June 2, 2025 • 46 mins
In this week's episode of The Baseline NBA Podcast, we delve into the highly anticipated 2025 NBA Finals matchup between the Indiana Pacers and the Oklahoma City Thunder. This series features two of the youngest teams in NBA history competing for the championship, showcasing a clash between the Pacers' high-octane offense and the Thunder's elite defense. We analyze the Pacers' fast-paced offensive strategies, led by their dynamic young core, and how they plan to penetrate the Thunder's formidable defense, which has been statistically one of the best in the modern era. Conversely, we examine how the Thunder's disciplined defensive schemes aim to disrupt the Pacers' rhythm and capitalize on transition opportunities. Key Discussion Points:
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- Breakdown of team strategies and key player matchups
- Impact of coaching decisions and adjustments
- Historical context of young teams in the NBA Finals
- Predictions and X-factors that could determine the series outcome
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's good. Everybody is your boy cal game face Lee.
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And it's me Warrenshaw and we are officially live on millions, y'all.
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Keep it real here the Baseline NBA Podcast. Your boy
Cayl gave face Lee and my man warren Shaw hit
us up on millions.
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Don't miss out.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
This is the Baseline discussing the hot button topics.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Of the NBA.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Welcome everybody here, Tune to the Baseline Cali Warrenshaw discussing
the hot button topics of the NBA And we are
finally here.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
The table is set. NBA Finals is.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Now upon us and it will be Indiana Pacers taking
on the Oklahoma City Thunder. And I am sure the
NBA pundits those who are about the big ratings when
it comes to watching NBA Playoff Basketball, NBA Finals, basketball
(01:25):
sports entertainment are just shrugging their shoulders and are just
kind of like, WTF. But you know what, Sean, I
we here for it. And I'm pretty sure that if
you were watching the whole NBA Playoffs run for both
of these seams, respectively, you would be here for it
as well too. And it's only apropos if we come
(01:46):
to this point of the of the NBA season, it's
culminated that it arguably would be the two best playing
teams that are going into the NBA Finals, and not
simply because of the names.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
So let me go and rot the red carpet. I'm
my right hand man.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Www, dots that that net big OUNIPNC, My man ister
wone shar ripping out of Fort Laidale, Florida.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
What's good? My brother?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
That smirk on your face is telling me that you
about about it. So I'm supposing that we're gonna feel
good about our discussion in previewing the NBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I just love basketball, and I love the surprises that
this NBA season has has given us and bestowed upon us.
For what I'm calling the unexpected NBA Finals and and
that's not to be dismissive in any way. I just think,
you know, the betting odds makers did not have Indiana
and Okay see as your NBA finalists. Like just there's
just it just didn't happen. So the internet pacers have
(02:41):
gone on to you know, really prove me wrong, you know,
in a variety of ways over the course of the season.
And it's fun. Like I'm excited about, you know, the
opportunities here. So uh, I just listen, I'm just excited
to talk basketball, the NBA Finals or upon us. It's
been a long, long and very interesting and peculiar season,
and I think there's this apropos, if you will, that
(03:02):
we're getting something that we didn't expect as the NBA
Finals here in the jew.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Look, you're my boy, right, We've been doing this for
quite some time. And I don't want to be labor
our conversation because I do want the attention to be
on the things that we are looking forward to with
regards to this matchup, which I really think is about
as intriguing a matchup as you will probably get over
the last five years. As far as the dynamics of
what these two teams bring to the table. But I
(03:30):
know that you've been saying, hey, you know, they proved
me wrong. Look, you just weren't a believer in the
Indiana Pacers and the makeup of this team in comparison
to what we essentially have said were among the better teams.
But what I am appreciating about what the NBA has
done through the course of this year and what we're
(03:50):
actually seeing with the implementation and the way that things
have changed and evolved.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
They want there too.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
They want parody, right, And while a lot of people
are pulling the idea of it, this is why you
want the parody, and you want the parody kind of
as a precursor. You want it, you know, reflective in
what we're seeing as you're going through that process of
watching an NBA season. I don't think you would have
just instantly said the Indiana Pacers given what they showed
(04:17):
us at the beginning of the season to what they
look like at the end of the season with minimal changes.
