Five and Dive, Episode 481: Roman, Reigns

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to episode for eighty one of five and five.
It is Thursday, August seventh. I'm your host, Craig Goldstein,
joined as usual by Patrick Debuke and Jeffrey Peter Nostro.
How's your week going, guys? Bad?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Better ones, But it's not the best week of your
life as what you're.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Saying, it's there. There have been multiple weeks that have better.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
This week.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Wow, wow, yesterday I get a ranking of every week
of your life. That's okay.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yesterday I was getting a crown and my dentist uh
hasward Yeah, has TVs uh And you know I won't
do a TV.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
I was shocked to discover this. When you were talking
about it was very I thought it makes so much sense. Yeah,
I thought you were talking about like just bringing a
tablet or your phone. I want to watch. Yeah, they've
got have like the little.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Flat screens are cheap nowadays, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
So, you know, the hard part of watching a movie
at the dais is always figuring out what the right
movie is for the dentist. You don't want to watch
something it's funny because you don't want to laugh while
you're while you're having your teeth drill. You don't want
something that's boring, and you want something that's too good.
So I chose Heat, the nineteen ninety five cop drama.

(01:35):
So the problem was that the headphone, the Bluetooth headphones
did not work, and so they're like, I just put
it on, you know, we'll ignore it. And I'm like,
are you sure, because I mean there's a lot of gunfire,
a lot of sudden gunfire, and I don't know if
the person drilling my teeth, I want, like having random
loud noises just happen while they're trying to work. So

(01:57):
they swore they would be okay with it, and I just,
you know, like I tried to listen to I put
the subtitles on, of course, but I tried to listen
to Heat while people were drilling in my mouth for
forty five minutes. I want to apologize to Michael Mann,
because I don't think this is the the way he
intended his master work to be watched.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
In forty five minute installment at the dentist.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
At the dentist with drilling noises basically drowning out all.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
I mean a lot of I watched Heat once a
long time ago in my twenties, which is I think
it's a good time to watch heat. And I think
a lot of it is just you're supposed to to
just sit with the exit. Yeah, definitely, not with a
drill just going intermittently. I think there's there's a lot of.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
I'm not the movie critic. Out of the three of us,
I'm the least qualified to make any film critique, but
like you're supposed to get like the Bombie, there's a
lot of just like it's slow, right, but you're you're
supposed to also, yes, yes, look it was a little slow.

(03:13):
My recollection of it is that it was a little slow.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
Watch it.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's a three hour movie.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, it's a slow It's a slow burn crime thriller. Right,
It's not like I don't know, but.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
So it's you're supposed to sit with that.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, right, well you got you again. You got de
Niro and Paccino and Kilmer, like what a time were
like It's like they're supposed it's like a showcase for them.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
There was there there will say there was certainly plenty
of tension, as you know, in for me personally, in the.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Wondering when the drill was gonna work up. So yeah,
so I supplied the tension for the movie.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
But you know my my review of the first forty
five minutes of Heat while hat Ball being drilled, it
was fine. I'll watch the other two hours in the quarter.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'll get there. Well, you take me here, yeah, I'll
take me all a year, but I'll watch it next
next dentist visit. Yeah, all right, I don't really have anything.
I don't think, all right, I want, I do want to.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
We'll take a moment then to do a baseball piece,
a baseball related banter. I'm looking at the ESPN this morning,
which is of course ten percent owned by the NFL,
but not by MLB, so I can still read this
headline number four on ESPN's MLB page. Kittridge boot a
day ago has immaculate ending, and I.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Just show them.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
I just want to know that there is no conflict
between those two facts. This is what every day of
being a reliever is like.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
That's a narrative arc.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
It's not redemption. Guy who had bad day then has
good day.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
I mean, yeah, no, I agree, Look.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
I agree, I'm back the week, come up there the day.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, I mean I this is good a good way
to find out Andrew Kittrick had and immaculated. I had no idea,
but yeah, no, you can boo a god. You can
boo a reliever one day and then right that is
just I would argue, it's extremely normal. That's just being
a reliever. All right, Jeffrey, do you have any banter?

(05:21):
Shall we get into this.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
I think we're good for now.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
All right, a double Patrick banter for everyone.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, that's nice. Let's get into our first topic. Then,
how often do you think about Roman Anthony? Well, it's
coming up quite a bit last twelve, fourteen hours or so.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
I don't know how long ago.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
What's Roman Anthony signed an eight year extension one hundred
and thirty million guaranteed can reach up to two hundred
and thirty million. I and even look at what the
specific terms are for him to get to.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
The it's very complicated. Also, oh good, it's very complicated.
There's also like some issues, what is this in.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Honor of Chad Green's contract? Indead we have he might.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
If he finishes in the top two and al Rookie
of the Year, which I don't think he will, but
he might obviously claws back the full year of service time,
which I think in some way affects the way the
contract works, although it sounds like it's just doesn't start
until I don't know. I don't I have not really
delved into the I hate these deals much like Patrick
for different reasons than Patrick does. There's just a bunch

(06:22):
of escalators and stuff like that. Whatever he's gonna have.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
To work more like is it more like the Julio deal?

Speaker 2 (06:28):
I think it's it doesn't have the weird like opt
out structure. I think it just has a lot of escalators.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Okay, Roman Anthony, like this isn't all of it.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
But Roman Anthony is twenty one home runs behind Nick
Kurtz right now, in the sense that Nick Kurts has
twenty three and Roman Anthony has two.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
So it might be a hot pillbow. So so yeah,
so Roman Anthony, it's there is a club.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Option for twenty thirty five or whatever, twenty thirty four,
twenty thirty four. Sure that's not a really thirty.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Four million dollars club option with no buyout, which is fascinating.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
That'll be his age thirty season. So it's not like,
you know, right, no reasonable that it might get picked up.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
So here's here's a I just was looking at Roman
at the reading Jenny's transaction analysis, and obviously, look, we
had him as the top overall prospect. We think he's good.
He's been good in the.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Majors for a lot of power. Yet it's Patrick in
the back.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Of an OBP, like a strong OBP.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, and better corner outfield defense than you might have
expected to.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right. But but I kind of just I got as
I was reading it, a vibe of like, this is
a little Andrew bid in tende ish potentially.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I guess it's also like I'm not.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Like I think he has power. I mean, and he
also slugged for seventy six his rookie year.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
We also ranked ben Attende very high on the.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Top three, right, yeahah, and no, but look, Andrew Benintendi
came up, put up almost games.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
A lot fucking harder than Andrew, I understand, like a lot.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
I understand. I'm not actually necessarily worried about that. But
like he then had a this is all our work,
a three win season and a four point eight win
season in his first three years.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
And yeah, and then he's almost.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, everybody can get hurt, right, Like BENINTENDI. I feel
like just the injuries just kind of started.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
An early guy too, based on like the shape of
his career in the relative athleticism. So there's that again.
This is I don't know exactly where this lands on
uh zero plus service time extensions. It's probably near the top, yeah,
because like Julio what Julo was in his second season

(09:00):
and wit was in like his fourth, third or fourth
before they gave this deal out. So this might be
the biggest. I haven't looked this is the biggest zero
plus extension or not. It feels like it should be
one hundred and thirty million guaranteed. This is just the
you know they have.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Now, Yeah, how how long was uh, how how far up?
How long was Corbyn Carroll up before his deal? That was?

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Was that the end of his.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Season?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Maybe? I feel like that was the off season before.
I feel I think it might have.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Still been zero plus technically.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Well technically sure, he also won Rookie of the Year,
so he gets the full but yeah, sure, but yeah,
it's still more than corpor Carrol. Right, So but I
think that's a pretty good comp here. You know, he
has not had Corbyn Carroll was.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
So that was January twenty twenty three and Carol one
Rookie of the Year. In the twenty twenty three season,
he had played thirty.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Two he played okay, so that's yeah, that's about That's
a good comp for Anthony's contact. Then yeah, yeah, Carol
Carol was good at the end of that year, but
not like fully Corbyn Carroll. I don't even know what
that means now. Obviously a very good player. But again
this is the.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Here's what's really interesting about like what what does it
mean to be Corbyn Carroll Because he's had it's been
up and down, right, Yeah, He's had four seasons thus
far in in the majors and he's gone one thirty
two ops plus one thirty three ops plus one oh
six obviously the down year last year, and then one
thirty six ops plus again this year. It's remarkably consistent

(10:45):
to be Corbyn Carroll, you know what I mean? Some
of that is adapting to the to the league and
and whatever. Like he's hitting two forty seven this year
and he had it two eighty five and twenty twenty three,
but like, I don't know, it's it's just a it's funny.
I yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
I didn't mean to.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Denigrate romananthe with the benin Tende reference, but obviously it's
a Boston corner outfielder who he's slugging less than Ben
and Tendy. Did I know he hits the ball harder.
I think he will slug as much as he does.
But also we're forty seven games into his career, right, Like,
if Ben and Tendy had gotten this contract at the time,

(11:32):
given his prospect pedigree, given what he had done thus far,
I think we'd all kind of say, well, yeah, sure, okay, right, yeah,
I'm the groundball thing.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
It's a bit of a concern because yes, he is
obviously like his his Ben Attende's ninety eight EV was
one hundred and one point five in his rookie year
and Anthony's is one of seven.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, no, it's a little higher. Again, I'm not worried
about but but like, it doesn't matter if you're hitting
it in the ground fifty five percent of the time,
which Roman Anthony is very close to doing right now,
and he isn't Like that's higher than his usual rate
in the minor leagues, but it's not that much higher
than his rate in the minor leagues he was hitting.
He's hitting ground balls at a forty five to fifty
percent clip. Most of it is way up the ladder,

(12:22):
and like, this is a thing that can be fixed, right,
And Christian Yelich fixed it sort of any and then
he didn't, right, And now Christian Yelich is hitting fifty
nine percent ground balls right, like he is almost exactly
back to early Miami days.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
I don't really know offhand why a batter does this, right,
Like why does Christian hit Yelich hit somebody ground balls?
He shouldn't, I don't think, like somebody should probably tell
him not to.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
But right, yeah, I mean Yelich is also an interesting it's.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Kind of a hard cap on what you can do
as a batter if you if you can't hit the
ball in the air. Yeah, no, And Anthony's played three
games and like it is too soon to d and
if he's forty seven, sorry, but like if if he
gets to forty five, that's fine, right, like if he
can get the ground ball right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, sorry, Jeff, I cut you off to talk more
about Andrew Benon Tendee somewhat, but you were you were saying.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
They have now like Ritt large locked up this young
core with Rafael and what happened to the Christian Campbell?
But they have basically signed I guess they self sign
while you're a brave to a long term extension, but
of otherwise walked out to this young I'm like, look,
and again, it's been an up and down year for
the Red Sox, right, they sure look like a playoff

(13:51):
team now, I say, not a team you're afraid to
play in the postseason, but also none of these teams
are good, so whatever, and it's good like this is
if there's a lot of discourse about whether this is
a you know, obviously the Red Sox have the leverage here.
Anthony had got a pretty big bonus even as a

(14:12):
third round prep back, like he got first round money.
But it's like two and a half million dollars or whatever.
This is one hundred and thirty million dollars minimum, like,
and you don't have to look any further than Christian
Campbell to see and that deal hasn't gone bad yet,
But what can what can happen?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right?

