Five and Dive, Episode 459: A Signature Show

In Episode 459, Patrick, Jeffrey, and Craig chat about foot injuries and mysterious autographs and then discuss five mostly baseball topics.

1. Tinker, Devers Askance: Rafael Devers is a designated hitter, just ask him. Is it time for another Alex Cora team dinner?
2. Ascent into Madness: The Rockies have a new manager (who was their third base coach) and a new bench coach (who is literally Clint Hurdle).
3. Around the Horn: Cade Horton debuts, Jordan Lawlar is about to re-debut, and the new Pope is a baseball fan.
4. What to Watch: A good slate of games really, and also White Sox/Reds.
5. Bring us your nicknames for players whose last names begin with 'M.'

Five and Dive is listener-supported, you can join our Patreon at patreon.com/fiveanddive. If you want to get in contact with the show, the e-mail address is [e-mail].     
                                     
Our theme tune is by Jawn Stockton. You can listen to him on Spotify and Apple Music  

Spotify: http://bit.ly/JawnStockton_Spotify
Apple Music: http://bit.ly/JawnStockton_AM

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to episode four fifty nine of five and Dive.
It is Monday, May eleventh. I am your host, Greg Goldstein,
joined as usual by Patrick Tubuke and Jeffrey pattern Nostro. Gentlemen,
how was your weekend?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I almost blake smelled myself. I have take many different conversations.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Actually, is this breaking a toe?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, stepping out of the shower?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
No?

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Well, or like moving furniture?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
We or are you just try and throw something into
a trash can and accidentally hit somebody and heard them.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
That's more of a joke, Kelly.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, that's during one of the six times my child
came into the office to interrupt my podcast recording. Yesterday,
she showed me a twister, you know, like the spinny thing.
I don't know where she found it. We have twister
somewhere in the house, but she just found the spinny
thing and wanted to show it to me and spun it.
Why lunch a twister? Spinner? Where if you watch what

(01:01):
hand on what color? Yes, the game Twister?

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yes, if we're talking about the movie, yeah, Bill Paxton.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
No, she brought him Phil Text brought in Bill Paxton. Yeah, dark,
that's dark. Yeah. He had some thoughts on Jonah Tong's
five season. But anyway, I forgot that she just left
it on the floor. And then I was coming into
the office last night stepped on the twister.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
You spun right foot pain.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, so I managed to keep myself upright, but I
like kicked one foot into the other, basically into my heel,
and like broke my toenail on my big toe. I'd like,
I had to trim down the toenail, put some peroxide
on the bleeding toe, and yeah, but I seem to
be okay, it's a little sore, but it's kind of kind.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Of a soft brag about how how hard your toe,
your heel is.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, I did not drop a vase on it at least. Okay,
my heel is very hard. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
As for me, it was Mother's Day. I went to
my parents. We went to a small village in a
town called Langley, which is one of those villages in
an island that doesn't really need to exist, but it does
and it's nice. And I bought two baseballs.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
You live in the UK now, you describing it like
you live? Yeah, you got to solve yeah, which is a.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Good credit scene. So yeah, I got two baseballs. They
had autographs on them, and I didn't know what they were,
but they were official baseballs, and so I thought, hey,
there's got to be real autographs. So I'm for ten dollars.
I will buy these and then later figure out who
they are and have a little fun game. You know.
It's like it's like a it's kind of like a
word search for.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
It's not the game for the podcast thing.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Actually be such a different, different definition of what a
fun game is.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's like a scavenger hunt bad handwriting.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
So, so I calculated what three of the four signatures
were and one was easy because it was the Mariner
moose and the other two uh and two of them,
well it says moose, I mean, but that wasn't the one.
I was puzzles that much. Well, I can check it.
I kind of doubt it though. So one of them
was former Mariners outfielder slash failed prospect Shane Monahan, and

(03:12):
one of them was somehow roll Lebanyas. Despite the fact
that there are only two letters in his signature. It's
hard to sign a ball, you know. You know, I'm
not gonna his His signatures on his cards are better,
but it's that's a good sitting.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
It's a good good signature.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The last one I cannot figure out.
So this ball is from nineteen ninety four to nineteen
ninety nine because it's got you know, Gene but Digg's
signature on it. He was the last dayl president. It
is on Shane Monahan, same ball as Shane Monahan who
played for the Maryors in nineteen ninety eight ninety nine,

(03:48):
and it is The signature has a B and then
some letters, and it has the number fifty eight.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Fairly easy to track down, you'd think, think a lot
of information. You've got like, yeah, four of the six
letters and numbers of the license plate here, like the issue.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
The issue is that the Mariners at that point had
never had a fifty eight. And then like, okay, so
it's like a spring training guy, it's got it's a
spring training.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
I'm like coach, but a coach maybe.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah. I looked at the coaches. I looked at the
spring training rosters from eight ninety nine. I could probably
go back nice that Mount Shaning and him got some
invites before.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
He Yeah, did you say had letters?

Speaker 3 (04:27):
There's a B. There's a B. It starts with the
B and what looks like, Yeah, it starts with the B.
The I looked at all opposing players. This is early
so the fifty eights were common. I don't think they
were still common, but uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Big reliever, big reliever vibes.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah it does my My My thinking though, is it's
probably a spring change jersey. That that said, if you
were in spring training and you were in fifty eight,
I don't know if i'd mark fifty eight believer.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
NRI that didn't end up making the team.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Do you go identify yourself by your spring training jersey
number because you're not going to keep it. You're either
going to get a good number or you're not gonna
be wearing the number anymore.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
I'm throwing my hat on. Bob Wells changed his number.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Bob Wells, all right, he was on He was on
the ninety ninety four Mariners.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
He was born in ninety four through ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, he's stick around.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
I can see. Yeah he's wrong.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
I think I actually searched for his name. I think
Bob Wells put a little a little too much pride
in his w's compared to the person signing this.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Mall, where's worth in the season. I'm looking ninety eight
negative point.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, Bob, Bob Wells has a very loopy signature. Bob
Wells has a signature like a guy doesn't have to
sign cards that often. He puts a lot more effort,
a lot more, a lot more ink into that signature
than I think somebody who has to sign a lot.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, all right, anyway, we won't I won't belabor this.
I have other guesses, but I won't believer this.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Maybe he had, Maybe he had. Leo Messi's brother signed
the ball for him.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
All I'll say here is to add to banter.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
As I went to the movie theater for the second
time since twenty twenty this year, this this weekend, and
I saw The Accountant too. This is where the film heads. Yeah, honestly, had.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
A had a great time.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
I'm not going to tell you it's a it's a
good movie. I would never tell you that.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I figured out in my head on my film Craig
went cinema, Craig went to a movie with this kid,
or Craig went to Centers. But I did not have
like Accountant two on the Oh.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, no, I'm a big fan of the Accountant that's
fine Number, which is an even worse movie than this one,
but one I really enjoy, and uh, this is much
more cogent as far as as like plots go.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
It seems like it would be a bad thing for
the general vibe of The account.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, but they they it's still good. They did a
good job with what they were doing. But it's yeah,
it is.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Like, I don't know watching the I've only seen the
trailer for it, and the last uh thirty seconds to
three minutes of The account in one seventeen hundred times
before AW Dynamite.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
And before aw it was always.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
A leading for AW Dynamite back when I watch AW Dynamite.
But like from the trailer, it seemed a little too
like serious action film. I mean there's a lot of
signe that I'm yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
There's a lot of silk, but I think there are.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
No trailers cans that way.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Uh so if you if you liked The Accountant, you're
gonna like this. It is less it's like slightly less stupid,
which is there's a.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Loss again, I don't yeah exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Because there was an earnestness in its stupidity in the
first one. But yeah, it's just less convoluted, I guess
as a plot, and it's still it's not like a
normal straightforward plot though. Sure anyway, I enjoyed it. Let's
get to uh, let's get to the show. Our first topic,

