Episode 200: Part 1 - Chestnut - The Bad Taste Crime Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hello, guys, it's it is from the future, and
it's you, and it's you. We decided after recording this
episode that it was very long. We had a lot
to say, We did have a lot to say, but
instead we have decided to split it into two parts too,
so you get two for the price of one.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're spoiled.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
You're very spoiled.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
So this is going to be part one of episode
two hundred. We hope you guys enjoy.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Why they discovered upon their arrivals unspeakable.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
I'm not doing It's got to worry about.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Something.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at
least I felt that I could keep other skeletons.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm Rachel,
I'm Vicky.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yes, and it is our two hundred episode. Oh no,
I didn't turn my button on.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, we did it.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
We did it, and we have some very exciting things
planning for this episode. First off, before we get too
far into things, we have a special guest in the
studio with us, mister Michael wan Fault.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Hello, Hello, Hello, I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yes, so I has been a friend of the show
for a very long time. You, in fact, we're are
in the field reporter in Philadelphia sending us all of
the meat crime. Yes, that was me, Yes, meat Watch. Yeah,
very based crimes. We thought we'd bring you in to celebrate.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Our two episode with us. I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, and what that entails is yet to be seen.
We'll talk about it a little bit. Yeah, but first
let's head over to the newsroom.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Watching some locals today.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
We had fifty this week.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Our news comes from Sydney, Australia. Okay, is about a
science nerd. So have you seen those things that are
like big three D diagrams of the periodic table of elements,
but they have all the elements in them, like the
actual Like have you ever seen those?

Speaker 3 (02:46):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Like okay, little boxes, yes, oh I've really.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Really seen them in like no, no, no, for a display. Yeah,
I've seen little versions of them, but I think most
of the time they're a museums. So there is this
twenty four year old guy, Emmanuel Liddon who decided he
wanted to collect all of the elements on the periodic table. Okay, yeah,

(03:12):
and he has been arrested and could be looking at
jail time for being a nerd. For being a nerd, Yeah, no,
because he breached a nuclear non proliferation law by shipping
samples of plutonium to.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
His parents' house. My god.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, he's then just living at home with like plutonium
is showing up to the house.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
It's just glow in the dark.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Is everything Okay, it's just drugs.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, it's fine, it's not I'm just doing drugs. This
is what acid does to you. It makes you blow
in the dark. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
So now he is looking at a possible tenure jail sentence.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
And the sentencing will be on April first, so it'll
happen after we record this.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
But before this episode.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
I have a question, Yes, did they do they know
who sent him the plutonium?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh that's a good question because like where do you
even get put?

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Like, yeah, like who's willing to ship plutonium?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, to Australia where it could infect kangaroos.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
So it says that collectors seeking a legal material created
a market that might not have otherwise existed.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
The court was total.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Black market, it really is. And they're based and they're like,
it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
That much plutonium. It's like one of the arguments, like
it's just a small quantity. But they yeah, I'm not
I'm not sure if they know where where he got
it from. It just says that he imported.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
That's crazy. Don't do that.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I mean, if you were ordering plutonium, would you first
think let me double check the laws and shipping plutonium
to my house.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Or would you just order it?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
It's with twenty four year old you. Free shipping is
Amazon Amazon Plutonium, Amazon Basics plutonium. If you're gonna order plutonium,
make sure it's tuanic Sure it's yeah, yeah, range pluto.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Oh my gosh. So we are going to move on
to Netflix and Kill where this week is a Max
and Hill. It is a Body in the Snow, the
trial of Karen Reed. Either of you been following the
Karen retroil?

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Nope, but I don't know anything about it.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
So we're gonna talk I spoiler alert, We're gonna talk
about this in depth a little bit later. But it's
this woman who is accused of basically running over her
boyfriend with her car in the middle of the night
on a snowy night after dropping him off to a
party at like two o'clock in the morning at their
friend's house. Okay, after she dropped him off, alledging that

(06:01):
she ran him over with the car and then like
went home and then came back and pretended to find.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
His body later. This is what the prosecution is alledging. Right.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
The trial is currently ongoing. She's on her second trial.
Their first trial was a mistrial, like a hung jury.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
Okay, I hate when that happens.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
It is the wildest story. But this is a very
like Michael Peterson move where she let the documentary crew
come in for the whole thing of her like preparing
with her attorneys and like going to court during the
first trial. Oh, that's really interesting, the whole thing. Well,
it is really interesting. And this is one of I

(06:38):
have a bit of a qualm with this because I'm like,
she's going to a second trial, obviously, and I feel
like releasing something like this could potentially taint a jury pool.
And I'm sure it is something they are going to
or have already addressed. Impartial, right, Oh, I see, And
I'm like, like, you.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Could have waited.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
But then I know there's a thing with like studios
they want to be the first to like because this
is the first Karen Read documentary put out there. How
does Like I said, we're going to talk about it
in depth a little bit more. This was very interesting though,
just having that the inside look in her defense and
kind of where she's coming from. And I will say
she is very personable. Okay, she is very you know,

(07:23):
convincing in a lot of ways.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
All Right, she's like, I didn't do that.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
There is Well, yeah, there's enough questions in the investigation
that it's.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Like plausible deniability.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, it's CRA's it's a crazy case.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
It is a crazy case. Yeah, so you can check
that out. It is on Max. It's called a Body
in the Snow, The Trial of Karen Reid. I definitely
would suggest it. It's five parts. I think by hour
long five I.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Believe, Yeah, one hour each, Okay, cool?

Speaker 1 (07:51):
And yes, well I don't I don't know if she
is also having them follow her during the second trial,
because why wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, I was gonna say probably so that maybe there
will be.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I haven't seen anything, yes or no either way, but like.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
There could.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
I wouldn't be surprised if there was season two when
she like had them following her during the second trial.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
So anyway you can check that.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Out, Dan, I might.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, this is part of the show where we say
content may not be appropriate for all listeners. We're gonna
be talking about a very wide a way of things
today in general, so just be it's a general a general,
a general warning.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
It's a little bloody and gross in here.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, but it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be really fun.
It's gonna be really fun because we had to do
something special for our two hundredth of sorts and those
of you that have been long time listeners of the show.
The first time we actually did this was in twenty
seventeen in episode fifty three. It was an anniversary episode,
and we did a top ten basically of our most

(09:04):
interesting cases. The cases were the most drawn to. I
always hate to say our favorites because, like I.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Know, it's kind of like, yeah, do I love this
Grizzly Murder? Yeah, right right, I mean I like it.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
I find it very interesting for specific reasons, but basically
a top ten. Yes, So we did this back in
twenty seventeen. You have never done this on the show.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
I'm a very agin and I thought it.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Would be really fun to kind of get together. Have
Wanni come join us, because you're definitely gonna know a
lot of at least a lot of mine.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh yeah, are very for sure.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
Yeah, I'm excited. I don't even know what you two have,
I know, and so it's a surprise for me too.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah. The choices are vast, like it could be anything,
and for me, having already done this a lot, I
was actually really surprised by how much of my list
had changed. Oh yeah, true, and I wasn't planning on
making as many change as I didn't.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
It was like, oh, but it's also kind.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Of interesting to see how fluid this list is because
it just changes over time. So before we get too
far into it, I wanted to ask you, Michael, it
was there like a case that sparked your interest in
true crime? Was there like one thing that was like,
this is the case that I kind of go back to.
Is the first one that really.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Aside from all the meat crimes?

