Episode 203 - Number One Guy In the Group - The Bad Taste Crime Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, why they discovered upon their arrivals unspeakable.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm not doing.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
They did want it's the living. You gotta worry about.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Something. If I couldn't keep them there with me whole,
at least I felt that I could keep their skeletons.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Hello, and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm VICKI,
I'm Rachel back again. Oh my god, welcome back. Okay,
if this is your first time listening as special, hello
to you.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Take your coat, shoes off.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
We don't have a coat room. You wear it. Yeah,
in case you have to leave, in case you worry
about We got an exciting episode I was talking about.
This is accidentally kind of long for me. It's such
a good topic.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
It is.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
It is, thank you. We're just talking about how advanced
I was as a child. Goodbye. I was never I
was never the kid that was in the what did
they call them, like the special class, gifted, gifted? Yeah,
I was never in like the gifted classes.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
I was in that it opted.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
I did honors English me too, but I didn't do humanities.
I think I had award to go into humanities, but
it sounded like way too much worse. Literally, eat like
so I didn't Honors English and Honors Math, but I
wasn't in like the Gifted program.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
It was overrated. It is it is, but still I
just was lazy. I was very, very lazy.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
But I've found my niche now in my adult years
in true crime. That's what my gift is to you.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Oh my god, thank you, thank you for the gime.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
All right, we got a great show for you guys today,
But first let's head over to the newsroom.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Watchings and knows us.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Today we had fifty.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
This week. Our news comes from Potascala, Ohio. Love it Potaskala.
This is actually something from Christmas Day, but she had
a recent update. So on Christmas Day, uh, seventy four
year old Rebecca wester Guard was found dead outside of
her home. She was on her way to go meet

(02:45):
with her family and she didn't arrive, so they did
a welfare check and police went discovered her body and
her property. She had died from blood loss caused by
injuries inflicted by livestock. What yes, So what happened is
on a neighboring property, some pigs had escaped and sort

(03:07):
of like attacked this woman. Oh my god, and she
died from but and she was like, I said, she's
seventy four, so you know, okay, it's couldn't get away.
I know, I say that as my parents are that age.
I'm not saying that's old, but like you know, if
you get knocked over, you don't recover as easily. Yeah.
So yeah, so that's these These pigs had escaped from

(03:29):
a neighboring property. They originally did not file any charges,
but then in January, the pig's owner got charged with
one count of animals at large, which is a misdemeanor.
I know, this is all this animal law that I
didn't even realize was a thing. Just this last week,
last week of April, they were ordered to pay They

(03:51):
pleaded no contest, and then they were ordered to pay
a two hundred dollars fine. They also found out that
since this incident, the pigs have been the youth and
I they were just euthanized at the end of March
at the request of the west Guard family, so the
victims family there weren't any felly charges. They say, this
one has been kind of difficult one because it was

(04:14):
so brutal because somebody died, but also it was difficult
navigating the law because there are very clear in Ohio.
There's very clear law on the books that involve dogs
and like domesticated animals, but they don't necessarily apply to
farm animals and pigs specifically, so.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
It is a different classification. Correct, you can't train right,
Well yeah, no, yeah, oh interesting, right exactly. So I
found my case kind of interesting because I mean, ultimately
they got off with the two hundred dollars. Fine, you know,
do I think that they intentionally let their pigs out
to go attack somebody? No, I don't think that's what happened.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
I a little escaped, yeah, and bring right, and in
the court the courts of some they you know, were
held accountable. But two hundred dollars just seems like such.
But at the same time, like they, like I said,
they voluntarily euthanized the pigs and at the request contest,

(05:14):
so it's not like they were like no, I don't know,
And I do think obviously by euthanizing the pigs, that
is a lot of money that you were out in livestock.
You know, it might not be monetary, but like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Like I don't blame them, but it does seem like
I wish there was something more that could be done.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Right right, I know, it's just just a very interesting case.
Or lady that's so scary, I know, distant oinks. We
are going to move on to Netflix and kill where.
This week we are talking about Till Murder Do Us
Part Soaring the Haysome, which is a crazy story. I've

(05:50):
been putting off watching this for a while, just not
for any specific It was just like was on my
list do the same thing? And then finally I was like, Okay,
you know what, I'm gonna watch this. I'm really glad
that I did because the story is kind of nuts.
Oh my god, have you seen this one yet?

Speaker 2 (06:05):
He I've seen like the previous Yeah, Like as soon
as you said the name.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
So it talks about a nineteen eighty five double homicide
of Nancy and Derek Haysem. The people charged in this
murder were their daughter, Elizabeth and her boyfriend at the time,
Yen Soaring, who was a German. She he was a
German national. She was I believe she was British, okay,

(06:34):
but they she her parents, who were very successful, lived
in the United States. He was going to school here.
He was like incredibly smart, and this takes place in Virginia.
So they were murdered and then they started investigating. Originally

(06:55):
they thought it might have been a third party. I'm sorry.
Elizabeth Haysm is a Canadian citizen, Okay, but she has
a like a British actual not like fake British like
Dareek Kemsley, but like like her parents were actually right.
She's not giving you like the Madonna and yes, staring,
Like I said, he was German. His father was a diplomat.

(07:17):
He was going to the University of Virginia where the
two of them met and started this relationship. A lot
of it happening via letters, which is interesting because there's
a lot of stuff that comes up in the letters.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Gotta love that physical eleven.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, so Elizabeth was not initially a suspect, but they
started questioning her and questioning Yen's and they're talking about
these alibate alibis, and then finally they as they're trying
to question them, Yen's and Elizabeth flee to Europe where

(07:50):
they're like trying to find a way to make money
to stay over there. They're two in some fraud, Okay,
I like some I think like check fraud type things.
Love that, And we're finally actually arrested in England in
nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
We were like, guys, don't do fraud here.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, So once he was arrest Once they were arrested,
Yen's confesses to the murder, later saying his confession to
the murder was essentially a bid for him to go
back to Germany because Germany doesn't have the death penalty
right and he didn't he They were like, we don't
and even Germany was like, we don't want to extradite

(08:27):
him back to the US unless you can guarantee us
that he will not get the death penalty, which they
couldn't for a long time.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Tricky.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
He also was like, I'm very in love with Elizabeth.
I wanted to confess to take all of the credit
for this so that she wouldn't get in trouble. Meanwhile,
Elizabeth is like selling him up the river. She's like,
I told him that I wanted my parents' dead, but
I didn't think he would do it. But I didn't.
I encouraged him to do that. And she did plead

(08:54):
guilty to accessorate a murder. Wow, but she has always said,
but I'm not the one who was there doing what.
Both of them got ninety years or I'm sorry. Elizabeth
got ninety years and Storying got life in prison. But
then YenS is coming out and talking about his innocence.

(09:16):
He's actually in this documentary. Yeah, and there's DNA evidence
that has come out, Like there's evidence after all of
this has gone down that's come out since and like
their stories keep changing, like it's kind of wild. And
in November twenty nineteen, due to all of this stuff,

(09:38):
the Virginia State Parole Board granted both of them parole.
They didn't say that either one was innocent, but they
had both been serving time on good behavior. There was
this question of like they really wanted to parole Yen's
but they didn't feel like they could parole him without
parolling her and ultimate twisty Yeah, and ultimately we're both

(10:00):
deported because they're not US citizens. So once they were paroled,
they deported them back to Elizabeth went back to Canada,
went back to Germany, where he was like greeted the
Germans very much are like he did not do this,
and so he was sort of greeted. He was greeted
by like the German police and they were they were like,

(10:20):
welcome home, you're here free man, like yeah, which could be.
I mean, there's very compelling evidence that he didn't do this, Okay,
but they're both banned from the United States now. So
it's just it is just like wild, Like the story
has so many twists and turns, and like I said,
because of the changing stories and like, it is just

(10:44):
like it's really kind of weird. I don't I think
this is gonna be one of those cases where you're
probably never gonna know what actually happened. But definitely watch.
It's only four episodes, that crazy. Yeah, definitely check it out.
Some of it is subtitled because some of it is
in like Germany. I love that, yes, and with subtitles.

(11:05):
YenS is doing his interviews obviously from Germany, and I
believe Elizabeth was contacted, but she pretty much does not
speak about the crime, and she's even gone to great
lengths to make sure that when he is speaking about
the murders that he does not speak about her, Like
she had her attorneys go after him wow with like
seasoned desist and stuff. So there's times where he's like, well,

(11:26):
I can't comment on that because I'm not allowed to
talk about I don't know.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
So she has very much wanted to stay out of
depress and not do any interviews, but he's out here
being like, look, I'm here to talk about people Broun
fully convicted.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
So he's like, girl, they caught me. I can't do
fraud for money. I have to do interviews, right, right,
what do you want to do?