(07:58):
Tinker Devers ascants. You were so excited to bring this
one back.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
I was.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
I thought this was a one on its iought I
really thought this was going to be a one and done.
I was happy with it when I did it.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
But here it is, and and we're back. Because uh,
this may sound familiar to people, Raphael Devers does not
want to change his position.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
Tristan Cassas blew out his.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Knee and is done for the year. Raphael Devers is
currently the Red Sox DH seems likely to remain the
Red Sox.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
H Well, I feel like when the first Tinkers Devers
the scans happened, they say, well, we don't consider him
at first basement, like he's just gon.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
He has basically never played first base.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
He's never played any other he's never dged.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
Well, I think it's a different.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Suore No idea.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
This was not saying that there isn't a There is
a DH penalty, as we know, but like you don't,
you're not causing errors by playing indeed, right, he's hit.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Before, yes, yes, and he's hitting right now.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, yes he is, but he has not ever played
first base. He's also like six foot.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, Like his footwork was not his best trait at
third base either.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
It's it is both a natural transition to think he
could play first base because he's played third, even if
it's badly, and because he's not good at third. And
it's like, oh, well, those guys end up at first base.
But like there are a number of reasons he now,
look the Dodgers run out he k hernandez Ature who
does have good footwork but is not a not a
tall target at first base, so it doesn't always matter.

(09:42):
But I'm just saying there are some markers that that
work against him.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Sure, and like six foots like six foot's like probably like.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
But he's also like isn't he list? What is he listed?

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Six listed? I think he's probably six feet but.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, Roman Gonzalez also sixte Yeah you have.

Speaker 4 (10:01):
To he's played all right, like he's right.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Like the other thing is like you're listed is listed
six foot?

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah? You can do the It's incredibly hard thing but
also like he's never played the position you're asking him,
just like like work on some scoops and in field outfield,
and then roll him out there like it could go
very bad.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
I mean, like the Rangers are playing Jack Peterson at
first base, and I remember when the Dodgers were like,
maybe Jock can play first base and he extremely could not.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
What's happened with Mike Piazza too, Like the Mets tried
him at first and it was just an absolute disaster.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
So there are guys that doesn't work. I don't I
imagine Raphael Devers could make it work, sure, but it's
also I don't know if he could make it work
in season immediately.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, right, I.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Mean that's a different it's a different thing than asking
him to go from third to d H in spring training.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
No less, right, Like it is a different askue.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Now, I don't think the Red Sox are wrong to
ask him, but yeah, the.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Issue as they actually asked him is the other thing
that's unclarity.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
So I mentioned this on online because I thought they
had asked him, and I thought it was weird that
he was then going to the media basically pissed off
about it.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
And I thought like they should stop.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
I understand where he's coming from, but also he should
should probably doing that in Boston.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Well, especially because I thought the team, the team should
have just said we're not we're not. They might have
asked him, but they should say we're not asking him,
like it's not an open question anymore to do it,
and like we don't consider we're not considering it anymore,
and it's done. And I did have someone tell me

(11:40):
because I had not seen it. I had someone replied
to me and say they did say that. They said,
we're not, like it's not an open question anymore, and
we're not we're not doing that, and so like to
their credit if if that's the case, and again I
hadn't seen it, aside from someone telling me this, Like
then I don't really know that they're wrong to have
asked him to to see if they can, because look,

(12:01):
they're they're maybe good. We said, maybe they get Roman
Anthony in here. Maybe Masataki Yoshida comes back to DH
because he can't throw right now.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Right. He can hit, but he can't throw right.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
They have he's not evenly playing though, as the other thing.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
But I'm just saying they have options that could work
at DH that don't work at first base if if
Devers Devers is one of those now, but if he
was willing to do it, I don't really have a
problem with them exploring those options.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
But it is.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's not good that this is the second time in
three months. I mean going back to what we said
the first time around, like, isn't this shouldn't Alex Kora
be managing this? Yes, then this is why you brought
back the guy who.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Look, I think there is something. I think Craig Breslo
is a good GM so far. I think there is
Raphael Devers seems to have a different well, I think
there is something lost when you jump a guy three
levels like this and he has no experience managing people,
right Like he was just like the pitching consultant for
the Cubs and now he's got you know and that Yeah,

(13:08):
he played like he's not only he's not a player.
I shouldn't understand some of the dynamics here, but you know,
he hasn't had to.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Relievers can be different, although they can be they get
they get, they get you know, particular about roles too.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, and just I think part of the the wider
issue here is like they didn't have a backup plan
for first base, and look, there's not be a good
backup plan for.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
All of spring training talking about that, saying they have
all these options and it's all middle infield and outfield,
and they just it was such a weird pile up
of of.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
And look, I get that, you're not, like you're not
just going to have a backup first basement on the roster.
That's not how those rosters are built nowadays, right, But
not having Dominic Smith back right, or like Joey Manesis
was out there until close to the like again, not
guys you really want starting, but guys that have played
first base before.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
And a good option in this case would be like
like the Brewers have Jake Bowers.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah they should go trade for Jake Bowers is what they're.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Talking about, a trade.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
But I'm saying, like, have a Jake Bowers around, yeah, right, Like.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
They have all right, but they don't have it. They
don't because the roster, the position player roster is actually
pretty cramped right now. They don't really have that option,
you know, they don't have like I don't think Connor
Wang can do it, right, They don't have like that
catcher that can play first base but can also hit
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Like sheet I really wanted to and just nobody asked.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, but it's like tough, right, like you don't have
to throw right, like the Dodgers have had to play
Kekey Hernandez at first right because they don't want to
play Monsy there or whatever.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
But I assume that's because, well, it's like messying with
Monsey at third base where he's like tolerable now and right,
like the massive injury at first.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Right, and you'd have to really like there's a lot
more moving parts there right, play like you can play
he get thirty, Yes that's true, or Chris Tiler or whatever.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
But I think my guess is on that is with Muncy,
it's the elbow injury. Yeah, that's that's he's never really
been the same since.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Or you know, if you know, if the Mets, if
Pete a Lonzo goes down, like look, the metsican move
Mark Biento's there, right, like they have Yep, they have options,
you know they have. And he has played some first
base before. I don't know if to be good there,
but it's also like not something he's never done, right,
I don't even know who are the other good first
baseman now that I'm you know, it's like Paul Goldschmidt

(15:41):
gets injured. I know that he's been very good for them,
right they can they can play Ben Rice there, they
can play Tody Cody Bellinger there, like like often there's
like guys with some first base and the rests just
didn't have Like I like, Contest himself is a guy
who was injured a lot of last season, hasn't really
established himself as a starter, right, so and some of
that's injuries. That's just weird, you know, sequencing of his

(16:02):
performance in the majors. I think he's probably a good
major league first baseman who's bad to start the season.
But like there's no yeah, there's no backstop here. I'm like,
I don't even mind Romy Gonzalez. But then you should
have just said it was Romy Gonzalez.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, I again, you know, this goes back to I
remember when we talked about this the first time, you know,
I read I talked about Joe Sheian's newsletter and he
talked about you know, kind of said like that's what
the money's for, right, like you like and and Joe
wrote about this over, you know, since since this became
a story and kind of said, you know, this is

(16:40):
different circumstances. It is in season, it is learning a
position rather than than going to DH and all this.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
Kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
And again I have I have maybe less of a
problem with them asking him, sure, hey, are you willing
to do it? But once he says no, it shouldn't
get out there. And the question to me then is
why is he still going out there?

