Five and Dive, Episode 483: Epistles from St. Paul

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to episode for eighty three to five and five.
It is Thursday, August fourteenth. I'm your host, Craig Goldstein,
joined as usual by Patrick Dubute and Jeffrey pattern Astro,
who's got banter.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, I saw a movie, a movie, Jeff.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Actually, ironically, the trailer for your movie showed while I
was watching my movie. I'm not that ironic, because you
know they're both Grosla movies.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, it was good.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Different Courslas, Different Cursel was unrelated. It was good. It
was nice. It was a twelve noon showing on a Tuesday,
so there are three people in the entire theater, which
is fine the way I prefer to see a movie. Frankly,
it was really good. It was a Kyoshi Kursas Cloud.

(00:57):
It's a I think, very incisive critique of late stage
capitalism as a paranoid thriller, but has a lot of
his kind of like ticks too. He's very good at
building tension and very like mundane situations, mundane shots, because
he's kind of like he'll just allid whole like plot
points or story points, I should say not plot points.

(01:19):
You never really get a feel for who these people
are in the movie, which makes it kind of it's
very just very uh, it's very disconcerting. I will say
the first hour was much much better than the second hour.
It kind of, I don't want to say, devolves, like
there's a very like there's a clear point to the transition.
But I thought the last hour was a little bit predictable,

(01:41):
but very very good movie.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, my movie. There was no second hour because my hour,
my movie was an hour and a half long.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
But yeah, it was Centuro, Yes, Sanduro.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
It's a delight. Yeah, Like, guys, there's no reason not
to see this movie. Uh, it's like samurai movies. Like
I'm not the first person to say this, but samurai
movies are basically westerns if without all of the boring parts.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I mean, was deeply influenced by John Fork.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
So yeah, yeah, but but you take out all the
boring parts, take on all the establishing shots. I think.
But it's everything is so so well connected, so smooth.
It's just it was there was never a point where
it wasn't just constantly.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Just a friend of mine saw it. Because obviously a
lot of the Kursaw four k's restorations are going around
movie theaters right now, and basically said, like every movie
that is a minute longer than they should have to
justify it basically like action movie or anything.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and surprisingly funny. Maybe maybe Curiso was
funniest movie.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Maybe not something he was going for a lot, but
you know, just just enough comedy.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I mean, Hidden Fortress obviously has like.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, but yeah, good films.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
I might see a movie this weekend and it's either
going to be Naked Gun or Fantastic Four, so not
not a I'd like to see Naked Gun so good.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, I'm still not like completely convinced that Hollywood knows
how to make this movie anymore. The problem.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, I just I see people post like they did it.
They may make a Gun again, like, but like I
don't like that they're just making things again.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, but I mean, like, I mean, it's not the
eighties anymore either, I would have if we've changed. So
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
I don't know. I mentioned this because there was a
previous The other One of the other trailers at the
beginning of My movie was for a remake of War
of Roses with Bennett Cumberbatch and Olivia Coleman. Two delightful
actors who I'm sure. I'm sure that movie is just
watched these two people act. But I was like, it
must be awful to be a writer now knowing that
you'll never have your stuff be made into a movie
because they already have decided they finished taking on.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Writing, unless you're like Zach Kreger's I guess, I guess
who is that the one that did weapons? He's from
Whitest Kids, you know, if I recall correctly.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Okay, all right, shall we get into the show.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, let's let's talk about let's talk about some bad news.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, first topic, poll ad position. I need people to
know that Patrick this whole alternative title that I think
should have won out, which was Twins Shitty, And I think,
honestly that's perfect that this is the pole ads Barely
out of the blue posted something to the social media

(04:36):
accounts of the Twins, a letter announcing they would not
be selling the franchise, but they would be selling parts
of or they did sell parts of the franchise. They
took on two limited partners for partnerships I guess group
Limited partner Groups, but that they would retain majority control

(05:01):
of the franchise. They would continue to be the governor
of the franchise and that they're this is essentially taking
the team off the market, which it had been on
for ten.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Months October November.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, so, uh, this was fairly devastating to win the fans,
I guess. I mean they've they've obviously been drawing down
their payroll for uh. I don't over especially with obviously
the trade deadline, but the off season prior coming off

(05:37):
what was a fairly successful run for the franchise as well,
the prior I mean certainly the prior playoffs, but I
would extend the run past that, you know, going back
to the team that set the home run record and
all that. Yeah, I mean, this is they short set

(05:57):
a lot of sentences in this in this letter.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
If movies should.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
Have to justify being longer than ninety three minutes, the
Twins should have to justify having their non sale take
this long. You said ten months to twelve months, and
I legitimately shocked. It feels like it's been because they've been,
you know.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Pulling down the payroll for years now. It feels like
this has been going on way longer, and then for
it to end with nothing.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Just debt relief. Patrick that ends with debt relief. It
seemingly there was reporting from Dan Hayes and Brittany Garoli
at the Athletic saying that the twin the Polo Lads
had about four hundred and twenty five million dollars in
debt that they wanted the potential buyers to absorb on

(06:46):
top of the purchase price, which I need, I guess,
like then you're just changing the purchase price. It's not
like a like a two step move where it's like
here's our debt and here's the purchase price. And they're
not like them all together. No, like they if you
were selling them for I think they were talking about

(07:08):
one point seven billion, and you were asking for them
people to relieve your four hundred twenty five million dollars debt.
On top of that, you're now selling the franchise for
two point one.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
It's all just money, right, Yeah, it's just all the same.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Like that's just a new that's just a different price.
You're not. It's not a two step solution, you know.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
This is this is like when a university, you know,
like when they do season tickets for a football team
and then you have to do the mandatory donation yeah
on top.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Right, but like eat personal seat license. Yeah, yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
But but they they so they were asking for this
additional money. The reporting indicated this was on the higher
end of the debt to whatever ratio I'm going, I
forget but the exact terminology, but I mean, it sounds
like the partners whatever they bought in at is higher

(08:03):
than the valuation that they were seeking the overall price for,
which is fine as far as it goes. Uh, And
it sounds like it will be going to relieve this
debt as opposed to I guess anything. Now, obviously you
can you can then shift, as Jeff said, it's all money.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's all right.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
You can shift that debt relief into spending if you want.
But it seems very clear they're not going to do that.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
You've got you have like a bunch of limited partnerships.
There's to me sounds like investment firms or hedge funds, right, Yeah,
who are going to want to return on this investment
that they paid probably over market price for.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, they have.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
A bad TV situation obviously. Still, you know, they're one
of the ones that I think that are sold through
the league. Now you know, Maybe that changes if they
as they start to package more teams in with this,
But I don't think it's going to change in the
New York Tournamentally, it's gonna change for the new CBA.
I think it's a major point in the new CBA,
and the Twins are gonna be one of the small

(09:04):
market teams pushing for serious uh financial whatever.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, it's fascinating to watch the Pittsburgh Pirates be born.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I don't we were talking about this in a group
chat because like.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Like they've done this before. What is like the Pirates before?
It's true, they came out of it.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, what is the reason? Like why do they still
want to be the Twins owners?

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Right?

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Like this is this is the second generation they.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Could because they couldn't get the price they wanted, right,
but they could have gotten like enough money they never
have to work, like multiple j Yes, they have enough
money to never work. This is the work they're doing, Yeah,
fucking things up for other people. This is the essential
work that they are doing in the community that they
keep talking about in these fucking posts. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
So yeah, the letter is a real failure of English language.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
I would say, why do we have so many of these.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
This is like like I don't know, like something.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Idio, right, Like I think it would be funny to
have like an eighteenth century British novel. It's just based
on letters from an ownership group to its its.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
I mean, like the actual problem is there's just not
a lot of you know, with the interest rate market,
Like this isn't the first Like the Learners obviously have
gone through this Artie Marino was trying to sell the
team and didn't really get.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
A very weird sales structure.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Right, they did that too, I don't know that with
the guy.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Who was trying to buy the Twins.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
By the way, Yeah, unlike Eshbia has plenty of money.
But also like so if you've looked at the way
he's run the Phoenix Suns recently, you might be probably
I guess it can always be worse even if you're
owner a straight rine star. But yeah, I just just
sell the team to someone that's gonna But the point
you're talking about chat like a lot of that, Like

(11:00):
they don't do anything else, right, I think one of
the brothers is like a Molie producer, but like they
don't do anything else, Like this is like there's like
the social cachet of being the Twins owner. Otherwise you're
just some random one hundred million.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, but what is the social cachet when you are.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
The team doesn't happening, right, The team doesn't have to
be good for this social cachet, as a lot of
people Saint Paul Society or whatever.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
I don't know, but a lot of people's happiness are
based on your actions, which is the definition of what
your money is for, right, Yeah, and you can control it,
and you can you could just choose to not make.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Those and also make money, like you're still gonna make money,
You're getting your points. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah. Their temperament is bipolard. They choose violence.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah. So second, there's two sentences in this particular letter,
which is like tens as long, like this is a
letter from the Polod family. I wish I wish the
Pollet family had cared about me enough to maybe write
a nicer letter like this is a short letter for
a big topic. But but one of them is our
focus throughout has been on what's best for the long
term future of the Twins. And that sentence sounds good

