Five and Dive, Episode 471: Midpoint Madness

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to episode or seventy one of five and dive.
It is Monday, June thirtieth. I'm your host, Jeffrey petteran astro,
and joining me as usual is Craig Goldstein. Not here
as not usual as Patrick debukkeh is on vacation again.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
The man is made of vacation.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, you have a but we have an unlimited PTO
policy here at a at baseball perspectus.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, absolutely, and whise of him to use it.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Lisa's not you know the trade deadline or playoffs or
are you?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Are you hinting at times? I have been on vacation
at this point.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
I mean I drove cross country during the trade deadline
three years ago, which you were now thrilled about.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, well, yeah it was tough. I don't think any
of us were thrilled about.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
No, none of us were thought about it.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
I don't you have any banter.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
I don't really. I had a very team weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
The kid had her fifth birthday last week, but we're
not doing the party for a while. But she's just
gotten like because we were at a town for.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Just because no one's home, right, I mean, like, yeah,
as someone with a summer birthday. Summer birthdays are.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
But we were like, also I got a town for
a bit, so like presents have just sort of been arriving.
So she gets like she asked me every day if
more birthday presents are coming today, So she's enjoying that
is what they are. They just it's just much stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, and it also ruins their brands, Like it just
straight up ruins their brands. Like they're just like, I
want more, and it's like, well, like these are actually
these are literally gifts, Like you're lucky.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
We're at the the planetarium yesterday, which of course a
gift shop, and she's just like every time we go
to a gift shop with this planetarium, children's museum, zoo, aquarium,
they all gift shops obviously because they're there to have
your kid pull you into them and say they want something.

(02:14):
But I tell you, like, you've just gotten presents all week.
You've gotten so many presents mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
And that's just the new normal, like new normal.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Immediately, she also brought back like maybe another ten stuffies
from my mother in law's house already do not fit? Yeah,
oh yeah, like all my wife and sister in law
is old like stitch stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Here's here's something that I'm going to put out to
you on that front. I you know, I don't know
how it works for for everybody, but we we went
to UH, someone hosted something for like the incoming kindergarten
class for for my older son's great and UH on
the way out to help get people out the door

(03:03):
sometimes or it's like to soften the blow that like
the playdate or whatever is ending, they have a basket
of things for kids to take with them. Yeah, right,
like and I was like, oh this. I was like,
you just stock these with the party favors from a
birthday party. And they were like, oh absolutely, ye we
do not want them. We have too much stuff and

(03:26):
this helps get kids out. And I was like that
is genius and also diabolical because it's just you're just
feeding it back into other people. And so yeah, but
I thought I thought I might have to do this,
like not that I'm hosting kids all the time, but
presumably over the years and like just like yeah, take
us mini Slinky on your way, Yeah, oh hit them out, yeah,

(03:53):
take three go on your way please. I thought it
was very clever.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, Well, onto the show. We are onto the We
are almost exactly halfway through the season, so our first topic. Whoaa,
we're halfway there, so these that one. Yeah, by the way,
I'm just gonna take a look at the you know,
the playoff situation, the league leaders, fun stuff like that.

(04:19):
Very like this is like our version of doing power rankings. Basically,
it's like the most uh normy content you will get
on this podcast. But our division leaders currently in the
National League will start there. Craig's pick for best team
in baseball the Los Angeles Dodgers, who now have the
best record in baseball once again.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Right because they briefly held that before the night game. Yeah,
and then's I felt I fell back Schooble. Uh just
absolutely ship housed between.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
And like it's like every time I look up, I
feel like they're losing a game they shouldn't. But they're
also like the Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
The Dodgers, Yeah, they well they have fourteen comeback wins
in June alone.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Fair enough. They also, yes, they were constantly losing well
like I mean like they lost like seven nothing to
the Royals on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Right, Like, no, no, it was well, it was that
they ended up losing nine to five.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Okay, yeah, fine, but like you know, bank Asparius giving
up Homers to Vini Pascuentino and things like that, and yeah,
and but yeah, they're just there's gonna be the Dodgers
the Cubs like briefly look to be. And there's still
they're only two up on the Brewers and three up
on the Cardinals or two and a half up on
the Cardinals, but they seem.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
To have is it an no Central good?

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Like I don't I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I think it might be. I know, like it's not great,
it's not great, but I think it. I think it
might be good.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
I just feel like none the Cubs might actually we
have some Cubs trade rumors later in the show to cover,
but like I don't know, Like the Cardinals are in
this like weird spot where they probably should push, but
they also probably should trade, like Ryan Helsley, like it's
like what do you.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, So look, I think I wasn't necessary of planning
on going here, but I do think this is the
new normal.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, right with twelve with twelve, wait till we get
to the AL but yeah, yeah, with.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Twelve teams making the playoffs, I think we're just in
a place where the only thing that makes sense is
teams buying and selling, right, and like you look multaneously
in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
You know, just looking at the wild Card teams right now,
and the Mats, who are obviously three and thirteen in
their last sixteen games or whatever, are eleven up. The
Brewers are ten, the Cardinals are nine, and you're right
behind them. You have the Padre's and the Giants, and
even the Reds are four games over now, right like yeah, right,

(06:52):
like what's gonna like it might take ninety wins to
get the one?

Speaker 2 (06:55):
And also I'm not sure that the Reds are good.
But but if you're gonna tell me the Reds are
going to be, you know, I don't know, Like me
is wrong.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
If they if they ever have their pictures healthy at
all the same time, which seems unlikely, but if they
had like Hunter Green, Andrew Abbot, Nicolodolo and Chase Burns
like all of a sudden, Yeah, Also Andrew Abbit is
just yeah, Andrew Abbott is I.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Didn't mean you weren't including him? And like Nick also
Nick Martinez took a no hitter into this. He also
lost that game, I think, But uh, yeah. I mean
I don't know that the Reds are good. They need
they need bets. But again, this is like a buy
and sell thing where where maybe I don't know what

(07:44):
the Reds exactly have.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
To trade, but yeah it Melia Pan.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, but they need it right outside. But but they
you know, they've done some decent work. You know, they're
getting great innings from Taylor Rogers and brent Souter, who
they got for basically nothing.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Uh, I don't know, this is I think this division
is is good, might feel aggressive, but but it's not bad.
And it felt like it was going to be bad,
right I felt this might like this might and once
again the Milwaukee is you know they're getting away with it,
right Yeah, but I I really I thought this might

(08:30):
be the Cubs and everybody else.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
I mean it was for a while they had they had.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
A soft schedule that month. I think I'm going off memory,
and they took advantage. That's what they're supposed to do.
I'm not This is like my version of of he's
hitting you know, pitches in the middle, down the middle,
that's what you're supposed You gotta hit those because when
you get them, you have to take advantage and and
I say that in part to say, like, when I

(08:56):
think their June schedule was tough, I might be again
I'm going going off memory, but I think their June
schedule was like not straightforwardly easy, and I think it
wouldn't surprise me if they can beat up on the
Central again later, even if the Central isn't actively bad.
I they're they're a very complete team outside of like, yeah,

(09:25):
I mean Daniel and and Brad Keller and Caleb Dilbar
have all been really good. Drew Promerance somehow, I don't.
I'm not gonna pretent Chris Flexen.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Chris Flexen, you finally have some runs.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
But yeah, yeah, he has a zero point six four
e r A. But like they're giving Justin Turner a
lot of it bats and you know, he ran out
of gas on his career and it's a bummer. But
so they you know, they can fix that. They could
potentially fix that with Moses Biasteros, sure, right, And I

(10:04):
don't mean just plugging him.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Into and Casey or they have options, like.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
They have a ton of options. But I guess part
of what I meant is they've got two catchers who
are still hitting the hell out of the ball, and
like bringing up by Asteros gives them the opportunity to
use those two as catcher and DH. Obviously they have
say a Suzuki at DH who's extremely good as well.
But they this is a deep team. I mean really
only third base is killing them and the bullpen, right

(10:32):
but you well, like you.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Say that, but also they've given thirty four starts to
Jameson Tyne, Ben Brown, and Colin Ray, all of whom
are below replacement by b Rough. Yeah, another eight to
Kate Horton, who's also been below replacement by.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Well, and that's I don't want to jump, but you
know there's been there's been Mitch Keller rumors here or
that they have interest in him, and I just like
that is you're just getting younger Jamison Tyle.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, but like they might just like he's still look
you know what version of like we.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Talked about this though, but like I don't think the
Cubs are necessarily the team to maximize much.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Color, but they just need a three four starter right
now to stabilize for sure, right, So, and they have
the upper miners pieces like they can trade a contra
and in case they don't really have spots for right now.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Man, I mean, we we gotta.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm saying James Trianto's feels incredibly pirates.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
I feel like I derailed this a little bit, like
the buying and selling thing, like they're look, they're going
to be buyers straightforwardly, but like it's it's a weird
pitching market to buy into it right now.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
It's like Teller. It's like Sandio Contra who's been better
recently but was also very bad in his last.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Start yet had a rough one.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Like I don't know if the Padres fade a little bit,
is Darling's going to be available, but there doesn't seem
like that. I feel they're going to be around.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I mean they're they're they're one game out of
a playoff.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Spot, right and like there's just not And like the
teams that are clear sellers, like you know, the White Sox,
Like who are the You're gonna trade for Adrian Houser?
Very good, but like are you?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
And the other part is the teams that are clear
was like the Marlins, even though they've run off what
seven and they did run seven in a row. Whatever,
it was like you could see a team maybe going, oh,
we'll we'll pay a bit more for Ryan Weathers throwing
ninety nine. But he's hurt. He's right, he's been hurt
and then he got hit in the head and he
had a shoulder thing. Like those guys just aren't even

(12:45):
those guys right right where it's like the multi year
guys aren't really.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Available, right like Edward Cabrera is still extremely Edward Cabrera right,
like ye, and what do you even but even do
with that?

