Five and Dive, Episode 494: The Dreaded LAramie

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:31):
Welcome to episode four ninety four of five Dive. It
is Thursday, September twenty fifth. I'm your host, Greig Goldstein,
joined as usual by Patrick Dubuque and Jeffrey pattern Astro.
I will tell our listeners what I just told these two.
I will try and keep the coffee to a minimum
or on mute. But kids are back in school and

(00:55):
I am afflicted. I am extremely coming down with something.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm enjoying the gravelly baritone.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thanks. I honestly, I'm a little disappointed sometimes when I've
said this before, but when I'm sick, sometimes I think
I sound better. I don't think I sound much better here.
I mostly sound congested, as opposed to like something going
on in my throat, which helps a little sometimes. But
it's all the negative, but none of the positive.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
You have such a good sleep schedule. I'm surprised you
came down with something.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, it's it's going very well over here. How are
you guys doing.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm fine. I'm going to go to a baseball game today,
the first baseball game I've been two all year. I
just missed two parties. And it's funny because like the
Mariners could in fact clinch bye today, which I don't
know if that qualifies for a third party. I feel
like I was talking about this, Craig, and you said, oh,

(01:53):
they won the division. I'm like, that's great. I don't.
I cannot divisions. Stop mattering between when the mayor last
one a division and this time they have anything matter
to you.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
You don't have to bend to the will of the
league on this.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
I was actually, but the Mariners. The Mariners don't win
put with divisions. It's not it's not a thing I
can collect.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
But they did.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
They did this time.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
That's the point.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's why I said congratulations.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
But it's not But it's not a.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
They don't do it, but they have done it.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
They have done it. But it's not a thing that
they do. It happened. If I find twenty dollars on
the street, it's not a thing I do, just the
thing that happened.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
But if someone says, hey, nice fine of twenty dollars,
you're like, hey, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
But I don't go yeah, I'm a twenty dollars finder.
I do that.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
It's it's the Mariner's involved division win.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Meanwhile, the Buye has like actual import like no.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
See this This is so backwards.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
If they win the division but they still do in
the wild card, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Stupid playoff structure has warped your mind.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Who doesn't like an excuse to drink champagne three days
in a row.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
It can't warp my mind because it's been twenty years,
I mean one in a series, they played one game
at home.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Going to be tolerant of this look. I will celebrate
Seattle given that they have it has been literally twenty
four years since they won the division, and that they
haven't made the playoffs. I think people should celebrate it.
I will be tolerant of that. I will not be
tolerant of downplaying what they've done. They're always bad, That's

(03:27):
why you.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I'm not downloading. I'm not downplaying that they've won. I'm
downplaying the fact the mechanical advantages of the division. Tonight
will be my celebration when they get.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Won the division, I'm not I'm not asking you to
celebrate them, and they want winning. I'm telling you what
they won. They won the West the Astros street guess what.
You don't have to hear seven or however many division
wins in a row. The Astros have had. You don't
have to hear that fact anymore.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Regulations. I didn't hear it until now. I forgot about yes,
because certain because teams make the playoffs with that Like, look,
you the Mariners have won one.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
This is everyone ignor. He's finding a way to be
miserable and.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
I'm not missering.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
You also have an entire segment about Seattle winning the
division coming up.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
God, fine, this is our Yeah, if you want number two.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
If you want to celebrate, celebrate getting to see Braction
Fulford live.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, that sounds like a nice band, honestly, Brax and
full Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
The Mariners have won one playoff series in twenty four years.
The fact that they get to skip one is huge,
Like they.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's not win. That's not winning a playoff series either.
Guess what if they lose in the in the division series?
They didn't win a playoff series.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
To me, they did because they survived one.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Okay, but you're the only one.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I can be the only one. Jeff, how's how's it going?

Speaker 3 (04:56):
He's going find Craig.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Okay, shall we get into the show, su All right, well,
let's go to our first segment, which one of my
garbage teams are you? This is clearly a jeff And
and Craig's segment, although I frankly should.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Be apparently also apparently Patrick.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, well, my team, my team. Apparently according to Pacoda,
my team has a one and four chance of winning
the Old Series Right now, I don't know. I can't
slim with you guys anymore.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, no, you can't.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
And then in the land of frauds, the half fraud
is king. I guess ye.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Uh, Jeffrey, how's uh? How's which which one of my
garbage teams are we talking about here?

Speaker 3 (05:40):
I mean I put the Dodgers first. We can start
with the Mets. I guess that's whatever you want to do. Well,
I guess the dog The Mets played two bad games
in a row, too, but they won one of them.
I guess the Dodgers won one of them too. The
Dodgers bullpen that I have to follow vicariously now, yeah,
at least for one more day. A lot of it recently, unfortunately,

(06:02):
is not.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Honestly, it's not that much of it. All their starters
have been going six and seven, an It's true.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
The scary part yeah uh after was it?

Speaker 5 (06:12):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Kenner Scott blew it on Monday. Yes, this is a
three to one lead and they lost four three.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
It was a four nothing lead and they lost five
to four.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
It was four to two going into the ninth.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, I think that's right, and they lost in Yeah, no, sorry,
four to three going into the ninth and Carter Winriquez
gave up.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Oh right, right right.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
It was four nothing, then four to three and then yes,
five four. It was four to one this game, and
they didn't get to the ninth. They got to the eighth.
And again it's I gave don Edgardo Henriquez is involved
once again. Yeah, primarily, yeah, no, it wasn't primarily Alex Vassia,
who's been like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
They're good leaders honestly.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Oh yeah, a little bit of Ben rod fand I
guess well the ABS system will cleaned that up next year, Craig.
But yeah, they didn't up winning this game somehow.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
This is extremely stupidly.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Extremely stupidly. So I think they're still what tow up
on the Padres.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
They are I think two and a half.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Two and a half. How are they in a.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Weird I think they're they're half game off.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
The Padres, a day off today. Guess a day off today?

Speaker 5 (07:18):
Whatever?

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, uh, this is a weirdly miserable watch. It's a
good team that andie Pa has is hitting homers and
they can score runs, and they've gotten two good starts
in a row from uh Otani and Blakes. Now, as
you would expect, rookie Soazaki came out of the pen
and looked good for an inning.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Look, but we should have thrown him for two.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
But really, I I had that thought, but I also
I do Dave does this, and I don't always agree
with it, but like in this case, like just getting
him out on a win, sure, probably pretty good.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
He's gonna throw multiple innings in the playoffs is surely.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
No, they should throw him. He should throw multiple Indians.
But I understand like he looked good. I don't know
if he has any idea where the ball is going. Sure,
but it was ninety eight to one hundred. There was
some movement on some of those fastballs. I don't know
one of.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Them, some of them not like them. It feel like
a pretty dead zuond fastball.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Oh no, no for sure, But like but when it
had armside run, I don't know why or if it
was intentional or whatever, and the splitter looks pretty good. Sure,
definitely played up in a in a short burst.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
It really does just feel like some of these leaders
they just like cannot get it out, you know, driver away.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Jack Dryer has been good all year, seems to maybe
be hitting a wall. Could be with a reliever, you
don't know if it's hitting a wall or just a
weird patch. Alex Alex Messi has hit these walls like
multiple times this season when he's throwing ninety two uh oh,
and when he's throwing ninety four. Oh for the batter,
But like it's such a small difference, but it's such

(08:58):
a big difference.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Right now, you don't if you're a wall, I just
you know, it's just all trouble getting loose or you're
throwing it back to back or what. It's just not
there today, right like exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
And the slider was not as sharp for Vessia. But
like there are times he's absolutely been their best reliever.
Yeah they have. I mean so Clayton Kershaw pitched the
ninth thinny. Yes, some of this is Dave having a
flair for a dramatics. Some of the Kershaw knows he's
not going to make the playoff roster as a starter,
if at all so, he volunteered to do this, he

(09:30):
will make the season endings start in Seattle on Sunday.
I think some of this is like again, Dave's Dave
loves a moment, right, but he vol Kershaw volunteered to
do this on his throat day, right.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
This is absolutely fine when it does not involve my
team tangentially.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, I've honestly, I think I've talked myself into the
idea that Clayton Kershaw should just be the closer. Here's
the thing, here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
You did not see it. Patrick just did a spit
take of his instant coffee.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
I know then he's not. I realize it's a bad idea.
I'm not. I'm not blind to that. They're all bad ideas, right,
Tanner Scott is You can't tell me Tanner Scott is
better than Clayton Kershall.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Right now, we should have They brought in Blake Trinan
to relieve a Jack Dryer.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Jesus Christ with the bases low.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Jack Dryer had thrown like six pitches because they issued
two intentional walks and there was a sacrifice spot in
the getning but look.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
I watched the Mariners in the nineties. Sometimes you just
need a new guy to hate. Sometimes you're just like
I need sometimes it should.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Be the old guy.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Your board of Arthur Rhodes, Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Oh, Bob, No, Arthur Rhodes was like the palette of
compared to like we're talking Bobby Yam Charlton that era. Yeah, okay,
It's like who's who's got the matches today?