(12:12):
the first time you read it until you realize what
the twins are.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
The twins are four hundred and twenty million dollars in
Dad right now. The twins are not well, not anymore,
I guess like.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
When we talk of when you when you you're using
the first person plural pronoun to describe that, you know,
we look.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
They are a lot like unlike most fans, they do
own the team. They're allowed to use wi. Yeah, but they're.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Let be, but you're not part of what they're talking about.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
No, when they're saying the best the.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Future, small club and you're not, well, well it just
got a little bigger, actually it did. Yeah, but at
the same time, right.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
I think Patrick's contention is not that they used we
about the twins. It's that they used the twins when
they meant right.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
And so the this is this is you know, the
class a form of a business being a person when
it needs to be corporate veil. Yeah, and well baseball
is like one of the one of the things about
baseball is that it is when where the corporate veil
is the thinnest, right, it is a good it is

(13:16):
a good place for you.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Don't know who, Like the senior vice president of human
resources for Wendy's is but like you know, every.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Only when they show up to a Coldplay concert.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
The other sentence, uh, the other sentence that like kills me.
This is more standard poisonous verbiage than the other one.
But it's we two significant limited partnership partnership groups, each
of WHM will bring a wealth of experience and share
our family values. So if you had stopped bring a wealth.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
The wealth the experience is money.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
This so you know, as somebody who is so mad
at the Google cloud commercial, which they made a new
one now about I can't remember what it's called, but
there's a.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
New there's a new one that's not just tapping the plate.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
No, the tapping the plate is the new one, as
opposed to the hot dog sales one. The hot dog
sales one was the one that hot dog sales are
up when somebody hits home runs. But this one is
the tapping the plate and like the total randomness, like
this is the kind of garbage statistics that people make
fun of, you know, us when they don't understand statistics.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
But now it's a I but like this is what
we actually need.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Number four. I want to know quantitatively what what experience
is being brought. I want to I want a list.
I want we.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Don't even have the names of these limited partnerships.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
No, no, let alone.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
I just want I want an Excel spreadsheet that lists
out exactly what skills, exactly what what, what contributions are
being made.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
I just want scouting reports.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
I think it's Steve Cohen who once said, like, because
he was a limited partner for the Math, he was
like one of the twenty million dollars shares at the
woponsool when they had a lot of debt to get
right up along with like Bill Meher and I think
Scaramucci and like some of the people too. But and
he said, yeah, you're just a fancy season ticket holder.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Well, and share our family values. The words family values
in this case are there to make that sentence seem
more pleasure.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, their family values are what's best for the long
term their family, the pole Ads, their family, not family
values like all family.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
No, actually, I guess.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
I should I should change that. What the shared family
value there is what's best for the long term future
of insert individual right or like insert entity, because it's
for the pole Lads, it's the pole Ad family. But
for these limited partnership groups. It's the limited partnership groups.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, it's I I you know, everybody in Minnesot's us straded.
I absolutely sympathize this is this is the worst case
scenario for Minnesota Twins.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
And to your point about earlier, I think it was
Jeff said earlier like how oh no, no, it was Patrick.
How long this took? Like the Nationals at least wrapped
this up in an off season. I mean, they did
the same base maneuver, but they were like by the
time the season started, or just maybe right after, they
were like all right, you know what, not working.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Congratulations to the Nationals for portraying less hope.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
I mean I get that, Like, franchise values just keep
going up, right, The Celtics just sold for six billion
or whatever, and we're probably not that far away from
seeing a NFL team or an NBA team go for ten.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
But yeah, well the the Trailblazers just sold yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
For last day or two yeah, which, but.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Like none of this seems feasible to me.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
But right, like it's I get a certain point four
point just sell the just sell the team, like, just
find something else to like, look, obviously, I'm there's another
part here with my soccer club.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
But I don't I don't know. I mean, what I
would like to know is where the four hundred and
twenty five million dollars in debt came from, right, because
that's that's relevant.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
They're claiming stadium improvements, that's one of the things they listen,
you know, they've just been doing it for you. They're
doing it for you, guys. They took on that debt
as a sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
I mean, look, they had a very bad TV contract
even when they had a TV contract, but they also
weren't spending anything.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Who signed a ten contract?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, their revenue sharing.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well this is this is my pain about where the
where the debt is coming from, because if they're going
to remain in.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Charge, are they just going to keep running up debt?

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
And if that's the case, how what is your long
term What is the long term plan to sell the
club for the price you want? Because you're only actually
damaging it by continuing to own it and operate it.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
As I mean, look, eventually this becomes untenable like it
did for the Whippons, right, like that took it took
a decade.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, I mean, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, yes, from from the point where they took on
like minority partners, it took a little under a decade.
It's like twenty twelve or twenty twenty year thereabout. So Look,
that only came about because basically none of Salkatz's kids
wanted to work with Jeff Wilpon, right.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
I mean that was more of an interpersonal.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, it's like the session planning stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
And of course you know, fifteen years later, you know
this will take longer because there are more revenue streams
to protect them from failing. Yeah, so yeah, no, it's
gonna be It's gonna be dark, dark times. Yes.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Do you think I brought this up a few pods
ago because I I at the deadline, I really thought like, oh,
this means Joe Ryan and Pablo Lopez are on their
way out in the off season. This is continued belt tightening,
et cetera, et cetera. I think I had mentioned I
had read Joshian's newsletter about them and kind of thought, oh,

(19:11):
maybe there is more of a path to what twenty
twenty six here in terms of talent in the organization. Yeah,
I mean than I had been thinking. And now I'm
kind of like, well, I don't think they're gonna do this.
I think anything I guess is the question.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
I think yes, I personally like, we don't know yet,
but yes you can. You can look at this roster,
you can look at this nucleus and say, yeah, you
could see how they could make it work. I don't
see how they have the will to make this work.
I don't think they care. If it were.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
This feels like the Reds.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Maybe yeah, he's like, well, I mean we'll get to that.
They look like, I mean, they're like you're talking about
like high end health outcomes, especially if for like Buxton,
Pablo Lopez, possibly Emmanual Drigaz at that point. So like
you can see a way to do it. But they

(20:05):
have a good system and they have a lot of
guys in the upper miners. At this point, Lukisha looks
like again, I mean, he had a kind of a
freak injury.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
But but he's had multiple injuries.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, but it's like he's hurting the right you can
and it's still the AO Central right, and like the
Tigers are good, but it's not hard to see the
Tigers have their own health concerns I think as well.
I don't think the Tigers are like this unscalable mountain
next year.

Speaker 5 (20:32):
Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't know, but yeah, I think
they're more likely to trade Joe Ryan than they are
to you know, do the stuff around the margins they
need to do in addition to getting the good health outcomes.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
I think there's a path forward this team. I think
this path forward is the early twenty tens Pirates. Sure,
they like they stumble into a couple of wildcards, don't invest, yeah,
and then fade like I.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Mean, the Pirates, like the Twins are, I would say,
a above meet Ian draft and development team, developmental team.
They have a pretty good system, but they're like they
can't do like the Rays or the Brewers or the
Guardians stuff. They're not on that level. The Pirates are
not an awful comp which is not something you would
normally want to say about a team. Like the Pirates

(21:18):
did have like an actual I think at the time
developmental advantage with some of their pitching stuff. That I
don't think that the race teaching sinkers. Yes, ra siriage
teaching sinkers, and they had like you know, Andrew McCutcheon, right,
that makes a different. They don't have like that. Buston
can be that guy, but he's never healthy for long enough.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
He's okay this year, yes, well what was the Reds?
I missed the what happened in the Reds that brought
that up there?

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Like a game out of the wild right.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
I understand, But I guess that's my point is that
like they.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Like the things, could be the guardian next year, right,
the Twins are kind of the guardians every year, so
it's fine, but like.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Okay, I guess that was my point though, Like they
have the Reds have some developmental I don't want to
say advantages. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Uh, the Reds not always well, have spent money. They
bought it the deadline like they're.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
They have they have spent money. Yeah, but they also
they were close to the wild card? Was it last
year or the year before when they traded for Sam
Maul and that was it?

