Episode 205 - Skibidi Toilet Ohio - The Bad Taste Crime Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Why they discovered upon their arrivals unspeakable. I'm not doing.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
They did want bother. It's the living. You gotta worry about.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Something.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at
least I felt that I could keep their skeletons.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm
VICKI I'm Rachel, and we have a very special guest
in the studio with us today, Miss Caitlyn ESCAPEDO. Friend
of the show, friend of me for a very long time.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
Yes, hello, Hello, I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. We're excited to have you. Yes, you're yes, Caitlyn. So,
Caitlyn and I were roommates in college.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yes, good times for all.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
It was a time, Yeah, it was. We were just
reminiscing about some of those Yes, sure it was college.
And this is so funny. It's like world's colliding for
me right because Rachel and I went high school together.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
Oh my gosh, I don't know it.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Okay, Yeah, Rachel I went to high school together. And
now our moms, well forever, our moms have been good friends. Also. God,
so they got education together. So you saw me in
my high school years, saw the yeah, Kaylen saw the aftermath.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
VI.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
You know, things have really even out for me. Let
me say that bikes are very very.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Much Luckily, we're all functioning adults, now, that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
You're so funny, you got to pretend sometimes. Yeah, no,
I mean, you know, functioning enough.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
Right, We make it through our day to day sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I mean I'll have kids, so, like,
I feel like you guys are on a different level
of functioning than I am. Sure I'm not saying I'm
not liking it through the day, yeah i am, but
in a very different way. Yeah, yes, you're crying different
yeah sometimes yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we're not
that much different from you.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
We're just you know, to add a little human to
take care of.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I have plants. I keep adding plants.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Listen, that's hard.

Speaker 5 (02:21):
I just kind of.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Plants stand actually, so I could have more plants.

Speaker 5 (02:24):
All our plants die, yeah, yeah I do. I have
what like a black thumb instead of a green thumb.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
Well, it's because you have children, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
Even before that, though, plants were just like, oh I
don't really want to grow around you.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh you make me want to do well. And now
you have well, you have cats, and now you have
a dog. And didn't you guys have a dog or cat?

Speaker 4 (02:43):
We don't talk about we don't talk about the cat.
Oh no, the cat is no longer with us. Oh
not in that the cat is alive at a farm somewhere.

Speaker 5 (02:52):
Oh couldn't behave himself?

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yes, yes, yeah, he lasted less than twenty four hours
in my house.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:00):
I was like, I swear you guys had gotten like
weed at some point. Okay, so now.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
We're a child we're a child only household right now.

Speaker 5 (03:09):
Smart. Yes, they also had at one time.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
I would yes, and my kids are obsessed.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
With Oh my gosh, they're the easiest pet ever. Unfortunately
I had. I also had a leopard gecko unfortunately pass away.
He went like the worst way too. They take a
long time to die. In case no one knows.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
That I did. In case you're thinking of purchasing one, prepared.

Speaker 5 (03:32):
For this on the back.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Und he just really took a lot, and I for
a while I was like, is there a way I
can like humanly right, you know, because he was really.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
No, that's understandable.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
Yeah, But you know what, now we have just our
triald that we're fine.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, that's all you need, truly exactly, I'm good right now.
I love that before we get too far into the show.
Something I always like to ask her guests is is
there a particular crime case, something that got you interested
in your crime at all?

Speaker 5 (04:06):
I wouldn't have if you were.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Not interested into your crime, and I know you are.
But when you think about it, was there like one
thing that drew you in?

Speaker 4 (04:17):
That is such an interesting question. I don't know that
I've ever thought about it, to be honest with you,
that's probably frightening. There probably should be some kind of fun,
you know. Honestly, I think it's more because like I'm
a theater person and so I don't know that there's
like a twice but like Jacqueline Hide, yes, you know,
murdery kind of things.

Speaker 5 (04:40):
I'm stealing your friend, my friend.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Now you have to use stage stage managed.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yes, that's my majors stage management.

Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
And actually, like I love haunted houses, I don't like
going to them because I'll punch you in the face. Yeah,
I will totally like scare the peace out of you.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's yes.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Yeah, oh yeah, So I think that's really where it
comes from.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I can see that, which is probably more.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Frightening than actually liking a case. Probably, I don't know, more.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Exactly exactly spooky kind of esthetic.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
Yes, yes, yeah, it's deep in my soul, you know,
like I don't look like a Tim Burton girly but
like you know, oh yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm I don't look interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's
what I said. Yeah, you're welcome everybody for not being

(05:37):
a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Literally, because well done, right, I would not have made it.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
This far.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Gone after my roommates.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Literally, yeah, it's a perfect crime. Oh my god, well
coming after me, and that they would have been.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
Another call liked.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
The perfect Yes, it's so true.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Again to college. Am I right? We were friends with
the EMTs. Let's just put it there.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
It's so true. I love that. Can't believe this is
my life, some medical care.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
This is not a podcast about colleges, thankfully, Bully.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
No, you are very right, and I would be able
to be honest if this is your first time listening,
a special hello to you. We are going to head
over to the news room.

Speaker 5 (06:28):
Let's go there. Watching today we had fifty. All right.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
So this week our news comes from good old Canada,
where there was this interesting case about a dog bite
that I thought you you both might enjoy. So enjoy that.

Speaker 5 (06:59):
Well you'll find out, won't you.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
There's a woman who got her hand bitten by a
dog once who had a claim for four and sixty
two dollars and sixty two cents in damages, but her
claim was dismissed. Oh dude, know any guesses as to.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
Why did she bite herself?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
No, that's actually a funny guess though, I don't la. No. So,
she was walking in the lobby of like towards the
lobby of her apartment complex, and one of her neighbors
was walking out with the dog, and there was a
leashed dog that was owned by one of the other
tenants of the building get bit her in the hand.
So she had this growing pain from this dog bite.

(07:46):
Went to the hospital. They basically, you know, treated it,
gave Bryanna by ax whatever, sent her home, and she
filed this lawsuit to recover damages from the dog bite,
which sounds reasonable.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah, I would, I would too.

Speaker 5 (08:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
So the court basically said, because it comes down to
this question of if the owner is liable because the
action that was caused by their animal, like they knew
that that would happen, or if they had a reasonable
expectation that the animal would not be dangerous.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
Right, That's kind of what it comes down to.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Like you being a responsible dog owner or an irresponsible
dog owner.

Speaker 5 (08:27):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
And because this dog had never been anybody before, there
was no reasonable expectation of it to be vicious or violent.
And so in the decision, the judge said, every dog
is entitled to one bite.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Wow, I mean I just imagined I thought you were
going to tell me she slapped the dog across the face.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
That's what I was, like.

Speaker 5 (08:52):
She killed the dog or something.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
But she's They're basically like, we sympathize with you trying
to recover damages. But because this animal had never been
any maybe before, there's no reasonable expectation that it would
have been violent. So yeah, he did essentially hilarious. Every
dog is entitled to one bite.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
That feels like the most Canada thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
It really does.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
Like here, they'd be like death row for that dog.

Speaker 5 (09:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, absolutely wouldn't have even made it this farre.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
The cops would have shown up and that dog would
have been done.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
You know.

Speaker 5 (09:25):
The dog was like, I'm just really sorry, and they're like, oh,
that's okay.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
It's like a cute little like husky yourself. Do you
know what dog it has?

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Okay, let me see, let me see. I did say.

Speaker 5 (09:38):
It's like a cane corso or something. A mini Australian shepherd.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Oh okay, okay, I'm a leashed mini Australians.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
Like yeah, see, and it was un a leash too.
Come on now, yeah, you know what I think that
lady looked at it. Weird, That's what I think. Yeah,
she was like, yeah, that dog felt it right, she
was this lady doing her time.

Speaker 5 (10:00):
Maybe she had evil energy. She didn't think of that.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
They can we'll pick up on energy right, a lot
better than the rest of us do. My dog hates
men so well. She's very intuitive, like she's the best. Yeah,
she's very smart.

Speaker 5 (10:18):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
All right, we're going to move on to Netflix and kill.
This week, we are talking about American murder Gabby Potito. Okay,
this is this is on Netflix. It came out a
couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago. Have either
of you watched us?

Speaker 5 (10:34):
I follow the case really closely when it first came out.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yes, yes, I do know the case, not the ok yeah, continue, Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
So this is a case from twenty twenty one when
twenty two year old Gabby Patito and her Fianza Faith
fiance fiance Brian Landry. Uh, We're going on this sort
of van life expedition for a while, and then she

(11:04):
went missing and he sort of returned without in secret
without her and didn't say anything. And as the police
started getting involved, he was very uncooperative. He then like
escapes essentially and goes out into the woods and kills
himself allegedly allegedly. But yeah, so that's yeah, and they

(11:32):
do they do obviously they find Garby Patito deceased. They
do find her body. It's a really really sad case.
Then it came to light that there was like these
this domestic violence incident that happened just before this big disappearance,
that their relationship was actually not as lovey dovey as

(11:53):
it was portrayed in these YouTube videos, and you know,
et cetera, et cetera. So, uh, this is a three
part series on Netflix. I actually really liked this because
they use a lot of the footage that she had
recorded on their trip sensus nice, which is kind of nice. Yeah,
And they had obviously a lot of like bodycam footage

(12:13):
from police encounters, especially like the encounters with his parents
at his parents' house about the cars and him being there,
and yeah, it's an interesting I mean, it's nice to
have something that has everything in the timeline, yeah, from
like start to finish, and being able to take all

(12:34):
of these the source material and sure kind of alignment.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
A good thing about like these modern cases is like
it's so you have so much material to draw from,
like all of the videos and all of the it
makes for a good documentary.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, And she was recording a lot of this van
life stuff for a YouTube channel. Yeah, she had goals
of being this big influencer travel influencer. So there are
a lot of the raw files that have things that
were probably going to be edited out and interactions between
her and Brian and he's a big jerk. Yeah. And

(13:09):
they do have obviously the body cam footage of the
domestic incident that like happened a few days before this happened,
where they were like separated.

Speaker 5 (13:16):
Yeah, that horrible coup was like, oh yeah, you're crying
that you probably beat him. Okay, bye, I have.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
A good day and sent him to a hotel. And yeah, yeah,
unbelieva so great. The whole story is just insane to me.
It's so sad. And the way she was so young she.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
Was she was like nineteen or something, wasn't she.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
She's twenty two?

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Wow, super avoidable, comsoletely, honestly, she probably should have just
pushed him off a cliff.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, I think so too. Let's have a rewind. Yes,
and she, I mean she it clearly was a violent relationship,
for abusive relationship, but like there were also times where
she was like totally prepared to leave him, yeah and
control it. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, very sad story. But I

(14:02):
would recommend this just because it is kind of the
first like, yeah, that I've seen at least all encompassing
about that story because it is very recent, Like I said,
it was twenty twenty one.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Well, there's no question, Yeah, he did it right, which
is also really nice because you know, sometimes we don't
always get closure.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
So yeah, so it's nice to I know. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 5 (14:23):
What do you either of you put any stock into
the theories that like he's not really dead. There's like
this whole thing because all they found of him was
like teeth. Oh, you know what I mean, it's like
a whole thing. I don't know like what to think
of it because I haven't seen.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Like he's living like off in the woods, off grid
somewhere or in America.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
Because his parents like helped him a lot. They acted
really like shady. There's like a whole thing online saying
that they like hid him, and I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
I think he's an idiot. So I think that he's
he hope hopefully is just teeth. I didn't no longer
with us.

Speaker 5 (15:04):
Yeah, but like I don't.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
Yeah, I mean, it would be crazy if he wouldn't
stay quote unquote dead for long. That's because these people don't.

