Episode 211 - I'm Getting an Accountant

The dark web isn't just for buying dubious socks. This week, we dive into the cases where the internet wasn't just a search tool—it was the weapon, the hunting ground, and sometimes, the motive. Screens turn deadly.

You can check out the Vocal Fries Podcast here!

Research links below!

The Australian Women's Weekly - "My little girl was killed by an internet predator"
ABC News - "Man found guilty of murdering Carly Ryan"
ABC News - "Father, son 'made up false IDs to kill teenager'"
The Carly Ryan Foundation
The Advertiser - "SA Parliament introduces new laws targeting predators who lie about their age online to children"
ABC News - "Ryan's convicted killer launches appeal"
SBS - "How a mother turned her grief at her daughter's murder into a cyber safety crusade"
All About Cookies - "Catfish Capitals: These Are the Places You're Most Likely To Fall Victimto a Catfishing Scam"

abc News - "Lottery winner's convicted killer speaks out from behind bars"
People - "Lottery Winner Trusted Her to Write a Book About Him. Instead, She Killed Him and Took the Money"
WUSF NPR - "Abraham Shakespeare"
Oxygen - "A Multi-Million Dollar Mystery: Was A Lottery Winner's Sudden Wealth Motive for Murder?"
abc News - "How amateur web sleuths helped solve the case of missing lottery winner Abraham Shakespeare"
NBC News - "Fla. lottery winner led problem-filled life"

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, why they discovered upon their arrivals unspeakable. I'm not
doing they did want bother.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
It's the living.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
You gotta worry about.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Something. If I couldn't keep them there with me whole,
at least I felt that I could keep their skeletons.
Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm
VICKI I'm Rachel. We're back again.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Hi everyone, Hello the Cold Winds of Fall.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
You guys don't know this, but we we took a
month off. We had come back. We had some extra
episodes in the tank that you guys heard last month.
So yeah, there was no break for you. But you
we're listening to them talk. No, you weren't related to you.
We took note of what the universe is trying to
tell us to not record last month, ycause literally I
got a decently major head wound that after falling in

(01:07):
my kitchen and hand to get six stitches, followed up
by getting sick immediately afterwards, and then the week after
our it guy AJ got COVID and we were like,
you know, it's just not the universe is telling us something.
So we had some extra episodes to give you guys,
which is great because you didn't miss out on anything.

(01:28):
But honestly, the break was really nice. Yeah, it's nice
to clear your head. Yeah, and we will have another
one coming up. We'll talk about that in a future episode.
But yeah, it was what a month last month?

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Seriously, it was crazy. Yeah, getting a random text of
you with your giant head hand, I was like, ah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Know, I was just taking I was sending like out
a picture of just like my forehead with stitches in it,
and like, so I did this and everyone's like, oh
my god, are you dead. It's such a crazy way
of notes and but trying your own rug that you
I know, I just crocheted this lovely rug that was
in front of my dishwasher for less than twenty four

(02:09):
hours before I slipped on it, nailing my head on
the counter. Is it covered in blood? No not, no
it's not. There was more blood on like the floor,
which is vinyl. So yeah, that came up easy. But yeah,
no it was I'm fine, everything is fine, she's fine.
It was not my proudest moment, but you know, these
things happen. I was due for like some massive accident

(02:32):
because one has not happened in a while, so.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I do think the universe was like it's time to rest. No, No,
you don't understand, it's.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
No like rest rest. Yeah, I was home for like
five days after that was great. Yeah, I didn't have
to go to the office like hung around for a while.
But I'm also like, I have paid up my karma
for the rest of the year out. Yes, you have
with all of that back to back to back to back.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
So that is the update with.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Uszy can't take her. I know, I know, We've got
a great episode for you. If this is your first
time listening, a special hello to you. We are going
to head over to the newsroom.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Let's go there way watching news Knows Today we had
fifty free.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
S. News this week comes from KTLA five, which is
an LA based newspaper. Did you know that California is
home to a cereal butt sniffer?

Speaker 1 (03:36):
What? Hello?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Sometimes when I start a sentence, I can tell you
do not know where that sentence is going.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Is that what that's on Californication is about?

Speaker 2 (03:46):
No? No, okay, So there is this man from southern California,
Calise Karen Crowder, thirty eight years old, who has a
history of arrests for sniff women's butts in public. Yeah,
he was just recently arrested again. He is a registered

(04:07):
sex fender. Oh my god, there was. He was just
arrested in mid August for a butt sniffing incident inside
an unspecified store in Burbank. That arrest came roughly a
month after he was taken into custody for a similar
fence in Burbank's Empire Center shopping center. That incident happened

(04:29):
in July. They had restored they had responded to a
Nordstrom Rack after they got reports of a suspicious man
loitering in the women's department, and by the time they
got there, he had left, but they located him and
he was arrested at a Walmart later. There is footage
that was posted to TikTok of him following this woman

(04:51):
inside or excuse me, there's surveillance footage that shows him
inside following this female shopper Nordstorm Rack and watching behind
her end quote, engaging in lude behavior by inappropriately sniffing
her buttocks ew according to Burbank police. Back in August
twenty twenty three, there was a video of him posted

(05:11):
on TikTok by a woman named michaela whitter that shows
him behind her, like crouching in a Barnes and Noble
pretending to look at books and like, then, excuse me,
where's your button? And then she confronted him and he
was like, I'm sorry, I was tying my shoes. Yeah right, yeah,
yeah right, sir. But he also got arrested for that.
Good that did lead to one of his to one

(05:33):
of the arrests. So yeah, so, sir, he's had incidents.
He's on parole for a series of similar incidents in
Burbank and Glendale that dated all the way back to
twenty twenty one. You know what, sir, So four clariers
but sniffing.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
But for this latest incidence, the two latest incidents, he
was ordered to serve one hundred and thirty five days
in Los Angeles County jail when he admitted to violating
his parole. She's as christ, so be careful because men
be out there trying to sniff your butt.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
I have never even considered that that could be happening.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
It's very animalistic.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, Like, I just don't involve other people in it,
like you can absolutely. I'm sure find ladies who would
be down for that that's the thing, like not real women.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
If you've got a thing that you're into sexually, that
there is like eight there is one thousand percent of community.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Absolutely, it's beautiful about the internet. Yeah, yeah, you could
find people and he could even be like, hey, why
don't you go in Barnes and Noble and pretend I
don't know you?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
You know, and I ever suspect that is happening. I'm
gonna rip a massive party. They might be into that bust. Yeah,
like yum, oh, excuse me. Do you have a paper towel?