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, And he has since become like an advocate in Germany,
so like it's a it's just a very interesting case.
It's just a very interesting case. Highly recommend it, Glad
that I watched it. Yes, And that is until Murder
do us part staring the Haysome, check it out, love it,
step part of the show, or say content may not

(12:03):
be appropriate for a listeners. I there's a lot. I mean,
I'm definitely gonna be talking about murder. We're gonna be
talking about abuse, abusive relationships, big part of mine. So
if any of that is triggering to you, maybe it's
not for you.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
I've got mine. There's some there's some children in peril
for sure, Definitely some murder, Definitely some shootout type situations.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Yeah, yeah, So today I wanted to look at some
hostage situations. Such a good topic because these come about
for a number of reasons. Normally it's a desperation ploy Yeah,
but I mean you've heard of them in bank robberies,
in war zones, in robberies gone wrong, as revenge plots.

(13:00):
I mean, there's like, these hostage situations come up in anything,
like it could be anything. It's not like one driving thing.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
It's like, oh, What'll I do now, Well, I guess
I'll just take a person, right.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's the only bargaining ship you got, right much. So
I wanted to look at some of those. And we
are going to start off with a man named Joseph C. Polchinsky.
What a character this guy is, What a character? My god.
So I tried to find some information about his early

(13:32):
life because it is with some of the mental health stuff,
like kind of crucial, right, but a lot of it
like contributes to why some of his eventual crimes are
so heinous. But there isn't actually too much about how
he grew up because it was pretty normal. Oh, there's
an interesting article from Boston University that does provide some insight. However, So,

(13:57):
according to this article, Paulshinski came from a loving household
that didn't have any abuse whatsoever. Like I mean, it
was a very average upbringing. But at some point in
his teenage years. They described Pulchinsky as quote suddenly turning
violent and unpredictable just days after a severe head injury.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Oh, I was literally thinking, I'm like, I wonder if
he played sports he had gotten a head injury. Head injury.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, And the family has definitely been open about saying this.
Really his demeanor and personality changed a lot after this
head injury.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
What happened. I couldn't really find specifically like what happened,
but it happened. The family also did, after this happened,
take him to be evaluated, and he was hospitalized for
a period of time. While he was there in the
mental health facility began treating him for bipolar disorder, including
trying a lot of medications and combinations of medications. For

(14:54):
people with mental health struggles, they know, like the right
cocktail is tricky. It's a process to find something that
works for you. And this would have been in like
the eighties, that's what Okay, Yeah, it would have been
in the like the end of the seventies into the

(15:15):
into the eighties, so like they were not I mean,
the drugs that they were throwing at mental health things
were crazy, like it was yeah, yeah, it was not
the right stuff and has been honed more nowadays. But
none of these like cocktails or medications or whatever really

(15:36):
seemed to work. And even if they did, it doesn't
seem like he was that interested in taking medication, Okay,
and especially with bipolar like that is something you really
need to do, really when you can find the right
cocktail like chemicals. Yes. Yes, So there's also this fantastic

(15:56):
two part series about Paulchinski from the Dart Center for
Journalists and Trauma that details some of the early life
stuff and honestly most of my research is from that.
Did you watch that? This great? It's actually it's a
two part article series.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Okay, oh uh huh yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Really really interesting. I'll definitely link it in the show
notes do so. Paulchinsky was described as being quite the
ladies man, with Dart saying quote he had GQ good
looks or had GQ looks, a buff body and expensive
sports car, money to burn, and a questionable pash past
that clung to him like cologne phraising you know. So

(16:40):
he is often described as this kind of like playboy
at this dark past you didn't talk about, which made
him mysterious and yeah yeah, yeah, yep, I mean been there.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
That.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah. At this time he was where handsl light lifeguard
and he was very much like as one Jax Taylor
might say, he was the number one guy in the group.
Oh he was, you know what I mean, he was
like yeah, he was kind of like there was this
group of guys that all hung out with, Like he
was kind of the leader, you know.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, yeah, he was the cool guy, the cool guy. Wow. Yeah.
But it wasn't just his looks that attracted the young ladies.
Palchinsky seemed to be a romantic too, and would love
bomb women with like flowers and horseback riding and picnic
lunches and endless compliments. It was also romantic, so romantic.

(17:40):
Polschinsky's first big offense came after he began dating fifteen
year old Amy Gearhart. No Paalschinski was a senior. He
would have been about eighteen nineteen at this time, and
the two dated for about five months. During this time,
there were things that were pretty obvious red flags, despite

(18:02):
the polite front that he would put on for Amy's parents,
which he did this a lot, like he present one
face to people who mattered, but behind closed doors he
was a totally different person, which is.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Totally I mean, not to generalize, but that does seem
to be something that bipolar people are very good at.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like the mask gang.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yes, absolutely, yeah, until they aren't anymore, you know what
I mean, until it's like which we'll find out.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, we will spoiler the way. It doesn't always work. Yeah,
so the red flags. Okay. At some point Amy had
discovered this stash of guns Paulchinski kept under his bed.
Concerning a little bit, there also been times where he
had talked about having two personalities, where he's like, I

(18:49):
have two personalities inside me, you know what I mean,
like that kind of yeah, which seems just like you're
being deep, when really he's talking about his mental illness,
Like yeah, yeah, I thought you were just being deep,
but yeah, really was so serious. You were trying to
tell these all of my fifteen fifteen Yeah. Then one

(19:11):
night in July nineteen eighty seven, Amy was hanging out
with some kids in Ocean City while she was on
vacation with her family. There was it was like these
group of kids, they gotten ice cream. They were just
like hanging out in a parking lot on the beach,
you know what I mean, very cute. Just as she
was so she was feeding another boy a bit of
ice cream. Out of nowhere, Polchinsky shows up. Oh god,

(19:33):
she's on vacation right with her family. Shows up, knocks
her to the ground, begins beating her while everybody else
is like trying to intervene. They call the police. The
police show up and scared that he might do something again,
Amy doesn't really say anything, and this is again from
the Dark Center quote. Meanwhile, Pelchinsky calmly told the officers

(19:56):
he was looking for his watch and ring, which he
had lost in the parking lot.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
So police are like, it's like, I'm just looking for Yeah,
He's like, sorry, we were just she fell while we were.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
All over my fist. Don't even worry about it. Yeah.
So they leave thinking everything's fine. They're like, fuck you
eighties police. Then then Polchinsky they leave. Poltschinski led Adam
and another boy that was with them down to the beach.
He was like forcing them to hold hands like pushing
them forward. They walked toward the Delaware Line. Polshinski was

(20:28):
screaming about Amy ruining his life, and when they arrived
at the fence at the line, he started threatening the
teens that he would break their legs.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
The boy somehow manages to escape and he runs for
help and leaving Annie alone. Paulchinski continues threatening to kill her,
threatening to kill her family. But somehow Amy was able
to break free and she heads towards this group of
men who were fishing okay, telling them what had happened.
By now, she has obvious marks and bruises everything. But

(21:00):
again Paulchinsky goes up. He calmly talks his way out.
He's like, we just got into an argument, like just
got a little heated.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
It's giving Jeffrey Dahmer.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
That will come up, Oh my, that will come Yeah. Yeah,
I think I say the same thing about No. It's
like very Jeffrey Dahmer. Yeah. He He's like, if it'll
make you feel any better, Like we need to talk
this out. This is our relationship. We need to talk
this out. Also, they're teenagers, right, They're like, if it'll
make you feel better, We're gonna talk it out, but
I'll go stand under that street light so you can
have a clear view of Like you can see that

(21:30):
I'm not doing anything.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
We're just talking about Yeah, this guy sucks. Yeah yeah.
So they go up. He has this period of like regret.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I love you, baby,
I'm so sorry. Yeah, that, which happens a lot. Yep.
And at some point after this, presumably, Amy returns back
to her parent where her parents were saying and she
was taken to the hospital where they found contusions of
the left ear drum, lacerations and swell on the cheek

(22:00):
and nose, contusion on the right eye, and that hemorrhage
and bruised ribs. She's just a baby, yes, yeah, And
at her mother's urging, Amy decides to press charges. Yeah,
which is great. Good. I will say the amount of
times people decide to follow through impress charges in the
story is incredible, which is great. Good. Yeah, it's great

(22:23):
if it works. Well, yeah, I know, Okay, So she goes,
she pressed charges. Vacation unds. Amy goes back to school
and discovers that Paulchinsky is now dating somebody new. Sixteen
year old Kimberly girl. Shortly after they start dating, she
gets back she realizes he's dating this girl Kim. Kim

(22:43):
comes to Amy and asks for advice after Paulchinsky had
given her a black eye. Amy told her get a
restraining order, file police report because this guy is fucking
crazy and it sounds like that's exactly exactly what she did.
Again from the Dart Center. Quote from a charging document
filed by Kimberly's mother October eighteenth, nineteen eighty seven. Joseph C.