Speaker 5 (15:12):
You know what I mean exactly. He's a major would be.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, if anything, he'd come back and be like, oh
my gosh, I was kidnapped for all these years, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (15:24):
What's her name, Peppini? That case makes me so mad.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
I still don't know why they Yeah, for what they
do that interviewing with her. Have you seen that they're
doing that? And I think it's an id right, Yeah,
they did.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
Max I think.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, it was like because now she's out of prison,
so it was like Cherry Pippini in her.

Speaker 5 (15:46):
Own words, and she's like, oh, this is just so
Ridiculo tended to be kidnapped, like I like Mexican ladies.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
She said, blond Lady got kidnapped off the street on
a jog.

Speaker 5 (15:59):
And then it turned out she actually made a plan
with her ex boyfriend to like go there and live
with him. But then she like was like, Okay, now
I'm done being kidnapped because now everyone's mad at me.
So she like ran naked into the road and was
like how and then told the police and like wasted
a bunch of time, but like it was all her idea.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
What an idiot.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
And now she has this interview out where she's like,
you guys don't know the real story. Yeah, and I think, yeah,
kidnapped me. Okay. She claims that they really kidnapped her.
I the evidence, there's no evidence at all. I actually
I covered her for this podcast. Yeah I did, like
a I like hyper focused on it for a while.
There is no evidence at all. Yeah, anything that she

(16:42):
says is real. Yeah, she's full anyway, That's how we're
talking anyway. I actually don't even think I'm going to
watch that. I want to give it any any air. No,
but if you wanted to check out American Murder garby Tito,
you can find that on Netflix. Yes, would recommend nice.
This is that part of the show where we say
content may not be appropriate for all listeners. We are

(17:05):
definitely talking about murdered.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
Wait what are we talking about murder? Oh my god,
we're on podcast.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, I will what yeah, I will say mine does
have some child murder. Okay, sorry, guys. I know that's
your favorite thing, my favorite. Yeah, but I do want
to give that warning. Do you have any specifics?

Speaker 5 (17:32):
Definitely, a lot of murder, there's some sexual assault, there's
some drug abuse that Mine's a little gross, it's a
little grothy. But we picked a topic especially for you.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
My god, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
I'm nervous.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
We're talking about crime in Ohio.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
Yes, Oh boy, I hope this is the case I've
heard of. I hope this is a town I've been to.
I really probably I'll be like, oh my god, I
need that person. It's from like the eighteen hundred the Murderer.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
You're like, oh my god, my friends, right, Caitlin is
originally from Ohio. I am, and we've talked about Ohio.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
It's the armpit of the United States.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, that's what I've heard. True, it really is.

Speaker 5 (18:13):
I haven't heard a lot of good things about Ohio.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I mean, it's like I said, it's got Cedar Point.
I don't go there. Cedar Point is awesome.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
Yes, and that's it. It's got some cool little towns.
That's got it does.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes, that's right in Cleveland.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
It's got amazing Yeah. You know my parents are there. Yeah, now,
your parents cool, my grandmother.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
I mean I feel like that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
That is cool. Thing is there. I mean, we've talked
about Ohio many times on the podcast, and how.

Speaker 5 (18:51):
Are we We feel like it is the armpit of
a bear a little bit the midwestern Florida.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
I feel.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
Here's what's weird is it's actually like, Okay, you're on
the you're on the west side of Ohio and you're
in Indiana. You go toward the east side and you
are on the east coast. I'm sorry, but you are
like it's Pennsylvania. Like over here, it's like over on
the west side, it's like really flat land. And then
you get over to the east side, which is more
so where I'm from, and then that's like hilly lands

(19:21):
and like beautiful green things.

Speaker 5 (19:23):
You go so many.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
Hell, you are in the country. Okay, you are in Kentucky, Kentucky,
my friends.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
So that's that's the thing about Ohio.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Different identities in like one area.

Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Interesting, huh weird.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yes, a lot of crime, a lot of crime. I
could hear through the You're like, you're going to do
from Ohio.

Speaker 5 (19:48):
You have to.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
I should have seen it coming, really, yeah, I should have.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, but I wanted to actually start off with some
crime statistic.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Oh oh boy, in the whole state are like.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Just from Ohio generally. Okay, so the crime rights there
are they are like not consistent. They are very up
down updown really yes, yes, very high, but they're like
super high highs or very low lows.

Speaker 5 (20:17):
There's no like bipolar.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
Yes, much like I said, it's got three different areas
going on.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, not a theme a little.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
So there was an incident and there was actually a
twenty fourteen report from the US Department of Justice that
found that the Cleveland Police Department had a pattern of
excessive force, including the use of firearms, tasers, fists, and
chemical spray that unnecessarily escalated nonviolent situations like every police department.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
Wow, this is crazy though, because there's no one in
the city of Cleveland.

Speaker 5 (20:53):
Really do people live there?

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Everybody?

Speaker 4 (20:57):
I'm from Ohio, I can say this.

Speaker 5 (20:59):
Yes, the Cleveland area.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yes, exactly, no one really lives there.

Speaker 4 (21:03):
I mean who lives downtown. I guess they're trying to, like,
you know, make it better.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Relate Yeah, gentrification, gentrification, you know, gross Yeah. Yeah. So
this resulted in the City of Cleveland agreeing to a
consent decree to revise policies and an independent oversight board,
which I do think they have since put in place.
Ohio also has the sixth largest prison system in the country.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Oh my god, Well we have the space depending on depending.

Speaker 5 (21:36):
On where you are in the state.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
You know, it's accurate Texas to Ohio. Cleveland also is
rank to the number one most dangerous city in Ohio
to Reo Link, but overall violent crime in the state
has gone down.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
See again, I believe that's because there's no one there,
so statistically stated that makes sense. So why would be
the most island.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Honestly, Ohio has been I mean, we are very much
not very much on a political podcast, but Ohio has
been doing some things politically at like the state government
level level that I think has a lot of people lead.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
Sure. Yeah, it used to be a very purple state
for true, you seriously true, Like you could go either way,
you could feel completely safe no matter what you believed.
Right now, I'm like.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Illinois is not looking so bad
right now.

Speaker 5 (22:34):
Right exactly.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
Illinois expensive as shit, but believe me, I am you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, yeah exactly. Speaking of actually politics, there was also
quite a mob presence in Ohio that a lot of
people don't know about, which I always find surprising. There's
an absolutely fantastic podcast called Crook and City that's about Youngstown, Ohio,
specifically young and former congress mean Jim Traffick It do

(23:01):
you know about him? No, crazy, you should listen to
this podcast because it's insane. He was a former congressman,
but he did. I mean, there was a lot of
like paying people off and mob connections and yeah, yeah,
it's an insane story. True.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
It's always trying to be like Illinois and Chicago, Like
just cut it out, guys, you can't do them.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, they just they just want the mob in Youngstown? Right.
You know. It was funny because when Wannie was moving
back to Illinois from Philly, he had stopped in Youngstown, Oh.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
To like sleep for the night. You got a hotel there?

Speaker 4 (23:35):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (23:39):
And he goes, yeah, I stopped in Youngstown and I'm like,
I'm pretty sure there's like heavy mob action there. And
he's like, are you serious? And I was like, you know,
I'm like being very serious.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
Like if I would have known that, I wouldn't stand.
Are you in a motel or a hotel? These are important?

Speaker 4 (23:55):
Do they charge by the hour?

Speaker 2 (23:57):
As long as it's like a Marriotte, you're probably fine?

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Right?

Speaker 5 (24:01):
God?

Speaker 2 (24:02):
No, I was like that. So you know, Ohio is.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
But we do have Swinson. We haveson if Winston's is amazing.
It's kind of like in and out, but better fight
me on it. People who love in and out come
after me. I don't care. I've never heard it's amazing.

Speaker 5 (24:23):
Swims remember that either. I ast that served all the
regional ones.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
I have dreams of, like when I renew my vows
to like bring their food truck over to Illinois. I
don't care how much it cost. Yeah, I want the
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
That would be a lot of All right, let's get
into what I've decided to cover today. I'm very excited
about this, so I want to talk about James Urban
Rupert and the Easter Sunday massacre. Okay, yes, it's a lot.

Speaker 5 (24:58):
Are you familiar.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
I'm not familiar, but I've heard of it.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's about where I'm at too.

Speaker 5 (25:04):
It's oh boy, guys, get ready what okay?

Speaker 2 (25:09):
So? Born in March nineteen thirty four, James Urban Rupert
grew up in Hamilton, Ohio. Do you know where that's at?

Speaker 4 (25:15):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (25:16):
I think it's in the.

Speaker 4 (25:16):
Northern part of the northern Yeah, like north, is it northeast?

Speaker 2 (25:19):
I think so?

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Thanks. He had quite the troubled childhood.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
As they do. We're been a while.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
What do you want?

Speaker 2 (25:31):
He already started out of his parents disadvantage exactly, so
he grew up knowing he was not wanted by his mom.
His mom was very His mom, whose name is Charity,
told him a lot that like, I wish you were
a girl. I wish I would have had a girl
instead of you. And he was the second of two

(25:51):
because he had an older brother, Leonard Junior.

Speaker 5 (25:53):
Girl just adopt adopted the thirties.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, just get one off the street, just grabit, drive
around and find an agreeable or I'm.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Sure there's one in Cleveland somewhere.

Speaker 5 (26:03):
Probably right. Ask the mob.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, they had mobs. It's true.

Speaker 5 (26:08):
The mob did open orphanages.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
And they for the right price, they'd get you any kids. Yeah,
no problem.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
But you want to bow on and no problem on it.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
So yeah, he was the second of two boys, and
she'd be like, I wish I had a girl, and
we would tell him that all the time. Oh boy,
his dad, Leonard was not really much better. He had
a very violent temper. He also was like not fans
of his sons, like, he didn't really like either of them.
On the plus side, they didn't have to deal with
it very long because he died score. Yeah he did

(26:47):
when Rubert was twelve and his brother Leonard Junior was fourteen.

Speaker 5 (26:52):
I had to.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Laugh a little bit because I got some of my
research from American hauntings and as they're talking about Leonard
Senior dying, they just say, quote, he wasn't missed. God,
yeah he was, he was not missed. Yeah, so he

(27:15):
they were they were like no loss. Leonard Junior sort
of took over as the man of the house at fourteen,
also stepping into his father's shoes and endlessly taunting uh
Rupert also on the regular.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, things became so bad at home that when he
was sixteen, Rupert ran away and attempted to kill himself
by hanging himself with a bed sheet, but it was unsuccessful,
and so he went back home and his life yeah
really yeah, and he would have been I mean, this
would have been in his teenage years. Oh would I

(27:51):
say sixteen? Yeah, I'm sure he goes on to do
terrible things, but that's very saying he does. In fact,
so he Rupert was described as meek and bookish, unremarkable
and quiet.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
This is terrible way, like, yeah, these are horrible things.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I mean he was just like there's like yeah, I
mean he's a nice guy. He's just kind of a
there was guy, average guy. Oh about the only thing
that people really noted was a very obvious resentment towards his.

Speaker 5 (28:23):
Brother Leonard Junior. I mean understandable.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
He was kind of this like golden child, right, like
hate that. Yeah. So this is from American hauntings. Quote.
James flunked out of college after two years, while Leonard
earned a degree in electrical engineering and excelled in sports.
To make matters worse, Leonard married one of the few
girlfriends that James had ever had with had eight children.

(28:48):
Come on, now, that's great.

