Episode 198 - Out Here Flashing - The Bad Taste Crime Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
H why their arrivals unspeakable.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm not doing.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
They did want bother. It's got to worry about.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Something.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at
least I felt that.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I could keep their skeletons.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm Vicky,
I'm Rachel. We are back again. Oh my god, A
long time since we've recorded. To be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
I think it feels like we recorded like last week. No,
I feel the opposite way.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
I've done so many Not to sound self important, but
I've done so many things.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Such a Gemini and see I'm like at home with
my kids and like another day passes by.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
No, I really have just been like running, running, running,
And the times that I'm not, I'm like, I don't
want to do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, Christmaston at home and you need a break early pop. Yeah,
I need a vacation. Let's take a vacation. I wish
I had a vacation, kind of money vacation. So we
are Avocado Mystery Podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Back to talk about Uh murder, Yeah, murder, you guys, murder.
We got murder, solid murder episode. I think today, Uh
if this is your first time listening.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
A special hello to you.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
We are going to head over to the news room.
Let's go there, hold my hand.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Watching today we had fifty.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Way So this week our news comes from the babyc
where we're talking about in eighteen care gold fully functional toilet.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Why, okay, that's a throne.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, yeah, so there was this. It's it's estimated to
be four point eight million pounds like money.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Okay, it's worth that's yeah, yes, not.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yeah, fair fair. It is made of gold. But it
was at so it's part of this art exhibition.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Okay, that was.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
At Belenheim, Belenheim Palace. Okay, and it's the name.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Of the artwork. Are you ready? Oh no America, Yeah,
they're right, they're right.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
So this piece of artwork, this golden toilet, was stolen,
but it was four million pounds.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
I lift.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
I have imagine it's slightly heavier. That is gold heavier
than porcelain, I.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Think, so i'd be fairly heavy.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Or whatever toilets are made of. I don't know, oh
if they're all porcelain now anyway, but.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Gold is heavy, it is heavy. Well I remember somebody
doing you know that dumb like the devil went down
to Georgia thing where like the guy meets the devil
challenges into the fiddle contest, and it's like, if you win,
you win the solid gold fiddle. I've seen people post
like a solid gold fiddle would be so fucking heavy
and if work.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
They talk about that in an episode of Futurama. That's
exactly what I was thinking. I'm trying to escape on
his head. He's like, well, if you would drop that
gold fiddle.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Oh yeah, I would go yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
So this gold toilet was just stolen on September fourteenth,
twenty nineteen, and the man accused of sealing it, thirty
nine year old Michael Jones. He's denying this one kund
of burglary. And then there's two other guys, Frederick thirty
six year old Frederick Doe and forty one year old
Bora goochick uh huh that were charged as conspiring to

(04:08):
transfer criminal property.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Oh, I see, they get away.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
So they have said that he was at the exhibition
the day before, but that it was at home at
the time that the toilet was stolen. So it's from
this conceptual artist named Marizio Catalan, And this is like
I don't know. This is just like the weirdest thing
to be so weird. Yeah, so you had to book

(04:32):
a slot to use the toilet. Oh no, as like
part of the exhibition, you could like book a slot
to use it, you like pooh and pe in it. Yeah,
it's fully functional, but it's just made of solid gold ew. Yeah.
That's so he's currently on trial like for stealing this.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, this toilet, that's some that's some lou larces. Yeah,
here's the here. Do you want to see a picture
of it?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Oh my god. Wow, it's not even a nice toilet.
I mean, it's just a toilet like it's but gold.
Just looks like a public, public toilet, but gold.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
So we are going to move on to Netflix and
kill where this week we are talking about a series
called Biggest Heist Ever.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Oh okay, it is.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
This documentary about these two people who managed to pull
off this huge bitcoin heist, essentially Morgan and her husband Liechtenstein.
Oh yeah, very strange anyway, So they sort of like

(05:47):
she she was like a rapper.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
They're both they're both white.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
First of all, she is very like instagrammy cringey rapper,
and she was and people were like it's so.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Bad, it's good. I'm like, it's just bad. It's really
really bad. And he was like tech guy Lichtenstein.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, he was like a tech bro. And they basically
have been arrested and accused of laundering one hundred and
twenty thousand bitcoin.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Oh my god. It is what a strange couple.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, yeah, Ilia Liechtenstein and Heather Morgan are their names.
So she was known as Razul Khan. Was her like
what internet persona rat PERSONA.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Never heard of her?

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, it is super bizarre. I will say, it's not
like I don't know, it was okay, it was okay.
Generally speaking, it was definitely entertaining just because these two,
especially her, they like some characters. Yeah, they're definitely characters,
and these people are like just kind of go into
log with it a lot of the time.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
So it is.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Interesting in that regard. But like now you're starting to
see more of this kind of crime, like the digital
crime where people are stealing cryptocurrency, which something like bitcoin
is like legit actually worth some money. I think cryptocurrency
in general is.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
A scale too. I hate it.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
For whatever reason, bitcoin seems to be worth a lot
of money. Yeah, so, like I do anticipate seeing more
of this type of sure thing.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Until they get like actual regulations on it, it's just
going to go crazy. It's like AI.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, and this even I'm if I remember correctly because
it's been a couple of weeks since I've watched this.
It was like them selling a product or a service
that people had to pay for with bitcoin type of thing,
or investing in something they were doing with they invested
in bitcoin, or they transferred the money to bitcoin to
then try to transfer it out of the company. But
that's kind of complicated because bitcoin has these basically marketplaces

(07:59):
where you can see what bitcoin is being traded and
like who it belongs to, like it's very publicly tracked.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, it's this is so stupid. I think, such a
fucking scale. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
This is why I'm not in finance, I guess. Anyway,
check it out.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
It was a nice it's it's short. I want to say,
it's like two three episodes.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Okay, that's not something. Yeah, it wasn't super super long.
It is entertaining, but it's not I don't know, there's
just a weird it sounds funny, Yeah, just a weird.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Couple of people.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, this is that part of the show where we
say content may not be appropriate for our listeners. We
will definitely be discussing instances of murder and various sexual crimes.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Mine's got ghosts? Got what ghosts? Okay, of course, Okay,
morning for ghosts. Yeah, ectoplasm in this episode.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
So off the back of like going on this sort
of marathon true crime watching, I do this. I will
like watch a ton at a time and then take
a little break watching time. So I decided this week
that we should talk about some cases that have been
featured on one of our favorite shows.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yes, Unsolved Mysteries.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, And so before we get too far into it,
I do want to talk about the show just a
little bit, because, like, I'm sure we've talked about Unsolved
Mysteries on the show, and if you listen closely to
the intro, the intro theme, I think it's pretty clear
we're like fans. Yeah it's an Easters.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
So Unsolved Mysteries first began airing as a series of
primetime specials. I actually didn't know this. Yeah, they weren't
sure how it was going to do, because like this
kind of true crime content.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Was just like not really forever.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, they had like detective shows and stuff, but like
the actual like true crime documentary type stuff was not
really a thing.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
She was a pioneer.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
So they did like the series of primetime specials specials.
They started in January of nineteen eighty seven. It was
originally hosted by actor Raymond Burr. Are you familiar with
him at all?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
It sounds familiar.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
So he was in Rear Window, he was in Godzilla,
like one of the original Godzillas, and probably most notably,
he was in Perry Mason.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
He was Perry Mason like the og. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
From the original series. So they did this series of
specials and then by the time NBC decided to make
it into a series in nineteen eighty eight, so just
a year later, Burr was replaced with our beloved Robert Stack, Yes,
the man, the myth, the legend who in the series
during the entire original series run from nineteen eighty eight

