April 2, 2025 • 50 mins
Dive deep into the NBA's off-season autopsies with our latest episode of the 'Autopsy Report.' We dissect the shattered seasons of the Charlotte Hornets and Utah Jazz, examining what went wrong and forecasting their future outlook. From questionable roster decisions to missed opportunities, we leave no stone unturned. This week, we analyze the Hornets' struggles to build around their young core and the Jazz's dramatic shift in strategy. Get expert insights on NBA team analysis, player performance, rebuilding strategies, and NBA trade rumors. Whether you're a die-hard fan or a casual observer, our in-depth NBA season review provides a critical look at these teams' post-season post-mortems. Tune in for the ultimate NBA podcast experience, where we break down the basketball to the bone bristle. Don't miss this crucial episode for anyone following NBA news and NBA predictions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Free audio post production.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
By Alphonic dot Com. This is the Baseline discussing the
hot button topics of the nb A. Welcome everybody, your
tune to the baseline Cali one Shaw discussing the hot
button topics of the NBA. Man, we dressed to the
nines for this one.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You know it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Man, It's about that time. Of course, it is Sean I.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Man. We live for this.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Everybody lives for Halloween. No, no, no, no, this is
what we do. When we get around the springtime, you know,
things blossom and then when we do, we go and
we just kill ith time. It's time for us, man
to get right into it, man, it's that year. It's
that time of the year. You know, autopsy report time.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Man.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
We got to start talking about those teams that you know,
got to put them on the slab. Man. That's how
it is, man. And so but that let that that
be said that there's still other things that are happening,
because you know, hey, we still have NBA regular season
to deal with, about a handful of games left to
go before we start talking about seeding. So don't get
it twisted. We can multitask, we can handle the dead,
(01:09):
and we can also handle the living at the same time. Right,
let me go and rough out the Rick carpet to
my right hand man www dot Shaw Sports dot Net,
Big Unip andc my man, mister Warren Shaw wrapping out
of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. What's good, Doctor Shaw? Are you
ready for us to get into our favorite time of
the year.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I mean I appreciate the the spirit that we're
showing here on this Yeri's edition of the Autopsy Reports
on the Baseline MBA podcast. So you know you have
the full garbage if you're watching us on YouTube, you
know I'm in my surgical scrubs. You know, more stuff
to come when we get to the actual surgery part
of this episode. But really exciting times here on the baseline.
And yeah, right as we're getting into the playoffs. And
(01:46):
interestingly enough, I guess our first first topic of conversation
is technically somebody whose job is now dead. They called
him into the office and said, go ahead, your job
has a terminal illness. You're gonna have to get up
out of here. So rough rough time I'm going on
in Memphis, but we'll get to that here.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Talk about a hell of a residency. Oh by the
way I would like to say, well, well well done,
sir h. I don't know if you're paying homage to
Morris Chestnut and and Watson and everything, but you know
the black scrubs with the beard and everything. Man, you
got it going on, my friend.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
You got trying to be like you. I mean, so
like I'm I'm in I'm in there, like doing the work.
You're You're more like the medical administrator. I think at this.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Point, listen, I think I think that you should you
should rename yourself doctor Watson. I'm completely fine being renamed
as doctor kill Patience, but should we should rename you
as doctor Watson? Listen the lady, the ladies love you, Bro,
the ladies love me.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That's a conversation for the whole other podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Anyway, Man, we we got a great episode on tap
as we are mentioning before we're gonna do our Covenant
autopsy reports. You got two teams that we're going to
put on the slab, namely the Utah Jazz and the
Charlotte Hornet. So we can't wait to discuss what the
outlook is for them and what the future might actually
look like. Albeit though we talk about the dead very
(03:12):
seldomly do we talk. We see teams like raise up.
We're gonna try to give them a little bit of positivity.
We're gonna try to give them a little bit of
a heartbeat as we do our autopsy reports. As always,
we appreciate everybody hopping on boat with us this week.
Be sure to get the my Man Sports NBA get
at me a game face lead the show's Twitter handle
at NBA basline available and all the major platforms. You
can go to www dot the Baseline NBA dot com
(03:34):
to check out not just this episode, but also the
pluthora of episodes that we have dropped for your listening pleasure.
If you chatch us on the YouTube channel, and obviously
you do if you're loving our get up, you know
that we rocks with the nineteen Media Group family. You
can see the blue and white logo down in the
right hand corner. Be sure to check us out on
the YouTube channel, and you can also check out the
family a great content creators of the nineteen Media Group family.
(03:56):
Go to www dot nineteen Media Group. So before we
get into our coveted autopsy report, got to make sure
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Prize Picks run your game coming up. Sean, I dig
in through the related situation down in Memphis. You don't
want them to hear on the baseline. We're back. And
(06:06):
if everybody's been paying attention to what's going on in
the news of the Association, the latest happenings again, Listen,
the NBA man, don't sleep on the idea that everything
is done you know, in a specific space and time
or within a window. If it's about winning, if it's
(06:28):
about the money line, these executives and these teams, they
don't play. And so the latest and the happenings out
there in Memphis is the parting of ways, is the
best way to put it, between Taylor Jenkins, the head
coach of the Memphis Grizzlies, and the organization. And they're
doing this with about ten plus games or less, you know,
(06:53):
with the season remaining to go. The Memphis Grizzlies is
jostling for playoff position in the Western Conference, somewhere between
possibly a four seed and a six or seventh seed.
And look, I know people are eyes, you know, our
jaws dropped because of what happened to Luka Donkic. I
think I'm more floored by this than I am about
(07:14):
the Luka Donkins situation. I know that sounds kind of crazy,
but to me, I think it's just unprecedented and unheard
of to see that the Memphis Grizzlies felt it necessary
to move on from Jenkins given what Jenkins has given
this Memphis Grizzlies team. Given what he was dealt with
and where this team has positioned itself and where they
(07:37):
are and what's still left to go for them, very
odd situation. It definitely has me scratching my head. This
one is is a head scratcher.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, the Memphis faithful have been indicating and this is
who I've needed to lean on because you know, we're
not there right where, we don't live in the city,
were not avid followers of the team, and everything I've
heard is more or less as a result of Taylor
drinkins in some ways, pseudo losing the locker room eight
and eleven since the All Star Game, and a sub
(08:07):
below record, a sub five hundred record against teams with
a five hundred records some of the upper echelons in
the conferences or in the Association in general. Something has
kind of shifted. Their defense is not the same, and
while we've praised their depth and even some of their
player development, you know they're really struggling when in the
latter part of the season and both their offense and
defense have have had shifted. Part of that, too, is
(08:30):
like they brought in a whole new assistant coaching staff
over the off season to try to tweak some of
that offense. And then if you listen to ESPN, you know,
I want to give them their their credit, you know,
winhorses saying like in recent weeks after the struggles, Taylor
Jenkins started to regress back to what he felt was
a more comfortable offense as opposed to sticking to what
was an offense that was working with a lot of
(08:50):
a lot of ball movement. But John morn Is was
not having a very good season statistically speaking, so a
lot of people were trying to figure out what was
the issue there. But what it blowls down to you,
it doesn't seem like there's some of the fairest activity
from Taylor Jenkins side of the basketball side, you know,
like kind of Udoka style. This seems to strictly be
about basketball with very very peculiar timing obviously, you know,
(09:13):
nine games left at the time or the firing now
eight games left as a time of our recording, and
in the middle of a playoff unt where they're actually
trying to get home court advantage. Uh. Again, it's it's
hard and kind of confusing to kind of really put
this into words and understand exactly what the situation is.
But from every all, for all intents and purposes, this
is a basketball decision, although a peculiar one at this
(09:34):
point in the season.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Peculiar one. But I again, Shaw, I'm trying to rationalize
the good it will actually give you if you're if
what you're saying is by doing this now you are
going to raise those questions. And if you're not going
to raise those questions on Taylor Jenkins and you don't
speak to it magnanimously, then the next thing that you
(09:58):
start looking at is you start looking at the corp players.
You start looking at the star players and wondering if
whether or not they are the ones who had mutinous
tendencies in order to elevate this to the degree that
it's been elevated, because it's not like, Okay, you're getting
rid of Taylor Jenkins and his whole staff. You're getting
rid of Taylor Jenkins, but you're keeping on an interim
head coach, which, by the way, in TOMASI Salo has
(10:23):
great credentials, right, but he was not Taylor Jenkins' number
one guy. Right to your point earlier, that staff had
been replaced, and I don't know how much, say Taylor
Jenkins really had on the kind of people that he
wanted as part of that staff, and so to me,
I think it raises more questions about the organization if
(10:45):
we're really trying to dig into this, and what their
ulterior motives are and what the ultimate agenda is supposed
to be. Now whether or not this becomes a question
of are we trying to satisfy John Morant. Let's also
keep in mind that some of the problems the organization,
some of the problems that we're seeing from John Moran,
are not problems that I think the organization are going
(11:06):
to be able to fix. This is something that John
Morant has to fix, and whether or not that's within
himself or whether or not that's within his game and
the mechanics, he's got to figure that part of it out,
and he's got to be able to ingratiate himself where
he's elevating that team. I think it's great given the
circumstances of what has happened to him in the last
year and a half that he's in the position that
(11:28):
he's in. He's not been someone who's made a fuss
about his struggles he's not put it on anything, and
I think he's even realistic that he needs another year
or so before we start talking about MVP John Morant
like we did a couple of years ago. But in
the meantime, this is why I praise a guy like
Taylor Jenkins, because he knew that he wasn't getting all
John Morant, you know. And so to me, I'm now
(11:51):
questioning the organization a whole lot more than I'm questioning
whether or not. And I'm not saying that I'm a
complete fan of Taylor Jenkins. Taylor Jenkins has had you know,
he has his weakness. But for all intense purposes, this
Memphis Grizzlies team, in my opinion, I think overachieved. I
did not see them being a top five seed. I
saw them maybe being a playing worthy situation. And given
(12:14):
the struggles that some of these other Western Conference teams
who exceeded last year's expectations, I thought would have at
least improved.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
They have not.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So that is given a window for the Memphis Grizzlies
to kind of walk themselves into a better situation, a
better place, but none to the degree that you're gonna
let go the head coach who got you at least
a above five hundred regular season at the very least,
given what the circumstances were at the beginning of the
year and the injuries that you suffered throughout the course
of the season.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I mean, we need to have more information. So
I think it's where, you know, we can't have a
long conversation on it because there's just not enough information
out right now, and I.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Don't even find out the truth until the end of
the season. I think things will start to come out after.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Well, I'll say a couple of things, right, So they did.
Taylor Jenkins is obviously the headline because he's a head coach,
but they fired Patrick Andrews, Patrick Saint Andrews and Noel
la Roche as well too, So those guys were a
part of his assistant coaching staff. So they're all gone.