Speaker 5 (28:50):
That's some Jerry Springer shit.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah. Leonard had a great job with General Electric, where James,
at age forty one, was unemployed and living with his
mother end quote. So it was sort of this, like,
he has the life that I've always wanted.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
He married the girl that I was in love with.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
YI has this beautiful family and this great job and
oh my god. But also that's really shitty to marry
your well, absolutely, man, he must have done it on purpose.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
I mean, honestly, I'd feel more terrible if this guy
wasn't gonna end up being like a psycho. I know.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's very true.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
Just a little right, Like that's a good point, right,
this guy's probably a piece of ship.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
Yes, yeah, It's like you could have just beat your
brother up and then that would have been it. Went
to therapy, Yeah, therapy.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Although he still has this mom who is like making
it very clear that he wasn't wanted as a kid,
and they were living.

Speaker 5 (29:43):
Together in great house. That can only lead to good things.
I'm sure it strengthened their relationship.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Oh yeah, they're totally close. Over the years, Rupert developed
a drinking problem and he had these arguments with his
mom where a lot of times she was like trying
to evict him. She's like, okay, you to be out
by the end of the week or whatever, like that
was the end of the argument. I'm kicking you out
of the house.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
See, people, this is why we set boundaries with our children. Yes, okay,
you're going to kick them out. Kick them the fuck out.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Stay there.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
Maybe he wouldn't have murdered people.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
My lady.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
Hopefully she didn't get murdered. If she did, I feel
bad about it. Oh okay, well okay, so it's okay.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
I used to try it back. It's still shitty.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
It's not. I mean, it's not just set boundaries.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
You don't deserve to be murdered, but set boundaries.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, damn it. There was also this money issue that
caused a lot of tension between Rupert and his brother
and mom, because he had borrowed a bunch of money
from both his mother and brother after losing large sums
in the nineteen seventy three to seventy four stock market crash.
He like, lost a ton of money, had to borrow money,

(30:59):
and has not been hate it back.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
Is it all moved somewhere? Is also an alcoholic, so like, wow, yes.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, okay. So in February nineteen seventy five, Rupert had
gone to the store to purchase ammunition and inquired about
a silencer for his gun.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
Nothing weird about that, Yeah, very normal? Yeah, absolutely, When
I fire guns, I wanted to be real quiet.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
But I'm also like, is there ever a good time
to inquire about a silencer?

Speaker 4 (31:30):
Also, like February, I'd be like lots of questions here,
What am I shooting in February? There's nothing out there
in Ohio? I ow in February.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
It sucks.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
It's not deer season, bitch, No, definitely not, And you're
not shooting on what the silence are?

Speaker 2 (31:45):
No?

Speaker 5 (31:45):
Right?

Speaker 2 (31:46):
No, come on now, he's just preparing, exact prepare right
for the warmer months.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
Had he had the Internet, he would have been searching.
So this is where, honestly, people.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
True, this is seventy five. So yeah, right, I guess less, I.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
Don't know he's at the library. How do I make
murder quieter?

Speaker 2 (32:04):
I don't want people to hear that I'm killing people.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
I didn't even know they had silencers. Then I guess, yeah,
I don't know. Yeah, I don't who knows? Who knows.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Soon after, he was witnessed taking target practice on the
banks of the Great Miami River, shooting tin cans with
a twenty two caliber pistol. Pistol and rifle. Okay, target
practice cool.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
So everyone was woll okay, so we knew about this.

Speaker 5 (32:28):
Okay, so it's like, oh, I see that guy, wonderful.
That's gross. Well, I mean sure an area.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Where did I say Hamilton?

Speaker 4 (32:36):
Hamilton?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Is it more rural?

Speaker 4 (32:38):
I mean, yes, is my guest because of.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Just yeah yeah, because he just like was out in
the wood shooting tin cans. Did he paint his mom
and brother's face on the tin cans? Did not specify,
but I could see it.

Speaker 5 (32:50):
I mean I'm sure he did. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Rupert's mental health.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
Was yeah, he's like south. This is like oh south,
this is south and west? Uh, this is like near Sincinnati.

Speaker 5 (33:00):
Oh okay, yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
So we might as well be in Indiana like no
Man's land down there.

Speaker 5 (33:06):
Okay, well that's a little more forgivable than doing in
like the town Square.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Yeah well right, yeah, which is a very Ohio thing
as well.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yes, oh I love that.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
So Rupert's mental health was quickly deteriorating. Really, he had
years of disappointment and rejection from his own family, combined
with alcoholism, and he was falling into a depression. Not great.
But he was also a man of routine. So on
the evening of March twenty ninth, nineteen seventy five, he

(33:38):
went to the nineteenth Whole Cocktail Lounge, as he did
every night. That's cute for a drinking the name of
the lounge. Yeah. While he was drinking, he spoke with
waitress named Wanda Bishop, who would later say he had
complained of his frustrations with his mother and his living situation, saying, quote,
he needed to solve the problem.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Okay, Wanda, where were you in all this? Come on now? Huh?

Speaker 2 (34:03):
She's like, I don't know. I thought he might move out.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
I just make minimum wage.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Literally, I'm occupaid enough to ask questions.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
That's an hour I just listened to him, So.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
He kip me, yes exactly, I mean, I mean.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
Really sure you got to fix the problem, okay, buddy.

Speaker 5 (34:19):
Yeah, yeah, you have to pay your tab.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
He also complained that his his mom was like, if
you can't afford to buy all this beer every night,
I don't understand how you can't afford to pay rent.
And also a.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
Fair question, very fair, but again in boundaries, right yeah, right,
just you know.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
It's always the mom's fall. So Rupert left the bar
around eleven and then came back a little later, and
he stayed and closed the bar out until two. He
was there till about two thirty, goes home. There was
also a place where I saw he had talked to
the waitress again and she was like, did you like
deal with your problem?

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Was Wanda?

Speaker 5 (34:57):
He was like, no, like tell me the details. They
didn't have podcasts. Then she was so bored, right, she
antually talked to people.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
You know. So meanwhile, Leonard Junior and the rest of
his family all eight children of his.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
That's so many.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
Yeah, that's you can't afford that.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
Now, that's like no, definitely not no, sorry, those of
you have eight children. I don't know how you're doing it.

Speaker 5 (35:21):
They're not listening because they're in church.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
That's exactly. So Leonard Junior and the rest of the
family they attended the Easter vigil Mass that evening. This
is the day before Easter. See, they're in church, and
I got home at about ten thirty. Okay, okay, that's late.
So well it's not for not for like the evening

(35:44):
church services, especially on like.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
I mean, oh, yeah, have you been to a mass,
because those things are long, especially like holiday masses.

Speaker 5 (35:53):
I went to a Catholic wedding and that was enough.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yeah, I mean they're very I went to a Catholic
funeral and is not ending. Yeah, ever, probably.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
I know. I thought I thought, like Lutheran sermons took
a long time and then I had to go to
a Catholic mouse or something nothing. Yeah, yeah, no, so
ten thirty is not Actually yeah, I forgot about midnight
Mass yeh oh yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, but that's more
of a I don't know. Do they do midnight Mass
for Easter or for Christmas?

Speaker 5 (36:23):
Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
I'm sure.

Speaker 5 (36:25):
I was just thinking about the Christmas.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
I'm pretty sure it's Christmas. Yeah, okay, So the next day,
on Easter morning, Leonard Junior, his wife Alma, and their
eight children went over to Charity's house, the Mom's house,
to celebrate the holiday. That's nice. There was an Easter
egg hunt happening on the lawn. Cute, uh, while Rupert
was sleeping off his hangover upstairs. Right Once they were finished,

(36:47):
the family went inside, where Charity prepared lunch while the
kids played in the living room. Very ever holiday.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, that's a nice family right there.

Speaker 5 (36:55):
And Rubert's just upstairs.

Speaker 4 (36:57):
The drunk uncle drunkel.

Speaker 5 (37:00):
Then gole yep, pretty much?

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Where's uncle? What I forart of his name? Already Jane
had urban and that's not having children.

Speaker 5 (37:11):
I think he was Uncle Jimmy, Uncle Jimmy, Jimmy.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Boy, where's Uncle Jimmy. We'll just sleeping off.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
His hang over. You know, he's tired all the time.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
I'm tired all the time.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, sleepy because he works so hard. So around four pm,
oh boy, he wakes up from his very long rest.
He loads a three fifty seven magnum two twenty two
caliber handguns and a rifle. He goes downstairs to the kitchen,
where he immediately shoots and kills Leonard Junior, Alma, and charity,

(37:40):
so his brother, sister in law, and mom, along with
eleven year old David, nine year old Teresa, and thirteen
year old Carol.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Rupert then entered the living room, where he shot twelve
year old and seventeen year old Leonard the Third, sixteen
year old Michael, fifteen year old Thomas, and four year
old John. The entire event took less than five minutes
and he had literally killed everybody in the house.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
Oh my, okay, this is crazy to me. And let
me tell you why. Okay, this man had a hangover. Okay,
he he woke up and he was like, I'm ready
to kill people. He didn't brush his teeth in the
bathroom and literally just like put the gun together and

(38:28):
just shot people.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
That's crazy, and like that's so much light and noise.
I mean, like ouch my head. Yeah, I mean maybe,
but like I also think that just the intent in that,
like waking up and I mean, yeah, that's the moment
that you're doing it, right.

Speaker 4 (38:42):
Yeah, I mean he obviously knew he was going to
do it, right then Wow, this off and then I'm
going to wake up and kill everybody?

Speaker 5 (38:48):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Just to stain that rage is
like nuts, But he's.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Been living the rage for forty one years. That's true.
Like I'm just constant. I'm not saying that's an excuse,
Like I mean reality.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
Of Like I mean the kids didn't. Oh no, I
mean dude, you're going down. Okay, what happened to him?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah? Okay, so tell me.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Did he shoot himself?

Speaker 2 (39:10):
He did not. He spent the next three hours alone
in the home before he finally called police and told
them that there had been a shooting.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
And then he sat by the front door, and he
waited for them to arrive.

Speaker 5 (39:24):
Yeah, he just.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Just like yep, this here we are again. From American
Hauntings quote. The police described the scene as a slaughterhouse.
There was so much blood splashed around that it was
dripping through the floorboards into the basement. To this day,
you can still see the stains on the wood in
the basement. It's like the I'm sorry, no one's like

(39:47):
knocks his house down, right, and we will we will
talk about it later.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
We will talk about it later. But no, the house
is still there. That was still there.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
You know why, because Ohio is probably this is a
historical monument, Like bitch is.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Not Okay, the house history, it's like so historical.

Speaker 5 (40:05):
No, it's not like a little easter eggs. Oh my
god's so sick.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Yeah, they just left it.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah No, definitely not. It's been too long. Definitely not.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
They just put like fake ones other Yeah.

Speaker 5 (40:19):
Could.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
I mean it's.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
Every year.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
That would be disturbing, that would be so fucked up.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
Yeah, I would you think I'm bringing my kids there?

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Absolutely not, unless it was like a charity thing where.

Speaker 5 (40:34):
He killed charity.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
He'd Oh my god, Rachel, that was a mom joke
right there.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
In total, Rupert fired forty four shots, forty of which
hit police. Theorized Rupert shot multiple times to ensure that
nobody escaped.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
Yes, So there.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Were eleven members of the family that were slaughtered that day,
and this was like shocking to the community.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
Sure, why don't they always say that small towns are
like this was a shock to the community, was it?

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yes? I remember a lot of times.

Speaker 5 (41:11):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
I remember shit happening in Margo and you're like, I
kind of can't believe this is happening. I always believed
it in Yeah, honestly, I was like, yeah, that would happen. True,
that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
True, but they.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Were shocked, and especially honestly, a lot of it was
people who knew him, like friends and neighbors who super
because he was so mild mannered and so, you know,
bookish again, unremarkable, quiet ones.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
It's I think it's the kids for me that would
be the shocking party.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
That mean too, because you know them, the brother you know,
And it's the volume. The fact that it was eleven
people kept going forty shocks is like crazy.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yeah, So police arrive. They he was immediately arrested, but
he refused to answer any questions. He very much made
it clear to police that he was planning on pleading insanity, like.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
It's not a very insane thing to kay. Yeah, that
seems pretty premeditated.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Again from American hauntings, quote, prosecutors believed that he planned
to plead insanity and then, after being quote unquote cured,
would be released to inherit a three hundred thousand dollars inheritance.

