Five and Dive, Episode 487: We did it, Jo

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:30):
Welcome to episode four eighty seven of five and Dive.
It is Thursday, August twenty eighth. I am your host,
Pretty Goldstein, joined as usual by Patrick Debut and Jeffrey
patron Ostro. Thank you again to Andy for our intro music.
How have your couple days been? Do we have any banter?

(00:50):
It's very early in the morning. Oh yeah, it is.
We're recording a little early due to scheduling issues on
my end. I apologize, No, that's right.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
I'm going to go camping as soon as we finish
this call. I'm going to go drive for five hours
to a campsite that is so far away. I I
you know the person who plan that campsite. I'm not
I don't want to shame him, but there We're going
to drive past some campsites to get to this campsite.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I just don't I don't like driving that much. Guys
like I don't enjoy it. I'm not well. I see
those commercials. No one would know from your yeah, from travel,
that you don't love driving. Even as a kid.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I would see commercials like of people driving around like
those roads and being like, wow, there's something they're getting
something out of that, Like that I don't. I don't
like it's not like an amusement bride. It's it's not
like you're going on the Octopus or something and there's.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
No centrip for a drive.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, like there's no centripical force really being impacted on
you at that point. Like I don't know, like I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
I feel like I feel like I'm forty three years
old from about half dead, and I drove enough in
the first half of my life that I don't like
between the minor league trips, right, you know, driving into
drive a lot. My wife and I were long distance
for a fewears, not that long, but I was driving
to New York City pretty much every weekend, driving on
the b QUE pretty much every weekend, which like is

(02:17):
it's concentrated driving.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
When you're on the PQ.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
You're not actually going anywhere, but it's concentrated driving. It's
like you're getting more drive time. It's like time dilates.
It's like Patrick watching Interstellar. It's like, you know, like
for every minute you spend on the b QUE, actually
ten minutes pass.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
And uncomforting the mental focus required.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, well yeah, it's sometimes sometimes like it depends.
Sometimes you're just not moving while you're waiting for like
the Brooklyn Bridge merge and things like that. It is,
it is driving, but like I still do fairly long drives,
and you know, Patrick's been a watching is a big state.
You don't really want to go to a lot of
the places in it, but it's a big state.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
But it's nice to go through them.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Sure, Obviously, I like I going north. I can get
to Idaho for probably an hour or two. It takes
me five hours going south to get out of the state.
And there's not many places south I want to go to.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
You can't in Maryland.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
That's but like I'm from New England. Like in the
time it takes me to drive to Vegas, right, I
could go to you know, almost to where Craig is
basically from Connecticut, again depending on traffic on the n
But yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
All right, shall we just get into the show. YEA.
Our first segment, the game comits Baseball fraud This is
an adapted, a specialized edition of fraud Watch.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well there's like, yeah, they're on fraud Watch. Let's be honest.
They just got swept. Their league got cut to four
there on fraud Walk.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
There are there are levels of fronts there are level
we're not we're not arguing they're.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
They're going to make the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah yeah, So so the Mits they had a part
of it. I think here's the thing. I would say, yes,
they had, They've had a bad week obviously, but a
lot of this is built on the premise in terms
of even invoking fraudulncy right now, I think.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
What it's how you behave when you're losing too.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
I think I haven't. I'm gonna I'm gonna let you
speak on that a minute. But but my understanding of
this was, like the fraud the fraudulence here was built
on the Mets essentially being so bad recently, but the
Mets were never that bad, like.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
And they've been like they've been hitting in August.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, they found well I think I saw Mike Petriello
point out like they were one of the worst runners
in scoring position teams and then in August they've been
what third in the league or something like that.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
First and I don't want personally yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, so but and look that is you're going to
do this to the Phillies and and all that kind
of stuff. But I guess my point, my point is
so like the Mets were on such a bad extended run.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yep, they were also, I'm sorry they were. Also there
were also one in nine in one run games. Yeah,
la'st like slightly more than a month. Like, let's stop pretending,
can we can we please stop pretending that this this
runners and sporting position thing matters. It feels like it
matters a lot to invoke another customer.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
It does matter a lot to the outcome of the game.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
But we tending it means something like it's my menore,
and then we keep waking up and then keep forgetting
again because it's you know, we only can think of
what happened last week. You know, the Mets are good.
They're a good team. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, they might difficult to explain that to Mets fans, but.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, well yeah, let's talk about Phillies fans for a second.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
So, I mean, like, it's it's rough. I'm not used
to the Mets being these kind of like this like
cartoon villain for another team that they have kind of
become to the Phillies. In the last year or so,
they've lost nine in a row at City Field, including
the games that knock them out of the playoffs. Last year,
and like again, when I talk about like the behavior

(06:19):
makes it more fraudulent when you're stopping the game for
fifteen minutes to complain about parabolic mics on the that
I that have been there for so long. Yeah what yeah,
Oh you didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
You know I missed that.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
So the first game of the series, they went up
the a Phillies went up three to nothing early, the
Mets tied it, and then the next inning I think
this is the sequencing doesn't really matter, but for contact,
I think it was three three at the time Alec
bowm grounds into a double play and then like points.
So what it happened is they had just pulled Senga
for a lefty. So your eyeline, I guess, is going

(06:56):
to be different. He was complaining about a parabolic mic
that's on this like right on the side, like the
very far corner of the batter side for picking up
crowd noise or whatever, right, And I believe they're always there,
but they complained to you.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
We know who they belonged to.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
I think so. I think originally I was recording for
all you kids at this time, so I did not
have the audio.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
You needed.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
The crowd I died the crowd noise, so I but
it was like me and Jared and David and I
think we thought of magical because there was a TBS
game too, so we thought maybe TBS to put them there,
but I guess they're just always there. Okay, they moved
them like slightly off the batter's eye. I don't know

(07:43):
if they were in a different position that night than usual. Sure,
I will point out the Philly started to lefty, so
the Mets had to look directly at the parabolic mic.
But maybe they're used to it. I don't know. But
Alec Bohm like through a fit basically to get them
to move it. They stopped the game and then the
mess end up winning thirteen to three. And now since then,

(08:04):
besides s and hy do you shot the parabloc like,
fans have started bringing their own like they it's like
Arts and Crafts night. They're bringing their own like homemade
parabolock mics to taunt Phillies fans and like, I mean, it's.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Dality, but it's good. It's just like I have.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
So again, I am somewhat biased as a Mets fan.
I think I admit that fully following this team fort
like they're not my team, right, like the daycare stuff
that meaned up, it's not my it's not my memes,
it's not Grimace, it's not the paraboloic mic right. So fine,
everybody can have their own fun. I don't find this
team very likable, the Phillies. I think, like some of

(08:46):
this stuff is like it's like baby shit, like your
professional athletes and like it's it's it. Look, I get
it sucks to keep going to Cityfield loud. They ended
your season last year. Then the next night like obviously
his was it was a terrible zone. I don't want
to be clear, here's this lizard always justify to complain
about the zone.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, like that it was really bad.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
It was really bad. But you can't like you're kind
of it's a rookie umpire, you're gonna have nights like that,
like yeah, but I look.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, I don't have an issue with complaining. No, I agree,
like the bigger picture, it can't be like it can't
be an excuse over a bigger picture, right issue.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
You're in a play. I remember there was a game
in the.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Game, like you're gonna whether it's a rookie ump or not,
like if they're getting it wrong, like they're you're gonna
give it to them.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
There was a Mets Nats game. I think it might
have been twenty It might have been twenty fifteen, where
like it was like one one late and this might
have actually been the It might have been the Flora's
walk off game. I don't remember. I think it was
something in that series, or maybe it was the Labor
Day series where like Harper got thrown out late in
a close game, arguing like and he was right, but like,

(09:57):
you can't get run there right if you're off with
if you're you can get wrong when you've already been
pulled from the game.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
It's fine, you can't look that's the time to do it. Yep.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
You can't let it get in your.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Like you can't get pulled. You're out of here.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, he basically I forget, Like somebody was like trying
to read his lips or something. But it's like basically
it's like this is the majors grow up or something
like like that, something that's going to get you run
and then like yesterday, like again, these are little things
like Taiwan Walker was complaining, Starling Marte was like too
close he wasn't in the on deck circle, and he

(10:31):
was like sneaking peaks at his delivery or something, and.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Look sneaking peaks is always going to get.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, yeah, if you want to understand that, yes, he
clearly was. He told him to move back. He didn't
move back because the umpire has to make you move back.
He didn't do like the Adrian Beltray, like move the
on deck circle, which would have been funny.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
But I think I get where you're coming from.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
On but as it's interest when you're playing badly, it
all adds up, right too, Like it's more noticeable four
in their last ten getting right, I know, when you're
getting swept by your the guy is chasing you, like
I think it's more noticeable, right.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
No, And and look, I also think I'm not this.
This is not how I would behave right, But and
I'm I'm actually talking about the Mets right now, right
like if I'm But but I do have an appreciation.
There's something inside of me, a very petty pettiness inside
of me that appreciates like Starling Marte, like when these

(11:33):
guys are it's not an illegitimate complaint, but it is
one of those things where your mental game. It's like
you're not quite if Taywan Walker is focused on Starling
Marte's position in the in the on deck circle, he's
not as focused as he needs to be on the batter.
In all likelihood, he's not wrong, is not wrong, as