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Well, yeah, besides besides meat, Like, the first big one
that I remember when I was like a child was
the John Bennet Ramsey case. Oh yes, that was like
the first big one Okay, but I remember, I.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Mean that was everywhere as a starter case.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yes, that is like I mean, yeah, it was everywhere
at that land time. Oh my gosh. So you remember,
like I remember seeing all that stuff on.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
The TV as it was. Yeah, it was going on
for like weeks. Yeah I remember that.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
I always like to ask people who come on the
show that question. Again, it's a very like the answers
that we get are very broad. Yeah, it's interesting to
see like what people's like first one was, and it
definitely depends on the age of the person too, absolutely,
because that was a very nineties nineties deal. Yeah. Okay,

(11:17):
so we I want to start off really quickly before
we get too far into it with some honorable mentions. Yes, because,
as I said, there were things from my list that
are no longer on there, but I still want to
give a little shout out. And I know you had
some things that were like, yeah, harder decisions.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
So I just mentioned one of mine make it on
my list? Really yeah? Wow. So I was such like
a kid, like I never watched like the news. I
was very like a cartoon kids. I don't remember seeing
any of the coverage like until I was older, but
I remember just being like fascinated.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, wild story, so crazy.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yes, yeah, I'm kind of I am, honestly kind of
surprised because it's I didn't know, because there is a
lot of elements to that crime that you gravitate towards,
and it's things that are like kind of conspiratorial that
are a little more like yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm
surprised she wasn't on your list. That's it's like, it's hard,

(12:25):
it's a very it's one of these like very like
mysterious cases. Yeah, one of mine, and that she was
actually this one is I was surprised myself, honestly because
this was previously number two. It is not on my
list any but I have to mention it because it
is one of my favorites Mary Vincent. Really yes, so

(12:51):
she is literally the most badass person. She was hitchhgging
across California. She catches a ride with this guy named
Lauren Singleton who raped, sodomized her. She was almost murdered.
She had her arms chopped off and was thrown over
a cliff and she's left to die, but she fucking
doesn't die. She stuffs mudd in her nubs and she

(13:14):
claps back up the fucking hill and she flags down
some passerbys cliff yes what she yeah gilded Yeah, with
her arms chopped off, and survives to face the attacker
in court.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Oh my god. Yeah yeah dude, that's a great story.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Crazy. Yeah, the court decision was kind of it was bullshit. Yeah,
it was bullshit. But it's just like like the the
indomitable human spirit, yes, yes, the power of woman. Yes,
there she was like I'm coming to take you down.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
It's just an amazing story. So I do I always
feel like I have to mention specifically because.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Like, that's a great one.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yes, yeah, did you have any other honorable mentions?

Speaker 2 (13:58):
I feel that we were mostly like I'd put one
on and then I'd be like, does the Sanlowich Childs
count is that true crimeer?

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Is that history? I'm such like a history. Honestly, I
do see it limped in with true crime a lot.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
I do too. So it was a lot of that
was things like that, like like what is it the
Roanoak mystery?

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Yeah, yeah, which honestly it's not a mystery because all
the local Native American tribes are like, no, we told
you what happened, you just didn't listen to us.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Like when they came back and they were like, look
at all of these Native children who have blonde hair
and blue eyes, and they were like, where did they
come from? The Native Americans like, yeah, they came from
Roanoak And they're like where could it be? It's a
mystery to what.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
They're telling you.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, right right, gosh, but like very that, Like it
was hard for me to be like, is this a
historical event? Is this true crime? You know?

Speaker 1 (14:48):
It's kind of like a fishy fishy fishy fishy Yes.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
So I have two other honorable mentions.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Ok.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, one of them is that's what all right? She
was not She was previously number seven on my list.
She's not on my list anymore, but she is just
like on my list. She's one of the most interesting
female serial killers, I think because she claims that she
every single one of her victims had like attempted to

(15:17):
rape her or hand raped her as a sex worker,
and everything was in self defense. And just like her
whole thing, her whole vibe.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
There's a vibe footage of her like like talking to
cameras and doing views. That's I think what makes it
so interesting is we get to see like what she
has to say. You know, I totally agree.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
She's just like, I don't know, she is just one
of them. I just find her very her whole deal
very interesting.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
I'm not saying too much because she's on my list.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Okay, I will I will not say that much more yet,
I will not say. The other one is actually Karen Reid.
We talked about her in the beginning episode. Okay, So
here's I'll give you guys just a little background. So
she's accused of murdering John O'Keeffe again. This one is
previous unlisted because this recently happened, okay, and the trial

(16:07):
is currently ongoing. I'm honestly predicting it is going to
be one of these cases that people just.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Like talk about forever. It's gonna be an obsession.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, because I don't I don't honestly know that we
will definitively get an answer to what actually happened.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
It's gonna be one of those, guys.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
So I actually am glad you brought that back up
because I have a question related to the running over. Okay,
is there only one set of tire tracks?

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (16:32):
And she knows multiple times Okay.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
So here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Here's the thing. I'll let me tell you, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
So on January twenty ninth, twenty twenty two, the body
of John O'Keeffe was discovered outside of the friends home
after he had been dropped off for a party in
the evening. They had like been out at the bar
and already drinking and decided the friends were like, come
over to our house. We're going to keep party going.
And he had been dropped off to go in and

(16:58):
like see what was going on. So he had been
dropped off by Karen Reid, his girlfriend. Reid was the
next day arrested and charged with second degree murder, manslaughter,
motor vehicle homicide, and leaving the scene of the deadly crash.
She has consistently proclaimed her innocence, and her defense team
is alleging a cover up by the Boston police because

(17:19):
her boyfriend was a Boston police officer and a lot
of these friends were Boston police officers.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
I remember this story now. Yes.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Her first trial ended in a hungury in July twenty
twenty four. The second trial is scheduled to begin in
April first, So it'll be again after we record this,
but before this episode comes out, so it will have
just started so crazy.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Definitely going to watch that.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Ye, you guys have to, because again, she is as
a person very convincing. Yeah, the things that they are
suggesting and the evidence they found, there's evidence of the
broken of a broken tail light in the car that
she was driving. But the weather that night it was
like blizzard conditions. It was crazy blizzard conditions, so like
tire tracks and stuff. The snowplow had gone by, like

(18:06):
you know, like the snowing would have covered all of
that up. When they first got there, they were because
they had to like call in a larger police I
can't remember who was the state police or like larger
police force, and to help them with the crime scene.
They were using like a snow blower to like or
a leaf flower to like blow all the snow off

(18:28):
to like find Yeah. Yeah, it's just the whole thing
is like there's a lot of elements to them, and
the police investigation was not the greatest, all right, And
her defense team is good, like they're renowned attorneys and stuff.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
I think all the time.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
No, yeah, there's not a ghost in this room, but there,
I mean, there's enough there that's like, Okay, what the
fuck is going on? There's also it Honestly, it gives
me a lot of oj because there's even these elements
of like one of the police officers in text messages
to like his buddies were like.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Oh yeah, we nabbed that bitch. She looks crazy blah blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
I'm pretty sure he calls her a cunt at one point,
like yeah, and he gets grilled in the first trial,
he got grilled about it about these text messages and
he was one of the investigating officers.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
She was being a cut You want me to do?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, I definitely suggest watching that documentary, but I do
want to I kept it as an honorable mention because
I have a feeling this is just gonna be one
of those cases that everybody is gonna be.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
It's gonna be like.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Chiming in on and ye yeah and constantly trying to
figure out like what has happened? Right, yeah, okay, anyway,
let's move on. Are you ready to move Do you
have any other mentions?

