Five and Dive, Episode 485: You'll Need Those Fingers for Crossing

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to episode four eighty five of five and Dive.
It is Thursday, August twenty first, I am your host,
Greig Goldstone, joined as usual by Patrick Depute and Jeffrey
pattern Astro. What do we got for banter today?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
So it's my kids first week in kindergarten. We be
center off on Monday. I think I probably mentioned that
we're recording on Monday. Picture it's been going fine. I'm
still navigating the pick up and drop offline. It's gonna
take me some time. I was going to take you
the rest of your the rest of my life. Yeah,

(00:47):
what I so two things. What I don't understand is
so we pick her up the first day, it's a
little bit of a madhouse, and I'm like, I'll get
there ten or fifteen minutes earlier Tuesday, and just like whatever,
I'll call around on my phone in the car and
they see mine and it's still like just like, how

(01:08):
like people get there, must be getting there hours. Yeah,
the parking lot clears out in twenty minutes, so like
you're not saving time time right of your own time
on any of.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Those Well that's efficient that the twenty minutes twenty minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, I was like we were in the last cars
out on Tuesday and it was like about twenty minutes.
It's like a pretty good system.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, I don't remember where it was, but I saw,
I like somewhere local. I swear I I saw like
someone like the people who are first in line, like
just go sit there.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, I don't like. I mean, I guess you want
to take like your zoom calls or whatever and write
whatever work like cities awful anyway, so just run it.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Works in their car or whatever, which But that seems horrible.
Every time I've ever thought, oh, I'll just do whatever
in the car, even.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
If it's we were running a little late this morning,
like it kind of sucks. The lines are a little longer,
and you feel a little more stressed, like at the
end of the day whatever. Yeah, and like I get it.
I just you know, I sit here and watch Brewers
Prospect video all day and then just go pick her up.
Like it's not.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Well, I understand that stuff, but I guess I guess
my point is, like I don't know, I just like
people who bring the laptop in the car and sit
in the car and work. Like every time I've even
thought like, oh, I'll just eat in the car even
if I'm not driving. I'm like, this is a horrible experience.
This is the this is I've done something wrong?

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Here is that?

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Patrick?

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Do you have any any thought.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
That was not my actual banter? My actual banter? Go ahead,
you can talk about more experience here than I do.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
No, I just want to add that I feel like
every article should, every every piece of writing you do
that goes is published, should have a little button that
shows where you and under what conditions so people can
can adjust for era. Like, just talking about this takes
me back to my strip. Mall take one dough days
of having to sit in a car at like six

(03:11):
in the evening in the winter while my kid's in
a take one do place that has room for four
people to sit while thirty kids are practicing. And just
like any if I made any competent writing in that situation,
I deserve so much credit for it. Anyway, keep going.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
But so they say, she's having fun, it's going well.
So Monday we get her home and she talks about
what she had for lunch, like I packed you a lunch,
but no, no, no, She's like, I know, I went
to the lunch room and just like she just ordered
her on lunch even though I packed her at lunch,
So I now have to pay for that lunch. It's

(03:50):
on our balance. But she's like she ordered like mazzarella
sticks and carrot and carrots and ranch dressing. So if
you had any doubt that this was my child, just
like ditching your lunch to order Monzarelli sticks, should probably
put that to bed.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, I will tell you. I I got an email
from the So my kid has not started kindergarten yet,
that's that's next week. But uh, I just got an
email from a place called school cash Online and it
was like this.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Was like I messaged my mother like I'm from indeed,
I'm from school cash Online. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Correct. I messaged my mother, who who was a county
this very county principle for of elementary schools for a
long time, and I was like is this real? Like
are you aware of this? Because I was like I'm not.
It's just like click here and create an account, and
I'm like, this is a fucking just school cash online
as a scale cash online. Yeah, it's too direct. Uh.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, I did see Riley's Blue Sky thing about like
the amount of it we we did get like multiple
messages about her school lunch balance through various formats.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
She paid for it, text and app up. Yeah, and
it's the same one every like I. They're out of control. Yeah, Patrick,
do you have something?

Speaker 3 (05:18):
No? No, nothing added this And we all we all know,
we all know deep in our hearts how how flawed
messaging systems are for schools. There are seven places with
seven different logins with seven passwords, uh, some of which
you have to log in into at the same time
because they have alternating words. They have to piece them
together like a rebus to find out what's going on
with at your school.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I have a very small thing that I honestly might
have brought brought up before. We've been doing this for
so long that I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
You could have saved these messages, mister Dubuke. I gave
you all the clues.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, I don't know which uh quibbles I've brought up
from my life that this is just completely not important
at all. But I'm curious. Have I asked you guys,
like how how you or the people in your family
open cereal?

Speaker 2 (06:08):
I don't think that's coming. I mean, we've done almost
five hundred episodes.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
I don't remember out of the middle, like so well,
so okay, you obviously you open the box, but then
there's the bag within the box. My my wife whom
I love, cuts the corner of the bag.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, I know there's people that do that.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
But and it every time I encounter a bag that
a box of cereal that she's gotten to first, it
is like.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
It's not going to stay rolled up.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
It tears me down anew so like, I don't know
what to do. I just I don't know how people
walk around this earth functioning like I open the middle
and and and and open yeah, and I and I
spread the whole meeting. But you know you're doing for
it from either side.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
What you can then roll the thing back up to
keep it like it doesn't actually keep it from going
stale faster.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
But I'll be honest, I don't if I have cereal
that I'm eating, I'm not it's not gonna get still like.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
I mean, you can get like you could get like
the little like like we have.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
I think if you're actually worried about freshness with your cereal,
you should invest in those. And that's fine, But if
you're just gonna leave it in the box. If you
want to roll it, that's fine. I have no issue
with that. I don't do it, but I have no
issue with it. But but she claims that my version
exposes it to it's going to.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
There's more of a hole.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, there's more of a hole, and it's it's more
air and that's a problem. And I I just I can't.
I don't know how to I open it up and
it's just one corner is cut and I.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
It's shake it to get it to come out like
out of.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
The bag slash box in a normal It's so frustrating.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Anyway, there's such an obvious solution for this. All you
have to do is just open every single box of
cereal as soon as I have toopen pre open them,
and then.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Just will get still because like when it's the kids,
they don't have as much, and I don't eat, like
I'm not eating it. But then sometimes I'm like searching
for something I want, you know what I mean, Like I, yeah, yes,
I need to be the first one into the box
every time, but but I go in the store just
this is aw anyway, that's it. I don't, I don't

(08:27):
if I'm sure there are no other ways to open
I do. I hope there are no other ways to
open Cereal. But I just I can't believe this is
what I It blows my mind every time. That's all
I've got. Let's go into our first segment, shall we.
It's fraud Watch, folks.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
We have time for all these.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
We have the uh we we got a message from Jeff.
Was it yesterday or yeah, it was yesterday. It's just
the Mariners are are back on fraudwak Day.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
But yesterday I guess, yeah, there were many numbers of opportunities.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Buddy, they never left.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Well, I mean they were good after the deadline, right
like they and now they're just the Mariners again.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
But it's not just about being good. Is that you
can be You can still be a fraud well winning.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
True, they're not winning.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
They're not winning.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
No one's winning. Somehow it feels like twenty second teams
are losing at the same time.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, well, so this is about the the Al West,
not just the Mariners, because while while the Mariners have
been losing five in a row, the Asters have been
losing four in a row.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Part of it, look, look, the Orioles are six and
four in the last ten, the Athletics seven and three,
the Rockies seven and three, Braves, E, those don't count
right now, those don't count, and.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
So I do have to issue a correction. Okay, I
was probably a little I forgot what happened on Monday
show when the Dodgers go to Coursefield, and I just
I implied that they were just going to cruise this week.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
And boy, how they do not do that. But sometimes
sometimes you face the guy I've never heard of and
just get absolutely shut down, or Gordon.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
But since those teams don't count, it like the rest
of the league is losing. The only good team, the
only decent team that's actually winning. The Yankees and Royals
are basically everybody else is six. Phillies have won. It's
six and four, but they've won for they won four
in a row.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Sure, yeah, because they played the Mariners.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
To your point, Patrick, the Braves are also eaten too
in the last ten. And it's just like they don't
do those.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Those wins just evaporate into the ether. They just didn't happen. Yeah,
the losses happened and the wins did not.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, and somehow the you know, the Yankees, obviously they've
gained some ground, but still four back of Toronto. So
it's it's not that it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Also the Tigers are eaten too, but that doesn't matter either,
Like those wins don't count either, right.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Uh So the Mariner have lost five straight. They lost two,
what two of three right to the next the last
two of them, so then all three to the Phillies,
most recently getting absolutely shellacked by jezus Lozardo.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Salado.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah it was.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
I was gonna say it was eleven to two, but
it was also like three to two in the sixth,
like it was.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Not that's been happening in these games against the Phillies.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
No, I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but I'm just saying,
like it wasn't a blowout from from the first pitch.
But speaking of the first pitch, Louis Castillo as a
starter sitting ninety three.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
You no, like great he got he got out of
it to keep it three two, but he did not
look great, you know, Loan Logan Gilbert had the George
Kirby start that we talked about on Monday. Like, and
the Phillies lineup isn't bad. They can do they can
do that they can do this, but it's not great either.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
I mean they.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Traded for Harrison Bader at the deadline to like upgrade
their lineup.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
So this is not Max Coupler series. Yeah, off of
off of Castillo. You know, I hard. I find it
hard a little bit to get worked up. This is
a lot of what Luis Castillo has been. I guess
it's not as good on the process front, but like
he's got a three five ERA. He had a three
six ERA last year. Uh, he struck out a bat

(12:28):
or more per inning last year.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I mean the thing about the Mariners has been their
pitching actually hasn't been outside of Brian wu and he
hasn't been as great or as healthy as it was
last year.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
There, I'm wondering. I guess how much of this is
is somewhat of a It seems like T Mobile is
playing different, right, so some of like on a surface level,
the pitching has been worse than the hitting has been better.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Right, Sure the hitting has not been good.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
How much of that is is a park issue? Is?
I guess my question I don't have an answer to that.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Maybe it's not. I don't know. I could look it
up in the splits leader board, but uh yeah, it's
it's like you wonder how much of this is just
kind of overwork. Like it feels like, I mean, Gilbert
has become one of the you know, the biggest work

(13:23):
horses in baseball, and like that's not something you would
have thought when he was young, Like he didn't have
any individual characteristics that thought, oh, this guy's going to
be a two ernating guy. Brian Wu, like Wu has
always been like can he get a hundred? And of
course they're they're getting the best possible outcome out of him. Yeah, yeah,

(13:44):
I don't know. It's just you look at teams like
I was going through for one of my pieces last
week and just kind of looking historically at teams with
like great runs, and you what you find is that
there's just a year where all the guys that you love,
like like for your for the franchise you love, Like
I was looking at these Yankees teams and like, oh,
Whitey Ford just had had a real bad year one year.

