Five and Dive, Episode 462: It Don't Mean a Thing, if it AIn't Got That Swing

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to episode four sixty two of five and Dive.
I am your host Kurt Goldstein, joined as usual by
Patrick Dubuke and Jeffrey pattern Austro. Forgot the date. It
is Thursday, May twenty second, for anyone trying to place
this in time. Ah, that's that's what I got. I
don't have any banter. You guys have anything I got.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I got a little bit.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Maybe I don't know how this happened. If somebody pranked me,
this is a very dumb prank. If my email address
got just got passed around to a mailing list, whatever.
I get three to four times a day news from
France in French. Oh, I'm France Info. Okay, Yeah, so

(00:58):
the current one is.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
That's a real frequent yes news alert.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Okay, it's just like news alerts like going on in France. Sure,
I'm just farmers anger. MPs will not sit on May
thirtieth and thirty first to examine the text aimed at
lifting constraints in agriculture. That's a translation, pointly not a
great one.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Uh, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Can believe it.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
A lot of a lot of French history.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
A lot of French history is being angry. At the Yeah, yeah,
fair enough. But I get like I've gotten Let's see
how many have I gotten so far today? I've gotten
three three emails from oh four, just got one at
nine too. Yeah, I get like the municipalities do not
want to have denominational cemeteries. That also sounds very French.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Know what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
We're going to bury the Huguenots or whatever. It can't
be in the same Yeah, but it does not help.
I know Craig is a big like in box zero guy,
I am not, but the I.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Am, and I think It's been probably eighteen months minimum
since I've had it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah, all zero unread zero went the way of the
dinosaurs and a substack became the thing.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I think. I think my general state of inboxes. I
tried and keep things under twenty.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Okay, I have fifteen eighty four right now.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah. Well, and I also, just for people's atification, when
I say under twenty, I don't mean unread emails, I
mean emails total total.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
I have two emails, you know, Thank thanks to Craig,
I also.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Have two emails, which helps.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
I'm currently at twenty six.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Another email thread successfully mated.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
As long as we're staying international.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
My film festival continues film two of our five film run.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
He is a Romanian black comedy.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Sounds good already interested?

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, called The New Year That Never Came is about
the events leading up to the Romanian Revolution.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, this is right up my aisle.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
All yeah, I didn't laugh once.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well it's a black comedy.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Well, and that's the thing.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Sort So I'm sitting here, I'm enjoying it's a good movie,
like First the State, Like it was a good movie
that I did not find funny, and the other people
around me were laughing at and usually I'm usually I'm
in the opposite position when I'm watching a movie, I'll.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Laugh with the rest of the crowd. Romanian. Is that
you're not getting the cultural reference.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
Okay, there were there was. There was definitely expecting you
to pick up on things. Sure, and you know, it
took me a while to figure out, Okay, which which color,
which which kind of suits are the bad guys wearing this?

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (03:32):
But it's what's funny is I'm thinking about this because
it worked fine as a just an actual historical movie,
let alone, whether it's you know, it wasn't that black
and it wasn't that comedic.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
But it still was good.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
But it was making me think about like the difference
between a black comedy that doesn't have to be a
comedy in order to succeed, Like, if you're a black comedy,
you really you barely need to land one of those, right,
and you can still be a perfectly fine movie. Whereas
a rom com sure.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
That you like.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
If you fail those, you feel like when I think
of like a like a black comedy, I often think
of like in Bruges or whatever, but that's working without
without jokes, Like.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
There are a million in Bruges without comedies and they're
perfectly normal. Like that's that's like the Transporter, Like it's
just it's just no. But that's an action movie. That's
a completely different movie. Well that I don't know, there's
an action versus it's certainly shooting. I mean it pulling
a trigger is action. It becomes a thriller, right, it
just becomes it becomes a serious thriller.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
And I think this is the.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Thing with me in this movie is that like I
could recognize that there were jokes, I just didn't find
them funny because like it was too tense for me,
because it's literally, you know, a fascist government, you know,
monitoring everybody's moves, and it's kind of like it's that
first five minutes of Wally where you know the movie
isn't gonna end, but every five flow actually also pulls

(04:59):
this off.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
To be more like Death of Stalin. Was that the
problem that way?

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, that's a comedy, but like it was like every
single moment, you're like, you fools, you could be dying
right now, like every single moment, like the cops could
burst in this second. And so yeah, it was just
like this isn't there's no time for joking anyway.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
It's a good movie. Go see it. If you can't,
which you can't.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, shall we go to our first topic. Then that's
all right. You've got no right to be depressed. You
haven't tried hard enough to like it. Jeffrey, I hand
the rains to you on this one.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
So these are teams that are struggling a little bit lately.
I started I was gonna call this fraud Watch, but
a little early for fraud watch. I feel like.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Watch, haven't we oh no, we did frisky watch Watch.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I had a little early for fraud Watch. I am,
of course pro match and taking no pleasure in reporting this.
But the Mets have I've lost five of seven now,
including two of three to both the Yankees and Red Sox. Uh,
they're not hitting it. There's lots of fun narrative. There's
lots of fun New York tabloid media narrative stuff, which
I have another podcast I can talk about on.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
But they're tied for the fourth best record Baseball.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
No, I don't like the Phillies have passed them for
first place in the Analyst because the Phillies just played
the Rockies and the Pirates forever.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Baseball.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
The Mets to play the Rockies and the White Sox
like twelve times, it's best record in the Yeah, Met's
are about to play the Rockies and what the White
Sox twelve times after this Doctor series. So it's fine,
they'll be It's important.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
We said the date at the beginning of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, yeah, Well.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
No better way to get right than than that, frankly,
But yeah, like they have been.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Unwatch can also go really wrong.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
I don't think it will. No, no, no, they've been
unwatchable drack the last week. Basically, they're not hitting. There's
no worst, there's no worse experience in sports than a
team that doesn't hit with runners in scoring position.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Right, like you make you make fun of me and
my complaints as a Dodgers fan, But when a good
team and look, I'm not this is this is first
world problems for everyone listening who doesn't have have you know,
Won Soto and shot on their team whatever. But it
is legitimately uh ajita induce when you watch what is

(07:21):
a good team play like dog shit.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
They were over six with runners and scoring position the
first two innings last night, so you can do the
math on that they got.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
It's an interesting discussion, not that Patrick gets to watch
his favorite team, and not that he believes I know
that they have been good. My point is that when well,
but when the Mariners, even though they've they've been very
good this year, when they struggle, I wonder if Patrick,

(07:55):
but Patrick is probably the wrong thing.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
I mean, it's a different it's a different feeling when
uh Dylan Moore is not getting the runner in from
third to two hours door.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
That's That's where I'm going with this, right, and and
like for the Dodgers and true for the Mets too. Right,
when it's it's like oh, we've got a runner on
second and no out, and it's like the Dodgers, I
feel and Smith and Taoscar all failed to do it.
The same thing for the Mets, right when it's Alonzo,
when it's Soto, when it's Lindor, when it's all these

(08:27):
guys like that, you know, can can take you.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Best hitter on this team has been Jeff McNeil, which
is very funny, like not that he's but like not
hitting like Jeff McNeil. He's hitting like I don't even
know Lucas Duda basically, I'm not. I'm not joking like
it's like two fifty three thirty five hundred.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Like, yeah, it's just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Like there again, they'd be fine, Like they play the
Dodgers this weekend. They always play the Dodgers tough, even
the last few years, and the Dodgers have been significantly
better than that.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
God they're going to City because I don't want to
deal with Peter Alonzo in Dodgers Stadium. It's just an absolutely,
especially right after tell Marte.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, no, he's just Alo's got a seventy five way
to runs created plus in May. He's you know, he's
chasing the slider a little more was going to happen,
like he had a big heater. For the first month,
Lindor's been up and down, but overall, you know better
than you expect Lindor to be on May twenty second,
and he gives way way better.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I mean, his general Met's tenure at this point is
like like every year up to around towards the end
of May is like barely league.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Average seven ops basically.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, and he's at eight thirty one.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, and you know one Soto was with the leg
grant glancing at the Bronx Bronx every day basically.