(11:06):
to two thousand and two, when he was diagnosed with
prostay cancer.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, poor guy.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
And then he died I think the following year, like
during treatment and stuff.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
We love him.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
The show was rebooted by Spike in two thousand and eight,
which I do not remember it at all, and it
ran for like two years.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
I was going to say, I don't think I watched
any of that.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
No, it was hosted by Dennis Farina on Spike for
like two years. I do not remember that at all.
But finally, and in my opinion, like I would say,
this is due largely to this sort of resurgence of
true crime interest, it was rebooted by Netflix again in

(11:49):
twenty twenty. There's five volumes that Netflix has done. They
opted not to have a host, and I think that
is just because of the way documentary content is made now,
you don't need a host.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's true, exact kind of antiquated. But I like a host.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, I do two, I do two, but they do
do like an homage to Robert Stack in the intro
to the read. I don't know if you've ever watched
the reboot on.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Let's Get It. It's good.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, it's pretty good. And I will also say, uh,
the show itself has existed largely without controversy uh, and
was lauded for its sort of like interactive style where
like you could call in and give tips and like
they would provide updates on cases they had featured. Like
that was kind of a new thing too.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Uh and super solid show. Yeah, they had like three
hundred something. I want to say maybe and maybe I'm
pulling that number out of my ass, but I feel
like I remember seeing somewhere it was like the only
fifty something cases solved thanks from like tips to the
show and.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
People calling in and like yeah, yeah, so, like that's
pretty fucking cool. That was a whole section on the website.
When I went to research that this, it was like
they have him in like little folders and it was
pieces that have been solved. I was like, this is extensive.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yes, yeah, so I thought, I mean there's so many,
there's so much from And I will also say this
was I take it back. There was one slightly controversial thing,
oh slightly, and it was the fact that because it
is unsolved mysteries, it does feature some like you know,
like the ghost stories, some alien kind of things, you know,

(13:29):
the that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
I picked one of those. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
NBC was not super happy about that, right, and then
they had to start putting a warning on it that said,
this is not a news broadcast.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Right, it's kind of interesting.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, they were like, damn it, why do you have
to include this like paranormal.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Bullshit because we like it? Dad.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, that would probably be about the only controversy. But
I don't think the public was necessarily useful.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
I always liked it. It was such like variety. You
never really knew what you were going to see, and
sometimes you'd see a little bit of everything. Yeah episode. Yes.
So the guy I'm going to talk about today, his
name is Edward Harold Bell. Okay.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
He was born in May nineteen thirty nine. He was
the son of an oiled field worker in the Houston
area in Texas.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Now this is according to his own account of his childhood.
So grain assault here. Bell was allegedly physically abused from
a young age from a family member, and he claimed
various scout masters in the boy Scouts, which like also,
I can see.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right, Yeah, that wouldn't be the first time that happened.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
Bell would also allege that his father is the one
who encouraged him to do anything on the sort of
violent crime spectrum, from like sexual assaults to like armed
robbery like that, you know what I mean, Like anywhere
on that s of.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
He's like you go out and do it. Yeah, you
can do it.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
You go be violent, do it weird. But even with
all of this allegedly happening in the background, Bell managed
to make a pretty decent life for himself. He earned
his high school degree from Columbus High School. He went
on to get a physical education degree at Texas A
and M Cool. After college, Bell got a job driving,
and I also saw that he was like a mechanic,

(15:25):
like decent kids something. Got married, he moved with his
wife to Western Texas, where they started family. They had
three kids. They were living on this ranch. Eventually he
left the dressing. Yeah like the land. No, I know,

(15:46):
you have ranch on a ranch.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
I'm sure he did. Every morning he had little carrot
sticks and ranch on his ranch. And I was like,
this is the light. I really made it.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
So eventually he left this driving job and he got
work as a traveling pharmaceutical salesman and moved back to
the Houston area where like his office and stuff was
at Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Traveling pharmaceutical salesman sounds like drug dealer.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
It's like the it's the office friendly yeah version, the
corporate speak illgal traveling pharmaceutical rep so he's a plug.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I love him.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
So it seems like Belle's first major arrest came in
nineteen sixty six, when he was arrested in Sudan, Texas
for exposing himself to two young girls.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Oh my god, just be out here.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Flashing ew As part of his sentencing, Bell was sent
to the Big Spring State Psychiatric Hospital for treatment, after
which he was released. And it was kind of unclear
like how long he was actually in custody there, because
it didn't seem like it was very long.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
They were like, don't flash your wiener, and he was like,
I'm cured. I did.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Like I wonder what they are treating him for just
being a flasher is not like, yes, that's not a
I mean it's not great, but like it's not a
mental illness.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
I mean maybe maybe like a sexual addiction compulsion, Yeah, yeah, maybe,
which I disagree with. Yeah, sexual sex addiction is like
the thing that came to mind, because right, you know
that is sort of that's what they all say, you know,
whether it's true or not, and it's not right, you know, right.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
I will say whatever they did in there did not work. No,
he got arrested again for the same thing in April
nineteen sixty nine.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
That's gross.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
There's a little blurb about this arrest in the Lubbock
Avalanche Journal that says he was a graduate student at
Texas Tech and that he had been charged quote charged
with indecent exposure and connection with an incident involving the
thirteen year old daughter of a Lubbic policeman.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Okay, stupid. Maybe he's addicted to being stupid. He doesn't
have sex addiction, he has like dumb ass addiction. Also like,
why did you do that? A cops kid? Like, I
kept it kid? Yes, you're stupid. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
According to the victim, the girl said, a man wearing
only a shirt stepped from a car Tuesday afternoon near
her home.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Oh he's Winny the pooing it. Yeah he was. Oh
my god, that's so terrible.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
But yes, yes, So he was arrested and given a
thirty five hundred dollars bond. But this wasn't the first time,
obviously that he had been caught for flashing children like
you do, and so he was definitely looking at a
harsher punishment, and it seems like in order to avoid that,

(18:52):
he was sent to the University of Texas Medical Branch
for continued treatment of what. Like I said, I could
only assume it's like maybe bretophilia, maybe sex addiction like whatever,
compulsion like whatever they were treating him for. So they
send him there rather than give him a harsher self.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
So much trouble, I just would have cut it off.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, once he got there. It did not dissuade his behavior,
because he continued to make sexual advances towards underage patients
while he was in treatment.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Ew I hate this, just cut cut his wiener off.
You can't show it if you don't have it. Yeah,
and true unicify him. Yeah. Ni.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
By the time he was released, Belle's wife had divorced
him and and he was forbidden to see his kids by.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Order at the court.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
It was like, you are not allowed around your own
children because you just can't stop flashing.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, put your wiener away.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
But it's fine because he fell in love well at
the facility. Oh no, So when he got out, Belle
and the seventeen year old patient stop it. He had
began a relationship with left and moved to a beach
house in Galveston.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Oh poor thing.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
While there, he met a man named Doug Prunes and
became a silent partner in this like surfboard business. And
this guy was like he's kind of weird, but like,
come to maybe he's just a weird guy. Yeah what Yeah,
he sounds fucking weird. Yeah no, Bell was weird, not Doug.