It was more of like it was a wake up call.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So I'm not gonna sit there and let you just
basically be like yo, Shaw, you know, yeah, that's right,
you were completely off on it, or whatever the case
may be. They had a lot of proving to do right,
because I think a lot of people had a right
to feel like this was kind of an overrated team
or maybe they overachieved because they just did not come
out looking like the team that surprised this last year.
(04:46):
And it's not like we haven't seen that before. Now,
with all that being said, we were kind of questioning
whether or not, okaysee, was that team right because they
underachieved last year. Right, people didn't buy into them being
that number one seed. They come out to Gate, they're
among the best teams going, and they hit a stump
in a road a couple of times when they dealt
with the Cleveland Cavaliers. People believed that the Cleveland Cavaliers
(05:07):
were the best team.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
When we saw that matchup earlier this year and we
start the Cleveland Cavaliers, it's basically take them to the
tool shed at the land and then OKAC showed us
their resiliency. They showed us that they learned from their mistakes,
they learned from the losses that they took. They came
back and they just basically put a spanking on Cleveland,
and then we said to ourselves, oh wow, Now the
(05:28):
question is, are the Boss and Celtics, you know, in
a position where they can actually repeat because it just
looks like, if Okac is that kind of team, are
the Celtics really about being that type of team to
defend their championship?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
So there were so.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Many storylines going on, Shaw and this is what I
love that we have gotten it to this point where
we can truly say, you know what, when it was
all said and done, when we wipe all of this
down and you take off all the injuries and all
the excuses. The Pacers were one of the hottest teams
in the second half of the season, and they carried
it into the playoffs and they won the games that
(06:02):
mattered the most to get them to this point, the
Oklahoma City Thunder. For them to be as viable as
a finals participant, they had to go through a roadblock,
and that roadblock was one of the former champions into
Denver Nuggets. I think that series proved to us that
if they go out and do what they were put
(06:22):
together to do, they would be one of the best
teams in the NBA and would be one of the
participants in the NBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, he said a lot. And I'll actually want to
throw it back to the aspect of these two teams
doing what they needed to do Keith Smith front of
the show, and a lot of I think of the
smarter NBA podcasts and ones that are not just kind
of like clickbaitio case to b. They've latched onto this
tweet by Keith Smith where he indicated that this is
(06:49):
going to be the first NBA Finals in the luxury
tax era, that both teams were not luxury tax players.
So this is smart team building, rafting, coaching, player development,
all of the things, and none of these teams and
it's not they won't be this way forever, but as
of this NBA Finals, none of these teams, neither of
(07:11):
these two teams are luxury tax players. That is amazing,
and that is amazing, and I think you know, okay,
see and Indiana, they they made really smart trades obviously, Okay,
see getting SGA in Paul George trade. There's the Paul
George angle down a lot of NBA twitter is hanging
on to as well too. These are two or two
former Paul George teams as well. But then the Halliburton
(07:31):
for Sabona trade you know, from Indiana, then they get
Siakam the next year later, or what are the case
they be? Like really well constructed teams who deserve to
be here. And I'm not taking anything away from them
anymore at all in any aspector or or any way
for them because I love I love basketball. I love
that these two teams represent basketball. And while it's not
(07:52):
the air quot sexiest finals in terms of market size
or what are the cases be, these are the two
best teams standing. And that's what you will.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Listen for all these people out there that love, you know,
to inject you know, quote unquote the the trash talking
aspect of what we what we do and what I'm
what I'm talking about is you look at these teams
and they don't exhibit quote unquote the star power that
I think people are trying, you know, to elevate when
(08:22):
we attach ourselves to the NBA and the marketability of
the NBA.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
But look at these two teams.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Shaw, these are thoroughbreds, right The Oklahoma City Thunder have
proven that they can run with any team if they
