All Bets Are Off: Inside the NBA’s Gambling Scandal & Players on the Hot Seat

We break down the shocking details behind the FBI’s Operation Nothing But Bet and Operation Royal Flush, a gambling scandal shaking the NBA to its core.

With over 30 arrests tied to organized crime, insider betting, and underground poker rings involving figures like Chauncey Billups, Terry Rozier, and Damon Jones, this case has rewritten the conversation around integrity in professional basketball.

Then, in our “Do It or Don’t” segment, we shift focus from off-court chaos to on-court stakes — spotlighting Jonathan Kuminga, Jabari Smith, Benedict Mathurin, Deandre Ayton, Nikola Jović, Jaime Jaquez, and Shaedon Sharpe players facing make-or-break seasons in 2025-26. 

🎧 All Bets Are Off when it comes to the NBA this year — scandals, surprises, and stars fighting for redemption.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-baseline-nba-podcast--3677698/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's good? Everybody is your boy cal game face Lee.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
The Baseline NBA Podcast is officially live. Just go to
Millions dot co and go to our profile the Baseline
NBA Podcast to check out more dope content curated just
for you. Absolutely so be sure to go to millions

(00:32):
dot co. You already know we keep it real here
the Baseline NBA Podcast. Your boy Cayl gave face Lee
and my man warren Shaw hit us up on millions.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Don't miss out.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
This is the Baseline discussing the hot button topics of
the NBA. Welcome everybody, your tune to the Baseline Calie
Warrant Shall discussing the hot button topics of the nb A.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
What a week of NBA Back the Bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
First week of NBA twenty twenty five, twenty sixth season,
and my god, it did not disappoint.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
And I know everybody is just like.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
On pins and needles, ready to hear our perspectives of
the big news that took place off the court. As
much as we should be focusing our attention on some
quality games that were being played within this first week
of the NBA, I know that that would we'd love
for that to be the full focus of our attention.

(01:32):
But as always, man, we got to speak on what
is in front of us and what is going on
in the current climate. And as always, man, nobody would
rather be doing that with them. My brother from another mother,
my man fifty grand www dot Shaw Sports, I NETWIC UNIPNC,
my brother mister Warrenshaw repping down in FTL.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
What's good, my brother.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
The the clink, the clink clink that we heard from
around the world taking place. But again, let it not
be said, man. I applaud all of the NBA players.
I applaud the the the league. Everybody still say, stayed
fixated and focused at the tax at hand, which is

(02:13):
having quality games of competitive basketball being played despite what
was happening off the court. And I just want to
make sure that that part of it has been known
before we get into our digs.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Brother, Yeah, I mean, I want to take us too
far off off tangent here, but yeah, the NBA season
obviously is back up on us. We're so excited about
that here in the baseline, you know, year whatever it is, like,
we just continue to keep rolling. But there was some
things that were peculiar on day three of the NBA season,
but to know that the NBA on NBC was back

(02:42):
and that came off without you know, proverbial hitch and
like the really focusing on basketball content or breaking down
plays Amazon launch Urge situation inside the NBA move over
to ESPN, so you would help me cover the game
that really was I think was supposed to be the
primary focus and attention in addition to the actual games themselves,
you know, getting overtime games like in the first just

(03:03):
there was a lot, a lot of really great things here,
some great debuts. So I'm going to try to keep
it as positive as possible here, but we do have
some things to kind of get into with the off
the court stuff and then obviously you know the rest
of our show here too. We're always, as you say,
give them the butter goods. But a lot happened here
at this first.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, a lot, real quick show.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I want to highlight to your point about you know,
what were your thoughts about as far as the overall
presentation the layout that took place for the first week
of the NBA Me personally, I have to say I
was actually impressed. I I came in with a lot
of skepticism because I think sometimes when new networks are
being gifted a great opportunity for them to stand out,

(03:43):
they sometimes go a little over the top.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
They get a little too cheesy, and it's easy to swipe.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
It, swipe it under the rug because you've got a
lot of money already vested in it, So what's throwing
a few more dollars towards it? Because you've already convinced
everybody that you are going to be the go to
for watching these games prime time and everything else that's
going on.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
And I speak more to about the.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Quality of how it's being delivered and what your overall
intent and message is because we do the same thing
when it comes to the NFL. So when certain networks
who haven't really been involved in that space are trying
to present it in this entertainment fashion, throwing all kinds
of music artists and you know, you know, kind of
making it seem like it's something with like not Dancing

(04:28):
with the Stars, but like all of those reality stars
show kind of you know, manifest state. I can't stand that.
Like I'm about the sports. I'm about the quality of
the sports, the delivery of the sports, the people that
you're putting that's commenting on the sports and what's being
produced and rolled out for us to continue enjoying it
and wanting more of it. And I have to say,
I'm very impressed that while NBC could have went full

(04:50):
on nostalgic and kind of like not recognize the moment
that we are in a completely different generation of how
the game should be absorb and viewed, they really did
a good job of balancing it. They reminded people of
where NBC was at that time when they were involved
in the NBA, but they're also kind of leaning us
a little bit more into what the future.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Can look like with them at the HELM.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
And I appreciate that because they could have went either
side too much and it would have gone sideways real quick.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
I mean, I think you set it up and summed
it up perfectly. The NBC and Peacock understood their proverbial assignment, like,
we've got to try to reignite the interest of those
who remember us from X amount of years ago and
then try to introduce ourselves to those who've never known
that we've covered this war before. And I think again

(05:42):
the balance that we wanted to see, and I saw
a bunch of our contemporaries on x and social media
platforms saying hey, man, this is really cool, like this,
you know, this brings us back and they're tough to
sell on new flavor. Yeah, right, And then the notion
that they're focusing as you alluded to, to the sport, right,
I love kind of the new stuff and player breakdowns
and things that nature. I don't even kind of jump

(06:03):
ahead like Donna's has them, you know, on the Amazon broadcast,
you know, he's breaking down plays for like the nixt
running and the Celtics. I was like, man, this is great,
Like I like this type of stuff. That's what Legler
does in ESPN on all on the regular basis. And
I think when others were trying to maybe it feel
a little bit short or was it maybe as in

(06:23):
depth as somebody like maybe your I might enjoy. But
to air quote, I hate this word, the terminology. But
to the casuals oh it was maybe it was fine.
But they're doing a good job across. I think there's
something for every generation of NBA fan right now with
all the networks that have been kind of awarded, as
you alluded to, the contract to broadcast NBA games this season.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Absolutely and so before we obviously get into our main
topic of the conversation, which is clearly about the scandal
that is recently erupted and rocked the the NBA and
sports world in and of itself, the last thing I
want to say, and it's the highly what you were
just saying, Shaw, I really like the fact that they

(07:05):
allowed the players to really like I'm of the mindset
like I don't mind players giving us stories and sharing
their tell tales and tell alls, and you can do
that on your podcast. You do on it, but when
you're in front of the TV, I think a lot
of people sometimes don't understand what you've spent that many
years playing the game of basketball and understanding the nuances

