Five and Dive, Episode 482: On the Shores of Wisconsin

In Episode 482, Patrick, Jeffrey, and Craig chat about  Taskmaster and then discuss five mostly baseball topics. 

1. Seattle Slew: The Mariners continue to avoid Fraud Watch. In fact they might be the anti-frauds
2. Milwaukee's Best: Meanwhile in Wisconsin, the best team in baseball emerges?
3. Oh baby baby, it's a wild card: We will get that Guardians/Blue Jays playoff seriers, just you wait.  
4. Around the Horn: A major-league milestone, the Rockies return to being the Rockies, and a lot of pitcher news.  
5. A new, fun game. So you know none of us were involved in making it.

Five and Dive is listener-supported, you can join our Patreon at patreon.com/fiveanddive. If you want to get in contact with the show, the e-mail address is [e-mail].   
                                        
Our theme tune is by Jawn Stockton. You can listen to him on Spotify and Apple Music  

Spotify: http://bit.ly/JawnStockton_Spotify
Apple Music: http://bit.ly/JawnStockton_AM

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to episode four eighty two of five and Dive.
It is Monday, August eleventh. I'm your host, Craig Goldstein,
joined as usual by Patrick Dubuke and Jeffrey pattern Astro.
I'll ask you guys about banter, but i'll share a
little of my own first, which is I just completed
season two of Taskmaster New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
What Jeffery's been a lot of task Master?

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm like twenty years behind. This is
how it works. That have you guys seen that? Did
you do the international? Well, they're all international, but the
non originals we are.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
We are still on episode seven of the most the
Mansuka season. Okay, a few more to go and then
we'll hop over to New Zealand. Okay, and you, Jeffrey,
you didn't.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
You didn't You're not as we as at all.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Okay, Well, I don't remember, Jeffy. You gotta realize that
based on the games, I remember nothing. Well i'll warn
you then, Patrick. Season season one is good but a
little bit tough. It is twenty twenty in New Zealand
when it started, so it's a little I don't know

(01:22):
if the audience knew what was going on either it
was a little weird. The host is different, obviously, the
hosts are different. Season two is just a straight up
all time task Master season that was one of the
best television experiences I've had, so you have had to
look forward to. I just wanted to follow up with people.

(01:42):
I got a lot of a lot of interaction on
task Master on that, so I wanted to update people.
Patrick has his movies, I just have task Masters.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Last night, my kid got to pick the show we
watched last night, So we've been watching Nailed It, which
is kind of the anti Taskmaster though, but it has
but it also has Manzucas it at.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
Least the season he watched nick Offerman one. No, it's
it's like it's a baking show.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, it's like a baking show. I can't.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I can't one of the hosts.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I thought it was like the nick Offerman like craft show,
which also call Nailed It.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
I suppose, yeah, could be.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, Nicole Buyer, she she's been on uh, how to
disc and stuff like that. I don't know if anyone else.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I don't know if it's because of this, like the
algorithm just knows on Instagram, but I've been getting like
videos of Benzukas's podcast appearances just in my Instagram feet
because like every third thing, the algorithm just something, whether
you wanted or not.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, I mean, well, I don't know. I don't have Instagram,
but uh, he's a goddamn Delight's fine if you like
screaming anyway.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, on the podcast, he just talks normally. Yeah, that's
he just talks like a person.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, yeah, all right, anyone else got anything? Should we
get into the show?

Speaker 3 (03:01):
No, I've you know, I've driven my son to a
summer summer camp that was five miles away and also,
in a very real sense, thirty miles away. I've eaten
one dinner roll for breakfast. I am ready to go.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay, well, dinner for breakfast as opposed to breakfast for dinner. Fascinating.
All right, our first segment Seattle slew. We've got no
sub topics here on that. Behind the scenes, we're just
getting into the Seattle goddamn Mariners. Patrick, No, watch them.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
I can't watch them.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
He knows what's going on.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
I watched them on I watched them on Thursday.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'm Patrick, you know what's going on.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, basically, Josh Naylor is stealing bases. Yeah, that seems
like I feel like that story has covered up every
other story about the Sale Mariners. Like he has.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Stolen was it twelve or twelve or something?

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, he has.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Stolen eleven basis eleven.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
He is stolen eleven bases in fifteen games as a
Sale Mariner. He's eleven for eleven after stealing eleven in
ninety three games in Arizona and also having stolen I
think twenty five his entire career up to that point.
He is the slow one of the slowest players in baseball.
What if Albert Poolhols did just steal twenty basses a

(04:17):
year and also people just still pretended like he never tried. Yeah,
it's mystifying. Is the is the Josh Winker story of
this year?

Speaker 2 (04:26):
I mean it takes time for this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Like Jesse Jesse w feel like that you Combie, John
Peterson and Jesse Winker.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, that was good. That was very good.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Like the Mets have stolen something like thirty three consecutive bases.
They don't run a time, but they'll just take walking
leads and go.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Anything else happening with the Mets, Jeffrey.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Continuing to happen.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I know. I'll just talk about an argument for for
the stolen base as less consequential than people want it
to be.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
It's the bets of stolen thirty three in scoring position.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, I gotta stand first. It's better, it's safer that way.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
It is double players a lot that way, So you
got halfway and stop. They just home run. That's all
they did.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
What was the Sam article skunk in the outfield? You
just got to run into the outfield and that's it.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Anyway. The Mariners like the Mariners. I said, I don't
know what's going on with the Mariners. The Mariners do this.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, I mean they're still not even in first place.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
I just want to point out its later, Like they
vacillate between four games over five hundred and twelve games
over five hundred every year, and they're at the high
end of it now.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah, later than usual. I feel like, I feel like
we don't usually have this push this late in the season,
but you were getting second half Julio, which is just
now apparently just a real thing.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes, someone needs to mess with his calendars.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
One is random music coincidence. Three is a trend or whatever.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, something like that his first half line is in
his career two sixty three nineteen four eighteen in the
first half two ninety six three forty eight five fifty two,
so one hundred and sixty three.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
It's like a weird like it's like a vision of
like seasonal effective disorder. I guess I like this, right, Yeah,
the you know cold, He's just ready to go.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Cole Young is good now, Yeah, yeah, I know he's been.
He's been hitting well. Let's see over the last twenty
eight days. Let's see the last twenty eight days. Cole
Young has been hitting well. Okay, the last fourteen days. Yeah,
two eighty four fifty five for eighty sure, which will work.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Say he's got his overall a PS up to seven hundred, yet.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
He's league average.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah, okay, fair enough.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
That's about where I would have pegged Cole Young.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Which itself is a huge win for the Seattle Ammers,
who have not had a league average second basement.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, we should also point out, in addition to the
stolen bases, Josh Naller is hitting to eighty eight three
sixty two five seventy seventies.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
We're mostly here talking about the stolen yeah, help you
win baseball games.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, it's so. Seattle has won seven in a row.
Just for people who haven't been tracking Seattle, Uh, they
are what nine and one in their last ten, So
obviously it's been going very well. They've closed gap ground
on the on the Astros are a half game back.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeahers have been scuffling two or three from the Yankees,
but have generally been scuffling a little bit.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
So obviously the nailer has been very good, are you
Heney Asparez not so much? Yeah, the only the only
battery strikeouts and two walks in ten games.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, the only batter in the lineup who has not
been like significantly above average right now?