Speaker 1 (10:59):
I well, and that is like all these relievers are
showing up with matches and kerosene right like I But
here's here's one, honestly the biggest selling point to me
on Kershaw. He's not gonna miss bats, which is terrifying.
But none of these guys are missing bats. They're not
They're not striking anywhere and they all just walk guys.
And I honestly think Kershaw could at least throw it

(11:21):
in the zone, right, throw it in the zone, hope
for some weak contact. And that's it. This this bullpen
is gonna have to be and it Sheehan, who I
think will solve a number of problems. Some rob Bleski
who did get the saved. He should be a multi

(11:41):
inning guy as well. Both she Hanna and Robleski should
be throwing two to three innings. Sosaki should be throwing
one to two maybe some kershaw and that should probably
be it. That's not good, it's still real bad, but
that should probably right. The get healthy in time.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
I don't know the advantage of like getting into the
playoffs is you can shorten your roster, right, you know,
you can use your good four starter who stuffed your
play up in short burst as a multating reliever fireman
type thing. You you can just decide not to use

(12:24):
trying it. They may still use Blake trying Dave Roberts
will not decide not to use right, But like, theoretically
you can do this, Yeah, how much they actually do it?
And look we're only a year removed from them. Basically
their version of pitching chaos. They have the three four

(12:47):
shean right like if if Tyler Glass now gets hurt
this week, which is always possible.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Uh, Like they have four without class to so they
have problem right, like they're they if they had twenty
twenty four Landon Knack and Brent Honeywell, you feel great about.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
This team right now? Is the funny thing they can'teep
to get it all together in one in one playoffs.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
No, yeah, well it's I don't feel good about Landon Knacure. Fine,
but but but and like honeywell, like someone posted this,
and I don't want to get too far into like
just fandom armshare analysis, but like someone said, like, oh,
they don't have dogs, like they don't like it does
not seem like they have anyone coming out and.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Like, right, but that's that's easy to be easy to
say when they're not pitching though, right, Like, as I said,
I don't want to get like Breakron and Tanner, Scott
are capable of just making Scott is not this year,
not right now, but they have been capable of doing
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yes, I mean this is where we say the line, right,
this is where you taught you bring up Chris mat Or. Yeah,
you have Mario Pettitt. You know you you pick your
your favorite vaguely consistent reliever, and that's who you miss,
like those sick guys who actually are a good year year, Yeah,
because no one else is well.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
And again I do like I think, go look at
Emma Chian's last three starts or whatever, him coming out
in relief. He could be a relief Ace. Yeah, I'm
not saying it'll play out that way, but he has
that ability. Mm that could do a lot for this team, right.
I mean again, if if you have one guy who

(14:30):
can throw two innings that you're confident in, right, you're
basically playing with one inning a game, the way the
Dodgers' rotation has thrown. Otani went six. Uh you know
Snell went six, He went seven the start before Yamamoto
can go seven. Right, These are if.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
You and if you have that rich guy, if they
get in trouble in the sixth inning or even the
fifth inning, right, you can stretch the game out that way.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Right exactly. And that's why I mean she really should
be go I don't again, he should be fine with
the updowns. Yeah, I don't care if you keep him
on you know, a two days off schedule, if you
can get three innings out of him, and Robleski is
probably somewhere in between that but can probably be stretched
to three. So you can do essentially six and three

(15:18):
on two of your games, and then you know, figure
out the third one. You know, it's it's hope, Hope
Vesia is better. Hope you know whoever they they will
not we put this in the around the Horn. But
they won't have Kirby Yates, but that's that's probably addition
by subtraction. Right at this point, they won't have Michael Kopak.

(15:39):
That's probably addition by subtraction. At this point, they might
have Brock Stewart, who Dave Dave Roberts said, Uh, it's pitchable,
but he's still feeling some pain, which we should use
as a point that all these guys pitch with some
level of discomfort. But that's not really what you want
to hear either.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
We're getting we're getting close to having Will Klan on
this rush.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah. Well, and honestly, Will kleinb looked. You can't tell me.
I don't know that. I feel any less confident and
Will Kline than I do. Tanner Scott or.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Like he's got good stuff.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah he does. It's just whether he can find the zone,
which is all of their pictures right, Yes, except for
Clayton Kershaw, which is why he should be the closer.
You're shaking your head, Patrick, like I want to be like,
debate me, am, I to prove me I'm wrong, prove
me I'm wrong. Who do you want to be the
closer on the roster, go ahead and take a look.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
No, that's fine. I just I'm just looking forward to
Clayton Kersha post season Clayton Kershaw.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
And this is the other part is that it sets
all that up. It's I mean, like you just have
to lean in right. It could be redemptive. It absolutely
won't be. And and that's part of it. At this
someone said, like in the middle of the game with
the bullpen blowing it yesterday, I think when Kershaw was
coming in and it was Kyle Bland from Pictureless who

(16:56):
you know, a friend, and he said like, can we
get a status check? And I'm like, I'm this is
a good bit, honestly good. Yes, like I have in
the last week of the season turned the corner. It's
funny to me now. So that's where I am. And
that's that's informs the Kersh I'll take. Let's talk about
your garbage team.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
So watching this on game day because again I am
blacked out from Diamondbacks games. Uh Monday, I just went
to sleep. I was tired or Tuesday sorry, last night
at a like eleven thirty, this game when on forever,
like after already having to suffer through this in the
Pirates and Reds game while the kid was at dance class.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
I then in your way at least, I guess they
both went my way ultimately, Yes.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
But like it's just a miserable experience to be a
reliant on these teams to play poorly, which I mean
they do a lot because they're not good baseball teams,
and then to have them come out against the Cubs
like they played. They were down one on Tuesday and
actually clued their way back in one, which believed for them,

(18:05):
and then Tong just didn't have it. And I get
they didn't. So Peterson went one and a third. He's
just cooked. I'm sure we're going to find out there's
an injury. After the season. They had the option. They
used Brazibond for a bunch of innings. They had the
option to option him and call up somebody a fresh
arm with Wane like Brandon Waddow, who's like started for
them this year. It's been a multenate reliever at times too,

(18:29):
you know, knowing that Joonah Tong who's not going to
give you a ton of length at this point anyway,
it's pitching the next day and is potentially going to
have a blow upstart, which he did. So they ended
up having Sean Manyah and Clay Holmes throw on their
throat day because they're piggybacking right now and get two
innings from Ryan Helsley. Because they torched the pen previous day,
they never really got back in it. It's fine, it

(18:50):
was I.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Do feel the need to interject that Ryan Helsley got
our relief pitcher pitch of the day.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
He's been better. Yeah, you look good. Also now down
for today because he threw two innings yesterday, like Mendoza
is not. They didn't give him a roster. He could
really manage this game. And again, when you're down, you're
not going to make five six run comebacks. Somebody they
got us the six to two. Mark Fientos was still

(19:17):
in the field for some reason. It made several bad
plays and the kind of Mark Fiano is also kind
of let the lead get there because he's just not
a good defensive third basement. His play he probably should
have made in the second inning as well the third inning.
But they you know, I say this, like the Reds

(19:38):
and Diamondbacks are not good teams. The Mets are not
playing like one and haven't for months. At this point,
they have no pitching outside have Nolan McLain who goes today,
and Clay Holmes has been fine. I don't they're still
a game up. They don't have the tiebreaker over either
of these teams, but they have Nolan McLain going today,
and then they go to Miami and they've never, you know,

(19:58):
coughed it up against the Marlins in the season before,
in the midst of a collapse, So they've got that
going for them.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Well, like to be fair, who haven't they cought it
up against in the midst of a collapse at some point?

Speaker 3 (20:08):
But like they're gonna start Sproute on Friday against Sandy Alcontra. Saturday,
I guess is gonna be some combination of Holmes and
Manaia again. And they have not committed to starting Peterson
on Sunday, which they probably shouldn't. That might be Brandon
doubt might be a bullpen game, Like I don't, I
don't know, is.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
It good to do a bullpen game heading into the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
It might be better than starting David. I don't know.
Like they're still like seventy percent favorites, which is to
make the playoffs. Which is probably broadly correct.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's just the one game advantage basically.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Basically, yeah, and like they played the Marlins, the the
Padres will probably still be playing for something as the
Diamondbacks and Pacoder doesn't know that the Brewers are going
to be resting guys and setting their rotation. But you
look at the Rids, the Friends have gotten swept by
the Athletics. It might get swept by the Pirates in
between sleeping the Cubs for like, it's these are not

(21:07):
well and well.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
But then you also look at like the Cubs have
been in an absolute tail spin and address the Mets.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
So I don't I think there's a lot of.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
What happens when teams that aren't that good place yeah,
and is not supposed to be meaning here, m we
weren't supposed.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
To do it.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Like I should not be paying attention to a reds
Pirates game on September twenty fourth.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
To be fair, it was schemes against screen.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
I shouldn't have to have any I shouldn't have to care,
like I shouldn't have to be invested in it. I
feel able to watch it and enjoy two of the
best starting pitchers in baseball just shoving right against not
particularly good lineups. But I just there's like there's become

(21:58):
this like it's partially cope, but I understand it where
it's like it would be very Mets to like barely
get in and then win the World Series. Sure, like
maybe that happens, but they also might just I mean the.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
World Series right after the Cardinals have done it the Twins.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
The Rangers basically almost fell out right the last week
of the season. They were the year they won, right,
did they win the division?