(07:27):
where you may not even be a coach but you're
coaching us. And I often feel that sometimes the major networks,
again lean more to the entertainment side than learning about
the game of basketball and the understanding of things when
those opportunities present itself, so we know what to look
for in the second half of the game, we know
what to look for in the second quarter of a game.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
And the fact that they're.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Allowing some of those guys that have put their blood
sweat and tears and spent so many years one championships
or whatever. You're giving them a space for them to
actually help teach us what the game of basketball should
mean to us in those moments. It's rather than playing
up to the you know, quote unquote production of what
a an.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
NBA game being called. I really do appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
I don't know if that's gonna last, but I hope
that that's something that is injected and embedded on a
consistent basis, because that, to me, tends to miss a lot.
We try to make players become personalities when the personality
of the player is what we actually want, and that's
what I'm hoping we see more so with those guys,
because we weren't seeing it with the previous people that
they were quote unquote working for.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
And again I think I think a lot of it
is what how the network decided that they wanted to
be covered. And because we have some of these guys,
a lot of these are retreads. They are moved around,
they jump it from network to now to these newer
broadcasts and like, hey know what, we're gonna portray the
game in this form or fashion now. So again, in
the first week, so far, so good. Let's hope it
continues and we don't get kind of like the familiar

(08:54):
tropes that kind of like the wars down to dust,
you know, last you know, five to ten years.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Absolutely you're tuned to the baseline Cali Warrenshaw discussing the
hot button topics of the NBA, and a few moments
we'll be getting into the big scandal that's taking place
with the nb FBI's involvement arresting indictments on certain NBA
players and coaches.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
We'll definitely get into that.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
And then we also got a pretty interesting segment do
it or don't doing it?

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Or not doing it?

Speaker 2 (09:23):
You know what I'm saying, Shout out to our boy
ll Cool Jay because you know he was always doing this.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Shout up to from Marlow from the wire, Bro Marlow.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
From that too, that too, that too. There's a there's
an appreciation with that.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
So we got a great show on tap, and of
course we appreciate everybody for hopping on board with us
this week. As always, be sure to get a man
Shaw at d Warrenshaw. You can get at me a
game face leader shows Twitter on an NBA basedline available
on all the major platforms.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
You know where to find this.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
You can go to www dot the Baseline NBA dot
com to now only check this episode, but also all
of the episodes that we've got archive for your listening pleasure.
When you see us on the YouTube channel and you
find us with the blue and a right logo down
in a lower left hand corner, that means we are
rocking with the nineteen Media Group family, So be sure
to go to nine www dot nineteen MediaGroup dot com
to only check us, but also the family of great

(10:11):
content creators that be laying it down. Nineteen Media Group
be running these content streets man. So whatever whatever your
feel is for this week, just know that nineteen Media
Group has got you. We have some great people putting
on some great shows, man, so don't miss out. Go
to www dot nineteen MediaGroup dot com. Coming up, Sean,
I'll get right into the scandal that is rocking the

(10:33):
NBA at the moment. But before we do that, it
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Coming up, Sean, I get right into the heart of things.
Don't miss it here on the baseline all right, Time

(12:07):
now for the breakdown Cali Warrenshaw based one NBA podcasts,
And as we said earlier, obviously we would love to
be in a space where all we could be talking
about was some of the exciting games that were played
so far in the first couple of games of the
NBA season, so much exciting basketball, primetime on a new network.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Basketball all over the place.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
But unfortunately we've been left the game has been dealt
with a serious blow regarding the FBI investigation and ultimate
the indictments involving NBA gambling and the scandals that are
ultimately rocking our space. And they're related to specifically two

(12:52):
types of operations that the FBI has looking into what
has been taking place regarding NBA gambling. One is called
Operation Royal Flush and the other one is called Operation
Nothing to Bet. And basically, just to kind of give
you a background of it, the FBI basically looked into
two gambling related investigations and one are distinguishingly different from

(13:15):
the other. One in relation to illegal sports betting under
user insider info, which is Nothing but Bet. That's Operation
Nothing but Bet. And then the other one is rigged
underground poker poker games that are tied to organized crime,
in which that one is called Operation Royal Flush. So,

(13:35):
in a nutshell, these are simultaneous investigations that are taking
place in which the FBI and the Department of Justice
felt it necessary that this was the time now to
basically lay the SmackDown and go out and get those
who are involved and involved in that situation. Current NBA

(13:59):
player Terry Rose from the Miami Heat and head coach
Chauncey Billups were both arrested a couple of nights into
the NBA season as part of these investigations. Now, the
scale of the investigations has led to over thirty individuals
across eleven states, many would charge with multiple indictments of

(14:19):
wire fraud, money laundering, illegal gambling, and extortion. And then obviously,
the big, you know, caveat to all of this is
that there are possible ties or alleged ties to criminal organizations,
to you know, enterprise criminal organizations.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
So in a nutshell, shaw, you.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Know, we wake up thinking the NBA is all good,
We're all focused on games, and then we find out
that a current NBA player has been arrested, a head
coach for the Portland Trailblazers and Chauncey Billups, a NBA
Hall of Famer.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Chauncey Billups has been arrested. Want to get your perspective of,
you know, what all of this means, where this, where
this possibly go? And what does this what does this
actually say about? You know, where we are with the
federal government and with major sports, and where we are

(15:15):
with betting and gambling and everything like that, and what
are what you know, what are our pain points and
understanding like how what this could all possibly mean moving forward?

Speaker 3 (15:25):
I can get on a very long soap box about
what I'm seeing even in like for youth, Like there's
high school teenagers who are betting on games, and like
more so at the NBA level or whatever. But the
fact that they're even thinking about betting at this age
is because kind of like how our culture has just

(15:46):
kind of naturally shifted and as the NBA has adopted
all these partners, it's just become really really just more
of the norm. And now though we're in the almost
Pete Rose ish sign for basketball where players are really
not even betting on their on theirselves and as you
luted tode and and kind of laid out information is

(16:10):
being shared with other betting agencies about what's going on
with the team in essence to help move the line
and essence to make money like that is I'm not
going to get into much more of that. It's just
kind of like when I look at it from like
a thirty thousand foot view, I'm just my eyes are
just truly wide open as to how the world has
shifted in its acceptance of betting in general. Now to

(16:32):
the two main people who are mentioned who are still
prominent in today's NBA so to speak. While Damon Jones
and being the ring leader of some of this, since
that's got mentioned to some choice words, but I'll leave
that out for now. But for the Portland Trail Blazers,
like what a what a fan distraction?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Like?

Speaker 3 (16:54):
This is a team that a lot of people have
high hopes for. I feel like, you know, they have
a great defensive my entity because of what Billips brings
and how he's been able to command and influence some
of those young guys. But if he's involved and stuff
like this, you know, truly, as a Hall of Famer,
this is a blemish and it's not I'm not I

(17:14):
don't think Chelncey's a bad guy. He's clearly made mistake here,
but this is just obviously you wouldn't want this happen
at any time, but I think as the Portland Trail
Bizards are trying to ascend, you know what I mean,
in a very very difficult Western Conference, to have your
head coach involved in something like this for however long
he's been involved in it is just I mean, it's

(17:35):
devastating to that locker room, you know, in a way
that I don't know, you know, I'm glad they have
veterans and their like to holiday and some others can
maybe help try to stem the parochial tide. Thiago Splitter,
I guess, is going to be the interim head coach
for the future.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
You know that, like like what maybe some ten years
ago we mentioned Thiago Splitter's name as a player, and
he's now been elevated to a head coach or he's
a head coach to interim head coach.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I mean, I've probably seen him going to be the
head coach period, you know, for the Rember.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
I mean, because a lot of people think that chelnce
he's not gonna be able to come back from this.
Not definitely not this year, and maybe not if.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
You're a Portland Traid Blazers. I can't see you wanting
to come back, like bringing him back for any of this.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, I mean, and you just you just don't want
to see that. So I'm going to wrap it up
because there's like, there's a lot of ways and this
can go. But then Terry Rogier, you know, he's obviously
struggled in the last couple of years, especially being traded
from Charlotte to Miami. I just got a wait to
see what all the investigations ultimately reveal, but to be
picked up by the FBI. And you know, something that

(18:38):
my my wife says all the time, especially when we're
watching my TV or other case to be when the
FBI is coming, like they're not coming because they don't
know you know they're coming. When when they because they
do know, and you know, it's not like if you know,
the regular law enforcement comes and they're maybe trying to
get you on some circumstantial stuff. FBI they build cases
for weeks, months, years before they go in and and

(18:59):
make so this seems like truly actionable offenses that have
a lot of merit that need to be taken very seriously.
And the next thing is not how does Adam Silver
respond or just kind of you know, obviously he has not.
The FBI do what they need to do, but does
this put a blemish on the idea of how important
betting is becoming within the NBA and other sports?