(11:54):
you said, but if if Starling Marte is drawing his
attention on stuff like that, and it's like little ticky
set stuff where like yes, Walker is right, it also
like very little to nothing he can do about it.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
And like Keith and Ann and the Boots to their credits,
like yeah, you're not supposed to do that, like.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Is and it's very petty the part that appreciates this,
but like you're not supposed to do it. And also
you're completely putting them on that, or maybe not completely,
but you're putting them a little bit more on.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Tilt, right, And Lozardo got on tilt originally because Sodo
got a very late time call, which you know pictures
and like.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Sodo it was very late.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
It was right, but like Soto like put his hand up,
like because they only get one time out now, they
pretty much just give it no matter what, and the
ump was clearly going to give it. He just waited
too long, like Soto had already step out of the box.
I don't know if he said time or he didn't.
They didn't make the big right started and that and
then like there was another pitch in that a bat
that was clearly a strike at the bottom of the zone.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well there were they were actually three, like half of
half of the bad calls from that night.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
We're in that single plate appearance. Yeah, it just it
was near the beginning, and so Thozarta was clearly just
shape it is. I mean, it's one of those. To me,
it's a very like and I'm not trying to paint
with a broad brush on all the phillies. I did
not watch. I watched some of the Lozardo game. I
didn't watch all this series, but like it is very
much like a poker you're on tilt thing, right, and

(13:14):
like there are things that other players will do when
that happens that they're not real transgressions, they're not, but
they're just these little little things that chip away at
your mental uh, just like endurance, right, that just cause
you to tumble a little more and a little further.
And I appreciate, you know, watching people who can who

(13:37):
can do that. I find it hard to do. I
don't like, you know, it's it's not a core part
of my personality. But I there's some little bit of
admiration in me for for that kind of stuff. I
because I don't I want to be clearly like, I
just I don't think the Phillies are wrong, and I don't.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Like the only person that you try to get under
the skin of is Kershaw commenter.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
So that's sure. Some people push you too, or honestly,
that's just fun.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
I don't know, it's it's yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Very funny to me.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
You're not mad, you're laughing. No, not laughing.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, I'm patrick. I stepped on No, it's okay. I
don't even remember what it was. I just want to say,
like the Phillies in like Phillies fandom has, it's difficult
for them, Like this is a this is a challenging
year for the Phillies. This is the Phillies have real
season eight sitcom vibes where they're just like, we know
the characters, they don't have any development left to do.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
No, they haven't. That's part of the problem past.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
And it is part of the problem. Like in terms
of baseball. But it's also in terms of part of
the problem, in terms of fantom. I feel like every
time the Phillies do something bad, it's original and interesting,
and every time the Phillies do something well, it's so
boring that it's.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
No way home run. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well, and so this team used to be really fun,
and it used to be you know, and now it's
like the fun has vanished, but the bad stuff is
still there. And so I think it exacerbates how Phillies
fans kind of react because there's no way to react
to the good stuff other than just very conventional woo.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I do think, I do think justin Clue has written
on that kind of notion a number of times for
us at BP, and I think I think that's a
good way to put it. Patrick like they had like
these kind of like funny like you know, C characters,

(15:30):
like not even B character. It was like Nick Nick
Maton and Dalton what's his name Stubbs, Garrett's Garrett Stubbs,
you know, doing the beamed up stuff like boem and.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
And boom was fun until he wasn't right well.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
And it also wasn't even fun. But like there was
you talk about the character development, Right, there's that like
I don't even want to be here moment, it's like whatever.
And and you have Bryson Stott like they were like
the kid, they had the daycare thing, like they had
these things. And now it's I think it's people would
come to work, right, like they come to they work, well,

(16:11):
it work really well. Yep.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
You get to like this part of the Dave and
then then at five they go home, right yeah, but
it's also like okay, like the sitcom vibe, it's like, well,
how are they going to wrap up? Like when are
we going to find out who the mother is? Like
you got.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Full time? Yeah you were talking about yeah, well and
and then you I think the other the other part
of this is you add in the.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Wheeler, the wheeler injury yet.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Injury and announcement of that it's Thorassic outlet and whatever,
and then you lose to understandably. I think the vibes
are dour.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
I think that I'm sorry you went to the How
I Met your Mother ending I was thinking fresh priants.
I'm just thinking of dave E Brawski just looking at
the roster.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Well.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
I think there's also like the Mets again, the Mets
were bad for most of the summer, but you know
they Nolan mcclan came out and through like what eight shutout? Yeah,
yesterday they have Jonah coming up and like where's Andrew Painter?

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Like they're not like right, they're just throwing in new
new characters.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Right yeah, yeah, and not like in like that's not
like cousin Oliver Way either, Like this is.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Like Jonah what I said, I said, I'm gonna say
Jonah than like Jonathan until you attack me. But every
time it's it's just a written thing. Is that every
time I see it's visits Jonah and then it's like
it is almost just Jonathan. His full name is almost
just Jonathan. It throws me off every time Jonathan. I

(17:46):
don't know. I don't even know how I would say
it out, but when I read it, that's what happens.
But like maybe he's poochy, I don't know, right, Like
he could be sent back to the minors, slash his
home world. I don't know, he could blow up, but
it's at least like something.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
And it does like it does you don't It's fine
when you're winning, but when you see the same guys
every day, and the especially I think the kind of
not like the fact that uh bowmanst not really haven't
taken a step forward, Like it's like Shortbird's having a
great season, really really good, but like outside of that,

(18:24):
there's nothing in Cashianos I think has been better than
he has been last couple of years. But there's like
it is very and you're getting the point where like
real Mudo's on the down slope.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Here we well, we've talked about this before and so
I don't want to like spend a ton of time
on it, but it is it is the same team
with the same flaws. Like they have not fixed they
they try, they're trying these kind of lower effort fixes
of Max Kepler or whatever, but they haven't gone out
and just fixed the basic issue. So when new issues

(19:01):
crop up, they're more damaging. Right Like if you if
you had fixed center field somehow, like legitimately fixed it,
then you know Bryson Stott start and Alec Bahum having
even slightly down years for them aren't as big of
a problem. And of course we're saying this about a
first place team, Like the problems aren't that dramatic, right,

(19:23):
But how it feels is different, and they're.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Gonna they're gonna walk into the playoffs, and like it's
a good lineup, right, It's a good pitching staff, even
with Wheeler, like Sanchez and Lozardo, I mean had the
two up starts in the middle of the year.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
But fine, he's got like an eighty Yeah, Like yeah,
it's been a lot of sequencing for him too, and.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Like you'd absoutely want Wheeler the problem like that bullpen
right now. Like I know they've brought in David Robertson,
but like I know, Jordan, they've put on the IL finally,
but that's been a lot of Jordan Romano games derogatory
in there.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, but this is kind of my This is kind
of my point. And the other thing I was going
to say was it's and it's funny because they don't
really go together. But like when you don't have look
we're talking about, you get used to the same cast
of characters and when you don't have like already made
fix essentially, like I I.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Think, I mean, they traded for Johann Durant, who promptly
did four absolute answer the baby bloop gave up like
four absolute rockets in a tie game. To lose, which, look,
he throws a hundred and two, but you throw a
hundred and two down the middle, guys are gonna time it.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
But we're just saying when when there you've seen that.
We've seen this before with teams where they kind of
go and and and look like I think the Dodgers
tried to do this with their bullpen earlier this in
the in the off season, right like they when when
you don't give yourself a move to me, yeah, when
you're basically saying like we're gonna go with this one
way or the other, start to.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Go a little bit. I think you need to freshen
up the roster a little bit.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
That's what I'm saying. You want to give yourself some
change you can make, even cosmetic, because it feels like
something like, oh, at least we can like talk about this.
But when you just go in and say like this
is it? Yeah, then and and again, I know that
the Phillies did trade for you and to round, that's
not a that's not even a small change. That's that's
an impact move to the bullpen. But like it's also

(21:22):
a bullpen move, like it's.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
A they do of those every year anyway, So.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
I just they also signed Max Kepler, who is maybe
the most forgettable.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Bad Yes, I honestly often forget he's on that.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah. And and did they they traded for Bader? Yeah, Oh,
I'm not even that he's been bad, But like I
don't in my head like he's been a Philly before.
I don't know, like it's maybe too perfect and I
don't know, Yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's funny
because like again, reality doesn't quite support the case that

(21:58):
we're making like they've made change. It just doesn't feel.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
It doesn't feel like it. Yeah, and I think a
lot of it is Bowman Stott just sort of being
there and not improving, right. And then you've got the
rest of the team that's on a very outside of
real Muto, on a very like gentle decline. But still
you know they're older players, Like you keep always feeling
with the Phillies like this is the best it's ever

(22:21):
going to be for them, This is the best chance
ever going to have. And look, I think they'll probably.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
I mean, like he's still a league. He was one
of five ops plus two years ago, one of six
last year, and he's ninety nine this year.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
No, he's like, he's not bad, he's not as good
a defender as he used to be.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
I'm just saying, it's not even a sharp decline.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
No, but I saw like it's just.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
The very edge of like it's a it's a gentle decline.
But he is at the edge of the right.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Phillies fans I saw, I feel like because of the
bad zones were like, it's I think.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
It's it's it's gone down an Yeah, because he's.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
A Phillies fans were noting like, oh, Phillies going to
umpire scorecard, like they've lost almost the most runs in
the Majors and the Mets are towards the top, and like,
you know, the Mets have a good framing catchers that
actually measures in a lot of cases.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, weird.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, No, I was talking to how p fans just
blame umpires and half the circumstances and half and the
catcher the other half.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
It's it's funny watching it. Yeah, I guess I was
just asking because he has like two and a half
our work already. She doesn't even so I don't know
if he's.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
He's not bad, but he's not all starve he used
to be sure.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Sure, Uh, anything else do you want to talk about
in that series?

