Five and Dive, Episode 493: Guardians at the Gate

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Welcome to episode four ninety three of five and five.
It is Monday, September twenty second. I am your host,
cry Goldstein, joined as usual by Patrick Dubuk and Jeffrey
Pattern Nostro. Gentlemen, how was the weekend? Do we have
any banter? So?

Speaker 2 (00:45):
My kid had her first stay home from school secon
Day and can open share them? Yeah, we had a
juicy Burke's incident on Friday.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
I'm glad that's surviving.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, I mean she was, she was fine by like
eight am.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
But also I didn't get into there later work honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, but like I don't know, Like she's not going
to watch Prices right with me, which is just what
I did when I stayed home from school, Like I don't.
I don't know dem she's not, thankfully, although the just
the town this weekend because rap is being put on somewhere.

(01:21):
But uh so we had a Happy Meal Saturday and
they have like the Happy Meal toy right now is
like a K pop.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yes whatever, demon Hunter is it just a kid?

Speaker 2 (01:36):
They didn't get the rights to anything. They made up
their own K pop band and made toys of it.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I think it's a real band. I don't think it is.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I think it's inspired, it's inspired by I don't know. Yes,
so the one she got was just named V the
letter b uh. She has another one too, So they're
like hanging out BTS. It is BTS.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Who's I've heard of them even so.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, i've heard of them, but I know who's in them.
I thought it said it was like BTS inspired or something.
Maybe it's literally Btscdonald's.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
And BTS released new Happy Meal with Tiny Tan toys.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
No, I don't, but.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
I don't think it's actually I don't think it's actually
the BTS toys of the BTS members. I think they
made up their own K pop band. I understanding.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Uh. It will include two sets of special tiny Tan
toys inspired by each of the seven.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Members inspired by but this, well, I hear you ont
inspired by like that's like it also inspired by a
true story. Usually it's not actually the story right.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Like, but it's got the blessing of the story. In
this case, they are working with them on. That's under
saying that I grant you, I grant you. It's a weird.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Again, I don't know who the members of BTS are,
so I can't is a tiny Boss. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
I've already had to learn what a like.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
I mean, it looks like No, I still don't really
know what that is, and I don't know what six
seven is, and I'm fine with both.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Oh, I do know about that as well. It's stupider
than you could that's fine.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
I'm not worried about it.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
No, I'm not going to explain more. I'm just telling
stupider than you could have been.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
But I don't know if there's a V in BTS right, like,
I don't know. Uh, well, well you don't have to
look it up. A lot of playoffs.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
V V is one of the group's seven.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Okay, so it's just BTS five inspired by, but also Josh.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
BTS inspired inspired by in this case means funko popifyed.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
That's the they're kind of funko poppy, yes, or there
maybe a tiny Tan is a funko pop like you.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Want to know any members of BTS.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
No, Okay, I don't need to know these things, good
because I probably was gonna they had one like, I
don't know if it was like I think it was
like a k Pie. It wasn't from BTS. Like some
fairly known K pop band guy doing a solo tour,
and they played the venue that is right next to
the kids dance class, and I at three o'clock, which

(04:11):
is when her dance class was. Then like the line
was around the block waiting to get in for this. Yeah,
I don't like it. It's it's kind of freeing in
a way to be at the age where I don't
have to understand these things.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Well you will.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yeah, getting who bts is every day of getting older
is just further understanding our parents.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah they have whatever.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
The don't generally feels bad, right, I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's like an insurance company ad. That's it's progressive. It
was like the it's not like those are like they're
they're very like stupid marketing.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I love Doctor Rick.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
I'm but like it's just like it's it's entering the
you know, the it's like the Grandpa Simpson. I used
to be it and they change what it was and
then happened. It's having me. It's great, feels great, fucking great.
There's in your neck o Case album out this week.
I'm great.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Also, I did.

Speaker 4 (05:08):
I felt like I had to look up what a
tiny tan was sure the the AI answer.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
I'm gonna be honest.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Okay, well they have fine. You don't want to, you
don't want to, you don't want to scroll further under
don't really it's fair is.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
A collection of Chibis style animated characters based on the
members of the South Korean group BTS.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
So this is not a wider world this is okay,
this is this is not a BTS jump the McDonald's
version of the BT.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
But like they created an entire thing called tiny Tan,
which I'll continue to not understand what that is, but
it is only BTS.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, So it's like the BTS branded it's not really.
I mean, it's smaller than a funk, but their heads
aren't as wide. The heads are larger than their bodies,
but they're not as wide.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Yeah, right, I to admit I didn't expect the podcast
to go this way.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, I didn't either.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Is she feeling better?

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah? She's fine today, Okay, Yeah, some days get some day.
She got to watch Wings with me on USA during
her nice there you go during her.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
For me.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
My microwave exploded this weekend. It began emitting a smoke
so toxic smelling and acrid that I am not sure
if I'm actually here now or if I'm just six
sensing this podcast.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
It could be gone.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
I had to like just take it outside and let
it smoke outside in the way where it could disperse
the vapors. It was so bad. So I have no
mic grave right now. My other my other piece of
banter is that I took my son to a soccer game,
a child's soccer game this weekend.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
It's participating.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
No, it's his best friend is on a soccer team,
and she wanted him to come watch, uh, attend his games.
And I'm like, all right. The mom gave me the
schedule and I said, okay, we're doing the first one.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
That that sounds like sending your son to with another
parent to me.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, I know, I don't have transaction right.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Because your child wants my child at your event. Sounds
like he's in your car.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
It's okay, I went. I was like, you know, and
it actually wasn't you know. I'm expanding on my watching sports.
I don't watch. After the volleyball and I got there
and I'm like, I I played soccer as a kid
and I hated it.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
I was not good at it. I didn't enjoy it.
It's just my parents.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Just yeah, my parents just made me do it for
like seven and I was weak enough to not object
for like seven years. I played soccer for a long time. Sure,
and I'm watching it and like it's pretty good, honestly,
Like it's a sport you can you can make yourself watch.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Very popular. It's a very popular one.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Very popular sport. Not perhaps in this.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Form seven on seven no goalkeepers or there were.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
No statistics, because there was you know, we're in a
field high, but if there were, I think with kicks
would be one of the stats where just the girl
would wind up and kick and just get there. It's
like the ace of soccer, except it's just the ball
against the ace.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
But like I'm enjoying it.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
And his friend like actually like basically drove down the
entire field herself, dribbled past four people, missed a shot
and then had had a ricochet off the goalie and
somebody else scored, so she got the assist. Was in
president like and my son is picking the little rubber
flex out of the artificial turf, lying on his stomach,
just miserable to be there, and.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Like he was like complaining. He's like, why did they
keep ringing that cow bell?

Speaker 4 (08:52):
Why are they why are they shouting? I'm like, because
somebody scored a goal. Man, Like if you, if you
were watching, you might put them put those things together.
But I'm not sure he would, like there's something about
it like sports passes.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Through him, like radio ways. It is fascinating.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
That's the only way you can consume the Colorado Rockies.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
So I don't know. I just want to share a
related soccer story since you're talking about you know how
long you played it and hated it. I did not
hate it when I was a kid. I actually liked it.
I enjoyed it. My mother hated it, and I mysteriously
she missed a deadline for signing me up for the

(09:33):
next season of soccer when I was like, I don't know,
nine or ten, and I found out later it wasn't
it was intentional.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
She just decided that's it. That's the end of this
for you. I can't do it anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
They gave me the dates and I was like, all right, which,
you know, we're going in September. We are not doing
this in November. We're not going to stand out in
the rain. Like there is a point where it's like
I can't understand how everybody deals with this.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh yeah, the kid is talking about wanting to play
soccer again, like very excited about it. It doesn't this fall
because the verse FIM class, but maybe in the Sprague.
But like last time we played, like she wouldn't get
on the field, but she's like she really want to
see it again. But she scored, yeah, which is great.
Like I'm trying to she won't watch Wednesday with me,

(10:19):
and God blessed, I don't even I don't want to
be watching it right now.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
But yeah, I will say that I did just say
I liked it a lot. But I my coaches were like,
you can come to practice, you just can't play in
the games. And I was like, well, I'm not going
to do that.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, signed, I.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Didn't pay for it, but they were like, can you
can practice, which was fine, which is actually like at
my age now, I'm like, oh, that's actually like that's
a fair offer. But like at the time, I was like, well,
I don't know. Yeah, so I'm not going to practice
to not play. I probably would have. I don't like
the practice game, I said. I liked it, but I
guess I didn't act well. No, I was just like you.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
Nobody passed to be in the actual games, in the
practices they had to. Yeah, it seems like like another pressure.
You just like screw around.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
All right, my my, you know the real I just share.
I'm just gonna be honest with the with the listeners here,
we've gone long on banter, so we're gonna move it
on anyway. But I did. I did have some banter,
but I I am choosing to keep it. I got
into a little bit of an argument at a a
coach pitch. No, I'm not going to go into the

(11:37):
whole thing. I'm just it's a teaser. They don't get
to know.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
I could have just started recording like five minutes earlier
than we did.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
No, I'm not going into Craig just wants to pitch clock.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, but but that's what that's what happened to me
this weekend. I didn't I did you know? There was
like a banter thing, But it's it's not something I
should be divulging in full. So it is what it is.
Let's let's go to our first segment, the junior Circuit.
The Blue Jays pull up out of a spiral.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
They are up around three on around three because they
got a tiebreaker.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, but they also clinched t breakers stuff. Just they
clinched a playoff spot.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
The only team in the Ale to do so.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Are they really?

