot com, and of course our affiliates
(00:48):
out there KYBN ninety eight point one, your Bay Area
Broadcasting Network. Brandon Morele here, and of course we do
a lot of different recording artists out there too. But
it's always good to give back to the songwriters, the
composer and everybody who does a little bit of everything
in the music business and to do that today here
on the backstage Pass powered by the Sports guyspodcast dot com,
(01:09):
please to welcome in big time composers out there too.
They've done it all in the feature film days too,
and of course a lot of different music cuts, worked
on a lot of records out there and album sold.
Mark Bats and Chris Hannah. But to the show guys,
what's going on?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Hey, Hey, good, good to be here. Thanks for having.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Us, Thanks for having us spreading you got it well, Mark,
let's kind of start right there too. I love the
fact is, you know, we can talk about the track
records all day too, but I want to get to
know how you guys have met on this. I mean, Mark,
you've done six Grammy Award winning albums too, and I
know you grew up kind of a classic of the
trained pianist and producer. I mean one hundred and thirty
two million albums sold. Your track record speaks for itself.
(01:47):
Chris has been a composer, of producer and a mixer
and who's done a lot of things. Talk about just
how you guys met to collaborate on these projects we're
gonna be talking about today.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
We have a mutual friend who's a singer and songwriter
named So, and she connected me and Chris. We kind
of hung out for years and worked on a bunch
of different projects, and maybe a couple of years back,
Chris came to me and said that if I wanted
to join him to work on Power Force. So we
(02:17):
decided to collaborate on that. It's been an awesome experience
with three years in and so making an awesome soundtrack,
which is going to be the first score soundtrack released
from the Power franchise because a lot of people think
the score is really exceptional. We continued on. We've also
(02:37):
been scoring movies. We scored two documentaries over the last
two years. One of them is The Alabama Solution, which
was an expose on Alabama prisons and some very corrupt
things that go on behind these stores. And the other
one was called One Person, One Vote, and it was
a documentary about explaining the electoral College and how the
(03:00):
electoral college came about and and and why maybe it
possibly is an outdated bottle for politics.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And uh.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
That kind of encompasses our how we meet, how we met,
and we just work on a bunch of different things together.
Chris is a very compliments what I do in a
in a great way. He's a genius of what he
does as a fantastic guitarist, fantastic songwriter and also fantastic engineer,
and that compliments what I do as a pianist.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
No, Chris, you talked about that too, is read somewhere.
We first moved to Los Angeles there a while back
in Joseph Sokora is a big time actor there too,
has done a lot of things out there for films
and things like that. Talk about that relationship too, and
getting into this to kind of build on power book
for this this four series.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I'm into it. It's fantastic.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Yeah, you did some you did research.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Yeah, So, Joseph.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
The funny thing is when I first moved to Los Angeles,
like twenty just so over twenty years ago, I went
and helped a guy, this guy Justin Rhodes, who's like
a really fantastic screenwriter and at the time he was
in school working on his like final project, and the
(04:20):
actor that was in his final school project that was
helping out was Joseph Secora. So Joseph was like one
of the first people that I met when I moved
to Los Angeles and we watched the Academy Awards together
that year, and you know, I mean he was just
like a young actor in a same way that I
was just moving to Los Angeles as like a young musician,
(04:41):
and I mean I knew nobody, and so it was
very full circle because I watched his career over those years,
him just you know, getting bigger and bigger parts. And
then it was really awesome for us to you know,
be able to the first show that at least that
I you know, I'd had a lot of cuts and
shows and cuts and movies, but I'd never had a
(05:04):
show that you know, it was fully ours, like where
it was like, Okay, this is our scoring project.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
And for it to be Joseph's first where you know,
it's like his show.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
You know, he's executive producer on it, he's like the
main star on it, it's very you know, there's a
big full circle moment for me.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You've both done a lot in your career, you know,
Mark I mentioned there too, just huge statistics out there
too looking back at it. I mean one hundred and
thirty two million albums sold as pianist, producer, things like that,
and you know, collaborating with such these great icons marks
such as Eminem and Beyonce and jay Z Alicia Keys.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
What are you most proud of? Mark?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Just in your career and the fact that to be
able to share this talent with other people that you
have and also collaborate with some of the biggest artists
you know nationwide.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I think what I'm most proud of is being able
to work with these really super creative, genius artists and
be able to help them with their visions. When I
first started out, I had a rap group with with
my brothers called Get Said VP, who was signed to
PolyGram to Polydor Records, and the record didn't do well.