Speaker 5 (09:43):
So okay, So what I had follow that we don't
have to get into the weeds, but like, yeah, I know,
there was the whole thing of like the turning in
their back on him, and there's something a plane what
I I could not get.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Into this, so co Ravitch mentioned that so that it
was it was I did not watch. I did watch
the Sunday night broadcast, but I had the I had
Howie and Keith rat On. But apparently Ravage mentioned that
like Juan Soto has his own plane, with the implication
that being like he's flying on it and there was
the implication that, like, no, that can't be right. Maybe

(10:19):
it's for his family, but there's no second plain this
isn't like I made the twenty six players twenty six
planes joke from the you're the twenty five players twenty
five capsy right, yeah, But like the other thing is,
like we talked about like Lindoor getting off to a
horrible start with the match Beltron did too, Piazza did
to an extent, he.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Has the same ops as Lindor.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Right now, he's been good, like he's been good. He's
been legitimately a good Like he hasn't for as much
power as you'd like. He's dround. He's like his clutch
stats of a novel.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
But like this is what he does. I mean, I'm
not going to get his clutch thats, but like that's
what he does when his bad period, when the non
power periods are one thirty. That's why he's so good.
The walks carry him through. They get the piece.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
He's gotten a lot of, Like he's gotten a like
even when he's been playing, he's got a lot of
one for three with a walk and the single to
the opposite field, right, Like, right, he's not like like, yes,
you wanted a little bit more out of the box.
And he is going to be a lightning rod to
an extent because he's not Lindor right, like he's not
going to make it up in the field or on
the bases or or things.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
All that sort of on the basis like.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
And there was stuff about him like not hustling on
a couple of plays like in a say, in the
same game when like Alonso didn't you know, hit one
off the wall and didn't thought it was gone and
got thrown out at second so didn't even make the
turn and then still a second immediately. So whatever, But
like you know, you give somebody seven hundred and sixty
five million dollars, this is going to be they're going

(11:50):
to be under a micros They're gonna under microscope. And
also Sodo as a player, like he's not unfriendly with
the media, like he'll stand in front of his locker.
He didn't talk the last day in New York, which
got people annoyed and backed out of the being miked
up for Sunday. I guess possibly because Buster and he
is like I'm going to ask you about Aaron Judge
and your free agency on Twitter and it got back
to him. But uh, all that aside, Like, look, he

(12:13):
wants to play baseball, hang out with his family and
his giant house in Florida, and play call of duty.
That's what he wants to do. Like he's not going
to be as you know, this is more a job
to him, I think than maybe some other guy. And
that's fine, right, Like what I just said described Zach
Wheeler too, and a lot of players, it's not not

(12:34):
always call.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
It might be less less on the call.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Of duty sign. He's definitely doing it in like when
he came up with the Mats, he was a big call.
He was always tweeting about. Yeah, maybe he still do.
When I am you can be a gamer in your thirties,
I guess fine.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Oh yeah absolutely. I mean he's just reaction time and stuff.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
But maybe I don't think they're trying to go pro.
I think it's just you know, playing with your high
school buds or whatever. But yeah, it's it's like again
they're what there are ten games over five hundred that
they throw. All this the pitching still been like Clay
Holmes giving up a few more home runs. Grip and
Canny has going to a few more home runs that
was going to happen. They're playing better lineups, whatever, But

(13:12):
they've been on all they've been in all these games.
They haven't gotten even the Sunday game was too too late.
And that's the thing too, Right, If Ryan Stanek doesn't
come in and walk a bunch of guys and they
win that Sunday night game, it's a completely different tone.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Right. Yeah, it doesn't actually change.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Doesn't change things that much. I mean, it makes my
game better than they are, but yeah, sure, but.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
I'm saying like it doesn't change that much in the
scheme of things, but the narrative, the tone, the yeah vibes,
whatever you want to call them, uh.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
And like this is going to I know, Mets fans
get a lot about the the Little Brother stuff and
right like that going back and forth to the Yankees
and sort of the shifting you know, tides within the
city now with Steve Cohen and you know, get up
any once and all that stuff. But like it is
going to take a long time and sustained success, which
the Mets really haven't had since the late eighties to

(14:05):
shift the narrative with this franchise. Right, Like, it's just
you get into it, and it's the same beat writers
that were there, Like they're just going to make these
columns until they die. They'll never get fired, Like it's
gonna to say, we'll never be rid of Michael Ka,
Like it's just the way it is, Like you've got
to live with it, right.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Well, And I mean, I think you're talking about a
legitimate you basically have to have a period like the
Dodgers of that for a day, right, ten years of
legitimate just sustained year in, year out success, And that's
honestly going to be hard, probably harder to do in
the NL East. Sure then it was for out and

(14:43):
you know, no shade to the teams in the West.
The Giants had been very good obviously for right early
an extended period of time. But like just generally speaking,
I think the competence right now in Atlanta, in Philly, yeah,
you know, I mean obviously we've talked about Phillies Cliff upcoming,
but like still they could they could dip down and

(15:03):
come back right like they I don't know, it does
it does? It might be harder to do that exact
thing in the in the Naly East, But even so,
I think just that type of run ninety plus wins.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Every year, look like with the with the six playoff spots,
like they can you know, you can have They only
made it last year with eighty nine wins, right, like
you can have it down year, and I think they're
better than that this year. I don't think there were
one hundred and ten win team, probably more like mid nineties,
which is fine. A friend of mine was complaining that
he was getting like, you know, shit talk and text

(15:38):
from a Yankees fan friend of his, but whatever, fine,
and so I asked him, like how old is he?
He's like, oh, he's twenty five, Like okay, see, so
he's seemed like fewer World Series and like Giants, Cardinals,
and like that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
I'd like.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
There is a lot. This isn't really a Yankees segment
per se, but I do feel I just want the
Europa League final yesterday between Manchester United and it's absolutely
abject dam of football. But I don't think the Yankees
realize their Manchester United yet. And they've been better in

(16:14):
this sort of like I guess Fallow period. They've be't
won a World Series in sixteen years, right, like I
think Manchester United's last Premier League title was twenty twelve
to thirteen to thirteen, I think. And look, they've won
some domestic trophies, they've made the Champions League here and there.
I don't think they've been quite as good over that
period as Yankees are. But like, if you're a twenty

(16:38):
you know, if you're Laminium, all right, and you were
born in fucking two thousand and seven or whatever, like
Manchester United, isn't as big a deal to you. And
if you're like if you're Won Soto and you were
born in nineteen ninety nine, like the Yankees are the Yankees,
but they're not.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Head and Shore the Yankees because of what you've heard
about the Yankees, not what you've seen from the Yankees.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yes, He's are a good franchise that spends money and
makes the playoffs most years.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
They're not historic. I mean like they are, but from
that perspective, from what you've experienced, were not historic. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, the Mets are second, DA and fourth and DRC
plus they're fine.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
It's been bad sequence. It's been like absolutely abjectly bad sequencing.
And look there's there's some stuff to that with some
of their approach and you know, the stuff they're being
told to do at the plate by their hitting instruction.
But the longer that's probably turned to for all you
kids this.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Weekend, which takes us to San Diego.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
The lost five straight, which is like they've gotten.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Healthy seven of the last ten.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, Jackson Merrill is back, obviously and crushing the ball.
And you know, as we touched about, like Tatis has
been great.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
And Chiato has been really has been very good. Yeah,
maybe a little less slug than the but.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
And I guess, uh Merrill's cooled off a little bit.
You know during this five GM losing streak. He is
two for nineteen, but yeah, he wasn't gonna have a
twelve hundred ops all year.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Nearly nine thirty.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, you know, you go through runs like this. The
pitching has been very good. I do enjoy, just like
Randy Vasquez keeps getting away with it.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, you mean striking out five for nine and walking
in four nine. Yes, that kind of getting with a
three five e R.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yes, that kind of getting away with it, that kind
of getting Paveta has had a couple less good starts,
you know. Michael kingsm Michael Kings an ace basically at
this point number one started. It is yep, but yeah,
they've just had a bit and it gets you know,
it's against the man Earners and the Blue Jays. You don't.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
And absolutely sal act by the Blue.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Last night, yeah, by Randy Basquez specifically that the area
went up from what it was before. But yeah, they're
just not scoring runs, right, Like they scored three runs
in five games.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
But this, I know. We talked about them early and
they obviously got off to a great start like l A,
and they kept a lot of press. They've kept a
lot of pressure on them and all of that, and
they're still They're in third, they're two and a half back.
It's not like they're in a bad situation. But I continue,
and I think I said it at the time, but
I continue to look at this team and think, like

(19:43):
they're probably better off trading King trading I like, yeah,
I mean, look, I get the I get the one
last go, but there's not one last go. When you
have Merrill and Tatis.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
And up, you can sign Mike King.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah, but they can't. They can They don't have money.
They appear not to have.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
They are saying they don't have money.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
I get that, I'm all for the skepticism, but whether
they will or they I mean, whether they can or
they can't they won't.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Like I.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Am all for taking ownership to task on they should
do this, or they shouldn't do this, or they have
the budget and they're unwilling to. But when you structure
deals like pavetas and like kings, that tells me you,
like you actually don't.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Have at least free cash.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
To pull this off. So like I'm all for excoriating
them over that, because they should, but like they something
is clearly a little bit worrisome.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Like they've obviously drawn the last couple of years, they
have drawn very well with these teams. Yeah, I don't,
I don't know. Obviously it's been messy with like various
lawsuits from the various family members and like that.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Look, the Dodgers are doing creative accounting to with the
with all the deferrals and stuff like this, it doesn't
feel the same, right, like it it's not the same.
So like that's where I'm saying, That's where I'm coming
from with this angle.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I agree they're not doing like that. I remember it's
a couple of years ago the Orioles were trying to
get I think it was Santander and Trey Mancini to
like defer their arbitration salaries.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
And it's just like that's the kind of stuff we're happening.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
But I mean the Padres after this, they go to Atlanta,
which is rough, but then home against the Marlins and
the Pirates, so.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
They're probably gonna be fine. Yeah, but it is I mean,
like to your point about the pitching like they're getting.
Stephen Kleak is starting games now and he's been pretty good.
But like I the vastest stuff is an illusion. Yes,
we're not buying. Are you buying? Are either of you

(21:59):
buying Stephen colek starter? No? No, I mean no, I
think we can say Dylan is already getting better, but
better than for a right, sure, Like Dylan c is
gonna be fine. The bullpen will be good, The bullpen
will be good. Like that's all to me. I still
think this is like a mid eighties Ish Whin team.

