Episode 200: Part 2 - Car Phone

This is part 2 of our 200th episode extravaganza!

Two hundred episodes! We've journeyed through countless cases of darkness, mystery, and the truly unbelievable. To celebrate this milestone, join us as we return to the countdown you've all been waiting for: our definitive Top Ten crimes of all time. These cases have stuck with us, the ones that burrowed under our skin and continue to fascinate and disturb in equal measure. From shocking betrayals to baffling disappearances and the pure embodiment of evil, we'll revisit the details, the impact, and why these ten cases have earned a permanent spot in our true crime consciousness. Get ready for a rollercoaster of emotions as we delve into the crimes that have defined our last 200 episodes – and perhaps, the genre itself. You might think you know our tastes, but are you ready for the ultimate reveal? Tune in and find out! A special thank you to this week's guest, Michael Wanfalt!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well hello again. Oh my god, it's us again, us again.
We're back from the future and you're back. If you
listen to part one, you'll know that this is part
two of episode is two hundred because they were much
too long, you decided. So if you haven't listened to
part one, go back and listen to part one. We'll
wait here. We will be here when you get back. Yeah,

(00:21):
but in the meantime, welcome to part two. I hope
you enjoy yay part two. Why they discovered to find
their arrivals unspeakable. I'm not doing.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
They did want Bob, it's the living. You gotta worry about.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Something.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at
least I felt that I could keep are their skeletons?

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Okay? Number five?

Speaker 3 (01:04):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Number five? Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Mine is also kind of this like breaking documentary, not
because of like the timing of it, but just because
it's like the most batchit insane case in the world.
And this is the abducted in plane sight.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh my god, this case is so fucked up. I
hate this case. Andating do you remember that it was
a Netflix documentary? You, yes, you might remember that because.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
It was like a huge meme for a while, because like,
so this is the abducted in plane site. It's matter wild,
it's so wild, it's so it is the most insane.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's really fucked up.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Called Jan Broberg. It's at first it seems like a
pretty open and shut abduction case. Gets abducted by their neighbor.
Robert Birch told this was all in like the seventies,
so she didn't get abducted once. She ended up getting
abducted twice. Oh and there's all the same guy by

(02:14):
the same guy. This this really is a pretty wild
case of just parental neglect where they were like, oh,
this is our neighbor, Robert. He really likes our daughter
and he thinks that he should sleep in her bed.
I think that's fine because he just seems like such
a nice guy. Also there while she was missing, this

(02:36):
child is missing. They pretty much know that he has her.
Both the mother and the father have sexual affairs with
the kidnapper, with the guy with the neighbor. Yep, yeah, yep, yeah,
not at the same time, separately like separate of each other,
know each other, but yeah, both parents that they were knowing.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
It isn't that insane?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
That's like at one point, this guy kidnapped entanglement.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
It's so bad. It's bad. It's so bad. And they
talk about like being manipulated and how it was like
but like some of it is a little like yeah,
I don't you know, like my very black and white personality.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
A lot of.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
People were like, oh my god, like he was really
this Robert guy, this this kidnapper guy was such like
a genius that he was able to manipulate these parents.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I'm like, or maybe the parents are just like potatoes.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, that was pretty much it. That was pretty much.
It just is like in my opinion, and he had didn't.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
He abduct her because he was going to marry her.
It was going down to Mexico.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, because at the time it was like there's like
a legal thing there that like he could do it,
and he was also thinking about adopting her, but you know,
she already had those parents. And then after all this,
at one point he like burns her father's shop to
the ground.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, it's all kind of had at the same time.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Sounds like a pretty big crash out.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
It is a big and not reasonable crash out ablutely,
and that's the crazy thing. Is just like how everyone
failed this child, Like she sees she is in the
documentary and both the parents are in the documentary. They
like interview everyone. She seems so well adjusted. She seems
like such. She is a great speaker. You see get

(04:25):
very emotional.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Of course, I'm sure she's had a therapy.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
You can tell she has like great like therapy speaking.
You see her like talk herself down. Yeah, super super great.
But like that's one of the first documentaries where I
watched it, Like an alcoholic dad at a football game.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
I was like, yeah, it was. When they first put
it on Netflix, it was very sensational. It was like
the number one in the country for a while. It was.
It was crazy.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
It's just a couple of episodes. I watched it in
a night. I would absolutely recommend it.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
It is, but you got to be prepared because it
is really fucked up. It's like, yeah, it's pretty rough
because she's.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Talking about like she goes very into Oh yeah, I
didn't even mention that this guy told her that he
was an alien.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Oh yeah he was.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
He's like, oh, you're being abducted like by aliens, and
this is an abuse I'm doing to you. It's like
you know, alien stuff.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
And she's like if people were asking her if she
was abducted, like they just mean alien.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
It's just alien, right, very like, oh, this isn't this
isn't what you think it is. This isn't abuse, This
is just you know, you know ufl stuff. You know,
you know, don't you know? And she was like so
little that and had idiots for parents that she was like,
I mean like yes, but it's cool to see like
her point of view and her as the only stable

(05:49):
person in this documentary.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
So I literally for her.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, and she was able to like fix second trial.
He's dead now, but she was able to you know,
stare him down and so yeah, I'm mad now.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
All right, my number five. We briefly mentioned this a
little bit ago. Jambney Ramsey, Oh sorry, no, no, it's fine,
it's fine. Definitely my number five. I don't think this
one this move.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Up or down the list or was it number five before?

Speaker 1 (06:19):
I don't think this one had moved. I didn't note it.
Let me see. You know, this one is the same. Okay,
this one is you know, this one is the same,
So Jampney Ramsey, I mean I have thoughts, yes, yeah,
it's hard to not have heard of this case if
you've been living under the rock for a last not
under the rock, under a rock, I feel like that's

(06:41):
like most well known true. But there's a lot of
aspects of this case that are fascinating, mysterious, unusual, and
considering no one has been charged ever, like, it's just
kind of insane. Yeah. Yeah, So jam Many as a
six year old beauty queen who's discovered dead in the

(07:02):
basement of her home following the discovery of a lengthy
handwritten ransom note. Took approximately eight hours for her body
to be found inside the house, and the official cause
of death was found to be asphyxia by strangulation associated
with cranio cerebral trauma and was ruled a homicide. There
is literally so much information I'm not even going to

(07:22):
go into it, really, but there's a lot of people
who have given opinions over the years and it still
remains unsolved after twenty plus years now. We did talk
about this not that long ago, is it? After the
release of the documentary which you, Michael told me to watch.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Did you watch it?

Speaker 1 (07:41):
I did watch it off of your recommendation. I watched
it and I'm pretty sure when you told me to
watch it, you were like, yeah, I don't know about
the whole parents killing her thing. I'm pretty sure, no, I.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Said the brother.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
The brother, yes, Well for a long time, you know,
That's where I kind of land. It was that Burke
was maybe the culprit and they were. It's a bad opinion.
I don't think he did it either, but I think
that's after watching that, I'm like, Okay, I don't think
that's the case, because I guess there are things that
don't always get talked about in the investigation, as far as.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Like how it on eleven year old know how to
tie that knot around?