(20:31):
Doug Prunes was normal. It just sounds like a weird
it's a weird Doug Prunes.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Bell is weird. Bell. It was fucking weird.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
He's like, this guy's kind of weird, but like he's
a silent partner, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
What I mean, So like I'll just deal with it.
So whatever.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
But once again Bell got up to his old tricks
and continue to be arrested for exposing himself and masturbating
in front of young girls in Texas and Louisiana throughout
the seventies, put him in jail. He was arrested multiple
times but didn't receive any convictions. All charges were like
dropped or he was found not guilty, or like why
yeah this happened like multiple times.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so that's fun.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I hate this guy.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Things escalated to a deadly point in August nineteen seventy eight,
when Bell was in Pasadena. He had been driving around
in his truck when he spotted a group of young girls,
so he pulled his red and white GMC truck over
in front of the group of girls and got out,

(21:34):
naked from the waist down and began masturbating, like walking
towards this group of kids. It's disgusting. At the same
time this is happening, a man named Larry Dickens was
at his mother's house on the same street, mowing the lawn,
and he sees this guy, like this whole random stranger.

(21:54):
His mom is like in the kitchen washing dishes, like yeah,
looking out the window seeing all of this happen. He's
mowing the lawn, sees this guy getting out of his
truck with no fucking pants on, jacking off in front
of these kids. So his mom immediately calls police and
he's like, there's this guy with no pants on and

(22:17):
Larry in the meantime, who was like he was like
an ex marine, he was military, Okay, goes over to
Larry to confront him, heed him a lot of times.
He's like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, Larry's
like putting his pants on. He rushes over, he grabs
the keys from the truck to make sure he doesn't
try to like Gove grabs the keys from the truck,

(22:38):
but we didn't know was belt was armed, and he
pulled a pistol on Larry.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
He shot him four times.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Larry like stumbles into his garage, and at this point,
his mom is kind of like hearing these gunshots go out.
She rushes outside, is literally like holding her son after
he had just been shot a bunch of times. Larry
goes or Bell goes back to the car, gets a rifle,
returns and shoots Larry in the hut.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Oh my god, and leaves yes, yeah whoa yeah, in
front of like the mom is there, Like in front
of the mom. He's like losing it. Yeah yeah. So
he flees the scene.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Now obviously like she had been on the phone with
police as things happening. So like she hears the gunshot,
she goes outside.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Send an ambulance, please, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
She goes back in. She's like, oh my god, they
just shot my he just shot my son. Please send
an ambulance. So police were already on their way, and
they had received a description of this guy in the
car he was in, So as they're on their way
and this is from the Unsolved Mysteries episode. Okay, officers
were on their way to the scene, they pass by

(23:59):
this truck that matches the description of Bell's truck. They
immediately turn around and begin chasing him. In the episode,
it is very dramatic. It's like this, he like drives
his truck through a fence of a back good and
one of the guys is like on a cop motorcycle
and at some point, like Bell gets out and has

(24:21):
this rifle that jams but the officer season pulls a gun,
so he like does that on purpose, like skid fall
off my bike thing to try to dodge a blow.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
You know what. It was very dramatic. It was very dramatic. Yeah,
it was. I was watching it.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
I was like, this is kind of a little much,
yeah for this, but that's what they did to They
did these reenactments.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
That's what's so great. I love it. It was a
little much.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
It was a little much, but they see him, they
turn around. There is a little bit of a chase
that happens. But twenty minutes later Bell is arrested. He's
taken into custody or I'm sorry, he's he's make it
a custody. They drive him back to the Dickens house
and he's identified.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Oh okay, Bye. So this is a lot of stuff
happening at the same time, right, So he's fleeing the scene.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
The mom has now seen this. As he's fleeing, her daughter,
Larry's sister is pulling up simultaneously and like sees this
kind of suspicious car and kind of realizes there's chaos
going on. And so she also saw him as he
was leaving. So they bring him back to be identified
by the mom and the daughter. They identify him, they

(25:34):
confirm that's the guy who just shot Larry, Poor Larry. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
So Bell was.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Charged with murder and after being held for two months,
was released on one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars
bail to await trial. But when it came time for trial,
Bell did not show. He was nowhere to be found.
It was like Bye becomes a few ugitive from the law,
great leaves.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
The last time he was confirmed to be seen was
by a woman in Brian, Texas, and this is actually
from the same episode of zolhost Away. In the episode,
she when she talks to them, she remains unidentified okay,
because she was at the time she was talking to them,
he had not been caught.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
He was like on the run too, yeah yeah, or
out face.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
But alleges that Bell broke into her home after her
husband left for work and attempted to stab her.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
However, she fought back and she.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Retrieves this gun that they have in their home, shoots
at Bell, scares him off, he leaves. He like she
calls police obviously, but that is like the last time
that he is confirmed to have been sw okay crazy
for fourteen years.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
No.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
In nineteen eighty five, Bell was named Texas He was
actually the first first person on Texas Most Wanted Fugitive list. Whoa,
it was the first one on the Texas Most Wanted List.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
That's kind of cool.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
And then a little show called Unsolved Mysteries season five,
episode twelve on December second, nineteen ninety two. Okay, it
included it was actually kind of a weird episode. It
included this I love the car chase. Yes, but it
included so it was multiple stories. It's like multiple things.

(27:32):
The first half of it was this like investigation into
Martin Luther King Junior's death. Okay, and then there was
this permit that there was this story about that.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Well, I mean they talk about them.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, there's this story about this soldier who had two
wives too, and like they didn't know about all of
this and like.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, it's this whole thing. I love that.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
But he had two wives, but they didn't know that
it was like his dad until they saw the printed
he was like a soldier and they like printed the
death notice and they're like, oh, these aren't the right detail.
That's my dad, but like these aren't the right details.
And they find out that they have this half sister
out there from this other.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, this whole thing.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
And then they had this story on Bell and Larry
Dickens murder in nineteen seventy eight and the like breakin
fun fact, Larry Dickens, the son who is moing the
lawn was played by a then unknown Matthew McConaughey.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Why yes, Yeah, I was watching it and I was like,
is that low? Yeah? Was he like right? All right?