Speaker 3 (23:36):
I mean no, I mean, if you care. The Phillies
are still like seven to one favorites here to win
the division.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
So I mean I was gonna say, I just want
to reset this at for for all of that, for
a little context, they remain four up in the division.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
They do, yeah, and they still played other four more
times in Philly, so they did.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Drop to the third best record in the National League.
So that's something. Uh. Yeah, I think they're a game
and a.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Half and look for the Mets, they swept the This
is a big It was a huge swing for them
because they swept the Phillies and the Reds got swept
by the Dodgers. So they're now four and a half
up in the well, like they're kind of putting some
distance between them and the Reds before they didn play
the Reds I think in a week or two.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, yeah, all right, Jeff, you're gonna have to do
this because I don't know the tune.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, I mean, it's that's exactly what you think it is.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, but I don't know is it is it a
song or a champ It's a chant.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, up the Baseball League.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
We go Okay, look, I don't know, uh this is uh,
we're gonna talk about Patrick's article. Yeah, you guys, go
ahead and talk about Patrick's article.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
The article.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Oh I uh.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
So I wrote about the Twins last week and wrote
about how depressing it was that the Poleads decided not
to sell, not because the Pullouds are the worst owners
in baseball because they're not even bottom five, but more
that they can just decide not to and the Twins can't.
Twins fans really just can't do about it. Anything about
it is they just kind of get condemned to another
three or four years of probable penny pinching and a

(25:12):
decent bowl, a decent farm system basically supplying them with
like free five hundred teams for a while.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
It was a depressing article because there was really no
good solutions, like there's nothing you can.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Do about that, Twins.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
So yeah, so, so I decided to write a solution
with some help from and Trival listener Brendan Glowski. He
suggested that maybe I should pay attention to your European football.
I ignored that request for a while and then thought.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
About it a little longer. Uh.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Basically, I wrote about the possibility of consumer unions and saying,
what if baseball fans actually like tried to organize the
way that soccer fans do, particularly in Europe, but they
do have there there is some force for organizing in
the States, like the Oakland sixty eight's, the the booster

(26:05):
club for the athletics that did that engineered all the
fan fests and protests when John when Fisher basically just
kind of noped out. They're part of a larger group
of which now they are, you know, a soccer group
just like all the other ones, because they still support
all the soccer teams and everything in Oakland.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
But it was the idea of like, what if you just.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Like organize fans to actually protest in general for when
owners do terrible things and when they just try to gouge.
And I don't know if this is you know, possible.
America doesn't really do this, and baseball isn't really perhaps
the first sport to try it out with right generally,

(26:48):
we're you know, baseball fans are kind of middle ground
as far as political leanings go. You know, you've got
your equal share of right wing and left wing fans.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
It's just but the idea of like being able to
actually demand that maybe the things you buy could be better.
There was I suppose it would have been good if
I thought of this during the editing process, but but
I'm thinking of it now. And there was a like
during the last c B A and lockout, like the

(27:20):
CBA negotiating lock lockout, there was some stuff about like
a fan, yeah they're fans getting a seat in then
at the bargaining table in this thing and whatever, and
like it was the most eye rolly Yes, it was
shit I've ever seen.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
Yeah, and that and you know, but that's not quite
what you're well sort of yeah, it's sort of like
but you can't be It also needed to be present,
less of.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
A parks and rec kind of way. Yeah yeah, right,
but this this stuff needs to be you know, it
really needs to be ground, you know, grassroots, right small,
you know, you know, participation people. You know, like in
the article, there aren't actually a ton of these booster clubs,
but they do exist for a number of teams. Like

(28:10):
for someone who doesn't know what they are, what they do,
do you want to Yeah? Sure, so, uh they're they're basically.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Take another shot at my mother. Uh, they're basically rotary clubs. Essentially,
they're rotary clubs that have a baseball affiliation and they
go out and basically do charity and also help out
with like selling tickets. And it's just kind of a
way for people who want to feel like they're part
of the team but not actually be part of the team,

(28:39):
to kind of connect and help the team out and
also use that connection to you know, you know, fund
fund a bunch of little league teams and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
They do have the idea, especially I think in the
in the English soccer pyramids, every town has one of
these clubs, right Like. They're very much community clubs. You
can go you can go to Grimsby and go to
grim like there, go to Grimsby Town and it's like
the park is right in the middle of like a
neighborhood or housing development or a shopping center whatever, you know,
a little downtown strip and you can go to a

(29:10):
game every Saturday at three pm right wherever you are
in England, at any number of levels right.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Right And and the difference for these booster clubs is
that they're all basically club affiliated and they were all
around in the sixties basically when baseball started to have
this downturn and needed some help to like drum up
some support from their local team because they were like,
oh no, there's football now, and there's like people can
just stay home and watch TV. But they hadn't figured out,

(29:36):
you know, how to get revenue off of TV.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
And so those those clubs are all like supported by
the team and work with the team as opposed to
the sixty eights. And a lot of these soccer organizations
were truly independent.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
That some of them are affiliated. So Sheffield Wenesday has
about eleven of these. I'm a member of OWLS America's,
which is the American supporter group that's you know, part
of the engagement panel that like does meet with the
owner occasionally. It's gotten more contentious lately for a variety
of reasons, like the meeting on Wednesday did not happen
for a variety of reasons. But uh, you know it

(30:12):
is it's uh, you know, we're an officially recognized supporter group,
like the club website will post about our national meetup
and things like that, so there is a there's a
relationship on that level. But You're right, there's no direct influence.
We do charity stuff. We did a charity jersey to
raise money for next Goalkeepers kids like cancer treatments and
things like that, but there's no like you cannot actually,

(30:38):
especially in England, like directly influence say your owner to
sell or to pay salaries on time, which is start
an issue there. It's different specifically in and this is
you know, the more I think, the more direct comparison,
and like English soccer has had trouble dealing with that
because it used to be I talk about like the

(30:58):
community club thing. These are huge business Like it's very
much like some of those like sixties and seventies, like
David Ross has written about this, like the owner used
to be just like the local car dealer magnet, right,
or it's like used to be a lot more. You know,
it used to be very locally based, like it was
the local rich guy owned your team proximity, yeah, and

(31:19):
wanted to win like and this was true more true
for soccer I think into the last really since the
Premier League started up in the nineties. But you go
to Germany you have the fifty plus one rule where
like the club has to be fifty percent fan owned. Yeah,
I been they have the deciding boat on the board
for like, you know, functionally, does that really change the

(31:41):
way these teams are run? No, but it's an actual
like it's a stop gap against a situation like the
pollads right.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Right right, And you know England, you know you suggested something, Jeff,
and it was a really good idea. Was that England
actually has you know, they passed a law little a
month ago, yes, basically instituting an independent arbiter to basically
serve as the commissioner of soccer of football and it's

(32:14):
basically rom Man print if row Man Print didn't actually
just work for his teams to do everything the owners wanted.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Right, I mean, the the other difference here is like
the Minnesota Twins will never go away, there's no flight
like where you've seen soccer clubs like Bury is probably
the major one, but like Wednesday's on thin ice right now,
Morecambe is in worship than Wednesday. They finally did just
get a get a sale. And again these are not
you know, Wednesday is one of the bigger clubs to
have this happened to. But you know, like Morecambe for

(32:43):
you know, it should matter that Morecambe might not have
a team right like it should, and like with baseball,
this doesn't. There's no mechanism for financial mouthfeasans short of
you know, Drayton McLain declaring bankruptcy or you know them
Court's doing whatever weird thing they were doing with the
TV deal right like, because like there's no, it's not

(33:06):
a cartel, right, these are all small independent businesses competing
with each other on some level.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Right, the way that baseball is it used to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm I'm going to be out of my depth on
this subject. But like the whole the whole stuff that
happened with Barcelona, m like, and that's obviously but I'm
not saying they were going to go out of business
because they're Barcelona and they wouldn't. But like that that
level of shakiness, But there was a lot of when

(33:32):
I was reading about it, and now I'm trying to
remember what I'm reading.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
About is not real. Lega can't hurt you, they just
like the rules for La Liiga are.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
But also there was a lot related to like the
maybe not the booster club, but like the non there's
like not quite the soccer team, but also the Barcelona.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
So Barcelona is it's not just it's a sporting group.
The soccer team is part of the sporting group, which
it's just fairly common in space, in Portugal especially, Yeah,
although also Germany and Turkey I think have a lot
of them as well. But yes, I mean like Barcelona
has a good basketball team for I think one example, right,
but yeah, the the soccer club is generally speaking horribly

(34:14):
in debt all the time.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
But it's also like the the level of I don't know,
maybe I'm wrong and I'm misremembering, but it felt to
me like at the the way I'm remembering, it is
like the if you were part of Barcela, like if
you if you were a member of the club or
what you get, but like you get access to a

(34:38):
lot of actual information like these people were the details
of the financial details of this or like they have
like I'm not saying they can actually influence the board,
but like the things that they they have a like
a scoch.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
More requel No, you literally get to vote on the
chairperson of the clubs. It's true.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
For right, it was like right or whatever.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
They're always it's Barcelona, They're always in bubble.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Well, but I guess I'm just saying, like you get there,
there is a little there's there's more recourse. Yeah here,
and then I I don't want to to just jump
over what Patrick's talking about. What what you mentioned in
terms of this happening in England, like the person that
what just passed and what they're installing, I guess is

(35:25):
what people think the commissioner is Yes, yeah, like obviously
not most people listening to this podcast or whatever, but
like people think the commissioner acts in the best interests
of baseball because there's the best interest of baseball. Clocks right,
that gets brought up, right, But it's not baseball. It's
ownership obviously, But it wouldn't it be nice?