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Right?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
They have constraints that stopped them from doing the thing
that they need to do and they just kind of
soldier on. Was kind of my point. I think it's
similar to the to the Pirates example.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
And the Twins are also usually good enough, like even
this year in a down year where they're not able
to be in a position to draft draft Chase Burns,
Hunter Green, you know, the top, top, top talent, you know.
And look, they got Kisha in the second round. They
drafted Kail and Culpepper, who I didn't love as a
pick last year, but it was good. So they they
do all right right, but they're not they're kind of

(22:50):
like in the Mariners spot. They're not as like, not
as uh self congratulatory about it as the Mariners, I
guess that'd be the way to put it. But like
where they do in the marriage are a little bit
a little bit better on the developmental side, especially with pitching,
I think, but it's the same kind of thing where
they have these constraints and they don't really do enough,

(23:13):
and you know, it's where it's sort of where you are.
And like I guess, Julio has been healthier than Buxton. Basically,
it's the long and the short of it.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
I would say the difference between the Reds and the
Pirates is that the Reds do have constraints. They like
to pretend every once in a while that those constraints
are not enough that they can win beside it, and
the pirates, do.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Not pretend no, Bob Nunning is in it to win
it for Bob Nunning, right anyway, like the Reds, and like, look,
the Reds ownership has obviously made some dumb quotes.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
It was like one of right, But I guess I
guess my point on the Reds, or at least the
recent vintage of the Reds, is that they've had a
number of, you know, cost controlled, interesting guys that make
people think like there's something here, and they just kind
of always do this flirting with the wild card. Yeah,

(24:00):
and that's kind of where I could see this Twins
iteration going, in the sense that they're not going to
augment in a way that gets them out of that,
but they're also not necessarily going to, uh.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
There's over here too, right, Like there's just an actually
because because they are good enough at producing major league
talent internally, they're not going to be the White Sox.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
And look, if they trade Joe Ryan, which they may do,
they're going to get a haul for him.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Right then you start getting into like I guess I'm
not trying to say this because they got him from them,
but like kind of raising like discount rais, right, like
where it's you're training the guy early, but you're getting
enough back that you can kind of recycle. Uh yeah,
I mean it's weird because it's obviously a lot of

(24:52):
what sunk this team was like Royce Lewis being bad
when he was healthy and like that probably.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
He isn't and like you've had a lot of injuries
at this point, Like.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. They're just running out.
Who's a Urani right now?

Speaker 3 (25:14):
All right?

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I did like before we go on, I did like
that bus and like took them all out to dinner
as like a team bonding, just like, well, Rasmo Ramirez
is here. Well there's not that many people. It's not
as expensive.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Now you don't have to worry about fitting them rroll
around one table.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
You can not, you, Travis Adams, we don't even know.
All right, let's go to our second topic, scoreboard watching. Patrick.
I'm gonna ask you to talk about our first one
here since you did a brief look up of what
this was.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
All right, So yeah, so the Brewers have when they're
twelve straight, they beat Pittsburgh. They were like close, and
I feel like I love the Brewers, Like when you
don't watch the games. It's just like they're not worried
because this is house money. But it was like the
impression that the needingness might be the end. And then
suddenly it's twelve five the Brewers, nine singles, three doubles,

(26:08):
twelve runs because they went so.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
We got Craig and I got taken a task. And
the Blue Sky replies about he was I don't think
he's wrong. I don't think he's wrong. I was thinking
about it. I think they definitely have had several ninetieth
percentile outcomes where they've they've had ninetieth percentile sequencing. It's
what they've really had.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yes, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
What's funny is that I was looking at their numbers
with runners in scoring position, and on the year they
are the second best team with in terms of production
offensively behind the Dodgers.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Weird, But I want to I want to address what
what the the person said. I think it was Steve,
and he was he wasn't like rude about it, no
he was, but he said, this doesn't feel like a
ninetieth like a bunch of clustered ninetieth percentile outcomes, and
he and and he started from the point of like
their opening day lineup or their starter either the regular

(27:01):
starters or whatever. And like certainly, you know, he pointed
out that like not everyone was experiencing this, and that's true, right,
Like and by the way, I went back and listened
to what I said. I said, Wilson Contreras, and I apologize.
It's obviously William Contrera's you know, having the bad you know,
having the injury and a bad start to the year. Offensively,

(27:22):
that's not a ninetieth percentile outcome. I'm I don't if
I was implying that everyone was doing this, that that
was wrong. Christian yology is having like a fiftieth percentile outcome.
It's still pretty good. It's just not ninetieth. But you know,
you might have believed in Bryce Terrain and his upside,
but he prior to this year had posted a sixty

(27:43):
six and an eighty seven OPS. Plus he's got a
one twelve. That's actually significantly more than as that's ninety
ninth percentile outcome if you're looking at I went and
pulled our ninetieth percentile projection, which is like a six
eighty four ops. He's he's well over seven hundred it's
like we're and I understand that that happens. Right. People

(28:07):
have been high on Bryce Terran in ways I have
not for years, and it's panning out this year. Like
there's no arguing that Isaac Collins is having a ninety
ninth zero point nine percentile outcome season. Now, that can
be good development, that can be good talent spotting. Whatever.
He didn't do this shit in the miners, so like,

(28:29):
let's let's be real about that kind of stuff, which
does Again, I'm not really I don't mean to use
this as as a way to say the Brewers are fraudulent.
I think this is to their credit in terms of
building depth and knowing when to cycle off guys or
onto guys or just having the guys to cycle to,
which is a little bit what of what he said

(28:52):
in regards to their pitching, right, Like they got it
out of Tobias Myers last year, Tobias Myers didn't have
it this year, and all of a sudden they have.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
And Jacobowski too, who I know he's heard right.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
For sure for sure, and and I guess you know
my point on this, and I don't think he was
doing it, but there is there is some stuff going
on in some of the sentiment that I see from
people talking about Milwaukee that is similar to the sentiment
I saw from people talking from Baltimore in the recent

(29:24):
past and from Saint Louis before that is you guys
don't get it. Your projection systems don't get it. There's
something here, And I'm not closed off to the fact
that the projection system especially don't see some of these things.
But you know, if I go back to turrentin, why
would a projection system see this.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
No, he's been a pretty static that is a pretty
static player.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
For that is that is a both a flaw of
a projection system and a strength of a projection system,
is that it's not going to say this guy's going
to improve by twenty five points when he's never shown
of a an elite of ops plus, when he's never
shown this type of thing before, and and we get
to see narratives, right, Oh, he's changed a swing, he's

(30:11):
added muscle, he's whatever, And we can layer those things
in and we're better at that stuff. And we're also
worse at that stuff because we don't always know what
makes a difference. And but but I wanted to the
reason I brought up the Cardinals is for a long
time people said, you guys, just like there's something that
you guys don't get about the Cardinals. Blah blah blah.
How's that working for the Cardinals now? Right? My theory

(30:34):
was always that they had a number of guys that
they I think I always bring up Greg Garcia or whatever. Right,
they could get six great weeks of Greg Garcia and
they somehow did it like once a year, and I
think I think some of that is happening to Milwaukee
right now. And again that is to their credit.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
All right, this is like would you bet on Isaac
Collins and price terrang to an extent? And and you
might find people who will be doing that next year,
is my point. Right, It's kind of.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Like find people who buy ter Sure.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
But I'm saying like this, we do this every year
with like a different Rockies person, right Like, it's just
like guys just have a year. Like look at what
like happening with Pete crow Armstrong over the last six weeks,
right like, And there were warning signs there in his
approach and just la Lawrence.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Butler, Right, Yeah, there was a lot of a lot
of hyper like we just.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Assume that like this is that the newest information is
the best information, and oftentimes it is to an extent,
but you know, like the league adjusts, right.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
We were doing this last year with the Brewers. Ye
last year it was Blake Perkins and Garrett Mitchell and
still Blake Perkins.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Still Blake Perkins. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, it's a small sample, but it is still Blake Perkins.
I mean again, you can do the same thing that
we're talking about with Terraan with Freelik, and and again
you can find people who bought him and thought he
was going to be better than what he had been.
And he had been a ninety ops plus guy in
a eighty four and this year he's a one eighteen.

(32:12):
You're not going to find a projection system that does this.
And yes, that is a ninetieth percentile outcome for south reeleck.
I looked it up based on the projections. You don't again, don't.
You could say the projection was wrong, and that's fine,
but it's going off the information of what he's done,
and obviously a lot of comparables. There's a lot of
other stuff involved, but that is a ninetieth You can

(32:33):
say it doesn't feel like a ninety I think he
said these are seventy fifth percentile. No they're not. No
they're not they are ninetieth. And and again that's not
an insult. You don't have to feel. Also, to be clear,
every good team gets this out of some guys. When
Boston was winning ten in a row, it was fucking
Romeganzalez and no one bought it. And it's a lot

(32:54):
more biable from South Reelek and Bryce Terrang than it
is from Romeganza and Abraham Toro. To be clear, that
is again you're starting from a better baseline. I don't
I don't want this to be perceived as a slight.
It's not a slight.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Enjoy your burger.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
This is great. This is what makes sports great. I
know a lot of people, I think a lot of
people on our side are like, don't you know want
to be dow or want to be the wet blanket,
Like this isn't whatever. I think. This stuff that goes
against what we would have conceived.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
That's what makes it interesting, going to what's the point right?