It was a It was a really tough experience. And
(06:12):
then from that point on I moved more behind developing
and helping other artists so that they would not make
the same mistakes that I did. So that early in
my career that was working with Nda I Read was
signed to Motown on her first album, crafting the South
of Anthony Hamilton for his first album. These were artists
(06:33):
that did not necessarily fit into the machinery or the
music business machinery comfortable.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
They had their own unique and.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Distinct thing, and so I'm most proud of helping artists
like that be heard, you know, artists that don't really
fit in the box, artists that do different things. And
then also to be in the same room with talents
on the level of you know, eminem or Challenge on
the level we love Alisha Keys. We're talking to some
(07:02):
of the most prolific artists and most talented artists on
the planet Earth. So to be in the room with
them is a lot of pride, a lot of honor,
and I'm very thankful and grateful about it.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Mark, I didn't know that about you and your brother.
That's how I've never I never knew that. One thing
about you, Mark that I've just watched and that I
really admire about your work with the artists that you
work with, is.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
All of them are your friends. Like you, you make
these artists.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
That you know there's busy and bouncing from thing to thing,
but like you build relationships with these artists in a
way that sets you apart. Like you're, for lack of
a better term, your bedside manner. You know, you really
that on top of how awesome of a musician you are,
(08:00):
it's like that, right, that is what really separates you
in my opinion, is that right there, like you're the
love that you have for them and the love that
they have for you. That then you have these like
lifetime friendships with you know, with Dave and Dave Matthews
and all the I mean every other all the other
artists like they they like they love you and like, yeah,
(08:24):
I mean that is that is just from an outsider's perspective,
is the I think the most impressive thing to me
is the relationships that you that you build with the
people that you work with. I mean with ours, you know,
with yours and my relationship too, but just that you're
at at the heart of all of it.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
You are a relationship guy. For like, without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
That's pretty awesome. Chuse thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Again, it goes back to me wanting to nurture artists
and and get the best out of them, and that
make the same mistakes per se that that I made
early on when I got into the record business.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So I just kind of see.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
You know, people that need a hand at what they do,
and it could be somebody who's highly skilled and they
still need that support system. So I think part of
being a producer is not just being about being a
great musician or hearing the right notes. It's also kind
of being a therapist as well, and uh, and being
in position to supply supply emotional and spiritual support to
(09:32):
the artists that you're working with.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Yeah, I can voucher that support.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, there's Power Book Floor Force.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
You know, part of that Power franchise got more than
over one point six billion hours viewed globally. I mean,
you think back about this project. I'm getting into it,
you know right now with episodes and things like that,
and if people check out, they're streaming services out there too,
Chris talk about just you know, the the hours you
know viewed on something very interesting too. And of course
(10:02):
the composition is fantastic with it too. But I love
these because any of these documentaries that people get into,
just like for anything, could be an artist, could be
a series, anything like that. It's got to have the
information and you know, kind of like a good song,
it's got to have those hooks in it. And you
guys definitely have I think, really planted you know, the
hooks and people that keep them tuned into a series
like this.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Chris.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Yeah, we're very fortunate to be able to work on
a brand like Power. I mean, it's just like there's
like the same we always say Power never dies. It's
like it's like it's gonna you know, there's never a
time somebody's not watching it in the world. It's just
it's it's like the gift that keeps on giving. So
you know, to be able to put a sonic fingerprint
on something like that, and especially with Force because it's
(10:46):
the biggest it's just you know, action, there's so much
action in it.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
So it's really great practice.
Speaker 6 (10:54):
For us too, because it's kind of like just a
lot of different blockbusters thrown together. Right, It's like every
single every episode has the full its gunfights and explosions.
It's like, you know, and then and then the chill scene.