Speaker 1 (08:18):
I feel I completely right right in there.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
And there is that like footprint on the suitcase under
the window in the basement. There's like a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, it was not it wasn't. It was not investigated. Well, no,
they were. They handled the initial crime scene horribly. Yep.
They just like let a bunch of people into the
fucking house. And then when her father found her body,
he immediately picked her up, picked her up and carried
her upstairs, which then contaminates that whole thing.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
He was even allowed to look for hers insane. I know, insane.
I know there's just parents out of the d house.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
This was on Christmas Eve or something, right, Yes, yeah,
it was New Year's Eve.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
I remember there was like a whold thing with just
no yeah. Yeah, it was like Christmas or Christmas New
Year's Yeah, one of those one of those holidays. I
just am like, again, do I think we're ever going
to get an answer to this? Probably not.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
What are your thoughts? Do you think I did it?

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah? So now I think that there may have been a.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
External person That's what I'm kind of on the page
with that.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Broke into the house.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
I don't know if that external person was business associate
or like it, because that has been floated that it
was like a like an enemy business associate or something.
But like, I don't know what the affiliation is, if
it was just a random person or whatever. I do
think it was a third party that was not in
the house, or like.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
A creeper fan from the beauty pageants thing.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, there is that, like weird like Provy undercoa for sure. Yeah,
what do you think, Rachel?

Speaker 3 (10:07):
I think that, and again this is a little conspiracy.
I think that the parents were involved, and I think
that there was also a third party. I think that
it was a setup. I think that they were going
to like have her kidnapped and like held for ransom
then as a scam, and then it went wrong. I

(10:29):
think that either the guy they hired was like crazy
and like killed her, or like.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
It was an accident, okay, and then.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
They were like, oh, yeah, because the parents are fishy.
The whole thing is fishy. Why was the ransom note
written from paper and pen from their house?

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Oh I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, And there was a crumpled up ransom note that
they had tried to write in their garbage.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Oh well, and see this is the thing. Like there
has been some handwriting analysis done where people have claimed
that it was her mom. Ass Patsy's handwriting.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Looks she's dead now, right she is?

Speaker 3 (11:02):
She got guilt cancer, Yeah, that's what you get when
you kill you and then.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Allegedly allegedly and then there were of course, like her
being drugged up and then talking about like the one
thing they always talked about was her giving that interview
and the father like mouthing the words as she was
saying them, like yeah, that's kind of like this is
what I mean like, there's a lot of stuff that's like,

(11:31):
this is all really super fun.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
It doesn't all point to one answer. It's very like twisty.
I totally agree.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
There's a lot of wild cards in the.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Sorry that my slack notification just went. I heard that
I wasn't expecting anybody at work to be on on
Sunday noon. Oh my gosh. So yeah, So that is
my number five jambinet. Such a good one right in
the middle. Number four. Wait, hold on, I didn't even

(12:00):
ask what did you think? What do you think of it?

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Oh? I think that there was a mystery, like.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
An external broken You don't think John and Patsy John?

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Is that his name?

Speaker 1 (12:10):
John?

Speaker 2 (12:10):
John and Patsy I are involved. I am fully how
do I want to say this? I'm fully convinced that
the brother had no part in it. I am not
fully convinced that the parents had no part in it.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
I think that's a good point of view. I don't.
I don't think it's unreasonable. I think I could see.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
It like, yeah, there's like plausibility to it.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yes, absolutely, that's a good and.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
For somebody who overthinks about that kind of stuff. I'm like,
they could have been like involved in this way, this way,
this way, this way, nobody will ever know.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Oh, there's this whole I mentioned this on the podcast
once before. There's this whole theory that because there are
pictures of the parents with Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Oh so I'm like.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Child trafficking thing.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
I don't know, But when you go into that territory,
it does it more like because I've seen all kinds
of people. Even we mentioned Madelin McCann earlier that yeah,
there's like a woman who was supposed to have carried
her out of the hotel. People have said that that
looks like Glenne Maxwell. So it's like they kind of
like get into every case where it's.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Like is that YOURU? Isn't that your You don't know yet.
It could be the same people. It could be the
same people Madela McCann and John Many Ramsay.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Absolutely could have it could be it can no, no
it okay anyway, sorry, number four, number four.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
So my number four is the Dilotov past.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Oh I love this one.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Okay, this one I have I know the broad strokes.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, this is so good. I love to give Are
you more we woo about this or.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Are you more I am more than the Russian government
to that.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Okay, that's the Russian government.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
I mean my theory. Yeah, I think that it was. Okay,
hold on, you want a clue, no clue in the
rest of the plans, yeah, let me let me, let
me do a little paragraphis so.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, the Dialotop Pass, if you are not familiar, is
a case out of like the it was like nineteen
fifty nine where nine hikers were hiking this like sort
of scary mountain pass. They were trying to get a
hiking like certification. Okay, so this was them like completing

(14:23):
their certification so they could hike more dangerous areas. So
they were all friends, they were all doing really well,
and then overnight something made them to some event happened.
When their bodies happened were eventually found, they had there

(14:44):
had obviously been an incident, but it was unclear as
to what that incident was, and they were all found dead.
But a lot of their causes of death were sort
of like okay, how did Yeah, Like there's a lot,
I see, this is one so weird. You'll be proud
of me because I don't think that aliens at this
and that's I don't.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Wow, I am kind of impressed. I always go with
the wu theories every time as well, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Because you know sometimes it is but literally I love
the zest to life. Okay, I have a lot of zest.
I'm a zesty bitch.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
But so ghosts are just like seasoning. Is that what
it is?

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Like everything bagel season.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Hungry.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
But that's the kind of the prevailing theory is like
among a lot of people is that this was aliens.
Like there are when they found one of their cameras.
There are pictures that one of the girls took of
like lights on the mountain that look very UFO.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, I think there were like light trails and stuff.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
This was in the fifties, yes, yes, almost fifteen.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
It was like Siberia, right, yes, like very very cold Russia.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
So and when they were found this is kind of
like a misconception thing I feel by people. When they
were found, a lot of them were missing certain body parts,
a lot of their tongues were out, and so people
were like, this is you know, alien harvesting, but it
just kind.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Of turned out to and they were all I think
where they all found naked, like they had a lot
of they had all wandered off separately from the campsite,
died separately, and some of them were completely naked when
they died.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, so that sounds like hypothermia, that's what they said.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
But none of them had hypothermia, like they some of
them were in states of undress. Again, they were all very.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Experienced takers, all of them.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
This was like the last test they needed to do
to get their certification. So they all had like pips
of training.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
They were having fun and then in the middle of
the night something caused them to LSD. Take No, none
of them had drugs in our system at all. They
cut they didn't open the tent.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
They sliced with their knives.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Isn't that crazy, and like ran out. A lot of
them didn't have sh was a really big fart could
be You're like, get me honestly, you know been there.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Then there Like one of them it seemed like had
tried to climb a tree and had fallen. They don't
know if like they were fleeing. So I think I
think we're gonna have the same theory Michael is.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Oh, I love it. I think that it was the
Russian government. Okay, there's I mean, they're behind a lot
of really sure are And this even.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Too is they have not released their records. Of course,
most Russian records are sealed. I mean their whole finding
of Princess Anastasia and her brother was only released recently. Yeah,
like the whole, Like what actually happened to the Roman housers.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
They barely wanted to acknowledge that Chernobyl was happening when
it was. They were like, this isn't a problem. It's
fine happening. No, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
And I mean they still, I mean they we did
the same thing at Premile Island, So yeah, we we
did that. We did.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, it's not only Russia the country. I mean, you're
not wrong that right, Rachel's communist pot We.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Did the exact same thing, except damage wasn't as bad.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, I think I understand why why people attached sort
of like a supernatural element to it, because you don't
know what happened.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Like I've seen people say it is fine. I've seen
people say it was the Yettie like, so what's your
what are your theories?