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, I guess they are. Well, uh, yeah, they are
two games up, but because they have the tiebreaker, it's
two and a half and we can't do it. Yeah.
I noticed that I saw Joshian posts on this over
the weekend. But like the tiebreaker stuff, just not being
settled on the field sucks. Yep. Yeah, it's so bad.

Speaker 4 (12:41):
Yeah, nobody, nobody likes tiebreakers. Nobody wants this except you
know the count the players in the accounts.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, they have shortened their rotation to four. That includes
Trey and Savage, which means it excludes Jose Burrios. Yes,
it was not empty. No, oh is he not? I
had not seen it.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Isn't Bassett hurt so it might include him again?

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Now?

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Yes, Bassett, that's that's on the I l with back inflammation.
He supposed they back dated it so that he will
be eligible for the first round. Sure, but yes, it's Gossman.
Gosman Gosmin Bieber Bassett is probably the third, and then
question Mark, yes, Savage, I guess it is the one.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
But yeah, you know, he he's given up five runs
and nine innings. It's not been a walk in the park.
He does have nine strikeouts. Sorry, that was nine strikeouts
in his first start. He has eleven strikeouts, five walks.
You know, Jeff, you watched some of his first game.

(13:53):
Was it the the splitter?

Speaker 2 (13:56):
The splitter was just basically I think I hit something
like seventy just like something stupid on some level of league.
Will it generally adjust to this to an extent? They
might not do it before the end of October, right.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, I mean my my sense was he has to
be out of the zone. I mean, or he was
out of the zone. I don't know he has to be,
but he was. And so the question is to me,
how long.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
To get a fastball like it's a good like he's
got a full repertoire. I do think walks Kennon will
be a problem in the short to medium term, right.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Right, It's not My point wasn't that he can't be
in the zone, but that his style of pitching right
now is I'm gonna throw it out of his zone.
You're like, it's gonna look like a strike until it's not.
But if if major league hitters start start spitting on those,
and like he walks in two strikeouts against the Royals, Yeah,

(14:58):
you know, in a lineup that includes Jack Tagleon among others,
you know that's isn't among others particularly well, there's well,
my my point being that he's no, it is not no. No,
My point being that he strikes out a lot, and
that he got two strikeouts against Yeah, a lineup with Jack,

(15:22):
that's all.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
I think. Ideally you'd be using him as like your
mid inning's bridge or whatever in the playoffs and things
like that. But the starting rotation is not pitting. Like
Bassett hasn't pitched twelve before the injury, so.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
Right, and Sureser hasn't had a quality starting more than
a month. Cosmon has been the yeah, and and Peever's
been great.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah. But like again, there's no good teams in the air,
which is why they only want to have cluched the
playoff spot so far. I don't know how any amsition
start up.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, three five, seven, are right, you had one blow
up start one blow that's the second start was not good.
That's why I wasn't wasn't sure, But no, Gosman's.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Been goin better than I thought. His was like a
half point higher.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
No, he's been really good. He's eating a lot of Inians.
It's funny too, because like how you're talking about your
savages a little bit. Is the Kevin Gosmin story obviously
strong for a long time, but like it was all
about you know, the split.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Finger, and I think that's gonna be like the current
commenty like Jacob isier Awski right who they're moving right
of Milwalk. I think it's a different arsenal, but it's
the same kind of idea.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, I mean, I guess if Bassett is it is
so what I apologize, Like, what is the story with
sure as healthy? Is he not going to be the
fourth guy?

Speaker 4 (16:45):
He doesn't looked good and they I don't think they.
I don't think he've talked about it because like wide heelers,
I wouldn't want to do it. But like, is he
the fourth best starter on this team?

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Like I don't, yeah, but I know you know, And
again this is like far out of the field of saber. Yeah.
His last start was two thirds of any.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
Well, that was, yeah, but but he wasn't great before
that either. He you know, he's been given all four
runs a lot. Now, I think, does it really matter
in the sense that somebody's pitching an he is one
through three, and somebody's pitching four through six, Like, probably
not as much as you would would be in the
regular season, right. We didn't even mention it. We didn't
mention your flower.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, well, because they had hunted him to the pen
already and he hasn't been very good there.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
He's been kind of struggling there too, so he's not
even an answer, you know. I just this is one
of those things where I think with a with a
I think even the more advanced sabermetrically inclined managers or whatever,
like you have Max Scherzer and you have Trey Savage,

(17:53):
and yeah, you just you're probably gonna go with Max Scherzer, right, Like,
one is a guy who's made at this point, he's
going to have made three career starts, maybe four, I
don't know how many, probably three, and the other is
a future Hall of Famer, and they're both kind of
coin flips, right, I mean, maybe not even coin flips.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
But yeah, just if you have a question either, right,
so you probably just go with maxers are in that
situation to not piss off maxterers or I don't know, well,
it's probably not. I don't think it matters. I really
don't think, right, well, that's my point is if it
doesn't matter, like, don't you just not which maybe is

(18:35):
the coward's way out, but I don't It seems also
fairly reasonable to me. I don't think. I don't think
there's anything wrong with doing that. But yeah, like I mean,
part of.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
The problem I think for Toronto is that they have options.
And that's why we're talking about this, right, Like a
lot of the teams in the American League, those are
their third fourth starters, So like you don't have to
argue about which bad picture is going to start the
fourth game, because they're just going to start the thirty
and fourth game.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
So I don't know, it's an entire it's an entire
rotation made out of Lucas Giolito's right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
And we do we do have a Bobochet injury update.
Oh yeah, he was asked for his injury status or whatever.
His fonts was getting better every.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
Day, Okay, I mean that's inspiring.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, very inspiring.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
He did.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
He did some light hitting, grind grind set culture it
is yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Uh yeah. I don't anything else on on.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
I don't like this is the best. They're not good,
like no one is.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
They're not bad, not bad, Jeff, I don't know what
to tell you.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, they're good.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
They're a good team. Good thing is I think they
are good. They're not great great.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Every single Ale playoff review is just going to be
these two teams start having a mid off.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well yeah, honestly, I don't think that extends that. I
think you can extend that to that. That's the majors
this year. Milwaukee's been, you know, coming back to earth
a little bit. Well, I mean we have a we
have a very We could catch them pretty easily.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
The Branchers Swars just got like beat up in it,
like they lost to it three hours.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
I don't know, they have this.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
We have a weird time right now because because like
you have the Mariners and Guardians right nine of the
last ten, the next two hottest teams in baseball, you
know where they are, Braids and Marlins. Marlins out of ten,
the Braids are nine out the Tigers tires.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, so like, yeah, you have.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
Man, I've watched teams that don't exist are winning this
many games. Then teams do exist must be losing a
bunch of them.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right. Just speaking of the Tigers very briefly, I know
we'll deal with them, but like, did you watch the
the will Vest employees did?

