Five and Dive, Episode 472: Your Call is Very Important to Us

In Episode 472, Jeffrey and Craig chat about internet customer service and then discuss five mostly baseball topics. 

1. Our Long Nationals Nightmare: The Nats pick an odd time for a perhaps needed front office and field staff shake up
2. Craigton Blue Jays: Craig is never wrong just (very) early.  
3. Hey now, you're an All-Star: Alll-Star rosters are out, and as a baseball podcast we should talk about them I guess.
 4. Around the Horn: Another gambling suspension, some new injuries, and some old Astros injuries.
5. Craig needs a Blue Jays like run to win the game this week. Can he pull it off?

Five and Dive is listener-supported, you can join our Patreon at patreon.com/fiveanddive. If you want to get in contact with the show, the e-mail address is [e-mail].       
                                   
Our theme tune is by Jawn Stockton. You can listen to him on Spotify and Apple Music  

Spotify: http://bit.ly/JawnStockton_Spotify
Apple Music: http://bit.ly/JawnStockton_AM

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome Episode four seventy two, five and five. It is Monday,
July seventh. I'm your host, Jeffrey pettern Nostro joining me
once again for twosome for singles match a duo. That
would be a good, big, good word. I'm working on
three hours sleep. It's Craig Golfer. That's not It happens

(00:32):
so Craig. There's been a I don't know post going
around Blue Sky about I forget it is Leiah Thompson
post telling about how you couldn't do back to the
future today because thirty years ago would be nineteen ninety
five or something. I thought people have been like, yeah,
like actually that between and there's been like you know.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Time hasn't changed enough, right was?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
But you you got to live in a night ninety
five world with no internet for like twenty four hours.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
I was going to say, we had to uh yeah,
we uh we were supposed to record on Thursday, and
uh Thursday morning, about an hour and a half before
we would normally record, my internet went out.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yep. But you know that can happen.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
It happens. It does happen. Usually it's something like I
can you know, I know how to do the basics.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Right, like or there's like a wider outage or.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Something, or if there's a wider outage. Yeah, but this
appeared to be just us. Like I checked, you know,
the app, and it tells me there's not an outage.
So okay, so it's me. Uh the troubleshooting guide, I
this is Verizon for anyone who's curious. Uh, the troubleshooting
guide is useless because it takes me through it tried

(01:51):
to walk me through, uh you know.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Stuff that the I'm turning it back on again.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, so right, I do that, I unplug it, I
power cycle it right, so you have to it. But
they get all the power out and then redo. So
I take about forty minutes before I even call the
company because I'm trying all of these various things, right,
anything I can think of to not have to interact
with these people. It gives me the option of whether

(02:17):
the light on the router with.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Blinking blue or green or whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
So white or red. Mine is yellow, and I'm like, well,
what the fuck is this? Uh? So I end up
calling them. Yeah, I spend two hours on hold with
that Jeff is subject to my random missives. When I
could send a message.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I spent two hours on hold, so there shouldn't be
a lot of people calling.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
You would think, you would think, right, well, they told
me thirty eight minutes and it was two hours. I
also like, for whatever reason, I don't normally get bad
cell service. Also Verizon, I was getting bad cell service
this day, right, so, and I can't I couldn't do
a hot spot because I was on hold with these people.

(03:07):
So you're on the phone, like the hot spot was
not viable for whatever reason. And I eventually talked to this.
I'll do the condensed version. I talked to someone who
says we can get someone out there by Saturday, and
it's you know, I don't know to wish on Thursday,
and obviously there's a holiday on Friday. I'm not expecting

(03:28):
anyone to come out for Friday. But I said, that's
not gonna work like this. This isn't I've had a
lot of problems. I switched to Verizon three months ago.
I've had a lot of issues. And I don't like
when people say, like, I can't this is gonna sound
so this is like just Karen behavior. But like I

(03:50):
don't like when people say, like outright, I can't get
the thing I'm asking for, because I really try not
to ask for like insane stuff, right, But they say, like,
there's no one on the schedule, you can't have someone
come out. And I said, like, it's two. It's two o'clock.
You're telling I said, pay someone over time, Like you
guys have screwed up. I don't know what's going on, like,
just have someone come out. It's not as you can't

(04:11):
know immediately. It's impossible, like sometimes people finish their jobs earlier.
You can't tell me like we'll do our best or
something like that. I get into it with it. He's
telling me it's he said. I said, I want to
talk to someone else. He says, I guarantee you they're
going to say the same thing I had asked. I said, fine,
put me through the manager. He's arguing with me. I said,

(04:31):
am I allowed to speak to the manager or not?

Speaker 1 (04:36):
And he asking for permission to speak to the manager?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I said I want to, and he wouldn't do He
kept arguing with me. So I just said, like, are
you like, is this gonna happen right? Or am I? Like?
Are you telling me I can't do it? Basically? And
he said no, you can, and I said, fine, let's
I'd like to stop talking to you. You because it's
not going how I want. I basically end up with

(05:02):
in the same situation when the next person I talked
to not his manager. Okay, but but I found out
later I'm finding out the inner hierarchies of Horizon. They
have to send someone to an escalation specialist before yest enter. Right. Yeah,
So that person comes on the phone and says immediately
just says, this isn't gonna happen. And I was like,

(05:22):
that is not a good way to talk to me.
I'm I've been on hold for two hours. I'm not
happy about this. Like again, just say, like, let me
look right, lie to me.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
This is like when I worked retail. It's like you
have like I'll look in the back even if I know, ye, there's.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Let me check the back.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Lie to me and just like pretend a little bit, right.
So I get I get into it with this person too.
I'm getting belligerent at this point. I'm just to be
quite honest, I'm not this I'm not proud of myself.
But it happened because she says, uh.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
She says, like they're they're completely booked, like they don't
take whatever. And I said, well, someone sets their priorities.
Somebody sets their priorities, so who is that? He goes, well,
that's a dispatch And I said, well, then let me
talk to dispatch about my situation. Dispatch doesn't talk to people,
which is again fine, that's that's fine. They're allowed to

(06:21):
have that. I said, okay, well who talks to dispatch?
She said I do? And I said, why are you
helping me? You're not, You're not helping me. And so
I got in that circle a little bit and I'm
getting zero help whatsoever. So I said, okay, I want
to talk to your manager. She's arguing with me, and

(06:42):
I finally I said, I had to do the same thing.
I said, am I allowed to talk to this person
or not? She said, yeah, they do a callback. I said,
I'm not. I said, I'm not doing a callback. I've
been on hold. First of all, I've tried to do
callbacks with Verizon. I get yelled at or I mean,
I can't yell that. I get nothing. I get like
they've they've not called back, so I will wait on hold.
I said, you don't have to put me through. I'm

(07:02):
not demanding someone's time. Now put me on hold. We don't.
That is not how it works, sir, I said, what,
it's not how it works. I said, I've been on
hold for hours. You just put me on hold until
they're available. And then she says, oh, you want me
to be on hold until someone's available, as though I
didn't just request that exact thing, and and I said yes,

(07:25):
So she puts me on hold. Well, I'm on hold.
I use my wife's phone to call and threaten to
cancel to a different person, and and then by the
time the manager does come on, I go, I relate
all the crap I've been through on this call and
with the with Verizon whatever, and he says, you're exactly right.
We're going to have someone out to you at seven
by seven pm, and also we're crediting your account with

(07:45):
one hundred dollars. Don't don't tell me, don't. The lesson
here is don't tell me. I can't.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
That's the thing that they can't do it for you, Craig,
is what issue.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
The thing is? So then I end up talking to
the freaking four person of the who was very good
about communication and customer service. I have to say. I
ended up talking to the four person and she was like,
this guy calls me and is like, can you get
someone over there? Like in a panic basically, And she
was like, you know, we normally don't get calls from

(08:20):
these guys. And I said, yeah, I was belligerent and
and she says, but she said, I can't do it
right now, but like we have people on tell seven.
That's no problem. The guy was here by four o'clock.
You're telling me it's the two people tell me impossible.
I had a guy there within two hours. You just don't. Don't. Anyway,

(08:44):
I apologize for wasting everyone else's time on this stupid story.
I obviously got worked up. That's why we couldn't. We
just couldn't do it. I didn't and I didn't have
by the way they found out it's a seventeen house outage.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Did like nobody else, no one asked.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
I don't know if no one else.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Look maybe or at work right and not at home?