Speaker 2 (18:30):
So there's this thing called inference. Sound I don't know
if you're familiar with it, but they so that is
one of the examples of it, and then there was
another example of it in Cuba, I think like twenty
or thirty years later, maybe more recently than that, even,
but it happened at the US embassy in Havana, OK.
What is called it was called Havana syndrome.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, if I remember correcturing these like horrible noises.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, it's like this. It's like the sound frequency that
will literally like make you ill. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
So it's like a more more extreme version of the
brown note.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yes kind of, yes, yeah, pretty much. It's it's it's
I guess audio warfare.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah. Yeah, but it like makes you like physically sick.
It will make you confused, disorient you. It can make
you do like crazy things, you know what I mean.
So that's one of the theories is that it was
the government testing inference sound they got caught in it,
and they got caught in it.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Uh just like wrong place, wrong time type.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Is more natural, and it was just an avalanche.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
Happened, right, And that's It's it's hard to tell a
lot of the snow had shifted so much on the mountain.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Because it was a very windy night that night.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Do they know how long they were out there?

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Like, do they know this was just one night?

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Okay, yep, okay, yep. And they were all separate, they
were all in different places. It's a weird that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
And they were missing body parts, Like yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
It's like what I think.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
I feel like for all of them to have died
in weird ways, I think something else had to have
been going. Like I understand even experienced hikers can experience
hypothermia and confusion, but even the picture of the lights,
when I saw it, I understand. I was listening to
like a supernatural podcast. They were like, it's Alia's I
looked at the photo. I was like, this looks like

(20:14):
a factory. So I was like, what if they stumbled
in because it was this deserted area there was There
was one hiker who did live because he turned back
before this happened. He was just like, I actually don't know,
like if I can do this, this is kind of
a lot. So he turned back, but he had to
walk for like a bazillion years to find a village.
It was remote. So I'm like, what better place to

(20:36):
test some like government weapon. I know that sounds ooky, spooky,
but like it kind of makes sense to.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Me, and the thing. I mean in the West.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, it's happened before, So I'm like, I kind of think.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
That Hawaii man not like half of Nevada.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
What's his name, John Wayne? That's how John Wayne died.
He got cancer from working on that one movie. And
so did everybody else who worked on that movie.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Damn. Yep. Governments be doing stuff that's wild. So that's wild.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
So that one's always That's one of my favorites too.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, that's definitely your flavor of weird for sure, my too.
So my number four is far less exciting than I'm
already more. Uh it is n Ron Oh okay, yeah, yeah,
of course I have to have not one, but I
just love them, and especially nineties white.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Collar crimes because special about it. It is the vibe
is just a little dot com bubble hadn't busted yet.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, and I definitely yes, Carvo, what's the deal? Car
So as much as we remember, like Jambonet being on
the news when we were kids, I definitely remember seeing
the NRON logo like everywhere, yes, everywhere, And now I

(21:57):
haven't hanging it my apartment then you too, Yes I do.
It was actually that was a gift from Janelle. Actually, yeah,
it's great, but this so. Enron was a Houston, Texas
based energy, commodities and service company formed in the nineteen
eighty five merder of Houston Natural Gas and inter North.

(22:19):
They were like a major electricity, natural gas, communications, and
pulp and paper company, did a little bit of everything,
and it was named Fortune's America's Most Innovative company for
six consecutive y.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yes, wow, it was like a like a serious like
they had really good people behind it too.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
It's crazy. Yeah, but all was not as it seemed done,
of course, and thanks to an interesting use of accounting loopholes,
special purpose entities, and poor financial reporting, they were able
to hide billions of dollars in debt from failed deals
and projects. Of course, this was used to mislead Enron's
board of directors and audit committee on high risk accounting

(23:01):
practices and forced Arthur Anderson LLP, at the time, one
of the world's largest accounting firms, to ignore all of
these issues. In the end, they filed for the largest
corporate bankruptcy at the time, with sixty four point sixty
three point four billion in assets. Multiple Enron executives were

(23:21):
sentenced to jail time good don't see Arthur Anderson was
also charged and found guilty of obstruction of justice for
shredding documents related to the SEC's investigation of Enron, and
ended up closing shortly thereafter. If you want to know
more about this, definitely look at Enron's Smartest Guys in
the Room on Netflix. That's like the That was a

(23:43):
trivia question last week, Actually was it?

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:46):
It was the name of the documentary, and I was like,
I know this one. I got it. I've seen this
like six times. Yeah, it's a really good documentary. Now,
have you guys been seeing and run in the news recently?

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Kind of a little bit.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
You will find this one interesting because Enron's fucking back, baby. No,
so since the last time, enough to worry about. I know,
since the last time we talked. I talked about this
on the show. Uh, they've had a little bit of
a comeback. In twenty twenty, the rights to Enron the
Enron name were purchased by the new CEO, Connor Gatos

(24:23):
Connor co founder of the College Company and Birds Aren't Real.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
No, No, yes, I love that.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, And there was definitely some like meme things happening.
He like reopened the website. But the website was this
like memi thing where they were like, it was like
a satire where is Enron almost where they were like, oh,
we're releasing this new product, this is biochemical blah blah
blahlah blah. That ended up not being real. It was crazy. Yeah,
so there's like these meme things happening, right. But then

(24:56):
on February fourth, twenty twenty five, So just last month, okay,
Enron launched a crypto tooken No, they did, they did,
named Enron. It's like dollar sign and ron.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Oh my god, Oh my god, wan.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
The Solana blockchain. That's stupid. At one point trading with
a market capitalization of seven hundred million before the price
fell at least seventy six percent within twenty four hours
of launch.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Which part of me is like, Man, isn't it on
brand for Enron to then start a fucking scam cryptocurrency.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Aren't the crypto markets already so saturated with such like bullshit?