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Moley, that that was I mean.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
They had just you know, they had just had like
the torqual Sin Homer to to you know, take the lead.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Oh man, that was unreal.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, all right, the same story it's been all year.
Speaking of which, let's let's go to the Al West.
The Mariners swept the Astros Patrick. They are up three plus.
I'm gonna say it's because they have the tiebreaker with
six to go in three three le six to go

(21:38):
three against the Rockies At this point, having the Rockies
left on your schedule is very bad. Uh.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
They they have one nine of ten as you as
you alluded to it sure seems like they're going to
win the division.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, I will say must win game last night for
the Astros. I don't think you can let Jason Alexandra
wear it in the second ding. As much as they
did well.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
Yeah, yeah, they probably should have done got the hook earlier.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
I know that they like them.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
You let him face JP Crawford because it's lefty lefty.
I guess I still might be more aggressive there. Back
to the Grands, like I gotta get out of there
at five.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Yeah, yep, I had both teams were went out, bullpens
had both been used quite a bit.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
But yeah, no, it's it's uh. I mean they got
three things from a from aj blue ball anyway, right,
Like you could just he didn't give you the length regardless,
right right, you did not know? He got one more out, yeah,
and then a third seven runs.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
You know, it felt like it felt like the Astros
pitching couldn't keep doing this. And yes, the yesterday example
got credit to the haters.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, they were right. I also think a big part
of this story has been, like Logan, Gilbert looked good again.
Not elite, you know, four strikeouts and six innings, but
he's looked good. They've gotten some balls George Kirby start
in this mix, uh, and those guys have kind of
been underperforming most of the year, which feels strange to

(23:27):
say when Gilbert has like a three four e ra
which is not bad, but it's also not not the
Logan Gilbert standard. Speaking of their pitching, we almost did.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
It, guys, as.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
We almost did it, Jeff Jeff sent the.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Group chat has gotten into the MRI machine.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
A tale is old as time. Also, it's like, I
understand that he's going to the aisle with a pack strain,
but I also think he's star.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
Is he is he going to the ale because the
he's they have not decided whether he is not.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
So he's making his next start and going five and
a third because that's Brian Wu.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
I mean, yeah, I'm guessing that they skip the started
the I'm guessing what they what they hope is that
they've clinched it, and then yeah they can they just
they can just skip the start.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
But in Logan Eppens or something.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
Right, But yeah, yeah, the the team leader in innings,
Brian Wu. Uh yeah, this has made every start, hasn't it.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
I think?

Speaker 4 (24:31):
So let's see, let's see, uh thirty thirty starts, so
I think he missed one. Yeah, but yeah, son, And
then this is another Toronto Blue Jay situation right where
if if if he's healthy, you're number one through four
starters are said right, I don't even know who is
your fourth start? Is that Luis Castillo is the worst

(24:52):
starter in this team? It has to be with and Gilbert?
What are what's the order you're going?

Speaker 5 (24:57):
Then?

Speaker 4 (24:58):
Well, I don't who's the best one?

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I'll see that. Yeah, he's the All Star. I like,
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
I think Castillo is fourth just because like he's more
betted ball.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
So you're pumping who are you bumping? I sue Gilbert Gilbert?
It would go Wu, Gilbert, Kirby Castillo. I think, so
who who am I? But?

Speaker 4 (25:22):
But well, who are you missing? Like if Wu can't pitch,
then you've got either Logan Evans, who's still coming off
of an injury himself, or you've got Emerson Hancock. There
is literally but do you need a fifth starter?

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Ever? Know?

Speaker 4 (25:33):
But like if WU can't pitch and you need a
fourth starter, Oh, that's where the Mariners are in trouble. Oh,
I say, because they've been using they've been using Logan
Evans and Emerson Hancock is their fifth starter.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Well, you probably use Logan Evans and heavily deploy your bullpen.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
Yeah, it's essentially going to be a bullpen day. Bryce
Miller's the other way say it was worse than Logan Evans.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
I think at this point he's not. He also, did
you guys see the Victor Roblaze catch on that Oh? Yes, okay,
and that was but it's like out of nowhere.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
The cinematography really made that catch just it was it
was like twenty tens NFL commercial with like backers sacking
the person.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, that's what that felt like. He just flew in
from that screen. It was great. I do also, I
would challenge you. I don't know if you're looking at
the box score, Jeffrey, but you were talking about letting
Jason Alexander wear it. Do you know who the right
fielder was for the the Astros.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
In this skin.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Was a Taylor Tramael.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
It was not Taylor Tramael. That is a valid guess. Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
I'm going to tell you someone hitting two ninety six
with a nine to ninety seven ops.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Right now, No Dylan wars on the Rangers.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's someone I've never heard of.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Oh that's that's why I haven't heard of the meet there,
go ahead, Zach Cole. Oh yeah that Cole. Yeah, he's
like been like you had like a home run first
a bat.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Sure, yeah, no, he's getting The reason the Astros are
still here even though they had an incredibly bad injury
luck is that they just.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Keep getting Zach Coles.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
And it's kind of like, you know, yeah, but I
also tell you what the Rangers were doing for a while.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
But I also feel like the reason the Astros are here,
which is second place in the in the West, is
that like they're running out Zach Cole. And I know
he's hitting. I understand that, but like, come all right, uh,
there are four teams for three spots in the wild Card.
Boston is struggling, Detroit wishes they were Boston, and then

(27:34):
we have Cleveland.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Were Yeah, I don't where where do you want to
start here?

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Do you want to start with Cleveland or the Kims?

Speaker 4 (27:42):
Can we talk about Boston? And I'm not I'm not
saying that in a request more, is is it possible
to talk about Boston? Like I feel like the Red
Sox have just been or whatever.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Basically, yeah, they are.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
The least notable playoff.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Team, Cleveland playing well and Detroit playing not well. So
I just kind of like in the conversation, now.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, yeah, Houston and Cleveland are now tied for the
third wildcard, one back of Boston.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
And Cleveland has a tiebreaker, so Houston is technically out
of the spot right now.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Right. I love this system. Yeah, never let me forget. Yeah,
I don't know. Yeah, Boston is just they're just treading water. Yeah,
it's like whether someone can catch them or not. I
guess they're not even really treading water, but like they're
they're they're dying slower than everyone else.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah. The Star they coinly early had like a bad
first inning against the Rais last night. He's been great
in his first two starts, but a little bit wild
in the in the first inning and then they just
didn't score. And look they just got will your a
bray you back? That lineup's been a little.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Is not hitting at all anymore? Correct, Ye know, they missed, they.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Missed Roman Anthony is the reality of it. And like
I know, Roman Gonzalez still has a one thirty oh
ps plus, but you know, they've had a lot of
those guys kind of come back to earth.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
He's had it. He's actually been fine over the last month,
but his last week, which unfortunately matters right now, has
been pretty bad. Abraham Toro tailed off pretty hard.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yeah, I mean, you know who that has the highest
well bond the team offensively in the month of September.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
I don't I didn't even know he was on this team.
Nate Neaton. Oh yeah, Nate, Sure, we talked about him.
I believe Jeff brought him up within the last month
or so. Yeah, I mean, honestly, Nathaniel Low has been
a nice pick up to supplant Toro at first base overall,
but like Yoshida has been bad as a d.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
H right, Anthony hurt and Bregman not hitting him as
well as he was at the start of the season.
It's a lot of like average in a lineup right now.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, and a lot of pitching that's very average as well, right.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I mean, sometimes that means you're gonna go forward sex
for ten games if the pen blow is water kind
of you.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Know, maybe a good song.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
Bregman has an eight eighteen ops in his last two weeks,
eight forty in his last week, so maybe there's something there.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
But I mean, Bregman's been fine, but like it's no,
he's no, I.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Know, but yeah, that's actively good, yes, and yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
It's mostly like the offense, you know, it's easier to
talk about the offense of the Red Sox. It always
is easier to talk about the offense with the Red Sox.
Their pitching just hasn't Like they are the anti Guardians
right now, Like their starting pitching is just not getting
it done.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
And like their pictures, like it's the same, it's the
same guys. Yeah, the same. I mean it's the same guys,
like the same kind of guys as the Guardians pitching
staff too.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
That's true, there's.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Not a lot of difference in like Ryan Bellow and
Tanner Biby right now.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well, but I was also going to say it's not
really the same guys because like they the Red Sox
are just pulling levers left and right. They're like Peyton Toley,
come on down Conn only early, come on.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
They used totally out of the bullpen too on Sunday
the Great.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Listen, there's managing happening, yes, right, Like they are pushing buttons. Okay,
this is not someone looking at the two buttons and
not sure what to do. They're pressing all the buttons.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
It just kind of looks like keyboards.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Slamming the keyboard.

Speaker 6 (31:33):
Yeah, which brings us to Cleveland. Yes, yes, which we
talked about in passing in passing, excuse me, uh maybe
with a little derision last time. And I'm here to
say I was I'm here to say I was right.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
They keep winning. There was this team is not good.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
There was a tweet from Jeff Passon speaking of right,
which is like it's during their wedding streak, Like they're
doing this all with two above average hitters. What a
great front office? Like, No, if you're a good front
office should have more than two above and should be
able to find more than two above average yams. That's
part of your job, right, So he said, like, you

(32:17):
don't get credit for giving Daniel Schneman four hundred plate appearance.
It's just because the team is winning.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
He was good early on in the scene the entire
history of sports writing.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yes, I know, it's like you're not allowed to have
object permanence. I understand this.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
God, I wish I wish I could find that that post,
because yeah, it was. It was basically like it's Hosey
Ramirez and everybody else like they're there. It was basically
like this team is actively bad. What a front office?