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Right? Right? I mean, this is why they play the game.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
And I don't think the Brewers are fun, but.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
I think this is also the.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Fun story. They're not fun to play against point, but
that again, that's a compliment.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
The projections have a value in this too, as the
thing that you compare the product to. Right, Like we
can say you deserve credit, and because of the projections,
because of what we the quantification of our expectations going
to the season, we can say exactly how match credit
they deserve, because they do deserve it. But the projections
play a role in this. I do think, you know,

(34:07):
I said this on thee I.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Think people, look, look, we're gonna I said to Rob
Mains recently, and I was gonna say it to you,
You're not gonna be happy. But I said, we're gonna
have to write the Orioles article we write two years
ago ago, and and the White Sox article from the
other side last year. But like how to miss a
team by twenty whatever games? You know, the Royals are

(34:29):
the Royals. The Brewers are going to to we had
them at about eighty eighty wins. That's going to be
very wrong, right and so, and I think at the
time there were people who said, like we probably said
Milwaukee is going to do better than this, but maybe
not that. Maybe mid eighties and we're still wrong, right,
But so the projections have a part to play, and

(34:50):
again you can disagree with them going in, but I
would really like it doesn't change that sometimes these are
outlier good seasons from guys who may not be bad,
But aren't this good going forward all the time? I,
you know, I yeah, again I would. I guess I

(35:11):
would ask anyone who who is feeling otherwise, like what
they think is going to happen next year with this roster?
Are we seeing suddenly just a Milwaukee juggernaut based on
I you know, I could buy it based on pitching
more than I would based on the lineup, But it's not.
I don't think it's gonna play out this way because

(35:32):
that's not what That's just not what happens.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
One of the things about the Brewers that makes them
special is how believable they make this feel. Yeah, that's true,
and I think part of it, and you know, I
should say this for the article that I apparently am
going to have to write next week. One of the
things about it is that, like going back ten years,
like the beginning of the Council era, one of the
defining traits of the Brewers is that they managed to
always find a one point five win player for every position.

(35:55):
They'd always dig up a guy a Travis Shaw, you know,
somebody who would be okay everywhere and then so even
during the lean years, they were never bad. And now
that one point five win player is now a three
win player like every position. And it's it's because they've
been doing this for so long on a smaller scale,
they've just kind of ramped it up a little bit.

(36:16):
It's it's totally the same thing, just to an incredible degree.
That seemed hard to believe in the incident, but like
is kind of natural over the long term. It's it's impressive.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, And look, if you want to say there are
offsetting positive regressions to be had here for anyone who
would regress down right, If you want to say William
Contreras can have a five to win season, he might
have a five win season this year. He's at three already,

(36:49):
but that would be a lot, but like a five
win season next year. Do you want to say, Jackson
Churio has eight win upside and we're getting three so
far this year. Yeah, I'm with you, right, I think
that's that's believable. But it it. I guess, you know,
you just you don't know how this is, this is
gonna play out, and I'm not I guess My biggest

(37:13):
point here on on you know, when Jeff brought up
what we got taken to task on is like, I know,
it doesn't always feel like a night like a ninetieth
percentile or more outcome when someone's putting up a one
fifteen ops plus, but sometimes it is right And and
then again that's not meant to be an insult, and

(37:33):
it's it's not meant to be like It's all we
can go on is is essentially what the projections were
for a player in terms of gauging that, right, That's
what the mid season autopsy series does. Now, again you
can disagree with that, but we put out these ninetieth
and ninety ninth percentile projections in our spreadsheets and these

(37:56):
so these guys are exceeding them, right, And and that's
again that's take joy in it. I mean, love it.
That's that you should, because this is what's what's exciting
about sports and having a team run this good. I
don't know that's anyway we did. We didn't even get
to the to the verse.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, so that's fine. So apparently there has been a
long standing, like long long standing promotional offer by George
Web Restaurants. Apparently started back in the fifties. So apparently
like it used to be that the like, if the

(38:34):
team wins seventeen games in a row, they'd give away
free burgers. They've dropped.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
You just don't even have to worry.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, something to put in the paper and
drop the thirteen. They dropped a twelve. It is the
third time since since then the Brewers have won twelve
in a row. They actually came close earlier this season,
they got to eleven before the managers beat them for
the All Star break. But yes, the the is the
free talk, except it's a free burger for everybody who

(39:02):
can reach at George Web restaurant wherever those are. Ye
after winning twelve straight like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
I mean this is uh well, you know, I'm not
I'm gonna say it, but congratulations, enjoy your enjoy your
free birk, enjoy your very good team.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
I don't know how good the burgers are, I know, fair.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Enough, who cares.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
I feel like it's Wisconsin that she had, like a
good burger. Yeah, you get the butter burger.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah, uh yeah, the Padres first place.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Padres first place.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Has not had a chance, uh an opportunity to talk
about the Dodgers lately on this podcast, so we can
do it now.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
But did you see the comment speaking of getting taken
to task? Yeah, I got look I will. Yeah, there
you have the first place Padres. I don't know what
do you want?

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Well, I I think it's I just think it's very funny.
There were a lot of worries about Dylancey's and you know,
he had a bad month or so. I don't believe
it was more than a month. I'm not tracking. But
over the last month since the break, Dylan Ce's twenty
six innings, forty strikeouts.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
He's fine. He's been getting the strikeouts the whole time. Yeah,
but like he is a four or five r.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, but he has the last month it's been three
point one. He's well, and.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Three point one is fine. That's also still it's not
like a number one, no, but.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Like it's also not somebody you have to replace in
the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
It also matter, I guess when Nick Pavetta has a
has a four win season already.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Yeah, yeah, he was good, like what a good signing
that was. I remember saying it was a pretty good
signing at the time. You know, Michael King is back.
I don't think he's pitched it, but he is.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
I thought he did. I think you have one?

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, he had leave one start.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Okay, so oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
It was a tremendous post that was. It was like
Neon the toilet or whatever was like the intro and
it was like King back on his throne, Like I
don't there there's a very he went two innings.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah, okay, runs.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
It was a it was a very.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
He hasn't had his first real start yet, is what
we're saying. Yeah, so, uh freddy for me? Thirty four
played appearances, betting three fifty five, three ninety four forty four. Uh,
Ramon Loreano stepped in. He's betting three thirty three four
hundred six hundred, uh Ryan or not not not as much?
Three three forty three obp you know walking you know

(41:36):
the Royals could use the three forty three opp uh
So yeah, Like.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
I mean like Ramon Loreano has a an exactly one
thousand ops more than that. And again, this I'm not
trying to say, this isn't a valuative thing, but just
as a as a record of what happened ten RBI
in twelve games. So it's it's well timed.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yes, like and move on. Is he a top ten
an l m VP candidate?

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah? Is that a take that happened?

Speaker 2 (42:05):
That was a bob take? Yes? All right, So.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
The team has fourteen basically had fourteen hits and like you,
basically eleven of them have been average or better. Like
that we have now the anti first half Padres, everybody's
now just good.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
And again line, I think he did a great job
of plugging these holes that they had in their lineup.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's nice when someone does a
great job and it works because those things don't have
to actually coalign in baseball. But this taste, it doesn't seem.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
So far it has so far, right, it's always it's
always tenuous, but.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
So far, I mean, they're a playoff team.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Like, I don't know, am I allowed to bring up
the Dodgers? Is it gonna be? Look, I understand what
the right he's saying. When it's when it's not relevant
to the team, I've I've brought them up too much.
And if that's the case, I apologize he wasn't. He
did not say, like, you can't bring them up ever, right.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
And you can. You can only talk about the Dodgers
in the form of song lyrics or or colors. You
can just.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
It's the title. But I still feel that it's where
we are.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
No.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
I mean, part of the reason they're in first is
they've erased a nine game gap from the end of
June in about six weeks or so, six seven have
they erased it? Well? Right, so, but my point is
it's in tandem, right. I mean, look, the Padres have
have They've won a lot of games. They've they've won
five in a row, they've won seven of eight. Ah,

(43:35):
you know all of that. It's it doesn't you know,
it takes two to tango. But I guess my point
being it also it takes two to tango, and the
Dodgers have they just got swept by the Angels. Uh,
and it's been you know, it's certainly an excruciating fashion
they've I got in a discussion.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Sorry about the phrase. Excruciating fashion just makes me think
adult and rushing something on that.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
I mean, like, that's right, it's just like what's been happening.
They you know, Showyotani hits into a triple play, like
I don't you know. The thing is none of this
the I got into a back and forth with Matt
Trueblood about this yesterday because he talked about how the

(44:24):
Dodgers are the oldest team in the league and that
some of this slippage is probably, like we're not just
going to see the bounce backs that we would. You
might normally expect the regression that you might normally expect
from a bad run. And I don't disagree with that
premise in general, but I also don't think their age