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Oh it's yeah stupid. I hate cryptocurrency, yeah, because it
seems like the only really legitimate one is bitcoin. And
I use that word lightly because I personally think cryptocurrency
is a scam.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
We've talked about as far.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Like in general, I just like bad for the environment. Yeah, everything,
But like there's been so many that have just been
introduced and failed. Dog coin, the Trump released one that
was like his own coin. There was this there's a
great podcast called the Crypto Queen. Who is this woman

(26:12):
from like Okay, Brazil. I want to say that introduced
a cryptocurrency. Yes, and it was a thousand percent to
scam and she has like disappeared. Nobody knows where she is.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
She has these.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Billions of dollars. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's another endocryptocurrency.
But and it's just one of these things again that
was like this company was successful. I'm not sure why
if they just didn't want to pay out on these
investments and they're like, well now we need to hide
all this money like could be. So that's my number four.
That's a good one. Okay. We are officially into top three,

(26:51):
top three. We are nearing the ends of our lists,
and that kind of works out. You know, I said
I didn't rank them, but I subconsciously you did. I
kind of subconsciously did, because these are good ones. My
number or number three. Oh, number three.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
My number three is another kind of local one, although
maybe just a little bit before our time, which is
The Devil in.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
The White City. Oh, yes, Murder Castle Castle, Yes, that
was Did you see the American Horror Story? Yes, season
that is one of my favorite seasons. It's the old
Lady Gaga. That's also the same season that they do
The Murder Dinner. Yeah, I love it. It's like because

(27:37):
they haven't. Yeah, Richard Ramirez and Jeffrey Dahmer and John
Way Jacy and yeah, that was like one of my
favorite episodes of television. It was insane, but it was
so good. Did you finish watching Hotel Her No?

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Okay, it was a little wonky. I liked it, I
like to tell me.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
And you feel a little differently about Ryan Murphy. But
I love Lady Gus I well anyway, so.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
I don't even know if we would be friends anymore.
What's wrong with Lady Gaga politically?

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Fuckuck, get out of here. I can't Okay, we will
never talk about this again. But she's very talented, Yes,
very very talented. Damn right, she is very talented, mother monster.
But I'm mad at her.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
So J. Holmes, whose real name was Herman Webster Mudget
Sexy okay, but also better known as doctor Henry Howard Holmes.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
H Thoms is much catchier budget Mudget Webster Mudget better
than Chestnut Herman Chester A. J. Holmes Budget. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Known as the Torture Doctor, the Devil in the White City,
or the Beast of Chicago. He engaged in just about
every kind of crime you could think of, including fraud, robbery,
and most notably hella murder.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Hella murder around the time of the Chicago World's Fair
in the eighteen ninety Nope, eighteen hundreds. Yeah, I was
looking at his death date. Oh and it was the
eighteen hundred sometimes to read.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Because he was executed in eighteen ninety six. But before then,
his most notable crime was because the Chicago World's Fair
was so popular. This is when a lot of local
inventions such as ice cream and television, and it was
like a month's long affair. It wasn't just like for
a week or two.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
It was like a whole couple of months.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, And like everyone came, all of the celebrities came,
all of the major inventors came. This is when you
could see kind of like what's going on in the
rest of the world. They had these amazing displays.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
That's how we got the fair feel and Navy Peer Girl,
that's how we got ice cream cones. I mean, I
think the Navy Peer Ferris wheel beats ice cream kidding
bread buns, that's that's weird, isn't that weird? Bread?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
So there was a.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Stand with the ice cream, like literally ice cream sandwiches,
which is so gross.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
They still do that in Italy. They put it on
buns sometimes it's't not funny.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
And there was like a booth down so they like
I think ran out of bread, but there was a
booth doing those like pizzelle cookies, which is like yes, yes, exactly,
and they formed them around the cone so that they
could have something to hold the ice cream. And that's
how ice cream cones were born, which.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Is so cool. Yeah, but the ferri seel was done
on purpose.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Okay, well, well so we're ice cream cones.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
They were a product of an accident that were like mistakes,
I know, get back to the murder. I'm in it.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
I'm providing local color. This is the time when h
Holmes munching on a sandwich made of ice cream formed.
He was like, Okay, I'll just make a lot of
money and I'll make a hotel for all of these
people that are going to come and stay at the
World's Fair. But I'm fucking crazy, so I'm going to
make it a murder hotel.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
So he had like rooms that would just gas people
and kill them to death. He had rooms that would
open like trapdoors and shoot him into the basement. He
was experimenting with people like they were mice, and so
most people who walked through his doors would not come
out again, which was convenient because with all the hustle
and bustle of the fair, people weren't really paying attention

(31:39):
to people who especially might have been transient coming and going,
because again, like you said, it's this month's long event,
so it's like, well, I'm not expecting Jimmy back.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
For And frankly, there was a lot of other like
immigration into Chicago happening at that time too, anyway, like
any workers Like yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Because that was like during the time of the skyscraper, right, Yeah,
it's like the beginnings of it.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah. Yeah. He seemed to be a person completely without empathy, Yeah.
He literally was just like Lottie down around his murder hotel. Yeah, yeah,
doing it for fun. It's like, well he did have
a partner too or something, right, Yes, he did. That
was how he.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Eventually got caught was he had a business partner and
then he just kind of fumbled too much. The business
partner was like, well, you're not gonna pay me to
help you murder. I'm gonna go to the police. That's
what I'm gonna do.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Damn.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
That was a really good accent.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Oh thinks it's better than my dad's. The only one
that she could do well. That is literally the only
one that could do well lie lies and slender lieson
Manellie lies. Uh.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
But so he was eventually executed in eighteen ninety six
for general murder and mayhem. I may eight people, but
like just the idea of I'm gonna make this building
with all of these like.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Crazy trap doors. Yeah, it's so scary to think of
cowards to nowhere rass trampinraf castle. But yes, for murder,
not for not for fun, not for being weird, not
for like ghost ghosts stuff, so silly.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
I would love to go there me too.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
I would actually love to go there. I think, please
go there. Yeah, yeah, okay, that's that one is always
on our tour schedule. Yeah, the tour schedule. Oh gosh, okay,
my number three, number three Elizabeth Holmes and these Yeah, okay,

(33:32):
so this case, like my top three, is like very
tough to break into. I'm gonna be honest. It stays
pretty consistent. Okay, But this is just one of these
cases that I am constantly fascinated with because cute is her.
For Halloween, I did go for her aswe here. So.

(33:53):
Elizabeth Holmes was an American biotechnology entrepreneur who started a
blood testing company called Theranose, this like venture out of Stanford.
They claimed that their systems could run hundreds of tests
from a single drop of blood. So convenient, so convenient,
and little too, very appealing for people who were like
diabetic and have to take different blood tests or having

(34:14):
to constantly go in for blood tests for like you
know whatever, cancer or you know whatever whatever you got
on And it's like so nice. Yeah yeah, and she
got a ton of attention from hospitals. She they eventually
did a deal with Walgreens to like have the blood
testing in Walgreens. She was even named the youngest and
wealthiest self made billionaire by the in the US by

(34:38):
Forbes in twenty fifteen.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Crazy.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
Uh, the only problem is it was all fucking love.
It was all a lot. She was like, give me
your blood for nothing. Yeah. It was like it was
like a blood pretty much. And it was like it
wasn't their machines. They were like using machines from another
company and slapping fairyhose like labels on them. So awful.