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, And it was like wait, whoa, whoa wait a minute, Like,
you know, circumstances that you pointed out would indicate maybe
not the best front office.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah. Do you know who is tied with Jose rams
for the highest way to runs created plus on the team, Craig.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Hide with Jose Ramirez. Oh is it George Valeria? George
run against the Twins. The Twins just rolled out a
usk of a team. I say that, but they did.
They did actually pitch Pablo Lopez who went on the aisle.
They pitched Joe Ryan, who gave up a lot of.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
Home runs, including to Jose Ramirez, but George Lai George
Valeria did get one.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah, Like Kyle Manzardo has been.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Fine, Kylenarto has been fine. But like when you're talking
about a one fifteen, uh, like ops plus from a
last first basement or whatever.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I'm gonna hit in the middle of that lineup as possible.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
It's like that again, that's solid.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
I'm not that's I'm not dumping on that, but like
that's what you what you need out of that position,
and they don't get what they need out of anyone else,
you know.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Fine, See I'm not worried about Stephen. Watch sure you
said accept the pitching, I.

Speaker 4 (33:59):
Said, except this month where everybody Austin I don't know Hedges.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Is that what's happening? I have not looked at like
the team's.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Yeah, Austin Hedges is slugging for seventy eight in September,
so and he's nowhere near the top of the list
bon Naylors slugging.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Fighting hobsctically. The more impressive part is Austin Hedges has
a three hundred on base percentage.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, yeah, he did it.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
Yeah, like those seventeen seven players are above average and
several are exactly average.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Has been great this month, yep.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
I don't think that's gonna stay. Like I actually think
he can hit a little bit. He's like around league average.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
For this brand.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
Rokio put together seventy five league average at bats and
that seems impossible.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
He's doing it.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Twenty twenty four, David Frye is back briefly. Also probably
not gonna like an eight to one strike out to
walk Ratio.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
But yeah, but.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yeah, like this this is just this is a team
that gets hot, and like, I think part of the
problem is that if you can't, if you can't, if
you don't wait.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Here, wait a minute, they kind this, Yes, this is
a team that has gotten hot.

Speaker 4 (35:05):
You said, this is a team that gets hot, and like,
I don't know if that's.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
True about it's not like a trait and of the team.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
It is true, it has happened. That means it happens.
Anything that has happened.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Then also happens, like an oncological quandary exactly exactly.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
We don't like, we don't like that this is this
is like, this is just felting practice.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
They showed it off in batting practice. I just feel
like a little bit here. No what what I'm saying
about passing.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
What I'm saying is that, like the problem is if
you don't use the hero worship, if you don't do this,
you know this tacky like there, you have to.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Accept that nothing else to say, Well, you have to
accept that none of this has any meaning, right all
a random number generator spinning out new statistics that we
used to make narratives.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
The flip side of this, speaking.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Of the in a minute.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Speaking of the narrative, though, like the flip side of
this is that Cleveland has has always been able to
or this recent vintage of Cleveland has always been able
to pitch, right, Yeah, yeah, they are pitching. They have
a two three e r A in September. That's a
full run better than the next closest team, which is
the Mariners, who are also uh you know, which is

(36:19):
a team that also gets hot. As Patrick would say,
they will have been getting hot. We will, they are TJ. Fodell,
We will have appreciated TJ. Fordell. I. Yeah, the pitching.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
Has been very good. We ran down this last.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
The pitching has the pitching is not good. The pitching
has been very good.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, right, but like this, look I'm gonna double down.
I don't I don't buy. I don't buy this at all.
They might make the playoffs. I don't care. They're not good.
I said this about the thing I said about my
first quote on the past and thing was that we
hit on every one of those notes in in the podcast,

(37:05):
and passing ended up at what a great front office,
and we ended up at the sixth wild card is bullshit.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
The playoff spot is bullshit. And I think we were right.
That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
That said, it is the largest comeback.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, look, the Tiger. We haven't talked about the Tigers
and the Tigers have certainly played their part.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Here's here's okay, before we get into the Tigers. Here's
here's a question. I just thought of, Patrick, because I
know you were looking up com like the comebacks and whatever.
Would there have been larger comebacks among teams like before
the playoffs were expanded. That's something I would be interested in.

(37:53):
I suspect not. It's a lot of it.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
They might win the division, is the thing, like, regardless
of what.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, but there there were I'm not the historical one
of the three of us, much less anyone at baseball perspectives,
but like I know, there were teams that made incredible
runs and ended up second place and didn't make the
playoffs right like way back. So I'm just kind of curious,
like how it compares historically now. It might end up

(38:19):
at the top of all that, but I don't know.
It's like they had this incredible run to make up
fifteen and a half games since July eighty seven wins.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
That's true, like A I don't know anyway. Would you
like to talk about the Tigers, or as I like
to call them, the al Mets.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Everything's just going I mean, the Mets are like the
Mets are sneaking out of here, and they're not really
because of the Tigers struggles recently, but A J. Hintry
like you to know they're still they're still playing hard.
He sees the first place team, they're still in first place.
They control their own destiny all, which is true.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
When he says when he says, I see a first
place team, all I can think of is like the eye.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Exam, where yeah, you get you get the August.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
The Tigers, and then the September Tigers, and then with
like which one looks sharper.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
I would just like to point out Kevin mcgon ken.
McGonagall is hitting like six hundred with three home runs
in the Eastern League playoffs right now. Yeah, oh man, Like.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
That's Hobby Bias is Hobby Bias has one walk since
like twenty twelve.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
I think I read about this on Friday. But like
he's on there is on a Fawley roster because he
like missed some time early in the season. Like he
can't you cannot send him to Arizona. If you make
the playoffs, you can't do it.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Fifty three ops plus.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
You gotta do that. You gotta do the Alex curl
off here he should have been of a week ago,
two weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
I mean, this is this is literally the team. I
mean this is a historical poll, Craig.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
Yeah, but this is the team that when the world
won the World Series nineteen sixty eight, turned tow center
fielder into its starting shortstop in the World Series, like
just after the regular season was over.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
The like came up Whenki was transitioning right to the shortstop.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
But like just literally in three days before the World Series.
Guess what, uh they can do that? Like you know,
I think that Parker Meadows get to shortstop.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
I mean I mean I will I will mention here
that they've actually hit fine.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah, thank you Jamia Jones, thank you, Thank.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
You mostly to Jamia Jones. But like Parker Meadow has
been good, Torque has been good, Garry Carpenter has been fine.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Well, Parker Meadows. Are you saying of late September there
were some struggles for parking it was, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Like Riley Green has been very bad.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, well and Patrick he wrote about Riley Green for
box Score Banner didn't didn't you? Yeah? It is ther
sections but like it's it's kind of in a like
where he's come up in these situations where they need
some contact and he's just not even if it's out
and he's just not giving him the contact right now.
It's not what he's made for.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
I'm just looking the shortstop. They're an easy way to
do this. Probably not they're short stop.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
You're trying to get the shortstop position instead of.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Trying to get Yeah, so they are. They're shortstops. Are
four for forty seven in the month of September. You know, wow, Yeah,
the Giants zero strikeouts.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
The Giants called on Bryce Saldridge and it's not going great.
He did have a basis clearing double for his first hit,
but it's not going great.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
But I also feel like just about the match, they
should have called up Carson Bench two weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Pull the level right, push the buttons. It's one thing,
but you know.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's one thing. If Tray Sweeney was having his twenty
twenty four season where it's you know too, thirty two,
ninety four hundred with decent defense, right, you just live
with it. These are black holes.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
And just I thought it was very funny because I
did that sort too. So the Tigers have a eighty
seven w RSC plus from short stop. Last place is
the Cleveland Guardians.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Come with Brian Rocky three fifteen.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
Yeah, it's not one we're saying, it's not Tray Sweeney's ball,
Like clearly, clearly you can succeed without him.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Why would you blame him?

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Charlie No, I mean has been terrible and kider Mont
but like everybody else's pitch, well, kider Montero has this again.
I'm just using September because it's when it's all happened.
More or less. Kider Montero is a three point four
to sixty ra Schooble's under three. Clairty is just a
little over three. Casey mayeses three six eight.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
No, but it's it's the bullpen.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
The bullpen.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, I mean this is obviously a massive ran a
year ago, and just these guys are are I don't
know if they if they're gassed specifically or well.

Speaker 4 (43:08):
They they literally gone out a bunch of extra ones, right,
that was their their strategy was to get a bunch
of dudes and and one of them.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
That strategy kind of worked. They got Kyle Finnegan. He
was amazing. Yeah, he's actually been good still. Yeah, he
got hurt for a while they've got like a too
eight e R A from Troy Melton in for it's
not even that all these other They went and got
Chris Paddock, who has been atrocious. Yeah it was Morton

(43:40):
is even worse.