(44:45):
and the age related decline is what's sinking this team specifically.
I mean you could never know exactly right. I mean,
Rooki Bets hit one ninety eight miles per hour off
just off the end of the bat last night off
Kenley Jansen that I think you could argue in his prime,
maybe that's a home run, right, and there's an age
related decline that impacts that, and it would have tied

(45:09):
the game. So maybe this loss is laid at the
feet of age. But also this is an overworked bullpen
that has blown a variety of Winnabowl games, and a
lineup that frankly has that that has not converted. They've
had a ton of bases loaded appearances where they either

(45:32):
they get a walk and then they or whatever they
get one or zero out of you know what should
be crooked numbers, right, and this is true whenever your
team runs bad, this is what happens, which I guess
is kind of my point. I mean, this is a
team that's running bad. I don't think this is a
team that's necessarily like on the precipice. I do think
age is relevant to a larger picture concern here. But

(45:55):
this the Dodgers also were doing this late last year.
I mean, they had a series with the Padres that
could have resulted in control of the division at the
end of September last year that they ended up winning.
I mean, the Padres had a triple play to off
Miguel Rojas in September last year, right, Like some of

(46:16):
this same stuff was happening. Dodgers had a sub five
hundred July because they burnt their bullpen. Now, I think
they did a better job of addressing their bullpen last
year and they didn't this year, So you can question
whether they're going to be you know, they're going to
have the in season bounce back. But I don't know
all of that to say, like that is part of
what's led to the nine game attrition in the division,

(46:41):
with the Padres just absolutely nailing the deadline and reaping
the rewards. I mean, I don't know what else. I
don't know what else to say about this team, Like
I would love to talk more about the Padres, but
they're they're crushing it. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
I was thinking, I was looking at Machado his numbers,
like he's an all star this year. He is having
a fine second half. He having one of his better
offensive seasons. I don't think I've heard anybody talk about
him at all.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, he had he even had a he had a
really monster start to the year and didn't get a
ton of attention. Yeah, I think another part of this,
I'm trying to pull up the numbers, but Xander Progarts
has been running a fairly hot Like the last month,
he's had an eight twelve ops for him. That's not

(47:34):
like roundbreaking, but he was pretty bad the first half
of the year, and they're getting a lot of these
performances lined up together, and this is what they were
expecting when they brought in all these guys.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
The other thing is, like I understand the Dodgers only
care about championships. They're going to make the playoffs still
because like the playoff race the National League, it would
like for this to matter more. Yeah, it doesn't matter,
And you know this is all you know because of
baseball's inherent irony. This is all gonna end with the
wild card Dodgers knocking the first place Poudres out of

(48:08):
the playoffs in the first or second round, because that's
how baseball works, which is why we shouldn't have expanded playoffs,
but you know we do. The Mariners had a share
of first place for a moment, which would be more
interesting if they didn't like have first place for like
a full month earlier in the season. It's so easy
to forget that happened. Then they ran into the buzz

(48:31):
off that is Trevor Rodgers. Trevor Rodgers.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Trevor Rodgers.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
By the way, I was just just the other Orioles
on Baseball Reference their Reference War, their results based Reference War.
The Orioles have four point five Reference War as a team.
Pitching Trevor Rodgers is three point.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Eight of it.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
So if you take Trevor Rodgers and you take Dean Kremer,
who's at one point six. Just by virtue of innings,
the rest of the team combined is negative point nine.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
We are back. I should know what we are back
to The Kremer units have stabilized back at team. They
really they have stabilized.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah, he is back at four point one. Yeah, Sagana's
got a four point two four.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
I said this in a in a.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
T A.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
That's the deadline when the Orioles if I don't want
one of the trades os. But but Trevor Rodgers like
went from the butt of jokes ours included right to
being like the guy onnest I mean that is now
a joke.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Part of the argument, look, part of the argument for
Tame of Trevor Rodgers is they had some developmental runway
to fix him right, and they did, and just everything
else went wrong around.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
It's very funny that too late.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
It's and it's also like it's tempting to be like
the Orioles came to Trevor Rodgers, but they didn't like
he also got like to your point, got better as
the team just went to ship.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Yeah, because you know you may be dead the time
Trager Rodgers is actually good.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, I'm saying, Patrick, I'm tired of you talking about
the Orioles when we're supposed to kid, I'm kidding. What
think they're good?

Speaker 3 (50:10):
They're fine. They will also just make the playoffs no
matter what.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Well, here's here's a take I'm gonna throw at you.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
These kind of races don't mean anything.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
I know, I bring it up all the time. But
I was reading Josian's uh third third previews and then
he did a he did a re rank of like
his order, he is the Mariners is the second best
in baseball.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I can't get there.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
I can't get there either, but it's fiven.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
I can see it.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
There's like no good teams, so like the well, second
best team in the sixth best team.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
I guess, but maybe maybe I'm misrepresenting it. I know,
I know. He he did like a power rankings, but
it might have been to win the World Series. And
his argument, I think is specifically built around the Mariner's
pitching staff in the playoffs. I guess again, you can
get there, I can see someone else getting there. I
can't catch.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
I like the actual guys like I look, I think
these are good pictures broadly speaking, but like their Game
one and two playoff starters have not been great this year, right,
like Kribbean Castillo have not been amazing?

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Are they?

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I don't know? They have has been quite good, But
like I would say, Gilbert.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Is going to be one of those top two and
he hasn't had the best season either, No, but he's
he's been hurt as well. He has been better lately.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
The thing that I think he's he's not the best season.
And also he's striking out twelve for nine.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
And giving up six point five. How does he not
have any r and the two is given?

Speaker 1 (51:44):
That is the real question. Yeah, I guess home runs,
but it's not even.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Not even that really one point two p. Nine, it's
not it's not egregious that sequencing.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Against Milwaukee could be.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
And that's the thing is that, like the Mirrors and Rus,
I think there is a way to see them as
the best teams because they have the least ways to
see them as not good teams. Like they're the two.
I think they could make the argument that the two
most well rounded teams at this point. The marriage don't
have a hole in their lineup anymore. Now that Cole
Young's hitting, and now that Ben Williamson is not allowed
to hit, Like that lineup looks pretty good even a

(52:26):
terrific year, uh you know, but like yeah, like one
or night, I mean, Dominic Canzone is hitting, which not
a guarantee at any point going forward, but like, yeah, yeah,
you're starting to see there's enough there. I do think
one injury like this is the Mariners to a d
but one injury and it start getting starts getting dicey.

(52:48):
You've got Luke Rayley is your bench bat who is capable,
and then after that it's Solano, Masterboby, Dylan Moore who
who is done? And Mitch Carver like yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
You know, we talked about the padre isn't working and
we talked about this with the Mariners the last pot.
So I'm not gonna dwell on it. But like Suarez, no,
but Josh Naylor very much yes, right, like and kind
of enough to cover for as much as Suarez hasn't
and will be fine, Like I'm not probably yeah he's
got a seven ops plus as a Mariner, but.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Yes, but he'll be.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
The Mets, Jeff I left because I.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Thought, I don't like have anything. They're just playing really
bad baseball. Like even David Peterson, who's been like their
one guy that's gotten the lanth all year, couldn't get
through the fourth inning with a sixth nothing late yesterday,
Like everything that is going wrong basically can go wrong
at this point.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
Yeah, yep. And then the last two teams the Giants
have lost five straight. It was weird because I feel
like there was a lot of optimism around the Giants
after the deadline. They they I don't really know why.
They guess they had like a stretch where they won
five out of.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Six, oh like because of the deadline they sold.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
And they've also had like multiple like they've had three
four plus game losing street. There's six three six game
losing streaks already. Yeah, Bob Melvin is now in the
hot seat. From multiple places, I've seen that they're wondering
if Melvin needs to step down. I you know again,

(54:25):
it's you know, I never I don't. I have a
hard time believing that Bob Melvin is the problem. But
something's gonna have to be the problem at some point. Uh,
you know. Tyler Fitzgerald, they called him up to play
right field, which I don't think he has done before.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
He's played all over as I know, maybe not right field,
but not right field, and that is a weird right
field to have to play to something agree.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Uh So sure whatever, it's still the Giants, It's doesn't
it doesn't really matter. Nobody's lives are changed when the
Giants lose five straight, not even Giants fans. Also the Rangers.
The Rangers have not lost five straight, but it sure
feels like it. Like I have seen multiple people say
the season's over. They are four back, I think right

(55:12):
now of the Wildcar three and a half, and it's
been a rough go for the Ragers. I don't think
they're done, but like there're certainly now. It's two and
a half months of playoff time, playoff.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Just to go back to Fitzgerald, he had played two
games in Sacramento prior to his call up and has
now played one game in right field, but like he's
played center.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Like it's just it's it's more, it's not so much
like embarrassing as just like an indication of where things stand, right, Yeah,
and was he hitting well down there? Let's see, just
because I mean they sent him down after struggling at
the major league level. He was five PCL not fine,
six ninety oh ps and the PCL is not No,

