Episode 213 - The Pizza is the Motivation

Financial ruin? Marital rage? Or just profound self-pity? We run down the terrifyingly mundane reasons a person decides their entire family is better off gone. Tune in for a rapid-fire look at familicide, the crime where the destruction is total and the motive is pure, twisted control.

You can check out the Book vs. Movie Podcast here!

Research links below!


Independent - "Woman who planned the murder of most of her family reveals why she did it."
Daily News - "Dad whose wife and sons were slaughtered forgives daughter for plotting murders"
NBC News - "Police: Boyfriend wanted to kill girl's parents"
Oxygen - "'I Don't Care - Do What You Gotta Do': Texas Teen Plots The Slaughter Of Her Family With Her Boyfriend"
abc News - "Shooting, Arson Survivor Whose Family Was Slain forgives Daughter, Killers For Plotting Murders"
The New Zealand - "Chilling moment police tell Terry Caffey his daughter had their family killed"
CNN - "Daughter, 16, charged in murder of mother, brothers"
Texas Monthly - "Flesh and Blood"
True Crime Central - "Piers Morgan Interviews Woman Who Killed Her Entire Family | Erin Caffey | True Crime Interview" (YouTube)

abc News - "British Millionaire 'Killed Family, Torched House'"
The Guardian - "Millionaire facing ruin shot wife and daughter and then killed himself"
BBC News - "Police praised for Osbaston House mansion deaths case"
Crime and Investigation - "Christopher Foster"

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, It's Vicky from the future popping in at
the beginning of this episode just to give you guys
a little heads up about some shall we say, technical
difficulties we encountered. Unfortunately, this means that you will only
be receiving one episode this month.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I know. What a bummer.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Uh just imagine it's even more of a bummer for
us that has to re record, But we are happy
to do it because we want to bring you, guys
the quality stories that you love. So look forward to
having our lost episode sometime and probably December, but for
now this will have to do. Enjoy the show.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
While they discovered upon their arrivals unspeakable, I'm not doing
It's got to worry about.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Something.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at
least I felt that I could keep their skeletons.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
I am Vicky. Oh my god, I'm Rachel, and we.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Are back from our long fall break. We have literally
skipped over fall in winter. There's for the first time
last night. Yeah, it's disgusting. I wasn't ready for it,
but oh were you? How was How was the little
break that we took.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
You know, it's been good. I feel like both of
us came back from our break with new lore chapters
in our lives. It's very excited.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
We had a long talk before we started recording because
there has been a lot to catch up.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
On smoking sush. Yeah, it was a lot. It was
a lot. But we are here, We're ready, We're back,
We're in the mindset.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
We like to catch up with you just before the
tail end of the year, before we go into the
new year, to gale you with some more stories of
the horrifying Get ready, you right, you're gonna say, get wrecked,
get wrecked, get fucking wrecked with our crime. I'm very
excited to be back. It was it was definitely a
much needed break.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
It was, but it's like nice to be there. It is.
It is great to be bad in the studio.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
And if it's your first time listening, a special special
Hello team.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Welcome, welcome in. We love you.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
We are going to head over to the newsroom.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Let's go there watching locals today we had fifty.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Our news this week from the BBC comes from Australia day.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
May have you ever heard.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Of an artwork called the Blue Blob I.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Thought you're gonna say, have you ever heard of Australia?
And I was like Australia, and no, I have not.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
So it's actually it's an art piece called cast in Blue.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Okay, let me show you a picture. If you're at home,
just imagine, I'll describe it to you. Oh it's blue
as fuck. It's like a little a big, old fat
blue guy.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
It's like a man of an anteater nose.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I kind of love it.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
And he's sort of hunched over as if a sloth
was walking up yet and with like a little bit
of that beer belly kind of thing. It's really cute.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Entirely blue. Yeah, very blue, like the blue is blue.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
There's that one blue pigment that is like oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
get what it's called. But it's like that colors, like
the most gorgeous shade of It's really cute. So there
is this artwork called cast in Blue that is known
locally as blue Blob. Okay, and yes, I like it,
but it is a blue blob. So a nineteen year

(04:04):
old Australian teenager, Amelia Vanderhorst, is actually charged and appeared
in court for allegedly defacing what the statue Amelia Bye, I.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Have another picture to show you.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Oh god, she has defaced the statue by putting big
googly eyes on it.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
But now it's perfect.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
I think is hilarious. However, I love it. In taking
off the eyes, the adhesive got stuck to the statue,
removed the color. Yeah, it like removed the paint on
the and some of the plaster on.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
The house scratched. It kind of looks.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
You know.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
What they should do is put the fucking googly eyes
back on. I agree. That made it.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Two great, yeah, but not what it's about now, what
the artist originally intended. Okay, you know what artists objective
and subjectively it needs googly eyes and I agree, And
it's caused all of this damage. Costly repairs. What they're saying,
eighty nine thousand dollars. Oh I'm sorry, eighty nine thousand dollars.

(05:11):
It costs for the entire piece of artwork. Oh okay, okay,
it was like for blue Sy not for not to
fix it. But they did say the damages were costly. Yeah,
but yeah. She was in court in South Australia for
defacing the artwork. She said that she didn't enter a plea.

(05:32):
She told the court she was sick, and so she's
getting time to get a lawyer and she will be
back in.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
December for her next court tape. But it's probably sick
about hearing this big old fucking blue blob blue. She
was probably drunk and put eyes on it. And now
she's like, that's what I'm told Kerfuffle. She's like, Oh
my god, is so cute with the eyes on it.
I think it so really, I know, it looks like
something out of Adventure Time. Goddamn, it's real cute. It's
so cute or like like a little like three D

(06:00):
printed like Gumball. It does look like I love Gumball.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, is you know it's back? Yeah, reboot of it. Yes,
I met one of the kids who voiced one of
those kids. Oh yeah, where I worked with his cousin
Don Lee's because he was also in.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I. Oh, of course, I don't remember the name of
the show, but it's like one of those like family
sitcom shows. So it's just like little like seven year old,
like little like curly headed, and I was like, oh
my god, I've heard your voice like for years. It
was so weird. Fun.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Well, we're gonna move on to Famous and Chill.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
This week.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
We actually have a two fur because these two need
to kind of be talked about in conjunction. So conjunction
we are talking about. It's a twenty twenty one docu
series called John Wayne Gacy Devil in Disguise and the
newly released twenty twenty five series Devil and Disguise John
Wayne Gacy. Okay, I see these are both on Peacock.