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
I think people work it.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
But also if I called in and say I don't
have service, isn't one of the first things someone should
do is like check, is anyone else in the area
not getting service? Isn't that something we would check? Like
not even just self reported. They can look at the
back end and see who's getting either poor or you know,
no service or whatever.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
I feel like that you just called and got a
series of like Aaron Judges, we don't do that here.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
That's this is exactly what it was. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, anyway, well.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
There's been a little bit of news since then. Anyway,
the show's a little bit I don't know longer. But
our first topic are long National's Nightmare. That's a Craig
Craig got a good topic. I was gonna go with vigilists.
So is it is it over? That's the real question,
I mean, because I wanted to say, is it's not over?
Because they don't have a manager for tonight?

Speaker 2 (09:54):
That's right, someone who they offered it something gl Cairo,
who's thinking it over.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
They also have Matt Lacroix there for remembering some guys.
Because their Triple A manager, who I guess will be
the manager. Miguel Cairo decides not to be the manager.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
He's he was the Triple A manager. Is that right? Then?
They called him up so they.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
To be on this staff.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
They both don't. They don't have a major league or
Triple A manager right now.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Maybe they've already assigned a Triple A manager.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
I mean, I'm sure they've assigned it.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Wheeling back to Sunday, after getting I think swept by
the Right Sox in pretty horrible fashion, the Nationals le
go Bo Daby Martinez and Mike Rizzo. It was later
reported that their option for twenty twenty six came due
this month, and so they decided to.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Not use the not pick up the option, and also
fire them.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Right, yes, we should know. This is a week before
the draft start. We'll start with Mike Rizzo. Is a
week before the draft. The Nationals had the first overall
pick in the draft.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
I mean, I guess you know what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Maybe, So here's the thing, right like, right like.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I don't think there's a lot of maneuvering.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
I don't think they're necessarily going off a different draft board.
Right they're already meetings. They don't have time to really,
uh like change of courses, I don't think. But so
Mike de Bartolow, who is one of the agms, he's
like the I think the head of like baseball operations,

(11:27):
probably they there's three agms plus uh former GM Dan
Jennings is a special assistant. Right, so there's but like
who's actually making this pick? Who is making this pick
in the room? Now I have to assume it's Yeah,
I mean, so he's.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Got veto power, right scout.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Like like Rizzo obviously is going to be pretty hands
on as a former scout himself, right, and he tends
to pretty.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
So yeah, I assume the like if if we're portion
like percentages to like who informs it, I think it's
going to be the majority the scouting director. But like,
do I think.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
The first overall pack like this isn't?

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Do I think that that?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well?

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Right? But I so I assume like the Bartolo, I
don't know have.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Also like all these all these guys are like he's he's.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Inexperienced, Like yeah, administrator, sounds like I'm not giving him
enough credit, but like I mean it in a in
a he's done this this the front office work enough
And my assumption is he's willing to listen to people
who know what they're talking about. Now, you can anyone
could want to criticize the Nationals and say, do they

(12:42):
know what they're talking about? Whatever? But this is who
you're working with, right, You.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Still kind of technically have a lame duck GM here,
right because he has the interim tag. Yes, And I guess.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
He's not a scouting guy. So I don't think I
assume anyone's rust in this position is not going to
walk in, hike up their pants and say like I'm
making the first pick with.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
No Yeah, you would think, right, that's my assumption.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
I'm not saying it's impossible.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
So the other part is like if you but I
do you don't want I don't know who otherwise it's
a learner, I guess.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
I mean, where else do you go?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
I guess if you decide you don't want Mike Rizzo
to be your GM going forward, do you really want
him running the draft or the trade deadline all the time?
But like Mike zo, like Mike Rizzo is a professional, right,
Like he's not gonna I feel like Mike Rizzo will
do whatever Mike Rizzo is going to do. And maybe
you just don't want the mic Rizza stuff anymore at

(13:37):
this point, which I don't think they do, based on
the fact that they like rizzog but yeah, I don't
you know, obviously we talked about this fairly recently with
the you know, the state of that roster and sort
of the overlapping prospect like they're never gonna have all

(14:00):
these guys they got for Soto at the same time,
right up at the same time and cheap, and they
haven't really been able.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
To Honestly a little bit of incredible timing on our
part to talk about all of that going in.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
You do you like it?

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Fascinating situation? Right?

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Do you sell now? Right? Do you do you trade? C?
G A C J. Abrams? Do you trade the Kenzi Gore?

Speaker 2 (14:22):
To your point, yeah, you've got a lame du gm.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Rights like who do you want?

Speaker 2 (14:28):
And also and also just to like Rizzo nailed the
last time you did that. Yes, I mean he you again.
I'm not advocate.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
And Turner trade didn't work out great?

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Right, No, No, I'm not seeing nails trade. But the
last promise, yeah, the last I mean the Soto trade,
the one you had to get. You're gonna get what
they got six players. I'm not going to count weight.

(15:04):
Susana cleaned it up.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know, looked look good before he got hurt right.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Right, Uh, you're so you're talking about like four potential
legit major leaguers out of that oh Hassle Right, So
that but Hassle is a fit to me, I'm not Yeah,
I'm not buying Hassle. But but Susana Gore, Abrams and Wood, right,
and what.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Is a star? What is an out and out start?

Speaker 2 (15:28):
I think what is a superstar?

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Right?

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Maybe not yet? But but will I don't know, But
you're right, I mean you can absolutely go back and
look at a number of these deals and and and
say they didn't get enough.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
It feels very like we just realized we have to
make a decision on this option. What do we do?
Which is weird? Like you should know, I like, and
I know they've been worst recently, like last month or so, right,
Like they weren't good at the beginning of the season,
but they were frisky and it just really hasn't And

(16:12):
now you're like, you haven't only taken a step forward.
Only James Wood, you know, having an MVP caliber season
and c J Abrams you know, I mean having another
good first half. We'll see if he's completely put it together.
But like the trend lines, there are good with Mackenzie
Gore being one of them. I don't know, five best