Speaker 4 (17:02):
Henry?

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, her more but not giving quotes when asked. But
he's around more.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
But you know, it's it's one of those things where
like I don't know exactly. I'm not trying to apportion
blame exactly, but like I'm interested in where the breakdown is.
It seems to be with Breslo and maybe with with
Henry to whatever degree.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Well, Cora has to manage this, has to call Devers
into his office and say, look, you want to play
first base. That's fine if they ask you about it,
because they're going to here's what you said.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
I know, I know a lot of people are out
here saying, you know, that's what the money's for. Basically,
you get paid a lot and the team needs it
and blah blah blah. But you know, if I you know,
if I told Patrick tomorrow he's writing about prospects the
rest of the year, that's not what he was.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
Hired to do.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
And that's not what he's you know, that's not I'm
not saying he can't write about a prospector or whatever,
but like, you know, that's.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
Not what he is.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
It's it. It meaningfully changes his job detail right, and
it's still writing. They're still a writer. What are you
complaining about?

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, exactly. But also this isn't even what they're doing
because they're not going to him first. They're floating, yes,
the idea as they do. It's like Craig going on, well,
I guess, I don't know, is that true? Like the
doing we don't know when they went to I don't know.
So the thing is that they went What I've heard
is that they went to him and said, no, we're

(18:36):
not moving you, and this is also true the offices
and said no we're not moving you to the h
we're not thinking about getting pregnant, you're you're a third placement,
and then went out and showed interest.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
They were bragmant until the price was what it was right,
and like, look.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
But they didn't go back. Yeah, yeah, this cous.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Both ways, right, Like, yeah, that's what the money is for.
You're also paying this guy three hundred million dollars. Like
at that point he has the right to be in
the loop a little more on these things, right, Like
because you're you're stuck with him, you're not moving that contract. Well,
we don't want him to be content.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
But I think a lot of fans have the outlook.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yes, no, they absolutely do.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Once you're paid to do and this isn't right, this
isn't whatever. The team can kind of tell you what
to do, and I just would I would say like
ask that. I would ask people to think about like
if you were just you know, you're you're paid to
do something in your profession, and like if if you
were told you're now.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
Doing something totally different.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
I mean it's like in the same genre, but a
totally different job, and just do it now.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
You know it's I'm not saying you wouldn't do it.
Maybe you would.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
There are baseball players who would do it.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Well. The other thing would also maybe say like, hey,
what the f.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
This isn't Andrew Miller, you know, moving to more of
a fireman role, right, because he doesn't the saves to
make money anymore. He's doing the same because like Dever's
money is locked in, right. But again it's like playing
for space is a different job, right, and like there's risks, but.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
I'm saying like, I'm sure there are guys who would
do it, yeah, right, who would who would take there?

Speaker 3 (20:14):
There are guys who will take contracts that pay him
pay them below.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
But I'm saying about it, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
There are there.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Are big contract guys who are willing to to.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
You know, look, we don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's a little different because Mooki seems to want to
be on the infield, right, but.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
He kind of also demanded he play shortstoped like, which
is like.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Right, again, you get sweat.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
I mean, like that's the other part of this is
to your point, Jeff, like he's he's gotten the big
the big contract.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
He's supposed to be the face of the franchise.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Right and look at these guys all have ego and
Rafael Devers sees himself as the third basement of the
Boston Red Sox. I don't know if you specifically promised
that by him, Bloom during the or John Henry during
the negotiats. But that's how he sees himself, right, and
he had no reason like to not see himself like
that until they signed Alex Bragman and they like it's
gonna only be one year because he's gonna opt out

(21:09):
the way he's hitting, and you're kind of left with
this also makes.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
It a good contract for that, I mean, like he
you know.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Where they're going now have to replace Ox Bragman next year,
but they will.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
But that, I mean, that's that is Creig those problem.
But they the rewards, right, I mean.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
No, absolutely, And like again, like I get that the
players just you know, the players not in the really
shouldn't have a ton of you know, he shouldn't be
picking players like Aaron Judges, right, Like you don't really
want Devors doing that. But yeah, like you gotta you

(21:45):
didn't sign the contract, you didn't make any promises that
there are promises made, but you're walking into the situation
where you took the job, right, Yeah, Like part.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
Of the job is you took those circumstances.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
And and again like if you want to work to
make him change or to change those circumstances, but like
do the work, do the works not, which is not just.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Also and this has been true for the better part,
I mean basically my entire lifetime. Everybody needs to stop
talking to the Boston media as much as they do.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
But uh yeah, I mean that is and that and
that's the part. Yeah, yeah, I guess it.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Is really on both sides on this Oneeah yeah, me me,
And that's that's the part.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Of was like t Dever's credit, he's on the record,
like talking face to face and putting him putting whatever
he thinks out there, like with his name on it,
and not that he's in front of the choice.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
But right, you mean to the media.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, today it's one of those things where we get
caught where like I say, like we want these things.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Right like John Henry is not standing in front of
any locker ever basically.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
But but it also seems like the fact that we're
getting this thing that I supposedly want seems like indicative
of a of a problem, a problem yeah right, But
it could also be like maybe Devers is somewhat a
little like unreasonably pissed off, Like there's pissed off that's
within reason. And then it's like, well if they said

(23:16):
if maybe Alex Square said, hey, we're gonna ask you this,
no big deal, we're gonna consider it final if you
said no, whatever, and if he's still pissed about it,
and when you know, maybe that's.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Not reasonable, Maybe he doesn't maybe doesn't trust them trust
their word after the bregmant stuff either. Yeah, and maybe
that's reasonable, maybe that's not. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Also absolutely also correct, Yeah, I don't. It's one of
those ones where you don't necessarily know without the TikTok.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Of like yeah, I will also point out for all
the kuffel over the quote like I don't know if
it was a translation issue or something. But at the
end of this he said, I'll play, I'll get the
I'll play wherever they want me to, basically, which is
what he said the first time too. And then he
went and the aged right like.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, I mean I think it's a little like I'll
do what you want, but I'm not.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, I'm pissed. Yeah, like whatever, fine, but this is
BS kind of all right, do we have anything else
unless Patrick, I know, talked over you a little.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
All right, let's go to another situation.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well, this is more at Patrick's Alley.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
So we are at ascent into madness the Rockies. Uh,
directly speaking of saying one thing and then immediately going
and doing the other. Uh.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Bill Schmidt had given Bud Black the vote of confidence.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Dread vote of confidence.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
So I was out yesterday. I was out, I was,
you know, buying baseballs. I saw there was people talking
about Bud Black, and I went and looked on ESPN,
and it's like the first thing I saw was Schmidt
says Bud Black's job is safe. And I was like, oh,
people are oh, we're really we're really leaning into the
vote of confidence now. No, he'd already been hired before