Speaker 4 (43:40):
Yeah, yeah, Finnegan is back in healthy a point six
e R in fifteen twenty one strikeouts.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
In four walks. Yeah, that's wild for Kyle Finn. But yeah,
you know, even Raphael and Taro has been okay, ye,
top line results anyway, he's walking too many guys. Montero's right,
But yeah, it's just it's just crucial again, like you will, Best,
who has been good all year, just came in and

(44:09):
just immediately two guys on and they had no one
else to go to and just blew it. Uh yeah,
which will happen. It's just you know, you hate when
it happens. Speaking. Yeah, let's go to our second segment,
because we are a Mets podcast at least for one
more week. Yes, the Mets have dropped another series.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
They sure have.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
I will turn it over to.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
These were three of the worst games you'll ever watch
your life, including the one and again.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I still get messages from how do you watch your
your scheme?

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, I mean that they had multiple chances to walk
off the Nats on Saturday, didn't do it after kind
of a Keystone Cops level, ending to give up three runs.
Then yesterday Sean and I get but two run home
run did not seem men yet his first run hidden
right around Power Battle cannot great Defenders. He also showed

(45:06):
off in this series. And then you know, then it
was a Jacob Young game, like they just yeah, there,
it's sorry, it's Jacob Young game. That's what happened.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
No, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
It just like gave up a two run home and
oh yeah, and then it was a Young game.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, it was a tank to like this was really cheap.
Na see, Nunia has got all of that. But I
think that's that means eight feet Apparently it's you get
a little more in the tank. Uh yeah. So the
various Mets group chats I'm in and Mets Twitter Brit

(45:44):
Laard just completely.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
By the way two for four.

Speaker 5 (45:47):
Oh yeah yeah, and like I get it, but there's nothing,
there's nothing to do about it.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
It's there's been some horrible sequence, there's been some bad
injury luck. You know, they've haven't won a game, they've
been trailing in the eighth all season trailing after the
a fall season, I should say, uh, yeah, it's you know,
they're the Reds. They've let the Reds back at it,

(46:18):
and the Reds like just got swept by the A's
like last week or the week before two, Like the
Diamondbacks look like they were going to be the more
the dangerous team chasing them, and the Diamonbacks are right
there too. Now the Reds also have the tiebreaker because
they lost two or three to the Reds a couple
of weeks ago as well. And yeah, it's you know,
I've already saw there was like a Ken Rosenthal like

(46:40):
this one of the most embarrassing moments in Met's history.
I'm like, Ken, how about the sixth sexual harassment scandals
that like have happened over the last decade there? Over
that maybe, but uh, this is just a team underperforming
and having some bad luck, is all it is. This
is like the opposite of the Jeff Passes tweet with

(47:01):
the same it's the same milieu.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, I mean, presumably he meant on the field, it's.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Not even that embarrassing on the field, Like they three
of the worst games they played Baseball but like I've
seen worse Mets collapses recent memory, let alone my lifetime.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Very much like you think you're talking to.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, there's a book called The Worst Team Money Can Buy,
written by one of Ken's colleagues. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
I feel like I's coming up with this team and
I don't.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Well, I can't, Like it's difficult to explain for Mets fans.
Uh and Jarrett can be uh a punchy about things
like this, sometimes.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Doing it this morning. Yeah, I yes, less less to
Mets fans.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, but like the Mets are in great shape organizationally
in a way they have been in my entire lifetime
basically since like the cash and Davey Johnson and I
understand it doesn't feel like that, like the Mets make

(48:06):
your tummy hurt right now and you need to blame
someone for that, and it's you for watching all the games.
But it's like David Stearns does not owe you like
a personalized letter of apology for this season, Like Bets
fans are being very weird about it.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Well, it's look, no matter how this ends, whether they
sneak in and and then lose, sneak in and get
to the NLCS or the World Series or whatever, like
you're going to see those apology forms to David Stearns.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Yeah, yeah, of course in like June of next year,
right now, there's no like to your point, they are.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
They're fine.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Fans also have no object permanence worse than the baseball
media obviously. Oh yeah, there was somebody like you should
have signed Matthew Boyd not Sean and I Like if
they had signed Matthew Boyd instead of Sean and Ayah
broke up their favorite hangout show from twenty twenty four,
like that fan base would have gone nuts. Look this
song because it's terrible. I watched most of, if not all,
of these games, and like, it's terrible in baseball. Yeah,

(49:07):
and that's it. Elevens. They spent a lot, like the
funny thing, like it's gonna be a lot made if
they found money and did make the playoffs, which fine.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Also, look like Matt Matt Boyd has been very good.
Don't get me wrong. He's sown one hundred and seventy
four innings, which is staggering to me. And look, I
came out and said that signing completely changed my view
of the off season because I was like, oh shit,
like I is Matt Boyd's getting this money then, but
and I did not think he was going to be

(49:37):
either this good or this available. To be clear, Also,
his last five starts have been five earned, four earned.
He had one good start against the Nationals, which I understand,
and that's what have loved.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Yeah, they got good, then.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Four earned, then four earned, and those are in you know,
it's five and a third six five and three innings
and that's he gave up four earned in three against Pittsburgh. Okay,
he wouldn't have.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
Been saving this tail this this tailspin right like that's
his performance down the stretch has not been Now, maybe
they would have a bigger cushion.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Atally, like you can do like the perfect like precognition.
It's easy to do this.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
In right, it's right hindsight, clubn Burns.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
You'd be at the same spot like this is it
and I get it. Like when you spend a lot
of money and don't make the playoffs, there's going to
be fingers pointed. And you know, a baseball media that's
already gearing up for the lockout is gonna do whatever.
But like nobody talks about the pirates like this have
failed for like twenty years by not spend like the
teams that don't spend money and fail like we never

(50:40):
make a connection there, but like.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Well we do, we do, but not enough. Yeah, I mean, look,
this is to your point. This is like sequencing and
variance and a satisfying answer if it can be a
correct answer. And it's not satisfying.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
And they've had they've had bad injury luck or bad
injury outcome, but not as bad as the Dodger's right,
They've had like fortieth percentile outcomes for some of their stars,
but not like twentieth percentile. So it's like been very
it's been like a very slow like they've done this
for a couple of months now, where it's just been
like it's like fits and starts, Like even before the

(51:17):
NAT Series when they won the last game against San
Diego and we're you know, too clear of pretty much
everyone and I think three of the Reds at that point,
it was like, okay, they're they're fine now, right, But.

Speaker 7 (51:31):
Yeah, the other thing about spending this much money is
that like when you when you shoot this many shots,
like theoretically you're going to land somebody good right, we
just talked about finning in the Tiger's Open.

Speaker 4 (51:42):
You also had the opposite effect, where you can you
can when you when you have a season that comes
down to this, when coming down to literal tie breaker,
you can point to one signing you go, yeah, well,
I hated that's that's Frankie Montas.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yeah. Sure, and that Markie Mantess deal.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I hated it, Like trading for Ryan Helsley at the deadline,
but also like Ryan Halsley one of the five best
relievers in baseball, and they didn't give up that much
for him.

Speaker 6 (52:02):
And it's like it's so easy to cherry pick the.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Thing that no always yeah, you can find when it's
one game, you can find anything right. And they've lost
a lot of bad games. It is what it is.
The thing is like they still might make the playoffs.
They got to play one game better than the Reds
this week, and I know the Reds have the easier schedule,
but like they just gott swipp by the Athletics.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, yep, All right, shall we take a break.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
I got to get my apology letter ready for October.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Okay, we'll be back with the rest of the show.

(52:57):
Welcome back to episode four hundred and ninety three of
five and dive. We are on segment three, Tunnels are back.
Is this uh?

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Nobody nobody re Uh nobody retitled this. I should have
asked Jeff.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Id say, Patrick, is this another song? I don't know
or we know it? This is a one article roundup.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
There you go, Patrick, I'm going to give you the
lead on this. Okay, So we just published an article
today that is very much worth reading. Please go do So.
It is about uh, this is basically Stephen Sutton Brown
his Saber seminar presentation. We we textified it and put
up on the site today. It is about essentially using

(53:46):
Baseball's the using mlb is new bat tracking data to
tell us more about pictures.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
And I thought it was incredibly interesting. It's essentially saying, okay,
we have the stuff. We can quantify everything about a pitch, right,
we can once the pitch leaves the bat in the
pitcher's hand, we can track every single thing that it does.
And yet we still have guys swing these terrible, ugly
swings sliders, and it's one of those things that fans
hate more than anything else. You watch that slider and

(54:16):
you think, oh, my god, that's a slider and the
guy swings over the top of my six inches and
you're like, why do you do that? Why why are
hitters swing it pitches out of the zone more than ever?
And it turns out, well, instead of going like that
guy's really dumb, you could just use the swings to
go Okay, they're doing this, so what is making them
do that? And so he's basically he managed to create

(54:40):
the system where he can estimate essentially the expected rout
of the pitch, the probability that the pitch is going
to break or not, based on what you see and
what you see in various stages. Right, you have the
first stage, the ball leaves the hand and you have
a two D image and essentially you don't know whether
you can't see whether it's going to break in ornet