Speaker 3 (28:43):
No, I mean he didn't have that mines, but he
did fight the guy and then died. Love it Yeah
not cool man, Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
That was like one off. No, but it was a
very like low cut, like cut off shirt and he.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Was sweaty because he's moving the one tasty.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yes, but it was like one of his first Like
I love major. That's who knew? That's so fun? Is
that funny? So somebody saw this episode.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
A man saw this episode recognized Belle as someone who
he had done business with that was living in Panama City, Panama.
What yes, So he reaches out to authorities, who turned
the matter over to the FBI. Obviously international. Now from there,
the FBI coordinated with the Panamanian National Police to confirm

(29:37):
Bell's identity and arrest him at a yacht club in Panama.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
He gets arrested nineteen ninety two, fourteen years later.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
That's when I was born baby. He nearly two years
younger than me. I was like little baby.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
He was then extradited back to the United States to
stand trial.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Okay, okay. So.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
At his trial, according to the Daily News Journal, quote,
defense attorney Larry Fathery argued that Dickens was a mean
and unstable man who attacked Bell and screamed, I'm going
to kill you in the name of Jesus.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
What end quote.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
He's like, he's this religious fanatic. He was out to
get my client.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
You know what, I'm not a religious fanatic, but if
you were half naked.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Jackie, No, no, don't worry about the penis part of this,
don't worry about that. Don't worry about that part. He
was trying to kill my client in the name of
Jesus though, what like, see.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
That's not even weird. Like, you know what, I don't
love a religious fanatic, but it's like if you were
to see you're just living here a guy and there's
just a guy Jackie guy and stick children and you
run up and you're like, I'm gonna kill you in
the name of that kind of makes sense because again,
not religious, but I feel like Jesus would be like,
don't jack off in front of children.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Probably he would probably be anti jacking off in front
of kids.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
I would hope, I would hope if you're a religious fanatic,
call in let us know pro or anti. Yeah, no,
I agree, I agree. So obviously the prosecution stupid defense.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
I know.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
I know.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Well, the prosecution had Larry's mom, right and sister who
were first hand witnesses to.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
The murder, like and also people have common sense.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Right, So the jury found him guilty of the murder,
and he was. He was sentenced to seventy years in prison,
which was essentially a life sentence. He was at that point,
he was about fifty five. Okay, so yeah, that's basically
like yay. So following his sentencing, Bell claimed his life
of being a flasher was put behind him while he
was in Panama. Moved to Panama, and I just didn't

(31:53):
flash it anymore. Bro's just flashing is gone. Third urged
to flashes no longer there.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Maybe the people in Panama were more likely to beat
him up if they saw him with his wiener out
and he was like, actually maybe don't know. I don't know. Now.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Before Belle murdered Larry Dickens, there were a number of
murders committed throughout the nineteen seventies and like in and
around Galveston, Texas, that Belle is suspected to have committed.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
These include thirteen year old Collette Anise Wilson, who disappeared
in June nineteen seventy one after getting off the bus,
fifteen year old Debbie Ackerman, and Maria Johnson, who disappeared
in November nineteen seventy one. Sixteen year old Kimberly Ray Pitchford,
who failed to return home in January nineteen seventy three
after a driver's ed class, fourteen year old Sharon Shaw

(32:49):
and Ronda Renee Johnson, who were abducted from a beach
and murdered in August nineteen seventy one, fourteen year old
Georgia Gear and twelve year old Brooks Bracewell, who did
disappeared after skipping school in September nineteen seventy four, and
three other identified teens who went missing in the early
to mid seventies.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Oh my gosh, Okay, these are all would have been
like a serial killer. He could have been.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
They're like, I mean, there's I'm I don't know, there's
something about doing murdering somebody so blatantly like he did
Larry Dickens. That is like do you think this is
the first if he's just like out out here doing whatever, Like,
do you think this is the first time that he's
killed somebody? No, definitely not maybe maybe, like wow, So

(33:37):
they had all these that he was sort of suspected of, right, yeah.
In fact, Bell had written several letters to authorities in
Harris and Galveston Counties, confessing to murdering anywhere from seven
to twelve young women in the seventies in Texas. In
one of these letters, he called them, quote the eleven

(33:58):
who went to heaven. Oh my God, is fucked up,
so weird, And he wrote multiple letters, and the number
of people would change, and sort of the things he
was taking credit for would change. So many of the
families of the missing and murdered young girls, honestly were

(34:21):
a little skeptical of these claims. Uh, And some sort
of pointed to this deal for him to receive legal
immunity for fully cooperating with police. So like, if he
were to confess these things and help them find bodies
or whatever, he would be immune from prosecution for these murders.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
You know what I'm saying. I mean, he's already in
jail for seventy years.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
Well, I guess he might as well fuck with the
police too, write you know what, Like right, you don't,
that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
It's not going to shorten his sense at all, you know,
Like I don't, I don't know. Yeah, he really has
nothing to lose. Yeah, so that's a thing.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Although many of the claims were investigated by police, the
existence of the letters Bell had written was concealed until
twenty eleven, when a retired Galveston homicide detective, a man
named Fred Page, went public, hoping to renew the investigation
into those claims. So they get these letters of him

(35:22):
confessing to these murders, they're just like, we're just gonna
keep that confidential. And they don't say anything, yeah, to
the public. They don't say anything to the families. Like
they didn't find out until twenty eleven when like this
guy went public.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah, So the Daily Review talked.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
To a lot of these family members for an article
in twenty eleven when these letters were kind of made public.
They said, quote Elmer Pitchford wanted to believe that Belle
had something to do with his daughter's unsolved killing, but
he also thinks Bell may turn out to be a kook.
The aunt of another slain girl also expressed mixed emotions
and saying it makes her question whether the suspect convicted

(36:03):
in her niece's death was the right man. So they
had somebody in that case, and she's like, so did they.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Get the right guy? Did we wrong? Like that's complicated,
that's complicated emotions.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
They also point out to. They also point out that
investigators did look into these claims when they initially came
to light, but there didn't seem to be any weight
to them. Captain Chris Kin Kloe said, quote, the bottom
line is Ed Bell has said these things before.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Is it fodder? I don't know.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
I've never been able to prove anything he has said.
Several aspects of ed Bell's story have been investigated in
the last ten years, and I never found anything. It's
not like people have turned a blind eye and a
daf ear to Ed Bell. We just can't find anything. Yeah,
So there's like, and again this happens too a lot
when you have somebody active in a certain area that

(37:02):
happens to you know, like be along a highway or like,
you know, someplace where there have been multiple bodies found
and they try to connect them as much as they can,
and sometimes it pans out and sometimes it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
So like, I don't know, it's hard to say. They
don't have any heart evidence.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
So yeah, apparently Bell was also suspected of a few
rape and murders in Panama.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Oh my, they did not like obviously they did not convict.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
I don't know if it's just because he was extra
uted back and obviously was given a life sentence here
that they just opted.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Not to convict there. But it sucks.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah. While incarcerated, Bell gave an interview to Houston Public
Media where he claims he's never killed anyone and is
in fact part of a larger government conspiracy. I want
to play you this little clip from this interview because
it's just kind of like, excuse me, is very sure,
it's like less sentiment, and I think, yes, dude, it's

(38:02):
kind of freaking weird.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
I guess someone listening to this would have to say
this song that I'm paranoid.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
I'm not for fruitat right.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
But I mean people might say that, yes, but they
might also say it sounds like a lot of people
in agencies and circumstances all conspiring and not you involved
in any way other than the flashing that you admit to.
That seems a little hard to believe that all these
agencies and all these people conspired, and that every time

(38:31):
you were in the middle of a bad situation it
was everyone else but not you who was responsible. Well,
until I got locked up in prison, I had no
idea that this program I'm a torture program had been
put on me by Frank Lendelan No, Roosevelt.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
It had to be Roosevelt.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
I was born right in the middle of his presidency.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
What I love that interviewer. He's like, Wow, have you
ever considered that maybe maybe it's you, Maybe this is
a you problem, Maybe it's not everybody else. Maybe you
did actually do this. Wow, FDR put me in prison.
He's like, it's f fault fucking so crazy. That never

(39:19):
came up again, like until he was in prison. So
like he's, oh my god, I don't know what like
circles he's running in in prison, Like I know, there's
definitely like a conspiratorial Well, he won't be running in
any circles if they know what he did. Yeah, well, yeah,
he might be in like solidary point. But when he
did it, he didn't well no, he admitted to the flashing.