Speaker 2 (19:21):
So okay, man, there's so many different things. We can
actually have our own dedicated show highlighting a lot of things.
I'm not going to speak to the to what I
believe is the politics, the politicalization of utilizing a major
sports entity to highlight an agenda that is taking place.

(19:44):
That that's another conversation of the argument for another day.
I feel bad in a way for Adam Silver because
I don't know whether or not you heard him when
he was being interviewed as all of that was going down.
He was on NBC or Peacock. He can't remember what,
which network, which streaming platform he was, but they asked
him and he said, I'm a little surprised by this

(20:07):
because we had been working in concert because this has
been something that's been going on for like the last
two years. It's not like Terry Rozier's name just is
out of nowhere. He has always been in there, He's like.
But from where our findings were, we did not believe
that Terry Rozier committed any egregious acts or crimes. So
for the end, for the FBI to then turn around

(20:28):
and go ahead and still arrest this dude tells me
that the FBI wasn't working in concert with the NBA.
And if the FBI has broad reaching powers in how
they go about doing their investigations, they could have given
a heads up on what was really taking place rather
than doing what they did. Again, another argument for another day.

(20:50):
It does not mitigate whether or not there are actual
illegal activities that did take place on Terry Rozier's behalf.
And then when you add on top of it the
circumstances regarding Chauncey Phillips and Damon Jones. Again, it's just
it's a stain on the NBA because it makes you
wonder whether or not they are actually going they're doing

(21:12):
their due diligence as much as they say that they are.
It's almost like putting onus back on them, saying, are
you really doing what you're doing?

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Because we did this with the NFL.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Too, with domestic violence investigations and you know, illegal activities
as certain players were committing. I want to go back
to something that you were talking about, though, Shaw, about
where we are in this climate of sports and sports
betting and gambling. How long do you think it took
before we actually found out that Michael.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Jordan was a gambler.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
We never and it throughout the course of the time
of his dominance.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
It won't.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
It wasn't up until ultimately. I think it was something
either leaked or something involving his dad that we found
out how deep it was about Michael Jordan gambling. And
at that time that was taboo, right, Like, what are

(22:06):
we talking about, like professional athletes going out there gambling, right,
like doing the stuff that we would watch all of
these movies that were created on the underground scene and
gambling boot you know what I'm saying, Whether it's Harlem
Knights or freaking Goodfellas, it you know, all of that
felt like or was taboo. That is a part of
the fabric of everyday people. People go out there gambling

(22:30):
all the time, but it's magnified with all this much
money going out there and stuff, and I feel like
the problem is at to what lengths these guys are
going about doing what they do. And I think now
we're beginning to see what that all means, right Like,
if Damon Jones is actually taking that information and going

(22:50):
out there and using it to go out there and
gamble and bet, that is a far bigger problem. That
is a far sortid problem that obviously needs to be addressed,
not just by the NBA but by the organizations. Right, Like,
you cannot tell me if you're the Portland Trailblazers that
you're not keeping tabs on the guy who's supposed to
be coaching up your next generation of stars and he's

(23:13):
going out there doing these kind of things that are
going on. You see what I'm saying, Like that just
speaks to a much broader conversation that has to be
had that while yes, it's a stain on the NBA,
it's also a stain on the organizations and it's a
stain on the players themselves if they are doing these things,
Like what are we talking about now? It's just, you know,

(23:34):
it's really bad. I'm just hoping that when this is
all said and done, you put away a lot of
the bravado the front thing that goes on in front
of the cameras, and we really get at the heart
of were these guys doing things that are so egregious,
so bad that it's going to take years before we

(23:55):
actually have, you know, a level of ability in our
trust in the way these things are not just being
police but also being regulated, because that can't go on, like,
no matter what you do, all the way down to
the top, down to the bottom, like that can't go on.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
That cannot be tolerated.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Well, what I'm afraid of is that, you know, maybe
we're as a society more willfully ignorant to the facts
that these things are happening because other people are just like, hey,
you know, they're gambling on planes all the time. And
even go back to the new thest Netflix special Javar's
Cranton and Gilbert Arenas and why Gilbert was bringing guns
and stuff like that too. It all stemmed from a
gambling that in conversations like players are consistently gambling, but

(24:39):
it's just hopeful, Oh, we're not gambling on your game, right,
you're not gambling on your own As prop that's became
more prevalent in today's society and to kind of understand
because of the gambling culture has changed, Like I haven't
really been kept up because I'm not a gambler, right,
but I was like, well, what's up. I had to
learn what a prop was X amount of years ago.
I mean I understand it. I was like, what does
that mean? Now we're not just betting the odds and

(25:00):
you're gonna win back some many points. Now you can
bet this guy's gonna have X amount of assists, X
amount of turnovers. Like there's just so many ways for
this to have gone left and wrong. But I think
also knowing that with the FBI investigation, hopefully for those
who are haven't been caught yet, because now I think
we know this is probably deeper and more prevalent than
we would even think it is. And there could be

(25:23):
team officials and it could be you know, the the
equipment manager is like, hey, you know what, this guy's
ankle is not looking too good. I am hearing he's
not gonna play. And then they said, I mean you
can't control at all, Like that would be ignorant to
think that you could. But if you are truly affiliate,
affiliated with the team and are doing this type of

(25:44):
behavior like that it just has to stop. And Adam
Silver and company they have a very very tall task ahead.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
They do.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
But to your point, Shaw, I was hoping more so
that and again I think for there to be a
legitimacy in what is taking place. I am hoping that
that there is there is more meat on the bone
regarding Operation Royal Flush than Operation Nothing but Bad, because that,

(26:14):
to me is something where even if the federal government
is going to get is going to you know, basically
put their thumb on the scale, it still ultimately has
to go back to how the NBA works with the
NBPA right about figuring out a way to regulate that
aspect of it so that it's not players who are
getting purp walked out there. Right at the same time, however,

(26:37):
what we're talking about with Operation Royal Flush is something
far more sortid, because then what that is saying is
there are people who have deeper pockets, deeper connections, dangerous connections,
and we're saying that this guy is a part of it.
We don't know if he's a part of it willingly
or if he's being extorted, but if he's being a

(26:59):
part of it, there are no say, you know, there's
no safeguards because now we're probably talking about people who
are part of dangerous activities, influencing things that we have
no control or outcome over. And I think in those regards, yes,
I would definitely want the FBI and any other federal
agency that's supposed to be policing those matters stepping in

(27:20):
to make sure that the laws are being enforced properly
and that the right people are being investigated and the
right people are being arrested. What I don't want this
to be is something that is basically based making it
sound like NBA is making money hand over fits and
because the federal government is not getting a piece of
the pie, we're gonna basically make up we're gonna smear