Speaker 3 (06:54):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (06:55):
I need it to tie my shoe. Yeah, all right,
we are gonna move on to Netflix and Kill, which
this week is an HBO and Kill. We're talking about
the yogurt shop murders.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Brand new came out in August or very early August.
It is a documentary about the nineteen ninety one Austin
yogurt chop killings that talks to family members of the
victims as well as other people who are investigating the crime.
A lot of the police officers and things. What a case,

(07:29):
Oh my god, what a case? Because are you familiar
with this case at all? Okay, have you seen the documentary.
I have not, but I know about the case. Okay,
so there is a lot of stuff about this that
is not great. Yeah, and it's really interesting because they
utilize this footage of one of the guys that was

(07:54):
arrested who I forget the name of.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
That, but.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
It was one of the guys that was arrested who
ends up getting his conviction overturned. And when he came out,
this woman was decided to make a documentary about him
and about the case, and it was never finished. She
never finished it, and so when they came back to
do this documentary, then she was involved and they utilized

(08:27):
some of the footage.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
From that she got to finish her project.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Kind of yeah, yeah, and she very much was like
I at a certain point, like realized this was too
big of a story me to tell, like it just
wasn't equipped to tell it. So yeah, So you're probably
wondering what we're talking about. So yeah, there are let
me see, do they have a description. Let's see. In

(08:52):
nineteen ninety one, a yogurt shop was set on fire, essentially,
and when they arrived, they discover discovered four bodies of
teenage girls. Thirteen year old Amy Air's seventeen year old
Eliza Thomas, seventeen year old Jennifer Harbison, and Jennifer's fifteen

(09:14):
year old sister, Sarah. Jennifer Eliza worked at the shop
and the other two had been visiting, and once they closed,
they say that a man or multiple people came in
to rob the yogurt shop and it was essentially a
robbery gone wrong. They decided to light the place on
fire in order to cover their tracks when they arrived. Obviously,

(09:39):
the fire department came put out. The fire covered everything
in water, which is not the most helpful when it
comes to investigating crimes the way all that evidence. Yes,
there was a lot of evidence that was lost because
of that, which I'm not blaming anybody for that, because
that's what you should.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
You've got to put out the they would not have.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
I don't believe that they knew there were bodies in
the yogurt chop until after the fire had been put out,
and I'm sure they didn't. Yeah, So this basically follows
all of the investigative efforts. What happened, what is still happening.
There was a lot of very questionable police work in
this one. I'm shocked. You see my shocked. I know, right,

(10:23):
it's very shocked, especially involving coerced confessions things like they
This is at a time during the height of Satanic panics,
so there was this like focused on these the weirdos,
like the Satany kids. There was this like group of
near do wells that hung out in this Yeah, that

(10:46):
hung out in this I don't know what you call it.
It's like that. I always think of the thing in
Greece where they do the drag race. It's like the
water thing. Yeah, there's one of those that ran behind
the yogurt chop. I can make yes, Yeah, there's one
of those that ran behind the yogurt shop and like

(11:06):
sort of the like gothy kids out.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
There and drink.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
So there was like this focus on them. There's these
people coming forward talking about this gun that's sort of
been like, well it's my gun, but so and.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
So borrowed it and these people.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, yeah, there is a lot to this that I'm
not I'm not going to even go into right now.
Definitely go and watch it, but it is like twisting
and turning, and you know, you have members of the
family that believe the original guys that they had arrested
are guilty, although there everything's been overturned because of such

(11:41):
shoddy fucking police work, and you know, it's just it's
a very sad story. Yeah, but it just.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Was it be solved to be honest.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, that's a tricky one. Yeah, that is that is
a tricky one. Springsteen, Robert Springsteen, I think that's his name,
was one of the guys who was arrested, and that's
who the woman who was originally doing the documentary was
following when he got out of prison.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Oh, that's right. Definitely check it out. I really liked it.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
It's a mini series. It's only three episodes, so I'm sorry,
it's four episodes. Still nice, relatively short. Yeah, very interesting.
Oh good, And I do kind of love this interspersement
of like the old footage from interviewing Springsteen, oh with
all of the new interviews, because she also cool had
interviews from like memory experts, and they talk a lot

(12:32):
about these coerced and false confessions because people, I mean,
there's still this idea of like, how could you possibly
confess to something that you didn't actually do the right
And there's a lot of like psychology to it where
it's like if they say it enough times, it's like, Okay,
maybe I did do this, or like if I tell
them this, you know, surely they're going to find out
that I'm lying, and right where it doesn't happen. A

(12:56):
lot that goes into it. But definitely check this out.
It's called the Murders on hbo X. This is that
part of the show where we say content may not
be appropriate for all listeners. I will definitely be talking
about some murder and some like sexual abuse. If any
of that is not your cup of tea, that's okay,

(13:19):
maybe join us on the next one.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
We'll see you next time.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
We love you. But just as you said the interview,
the internet was a beautiful place to find people with
the same case as you.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
It is also a terrifying wild West sniffer dot com.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Bus sniffer dot com. So today I wanted to talk
about some people who use the Internet ultimately to commit
their crimes. Interesting because the internet's a scary place. We
grew up during the advent of the Internet. I remember

(13:53):
growing up with an ms dous machine home that was
not connected to anything. That's kind of what I grew
up with. And you know, we got the dial up modems,
AOL and aim al and semesters became a very big thing,
an MSN messenger that was like an identity thing, and.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
I'm like, crumbling to dust, I'm so old.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Chat rooms yeah who chat rooms asl you know, was
like a breeding ground for fucking predators. We didn't know
it at the time, Like we were very naive about
how to use the Internet. We were kids, yeah, and
now we are probably like millennials are probably the masters
at using the air. I say that only because we
learned from our mistakes. Yep.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
We don't have that naivete anymore.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Nos gen z ors do stuff And I'm like, all right, right, right,
be careful. Yeah, we made enough mistakes that we were like, okay,
we need to stop fucking around with this getting groomed
one kick at like something, you know. So I wanted
to highlight a couple of these cases to bring focus back,
especially as the Internet becomes more and more toxic every day.

(14:59):
I say, as an avid Internet user, like chronically online,
chronically online for sure, for sure. So I actually wanted
to start off with a little bit of history. Oh
that I don't know if you are aware of it all,
but probably not in the history of the world. Catfishing
as it relates to the Internet is actually a relatively
new phenomenon. The Internet itself was established in Earnest in

(15:23):
nineteen eighty three. Although the practice of like pretending to
be somebody that you're not is not new, right, Like
people right right right place personal ads in newspapers and stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
I'm tall and strong and muscly. Yeah, I don't have a.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
My family is really wealthy, and I'm just looking for
a young woman to inherit all of my riches, right,
and then they like show up and get murdered.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
I mean even I think it was like Anne of
Cleaves with like Henry the Eighth She showed up from
Germany to like be his wife, and as soon as
he saw her, he was like, she does not look
like her portrait. She was catfishing me, but in reality
he was a disgusting old man, yes, and she was
like ew, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
But so all of that, like, yeah, pretending to be
somebody you're not for some kind of personal gain is
not a new phenomenon as all of us time, But
the term catfishing or being catfished is not that's actually
relatively new.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Is it from the documentary? Well, let's talk about that, okay.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
So the term catfishing or being catfished was popularized by
somebody a lot of our fellow millennials will probably know.
His name's Nev Shulman. Nev Shulman. Yep, my bad, I
love him. Neve, a victim of catfishing himself, made a
film in twenty ten called Catfish, which involved his brother

(16:43):
filming his online romantic relationship with a woman who was
not who who she said she was. In the film, Angela,
who had been portraying herself to Neve as megan on Facebook.
Angela's husband talks about the story about live cod being

(17:04):
shipped from Asia to North America and because they spend
so much time in the tanks, they become mushy by
the time that they arrived. And so fishermen discovered that
you if you put a catfish in the tank with
the cod, what just one catfish in the tank with
the cod. It kept them active and therefore kept the

(17:26):
meat good. No way, and so vince her her husband.
Angela's husband describes Angela as a catfish that keeps the
lives of those around her interesting and thus the world
adopted was from Yeah, so it became the title of
this documentary called catfish. But then catfishing was kind of

(17:49):
adopted as the term for like pretending to be something
you're not.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
It's like saying it, googled it. It's like everyone knows
what that means, right totally.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
And it did so. Like I said, the documentary Catfish
came out in twenty ten, it wasn't really until twenty
thirteen that like the term really really took off because
of the Notre Dame football player named Mantiteo.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Have you ever heard that story?

