July 24, 2025 • 55 mins
Vanished into thin air. This week, Rachel and Vicky dig into the baffling cases where people disappear without a trace, leaving more questions than answers.
You can check out 600 Second Saga here!
Research links below!
Medium - "A Decade of Unanswered Questions Surrounding Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers"
All That's Interesting - "Inside The Final Days Of Kris Kremers And Lisanne Froon And The Eerie Photos They Left Behind"
LAD Bible - "Sobering story of two tourists who vanished before camera was found and left behind disturbing clues"
UNILAD - "Friends who vanished while hiking left disturbing photo evidence on their phones"
Strange Outdoors - "The disturbing deaths of Kirs Kremers and Lisanne Froon on their La Pianista Hike in Panama"
Celina Koh Blogs - "Blog #1: The Tragic Disappearance of Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers"
Springfield Police - "Three Missing Women"
Medium - "The Crazy Case of the Springfield Three: Where Are They?"
Newsweek - "Three Women Vanished. More Than 30 Years Later, No One Knows What Happened"
KY3 - "'The Springfield Three': 32 years since the disappearance of Suzie Streeter, Sherill Levitt, and Stacy McCall"
FBI - "The Springfield Three - Springfield Missouri"
Springfield News-Leader - "Three Missing Women: Ten Years Later - Part 1 of 5"
Ozarks First - "Decades-Old Evidence May be Future of Missing Women Case"
Springfield News-Leader - "Pokin Around: 3 missing women; here, then suddenly nowhere"
You can check out 600 Second Saga here!
Research links below!
Medium - "A Decade of Unanswered Questions Surrounding Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers"
All That's Interesting - "Inside The Final Days Of Kris Kremers And Lisanne Froon And The Eerie Photos They Left Behind"
LAD Bible - "Sobering story of two tourists who vanished before camera was found and left behind disturbing clues"
UNILAD - "Friends who vanished while hiking left disturbing photo evidence on their phones"
Strange Outdoors - "The disturbing deaths of Kirs Kremers and Lisanne Froon on their La Pianista Hike in Panama"
Celina Koh Blogs - "Blog #1: The Tragic Disappearance of Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers"
Springfield Police - "Three Missing Women"
Medium - "The Crazy Case of the Springfield Three: Where Are They?"
Newsweek - "Three Women Vanished. More Than 30 Years Later, No One Knows What Happened"
KY3 - "'The Springfield Three': 32 years since the disappearance of Suzie Streeter, Sherill Levitt, and Stacy McCall"
FBI - "The Springfield Three - Springfield Missouri"
Springfield News-Leader - "Three Missing Women: Ten Years Later - Part 1 of 5"
Ozarks First - "Decades-Old Evidence May be Future of Missing Women Case"
Springfield News-Leader - "Pokin Around: 3 missing women; here, then suddenly nowhere"
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hy upon their arrivals unspeakable. I'm not they it's you
(00:23):
gotta worry about.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Something.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at
least I felt that I could keep their skeletons.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm Rachel,
I'm VICKI Oh my god, Welcome back, or if you're new,
welcome in.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
If this is your first time listening, a special hello
to you. We are in back again. Yeah, I have
an exciting episode for you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Very excited. Get excited, Get excited. Pump it up, pump
it up up for murder in the full throws of summer. Ye,
throwing it back first summer. Excited me too.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This will probably be I probably will have just had
a birthday by the time this comes out.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Gemini season, Yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It's in like two weeks. So yeah, definitely, so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So that's fun. Yes, plan no birthday plans. No, but
she's gonna end up going to like eighty two events
because she's a Gemini. I know it's so true. Yeah,
we'll see. I don't I don't actually know what I'll
be down. She's allergic to idea.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I'll be happy if I get macaroni castlele and meant
chocolate cake from my mom, what the hell is macaroni
castle dude? It's a classic Midwest cast role. But it's
something that my mom makes that I just is like
my favorite meal. It's macaroni with ground beef and tomato
sauce and normally there's like corn and like mushrooms and
some onions and you put it into a baking dish
(01:56):
with breadcrumbs on top. Cover bird comes me big. It
can't beat, so goa Midwestern The cake. The cake is
where it's at I always ask for. It's a mint
chocolate cake, but it's a white cake and you use
creme dement in the batter and then it's a layer
of like fudge topping, and then you put a little
(02:18):
crem deament in the cool whip and it's a layer.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Of cool whip.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
So it's not like it's like a hard minty thing,
but it's really that makes me hard. That's my favorite. God,
it's my favorite cake.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It is so funny. That's my favorite cake is when
my mom used to make not not as fancy, but
it's like the the yellow cake. I really like the
yellow cake. And then she puts, uh, it's like two
circle cakes, and in the middle she puts like preserves,
like Lingenberry preserves and like the dark chocolate. Ganagh. Oh,
(02:51):
that sounds chocolate. It's like my favorite. Yeah, that does
sound really good.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
That sounds I've got bad to look for it too, hopefully. Anyway,
I guess we should probably head over to the newsroom.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I guess watching locals today, we had.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Fifty So this week our news comes from Harvard. We
are who know the school? Oh the school, sorry, Harvard
Medical School specifically. Yeah, fifty seven year old Cedric Lodge,
(03:30):
who was formerly the Harvard Medical School morgue manager. Oh
what a spooky job, pleaded guilty to interstate transport of
stolen remains and he's looking at ten years in prison currently.
What so there, I've been seeing increasing reports of this
and it's being talked about widely more more widely now.
(03:54):
But there are rings active in the United States of
people dealing with theft of body parts.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And oh my god, yeah, ew.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So this particular one, they were thefts from the the morgue.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
He's just slaying in people.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, they were from twenty eighteen through March at least
March twenty twenty, Both Cedric Ladge and his wife were
part of a nationwide network who bought, buying, and sell
human remains stolen from Harvard and a mortuary in Arkansas,
ew Dot.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I ask for what is it? Why are people buying these?
Is it like medical stuff? That's a lot of what
it is is like medical. They want it for like
testing and stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Maybe some of it's that, some is dissected dissections, some
things are you know.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And the thing is like, especially with a facility like Harvard,
because it is a medical school. Our bodies that are
donated to the school for education and research and things.
But once they're done with them, typically they are cremated
and then the ashes are returned to the family who.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Don't like Yeah, no, no, I'll take care of it
for sure. Just leave the body with me for sure. Cremated. Yes,
that's what I'm doing. I'm not selling it.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, yeah, you see it, says Denise Ladge, who is
the wife. Several other defendants have pleaded guilty to various
charges stemming from the scheme. Prosecutors have said she negotiated
online sales of several items, including two dozen hands, two
feet nine spy nine spines, portions of skulls, five dissected
human faces, and two dissected heads.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Ew Denise, that's gross.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, so what the fu? Yeah, but this is something,
like I said, this is something that increasingly I'm seeing
being reported, is these sort of like body part rings
that are being run through mortuaries or crematories or funeral
homes or like.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That's like the craziest thing. That's crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, because this is not the first story of this
I've heard. It's just surprising coming out of Harvard Medical School,
because that is a very prestigious Oh.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Like, Cedric, you're gross. You and Denise are sick. Yeah,
don't worry, he's guilty. I agree. We're just waiting for something. So,
oh my god, that's that.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
We're gonna move on to Netflix and Kill which this
week we are talking about Into the Fire, The Lost Daughter.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh uh huh? Which have you watched us yet? Or no? No,
I know what it is.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
So this it was really really interesting. It's a two
part series that came out in twenty twenty four. It's
by Ryan White, who also directed The Keepers. If you
remember The Keepers, one.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Of my favorites. Fantastic crazy good.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yes, And it is about this woman named Kathy Turcanian
who who was sort of I don't I mean, she's
sort of forced to give up her daughter for adoption
when she was young and later finds out that her
(07:13):
biological daughter that she had to give up has been missing,
went missing in nineteen eighty nine. That's crazy, and so
she sort of starts investigating to see if she can
find out what happened to her biological daughter under the
care of these adoptive parents.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Wow. She works with Carl.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Koppelman, who is sort of this websleuth skuy to look
into the Bowmans, who are Andrea's adoptive family, right, and there,
I mean, like Dennis Bowman and the father's been accused
of sexual abuse. There are, you know, things in the
(07:52):
past that are kind of like questionable. And then in
twenty nineteen, Dennis Bowman is actually arrested in connection with
a different cold case, and during that arrest he does
admit to killing Andrea not long after she had disappeared
officially and bearing the remains in their back of the
(08:16):
of the backyard of the house that they.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Were in at the time.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Oh no, So it's it's very I mean it follows
her she's sort of investigating this case, and oh how sad.
It is incredibly sad. But at the same time, it's
great that they were able to come to a conclusion
as to what actually happened to.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Her, anything like Behind the Creators of the Keepers. The
Keepers was yes, yeah, that's one of my all times.
So it is, it is, it is comprehensive.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yeah, so this is end because it's only two parts, right,
this is I definitely suggest it. It's very interesting, especially
because it is it's sort of also about this connection
that you have with your children, like your biological children,
and she, I believe was not She didn't necessarily want
to give up her daughter, but because of her circumstance,
(09:08):
was sort of in a position where she had to.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
So, and frankly, what can happen to people who are
given up for adoption, because obviously the home she was
placed in, although might have appeared fine, they.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Could end up they could, right exactly.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
So if you want to check that out, it is
called Into the Fire the Lost Daughter. I definitely would
suggest it. This that part of the show where we
say content may not be appropriate for all listeners. Actually
mine is like not too crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Mine too. There's definitely like you know, death and human
remains right right right?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, talk, Yeah, mine's not actually too crazy as far
as violence is concerned.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Mine too, sad Yeah, you know, So what are we
talking about today, Rachel? So, I thought this week I
would kind of cast a wide net and do one that.
Normally I don't really like these cases because I'm annoying
and I need to know the answer, right you like
a bit of a result. I do, otherwise I obsess
(10:10):
over it forever and ever and ever. But this I
just put as missing people. Okay, there are these people
we don't know. I don't know. Well, mine end up
being found, but not you know, in an exciting way. Okay, Okay,
in a sad way. Oh great, cool. I love that.
But it's more like what happened, yes, yeah to these people. Yeah.
(10:30):
So this one, I wonder if you've heard of this.