(27:42):
them all over the place because they allowed all of
this stuff going on, the stuff that certain players, like
what's going on with Chauncey Billups, that to me is
far more dangerous than what happened than what was going
on with Terry Rozier or what's going on with Damon Jones.
Right Like, that's the kind of stuff that yes, the
league should be involved in, should should basically step in,
lean into work with the unions. You know, what I'm saying,

(28:04):
the Managers Association, the Managers Union, I'm sorry, Head Coaches
Union should be stepping in on this because I don't
want they don't want any of their other head coaches
who are involved in something like this, like what happened
to Chauncey Billups happening to them. So everybody collectively needs
to come together and have a say and make sure
that these things are being properly assessed and are reviewed

(28:26):
and audited. But at the same time, we're talking about
with federal crimes like that should not be overlooked either,
And I just hope that for all of this effort,
this doesn't blur the lines and the right things need
to happen in place to assure that moving forward, we're
not going to have what's happening because I see very
two distinct pasts happening here, but yet they're all being

(28:49):
pointed at quote unquote the NBA as being you know what,
I'm saying that the central part of what's manifested here,
and I think people have to be careful with that
because is not much that can be done when you're
talking about federal crimes being committed by people who are
far more above and beyond even what the league can
do in that situation.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
I'll close by saying this players Association is obviously trying
to stand behind you know, their guy, I guess in
this case, right narrator Rogier, and obviously not forgetting about
my comporter Junior's brother last year. You know the stuff
that too. But in a statement, the PA said, integrity
of the game is paramount to NBA players, but so
is the presumption of innocence, and both are hindered when

(29:34):
player of popularity is being misused to gain attention. We
will ensure our members are protected and afforded their due
process rights through this process. So you know, I don't
think while Terry Rogier is a nice player and somebody
why publicly even rooted for, I don't I don't think
his name is is you know what I mean? Is

(29:57):
it being used to garner attention in the he just
happens to be the person who was involved in the situation.
So like like to me that it reads a little
funny and how they peate. But again, the PA's got
it like a bunch of lawyers, and they gotta they
gotta protect the integrity if you will, you know, while
of their organization and the players in essence that they represent.
But you know, it's not like this thing named Lebron

(30:18):
or Luca or somebody you know of a higher pedigree,
so to speak, when in terms of popularity it comes
to NBA culture, something we got to continue to watch.
I'm really really sad, you know, again for the Portland
troll Blazers. Hopefully they'll be able to triage this and
still continue on a path of success that a lot
of us predicted for them. This year. Rogier was dubious

(30:40):
the best to be within the Miami Heat lineup, and
you know, rotation on a regular basis. But still there's
other things here that are probably even more important than
basketball that need to be sorted out well.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
And I think the sad thing to your point, Shaw,
and I'll leave it with this as well too, is
you know, the situation with Damon Jones and then like
you know, trying to leak out or mention in that,
you know, his relationship with Lebron James, you know also
you know, has elevated this and and and again, I
just don't like the idea of names being thrown out

(31:13):
there without there being proper context and I'm again, listen,
I'm a I'm a proponent of of I want to
be a proponent of law and order, you know what
I mean. Like, I want to make sure that that
those are actually who are you know, officers who are

(31:34):
out there, I'm putting their life on the line. I
don't want them to be out there having to defend
the perception of people who are triggering something that feels
like could be in a political agenda when it should
be with the actual intent of saying that we are
trying to ensure the safety of our citizens and things
of that nature. It doesn't matter if you're rich or

(31:54):
you're poor. And that's the thing that I fear that
if this is nothing but smoking mirrors and there's don't
meet on the bone to this, we've basically have marginalized
not just the league that people invest put money into,
people have jobs into, and all the other stuff we
also have, you know, we've also have deteriorated the integrity
of an institution that is part of what we have

(32:17):
to defend a whole nation in. Like in other words,
I'm hoping that the FBI is full throated in their
efforts of what they did to lay this all out.
It better look as good as what happened these last
seventy two hours, because if it isn't, then again another
blow has been struck, has been stricken on the integrity

(32:39):
of something that we have to go back and we repair.
And I know that that is something that Adam Silver
is conscious about regarding the NBA. He doesn't want to
spend more time repairing something that didn't need to be
repaired because there's three or four individuals, quote unquote bad
apples of the bunch who don't appreciate what the league
has afforded these guys the opportunity to do. And so

(33:01):
that's the reason why I'm hoping everyone who now understands
it when this has happened, moving forward, everybody has to
be on the same page, right, Like this can't be
another situation where someone knows more about the other thing
and now is getting blindsided by this. Like everybody now
needs to be fully in to know about what's going
on in order for the proper steps, you know, to

(33:22):
be taken so that we you know, we root out
all of this stuff and we figure out a way
to regulate this in a proper manner.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yeah, well said so let's continue to stay stay tuned here,
let the FBI and officials do what they need to do,
and Adam Sober hopefully get the league trending in the
right direction.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Absolutely, you're tuned to the baseline.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Cali Warnshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA
coming up.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Who's doing it? Who's not doing it?

Speaker 2 (33:50):
We're gonna talk about some guys man who have pivotal
seasons ahead of them. Have they started out with the
right message about where they see this easnt going for them?
You do not want to miss it here on the baseline.

(34:13):
We're back Cali Warrenshaw based on NBA podcast time for
our segment. Doing it or not doing it? And if
you're doing it, are you doing it well? Are you
doing it? Like LLL you do it?

Speaker 3 (34:25):
I got it? Do it or dope? Like I like
doing it? Well?

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Are they doing it and they're not doing it?

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Well?

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Okay, do it or don't do it or don't?

Speaker 3 (34:33):
All right? So you you on the LAS You're on
the l O train. I'm on the Marlin train or
Marlowe train. From the wire. That's what I'm like. Do
it or don't? I got somewhere to be. That's what is.
I'm tired of waiting on some of these dudes to perform,
to perform the level that we think they can perform.
But we can go, we can throw the I'm.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Noticing though, Man, you you you you got a little
Marlin looked to you, Marlow looked to you. Today. I
got you. Listen, you know, shout out to our man, Jamie.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
I don't need I don't. I don't need those struggles
in my life.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
He is, it is Marvel. Jamie Hector was not the
perfect Marlow Stanfield.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
He was, Oh my god, he was. He was great actor.
Shout outs.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
I caught the Wire man, like one of the best
shows on TV ever.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Absolutely all right, Shaw, so let's let's get into it.
You know, these are guys that to you know, what
you had alluded to. You know, these are this is
a critical season for a couple of the players that
we're going to be talking about here, and you know,
we'll even highlight, you know, what they've done already so
far this season to kind of speak to that. But

(35:34):
given contracts that they may have had, or contracts they're
looking for, it's going to be important to see what
kind of contributions they're going to be making and where
they're gonna fit in the grand scheme of things come
this up upcoming NBA off season as well too, And
it's good to talk about ahead of time because it
means that our people need to keep an eye on
them and see what they're doing in the early outset

(35:54):
for this, uh, for this NBA season.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, I think we have a list of guys here
who are there in as you lude to contract years.
Some have a significant body of work and maybe we
just know who they are already. But I'm just kind
of keeping my eye on some of these dudes. Say,
you know what, this could be a truly a pivotal
year where you ascend or maybe you kind of go
into the phantom zone rather and then listener, mean you'll

(36:18):
be out of the league. But I think for the
first guy and I'll kind of jump right into it,
I'll talk about you know, DeAndre Ayton and Eighten is
somebody who's obviously been in this league for a very
long time. Here now, I think he's what seven eight
years in he's average a double double right, sixteen and
ten for his career. Nothing to sneeze at, but I
think the notion of he himself said that he wanted