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Like, I think we've almost I'm not saying we swung
too far, but I think we're seeing so many of
these deals now that you're not just seeing the obvious
successes right with the top They were always around, right
John Singleton, Evan White, Scott Kingery, you know, for significantly
less guaranteed money. Those deals were also you know, a

(14:52):
half to a full decade ago.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, I mean what Singleton got ten million guaranteed, right, yeah,
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
But now, like the baseline even for some well like
Campbell was a good prospect, but like the baseline for
these deals was at sixty seventy eighty million dollars, like
thirty I think it was another one, right, yeah, he
got like thirty. Kingery got like thirty I think thirty
or forty maybe.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Forty five, I believe.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, And yeah, so now you're to sign these deals.
So ifow you're talking sixty seventy eighty, it's in time
of this early right, still you're talking.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, I guess that's a little bit what I was
getting at with Ben and Tenny, right, was like if
as I just said, like, if we if we saw
a commensurate deal given the era for Ben and Tenny,
given the prospects status and whatever, we'd all say like
that's fine. And then we would all say like, well,
did the Red Sox like went out on that. I
don't know, he was fine. Probably they did on the

(15:45):
pH yeah, war Per.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
But they also think that like they're not those good
years they were going to pay him seven fight thousand,
like he wasn't those weren't his arbiers, right, Like they
were the platform years for his arbiers? Like does Andrew
Andrew benin Tenny was a non tender candidate last year?

Speaker 4 (16:00):
That's right?

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Right, That's right.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
It could have looked like Kyle Werber, right, I mean,
like while to look at Kyle Schwarber at this point
in time and realized he got non tender.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, Like Albi's has a cheap option next year that
I think they'll pick up, but it's not as Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
I saw some posting about this. Dan Epstein wrote about
the Albi's contract in this and the thing is like,
and I get where some of this is coming from, right,
Like they might not they can justifiably not pick up
Albe's contract or his options, And we all thought, like
was that. Ever, they still came out miles ahead on
that deal because because he would have hit free agency

(16:38):
during his one of some of his.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Would have made way more in arb too, probably way
more in art. It's like the thing is yeah, I mean,
I get it, but also like that one is just right.
You have to evaluate the process at the time and
the comparable deals that are being signed at the time too,
Like it's not just merely how the.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Well but his alb is out of step at the moment. Yeah,
I get what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
I'm I'm not.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I don't think this is bad for Anthony. I do
there there's not a small part of me that wishes
guys would just go year to year though, because I
to max out and do more of what Juan Soto
did right, Like one Soto pushed things Wan Soda. Like
we can talk about how like it doesn't change stuff
for a bunch of guys, but like Juan Soto changed

(17:26):
Vlad Guerrero's market tangibly, yep, And there is a there
is a a waterfall effect, you know, or knock on
effect from these deals. Now how much it impacts I
don't know. Wan Soda probably isn't changing will You're a

(17:46):
bray news market right that much? But over time the
deals that get comped, right, because that's that everyone's trying
to set a bar right, like he and Soto impacted Guerrero,
and Guerrero is not the player that Soto is, and
so someone who's not the player that Guerrero is is
going to get impacted by Guerrero's.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, like Kyle Tucker is going to make a lot
more money this offseason.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
So the one soo and this there is a trickle down.
Now again, it's trickle it's not a lot. And I
understand that.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Number one time trickle down actually works.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yes, yeah, And I'm not saying it's the most you know,
efficient way to do things necessarily, right, Like, I think
the pressure needs to come from from the baseline salaries
up and stuff.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
When we talk about this.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Season in the last CBA, I think they will again
in this one. But I agree, right, and a lot
of CBA cycles not doing that, and.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
That's where I think the focus needs to be. But
I do wish these guys wouldn't to your point, they
can have him through his age thirty season. That's a
problem for the MLBPA in a way because teams don't
pay for thirty plus guys the way they pay for
twenty seven plus guys. Sure, and twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Right, but look, if he's a superstar. He's still going
to make another he's you know, another like I don't
know eight, and I don't know what the salary starcis
like another three hundred million after this initial deal too,
if he's that good. Yeah, I mean like like the
LBT bought up a bunch of like agent years and
things like that about of cheap options, right, like a
thirty four million dollars what one option is probably like

(19:26):
you know, probably close to market rate for a star
at that point. Still like well over whatever the Q.
I don't know again, I don't know, but.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
I think a lot of the reaction to these team
two teams signing steel is what you said, it's the
volume of them, Like it's all of them, right, And
it's like you you pointed to some of the like
standard ones that we referenced in terms of King re
And and Singleton or even like Evan White. But you
can look at the Pirates just got out of to

(19:56):
Brian Hayes, right, like they're trying to get out from
under that. Now maybe the.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Pirates guard and got out from under Andre Samanez.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Right right, Like these these are right, there's a lot
more like NBA trading bad contracts kind of thing right
happening I think about.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
It's also not that much money.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Well that's all I say.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
You can nitpick whether the pirates look that skill set
doesn't get paid an ARB, so it's less than it's
more than he would make an ARB. But it's also like,
you know, he's the best offensive their basement in baseball.
I don't know what that's worth you it's not worth much, right.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Well, And and look, entering this year, the sad the
Saiddan Rafael like deal looked kind of ugly, and now
now it looks good.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
We have a lot more years of Hayes not hitting
the ball in the air than we did sit on
a Fela.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
But yes, but but I guess my point is, like
these these deals there are there are so many of them,
and I know they don't all work out. But I
mentioned this, I wrote about this. Uh, I forget who
had signed a deal, but I wrote about this, and
our I kind of like these teams are a lot
kind of like insurance companies, right, Like they're just they're.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
They're aggregating, aggregating and like right.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Right, and they get so many bites at the apple.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Right if the Campbell contract is Campbell's like a complete
bust going forward, They're still going to make a ton
of like they might still make a ton of surplus
value on the Rafaela and Anthony concerts, and you just
loo get as a bundle, right, your bundle in.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Exactly that that that one person falling down or whatever
is just not that meaningful.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
And as they as we've seen.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
From Hayes and Jimenez, you can get out from these.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, well that's the that's the thing about this. The
the money has to go somewhere, and if it's either
going to go to the players or it's going to
go to the owners, right, And you know, the surplus
value that Anthony provides is like the whole economic sysem
of baseball is baked in that they underpay these players
the first six years, right significantly, So like even like

(21:47):
marginal players, right. But also if you put all the
marginal players in free agency, you know you're one two
win guys, they're not going to get paid either because
they're going to be you know, all you're gonna do
is raise the replacement level essentially in a lot of ways.
So again this is going to be you know, if
you're an incrementalist. This is what Yeah, this is, this
is right in your wheelhouse. They're going to have to

(22:07):
slowly raise the pre arm salaries so teams, so you
change the calculus for both teams and players.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yes, yeah, well, And I guess my point here is
that I think a lot of the reaction to these
deals are just that. I guess it's what Patrick said,
is that it feels like there's no way to win. Right,
this is a reasonable, this.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Is a reason. The way to win is you get
paid one hundred and thirty million dollars, right like that.
But that's I know.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
That's the That's what people are are responding to, is
that that is somehow.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Not a win, right, These are not These are not
real numbers anymore.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
The six years I said, I want guys to go
year to year, but like there's a ton of risk
in that. Yeah, and I understand I don't fault Roman
Anthony for this, but it feels bad that like, no
matter which way you cut it, the risk is is
basically all all on the players side, And that feels
ridiculous when we're talking about one hundred and thirty guaranteed,

(23:07):
one hundred thirty million guaranteed from the team side, but because.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
What was the line that, like Colt Keith had when
he signed his like thirty million dollars sets, He's like,
it goes it goes pretty far in Mississippi or I'm
miss Sippy like it's like.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
But but that.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
I think that's what it is, is that there is
no there's no. And it's also the team's ability now
to to manipulate this right like they can. They can
And we saw it very blatantly.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Literally with Cabrian Hayes, like they well.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
And and the Seattle was it Evan What? Who was
the who's the contract for?

Speaker 2 (23:47):
I mean there's been a lot of players where they've like.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Everyone, no, no, that that the president came and talked
to the Rotary club and said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
was that. I'm pretty sure it was Evan Light, wasn't it?
I think it.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
I think it might have been. And it's like.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
They wanted I think it's that they wanted to do
the deal with Julio before they were trying to get
these deals in place, they were trying to do the
John Singleton the deal right well, And I guess my
point is it's it's all leverage based, right, like they
and like the teams have all the leverage because of
the structure, as you're talking about the first six years.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
And also they decided you're a major league.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well that's that's my point, right, So even though this
is you're right, this is the win, but it feels
bad somehow, right, and like I think, like.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
I'm sure Anthony is happy, right.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
I think that's where a lot of the frustration comes from.
But I agree with people. You know, I looked at
some of these bravest deals. I look when Michael Harris,
and I know he's hitting the last couple of weeks,
but when he signed that deal, I thought, man, look
that's not that's actually a pretty good deal for Michael Harris.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
When Spencer Stryder.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Can oh yeah, the picture like that, you know, it's
kind of.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Like that's actually not that bad. Yes he has, but
there's a lot of risk.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Here, there is. And look, this is that the players
in some ways are making the best of a flaw
system when they can, right.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Right, But if it feels like as long as they
keep doing that, it never gets into a better system. Sure,
and then against again, it feels like there's no way
to win, right, And that's the part that feels better.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Like the owners are never going to give up the
six years of control, right, like you might like that's so.
I mean, even the teams that spend a lot of
money want to be they're also often usually pretty good
at player development, right, so the you know, the rest
doesn't go out and sign Alex Bragman. They can go
out and sign you know, send Garrett Crochet for way

(25:42):
more than this. They can go out this offseason and
sign Dylan Cease if they want to write because they
have these cheaper pre ARB extensions or guys on pre R.
But they have Will your Brad You're making some one
hundred twenty thousand dollars, right, yeah, So that's that's And again,
even the team that spend a lot of money, like
all these teams have budgets, right, you know the Dodgers,

(26:05):
even the Dodgers who just sign whoever they want, it's
still like they signed Will Smith to one of these right,
like it's a weird one, but they side they signed
later on, but yeah it was later on, but like
it's still like there's cost controls.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, And and again I just think that, yeah,
I just think it's that right, Like, I.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Mean, look, no one should be there, No one should
get paid seven hundred million dollars to play. I think,
I think if you do right, well, there is that
but like there's it's so.