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, And and tying back to the Twins like that
is when the Twins say they're going to do what's
best for the Twins, it's the same exact version of
the Twins that baseball is for baseball.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
One of the one of the issues they might come
across with the Independent Arbiter is, you know, it's baseball
is just baseball. It's a closed system, right. You know,
the EFL and the Premier League are members of UEFA
and their members of FIFA, which of course has a
rule about the government interfering with soccer activities, right, but
again that gets that rule exists when it when it

(36:17):
needs to exist.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Worrying about the government interfering with soccer activities. Yes, yeah,
it's very good.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
It's a good bit.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
But you know, like every time, like yeah, the Premier
League complained bitterly about this decision, right because they.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
Don't do right. They don't want to to.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Be allowed to they want to be allowed to do
their mouthfeas.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Right, Well, they're going to get their point deduction before
Manchester City does and that case has been going on
for it feels like a decade now.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well, I also, my mind did go back to kind
of the reaction to the whole Super League Yes fiasco,
and I don't know how much came through these official
booster clubs versus just general fan sentiment, but like it
it was.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
I mean, I think they just kind of announced it
as a trial balloon basically, and the trial balloon it got.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Almost unimaginable in twenty twenty five to conceive of people
at the level of those those owners, some of which
are also MLB owners, We should like actually taking like

(37:20):
visceral feedback from a fan base and yeah, reacting to it,
just not plowing ahead. I guess even if it was
just a trial balloon, and that's the whole point. It's
usually like at this point, it's like I see a
trial balloon and everyone's like, that's bad, don't do it.
And they're like, well, we're doing it. Yeah, Like well,
I mean Rob Manford and Pete Rose right exactly exactly,

(37:43):
which will we're it's just a balloon. Yeah, yeah, there's
no trial, but that that could be. I was gonna say,
let's take a break, but I think it let's just
plow ahead. Actually, I'll plow ahead into our third segment
because when you can go to the roundup. Speaking of
potentially planning, uh, I guess Rob Manfred and and he Rose. Uh.

(38:07):
Our our president has a further thoughts on the Hall
of Fame. Yes, I don't have the post in front
of me. I'm not gonna but he he played golf
with Roger Clemens and came away thinking that Roger Clemens
should be in the Hall of Fame. He's not a

(38:29):
quote unquote druggie for the president. I don't know. This
is part of our third segment, which is the Roundup.
We wanted to cover some articles on the site, so
also an easy transition for talking about Patrick's article. So yeah,
so yeah. Stephen Goldman wrote about this for the site today.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
I mean this is like a different this is different
than Rose in way like Roger Clemens is currently eligible
for the Hall of Fame. Yes, yeah, is very much.
He could seem to go into the Veterans Committee on
a normal cycle or whatever. I don't know what it is.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
I love My favorite thing of the Social post is
when he says, I mean lists of Clemens accomplishments, which
statistically speaking, they are.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Oh yeahs Like look, there's an argument that if you're
you know, just like if all this, if all the
steroid are alleged steroid users should be put in then yeah,
I mean Roger Clemens was one of the five best
pictures in baseball history something like that ten best.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah. You know they talk about numbers.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, he talks about the drugs, which, you know, the sterings,
which she denies there's.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
Ever positive, right, well he doesn't remember.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, but I'm my favorite part was the six and
played in six World Series winning two exclamation mark it's
just not winning two World series great accomplishment, not an
exclamation mark worthy thing, you know, Louis Soho I think
gets three exclamation marks. I don't know, just very strange.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah. So so we're just like this is basically this
is this is politics things, as Goldman writes, like this
is fascism, trying to make sure that fascism is part
of everything, right, like this is this is your your government,
this to be like the president presumably has other ships

(40:33):
to worry about things that are part of this actual job. Yeah.
But but as Steve.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Las, I mean, on one level, I wish he would
be working more on this than of the other things
he's doing.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Fair enough, but but yeah, the the as Steve lays
out an intro, is like one of the things about
it is like you can't just have your stuff that's
separate from everything, has to be to come back to either.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
All they're all levers of power to put right right.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah exactly. Yeah. So like I don't think this will
actually will this change roder clements trajectory.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
I don't think, because like the change Berry Bones. Actually,
I think because there's like no story out of this,
like roderi Clements just remains eligible. I mean, I guess
it was a story it was reported on, but just
remains eligible for the Hall of Fame, right like Rose
being reinstated in its own thing in a way that

(41:29):
you know, Clement, this is no different than like this.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Is this is a w an call, right Like, it's
no different than.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Like a random you know, Boston Boston columnists writing at home.
This is Dustin Pedroia should be in the Hall of Fame,
right like it's it's the same slightly bigger megaphone.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
I guess it's Uh, did you guys find it interesting
at all? That? And look, I'm not saying there's any
real veracity to this. You can't trust anything, I mean,
but uh that he said Manfred agreed to to like
put Rose in the Hall or whatever. And then like

(42:08):
now Trump is mad about.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
The like maybe Trump's maybe Trump thought that when Manfred
made him eligible, he would just go in automatically.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Well I don't even know if it was like I'll
put him in, but it's he's now like riping about
in this same posting about how the fact that it's
like he didn't actually reinstate Rose, he changed the eligibility
for I mean, he did, but like he's saying, it's
like because he's he basically wanted like a full or not.

(42:38):
It's just that he's eligible and and so. But like
he said, like Manfred agreed to this and then basically
implemented it in a different way, and like.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
I cannot possibly care about conversations between the president and
Rob Manfred.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Well, okay, because the results matter, apparently, I don't know.
I think it's notable. It was raised an eyebrow to me.
It's notable if he's just saying, yes, sir, whatever you want, sir.
I don't know. Let's move on the next one. Yeah,
We've got other articles.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
But the big one I think for this week was
Jonathan Judge wrote a piece for us in.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
On Friday Friday.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
About adversarial pitch location and the the idea behind this
is very interesting to me. The idea is that we measure,
like most pitch location stuff is based on where pitches
should generally go, Like that pitches on the bottom, you know,
the outside bottom corner, are better than pitches up and

(43:50):
up and straight in the middle. But you know what
Judge is writing about is that, you know, it actually
depends on what the hitter wants, and that some hitters
are better at hitting certain pit others, and so throwing
to locations where the hitter is bad at hitting them
is more important than throwing to pitches throwing too locations
where the league is bad at hitting.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Right. So this is it's individualizing your attack plan, right,
which is this is not new in baseball, right, Like
we've we've been talking about and looking at heat maps
for batteris for a very long time. Right, But what's
that but not really internalizing them.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I feel like, yeah, other than a few most people,
most people don't really think about where most hitters are
good or bad at hitting. I feel like, well, so
what what I thought that the interesting part of this
piece was is not just uh, look, everything in baseball
is an interaction, right, so you have to be you

(44:49):
also have to be good at pitching to the place
that the batter is weak in. Right, And this is
something we've seen, I think, uh a lot of in
small portions in recent years. Right when we're talking about
the granularity of Hunter Brown adding a mediocre to bad

(45:11):
sinker because he needs something that can can move armside,
because he couldn't hit the locations he needed to hit
against certain hit against a lot of hitters, not just
certain ones, but these guys who had weaknesses in on
their hands. He had nothing that bore in on their hands, right,

(45:32):
that would then open them up to the places he
was actually really good at pitching too.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Right. And as we see this, Jeff, you see this
all the time into a cutters, right, Like even it's
if it's a bad cutter, Like I need to be
able to get a pitch with a movement profile that
can get me into this portion of the zone because
otherwise I'm stuck pitching my good pitches against their good zones.
And that's frankly, for a lot of guys, that's not

(45:58):
good enough. And so that's what I think is is
I agree, I agree with you, Patrick, But like you know,
we've all MLB the show has had hit or hot
songs for years, right, Like we know where the guys
are good at hitting it, and where we know about
swing paths to some of the like no one is
confused about like where Max Munsey likes the ball, right, But.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
You just need to give you a picture that outlier sinker.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
But what what this what Judge talks about here? And
it really is interesting is like then being able to
eventually credit pictures who do this. Well, it's about it's
about or I don't even I don't want to say
a signing, but about acknowledging, being able to acknowledge the
guys who do this. And I thought one of the

(46:44):
best things was he has these, uh he has tables
in the article about like who's who's good at this?
And like jose Kintana, Yeah, you know twenty twenty four.
Jose Kintana, for example, is elite at this. He's in
the ninety ninth percentile. Kyle Hendrix is in the ninety
nine percentile. These are guys who again have to be
good at this, right, because it's not their stuff. You