(55:57):
that's not good. So yeah, but you need, but you need.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yeah, let's take a break and we can come back
with the rest of the show. Welcome back to episode

(56:29):
four hundred and eighty three of five and dive. We
are on segment three, the round up. Patrick.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
Yeah, So I just thought this would be a good
chance for us to I feel we should probably do
this more, but just kind of tour around some of
the articles them up at BP this week and talk
about the things that our writers have have brought forth.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Yes, I agree.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
So the first one, Matt trew Bled wrote an article
I think yesterday about Kyle Tucker. Yeh, and Kyle Tucker's
but I did not know he was lumping. But he
has been something pretty badly. He has not hit for
power and uh, Matt found out that part of that
is because of a change in his swing. He's flattened

(57:12):
out his swing. He's basically not getting power to the
opposite field anymore.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
And and.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
What the takeaway I found from the true ud piece
is that now that we know more about how swings
work with all of the extra metrics we have. We
know how hard it is to change one. We know
how many like yeah, and then apparently you can just
change I think I think that you can change it.
I think one of the reasons why we're seeing so

(57:41):
many more stoplift guys is that stoplift is an easy change.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
It's it's not just so we talked about swing changes.
It encompasses things more than just like mechanical set up
in bat pass right, Like there's obviously like intent changes
where you want to meet the ball, when you want
to trigger, and things like that, timing devices, timing devices.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Yeah, And I think one of the things that we're
starting to find is that, like much like pitching is
you know, we talk about these pitchers who don't have
the rest stuff but then use seven things to create deception.
Everything and everything you know is built on other things.
The hitters have one thing until you talk about swings,

(58:24):
and suddenly they have seven things because they're doing all
this part of their swing mechanics in one thing falls
down and suddenly the other six don't.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Want to worry. This could be I don't know, like
you can I wonder if we're going to get to
the point where you know, you can look at like
stuff like the least point or arm angle be like, oh,
maybe his arm hurts a little bit. I wonder if
we're going to get that with hitters as well, like
maybe he's flattened out his swing because.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Well, and some of what Matt has talked about is
how he changed something with his shoulder with Tucker something
with shoulder. And my immediate just as you were, I
was crushing as you were talking, and I was like,
I wonder if his shoulders bothering. And it's like that's
just you know, not enough to not play, not even
enough that it's like this hurts. But it's like, oh,

(59:10):
that's like less comfortable than normal.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
And honestly, as an analyst, this is kind of nice, right,
This is this is not the number solving of anything
for us. This is detected area, right.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
I'm going to kind of whatever. But there's like so
many different things going involved with a swing and like
a swing path.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Well, and you know the answer is not to be
conclusive about it, right.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
It's like the investigation is fun, but any conclusion is
right there basically shouldn't be a strong conclusion.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Right exactly, which you know that's fine with me everything, but.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
A lot of people.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
Second, Robins wrote a piece he he every every quarter,
the Braves are compelled to uh to provide some information
about themselves. And since I'm the only team that does,
it means who is a financial line lost in his
first career, goes through and takes a look at it,
and basically the story here. Of course, I can't remember

(01:00:13):
we talked about this in the Poddel, right or not.
The brains are very proud of themselves. They came out
of a selling deadline. They bought typer Kenley, but otherwise
they came out of a selling deadline talking about how
they're the model of the model of baseball. They've been
wildly profitable, and they could have spent more if spending
more had made a difference, if they had managed to

(01:00:33):
put themselves in a position where it could have made
a difference.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah, they basically said, the team on the field has
failed our financial position. Yeah, right, I mean that is
essentially Look, honestly, that's not like I think. The way
I believe it's Terry mcwork speaks is like nails on
a chalkboard to me, like it sounds awful, But this

(01:00:57):
also is it's kind of better than our financial position
has failed our team on the field, right, Like it's
significantly better than the inverse to have your team say like, look,
we could have augmented our team just wasn't there. Then
the question is.

Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
There.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
I'm sure a lot of teams think this but aren't
required to put it in a document that is sent
out to and then.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
And then share.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Think one of what Mains talks about is like, this
is not something he has to say, yea, Like he
doesn't have to say that part of it. That you
can say things are good financially right without saying like
we were ready.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
To Look, everyone knows they weren't going to be buyers
at the deadline this year, Like it's that right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Well, so that right, there's some comfort in there. There's
some It's like offering to help a friend move after
they've already hired movers. Oh I would have helped Yeah no, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
I mean this is another example of what's best for
the twins, right. I think one part of the reason
why McGirk is so hard to listen to is that
he doesn't care that much about the product in the
field compared to what he cares about for his own job.
And so when when these guys start talking about dollars,
they do kind of forget their baseball team. I think, like,
this is this is what Kevin the Kevin Mather stuff,

(01:02:16):
Like Kevin Matther just got himself worked up in a
way where he's like, I'm the businessman right now in
a top business. And when they do that, they it's
this is what they sound like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Right. Business is leveraging your ability to promote someone to
take the get to offer them an undermarket contract.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Exactly. That's just good business, Like you should be they
should deserve credit for being a good businessman, right. They
forget that they're not supposed to be proud of this stuff.
And like, in a in a weird way, this is
good news for the Braves and the Braves fans in
the sense that this team is weird.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
So I wrote the The mid Sea's an Autopsy for them,
and I picked them mostly because I just hadn't thought
about the Ras in three months and wanted to like
dig in. Uh, but like they're an interesting team because
they're probably just gonna be fine next year. Like there's
it is. They've got basically half their offensive team just cratered, right,

(01:03:17):
and so the goal is to try and figure out,
like what caused that. The pitching sign is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Just you guys got hurt, even the guys who didn't
like Marcelo Zuna. Like he's just walking right as a zoon.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Is a weird case because it was in terrible in
the first half and then he's just walking like he
just decided to stop swinging. He's not chasing anymore. He
did the Acuna thing basically. I think he did it
last year too, it's much more so this. Yeah, he's
like up to a seventeen percent walk rate or something like.
It's ridiculous. He's underperforming like by expected stats quite a

(01:03:51):
bit on the power right, it's it. He will be fine.
He was also going to be somebody else's problem because
he's not coming back to Atlanta, because if you were
coming back to Atlanta, they would have signed him already, right,
Like that's the fun thing that the you know who
Atlanta wants to keep exactly and a person who doesn't
get a long term deal but they keep is has
now retired and it's Jesse And also they need those

(01:04:13):
DH spots for both like whichever catcher isn't hitting catching
that day and Jerks and Profar who apparently is like
one of the worst defensive players by metrics, like in
the recent memory in his limited time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Not to take this away from Atlanta, but I did.
I had someone ask me, what is up with have
you Have you noticed Tyler Freeman's defense? No, he's got
he obviously he's missed some time this year, right, minus
four d r P in the time he's played where Yeah,
And and he's got he was minus four last year

(01:04:45):
in more games but not even a full season. And
I think his d rs because this this came up
because Sam Miller posted about how many Rockies players were
were minus zero point five war I I think he
was using be rough but I don't know. And and
Tyler Freeman's been hitting well yeah, but is one of

(01:05:10):
the players who meets that threshold has been so bad anyway,
that's a departure from from Atlanta. I apologize, but it's
just like, yeah, wild.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
So so it's very funny that Riselasis has like, after
like very noticeably blowing up in the first half, has
been great. He's still closing, which is like, this is
how they acquired him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
But I just assumed he the Angels right after signing
with them, they panicked and traded him, and he's been
generally very good for them. Uh And I just assumed
they knocked him out of the closer spot because like,
oh no, they don't so bad, and so he's and
they were rewarded for it because he's been a perfect
closer for like two months. He's also all those wins

(01:05:51):
that they exactly eight saves eight for nine and save.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
They didn't need him last night when they went by
five after being down sick, not think so.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
So basically it just comes down to these four position players,
like it's it's Alby's, it's uh Nick Allen, it's Austin Riley,
and it's Michael Harris. And they all have different reasons
why they've been bad this year, and it's the question is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Like Harris, which one great since the death and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
The sort of well he has been hitting great. He's
like what was the number I think he has? Uh
two walks?