Speaker 4 (26:33):
But when the when the industry is a is a no.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
But I'm saying like I'm saying that the ratification is
the issue, right, like the actual Like I know, obviously
war is not linear, right, and talent is not linear.
It's not There's far far fewer Wan Sotos than even
Saddani Raphael's around, so that that's part of it. If
the idea is to to win, you know, Juan Soto

(26:56):
can help you win for longer and more and bettering
not those year, but you have you win more better,
for longer. We'll get, we'll get, we'll get to the
next segment in the moment. But yeah, but like that's
they like you don't need everybody to be won Soto
in terms of like maximizing if you need more than
there are right now, I think, right, and.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
I guess it just yeah, I don't know. These these
are reasonable things. I think if you ran the numbers
from the player's side, they would tell you this.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
I'm sure, if you take the deal, I'm sure how
you aggregate these deals. But if everyone.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Always the deal, then you're you don't ever push things
for everyone else, right, Like you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (27:43):
I mean, look the you said the Vlad deal already,
but even the front line, the baseline numbers for Julio
and Bobby Witt were much higher because there is the
specter of yes, yeah they can get seven hundred if
they can get some one hundred million. If they wait,
they're not going to sign for one fifty maybe, right,

(28:04):
And that.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Goes back to like everyone said about Soto, and you
can go back and pull the episodes, like you know,
oh he turned down four hundred and forty and and
people were look, I know it was people all around
me as Nationals fans at the time, right saying like
four hundred forty million likely and.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Like he wouldn't have been wrong to take that either.
But yeah he.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Got seven to fifty. That's why I mean.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
And look, I said, like I don't Soto doesn't have
like the the Max Schuer's reviewpoint where it's like, you know,
I'm a union leader, I have to take the most
money I can to help the other players. I just
think he wanted to set a record contract because he's
wants that, all right, that's just like an ego thing.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, I also write, and I also think, like you know,
he has the benefit of not being a pitcher, and
and there are different risks as a corner outfields like
hitting type right that that he gets to benefit from.
But yeah, you know, I feel like we've we've gone
fairly far from Roman Anthony on this, But I don't.

(29:09):
I don't know what else to say about it at
this point, because Roman Anthony is, you know, it is
what we've seen so many of these, right, Like I don't.
It's probably gonna work out pretty well for both of them,
is I guess my default position on this? Uh? Patrick,
I don't know if you have anything else before we
move on to the next subject.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
No, it's an extension I very say on this subject.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
So let's go on to our second topic, my mind,
metro fraud. I don't know this one, Jeff, that's a.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Song my metro Card.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I say, oh god, what did I say, metro Card? No?

Speaker 2 (29:48):
You okay?

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Fair enough? All right, it's watch It's fraud watched time. Yeah,
and we're focused on New York.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yes, go ahead, Jeffrey, the only living frauds in New York.
We'll start with the other one I considered. We'll start
with the Yankees, who lost two of three to the Rangers.
After getting swept by the Marlins. Jake Bird gave up
another I think it was a three run homer this
time and has been optioned Aaron Judge's back. John Carlos
Stanton can't run out double playballs, this is uh. And tries,

(30:22):
he tried. He tries, like do you see the home
running hit where you like clearly cannot move his lower body,
but he's still so strong it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Like it's just that's just been John Carlos Stanton.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
For years, I know. But like this one was like
fairly like even for him, this was like over exaggerating.
He had it like four point thirty to dead center.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
The double play ball he hit like he hit that hard. Yeah,
was part of the problem. But when he hit that
in normal speed he would have beat it out. The
other thing is like that wasn't out like the curve
ball like clipped the outside corner. It was a perfect pitch. Yeah,
and Stanton just pulled it like just stretched out the

(31:00):
bat and pulled it, yanked it into the into the hole,
and like every if there were any kind of god
like that would work, like that would if divinity were
like rewarding human effort, like that should have been paid off.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
But nope, Like obviously his body has been falling apart
for the better part of a decade now. But I
do remember years ago, I was sitting down first baseline
somewhere at City for a match Marlins game, so I
was like open side for the righties. I remember watching
Stanton like swing the bat like it's like you talk

(31:33):
about like batspeed, like it was literally a blur. You
could not track the bat through the zone because it
was so fast. It's like one of those old like
it's uh, it's like one of those old like the
frame rate on the camera just isn't fast enough to
like catch. Yeah, yeah, it looks like a jump cut
when he watch.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
By frame Yes, like Carlos were done. Yeah, has kind
of sucked, Max Freed has kind of sucked. This is
a problem when you when then you're basically relying on
your your top three starters to get you through. And yeah,

(32:13):
I mean like part of this is bullpen and so
you know when you have bullpens. That's what happens. And
and then when when the when the streaks first started happening,
and you.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
Have sometimes you and sometimes you throw in a mac.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, sometimes throw in a maca. The Yankees are due
for a lot of immaculate but like the first week,
after the first week of struggles, it's like, okay, I bullpen,
and now it's like, okay, I have bullpen and and started.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Judges.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, I said on the I think literally on Monday
that you know, I'll like, they'll probably get in and
once they get in, they can shorten their roster. They
look at it. Now it's a little a little uh look,
I think one of the Rangers and Mariners.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
But it's a big series for the Rangers obviously that
there are only one and a half back now the
Guardians remain.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh yeah, they we'll get to that. Yeah, we will
get our guardians j series. It's just you can't avoid it.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, I don't know the Jays are gonna have a bye.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
At this that we just get it in the second round.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
And yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Guards Mariners, guards mariners.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
When you when you can't have guards.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Raised, yeah, yeah, the next starts there.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, next first thing, Yeah, I mean Fred has given
up at least three and four of his last.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
He does this like he's not really a true talent.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah, he's contact picture.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, you're gonna give a contact sometimes.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah, it's hard when you look at it. Look at
a team like this, are you bad for a week?
You know, it's just a week, and then you to go, oh,
that's possible for them. Have two of those weeks, right,
and go it's just two weeks. Like, at a certain
point you.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Look at it, there, what seven games over five hundred? Now,
like we played a lot of the season and they're
seven games over five hundred, right, Like at a certain
point if.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
You want to play the rended the American League.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Jose Marinho, the table lies, but also like one hundred
and six games you have one hundred and ten games
is a lot. Yeah, it's a significant sample.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, I still think they're fine.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
I guess they're kind of they're a little fraudulent though.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Are they more fraudulent than the Rangers is the question?

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, I don't like the Rangers. You want to talk
about their top three starters.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
There you have all the certainly put you know, made
his case for why the Rangers are better because they
have the Ibaldi.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Right, and look.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
This come from with Nathan.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
On this for periods of time before, No.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
I mean a little bit in this, never for this long,
I know this time, but never for this long in
a season. And it's just he's doing like a miniature
Zach Wheeler. Yeah like this. He's always also just going
eight innings like this was one of the most fragile guys.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Well, and he's always had a ton of arm talent,
like yes, oh you never like I remember the Nate
Avaldi like Henderson Alvarez, Marlins teams, right, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
I remember.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
I'm I'm so old.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
I remember them draft the Dodgers drafting in the eleventh round.
Well he had Tommy John surgery and you gotta be yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Dodgers have always been on their bullshit.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, yes, this is this is bananas. Yeah, you've Aldi
walked more than three Betters per nine his first five
seasons and he's done it once since.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Like you're gonna even throw that hard anymore? Like he
throws hard, but he doesn't throw like ninety.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Nine also didn't. I mean this is he this you're
talking about Max Freed like this is a little bit
that he never struck guys out like that, you know,
like like the rest of the league now he's up
to He just I mean, he's just a little bit.
But he started at six.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Ye added a bunch of like his fastball was hard,
but the command in the shape and grade. He's added
the split, He's added the cutter. Like he just has
a bunch of different and it is kind of Zac
Wheeler Ishan that way too. Yeah, he's just like, look
there's arm talent there and just keep adding.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
And it's also like, oh now he's throwing.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Now he threw one hundred and forty four that's like
the Nathany of all these season. And then he threw
one hundred and seventy last year and he said, come out.
I know he missed time this year, but he's gonna throw.
Like when he's been on the field, he's throwing six seven,
eight innings. Like it's it's just it's wild not walking anybody.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Wheel is a good comp I think that's a that's
a good description of how.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
His He's not as good, right, but it's a good
it's a good, good description of how it's gone. Yeah, Yeah,
that's it's it's incredible to me. Ah, sorry, we're on
and frauds, but I don't know, yes, because they had
to face.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Just like, I mean, they also just got swept by
the Marlins.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Well everyone is.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, yeah, you can't stop the powerhouse that is the Marlins.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Judge is back, so it's you know, we'll see.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
We'll see Jake Bird.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, I do have to reference Sam Miller's post, was like,
an interesting thing is that Jake Bird, Camillo Deval, and
David Badnar have all been option option.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Reliever.