(06:56):
They're both Peacock originals. For everybody who who has been
listening to the show for a long time, you'll know
John Wayne Gacy is kind of like my former crime.
It's like my entry into true crime. Absolutely, So of
course I was interested in these. I knew that the
documentary series was out, I just hadn't watched it yet.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
And then the this series dropped recently, and I was like,
well that you know this this there's a lot of
these series that are like fictionalized. Yeah, but I'm thinking
more a'llah, Ryan Murphy Netflix like that kind of stuff.
I know you're not a Ryan Murphy fan.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
But the they'll talk about the dand it's so good,
what a joke.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
I disagree, We'll talk about it at another on another
show though, so anyway, but there's a lot of those
types of series happening right now. So I was like, well,
let's see if the Peacock one is good.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
So I watched it.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
I think was unimpressed after the first episode, but then
it got better.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
It grew on you, it grew on me. It really
did clowny funus. Part of it is.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Because and this is also the issue that I had.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
I think, honestly, I think it's a me issue.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
This is the issue that I have with the documentary
series as well, which again it's about JOHNA.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Wuan Gacy's life.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
It includes, uh, there was a really long interview with
him in prison that is in there, and some other commentary.
There's a lot of his couple family members that are interviewed,
family members of the victims that are interviewed.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yes, you know, but I am so.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
I know so much about this, Like I've researched this
particular case so much that it is I don't want
to say it's not as interesting to me, but it's
like all stuff that I know are You're like, I've
heard it. Yeah, And so they're in the in the
series betweenty five series there are parts, I think, especially

(09:02):
in the first episode, that you can tell, and again
I just know this from my research into it. You
can tell that our lines pulled direct from police interviews
or notes or things that they're like, this is the
line that you have to deliver this way right right,

(09:24):
and that piece of it was like yeah. But it's
almost like as the series went on, the acting got
a lot better, and the guy they got to play,
John May.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Gacy, was very good good.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Actually, I think the casting was really great, and that's
always so good. But I also think they treated it
in a really interesting way because to spoil just a hair,
the first episode begins with Robert Peaste is the last
person to be reported missing before it's like discovered that
he had all these bodies in his cross space. So

(09:57):
it starts there, okay, And literally the first episode ends
with John Wayne Gacy being arrested in the okay, So
it's it's sort of the stories of some of his victims.
It's sort of told in flashback as he's like being
convicted and they're investigating his house. It's like sort of

(10:22):
being told in flashback throughout, so it's not just like
a start from the beginning followed him through all of
his crime type of things.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
It's like him. Yeah, and they did it really well good.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
You know, at the end of every episode, the victims
that they portrayed in those episodes, they showed their pictures,
they talked about good they like gave I think.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Like the years or whatever.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
And they also provided a website for it's like sexual abuse.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
There's like likerise websites.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, so I think they treated it with a lot
of respect.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Important it was a pretty accurate portrayal.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
I mean, obviously there's always things in there that are
somewhat fictional, but like generally speaking, I think it was
a pretty accurate portrayal of like what was going on.
I actually really enjoyed it, I think simply because it
was sort of a different take on like the storytelling.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
That sounds really interesting.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, I would definitely check it out. The docu series
if you're not that familiar with the case is good.
Uh huh, It's fine. It's one of these things that
I have on in the background. Again, I'm just like, right,
I don't know, I'm just not that into it.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
I too much.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I think it was too much. I know, way too much.
Does there both on Peacock easy to find. Just searched
on my casey, I'm sure you'll be able to find them.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Have you ever heard the theory that he never painted
any of those paintings that he sold in jail. He
paid other prisoners to paint them.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
I have he had like a whole like like business
running where he would get them to paint for him.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Isn't that right? Interesting? I have.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I think it's a little of both. I think some
of them and I think he did hire something.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
I think he has too much a thing to go
to have any Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
But he would have complete control over what they're doing,
because right that's he was that fucking manipulative.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Anyway, crazy on this is that part of the show
where we say content may not be appropriate for all listeners.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
We realize we are coming back full on holiday season.
If this episode comes out on time, Thanksgiving will just
be days away.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
All such a nice family holiday, and.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
You know we love a fucking theme episode. Of course,
of course we do. And whenever it's Thanksgiving, it's always
famili sized because you have to remember it's a time
of being with your loved ones and sometimes you're not
so loved ones and eating.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
A lot of food.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Love that part, being all together in one place. Thanksgiving
is probably my least favorite of all of the holidays.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
I don't like Easter.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Well, I mean, he's just kind of useless. Easter, I don't.
I mean it's Christians like it, right. Candy. I'm always
a fan of candy holiday.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
I can go and get candy. There's no Thanksgiving candy.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, but I gotta tell you, there's certain candies that
come out only at certain holidays, and the sweet tarts
that they release at Easter that are the chicks and
bunnies are the best sweet tarts that they make.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
I like the like out there, my opinion. The like
jelly beans, not the like old people jelly beans. Yeah,
the like Starburst jelly beans right right right.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
They can't get those any time you're and you probably
good online, but they cost a lot more, you right,
It's only because of the candy candy holiday anyway. So
Thanksgiving is upon us again, and here we are. We've
definitely done this before. I've done a Famila side episode
of Thanksgiving. I mean it's appropriate, right right, Famila side
family annihilators essentially folks who decide for whatever reason that

(13:50):
the rest of their family needs to exist no longer.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
So so that we're talking about it's going to be
pretty or so, yeah, it's not going to be great.
I'll be real. One of my least favorite topics. Yeah, sorry,
was dreading it just a little bit. Sorry, girl, But
we're here. We diverse in this bitch.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
We're all here together, holding each other's hands.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
So we're gonna start this week with the Kaffe family murders.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Oh okay.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
So located in Alba, Texas, which is like a really
tiny town. I think, smaller than Union, which is where
I really very tiny.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Whoa.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
The Caffe family was made up of mother Penny, father Terry,
and their children thirteen year old Matthew and eight year
old Tyler and sixteen year old Aaron. There's so many
typeos in that sentence. I don't know what I was
doing in my.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Start type from this. Geez, you were thinking about Thanksgiving?
I guess.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
The family were part of the Miracle Faith, Baptist Church
and Devo Christians. Of course, they probably loved Easter. Loved Easter,
not even for the candy. They love the game. They
were even homeschooling their kids with Bible based curriculum for
about three years prior to the stuff that we're going

(15:15):
to talk about.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Wouldn't recommend doing that.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, the entire family, it seems, was involved in the
music side of things with the church. Aaron was involved
in the choir. She like played piano. They I think
they talk about her being the organist possibly for the
for the church as well. In two thousand and seven,
Aaron was working at a Sonic Sonic Ymlicious where she

(15:39):
have been to Sonic.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I know. My husband is like the world's largest
like icy enjoyer.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
When they finally came to Illinois, it was a very
big deal, formative event when Sonic showed up in Rockford.
So at the Sonic she was working there, she met
eighteen year old Charlie Wilkinson. Now Charlie was described by
Oxygen as quote a somewhat rough and tumble outdoors type.

