May 2, 2025 • 60 mins
In this week’s episode of The Baseline NBA Podcast, we continue our Autopsy Report series, taking a deep dive into the Memphis Grizzlies and Miami Heat. Both teams were knocked out of the NBA Playoffs in convincing fashion—dispatched by the top-seeded Oklahoma City Thunder and Cleveland Cavaliers, respectively. We break down what went wrong for these once-feared franchises, examining key injuries, underperformance, coaching decisions, and roster challenges. With the Grizzlies and Heat clinging to past glory, we explore whether it's time for a rebuild, roster overhaul, or front office reset. Get insights on:
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- NBA Playoff analysis
- Future of Ja Morant, Tyler Herro, and key stars
- Trade rumors, free agency outlook, and team needs
- Coaching and front office evaluations
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's good. Everybody is your boy cal game face Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And it's me Warrenshaw and we are officially live on millions, y'all.
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Speaker 3 (00:30):
Absolutely so be sure to go to millions dot COO
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Your boy Cayl gave face Lee and my man Warren
Shaw hit us up on millions.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Don't miss out.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
This is the Baseline discussing the hot button topics of
the NBA. Welcome everybody, your tune to the Baseline Cali,
We warn't y'all discussing hot button topics of the NBA.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
We're back at it again. Autopsy Report Style. Got two
teams to put on the slab. Probably at the code
the way that we decide to go on these two teams.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
One of them you always have to do. What's called
a heat check. Now we have to really do what's
called a heart check for both of these teams. And
Sean knows what I'm talking about. That's why he's smirking
right about now. Ain't because he's happily ready to start
scalping the two teams we're about to dig into an
autopsy report. But it does bring him a sense of
(01:28):
joy in his line of work when we get to
this point of the season.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, these are two cold cases, brother, and two teams
that did not expect to be here this soon. One
of them I'm not a the biggest fan of in general,
and so yeah, I'm I'm a little excited to get
into this optopsy and dig in here and figure out
how we can bring these teams back to life the
twenty five season.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You want to borrow my scalpel, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Go here and just you know just what I'm gonna
get into this.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Hey, well, listen, man, the way that these two teams
got exited out of the NBA Playoffs could probably lend
itself on being well versed on what it's like to
get your your soul snatched right out of your body.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Before you before you could even pass yas.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, these two teams did not have a good showing,
essentially getting swept out of the first round of the playoffs,
and yes they had uphill battles against them, but they
just did not look like good basketball team that they
deserve to be here in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, and I think that's going to be part of
our conversation is when you look at the roster as
it's constructed, when you look at the way that the
teams made decisions down the stretch, and you want to
take it all the way at least to the trade
deadline time frame leading up to what's happened. You know
there's gonna be some good and there's going to be
(02:56):
some bad. So you know, we're really excited about talking
about these two teams because I think shaw it kind
of opens up that, you know, conversation that we're gonna
have about what kind of off season are they really
gonna need to have if we're legitimately talking about sustainable
success for both of these organizations, and the dynamics of
(03:17):
how those teams are constructed certainly is gonna lend itself
to us having those conversations. So can't wait to get
into that and obviously we haven't mentioned the teams because
we're gonna wait till the end to tell you right
before we we gotta hit the hit the hit the
brakes when we do our break and you know, kind
of give it to people and be like, all right,
bills pay Now you'll find out who we're talking about.
But as always, man, appreciate my brother from another mother
(03:40):
hopping on board as always for us to do our
coveted autopsy report. And also the Base on NBA podcast
has been kicking strong for ten plus years. As always,
be sure to get my man sports NBA again me
at game Face leader shows Twitter handle at NBA. Based
on available on all the major platforms, you know where
to find us. If you catch us on the YouTube
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(04:01):
hello to you and yours. And if you see the
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you know that we rocks with nineteen Media Group family.
Nineteen Media Group you running these content streets, so be
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(04:21):
Coming up Sean, I get right into it. Autopsy report.
Two teams being put on a slab this week, we'll
be talking about the Miami Heat and the Memphis Grizzlies.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
You're locked in with us here on the Baseline NBA Podcast. Yes, sir,
it's about that time. Autopsy report, Cali Warrant, y'all base
on NBA podcast, and the first team that we're ready
(04:55):
to put on the slab shot.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
We're gonna start with the Memphis Grizzlies.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I know you might have been licking your chops on
you know what I'm saying, dissecting and fully going through
doing a coveted CSI investigation on the Miami We'll save
We'll save them for the for the end. Let's dig
right into the Memphis Grizzlies. I'm actually intrigued about your
perspective of regarding the Memphis Grizzly Shaw, because we had
(05:25):
a conversation about who was going to take the two
seed in the Western Conference, and I felt like the
way that I had described my perspective of saying that
the Houston Rockets we're gonna probably wind up taking that
second seed wasn't so much of not having confidence on
(05:48):
the other participants that were jockeying for that. The Memphis
uh the you know, the Memphis Grizzlies, the Minnesota Timberwolves,
the Denver Nuggets, the Los Angeles Lakers, the Golden State Warriors,
all of them bunched together.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
But I think I had put emphasis on.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Not as not being as high on the Memphis Grizzlies
because I saw troubling signs that I didn't know whether
or not it was going to really catch up to them.
I think it literally took the two big announcements that
had taken place right one major essentially with what happened
(06:30):
with Taylor Jenkins, and I knew that this was going
to come back to haunt them. I knew that this
was going to come back to haunt them. But I
want to wait a little bit later on show to
talk about where I think that haunting is going to
get them more so than the immediacy. What I wasn't
expecting was the lack of competitive effort that the Memphis
Grizzlies exhibited in this playoff against Oklahoma City Thunder. And
(06:56):
it troubles me because I think it speaks to a
much larger issue that gets back to my haunting.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well, the tail for the Grizzlies for me is kind
of a tale of maybe like almost kind of three seasons.
The beginning of the year, there were all these great
vibes Jazz back and then he started the miss games.
But then they have this really kind of plucky and
unexpected bench and we were so excited about the Grizzlies
(07:30):
are so deep. They're so deep, and we know Sante
al Dama can play basketball, and they were doing this
while Gig Jeckson and Vince Williams Junior, all those guys
were still out. They were you know, Taylor Jenkins has
his team kind of rocking and rolling despite job being
in that lineup. Then there was like even from the vibes,
it kind of even went a little bit higher than that,
because hey, now they're the two seed, as high as
(07:53):
the two seed in the Western Conference, and then you
just started with the whole. All the while, though Jah
Moran is not necess they're playing like the old joh
He's talking about I'm not going to duck anymore, and
all these kind of like weird sub messages are going
out in the media or the case to be, they
need to have a highlight play here or there. You know,
Sharon Jackson Jr. Is playing fairly well throughout the course
(08:13):
of the season, having a nice defensive campaign, and it's
all good. Scotti Goodman Jr. You know, he's doing his thing.
Then came the All Star break, and this team finished
twelve and sixteen after the All Star Break, finished with
a twelve and nineteen record against teams over five hundred
nine games. Before the season ends, they fire Keyler Jenkins
(08:36):
and go into the playoffs as a kind of muddled
mess of a roster that just didn't really seem ready
to compete with the likes of a true title contending
team in Oklahoma City Thunder. So you can scream bad
matchup if you want to, but you cannot scream and
excuse the lack of true, true effort and competitiveness that
(08:57):
was there throughout the course of the series. And John
messlask game and then job missed the last game and
a half, I guess, you know, technically speaking, but they
somehow blew up what was it about twenty seven point lead,
you know in Game three at home and then John
goes down and then ultimately are not really competitive in
Game four after getting the doors blown off of them
in Game one as well too in Oklahoma City. That's
how I see this season. It just little by little
(09:19):
by little by little, they started to just kind of
fall apart, and their warts became just more evident to
all of us and to the entire rest of the NBA,
which now puts them at risk for what many people
are considering, is it time to say, you know what,
this court, this team has run its course, and we're
not We're not team. We're not like, oh, blow it up,
(09:40):
blow it up, blow it up. Remember our guys, the
partner used to rock with us, you know, blow it up.
You know it was dropping the bombs on them, lie
funk flex. But at the same time, this team has
had five seasons and some semblance of continuity. Yes, a
lot of those seasons injury riddled, and I don't know
now that this is a team that you want to
see together, especially with Jaron Jackson. You're now do an
(10:01):
significant payday after next season. All right, So you brought
up so many great points. I want to get to
the haunting real quick, and then I'll let you kind
of chime in and you know, let me know what
you're whether or not you're on board where I'm coming from.
I believe, and I don't want to I don't want
to look at this as saying this is immediacy bias, right,
(10:26):
But I believe the most important attributes that Taylor Jenkins
was able to exhibit as a head coach was figuring
out a way to elevate guys who have been starving
for an opportunity to shine, while at the same time
(10:52):
capitulate to ultimately the star player that everybody was drawn
to and were enamored with because of every dynamic element
that he brought to the game and as exciting as
a player as John Morant is. And I think this
(11:13):
gets missed so badly.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Shaw.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Let's remember the number of times that John Morant had
been out, whether it was because of injury or because
of his own undoing, this Memphis Grizzlies team was still
among one of the most competitive teams in basketball, and
I think a large part of that was that the
team brought more into Taylor Jenkins than just the idea
(11:39):
of the dependency and the star element that John Morant brings.
While John Urrant is a great player and at times
can elevate a team, he can also wear the Superman cape.
And let's call it for what it is. We're not
saying that he's a bad person. We're not saying that,
you know, but the immaturity, the lack of the lack
(12:01):
of awareness wherewithal in recognizing that some of your actions
are self inflicted and also because of that causes collateral
damage at the expense.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Of your team.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I think hit a tipping point, and I think you
saw exactly what I think. Even if Taylor, if you
ask Taylor Jenkins right now, I don't wanna put where's
his mouth, but I'm sure he's saying.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I tried.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
You know what I'm saying. I think this has now
all come to a head. I think now what you're
completely seeing is two separate visions of what this Memphis
Grizzlies team can look like with or without John Morant.
And I think this now also became a time where
you're gonna have to pick a side. You want to
(12:46):
be on the John Morant side of how this team
may look like with him on the roster, or you're
gonna look like what your future was gonna look like,
maybe playing for another team. Cause I'm saying that I
don't know if the parts collectively can do this again.
I don't think that the Desmond Banes, the Jaron Jackson Juniors,
and any of these other guys feel like they're gonna
(13:08):
have a place if this is part of what the
struggle is gonna be like playing under this like, these
guys are gonna need a whole off season together. Not
a whole off season to go and sort out your
feelings and wallowing what happened and getting destroyed by the
Oklahoma City Thunder. You're gonna need a whole off season
of actually being together and understanding each other and being
(13:28):
each other's space because you don't have the luxury of
a head coach who knew how to help put that
together in Taylor Jenkins. And no disrespect to the interim
head coach, who I know that the Memphis Grizzlies are
gonna lean towards, you know, probably keeping on Intomas Lisalo.
But I don't see where he is going to be
able to help make that happen, because he, to me,
(13:51):
doesn't exhibit the type of person that has that characteristic
to lean on the superstar or lean on the other
guys and make it all work. I think he understands
that this may be his moment to shine. So there
could be some you know, self motivated tendencies as well too.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
You think I'm off in my assessment of that part.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think it's just too really we haven't really seen
much of thomasin in this role. Like he's basically what
we have a thirteen game sample basically, you know, for
them being against the Oklahoma City Thunder, who would you know,
pretty much beat the doors off of a lot of
other teams out there. I think just the trollmoil of
the end of the season carried over. And I'll throw
a couple of stats at you. The Memphis Qrizzies finished
(14:32):
sixth on offensive rating and tenth in defensive rating. Post
All Star, they were sixteenth and eighteenth. They are more
the post All Star team than they were the team
that showed you the body work over the eighty two games.
So they're not this really highly efficient offense, you know,
getting open looks, generating looks for everybody. They're not this
kind of really good top ten defense either. Everything fell
(14:55):
off a cliff after post All Star and the fact
that they weren't able to beat anybody with any real substance.
You know post All Star as well too, or throughout
the course of the regular season is a really really
telltale sign. So the questions are is not about just oh,
do we trade trade Jaw? Do we trade Desmond Bane
or Jaron Jackson because we don't want to pay him.