(22:21):
Better than that. Here's upside. I mean, there's upside. I'm
not doubting that, but but I I don't you're gonna
shoot yourself in the foot if you have to trade
Paveda and King because they gave them the one plus deal,
right or whatever. It's just a balloon payment. The next year.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
I think King is going to be a free agent.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
He is a free agent or is it? I thought
he had a weird deal he did.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
They basically just moved some of his money to a
twenty twenty five twenty six?

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Is it a player option mutual option?

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (22:54):
So he so he gets to yeah, okay, he can
determine it is the is.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
The well mutual so that somebody is going to turn
it down and it's going to be Michael King.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Right book. My point is he has the leverage too,
sure determine that.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Here's Here's the thing about the Padres is that if
you assume Jake Cronenworth.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
Is a starter and like we're looking at b REF,
he's right now, he's considered a benche player because you'd
been hurt if you if you treat him as a starter.
Here is the non starters that have played for the
Padres this year. Jose Iglesias, Martino, Lenando Tyler, Wade, Brandon Lockridge,
Oscar Gonzalez, Juli Guriel Tiresa and Ornelis Cotter, Joe Luis Campasano,
Mason McCoy. Mason McCoy, only one of those players has

(23:36):
a positive reference for there's too many holes and they're
they're clearly, as Craig notes, not going to be able
to fill them. And it's just it just feels like
there's a hard.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
It is but like, hey, if I had the guess
right now, I would bet on Aj Peller buying at
the deadline rather than selling.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
I just don't think he could buy enough.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I just think not like it's it's depending.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
But did it is not working.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Devin Sheets is under eight hundred ps at this.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Point, Louisa Gonzalez has gone to Korea.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well, and and my my, you know, the other point
in this is like, okay, when when Randy Vasquez doesn't
work and Stephen Kolak doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Is the was like, if no, they have no bullets?
Is there replace with the other problem?

Speaker 1 (24:24):
So I think there's a real chance you end up
with again. The baseline is so good. This is a
little bit like we talk about the Cardinals right in
the off season. It's like they I don't think the
Padres want to be bad. I don't know what the
I don't know what the Padres want to be right now,
but like they don't have the they don't have even
the Cardinals bench or not bench, but just secondary player

(24:48):
right right, Like they don't have those kind of secondary starters.
And I think I just I get where you're coming from,
because he's and that's not.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Like Commas to jay Z would be like the fourth
best player on the Padres right now, right.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, and well, and the question is like how do
you how do you backfill those I think the answers
you have to get the trade Michael King or Nick
Povetta or yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
They don't.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
They don't have a triple A death, they don't have
any they don't don't that many pieces to sell.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
I mean, yeah, they all needed prospects that they can move,
but like you can't. You can't do the consolidation move.
You've got to acquire, like you know what I mean,
Like I I don't know. Yeah, So I mean, Caavetta
goes to nineteen million next year, they're not they're not
paying that and if they go to the off season,

(25:36):
they're going to get nothing for him. Whereas a team,
I don't know. Let's say that I know you're you're gonna, well,
let's see the Orioles. Now, okay, whatever, but there are
teams that are going to need.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Picture Mariners might need this level of.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Nineteen million for him either.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
I mean they paid five million for for ud.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Maybe you know, but you know what Atlanta, Atlanta, Yeah,
I was thinking about Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Atlanta might, right, I mean, there there are these other
teams that might. Detroit might depending on their.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Pitching pitching, but yeah, I mean they're fine right now.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Sure, but you never know. Is my point. This is
the Yankees might.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, fair enough, and I guess the Hub heel back
by then, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Trading them back to the Red Sox to me would
be very funny. But someone is going to be willing
to to the Cubs.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
The Dodgers. Hubs might the what the Dodgers, sure, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Mean I think they're going to you know, I don't
intry division. I think you're gonna see where snell and
and ye are. But yeah, if i'm if i'm if
I'm saying the Tigers, I have to say the Dodgers
because the Tigers don't need him not. Yeah, yeah, the
Dodgers might. Absolutely, I think.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Uh I'm in back, don't again.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
I was gonna say time, that's but they're not taking
nineteen million. I mean not that they look they spent,
but they did their spending right.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
They're not making off the books at least.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
That that is true. But yeah, I mean they they
could be in the mixt Their rotation has been kind
of underperforming relative burns since getting that uh that.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Shot to the like an obvious spot for him at
this exact moment either.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, but but again Edward and Rodrigue has been kind
of bad and I think what Ryan Nelson started again
recently right here and the area. So yeah, I mean whatever,
but I just you're going to get something for him
this year just because of the value of the playoffs,
and teams know where they are and what it might
mean and are willing to then say, either I can
spin this off for nothing next year, I'll trade him,

(27:47):
but you know, trade the salary but not it's but
can't just trade the salary and not not get anything
for him in the off season they need. The whole
point is they need to get something in and return.
In my view, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's
that's how it looks to me. Honestly, Texas might take.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Them Texas also is like any probably like move Rocker
to the pen or something.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
But yeah, I don't know. I just think it's ant know, Patrick,
You're more on where I'm coming from.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Its seems Yeah, I just I don't.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
I just don't like see Proller doing it. It's the
thing like he'sable, obviously he has before, but like I
guess how secure is his job right now with the
shifting ownership stuff.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. But I also think like
at least right and depending on what you get. I mean,
I've probably said this three times now, but like you,
I don't disagree with where you're coming from on Preller,

(29:02):
but the whole is only deeper on the other side
of it, Like I don't want to encourage teams that
are in it to trade, like I hated the Orioles
trade man Senior trade, even though that worked and all
that kind of stuff. But the hole is deeper on
the other side of this, for the for the Padres
if they contend, and and I'm the guy who yelled

(29:23):
at the Astros all off season for trading Tucker even
though but I thought that last swing is worth more
to that team because of the way they're set up.
But the way the padres are set up is you
can't actually just take I'd rather take the zero for
this year and you could focus on that. You could
try and they are, but I don't think.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
That's Again, I guess you can see where you are
and if.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's where they are, if that's if they're in in
this relative position, then maybe that's not the answer. But
to Patrick's point about the way they've got negative contributors
out of everyone on their bench except for.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
It seems like it's something you could fix more easily
than some other things.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
But yeah, but that's not that's not the move that
Preller makes either. Sure, right, he's not picking up, he's.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Gonna get another reliever. We all know what's gonna actually happen.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
But he also consolidates, right he went. He his move
is go get Louisa Rise, and again that was a
good move. I continue to stand by that move.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Even if he is now like mid thirties Wally Joiner.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
He's got a one sixteen places. There was a very
high hard ceiling on Joiners production.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Sure, but I also think I know Robbie Stellen's been
better for the most part this year. But like what
he gave up was not that that big a deal.
I just think he doesn't make that nifty I I
conjured up a second division starter out of nothing. Move
that's that's not what Preller does. And so I struggled

(31:05):
to believe like he's that he's the guy to fill
out the bench in that way. You know, again, he
tried to do that with Hayward and and Joe and
it's not working. So I don't know. That's my view
and our last our last.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
I started the Red Sox in year. We don't need
to have a full conversation about the Red Sox. We
probably will have one later. I just want to note
that the Red Sox are five hundred and every time
you look at their standings, they were always four and
four and six in their last time. It's I don't
the math. I don't know how the matter technically, one
game under the one game under right now, you know
who has the worst area in ten or half?