Speaker 1 (22:24):
But it was like no, they were wild card.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
They were wild card because they lost the final.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Game, the final game that lost the and they almost
fell out right. It was everyone.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, right, But it's like they may just go into
a series with the Dodgers and get dog locked right
in two games against like they can't they can't hit
lefties for starters, Like they really cannot hit lefties.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Well, the Dodgers only half left right.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
So that's it. And are they capable of any tame
cable of winning two three against anybody else?

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Right?

Speaker 3 (22:54):
You know the Mets in something like if the Mets
make it, they will be better set up than they
were last year because they don't have to fly cross
country after playing a double.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Header, right, Yeah, it's hard to be worse set up.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Than last year, Like they will have Nolan mclaim.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
You might have to fly across country after throwing a
bullpen game.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yes, they have a day off at least, yeah, right right,
it won't be like there's either way, right, because it'll
be the Dodgers of the padres if they have the
six aides out. Either way, it'll be there across country flight.
But yeah, it's just absolutely miserable to watch. But it's
also like you can't look away because they're incredibly high
leverage games. Yeah, so it's like that.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Jeff Is especially is really tuning in because then he
watches the Dodgers on the West Coast and it's it
is also.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Because again I have to follow it on game day,
Like I'm not going to go to the trouble of
setting up a VPN to watch this. It's oh, I'm
blacked out from Phoenix is teven hours away, and I'm
blacked up from Dinadbax games. But yeah, go ahead, Patrick, Well.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
I'm just going to say, you know, it's bad baseball.
It also could be the last baseball you get, right,
But you guys are both wrong. I think clearly the
last NM wild card will go to the Miami Marlins,
who all they need to do is beat Philly and
then sweep the Mets. Yes, get a little help from
like three other teams, but I just think it's hilarious

(24:22):
that the Marlins. Right now, there are four teams I
believe with better records than the Marlins who are eliminated.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
The car the Cardinals still technically they.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Are Cardinals are technically they are so they are three
and a half and the Giants are three and a half.
But the Giants have been.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Giants are eliminated because the tiebreak. Cardinals are not, and
the Marlins could theory because they're all they're all tied
in the lost column.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Right if the Marlins sweep the met they have the tiebreaker.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yes, with their negative ninety one un different.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Okaye, the last on our rundown. Well, either of us
pick our team to win a wild card series against
the other, I won't, I will, Yeah, I'll win, I'll pick.
I think the Dodgers are one of the better teams,
and they have an atrocious bull been and that can
be ameliorated. Now, look, I will not be surprised if

(25:20):
they lose, they could get swept that none of this
would surprise me. But will I pick them? I think
they're going to be the better team entering this. I
don't know that it matters who they play. Sure, uh
in the wild card round, and they might be the
better team in the divisional series. I don't know. I mean,

(25:44):
like that's that's feasible to me, So sure, I mean,
I'll pick them. But they're not great. You know. This
isn't like prior years or they where I feel like
they should win that kind of All right, let's go
to our second segment. Seattle slew. They slew the Astros

(26:04):
and their run of consecutive AO West Division titles. Patrick
doesn't care.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
No, listen, listen, listen, listen.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Divisions.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Divisions don't exist. The Mariners have never been in division
that didn't have teams that were two throughout twenty three
hundred miles away. Like there's no geographical bond between them.
It's just they're just you know, they didn't even have
the same number of teams some years sometimes it was
just like four teams.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
They're like, doesn't recognize the Astros as an American League
team at this point.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
They haven't always been right and settle. You know, the
Seahawks have switched divisions like it's divisions. They're just arbitrary.
It's just random.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yes, they are arbitrary.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
And they won their arbitrary division. They have the the
third best record in baseball.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, yeah they should do.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
I'm sorry, American League.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Like they're a good team. They're they're very good team.
I just don't care.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
About finding no see but like you are dismissive, you
are downplaying.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
The team has nothing to do with the division. The
team is good. The division is just made up. It's fine.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yes, it's all made up. The league is made up.
That's corct.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
I'm gonna I'm just I'm gonna wait until you're ready
to talk about anything else. I have nothing more to
say on the division tising. We can. We can talk
about other things that I made up too. I talked
to my kid about cryptids all the time. Okay, I
can do this.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, that's fine. I am going to say this about
division of division titles and and I think more largely
the league thing. I want to reiterate because I've said
this before. The league needs to find a way to
make the regular season important unto itself, right, because this

(28:01):
thing where you only care about the bye is part
of the problem to me, and the league has manufactured
that that's not I think the idea that the only
reason we should care about the regular season is how
it ends up impacting the postseason is a travesty to me.

(28:22):
I was talking to a mutual friend of ours. I
can reveal later, but like, this is something that, like
having the best record in the regular season should matter,
and that's not a division win, so you can continue
to dismiss that. But I think winning the regular season

(28:42):
should be important, and I don't have I don't know
what specifically they need to do other than care about
it and find ways to show that they care. They
should honor right, like there should be I love that
the World Series winner gets the gold the gold jersey
lettering and numbers and stuff. I don't know what it
should be, you know, making it silver if it's the

(29:04):
regular season champ seems again like it's behind the World Series.
But like they need to find a way to show
that this matters, that that teams can have some pride
in having the best record from the regular season the
year before. I think that's a huge accomplishment and teams

(29:26):
should care about it. The league should care about it.
And it shouldn't just be a jersey patch. They do
too many freaking patches or like a hat patch, but
like find a way to have it on the jersey.
Sell those jerseys. You will sell jerseys that have a
special thing, as you do for the World Series, right
or for the World Series winner. You will sell jerseys

(29:48):
of people who are happy their team had the best
regular season record in that season.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Okay, that's fine. Like the Milwaukee Brewers should celebrate they
won ninety six games. They'll probably win ninety nine like that.
To me, that's great. Like the Mariners will.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Well to the league. I'm not that mustn't to you.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Going back the division, like the Yankees and Blue Jays
will both win more games than the Mariners. One of
those teams will not win its division because where it
happens to be placed, it doesn't. That's baseball suasan Yeah,
I know. Also they might not.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Win more games than the Mariners. The Mariners could easily
win more games than anyone else in the AL. It's
very possible they are one game backed Patrick.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
They lose the tie record.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Of both of them, kind that doesn't exist.

Speaker 5 (30:37):
Speaking of arbitrary, Yeah, cal Rawley, it is sixth, fifteen, fifty, ninth,
and sixtieth home rounds right, yes, for.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Sixty runs, speaking of things to celebrate, speaking of arbitrary, sixties, arbitrary,
it's just a round number. Patrick, sure is it's not
the record?

Speaker 3 (30:58):
You might get the record.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, Yeah, he's still had a chance. I mean, you know,
it's got one more game against the Rockies, so that's yeah,
you know, at least one there feels like yeah, no,
it's great. The second home run, the first home run,
like is still traveling. It feels like that that ball
was hit, like when the home run derby, When the
home run derby happened in Seattle, and I was there.