(16:33):
pitchers in baseball or in the National League, at least
in the first half. Yep, what has b ref And
I think DRS likes this defense more than other places.
But four and a half, we just did this in
the last part.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
He's number three in war t.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, that's a superstar crag. That's if you can keep
it going like that.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
But some of superstars is is recognition, right, Like I
don't like he's not even starting the All Star Game.
He should, but he's not, And granted that and I
don't actually have a problem.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
With with yeah, I mean sure, I mean it's tougher, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, right, I don't have a problem with any of
those guys starting an All Star Game, but like somehow
James Wood should also be started, right, do you know
what I mean? Like, it's just too many good outfeelds.
I guess you could, you could say over Acunya, But
I also I just do not have a problem. I mean,
we'll get right.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
I mean, he's been he's been great.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
He's been great, and he's also Ronald Acuna. Like it's
an All Star Game and that's fine, well we have
a topic on that.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
We have a topic on that. Way, Yeah, like c
J Abrams again two eighty five through fifty six, forty two.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Like maybe not not a great shortstop, but doesn't matter.
I mean like that's and again not an all star,
but like easily could be.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Right, and uh, the next best position player on this
team is Alex Call.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's tough.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, and like Alice Call is having a nice season.
It's like right or whatever, yes, all right, but yeah,
and then it's like and again, like Nathaniel.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Got off to a decent start and then has been that.
You know, he's he is what he is.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
I think, right, Luis Garcia is a very bad defensive
second base but antalague average hitter, which is not a
great combination. You know, Jose Jose Tana has basically been
replaced by pretty House, but pretty House is also not hitting.
And outside of Gore, the pitching of like Jake Urban
has a four to seventy al right, but like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
You know, Dylan Dylan Cruise looked really bad until he
looked uh he actually had like a nice week then
got hurt. We talked about that. Josh Bell has been
pretty bad. I actually didn't mind that signing in the
off season. Like I thought, I thought he'd give him
like at least like mediocre, and he's been less than that. Yeah,
I was wrong.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Has been fine. It's like a platoon, ye, super utility guy.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
I mean. And and the thing is like Amen's Rosario
is the guy who trade.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
You know, traders are I think they're a trae Kyle
Finn again, right like, regardless of.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Who they refuse to sign forever. And then it's actually
been quite good Deve Bartolo, it's they They in the release,
they say he will lead in all aspects, including running
the draft. Yeah, but they do have they have, They've
hired They hired Brad Selik from the Orioles in twenty
twenty three. They hired Danny Hass in twenty twenty four,

(19:29):
so like they've had people doing this. My assumption is
running the draft like running the draft for for the
interim GM means not fully like deferring knowledge of, but
retaining authority over. I assume that's what it is. That is,
to be clear, that is a substantial difference from how
I assume Mike Rizzo did it, which is both knowledge

(19:51):
of and authority over.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
The last week leading up to this, and since this,
even the last twenty four hours, there's been more heat
on them. I feel like to Kate Anderson the l
SU picture, I don't know if that means anything, but
I do.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Want to go back to you said like, do you
want do you want this? If you're gonna move on?
Do you want them running the draft and making the
deadline decisions? And we've had that conversation before, and I
think I am I asked that right, right. I've been
fond of saying like, if you're going to move on,
you should probably just move on. There is a degree of.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Chaos that right, Like if you're an advisor for one
of these players that might go one to one and
you're negotiating, right, but like right, or a guy they're
trying to, you know, talk about for their if they're
doing a cut at one one. I don't know what
they are, but there's a rumor out there that they are,
and a lot of teams cut. This is the draft
to cut at one one.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Frankly, it is much flatter at the top.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Now if you're looking towards that second round pick and
trying to float someone or something again, like who who
am I talking to? Like who who's picking up the phone?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well? And also like can I trust? Well? Ultimately the
answer is on some level the owner.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Right, Well, if I got to kill a bunch of teams,
like I'm not saying this happens or is happening with
anyone in particular, but if I'm telling a bunch of
teams like this is my number to try to get
me down to your pick.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Like right, there's a lot of trust involved in these situations,
and ultimately the trust has to be there to the
owner to sign the check and to show through on
that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
I mean that the money's there, right, there's a draft pool,
but like the.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Money, the money is there. But the question to me
is is does it inject a level of uncertainty into
the trust equation? Uh? When I'm dealing with a guy
who just fired his scouting I mean his GM and
manager a week before the draft, right, it's the manager
doesn't matter in that sense. But like it, I'm just saying,

(21:45):
you're dealing like, am I dealing with the most rational
people here? Like? Am I?

Speaker 1 (21:48):
The other thing, the thing that kind of like crystallized
it for me a little bit is they did this
without Like I understand that Miguel Cairo has has been
on that stuff for a bit now, and it's probably loyalty.
Like David Martinez, I think Engender's loyalty in his staff.
He hasn't thrown the players under the bus a little bit.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Lately, but like at who's expense?

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, but I think like David Martin is like one
of those like old baseball men, right, Like that's viz
always too obviously, like the fact that like like Miguel
Cayro was like, eh, I don't know, like let me
sleep on this interim manager job for the rest of this.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
How does that speak to the org right now? You
don't even know if you want to take an interim
manager job, right.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
And like what's the Obviously it's an audition for the ausies,
but like what are they gonna then do in October?
Is the real question? November is the real question to me?
Like who are they bringing in? Like they have not
had to hire it, like Visa has been there since
what like twenty twelve maybe for that right, maybe even
before that. Yeah, well he didn't make the he inherited

(22:51):
the Strasburg pick. I think so he's like two thousand
and ten, twenty eleven. I mean, he's I mean he's
been obviously was an AGM before that. He's been there
twenty years. He had a very funny quote where he said, yeah,
I've been in twenty years of like dealing with that ownership. Essentially,
it was like one of his quotes. Yeah, it wasn't
like the implication was dealing with that ownership. He phrased

(23:12):
it a little more politely. But and yeah, obviously there's
been a fair amount of about people there, especially in
the last six to seven years, but even before that,
they'll you know, they'll patriot be a little Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Let's see, he was promoted. He's been with the ORG
even longer since. Yes, he was the first family's first
hire in two thousand and six.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Okay, but it's like an age promotive.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Right from a GM to GM on August twenty, two
thousand and nine.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Okay, so it was after it was literally like right
after the Strasbourg pick, which presumably he I mean, even
I'm sure he was just like right, yeah, yeah, but
I'm like, look, I've had a there's obviously there's been
a lot of I understand why Nationals fans and some
of the more online base on media are like, yes,

(24:12):
this is and this was necessary I think for the Nationals.
Like this dude built a perennial playoff team in a
World Series winner. I know he did it by spending
a lot of money, but you.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Like not that much money.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, but like he hit on his he hit on
the Schurzier deal.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Right, they have they ever been into the into.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
The I maybe, Like I don't like all those weird
deferments too. I don't know, like I.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Don't think that they have, right, And let's see what.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
He got in on, like that Trey Turner deal and
got Trey Turnery. He drafted Jordan Zimmerman. I think I
think Zimmerman's after maybe Zimmon's four, but that he developed
Jordan Zimmerman. Uh, he's signed Patrick Corbyn and like, yeah,
I love back Id. That was bad, but he was
a big reason they won the twenty nineteen World Series, right.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
They don't win it without him? Uh? Yeah, zimmer Man
was the two thousand and seven draft. So if he
were saying he was hired in two thousand and six.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
He was involved. Yeah, I don't know if he was.
And yeah, like look, would I hire my Grizzo to
be my jam tomorrow. No, but I want my Rizzo
in my front office somewhere maybe.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, right right, I mean there's something it look Is
he the modern GM? No? Does that mean? But I
think he's clearly got a skill. Yes, And what I
would say I said this online yesterday, but this really

(25:36):
isn't an organization in a fascinating position even before this,
as we were talking about, and I think Rizzo's big
differentiator when he when he came on the scene, when
he was hired as GM or promoted, I should say,
was that he got money out of the learners. Sure,