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yes, that'shit is crazy, that's wild. Yeah, And if you
haven't heard, check out Netflix's Untold The Girlfriend Who Didn't Exist.
It's about the Mantiiteo story. We I don't think that
we've we might have touched on it on the podcast,
but I haven't really talked about it because there weren't
really crimes that were committed. He just fucking lied about

(18:40):
a lot of shit, kind of unnoingly on some of it.
That's a weird. But like, yeah, the Mantiiteo thing was
really when like catfishing being catfish, that term sort of skyrocketing. Yeah,
Now outside of that. This is according to All about Cookies,
which is a great website that I found. It's called

(19:01):
it teaches about like identity theft and online scams. It
also has well, let's just talking about like internet.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Cookies whatever, that's boring. Yeah, that's why they call her.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
So it talks about identity theft and online scams, but
it also has like ways to get around paywalls and
ad blockers and thinking that very very definitely.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Check it out. I was like, oh, this is pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
I like that in our show notes. Yes, definitely, I definitely. So.
According to All about Cookies, quote, in twenty twenty two,
catfishing scams cost an average of one hundred and thirty
two point five million per quarter. What so four times
a year in the US. Actually Alaska has the highest

(19:46):
number of catfish victims per capita. What while Louisiana has
the lowest.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
That's good. That's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah. Do you are you curious about like the top ten?
I can tell you the top ten? Yes, tell me, okay,
So the top ten, in order from one to ten
is Alaska, Nevada, Wyoming, Arizona, Washington, d C Oregon, Washington,
State of Washington, New Mexico, Florida, and Utah.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
So except for a couple of those places, they all
seem to be pretty sparsely populated. Yeah, when you said
Louisiana was the least, I'm like, well, it's so dense there.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I would say sparsely populated. But also when you're talking
about states like Arizona, Florida, I would say even New Mexico,
these are like places where people go to retire, So
you're talking about anople their population who might be a
little less savvy on how to tell if someone is
a pretendion. Yes, so that always makes me feel bad.

(20:46):
The average catfishing scam costs victims age seventy or older
over eight times more than victims under thirty.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
Oh no, And this is a really.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Interesting thing because they actually talk about people of millennial
age report and I think this might be a reporting thing,
but they report catfishing incidences at a higher rate than
those seventy plus. But the people who are seventy plus

(21:20):
are getting got for more money.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
More victimized. All it's like more monetary if they have
more Millennials don't have any money.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeh, that's true. You can you can't take what is
not there. I have three dollars. Yeah, the data being
it started really getting tracked in earnest around twenty nineteen
from what I could tell, and since then there has
been a two hundred and nineteen percent increase in average
monetary loss. Again, I do think some of that is
due to an increase in reporting. I think so too,

(21:50):
but that is a big, a big increase. I also
would I like to add all of this perspective to say,
it can literally happen to any buddy if you are
not careful, if you're not taking the proper precautions. I
am so glad that I have kind of taught my parents,
like like what to look out for, what are the

(22:13):
sketchier things, you know what I'm saying, because like I mean,
you could be a genius and still get got by
somebody online.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Like, yeah, it happens.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
It happens. Also, I want to add in right at
the top, if you believe you are the victim of
a catfishing scam, first of all, save any evidence like
screenshots and messages, and if you are in the United States,
you can report it to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaints
Center at IC three dot gov. As well as the

(22:43):
FTC at Report Fraud dot FTC dot gov.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
And you should report it because a lot of these
catfishes are catfishing multiple.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
People, and people a lot of times feel like shame
or embarrassment that this happened to them, but like the
only way that it will get better is if you
talk to people about it, right, so that you can
raise awareness. Right, Yeah, did not feel shame like this,
can't beside let it out. Okay. So, although we've largely
been talking about the US thus far, I am going

(23:13):
to switch gears and I want to go to Australia.
Oh and talk about Carly Ryan.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
So car Carly was living in Sterling, South Australia with
her mother Sonia, and the two have been described as
sharing a very close and strong bond. So in two
thousand and six, when Carly began talking to a boy online,
her mom was the first person to know. He's like,

(23:40):
oh my god, I'm talking to this to this boy.
She started exchanging messages with eighteen year old Brandon Kin,
who was a musician who lived in Melbourne.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Oh, okay, they are all these musicians.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
There is this musician. She's like, oh my god, I
love music. Everybody does. I'm not gonna lie I when
I was, you know, sixteen seven. If I could, if
I could get him a musician, Yeah, that was the goal.
That was my type.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
You want to be the cool girl at the show.
There's nothing better. I still want to be the cool
girl at the show. But I'm tired. Yeah, I go
to bed at ten.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah. So Sonia did see some of the messages during
this time, but she did not see anything that she
think was alarming. It just was like messages between teenage
little puppy love exactly. Eventually, Carly and Brandon transitioned into
more of a romantic relationship and continued to exchange messages

(24:35):
online and speak on the phone. Okay, are talking on
the phone? Yes? This relationship went on for eighteen months.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
And of course Brandon was not exactly who he said
he was. What shocker what. In fact, eighteen year old
Brandon Kine was a fifty year old man named Gary
Francis Newman new triple name eh, just saying ow yeah.
In January two thousand and seven, Newman traveled to Adelaide

(25:07):
under the guise of being Brandon's stepfather. Oh guy named Shane.
He showed up. He was like, I'm Shane, I'm Brandon's
stepfather shows up to Carly's fifteenth birthday party, saying that
he was dropping off some gifts from Brandon. Oh my god,
he couldn't come, but but I can. He loves her

(25:28):
very much, so I'm bringing these gifts. You know what
the gifts were?

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Take a stab.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Who were the guests? They were LONGI was just about
to say, and a nurse's outfit. No, no, weird, No
fifteen year old.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Oh my god, I want to kill this guy.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, which I'm sorry even if Brandon was real.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, what are you getting lingerie for.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Your an eighteen year old? To getting a fifteen year
old lingerie and also having your stepdad deliver said lingerie
is like fucking weird.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
I'm not even try to be funny. That's fish.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
It is. It's so it's just uncomfortable fish. It's weird.
It's so weird.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
So Sonya, having now met Shane Yea, decides he also
She also at the time thought he yep, he was
Brandon's stepdad. Seems like a nice guy, like, came all
this way. She allowed him to go to the party
and stay the night However, the following morning, he was

(26:29):
asked to leave immediately because his behavior behavior became really
fucking weird. He had been lying on Carly's bed while
she was asleep. What and later Carly told her mom
that he had touched her inappropriately in a sexual way,
and she was like, get the fuck out of my house.
Well good mom, Yeah, get out of here. This is

(26:50):
from the Australian Women's Weekly Quote. Sonya tracked down Shane's
email address and warned him to stay away. She received
an abusive email from the address Satan's dot commando at
hotmail dot com that said, bitch please. It began. That
email was so full of lies and hearsay, and I

(27:12):
am disgusted me that someone of a reasonable intelligence could
believe such crap to be true. The things you called
me were totally defaming and I have forwarded the email
onto my solicitor for further review or for the action narcissist. Yes,
oh my god. Yeah. Following this exchange, Sonya revoked Carly's

(27:32):
access to the Internet and took away her phone really
began monitoring her Internet usage. Honestly, I have to say,
I feel like Sonia is doing all of the right
things at this I think so too. She's really I mean,
what can you do but monitor right?