(16:06):
This is from Texas Monthly quote. He always seemed to
be broke, and he drove a beat up nineteen ninety
one Ford Explorer that had to be push started. He
was good looking in an unassuming kind of way, with
sandy hair and light blue eyes, and he nearly always
wore wranglers, black cowboy boots and oversized western hair.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Ew. I mean, I guess it is Texas.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
It's Texas. Yeah, we are in Texas. Let me remind you.
So that's pretty cool, all right, I'll let it go.
The two hit it off and began a romantic relationship,
which is something that Aaron's parents were probably not big
fans of, I would assume given their religious background or.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Like sun take off the head at the dinner table. Yeah,
that had please too big.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Aaron decided she was tired of the homeschooling situation and
had asked her parents to return to public school, and
they agreed. Part of this, I think there was a
return for a couple of the kids, and it had
to do with like childcare and working and things like that. Right,
so she goes back to school. This is perfect, of
course for Aaron and Charlie's budding relationship because they went

(17:13):
to high school together and now like I spent even
more time together.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
So Charlie had around this time given Aaron a promise ring. Okay,
that was that formerly belonged to his grandmother, and it
was his grandmother's engagement ring whoa and she started swiftly
she Fandma's an engagement ring, and she started wearing it
around and the family noticed.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
At like a church function that she was wearing it.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
And Penny was like, you gotta return this, Yeah, you
gotta give it back, We gotta you gotta break up
with this guy tried, you know, they were they were like,
all right times for this relationship to be done, right. So,
like I said, they were initially tolerant of it, but
when Aaron's grades started slipping, yeah, they were like, you
gotta break up right. Penny and Terry decided to look

(18:04):
into Charlie a little bit more, and they started browsing
his MySpace page, which had references to sex and profanities.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yep, and they were not super big fans of that profanity.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
It's not the fuck you words.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
When Aarin began breaking her phone curfew remember those, Aaron,
Terry and Penny demanded the couple separate. Obviously, she was upset,
and it was at this point that Aaron started chattering
to people about killing her parents.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh dear, this.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Was the only way that she and Charlie could be together,
she believed. For about a month, Aarin and Charlie began
planning how they do it, and they even enlisted Charlie's
friend's twenty year old Charles Wade and his girlfriend, eighteen
year old Bobby Johnson. She's By March two thousand and eight,

(19:02):
they seemed ready to carry out their plan. Early in
the morning hours around three am on March first, two
thousand and eight, Aaron, Charlie, Bobby, and Charles put their
plan into action. While Aaron waited in the car with Bobby,
Charlie and Charles entered the caffe home. The two found
Penny and Terry's bedroom and began shooting. Penny was shot

(19:26):
multiple times with a twenty two pistol, and when the
gun jammed, Charles pulled out a samurai sword finished the job,
nearly decapitating Putty.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
They then shot Terry five times and they kind of said, well,
we have to take care of the kids. It's unclear
if they were like, we have to take care of it.
There are claims that Aaron was like, well, make sure
that you take care of the kids because they'll talk.
So they go off. They go upstairs. They shoot Matthew
in the head before stabbing Ti with the sword. Leaving

(20:01):
them both to die. Aaron had also prior to this,
relayed that there was two thousand dollars stashed somewhere in
the house, so they started looking and searching the house
for valuables, while the rest of the Kaffe family just
died in the house, so they end up leaving with
only about three hundred and seventy five dollars. They then

(20:22):
use lighter fluid and set the house on fire before
leaving with Aaron and Bobby. However, what they didn't realize
is that Terry was still alive, which is crazy, Yeah,
realizing that the house is on fire and frankly that
he was even still conscious at all, and he's like

(20:43):
grappling with the fact that he just had to watch
his wife die next to him. Terry manages to get
out of the house via a window and crawls for
an hour to the nearest neighbor's house to call for help.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Later interviews, he talks about like I knew Charlie, like
they knew Charlie. He was like all I could think
about was identifying this guy. Like that was literally the
only thing that was driving me at this point, Yeah,
to live long enough to identify the fact he didn't
pass out. I think it's crazy, and he was cheffed
five times.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
God, yeah, it's like fifty cents, all right, geez.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
So he gets to the neighbor's house. They were able
to call nine one one and emergency services was quickly dispatched.
Terry was taken to the hospital where he had emergency
surgery but survived and was able to identify Aaron's boyfriend
Charlie as one of the attackers. Now, thanks to the
identification from Terry, police were able to go directly to

(21:44):
the trailer where Charlie was staying on the same day
that the murders happened.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
They just go because this, like I said, this was
like three or something in the morning.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Oh okay, like really so like the same day. When
they arrived, not only did they find Charlie at the trailer,
but they also found Aaron, who at that point was
claiming that she had been kidnapped. Yeah, and Aarin like
with armed with this information, Aarin is taking to the
hospital and she was tested for ro hypnol and HB,

(22:15):
a lot of like memory less drugs, all of which
came back negative. There were also no signs of smoke
in elation from the burning home, which like burned to
the ground basically in very short order. After that, Charles
and Bobby were also arrested. Please thinking Aaron was they
at this point were still thinking she's like collateral damage

(22:35):
and all of this. Decides to take her as well
as her grandparents immediately to see her dad in the hospital.
But while they're on the way, they get a call
that Aaron is actually a suspect and she was.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
They like, pull over.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
They put erin in handcuffs in front of her grandparents,
Like because suspect.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
What a nightmare. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Now, as the investigation continued, a more full picture of
what happened starts to take shape. During his initial interview
with police, Charlie tells them that he had originally told
Aaron just to run away, just like run away from
the house.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
But she was the one who was insisting that killing
her parents was the only way that they were going
to be together. Now again from Texas Monthly quote, I
ain't got no conscious, Charlie said to the investigators about
his decision to follow through on Aaron's wishes. I joined
the army to do whatever needed to be done without
thinking as for her parents, he said, I intended to