(25:58):
and that was clearly work, as evidence by his statement
that took effort. This is not Met's ownership or Dodgers
ownership right where it's it's still you still have to
make your case, but they're willing to do it right.
This This was work to get them to open the walllet.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
For the Phillies. Right, Like to an extent, John Middleton,
if Dave Dombrowski wants to sign somebody, it's.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Sometimes someone there is another GM. This is I haven't
asked for the money, but like if I want like,
but if they they but they have a sense that
if they asked, they could get it right or or
they have to.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Like a lot of being a GM is getting your
owner to do things they don't really want to do,
which is usually spend money.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Right, and and the learners are I mean you also
have to understand that, like before Rizzo, like the Nationals
didn't send scouts to Scout School when it existed because
they didn't want to spend the money. That's not much
of an expense, right, You can you can.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Quibble now, Yeah, they still run a pretty lean front
office to relatively speaking, too so.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
But my point here is the next guy. Given where
the Nationals are, it seems very unlikely to mean that
the next guy is going to My guess is the
next guy who comes in is going to come in
and be told you're not going to have a budget.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
You need to you're going to modernize player dev and
the case.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
I go back to our podcast from last week, you're
now you're probably wasting, if not completely, the vast majority
of Gore and Abrams time on time with the team
team control. Let's say you can always you look, you
can change how long they're the team, but you're wasting that.
And if you're if you're wasting that or if if

(27:41):
you hit the reset button on those guys, if you
move them, even for good hauls, there's a good chance
you're wasting a significant portion of the James Wood window. Now,
maybe it's not.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Right, like they're really cheap, the cheap.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Ones, right, Well, so right, I'm saying even if even
if it's a two year yeah step back right, which
which honestly is pretty quick, and it's too Look, if
you have Mackenzie Gore and c. J. Abrams with the
amount of if you trade them this deadline.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
That you think Tigers are basically able to do this
under Scott Harris And I said this once Scott Harris
took this job, took that job, I thought it was
the worst GM's job you could take. And he's done
a great job there.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah. Well, so my point isn't that you can't do
you can do this, and you can do you.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's also easy to do it central in the NL East.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, there is that, but you're still talking about, like
you said, the pre arb years of one of the
best players in.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
This doesn't matter if you're willing to spend money, right, Like,
it doesn't like that's you.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
You know you you brought this up on this last
pot and I've been thinking about it, right I I was.
I saw over the weekend, I saw a friend who's
a Nationals fan, and like I was just talking about,
like what a fascinating, uh, you know, kind of predicament
that they're in, because it is kind of like you,
you don't have the luxury of middling these days in
this league anymore, even though and I say that, even

(29:01):
though they keep expanding the playoffs and it seems like
you should, it is kind of like make the most
of what you've got.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Or I mean again, if you look at the teams
in the playoff spots right now, right, I know, we
just did the half your recap last week outside of
the Mariners, and even the Mariners have kind of gone
for it in the Mariners way, right, Like they traded
for Randy Rose Arena, they traded for Luis Castillo, like

(29:27):
they've done they haven't done enough because yeah, but like
the Giants are clearly pushing in. I don't remember their
their intent is to win this year. They already made
a huge by trade. You know, the Padres held all
their guys, right, they could have traded go and cease
Michael King and the off season for a pretty good return,
right they added, you know, obviously the Mets and the

(29:50):
Phillies are where they are. Are the Cubs traded for
Kyle Tucker? You know these?

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (29:56):
I mean the Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
The n is a sentiment even they like these like the.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Blue Jays, which we'll get to your blue Jays will
get to them. Like again, they have continued to the
extended lavel see how that works out? Right, but like
they are still to an extent reaping the benefits of
pushing in for Springer and Bassett and Barrios, right, Like,
this is not just right, it has not worked out.

(30:23):
They had but that they added.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
There's time for that to work out.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
So like you can't. It's like who are the like, look,
is there a hangaround team that's going to get it?
Because like the Red sneak in or whatever you like,
even the Red sign like Nick Martinez and draymer Candelario,
right like they.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Are, well, they're not reaping anything.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
No, no, they're not.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
But has had a nice season. They like to backfill
Alexis Diaz's disappearance.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right, So there's this It's like there's enough teams trying
because they're still incentive to try a little bit more
because of the six playoff spots. Right, and yeah, Ken
the Nats, Like, can James Wood have a eight to
ten win? Can they? Can the Nats be the twenty

(31:09):
twenty four Royals? Right with Ivan James would have enough
pitching around him that it works out and they won
eighty seven games. Make the wild Card at some point
in the next four years, Yes, but do you really
want that to be your ceiling?

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Well? Also, like also if you're gonna look at what's coming, right,
we talked about they fired most of these bullets, Like
is there enough around them? No? Not really?

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, But like Luke Dickerson is in their second round pick.
I think last over slot prep is that he got.
I think he kind of just slow starks, like a
minor injury. But he've been very good since he's been up,
since he's been playing. We really liked him after the draft.
He's on the mid season fifty long list. I don't
think he's gonna make it, but he's probably a top
one on one guy at this point. He's like three

(31:58):
years away.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Conservative right, Well, it is so okay, So you can
tell you can. I was going through this with with
my friend over the weekend.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Is going to most of next season too, if not
all of it?

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (32:10):
He's Oh, John, I think I think, Oh I didn't
realize that.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, okay, well that changes things. So I was going
to say you could dream on Susana and Socora.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, like they just smoteed him too, double a.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
I think.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Okay, but yeah, like he might be up next year.
You know you have to score and go like again.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Is he going to be good immediately? I mean like,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
He's like Jared and I were talking about him for
the mid season fifty and this is the kind of
profile we don't like, the fastball change up profile we
don't love.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
But like it looks like it's and for that hit
in his first.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, sure it looks like it's going to work for him.
But it's not like this can go Brandon Sprokee pretty quick.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
I also, I don't want to make too much out
of two starts that lasted less than five innings, but
that also says something that starts the last less and
five innings. But this is when you talk about the
change up dominance of of someone from from the lower
miners to the upper miners. Twenty nine and two thirds
in high A forty seven strikeouts, eight walks, four and

(33:08):
two thirds in double A nine strikeouts. That's still quite good, obviously,
six walks and he's he's allowed four hits and four
earned runs.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
I mean, like it's like I'm not it's not missing bats.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
That's fine, but yeah, still missing bats. But but the
point is, and look, we saw this with with the
Dodgers a lot, with Ryan Pepio, with Gavin Stone, with
Emmett she hands to some degree good now, but no,
he doesn't know, and so does Pepio, and so did
Gavin Stone before he hurt his shoulder. But there's a
there's a big adjustment for change up first guys, because guys,

(33:42):
it's not that they don't chase. So it's not that
you won't miss bats at all, but you're going to
walk more guys to get there. That is that is
the big thing.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
I mean, we look, we see know what with Alan
wins right.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Always always without Alan? No, I just yeah, I think
this is a really I don't know. And again, if
you if you hit that button and even successfully pull
off the the like you said, then you're in a
weird situation with and you've got to hit so many
things right.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Well, the other thing is that, like this is a
big market team. They have kind of finally fixed their
TV issues with mass and right, yep, like after fifteen
years of court cases or whatever it was up to.
By the time it was all finally came down, It's
like there should be and look, the Learners have been
interested in selling the team. Maybe the next owner comes
in and you know, pushes the spend button. But like who,

(34:42):
I don't know, man, Like who's outside of Steve Cohen?
Like who's really Rubinstein hasn't spent money yet?

Speaker 2 (34:51):
This does this be?

Speaker 1 (34:52):
I mean it is not even gonna have control for
like five years or whatever. Maybe maybe Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Who's the last owner to come in and spend money?

Speaker 1 (35:05):
It's like it's the last one?

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Is Cohen? I guess? Before that, like Seidler getting full
control over San Diego before that, I guess google Heim?