But the majority, I guess of the new folks that
were brought in have in essence kind of state my
(13:17):
only there's so many thoughts here swirling, and so I
want to be as concise as possible. When you talk
about Taylor Jenkins having to navigate a situation, you know,
I think about Doc Rivers, you know, back with the
Clippers and some of the things that he had to
deal with and different. But again this is kind of
like non basketball related stuff that you're having to manage,
and the stuff with John Moran and you know it,
(13:39):
and the firearms and so forth and so forth, and
then all the injuries that Taylor Jenkins had to manage,
Like I don't think he could have really done a
better job than he did, you know that in that
year and a half two year situation. Now again all
the injuries again, the injuries to job this year as
well too, and still has his team fighting for a
top you know, homeport advantage in the first round. Like
it's it's a little you know. But from the Grizzlies
(14:02):
standpoint for them, I feel like they're like, well, we
can't waste time. If we feel like we can really
make some semblance of a run this year, we need
to do it with a guy who we feel is
going to be here long term. And so, while peculiar
at best, you know, to make this decision now, they
feel like they clearly must feel like, hey, we have
(14:23):
runway to be successful with this roster as currently constructed.
We need the right leadership in place to try to
extrapolate everything we possibly can out of that as and
as macurial as all that is. You know, the day
after Jenkins is fired, John Moractley comes back, you know,
after a six game absence as well too, in a
losing effort. But he played well. I don't know, it's
(14:43):
not it's not great vibes out there in Memphis. But
we'll see what Thomas is able to do with the
rest of this roster as they fight for playoff contention,
playoff home court advantage more more and more appropriately, and
see where that lands them over the course of this playoffs.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Listen, man, I appreciate how you brought up Doc Rivers,
but why don't we just keep it in house. Look,
let's go back and look at the record of how
the Memphis Grizzlies organization has handled their previous head coaches.
And I'll go as far back as to hot Lionel Hollins, Right,
you can make the argument how they handled him and
then had Dave Yeger come in, and then after Dave
(15:17):
Yeger you had Fizzdale and then you know, now you
have Jenkins. And let's keep in mind, Jenkins holds the
Memphis Grizzlies record for the most wins as a head
coach for the Grizzlies. Right, So, I'm just looking at
this and again, if people are pre paying attention to
the lineage and how this basketball team has evolved and
(15:39):
what has evolved the players and everything like that, this
is not something that's coming out of thin air. There's
a lot more to this, Shaw, and I agree with you.
Hopefully we will be able to get more to that
and we can speak a little bit more to that. Again,
I'm not speaking out of turn. I don't want to
make it seem like, oh, you know, I hate the
Grizzlies or I think that there's a problem with it.
What I'm just saying is is that it's very, very
(16:00):
odd that you choose to do this at this very
moment in time and not think that it's going to
raise red flags either as an organization or even those
who are considered stars a part of that organization. Because
somebody is gonna have to speak to it. That's how
the media operates. And so I feel bad for the
Desmond Banes, the Jaron Jackson junior juniors, and the Jah
(16:25):
Morants because the camera is gonna be in front of
them if they don't go out and perform, meaning they
don't go out and have a successful first round of
the playoffs if they stay within the playoff seating, or
if they have to actually be in the play in
situation and they get ousted or even get embarrassed, people
are gonna look back to this situation and say, what
of it? So interesting stuff, There so more to come,
(16:48):
but definitely great conversation to be had. And unfortunately, again,
you know, it just sucks because Taylor Jenkins really is
a good coach and I'm sure he's gonna find a
landing spot, you know, when this offseason takes place, but
wants one.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
He could find one. He can get out of job
the bar if he wanted one, So yeah, you know again,
he'll probably take some time here. But this is not
a guy who we've seen the last of in any
stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely your tune to the baseline. Cali warn Shaw discussing
the hot button topics of the NBA coming up. It's
that time, baby, time for us to put a team
on the slab and get get into our coveted autopsy report.
Doctor Watson, doctor kill patients. You don't want to miss
it here on the baseline. We are back, Cali Warrenshaw
(17:38):
baseline NBA podcast. Time for us to get into our
coveted autopsy report. Man, mister Shaw's right here, he got
the scalpel ready. Time to open up a team Muller here,
So who we got on the slab Shaw, Let's talk
about the Charlotte Hornets. Another disappointing season for Charlotte. And
(17:58):
I think the reason why I want to use the
word disappointing is because it's not that when in the
in in our predictions we had any inclination to the
Charlotte Hornets we're gonna catapult themselves into any kind of
playing situation. You had to wonder with the way that
this team again is structured, that the onus is going
(18:19):
to be on the cleverness of Charles Lee in his
first year as a head coach to kind of navigate
and figure out a way to incorporate hopefully a healthy
Lamello Ball, hopefully a healthy Brandon Miller, Michale Britge, I'm
not Pkale Bridges. Which other Bridges are we talking about,
(18:39):
Sir Miles Miles Bridges, There you go, Jesus em and
M's but Miles Bridges. So it's just it's interesting, we
didn't have any high expectations for this team. But it
is somewhat disappointing sew because again we are faced with
that age old question when it comes to you know,
(19:01):
LaMelo Ball, can he stay healthy for a duration of
an NBA season And because now again his season has
had to abruptly end due to sustained injuries. You know,
the Charlotte Hornets I don't think will find themselves in
any meaningful space years to come until they can figure
(19:25):
out a way to construct a roster that has the
level of depth when you recognize that one of your
top tier players is only going to be available for
half of the games if you're lucky, and where that
chemistry lies with the rest of the other core players.
So a lot of questions to speak of when we're
talking about the Charlotte Hornets. But this is why, you know,
(19:47):
I think of the word disappointment because it just doesn't
feel like they can ever rise up out of the
grave with some sembilance of being an able body team
to be competitive any longer.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I think your spot on. I also still think there's
aspect of the right players and as to give you
whatever runway you're trying to, you know, take off from
the Hornets. I don't think even with Lemel, they're not
a good basketball team. Right there were sixteen thirty one
with him in the forty seven games he played this
year before shutting it down as we record, That means
(20:21):
they were two and twenty four when he didn't play.
So did he impact winning, sure, but it was still
well below well below you know, five hundred or at
the point with Ablow was not even about the injuries.
I think it's some people don't think he's a serious
basketball player. They're starting to feel like this is an
empty calories type of dude that you're going to commit
(20:41):
forty five where you have already signed the contract, so
forty five to fifty million dollars a year, And is
he the person that can get to you to the
next level? You know, as you tried to build around him,
is he somebody you bowled around or is he a
piece of the puzzle? And right now it would seem
more like he could. Potendi he'd be a piece of
the puzzle, but he's not the building block. Because the statistics,
while inflated, they come at the expense of sometimes alienating
(21:05):
some of his teammates. As he's playing a lot of
one on one and shooting the most wildest and ridiculous shots.
You could say, well, there's nobody else there to take shots.
And maybe maybe that's true, especially after Brendon Miller went
down this year. But I'm not convinced that LaMelo is
the guy for this Hornets team. Charles Lee's Charles Lee.
The company has a lot to figure out when it
comes to that, but I'd be surprised. I wouldn't be
(21:27):
surprised if they at least Field offers, you know, when
it comes to trades, he and Miles Bridges to figure
that out. I don't think they're going to move on
from Brendon Miller. And anyway, they also have their number
six pick to John Salon. You know, he started getting
a little bit of run here now too, so you know,
another one of the French you know connections if you
are kind of coming into the space, hasn't really looked
like much. Has had a couple of you know moments
(21:47):
here this season where you know, he's shot the three ball.
Well he's got decent size, But I don't know if
that's the route they want to go building around Miller,
Salon and Ball and Mark Williams who they tried to trade,
you know, and now he's back. So I have nothing
but questions about this Horners team I think currently. But
I think a lot of it starts with what the
what the front office wants to do with LaMelo making
(22:10):
that decision first and foremost? Okay, is he our guy?
And now if we get you know, a top three,
top five draft pick this year? What what? What is
truly the core of our organization? And that's what needs
to be figured out first and foremost.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Shaw I, I don't know what you do with this situation, right.
What I can say is, if let's say, for example,
you tell me that that LaMelo Ball is our guy,
what are you actually telling Brandon Miller? I mean, if
you really think about it, Brandon Miller as a score
(22:43):
and really as a young upstarting player, has received and
garnered a lot more attention and respect in his in
that in that elk, in that community, then I think
people are giving credit for that. Does that necessarily make
him the man? See? He doesn't. He doesn't zued the
star power like the Ball family, right, and like LaMelo
(23:04):
Ball does in many regards. LaMelo Ball actually is the
one in which his basketball game has translated more to
the excitement factor of why we were all eyes on
the Ball family, Lonzo, Him, Leangelo, all of these cats, right,
and I don't know how many more down down the
chain is probably going to come up to come into
the NBA. But the bigger problem than I think you
(23:28):
have is to Charlotte Hornet, is you have to prioritize
what is it that you want your star player to reflect. Right.
I'll give you a perfect example, because I think at
some point we're going to have this question when we
talk about the Washington Wizards, because they're eventually going to
get put on this slab very soon. Right. And it's
(23:49):
the question that I think a lot of people are
asking about the kind of guys that you're saying should
be the face of an organization. You can have an
exciting basketball player. He doesn't have to consume though, the
ideolo and the philosophy of how a team operates within
the system. I think that if you're Charles Lee, you
work a lot more with the guy like Brandon Miller,
because Brandon Miller has at least played some form of
(24:12):
organized basketball when he came out of Alabama, and you
see that in how he carries himself and how he executes.
I think you also have the same question. You have
a little bit of the same questions with Miles Bridges,
But with Bridges, again, he played in a structured level
of basketball that's allowed you to be able to see
some kind of success in what he does on the
basketball court. Whether or not that translates to collectively to
(24:34):
Charlotte Hornets having some corner pieces to work with, I
think you have to shift again the narrative on whether
or not, to your point, we should be focusing on
do we build around LaMelo ball. Maybe let's not even
worry about saying whether or not we're building around LaMelo ball,
but building around a successful group of guys that know
how to play within the system that Charles Lee wants
(24:57):
to implement, and he leaning on those guys to go
out there and executing it the way it needs to
be executed. I think to me that would be a
good start for the Charlotte Hornets because, to your point,
if the focus and the question still becomes what do
we do with the LaMelo ball, they are going to
be doing for failure, regardless of whether or not they're
planning to keep or look to move him. I think
the focal point is really understanding what Charles Lee really
(25:19):
wants to see and really working with the guys who
are going out and executing his vision of what we
want to see from the Charlotte Hornets moving forward.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, I mean the vision is a very very you know,
I think interesting word, especially when it comes to first
year head coaches and then how much time are you
going to give them to be able to impact that
vision create a culture for whatever route you're ultimately trying
to go, you know. But Charlotte is a team that's
in a state of flox. The new organization, I mean,
new management, you know, kind of at the top, new ownership,
(25:50):
et cetera, et cetera, new coach here now, and so
there's just questions, nothing but questions about what this Hornet
team is trying to do. Yes, they've had a lot
of injuries. I mean, Grant Williams went down with an injury.