(14:07):
It's like he still threw the same number of innings,
just like clearly didn't have it. And it feels like
that's kind of without any particular reason. Castillo is Castillo, like,
this is what he is now, he is a number
three pitcher. I think Gilbert and Kirby, I think this
is just gonna It's just happened to. It happened to
both have bad years, and the timing is not great

(14:29):
for the Mariners because they really need the good version
of those guys. But I don't know, I don't nothing
strikes me as like something to take away from this
other than just like career sequencing, I guess yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Can I also just say on the on the front
of guys, you wouldn't expect to be throwing a ton
of inniings necessarily this this is a wild year on
that front. Like, Okay, I went and looked up who's
leading the league in innings pitched. It's Logan Webb not a surprise, yeah,
Garret Chris second place, tied with Errek's Schoobel. Now Errek

(15:04):
Scooble not a surprise at this point, but very frequently
injured coming up as a pro right, I mean, like
in his minor earleague career, stuff like that. Christopher Sanchez
also missed a fair amount of time early in his career.
Robbie Ray, Robbie raised Robbie Ray, Brian Wu is number nine.

(15:27):
That's like half the top ten are guys that were
frequently injured over you know, in the early parts of
their career. You know, Crichet injured and I mean just
never fully built up. It's just surprising to me. It's
like a lot of it's a lot of those guys. Also,
they all lefty, all of them are lefties except for Wu. Yeah,

(15:50):
obviously not Web, but I'm talking about the subset of
guys we're talking about. Just I don't know, kind of
interesting to me anyway. I don't know. I mean, this
is I don't know what else to say about the
Mariners at this point.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
This is this is the Mariners hurt them to.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Know that that is the true gift here, right.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
The Red Sox have not been good either, Like there's
the Guardians have been bad. It just it feels like
the entire American League, other than the Kansas City and
New York the city.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Is and what Kansas I guess we're gonna talk about
the wildcard later, but Kansas City is is at least threatening, right,
They're around, Yeah, they're the Guardians. We'll get to that.
I guess. I don't do we have anything else we
want to say about the Astros.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Like, I mean, guys are good, but like the Astros
might like I don't know what. The Astros have just
been all over the place this year, Yeah, but all
over the place also between like ten and twenty games,
over five hundred.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
So, but they had a shrimp versus the Tigers. Yeah,
I mean, look, it's on the one hand, it's like
when you're the Astros and and you're in a little
bit of a rut, you can't afford to lose your
Hunter Brown uh, yeah, start, and he had a great start.
On the flip side of that, they were facing terrek'scooble,
and like you're not necessarily expected to win when you

(17:24):
face trekschooble. So that's kind of a toss up. It's
just one of those you look at their pitching and
they they the fact that they were here. They were
riding some some nice runs from Colton Gordon yeah, and
Brandon Walter and and guys like that, and you know,

(17:44):
I don't know that it's a surprise that you start
running out of those, you know from traded Yeah, I mean,
I know, I know they traded Gusto, But like you know,
it's a lot of those guys, and at some point
it's it's not as prize that you're not going to
win some of those games. Now, it's not good that
they're all bunched together. But and then you lose your

(18:07):
Hunter Brown start, you get a Fromer, you know, Clunker
or something in there, and it's not hard to see
why how you can lose, you know, a bunch in
a row. It's also, you know, this this offense is
just not particularly They.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Got Jemmy Payinna back and he's been good.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
No, it's he's been for them, has been great, but
he's replacing the soak Parentis who was one of their
four good hitters.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Right, So Taylor Trommel was starting a lot and it
is now her.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Okay, speaking of which I sent it, I meant to
send it to both of you, but I think I
only sent.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
It to Patrick.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Did you see the catch he made along the foul line?

Speaker 3 (18:48):
I said, so, I said.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Said it was better than the young Hulei catch.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
No, I said, that was a Rockies. Uh. Literally the
day we had that conversation, caught a ball took to
end the game and earned his first career save. It
was Mahea, I think with the Rockies, and we were
talking about it because it was like, oh, if there's
a safety, that's a great catch or whatever. He's freaking

(19:15):
got debcked by his own teammate mid catch and held on.
Uh And Treuml had had a catch where he wasn't.
He landed flat on his back, looked like he was
hit mid air. It was honestly just as good as
the Lee catch.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
In mind, I described it as an invisible muskox.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, it's someone someone undercut him mid jump or what
it was. And he held on and look it wasn't
of his own doing, just like Lee's was. I don't
think it's anywhere. I thought it was just as valid. No,
but I guess you know, again, like this the Astros,
if you look at just by Opius plus, they have
four regulars who are producing, you know, above average. It's

(19:59):
paying Altuve, Jake Myers, and then you sub in Korea
for for Peretis and and look Ramon ramone Arius has
done fine in his limited time there. But like it's
just not a deep lineup. And you pair that with
you have Fromber and Hunter Brown and a bunch of
guys and yeah, I don't. This isn't that surprising to me.

(20:24):
It's obviously gonna burn that as as the Mariners lose,
like they they're doing their timing this so they can't
even gain ground. But you'd like to bank those games.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
He would, especially at this point in the season, right, But.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Pona still gives the marriage to seventy thirty on the
division that I think. I know, I do think the
Marriags are probably the better team, although they you think
they would have been last week too, and yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's hard to get excited about it.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I mean, I guess I think they're better than like
Houston thought that they thought Houston was better. It was close,
but I feel like Houston ahead of them at the
beginning of the season. I guess Seattle's actually added more
at the deadline than Houston.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Do I think any of these teams escape the first round?

Speaker 1 (21:13):
No?

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Really, I mean once you get in whatever.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, I think I think we're geting. I think we're
heading towards the Mariners. One one hosted playoff game special
just like twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
But well it won't be because I was going to
say the game.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Oh that's right, Yeah, they'd have to bit through the
first round.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, well these two teams might literally play each other
in the first round at this rate.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
So well, oh you think Boston.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Will be three secs because somebody has to win the division?

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Right? Sorry? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Do I whoever it is whoever doesn't win division? Are
they holding off Kansas City at this point?

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I think so?

Speaker 2 (21:50):
I think so. But like Kansas Kansas City, just Kansas
City really could have used that game against Texas. Their
pen did not, Yeah, did not hold up, which, well
you know it's Againsas City bullpen.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
And we talked about the Astros offense and like the
Royals offense is using a lot of Adam Fraser.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yes, oh yeah, they bring Adam Fraser back so they
could use me.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
It's worked technically. Kis actually hit really well for the
Royals as well. But like, I don't know, I.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Have the pitching that at least like the Astros that
honestly doesn't.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
It doesn't surprise me that your strum has been fine,
but it's the way that he's been fine. He's hit
for four homers as a Royal. Yeah, fifteen games. That
is surprising.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, the first time anybody say four home runs and
fifteen games as a royal. Yeah, like if the Royals
head Bubach and you know Reagan's like Reagans.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, yeah, I can see the pitch well, but yeah,
outpitch is fit.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Uh and Lougo and walk Up been good fun. But yeah,
it does it does seem I don't know. I struggle
to struggle to see it for them too. All right,
shall we move on to our next segment Chicago? We
also have a fracture borrowing a page from the Astros playbook,

(23:15):
I mean almost.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
It's a different part of the body, different.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Part of the body, but the same player, same player,
same beam, Kyle. When sequels don't have any ideas and
they just kind of like that, this feels like a
Diehard Too situation where it's just like, all right, let's
just change the setting and have the same movie.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
People love Diehard Too?

Speaker 3 (23:34):
I get they they loved I Heard one. Yeah, why
wouldn't they love Die Heard two? It's the same film.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah. Uh So, Kyle Talker has been in a pretty
big slump of late we I believe we touched on it.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Matt Drew Blood.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Wrote something about how he's changing He's changed his uh
his swing plane as it's flattened out.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
He's not hitting.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
I mean, I was gonna say he's not hitting for
any power. He's not hitting at all. He's he is
walking quite a bit. He's he's become more passive at
the plate. But it's it was revealed as he sat
in the So he played the first game of what
was supposed to be a doubleheader versus Milwaukee.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
This was this is a.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Five games in four days situation against Milwaukee. Then the
the second game got rained out. Then he sat both
games of the doubleheader and yesterday, and it was revealed
yesterday that when they when they did imaging on him
in June, they identified that he had a fracture in

(24:40):
his in his ring finger right I believe his his
right ring finger, and he's a left handed hitter. He's
just been playing through this. And on the one hand,
he hit three eleven four, O four five, seven, the
eight in June. The imaging was done or the injury

(25:01):
happened June first right sliding into second base. He was
great in June. Then he's hit one two thirty five,
which is just atrocious, especially when you're hitting at the
top and or middle of a lineup and it's coincided

(25:21):
a lot with the Cubs tails even if it's on
tailspin the Cubs, I don't know, slow slowed progress, I
don't know, Patrick.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
I think you assembled these.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
You you know the average eggs of velocity dropped three
and a half miles per hour from June. Yeah, bats
bat speed a mile, you know, a tick and a half.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, And then you, you and somebody else, but William
Contraras on the duck and looking looking at Contreras, if
you look at his bad speed, it was.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Because it's reverse. He's finally healthy. So so yeah, the
reason you have here, like why do we let players
decide on this stuff? And I brought up I mentioned
this online, Like everyone is pretty fricking pissed at the Cubs,
and and look, I think the fact that it's Tucker
and he had the shing contusion that turned out to
be a fracture. Now he didn't play through that, but