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Right?

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Can't lock her up in the basement.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
But by this time, Carly had already gone through eighteen
months of grimming of manipulation fifteen, she's fifty. It's probably
her first love. Yeah, and so when Brandon finally asked
her to meet up for the first time, she was like, hell, yeah,
I will jump at the chance to go Carly. On

(28:11):
February nineteenth, two thousand and seven, Carly had told her
mom she was heading to a friend's house for a
sleepover and left the house been there when she yet
When she did not return the following morning, police were
notified of her disappearance. Unfortunately, at the same time, Carly's
body was discovered in the water of a beach near

(28:33):
Port Elliott in South Australia. Oh yeah baby. An autopsy
revealed the cause of death to be drowning associated with
craniofacial trauma. There were nineteen total injuries, with six to
eight being blows to the head.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
Oh no.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Further testing found cannabinoids in Carly's blood, which points to
the consumption of marijuana and beach sand in her esophagus.
Police were able to get their hands on secure pretty footage.
Oh good, that showed Carly along with two other men
in the area of Port Edward excuse me, port Elliott
on February nineteenth, and witnesses reported last seeing her around

(29:11):
nine thirty pm on the beach.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, this poor little girl.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Oh I feel so bad. This, along with additional evidence
of a vehicle, led investigators to Newman's home, which was
rated eleven days after Carly's murder. So they were I mean,
they were on it pretty quick. I know, eleven days
sounds like a long time, and it is a long time,
but like you have to get their evidence for subpoena
and all this other stuff made Warren and shit. Yeah

(29:37):
yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
But I love the like, wait, what about the old
guy who sent her lingerie? What about we check out
that guy?

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, yeah, good idea. Yeah, and I'm sure once she disappeared,
sonya was probably like, by the way, this weird, this
weird ass person showed up and gave my daughter a lingerie. Yeah,
oh my god, Yeah, I know, so they raid his
home when when Newman's home was raided, police found he

(30:04):
was still using the persona of Brandon to exchange messages
with another girl in Perth.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
They're always doing it to more than one person.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
A search of the house would also reveal a notebook
in which Newman kept track of upwards of two hundred
other personas, including names, ages, and passwords to the house
and all that stuff. Two hundred and he had to
write them all down to like keep track of who too,
and what password and how old they were. Yeah, bro,
that's disgusting. That is a terrible use of the internet. Yes,

(30:33):
this is what I'm saying though, Like, imagine this in
nineteen ninety nine.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, they were like, what the hell, They'd probably never
seen this before.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, so this is a little bit into the Internet age,
but like not quite you know. They were doing the
shit unchecked when we started using the internet at like
ten years old. Oh my god. Yeah, so Chills Newman,
as well as his son, who I believe I believe
it was his adopted son Okay was home at the time.

(31:05):
Both were arrested and charged with murder. Oh now, this
is from the ABC during the trial quote. The prosecution
argued that after miss Ryan fell in love with a
cyberspace alter ego created by the father and son to
seduce her. Miss Ryan rejected the father. The man's eldest

(31:26):
son told the court during the trial the father had
bragged about killing miss Ryan after vowing to get her
following her rejection of him. End quote.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
They were working together, well, hold on what.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
The trial lasted a total of twelve weeks, and after
ten hours of deliberation, Newman was found guilty of murder
and his son was actually cleared of all charges. Oh.
They talk about how he was not really involved. He
was like pressured to go with Newman, I think, and

(31:59):
he had witness the murderer. Yeah, but he did not
actually like, yeah, I'm out young as well. Yeah yeah, yeah,
he said.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Son, I will be real. The first thing I thought
was he's who she was talking to on the phone.
But if they cleared him of all charges, then no.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, And he's he's got like the older he's got
an older son and a younger adopted son. Okay, the
younger adopted son is the one who's arrested. The other
son came in and said, yeah, my dad was like
bragging about come get my killing Carly. Yeah. So in
January twenty ten, Newman was sentenced to life in prison.
With a twenty nine year non parole period. Wow. As

(32:37):
I said, although he had been a witness, Newman's youngest
son was cleared of all charges and due to his
minor status at the time of the murder, has had
his identity suppressed. They do be doing that. They are
very Australian and the UK are like very good about that. Yeah,
which I've always appreciated. We do that here, but I

(32:58):
feel like, well, we do it but not well, but
not well, not consistently, not well at all. Following the
trial and conviction, Carly's mom, Sonia, began her crusade to
honor Carly's memory and protect others from the same catfishing
schemes by setting up the Carly Ryan Foundation in twenty ten.

(33:20):
And I had to add on a little bit of
a positive yeah, So this is from the CRF website,
which I'll put the Carly Ryan Foundation's website in the
show notes as well. So this is from their website. Quote.
Sonia's aim is to create awareness and educate children and
parents using the Internet, find gaps in child protection legislation,

(33:41):
draft and recommend additions to policy, and equip law enforcement
to arrest child predators. Sooner, enabling courts to successfully prosecute
offenders end. Quote wow, which is exactly what she did. Yeah,
she did this shit. So in twenty thirty, the CRF
organization began lobbying for legal changes aimed at protecting miners online.

(34:03):
These efforts actually branched out from Australia to New Zealand
and even into the United States. Notably, Sonya Ryan received
the South Australian of the Year Award in twenty thirteen
for all of her efforts.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Now, Sonia was definitely not alone in her efforts and
was joined in the sort of like legal change aspect
by Senator Nick Xenophon, who submitted a bill titled Criminal
Code Amendment Protecting Miners Online Bill twenty seventeen. This was
submitted to Australia's Parliament. The aim of the bill was

(34:40):
quote to introduce an offense to criminalize acts done using
a carriage service to prepare or plan to cause harm,
to procure or engage in sexual activity with a person
under the age of sixteen. This expressly includes a person
misrepresenting their age online as part of a plan to
cause harm to person under sixteen years of age. So Essentially,

(35:04):
what it does is it makes it so law enforcement
is able to intervene before like a physical act takes placed,
yecause that's always.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
So frustrating, like being like you can't do anything yet
and it's like whoa.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well they're just so it's like the idea is like, Okay,
they're just talking to your kind online, which is like
is not great, and they're lying about their age, which
is obviously not great. But until that interaction comes into
real life escalates to an actual physical, illegal act, there's
nothing that we can do. That's crazy. So this essentially
took that out of the equation, made it so they

(35:40):
could intervene before that physical act takes place and carries
a tough ten year sentence if convicted.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Good.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
The bill, which eventually became known as Carly's Law, was
passed and went into effect on June twenty third, twenty seventeen. Wow,
so it's currently affected in Australia. Yeah, just over excuse me.
Just under a month later, Carly's Law would be used
for the first time under a month before they were like, wow,
we already got one. Wow. Yeah. It was used for

(36:08):
the first time in the prosecution of a thirty five
year old convicted sex offender. This is again from Women's Weekly.
The man was allegedly quote pretending to be a young
woman online in order to groom children. The Adelaide man
is facing a total of fourteen charges, including sharing child
pornography and grooming children online. Ew So it was like,