Speaker 4 (37:45):
They've also all been traded to the Yankees.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
But yeah, like and.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Look, this is what this is on some level, what
happens when you pay for years of control with relievers.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
We talked about it at the time, right, like Mark
Lighter Jr. Was bad, but then he's in pretty good.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Ye, I mean like that they'll have other bites at
the Apple with these guys. But also like, but also
you needed them this year, that they needed them to
be good down this stretch, right, this is like the version.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
I mean the Dodgers traded for Brock Stewart to shut
down rights and he lost a game for them, right
like immediately, Yeah, it can happen.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
And get David Robertson on the Miami Marylands right like, yeah,
it's just you, Yeah, you just roll the dice.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
This is decided to roll a ton of ice. Now,
this is this is why Andrew Freeman didn't want to
trade for relievers coming to the year and sign them
all before the year. And turns out, actually, this can
happen over a full year.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Two Yeah, Scott.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
H Elsewhere in New York.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Jeffrey met the lost eight of nine. They just got
swept by the Guardians. Gavin Williams almost threw a no
hitter against them.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
Shout out to Stephen.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Vote for just not not even having anyone up.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Absolutely should have had someone up, very sad drink him
up the home run and then it was like, well
now he could we could probably let him. Now I can't.
The Caveman baseball instinct in me, though, was just clapping.
It was just like, that's right, but show confidence.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
In him of all the guys to do it with,
like Gavin Williams is probably not the you know Evaldi,
and it's like had everything wrong with him? As Fred
Wopond would say, uh yeah, I since so Sean Manya
debuted July thirteenth, and that's when they basically had their

(39:34):
full Brokay. Obviously Cannon got hurt in there too. I don't,
I don't the projected number. They're five starters of the
year Manaia, Mantas, Sega, Holmes, and Peterson. Uh. Since then,
they have not been particularly good. The pitching has not
been great. I mean, Manya has been fine on balance,

(39:54):
he's still kind of gets wasn't available, just wasn't available.
He's bad in the outing. They probably left him in
a little too long. The real problem has been the
lineup since Manaiah came back and they had what amounts
to their full projected opening day roster. I have to
scroll way down. I have to go to the second

(40:16):
page on fangrafts to find Francisco Lindor, Juan Soto, Pete Alnto,
who have let's see fifty one, sixty seven and sixty
five waiter runs created plus, respectively over the last month
ish of baseball.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
It's hard, it's hard to like.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, look, they got Francisco Awers back from Triple A.
He's been quite good.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Ronnie Mauricio has been fine. He basically never sees lefties anymore,
which is good. Jeff McNeil has been okay, yeah, he's.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Fine, Like you get you're getting the good Jeff McNeil season.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Last in the last month or three weeks whatever, it's
seventeen games for McNeil, seven teen percent walk rate, four
point six percent k rates. But he's also not hitting
for average anymore because he's just trying to pull the
ball in the air and he's Jeff McNeil like it
works enough that he's a better hitter than when he
was trying to just spray it. But yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
I mean, he sees the whip mary Field coming and
he's like.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, it's like the medium depth flyout. Yeah, like right
center field. But look, they had a seven game win
streak in this run. We should mention it's kind of
keeping them afloat even those games, they were kind of
like squeaking out wins. More than anything, they've been terrible
with runners in scoring position, one of the worst teams

(41:36):
in baseball this year, even though they have been a
large offense on balance, the pen's been overworked to the
point that they're starting to have for liver blow up flip.
Bringing in Rogers and Pellesley. I think it's gonna help
stave that off, but both have looked pretty good. Rogers
gave up a couple of singles his last time out

(41:58):
in Helsley, lost an extra inning game, but it was
like a ghost runner situation.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
But I mean because he he uh like he'll allow runners, yes,
like he'll usually gets I know he's not and that
wasn't even his fault, like but like he'll give up
over run.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
He gave up two runs, but they were both unearned
because there was a ghost runner and Brett Baidy like
throwing them all onto right field for ever. And like
they it has felt like with this offense, they have
to play perfect to win, and they really haven't been.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, I mean I think, uh, this sounds a lot
like the Dodgers. Yeah, especially in July and some I mean,
you know, the Dodgers just lost two or three to
the Cardinals.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah, Like, and they're in better shape than the Yankees relatives,
Like they're further ahead of a playoff spot, right and
they're being chased by the Reds as opposed to the Rangers,
right right, So I think I think they'll but like
you've got obviously there's been a lot of heat on
Eric Chabez and Jeremy Barnes, the hitting coaches because of this.
This goes back to last year.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Funny. The funnier part is like you're saying, it's they're
out of the Reds and they are in the third
wild card spot.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
They're two and a half back of Philly.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah, I know, they're like they're like not even, it's
not that far off a bye, Like there's no right
because like I mean, the Brewers are pulling away from
the pack in the National Beat right.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Now on six in a row and nine of their
last ten.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, but you know, I do I think they'll catch
the Dodgers and the Phillies. No, because they still have
six games off with the Phillies and the Phillies are
a bit of a mess themselves.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
And I mean, look, the Cubs actually have a better
record than the Dodgers right now.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, it's it is what it is in the National League,
and I think they'll be Okay, Derek Travis should stop
arguing with fans in his Instagram dms. But like it
it's just it's it's tough because when those four guys
aren't hitting, and like Nemo has been Okay, I'll throw

(43:53):
Nemo in here. He's been a little bit below average
over the last three weeks. Like what do you do right, like,
because the bottom of that lineup's not gonna hit enough,
even with Alvarez being back and good, Like, I don't
know what you do like it. It really is just
they have to play better. They've they've made their moves,

(44:13):
they have their players. It's like they have to play.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
And I'm not trying to as a Dodger, I'm not
trying to make everything about the Dodgers, but this is
a supremely talented team that needs to be that's supposed
to be not even carried. But like you have like
three or four tent pole yeah players and like when
they don't again, the Dodgers bad July was Freddie Freeman
not producing, Shoho Tani not producing like he's supposed to.

(44:40):
Rookie has been bad for an extended stretch. It's harder
to win games when that's happening, right, Especially those guys
hit at the top of the lineup, so they make
a lot of if they're making outs, they're making a
lot of outs, right like this is and it's the same,
it's with Alonso and Soto and Lindora, it's the same idea,
and you can have other players do their part and

(45:01):
have it not be enough when those guys are aren't
coming through. So you have here in our in our doc,
do one or both of these teams missed the playoffs.
It's it's I really struggle to believe the Mets will. Yeah,
I really do. That's that's a struggle for me. I

(45:22):
think the Yankees could.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
I again, both both these teams have the talent where
if they just play. Like again, I made this point
on for all your kids out there, the Mets are
getting like a lot of like fortieth percentile outcomes from
like Lindor and Soto. You know, Alonzo is probably above
median at this point, even with this his slump recently,

(45:48):
but you know, some of these pitchers, you're probably getting
a like fortieth percentile outcomes. With Peterson's outside of his
last star, I've been quite good. And there's still eleven
games over five hundred, right like it used to have
the Mets a getting fortieth percentile out comes, they win
seventy four games because they're a high area's roster.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
I look at the standings and Pakoda actually has the
Yankees with a higher playoff percentage than the Mets. Yeah,
just the hair.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
But yeah, someone that might be just the team, I
don't know, team.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Someone that's the league right, like buys into the Yankees'
top line talent more than the top line talent right
done this year.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
But I think the difference is like.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
The are you getting from Aaron Judge like Kakoda can't
know and we can't. That's part of it too.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yes, that's where I'm more doubtful than Pekoda, but the
system is not going to know he's playing.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Through uh yeah, albow, elbow flexor ten done whatever. Yeah,
I don't like, neither team really wants to be here
at this point. But again, like you said, like that,
the Yankees probably aren't winning the division. The Mets still can,
which is very funny. Even the Mets have probably played
a little bit worse recently.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, all right, why don't we take a break and
we'll be back with the rest of the show. Welcome

(47:25):
back to episode four hundred and eighty one of five
and five. We are on our third segment. We're going
around the horn and Patrick, you had a nice little thread.
Well you had an article on the Nationals in mid
season autopsy, and then you had a thread that I
inspired you to look up, yes, about how many hits

(47:46):
the Nationals had given up. They'd given up eighty hits
in a four game span, Yes, And they were heading
into a game where they had called up former top
pitching prospect Cade Cavali, who had a six something e
r a at Triple A against the Sacramento Athletics in Sacramento.

(48:09):
So it was looking like it could be, you know,
we could be maybe not a record, but at least
in you know, going back into some history they needed
to get like, yeah, they they needed a good performance
out of Kovali, like good isn't bad in order to
make it. But yes, they were, they were threatening. The thing,
the funny thing about looking at.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Like those kind of streaks is that we were looking
at four game with eighty hits, five games with ninety hits,
and the six games.

Speaker 4 (48:33):
Ninety eight hits.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
I think they needed to give up nineteen hits, yeah,
for which I know if you're listening at home, you're like, no,
nineteen hits, Like that's not going to happen. But they
had given up twenty twenty five within the last four games.
And the funny thing is you look at that, you
look at play index or a stat head or whatever
you call it now, and uh, it's all twenties Phillies teams.
There's like nine of them, nine different Philly. Yeah. Well,

(48:56):
if you go down our most defeated teams in his career,
what are the nineteen twenties Phillies for there for being
at the tops of these lists? Basically, that's right. But yes, Kavali.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
The other my other fun fact was that kay Kavali
had until yesterday, had more annual comments in his career
than innings pitched in the major league level. He'sn't been
in five annuals and four point one innings pitched. He
is now above that because he pitched last night and
pitched another four point one innings. He mirrored his He

(49:28):
doubled his career total.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
This time. It was good though, and then yeah, struck
everybody out. He had six strikeouts in four and a
third three hits, allowed only one walk. It doesn't it's
not going to jump off the page in you know,
in terms of four and a third six strikeouts like
we see that Showyotani struck out eight in four innings yesterday.