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Do you have any mentions at the top of your head? No?
Good one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're gonna dive in.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
We're gonna start with number Do you want to start
or would you like me? So you can start. I've
been chatting for you. We each have our own ten.
But what we're gonna do is we're gonna go back
and forth. We're going to count down from ten to
number one, big number one.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Number one? What was that show?

Speaker 2 (20:14):
The most extreme? Do you remember that? The most extreme?

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Wait? MC, is that what you're talking about?

Speaker 2 (20:20):
No, that's what I was saying, but that's not what
she's talking about. The Animal Planet and it was Oh yeah, Predators,
it's like really three D in extra Yeah, I love it.
They had a story version that I've been watching. It's
on like Hulu. I'm obsessed with it. I do watch
MXC at night sometimes. Most Extreme Elimination Challenge.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
That's the one that's like the Japanese physical game show
that was dubbed over by these two guys and put
on Spike.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Oh the best.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, it's really good. It's read anyway. That's a good one.
Number ten girl, Okay, number ten.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
So we were talking about this earlier, and yours are
like ranked, yes, mine or just I had so much
trouble narrowing it down. Mine are just a list. So
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Did you keep your number one? Is your number one?

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Huh?

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Like was your number one your number one?

Speaker 2 (21:04):
I don't think I have a number one.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
You just have ten. I just have ten.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Oh my god, Rachel, this.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Is so typical.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Don't yell at me. So typically it's only listening to
half the directions I listened. I just disregarded it. I
don't know, all right, No, it was just so that,
like it's hard for me to like be like I'm
more interested in this one, or like they're all so different,
you know what I mean. She's like, no, I know,

(21:33):
but I raped them. Yeah, I did the homework. We're bad. Wow,
who does homework? So my number ten, this one will
all definitely recognize is the Manson Family murders.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Okay, okay, that was one of.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
The first ones where like I as a kid was like,
oh my god, I have to learn everything I can.
Oh yeah, so interesting.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
So for those of you living under a rock, love you.

Speaker 4 (22:02):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
The Manson Family was one of the most famous cults
of the late sixties and early seventies. At its peak,
it consisted of about one hundred followers, but it had
a very close knit, like internal group okay, right, very

(22:23):
much so. So they were controlled by the leader, the
very charismatic and fucking crazy leaders Manson. I'm so insane.
I'm sorry, that's probably not nice, but I mean.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
I'm pretty sure they like found him that clinically like
crazy old like this can't be like some crazy defamation
or something.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Do you remember that he got married in prison before
he died, so he was writing him fan mail who
was like way younger, married him in prison yep, and
then he died.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yep. What did she look like?

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Crazy?

Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:56):
All right, I remember, because I was like, is she
like a babe?

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Weird?

Speaker 2 (22:59):
No, not really a babe, looks kind of like a
cult col cola.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Okay, yeah, very much yourself.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
It was me. Manson controlled a lot like One of
the things that I find so fascinating is that he
manipulated his inner circle, what they called the family, with
a combination of like psychiatry and psychoactive drugs. So he
would give them acid and LSD and break down their

(23:29):
personality systematically until it was like yes, you ever, that's yes,
until it was like you're not your own person, You're
a part of me. It would have to do what
I tell you to have sex with me and also
kill people. Great and I love Hey, it's fun. It's
like it's interesting that it's so connected to the very

(23:51):
like flower Child, Hayden Ashbury, like sixties seventies movement, but
it's this horrible dark undercurrent. Yeah, that one has just
like given me chills.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Oh my god, it's you know what. That one does
hold a little place in my heart because I was
very I still am very interested in that whole sixties
seventies counterculture movement, like the hate Ashberry and all that, like.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Woodstock, you know, Speedway.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Yeah, the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
It's all very interesting. So that definitely peaks your interest
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Am I trying to say?

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, it encompasses the spirit of the end of that
era very y.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah. It's like did you.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Did either of you ever watch Once Upon a Time
in Hollywood?

Speaker 3 (24:37):
Yes? No, it's so good. It was so sad.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Do you like Tarantino, are you? Yeah, it's a very
Latino mo Yeah, yes, but it's really good, but it's
changed the ending.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, it's basically about it's sort of about the Manson family.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Glorious bastards. I have never seen that so good maybe
so good. I remember because in that movie, Tarantino also
changes history, where like it's it's sort of presented like
this is because a lot of it is based off
of real things that happened, Like a lot of the
characters in the movie are based off of real people.

(25:15):
And it's in World War to Germany. But by the
end of the movie spoiler, like for Gloria's Bastards, it
came out like a thousand years ago doing yellowt me
they kill Hitler. They have this whole plot and they
kill Hitler. Interesting the Once upon a Time in Hollywood,
which is which it's kind of like a surprise, like
the yeahs part of the movie. You don't know what's

(25:35):
going to be about the Manson family, and then it's like, yeah,
wait is that Sharon Tate. All of a sudden, Yeah,
they're rolling up to murder Sara. It's like, I will
spoil it.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
No, no, no, it's not you should I think you
might like it. But it is very real, very Tarantino,
but it's it's really interesting.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, okay, are you.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
I don't want to like no, no, no, absolutely yeah
that that was the MANTHI.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Okay, so my number ten mine are actually ranked because.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
I know because you did your homework.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Because I did the homework, I understood the assignment. My
number ten is Michael Peterson and the staircase almost.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Ok.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
This one's about yeah, so this was not this was
previously not on my list.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
So Michael Peterson was accused of murdering his wife, Kathleen
on December ninth, two thousand and one, who was arrested,
charged and convicted in two thousand and three, but eight
years later he was granted a new trial after a
judge found the prosecution witness gave misleading testimony. He fought
these charges for a lot of years and then he
entered in Alfred plea for manslaughter, which was he was

(26:45):
sentenced to time served and then released.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
Okay, so this is.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Another case where he was accused. He continued to maintain
his innocence. His wife was found so basically they were
drinking by the pool one evening and.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
She went up to bed. He comes in, finds her
at the bottom.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Of the stairs in the basement.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
No like their bedroom was like on the upper floor,
so like on the main floor. Finds her at the
bottom of these stairs, like blood everywhere, barely breathing. Calls
nine one one, she dies on the scene and then
he was so he was accused of her murder, of
beating her to death essentially during his trial. I had

(27:32):
mentioned this earlier actually with Karen Reid, because during Michael
Peterson's trial it was made into he let this French
documentary crew come in and follow literally his whole life,
like during the first trial, and they followed him the
entire time through twenty seventeen. Wow, And the whole thing

(27:58):
was made into a mini series. You can find it
on max. It's called The Staircase. Okay, okay, This is
like the French documentary which is very interesting, really good,
and they would release.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
The chunks of the English French.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
It's in English.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
It's in English, but it just follows him and his
attorneys and everything they did in his home with his kit,
like everything. In twenty twenty two, this case came up
again because HBO released a dramatization mini series called The
Staircase that starred Colin Firth and Tony Flett. Also super

(28:33):
super good. By the way, what's very very good. But
there's a lot of facts about this case that are
like they just kind of don't seem real, you know what.
I'm saying like they're very out there.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Like the owl. Like, okay, if you want to go there.
Yeah's the owl theory.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
She got attacked by an owl on her way into
the house that scratched of her head and she died
from blood loss and fell down the stairs. I think
it's just as well as anything else I've talked about.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Blew in through the second story window and like.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
As she was walking from the pool where they were
like drinking and hanging out into the house.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
Okay, she got like attacks so she didn't fall down
the stairs.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, oh, so we don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
If she got attacked by the owl and walked up
the stairs and then had enough blood blast, she would
have fallen down the stairs.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Okay, if it's because it is.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
No, we we hardly disagree on this.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
I feel like owl's claws aren't sharp enough to cut
they fucking are?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
They are talent? Yes? Sure, I just think it's dumb.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Okay, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (29:36):
I am pro owl theory.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
I'm very pro.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Friend he had like millions of years ago who also
fell down the stairs and died. Was okay, so hold on,
let me let me get there.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, this has happened before.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
So there's a lot to this case. It was actually
his first wife. It was his first wife.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
In Germany, had kind of she like also felt fell
down the stairs in very similar circumstances, but at the
time they were also like not really investigated. So there's
that there's like his sort of secret gay escapades that
were sort of like brought to light and this question