Speaker 2 (13:02):
You're basically like, can we pluck someone off the Rockies
and hope not being in Colorado and not being like
Charters are just like her Mark has his throwing harder again,
I know, Matt Matt Trueblood wrote earlier in the season,
like Ryan Feltner.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, isn't he still? Is he back now or is
he still?

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I don't know, but you know, I'm just but this
is where you get to the buying and selling.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
But if you're the cub by someone from right, you
need to you need to raise the cubs specifically, I
think you need to raise the floor of the starting
Come on, Andrew Heaney. Yeah, it's like that's what we're.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Wonder if if the Orioles are gonna sell. Yeah, I
don't know if they'd move. He was.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
He's bad as last He's been very up and down.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, Dean Dean Kremer been pretty good.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Actually it's a really bad start getting heading back towards
the one point unit.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's a it's there aren't many
teams with this.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Are many good pictures, right, Like that's the other thing.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Like maybe Tyler Tyler Molley.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah maybe I don't know what, Yeah, I guess like
the peripherals there aren't great.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
No, but not but like, what what do you do?

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't have a
good answer for that. Yeah, but yeah, the centrals Holle.
I mean, look, I think the Mets have been awful.
I think the Phillies haven't been great themselves recently, despite
taking two out of three from the Mets a couple
of weekends or last weekend. I guess, yeah, like, boy,

(14:47):
I don't. I mean, I do entire podcasts about the Mets,
so I don't need to like labor this. But I
think the Mets are fine. Their issue is Look, if
you said any other team had you know, lost two
fifths of their projected opening day rotation before the season,

(15:07):
one of whom just got back, one of the who
am probably back in a couple of weeks, and then
in season lost three more pictures who had all been
pretty good, including Senga is on one who's definitely going
to be in the opening day rotation. I don't know
if mcgil would have been. But they also lost Canning
as well. Like that's tough, and that's like poorly timed
given this stretch against Atlanta and the Phillies as well,

(15:30):
having to use a lot of like Blade Tidwell and
Paul Blackburn. But you know they're going to get Manaia
Bac Senga. Stuff isn't really long term. I maybe Canning's
obviously out for the season.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Montess just came back.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Montes came back, had one good start, one absolute blow
up yesterday against the Pirates.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Welcome to Frankie Mantas.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yes, I know. Yeah, Look like the issue there is
the lineup more than anything else, right well, and.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
It's it's funny too because Soto has gone.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Absolutely yeah he's but like during.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
This free fall for the lineup, like he's been great.
I also think like as look, they're three the last
sixteen games they've won three times, Yes, three and thirteen.
That's really bad. The prior stretch they went.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Again, they were like a couple of games, couple of
games there, a couple of games.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Eleven, and then if you go further past that, it
was fifteen and three.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
So it's always bad when it's bad. And like you
look at you look at the the b REF game
results or whatever, the margin of losses.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's been the thing, right, like is there not scoring runs?
Some of it's bad sequence saying some of it's the
bottom of the lineup is really bad, which leads to
bad sequencing. And it was just like I think it
was this Saturday game like Mark Fiento's ended like three
different endings with runners on base and one Soto on deck,

(16:58):
and I guess Soda wants hit the finet's third, but
you got to find like a number two hitter, like
Jeff Bagailhi just hit number two.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yes he really should. He's also like the traditional old
school in a.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Not not anymore like now, but I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
But yeah, vibes wise right, like he's annoying.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
But they'll be fine. But like they've like they're in
the middle of it now, right, Like.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, how did you feel about the h the I mean,
I know how the the Gary, Keith and Ron felt
about but how do you feel about Carlos Mendoza's uh
buffalo metaphor? Did you not see this?

Speaker 1 (17:36):
I didn't see this?

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Now, Okay, there's there's a clip he apparently talked to
the team about.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
They they did the team meeting and then got blown
out on Sunday, which is never never good.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
So but so he said, buffalo don't like when a
storm is coming, Yeah, they they don't run away from
it and shelter.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
They ah, they get together as a herd and then
charge into the storm to get through it as fast
as possible. And so he was saying like, but we
just need to we need to go headlong into this
and get out the other side. Essentially, it was it
was a version of like the only way out is through, right,

(18:21):
But that I think it was Keith. I was listening.
But Keith is like, yeah, well that's why they're like endangered.
The like when they're getting shot, they don't run away
and Ron and yeah, Ron and Gary are just dying. Yeah,
And he's like, well, I'm just trying to be factual.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, that's that's some way. I'm sure Francisco Alvarez just
keeps pulling the ball in the air since they got
sent down to Triple A, which is very funny. Imagine that,
imagine like, yeah, I know again, I think they'll be
fine generally speaking, Like they've the back of the bullpen's
been torched and they're churning constantly, and like, yeah, you

(19:04):
would like after they took the last two of that
Atlanta series heading to Pittsburgh are like, Okay, the ship's
been righted enough, and maybe league is slipped by the
Pirates and now they have Jacob Zarowski on Tuesday. So
but yeah, they need to get the offense going more
than anything else. I think the pitching will sort itself
out in a couple of weeks. I don't know what
to do with these and ost teams, Like the Diamondbacks

(19:25):
are three and a half back. We want to include
them too, Yeah, but they just they don't seem to
be able to get just I don't think there's another gear.
It's that, yeah, they don't think there's another gear here.
But like the Padres and Giants have faded a little bit,
which is not you know, the Giants made their buy
move already. I don't know if they have another one
in them. I don't know what the Padres are going
to do.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, I mean that's we kind of I don't want
to say like we lost it, but in general, like
everyone kind of lost the fact that not that Kyle
Harrison was great or anything, but like the Giants' pitching stuff,
Logan Webb has been yep, terrific. It's striking out ten
per nine now, unbelievable. Uh, Robbie Ray has been great,

(20:06):
although he's still Robbie Ray, sure, but like landin Roupe
has been kind of batsliding a little. Verlander hasn't been good. Obviously,
Hicks is out in the trade and wasn't in the rotation,
but like you know, Hidden bird Song hasn't been as
good in the rotation.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Not a surprise at some point in the next.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, I'm just saying, like it was a trade. Look,
it was a trade I think they should have made right,
and it's not like but yeah, I guess it just
complicated their rotation stuff, even if Harrison was part of
that complication already.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
This, This is like a five hundred ish team to me, right,
you know.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, and that's like they might be petting in that
direction over the bouncy endeavor hasn't been great for them.
But again, it's you know, it's two weeks and it's
nothing particularly outside of his Yeah, I mean he's been.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Whatever, He's still walking a lot. I'm not particularly concerned about.
You know, I would expect maybe a hit to his
power you go from to it oracle oracle.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
I think that's what it's about.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Now. Yeah, you know that's not super surprising, but I
think I don't think he's going to hit two seventeen. Right.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, it's like it's just not a very deep team.
Like they've.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
We talked about the option Tyler Fitzgerald, right.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
They did. Yeah, they got like Dom Smith playing most.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Now crazy, you're at a Casey Schmidt, which we.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Very I don't Knowmber if we talked about it on
air at A but yeah, he is having a like
playing four different infield spots, which is very funny because
he's a very good defensive their basement. Obviously they have
match happened so well when he's healthy.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
When when he's healthy, yeah, I mean it just doesn't
You just don't it's the kind of stuff that I'm like,
I'm just not buying that it's gonna gonna hold up. Like, okay, yeah, fine,
Elliott Ramos again, Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Like he's having a nice season right, Like he's gonna
have a league one season.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Backsliding a bit offensively anyway, but he's still still fine.
Like I think he's a good player, to be clear,
but he's just he was doing very well. He's closer
to league average. Now, yeah, I don't know, I don't
I don't know. I don't know what to do with
the West Now, I guess my question. You won this

(22:40):
and we're just looking at a current player teams right now,
we have the division leaders. We haven't even really talked
about Philly.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
I do before just one more thing when we move
on from the Giants, because I have to BP prospect
team favorite Randy Rodriguez has been has been freaking unbelievable phenomenally.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, like one of, if not the best reliever and.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Like he might literally make the All Star Game as
like a middle reliever and will deserve it. Yeah, I mean,
like fifty one strikeouts and seven walks and thirty six
innings in a like Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Okay, so we're looking at at the season right now,
right like the halfway point that these are where the
slots are. It's the Dodgers, it's the Cubs, it's Philly.
Right now, you got the Mets in there. I'm giving
the Mets a slot, like I don't think they're probably
out of rotation. I just I don't.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
They may at some point in the next two weeks,
but yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Maybe, but I don't think. Again, this is a lot
like my take. I think the Dodgers are the best
team in baseball, and I thought that when they were
playing poorly. They're playing the Mets are playing poorly, They're
they're one of the best teams in baseball. I still
believe that the next two spots. I in my head,
I thought at all West almost you know, most likely

(23:50):
obviously you could before the season, I would have thrown
Atlanta into that NEX. Uh wouldn't do that at this point,
but you know, the way Sands Diego's looking, I don't
buy San Francisco obviously, Arizona, I just too many body
blows are these both and A central spots.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
I think the Brewers are going to make it because
they just this is what the Brewers do right, well.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
I think especially with if Mzowski is going to come
up and pitch, I don't expect them to pitch like this, yeah,
every time, but if it's eighty percent of this unbalanced,
that's a massive difference, man, they and they have. The
other part is, you know we were talking about Chicago,
but like they have the mid rotation pitching, some of