want to. Notice I said, if they want to. But
they don't have to. They believe that they're good enough
that if you want to go half court, we can
half court you. You want to go all out track meet,
(08:50):
we can run with you. And we'll run with you
fifteen deep if we have to write. They're players that
showed up in this Western Conference Finals that you probably
have not heard their names up until they got into
the playoffs and their dagonault and you know, you can
clearly tell that he's elevated himself as a coach and
(09:12):
when he is implementing and deploying the roster and what
he needs his guys to go out and do, and
they're going out and doing it. The caseon Wallace's the
Kendrick Williams. These dudes, you don't hear them all throughout
the but he's played them. He's played them if you
were paying attention to them, and they found minutes. He
found minutes for them critical situations where it was needed,
(09:35):
not about just giving guys a blow, not out of
necessity or desperation, but out of the strategic aspect of
what the OKC thunder needed to do for them to
win a game or win a series. And that to me,
it speaks bothers. And I give the same credit to
Rick Carlisle when he felt like a matchup was not
in his favor, even if he had marginally playable guys,
(09:57):
he still put them out there with confidence that they
are doing something that is going to benefit them when
it came down to closing out that series against the
New York Knicks, And that, to me is the kind
of things you want to see coming into an NBA Finals.
Were all of these components that you're measuring up and
trying to say who has the advantage of this that?
And the third if it's not being shown or implemented
(10:18):
any course through their run, it will always be a
question mark and will always probably be against them if
it's not being displayed at some point.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, I think that's another great point. These are also
the two deepest teams left and that's important, and that's
I think on purpose, right, These coaches went deep into
their bench. They went deep into their bench all season long.
They and in some cases they were forced. You know,
Check and Hertenstein all missed injuries, you know, various times
things J. J. Williams this some time as well to
(10:48):
both J. Williams actually you know in O ca see
Nate Smith missed time, them hard miss time. So I
think they, the Pacers and the thunder understood the need
for a deep bench, but ultimately that allowed them to
be trustworthy to those guys eight, nine, ten, eleven, and twelve.
You know, Thomas Ryant three threes, and you know in
the close out game of Game six, you know, basically
getting out of the doul drums of the Miami bench
(11:09):
where he just wasn't getting any run and his big
threes and thats since I kind of sent the tide,
especially in that first half. Like listen, I respect the
roster construction, I respect the organizations that are in this
NBA Finals, and I think I'll pick it back off
of you what you said one more time. You know,
be damned what any of all dependents are saying. Be
damned what NBA fans are saying, like, Oh, this is
gonna be a boring finals. I'm not gonna watch, cool,
(11:30):
don't watch. I think you're gonna miss out on some
great basketball. But if that's your choice because you don't
have the air quote mar Key guys or names that
you're used to, this is exactly what the NBA wanted.
They wanted the aspect of trying to bring in new
blood and now having these small and mid market teams
in the NBA Finals is an amazing case. VB. Is
(11:55):
he overrated at this point? What more can you say?
He's made it to the NBA Finals with the team
that is extremely well constructed, but it's definitely built in
his image and his likeness and terms of his leadership
and getting getting the pace up and down.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Absolutely Golly Warren Show based on NBA podcast our NBA
Finals preview. I mean we were just right out the gate.
We were just all about talking about it, right, you know,
forget a plug.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
You people know who we are. You know what we've
been doing.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
We've been doing it all season long and for all
twelve plus years, right like, we've been doing this, right,
So you know where to find is, you know where
to catch is.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
One thing.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
And then you know, obviously we're gonna you know, drop
it to a quick break and then we'll get into
the into the gist of you know where where we
think the keys to the game is, you know, to
who might actually have an advantage, may have a disadvantage,
and then ultimately we'll you know, give our picks one
thing that I think I'm really really really looking forward to.