Trade Man went down with an injury, and I don't
know that that gets him to a point where they
would have been, you know, hunting around the play in situation.
But they now, they're just kind of operating the great unknown,
like just didn't have a healthy roster inclusive of Brandon Miller,
(26:13):
inclusive over LaMelo ball Miles Bridges even this time this year.
So if you get those guys to play sixty five
seventy games kind of each then maybe you have something
that is maybe a little bit more competitive and the
league get another year as well too to implement some
sort of styles. So, you know, I don't want to
let me from what I've said at hold on, I'm
just finished skin. I don't want to flip flop from
what I said previously. But I think you know, even
(26:36):
as we're talking it through, if if if you're gonna say, hey, no, what,
we're not ready to uh cut ourselves and cut our
ties from LaMelo ball just yet, then is it now
adding that additional draft back in with this roster and
then hoping and again really just hoping that this team
stays healthy or are you trying to do more, uh
(26:57):
just larger changes here to make the team more In
the mindset of what you might think Charles Lee is
looking for this rosh of Paltima, maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Do you think the Charlotte Hornets have a long leash
for Charles Lee. I don't want the focal point to
be about the head coach, But what I'm saying is
to your point, this is not gonna be a two
year turnaround project, even with LaMelo Ball, because I think
(27:25):
we are we're saying, and we both agree, even with
LaMelo Ball, the upside of success for the Charlotte Hornets
will not happen in a year or two. What you
can hope for is that if he's healthy enough, he
can be productive. But I think you have to lean
more in what is Charles Lee gonna get out of
some of these other players. And here's the other thing
(27:47):
as well to Shaw, because I do find it interesting
that they weren't able to get rid of Mark Williams,
but their intent was to get rid of both Mark
Williams and Nick Richards. They were successful in moving on
from Nick Richards. Right, at what point do you have
to say start looking at the group of players that
you are bringing in, whether it's to draft or whether
you're pulling them in for free agency or from some
of these nominal trade you're doing, and you're actually settling
(28:10):
in that coach leeue will extrapulate from these guys a
level of professionalism and be able to contribute, whether it's
role affiliated or you find a diamond in the rough.
How how you know do you see yourself giving enough
time for him to be able to do something like that,
because I can at least say that we just finished
(28:31):
talking about a guy like Taylor Jenkins. He was able
to do that, And we can't say that for a
lot of head coaches because to their demise, they probably
won't be coaching much longer. If you still see the
same old, same old, from the way that they operate,
the way that they handle things, and the way that
they philosophizes, how they handle their bench and their role players,
and their development of some of these other guys.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, I mean that would be wild to me. You know,
if they were to say, all right, hey, kind of
a one and done situation, especially for our first year,
you know, in the so I think you know there's
going to be some time here, you know, I'd say
at least, you know, a three to four year run
and they're trying to figure it out. But again, who
are the players on the roster that you're having him
build and try to and establish some someone's culture around
(29:13):
So for me, like when you have building blocks in
this well, I use that term loosely. If you have
potential building blocks in LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller, you
can kind of feel like, okay, you know, just how
how good are they are? These? Again? Are these yesterday
average twenty points per game? You know, Bridges even average
twenty points per game, but that's because multiple guys were out,
(29:34):
and there's a lot of overlapping when guys were out,
So then you know, the usage rate change, you know,
in various times throughout the course of the season to
kind of balance out where you have three twenty point
per game scorers. I don't know if you really have
three twenty more game scorers on this team. And I
don't know if Myles Bridges is somebody that you're trying
to think about as a building block. But with Wall
and Miller, you know, it's it's intoxicating enough because they're
also young, twenty two and twenty three years old respectively.
(29:56):
You know you don't want a punt. But I don't know.
I I think, you know, there's some people in Charlotte
would probably say, hey, I've seen enough of LaMelo Show
to know that this isn't the guy. But what are
you going to go out there and get, especially at
the price tag that you've resigned him for here now
you know, and yeah, you'll have to match those salaries.
But will somebody try to make LaMelo the recognition project?
I don't know if it's even a risk worth taking
(30:17):
for Charlotte, but I know that they they realize nothing
is established in a space where they want this to be.
They're not a good defense, They're not a good offense,
or not good at points in the paint. They're you know,
they're a okay free throw shooting team, whatever, they're not
a good three point shooting team. Like, there's nothing that
can't be improved in any capacity. So all things need
to be on the table when it comes to this
(30:37):
Charlotte Hornets team for next year.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, look, the Charlotte Hornets as a as a team collectively,
you got to hope that something, something goes their way.
And I want it to be something that does not
have to be hyper focused on because I think that's
what does them in what that's what does them wrong.
(31:00):
I think they're praying for this level of elevated success
to happen through LaMelo Ball, and I think to your point,
and we're going all the way back to what we've
been saying in the beginning, LaMelo Ball doesn't seem just
doesn't seem to be that guy. I think there are
far more other interests out there that is certainly has
his intent is up that really doesn't have anything much
(31:22):
to do with the success of basketball. Now, maybe the
success of branding and maybe the success of whatever that
stuff is seems to be what's prevalent. I'm not calling
them out or nothing like that, but what I'm saying
is it's the facts, it's the truth. You know, we
may have had that same kind of conversation with a
couple of other players who we've had the opportunity to
see come across and that we're also seeing out there
(31:43):
playing basketball as we speak right now, and it will
only be available for so long because in Charlotte, Listen,
Queen City and everything like that, a lot going on
and you can very easily elevate your brand, but at
some point it still has to come back to that
core part of why you're even in the NBA, down
to winning, and at some point there's got to be
(32:03):
accountability being held. You can get rid of all of
the head coaches. You can get rid of all of
the quote unquote B players, see tier players, all of them.
It's still gonna come down to the guys that you
paid a ton of money for to go out and
play at a very very high level. And if you're
not gonna be available, and you're not gonna be able
to see that your stats, of your numbers are actually
(32:24):
equating to anything successful. At some point a change is
on the is on the horizon your tunes to the
baseline Calie warren Shaw discussing the hot button topics of
the NBA coming up. It's not for us to put
the Utah Jazz on the slab. Another sad note, Man
gotta sit there and gotta emmy out on the on
(32:45):
the on the Utah Jazz. But that's okay. Sad songs
can be played sometimes. We'll hopefully try to play a
more more mellow tune for them when we autop see them.
You don't want to miss it here on the baseline,
we are back, Calie Warrenshaw, based on NBA podcasts and
(33:09):
time for us to continue our covet at autopsy report.
Next on the slab we have is the Utah Jazz.
It's inexplicable to me, Shaw when I think about the
Utah Jazz, because a couple of years ago, maybe we
were talking about how, where, where what did Danny Ainge
in his first year as a you know, president of
basketball operations and you know, kind of making all of
(33:32):
these flywire decisions, and this team literally like overachieved and
was in the conversation of the playoffs, and then a
couple of injuries happened, and all of a sudden, it's
just all falling apart to the to the extent that
like they're playing like among as one of the worst
teams in basketball. Luckily they're not, but it's it's still
(33:55):
a far cry from because what it felt like was
just maybe a year and a half ago. Two years
feels like forever. When we're talking about, you know, the
drop off for the Utah Jazz, it's inexplicable that we
have to be putting them on the slab because after
the Donovan Mitchell trade and the fresh restart, they seem
to turn things around pretty quickly with the assets they've required,
(34:17):
and then now we've seen a stagnation of this team's
not just success but also the stagnation of these teams development,
and it's really hard to put a finger on where
they're going to be going, you know, especially after another
disappointing season.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, make no mistake about this, Utah Jazz have decided
that they wanted to be bad. So they have played
and toyed with their lineups to the point where, you know,
if the league really wanted to investigate, I think they could,
and they have been asked, you know, and I think
fine for sitting players or resting players, you know, against
what would be competition and rules, so to speak. So
(34:52):
the Jazz are tanking and then there's no no two
ways about it. And I think it's one of those
situations that we said even a couple of years ago,
where Will Hard as a head coach is a good
coach kind of despite what the talent on the floor
might ultimately be. So we need to go ahead and
hinder Will a little further by just taking some of
this talent away or only having certain guys available. I
(35:13):
think at times Marketon has had a very very rough
and up and down year, definitely regressed back to I
think his Chicago forum as opposed to the Utah forum
that we've seen over the last two years, but only
played forty seven games. So you know, how legitimate were
the injuries that he had all year long? You know,
could he have played through some of these things if
they were a more competitive team, potentially, but we don't
(35:36):
know that. I think I told you post December, I
was kind of ear hustling, you know what, the NBA
G League showcase in Orlando, and I heard, you know,
a pretty well connected reporter talking to another pretty well
connected reporter that hey, you know, Hardy and Custler aren't
like the best of friends, Like Hardy just doesn't really
rock with Customer like that. So there's times Custler hasn't played,
(35:58):
you know, from multiple stretches over the course of the year.
And you know, while he's had a decent year, averaging
a double double, and I think, is you know, one
of the month leader, if not the league leader in blocks?
You know, there's there's that aspect. And his name has
been bantered about in trade rumors as well. So for me,
if you don't really sure what marketing is, yes, you
resigned him, so they didn't trade him, but I think
his name is going to come up very, very heavily
(36:19):
I think when it comes to trade potential going into
the draft and obviously into the summer as well, if
you don't like Kessler, then there's not And again Kesler's
not really a building block. But then there's really no
young talent here that I think is like, hey, you
know what, this is a guy you don't have the guy.
If market is not it, then they don't have it
on this roster. And that's not Keyshan, sorry, Kante George,
it's not Isaiah Collier as none of those guys. So
(36:41):
I think Utah is really really kind of struggling here
and wants to be a top two or top three
draft pick this year where they can get the guy
that they can build around. Well.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Okay, so I've I've followed a few games of the
of the Utah Jazz. I've seen a vast improvement in
Kante George. I think it was a question of whether
or not he is just going to be able to
get minutes because again, you look at that roster. That
roster is just freaking flooded with all kinds of guards, right,
and I think it would have it would have done
(37:10):
the Jazz well to you know, move a couple of
those guys on if you really wanted to find out,
you know, whether or not Collier and and Keyante George
you know, couldn't be your back court of the future
if you clearly were not sold on Colin Sexton, uh,
you know as being the back court, you know, leader
(37:31):
for the team, right And I think this has been
the problem with the Utah Jashaw they have just Yeah,
it reminds me a little bit like what we saw
with the Orlando Magic. Now kudos, because I think if
you're Jamal Mosley right of the Orlando Magic, you had
to establish a legitimate footprint. Maybe that's what we're waiting
(37:53):
for in will Hardy. But but if there's more conversations
about who you're not vibing with and who you're not
rocking with than actually having an identity in place, about
what kind of culture you're trying to build, what kind
of you know, system you're trying to implement in place,
and kind of profiling the players who get it to
go out there and execute it regardless of the wins
and losses. And we're still in that same space where
(38:16):
it's like the Bermuda triangle, right, like we have no
idea we can go in a certain direction, but we
really have no certainty where that direction is going to
take us. And I feel like that doesn't help a
guy like Will Hardy, because to your point, Will Hardy
does have credibility. He is a good coach. But if
you're not making an imprint, especially with the bad team
(38:36):
that you kind of have with the Utah Jazz, it's
an either or proposition. No matter what Danny Age does.