(26:19):
they said it was going to be like three weeks,
and it was three plus months in Houston, So I
think that's exacerbating things here. But like, everyone's really kind
of annoyed at at the Cubs, especially Cubs fans for
letting him kind of just struggle through this, but I
I you know, I was thinking about it. I was like,
you know, William Contreras, who is a catcher, right, And

(26:44):
it was on his catching hand that was I guess
the middle finger on his catching hand that they just
let him play with.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
That he had more like outfield options at the time,
the Brewers had, like you could have let him fit
for three weeks and hey Moore called up in casey
earlier and yeah, you know, patch this together better than
the Brewers could have with they.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
They also have Kevin L.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Condred I have.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
I know they have out I know they have options.
I did enjoy the I always pointed out on Twitter
or wherever, They're like, well, we've got a pretty good
outfield group and in case he's got to like force
his way in, And they actually posted the stats from
set outfield group. Fince, Yeah, traded slugged under four hundred. Like,

(27:30):
I guess they're paying him a lot of money and
and like you probably want to bet on him to
be better than that down in the stretch and one
case in case, he's been pretty good since he's been up.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I was gonna say they So the Cubs lost the
first game and which Tucker played. Yeah, and then case
and three straight and Casey has been important in those games.
He's he's got picked up his first hit, he's driven
and runs. Uh he got on base ahead of Michael
Bush's uh basis clearing double.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
That how it helped in one of the doubleheader games,
I think to the first one.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, you know, and look like it's not He also,
I would not struck out at at if Freddie Peraltza
change up. That was never a strike and in a
basis loaded situation in in the that was the game
that the Cubs lost. So he did play in the game.
He played overhappened the game that the Cubs lost.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
But like it.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
So it's not like all good all the time for Casey.
But it's just kind of funny the way it works
out that he's been so relevant in the times that
he's filled in for Tucker. And you know, I guess
the question is like, why why do we let players?
This is something where yeah, I mean baseball players. I

(28:48):
saw someone else say this, and I think it's right,
Like baseball players are these are guys who have beaten
the odds, right, so they're always gonna think I can
do this.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Guys also played banged up, right, Like they don't always
they're always playing hurt. But maybe he's playing injured. I
don't know. There's obviously like an agent principal problem here too,
where the Cubs only have him for this year. They
traded a lot for him. Yeah, they're maybe not best
positioned to say, hey, sit for a month, but.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Are they get right? Are they reaping the rewards in
this situation? It seems like not.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
And for Tucker, is it better to sit for a month,
come back fully healthy and have a good one hundred
and thirty game season or try to play through it
and you know, for his walkiere or try to play
through Like I think at the end of the day,
like that he played hurt for a couple of months,
given his track carre, isn't really going to negatively impact
the contract he gets at the end of the season.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
No, I think people will will excuse the down, you know,
the downturn.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
I mean you do if anything, you look at like
what he's had. They even kind of two fluky injuries,
but like he keeps getting the bones keep fracturing and
also like barely yeah, barely, keep barely fracturing. There you
got You can find them if you look hard enough.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Part of part of his next contract is gonna be
three mandatory glasses of milk a day.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, they got to give them the bone juice. They
were giving the thriller when he was having these kind
of issues. But yeah, I don't. Yeah, No, it's it's
always it's always a negotiation. These guys always want to
play unless allegedly you're catl Marte that the Bags are
trying to trade this off season very clearly.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
But like so, I thought we did. We we didn't
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
We didn't talk about when it came out.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
I talked about it with some people, but not not
in the pot. It was a very odd, odd story
to me and not I don't mean to to impune
Nick Pikoro, who I.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Think is no. I believe everyone said the things that
they said to Nick mcco.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Don't know that he writes it if it's just pure
you know what I mean, like he like.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
I think, I mean it's news if they even if
it's news, if they think that and think it enough
to be go on background for it.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, right, I agree.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
It didn't sound like it was one person with an action.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
He apologized, right, Yeah, I mean, I guess I thought
that was interesting because I read it, and I still thought, man,
I don't know, like he's just he's you're.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, and like Levolo came out and guy too, so.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Right, and that's you never know what. Maybe he's doing
that publicly well telling him behind the scenes like buddy, yeah,
you know, because he's as a manager, he should right,
like he should against uh you know, background reports, right,
like it just uh, yeah, I don't know, but I do.
I do think you're right. These guys played through this stuff.

(31:45):
Someone went online today brought up, you know, Ronald or
Tuna playing through some Obviously he's missed a bunch of time,
but he has played through you.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Know, Marte's gonna play around one hundred and thirty games
this year. He played one hundred and thirty six last year.
He had like an actual I Elston in there at
the end of the season, one thirty seven. Like that's fine,
Like you like him to be closer to one fifty
every year, But I was like, it's not.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah, I wouldn't play with like yeah, with one hundred
and thirty to one hundred and forty games of his production, right, Yeah,
if you're he's also like he's also had bad years
something of years when he plays more right, Like I
don't know, maybe it really is a situation where he
needs to be right, you know.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
He's like, you know, I'm thirty one now to second base,
Like second base tends to wear down guys in their
early thirties, Like, you know.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
I don't know. It's also one of those things where
you like your starters to go every fifth day, and
a lot of them go every sixth day.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
Now.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Sure, it's just like like load management has become.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yeah, exactly right, that's kind of what I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
I did like the part they're like, oh, well he
left for a few days after the All Star break
and that's why we sold, Like it's not really why
it was. I don't think it was that much of
a difference.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Things things were already looking for Yeah, no, but but.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
For Tucker and the Cubs. I the thing I think
is like, after this downturn happens. I also noted like
this happened either last year or the year before. With
Will Smith he cracked a.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Rib he happened with but off his foot and like
fractured it and just kept playing and had his bad
six Francisco indoor weeks in June.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
This year, right, He's still yeah, He's just.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
He did like he like slammed his like he had
like he fractured his finger in a hotel door, like
one day off and was bad for these guys. Just
do that, and Tucker is gonna Tucker is a star.
He's gonna set his own timetable in the same way
Lindora does. Lindorida doesn't take days off, so it doesn't
take days off.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Well, the only thing I was gonna say on Smith
was like he he cracked a rib in late May,
I think, and then had like a great June. This
is not this year. This was a year or two ago,
and and then it was bad, was really bad for
an extended period of time, which is very much the
Tucker timetable. But like I think it's on the team,

(34:01):
especially if they're bad. You know, William Contreras was not
William Contreras, but he was he was like ops in
close to seven hundred or whatever close as a catcher,
and it's kind of like, Okay, that's fine. When you're
getting six fifty from your corner outfielder. I think you

(34:21):
just say, hey, take a break. Yeah, right, And I
think it's on the team. I understand, you're right, these
guys play through this, and I think it is a
pain tolerance issue. I think it is you know, what
adjustments does it cause you to make when you're making
when you're you know, when you're trying to perform all this.
I'm not saying you have to take agency completely away
from the player, but I think, you know, I also

(34:42):
saw someone mention this about Craig Council, like, is it
not his job to talk to the guy and say,
like some combination of you're uncomfortable and it's clearly impacting
you in a way that's not helping the team. Take
a ten day ie el stint.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
Yeah, you know, and they you know, it's always comes
up that it's just, oh, it's pain management. It's pain management.
We have increasingly accurate tools to actually establish whether it is.
And then I talked about this last time. We you know,
these new metrics, we have swing metrics and these pitch metrics,
we have a better vocabulary for describing what is actually performed,

(35:23):
you know, affecting performance and what is just a slump. Right,
because the hitter is always going to think it's a slump.
The picture is always going to think it's a slump,
and you we can say, no, your swing's down a
mile and a half, right, And maybe it is for
a week, but like we have to decide at a
certain point. Okay, but it's been it's been fifteen days now.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Well, And I think that's a great point, Patrick, And
I think to the point that like we monitor, we
have teams monitoring guys in game to note, okay, are
you down velocity? Are you is your arm slot dropping?
It's time to pull you right, Like we know that
for pictures. I'm sorry, but if it's a week of

(36:03):
slower swings directly following an injury, I think you can.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
You can.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
If you can make the case in a single game
that you're down a mile per hour and your arm
slat dropped and or you know whatever and and you
need to come out, I think you can make the
case off of you know, five to to ten games
of data and say this is down. You need to
you need to, you need an eel Ston, take a rest,
take take the minimum.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
And you know, and you know, we should be destigmatizing
taking time off. Right. This is this is an old
baseball thing to be like you gotta play three, you
got rub dirt on it. You shouldn't if it makes
your team worse and it makes yoursel like nobody won
in this situation.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Right, that's the part.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
I Kate Feldman. It is literally a ten day I L.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Yeah, well it is.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
And he's still not on the I light. No, he's
not just being held out of games. I mean, at
this point there going to go in.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
I guess they could backdate it, but they're going to
go into September soon anyway, they're gonna right.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
So the the other part of this I just want
to speak to is I saw some people bring up
online that like, you need the players consent to put
them on the eye L And that is not true.
That's not in the c BA.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
They can request a second opinion and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yes, and and look, you you want the players consent
because you don't want a grievance right like there, it's
you don't need their Yeah, have been in trouble for
some of this stuff, So you want the players consent.
You want it to be a you know, a two
way street or three really between the medical staff and

(37:45):
the team and and the player but it is not
in the CBA that they need to sign off.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Right, and the medical staff isn't independent because your your
boss pays them to. Right, But you can get a
second opinion.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Absolutely absolutely, but they it is not required for that.
The club can could, and I believe justifiably could put
this he has a hair line fracture, like, yeah, right,
it's a broken bone. We're putting him on like that
is I'm sorry, Like, I think you'll win that grievance, right,
I do, if it was.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
I if they wanted to, Like they don't have to
really worry about the long term relationship with this player.
I'm sure they want to resign him. But yeah, technically, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
I'm sure the front office wants to resign him. I
don't know if if the Rickets one a favorite? Uh
but yeah, all right, are we uh yeah, we're.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
Done with that.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
All right, Let's go to the third topic. The revolution
will not be televised. It'll be streamed, kind of a
kind of out of nowhere announcement.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Now we have more on that that's actually broken since
we started recording to Oh really, okay, more details.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
So so let me just set the browns here. I
saw this via awful announcing sounds so so it sounds
like we're heading towards a deal for MLB. This came
from Kendall Baker. I think originally.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Where it's it's has more stuff on it now too.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Well, we'll get to that in a second. I just
want to correct me if I have any of this wrong.
I'm going off memory. But uh, it sounds like Apple
is getting completely out of the MLB game. Apple's Friday
night games are going to NBC Slash Peacock. NBC slash
Peacock is also picking up the Sunday night games that