(35:01):
They still were having instead of being able to have
the blood tested in the facility, they had to like
collect it and send it to their nose. But they
were collecting like vials of fucking blood but their noses,
like we just need one drop, like that's a little more. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
It was crazy.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
So she had been lying to everybody.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
I know.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Well she was very so good. Yeah, she's so pretty.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Just a year after this Forbes thing, Fortune named Holmes
one of the nineteen most disappointing leaders, just like, damn,
so you've fallen After a series of reporting by John
Careyrew of the Wall Street Journal, who had the help
of some whistleblowers from within the company. Later there was

(35:45):
uh an investigation by the SEC Holmes and her uh
COO and lover Sonny Ballwanie, were charged with fraudulently raising
seven hundred million dollars from the investors through a fraud
involving false or exaggerated claims about the accuracy of the
company's blood testing technology. In twenty eighteen, for that, she

(36:06):
paid a five hundred thousand dollars fine and returned eighteen
point million shares to the company, relinquished voting control of Fairnose,
and was banned from banned for ten years from serving
as an officer or director of a public company Wow.
And then later in twenty eighteen, Holmes and Balwani were
handed federal indictments of nine counts of wire fraud two

(36:29):
counts of conspiracy to commit wirefraud. They both pleaded not guilty.
Twenty twenty two, she was found guilty of three counts
of wirefraud one count of conspiracy. She was sentenced to
eleven and a quarter years in federal prison. It's weird, yeah,
and so the short sentencing that's yeah, yeah, four hundred
and fifty two million in restitution. And this is a

(36:50):
different type of fraud. This is not just financial, this
is fucking health fraud. Yeah, medical fraud. So there were
This was the thing during her trial. There were a
lot of patients that came forward that were like, like,
they told me that my cancer was back, and in
fact the blood tests were not accurate. There actually wasn't
an issue. There was like a woman who was pregnant
that was like, they're telling me that like the child

(37:13):
was already dead. Oh wow type of you know what
I'm saying, Like that type of thing, right, But like
there were at trial, there were not a there was
not enough evidence to bring these claims, which is why
they they she was only charged for the fraud is
because they did not have the evidence to bring these
like medical fraud claims that lady for emotional distress I know,

(37:35):
and I think there might have been like a civil
lawsuit against the company on behalf of some of there
should people, yeah, because that was like those are just
two examples, but that there were a lot of people
versus blood curing. Yeah, because they did make it into
blood hearings. They did make it into Walgreens, like yeah,
he did actually physically make it there. So she is

(37:55):
currently expected to be released in twenty thirty two. She
has gotten a couple of years off of her sentence
and is serving prison in the same prison time in
the same prison as Jenshaw from Real Housewives of Salt
Lake City. There they are like buddies. Yeah, no, it's wild.
This is just again one of these cases that I'm like,

(38:17):
I know, is that crazy gen Shaw? For those that
don't know, she's on their Real Housewives of Sutlag City
and she also got indicted for wire fraud and mail
for Yes, it's so good and it was all on
the show in the the fucking in the car in
the van, the sprinter van o. Yeah yeah, and like

(38:40):
the cops come up and they like, we're looking for
gen Shaw and they're like, she just left and then yeah,
I was scamming old people out of something money but
out of fake subscriptions. Yeah, yeah like that. Anyway, they're
in the same prison together.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
This is you.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
I just find she took you.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
See Jen get her sentence reduced again.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, she's going to be out next year the year
after going to be so lonely.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
That's okay, She'll get her sentence reduced.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
To a thousand percent. Gun show is going to be
back on sEH. I bet, I bet what if I
would not be if Elizabeth comes on, it can imagine.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
I don't think she's from Utah, so what.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
But also I don't think she would do that. That
seems out of character for her, especially getting out of prison.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Her whole band was like girl, Steve Jobs, Yeah, this
case is just like vast There is.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
A lot of medical stuff that happens, but like the
amount of lying that she did to literally everybody, like
she changed her voice. She didn't tell anybody about this
affair with her chief operating officer, she lady. Yeah. Yeah,
she was like telling her employees to just like blatantly
disregard procedure. Oh and lie to people who came in.

(40:02):
She was being weirdly secretive and then to continue and
then and then she gets indicted, and during trial she
meets this guy who's like a hotel mogul error and
he gets she gets fucking pregnant, and she's like, well,
now you can't send me to prison because I'm pregnant,
Like wow, And they were like that, it's cool, you

(40:23):
can have the baby and we'll send you afterwards.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
No, no, is exactly what they fucking did. She was
There's a lot of theory and I believe this that
she possibly got pregnant in order to sway the jury
and like extend her nos to call that.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
In hiradical times, they called that pleading your belly. Yes,
both the two most like famous White pirates and Bonnie
and Mary Reid, both when they were up for execution,
pled their bellies and said no, I'm pregnant, you can't
execute me.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
And they're like, okay, yeah, I just love that. The
just like no, it's fine, you can have the baby,
but like, yeah, you're going right after this is this
is the twenty first century, Garly, We'll see you there.
She did try to, because she tried to make the
argument like my kids are gonna need me blah blah
blah blah blah for what they have a cur get homegirl,
I don't need you or anything.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
I don't need your blood hearing.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
All right, Number two, we're getting down to the nitty
gritty here. Okay, number two, Number two, Number two, little
known case, not sure if you'll know it, the case
of Lizzie Andrew Borden. Oh okay, okay, I have to

(41:34):
did you go to Zion?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah you did, right? So?

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Did do you know the Lizzie Borden took an ex
gave her father forty wax when she saw what she
had done.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
She gave your father forty one or yeah, forty one
sounds familiar.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
I said that.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
Once to my husband and Michael went to the same school,
like school, and he was like, I have never heard
of that in my life.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
I was like, did they not teach that at private school?
Was not like they taught it in school?

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (42:00):
I learned it in class. Oh a teacher probably missus Harold. Oh,
to be honest with you, I mean I remember hearing
it just in general. We would sing it on the playground.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
He was like what he was like horrified. I'm like, yeah,
welcome to public school. Yeah, that sounds about right. So
I was researching murderers and serial killers in my freshman
and sophmore year past.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Well, I was in the library reading murder books Lizzie
Borden And that's the thing is like, there's nursery rhymes
about her. That's one of those that I think the
majority of people think that she did the murder. You know,
it's one of those cases where she was acquitted of
the crime.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
She was not. Oh no, she definitely did that shit. No,
I agree, Yeah, she definitely did that shit. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
That's one where I'm always like, I'm very confused as
to how they found her not guilty. I think that's crazy. Yeah,
there is so much evidence. I understand and agree with
the theory that someone else could have been involved, like
the maide or her uncle, who were both kind of
like around the edges. But I'm like, do you burn

(43:08):
a bloody dress at midnight if you're innocent?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
No?