(30:14):
of whether Kathleen knew and was allowing it. Yeah, they
took his computer and like found a lot of gay
porn and he said he's openly bisexual. He was a novelist,
like he like, I don't know, Like there's a lot
to this case. It's like kind of weird because then
it was a big question whether she knew that he

(30:35):
was like out having these affairs with men and if
that was like a point of contention in their marriage.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Maybe an affair with the owl.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Oh my god, Oh my god. Yeah, there's also like
the whole thing with his relationship with one of the
French It was like the editor of the of the
French documentary. Yeah, she like was editing the film the
way they portrayed in the mini series. She was like
editing the film and sort of fell in love with
him and they but they in real life they did

(31:06):
kind of like get together in the middle.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Of the first part.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah yeah, yeah, they're not together anymore. But I just
think this is a very perfect example of we're never
gonna know, like what really happened, Like I know, there's
so many questions, so they're honestly, but like there is
enough things that.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
You're against the owl theory. What theory are you for?

Speaker 1 (31:29):
I think that he killed yes, okay, just checking.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
I think it's one of those like Okham's razor things
to me where I'm like that kind of here, this
has already happened to him. He's like a dick just
having all these affairs, which like whatever, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
I do very I do honestly, Land you always works,
I do honestly, Land in the I am not sure, no, totally,
like I am not sure one.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Way or the other. That's a super yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Do you want to do your number nine?

Speaker 2 (31:59):
I'll do my number nine. Oh my god, eleven eleven
make a gosh, Okay, my number nine is another kind
of famous, kind of historical one, and this one is
going to be Bunnie and Clyde.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Oh okayed, Bonnie Elizabeth Parker and Clyde Chestnut Barrow. It
was that like a nickname or was this his actual
middle that's his middle name, Chestnut Chestnut.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
To say it was like an old West Actually.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Is it Joey Chestnut?

Speaker 1 (32:32):
The other chestnut?

Speaker 2 (32:34):
What the food eater? The food guy?

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Am I right?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Ches like a mobster? I know she's a chestnut.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
He is an award winning American competitive eater. He always wins.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Thet he always wins the naightth that's hot dog eating
Joey chestnut guy.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yes, is he from the Deep South to joe Chestnut?

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Bes Ah, that is so cute.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
No, he's from California.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Oh, oh my god, where they eat hot dogs?

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Love that anyway, Obviously we know Bonnie and Clyde. They
were American outlaws who traveled with their gang during the
Great Depression, robbing, killing people, robbing banks, busting each other
out of prison. Yeah. Yeah, it was just like a

(33:28):
little Roman there's a way to unwind after word. Yeah.
They were ambushed by police and killed eventually in Beyondville, Louisiana.
Beyond Ville it's like b I E N. So it
might be Bienville. Oh oh, I just researched something that
happened there.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
We know.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
I love when that happens where it's like.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
I think for a future episode. I'm pretty sure anyway,
keep going well pronounced correctly. That's where they were killed.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
I think that, like the crime itself is super interesting,
but the news attention around it, like how crazy. Like
when they were killed, they were they put like the
car with their bodies in it, like on the back
of a like I think a truck, and like paraded
it through. People were running and grabbing pieces of her hair,

(34:17):
pieces of her dress.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
There was at a time where that was not uncommon though,
because we've definitely covered cases where there was like a
murder in the house and people from the neighborhood were
like showing up and like I'm gonna take a spoon,
or like go in and and grab like a chunk
of clothing, or like yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
The car is crazy on display, like bullet riddled, you
can still blood. It's like super morbid, like the morbid fascination.
And then the fact that that so I love a
good anti hero folk hero. These were not them, but
that was definitely the public perception. Listen, you and I, Vicky,

(34:54):
are I feel on different sides of respecting the law,
not different sides of the law. Yeah, don't all no, no no,
But like I love like, I get like the whole
Jesse James thing, and especially like in the Great Depression
when nobody had any money, and I get the like
rebellious factor of it.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
And it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
But they were dicks, killed people for no reason. Yea,
they sucked, And I love the whole thing. People tend
to assume that Clyde was the leader. If you look
into it, it was very clearly Bonnie Bonnie planned most
of their heights. Who run the world. Squirrels, squirrels, chances, chousness.

(35:34):
I like such like an old Westy crime. Right when
the media was starting to like get huge. They were
so crazy.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Absolutely, I love that very everything was like sensational.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
It was very sensational, and it's sort of like continued
to this day as like, and it's interesting what it
like represents to different people. There's also a Broadway musical
like I canceled.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
It was okay, what was it called?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Buddy and Clyde, Oh, well, dad bad? It had Laura
Osma's It's not bad.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
I don't know who that is. She was Cinderella in
Cinderella the movie No.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
On Bad Way. You know Mardlers Nerdlers he as sue me. Yeah,
that's a good one. I was a kid, I was like, oh,
buddy and Clyde pew Pe.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
I know you're into that whole sort of like Western
gangster I have to be.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Are you Are you into that at all?

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Wanney the Western? Yeah, yeah, you know, a very niche
not really but like me neither. I'm aware of them
at the same time.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
You know what that's because your dad is very into Western. Yeah,
maybe it was too much when you were a kid
and you're like anti Western.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Now I'm not anti Western. I am not pro Western.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
It's very particular. I used to I had a theater
job where I worked in a It's gone now but
it was an Old West themed.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Oh yeah, We've talked about this on the show.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
So it's like in my blood forever. I was just
talking to one of my coworkers the other day because
they used to play the soundtrack of the park very uh.
They did not own the rights, but they would play
old like Marty Robins songs, very like Cowboy kind of,
And I was looking it up for her the other
day because she's like who's sang those songs? Yeah, it's
so nostalgic, very Red Dead, No, thank you, Yeah, I

(37:28):
do like Red Dad though.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
It's so good.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
The horse.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
I can't even tell you how many times I've seen
her just run into objects and Red Dead it's.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
So true, like terrrse, I'm terrible at it.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
They were in her way.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
She killed herself running into a telephone one. Yeah, I
definitely did do that. That's it happened. I'm not a
master video, okay, I'd never.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Claimed to be a pro. Mechanics are hard, all right.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
So we're gonna move on to my number nine, previously
my number ten. Ooh, John Wayne Gacy.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
I knew this would be on there. Yeah, such a
good choice.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
This has always been one that I've been interested in.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
It's local for us.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
It was the first like major research paper I did
in high school in Peter's class. Oh, mister Peter, Yeah,
you got to do research paper like first thing freshman year.
And I didn't mind.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
John Wayne Casey.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yeah, So if you're not I'm not gonna go like.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Super into death. But if you're not familiar, John Wayne
Gacy was a serial killer who raped, sexually assaulted and
tortured at least thirty three young men and boys between
nineteen seventy two and nineteen seventy eight in Cook County, Illinois.
He stored a majority of the bodies in the caral
space of his house. He's most well known as Pogo

(39:02):
the Clown, wearing the clown costume at children's parties and
end razors. Yeah it's not great. Much of his artwork
also made a splash on the murderabilia market.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
What do you get?