(39:38):
ESPN is dropping. But as we talked about with ESPN
and their interest in local uh streaming rights, it's and
I did not know this was on the table. It
sounds like they are going to buy MLB TV. Yes,
this is different than it's I mean, it's probably related,

(40:01):
but it's different than ESPN buying NFL network or a
steak in NFL network or whatever or no, they bought
NFL network and NFL the NFL got a steak in
ESPN something like that.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
The NFL has a steak in MLB TV, is what
we're saying. What's that the NFL now now that's right.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
So so ESPN, Uh, it's they're not buying MLB network
as far as I know. The big reason, the big
thing there is NFL Network owns red Zone, which is
what ESPN wanted.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
To be great and like Sunday Ticket is still I
think it's still direct TV only, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
I believe that's but this sounds like it's the it's
MLB TV, So they're buying the platform that delivers the
service well and also like owns Band which ran this,
but there they're essentially paying for this streaming. This has
not been detailed.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
We need a lot of this is here the details
from Andrew Martin. Under the framework of a degree in
between MLB and ESPN, ESPN would have MLB TV as
part of its direct to consumer offering. So that's the
thirty dollars plus. No, it's something, it's something else. Now
it's the ESPN Unlimited. Yeah, ESPN Plus is now ESPN Select. No,

(41:22):
YESPN Plus is now ESPN Select, ESPN Unlimited. ISA you
can watch like because you can't watches, right, you can't
watch ESPN the network on ESPN Plus. You can on
ESPN Unlimited. But anyway, it is not fully clear yet
if out of market subscribers who pay for the package
through cable or other linear subscriptions still be able to

(41:43):
receive MLB TV that way, I'm guessing they're not. So
they will have the full rights to in and out
of market games for the Guardians, Padres, Twins, Diamondbacks, and
Rocky the League runs right, as well as the out
of market for the other twenty five teams. For digital
consumers are likely to need an ESPN to direct a
consumer subscription to go along with MLBtv. The overall new

(42:06):
pricing for MLBtv is not yet decided, but it'spect to
be similar or slightly cheaper than the current thirty dollars
per month rate for the direct to consumer ESPN. So
you're gonna be paying seven hundred dollars a year to
watch MLB games now, Okay, so you'll need It's like
it's like you need to get there that it's an
add on to the thirty dollars a month thing, at

(42:27):
least thirty dollars a month.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
So you're saying, so I'm I'm I'm a dinosaur who
still has kid. Yes, I also have access as part
of a package to ESPN Plus. Right, you're saying, this
is implying that I will need another and I already
I paid.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
So if you pay for cable and have ESPN, you
can get ESPN Unlimited without an additional faith you also
have to pay I assume for the MLDTV price on
top of that to access.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Which I already did I do, which you are it'll
be more.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I'm guessing it's going to be you're so similar to
or cheaper than thirty dollars a month.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
But yeah, so Unlimited is strictly for you get access
to it if.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
You have ESPN Unlimited direct? Is there direct to consumer
ESPN if you don't pay for cable, right, so I
assume it's Espn Espn too. But then within that you
get you're going to get add ons like I assume
you ably have to pay an add on for their
WWE stuff, and MLBtv will be an ad like it
won't be included in the thirty dollars. You would think

(43:30):
for three hundred and sixty dollars a year you could
also get MLBtv, but it does not sound like that's
not the case.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Well, no, why would you buy? I mean, yeah, I
said to you. So this was like the model has
been underpriced for a while a long time, and I
think it's smart, right, like you want to if you're
the League and you own it, like you want to spread.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Uh, ESPN now needs to make money. I don't know
what they're paying for this, but I assume it's a
lot of fucking money.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I have to think it is a lot of fucking money.
So what they need to both they need to get.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, I'm sure they're still gonna put ads in between
the innings like MMBTV does. They're better at selling ads
than the League is. I assume because they're literally a
TV network. They're multiple TV, multiple TV networks, right, And
there's you're also trying to attract people to dis direct
the consumer, you know, streaming service too.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
So at it's heard it is still ten people in
black T shirts and no hair owning everything. Yes, and
it is still sports are all still rooted on the
foundation and making sure that people who don't want a
particular sport are still paying for.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
This is just a new way rest of the case.
But yeah, well I don't I don't know.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
We're going to be for a lot of stuff to'
unlimited that we don't care.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
About you don't want to watch like but I just well,
yes and no, Patrick, But it's also making sure that
people who want a sport are paying the optimal amount,
which was optimal for sp optimal optimal for the maximal amount.
I'm sorry for for ESPN because the I mean, like

(45:08):
you're likning this to the cable bundle, but the cable
bundle was a lot more reasonable because it was so
it was so dis there was so much dispersal, right, like,
this is ESPN and it's all sports, and they're grouping,
they're pitying people who like baseball but don't care about
football with people who don't like football but don't care
about baseball, and trying to get them to pay for everything.

(45:29):
But there was so much on cable that like you
could you could foice a low.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Very high carriage on ESPN when.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
People will pay for it. But it's it's both a
very high carriage fee relative to everything else and also
less than all this shit costs. Right, Like I believe
I saw someone say the carriage free for ESPN right
now is up to fifteen dollars.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, something ridiculous. It's bananas because a lot of people
have cable four Yeah right, sure, oh yeah, but not
for everything it's now.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
It's now it's now looking a lot more like a
la carte, which again is expensive than it is the
benefits of spreading that out amongst such a massive.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
If this is thirty dollars a month three ESPN unlimited
plus twenty five a month for MLBtv, I'm going to
pay it and write it off on my taxes. But
I don't think a lot of people are going to
pay seven hundred dollars a year to watch base watch
every baseball game.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
I do think it's shortsighted in that sense. I also so,
I was talking to Mark norman in about this, and
he wrote about this in his UH in his newsletter.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
I think he'll be writing about this.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
I won imagine more details for us, but this this
is he posits that, and I think reasonably so that
this is uh, you know, a potentially a fortifying move
for owners heading into what could be a significant lockouts.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Not their problem anymore, right, Like they get the front
loaded money here, and you know, the Minnesota to fans
that now have to pay seventy dollars a month or
whatever to watch them in market, like whatever.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Well, and.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
So when does this all take effect? Because all the
next year, where is it next year? Okay, because there
were there were a number of things that were everything
was coming up TV wise in twenty twenty eight, right,
this is streaming, it's not TV, right, so it's different.
I just wasn't sure. The thing about what Mark was
was kind of floating. And I think it's like I said,

(47:31):
I think it's reasonable. I went back and looked at
when they first started selling BAM shares to Disney, and
it was August of twenty sixteen. Do you know what
expired in twenty sixteen?

Speaker 2 (47:46):
I had of twenty seventeen CBA, the.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
CBA now they sold. They then sold BAM progressively to Disney.
I guess some other people at shares, but it was
eventually completely sold to Disney over the course of that
entire CBA, heading into what was a very frosty twenty

(48:10):
twenty two CBA, right, Like that's when the new normal
came about, Like twenty sixteen to twenty twenty one was
agreed to in November of twenty sixteen, so they sold
it ahead of that. But it wasn't a problem, right,
They didn't have the problem the extended. They didn't have

(48:31):
a lockout or anything like that heading into that, but
they also knew what they were It seems to me
you could at least narratively put together the pieces that
they knew what was coming in twenty twenty two or
ahead of the twenty twenty two season and started fortifying
their you know, their their bank rolls. It also just

(48:52):
seems pretty shortsighted to me to give away something and
not giveaway they're going to sell it for a lot
of money, but this was an ongoing revenue generator and
now it's gone like it's the one time sale. But
and it's gonna be a lot. The argument is a
lot of these guys are going to cash out and
it'll be someone else's problem. But I don't know. I

(49:16):
do think it's related to potentially related to a lockout.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Then they can play this on both sides, right, they
get the front loaded TV money here, if they negotiate
whatever they I they I don't think they're going to
lose games.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
But if they don't think they're going to lose games either,
they're going.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
To give more money to the players because that's usually
how this works. And then they'll have five billion dollars
in expansion fees on the other side of it.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
So yeah, yeah, I also think you know, there's there's
and again this reads short sighted to me, but like
if if, if you want to try and push for
a cat, you have to decide what baseball related revenue
is and you've now cut off a stream that could
somehow go to the players right right in a in

(50:00):
a future Caps world, Oh, I we don't have to share.
They don't have to share this money. It will never
it will never get to be negotiated because it's sold, right,
it's gone. This is It's like it's like a divorce
for you know, people are like, oh, I'll I'll sell
this thing and I get to keep all of it
because I don't want there to be you.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Think, like I did, they just keep the out of market, right,
So these teams, this team in these teams in perpetuity
now though I don't think.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Well that's I don't know. So again, they're buying mlt
MLB TV, which is in some essence the platform, but
they've already bought the platform in BAM, so I don't
know exactly, I don't know what if they're buying.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
The rights and perpetuity right to show these games.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Right, I'm waiting for detail.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
I don't know, like if more teams these ballets things
comes up, or more teams want to sell directly to
mL to ESPN through MLB TV, can they do that too,
I don't know. We're splaying more details on that obviously.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah. I also I don't know if this is a
big to your point, if you if you start essentially
doubling the price, yeah, is this is this helping in ESPN?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Are the numbers going to They just paid seven support
that it just paid like seven eight hundred million dollars
a year for WWE.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Like the thing I don't think.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
I don't think NFL companies doing OTT streaming know how
to make money, because there's very little evidence that any
of them are making money outside of Netflix. I guess
we just bought the Home Run Derby for some reason
and all this we should.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Yeah, I forgot, I will say like I don't and
and I do. By the way, I think that for
like minimal investment, they're going to do fine on that.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
I think.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Yeah, the Home Run Derby.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Yeah, the only the only side, the only thing I
saw it is that they met the price that MLB
wanted for it. Whatever.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
That was, sure, fine, I don't know the other I
do think ESPN gets what they what. I think they're
going to get what they want. Red Zone is like, but.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I don't know how price elastic baseball fans are going
to like. I don't know if there are enough out
of market. Maybe there's enough out of market, yankee, I
don't know enough like out of market Texas Rangers fans
or whatever to be like, I am now going to
pay essentially what was my cable bill. I guess it's
not even my cable bill, but like a large chunk