(24:36):
these other teams are going to look for they could
conceivably improve some of their lineup.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
I think they have their line up exactly where they
want it. Craig, it's like seven different versions of South Fray,
like I.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Can I know, and we ran it down last time
about like like it is all kind of over overlea average.
But I'm just saying they could get more depth. They
can get, you know, different pieces. I don't know what
you do with Joey Ortiz at this point. Yeah, I mean,
but yeah, I guess I'm just wondering if that's if
it's just central.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Spots at this maybe Like again, like I think the
you look at like the Cardinals, I think especially the
brewerst lineup is weird. Like the Cardinals just feel like
they're gonna grind out eighty seven eighty eight wins, and
that might be the.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Well, let me throw this. I'm looking at our projected standings. Yeah,
I'm not gonna list the division leaders. We got the Mets,
so so Philly is at ninety two. I will say
that just the Mets are at eighty nine and a half,
so they're they're kind of close. Saint Louis is at
eighty five, Milwaukee is at eighty three, San Francisco is

(25:42):
at eighty six, rounding up San Diego is at eighty five.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, like I think here's what happens when you get
all those teams those range, like a couple of them
are going to outplay it right and get eighty eight
and that's probably the numbers.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I don't right, I agree, Like
we're we're not getting multiple eighty five win teams into
the playoff.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Oh maybe in the AL I'm.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Sorry, which serves as a decent transit.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, this is like a little simpler to go through,
but also more complicated, like the Tigers are just going
to win their division. Division.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Well, so I do have some breaking news on the
Brian McTaggart is reporting that Jeremy Pana is headed to
the eye l with a broken.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Rib, broken rib or wrist rib. Yeah, I thought, Okay,
that's better than a wrist, I guess.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah. Yeah, although.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, yeah, and you have to y swing a bat
like it's a different kind of uncomfortable with a broken
rib than a broken wrist.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah. Well, and I like you generally worry a little
less about like weakness off the bat, right, but like
the rotation.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, we're going to get Bryce Matthews.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
That's that's I haven't even thought of out about that,
but that's where my first thoughts.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
They're also six and a half games up on the Mariners,
so I'm not like.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
They don't have to they don't have to panic, I guess.
But that's a good question. He's not to jump on
a future topic, but he is in the futures game.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yes, yeah, but like guys always get called up between
the oh, yeah, for sure, like every year.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
I think also like they I don't know, well, it's
Luis ki Yormant is just gonna stick around, Yeah, is
just gonna stick around, presumably because I guess you play
Mauricio Dubon.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah. Matthews two eighty five, four oh three, four ninety
two in sugar Land. That's you know, it's the PCL,
but it's a nine hundred oh bs.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah. Well, with Matthews, the thing is like, what's he
gonna hit for average? Because he is gonna walk and
he is gonna hit for power. Yeah, so he's gonna
hit to eighty. You've got a really nice Well, I don't.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Think he's gonna hit to eighty. Let's take a well,
you can take a look under the hood real quick
on Matthews. This is something I just it's.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Looking the I L for the astros for position players
is unreal. I mean, the reason Luis Giorman is here
is Rogers, Paiga, and Dezenzo are all on the ile already.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah. So, like there's some warning signs here in the
data for Matthews, Like he's got a thirty percent damage rate,
which is great. He got a one oh six ninetieth,
which is quite good. You know, probably a full tender.
You know, that's like a plus ninetieth.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's like what a full mile per hour over two probably.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah. His pull fly ball rate is not good, His
chase rate is good. His he contact is seventy six
seventy six percent, seventy six and a half seventy seventy
you want to give him for that and thirty nine
percent with against triple A secondaries.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
That's the tough one.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
That's it's like that's like serious hit tool collapse Rius
and the and like look he Like I was just
having thisnversation when I was on the Astros list before
ben Zeidman got hired by the Red Sox. We were
working on like some early stuff for it, and like
I like him, but it's like he's like Lucky Barrows everything,
Like when he hits it, he barrels it. Yeah, so

(29:14):
it's just can he make it up?

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Find Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's a valid question. So
so I cut you off because it was. But but yeah,
the Astros are going to win their division.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
The Tigers are going to win their division. Like there's
just now the Yankes, the Yankees, all of us said, like,
I think they're better than the Rays.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
I can't. I can't wrap my head around this race team.
I don't mean this to be like institutional raise, bigotry
or whatever, like I know, I know race fans are
going to see that, right, are going to feel.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Like, but no, this does not feel like the ninety
win version of the Rays right, like.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Race teams, Right, I'm not trying to take that away
from them, but like this doesn't feel like it to me.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, I mean it's a lot of Jonathan Ronda obviously
very good.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
He's a good player. He's he's a good player, especially
with that park, right, Like is it good? I've mentioned
it several times with Jacob Edelman wrote like this is
a this is a breakout waiting to happen.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Ah, And like they have like Brandon Lawe's having the
Brandon Lao season, Junior Camonaro is like taken that step forward.
Like I don't think he's fully it's not a llege least,
I mean he is.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
We do need to. I feel like we were ahead
of the curve because I've seen a lot of junior
records and I've been I've been talking about that since
he was at sixteen.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, it's very funny if he hits like it does
the forty forty season, but it's home runs and grounded
in a double plays.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, I mean a lot of this is I'm willing
to buy on on first base, second, and third, which
is around.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
It sounds like they're going to get Hassan Kim back
fairly soon. He's gonna start a rehab assignment and that's.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
That's gonna be. Yeah, that that could be a nice,
a really nice ad. Right. You know, Josh Lowe has
been good, he's very he's it was amazing two seasons ago, right,
really bad.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Like the thing like the thing here with the Rays
is and why they're not, I mean they're not doing
it like the Rays.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
They have made one start, Joe Boyle, that's not from
their top five starters. They've made every other start and
they're pitching ready. They're getting the most innings pitched per
start out of their starting pitchers. And look, the starting
pitching has been Yeah, I think unbalanced. Good but not great, right,
like Drew Aski said, has been great, but there's no

(31:47):
like Toash Bradley and Shane Bobs, who have not been amazing,
Like they give you a chance to win their pitching.
That's that's not a great part to pitch in obviously.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
So I think Ryan Pepio is good, is good. Yeah,
I don't know if I think Yeah, I mean three
six isn't great, but as you pointed out, it's a
it's a tough part he's not walking anybody.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Does not walk anyone. The most home runs of the majors,
he has a he has a three point six and
a five point one. Fit well, when you're in the zone,
yeah yeah, he's having.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Striking out six per nine. But when you walk one
for nine.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Right, he's having like the good Andy snastein season.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Basically, Yeah, it's very home Jose Lima, Yeah, good Jose Lima.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
And like the bullpen's been okay, Like it hasn't been great.
Fairbanks was good. Osset has probably been a little bit disappointing.
More than a little while disappointing. Eric Orgy has gotten
blown up his last couple of times out, but he
had been good for for a while. They're just gonna
they're just gonna throw, like he.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Talked about a little bit. Manuel Rodriguez really good. Uh
they do this Hunter is it big biggie. I don't know. Uh.
They got him in the trade with the Cubs. He's
been very good when he's been up. It's you.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
They just called up Paul Jr. Vass, who's interesting. Like
they just always they have guys right like that getting
relievers is not it is a biggie Bige Okay, so
like they're gonna and again like this is not I
don't think this is a great team. Like they're projecting
for somewhere between high eighties and low nineties wins. They'll
probably end up somewhere.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
We have them at eighty seven hair behind Toronto. It
was it was dead on eighty seven and a half.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, like sure, like I think I like looking at
this group of wildcard teams for the l and this
is a mess. Right, So there's functionally between the Rays
and the Red Sox. The Rays are the first wild rid.
The Red Sox are seventh overall in the wildcard race.

(33:49):
It's six and a half game spread, which is a lot,
but it wasn't It's not like it because they also
and not none of these teams are actually that good either.
So like if you get these plays, specifically, so if
you play six hundred baseball for a month, which you
know these teams around.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
And a half, six and a half is both a
significant amount and also we're stretching back to a team
three games under five hundred. Yeah, right, Like it's it's
just not like that's that's how many teams were kind
of covering. And two of the teams are three four
of the teams. If you're not, if you're over five hundred,

(34:30):
you're in a playoff spot right now.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yes, And look, I think like probably the Rays, Jays,
and Mariners can all end up over five hundred. Oh sure, right,
So it might just be like you look at this
and it looks That's why I said it's most simple
and complicated. There's a lot of teams in this.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
But well, okay, just if you want to tick off
so again, I don't. I don't know that I buy
the Rays this year, but I think they're at worst
the fifth best team.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
You're sure right. That's the other part of it, yeah,
is that.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
I shouldn't say it worse. I can't. I can envision
and this might just be stupid and holding on to
to recency buys or whatever. I can envision.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Texas, and yeah, I think Texas is the one of
of the Angels, Rangers, Guardians, Red Sox, also the Twins
in here. They're a half game behind the Red Sox.
I think, uh, the Rangers feel like a team that
can make a run.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Right And I've said this repeatedly. A lot has gone
right and they've still been bad. So I'm not counting
on it, but if you were asking me to envision
a scenario in which it happens like they have the
upper crust.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Talent, they have guys that have been very very good
and then not that distant past, right.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Sure, right, and and even they just have guys who
are good right now. Obviously Jacob de Ground is in there.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
They're they're you know, they're one three out of four
series went against the Marrigers from being in a wildcard spot.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Too, and everyone else here. You know, I talked a
long time. I thought Boston has the potential to be
the most like team come to the right in that scenario.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
And like the like like part of that baked in
is that all three of these top process will come
up and be like good, like not great, but like
Roman Anthi, it's been a lot better lately. He's up
to eighty five ops plus he's still hitting one ninety three,
but you know, he's hit it's been better recently. Five doubles,