Speaker 1 (39:16):
You got?

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I have a way up? So this is I don't
this is like just a thing. I watched a video
where a guy who was like a former corrections officer
at the prison where he stayed, one of the prisons
where he stayed, who claimed that he never painted one
of those pictures. He paid other inmates to paint those
pictures for him so that he could sell them.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I'm pretty sure he painted some, but like, yeah, he
definitely was contracting.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Was like it was like a factory. Like he was
just like, oh, yeah, get those and then you can
have a percentage. Like he was a businessman.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, And how many of us have like I feel
like we have between the three of us, have talked
to so many people that were like, oh, my aunt
or my mom's friend, like live next.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Door three degrees of yeaperation.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah. I worked with the guy one time who mom
had like been pen pals with him. Oh wow, and
had he had like sent her this stuff but whoa
which I'm like, I don't need that.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
In my life.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
No, no, no, no, no no no.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
I worked with a guy I never got to talk to.
I wouldn't know what to say. But somebody told me
once that an elderly man in a place where I
worked around here, his brother was one of the victims.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yeah ship, And I was like, oh, she was like, you.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Should ask him about it. I'm like, no, that's crazy,
that's okay.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
I think I will.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
That's okay.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
That's a pretty big that's a pretty big ask. Oh
how are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (40:39):
So well, my brother was killed by John I Guessey.
What do you want to tell me about that? About that?

Speaker 3 (40:45):
With a pen and paper? Tell me, do you mind
if I record.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
This because I please.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Sign this river?

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Oh my god? Right, yeah, and so it's touched like
so many lives around here.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, I will say.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
He was to death in March of nineteen eighty. He
spent fourteen years on death row. He's put to death
by lethal injection at Statesville Correctional Center. And oh, I'm
sorry it wasn't. He was sentenced to death in nineteen
eighty He was put to death in nineteen eighty four.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
The last update that I have, and this might have changed,
is that in July twenty seventeen, investigators used DNA evidence
to identify one of the seven remaining unidentified bodies as
sixteen year old James Byron Hackenson. He is a missing
boy from Saint Paul, Minnesota. I think there may have.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Been one or two more since then. Oh, really that
they've been able to identify a time, Yeah, I mean
there were so.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
Many, Like he threw people in the river, they were
like buried in his backyard and yeah right too.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, it was not just the Carl space as a
lot of people had originally thought. His final words before
his execution were kissed my ass.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
Hmm.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Anyway, that's but that is like, that's almost one that
like sparked my interest. That was really the first one
that I did like research into.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, Rachel, Hi, so mine.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
My her texting? I just want to say I'm not
I'm looking at my school.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
She was just looking at Redda.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
I'm not a lie.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
I'm such a little shit.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Stir today you are. We bring out the worst in her.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
I've been watching a lot of housewives, and I think
you need to be the villain of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
I want to do that. I want to do that,
be the villain. I'll be the villain. No, it's the villain.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
We don't need a villain. It's okay, we don't need
a villain. I don't know what I did do, but
I'll take a pino gratio.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
My next one, Well, we already talked about her, so
I'll do Eileen Warnos.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
You can say who was your next one.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
I didn't rank them, I know, but who did?

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Who was the one that you skipped over?

Speaker 2 (42:56):
It's fine if we have magic one Anthony. We don't
talk about her, no, I know. Oh we already talked
about Eileen. So I was like, we'll just do her name.
Oh oh I see, I see, yeah, Okay, okay, uh cool,
I'll do Okay, Anthony, you do whatever order you want
to do it.

Speaker 4 (43:14):
And Rachel don't let me, don't let me. I feel
like you should save your favorite one for last year.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
You should save your favorite one for yeah. Okay, okay,
don't let me change your mind a.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Pin in it. You can't. I'm a little tired today.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
The case of Casey Anthony. I feel like that, you know,
I really want to call it the case of Kaylee Anthony.
Who is the child? Casey Anthony is the mother, But
really this is about Kaylee. Yeah, and I feel like
this case has been super relevant recently.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Did you see she got a TikTok? So can you
just like give me a thirty second reflect.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
On the absolutely?

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Absolutely I can't.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Kaylee Maurriy Anthony was little toddler in Florida. Her mom,
Casey Anthony, was a dicky Okay, Kaylee? Yeah yeah, just
living her life getting tattoos. On July fifteenth, two thousand
and eight, Kaylee's grandmother reported her missing, and then it

(44:17):
turned out that she had already been missing for like
a month. Oh shit, and Casey had not called the police.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
Okay, this is not the story I thought it was.
I'm glad I asked, I'm glad I said something.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
She had not seen the child for thirty one days.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Casey fully lied to the police not only about that,
but like she at one point they were like, okay,
let's figure out, like what your life's about. Where do
you work, Casey? And she was like, I work for
Universal Studios and they were like, that's sick.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
We'll go.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
So they called Universal Studios and they were like, she
does not fucking work here. Oh, and then she took
the police two Universal Studios and was like, I'll introduce
you to all my coworkers. It was just kind of
like like running around and then she's like, so weird
work here. So she lied about that. She lied about
like they were like, so where was the child? She

(45:07):
was like, she was with a nanny, and they were like,
what was the nanny's name, And she's like, sanny Anny.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
The nanny Zannyanny, which by the way, is the street
name for the drug xanax.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yes, what many people believe is what happened. She would,
according to many people that knew her, she would drug
the child to go out to go party.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
So it's like she's with Zanny the nanny. She's asleep
in the trunk of my car. In the trunk which
is where they found evidence of human remains. They eventually
found Kaylee. It's like I watched because it's been so popular. Yeah,
talk recently. I think I said it to you. I
watched somebody went on Google Earth and showed like where

(45:50):
their actual house was and then where Kaylee's body was found.
It took like two minutes to get you could walk there.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
So there was all kinds of stuff that came about it.
She ended up she never admitted anything. She ended up
accusing her father at one point that he did this.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
He did not do it.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
The poor grandparents the whole time of trying to find
the child. Right, her and her parents do not have
a good relationship. They did no relationship. Now they did
an interview kind of recently where they were like, well,
we think that that she killed her and put her
in the car very much like she did it. Yeah,
And it was sad because they tried to support her
through a lot of the court and she just made

(46:31):
herself unsupported out here. Lion.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yeah, this is one of those cases where like so frustrated,
committed to being.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Impartial, probably should be this one. I'm just like, how
could anyone it was? And I say this very rarely
because I am not a legal eagle, like you, this
was a bungle. This is the court did nothing. What
was the verdict of the court not guilty?

Speaker 3 (46:56):
Really was And then she became really good friends with O. J.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Sipson after he got out of jail and they were like,
we're trying to be out here people falsely accused. Then
he died and then she got a TikTok and she's like,
I'm here on TikTok as a legal advocate. I've been
active in the legal field for twelve years.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
That's my favorite part is like she was like, yeah,
I've been I've been illegal I've heard for twelve years.
But when she said it started, she wasn't a legal advocate.
She was in court for murdering her daughter. Yeah, I'm like,
that's not the same beyond she was murder being in
the legal system. You and I lie on my resume.
Yeah right, I worked in the legal system.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
She's trying too to talk now. So she was found
not guilty of murder, correct?

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Was she found guilty of like other things?

Speaker 2 (47:42):
No?