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah. The Uh, well, I was gonna say Jorge Polanco's
picked it up recently. Uh, Dominic Canzone has kept it up.
I would say, like he just has. He's been like
around a one twenty one thirty oh ps plus somehow,
I don't I'm not saying I understand that or that
I think it'll continue.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
But well, the to eighty average, that certainly, Yeah, he's
not a too eighty hitter, Like he's not a two
eighty hitter. When we usually use the phrase to eighty
hitter back when two eighty is normal, and like.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
They have good pitching. I mean the pitching is always
has basically always.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Been there this year than I suppose.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yes, but they've had the lineup this year.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
I mean, like again it Brian Woo has been like
very funny that we hent the entire.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, I was not a Brian Wou believer.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
I was talking about how much time he sends in
an MRI machine. He's been like one of the most
durable starters this year.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yes, yep, I mean he pitching projections and Castillo well,
and it's also like he's got one fewer start than
Castillo and has thrown eight more innings, so he's eating.
Not only is he we also I think always said
like oh he'll come out and throw five and a third,
but he's going like six plus.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Well he's been efficient, which has helped.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah. Uh yeah, they've they've had guys miss obviously, Logan
Gilbert and George Kirby have missed time. We've seen a
lot of Logan Evans and and guys like that. But
generally speaking, like if they're upright, this is a strong
pitching group and finally have like a lineup that's producing.

(09:18):
I don't know how much of this lineup? Are you
still buying it?

Speaker 4 (09:21):
I mean, I think.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Point or do you buy at this point going forward?

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah? I mean I think they've had a good couple
of weeks. Right, they're very capable of having you know,
they're very capable of going like four and six in
their next ten. Yeah, you know, I guess, But there
are any great baseball teams?

Speaker 1 (09:39):
So well yeah, Well that's where you're going to get
into our next subject. Essentially, I don't do we have
more to say about Seattle or do you want to
combine these a little bit?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Let's let's play fast and Patrick, it.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Seems like you are you sure we can talk about
them earlier? So our second segment this is going to
be a little bit of both. Is Milwaukee's best and
the question here is at what point do we say
this is the best team in baseball slash World Series Favorite?
And like, I just think my answer, I'm gonna go
back to when we had the best team discussion a

(10:08):
while back, is like, I'm not gonna get there on Milwaukee.
I don't. I don't think they're gonna be you know,
I look, I saw and I respect Matt true Blood
over the weekend saying like this is the best team
I've ever seen, and like this is a team on
a really good run. Yeah, you know, I watched a
Dodgers team win fifty two out of sixty games at
one point. It's not this is not the best team

(10:31):
I've ever seen. The Milwaukee Brewers, they're they're going really
great and they're a good team.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
They don't swing and mess is the thing. That's like
what I really took away from the Met series, like
even like they're not like Joey RTIs is like making.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
He made adjustment. He was bad early and he's gotten
he's been better, Like.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
I don't think is good. But sure it's been a
long standing belief of mine. But but I like and.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Like no, but but you go back for a month
now he's had a seven hundred ops, which is fine.
Again fine.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
The I mean they can pitch obviously, like they have
pictures and the same way like the Mariners do, right
if they just have pictures.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, but you know, look at look at yesterday's game.
I flipped it on and like the Mets got to win. Priester,
like these guys aren't all shut at. I think I
think this team's great advantages obviously, Like look like Trevor
McGill has been freaking incredible as as a reliever. It's contact,
it is speed, and it is defense.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right, they're almost enough power and less so, but it's it's.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Not it is enough path and that and that. Well,
that's been the key to their run, right, Like they
weren't this good when Wilson Wilson Andres is hitting home runs. Yeah, uh,
you know, Andrew Vaughn has stepped in the Ree Hoskins
role and provided power. H Isaac Collins is powering up recently,
but like I don't I don't really expect Collins to continue.

(12:04):
I'm a little I I don't know what to do
with terrang I've never been a believer. I do understand,
like I know, Uh, Kurt Hogg at The Journal Centinel
had an article recently about like his his BP stuff
that he goes into the second. Look, we we saw
Haze Sanchez, right, Like I kind of feel how I
do about Sanchez do.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
A really good VP show to the poll side.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
This is a very deep team. They are getting the
good outcomes of the guys like like South Ryla has
a one to eleven instead of like a OPS plus
instead of one hundred, Right, Like you're getting the good
versions of some of these guys.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Version version of the twenty twenty one Giants.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Like I would not bet on this happening again next year,
but sometimes you cluster your ninetieth percent outcomes, And yeah,
these are very good at not having holes beyond.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
And I want to be clear, like, if you're a
Milwaukee fan listening to this, this isn't like denigration, like
this is there is results.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Of Milwaukee already don't like us, so I know, but but.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
But this is the result of of you know, really
good front office work, really good player development. Uh, it's it.
This is what you I mean. In general, most teams
when they're having a great season are in as good
as that season. So like that's that's not I don't
mean that to be a negative, although I'm sure it

(13:25):
comes off that way. Yeah, I mean, I mean, like, look,
Blake Perkins has an eight hundred OPS. They use Blake
Perkins very smartly. He's a player with very specific good uses.
I don't think he's an eight hundred OPS guy. That's
just not his back generally.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Especially like wild variation season this season, because you're not
talking about particularly large samples and you're talking about you
know how.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
But they feel a little bit and I don't mean
this in a small market way, like the Oklahoma City
Thunder who obviously just won the the and the A Championship.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Pacers.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Sure so either right there in the you're in the
finals of the NBA. Congratulations to the Brewers. But it's
the speed and defense bit of it. And it's like,
if the offense shows up, that's great, but the yeah,
obviously there's a lot of differences to basketball and and whatever,
But likey Gilders, Alexander can give you the offense you

(14:20):
need and you can just give him the ball you
you have to, you know, all of a sudden, a
lot more tribute, right right, it's not just and Jalen
Williams or whatever.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Three singles in the playoffs. Are you going to only
to run as much when you know teams are leveraging
those well.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
And I and I will say also like the right,
I I do wonder like when teams put more of
a focus on their on their defense, if you're gonna
be able to take that extra base as often, you
know what I mean? Uh? And and when I you know,
I saw the sixth Series, the six games in in
against LA that they swept, and I I watch Milwaukee

(15:03):
a fair amount because I enjoy them. They're always taking
the extra base. And and again, teams are going to
optimize for defense. They get a little tighter in the playoffs.
They're usually better teams. But like I do wonder if
they're going to have those opportunities available as often because
teams are going to be more focused on preventing those things.