These are the deaths of Chris Krummers and Lussanne Froun. No,
I am not familiar, Okay. I almost wonder as we
go through it if you're gonna be like actually, because
this is one where like when you go to when
you go online and it's like pictures of grizzly crime
scenes twenty most you know what, yeah, the some of
(10:53):
these pictures are always in these Okay, because this is
there's like a collection of photographs that are really eerie
and weird. Yeah, okay, maybe yeah, maybe yeah, maybe I'm
wondering if you're going to be familiar. Okay. So Chris
Kremer's and Lysanne Froun were two Dutch students. Okay, they
(11:13):
were really good friends. They ended up living together at
some point. They were roommates. You would have loved Lissanne
because she was a volleyball player. It's a passionate volleyball player. Yeah,
that's yes. Chris had just gotten her degree in like
(11:34):
art education. She wanted to be an art teacher, and
Lissanne had a degree in applied psychology. So they were
both they both had these like really cool degrees. They
were both committed to helping people. They wanted to help children,
and after they graduated from college, they were like, you
know what, let's take like a little bit of a vacation,
(11:57):
a little bit of kind of an educational vacation in
let's go to nerds. Well exactly super nerds, I know,
like they seemed like such sweet girls. In these kinds
of cases, what's unfortunate is even if you're a victim,
the media is going to find like every skeleton in
our yea, which like if you really do bad things understandable.
(12:17):
But sometimes it's like, okay, so they had a lot
of boyfriends who cares. Yeah, really we're gonna victim blame.
But these girls really were like super super nice and sweet. Yeah,
super nice and sweet. Uh So they were like, let's
go to Panama. Okay, this will help us to learn
Spanish because again they were Dutch and there they wanted
(12:39):
to quote do something significant for the locals. Okay, so
they wanted to like create programs and help volunteer. It
was kind of a a very rural area of Panama,
so they were like, if we can do anything to help,
we would love to sure, which is so nice. So
they sweet sweet babies. They saved up for six months
(13:02):
together in their little apartment. Yeah, probably eating ramen noodles
the whole time. Yeah. So they arrived in Panama March
fifteenth of twenty fourteen. Okay, and at first the trip
was going super great. They're touring the country and then
there's like a kind of an informal program set up
there where students or travelers can volunteer to like stay
(13:26):
with a family. It's almost kind of like host family,
but yeah, quite that formal. Yeah yeah, yeah. But since
they were volunteering like through like an organization, they were
able to kind of set that up. So they toured
the country for two weeks having fun before arriving and
I apologize so bad. Bouchete Cheriqui. Yeah, hell yeah, Bouquete
(13:46):
Cheriqui in Panama, which again super rural. Okay. So they
went with the family they were going to do volunteering
with children. They hadn't quite started.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I would assume that these families have been like vetted.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Oh yeah completely okay.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It was like a nice family with kids, Okay, and
I think it always is, you know. Imagine like, hello,
I am a single man here to receive.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
These two who knows, but they seem like a sweet Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
So they're having fun. They were like out on the beach,
out having dinner, just having like a fun girls trip.
On April first, around eleven am, they decided to take
a hike. They weren't super experienced hikers, but this was
like right by a village, you know, they had hiking
(14:35):
trails and stuff. They were like, oh, I do think
I know this case. I do think I know this case. Okay,
I thought this was kind of cute. The family their
like host family, had a little dog and they were like,
we'll take the dog with us. We'll take your dog
for a walk and we'll be back in a little bit.
So we're just gonna go for a hike. So this
was They called them the Clouded Forests, which I think
(14:55):
is like so spuky on the l Pianista trail, which
was not not far, just like a normal trail that
people take. They also wrote on Facebook that they were like, Yep,
we're going to go take a hike. We're have fun.
And the day before I believe they had had lunch
with some they found other students who were Dutch, who
(15:19):
were two guys. So they went on like a cute
little double date lunch thing, and they had been talking
about like, we can't wait to go for this hike.
It's going to be so much fun, so fun. The
host family like so they all day they weren't really
expecting them. They were like, oh, they're having fun. They're
probably out with those boys or whatever. But then all
of a sudden, their dog came home by itself. Okay,
(15:40):
out with the girls Lessanne's parents, So she would text
them like constantly about what they were doing. Yeah, they
were like, we haven't heard from her in quite a while,
like hours and hours, like this is pretty weird. The
next morning they were supposed to, uh, they were going
to go on another hike, but with a guy, okay,
(16:00):
and they didn't. They didn't show up okay. By April sixth,
like just six days later, the parents arrived in Panama,
were like fuck no, yea full investigation, so full police cooperation, dogs, detectives.
They brought like detectives from the Netherlands with them. Oh
like oh fuck no, well it makes sense, makes sense, yep.
(16:24):
And they immediately offered a thirty thousand dollars reward information.
So right away police are getting to work. There is
sort of this undercurrent in the story which is a
little tricky because it's also like like are they being racist?
You know what I mean? Yeah, like these Panama police
are not doing a good job and they don't care
and they're not looking for these girls, which I don't know.
(16:48):
There's a lot on both sides of that, right, I
don't really know.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I don't know if I do think that the infrastructure
for that kind of investigation in Panama is not as
is well maintained true as it is in the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
That's true. The Netherlands is very like advanced.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
And it is partially just because of the money coming
in and out of the country and the resources available
to them.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I do think that is accurate. So it must have
seemed to them, yeah, like maybe almost like primitive. It's like,
it doesn't mean they're not doing anything.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right, and I'm sure like the Panamanian authorities were probably
a little protective, right, like people are coming to our
home term, but like.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Hey, let us do our investigation. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So
they started searching, they started talking to locals, and there
would really be no update until ten weeks later, on
the fourteenth of June. Okay, that's my birthday. I was
gonna say it, like it's your birthday, my birthday. Yeah, okay,
(17:53):
Well this is a sad part. Oh great, cool love
that a local woman who had been like in the
area turned in. She's like, I found something, and I
think it looks kind of weird was Lsan Frun's blue backpack.
She found it by like a river bank, which I
looked at the maps. She was from a village called
(18:16):
Alto Romero, which is not super far from there, but
she was like, I don't know what this backpack is,
and it ended up being Lassan's backpack, gotcha, which had
in it a little bit of cash, which was around
eighty dollars. Funnily enough, all of the like you know,
I watched a ton of documentaries and stuff about this,
and like read a bunch of articles. It all said
(18:37):
that it was eighty dollars, but one would be like
eighty three dollars, eighty five dollars, eighty, like how much money.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Was then it's around eighty, Like it doesn't but it
was just funny, Like a lot of things were really consistent,
but with this, I was like, how much money?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Tell me? Tell me? Yeah? Yeah, So had a little cash,
had fruons like in ssurance card, her camera, two bras,
both of their phones, like a water bottle, and two
pairs of sunglasses. Okay, so it's like, why are both
of their phones in this backpack? Super weird? Yeah, I mean, okay,
(19:14):
keep going, I know it's like kind of like okay, yeah,
the phone. So like immediately they took the phones in
and started like doing Netherland forensics on all their records,
and it showed that around six hours into their hike,
one of them on their phones had dialed like the
emergency number for Panama, which is one one two, okay,
(19:36):
and then they were also dialing nine to one one. Yeah,
there were like thirty something calls that were like emergency calls,
all in a short period of time, like between like
four thirty and five pm. They were just calling, calling, calling,
but because they were in the middle of the rainforest,
none of the calls connected. Sure, they were not able
(19:58):
to make any successful calls at all. None of the
calls went through, right, that's yeah, they so scary. So
that was the day they went missing, was April first.
By the fourth of April, according to phone records, Prun's
phone battery died. Her phone finally died after four days.
(20:18):
The phone was never used again because obviously they weren't
able to charge it. The other girl's phone wouldn't make
any more calls, but it would show that they turned
it on every so often to like look for reception.
That they were unsuccessful. And what's kind of weird is
between the fifth and eleventh of April that phone, Chris's
(20:39):
phone was turned on multiple times. But there's like a
weird thing in the phone records where they were like,
we can't quite tell if because like it would turn on,
but she had a passcode, so they were like, either
someone was entering the wrong passcode or they weren't entering
(20:59):
a p code and it would just turn off, Like
we really don't know. So there's a lot of suspicion.
You'll you'll see at the end of this. There are
kind of two ways that people think. And I mean,
I think they were kidnapped or like someone was trying
to hack into their phone. But I'm like, maybe she
was using it for light. She could have been using
it for light.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
If they are just turning it on to chuck to
see if they's signal you don't have to go past
the lack screen. Yeah, and exactly because opening your lack
screen takes up more battery power than just looking at
your home, you know what I mean, like oct Yeah,
because you can just look and see the bar to
see how much you have no bars. Yeah, And honestly,
(21:38):
I'm thinking part of the reason they may have left
the phones in the backpack.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
In my head, I'm thinking.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Okay, if they're dead, Like, if they're both dead, why
carry unnecessary items. That's totally true, you know, very because
at that point there, I'm sure they're like, we're lost
in the jungle forever. We're never going to find a
spot to charge these It's not like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right, yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah, that's like one
side of what people think. Yeah, I agree with you.
And finally, on the eleventh of April, the phone was
turned off for the last time. It was turned on
that morning briefly but again not past the lock screen,
and then it was never turned on again. Yeah, and
(22:18):
that was it. Then they found because it also in
the backpack was the camera, Lissett's camera. So they were like, oh,
let's see if they took any pictures, and pictures they did. Yes.
So luckily they were able to piece together from the
pictures like where exactly the girls had hiked, and it
(22:41):
turns out that they probably took a trail that was
by the Continental Divide because it has really great views.
They had a couple of pictures of the views. There's
like a really sad picture on the trail of like
the two of them like besties.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, before anything went horribly wrong.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Exactly, looked like they were having so much fun. Yeah,
so sad and then but that trail, I guess it's
like possible to wander off. Like it's a little confusing,
ok there, So they think that they probably wandered into
the wilderness because the rest of the pictures are in
thick jungle. They're not in the trail anymore on the
(23:20):
eighth of April, so they're looking through this camera. Ninety
flash photos were taken in like a short period of
time between like one and four pm because it was
or no am, I guess, because it was in complete darkness,
so they were obviously using it to see where they
(23:40):
were going. Sure the flash and a couple of the
pictures are like this is the thing. You'll be very
proud of me, because this is another one of those
cases where people are like, what if it was something supernatural? Weird.
There's a couple of the photos where like stuff looks
a little weird, but I'm like, it is the jungle.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, I understand the feeling of them being very eerie, right,
knowing what happens afterwards, that this is literally like the
last images these people are seeing and it is documented
because that is not usual, right, I understand the eerie
feeling from that, Like I definitely get that from these pictures.
I don't think it was anything like supernaturally.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Either, or I think there's no evidence of them. No. No,
Like even like before when I was getting everything ready
for this, I was like trying to get a website
that had a bunch of the pictures and I went
on Google Images and it was like, look at this
thing in the corner, a beastie of some sort of
like yeah, or it's an animal because they're in the rain,
(24:42):
or a.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Bug like a mosquito orb right, Like, oh my god,
the orbs. I'm sure people are, but I'm like, it's
literally dusty and rainy and mosquitoes and bugs.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And that's one thing you'd be very proud of me for.