Speaker 5 (42:24):
I don't think so, sir. I don't think that's gonna
happen for you.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
And honestly, it probably goes towards whatever you owed anybody anyway, right.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Babs, Like your lawyers, lawyers for sure, you're.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
Not seeing any of that money.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
All your silencers you got.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
So he was charged with eleven counts of aggravated homicide. Okay,
and Rupert's child began in June nineteen seventy five in Hamilton, Ohio,
before a three judge panel, where they found him guilty
on all eleven counts and sentenced him to life in prison. Yeah, however,
small head, Oh no that I was like, what did

(43:02):
you do? Not even?

Speaker 5 (43:04):
Oh god?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Okay, so the small hitch Apparently after rendering the verdict,
it seemed to me like it was after rendering a verdict,
the judges were unsure if they were required to reach
a unanimous verdict or if a majority verdict would have sufficed.
So they declared a mistrial and he had to go

(43:27):
to trial again. No why they're just like, we don't know.

Speaker 5 (43:31):
I'm like, that is so stupid.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
You don't know. Did you go to school? Right, I
don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Well lawyers like they are all judges are are attorneys. Well,
they needed to get a different one, so they went
to a second trial. That's what they did. Went right,
I don't That's the thing right, No, there's no dispute

(44:00):
if he did or did not, right, yeah, because I
think he did admit it to police. He just wasn't
answering questions about it.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
It's like I want to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter what I'm crazy, right, Yeah.
So they have the second trial. It gets moved from
Hamilton to Finley, Ohio. Okay, because they determined that it
was going to be super difficult for him to get
a fair trial in the town where.

Speaker 5 (44:24):
It makes sense.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
There's like two people that live there, right exactly. He
killed everybody else exactly pretty much.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah. Half the county has got him in Awanda. Oh
my god, it's so true. Just like it was a shock, right,
I had no idea it was going to happen, although,
come to think of it, he did mention. Yeah. Yeah, weird,

(44:51):
so weird. So the second trial begins a month later,
in July nineteen seventy five, again before another three three
judge panel.

Speaker 5 (45:00):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
This time, the prosecution offered up evidence of Rupert speaking
to Wanda, the cocktail waitress, and saying his problems needed
to be solved. Along with the witness there were a
couple of witnesses who had seen him taking the target
practice in the woods like the day before, and the
questions about the silencer when he went to the store

(45:23):
like also he was looking at silencers by the way.
Right again, the panel found Ruber guilty and he was
sentenced to eleven life terms.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
Right. Good, this time that trial held up.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
But he still has an appeals process.

Speaker 4 (45:39):
Why what is there to appeal to.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Because everybody is allowed an appeals process, right, every unless
you waive it. Specifically, absolutely, you have a right to
an appeals process. I know it sucks, but like I
get you.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Yeah, yeah, there's a reason for rules.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
You know, fairness, fairness in the justice system. But he
is but he did absolutely do this.

Speaker 5 (45:59):
Well yeah, I'm wow.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Now. Unfortunately, on appeal, Rupert was granted a new trial
in nineteen eighty two third trial, amidst claims by his
defense attorney that his client was guilty by reason of
insanity whatever.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
The defense attorney his name is Hugh D. Halbrock, and
he was so convinced that Rupert suffered from insanity insanity
that he personally funded the psychiatrists and psychologists that he
had come in for expert witnesses were all funded by
his defense attorney. Yeah, okay, no, nope.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
Because it's his defense.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
It's his defense attorney. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's his defense attorney.
He wants to fund it time.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Yeah, I mean, oh god, right, I mean, yes, you
are insane and you premeditated murder.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
But right, yes, yes, right both. It can be two things, right,
it can be two things. Absolutely. In July nineteen eighty two,
yet another three judge panel found Rupert guilty of first
degree murder in two counts and Leonard Junior and Charity
his brother and his mom okay, and not guilty by

(47:11):
reason of insanity for the other knives, which I always
find really interesting because obviously in this verdict there is
a choice where it's like, this is where we're drawing
the line between premeditated and Like, to me, what this

(47:31):
is saying is murdering his brother and his mom is
the part that was premeditated, sure, and lost it, Yes,
and in the aftermath he was insane, he lost control
for the other nine. That's what that verdict says.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
Well, I mean, I disagree, but not with you, obviously.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I'm just in person like that's because it's very rare
that you would find one or the other yea, this
is very much the other time that I can think
of that makes me think of this is the Derek
Chauvin trial, because he was found not guilty on like
the first shot, but the other however many there were,

(48:17):
like the other twenty or whatever there were, he was
found guilty on because those were the ones that showed
excessive force, right, like, which makes sense. That does make
like the first one was justified and the rest of them, right.
I think it's bullshit, and I understand why. Yeah, sure,
that's a clever legal I must say, yeah, but hate it.
But it's very close.

Speaker 5 (48:35):
He's still got two life terms.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
All good, right, I mean he's rotting in prison.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yeah, he's spoiler alert, he's done. Oh he's done. Yeah,
he's fully done.

Speaker 5 (48:44):
I'll tell you that now.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
So he was given a life sentence for each to
be served consecutively. So it's at the time that the
murders happened, there was a moratorium on capital punishment in
the United States. This was nineteen seventy two to seventy six.
Had a lot to do with the drug cocktails that
states were using, and they had to sort of reevaluate.

(49:07):
So not a single state could not do any capital punishment.

Speaker 4 (49:10):
Oh okay, did Ohio do capital punishment before that? Do
they do it now? I actually don't know.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Oh Hio. Okay, so maybe we need to talk about
this in a different podcast. But Ohio actually has a
bit of a sortied history again three capital punishment because
so they do. They did, And then they also had
a moratorium because there was a series of executions that
went like very awry. I read about very very awry.

(49:39):
So they put on a moratorium to figure that shit
out for a while, and they I believe now are
currently doing. They do captain punishment, death penalty. Yeah, that
was Ohio was the one where the guy like they
did like lethal injection attack and he was alive in it. No,
he was alive for like twenty two to twenty three
minutes on the table, like struggling to breathe and like

(50:00):
very clearly not a quick and painless death.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
No, that's like terrible.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah yeah, and now you have people watching it, they
just have to sit there and watch them. I mean
that's Trump yeah for real.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yeah. So Ohio has had some come on miss steps
and they're not the only state, right, Like I generally speaking,
an anti death penalty. But one of many reasons is
because they have not found a way to make a
safe drug cocktail to just like effectively kill people painlessly
and quickly, like it's just not like.

Speaker 5 (50:33):
And hereditary and just piano wire their head off, because
then that's just like then you're done.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
I know, but still just like real quick. I would
just prefer no death penalty. Well I would.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
That.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah, that would be the best option, I think. Yeah, no,
I love it so so good. Okay, so he couldn't
receive the death penalty because this moratorium. River was sent
to prison in Ohio at the age of forty eight.
In June nineteen ninety five, at the age of sixty one,
he was given a parole hearing, but was denied release.

(51:11):
Oh thank god. He'd be denied another two times in
two thousand and five and twenty fifteen. Okay, they're like
no way. At the twenty fifteen hearing, the board released
his statement that said quote, the board has determined that
the inmate is not suitable for release at this time.
The inmate has not completed any recommended programming and does
not appear to be willing to do so. The inmates

(51:33):
record notes negative institutional conduct. The inmate took the lives
of multiple victims. There has been strong community objections to
his release. The release of this inmate would not be
in the best interest of judgments or of justice. So wow,
Well at this.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
Point, he's old.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
He's like, I'm not fucking doing anything, you know, like
imagine like a cranky old you know, like but he's
a murderer. He's not changing anything, right, Yeah, He'll get
out and he'll just murder people. Yeah, right, you know,
and he's.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Old, right, Yeah, I mean I love that they're like, no,
fuck this guy, We're not We're not letting him out
pretty much. Yeah, like off, yep, exactly, They're like. And
also because he's like, I'm not working your program, right,
It's like you're not even gonna try. Yeah, what I mean,
he's getting three meals right, like, and how being surprised

(52:23):
he keeps.

Speaker 4 (52:23):
Appealing honestly, like this is this is like best case
scenario for him, to be honest, because he would be
like in a home somewhere, maybe.

Speaker 5 (52:33):
Making toilet wine. Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
A pretend Wendy's no kids, like the highlight of prison,
no kidding, you know, like you know, what's like vacation.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Please, like exactly. Maybe he's getting letters from people who
love killers.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
I don't know. Probably there. I mean that's a thing
that's disgusting.

Speaker 5 (52:56):
I know that pisses me off.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
And he's like old, I just can't get over it.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yes, he's all yes killer at the time of that
decision by the parole board, the one in twenty fifteen.
His next parole hearing was for April of twenty twenty five.
So April of this year.

Speaker 5 (53:10):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
He would have been ninety one at the time of
that parole hearing. However, in June twenty twenty two, Rupert
died while incarcerated from natural causes at the age of
eighty eight. The Easter Sunday massacre is still the deadliest
shooting to be committed by a lone gunman in Ohio.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Ever, yeah, now, I we talked about the house and
I included this just for you guys. Yeah, because you
guys will love this.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
Oh yeah, he will love this.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
So all eleven victims of the massacred. They were buried
together in Cincinnati. Okay a year later. The house where
the murders occurred was open to the public and everything
in It was sold at auction.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Oh hell no, I would not beat there's a doll
in there, for.

Speaker 5 (54:02):
Sure, absolutely, I have of it had to be murderabilia.
People who were.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
Like, listen, y'all are crazy.

Speaker 5 (54:11):
That's just I don't like.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
I don't I do not like the idea of hym
that ship in my house.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
Oh no, that is bad. Juju okay, that is I'm sorry,
But that you are in Nope, you're.

Speaker 5 (54:22):
Gonna have something splashed like child blood.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
You're like, oh cool, Oh and that would be the
worst thing of it.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
All right, I'm not even worried about bringing in ghosts.
But like I I.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
That won't come after you.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
Yeah, it's also just horrible. Yeah, why would you want that?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
Okay, So they sold all this stuff inside. This does
not tell me why this house is still standing.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
So they sell everything in the house. The house was
cleaned and they had carpet not well enough installed over
the rooms where they couldn't get the bloodstains off of
the floorboards. They just installed carpet over it. I mean,
they cleaned it as best they could, but then they
just put carpets of writ. It was then rented out
to a family who was new to the area and

(55:05):
not only had no prior knowledge of the crimes, but
they were not informed before moving in.

Speaker 5 (55:11):
No, you are not.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
It is not illegal, you know, in the state of Ohio.
I love Ohio.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
I like to bury their shit. You know, they're like,
don't just the.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
I mean, when every house has a murder in it,
you are you really going to disclose each one? Right?
So in Ohio, when it comes to real estate, you
are not required to disclose, but if somebody asks you,
you do have to tell them.

Speaker 5 (55:33):
It's like supersizing.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
Holy yeah, if it's tell everybody listening that you should
always ask if someone was murdered and or died in
the house. Yes, like do your.

Speaker 5 (55:43):
And I do think that is very similar.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
In a lot of states, you're not necessarily required to disclose,
but if somebody is like, did crime or murder whatever
happened in this house, you cannot lie about it? That
makes sense. Oh my god, this poor family. So they
didn't know and again they're not from the area to
even sound like they might have been from the States,
So they didn't know. This huge thing was oh no, right,

(56:09):
detailed in Ohio.