He can get rid of all of these players, but
eventually he's gonna have to get rid of Will Hardy,
you know, And that, to me, I think is the
disappointing part of it is that I'm waiting to see
what kind of imprint Hardy is supposed to have on
this team. It shouldn't be that we're having this conversation,
(38:57):
especially if the team sucks. I get it, sixteen wins,
probably will wind up having the worst record, but I'm
supposed to see at least something good come from all
of that, And I think that's where the message gets muddled.
And I think that's where you tread tread very carefully,
not us, But I'm just saying, you know, for people
(39:17):
who are trying to get an idea about what's going
on with the Utah Jazz. We have to tread a
little bit carefully because I'm now start wondering. I'm starting
to wonder, like, did Danny Ainge really want Will Hardy
to coach this team to begin with? You know what
I'm saying, like, if your overall plan was that you
were trying to tank to get quote unquote the Cooper Flag,
(39:37):
the generational player, or whatever the case may be, Let's
remember too, Cooper Plagg has got to be sold that
the coach that I'm gonna be playing for for the
next three or four years is gonna have my best
interest at heart. And whenever you go and you get
other players to come play for me, these are guys
that are, like, you know what I'm saying, I'm just
saying in general, like you're you're gonna get a lottery guy.
You're gonna get a guy. You want to make sure
(39:57):
that that guy's bought into the fact that the coach
that they've got in place, Danny Ainge's got confidence in,
and that Will Hardy's got confidence in Danny Ainge and
so forth and so on.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Well, Yeah, don't I don't know that I am as
concerned about the age and Hardy connection as I am
about the overall roster construction, short term and long term
and who will be here. So I think those guys,
I don't say lockstep, but I think there's some sort
of synergy Hardy's again, Hardy might be better than even
whatever poultry roster Age just trying to put out there.
(40:28):
So Angel like, all right, we got to strip it
down even further. That's why I'm a little surprised that
they weren't more active, or maybe they tried, but they didn't,
you know, trade Jordan Clarkson or Collin Sexton or John Collins,
all the names we hear every single year are going
to get moved. They didn't move any of those guys.
I will say, all those guys have contracts at end
after next season, so they can utilize those expiring deals.
(40:48):
I think, you know, as salary filler, you know, for
potential deals or trying. I don't think you're gonna get
a whole lot of draft equity for some of those guys.
But at the end of the day, they know after
end of next year, they're gonna be basically resetting the
overall books again. So I can't imagine that they wouldn't
be in the same situation. Like I mean, I would
expect the Utah Jazz to being very much here again
next year, even with whatever what looks like to be
(41:10):
a top two or three pick in this year's upcoming draft.
And even if to keep Marketing, which again I think
they might be, it might be kind of foolish in
essence to do because Marketing is already is already twenty seven,
so he's entering truly the prime of his career. So
what does he give you alongside Dylan Harper or Cooper
of Flag right now? Like, I don't know, I think
other than taking away touches from somebody who you're also
(41:32):
ultimately trying to develop when you get one of those guys.
So to me, I think the Jazz are looking to
press reset immediately. I think Will Hardy and Danny Aingel
on board with what that situation is. And this roster,
I mean, it has Cody Williams on it as well too,
and you know they've maybe they struck a little bit
of gold and Kyle Flapowski or whatever, and you know, again,
nice nice guys, nice rotational pieces per se, but you
know they're not the development they're not the franchise building
(41:54):
guys here, and that's what they're looking to try to
do in this year's draft. So to me, look for
you talk to completely reset this row. Sure, going into
the summer with maybe a couple of veterans that they
can keep, you know, just for salary because they got
to have you know, the minimum salary and necessar to
start of the season. But maybe some of those guys
you know, will get moved on as we get to
next year's trade deadline as well too.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
All right, I want to ask you to confidence uh
the confidence question, right, So on a scale of one
to five, how much confidence do you have in Kessler
still being a utah jazz? Uh, I need no confidence
five being utmost confident.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with two. I mean,
you know, the easiest, like, oh, going to three, But
you know, I'm going to go with what I heard,
per se and you know what I've seen to some
degree as well. And you know they have an opportunity
to move him. I think they they will because.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
If you think they'll move if you think they'll move on,
you think they'll move him more so than prioritizing re
signing or redoing anything with market it say that again,
do you What I'm saying is is do you think
that the priority that the priority would be to keep
Kessler move on from marketing or vice versa.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
I think you'd probably want to clear your books. So
I think if you find a if you find a
taker from marketing, you probably do that because they've already
resigned marketing, and they did that at the end last
part of the summer, which precluded him for being able
to be traded, you know, by the deadline, So you know,
before you have to end up having to pay Kessler,
maybe you try to move them move on from him
before you even have to commit money in essence for
(43:33):
whatever reason, because then you don't want to lose them
for nothing as well. But I think both of those
guys are are Hey. You know, I won't say their
days are numbered in Utah. I don't have any intel
that's saying that specifically, other than the fact that I
think Kessler's attitude or I shouldn't say his attitude whatever,
something needs to change. I think from the synergy with
he and Will Hardy, you know, if others are to
(43:54):
be believed that you know, hey, customer can be their
long term, but marketing, I just don't think it makes
a lot of sense, especially if you get Cooper Flag
like I I, well, yeah, you can say that's too
long thing sided together, but it's it's I think that's
my point. Whoever be the man as opposed to having
somebody who's gonna average, you know, twenty five a game,
potentially in lower marketing.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, I think to me that's part of where I
was kind of curious about this Shaw. It's like, are
you preparing yourself to open up this idea that you
are going to go after or be in a position
to get a guy like Cooper Flag? You know, if
Cooper Flag wherever he you know, wherever the Jazz sit
(44:37):
in the drafting position sort to speak, are you still
determined to say, we're going to go back to the
draft to find the future of the foundation of this
organization and listen, that may not necessarily just be a reset,
that could actually just be a mindset of which Danny
Ainge truly believes is the best path forward for the
(44:59):
Utah Jazz to replenish and rebuild and bring back the
glory of what made the Utah Jazz as successful as
they had been during the nineteen the late nineteen eighties,
going into the nineties and early two thousands, they had
core players, guys that they brought in from the draft,
developed up, came in, took over and did what they
(45:20):
were doing, even if it was for a short stint,
if it was within a three to five year window,
you know, whatever the case may be. I feel like
maybe that is what's best suited for the Utah Jazz.
The unfortunate part is is I think they have missed
on those type of players, and they went and they
took a shot in the dark and bringing in marketing in,
which again it surprises me because we saw a different
(45:40):
side of market in coming over from the Bulls to
the Utah Jazz and ultimately showing us that he can
be an aggressive score. He could be a you know,
a I want to say, not top tier, but he
could definitely be a middle tier type score. He kind
of be your Jaron Jackson junior guy two a kind
of guy if you wanted him to. I think he
has that kind of versatility. It's just the other aspects
(46:03):
of his game you want to see more aggressiveness with,
and I think that comes with pairing him with someone
that can show you that level of aggression that certainly
wasn't going to be the case with Kessler, you know
what I'm saying. So it'll be interesting to see what
the Utah Jazz chooses to do moving forward.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Shaw.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
But I think to your point, whatever whatever player you get,
that's why I go back to the hearty thing, because
I feel like I want to see the imprint of
him having to influence on whoever their cornerstone player is
going to be, and how that how that permeates through
the other guys that Danny Age chooses to bring on
the roster, because I don't think Danny Age is going
to find a dude like that, whether it be free
(46:39):
agency or he's gonna pull some dude like that, you know,
from off the street, so to speak. I really think
it's going to have to be homegrown.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, I mean, and they're not a free agent destination,
so like they know they're gonna have to do this
by by trade. And I don't want to go so
far as to say where I feel like, okay, well,
where they get thought in the lottery will determine their future,
but in some ways it could at least help guide
some of their short term future because the top of
the draft is kind of garden wing heavy flag you
(47:08):
think is more kind of a three and a four
type of situation. But you know, a Spelly and others
are Delar Harper, like those are guards and two guards
if you will, so I don't think they're set at
that position. So they end up with one of those
guys as opposed to you know, Cooper Flag specifically where
there could be some duplicity with what Marktin is currently doing.
Then you know, you can see the Keynte Georgia is
the colin sectons of you if you will, to maybe
(47:29):
those guys get moved on from because now you have
you know, an Ace Bailey or Dylan Harper kind of
in one of those spots. Like I don't know, I
think some of that is going to be determined. But
for me, I think Utah's plan is definitely try to
be bad for the next next year as well, especially
with those expirings as I said, and then you'll start
to see what the future and the foundation of this
roster is with I think Will Hardy with you know,
(47:51):
pretty pretty long leased there with Danny Age as well too.