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Middleton him?

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah right right, Middleton was another one where he took
full control.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, yeah, right, So I don't Yeah, I don't know
what the I can't I can't know what the Nationals
do until they hire a manager in GM, right can't Like,
I don't know, I.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Think I think I want I just want to go
back to real Port. Like the the learners to me
are the problem here. And I can't imagine a GM
comes in and gets them to spend. Maybe they do,
I don't know they should be able to because.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
So here's the thing though, I said, I think.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
The learners learned the wrong the wrong lesson from They
spent and they won and it worked on field, and
then they got they they didn't get the Halo from
the World Series because of the pandemic, and they lost money,
and I just don't I don't think that they.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Think think about what happened that the Astros pulled Jack
Cranky a batter earlier? Yeah, Game seven, Like, I mean
there's always those kind of short uh sliding doors moments.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
But like, but I mean, what's crazy to me is
the lesson I learned from the Nationals and free agency
seems very different from the lesson the Nationals right.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Like and to who they're Like. The other thing is
the learners are picking the next GM, so they can
pick a GM that's going to come in, and not
that they.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Are they going to sell the team.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
No one knows, it's.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
No one knows half in half.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
It's just the worst spot to be. I mean, that's
that's the Twins. How that goes.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
There's only thirty jobs. It's somebody twenty nine that no
one seems to want the Nationals managerial job.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
But I mean, I I will say this to your point.
They are a big market team. It's they're not the
Dodgers or whatever.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
But they're going to get a There is an enterprise.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, there's an opportun tunity that someone could come in
and say, like I can actually do I can do
what Peter Seidler did right where San Diego is both
not a big market and a big market based on
how they're like whitch geographic have time, you could supercharge
You could supercharge this with you mentioned Alex Bregman like that.

(37:22):
I think that's a great fit for this team. But
like you could go there, get a picture, get a
bat and another second tier free agent bat or whatever.
Put it around James Cruse. You still need some development
from Cruise and and do say James, James, I apologize, James.
Would you still need some development from Cruse, But like

(37:46):
you could get I mean again. They did this with
Jason Worth. It was you look at when Worth signed.
There were pieces there. There was Wilson Ramos, there was
Ryan Zimmerman, right whatever, but it was before Strasburg and
Harper arrived. Now they don't have those guys coming, but
they have wood there and you have to do it now.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yes, when it's cheap, hm.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
And you can even structure the contracts. You can front
load them because you're nowhere.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Near, or you can keep giving deferrals, right.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
You can do. It's the duality of the French.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
It is the duality of the franchise. Our second topic,
as promised, the Craig tim Blue Jays. We did it, Craig.
We're in first place, not even by a little bit.
They have swept the Yankees and the Angel can be
walked off. The Angels twice in that series. They won
three one run games. Sounds right, and there.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Plus twelve?

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah they are three games?

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Was wasn't the wasn't Michael Kay using that against them? Well?
Did you see if.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
You think I watched a Michael Kay broadcast?

Speaker 2 (38:50):
I don't know, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Martinez, but yeah, I mean look eight in a row,
eight in a row. Uh, they got a little bit
of a spark from leadoff hitter Andrea Samena. Is supposed
to clean up hitter Andrea Samenez, but now Andre Semenaz
is herd. But briefly off the briefly off the il
now back on the Asle look they have infielders or
any Clement made a very nice play on as wants

(39:16):
to do a second instead of third. But I'm so.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Sad we're having Ernie Clement chat without Patrick.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, and I mean they're what there was fifteen games
over fourteen games over now fourteen games over? Right?

Speaker 2 (39:30):
There are fourteen?

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, because the Raisin Yankees are both eight h I
don't even know if I want to include the Raisin this.
Can the Yankees get back in it? Obviously? Clarks?

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Do you not include the Raisin?

Speaker 1 (39:42):
I guess I have to hope including the Yankees the Rais? Yeah,
I know the Rays have lost some really games they
really should not have lost.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
So did the Yankees this week?

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Fair enough? Yeah? But uh, are the Jays the favorite
the rest of the way at this point?

Speaker 2 (39:59):
So I pulled up the Pakoda standings. Sure we have
the we have Toronto winning ninety one games, New York
winning eighty nine, Tampa winning eighty six. The divisional odds
there are fifty six percent Toronto, thirty one and a
half percent New York twelve percent Tampa.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
That feels a little high on the Jays, but not
that high.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
I mean, I think that is all. They have a
three gam lead, right, so like if you again, they're
two games ahead, I guess, so they have New York
winning a little bit more going forward forward?

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah, Like, look, they're in judge of it all helps obviously.
Just I watched the fair bit of the Yankees met
this weekend, and look, the Yankees got a lot of
Brandon Wadell and a lot of Justin Hagenman, and a
lot of Frankie Montas. And they hit some homers. The
ball is definitely carrying the sure did Yeah, but that's

(40:58):
also hit them home also hit yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah, they gave up some homers still. Yeah, Like.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
At this like the Luis Everino, they have two good
hitters problems still yeah, Like the bottom of that lineup
is also Jayla Mayhew. It's a lot of so they
have more than two good yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
I like, because Bellinger has actually been pretty good.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, but are you really worried about Cody Bellinger.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Are you worried about Jason? Are you worried about anyone
but Aaron Judge in that one?

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Right?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Somehow Trent Grisham still has a one thirty.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Well, he's been hurt for a little bit. Ok he's back.
He's back now.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
But I had thought I had seen him.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Okay, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Who are you worried about in that lineup? Who's not Aaron?

Speaker 1 (41:45):
And look? Max Freed has been great, Yes, yep. Rodan's
been fine, started off great, and started off great and
it's been more cross Rodnni lately.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Uh, you know, Schmidt had pitched well, but his hurt
Weill Warren has not been great.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
They just got is I presume done for the year,
he said.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
They said he's probably going to have Tommy John or
a Tommy John adjacent surgery or whatever. But yeah, he's
done for the year. Yeah, I don't. You just kind
of assume the Yankees are gonna do enough. Like so,

(42:25):
I'm not super confident in the Jays either, Like no,
there's like a load bearing Eric Glower in the rotation now,
like came off, just came off one okay, start one
least okay start.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Sure, but you're gonna roll with Max Sus. I mean,
Eric lower has been very good. He has half out
of the pen, half starting, and like legitimately good. Yes,
I'm not saying I am anticipating that continuing, but he's
earned the results he's gotten by and large, and again

(43:00):
we're talking about it is a run higher than is
the er.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
I think it's like fourteen games over, so they're like
on a ninety three ninety four win pace. They're not
like right world beaters obviously the eight game winning streak health,
but they've had I'm sure people will not be hard
to find a run where they've lost like seven and ten.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, it's it's interesting. Jershian wrote about the Jays today,
and it's it's basically uh he points out, like it's
all their their bats just coming alive. Yeah, right, the pitching.
If you look, he's he's split the season by through
May twenty seventh, and since May twenty seventh. Since May
twenty seventh, the Jays are twenty six and ten. Yeah,

(43:40):
whereas like the Yankees are fifteen and twenty one, for example,
which is worse than the Red Sox and the Orioles
in that time yeah, and it's basically all the bats
just turning on, and the pitching is in terms of rank,
is basically just the same, whether it's starters and relievers
or you know whatever, however you split it up, they're

(44:02):
basically the same. So they're just out hitting their mistakes.
And I don't know that you look at this lineup
and think, oh, they can they can do that, because
I want to be clear, like looking at the ranks,
like they're in the twenties in pitching, it's not great pitching,
and I don't know they can do that. But they've
also done it largely without Dalton varshow they largely without