I think it's it's the it's the role delineation, the offensive,
(15:19):
not the philosophical struggle that's happening between the coach and
the general manager now, which you feel like should be
settled now with Tomas kind of in play here as
a head coach. But I'm not sure Jaw is a
is a star level lead your team to a title player.
He's highlight film. He's gonna put butts in seats, So
that's you know, where he has the star power. But
(15:41):
to your point, some of the leadership qualities, I'm not
quite sure that that's exuded in a way that's lifting
all tides of this of this Memphis roster. So when
you look at Jaw, look at Desmond Baine, and look
at Jaron Jackson, I see three guys who are are
probably qualified number twos Jared Jackson maybe even more of
a number three. And I don't know, some people don't
(16:03):
think Desmond ban is all that dope. I think he's
pretty proficient. But you would say, okay, well the three
three number two should be enough to make you competitive.
Then it did get you to forty eight wins, right,
well that's good, but it got your doors blown off,
you know it. It's a team that is elite, you
know when they wrapped up sixty eight wins. I just
don't know that the combination of Baine, Moran and Jackson
(16:24):
Junior are enough to propel this team to the next level.
This questionly the work, but.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Shaw, I'm not even I'm not even saying whether it's
a question of it being enough. I think what I
am saying is it's enough, like we've seen it and
it ain't happening. Okay, I'm just saying from what I'm
looking at, I don't see Jaron Jackson Junior having a
(16:50):
vested interest in trying to run this back again. Whether
or not it means like the Grizzlies have to consider
trading him. I think, yes, you should probably move him
because I think for the style of offense that Tumas
probably wants to run, if it's still gonna include maybe
(17:10):
Bain and definitely gonna include John Morant. It can't be
with Jaron Jackson Jr. I'm sorry, We've said this time
and time again for someone like Jaron Jackson Junior's skill set.
I don't know if it's just mentality or it's just
the way that the system operates. He is someone that
is so lost at times just completely disappears. And remember
(17:33):
we were kind of treading this this this this kind
of this kind of talk about Evan Mobley. The difference
is Evan Mobley has guys that are really colding him
accountable because they truly believe in the upside of his
skill set in where he's playing for for Cleveland. And
what I'm saying is, if we want to salvage the
uniqueness of a Jaron Jackson Jr. Like we salvage a
(17:55):
uniqueness of a Christaps for zingis, it can't be playing
next to John Morant and it can't be playing with
the Memphis Grizzlies under the circumstances that the Memphis Grizzlies
is currently situated.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
That to me is where I'm coming out.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's you're pointing out, you're poorting out Jaron Jackson Jr.
As the guy.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
No, but I can, but I could also make the
argument too as well as the as Desmond ban because
I truly believe the Desmond Bine believes that he is
a one a kind of guy, but he can't operate
in that kind of space playing next to John Moran,
and and I think we've seen that time and time again,
he gets lost because I think he truly believes that
as a vocal leader, and he exhibits it. He's a
(18:33):
vocal leader and expends a lot of energy trying to
keep the guys together, whether Ja Moran is out there
or not. But then we don't see the consistency his
ability to score the basketball because he's not looked at
it like that. To your point, he's kind of like,
you know, everyone's kind of looking like, you know, he's
but he ain't real. He definitely can be real, but
he can't be real playing in that kind of system,
(18:54):
and he can't be real playing with those two guys
next to him. So something has got to give regarding
that trifecta. Going back to what you're talking about, well.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Let's let's let's let's let's analyze that for a quick second. Okay, right,
Because for many people's accounts Triple J here had one
of his best seasons and an offense that was more
friendly and democratic, you know, without Job kind of trippling
the air out of the basketball, as they say. And
(19:22):
I think after they kind of switched the offenses back
to let John Cook maybe a little bit more, Daron
Jackson Junior started to regress a little bit. I'll, i'll, i'll,
I'll go down with the ship and saying that I
don't Jared Jackson cannot lead it, lead you offensively. You know,
he's good and even a plus defender, but he cannot
do those things and then have to lead you, you know,
lead you offensively. We saw points in this series they
(19:44):
were so down bodies that he was even trying to
initiate often sometimes. And what I think, honestly, and I'll
say this, you know, from my own personal opinion, his
game is an aesthetically pleasing and I think that also
kind of takes away from it from from a lot
of people's standpoint. Despite what he's actually producing out there,
the aesthetics of it are just the gain. They just
don't make you say wow, You're like, oh, you know,
(20:05):
kind of like watching the play. But for By and large,
he gets things done. I think they need to decide
what type of offense they want to be. Who is
the primary guy running said offense and like running it
through is it job doing, you know more or less
pick and rolls and drives it and kick out some
spray or is job going to be playing off the
(20:26):
ball a little bit more? And again there's more kind
of autonomous offense that is, you know, kind of trying
to lift all ties as I continue to utilize. I
don't know what the answer to that is right now.
I do know they need to figure it out in
short order. And I will say, you know, we've been
kind of bagging on them in a negative way. There
are some positives in this team because you do have
Scott Pippen Junior, who's going to be I think the next,
(20:48):
you know, one of the next best backup point guards
in the NBA. Like he looks really really worth his sault.
They had an injured season from JJ Jackson, Like, all right,
if he comes back, maybe that's something ZI edy. Yeah,
he's a large, large individual. He's got to learn the
NBA game and how to stay on the floor a
little bit more as well, too. And I think already,
you know, and Jalen Wells as well too, like rookie Sensation,
(21:09):
who's going to be an on all Rookie team. It's
about the injury that he's stuff for towards the end
of the season. So there are some there are pieces here,
but you know, it's hard to talk about those supplemental
parts that are really good that a lot of teams
would actually like without. We can't just glaze over the stars,
if you will, the three potential all stars, but three
potential All stars aren't necessarily three potential superstars, and that's
(21:32):
where the Grozzies are tripping over them.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So so shaw all right, I'm gonna try my best
to show a level of positivity here. Okay, I'm gonna try.
I apologize to you and I'll apologize to our listeners.
If that just doesn't, I means you're not gonna drive. Yeah,
I'm giving a genuine effort here, So just work with
me on this, Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I think one of the reasons why we.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Are we're pleading, we're pleading for the for the Memphis Grizzlies,
you know, in a way of its itself, to get
out of its own way.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Because I think we saw glimpses of a really good
team collectively, but then we've also seen what happens when
we capitulate to the team's mystique or their talents.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Right, Like, I feel like they're airing on this quote
unquote five year window of seeing you know, remarkable glimpses
of these guys doing great things. But it ain't adding up, right,
And so you make a drastic move or a drastic change,
And I just think it comes down to Shaw, It
(22:45):
comes down to the players, bro, Like, what if what
we're saying is that this is about the core guys.
I'm gonna ask you who are the core guys for
the Memphis Grizzlies. Right, you'll definitely say John Morant, and
you want to say Jaren Jackson Junior. But even with
the numbers that he's putting up, you're not confidently saying
(23:07):
you just basically said, he's probably a two guy. He's
a two A kind of guy. He's not your one
A or one B. So, in other words, those numbers
in the consistency of what we're asking of him to
do on a night and night out bas or in
the most important times of sessions, it doesn't add up.
And I'm gonna say this Shaw because I think this
lends itself to where we're looking at the best teams
(23:29):
right now in the NBA, Boston Celtics, Oklahoma City Thunder,
the Cleveland Cavaliers. One of the things, we'll even throw
teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, the New York Knicks, Okay,
and the Denver Nuggets. Do you know what one of
those all of those teams have in common, right? And
what teams like the Houston Rockets and the Memphis Grizzlies.
(23:51):
You may even let's let's go the Golden State Warriors
and are as well as you know what those teams.
They're young, but you know what they're lacking. They're lacking
an elevated level of basketball IQ, one that merits the
idea that they can still contribute. Your star players can
still contribute without only relying on what they've been known
to do. In other words, we know Jaren Jackson Junior
(24:12):
could probably be defensive player of the Year if he
puts his mind to it. But when it doesn't happen
for him on the offensive side of the ball, it
impacts him on the defensive side of the ball. We
know that Desmond Bank could probably be one of the
best shooters in the game, but he isn't aggressive, so
unless the ball gets to him, he doesn't figure out
a way to put himself in spaces where he can
(24:33):
be you know, a as a man Bart Scott from
the ESPNSA a force multiplier on the floor, John Moran.
If the ball isn't in his hands, what else is
he doing?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Right?
Speaker 3 (24:46):
That's what most people will probably be asking. And you're
asking of that of basically three quarters of your starting rotation.
And so I think that, to me is where a
lot of the questions come. It's not that I don't
believe this Memphis Grizzlies team is great, shaw, I just
don't know if they can just collectively be great together.
And I think that is where they're afraid to actually
pull the trigger on that, because it's one thing if
(25:09):
you see those guys out there and they gave their
heart out, and you know, we're saying, man, they're just
not good enough. But we know if they're given an offseason,
they'll get better. When you get blown out the way
that they do, and you can see twenty nine to
thirty point leads to a team that has confidence within itself,
but also is a.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Heady basketball team. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
We're not questioning the upside of what the Oklahoma City
Thunder can do as a team. We're saying that team
is good enough that they can play within themselves and
still impose them will through the course of a game
for four quarters. Can we honestly say that we're gonna
see that from a Houston Rockets or a Memphis Grizzlies team.
And I feel like that's where both of those teams are,
and you're gonna start asking that question about them. The
Houston Rockets, you give them another three years and they
(25:55):
fall short when you see glimpses of good good, good
goodness coming from great players, but not seeing elevated play
when it matters most.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I'm going to kind of close loop here with the
Memphis on this, right. So we've talked about their stats,
We've talked about, you know, the record, We've talked about
even somewhat of the roster construction. We haven't really speculated
about what the move is. We keep talking about the
three guys. But so if you go by today's NBA, right,
I don't know if you have with me, but we
(26:23):
think they have a really good to decent or even
a good to really good decent bench, right, But it's
it's starting with those three guys. One or two of
those guys, maybe go if you're looking at the landscape
of the NBA right now, there's only a handful of
force multipliers, as you said, that could potentially be available.
(26:46):
And I'll give you three names. Kevin Durant in Phoenix
because we know the Sons are going to make changes, right,
and yes, he's gonna flirt with Houston, he's gonna flirt
with with Miami. But should the Grizzlies ultimately try to
get into that conversation in some capacity one way or
the other. Right, there could be something and this is
the least of the least of my favorite here, but
(27:08):
there could be something that you want to do in
Philly with maybe a Paul George rolanbid. I think that's
not going to happen, but you could also you could
also try to persuade Milwaukee and see if the Yana
stuff is going to become available. Obviously we'll talk about
them obviously coming up soon here too. They say, with
the Dan Lillard situation, if Jannis asks out, you know,
(27:29):
is it a Baine and Filler and picks. Is it
a Jaron Jackson? I don't think. I don't think the
contracts were Jackson and Bain, which is obviously what Milwaukee
would probably want, you know, and then to kind of
pair that up, or do you you know, really you know,
throw the world and so cycle and throw jaw and
you know Jackson in there for for Gianni's or something
like that. Like, I don't know, but do any of
(27:51):
those situations sound right to you? Because they are too good,
they cannot They're not going to be able to tank
and strip it down to the studs like they're not
going to They won forty eight games and they have
three potential All Stars on this roster. What do you
do with this team? Do you try to make a
MiG swing? Because because the answer is clearly not just
running it back.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Right, I would think it would make sense to try
to go after Kevin Durant. But I don't see any
I don't see it in any world. And I'm not
saying that I'm questioning whether Kevin Durant believes in playing
next to John Morant.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I just believe it.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I'm only interrupting you because for this one reason, Kevin Durant,
to me, is the worst fit for this for this
roster because Kevin Durant just wants to hoop. He doesn't
want to lead, right. No situation has he ever gone
and wanted to lead anything, right, But he don wants
to hoop, right. I understand that.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
But I think what I'm saying is if you're trying
to keep what you've got from an offensive system standpoint
with Tomas and what he's supposed to be implementing, and
do I don't think he's gonna mind the ball being
in in in Morant's hands. Why Because you have arguably
one of the most efficient scores in the game of basketball,
and John Morant knows that and he can work with that.
(29:02):
You can't get you can't get Yannis. I just don't
see in any world you know why? Because Giannis is
going to demand more from Ja Morant. And maybe Ja
Morant might make it sound like he's down with that,
but let's be real, Okay, in no universe do I
see where John Morant is going to influence the affluence
(29:28):
of Jannis Atizukumpo. So that's the reason why that to
me is a myss now Philadelphia of those three scenarios,
to me, seems like the more middle ground here because
you got basically one or two players who want it
so badly, but they realize John Morant can be that guy.