I'm orbs ghost evidence at all.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I'm so proud of you something. Yes, I'm always so
proud of you.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yes, Oh my god, can you say that and pretend
you're my dad? Oh my god, I just to send
Daddy's proud of you. Now I'm turned on it so
uh so some of the photos, while not supernatural, are
(25:29):
are mysterious because it's like, were they using these photos
like for light or were they trying to document something
not something supernatural, but like people are like with somebody
chasing them, because there's a big theory that they were
they were murdered, that like somebody came upon them and
killed them. I don't think it's impossible. I think it's
a lot more likely that they just got lost because
(25:51):
it's the rainforest. I think they just got lost. But
there is a picture that's of the back of Chris
Kremmer's head, obviously taken by the other girl, and it's
hard to see because it is the flash, you know,
makes everything so overexposed, and she's a redhead as well.
But if you look at the picture, you can kind
of see where it looks like there might be blood
(26:13):
on the back of her head. Okay, so it's possible
that like maybe she fell down and they're trying to
be like, Okay, let's see how bad it is. Let's
take a picture so we can see, which makes sense.
One of the major theories of the case, and one
that I believe, is that one of them probably fell
down and got hurt. And then that's why it went
tits up so fast because they weren't able to find
(26:36):
their way back to the trail, right, you know, they
weren't able to figure it out. Yeah, no, I get you.
So once they found the backpack and all of the pictures,
they were like, well, let's go to that area and
try to figure it out. Let's try to see what
we can find. So that's near the Calubre River. Okay, okay,
let's figure that out. Right away. They found Chris's shorts
(26:58):
on top of a rock, which was pretty nearby to
where the backpack had been discovered. Okay. Two months later, unfortunately,
they were to find something a little worse because somebody
was like, oh, I found a boot, but the boots
still had this foot. It was a little skeletonized. But
(27:21):
then obviously they were like oh shit, they brought in everyone.
They also found a pelvis, so they were like, okay, yep,
these are human bones. So once they came in, they
found at least thirty three widely scattered bones. They were
able to DNA test and they were confirmed to belong
to both Kremers and froun oh Man, something that again
(27:43):
a lot of people kind of like cling to for
like a supernatural theory or the murder theory, which again
I don't think the murder theory is ridiculous. I just
think it's less likely is that Prun's bones because they
were found in kind of the same area. All of
her bones, A lot of them still had like tissue
and skin stuck to them. Sorry gross, but Kremer's bones
(28:07):
looked bleached, like they were like dry, yeh, which can
happen if you leave them out in the sun. That's
what I think. So I just kind of assumed they
were left somewhere else in an area with so much
animal activity. I feel like you can't really say what happens.
You can't be like, well, that means that she was
somewhere else, and all of this stuff stupid. In total,
(28:32):
only around five percent of Kremer's bones and ten percent
of fruits were found, but they were cohesively linked to
DNA or comprehensively not cohesively. Yeah, they were looking at
the bones to see because something that's like really unfortunate
in this case is that a lot of racism against
(28:55):
the people of Panama was like really rampant because they
were like, well, obviously they killed these girls, but there's
no evidence at all, and for what I think it
would have been really dumb to kill them, because you're
a really rural area where these two girls with obviously
wealthy parents are coming and they're attached to an organization,
so it's like they're gonna notice they're missing, and they're
(29:16):
going to go after you. In this small town, they're
going to figure out it's to you. So I don't
really think. And there's this whole thing of like there
was this awful thing about like, well there's native tribes
around there that practice cannibalism, which is unconfirmed, so it's like,
obviously they were eaten by these terrible people from Panama,
and it's like whatever.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, no, for me, this one has always I mean,
it's very tragic, but like I think it's far more
likely that they succumb to the wilderness. You're talking about
these pictures being taken and potentially somebody like following them
and trying to see them. I think it's far more
likely that they could have been being followed by an animal,
(29:54):
which if you're taking pictures at you know, two o'clock
in the morning and those are animals adapted to a
hunting at night, right.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Absolutely, they're in an unfamiliar environment. They're from the Netherlands.
They were both from like pretty like urban areas, so
I'm sure they saw these big old trees and were
like shit, yeah, so unfamiliar and in pitch dark, and
they're scared. Yeah, they don't speak the language, so even
if they come across people, they can't ask for help.
They're probably incredibly stressed. I definitely think that one of
(30:24):
them hurt themselves. I think so too, because I think
once you add injury, it's like, oh god, oh, what
do we do? So even if they were normally level
headed girls, they might have just wandered further and further
into the forest, right and panic. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And honestly, even the way that like their their items
were found and their remains were found, like it does
definitely just seem like they probably died somewhere out in
the woods and then were ravaged by animals.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
That's what I think too, especially because so little of
their bones were found. Yeah, you'd think if it were
a murderer, they'd find either their whole body or like
none of it, right, they would just like throw you know,
and it wouldn't necessarily be like fragmented either completely completely.
I agree with you. A forensic anthropologist because they were
looking at the bones to see if there were any
(31:11):
kind of like scratches or marks like from a knife
or something, said that the bones were completely whole, like
they were. There's no damage detected because of like there
wasn't a huge amount found. A lot of people say
this is inconclusive, but I think it's still something to
say that, like there's no because a lot of the
(31:32):
bones that they found were like spinal bones. If you're
getting stabbed, that's going to show, like Nixon, the bone
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Usually might I mean depending on the angle and stuff.
That's true, because if you're being stabbed from the front,
it's not. Depending on the knife that's being used, it's
not necessarily going to go.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Through to the spine. That's true. It might, but like, yeah,
it's any more likely and then not comprehensive. But the
fact that they didn't find any at all like animals, yeah,
I think so too. I think so too. I will
they have an open obviously the girls are deceased, but
they have an open investigation for if anybody knows something
(32:08):
or if anybody has seen something and I will link
it in the show notes. It's really sad because they
really were. They seemed like such charitable girls, super nice,
they were nice to all the locals. I just think
it's such a tragedy. It's sad. Yeah, I wish they
would have waited until the next day and gone with
the guide. But like, this is the path, do not
(32:30):
go off the path. But it can happen to anyone.
I feel, oh absolutely so that one's always kind of
like haunted me. Sad.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
So I decided this week to look at the case
of the Springfield three that I'm not super familiar with.
But it's kind of weird. It's very kind of weird.
So this case revolves around three women, nineteen year old
Susie Streeter, eighteen year old Stacy McCall, and forty seven
(33:11):
year old Cheryl Elizabeth from Springfield, Missouri.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Cheryl was working.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
As a cosmetologist at the local salon, and she was
actually Susie's mom. She was a single mother the two
and the two were reportedly pretty pretty close. It was
just the two of them in the house. Yeah, it
was nineteen ninety two and Susie.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Baby I was two years old then.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
So yeah, yeah, So it was ninety two and Susie
and Stacey had just graduated from Kickapoo High School on
June sixth, So it was a time of celebration. You know,
anybody who makes it that far is like, when you
graduate high school, it's like, oh my gosh, because it's
this opening of a new chapter. Right, It's sort of
(33:58):
your first steps into adulthood, don't know, right, I mean
that's what you think. Yeah, I know, and then you're
like me, you're thirty five and you're like, I'm still
not an adult, so that's cool, You're an adult kind
of kind of yeah. So so yeah, So they they
graduated high school, they were looking forward to moving out,
(34:18):
going to college beginning exactly, and of course they were
celebrating with their friends, so they were there was like
the day of graduation, tons of parties suff going on,
and lots of plans for the following day. Yes, so
on the evening of June sixth, they had intended they
had kind of like party hopped a little bit, and
(34:39):
they were at a party that they were they were
planning on staying at this friend's house, but the amount
of people staying there, it had gotten way too crowded,
so they were like, eh, instead, we're just gonna go
back to Susie's house.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We'll stay there with her and her mom.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, and then the next morning we'll meet up with
you guys. They had plans to go to a water
park with their friend, Janelle Kerbie, so they're like, okay, yeah,
we'll meet up and then tomorrow morning we'll meet up
and go to the water park. Right, So, around two am,
they go back to Susie's house that she shared with Cheryl, and,
(35:18):
like I said, as they said they're goodbyes. They told
Janelle that they would meet up with her at her
house in the morning. However, they didn't show up the
next morning, and you know, I will say, Janelle assumed
that they had accidentally slept in. You're literally coming off
of a day of partying. Like it's like, oh okay, yeah,
(35:38):
it would not be out of the realm for them
to sleep in. So she was like, well, we'll just
go get them, and so Janelle and her boyfriend went
over to Susie and Cheryl's house to pick up Susie
and Stacy.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Oh no.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
When they got there. First of all, they noticed it
wasn't open, but they noticed that the front door was unlocked, okay,
when they got there, and all of the cars were
still outside, but it didn't from the outside appear like
anybody was home, right. The only thing, and they Janelle
and her boyfriend told us to police later, the only
(36:12):
thing that was kind of off was that the porch
light was smashed. And it sounds to me that it
was like the housing was smashed, but the actual light bulb.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Wasn't broken, okay, and so just weird.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
In the interest of safety, they swept it up, I mean,
I mean evidence, but but they didn't know that a right,
So yeah, they had swept it up. And then they
did let themselves into the house because again, all the
cars are here, it looks like people are home. They
when they went in, they noticed that the family dog
was still there and that it seemed very agitated, like
(36:49):
just it was it sounded like it was a little dog,
So it was just kind of like this agitated dog.
While they were there, the phone rings and Janelle answers
it and on the other end is a male making
like sexual innuendos and noises. So she hangs up and
this person calls back again, which was like kind of weird.
(37:10):
So they were like, well, maybe something's a little off,
but they decided to leave. A few hours later, Stacy's mother, Janice,
went to Cheryl's home because she also hadn't heard from
her daughter at that point, and when she arrived, she
noticed that all of their belongings and bags and stuff
were in the still in the living room, but again
like it didn't appear.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
That anybody was home.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
So the other one of the other things, Cheryl's purse
was on the floor. It had a cash deposit of
eight hundred dollars from work. From Workantha salon okay, she
hadn't taken yet. She also noticed that there were recently
used makeup wipes along with keys and jewelry, indicating that
they had actually come home and like changed taken off
(37:54):
their make a right, you know, like got ready for
bud whatever. Well that's a good observation by her. Yeah,
that's what I was thinking too, Yes, Detective. The other
thing that I found interesting, and again it's like if
you know your friends fall enough, these are notice right,
there were cigarettes in the house next to an unfinished
(38:14):
coke can of coke, which was kind of unusual because
Cheryl had been described as a chainsmoker, so like she
wouldn't go anywhere without taking her cigarettes, especially like leaving
the house of course, I mean behind. So she was
like it was like obviously she did. Yeah, So she
was like, this is there's something going on here.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
So we're still being there and everything too.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
With the money in it, right, like nothing taking my
eight hundred dollars with me didn't seem like anything was
taken from the house, didn't.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, So it was very strange. So she decided to
call police. So she was there sort of waiting for
them to arrive. She's kind of looking around to see
what she can see. She noticed that there were messages
on the answering machine, so she decided to listen to
them to see if they were any clues. Yeah, kind
(39:04):
of like, yeah, so this is from from medium, she said.