(36:29):
which is wild to mean? It was literally less than
a month that they were like, Wow, we always have
to use as a procedeon. Yeah, oh, clearly go Carly's mom. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
So I want to wrap up by saying that if
you would like to learn more about the Carly Ryan
Foundation and what they do, you can check them out
at Carle Ryanfoundation dot com. Again, I'll put this in
the show notes as well. The CRF provides online safety
and healthy relationship seminars to students and parents in both
Australia and the United States. They do a lot of

(37:01):
work in the US focusing on Internet safety and crime, cyberbullying,
connection to resources and counseling, and contributing to law and
policy or form.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
So very cool organization.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Definitely recommend checking them out because they do put on
seminars in the US.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
I love that they have like branch out into other countries.
That's so good.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
This is a big problem here too, Like it's kind
of a big problem everywhere, but like a huge problem. Yeah. Yeah,
So that is the story of Charlie Ryan.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
That's a beautiful way to remember her.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yes, so nice. I agree. So careful about that fucking
catfishing out there, guys.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, be careful reverse Google image search. Yes, murders involving

(37:54):
the Internet. I will always find it weird, and I
know that the other millennials in our audience will agree. Hi,
millennial listeners, Well we're all doing good and not drowning
an existential fear.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
I mean, when are we not remember to.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Take your meds? And also why not add a multi vitamin?
Because God knows, man cannot live on doctor pepper and
vape juice alone.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
I literally was like, because every time I go to
the doctor, they're like, okay, you need to start taking
me twelve, Okay, start taking vitamin D. And I'm like,
at what point do I just start taking multi vitamin
combine all this bullshit into one.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
I think we're here, girl, I know I neede to.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I need to do some research and talk to my
doctor friends, because this is bullshit.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
We were on vacation recently, and we were talking to
somebody who's like very like beautiful and successful, and she
was like, if you guys tried this herb and this supplement,
and she's like a beautiful and has glowing skin. So
it was like, you know, I really should. Yeah, I'm
like sitting like a goblin on the cat I can't breathe.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
She also has good genetics, so should be here. Yeah,
but you have you met Joan? Have you met her mom? Yeah? Also,
I'm like she's got gen going. Yeah, I love her
but so nice. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
I was so mad. She has abs. You could create
cheese on her abs.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
I know. She stood up out of the hot top
and I got Jesus.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Christ, this is so how I am. I had not
met this girl. And after five minutes I literally looked
over at her and I said, I am looking disrespectfully
because you are hot.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
She's so hot, and she's wondering like she's.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
She was.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
You got both looks and personality. God damn it.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
This is the Carol Podcast. Friend, sister, There's got to
be a song about that or something. I'm sure, but
our generation has had It's sort of what you touched
on earlier. We've had sort of the unique experience of
growing up sort of at first without the Internet and
then being fully exposed to it for better or for
worse as we got older, like as we grow crazy.

(39:53):
A lot of folks my age have like a somewhat
complicated relationship with things like social media, Like we understand
and the Internet and you know, all of that lingo.
But like social media, I feel like millennials are kind
of like we're a little more skeptical than like gen
Z I would feel.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, it's interesting now, right because like we were the
MySpace kids singa kids, you know what I mean, We
were those kids right when Facebook came along, that changed
everything because it's very different from my Space, yes, and
my Space is like nice and wholesome, right well, and
all of these things have been consolidated, and you see

(40:31):
Facebook is kind of becoming the social media for older adults,
Instagram is kind of for the young ins, and we're
somewhere in between trying to figure out the right. Frankly,
just like the landscape and the longo and stuff has changed,
and it's kind of left millennials and the dust a

(40:52):
little bit dust if you are not chronically online, like
not constantly plugged in to I feel.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Like I'm chronically online and half the time like, what
the hell are they talking about?

Speaker 2 (41:01):
There are things, dude, Sometimes there are things that are
happening now I do not I do not get my
my news from social media. Probably a good idea what
tends to happen is there will be memes that are
made about like current events, and so I'll see like
a meme come up and I'm like, Okay, what the
fuck is this? Yeah, so like the radioactive shrimp thing

(41:21):
I did. I did not know that was happening until
Rachel started started sending us tiktoks about this fucking radio stop. Okay,
stop it because I'm trying to say something here. Did
not know that this is happening until Rachel sent tif
and I these tiktoks about radio and I had to

(41:41):
go and google, like, okay, what the fuck is the
deal experience? Yeah, so it's it's changed since we were like, yeah,
you know, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, Yes, and it's either you know,
get with it or get out of the fucking way,
like right with the Internet for its right.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
It's super interesting. And I notice, like with social media
to like and not all millennials obviously, but like it's
such like the TikTok thing of like I'm going to
record everything that I'm doing. Yeah, and like our generation's
a little more like huh, like I have I have
to do that. So it's like there's this divide.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, yeah, but I don't think I do not create content.
I am a thousand percent a lurker. But even like Facebook,
I barely use Facebook and answer I lurk. I don't look.
I don't post anything. I just look at what other.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
People, mostly for updates or like every so often. I
don't know anything, not really on Facebook. On Instagram, I
do Nope, but I like Instagram. I like pictures. I'm
like a baby. I have to be like constantly visually entertained.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
No, I pretty much, honestly, I pretty much stopped using
them in twenty sixteen.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
I don't blame you, though. Honestly I don't really interact
with that many people. I just look at stuff.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, it became a very toxic landscape in twenty sixteen
for obvious reasons. Yeah, so I was like, yeah, I
think I'm done with this, And honestly, if it wasn't
for the podcast, I don't know that I would have
social media in general, but also I need to be
able to creep on people. That's very important in a
very non illegal way. I just I just need to
check out what is going on in Pyes.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
It's the bit we were talking about creeping on somebody
this morning. I'm not good at social media, I feel.
But the Internet, despite having its obvious faults throw back
to butt sniffers dot com, is overall a wonderful and
very valuable tool, and it has certainly done its part
to help solve some pretty crazy cases, especially like in

(43:31):
the modern time, in ways that couldn't really have happened
without the chronically online logging on to lend a hand.
So I like how we kind of interpreted the prompt differently. Yeah,
like my case today deals a lot with the people
of a community, not just focusing on key players such
as the victim or his killer. They might not have
been irl neighbors, but members of this community, of the

(43:54):
online community, would help lay this interestingly named victim to rest.
And his name, you're not even ready was Abraham Shakespeare.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Okay, what a name.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
We love his name And that was his real name too.
That was his real ass name. He was born nineteen
sixty six, Abraham Lee Shakespeare. He had kind of like
a tumultuous upbringing. Okay, he had like trouble here and there.
I think at like he was like sixteen, he got

(44:26):
arrested for like trying to rob a store. He went
to juvie for a little bit, you know, just kind
of kind of getting into trouble. Yeah, you know here
and there, just getting into a little minor trouble. Yeah,
like whatever, who doesn't get into trouble? Sure, right, But
then the most unexpected thing ever for Abraham happened because

(44:47):
he was all you know, he was never a rich man.
He always had trouble getting work. You know, obviously when
you're a felon, even when you're a juvenile, that can
be difficult. So he was just kind of like I've
seen him described as like a casual day laborer, kind
of like go back and forth to different jobs. And
one day he was driving a truck with another guy.