(39:41):
I'm sorry, just not the murder. Murder is too far flashing.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
That's crazy, that is insane. So he's not been charged
with any other murders besides Larry Dickens.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
But this bitch is dead. Oh good.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
He died in prison on April twentieth, twenty nineteen, from
heart failure.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
At age eighty two. I hope it was painful homeboys
Dan good. Yeah, so fuck that dude.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
That is that's crazy one. And honestly it was not
a very long, unsolved mysteries.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Like episode.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
But and then of course they went back and added
the update, which made it a little but it was
like a like a blurb like.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
It wasn't like a full half of an episode. It
was like a quarter of an episode. Wow, So that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
That's a solve mysteries out here, solving crimes by dinner time.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Oh okay, So I've been on the podcast for just

(40:57):
over a year now. Fabulous time wait, hold on, yeay.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Very long applause that you have to awkwardly stand through.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
I'm sitting down. That's our live audience that we haven't
every yes call in. And one of my favorite parts
of the podcast has been getting to know you better.
She's pulling her eyes. I don't know, she's pretending that
doesn't touch her. It's been a lot of fun figuring

(41:34):
out the ways that the two of us are alike,
which shouldn't be surprising. We're from the same town, we
attended the same schools, We've always had a lot of
friends in common I've had. Our moms are friends. Our
moms are friends, they go on vacation together. Like I've
heard people say that we look alike. I think it's

(41:57):
just like tall girl with classes. I feel bad for
anybody he sounds like me. I like your voice, so Tree,
I could have been on some of those late night
phone last still could how do we know? Not? Do
you know? I'm not? I could be. That's my my

(42:18):
nighttime job. Beat picks and call ones nice. That's smart.
That's not true. By the way, I don't do either
of my mind I think's mom and when it comes
to true crime. Even if we don't always completely agree
on everything, we share a definite passion. Yeah. One area

(42:40):
that I found that we differ, however, is in the
realm of the supernatural. Oh yes I am. Yeah, I
am an ooky, spooky woo ooo witchcraft doing roone throwing,
crystal collecting, and I'm a skeptic astrology of type of

(43:02):
But you're not a believer, which is totally fun.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
I've always very been, very been. I've always been very
I'm in space and fectual like hard science.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
You're the skully. Yeah for sure, Yeah, for sure, you
were just yelling at me about P Diddy conspiracy theories
on the porch. Yeah, well you're trying to tell me
it's not. I'm here to tell you the definition. Yes
it is. No, you were right. I know you're right,
you know.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
I Yeah, I've always just been Which is funny because
like my my, I've definitely gone on a couple of
ghost hunts, like yeah, legit, like with organizations who like
do that kind of thing, not just like but I
mean I've also done like going out to this time.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
We used to go to Blood's Point all the time.
I too. Yeah, so I've.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Definitely done that kind of thing. But like I don't know,
it's just not really mind. I like to pretend that
it's real.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, I think it's fun. I think it's fun. But
I are a very like evidentiary based person, and I
totally understand a lot of like ghosty stuff, like because
I watch you know me, I watched all of those
shows and other ghosts in my house and and a
lot of the time I'm like, all right, well that
could be a ghost, but it could also be a

(44:24):
hundred other things. You know. I think people tend to
get carried away. Yes, And I've had experiences that sometimes
I look back on, I'm like, oh, you know what,
it could have been that, but I'm not sure. It's hard,
like when your emotions get caught up in it. Like
I'm a definite believer, and I will say right here
on this podcast, I've had quite a few supernatural experiences.

(44:46):
But again, like who defines that? Yeah, you know, yeah,
but I just think that's so funny. I love that
you love it well, you know, yeah, I hear what
you're saying. What you're saying. It's hard to tell. It's
hard to tell. And that's yeah, one of my favorite
I love so we love we both love unsolved mysteries. Yes,
so good. I was so excited to pick. Yeah we have.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
And it's funny because we talked about aliens earlier, like
we mentioned that they do alien stuff too. I have
always said, like, I believe in the existence of aliens
more than I believe in ghosts.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
And you know what, I think you're totally right. I
think that is more probable. I think it makes sense.
It totally makes sense. I think people who are like
there's nothing else out in the universe, Oh, there's no chance,
there's a thousand percent life out there somewhere. There's no way,
no way. Like when it comes down to like more
specific cases, you can be like, okay, that one's aliens,

(45:39):
because how many times you send me alien things And
I'm like, Rachel's not okay, Yeah, that your opinion. I
think they're real. That's just my opinion. So with this,
with this case, like because as soon as you were
like Unsolved Mysteries, I was like, oh cool, okay, I

(45:59):
think they have a wiki, which they do. They do
so is very good wiki, very good wiki. All their
stuff is so like I appreciate the show so much
because everything's so like well organized. Yes, I went to
the website and I was like, okay, like, let me
pick one of these murders. And then I saw the
little folder they had that was like ghosts in the Supernatural,
Like I'm gonna annoy her and pick that. Immediately, something

(46:20):
in his room is telling me to choose this folder
and that's where I intuitively picked it with my intuition. Yeah,
that immediately came to mind. And I've seen the episode
and it's one of my favorites and I can't wait
to share it with you. Okay, So this is the
episode called black Hope, and the case takes place in

(46:43):
like nineteen eighty two. I was gonna say, I think
mine's in Texas as well. It is in Texas, now, Texas.
Why do we always pick the same stuff. I don't know.
I've been doing Japan for a long while, so I
was like, I can't do that again. I know I've
been like newer ones because I like, I did a
bunch of like old ones and it hasn't been on purpose.

(47:04):
But I realized the other day, like, damn, a lot
of my cases are coming from Japan that they actually
though they do they do, they do it, which probably
isn't a good thing, right right, Yeah, we appreciate we
do too. As podcast, we do too. Yeah, absolutely, especially lately.
This isn't a political podcast. Yeah no. So this case

(47:28):
starts with this couple, Sam and Judith Haney, and they
you know, were married. They were like, Okay, let's purchase
a house. Let's start our life together. So they purchased
a house in the Newport area of Houston, Texas. Okay,
so they're chilling, and you know, Texas it's hot, so

(47:51):
I'm sure Judith was like, actually I need a pool immediately,
which I would do. If I lived in Texas, I'd
be swimming every day in my life.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
I feel like that's like having auto start on your
car here, Yeah, which I wish I had, but like
it's very much like it's so good a necessity.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Do you go and like I start your car?

Speaker 3 (48:12):
It depends on how cold it is, but yeah, yeah,
I have to do that because I don't have auto start.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
I didn't have it for a long time. Yeah, it's
one day. I don't have that kind of money. Oh
i'm it's my husband's car. I would even have a car.
Who has money? Fair just kidding. We're very rich from
this podcast, No, definitely not definitelyillionaires A cash in by
now and said fuck this goo bye everyone, You'll never

(48:39):
see me again. Wow, she's dipping. I spend the whole
intron to the podcast being like I love getting to
know you, and you're like.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Bye, I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound
of my million dollars on.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
So, yeah, Judith, I'm sure, was like, give me a pool.
Sam was like okay. So he started going about like
putting a swimming pool in the backyard, and then all
of a sudden, this old man shows up at the door.
He's like, are you And I love the way that
the the wiki puts this. An elderly man showed up

(49:15):
at the door to report that he was about to
dig up human remains. O, what's up?