(23:06):
Palchinsky searched through Kim's bedroom without permission when she was
in the shower. While searching, he found birth control pills.
The discovery of these pills made Joseph very angry because
he did not want her taking them. As a result,
he began to slap Kim several times in the face
with both open and open hand and a backhand, resulting
in a black eye and bruising of the right and

(23:26):
left cheekbones. After a series of slaps in the face,
Joseph then punched Kim in the stomach, knocking her to
her knees. He continued to threaten Kim, stating that if
she didn't do what he said he would do it again.
And wow, that's from the police port. What a piece
of shit. The other police report that was filed in
nineteen eighty eight said quote, Joseph pulled kimberly into the

(23:47):
bathroom at his house owned by his grant, he was
living with his grandmother at the time, stating that he
wanted to have sex with her. When she refused, he
became very angry and very forceful. Joseph punched her with
a closed fist, causing multiple bruises along Kim's breastbone. Then
exited the bathroom, went into a closet and got a
razor blade. He then proceeded to threaten Kim, saying, if
you don't come here and talk to me, I'll beat

(24:08):
you some more. Whether my grandmom lives is here or not.
Oh my god. Yeah, so this is like behind closed
doors when he's not in front of parents. This is
what's happening.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
He's an animal.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yes, it's the other side of him.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah really, yeah, the.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Puppy you see. Yeah yeah, yeah. No, he was like
incredibly abusive, very incredibly and he when he was like
doing these beatings, it seemed like he liked to punch
them in the chest, like in the breastbone. That was
a that's a really common thing that comes up a
lot where he's just like punching them in the chest.
Oh yeah, that's awful. Yeah, yeah, he's a piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, I don't like him, no good instincts.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
That's a great instinct. So Kim's charges were the first
to be tried, and Paulchinsky was two years of supervised probation.
This was followed shortly by Amy's charges that were going
to trial in January nineteen eighty nine. But he knew,
like with these other charges on Kim's stuff, that it

(25:13):
was not going to be good for him, So he
he tried to plead guilty, not guilty by reason of insanity,
Oh my god, whatever, But a psychiatrist found that he
was fit to stand trial, and Paulchinski was ultimately sentenced
to four years in prison. Of that four years, he
served two which included an escape attempt at some point.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Oh and they were just like you scammed.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, he did get extra I think he got sentenced
to probation and that specific on the escape charges. That's
crazy because later he violates that. But it's like not,
it's not that like the Kim Amy stuff. It's like
the escape attempt probation that he violated later. Yeah, yeah,

(25:56):
so I think he just got probation for that. But
so they let him out after two years. Pelchinsky was
released in April nineteen ninety one at the age of
twenty two and returned to living with his mom and
his stepdad. They are very supportive throughout this whole thing,
kind of giving him whatever he wants. Yeah. Yeah, there's

(26:17):
a bit of tension in the house because his parents
were like not totally down with him continuing to date
high school age girls.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
What a couple of theirs.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
I can't believe it. Wow. But it wasn't going to
be their problem for very long because in August, Pelchinski
moves into an apartment with two other roommates and starts
stating a girl named Sharon who's seventeen years old. Yeah
that's too young. Yes, he was twenty two. Ew. It
wasn't long before the assistant principle of Sharon's school was

(26:49):
asking him not to trespass on the grounds to see her,
But his ugly temper reared its head again and Polchinsky
attacked Sharon on school grounds. This is another exit from
the charging document from November nineteen ninety one. Quote. I
believe this is a Sharon's statement. Quote. We were arguing
in front of the school. I proceeded into the school.

(27:09):
He came running after me. He pushed me up against
the wall. I pleaded with him not to hit me,
But the next thing I knew, I was on the
ground screaming. He had also threatened. He has also threatened
to kill my threatened my parents to kill them and
me and leave me living to suffer. He said if
he goes to jail, he will kill me or get
someone to hurt me. He has gotten people to come
to my house before. This is not the first time

(27:29):
he has hurt me. But before he only pushed me
and pulled me by my hair.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh my god, this poor girl, I know, like terrified.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah. So Paulchinsky's arrested, released on bail, ordered not to
contact Sharon. But knowing again he's got these priors now
he was under threat of going back to jail. He
really didn't want that. Polchinsky repeatedly calls and threatens to
kill Sharon if she doesn't drop the charges. Yeah, of course,
it's like, please drop them. Please drop them, and she's like, no,

(28:00):
but I love you, Please drop that. Yeah, like crazy,
And it does seem like he intended to act on
these threats too, because Paul Chinsky bought an Inland M
one thirty one thirty caliber rifle from a pawn shop
and told his friends that he was planning to shoot
up Sharon's school. Oh my god, Yeah, I'm just amazing

(28:20):
as friends, I know, but it doesn't sound It sounds
like his friends are kind of delinquents also, because these
are the people he gets to talk into, like harassing
right people while he's in and they obviously weren't like, hey, police,
he's planning on doing all of these crimes. They were
like and who knows if he he may have, even
like if they had something they needed taken care of,

(28:42):
they'd be like, well, we can call Joe and he'll
help us out because he's a little unstable, you.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Know, I know, I think I've met these guys.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
So Sharon reports all of this harassment to the police,
which results in additional charges and Polschinski was arrested a
second time for all of this, and this time he
was denied bail. Staff at the jail found some of
Polschinski's behavior concerning, and they send him for a psyche val.

(29:12):
This came back showing bipolar mood disorder and depression, something
he probably already knew. It seems like that. After only
two days at the facility, Polchinsky escaped and went on
the run with ID card stolen from a friend. Dude,
you got to stay there. That's what prison is. I mean,
it was a mental health facility hill. Yes, yes, like

(29:35):
a high security one. But yeah, he was like by
now a fugitive. Polschinsky turns up a month later in
January nineteen ninety two in Idaho, where he was accused
of assaulting a fifteen year old girl and threatening to
kill her brother. During the investigation, police in Idaho were
contacted by police in Maryland saying they thought that Polschinsky

(29:59):
was in the area. He was likely armed and dangerous,
which leads to this standoff with police. Paulchinsky barricades him
himself inside an apartment. He's threatening to shoot people in
the nearby parking lot and shoot himself. The standoff last
sixteen hours. A SWAT team used teargas to apprehend him

(30:19):
and returned him to Maryland to stand trial for assaulting Sharon.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
This guy just has zero impulse control.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Literally, it just does literally, which is why I think
a lot of hostage situations happen because it's like.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Oh shit, oh shit, yeah, oh I do now, Yeah,
this is a plan.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, so that happened. Now again, Poulchinsky's legal team took
the stance that he was not guilty by reason of insanity,
and he was sent to the Federal Correctional Institution in
Virginia for a month long mental health evaluation. Okay, but
the entire time he was playing the system this whole

(30:57):
time again from the Darts Center quote. In the court
of his evaluation, Paulchinsky told federal the federal psychologist that
he had illegally purchased the gun at the pawn shop
to kill the ninjas who were trying to kill him.
When he cut his wrist twice, once deeply enough to
require stitches, he told the psychologist a voice told him

(31:17):
to do it whatever. Later, Paulchinsky would boast to girlfriends
that he had cut himself to fool the system. Yeah.
End quote, Right, so he knew.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
He knew what he was wiring.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, but all of this seemed to convince the people
at the facility because he was diagnosed with paranoid type
schizophrenia and was found not guilty on federal weapons charges. Yeah, however,
he was required to undergo mandatory treatment at a government
facility and makes a full recovery fifteen months later. Amazing

(31:50):
from the thing he definitely does not have.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Right.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
They're like, oh my god, it's a miracle. He's like, yeah,
I never had it in the fucking first. He don't
hear voices anymore.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
That's wild, Like, oh, yeah, I forgot it. We cured
your skitzophriend, because that's a thing I know.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
I'm literally so many.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Oh don't worry, there's more. Oh great, there's more. Yes,
remember I told you this was accidentally.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Really lock it's so he's so crazy.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Yeah. So Polchinski shows up again in nineteen ninety five,
when he, at twenty seven years old, begins dating seventeen
year old Michela Osbourne. God damn it. Now. Mickela also
has a daughter, and Paulchinsky seemed well put together, polite,

(32:37):
He really like steps into this dad world. He seems
to really care about her child. But again, there's these
red flags that Mickella's dad, Gary, notices during their relationship
Polchinsky seemed controlling, and on more than one occasion, Gary
had noticed him hiding in the bushes out side of

(33:00):
their house to spy to see if Michella was doing
the things that he told her not to do.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Oh no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
And they talk about things like smoking cigarettes, taking birth control.
He's just like creeping in the bushes to watch her.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
I would have turned the hose on. Yeah, get out
of my fucking yard.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
And he caught it more than once, Yeah, more than once.
He that. So after this, Mikayla or around this time,
Michaela started coming home with bruises, and when she was
questioned about them, it was revealed that Paulchinsky had lied
about his age. She had originally said he was twenty three,
not twenty seven. Just kind of a big difference, big difference,

(33:40):
and mckella claimed she had gotten the bruises after falling
from a ladder. Babe, I know, I know. Gary eventually
has enough, he's he tells Paulchinski to leave his house.
He's like, don't come back. This results in a physical
altercation and Gary ended up in the hospital with four
broken ribs and a split lip that had to get stitches.