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Yeah, they just kind of crazy. Yep, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
It's crazy Florida.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, indeed, And like that's such a huge case but
it like, I think about that every day.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
I get so many you're searching chloroform on your mom's computer.
You get the hell out of here.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yeah, yeah, dude, it wasn't good.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
It wasn't Anthony.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
So what are we?

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I mean, it's kind of the same name, fucking Casey Anthony. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
So we are on number eight, my number eight. This
is previously my number nine.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
What's gone up?

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Andrea Yates? I knew it, Andrea Yates.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
I know, I'm like very predictable, but that's a good one.
If John Wayne Gacy was like the first little dip
into the into the true crime pool, Andrea Yates is
the second. So the following year, after Freshman English, we
had to do another Raser favor, and I decided to
do mine on Andrea. Yeah. So she she lived in Houston, Texas.

(48:59):
She was the mother of children. She had been treated
for postpartum depression and psychosis, and then after the birth
of her fifth child, she seemed to fall deeper into
this depression. There's also these religious aspects to the case
where yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
Her.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Her Andrea and her husband Rusty were followers of this
preacher named Michael Peter Warreneki who was like Christian.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yes, ok, but like crazy like yeah okay, yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I don't think they were like End Times revelationists, but
they were.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
It's like that I'm saying, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Like if you do bad stuff, you're gonna go to
Hell immediately.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think. I think it
was one of those skirts only for the girls.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Households too, like that type of gender norms.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, like very very extreme hard beliefs.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
On June twentieth, two thousand and one, in between her
husband leaving for work and her mother in law coming over,
Andrea Yates drowned all five of her children in a bathtub.
She was initially convicted of first deary murder with the
sentence of life with parole in two thousand and two,
but in two thousand and six, a Texas Court of
Appeals reversed that decision and instead found her not guilty
by reason of insanity, and she is living the remainder

(50:18):
of her days at Carrieville State Hospital in Careville, Texas.
So she's just gonna be basically institutionalized, yeah, for the
rest of her life.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Yeah, it's really sad.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Sorry, no, no, no, I've heard that she's on anti
psychotics in jail, which is so it's so sad to
me because it's like, now she knows what she's done
and she has to live with it. And I don't
think it was her fault.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Yeah, I don't think it's It's a really tough one
because she definitely was in like a psychosis, but like
it sounds like it, yeah, yeah, And there was there
was these mounting tensions in her marriage and like hate
her husband.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
If he has no haters, I'm dead. Let me take
my wife who is suffering out of her house and
move us all into a bus with her five children goodbye.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
And the doctor was like, don't have any more children.
He was like no again more children now?

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Oh my god. Yeah. Basically pregnant with the sixth when murdered.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
No, she just kept now, okay, host part of the
depression and psychosis and stuff, all of those like pregnancy
related they just get worse if you have more children.
We have someone who has kids here.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
I need to know this stuff. You're the parenting child experts.
I have been fertile, yes, a little, just a.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Little, a little, yeah, but yeah, that's my number eight.
She was like the second That was the second case
that I that's a fascinating in high school at like
seventy the Christian girls, Christian girl drowning her kids. Yeah no,
it's uh sorry to my English teachers, I was probably
a weird teenager, like, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Yeah, I wasn't talking about her, I was talking about you.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
No, I was just talking about me. I said, I
was probably a weird kid. Probably.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
They probably thought it was so fucking weird.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah, is this number eight or seven?

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Seven? Seven?

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Yeah, number seven, number seven is we already mentioned her,
but I could not do any list without mentioning my girl,
Allen Warnho, Yes, yes, I agree.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
My god.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
She was born February twenty ninth, nineteen fifty six, and
she was a prostitute. She had a horrific, horrific upbringing,
very very bad, to the point where when she was
nine and ten, she was being like a prostitute on
the school grounds, like for cigarettes and for money. She

(52:50):
was sleeping in the woods. Every adult man in her
life offended against her, and she just sort of naturally
led into prostitution. She had no ed, she didn't know
what to do, and she ended up how many was
it seven? Yeah, shot and robbed seven of her male

(53:10):
clients on the streets of Florida. She was convicted of
the murders and sentenced to death by lethal injection. I
think she also spent what was it, yeah, ten years
on death row. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, and she did a lot of interviews in that time.
But there's a lot and there was a whole thing
about her getting adopted I think too by like in
her Yeah, there was like this couple that had adopted.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Her in her like you know, thirties or forties, or
they were trying to take care of her.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
Yeah, that's a man.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
It's a wild will argue about that case. I believe
her well, because I believe her about what I think
that all of those men offended against her.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
I don't disagree.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah, I don't disagree, But I argued about it before.
Maybe we didn't. No, we've argued about a lot of cases.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
We have about a lot of Yeah, I don't disagree,
though I do think they likely offended against her.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
That case makes me so upset. I'm so upset because
I'm just like.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
I feel her free. That's given her a gun, that's
what I.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Feel like, keep going No, I like, is it a loss? No?

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Here's the thing is like, I I'm never gonna endorse murder.
And I agree with it as a resolution to any problem.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Fundamentally, I agree with you, Michael. But realistically, I'm like,
why could they not have helped her? I'm like, and
she definitely did have some mental health things that needed
to be dealt with, for surely her case is really
indicative of a failure of the system, and then they're

(54:53):
punishing her for it. Well, what was she supposed to do? Like,
if you've ever seen failure, I completely agree. I'm like,
what what could she have done? What could she have done?
If you've ever seen the movie Oscar winning Monster with.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
I have not actually seen that, I need to good.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Yeah, it really showed like she was actively like trying
to get a job, like trying to fit, but she
just had no idea. She didn't have a social Security number,
shed have all this. She just didn't know what to do. Yeah. Yeah,
And I think that even if and I'm not I'm
not trying to be a jerk, maybe some of these
seven men were delightful and kind, but I think that

(55:32):
she was put in a bad situation. She had all
of these mental health issues, but everyone had offended against her.
She may have believed it to be the case maybe
all of I think at least a few of them
absolutely tried to hurt her and she was like, get shot.
I don't know, but I think that she was put
in this position where she couldn't differentiate between and she.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Did have a very like deep haatriod of men. And
I'm not saying that isn't justified. I'm saying that wasn't
justified for her, but like, yeah, yeah, I just there's
a lot to it. That's like there's a there's a
lot of extenuating circumstances that really just like.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
An onion, there's so much new one.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, that's a crazy I will always I
just feel so sorry for her.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Do you know her final words?

Speaker 3 (56:18):
I have them, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
I'm going like, I'm going up to the Mothership and
I'm going to come back like Independence Day. Very I
mean that's pretty close.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Yes, I would just like to say I'm sailing with
the rock and I'll be back like Independence Day with
Jesus June six, like the movie Big mother Ship and
all I'll be back.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
So I'll be back. Did she mean like the rock, Dwayne,
Like she's coming back with the Rock and God? Is
that what she's saying?