(55:00):
because nothing breaks right away. You have time to read
the spin and you.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Read out of the hand whether it's essentially straight out
of the hand or whether it's going to prit like
a crackit ball, and that's all you can tell. That's
pretty much it.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
And and that's like literally for fastball, curveball, you don't
even and you slider doesn't exactly or cutters or anything
like that. And so that's the point where you decide
if you are going to swing or not, like, what
does it look like it's going to fall on the
strike zone, I should try to swing, And then you
have a three D image later on, halfway through the
pitch where you used to go, okay, this is where

(55:33):
the ball is now going to go, or where you
think it's going to go based on what you read
in the first phase to say, Okay, this pitch is breaking.
It looked like it was going to go here, but
since it's breaking, I'm going to swing here, right, And
then you'd find out if you're right, essentially, and oftentimes
you're not. So it's really interesting because it's basically taking

(55:55):
the deception, this thing that has been notably difficult to
quantify right literally it's literally the stuff you can't quantify
why it is the deception, and you're saying, well, based
on how the hitters reacting, this is how we can
start to see like why some of these pictures are
working better than others. And essentially this is tunneling. So
like five six, I don't I don't know how many

(56:16):
years ago it was BP put out a bunch of
tunneling research and everyone was like, wow, this is great.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
How do we use it? And the answer is we
didn't know how to use it because.

Speaker 4 (56:26):
Only only Matt true Blood was able to use it
pretty much because there wasn't really that much data attached
to it. It just made perfect sense. And like I
in Slack, I made the nerdiest comparison ever. Tunneling research
five years ago felt like democratic democritis. Discovering the atom
without a telescope, like basically a Greek philosopher in four

(56:47):
hundred BC like nailed atomic theory. He's just like, you know,
while Aristotle is everyone has to catch up when he
like aristotles here like yeah, sneezers are made out of
earth because there's four ls and like everything is made
out of these four things. And the other guy's like, no,
there are tiny indivisible atoms. You just can't see him.
You'll have to take my word for it because we

(57:10):
have no way of checking this for like literally.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Two thousand years. And he nailed it.

Speaker 4 (57:14):
But also like it changed nothing at the time because
there was no way to confirm or build off of it.
And it really feels like that's what toeling research was it.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Was very much like me, and it was like, well
it made sense, it had good theory behind it.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
The data wasn't there, Yeah, and now the data is
there and it's looking like yeah, man, that was that
was right all along.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Yeah. I thought one of the parts of this article
that kind of made me smile was he walks through
how like because the model can know so much because
the pitch has already happened, right, Like, he can know
so much and it can accurately predict, like extremely well
based on the first one hundred milliseconds what the pitch

(57:56):
is going to be and where. And he was like,
but we're trying to figure this out for batters who
don't have all that information, Like so it's like just
on the first hundred milliseconds, like the model can can
nail this stuff, right. Yeah, it was like, but we
actually need to make it stupider to understand batters. Yeah,
and so it's like, so we have to bin stuff
into these overlapping bins of like it could be this,

(58:19):
it could be this, it could be this, it could
be this, and like spread out on like essentially create
uncertainty to understand how batters are functioning, which I thought
was like a very it makes a lot of sense,
but it did. It did make me smile. That was like,
we we have perfect knowledge and actually that's not helpful
right now.

Speaker 4 (58:40):
Well, yeah, it's like dramatic irony that you don't have
time to appreciate, right You don't have time to realize
that you're dead until you're dead.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Yeah, it's just a great article.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
I don't know if if there's more we want to
talk about, but like it's very exciting, like when I
read it, you know, and I frustrated Quig with this
last night. I think that what we're what this is
going to come to is that we need to do
a better job when we need to in the sense
that we need the data.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Just like you know we did before.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
I'm really interested to see what this means for check
swings and because that is the other demonstration of well
but I have a decision making process. Some batters need
to check their swings. Something don't okay, and just like
finding out like seeing which batters are reacting to which
pitches and figuring out whether they can or can't pull

(59:28):
up on that is going to be the next point
in which we decide I.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Thought, I think I misunderstood what you said because you
said something about the definition of a check swing.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
Well, I think that's how we're gonna I think that's
how we're going to get it cynically, is that when
not when?

Speaker 1 (59:42):
But that's where you're wrong, because they've already done it
like you are. You're acting like they haven't defined it
as forty five degrees, but they have. They've done it
in the AFL. That's what They're not going to use
this data to do it. They're just gonna pick a degree.
They're going to pick an angle and say, if it's
crossed that it's a check, it's not a check it
is is a swing, and if it's behind that, it's not.

(01:00:03):
Because that's how they're already doing like you're acting like
this this part where they haven't done something stupid and
bad doesn't exist. But it does. And now I think
what you're saying is is interesting and valuable. I agree
with that, But they're not going to use it to
inform a check swing, you know what I mean? We

(01:00:23):
might in research be like, Okay, who's good at at
pulling up? Who does it the most? Like who changes
their mind most often? Whatever?

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Like, I think that's that's like fertile ground to look into,
but the league is not. I mean that's I also
think that we're going to have another you know, was it,
uh god, who who was it was? That it was
a Giant with Wilmer Flores who had the check swing
that ended up deciding.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Darren Darren roof was naught.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
It was Flores.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
But we're gonna have another one of those, and people
are gonna get mad because October baseball ruins everything, and
people are gonna want this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
We mets NAT's game on a bad check swing call
on Sunday.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
So playoff Baseball demands exact exact they have is good
for the rest.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Of the sport.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
They have the uh the check swing cameras now like
they have all.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Right, Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Yeah, which is funny.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
What I'm saying is that it's gonna well I know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
But you have to swing so far for it to
register as a check swing now too on those cameras
for degrees.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Yeah is what the Yeah, I think it's terrible. I
think it's such a hand fisted implementation.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
But yeah, and it's gonna and it's coming like yeah,
it's they're going to do it. I wish for me.
What it comes down to, I really wish that we had.
What we did is just use these things for when
we care about this stuff. The problem is that because
October is going to demand it same just like you know,
runner leave the bag for millisecond replays, we need these

(01:02:04):
things for October when every single play matters, and they
ruin July baseball when it absolutely doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
They should turn it off. They do. Think the way
it works in the AFL is you get too challenges
per team, so it is restricted somewhat. It's still going
to happen in July, but like you're not doing it
every single time. Basically, all right, let's go to our
fourth segment around the horn. Milwaukee suffers yet another picture injury.

(01:02:34):
Brandon Woodroffe has a lat strain on his right side.
He still technically could be available for the NLDS.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
I tend to think, you know, Latin oblique stuff, it
doesn't sound great, tends to take thirty ish.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Days on average.

Speaker 4 (01:02:50):
Yeah, and you know, damn for Woodruff. This is second
time like this. This injury isn't as serious as the
last time, but this is the second time in a
row where he had something come up literally the week
before the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
That's rough. Uh yeah, and it's rough for Milwaukee, who
again not not bad, but certainly not playing to their
seasonal standard. I guess. Uh. Jeff has repeatedly mentioned, as
we've cycled through all these guys, Robert Gasser, it's Jeff,
You're finally right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
I mean, he's fine. I'm not a huge as an option.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
I wasn't saying you were like giving a full throated endorsement.
I mean he's interesting, he's interested. Yeah, yeah, he was.
He was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
He's coming off Tommy John surgery. But he's he got
him in the right yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Uh read Garrett and Trevor McGill or Tyler Tyler. Oh,
I didn't realize he was that. So this is the
we're moving on to the Mets. This is uh, Garrett
and Tyler McGill are looking at John surgery. So as
good as shape as the Mets are in organizationally' that's

(01:04:05):
tough for twenty twenty six. It is yesh. On the
Dodgers front, Will Smith has a hairline fracture on his hands.
This it's been what's keeping them out they had originally
said it was a contusion. I mean, you know, hairline
fracture stuff is what.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
We're gonna have to It's no longer to be wally pipped.
It's gonna be uh vetted.

Speaker 4 (01:04:25):
Yeah, honestly, Like, yeah, so he's he's basically.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Done for the regular season. They're not sure if he
could be available Smith. Yeah, to be clear, by the
time they entered the postseason, it's they're going to be
in the wild card game, so it's going to be sooner.
He this was off a foul tip. Like a foul
tip caught him in his throwing hand. Yeah, I mean,

(01:04:51):
we'll see. Has been getting the bulk of the playing time,
not rushing. You have that here in the in the dock.
Rushing has been pretty bad offensively, So he's also been
a little weird defensively. It's we remember past balls. He's
got a great arm. I I think he's fine defensively,
but it's he's just had some moments. They also put
him in a weird situation. Yeah, he's been playing, you know. Yeah,

(01:05:17):
And and I understand we talked about it at the time,
and like I kind of understand what they were doing.
They wanted a better bench than Austin Barnes or whatever.
But like it's that that is a tough scenario to
have to succeed it. I think if you're Dalton Rushing
so uh and it's just been playing well and he
the pitching has been on an absolute tear. Yeah uh,

(01:05:37):
while he's been the catcher. Some of that is just
they're finally healthy. But like the I should the starting pitching,
I should say, uh, the Tiger's DFA Charlie Morton. We
we talked about this a little bit earlier. Morton has
been worse than Paddock. Those those acquisitions have not gone well.