(49:52):
The thing is, I don't know what his total count
was at the end, but I think I had seen
someone said he had seventeen whiffs in four innings at
the time. And this is a guy who just had
been getting hammered basically basically everywhere, and like the stuff

(50:12):
looked crisp and and sharp and I just came out
of nowhere, like the yeah, criptball in particular, he threw
twenty six of them yesterday, eight of them in the zone.
Thirteen whiffs that's bananas, and a lot of.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Them were not close to the zone and they was
he was still getting wets on them. It was it
was impressive, like it was good he get the fastball up.
You know, he was working north south And.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
I'm sorry I said it was in Sacramento.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
This was in d That's the funny thing is that, yes,
all of this has been happening in DC and at home,
particularly Neutral Park. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, good good friend guy.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
I pray they took some shots on him. And that's
what happens when you're a writer.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
You know your your bood one day again, Yes, yeah,
it felt like a pretty safe joke to make.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
I mean look, I like, Jeff, I don't know, does
this I'm okay again, Like I'm going to use the phrase,
I'm gonna use the phrase arm talent again.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
There's a lot of arm talent here, but he's never
been hell, he's been hurt a lot. Yeah, and like
even the fastball, Yeah, it's upper nineties, but you know,
he was drafted on an era where teams and especially the
Nationals didn't know a ton about fastball shape. And it's
like not the like the command in fastball. The fastball's
never played to the radar gun readings. The brigand ball

(51:42):
has always been good, but the fastball have never really
played the radar gun readings. But like it's still a
pretty high radar gun reading. So if you can locate
marginally well to set up the curve. And I don't
know how this works long term, if it does, it
all Like I've always kind of thought, if he makes it,
it's going to be as a reliever now, but we'll see.
It's good start.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
They've got they've got room for him, they do, Yes,
the dried out is this sah Patrick, your mid season
autopsy on the boy.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
It's dark. It's some dark stuff like they they went
out and got some starters and all of them have
been bad. And then basically all of their homegrown pitching
has broken, right, Like I went through and looked at.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
His second half ye back slood.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, he sure is. But like I went through their
drafts from like twenty eighteen to twenty twenty one, and
their success stories are two bad middle relievers because there
the only two that made the major leagues out of eight,
you know, top three or four round picks pitchers for
four years. It just you can't do that.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
You can't you can't have a successful team if you
just don't generate a pitcher for four straight years. We
talked so much about cost control. You need to have
guys who's cost you can control h and so you
know it, I don't is it getting better? Like I
didn't talk to you before this article ran, Jeff, because
I kind of figured I knew what the answer would be.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
But like, it doesn't seem like it's getting better.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
I mean, they've it's tough to talk.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Looks fine, right, Yeah, he's.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Coming the other side of the injury scare. Sakora had
Tommy John surgery. Yeah, you know, houses already up, Like
who is the who do they have left in the
high miners that's going to be a near term contributor.
It's like the Johandi morales, like not really right, it's
not right, It's it's in a weird like it wasn't
a great system coming into the season, was all right,
and they graduated guys like Cruise was still Cruise wasn't eligible.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Sorry, but.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
You know they still have like they're they're twenty five
and underlist looks a lot better than their prospect list, right,
And that's fine. There are teams that are like that,
but they also don't you know, the guys are and
hitting like their core is playing reasonably while outside of Cruz,
who's been hurt, and they're going to win seventy games
this year, right, Like.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Well, Mitchell Parker turned into one of the worst pitchers
in baseball. He's given up four runs today.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Just yeahs as we're talking, Uh, Jake Irvin has been
exactly what Pekoda expected because Pakoda didn't believe in Jake
Irvan and it turned out to be correct, just like it.
I think the thing with the Nationals is that they
have wood now, right, they have Abrams like all of
their Stars have been good. Abrams has been Abram has

(54:34):
been has been good. Wood has been good. Uh, you know,
Garcia hasn't been good. But like all of the all
of the core pieces that you would expect the team
to be building around have done pretty well. Cruz is not.
Cruise is kind of underperformed as peripherals when he was
healthy and when he was playing not kind of kind
of he was very much underperformance.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Yeah, and he I think we talked about it like
he was just breaking out of it and then he
got hurt.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Right and and you you would want that, right, except
the problem with the Nationals is that you have no
faith that they're ever going to actually surround those guys,
either through spending or through that next wave of prospects.
They just like most teams, have figured out how to
kind of they're not supposed to, but they can off together.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Would you rather be a fan of the Marlins right
now or in the Nationals.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Didn't we just ask this? I mean maybe I asked
this in a group just came up in a group chat.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
I thought this came from the five. It came up
on for all you kids out there, That's why I
did a different podcast.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
I mean, yeah, but would be traded away.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Yeah, the Marlins, like Mikes are the Marlins. I just like,
I don't think I think they're playing above their heads, right,
Like I don't think how they are.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
No, that's not that's not my question.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Well, the problem is like they they have a better system.
It's a much deeper system. They have a lot of guys.
They don't have a lot of dudes. I think there's
a line I used on right kids out there, like
they're probably going to trade Cabrera and I'll contour at
some point just because it's not going to line up
with their next Your Cabrera's been up long enough now,
like it's not going to line up with their next
tounch window. Like Jerry Prez is very good, but he's

(56:13):
also coming off Tommy John like, and he's very good.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
I don't think Kyle Stowers is.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
He's running the most seventies in zone contact rate and
he hits the ball pretty hard, but not like but
like I don't.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Think you're like, oh, we're getting a nine hundreds.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Right, he might just hit two forty with twenty eight
home runs. It's gonna be like a roll five corner outfielder,
which again is fine. But and again they got the
huge Kyle Stowers season and they're going to finish around
five hundred maybe a little longer, right, Yeah, And I
don't have it like where the upgrades are coming from.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Right, they have not at least the Nationals have gotten one.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
The national The Nationals have stars in a way the
like so the yea not even tho, I agree, but
the floor, like you can it should be where for
the Nationals from. It should be easier for the Nationals
to find six like league average starting pitchers and position players.
Then it Marlins to find to James Woods, right, like yes, yes,

(57:08):
it's it should be, but they're going to do it,
and they haven't a good at it, right. Look, maybe
maybe Mike, they're worse at it than the Royals. That's
what I will say about.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Like maybe Mike de Bartolo is going to be this
than than they made before, although he was there before.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Right, And the job, the job really here is get
the learners to spend money.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah, right, well that's and and I guess this is
all kind of My point is is, look, if if
Peter Bendix was running the Nationals, I would probably feel
pretty good actually about them finding turning up.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Some plus like turning up, turning Kyle Stouers into the
maybe not this, but into a regular like Xavier Edwards
has been fine, like okay, fine, yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
This is like they're turning up these he traded.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Jazz for I guess in Ramirez, who looks like he's
going to be a majorally hitter, a pretty good one
if we'll figure out where he's gonna play later.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
But I mean they should probably figure it out that
there's nothing else to do right now. I mean they
also and again I don't know how much to credit
the bend it. Maybe it's too much credit to give
to Bendix and the player Dead, but like Robbie Snelling
has gotten back on track a little bit for them,
Like you know, Thomas White is looking pretty good.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
Some of them is just development.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Some of this is is just you know, variants within
a player and how they perform. I don't I don't
want to give too much credit on this stuff, but like,
I don't know, it just seems like they can find
you know, like.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I think the I think the Marlins have a higher
floor and the Nationals have a higher ceiling.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
And so I will definitely no, the National ceiling is
undeniably better, right, Like, I don't want to under I don't.
I don't want to understate like the they have a
much bigger advantage, yes, walking into this, And I guess
my point in asking the question is like they've been
so it's it's what Patrick seeing has been so bad

(59:07):
at finding. I have so little hope.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Or developed, like they can't backfill internally well that they
don't develop the guys into it, Like they can't make
Johnei Morales a major league regular, right like, that's that
he might regular? Right?

Speaker 1 (59:27):
I mean the Nationals have the worst catching.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Position and they offended him right like, and not.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
For a lot, and well, you know we should have
talked about that. And the he can't do it. He
can't catch, he can't do anything else. He's his solution
to hitting is to do more of what he was
already doing, sacrifice more speed for contact and that speed,
that speed. Yeah, and it's just he has no actual speed.

(59:55):
I think Patrick wrote this and it's devastating, but it's
just true. Like he he just he puts the ball
in play so much and he's a catcher, so he
runs like a catcher and it's like, well, you're just
making outs.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
I don't like, you have to hit it to the outfield.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Yeah, and he can't. There was like a two weeks
stretch at the beginning of the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Season, and I think my conclusion is I don't want
to be a fan of either of these stands.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Yeah, okay, fair enough, fair enough. There's a lot Valley
I apologize elsewhere. Byron Buckston still wants to stay in Minnesota,
which is I guess that means Byron Buckston is staying
in Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Yeah, it's up to him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
I had sent to Jeffery like, we could potentially make
Minnesota a full.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
We did on the Nats instead of Parenta.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
We did on the Nats instead. But I think there's
an interesting I was I was reading Joshian Gonna talk
about the deadline for Minnesota and and he does his
like third third previews, and I was looking at Minnesota
and like, I don't know, I kind of thought, you know,
I I was kind of wondering about the potential for

(01:00:59):
them to trade j O Ryan and or Pablo Lopez
in the offseason, and like, is there a compelling case
that they're any that they're they can They're obviously not
running it back.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
It's a new team, right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
But like that their position to contend in the way
that Minnesota keeps contending and failing again like in twenty
twenty six makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, and they actually have some bullets to fire, right,
and they're a little better at some of the dev stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
Than Kishaw just came back and people just good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
I don't think, Yes, the Keisha is good. Like you'll
probably see Emmanuel Rodriguez after.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
The It's is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
All their guys are kind of at the the right
major league level or almost at the major right level, right,
Like they have a number like, uh, at some point
they're going to pull the Walker Jenkins level lever because
otherwise he's just getting hurt.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
In the minors.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
I mean, like all these guys are such twins guys,
they're all landing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
On the eye out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Yeah, I mean Jenkins is probably more of a late
twenty twenty six guys then okay five guy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
But that's in the it's on the horizon, right, Like, yes,
Matt Walmer has looked a little bit better of late again,
Like maybe you get a good season from royce Lewis.
Byron Buckson is still going to be here. They acquired
Alan Roden, who's going to be there next year.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
He's going to be there, He's going to Emanuel Rodriguez
continues to be just extremely Emmanuel Rodriguez. It's yes, again,
it's not a big sample because he has Emmanuel Rodriguez.
He's been hurt for a large chunk of the year.
But h one ninetieth one fourteen max uh twenty three percent,

(01:02:41):
Chase seventy seven ze contact just.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
Like one weight ninetieth is bananas.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Yeah, yeah, and it's been higher in the past. It's
a fairly sample.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
I don't know, because you look at the rotation for
next year and if if they keep them Joe Pablo Lopez,
Joe Ryan h. Zebby, let's say Zebbie Matthews. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
They're still mucking around with Zebbie man. He's like throwing
the ball very hard and it's been worse. But yeah,
they might get something out of it. They've got they
got Corey Lewis, They've got Andrew Morris, they have David
Fastas so like they have arms and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
They just got Todd Bradley and mcabel and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Hendrey Rojas who might be a Henry Rose factor as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Yeah, and you look at it the fact that it's
the central and I know the Tigers are good now,
they're good, like good, Yeah, they're good. I'm not trying
to ignore that, but like that's that's not a bad basis.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Now. The problem is none of those guys will stay
healthy next year.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Yeah, especially on the offense. Yeah, yeah, I just right,
And I know that they're in better shape than I
think almost any other team who's ever time as much
of a tear down, right, I.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Mean, I'll put it this way, do you think Luke
keyshil r Carlos Korea is better in twenty twenty six
puts up more war.