Quote there was a strange message that immediately alarmed her,
but for some reason it was erased.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Later on, police would say they thought the message might
be included to the disappearances, but later said they didn't
believe the prank calls Kirby had answered were related.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
End quote. That's weird.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Janelle would also say later that although the calls were disturbing,
she remembers Susie telling her that one that pretty much
since she moved in with her mom in that house,
they had been getting prank phone calls.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
From somebody since she had been there.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
So it sounds like maybe it was like that's a
little another student or like probably a neighbor boy, right right,
just being weird. Yeah, so it did not seem that
they were as concerned about these pranks.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I'm concerned about it, yea, let me hear you.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
The other thing I want to point out, because I
remember seeing this pointed out, is that in the nineties,
with answering machines, a lot of times to save tape,
once you listened to a message, it automatically erases it
on machines. So like by doing that in erasing the message,
which she might not have known, that might not have
been super common at that point, but it existed.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Like, yeah, so that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
It would take a full day for police to arrive
at the house to start their investigation, after multiple concerned
friends family members had gone over to look for them,
and like at those high school parties getting drunk, yeah,
maybe probably, but by that time again, like people had
come over and checked on them, like multiple people. Police
(40:45):
have estimated between ten to twenty people had entered the house, including,
like I said, various friends and family who were worried
completely corrupting the scene. So if there was any evidence,
it's fucked now, Like that sucks. Yeah, but it's their
own fault because they had such a delayed response, right.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
It should have been taped off already.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Yeah yeah, yeah, even if you couldn't get like investigating
officers there right away, like, yeah, they did not do well.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Shot is great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
When they did finally arrive and begin their investigation, they
found no force entry and no sign of struggle other
than the busted porch light. They also noticed a bent
window blind in the window above Cheryl's bed. I'm gonna
be honest with you, though, I don't really find that
that unusual. Those blind suck, no, And you know what
I'm talking about. It's like the metal ones. I have
(41:36):
them in my apartment, Like when I moved in, they
were some of them were bent already, right, you know
that to me, and it takes like zero.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Ft like that thing. Yeah, completely, I agree.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
So that to me is not as unusual to be like, oh,
they came in through this window.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I don't know about that. I agree.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Police estimated the trio had disappeared between the hours of
two am to eight am. Cheryl had scheduled appointments and
like work clients and stuff in the days following their disappearance,
indicating it wasn't likely that she just laughed ran away.
Both Stacy and Susie also were scheduled to work later
in the week, but again like, no, but they did
(42:16):
not show up for these shifts.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, obviously.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
There was an immediate search effort by Janice, Stacy's mom,
who began canvassing the neighborhood and putting up missing persons fires.
The FBI also got involved in the search effort a
few days after the disappearances, largely in part due to
the strangeness, like the circumstances of it, and the fact
that it was multiple people, yeah, that were missing. So
(42:43):
they came in to help, and they aid it in
searches of surrounding wooded areas. At this point, honestly, because
this is like a few days afterwards, they're looking for bodies. Yeah,
they're looking for corpses at this point. But they did
not find anything. She Their initial investigation focused on Bart Streeter,
who was the strange brother of brother and son of
(43:08):
Susie and Cheryl. Okay, it was, yeah, Cheryl's son. I've
only seen him really described as having problems, oh dear,
which could mean a number of things. Could mean dragon, alcohol,
could mean mental scambling, addiction, maybe he is violent, like
it could mean a lot of things. But they kind
(43:29):
of had severed their relationship with him because of that
whatever it was, and police did look into him. That
was kind of their first gut feeling. But he was
cleared as a suspect after they confirmed his alibi and
he passed polygraph.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Okay, although he sounds suspicious right right.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Although they had some initial thoughts about like transience possible
transience hey in the area, and some of Susie's boyfriends
not being the greatest people, nothing really pans out in
the beginning. It wasn't until Yeah, it wasn't until the
story of the Springfield three was featured on a July
(44:15):
nineteen ninety two episode of America's Most Wanted. This was
about a month after the disappearances. Yeah, there were twenty
nine calls within the first week after airing Wow. Five
months later after the episode air it aired in December
nineteen ninety two, a man called their hotline to give
(44:36):
a tip about their disappearances, saying he had intimate knowledge
of what happened, but was accidentally disconnected when the switchboard
operator was attempting to connect him to the Springfield authorities. No,
they did try this public appeal, like if you were
this person that called in, please call us back, Like
(44:56):
we're waiting for you to call us back. But they
never heard from this mystery person.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Oh that's stressed, and I mean it could have been nothing, right,
but it could have been something.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, you never know.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
There's also claim from this one's kind of wild. There's
a claim from a local reporter in two thousand and
seven that they may have been buried under the parking
garage of Cox Hospital.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
The reporter even got a specialist with ground penetrating radar
and found three abnormalities in the ground. And they described
them as like two parallel and one horizontal. Okay, like
two parallel, vertical and one horizontal they found under this
parking structure. However, that's not enough, right, that is not enough.
(45:47):
There's not Yeah, there's not really. At least it sounds
like from the police police's point of view, evidence that
anybody who worked on that site or whatever like would
have put some thing. I don't know, certainly not enough
solid proof to deal with the cost associated offending a
parking structure. Yeah, because they had been there for a
(46:11):
number of years, and then you literally have to take
down like the whole parking structure to get underneath it.
So they did not investigate this any further, right, because
it just didn't seem moreorth it to them.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
It's worth it to me now.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Obviously, when you get a missing person's case like this
that goes on for a long time, it's often riddled
with theories of all shapes and sizes. This is no exception.
We talked earlier about the possible transience and sort of
the brother connection, both of which were very loosely connected
and unsubstantiated. As far as Susie's boyfriends go, there was
(46:46):
one his name was Dustin Recla, who would have had motive. Okay,
he seems to be the only one that might have
had a motive. Apparently he and a friend were facing
charges related eating to theft and vandalism and Susie was
going to testify against him in these charges. But both
(47:10):
of the men had alibis, so they were cleared. Okay, yeah,
so that's fine. But again, like it would have been motive.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Have they not had an alibi? Right?
Speaker 3 (47:20):
The only theory that really seems like it would have
any weight is that Ryl, Susie, and Stacy were victims
of a possible serial killer named Robert Cox.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Oh have you heard of him? Yes?
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Okay, so he had been. Cox had been convicted of
abducting and assaulting two women in California and then was
he served time was released released. When he was released,
he lived and worked in Springfield during the time of
the disappearances, at the same car a lot as Stacy's father,
(47:56):
all right, which is like the closest connection very But
in nineteen ninety seven, Cox was arrested and convicted for
kidnapping and robbery in Texas, as well as being a
suspect in a murder in Florida. Wow, the brother of
the woman murdered in Florida was actually the one who
tipped off police about Cox's possible involvement in this Springfield
(48:21):
three case. He kind of put the pieces together and
I was like, you might want to look at this guy.
So when he was questioned about this, he claimed his
albi was being at church with his girlfriend the morning
after the disappearances.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
I was just at church.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, why exactly? But he so they asked Obviously
they confirmed this with a girlfriend. She was like, yeah,
we were at church. However, the girlfriend later recanted this alibi,
saying that he had pressured her into lying. Cox also
claimed that he had been at his parents' house the
(48:58):
evening of the disappearhearrances, which is something they confirmed as well.
But at the same time, I'm like, they're they're talking
about these disappearances happening between like what did I say
two am and eight am, like.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Early early hour or something. That's a big gap. And
also like, how did you confirm it? Did you know
for sure that his war was there or did you
just talk to his parents who were.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Like, yes, he was, well the Oh how did they
confirmed the alibi? Yeah that's true, Yeah, true, that's true. Yeah,
because I'm thinking of the timeline too, which would make
sense because it literally was they were last seen at
this party at two right, and the next warning whoever
came Janelle who came to get them.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Was there about eight So, like, I mean, to me,
I think that's the most plausible.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
Yeah uh, this again from medium quote. During a nineteen
ninety six interview, Cox said to a reporter in prison
that he believed the three women were deceased and buried
in Springfield. He didn't, however, implicate himself in the crime.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
He just knows that.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
He just is, like, I have a feeling that's. Police
are also like, they're unsure if he actually may have
been involved or if he just wants to claim credit
for recognition.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
True, that's true.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
So in total, there has been around five thousand tips
regarding the disappearance, as as Susie Streeter, Stacey McCall, Sheryl Levitt. Sadly,
this case still remains cold. As far as I know,
it's still open. They were at least Susie and Cheryl
were pronounced dead in like ninety seven. Okay, that's the
(50:37):
only I only saw mention of that. I'm not sure
about Stacy, right, But it's been open, an open cold
case for third close to thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Wow, and they're still not sure what happened. That one
pisses me off.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
A reward fund of forty three thousand dollars has been
established for the location and prosecution of the persons responsible
for the abduct of the three women. If you have
any information, you can contact the Springfield Police Department at
four one seven eight six four one seven five one
or via email to Lieutenant Brian Welch at b Welch
at Springfield, m dot gov. You can also contact the
(51:16):
FBI ViCAP Division by calling eight hundred and six three
four four h nine seven or via email at ViCAP
at FBI dot gov. All this information will be in
our show notes.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
But yeah, that's that one, the spring Steel three. I know,
I think they got serial killer. Serial killer. Yeah, it's
a verb.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
It's a verb, now, I know. It seems again it's
like seems the most likely he was there. He I
don't know that he was convicted. I would have to
look at he was convicted in the one in Florida,
But like it's clear that he was traveling and he
was in the area at that time, and he had
other violent offenses.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Even if it wasn't him, Like the whole thing of
like the light being broken, and like even though it
might the blind might have been whatever. It kind of
seems like there was a break in because it doesn't
seem like they went anywhere because kind was still there.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Yeah, but you'd almost think, too, it's possible that it's
somebody they knew, because there wasn't any besides again, besides
the thing being broken too. There wasn't any sign of
a struggle. It didn't appear like somebody forced their way
into the house.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
There. Stuff was there.
Speaker 3 (52:18):
Like one of the things that Janice said, the mom
said was that she saw like her daughter's clothes from
the night before still folded like one of like the
couch or whatever. Yeah, So it's not like there was
some big fight or something. So that to me is like, hey,
(52:39):
they might have known this person, which if it's somebody
that worked with her dad, that's not that far outside
the realm of passib food, you know. So it's I mean,
it's hard to say because she it didn't there's not
even a theory to like where they would have been
taken or like which direction they went.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah that sucks. Yeah, Yeah, it's kind of a bummer
of an episode today.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Dang, Well, before before you go missing, Before you go missing,
That's what I was gonna say it that I thought
maybe not. But before you go missing, maybe check out
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Speaker 4 (53:17):
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(53:39):
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Speaker 3 (53:46):
All right, Rachel, that has been our episode for today.
A nice little short, bite, bite size episode.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Chop chap. I love that personally.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
I loved like by the time we get to this
point in the day, I'm like so tired for sure. Yeah,
we keep up the energy for you guys, but we
expend it all on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
So yeah, you're welcome. I hope you enjoy it. It
puts me out for a week.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Ah, do you have any final thoughts before we wrap up?