(15:27):
And I want to be clear, like they are elite
at It's not just the stolen bases, right, it is.
It is first to third, it is first to home
on doubles, it's all these others. They're so so good
at that.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
We're also going into a smaller sample where if you
get caught going first a third like the actual the
ramifications are. But my question is like, would you rather
have the Mariners offense or the Brewers offense going into
a playoff scenario, because the Mariner is pretty much just
say home runs.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Now, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Think there's they're broadly similar pitching stabs and pens where
they don't have like I guess George Kirby has been
an ace at times. Right, you could argue that, you know,
Freddy Peralta has pitched like an ace at times. We're
probably talking about like number two starters, right, they don't
really have They don't have Zach Wheel or they don't
have Trek Scugle, they don't have twenty twenty five and
eight a of all d You know, they don't have

(16:25):
Jerrit Crochet, So what does that like? I think they'll
have you know, more than.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
No, they just have twenty twenty five Brandon Woodruff.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
But I mean they'll have more than a puncher's chance,
like with every at every pitching matchup. But it's like,
would you have the team that has some runs or
the team that plays like the Brewers, Like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I don't know. I think I'd normally take the Mariners.
But if you're asking me to choose between these two
specific offenses, you don't trust the Mariners.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, that's fair. I don't you know the Mariners.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
It's just that's so much of the Aroners offense is
concentrated in cal Rally and I know it's not only him,
but if we're talking about a power hitting team that
relies on home runs, Like so much of that power
is is in one player for fort.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Well, but it was early in the year. I don't
think it certainly isn't right now. No, if you have
second half Julio, you know, just legitimately he's having one
of his best seasons.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Like, yes, yes, hasn't been good, but it'll hit home
runs and Nailor can hit. So the guys they brought
in are another guy. Yeah, it was a good walk
to a lot of those guys will get on base.
You know it's going to be a little bit of
a weaver baseball.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
But I still worry about them's depth. You know, Mitch
Gervor is still here. You know, he's He's not terrible,
He's just not good. I mean, you got Luke Raley,
it's one of your backups.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Like I also think, like you can. I haven't thug
into all of these guys and like all their splits,
but like you can, you can pitch to I know
Jorg Polanco has has had significant splits and he's I
think he's yeah, but he still has had some splits.
You can pitch a lefty to to Josh Naylor, and

(18:12):
I know the Brewers also do a lot of platooning.
But like they have the balance they have the flip
side of that, they're they're just deep. I mean they're
they're an incredibly and I say this in a complimentary right,
like an incredibly annoying team to be playing against the Brewers.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
I mean, you you named all the other things about
the Brewers. The other thing the Brewers are this year
is there clutch. They're the most clutch team in baseball.
And credit to them, right, but credit to them that
more than most teams. I feel like you buy it.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
The Brewers like contact, right, yeah, exactly. Some of that
is contacts they do. They do manage to.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Sell it through that contact. Through that that you know,
the way they play like you feel like you're.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
More likely to get suckered in still and again if
you can, if you can score second, if you can
score second to home on a on a flare single
every almost every time, like you're gonna build some of
those clutch stats that like another team went station to
station and then failed, right like it, so that that
is you know, there is a luck is the resident

(19:20):
of design or whatever it is, right.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
And I think the other problem is like they're gonna
to talk about batting average on Baseball Twitter in the
last couple of weeks and things like that, but like.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
I've missed that.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, I wouldn't say missed it.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
The Brewers are, like, I think have the highest batting average,
it's fifty five. Like, it's not like if that goes
down in the playoffs all of a sudden, Like where
the runs coming from if you don't hit for power?

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, yeah, And again, like it's been a lot of
and I'm not trying to take away, but like Isaac
Collins walked off the Mets yesterday, right, I don't know
that Isaac. Look, he hit home run against the Dodgers.
Caleb Durban hit a difference making home run against the Dodgers.
I'm not saying they can't. Anything can happen, but I'm
I'm I'm skeptical that Caleb Durban, in his three sixty

(20:05):
three slug is gonna hit all. You know, if he
hits a home run in the playoffs, it's gonna be meaningful, right,
probably in all in all, probably more or less, right,
But I'm just saying, like I'm not expecting that.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
I guess, I mean, I guess the advantage the Brewers
have in regards to this is that you know, there's
no great there's no kryptonite there for them. There's no
like lurking giant in the NL right now. I mean,
maybe the Dodgers get healthy enough on their pitching side at.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Least they yeah, I mean maybe, And stay right, it's honestly,
the lineup spin as much of a problem as the
pitching has been. Fine. Reason why it is the lineup problem.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I'm not like, if you give me a Brewers Dodgers five,
I don't know if they play in the fight game,
but five or seven game series, I'm picking the Dodgers.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
But all these are well, I guess this goes this
is to go back to the point, and this is
I was reading Joshian's third third previews in his newsletter,
and he talked about like he tries to go back
to first principles and and all this kind of stuff,
and he was talking about the Astros and how he
didn't really believe they were that good heading into the season.

(21:15):
And but I come back here, I'm while I'm saying
what he.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Said, it's not you know, I get it, they haven't
actually been that good.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Right, well, right, And I think he's trying to say, like,
I guess I'm fading them for the last third season.
And and I'm not saying this to denigrate Milwaukee. I
actually think I think I do need to change my
priors on Milwaukee, but I don't think it changes my
priors on who the best team is. And and again
I'm biased here, so whatever, but I still think I'm
going to pick I'm going to pick the Dodgers as

(21:45):
the best team in baseball. They're not playing like it.
Milwaukee is playing like it right, Like there's no.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
There's under five hundred for the first.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Well and and again like this is this is a
this is a tremendous run, and it is a long season.
And I just this all this stuff. And it's true
with home runs too, right, we see it in you know,
the Dodgers have been very home run heavy offense as well,
and it's like it works until it doesn't. So the
question is, can you do you have multiple ways to win?

(22:19):
And look, the answer is with Milwaukee, they've had some
timely home runs, So the answer has been yes lately.
I don't know. I don't see that holding up over
the long term. Can they do it in the playoffs.
Absolutely no, it doesn't. But I'm but you're asking about, like,

(22:41):
what when do we say this is the best team
in baseball? And I guess the answer is, look, we
can see it, we can say it right now. I
have no issue with that. There there are several games
clear of every thing in terms of World Series favorites.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
I'm not what does that even mean?

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I guess, well, what does that mean? Short? But I
guess I'm saying, like, do I think if I And yes,
I know people can mock me for this if they want,
but like, I know, they won six in a row
off the Dodgers. If you put them in a series
with the Dodgers, like you said, I'm gonna pick the
Dodgers and they're better team. Doesn't mean them win, right,
It doesn't mean Milwaukee's bad. But I think I think

(23:21):
the Dodgers, and I think you said this at the
time we talked about it, like the Dodgers have more
ceiling than anyone else in baseball. But I also think
their midpoint is generally higher. They've they've fallen short of
that a lot this year. And and it's Matt speaking
of Matt. By the way, he wrote a game day
on the Blue Jays and Dodgers on the site today,

(23:43):
and and the Dodgers have won the first two games
in this series. They had a lot of chances to
win yesterday's game and they blew it. And they've had
a lot of those games this which is how you
fall short. They did it against Saint Louis, they did
it against Milwaukee. They also got their ass beat by
Milwaukee several times, to be clear. But yeah, you know,
and look, I think this is credit to there's a

(24:04):
lot of credit to be given to Milwaukee, to Pat
Murphy and and to not have those instances where you
fall short so much. But I think I don't know,
you said, this is a lot of ninetieth percentile seasons,
Jeff for Milwaukee. How I mean, what do you think

(24:28):
Milwaukee's sixtieth is? Like? What is the Dodgers fiftieth? Like
what you know? What I mean? Like that's I don't
know how to Maybe that's the wrong way to look
at it, but that's kind of where I'm looking at it.
And so I think the Dodgers, I maybe even the Mets,
I don't know, Phillies.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, I mean the thing with the Dodgers I think
they you get a little bit of the you got
to come and take the belt from them. I feel like,
I'm look, they want six gains in the regular season.
I don't much that really counts. The Dodgers don't care
about the regular season. They have that.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
I mean, look Milwaukee convincingly.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
No, it's sure, but they have that largest now because
they've been great for over a decade and one two
World Series. Like, I think it's not that the Dodgers
don't lose in the playoffs, right, They certainly do sometimes
in though divisional round, you know they might end up
in a wild card round. This year, I think they

(25:27):
probably pip the Phillies by the end of it, but
who knows. It's close, and you know that one seed
is probably not going to be available to them now.
But yeah, I think until they do it again, and
it's sort of the idea of a World Series favorite
is more of a framing discussion for like, how you

(25:47):
think these teams will play in the playoffs, which, again,
we'll get there when we get there. We also just
don't know what these teams are going to look like
by then they get to the playoffs. It's still six
seven weeks away, and the Dodgers especially, and I think
the like the Brewers can't have injuries obviously, cho is heard,
and the Dodgers tend to a I don't say value,

(26:08):
but acquire high end players with more injury risk than
you know, Freddy Parole. Yeah, who's actually are they going
to have Snell and Glass now for one and two?