So all of this really comes down to Shaw on
the prioritization. Does Para and Climbing believe that the future
(29:51):
still goes through John Morant and they are going to
make sure and ensure that John Morant is the future
for the Memphis Grizzlies. And if so, then you proceed
accordingly and you ultimately are gonna have to find other
guys that are going to have to I guess fall
in line with the way that Tumas and Jahn Morant's
(30:12):
relationship is gonna have to evolve.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I think the role players will.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
All kind of do what they do have been doing
in the last four years that the Memphis Grizzlies have
afforded themselves with quality role player guys. But whoever those
next tier guys are, whoever is gonna be that quote
unquote because I think with John Moran, he's a one A,
so there's gonna obviously have to be a two A
and two B kind of players that are gonna concede
on saying you're dex star, you take us to the
(30:38):
Promised Land. I will give you what I can give you.
But shaw, I go back to this again. You're asking
the maturity and you're asking the Grizzlies to buy into.
There will be a different level to John Morant come
this offseason, and all of what has happened is going
(30:59):
to make him basically look at things completely different and
approach things completely different for the greater good of the team.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Last last thing, the jab thing is not just only
about his maturity. It's I think some of it now
is his health. Like he's not healthy, he does he's
he he's getting kicked out of the air. He's not frail,
but say but he's slight. He's a slight slight of body,
so he's taking very hard falls because of the way
(31:29):
he plays. And that's something that's going to be another
lesson for them to do. And actually I meant to,
you know, not necessarily al Filly into this, but I
think another another name that could be thrown about, and
if they wanted to take a chance on another off
injured guy could be Zion. If they're trying to bring
some summonans of electricity, and you know, flare to it,
but now you're banking on two off injured, injured guys.
(31:49):
You know those things. None of those things sound right
to me. I'm really interested seeing what Climate and company
will do this offseason, especially as we had into the
free agent and obviously then being dropted well too.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
One last question, saw just you know, give it to
me straight. Do you see this come come this off season?
Do you see it being John Morant with one or
Jahmorant by himself and two offloaded for the Memphis Grizzlies,
And obviously you know who I'm talking about between those two.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, I think there's a very good chance it's John one.
I don't know which one per se, but I think
they need and want to try to bring some some
sort of fresh blood in here. But I would be
surprised if Joe as a guy that actually gets moved
in any real conversation here. I mean, it would have
to be an offer you couldn't refuse. And I don't
know if find anybody's taking that chance on John right now,
(32:38):
especially with all of his recent injuries and some of
the stuff that he's been dealing with off the court
as well too.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Previously this absolutely your tune to the baseline Calie Warrenshaw
discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Coming up
next on the Slab, we're gonna put my boys favorite.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Team on that.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
We're gonna talk about the Miami Heat as they got flamed.
Uh So, I don't know what that's supposed to look like.
You know what I'm saying. We don't do well with
burnt bodies, but we'll do our best to dissect what
took place with the Miami Heat.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Keep us locked here on the baseline.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
All right, we're back Cali Warrenshaw based one NBA podcast
and time for us to get back into our coveted
autopsy report. Next on the Slab, we're going to talk
about the Miami Heat. This is a team that I
think for Miami Heat fans and Miami Heat culture, they
will stay on the level of resilience and we fought
(33:46):
the good fight, and you know, this is.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
What heat culture, heat heat culture is all about.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
But for I think a lot of everybody else in
the NBA, we're kind of like, damn again, right, you
know what I'm saying, Like, we got to revisit that question, like,
is it good to just only be good enough? Is
it okay at this point to look at what your
(34:14):
roster is comprised of and say, can you see yourself?
Can you picture yourself being a team that's gonna be
among the final four.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
In the NBA? Right?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And it's just it's hard to imagine where that's gonna
happen with the way that the roster is currently constructed.
And there just comes a point Shaw, especially after watching
what the Cleveland Cavaliers did to the Miami Heat, It's
hard for us to imagine in any world that if
you are actually trying to look at this offseason, being
(34:51):
that you have the roster that you have, you cannot
nickel and dime your way into trying to piece together
a championship team.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
This is you can't act. You can't treat this like
you treat the Pittsburgh Steelers. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
At some point you're gonna have to really look at
and sit down and realize that you're you're you're your
top dog, ain't on what it isn't on your roster
at the moment. They need something else, they need somebody else.
It's not gonna be Eric Spostra. They ain't gonna be
pat Riley and you know the silver Hair. You know
(35:32):
what I'm saying, Can you ask your man Bam out
of Bodio about that. There's gonna have to be something
else that's gonna lend itself to really buying into quote
unquote the resurgence of the Heat culture and the Heat Way,
because what's on that roster is not set up for
that kind of to exhibit that kind of level of
(35:53):
culture impact.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
At the moment. They're too they're too proud to bottom out.
And I think that's where this release stems from. And
while Bam had a very much a down year, Tyla
Hero had an up year, But neither one of those
are the lead guys. You know, for an organization, Bam
con lead your defense, but he's just not aggressive enough
and consistent enough offensively to get the reps in there
(36:14):
to kind of like really elevate. Miami will always have
their location as a drawing point for potential free agents
or disgruntled stars. I think the issue is that now,
even if let's say, you know the foremention kemn Durand
wants to go there, is that enough? I think at
this stage with the other surrounding pieces, and they don't
have a whole lot of draft capital in essense to
be able to liquidate to try to do other moves
(36:37):
in here that might make sense for them. But again,
they are a destination. People like the organization and they
love the city itself, so that say, you know, hey,
they're always they'll always have a chance. But we're getting
to the point here now where culture and screaming culture
is just not enough and it's it's it's it's overplayed,
and you know, Spolsuals comments at the end was like, yeah,
(37:00):
we were humbled, and yeah we have a rational confidence
and we thought we had enough, and clearly you did not.
You didn't even have close to enough. You weren't even
in the same stratosphere as the Cleveland Cavaliers. And credit
the Cleveland Cavaliers, and credit the aforementionedal Clomb City Thunder.
Those teams are elite level teams, but the way they
dispatched dispatched of these eight seeds is nothing short of
(37:23):
as an embarrassing for these eight seeds. And there has
been some misses I think on some of the draft
picks up that he'd have had more recently great last year,
not so good this year. Maybe it was injuries, you know,
I don't know. But again, they're just they're pieces, they're
(37:43):
not stars. And that's because you continue to pick in
the middle of the draft or you know, late first
round or whatever the case may be, and you can't
really extrapolate the talent. Well, if they're very good at
talent development, they're not enough to get them to the
next level to truly build around somebody. So despite here
with All Star appearance this year, despite.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
The organization, is nowhere near nowhere near actual tide of contention.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Despite what they rationally may think and what they may
tell you, this is not it and they have a
lot of work to do this off season.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, they have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
But I also think as well to Shaw that like
the timetable for the Heat player to mature and elevate
is no longer defined the same way as what we
looked at with you know, previous Heat rosters, you know,
(38:40):
going all the way back to Dwyane Wade and company.
You know, it was easier for the Miami Heat to
pull together the strays and give them a chance to shine.
And when they shown, when they were exhibiting what they
can do being a part of a good team collectively
having a quality start couple caught quality star veteran guys,
(39:01):
and then they just come in and they just do
all the extra dirty work. Really kind of it, we
suddenly sell the culmination of the heat way, so to speak.
But what I really think you're seeing right now, because
the Miami Heat is expended, expended a lot of time
talking about it rather than seeing the results manifested in
(39:22):
what these guys are supposed to be doing or capable
of doing. I think it speaks to that window of
that you know, that that that probationary period, so to speak,
like Okay, we're gonna continue to keep giving you, let
you ride with the training wheels. At some point we're
taking the training wheels off. And when the training wheels
are eventually taken off, it seems like they're just still
(39:48):
stuck trying to push the pedal and and get moving.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Right. You would think Shaw last year, with what happened
in getting knocked out, should have been motivation to see
a level of aggressiveness and a level of taking onus. Right.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It didn't.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
We didn't need to have Jimmy Butler's antics really kind
of take and distract anything from the fact that we
were still questioning the level of aggressive this in BAM
and also questioning.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
You know, whether or not, even even with the.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
All star numbers at Tyler Hero exhibits, he still needs
somebody next to him to put him in position to
not do what he's not ready to do. He's not
your Steph, he's not your Dame Lillard. The guy's a scorer.
The guys a bona fide score. And if you got
other guys out there that also need assistance getting put
into the right situations in the right place, what you
(40:50):
got is what you saw dribble dribble, dribble, dribble, dancing
with the ball east west, very little north south, and
a lot of it is guys just not knowing where
they need to be. And hey, credit to Dabian Mitchell,
he did kind of what he could. But even then
you saw him doing a lot of what Tyler Hero
was doing, which then make you question again, is he
(41:13):
basically a backup to Tyler or is he actually supposed
to be playing in that point guard position. So you know,
and I know you're gonna say something towards that part
of it and stuff. I'm not you know, I'm not
trying to come down on those guys. I'm just saying that, like,
the realization about what those guys are just isn't like
something that was suddenly exposed because they got the doors
blown out of them playing against the Cleveland Cavaliers. It
(41:35):
just manifests itself on where the lack of prioritization is
coming from the Miami Heat thinking that they've got this
timetable to make it all happen, and they honestly they don't.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, the Heat are and this is gonna sound as
negative as can be, and I don't mean it too,
but they are comprised of a bunch of tryhards, the
effort the hell out of things, and they've been able
to achieve some remarkable success I think within somewhat less
lesser talented rosters in recent years. But the bill comes
do and you know, pat Riley's ego is now starting
(42:08):
to really hinder this franchise in a way where they're
not able to push forward or push reset in a
way that makes sense for them. Well that shouldn't make
sense for them because they have capable guys, but they
don't have the guy or guys in essence to elevate
them to that next.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Sure, I want to ask you this because it's interesting
that you say that, right, the Riley ego, the Riley effect. Okay,
I was listening to ESPN George Sadano on Around the Horn,
and I don't want to misquote him, Okay, I'm just
paraphrasing what I got the gist of, because he made
(42:46):
it a point to push back on people who believe
that the decision making process with the Miami heat On,
you know, the roster and you know, the moves that
they make or don't make, or whatever the case may be,
is all on pat Riley. And he's making it a
point to say that decision does not come unilaterally. That
(43:08):
decision comes with a team of six or seven people
that would also include pat Riley, but he is not
solely making the decision, and he basically is echoing those
his sentiments are echoing to the idea that he's like,
it's kind of annoying that people still get this perception
that pat Riley is still the ship, is you know,
(43:31):
still the captain of that ship sort of speak, It
still drives everything, like everything goes through pat Riley, and
I just wanted to get your perspective on it, because
I am with you Shaw. It's not about saying that
he's making the decision, but you'd be asinine not to
think that he doesn't have a heavy influence on where
(43:51):
the decision making process is driven and what his perceptions
are and if another and whether or not people are
gonna lean more on where pat Riley is because of
his act, his his cachet and his cloud and what
he has done and accomplished. That's the reason why it's
like the Godfather. The guy is at twenty five years old.
He can have demnsia, but if he nods his head,
(44:12):
you know exactly what he's talking about.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
You know what I'm saying, Because he's the Godfather.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Andy Ellisburg is you know, I think the assistant general
manager or something along those lines. So you know he's
he's been with the organization a very very long time
and that level of continuity is something that they continue
to try to rely on and say, hey, you know,
we're the old heads here. We've done this, we've done
this before, we can do it again. And I'm not
here to say the game is passing them by per se.
(44:39):
But you know, they've relied so much on something that
I don't know everybody within the organization still believes in,
you know, and that's that aspect of culture. But I
started this conversation, this autopsy with them saying that they
will always have a chance because of where they're located.
And you know, teams and players players rather will always
have some sumons of interest. So how could you not
(45:01):
have some symblas of an ego when you know players
agents are calling you and say, hey, my guy has
interest in kind of coming down here. The way the
Jimmy Butler situation ended left them a little barren, but
they just needed to get out of it. But I
wouldn't be surprised if you hear Andrew Wiggins names in
trade rumors this summer as they try to do something,
you know, to try to invigorate some life in here.