So we get to really stretch a lot, and and
it's great for us for as we continue to move
(11:17):
into doing bigger films, the more blockbuster vibe. So it's
it's it's been really a lot of fun and a
great learning experience too. This again, it was you know,
it was my first full show, so I've learned a
lot through the process.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, I love the other one too, Like I said,
looking back the HBO documentary, you talked about this a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Mark.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
We started there the Alabama Solution, which is now HB
HBO Max Critical Acclaim the Sundance Film Festival earlier this
year and now is nominated for five.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Critics Choice Awards.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It won.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Awesome.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Yeah, it won and it won.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Uh that's political political dot thementity.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, I've not seen that one yet. I've got to
dive into this one, Mark, how did this one come about?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Here?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
And also for you guys, I mean to get the
word back in this you know, ever changing tough industry
when it comes down to it, for composing to being
a recording artist working on any type of you know,
digital media projects. Getting back those Critics Choice Awards and
winning one had to be exciting.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I worked closely with a music supervisor named Sue Jacobs.
We've worked on a bunch of films together, like I Tanya, Whijuana, Oscar,
and also American Hustle, which was Best Picture at the
Golden Globes. So we've been collaborating on different projects and
she called me about this Alabama Solution, and so I
(12:46):
met with Andrew Jareki and Charlotte Kaufman who spent six
years working on this film, and the idea of the
film was that there were people who were incarcerated, many
were incarcerated, who had got cell phones inside and were
(13:07):
filming atrocities that take place that were on a Guantina
Mobey level of atrocities. And it also affirmed that slavery
still exists in America and that they were people who
were enslaved basically, who were working under those conditions, who
would be violent, who could be violently punished or killed
(13:31):
if they didn't follow these orders to a ti. So
they worked on it for six years, six difficult years
of gathering footage and interviews and experiencing some outrageous situations,
including or following the story of one particular correction officer
murdering one of the men in the facility. So they
(13:55):
kind of follow and tell that story. But also on
their site, the Alabama Solution, you see that the story
of these atrocious stories that they told in the movie
are just a type of iceberg of the thousands of
other cases that you can investigate on their page. So
I called Chris, you know, to come in and to
(14:18):
work with me on this. We make a great team
at scoring and there's a lot of beautiful, fantastic guitars
that helped to tell the story of that region.
Speaker 7 (14:32):
And that vibe, and we did a lot of music
for a lot of great music for it. It was
a very painful process so to have to meet in
the experience of real life experiences. But for myself, it's
one of up in the long run, I feel to
be the most important project.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
That I've coming together. Chris go ahead talk about that too.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Just really another special project too, and also trying like
you mentioned there too for this one available out a
stream on HBO Max for the Alabama Solution, your favorit
parts of really uh, you know, kind of exposing something
that really needed to be kind of brought to attention.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with Mark.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
I mean, it's the most important project that I've ever
been a part of. I mean, as musicians, it's like
it's very it's I feel like sometimes it's kind of rare,
or it's just an artist at all at anything to
you know, be a part of something that is so
much bigger than what you're than than just the work.
It's a legacy project, like I I feel like like
(15:30):
I was I mean, yeah, I mean, if if I
never worked on another project again, and I would and
and I got to say, at least I worked on
this project right here, I'd be good with that. Like
I I that it means that.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
Much to me.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Because it's rare to be able to be a part
of something that's meaning that meaningful.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yeah, I mean, the movies very heavy.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
I mean to see what the men indoor and to
see what they're families endure. And it's also incredibly inspiring
because there's a lot of heroes in this film, really brave,
really brave men and women that are just taking it
one day at a time and using nonviolence is as
their method to get the word out there. And the
(16:21):
only thing that they're asking for is a little bit
of transparency. I mean, you know, you can't there's you
could have journalists can go into a war zone and
film what's going on, but you know they can't go
in and there's no there's no transparency in our in
our criminal justice system in the United States, And I mean,
(16:42):
you know, there's a lot of people, there are lots
of people are getting murdered and disappeared and odean and
it's just it's really horrific that and we're paying for it,
so you know, it was and creatively it was a
really fun experience because it was challenging that the directors
(17:04):
had a very particular thing that they wanted and it's
because it's so emotional, you know, this is their baby.