(34:00):
Then that Christmas, Michella and Paulchinsky spent time with both
of their families, like did the whole holiday family rotation.
And she was like, I'm kind of tired. I think
I just want to go stay at my dad's house
instead of going back with Paulchinsky to his apartment. She's like,
i just want to stay in my dad's house. I'm
really tired. Well Jack that yeah, They just like, go ahead, babe, Yeah,

(34:25):
whatever you want, it's fine. No, they start arguing, and
Paulchinsky escalates things to a violent confrontation, choking mckella and
slamming her head against the wall. In defense, Mickella scratches
his face, but it draws blood and bleeds onto this
sweatshirt that she's wearing, which then turned into Paulchinsky demanding

(34:50):
she removed this stain. She's like frantically trying to remove
this blood stain from it sounded like a brand new,
like white type of thing. She can't get it out.
She's like frantic when she failed to remove it. He
beat Mickella. He's spewing threat after her threat about killing
her killing her family. So she says that this is

(35:12):
all happening in his apartment. She stays there. The next morning,
she begs Paul Schinsky to let her go to work.
She's like, I'm the breadwinner. You need to let me
go to work. So Paulchinsky takes mckella to work, watches
from his car to make sure she's staying there, and
was there for a while, and then he finally leaves.
But when he leaves, Michlla takes the opportunity. She goes

(35:35):
back to her father's house and they immediately call police.
Good and because Paul Schinsky is still in probation, Oh
thank goodness, he gets arrested immediately. Now from jail, Paulchinsky
harasses Michella. He's like, you need to get your dad
to drop these charges because again these are minors, so
like the parents are the ones filing charges and a

(35:57):
lot of these he says, just trying to come between
right right, She's like, you need it. He's like, you
need to convince your dad drop these charges. When that
didn't work, he instead turned to another teenage girl that
he was dating behind Michaela's back stop, a seventeen year
old Lisa Anderson. Yeah, he was out here fucking everybody. Yeah. Lightly, Yeah.

(36:21):
She falls in love with with this man who she
thinks is twenty two, but when he gets sent to jail,
she like finds out he gets sent to jail to
a wait trial. She becomes hopelessly devoted to him. She was.
It starts as cutting class in high school to like
take his phone calls because you'd call it all ours
a day, And finally she drops out of high school

(36:42):
to spend as much time as she can with him
at the jailhouse on visits and going back and forth visiting.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Where are your parents?

Speaker 3 (36:50):
She was living with like a friend of his, Oh
my god. Yeah, Paulchinsky took these opportunities to be his
normal abusive self. She'd show up and he'd just like
be insulting her the entire time and be like, but
I'm sorry, babe, I really love you. I'm I'm so sorry.
It's just I'm really stressed out because I'm in jail,
like very just because my own action. Classic abusive relationship. Yeah.

(37:12):
Little did Lisa know that he had hatched a scheme
to attempt to intimidate Gary into dropping the charges, and
she was a key part of that. So in April
nineteen ninety six, Paulchinsky convinced Lisa to file false charges
against Gary, claiming that he had threatened to blow up
her house if she testified in Pulchinsky's favor.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
And she lied about her age because she was a minor.
She lied about her age. Nobody verified her age when
she filed these because she technically can't file charges as
a minor, right, She was like, yeah, he threatened to
blow out my house. So Gary, Gary gets arrested nine
days later for making bomb threats and I'm seeing comments
over the phone. This happens three more times with her sister, also,

(37:58):
Lisa Anderson's sister being one that filed false charges twice. Yeah,
to be like, he just keeps calling us to blow
us up, and they keep going back and just arresting.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Him, and he's like please yeah, but this, despite all
of this, he refuses to drop the charges.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
All of these charges were against Gary, so he kept
going in and having to post bail and going in
and having to post bail. But eventually Lisa's sister admits
that these are all false charges and they were all
eventually dropped. Gary does sue them, both of them, and
so this is all kind of happening in the background.

(38:33):
In the midst of all of this, Paul Schinsky pleads
guilty to battery and witness intimidation and receives a suspended sentence.
Released but he's out. Why That's what I'm saying, Like
people are actively filing police reports and stuff, and he
doesn't fucking matter. He just keeps getting out. It's the
eight I mean, well, now it's the nineties. I guess

(38:53):
to say it's the eighties, but no, this is the nineties.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
I am fuming.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
There's more. There's more. Paulchinsky moves on to his next relationship,
sixteen year old Stacy Kulata, who he met in the
summer of nineteen ninety six. Now, Stacy was aware that
he had just been sentenced in this battery case, but
she was in love and she thought he was a
changed man. He's really changed.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I can tell guys, it's believable, right. Yeah, Stacy's parents
were not fans. Yeah, the parents in these cases are
like seeing all of the shit.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
It's just like parents know things, right, I know sometimes sometimes.
So they were not fans of his and they had
found some things out on their own about his past
and about how many times he had been like charge
and stuff, and they were urging her to leave him. Eventually,
Paulchinsky confess goes to Stacy, confesses everything as far as

(39:58):
like how many times he's been charged, all of the
stuff in his past. Then he's like, we need to
start taping your parents' phone calls because I need to
know how much they know about me, because if they
know too much, we might have to like take care
of them.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
What what?

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, Oh my god. Yeah, because he realizes that that
Stacy's like getting this information from her parents, Like, oh, well,
clearly you just cut it off the source. Yeah, because
he's just because he is just assuming nobody is smart
enough to look into his background. They're just going to
trust whatever he's saying. So narcissis. Yeah, So he's like,
we need to start tapping their phone. His mood swings

(40:36):
start showing up and getting worse and worse, and like
many times before, he starts becoming controlling. He starts beating Stacy.
On more than one occasion, he was still doing this
creeping from the bushes things. By the way, after all
of this ended with Gary and mckella. Gary pulled all
the bushes out of their Hell yeah, every single bush
on the popperty gone nope, yeah, yeah, that was smart. Yeah.

(40:58):
So he's hiding in the bushes doing this bush's thing
to Thekladas, and the neighbors actually notice and they tell
the Klada is this like, do you realize that there's
this guy? Because he was like SI your landscape. He
would like park down the street and then like stand
on the corner in the neighborhood and then creep over
to their house and hide in the bushes. And they're like,
do you realize this guys doing this so weird? So

(41:20):
they and they had noticed, yeah, and they're trying to
take care of it internally. They try to tell their
daughter that she's in an abusive relationship. Yeah, and it
caused a lot of tension in their relationship, as it
probably would. They asked Paul Chitsky to stay away. He
says no. Finally, the Kladas file a no contact petition,

(41:41):
something that ended up not being needed thanks to Paul
Chitzy o in a jail for violating his probation after
getting convicted in the Michella Osbourne case. So it takes
a little bit for the system catch up. Right, The
Mickella Osbourne case caused a parole violation on the federal
weapons charges or not the federal opens charges on the
other one. Whatever the other one was, so yeah, so

(42:03):
he gets sends to three years in jail. Wow. While
he's in jail, Paulchinsky tried to continue his relationship with Stacy,
who thought he was her soulmate. Oh Stacy, but after
she found out that he was. On the other hand,
he was going around and was like, Yeah, I'm dating
all these girls. This one's just like another notch on

(42:25):
my bell, another notch on my bedpost. Yeah. She finds
this out and is like he was telling people the
relationship was a big joke, and yeah, she she wrote
to Paulchinsky breaking off the relationship. Shortly after, Stacy began
getting harassed by Pulchinsky, who would follow her. He would
have people follow her to and from work and leave

(42:46):
notes on her, call on her car and do like
hang up calls, so she like answered, nobody there and
they just hang up. But like all the time, Jesus.
But once Paul Schinsky was released from prison in June
nineteen ninety eight, he left Stacy behind, just like everybody
else yep, moves on to his next thing.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
In the summer of nineteen ninety eight, Polchinsky met twenty
year old Tracy Whitehead, the first adult aged person over eighteen. Yeah.
I know, so he meets twenty year old Tracy Whitehead.
And again, Tracy knew about some of his past. She
knew that he had gone to jail for assault and

(43:25):
that he had some mental health strugglesy But she when
he said she was different and I never You're different
than all the other girls. I never hurt you, she
believed him. This would also be actually Pulchinski's longest relationship.
It lasted about eighteen months before things finally like before

(43:47):
she hits a fan. Yeah. But over the course of
their relationship, there were times when Polchinsky became very abusive,
ranging from taunting insults to beating her. On more than
one occasion, there was one sort of like final big
argument between the two of them when Paul Chinsky, I

(44:09):
don't know if it was I mean, it's entirely likely
that it was true, but tells Tracy, I've been cheating
on you like I've been cheating on you with whoever Wow,
And while she she gets upset, she's storming out. While
she storms out, she's like, well, I've been cheating on
you too, which he's like, fucking no way. Yeah, so
she's like, I've been cheating on you too. Tracy went

(44:29):
to a bar, calls him from the bar to like
rub it in, by the way, I've been cheating with
this person, and blah blah blah, to like taunt him
because she was so pissed. But when she returns home,
like he had pulled all of her stuff out. It
was thrown all around the apartment, some of it destroyed.
So she saved up her money for a couple of

(44:52):
weeks and then decided to sign a lease on a
new apartment. She's like, I'm getting the fuck out of here. However,
there was a weak gap between when the apartment would
be available, so she and she did not want to
stay there for another week, so instead she ends up
staying with a coworker so she could kind of get
out of this violent situation. Which good for you, girl, Yeah,

(45:12):
absolutely good for you. She does all this while Paulchinsky's
at work. She goes home, she packs all her things
and leaves, so he comes home and she's gone. Yep.
Paulchinsky went into a rage and finds Tracy at this
co worker's place. After some intense questioning, Paulchinsky pulled Tracy