(24:54):
read the vote of confidence. Uh, he was very confident
for sixteen hours.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, and they want the game.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
They fired him after a win. Yeah, yeah, there's someone
that win did follow twenty one Yeah, lost.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
After twenty one to three double header loss, yes, or yeah,
it's they had lost. They had a negative thirty nine
run differential in three games. Yeah, but you're supposed to
come on, we learned this from Gray Fold last year.
You're supposed to have the losing streak. Let them win
the game, then lose one more.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yes, and then right, yes, they have they have a
minus one twenty eight run differential.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
I guess see, like I think they were they're traveling now.
I think they're traveling now. That's probably they didn't want
to get them on the plane and then fire them
after a Yeah game, I had to They don't want
to know the really Randolph.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, would anyone like to guess the next closest run differentially?

Speaker 2 (25:47):
It's like minus sixty, isn't it something fifty?

Speaker 4 (25:49):
I was going to say it is it is in
the sixties.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
Sixties it is.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
The Miami Marlins. Yeah, nine, and there are two other
teams in the sixties.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Well, no, I mean the Rockies are historically bad already.
We can just probably.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
It has reached the point where it is like back
to being fascinating again. And I'm kind of upset about
this because I'm I already did this.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, I said that.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
It was the wrong year.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
We should note that I believe it was Dick mon
Fords said in his little note app or whatever that.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
He didn't send everyone personalized emails.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's time to turn the page to the next chapter
in Rockies history. Here's Clint Hurdles.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Benure, is it.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Clint Hurdle hired a week ago. It's one of as
a hitting coach.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
They're absolutely going to hire Bud Black as a special
assistant this offseason. I'm always going to start the cycle again, Like.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
The Rocky story is one of those chooser and adventures.
We have to turn back to page four.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
We should know Warren Schaeffer is the new manager coach. Look,
he's been coach. He's been in their system managing for
a while. He was yarder. I know, he's the yard
goats man. He's been a manager there since he was
like twenty eight forty now had ten. Yeah, I think
he's probably just going to be the manager. Like I
know he's in room. But I think he's probably just.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Right.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
I think they did. But I think he's gonna I mean,
he was right there. I look, they're capable of going
and getting I don't even know, well wife.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Well, yeah, at the point, what's he up to Scout service.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
There's probably I don't know, I could they're capable of
like being like Troy to Lewitsky. Yeah, you specialized coaching
in the off season.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
I think's on the college staff.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
I mean it's no different than what the marriage Dan Wilson.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, how does that make
you feel?

Speaker 3 (27:53):
I hear about the bunts? I don't see the bunts?
Can I bringing him up?

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Brad hawp yank?

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Oh yeah, I mean stem is it's something.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
There is, by the way, a very big athletic article today.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
With some some quotes. It's you know there is.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Similar to Michael Lias blaying some injuries.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, I mean himself has been there for however, like
its just I like, there's no there's no point, like
it's not even so I don't want to be like
Craig can be like, well, mom, for it's old. He's
got to die at some point.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
But uh.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
No, he said about Jerry ryin Starff, just like his kids.
The pro scouting director exactly like business.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah I did.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
I did really like in this In this athletic article
they said, uh, the pro scouting director is Sterling mom Fort,
who happens to be the owner of.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
The to be.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
I don't know if anyone's familiar with George Carlin's happens.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
To be, but yeah, you can check that out. No,
the only the only solution to this since the you know,
the owner is not going to change you can't fire
like what you need here. The capitalism teaches us this
is this is a gas station selling six buck gas, right,
and you've just got to put up a gas station
on the other corner. You have to get people to
stop going to these games. The problem is that Rocky

(29:24):
the Rockies still sell. It's still will the stadium.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
What the it's twenty five thousand fans a night?

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Is it's for this article and it's.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Nineteenth in the league, which is like, yeah, and it's
given there.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
It's right, It's incredible.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
It also, I mean there's a lot of talk about
how like the atmosphere in the clubhouse is actually pretty light,
like it's.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
Not and I'm like, well that's maybe not good. I
mean like it.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
But it does go back to Bryan's quote right when
you sign, where it's like, well, when you lose, it's
like no big deal.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, apparently. I just think, you know, like if you
were in if you're in the entertainment industry in the
Denver area, you're gonna be like, well there is a
market here for.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
I've seen some like quotes going around from like I
don't just like Rocky's reddit or whatever, where it's just
kind of like Rockies fans seem like fascinated by this
in a way like White Sox fans weren't last year.
Like it's just like this is like and it's it's
bad in a different way than the White Sox were too.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, well it is. It's more spectacular.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
It is. It's more spectacular. It's a good way to
put it.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
And course helps with that, like you know, like you
gotta if you're a roller Derby, like get roller Derby
going in Denver, like you have it. You have a
window here, get a big majong circuit going.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I think I'm last expansion team like anything.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Really, I think I saw what you were saying, what
you're talking about, Jeff, I think, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Commons on Purple Row, That's what it was interesting.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
I've been in this team in a while and and
I think I think they're in a novelty stage.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
And my thought is like, let's check in in July
and see if you're still fascinated by this. That's fine
because it will not be interesting. But there are there
are It is a grind. I'm not saying it's it's
there is a difference to to the White Sox yeah
from last year too. I'm not I grant that, but

(31:31):
it will stop being fun.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, though, I feel like the White Sox were more
technically competent at playing baseball, which is a weird thing
to say, but like that it is. It's less spectacular.
It was just like, oh, here comes a reliever to
give up a back breaking three run home run again
kind of it was it was within the it was like,
you know, it was a first percentile outcome, but was
in the bounds of the out Like the Rockies aren't

(31:54):
even on the charge. They're like Jeremy Barman. They're like
the little dot I got died on the end.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
I also, I guess in a lot of ways you
would think it's it's it would maybe cut the other direction,
but like they've just seen so many of these guys
for so long, right like the like it's just Kyle
Freeland again, so like him, Antonio Senzatela again, it's Herman

(32:20):
Marquez again. And it's like, well, I've seen them, I've
seen it's all. I've seen them be pretty those three
guys I just named, i've seen them be pretty good.
I've seen them be pretty bad. I don't know that
I've ever seen them be this bad, right, So it's
like a new thing for an old like a player
you've come to know, whereas like the White Sox were

(32:43):
not there weren't a number of them around.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
But like it was, it was.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
It was also the end of a really bad locker
room vibe to for years years.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, and you also, I think that there's the Crochet
effect here, which is that you had two good baseball
players the team to really throw the rest of the
team into relief. Right.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
It was also like, I know, like the Rockies are
only like six or seven years from making the playoffs.
The White Sox were a better team more recently, and
it was like the crash out right.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
But like every you know, you'd watch Crochet give up
one run in seven innings and lose, and you'd.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
Be like, this is what's like, here comes dominic Leon domination.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Yeah, like in Colorado, the pictures deserve to be failed
by the hitters, and the hitters deserve to be failed
by the pictures.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Speaking of that, I just it occurred to me next
Rockies manager Papaalaka, Oh.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, well he was just hired away by Cincinnati, right,
I believe, no doubt he's like a big he's a
relatively big name in the coaching.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Is he already? I mean it makes sense.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
Because Matt true Blood just wrote about him.