(01:05:58):
Seven points you're a nine e r A want only
a one oh four? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
Well, you know, dearI loves Charlie Morton. He can stop walking.
He can stop walking anytime, Betters anytime he wants to.
I feel like I feel like dra is like rationalizing
Charlie Morton's pitching style. Like, no, he could get control,
he could get comm anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Is this it for Charlie Morton? I don't know. I mean,
I guess that's probably up to Charlie Morton. He can
probably get another. I don't know, Maybe it's not guaranteed.
Maybe he gets a maybe spring training invite, but it
wouldn't surprise me if he could look Rich Hill pitched
for a team this year. You could convince me Charlie
Morton latches on somewhere next year. And you can even
convince me he gets a guaranteed deal from team that

(01:06:42):
just wants some innings taken up on it. You know,
it's like a couple million boxers.

Speaker 4 (01:06:46):
The Royals in the Florida area exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Uh, and we know it's it for somebody. Clayton Kershaw,
shortly after the podcast uh last week, announced that this
would be his final season. He made his final regular
season start in Dodger Stadium. I don't know how he
he didn't fit on this team's postseason roster that well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
But use him to close like they did in Washington.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
It is it's a little tragic, nothing to even if
you wanted to do that, right, Like, and I was
at that game. By the way, he he's like his
velo does not bump up in relief, Like he's already
thrown as hard as he can. They have about nine lefties.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Yeah, like he can't even be like, oh, we'll use
him as a third or even fourth lefty, like they
can't use him there, like he just doesn't fit on
the roster. But I don't know if they're going to
do that to him.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Also, Blake Snell and Tyler Glass now start to make
it through the week healthy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Yeah that is, that's true. But even even so, like
I guess he would be the fourth guy, but you
could and she has a better pitcher.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
She and I get well actually play up in the pen.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
I think, yes, I agree with that, but like they Yeah,
I don't know. It's it's a weird situation. Patrick, I'm
looking at it right now. It's tragic that Kershaw's last
game will be in the Paaffs. They shouldn't be that way.

(01:08:33):
Let's see when so Kershaw just pitched. I want to
say he's gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
End up pitching this next series which the Dodgers are.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
Playing the Uh, you're playing the Diamond.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Let's see defensive lands.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Okay, So Kershaw started on Friday, so he should start
on Tuesday. I think will maybe not, maybe they'll push
it will be Tuesday or Wednesday. I think I don't
think that he gets pushed to the mirrors. I think
I think he'll pitch against the timebacks and then'll be

(01:09:12):
his last one. Yeah, but I will not get a
chance to see him, sadly tragic in that sense as well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I feel fortunate I
got to catch him in Baltimore. The one game I
went to was was him. I got to go with
my dad and my older son. Look, this is a
little I know how a lot of people feel about him,
and I don't. I don't fault them, and I actually

(01:09:42):
agree in significant I would say, like probably ninety nine
zero point nine percent of it. I think he's done
a lot of damage to his own image. I don't
know if he's done it to his legacy, but you know, uh,
we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Probably should probably it probably should.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
But like I don't know if you will. That's not at.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
That Twitter bubble too, right, is the thing?

Speaker 6 (01:10:11):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Like I mean, I think largely.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
At baseball fans just don't are either unaware of this
or don't care about it real large.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Yeah, I I also think that there's I don't know.
I don't want to get yelled at, but but I
don't think he's I want to be clear that what
I'm about to say is I don't think it undoes
any of the damage. And I do think he's caused
a lot of damage. And and I think it's a problem.
And I don't have a problem with people bringing up

(01:10:40):
the stuff they bring up about him every time because
they're right. I don't think it's malicious in the way
that some other like even Blake Trying to right like
and Blake Trynon has some he's it's like somehow a
joke with him, where it's like less of one for Kershaw.
And I think that's because I mean one is like

(01:11:02):
trying and one is Slaton Kershaw. I think Kershaw is
just kind of like ignorant of so much like the
whole the whole thing with the sisters like that that
to me just showed so much ignorance. Yeah, And and
I don't he's he's an extremely religious person and there's

(01:11:24):
often a lot of hate there. I from what I've
read from the book that was written about him, to
the various articles, to what he said, doesn't indicate like
he has hate for those people. It's just about himself, right,
which is which is extremely selfish and obnoxious and just
shut your mouth, right like you, especially if you don't

(01:11:46):
have a problem with other people, and it's it is
about yourself. Just shut your mouth then, like let people
have their day. Every other day is fucking your day, right,
But I don't know that. That's just a sense I've got.
It's it's absolutely possible I'm wrong, and I think it's
I don't know. It's a bummer to me because he
has as a fan. And and this is why I

(01:12:08):
think a lot of people who who were fans or
even maybe still are and why it hurts so much
is like he's given so much to me as a fan,
as a.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Dodgers fan, and like you don't know any of these people, right.

Speaker 4 (01:12:19):
Like this, yeah, but that doesn't help, right, Like he's
doing the damn right, but it is him sewing or
you know, this is him sewing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
I don't. I don't feel bad for him, no, forgetting that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
I do think there's like a strain of like enjoying
being a hater about it as a fan, more.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
Of it than than some others for people.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
He probably does. And again I don't think any of
it's unfair per se, but it's very it's very much
like you don't really want like your faves pulled on
this either because you're not gonna write the results and
like Kirshall has done it publicly in our way and
as as a face of that franchise that has done
a lot of damage in his mouth.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
He showed his ass, you know, a bunch of But.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
No, it's not going to I don't think it's going to.
Look he's going to go under the Hall of Fame
first ballad for what.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
He do on the pile, despite what the one guy
comment or yeah, yeah, and I and again I think
and I'm not trying to say this like I feel
bad for it. I think he's done this to himself, right,
but I think it's a shame he did it to himself,
you know what I mean, because I think other other
than that, like it's an I'm not trying to sweep

(01:13:33):
it under the rug, like it's it's an absolutely remarkable career.
And I think it's like a shame that this that
that along with the playoffs struggles are kind of the
first things that people are are going to right now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
And I understand it. But but yeah, anyway, uh, he
will be done after one we're start. I honestly don't
know how he gets into a playoffs game. They like
you nine was too many. But if you look at
their playoff roster real quick, like, it's just in the
in relief they have.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Tanner Scott, you don't want to you don't want to
see any of them.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
I don't want to see him either, yeah, fair enough, honestly.
And that's not a playoff joke. It's just like I
don't feel more confident in him. It's it's Tanner Scott,
it's Alex Vessia, Jack Dryer, and I do. Actually I'm
happy to see Jack Dryer. Robleski uh and there's another

(01:14:30):
Tony band, right, that's that's five, that's five left in believers.
They're they're potentially going to put Roki Sasaki on this
in this playoff bullpen just because he's right handed.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Speak chaos.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Yeah, not recommend it. I mean Brock Stewart, who's been awful,
is probably going to be on this playoff roster because
he's right handed.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Will gonna make it, Will kleinb Mike.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
I don't think Herbie yates this mhm. He's been so bad.
I don't think Blake Trenton should. But Dave Roberts says
he has his like undying trust or whatever. I don't
I don't remember the exact word, but it was like,
I absolutely trust him.

Speaker 4 (01:15:13):
David Roberts is definitely and toys being taken.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Away from territory. I think with this bill, oh my god,
I wish, I wish it's time that brings us to
the game.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
All right, See, you guys can decide whether you going
to the booth for this one or not. It is
it's from another rear submitted one. Thank you very much.
This was for Nate Freeberg. This one he calls positional plurality.
And so basically, we're gonna give you fifteen players throughout
history who have played more than one position, and all

(01:15:47):
you have to do is tell me which position they
played the most of.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Let's do the booth for this. I think it's I
also do want to note I try and open these emails,
and I'm kind of as quickly as possible, but just
to whatever. So I didn't look. But I believe Nate
did us a real solid in pasting in the answers.
But he he covered them like he blacked. He redacted

(01:16:15):
it basically by by doing the whole thing in black.
And so we can Patrick, who's running them, can reveal
it to himself but I didn't see it. So I
want to be very clear. I appreciate all the games,
but if you put the answers right there, it's possible
we're going to see them. So like hiding them either
in a in an attachment or or doing what Nate

(01:16:35):
did is extremely healthed. Just don't don't open your email, right,
that's that is actually not a bad solution.