(45:33):
inside by her hair once again. Once inside, he began
to beat her and then told her to call into
work to let them know that she was not coming
back to work. She was at work and saw him
and ran to this co worker's house to like hide.
So when he called, luckily, the coworker that answered is

(45:53):
the one she had been staying with, who was aware
of her situation. Yeah, So she called her and said, hey,
I'm not coming back, and she asked yes or no questions?
Uh huh smart, and Tracy was able to indicate, yes,
you need to call police. She was like, do you
need to call police? And she just said yes, Like
she was able to answer yes or no question. So

(46:14):
good front. I know, I know. This is the thing.
I'm like every everybody pretty much did what they should
do in these situations. Yeah. Fuck the system, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, the whole damn system is wrong.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
So they call police, who go to the residents. Paulchinsky's arrested.
He's released the next day on bail. A few days
after he was arrested, Pelchinsky shows up at Tracy's work
begging to talk to her, and she's refusing. Now, at
the time, Tracy was on her way to Gloria and
George Shank's apartment, where she had been staying until her

(46:48):
place was ready. This is all still within the week
before she moved into her own place. I know, I know.
So she goes there, she'd been home for a few hours.
They were watching TV. Paulchinsky shows up at the house
armed with guns, demanding Tracy leave with him. When she
didn't answer, Paul Schinsky shot Gloria and George, killing them.

(47:12):
Oh my god. Paulchinsky then dragged Tracy by the feet
out of the apartment. Her screaming alerted a neighbor who
attempted to intervene, but was also shot by Paul Sshinsky.
So he kidnaps Tracy, oh my god, puts her into
his mom's van and drives out to some nearby woods,

(47:32):
where he beats her and threatens her. She then leads
her through the woods to this vacant camper where he
rapes her, and then they stay there for the night.
Because now she's he's got guns.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
She's too afraid where shes gonna go? There in the woods, right, Yeah,
so it isolated, I know, it's crazy. The next morning,
in a weird turn of events, Paul Chinsky, so they
stay in this camper and then he takes this blanket
from the camper outside and makes this like bed on

(48:08):
the ground outside. Okay, and then he proposes to her
the next morning, so like it seemed like his rage
had calmed down. I'm sure this was a regret cycle probably,
And now he's worried, did I go too far?

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Am I going to lose her? Well? I can't lose
her if she's if she's gonna get married to me.
So he proposes to her, puts the ring on her finger.
She does say yes to placate him like pointing a
gun over her at the same you know she did honestly,
she went along with a lot of this and it
was a smart move to just what else could she do?
You don't want to make it mad? Yeah, and it

(48:43):
did buy her definitely. Sometime. They eventually needed to find food, right,
so the two of them they go into town where
Paul Chinsky steals a car they ditched the one car
that they stole to steal a different car, this time
in at tenp to like intimidate the person in this car,
he shoots off his gun. He doesn't shoot it at
the person, but he shoots it off. Unfortunately, the bullet

(49:07):
ricocheted into thirty six year old Jennifer Lynn McDonald, who
was pregnant at the time. She also had a two
year old daughter, unfortunately killing her and I believe the
baby did not survive. From there, they got food in
McDonald's before going to a hotel for the night. They
go to the hotel, the churn on the TV. He's

(49:28):
tucking all over it, right right all over it. Both
Paulchinsky and Tracy realized that there was this manhunt thanks
to this carnage. He was literally just not cleaning up.
He left everything. Yeah, shoots these people in the apartment,
shoots the guy outside the apartment, leaves, shoot they. I mean,
I don't think that he had intended to kill somebody

(49:50):
during the carjacking, but he didn't try to cover it up. No,
And when Tracy realized, oh now this woman is dead.
Now that's four murders in the span. You know, very
much a spreak, spree killing. He's just chasing the dragon.
He's just going from one thing to the next. Yeah, yeah,
that's crazy Paulchinsky. They so they see this on the

(50:10):
news and they're like, fuck, we got to get out
of here. Well, Paulchinsky's like, fuck, we got to get
out of here.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
By the time they realized this and walk out to
the parking lot, police were already there.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Right.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
Of course, Tracy runs towards the police, and paul Chinsky
runs away from the police, right, So he escapes and
he will be on the run for another nine days
before he shows up again. But Tracy was able to
get to the police.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Now during this time, Paulchinsky was making his way back
to the Baltimore area via carjacking. He just kept like
carjacking people. And Tracy had been placed in a hotel.
Originally her location was not disclosed, right, but after everything unfolded,
it was so she was at like a holiday inn

(50:55):
under twenty four hour surveillance. Because there seems to be
this pattern, right of Kolchinski returning to handle things that
he was forced to go to jail for. I'm scared
knowing the police. So the police realized this. They were like, okay,
all of this happened with Tracy, we think he might

(51:17):
be going back to her house in Baltimore. They start
setting up perimeters on all the major roadways in the area.
He somehow seemed to break through one of these barriers somehow,
and on March seventeenth, two thousand, he went to the
home of Tracy's mom, Lynn Whitehead, and her boyfriend Andrew

(51:41):
McCord and their twelve year old son, Bradley mccorm Oh no,
not realizing who this man was or like what he
was doing there, Bradley the young boy let him in.
Oh no, that's men in the house. Big mistake, because
Paul was armed to the teeth multiple guns. He was

(52:02):
at the end of his rope, and he begins a
standoff that would last almost four days total, still one
of the longest standoffs by a single man in like history.
Oh wow, yeah, at least in US history. So Paulchinski
takes a family hostage, occasionally firing his gun I imagine,

(52:23):
wildly into the air. Probably sometimes he was just like
firing out of the house at who knows what whatever
they talk about. He had flattened the tire on one
of the police trucks that was like kind of nearby.
Uh huh. Police immediately evacuated the neighborhood because this was
like a residential area.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Right, I feel like, everybody get out of the way.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Yeah, they evacuate everybody. They send the residents to this
nearby elementary school. But obviously nobody realizes this is going
to last for four days, right, Hey, so they're there,
but like as time is going on, people are becoming
more agitated. They're like, what the fuck is happening? Like,
why have police not solved this? Yeah, but they were
saving a lot of criticism about their handling. You're you're

(53:05):
gonna hate this next part if you didn't already hate
all of these already. There was this inner perimeter set
up by authorities. But again, like after a couple of
days of being stuck in this elementary school, some people
started to break through the perimeter. I'm as my assumption
would be to go to their houses to get stuff.
All these people were arrested. A nearby house was taken

(53:28):
over by the Baltimore County Tactical Squad to monitor the
hostage situation and help with somewhat failing negotiations. The house
had a dog in it that kept barking, and so
they shot it all. I know. That was the part
I thought you were gonna hate, which is like they
were because they were telling residents like, we can't get

(53:49):
your pets out, like this is not you know, like
we're in the but like, I don't know, I would
I would have sued the police if I too, because
I know killed, I know, yeah, not good. So this
is all happening, and this causes a lot of criticism
for the police later, like they're kind of handling of
from everybody. Okay. So the only demand that Paul Chinski

(54:15):
ever made to police was to speak to Tracy. He's like,
I just want to talk to Tracy. But authorities worried
that if they granted this request that he would kill
everyone when he got what he wanted, or worse, kill
everyone to force Tracy to listen to it on the phone,
which is like one act one final act of torture

(54:36):
in control.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Right. Absolutely the thought, I mean, I thought that's just
wild to be, but I think they're right to.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure's sick And if that's
the only thing that is demanding. You never go into
a hostage negotiation automatically just giving them everything they demand, especially.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Because what do you have right? Right?

Speaker 3 (54:56):
So this stretches on for days, and the adults in
the house finally are like, they decide to take matters
into their own hands. Okay, So they use some xanax
they have in the house that they drug a glass
of iced tea clever, and they give it to Paul
Chinski because they're just like surviving in the house, eating,

(55:19):
drinking whatever, The four of them just.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Trying not to get in his way.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
I'm sure. Once he had fallen asleep, Andrew the boyfriend
went out the front window, making a ton of noise
in the process. They were like so worried that he
was going to wake up, But even with all the
noise and shit that he was making, he did not
wake up. He was followed shortly by Lynn out of
the same window.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
What's the problem, Rachel the kid through the window for
what's the problem?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
No, how about we just leave him?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Oh my god, why they leave the twelve year old
boy behind?