(47:05):
want to know who's in the ninety eighth percentile in
twenty twenty four. Paul Skans yea. And that explains That's
part of what explains why Paul Skins is so goddamn
good is that he's got not only the stuff of
Paul Skans, right, but he's he's very.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Those other guy that's continually added pitches too, even despite
the good.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Well, what you could go forever on Paul Skans in
that Like I think, what's fascinating and I should honestly
get like see if I can get Mario or someone
to write about this. But like he just doesn't, like
he had starts recently where he just didn't throw the splinker,
Like he's just like, I'm not using two of my
pitches today, I'm using this. But part of that is

(47:46):
I'm sure is a plan that says I know what
what can beat these guys and where I need to
do it, and I don't need this other thing to
do it, and I can I can do it this way.
It's it's just And again I would point out hose
Kintana is at the top of the leader board in
twenty twenty five, Hunter Brown, Zach Wheeler, like these are
guys who are again like it makes sense both even

(48:09):
even for power pitchers, but guys again, Zach Wheeler. One
of the reasons he's as dominant as he is is
because he's got the stuff, but he also knows how
to break down a hitter in that specific way. It's
a very cool art.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
I'm sorry, I know that I would I would just
say that the black box is going to get black
box ear because this is just another layer of you know,
of our statistic getting better by being more complicated, and.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
That's how it's going to be so tough. Accept it.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
You want simple stats, you know, go to other places.
Mario Delgado Gonzoor wrote an article about Hurston Waldrip and
how a mediocre pitch has helped him. I don't know
if there's like the problem with Mario's pieces is that
they're they're just good, and they're very like in in
a way that they're hard to talk about because he

(49:02):
just basically makes an argument improves it mostly through through
video analysis. I don't know, is there anything to say
other than Waldrop is just like basically way better than
we thought he'd be, especially in the first half of
this year because of this splitter.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah, I mean, I'd be interested in Jeff's take on Waldrop.
I think the interesting thing about Waldrop is he was
really bad ye for a while, and and you know,
I think we've seen we've seen pictures kind of do this, right,
a Hunter Brown being one of them, right where it's
it's like something that's not working and if they can
fix that something, it's fine. But the question is like

(49:38):
how long how long is it going to last? Right?
Because even the start after this article came out. Waldrop
had not a bad start, but it was like five
and a third with eight hits and one strikeout or
something like that. Like it's that it wasn't like dominance,
you know what I mean. But like even Brandon Sprute
is kind of doing this right where it's like and

(49:59):
it's it's not just the pitch that he added, right.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Like Nolan MacLean got off to a particularly not not
a great start in Triple A this year, and part
of it was, you know, his his four seam fastball
shape and command is not that good. It comes from
a low arm release point, low release point, it's not
like a low arm slot, but and it's like ninety

(50:27):
five ish, so that's going to get hit in Triple A, right, Yeah,
And they basically around. He's always had a sinker, but
around a couple of months ago, maybe maybe like juneish,
he started throwing his sinker a lot more and starts
than it's foreseen and it's not I mean, it has
a lot of armside movement, but it's not like a
great pitch. But he can get it in, you know,

(50:51):
he can front hip it to lefties, he can get
it inside the right Ey's you know, it's still ninety
it's ninety five. It had a lot of armside movement
and just gives him another option, gives him a contact
suppression option too, which he doesn't really happen that arsenal,
like the the breaking ball stuff is all pretty chase dependent.
The cutter is not a great contact pressure pitch before

(51:13):
it seems certain is it certainly isn't.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
So.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
Yeah, you said you're like trying You're always trying to
fill holes in the arsenal, like were talking about you
were referenced like a bridge cutter. I think earlier you're
always trying to fill holes in the arsenal. Look, there
are guys they can just get by, like Sean and
I have basically threw two pitches. At the end of
last year, when he started to like his last start,
he threw his change up a little more. You know,
he started to like.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Well, guys adapt like it's all about it is about adaption. Yeah,
I just think again, this is this is Waldrip essentially
training out for the most part of a four seamer
for a sinker.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Right, which and like Waldrip when he was one of
the reasons like he had a fairly easy developmental lay
up when the Ellena drafted him because he comes from
the University of Florida. The University of Florida is very
much established your fastball in all four quadrants. And like

(52:13):
the initial change they made is not just that your
fastball up at the top of his own set up
your splitter down. And that worked great in the minors,
and then it didn't because visually hitters are better at
sucking that out. But the thinker does give him another option, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Right, and and it's and he has like a fastball
with some cut on it that he also throws, right,
So this is all stuff again tunneling wise, that makes
a ton of sense. And when you throw a splitter
and you have multiple fastball looks on top of it,
it just.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Never really developed a particularly good glove side option either.
So I know the fastball does is a bit of
a it can be a bit of a cut rde pitch.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
But yeah, I think there's also if people are thinking
some of these problems sound familiar, it sounds a lot
like Rokie Susaki, which Mario mentions in the article right like,
and his his splitter is an No, it's not quite Sizaki's,
but it sometimes moves armside and sometimes goes straight down
and maybe sometimes a little bit of of glove side movement.

(53:11):
But it is uh, you know, sometimes it it looks
straight up like a vertical slider. I mean that's not
you know at times. Yeah, I mean it is. Uh.
But some of this also is like Waldrip leaked velocity
a little bit and then it came back. And that's
also a big, big part of the success too, right,

(53:31):
is that.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Like Brandon is growing ninety nine again instead of ninety
six ninety seven.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
And all of a sudden, that's that's a big it
is especially if you have a certain characteristics your friends, Well,
that's a big difference.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
All of this stuff is a is a continuum, right,
for all of these traits, whether it's fastball shape, whether
it's BAA and they all interact in different ways, right,
But what we do know is you throw ninety nine
instead of ninety seven, it's better.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
That's a way.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Elicity is a very very clear like shelf stat in
a way. That's some of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, And I guess the interesting part about Waldrop is
like he fell off a lot of people's radars, right
because he came up. I had two awful starts and
then wasn't particularly better in the minors. And right, well,
and it's also like the Braves didn't the Braves lost
their entire rotation.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
And rights Elder again, right is Carrasco and.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Right Eric Eric Fetty right, like these are the guys.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Getting rung And like, then, now did I just see
that the Brewers Brewers, I knew a team that was
like in the playoff pick that makes sense, But.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
But Waldrop came up to came back to essentially no fanfare,
like you would be forgiven for not knowing. He came
back and then reeled off four really nice starts in
the majors. And honestly, it's again I ran down his
fifth one like it was good enough. He got the
job done. You know, this was a guy we were

(55:01):
very high on coming out of the draft because partially
because of what you said, Jeff, like there were there
was low hanging fruit for him and the org he
landed and was pretty good at at you know, picking
that fruit. Yes, So, like I guess my question is,
given the volatility we've seen here, like, what how do

(55:22):
you read it going forward? For him? Like you just
expecting is this Spencer Schwellenbach like he's good now until he's.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Hurt or Schwellenbach had like a more linear progression. I
mean he's certainly jumped, like he formed better in the
major or something think we expected. But yeah, yeah, Schwamback's
also a guy where it's multiple pitches all interacting with
each other in a way where it isn't with even
still with Walter, but he's still gonna live and die
on this.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah. And and honestly, the name that came up when
I was thinking about when when this article ran with
Bryce Miller, Yeah, Bryce Miller, and Bryce Miller also basically
works North South and he had that one piece fall
apart and now he is not good. So it's you know,
when these things can come together quickly, they also can

(56:09):
fall apart real quickly. Yeah, I mean this is also
if you want to go back further, and we didn't
have the again the granularity that we do now. But
like this is Kevin Gossman sure in a lot of ways, right,
and like the Braves had Kevin Gossman too. Yeah, it
is a good article. Patrick, you want to oh, yeah,
one last one.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Alexander Whitley in her latest box scour banner kind of
a secondary piece. She tossed in a part about bat throwing,
which is of course the Sam Miller a favorite. But
apparently last weekend.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
No it's not the victor.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
No, no, that that dropping not Keith Hernandez. We're talking
about bat dropping. So in a game between the Mets
and Brewers, and there was the Mets and brus or
the Giants Brewers iceburs Uh. Basically, there was a squeeze
play and when when Drew Gilbert laid down the squeeze

(57:09):
and then dropped his bat in the path of the
plate so that when the runner came in to slide,
he couldn't slide for the plate because there was a
bat blocking it, which is the opposite of what you
want to do, right right, But then the joke was
that Contreras noticed this and got you know, made the play,

(57:29):
made the tag.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
You know, Mantus was out.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
And then later on Contreras hit a foul ball pop
up and he starts running down the line and Patrick
Bailey is also running up the line with him because
he then Contrera's you know, so Contreras is like, well,
I can't throw, I can't drop the bat because I
don't want to drop it in front of Bailey, So
then he just runs halfway down the line and dropped

(57:51):
it in front of Tominick Smith as he's coming in
looking up to make the play, and everyone got very mad.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Uh I don't I'm not really sure what what contrarasts
like was Contrarass thinking about this, Like, it doesn't seem
like he wasn't. I also don't know, like could you
just throw the bat inside? Like I know we don't
the bad ways it's thrown in foul territory, but if
the ball's in foul territory, I think he just tossed

(58:18):
the bat on the left side of the first base
line out of everyone's way. Well, I mean you've seen
it land in fair fair territory before when many of
the things if you look at Sam's articles, I don't
buy Contreras's argument. I think he did on purpose. Yeah, well,
I mean the other thing is like also to pop fly,
like you could take a half second to just like