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Basically I don't know. And look they didn't last.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Year, right and right, A lot of like you know,
it's a lot of like Brent Honeywell and.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Ben Ben Casparius before he was even this good, which
is not even yeah, Bill a ton of Anthony Banda
and look their bullpen is still a mess.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
I thought it was very funny when Misereski went down
for the Brewers, and so they called up Logan He
Logan Henderson who got hurt, and then they called it
Tobias Myers. And when Tobias Myers h gets hurt, they
can just call up they can call it Jason Patter.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Of Chad Patrick still Dan Patrick boy.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
First names are really killing me. But yeah, they just
get they get more.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
No, he's still hurt, still hurt, Yeah, yeah, I mean
they are, But I do I do kind of think
of Oklahoma City a lot because they are smothered, right,
like those those balls that you think are either a
single or a double are in gloves, and like they
hit a single and it's a double. Because they've been.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Up in a couple of these games by like one,
Like the Mets have a good ball.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
The Mets were up five yesterday, I.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Mean Manyah gave three of those back pretty quickly before
you look in the sixth and seventh inning. And the
Mets have been up in a couple of these games,
and they have a good bullpen, and you look, it's
like you just know they're not going to get this
twelve outs, so giving up a run or two, like
you just it just feels like when is when is
the CounterPunch coming?

Speaker 3 (27:42):
Now?

Speaker 2 (27:42):
The Mets can't couldn't score off d L. Hall for
six innings, yes.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
And again not to not to make this about our
own teams instead of Milwaukee or or I guess Patrickson,
but like there was a lot of time spent in
the first half. The Dodgers into June were like, by
far the best tending team with runners in scoring possession. Now,
I know every fan of every team thinks their team,
except maybe Milwaukee. At this point I thinks their team
stinks with runners in scoring. Well sure, but again, like

(28:11):
the you know, every team is like, oh, you had
the opportunity and you left it on the table.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Like I'll say for Mets fans have. Mets have obviously
been bad with runners and scoring positions this year, but
there is this sort of feeling like in the Brewers series,
like every time it was like first and second two
outs or first and third two outs, they would get
a single they just couldn't get at the ending, like
there was a trump and I could not put away.
I don't remember who it was. I might have literally
been Joey ortiz Uh yesterday with the bases loaded in

(28:36):
two outs. But like the Mets, they're one win in
the last twelve games or whatever. Against the Giants, they
got a lot of those seeing eye singles with runners
and scores because that's how you score.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
It changes everything, right, I mean like.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Like there's like a there's like a it's like a
confirmations like you don't like you get you remember the
double play with first and third one out more than
the single with first and third one I mean.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
This is literally yeah, well I mean, like I've I've
written about this in the context of of no hitters,
like when they're going on and like do you remember,
like what will you remember out of how no hitters
are broken up? I mean it's literally like Tonoman and
t Firsky having like there are heuristics, right, you do
remember stuff more than positive stuff, or go back to rounders, right,

(29:24):
it's you nobody remembers how they built their bank roll,
but they all remember how you lost it kind of thing.
And that's one hundred percent true. But I guess my
point is, like everyone almost twenty nine teams generally feel
like my team doesn't come through with runners in scoring
position or they leave all these guys on the table.

(29:45):
And it's true because every team leaves a lot of
guys on the table over the course of a season.
But my point is that Dodgers were running. They were
first in batting average, runners in scoring position for a
lot of the season. They're very much not that right now,
right like, and it feels that way, but it always
feels that way to a lot of teams. So I
but you know, you don't know, and and to your

(30:06):
what you keep going back to Jeff in the playoffs
is like everyone tightens up. You're getting everyone's hardest, best pitches.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Shortening their rosters too, So you're getting those opportunities in
the sixth inning against a gas starter or the seventh
best reliever in a bullpen.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Right now. Late in the series, you might get a
gas bullpen, but you know you got to get there,
So who knows. Again, I think for me, all of
this to say is like Milwaukee is one of the
best teams in baseball and we'll see, Yeah, that's how
it goes. Like and I think i'd say that about
any team at this point. I don't feel good about any.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Like a dominant team, Like, how much does that really
matter in the playoffs?

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Right?

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, even if you're clearly the best team in baseball
in the World Series favorite, it's a lot of games
to win to get there against teams that are almost
as good as you.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, Patrick, anything you want to say.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
I just think this would be a fun, fascinating test
case for DRC and Deary as you know, Craig, because
you tried to write the Brewer's Deadline Dreaming series.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
They're between tenth and sixteenth and every single category.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
It's down like it's sound like eighteenth and nineteenth. Yeah,
like they're they're like nineteenth and starting pitching, there's like
nineteenth and hitting, and I well they lost, Yeah they
lost as rasky and then they're like sixth in bullpen.
So yeah, like you we ask you know, we we
we hemmed and hot over Mariners versus Brewers. Our own
stats do not. They think it's very clear, like the

(31:31):
Mariners are top ten both offensively and defensively. The Dodgers,
of course are top ten both. Like it just does
not see them in the same tier, and uh, you
just kind of like and all.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
That said, Pakoda has finally put Milwaukee ahead of Chicago
in the projectives.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah, yeah, we'll see. Uh. But then that's also the
reason why, like Pakoda is projecting the Mariners to win
the division by like two and a half games, even
though they're in second place, because they think they kind
of think in the same place.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, and there are reasons to doubt Houston. I mean
like that, yeah, I mean yeah, uh, speaking of which,
I suppose we can go into our third subjects. Oh baby, baby,
it's a wild card. I know that one.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Jeff, don't worry before Yeah, well, like last year about
this time, probably.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
We're talking to al wild card. We're talking well, I
guess we're not talking Houston, but we could be.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
We could be.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, Mariners half came back Boston. He's in the second
wild card spot, a game back of the Mariners. The
Yankees are sitting in that third wild card spot, just barely.
The Cleveland Guardians. We're talking about the Guardians last pot,
but eaten to eate and too in the last uh