What is intrigued me about this series is the way
(12:55):
that both of these teams are manufacturing their points. Okay,
let right now, like a lot of the really high ended,
well respected analysts are looking at this as an offensive
versus defensive matchup right like, because the Indiana Pacers are
the kind of team that can run up one hundred
and thirty points. But I want people to really understand
(13:17):
the Oklahoma City Thunder as equally as well too. We're
are scoring north of one hundred and twenty something points,
and a lot of it comes down to what they're
forcing the other teams to not be able to do.
And what we saw in this last series with the
Indiana Pacers is they are finding ways for them to hit.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Those quote quote unquote.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Those quotas right of them hitting those one hundred and
twenty points, but they're doing it at the expense of
the opposition's mistakes, which is making them as equally a
formidable team as the Oklahoma City Thunder. I think what
it does now come down to is are the Pacers
able to consistently do that to win four of seven games?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Right?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Because I don't think there'll ever be a question about
what OKC is capable of doing. They have been doing this,
and they do it with consistency. Now, there'll be times
where you know, somebody cracks the Da Vinci code on
the OKC Thunder defense, and there are times where the
OKAC Thunder offensively get too kind of hung up on
their own. But I want to see can the Indiana
(14:25):
Pacers as equally reflect that same level of defensive intensity
on a team that equals them when you look at
the matchups and the way that they're situated and how
these these offenses are executed, because to me, that could
very much be a toss up, and then it really
comes down to basketball IQ execution and better shot selection
(14:50):
and decision making, which I will say I question the
Indiana Pacers a lot more than I probably do the
Oklahoma City Thunder. But I'm gonna leave that part for
you try to kind of kind of weigh in and
chime in on, because through there we'll segue into where
we see these X factors and the matchups and who
probably has the advantage over who when it comes to
(15:10):
the total roster, and then giving our picks.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, well, I mean I think, you know, it's a
great it's a great opportunity for us to understand the
machinations of all of these teams. So both these teams
twelve and four, you know, getting into and I think
the twelve and four are looked very different obviously in
terms of how we got here. Okay, see, as you
said before and as we've said, forged by fire with
the Denver Nuggets in that series, while the Pacers more
or less have been able to i'd say truly dominate
(15:37):
almost every one of their matchup six games, very close
six games, and the game will probably turn that series
around for them ultimately when the New York series or whatever.
But you know, they they haven't been they haven't faced
elimination yet, right, And I think you know that's that's
just a different situation than than Oka. See. But again,
we still get here with twelve and four records, both
teams who are offensively capable, defensively capable. In the end,
(16:00):
I really turned up to the defense on this next
team and it's forced a lot of turnovers. And that's
something that I think when when we come back to
the break, something that will be a great part of
the conversation to kind of figure out, you know, who's
more reliance on their defense to turn into offense or
who should be ultimately and who will be able to
just kind of be able to sustain their normal offense, right,
(16:21):
you know, can they run the half court offense and
execute in a way that will be efficient enough in
essence to get w's in this series? So cannot wait
dive into that conversation. But again, two teams twelve and four,
very different, different different looks, but same results here NBA Finalists.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Your tune to the baseline Cali warn't Shaw discussing the
hot button topics of the NBA are special edition of
the Baseline NBA Finals Preview Indiana Pass Oklahoma City Thunder
coming up, Sean, I will break down some of those
nuances where the advantages play for other team and then
ultimately we got to pick a winner, right, so you
don't want to miss it here on the Baseline. We're back,
(17:06):
Cali Warrenshaw based on NBA podcast NBA Finals Preview Oklahoma
City Thunder, Indiana Pacers, and just before we hit our Breakshaw,
you alluded to one of the things that I think
was really important is which team is gonna have to
heavily rely on their defense to.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Allow them more.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Opportunities for shots, allow them to force the other team
to really appreciate the amount of shot attempts that they
will have to be efficient in order to maintain and hang.
And I think it's a really great way to kind
of look into you know, have the Indiana Pacers caught up?