(58:39):
toss it in a safe area, but you're not. He
wasn't busting it down the line right.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
It's it's not like Contraras's was going to end up
with a single and be on first base with a bat,
like he could have just stayed in.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Well, so if the pop up was going down the
first base line, if he had just dropped it initially, Yeah,
that's true, it would have been fine. Yeah, yeah, just
very funny to me. I don't you know. There's no
nothing to take away, just a little whimsy. Yeah, the
band like the bat once once you hit the ball,
the bat is really a liability to baseball on is

(59:12):
what I love about Sam's love of this, right, is
that like it is about like whether it's eyes are
dropping it in inconvenient places on the bat becomes a problem, Yeah,
to the rest of baseball. After that, it's very much
like what do I do with my hands? Yeah, it's
not your hands.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
It's like it's like it's essentially like taking you know,
a woman, taking a person to the club and being like, well, shin,
I got to hold.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
This now, right, It's it's a clutch. Yeah, all right,
all right, let's take a break. We'll come back with
the rest of the show. Welcome back to episode four

(01:00:06):
hundred and eighty seven of five and Dive. We're on
our fourth segment going around the Horn. Jeffrey, it's time
to kick back and relax. It's actually time for me
to kick back and yeah, fun, Yeah, Joe Adell has
reached the thirty homer plateau. Yes, now we have looked

(01:00:29):
as a little little sub segment title. We did it, Joe. Sure,
we're meming, that's fine. Yeah, but have we done anything? Look,
this is if you want to go off reference for
a sub one more.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
Yeah. No, I'm just saying he's.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Actually up to He's exactly a one now. Oh okay,
last night brought him from point nineto one break.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
I can't control that. The Angels continue to play in
the center field and they probably use a Goals Love
finalist in a corner last year.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Okay, that was also a trap.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
I'm just saying that's a thing that happened.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Yeah, what did we do? Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
We never gave up, hope, we never guess what we did.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
We were never wrong. We were only early, and we remain.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
I wrote a future thirty home run hitter, and here
we are.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Well, yeah he's not. Look there's room for there's room
for thirty five here.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Yeah, yeah, there's some room under at urbies. He's got
eighty two. I know we care about that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
What was it that Jinny put in our chat about
Joe adel Oh. He was the he's basically the baseball
equivalent of those soldiers in on the islands who don't
realize the wars over right. Yeah, she's the saying he
doesn't realize he's like he's a busted prospect. He's just
still going on. Yeah. Well, and he is kind of
still a prospect, right in that way, like there's there

(01:01:46):
he continues to develop. I mean, he's very much not
a prospect. He's twenty six and yeah, but in the
sense that, like you still think he could be good.
M even if he's not. I throughout what's that we
all have so much potential giving right, right, there's still
unrealized potential gifts. Right is like the kind of a

(01:02:09):
I threw out in light of his uh lack of
kind of wins above replacement but still having a thirty
homer season. I said, this is feeling like very Chris
Carter to me, you know, like everyone at the time,
there was a lot of like, yes, and he's not
as good a hitter as Chris Carter. He also has
not had a season as good as Chris Carter. Yes,

(01:02:33):
so you know it's tough, but he did it. I look,
there's there's obviously he needs he needs to get out
of the organization. Yes, we've been saying I don't know
that he's good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
We're not wrong. We are just early on that certainly.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Yeah, look, I'm not I would never promise that he
will be better somewhere else. But the only chance he
is somewhere else, you know what I mean, two more years.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
It's been so good now that, like I know, I
started good enough. They're not gonna move him now because
he felt me like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Next years. Yeah. Elsewhere in baseball, Anthony Volpe is drawing
a lot of attention. Yes, this is this had to
be jef maximum. No, No, that's that was a Patrick Wow,
didn't it didn't up on that vernacular? Yeah? Patrick, well done? Figure?

(01:03:33):
Uh do you want to throw out? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I typed it in I deserve to say it. Eleven games,
thirty eight play appearances. He is batting twenty seven twenty
seven fifty four.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
That's not good. He's dropped his ops forty points in
like the final hard to read my slash line is
twenty seven twenty seven fifty four. Is that good? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
I just like this quote. I think this is from
a scout in the Yankees organization. He's there's no this
I want to say. This is Rumsfeldian. There is really
no real answer to say, hey, this is specifically why
this guy is inconsistent. Sometimes you say that when a
guy's work is inconsistent, but there's nothing inconsistent about the way.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
He works, So they're saying that's not an effort. Issue
is inconsistency is not consistent enough to create a through
line of why he's inconsistent. He has different reasons for
his inconsistency from season to season, which, of course the
joke is that, of course that his final slash lines

(01:04:35):
are incredibly consistent, incredibly consistent. Yeah, that is the punch line.
Vulbe constantly changes things. Yes, I don't know if I guess,
I don't know if that's good or bad. Like I
don't know the way things are going. But but and
yet like because he's not hitting, it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
Seems like it works for a little bit. Maybe he
just to change things more often.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
A constant.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
If he stopped, if he's it's like a shark to
be stopped feeling.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
The other thing going on with the Vulpe is like
his defense is cratered.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Right, sometimes you do bring it into the field.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
I guess, yeah, yeah, I mean, look, it's also funny
how this is like this is just another way for
people to be mad about Aaron Boone, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
But also these are these are the same people that
we're talking about. Is like an All Star at the
beginning of the season when he had the torpedo bat
own stuff, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
It also I would know, I mean, and and this
is I honestly do feel bad for the guy. Like
the hes put up what eleven runs early.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
And he made the night first nine outs or something.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
They batted around in one and he made the first
and third out of.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Yes, so yeah, the state of Anthony vulpe slump. This
is a River Avenue Blues post Stumblusky. He just became
the first Yankee to make two outs in an inning
since Anthony volpey tenth.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Well, I don't, I mean, you can't fix it if
you're the Yankees right now, right, Like this is to
go back to kind of the Phillies discussion. This is
like you just gotta Yeah, they don't have another shortstop
option really, so I guess we're just gonna keep trotting

(01:06:29):
him out there, right? Yeah? Is it something where like
and I have not been following his season other than
noting that it's bad like that closely, Like have they
given him three days to clear his head?

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
I don't like else to play there, though, if you
listen to Yankees fans, they could just call up Dax Kelby.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
So he has been showing up in the minor league
updates three, I'm sure he has. Yeah, I don't know
anything else on Volpe, No, probably not who has been
playing like Wolpe has played one hundred and twenty seven
of the HIG than thirty three games.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
I assume traded him.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Yeah, has gotten three starts in the last two weeks.
I would look again, not that I wouldn't even know
what he's supposed to do with it, but I might
just see, like basically, show up as little as possible
for three days, and we're gonna play hosing.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Kevaliera, go Home Chicken Palm, right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Exactly, honestly. Uh, Yeah, I don't know. Uh we mentioned
it before, but uh, Jonathan Jonathan is coming up. Uh
he will pitch Friday day, tomorrow YEP or today for
our listeners, and we'll see what it gets up. Yeah, well,

(01:07:44):
but yeah, I don't know when people listen. I guess, uh,
do you want to give us a little short run
down here? Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Canadian Draft League. He was like a draft league's metrics
guy that the Mets took him like the eighth round
a few years ago. Huge IVB fastball. It's consistently added
velocity even this year. Honestly, he's like sitting mid nineties
touching I think ninety nine. Best second area is a

(01:08:11):
change up. It runs absolutely insane in his zone, whiffs
really all the way up the up the org ladder.
He's been throwing it more this year, even right on right.
Feel for spind is not an issue. He was drafted
with like a big downer curve ball, but it's also
one of those like load of mid seventies. You can

(01:08:34):
kind of see it out of the hand downer curveballs.
He's mucked around with a few different breaking ball looks.
He's had a hard cutter, he's had a plus IBB sweeper.
Sounds like he's probably going to settle it. Mike. You'll
write about this more for the call up, because he's
looked into his breaking ball stuff specifically. But he's going
to have. I think probably something like a power slider
as his primary breaking ball. That might end up quite good,

(01:08:56):
but you know, it's you know, the fastball and change
up the best fastballs in the miners. Is one of
the best change ups in the miners. You will note,
I think as soon as you watch him, if you
haven't seen him before, he has a very unusual delivery
he comes. It's a righty crossfire with him coming over
the top and he does not release the ball directly
over the top. So it's like super deceptive in a

(01:09:18):
way that I think will actually be sustainable in the
majors versus guys getting in part because he throws ninety
seven with twenty IVB on the fastball, any bit of
issues taking that up is going to be a problem
for you. The one thing to keep an eye on,
I guess when he does not throw a lot of
pitches in the zone, he has a lot of chases.
Like I don't think his command is bad specifically, but

(01:09:40):
if you can get guys at chase, you just keep
getting guys at chase, right, So we'll see how he adjusts.
I think his stuff will play in the zone, but
that might be an adjustment he'll have to make him
these first few starts.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Think guys might be better, Like there's still going to be
a lot of chase, but like incrementally better at chasing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
Yeah, you can see like that gets tough, and then
you get into counts where they in efficiency, where he's
not getting through the fourth of the fifth inning, not
that any metch starter is getting to the fourth and
the fifth ending lately. Uh I'm curious see what they
do with him for the rest of the season. They're
going to a six man I think probably for close
to the balance of the season, not all of it. But
they also have Tyler McGill coming off rehab pretty soon,

(01:10:19):
so we'll see how they sort this all out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Elsewhere, uh Tong is getting added to a roster, some
some players are getting released. M We'll start in Pittsburgh
with Andrew Heeney, obviously a subject of the of the show.
Early on in the season, things went south. Certainly they
had moved him to the bullpen in Pittsburgh right before

(01:10:44):
he hits some contractual bonuses based on innings pitched, but
it seemed like he was gonna at least hit a
few of them. He did hit one. He did hit one,
so he ended up hitting one hundred and twenty, which
was the baseline threshold, and then they're gonna be additional
bonuses at like up to one sixty years.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
Yeah, one of them was fifty k. It goes up
to one hundred k with the next one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
So yeah. The the thing here is he was also terrible,
yeah recently, So there is like cover in that sense.
There is the The thing about it is like, why
should Pittsburgh care if he's terrible?