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Yeah, I mean Michael Harrish was.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Three walks in two hundred and sixty nine plate appearances.
Like that's that's more Michael Harris than is tenable for
Michael Harris. Like it's it's vibrating with Michael Harris.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
This is like, this is what's also what's happening to PCA,
who has action Michael Harris coating And.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
The thing is that Harris is still getting thrown strikes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, so boy, yet he got throw he got thrown
one last night.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
I know at some point somebody is going to figure out.
I want to do some research on this where guys
like do this and like there's you know how attendance
takes a year to laugh for. I feel like there's
a leg for when Pete pictures go, oh wait, this
guy will just swing it literally everything, and I feel
like that's coming. Uh So he's the to me, he's

(01:07:12):
the most worrisome one of the four. Albie's I'm more
high on because Albi's just does this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Yeah, I mean I wonder with him. He's had a
lot of injuries at this point too.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
He's also like it's seven million.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
I don't know. I mean, look, you you pick him up,
you pick I.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Think you can pick him up. They also have to
replace their short stop because Nick Allen is not it
like he's gonna say, but.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
The other reason you pick it up is because you
don't have anyone else. Yeah, they're already gonna know that
because they don't have a shortstop.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Yeah, Nick Allen, one of the best defensive players in baseball.
What if Taylor Walls were a little more Taylor Walls.
I think it's the which nobody should want. Yeah, and
then you got Austin Riley who's basically trying he's doing
he's trying to pull the ball to hook it on
a left field pole even though he has the power
to hit it to straightaway center. And I don't really

(01:08:05):
understand why he's doing this. He's just like trying to
pull fly balls constantly. And it's a couple you can
hit it four hundred and twenty feet, like, you're fine.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
It's been a couple seasons of kind of Yeah, it's
gradual decline, Like it's not he's not bad, it's not bad.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
He's just he's giving up zone contact when he hits
hard enough that he should be giving up zone contact.
He should not be selling out for power. He already
has the power. So weird, but I think that's the
most fixable of the four, if you know they want
to fix it. And then lastly, Joshu Rodriguez he wrote
an article about traject I assume it's trajectrajact machine tragic.

(01:08:45):
I mean having the K in there makes me want
to pronounce it tifarately. But basically he found that the
teams that use this device, which is basically a type
of pitching machine that better replicates both not just.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
I don't know if he included someone like the Phillies
who from Tim Jackson's previous writing on this, No, they
use something called an eye pitch, but it's the same,
So I don't know if he included them in the
in the teams that use it or not.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
But yeah, and this has been something like I've been
wondering about this since I was a kid, Like why
did why did? Why did hitters do batting practice on
pitches they're going to see in the game. Yeah, it's
always been weird.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Well we had I can go back to Brandon Golowski
for us about how there should be like practice pitchers
which are recently. Go get Jesse Chavez and have him
throw real batting practice. Now, no, he can't do Spencer Stryder, Right,
he can't do a Spencer Strider imitation. But he can, right,

(01:09:44):
he can throw a real curveball right and he can
throw you know, he can throw it to locations that
pitchers are going to try and throw it to right,
not just chuck it over the plate, that kind of it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
So what Roderick has found is that the teams that
do use this device, we weirdly, are more used to
the pitchers they're gonna see, and so they're the three
the third time through the order penalty is much more
pronounced because they're And.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Also there's an advantage first and second time. It's not
as big. Yeah, exactly, it's not as big, but there
is an advantage of the first and second time.

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
But you are basically seeing a guy for the second
time when you're seeing him for the first time because
you've already seen him in practice.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
And again, that's it. Tim Tim wrote about that for us.
He talked to Kyle Schwarber and some of the other
Phillies about the eye pitch, and like I think he said,
when your second appearance against someone is actually your fourth, right, Like,
that's kind of the idea and.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
Just seems an easy one.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
It's yeah, it does, and it's not quite that dramatic,
right that the second looks like the third, but the
third looks like the fourth basically is more of it. Yeah, right,
and and it honestly pairs with I saw Stephen Sutton
Brown posting something. This is not an article, it's just
just on Blue Sky. But like he's he's looking at

(01:10:55):
some of the bat tracking metrics and and stuff like that.
And and hitters are better at matching their swing planes
two pitches, right, Yeah, the more the more they're familiar
with the second and third time through the order. They
continually that he tracked the essentially the miss distance I
think from or like how much guys aren't squaring it

(01:11:17):
up by and they they square it up significantly more. Again,
this is all stuff. This isn't new, but it's new
information that confirms the third time through the order penalty
and and the ways in which guys are dewy. And
I thought it was really interesting. Yeah. Yeah, there's a

(01:11:39):
good piece from Josh, and hopefully we get something from
Steven down the line because that that looked interesting as well.
We can go to our fourth segment around the horn.
We've got some call ups Jeff, yep and Casey will
be up finally for you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
It's very weird, Like I mean, it's whatever they're not
short on out exactly, and it's he's going to get
the debut in Canada. He's from Canada.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
I guess he's already on the forty.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
He's already on the forty. Like look, he's spent basically
two full seasons in Triple A. At this point, he
pretty much is what he is. So this is Miguel
and Maya exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Off the I L played one game, is going back
on the I L.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
I mean, is a catcher and on in case he
is a corner outfielder.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Yeah, they well, I guess they've been They d h
one of their outfielders sometimes and they by Asteros is
going to catch, you know, be the second catcher. He's
been dhing some sure, so I guess you make him
the second catcher and you have another spot for a hit.
I mean, look, look, what I would say is it's

(01:12:49):
a nice luxury to have actual hitters to come off
your bench. You know a lot of teams just have
their backups who are not great hitters, like their glove
first guys, and they have an actual hitter. But yeah,
I'm not sure I completely understand that the other one
is Nolan McLain.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Yeah, Nolan mclan will be starting Saturday. He's taking Frankie
Montoss's rotation. Yes, they currently have Frankie Montas and Paul
Blackburn in the bullten. It's a very very good, very
good setup. I mean, I think Blackburn's going to get DFA.
It is the move for uh McLean on Saturday. Is Yeah.

(01:13:30):
He throws hard without particularly good fastball shape and might
have the best breaking ball in the miners.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
It was a two way guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
I mean, this is a two way guy at Oklahoma State.
I was really hitting. Yeah, I mean he was hitting
up until double A. He got a double A last
year as a pitcher before and like he it's he's
like as funny as a two way guy because it's
the ball very hard, but it was running like strikeout
rates and fellow lighters.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
But he is a very good It was like plausible
as a two way guy, but also not right, like
you you could sketch.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
It out, you cagificant right. And he was primarily a
hitter at Oklahoma State, like he didn't much.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
I guess the better way to say it is like
he's a better hitter than most two way like he's
a he's better at and it's not a better way
to say it. I can't say it. Yeah, I mean
just absolutely flying through the minor stuff for him, and
and kind of left Brandon sprut who obviously struggled in

(01:14:30):
the first half, but it seemed like he was an option.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
For this better recently and I'm still not super sold
on that working as a starter. I mean, look, McLain
has relief markers as well. The fastball shape isn't great.
You know, he throws ninety five ish. They've added a
sinker in there, which is okay. You know, the fastball
shape is not good. He just threw from a fairly
low release point.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
This is this is McLean.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Yeah, this is mcclaim. And look, the sweeper is a monster.
And it's like I do wonder about sort of these sweepers,
Like he has some other stuff behind it. His curves
quite good, even though doesn't throw it much. There's a cutter.
But they do wonder out these like sweeper Chase guys,
like how much they can actually get mm hmm chase
as a as a major leaguer. But there's a lot
upside here them as well. Find out given the state

(01:15:11):
of the rotation yep.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
In other news, we'll run through some injuries. Josh Hater
lands on the I l with the show.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
After we talked right about how good the.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
Show.

Speaker 3 (01:15:24):
Yeah, apparently yesterday, Uh, the spot have provided a vague
yet ominous update. According to LB, that's just every astros
injury exactly. Uh he you know, weird, weird that an
astro's injury might be worse than originally suspected.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
He is getting a second opinion on his shoulder and
he will definitely be missing more than the minimum ll
not good, not good.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
Yeah, we mentioned in the ohen Casey call up it's
uh amaya is the move there? Back on the ile
Zach Eflin out for the year. The news here is
he's interested in returning to Baltimore. And I guess that
is news because, like you experienced this year in Baltimore.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Yeah, maybe he really wants a one year, twelve million
dollar contract next year.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
I told pretty much everyone that we've had a conversation about.
I told him I love this place, I'd love to
be here. He can talk, he can call Cedric Mullens
and see how Cedric Mullens wanted to stay in Baltimore
his whole career. Two Yeah, we'll see, we'll see. I mean,
the Oriols do need more pictures.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
They might, They're gonna need someone, yeah for sure. And
Shane McClanahan is honestly like there's an article. I honestly
don't know if we talked about this already. I feel
like Shane mcclanan is out for the year four times
in a single year. But he has definitely done.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
He has. He apparently just did not bounce back from
his latest rehab. It's now been two full years.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
He may not right, And the Braves.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Carlos Carrasco yes goes on the six nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
Yeah, and all right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
That brings us to our game, bring us to our game.
We got a new one. We'll see how this goes. Uh,
this is gonna be always what were What I'm gonna
do is I'm going to We're gonna take turns. It's
gonna be so this is basically based on name that tune.
But Unlis, we can't just do you know, I'm having

(01:17:27):
you guys pick the number and then guessing how many
whether you recognize the song. So what I'm gonna do
is I'm gonna name players from a roster on a
on a team, and you're gonna each get turns. After
each name, one of you will get to guess what
team you think it was?