(31:20):
I was sitting in the auxiliary press box, which is
the hit It Here Cafe, and I was working during
the warm ups to the home run derby and Ali
Rushman hit me in the arm with a home run
because I wasn't looking, because I just did not think
it was going to be possible for anyone to hit
a home run that far up, like that's above the
second deck. That was a long ways that was in

(31:42):
practice for a practice game and cal rawly hit it
like another deck higher in a real game. It was incredible,
But the second home run honestly might have been more
impressive to me because he like basically barrel the pitch
under the zone like it was difficult pitch to hit.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
It was an absolute missile, like he he annihilated the
first one with an amount of lift I can't even fathom.
The second one was just a missile, like a laser.
It's it's absolutely.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
It felt like Davis sex machina. It really felt like
like like the the the divine intervention stepped in to
be like, no this, We're just gonna fudge the numbers
and make this home run depending regardless of what happened
to the actual swing, which.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Brings us to awards discourse it does, which is raging
this morning.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Sure is.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
A m VP is like the only arguably interesting one
unless you are a Heraldo permo head.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Or an n Rookie of the Year fan.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
I guess, yeah, but that's but that's even again, that's
like the NL wildcard, like the six wild card spot.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
It's like who which two point eight.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
As opposed to who's taking it? The al MVP award
has two guys who are taking it. Yeah, only well,
I mean there can be co m vps if the
votes shake out that way, but only arguably only one
can win it. Sure, I kind of want to. I
saw this. I was gonna say, we should just do
a whole topic of of like who who do you

(33:26):
think should win? And why? Like, let's you know, we
we are all, but we're all able to present an argument.
We're all able to. I would say, I would preface it.
I would preface mine with I don't care.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
I was gonna say, I have to care to like
care so what we can't like I.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Can dig in. I can say, Look, I think I
think Aaron Judge should win. I do That's I I think.
I I don't know that. It's it's hard to say, like,
I don't know that it's that close to me, Like,
I don't. I'm not particularly swayed by the fact by
anything about Raleigh being you know, the case for Raley

(34:07):
being an MVP hasn't been presented yet necessarily, but like
what I've seen thus far, other than he's having a
tremendous season, I have no problem with him winning. I
think he is a vale like this is an MVP
quality season. In most seasons, I think Aaron Judge is
a fucking freak show. Now. I guess I think cal

(34:27):
Raley is this year too, But I think Aaron Judge
is a little bit more. I think every every war
that you look at, including the ones that include catcher framing,
has has judged ahead. Still, I don't think war is
all that matters, but I don't think the thing look
Sixty home runs from a catcher is freakish. Sure, I

(34:49):
think that stands on its own. It's a freak thing
that he accomplished on his own as a catcher. Sixty
home runs. That doesn't play into the MVP race for
me other than it's sixty home runs and he he's really.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Good, right, And he had five hundred other at bats
or whatever plate appearances this season, which we can also
measure offensively right on balance and right. What it comes
down to like, he has nine more home runs in Judge.
That's both a lot and not necessarily.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Judge might have that if he didn't miss time.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Right, But he did and he did.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
And that matters too.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, and Judges like almost two hundred points of ops
higher than rally at this point, and again, Rally is
a catcher. He is a pretty good defensive catcher. He
has DHD a lot this season, thirty five games, yeah,
which again they all count, right, but it does, you know,
if we really want to litigate this, it does affect

(35:47):
the replacement level and the positional adjustment. And like, when
you do this, you are going to hit a lot
of medium deep fly balls and not hit as high
a batting average as Judge does, which solid other numbers like,
it's not like that. Those are all things that happened.

(36:08):
And like Judges the perfectly fine outfielder when he can
actually throw, and I don't does Rally being a catcher
and being a pretty good one. Yeah, So way, well
bridge the huge offensive gap between because Judge is having
a much much better offensive season overall.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
If you look at baseball perspectus, winds above replacement, which
does factoring tatripraming, but also what deserve runs created is
not necessarily what you want to use. It can be,
but it might not be what you want to use
in this type of discussion. Aaron Judge has a two
o seven DRC plus yeah, which is actually higher than

(36:49):
his WRC plus for example, so usually not the case.
Cal Raley has a one to forty seven, So that's
he's forty seven percent better than the league average. A
catcher and a good defensive catcher. He has twelve d
r p H. That's quite good. Aaron Judge has minus
two point eight d r p that's pretty bad. Yeah,

(37:13):
Aaron Judge has nine point seven WARP and cal Rally
has seven point five. That's a big gap. I would
say anything within a win is marginal. Sometimes within two
wins that's over. That's over two wins, barely but over.
So again, when I say like it is both, I
have no If cal Rally wins, I won't be mad

(37:34):
in the slightest doesn't doesn't bother me at all. Cal
Rally is having an incredible season. I think Aaron Judge's
season is better. Yeah, and I and I don't. And
I also should preference this by saying, some of this
depends on what you think the MVP award is. I
think it's for the best player in baseball. Sure, that's
what I think.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
You can't even use the you can't use the most.
Either of these teams would be where they are without.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
The Neither team makes the playoffs with their players. Yeah,
my main stance on this, I agree that I think
that judges better. I'm DRC like Judge does more of
the things that DRC likes.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, right, No, you don't have to use that, yeah
at all.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
And I but the problem is you can't use reference
for because in the year of Earl Er twenty twenty five,
reference war doesn't agree with the well, but you can.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Take the defensive difference and use the offensive for you know,
like whatever.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
What about I'll say is that like using f war,
which has its own issues. Over the past ten years,
there have been eleven to nine more seasons between both leagues,
and two of them are this year, and two of
them are in the same league. And this is just
one of those years where most years RALLY would win.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Years.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Literally this happened literally last year with Bob.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
And it sucks. It's not even far off this year, right,
like what's clearly the third and the American League and
we'll and we'll barely get a passing mention. But like,
you know, like part of the problem with this, I
think the angst over this is not so much that
one needs to be better than the other. It's that
it's kind of a you know, like a minor shame
that they're not going to both win, sure, because ordinarily

(39:15):
they would win. If one we're in a different league
or when we're in a different year, rally would win.
And yeah, that's what happens, right, because like divisions, it's
all arbitrary.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Right, yeah it is. Look, I mean this is sequence
bad sequencing for one of these guys, yes, right, like
it it is too bad and it is a shame.
But the real shame is worrying about this kind of
thing instead of just appreciating how good they both are, right,
And that's that's the reality. Again, I think one is

(39:46):
having a marginally but not insignificant marginal margin better season
than the other. They're both as to Patrick's point nine
nine win season and f four like that's insanely good.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
I think there's something to the idea that we've like
clearly identified that you bet, like thirty years ago, like
Caleb Durban would be getting votes right like we're we're
pretty good at like we're not you know, going to
like Jose Ramirez or whatever.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, Kyle would be and honestly, like Kyle is, uh yeah,
it's I just I I can get worked up about this, right,
But like if I want to get within the subject,
I can get into it and whatever. But I don't care.
It doesn't like I can focus on these differences, but

(40:37):
I think focusing on the differences is missing the forest
for the trees, and it's the definition.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Of that to me, is like the thing that it's
better than not being talked about is being talked about.
Like the real loser here is probably wit because you know,
by arguing about this, this is this, this is how
we done. Baseball fans do appreciate things. Yeah, right, this
is their process. It's not a good process, it's not
a healthy process, but it is a process. Whereas Bobby
Witt won't. He'll be the one that's actually forgotten, so whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Like divisions are also a process, Patrick, Yeah, they are, and.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
We can and we could certainly debate them in discourse
and then they honestly like I don't. Everybody has their
their uh silanter jeans, right, I don't care. I don't
mind discourse, Like in general, I don't mind discourse as
much as the people, mostly because I have the ability
to stop, Like I could turn it off whenever I

(41:32):
want to, and like a lot of people. I think
people get sick of this, and I go, when I
get sick of that, I the exact moment I get
sick of a discourse, I just stop reading it. And
then I don't feel bad. But like like this, this
isn't this is fine, this is what we do. Like
there's no games playing right now, let's talk about baseball.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
It's like, I don't I don't mind the debate about this,
and and frankly, like I would, I'm I'm a little
bit in search of a more compelling cal Rally argument.
I guess I agree with yours, right, But I guess

(42:10):
what I'm I'm interested in is like because I don't
I think the thing the things that are being brought
to the table, and I think this a lot from
I saw someone post the savant Slider pages from both
of these guys and was like, if you think, like
if cal Rally wins, it just shows that you're tired

(42:31):
of Aaron Judge and like that's not an argument, Like
the savant Sliders aren't anything in this, Like they matter
in terms of process, but that's not to some degree,
but like that's not the that's not anything either, right,
And like I think the reason I get annoyed about
discourse is it's generally really antagonistic and dismissive, and no

(42:57):
one's interested in like a good faith discussion. I legitimately
am interested. Like I think I could be swathed to aside.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
I just haven't been part of the howbu Jake's fans
are crashing out over the idea that maybe Aaron Judge
won't win.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, and again, like, I think some of the antagonism
is deserved. I think all the people who these are
all the same people who are like absolutely the only
thing that matters is the ALM run record, and now
it's like, how fucking dare you? And it's you know, again,
that kind of antagonism, to me is deserved. But that's
also having a bit of fun, right, Like that's that's

(43:37):
just having been a fun and like pointing out the hypocrisy,
and that's fine. I I do just think like the
accomplishment as a catcher is remarkable. What he means to
Seattle is absolutely massive. I don't think that changes the argument, though.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
I think I think the most compelling argument you can
make for Rollie, which is one that people don't haven't
really been making, is the one Righty's great rolling, you
have that plus twelve defense, right, But he's not Patrick Bailey.
He isn't. And part of that is because his offense
is so good that it's hard to talk about a
great offensive player and how great he is the defense

(44:14):
at the same time. One naturally overshadows the other. But
what are you gonna say about count Rawley's defense? How
could you possibly describe it? Like it's hard enough to describe.
With Bailey, it's literally the only thing he does.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah, yeah, And I think you could also argue that,
like the margins that we measure for defense, it could
like we might be under rating him, honestly, And then
I think that.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Make the case. I think calling you should be going
into his leadership. But these are things that they don't like,
nobody really does, because how do you talk about them?