(45:23):
I mean, why would they not. H But this team
is is probably even worse off than the aforementioned Grizzlies
because they have a history, like they truly do have
a history of winning or being competitive. So they are
not going to reset the team in any way, shape
or form. As long as Pat Roley draws blood in
his veins like it just won't happen. So what's an
aspiration of a competitive heat team with still one of
(45:45):
the best coaches in the NBA and Eric Spolstra. That's
for them to decide, or will they continue to try
to rely on kind of blind luck of Hey, my
player wants to come here, and then do they get
a reset that just kind of naturally happens based on
their little and somewhat of the organizational culture that they build.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I do think to your point, do Shaw, that part
of where that reset is is they have to reimagine,
they have to reimagine the kind of athletes they want
on their roster. Right, you have a colel where Right,
by all accounts, really had a decent, you know, rookie campaign.
You know, he he exhibited, He exhibits traits that remind
(46:27):
you a lot like Derek Lively and dare I say,
may actually have a better you know he has.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
I don't want to say upside.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
I just want to say I think he's a little
bit more polished than Derek Lively because of the opportunities
a little bit he's got. He's got a better all
around game. And has will have more than enough opportunities.
But again, I think part of that is what kind
of offense are you building within and not around, but
within the structure of the players that you have. The
(46:55):
heat lacked the athleticism that other teams clearly are show
you even in the middle of the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
You know what I'm saying, Tyler Hero.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
While the guy can score the basketball, he's not as
athletically gifted. You know what I'm saying, bam Ou to
bay you a little, he's listen, young but still a
little long in the tooth because of all of the
punishment that he exhibits and takes playing what he plays,
because for most part he's been playing at that five position.
He's never really developed to play a swing three four
(47:29):
style offensively, to shoot the basketball with the efficiency that
is required, which I think takes away from that aggressiveness.
So you're seeing a lot of I don't want to
say consistency, but you're seeing a lot of diet. You're
seeing the diametric differences of how some of these guys
originally came into when they were drafted and what they
now show you under the current system. They are now
(47:52):
again I'm not saying this to say this is all
on Expolstra, but let's remember there was a turning point.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
There was a pivot, pivot point with.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
A lot of the coaches that we've said have been
in their roles and positions a lot longer and have
seen the game, you know, evolve into something different than
what they started with, and we did. We said that
with with Mike Malone, We've said that with Greg Popovich.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
They have all had.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
To come to a certain quote unquote come to Jesus
moment and whether it's go overseas, go coach for the
US men's basketball team. You know, operate with a few
different players, a few different star players. See how they operate,
but they have to come back with something when the
off season occurs and say, I got this kind of squad,
(48:41):
I got these kind of guys. I'm gonna need them
to play this kind of way. And I think this
is where you have the opportunity to roll the dice
Shaw Because of the fact that they are a middling team,
they try the head out of everything. You might as
well try with this. Play an up tempo style, get
out of that half court game, run up and down.
If it means you're not going to be as solid defensively.
(49:03):
But something is going to have to give, and whether
it's through the through the roster changes that they you
hope that they make, but I still also think it's
the offensive system that you're going to actually need the
guys to actually try and play. Do something different, create
something different for some of those guys, and then see
whether or not the Tyler heroes, if you still keep Wiggins,
(49:23):
all of these guys, if any of them stay on
what they can actually show you in this new iteration
or this new style, even at the expense of maybe
losing a few more games than necessary.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
I mean, I think Spose a guy who can coach
whatever style, and I think he's tried to go to
the actual personnel of his team. So if you're saying, hey,
they should try to run, because they're supposed to be
one of the most well conditioned teams in the NBA,
while they still don't have athletic guys, well, some of
that is is a conscious decision, is to try to
(49:53):
push the pace to try to get better looks and
early offense, and maybe that could work. You know, with
the current personnel and roster, they would need guys like
Hatka as you need to take a league. They need
like Jokis as well too, to really show consistency. You know,
I think he's shown signs. When nothing, We're like, all right, yeah,
that's you really see it as a long term play there.
(50:13):
But again, we know this team is going to try
to make moves. And if you can trace it back
a couple of years ago where they Dame said he
wanted to go there and then ultimately didn't land there,
you know, they were really cocky and thought, well, because
he wants to go here, this is where we'll go.
And you know, to Portland's credit and to Miami chagrin,
(50:34):
they were just like, nah, it ain't going to go
that way. We want, we want what we want to
do for the besid Ryan tries of our team. Damn
what Dame Lillard Hall of Famer ultimately wants. And while
I don't know if Dame would have franchise altered their
current trajectory and he had even a pair alongside Jimmy
Butler and all that we will will the world will
(50:54):
never know one of the great what ifs you know
of an NBA history, so to speak. But I'll go
back to right and the verbial ego, because he pressed
and pressed and pressed and to some degree extrapolated what
he wanted to get out of Tyler Hero who became
an All Star this year, pressed and pressed and pressed
(51:15):
in a way that offended Jimmy Butler. And whether you
feel like that's good or not, whether Pat Rowley was
right or wrong and Jimmy Butler was right or wrong
either way, that was decisions to be the way that
I guess he's always been ultimately war finn on Jimmy
and caused him to force his way out of that
in a very very ugly divorce. And I think that's
(51:35):
where the Heat organization and Roddy specifically, And I'll be
interested to see when he gives his state of the
Team press conference that he does at the end of
the year, what methodology does he take. Does he press again,
does he you know, call guys out and say, oh,
this guy needs to do this and this guy needs
to do that in a like an overly critical way,
or is it in a constructive way. It's like, hey,
(51:57):
you know, if this guy does this, and then it's
kind of like showing that you have belief that this
person can do it as opposed to ridiculing them publicly.
We'll see if that gets more you know, again, attracts
more bees with the honey, so to speak. But I
don't think that's his way, And that's where I'm just
I just don't know if Mammy is going to get
out of its own way to be a lot better
than we've seen in this nine to ten seed over
(52:19):
the last couple of years.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
What if Shaw, they actually go after players that exhibit
very much the mentality of what Dwayne Wade was like
allnes of mourning, maybe even you know, a Shaquille O'Neal
at that particular time where the the brashness, the confidence
(52:49):
was more exhibited in their style of play. So I'm
thinking like a Yiannis, you know what I'm saying. I'm
thinking like I'm thinking in terms of someone who I
think resembles a mentality that is more self spoken then
(53:10):
because if you kind of think about it, Shaw Bam Mdabad,
who has been the closest player that they have that
quietly goes about the business of doing that work. He
just doesn't do it nearly as aggressively as all previous
great Heat players have shown.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Tyler here is like the first.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Kind of Yeah, you know he he's a little flamboyish,
he's a little I don't want to say weird, he's
just he's just he's outside of the scope of what
the heat usually go for. And maybe they say, Okay,
we've tried this, that's just probably not gonna work. And
if we do this again, it got it's gotta show
like we gotta. So what I'm saying is if they're
(53:49):
gonna roll the dice to your point, Shaw, if they're
gonna push their chips to try to what if they
go after a Yannest like kind of player, a guy
that you know, he don't want to try to say
a whole lot, only what's necessary. Everything is exhibited by
what he shows you on the basketball court, and the
respect that he demands and commands usually falls in line
(54:09):
with what you hear from your president or your owner.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Yeah, but what's the path you know, I know, I.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Know the path that's damn near impossible. But what I'm
saying is, what if that's kind of the mentality the
approach sort of speak about anybody that they're looking to
try and draw and bring in, like in other words,
maybe they thought they could have gotten that with Jimmy,
But you knew that Jimmy was unique, right. You knew
that Jimmy had a I go mile, I do things
(54:36):
my way kind of style. The Heat culture wasn't gonna
stop that, and he knew that the way that he played,
how he plays, how he makes other teams great or successful,
would always resonate and speak louder of what the Miami
Heat was gonna try and say or do. I think
where they parted ways is that it seemed like the
Heat was gonna do the Heat and Jimmy Butler for
the two attempts that they had and getting to the
(54:58):
NBA Finals is like, this ain't working. And the guys
that you think that are actually supposed to be doing
it the way that I'm showing you how to do it,
they ain't gonna do it. So I don't want to
be around this anymore. And I think now that's come
to came to a head because he's the only person
that actually is gonna speak to it and put it
in front of the camera, whereas most guys would have
let it just kind of leak out, kind of let
(55:19):
their agents speak to it, or whatever the case may be.
You know what I'm saying, That's not how Jimmy Butler
operates it. He don't care and you can clearly see
that him now playing for the Golden State Warriors, you
know his hit. Where I think he's most happy is
that they respect what it is that he's trying to say,
because what he's saying abs.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
I don't know. With Miami, it's it's it's a convoluted story,
and they are more they are more complicated than a
lot of the teams we've discussed so far when it
comes to the autopsy, because of their general management, because
of their legacy, head coach, and you know, now some
players who they've kind of cow tied them. So helps
(56:00):
to you because of their organizational structure in terms of
the culture, and that in itself presents issues to try
to move forward. Do they want to have some sort
of a shift? Can they cobble players together? And then
it's interesting that we talk about the Janna situation. I
believe Milwaukee is a second Apron team, So they cannot,
(56:23):
you know, do combined or take back multiple players for trades.
They have to do one for once, so you know
what I mean, Like, there's just so many complications for
Miami to get a star of that level. And I
guess things can happen if people want to ask out,
and then you can get third and even four teams involved.
But I think Miami on its own doesn't have the
(56:43):
mechanisms in place in essence to get to that next
level immediately, and they are too proud to strip it
to the bones and tank. So same bat time, same
bad channel is what I'm predicting next year for this
Miami team. We'll see you in the topsy port in
early early or late April, in early May with another
(57:04):
first round exit.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
Well listen, we got to give it to them, man,
they are consistent about their consistency.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
I love it, Gotta love it, you gotta love it
by a Celtics fan. Couldn't happen to a better team.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
Awesome stuff all together, show great conversations to be had
about both teams man, And again, they're gonna be one
of the more intriguing teams I know, because there there are,
they are who they are that like, only the dedicated
you know, heat and dedicated Grizzly fans are going to
have much to say, per se. But we like seeing
it because we believe in the fact that when they
do what they do, it gives us opportunities for us
(57:43):
to look at it, scrutinize it. And you know, listen,
I want to see these teams successful, man, more so
the Memphis Grizzlies. You know, I've just always been kind
of a fan of that whole GrITT and grind and
just wanting to see them thrive at some point. Would
love to see them position themselves to be a great
team to get to the NBA Finals at some point,
you know what I'm saying. I just hope that they
(58:03):
don't do things in such a way that just kind
of makes them a laughing stock. And I also don't
want them investing a lot of their energy and time
on the perception of what good players might look like
and their culture just doesn't fit for what they want
to do. I think that's listen, man, We got enough
teams that we're going to be talking about come the
course of this year and in the off season, saying
(58:26):
what version of this player that you've decided to keep
on longer than necessary? Are you know, are you willing
to tolerate and take and how much longer do you
want to do that? The expense of probably ruining your
organization or ruining the fan base is confidence in you
as an organization, and so I don't want it to
get to that point for both of these teams. But
and ironically the way that they're structured they do it,
(58:47):
they're doing it in different ways, right, one of the newer,
you know, nuances of doing it and one saying you're
staying into this mentality way too long.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
Yeah. The problem that both these teams have is that
there is not, as currently constructed, another level for the
main guys to reach. I think Hero peaked this year
like this is the best Hero can be. I don't
think there's another level for him. Bam mgress So maybe
say he could get back to the other level, but
that's still not enough for that. And I think Bain,
Jaron Jackson and Jaw are they who we think they
(59:20):
are at this stage. There's not at the levels for them.
So that's why again I can say saying that time,
if they just kind of run it back because there's
not something that's Andy Atkinson you know again, then hit
the casudn't really change the roster, and now he has
a full season to implement whatever he wants implement I
(59:42):
color me shots, but I don't see that happening, and
I think the same thing would spell I think, you know,
at this point, while he could coach pretty much anybody,
this roster doesn't have a whole lot of bandwidth or
upside in it currently. So let's see what Miami Memphis
do this offseason, what teams, what stars become available, and
how based them for a round and ultimately decide to
engage themselves and try to be better for twenty five
(01:00:04):
to twenty six.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Absolutely, as always, Man, we appreciate everybody for hopping on
board with us this week and be sure to get
at us man on all the major channels. You know
where you can find us. We want to hear from
you and what you think about where our perspectives are
regarding the Heat and the Grizzlies respectively. For the baseline,
Calie warren Shaw, we appreciate you guys, you know we do,
(01:00:25):
and we'll catch up with you next time.