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Now? They Lynn and Andrew received very very heavy criticism
about this and follow from everyone, literally from everyone. They
say that They were worried that if Bradley were to
wake up and make a bunch of noise while they
were trying to escape, that it would send Paulchinski into

(56:15):
a rage and he would have killed all of them. No,
so instead they were like, it's better to have the
adults escape and let police handle getting a child.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
They've done a great job so far. Wellcause you're all
still trapped in the house.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Here's the thing. I'm not condoning this choice, right. I
think the dragging with the xanax was brilliant, super smart.
It was brilliant. But so this is a bad choice.
It was a bad choice. Let me just say that
right off the bat. However, it had probably maybe an

(56:50):
unintended side effect of now the child is the only
one in the house. Police and swat teams were like,
oh fuck, we need to get in there now because
now he's the only one left, right, right, more urgent
when it's just a child.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Absolutely, so right, not a great decision, but it did
sort of speed up the timeline for police as far
as going actually physically going in, so they send in
the swat team for the boy's safety when they break
into the house.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Uh, it was reported that Paulchinsky was actually asleep on
his guns, which I just imagine like on a pile
of weapons, this cuddling one. Yeah, right right, all xanax
out sleeping. So when they break into the house, Paulchinsky
wakes up, he's a little startled. The first thing he
does is reach for a gun, and when he did,

(57:38):
police shot him twenty seven times, killing him. Bradley makes
it out safe, good, which is all good, and probably
went to therapy. He's like, can I just be put
in foster care? That literally left me? They literally I
don't know how you would grapple with literally being left
behind during a hostage situation by your parents. That's oh
my god. That makes me So.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Doing it better about your parenting choices a little bit? Okay,
so I can tell you you've made better choices than that.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
You're welcome. You're doing great. You're doing great.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
You've not left your kids behind in a hostage situation.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
So there's that. It's pretty good. I did it the
year so. An autopsy was performed after his death that
did not show any drugs in his system other than
the xanax right that they'd used. I'm not surprised. There
was also another woman charged with purchasing weapons for Paulchinsky,
which how he got all these guns and he was

(58:34):
a convicted felon.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Can't do that.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Yeah, And the victims' families were awarded four hundred and
fifty thousand dollars in a civil lawsuit as a result
of the woman who purchased the guns. Right, I'm pretty
sure she's the one who got Okay, that's fine. Yeah.
In an interesting turn of event and even other interesting
turn of events, paulitz he was still alive. No, I'm kidding, No,

(58:58):
he was totally done.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Twenty seven years, There is twenty seven gunshots.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
Homie's pretty dead.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
You can't kill the boogey man.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Yeah right, No, So Andrew McCord, the boyfriend who escaped first,
leaving his child behind Dick, So he attempted to collect
a ten thousand dollars reward from crime stoppers because he
was like, well, I was the first one in the

(59:26):
house to call nine one one and let police know
where Paul Chinz he was. It was me, which let
ultimately led to his apprehension. But because he didn't call,
because he called the police instead of Metro Crime stoppers.
They're like, we don't have to pay anything out loser.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
His son was like, which is also like, well, duh,
of course you call the police.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
But I love that. That's the technicality that they me too, like,
well you didn't call us, and let us call the police.
There was also an attempt by Andrew and Lynne to
sue Baltimore County Police, saying that they hadn't done anything,
like they knew that he was on loose and they
hadn't done anything to protect them and their family before

(01:00:13):
they were taken hostage.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Which is fair.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
The only issue is that they had gone to the
family and offered many forms of protection and they were like,
no worry, yeah, including increased patrols twenty four to seven, surveillance,
like a car parked outside their house and they turned
it down, an officer staying in their home, all of
which they declined wow. And so the suit was like
it was either dropped or it was dismissed, one of

(01:00:35):
the two. But they were like yeah. The police were like, no,
we did, though we did come to you and be
like you want help, and he said, nah, this one's
on you. And now you're saying give me money.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Also, remember how you left your kid. I remember, I
just think they're not giving you anything.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
And there's part of me that's like, okay, like I said,
that was heavily criticized, like that decision, and I'm like,
so do they see they're getting criticized about that, and
then look at these like lawsuits and reward money and
stuff and be like, you know what, they already hate us.
Let's just go for broke and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Like really wondering because none of those were good. I mean,
it was very clearly an effort to like profit off
of this situation, absolutely, you know what I mean, but
like like just do interviews like everybody else does.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Right, right, But also like, honestly, there's part of me
this like I could see you suing the police for
not intervening, and I mean it would be a hard
case because a hastage situation is so tenuous, but like, right,
but I can see that that more than like they
didn't offer us protection when they're like, well no, here's
the notes of what we called you and offered. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
So anyway, that is the story of Joseph Pulchinsky's crazy
I know WHOA that was a good one, thank you, Okay,

(01:02:05):
so hostage hostage situations.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Hot hottage stage girl summer.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Yeah, hostage girls summer.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
That's not a thing I know, red summer anymore. Yeah,
we're in the new era of true like Charlie Summer. No,
what's her name whatever, her real name is XCX. Did
you not see the announcment thing? No, okay, it was that.
I also don't really listen to Charlie X.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
I don't either.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Yeah, I don't either. It's a controversial take. Wannie hates it.
He wants me to get into it, and I'm just like,
she's good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
It's just not really the genre. I go for it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
But she's good and scooty, she's fine. Yeah, stop skiing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I feel so you picked hostage takers now initially, but
I was looking into this case, this topic. Most of
them were like big government cases right, involving wartime scenarios
and like soldiers. I'm trying to avoid all of that
because that is very common absolutely in international politics. Well yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:03:15):
I wanted to go like a little more residential.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Yes, I guess if that's a little more domestic. Yeah,
there's a good one, domestic domesticity.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Yeah. This led me to well, Alabama and the Alabama
Bunker hostage crisis of this before.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
It sounds familiar, but I can't recall any specifics. So
let's say no, okay, it's pretty crazy. Okay, now I
have I'm going to tell you. Okay, let me give
predictions off the bat. I'm thinking it's giving very sovereign
citizen vibes. It's giving very don't touch my gun vibe.

(01:03:58):
It's giving. That's my prediction. I love that. I love that.
Put pins in it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Yes. Now, as a mom, this particular case makes my
heart hurt a little bit because, unlike the types of
cases I listed before, the victim in this case was
not a soldier or even an adult. Five year old
Ethan Gilman's life I know, so little would hang in
the balance between the best minds of the FBI and

(01:04:25):
a crazed kidnapper who believed he was on some sort
of important mission. I know, before we get into this tale,
I wanted to know what kind of person would abduct
someone for their own twisted ideals, again separate from like
people doing it in wartime, Like why would like a
random person take a hostage? According to the FBI's Behavioral

(01:04:48):
Analysis Unit, the profiles of most hostage takers usually fit
into at least one of five categories. The categories could overlap.
These are like their five like profiles, or this is
what type of people will take hostages?

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Number one is the anti social personality type. Characteristics include
lack of empathy, impulsivity, and irresponsibility in life and in
personal relationships.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Okay, that sounds like my guy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Absolutely. I think your guy fits into quite a few
of these. It was the perfect, perfect, perfect What am
I looking for?

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
Mix?

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
I don't know, yeah, juxtaposition, yeah whatever. Two emotional instability.
This type will lose self importance in view of a
higher goal, so like, my life doesn't matter, it's only
the cause.

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
May not be real, yes, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
They are unable to participate successfully in society, with many
experiencing trouble with keeping a job as well as socially.
So you can kind of see how one and two
are related, but they're not exactly the same.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Three the seriously mentally ill, categorized here as being like schizophrenic.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
This would include a history of delusions, paranoia, social withdrawal,
typical schizophrenic stuff, although not all schizophrenic people.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
It's more extreme mental illness, taught, it's not personality disorders. Absolutely,
this is where there's a voice psychosis type. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Four is also mental illness, but it's in the depression category.
So the typical yes, yes. Typical symptoms include loss of
pleasure normally delightful activities. Exhaustion or lack of mental energy.
Weight loss and sleep problems are common warning signs in
this case. And then number five is substance intoxication. This can,

(01:06:43):
of course, depending on all sorts of factors, including what
are they taking, how long have they been on it,
all the stuff do they have going on their big
old noggin can make these perpetrators even harder to predict
due to unstable behavior and rapidly changing emotions.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I wonder I'm sure that includes too if they were
on something and are not anymore, like with like a
detoxing withdrawal. Yeah, I can cause some psychosis thing. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
And that's the thing is like you can have many
of these profiles fit you or just one that was
really interesting. Yeah, that all made that all tracks, So
that all makes a lot of sense because it is
very sort of unstable personality types at all. Of them,
and you were going over that earlier. Where it really is.