(32:54):
in their last ten half came back Texas two and
a half back of the Yankees. Yes, we can go
to Kansas City four back, but they're two games under
five hundred, so we don't have to. Probably go ahead, Patrick.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
You were the Royals are gonna be five and five
of the last ten for the rest of the season, every.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Single day, five and five with an l one on
the streak pretty much.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Uh No, Just the Astros are like in they leave
the division and I think they're you know how far
up on the third wildcard right now? Let's see b Yeah,
four games up on the third wild card.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
So yeah, we were only a couple weeks removed.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
And they're also five and record.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
This is how it's been and It's.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Kind of funny because they they had a decent deadline, right,
Like I'm not saying I don't know what Carlos.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Carlos cre has done quite well, Yeah that worked out,
but like, you.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Know, yeah, I don't know. He Sanchez made made a
lot of sense for them.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
He's hitting like Caesus Sanchez.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, which is again that's that's good for them. Yeah,
Carlos four h five.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah. There's been a lot of like talk about coaching
and how the Astros and in three days unlocked alives
potentially again.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
I wonder how that could be.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah, you know, but yeah, this team like and it's
hard to blame the Astros for this, like they just
Christian Walker's just that he has gotten his OPS plus
up to ninety three. Yeah, so good job for him.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
But I mean that means he's been quite good in
the last Yes.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
He's been quite good in the last couple months. But
like with Alvas out, with Pariades out, like this just
it does not feel we don't I'm not getting a
lot of team team of destin anybody.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Walker's last last twenty eight days and eight seventy one ops.
His last fourteen is a nine O two, he's.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Been well and Alexander Whitley, you know, for this for
PSP has been talking about this last her last couple
of articles. The astros rotation is Franbervalde is Hunter Brown
and then Dice rolls just every single day.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, it's just a grab bag. You're walking out like
the right for them.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
But they traded like Ryan Gusto, Yeah, taking starts.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Like yep, yeah, no, Jason Alexander with a two point
five six c r A yeah in five starts like that,
Colton Gordon.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
It's all just guys.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Walter two first names, Yeah, MLB, the show, franchise mode
draft or whatever.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, yeah, uh.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
And like uh, you know, paying is back now, which
is certainly help. Yeah, they still haven't really solved second base.
Cam Smith is cooled off, You're there's still a lot
of Taylor Trammel, who it's still the average hitter. By
the way, it is not twenty nine strikeouts. Twenty nine
strikeouts in ninety eight play appearance isn't great.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
But I'm gonna keep you saying Cooper. I'm gonna say
Cooper Hummel and tell still oh yeah, okay, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
I mean there's a lot of like outside of second base.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
He's not played in more than a week, but he's
still on the team.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
There's a lot of just like general confidence which has
completely gotten them by, right, Like Mauricio Dubon is just
there and filling in, and it's like it's competent, right,
Like it's.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Like ninety they're back outside of like the second base right.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Hole, That's what I'm saying, Like there's there's not.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Like Dubon camp Smith are all around like ninety os.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Plus ye that's but that's what I'm saying is that
it's not black holes, right And like you you could
have foreseen some real black holes on this team heading
into the season. And I think that's kind of a
little bit with what Sheehan was saying. And look like
has been better. He was worse. Yeah, I mean, look,
he's never gonna have it. He's never gonna have a

(36:51):
three hundred VP apparently, but he's slugging a little bit better.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Can we talk about brand and Walter, who I did
not know was on this team. Seeing in the minors
Red Sox supper Miners are fifty two strikeouts in four
walks and fifty three innings.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, that's wild.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
It is.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
He was always a control guy, but like I did
not think he would strike out that many guys in
the majors, and like they're using him as like the
five and dive, although he's averaging almost six innings to start,
so fair enough six and dive, I guess. And this
is a good counterpoint to the or compliment I guess
to the Brewers discussion if you play, like if you're
if they wouldn't play before the World Series, but like

(37:28):
in a playoff series, you're gonna see Cranbour, Eldez and
Hunter Brown twice each and most of these playoff inning
Like when they leave, it's going to be hater of
Rayu and Oker.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I was just going to talk
about this bullpen is Is. I mean King has been good,
think SUSA has been good.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, Like I don't know if you count on guys
like SUSA and Sean Dubin in the playoffs per se,
but they've been good in the regular season for them obviously.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
But yeah, I don't I think didn't have SUSA last playoffs,
but he was good for them. I think they added
him after the the uadline or whatever or something like that.
I don't know he wasn't available to them. I remember
in the plass, but I feel like I looked at
him and look, he's been hell.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
This cuts both ways to like Bennett Jus's better hitters
in the playoffs than he sees generally.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
In the Oh, he didn't pitch twenty twenty four, so
maybe I'm thinking of a different year. I don't know,
but he uh, yeah, they've gotten Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Know, they got to like Hater a Brady like a
Hatter and a Braider might just be pitching the last
night Out's a lot of these games if they need.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, it's like the part of.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
It too well. And the other part, like you said,
is is look fromber has his blow up starts, including
in the playoffs. You you there are games you get.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
To Frombert like fromber is again like in that kind
of like George Kirby number two starter rain more than
an ace.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Right, but if you if if you get there's a
real possibility you get seven innings of Frombervalda and Hunter
Brown and then the next this is a loaded bullpen
that they can shorten the next game, right, and now
you're looking at three games.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Right, you know in a whole against your lefties and
finish and ending there too like they have Yep, they
have like some butckfold and again like the back of
that bullpen in the back end, like they're not top end.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
It's always weird and they're they're getting a little But
you know, I think arrag Getty just came back. I
know he's really bad to start the year, but he
just came back. Yeah, I don't know. I mean this,
this is definitely a team more built for the short
for a short series.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Right than I mean the regulars this year against they're
hitting one fifty three thirty eight with the twenty three
to three strikeout to walk ratio. And he's very good
against righties too. So if you're the Brewers, they like
they obviously they don't and they platoon, they do platoon,
but they're willing to pinch at aggressively too. But you
know you're gonna you know, there's gonna be left is

(39:56):
you're not gonna want to take out of the game,
like and they're gonna see even though you're in a
big spot. This is true for any team. But like
that's the thing is like Houston, I mean, I think
he is going to get in and we have actually
talked about the three AL wild card teams. We did
talk about Seattle, but you know this is what you're
dealing with for all of these teams.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, I don't. I mean, I guess the other option
is is Texas, which is we talked about Cleveland and
the Yankees last week, so I wasn't trying not to spend.
So I don't know if we want Cleveland is I
guess maybe the interesting note yere they've called up CJAS

(40:39):
apparently apparently yes, don't care for that pronunciation. Apologies c
J and family. But oh, speaking of which, we did
get an email and I appreciate it. I wrote back
to them and thank them. But I did get an email.
It is uh, Phil and Nick Mayita, So thank you.

Speaker 5 (40:57):
Saying no I I also have said like maytone Matone, Yeah,
like I don't I have I have said them all
especially and I was like, I'm gonna be real, I
don't know how to say this.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
So someone who's uh, I believe that like their mother
was was a teacher at the school or whatever, gave
us the pronunciation. Thank you uh for the email. I
believe it was Chris.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
I appreciate it, but I know it's been eight games
with c J. Kyphis also has the second best ops.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Plus on this team.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, he not a bad hitter.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
No, he's not. Like he's in that kind of kind
of Kyle Manzardo mode. And he has a one twenty
ops plus and Kyle Manzardo is one twenty, so there
you go. He doesn't hit it quite as hard as
Man does, but it's a similar optimized guy. Like I
don't know, Like this is where they don't have the
ninety ops plus guys.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
They're playing him in the outfield. Jeffrey is what I
would tell you, which is a choice.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
He's probably a better outfielder than Kyle Manzard. Like the
I don't fully trust, Like Kevin Williams has been good. Obviously,
he threw the near no hitter against the Mets. He's
also walking five for nine, but like they've gotten a
lot of innings out of Baby who hasn't been great,
and Williams and abviously you know you're getting out of
that bullpen even with class A suspended, Like they just