What's good. Everybody is your boy cal game face Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And it's me Warrenshaw and we are officially live on millions, y'all.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
That's right, The Baseline NBA podcast is officially live. Just
go to Millions dot co and go to our profile
the Baseline NBA Podcast to check out more dope content
curated just for you.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And if you're looking to book with us, collaborate us,
or get with us in any way, that's the spot
to make sure that that happens, y'all.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Absolutely so be sure to go to millions dot COO
you already know. Keep it real here the Baseline NBA Podcast.
Your boy Cayl gave face Lee and my man Warren
Shaw hit us up on millions.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Don't miss out.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
This is the Baseline discussing the hot button topics of
the NBA. Welcome everybody, your tune to the Baseline Cali,
We warn't y'all discussing hot button topics of the NBA.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
We're back at it again. Autopsy Report Style. Got two
teams to put on the slab. Probably at the code
the way that we decide to go on these two teams.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
One of them you always have to do. What's called
a heat check. Now we have to really do what's
called a heart check for both of these teams. And
Sean knows what I'm talking about. That's why he's smirking
right about now. Ain't because he's happily ready to start
scalping the two teams we're about to dig into an
autopsy report. But it does bring him a sense of
(01:28):
joy in his line of work when we get to
this point of the season.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, these are two cold cases, brother, and two teams
that did not expect to be here this soon. One
of them I'm not a the biggest fan of in general,
and so yeah, I'm I'm a little excited to get
into this optopsy and dig in here and figure out
how we can bring these teams back to life the
twenty five season.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You want to borrow my scalpel, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Go here and just you know just what I'm gonna
get into this.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Hey, well, listen, man, the way that these two teams
got exited out of the NBA Playoffs could probably lend
itself on being well versed on what it's like to
get your your soul snatched right out of your body.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Before you before you could even pass yas.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, these two teams did not have a good showing,
essentially getting swept out of the first round of the playoffs,
and yes they had uphill battles against them, but they
just did not look like good basketball team that they
deserve to be here in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, and I think that's going to be part of
our conversation is when you look at the roster as
it's constructed, when you look at the way that the
teams made decisions down the stretch, and you want to
take it all the way at least to the trade
deadline time frame leading up to what's happened. You know
there's gonna be some good and there's going to be
(02:56):
some bad. So you know, we're really excited about talking
about these two teams because I think shaw it kind
of opens up that, you know, conversation that we're gonna
have about what kind of off season are they really
gonna need to have if we're legitimately talking about sustainable
success for both of these organizations, and the dynamics of
(03:17):
how those teams are constructed certainly is gonna lend itself
to us having those conversations. So can't wait to get
into that and obviously we haven't mentioned the teams because
we're gonna wait till the end to tell you right
before we we gotta hit the hit the hit the
brakes when we do our break and you know, kind
of give it to people and be like, all right,
bills pay Now you'll find out who we're talking about.
But as always, man, appreciate my brother from another mother
(03:40):
hopping on board as always for us to do our
coveted autopsy report. And also the Base on NBA podcast
has been kicking strong for ten plus years. As always,
be sure to get my man sports NBA again me
at game Face leader shows Twitter handle at NBA. Based
on available on all the major platforms, you know where
to find us. If you catch us on the YouTube
channel and you like to say what up, we say
(04:01):
hello to you and yours. And if you see the
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you know that we rocks with nineteen Media Group family.
Nineteen Media Group you running these content streets, so be
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(04:21):
Coming up Sean, I get right into it. Autopsy report.
Two teams being put on a slab this week, we'll
be talking about the Miami Heat and the Memphis Grizzlies.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
You're locked in with us here on the Baseline NBA Podcast. Yes, sir,
it's about that time. Autopsy report, Cali Warrant, y'all base
on NBA podcast, and the first team that we're ready
(04:55):
to put on the slab shot.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
We're gonna start with the Memphis Grizzlies.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I know you might have been licking your chops on
you know what I'm saying, dissecting and fully going through
doing a coveted CSI investigation on the Miami We'll save
We'll save them for the for the end. Let's dig
right into the Memphis Grizzlies. I'm actually intrigued about your
perspective of regarding the Memphis Grizzly Shaw, because we had
(05:25):
a conversation about who was going to take the two
seed in the Western Conference, and I felt like the
way that I had described my perspective of saying that
the Houston Rockets we're gonna probably wind up taking that
second seed wasn't so much of not having confidence on
(05:48):
the other participants that were jockeying for that. The Memphis
uh the you know, the Memphis Grizzlies, the Minnesota Timberwolves,
the Denver Nuggets, the Los Angeles Lakers, the Golden State Warriors,
all of them bunched together.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
But I think I had put emphasis on.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Not as not being as high on the Memphis Grizzlies
because I saw troubling signs that I didn't know whether
or not it was going to really catch up to them.
I think it literally took the two big announcements that
had taken place right one major essentially with what happened
(06:30):
with Taylor Jenkins, and I knew that this was going
to come back to haunt them. I knew that this
was going to come back to haunt them. But I
want to wait a little bit later on show to
talk about where I think that haunting is going to
get them more so than the immediacy. What I wasn't
expecting was the lack of competitive effort that the Memphis
Grizzlies exhibited in this playoff against Oklahoma City Thunder. And
(06:56):
it troubles me because I think it speaks to a
much larger issue that gets back to my haunting.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well, the tail for the Grizzlies for me is kind
of a tale of maybe like almost kind of three seasons.
The beginning of the year, there were all these great
vibes Jazz back and then he started the miss games.
But then they have this really kind of plucky and
unexpected bench and we were so excited about the Grizzlies
(07:30):
are so deep. They're so deep, and we know Sante
al Dama can play basketball, and they were doing this
while Gig Jeckson and Vince Williams Junior, all those guys
were still out. They were you know, Taylor Jenkins has
his team kind of rocking and rolling despite job being
in that lineup. Then there was like even from the vibes,
it kind of even went a little bit higher than that,
because hey, now they're the two seed, as high as
(07:53):
the two seed in the Western Conference, and then you
just started with the whole. All the while, though Jah
Moran is not necess they're playing like the old joh
He's talking about I'm not going to duck anymore, and
all these kind of like weird sub messages are going
out in the media or the case to be, they
need to have a highlight play here or there. You know,
Sharon Jackson Jr. Is playing fairly well throughout the course
(08:13):
of the season, having a nice defensive campaign, and it's
all good. Scotti Goodman Jr. You know, he's doing his thing.
Then came the All Star break, and this team finished
twelve and sixteen after the All Star Break, finished with
a twelve and nineteen record against teams over five hundred
nine games. Before the season ends, they fire Keyler Jenkins
(08:36):
and go into the playoffs as a kind of muddled
mess of a roster that just didn't really seem ready
to compete with the likes of a true title contending
team in Oklahoma City Thunder. So you can scream bad
matchup if you want to, but you cannot scream and
excuse the lack of true, true effort and competitiveness that
(08:57):
was there throughout the course of the series. And John
messlask game and then job missed the last game and
a half, I guess, you know, technically speaking, but they
somehow blew up what was it about twenty seven point lead,
you know in Game three at home and then John
goes down and then ultimately are not really competitive in
Game four after getting the doors blown off of them
in Game one as well too in Oklahoma City. That's
how I see this season. It just little by little
(09:19):
by little by little, they started to just kind of
fall apart, and their warts became just more evident to
all of us and to the entire rest of the NBA,
which now puts them at risk for what many people
are considering, is it time to say, you know what,
this court, this team has run its course, and we're
not We're not team. We're not like, oh, blow it up,
(09:40):
blow it up, blow it up. Remember our guys, the
partner used to rock with us, you know, blow it up.
You know it was dropping the bombs on them, lie
funk flex. But at the same time, this team has
had five seasons and some semblance of continuity. Yes, a
lot of those seasons injury riddled, and I don't know
now that this is a team that you want to
see together, especially with Jaron Jackson. You're now do an
(10:01):
significant payday after next season. All right, So you brought
up so many great points. I want to get to
the haunting real quick, and then I'll let you kind
of chime in and you know, let me know what
you're whether or not you're on board where I'm coming from.
I believe, and I don't want to I don't want
to look at this as saying this is immediacy bias, right,
(10:26):
But I believe the most important attributes that Taylor Jenkins
was able to exhibit as a head coach was figuring
out a way to elevate guys who have been starving
for an opportunity to shine, while at the same time
(10:52):
capitulate to ultimately the star player that everybody was drawn
to and were enamored with because of every dynamic element
that he brought to the game and as exciting as
a player as John Morant is. And I think this
(11:13):
gets missed so badly.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Shaw.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Let's remember the number of times that John Morant had
been out, whether it was because of injury or because
of his own undoing, this Memphis Grizzlies team was still
among one of the most competitive teams in basketball, and
I think a large part of that was that the
team brought more into Taylor Jenkins than just the idea
(11:39):
of the dependency and the star element that John Morant brings.
While John Urrant is a great player and at times
can elevate a team, he can also wear the Superman cape.
And let's call it for what it is. We're not
saying that he's a bad person. We're not saying that,
you know, but the immaturity, the lack of the lack
(12:01):
of awareness wherewithal in recognizing that some of your actions
are self inflicted and also because of that causes collateral
damage at the expense.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Of your team.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I think hit a tipping point, and I think you
saw exactly what I think. Even if Taylor, if you
ask Taylor Jenkins right now, I don't wanna put where's
his mouth, but I'm sure he's saying.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I tried.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
You know what I'm saying. I think this has now
all come to a head. I think now what you're
completely seeing is two separate visions of what this Memphis
Grizzlies team can look like with or without John Morant.
And I think this now also became a time where
you're gonna have to pick a side. You want to
(12:46):
be on the John Morant side of how this team
may look like with him on the roster, or you're
gonna look like what your future was gonna look like,
maybe playing for another team. Cause I'm saying that I
don't know if the parts collectively can do this again.
I don't think that the Desmond Banes, the Jaron Jackson Juniors,
and any of these other guys feel like they're gonna
(13:08):
have a place if this is part of what the
struggle is gonna be like playing under this like, these
guys are gonna need a whole off season together. Not
a whole off season to go and sort out your
feelings and wallowing what happened and getting destroyed by the
Oklahoma City Thunder. You're gonna need a whole off season
of actually being together and understanding each other and being
(13:28):
each other's space because you don't have the luxury of
a head coach who knew how to help put that
together in Taylor Jenkins. And no disrespect to the interim
head coach, who I know that the Memphis Grizzlies are
gonna lean towards, you know, probably keeping on Intomas Lisalo.
But I don't see where he is going to be
able to help make that happen, because he, to me,
(13:51):
doesn't exhibit the type of person that has that characteristic
to lean on the superstar or lean on the other
guys and make it all work. I think he understands
that this may be his moment to shine. So there
could be some you know, self motivated tendencies as well too.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
You think I'm off in my assessment of that part.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think it's just too really we haven't really seen
much of thomasin in this role. Like he's basically what
we have a thirteen game sample basically, you know, for
them being against the Oklahoma City Thunder, who would you know,
pretty much beat the doors off of a lot of
other teams out there. I think just the trollmoil of
the end of the season carried over. And I'll throw
a couple of stats at you. The Memphis Qrizzies finished
(14:32):
sixth on offensive rating and tenth in defensive rating. Post
All Star, they were sixteenth and eighteenth. They are more
the post All Star team than they were the team
that showed you the body work over the eighty two games.
So they're not this really highly efficient offense, you know,
getting open looks, generating looks for everybody. They're not this
kind of really good top ten defense either. Everything fell
(14:55):
off a cliff after post All Star and the fact
that they weren't able to beat anybody with any real substance.
You know post All Star as well too, or throughout
the course of the regular season is a really really
telltale sign. So the questions are is not about just oh,
do we trade trade Jaw? Do we trade Desmond Bane
or Jaron Jackson because we don't want to pay him.
I think it's it's the it's the role delineation, the offensive,
(15:19):
not the philosophical struggle that's happening between the coach and
the general manager now, which you feel like should be
settled now with Tomas kind of in play here as
a head coach. But I'm not sure Jaw is a
is a star level lead your team to a title player.