In Utah.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Good stuff, man, good stuff. Not a bad start to
our autopsy.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Kept light, I mean, and these are teams that are listen,
they've been dead a long time, you know, like you know,
they've they've been sleep walking, walking dead through the rest
of this regular season anyways.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
So yeah, every now and again, then we just have
to change. We have to update the soil. We just
gotta you know what I'm saying, got to make sure
the soil is fresh man, you got you know what
I'm saying. We gotta figure out a way to get
them planted for that.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I think at the end of the day, we it's
hard with these teams, but it's also easy at the
same time because there's not so much there where you
feel like, okay, where they're like they're like one one one,
you know, one person, one player away, Like they're very
far off where whatever that next step is for them
in terms of even like playing contention, like they're so
far away from that. So literally everything is on the table,
(48:45):
like literally everything. They're not good offensive, they're not good defensively, like,
you know, the only thing you can say, I think
with both of these situations in Charlotte and in Utah
is that you have young head coaches that so young
in ages, but I think, well, it's actually pretty young
head coach himself in terms of age, but you know,
in experience head coaches who are hey trying to impact
their way and create a culture for both of these
teams and these rosters that will get them to that
(49:07):
next step, you know, proverbally so, so shout out to
the Hornets and Jazz. You know, it's been fun for
some watching you with the season. It's been really interesting
to watch the Tank at play, especially in the case
of Utah where the Tank was on very.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Very early absolutely great, great stuff as always, and we
definitely want to hear from y'all. What are your thoughts
about the Charlotte Hornets and the Utah Jazz and what
their future is going to possibly look like. Should we
continue to keep burying them or is there hope for
us to resuscitate these two franchises back into the relevancy
of the NBA. Definitely want to hear from your thoughts
(49:42):
on that path forward for the baseline. Callie warren Shaw,
we appreciate you guys, you know we do, and we'll
catch up with you next time.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
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Speaker 2 (50:02):
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Speaker 2 (00:04):
By Alphonic dot Com. This is the Baseline discussing the
hot button topics of the nb A. Welcome everybody, your
tune to the baseline Cali one Shaw discussing the hot
button topics of the NBA. Man, we dressed to the
nines for this one.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You know it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Man, It's about that time. Of course, it is Sean I.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Man. We live for this.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Everybody lives for Halloween. No, no, no, no, this is
what we do. When we get around the springtime, you know,
things blossom and then when we do, we go and
we just kill ith time. It's time for us, man
to get right into it, man, it's that year. It's
that time of the year. You know, autopsy report time.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Man.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
We got to start talking about those teams that you know,
got to put them on the slab. Man. That's how
it is, man. And so but that let that that
be said that there's still other things that are happening,
because you know, hey, we still have NBA regular season
to deal with, about a handful of games left to
go before we start talking about seeding. So don't get
it twisted. We can multitask, we can handle the dead,
(01:09):
and we can also handle the living at the same time. Right,
let me go and rough out the Rick carpet to
my right hand man www dot Shaw Sports dot Net,
Big Unip andc my man, mister Warren Shaw wrapping out
of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. What's good, Doctor Shaw? Are you
ready for us to get into our favorite time of
the year.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I mean I appreciate the the spirit that we're
showing here on this Yeri's edition of the Autopsy Reports
on the Baseline MBA podcast. So you know you have
the full garbage if you're watching us on YouTube, you
know I'm in my surgical scrubs. You know, more stuff
to come when we get to the actual surgery part
of this episode. But really exciting times here on the baseline.
And yeah, right as we're getting into the playoffs. And
(01:46):
interestingly enough, I guess our first first topic of conversation
is technically somebody whose job is now dead. They called
him into the office and said, go ahead, your job
has a terminal illness. You're gonna have to get up
out of here. So rough rough time I'm going on
in Memphis, but we'll get to that here.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Talk about a hell of a residency. Oh by the
way I would like to say, well, well well done,
sir h. I don't know if you're paying homage to
Morris Chestnut and and Watson and everything, but you know
the black scrubs with the beard and everything. Man, you
got it going on, my friend.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
You got trying to be like you. I mean, so
like I'm I'm in I'm in there, like doing the work.
You're You're more like the medical administrator. I think at this.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Point, listen, I think I think that you should you
should rename yourself doctor Watson. I'm completely fine being renamed
as doctor kill Patience, but should we should rename you
as doctor Watson? Listen the lady, the ladies love you, Bro,
the ladies love me.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That's a conversation for the whole other podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Anyway, Man, we we got a great episode on tap
as we are mentioning before we're gonna do our Covenant
autopsy reports. You got two teams that we're going to
put on the slab, namely the Utah Jazz and the
Charlotte Hornet. So we can't wait to discuss what the
outlook is for them and what the future might actually
look like. Albeit though we talk about the dead very
(03:12):
seldomly do we talk. We see teams like raise up.
We're gonna try to give them a little bit of positivity.
We're gonna try to give them a little bit of
a heartbeat as we do our autopsy reports. As always,
we appreciate everybody hopping on boat with us this week.
Be sure to get the my Man Sports NBA get
at me a game face lead the show's Twitter handle
at NBA basline available and all the major platforms. You
can go to www dot the Baseline NBA dot com
(03:34):
to check out not just this episode, but also the
pluthora of episodes that we have dropped for your listening pleasure.
If you chatch us on the YouTube channel, and obviously
you do if you're loving our get up, you know
that we rocks with the nineteen Media Group family. You
can see the blue and white logo down in the
right hand corner. Be sure to check us out on
the YouTube channel, and you can also check out the
family a great content creators of the nineteen Media Group family.
(03:56):
Go to www dot nineteen Media Group. So before we
get into our coveted autopsy report, got to make sure
we do our proper plugs and listen Man that time
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Prize Picks run your game coming up. Sean, I dig
in through the related situation down in Memphis. You don't
want them to hear on the baseline. We're back. And
(06:06):
if everybody's been paying attention to what's going on in
the news of the Association, the latest happenings again, Listen,
the NBA man, don't sleep on the idea that everything
is done you know, in a specific space and time
or within a window. If it's about winning, if it's
(06:28):
about the money line, these executives and these teams, they
don't play. And so the latest and the happenings out
there in Memphis is the parting of ways, is the
best way to put it, between Taylor Jenkins, the head
coach of the Memphis Grizzlies, and the organization. And they're
doing this with about ten plus games or less, you know,
(06:53):
with the season remaining to go. The Memphis Grizzlies is
jostling for playoff position in the Western Conference, somewhere between
possibly a four seed and a six or seventh seed.
And look, I know people are eyes, you know, our
jaws dropped because of what happened to Luka Donkic. I
think I'm more floored by this than I am about
(07:14):
the Luka Donkins situation. I know that sounds kind of crazy,
but to me, I think it's just unprecedented and unheard
of to see that the Memphis Grizzlies felt it necessary
to move on from Jenkins given what Jenkins has given
this Memphis Grizzlies team. Given what he was dealt with
and where this team has positioned itself and where they
(07:37):
are and what's still left to go for them, very
odd situation. It definitely has me scratching my head. This
one is is a head scratcher.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, the Memphis faithful have been indicating and this is
who I've needed to lean on because you know, we're
not there right where, we don't live in the city,
were not avid followers of the team, and everything I've
heard is more or less as a result of Taylor
drinkins in some ways, pseudo losing the locker room eight
and eleven since the All Star Game, and a sub
(08:07):
below record, a sub five hundred record against teams with
a five hundred records some of the upper echelons in
the conferences or in the Association in general. Something has
kind of shifted. Their defense is not the same, and
while we've praised their depth and even some of their
player development, you know they're really struggling when in the
latter part of the season and both their offense and
defense have have had shifted. Part of that, too, is
(08:30):
like they brought in a whole new assistant coaching staff
over the off season to try to tweak some of
that offense. And then if you listen to ESPN, you know,
I want to give them their their credit, you know,
winhorses saying like in recent weeks after the struggles, Taylor
Jenkins started to regress back to what he felt was
a more comfortable offense as opposed to sticking to what
was an offense that was working with a lot of
(08:50):
a lot of ball movement. But John morn Is was
not having a very good season statistically speaking, so a
lot of people were trying to figure out what was
the issue there. But what it blowls down to you,
it doesn't seem like there's some of the fairest activity
from Taylor Jenkins side of the basketball side, you know,
like kind of Udoka style. This seems to strictly be
about basketball with very very peculiar timing obviously, you know,
(09:13):
nine games left at the time or the firing now
eight games left as a time of our recording, and
in the middle of a playoff unt where they're actually
trying to get home court advantage. Uh. Again, it's it's
hard and kind of confusing to kind of really put
this into words and understand exactly what the situation is.
But from every all, for all intents and purposes, this
is a basketball decision, although a peculiar one at this
(09:34):
point in the season.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Peculiar one. But I again, Shaw, I'm trying to rationalize
the good it will actually give you if you're if
what you're saying is by doing this now you are
going to raise those questions. And if you're not going
to raise those questions on Taylor Jenkins and you don't
speak to it magnanimously, then the next thing that you
(09:58):
start looking at is you start looking at the corp players.
You start looking at the star players and wondering if
whether or not they are the ones who had mutinous
tendencies in order to elevate this to the degree that
it's been elevated, because it's not like, Okay, you're getting
rid of Taylor Jenkins and his whole staff. You're getting
rid of Taylor Jenkins, but you're keeping on an interim
head coach, which, by the way, in TOMASI Salo has
(10:23):
great credentials, right, but he was not Taylor Jenkins' number
one guy. Right to your point earlier, that staff had
been replaced, and I don't know how much, say Taylor
Jenkins really had on the kind of people that he
wanted as part of that staff, and so to me,
I think it raises more questions about the organization if
(10:45):
we're really trying to dig into this, and what their
ulterior motives are and what the ultimate agenda is supposed
to be. Now whether or not this becomes a question
of are we trying to satisfy John Morant. Let's also
keep in mind that some of the problems the organization,
some of the problems that we're seeing from John Moran,
are not problems that I think the organization are going
(11:06):
to be able to fix. This is something that John
Morant has to fix, and whether or not that's within
himself or whether or not that's within his game and
the mechanics, he's got to figure that part of it out,
and he's got to be able to ingratiate himself where
he's elevating that team. I think it's great given the
circumstances of what has happened to him in the last
year and a half that he's in the position that
(11:28):
he's in. He's not been someone who's made a fuss
about his struggles he's not put it on anything, and
I think he's even realistic that he needs another year
or so before we start talking about MVP John Morant
like we did a couple of years ago. But in
the meantime, this is why I praise a guy like
Taylor Jenkins, because he knew that he wasn't getting all
John Morant, you know. And so to me, I'm now
(11:51):
questioning the organization a whole lot more than I'm questioning
whether or not. And I'm not saying that I'm a
complete fan of Taylor Jenkins. Taylor Jenkins has had you know,
he has his weakness. But for all intense purposes, this
Memphis Grizzlies team, in my opinion, I think overachieved. I
did not see them being a top five seed. I
saw them maybe being a playing worthy situation. And given
(12:14):
the struggles that some of these other Western Conference teams
who exceeded last year's expectations, I thought would have at
least improved.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
They have not.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So that is given a window for the Memphis Grizzlies
to kind of walk themselves into a better situation, a
better place, but none to the degree that you're gonna
let go the head coach who got you at least
a above five hundred regular season at the very least,
given what the circumstances were at the beginning of the
year and the injuries that you suffered throughout the course
of the season.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I mean, we need to have more information. So
I think it's where, you know, we can't have a
long conversation on it because there's just not enough information
out right now, and I.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Don't even find out the truth until the end of
the season. I think things will start to come out after.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Well, I'll say a couple of things, right, So they did.
Taylor Jenkins is obviously the headline because he's a head coach,
but they fired Patrick Andrews, Patrick Saint Andrews and Noel
la Roche as well too, So those guys were a
part of his assistant coaching staff. So they're all gone.