(01:07:29):
When it's like a personal crime, it's a desperation crime.
It's like I don't have anything else to bargain, and
I want whatever I want. Yeah, I'm gonna put other
people's lives directly in danger. Yeah yeah, dick, move, dick, damn.
I could work for the FBI. Right, I'm waiting for
a girl.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
You already got my list of my browsing history. Just
tell me smart.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
I found this super interesting to read about us. Again,
I usually think of hostage situations to involve wartime, So
it's interesting that so many different possible profiles exist. Yeah,
so let's see how many boxes we can push this out. Cheese. Okay,
Jimmy Lee Dike's age sixty five, had what one could
describe as a troubled life, just like your guy. A

(01:08:14):
lots not super known about his upbringing. It's just known
that it wasn't good. Okay, you know he would go.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
Through There wasn't like one precipitating no like mine was
like he definitely had a head injury. But this sounds like, yeah, okay,
abuses right right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
I think a lot of it just wasn't recorded. It
was the time period as well. He would grow up
to be a Vietnam veteran who suffered after the war.
I'm just gonna assume he had PTSD. A lot of
his symptoms line up with that, although he was never
formally diagnosed. He would go through bouts of hard times
as an adult. He would be homeless off and on

(01:08:54):
throughout his life, living in his car for a period
of two years.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
According to his former friend and neighbor George Arnold, Dikes
had from the outside kind of an understandable bias against
the American government, which isn't uncommon, especially for like veterans
who are not being well taken care of.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
Yeah, frankly, especially for I think Vietnam veterans. Absolutely, there
was this huge disconnect between the people who were in
the military on the actual running of it from the
government side, like that war specific not saying that that
hasn't happened, but like that war specifically was really contentious
between Yeah, a lot of them are really not hooked over,
which is very sad and which is again sort of

(01:09:36):
like you can see how he would be mad, you know,
but his feelings went down a dark and twisted path
into true insanity. See Dikes was into betting on local
dog races, which wasn't all that uncommon for the area
at the times, like very southern. Where was he, Alabamlabama, yep,
And he was in a sort of an impoverished area,

(01:09:56):
so it wasn't uncommon to go and like bet on
the races. So all of Alabama alienate the whole section
of our country.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
So he but he wasn't like a normal like he'd
go there and like, oh, you know whatever. He became
convinced that he could predict the patterns of the races
and became obsessive about it. He had boxes and boxes
of records and statistics, some things that he had like
printed off, some things that he had written down in
sort of a manic frenzy.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
I imagine, like the always sunny Charlie. I literally wrote
that down with like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
The pointing and connections, the yarn.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
It's all connected, it's all connected. That's exactly what I imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
If someone in your life is putting up a map
of something or being like, look at all these things
they connect. They are having trouble them.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
It's not normal.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Ask them how they're doing and that's like, is everything
okay with you? Yeah, So that can start to lead
to danger delusions, and it did. Dykes became convinced that
not only was the government fixing the local dog races,
they were out to get him specifically.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
This is a.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Direct quote from his friend from earlier, George Arnold, who
lived in the same neighborhood as him and like kind
of knew him, would sometimes invite him over, like to
eat and stuff because he was obviously down on his luck.
This is a quote from him. He thought the government
was working with the mafia to control the dogs. Like
if you bet ten thousand on a dog and it

(01:11:32):
was about to win, they would hit a microchip they
put in the dog to shock them and slow them
down so you wouldn't get your money.

Speaker 4 (01:11:40):
You know, listen, I I could have I was on
board a little bit with the government working with the mafia.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Absolutely, But as soon as you said microchip, I was like,
I lost me.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
He lost me a microchip.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
I literally wrote, like that exact thing now, because I
could see that, like, the government has been involved in
weird ways with the underground criminal world. Yeah, has the
government worked with the mafia?

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
Yeah? And I mean I would say, probably more in
other countries, but definitely in ours. Yeah, but you know
what I mean, so like that's not that my chips
and the dogs that is and this wait what year
this was in? When?

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
Around? What time period.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
At this plu uh like two thousands okay, so like
that would have like microchips and shit would have been
a yeah, not common, but this was he believed this
all his life, So this was probably like eighties and
nineties around when it would have been totally totally implausible.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
Yeah, like what's a microchip?

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
You know what I mean? The crime happened in the
the crime that we're talking about today happened in the
two thousands. Okay, so this was just sort of like
his period, I see usion Yeah yeah, okay, and that's
exactly what I said, like our government meddling where they
shouldn't fair, Yeah, the government or we're not that organized
crime fair, not that weird microchips and the dogs.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Yeah, I wish I could put a microchip in my
dog so that she'd stop thinking that every motorcycle is
out to personally kill her.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
It's so said, it's actually really cute.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
She's only twenty six pounds she's little. Yeah, but when
we're on a walk and she hears a motorcycle, she
will put me behind her and like she's just shaking,
like it is so sweet. But I'm like, baby, it's
just so ex Our neighbor has one. So she's always
just like, oh, like no, please, I can't please.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Yeah, sorry, poor baby. Yeah, but there are no microchips
in the dogs. That's not real. This area of Alabama
in which he lived, the community numbered at about twenty
three hundred people at the time, so pretty small. Was
very close knit, and some people consider Dykes to just
be essentially like the wacky neighbor, but like pretty harmless,

(01:14:03):
especially at the time where he was homeless. Yeah, it
was just sort of like he's just a kind of
a crazy guy. You need to help, you know. He
was eventually able to secure property he moved into a
nearby like housing project, but this stability did nothing to
improve his rapidly failing mental health. In fact, he became

(01:14:25):
somewhat of a public nuisance. We've all had that neighbor,
but he was like to the extreme.

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
Oh god, Yeah, he would.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
Yell and scream at local children, threatening them with violence
if they were to like come onto his property. A
lot of it seemed to be like like almost like
a dog guarding food, like protective behavior over his property.
So like kids crossing through his yard. He would lose
his shit. Police were called many times because people were like,

(01:14:53):
he told my kid he would kill them, Like you
can't really do that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Yeah, can't do that there, that's gonna be me one day,
not the killing. Get off having a corner lot and
seeing a kid cut the corner and be liked walk,
I want to talk for this grass who didn't see.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
I'm gonna be the neighborhood like friendly witch.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
It's just like hello, fresh cookies.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
But like with love, but not in the weird way,
not in a weird way. No, I'm not gonna like
murder anything, but like you know, I'm gonna be like in.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
The weird trying to steal children here and like the
friendly neighbor trying to hear have some cookies.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
I already know I'm going to be that person. He
also so he lived by the road and would get
upset because he thought people were speeding past his property,
which again it's a housing like on purpose, right, being
annoying like that, right, like what we they know we're recording.
Why did they drive past this house our very famous podcast.
Don't you know we're recording?

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
Get off my law?

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
So he like installed a speed bump on the road,
so that like just took it upon himself. Yeah, not
call in the city, not being like and right. And
also again it's a housing project. There were not people
speeding through. It was like a residential area.

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
So he's just crazy. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
There was an awful incident I hate even talking about
this where a neighbor's dog wandered on to his property
and he beat it to death with a metal pipe.
Oh god, So police were called for that, Yeah, speedbump. Actually,
the day before the incident I'm about to describe, he
had been due in court for allegedly firing a gun
at his neighbors.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
Yeah, you cannot be firing gun in a residential neighborhood. Yeah,
they frown on that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
It's frown upon even in Alabama.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Yeah, it's to have some guidelines, very loose laws. Do
not fire a gun in a residential neighborhood. That's the
only law that could be the only law.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Yeah, Okay, So now we're coming up to the incident
in question. Okay, so he was very protective of his property,
and you would assume that it was because, you know,
he was just like a crazy guy, you know, and
especially if you don't have property, once you get it,
you're very protective over it. That makes sense. But he
was also doing some stuff on his property that he

(01:17:07):
shouldn't have been doing, which included digging a fucking bunker.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
Yeah, this takes me think of that woman, the woman
who was trying to build a tunnel.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Under Yeah, I followed that. Did you guys see that
on TikTok? It was so funny. At first when I
saw it, I was like, that's kind of cool that.
I was like, Oh, are you trying to go under
people's houses people's And then I was like, oh, you
don't even have a degree. No no no, no no
no no no.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
She's just got a shovel.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
That's all you need to shovel in a dream. Anyway,
So he builds a bunker. So he takes a long
time and he's digging out this like pretty impressive in
his yard, like his yard, yep, on his property, just
digging this bunk around. People didn't really know what he
was doing. Because of course he's keeping everyone away by
being fucking crazy. Right. Then, one day in twenty thirteen,

(01:18:03):
for this child that I mentioned earlier, Ethan, just a
normal day, he's just going to kindergarten.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
He's on his bus.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
But unfortunately Dykes would choose his bus to board armed
with a ruger pistol.

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
So he boarded this school bus and he told.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
Was it just like the school bus that came around
like the norm that was the normal route for the busy,
and this is the day he got it yep. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
So he boarded this bus and he told the driver
He's like, I need two children. I need two boys
to come with me as my hostages because I'm on
this like mission see you know right, he was like
mission no. So sixty six year old Charles Albert Poland
Junior was like, no, good for you. You're not taking

(01:18:52):
these kids.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
And he even was. So he's arguing with this guy
trying to get him off the bus, and he's like,
you have to shoot somebody, shoot me, don't shoot these kids.
So he was this amazing he blocked the aisle of
the bus.

Speaker 3 (01:19:08):
Good guy, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
And unfortunately Dyke's uh killed him. He shot him five times.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
Geez yep. I mean he applause to him because he
know he really knew and what he should have should
have done.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
I'll talk about it after. But they the town really
honored his life a lot good. They they gave credit
where credit was due. Absolutely for some reason, Uh, it's
not clear why he abandoned the idea of taking two
boys and ended up just taking five year old Ethan
Gilman took him with left the bus and left the

(01:19:48):
bus where it was, just left the door open. There's
this really sad passage about the children who loved the
bus driver and had a close with them. They had
to step over his body, Oh my god. And it
was actually the police were able to respond fairly quickly.
And the reason for that is that a thirteen year
old child on the bus as soon as the guy

(01:20:09):
opened the door called the cops. Okay, he had the
phone like on his lap, like yell.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
So at least it was a time during cell phones.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
Y it was not thirteen excuse me, it was fifteen
years old Trey Watts. Okay, yeah, so he was able
to call get the police there, now, I mean before
they were able to retrieve the child they had both
disappeared into his spooky little bunker. Yeah, so, but they
were able to make sure all the rest of the
children were safe. But also there's something I mean, unless

(01:20:38):
you count the bunker as like a secondary location, right,
but there's something that we said about at least he
wasn't at a secondary location and where he like ran off,
like that would have been so much harder to find
them if you at least they knew the woods or
went yeah, started driving across country or yeah. Right, And
luckily it seemed like he wanted to talk because after

(01:21:00):
shortly after getting into the bunker, he called nine one one.
Dikes called nine one one and was like, all right,
let's open up these negotiations, okay, communicating with oh he
started the okay called He's like, here are my demands?