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
I mean, I guess the idea is you're going to
they are not trying. They're not, but you can find
an arm that you might want to employ for next
tire and find out probably not. I think at a
certain point you're gonna get into the like, if you
want to sign these guys, they're just gonna be fuck
you pay me, like we're not doing and then we're yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Right, because this is obviously the the Rowty till As
situation was a bit more blatant. I guess yeah, I
think that that first one Layton, but it has the
cover of he really had just been terrible late and

(01:12:09):
and so you understand saying like, Okay, we're not going
to run him out as a starter or whatever, or
you can right, I mean I noted.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
They have this it will be fine, but they're not
actually doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Right, and and the other the other part of it
is like you can't inne of the context, not just
the Rebbie Tell as part of it, but like that
Pittsburgh pulls this ship, right, they nickel and die.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
Yeah, so they don't get the benefit of the doubt here, right, right, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
The best way to said.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yeah, I do think Tell has got Chandler fifty thousand
dollars because I think they let him hit that first
instead of because of what happened last year. You mean, yeah, yes,
he got he got the fifty thousand because of Telling.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Probably probably true. Yeah, yeah, we should know. I guess
Bobby Chandeler has pitched twice in the book relief role.
He got his first win yesterday. I think has been
pretty good coming out. Yeah, it's weird. The Guardian's DFAD
Carlos Santana. I mean, look, he's largely the same Carlos Santana.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
There's just the no, yeah, like this is he's like
this is also the time you like DFA these guys.
If there's a playoff team, right, man, I don't think
there will be on Carlos Santan or Andrew Haney, but
if there was, you give him a chance to catch on.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
He's just lost all semblems of power. Right. Last year
he slugged four twenty. This year's three thirty three. Yeah.
And and Cleveland, you know they have not that he's
been good, but like they've been running out c J.
Kyphus and you know they they have guys that they can.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
You can just play every day and that's right, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Yeah, I do love that GPS has been in the
outfield a fair amount, but like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
You don't want Yeah, I do love the Guardians let
Santana play for their third base this year. I don't
remember when they did that, but that's great. This is
the first time he played third base since twenty eighteen.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. Your Seattle Mariners, yes, uh, you
know the Mariners, if they're released outrighted their their longest
tenured Mariner, Dylan Moore.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
It's been around for years and years and years. Let's see,
Dylan Moore joined the team in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
As a minor league pre agent. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
The only thing interesting about Moore, who is now ranger
is that on May twenty third, Moore was slashing two
seventy seven, three forty one, five nine. He was incredible
for two months of the season. Since then one ninety three,
two sixty three, three fifty nine. Uh, it just all
fell apart and after the it's it's incredible that he

(01:14:58):
stuck around for almost a full month to the deadline.
But when Donovan Solano wins out a roster, when a
roster spot over, you Anthony Volpe wishes, I mean he
is out hitting right now, so uh yeah, farewell to Dylan.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Moore, but stays in the division. So you have some
uh some drama potential of just twisting the knife. I
guess later later in the year. The twist of the
knife is all.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
Yeah, the Dylan Moore revenge gaing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Yeah, exactly do they pay each other? They must, I
don't that. I don't know. I don't know how the
schedule works anymore. We need the old people who did it,
and they do.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
Not they okay, So no Dylan Moore revenge gam No,
how is it?

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
There are six weeks left and they don't.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
You say that, But like they just published, we're not
gonna talk about any schedule for twenty twenty six years. No,
but we're not gonna talk about the other thing either
at that uh over, you know, swallowed up all the
news cycle when they released in the baseball schedule. But
like the Mets of like four West Coast trips in
the first two months next year, Like who is making

(01:16:03):
this schedule a computer?

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
Well yeah, fair.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Yeah, the Mariners have twenty eight games remaining, seven of
them are in the division.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
That's wild.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
In fresh rooms, we've been talking all year about how
good and durable, and we can still talk about how
good he was. Yeah, but he won't pitch anymore. He
had a rotator craft injury. He's done for the year.
I think Texas is also done for the year. Uh.

(01:16:39):
In more pertinent playoff news, I suppose Trevor McGill has
a right flexer string. He's been great, absolutely dominant.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Yeah, and like they always have arms to throw at
the bullpen, but also like they don't have Trevor McGill
arms to throw at the bullpen.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
So they picked up Betty not.

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
A Trevor McGill level reliever.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
No, but I think I think the goal is that
they're gonna they're going to move Ashby to short relief
and then use SETI And was he in long relief?

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
Yes, he was like their bulk guy or not bulk guy,
but like middle.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
And they have so many it's fascinating to me that
they're going to SETTI at all, because like their whole
thing is.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
They have Chad Patrick, Logan Henderson's hurt. I know how
they are.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
Tobias Myers is up and Chad Patrick is down because
apparently they can't both be on the roster at the
same the same right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Yeah, it's like they hit the phone booth.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
It's like, uh, yeah, I wonder if you might see
I know he's still working back from Tommy John, but
you might see Robert Gasser at some point too, out
of the pen.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
Sure. Sure. I was gonna say. It's a little like
the have you seen the James outman and who's the
is it Fitzgerald, Fitzpatrick, there's a twins outfielder. They look
exactly if yeah it's Fitzgerald. Yeah, yeah, it's like that,
except totally totally.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
I know they traded him. I was thinking about this year,
They're like, what team is James out went on?

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
Because I know they traded. I can run. Yeah, that's
probably why I remember.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Yeah, uh yeah, I mean I don't is there more
to say about Milwaukie, like what this does for Milwaukee?
It's certainly it hurts.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Yeah, it's it hurts.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
Yeah, your rebay is closer.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
It was very good, but also a little more inconsistent than.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
Yeah, and the other The other part to me is
is he's been worked much harder. He's thrown seventeen more
innings this year.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
Than apparently like both McGill's can't be healthy at the
same time.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
Yeah, yeah, your rebay is great. I did also know
yesterday Chris Towers was like people ask me, like why
I hate analyzing relievers or whatever, And you look at
Abner your rebay and he sub to e r A
over six and then back to subsuito. Yeah, that's it's
and like the process that he's got a two eight
five FIP like he's been absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
No, like I watched him in the playoffs, Like it's
just Abner your rebay, like he has your rebat.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Yeah, and Jameson Tayan has a left rowing injury.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Yeah, none the other than me have all the you know,
I think Miguil and Tyana expected to be back for
the postseason.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
So yeah, I mean four arm. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
Always Maybe that's one of those things where yeah, you
could be back in three weeks or you could be
having surgery.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Yeah, they haven't played taps yet, but like, yeah, they're
putting the trumpet back together.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
I have not the reports on it, but it is
every single like flexer strain is like we'll see when
he throws the ball again. He's shut down right now,
and we'll see when he throws the ball, and like
it can be fine. Absolutely, it will also see Also
it's like sometimes they're back and look fine for three
games and then it's gone. You know, you just don't know. Lastly,
the or I say, lastly, but Jeff said he has

(01:19:51):
some news he's gonna drop on us. But lastly, on
our document here the Rocky send Antonio sends a tella
to the bullpen, which is a little bit like signing Eric.

Speaker 3 (01:19:58):
Fetti, Yeah, or moving Andrew Haney to the bullpen, which the.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Well, I don't know that there's not the incentives issue there,
but what Patrick, you said, He's just gonna squeeze the
ten hits aloud into one two innings instead of five
I have nothing. I have nothing else on that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:16):
I'm going to read you a tweet. You're going to
guess the player. I will say it as a retired player,
big news. I'm ready to go as a lifelong conservative
who loves this country. I'm running for Congress to fight
for the principles and make Texas and America great. It
takes teamwork to win. I'm ready to help defend President
Trump's America First Agenda. Texas families.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
I'm going to go with Berkman. Yeah, Berkman crossed my mind,
but I was like, is it wouldn't be? I mean,
like it. It feels very Aubrey Huff. But I don't
think he's in Texas. I don't is it? Is it
a Texas player? Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
He did? He did play in Texas?

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Yes, okay, he did play.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
He is not I don't think he is known primarily
for playing in Texas. But he did play for Texas.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
Jeff, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Mark to Sha Congress, Mark to Shara, and there you got, yeah, okay,
get that to look forward to.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
Mm hmm, I'm sure I went yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
Probably, Uh, this is why we should probably should have
done the intermarity step.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
Intermediary step and coach the college football team for a
little while, and.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Then that would have been Oh, I'm not going to
tell the smoke up to in my in my mind,
still playing in Japan. All right, that takes us to
our game. All right, we're doing training good. I'm gonna
send it to you in the g chat.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Uh So the teams this time and the second the sections. Man, boy,
we need to record at nine. I can't do this
seven o'clock. Like every first name, every first I've spoken
on this podcast the last hour and a half, I'm like,
that's not a real name, is it?