But the majority, I guess of the new folks that
were brought in have in essence kind of state my
(13:17):
only there's so many thoughts here swirling, and so I
want to be as concise as possible. When you talk
about Taylor Jenkins having to navigate a situation, you know,
I think about Doc Rivers, you know, back with the
Clippers and some of the things that he had to
deal with and different. But again this is kind of
like non basketball related stuff that you're having to manage,
and the stuff with John Moran and you know it,
(13:39):
and the firearms and so forth and so forth, and
then all the injuries that Taylor Jenkins had to manage,
Like I don't think he could have really done a
better job than he did, you know that in that
year and a half two year situation. Now again all
the injuries again, the injuries to job this year as
well too, and still has his team fighting for a
top you know, homeport advantage in the first round. Like
it's it's a little you know. But from the Grizzlies
(14:02):
standpoint for them, I feel like they're like, well, we
can't waste time. If we feel like we can really
make some semblance of a run this year, we need
to do it with a guy who we feel is
going to be here long term. And so, while peculiar
at best, you know, to make this decision now, they
feel like they clearly must feel like, hey, we have
(14:23):
runway to be successful with this roster as currently constructed.
We need the right leadership in place to try to
extrapolate everything we possibly can out of that as and
as macurial as all that is. You know, the day
after Jenkins is fired, John Moractley comes back, you know,
after a six game absence as well too, in a
losing effort. But he played well. I don't know, it's
(14:43):
not it's not great vibes out there in Memphis. But
we'll see what Thomas is able to do with the
rest of this roster as they fight for playoff contention,
playoff home court advantage more more and more appropriately, and
see where that lands them over the course of this playoffs.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Listen, man, I appreciate how you brought up Doc Rivers,
but why don't we just keep it in house. Look,
let's go back and look at the record of how
the Memphis Grizzlies organization has handled their previous head coaches.
And I'll go as far back as to hot Lionel Hollins, Right,
you can make the argument how they handled him and
then had Dave Yeger come in, and then after Dave
(15:17):
Yeger you had Fizzdale and then you know, now you
have Jenkins. And let's keep in mind, Jenkins holds the
Memphis Grizzlies record for the most wins as a head
coach for the Grizzlies. Right, So, I'm just looking at
this and again, if people are pre paying attention to
the lineage and how this basketball team has evolved and
(15:39):
what has evolved the players and everything like that, this
is not something that's coming out of thin air. There's
a lot more to this, Shaw, and I agree with you.
Hopefully we will be able to get more to that
and we can speak a little bit more to that. Again,
I'm not speaking out of turn. I don't want to
make it seem like, oh, you know, I hate the
Grizzlies or I think that there's a problem with it.
What I'm just saying is is that it's very, very
(16:00):
odd that you choose to do this at this very
moment in time and not think that it's going to
raise red flags either as an organization or even those
who are considered stars a part of that organization. Because
somebody is gonna have to speak to it. That's how
the media operates. And so I feel bad for the
Desmond Banes, the Jaron Jackson junior juniors, and the Jah
(16:25):
Morants because the camera is gonna be in front of
them if they don't go out and perform, meaning they
don't go out and have a successful first round of
the playoffs if they stay within the playoff seating, or
if they have to actually be in the play in
situation and they get ousted or even get embarrassed, people
are gonna look back to this situation and say, what
of it? So interesting stuff, There so more to come,
(16:48):
but definitely great conversation to be had. And unfortunately, again,
you know, it just sucks because Taylor Jenkins really is
a good coach and I'm sure he's gonna find a
landing spot, you know, when this offseason takes place, but
wants one.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
He could find one. He can get out of job
the bar if he wanted one, So yeah, you know again,
he'll probably take some time here. But this is not
a guy who we've seen the last of in any
stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely your tune to the baseline. Cali warn Shaw discussing
the hot button topics of the NBA coming up. It's
that time, baby, time for us to put a team
on the slab and get get into our coveted autopsy report.
Doctor Watson, doctor kill patients. You don't want to miss
it here on the baseline. We are back, Cali Warrenshaw
(17:38):
baseline NBA podcast. Time for us to get into our
coveted autopsy report. Man, mister Shaw's right here, he got
the scalpel ready. Time to open up a team Muller here,
So who we got on the slab Shaw, Let's talk
about the Charlotte Hornets. Another disappointing season for Charlotte. And
(17:58):
I think the reason why I want to use the
word disappointing is because it's not that when in the
in in our predictions we had any inclination to the
Charlotte Hornets we're gonna catapult themselves into any kind of
playing situation. You had to wonder with the way that
this team again is structured, that the onus is going
(18:19):
to be on the cleverness of Charles Lee in his
first year as a head coach to kind of navigate
and figure out a way to incorporate hopefully a healthy
Lamello Ball, hopefully a healthy Brandon Miller, Michale Britge, I'm
not Pkale Bridges. Which other Bridges are we talking about,
(18:39):
Sir Miles Miles Bridges, There you go, Jesus em and
M's but Miles Bridges. So it's just it's interesting, we
didn't have any high expectations for this team. But it
is somewhat disappointing sew because again we are faced with
that age old question when it comes to you know,
(19:01):
LaMelo Ball, can he stay healthy for a duration of
an NBA season And because now again his season has
had to abruptly end due to sustained injuries. You know,
the Charlotte Hornets I don't think will find themselves in
any meaningful space years to come until they can figure
(19:25):
out a way to construct a roster that has the
level of depth when you recognize that one of your
top tier players is only going to be available for
half of the games if you're lucky, and where that
chemistry lies with the rest of the other core players.
So a lot of questions to speak of when we're
talking about the Charlotte Hornets. But this is why, you know,
(19:47):
I think of the word disappointment because it just doesn't
feel like they can ever rise up out of the
grave with some sembilance of being an able body team
to be competitive any longer.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I think your spot on. I also still think there's
aspect of the right players and as to give you
whatever runway you're trying to, you know, take off from
the Hornets. I don't think even with Lemel, they're not
a good basketball team. Right there were sixteen thirty one
with him in the forty seven games he played this
year before shutting it down as we record, That means
(20:21):
they were two and twenty four when he didn't play.
So did he impact winning, sure, but it was still
well below well below you know, five hundred or at
the point with Ablow was not even about the injuries.
I think it's some people don't think he's a serious
basketball player. They're starting to feel like this is an
empty calories type of dude that you're going to commit
(20:41):
forty five where you have already signed the contract, so
forty five to fifty million dollars a year, And is
he the person that can get to you to the
next level? You know, as you tried to build around him,
is he somebody you bowled around or is he a
piece of the puzzle? And right now it would seem
more like he could. Potendi he'd be a piece of
the puzzle, but he's not the building block. Because the statistics,
while inflated, they come at the expense of sometimes alienating
(21:05):
some of his teammates. As he's playing a lot of
one on one and shooting the most wildest and ridiculous shots.
You could say, well, there's nobody else there to take shots.
And maybe maybe that's true, especially after Brendon Miller went
down this year. But I'm not convinced that LaMelo is
the guy for this Hornets team. Charles Lee's Charles Lee.
The company has a lot to figure out when it
comes to that, but I'd be surprised. I wouldn't be
(21:27):
surprised if they at least Field offers, you know, when
it comes to trades, he and Miles Bridges to figure
that out. I don't think they're going to move on
from Brendon Miller. And anyway, they also have their number
six pick to John Salon. You know, he started getting
a little bit of run here now too, so you know,
another one of the French you know connections if you
are kind of coming into the space, hasn't really looked
like much. Has had a couple of you know moments
(21:47):
here this season where you know, he's shot the three ball.
Well he's got decent size, But I don't know if
that's the route they want to go building around Miller,
Salon and Ball and Mark Williams who they tried to trade,
you know, and now he's back. So I have nothing
but questions about this Horners team I think currently. But
I think a lot of it starts with what the
what the front office wants to do with LaMelo making
(22:10):
that decision first and foremost? Okay, is he our guy?
And now if we get you know, a top three,
top five draft pick this year? What what? What is
truly the core of our organization? And that's what needs
to be figured out first and foremost.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Shaw I, I don't know what you do with this situation, right.
What I can say is, if let's say, for example,
you tell me that that LaMelo Ball is our guy,
what are you actually telling Brandon Miller? I mean, if
you really think about it, Brandon Miller as a score
(22:43):
and really as a young upstarting player, has received and
garnered a lot more attention and respect in his in
that in that elk, in that community, then I think
people are giving credit for that. Does that necessarily make
him the man? See? He doesn't. He doesn't zued the
star power like the Ball family, right, and like LaMelo
(23:04):
Ball does in many regards. LaMelo Ball actually is the
one in which his basketball game has translated more to
the excitement factor of why we were all eyes on
the Ball family, Lonzo, Him, Leangelo, all of these cats, right,
and I don't know how many more down down the
chain is probably going to come up to come into
the NBA. But the bigger problem than I think you
(23:28):
have is to Charlotte Hornet, is you have to prioritize
what is it that you want your star player to reflect. Right.
I'll give you a perfect example, because I think at
some point we're going to have this question when we
talk about the Washington Wizards, because they're eventually going to
get put on this slab very soon. Right. And it's
(23:49):
the question that I think a lot of people are
asking about the kind of guys that you're saying should
be the face of an organization. You can have an
exciting basketball player. He doesn't have to consume though, the
ideolo and the philosophy of how a team operates within
the system. I think that if you're Charles Lee, you
work a lot more with the guy like Brandon Miller,
because Brandon Miller has at least played some form of
(24:12):
organized basketball when he came out of Alabama, and you
see that in how he carries himself and how he executes.
I think you also have the same question. You have
a little bit of the same questions with Miles Bridges,
But with Bridges, again, he played in a structured level
of basketball that's allowed you to be able to see
some kind of success in what he does on the
basketball court. Whether or not that translates to collectively to
(24:34):
Charlotte Hornets having some corner pieces to work with, I
think you have to shift again the narrative on whether
or not, to your point, we should be focusing on
do we build around LaMelo ball. Maybe let's not even
worry about saying whether or not we're building around LaMelo ball,
but building around a successful group of guys that know
how to play within the system that Charles Lee wants
(24:57):
to implement, and he leaning on those guys to go
out there and executing it the way it needs to
be executed. I think to me that would be a
good start for the Charlotte Hornets because, to your point,
if the focus and the question still becomes what do
we do with the LaMelo ball, they are going to
be doing for failure, regardless of whether or not they're
planning to keep or look to move him. I think
the focal point is really understanding what Charles Lee really
(25:19):
wants to see and really working with the guys who
are going out and executing his vision of what we
want to see from the Charlotte Hornets moving forward.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, I mean the vision is a very very you know,
I think interesting word, especially when it comes to first
year head coaches and then how much time are you
going to give them to be able to impact that
vision create a culture for whatever route you're ultimately trying
to go, you know. But Charlotte is a team that's
in a state of flox. The new organization, I mean,
new management, you know, kind of at the top, new ownership,
(25:50):
et cetera, et cetera, new coach here now, and so
there's just questions, nothing but questions about what this Hornet
team is trying to do. Yes, they've had a lot
of injuries. I mean, Grant Williams went down with an injury.
Trade Man went down with an injury, and I don't
know that that gets him to a point where they
would have been, you know, hunting around the play in situation.