(44:28):
anything positive from Anthony Santan there, which I don't expect
him to be bad. Again, I'm not saying I thought.
I mean, Jeck, the guy had forty seven home runs
last year and like thirty plus the year before. Like
I'm not saying I expect him to be great, but
actively harmful was not really where my my anticipation.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Alejandro Kirk has come on pretty strong, as is that
of some Barger or that yeah time period, and like,
look they can they have if you look at the
holes on this team, I mean, it's it's an infield
spot play clement where they're second or third, right, you know,
Wagner will probably get some more second base and third

(45:12):
base time. He's not been good, but he is back up.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
But he's no. They just called him.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
They just call him back up. And like they need
an outfielder. They when they have like an outfielder, and
well varshow Varsha's back, they still probably need an outfielder.
They've given two hundred and eighty plate appearances to Allan

(45:36):
road On Rodin and Miles Strong, like Miles Straw is
a very good defender, but right and.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
They've both been awful. Yeah, offensively, you know, Nathan Lucas
is playing, he's serviceable. Yeah, you're gonna get Anthony Santander back,
you know. But if we're talking about filling holes though,
and you talk about the Yankees, they need pitching, right
they're rolling out Marcus Stroman right now. Well, you know,

(46:03):
Will Warren, I'm not saying you have to be out on,
but you'd prefer to be your fifth starter. We've seen
a lot. We've seen Alan Winan's, We've seen a lot
of Carlos Carrasco. We've seen a lot of Ryan Yarborough
at the time, but we talked about this, who's available,
especially someone who can knock Warren back a spot, right,

(46:28):
I mean truly, who are you going? That's That's what's
going to be really interesting to me, is just you know,
you'd like to maybe call up Saint Louis about Eric Fetti,
But well, I don't compared to the guys they're pitching.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
I mean, yes, you better have a plan there because
he's bad bad.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Okay, I mean but again, like I also don't know
that Saint Louis can trade him. They're in the in
the mix. Yeah, he has really.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Bad the last couple starts. I think I've been full
on blow ups.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
So you know, Cincinnati has like a full rotation, but
no one they trade.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
They're all like.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Pre or I mean, it's all like Mitch Keller. Again,
we could just do the the the Jamison t Own
Pittsburgh to the Yankees to Cubs progression at some point
if you want. But like, yeah, I actually think Mitch
Keller would be a great ad for them.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
But I don't know why Mitch Keller in that park
might be.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Well, but I'm just again for the for their needs, right,
I don't know. I mean, can the yank Yankees run
the down? Yes? I don't think this is the problem
with the AL I don't like any of these teams
enough to say, you know, one way or the other,
this doesn't feel lasting to me. I look, Toronto can

(47:56):
win this division. That's not You're not gonna.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
You've been saying that for four years.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Four years, they can. I but I don't think you
can feel confident about any of these.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
On that note, I'll take a break, come back and
do our last three topics. Welcome back to episode four

(48:39):
hundred and seventy two of five and five, our third tompic. Hey,
now you're an all star. You have full all star rosa.
We have full all star rosters, and I don't care
about the Well, so what I've.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Heard the wrong people to be talking about this.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Well, what I have see is there's a lot of
i'll call them engagement bait accounts that are like posting
the little Baseball reference page comparisons or whatever else. And
they're doing it for like one Soto against like Kyle Stowers,
which fine, but do you understand the Marlins have to
have it all like that's the role.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
I think it's a bad well, I don't know, maybe
it's a good I get.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
I mean, look, you got you get the if you're
going to heavily weight the players vote like they're voting
on these guys in like mid end of May.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
I just to to give her. I just did the
staff cast, Yes you did, and rich was was saying
the same thing right like this is they get a
ballot in when.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
They just Fernando Tatis had one vote for their.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Friends or their enemies. I guess if you want to
ruin someone's vacation.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, look one Soto is going to get added to
the All Star roster probably sometime this week.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Does he want to be That's other thing.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
You might just want to play call of duty all.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Uh, although he's probably doing that most of the time.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, fair enough, but yeah, he might want to.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Do it in a in you know, I don't know if.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
They if they call him up, he might just say like, okay,
call Andy Piez who's never gone before, right or whatever.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
And probably would enjoy. Sure.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
I don't maybe anyis is a big call of duty.
It's a he like a huge MLB the show player.
I feel like he's there's like a story about him
being a huge MLB the show player. Maybe he wants
to grind like a weekend reward or something h instead
of going to the to the All Star game. But yeah,

(50:39):
my biggest disappointment is Joeydell is not an All Star.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Who's Who's is.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
The He's got a sub three?

Speaker 2 (50:48):
All right, Sure, that's fine. I think what I would
like I do think look be on, this was definitely
gonna gonna back out.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, they're very should Joe.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Same, do we know, like if there's a nothing, because
he should be in the home Run Derby.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
He's struggling to get guys. Schwarber said he's not going
to do it. Alonzo said he's not going to do it. It
sounds like Hunter Goodman is going to do it. It's
like Goodman, James Wood Hunter Goodman put out of a
good batting practice. Yes, yeh, cow Rally and Isna in it.
I think Counya might be in it.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
But they don't even let's get in there. I'm serious.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
You can get like, I don't know, Kyle Stowers. They
might literally end up getting Kyle Stowers. I mean that's
that's fine, It's all hard. But yeah, it's like what
I mean it's whatever, but yeah, let's get Joanelle in there.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
I agree Fields, Uh, Julio Kwan Buxton, that's those are
the reserves.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Yeah, I mean look again, this was voted for second, second, third.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
I don't know if any of those guys are turning it.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Down one twenty ops and before Joidel had a twelve
hundred ops and June so yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Mean I wonder like this is not the al so
it doesn't help. But like Corbyn, Carroll gotta say selection.
But he might he just came back from a wrist injury.
He might want to do it right. You get those
situations a fair.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
I'm sure we'll get Yeah, we're gonna get fifteen more
players at it this week. Mostly this is I got something.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I'm scrolling through this on the on the MLB page
and there's just not a ton of guys who have
done it a lot. Yeah, it's a pretty young it is.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
I think they said nineteen first time, Well not.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Only first times, but just I'm going down. Uh, I
all has a world ast Chapman. This will be his
eighth for pictures for National. I mean, do we do
we want to talk about Clayton Kershaw.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
I was gonna get to it. Actually, I mean, fine,
whatever this.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Is, this is the purpose the pick. I guess I
don't know what it does. Just put him in the
seventh inning when the tie game. Yeah yeah, Kershaw, it's
his eleventh. It's not real, uh, Chris Sale ninth.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
He's not going to pay it, obviously, right.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Obviously, But that's like it's a lot of second and thirds.
Pete Alonzo only is fifth, I mean only he's not there.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
He's the seventh season, right, and like I'm.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Just saying that. It's not like you're just not getting
a ton of like legends.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Right, I mean, who are the great like ve having Monster.
It's the old you know, the oldest player in the league,
thirty two years old and absolute miracle kind.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Of Well, it's also Zach Wheeler. It's his third.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Jake, I mean, how many does Jacob de Gramm have
because he's another like was he uh Jake Grams on
the Yeah he made it look look fifth, okay more
than I thought.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Actually, hater has been this is six.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Ye yeah wow yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
But yeah we're having to be A third is bananas
Logan Webb it's his second, he's been of the best
pitchers in baseball every single year.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
I feel like he's had a couple, Like I mean,
Edwin Diaz, you never know what you're gonna get.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Sure, but third you know, but you get what I'm
saying right, Like, it's a lot of look seems is
in his second and it's his second part.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
It's he's season, you know what I mean. Rodriguez getting in.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Best reliever in baseball. No, no, no complaints for me.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Disappointed, No Chris Flexen, but so it goes. Jane Smith instead.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Played for the wrong Chicago team apparently. I yeah, I
don't have any hot takes on this other than like
I said, it's crazy to me, Like it's crazy to
me that James Wood is not starting. And then also
I look at the starters and think, I don't have
a problem with any of those guys starting.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Sure, I guess you'll probably be there over Tucker maybe,
but like.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Maybe it's completely fine. Yeah, to have Kyle Tucker starts. Also,
he's having a great year and he's a he has
a start, he's you know, top three m v P TI.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Yeah, let's go around the horn. Uh leuis Ortiz the Yeah,
I mean that I think broke the morning we were
supposed to record. Yes, doesn't put on because I didn't.
It was just put on leave. And then it later
came out as part of a gambling investigation, specifically about
two pitches that he threw. It was, you know, you