(52:25):
of my cable bill just for this one base and look,
you get the other stuff with the ESPN I'm limited
to tell you which I'm sure there's gonna be other stuff,
which is what they're just to me.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Strikes a lot.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Like the original, not the original, but the last ESPN
UFC contract where you had to pay for ESPN Plus
and then seventy dollars for the pay per views on
top of that, right, but that you couldn't get the
pay per views without any ESPN Plus subscription. So it's
a way to right, It's a way to get you.
It's the personal we talk about this, right it's the

(52:57):
personal seat license, the mandatory goal donation to get the
season ticket, right, Like, it's the same. It's just another
fee that I have to pay before I can pay
to get the thing I want. And I'm not getting
a huge like I just I just signed up for
the Athletic Brewing like membership. I like they're non alcoholic beers.
I want to have a beer, but not like have

(53:18):
a beer while I'm cooking or whatever. And their stuff's good,
and it was twenty nine dollars for the year, but
I get like free shipping if I buy four or
four packs, plus I get three dollars off on all
those four packs. So it's just gonna pay for itself,
right there. Limit is not going to that.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yes, that make it worthwhile. And then there are companies
that do not make it worthwhile.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
The days of the Columbia Record House.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Yeah, we're not getting getting that. Yeah. I often don't
sign up for stuff because like, I just don't want
to sign up for more stuff, Like I might not
do that in a similar situation for you know, an
interest of mine, for what are you talking about? But
it's also not extortionary, right, like they make it worth
it for you. This is this is literally saying like

(54:03):
you're already paying for a thing, We're gonna slide, We're
gonna insert ourselves in the middle and charge you an
additional fee.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
That's just I mean, you know, yeah, all right, are
you telling me there's rent seeking behavior in late stage capitalism?

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Anything else?

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Peanut Butter.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
I just wanted to note that Mark Normandy made great
joke about the Netflix situation. I joked that in order
to make it a true Netflix show, they're gonna have
to turn off the lights, and then Mark Normandy noted
that they'll have to cancel it after tuesdays before the
price goes on. That was it was pitch perfect, good stuff.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
It's perfect. All right, let's take a break. We'll be
back with the rest of the show. Welcome back to

(55:05):
episode four hundred and eighty five of five and Dive.
We're on our fourth segment. We're going around the horn
and not the most enjoyable first topic that I'm going to.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
Bring up here, but a great horn in general. Not
a great horn in general.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yeah, but I'm I'm I encourage this to be on
the doc because I felt like it was worth addressing.
And I don't know that we're going to write something
about it on the site or not. We had some
talks about it, didn't have something up today, but I
just don't know if we're ultimately gonna address it there.

(55:39):
But I wanted to address it somewhere, Which is that
The Athletic published an article about the Yankees fifth round,
fourth or fifth Yeah, Core Jackson. And you might be
thinking his name is Core Did he spend time in Utah?
That feels like a Utah name? And the answer is yes.

(56:02):
But he so he was a He was a traffick
out of Utah, right, Jeff? Those where he ultimately came
out from. He started his college career at Indiana, spent
a year in junior college, and then ultimately.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
I thought it was the University of Nebraska.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Was the University of Nebraska?

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Oh, I'm sorry, I apologize, Yes, that is correct. University
of Nebraska then went to a junior college for a
year for reason, ended up back at at Utah. The
reason he left Nebraska, well, I guess I don't know.
The article doesn't really substantiate the one.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
One from the University of Nebraska would comment on this
and the Yankees didn't ask them apparently, so.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
So I guess the reason for this this article is
that it was going to come out regardless.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
And so the year I have known about this for
over a year, right, and I didn't like It's It's
not like because I go to Utah games. This was
around the draft and college baseball industry, which I know super.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
And for the article, he was upfront about it because
you have to be because it's going to and if
you don't, it just looks worse, which is he had
ah at Nebraska. There was an evening he got per
him blackout drunk and then car Or Drew carved. I

(57:28):
don't know, a swastika on the door or door frame
or something of a Jewish Was it a baseball player
or just I don't just.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
A student, you know.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
The article.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Doesn't.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
The article focuses a lot on the steps he's taken
since then, which involved working with a uh professor I think, yeah,
or a graduate student at a at Yeshiva University to
educate himself. He's from a small town Canada, Yeah, rural Ontario, Canada,

(58:19):
and look I and and it talks about the steps
he's taking to educate himself. He talks about how he
knows what he did was wrong. Uh, and also how
he was very upfront with teams and brought.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
This his agent made him call all thirty teens. It
would have gotten like this again.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
You have to do this because it will come.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
At You have to also apparently when you draft him
a story a month later, because it's going to come out.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Correct well again. And and this is where look, I'm
I'm I'm not a religious a Jew, but I am.
I grew up Jewish. I was bar Mitzvah, Right, my last.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Name is Goldstein.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
I don't you can't outrun that type of association. My
view on this is, you know, I'm glad that to
whatever degree he's he's become less ignorant on the topic,
because there is a lot of ignorance. And and I
don't I people who listen to this podcasts will know

(59:26):
I strongly believe in second chances. I strongly believe people
should be allowed to redeem themselves.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
And and.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
I guess where I land on this is what the
fuck am I.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Supposed to do with this?

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah? What what what do I do? Oh? Great, You've
given me a bunch of people including one of the
people he's working with telling me he's dumb as rocks
about this stuff.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
In the article, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
You have him saying I left Nebraska because it wasn't
growing my faith and I wasn't getting better as a player. Well,
that doesn't to me about growth. He I believe he's
less ignorant than he was on the subject, but I
don't know that that means he's grown. I don't know.
You know, he still says I was blackout. I don't
know why I did that. I didn't know where I

(01:00:15):
was doing it. Okay, I'm there, I'm ignorant. Maybe I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
But is there a don't know how many University Nebraska.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
One in a million chance?

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:00:31):
Yeah, I'm left with what what because it the article
doesn't explicitly ask for forgiveness, right, but he has got it,
and it just is showing you all the people in
the Yankees organization, and it talks about all the Jewish.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
People within the org. Now the Yankees have a number
of Jewish players, by the way, six or seven. I
believe in their in their minor leagues and and or
throughout the organization. And I think that you know, the
question is like, oh, you know, he's been a model
citizen for for coach you know, coaches you know see
him this way. This is not a Jewish environment that

(01:01:09):
he has to walk in through.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
There are a number of bigoted people throughout baseball, you know,
gaining acceptance in that context, It doesn't mean much to
me that the Yankees, that people in the Yankees organization
were asked about this and then we're given the clear Well,
they're being asked about it from people who determine their
job status in some contexts. Right there, they're also being

(01:01:35):
asked about it, and they know, Oh, if I cause
a problem, if I say, if I'm if I object
to this, maybe I'm viewed as the problem now, Right,
if you're a Jewish player who has to share a
clubhouse with him, if you speak out and everyone else
is fine with it, if you speak out, then you're
the problem.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
So it's it's you know, it's like, oh, we've given
the opportunity for people to OPI him. But are they
I mean on level ground? No, you know, And like again,
like should I care clubhouses accepted Trevor Bauer? Should I
give a shit what clubhouses accept from people? You know,
you know, for and and again. I hope he has grown.

(01:02:18):
I believe, you know, bad incidents under you know. He
he also said, there's a part where they talk about
how uh he got he got caught for a dui
in twenty twenty four, right, and he says, I haven't
touched the drop of alcohol since maybe you should have
stopped touching the drop of alcohol when you Jewish swastika

(01:02:40):
on a Jewish person's door, right, Like, was that that
part wasn't enough? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
I mean, it's yeah, he said, he said, ahead, it
just feels like this. It's the entire point of this
article is to justify why the Yankees drafted him, essentially.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Right, I don't think the point, right, I don't think
the point of the article was to ask for forgiveness,
but it was that from the Yankees perspective, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
To get because this was going to come out, and
it came out in a very controlled way instead of
someone just firing off a tweet about it that knew
about it from wherever. I'll tell you about when he
was drafted, I looked on Twitter to see if anybody
was talking about it. A little Twitter search. If I'm
on that site anymore. So I was curious because I
like talk to teams that were just like, yeah, he's

(01:03:23):
not like, he's not on their draft board. And in
the article it says there were five or six teams
that were The Yankees wanted to make it very clear
they were not the only one considering drafting him. So my,
I am not in a position to grant forgiveness here, right, Like,
this did not happen to me or a group I

(01:03:44):
am part of. I think in society we can draw
a pretty big red line. Yeah, like carving a Swaska
on a Jewish student's store. One would think.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
It's a smaller red line in these days than you'd hope.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Yeah, but baseball is the very cynical about this. I
saw in our internal discussion that someone made the point
They're like, well, now it's going to be you know,
forgiveness comes from a high ops, right, Like that's the
that's the justification for it. So let's look at it
from the baseball point of It was a fifth round

(01:04:16):
senior sign cut for one hundred and forty seven thousand
dollars to make their draft pool work.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Yeah, they managed to mention what a deal they were
getting on this in the context of an article about
anti Semitism pretty early on in the piece too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Yeah, but like there's a lot of seniors that you
can sign. I watched I saw a lot of core
jacks in the last two years. There's a lot of
Like if you told me he was just going to
get drafted as like a day three pool player at
some point, like fine, sure, not for me. Really, I
don't think he can not This part doesn't matter, but
it matters to the Yankees with the purposes' discussion. I

(01:04:53):
don't think he can hit or play short stuff. He's
got a little pop that I think plays up because
he plays all his games in the Lack Conference are
a lot of his games in the Y Conference. But
like you could have found any other I don't think
they think he's a future major leaguer. I think they
decided this is the guy they wanted to draft at
that number, at that bonus number, and that's how they
made the math work for the rest of their draft

(01:05:14):
class for das Kilty and I.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Mean, to your point, though, the answer is like why him.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Right, you can find like a senior closer for a
mid major team. It's gonna just as good a chance
to make the majors. It's going to sign for the
same number and not like I don't. I just don't
understand outside of you can't say outside of everything else,
because that's part of why this is confusing to me.