(36:33):
five doubles already, you know again, it's he has he's
played eighteen games in his last three he's uh yeah,
and he's fixed for thirteen worth three doubles. Yeah, So
I think he will be fine. But again he's not
hitting the ground like you know, even or even Junior Camenero, right.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Like if you didn't get shot out of Canada. Right,
this is this is both not bad at all.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
You know, Campbell got off to a great start then
faded and it's now working in the first base And
the bigger.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Problem for the Red Sox is they've got and nothing.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, well, I mean part of it is like.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
They should trade jo Faari Rodriguez back to the Brewers
for for a you know, a mid rotation start.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
You know, Marcelo Meyers like straight it's again that his
strikeouts have been a problem. He is hitting for some power. Uh.
And then like William has been, I think about what
you'd expect reasonably, he's just like, yeah, he's just like
a good player.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Player, he's a good player.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Rafael has been a league average hitter.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
That's wild. That's that's absolutely wild. And again it's three hundred,
three hundred.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
But like with his defense, like he's been better this
year offensively than Jaron Durant, right, Uh, you know, Abraham
Torro has been good. Clos Narvayas might make the All
Star Game, Like it's been phenomenal, Right, but yeah, you
looked at it, and you looked at they had to
have you know, ten or how keving an ad r
as it stashed her right, Like that's very difficult and

(38:08):
you didn't think he was older. Last year, Walker Buehler
has been really mad.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I mean, one of the worst regular season pitchers in
the league last year, Yeah, and then was incredible in
the playoffs and he's back to be in one of
the worst regular season.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Chilido has been like fine on balance, Like.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Sure he's had some some you know, it's it's been
kind of I don't even want to say boom or bust,
but there's been some bust. I haven't been quite the
upside for boom. But like he's been either he's he's
ranged from like pretty pretty good to really.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
But like, yeah, a lot of this is like their
pen's been good. Yeah, but like you it's you got
to get them leads right and you got to get
to you got to get into the or all this Chapman, Garrett,
Greg Weiser, Justin Wilson is still around. Like I think
Justin Wilson is having like the Lake career Tyler Clippard

(39:03):
thing where he's just like you think he's retired, but
he's just pitching to like a two something era every year.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah, and well was it? Were there multiple justin Wilson's
at some point, So that's impossibly like I don't know
which I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Like I don't again, this one where I look at
it and like it feels it maybe even a little
lot more so than the I know, like it feels
a little chalky to me right now, Like I think
they might just be the six playoff teams.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
It's just so hard to make anything make a strong
case for any of the teams not in what but
but it's that's not complimentary to the teams that are
in because like you could easily make a case about
the teams that are in that they don't deserve to be,
but there's just no one to take their.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Place, right Like, and I think the Angels will probably
buy pretty hard, but also I'm not confident they will
with with what, well, not even with what, but getting who,
Like what are they going to do to like, Like,
I just don't there's like a bad deadline trade in
here for I don't know, I don't even know. Frankly,

(40:08):
they could use an their starter.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
What can they give up?

Speaker 1 (40:12):
I mean they can find like George Classen, and they
can find they trust me, they can find things to trade.
They always do. Yeah, but they're gonna try. They can
try to buy hard. Nelson Rada has been better this year. Like,
I don't know, man, but.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Like, how big of a mistake can you make with
Nelson Rada?

Speaker 1 (40:34):
I mean, yeah, sure, no, I know, but I just don't.
I don't know if they're gonna target the right player right.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Like this, this Logan o Hoppy line is it's Yeah,
it's insanity to me, two sixty five OLVP and he's
right about in the average. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Hey, the ball is not carrying this year, but it
is caring for Logano Hoppy.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah. And our boy Joe.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
I'm well aware, Craik.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
He's twenty doubles and twenty homers already. M hm.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
I'm just looking at like who's even been because I'll
be honest, I have not kept particularly close tabs on
the system.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
To the brewery, to Milwaukee for a picture.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Probably that seems like they could do.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Kyle Hendricks, Jack Connowitz, and Tyler Anderson have all been
pretty bad. Yess.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Anderson's mild your occasional Ryan Johnson update. He has a
two point three eighty are a as a starter in
tri City forty nine strikeouts and ten wats and forty fives.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, this this, I mean this league.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Kayden Dana. They are absolutely capable of trading Kid and
Dana at this Okay, yeah, that's what I could do.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
They've just turned read Debtmers.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Into Nathan Guy, which yeah, I mean it's a better outcome.
The next thing, like they've all been like him and
Zephyr John like chance great recently throws hard, but like,
yeah they have they're going to do something work. I
don't know why yet, but so.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Here's here's something I had been thinking about before. And
I'm not going to make you do it on the spot,
but I would be interested in like accepting the Dodgers,
and I guess maybe the Tigers, but I like, i'd
kind of be interested in making a case for for
some team, like each of us making a case for

(42:26):
a team to be great, like none, like we know,
none of these teams are are straightforwardly great, right, like
they're all and maybe it's just like throw it, you know,
can you make a case for a team that's not
a division leader or something like that, because I think
the Cubs you could.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
I mean, look at the the Mets go into the
playoffs with Senga Manayah homes.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Right, No, I think the Mets. The Mets would be
the obvious choice. But like, where else do you go?
Where can you if you want to, if you want
to squint to see it, can you see it anywhere?

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Because these teams aren't These teams are all like the definition.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Can you go you know, debate club? Yeah, can you
go out there and represent even if you don't believe
who do you? Can you make a case?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Who do you not want to play in the playoffs?
Like kind of thing, like yeah, maybe Padres this like
now Padres, at least if Michael King comes back, have
a good bullpen. They have two starters right there, right yea,
and like that they're bad, Like they can cluster it up.
They have guys that can hit homers.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean the top of the line
up alone. I mean they can they.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Can beat they can beat. Yeah, there's a team and
look they've done they've done this before, right, Like they've
played teams tough in the playoffs the last few years.
You know, they made the NLCS in twenty twenty two.
Like again, a very different roster now, but not that different.
Some of them are just three years older.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Houston is probably Houston.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, if pinioning.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Because you can throw, you can say you don't want
to face fromber and Hunter Brown.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, Pen's pretty good. They might get yourd on back
at that at some point.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, look, that would have to be part of their argument.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
It sounds like they're fairly aggressive on the trade market
right now. So, I mean Cam Smith's been camp Swith
has been pretty good. Hit a couple of home runs
against the Cubs, which is.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Found some power. Yeah that was that was good theater.
I mean that's good theater. Yeah, I don't know. I
just thought it was an interesting kind of thought experiment.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Little yeah, like camp Smith just like he's a better
version of this, and I think a more sustainable version
of this. But it did feel like like a four
year stretch they would just pop up a random outfielder.
They would have a season like this every year.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well I think Jake Myers.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Is Chase McCormick. Yeah, well no.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
But Jake Myers this year is is.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Ye still plus Yeah, Smith is hitting two seventy six,
three fifty four, twenty seven like good and the power.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
I was just talking about this with R. J. Anderson
and Zach Kresler, but we were talking about like, oh, yeah,
he's actually been pretty good, no power, and then he
popped off to.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Home right, and like he's the guy that tended to
hit the ball hard but not always at optimal horizontal's
prayer launch angles. And obviously he's in a park that
if he can start to pull the ball in the
air a little bit more, that's going to be uh,
gonna be beneficial to him significantly. He's been much better
at home. Again, these are not particularly but yeahs ops
by month again, this is the guy that basically was drafted,

(45:32):
Like you know this time last year was yeah, in
the College World Series or whatever, like just was finishing.
I hadn't been drafted yet. His ops by month six
seventy nine, seven eighty eight, eight forty nine, slugging by
month three seventy three, four hundred four ninety four, it's
the trending in the right direction. Yeah, Yeah, so that's

(45:54):
the al Just the quick survey of the top hitters
been pictures by Warp uh, not gonna be as surprised
this year Jojo Tani would cal rally and won Soto.
Maybe one Soto's a little bit of surprise, but he
just had like a twelve thirty open.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, not after that month to me, I mean, and
also like should be there, Yeah, no one, no one's
gonna no one's gonna blink at.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, people are.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
I guess maybe James would is maybe what people would
would blink at. But yeah, I also just you building
off this, he just got walked four times intentionally lineup.
But yeah, well for sure, no, I'm not. And it
was the Angels, to.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Be clear, the Angels like it's an extra inning game too, right.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
And again I'm not. But but you know, I saw
a lot of Alexandra Whitley wrote about it in box
wore banner a little bit, and and people talking about this,
and obviously Dawson had the five walk game and that's
the record, and it's as you said, it's a different
circumstance with the extra inings and and all that kind
of stuff. But like for a twenty one year.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Old, yeah, that's crazy because.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Like it puts it in a in a class with
and again it's kind of falsely there, but like in
a class with these these and he is a crazy
good player, but at such a young age to get
that difference even in these situations, even given the rest
of the national lineup felt, I don't know, this is

(47:17):
it's it was just wild to me. I think. I
think just even managers in general just don't necessarily give
them give young players that difference, right.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Uh. The other interesting note hurled up herdemo still the
best short stop by warp, despite RDA Dinghy in a
little bit in the new upgrade they did.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, I don't know what to do about Lindor.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Lindor I think passed him at some point, but also
the six d os since he broke his foot.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, imagine that. Uh yeah, I mean, and he's he's
what half a way up, which again like yeah, we're
in July, or we're about to be in July, so
I'm not gonna like get too assy about it, but
like it's well within the margin of errors. He's but
he's he's walking in a ton and he doesn't strike out.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Ye on the pitching side again, probably no surprises here.
Kerri Crochet, Cherk Scooble, Mackenzie Gore, Logan Webb in frambur
Bell does it is very funny that the Nats have
a top five hitter and a top five pitcher and
have been awful.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
So I think I brought this up the other day
and I'm not. We've gone very long, and I apologize. Well,
the Gnats trade Kenzie four, we're talking about no one, Like,
I think that's kind of the case to make to
a team because I think the team controls as big
as you think at this point and there's no one