We you know, it was it was difficult, and we
we really worked very hard hand in hand with them
to deliver exactly what they wanted without over selling the
emotion and staying understated. But then us still figuring out
(17:28):
our sonic textures and.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
You know, used lots of lots of guitars, piano, live streams, metal, percussion.
You know, we wanted it was very important for it
to kind of sound like a machine because like Andrew called,
he said, you know, it says the way that he
describes the Alabama Department of Corrections is that it's a
murder machine. And and it was very that was a
(17:55):
theme that we kept discussing. You know, it's like it
needs to sound like if we can make it sound
like a machine, like it's.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Constantly moving, that that that was you know, the goal
at the end of the day, and.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
I think we did that.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
I'm really happy with it and we'll be releasing that soundtrack.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
We're working on it now.
Speaker 6 (18:15):
The also have a soundtrack album for for Alabama Solution.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, definitely a call for that accountability and reform to
you can't wait to check that out too as well. Uh,
you guys can check out the Alabama Solution there too,
Mark Bats and Chris Hanna but joining us here on
the backstage pass. So you know, Mark, I want to
ask you about this one too, because it's just kind
of a question to throw out there too about how
the industry has has changed so much. You mentioned, you know,
you're working on six of those Grammy Award winning albums
(18:41):
too and and doing things being a producer. I love
the fact is and that there's pros and cons to
both of it. But h kind of a two parter here,
and we'll start with us and Mark the collaboration in
music today to see a lot of the artists, no
matter what genre of music kind of cross over. And
I do interview a lot more country artists here on
the program because there in the show is you know,
well known and Nashville, Tennessee, and we go there for
(19:01):
a couple of major events from you know, throughout the
years and things like that. But it's kind of cool
that to see that, you know, some of the artists
like Akon, you know crosses over now working with Gary
Lavax of Rascal Flats, and you see just different things
that are going. I want to ask you about the
crossover there in the collaboration that you're seeing with different
genres of music, Mark and kind of get your opinion
on that.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I think that that that's only for me personally, one
music I see there's one big continuum of ideas that
continue us the share off of each other and borrow
from each other. I think it's always good when people
culturally come together to share their ideas. I think it's
(19:45):
part of unifying. It has a very unifying quality. Music
brings people together in general, and these things can break boundaries.
There's a lot of boundaries that are Social media reach
a lot of unders. People get into their own worlds,
and then they have their echo chambers inside of their
world and and sometimes those worlds start to separate and
(20:09):
become smaller and smaller and more more more divisive, and
so there's a lot of separation that the social media stokes,
and it puts people on opposite size, and then they
argue and then the the abs itself. Whatever outrage is
out there, they use that outrage to keep people engaged.
(20:29):
So with that being out you know, in the world
so much right now, the idea that they could be
some you know, music, the spiritual force that could cross
those boundaries and bring people together. I think it's more
needed now uh than ever before. We need more country
wrap projects, we need more uh reggaep.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Projects, we need more.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
Different styles, more jazz meets jazz and classical artists coming together,
putting people on different cultures inside of venues together to
bring them into real life and a little bit off
of the phone, because if you live in the world
of your phone, you can think that you know that
everybody's angry at each other, that everybody hates each other,
and as soon as you go outside, you go wow,
(21:17):
you know, you go to a festival or something, they
go like, no, that's that's not real. And if the
music is a great force uh to bring people together
like that, and to also uh found the rat a
lot of the negativity that has been born in the
social media game.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, Chris, would you agree absolutely?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
Don't even really have much to add to that.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Yeah, I was actually watching the Cmawards of the Night too,
and I thought it was kind of cool because you see,
like you know, Big Extra Plug and Luke Holmbs you know,
collaborating with a song there too. I mean Big Extra
Plug is is now taken over and done. His thing
is producer, compon just songwriter, composer. He's done at all
in the industry too, and he's still keeping his name
you know, out there too. And I think the crossover
to gives it because I love that variety is kind
(22:06):
of like the spice of life. You know, we're all
on our phones and this digital age now, and that
leads me to my next question. And I'll start with
this one, Chris, like, how much AI has impacted you
know this now from the music industry and they keep saying, well,
it's going to take away from you know, the songwriter,
it's going to take away from the recording of the song.