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah? Yeah, No, I think I think that's right. That is,
to me, that is thus far the most compelling thing.
And again I don't think it all has to be
the numbers either, Right, I think these are close enough
you can get into some of the other stuff, but
you actually have to get into it. You can't just
handwave it, and you can it just say, you know,
I mean, like, look, Aaron Judges is also a leader.
They made him the freaking captain, which apparently matters in

(45:07):
sure the word right, Like, I don't know exactly, but
let's get into those things and actually present them in
a good faith way, not in a dismissive way. And
I'm happy to listen, and I'm happy to have that discourse.
That's just not the discourse we.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Have, right And if you're gonna do that, you've got
to give him, You've got to demerit him whatever. Alex
Ridu goz and they get it. For war was last year?

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Absolutely good point, all right? Were I assume we're done
with that. Do you want to take a break or
go one more segment here?

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Yeah? It was pretty long. Let's take a break, all right,
we'll be.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Back with the least this year. Welcome back to episode

(46:07):
four hundred and ninety four of five and five. We're
on our third segment. Collapse. Don't do it. I got
that one, Jeff. I don't wouldn't say I executed it well,
but I.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Got no gotta be more momentum.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
We already yeah, well, fair enough, we've already talked about
some scenes collapsing, but there are others. The Jays, who
seemed like they were just going to keep keep on
keeping on with a three to four game division lead,
suddenly find themselves tied for the division, which Patrick doesn't

(46:43):
care about, but they might fall out of a bye,
which which Patrick does care about. They are tied with
the Yankees at ninety wins as.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
They are starting leave Arland today.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Whoa had not seen that?

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Ye?

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (47:02):
What was more starters? Right?

Speaker 1 (47:05):
They? Oh? I did? I did want to. They reorganized,
We talked about their rotation and what their playoff rotation
might be. They rejiggered their rotation specifically to set up
seemingly Max Sureser for a game one start.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
In the wildcard round if they end up in the
wildcard in.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
The wildcard round, if they end up in the wildcard round,
and Max Chuser's performance in his new new time slot,
I'll call it might have helped them get into the
wildcard spot did not go very well. It didn't at all.
These are some choices you can make.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yeah, I mean anything else on the Blue the Blue Jays.
The Blue Jays do this like we were so we
were so close, Craig. Blue Jays were so close, so.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Close, and they might they might just be giving us
the Blue Jays season. Yep, they lost.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
They're gonna win ninety games like they do when they
give you the Blue Jay season.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yeah, they lost the Gosman start, which they really can't
afford to do.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
The yank. He's playing the White Sox and the Orioles.
The Orioles have been reasonably frisky down the stretch. The
JS get the Rays for the last Aeriens of the
season and do have the tiebreaker so they could pull
out of this.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
But man, yeah, I mean, look, the Shuger start also
came against Crochet, which is always a tall shutter. But
but they lost. Like I said, they lost the Gosman start,
and they lost it late. I mean it's a sixth
inning again. Like he's been their best pitcher, not always

(48:46):
the highest of highs, but just consistently their best pitcher
they got. I mean like Gilito only went four and
two thirds that game. Like they had the opportunity to
dig into the Red Sox bullpen and just could not
do anything. Patrick, you just wrote about the Blue Jays.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
It did Do you have any do you want to
I don't even remember writing about them, like I don't
know they The thing is that all year they have
been the opposite of this, right as soon as I
wrote this, basically, yes, like the idea of the Blue
Jays is the floor, right, They've always they have eight starters,

(49:25):
you know, I'm sure's are you know, I don't know
if he's in one of the top five, but like
they have they have enough parts that you'd think they
would never run out of parts, and yet they are
starting Louis Violant, Like, it's amazing how one week changes everything,
especially when the last week this season. But you know,

(49:47):
the Guardians have seven hitters who are hitting the lights out,
you know, the cover off the ball right now, they
don't have seven good hitters.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
You can't talk to me about the Guardian. It's just no, no,
what's next on the rundown? Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Much.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
This is they're gonna win ninety games because they.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Won well, they they.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Might win games. Yeah, ninety games. They're they're fine, like
every you know, when you get to this last part
of the season, I get.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
They technically have the best record in the American League.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yes they do. They have the tiebreaker over the Yankees,
so they are still in first place.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Look, we have like if we just there's no great
teams to talk about. There's not Like, do you want
to talk about the Marlins they're playing, well.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yeah, phill the Mariners.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Okay, fine, let's go. Let's go to a team that
is also collapsing just running into uh, I don't know this.
This is the uh just running into a wheat thresher
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
George l even Guardians.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yeah, the Tigers cannot beat the Guardians. They lost the
Terrek Schooball start, which you really can't do most mostly
thanks to Terrek scoobl doing a trying to be Mark Burley.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Yeah, and they scored three runs against Scooble without the
ball leaving the.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Infield right again, Well, it almost left the infield because
flung it so far over the first basement's head through
his legs using his glove. No, it was maybe his,
but he had time. Look not Trueblo had wrote about
this like he had time, he had time to turn
and make that throw. But anything, anytime the picture does

(51:39):
anything honestly in the field seems really dicey to me. Uh.
George Valera.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Jeffrey hit his second home run go ahead homer yesterday.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yep, A two run shot. Yeah, I mean the Tigers
just cannot win a game.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Yeah, that's a problem.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
They are. They are absolutely plummeting. They're they've lost eight
in a row.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
Yeah, still on a playoff spot because the have been
just as bad and don't have the tigre for over
the Tigers.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah, well not quite. They've been just as bad, but
also not quite like they are four and six in
their last ten. The Tigers are one and nine.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Yeah, the at least a little bit they have some cushion.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Yeah, but yeah, I mean again, this is one of
those things that this is the Tigers are very much
in Mets mode kind of like they.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
They're finding different ways to lose games they shouldn't.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah, and they're also in a lot of ways in
Dodgers mouth. This is a lot they're often some points
showing up, but the bullpen has just been disastrous, and
there's no they don't and a lot like the Dodgers,
like they don't have a guy. They don't have a
guy you can say, like, here's the guy we trust. Now,

(52:57):
whether it's in the seventh inning of the ninth then
it doesn't matter. I don't know, do I need to
triple down on the Guardians. I don't think they're good.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
This is the piece, This is the piece I'm writing
out for tomorrow. The sad thing like this, I'll spoil
it in the sense that will come out after the article.
But the weird thing about this Guardian's Tigers situation, and
what makes it so different than other enormous comebacks, is
that the Tigers don't matter. I guess they are beating
the Tigers. Yes, they win the division, but the Guardians

(53:31):
are would be in a playoff spot even if the
Tigers had won their last ten other than the Cleveland games, right,
because they'd be in the sixth wild card. And your
beloved playoff system has taken away any of the actual
fun out of this.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
Comeback and out of the Tigers collapse.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Yeah, because the Tigers are because of the Euston astros.
It's it's a shame, right.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
The Mets would have made the playoffs in two thousand
and seven, in two thousand and eight under this system, right, So.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I don't know. Is there anything
to glean from either of these teams playing this this way?

Speaker 3 (54:15):
I don't think so. Like, sometimes you just have a
hot month, like the Tigers did this last year, Like,
it's not the shoes on the other foot now, I
mean this was the.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Twins last year.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Yeah, Well I think if any if you want to
make a judgment statement about the Tigers, I think it
can be a criticism of their deadline strategy because they
just put their hand into the bag and grabbed out
whatever they could get.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Yeah, and some weird DVDs.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yeah, Chris Paddock, and you've got you know, Charlie Morton,
and you've got Raphael Montero.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Also, by the way, Charlie Morton immediately what was it
the Braves again, They're like, we don't even if.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
We're going to pitch him this year. We just wanted
to claim Yeah, I just wanted to say, hi, have
him over. But yeah, like like this team, yes, as
it turns out, could have used maybe in like we
were talking about where where would you possibly upgrade with
the Detroit Tigers, and the answer was there were a
few places they could probably do it. Right. Yeah, you

(55:21):
know the big topic was hobb your bias, right, and
they should have absolutely replaced Hobby Bias. Now, they should
have replaced him with Kevin McGonagall a month ago. As
we've already talked about on the pod.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
The Eerie Seawell season is now where they lost three
of these championship series to the Binghamton Rumble Ponies. So
he is available.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
But if you weren't going to do that, they should
have replaced him with literally anybody else, and they didn't, And.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
The thing is like they can't. I mean, the best
it's sort of like the best day to call it
McGonagall was yesterday. The second best is today. But also
you're at the point now where like you really could
have used the three weeks in the majors, so you're
not like, yeah, gauging engaging a little better what you
have there, and you can do the Alex Carrilla off right,
you can put them on the playoff roster. I don't
really see a scenario where a J. Hinch is starting