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
I I honestly don't know what to expect from Carlo's career.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
He's got a feeling I'm also I'm also like, I'm
in the tank for Luke Kishael. It's really stupid, but
I might say him but I kind of just buy
the bat, I really do.

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
I just like I think he's just good and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
I just the Twins were so weird, Like they get.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
A great Byron Buxton season and everything went wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:04:29):
It's just it's a little weird.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
I don't know, And I guess this isn't as interesting
maybe to anyone else except me, because in my head,
I thought, oh, this is more more tear down is coming.
And I was reading this and you know, reading some
of our commentaris on some of our articles talking about
like the state of the team and all of that stuff,
and obviously the ownership is a huge problem.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Right but they're trying to sell the team.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
They're trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Sell the team. But as we've seen in Baltimore, that
doesn't necessarily mean much.

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
Right like.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
But I was looking at it, I just said, this
is a better situ situation then I was anticipating for
twenty twenty six. I didn't think it was going to
be necessarily be a long like truly to the Studs
rebuild like, but I thought maybe twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
It's better than I thought for twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
I will just do one more Emmanuel Rodriguez fact, because
he's a fascinating prospect to me. This year against righty's
in Triple A, it's still been terrible against lefties three
h four, four, seventy seven, five eighteen, Why they forty
six to thirty four strikeout to walk ratio in one
hundred and forty nine plate appearances, so it can at
least hit lefty right Yeah. Yeah, but it's just like

(01:05:34):
it gets like a hue, like he just he's walked
or struck out in more than half his plate appearances,
even against righties. Yeah, it's just a wild probile, like
it might completely collapse in the majors or he might
be you know, Mount mount Er but can play, can
play center.

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Speaking of twenty twenty seven, the Cubs will get the
All Star Game.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Yep, sure, okay, yeah, else So.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
The locate the All Start Game only matters when it's
in my town. Yeah, otherwise it means nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
H I might That's when I might go to just
I've never been to Wrigley, so I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
I mean, you guys have you guys have lived places
where you can get to some other town? Is it like,
is it not nice when it's like nearby?

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
No, well yeah no not not for Jeff.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Yeah, I will say twenty twenty six is uh is
is Philly, so pretty easily go to that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Elsewhere. Chris Flexen, Chad Green, and Martin Maldonado.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Rough Week, Rough Week, for the POD.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
I don't the fact that we don't have to discuss
Chad Greene's contract anymore. Patrick, you're in your reliever round
up the chatan thing where it's like they've discovered that
he's entitled to half the fishes in the Sea of
Ontario or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Was which of the which of these players has the
longest major league career after this?

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Oh well it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
I didn't think it would be mal Thanato last year.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
That's true. I wanted to say, I was gonna say Flexen,
I'm gonna say green because no relief.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
Yeah, that's true, but Flexing is just a reliever now,
it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Lexin also like was fine until I mean, he's been
really bad the last few weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
But if you didn't go up and throws like flex
and throws like what harder this year?

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Very Yeah, Flexen has big like twenty twenty six angels vibes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Yeah that's true.

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):
Yeah, yeah, frankly so so all three of these guys.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Yeah, I mentioned the Orioles.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Grayson Rodriguez has an elbow deep brideman. But I gotta
be honest with you, I've mostly heard this about I
guess it could be any joint, but I've mostly heard
this about shoulders and maybe and and some hip.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
I don't recall seeing an elbow to Brideman very much,
but that might just be my memory. I always felt
like the bride seemed like an equestrian term.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
It doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
Yeah, well, I don't know when he'll be back to
something for I don't that seems bad.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
It does, it's not great.

Speaker 4 (01:08:11):
I don't know what the recovery time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Obviously they're gonna hope to have him next year out
of but I don't know if it means the beginning.
I don't know if it means middle you know. Uh,
the padres option JP series. He had one bad start
for him because I don't know who. I don't know
who's pitching to.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
One thing, there have is a lot of surplus starting
pitching to draw from for the rest of the season.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
So yeah, as we've we've been saying all year. Uh.
And the last little item of note here this gut
Jeff and I talking right before the pod. Kelly Jansen
wants to pitch at least four more seasons. He has
he has a saves record in mind. I believe he's
he's approaching five hundred I think that was all and

(01:09:00):
so he'll definitely he should if he if he does this,
he should definitely get to five hundred. Yeah. Uh, he's
eleven away from Lee's myths. What was a record before
Trevor Hoffman and Marianna Rivera. You know, he so, so
that is possible for this year, if unlikely, he'll almost
certainly get to that. It's just whether he gets to

(01:09:22):
five and or so. If he gets four more seasons
after this one, it's likely, but but six is is possible.
How many says does Kenley Jansen need to have to
be a Hall of Famer because that will be that
will be the one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I think he's probably like five hundred. I think he's
definitely and I think I think he's probably already there.
But I think five wild definitely get him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Man, he's had for sixty seven, I think, Craig, do
you think he's already there? I think I think if
he retired right now, yeah, okay, but I think when
Jeff's saying he's already there, is Jeff is saying with
the dissent.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Okay, yeah, I mean, I just I don't know you
are for relievers, I know that hasn't been a better
reliever than to eight e R. I know somebody will
givehim another one in twelve to close. It might be
the Angels again with Chris Flexen setting him up, he
might not have a lot of leaves for tech then.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
So this is I'm sorry, but like he he should,
it's probably gonna be a bad team because because a
good team will Like it's like you're telling me that
the Dodgers or Cubs or Phillies wouldn't have been good
better served by just signing him to a to one twelve,
one eleven whatever and just letting him.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Don't want to lock in. They're like, usually you have
to be the.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
No, they won't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
I think he wants to close, right, He's taking jobs
to close, so that's gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
The Phillies walked in with Jordan Romana. Well, yeah, I'm sorry.
I know he's been the second tier or worst closer,
like team closer for several years now, right we're looking
at Boston for two years and and the Angels. But

(01:11:10):
he would be better served. I mean, I think a
lot of these teams would be better served just giving
it to him and letting their firemen working in higher
leverage or whatever. Is that crazy? Like, I.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
I'm obviously biased. I like Kenley Jansen, but.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Unless you know, the Blue Jays went and signed Jeff Hoffman,
that's working out right, But the Tigers don't have haven't
had a closer all It's been Will Vest most of
the year, right, like the Rangers. Maybe, yeah, it's been
Robert Garcia and Luke Jackson. Well it was Luke Jackson,

(01:11:52):
they they obviously, then it's been Robert Garcia and now
it's I don't know film Nye Tone was was getting
that I need to learn how to say a Mayton
may I need to learn how to say that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:01):
I feel like I'm saying it wrong every time again.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
I look, Daniel Polenti has been great. It's not a
shot of the Cubs. But like they tried Ryan Press,
I'm sorry, but spending money on on Kenly Jansen is
a better investment than Ryan Presley and we knew that
going into this year. It doesn't let teams be as
cute though, which is just which is signing a closer
for market rate? Is it's so nineteen ninety eight, Like,

(01:12:27):
come on, I just don't even what is he making
this year?

Speaker 4 (01:12:32):
Is it even market rate?

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Like I mean, what is market rate for a closer
because every closer is now your twenty five year old. Yeah.
Well but again, like Jordan Romano, costs not insane that
they paid him more than he was he was non
tendered and then they paid him more than gave him
ten a million?

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
Right, yeah, what's a million or two for Kenley?

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
I just again, like I just you run down the
number of the teams, as I said, like the Cubs,
the Dodgers, the the you go to the Diamondbacks. I
know they had a bad year, but entering this year
they had aspirations and it's it was like Justin Martinez
and Kevin Kinkle and and AJ Puck and and all

(01:13:14):
those guys, and.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
The Orioles thought they were doing this last year with
Kimberl and it blew up in their face. But it
only blew up in their face halfway through the season,
after having anything like half a year of actual good
relief pitching from it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Yeah, but I'm sorry, Kimberl wasn't bad, but that was bad.
But Kelly Jansen is is like average like Kimberle, Scens
stink it up for years.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
Right, they were they were getting Kimber because they thought
they could make him better than that, and you know
they did.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
I think it's I'm I'm I'm not disagreeing with you.
I think it's fine to just have a nice, safe closer.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
And this isn't saying Kenley is like actually good, he's fine. Well,
the thing is that he has not been sent to
Triple A. And as we were seen with every other
reliever in baseball, like I do, at least shows up
every day. Like at some point, you have to have
value in itself, even if it's even you know, even

(01:14:07):
if it's like, you know, the fifteenth best closure in baseball,
like knowing you have the fifteenth best closure in baseball
is just take it, take it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
It's just like it's yeah, I agree. But also these
guys usually go into their walking story at some point
and like he just right, he wants to close.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
So yeah, yeah, but and I agree with you, but
I guess my point. My point is just to go
back to what I yelled two minutes ago, was like
the Cubs, Hubs spent money to acquire right look, and
again plancy has been fine that that worked out for
them in that way and they had Porter Hodge and whatever,
but they acquired Ryan Presley, who they just.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
Had to cut.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Well. They also had to pitch Ryan Presley for a while, Yeah,
to find out he sucked.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
No, they didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Actually we had a pretty good idea, but they didn't,
and they, like, I think I probably would have said,
he's he's okay, but this was still a bad idea
to like to walk in with him as your closer.
I just ken ling to me for a million or
two more, because I think they paid and he was
owed fourteen million and they paid ten or something like
that for for Presley, Like just go get just go

(01:15:09):
get Kellen Janssen, Like he's gonna be fine, and then
you can use your Porter Hodges and your your Daniel
Palencias and whoever in front of him.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
One of the one of the group chats is suggesting
the Giants, which I pos he played against him too.
That's why I like that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:26):
Yeah, oh surely, and the giants.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Need Yeah sure, absolutely, Yeah, it feels right he could
maybe get thirty saves with the I didn't mention that
they've been fifty seven and fifty seven each of the
last four seasons now, it's a good bit.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
That's actually, you know what, it's an average bit.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
It's it's a Chris Davis bit that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Takes us to what to watch. That's right, everyone, it's better.
I'll start us off. Uh, this this will anger the
one listener. But I went with the Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Yeah, suck it up.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
It's the it's the Blue Jayson, the Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
The team first place teams.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
Uh, not sure if either are that good, to be honest,
but they're in first place for now.