Speaker 5 (56:10):
And they move into a murder house.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
Yeah, they like they're like man up in Chicago. It's
really it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
People were moving to Ohio.

Speaker 4 (56:20):
Someone to a movie on that. It doesn't sound like
a movie even more.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yes, so this is again from American hauntings quote they
quickly moved out, Yeah they did. After leaving the house,
they claimed to hear voices and strange noises that they
couldn't explain. Lights turned on and off, hellas slammed, and
thudding footsteps were often heard coming kids.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (56:43):
Really, Oh my god, come on now.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
You are so lucky you only heard a few things.

Speaker 5 (56:48):
Yeah, for real, just saying.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Oh, this is a pattern that would repeat, uh sort
of a number of times. Oh yeah, learn anything people
moving in and then quickly moving out, you would think so.
I mean they were so quick to demolish John Wayne
Gacy's house. They would like run that shit over.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
Oh, I want to burn this place to the ground
and rub some stage on it.

Speaker 5 (57:09):
Yeah for real, for real, salty earth.

Speaker 4 (57:12):
Yeah, like have some kind of like whatever ritual or
something over the ground.

Speaker 5 (57:16):
I doubt.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Yeah, And there was there was a period of time
where the home was abandoned. They probably had selling it whatever.
But in two thousand and eight, it was bought by
a woman named Cinnamon Baker.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
Hello, that's her name.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
She she I found this interview that she did, and
this interviews from twenty fourteen, so I think it has
changed donors since then. But she did an interview with
about living in such a well known murder house with
ABC nine WCPO in twenty fourteen. She basically said that

(57:49):
she didn't know about what had happened in the house
until just a few days before they were supposed to close.
Oh my god on it. But she also said it
did not discourage her from buying the house. And I
think this is a very interesting take. She said the
home was like any home, it had a history. This
one just happened to be a history that everybody knew about.

(58:10):
There's blood in your floor that you can see, and
I mean every every house has it. There was a
funeral in this house, you know what. I know what.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
It's haunted. It's not haunted.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
It shouldn't been. Sounds a little spunky to me. That
sounds like for sure, for sure that's gonna be I'd
be moving out.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Yeah, it was. It wasn't until after they moved in
that they noticed the blood stains on the floorboards because
you went into the basement and looked up on like
the cross beams, you could still see you can still
see where the blood stains are that they couldn't get
out of the cross beams, like from the basement ceiling.
Does No one had the money to redo just anything

(58:46):
floors like that's they put carpet ins.

Speaker 4 (58:49):
They could have redone the wood.

Speaker 5 (58:51):
They couldn't be expensive to rip up the.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Years it is very expensive. We forget COVID.

Speaker 5 (59:02):
I'm just saying like, yeah, no, I hear you painted.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
I don't care what you do.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Like I think, I will also say the new owners,
like the two previous owners, her and the one before,
have said there's been absolutely nothing that has happened at
this house. The weirdest thing is that people drive up
to the house and take picture, you know what I mean,
I like driving past the house, like pointing and staring
and taking pictures whatever. They're like, absolutely nothing.

Speaker 5 (59:30):
There's literally no way.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
No, there is absolutely way because it's not like ghosts.
It's not ghosts ghosts anyway, So that.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
Is there's absolutely no way that there's nothing terrible that
happens in the house because of the bad juju. And
I'm sorry, it's just like maybe I don't know. But
see this is where Vicki and I we we are different,
me and her too, because I'm like, nope, there's some
bad house.

Speaker 5 (59:56):
No, I'm sure it's I mean, maybe there is some
bad juju, but it's not ghost.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Oh my god, it's just a vibe.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
All right, Well we'll see. We're going to Hamilton.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
All right, let's go.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
If you don't want to live in Hamilton right now,
I don't know what we'll convince you.

Speaker 5 (01:00:12):
Murder house, that's not right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Yeah. So that is the story of the Easter Sunday massacre.

Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
It's crazy. That's a good one. You gross, you gross?

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
Okay, all right, time for mine.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Ohio, the seventeenth state, often called the buck Eye. History
lesson was Rachel.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
Now we're getting real historically. You know that Ohio was
the seventeenth state.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
I didn't know it was the seventeenth. I do know
what's the Buckeye state, and I do know that you
can eat delicious Buckeyes, which is basically just peanut butter
dipping chocolate. You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, I love those. Those are so good.
Oh yeah, those are so yummy.

Speaker 5 (01:01:05):
Yes, here's a little fun fact. Ohio actually wasn't granted
official statehood until nineteen fifty three.

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
See even, isn't that so?

Speaker 5 (01:01:17):
Yeah? Jefferson in eighteen o three had like given the
state like the right to do states things, but he
had forgotten to sign the paperwork. That's like, this is
a state.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Now. Oh that's funny, so it until sounds liked.

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
Eisenhower in nineteen fifty three, he had to like back
draft all the paperwork. Oh, it wasn't actually a state
until nineteen fifty three.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
This might be a dumb question, but was Ohio part
of the Confederacy or were they part of the North.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
They were part of the North. Yeah, okay, yes, but
but I do believe that if you go far enough south.
I'm sorry, I'm not from southern Ohio, so don't come
after me. Okay, I do believe there are possibly still
some sun downtown's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Yeah, Illinois.

Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
There's more in Illinois than I ever thought there was.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
Well yeah, yeah, so it's it's southern Ohio is but
up north, I think, yeah, we were a little bit
more progressive, although now we're kind.

Speaker 5 (01:02:19):
Of fun for real.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Pretend that's not happening.

Speaker 5 (01:02:27):
Yeah, I guess you forgot to sign the paperwork, which
like maybe there was a good reason for maybe Ohio
was never meant to be a state.

Speaker 4 (01:02:34):
You know, that'd be crazy. I just like it's just
like one little like one little patch of land.

Speaker 5 (01:02:41):
You can't even go to kena nuts, just like it's
too far.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
To Ohio seemingly adorable with its nuts and stuff, has
also been the birthplace to some pretty freaky folks.

Speaker 5 (01:02:55):
Charles Manson was born there. Yeah, serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer.
Of course he committed his first murder. I believe he
committed more when he's younger. They found one, but like
he lived in the woods for sure, for sure to
take all their bones and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
So I think I mean not counting all the animals
and ship that he too, like did whatever with in
the in the shed in the woods. And like so
Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer and even worse Logan and Jake Paul,
Oh my god, oh god, they are the worst. They
have that reality show now And I'm like, nobody asked

(01:03:30):
for that?

Speaker 5 (01:03:31):
Did the people ask for their They were so like
cute and charming on fine when they were just like
doing flips.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Although their mom is becoming quite the meme I guess
about it. No, she's just like I think. I think
the gist is that she drinks to get through the day,
and it's like, oh my god. I mean they're millionaires now,
like I should do I should? Yeah, I agree, I agree.
I would affull be famous.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
It would be really a lot easier, so much easier,
so much easier.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
I would be drunk all the time if those are
my kids too. Speaking of Charles Manson, although his culty
crimes took place in California and not in his birthplace
of Ohio, he was actually briefly incarcerated at the chilicothe
Yeah thank you Chili Coffee Correctional Institution in Chilicothee, Ohio,

(01:04:23):
for one of his many burglaries or assaults that he
delighted in before his eventual helter skelter thingy.

Speaker 5 (01:04:29):
Yeah. This prison, built in nineteen sixty six originally as
a military camp, is exactly where today's resident resides at
this very moment. Ooh, we hope hasn't there been like
a lot of jail breaks recently.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
There's that big one in New Orleans with like six people,
and then that one with the cop where they let
him out. I was just reading about one. It might
have been the New Orleans Woman. I can't remember, but
the hole that they escaped out of was like it
was like in the wall behind where the toilet should be,
and over it they wrote like a big smiley face
that just it was like too easy lol, with like

(01:05:02):
an arrow pointing to the whole.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
And you don't even want to be like it's like
you're so upset because all these like nuts are out,
but you're also just like, well, your dumb dumbs, like hello,
you love them.

Speaker 5 (01:05:15):
You can't help, but just give. Like there was a
TikTok that was super funny because the whole first week
that they got out, I was seeing like a ton
of memes and everybody being.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Like, yeah, fuck the system.

Speaker 5 (01:05:25):
And then someone was like, so I found out that
a lot of them are actually like rapists. Yes, they're
actually like really bad guys, like I'm just hoping it
was like tax evasion, but no, they're like real violent criminals.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Of everyone's like, oh, yeah, I know. This is where
this is where I'm like, Okay, the line between like
glorifying this criminal culture is so thin because people were
all on board with like Luigi Mangioni, I still am right,
but like and like Gypsy Rose when she got out
of prison and people started making her a big celebrity

(01:05:57):
and I'm like, yo, but like, they still murdered people.
The internet culture is so unhealthy. It's crazy and everyone
loves like it's it's they like the fighting, fight demands story.
But exactly when they're like details, you know, they're like
murders and rapists out here and they're really terrible, right, Okay,

(01:06:18):
it's a different.

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
Know who exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
No Wikipedia article in at least in the very a wikipediartic.
Hopefully this guy's space behind his toilet is secure because
I do not want him to get out of prison.
Oh great, awesome. His name is Sean Great, Great Great.

(01:06:44):
He's not great, He's the opposite of great.

Speaker 5 (01:06:46):
God before it to him. Let's focus on a woman.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:06:50):
This woman is known only as Jane Doe. Now, unlike
most Jane Doe is in relation to true crime. I
feel this Jane escaped with her life. She's still alive.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Okay, I hope she moved the fuck out of Ohio.
I hope so too.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
So they never disclosed her name.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
No because she was a minor.

Speaker 5 (01:07:09):
No, I believe she was like thirty eight, but they safety, Yeah,
they just never disclosed her identity.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Fair.

Speaker 5 (01:07:18):
I don't know, like exactly why. I don't know if
it was just she was like, I don't want none
of y'all to tell who I am.

Speaker 4 (01:07:23):
Yeah, but sure, yep, Well that means nice of them too, Yeah,
because then I.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
See Jane Doe, I assume that they've passed through. Yeah,
And it's not super common in the US. It's more
common in like Europe and the UK for them to
go out of the way to like cover up or
not disclose the identities of the victims.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
Even she went in to witness protection or something. Could
I hope she did. I hope she had a better
life after this, definitely could be. Sean Gray entered our
Jane Doe's life through the Ashland Salvation Army Ray and
Joan crack Core Community Center.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Well that is a mouth which is a mouthful, where
the two single adults would often take walks, played tennis
and socialized with other club members. Okay, so it was
a golf club. It was like Salvation Army. Oh so
it seemed I'm not gonna lie. I got a little
lost in the title.

Speaker 4 (01:08:12):
I don't even know where are we? Where are we
in Ashland? Yes, we're in Ashland?

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Okay, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
So it was like, that's like a collegey town, right,
because there's a college.

Speaker 5 (01:08:23):
It looked really nice. Yes, and the program Salvation Army
I'm not a big fan of, but it seemed like
it was like a community center, but it seemed like
they helped a lot of people who were down on
their luck or like unhoused. So it was like, yeah,
we can all do activities and we'll feed your lunch.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:08:41):
So the two were friends, with Jane remarking that Sean
was like an older brother to her. Sean, however, clearly
wanted more and would constantly ask her out or proposition her,
and she was like, fuck no, even though we don't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Isn't it crazy because I do know people like this
where they're like, I just need to hound you enough
and then.

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
And then you'll say yeah, terrible.

Speaker 5 (01:09:07):
Just no means no, yes, I've gone past that, and
I'll just bite you. You looked really bite bite embark Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that is true. The only way to get a man
who's interested in you away from you is to scare him.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Yeah, that's it's like a crazy person. Yeah yeah, like
a goblin.