(56:06):
Kevin McGonagall over Hobby Bayas in that scenario because he
hasn't seen Kevin McGonagall majorally pitching or not for three weeks.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
But yeah, Hobby Bias in September is batting one eleven,
one thirty eight, one fifteen, which is not as bad
as Trace Winnie's eighty three eighty three three. Yeah, I
mean disasters.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
On the one hand, I think calling up McGonagall would
be like a panic move. At this point they should be.
I think it is also like Baily the correct decision,
panic Rock City. Some sometimes you have to show urgency

(56:50):
and it's you know, again, this is very there's a
lot of Dodgers to this, which I wrote. I obviously
I wrote a whole article based on what we talked about,
and it's about the Dodgers and like their their unwillingness
show urgency to care about the regular season at all,
and like they did just now in the last four
games for sorry, five games of the season, activate Roki Sasaki,

(57:12):
who has been a train wreck all year, and shove
him into a leverage spot in a game that they
needed as a reliever, which he's done all of like
three times in his life. Right, Like, there is some
desperation to that, right, which is good. They you know
you should be at this point. It is crunch time.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Uh yeah. But they are getting bailed out by the
Houston Astros. And I think the same accusation can be
made of the Astros as the Tigers. It's not quite
as extreme because it isn't as focused on a single
position and player. But like Jesus Sanchez one four eight,
Ramon Riyas one fifteen eleven, two thirty one, like these

(57:56):
half measures that both these teams did are killing them.
Like they did they didn't get another starter, and all
those fourth starters that they thought that they were going
to get away with just fell apart. Cool.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, I think they also thought like, oh, well, got
Louis at some point, but like you also have to
conceive the possibility he's just gonna get hurt again, right,
like this is.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah, yeah, but you you you got caught with Jason
Alexander starting games in September, and regardless of why that happened,
you got to be a little embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
It doesn't matter which one either, Yeah, it might not
matter at this point. I I so, is there anything
to take away from Cleveland? Am I wrong? Am I
wrong about Cleveland?

Speaker 3 (58:38):
I mean, look, you can't say they ultimately like, you
can't say they haven't earned it. They've won the games, right,
they won the games. That's called up Parker Massik. He's
been quite good.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Yeah. I'm not saying they haven't earned it. I'm saying
they're bad.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
My opinion is that Steven Vote should be ale Manager
of the Year. That's that's mostly because I don't I
don't care who Yeah, and you know, and he's you know,
trying to extract value and platuning. Like also I don't
care who else wins it.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
So it's very easy.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Are you gonna be mad if Dan Wilson gets robbed
of Manager of the Year? Like who you know, Aaron Booney?
But like other than Dan Wilson, he's found the magic,
he's got the juice. No, like you know, other than that, No,
this is just you know, the Cleveland's having that month,
Like will they have two months? I probably not?

Speaker 3 (59:34):
Probably not.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
It's not how months work. They don't usually go that long.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah, can can they have a sixty day September?

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah? Which is essentially like again spoiling my article tomorrow.
This is what the playoffs do now, like the expended
is of the playoffs are so extended that the Pennant
run gets eaten by the playoffs. The Guardians basically just
need to do this twice. They had a thirty day
run and they're just gonna have to have another third
dayDay run. And you can't enjoy the first three day
run because you know there's another one coming, right, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Right, ask Milwaukee. It's like that. And again, not that
Milwaukee is bad, but like take their most recent stretch
to their that great stretch and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
It's you know, all I'm saying is that it turns
out fall baseball is now just basically like one of
the Hobbit movies, and you're just like, I could watch this,
but there's just gonna be another one. It's probably gonna
be about the same.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
It was about the same. Yeah, generally, how I feel
that that? Yeah, I don't know, I just I can't.
I would love if George Valeria is good, right, like
he's got an eight hundred ops and that would be great.
But like these lineups, man, I don't know, Like if

(01:00:46):
bow Naylor is killing you offensively, then like you just
gotta like eat that at something, right, Like what can
you do? What can you do if you're getting beat
by bow nailor Gabriel Aris and and dan El Schniman.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
To me, when it comes dowf with the Guardians, I'm
more impressed by the pitching right, Like this field the
hitting is just random. The pitching feels more designed, more
like the culmination of some good work. I know I
can buy that Joey Cantilla was actually just a good pitcher.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Now, sure, he's always been interesting, and he came up
and was just last year and was just wild, could
not throw a strike, and and that was kind of
the lasting impression of him from last year. Yeah, he's
been very good. Jeff mentioned Parker Massic. I also I was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I was speaking with Logan Ellen. I won't go there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
No, I will not go there. But speaking of dismissive,
I was dismissive about Slade Chaconi or a couple of
pods ago, I think. And and he's not had the
greatest season. He has been very good. Yeah, outside of
the seven run, seven run performance against Boston to open
the month, his last three starts have been tremendous. H

(01:01:55):
He has faced the Royals, White Sox and Twins in
those starts. But but they've been good and he's been good,
so you know they are getting some good performances. I
I do wonder how the pitching looks against teams that
can hit, which is which the Tigers are not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Right now, I will just say on George hilaira ninety
one one eleven on the exit so far, twenty four
percent chase right, which would expect good chase. Absolutely, yeah,
eighty percent zone contact, which isn't great, but in zone
swing percentage fifty seven and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Okay, well, maybe throw him more strikes. I guess I
don't know that is yeah, no, all of those, aside
from the passivity.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Is the most fixable thing, right, Like, it's a lot of.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Zone he's always has always.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
All right, let's go to our fourth segment. We'll go
around the horn. We could have I'm a little made
this segment, but but I guess you don't want to
go along on this. I wrote a small piece on this,
but the automated strike zone is here in part well,
or will be here in part in twenty twenty six.

(01:03:13):
The replay system that we've talked about, the challenge system
is going to be here. My view is that this
is a you know, Jeff mentioned half measures and that
they or sorry, Patrick mentioned half measures earlier and that
they don't really work. I think this is one that
might work, and I realize I sound like Tobias few
Ke on that, right, it might just work for us.

(01:03:35):
I think this is a good compromise that leaves people
on either end unhappy but is going to be pretty functional.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Yeah, I mean it works, It works fine, I guess. Philosophically,
the idea is that you know it's a challenge system,
but you know, challengeable pitches or like the pitch. Obviously
there's some game theory, but it could be like a
one to zero strike that's out of the zone that
you don't really want to challenge. It also changes in

(01:04:04):
a bat, right, you don't know what's necessarily going to
be nigh leverage pitches. And if you believe this should
be the strike zone, just make it the strike zone.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Like I think, what I one of my only real
take about yes, is that what we need for this
situation is a loading screen. What you need because the
calls are faster than actual replay calls, Right, it's like
ten seconds that it's ten it's under fifteen seconds. Those

(01:04:34):
what you need is you need that fifteen seconds to
feel like it is a fifteen second process instead of
just sitting around for fifteen And I think that's why
it's better than regular replay. At least, like the regular replay,
you're watching your you know, at least when you're watching
on TV, you get to watch the eighteen views, which
the first view is better.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Than they'll still feels a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
It still feels like a long time. Well you should,
you should. I'm glad they put on the screen. I
think should actually make the pitch come out and come
towards the zone like tantalizingly so that you can like
always it gonna make it, is gonna make it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
But they do it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
It's too fast.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
It's not that fast.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Fill the ten seconds. We're gonna take the ten seconds anyway,
Make that pitch take ten seconds to get to the
zone and then everybody like we get the answer.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
Everybody good years and yeah that's what happens.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Yeah, but that is basically it is the tennis. If
you've watched tennis at all, and like now they don't
even do challenges. They just do it depends on which tournament,
but many of them are just fully automated, but they
will still show close calls. And it is the same thing.
It is a reconstruction, right, it is an animated reconstruction

(01:05:43):
of the flight path. And yeah, I agree there there
are philosophical issues with this. I also think it's like
still the best end result because I think if you
use this zone all the time. I'm there are going
to be issues with it, and yes, again there there

(01:06:05):
is a there are there's an issue with having an
umpire call zone all game and then using a different zone.
Right well, I mean some of this too on the replace.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Also, if you have an umpire that just like just
doesn't call it a high strike, right like, that's just
what their zone is. When they repeatedly get challenged on
it and it's put on screen that they will adjust,
the umpires will also.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Yes, and then and again they have been adjusting over time, right,
I will say when.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
I when I saw it in the A f L
or when I've seen it so like the dumpires are
pretty good. But like even though the ones they miss,
they tend not to miss by a ton, right like
it's like half an inch or something like you they
can tell with the naked eye. Look, there are gonna
be I think you're gonna see it on like steals