Speaker 2 (54:12):
You know this is a little unusual, but I have
this coping mechanism that I found from online. You know,
the little like mean voice in your head, like literally
this morning. We always record at the same time, but
I'm an anxious person. So I'm always like, I always
think it's an hour before I'm like, oh my god,
they're so mad at me because I'm not that which
really you would just call me and be like, hey, stupid,
did you forget what time it was? And then I
(54:33):
would come over. Yeah, but you know what I mean
that panic. They're all mad at you. Yeah, and they
hate you. Uh a TikTok said, if you just imagine
that voice as Trump, it completely loses its bite. I
don't respect him. Yeah, they all hate you. They wish
you were dead. They're gonna kick you off the podcast.
Oh my god, what do you know? Oh my god,
(54:55):
your pants? Who cares what you say? All right, and
you want to adopt that, it's been very good.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
For my On that note, our sound and editing is
by to Fullman. Our music is by Jason Zakshowski The Enigma.
This has been the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. We will
see you in two weeks. Goodbye along the Highway.
Speaker 4 (55:24):
I think it was as if the wave the people
washed open with town.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
We should we are all you're wearing some form, wearing
another
Hy upon their arrivals unspeakable. I'm not they it's you
(00:23):
gotta worry about.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Something.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at
least I felt that I could keep their skeletons.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm Rachel,
I'm VICKI Oh my god, Welcome back, or if you're new,
welcome in.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
If this is your first time listening, a special hello
to you. We are in back again. Yeah, I have
an exciting episode for you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Very excited. Get excited, Get excited. Pump it up, pump
it up up for murder in the full throws of summer. Ye,
throwing it back first summer. Excited me too.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This will probably be I probably will have just had
a birthday by the time this comes out.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Gemini season, Yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It's in like two weeks. So yeah, definitely, so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So that's fun. Yes, plan no birthday plans. No, but
she's gonna end up going to like eighty two events
because she's a Gemini. I know it's so true. Yeah,
we'll see. I don't I don't actually know what I'll
be down. She's allergic to idea.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I'll be happy if I get macaroni castlele and meant
chocolate cake from my mom, what the hell is macaroni
castle dude? It's a classic Midwest cast role. But it's
something that my mom makes that I just is like
my favorite meal. It's macaroni with ground beef and tomato
sauce and normally there's like corn and like mushrooms and
some onions and you put it into a baking dish
(01:56):
with breadcrumbs on top. Cover bird comes me big. It
can't beat, so goa Midwestern The cake. The cake is
where it's at I always ask for. It's a mint
chocolate cake, but it's a white cake and you use
creme dement in the batter and then it's a layer
of like fudge topping, and then you put a little
(02:18):
crem deament in the cool whip and it's a layer.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Of cool whip.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
So it's not like it's like a hard minty thing,
but it's really that makes me hard. That's my favorite. God,
it's my favorite cake.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It is so funny. That's my favorite cake is when
my mom used to make not not as fancy, but
it's like the the yellow cake. I really like the
yellow cake. And then she puts, uh, it's like two
circle cakes, and in the middle she puts like preserves,
like Lingenberry preserves and like the dark chocolate. Ganagh. Oh,
(02:51):
that sounds chocolate. It's like my favorite. Yeah, that does
sound really good.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
That sounds I've got bad to look for it too, hopefully. Anyway,
I guess we should probably head over to the newsroom.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I guess watching locals today, we had.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Fifty So this week our news comes from Harvard. We
are who know the school? Oh the school, sorry, Harvard
Medical School specifically. Yeah, fifty seven year old Cedric Lodge,
(03:30):
who was formerly the Harvard Medical School morgue manager. Oh
what a spooky job, pleaded guilty to interstate transport of
stolen remains and he's looking at ten years in prison currently.
What so there, I've been seeing increasing reports of this
and it's being talked about widely more more widely now.
(03:54):
But there are rings active in the United States of
people dealing with theft of body parts.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And oh my god, yeah, ew.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So this particular one, they were thefts from the the morgue.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
He's just slaying in people.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, they were from twenty eighteen through March at least
March twenty twenty, Both Cedric Ladge and his wife were
part of a nationwide network who bought, buying, and sell
human remains stolen from Harvard and a mortuary in Arkansas,
ew Dot.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I ask for what is it? Why are people buying these?
Is it like medical stuff? That's a lot of what
it is is like medical. They want it for like
testing and stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Maybe some of it's that, some is dissected dissections, some
things are you know.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And the thing is like, especially with a facility like Harvard,
because it is a medical school. Our bodies that are
donated to the school for education and research and things.
But once they're done with them, typically they are cremated
and then the ashes are returned to the family who.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Don't like Yeah, no, no, I'll take care of it
for sure. Just leave the body with me for sure. Cremated. Yes,
that's what I'm doing. I'm not selling it.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, yeah, you see it, says Denise Ladge, who is
the wife. Several other defendants have pleaded guilty to various
charges stemming from the scheme. Prosecutors have said she negotiated
online sales of several items, including two dozen hands, two
feet nine spy nine spines, portions of skulls, five dissected
human faces, and two dissected heads.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Ew Denise, that's gross.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, so what the fu? Yeah, but this is something,
like I said, this is something that increasingly I'm seeing
being reported, is these sort of like body part rings
that are being run through mortuaries or crematories or funeral
homes or like.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That's like the craziest thing. That's crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, because this is not the first story of this
I've heard. It's just surprising coming out of Harvard Medical School,
because that is a very prestigious Oh.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Like, Cedric, you're gross. You and Denise are sick. Yeah,
don't worry, he's guilty. I agree. We're just waiting for something. So,
oh my god, that's that.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
We're gonna move on to Netflix and Kill which this
week we are talking about Into the Fire, The Lost Daughter.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh uh huh? Which have you watched us yet? Or no? No,
I know what it is.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
So this it was really really interesting. It's a two
part series that came out in twenty twenty four. It's
by Ryan White, who also directed The Keepers. If you
remember The Keepers, one.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Of my favorites. Fantastic crazy good.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yes, And it is about this woman named Kathy Turcanian
who who was sort of I don't I mean, she's
sort of forced to give up her daughter for adoption
when she was young and later finds out that her
(07:13):
biological daughter that she had to give up has been missing,
went missing in nineteen eighty nine. That's crazy, and so
she sort of starts investigating to see if she can
find out what happened to her biological daughter under the
care of these adoptive parents.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Wow. She works with Carl.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Koppelman, who is sort of this websleuth skuy to look
into the Bowmans, who are Andrea's adoptive family, right, and there,
I mean, like Dennis Bowman and the father's been accused
of sexual abuse. There are, you know, things in the
(07:52):
past that are kind of like questionable. And then in
twenty nineteen, Dennis Bowman is actually arrested in connection with
a different cold case, and during that arrest he does
admit to killing Andrea not long after she had disappeared
officially and bearing the remains in their back of the
(08:16):
of the backyard of the house that they.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Were in at the time.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Oh no, So it's it's very I mean it follows
her she's sort of investigating this case, and oh how sad.
It is incredibly sad. But at the same time, it's
great that they were able to come to a conclusion
as to what actually happened to.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Her, anything like Behind the Creators of the Keepers. The
Keepers was yes, yeah, that's one of my all times.
So it is, it is, it is comprehensive.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yeah, so this is end because it's only two parts, right,
this is I definitely suggest it. It's very interesting, especially
because it is it's sort of also about this connection
that you have with your children, like your biological children,
and she, I believe was not She didn't necessarily want
to give up her daughter, but because of her circumstance,
(09:08):
was sort of in a position where she had to.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
So, and frankly, what can happen to people who are
given up for adoption, because obviously the home she was
placed in, although might have appeared fine, they.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Could end up they could, right exactly.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
So if you want to check that out, it is
called Into the Fire the Lost Daughter. I definitely would
suggest it. This that part of the show where we
say content may not be appropriate for all listeners. Actually
mine is like not too crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Mine too. There's definitely like you know, death and human
remains right right right?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, talk, Yeah, mine's not actually too crazy as far
as violence is concerned.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Mine too, sad Yeah, you know, So what are we
talking about today, Rachel? So, I thought this week I
would kind of cast a wide net and do one that.
Normally I don't really like these cases because I'm annoying
and I need to know the answer, right you like
a bit of a result. I do, otherwise I obsess
(10:10):
over it forever and ever and ever. But this I
just put as missing people. Okay, there are these people
we don't know. I don't know. Well, mine end up
being found, but not you know, in an exciting way. Okay, Okay,
in a sad way. Oh great, cool. I love that.
But it's more like what happened, yes, yeah to these people. Yeah.
(10:30):
So this one, I wonder if you've heard of this.
These are the deaths of Chris Krummers and Lussanne Froun. No,
I am not familiar, Okay. I almost wonder as we
go through it if you're gonna be like actually, because
this is one where like when you go to when
you go online and it's like pictures of grizzly crime
scenes twenty most you know what, yeah, the some of
(10:53):
these pictures are always in these Okay, because this is
there's like a collection of photographs that are really eerie
and weird. Yeah, okay, maybe yeah, maybe yeah, maybe I'm
wondering if you're going to be familiar. Okay. So Chris
Kremer's and Lysanne Froun were two Dutch students. Okay, they
(11:13):
were really good friends. They ended up living together at
some point. They were roommates. You would have loved Lissanne
because she was a volleyball player. It's a passionate volleyball player. Yeah,
that's yes. Chris had just gotten her degree in like
(11:34):
art education. She wanted to be an art teacher, and
Lissanne had a degree in applied psychology. So they were
both they both had these like really cool degrees. They
were both committed to helping people. They wanted to help children,
and after they graduated from college, they were like, you
know what, let's take like a little bit of a vacation,
(11:57):
a little bit of kind of an educational vacation in
let's go to nerds. Well exactly super nerds, I know,
like they seemed like such sweet girls. In these kinds
of cases, what's unfortunate is even if you're a victim,
the media is going to find like every skeleton in
our yea, which like if you really do bad things understandable.
(12:17):
But sometimes it's like, okay, so they had a lot
of boyfriends who cares. Yeah, really we're gonna victim blame.