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Brian Beao, Yeah, yeah, I thought never.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Dr A never likes him that much.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
When I when I said in our preview that like
if everything like I can really see the vision in
the upside here, it didn't involve Brian Bayo and ten
or how not being the two worst pictures in baseball. Yeah,
like everything else pretty pretty good. Like yeah, like.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
A lot of hundred Dobbins.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeahs isn't bad. Yeah, And Crochet has obviously been.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
One years.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Is like you.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Just you just see Garrett Garrett Crochet every fifth, every fifth,
sixth day, just Orioles fan.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
He had curious he had one Soda in absolute jail, Yester,
like Soda didn't swing at the first six pitches he
saw them. He had been absolute jail.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
He's been unbelievable. And also by the way, uh he's
got the long term deal. Sixty eight and the third inning.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Oh yeah, it was funny. They pulled him early yesterday,
not early like five and a third or whatever. And
then Cora came out, Oh yeah, we have a plan
for like kind of managing his innings this year. Destruction
him out and Karri coach is like nobody told me this.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
I also also he is leading another masters communication from
Alex Cora, well.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Do you see the stuff with Lindor so on the
Tuesday game, Uh, Bueler hit Lindor on the foot. He
was complaining that Lindor didn't get of the way basically,
and then Lindor staw a second and there was like
it was like one of those places where it's obviously
a strike but the catcher comes out of his crouch
early so it doesn't get called. And Bueler was like

(33:37):
super pissed about that and dropped a couple of f
bombs and got ejected. But like Lindor's on second, Lindor's
on second, like doing the ton the umpire to eject him. Basically,
there's like a hole that's good. There's a whole like
kerfuffle about it. And they asked Cora about it. It's like, oh,
we're fine, we got it's fine, we got breakfast today.
Like I'm not I don't care about like the fraternization stuff,

(33:58):
but it's a little weird.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
I know.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
He was a manager like teen Puerto Rico, i think,
for the World Baseball Classic. So I'm sure they're like, yeah,
it's funny, but just like just be like you can
just be like, yeah, well, you know, we talked about it.
See he had a competition. It's fine, like yeah, whatever,
but like you don't feel like, oh, yeah we got.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Breakfast with Raphael Devers. Yeah yeah, Jesus, yeah, you know
you've you've mentioned this a couple of times, Jeff. But
Christian Campbell is, yeah, back under the guy. We don't
have to go deep on it.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
But it was like over seventeen. He just snapped like
an over seventeen.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Speaking of if you want to get it again, don't
look at war. Yeah, right now it's May. You don't.
You don't have to look till the end of June.
You really just don't.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Unless you get raw understats. Then it's okay to look. Now,
I have not seen what Roberts three thirteen five sixty eight.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Well, that's that's good exactly. But but I was gonna
say Campbell's uh in on the negative column.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
They don't like his second either, but but yeah, he's
the only with like a minor injury.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
I think this was a team where he was always
going to come together. I didn't think it was gonna happen,
you know, April and May. I also just for guys
that are obviously unnatural teammates in so many ways because
of historical incidents. Alex Bregnant and Walker Buehler are like

(35:23):
perfect together in so many ways. But yeah, we can
the Red Sox might be in this in.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
This like, yeah, I mean they're in the ale and
not the l which helps.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yes, let's go to our second segment. I've got the
players right here in my computer. For those wondering, I
thought this was a Zoolander reference. Uh, it was somehow
a less popular trouble with the curve reference.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Speaking of movies, though I didn't laugh at did not
get to lander.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Well, I mean, how do you not laugh at Jerry
Stiller anything? Yeah, I meant.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Anyway, I didn't laugh at like the like the gas
fight at the gas station, fun of you.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
Yeah, it's been twenty years, but you know, I think
I watched it like on a laptop.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
I don't think it helped.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Listen to your friend Billy zaying, come on, he's a
cool dude.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
We've got additional swing metrics unveiled at Savant yesterday. There's
an article up on the site today from talking about
I guess the I don't know, is there a biggest
one in this suite of of metrics attack angle out
of just ahead. I don't Jeff, I know you have issues.

(36:45):
I think they're valid.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
I don't know, it's not that it's not that I
have issues, right, Oh, you have issues, buddy, Yeah, I do.
This data has existed for a while. Teams I've had it,
peans have been running you know, machine learning mobs off
video to try to capture this stuff for a decade
like this. And the thing for me with this kind

(37:07):
of stuff and with you know, someone's I talked about
some of us with like swing speed and swing length
and like some of these other metrics too, is just
like you don't get the full picture, right. It's it's
deployed in such a way that you're getting like a pete,

(37:32):
You're getting like this kind of like narrow, narrow frame
of what the total the total picture is, right, Like
I don't know what's important here.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Okay, well, so let's let's actually say that a job
of throwing the subject by me is go ahead, Patrick.
So we we have we we already had that speed,
we already had swing swing length, and now we have
basically that path path.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
So we have the attack angle in the attack.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
Direction, so where the bat is compared to the ball
both vertically and horizontally. And then we have what I
think they which MLB considers to be their most important thing,
which is the quote ideal attack angle right, which is
barrels for bad pass it is we've picked out the

(38:22):
angle which creates the most optimal thing. But of course,
as Matt true Blood points out in his article, the
optimal an attack angle depends on whether you're trying to
pull the baller go against it, right, Like, there are definitely.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
This is like there's All twenty it's like the for you,
like the All even in the All twenty two film
for like NFL, right, like you have to know what
the player is trying to do right before you can
and like my thing with this too is just like
we only know. There's a Ken Rosenthal piece a couple

(38:54):
of days ago, and obviously, base off Protectives wrote a
Saber Award winning article about hits have decade ago or
so about certific about abs and ABS measurements. But this
is the same. These are the same cameras. And my
question is if you're off by a half inch on
these where the ball is or where the bat is,

(39:15):
Like that's a big half inch for ideal barrel agle, Like,
I never know the margin of error for these things.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, well it would be nice if they were a
little yeah, more upfront about that. I mean, that's what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Look, I'm by I'm not at I am asking for this.
Actually I know I'm not going to get it. Like
this stuff should be open source, like I know why
it's not going to be.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
But yeah, I look, I generally agree. I also don't
mind there's going to be a margin.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
No, no, this is it would be great. I was
more like anything else that's come out in you know,
the top end of analytics for the last couple of years,
I will wait for a rob Ard to tell me
what's important here and go from there. I'm not joking either,
by the way.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
I know, I know. I also agree with you Patrick
the I think if I had to ask or anything,
that's not what Jeff is talking about here in terms
of just like kind of the upfront aspect of this.
And I think what Matt did well in what is
largely a really positive discussion of these things is say like,

(40:25):
uh that it's this is this is really about what
we're going to be able to do with it as
a as a community. And that excludes, in my opinion,
ideal attack angle. Just as like barrels just don't. I mean,
I guess it's fine, but I wish they didn't. It's
sweet spot sweet spot percentage or whatever it was right

(40:47):
when they when with the last I don't think you
need commodified.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Schemes all have variations on this, and they're carving it
their own way, right, Like they're what they think is
the most you know, your quality contact, extra velocity and
launch angle. But it's it's all working backwards from that too,
is the other thing?

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Right, Well that's I guess that's my issue is I
don't really want the league telling fans this is.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
That's the whole point. It's well, it's it's it is too.
It's all designed to be sort of sliced and diced
for this little you know, engagement tweets and articles and
things like that.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Right, it's all like leader board posts. But I just
felt valuable is that I don't sweet spot ideal attack angle. Okay,
I mean what I mean it's like different for.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Everyone, right, It's like it's like root efficiency about for
your bad right, and I'm not sure we do Like
root efficiency gets a little more complicated because you know,
the ball is traveling a lot more different, a lot
more distance, with atmospheric conditions and angles off the bad
and things like that. This is a pretty you know,
a closed system for a pitch and it's like you
think would be better for that, but also like I

(42:00):
don't know, man, Yeah, I just like I would say,
what's the ideal attack angle for, you know, a slider
off the edge that you are able to stay back
just at the last second and whip into left field
or something? Right.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah. I think I was watching a Dodger's game the
other day and Monsey I think hit a single, but
they asked him about it. I think it drove in a run,
but they asked him about it, and he said, all
I was trying to do is pull the ball out.
There's a run around second, right, Like he'said all I
was trying to do or maybe third, I don't know.

(42:36):
He said, all I was trying to do is pull
the ball. I mean that's what mattx mounts he's doing anyway,
but like he did not care. Yeah, half the things
that guys generally care about and are trying to do
fell away situationally. And I'm not trying to be the
old guy bitching about situational hitting or whatever. And I
get this washes away in the larger sample kind of stuff,

(43:01):
but it I think the way that we talk about
these things when we say ideal or when we say
someone is is on time versus not on time versus.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
That's the thing that Bob would like. There was a
I think it was.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
A just just versus the issue that one of the
major issues we had with with the prior release, which
was talking about short versus long swings, like that is
not what we're talking about either, is like this this.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
The swing speed is a timing matric, Like no, it's not,
it's not. That's not that we're talking about different things
Like don't that's my issues, Like.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Don't you're modeling it.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
It's not that you'remuddling it. You're creating this vernacular that
we're all supposed to use. And like nobody's talked about
baseball like this for twenty years. It's kind of like
monopolizing the way, Like I have to you know, I
have to like like X WOLDA and things like that, right,
like I have to be like conversing in them, but
also so like X will but basically implies that barrel

(44:03):
control doesn't exist, Like right, I think we hijacked Yeah,
Patrick going.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
Through Patrick trying to get the fourth thing here, go ahead,
Patrick was there fourth thing already attack direction a direction.
We got to an ideal attacking angle.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
Sure, I mean that's just poland right, Like it's it's just.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Further quantified horizontal spray.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
It is.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
It's the horizonal spray that we kind of it's where
the bat is. It's not necessarily where it's where the
bat is angled or whatever, even though that's not right,
it's it's as they said in there, it's the horizontal
version of attack angle, which I would have changed attack.