(45:08):
They were doing this job together to deliver some goods
to this store, so this convenience store, and so they
pulled up and Abraham turned to his friend and was like, hey,
like if you want anything, When you're in there, I'll
give you some money. He's like, oh, this is enough
for both of us to get a drink. Because he
gave him a five dollar bill. He's like, do you
want anything extra? And he's like, why don't you buy
me two scratch offs or whatever? Just two like dollar

(45:31):
lotto tickets.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah. Yeah, And one.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Of those tickets was the gazillionaire winner. Oh shit, the
Florida Lotto. It was worth thirty million dollars WOMN. So
it was like, I think it was like a Tuesday
was when he got it. By Friday, he was on
TV like with the giant check like, oh my god,
I want thirty million dollars. Yeah, like play shit. So

(45:56):
his life changed overnight. Yeah, oh yeah, there was this
sneaky little thing. So his coworker, the guy he was
driving with, Michael Ford, ended up trying to like sue
him because he was like, well I bought the ticket
and Abraham was like, but it was with my money,
so they weren't your tickets, they were my tickets. Yeah.

(46:19):
He like kind of blackmailed him and was like you
need to give me a million dollars and he was
like no, yeah, I'm actually not fucking doing that. But
they ended up having to take it to court because
eventually Ford the coworker made up the story that he
had bought the tickets and put them in his wallet
and then Abraham had taken them out of his wallet.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Really, so it's like kind of like but he had
no proof, no, And I'm pretty sure when I am
not positive, but I'm pretty sure when it comes to
lottery tickets, it is all about possession unless you have
a written contract, because there are like lotto pools, right,
but that is that is like an agreement between everybody
in the pool, and that's typically documented. But when it

(47:05):
comes to turning in a lotder ticket, it doesn't matter
who bought it or whatever, like if you have possession
of it. Right. That's why I'm always like, if I
won like a like that, like a large amount, literally,
the first thing I would do is take that lottery
ticket and put it in the safety deposit box. Smart
it would go directly into the bank before probably before
I even reported it too. That's really Smartnession, I would

(47:27):
call it, and then I would and then I and
then I would call my financial Those would be the
two first things that I would do. I call you
be like, we're going to spait Halloween, bitch. Yeah, No,
if I want that kind of money, I'm not spending
it at Spirit Halloween. Let's be real.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
I'm spending some of it at Spirit.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
No, there's much. I'm sorry. I like a lot of
Spirit Halloween stuff, but there is some much higher quality
stuff that I would be buying. That's true. Yeah, but
you know, and I was a gazillionaire. Way overpriced.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
It is overpriced Halloween.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
I love Spirit Halloween. It is overpriced every years, getting
bad every year. It is overpriced, That's true. That is
very I spend my This is I spend my money there,
Like there are things that I spend my money out
its loyal customers.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
Yeah, it is overpriced, it is super It's gotten really bad.
But I mean if I had done what Abraham Shakespeare
had done and uh so, you know, you can get
the lottery money in a couple different ways, right. There's
they'll give you like a certain amount every month for
a certain amount of years, or they'll give you a
lump sum, and there's benefits to both. Abraham Shakespeare picked

(48:31):
the lump sum, which is honestly what I would do.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, I think That is actually the better option, I think,
because it has to do with the amount of taxes
that they tame out, and I think in the long run,
you get less taxes taken out of the lump sum
than you do by annual payments. That's what I read.
That's what it is.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yep, it's better to take the lump sum. Now out
of the thirty million dollars, he only got seventeen million,
that's still only Yeah, I know, that's what I was
going to say, for my poor.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
I can do some damage with seventeen million dollars. Yes.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
So he had lived in the sort of working class,
sort of like semi down on its luck at the
time community of Lakeland, Florida. So he lived in like
pretty state. I think he had like an apartment. He
ended up moving into a fancy schmancy gated community and
purchased a very nice home for one million dollars. Okay,

(49:21):
So what's crazy is as people were like kind of
keeping an eye on him, like, oh my god, what
kind of things is he purchasing. The only other things
that he purchased were a Rolex wal Watch and a
Nissan Ultima.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Okay, that's it.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Well, Liam Nisson, Liam NISA's niece by Yeah, so he's
in this gated community. He's living fancy, but he hadn't
gone too far from his community of Lakeland, and he
was still involved with like his family. He was a
big community guy, and Abraham had the unfortunate predicament of

(50:01):
being born with a big generous heart. So everybody was
crawling out of the fucking woodwork saying things like.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
My grandma died, my house is about.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
To be foreclosed, I need shoes for my kids, which
all valid. You know, we're all struggling out here. Capitalism's
a bitch. But he would give people thousands and thousands
of dollars for nothing and expect nothing in return. He
was too generous, way too generous. Yeah, there's a direct

(50:32):
quote from his brother because it was people in the community,
but it was his family members too, you know, random cousins.
That's like, oh, you know, I remember you when you
were a baby. Anyway, Can I have a Nissan Ultimate?

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Right? I mentioned that.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
One time right at the corner store, right, and I
mentioned that I needed a brand new niece on Ultimate.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah, yeah, with red lights seats.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
He told his brother in the midst of this he said,
I'd have been better off broke. He was like completely
regretting his sleeve. Most people who went in the lottery
reget it better off broke, get an accountant. Yes, I
do know what these people are, just like whatever, I
don't know how to manage money. I'm getting an accountant.

(51:12):
So people. Yeah, so he was just giving his shit away.
He felt used by people. He was having a really
hard time distinguishing between like who really cared about him
and who cared about him for his money. And it
was said that during this time he entered like a
period of deep depression. So then he met a very

(51:33):
interesting person, very very interesting, not as interestingly named. I
mean her name is Dories, which is like kind of weird,
but like it's not as weird as Abraham Shakespeare.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
So she came to him and what she said initially
is kind of not clear, like how she convinced him
to be her friend, and then it was like, well,
we're not just friends, business partners. She's like, oh my gosh,
I feel so bad that your money. You're having so

(52:05):
much money trouble. She's like, don't even worry. I will
take care of that for you. Me your friend Dede.
So she made a business with him, Abraham Shakespeare LLC.
Which she was like, this is gonna help you control
your money. You know, we're gonna put it through. But
guess who was in charge of the money d Yeah
she was, of course, yeah, so she And of course

(52:28):
you know, if you're like managing a business, you would
try If she was like a real helper, you would
think she would try to live within her means, right, like, Okay,
you can have all your basic bills covered by this
lump sum, but you're not gonna go crazy and buy
a corvette, a truck, a hammer, a vacation geezus. She

(52:50):
was living the high life.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
And everyone would ask her like, wow, Dedie, you're kind
of like a ship bag. And if you ever had
a ton of money, where did this all come from?
Where did all this? And she's like driving down the
street with one leg in the Hummer and one leg
in the Chevrolet.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Like whoa, my god. She's like, oh my god, it
was right.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
She's like it was just a gift. We're just like
such good friends. We're just like a besty right right.
So on November ninth, two thousand and nine, all of
a sudden. Abraham Shakespeare's family was like, we have not
heard from him in a while. That's kind of unusual,
especially because he'd been going through this, all of these

(53:30):
problems with money. He would call and try to like,
you know, have them blendon ere. It seemed like he
was very lonely.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
So they were like, oh, he's said I can't hear
from him.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
We got to go right.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
So this was in November. His family said they hadn't
heard from him since April. That was the last time
they'd physically seen him. I always thought that was kind
of weird. I understand, like he's a grown man. You know,
he's got all this money. You know, he's probably going
on vacation. But I'm like, that's a long time. That's
a long Yeah. So it was said that they had hoped,