(55:38):
can the first pitches of an inning, yes, first pitches
of an inning, which you can micro bat. You can
bet usually microbat. But there was unusual activity and he
threw two sliders. One clearly the one like.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
The first one didn't seem yeah, what aroused suspicion, And
even the second one was horrible. I mean, just like blatantly.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Guy spike sliders right right exactly.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Well, that's the thing, right, I don't know that it
would arouse suspicion.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
He walks like five per nine. I don't think you
would have noticed it.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
It's just although I did see, like Matthew Trueblood pulled
this up pretty quick. The I think, especially the one
he spiked, yeah or no, maybe it was the first one.
I don't know, it's whatever, like his armslot was like weirdly,
it's Louis Ortiz, sure, but it was even though I
know right amongst his it was like bizarre, right, and

(56:31):
so you. But but all of that is like they look.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Circumstances, they always fled. They fled. They have people specifically
to flag this stuff. This is like whether it's like
Challenger European tennis matches or you know, a second division
Turkish football, Like you get an unusual amount of money
bet on something that doesn't generally get a lot of
money bet on.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Right, So what I was gonna say, it's not the
pitches that aroused suspicion. It is the activity regarding the pitch.
This is out worked in basketball with John tay Porter, yeah,
and and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
And look, they'll either trace the bets back to or
so they won't, and then he'll either get suspended or
you won't. Right, Like, that's that you need the smoking
gun here, because you know.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
This is why they do the investigation.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Gamblers are capable of doing weird ship like this for
whatever reason.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
This is why you do the investigation. And this is
why you go while you put the person on leave
while it happens. He's it's paid leave, like he's not.
There's not a pretty judge.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Would be I'm sure mamby is going to investigate this.
I would be curious if Orti has called those pitches himself,
because it's a little weird to do first pitch, first slider.
I mean it's less unusual now, but I would be curious.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Yeah, that's that's a that's a good But even.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
That in and of itself is not if you can't
trace the bet back to him somehow or you know,
contact with between him and the gambler. I don't know
how you well, and I.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Think that's where Yeah, that's where this stuff is going
to be made or or this investigation is going to
be made or lost is in whether there's going to
be communication between any of the people and and that
and or tease. I think I just want to take
this opportunity again. I know I've said it here, but

(58:20):
I said it online. This is a big thing people
immediately go to, like MLB taking sport book money for sponsorships. Uh,
you know for all the fan duel and draftings ads
we see in the promos we see in game, which
I want to be very clear, I find incredibly annoying
and distasteful. They are unpleasant. That is different from a

(58:43):
player potentially betting.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
On right games like you can't we did this whole
thing with.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Pete Rose, right, And it's why the pet Rose I
find the argument that Manfred's decision regarding Pete Rose was
actively more harmful to whether players will engage in this
type of activity both not that convincing in this case
and also a million times more convincing than the league
took sports book money. And and one of the reasons,

(59:11):
by the way you do partner with whether it's for
sponsorship or not, but you partner with sports books, is
that you get their participation. Right.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
They want this to be completely above board, right. The thing,
the the worst part of it for me is it's
not the like the players know they can't gamble that's
on baseball specifically, right, or with a bookie like that
if they want to sign up for a DraftKings.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Account and you know in a legal state.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
And do you know bet on as many football teasers
as you want on Sunday, Right. But what is actually
creating for me like this is like you are creating
this atmosphere where I mean it's already happening. Your players
will be getting threatened, their families will be getting threatened.
Oh and we're eventually probably going to get to like

(59:59):
someone is going to get hurt or killed because.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Of I agree again, I think it is well, but
I don't. I don't know that I put that on
the sponsorships. I don't think that's helping. Well, they like
that is going to have that's the legalization it is
and the proliferation of legal having it on people's phones,
which I think is a massive society.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Literally on your pregame show telling in them the best
bet is Andrew Abbott and a half strikeouts and then
he doesn't get there. You're creating the atmosphere, I think
more in a way than.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
I don't think you're yeah. I mean, yeah, I hear
what you're saying. I don't it's not helping. No, it
is not helping at all. And I wish they wouldn't
do it, I really do, and I wish they wouldn't.
I wish these these companies were not sponsors. I want
to be like, yeah, I think it would just be
better to have.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
That distance, right, But you know everybody, but I don't
think it is. Again, like we just saw.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
The other part is the league. So just to be clear,
like the pregame show, generally these are the league run
So I mean those those or now, look, can MLB
lean on.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Is going to get all the TV stuff in house? Right?
Do you think they're not going to take gambling money
if they're running it in house?

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
No? No, well right, I'm I'm I understand. I understand
all that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
That's where the money is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Basically, now, that's where money is right now, Maybe they
can get some AI stuff. I don't know. I keep
having to watch that horrible zoom ad between the means
from from MLB network. Yeah, I I I would agree
with you. I don't think. I think when you're inserting
all these promos from these these things, you're you're pushing

(01:01:46):
people to they obviously are pushing people to bed. They're
or they're trying to, whether they succeed or not, they're
trying to. And then those people might have bad reactions
and or they might develop over time, you know, this
this type of reaction and and put players and their
families in harm's way, whether it's physical harm or you know, otherwise.

(01:02:10):
And again, my preference would be for them not to
do it. I think you can make that same case
for a number you know, you could do that for
other vices too, And I think my preference would be
probably best not to do those too, right. I mean, arguably,
you should be able to get a fair if you
have a compelling product, you should have an ability to

(01:02:31):
get a fair percentage of whatever you're getting in ad
revenue on this stuff from from other sources. Sure, but
I don't. I don't think it's generally the sponsorship that's
the issue here, right, I think proliferation of of I agree,
but I do agree. I think you have a fair point.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
I mean, they just suspended a bunch of players last
year for this, right, Like, you can't claim, like Luis
Chertis knot claim the ignorance that he shouldn't be to
do this. Right, Let's do quick injurie run down, Max
Munty has some knee pain, Craig.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Yeah, when your knee goes backwards, is that Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Yeah, he got his knee slid into at third base. Left.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
That was to be fair to that, although I don't
know that, I'm sure she'll diagnosis that was the mid
like he left the game with left knee pain.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Yes, that sounds like And the Dodgers are normally very truthful,
truthful about this. In like four to six weeks, he
avoided the worst case like you know what from.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
The horse's mouth here, So I don't know if that's
more credible or not. But he said no structural damage,
so it's I get I don't know exactly. Yeah, well,
and I mean it could just be really bad inflammation
could be right. I mean again, his knee flexed the
wrong way. Yeah, so that means he didn't tear ligaments. Right,

(01:04:02):
nothing's necessarily displaced long term, But it could just be,
like you said, a bone bruise. It's going to be
a pain tolerance thing. I could imagine weeks worth of
inflammation from something like that. Things went the wrong direction.
They're gonna play Enrique Hernandez and Miguel Rojas in the meantime.