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Year and team?

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Okay, the year, yeah, but you'll just keep getting guesses
until somebody gets all right, So Craig, you're gonna go first,
and I'm going to give you the name Gabe Kapler.
All right, you can guess, all right, number?

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Wait a minute, if I guess you might.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
Everybody you get, you get one guess per player.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
Okay, no, constantly, right, do you confirm anything at any point?

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
No, I'm not going to confirm unless you get it right,
because I would that would be giving your information to
your opponents.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
Why I'm curious so strategically, yeah, I don't. I don't
know the year. The years here are going to screw me,
so I don't. It's like Red Sox are raised. I guess,
but I don't. Was he on the two thousand and
four Red Sox? I don't know two thousand and six
Red Sox?

Speaker 3 (01:18:39):
I don't know six Red Sox is incorrect, Jeff Kevin.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Mallar Okay, so it's Boston, uh, two thousand? When the
fuck was he in Boston? Two thousand and eight Red Sox.

Speaker 3 (01:18:56):
Uh, Craig Brian Daback.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
There, Okay, thousand and five Red Sox.

Speaker 3 (01:19:09):
Jeff Ellis Burks w.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
And so did he come back to the Red Sox
because the Red Sox Rocky is I remember like he
went to the Rockies in ninety four, because I remember
you're writing about it for the Did Gabe Kapler play baseball?

(01:19:39):
I'm gonna say two thousand and one Red Sox.

Speaker 3 (01:19:43):
Craig, Tim Wakefield.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
At all, two thousand and four Red Sox, two thousand
Red Soxes almost did.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
It was, of course the year that they won the
World Series first time birthday.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
I've just decided I'm just gonna keep going back.

Speaker 3 (01:20:03):
That was kind of the goal of the Tim Wakefield thing,
is just like keep going guys, all right, So one
point for Craig, next one we're gonna do. All right, Jeff,
you go first, and we're gonna go with Lewis Brinson.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
Okay, I do. Also, I just if I had said
two thousand and four Red Sox just off gave Kapler,
that would have.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
Been so good. I was waiting for you to do it,
and I was so close, so.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
Close to.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
Twenty nineteen Marlins.

Speaker 3 (01:20:32):
Let's see Craig Daniel Castano.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
Oh so it is the Marlins.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
Oh yeah, uh two thousand, When did he two thousand
sixteen Marlins? Is that way too early? I don't I
don't know when it was too early anymore?

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
Uh, Jeff Jonathan dr.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
Two thousand, twenty one Marlins.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Craig Garrett Cooper, twenty twenty two Marlins, Jeff.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Six of Sanchez, twenty twenty Marlins.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
That's correct.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
I almost been twenty twenty when I said twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
But yeah, I thought about saying twenty twenty, and then
I went the other direction for.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
Twenty twenty Marlins, the first time they made the playoffs
in seventeen years. All right, number three, we're gonna do
five of these. Let's go with Craig. You're gonna start,
and we're gonna say Storm Davis.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
Or Craig.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
You knew we were gonna get one of these. A right, Jeff,
We're gonna do Eric.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
Plunk nineteen fucking Eric Plus nineteen eighty eight, Tigers.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
Craig, Mike Moore.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
Pass Oh no, Jeff Ken.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
Phelps nineteen ninety Rangers, Gregers a.

Speaker 3 (01:22:21):
Tiger Craig honeycut's.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
I think it's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:22:27):
So it's.

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
Nineteen ninety two Rangers.

Speaker 3 (01:22:33):
Jeff Felix. Felix ose, it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Doesn't help me when David signed that contractmember, I had his.
I had his like when I was really young, I
had his twenty win season baseball card. When did he
sign that contract? Eighty nine Rangers, h Craig.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
Geene Nilsson.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
That doesn't help me at all. Ninety one Rangers, Jeff said,
ninety right earlier.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
Yeah, he did ninety one Rangers, his Mariners, Jeff Mike Diego.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
That doesn't help I don't know a nineteen ninety three Mariners. Oh,
it set up.

Speaker 3 (01:23:19):
Craig stan Hobber Stander.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
Er help me. It's just I don't know. I'm just
gonna keep saying Rangers teams. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:23:28):
Ninety three Rangers, all right, Jeff Dave Parker, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
So it's probably earlier. Christ Stan Havier, Yeah, I mean
these guys all played for like seven teams. Uh, it's

(01:24:00):
like nineteen ninety Reds or something, picking famous teams.

Speaker 3 (01:24:06):
So Craig Dave Stewart.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
Eighty uh eighty nine, A's that's correct.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
I forgot Davis pitch for the A's to yea.

Speaker 3 (01:24:29):
World Series winning nineteen eighty nine Athletics. I think we
can all agree. No one thought I was gonna, well
give it to you guys. Hadn't gotten the right year
or the right team. Yeah, yeah, well I thought the
odds were pretty low. Good job, Greg, you're in your head.
We got two more.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
Let's not say a good job. That was good job
the way I will tell you, I take it, But
I'm not going to accept the compliment.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
When you're talking said what I was thinking like ninety
two Blue Jays, like that's where I.

Speaker 3 (01:24:57):
Think he was on the Rangers.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
But honestly, the part of it that I well, so
Parker obviously you get Parker and Dan Stewart and it's like, okay,
you can come together. But like part of it was
I think I had read about It's like Steve wrote
recently and mentioned Eric Plunk or something like that, and
I was like, oh, so, like I think and I
think it was about like who the Yankees were playing

(01:25:19):
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:25:20):
And I was like, oh, okay, part of that Ricky
Anderson trade.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Yeah right, And I was like, okay, right exactly, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
All right, Jeff, you're first on this one. We are
going to start with. This one's actually gonna be tougher.
Let's start with Brandon McCarthy. Oh boy, okay, Brandon McCarthy,
Brandon okay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
Two thousand and fifteen Dodgers.

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
All right, Uh, Craig won your Rebay.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
Yeah, white Sox, I guess, twenty seventeen Dodgers, all right?

Speaker 3 (01:26:02):
Uh, Jeff Jermaine die.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
Whoa, whoa, It's okay. Let's take a step back, like.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
Mhm, so what do we have so far?

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
We have McCarthy, Brandon McCarthy, won your die.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
Your main die.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
I don't think wonder you was ever on the a
is because that's like where my brain was going. I
think there's no two thousand and ten white.

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
Socks, Craig Freddy Garcia, very white, very eight white sox.
Jeff uh John Garland.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
Just doesn't clarify years I got.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
Is this two thousand five white sox?

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
It is famous.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
I didn't think famous teams. I didn't think McCarthy got
that up that early, but he was.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
Well, that's why I was like going back, but I
couldn't get to two thousand and five.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
And yeah I could. I was trying to think of
White Sox, like there are no good White Sox two
thousand and five and twenty twenties.

Speaker 3 (01:27:21):
All right, so we're gonna do our final. This is
the time breaker, the final one. Okay, Craig, you go first,
and we're gonna start with let's see, let's go with
Mark Redmond.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
Two and three Marlins.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
Uh, Jeff Steve Finley.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
Two thousand and one Diamondbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:27:52):
Yeah, oh it's not Craig. Oh, uh, Seth Smith, it's
one of the.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Uh two thousand four A's Jeff, La Troy Hawkins makes sense?

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Oh, come on two thousand, two thousand and seven Rockies.

Speaker 3 (01:28:28):
You are correct, Jeff, congratulations.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
La Troy Hawkins.

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
Yeah, well, I know, I'll be honest, I don't know
what happened to me.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
I just I know set came up with the Rockies.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
And obviously that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
And I remember I was on that team.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
You said, Seth Smith, and my head just said as yeah,
I was trying to think of a good I don't
like it didn't make any sense, but.

Speaker 3 (01:28:53):
All right, we'll get it on.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
La Troy Hawkins, Well well done, Jeff uh Saldan, Yeah,
good game. Try to mix up not famous teams. I
promise you don't do famous teams. It's like much harder.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
Power is much harder, right, much harder. Yeah, I was trying.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
Getting the thing is.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
Getting the team is fairly easy, Getting the year is hard.
So I tried to pick the teams where the year
was somewhat iconic.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
Okay, yeah, so yeah it could go south real yeah yeah,
yeah you said that, and you got the tooth the
nineteen so yeah, by by real process of elimination, like.

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
Doing like the twenty thirteen rays or something could be
just a night.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
Oh yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:36):
Thank you both for co hosting this episode. Thank you
to our listeners for tuning in to another episode of
five and Dive brought to you by the Baseball Perspective
podcast Network. You can get in touch with the show
at five and Dive at Baseball perspectives dot com or
in the comments on our posts or on social media.
We are wherever you get your podcasts. Search for Baseball

(01:29:57):
Perspectives Podcast Network and we'll be in that feed. Thank
you you again. We'll see you next week.

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