Speaker 1 (56:47):
You know, I think it's more to be like a
Rock of Christ reference to Yeah, a lot of people
this is this is my theory.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
This is my sneaky little theory about the whole thing
is a lot of people are like, she says all
of these outlandish things, and she'll say all these crazy
things on trial. And I do not think that she
was crazy in that sense of where she's like, I'm
gonna come back. No, No, I think that she was
playing it up because something I didn't mention is she
committed a lot of these crimes with her girlfriend. Yeah, okay,

(57:19):
And I think that the girlfriend probably did a little
more and was a little more aware of what was
going on. But she was the only person who had
ever treated Eileen with kindness and love, even though she
turned on her in the end bitchy.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
So she's like protecting I think that she was protecting her.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
I think that she had nothing to live for without
like her love, and you know, she's in trouble, so
she's like, well just.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Kill me anyway.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
That I think it was very that so I think
she would say outlandish things on purpose, which really makes
me sad. It's sad to watch, like once she knows
that Tig turned on her, there's such a change in
her behavior where she's like, I'm requesting the death penalty. Yeah,
just take me out back and she me and it's like, well,
obviously you're sad. Yeah, but she's sad.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
It's sad.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
I'm sad.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
I don't endorse the murder, though, I'm just going to
put that out there.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
That's good. No, definitely not a toursing burden. But I
think it's under as.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
Soon as I heard that.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
It's a little contentious up in here. Honestly, it's just
a little I still love you, girl, Yeah, I love you.
It will box afterwards. We'll have a little fight on
the So we are on number seven, number six, I
believe No, you just did number seven, number yeah, you're left? Yes,

(58:39):
so my number seven previously number eight? Uh is Bernie
made off?

Speaker 3 (58:45):
Okay, all right, that's white color crime.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
There has to be white collar I was gonna say,
how many of these are going to be legal? I
love it? Yes, there is.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Listen, I have just like a little affinity in my
heart for white color crime because people are out here
trying to scam. They do be sam scammers, be scamming. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Yeah, he was market scams, right, is that?

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Ye?

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Yes, yeah, like stock market and investment scams. And honestly,
like you cannot even talk about modern day fraudsters almost
without bringing up Bernie Madoff.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
He's like the og.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Scam fraudster.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Yes, yeah, yeah, And I've heard his name come up
a lot in comparison to Elizabeth Holmes. Yeah, yeah, and yeah,
it's crazy. So there's so much to the story. And
because frankly, I am not a financial person, which corrects me,
you think by like now would by now I would
have learned some of these things to understand white color

(59:47):
crime better. Yo, I don't know finances. I don't know
how this.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Works to explain to me every week, I know, I know.
So the highlights.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Made Off is a former non eg executive chairman of
the NASDAQ Stock Market, stockbroker, investment advisor, financier, and owner
of Bernard el Madoff Investment Securities. He's also the confessed
operator of the largest Ponzi scheme in world history and
the largest financial fraud in US history and an estimated

(01:00:18):
sixty four point eight billion dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
WHOA, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Now that may have changed. I forgot to double check,
but it was. It's definitely one of the art.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
There absolutely largest Ponzi scheme in the world, that's in
world history.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Yeah, that's crazy, that's ponzi.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
On March twelfth, two thousand and nine, he pled guilty
to eleven federal felonies, including securities fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud,
money laundering, making false statements, perjury, theft from an employee
benefit plan, and making false filings with the FEC.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
They frowned on that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
They frown on that. He was sent to one hundred
and fifty years in prison.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
And he had to forfeit seventeen point one seventy nine
billion in assets. Wow. He was incarcerated at Butner Federal
Correctional Institution and he had a projected release date of
twenty one thirty nine. But in April twenty twenty one,
he died while in custody. He didn't make it. He

(01:01:19):
did not.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
I thought you were going to say he got released
for good behavior.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
There, No, definitely not.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
He died from chronic kidney disease. Okay, I mean he
was not a young guy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
He wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
If you want to know more, I definitely recommend listening
to a podcast called Ponzi Supernova, and I think there
is also a made off documentary on like Netflix. Okay,
that was pretty good. If I remember correctly, this is
just again he's like the og Ponzi scheme doing it
big time. He did so much fucking damage to his

(01:01:54):
family and his relationship. He had a son that committed suicide.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, I'm like ninety five percent sure that's accurate. In
the wake of all of this, I would yeah, yeah,
it was like massive, massive fucking fraud.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
But also it is massive fraud, right, but like they
literally threw the book at him and gave him one
hundred and fifty years. I was going to say four
financial crimes, right. But on the other hand, there were
these people that he was builking out of money that
were like elderly, regular people trying to invest their money,

(01:02:34):
so like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
That are not At the time, it was like a
pretty prestigious firm if I remember correctly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Yeah, yeah, well he told everybody it was like squeaky
clean for people.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Yeah, it sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Yeah, so a lot of doe.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
This is I always with financial crimes and white collar
crimes and stuff. The sentencing is the thing. I always
A lot of the times, I'm like, I feel like
the sentence should be more like typically, I'm like, I
wish they would have gotten a longer time because financial
clients are serious and a lot of times.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Because it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
And most of the time it's like seven years, right years?

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Yeah, oh great, so what And I do feel like
a lot of these hit people who are older and
you know, just to have good intentions with trying to
invest money or whatever, but like it tends to hit
just like average people. In this case though, like one
hundred and fifty years.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Yeah. Wait was it a state case or was it
a federal case? Maybe that's why.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Yeah, Oh, I think they wanted to make an example
out of him too, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Oh a thousand percent, one thousand percent on thousand percent,
but I I don't know, just one hundred six anyway,
that was my number seven, Yes, number six.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Number six.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
This one's the one that I think you'll know about it.
I don't know, it's like a little little have you
known A lot.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Of these are No, we are almost recognized a majority
of them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Okay, A lot of times it's like the like will
hear the name and I'm like, I swear to God,
and then I'm like, that's a completely different one.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Thought Anthony one was not the one I was thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
It was, Well, do you know what the one you
were thinking?

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
It was?

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
Like, I think it was like a family on vacation
and the adults were like outside eating dinner at like
the kid.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Got McCann that's Madeline m Yes, yeah, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
The one I was thinking of. The casey Anthony one. Yeah,
that's that's an interesting case too. God, I didn't even
think about that. Now I feel like I need to know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
I revise my listen because she was almost I think
that's crazy her lot. But a lot of my thoughts
are more on the realm of conspiracy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Theory, of course they are.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Whatever. My number six is going to be the case
of Terry Joe Duperault, who was named the Sea Orphan.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Okay, I know that last name sounds so familiarn know it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Eleven year old Terry Joe Duperol and her family, her mother,
her father, and two of her siblings rented a ship
called the Bluebell out of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and we're
going to go on like a nice cruise with this
super nice and cool captain Julian Harvey and his wife.

(01:05:23):
They were like, yeah, this is all like super fun.
We just don't know how to sale. So we're getting
this captain.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
It's all coming back to me. Now, Okay, did you
cover this on the show where I did not? We
might have covered this, I think I would previously. You
might have covered this one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
I'm sure you have. The photograph that comes out of
this is like a super super well known photograph. Okay,
So I'm sorry, I got you. I'm ever on track.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
We're lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
I'm awake. On November twelfth, nineteen sixty one, poor eleven
year old Terry woke up after a normal night at
sea to her members of her family had been killed.
There was this whole scuffle on the deck where she
was like, there must have been some incident. I don't

(01:06:10):
know what's happening. She's trying to help the captain who's like, here,
let me help you. We have to we have to
evacuate this boat. Hold onto the rope for the lifeboat,
but she was lemon and confused, and she let go
of the rope and he dove in after the boat
and left her on the boat. So he escaped and
left her. Of course, spoiler layer, turns out he killed

(01:06:33):
everyone on board except for her. He had like it's
kind of weird. He had like pointed the gun at
her and then pointed it away, and like, I think
he just kind of figured she would drown. But there
was another there was like a like a little jetty
that she was able to get on.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
Sin. Yes, after he killed them all, Yes, okay, so.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
He was doing it for money and because he was
a douche. But then three days later.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Wait, did he kill his wife too?