(54:02):
like when police were like, hey, why didn't you say something,
they were like, he's been so sad. We just hoped
that he was like sowing his wild oats, like taking
a beautiful beach vacation, drinking out of a pineapple made
of gold. You know, that's what you hope for. So
they were like, Okay, let's try to figure out where
he is. So they were able to look into his
money find out he hadn't had any activity that could

(54:22):
be directly linked to him, which again was kind of
difficult because of this lady using all of his money.
But they're like, okay, he didn't buy all of this shit, right,
he did, right, So they were like, let's actually go
to her.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
I'm sure. I'm sure when you're talking, because you're talking
about large purchases, right, all of those have signatures on
them that I'm sure were her signature. Type of thing.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Was like an initial thing of like, well, he's still
making purchases because it's in his name. But then it's like,
oh no, this is this.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Thing once you look into the agreements and fingers in
the pond.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Yeah. Yeah. So they were like, okay, let's go to D. D.
Moore's house. Let's start walking around her backyard. As a
murder kind of sewer, what's something that you see in
someone's backyard where you're like, oh, maybe that person's a
murderer because for me, it's a newly put in concrete slab.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Well, not necessarily, I mean not necessarily. Well, no, of
course I have a patio. There's nobody under it. Yeah, yes,
that's what a murderer. That is what a murderer would
say state. I love how you're like, not me though,
but everyone else that puts a concrete in the bag.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Well, I mean I think that probably at this time
because Deedey Moore had quite the rap sheet of being
a fucking con woman, yeah, and being slippery and slimy.
I kind of feel there's this also, I don't know
if I've even brought up that she was a white
woman and Abraham was a black man, so there was
all of this like is she taking advantage of him?

(55:54):
Like what is going on? So I feel like if
the cops were already suspicious enough to be going into
her backyard like when she wasn't there to see like
a freshly poured concrete slab is kind of like oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
I feel like, yeah, I feel like if you were
discovering that in the course of a murder investigation, that's
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
That's not just like my neighbors putting they might need
to put a shed there, like since that you would
put a concrete slab in your backyard, only one to
hide a boty sat on my patio.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Yes, literally, I have Yeah, there's a hot tub back there, Dude,
maybe they're getting a hot tub.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
I feel like, honestly, with all of the ship that
she was buying, it was like, well, maybe she's putting
it a hot tub, which is true, you know, but
they were suspicious enough they were like, where's the hot tub, dity,
she hasn't been delivered. I didn't delivered.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
So they dug up. It was like nine feet of
dirt underneath it and found the body of Abraham Shakespeare.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Damn. Yeah, so he was under there.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Yeah, So they the detectives sort of traced his timeline
back trying to figure out when's the last time he's
actually been alive, because it's been several months, right, They
say that he probably died in early April, in April
six or seven, because they were trying to figure out, like,
has he been alive for a little while and just
like not contacting his family, like he actually die. They

(57:21):
think he died right away. They took her into custody,
took T. D. Moore into custody on a million dollar bond,
which is fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
That's a huge bond.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
They found out through like talking to all of her
shady acquaintances that she had contacted someone and been like, hey,
can you like dig up this concrete slab in my
backyard and just like there's like stuff in the dirt there.
Could you just move it somewhere else and like make
a big deal about it. She was trying to get
him to move Shakespeare's body because she knew the cops

(57:54):
around her tail, right, But I'm sure he was like,
why am I digging up?

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Now?

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah? That's weird, that's awkward. That's not a job I'm
gonna take.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
She was so part of her like rap sheet was
things of insurance fraud she had falsely reported and this
is something I never say, but this lady is shady.
She had reported, like I had accused someone of sexual
assault and it turned out they didn't do that. This
was this whole thing. So they were trying to figure out,

(58:26):
like how how are you connected all of your like
creepy little stuff connected. And it was kind of hard
because it's like, you know, we're we're listening to this
and we're like, she sucks. She's obviously the murderer. But
isn't that uncommon to see people who are shady with
money around someone with a ton of fucking money and
a nice, big heart, a big naive guy. So luckily

(58:51):
this was so this was before so he was missing.
Right Have you ever been to the online forum called
web sluts. Of course, of course you have.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I'm sure we were wondering where the internet was going
to come into this.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Getting to it. I'm getting so, I'm getting there. So
while when the news broke that like he was missing,
they were thinking foul play, it gained a lot of
attention online because he's this big.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Lottery winner, right.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Yeah, So on web sleuths there was this whole community
being like, where is this dude, Let's find him. If
he's on vacation, We're going to find him. This badass
Cindy Parrott another fun name. Her name on webs is
the Sleuthster. Okay, yes, she was like, this case is
for me. So she made like a whole forum about it,

(59:44):
had users sort of under her who she was sending
for them to look at, like property records, news articles.
And someone in the forum was like, he said, sluster man,
She's like a dog with a bone. There was no
stop in her. She was just like when other people
were tired. She was like, we're gonna find this fucking guy. Yeah,
this is my full time job, Parrot had said. At first,

(01:00:09):
I thought maybe he did just go off and was
on some tropical island drinking of margarita. But then as
I delved into it, I discovered that he had a
small child and was close to his mother. He didn't
seem like a man who would just take off, right,
which is very fair. Yeah. So eventually the web sleuths
were able to connect the story to his business partner

(01:00:31):
because they were looking up all of this like business,
business business. They were like, this is a shady ass bitch,
like she's been acting as his business partner, but she
doesn't have business experience.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
It's like super awkward. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
And then there's this other thing. So as the websites
were like, let's look into DEDI she has this company
called American Medical Professionals. Is she a medical professional?

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I know, you don't have to be to call your
company that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Well, I know, but a little disingenuous, don't you think?

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Well, yeah, but what company is is well, that's true
regular genuous right now.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Yeah, there's a lack of genuousness that is going on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
It is the word of genuine. Genuine, is genuine is
the word that I'm looking for, Like, what is the obvious?

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
What is the opposite?

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Disingenuous? Ingenuous?

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Well, disingenuous is the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
I know, but I'm saying genuine is the yeah, yeah, anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Podcast. So they were trying the web solutions were like,
let's see if Abraham Shakespeare sold his home and like
maybe bought a home somewhere else, like in another country
or something. And then they were like American medical professionals
owns his home? M well, who owns that? Oh Deedy Moore?
Oh hey, what's up, bitch? Yeah, And then they went
on her social media, which quick bit of advice. If

(01:01:51):
you murder somebody, don't post shit on social media. Stupid bitch.
She was posting pictures inside the home like this is
my Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Well, she probably thought she would never get caught.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Well right, but it's like I wouldn't just sell that
house and buy a different one, Like it's just dumb.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Yeah, but she couldn't sell it, I'm sure because her
name was probably not on the original mortgage. Oh that's fair.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Haven't these people ever heard of money laundering?

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Whatever?