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (49:23):
You know those human remains in your backyard? Oh you don't, well,
let me show you. I gotta get them your shovel.
He So they were like hello, and he was like, yeah,
I buried them there. So, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
So this wasn't even a I'm sorry I imagined, like
an official.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Oh no, no, no, oh no, just an old man.
Are you like selling something or are you like a neighbor?
And he's like, I'm going to dig up the corpses
in your backyard. Did he tell them that it was
remains that he bearied in the backyard? Yeah? What the fuck? Okay,
so yeah, that's why I'm here. What's up? Weird? And
but it became a little more understandable when he was like, yeah,

(50:01):
did you know that this area where all of these
new houses are was once the cemetery? Okay? And they
were like, oh, well we didn't fucking know that. Because
that's is that true? Scary? It is true? Okay, because
that's the name of the cemetery is black Hope.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Okay, yeah, all right, okay, So Sam, I'm sorry, I'm
being like, this guy's a murderer. Oh no, he's just
trying to be helpful. Oh no, he is a fucking murder.
Oh wait, he's just trying to be helpful. He's just
a weird He is just a weirdo. He's just a
weird So he's not official. But there was a cemetery, yes,
but he is not like an official there to dig

(50:36):
up the bone. No, he's just a guy who wants bones. Yes,
at of guilt, I'll okay, okay, I'm sorry. No no, no, no,
no asking too many questions, no no, no.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
No, okay, that's what a podcast is. No, this is
my turn. Shut up.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
I know.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
No talking, no reacting, no coughing. So Sam was like, okay,
let me let me dig because I'm putting in a
pool anyway. So let's dick together, friend, and he did
pretty quickly come across two skeletons right where the old
man said they would be. Okay, so he's like, oh shit,

(51:12):
there were two coffins pine boxes. Well at least they
were still in boxes, right, I know, in the old days,
a lot of people weren't in coffins, so he found
them in full of bones. So he did the smart
thing and immediately called the police. Yes, that is what
you do. I've seen so many people on these shows

(51:32):
be like, I found a bone, So.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
I called my neighbor Greg to come over and check
it out. Can he confirm that these are bones?

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Wild? Yeah, So there's just like skeleton party in their car.
Not good. So the sheriff came and the county corner
came to do an official exhumation. They said that so
they were able to tell when they opened I mean, obviously,
if you find a hind box with a certain size,
you're like this right, And when they opened it, they

(52:03):
were like, obviously it's a skeleton. But the bones were
so old that when the coroners tried to touch them,
a lot of them like dissolved. Oh no, like kind
of turned to dust. Yeah, but they found a couple.
Let me see, they found twenty five fragments, okay of
bone and then this is so sad they were as
they were trying to find their identities. One of the

(52:26):
only things because again, twenty five fragments does not a
skeleton make right, so you know, can't really ascertain cause
of death or anything like that. They did find a
wedding ring on both of the skeleton's hands. Okay, so
it's like, okay, that's something. Yeah, there's a picture, but
it's really gross, to be honest with you, ew bones,

(52:48):
I mean I can't you can kind of see like
the bone hands? Is that inside a grave? Yeah? Or
is it like an aerial picture?

Speaker 4 (52:56):
Here?

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Let me, yeah, zoom in it like it's such a
bad picture that it like decordates. Do you see the hands? Okay,
it does kind of look like an aerial photo. Does.
I don't know why I showed that to you. It's
the size of a postage stamp across this table. And
I didn't doom Enny on date glasses. We also both

(53:17):
have glasses. Yeah, So obviously the police were able to
ascertain like these are very old and well they were
there would be record. I would like, who should be there?

Speaker 5 (53:30):
Right?

Speaker 2 (53:30):
They knew they would obviously maybe not immediately, but they
would be like, oh, this is obviously a cemetery. But
they were able to make sure because I'm if there
were a body found in my yard, I'd be like Okay,
but I didn't kill that person, you know what I mean.
They were very quickly ruled out like this a long
time ago. You guys did do that. But the couple
was very interested obviously, so they were trying to determine

(53:54):
who the skeletons had belonged to. Okay, so they contacted earlier,
you were like, they called their neighbor Greg, They contacted
longtime resident Jasper Norton neighbor. Greg called their neighbor Jasper,
who coincidentally was like, oh, yeah, I dug a ton
of graves in that area. Yeah, it was just a
grave digger. It's fine. When I was a teenager, they

(54:15):
had me out digging graves. They were like, that's weird, Jasper.
You should probably go to the Okay, I mean, if
they pay good, I'll dig some graves. Well, yeah, that's true.
The money is right, I will dig some graves. It's
so traumatizing. Maybe, yeah. So the kind of reason that
it was built on top of. Unfortunately, if you haven't
already ascertained from the name Black Hope, it was a

(54:39):
cemetery for many It was all African Americans, and most
of them were slaved. And this is in Texas. Yes,
of course.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Okay, okay, I gotcha, which is horrible. Got okay, that's depressing.
I thought, I know, the spooky name, I know, that's
what I was like. It sounded kind of like pirty.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, oh cool, yeah, like the black Pearl.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
When I went to Key Wes, they had a bunch
of like pirate burial areas and stuff, very piratey. Yeah. No,
it's just a cemetery for slaves. Yeah great, yeah, that's
I know. And they just saved it over and that's insane. Yeah,
that's awful, like those poor people. The last burial there

(55:26):
occurred there in nineteen thirty nine, and then while they
were building the subdivision, construction crews just like leveled it.
Did they know it was there? Oh yeah, they smashed
all the gravestones and just like went over it. They
feel like something that would be like a protected side
or something you would think, you know, I don't know
if and I don't know if like it was like.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
A you know, we have like the Civil War era
graveyard in town that's like the it's like a protected
VICKI I've seen a ghost there, Okay, whatever, I really
we're not talking about that today. I'm not talking about
that today. We're talking about topic.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
We're talking about this. I'll talk about whatever. This is
my time, my time. So they did through their neighbor
who had been like the teenage grave digger, very very
punk of him, they were able to figure out the
identity of those two particular people, and they were uh,

(56:26):
Betty and Charlie Thomas. They were a married couple. They
had been born into slavery and then during the Civil
War they were freed, and then they died during the
nineteen thirties and were interred there at the cemetery. But
those were the two people who were in their yard,
and it really seems like they were so sweet. The
couple was so sweet, Sam and Judith. They seemed to

(56:48):
hold this is the people who owned the property. Yes, okay,
they seem to hold a lot of guilt, which I
completely understand. I felt guilty reading I lived there. Yes,
it's like of course, and it's not they didn't do anything.
I totally understand. Like the horrible sadness of like, wow,
I've just been walking around on these people's graves, like

(57:08):
and they've been so disrespected, Like that's so sad. So
this is again it was just bone fragments. So they
had I think, like a little box, and they had
no living relatives, so they were just kind of The
police were like, here, here you go. Well, here's the remains.
I guess, I guess they're yours in your property. Yeah,

(57:31):
you know, I don't know why they would do that,
but they decided to rebury them. They were like, okay, well,
you know, they made a nice little area and on
their property. I figured they're already digging a big hole, right,
Let's make sure. And there's a lot of people who
have that belief of like if you're disinterred, your your

(57:51):
soul can't be laid to rest, not even like a
ghosty thing, like a spiritual Yeah, so they were like,
let's just rebury them to make sure that they can
get rest. Despite this, the dead would not rest. Spooky.
It was a foggy night, very foggy. Light was not

(58:13):
that gray. The lights flicker on and off, and there
would be nobody there, no star. I can't take the
movie series, I know, it's all I think. So this
is all of the this has been all of the oky,
spooky paranormal activity starts. This is one of my favorite epos. Okay.