Speaker 4 (01:16:11):
Why not.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
It's a Boba shak auditioning for the Dodgers for next year.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
It's a nice aesthetic, uh, matchup in a lot of ways,
although it's maybe a little too much of the same
aesthetic in terms of the Blues.

Speaker 4 (01:16:22):
But that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
I know. Yeah, yeah, you get Dan Schulman if you
don't want Joe Davis. I know some people love Joe Davis.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
That's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
Doing the Saturday game too. I don't know who they are,
yeahurday Fox game. I don't know who back up they?

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
I mean it might be Patrick's. I don't know if
Patrick wants to could could easily be what Patrick has
has here. That's your that's your intro.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Patrick, So, okay, finely, I figured we would go Jet
next because he also went with his own team, but
I will I did not. I'm going with the R syllable.
I'm going with Red Sox versus the Padres. I just
feel like, first of all, to you know wild card ones, right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
These also feel like two similar teams and very similar
teams to not quite complete but very talented teams.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Just it feels like a opportunity for chaos. It feels
like that there's gonna be like one game that's three
to two, one game that's six to four, in one
game that's going to be thirteen to twelve. Yeah, you'll
get the whole you get one series, you'll get the
whole experience.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Oh. I also sorry to reverse, but I would be
remiss if I didn't mention in the Dodgers, the first
game of the Dodgers Blue Jay series is Max sures
Are versus Clinton Kershaw. Yeah yeah, yeah, And they they
faced each other, Yes, they were. They were like two
thousand and seven, I guess, yes, September two thousand and seven.

(01:17:47):
So that's that's kind of a fun little callback. Also,
I I my understanding is they don't love each other
despite their time, or perhaps because of their time.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
Is so that should be fun. Sorry, no, that's fine.
Just like I we don't know exactly who's pitching for
the Padres this weekend. They have demoted two of their
five starters in the last week, which yeah they did.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
They back filled one of them with nest record, Yeah
they did, They did do that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
They will There will probably be a bullpen game for
the other one because they got a wait, they gonna
spend ten days before they can call one.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
Of them back up.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
But unless there's an injury.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Unless there's an injury, that's very possible.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Jeff, I went with Brewers Mets. These are not two
of the same teams in any way, shape or form,
the kind of it is a big series, the first
trip for the match to Milwaukee since last year's playoffs.
They might bet again in the playoffs this year, I
god knows, and I will not be in the division series.

(01:18:51):
I have a buye. Just the Mets need to like
stop the bleeding. And this is the Brewers. They I
think they took to it a three at home when
they played the Brewers. The Brewers had been a bit
of a bet noir for them. Because just like they
put the bases well, I mean even when they were
not good. It's like Bryce Terrang turns into like Joe
Morgan against the match basically, so and there's just a

(01:19:14):
lot of other Bryce Terrangs all the way down.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
Yeah, that is incredibly frustrating team to have to play.
I'm yeah I would.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
I did not enjoy the experience.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
I mean it didn't help that the just lost every game,
but like just getting beat and again beat the Brewers. Yeah,
credit to the Brewers for everything that they do, but
getting beat by Isaac.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
Collins is an absolutely caleth fraylek.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Yeah. I cannot encourage a midstand to watch this weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
It's you probably shouldn't. Andrew Vaughn's going to hit some
ridiculous home yeah, Gregorisoto, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:53):
Like Andrew vaugh Andrew vaugh is striking out like twelve
percent of the time.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
No, he was a very good hitting prospect coming out.

Speaker 4 (01:20:07):
Yeah, not like that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
I mean, like every day of not being white sock
has to be like some sort of low low uh low.
You get a there's like a yeah departy, it's like
being slightly high all the time, just being like, man,
everything's so great, I can see colors. So I did
a little because I said, like, what what is going
on with Andrew Vaugh. I did a little dive on him,

(01:20:31):
and like, he's not pulling the ball more, he's not
lifting the ball more. He but when he put when
he puts it in the air, it is more often
the pull side. Right. But like the if you look
at his ground ball rate as a brewer, if you
look at his his flyball rate as a brewer, but
there's like really different than his prior those are very seas.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Where he's done.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
There are very broad knives, Like you want to look
at stuff like pull flyball rate and air e v specific.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
Well, right, and so my point is the pulled flyball rate,
that the nexus of those two things is up, and
that is relevant. It's not relevant enough to explain.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
This, no, I mean he's probably just having a hot monk.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
Yeah, right, it's just been it. Also, it feels like
he's it's like a month, it's like twenty it is.
I felt that's like than that somehow.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
Yeah, I will just so like his damage rate was
actually higher with the White Sox Spy.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
This is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
Ninetieth is up. A little bit. His pull fly ball
is actually lower by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
Oh I thought it was okay, maybe again, maybe it
could be.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Like, uh, robb Wars pulled fly ball is different than
Savant's pulled air. It's not a ground ball versus like
right right maybe right yeah, yeah, And like he's like
he's chasing a lot less.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
Yes, yeah, his cheese he's chase dropped eight percentage points.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
I mean he's also running like ninety one z contact
with hundred and six ninetieth exceit velocity. There wasn't well again,
I think I think it was like eighty eight, which
is about where he was. Like some of this is
just yeah, yeah, it's not a white talk anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Yeah, I do want to say, well, we're on what
to watch. There is honestly a number.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
Of really nice series you could pick.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
Uh, Yankees, Astros, solid series, I mean, a meaningful series.
Phillies Rangers another good series. There's a lot. There's a
lot going uh, a lot of options. Don't watch The
reds Pirates.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Please, okay, thank you, it's not ours, go ahead, it's time.
It's time to check. But like the Rockiests have been
weird for about a week now, Rockies Diamondbacks. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
Yeah, there's got like Austin Gomber versus Zach Gallon.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
Baby, Yeah, they like go watch the best hitter in
baseball warming burna Bell. Yeah, like check in, Like you
guys can't.

Speaker 4 (01:23:04):
Burner Bell.

Speaker 2 (01:23:07):
Go watch Ezekiel Tovar is healthy again. Briefly. Yeah, Like,
there's gonna be some I don't know what they're gonna
look like, but there's just gonna be some weird games here.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
Yeah, go see yan Kiel Fernandez do something.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Yeah, I don't know. I constantly forget he's in the majors,
but it makes sense that he's in the majors.

Speaker 4 (01:23:24):
He's there, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
Yeah, we're doing confidence. I do want to note while
we're here, we did get a game again, but we're
saving it. Don't don't worry. We didn't miss it. We're
just not doing it right now.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
Colin wrote in the email, we could just save it into.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
This, and I'm saving it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:41):
It seems it feels weird due to the user submit
to once in a row. Maybe someday all of them
will be user submitted, but for now, we gotta spread
them out, all right, So what we're doing Confidence Centrels
to remind you, I'm going to give you a list
of nine names in the chat. Eight of them have
reached a certain STATISTICO threshold, and one has not be
the person we're going to take turns. Do not pick

(01:24:01):
the person who has failed to meet the threshold. Ye
the first category. Eight of these nine players were caught
stealing more often in their career than they.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
Successfully stole bases.

Speaker 3 (01:24:12):
Okay, your players are oh Ernie Banks, Calarpkinjr. Harold Baines,
Gary Carter, Matt Williams, Vinnie Castilla, Bobby Bonilla, Chet Lemon,
and Kevin Mitchell.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
That's all like eighties and nineties guys that ran too much. Okay, so.

Speaker 3 (01:24:32):
I'm sorry one of these players, one of them is
a tie. But you're looking for the guy you're looking.
You're trying to avoid the guy who had more stolen
bases than Cott stealing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Jeff, you're going to go first, Benny Castilla. Benny Castilla
is correct, thirty three stolen forty three cot. That would
have been my first pick.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
YEP.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
I'm gonna be honest.

Speaker 4 (01:24:56):
I'm going to take my second.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Pick on a guy who I have I just have
no I know the name, but I have no conception
of his career. I don't know what he looks like.
I don't know anything chat Lemon, chet Lemon. I always
thought of chet Lemon because he played center. I want
to say, didn't he I don't know. I don't know
anything about him other than his name is chet Lemon.
I know like he is perpetually one of the the

(01:25:19):
Hall of very good players and chet but he did
play a lot of center.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
Tiger's cards.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
I feel like, yeah, fifty five reference war, was I
right or wrong? You were right? Yeah? He caught seventy
six times against fifty eight stolen bases.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
Jeff, You're turn Nobody ran in the sixties, So I
feel like Ernie Banks while he just got caught in
a lot of like hit and runs or something. So
I'm gonna say, Ernie Banks, you were correct.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
He stole fifty and got caught fifty three. Also his
legs fell apart. Yeah, Jeff Or Craig, m hm hmm.
I'm gonna say, uh, Bobby Bania, Bobby Beanie is correct
forty five basis fifty seven CODs.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
I felt like Bunny it was the trap, but I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
I kept thinking, I'm like, oh, that's a trap, and
then I gets tricky.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
Matt Williams.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
Matt Williams is the trap.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
I would like I thought Gary Carter was the trap.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
Yeah, okay, I went from cal Ripken it's the trap,
to Harold Bins, to Gary Carter to Kevin Mitchell.

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):
Yeah, Matt Williams stole fifty three bases and was caught
thirty five times. Yeah, one stole twelve in a season
when he was thirty two or thirty one.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
He stole twelve.

Speaker 4 (01:26:36):
Speaking of seasons like that, shout out to Josh Naylor.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
Yeah, Josh Naylor. Josh Naylor is one of the slowest
men in baseball, and he has a season he has
twenty one stolen basis this year.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
Yeah, if he steals one today in which the Mariners
are playing in one of the only four games playing,
that will be box score banner. But I can say
that because this podcast won't come out before that articles.
All right, next one, Craig, you're going first. Here is
your list. Eight of these players have an on base
percentage higher than theirs.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Selucking percentage. One does not Mark Maclamore, Xavier Edwards, Jim Gilliam,
Dave Maggoton with Magatam apparently wis Killio Veras, Luis Castillo,
the second Baseman, Bob Uker, and Tyler Wade. What a list,
What a list, What a great collection of players. One

(01:27:28):
of them? Is it not kill you? There is a
kill vi overus? Is there also? Maybe? Maybe I that's
not my ski, it's kill Sorry, it's Kilvers.