Speaker 5 (01:09:29):
It's just you know what, it's just an occupational hazard
when we are so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
That's very generous things.

Speaker 5 (01:09:41):
You're generous and only truth. Ever, she always refused so
a lot of even though we don't know a lot
of it about Jane Doe. She was said to be very,
very very religious and very like she had firm boundaries,
which is good, Like she refused to give anyone her
phone number, and especially Sean a lot of it even

(01:10:02):
though she was really religious. When they were talking about it,
I was like, maybe she was just like, no, I
love God, I actually don't want to make out with you.
Oh like a good excuse, right, yeah? Use it kind
of absolutely absolutely actually unfortunately already married to the Lord.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
Yeah I can't. I can't possibly.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Yeah yeah, saving myself for Jesus. Yeah, like it's not you,
it's God.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
Use that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
I think so too. And she always she was like, no,
you know, it's fine, but she continued their friendship, considering
him to be harmless.

Speaker 4 (01:10:39):
Oh boy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
One day on September eleventh, Oh God, bad day, the
pair decided everything terrible happens on nine eleven. Everything.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
I'm like, girls, stay home, it's not The pair decided
to take a stroll to Sean's house. So again I
don't know he well, I'll get into that later. I
don't know her living situation. A lot of the people
who were in this Salvation Army thing were down on
their luck or unhoused. Yeah, so he said that he
had like some clothes to give her, which I would

(01:11:09):
think was weird if they weren't both kind of like
down on their luck.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Ye know what I mean? Yeah, Like why would a
grown man have clothes for you? Yeah, that's very common
in that situation, like helping each other out and write. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:11:23):
So I was like, okay, like that's a nice thing
to do, because otherwise I was like, that's weird. You're right, yeah, absolutely.
I just wanted to make it a little more understandable.

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
Why she went, because why would a man have.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
And how old was she at this, like thirty eight okay, okay,
still about the same age as still right, Yeah, So
that's that would be if somebody was like, hey, I
got some clothes for you in my house. Well, that's why.

Speaker 5 (01:11:45):
I kind of thought, like when I first listened to it,
and I don't mean any offense by this, it's not
her fault.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
No. For sure to it, I was like, okay, why
were you really going there? Yeah, like for what? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:11:55):
But then I was like, oh, well, if they're both
kind of down on their luck and it's like hey,
I have some warm for you or something, then it's like, oh, okay, right,
that makes right, that makes sense. But Sean had other
things on his mind, horrible things, and three days later,
Jane Doe would be recorded on a call to local
police begging for her life, her voice pitched down to

(01:12:16):
a whisper to avoid waking up her sleeping attacker.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (01:12:20):
You see, I had to remember that she survives us.
She does, Okay, I forgot. Sean had had enough of
Jane's rejection of him, and he was irritated by her
setting her healthy boundaries. She was, actually, this is so sad.
So they went to this house, was like, this is
my house, and she was like, I thought, you're homeless, okay, whatever.
And she's sitting on the couch literally reading passages from
the Bible. That's how like devouch she was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
And he came out and said, you're not going anywhere,
punched her in the face, and then proceeded to beat
and sexually assault her like two nights and three days,
tied her to the bed, tied her in like weird.

Speaker 5 (01:12:57):
Positions like bending her leg back and stayeh. He even
this is so sad. This is really gross. He shaved
a heart into her like pubic hair. Ooh, yeah, he's
a freak. That's weird. Freak, that's weird.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
I just I'm like, okay, let's say like not justifying
anything that he did ever, but like let's say he
like loved her or whatever. This is how you're gonna
treat her for real. Like even like the extent that
he went through was like that, you know, I have
no words, and.

Speaker 5 (01:13:32):
He completely like so all of these this is one
you know, I love interrogation. So yeah, this is like
a big three hour like interrogation thing on YouTube. They
posted it so you can watch. He tries to justify
it so much. He like he admits to it, and
he'll say things like because the there are two cops

(01:13:54):
that end up interviewing him. The first one's a guy,
and he doesn't get too much out of him. The
second lady they brought in, who I'll bring up later,
was a lot like nicer to him and like chiller,
and he had a really bad relationship with his mom,
like they were very so she played him a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
I was gonna say, there's obviously like some mental something
happening of some psychological people.

Speaker 5 (01:14:16):
I've ever talked to, like talk to talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
I called him every night for this story.

Speaker 5 (01:14:22):
No, He's like, because he's so convinced like that he's right.
Because the first officer had also interviewed Jane, I'm like
getting ahead of myself. But like he was like, you know,
I've talked to her and she said you did this
and that and you had sex with her against her will,
and she he was like, I actually don't think after

(01:14:43):
the first time that it was against her will because
she really enjoyed it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:48):
Fucking she wouldn't have had to tie up if.

Speaker 5 (01:14:53):
No kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
And I was like, I actually really like this interrogator
because he just didn't like obviously it was effective with
Sean's personality. He needed that like motherly energy from the
second detective to actually feel comfortable enough to confess. But
I was like, I love this first guy, because he
said exactly, he would be like, well, no, because you
tied her up and punched her in the face. You
told me, but that's too rational, like you're not thinking rationally.

Speaker 5 (01:15:21):
Like it's horrible. But it was really interesting hearing him
talk and like justify like, well, no, I mean she
I had to do this because she's hiding behind her
religion and that's why she doesn't want to I know
what she really wanted to exactly. Yeah, And it was
just like it wasn't even that far into He was
just casually saying, I'm like you believe that. Yeah, you're

(01:15:43):
a fucking nut.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Ye, Like yeah, not good.

Speaker 5 (01:15:47):
See that sounds more like insanity than my guy.

Speaker 4 (01:15:50):
Yes, for sure, he's delusional completely. As the kids would say,
de Lulu living in.

Speaker 5 (01:15:56):
Delue, given toilet, givety.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Toy at Ohio, Ohio.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
You're welcome a young please.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
I don't know what I just said, did I swear?

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
I don't know?

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:16:10):
I think I think it means like something. It's like
not great, Okay, it's not great. And on top of
that is like, yeah, it's like the worst thing.

Speaker 5 (01:16:18):
I don't even know it meant anything.

Speaker 4 (01:16:19):
Yeah, it does.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
Give me toilet. I thought it was just something they give.

Speaker 4 (01:16:23):
It a toilet. I don't know that's real.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
I need to ask have we're of an age?

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
We are?

Speaker 5 (01:16:30):
And she was like I hear that all day.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
Yes, Like I'm so sorry. You know, we're definitely of
an age now where I'm like so disconnected from I
get where my parents were coming from, all those years
of us using ridiculous Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:16:45):
I went to the park the other day and I
saw grafiti that said keep it stigma. I'm like, does
that mean keep it real?

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
Is that good?

Speaker 4 (01:16:50):
It does mean keep it real?

Speaker 5 (01:16:52):
It does keep it. It's like we're like looking at
higher grips. What could this mean exactly? The snow I was.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
We were explaining something to my friends, like gen Z
brother and he was like, oh my god, you guys
are cooked. And I was like, is that good that guy?

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:17:11):
It could go either way, yeah, and he was like
or like cooked as like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
You cook because I think like let him cook?

Speaker 4 (01:17:19):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Yeah, anyway, okay, move on, we can move on it,
like dad, these old women get back to the nursing home.

Speaker 5 (01:17:27):
Grandma yes, seemed to be gentle with us, so Sean
held Jane there at the house for about three days,
and on September thirteenth, she was able to steal his
phone when he was asleep and courageously called nine one one.
Now you can actually hear like the full nine one
one call since her identity has been redacted. I didn't

(01:17:49):
really feel comfortable playing it, but you can go online
and hear it, and.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
It's crazy crazy, It's.

Speaker 5 (01:17:58):
A super tense it's like twenty minutes super tense phone
conversation because she's like being very very quiet. She's in
the same room, he's like two feet away, so she's like,
I don't know, I'm in this fucking house and this
house stinks. She's like, I need to get out of here,
and the and I understand, but the operators like how
tall is he?

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
And she's like, oh fucking is madder? Bitch sent the police.

Speaker 5 (01:18:20):
Right like hurry up, and like she's completely naked. She's
trying to get out of the room. At one point
during the phone call, she knocks something like because it's
a hugely messy house, garbage everywhere, she knocks something over.
He wakes up, she has to like stay still.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
He goes back to sleep.

Speaker 5 (01:18:36):
She's trying to get out. He had she was tied up.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
He had.

Speaker 5 (01:18:39):
She had like kind of freed herself enough there that
she could go, but like he had punched all the
doorknobs out of the doors, so she couldn't get out.
Like it was crazy, Like she was like, oh, I
was kind and used to go into the wrong house.
Apparently the house next door looked identical. Yeah, so they
were like trying to figure out who's house it was.

(01:19:00):
But I was like, just go in there.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Yeah. It was really like heart pounding very much. So
finally the police, guided by Jane's detailed directions, swarm the house,
allowing Jane to run to freedom, and once in the house,
apprehending Sean Great, who had never woken up.

Speaker 5 (01:19:18):
He was just asleep. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
Both of them were completely naked.

Speaker 5 (01:19:21):
Like in the interrogation video taken after the arrest, he's shirtless.
He's just in like some basketball shorts. Yeah, because obviously
they didn't want to like arrest him with this wiener
out right right, ideally ideally no wieners at all. Wieners.

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
Yeah, No, we don't want to say that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
No, no, and I don't right now. If you've listened
to this podcast for a while, you'll know that I
really enjoy listening to interrogations.

Speaker 5 (01:19:44):
That's like a niche for me. It's interesting to me
to watch people try to lie and to watch people
like realize that they're in trouble.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Bad people right, right.

Speaker 5 (01:19:55):
And as someone who's watched quite a lot of these videos,
I can definitely say Sean Great is one of these
strange people I've ever seen. His energy is so off putting.
He's so weird, Like half the time he talks like
a little boy, and then he talks like a man,
and he goes back and forth like no, I didn't
do this thing, well I kind of did it, and
then he'll try to justify it. But his speech pattern

(01:20:16):
is so off.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Do you think it's like a like a multiple personality
thing or like just that he he did.

Speaker 5 (01:20:23):
Get diagnosed with like the very overarching term of personality
disorder once he was in prison. But I wouldn't be
surprised if there was some did Okay for sure?

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
That's that's it. That's yeah. I know that over the years,
the diagnos some stuff has changed. Yeah, no, no, no,
I just know you're thinking about that too. Yeah, because
it does. He's also that is kind of a controversial, yeah,
diagnosis when especially when it tarts to violent crime and
stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:47):
But I misunderstand it. I think people take it to
like people take it to like a fantasy level, and
it's like, no, no, there aren't actually separate people, like
they're not getting possessed like by ghosts. It's just different
aspects of of the personnelity. I was like, you know,
I just think people don't really Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Because that's what it's especially when you're talking about changing
mannerisms and changing speaking patterns, like that's kind of the
portions where you don't remember where you were at right
right for sure? For sure, for sure, And that comes
from trauma, which he had, Oh trauma, oh trauma. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:21:21):
He clear he clearly did not have any issues with
women at all. Relationship with his absolutely a lovely lady.
Yeah yeah, no, I don't go into it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
A lot of love, A big piece of shit.

Speaker 5 (01:21:34):
Yeah, not a feminist no.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:21:37):
Back at the police station, while Jane was at the
hospital with them, beginning to tend to her many wounds.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
She was really fucked up. The detective begins to question
Sean about Jane and his disgusting actions towards her. Sean
takes a bit of prodding, but eventually, and especially when
the detective switched in the face of overwhelming evidence, he
admits to sexually assaulting, violatinghyically assaulting, and kidnapping Jane Doe.