(36:40):
to be this dominating and this dominating type player and
we haven't really seen that. And the fact that that
wasn't the case in his time in Portland when they
were truly kind of the void of like superstar level
talent at the time is perplexing. I think, to say
the very very least. Now he's on a you know,
basically he was brought out by the Blazer, is on

(37:01):
the equivalent of a you know, veteran minimum deal with
the with the LA Lakers in a situation where he
could potentially thrive. And I think for DeAndre aight And
is like is do it or don't? And I'm going
to ask ucl do you think DeAndre aight And can
do it to where he can be a truly a
dominating presence or maybe not dominating but you know back

(37:22):
to that maybe even eighteen and eleven type presence, or
is he going to be a high level, high servers
kind of journeyman center. You know, I think we're kind
of at that stage. He's twenty seven, going to be
twenty eight. Is he just who he is? Or is
there a level where he can actually be a more
significant presence on the basketball for I.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Think if he's if he's playing with Lebron and with Luca,
I don't think that's ever going to happen. However, I
will say that the eighteen and eleven that you're speaking
to might be exactly what the Los Angeles Lakers needs
for what he can contribute. I think the question isn't
so much DeAndre Ayton's numbers as much as it is

(38:01):
is attitude and his approach to the game of basketball.
And I and I'm not saying that lightly. I'm not
saying that he is not deserving, you know, to be
a starting center. I'm not saying that, you know, his
game is not patterned for him to yield success on
a team that he plays for. But I think to
what you're talking about is there has to be a
mantra and attitude, a demeanor that you you know, if

(38:23):
you if you're gonna go out there and say you're
you know, denominating or dominating and stuff like that, Like
it has to resonate in how you play that game. Right,
Like Nikola Jokic doesn't need to say anything, but you
can clearly see how his presence and the way he
goes about playing that game speaks to it.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
He could his his numbers.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Right, If Jokic has those same numbers eighteen and eleven,
more of the announcers will bobably talk about how dominating
a game Jokic had with those numbers. Those would be
pedestrian numbers for him, by the way, so he's doing
so much more beyond that. But even with those numbers,
he'll still have some kind of an impact on the
game that will speak volumes not just for the game,

(39:05):
but also moving forward. And I think that is what's
always been lacking with DeAndre Ayton. And I don't know
where all of that went awry, but you would have
thought that he would have picked up on that playing
next to Devin Booker, playing with Chris Paul, and having
an opportunity to win an NBA championship when he was
playing with the Phoenix Suns, and so that to me,
I think is what stands out more than anything. So

(39:25):
I don't see it with DeAndre Ayton no matter where.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
You put him on there.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
I'm just hoping that the numbers will translate to be
successful with the team he plays with, but not something
where he is the person that we perceived them to
be as you know, dominate.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yeah, I feel that. I mean, yeah, he could be
a guy statistically who gets there, but it doesn't have
the impact that you know, you would think it would
for somebody. So where he's at at sixteen and eleven
for the most part for his career or sixteen point
four ten and a half over well over fifty five
percent shooting from from from the floor only a block
you know, for the So you don't want him to

(40:01):
be more impacted.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
There's no fear factor, you know.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, But yeah, I think DeAndre and is more or
less exactly who he's been, a guy who can get
you some numbers here and there, but maybe the presence
isn't what it is. So yeah, I'm agree with you
on I think it's going to be a don't on
DeAndre don't all right, all right, So let's want me
to lead it on. I'll continue to keep the pushes, sir.

(40:24):
So the next guy I have on my list is
from the Houston Rockets, and let's just go and bring
him up here. Jabari Smith Jabari. It was interesting because
the first game of the NBA season, he is on
the NBC NBA on NBA and h NB, I get
it is wrong. NBA on NBC Slash Free cock telecast

(40:45):
and he joins it, and he joins the broadcast. He's like, yeah, man,
I want to be, you know, the most improved player
this year, in addition to trying to win a championship.
Now that Durant's on the roster, so this is year four,
he's gotten his extension already. I think of anybody, we're
talking about the biggest extension. I think it's five years,
one hundred and twenty two million dollars, so that's pretty extensive.

(41:06):
Hasn't locked in if he will at least in the
money until twenty thirty one. And is he somebody who's
going to show as a most improved type player? He
can shoot the three, he can defend, he has size,
and I like to give him some some credit. But
my problem here is, and I'll see if you agree
with me, I'm not quite sure I know what doing

(41:27):
it for Jamari Smith is right now. And because he's
already gotten the bag, I don't know where it is
from the girl. Like I said, he says he wants
to be most approved player, so maybe that's you know,
is he in that conversation, maybe that's the measuring stick
this year, but is he going to be something more
than you know, a fourteen to fifteen point per game guy?
Can he get his rebounds up into the seven or

(41:48):
eight range while still shooting you know above, you know,
forty percent from three, which is obviously very valuable. Your
thoughts on Jabari Smith because I like him, I'm just
not sure what doing it looks like.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah, So if if we're talking about j Smith being
most improved player, that is great for Jabari Smith and
also great for the Houston Rockets and what the future
might hold as far as them continuing to be a upside,
potential great team. Maybe in the conversation of you know,

(42:18):
finals contenders, right, However, I'm still standing on that that
you know, that hill that the road to the championship
for the Houston Rockets, getting them to that NBA Finals
is more predicated on Aman Thompson than it is Jabari Smith.
And the reason why I say this is because Jabari
Smith now will have so much more opportunity for him

(42:41):
to show us what he's capable of now that Fred
van Fleet is gone. On the flip side of it, however,
because Fred van fleet is gone. To your point, I
don't know what version of Jabari Smith is going to
be contributory to the success of the Houston Rockets. We've
already seen that the path to the Houston Rockets offensive
is feeding the ball to Kevin Durant, and Kevin Durant's

(43:03):
gonna eat Alfred Sengoon is going to eat I'm and Thompson.
I think if he becomes that ball distributor, he may
be able to be Jabari Smith's saving grace. So my
big question is what will Jabari Smith contribute to the
table that will enable us to continue to talk about
the Houston Rockets, And if Jabari Smith is not going
to contribute from a rebounding perspective, if he's not contributing

(43:26):
from a defensive perspective to keep the Houston because I'm
already seeing that the Houston Rockets may wind up taking
a step back defensively. So while they garnered all of
this offensive weaponry, if they're not playing the same level
of defense they played last year, this is a moot
point about whether or not the Rockets are gonna get
to the finals. So I think it behooves a Jabari
Smith that with all that athleticism and that ability to

(43:50):
play above the rim. It has got to translate on
those fifty to fifty balls, has got to translate on
his defensive proudness and awareness. He's got to be the
guy that helps Alfred sengoon and establish that presence in
the front court. And I don't know if whether or
not he's in a mode to do that, because to
your point, he got the bag and the first thing

(44:11):
that he's talking about being most improved sounds like more
offensive contributions than it is defensive.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
I mean, that's what the most improved usually is, like, Hey,
now I score more points because I had more opportunity.
But is there truly gonna be more opportunity with a
men's ascension, no pun intended, And you know, Katie on
the roster, even with Fred van Blien being out of
the lineup for this year. So I don't know that
we're going to get our answer in terms of him
being able to do it this year specifically. But I
thought his comments about wanting to be most improved was

(44:39):
I mean, and.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
I pawed him because maybe that in and of itself
is challenging himself to really step up this year because
again he's been a misnomer to me, you know what
I'm saying. And we're gonna start having those conversations with
guys like him, and we'll start having conversations like guys
like DeAndre Ayton. And remember we did that with Evan
mo we did that with them, with with Jaron Jackson Junior.