Speaker 1 (43:12):
No, me, No, who's to say.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
American sensational trials, there was all this They brought all
of this bloody stuff into trial, and that was unprecedented.
And she's fainting every couple seconds, which you know whatever.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Well, and those pictures are grouse. Have you You've never
seen that? I don't know. They're real, Like they are
a shock my friend. Yeah yeah, yeah, pull that up
because sorry, I should have included I thought they were
kind of grown. Well, they are grouse.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
They are grocers.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Just search Lizzie Borden and then go to They're like
super great. They're like black and white, but they're super graphic.
And you can still go to the Lizzie Borden house
today it's in Fall River, Massachusetts and it's a bed
and breakfast And actually I don't know if it's sold,
but it was for sale recently, so I'm hoping that

(44:09):
they'll continue.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
People have colorized these why of course they have.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Why need to see the arterial blood.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
So the whole story is that Lizzie Borden, who was
a young woman at the time still living with the family,
was like pretty wealthy, very wealthy, very wealthy. She was
living with her father and her stepmother. Uh, there are
a lot of there's a lot of like sort of
small town gossip, and that there was a lot of

(44:40):
tension in the family. Uh, Lizzie was reportedly like shoplifting
and engaging in strange behavior. And then one day she
reported that both her that she had found her father
and her stepmother killed a bludgeon to death in their
home with an exige in the picture.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
I found pictures. This is crazy, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Super super gross, super gruesome crime. And again she's a
woman in this eighteen hundred so there they had not
like grappled with what to do with women in crime,
Like holden axe. All she knows how to hold is
a Nita Lean throw right whatever.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yes, spoiler questions, Yes, tell me, because I don't remember
everything about this case.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
I got you.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Did she do this? Yes? She did this?

Speaker 1 (45:27):
I mean I think so. I think like this it
is more likely than not that she did.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
How old was she when this murder happened?

Speaker 3 (45:35):
What?

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Fourteen, fifteen sixty? No, that young.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
She was in her twenties, in her like twenties or thirties, okay.
And that was the thing was it was so horrific,
Like I think a lot of murders of that time
were like, oh, maybe you poison somebody, maybe you know,
they accidentally fall down.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
That was a very like womanly crime like poisoning.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
She was only five four, she was teeny teeny tiny,
so I think she took him by surprise.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
So the father was asleep. He was killed in his
there's like a chaise lounge still.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
At it looked like it was like across his face
or something.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
His head, his whole head got like kid. Yeah, and
like that.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
It wasn't exactly the nursery rhyme goes, she gave her
father forty where actually gave her mother forty one. It
was actually her stepmother, and it wasn't quite forty, but
it was quite a few. You know, you think of
acts in a human head, you don't need that many blows.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
But it was certainly.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
She was born eighteenth oh so it wasn't like a
one and done. It was like a chop top top child.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Oh yeah, she was thirty two. She was thirty two. Okay,
I thought she's like a woman, she's like our age,
like our age. And that was the thing too when
she was okay popstar, I understand it now understandable millennial rage.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
She was considered a spinster, which kind of drove into
the tension in the home. Yeah, and there was this
whole thing of like is she getting the inheritance all
of this stuff, so it was kind of assumed that
she did it. There was a lot of public outcry
when she was acquitted. It was just sort of lack
of evidence. They really weren't sure. Her story changed a

(47:13):
million bazillion times. She was not a reliable witness, she
lied all the time, she hid evidence, but they just
didn't have enough to convict her. So she was acquitted,
and infamously so she got their money because they died
and they couldn't prove that she killed them, so she
got the money. And she never married. She remained in

(47:34):
the town and had bought a house I believe with
her sister, who wasn't there at the time. She wasn't
involved in the murder at all. Yeah, and just with
like hold parties and became sort of like a weird socialite.
But she faced a lot of negativity from the surrounding
town because they all.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Were like you, yeah, you definitely killed your parents, and
she was like, whatever, come in for a drink whatever.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
So it was at a hotel that the murder happened.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Or no, it's a hotel now, okay, it's like a
bed and breakfast. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
So she moved out of that house, bought a new
house up the hill that's gorgeous. Yeah, and just lived
there and was like having society parts good for her.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Yeah, I know, I know for a fact she had
at that house.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
Probably probably god to be a fly on the yeah, absolutely,
But like that was the thing is sheep, I can't
hear you.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Oh it sounds like I didn't do it and not
deserve all your money.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
I knew it. I knew it to be truthful, but
I love There's also there's an spooky thing about this case,
and we'll not even the spooky. It's just genetics. She
has that family has descendants. I watched like a whole
obviously a ghost show, but they went into like the
the local cemetery there and were looking at her descendants

(48:51):
and one of her uh it might have been her
her aunt or something. It wasn't that far removed, an ancestor,
and her family had gone mad and drowned her children
and in the well and had killed herself. Great, so
there's that thing of like, is there like a curse
mental Well, of course they put it off as a curse.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
I was like, sorry, I'm trying to meet I'm just
trying to meet you where you are. Oh my god,
I'm just trying to meet where I feel so honored. Well,
of course, you know, it's like the Kennedy's. Is it
a curse or is it just a bunch of rich
people being stupid?

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Right, it's the latter. Yeah, But you know, so it's
a it's.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
A really interesting case. It's an interesting family. You can
still go to the Bend and breakfast and they have
a lot of the same. The Chase Lounge is still
there and you look at it. Great ook the bloodstain.
All right, My number two, number two, Number two is scientology.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
That's a really good one. In general, like scientology, there
is Shirley Muskovic. Where is she? U? Literally this is
my like ultimate weakness when it comes to like I'm
constantly trying to consume scientology contest. Yeah, and now there's
definitely a lot more a weirdness about it and like

(50:11):
what they fucking do. But they've been taken to court many,
many times, and especially early on in the church, like
way back when LERH was alive and Hubbard. Now, this
is just a small list of things that have been
brought to light. These are the biggest ones. Operation snow White,

(50:32):
which was a criminal conspiracy aiming to purge unfavorable records
about founder LRH, including a series of infiltrations into and
thefts from one hundred and thirty six government agencies, foreign
embassies and consulates. That's crazy, a series of wire taps
and other shady, shady methods that ended up initiating an

(50:53):
investigation by the US government. Wow. Eleven highly placed Church
of executives, including lrh's White Mary Sue Hovard, pled guilty
and were convicted of obstructing justice. Burglary of government offices
and theft of documents and government properties. The investigation into
Operation snow White revealed an additional plot called Operation Freak Out,

(51:16):
in which their plan was to have author and journalist
Paulette Cooper imprisoned or committed it into a psychiatric institution
because her writing was critical of the church. She came
out with this series of articles out of a It
was a paper based in Clearwater, Florida, which is a
big Scientology base.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
They have one of their main of their out there.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, So she was writing these articles like
critical of Scientology. Coming could be because basically they bought
this huge property and then just like moved in and
people were like, who the fuck are these people. So
they were like, she needs to be committed because she's
like publishing all this negative stuff and she found out
about it. The last this big one, of course, is

(52:01):
the death of Lisa McPherson. We've talked about it on
the show before. She died from a pulmonary embolism while
under the care of Flag Service organization down at the
Flagland based in Clearwater, Florida. The church was initially charged
with negligent homicide, but the charges were dropped after the
medical examiner changed the cause of death to an accident. Yeah,

(52:21):
and this has to do to with like at the time, Okay,
I mean they still have.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Some of these I have so many thoughts about it.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
I know they have so many of these practices, but
like at the time, they were doing these very extreme
rundowns where the people were only drinking like broth type
of and they taking high levels of like nisin and
then going and working out, like high levels of nisine