Speaker 5 (33:53):
I mean it makes sense in in, Uh, he was
at Cleveland, okay, and he was just I think he
was hired away to Cincinnati and he just in in
this week's game day Cleveland versus Nationals.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
We'll never I'll never get away from Papa.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, Pat the bat? You did you have written Hereorge
Jordan Pacheco is here? Oh yeah, he's a hitting coach now, yeah,
because he was in Triple A?

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Was he?

Speaker 2 (34:20):
I think so?

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yeah, I think we talked about him as the Triple
A wed.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, the the quintessential like rock like talk about the
Red Sox first base catcher guy, right, yeah, catch a
little bit.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Also, this is this is now going back. But did
you want to talk about you wrote an article about
a Red Sox that ran today. Did you want to
talk I don't know really, Okay, Well we'll come back
to that. I don't do we have anything else on
on this because if when we're done, I would like
to close with a quote from I keep referencing this

(34:58):
article to Cody Steven Hagen piece from the Athletic Patrick,
do you have a final word here? All right, I'm
gonna read you two paragraphs, one of which is one sentence.
Up on the rooftop Wednesday, one young woman pulled out
her phone to snap a picture not of the scenic view,
but rather of all the empty seats down below. The
day's announced attendance was eighteen eight hundred and fifty five.

(35:20):
The number of people in the seats and the amount
of fans actually wearing purple and cheering for the home
team appeared much smaller. As the woman snapped her photo,
a friend uttered, that's suppressing. On that note, let's take
a break and we'll come back for the rest of
the show. Welcome back to episode four hundred and fifty

(36:01):
nine of five and Dive. We were going around the
horn in segment three. Uh, right after we finished recording.
I believe the Cubs settled on Kate Horton.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I mean it was Kate Horton versus Chris flex and
so fair enough.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Atomic but whatever the meme is, atomic bomb versus hydrogen
bomb versus coffee baby.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
Yeah, Caate Horton. And he was fine, he was fine.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
He rolled a slider to Brett Baby right.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
He came up a three run homer.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
But he looked fine, Like the breaking balls looked splashed.
That's yeah, it nice allowding.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, he seemed to be fine. Apparently also Jordan Lawler,
I missed that.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yep, he's getting called up in is Tintawa no idea? Okay,
like the Rocky the Diambaxicon out of their way to
like not roster Jordan Lawler for eighteen months. I know
it was hurt for a large chunk of that, but
I don't know how they decided it's a Jordan Lawler time.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
Somewhere they felt like he was ready.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Okay, me is the most hits and triple A so
fair enough, granted playing in Reno. But still and Patrick
remind me I don't have to write a call up
for him because he was up in twenty twenty three
and I already did.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Sound yes, you have already.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
That's a This is from my kis in.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
I told Jordan that we signed per Domo because of him.
It was not to black him off. I want them
to be together. This will be a very good team
with both of those guys on the same team. I'm
not necessarily worried about who the short stuff is.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
No, did you did you well?

Speaker 4 (37:31):
And good? Tell marts hey he can.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Play the outfield, but yeah, it was like not a
good outfield. No, you can play Lawlor at third and
sour Is at d H like you got Nailer's only
had for It's all a little weird. But I just
want to say, for that quote, did you give that
quote to the press like I asked? Yeah, boss, I
made it real sexy, just like you wanted.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
I want them together.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, I'm trying to see. Yeah, it's just I don't see, uh,
only an actor. Yeah, so they don't have a corresponding move. Yeah, yeah,
Tim Tawa is there, so that's an easy.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Sure switch, but it doesn't how much so you get
them solve the roster? Yeah, I don't know. It's really weird.
I mean, it's fine. He really should be up at
some point around now, but also.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
I don't know. Yeah, so I don't do you have
any expectations on I don't even want to throw out
anything on either of these guys, like like a find
of healthy because he's.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, hard's gonna liver or die on how good the
breaking balls are working they're both very good breaking balls.
You know, he's got a little little cut fasts. It's
a it's like a thirteen zero fourteen zero fastball, so
it's he throws hard mid nineties. It cuts a little bit.
I think guys will hit it some. But yeah, I
think he's a health permitting he is like a number

(38:52):
three starter. Like it's just you know, he had a
large shoulder. He had like a scapular thing last year
or something. I've read the exact nature of the shoulder injury,
but it was a shoulder injury. Uh yeah, I think
he's probably gonna be up as long as a Managa's
on the I l it's a little weird that used
after Brad Keller as an opener and like just let
him pitch, But.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, that is that is a little weird.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Gun.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
Would you like to chime in on Brad Keller what
you wrote today?

Speaker 2 (39:18):
You're really good.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
I actually really liked this.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Uh yes, So I just did a post on basically
guys that we guys I've been sarcastic about in the past,
and so I wrote about Sigano, and I wrote about Keller,
and I wrote about Eric Wagoman because you know, yeah.
I wasn't sarcastic about Ericquaman because no one bothered to
talk about it. But I was just like, let's use
an opportunity to talk about.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
I mean, we definitely like played guess the Angels starting
line up with Eric Wagoman in at some point last
year on the show.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
I think probably, oh yeah, I mean I I said,
this is a made up person.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I wrote, you know, six seven
hundred words from now, So it's about Brad Keller and
how Brad Keller is like somehow kind of good now
despite the fact that he almost certainly everybody would have
thought he was retired this year.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Relievers.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, Relievers, it turns out, you know, like seven hundred
words and then just at the end, every pitch is
three miles fast, faster than it used to be. Yeah,
and that's all you need to do. As long as
you can get three times, you can do that.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah. Yeah, so like weighted ball drills or whatever medicine
ball things from two thousand and eleven, then yeah, you go.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
But yeah, but even last weekend I joked that I
looked at the step Pro leaderboards and the top three
pitches if you have through twenty five plus pitches. The
top three pitches are worldest Jaman sinker Finglis Baptista splitter,
and Brad Keller sweeper.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
It's a really good sweeper now, Like it's like really good.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, checks out.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
I also would say just on the Horton front, like
if he if he shows, you know, I don't know
the competence. I'm gonna say, like there's a to me,
like even if Imanaga comes.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Back Colin Ray and still in this rotation, I think,
isn't he.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, And I think there's like either Colin Ray or
Ben Brown you could yeah shunt back to the bullpen
and and just leave Horton in there.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
So I think there's a chance longer. I just don't
know how.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
I don't know what the Lawlers, like Lawler's Lawler to
me has been over ranked by other places because I
just don't like it all looks great from like a
traditional ice scouting thing, but like it's all very extremely
average across the board when he actually look at under
the hood.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, I mean we've we've put him as high as fourteen.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah. I just don't like some of.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
That and it is just the prospect.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah, and it's like it's more, it's pretty optimized, and
it's a good park for him to be optimized. Then,
like I think, go hit Homer's I don't know how
good a hitter he actually is, but like I think
it's again we ranked him a high as fourteen. I
think he's probably going to be above average, majorly regular.
But it's been a little I know, as.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
We learn at the Red Sox, somebody will get hurt
in the next three days since entire problem.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Hi, yeah, I mean del Marte gets hurt too, right,
Like it's not like yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah, they could have just waited for the next time.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, yeah, I mean they had the opportunity earlier.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I guess he's ready now.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Yes, now is the time for him.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
And yes, I mean he was up in twenty twenty three,
mind you, but yeah, well but yes, but yeah, yeah,
the time is now. The time is now.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yes, the time is also.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Now for some Dodgers to get checked out by needle elatroche,
which usually precedes a surgery. Blake Snow has not thrown
the ball for three weeks, or or when he did,
it was still sore, so that he is not bounced
back up shoulder shoulder soreness. I guess he's he's getting
another look. I guess we'll see what he got an