(23:39):
kill them because I thought I was in love end quote.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Uh, yeah, Jesus.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Initially, Charlie, Charles, and Aaron were charged with three counts
of capital murder.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
They had pretty much decided that they weren't going to
seek the death penalty for Aaron, but that they would
for the other two. And I think it had to
do with Terry coming to them and saying I'm sure, yeah,
but all of them had a one point five million
dollar bond. They were all being tried as adults because

(24:12):
even Aaron was underage. Yep, she got tried as an adults. Obviously,
with this happening, the community was reeling like, this is
a small town. This is crazy. This is from NBC News.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Quote.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Classmates described the Kaffe's daughter and Wilkinson as inseparable and
with few other friends on campus. Many were especially stunned
by the arrest of Bobby Johnson, widely described as a
good student, active in theater at the high school. Oh
that's so sad, which is because I get the impression
from what I've seen that she wasn't necessarily.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Down to do this.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, and probably didn't even think it was going.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
To happen, like probably not.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Like she was like, I don't really want to drive
you guys over there, and her boyfriend kind of talked
her into it, so.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Oh, we're just going to go talk.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Oh okay, I mean obviously she still made the decision
to bed.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
It was a wrong decision, but it's like, you know,
we were all teenagers. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Charlie was also described as not really causing any trouble quote,
other than constantly being told to remove the cowboy hat
he always wore to school.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. I imagine it
like a Doug Demodome hat. Doug Demodump demodump.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
All four of them would eventually plead guilty and take
plea deals in order to avoid the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Both Charlie and Charles received life sentences without parole. Bobby,
who had been the one waiting in the car, was
charged as an accomplice who did not use a weapon
and received forty years in prison and would be eligible
for parole after twenty five years. That's a lot, so
twenty five minimum.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Aaron received two life sentences plus twenty five years with
the possibility of parole when she is fifty nine.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Terry being left as the only survivor of an attack
that his daughter ultimately planned and carried out, and now
he is like literally the only surviving member of their
family something that I can imagine would be very troubling

(26:21):
for anybody.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
You would think.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
In interviews since the murder, he recounts being suicidal in
the immediate aftermath and trying to sort of like grapple
with being the only one left alive. However, he also
said he really relied on his faith to pull him through,
even allowing him to forgive his daughter.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
In the time since the murder, Terry has remarried and
he's got four kids, one biological and three adopted.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Which I think is wonderful. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
During the sentencing hearing, Terry was able to give a
statement in which he said, quote, in time, God has
shown me what it means to forge. Charlie Wilkinson, I
want to say to you today, I forgive you not
so much for your sake before my own. I refuse
to grow into a bitter old man. If I want
to heal and move on, I must find some forgiveness
in my heart and that has been the hardest thing

(27:13):
I've ever had to do because you took so much
from me.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Terry continues to visit his daughter in prison YEP, asking
some questions about that night, but really he's sort of
said he chooses to believe Aaron's accounting of things.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Which is really sad. It is, and it's probably easier,
I'm sure it is. Yeah, hey, whatever you gotta do. Man,
I can't even imagine. But it is sad because there's
a lot of evidence that she play in that shit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, Yeah. That's the part that kind of breaks my
heart because it's like, not it's I mean, it's great
that you forgive your daughter, but you're forgiving her for
what exactly, because it doesn't seem like like you.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Really acknowledge how much of a hand she had in it.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Right again, I'm not anybody had a grieved but it
is sad.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
It's sad.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
She claims that she had been planning on running away
that night, but changed her mind.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
One thing presented at trial where a number of phone
calls Aaron made to Charlie and one thing, I'm sorry.
These phone calls, she claimed were to dissuade Charlie from
even coming to the house. She's like, I don't want
to do this anymore. I but Charlie was already on
his way there right now. This is again from Texas Monthly.

(28:40):
Terry says, quote, I think she thought Charlie was just
blowing smoke. I don't think she actually thought he would
go through with it. I know my daughter, she cried
one time when we were in my truck and I
ran over a squirrel. She's tenderhearted, no kids, an angel,
but I know what she is capable of, and I
know she's not capable of murder.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
That breaks my heart.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Which part of me is like, you're right because she
had to get somebody else to do it for her, right, right,
because it was her own family, because she couldn't do
it herself.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
So I'm like, in a way, you're kind of right,
Like she's probably.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Sensitive, but that doesn't mean that she's innocent.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, it's so sad. I feel so bad for her dad.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, I mean he's I'm sure he is living a
wonderful life. Yeah, he seems like he's got like a
it's just a very tragic.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
It's so sad.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Thing now since the trial ended. Almost everyone involved has
done extensive interviews with various media outlets, as well as
tons of coverage on like true crime outlets and TV shows.
I don't think, yeah, we're going to talk about that.
I thought this has been covered live. I don't think

(29:51):
we've ever covered it, and frankly, is not of case
that I'm the most familiar with.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
I am.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
But yeah, so both Terry and Aaron this is what
you're talking about took part in an episode of Doctor Phil.
I almost included some of this, but decide against it
because a big piece of the interview is just doctor
Phil talking at her while she's crying, and I'm like,
that's not super constructive. But as she's crying, he like
hands her this handkerchief that just says doctor.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Phil, the fucking logo of the show. I thought it
was I thought it was a tissue.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
I was like, oh, that's nice, and then they show
her like dabbing her eyes and it's literally like a
He's like the biggest grossers of a.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Cloth handkerchief that says has the doctor Phil logo. So
I was rashy. Really, he's been very lucky to have
like a lot of high profile cases because he sucks. Yeah. Well,
and now he's going on ice raids, so yeah, that's
for sure. Whatever.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Anyway, so I'm not I'm not gonna share that. Yeah,
but it is there if you want to look it up,
it is there. But I'm interesting. I did want to
include a short clip from a show called Killer Women
with Pierce Morgan that took place in twenty sixteen. This
is eight years after the murder. I'm going to preface
this by saying I'm also not the biggest fan of

(31:09):
Piers Morgan. He's kind of a piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yep, but every so often he has correct opinions.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
But yes, every so often, I said every so often, right,
But I will say this series was done pretty well.
He's good at this stuff. He is good at this
kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, he should be good at being a good person. Yeah,
he should try that.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
So I do kind of want to include it because
it's one of the few times that you hear directly
from Aaron, right and she Yeah, I just it's just
an It's a very interesting little.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Exchange, yeah, in my opinion. So let me get it
pulled up.

Speaker 5 (31:46):
Let me ask you some tough questions. You can answer them.
How do you want. But I think you're in a
position now in your life and you've had a lot
of time to think about this. Well, you can probably
be more honest than you could have been maybe eight
years ago. It most pretty clear, is it? You certainly
told people that you wanted your family dead. Why was that?