(58:34):
One night, Judith woke up to discover her clock glowing
and like putting off sparks. Okay, ser weird. So she
was like, oh my god, let me it's it's gonna
start on fire. Let me make sure to unplug it.
It was already unplugged. Whoah. So she was already like

(58:58):
kind of freaked out. Another night, poor little freaked out
Judith was all alone in the house because Sam was
working the night shift. She was like a little nervous.
So she's doing what you do in a horror movie
when you're a girl alone and taking a shower. Yeah, yeah, true.
And she's just like, you know, shampooing, and she hears
the shower door open and close. I feel like she

(59:20):
probably assumed her husband got home early, right, She's like okay,
and she heard someone say what are you doing. She
was like huh, so she assumed it was her husband.
She was like, I'm shampooing my hair. Yeah. And then
when she got out of the shower, he was not home. Oh,
he had not gotten home yet. He wouldn't be home
for like hours. So she was like, oh the hell,

(59:42):
wasn't my shower Yeah, not my butt, it's a ghost.
It's a ghosts definitely a ghost. It's only explanation. The
next morning, so Judith, as us girls do, had a
particular pair of shoes. She wanted to wear this bright
red pair of shoes. Okay, love, these shoes can't wait.
Looking in the closet, she cannot find her damn red shoes.

(01:00:04):
So she enlists her husband, which, as a girl with
a husband, why would he know where your shoes are?
He doesn't know where his own shoes are.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Maybe just so he doesn't get yelled at by you,
he memorizes the shoes so that way when you're like,
I can't believe you did blah blah blah with my shoes,
and he's like, actually don't know exactly where they are.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
He's got like pictures. That's actually smart husbands. That's smart
to do stuff to not get yelled at. So guess
where they were in her closet? No, in the garage. No,
they were on top of Charlie and Betty's grave on
her feet, oh like very ward of wearing them the
whole time. They were on the grave outside the grave

(01:00:46):
outside whether they have dogs, no, my uh theory, because
you know, of course I'm like, I would love to
believe that this is a real haunting, and I think
it could be, but they obviously felt so much guilt
about it, and we're thinking about it a lot. I
wonder if it was maybe sleepwalking a lot of people

(01:01:09):
sleepwalking about Yeah, yeah, maybe, sure. They it was really
late and they were tired, and you woke up in
the middle of the night kind of and put your
shoes on to go outside, and you were sitting by
the grave feeling sad. And then you woke up and
you're like, why the hell am I out here? And
then you go back inside and you leave your shoes there.
You know, it's not implausible that other things are going on,

(01:01:29):
but I understand why they were. They were uki spooky. Yeah, okay,
now OOKI spooking it even a little further. That day,
when the red shoes were on the grave, they found
out that it was the deceased woman's birthday. Oh damn.
So they said it was kind of cute in the documentary.
They were like, it's kind of like her husband got

(01:01:49):
a re present. I'm like, ah, but my shoes, okay,
how do you know that they fit down? Girl? My shoes?
My shoes dude, that's okay. Yeah, I'm skeptical. Well, when
they were telling all of their neighbors about this, like,
oh my god, our house is haunted, they were like,

(01:02:10):
our houses are haunted as well, because all of their
neighbors are also sure on the cemetery. So they're like,
they're not the only ones experiencing this phenomena. Okay, A
dozen of their neighbors would report things like the water
turning on and off, the lights turning on and off,
electrical mishaps.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Many I imagine their own like little Facebook group of
like called sat What is that like next door?

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Yeah, they're like except for the haunts. The haunts on
the absolutely joined the group. I want to do that.
I want to make like a like a town hauntings group.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
My god, it would it would totally collapse within like
four phase into just complete chaos.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I think it would be fun. I don't know about fun.
It would be entertaining, for sure. But people were here
and stuff. People were seeing ghosts, people were seeing all
kinds of stuff. One couple in particular who were in
the documentary, the documentary the episode were Jean and Ben Williams.

(01:03:20):
They're like right after Sam and Judith. One thing that
Jean started noticing was that her plants kept dying. She
was like a big gardener and she would always try
to plant and everything would die. A big gardener or
a bad gardener. Bump, Well, this is like sad and gross.

(01:03:43):
She reported that sinkholes appeared in the unmistakable shape of coffins.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Oh okay, see that could be real though, Okay, that
is a thing that happened.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
No, that's what I think that really did happen. I
think that these people were probably experiencing real things. I
don't think any of them, you know whatever, But I
don't think any of them were right assaw ghost for
a TANSI I think that like realistically, like the electrical outlets,
the electrical emergencies, Like maybe the people who did their
electrical grid were stupid, you know, maybe it's in a

(01:04:14):
bad area. Maybe it has something to do with so
much of the ground being disinturned. I don't know electricity,
and like the of course, I'm sure thing for sure
like that is definitely happened. For the plants wouldn't grow
is like well, they probably took dirt from somewhere else
that was like not fertile and dumped it there some

(01:04:37):
something is leaking out of the wood in the casket
or metal or something and that it gets buried or
I feel like that would be good for plants though,
that's what I thought. I was like, why wouldn't the
plants grow? But then I was like, oh, a lot
of cheap dirt they get from, like you know areas
where no one, Okay, do they not just fill it
with the dirt then they dug out from the home.

(01:04:58):
You need extra dirt? You yeah, you always made extra.
I mean you always see those big old trucks of dirt.
You know, maybe they're trying to make sure that it's
like level and when you take up I'm sure there's
like a lot of like rocks, yeah, and like sand.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
But I'm also like, you're not filling the same amount
of the hole because there's a casket in them?