(01:22:03):
The detective is sort of patient and thorough, and you.

Speaker 5 (01:22:06):
Can see, like when this is still the male detective,
you can see that he's sort of like, this is
pretty open and shut. Yeah, you know, you rescue a naked,
bleeding woman from an abandoned house. She points and says, yep,
that's the guy, and now he's pretty much confessing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Slap a ball on it. It's done.

Speaker 5 (01:22:22):
But the interrogator had no idea what other secrets Sean
was about to divulge. Oh my god, I'm not really
interrogation proceeded, so he didn't know. Like so he had
connections with cause there were police and like investigators investigating
the abandoned house, like, oh, we'll get some DNA and
just make sure and whatever. So they were just like, oh, yeah,

(01:22:43):
we just have to collect some evidence. It's not like
a huge deal. It turned out, like I said, the
house was abandoned, it did not belong to Sean. He
had just been squatting there. It had electricity but no water.
It had been like abandoned for a little while, so
he'd been squatting there for a couple of months. Right away.
Entering the house was difficult because it was in massive disrepair,

(01:23:04):
massive piles of clothes and garbage, super horder, yeah, very
much hoarder. There's pictures of it online. They're disgusting, very
very bad. And they started to notice. They were like,
it really smells in here. That's probably all of the garbage. Yeah.
Some of the more experienced cops were.

Speaker 4 (01:23:22):
Like, oh god, oh no.

Speaker 5 (01:23:25):
They went up to the second floor and they opened
one of the closets because they saw like flies on
the outside.

Speaker 4 (01:23:33):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Elizabeth Griffith had been reported missing a couple of months previously.
She was also a member of the Salvation Army Center
where and Jane had met. She was a bright, lively,
musical person who unfortunately suffered from a lot of mental
health conditions. She had paranoid schizophrenia, so she had a
lot of people like looking out for her. Was positive

(01:23:56):
she had because she'd been to mental health facilities before.

Speaker 5 (01:24:01):
She had like I don't know what to call it.
I keep thinking probation officer, but it's not exactly the same.
It's like someone in the mental health field who's like checking.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
Her, like counselor type something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:24:11):
And like she did have a therapist who called who
was like, she's not showing up. Something's been a little
weird with her behavior. But they were all really concerned
about her because like in the last photos taken of her,
she had had an episode with her schizophrenia and she
had like lit her head on fire, so she had
no hair, and she was but she was actively trying
to get help. She's improving herself, and and everybody who

(01:24:34):
met her was like, she's just such a wonderful person,
super super nice. But so when she stopped showing up
at the center, people immediately started to worry. In the interrogation,
Sewan actually brought her up and said something about Elizabeth.

Speaker 4 (01:24:49):
You idiot.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
The detective.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
No one did anybody ask you, No, no, no one
asked you, So shut the fuck up, right, come on now.

Speaker 5 (01:25:03):
So the investigator, this was still the male investigator wasn't
from the area, but he was like, wait, Elizabeth, because
Jane Doe had brought her up too, oh separately.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
It's not known why she brought her up because her
interviews aren't public, but I'm guessing it's one of those like,
oh my god, I need to stop going to this
fucking center because all of a sudden, this girl's missing,
and now this guy at the center who I thought
was my friend kidnapped me and assaulted me. So I
met it was something like that, or if she was
like maybe this area is going bad or something. So
he was like, Elizabeth, who's Elizabeth?

Speaker 5 (01:25:33):
Why are you both bringing up Elizabeth?

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
That is so weird.

Speaker 5 (01:25:36):
After a few weak denials, Sean eventually said, quote, I
set her free. Oh that's fucked up.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
Elizabeth's body was located in a second floor closet. She
was decomposed, her remains half heartedly covered with more piles
of clothes and garbage. And she wasn't the only one. Downstairs.

Speaker 5 (01:25:56):
In the cold, dank basement lay the body of Stacy Hick.
So there's two bodies in this house, Sace Stacy. This
story really messed me up because this poor lady just
had nothing. Stacy wasn't from the area, she had had
some troubles with drugs. I believe she was in her

(01:26:17):
forties or fifties, and she was kind of passing through
the area to make a new start, and it was
raining and her car broke down. Luckily, she was right
by a gas station. She was like, okay, I guess
i'll walk there, and who should be there but this
young handsome man who's like, oh my god, I'm really
good at cars. I can help you with your car.
He helped her.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
They went into the gas station together fixed the car,
and again it's a small area. I'm assuming the gas
station attendant was like, oh, isn't that nice? You know,
so there were no red flags for her.

Speaker 5 (01:26:48):
She was like, this is so nice. He helped fix
her car. They got to chatting.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
He's like, hey, you want to hang out? She's like sure,
and that was it. Oh poor woman.

Speaker 4 (01:26:57):
You know what disturbs me about this also is like
at first, now again not justifying anything that he did. Sure,
but when when it was like one and it's like
Jane Doe and he's like because I loved her and
all this bullshit, I'm like, all right, it's just one.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:27:12):
No, now we've got like yeah, so now you're like.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
I'm not done.

Speaker 5 (01:27:17):
Oh god, I got more parents. Oh my god, lucky.
Imagine being those cops or harder yet, imagine being poor Jane.
Turns out, through her own bravery and cunning, Jane had
escaped a full blown serial killer.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
Yeah, so she.

Speaker 5 (01:27:34):
Probably figured this is a guy I know, and like,
again I don't agree with this, but like, imagine what
she must have been thinking. She's like, this guy went nuts,
Like sure.

Speaker 4 (01:27:42):
Exactly, that's what I'm saying, That's what I was thinking.
This is until there were bodies.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
I have gotten into so many discussions with people like
friends of mine, people I work with, where they are
like I know my partner so well, you.

Speaker 5 (01:27:58):
Know anyone, no, absolutely everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
They would I would know if they were a serial killer.

Speaker 4 (01:28:04):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
And I am always like, you would never know now
they were good, you would never fucking know. They're like
I don't believe you, and I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
Like no, It's like when you were talking about the
dog at the beginning, I'm like, but do we really
know that that dog is not gonna buy anybody because
your dogs? Doc'm in nature to say that.

Speaker 5 (01:28:21):
Like, because we're so vulnerable, I feel it's like we
have we have to have that comfort, Like, well, I
know everyone that I'm around, but it's like there are
a lot of dead people who would say.

Speaker 2 (01:28:31):
The same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:28:32):
Yeah, same thing.

Speaker 5 (01:28:33):
You can't think like a serial killer because you're not
a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
I notice that there's people that we knew in high
school and in college and stuff that have done some
very surprising, shocking things that that are people that I
thought I knew pretty fucking well, you know what I mean.
So I always hate that argument.

Speaker 5 (01:28:52):
That's like, yeah, it's very really no people. Yeah, but
I think people do it to like comfort themselves. But
it's like, well, you never know until.

Speaker 4 (01:28:59):
And it's not your fault that someone you know was
a serial killer is not yours.

Speaker 5 (01:29:04):
Not that No, you can't you can't predict that kind of.

Speaker 4 (01:29:08):
Yes, And if you question, like, oh, well, how how
could you not know that you were living with a
serial killer? Because they were normal.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
At home, right, yeah, very chameleon like come on now,
and everyone, like after this came out, there were there
were people his own mother was like, well, I mean
she said something like, well, he's handsome, but the devil's
handsome too.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
It's like that's your sun girl, Like she knew so nice,
Like she's probably she knew the.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
World she mated it yeah right right, you know and God,
yes that Sean. So when when in the interview both
with the male interrogator and the female interrogator, because he
he like would like kind of confess to the male
interrogator as soon as they found the body, they were
like were switching interrogators because like, this isn't working that well,

(01:29:56):
we want information faster.

Speaker 5 (01:29:58):
He presumed that they all righte he knew. He kind
of thought the male detective was like jerking him around,
like where's Elizabeth. He's like, don't you know where she is?

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
You have to know already house, So he was.

Speaker 5 (01:30:10):
Like, why are you again?

Speaker 4 (01:30:11):
Dum dumb right right.

Speaker 5 (01:30:13):
He was kind of like looking at him like, that's
one of those boys who were like, Elizabeth.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
You said, I didn't say you did? Were remember that?

Speaker 5 (01:30:25):
Some playback that helped his confession, or rather someone was
Detective Kim Maker, who was brought in to try to
get more information from Sean. Her approach to him was
almost motherly, gentle but firm, and it worked Wonders because
Sean continued to divulge disgusting details, not just about Jane,
Elizabeth or Stacy, but about further victims Cunningham had actually

(01:30:49):
dated Sean Gray and when she had moved to Mansfield, Mansfield,
Ohio for a fresh start after some troubles with drugs,
they lived together in an abandoned house, not the same
one different. How different house this was in like a
very They showed pictures of it after and it looked
like just a house in the woods, like it looked
like it had.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
Been abandoned for a long time. Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:31:09):
One day, allegedly after an altercation, Sean killed her by
choking her to death and then he threw her body
into the nearby woods insultingly. During the interrogation, again, this
guy is just like he's like, yeah, I did that,
but it was because she did this and that. It's like, no,
you don't kill people. Sean, Sean, Sean great, Yeah, Sean great,
Sean not so great. He said that he killed Candace

(01:31:32):
because she attacked him. When you look at pictures of her,
she is so small, like, I know, listen whatever, I
know that you knew what I was going.

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
I guess men happens. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:31:43):
But she's tiny to the point of being frail, little
bird bone arms. Well, you said she had a drug problem.
She was recovering from Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:31:52):
And if she attacked him, honestly, there was probably a
good reason. Sean about you.

Speaker 5 (01:31:58):
Why are you living in this abandoned house in the
woods exactly an apartment? Yeah, literally be a man. Yes,
it did seem there's always this like undercurrent in all
of these stories about that seemed like they kind of
involve people who are using drugs, Like yeah, sure, I
don't know if he was a drug user or if

(01:32:18):
he was just preying on like people.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
He had to know that he was going after this
vulnerable like that was the crime vulnerable population.

Speaker 4 (01:32:26):
Exactly, So I don't know did he ever get into
like why he did it or like what caused him
to do it?

Speaker 5 (01:32:33):
Like each one it was kind of like so with Candace,
he said like, oh, I lived with her and she
was such a bitch. And he said in the morning
she woke him up by throwing a bag of tobacco
at him and was like, roll me a cigarette. He
was like, you woke me up to roll you a cigarette,
Which I don't smoke cigarettes, but it sounds like something
I would do to my husband.

Speaker 2 (01:32:52):
I'd be like, make make up coffee. Yeah, that's what
you're supposed to do, yeah, my husband and then he
killed her. So it sounds more of like a control issue.
It's exactly, can't control the women, but it's their fault
because they're not letting me control that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:06):
Because at first, before we got to Kansas, I was like, Okay,
well maybe it's some like vigilante shit where he's just
kind of like, well, you know, like they're on drugs
and I'm still saving them.

Speaker 5 (01:33:16):
That's part of a lot of the other ones. Is
like when they ask about Elizabeth, who was the one
who had paranoid schizophrenia. She was obviously very vulnerable, and
they were like what happened? And he ended up kind
of implying that she like came on to him and
he wasn't attracted to her. And then then he started
being like, well, I'm this like amazing person, and I

(01:33:39):
could tell she was hurting and she told me she
wanted me to kill her, so I did.

Speaker 4 (01:33:43):
I'm sure she did.

Speaker 5 (01:33:44):
You're welcome, and like he would say things where it
was like almost like yeah, realizing she was like, well,
I started choking her and then she got really upset,
so like she went over there and was really mad,
and then I had to kill her because she was
going to tell people. So his like awareness of what's
going on is so.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
It's not a rational justification, not at all.

Speaker 5 (01:34:06):
When what was her?

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
Was that Stacy, the.