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Well, I've talked to.

Speaker 4 (32:10):
Several young ladies and hearing you know, they've said, well,
I said one time when I was you know, your age,
you know, I wish my parents were dead. And you know,
we say things when we're young and if we're mad,
not realizing that you gotta be careful what you say,
and especially you know, to whoever.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
As you sit here now and you look back over
what happened, how much personal responsibility do you now take?

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Well, I'm still I'm still working on that, and please
hear me say I'm not you know, I first got
looked up. I do their name blame game, but I
know I need you for myself and then for others.
Take responsibility for my action.

Speaker 5 (33:00):
And like I said, what are those actions? What do
you take your responsibility for? It's just.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
I don't know, still got some things. I got a
process and work out.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
Do you accept that your family would still all be
alive if you had wanted them to be alive. In
other words, that you could have stopped this at anytime.
You accept that that in itself must be a terrible
burden on you, that you have that power to stop
this happening, but you never chose to take that choice,

(33:46):
that option.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Okay, that's crazy. You can see why I wanted to
include this. You had eight years and you're like, oh,
you know something, just see stuff. When you're young, You're
like young insist a girl.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
A thing that I like about Pierce Morgan is that,
while I disagree with I would say ninety eight percent
of what he says politically and otherwise, he is very
good in these situations. He is asking very pointed questions
but still being said because he's not dumb. No, he's

(34:23):
not dumb at all. I find it, like, actually really
sad that he has to be conservatives.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
He's done a whole like thing with this, like going
to women's prisons and speaking to like women inmates, and
the way that he speaks to them I think is
like respectful, but like he doesn't let her get away
with it. No, I do take responsibility.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
He's like, what are you taking responsibility? Talk about answer
she can't bat so and even him being like, uh,
what do you take like in the beginning, saying what
do you do you take any personal responsibility? And she's like, well,
I'm working on that and I think that's important. And
he's like, yeah, but for what, right, Like that's the
piece of it that I'm like, you can't even acknowledge

(35:03):
what to acknowledge literally any part in it? No, like
you are saying I'm taking responsibility without being specific of
like even just saying for my part in this, right,
Like without even being specific. If you were just to
say I'm taking responsibility for my part, somebody might ask you, well,
what was your part part?

Speaker 2 (35:21):
But at least it's something because even though you were
you were in the car with the other girl, what
she would have to admit to and what you would
have to admit to are different things, right you know?

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yep, that's crazy. How unself aware she is is crazy.
I feel like she's very manipulative. Now that's I will say.
That was twenty sixteen, so we are coming up on
ten years since that interview took place, So I would
be curious me too. I would love it if he

(35:51):
started doing like ten year follow ups, me too, because
I'd be curious what her take is now. Yep, because
again it's another length of time. Obviously she's not getting
out anytime soon, right, nothing but time, nothing but time.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
So, like I said, it's clear from that clip that
there is still a very big part of her that
refuses to believe any of this is her fault at all,
or that it was really anything more than someone taking
something she had said out of really common Yeah, you
can get out of here, right, but it is I
will say. Also, a very interesting episode, he interviews Terry.

(36:30):
They like walk the property, they talk about the whole thing.
It's about forty five minutes. I'm actually gonna have the
link to the full episode. It's on YouTube. Yeah, so
I will link it in the show notes. It's it
is pretty interesting. But yeah, that is that is the sad.
I know it's really sad, but it's just I don't

(36:51):
need there's something about it that's like when kids decide,
because they're all kids pretty much. They're all under twenty
when you or under and frontal lobes, especially on those men.
No samurai sword fucking teenager. It just is like how
quickly things can escalate right to murder for some fucking reason.

(37:15):
Right is beyond me? Like, that's the thing that I think.
I I'm like, I don't understand that. How did you
go from like I'm mad that my parents don't want
us to be together to be like they should fucking
die and your sibling for what? Because they would talk whatever? Yeah,
talk to who police FU. So you picked my least

(37:53):
favorite topic on planet Earth.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Love that. Sorry, No, you're okay.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
It happens sometimes.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
I feel like you've done that to me before, have
I Probably what's your least favorite topic? I mean, I
don't know, I didn't really have that many.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Actually, there's not a whole lot for me that is
like super duper off limits.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
This is like the only and it's just like the
one you did wasn't like as it's like like babies
and little kids.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yes, I know, I know that's your I try not
to super duper focus on that, but I know that's
your tivty.

Speaker 5 (38:31):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Today's pick, my familicide pick is definitely super sad, and
there is a pretty clear antagonist in the stories, as
there usually is in these familicide cases, especially like you
did child killing the family. I did a father killing
the family, which I think is kind of the more standard. Yeah, wait,

(38:54):
I agree, but it is very It does seem to me.
It's very rarely. The mother very rarely.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
If it's going to be anything like that, it's I
feel like it's the mom taking out the kids, yes,
but not versus like, yeah, versus like everybody in the right.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, yeah, it did. The people seem to go about
it differently. Yeah, and this one isn't that unusual in that, Like,
as you listen to this, even if you haven't heard
it before, you're like, I've heard of stuff like this
happening before. But I think the real evil in the
story is capitalism. Oh god, here we go, Here we go.

(39:32):
I climb delicately onto my soap bucks y absolute lots
of money, corrupts absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
I mean I don't disagree with you, Rachel. I'm not
supposed to be a fun and happy, go lucky show.
But that doesn't mean I can't tell the truth.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yes it does. I'm here to lie to you.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Friends.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Capitalism is great. No, it's not.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
It is No, it's yeah, we need to think are
capitalistic over lords you.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Stupid. So this is the story of Chris Foster and
the Foster family murders. Okay, so this took place and
the actual murder took place the twenty sixth of August
two thousand and eight. Okay, Chris Foster murdered his wife

(40:26):
and his sixteen year old daughter, and just like your story,
the house was set on fire. Oh okay, all of
their neighbors. This was another one that was like a
big shock. Not so much, I feel, because it's like, obviously,
it's always shocking when like a teenager commits murder right right.

(40:46):
With this one, it was shocking because they seemed so successful,
Like no one saw this coming at all. This was
a big shot in the dark. So Chris had been
just sort of an ordinary salesman, was just sort of
doing his thing, and he I thought this was so funny.