(42:18):
made Kate Smith the closer who's been better than class
this year.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Like right, I mean and and honestly might I want
to know Plase had crazy, but like Kate Smith might
might have just been as it once was.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
You know, Hunter Gaddis has only been okay this year.
There's a lot of Matt Festa, specifically for Patrick, like
Kobe Allard's been a good lefty for them, but it's
also striking out five for nine.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, they do have things you don't think are around
a hold up, Well.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
They have the random guys too, Nick n Right and
Eric Saprowski.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
I mean, Sobrowski, I think he's usually hurt right, He's
just one of those good or hurt the eyes. Uh,
you know they didn't get I think I don't know
if they were expecting full season because I don't know
that you expect a full season of Andrew Walters. But
like Andrew Walters is another good arm that they have.
I think he's been unavailable, but.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Like they mean, look, this is a team that is
what five games over five hundred, probably deserves to be
five games over five hundred. It just happens to be.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Well, they have a minus nineteen runder for uns.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Okay, but they have a good knublepen I guess they
could probably.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, that's they deserve whatever they like.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
They're in the wild card race by default more or less, right, Like,
if the Yankees were not playing poorly, they'd be three
or four games back and we would be having this
conversation or topic probably right, the Yankees extremely are not.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Do we want to talk about the Rangers then?

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Not?

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Really?

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Wow? Patrick, I feel like you open this up with
something about Texas.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Well, yeah, they really. They've made it very easy not
to talk about them. They've lost four in a row.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
And.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
I still think they're better than Cleveland. Cleveland, I don't
Cleveland's often Cleveland.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, but the thing to me is that with Texas
is that they do have those black holes that Houston
has just avoided, right like if they had if they
had confidence, Yeah, where he's where they've had black holes
like they would be.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
And it's like d h in first base too, It's
not even.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Like, look, Jock Peterson has an eight forty five ops
in the second half, so no, oh, it was real bad.
It's and it's eight it's eight games started, right Like
I'm not, I I understand, but there is at least
a sign of life there, uh you know, yeah, I
mean this is this is Adaly scarcia being a you know,

(44:49):
ten percent worse than the average hitter. They can't afford that.
They can't they can't afford Josh Young to be only
five percent or worse than they need them to be good, healthier,
healthy or good. Right, And it's just now he's bad.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Right.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
The other problem for Texas, and you know we've reached
we're starting to get towards this time, is it's time
to start looking at strength of schedule. Texas has the
fourth most difficult schedule the rest of the way. They're
chasing the Yankees, who have the twenty seventh most difficult
schedule the rest of the way. Even Cleveland is twenty first.
Like there's the uphill battle on that as well. Yeah,

(45:26):
it's I yeah, I don't know. I yeah. I talked
to a week about how I thought they were the
most the most solid team outside of the picture, and
I still kind of think they are. I just, you know,
four games a lot to lose in a row at
this point, when.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
The progatory towards the rest of the teams more than
the implementary towards Texas.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Yeah, and I just like they coughed up for when
everybody else was winning and it it really like this
weekend really hurt their chance. I'm curious to see what
the the seven day playoff odds differences thinks. It feels
like a negative twenty percent kind of.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Weekend team that feels like they've kind of played to
what you would expect.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
It is sixteen sixteen.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Drum has worn one hundred and thirty five innings for them.
Second on the team is Patrick Corbyn, who wasn't the
season with them.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
It's also wild that Jacobs de Grom is in first.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yeah, it's very bunny.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
He's gonna throw. He's not gonna throw two hundred innings,
but he's gonna throw hundred and eighty.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, and good ones, like.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Like perfectly good to him. He's gonna have like it's
not like an Elle Jacob de Grom season, but it's.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Gonna be the season All Star and deserved it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah, it's like a one. It's a one thirty IRA plus,
which would be his lowest full season since twenty seventeen,
but it's also a one thirty ra plus had many
full seasons since the twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
So okay, Yeah, we've definitely talked Texas in the past.
I don't know that we need to go into a
ton of detail, but yeah, I think, you know, I
don't know Texas is gonna need more Marcus. I mean,
I don't know if you get more Marcus, more good
Marcus sem.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Like Semion and Langford, I say, Langford needs to actually
work season take off, and it's a good defensive second
basement and Langford is a good defensive corner outfielder. But yeah,
I don't Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
So Pacotta has Texas and Cleveland each with about a
one and four chance of making the playoffs. Right to me, Yeah,
it seems about right now. Right in the in the
National League, every single non playoff team combined has about
a twenty five percent chance. Actually less than that, less
than that. You got nine for the Reds, six of
the Cardinals, five for the Giants. It's very funny, already very.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Funny on the Marlins.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Good job. But then yeah, all.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Right, let's take a break and we'll be back with
the rest of the show. Welcome back to episode four

(48:26):
hundred and eighty two of five and Dive. We were
on our four segment going around the horn, Jen Powell
almost almost stumbled on that last name. It's not spelled
how you might think when you hear Powell. If I'm
saying that wrong, anyone, feel free to let me know.
Because the first female MLB regular season umpire, how many

(48:50):
qualifications would we fit well, I mean.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
The regular season only, Like the regular season is important
but also not unimportant. If you didn't put in regular season,
I think most people would assume it.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
But then but it matters because they're they've been He's
already done spring training games, for example. So anyway, this
is this is a significant it's significant milestone. Dan Epstein
has an article talking to Perry Barber, who was the
essentially the only female umpire at at a high level

(49:21):
for a very long period of time, on the site today.
It is free to read with the basic subscription, just
need an email. I think it's that's that's worth reading.
I think one thing that he notes in there is
like MLB has been considerably behind. Yeah, like the NFL

(49:42):
has had women umpires, the NBA has had women referees,
like they are we at baseball is quite behind, and
like by fifteen almost twenty years.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Again, this is I think a lot of this goes
back to and I know, like Kate Morrison's written about
this in the site ways back, like women at a
very young age get siphoned off into softball and not baseball,
And I think that is, you know, further trickle down
effects for front office jobs.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
And that's on top of just the blatant. There's there's
a lot of blaytant, just like discriminations and bad atmospheres
and all of that kind of stuff that will.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Say for me, like covering minor league baseball, Like I
think I saw her umpire in the AFL last year.
I think I've seen her in Triple A at various
times too. But like there's like even going back to
Double A and the love miners like women umpires are
just like more common then they like college right now
the last five years probably, I would say, I see,

(50:44):
and it doesn't look is there some sexist asshole in
the crowd just had a couple of years, but there
they if they weren't doing it to the woman behind
home plate, they'd be doing it to some random nineteen
year old prospect too, Like they do that too. Yeah,
that's part of it. I do remember, Like because they
had the automated ball strikes in the AFL, like she

(51:07):
got like three or four calls challenged in a row correctly,
and like people were making a note of it around me.
But I do like, look, this is this is progress.
She got her own umpire card. It was slightly below average.
People about her strike zone being too wide.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Yeah, I saw, I saw one of the cards. It
did see. I didn't see the game it was. It
was Miami versus Atlanta. I'm sorry everyone. I did not
watch the game.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
First game of a doubleheader too. I think, yeah, game
of a double header.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
I think second game of a doubleheader. Yeah, I and
and she, I mean there it looks it looked again
via these cards, which I don't like. To be clear,
I'm not endorsing the cards. It looked like there's some
rough calls. And again that's not different than I think.
I said something and Patrick last night, and Patrick you