(42:51):
injection that seemed to do nothing, so we'll see where
it goes. Tyler Glass. Now, from what I read, it sounded.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
More like, uh, this is he is throwing.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, he's been throwing and has seemed to be fine,
and this is to get cleared to go on a rehabit.
So that's all fine, you know. I look, Ben Casparis
has been solid.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
In him, that's the best record in baseball.

Speaker 4 (43:21):
The most annoying whatever that.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
None of this matters.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
I Meanwhile, you know you've got another guy, another kid
on the farm. Kshaw.

Speaker 4 (43:31):
Yeah, rehab, he has run out of rehab starts.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
He's throwing eighty eight Yeah, that's I mean, that's around
where he was year.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
It's left handed, so just.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Think of him as an opener. He's throwing four innings
per start.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
Yeah, which is good because their bopen's not taxed at all.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
But I will say, just on the subject, like Tony
Gonsolin has just come out and looked pretty good.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Sure like Consolin.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Basically that's kind of unfortunately the ceiling.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
The Consolin went six innings in his first start. They
pulled him yesterday, I think with an off day coming
up for the bullpen. But they pulled him yesterday at
five innings and eighty something pitches. But he went relatively
deep in his first start. I don't know if there's any.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Oh wow, he struck out twenty one and sixteen. My
goodness you no, he told good again. He did not yesterday.
Yesterday he was not looking at sharp.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
But no, the Diamondbacks are are you know, better than
the Marlins or whoever?

Speaker 3 (44:41):
He struck out four? He struck out four and walked
to yesterday. It was fine in five innings. That's not Yeah,
that's bad. It's fine. It's fine.

Speaker 4 (44:48):
I do.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
I'm just on the other health front. We don't have
this in the dock. But uh, Corey Seeger is going
to be reevaluated.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yes, he's stut his back.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
He's back, and he wasn't only played in four or
eight games since.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
In fact, and only at d h Okay. So they're
they're going to be re evaluated. Sure, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Yeah, there's the Rangers on that said Josh Smith a
gift basket like everything.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
It's really funny that they're like good, like Jacob de
Gram has been like healthy and good, and Tyler Mowley
has been like healthy and good.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
They're getting like didn't we just talk about this last year.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
They're getting like ninetieth percentile pitching. I think I said
they did like sixtieth percent time. They're geting like ninetieth
percentile hitting and like pitching in like ten percent hitting.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
You have always been like one of the most boring.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Great Oh did you just write about No, Yeah, he
was in the in the in the in the box
four banner. Yeah yeah, really he's he's been remarkable.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
I thought you're getting a good Jonah Hines season. Yeah,
I mean like you're getting the Wyat lengthor breakout. We
just talked about this twenty one one.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, you know they're like it's like three games out
of first place in that division now because the.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Pat Corman three point one three. Al right, Yeah, he
keeps surviving, he keeps doing it. You never know when
he's gonna pitch because it's always a tv D.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Yeah, they got.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
They gotta check out. They got to give him the
anti venom and then if he's ready to go react
to it.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
In somehow less Uh, less optimistic news than a bunch
of guys being hurt and going to doctors.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
Lance mccullor's family.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
He noted this recently received death threats over his I
guess his performance.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
Or non performance or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
I admittedly did not article. I've we've seen this before,
right it is. I don't know, Jeff, you put this together.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
But yeah, I saw it and like he gave up
ten runs and I don't know if he gave a ball,
but there was a ten run first inning, right Like,
I'm sure they're you know, major League Baseball and whatever
in our net service provider and stuff like that will
investigate this, like look, this happens to players and managers
and front office people more than it should. Certainly, I mean,

(47:11):
any is too much, right, But like my my first inclination,
I don't know, I'll be born out in the investigation
is this is gambling related. I would because like the
Astro like then whatever, the Astros got blown out, they're
like they've it's May the May game, like they're over
five hundred, Like yeah, this has to be again. This

(47:33):
is We're gonna see more of this because of you
know this is yeah, somebody bet like the first five
under or whatever, right, and.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
What we needed was another reason for fans to think
that the baseball.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Players Fantasy baseball is like fantasy sports in general, it's
two but yeah, the game like now, it's like yeah,
and it's like instant too, right in a way that's
like fantasy baseball specifically.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
I just want to note before we move on, Patrick
Corbyn uh facing Antonio Sentateela and the Colorado Rockies visiting
the two and the Rockies two and seventeen the road
this year, so Corbin's here might get under three.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
I did not put this there spoiler alert. I did
not put this series in Stikos, although I certainly considered
it just like I want to Corbin's and the tele
Stiko's matchup. Don't get me here, that is, but like
I want to I want to pace myself on the
Rockies this year.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
And also like the Rockies are like Siko is just
supposed to be like ha ha, yes, the Rockies are
like no, yeah, seem to.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Be ha ha yes, and yet I will want.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
You don't have to be that.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
I will watch some of it. I've found myself continually
saying I'm not going to watch the Rockies and then
turning on them.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
You keep posting about them and I'm like, what are
you doing.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
It's like you've just been in fact that you had
last year and it's like it'll never leave you entirely.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
I mean I do.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
This is also not in the dock, but Evan Longoria
is officially retiring, to which I said, again, thought he
was retired. Yeah, I thought that had already happened. But
he will sign a one day contract.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
With the Race.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Sure, that's good time look and retire.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
I feel like if he had signed a one day
contract with the Giants, I would have also accepted that.
Like how many how many players could you have where
I guess we'll get to Carlton Fask in the Siko's
matchup here or no it's red it's not Red Sox,
But like, how many players could you just imagine signing
one day contracts with multiple teams and having it just
completely check out? Because I could see that Longory. You

(49:39):
think five years so you can he was gonna retire
as a Giant. He was good in those five years,
like he was like it was I don't.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
Know, he was not that good.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Sorry, Well, it's like he just this reference war one
point six two point two zero point six. That was
twenty twenty one point seven zero point seven.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
Okay, all right, maybe not, I mean like it would
have I.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Was three, Like not awful, but like yeah, league average.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Offerense for the most part I have. I'm just I'm
just gonna throw this in there because we are a
match podcast. The updated ESPN twenty twenty five sty Young
predictor for the n L.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
The top three are Griffin Canning famously bad.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yes, Griffin Canning play homes okay, but Motos fourth okay,
Ben Ben Casparius seventh, oh hello, and Brandon Fought eighth.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Because apparently there are seventeen pitchers. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
And lastly, yeah, Patrick Patrick put in a sigh. Yeah,
the Pope is a baseball guy, a baseball guy.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
I'm happy for all the people who are happy about
the Pope being a baseball guy. This is this is yours,
this is not mine.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Look, I think it's kind of Look, obviously the Pope
means nothing to me as a non religious Jewish person,
but I think it's like they got him at the
at the two thousand and five Yeah, all right, I
think it shout out to the to the camera crew.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
Yeah for tracking that down.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
People are getting some good some good posts talk about it, right, Like.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Like everything else on the internet, the the volume of
jokes rises to meet the quality of the subject material,
to make sure that everything is perfectly you know, just.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Saying there's some sort of nash equilibrium to there is,
just we'll make sure we're exactly tired enough of anything
that's going on to notify the value of anything. I mean, look,
everything gets old fast, right or whatever, But like I
don't know, I mean, like there's something too I got.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
I got bored of it pretty quickly.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
But there is a novel to the to the idea
that like the Pope knows who Dwayne Wise is or whatever?