(41:08):
I read in an interview, inspired by the Piper Alpha
oil rig explosion of that year, he sees do an
idea to invent a new oil rig sealant. Okay, so
this was like a big problem apparently for oil rigs
they needed like a new kind of seal. I just
thought it was so weird where he was like inspired
by this, he went on to have success. It's like

(41:29):
you're inspired by.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Like I watched that happen and I thought, how can
I fix this massive problem in the world more Sealan.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, and this celant is called all the Shield, which
I think sounds kind of to say flex tape I love,
I love the tape does not work. The celan works,
so does it? It does work.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
I always just say my favorite flex tape beam is
when he's like it's like worker rebellion and he slaps
it out.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
It just says pizza party.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Love.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
What I was working for a.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
When I was working for a previous employer I will
not name that. I was not necessarily the happiest at
and everybody there was kind of fucking miserable. We had
this girl who had started a couple of months before,
and they something was happening, and they decided to do
a pizza party for the graphic designs department, and she
responded to that thread.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
With that meme stop it.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I don't know if she did, perpreserve she didn't realize
that our manager was all it wasn't like the whole company,
but like her manager.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Was on it and the rest of us fucking died.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
That's amazing, and but we all like because it was
a very like our area is very open concept, so
like we're all at her desk, but we're all looking
at each other.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Like responded after that, but we all.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
Died the hold.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Say, well it's not untrue, but very long after that.
But I don't think it was related to that. It
was like she was there for like a couple of months.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
It was like, yeah that it was so funny, funny,
that's amazing, so good. Anyway, meme culture.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
That always makes me think when I was at a
previous employer, they did the same thing they do, like
a little financial meeting thingy every year, and it was
always like, well, it's not paid, but if you stay,
you get pizza, and also you have to stay, Like
it was kind of like one of those things. Yeah,
And I was super pregnant, and like the whole day
I was so pissed. It was just like you know,

(43:33):
hormonal rage, and I was.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Like, I just gotta get to that pizza. I gotta
get to the fucking pizza. And the managers took the
pizza and we didn't have any pizza. They gave it
to like all of the upper people first and didn't
leave any first. Wow, the pizza is the motivation. You
should have seen my my also the basketball belly rage.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
That's illegal. They can't require you to be there for
something so completely. But I know that back then, right,
I was.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Young, yes, young, and full of baby. I can literally,
if you've never been pregnant, you can't even imagine the
fire that went through my veins. I like went up
to them. I was like, where's the fucking pizza. Give
me the pizzazy crazy, give me the pizza. So by
nineteen ninety six, Chris, who you know has the odd

(44:20):
hobby of being inspired by terrible disasters, he was like,
this will draw me to invention, so he invented. He
patented this product called All the Shield, which to me
sounds like Vulus shield. So it sounds like like I
would appreciate All the Shield.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
I want a shield for my Volva gun laser gun show.
It's a shield, you said, defense. So I immediately thought, pewop,
I can't have a few pupeos. No, I don't want
my crop shooting lasers. Feeling I wouldn't have control over that.

(45:01):
The idea of that, Yeah, that's true. That's fair lasers,
Robinhood men in tights. She had the chastity belt and
it was like metal underwear.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
With the chains.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
That's what I'm picturing, the shields, the chastity belt of ceilings.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
But it was it like so it apparently was this
like really good product because it made him a ton
of money. So behind this product, he was able to
form a company kind of like around it, and it
went like huge, like skyrocketed. He was super super, super
successful and quickly became a millionaire. Nice and unfortunately, yeah,

(45:44):
and we all love that. We all love getting money.
Money is good, you know. He was just a salesman.
He had this idea and it's working out really great
for him. Okay, So I feel like if I were
to become a millionaire, I'm boring and I would live
within my means. But Chris was like, I'm getting an
aston mom, oh my god, and we all but you
shouldn't do that. And I'm getting my wife a difficult

(46:06):
like and they're buying horses and they're and of course
he's getting this massive gun collection, which I feel like
isn't a great thing to have. He's a member of
the local shooting club, he's like, oh, driving around his
fancy car shooting around. Uh yeah, I'm sure he was
doing both at the same time, probably just shooting out
the window, like of all the shoes, guns in the air,

(46:31):
and he dressed like very flashy, which like, you know,
why you've got the money. Okay. However, he I think
should have spent those first dollars, maybe the first paycheck
on like a financial manager, okay, because you really shouldn't
just like spend your money because then you won't have
any And that's what happened. He was spending way beyond

(46:51):
his meet.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
I literally don't have that money, that amount of money,
but I do have a financial advisor because I'm not dumb.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
That's smart. Yeah, I need because I I need somebody
to do.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
He would be really good at it, but I need
somebody to tell me what to do because I don't
understand me neither or accounts.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
It's so complicated. Oh my god, way above my pay grade.
No about my pay grade? Yes, not for long? Yeah,
so true, true, move it up.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Luckily he's smart enough to come up with this fantastic product, right,
and it's obviously making this money in for him, but
it doesn't make him smart with money. Okay, So that's
kind of where he was failing was by not you know,
maybe asking other people should I buy like four Porsches,
and they would be like, maybe just one Porsche, Yeah,
you know, maybe a Honda Accord, maybe Nissan, Liam Nissan,

(47:50):
Liam Nison's Nissan. So this was in nineteen ninety six,
So by two thousand and five he was kind of
slow and down. Well, he wasn't slowing down, but the
money was slowing down. By which I mean he had
racked up debts to the tune of like two point
eight million good. I don't know if I mentioned this

(48:12):
is in pounds, Yes, this is this is an English crime.
I don't think I said where it was England. I
did imagine a guy in California. As soon as it
said Aston Martin, I was like, oh, England. And then
when I looked at it further, I'm like, yeah, it's England.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
I mean, it's such like auch Car. It is an
English car. I know, you can an American people car.
I feel like every and even though these aren't American cars,
I feel like every Americans like Lamborghini, you know, fer Porsche, Porsche.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Really it's a lot of Porsches. It's a lot of Tesla's.
It's a lot of BMW's, a lot of Tesla's.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Dude, Yeah, that's gross. It's pretty super gross.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Pretty, But a lot of BMW's to BMW.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Porsches aren't BMW's like big vans all the time. No,
are they small? They're they do make sports cars. Whenever
I think I am W, I think of like a state,
like a big old car, and they do make like
more SUV type oh cars. This is the car podcast.
I don't know about fucking I don't know. Yeah, we
also are not car I don't know anything. It's so dumb.