Speaker 4 (01:27:47):
I just want to make sure he was thinking of boy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
Okay, I'm gonna start with Walt Weiss is correct? Uh yeah,
three fifty one. I think he has the highest divide
to three fifty one OBP.

Speaker 4 (01:28:04):
I felt I felt pretty good about that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
Yeah, just zero.

Speaker 4 (01:28:07):
Honestly, I don't know it, OBP, but I know he
didn't slug.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
I'm gonna say, Jim Gilliam.

Speaker 1 (01:28:13):
Jim Gillium three ninety one OBP, three ninety six, slug.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
Oh my god, yeah, I should have wow really.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
Wait wait wait wait, wait wait wait, let me make
sure I didn't get those backwards. Hold on, I would
for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
Uh no, you're fine, three sixty I got I put
the wrong numbers in there, three sixty OBP, three fifty
five slug Gilliam.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
Is okay, that sounds yeah, that sounds right. Hmm all right,
I'm gonna go with Bob Uger three two ninety three,
OBP two eighty seven slug.

Speaker 4 (01:28:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
Well his whole thing was like he he sucked obviously,
but I also thought it. It's like I stood there
at the plate.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
So yeah, Jeff Luis Castillo three sixty eight to three
fifty one, Craig, Now we're now we're what do we Maclamore,
Edwards maganon.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
Varus Varus Boy, wait, I just waited on this podcast.
It's it's it's scary.

Speaker 4 (01:29:27):
I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say Varus.

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
Three seventy two, OBP three sixty two slugging Jeff for
the brand.

Speaker 2 (01:29:38):
Tyler Wade two.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
Ninety four, OBP two eighty four slug oh yeah wow wow.
So now it's Matt Maclamore, Edwards and Megan maganon mm hmm,
Dave maganon three ninety ob P three seventy seven slug
Jeff for the win. Maclamore or Edwards.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Christ I like, I remember Mark Maclamore, but like and
I know he fits the general shape of this player.
I'm gonna see Xavier Edwards.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
Three seventy one, opp three eighty five. Greg gear Up
two to nothing. I was not gonna Edwards.

Speaker 4 (01:30:23):
I decided.

Speaker 2 (01:30:24):
I thought, yeah, I know he had like a high
batting average juice like some of those like Doubles might
it doesn't walk a ton, but yeah, he just had.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
You know. It's also just not much of a career
in his year. Last year was actually good somehow. Yeah,
all right, next one, Jeff, you're starting eight of these pictures.

Speaker 2 (01:30:41):
What the category is looking at this? I have won
more games than they've lost, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
Jerry Kusman, Joe nkro Levon, Hernandez matt Kin, Javier Vasquez,
Kevin Millwood, James Shields, Kevin Apier and Randy Wolf. Jerry Kusman,
Jerry Kusman two twenty two and two nine Craig one
more games than they lost. Yep, mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:31:09):
Kevin A.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
Pier surprised he went to Kevin A Peer. I would
have I would have dodged him like the next one
sixty nine thirty seven. Yeah, the biggest discrepancy, and they
played for the Royals.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
I know a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Kevin Millwood, Kevin Millwoods correct one sixty nine to one
fifty two, the same Randy Wolf one thirty three to
one twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
Five I would not have gone, Randy, how are your basquets.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
One sixty five to one sixty even tighter? I would
I was worried about run support with him. All Right,
we're down to four Nicro, Hernandez, Caine and Shields.

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
Matt Cain.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
That Caine one O four and one eighteen.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
He was bad at the end of his career.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
He was.

Speaker 4 (01:32:03):
I just thought he was on like decent teams.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Like he also, I feel like he had a lot
of like his good seasons. He was like twelve and
nine the Giants, And that's true.

Speaker 4 (01:32:11):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
I just thought Levon Hernandez also quite bad at the
end of his career, and it was a long one.

Speaker 4 (01:32:16):
Nicro. You know, just tons of decisions in general. I
don't know, Petro.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
It is a landin all right, Craig, your first on
this one. The category is thirty or more career saves,
Christy Matthewson, Carlos Martinez, Jeff Nelson, Arthur Rhodes, Walter Johnson,
Eric Plunk, Kurt Schilling, Miguel Batista, Adam Antovido, thirty or
more careers that's it, yeah, okay, I of course some

(01:32:46):
of these have been applied retroactively, right, sure, I'm gonna
start with the tsunami Carlos Martinez.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
He was Martinez West closer.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
Yeah, thirty one saves.

Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
All right, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:33:03):
Gonna go with Baseball's poet, Laureate migal Batista forty one saves.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
Yeah, yeah, he would have been on my mine less
m boy m. This category is not for you, Greg,
I'm sorry, no, it is not.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
It truly is not.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
This is the equalizer.

Speaker 4 (01:33:22):
Arthur Rhodes.

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
Arthur Rhodes has thirty three saves.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
I was like trying to avoid him in but adam
out of you now forty six saves. He had one
years close for the Rockies. I think.

Speaker 1 (01:33:41):
I don't know. I don't know who Eric Plunk is, Eric,
I do know who.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
Eric Plk is.

Speaker 1 (01:33:46):
Saves he was.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
I would have my I would have guessed Eric Plunk
just on the theory that Eric Plunk is not. Patrick's
not putting Eric Plunk on this list of he has.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
It would be very fun. Oh god, all right. Two
Hall of famers Jeff Nelson and a non Hall of
Famer in Kurt Schilling. Christy Mathewson thirty saves exactly. Yeah
that counts.

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
And like a lot of just like he came in
for the last four innings of a game or something.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
Yeah, yeah, I had to fill in for somebody else
because they were they flu like symptoms, all right, Craig Nelson,
Walter Johnson, Just.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
Like, did Walter Johnson ever relieve?

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
Like that's what?

Speaker 4 (01:34:29):
Yeah, I guess maybe, but like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
Your usage was weird then, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:34:33):
Also they just pitched they like through the whole game.
So I don't know, it's I'm sure it's a Jeff
Nelson whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:34:43):
Jeff Nelson is correct thirty three. So it comes down
Jeff to you again, there's Walter Johnson versus Kurt Schilling.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
There's no way, there's no way Kurt Schilling has thirty saves.
That doesn't feel good, Walter Johnson.

Speaker 3 (01:34:56):
All right, Walter Johnson is correct. Yeah, Kurt Schilling has
twenty two. Say he did actually spend quite.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
A bit of time as a reliever before he got
his break. I just didn't think, right, yeah he wasn't,
but he got you. Yeah, he actually closed nine games.

Speaker 3 (01:35:13):
For the There was the the year after Mark no
near the end of his career in two thousand and five,
he came back as a reliever.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
Yeah, he should. I don't remember this.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
He saved nine games for the Red Sox in two
thousand and five.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
Have no memory of that? Yeah five, Yeah, I should
remember that.

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
But here it comes down to this, Jeff, your first,
this list is eight of these nine players have a
positive win percentage added for their career or sorry, I'm sorry,
eight of these players have a negative win percentage for
their career. You have to pick the one guy his
team win God Steve Sacks, Gary Gaiety again, Von Rodriguez,

(01:35:55):
Marcus Semion, Travis Frymanno Santiago, he Ink of THEA and
Justin Smoke one of these players.

Speaker 2 (01:36:03):
Literally got up like there's no way to know because
it's such a context dependent stat So I am just
going to pick random names, and I'm going to start
with justin Smoke because that stood out to me. You're correct, Yeah, great, Okay,
So we're trying to find trying to get the negative, ye.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
Find the negas.

Speaker 5 (01:36:22):
Uh wow, okay, mmmm mm hmm. You picked justin Smoke. Okay, yeah,
that was that would That's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
Travis Fryman, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
My second guest. Let's Travis. So I'm just going on
vibes here. Uh, he wasn't a particularly good hitter for
large parts of his career, and I feel like he
hit fairly high in lineup. So I'm as say, Ivan.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
Rodriguez negative five point three.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
Yeah, I feel like a lot of grounded into double
plays and big spots there.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
Yeah, let's go with I feel like this is gonna
bite because he's the name I've forgotten. I feel like
in multiple uh, like a trendy grids or something or whatever.
But Benito Santiago negative fifteen point two, one of the worst,
one of the lowest of all time.

Speaker 4 (01:37:24):
Okay, good did.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
Not bite me.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
Like Phini Castilla was, like facially a good hitter. Is
the problem. I kind of want to avoid him for
some reason in my mind, Like Gary Guyetti was a
good clutch hitter, but I was also like seven, so
I don't know why, Like that's based on that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
RB.

Speaker 2 (01:37:44):
Yes, he's like, yeah, I'm gonna say Pete and Caviliaga.

Speaker 3 (01:37:48):
To one point six, all the better ones. But it's enough,
all right, Craig, I guys have taken a lot of
these to wire. I obviously didn't make this game trappy.

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
I mean, I'm literally just picking random names at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:38:00):
Steve Sacks. Steve sax is wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
The one I was thinking about it.

Speaker 4 (01:38:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
I don't know. He had his one like he the
thing about Saxes that he had that year one collapsed,
but he had built enough positive during the eighties. What
was Gary Guy?

Speaker 3 (01:38:17):
For my own Gary Guy had a negative three point
five semi and negative three point eight.

Speaker 1 (01:38:24):
That's I kind of wanted to go semion and then
I thought, like again, it's a lot of it back.

Speaker 4 (01:38:32):
He's also been good for.

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
A lot of yeah chans, a lot of chances to
have positive wp A that he has not fulfilled. Anyway.
Congratulations Jeff for You're Furious comeback.

Speaker 4 (01:38:43):
Thank you Patrick for the game.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
Thank you to our listeners for joining us on another
episode of five and Dive brought to you by the
Baseball Perspectives podcast Network. You can get in touch with
the show at five and Dive at Baseball Perspectives dot com.
We are wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for
Baseball Perspectives Podcast Network and we'll be in that feed.
Uh think we've had a couple Patreon sign ups recently.
Thank you to people for signing up for that. Appreciate

(01:39:05):
it and uh, we'll see you next week. H

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