He's highlight film. He's gonna put butts in seats, So
that's you know, where he has the star power. But
(15:41):
to your point, some of the leadership qualities, I'm not
quite sure that that's exuded in a way that's lifting
all tides of this of this Memphis roster. So when
you look at Jaw, look at Desmond Baine, and look
at Jaron Jackson, I see three guys who are are
probably qualified number twos Jared Jackson maybe even more of
a number three. And I don't know, some people don't
(16:03):
think Desmond ban is all that dope. I think he's
pretty proficient. But you would say, okay, well the three
three number two should be enough to make you competitive.
Then it did get you to forty eight wins, right,
well that's good, but it got your doors blown off,
you know it. It's a team that is elite, you
know when they wrapped up sixty eight wins. I just
don't know that the combination of Baine, Moran and Jackson
(16:24):
Junior are enough to propel this team to the next level.
This questionly the work, but.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Shaw, I'm not even I'm not even saying whether it's
a question of it being enough. I think what I
am saying is it's enough, like we've seen it and
it ain't happening. Okay, I'm just saying from what I'm
looking at, I don't see Jaron Jackson Junior having a
(16:50):
vested interest in trying to run this back again. Whether
or not it means like the Grizzlies have to consider
trading him. I think, yes, you should probably move him
because I think for the style of offense that Tumas
probably wants to run, if it's still gonna include maybe
(17:10):
Bain and definitely gonna include John Morant. It can't be
with Jaron Jackson Jr. I'm sorry, We've said this time
and time again for someone like Jaron Jackson Junior's skill set.
I don't know if it's just mentality or it's just
the way that the system operates. He is someone that
is so lost at times just completely disappears. And remember
(17:33):
we were kind of treading this this this this kind
of this kind of talk about Evan Mobley. The difference
is Evan Mobley has guys that are really colding him
accountable because they truly believe in the upside of his
skill set in where he's playing for for Cleveland. And
what I'm saying is, if we want to salvage the
uniqueness of a Jaron Jackson Jr. Like we salvage a
(17:55):
uniqueness of a Christaps for zingis, it can't be playing
next to John Morant and it can't be playing with
the Memphis Grizzlies under the circumstances that the Memphis Grizzlies
is currently situated.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
That to me is where I'm coming out.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's you're pointing out, you're poorting out Jaron Jackson Jr.
As the guy.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
No, but I can, but I could also make the
argument too as well as the as Desmond ban because
I truly believe the Desmond Bine believes that he is
a one a kind of guy, but he can't operate
in that kind of space playing next to John Moran,
and and I think we've seen that time and time again,
he gets lost because I think he truly believes that
as a vocal leader, and he exhibits it. He's a
(18:33):
vocal leader and expends a lot of energy trying to
keep the guys together, whether Ja Moran is out there
or not. But then we don't see the consistency his
ability to score the basketball because he's not looked at
it like that. To your point, he's kind of like,
you know, everyone's kind of looking like, you know, he's
but he ain't real. He definitely can be real, but
he can't be real playing in that kind of system,
(18:54):
and he can't be real playing with those two guys
next to him. So something has got to give regarding
that trifecta. Going back to what you're talking about, well.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Let's let's let's let's let's analyze that for a quick second. Okay, right,
Because for many people's accounts Triple J here had one
of his best seasons and an offense that was more
friendly and democratic, you know, without Job kind of trippling
the air out of the basketball, as they say. And
(19:22):
I think after they kind of switched the offenses back
to let John Cook maybe a little bit more, Daron
Jackson Junior started to regress a little bit. I'll, i'll, i'll,
I'll go down with the ship and saying that I
don't Jared Jackson cannot lead it, lead you offensively. You know,
he's good and even a plus defender, but he cannot
do those things and then have to lead you, you know,
lead you offensively. We saw points in this series they
(19:44):
were so down bodies that he was even trying to
initiate often sometimes. And what I think, honestly, and I'll
say this, you know, from my own personal opinion, his
game is an aesthetically pleasing and I think that also
kind of takes away from it from from a lot
of people's standpoint. Despite what he's actually producing out there,
the aesthetics of it are just the gain. They just
don't make you say wow, You're like, oh, you know,
(20:05):
kind of like watching the play. But for By and large,
he gets things done. I think they need to decide
what type of offense they want to be. Who is
the primary guy running said offense and like running it
through is it job doing, you know more or less
pick and rolls and drives it and kick out some
spray or is job going to be playing off the
(20:26):
ball a little bit more? And again there's more kind
of autonomous offense that is, you know, kind of trying
to lift all ties as I continue to utilize. I
don't know what the answer to that is right now.
I do know they need to figure it out in
short order. And I will say, you know, we've been
kind of bagging on them in a negative way. There
are some positives in this team because you do have
Scott Pippen Junior, who's going to be I think the next,
(20:48):
you know, one of the next best backup point guards
in the NBA. Like he looks really really worth his sault.
They had an injured season from JJ Jackson, Like, all right,
if he comes back, maybe that's something ZI edy. Yeah,
he's a large, large individual. He's got to learn the
NBA game and how to stay on the floor a
little bit more as well, too. And I think already,
you know, and Jalen Wells as well too, like rookie Sensation,
(21:09):
who's going to be an on all Rookie team. It's
about the injury that he's stuff for towards the end
of the season. So there are some there are pieces here,
but you know, it's hard to talk about those supplemental
parts that are really good that a lot of teams
would actually like without. We can't just glaze over the stars,
if you will, the three potential all stars, but three
potential All stars aren't necessarily three potential superstars, and that's
(21:32):
where the Grozzies are tripping over them.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So so shaw all right, I'm gonna try my best
to show a level of positivity here. Okay, I'm gonna try.
I apologize to you and I'll apologize to our listeners.
If that just doesn't, I means you're not gonna drive. Yeah,
I'm giving a genuine effort here, So just work with
me on this, Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I think one of the reasons why we.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Are we're pleading, we're pleading for the for the Memphis Grizzlies,
you know, in a way of its itself, to get
out of its own way.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Because I think we saw glimpses of a really good
team collectively, but then we've also seen what happens when
we capitulate to the team's mystique or their talents.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Right, Like, I feel like they're airing on this quote
unquote five year window of seeing you know, remarkable glimpses
of these guys doing great things. But it ain't adding up, right,
And so you make a drastic move or a drastic change,
And I just think it comes down to Shaw, It
(22:45):
comes down to the players, bro, Like, what if what
we're saying is that this is about the core guys.
I'm gonna ask you who are the core guys for
the Memphis Grizzlies. Right, you'll definitely say John Morant, and
you want to say Jaren Jackson Junior. But even with
the numbers that he's putting up, you're not confidently saying
(23:07):
you just basically said, he's probably a two guy. He's
a two A kind of guy. He's not your one
A or one B. So, in other words, those numbers
in the consistency of what we're asking of him to
do on a night and night out bas or in
the most important times of sessions, it doesn't add up.
And I'm gonna say this Shaw because I think this
lends itself to where we're looking at the best teams
(23:29):
right now in the NBA, Boston Celtics, Oklahoma City Thunder,
the Cleveland Cavaliers. One of the things, we'll even throw
teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, the New York Knicks, Okay,
and the Denver Nuggets. Do you know what one of
those all of those teams have in common, right? And
what teams like the Houston Rockets and the Memphis Grizzlies.
(23:51):
You may even let's let's go the Golden State Warriors
and are as well as you know what those teams.
They're young, but you know what they're lacking. They're lacking
an elevated level of basketball IQ, one that merits the
idea that they can still contribute. Your star players can
still contribute without only relying on what they've been known
to do. In other words, we know Jaren Jackson Junior
(24:12):
could probably be defensive player of the Year if he
puts his mind to it. But when it doesn't happen
for him on the offensive side of the ball, it
impacts him on the defensive side of the ball. We
know that Desmond Bank could probably be one of the
best shooters in the game, but he isn't aggressive, so
unless the ball gets to him, he doesn't figure out
a way to put himself in spaces where he can
(24:33):
be you know, a as a man Bart Scott from
the ESPNSA a force multiplier on the floor, John Moran.
If the ball isn't in his hands, what else is
he doing?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Right?
Speaker 3 (24:46):
That's what most people will probably be asking. And you're
asking of that of basically three quarters of your starting rotation.
And so I think that, to me is where a
lot of the questions come. It's not that I don't
believe this Memphis Grizzlies team is great, shaw, I just
don't know if they can just collectively be great together.
And I think that is where they're afraid to actually
pull the trigger on that, because it's one thing if
(25:09):
you see those guys out there and they gave their
heart out, and you know, we're saying, man, they're just
not good enough. But we know if they're given an offseason,
they'll get better. When you get blown out the way
that they do, and you can see twenty nine to
thirty point leads to a team that has confidence within itself,
but also is a.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Heady basketball team. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
We're not questioning the upside of what the Oklahoma City
Thunder can do as a team. We're saying that team
is good enough that they can play within themselves and
still impose them will through the course of a game
for four quarters. Can we honestly say that we're gonna
see that from a Houston Rockets or a Memphis Grizzlies team.
And I feel like that's where both of those teams are,
and you're gonna start asking that question about them. The
Houston Rockets, you give them another three years and they
(25:55):
fall short when you see glimpses of good good, good
goodness coming from great players, but not seeing elevated play
when it matters most.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I'm going to kind of close loop here with the
Memphis on this, right. So we've talked about their stats,
We've talked about, you know, the record, We've talked about
even somewhat of the roster construction. We haven't really speculated
about what the move is. We keep talking about the
three guys. But so if you go by today's NBA, right,
I don't know if you have with me, but we
(26:23):
think they have a really good to decent or even
a good to really good decent bench, right, But it's
it's starting with those three guys. One or two of
those guys, maybe go if you're looking at the landscape
of the NBA right now, there's only a handful of
force multipliers, as you said, that could potentially be available.
(26:46):
And I'll give you three names. Kevin Durant in Phoenix
because we know the Sons are going to make changes, right,
and yes, he's gonna flirt with Houston, he's gonna flirt
with with Miami. But should the Grizzlies ultimately try to
get into that conversation in some capacity one way or
the other. Right, there could be something and this is
the least of the least of my favorite here, but
(27:08):
there could be something that you want to do in
Philly with maybe a Paul George rolanbid. I think that's
not going to happen, but you could also you could
also try to persuade Milwaukee and see if the Yana
stuff is going to become available. Obviously we'll talk about
them obviously coming up soon here too. They say, with
the Dan Lillard situation, if Jannis asks out, you know,
(27:29):
is it a Baine and Filler and picks. Is it
a Jaron Jackson? I don't think. I don't think the
contracts were Jackson and Bain, which is obviously what Milwaukee
would probably want, you know, and then to kind of
pair that up, or do you you know, really you know,
throw the world and so cycle and throw jaw and
you know Jackson in there for for Gianni's or something
like that. Like, I don't know, but do any of
(27:51):
those situations sound right to you? Because they are too good,
they cannot They're not going to be able to tank
and strip it down to the studs like they're not
going to They won forty eight games and they have
three potential All Stars on this roster. What do you
do with this team? Do you try to make a
MiG swing? Because because the answer is clearly not just
running it back.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Right, I would think it would make sense to try
to go after Kevin Durant. But I don't see any
I don't see it in any world. And I'm not
saying that I'm questioning whether Kevin Durant believes in playing
next to John Morant.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I just believe it.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I'm only interrupting you because for this one reason, Kevin Durant,
to me, is the worst fit for this for this
roster because Kevin Durant just wants to hoop. He doesn't
want to lead, right. No situation has he ever gone
and wanted to lead anything, right, But he don wants
to hoop, right. I understand that.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
But I think what I'm saying is if you're trying
to keep what you've got from an offensive system standpoint
with Tomas and what he's supposed to be implementing, and
do I don't think he's gonna mind the ball being
in in in Morant's hands. Why Because you have arguably
one of the most efficient scores in the game of basketball,
and John Morant knows that and he can work with that.
(29:02):
You can't get you can't get Yannis. I just don't
see in any world you know why? Because Giannis is
going to demand more from Ja Morant. And maybe Ja
Morant might make it sound like he's down with that,
but let's be real, Okay, in no universe do I
see where John Morant is going to influence the affluence
(29:28):
of Jannis Atizukumpo. So that's the reason why that to
me is a myss now Philadelphia of those three scenarios,
to me, seems like the more middle ground here because
you got basically one or two players who want it
so badly, but they realize John Morant can be that guy.