I mean AI is around to stay whether we like
it or not. You know, we're coming up as we're
(22:27):
all using different pieces and and parts of it. I
mean chat GPT now, how technology has changed what you
guys do? And I guess kind of when you weigh
the pros and cons. Chris, what are kind of those
those pros and cons in the music industry for AI?
Because it's here to stay.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
Definitely, I'm glad that you brought this up. I have
a few things to talk about.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
Bluntly, there's not a whole lot more that can be
taken from songwriters in today's industry. I mean, it's it's
a very very very tough way to make a living.
I mean, you have to have the number one and smash,
you know, on a record. It's like getting a cut
on an album. Now you don't make anything off of
it as a songwriter. So it's already it's already very
(23:11):
very difficult. This last the article that came out a
couple of weeks ago, what was it last week or
week before where they were talking about the country band
that you know had a number one song on the
Billboard Digital download chart. I feel like Mark and I
were talking about this, and like, my thing about that
(23:33):
is it's not even a story about AI.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
It's actually to me a story of.
Speaker 6 (23:37):
How corrupt the the the the uh the list is
because I mean it's a downloadable like who downloads digital? Like,
you know, really who downloads digital anyways, everybody's streams, so
it's so manipulated that it's just a self feed.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
It's just for press, right like all the like.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
It's just a way of saying, okay, we'll buy I
think they said, I read that it could have been
as few as it's like six thousand downloads in a week,
so you know, they spend ten thousand dollars, they buy
the downloads, and now they got a number one Billboard
with an AI band, right, and then they just put
it in all the all the industry uh press and
(24:21):
then then it gets people to go to Spotify to
listen to it. And so it's really kind of an
indictment on how that part of the system works. More
than that is an you know, sad or exciting depending
on how you look at it, that an AI band
is number one on Billboard. I mean it's kind of
a farce. As for how we use AI personally, I
(24:46):
use it as a sounding board. I would say, like
I'll write a song, play the piano park, come up
with the demo with the melodies, come up with half
the lyrics, work out some of the production, upload it,
and then see what direction I'd like to take it
because you know it takes a long time to demo
out and that you know, if you go to try
(25:07):
different styles, it takes some time. So it's nice to
have it as that and back and forth and maybe
if you like some of what it does, you import that.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
But I always I replace everything. I replay it.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
Yeah, I prefer I like to replay everything or hire
musicians to replay stuff. And because it just it doesn't
do that, it's it's a great source of additional inspiration.
I think it's and it's fun. It's it definitely is
fun to play with. And I've had and I just
I've had too, Like I'm working on a commercial.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Spot right now, and it was in aishole.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
Like they I mean, they brought something that was demoed
out with AI and they were like, this needs to
be redone by humans.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
So it's it's a it's a weird world.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
It is too and people have to realize too. And
I'm all about, you know, the songwriters mark when I
look back at it too, because you're right, it's like
pennies on the dollar if that based on the number
of streams and things like that. But I'm all about
like the songwriters getting paid like you guys, you know,
coming up with the music. Because when I watch something,
whether it be these docuseries or things like that, or
something like a force out there to or you know,
one Person, one vote or in the Alabama solution, like
(26:23):
the music to me draws me into a composition, a composition,
or a docuseries or documentary or just a movie. Because
I mean I went and saw you know, the Wicked
one yesterday. My wife was like, let's go see it.
Let's go see, let's go. Well, I was like, man,
I'm just much into the music because I am the
dialogue in the movie. And I kind of feel like,
you know, the songwriters are just as important mark as
(26:44):
the person is the recording the song for the movie.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Definitely, the songwriters are very important. You know, this this
is a revolution, you know, a digital revolution taking place overall,
and so we, you know, as musicians, we can say,
you know, take a look and see how it's happening
to music. And the thing about it with with with
the music is that using digital computers to create what
(27:12):
humans do has been going on for quite some time.