(45:03):
So I hope it happens a lot sooner than later,
because if it's later for a guy like Jabari Smith,
I don't see him where he continues to fit in
that picture where they're going to continue to keep throwing
him out there and he's not actually contributing on a
consistent basis for what the Rockets need to be contenders.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Yeah, I mean, and he still has the chip on
the shoulder from not being the number one pick. Clearly there,
eleven of Magic made the right decision. And not that
Jabari is a bad guy or bad player, He's clearly not.
But he wasn't the number one pick you know when
that draft. Still a lot of runway on his career
to become, you know, even more impactful than we've seen.
But I do kind of question with the other guys
kind of already ahead of him in the pecking order,

(45:41):
Can he do it in the role, can he be
a star in the role that he's being aster right now,
or does he need to be on another team a
roster to truly fulfill what he might think is number
one pick potential, you know, talent and putting up those
types of numbers. So, uh, let's see one of Jabari Smith.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
One thing I want to add, and I think this
is going to also kind of be the running theme
as well, Toushaw with a couple of other guys that
we're gonna talk about, especially the one at the very end.
You guys keep tuning, stay tuned with US basketball IQ,
and guys like Jabari Smith with that level of athleticism
and what he contributes. Again, we're gonna be talking about

(46:17):
a few guys in a few moments, and all of them,
I think if you're talking about them getting ahead, I'm
challenging them to step up their basketball IQ, because I
think that goes a long way for what they can
potentially give you and teams that they're playing for. If
they're still at that same mentality about it's all about
the scoring, the points, and they're and they're they're not

(46:39):
positioned properly they're not reading those screens and those those
pick and rolls properly and things of that nature. We're
gonna be having the same conversations where there's are quote
unquote empty calorie numbers for what they're getting compensated for.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
All right, let's move on to the Miami Heat. And
you know two guys wife's been speaking about. This is
our only like two do if he will, from the
same team, But we're going to talk about Hammy Hawks
Junior and nikolay Jovich. Now in the say, in the
case of Yovich, he's been able to secure his deal.
A lot of people weren't sure if Miami was going
to make the investment, but he got a four year,

(47:14):
sixty two point four million dollar extension, you know, from
his rookie deal and is now in Miami presable presumably
presumably for the for the pursueable future. Hommy Hawks, on
the other hand, is in the year three. Where year
one was really good, last year was not so great.
We spoke about this on our show where he's actually
spoken to psychologists and things that nature is like, hey,
you know what, some of my struggles last year were

(47:34):
on the mental side. And so he's off to a
decent start here in the two games that Miami's played
as we recorded. But he's somebody who I think Miami's
like saying, hey, is he truly a part of our
long term future or shouldn't we be looking to package
him because he does have some talent, But also remember
he came in as an older rookie, you know, playing
all those years at UCLA. Yovich and and Aakes Junior,
I think are two really interesting players who truly, like

(47:57):
everyone here, has showing flashes at times, but it hasn't
gone out there and like captured the moment and the
minutes for sposure to say, you know what, here's your
thirty minutes a night, no matter what's happening. I'm I
think Yovich. I think Yovich is probably a little bit
closer along, but also also you know, having I guess
maybe the one extra year in so to speak, but
also the notion of h he played really well like

(48:21):
in euro Basket, right, and he's been able to kind
of like step up in some of his roles there.
Ra Hawka Junior I feel like has maybe a more
complete game, can do more things, has more tools to disposal,
But not sure if he does any of those things
well enough, again, that'll rewards him consistency in minutes. But
I like both guys, so I think both of these
guys will be able to do it to a certain level.

(48:44):
But I don't know if they'll be able to do
what on the Miami Heat, especially with so many like
players on that roster.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Your thoughts on on either one of us, listen, I
completely agree with you. I think they can do it
with any other team that they're playing for. I just
don't know if they're going to be able to do
it for the Miami Heat, which is a shame because
I think the Miami Heat should very much lean into
what the culture brings out of them, which is next
man up, mentality and death depth by a thousand cuts, right, Like,

(49:09):
you could actually have a very extensively deep team if
those guys are contributing and I think on a consistent basis,
that may be the challenge. And to your point, we
talked about this with Eric Spolstra, and you know, I'm
saying his his his revelations, his you know, his evolution
as a coach. Maybe there's a little bit more patience
now being exhibited to give these guys the opportunities for

(49:31):
them to show some consistency. But I think if the
Miami Heat are planning to be a contending team, those
guys are gonna have to do it because then if not,
the Miami Heat don't And so I'd be interested to
see how much they lean into this, because to your point,
Hame could be a he's like that five to two player.

(49:53):
And I talked about, you know, jew Holidays some years ago,
about how that guy could just do everything well, but
like the one thing that you need him to do
when it matters the most, it doesn't seem to execute.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
It doesn't come off.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
And I think he finally found himself playing next to
a guy like Giannis and everything like that where I'm sorry,
not Gianni's when he played next to Anthony Davis where
I think it clicked right where his ability to then
now focus on being a point guard, being a leader,
showing you what he could do defensively, leaning into those things,
it elevated him to a point that the next destination
he goes to, he helps win a championship. Then the

(50:28):
next destination he goes to, he helps win a championship,
and that just doesn't become a thing so I'm wondering
if this is what's gonna happen with ham Uh, with
Jaime more so than Yokis, because I think Jovic is
gonna be, you know, a solid front court player. I
just don't know if he's gonna be a starter, but
we'll see. But I think if you're the Heat, you
embrace that and let that help be a part of

(50:48):
the depth that the the Heat sorely need, you know,
especially now what happened to Rosier, but they sorely need
that depth for them to be competitive.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
In the East.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yeah, I think Jovic because he can shoot the three
right now better than than Hawks can and it just
has a little bit more sized, so probably presumably can
play three, four, five. I think they have Hawks playing
maybe two, three and four. So you know, they both
provide versatility, and there's a lot of reasons for a
Heat fans to be excited about both of them. We
just want to see level of consistency and now we

(51:19):
will understand or get to see if those guys can
carve out those minutes here, especially they're the going on
hero out obviously now the Rosier thing as well, too,
kill aware is also biting for minutes here too, So
there's a lot of guys in the way, per se.
But I have confidence in these guys. But like I
said before, I don't know if they'll be able to
do it to the same level of the actual potential
on this Miney heat Rusher. Maybe one of these guys

(51:40):
gets moved. I think at some point possible. All right,
gonna move on and not spend too much time on this,
you know, because you know mister Johnathon Kaminga, uy say,
I don't want to say it.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
I don't want to waste my time talking about it.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
I'm just saying at this point we all know the
Kaminga story. So he he gets the two year extension
forty eight and a half million dollars, gives him some flexibility,
gives the Golden State Wars some flexibility as well. Kaminga
to start off the year has I think, played really
good basketball, fitting into the Warriors overall ethos, even doing
some playmaking and not just trying to score himself. And
this is the cominga we're going to get. I've said, hey,

(52:15):
I'll be happy to eat my words because I just
haven't been biggest cominga guy. So I'll turn it over
to you. Your thoughts on Johnathan Kaminga. Will he be
able to do it in Golden State or is he
does it to do it something.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Like yeah, well, I mean he can do it. But
this isn't This isn't on Kminga. This is on Steve Kerr,
flat out, period, end the story. If Steve Kerr cannot
figure out a way to maximize what Jonathan Kaminga does,
that should be the indictment on Stephen, not any indictment
on his legacy's career as being a great head coach.
But he just can't get it right with that player,
you know what I'm saying. And so as far as