So all of this really comes down to Shaw on
the prioritization. Does Para and Climbing believe that the future
(29:51):
still goes through John Morant and they are going to
make sure and ensure that John Morant is the future
for the Memphis Grizzlies. And if so, then you proceed
accordingly and you ultimately are gonna have to find other
guys that are going to have to I guess fall
in line with the way that Tumas and Jahn Morant's
(30:12):
relationship is gonna have to evolve.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I think the role players will.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
All kind of do what they do have been doing
in the last four years that the Memphis Grizzlies have
afforded themselves with quality role player guys. But whoever those
next tier guys are, whoever is gonna be that quote
unquote because I think with John Moran, he's a one A,
so there's gonna obviously have to be a two A
and two B kind of players that are gonna concede
on saying you're dex star, you take us to the
(30:38):
Promised Land. I will give you what I can give you.
But shaw, I go back to this again. You're asking
the maturity and you're asking the Grizzlies to buy into.
There will be a different level to John Morant come
this offseason, and all of what has happened is going
(30:59):
to make him basically look at things completely different and
approach things completely different for the greater good of the team.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Last last thing, the jab thing is not just only
about his maturity. It's I think some of it now
is his health. Like he's not healthy, he does he's
he he's getting kicked out of the air. He's not frail,
but say but he's slight. He's a slight slight of body,
so he's taking very hard falls because of the way
(31:29):
he plays. And that's something that's going to be another
lesson for them to do. And actually I meant to,
you know, not necessarily al Filly into this, but I
think another another name that could be thrown about, and
if they wanted to take a chance on another off
injured guy could be Zion. If they're trying to bring
some summonans of electricity, and you know, flare to it,
but now you're banking on two off injured, injured guys.
(31:49):
You know those things. None of those things sound right
to me. I'm really interested seeing what Climate and company
will do this offseason, especially as we had into the
free agent and obviously then being dropted well too.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
One last question, saw just you know, give it to
me straight. Do you see this come come this off season?
Do you see it being John Morant with one or
Jahmorant by himself and two offloaded for the Memphis Grizzlies,
And obviously you know who I'm talking about between those two.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, I think there's a very good chance it's John one.
I don't know which one per se, but I think
they need and want to try to bring some some
sort of fresh blood in here. But I would be
surprised if Joe as a guy that actually gets moved
in any real conversation here. I mean, it would have
to be an offer you couldn't refuse. And I don't
know if find anybody's taking that chance on John right now,
(32:38):
especially with all of his recent injuries and some of
the stuff that he's been dealing with off the court
as well too.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Previously this absolutely your tune to the baseline Calie Warrenshaw
discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Coming up
next on the Slab, we're gonna put my boys favorite.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Team on that.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
We're gonna talk about the Miami Heat as they got flamed.
Uh So, I don't know what that's supposed to look like.
You know what I'm saying. We don't do well with
burnt bodies, but we'll do our best to dissect what
took place with the Miami Heat.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Keep us locked here on the baseline.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
All right, we're back Cali Warrenshaw based one NBA podcast
and time for us to get back into our coveted
autopsy report. Next on the Slab, we're going to talk
about the Miami Heat. This is a team that I
think for Miami Heat fans and Miami Heat culture, they
will stay on the level of resilience and we fought
(33:46):
the good fight, and you know, this is.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
What heat culture, heat heat culture is all about.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
But for I think a lot of everybody else in
the NBA, we're kind of like, damn again, right, you
know what I'm saying, Like, we got to revisit that question, like,
is it good to just only be good enough? Is
it okay at this point to look at what your
(34:14):
roster is comprised of and say, can you see yourself?
Can you picture yourself being a team that's gonna be
among the final four.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
In the NBA? Right?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And it's just it's hard to imagine where that's gonna
happen with the way that the roster is currently constructed.
And there just comes a point Shaw, especially after watching
what the Cleveland Cavaliers did to the Miami Heat, It's
hard for us to imagine in any world that if
you are actually trying to look at this offseason, being
(34:51):
that you have the roster that you have, you cannot
nickel and dime your way into trying to piece together
a championship team.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
This is you can't act. You can't treat this like
you treat the Pittsburgh Steelers. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
At some point you're gonna have to really look at
and sit down and realize that you're you're you're your
top dog, ain't on what it isn't on your roster
at the moment. They need something else, they need somebody else.
It's not gonna be Eric Spostra. They ain't gonna be
pat Riley and you know the silver Hair. You know
(35:32):
what I'm saying, Can you ask your man Bam out
of Bodio about that. There's gonna have to be something
else that's gonna lend itself to really buying into quote
unquote the resurgence of the Heat culture and the Heat Way,
because what's on that roster is not set up for
that kind of to exhibit that kind of level of
(35:53):
culture impact.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
At the moment. They're too they're too proud to bottom out.
And I think that's where this release stems from. And
while Bam had a very much a down year, Tyla
Hero had an up year, But neither one of those
are the lead guys. You know, for an organization, Bam
con lead your defense, but he's just not aggressive enough
and consistent enough offensively to get the reps in there
(36:14):
to kind of like really elevate. Miami will always have
their location as a drawing point for potential free agents
or disgruntled stars. I think the issue is that now,
even if let's say, you know the foremention kemn Durand
wants to go there, is that enough? I think at
this stage with the other surrounding pieces, and they don't
have a whole lot of draft capital in essense to
be able to liquidate to try to do other moves
(36:37):
in here that might make sense for them. But again,
they are a destination. People like the organization and they
love the city itself, so that say, you know, hey,
they're always they'll always have a chance. But we're getting
to the point here now where culture and screaming culture
is just not enough and it's it's it's it's overplayed,
and you know, Spolsuals comments at the end was like, yeah,
(37:00):
we were humbled, and yeah we have a rational confidence
and we thought we had enough, and clearly you did not.
You didn't even have close to enough. You weren't even
in the same stratosphere as the Cleveland Cavaliers. And credit
the Cleveland Cavaliers, and credit the aforementionedal Clomb City Thunder.
Those teams are elite level teams, but the way they
dispatched dispatched of these eight seeds is nothing short of
(37:23):
as an embarrassing for these eight seeds. And there has
been some misses I think on some of the draft
picks up that he'd have had more recently great last year,
not so good this year. Maybe it was injuries, you know,
I don't know. But again, they're just they're pieces, they're
(37:43):
not stars. And that's because you continue to pick in
the middle of the draft or you know, late first
round or whatever the case may be, and you can't
really extrapolate the talent. Well, if they're very good at
talent development, they're not enough to get them to the
next level to truly build around somebody. So despite here
with All Star appearance this year, despite.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
The organization, is nowhere near nowhere near actual tide of contention.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Despite what they rationally may think and what they may
tell you, this is not it and they have a
lot of work to do this off season.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, they have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
But I also think as well to Shaw that like
the timetable for the Heat player to mature and elevate
is no longer defined the same way as what we
looked at with you know, previous Heat rosters, you know,
(38:40):
going all the way back to Dwyane Wade and company.
You know, it was easier for the Miami Heat to
pull together the strays and give them a chance to shine.
And when they shown, when they were exhibiting what they
can do being a part of a good team collectively
having a quality start couple caught quality star veteran guys,
(39:01):
and then they just come in and they just do
all the extra dirty work. Really kind of it, we
suddenly sell the culmination of the heat way, so to speak.
But what I really think you're seeing right now, because
the Miami Heat is expended, expended a lot of time
talking about it rather than seeing the results manifested in
(39:22):
what these guys are supposed to be doing or capable
of doing. I think it speaks to that window of
that you know, that that that probationary period, so to speak,
like Okay, we're gonna continue to keep giving you, let
you ride with the training wheels. At some point we're
taking the training wheels off. And when the training wheels
are eventually taken off, it seems like they're just still
(39:48):
stuck trying to push the pedal and and get moving.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Right. You would think Shaw last year, with what happened
in getting knocked out, should have been motivation to see
a level of aggressiveness and a level of taking onus. Right.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It didn't.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
We didn't need to have Jimmy Butler's antics really kind
of take and distract anything from the fact that we
were still questioning the level of aggressive this in BAM
and also questioning.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
You know, whether or not, even even with the.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
All star numbers at Tyler Hero exhibits, he still needs
somebody next to him to put him in position to
not do what he's not ready to do. He's not
your Steph, he's not your Dame Lillard. The guy's a scorer.
The guys a bona fide score. And if you got
other guys out there that also need assistance getting put
into the right situations in the right place, what you
(40:50):
got is what you saw dribble dribble, dribble, dribble, dancing
with the ball east west, very little north south, and
a lot of it is guys just not knowing where
they need to be. And hey, credit to Dabian Mitchell,
he did kind of what he could. But even then
you saw him doing a lot of what Tyler Hero
was doing, which then make you question again, is he
(41:13):
basically a backup to Tyler or is he actually supposed
to be playing in that point guard position. So you know,
and I know you're gonna say something towards that part
of it and stuff. I'm not you know, I'm not
trying to come down on those guys. I'm just saying that, like,
the realization about what those guys are just isn't like
something that was suddenly exposed because they got the doors
blown out of them playing against the Cleveland Cavaliers. It
(41:35):
just manifests itself on where the lack of prioritization is
coming from the Miami Heat thinking that they've got this
timetable to make it all happen, and they honestly they don't.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, the Heat are and this is gonna sound as
negative as can be, and I don't mean it too,
but they are comprised of a bunch of tryhards, the
effort the hell out of things, and they've been able
to achieve some remarkable success I think within somewhat less
lesser talented rosters in recent years. But the bill comes
do and you know, pat Riley's ego is now starting
(42:08):
to really hinder this franchise in a way where they're
not able to push forward or push reset in a
way that makes sense for them. Well that shouldn't make
sense for them because they have capable guys, but they
don't have the guy or guys in essence to elevate
them to that next.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Sure, I want to ask you this because it's interesting
that you say that, right, the Riley ego, the Riley effect. Okay,
I was listening to ESPN George Sadano on Around the Horn,
and I don't want to misquote him, Okay, I'm just
paraphrasing what I got the gist of, because he made
(42:46):
it a point to push back on people who believe
that the decision making process with the Miami heat On,
you know, the roster and you know, the moves that
they make or don't make, or whatever the case may be,
is all on pat Riley. And he's making it a
point to say that decision does not come unilaterally. That
(43:08):
decision comes with a team of six or seven people
that would also include pat Riley, but he is not
solely making the decision, and he basically is echoing those
his sentiments are echoing to the idea that he's like,
it's kind of annoying that people still get this perception
that pat Riley is still the ship, is you know,
(43:31):
still the captain of that ship sort of speak, It
still drives everything, like everything goes through pat Riley, and
I just wanted to get your perspective on it, because
I am with you Shaw. It's not about saying that
he's making the decision, but you'd be asinine not to
think that he doesn't have a heavy influence on where
(43:51):
the decision making process is driven and what his perceptions
are and if another and whether or not people are
gonna lean more on where pat Riley is because of
his act, his his cachet and his cloud and what
he has done and accomplished. That's the reason why it's
like the Godfather. The guy is at twenty five years old.
He can have demnsia, but if he nods his head,
(44:12):
you know exactly what he's talking about.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
You know what I'm saying, Because he's the Godfather.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Andy Ellisburg is you know, I think the assistant general
manager or something along those lines. So you know he's
he's been with the organization a very very long time
and that level of continuity is something that they continue
to try to rely on and say, hey, you know,
we're the old heads here. We've done this, we've done
this before, we can do it again. And I'm not
here to say the game is passing them by per se.
(44:39):
But you know, they've relied so much on something that
I don't know everybody within the organization still believes in,
you know, and that's that aspect of culture. But I
started this conversation, this autopsy with them saying that they
will always have a chance because of where they're located.
And you know, teams and players players rather will always
have some sumons of interest. So how could you not
(45:01):
have some symblas of an ego when you know players
agents are calling you and say, hey, my guy has
interest in kind of coming down here. The way the
Jimmy Butler situation ended left them a little barren, but
they just needed to get out of it. But I
wouldn't be surprised if you hear Andrew Wiggins names in
trade rumors this summer as they try to do something,
you know, to try to invigorate some life in here.