(48:48):
out there.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
But like, what again, I'm killing but again, like they
basically nailed the one Zoto trade, right, like as much
as you.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, I think they did as well as you can
do it.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
You can't.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
They should have done it, and I think they did
as well as you can.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
And a few years later they're still they have made
the playoffs and they're like fifteen games hundred founder like,
and you do it with Gore, Like they don't do
the stuff around it well enough. You can't just do
this trade and like that's not how baseball works, right, Like,
you can't just make one trade and suddenly cut down

(49:24):
your the other stuff you need to do as a
rebuilding team and you look around it, and they just haven't.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
So also I might done it. I guess I also
might have thought he had one. He entered the year
with exactly three years of service.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
So two and a half years.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah, Okay, that's probably too early. I guess I thought.
I don't know. I also don't know that he's consistent.
See for me, I don't know that he's consistent enough
that if I could trade him at peak, which he's
peaking later than he normally, you know, he's he's remaining
at peak longer than he has in previous seasons, and

(49:59):
there's just nobody, yeah, out there who's really moving the needle.
And I would have some trepidation if I'm mcclaring him
about whether he does that. But there's no argument that
what he's done thus far is.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Right and doing that right. And you look at the
state of the Nats right now, and you know that's
that's a good division. They're a bad team.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Well and this is the Marlins, aren't they? Yes?

Speaker 1 (50:25):
And their system, I mean like their system has fired
most of its bullets at this point, at least in
the New York term. Like maybe Travis Dekora moves quickly
Susan is obviously hurt. Britdy houses up and has not
been pretty good. You know, Luke Dickerson's a mid fifty
season fifty candidate but also is a twice ways away.
And then look, they're probably gonna take a prep player

(50:46):
number one this year too. So like the timetable here
is it's pretty far out. Yeah, so I don't like, Look,
they're gonna run into this problem with James Wood in
a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yeah, well this is this is kind of like I'm
not trying to I don't like it when teams just
operate as as pharm systems for everybody else.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
The other thing is like the Nets can just spend
money that they won't anymore. But like they have their
their big market team.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Well that's that's the act.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Like they can they can put guys around Gore and
you know, you can go out and signed and cease
right this off season and they can go out and
do that.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
They did, you know, they actually did that once.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
And yeah, like they get like they can go out
and sign those guys you know they got and signed ceased.
They can go out and sign you know the best.
I think, go sign Alex bregmant right, if he opts out,
mm hmm, you put him at third base.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
That's that's actually now all I don't want to get into.
I know everyone, I know he was on Houston guys,
I know, but like if you want the veteran leadership angle,
you know, as part of that, and also third base
has just been a freaking black hole of the franchise,
that's actually a nice.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Little fit, right, And look, it's gonna cost a lot
of money. Oh yeah, but like they have all these
guys on pre ARB. You know, even Gore's gonna be
into but it's gonna go like it's gonna go up.
But like it's my first year ARB, Like it's not.
It's not a ton of money. Yeah for sure, it's
three points. So yeah, like that's what they're gonna have

(52:24):
to do to compete and say, I.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Find that I want to be clear to everyone, Like
I find that a more convincing thing to do. But
I guess in my head is if you're not going
to do that now and I don't mean that, but
this off season. It has to be this off season
because as you're as you're saying, you're gonna be at
this position, in James with with James Wood in a
couple of years. You're c j Abrams, how much how
much time does he have?

Speaker 1 (52:46):
I think he's a bad I think he's in our
I think he's our one this year. I think it's
three something.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yeah. Uh, he entered this year at two point one
to three, so he'll be just he's thirty days thirty
forty days, shy of of So yeah, he'll be in
He'll be.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
In our Yeah, this could be super so.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
I mean, but the clock is ticking, the money starts
going up for these guys like you, you have to
supplement and and augment or else you need to capitalize.
And again, the only reason I'm I'm saying this is
a combination of they haven't as you said, they fired
the bullets, and it's not working right now. And look

(53:25):
it's early for it not to be working, but you
have to you have to adjust. And and secondly, it's
just there's no one else on the mark.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Yeah. And look the other the other thing is like
this team has been vaguely up for sale, right, so
are they going to really sign those long term deals before? Fine,
Like it's it's a weird situation to be in uh yeah,
some mon larning notes. On the pitching side, Paul skin
is only eleventh. He's not quite it's more of like

(53:54):
a contact suppression may not that he still misses baths,
but it's a little more of a contact supression profile
this year. I guess I I think that's.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
What it is. It's also he's he's less than half
a win behind fromber sure, so like again, margin.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Of error is that he didn't have like a great
start last time either, right again.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Right, he's right, and and he I mean Mario wrote
about this how he he was never really the thirty
three percent strikeout rage that he was last year, and
and he's explicitly said Schemes has explicitly said, like I'm
going deeper into games like I want to be that it's.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Funny because I'm he is. But also, like the Pirates
on like like monitoring its, they pulled him pretty quick
and he had great again he.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Did earlier in the season he was getting but.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
They're going to keep him on like a I think
a pretty strict innings and pitch count the rest of
the way, because why not. But also because like man
the Pirates, we'll talking more about the Pirates in a minute.
Another ould Chris Boubage fifteenth.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
It's just good man. Just the Dodgers got him yesterday
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Yeah, he's just good, good, He's just good.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
And he shout out to the Royals.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Yeah, like they're like, I guess.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Out of Lugo. Another secon An good year out of
Michael Waka, which no one's ever done. No one's ever
gotten a second straight good year out of Michael Waka,
no one. Cameron looks pretty good.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Yeah he's not missing a ton of mats no, but
like he looks like a he wasn't.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
The top of the rotation guy. I'm not talking about that,
but like, looks pretty decent. Chris Boubach, who couldn't. I
mean like it was like, here, go be a reliever,
figure it out there, and then just boom, you're in
the rotation and you're good. Now.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
They probably traded Brady Singer at the right time. I
don't know if they maximize the return there, but whatever.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I mean they needed. I guess I haven't looked at
what Johnathan India's OBP is, but they needed funny. That's
better than most of their teams I know.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
And they're not worse there, it's worse.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Than he normally is, but it's better than most of
their team.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Obviously they're kind of a mess otherwise right now. But
as I said, didn't really mention them, what cud race.
They're five games under at this point.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Yeah, they've they've just I mean they've had they had
a great run at like late April to yeah to
early May, right, and then just desolate.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
And yeah, it's the same like Bobby Wits Bobby Whit's
not having the ten wins season this year, he's only
having the seven wins season, right, Like mikel Garcia has
been great, having a breakout, you know, past Ventino has
been all right, and then like pres has been bad,
Michael Massey, my god, But it's the outfield. Yeah, it's true, Waters,
Kyle as Bell and Hunter Renfro again.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Yeah, I mean like as bad as Massi is. Like
you can plug India who hasn't been good, but.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Like Jack hasn't been great since.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
That's understatement, yes, and he's slugging two seventy one right,
really bad. Yeah, the outfield has just been an absolute disaster.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, they just can't like it's an he's seven ops
plus for the team, and like as good as the
pitching's been, like, it's tough to consistently went that way, right.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yeah, I guess they're another team. Maybe they just resigned
Walker did his trade.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Waka you look into Lugo's contract is very weird. If
I recall, it's a twenty Yeah, it's a twenty twenty
six player option, which he's probably going to opt out of, right, so,
but it does make it weird to fifteen million dollars
player option. It does make it weird to trade for him.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
I feel, like I talked about this at the time,
they really did an impressive job of rebuilding that bullpen,
that bullpen with nothing entering the trade deadline last year. Obviously,
the Ursa trade I thought was an absolute heist. But
even even a Stevens, which I was it was a
good fit for his the park, for his skill set.
But like, he's been very good, Daniel Lynch has been good,

(57:54):
Stephen Crews has been good. Even John Shrever like he's
been fine. Yeah, but but the number of guys they
have to turn to in that sense is again relatively
impressive for a team that really had no bullpen.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Yeah, this time last year but they just they can't
score runs.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
They cannot score runs.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
They cannot score runs. All right, we went pretty long,
so let's take a break and we'll come back with
our last four topics. Welcome back, Episode four seventy one

(58:44):
of five and five. Our second topic Sackfeld foul follies.
So I didn't get it, the zig failed follies. All right,
theatro it's not great. It's not great.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
No, that's not great.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
It was very late last night.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Understood.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Lis Everarno is not a fan of pitching in West Sacramento.
Basically compared it to a spring training facility, which I
mean it's a Triple A.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Park, right. Spring training facilities might be nicer.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Yeah, someone that might.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Be especially in Arizona, you know, they're pretty.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Might be cooler too, especially right right now. RELATIVE mean
maybe not, but uh Arizona, Yeah, I know a Sacramento
can get. It's high desert. I'm familiar with it. So
there's been like the athletics are mad that he's saying
these things. I just they're all true, but they and yeah,

(59:41):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Look, there's there's obviously a level of like you're you're
not wrong, You're just an asshole. Yeah. I mean, also,
who's the real asshole? Right?