This programs like fruity Loops or even the Ableton where
the computer, will you know, kick you unlimited drum loops
until you find things that you like, or in the
sense of fruity loops, you're just dragging computer made information
(27:32):
into files and making records. So people have been producing
records like that for quite some time now. The AI
is taking another giant step forward to you know, create
the entire song for people. For myself, the way I
use it is to expand on my demos. So there's
something you know, if I'm writing a song but I
(27:53):
want a female singer to sing it, I can write
my partner and I can upload it and just have
just just changed the vocal to a female singer, or
or any ideas that I may have.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It helps to implement them.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
And so, you know, for my students, I teach at
USC one day a week and I tell them, you know,
some of them go like, you know, I'm not really
into A. I don't want to use A I just
want to just do my music. And I say, you know,
just be aware of it because fourteen or thirteen or
fourteen year old who's just starting to make music today,
(28:29):
they're going to be using it to make their music.
And so, you know, five to six years from now.
Those when those people who started at thirteen become eighteen.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
They're the ones that people are going to be competing with.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
So you don't want to fall behind technically at any point.
You know, this started for me with Napster because when
Napster first came out, I was furious because this is
a time period where we're making you know, an album
has thirteen, twelve thirteen songs on it, and it costs
twelve or thirteen dollars, So it's costing one dollar to
(29:06):
listen to to have access to a person song, and
so everybody had to pay that dollar. So if a
million people wanted to listen to that song or have
that song in their possession, then that would be a
million dollars for people to split. And this is the
interesting that I came into. So here we got Napster,
They're like, okay, now it's free. You know, you can
(29:27):
get your music files, just download whatever album. So I
went to organize artists and talked to artists and producers
about protesting this thing. It started out it was a
little bit of heat, but that heat fizzled out pretty
quickly and it was left down to myself and a
lawyer who was a friend of mine who told me
at that point said, you know, Mark, I'm gonna tell
(29:48):
you about technology. You know, technology is like a steamroller.
Either you're driving it or it's running over you. And
from that point on I said, okay, you know, gave
up and I would you know, left the fight against
napster and just joined into the to the modern age.
And so for me, whenever whenever something comes out new
(30:11):
or I just see, okay, how can it be used,
how can it be utilized? How can it be utilized ethically?
I think in the case of the streaming services, it's
a dangerous mechanism because they have the access to the
most powerful playlist. So Spotify, I could first say, have
a playlist, put Beyonce a song on there, put a
Drake song on there, put a tail Swift song on
(30:33):
their playlist, and then add two of their own AI
songs onto that playlist, and then people are just going
to be listening and streaming no songs. But then once
that happens, if Spotify owns the AI artists, then they
don't have to pay anybody, you know, for for that,
and then that could grow. So what happens when it's
(30:53):
five AI artists on the playlist and five real artists,
and and then Spotify is just generating half of the
fun to go right back into their pockets and not
into the hands of working bard as a human beings.
So there has to be some ethical questions answered. I
think what I'm seeing in the future is there's going
to be places that says there's no AI allowed in
(31:15):
this place. So there'll be music places you can go to.
What they'll say, you can't upload the AI song here,
you can.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Only have it here. But that day hasn't come yet.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So now we're in the wild wild West power of AI.
And so again I appreciate that now people who never
got a chance to create in the past now have
the opportunity to create. I can appreciate that, but I
also see the dangers more artists and more songwriters be
(31:45):
squeezed out of the preference.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, they really summed it up there too, and like
I said, it's definitely it's here to stay, and like
so we use it for some aspects of being my
show too at the same time, but I kind of
draw the line with some things that you want to
do yourself in the original creativity of it, and then
of course the can back at it too. That can
help you kind of you know, write some things out there,
compose some things that you know, make sure it has
(32:08):
a good frame of body work too. But as far
as like machines and robots trying to sit there and
do the work for me, I'd rather just put my hands,
get it dirty, and like you said, you guys have
done throughout your career, be able to do as much
as you can yourself, and just kind of use it
as as basically kind of as a scaffold there too.