(01:05:39):
But like I know, seems will sign assholes if they think.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Yeah, bad guys. But I like this for I just
made the point that this is the most like background
they've had. Are done again if you have to do?
And I thought, why for this guy?

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
I don't know, and it's not clear to me and
the piece why either exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Like so the other thing I wanted to say about
about the article and specifically about like what the people
in the article are saying and what the the forgiveness
aspect I guess on this is one.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
I think it's it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
This is something that happens a lot with any of
these kind of redemption pieces, right, is that it at
least implicitly as starts asking for forgiveness because they're trying.
And this is something that came up in our internal discussion.
Well at least he's trying. Yeah, I mean I literally
at least that the least I don't trying trying is great,

(01:06:53):
but I don't actually have to respect what's what's come
of the trying.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
He can go and continue to improve himself, like and
I hope somewhere right like it doesn't have to be
playing for the Yankees like well, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Think on some level of forgiveness there has to be trust.
And there's zero for me. I'm not going to speak
for everyone, but for me, there's zero trust in the
motivations behind this piece, whether it's from Jackson himself or
more more specifically to me, the Yankees right right this piece,

(01:07:29):
there's there's too much.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
At stake.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
I saw a lot of people focusing on on the
money that he got, like his money was at risk,
which is why he's come forward. You know, he's been
so upfront. But the question is would he be as
upfront if his career and his money wasn't at stake?
Would the Yankees be as upfront if it wasn't obvious

(01:07:53):
that this was going to get come out at some point?
Would they have done all this this work? Would he
have done all this work in terms of educating himself
if he thought he could have gotten away with it.
It was very obviously he he was very obvious.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
He could not right right, No, it was like again
I heard about this again around the draft last year,
and in a way that was like from a team
not in vogue. It was not Yankees related, It was
not Utah Baseball related, it was not Nebraska related. It
was this was around the industry already because like this
stuff again, this was a guy that was draft eligible

(01:08:31):
after his DUCO year and after the teams do their
due diligence like and again you did not did not
have to do as much as the Yankees did to
know what he did there, right, and as for as
much as the Yankees for all the due diligence they did.
They said they didn't talk to anyone at Nebraska. So
how much due diligence did.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
They really do? How much bad they really do?

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
Like most due diligences they did, They did the work
they wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
To, right, And I know, like Furpa is involved here
too and things like that, but like he can weigh
Forurpa if there are some other and just drafted him
and you know, if he wants to be transparent, mind
talk to anybody in Nebraska you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Want, yeah, I And it just it comes back to
me to like why would I you have to believe
that the motivations are sincere.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
And you know, again.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
He's there, especially like why didn't this come out before
he was drafted, because then he wouldn't get drafted, right,
then it's not and then the Yankees wouldn't have covered
to draft.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Him, right, And and that's and that's where again that
can be viewed as cynical. Yeah, but there's a lot
of reasons to be cynical about this, And I think
that's that's the whole point I'm talking about, like motivation
and and trusting that it's it's legit. The reason I

(01:09:50):
bring that up is is because the context around all
of this makes it hard to believe that it is,
and like I don't and without that belief it again,
what am I I come back to, what am I supposed.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
To do with it?

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Like you've now given me this this knowledge that this
guy did an awful thing to someone and has educated himself.
But as far as I know, not, I mean, you know,
I saw Daniel Epstein, one of our writers, talking about,
like what has he done to to kind.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
Of make amends with the community?

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Right, done anything like that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Answer? The answer is not in the article. Now I'm
not going to say it doesn't exist. I don't know,
but it's certainly not brought up, which you would think
in an article that seems to be about kind of
rehabilitating his reputation would bring it up if it had
been done again. I'm glad he's not as stupid about
this stuff as before.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
And I don't and you want to be I won't
know what you want to be, Like, how did you not?

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
The idea that you wouldn't know that this was a
thing you shouldn't do is wild to me, But I
guess like we're actually not teaching this stuff in the
schools anymore, so, like.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
I think, I think it is I don't want to
be nineties.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
I agree, I agree, I want to start with that, right,
Like I am giving. I know I shouldn't do this,
but I don't grasp the gravity what it means. It's
not that's not an excuse, it's it's inexcusable. I'm sorry
it is. It's also like he's had access to internet.
I like, this isn't hard to find, right, but there is.

(01:11:32):
I understand that people are sheltered. I mean, look, I
saw this come up in our internal discussion too, and
and it was from someone older than me talking about
his grandparents. I am my father met someone from Iowa
who who was like, where are the horns entails and entail?

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
And this is that's one generation for me that someone
just didn't like fully thought Jewish people had horns and
a tail. Ignorance is out there, right, but we live
in a much different information environment, for better, for for

(01:12:14):
better and worse. But there's access to a lot of
very clear information about what this means. And again, he
knew what it was. He drew it. Yeah, And so
like I understand that there's there is a a possibility
that he thought this is bad or I mean, look,
I'm sure he was blackout, drunk, I don't know whatever,

(01:12:35):
but like so, I don't know what the thoughts were
in his head, but like the he had the concept
of this is bad. Uh, But it's also like I'm
doing a bad thing as a frank or funny gag.
It's like bad, but but right, it's funny to some people.
And I'm sure it is by the way, without knowing
the full with full force what it means. Again, I'm

(01:12:58):
not endorsing that it might exist, but it's inexcusable. If
that's the case, that is it. I don't care where
you're from. I don't you you have access to to
fix that knowledge. You don't need a grad student and
a professor at Yeshiva or whatever. I don't remember the
exact It was the agent, another client of the agent's father.
I think, who happens to be a professor at Yeshiva

(01:13:22):
or whatever or associated with the school. It's not it's
it's not an excuse. It's not I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
No, it's fine. When you commit crimes, you pay for crimes.
I mean, non hate crimes, but you if you commit
a crime, you don't just get to go. While I
have educated myself, I'm not going to steal a car
again because I've educated myself about why stealing cars wrong.
You've done harm. I knew it was wrong. I didn't
know how wrong it was. Yeah, I did. You've done harm.

(01:13:55):
And like, I don't personally care about kor Jackson as
a person. I don't care if he is a better person. Now.
What I care about is that he hurt people and
that he needs to do something to make up for that.
Not for him out himself, not for his own personal journey,
not for his own draft status. He needs to like

(01:14:18):
if he is truly as dumb as a bag of rocks,
as some scout said, No, not a scout.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
This is the guy that the other the agent's other
clients fought right.

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
If that is the case, then it is his responsibility
to make sure the next kid isn't as dumb as
a bag of rocks. He should be going out and
helping going out and to help other people realize this
is bad. And there is no indication that he's done that.
Like he says he did this and he felt like
the worst person in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
He didn't, he said, he cried when he found out,
and then he went.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
Out and draw drunk. Like it doesn't matter how you felt,
he was still wit and did more bad things.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
You're not actually the center of this story. This story, well,
but this story is. Yeah. I also, I was talking
to someone who brought up Josh Hater, yeah in this context.
And and obviously Josh Hater had a tweets from when
he was younger and that that had a lot of
uh slurs in them. And and look, I want to

(01:15:25):
preface this by saying I don't think anyone owes anyone
who does this stuff for goodness, I don't need. I
think they can earn it. And if they didn't earn
it for you ever, that's okay too. I'm not trying
to convince people to to like, uh, you know, to
turn how they feel about Josh Hater or anything like that.
But Peter has given his support to like l g

(01:15:50):
B t Q youth centers and and he's not he
might be finding that out now people don't know about.
He's not taking it up public thing. He's just doing
things to as far as I can tell from the outside,
I do not know him. Obviously make amends for for
the things that he did that you know, and and

(01:16:13):
that that to me, you know, he there was more
publicity around like his his talking to Billy Bean and
and things like that, but like he has continued to
just do things that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
Again he doesn't he doesn't have to do this for
the purposes of preserving his career and reputation within the anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
And it and it's something in the community that he
impacted or or you know that that became impacted when
when his his uh that I don't know why I
passive voice that that he impacted with with his with
his tweet, with his tweets, right, and and again you
no one has to find that convincing enough to forgive him.
I don't think you have to, but it is. It is.

(01:16:58):
My point is there's a distinction between that and what
we're seeing in this article, and that is at least
closer to what you're looking for in terms of making amends.
All right, I'm sorry. I know that's a bummer of
a topic, but it was a significant topic yesterday and

(01:17:20):
it was obviously on my mind, so I appreciate you
guys talking about it with me. Let's move on to
other news again, not necessarily more uplifting stuff. We do
have a call up Jeffrey. Finally, Bubba Chandler is here sort.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Of, so he's going to pitch it out of a bullpen.
They said long relief, so I assume it's be a
fairly prescribed I'm sure he's on anynings count right, like
they want to.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Make sure he doesn't hit fifty.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Understand that too, But there's not that many starts, but
they maybe eight starts left in the season for him, seven, eight,
nine somewhere in there. You can keep like it's hard,
just let him start if you want to throw him
three innings and then bring in Ki, Yeah you can.