Speaker 4 (52:05):
Right, you know, that was like me and the.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
White Sox have had a lot of second base.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
And of course there was the whole thing did we
did we?

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Did it happen fast enough on the last pod that
like the Cubs tried to claim and claim.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
I think that's that is what it had just come
out while we were recording.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yeah, and then his brother was like, no, wrong, uh yeah, sure,
I don't know, it's fine, it's fine, you know, I
agree it's like not for me, but I also I
understand the.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Novelty to it and and it you know, maybe it's
a little bit cool. Sure that like.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
If there was a team in made of divine intervention,
you know, let's go to what to watch. I can
start us off. I was last of the document. I
tell you, this is a we've been saying a lot.
It's this is kind of an ugly Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
I thought they were actually like, there's no like great matchups,
but I thought there were a lot of like interest.
There were like three, four or five interesting matchups.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
To me, Yeah, I'm going to stick with some of
the drama going on in our first subject and recommend
the Boston Red Sox and the Detroit Tigers.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Ye I considered that one not not a great set
of pitchers. No, that's why I didn't end up.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Pet Dobbins is involved. There's a TBD involved. But you
do get Trek Schouoble in the Wednesday game that is
against Dobbins. It is not it is a six forty
start because they're yeah, six forty start, Tanner Howcken and
Jackson job in Today's in Monday's game, which is fine.

(53:45):
I guess you know, you potentially upside in the pitching there,
but these are just two good, competent to good teams,
decent chance you get a fair amount of offense.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
I don't know. I like both of these teams.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I'm interested in in a number of players there, and
then you get the added benefit of.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
The Dever storyline. So yeah, that's where I'm going with it.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
And possibly Rob ref Schneider at first base.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
I thought he was hurt. I thought, didn't he hurt him?

Speaker 2 (54:13):
I think I don't know he was hurt, but not
on the I l like on the right. I guess
it'll just be Abraham Toro.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Then yeah, god, wow, I thought was hurt. But maybe
I thought he was hurt.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Yeah, who knows, he's working through back spasms. Yeah, good
for your first to good stretching at first base.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Yeah, So I went with the Twins and Oriels.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
I considered this for yeah, I can I considered this.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
I was like, oh, no, one picked that, and then
I looked the doc at it.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Yeah there was Yeah, the Twins winners of eighth straight.
They so the Cardinals who also went eight straight. And
I also considered, we'll have a chance to take the
first nine game winning streak.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
The I would also point out, by the way, Patrick,
that that the Cardinals winning streak has propelled them into
second place.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Yes, yeah, they're five games back. Yeah, the Tigers good.
And also I don't really understand how the Twins have
either one eight game straight or are about five hundred
because they have like four hitters. But you know, like
one thing straight, like when else you're gonna watch the Twins.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
This is healthy.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Yeah. Also the Orioles and the Orioles we are in
We're very near put up or shut up range for
the Orioles, Like this is this is a series that
they kind of need.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
I think I've said that three times.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
By the way, one of the ways that Minnesota has
won eight straight is they beat Baltimore.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Yeah, three straight in that, which is also very funny.
So if you like that, there's a chance for that
happening game.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
I don't love all these like home and home a
week apart.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Yeah, give a chance to let people have a chance
to miss things. Well.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Also again like you're if you're catching a team bad,
like you're doing it twice right.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Yeah, it's there's also I think some comedic value. I
feel like in the pitching matchups and just like you,
Like I was talking.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
About like a kid Povich against Simeon Woods Richardson or something.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Yeah, my wife was listening to music and like on Spotify,
and she'd like put on a band and like do
a channel based on a band, and you get a band,
you get that band, and then you get the light
version of that band. Yeah. Like there are bands that
are like similar to other bands because they're like eighty
percent like that band and twenty percent like themselves. And
then there are bands that are just eighty percent of

(56:37):
the first band and there's something else. It's just it's
just a slightly worse version. Yeah, we've got We've got
that this week with the Twins and Orioles Simmon with
Richardson and k Povich. You know, I don't I don't
know which one that is. But like Dean Kremer is
like the eighty percent version of Bailey Over I feel
like at this point and then you have.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
So he's one point two five Kremer. That's done. Good
to know. Yeah, we'll cut that down.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Is it is it? Does the caremeer units go up
when you're worse? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:06):
No, no, no, I didn't know. It's yeah, it probably
should now.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
But yeah, and then you have Chris pat Yeah, and
then you have the other way around. You have Chris
Paddock and Tommy Tommy, Yuki Sigano, who's putting on on Thursday, Sagana,
the other person I wrote about in the article today.
Sigano has been getting away with it now, like h
he has given up thirteen run runs in the season

(57:31):
on seven home runs. They all like runs, so seven
home runs, eight base runners. Yeah, he had one guy
on for one of the home runs.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
He's going and mode.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Oh jo, he is going to give up ten runs
on a single home run, yeah, in this game, just
to bring it back to average. Now I feel I
feel like some Hubris is going like this feels like
the Violent Regression series some Buddies exactly maybe both. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Sicano has a two seven to ye Yeah he does.
We speak, So, Jeff, who do you go with?

Speaker 2 (58:10):
I went with some some late night baseball, get to
get a West Coast series Yankees Mariners. This is a
lot of CBDs because I don't know who's starting for
the Yankees. Obviously the Dfaid, Corlis Crossco and Marcus Stroman
had some sort of step back, So I don't know
who's actually pitching for them in this series.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
But I would also say at this point when Marcus
Stroman pitches, it is a setback.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah, the Mariners just lost, just got swept by the
Blue Jays, and now have the you know, you got
Aaron Judge against the Marine layer. See who wins that?
And the Mariners kind of need to, you know, right
the ship a little bit here. So it's you know,
and the Mariner's pitching against the Yankees hitting should be
an intriguing matchup.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
Yeah, it is Emerson Hancock.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
They're not sending the best Yeah, so you know, two three, Hey,
the Mariners of it, like the third best offensive baseball
behind the Yankees.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
So getting swept by the blue Jays who blew like
three consecutive starts.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
No, I know it's not it's not what you want
or three consecutive games.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
I should say to the Angels, Yeah, that takes us
to Sicos.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
So we're just taking the chalk here. I mean, I
guess you could argue it's Rangers Rockies. I wan with
Red's White Sox, because look, the Reds are capable of
absolutely blowing a team out. They're capable of absolutely getting
blown out, and the White Sox are capable of doing
one of those things, so it's gonna be beat.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
I don't know. At what point are you worried about
Sandy L. Contra.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
I think we're past that were it.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
I think we're there.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
Yeah, uh yeah, I would. I would say Rockies Rangers
might have had it if the Rockies were home.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Yes, that's probably a fair.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
It's in Texas.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
There's just nothing. There's just nothing for me in Rockies Rangers.
Like it doesn't The Rangers are like neutral enough that
it doesn't like the actual the vibes of Reds White
Sox is like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Yeah, I think there's a I mean, like obviously red
and Black don't like clash, but there's like a weird
like the vibrancy of the Reds.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
I just meant the teams and the way they I know,
but I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Just saying I think visually there's a it's it's a
little bit of a clash too.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
Anyway. Uh, let's go to our game.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
All right. We're doing a KA so this is a
nice easy one. I got eleven players. Stands on your buzzers.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
We're in. We're in.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Should we tell the.