At the same time, so I think it's definitely here
to stay. I want to ask you, Chris about you know,
like I said, with the holidays coming up. I know Mark,
(32:30):
we were talking about this a little bit off the earlier,
just kind of looking forward to like the downtime, and
you guys are so busy with all these great projects
that are going on right now too. What are you
most looking forward to, Chris, for the for the holidays
as it spending time with family.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
Before I get to that, I just have one more
thing about the AI stuff. The one really great thing
that I'm noticing that AI does do though as I
work with other artists and work with other musicians as
this happen is it allows musicianship to shine, like like
a music being able to pick up an instrument and
(33:04):
play and practice your instrument and be great at it
and be able to do it in a room with
other people. Now it's like, oh, it's even better, you
like even more, you know, super unicorn now right because
people are just like, it's a crutch.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
If you use it as a crutch, you know, it's
a problem.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
And so that part of it is really great because
like it just allows.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
The crean, you know, the crean to rise, like if you.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Can play, you're I feel like it's a It's still
it's a huge asset to have, and AI only makes
it more glaring to be able to.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
I mean, I just I've already seen it.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
I see I the sound of it, even the sound
of what the AI pumps out. It's like, oh, it's already,
I can hear it, you know what I mean. It's
like it I know it's just getting started in a
lot of but it already. To me when I hear
it feels dated and I don't I don't understand. That's
the best way that I can put it. Even when
(34:06):
it pumps out and I love what it pumps out,
I still feel like it's dated. I don't I don't
know why that is. I'm in the minority on that probably,
but anyways, Okay, So when I'm looking most forward to
down time, I'm looking forward to relaxing. My wife and
I kind of already started some of that relaxing over
(34:27):
the weekend.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
We started our.
Speaker 6 (34:30):
Holidays early, and I'm just I'm looking forward to relaxing.
I'm going to be playing a lot just for fun,
Like I'm going to be practicing a lot, and and
and just and while we in the studio every day
during the holidays, but just for me, I just have
some songs that I'm working on and and some other
(34:52):
non music music related projects that like, I really I
want to sit down and focus on and and have
fun with. And I'm not we're not traveling this year.
A lot of times we travel, but we're staying home
and I'm going to just eat and relax and enjoy
each other's company, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I think that's always a fun time mark for you.
And we were telling before the show a little bit
of that R and R because we work so much
we get carried away. It's hard to find that balance
between work life and family life.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Right, Yes, indeed, yes, indeed, that's why I have of
It's always good, a good opportunity to catch up with
family and and just put you know, get in touch
with two roots and the things that are the most
important in life. And I'm always look forward to that time.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
I'll tell you what these are fantastic projects. One that
I'm already into a couple of more I got to
get into. It's Power Book four Force, part of the
Power franchise, got over one point six billion hours viewed
globally there on Stars of course, the LA Law reboot pilot,
the political documentary One Person, One Vote in hbos the
Alabama Solution out there too, which premiered to critical acclaim
(35:58):
there too at that Sundawn Film Festival. You guys can
check out all these great projects out there too, across
your streaming platforms. Always great to catch up with two
of the best, Mark Bats and Chris Handleb out there.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Appreciate you being with us, and happy holidays to you
and your family, and looking forward to many more great
things happening in the careers that you guys, already have
out there Hall of Fame careers and mean more great
things coming.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
We appreciate you so much.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
Thanks Brandon A, thank you so much, Brandon.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It was great to be on that.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, so you got it, Chris Hannah, but Mark Batson
out there too, and of course more great artists coming
up over the next few weeks here too. Happy holidays
to everybody out there too. From the Backstage Past KYB
in ninety eight point one, your Bay Area broadcasting network
TCHWN dot orgonpowered by the Sports Guys Podcast dot com,
now top search on iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
We'll see you soon, God blessed, take care.
Speaker 9 (36:46):
Hey all, this is Chanler Marie and you're listening to
the award nominated Backstage Pass on KYBN ninety eight point one,
your Bay Area broadcasting network. You can listen to on
THCHWN dot org and on iHeartRadio podcasts in any time.
I'm at the Sports Guys Podcast dot com.
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