(01:04:24):
What I said to you, is this like Alex Freeland time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Apparently not, No, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
It is stay Ruiz time. Yeah. Ah, And they promptly
got swept by did So who's also down Jeremy Pinion
and we're not Alvarez.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Which I'll go to in a second, but first in
h New Heights and burying the lead. In the last
sentence of about six different player moves, the Atlanta Braves
notes apps notes app out there, the Spencer Swenbach has
an elbow fracture.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
That that was wild. It was like, here's here's a
transaction update about Dais Beell Hernandez.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Yeah yeah first yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Also Spence also our young ascendant starter has a broken elbow.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Ye, so yeah, probably out for a bit. They they
they're talking like he might be back in September. I
somehow doubt that because I expect them not really to
be around a playoff race and seven why would you
do that. Spencer's falling back right, just get get ready
for Speaking of possibly getting healthy for next year, Jordan

(01:05:39):
Alvarez has had a set back.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
They have not said other than that step back, but.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Someone related to a shot, right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
He shot didn't respond well. His body is not responding
the way they want apparently.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Yeah, that's a real they. I feel like they've used
that for him before. But that's like very hockey to me,
just like the body's not doing well, it's like, oh what.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
And Jeremy Paano, you know we noticed by a pitch
a broker. Rib can't do any baseball activities yet, but
may also be back by the end of the week.
So I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Right, he has not been cleared for baseball activities could
be back before the All Star break, as you've said,
that's that's this weekend. So I'm gonna say no, probably not. No,
Is it possible? Can I? Speaking of wagers? Can I?
Can I put money on Astros discovering that he's like
got a double break somehow after this, because it's like

(01:06:37):
speaking of teams, I guess lying. They've had probably the
two most notable updates on a previously diagnosed injury recently.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Hey, they're like twenty games of five hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
They're rolling. They're rolling. They haven't lost what their last
thirteen series? Think they're eleven zero to two something like that.
They've one twenty eight of their last thirty eight games.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yep. The Brewers, who have also been pretty hot lately. Ye,
put ree Haskins on the aisle with the thumb sprain
and called up Andrew Vaughan. This is so Brewers coded,
like just replacing Reee Haskins with Andrew Vaughan. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Yeah, and then Drake Bower is gonna be in the mix.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, of course you use a little platoon there. Then
Bowers can play the outfield too. But yeah, and we
have some Brian Hayes trade rumors to add to our Mitch, Yeah,
the Tires and Cubs apparently obviously two teams. Could you
those third base? Yeah, it's it's a weird one to me,
he says, like a sub six hundred ops. I know

(01:07:40):
he's a very very good defender.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
I mean it's just you're well, yeah, I mean, if
you're the Cubs, I know Matt Saw has been not
particularly again, they're looking at replacements and I'm aware of that,
but like if you're if you're gonna hope, yeah, on
a The other thing is like, if you're the Cubs,
you're you're getting I guess he just send that show back, right,
Is that the you? Because like this he's on the

(01:08:04):
long term?

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Are you really like yeah, but you're not ture like
Hayes is like, but yeah, he's not. It's cheap, but
he's I know, the defensive metrics love him to the
point that he always is above water on like war
stats and stuff of them. Many do not know that
I'd be sitting that Shaw back for that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Well, so well, okay, maybe they're not to be clear,
but what are you saying to Matt Shaw if you
bring in Cabrian Hayes who has the same ops plus here. Obviously, yes,
better defender off the bat, but like you've got yours
on that deal. Yeah, maybe you eat the money. But

(01:08:48):
that's not the clubs the Cubs ownership.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Obviously, there's a lot of contenders that need their base
help with tires and Cubs, Yankees and Mets and not
a lot of It's like Cabrian Hayes and a Henio Soarez.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Yeah, I mean Suarez is I think this before, Like
Suarez seems like.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
He's gonna go for like a surprisingly large return for
an au Heno sres Rental. I have a feeling just
because I think that's gonna be.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
I know, you put him in the Yankees. Yeah, of
course that's good. Go pretty well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
I feel like, all right, it's no time for a game.
This is essentially it's called fat or Lean and this
is the picture version of the seven hundred club. I
am going to give you nine pitchers. You tell me
whether or not they have a e r A over
or under four this year. Obviously I cannot include Brandon
five because it's like five something.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
But yeah, yeah I would have I would have gone
over on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
So the first one, Sean Newcombe.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
The last I knew was you and and and and
Patrick telling me how good he is. They also cut
him because he's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
On the A's now as a reliever.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Yeah, thing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Over three point sixty five.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Son of it's not even close. I'm not you go
you go to Sacramento and off as a reliever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
I'm sorry, kider Montero.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
It's been a while since I checked in on Montera
and seeing it's like first I seen something in his
first starts. You know, everything's rosy in Detroit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Let's go under four point zero?

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Okay, So okay, so I just have to go opposite
my insincts. Yeah, time to make a quick adjustment.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Andrew Heaney, obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
He was very good early. I know it's been he's
not been as good lately, said over four. I looked
at him recently for some reason. I think just trying
to scrounge up starters who could get dealt Uh, let's

(01:11:02):
go under.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Four point one? Six the way the way to shooting
the moon at the delight.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Yeah, let's yeah, let's shoot the moon. The delight in
your face is.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Just you've got six left, You've got to get five.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Well, I don't know if that's gonna happen. Hunter Dobbins, Okay,
I don't, Dobbs, I don't over all.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
Right, you're on the board four point one zero, Okay,
we'll take it. Ryan Yarborough, Oh he was good, wasn't he.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
I just looked at the Yankees thing. I didn't look
at its e r A. I had their page.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
How would you look at Ryan Yarborough's.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
R well, because we were talking about all the pictures
they've used. You gotta be under. He was good for them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Under three point nine okay, barely? Yeah, good lately?

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Randy Vasquez, Oh god, he's under.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
It's bullshit, but he.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
Under three point seventy nine your back, yeah, three three
in a row.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
He can't keep getting away with it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
He keeps getting away.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
And he keeps getting away with it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Ronel Blanco, oh god.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
He was horrible before he and then he's hurt, right,
So I gotta be over.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
It's over four point one, not as over.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
As I thought. I thought he was getting blown out.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
So you need to get one of the last two.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Okay, don't it was going so well? Yeah? Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Valente Byozo, Oh my.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
God, I truly need no idea this this. Okay. If
I'm going against, I want to stay over, but I'm
gonna go against, so I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
Say under congratulations. Three point eight.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Oh, we reeled it off all right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
Five in a row. We do have to we have
to finish it off. We have finish it off with
read debt mes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Oh, he's he's been. I thought he was pretty good
as a reliever. I'm don't go.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Under it all right. Six in a row to finish
it off.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
That's nice. That feels good to start the week off.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
Well good. I just hope your internet stays up. Thanks
for joining us for another episode of five and Dive,
brought to you by the Baseball Perspectives podcast Network. You're
in touch with the show at five and Dive at
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just search the Baseball Perspectives podcast Network won't be in
that feed if you're on one of those services. Enjoy
what we're doing. We'd appreciate if you rate and review

(01:13:23):
us and rate and review us well. Thanks again for
joining us, and Craig's Internet permitting, we will see you
later this week.