(44:52):
Maybe then you're doing angle and direction. I don't know whatever,
Uh go ahead, Patrick.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
No, don't know.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
I mean we essentially, I feel like, but we're we're
at the point like it's almost like it's almost like
the Internet is designed to incentivize people to make bold
declarative statements.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
It's like this is this is for this is for
engagement accounts to do screen shop posting.

Speaker 4 (45:19):
Yeah, I mean even if it's not for it, people
that they will do it.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Right.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
So we're just going to kind of go through our
spin era. Remember when remember when everyone was talking about
spin all the time because it was a big number.
I mean, the worst thing about spin is how many
times the ball spin is fun because that made it
seem important in a way that everyone used and.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
We didn't have spin angle or efficiency or right iv B.
I mean actually we probably did, but we weren't. Teams
were looking at it, but like it wasn't. Again, it's
like we limit ourselves so much to what's just like
published on Savant or publish ship fangrafts or publish a BP,
and I think we don't like think about this. There

(46:02):
was the whole thing with like Luis Araya's having like
all the blue slider things a couple of years ago,
and like okay, but also and like spins this too,
like you don't like you don't want to be medium
spin right, high spin or low spin into a iv
B too, you don't want to be medium IVB like
low IVB or high iv B is interesting theoretically, there's

(46:25):
more to it than that, right, Yeah, And like the
hitting stuff is so it's like every swing is a
sample size of one in some ways. Well, and also
we're going to get away from Yeah there.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
I think this is data.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
There's going to be so much more interesting on the
individual level. And on the individual you know, like the
in equals one level, right, because hitting is reactive and
so with the picture, you can decide, hey, I want
to throw this pitch in this place, and I'm going
to try and do it, and I will leave it
succeed or fail, and the hitter can't do that. The
hit has to go Okay. Here is the exact situation

(47:05):
which I'm faced both run state, runner, state, pitch, state,
spin state. You know all these things I have to
react to. You can't just go, oh, this is a
timing issue, because anytime you were behind on the pitch
just because you reacted late, there's so much more intentionality
that we need to you know. It's it's essentially like

(47:25):
trying to read trying to decide where the pitch was
meant because of where the catcher's glove was right, because
it's all we can see, and we just I think
that we will figure out in time. We will reach
a point in time where we can at least say, hey,
this swing from Louise Arise was different than his usual
swings as opposed to hey, all of Louise Ari's swings

(47:49):
average together are different than all of Kyle Schwarver's. Right,
And we're just you know, we'll get there. Just you know,
people are going to overreact right now.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Because they're paid too.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
I think yeah, And I think Jeff, you made a
really good point about a slider off the edge or whatever,
Like what are you going to do? Did you see
the when the Dodgers came back to win against the
Diamondbacks two nights ago, Tommy Edmund pinch hit and got
just a nasty pitch out of the zone, off the edge,

(48:21):
and he reached out and he somehow had a double
off of it carried he got the barrel on it
and it carried to left. But like there was nothing
else to do with it but go opposite field. If
you pull that, you either miss it or you roll
over right. There's there's if you catch that at a
different angle. There's just nothing to be done with it.

(48:42):
And that's not being laid on the ball.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
It's well, there's a like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Hitting, as Matt said in his head, hitting is a reactive.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Right right to Patrick and Matt point about it not
being reacted, like there are pitches that there was one
I think the metsroight tucks and then it was crochet
or Bueller, But there was just a pitch. It was
like a three to two breaking ball that was like
outer black at the knees and like it was borderline.
I think it was a strike, but it was like borderline,

(49:12):
and like, like what if you swing at that pitch,
you're making it out. If you're lucky, you're fouling it
off and you're topping a foul or something. But if
you swing at that pitch, you are making an out.
You're rolling over like that, maybe you can serve in
the right field if you're like an elite hit. It
was like Mark Biento, so not gonna happen, but you
were like rolling over on that pitch to the shortstop,
like that's just.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
And that's that's a picture executing their pa.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
That's a pitcher executing their pitch, right.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yeah, And I think, look, I would recommend people if
they're on Blue Sky or I think he's he might
even still be on Twitter, but follow Steven Sutton Brown
for some of this stuff. I thought one of the
more interesting things. I think Mike Petriella mentioned it, but
like they talked about going back to Dave Roberts's decision
to pinch hit Austin Barnes instead of Chris Taylor against

(49:56):
Josh Hater back in twenty eighteen, that would have been
twenty seventeen, no twenty eighteen, and I'll see yes, sorry,
And like Robert said at the time, like Barnes' batpath
matched uff with with Hater, which which you could do

(50:17):
at the time, right, rob Or has done a lot
of this kind of stuff already, but this gives you
a little bit more granular info.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
And one of the things I don't know if Austin
Barnes is batch feed Matt stuff better.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
No, no, but yeah, like what Stephen posted were some
graphics that I thought were pretty interesting about like likelihood
of contact, you know, and and where the with you know.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
You know, obviously the Giants when they're one hundred and
nine win season two supposedly so they had like the pitching.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
And it was just about like, look, Austin Barnes or
Chris Taylor even even in twenty eighteen, you know, good
choices here. First, Hater is a really rough matchup. But
the idea is like they needed contact. Yeah, and again
you can make an argument about quality of contact, sure,
but like they needed some contact, and that bore out

(51:07):
in what Steven's models were able to essentially show. I
don't think that ends a discussion but it's just something
that says like, oh we can we we can now
actually factor this right, Like you said, teams have had
this this stuff for a little bit longer. And I think,
you know, one of the things that Stephen talked about,
I don't I don't remember if he put this on
his feet or if it was in a in a

(51:28):
slack channel. But like the location of the pitch doesn't
I guess there's some change for batters, but for pitchers
it doesn't change that much who the batter is, right,
even though there are ideal matchups for batters, Like, it's
basically about pitchers executing their pitches. Yes, which is.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
I think pitching is disrupting a hitter's timing, et cetera,
et cetera.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Right, And so but I guess my point is like
it is both significant on the on the batter side
of things, but less significant on the pitch. It's kind
of like how strikeouts matter a lot, uh for for
one side, but and they matter for both sides, but
a lot more for one than the other. Like it's
a lot more meaningful, you know, in terms of in

(52:16):
terms of impact. So I think that that's not revolutionary.
What I'm saying that Steven's discussion, but but we have
more confidence in our ability to assert it.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
I guess I just think part of the problem, sort
of over arching all of the last couple of years
of sort of analytics stuff on the public side, is
that we have now gotten to the point where, like
you literally need a full analytics department with like a

(52:50):
bunch of PhD, isn't it in machine learning and and
and software engineering and like and just you need to
have a full, you know, base ball analytics apartment to
really dig down into because we're talking about, like I think,
very very marginal gains at this point, right, Like we've
done a lot of the layup stuff over the last

(53:11):
twenty five years, and like, I'm not saying this stuff
isn't important. It certainly is, but I don't like we've
kind of reached the outer limit of what you can
do on the public side. Yeah, data, and.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Again, I think a lot of what this is going
to end up doing is reinforcing stuff that we believed
to be the case or had evidence was the case.
But it just gives it to us in a little
bit more of a granular chair way. Patrick, any final
words before we take a break. All right, we're going

(53:48):
to take that break and we'll be back with the
rest of the show. Welcome back to episode four hundred

(54:12):
and sixty two of five and Dive. We are on
our third segment going around the Horn. You're gonna be honest,
I intentionally did not look into this because I had
not seen it. But the first item on the dock
is Skimes trade rumors.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
What the pirates are saying. There's I don't know where
this comes from, but the pirates.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
This is very much a shirt that declares, yeah, declarative shirt.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
I mean, it's just like, you know, the pirates are bad.
The pirates will continue to be bad, so they should
trade ball skins. But they're not going to trade trade,
not yet.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Yeah. I mean, look, I think nobody except the pirates
want to see all schemes, you know, wasted pirates, right
like everyone everyone else, Yeah, wants to look at Paul
Skens and say, like, let's see him in the biggest moments,

(55:14):
on the biggest stages.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
They'll get there in two years.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
This is something this is something that happens to every yeah,
blue chip player on bad themes.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Sure, but like in some level, like Bobby Witt got
to play in the playoffs, right, like it Some feel
it feels more dire in Pittsford than it does well.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
And it is.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
I think it's it's look, the Royals in their way
make attempts, yes, that the Pirates in their way extremely
do not.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
There's no just from the purely But this was.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Garrett Crochet, right, I mean, this is this is Garrett Crochet.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
And it's a little bit from the logistical standpoint, like
when they trade him in two years, which they probably will,
don't get the exact same package they get today because
you can't make a five year yeah deal, the cheap
five year deal for it. Like, there's just nobody has
the pieces right.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
To make it worthwhile, right and look there is uh
there's risks, right if Paul Skins hurt, Yep, that's that's
a risk. But it's kind of the risk the pirates
just have to carry, yes and bitch.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Obviously Jerry Jones just got like again not the not
the quite the same level of internal brace.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Yeah, he's out for you.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
So I think, yeah, I I.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I mean, he can have it and come back and
they can still trade him for a huge yes.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. I mean.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Had TJ in there obviously himself, So.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
I think I don't know, it's it's it is a
little bit depressing. Yeah, it's just he has he even
been up a.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Year, about a full year now, yeah, I think, But yes, I.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
I want to say people need to give like the
situation a chance to breathe or like the Pirates that there,
it's the Pirates. I understand why they're not, but I
also think that's kind of a space for like Pirates
fans to deal with and like we all should just
keep our grubby mits away from him like a couple
of years.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
As we're saying, like, it's just you don't need to
do like all these are just these aren't arguments for
trading schemes. These are arguments for contracting the Pirates.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
That yeah, that's really what it is, right, I just like,
let the let the Pirates fans have something nice. And
they're not even gonna let themselves have it. I know,
watching every start and saying this, this team is wasting
this guy and they are they are. I mean that's
what we spent all off season talking about, Like you
they the animal Central is not that like you you