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Like I get that he to an extent should have
known what he was getting into. But also I think
it's been worse than even like the players could have
expect it reasonably well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
So I think that is a crucial part of it.
And also crucially the Athletics should have known what they
were getting into when they when they opt they opted
out of a bad but major league stadium for a
Triple A park to share with a Triple A team.
That is, Look, it's it's a little bit of the

(01:00:23):
the Devers, like there's no one, no one is fully
right here, but to be very clear, Severino is the
least wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Yeah, and look, he took more money than he would
have gotten and the look Athletics, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
You know, pay you to shut up about the state
of things. And and I'm understanding, I'm not sympathetic to it,
but I'm understanding of that viewpoint.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Sure. My point too is like this is, and I
said this I think probably a few weeks ago, like
where is the union and all of this?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
That is a great question, And I get.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Like for reasons will come on to and around the
horn why they're not maybe trying to start the saber
rattling stuff, you know, a year and a half before.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
The If they're not, then it's then they're the only.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
One, right, They're the ones that can do this. And
they did this before.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
No I'm saying they're the only ones not starting the receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Yeah, uh, they did this before when the Mariners couldn't
play in the was it the Kingdom or whatever? Right?
When they were fair they they have been fairly stringent
on you know, what qualifies like a major league stadium,
major league conditions right for you know, it's essentially working
conditions what we're talking about, right, right, And they should

(01:01:39):
be advocating for their members in that regard, Like they
have a CBA that sets out what, you know, what
the stadium qualities have to be, right, more or less.
It's something we see in the minors two with the PDCs,
So I get that aspect of it. Like the thing
that's funniest to me is days are like, yeah, we're

(01:02:00):
going to trade him now, Okay, good luck with that.
You paid him a lot more money than he probably
would have gotten elsewhere, and he's been very bad, Like
you are stuck with each other.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
I guess again, there's no pitching, and he's been decent
on the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Road, right, but he's actually got a worse The cury
Field is actually worse on the road. And they are
at home.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yeah, you have.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
A lot of home runs at home that parks on
the well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
And the other part to your point about about where
is the union in this, like if they're going to
spend money on a guy, right, and then kind of
I don't know that they're instigating the conflict, but like
they've created a less than tenable situation. I don't know
if it's untenrible Okay, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Nobody is going to actually do nobody actually can or
will do anything here, right because every you know is
still getting is whatever is three and you know, but.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
I'm just saying in terms of the conditions, right, they've
created a really bad environment both to just like to
play and to be and whatever. And then they're going
to offload the contract like that was the money they
claimed they were spending to earn their percentage of Like

(01:03:14):
how does that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Work, right? I mean it's it doesn't nothing about the
a's works. So yeah, I'm looking forward to our next
groundbreaking ceremony in six months when they have to show
that they're making progress or whatever to keep the state
from making the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Rent a cat, you know, a caterpillar or whatever and
just have it drive back and forth over something that's
not happening. Perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
A third topic rumor has it it's sick. We're into July.
We're almost in July. Tomorrow is July.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
When you're listening to this, it'll probably I don't know
your schedule, the rest of the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Probably probably be July. So it's that we already obviously
had a big trade, but we're starting to get trade rumors.
Cedric Mullins to the Astros. Is one a centerfielder, so
you can play well.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
My again is a good glove, but they need a
left fielder. Sure, although I guess I don't know what
you do with al two you moving back to second
playing there all two basement standing Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
And dhing affair bit I think, well with that actually
makes sense? Yeah, Well let's see where jose L two
bay has him playing like he hasn't been great.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
He's good. I mean it's a he's a thirty seven
starts and left and twenty four at second and twenty
one at D. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
His last five games he played four at second one
at DH he might just be their second basement again
given that Brendan Rodgers and it's just everyone's everyone's hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Like second, if we're not getting Bryce Matthews, we're getting
Shaye Witcombe.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
So yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean, like you look
at their Bradfield's actually been fine if you consider L
two A Myers and Smith their outfielders. But also that's
not really yeah a second losing pain, Yeah obviously hurts,
but yeah, like Brendan Rodgers, the sixty six ops plus

(01:05:19):
Maritio dub dubon eighty, de Denzo is hurt could play there. Theoretically,
I think he played there maybe a little bit. He
is not this year is a ninety four.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Well, but the other part is like he gives them flexibility,
right because he can he can play center. Obviously he'd
be very good in a corner defensively, yep. Right. And
so a lot of the trade that they were making
and putting L two a out and left was they
were improving their second base defense. And we saw that

(01:05:52):
in the numbers early and defensive stats are noisy, but
like their second base numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Were, their left field numbers made a left handed bat
because that's a very right handed leading lineup. Without that,
that's the other part I was going to And again,
it's a rental. It's not going to cost him a ton.
The Astros and Orioles probably have similar views on pitching
and things like that. They're going to have guys that
the Orioles will have interest have interest in. So yeah,

(01:06:22):
that makes a lot of sense. And the Pirates are
for ken Rosen, though I think the Pirates are willing
to trade anyone other than Paul Skins, and a miss
Keller trade is likely.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Well, and again we've got some reporting the Cubs have
been talking to them about Mitch Keller for the last
week or so. You know, they're obvious to trade David Bednar.
I think this year it's been very good lately.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
They finally will trade him. Yeah, you better trade him.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
When he and a half The interesting one to me,
I mean, I think they'll trade Mitch Keller, and I
think a lot of teams should be interested in Mitch Keller.
Do they treat it? Do they trade O'Neil Cruz.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
He's another one of I mean, we just talked about
him last week when we went on that segment, right
He was kind of the impetus of that segment of like,
how do you value that guy?

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
I don't know. I think teams will be interested. Yeah,
given the here's the control and the overall skill set,
like you can't find you can't find guys like this,
Like for the most part, he's still pretty young.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
He's just going to be He's not a free agential
twenty twenty nine.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Yep. I don't know what the relationship is between the
player and the team and the org right now, given
the you know, not running out the double playball or whatever,
and what.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Do what do you? I mean, the thing is like,
let's say you have os, Yeah, what do you ask for?

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
He didn't ask for the world right season? Yeah, this
is I can't think.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
And you have to ask for essentially an another good
young major leaguer.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Yeah, like yeah, so teams that could use I mean,
the center field is not in great shape right now.
Mets are an obvious one. Phillies are an obvious one, like,
and they don't have.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
The artist, Like, I'm not sure he's a good center
fielder defensively.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Well, Oway likes him, are right, and he's got he's
like eight eighty runner with a seventy arm like he
hasn't hasn't played there a ton yet you do like
it feels like he could get there, like he can
play center field. I think, what do you if you
use that as like the the baseline, then yeah, I
don't like It's I cannot think a player has been

(01:08:42):
dealt with that much like that isn't like you know,
like the one sodoed right right, but by one so
is investitors in baseball when he was dealt. But it's
just very rare to see a young good hit or
dealt with that much team control left. So I don't
even know how you begin to m Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
I mean the thing is like the kind of team
that I think could make that move is like the Cubs,
but they don't need the outfield. They have too many
outfields outfield.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
The Tigers, you know, they have they can put the
they can put the package together.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Oh you know, no, they can. They can afford it,
like they can shop in that aisles. As people like
to say. The question is like, what do you what
are you saying they don't have the young established major
leaguer to send that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Yeah, I don't think you're doing for Parker Meadows right, right,
But I mean if you trade, you know, it's very
likely that Risano, McGonagall and Clark are all going to
be in double A fairly soon, so all of a sudden,
you know, I don't think it has to be like
that's also the pirates. Are they gonna want a player

(01:09:54):
that already has service time?

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
What's the point of we go back? I mean having
Paul Skins if I know? Okay, So yeah, I mean, like, okay,
I think I think mcgonagh goals, and I'm not the
most informed person, despite where you you can correct. I
think mcgonag was probably the top prospect.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
He's number one on our mid season fifty.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
I want to be clear, I have not seen that list,
so like I'm just I'm just talking.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
We have not circulated yet. The're probably later this week,
but like, yeah, he is the way we talked about it.
And look, there are others you know, you can make
a case for. I'll say, in our early Canvass thing,
there were cases made for Leo Devrees for his Mayday
Bubba Chandler.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Okay, okay, actually you want to know who the interprise
it's in division. That's tough. But Milwaukee is the interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Yeah, they're not can see the division, I don't think,
but yeah, you got Maday at least pain It is
probably going to make the top fifty certainly, maybe higher
than that. And they have a lot of other guys due
they got arms brayln Pains off to a good start
this year. He is one of the top three or
five best systems in baseball. So yes they can.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
So that's what I'm saying. But like you also look
for a team that might really need a bat. Tampa
can Tampa.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Tampa Is they capable of doing this? Like they've die. Yeah,
they're in a weird spot and they have you know,
they're not gonna trade Junior Kimono. I don't think I
can't do that. And they don't really have the other
Like it's tough with how bad Carson Williams has been
in triple always been better recently to kind of Really.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
It's tough, But Pittsburgh wants bats.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Right probably, you know, like who has Mariners. They just
got a lot of you know, Cole Emerson, Ramantas. They
as guys they can throw that. I like to varying degrees.
Michael Royo corner outfielder, fell In Celestine and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
That, and that maybe you put put him in a
corner in the right because Julio, you're not.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
The place that's interesting. And look, the Marrors have been
a little more aggressive. They live with the trader for
Rose Arena, right, like they've done a little Yeah, I
don't know, that's that's an interesting I don't know who else.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Also, also, also could they talk themselves into like obviously
it hasn't been quite as bad this year bats wise,
but like just he hits the ball so hard it
doesn't matter that there's a marine layer, right kind of thing? Right,
can you talk yourself into that?