Speaker 5 (01:34:12):
The girl that he killed where he helped her with
her car? Yes, he uh, he didn't know her. They
didn't know each other. She agreed to come back to
his house, which again I'm not audishing on Stacy, she's
supposedly sober, but I'm like, was he like, I have
drugs at the house, you know what I mean? You're
not gonna go with somebody some random guy's house for

(01:34:33):
no reason. And if she went, hey, have a good
time girl, sure, that's okay, fine.

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
But it didn't work out that way, he had said,
because the woman detective was like, okay, you know what
did she did she piss you off?

Speaker 5 (01:34:45):
Did she come on to you? And he says that
he had sex with her, which again it's like did
she want to do that?

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:34:53):
And then he was like, well, she exposed herself. I
knew that she was a liar. And she's like, why
do you think that she was a liar? He's like,
because at the gas station she I know that she
she's one of those girls who uses sugar daddies.

Speaker 2 (01:35:06):
She was like, how the heck you met her for
like five minutes. How would you know that? Yeah, well
she said something to this guy at the gas station,
was like, hey, you know, you got me whatever, and
so I knew that she.

Speaker 5 (01:35:17):
Had sugar daddies. It was totally.

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
He misinterpreted, Right, Yeah, because I can't tell you. I
don't I mean, I don't want to. But the gas
station and stuff in Maringo, you become regulars. You see
the same people out there all the time. You get
a bit of a banter or whatever, like that's not
that unusual.

Speaker 5 (01:35:35):
She had children, and it was like she was so friendly.
She would like it wouldn't be unusual for her to
go with someone and think that we were friends. So
he totally misinterpreted. He also had a big problem with
people who were receiving government assistants. A lot of his
victims were receiving government assistants. And it's like, Sean, you
live in an abandoned house, Yeah, right to judge, Right,

(01:35:57):
I'm community shelter to get food.

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
You're not that different than they are. I don't like,
there's nothing wrong with being on the right. No, why
are you being a bitch?

Speaker 5 (01:36:06):
So he did have when you said like vigilante, he
did kind of have that outlook that would kind of
come and go where he was like, yeah, well that
he had this whole quote about like, well, they're already
dead because the systems supporting them, which.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
Is like, what is the system for? Then, I do
think that it's probably my guess would be like an
after the fact thing to again justify like, yes, maybe
I did do these things, but what do you care?
Because really I'm just helping them.

Speaker 5 (01:36:35):
I'm just cleansing the streets. Right, we're also homeless.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
Yeah, are you talking about Wild Wild getting convicted of
five murders. There was another one where there was a
young girl who he thought scammed his mom, which like
why do you care because she abused you? Whatever?

Speaker 5 (01:36:59):
Girl, you know what, weird relationship with women. Weird relationship
with women. Yeah, And he would just it was like
he would commit a crime and then he would just
go somewhere else. In the abandoned house he ended up
when he took Candae out to the woods her body,
he burned the house down. Those are all the pictures
I saw where I was like, oh, it's so weird.
It doesn't even have like a driveway, like it's just

(01:37:19):
because it had been overgrown and everything. So he was
just like burning my problems.

Speaker 4 (01:37:23):
Yeah, fire, I don't see And I feel like in
his in his mind, he's like, I want to respect women,
and I have no idea how in like.

Speaker 2 (01:37:33):
A very way, I didn't, right, because he was very
like I'm such a nice guy.

Speaker 4 (01:37:40):
Yeah, even like dealing with like the female interrogator, like
you know, like she was like motherly completely and so
it's like he like, I think in his mind he
is right.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
I think so he's not right.

Speaker 4 (01:37:53):
In the mind he's wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:37:55):
Yeah, but he thinks that he's this like that's yeah,
that's totally super crazy. I would highly recommend checking out
the interrogation if you have the stomach for it. It's
very interesting. Yeah, he says some pretty fucking disgusting things.
Wo pretty disgusting. He was indicted on all on twenty
three counts, which there were like some lesser charges that

(01:38:18):
were like tampering with evidence, breaking and entering for being
into hollis burglary blah blah blah. He pled not guilty, well,
his attorney pled not guilty, like for him but he
confessed to the press to all five murders, which like,
why are you talking to the press?

Speaker 2 (01:38:34):
Idiot? Idiot? His attorneys filed.

Speaker 5 (01:38:38):
Of course, they tried not guilty by reason of insanity,
but I disagree.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
I mean again, yes and yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah,
and yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:38:51):
He's talking to the press the whole time he's talking
to the news. He's giving all of these confessions, so
much so that his attorneys filed for a gag order
on him. His own attorneys were like, actually, shut the fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
Up, because God stop it, which, to be honest, is
also like a covering their ass thing because you don't
want to be accused of not properly representing your client,
but like, it becomes very hard to properly represent when
he actually turned on ABC because he just right right right,

(01:39:24):
Because honestly, if they didn't yeah, or if he did
not stop and they didn't put a gagger on him,
they would have had every right to fire him as
a client.

Speaker 5 (01:39:32):
I thought that was like pretty clever. Yep. I felt
I actually felt pretty sorry for the attorney, So I.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
Was like, that's kind of sucks.

Speaker 4 (01:39:38):
We're trying to help you.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
Yeah, they ended up they did because of the claims
of insanity. They did like a whole.

Speaker 5 (01:39:46):
Uh what is it evaluation on him, and they were like,
he's fine, Like he's not insane legally sure, like he
knows the difference between right and wrong. He knows what
he did was wrong. He fucking did it anyway, So
they withdrew that. We're like, oh, just kidding, Okay, We'll
just go forward, and he was. He ended up pleading guilty,

(01:40:07):
so he had two separate trials. The first trial legalize,
he pled guilty, showed no remorse. He pled guilty to
the murders against Stacy Stanley and Elizabeth Griffith, so that
was the first one. He was sentenced to death. The

(01:40:29):
initial execution date was supposed to be September thirteenth, twenty eighteen,
but because there was an appeal, they like had it pending,
so he was just like hanging out on death row.
And then there was a new trial for Rebecca Lacey
and Candace Cunningham, and then he was sentenced to life
in prison without parole for Lacy and then seventeen years

(01:40:55):
to life for the other ones. And for all of
these he would plead guilty. Yeah, he would appeal against
the death sentence, which he would lose with the Ohio
again being kind of like ify on it. He is
still on death row, hanging out.

Speaker 2 (01:41:11):
He was actually scheduled to be executed on March nineteenth
of this year, but because of all his appeals and
again because of Ohio being like kind of fucky, Yeah,
he is still there. Well, and right now it's a
big problem of getting the drugs that they need to
get and having ones that are getting ready to expire,
and there are questions about whether the current cocktail is
the most effective e'sicle.

Speaker 5 (01:41:32):
Right, This was kind of interesting. This is a quote
from this website. Ohio no longer uses lethal injection, but
the state law does not currently permit any other method,
so they're kind of like, we don't really know what
to do. So he's still sitting in prison. Yeah, and
that's the story of fucking Sean Grat.

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
That's crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:41:54):
He sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:41:55):
That sucks. Yeah, he sucks. He sucks. I'm surprised that
they did not get him any sort of insanity plea
on any of those because that it seems more I'm
not saying that he was, but like it seems more
likely in that sure in case than it did in mine.

Speaker 5 (01:42:10):
I think it honestly is because he kept talking to
the press.

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
Yeah, he talked so much.

Speaker 5 (01:42:14):
Stop talk, corrogation is so long. He had multiple interrogations,
and then he's giving interviews to the press. I think
that they could no longer like they were just like
all right, yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
Like you're on wild yeah wild yep. Wow. Did you
know there were so many horrible people in Ohio?

Speaker 4 (01:42:31):
I mean I did, but these ones I hadn't heard
of so.

Speaker 2 (01:42:35):
Awful, awful. Well, before you decide to take a vacation
in Ohio, why don't you check out this podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:42:42):
Hello, this is Margo P.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
And this is Margo D.

Speaker 4 (01:42:46):
And we are the Margoss co.

Speaker 3 (01:42:48):
Hosts of the Book Versus Movie Podcast. We are the
podcast that talks about films that are adapted from books.
We read the book, we watched the movie, and then
we decide which we like better, the book or the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:42:59):
Now, I know what you guys are gonna say, dug,
the book is always better than the movie, to which
we always reply, have you ever read jobs?

Speaker 3 (01:43:08):
We are not film experts or literary geniuses.

Speaker 4 (01:43:11):
Nope, We're just two friends who like to chat about
books and movies, we really like to.

Speaker 3 (01:43:15):
Go for a deep dive into the history of the
book and the background of the author, and the trivia
from the movie set.

Speaker 2 (01:43:20):
And most of all, we just like to have funs.

Speaker 4 (01:43:21):
We never take ourselves or the books or movies too seriously.

Speaker 3 (01:43:24):
You can find us wherever you sign up for your
podcast under the name book Versus Movie, and on.

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
Social media you can find us at book Versus and Movies.

Speaker 4 (01:43:32):
You just spell it all out.

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
Hope you check us out soon.

Speaker 5 (01:43:38):
All right, folks, that has been our show, our episode,
Yes on Lovely Ohio.

Speaker 4 (01:43:44):
It was so.

Speaker 2 (01:43:48):
Much for show.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
Yes, thank you for having me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
Absolutely so.

Speaker 5 (01:43:54):
In real life, you are a doula.

Speaker 4 (01:43:57):
Yes, I do not, you know, hang out with murderers
or no things like that. No, No, I actually hang
out with people who are bringing life into the world.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Crazy, that's insane.

Speaker 4 (01:44:08):
So yeah, I'm a birth doula postpartum doula for my
company ESCO Birth and Family.

Speaker 2 (01:44:14):
Yeah, I would.

Speaker 5 (01:44:15):
I would trust you with my children if I hadn't,
I were trust children.

Speaker 4 (01:44:19):
I work in like the Chicago Land area western suburbs. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
If people wanted to check you out, where's the best
place to find you?

Speaker 4 (01:44:26):
Oh man, that's really terrible because my website is down.

Speaker 5 (01:44:28):
Right, I know I was.

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
I was just thinking about that because I saw the
post about it going yeh.

Speaker 5 (01:44:34):
And check it out a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:44:36):
Yeah, Esco underscore birth and Family on Instagram. Okay, also
look me up on Facebook.

Speaker 2 (01:44:43):
Okay, yeah, definitely if you have a for sure, I
have realized after talking to you how the importance of
having a doula and why people should consider it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:56):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:44:56):
I wish.

Speaker 5 (01:44:57):
I I mean birth can really, I mean it can
really fuck you up. It really can.

Speaker 4 (01:45:03):
I mean really another podcast, you know, we'll be done
on birth and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Yeah, yeah, messy Business, Yes it is, Yes, it is
the podcast Messy Business. Oh man, you would be good anyway. Yes,
so definitely check Caitlin out on all of those things.
Do you have any final thoughts before we I'm not
gonna close out.

Speaker 4 (01:45:28):
I'll be there later this summer.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
Like unfortunately you kind of have to go. Yeah, and
my parents are there, yes, same, okay, but you know
to be careful, yes, I do. Where to avoid the
serial killers exactly exactly? All right?

Speaker 4 (01:45:44):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
Our sound and editing is by Tiff Fulman. Our music
is by Jason zak Schevsky, the Enigma. This has been
the Bad Taste Crime podcast. We will see you in
two weeks. Good bye. By the law of the highway,
must have to ceiling want to wear it.

Speaker 4 (01:46:06):
It was as if a wave of people washed over
with town.

Speaker 5 (01:46:10):
Must have to feel they wear it in some form
or another. M

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Episode 205 - Skibidi Toilet Ohio

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 205 - Skibidi Toilet Ohio