(57:56):
could do something here with just like a little.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Bit yeah, kind of get to like a red club
like Hunter Green is about as good a pictures Paul
Skins like, and they've put enough around him, right, and
like threads aren't great either, but like this is yourself
a little bit of hope, right, it's.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Also good too. You know. Joshian wrote about this when
when there was a bigger class of like that big
class of free agent shortstops and it looked like Bobby
Whitt was not a good shortstop like that that the
Royals should be signing these guys or signing one of
these guys going big they have. He's written about the Orioles.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
To sign right, like that would.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yes, that's that's the right, exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
These like these deals generally like they're not the very
very top end of the free agent class. And maybe
that's changing because of the deal, but generally speaking the
very very top end of the free agent bat class,
especially like you're still getting a bargain to an extent
like Bryce Harper Machado's first contract like absolutely worth it.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
And like the idea that you can't afford that mess,
like you know, like this was happening with the Orioles, right,
like you add up Tyler O'Neill and Charlie Morton and well.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
But the Pirates have figured out too by not doing
any of that either, Like they're they're just not even.
And that is where the you know, the look the
Royals have in the if you grant them that the
budget is limited and whatever, the Hunter Renfro contract is
hurting them. Sure, right, I mean that that limited them, right,

(59:37):
That meant they had to get Jonathan India by trading
Bratty Singer rather than some other you know, maybe they
could have signed Labor Torres. Sure right, Uh but yeah,
I don't know. I guess he's destined to be traded.
But on on some level, like it really is just
a shame.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
And this is like it's it's funny too because you
think back to like from the day they drafted him
first overall, right, like we've been heading to this.

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
Yeah, yeah, it's more dire. Yeah, it's more dire now,
like just this this last two months.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Right, because like you could kind of like maybe this
time last year, right, Okay, Well, they get Skiings, they
get Jones, they get Chandler, like Reynolds was good last year.
I think Brian Hayes got off to a good start
because he usually does.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Nature off season acquisition. Spencer Horowitz was back, I think
about to be.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
But like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
It's just you know, it is that's the argument for
like contracting the Pirates. I was like them in the
day they drafted Paul Skians. It was like they will
eventually trade Paul Skans for three prospects that are not
as good as prospect Paul Skans.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
No, this is this is like the Bears drafting of quarterback, right, Like,
this is not unique to Pittsburgh, It's not unique to baseball.
Bad teams get high draft picks, and sometimes those bad
teams are bad teams forever, right, and sometimes those teams
ruin those draft picks.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
I was talking, Well, but the miraculous part here is
they did not ruin The Skins is unruinable. But this
is even they're not even. Look the parallels here are
Garrett Cole, Right, yeah, but they're not even. Garrett Cole
was traded and then immediately better. And look, maybe Paul
Skins will be better, but it's there's the margin for

(01:01:22):
that is small.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
I mean the Angels it is possible, but the angel
Skins right straight to the majors and Skins.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Exactly, and he never would have developed a spinker and like, yeah, right,
that would be the Garrett Cole path, right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
And he'd be like a three point four. Ye he
did good, just not right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
But the it's a completely it's it's maybe unfair to
say that parallel because it is a completely different front office,
although I understand that Pirates fans also completely different. It's
a sack of bricks, but like, it still feels like
they would trade him get to your point, not just
three prospects who are not as good as Paul Skins,

(01:02:03):
but like it would somehow be like you're getting whatever
the modern day Colin Moran, Yes, right, And it was
like oh Colin, no.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
No, no. The funny thing is, wasn't Joe musk Row
in that deal too? And they didn't do anything with
Joe Muscrove until he got traded.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Well, I think he got right last year. He made
the curve like he got the curve ball or the slide.
He got the breaking ball, let's say. And then then
they traded him to the Padres before everyone was like,
oh yeah, actually he is that good and then the
right Yes, I believe that's correct. Yeah, this is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Amateur scout about this, and sort of like when we're
like gaming out draft potential draft tecks and things like that,
just the idea that you know, a lot of these
teams are picking high this year because they're not good
at picking players, right, so like you don't know what
they're actually gonna but like the Pirates got one one

(01:03:06):
and if it was me, I would have taken Lang
for Da Cruz over Skins, right, Like, not that Schemes
was a bad pick, there was me, I would have
taken Lang for Da Cruz. And they've gotten basically, you know,
the addition of the eighties Splinker kind of randomly right
took him from the best pitching prospect in baseball to
like very quickly, don't know shit, top of the rotation starter,

(01:03:30):
like everything has gone right here and they can't well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
And also if you want to worry anything with it,
if you do want to even worry about the state
of things for Schemes right now, like he's gone from
a thirty three percent strikeout right to yeah, he's I'm
trying to burnish the site. Yeah, Mario henzor wrote a
phenomenal article, very you know, as all of his are

(01:03:55):
very you know, a lot of deep research on on
on schemes and why it's like this, And I think
what he came out with, and it's fair, is that
like Skeins was never really a thirty three percent strikeout right.
Sure he yes it happened, but like that's not where
That's not how he pitches. That's not what he does.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
And I also think a lot of it today too
is and they were talking about this in the Mets
broadcast recently. Is adding all these pitches, especially make skeens
his fastball, which you know it's one hundred, but it's
not ideal shape play up is that, you know, you
can't sit on the fastball. Right, He's got a cutter,
he's got a change He's got a very good change up. Now,
actually that's not the splinker. He's got the wipe out slide.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Probably, I mean, based on Mario's article, the change up
might be his best pits.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
And again it's not at the pitch heat. I think
it threw a little bit in college, but it wasn't
a pitch like he didn't need it and hasn't needed it.
But yeah, it is a nasty change up, but yeah,
like and again it's the more pitches you throw, the
less thing, and like, look, he could probably just be
a fastball, splinker, slider, and nobody's hitting those. I think,
you know, including like the thinker and the cutter gives

(01:05:04):
you know, maybe you're doing contact suppression to an extent,
but you're giving guys the pitches they can probably hit
better than you're you know, plus plus plus plus plus offerings.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Yeah, yeah, I am looking by the way, it does
seem by stuff pro his sweeper is his best.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
No, it's like the sweepers the whiff rates.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
So focusing on with rates and chance rights and stuff,
the change up is the one like.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Stuff models, change ups, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Right, Uh again, I would I would advise anyone to
take a look at that article if you haven't. It's
in search of Paul's scheme's missing case. But yeah, I'm
just saying if there's concern there, and I don't think
there needs to be concerned about that, because he doesn't
need he's going to get really weak contact.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
On right, Like he's like he's probably always going to
be a high twos rather than high ones. R A
guy too, right, Like it's not that's very difficult to day.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
And it's also that's still insanely good. Elsewhere NBC is
interested in Sunday night baseball. This is the package of
content that the league and ESPN both opted out, the
league doing like you can't you can't quit fire yeah,

(01:06:22):
or yeah, you can't fire me quit whatever either way.
The one thing I saw on this was that the
Wall Street Journal reported that the value in the they've
made an offer, I believe, and the value of the
offer is significantly below what ESPN was scheduled to pay,
which is why ESPN opted out. Ye uh, and if
you want to do speaking of memes, we're all searching

(01:06:43):
for the guy who did this, you know, Rob Manfred
and and I could probably know a garden or whoever
it is, like, that's the I think the mark whatever.
I might have that wrong, I apologize so, but they
agreed to these like Roku deals that seriously devalued the problem. YEP.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
I do think there is like additional value specifically in
having a prime time Sunday night network TV game.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
If if it's gonna be on NBC, I think it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Will be when it's not football season, right, Like obviously
Sunday night football is gonna it will be on Peck whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
But like I was gonna say, I think it's gonna
be on Peacock most of the time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
And that is that's the problem, right, Like if you
can get a package where you know more than half
of these games are on NBC Sunday night, like.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Yeah, But but the other part of this, Jeff is
like you're you're saying not during football season, but do
you know when the biggest time for baseball is also
when football starts.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yes, I know, but like I think they're still on
being able to like like the ESPN Mets Yankees game
did like three million dealers, Like if they can, that's
like okay for network TV. Now you probably do more,
frankly because it's network to be and people will just
throw on the NBC Game of the Week or whatever
on a Sunday night. So I do think there's value
in that beyond you know, I Rob Manfred sees value