But they now, they're just kind of operating the great unknown,
like just didn't have a healthy roster inclusive of Brandon Miller,
(26:13):
inclusive over LaMelo ball Miles Bridges even this time this year.
So if you get those guys to play sixty five
seventy games kind of each then maybe you have something
that is maybe a little bit more competitive and the
league get another year as well too to implement some
sort of styles. So, you know, I don't want to
let me from what I've said at hold on, I'm
just finished skin. I don't want to flip flop from
what I said previously. But I think you know, even
(26:36):
as we're talking it through, if if if you're gonna say, hey, no, what,
we're not ready to uh cut ourselves and cut our
ties from LaMelo ball just yet, then is it now
adding that additional draft back in with this roster and
then hoping and again really just hoping that this team
stays healthy or are you trying to do more, uh
(26:57):
just larger changes here to make the team more In
the mindset of what you might think Charles Lee is
looking for this rosh of Paltima, maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Do you think the Charlotte Hornets have a long leash
for Charles Lee. I don't want the focal point to
be about the head coach, But what I'm saying is
to your point, this is not gonna be a two
year turnaround project, even with LaMelo Ball, because I think
(27:25):
we are we're saying, and we both agree, even with
LaMelo Ball, the upside of success for the Charlotte Hornets
will not happen in a year or two. What you
can hope for is that if he's healthy enough, he
can be productive. But I think you have to lean
more in what is Charles Lee gonna get out of
some of these other players. And here's the other thing
(27:47):
as well to Shaw, because I do find it interesting
that they weren't able to get rid of Mark Williams,
but their intent was to get rid of both Mark
Williams and Nick Richards. They were successful in moving on
from Nick Richards. Right, at what point do you have
to say start looking at the group of players that
you are bringing in, whether it's to draft or whether
you're pulling them in for free agency or from some
of these nominal trade you're doing, and you're actually settling
(28:10):
in that coach leeue will extrapulate from these guys a
level of professionalism and be able to contribute, whether it's
role affiliated or you find a diamond in the rough.
How how you know do you see yourself giving enough
time for him to be able to do something like that,
because I can at least say that we just finished
(28:31):
talking about a guy like Taylor Jenkins. He was able
to do that, And we can't say that for a
lot of head coaches because to their demise, they probably
won't be coaching much longer. If you still see the
same old, same old, from the way that they operate,
the way that they handle things, and the way that
they philosophizes, how they handle their bench and their role players,
and their development of some of these other guys.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, I mean that would be wild to me. You know,
if they were to say, all right, hey, kind of
a one and done situation, especially for our first year,
you know, in the so I think you know there's
going to be some time here, you know, I'd say
at least, you know, a three to four year run
and they're trying to figure it out. But again, who
are the players on the roster that you're having him
build and try to and establish some someone's culture around
(29:13):
So for me, like when you have building blocks in
this well, I use that term loosely. If you have
potential building blocks in LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller, you
can kind of feel like, okay, you know, just how
how good are they are? These? Again? Are these yesterday
average twenty points per game? You know, Bridges even average
twenty points per game, but that's because multiple guys were out,
(29:34):
and there's a lot of overlapping when guys were out,
So then you know, the usage rate change, you know,
in various times throughout the course of the season to
kind of balance out where you have three twenty point
per game scorers. I don't know if you really have
three twenty more game scorers on this team. And I
don't know if Myles Bridges is somebody that you're trying
to think about as a building block. But with Wall
and Miller, you know, it's it's intoxicating enough because they're
also young, twenty two and twenty three years old respectively.
(29:56):
You know you don't want a punt. But I don't know.
I I think, you know, there's some people in Charlotte
would probably say, hey, I've seen enough of LaMelo Show
to know that this isn't the guy. But what are
you going to go out there and get, especially at
the price tag that you've resigned him for here now
you know, and yeah, you'll have to match those salaries.
But will somebody try to make LaMelo the recognition project?
I don't know if it's even a risk worth taking
(30:17):
for Charlotte, but I know that they they realize nothing
is established in a space where they want this to be.
They're not a good defense, They're not a good offense,
or not good at points in the paint. They're you know,
they're a okay free throw shooting team, whatever, they're not
a good three point shooting team. Like, there's nothing that
can't be improved in any capacity. So all things need
to be on the table when it comes to this
(30:37):
Charlotte Hornets team for next year.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, look, the Charlotte Hornets as a as a team collectively,
you got to hope that something, something goes their way.
And I want it to be something that does not
have to be hyper focused on because I think that's
what does them in what that's what does them wrong.
(31:00):
I think they're praying for this level of elevated success
to happen through LaMelo Ball, and I think to your point,
and we're going all the way back to what we've
been saying in the beginning, LaMelo Ball doesn't seem just
doesn't seem to be that guy. I think there are
far more other interests out there that is certainly has
his intent is up that really doesn't have anything much
(31:22):
to do with the success of basketball. Now, maybe the
success of branding and maybe the success of whatever that
stuff is seems to be what's prevalent. I'm not calling
them out or nothing like that, but what I'm saying
is it's the facts, it's the truth. You know, we
may have had that same kind of conversation with a
couple of other players who we've had the opportunity to
see come across and that we're also seeing out there
(31:43):
playing basketball as we speak right now, and it will
only be available for so long because in Charlotte, Listen,
Queen City and everything like that, a lot going on
and you can very easily elevate your brand, but at
some point it still has to come back to that
core part of why you're even in the NBA, down
to winning, and at some point there's got to be
(32:03):
accountability being held. You can get rid of all of
the head coaches. You can get rid of all of
the quote unquote B players, see tier players, all of them.
It's still gonna come down to the guys that you
paid a ton of money for to go out and
play at a very very high level. And if you're
not gonna be available, and you're not gonna be able
to see that your stats, of your numbers are actually
(32:24):
equating to anything successful. At some point a change is
on the is on the horizon your tunes to the
baseline Calie warren Shaw discussing the hot button topics of
the NBA coming up. It's not for us to put
the Utah Jazz on the slab. Another sad note, Man
gotta sit there and gotta emmy out on the on
(32:45):
the on the Utah Jazz. But that's okay. Sad songs
can be played sometimes. We'll hopefully try to play a
more more mellow tune for them when we autop see them.
You don't want to miss it here on the baseline,
we are back, Calie Warrenshaw, based on NBA podcasts and
(33:09):
time for us to continue our covet at autopsy report.
Next on the slab we have is the Utah Jazz.
It's inexplicable to me, Shaw when I think about the
Utah Jazz, because a couple of years ago, maybe we
were talking about how, where, where what did Danny Ainge
in his first year as a you know, president of
basketball operations and you know, kind of making all of
(33:32):
these flywire decisions, and this team literally like overachieved and
was in the conversation of the playoffs, and then a
couple of injuries happened, and all of a sudden, it's
just all falling apart to the to the extent that
like they're playing like among as one of the worst
teams in basketball. Luckily they're not, but it's it's still
(33:55):
a far cry from because what it felt like was
just maybe a year and a half ago. Two years
feels like forever. When we're talking about, you know, the
drop off for the Utah Jazz, it's inexplicable that we
have to be putting them on the slab because after
the Donovan Mitchell trade and the fresh restart, they seem
to turn things around pretty quickly with the assets they've required,
(34:17):
and then now we've seen a stagnation of this team's
not just success but also the stagnation of these teams development,
and it's really hard to put a finger on where
they're going to be going, you know, especially after another
disappointing season.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, make no mistake about this, Utah Jazz have decided
that they wanted to be bad. So they have played
and toyed with their lineups to the point where, you know,
if the league really wanted to investigate, I think they could,
and they have been asked, you know, and I think
fine for sitting players or resting players, you know, against
what would be competition and rules, so to speak. So
(34:52):
the Jazz are tanking and then there's no no two
ways about it. And I think it's one of those
situations that we said even a couple of years ago,
where Will Hard as a head coach is a good
coach kind of despite what the talent on the floor
might ultimately be. So we need to go ahead and
hinder Will a little further by just taking some of
this talent away or only having certain guys available. I
(35:13):
think at times Marketon has had a very very rough
and up and down year, definitely regressed back to I
think his Chicago forum as opposed to the Utah forum
that we've seen over the last two years, but only
played forty seven games. So you know, how legitimate were
the injuries that he had all year long? You know,
could he have played through some of these things if
they were a more competitive team, potentially, but we don't
(35:36):
know that. I think I told you post December, I
was kind of ear hustling, you know what, the NBA
G League showcase in Orlando, and I heard, you know,
a pretty well connected reporter talking to another pretty well
connected reporter that hey, you know, Hardy and Custler aren't
like the best of friends, Like Hardy just doesn't really
rock with Customer like that. So there's times Custler hasn't played,
(35:58):
you know, from multiple stretches over the course of the year.
And you know, while he's had a decent year, averaging
a double double, and I think, is you know, one
of the month leader, if not the league leader in blocks?
You know, there's there's that aspect. And his name has
been bantered about in trade rumors as well. So for me,
if you don't really sure what marketing is, yes, you
resigned him, so they didn't trade him, but I think
his name is going to come up very, very heavily
(36:19):
I think when it comes to trade potential going into
the draft and obviously into the summer as well, if
you don't like Kessler, then there's not And again Kesler's
not really a building block. But then there's really no
young talent here that I think is like, hey, you
know what, this is a guy you don't have the guy.
If market is not it, then they don't have it
on this roster. And that's not Keyshan, sorry, Kante George,
it's not Isaiah Collier as none of those guys. So
(36:41):
I think Utah is really really kind of struggling here
and wants to be a top two or top three
draft pick this year where they can get the guy
that they can build around. Well.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Okay, so I've I've followed a few games of the
of the Utah Jazz. I've seen a vast improvement in
Kante George. I think it was a question of whether
or not he is just going to be able to
get minutes because again, you look at that roster. That
roster is just freaking flooded with all kinds of guards, right,
and I think it would have it would have done
(37:10):
the Jazz well to you know, move a couple of
those guys on if you really wanted to find out,
you know, whether or not Collier and and Keyante George
you know, couldn't be your back court of the future
if you clearly were not sold on Colin Sexton, uh,
you know as being the back court, you know, leader
(37:31):
for the team, right And I think this has been
the problem with the Utah Jashaw they have just Yeah,
it reminds me a little bit like what we saw
with the Orlando Magic. Now kudos, because I think if
you're Jamal Mosley right of the Orlando Magic, you had
to establish a legitimate footprint. Maybe that's what we're waiting
(37:53):
for in will Hardy. But but if there's more conversations
about who you're not vibing with and who you're not
rocking with than actually having an identity in place, about
what kind of culture you're trying to build, what kind
of you know, system you're trying to implement in place,
and kind of profiling the players who get it to
go out there and execute it regardless of the wins
and losses. And we're still in that same space where
(38:16):
it's like the Bermuda triangle, right, like we have no
idea we can go in a certain direction, but we
really have no certainty where that direction is going to
take us. And I feel like that doesn't help a
guy like Will Hardy, because to your point, Will Hardy
does have credibility. He is a good coach. But if
you're not making an imprint, especially with the bad team
(38:36):
that you kind of have with the Utah Jazz, it's
an either or proposition. No matter what Danny Age does.