(49:23):
So he's starting to realize, like, Okay, I am kind
of running out of money. I have all of these debts.
I feel like collectors are calling. They're like, hello, Chris,
please give us the money that you owe. Sure. So
he's like, okay, He's like, how do I spend? How
do I kind of cut back a little bit? Let's
cut back responsibly. Just kidding. I think that instead of

(49:44):
getting the uh like chemicals and things that I need
to make this Olva shield, I'm gonna just.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Like get like cheaper shit and make and not tell anybody.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yeah, I love that. So there was this whole thing
that was happening because like he had deals with these
the original manufacturers, and so they were like, you cut
out on our deal. So now he's getting all of
these lawsuits. They're suing him for damages because they're not
getting the Vulvushield money, and it's like everything is piling

(50:17):
up on him at once. And by two thousand and
seven he had to liquidate his company. Damn Yeah, bummer
legal fees are n So this is the thing because, like,
as I'm reading this, has a wife, not a rich wife,
not nast and Martin wife, but a wife, but a
wife nothe us. What is she thinking about this? She

(50:37):
might not have known. Yeah, it's pretty uncriclear. And his
daughter by this time is a teenager. She's about fifteen,
sixteen years old, Okay, so she probably had no fucking idea.
But the wife, like a lot of people who were
like around the family, were like, yeah, it seemed like
he was having like some difficulties. But we just figured
it's like business stuff. We didn't think it was like

(50:57):
a big deal. We just thought he was stressed. And
she made out of known like, really any of it right,
Like he because he lied to everything, I'm sure was
not telling anybody the truth. And they said, like when
they talked to his friends afterwards, they were like, he
would come to parties the same. You would never know
he was losing money because he's pulling up in his
fancy car, his pansy suit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Literally, I think when you're somebody in a like in
a position where you literally own your own company, people
are just like, oh, he's stressed.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Every time. He's chalked up to stress, right, And that's
what I would assume because I really don't understand anything
about business, So I'm like, boy, that sounds stressful, but
look at your fancy car and clothes. You're probably doing great, right,
sweatpants with a hole in it?

Speaker 1 (51:37):
I mean, did you know that my bank was over
drawn yesterday?

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Sorry, I'm sorry. Let me get out of the way
of your Yeah. Really, he's like, you'll move running over
And he was still bragging to people, Like It's not
like he was like, oh, yeah, you know, we're probably
doing okay. He was like I'm doing so good right,
And and I mean this kind of makes him seem
like an asshole, but everyone who was close to him

(52:03):
said he was like very warm. He was very friendly.
A lot of people I thought this was really sweet,
talked about his like very He had a very good,
like firm handshake, like he would really really get in there,
grip your full angies. So he's putting up this like
nice appearance this whole time, so nobody really suspected. So

(52:27):
on the inside, however, he's crashing out and he begins
to withdraw a little bit after the liquidation of his company.
They start noticing he's not coming around as much, and
they're like, well, he has this amazing fifteen acre property,
and I feel like a lot of rich people are like,
you know, I have to stay and like make sure
all my rose bushes are the same size and everything.

(52:49):
They kind of withdraw to the property, and that's what
he did. He was spending a lot more time at home,
and it kind of became like it was very like
King in the Castle. King in the Castle, Like he's
like becoming a troll freak because this is like one
of the only things he has left. Sure they haven't
taken it from him here, so he's like he is
like on a tractor, you know, tractoring around getting his grass.

(53:12):
So he's just like doing all of this work around
the house, I think, trying to feel useful. Okay, you know,
so during that time, there's not like a lot of
paper trail of like what he might have been thinking.
But by this time, it says he had quote no
less than twenty bank accounts overdrawn. And at this point,

(53:35):
even though he was still staying at the home, he
didn't own it anymore. This is by like two thousand eight. Yeah, oops, oopsy.
So at this point he still had like a housekeeper
and he was still like kind of able to keep
appearances up a little bit. But his housekeeper said one

(53:58):
day he came home and she was like, oh, hey,
her for you. Some people came and got a letter
and he looked at the letter. She didn't know what
the letter said, figured it was business stuff, but she
said he looked at the letter, looked very distressed and
then just kind of like put it away and was like, okay, no,
it's fine, all right, bye, thanks for the letter. And
she was like, wow, he really looked upset. I hope
he was okay. Inside the letter was it was from

(54:20):
the Bayliss's office saying, hey, we're about to take all
your shit, yike reap oman and the way we're coming
with a bunch of dumpsters. We're taking your shit. So
he had just gotten that letter, like, hey, next week,
that's our stuff now. Yeah, so he was like, oh morning, Oh,
this is the thing. This is like a detail of

(54:41):
the case that I thought was really weird. So that
this is like the day the family were invited to
like a this is so rich people. Him and his
friends were going to go clay pigeon shooting and to
have a luncheon on the on the ground.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Also very English English. I've been watching Ladies of London.
Oh my god, and that is a very that's a
very English.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah, it actually kind of looks fun. It does look fun.
I like to Honestly, I would do that too. I
think that looks fun. They were probably barbecuing like grey poupon,
and you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Barbecue, okay, we're just gonna move on. We're just gonna
move on as into unicorn barbecuing gray poupon, Okay.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
So there were a lot of people there. It was well,
you know, it was a gathering more than a party.
But like thecent amount of people there obviously, afterwards, everyone
was interviewed, and everyone said that he seemed happier than
he'd been in a while, almost like a weight was
lifted off his shoulders. Now, for us true crime people,
it's kind of like, oh no, that means the worst.

(55:45):
It's often said that people who are like suicidal, once
they've made the decision to end their life, they enter
this period of like euphoria because it's just that weight
that's lifted off of you, where you're like, am I
gonna do it? I gonna not gonna do it. Obviously,
if you're having bad THU please seek help. Yes, but
this is a very common psychological phenomenon. So like if

(56:07):
you know someone who's struggling and all of a sudden
they seem real chipper without like like, hey, I'm chipper
because I've been going to hell with therapy and I
got a new apartment and goldfish. If they're just chipper
for nothing, yeah, it's kind of a red flag, not
victim blaming, but like kind of weird that all of
a sudden we went from a hermit in his big
fancy house to all of a sudden, I'm very happy

(56:28):
and cheerful at a party no money, so it's like
kind of like eerie. So they were like, we had
a great time with Chris. He was great that day. Yeah,
so sick. There's a bunch of pictures from the party too,
where they're all like, yayah, look at us all together. Yeah,
So they went back home. They enjoyed the party. They
went back home around eleven thirty PM. Chris told his daughter,

(56:51):
who was fifteen years old at the time. Her name
was Kirsty. She was a good student, like going to school,
had lots of little rich girl hobbies. He was like,
you know what, it's eleven thirty. I think it's time
for you to go to bed. At a big day.
She was like, okay, night, Dad, night everybody around three am.
So at some point Chris and his wife Jill had