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
Yep, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
They had like so this was let me describe the bunker.
So it was a six by eight foot underground bunker.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
Okay, that's not that big.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
No, it's not. It's really small. And they had he
equipped it with like a ventilation pipe that was.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
Like PBC okay.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
So that's how they communicated a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
So just a pipe out of the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Yeah, I'm just imagine you remember, like the playground, you
know what. I remember seeing pictures of this, Yep, I remember,
and it's literally just like the yeah, like the mailbox
and then like a pipe yep, yep, so funny, Okay, yep, okay,
I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
Yep. So bizarre.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
And he's like so gross, he's gross. Like we're having
a lot of trouble communicating with him because he's crazy
and his message was never really made clear, which most
of the time with these hostage takers when they have
like a message from God or whatever they want to
get out their manifesto. He was so disorganized. I don't

(01:22:16):
think that he was able to.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
No, he had not gotten passed taking a hostage and
making demands far.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
Yeah, I don't know what can I get.

Speaker 4 (01:22:26):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
At first, because you said in yours that that was
one of the longest hostage situations by a single person,
this was longer lasting, I think a little bit less
than seven days. And at first they were able to
pass things through the pipe for the child. So little

(01:22:50):
Ethan had Adhd and aspergers, which like the same gangang,
and they were able to pass medication through for him
and they even stuck it down the pipe yep. And
he allowed that. He was like, sure, give him his
man and I'll give it to him.

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
And he did.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
At first, he took care of the child they passed along.
I think his parents gave him a coloring book and
some crayons.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
Poor little boy, because he was.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Probably he's scared shitless. He's probably bored chitless.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
Probably like you got anything that I'm in this dirt
hole underground. He'd give my kids back. He would not
be like this is too much. Also, now this kid
is like, well, he just keeps telling me to pee
in this corner. So I was just going to keep
peeing in this corner.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
My kids would be all over that. They'd be like
I already done this corner. Done, yeah, done, So shake
your hand on that. That he there was this whole
thing about like because he would talk to the child,
He would he would help the child. He had like
some food and water down there and would feed the
child and kind of tend to the child. But that
he was also because they could hear him through the

(01:23:54):
fucking tube and they place like microphones and stuff. They
could hear him being like okay, so if anything happens me.
This is how you're gonna detonate all of the bombs
I have down here. So he's trying to train him
like Batman and Robin Weird. I'm like, come onward, get
the hell out of here. And I'm sure also, as
I'm gonna do.

Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
As a five year old kid, you just kind of
you said he was five, right, yeah, I mean you
just kind of do what the adults tell you to do.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
And I'm sure he was like, yeah, sure, mystery.

Speaker 3 (01:24:21):
He's older than me, so I'm sure he knows better,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
Like absolutely, absolutely, kid. They had photos of the space,
like after this was all done, he had sealed all
the cracks in the bunker, like with cock. It must
have been so like stuffy. He had two bunk beds.
Uh Wild super super Cross. On February fourth, twenty thirteen,

(01:24:49):
at three twelve pm, the FBI breached the roof of
the bunker. Okay, so they obviously had left it for
so long because they were worried for the safety the boy.
Obviously Dykes had a gun.

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
In there, and it's an awkward place to get into,
like it's just like walking into a door.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
Something I thought was kind of cool, was that the
FBI actually on like a neighboring a nearby property. They
began to construct a bunker like that was similar, so
that they could run practice drills on how.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
To get him out. Interesting, isn't that neat?

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
I was like, that's such a good idea.

Speaker 3 (01:25:26):
It is if you have the time to do it, right.
They it's almost like you need to do that before.
But you can't plan for something like this happening.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
I think, like, I don't even know if they did
it underground or if they did it like with materials,
but I mean, they are the FBI, so I think
they could probably like buy an excavator and be like,
I mean probably, you know they weren't doing it with
spoons in their backyard. I mean probably, But like at
the same time you're you're talking, you know, a matter
of five minutes could be in life or death for

(01:25:56):
the person inside.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
So like it's interesting to me that that's how they
chose to spend But he didn't seem like that. Obviously
he was unpredictable because he had all these weapons stuff,
but he didn't seem like that he.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Was taking care of the child. But as like the
sixth day began. They were noticing because they even had
they could see him like cameras and stuff, they were
noticing that he was no longer responding to the child,
and that he had stopped addressing his needs. He wasn't
taking care of him anymore, and he was starting to
get antsy and starting to like wave the gun around

(01:26:34):
a little bit. Okay, So they were like, it's actually go.

Speaker 3 (01:26:37):
Time right now.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Yeah, So at three twelve pm, they blew the top
off the bunker with explosive charges. They threw stun grenades
into the bunker, were able to grab the child, and
in the ensuing gunfight, which you know, one pistol against

(01:26:57):
the FBI, they killed him real good.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
The boy was taken to the hospital and was fine,
have any injuries, and they there was a really sweet
thing where like one of the like the police were
like visiting him at the hospital and they were like,
he's watching teenage mutant ninja turtles and eating pizza, like
he's fine. There is this thing, you know, well there

(01:27:24):
I don't go into it much, but there's this whole
sad thing where like after this he has to end
up going into like foster care, there were problems. His
mother was on drugs, and I think she had been
okay before he was taken, but then after she was
he was taken.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
She relapsed.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Yeah, and so he had to go into foster care.
He ended up getting adopted, So it seems like he
might have had like a couple of troublesome years, but
then it ended up being okay. Wherever he is now,
I hope that he's doing what so like really like
that sucks? Yeah, for real or real? They they did

(01:28:03):
end up discovering like the explosive devices, Like when he
said that, I was kind of like, did you really
build bombs? Like did you because a lot of people
say that, and then they didn't. No, he didn't, so
they Honestly.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
I don't know that it would have been strictly performative
for because all he knew was that the kid was
the one listening, Like, I don't know that he would
have gone to that length if it wasn't real. I'm
a naturally suspicious bit, I know, But why waste your
time trying to explain bombs to a five year old?

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
I don't know. Why go to the dog racing?

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
He doesn't even like kids, That's fair, like he's like
yelling at them all the time to get off his blonde.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
So like why he chose a child to say Yeah,
So his message was obviously primarily anti government, but he
had no manifesto organization. But at like six days, it
is also one of the longest hostage situations by a

(01:28:58):
single man.

Speaker 3 (01:29:01):
The end interesting. Yeah, it's interesting that he was organized
enough to build a bunker, but like get past.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
That step, right, and he was like what do I
do now?

Speaker 4 (01:29:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
Yeah, And like all of those little boxes I talked
about earlier, all those little categories he fits like almost
all of them. Having delusions, you obviously have antisocial personality disorder, instability.
It never said that he was on drugs or drinking
a lot. I don't think that was really a factor,
but like all the other ones on like check check tech,
check tech, right, So that must have made a hard

(01:29:31):
for him to deal with because it's like, well, what
profile do we go with?

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
Yeah, he's just a crazy guy. You go with the
one that you don't. You build a test bunker and
then you blow it and then you blow it up.
The end, Well, if you need something to listen to
while you build a bunker, why not check out this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
Yeah, we're the vocal Fries.

Speaker 3 (01:29:51):
I'm Carrie and I'm Megan, and.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
We have a podcast about linguistic discrimination.

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
We talk about language, not being a jerk, not judging
people for the way that they speak, and which to
have a good time.

Speaker 1 (01:30:01):
We talk about things like vocal fry, swearing, Southern American English,
and prescriptive grammar.

Speaker 3 (01:30:06):
You can find us on iTunes or your favorite podcast app.
All right, friends, that has been our episode this week. Yeah,
it's gonna say as surety bit of gooddy. But mine
was kind of long. Yeah, no, it was. It was.
It was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
It's not about the length, it's about the girth.

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
Oh yeah, that too. Okay. Yeah, do you have any
final thoughts before we finish up?

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:30:30):
Okay. If you enjoyed this episode, you can find more
just like this at Bad Taste podcast dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
Yea.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
Our sound and editing is by Tiff Fullman. Our music
is by Jason zak Schevski The Enigma. This has been
the Bad Taste Crime podcast. We will see you in
two weeks. Goodbye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
Along the Highway.

Speaker 1 (01:30:55):
I think this is it the way that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
People washed over with terror being together, life House she
re hardly to believe the words in some form or another,

All Episodes

Episode 203 - Number One Guy In the Group

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 203 - Number One Guy In the Group