But these girls really were like super super nice and sweet. Yeah,
super nice and sweet. Uh So they were like, let's
go to Panama. Okay, this will help us to learn
Spanish because again they were Dutch and there they wanted
(12:39):
to quote do something significant for the locals. Okay, so
they wanted to like create programs and help volunteer. It
was kind of a a very rural area of Panama,
so they were like, if we can do anything to help,
we would love to sure, which is so nice. So
they sweet sweet babies. They saved up for six months
(13:02):
together in their little apartment. Yeah, probably eating ramen noodles
the whole time. Yeah. So they arrived in Panama March
fifteenth of twenty fourteen. Okay, and at first the trip
was going super great. They're touring the country and then
there's like a kind of an informal program set up
there where students or travelers can volunteer to like stay
(13:26):
with a family. It's almost kind of like host family,
but yeah, quite that formal. Yeah yeah, yeah. But since
they were volunteering like through like an organization, they were
able to kind of set that up. So they toured
the country for two weeks having fun before arriving and
I apologize so bad. Bouchete Cheriqui. Yeah, hell yeah, Bouquete
(13:46):
Cheriqui in Panama, which again super rural. Okay. So they
went with the family they were going to do volunteering
with children. They hadn't quite started.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I would assume that these families have been like vetted.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Oh yeah completely okay.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It was like a nice family with kids, Okay, and
I think it always is, you know. Imagine like, hello,
I am a single man here to receive.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
These two who knows, but they seem like a sweet Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
So they're having fun. They were like out on the beach,
out having dinner, just having like a fun girls trip.
On April first, around eleven am, they decided to take
a hike. They weren't super experienced hikers, but this was
like right by a village, you know, they had hiking
(14:35):
trails and stuff. They were like, oh, I do think
I know this case. I do think I know this case. Okay,
I thought this was kind of cute. The family their
like host family, had a little dog and they were like,
we'll take the dog with us. We'll take your dog
for a walk and we'll be back in a little bit.
So we're just gonna go for a hike. So this
was They called them the Clouded Forests, which I think
(14:55):
is like so spuky on the l Pianista trail, which
was not not far, just like a normal trail that
people take. They also wrote on Facebook that they were like, Yep,
we're going to go take a hike. We're have fun.
And the day before I believe they had had lunch
with some they found other students who were Dutch, who
(15:19):
were two guys. So they went on like a cute
little double date lunch thing, and they had been talking
about like, we can't wait to go for this hike.
It's going to be so much fun, so fun. The
host family like so they all day they weren't really
expecting them. They were like, oh, they're having fun. They're
probably out with those boys or whatever. But then all
of a sudden, their dog came home by itself. Okay,
(15:40):
out with the girls Lessanne's parents, So she would text
them like constantly about what they were doing. Yeah, they
were like, we haven't heard from her in quite a while,
like hours and hours, like this is pretty weird. The
next morning they were supposed to, uh, they were going
to go on another hike, but with a guy, okay,
(16:00):
and they didn't. They didn't show up okay. By April sixth,
like just six days later, the parents arrived in Panama,
were like fuck no, yea full investigation, so full police cooperation, dogs, detectives.
They brought like detectives from the Netherlands with them. Oh
like oh fuck no, well it makes sense, makes sense, yep.
(16:24):
And they immediately offered a thirty thousand dollars reward information.
So right away police are getting to work. There is
sort of this undercurrent in the story which is a
little tricky because it's also like like are they being racist?
You know what I mean? Yeah, like these Panama police
are not doing a good job and they don't care
and they're not looking for these girls, which I don't know.
(16:48):
There's a lot on both sides of that, right, I
don't really know.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I don't know if I do think that the infrastructure
for that kind of investigation in Panama is not as
is well maintained true as it is in the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
That's true. The Netherlands is very like advanced.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
And it is partially just because of the money coming
in and out of the country and the resources available
to them.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I do think that is accurate. So it must have
seemed to them, yeah, like maybe almost like primitive. It's like,
it doesn't mean they're not doing anything.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right, and I'm sure like the Panamanian authorities were probably
a little protective, right, like people are coming to our
home term, but like.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Hey, let us do our investigation. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So
they started searching, they started talking to locals, and there
would really be no update until ten weeks later, on
the fourteenth of June. Okay, that's my birthday. I was
gonna say it, like it's your birthday, my birthday. Yeah, okay,
(17:53):
Well this is a sad part. Oh great, cool love
that a local woman who had been like in the
area turned in. She's like, I found something, and I
think it looks kind of weird was Lsan Frun's blue backpack.
She found it by like a river bank, which I
looked at the maps. She was from a village called
(18:16):
Alto Romero, which is not super far from there, but
she was like, I don't know what this backpack is,
and it ended up being Lassan's backpack, gotcha, which had
in it a little bit of cash, which was around
eighty dollars. Funnily enough, all of the like you know,
I watched a ton of documentaries and stuff about this,
and like read a bunch of articles. It all said
(18:37):
that it was eighty dollars, but one would be like
eighty three dollars, eighty five dollars, eighty, like how much money.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Was then it's around eighty, Like it doesn't but it
was just funny, Like a lot of things were really consistent,
but with this, I was like, how much money?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Tell me? Tell me? Yeah? Yeah, So had a little cash,
had fruons like in ssurance card, her camera, two bras,
both of their phones, like a water bottle, and two
pairs of sunglasses. Okay, so it's like, why are both
of their phones in this backpack? Super weird? Yeah, I mean, okay,
(19:14):
keep going, I know it's like kind of like okay, yeah,
the phone. So like immediately they took the phones in
and started like doing Netherland forensics on all their records,
and it showed that around six hours into their hike,
one of them on their phones had dialed like the
emergency number for Panama, which is one one two, okay,
(19:36):
and then they were also dialing nine to one one. Yeah,
there were like thirty something calls that were like emergency calls,
all in a short period of time, like between like
four thirty and five pm. They were just calling, calling, calling,
but because they were in the middle of the rainforest,
none of the calls connected. Sure, they were not able
(19:58):
to make any successful calls at all. None of the
calls went through, right, that's yeah, they so scary. So
that was the day they went missing, was April first.
By the fourth of April, according to phone records, Prun's
phone battery died. Her phone finally died after four days.
(20:18):
The phone was never used again because obviously they weren't
able to charge it. The other girl's phone wouldn't make
any more calls, but it would show that they turned
it on every so often to like look for reception.
That they were unsuccessful. And what's kind of weird is
between the fifth and eleventh of April that phone, Chris's
(20:39):
phone was turned on multiple times. But there's like a
weird thing in the phone records where they were like,
we can't quite tell if because like it would turn on,
but she had a passcode, so they were like, either
someone was entering the wrong passcode or they weren't entering
(20:59):
a p code and it would just turn off, Like
we really don't know. So there's a lot of suspicion.
You'll you'll see at the end of this. There are
kind of two ways that people think. And I mean,
I think they were kidnapped or like someone was trying
to hack into their phone. But I'm like, maybe she
was using it for light. She could have been using
it for light.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
If they are just turning it on to chuck to
see if they's signal you don't have to go past
the lack screen. Yeah, and exactly because opening your lack
screen takes up more battery power than just looking at
your home, you know what I mean, like oct Yeah,
because you can just look and see the bar to
see how much you have no bars. Yeah, And honestly,
(21:38):
I'm thinking part of the reason they may have left
the phones in the backpack.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
In my head, I'm thinking.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Okay, if they're dead, Like, if they're both dead, why
carry unnecessary items. That's totally true, you know, very because
at that point there, I'm sure they're like, we're lost
in the jungle forever. We're never going to find a
spot to charge these It's not like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right, yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah, that's like one
side of what people think. Yeah, I agree with you.
And finally, on the eleventh of April, the phone was
turned off for the last time. It was turned on
that morning briefly but again not past the lock screen,
and then it was never turned on again. Yeah, and
(22:18):
that was it. Then they found because it also in
the backpack was the camera, Lissett's camera. So they were like, oh,
let's see if they took any pictures, and pictures they did. Yes.
So luckily they were able to piece together from the
pictures like where exactly the girls had hiked, and it
(22:41):
turns out that they probably took a trail that was
by the Continental Divide because it has really great views.
They had a couple of pictures of the views. There's
like a really sad picture on the trail of like
the two of them like besties.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, before anything went horribly wrong.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Exactly, looked like they were having so much fun. Yeah,
so sad and then but that trail, I guess it's
like possible to wander off. Like it's a little confusing,
ok there, So they think that they probably wandered into
the wilderness because the rest of the pictures are in
thick jungle. They're not in the trail anymore on the
(23:20):
eighth of April, so they're looking through this camera. Ninety
flash photos were taken in like a short period of
time between like one and four pm because it was
or no am, I guess, because it was in complete darkness,
so they were obviously using it to see where they
(23:40):
were going. Sure the flash and a couple of the
pictures are like this is the thing. You'll be very
proud of me, because this is another one of those
cases where people are like, what if it was something supernatural? Weird.
There's a couple of the photos where like stuff looks
a little weird, but I'm like, it is the jungle.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, I understand the feeling of them being very eerie, right,
knowing what happens afterwards, that this is literally like the
last images these people are seeing and it is documented
because that is not usual, right, I understand the eerie
feeling from that, Like I definitely get that from these pictures.
I don't think it was anything like supernaturally.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Either, or I think there's no evidence of them. No. No,
Like even like before when I was getting everything ready
for this, I was like trying to get a website
that had a bunch of the pictures and I went
on Google Images and it was like, look at this
thing in the corner, a beastie of some sort of
like yeah, or it's an animal because they're in the rain,
(24:42):
or a.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Bug like a mosquito orb right, Like, oh my god,
the orbs. I'm sure people are, but I'm like, it's
literally dusty and rainy and mosquitoes and bugs.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And that's one thing you'd be very proud of me for.
I'm orbs ghost evidence at all.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I'm so proud of you something. Yes, I'm always so
proud of you.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yes, Oh my god, can you say that and pretend
you're my dad? Oh my god, I just to send
Daddy's proud of you. Now I'm turned on it so
uh so some of the photos, while not supernatural, are
(25:29):
are mysterious because it's like, were they using these photos
like for light or were they trying to document something
not something supernatural, but like people are like with somebody
chasing them, because there's a big theory that they were
they were murdered, that like somebody came upon them and
killed them. I don't think it's impossible. I think it's
a lot more likely that they just got lost because
(25:51):
it's the rainforest. I think they just got lost. But
there is a picture that's of the back of Chris
Kremmer's head, obviously taken by the other girl, and it's
hard to see because it is the flash, you know,
makes everything so overexposed, and she's a redhead as well.
But if you look at the picture, you can kind
of see where it looks like there might be blood
(26:13):
on the back of her head. Okay, so it's possible
that like maybe she fell down and they're trying to
be like, Okay, let's see how bad it is. Let's
take a picture so we can see, which makes sense.
One of the major theories of the case, and one
that I believe, is that one of them probably fell
down and got hurt. And then that's why it went
tits up so fast because they weren't able to find
(26:36):
their way back to the trail, right, you know, they
weren't able to figure it out. Yeah, no, I get you.
So once they found the backpack and all of the pictures,
they were like, well, let's go to that area and
try to figure it out. Let's try to see what
we can find. So that's near the Calubre River. Okay, okay,
let's figure that out. Right away. They found Chris's shorts
(26:58):
on top of a rock, which was pretty nearby to
where the backpack had been discovered. Okay. Two months later, unfortunately,
they were to find something a little worse because somebody
was like, oh, I found a boot, but the boots
still had this foot. It was a little skeletonized. But
(27:21):
then obviously they were like oh shit, they brought in everyone.