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
John?

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
All Right?

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
See your columns on the virginal side, Kansas City Royals,
the Boston Red Sox, and having played third base ever.
Your horizontal rows are the athletics of Oakland, Saquel, Sacramento,
Kansas City, et cetera, New York Yankees, and having a
one hundred plus RBI season. You're gonna complain already the.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
IRBIS, but do not think about it too much. Just hitters,
all right. So let's see, let's go ahead and have
Craig go first. Oh why am I I think I
went first? Last time? Okay, I don't know maybe it did.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
I don't care, all right, So Kansas City and Athletics
do not pick a Kansas City Athletic.

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
They don't. He does not know. I was gonna say
the crossover here is like as a franchise. Yeah, I
didn't mention it before Jeff took out his headphones.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
But I'm going to say you can vote for somebody
to do more than one category in this Oh this time,
I'm going to allow you to use the player multiple times.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
Interesting. So Kansas City and Athletics, Man, I know I
can I pass on this and and come back to
That's why I want. I want to come back. I
know there's like I just Boston and Athletics boss. Mm hmm,
there's uh, this is a bad answer, but Keith folk

(01:23:23):
is you know, I'm trying not to be. That's fine,
let's go. It's fine. A's played third base one at
least one game. Eric Chavez, Uh, Kansas City and New
York Yankees. Oh, Carlos Speltrom Red Sox and Yankees. Boy,

(01:23:46):
there's probably a better answer than Jacoby Elsbury, but that's
who came to my mind. I'm just I'm gonna go
off the top of my head I'm really like, I'm
gonna try not to. I know the goal is to
try and get the most popular, but I'm going for it.
Yankees third baseman. Uh, my mind went to Alex Rodriguez,

(01:24:07):
Royals one hundred RB eyes. I guess, George Brett Okay,
Red Sox one hundred RB eyes, David Ortiz third baseman,
hundred RB eyes. I know, No, it's not I can

(01:24:28):
name a third baseman. It's not. But like the idea
of these are the ones that I hate because like
it's too open world, you know what I mean, Like,
I don't know, this is this is what kills me.
I don't you said I can reuse, you can reuse.
I'll just use Alex Rodriguez again. Okay, back to A's

(01:24:49):
and Royals. This one, this one's bothering me because I
know that there's a there's like I have in my
in my head, a A He's in Royals. Like I'm real,
I'm I did.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
I went back and looked at the one I picked
for this category at one o'clock lesson in the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
Boy, when I picked is real dumb? Uh? Yeah, the
one I got. The thing that's sticking out to me
I'm sure there's like a much better picture answer or something,
but like the thing that's in my head is like
David beheso's okay, all it's bad, al right, bad Patrick,
all right, somehow we're gonna have to get Jeff back on.

(01:25:38):
There we go. It's impressive that he actually looked up
exactly when I made the headphone Jeffy ready to go. Sure, Jeff,
I did so bad.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
Okay, Craig got four. I also got four, so we
will see. As I told Craig, you may this time
use a name more than once.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
I feel really dumb. I have a name, by the way,
not even for the A's uh royals one, but like
the A's and there's.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
I mean, I had like a three minute no to
think of an A's royal guy, and I still haven't.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
So you're not. You're gonna love the guy I picked,
But like the name I didn't pick that's killing me now.
Is just it's all right, royals Jeff.

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):
Yeah, it feels like it should be a mis Otis,
but I know, like it's not name. I don't think
he played for the A's. It just knows me like
amis Otis should have played for their like I'm gonna say,
I'm going to say, I'm going to say Terrence Long
did Terrence Long player? But it feels like Terrence Long.
It's not kind I think you did. I just want
to get one. I'm not going to get it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
No, it's fine. But also now that I think of it,
was Germaine Die.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
Yes, Germaine dies a good one, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
Saying Terrence Long unlike Yeah, for me it was Amos
had pit forty games as for Pirate in a four memory.

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
Yeah. Uh, Keith Folk all right?

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Uh A's played third base, Eric Chavas, Yankees, Royals.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
I don't I know these teams that had like a
lot of crossover too, and I like could not come
up with anybody that's yeah, I play for both of them.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
Yeah, the Yankees in Kansas City Athletics. That a lot
of crossover.

Speaker 3 (01:27:25):
Sure, yeah, yeah, one hundred and nine according to that,
I'm sure there is. Yeah, I'm just at this point,
I'm just vamping. So pass okay, Yankees Red Sox payer.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Uh, Yank.

Speaker 3 (01:27:43):
Did you say Johnny Damon? Because I initially I.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
Said We'll get to Kobe Yankees third base?

Speaker 3 (01:27:52):
Uh? You feel like they have more famous third Baseman
than they do.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Greg Nettles, all right, uh, Royals one hundred.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
Rpies, gonna go with the famous guy, George Brett.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Red Sox hundred RBIs.

Speaker 3 (01:28:05):
So do you want to go like recency bias? Do
you want to go like super famous? I mean that's
like two Hall of Famers plus Manny Ramirez. So I
am going to say.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
David Archies and third base one hundred RBI.

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
Mike Schmidt, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
Congratulations, it is a tie. We had a lot of
the same.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
Well, I'm want to declare myself actually the winner. I
got four and a half and you guys got four.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
You'll see, you'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
Fine, an incredible performance in the Johnny Damon Bowl for
neither of you to never say Johnny Damon for an
actual guest. Johnny Damon fits.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
Four of these. Yeah, yeah, wow. Yes, he is the
most popular answer for Kansas City in the A's.

Speaker 3 (01:28:54):
I know, I remember he played came up as a royal,
but I don't think of him as.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
Like I picked Billy Butler for this one, which I
think I finished out twelve percent.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
A's Red Sox is hold on, hold on, Jeff, I
picked David de Jesus yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
Uh, A's Red Sox is Dennis Acresley. Oh oh, but
this was this was the low one.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
This was ten percent. Any I picked Henderson, he was
I was gonna say, Ricky, I should have picked for
Focus or Yankees Red so Yeah. I mean what A's
third basement is Eric Shamas? Congratulations? Uh Kansas City, New York.
I hate this like I hate it when this guy
comes up a role as Chapman. Sixteen percent of people

(01:29:37):
are not thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:29:38):
Of a royal.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
City royal Yeah, I'm sorry. I liked my Beltron poll.
I'm giving yeah, but I picked Damon. Yeah, sure, very valid.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
The reason I'm giving myself half a point is because
Damon is the answer for the Red Sox and Yankees,
as well as the Kansas City rules, but not the Yankees.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
And Red Rod, not Johnny Damon, but not Growth.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Yeah that wild.

Speaker 3 (01:30:02):
I should have gone my first instinct.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
I guess I'm even more upset.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
Wade Box only got seven percent, and Wade Box like
played his entire career other than like his last two
years for the Red Sox and Yankees. A Rod is
the third baseman.

Speaker 3 (01:30:15):
George Brett is they played DUTs. Yeah, okay, I said
very famous.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
It was really just going off the top of my head,
like I didn't. I didn't. I thought about Greg Nedel
and then I was like, how what are the Yankee
third basement there? And you're right, it's not as deep
a less as you might.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
Yeah, imagine David Ortiz for the Red Sox, and for
third base it is Mike Schmidt, which is how Jeff
pulled the tie. Yeah, so congratulations to all of us,
particularly You'll have to take my word for the fact
that I got.

Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
There's no reason for you to lie about any of them.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
I trust you. I do think it's funny that Jeff
and I both pat Keith. That is very it's a
famous trade.

Speaker 2 (01:30:56):
Actually, I do want to look. Let's you guys banner
for a second. I want to see what the percentage is.
But you guys want to guess what the percentage is
for Keith Folk, because I want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
What was the winning folk? What was the winning one?
Give us the baseline. The winner one was ten percent
for Dennis Secrets.

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
Yeah, uh thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:31:14):
I don't think I can look. I think you guys
have to do it. One of you has to go
into immaculate grade. It's it's for eight seventy six.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Yeah, I'll paste the leg I was going to say six.
Not Jeff and I are too much on the same page.
I'm guessing I'm saying, I'm going to guess the folk
is two.

Speaker 3 (01:31:35):
Is that loud again?

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
It was? I think it's trade. I'm pulling it. It's
a thingous trade three? All right? Uh all right, also
shows up in a white Sox hat.

Speaker 3 (01:31:50):
For third days for the Yankees. I was curious, do you.

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
Have any others you want us to pull for percentages? No,
because I already know.

Speaker 3 (01:31:59):
What I want to see what bay Ruth is.

Speaker 1 (01:32:00):
Yeah, it's putting up Babe Ruth for Yankees Red Sox.
That's did Yeah. God, Patrick awarding himself the win. Need
we need to pass a lot to allow for a
trendy get grid commissioner. I don't know. This is this

(01:32:22):
kind of self dealing. I would I would be happy
to pass off those responsibilities. Yeah, all right, Well, thank
you for the game, Patrick, congratulations on your win. Thank
you to our listeners for joining us on another episode
of Five and Dives, brought to you by the Baseball
Perspectives podcast Network. You can get in touch with the
show at five and dive at Baseball perspectives dot com.
We are wherever you get your podcasts. Search for the

(01:32:43):
Baseball Perspectives podcast network and we'll be in that feed.
And if you can't wait for this stupid fucking pod
to be over, enjoy the outro music. We'll see you later.
How can my father still hold the page and can

(01:33:13):
never answering deer all the fas

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