(51:53):
responded with, well, she's a triple A umpire, right.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure everyone's gonna judge her against
all the.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
To be clear, she is. She is up as a
substitute right now, which is how the process works. Your
substitute for for a few years and and then you
hopefully get a crack at it. And she's been doing
this for ten years, and this is generally I'm not
gonna say I'm not I didn't go through and pull
onpire cards or whatever. But like the replacement the substitute
h umpires are, there are some Dodgy zones.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Right and like worse than major league gaverage.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Yeah, right, exactly, And like.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
The idea is going to be that she has to
be like one of the best umpires together because she's you.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Know, but does that's how discrimination works.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
She can just perfectly be a below average majorrely gumpire
and that's fine.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Average versus wins above replacement levels.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Between between the Cardinals, especially in the Cardinals series that
the Dodgers just played. I mean, there were some wild
fucking zones zones, and like.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
I don't like they've changed the grating standards, so I
think they're really really you get penalized more for missed
a vote, miss balls.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Correct, correct, So yeah, it was Yeah. Again, I'm not
saying that there weren't some questionable calls, but I think
there were based on what I saw, I'm seeing. I
guess my point is you're going to find a few
of those games every every time, and it's not not
any different so yeah. I again, it's been it is

(53:30):
not easy to become a major leagu umpire in the
first place. That is a rough schedule. It's been ten
plus years. Uh and and I think it's just more
than anything, you know, again, a sign of how far
behind everywhere everywhere else see or at least several of
the major sports leagues MLB has been in this regard

(53:52):
because there's you think of all that, like there's no.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Reason, no reason, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Whatso have I did think an interesting note was from
from the article that Dan Epstein had with with the
interview he had with Perry Barber was the person who's
designed like Camden Yards. I know she redid the Dodger
Stadium too, like they when they when they did updates
and and park designs. I think she did P and

(54:21):
C Park as well. Like they have to have a
room for female umpires right as opposed to But Perry
was like they're all like broom closets and mascot rooms
or whatever because they just get rid because they haven't
been used. But they're there. It's required, like they have
it in the design. I say, you know, it's like,

(54:44):
so they've been doing this for it think about how
old P and C. Park is, right, I know it's
very nice. It's one of the newer ones, but like
it's it's been a while, you know. All Right, we
can move on to other news items. Justin Verlander says
he would like to pitch in twenty twenty six. I
don't know that he's making his best pitch to do that.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
At this point in my career. If something goes really wrong,
I'm not going to go rehab for surgery or anything.
I always understand that it could be but I think
physically I've shown some good health this season.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah, throwing one hundred innings just about Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Time for them to complete his circuit of Orange teams
and signed with the Orioles for one year.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yep, you give him the Kyle Gibson.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
As I've been on the mound, things have started to
get better and better. I mean, that's a good sign.
With all the work I've put in after the nerve
injury last year, which notoriously takes a long time, the
balls rolling in the right direction, and I would like
to continue pitching. You never know, it's a fickle game,
and I think the stuff is still there.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Baseball, I'll tell you when you're done. Before it tells
you you're done, it will tell you that you're Kyle Gibson.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Yeah, so we have metrics about stuff now.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Well, I also I was just gonna say, just on
a not at a very superficial level, like things have
been getting better and better U E. R A by
month four seven, three, eight, four oh two five forty
four fifties. It's pretty just in the same yeah, same vicinity.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
Uh yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
In the second half. It's been under four, just barely
under four, and it's compared to four to seven.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
And one year and ten million dollars that it will
probably be.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
The but yeah, it'll be the Charlie Morton contract again.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Elsewhere. David Robertson has arrived and so they recalled him yep,
just as they recalled him a few months a few
weeks ago and signed him. Uh yeah, he's he is
going to be here to help in the bullpen.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
He he pitched five point one innings in triple A,
gave up seven as he was eighteen point six hits
per nine, So don't worry about the ten point one
three A r A. He did strike out. He's got
a six strikeout to walk ratio.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
So, I mean, it's it's the Phillies in some ways
are of the an now playoff contender is just the
least interesting to talk about because they're just the same
team as last year the year before, and like they're
gonna win about the same amount of games probably and
then we'll see if they can do more in the
playoffs this year.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Yeah, they've got some real eight season of cheers vibes.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Yes, so is David Robertson Christy Ally in this, I
guess so?

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Or what's his name, the the rich guy that Kirsty
All is going after. Yeah, I think that's the cop.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Alex Wood has retired.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Yeah, sure, Patrick put this in here.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
I know I knew that one.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Yeah, I was. I was looking back at uh you
know when when we weren't sure if we had enough
content yesterday, I was like, oh man, A'm I gonna
have to write Alex Wood like retirement post, like clean,
seven hundred words and Alex Wood. I went back and
read some of the things that we have written about
Alex Wood over the years. Uh, and boy, he tends

(58:13):
to I will say, if you are a if you
are a replacementish level player, don't have all your transactions
happen like at the deadline or like during major news events,
so that you're your writers are obviously very punchy and
tired when they write about you. He gets a lot
of those last minute pas.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
That like he had like a nice I most remember
him giving up the home run distus in Game three
of the n LDS that led to like the giant
bat flip.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
One one I saw him. I think it was him
versus Charlie Morton in the World Series twenty seventeen. And
this is a very Dodger coded note. Uh to bring up,
but I saw someone mention it. A reporter mentioned.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
It getting pulled too late for bas No.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
He he was spectacular. He was the only Dodgers pitcher
in that series. And when he said, a starter who
changed his signs every inning, and he went five and
a third very good innings. I think Charlie Morton threw
a no hitter most of that game.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
And and he was the only like he was the
only successful basically started. Kershaw obviously struggled. Darvius struggled a lot,
and he he was the only starter to changed his innings,
his his signs every inning in that no, I will
there were. I think the report said, like there were
rumors that they were they were onto signs and so

(59:45):
he changed them. But the other pictures didn't. Well, I
don't think that they were unaware of the the situation,
they just opted not to. But I don't remember exactly
the situation. I believe that was a I think it's
it's great how bad my memory is, but I believe
that was again Charlie Martin almost had a no hitter

(01:00:05):
through most of it, and then H. J. Peters Jack
Peterson had a home run in the ninth inn. I
think the Dodgers ended up winning. It was Game four
of of the of that World Series.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
I will just say for Wood before we move on,
I just like I think one of the things for
me personally about Wood is that, you know, as we've
reached the age where we've spent we can span careers now,
can you know? I remember Wood is a rookie, and
I remember what now. And I think one of the
problems for me and Wood is that I always liked him,
and so his decline was an even greater decline for