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
What, Yes, he did killed everybody and they were like
they were children, like the little It was so so sad,
and they when they found him, he was on the
lifeboat with the body of one of the children. He
was like, I found her and Lota bringing her back,
and he was trying really hard to fool everybody to
be like, oh my god, we got attacked blah blah
blah blah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Yeah, oh no, and then they.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Uh, I think a cruise ship saw her. The little
girl floating in the middle of the ocean. Wow, like
who are you? And she was so shell shocked that
she couldn't I don't think she could speak for a
little while. So they were just like, well, come on board,
then we'll figure it out. And when she eventually told

(01:07:45):
he was about to be convicted and he killed himself,
but uh, well this is just like a little thing.
So he uh was in interrogation because they were like,
this is kind of weird. When he was in interrogation,
that's when they found Terry Joe and she was able
to tell like he actually killed everybody. It was not
like a sea accident. His response was to exclaim, oh

(01:08:06):
my god, before quickly and calmly adding isn't that wonderful?
And then where he drove to his house and killed himself.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
But so she survived. I believe she wrote a book,
but like, there's such a wild story, so wild. One
of them snapped a picture of just like this tiny
little girl, just like floating on this little thing in
the middle of the ocean. I remember seeing that picture
in a book like when I was little and being
like what And so they call her the sea orphan,

(01:08:36):
which is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Like, yeah, it is one of these like iconic like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
See, let me get it, let me get it. I
thought I did, but now I can't find it. Where
is that picture?

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
You can probably get up on your mic a little
bit better, Rachel, Oh, sorry, it's okay, or move it back.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Look at that little tiny chirld been there for three days, rainwater,
She couldn't eat anything, and she if she I know
that she did a lot of interviews. I'm not sure
if like she wrote the book or if there's just
like books about her experience. But it is interesting how
she talks about how she survived, like luckily it was

(01:09:19):
only three days and the weather wasn't super extreme. But
there is this sort of like sort of non specific
spirituality where she's like, I felt like something was keeping
me alive. And I'm like that's really I'm like, well, dang,
I wouldn't have lived, girl.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
Yeah, I would have been so bored. I would have
three ocean I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Love that your concern is I would be so bored.
She's like, oh, man, I should have grabbed my chest set.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
Fuck, I got nothing to do. There would be no
Wi Fi name, No, it's okay, my phone has satellite now.
Oh okay, okay, text.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
My number six case that we've talked about many, many times,
and this is not a change from last time. Kept
in the same spot, Robert Urst.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Yeah, yep, I knew. I thought that this morning.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
I know, I know, such a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Yeah, and there's have you seen the Jinks?

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
The Jinks? I don't think so?

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
Okay, so should on your list of watch is already
so expansive.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
I know, dude, this is all your fault.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
Yeah, I know, I know, but that was like the
Jinks really came out of TV Guide. I kind of
didn't even remember that. I literally watched like eight hours
of TV a day while I'm working from home, so I.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Watched children's TV. Yeah, because I have to, I know,
So I feel sorry for me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
The Jinx came out at a time. It's a documentary
on Max. It came out at a time that like
the true crime genre genre was really like on the
upward incline. Yeah, this was like Cereal had just come
out at that time, like the podcast are really starting
to kick off, and the Jinx was like one of

(01:11:17):
these documentaries that Max put out that was really like
put them on the map as far as high production value,
good engaging content, so I definitely recommend it. But there's
a ton of incredibly interesting aspects to this guy, Robert Durst.
He's been suspected in the murders and disappearances of at

(01:11:40):
least three people, Oh wow. The first being his wife,
Kathleen McCormick Durst. She disappeared in nineteen eighty two under
very suspicious circumstances. They did an investigation, but she has
never been found and nobody had been charged in that.
Kathleen's family, of course believed that Robert Durst is the culprit,
and there's a lot of evidence that point to this direction,

(01:12:02):
but they hadn't filed charges at all. Then, more recently,
he was charged with the okay, so he was charged
as a result of the jinks being on HBO. He
was charged in the murder of his like friend and confidant,

(01:12:24):
Susan Berman because of the hot mic moment Hot moment.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
Yes, okay, yes, this guy you've told me about the series.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
I talked about him all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
It's such a crazy crazy and that that specifically is
like oh hot mic, like that set the tone for
hot bike moments.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Yes, yeah, so he amateur. She was murdered in December
two thousand and he uh got charged. I know, isn't
that sad? Yeah, he got charged and was convicted.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
In twenty twenty one. So he got to have Christmas,
a lot of them, many of them. He's a in fact,
twenty one years of Christmases.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
I hope he didn't get anything.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Yeah, So this was like when when we when I
first talked about this in episode fifty three, again, that
was twenty seventeen, so this was like an ongoing case.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
Okay. Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
In all of this, the most legally interesting one is
the murder and dismemberment of Morris Blacky. Durst was actually
arrested in this case. He was charged with murder. He
was arrested after they found Morse Black's body parts floating
in Galveston Bay.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
But during that's some evidence.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Yeah. During the trial he claimed self defense, saying that
they had gotten into an argument and an ument I need.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
To chop this dude up.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
That's what innocent people do. Well, he was not charged
with dismembering the body, that's that's not the charge. He
was charged with murder.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
What happened after the murder is not what he was
standing trial for. So he was found not guilty.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
Oh, yes, of murder, yes, which he did.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
He like fully admitted to dismembering the body. He's like, yeah,
I did that, but it's because I shot him in
self defense and I got like nervous.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
I know I would be more nervous to cut somebody up,
which again makes it the most interesting legally because like they.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
Didn't see how like the self defense thing would be
argued like against the murder charge, but what was the
intent with the chopping up the body?

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Right, it doesn't matter. He wasn't on trial for for like,
desecration of a corpse is a different charge than sneaky murder.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:15:03):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
So anyway, so all of these things have been happening
around him. He's also like the son of these churches.
He's also he's the son of a real estate mogul,
so he's like crazy wealthy. Anyway, So since I wrote
all of that originally, like I said, he was charging
convicted in Susan Burman's murder in twenty twenty one. Okay,
he had already been found not guilty in Morris Black's

(01:15:24):
murder and then shortly after he got a life in
prison sentence for Susan Burman. Shortly after that, they charged
him with Kathleen's murder in twenty twenty two, the very
first person in his orbit that went missing. Okay, and
they still have not found her body.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Really so crazy to this day they haven't found not.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
But unfortunately he died before he was able to stand trial. Yeah,
in so he was charged in twenty twenty two. It
was like not long after that he died and again
a legally frot thing because he had not run out
the appeals on the Susan Berman conviction. That conviction was

(01:16:09):
actually vacated.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
Crazy really yes, when he died wow, yead.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Damn legal stuff. Basically he died getting away with everything, yep,
which is insane to me, especially because it's like this
crazy like he obviously admitted to it, right and it's
like he right faced any so crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Yes, Yeah, so I definitely recommend that now he they
have done a season two on like the Susan Burman trial,
what happened after the documentary because he like went on
the run and then was arrested in a hotel room
with a bunch of guns.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
Again, that's bad.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
That's what a normal yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
And also by the way, he's like good friends with
this guy who sat on the jury and the Morris
Black Games, who's like bringing him. He's like bringing him
things in the hotel room.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Have you watched season two? I know you said you watched.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Season the first one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
I haven't seen ye season two. It's like it's just
a lot. It's lot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Would recommend the rides along the highway.

Speaker 4 (01:17:03):
I have to say, wear it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
It was as if a wave of people washed over.
It was town together to sell the wear it in
some form or another. M

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Episode 200: Part 1 - Chestnut

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 200: Part 1 - Chestnut