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Sure, I don't like they I think that's I'm sure
they'll make other trades, but it's the they trade Adam
Fraser to someone keep keep him around.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Yeah, I mean, you know, the other team I've been
thinking about is is Toronto, but could probably use another bat.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Well, they actually kind of had the I read about
this a little bit in the Johnny King uh right, yeah, impact,
like they don't bats like Nimela's what I get. I
think the breakout of mostly real hair. But after Nimmela,
I gets it's tough, like I like Josh Kasevich, but
like it's really the second piece and a shortstop you want.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
I don't have anyone on the major league level to
do this with, right, that's the hard part. And and
I know you don't want to box yourself in, but
like if you want to go back to the Soto trade,
like they got Mackenzie bore right, Like that was a guy.
They got c. J. Abrams who was in the majors. Right,
he was not established, but he was in the majors

(01:13:30):
showing something.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
So like Addison Barger for this. He's a little bit older.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
Do I think the Pirates do? I like, first of all,
I love Adamson Bargors. I've liked him for a while.
I buy this as.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
A very Pirates too.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
He is very like I mean again they went and
did a three team trade for yeah, but like should
Addison bar I mean, look, you could convince me Addison
Barger is a better player than O'Neill Cruz.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Sure right now, I like you the case, right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
You could get me, you could, you could get there.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Well, I'm sure more on that to come. For now
we will go around the horn. Some sad news over
the weekend. Dave Parker recently elected to the Baseball Hall
of Fame in like a month out of induction induction died. Yeah,
just I thought the I was watching the Mets broadcast.
That's really where I learned about it, and I thought,

(01:14:25):
h Gary and Ron is obviously Ron played against him
a little bit. Uh did a great job with it,
and is like, that's tough. Like, I'm glad he got
the call right, like that he knew that he was
a Hall of Famer.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
But he's like that has been the thing for me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
You do miss out on, like you know, the celebration
part of it at the but.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
At least he knew, right, I mean, that has been
the shame of so many of these guys. And and
it was I mean, you know, you see that flash
across your your TV or your timeline or whatever, and
it was he wasn't that old, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Now he was in the seventies, man.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
Yeah, but like certainly, you know, I don't know, it
wasn't It wasn't crossing my mind that we were on
the brink of losing him. But that's kind of been
the consolation to me, was that he knew he got
the call right, and and he knew that so that
that was at least a little bit of a silver lining.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
Speaking of someone that's been picking up the phone probably
a little too much. Rob Manfred talked to at the Athletic.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
No, I don't know that he did. I mean, like
he talked. There was a quote from Drelik, but a
lot of these quotes were from Sports Business Journal from
a week ago. Okay, yeah, I saw this a week ago.
And and what Sports Business Journal and put out was
like just bullet points of quotes and gave at some
talk but Drelik and I'm not no shots at Evan.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
To be clear, he found the talk or whatever, right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
He found the notes and he and he credit no
small feet. He got a link to another organization in
uh yeah, in the New York Times. Okay, no small
feat And he did pick up the phone and talk.
He called Manford about some of these quotes. And then
also I think listen to an investor call that he
did with with Atlanta or something. You know, Terry mcwork

(01:16:14):
was quoted throughout this repeatedly.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
But go ahead, I'm sorry, yeah, basically, just you know,
some some strategy perhaps for the upcoming CBA negotiated some
conversations with members of the union about who the union
is representing? Well, right at this point in time. One
thing I know, Look, I'm not a lawyer. I didn't

(01:16:40):
go to law school. That you've worked in a law
office before word, you have worked at a law firm.
Is it considered a good idea to take negotiating advice
from your adversary.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
Rob Manford would tell you yes, yeah, yeah, so right,
this is uh, I mean not to dig dig into
politics or whatever. This is also like why why are
democrats always getting advice from from Republicans on how to
do things right? And it's a very similar kind of thing.
No one should be taking the advice of the other

(01:17:17):
if you represent who you represent.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
I don't know if I I don't know if it's
like I find the Rob Manfred quotes about this or
the New York Times not at page more infuriating on that.
On that note, but like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
So I said this online Rob Manfred is is talking
to it is I guess specifically, it's bizarre how candid
he was this.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Well, there's no like, yeah, I don't know, man like
it just he doesn't care. He doesn't care, he does
this is one of those kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Like there's no shame things like you don't they don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Why not like you do? What is it you missed
one hundred percent of the shots you don't take basically
try to casually break the union before the right because
he's got like the ownership.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
He's very much walking up to people with like a
physical we like you know how how Elon walked in
with like the sink or whatever and it was and
I don't even remember what the contextuff it was, but
he's walking up with like a big wedge and it
says issue on it, and he's just walking up.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
To well better than like the forty five he was
going to use apparently let that sink.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Yeah right, Yeah, it's just it's just a gun chef.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
It's not just a guy, which, by the way, he's
still using he's going to yeah, this is what he
is doing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Yeah. So so I don't know if you have the
quotes in front of you. I don't, but one of
them was essentially it was essentially I'm talking to younger players,
yes and telling them, you know, uh, like was it
ten percent of the players take home seventy two percent
of the the earnings salaries something like that. It's I

(01:19:04):
might have the specific numbers wrong, but I think it's
something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
There seems to be a kind of a mismatch between
what we see at the union leadership level and what
the players are thinking. Manfred said, the strategy is to
get directly to the players, right, So.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
That is that is literally I'm trying to make a wedge,
right like that is. But but the okay, so he says, yeah,
ten percent of our players earned seventy two percent of
our money. The commissioner says, for his second point, I
usually try to avoid the high earning guy at this
point and find a younger player and say, look, if
you're one of the ten percent, it's a great deal.

(01:19:37):
But if you're the other ninety it ain't so good.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
And that is no, no, you got to read you
got to read the next line.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
What that is?

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
That's there wasn't immediately clear how MLB calculating figure.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Okay, but okay, if you're one of the ninety percent,
it's it's not so great, right. That's and we can
absolutely look at union leadership and the and their priorities
over the last twenty to thirty years.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Yes, and I will say I think they made very
good strides in that direction.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
They recalculated in the last one for sure, and also
they wanted more in the last one. They did not
want to agree agree to the CBA that was agreed to.
Twelve people voted, twelve representatives voted against it, twenty six
voted for it. All eight of the executive committee members
voted against it. And it actually wasn't about the top

(01:20:26):
end people, right this. Look, I agree the union did
not have their heads done straight, and we're not thinking ahead,
and we're underestimating their opponent or overestimating the value of
labor piece over you know, twenty to thirty years ago.
But also and look, I have not loved everything Tony
Clark has done, but that largely wasn't Tony Clark. That
was Michael Wiener before him, and Donald Fair before him.

(01:20:49):
And they they in that twenty years of labor piece
or whatever it was, twenty twenty five years, they lost
a lot, and they kept trying to the thing that
they tried to hold onto the most was free agency
and creating that value.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
And they did for the most part until they did.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
But they like themselves vulnerable to this criticism. But what
I have to say about this is Manfred said. The
first point he makes, by the way, is over the
last twenty years, the slowest growing salaries among the four
major professional sports is baseball.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
Because you continue to fight.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
And when I make that point, what I usually say
to the players to me that that's a failure on
our part. And I want to say, that's not a
failure on your part. That is a success on your part.
I understand that the hot dog meme guy we're all
looking for, the guy who did this is played out,
But you're the You are the literal lead negotiator of

(01:21:48):
the side that made that happen and actually spent the
last CBA trying to prevent progress for young for the
youngest and lowest paid players that the union was pushing for.
And because but he said, oh, they're just not willing
to trade from the top end. And it's not The
demands are fucking insane. And if you pay attention to
any of this stuff, you know that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
But you, Rob Manfred, this has been a recurring themeous
he thinks you're an idiot. Rob Manfred thinks you're an idiot,
Right I do. I did enjoy as long you're talking,
Rob Manfred Labor metaphors. Our free agency is like the
baton death March.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
Again, whose fault is that you can just say, like
Bryce Harper and Manny Machado out until February, it was
not Scott Boris.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
This is all setting up the argument for a salary
cap that they are not going to win.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
It's it's a salary cap that they want. They want
a free agent deadline, and the reason they want that
is because teams push players in. They will put all
the players into the same spot at once, and team
and players will be left out and have to negotiate
against each other to sign a deal at all, and
the teams will have a much bigger better fit off
of that. I understand that people like the NFL free

(01:23:03):
agency and like the NBA free agency where it's like
four days of everything going on at once, But the
reason is they have they have a limited a legitimately
limited amount of money that can go anywhere, and so
it's it is just chaos like that. MLB doesn't have that,
and I think I can argue pretty convincently should not
have that. But the thing is it is used for

(01:23:26):
their advantage. Like as much as as as Manfred can
say and point to all the things the union got
wrong in a lot of this stuff. Right, he says,
my first deal, where I was chief negotiator in two
thousand and two, we were spending sixty three percent of
our revenue on players. Today we spend about forty seven percent. Again,
that was due to Rob Manfred and his effectiveness as

(01:23:46):
lead negotiator. And it's why he's the commissioner. Yes, so
you think he's suddenly by the way, if he's pushing
for a salary cap, it's because he knows he actually
has nowhere else to go from forty seven percent. He's
not winning that. They proved it last time. He's not
gonna win more money from the players in terms of

(01:24:08):
percentage that the owners get to keep. Right, he right
sized that and whatever you want to call it. But
they the reason he wants a cap is because he
knows how beneficial it is for the people he represents.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
And again that's what you started with, Right, Why would
you take that guy's advice on this? I look, I've
talked to people who sit there and say, like, the
PA has done such a bad job, and if they
were offered fifty one percent fifty two percent, that of
the pie. That's enough for them to say, like we've
gone from we've miss been mismanaged, and we've and this

(01:24:44):
is a better deal than we have now. But you
have to think, why are they offering you a better
deal than they have now? They've never fucking done it.
And the only thing, the only way you've ever gotten
a better deal than what you had before was by
the valid threat of losing games. That is the only
way that this will work. And it sucks. It sucks