(52:51):
to like purge their bodies. Yeah, and like lacking people
in the hole. Basically it's kind of crazy again depressens No,
that is just it. Well yes, yeah, yeah, that is
a scientileic. They're very anti psychiatry.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Because they're trying to get you clear or whatever.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then of course, as you
guys mentioned, there's also I don't want to the mysterious
disappearance of Shelley miss Gabbage. Yeah it's okay, we knew
what you meant. David miss Gabbage, the current leader. His
wife has not been seen in public in many, many years.
She has kind of like disappeared from public life. There

(53:35):
are reports that she's been seen alive and well by police,
but like nobody. Police are saying we've seen her, but nobody.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
I haven't tucked away. Okay, so what are your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I might take this into a wee wu direction. I
hope you're okay with that.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
L r H still alive. We're taken aback. Okay, back
to the thirties and the forties. Okay, LRH still alive.
If I remember correctly, he was living with Jack Parsons
in California and they were both under the tutelage of
Aleister Crowley. Yeah, yeah, well they were trying to do

(54:17):
a ritual sex.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
They were living together, but they were very good friends. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Did not know that Jack Parsons was a rocket scientist
for the US government. Yeah, by day by night him
LRH and Alistair Crowley are doing sex man magic.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
This is true.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
This is and summon this demon to like reset the world.
This is all absolutely accurate.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
And now Donald Trump's say, this is before the inception
of Scientology or really any of his sci fi writing
like this.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
So they were they were practicing chaos magic in the
thirties and forties, and the Church of Scientology came out from.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Also l R Rag stole Jack Parson's girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Yep, yep, l Rah stole Jack parsons girl friend.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
I need to look into this morning.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
It's a crazy story.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
It's crazy. He yeah, that's actually do you know I
was going to take it there? No, I didn't, but like,
there's so much red ship with this case. But that
is absolutely so. And he did realize too, the way
to make a lot of money was to create this
religion after he learned it from after he finished studying
with Crowley or that I don't want to say finished,
because really that relationship was kind of like severed, like

(55:33):
it was not ended on.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Wow, I'm good. But he took what he learned and
turned it into the Church of Science.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah he did. I mean, yes, generally, there was some
steps in then because here was a connection.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Between yes two. Yeah, that is crazy, isn't it? Isn't it?

Speaker 1 (55:50):
It's insane. It's insane anyway, Yeah, do you have was
that your big thought?

Speaker 2 (55:54):
The blood magic?

Speaker 1 (55:55):
I am a big thought.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Oh yeah, Bloodreggs magic.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
They're using the blood caring. It's all coming to all right,
We're gonna move out.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Number Big number one, Big number one, this actually kind
of worked out. I did some see, I did my homework.
I lied to you this whole time. This is one
of my like hyper fixations for my whole life. I
don't think it'll come as too much of a big surprise.
I'm talking about the unsolved murder of Elizabeth Short, also

(56:25):
known as the Black Dot.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Okay, I you know what.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Okay, So now that you've said that, we did not
have a single matching case at all, Yeah, we did it.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
I thought they didn't.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I thought we would too, but we did not. A
bunch of years that I'm like, oh yeah, I could
have put that.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I know.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
That is so funny. We were just texting like I
was like, I wonder if we'll have any in common,
and I said, I don't know. Okay. So Elizabeth Smart, yes,
Elizabeth Short Short, sorry, Elizabeth Smart is a very different thing,
very very different thing, that is okay.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
She was an American woman, a Los Angeles woman who
had the dream ever since she was a child, to
be famous. She wanted to be in movies. She wanted
to be an actress, and she would pin a big,
beautiful flower, a dahlia in her hair, just sort of
to stand out she was super, super gorgeous, dark hair,

(57:22):
blue eyes, and she was going to auditions doing her
thing and it you know, it's a tough business, it's
a tough life. She's doing her best and something that
she did because there's a rumor. Now I support all
sex workers, but she was not a sex worker. She
would do this practice where a lot of these poor

(57:43):
actresses did, where they would kind of date for dinner,
like I don't have anything to eat, but I'll have
a conversation with this guy. So it's not prostitution.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
It's just dinner. Yeah, it's just working what you got.
She has dinner and that's fine.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
And they.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Spec that one of these encounters may have led to
her death. And her death is so gruesome.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
I remember.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
That's one of those where like I saw the crime
scene photos in a book when I was like too
young to look at them. It was like, oh yeah,
like oh fully, like severed naked body in a field,
like that's the thing. It really seemed like her murderer
was trying to humiliate her. All splayed out, all cut
in half, her body was completely exsanguinated. They said that

(58:30):
she was dismembered with surgical precision. And that her her
mouth was cut into what is it called a Glasgow smile,
like a joker smile cheeks. So that and this poor
a lady walking with her baby in a stroller thought
that it was a mannequin in a field and was like,
oh a man, oh that's a dead Oh shit. Oh no,

(58:53):
that's her whole day ruined. Damn the case to this woman,
I always feel.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
She like, what is that over there?

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Oh? If I remember correctly, wasn't it like super close
to the Cecil Hotel too?

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Yes, yeah, very close, very close to the Cecil Hotel.
I almost put Alisa Lamb as what sous almost, But
that's a The fact that it's unsolved to this day
is really annoying. Uh, there's a prevailing theory. Have you
heard the whole theory? The guy who's like son is campaigning.

(59:28):
The guy who they think is the murderer is dead now,
but his son is like campaigning to be like it
was my dad, This was my dad.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Do they have any like DNA evidence or anything left
behind from that, No, they don't have it's too old.
They don't have DNA evidence.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
But they have this guy who a lot of people
have called him, you know, are like, yeah, you're crazy,
like whatever, but there seems to be a lot of
a lot of evidence not physical, but and then it's
like annoying.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
It is like I feel even even with it being old, right,
like the technology now is such that they can pull
it off of That's what I'm wondering if they have
like gone back to see if any of the stuff
that they have has DNA on it, you know, yeah,
a lot of it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
And like they want to search the house where this
guy lived who was a doctor, but somebody else owns
the house and won't let them search, and like it's
a lot of like a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
It seems like it's I mean I kind of get
that though too, because that is very disruptive to just
like a bunch of police in your place, like absolutely,
but like there is all this rustling about horrible. I
just feel so bad.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
She's seated like such a nice lady, so sweet, and
it's so like sort of darkly dramatic, where it's like
she always had this feeling that she would be well known.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Well she is, but it is so dark y like ironic,
it's so sad.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
So she's always just really a poor thing Yeah, you
feel so bad, this poor sweet thing, and then you're
maked dead in a field.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Yeah, that's a I mean, that's a good though, because
it is again unsolved. It's mainstream just like always like,
oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Yeah, and I think that guy did it. I think
that doctor guy did it. Oh he lived like a
street away from where she was found. Excuse me, And
he probably killed people in another country.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
That's what I say. Probably, that's what I say. Damn
that number one? Number one? So was your number one?
I mean, can you guess if there's one case I
haven't talked about yet? See how well my friends know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Me, Well, just tell me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Okay, my number one is Jim Jones and the People's Temple.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Oh dumb, Oh my god, dumb. I feel like we
just talked about it, so I was kind of like
we did. Yeah, I just listened to a big podcast
about that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
This is like the very first case that really got
me interested in cults specifically and the effect that religion
or like perceived religion has on large groups of people,
and also like how charismatic leaders sort of can influence
people like these are like a wreck themselves. Yeah, because