(01:18:11):
And I get it, Like you want to get him
some you want to keep him PEPI eligible, obviously, but
you want to get him some major league experience. We
can start to make those first and second level adjustments
against major league hitters. It's just it's very it's very
weird to just have him, like even if it's a

(01:18:33):
prescribed role and you know you're going to use him
for two innings every five days, Like, why are you
making this this complicated? Like you can just use him
as an opener or an extended opener and let him
do his normal routine instead of like and I don't
think they're going to bring him with men on. They'll
just bring in a reliever behind.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Or that ye or which they might I guess, but like, yeah,
it is very well, I don't know what Pittsburgh's doing. Yeah,
we also have a bit of news, Jeffrey. I don't
know if you had seen, but Carson Williams he was
getting called up, is getting called up. Sure, we've talked
about him.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
They should have been up when they were still kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
Yahn Kim's uh or again he has a nagging injury.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Yeah, we always got off to an absolutely terrible start
Triple A this year, but has basically been Carson Williams
since about Memorial Day.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
Which which means severe swing and miss. It's in zone.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
It's like you're hoping for the good Brandon Crawford years,
maybe even more power than Brandon Crawford. He's probably not
quite as good a defender as Brandon Crawford, but he's
a very very good, very good shots of defender. But yeah,
I mean he's gonna he's gonna try to ride that
like seventy two percent in zone contact rate that's highly optimized,

(01:20:01):
especially he can. Yeah, I mean it's a seventy seven
sixty five ops. He's hitting two thirteen in Durham. He's
striking out a third of the time. Those numbers are
actually both better than they were two months ago.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Let me, uh, let me throw this out at you,
just off the cuff. You're hoping for maybe Matt Wallner
with a good shortstop glove.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Yeah, and he doesn't probably have Wallner's power, like right,
but I will say it's.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
The same, like to your point about like mid low
seventies contact you know in zone contact or whatever it's.
You can be very streaky because when you're making contact
and it's in the air and the full side and
all that, it goes really good. And then there's gonna
be stretches where.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
I think what you're hoping for. His last ninety days
at Triple A, he's hitting two thirty three, three thirty eight,
five hundred. It was seventeen home runs in about a
little under half a season of plate appearances.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Yeah, he can.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Steal bases, he's going to strike.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
It's it's very three true. Yeah, it's very three true.
It's very weird of a three.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
True outcomes like above average shortstop glove. But yeah, that's
what he is.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
But that's what he is.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
Yeah, i'd say fun player, but it's not actually that fun.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Uh. Elsewhere in Baltimore, Felix Batista guessing Patrick wrote this, Yeah,
Pat Tear's entire body. He has a torn rotator.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
Coffin and a torn labram.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Laboram out twelve months. Twelve months, might be optimistic.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
He's gonna like this is probably he's this is probably
it for him. He's going to continue to get like
the Josh Johnson reliever deals.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
I think on the back of this.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
But a man hard to assume.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Tearing two muscles in your shoulder.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Yeah, I think both.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
I guess they both technically my attendance, I guess carrying
two things in your shoulder, while like fairly recently off
Tommy John surgery just feels like the the arm's pretty cooked.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Shoulder stuff is always shoulders that was always worse than now.

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):
Congratulations on them not getting threastic outlets at the same time,
like you could hit the jackpot.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
Rough. Yeah, And I saw I saw someone note this
like he never made a million dollars in a season.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
That's he probably like he has a better chance now
because he will get signed by someone that's not a
couple of million, yeah, one or whatever? Yeah, who was
the Jimmy Nelson get the Jimmy Nelson Dale? Yeah, didn't
they also sign the there was Ailes guy right, the
Royal starter.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
Oh Danny repeatedly, But they also signed cold handles for
a million dollars in Yeah, but there was someone else.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
I'm a little hurt. They haven't talked to me yet.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Just gotta tear some stuff on your shoulder, whichouldn't be
like it's.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
One thing I've done I'm just like baseball players.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Uh, we also have just an absolute bummer. It's rough
for the Orioles from and even rougher for feelings Batista.

Speaker 3 (01:23:02):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
We have a couple catcher injuries. Uh, the most notable
being Francisco Alvarez came back finally was hitting and now
he's hitting the eye.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
L He sprained his other thumb after scrating his.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
And opting not to play through it. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, interestingly.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
Well, it's it sounds like he's going to need surgery
one way or the other.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
Yes, but there's even a chance to come back.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
And play through the pain. Yeah. Again, this is kind
of like the Brewers where you're starting with these trends
every day if he's not there. So yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
The other was Tyler Stevenson. Yeah, shocking that Tyler Stevens.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
He has been fairly durable in the last couple of years,
relatively speaking, this year not so much.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
Yeah, we do want to update the Victor roeblist discussion.
You have ten date it's ten games, right, sorry, ten
game suspension and a fine. Yeah, honestly lighter than I
would have thought.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
Yeah, I mean, I guess he didn't get like some
of this. He just didn't at the bat that close
to the picture.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
I guess might be part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
I don't think it should be results, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
I know, but I think that you don't have the
image like was it the delm one young who threw it,
like you just had the ump Well, you just have
that he's way off camera and you just have the
image of the bat like flooding into.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
I think Also it was an ump which I think
is sure. I don't know if they should.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
I think you could argue that, like I don't know
that I would make this argument. And he's appealing, so
I guess he's going to make this. He wasn't like
he was throwing his frustration and he wasn't really throwing
it at the picture.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
Didn't want to throw it at the umpire. You don't know,
throw the bat helmet somebody. It was through his helmet
and it bounce. No no, no, that was yeah, you
don't want that. You gotta you gotta throw it farther to.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
The helmet and it bounced and hit the guy, and
it's like yeah, right, yeah right. I think, I mean,
I I understand the appeal to some extent. It seems
like they factored this, and like we talked about he
was hit what four or five times in.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
The three times that game, but also of that game
and by Estes right or whatever, Like I get being like,
you can't do a big you can't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
Yeah, there I saw people saying like he shouldn't be
in trouble. You cannot throw a bat. You can't throw
a bat. I'm sorry, there are some extenuating circumstances and
you cannot throw a bat.

Speaker 3 (01:25:28):
So what's interesting is that the Mariners will probably have
to They're gonna wait until the rosters expand to call
him up because he will take up a day.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
Yeah, they'll just be playing MLB suspension or is he
Is he.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
Allowed to He can't serve it. He can't serve it
in the minors, So is.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
He allowed to continue? I guess that's even more confusing.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Man. So I think ten is light is a little
light light?

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
Yeah, I really do. And I'm not like, I'm not
upset about it. I understand, I don't. I'm not mad,
but it it. I think I said last time, I
was expecting fifteen to twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:26:08):
I really was.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
Speaking of being mad about it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
Oh boy, And so you know, I was on one
of my vacations and there will occasionally be a story
and I will just nope out. I'll be like, you
know what, I gotta I gotta take my kids to
eat lunch. I'm going to choose to never learn anything
about this story. And that was true before I had
to be on the podcast where I would learn about
it eventually anyway, So please educate me on why Tommy

(01:26:35):
Fam is mad, maybe at me, but certainly maybe you guys.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
Tommy Fam flipped a bat on a home run and
your your main man, Tyler Heyneman took some offense to it,
and there was like some I don't think it was
some John did he though, well, Tommy Fam believed that
Tyler Heyneman took offense to it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
My understanding is Tyler Hyneman said was that outside. He
asked thee if the pitch was outside, and tom I
think Tommy Famm took offense to any question.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
That does not know well, he clearly on Twitter was
taking offense to the idea he does the lowest chase
rate or well above average hede shit. The the interesting
not to you or really to me, but I guess
the The add on to the story is, uh, Blue
Jays Twitter was getting into it with Tommy Fam a

(01:27:33):
little bit after the game, and Tommy Fam she chose
to post through it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
And Addison Barger, who was not involved in this in
any way, shape or form other than no personally to
Tommy Fam, had an Addison Barger p FPM. FAM's like, well,
you're applying to me with a gad the guts like
suspended not well, yeah, he said, he he said a

(01:28:03):
p D guy, I think, and.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
Barge but but he said he had had a TU
therapeutic use exemption.

Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
But he also did get suspended in the minors for methemp,
for emphetamines okay, for some sort of stimulant, illegal stimulant okay,
doing his research like Fam, Fam, Fam, Why is that?

Speaker 1 (01:28:26):
Why is that top of mind for Tommy?

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
I don't know. Just he knows things.

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
You know, it's good, it's good to press.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
He knows, he knows.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
Jack Peterson did some shady things in the fantasy football league.
He's in the fantasy I don't know how he knows that.
I know players taught me he was in one of
the WhatsApp groups.

Speaker 3 (01:28:44):
I just like the idea that Fam has just like
a book, just like.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
But then I went out, like an hour after he finished.
We actually had to go to the ballpark. He was
asked about and said, I'm not gonna talk about it anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
He said, I speak only facts.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Yeah, and then adism Barger had to give a today. No,
it wasn't it wasn't steroids. I was actually suspended for
in twenty eighteen and tested clean since then.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
But something about a therapeutic use exemption.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
I want to be clear that like if he was.
If he does have that, then it's fine. The league
has sanctioned it. I don't want to like, is someone
supposed to be upset about that? I absolutely, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
He's laughing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
I guess baffled by Tommy FAM's behavior. But no, Like again,
I I don't know that it should be relevant. It's
perhaps unfair, but Tommy Fahm was stabbed outside of a nightclub, like,
and you just like, this is the kind of guy
that he is. I guess that he drives someone to
to that level of frustration. I don't know, this is

(01:29:59):
insane and stuff. He's is that because someone suggested he
might not get a pitch out?

Speaker 3 (01:30:06):
Look?

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
Was it like two strikes?

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
He protecting the zone and still hit it out Like
I don't know, man, it is very much like he
has that like Mac and it's always Sonny like who
are we verses?

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
And you know where? Again? Yes? Absolutely insane?

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
All right, yeah, all right, that's that topic. All Right,
we're gonna have a lightning round. So let's see who
wants to go first? Jeff, Jeff can go first? Jeff
go first? All right? Ten questions?

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Yeah, all right, ready, yep.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
What color are mixtures ers eyes?

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Brown and blue?

Speaker 3 (01:30:44):
What is the name of the kid who only hit
home runs?

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
Sylvester it Codwinkle the third.

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
Before eighteen eighty seven? What was the result of a
hit by pitch.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
Just a ball?

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
What are the names of the two guys shaking hands
on the Minnesota Twins logo?

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
They have names m Paul and Mani.

Speaker 3 (01:31:10):
What is the record for most baseballs held in a
hand with the palm down?

Speaker 2 (01:31:14):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
God?