(01:25:05):
that the other side is that that stubborn, right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
Not only that they're very stubborn, and they are, but
like Manfred got to get, you know, talking trying to
but he's got his own wedges to deal with within
his own constituency too.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
I agree. I guess I was thinking about this this morning.
But like Tony Clark is quoted in this piece, and
he I think what he says is accurate, right, that
that Lanford is just trying to drive wedges. Is he's
trying to trying to undermine the PA all of this
kind of stuff. The PA needs to be right now

(01:25:41):
aggressively pushing counter programming on this kind of stuff, because
this is gonna sound bad. And I apologize in the
you know, I apologize for what I'm about to say.
But like you said, Manford thinks these guys are dumb,
and some of these guys are dumb. And it's not
even it's not if you need to know, you need

(01:26:03):
to know your constituency, and you need to make them
not THEMB. I don't think like I'm not saying they
can't learn. I think a lot of guys aren't exposed
to this or aren't interested in it or whatever. And
you they the PA has to be counterprogramming this and
in the heads of these young guys, because look, it's
going to be compelling to sit to have them say
like I've only got you know, some of these guys
are not going to hit free agency or make it

(01:26:25):
big in free agency or any of that. And they
need to say they're gonna say I want to get
mine right, I need to be taken care of earlier,
and and the PA needs to say, you're right. But
it doesn't have to come at the expense of these
of people in free agency. It has to come at
the expense of the orcs. Yeah, and and they need
to find a way to speak to those guys. So
it doesn't become the wedge issue that Manfred is trying

(01:26:47):
to make it and they need to do it now.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
I know it's early, but yeah, this has got to
be a constant, like it's already starting. It started on right,
and I guess my point.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
My point is that if if if Clark is is
gonna be out here saying like he's wrong about this.
I don't These numbers don't make any sense whatever, Like
you you have to be out there doing it to
your players, convince you gotta you gotta now, like it's
gotta start up.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Yeah, it's got to be like a one sheet that
you're repped in distribute right or whatever in the lock
like this is.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Yeah, I'm sorry to get worked up.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
I mean, man, people like it when you get worked up.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Craig Manfred's hootspot on this is out of control.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
Yeah, it's tell how he operates. In other news, the
Futures Game rosters for twenty twenty five been released.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
Uh, maybe you can get worked up.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
Well, do you know what's that? It's on Saturday now,
But it's not even like a four pm Saturday. I
got he's four pm Sunday. There's not like I didn't
look I have said, so you're going break right up again'n.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
Make me I'm not going to do this time?

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
Fine, now do you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
Want me to? I mean, like they don't care. They
do not I don't know why they do this game.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
Like I'm looking at these rosters too, like the teams
aren't even sending, especially on the pitching side, Like teams
just aren't sending their guys anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
Like it's not like, well again when the league says
we don't care, like why would you?

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
Right, Like the Tigers send Clark McGonagall and for sanyelle,
I think they're there.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
Shout the Tigers. Shout out to the Tigers for actually
carrying and also for offering afternoon games whenever. Tigers are
quickly to become one of my favorite organizations.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
Right, And it's just like, yeah, I didn't realize Frank
Masakado was going to this.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
I actually just looked that up. So he was. He
was quite good at.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
For like the second time, and yeah, and whatever he
has gotten yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Just destroid in double A. I walks to eighteen.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Strikeouts, Paul and hope for the Dodgers that Dodgers sent
some guys. Yeah, his is my day. Again, there's like
some top top guys here like I think hope my day. Uh,
debrees and Walcott Walcott walking me in our top five
to ten. So that's good, like you know, maybe Andrew
Payne or two. Yeah, it's just I have a lot

(01:29:26):
of pitching. Like I just again, they don't market this game.
It's less useful to me as a evaluator at this point, Like, are.

Speaker 2 (01:29:38):
You what I does? Should Atlanta have three people?

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
You would think?

Speaker 2 (01:29:44):
Isn't that the home team? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
I mean like they literally sent like JR. Richie and
Hayden Harris. I like Jared Richie.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
I don't know if they have.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Tigers sent three like usually they do that, but they
don't really have they have.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Yeah, the Tigers got a third guy, got three.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
The Mariner's got three.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
I thought the whole thing was that the home scene
got an extra guy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
They usually do that to try to chin up some excitement.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
Yeah, yeah, I guess when you're including Hayden No, I mean, look,
I don't want to dump on, but he's.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Really right, Like, uh, out of the news Griffin canning
out for the season with achilles tear. We mentioned that
and then yeah, not good like they just like they
dare running out of pictures.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
Yeah, I mean, look, the Dodgers went through this earlier, right,
they're getting a little healthier now, but like this is
they've both planned for this and like it can if.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
You like, yeah, the Met's have been able to backfill
all right, like it hasn't been.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
Look like you talk about Blackburn and like I hear
the tone in your voice, but like HER's eighth starter
or whatever, you know, as far as actually.

Speaker 1 (01:31:01):
I mean they used him in Really, I don't even
know what they're going to do against for the Kenny spot.
We'll see. I don't know if that's going to work.
Luise Robert just hurt again.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean talk about the
future version of like the guys we talked about last
week of like you, what do you do with them
and how do you value them? Like Louise Robert, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
I don't know, man, they'll stay and get into the
expensive years of that deal such as they are.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
I mean they're options, right, So it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
I think you one more full season and then an option.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
No, it's two options.

Speaker 1 (01:31:35):
It's one more full season and then two options.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
Yeah, is it. Oh, is it?

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
I think twenty twenty six is guaranteed.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
I'm pretty sure, but I mean it's like twenty million bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:31:44):
Yeah, it's not cheap. I don't know what uh you
do with that?

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
He's twenty twenty six is an option. It is an
option club option for twenty six.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
So I don't know, like White six him White is
going to pick that up?

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
No, yeah, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
So twenty twenty six Angels starting center fielder Louise Robert.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
It's actually a good shout.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
In news that Craig put in here. Austin Barnes with
the Giants.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
There you go. Yeah, it's just funny.

Speaker 1 (01:32:19):
It is funny. I forgot that Patrick was on vacation
as we established the outset, so I didn't come up
with the game. So we're just gonna do War Escalator,
which Craig.

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
Cake, okay, yeah, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
So you have to pick a player between zero and
five war five and ten, ten, fifteen, fifteen, and twenty.
We never actually get that far, but we'll start.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
I mean, I'm going to be eliminated immediately.

Speaker 1 (01:32:36):
Zero zero to five war, Craig, you got to start.
I'm sorry, Okay, I will just go with Jacob Wilson.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
Okay, am I checking it?

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
No, I'll check it on, check them other.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Yeah, rookies are good calls. Yeah, although I'm I don't know,
I'm stuck on it's stupid. I'm gonna say we're zero,
zero to five. I'm mm hmmm, uh you know whatever.
I'm just I'm gonna live it, live large here. I'm

(01:33:15):
gonna say Spencer Turtles.

Speaker 1 (01:33:18):
Okay, that's an interesting choice.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
Yeah, well he's been bad, he's been good.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
Maybe it's one point two or one point one. Sorry
who it was? It was. It was a low replacement
coming into this year, but he is now in the
zero to five, five to ten. Always tricky, at least
especially for Greg, but sometimes for me too.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
No, I actually I feel good. I feel very good
about this because we've looked at some guys.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
Oh yeah, fair enough, and and I have I have.
I'm gonna go with Paul Skins.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
Ooh, okay, well I'm gonna stay in Pittsburgh. Okay, O'Neill Cruz.

Speaker 1 (01:33:56):
All right, Paul Skins is exactly ten So I did, Yeah,
I did yet exactly ten points. Yeah, I did not
realize he was. I mean, that's wild good for him,
And you said on the O cruise, Yeah that makes sense.
Only a cruise is six point one, so you have

(01:34:17):
made it to uh.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Yeah, I was. I think I looked earlier, so I
felt I felt fairly fairly good.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
Now ten to fifteen, Craig, this is good. This is trouble,
all right. I am going to go with ten to fifteen.
This is rough.

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
Trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:34:45):
Labor is going to be too high. I think I've
done labor before. I missed.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
That sounds right, but I don't remember what slot you put.

Speaker 1 (01:34:51):
I remember either m Jan Duran about Jaron Duran.

Speaker 2 (01:34:58):
Well he had well he hadn't eat he did, but
I said his what level season he had?

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
Yeah? Last I am around ten to fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:35:11):
Mm, I do not.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
Man, ten to fifteen. I'm gonna go with take it
too long. You can edit that out, yeah, I know

(01:35:36):
I can. I'm going to go with the Corbyn Carrol Okay,
he was really high though one I might be over here.
He's been pretty good this year. Let's see twelve point six.
I'm good, very.

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
Nice, very nice. I'm gonna know he might be under shoot.
I had like zero in a someone in that man
ten persist man, you know, m m all right, I might,
I might do myself in here. Jeremy PNYA.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
Feel like that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
D R.

Speaker 1 (01:36:18):
S really likes his defense though. Seventeen point six Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
Yeah, fair enough. Honestly that might be the farthest.

Speaker 1 (01:36:28):
Yeah, they have as a four point six war player
this year so far.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
So yeah, uh, you know, well, I'm not going to
say the other I'm going to look up the other
person I was. I was thinking of another person. I
was sinking. It was just shy, so that's fine. I
was in trouble.

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
Well, thank you for joining us for another episode of
five and Time, brought to you by the Baseball Perspective
podcast Network. Just search to the Baseball Perspective podcast Network
wherever you get your podcast, and we'll be in that feed.
We'd love it if you would be a us a
reading interview, but only a good one, and Craig and
I will see you later this week.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
M hm hm hm

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