(52:46):
I'm concerned, I easily see Kaminga can do this if
there is confidence in allowing him to do it. And
if there is no confidence that what was the point
of giving him that contract because you just didn't want
to see egg on your face, you know what I'm saying,
Because you couldn't stand, you know, letting him go elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
And I think to the detriment.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
We just me maybe they gave him the deal so
that he could do it to be ultimately moved, right,
so be it, and then you can't.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
But then you can't undercut your move by allowing Steve
Kurr to keep sabotaging the ability for him to contribute
in any meaningful way.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
So far, so far, so good.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Listen, your confidence in Kaminga is about the same as
my confidence in Steve Kerr getting Kaminga's playing minutes and
decision making process right.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
I'm not questioning what he does for everyone else.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Butler, you know, Curry, Green, Peyton, all of them. He
gets him right with all of his veterans. When it
comes to these young talented dudes, it always And listen,
look at where most of these other young guys are
now playing now right. They're all in other places. And
I just think that this becomes a trend again. I

(53:58):
don't want to be labored to point because we got
one more of the I know that you want to
meaningfully have a conversation too, But when it comes to Kaminga,
I think he can do it. I just don't know
whether or not he could do it underneath Steve Kerr.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
All right, well, let's move on to our last two guys.
But the first guy on of the two is Benedict
Mathern in Indiana, so interestingly enough, did not get a
contract extension despite knowing that he was going to have
a much larger role this year with Tyre's Halliburton being out.
Mathurren has suffered a I guess a shoulder injury. I
believe it was that I saw, you know, in game

(54:31):
two of their season. So you know, at the time
of this recording, not sure what his status will be
like going into next.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
The paces look like very smart people.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Well but I mean, but maybe because Mathurin was hoopid.
Right He's averaging over twenty five A games and the
time the two games that we've seen thus far, and
is trying to rebound and even doing a little bit
more play creation right now, I kind of lack Mathern.
I like his his moxie, so to speak, but a
lot of people have said he's also like the East
Coast version Johnathan kaminga so in terms of like what

(55:02):
he feels like is entitled to him to some degree.
But with the pacer not giving him a deal, I'm
sure he's going to be incentivized in that sense to
really perform this year. I think he's going to get
a chance to do it statistically, but will it mean
wins or competitiveness for the Pacers throughout the course of
the year. That remains to be seen on Miss. I
know you're you're kind of a mathing guy, So what

(55:23):
are you thinking.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
I'm I'm a mathering guy because I just believe that
he has he has all of the tools necessary for
him to be a meaningfulle a meaningful uh contributory impact player, right.
I mean, realistically, if he had his head on straight
like and stayed focused at the task at hand at times,
he actually would be in conversations a six man in

(55:45):
a year. But he never stays consistent with the way
he does things, and it doesn't help that he's constantly injured.
His timing of injuries unfortunately, I think his undermined his
ability that he should have already been a main state
for the Indiana Pacers. So I completely understand why the
payers hedging are hedging their bets on this and if
it's forcing Matherin to hone in and really be like, yo,

(56:05):
I gotta be about being on the court like it's
it's it's unfortunate what happened to him with this injury, right,
like to get that kind of productivity in the first
two games. But we've also seen like last year he
started off coming out out the gates hot and then
had this cold stretch where it was just like nowhere
to be found, and then the only time that we
were talking about him was when he was getting technicals

(56:26):
or he essentially was just a non factor during during
certain periods, during certain stretches of the end of the
season and with the Pacers.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
So I think he's capable of doing it.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
I don't want to say that he's not capable of
doing it, But what do they say, Your best ability
is your availability, And if his availability is gonna undermine that,
we'll see what version of event of Mathering comes out
back after this injury. If he's not gonna be out
there on the floor, and he's got to make sure
that he is keeping his head on right, like he

(56:56):
has got to be fully in tune. The Pacers need
a fully engaged Mathurine, not the one that's just a pest,
you know, to everybody on the court, or or basically
a self destructive, you know, player on the basketball court
that's not contributing anything to Carliles cause, because he's got
enough to juggle with. But he can't juggle an inconsistent.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Mathtermin You know, I think we've talked about this before,
but as we've mentioned these guys in back to back ways,
you know enough to do with who you got a
coaminga versus Mathurine and just kind of figure out as
those comparisons have made basically East and West Coast versions
kind of each other, almost toppel gangers in terms of
like how they see themselves and maybe some stuff they
battle with. But Mathron has had a much longer I

(57:38):
don't want to say, I don't want to say that word.
I'd say it has been more trust I think placed
in him throughout the time. So but again, his injury
history has been very problematic, I think for Indiana, especially
in that first two years ago, in that run in
that series against the Boston Celtics, if he would have
been available, although it was as sweep, I think, you know,
Indian pacers has had would have had a lot more options.

(57:58):
And Mathurne was immense times in the NBA Finals as
well too. In Indiana's offense seem to struggle at I
think to finally, I.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Think, to your point Shaw, this is where Tyree's Halliburton
I think it really comes into play in being a
mentor to you know, Benedett macterins like, while Halliburton is
off the floor, if he is a voice in his
ear and is emphasizing what he could potentially help give
the Pacers his contributions. Matherins contributions like, I just want

(58:28):
people to don't sleep on Matherine. If he is on
the court and he is productive. When he is productive,
he is about as dangerous as a player that you'll
see out there on that basketball court. But again, at
times it's when he takes himself out mentally in games
that that hurts him and it also hurts the team.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
All right, final one here, and this is a guy
who I think a lot of people are like, like
we're waiting on him, Like we're waiting on him.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Because he's got waiting for attracted exclude.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
He's got the athletic ability, you know, he can jump
out the gym, seems to be like the natural score.
But Shade and sharp, you know from the Portland Trail
Blazers should have a presumably really great opportunity right now.
I think is penciled in as a starting wing and
in Portland and getting some opportunities you know, to get
the minutes. Also has had some stuff with injuries as

(59:18):
well too. You know so much to some guys that
we've spoken about, but needs to be more than like
this slasher elite level leaper with inefficiency in terms of
you know when he's when he when he's scoring from
the floor and he's gonna lock in defensively in a
way that now Thiago's splitter would want to say, you
know what, go out here, here's thirty minutes a night,

(59:38):
no matter what situation is. He got a contract, So
I thought it was really interesting that the Blazers said,
you know what, we're going ahead and give you this
money here now, despite not really seeing everything that I
think I would have wanted to see if I was
a general manager or grumnor of this team. But four
years ninety for a guy who is often injured, I'm

(01:00:01):
not sure if it's incentive, lated or not. Well your
thoughts on Shandon Sharp's overall potential? Will Shadon Sharp be
a guy who actually does it? Or will he will?
He will, he won't do it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
In Portland Trailer, I'll give you an answer with a question,
would you take Shaden over Kminga?