They also found a pelvis, so they were like, okay, yep,
these are human bones. So once they came in, they
found at least thirty three widely scattered bones. They were
able to DNA test and they were confirmed to belong
to both Kremers and froun oh Man, something that again
(27:43):
a lot of people kind of like cling to for
like a supernatural theory or the murder theory, which again
I don't think the murder theory is ridiculous. I just
think it's less likely is that Prun's bones because they
were found in kind of the same area. All of
her bones, A lot of them still had like tissue
and skin stuck to them. Sorry gross, but Kremer's bones
(28:07):
looked bleached, like they were like dry, yeh, which can
happen if you leave them out in the sun. That's
what I think. So I just kind of assumed they
were left somewhere else in an area with so much
animal activity. I feel like you can't really say what happens.
You can't be like, well, that means that she was
somewhere else, and all of this stuff stupid. In total,
(28:32):
only around five percent of Kremer's bones and ten percent
of fruits were found, but they were cohesively linked to
DNA or comprehensively not cohesively. Yeah, they were looking at
the bones to see because something that's like really unfortunate
in this case is that a lot of racism against
(28:55):
the people of Panama was like really rampant because they
were like, well, obviously they killed these girls, but there's
no evidence at all, and for what I think it
would have been really dumb to kill them, because you're
a really rural area where these two girls with obviously
wealthy parents are coming and they're attached to an organization,
so it's like they're gonna notice they're missing, and they're
(29:16):
going to go after you. In this small town, they're
going to figure out it's to you. So I don't
really think. And there's this whole thing of like there
was this awful thing about like, well there's native tribes
around there that practice cannibalism, which is unconfirmed, so it's like,
obviously they were eaten by these terrible people from Panama,
and it's like whatever.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, no, for me, this one has always I mean,
it's very tragic, but like I think it's far more
likely that they succumb to the wilderness. You're talking about
these pictures being taken and potentially somebody like following them
and trying to see them. I think it's far more
likely that they could have been being followed by an animal,
(29:54):
which if you're taking pictures at you know, two o'clock
in the morning and those are animals adapted to a
hunting at night, right.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Absolutely, they're in an unfamiliar environment. They're from the Netherlands.
They were both from like pretty like urban areas, so
I'm sure they saw these big old trees and were
like shit, yeah, so unfamiliar and in pitch dark, and
they're scared. Yeah, they don't speak the language, so even
if they come across people, they can't ask for help.
They're probably incredibly stressed. I definitely think that one of
(30:24):
them hurt themselves. I think so too, because I think
once you add injury, it's like, oh god, oh, what
do we do? So even if they were normally level
headed girls, they might have just wandered further and further
into the forest, right and panic. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And honestly, even the way that like their their items
were found and their remains were found, like it does
definitely just seem like they probably died somewhere out in
the woods and then were ravaged by animals.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
That's what I think too, especially because so little of
their bones were found. Yeah, you'd think if it were
a murderer, they'd find either their whole body or like
none of it, right, they would just like throw you know,
and it wouldn't necessarily be like fragmented either completely completely.
I agree with you. A forensic anthropologist because they were
looking at the bones to see if there were any
(31:11):
kind of like scratches or marks like from a knife
or something, said that the bones were completely whole, like
they were. There's no damage detected because of like there
wasn't a huge amount found. A lot of people say
this is inconclusive, but I think it's still something to
say that, like there's no because a lot of the
(31:32):
bones that they found were like spinal bones. If you're
getting stabbed, that's going to show, like Nixon, the bone
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Usually might I mean depending on the angle and stuff.
That's true, because if you're being stabbed from the front,
it's not. Depending on the knife that's being used, it's
not necessarily going to go.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Through to the spine. That's true. It might, but like, yeah,
it's any more likely and then not comprehensive. But the
fact that they didn't find any at all like animals, yeah,
I think so too. I think so too. I will
they have an open obviously the girls are deceased, but
they have an open investigation for if anybody knows something
(32:08):
or if anybody has seen something and I will link
it in the show notes. It's really sad because they
really were. They seemed like such charitable girls, super nice,
they were nice to all the locals. I just think
it's such a tragedy. It's sad. Yeah, I wish they
would have waited until the next day and gone with
the guide. But like, this is the path, do not
(32:30):
go off the path. But it can happen to anyone.
I feel, oh absolutely so that one's always kind of
like haunted me. Sad.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
So I decided this week to look at the case
of the Springfield three that I'm not super familiar with.
But it's kind of weird. It's very kind of weird.
So this case revolves around three women, nineteen year old
Susie Streeter, eighteen year old Stacy McCall, and forty seven
(33:11):
year old Cheryl Elizabeth from Springfield, Missouri.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Cheryl was working.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
As a cosmetologist at the local salon, and she was
actually Susie's mom. She was a single mother the two
and the two were reportedly pretty pretty close. It was
just the two of them in the house. Yeah, it
was nineteen ninety two and Susie.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Baby I was two years old then.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
So yeah, yeah, So it was ninety two and Susie
and Stacey had just graduated from Kickapoo High School on
June sixth, So it was a time of celebration. You know,
anybody who makes it that far is like, when you
graduate high school, it's like, oh my gosh, because it's
this opening of a new chapter. Right, It's sort of
(33:58):
your first steps into adulthood, don't know, right, I mean
that's what you think. Yeah, I know, and then you're
like me, you're thirty five and you're like, I'm still
not an adult, so that's cool, You're an adult kind
of kind of yeah. So so yeah, So they they
graduated high school, they were looking forward to moving out,
(34:18):
going to college beginning exactly, and of course they were
celebrating with their friends, so they were there was like
the day of graduation, tons of parties suff going on,
and lots of plans for the following day. Yes, so
on the evening of June sixth, they had intended they
had kind of like party hopped a little bit, and
(34:39):
they were at a party that they were they were
planning on staying at this friend's house, but the amount
of people staying there, it had gotten way too crowded,
so they were like, eh, instead, we're just gonna go
back to Susie's house.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We'll stay there with her and her mom.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, and then the next morning we'll meet up with
you guys. They had plans to go to a water
park with their friend, Janelle Kerbie, so they're like, okay, yeah,
we'll meet up and then tomorrow morning we'll meet up
and go to the water park. Right, So, around two am,
they go back to Susie's house that she shared with Cheryl, and,
(35:18):
like I said, as they said they're goodbyes. They told
Janelle that they would meet up with her at her
house in the morning. However, they didn't show up the
next morning, and you know, I will say, Janelle assumed
that they had accidentally slept in. You're literally coming off
of a day of partying. Like it's like, oh okay, yeah,
(35:38):
it would not be out of the realm for them
to sleep in. So she was like, well, we'll just
go get them, and so Janelle and her boyfriend went
over to Susie and Cheryl's house to pick up Susie
and Stacy.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Oh no.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
When they got there. First of all, they noticed it
wasn't open, but they noticed that the front door was unlocked, okay,
when they got there, and all of the cars were
still outside, but it didn't from the outside appear like
anybody was home, right. The only thing, and they Janelle
and her boyfriend told us to police later, the only
(36:12):
thing that was kind of off was that the porch
light was smashed. And it sounds to me that it
was like the housing was smashed, but the actual light bulb.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Wasn't broken, okay, and so just weird.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
In the interest of safety, they swept it up, I mean,
I mean evidence, but but they didn't know that a right,
So yeah, they had swept it up. And then they
did let themselves into the house because again, all the
cars are here, it looks like people are home. They
when they went in, they noticed that the family dog
was still there and that it seemed very agitated, like
(36:49):
just it was it sounded like it was a little dog,
So it was just kind of like this agitated dog.
While they were there, the phone rings and Janelle answers
it and on the other end is a male making
like sexual innuendos and noises. So she hangs up and
this person calls back again, which was like kind of weird.
(37:10):
So they were like, well, maybe something's a little off,
but they decided to leave. A few hours later, Stacy's mother, Janice,
went to Cheryl's home because she also hadn't heard from
her daughter at that point, and when she arrived, she
noticed that all of their belongings and bags and stuff
were in the still in the living room, but again
like it didn't appear.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
That anybody was home.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
So the other one of the other things, Cheryl's purse
was on the floor. It had a cash deposit of
eight hundred dollars from work. From Workantha salon okay, she
hadn't taken yet. She also noticed that there were recently
used makeup wipes along with keys and jewelry, indicating that
they had actually come home and like changed taken off
(37:54):
their make a right, you know, like got ready for
bud whatever. Well that's a good observation by her. Yeah,
that's what I was thinking too, Yes, Detective. The other
thing that I found interesting, and again it's like if
you know your friends fall enough, these are notice right,
there were cigarettes in the house next to an unfinished
(38:14):
coke can of coke, which was kind of unusual because
Cheryl had been described as a chainsmoker, so like she
wouldn't go anywhere without taking her cigarettes, especially like leaving
the house of course, I mean behind. So she was
like it was like obviously she did. Yeah, So she
was like, this is there's something going on here.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
So we're still being there and everything too.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
With the money in it, right, like nothing taking my
eight hundred dollars with me didn't seem like anything was
taken from the house, didn't.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, So it was very strange. So she decided to
call police. So she was there sort of waiting for
them to arrive. She's kind of looking around to see
what she can see. She noticed that there were messages
on the answering machine, so she decided to listen to
them to see if they were any clues. Yeah, kind
(39:04):
of like, yeah, so this is from from medium, she said.
Quote there was a strange message that immediately alarmed her,
but for some reason it was erased.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Later on, police would say they thought the message might
be included to the disappearances, but later said they didn't
believe the prank calls Kirby had answered were related.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
End quote. That's weird.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Janelle would also say later that although the calls were disturbing,
she remembers Susie telling her that one that pretty much
since she moved in with her mom in that house,
they had been getting prank phone calls.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
From somebody since she had been there.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
So it sounds like maybe it was like that's a
little another student or like probably a neighbor boy, right right,
just being weird. Yeah, so it did not seem that
they were as concerned about these pranks.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I'm concerned about it, yea, let me hear you.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
The other thing I want to point out, because I
remember seeing this pointed out, is that in the nineties,
with answering machines, a lot of times to save tape,
once you listened to a message, it automatically erases it
on machines. So like by doing that in erasing the message,
which she might not have known, that might not have
been super common at that point, but it existed.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Like, yeah, so that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
It would take a full day for police to arrive
at the house to start their investigation, after multiple concerned
friends family members had gone over to look for them,
and like at those high school parties getting drunk, yeah,
maybe probably, but by that time again, like people had
come over and checked on them, like multiple people. Police
(40:45):
have estimated between ten to twenty people had entered the house, including,
like I said, various friends and family who were worried
completely corrupting the scene. So if there was any evidence,
it's fucked now, Like that sucks. Yeah, but it's their
own fault because they had such a delayed response, right.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
It should have been taped off already.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Yeah yeah, yeah, even if you couldn't get like investigating
officers there right away, like, yeah, they did not do well.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Shot is great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
When they did finally arrive and begin their investigation, they
found no force entry and no sign of struggle other
than the busted porch light. They also noticed a bent
window blind in the window above Cheryl's bed. I'm gonna
be honest with you, though, I don't really find that
that unusual. Those blind suck, no, And you know what
I'm talking about. It's like the metal ones. I have
(41:36):
them in my apartment, Like when I moved in, they
were some of them were bent already, right, you know
that to me, and it takes like zero.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Ft like that thing. Yeah, completely, I agree.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
So that to me is not as unusual to be like, oh,
they came in through this window.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I don't know about that. I agree.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Police estimated the trio had disappeared between the hours of
two am to eight am. Cheryl had scheduled appointments and
like work clients and stuff in the days following their disappearance,
indicating it wasn't likely that she just laughed ran away.