(01:02:12):
there's definitely like a psychology aspect to that piece of it.
And we've talked about this before, like, it's not necessarily
dumb people getting into aults, right like or or it's
a lot of times successful people or people who are
really smart. Absolutely not absolutely not nobody, if you've never

(01:02:33):
heard of this, it's most This group is most remembered
for what happened on November eighteenth, nineteen seventy eight, in Guyana,
when nine hundred and eighteen died in a mass murder
at the church's settlement called Jonestown, along with the murders
of US Congressman Leo O'Ryan and members of his delegation
while they were visiting the remote settlement. Until this is crazy,

(01:02:55):
until the September eleventh terrorist attacks, this remained the single
greatest loss of American civilian life in a deliberate act
until nine to eleven. Really, yeah, oh my god, I
didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
That's crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Is that crazy? Like that is the same. And I'm
sure you guys have seen like the aerial pictures of
just all of the bodies. Yeah, I mean that's massive,
But then a lot of people died.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
In nine eleven, so yes, he was so cooked out
of his mind he really was.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
I just watched like a documentary about it, and I
didn't realize the reason he wore sunglasses because his eyes
were all glazed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Over literally so many drugs.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Literally.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
But it wasn't always like that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
He started out like legitimately doing really good things because
he was like one of the first, Yes, he was
one of the first people who was really making an
effort to integrate his congregation and have people of all races, like, uh,
what is it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Praising is the praising is the only word that I
can think of. But going to church together, going to service. Yeah, yeah,
like he really worshiping, Yes, thank you. Worshiping is what
I was looking for. But like he really was, And
he was a big activist for the black community, for
the black community, and was reaching out and making these
connections between a lot of white and black churches. Like

(01:04:19):
it was, he was really doing good stuff. And then
he realized how much money he could be making, and
then things got a little fucking weird. And it is
right about the time that he started doing drugs, honestly,
but that's when he was like, well, we have all
these ties with Russia, We're gonna have this land in Guyana,
We're gonna, you know, Russia can Even at the end,

(01:04:41):
people were like, well what about Russia. Can't Russia bail
us out of this? Because he was telling people like
the government's coming after us. Yeah, yeah, so they it's
it's this is a very perfect example where there's such
a fine line between religion and cult. Honestly, like, I

(01:05:05):
think Jim Jones is obviously insane, but I think a
lot of the people who went with him really genuinely
thought they really believed in him. They believed in him.
They believed that the life in Guyana that they were
going to create, where it was self sustaining and living
in this community of God, was like going to be
the better way. And it just wasn't, you know what

(01:05:28):
I mean. So like it's sad, but it's just I
find it so interesting. And we talked about recently too
that the Guyana and government is considering turning tourist or
something turning into like a tourist attraction for like educational
sort of purpose. As long as it's done in that way,

(01:05:48):
I feel like I don't have a huge problem with it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Have you ever heard any of the recordings of him
doing his services?

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
It is eapy. It is, that's the whole thing is insane.
He really was. But now he's dead. So that guy,
So that is it. That is our top ten? Was
there any Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
So I wrote down two honorable mentions.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Okay, now that you've had some time to think.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
I had like Elizabeth Holmes on it too, but I
was like, well, I'm going to take her off because
you mentioned.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
I was going to ask if there was anything that
maybe you were like expecting to hear that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
So there's two that I want to mention. One of
them is the Nightstalker, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Okay, Richard Ramirez. Yeah, I brought him up because he
was in the Murder Dinner in American Horse.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
Sorry, yes, but like his story is freaking wild, like
just wandering around La walking into houses that don't have
the door locked and like killing the people inside.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Yes, trying door. He was, well, he was something. And frankly,
the fact that when he got caught, it was like
a crowd of people that were liking, You're not going
anywhere and just fucking bobbed him till the cops got there.
Ye Like yeah, like that is crazy. That's my favorite.
I do kind of love that he was also in

(01:07:09):
did you watch the it was another American Horse eighty
nine or that it was the one at the camp?
It was like American Horse already story Oh yeah, I
started when I can't finish ever, Yeah I think he
was then. Yeah, I started. It's a big Richard Ramirez storyline.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Yeah, I'll have to look. But it's a little weird.
It's like he is actually brought from the devil and
is immortal and can keep coming back to kill people
because he's killing in the name of the Devil. Yeah, Murphy,
but the guy that got to play him was really
good anyway, who is the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
The other one was Ed Kemper. Oh yeah, I had.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Really Yeah, that was probably the best portrayal. Is born
to play Ed Kember? Yes, yes, that is his voice everything.
If you guys have not seen My Hunter, please check
it out.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Yeah, it's really insured. I just want to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
I stop it stop. At the end of season one, I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Am convinced that you don't know anything when it comes
to talking about television.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
You might be right, and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
I'm just here to argue so many hot takes that
I'm like, you are fucking wrong. Yeah yeah wow versus.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
That is Yeah, ed kemper is whatever. At least I
watched the shows you suggest to me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
True times, sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
You've never watched these shows. I suggest what. I don't know,
I'll think of something.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Yeah you suggested, Yeah, I had one in mind that
I was like, surely this is what he's gonna say,
Yellow Jackets. No, I haven't watched that usually. Are you
suggested to be like three days ago? Yeah, I've heard
that's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
I've had usual suggested to me. It looks so good.
I'm trying to finish Eastbound and down right now. Anyway,
are you watching House? I'm nice, nice, I do too, Yes,
I do too. Anyway, So that has been our top
ten day to the end. I'm not going to delay

(01:09:11):
the end of the show. I'm not even going to
introduce the trailer. We're just going to go to the
end of the show because it's been a long ass episode.
Good night. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
First of all, I want to thank Michael Wanfa for coming.
Thank you, thank you for having me in the studio
with us.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Yeah, that was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
I like, yeah, do you have any final thoughts before
we like Benishop not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Really just want to say shout out to Alec in summer.
If you're still yeah, you need to come on here next.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
I'm pretty sure he does, because he messages me occasionally
a like Alice says, yes, very are very good friends.
I also just want to, on a personal note, thank
you guys for sticking with us for two hundred episodes.
We love you. We've been doing this for a very,
very long time. I honestly did not think that we

(01:10:01):
would still be around this. Yeah, we made it. This
is I often say this, this is the longest commitment
I've ever made.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
It. It's fun though, it is fun.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
It is It is a lot of fun. It's just
sitting in a room talking with my friends for like
a couple hours. Did you ask on a Sunday? So
it's been a wild ride. We're not ending the show
that made it sound like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
This on the end of the show.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
We're still put more gas in the car. We got
more episodes to make.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
Subscribe to Patreon.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
We don't mean you can, but it's not Patreon. It's
not we have one. It's yeah, we'll talk about but
on that note. Our sound and editing is by Tiffilman.
Our music is by Jason Zakschevski. The enigma. This has
been the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. We will see you

(01:10:50):
in two weeks. Goodbye bye. Along the highway, it was
as if a wave of evil washed over it with
terrible to some form or another