(01:08:00):
in that beyond the bottom line dollar number.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
But what But part of this is what what Rob
Manfred wants very clearly as the Apple and Rokue Deals show,
is to be on streamers to be on something that's
not limited by cable, which again I would say to your.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Point, like network is not stream right, it's not. There's
no NBC Sports anymore, so it's not like it's gonna right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Put a lot of these. Fox puts a lot of
the their package there. It's different than the but their
package on f S one, which you know, limits it.
I've talked about how I really I thought the Field
of Dreams thing was stupid, and it wasn't. It's been
a massive success. And I think the lesson I took
from that is like, if you get a partner that

(01:08:49):
actually gives a ship and is willing to put it
on broadcast on net, you know, on not cable, not
hide it behind a paywall, then you're going to reap
the rewards of that. And they really they have. They've
gotten big, big numbers out of those. The international series too.
They when they make a big deal and they make

(01:09:09):
an investment into it. But MLB has been really lazy and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Very crystal Street Speedway this year for some read I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Look that's awesome, it looks whatever, sure do this stuff.
I mean, look a the NHL has made a hit
series out of playing in baseball stadiums. I don't know
why that is attractive to people.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
Of like anything else you turn into a baseball game,
they all look the same, right, Like, it's all the same.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
The one thing I thought I saw the mock up
for the speedway thing, and I thought the one thing
I thought was cool was like having the track kind of.
But yeah, I mean it's a little bit like when
you get to change the settings in your MLB the
show thing and you're on somebody. Sure, right, fine, but
then they really have to be intentional all about the

(01:10:01):
partner they're choosing to work with her. And my concern
with NBC is not inherent to NBC specifically, other than
your point about Sunday night football. You've got Sunday night
football and Sunday night baseball. How are they going to
handle that? How are you going to get the most out.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Of your counter programming yourself? Essentially at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Yeah, how are you going to get the most out
of Mets, Dodgers or Yankees, Red Sox whatever, like, you know,
how are you going to get the most out of
your market matchups on a Sunday night baseball In September.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Right, you're probably flexing like playoff stuff too. Write the
playoff implications in that point.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
If you're right exactly, and maybe how.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Are you saying like Guardians twins if it's a central race,
but you're trying to get like sure.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
But I'm just saying also, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
I think that that is a hurdle for NBC that
every other organization doesn't have. And I think what MLM
wants honestly more than NBC. And look, I prefer the
NBC option of putting it on on broadcasts, but I
think what MLB wants in this situation is Netflix or

(01:11:08):
Amazon Prime or I guess, yeah, I don't know. I
think that's what they want. I think that's I think
that's what they want. And now that is a paywall,
but they view that as like a uh you know
once you Yeah, basically I do. I I really do.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Think they don't have to sell anything, right, and it
comes Netflix's responsibility to sell it at that to market.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
And they're lazy. That's my point is MLB has been
lazy about this, and I think that's what they want.
And I don't know that they're entirely wrong, but I
think yeah, I don't know. That's that's what I think
they want elsewhere. Justin Verlander is going to the.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
I l the short list entries this week. Good job.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
We we went through the Giants rotation options and like
what was happening last podcast? So I think we had
squeezed Kyle Harrison. Maybe Kyle Harrison's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
Good Carson wasn't Huntson very good in the minors. Y.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Yeah, they have options and they're not bad options.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
No, they're not bad options.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Uh. And then lastly, can you c Lawrence has been
DFAD for a fifth time. He gets so so the
the Mariners and the Yankees did this without a Vino
a couple of times, and there have been some other instants.
But it is very glaring with the Mariners and Lawrence
this year is they keep dfaing him and then signing

(01:12:36):
him to a contract so and then adding him back
to the to the roster, and it's they're just churning
a roster. Basically, they don't have to play by the option, uh,
the ten day hold on option. They don't have to
either fake or semi fake. I l somebody to get
him back.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
They just wants to do this. I guess and don't
don't have to change apartment.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Said, I'm assuming he's getting something.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Something, some kind of downside. I mean, yeah, when he's
not on the forty man, he's getting you he's a
veteran at this point, he might be well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
I assume whatever deals he's sign Yeah, I assume whatever
deals he's signing, there's like maybe a little premium. Sure, yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
So it's just very like this shouldn't be allowed.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
Yeah, I can't, like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
It's fine, and like obviously it's he's signing with the
same team, right, He's a situation where a guy is
getting claimed down waivers six times in the course of this.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
Isn't like Adamselle is having to have a second family just.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
To Yeah, yeah, liked for him. All Right. That brings
us to what to watch. I'll start off and look,
I'm gonna I'm gonna preface this with I have heard
yeah from any listener, a specific listener, Yeah, who says
that when it comes to this segment, I'm always picking

(01:13:54):
the daughters. And I want this listener to know I
went back, I ran the numbers.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
And now he's going to make those numbers worse.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
I am going to make this number worse. I'm picking
the Dodgers and Mets. To be clear, they're really they.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Always play goods. They always play each other tight, right,
Like the pitching matchups aren't actually great for.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
This they're not. It's it's Kershawn Cannon to start. Yeah,
but I think the Sunday night games. Speaking of Sunday
night games is Land and Knack. Although you get cold,
I said, yeah, it's it's Land and Knack though, But
I really I've picked the Dodgers twice this year. That's it.
It's I I know we're not that far into the season,

(01:14:35):
but for twice a week, it's not that much, I think.
But now I'm picking them a third time. But come on,
it's it's Dodgers Mets, It's New York l A. It's
Juan Soto and Tani.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
And don't get any of the pod.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
But you don't get the what any of.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
The local broadcasts it's Apple five is Saturday.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Also, you can't get them on Saturday. Uh well, these
are these are the they need a brind of the
local broadcasters for those. It really drives. Uh Patrick, you
went in a different direction.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
You can't you will get local broadcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
You can listen and I'm blacked out.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
Yeah you can't. Yeah, I'm going to pro direction. I'm
going Yankees Rockies. Look, I can't stop watching the Rockies.
I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
I try to say, this is like, this is a
it's not a fascinating matchup. That's not that's not the
right word. But this Yankees lineup in chorus, it's just
good against this rock You can judge.

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
In chorus against the Rockies.

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
Yeah, it's I will say. Last night I was playing
a board game with my son. We were playing Manza,
a board game that no one else has ever heard of.
I'm sorry, what Monza. It's a it's a race car game.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
That's it's like race car.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:15:51):
So so We're just sitting there on the floor plane
playing this this this, this game, and Felix I just
put face on in the background, and Felix is facing
away from the two being on facing towards it, but
I'm not really watching. And Felix at one point goes, oh,
you have MLB can we put can we watch the Rockies?
And I said, sorry, but they just lost. He just goes,
oh had they lost?

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
Yes, yeah, we had. I had it on. They had
just finished losing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
I do want speaking of the Rockies losing, we have
some breaking news. Okay, Chase Stalander is going to the
fifteen day IL with right fore arm tightness.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Oh yeah, So I just want to point out Sam Miller,
the Great Sam Miller has a running thing in the
sense that has happened twice the National League West. Every
team in the NL West has at least twenty six
wins except for the Rockies were on pace for twenty
six wins. Incredible, incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
What do you like even do with the Like it's
one of those things where like remember when they'd never
a triple Crown winner for like forty years and they
had back to back ones. This is like what it
is like I can't follow this, Like the way like
they might actually be like legitimately they might want like
thirty five yea, like they they could be so bad
that it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
Not even imagine if you just like with immediately absolve
the White Sox. Yeah, like the way on like such
a story.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
From a fifty pace this year last year.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
Yeah, I'm saying like the White Sox that it was
such a storyline, yeah all last year and no one
will ever remember the twenty twenty four White Sox. If
the Rockies do this right, it's just going to be
immediately preempted. Ye, unbelievable, Jeffery, you did not.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Yeah, I didn't have one. I forgot too. Yes, Atlanta,
San Diego, I'm going to go.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
It's there were a lot of good options. Actually, ye,
I'll throw an honorable honorable mentions to the Diamondbacks Cardinals
and if you want to get your.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
Central Cardinals, Like I know, they're both over five hundred,
facially good, but just like not not interesting to me.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
I think I think you can watch the Diamondbacks any.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
It's a very good lineup.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
It's a very good doing some wild stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
The twelve Pits, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
They play really weird games. And also I want to
go back to when I picked the Diamondbacks Cubs is
just some some weird energy as a matchup. Both of
those teams are off the charts. I'm playing bizarre games
just individually. So I retroactive credit to me on that
I picked Sikos this week in a in a rare departure,

(01:18:34):
but it's it's just it's gotta be Marlins. It does
like if Patrick is going to take Yankees rock Angels,
because honestly the rest of these aren't bad, no they there.
There really wasn't a matchup that screamed out to me
other than other than this. So yeah, you get a
Sandy lecontra versus TVD in game one. So that's always

(01:18:57):
good if you're the if you're the Angels and you
don't know, don't know who's going.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
You also Quantrell Control versus DVD.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Yeah, and uh, lastly, Edward Cabrera VERSU Kyle Herix pencil
it in. All right, all right, it takes us to
our game, Patrick, you're running this.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
Today's game is listener supported. Thank you to Andrew Scher
for helping us out, helping me out, thank multiple time responding, Uh,
so we don't have time to go to the booth today,
but we're going to do. This is essentially a variant
of the quarter hoole. Uh. Andrew supplied us with some
numbers which I have updated since he sent the Monday. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
This is basically we are doing a lightning round, but
the answers are only pertaining to the six worst teams
in baseball. So all of these questions hes are but
basically all team related. Uh, They're all relating to the Orioles,
White Sox, Angels, Marlins, Pirates, and Rockies. Yes, there, so
I will put that in the chat so you can

(01:19:56):
remember those six teams, was the answer?