(01:00:44):
me than he was for everybody else, because I actually
had like saw that promise and thought he was really
good and then he had.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
A good career.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
It was a good picture.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Never quite healthy enough, right, He.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Was always coming back from something and he was always
like trying to get up to full speed, and he
never could get up to full speed. But we knew
what full speed looked like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Somewhere in that three year run of injury, he go
like twelve and ten with right, I got three point
two e r A or something.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Yeah, So I also a vestige of the time when uh,
like baseball Twitter was was fun because he just colored
in his uniform after getting traded or whatever, and everyone
loved it. And then it started like a trend of
people doing that on their on their like social media advertisers.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
One of the first sort of through like Chris Sale,
so people like Chris Yeah, Chris Dale comes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
On, Yeah, Luke Jackson was released. This also feels like Patrick, like, yeah,
I just.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Think it's funny that Detroit Tigers they traded for like
five dudes and now we were seeing the process going.
It's down.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
This is obviously it's it's on a much lower end
of the scale or whatever. But it feels a little
bit like the Red Sox trading for James TIBs and
then trading them away. It's like it's like, oh we
thought there was oh yeah, but no, like we thought
we could do maybe something, but no, we can't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Actually, it's they're just regifting Luke Jackson.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
They called up Cody here to take a spot.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
On one of the other guys that they one of
the other sticks, just a big pile of sticks.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
He immediately gave up a run in his first appearance.
So you know, we'll just keep going. We'll keep going
through this process.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
They are building a bullpen out of a fuck load
of sticks.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Uh. The Rockies are back on a forty one win pace.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Yeah, yep, yes, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
See, I I gotta tell you, I had to. I
didn't know if that was if that was that was up.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Down, it's down. They were up a little bit. They've
lost seven in a row.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
They got absolutely massacred by the Blue.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Yeah. They have the second worst schedule left among teams.
Of course, No, it's the Reds have the most difficult.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
Schedule and by a long shot, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Yeah, it is good for the Mets. Uh, the Rockies
the second, of course, as always, always gets brought up
they don't get to play the Rockies, Yes, but neither
do the Reds. Neither do a lot of teams. The
Rockies only play.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Like like that the Rockies too much. But like there
we'll say if they can get to forty ones, I
guess yeah. They keep calling people up. They called Kyle
Carros and Aaron Shrunk again.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
The Shunk is back, Chunk on Earth Patrick.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
I guess we're just talking base but like bike, like,
how do they have like to bars back? Like how
do they have this many hurt infielders? But apparently they do.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Shunk on Earth is going to be the name of
the Ta tomorrow because there's literally no other team talk
about right now. Or poor Andrew and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Speaking of beauty, yeahs, yes, I'm sad it's with a
division counterpart to the Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Or he might get opportunities, he might he might pitch
something they deal with the Diamondbacks.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
I think. I think if the if the Tigers had
any sense of what they were doing, if they understood
that they were doing a whole fuck load of sticks. No,
bil Chrismot could be one of those sticks him.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Like, I guess they have enough starting pick. They don't
need to do a pen game. But just imagine like
Brandt Herder for three and then no bil Chrismot for
three and a player that's right, like yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
That's right. Ah, and that brings us to our game.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
That brings us to a game.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
Today's game is submitted by Colin Church. Thank you, Colin.
Uh this I will be reading you guys what we're
gonna do. You guys are both gonna call out it's
buzzer style. Whoever says it first. Uh, the way this
game works. I'm surprised we've never used this format. It's
it is a Jeopardy long standing Jeopardy format. And also
for those of you with britt Box Craig, it is

(01:04:44):
a quite it's a format used on Richard Osmond's House
of Games.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Oh, I've never actually watched it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Yeah, it's not it's when he's not too busy writing
quirky charming.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
I was gonna say, my wife reads all his books. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
Uh So what you're gonna do basically each and is
going to be a mashup of two different names together.
So you're going to use it's gonna be three names,
the first name, second last name, and the last name
will be the first name of the second player.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Fortune. That's not Jeopardy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Oh no, they before they do it is a fortune.
You're right, but they also do it. There's a thing
on Jeopardy, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
So Number one, scorecard, Hold on a second. I gotta
keep score for you guys somehow.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
Number one, longtime Minnesota Twins pitcher who ranks tenth on
the all time saves list and a postseason hero for
both the Red Sox and Rangers. That's correct, Craig, it's
the point, all right. Number two, I was stuck on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
I went to Eddie Barnardo first, and I was like,
that's not a first name.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Every day, all right. Number two, a legendary manager for
the New York Yankees and the player who robbed Barry
Bonds in the two thousand and two All.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Star Game, Joe Tory Hunter.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Good job, nice, nice, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Number three, hall of famer who spent twelve of his
fifteen years with the Phillies or White Sox, and a
player who was traded for Ty France.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
So many people have been traded for Ty France.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Though, Sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Hall of famer who spent most of his career with
the Phillies and White Sox and the players traded for.

Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Ty France, Dick Allen Craig, is it not that it's
not that?

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Yeah? So uh.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
And a player who was traded for Oh uh no,
it's I think Dick Callen is right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
I couldn't think of another. I mean, I guess it
could be. Uh huh, did Tony spend twelve years with
the White Sox or anything?

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Yeah, I got nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
I don't know how it is. Dick Allen Roudine.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Oh literally, just now, God damn it. Number four. I
was thinking of that. I was thinking of the padres
a Mariner's trade for whatever, h.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Umpire, Tim McClellan's worst enemy, and the two time Cy
Young winner whose primary success came with the same franchise
as the first player. This was tough.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
M empire, but.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
I know the name.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
I don't know what's the second part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
And a two time Cy Young winner whose primary success
came with the team of the first player, too hard, Yeah,
too all right? This one is George Brett Saberhagen.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Yeah I don't. I honestly I didn't know. McLean was
that umpire for that long?

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Yeah, all right? One of three players to have an
exposed camp in his Hall of Fame Hall of Fame plaque,
and a third base prospect for the team that used
to be the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
EXPOSU Gary Carter, keep them.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Good, nice, nice job, nice, all right, Jeff takes the
lead for a minute there, shame on you. Former Diamondbacks
ACE and current Diamondbacks ACE. Well, not not current, current
like this moment, but current like this year.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Patrick Corbyn burns.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
That's correct. Yeah, alright, to two, we've got four questions left.
Twenty twenty three al Cy Young winner and player who
finished fourth in the twenty twenty four al Cy Young voting.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Remer.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Not remember who won the twenty three am I supposed to?
I'm sorry, player who finished.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
Fourth last year? That's correct?

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Oh? Nice, good, strong, Yeah, all.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Right, Jeff the lead Hall of Fame pitcher who won
the nineteen thirty four and l MVP with Saint Louis
and the ace for Team Israel in the twenty twenty
three World Baseball Classic.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
That is correct, strong, Jeffrey, Really.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
All right, Craig, you gotta get them both to catch.
That's okay, that's fine, all right, Cy Young winner and
Hall of Famer who tossed thirty complete games in nineteen
seventy five and the player with the nickname Captain Underpants.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Wow, now we're doing also known as in the middle
of this.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I first thought was that doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
You know, I don't know who won a cy Young
in the seventies. I didn't know who won it in
twenty twenty three.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
All right, this one catfish Hunter Pins.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Oh okay, oh, YEPA should up? Yep?

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
Should up? Fair enough?

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
Twenty twenty five MLB Hall of Fame inductee and light
hitting centerfielder for the twenty twenty five World Series for
a twenty twenty five World Series contender.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
What are you going like, world, Dave Parker Meadows.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
That's correct, Good job, Dave Parker Meadows. So, jeff you
win four to three? But correct, good, good game.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
There's a lot of pole with two first names out
there that play baseball.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
So yeah, sure, yeah, well and also like you Parker Parker,
I don't think I think of as a last.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Name, but like, that's too late. Some two last names
as well, and Connor Brown.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Yeah okay, thank you for that, Colin, Thank you for
running at Patrick, thank you. Congratulations to Jeffrey and Thank
you to our listeners for joining us on another episode
of five and Dive, brought to you by the Baseball
Perspectives podcast Network. You can get in touch with the
show at five and Dive at Baseball perspectives dot com.
We are wherever you get your podcasts. Search for Baseball
Perspectives Podcast Network and we'll be in one of those.

(01:10:53):
We'll be in that feed. Thank you again. We will
see you later this week.