(57:13):
retired to bed, and then at three am he woke up,
went to his gun collection, collected a couple of firearms,
went to his wife's room, and shot his wife Jill
in the back of the head while she slept. He
then went into the daughter's room and shot Kirsty, also
in the back of the head. The only thing that

(57:35):
kind of it's not it's obviously horrible. I'm glad they
were asleep. Yeah, and Kirsty they were able to tell
afterwards that she did not that nobody woke up. Yeah,
they didn't wake up, So like I would be afraid
that she would hear the gunshot for her mother and
wake up and be afraid. That's what always like really

(57:56):
like weighs on me. Is like, yeah, we're scared. Yeah,
but at least she didn't wake up. I you know,
I take a little comfort in that, right, Yeah. He
then he wasn't done. Do you'd think, you know, that's enough.
He then went on to go through the house. Member
I said earlier he had a bunch of horses shot.
His horses went through the yard, shot his chickens and

(58:16):
ducks went through. There's a really hard I couldn't watch
the video because there's surveillance video because they had a
lot of dogs, and he shot the dogs all of
the and then he took the dogs and like put
them in the horse stable. They were big ass dogs,
dragging all of them into the horse stable, which he
then set on fire. Then he went and he took

(58:40):
I had to look up what this was because it
said he made sure to blocked the driveway with a
horse box. I'm like, what a horse trailer he had,
you know, for like transporting the horses. So he this
is like very very eerie. He after he had killed
all the animals and set one of the fires for
the horse stable, took the trailer and backed it up

(59:03):
into the driveway, blocking the driveway and shot out the
tires because he didn't want the first responders to be
able to get there to extinguish it, right, so he
just completely blocked off the way.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
I love how you're like, this is my least favorite topic,
and then you choose the story that has literally, i.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Knowiled an animal.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
I know, isn't this likes it was horrible Jesus Rachel.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
But I think that to communicate that capitalism is evil
is important. I'm getting dragged out of the room capitalism.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
As this is as the fire took hold, he turned
around and because he oh, then I'm sorry, he's set
with an accelerant, he set the fire to the main
house as well, so it's already on fire. As soon
as he finishes with the horse trailer, he goes back
inside and gets back into bed with his wife and
just lay it down. Yep. I'm surprised that he didn't

(01:00:01):
shoot himself. That he didn't. He died of smoke inhalation,
so he didn't even burn to death. He just kind
of like went done, went to sleep. He didn't have
like drugs in his system yo or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Oh that's extreme Yeply when firefighters arrived because obviously, like
neighbors called the police and were like there's smoke, and
they went up and they were able to get around
the fucking horse trailer.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
But the fire was so massive and like I said,
fifteen acre property, it took three days to extinguish the fire. Yeah,
three old days. That's a lot. All of the newspaper
articles so it's not just me that has takeaway were
using the quote money is the root to all evil.

(01:00:46):
That was kind of like the takeaway of the case.
And I don't want to say that as like a
as like taking responsibility away from him, right, because he
did this horrible, horrible thing, right, But I can under
stand how the pressure to provide weighed on him so
heavily that he did this horrible, horrible thing right, right.

(01:01:10):
He was described so afterwards like all of his like
immediate friends and family were like so surprised and shocked,
like they couldn't believe that he had done this. But
then when they looked a little further into his past
when he was in school. When he was in school,
he was a bully. Okay, he bullied people, and he
was people described him as a narcissist, as very controlling really,

(01:01:33):
And then as they got even closer than like maybe
his like party acquaintances, found out that he had hit
his wife at least once. Okay, that people knew about Jesus.
And you know, if you think about the themes of familicide,
it's all about power and control. How much he tried

(01:01:53):
to control that final situation, even like blocking the gate
so that the firefighters couldn't do their job, and it's like, bro,
you're dead anyway. He wanted all of the creditors and
stuff to get nothing. He didn't want anyone to get
any of his property, any of his stuff, any of
his Ustin Martin's or his horses which would have probably
sold for a lot of money, none of it. And
he didn't want his wife to have it, and he
didn't want his child to have it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Wow, he's a winner. Yeah, he's a winner, Winter Winner.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Chicken dead. So that is the story of the famili side,
the family murders of Chris Foster. Wow, that is wild.
Isn't that an awful one? That's awful. Yeah, stressed me out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
So when you are with your family at Thanksgiving this year,
put down the accelerant, be thankful no one is trying
to kill you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Yeah, I guess. Gott yeah, gosh. And you know what,
maybe sit around the turkey and check out this podcast. Yeah. Hello,
This is Margot P. And this is Margo D.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
And we are the Margos.

Speaker 6 (01:03:03):
Logos co hosts of the Book Versus Movie podcast. We
are the podcast that talks about films that are adapted
from books. We read the book, we watch the movie,
and then we decide which we like better, the book
or the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Now, I know what you guys are gonna say, dug,
the book is always better than the movie, to which
we always reply, have you ever read Johns Jobs.

Speaker 6 (01:03:23):
We are not film experts or literary geniuses.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Nope, We're just two friends who like to chat about
books and movies.

Speaker 6 (01:03:30):
We really like to go for a deep dive into
the history of the book and the background of the author,
and the trivia from the movie set.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
And most of all, we just like to have fun,
so we never take ourselves or the books or movies
too seriously.

Speaker 6 (01:03:40):
You can find us wherever you sign up for your
podcast under the name book Versus Movie, and on social
media you can find us at book Versus and Movies.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
You just spell it all out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Hope you check us out soon.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Well, that has been our episode. This week is a
cheerful one. Yes, so much, Oh cheerful. I'm really glad
to be back, be too, with a much needed break,
but it was almost just as busy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
So back again.

Speaker 5 (01:04:08):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
We'll be here before the holidays. Yeah, the new year.
It's almost twenty twenty six. Eh, that doesn't even seem
like a real number, It doesn't. That's gross, it doesn't.
Uh yeah. So yeah, do you have any final thoughts?
Don't we kill people? Cool?

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
The end? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Cool?

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Yeah? Cool?

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
That was it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
If you enjoyed this episode, you can find more just
like this at bad Taste podcast dot com. Our sound
and editing is by Tiff Folman. Our music is by
Jason Zasheskida Enigma. This has been the Bad Taste Crime podcast.
We will see you in two weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Good no E.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Along the Highway.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
I think it was as if the way that people
watched over its town, the beach together line out seem
really hard to believe the words in some form or
another