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
So they started really focusing the web sluice community started
really focusing on it, and this got the attention because
it was such an active forum. This got the attention
of a former Polk County detective, David Clark. So he's like,
I'm a detective. Let's see what's going on. Logs onto
the internet and he's like, oh my god, these people
have already done all my work for me. He said, quote,

(01:02:43):
I get on the internet and I come across this
web slue forum. You have ten or fifteen people finding
property purchase agreements, financial records. I questioned, how are they
able to get this information? I need a subpoena to
get it, but they've got it. Yeah, because they're good online, right,
because they're sneaky. So luck instead of being like you
crazy kids, he acknowledged them and took their evidence and

(01:03:06):
was able to move the case forward.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Yeah, it's kind of interesting because yes, he needs a
subpoena to get the original records.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Right, they could have hard.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Done the Like that research is stuff that they could
have done. Like if you can find stuff publicly online,
like that is fair game, right, But like you would
have to get the original records from the company in
order to present them in court. But what that did
is it narrows down what they need to be asking for,
what they need to be looking.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
For, like a lot of the like red tape that
they always have to jump through. It's kind of like
this kind of took care of it, well.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
You know, I mean, in a way it eliminated the
sort of phishing for records right to be like, hey,
we need these where you can go to wherever and
be like we need records from this specific time period
or this specific transaction or whatever it happens to be. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
Yeah, So let's let's go back to Miss Dedie Moore.
So she's living in this house, living it upright, champagne,
writing with diamonds, and another thing that she's doing in
her spare time is getting on the internet, okay, and
she makes her way over to this forum investigating the
death of the guy she fucking killed.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Sure, and she's probably like definitely not this deity character.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Herrect she Oh no, she's posting as herself.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
So she's like, hey, guys, just so you fucking know,
I did not do that. And he just texted me wow,
contact with me. You guys are just being so silly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
That's insane, and that's insane to be like, that is
insane to me. You know, you are the person that
people are pointing the finger at, like the number one person,
and to be like, surely they'll believe me when I say,
oh he reached out to me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Less night, right, And that's what she was thinking. She
was like, oh shit, I need proof. So she goes
to her friend named Greg Smith. She was like, hey,
just get on the phone and be like, I'm Abraham Shakespeare.
I am an alive man and not in your backyard. Yeah,
so she had he made the call. Police were very
easily able to be like, that's obviously not fucking him,

(01:05:12):
and tracked him down and he agreed to flip it
on more probably for like there, like we're gonna take
you to jail, and he was like, what if I snitched,
because that's a good.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Place because if she got charged, they'd be like aiding
at a bedding, like right, yeah, right? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
So through him and through right, isn't she an idiot?
Through him and through the web. That is how they
were able to go to her backyard and find him
in the dirt under the concoct okay that she had
bought with his money, right, which is the settest fucking
thing in the world, right, Clark, the detective said, I

(01:05:48):
don't know if any other detectives would acknowledge the huge
impact that the web Sluice investigation had on our case,
but I will acknowledge it. The web slus were very
instrumental in helping us in the case. Some of the
stuff they uncovered was extremely helpful to us, which is like,
so so nice, Yeah, so on, it's the goatter they
gat her. On December tenth, twenty twelve, she was convicted

(01:06:11):
of first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison
without the possibility of parole, and then with an additional
sentence of twenty five years for possessing a gun. So
his body was so like decomposed, they weren't quite able
to figure out what happened, but they ended up being like,
this is probably a gunshot wound. Yeah, so she got

(01:06:33):
in trouble for having a gun because she's a felon
as well. So even if somehow she ends up getting
prolled or something, even though it's life without parole, she
still has that like little tack on. Yeah, you're also
in trouble for the gun girl. Yeah, yeah, there is
a really cool I wish that I had been able
to watch it, but I don't have Hulu and I'm poor.

(01:06:54):
There is a Hulu series called Web of Death. Okay,
you ever seeing that that's the first episod. It's like
one of those like anthology series. That's the first episode
that like focuses on it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
So it's been on like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
A coaches like a single episode, right, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Right, okay, so that's new. And then in twenty twenty
four he was in a well, he was in his case,
was featured in a Peacock original Buried in the Backyard.
And then in twenty twenty five he was on twenty
twenty in an episode called Unlucky Numbers, which also illustrated

(01:07:34):
the problem that lottery havers have.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Abraham Shakespeare was an extremely kind and gentleman. He helped
people with no expectation of anything in return, helped all
kinds of people with his money. I mean, I think
just saying like he bought a not that expensive car
and a Rolex watch, which, by the way, he bought
at a pawnshop. He didn't right at the role store,

(01:08:00):
so it probably wasn't as expensive as it would have been.
So he just wanted something to look nice and somewhere
to take in place.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
I mean that's the thing, is like there's nothing when
if you find yourself in this situation, right, there's nothing
wrong with getting yourself something nice. Of course, the issue
is people go overboard and they're just like budget, they
don't know how to budget, they don't know how to
you know, stop buy it, like stop purchasing.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
And honestly think I would have a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
That's and that's exactly why I'm like, I would go
to my financial advisor for absolutely, because there's definitely things
that I would want to do, right, Like I'd want
to buy a house, I'd probably want to replace the car.
But I'm also not running out to be like I
need a BMW, I need a Maserati, Like I don't
need that shit.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
Honestly, if you put a gun to my head, I
don't know it either.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
One of those cars. Yeah, so it doesn't even matter
for me.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
Yeah, I'm like, I literally just want like a car
that I like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
It's like not a piece of shit, right, I keep
my mom you know. Yeah? Yeah, but you want like
the BMW version, I don't know if that's those are
like the those are like the luxury BRANDSW I mean
I have a van. I see all this ship around
in because our office is in Obrook and Obrook is

(01:09:13):
a ferry.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
Area.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
You see a lot of rolexes. Yeah, I see not
a lot of rolexes, but I see a lot of Mercedes.
I see a lot of BMW's. I see oh, what
is the one Porsche? I see a lot of Porsches.
I see a lot like kind of these luxury Yeah,
car brands.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
If I were going to get like a fancy car,
I would get like an old car. I like the
way that like the older cars.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
I'd probably get like an evy of some sort.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Oh, like an ego like you plug it in. Yeah
I have that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Yeah, not a Tesla, but like, no, no, literally anything else.
Actually actually, there's like a an electric Mustang that is
not not like a Mustang Mustang, but it's like part
of that line that is actually pretty cool looking. Wow,
because that's the other thing. I think they look kind
of dumb because a lot of them are missing the
grill on the front because you don't need it. But

(01:10:09):
oh yeah, anyway, this is not a conversation about car.
It is not a conversation about cars.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Very fair. So we remember Abraham Shakespeare as a very
nice man who got taken advantage of by Deedy Moore. Luckily,
I don't think there's any way that she will ever
get out of prison. So she's going to spend the
rest of her natural life haggling over cinnamon buns and
shower combs. And that's how it should be. Good rest

(01:10:35):
in peace, Abraham Shakespeare RPE. Yes, yeah, well that was great.
That was a great story.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Before you decide to do whatever somebody is telling you online, yea,
why don't you check out this podcast? Do it?

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
We're the Vocal Fries.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
I'm Carrie and I'm Megan.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
And we have a podcast about linguistic discrimination.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
We talk about language, not being a jerk, not judging
people for the way that they speak, and we try
to have a good time. We talk about things like
vocal fry, swearing, Southern American English, and prescriptive grammar.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
You can find us on iTunes or your favorite podcast app.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
All right, that has been a great show. This is
our episode for the week. That's it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
I hope you guys like that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Do you have any final thoughts before we close? Out.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
You know, I think this should have maybe not want
to win the lottery, but I want to win the
lot I would like some money, please, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
On that note, our sound and editing is by Tiff Fullman.
Our music is by Jason zak Schefski Da Enigma. This
has been the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. We will see
you in two weeks. Goodbye along the Highway.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
I think this is if the way the people washed
over with town.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
We are all you will wear it some form, wearing
another