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
All right, all right, so we're all right, Jeff goes first.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
All right, So.

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
So Jeff, tell me what position did Babe Ruth play
the most deaf?

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Right field?

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
Alex Rodriguez oh mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):
Mmmm, third base. I think I think there's a story
about him ended up playing more than.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
Third in the shortstop Ernie Banks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
It's plurality. It's like first base, isn't it Robin yet,
I'm gonna guess he bounced around the outfield enough that
it's shortstop. Uh, Paul Mallider, just dh physicians.

Speaker 4 (01:17:32):
Yes, it is a possision, al right, Pete Rose, first base,
Julio Franco, it's a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Third base.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
Uh, Brandon Inge, I.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Can't do the Mike Francesca accent. Like Brandon Inch is
a catcher. Brand An Inch is a catcher.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
Okay, Jim Tolly h.

Speaker 4 (01:18:05):
D h.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Uh Lance Berkman wrist.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
I don't remember, honestly, I don't remember which out fel
position Lance Berkman played. Uh so I give look really
bad here. I will say left field?

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
Uh one U reba.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
Mmmm it's an interesting one.

Speaker 7 (01:18:27):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Let's go a shortstop for fun, Michael Young he had
to have played too much short style.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Dimitri Young.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
First base?

Speaker 4 (01:18:42):
Uh, Kevin Nucleus third and Russell and the muscle.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
Brain you o DH all away?

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
Okay, all right, Craig head sets on so right now,
Jeff out of fifteen, Jeff got one.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Correct. Okay, I
don't like I feel like you do this. When I
go second, you give me like a score update, and
when I go first, you just never say anything. And
and now I I feel that this is just Craig
reflect for a moment. Why that might be?

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Does that get marked down on the big gameat wow?

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
I'm just saying these variables are not truly independent, all right,
all right, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
All right, so Greg, you know you could be like
Craig got three out of fifteen, and Jeff might think, oh, oh,
these are hard. That's possible. I suppose.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Cut a couple of different ways.

Speaker 4 (01:19:55):
Greg, if I could, Greg, now that you're probably in more.
Babe Ruth, Oh, now, can I ask a clarifying question?

Speaker 1 (01:20:08):
Is outfield? You have to pick field?

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
You have to pick which field? So left, center, right,
and d H is a position pinch hit or is not?
Which I would almost like as also being a jerk
almost said about Jim.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Tell me, I don't said the babe Ruth. Okay, Babe
Ruth might be the meanest one. And having a start
is very good.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
Alex Rodriguez, how long did he? Uh? But some of
that was at d H, mister year. Yeah, let's say shortstop.

(01:20:54):
I don't know. Ernie Banks, oh god, yeah, this is
where I'm sure like that. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:21:09):
He was like shortstop and center field, right, I think
I don't know. I'll say center field.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
I have no idea. I apologize to any Banks. Uh, okay, cool,
let's pick more modern guys.

Speaker 4 (01:21:25):
You know, uh, I got bad news for you about
the rest of this. Listen, You're gonna get a little
more modern.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
I don't know. For yeah, it's a center field. I
don't know, okay, Paul Matter, first base, Pete Rose, oh, uh,

(01:21:58):
first base? All right?

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
After six, Jeff's up four to three, uh, jo Alio Franco,
first base, Brandon Inge, Oh, third base, Jim.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Tell me me you said DH is a separate position. Yes,
DH is a separate position. But he spent so long.
Let's say first base again, just saying first base a lot, okay,

(01:22:39):
Lance Berkman, Oh, that's a tough well. He split time
in center and the corners, So I'm gonna say first base.

Speaker 4 (01:22:52):
Again, okay, all right, and after ten, Craig is now
winning six to five, so you need three of these.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
Last five to win. Keep giving me first base options
one your Rebay Oh, no, no, that's a that's a
good one, good one. Yeah. Man. He played so much
third at the end. I'm gonna say short though, Okay,

(01:23:28):
he thanked a lot early. Michael Young mm hmmm mm
hmm sure, yeah, ah, just picking late career Dodgers at
this point. A yeah, uh, Michael Young. And I honestly

(01:23:53):
don't remember now how long he played third. I know
he ended up, but I don't remember if that's just
like a few years at the end of his career,
and that's what I remember, uh when all the discussions
are about how classy he was or like is he
a short stud? Did he play six? All right?

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Mm hmm, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
Gonna say third. I feel bad about it. I don't
think that's right, but I'm gonna say it. Dimitri Young,
Oh oh he really that's a real mix of of outfield,
first and DH. I'm gonna say I feel like I'm
gonna say right field that I truly don't know. That's

(01:24:37):
a real toss up to me. Kevin Nucleus, These are good.
These are good.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
This was the point we didn't get Ian Desmond in here.

Speaker 8 (01:24:51):
Yeah, I feel like I'm not picking anyone for DHD.
I'm gonna say DH for Ugolas all right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
And lastly, you need this one to tie Russell Branyon.
Oh god, first base for I should have Why did
I say DH? I should have said first base before?

Speaker 4 (01:25:13):
Shit?

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
Fuck it, first base, let's lose on it.

Speaker 4 (01:25:20):
Incredible congratulations to Jeff who winsday. Congratulations and Craig on
abandoning his first base strategy just at the time when
he should have kept going on it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
Yeah, all right, so.

Speaker 4 (01:25:32):
We'll go through him, babe, Ruth played right field about
seventy times more than he played left field, and a
thousand times more than he pitched.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
I remember they's a right fielder. In the new historical abstract.

Speaker 4 (01:25:43):
A rod edges out shortstop over third base one. Ernie
Banks was a first baseman for the second half of
his career, just a little bit longer than he was
a shortstop. Robin Yet shortstop fourteen sixty eight, center field
eleven thirty nine. Paul Muhtor DHD for like, yeah, I
felt bad about the problem of Monitor is that he

(01:26:03):
did mounce around a ton early in his career, and
then he dated so much late in his career that
was it. Pete Rose was in fact a first baseman
nine hundred and five, first base six hundred and fifty two,
left field six twenty seven, third base six hundred, second
base five hundred one right field. There's a lot who
played a lot of posisions so much Holeo Franco. I

(01:26:23):
like this one a lot Franco. Most of you. I
don't think either of you got first or second on
Franco because he was a shortstop first and then second
base for like five years. He was a second base.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
I had no idea. Yeah, I mean, I know he
I knew he was a shortstop, but I thought it
was more in the like my two years and moved off.

Speaker 4 (01:26:45):
Yeah, like the Jim Tommy third base situation where yeah,
Jim Tomy played third base.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
For like four longer than you would think.

Speaker 4 (01:26:51):
Yeah, but like for like four or five years, but
he was a first baseman primarily. Brandon Inge was in
fact third base three times as often as he was
a catcher. Lance Berkman first base, So good job, Craig,
you were really on that first base thing. Given points
on first base, we'll tag flag this here. We'll talk
about this later. That Lance Berkman first base, then left

(01:27:12):
field and right field kind of split. I think if
you counted center field counted outfield together, Berkman was an
oilfielder more than a first base. Yeah, but he's spreader
gun one ab is a short stop in her seventy
one to fin or sixty eight third base. Michael Young
also a short stop, basically at the same exact proportions, except.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
See I could have I could have had it there too.

Speaker 4 (01:27:32):
I felt, Yeah, Dimitri Young first base over almost you
were right, He's like it's first base, outfield er DH
almost perfectly split in thirty I.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
Said, I said that one was such a toss up
to me, it felt very even.

Speaker 4 (01:27:45):
Should have struck on first base. Same with Kevin Euchless,
should have stuck with first base five or fifty four
games four and eighteen at third base, and Russell the
mussele Branion, uh third base, more third base than anything else.
But he also like his career just didn't last long
though a lot of DH first base time. At the
end uh Twitter, he went through base two and sixteen

(01:28:06):
at first base, one hundred and twenty four left field,
and only one hundred and one at d So there
you go.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
Very good game. Those are tough. Those are tough. They
were good. Tough job, well done. Thank you for running, Patrick,
thank you both for cohosting, and thank you to our
listeners for joining us on another episode of Five and Dive,
brought to you by the Baseball Perspective podcast Network. You
can get in touch with the show and send us
a game at five and Dive at Baseball perspectives dot com.
We are wherever you get your podcasts. Search for Baseball

(01:28:36):
Perspectives podcast Network and we'll be in that feed if
you like what we're doing. Drop us a five star rating,
not anything less than that. If you if you feel
less than that, you're valid. I don't. I don't doubt you.
It's it's a valid feeling. But please just don't enter
it into the system. And if you've been waiting for
the pod to be over, your time is now.

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
And so will be.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
I can my father still the fuck you do?

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
I would can be answering day the older

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