(01:06:55):
and things like that with a pet kitchen or bad
frames like the ben wurkfit.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Right, he dropped the ball and was also I would
point out though that umpire missed a Ryan Nelson fastball,
a fastball that was I didn't check it on game day,
but it might have been the middle box like he
was middle middle right, and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
You're going to see I like box pitches or don't
frame it well or have to reach across their body,
and like umpires are going to start to adjust to
it because they don't want to be embarrassed on the
big screen when it's three inches inside.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Again, that's good feedback.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Yep, that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Again, I think that's good. And look, I know, yeah,
I mentioned Joshianna fair amount on this podcast, and I
know his feelings on this are it is it is
a half measure derogatory, right that it is you if
you can get the calls right all the time, you
should And I you know, I went back and I
found a post of mine from like twenty eighteen that

(01:07:52):
was like, I've made a radical change from getting calls
right all the time to making calls everyone agrees on.
And that's actually that's just where im I think it
because I'll be honest, the instrumentation of this, like we
don't it also messes up it also if it says
it catches the zone by the smallest margin possible. And

(01:08:13):
again they do this in tennis, right, they do that
zoom in where it's like, oh, you can see us
the smallest sliver of the line touching the shadow of
the ball that we projected. Again, this is like, maybe
that's what happened, and maybe it's not. It might get
some of those wrong. The point is, as long as
everyone says that's the call, we can move on. And

(01:08:36):
I think there are benefits to letting umpires manage the
pace and flow of the game in situations where it's
not important. So maybe the two challenges per team and
you do get to keep it if you win are
are not enough. I don't know, but I think there's
a blow management of this that is present in baseball

(01:08:59):
that isn't in tennis that if we had to do
this all the time in the automated zone, it would
I think. I think it could really be a slog
in certain aspects. So I don't know. I also I
bypassed all the all the actual I just mentioned the
two per team. If you do win a challenge, you

(01:09:20):
get to keep it. If you get to extra innings,
you get another one. If you're out, is my understanding.
I don't know if there's anything else we need to
address on them.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Yeah, I think like, I don't love gamifying this or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
No, I don't either. I I don't either.

Speaker 5 (01:09:37):
This.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
This is always my issue is that if, if, if
it's crucial enough, and it's you would.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
Also be very funny to see some Rockies like you
talk about speeding up the game. The Rockies just like
keep challenging down ten nothing when they try to expand
the zone and getting it right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Well, I do think that there are times when it
should be cut off, Like once WPA reaches zero, you
just turn off the cameras.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
We'll just forfeit at that point. We just just make
the entertaining product the entertaining product. We now have a
position play.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Yes, yeah, good, thank you for bringing up another thing
I hate.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
Ye. Okay, that's a BS. We'll go to the Washington
Nationals who made a decision in their front office. They
are hiring Paul to Bony.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Yes, thirty five year old Red Sox draft guy. We'll
see how it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Yeah, but they hired a good guy. We'll see if
they let him do a good job.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
Yeah, I mean take a step up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
Yeah, this is very typically like he's described as a
rising star.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
YEA article this week about how the Nationals are a
complete mass organizationally yep.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Yeah, all their presidents have have quite or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
He thinks that they will president Sorry, Patrick, go ahead,
It's okay. Just that he clearly thinks that that he
can continue to rise with him and we'll see if
they let him. Yeah, but you know, do I have
a lot of faith.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
I also like there's just we don't know, Like I
think we should just be honest with these about these things,
like whether it's the person or the or the person
in the in the situation, we don't know. H We'll see,
we'll talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
When there's never been a GM hired in this situation
that it's not described as a rising star who is
like director.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Well, unless it's Josh Burns.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
I don't think there's I don't think there's any reason
for Nationals. They shouldn't be more depressed than yesterday, Like
this isn't this isn't bad. No, no, not as good
as it hopes. I think why not be positive?

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Like who knows? It seemed? You know, we'll see elsewhere.
Paul Stines finishes the year the one nine seven e
RA A and one hundred and eighty one and two
thirds innings pitched.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
The Pirates, Sure, sure had a year they did.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
I've already I've already told the people in the Fray
you can discord if they sweep the Reds, I will
get at JACKSA. Winski jersey.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
So did he have anything to do with it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Yeah, double one extras.

Speaker 5 (01:12:26):
Oh there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
It wasn't the winning one anything but data.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Yeah. Uh, there are worse teams than the Pirates. Is
there a costlier failure of a season than the Pirates?

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
It's it's just finish. I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
It's just so hard for me to answer that because
we knew this going in. Yeah, we talked about in
March yep that they wasted a season of Paul Skenes and.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Here they've they it makes it worse like, yes, Baltimore
had a bad year and we didn't expect it, but
like it's worse that we did expect this and it
is absolutely the paper bag with the dub body of it,
like right, mm hmm, And are we already expecting the
next one? Like? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Should we? Just more people were talking about even though
that's insane.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Yeah, Like their big move was acquiring Spencer Horowitz because
had a one o nine oh ps plus and half
a season as the first basement.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Maybe he'll get to be Kyle moarn Zardo someday.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
Maybe they also like don't have anything coming from their
system now at this point, and Connor Griffin might there
at some point next year. But guess what they're gonna
waste Conder Griffin too.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Also, he's like five years older than Kyle Manzarta. Yeah,
so he will never actually get to be you know
what I mean? Uh yeah, I don't know. I don't
know what to say. I mean, this is your side
young winner. Ye his one nine seven e RA uh
zero one higher than last year. So he will not

(01:14:11):
achieve the Clayton Now, he set the by the bar
too high. Clayton Kershaw had had the fun set that
he lowered his career e RA each of his first
seven seasons. Paul Skins can't say that, he can say
it's significantly better. Uh yeah, I mean this is the
things that he did. I also because it's the pirates,

(01:14:34):
like we talked about it some. But like the things
that he did throughout the year were bananas. He would
just not throw his best pitch in a start and
absolutely dominated. He he seemed to be operating on a

(01:14:55):
level of boredom almost in some of these starts, and
I but I don't know that it was boredom, but
it was just like I wonder if I can challenge
myself to do better like to you know, And in
the minors they do this all the time, right, like
we we want you to throw your worst pitch so
it gets better. And he's like, well, I'm just gonna

(01:15:16):
do that here in the majors because because also like
wins don't matter to him in this season, just like
they don't matter in the minors. This was a developmental
season for Paul Skins, and he's gonna win the cy
Young and he should.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Also got to say he's grown a full beard now
and it's a much better for him. Good to know,
and you know, well, it's funny we don't even talk
about it. He's gonna win the cy Young, uh with
a ten and ten record, and it's just not even
yeah consideration good for.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Good for saber metrics. Yep, we want, we want at
what cost, but we want again, it's one hundred eighty
one innings.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
So yeah, sure, one hundred eighty seven. You got to
include the sixty three yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Oh, I'm sorry, okay, one hundred eighty Uh the Mets Jeffrey,
I'm very sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
Yeah, I mean he was fairly yeah and like dropped
shoe balls. He should have called in like the thirty
five games he played. Yeah, he posted he posted a
Joker meme and an ai Joker meme on Instagram after
this news came down. So he still hose a siri. Okay, yeah,
what was the It was just I don't know, It's

(01:16:38):
just a picture of the Joker on the beach. This
is like, okay, was a tough game or something like?

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Okay, sure.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
The Blue Jays released Alex Manoa. Yeah, I don't know the.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Anthony Santander's back because they need something. He shot in
the arm Mania was walking five for nine in Triple A.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
I mean, hopefully change the scenery or something. But it
seems like it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
I don't think they wanted to do it, but they
just ran out of space and ran out of time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
The Padres lost Ramon Loriano. He will be out at
least through the wild because it's a finger injury, right Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Yeah, broken Pinky hal interactions Pinky.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Honestly, pretty big loss. He's been. I guess I hadn't
seen recently, but I know he performed quite well after
the trade deadline. They don't have depth behind.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
The period, but especially in the outfield.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Yeah, you know I say that. I also like just
watching the Diamondbacks. I truly, how are they doing? Like
they are starting for Hey Barossa, Yeah and every day. Yeah,
I know, Jake McCarthy.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
I mean, their pitching has come around a lot, and
they're like no name bullpen just seems to.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
Yeah, I don't know who these guys are they. Someone
said Abner is out to pitch, and I was like, Abner,
he's not on the Dodgers lose Kirby Yates for the
wildcard round. He went on the aisle with a hamstring injury.
I don't know if he's got that injury. He's just
not I mean, he's like thirty eight thirty nine. He

(01:18:20):
can I'm sure there's something. I'm sure there's something wrong,
but he he was ayled to make room for Rokie
Sasaki and he can't be He won't be around for
the wild Card if if if healthy, I don't know
that it matters. Luke Kishaw is getting thumb surgery. He
slid into the This is he he wears one of

(01:18:41):
those oven mits, but only on one hand, I believe,
And this is the other hand. Uh, he's slid into
a base, injured his thumb and require surgery. This man
is just gonna rack up bizarre injuries his entire.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
Why can't they make the entire uniform out above? Admit
it's a great question.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Which takes us to work.