Both Stacy and Susie also were scheduled to work later
in the week, but again like, no, but they did
(42:16):
not show up for these shifts.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, obviously.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
There was an immediate search effort by Janice, Stacy's mom,
who began canvassing the neighborhood and putting up missing persons fires.
The FBI also got involved in the search effort a
few days after the disappearances, largely in part due to
the strangeness, like the circumstances of it, and the fact
that it was multiple people, yeah, that were missing. So
(42:43):
they came in to help, and they aid it in
searches of surrounding wooded areas. At this point, honestly, because
this is like a few days afterwards, they're looking for bodies. Yeah,
they're looking for corpses at this point. But they did
not find anything. She Their initial investigation focused on Bart Streeter,
who was the strange brother of brother and son of
(43:08):
Susie and Cheryl. Okay, it was, yeah, Cheryl's son. I've
only seen him really described as having problems, oh dear,
which could mean a number of things. Could mean dragon, alcohol,
could mean mental scambling, addiction, maybe he is violent, like
it could mean a lot of things. But they kind
(43:29):
of had severed their relationship with him because of that
whatever it was, and police did look into him. That
was kind of their first gut feeling. But he was
cleared as a suspect after they confirmed his alibi and
he passed polygraph.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Okay, although he sounds suspicious right right.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Although they had some initial thoughts about like transience possible
transience hey in the area, and some of Susie's boyfriends
not being the greatest people, nothing really pans out in
the beginning. It wasn't until Yeah, it wasn't until the
story of the Springfield three was featured on a July
(44:15):
nineteen ninety two episode of America's Most Wanted. This was
about a month after the disappearances. Yeah, there were twenty
nine calls within the first week after airing Wow. Five
months later after the episode air it aired in December
nineteen ninety two, a man called their hotline to give
(44:36):
a tip about their disappearances, saying he had intimate knowledge
of what happened, but was accidentally disconnected when the switchboard
operator was attempting to connect him to the Springfield authorities. No,
they did try this public appeal, like if you were
this person that called in, please call us back, Like
(44:56):
we're waiting for you to call us back. But they
never heard from this mystery person.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Oh that's stressed, and I mean it could have been nothing, right,
but it could have been something.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, you never know.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
There's also claim from this one's kind of wild. There's
a claim from a local reporter in two thousand and
seven that they may have been buried under the parking
garage of Cox Hospital.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
The reporter even got a specialist with ground penetrating radar
and found three abnormalities in the ground. And they described
them as like two parallel and one horizontal. Okay, like
two parallel, vertical and one horizontal they found under this
parking structure. However, that's not enough, right, that is not enough.
(45:47):
There's not Yeah, there's not really. At least it sounds
like from the police police's point of view, evidence that
anybody who worked on that site or whatever like would
have put some thing. I don't know, certainly not enough
solid proof to deal with the cost associated offending a
parking structure. Yeah, because they had been there for a
(46:11):
number of years, and then you literally have to take
down like the whole parking structure to get underneath it.
So they did not investigate this any further, right, because
it just didn't seem moreorth it to them.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
It's worth it to me now.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Obviously, when you get a missing person's case like this
that goes on for a long time, it's often riddled
with theories of all shapes and sizes. This is no exception.
We talked earlier about the possible transience and sort of
the brother connection, both of which were very loosely connected
and unsubstantiated. As far as Susie's boyfriends go, there was
(46:46):
one his name was Dustin Recla, who would have had motive. Okay,
he seems to be the only one that might have
had a motive. Apparently he and a friend were facing
charges related eating to theft and vandalism and Susie was
going to testify against him in these charges. But both
(47:10):
of the men had alibis, so they were cleared. Okay, yeah,
so that's fine. But again, like it would have been motive.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Have they not had an alibi? Right?
Speaker 3 (47:20):
The only theory that really seems like it would have
any weight is that Ryl, Susie, and Stacy were victims
of a possible serial killer named Robert Cox.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Oh have you heard of him? Yes?
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Okay, so he had been. Cox had been convicted of
abducting and assaulting two women in California and then was
he served time was released released. When he was released,
he lived and worked in Springfield during the time of
the disappearances, at the same car a lot as Stacy's father,
(47:56):
all right, which is like the closest connection very But
in nineteen ninety seven, Cox was arrested and convicted for
kidnapping and robbery in Texas, as well as being a
suspect in a murder in Florida. Wow, the brother of
the woman murdered in Florida was actually the one who
tipped off police about Cox's possible involvement in this Springfield
(48:21):
three case. He kind of put the pieces together and
I was like, you might want to look at this guy.
So when he was questioned about this, he claimed his
albi was being at church with his girlfriend the morning
after the disappearances.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
I was just at church.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, why exactly? But he so they asked Obviously
they confirmed this with a girlfriend. She was like, yeah,
we were at church. However, the girlfriend later recanted this alibi,
saying that he had pressured her into lying. Cox also
claimed that he had been at his parents' house the
(48:58):
evening of the disappearhearrances, which is something they confirmed as well.
But at the same time, I'm like, they're they're talking
about these disappearances happening between like what did I say
two am and eight am, like.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Early early hour or something. That's a big gap. And
also like, how did you confirm it? Did you know
for sure that his war was there or did you
just talk to his parents who were.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Like, yes, he was, well the Oh how did they
confirmed the alibi? Yeah that's true, Yeah, true, that's true. Yeah,
because I'm thinking of the timeline too, which would make
sense because it literally was they were last seen at
this party at two right, and the next warning whoever
came Janelle who came to get them.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Was there about eight So, like, I mean, to me,
I think that's the most plausible.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
Yeah uh, this again from medium quote. During a nineteen
ninety six interview, Cox said to a reporter in prison
that he believed the three women were deceased and buried
in Springfield. He didn't, however, implicate himself in the crime.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
He just knows that.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
He just is, like, I have a feeling that's. Police
are also like, they're unsure if he actually may have
been involved or if he just wants to claim credit
for recognition.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
True, that's true.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
So in total, there has been around five thousand tips
regarding the disappearance, as as Susie Streeter, Stacey McCall, Sheryl Levitt. Sadly,
this case still remains cold. As far as I know,
it's still open. They were at least Susie and Cheryl
were pronounced dead in like ninety seven. Okay, that's the
(50:37):
only I only saw mention of that. I'm not sure
about Stacy, right, But it's been open, an open cold
case for third close to thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Wow, and they're still not sure what happened. That one
pisses me off.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
A reward fund of forty three thousand dollars has been
established for the location and prosecution of the persons responsible
for the abduct of the three women. If you have
any information, you can contact the Springfield Police Department at
four one seven eight six four one seven five one
or via email to Lieutenant Brian Welch at b Welch
at Springfield, m dot gov. You can also contact the
(51:16):
FBI ViCAP Division by calling eight hundred and six three
four four h nine seven or via email at ViCAP
at FBI dot gov. All this information will be in
our show notes.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
But yeah, that's that one, the spring Steel three. I know,
I think they got serial killer. Serial killer. Yeah, it's
a verb.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
It's a verb, now, I know. It seems again it's
like seems the most likely he was there. He I
don't know that he was convicted. I would have to
look at he was convicted in the one in Florida,
But like it's clear that he was traveling and he
was in the area at that time, and he had
other violent offenses.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Even if it wasn't him, Like the whole thing of
like the light being broken, and like even though it
might the blind might have been whatever. It kind of
seems like there was a break in because it doesn't
seem like they went anywhere because kind was still there.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Yeah, but you'd almost think, too, it's possible that it's
somebody they knew, because there wasn't any besides again, besides
the thing being broken too. There wasn't any sign of
a struggle. It didn't appear like somebody forced their way
into the house.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
There. Stuff was there.
Speaker 3 (52:18):
Like one of the things that Janice said, the mom
said was that she saw like her daughter's clothes from
the night before still folded like one of like the
couch or whatever. Yeah, So it's not like there was
some big fight or something. So that to me is like, hey,
(52:39):
they might have known this person, which if it's somebody
that worked with her dad, that's not that far outside
the realm of passib food, you know. So it's I mean,
it's hard to say because she it didn't there's not
even a theory to like where they would have been
taken or like which direction they went.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah that sucks. Yeah, Yeah, it's kind of a bummer
of an episode today.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Dang, Well, before before you go missing, Before you go missing,
That's what I was gonna say it that I thought
maybe not. But before you go missing, maybe check out
this podcast.
Speaker 4 (53:17):
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head out on an interstellar repair mission, travel back in
time to change the future, Explore inside someone or something else.
Meet dragons, werewolves, birds, bears, aliens, merman, and a man
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(53:39):
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Speaker 3 (53:46):
All right, Rachel, that has been our episode for today.
A nice little short, bite, bite size episode.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Chop chap. I love that personally.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
I loved like by the time we get to this
point in the day, I'm like so tired for sure. Yeah,
we keep up the energy for you guys, but we
expend it all on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
So yeah, you're welcome. I hope you enjoy it. It
puts me out for a week.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Ah, do you have any final thoughts before we wrap up?
Speaker 2 (54:12):
You know this is a little unusual, but I have
this coping mechanism that I found from online. You know,
the little like mean voice in your head, like literally
this morning. We always record at the same time, but
I'm an anxious person. So I'm always like, I always
think it's an hour before I'm like, oh my god,
they're so mad at me because I'm not that which
really you would just call me and be like, hey, stupid,
did you forget what time it was? And then I
(54:33):
would come over. Yeah, but you know what I mean
that panic. They're all mad at you. Yeah, and they
hate you. Uh a TikTok said, if you just imagine
that voice as Trump, it completely loses its bite. I
don't respect him. Yeah, they all hate you. They wish
you were dead. They're gonna kick you off the podcast.
Oh my god, what do you know? Oh my god,
(54:55):
your pants? Who cares what you say? All right, and
you want to adopt that, it's been very good.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
For my On that note, our sound and editing is
by to Fullman. Our music is by Jason Zakshowski The Enigma.
This has been the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. We will
see you in two weeks. Goodbye along the Highway.
Speaker 4 (55:24):
I think it was as if the wave the people
washed open with town.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
We should we are all you're wearing some form, wearing
another
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