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Are you a grave digger? Call in the ma ain't
math in for me? Why would they need more dirt?
That don't make sense and they always seem to I'm
not sure, but that would be my theory right, Like,
it doesn't really make sense that other that things wouldn't
grow when things were decomposed, like underneath it just as
a garden. It doesn't really make anyway. Yeah, yes, yeah,

(01:05:40):
continue whatever. It's the Mystery Gardening podcast. So Ben and Jean,
this was the couple that this new couple. While they
were out unsuccessfully gardening, they noticed strange markings on like
some of their trees that looked like arrows pointing towards
the ground. They were like, oh, what is that. A

(01:06:01):
long time resident was like, oh, hey, what's up. I
did that a long time ago so that I could
remember that. That's where my family members are buried. My
two sisters are buried there. Okay. So they were just like,
and we're living here on top of like these two.
So they were just like, he just like visits at
night when yeah, everyone's sleep standing floating ghost. We solved

(01:06:27):
the case. Unsolved mysteries no more, it's this neighbor. And
after this they started experiencing more super natural phenomenon as well.
So again me trying to adopt your molder or your
scult SONA, Yeah, I'm boulder. It seems guilt based. A
lot of it seems like they feel so bad that

(01:06:49):
they start to like experiencing random things. They're putting it
down to like, oh my god, this is the ghost.
I feel so bad. And they're thinking about it all
the time. It's totally makes sense, right, They're seeing shadows,
they're smelling stinky smells, they're having cold pockets in their house.
They had a granddaughter, Carly, who like lived with them
from time to time. I guess she said that, Okay,

(01:07:11):
it's Texas, it's hot, right. She would just be walking
through the house and it would all of a sudden
be freezing. Yeah. Quote, it would be very, very chilly,
and you'd have this feeling of foreboding or just you know,
like something wasn't right anywhere in the house. You'd have
a feeling that you were not alone, somebody was watching you.
It terrified me to be in the house by myself.
She also said the toilets used to flush on their

(01:07:33):
own as the water went down. I could hear what
was almost like conversations. You would hear people murmuring to themselves.
It was a presence or spirit or something there, something
that wanted to be heard, wanted me to know that
it was there. That kind of makes me think of it.
Remember when she's like looking into the drain and ghost

(01:07:55):
children like come play in the sewers and she's like, yeah,
oh I'm cool. I'm good on that, thank you. So yeah, spooking.
The wife wanted to leave. She was like, I'm dipping
a quote. I absolutely believed that all of these things
happened to us because we were on the graveyard and
we were simply going to be tormented until we left there.

(01:08:17):
Like she was like, no, I'm not doing this, but
her husband Ben was like, this is our house. We
live here. We have to like fight it. I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
The other thing too, is like they didn't start experiencing
any of this until after they found out that there
was people right right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
I'm not saying I'm just saying, although they could have
experience because a lot of this, like the things they
were experiencing are not like we did this love the ghost.
They could have been like, oh, this house has electrical problems,
it was weird cold pockets and not thought about it.
But I totally, I totally agree. Okay, sorry, just something
I thought of. I was like, it's okay, Scully, Okay,

(01:08:58):
this is kind of weird. Six of their close relatives
within like a few months, were diagnosed with cancer and
three of them died. Okay, so they were kind of like,
it's a curse. It's a curse by ghosts. Sure, yeah,
it's not science at all. Genetics are not a thing,

(01:09:19):
you know. I feel like maybe it's not Maybe it's
I don't know if the relatives like live nearby or what.
But it's like, maybe it's not healthy to live over
a graveyard. Maybe that does bad things to your body.
Maybe I don't know, it's producing hallucinogenic right chemicals in
the air they have like a detora field. Yeah. So
Sam and Judith were like, hey, it's actually time to
sue you guys. You house city know, the housing developers,

(01:09:44):
Uh okay, everyone who sold them the house, because they
were like, you didn't disclose this, and they were like, yeah,
you're right, here's one hundred and forty two thousand dollars
what thinks. But then the judge was like, just fucking kidding.
You don't get that money. The judge ruled that the
developer was not responsible. The verdict was thrown out, and

(01:10:05):
then this poor couple had to pay the court fifty
thousand dollars in court costs. Oh my god. They had
to file for bankruptcy. Yeah, isn't that that's crazy. So
as they're like doing all of this like legal stuff,
the developers were like, even though we would easily have proof,
we want proof that is a cemetery, prove it, okay.

(01:10:27):
So Jeane was like, okay, let me dig around. So
she started digging in her backyard. But she was like
literally digging, digging on the internet. Like no, because they
would already have a record. Yeah, the digs. They just
didn't want to pay her. But she started to get sick.
So her daughter was like, oh, I'll dig, I'll dig Mom.

(01:10:49):
Then Tina gets sick. Tina, the daughter gets sick.

Speaker 5 (01:10:52):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
She laid down on the couch. The daughter but was like,
I feel terrible. The dad called nine one one, they
got her to the hospital. She died two days later.
She had a massive heart attack. She was only thirty
years old.

Speaker 5 (01:11:07):
What.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Yeah, that's crazy. So they're like this is also the ghosts. Yeah,
it's a curse. They ended up. This couple was like, goodbye,
we are moving to Montana because they lost everything. You know,
their daughter died, they have no money, so they're like
we're going to Montana. Goodbye. Now. The new people that

(01:11:28):
live there have reported no paranormal activity. None. Isn't that weird?
Isn't that interesting? So this is here's a little bit
of a background about the cemetery. Many of the bodies
were buried by Jasper Norton, who was the neighbor who
was kind of like giving them all of the info. Okay,

(01:11:50):
he told them that their house and a dozen others
were built on top of the cemetery because obviously he
knew like where everything was at. Yeah, they were mainly
former enslaved people, and as many as sixty people were
interred there. Wow, and that's it. Wow, that's kind.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
It's crazy to me that they literally just plowed over
a cemetery, isn't that horrible?

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Excuse me? And just built houses on it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
In this that happens, and I get obviously like we
do not have enough land area for all of the cemeteries,
plus all of the housing houses come up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
That's what I'm saying. Like I feel like there is a.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
Process somehow for them to be moved or you know,
what have you, to be reinterred somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
And you know, I don't know, but I feel like
it was probably like a racist thing of like, oh,
this was only enslaved people.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
I mean they it would not be outside the realm
of possibility, right, Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Yeah, yeah, isn't that crazy?

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
OOKI and spooky?

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
If you want to watch unsolved mysteries, go do that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
If you want to do something else, check out this podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:13:03):
It Murder Road Trip is a true crime podcast where
I your host Haley, discuss murder cases in my car
a k a. The Mobile Beads Lab. Join me and
my partner in crime h h. Gnomes on the road.
There will be games, mixtapes, and snacks as I make

(01:13:24):
the research journey to murder scenes around the world. Make
sure to check your back seat and I'll see you
at the next rest stop.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
All right, folks, That has been our show this week. Yeah,
so it's just a little fun.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
You know, A lot of times makes me want to
watch until mystery It does such a make sure I
watch to like start from the beginning, Yeah, the old
and then you know what, I like watching the old
ones too because they were all filmed in like the
eighties and nineties.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
Yeah, it's so styles and the reenactment like it's they're
so bad, but they're so good, so good.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Do you have any final thoughts before we close?

Speaker 5 (01:14:03):
Out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Uh, sometimes guilt is just guilt and it's not ghosts. Yes,
you know what, I agree with that. I agree with that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
If you like this episode, you can find more just
like this on the Bad Taste podcast dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Sound and what do I call her sound editor?

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Our sound and production. What do I normally says? She's
our tech babe. Our sound editor is to full mound editor.
Is that what I normally say? I think so.

Speaker 3 (01:14:32):
Our music is by Jason Zakschewsky, The Enigma. It was
one of those situations where I'm like saying it and
it just doesn't sound totally know what I'm saying, and
I thought about it too much.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Yep. This has been the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. We
will see you in two weeks. Goodbye. I think it
the way that people washed over town making together line
out she real heart to believe

Speaker 3 (01:15:03):
The words in some form or another

All Episodes

Episode 198 - Out Here Flashing

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 198 - Out Here Flashing