Speaker 5 (01:19:01):
Game.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Let's take the game we're doing twenty grid. I posted
the thing earlier during the break. What I will say
to you is that, just as a baseline, I got
five of these nine? Correct? And or did I get six?
I got six? I should have No, I got five
and I should have gotten six. Okay, So Craig, you're

(01:19:23):
gonna go first, And the only reason I remember is
that you complained about going second last time, so we're
gonna start. Yeah, well, no, you complained that I talked
about the score between after you know, don't last game
last last game. I'm not God, I don't remember what
we did. Who went first on the twenty grad like
a month ago? Yeah, well, I was gonna Royals and Dodgers.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
That's a weird. That's a weird. One off the top.
It's it's I wish I could guess the least. Yeah,
because like Danny Duffy went to the to the Dodgers
and just never pitched for them. But they but they
made a trade.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Yeah, or hand of that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Boy, Royals, you know what? Uh Dogs, I think this
is not gonna win. I'm gonna tell you that right now.
I don't remember who, but in the interest of expediency,
I'm gonna say.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
On Helberrow Okay, Uh, Royals and Angels. Boy, that's there's
no way on Helboro played for the Dodgers.

Speaker 5 (01:20:28):
Did he?

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
I'm pretty sure did he? Really? Did he not? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
He sure did good ones.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
No, no, of course not.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Many of his games were good.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
I had a nice rookie Angels and on the season Angels,
Angels and Royal.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
That's so weird. This is this is the second hardest
spot in the grid, A couple of couple of hard
spots today. I got this one right, But.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Royal, boy, this is Uh. I'm struggling here. I can
I pass and maybe get back. I don't know Royal's
first round draft pick, so I mean, obviously there's a
lot of historical stuff here. I just think it's gonna

(01:21:16):
be Bobby Witt.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
Like this, top of mind, Dodgers raise.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
Obviously Ben word. But as soon as I saw this,
I was like, I'm not saying that. Doctors, Blake Snell, Blake.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
Snow, that's a good one. Angels and Rays, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
A weirder one to me.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Yeah, yeah, very much. So oh yeah, forty boy Yeah.
Not many people got this one right. I think. I
think the other fifty three percent all picked Joe Boyle
because they forgot Joe Boyle is an athletic and non
an angel.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
Boy Angels, Angels and Rays, that's that is. I am
struggling with that too. No boy, uh no, I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Have to pass Ray's first round draft pick.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Who would be the top Ray's first round draft pick?
Evan Longoria? No, David Price, Evan Longoria, David Price, I'm
gonna call a Longoria.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Okay, Dodgers and White Sox.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Obviously, Miguel Vargas, No, I Dodgs and white Socks. Sure,
I'm wondering what would be the uh oh, Eddie Murray,
Anie Murray played with did you play with the White Sox?
I know it was the Orioles all the time, but
I thought he went to the White Sox. Sure, why not,

(01:23:06):
Let's let's be embarrassed Angels, white socks, Tim Anderson and
first round draft picked White Sox. So you kind of
want to say Tim Anderson again, don't you can I repeat?

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
Or no, yeah you can.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
I don't know. I know Colson Montgomery has been good,
but I don't think people are going to go there.
Uh you know, you know what I'll do, Chris Sale
for the first round Royals, Royals Angels. This is really
just like not clicking for me. There's got to be
a picture who just like washed up from the Royals,

(01:23:46):
who just washed up with the Angels or something. There
is probably, oh you know.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
What, carlos ss raise Angels.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
I kind of want to say Joe Boyle now that
you said it, I did the choice and Joe Boyle
are the same guy.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
I don't know why, like they're not, but like I
don't know, my brain has just decided they are identical.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
What I what my brain has is doing here is
they really really wants ben Zoebras to have played for
the Angels.

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
And I.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
Yeah, uh.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
God, I will say the answer I chose for this one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Got three, So yeah, I'm sure. Oh you know what,
can I just say I'm Molina?

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Yeah, Jose Molina played for both teams.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
Okay, fine, all right, Jeff, you're gonna win.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
Long it's a hard one. The score you gotta beats too,
h Jeff, go ahead with Kansas City and the.

Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
Dodgers sack cranky, all right, Yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
A better choice than good start Kansas City in the Angels.

Speaker 3 (01:25:01):
I feel like Urban Santana played for both. I'm gonna
say Urban Santana.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
You sure, Kansas City and first round draft.

Speaker 3 (01:25:08):
Pick Bobby whit Junior. I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
Okay, wait a minute, hold on, is Jeff already winning?

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
He's tied?

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
No, I knew he was tied.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
I didn't know if Dodgers and Rays Dodgers like.

Speaker 3 (01:25:24):
I want to say Logan Forsyth so badly, but it's
obviously not Logan Forsyth. David Price, all right, Angels and Rays,
Angels and Rays. Yeah, I looked at this briefly, and
I already forgot that Angels and rays were on It
should like this should be more overlap here, Angels and Rays.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
I will tell you, I really. In addition, I really
wanted dj Opton to have played for the Angels.

Speaker 4 (01:25:59):
No you didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
No, I know he didn't, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
Know they upton should count for each other's team exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
I was like, no, that's justin, that's not it, like.

Speaker 3 (01:26:08):
They must like pass whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
All right, raised first round drafting Evan Longoria. Congratulations, Jeff,
Dodgers White Sox. You still have to catch up to me.

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
Though, Dodgers White Sox. It's an interesting one. Let me
just drab. They just had a big don't want to
pick from that trade. Let's go Michael Copek.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
Okay, Don Garland, uh, White Sox Angels?

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
Which Angels loves me? Another team that just Lucas Gilido okay.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
And first round draft pick of the White Sox.

Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
Again, Like, I don't think these people that do this
broadly pay a ton of attention to the draft. I
also don't remember if like Frank Thomas was ast round
picker not, so I will just say.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
Colson Montgomery, Okay, So, Jeff you get four, Craig you
got two. Frank Thomas wasn't factor first round draft pick?

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
Okay, I kind of I kind of figured he was.

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
I just didn't know if that also, like large.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
White Sox, I thought like Jim Tony maybe like I
was trying to think historically, Yeah, like Jim Tommy was
the was Cleveland. But you know but to Tom Well, no,
not for first round draft picks. Oh for Dodgers White Sox. Yeah,
tell me would have worked.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
No one thought of it. But because Copeck won with
eight percent, so that was the lowest on the grid.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
Was good job? Yeah, go Peck was eight that'sous. I
know what did I even say?

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
I have already forgotten? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
J Garland, No, I didn't I know which I know
he played. He played for Cleveland clean, Oh that was okay.
I knew there was a I knew there was a
central third team in the mix, and I Royals, Royals Dodgers.
Was Zach Cranky fifty one percent of the vote highest,
I gotta tell you, I embarrassingly like gloss Zach Greanky as.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
A Dodger A fair Yeah, it must be hard having
so many great players team that you didn't bother remember
him all Royals Angels. I got this one with eleven percent.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
Mike was Takas okay, Yeah, he played as it was was.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
Yeah, that was a good It was a probably a
better one, but eleven percent ten. Bobby Waitt was, in
fact the first round pick, uh Dodgers Raise was Carl Crawford. Yeah,
Angels raise A boy, I do not remember Scott Kazmer
pitching for the Angels.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Oh yeah, okay, sure.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
Evan Longoria is the first round pick for the Raise.
Copek Angels, White Sox, Bartello clone. I do not remember
Barteler Colone pitching with the White Sox.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Yeah, neither. And then I'm a little shocked it's not
Tim Anderson just on recently.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
Yeah, a little bit like I think I did.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
Guess, I guess. The question is how many people paid
attention to the twenty twenty five Angels this year?

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. But I did pick first
was Thomas Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, twenty per So congratulations
to me. Well huh, but you'll you'll all have to
take my word for it, I trust you. That's what
makes really good radio is when I when you find
out I won last night, play the game before either

(01:29:29):
of you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
Thank you for the game, Patrick, thank you to you
both for coasting this episode, and thank you to our
listeners for tuning into another episode of five and Dive
brought to you by the Baseball Perspectives podcast Network. You
can get in touch with the show at five and
dive at Baseball Perspectives dot com. We are wherever you
get your podcasts. Search for Baseball Perspectives Podcast Network and
we'll be in that feed again. If you want to
rate us five stars, we'd welcome it. Otherwise, please just

(01:29:53):
hold your opinion, even if it's a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
Wait until we are five stars, because the development isn't linear.

Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
That's right, that's right. And if you've been waiting for
the pot to be over, your time is now.

Speaker 4 (01:30:12):
Vacancy still can answer h

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