He can get rid of all of these players, but
eventually he's gonna have to get rid of Will Hardy,
you know, And that, to me, I think is the
disappointing part of it is that I'm waiting to see
what kind of imprint Hardy is supposed to have on
this team. It shouldn't be that we're having this conversation,
(38:57):
especially if the team sucks. I get it, sixteen wins,
probably will wind up having the worst record, but I'm
supposed to see at least something good come from all
of that, And I think that's where the message gets muddled.
And I think that's where you tread tread very carefully,
not us, But I'm just saying, you know, for people
(39:17):
who are trying to get an idea about what's going
on with the Utah Jazz. We have to tread a
little bit carefully because I'm now start wondering. I'm starting
to wonder, like, did Danny Ainge really want Will Hardy
to coach this team to begin with? You know what
I'm saying, like, if your overall plan was that you
were trying to tank to get quote unquote the Cooper Flag,
(39:37):
the generational player, or whatever the case may be, Let's
remember too, Cooper Plagg has got to be sold that
the coach that I'm gonna be playing for for the
next three or four years is gonna have my best
interest at heart. And whenever you go and you get
other players to come play for me, these are guys
that are, like, you know what I'm saying, I'm just
saying in general, like you're you're gonna get a lottery guy.
You're gonna get a guy. You want to make sure
(39:57):
that that guy's bought into the fact that the coach
that they've got in place, Danny Ainge's got confidence in,
and that Will Hardy's got confidence in Danny Ainge and
so forth and so on.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Well, Yeah, don't I don't know that I am as
concerned about the age and Hardy connection as I am
about the overall roster construction, short term and long term
and who will be here. So I think those guys,
I don't say lockstep, but I think there's some sort
of synergy Hardy's again, Hardy might be better than even
whatever poultry roster Age just trying to put out there.
(40:28):
So Angel like, all right, we got to strip it
down even further. That's why I'm a little surprised that
they weren't more active, or maybe they tried, but they didn't,
you know, trade Jordan Clarkson or Collin Sexton or John Collins,
all the names we hear every single year are going
to get moved. They didn't move any of those guys.
I will say, all those guys have contracts at end
after next season, so they can utilize those expiring deals.
(40:48):
I think, you know, as salary filler, you know, for
potential deals or trying. I don't think you're gonna get
a whole lot of draft equity for some of those guys.
But at the end of the day, they know after
end of next year, they're gonna be basically resetting the
overall books again. So I can't imagine that they wouldn't
be in the same situation. Like I mean, I would
expect the Utah Jazz to being very much here again
next year, even with whatever what looks like to be
(41:10):
a top two or three pick in this year's upcoming draft.
And even if to keep Marketing, which again I think
they might be, it might be kind of foolish in
essence to do because Marketing is already is already twenty seven,
so he's entering truly the prime of his career. So
what does he give you alongside Dylan Harper or Cooper
of Flag right now? Like, I don't know, I think
other than taking away touches from somebody who you're also
(41:32):
ultimately trying to develop when you get one of those guys.
So to me, I think the Jazz are looking to
press reset immediately. I think Will Hardy and Danny Aingel
on board with what that situation is. And this roster,
I mean, it has Cody Williams on it as well too,
and you know they've maybe they struck a little bit
of gold and Kyle Flapowski or whatever, and you know, again,
nice nice guys, nice rotational pieces per se, but you
know they're not the development they're not the franchise building
(41:54):
guys here, and that's what they're looking to try to
do in this year's draft. So to me, look for
you talk to completely reset this row. Sure, going into
the summer with maybe a couple of veterans that they
can keep, you know, just for salary because they got
to have you know, the minimum salary and necessar to
start of the season. But maybe some of those guys
you know, will get moved on as we get to
next year's trade deadline as well too.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
All right, I want to ask you to confidence uh
the confidence question, right, So on a scale of one
to five, how much confidence do you have in Kessler
still being a utah jazz? Uh, I need no confidence
five being utmost confident.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with two. I mean,
you know, the easiest, like, oh, going to three, But
you know, I'm going to go with what I heard,
per se and you know what I've seen to some
degree as well. And you know they have an opportunity
to move him. I think they they will because.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
If you think they'll move if you think they'll move on,
you think they'll move him more so than prioritizing re
signing or redoing anything with market it say that again,
do you What I'm saying is is do you think
that the priority that the priority would be to keep
Kessler move on from marketing or vice versa.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
I think you'd probably want to clear your books. So
I think if you find a if you find a
taker from marketing, you probably do that because they've already
resigned marketing, and they did that at the end last
part of the summer, which precluded him for being able
to be traded, you know, by the deadline, So you know,
before you have to end up having to pay Kessler,
maybe you try to move them move on from him
before you even have to commit money in essence for
(43:33):
whatever reason, because then you don't want to lose them
for nothing as well. But I think both of those
guys are are Hey. You know, I won't say their
days are numbered in Utah. I don't have any intel
that's saying that specifically, other than the fact that I
think Kessler's attitude or I shouldn't say his attitude whatever,
something needs to change. I think from the synergy with
he and Will Hardy, you know, if others are to
(43:54):
be believed that you know, hey, customer can be their
long term, but marketing, I just don't think it makes
a lot of sense, especially if you get Cooper Flag
like I I, well, yeah, you can say that's too
long thing sided together, but it's it's I think that's
my point. Whoever be the man as opposed to having
somebody who's gonna average, you know, twenty five a game,
potentially in lower marketing.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, I think to me that's part of where I
was kind of curious about this Shaw. It's like, are
you preparing yourself to open up this idea that you
are going to go after or be in a position
to get a guy like Cooper Flag? You know, if
Cooper Flag wherever he you know, wherever the Jazz sit
(44:37):
in the drafting position sort to speak, are you still
determined to say, we're going to go back to the
draft to find the future of the foundation of this
organization and listen, that may not necessarily just be a reset,
that could actually just be a mindset of which Danny
Ainge truly believes is the best path forward for the
(44:59):
Utah Jazz to replenish and rebuild and bring back the
glory of what made the Utah Jazz as successful as
they had been during the nineteen the late nineteen eighties,
going into the nineties and early two thousands, they had
core players, guys that they brought in from the draft,
developed up, came in, took over and did what they
(45:20):
were doing, even if it was for a short stint,
if it was within a three to five year window,
you know, whatever the case may be. I feel like
maybe that is what's best suited for the Utah Jazz.
The unfortunate part is is I think they have missed
on those type of players, and they went and they
took a shot in the dark and bringing in marketing in,
which again it surprises me because we saw a different
(45:40):
side of market in coming over from the Bulls to
the Utah Jazz and ultimately showing us that he can
be an aggressive score. He could be a you know,
a I want to say, not top tier, but he
could definitely be a middle tier type score. He kind
of be your Jaron Jackson junior guy two a kind
of guy if you wanted him to. I think he
has that kind of versatility. It's just the other aspects
(46:03):
of his game you want to see more aggressiveness with,
and I think that comes with pairing him with someone
that can show you that level of aggression that certainly
wasn't going to be the case with Kessler, you know
what I'm saying. So it'll be interesting to see what
the Utah Jazz chooses to do moving forward.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Shaw.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
But I think to your point, whatever whatever player you get,
that's why I go back to the hearty thing, because
I feel like I want to see the imprint of
him having to influence on whoever their cornerstone player is
going to be, and how that how that permeates through
the other guys that Danny Age chooses to bring on
the roster, because I don't think Danny Age is going
to find a dude like that, whether it be free
(46:39):
agency or he's gonna pull some dude like that, you know,
from off the street, so to speak. I really think
it's going to have to be homegrown.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, I mean, and they're not a free agent destination,
so like they know they're gonna have to do this
by by trade. And I don't want to go so
far as to say where I feel like, okay, well,
where they get thought in the lottery will determine their future,
but in some ways it could at least help guide
some of their short term future because the top of
the draft is kind of garden wing heavy flag you
(47:08):
think is more kind of a three and a four
type of situation. But you know, a Spelly and others
are Delar Harper, like those are guards and two guards
if you will, so I don't think they're set at
that position. So they end up with one of those
guys as opposed to you know, Cooper Flag specifically where
there could be some duplicity with what Marktin is currently doing.
Then you know, you can see the Keynte Georgia is
the colin sectons of you if you will, to maybe
(47:29):
those guys get moved on from because now you have
you know, an Ace Bailey or Dylan Harper kind of
in one of those spots. Like I don't know, I
think some of that is going to be determined. But
for me, I think Utah's plan is definitely try to
be bad for the next next year as well, especially
with those expirings as I said, and then you'll start
to see what the future and the foundation of this
roster is with I think Will Hardy with you know,
(47:51):
pretty pretty long leased there with Danny Age as well too.
In Utah.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Good stuff, man, good stuff. Not a bad start to
our autopsy.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Kept light, I mean, and these are teams that are listen,
they've been dead a long time, you know, like you know,
they've they've been sleep walking, walking dead through the rest
of this regular season anyways.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
So yeah, every now and again, then we just have
to change. We have to update the soil. We just
gotta you know what I'm saying, got to make sure
the soil is fresh man, you got you know what
I'm saying. We gotta figure out a way to get
them planted for that.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I think at the end of the day, we it's
hard with these teams, but it's also easy at the
same time because there's not so much there where you
feel like, okay, where they're like they're like one one one,
you know, one person, one player away, Like they're very
far off where whatever that next step is for them
in terms of even like playing contention, like they're so
far away from that. So literally everything is on the table,
(48:45):
like literally everything. They're not good offensive, they're not good defensively, like,
you know, the only thing you can say, I think
with both of these situations in Charlotte and in Utah
is that you have young head coaches that so young
in ages, but I think, well, it's actually pretty young
head coach himself in terms of age, but you know,
in experience head coaches who are hey trying to impact
their way and create a culture for both of these
teams and these rosters that will get them to that
(49:07):
next step, you know, proverbally so, so shout out to
the Hornets and Jazz. You know, it's been fun for
some watching you with the season. It's been really interesting
to watch the Tank at play, especially in the case
of Utah where the Tank was on very.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Very early absolutely great, great stuff as always, and we
definitely want to hear from y'all. What are your thoughts
about the Charlotte Hornets and the Utah Jazz and what
their future is going to possibly look like. Should we
continue to keep burying them or is there hope for
us to resuscitate these two franchises back into the relevancy
of the NBA. Definitely want to hear from your thoughts
(49:42):
on that path forward for the baseline. Callie warren Shaw,
we appreciate you guys, you know we do, and we'll
catch up with you next time.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Free Audio Horst Production
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Byophonic dot Com
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