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
The Inspire reverse one percentage to keep, don't.

Speaker 3 (01:20:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:20:03):
So so some of these will have player and team.
You get a point for getting the right team. Do
you need to close standings like? Is that she probably should?

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:20:11):
Okay, And so if you get a point for a team,
you get an extra point bonus point if you name
a player. All right, so the first one, Jeff, uh,
which of these six teams has the worst dr A
minus d r.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
A minus the Rocky is those weird things with the
park fact? Yeah, yeah, that's fuck it. I'm gonna pick
the Orioles.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
Okay, Craig, I honestly was gonna pick the Orioles. I'm
gonna pick the Orioles.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
All right, it is the White Sox with a one twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
I thought about the White Sox. Yeah, but there's a
lot of good options here.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
Yeah, which teams? Which team is the worst DRC plus, Craig.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
I'm gonna first let's see god mmm mmmmm, yeah, you
know what I'm gonna go with Hmm, I'm gonna go
with the White Sox.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Yep, Jeff, gotta be the Rockies.

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
I think, yeah, the Rockies.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
Yes, yeah, so have I wanted to go with the Rockies,
but I know d r C plus is actually nicer
to them on on adjustments than either OPS or w
r C plus, So not nice enough.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
Number three, Jeff, which team has the single least valuable
hitter by warp?

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
And you can get in point for naming the player.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
Hmmm, which team has.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
The worst single hitter? This number?

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
This one has changed since defense too?

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
Yes, it does include defense.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Yeah, god actually okay has been like they have to
play a lot too.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Yeah, they do play a lot. It's accounting staff. I
hate myself for doing this. Angels, Joe Adell, Okay, Craig,
I don't know how they how d RP likes him
this year?

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Tough because I really wanted to say, like Ryan McMahon
because but he's been better lately. Uh, you know what
I'm gonna go. Since we just said the Rockies are
the words, I'm gonna go with Michael Tola and the Rockies.
Two points for Craig. It is wow.

Speaker 4 (01:22:31):
On Monday, it was it was the Angels, but it
was not Joe Adell. It was Logan Happy because of
the all right, next one, uh, Craig, which team has
the most valuable hitter by warp.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
Among these six teams? In which.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
Mm hmm mmmm mmmm. I'm gonna say, but his defense
is bad. I'm I'm gonna say. I'm gonna I'm letna
say the Orioles and Cedric Mullins.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Okay, Jeff, I also cannot believe I am doing this.
I'm going to say the Rockies and Hunter Goodman.

Speaker 4 (01:23:12):
Mh it is the Orioles, but it is not. It
is not Mullins. It is a tie between Rushmen and Holiday.
They have one point one warp beach.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
Okay, yeah, honestly, the other one I was thinking was
potentially O'Neal Cruise. But I know his defense is bad.
That's what That's what held me back there.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
All right, Craig's up three to one, Jeff, which team
has the least valuable pitcher by warp?

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
Many options?

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
You're not gonna name the picture. I don't think maybe
you will. I wouldn't, right, So don't don't wait too
long on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
Okay, Well, I have to be creative.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
Then here.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
White Sox and Sean Burke.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Good, this is the least valuable at least, I'm gonna
what if we're trying to move fast. I'm just gonna
go with the first thing that came to mind, which
is the Pirates and Carmen Mojinsky.

Speaker 4 (01:24:09):
Well, Jeff, good job for making me look like an
idiot because it was white and wow.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Job, Jeff. Yeah, realize he's been that bad.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
He's been very bad.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Starter.

Speaker 3 (01:24:23):
Yeah, which team has the most valuable fielder by d
r P so far? Non catcher, non below time catcher. Yeah,
although actually it would include catchers. It just happens to
not be.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
A future Okay, Oh oh interesting, Okay, yeah, boy, that's
uh all right. I don't know, maybe he got off
to a bad start, but I feel stupid saying anyone
but Brenton Doyle and the Rockies. I guess. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
I will Jeff go with.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
Where I know he didn't get off to a good start,
but I don't know where else to go with it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Pirates and Jared Triolough.

Speaker 3 (01:25:16):
Jeff takes the lead with the point It is the
Pirates and Cabrian Hayes.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Oh yeah, that I got to and I got to
into my own bit there.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
Which team has the best run differential of these sixties?

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
Oh? Wow, yeah, that is what. It's a good thing.
I closed the standings. I did not see it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
It's me first on this one. Uh fuck, my ones
are lost and blowouts the Rocky. I know it's not
the Rockies. The Pirates, like has been scored more than
four runs.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
This is the best run differential, best run differential? Okays Angels? Okay, Craig, Yeah,
I I think I have to say that they have
just won three games. So I'm gonna say the Angels.

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
Yes, they weren't on Monday, but they aren't now and.

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
They Yeah, that was honestly part of what pushed it.
Who was it on Monday?

Speaker 4 (01:26:10):
I will not tell you yet which team is because
this next question, which team is underperforming? It's pythagged by
the most wins? Okay, Oh, so which team should have
a better record than it does.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
The most? Yeah? Okay, which team should have a better
record than it does?

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
It's like who's been the worst in like one round
games and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, it would be
very funny if it's the Rockies. I don't the Rockies.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
I cannot believe I'm saying this. I think it's I'm
gonna say the White Sox.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
I was gonna say the Pirates anyway, So okay.

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
Craig comes back to a tie.

Speaker 4 (01:26:51):
It is a tie between the White Sox and Rockies,
who are both three games, have eleven WINSA wow, they
were not, but I think lately they've been losing games
closer than they were before. All Right, Number nine, Jeff,
which team of these six has the highest chance of
winning there making the playoffs this year?

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
Making the playoffs Pakoda's projection, I say Pakoda's projection. So
it's gonna wait, preseason stuff still a little bit, So
I'm gonna go with the Orioles.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
Okay, great, well used suspend any bad Yeah, I'm gonna
say the works.

Speaker 3 (01:27:33):
Yeah, that's correct for both of you.

Speaker 4 (01:27:36):
Again, it wasn't three days ago, but actually.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
No, it was.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
It was three days ago. I'm sorry, this one didn't change,
all right, last one.

Speaker 4 (01:27:47):
There is one team this is the tiebreaker for the win. Actually, yeah,
they're both at six. There's one team that all the
Pakoda also gives a zero percent playoff odds. That is
not one of these six teams.

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
What is it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
Who's first? Me mean, yes, yeah, that is not one
of these six teams. Zero. Can I look at standings
not our standings? Obviously it's not fair. I just like
to look at the thirty teams.

Speaker 3 (01:28:23):
Well in the final list that doesn't have standings on it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
Okay, that's fine, I will do that because I'm just
like I'm gonna I'm gonna forget somebody. Uh way, that's fascinating.
I am going to say. I'm gonna say the Nationals.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
That's what I was gonna pick.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
I'm gonna say the actions. I mean, you can do
I do for the hero.

Speaker 3 (01:29:05):
Do?

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
I guarantee the tire do I go for the hero ball.
Let me think about this for a minute. Then Nets
do make the most.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
Just because of how the year and I know they've
been fairly bad, but.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
Yeah, they haven't been awful, but they've been bad enough, right,
like they might have a similar record to the Pirates
or at least close.

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
And I and I also I think Pakoda like last year,
really disliked the Nationals.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Yeah, like I don't. I don't have a better answer.
I got to go with the watching.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
Nationals so ty game obviously, but it is the Nationals correct.

Speaker 2 (01:29:44):
Well yeah, I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
All right, all right, well, you know, thank you and
thank you Andrew serious game. That was a good game.
I enjoyed that. Thank you Patrick for the updates and
for running it. And thank you both for hosting this episode.
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into another episode
of five and Dive brought to you by the Baseball
Perspectives podcast Network. You can get in touch with the
show at five and Dive at Baseball perspectives dot com.

(01:30:07):
We are wherever you get your podcasts. Search for Baseball
Perspectives Podcast Network and we'll be in that feed. Thank
you again. We'll see you next week.

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