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
M O suro Band.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Not that it matters to Craig what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
No, I'm not going to take them in order. This time,
we'll make you. We'll go around Number one. The Buffalo.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Oh I know someone it's not I should know this.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Mmm, buffalo. I did not know this.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
Okay, I'm just gonna say. I believe. I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
There's there's two options.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
I think Louise Gohara.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Right off the board, immedia.

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
Yeah, well, I think I'm saying it. I'm taking a shot.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Is Louise Ghara? Get it? Is he worth getting a
nickname listed? Pretty sure?

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
Actually? If it's not him? There was another?

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
I mean was I also like I thought Wilson Ramos
was the Buffalo?

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Might be? Uh he is Wilson Ramos is listed as buffalo.
Well give me a point the answer. So is it not? No? Okay,
well he might be, but he didn't. He's not good
enough to make it to be riff it is?

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Oh what what the buffalo?

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Okay, I had never heard it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
There's another There was There was another picture who came
up kind of around the same time as Ghara that
I swear it has has that?

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
All right? Number two we're gonna go with.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
I chart Doug Man, kay bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Correct number three the cup in comment.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
M this should I should know this?

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Yeah, yes, I mean that's like a like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
I'm struggling with the.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
The restriction is like, yeah, yeah, you're getting too getting
too focused on the ms. But it isn't it No, Yesta.
It's a good idea, but no.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Very where I am.

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
Yeah, I don't think I haven't.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
I'm not going to do it is mink yeah, yeah,
uh next.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Bam bam and all right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
I heard them both at the same time. Good John,
next one.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
Dandy little glove man.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Oh, I'm just it's my birthday. I'm a dandy little
glove man.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
You can't you can't bench me?

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Come on, give me nineteenth century. It's gotta be.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Give me a second. It's gonna be like Shortstop from
the sixties or something, right, like in the Davy concepts
the vibe, but not Davey. I just even keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
I did not even know this player was short.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
He's five eleven, Yeah, not short. Maybe he's just a dandy.
Who is it?

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
It is? Mickey Morandini.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
I would yeah, I would not have gotten there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
Okay, there is uh it just says Morand's defense throughout
his career. Man, it does not explain why it should.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Like everything that feels to me like something someone called
him one time and it's just like there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Yeah, now, yeah it isn't there because no one knows.
All right, moving on, Tony Plush, Oh no it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Uh oh Morgan, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
The first thing that came to mind was Nook Logan. Yeah,
the Nationals, Nationals and had like a I don't know
next one, moon Man. I don't think you I don't
think you'll know this. I didn't know this. It is
surprising to me that this is.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
The only player named moon Man, even that you know
this is it's for a guy who was kind of
a head case and therefore was considered you know, like
he got the nickname and uh like it just feels
like it should be a nickname that eight players have
gotten in history, like every decade they got to hand
this out to somebody. But he is the only moon Man,

(01:05:21):
all right, it's Greg Minton.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Weird is because of the David Roth posting his tops card.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But he, like the early eighties Giants
had basically every type of weirdo combined. Uh, and so
he was just one of them, all right, next Tomaso.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Tommy Malone.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
Oh my god, great, I love it. What kills me
is hold on before you move on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
I knew that my.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
Head was just saying Tommy Malone, and I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Well, I had to take a second because like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
I knew immediately, I was like, I know who this is,
and I just froze.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
You can't say his name too fast because that would
be in violation of the Tommy malooney does. It's gonna
be slow. All right. It's four to two, Jeff, we
have four left. The next one is the Lizard King. Yeah,
that's the point there, all.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
Right, again on a quick pause. Again the Lizard King.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Because he ate a lizard lizard. People don't talk about this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
I mean we talk about it every time his name
comes up on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Now more people should be we talk about it enough,
like people in he ate a live lizard.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
This is not normal behavior.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
The lizard's family still thinks about it. Sorry, there are
only two left, so Craig is one behind. Wow, all
my chances are when the chances are lower. Now, the
igniter Oh, it's a good name name, it's a good nickname.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
I feel like I'm gonna know this when you say it,
you probably wouldn't gonna bother me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
Pretty famous player, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
Mm hmm, it's it's very familiar.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
It's gonna be a leadoff guy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Right, Yes, this is I can like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
No it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
It's Hall of Famer. Yeah, fine, all right, Paul Maltor,
it's the ignitor, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
Not what I don't know, it was, not what was
in my head, not even matter.

Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
Last guy may have the most nicknames of anyone on BF.
So the first one Sergio.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
Malar, I mean, do I only get one?

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
Guess?

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
You can wait for the extra clues if you want,
you can gamble, all right. Next, next nickname, I mean Kevin.
Next thing name crazy legs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
And there's been a lot of crazy legs.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Yeah, there have been a lot of legs. Johnny Windermere.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
So like Johnny Vandermere.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
But okay, and let's see, uh well, on second, I'm
gonna bring his name up because I didn't like the
rest of them. He's also called the Rat, which many
players have been called uh Rat. Superstar for those in
the now super period, Star period all right, it is uh,

(01:08:50):
it is Seattle Slash someone other other teams own Brad Miller.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Yeah, let's surgery on Malar.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Apparently somebody in college started calling him Sergio and then
it sounded like Malar more than Miller, so they started
calling Mallar Johnny Windermere, like he apparently is from Windermere,
and someone was just like that sounds like Johnny football,
so they called him Johnny Windermere. None of them are
gigs are good. I look at it. That's what I read. Look,
I did not make that up.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
Crazy legs.

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
He wasn't even like fast or like I think he
had a weird gait. I think he had, you know, astride.
It's just it's weird. The quantity, like Brad Miller. Nobody
wanted to call him Brad Miller. Everybody was desperately searching
for some other way to address him, so they didn't
have to just call him Brad. Yeah. Congratulations to Jeff

(01:09:45):
Wentz for three came down to Wilson Ramos.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Yeah, all right, well, thank you for the im Patrick,
thank you to you both for coasting this episode, and
thank you to our listeners for tuning in to this
episode of five and Dive brought to you by the
Baseball Perspective podcast Network. You can get in touch with
the show at five and Dive at baseball perspectives dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
We are wherever you get your podcasts. Search for the
Baseball Perspective Podcast Network and.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
We'll be in that feed.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Thank you again, and we'll see you Thursday.