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
Eight?

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
What Atlanta Braves rookie had the most valuable card in
the nineteen ninety two upper Deck set. As of June
nineteen ninety two, Steve Avery the Expos made the postseason.
That's right, the Expos made the postseason once in their
history before moving. How many times would they have made
it if MLB had allowed two wild cards for the

(01:31:45):
next two best records in the four division era.

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
So that's through ninety five.

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
Through before.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
You're not counting the strike season.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
Okay, I'm going to say they still only would have
made it once.

Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
How much did a pack of nineteen eighty eight tops
cards cost at retail.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
In nineteen eighty eight?

Speaker 3 (01:32:09):
In nineteen eighty eight.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
Man dollars seventy five?

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
Only four players in baseball have hit home runs both
as a teenager and a quadrigen area name one of them?

Speaker 2 (01:32:22):
How many home runs?

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
Any home runs any of the team and forty plus?
If you name all four, you give you a bonus point.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
And Beltra make it to forty played a long time.
Sh I'm gonna I think Adrian Beltray is only one
I feel particularly good about going to say Adrian Beltrain.

Speaker 3 (01:32:54):
Okay, what would happen if a batter were to throw
his bat at a pitch and the ball landed in play?

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
It's an out, I believe.

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):
Okay, thank you very much. Greg.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
He's not looking.

Speaker 3 (01:33:06):
He's not looking.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
You got looking? They didn't think it's lightning round.

Speaker 3 (01:33:10):
Usually flower, it was a fast lightning round.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
Yeah, I want to let like tap on the screen here.

Speaker 3 (01:33:16):
Yeah, exactly, Craig, Craig, come on, come on, Greig.

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
Help still here we go?

Speaker 3 (01:33:21):
Yeah, all right, good, all right, welcome Craig to the podcast.
I know it was a quick one, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
Sorry, yeah, Usually it's uh faster than that.

Speaker 3 (01:33:34):
Yeah, all right? So what color? What color a mixtures
or's eyes? Brown and blue? What is the name of
the kid one each? I don't I mean, I don't know.
That's fine. What is the name of the kid who
only hit home runs? What the name of the kid
who only hit home.

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
Matt Christopher Book, Craig, Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
I have no idea before eighteen eighty seven? What was
the result of a hit by pitch a ball? What
are the names of the two guys shaking hands on
the Minnesota Twins logo? Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Many, many and Paul? I guess what?

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
Seemed very confident and they can't the same answer I did,
just being like they have names.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
No, I do.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
I think that's what is the record for most baseballs
held in the hand?

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
Palm down, palm down, Yes, I don't know it wasn't
Johnny Bench famous for holding seven baseballs?

Speaker 3 (01:34:36):
But I don't know if it was Palm Down.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
I'm gonna say seven.

Speaker 3 (01:34:40):
What Atlanta Braves rookie had the most valuable card in
the nineteen ninety two upper deck set as of June
nineteen ninety two, I have no fucking idea about the
night think about a Brave's rookie.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
And I too, I don't know who was a Brave's
rookie in ninety two. I I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:35:01):
Mark Lemke, all right, wow? Uh the Expos made the
postseason once in their history? How many times would they
have made it? If MLB hit allowed two wild cards
for the next two best records in the four division
era leading up to nineteen ninety three, not captain strike
here one okay, the one time. I'm not one to

(01:35:22):
one additional.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
C and I are way too much in the same wa.

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
Yeah, we're good, it's not Did you also say, Mark? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:35:28):
No, I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
How much did a pack of nineteen eighty eight tops
cards cost it retail Jesus at the time. Yeah, at
the time, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:35:42):
Eighty nine cents?

Speaker 3 (01:35:43):
Okay. Only four players in history have hit home runs,
both as a teenager and as a quadrigen area name one.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
Uh, I'm gonna say, Ken, Griffy.

Speaker 3 (01:35:58):
What would happen if a batter were to throw his
bat at a pitch and the ball landed in play?

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
That was to throw his bat at a pitch, What
would happen?

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
What would be the result?

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
I think it would just be in play? Right, think
they'd have to just play it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:20):
Congratulations, Greg, you win. We're five to four on.

Speaker 1 (01:36:24):
That last question. Really, yeah, all right?

Speaker 3 (01:36:25):
Yeah? Well the color of maxchers or eyes left his brown,
the right is blue. The name of the kid who
only hit home runs, Sylvester Codmeyer, the third. I gave
you credit. I gave you credit for that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
But what did you say, Sylvester? Yeah? Absolutely, I absolutely
credit that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
Before I got out of my local public library, a
lot bad in the reluctant picture I probably took got
probably I read a.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
Lot of that, Christopher, I think for my school library.
I don't remember a word I wrote.

Speaker 3 (01:36:54):
I for not Grafts. Once I wrote a review of it,
tearing it apart.

Speaker 1 (01:37:00):
It's not very good.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
It's very bad.

Speaker 3 (01:37:02):
Before eighteen eighty seven, the results of a hit by
pitch was in fact a ball. The names of the
two guys shaking hands on the Minnesota Twins logo are,
in fact Minnie and Paul. Yeah, I had to look
that up. What is the record for the most baseball's
held in the hand? Palm down? Congratulations, Craig. It is
seventh by the Guinness Book of World Records, set by
Justin predec precall catulo, pra cadula. Well, I don't. I

(01:37:27):
don't know if bench did do it?

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
Was it? Palm down?

Speaker 3 (01:37:30):
Yep? Yeah, oh that's even wild. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:35):
Well, everyone remembers the Blue EMU commercial or whatever right
where he's doing it with the Burgers.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
It's very upsetting. Yeah. Uh he They think the record
for holding it up is fifteen don't. Yeah, I look
at because you're stacking.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
What.

Speaker 3 (01:37:49):
Landa Braves rookie had the most valuable card in the
nineteen ninety two Upper Deck set. Uh it was Ryan
Klesco whose seventy five Uh. If the Expos had been
alet I would to make the postseason's wild card, they
would have gone five times nineteen seventy nine nineteen eighty,
the year they did actually make it when they didn't
finish in first nineteen eighty one because the strike season,

(01:38:10):
and then again in nineteen ninety two and nineteen ninety.

Speaker 1 (01:38:13):
Three they were better than I was just getting. I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
I thought it was a great question.

Speaker 1 (01:38:17):
Yeah I was. I thought, there's at least even odds.
This is a trick question. And I don't know the
actual numbers.

Speaker 3 (01:38:22):
So a pack of nineteen eighty eight Tops cards cost
forty cents?

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
Really? Yeah, little yeah, what did you say?

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
And that had just raised up dollars seventy five it
was three then had gone up less than I had.
I was already buying them in nineteen eighty eight.

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
Yeah, I started going out that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
I guess I was getting an allowance by then. Yeah,
maybe I was buying.

Speaker 3 (01:38:42):
Them on an Only four players in baseball history of
hit home run, both as a teenager and quatertinion. Belcher
retired at thirty nine. Griffy retired at forty, but did
not hit a home run.

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
No, no, really, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:38:56):
Rough stuff. The four players are Ty Cobb, Gary Sheffield,
Alex Rodriguez, and of course Rusty Stop. Oh yeah, he
stuck around I very much.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
I like my mind also went to Hank Aaron and
then was like, what.

Speaker 2 (01:39:10):
I don't think was up at nineteen?

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
Was not up at nineteen? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:39:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:39:13):
That was that was the I was like, obviously had
had homers into it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:16):
Thought about Ted Williams, but I don't think he was
up at nineteen either.

Speaker 3 (01:39:20):
That's so I'm sorry. Can you said Arod A Rod
had that terrible final season, but did runs? A four
year old Sheffield was actually good at for Ty Cobb
had hit his first home run.

Speaker 1 (01:39:33):
That's a list. That's a good question because there's so
many feasible answers that are wrong, right, Like, I like
that one.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41):
And then what would happen if a batter were to
throw a pitch? Throw a bat at the pitch as
long as the batter does not so the rules are
that you're not allowed to throw the bat carelessly, and
you were not allowed to touch or impede a fielder.
If you throw the bat in a way where the
fielder can't make the play, or if you hit the
catcher with it, then it's then you're out. But as

(01:40:04):
long as you just toss it with with aim and
it hits the ball and the ball ends and play,
then you should run.

Speaker 1 (01:40:11):
Well like you I don't, I guess we almost certainly
have not seen this, but like you've seen situations where
guys like lose control of the bat or whatever and
it makes it's usually a foul has it's such weak
or mishit.

Speaker 3 (01:40:26):
To hit it correctly. Yeah, where you would.

Speaker 2 (01:40:29):
If you like lose on the follow through too. It
doesn't really like count for this either, I.

Speaker 3 (01:40:33):
Feel, and you have to be careful not to double hit,
like it would be very easy for the ball to
hit the bat two spots.

Speaker 1 (01:40:40):
Which is fine.

Speaker 3 (01:40:42):
Yeah, what but apparently this was more common. I was
reading on fire forms about this last night. It was
more common a in the lower levels and b in
when there were used to be intentional walks. Sometimes a
picture would throw an intentional ball that wasn't really good. Yeah,
you just gotta throw huck that bat out there and

(01:41:03):
hope of the best.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
So yeah, interesting. So now that's a that's a reveal
for everyone wondering how deep Patrick goes on on George Wilco.

Speaker 3 (01:41:13):
And what I'm saying is that George Welco has one
more hand to.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
Also shout out to Hunter Pens three straight podcasts remarkable
for him. All Right, thank you for the game, Patrick,
Thank you guys for hosting this episode with me, and
thank you to our listeners for joining us on another
episode of five and Dive brought to you by the
Baseball Perspective podcast network. You can get in touch with
the show at five and Dive at Baseball perspectives dot com.
We are wherever you get your podcasts. Search for Baseball

(01:41:42):
Perspectives podcacast network and we'll be in that speed. Thank
you again, enjoy your weekend. We'll see you next week.

Speaker 3 (01:41:53):
H

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Five and Dive, Episode 485: You'll Need Those Fingers for Crossing

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

24/7 News: The Latest

All Episodes

Five and Dive, Episode 485: You'll Need Those Fingers for Crossing

Stuff You Should Know