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
I would not, I would not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Okay, so you said zo way, you said, you you
you you you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Would not take Shaden over Kaminga.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
I would not. I would prefer to have Jonathan Kamingo
over Shape. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Well then now there you go. And then I think
you've answered my question right, like in the sense that
I think if Jonathan Kmingo was playing for the Portland
Trail Blazers, what would his numbers actually look like, you know,
with that roster around him, rather than cominga playing around
the veterans, And Shadon Sharp has got this prime opportunity
for him to be a standout. And these things are

(01:00:55):
just not translating. Listen, We've often talked about how teams,
you know, it's it's hard to find athleticism, right, Like
you just can't teach kids that are just basically jumping
out their shoes. But what good is it if it's
not controlled or harnessed or focused on having an impact
in the game that you're playing or against the teams
that you're playing against. And I think we're running into

(01:01:16):
that problem with shad and Sharp, Like I you know,
I hope that he kind of this is the year
he figures it out. I hope that the guys that
are playing around him see that potential, are putting him
in a position where he is, you know, helping to
elevate hisself to that next level, because clearly it's difficult
for him to do that on his own, you know.
And and listen, we're not saying that he's not capable.

(01:01:38):
It's that's the reason why you have point guards. That's
the reason why you have you know, guys that have
that play multiple positions. I think ultimately that's what's gonna
need to happen for Shad and Sharp, Like he cannot
get by with the athleticism anymore. Like at some point
now this has to translate where it's either meaningful rebounding,
meaningful assists, meaningful three point shooting. Whatever it is just

(01:02:00):
can't be because it looks like it can go out
of like it could hop out of the gym. It's
got to translate to something where it's meaningful statistics and
numbers that are elevated for what he does for his role,
you know, playing that two three stretch.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Yeah, I let me correct myself. And he only missed
ten games last year, so I guess he's not injury prone.
I think he just he was battling some things here
and there, but the year before he missed a lot
of games, but played eighty games in this rookie season.
But we're seeing the three point percentage kind of like
trend down in a league that obviously values shooting, especially
from the wing position. And if he's not getting to

(01:02:36):
the line or you know, getting fouled on a regular basis,
you know, it's just it's you just see a lot
of inefficiency in terms of his scoring and UH and
and those numbers, and he doesn't really do a lot
you know, on the on the play creation side of
the basketball or really getting you know, blocks and steels
on a regular basis. Not a bad passer. I think
he's a capable passer and a ball mover within the offense.
So I think that's something too that we'll probably see

(01:02:58):
another level there where he does do. But he's somebody
who I want to kind of keep my on right now.
I've hedge my bets on probably the know that he
won't and at least not for what we see if
it's potential to be. So if we scale things down
and just say, hey, this is a guy who will
be a high volume shooter but low efficiency scorer. There's

(01:03:20):
places for that, but not necessarily for a team that's
trying to win in Portland. I hope I'm wrong, because
I really think he's a you know, a commendable young
man with a lot, a lot, a lot of God
given talent and just trying to harness that in a
way that puts him on the right trajectory for I.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Don't want to categorize him, but I feel like his
projectory is one that could be very similar to DeAndre Hunter.
You know, like if things don't work out where he
is showing that he's a capable starter, whether it's a
good team or a bad team, then I would like
to I'd like to think that he has a role
where you know, he can come off the bench and

(01:03:57):
he can contribute and provide significant which is not necessarily
a bad thing. But I also believe as well too,
that it masks this dependency, in this need for him
to be someone that's gonna be out there that's gonna
get absorbed a boatload of minutes, and then we're leaning
on him to shoot the three when he doesn't shoot
the three ball well, right, Like maybe when he's playing

(01:04:20):
with the second units, there's more opportunity for him to
allow that athleticism to really help accentuate what he can
give you, because I know that that's what we wound
up doing for a couple of guys, and that's the
reason why I mentioned DeAndre Hunter. While DeAndre Hunter, you know,
I'm sure some people still believe that he could be starting. No.
I mean, if he's thriving on a roster that needs

(01:04:41):
depth and needs athleticism in their second unit and he's
been given the floor essentially to go and do that,
he will have more of an impact for the Cleveland
Cavaliers than he will be playing for the Atlanta Hawks
or playing for the Memphis Grizzlies or any other team
that's going to assume to start him. Because with that athleticism,
you can do anything if it's not needed for what

(01:05:02):
the first unit is doing. So that's what I'm looking
at with Shaden Sharp. If this is the year that
we don't see these these this this incremental improvement to
what he is bringing to the table, you have to
start asking the question whether or not he's better suited
not to be on the bench, but to be better
suited with a unit that's going to allow that athleticism

(01:05:22):
to accentuate. It is why we had this conversation with
Jonathan Kaminga. You know what I'm saying and where the
Golden State Warriors are with what you're trying to do.
With Jonathan KAMINGA, I think you can ask saying you
can have the same argument about the Portland Trailblazers with
Shayden Sharp.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Yeah. I think that's a good point, you know, to
kind of close on. You know, we love three point
shooting and maybe like that that shot is in for everybody.
But he shot forty seven percent. I'm looking it up now.
He shot forty seven percent between ten and sixteen feet
last year. It's just not a shot that he took
a lot of, right, I think only it's showing here,
like maybe fourteen percent of his shot diet was within
that range, but he shot at well, so maybe more

(01:05:58):
of that, you know, and then you can kind of
live especially because if he can do the wonder, we'll
pull up. You know. No, it's gonna really block his
shot just because he's got elite level athleticism and if
he can hit those instead of just trying to like
settle for threes, maybe he can be kind of like
in the Duros in this type mold. Yeah, I mean
you can really just kind of knock things down there
and have a really really great career, you know, as
a scorer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
And so this is the reason why you say, like
they say all the time, get to your spot right,
get to your spots, get there first, right, control that
and then if they're they're basically forcing you to have
to go out there and shoot the three, Okay, then
that's what you gotta do until you know you adjust

(01:06:40):
or make them adjust again. But I think more times
often and this is what gets exposed when we talk
about the NBA. Guys choose to go and take that
shot because they think that that shot is what's gonna
work for them, and they don't stay within the framework
of getting what has gotten them to that point already.
They get away from it, and then because of it,

(01:07:01):
those numbers dip. You don't make the shot that you're
not taking that risk doing, and then it just all
goes to hell. So you know, to your point, I
would like to see Shaden, make sure that you're executing
at a high percentage that shot that ten to six
feet to sixteen feet within and then expanding itself out
if you want to, because that's what they're forcing you
to do, and if you can make it great, but

(01:07:23):
impose your will to make sure that you get a
majority of those shots in before you just flank out
and start shooting threes and not making a high percentage
of it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Well, I think that's a great place to wrap. I mean,
that's our list between John Thin, Kamena, Jabari Smith, Benedic
Mather and DeAndre and Jovich and Hawkes Junior over in
Miami shading the Shark, and I actually left one guy off,
but you know, we're running out of time, so I'm
gonna call it kind of keep it pushing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Anyway, but he's on your hits Let us.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Know he's on your hit list, right, I got one
more and you know, maybe we got some conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Hey, this ain't gonna be the only time we do this.
This is actually pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
I like this, so we're gonna wind up having to
do this again. Listen, the Wire had five seasons. They
didn't just they didn't just have one wire.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
No, for sure, for sure, the iterations of this, but
we're trying to celebrate the game and celebrate players and
you know, look at look at these guys with an
open mind but a critical eye, you know, in terms
of like, hey, what is their path for success? So
let us know what your thoughts are or some guys
that you're waiting on, right, who are you waiting on?

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Hate now?

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Wish they would just do it already or don't you know?
And so that maybe their teams and then maybe even
fans can kind of get off the proverbial bandway agains
if there is such a thing for those guys so thin.
It was a fun one. Myg definitely enjoyed that and
hopefully we can have more conversations about what's happening on
the floor instead of what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Absolutely, once again, man, we appreciate you and yours are
hopping overboard with us this week for the baseline Calie Warnshaw,
we appreciate you guys, you know we do, and we'll
catch up with

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
You next time.