(45:23):
I mean, why would they not. H But this team
is is probably even worse off than the aforementioned Grizzlies
because they have a history, like they truly do have
a history of winning or being competitive. So they are
not going to reset the team in any way, shape
or form. As long as Pat Roley draws blood in
his veins like it just won't happen. So what's an
aspiration of a competitive heat team with still one of
(45:45):
the best coaches in the NBA and Eric Spolstra. That's
for them to decide, or will they continue to try
to rely on kind of blind luck of Hey, my
player wants to come here, and then do they get
a reset that just kind of naturally happens based on
their little and somewhat of the organizational culture that they build.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I do think to your point, do Shaw, that part
of where that reset is is they have to reimagine,
they have to reimagine the kind of athletes they want
on their roster. Right, you have a colel where Right,
by all accounts, really had a decent, you know, rookie campaign.
You know, he he exhibited, He exhibits traits that remind
(46:27):
you a lot like Derek Lively and dare I say,
may actually have a better you know he has.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
I don't want to say upside.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
I just want to say I think he's a little
bit more polished than Derek Lively because of the opportunities
a little bit he's got. He's got a better all
around game. And has will have more than enough opportunities.
But again, I think part of that is what kind
of offense are you building within and not around, but
within the structure of the players that you have. The
(46:55):
heat lacked the athleticism that other teams clearly are show
you even in the middle of the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
You know what I'm saying, Tyler Hero.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
While the guy can score the basketball, he's not as
athletically gifted. You know what I'm saying, bam Ou to
bay you a little, he's listen, young but still a
little long in the tooth because of all of the
punishment that he exhibits and takes playing what he plays,
because for most part he's been playing at that five position.
He's never really developed to play a swing three four
(47:29):
style offensively, to shoot the basketball with the efficiency that
is required, which I think takes away from that aggressiveness.
So you're seeing a lot of I don't want to
say consistency, but you're seeing a lot of diet. You're
seeing the diametric differences of how some of these guys
originally came into when they were drafted and what they
now show you under the current system. They are now
(47:52):
again I'm not saying this to say this is all
on Expolstra, but let's remember there was a turning point.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
There was a pivot, pivot point with.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
A lot of the coaches that we've said have been
in their roles and positions a lot longer and have
seen the game, you know, evolve into something different than
what they started with, and we did. We said that
with with Mike Malone, We've said that with Greg Popovich.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
They have all had.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
To come to a certain quote unquote come to Jesus
moment and whether it's go overseas, go coach for the
US men's basketball team. You know, operate with a few
different players, a few different star players. See how they operate,
but they have to come back with something when the
off season occurs and say, I got this kind of squad,
(48:41):
I got these kind of guys. I'm gonna need them
to play this kind of way. And I think this
is where you have the opportunity to roll the dice
Shaw Because of the fact that they are a middling team,
they try the head out of everything. You might as
well try with this. Play an up tempo style, get
out of that half court game, run up and down.
If it means you're not going to be as solid defensively.
(49:03):
But something is going to have to give, and whether
it's through the through the roster changes that they you
hope that they make, but I still also think it's
the offensive system that you're going to actually need the
guys to actually try and play. Do something different, create
something different for some of those guys, and then see
whether or not the Tyler heroes, if you still keep Wiggins,
(49:23):
all of these guys, if any of them stay on
what they can actually show you in this new iteration
or this new style, even at the expense of maybe
losing a few more games than necessary.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
I mean, I think Spose a guy who can coach
whatever style, and I think he's tried to go to
the actual personnel of his team. So if you're saying, hey,
they should try to run, because they're supposed to be
one of the most well conditioned teams in the NBA,
while they still don't have athletic guys, well, some of
that is is a conscious decision, is to try to
(49:53):
push the pace to try to get better looks and
early offense, and maybe that could work. You know, with
the current personnel and roster, they would need guys like
Hatka as you need to take a league. They need
like Jokis as well too, to really show consistency. You know,
I think he's shown signs. When nothing, We're like, all right, yeah,
that's you really see it as a long term play there.
(50:13):
But again, we know this team is going to try
to make moves. And if you can trace it back
a couple of years ago where they Dame said he
wanted to go there and then ultimately didn't land there,
you know, they were really cocky and thought, well, because
he wants to go here, this is where we'll go.
And you know, to Portland's credit and to Miami chagrin,
(50:34):
they were just like, nah, it ain't going to go
that way. We want, we want what we want to
do for the besid Ryan tries of our team. Damn
what Dame Lillard Hall of Famer ultimately wants. And while
I don't know if Dame would have franchise altered their
current trajectory and he had even a pair alongside Jimmy
Butler and all that we will will the world will
(50:54):
never know one of the great what ifs you know
of an NBA history, so to speak. But I'll go
back to right and the verbial ego, because he pressed
and pressed and pressed and to some degree extrapolated what
he wanted to get out of Tyler Hero who became
an All Star this year, pressed and pressed and pressed
(51:15):
in a way that offended Jimmy Butler. And whether you
feel like that's good or not, whether Pat Rowley was
right or wrong and Jimmy Butler was right or wrong
either way, that was decisions to be the way that
I guess he's always been ultimately war finn on Jimmy
and caused him to force his way out of that
in a very very ugly divorce. And I think that's
(51:35):
where the Heat organization and Roddy specifically, And I'll be
interested to see when he gives his state of the
Team press conference that he does at the end of
the year, what methodology does he take. Does he press again,
does he you know, call guys out and say, oh,
this guy needs to do this and this guy needs
to do that in a like an overly critical way,
or is it in a constructive way. It's like, hey,
(51:57):
you know, if this guy does this, and then it's
kind of like showing that you have belief that this
person can do it as opposed to ridiculing them publicly.
We'll see if that gets more you know, again, attracts
more bees with the honey, so to speak. But I
don't think that's his way, And that's where I'm just
I just don't know if Mammy is going to get
out of its own way to be a lot better
than we've seen in this nine to ten seed over
(52:19):
the last couple of years.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
What if Shaw, they actually go after players that exhibit
very much the mentality of what Dwayne Wade was like
allnes of mourning, maybe even you know, a Shaquille O'Neal
at that particular time where the the brashness, the confidence
(52:49):
was more exhibited in their style of play. So I'm
thinking like a Yiannis, you know what I'm saying. I'm
thinking like I'm thinking in terms of someone who I
think resembles a mentality that is more self spoken then
(53:10):
because if you kind of think about it, Shaw Bam Mdabad,
who has been the closest player that they have that
quietly goes about the business of doing that work. He
just doesn't do it nearly as aggressively as all previous
great Heat players have shown.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Tyler here is like the first.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Kind of Yeah, you know he he's a little flamboyish,
he's a little I don't want to say weird, he's
just he's just he's outside of the scope of what
the heat usually go for. And maybe they say, Okay,
we've tried this, that's just probably not gonna work. And
if we do this again, it got it's gotta show
like we gotta. So what I'm saying is if they're
(53:49):
gonna roll the dice to your point, Shaw, if they're
gonna push their chips to try to what if they
go after a Yannest like kind of player, a guy
that you know, he don't want to try to say
a whole lot, only what's necessary. Everything is exhibited by
what he shows you on the basketball court, and the
respect that he demands and commands usually falls in line
(54:09):
with what you hear from your president or your owner.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Yeah, but what's the path you know, I know, I.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Know the path that's damn near impossible. But what I'm
saying is, what if that's kind of the mentality the
approach sort of speak about anybody that they're looking to
try and draw and bring in, like in other words,
maybe they thought they could have gotten that with Jimmy,
But you knew that Jimmy was unique, right. You knew
that Jimmy had a I go mile, I do things
(54:36):
my way kind of style. The Heat culture wasn't gonna
stop that, and he knew that the way that he played,
how he plays, how he makes other teams great or successful,
would always resonate and speak louder of what the Miami
Heat was gonna try and say or do. I think
where they parted ways is that it seemed like the
Heat was gonna do the Heat and Jimmy Butler for
the two attempts that they had and getting to the
(54:58):
NBA Finals is like, this ain't working. And the guys
that you think that are actually supposed to be doing
it the way that I'm showing you how to do it,
they ain't gonna do it. So I don't want to
be around this anymore. And I think now that's come
to came to a head because he's the only person
that actually is gonna speak to it and put it
in front of the camera, whereas most guys would have
let it just kind of leak out, kind of let
(55:19):
their agents speak to it, or whatever the case may be.
You know what I'm saying, That's not how Jimmy Butler
operates it. He don't care and you can clearly see
that him now playing for the Golden State Warriors, you
know his hit. Where I think he's most happy is
that they respect what it is that he's trying to say,
because what he's saying abs.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
I don't know. With Miami, it's it's it's a convoluted story,
and they are more they are more complicated than a
lot of the teams we've discussed so far when it
comes to the autopsy, because of their general management, because
of their legacy, head coach, and you know, now some
players who they've kind of cow tied them. So helps
(56:00):
to you because of their organizational structure in terms of
the culture, and that in itself presents issues to try
to move forward. Do they want to have some sort
of a shift? Can they cobble players together? And then
it's interesting that we talk about the Janna situation. I
believe Milwaukee is a second Apron team, So they cannot,
(56:23):
you know, do combined or take back multiple players for trades.
They have to do one for once, so you know
what I mean, Like, there's just so many complications for
Miami to get a star of that level. And I
guess things can happen if people want to ask out,
and then you can get third and even four teams involved.
But I think Miami on its own doesn't have the
(56:43):
mechanisms in place in essence to get to that next
level immediately, and they are too proud to strip it
to the bones and tank. So same bat time, same
bad channel is what I'm predicting next year for this
Miami team. We'll see you in the topsy port in
early early or late April, in early May with another
(57:04):
first round exit.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
Well listen, we got to give it to them, man,
they are consistent about their consistency.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
I love it, Gotta love it, you gotta love it
by a Celtics fan. Couldn't happen to a better team.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
Awesome stuff all together, show great conversations to be had
about both teams man, And again, they're gonna be one
of the more intriguing teams I know, because there there are,
they are who they are that like, only the dedicated
you know, heat and dedicated Grizzly fans are going to
have much to say, per se. But we like seeing
it because we believe in the fact that when they
do what they do, it gives us opportunities for us
(57:43):
to look at it, scrutinize it. And you know, listen,
I want to see these teams successful, man, more so
the Memphis Grizzlies. You know, I've just always been kind
of a fan of that whole GrITT and grind and
just wanting to see them thrive at some point. Would
love to see them position themselves to be a great
team to get to the NBA Finals at some point,
you know what I'm saying. I just hope that they
(58:03):
don't do things in such a way that just kind
of makes them a laughing stock. And I also don't
want them investing a lot of their energy and time
on the perception of what good players might look like
and their culture just doesn't fit for what they want
to do. I think that's listen, man, We got enough
teams that we're going to be talking about come the
course of this year and in the off season, saying
(58:26):
what version of this player that you've decided to keep
on longer than necessary? Are you know, are you willing
to tolerate and take and how much longer do you
want to do that? The expense of probably ruining your
organization or ruining the fan base is confidence in you
as an organization, and so I don't want it to
get to that point for both of these teams. But
and ironically the way that they're structured they do it,
(58:47):
they're doing it in different ways, right, one of the newer,
you know, nuances of doing it and one saying you're
staying into this mentality way too long.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
Yeah. The problem that both these teams have is that
there is not, as currently constructed, another level for the
main guys to reach. I think Hero peaked this year
like this is the best Hero can be. I don't
think there's another level for him. Bam mgress So maybe
say he could get back to the other level, but
that's still not enough for that. And I think Bain,
Jaron Jackson and Jaw are they who we think they
(59:20):
are at this stage. There's not at the levels for them.
So that's why again I can say saying that time,
if they just kind of run it back because there's
not something that's Andy Atkinson you know again, then hit
the casudn't really change the roster, and now he has
a full season to implement whatever he wants implement I
(59:42):
color me shots, but I don't see that happening, and
I think the same thing would spell I think, you know,
at this point, while he could coach pretty much anybody,
this roster doesn't have a whole lot of bandwidth or
upside in it currently. So let's see what Miami Memphis
do this offseason, what teams, what stars become available, and
how based them for a round and ultimately decide to
engage themselves and try to be better for twenty five
(01:00:04):
to twenty six.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Absolutely, as always, Man, we appreciate everybody for hopping on
board with us this week and be sure to get
at us man on all the major channels. You know
where you can find us. We want to hear from
you and what you think about where our perspectives are
regarding the Heat and the Grizzlies respectively. For the baseline,
Calie warren Shaw, we appreciate you guys, you know we do,
(01:00:25):
and we'll catch up with you next time.
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