(17:53):
We can safely say throughout the course of the run
for the Oklahoma City Thunder, their defense really and I'm
sure that there will be, you know, metrics that will
speak to it on historical levels. I don't want to
go as far as to say they were among they
are the greatest defense that's ever played. I'm not really
buying that because I think when you look at who
you're playing against, the level of the competition that you're
(18:15):
playing against, I think that speaks volumes.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I will say that they are definitely one of.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
The most effective defensive teams that we have seen in
recent history, with the way that all of them have
had an intricate part in being able to affect those numbers.
The Oklahoma City Thunder, without question, to me, would be
the team that offers the most consistency to come out
and play defensive, intense basketball for forty eight minutes through
(18:46):
and through, and even though the results may not speak
to saying, Okay, you're holding a team to seventy points
eighty points, it's the quality of shot and the amount
of opportunities they're giving themselves in order for them to
beat the other team that I think resonates with me.
And it's something that I wonder this series that we
saw with the Indiana Pacers and the New York Knicks.
(19:07):
While the Indiana Pacers definitely improved as far as what
they showed excuse me, defensively, I wonder if whether or
not a lot of it as well too, just came
down to who they were playing against and the fact
that they weren't a tentative to details in not making
themselves turn the ball over. So I wonder, now with
this Oklahoma City Thunder team, do they nullify that aspect
(19:31):
with the Pacers.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah. So I'll throw a couple of numbers at you.
These are, you know, two obviously the two last teams
in the NBA, and the numbers are going to skew
towards them because of just kind of like where they're at.
But Oklahoma City really relies on defense and defense and
essence deternament the offense, as I was saying before the break,
so roughly twenty four points per game in the playoffs
(19:55):
are they're getting based off of turnovers? Like they're scoring
those points off of turnovers twenty four of those points.
Indiana conversely getting nineteen points off off of turnovers. So
what I'm interested to see here is that the fast
breaking style of Indiana, while their pace, hasn't necessarily reflected
everything that we think to be true about them, because
(20:16):
right now they're at a pace off only ninety nine
throughout the course of the playoffs. Okay, see he's actually
playing at a faster pace in the playoffs and roughly
like one hundred point one. But in theory, Indiana is
running up and down. Will that negate the opportunities for
okac in as sin As to swipe, to strip, you know,
to really stand guys up if you will, to double
(20:36):
and you know, come from the weak side and strip
a miles Turner if you think he's going to go
over that right shoulder or whatever the case may be.
That's something I think that the Indiana Pacers and Carli
Will will look at heavily. Do they really need to
turn it up right? But sometimes you can play too fast,
and playing too fast and also obviously lead to turnovers,
so they won't be live ball turnovers maybe in essence,
(20:57):
which Okaye obviously rely thries off of as well. But
are they throwing the bounds, throwing the ball out of
bound so to speak, and now all of a sudden
not getting as many possessions. That's something that I think
will be a really really de dremning factor into how
the playoffs or this finals will actually finish out. Conversly,
though Indiana has been able to pick things up, and
I think with them Hart and Nie Smith playing as
(21:19):
well as they are at the point of attack, are
they going to be able to force SGA to kind
of give up the ball right and then will guys
be available in the passing lanes. This is a different
series from Miles Turner, you know, I don't know if
if it's more of the heart and sign or if
he's going to be more on chet and then also
Okay See likes to play you know, kind of like
Chet out the five sometimes and then you know, allow
(21:40):
them to have more spacing, you know, with some of
those smaller guys because they just they're not worried about
giving up things defensively. That's where I'm just, I'm just
I'm so intrigued at the cross matching of what Indiana
is going to do defensively here to see if they
can still get a leg up in the defense that
I think has been much improved from where they were
in December and January. Like, this is a much different
team than they or you know, five months ago now,
(22:02):
and will that be able to turn okay, see over
and turn fast rate points in the favor of the
Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I want to be positive about the Indiana Pacers, So
I apologize to you Shaw and to anybody who's probably
gonna be listening to this and thinking I'm like hating
on the Pacers when I say this, Okay, I'm concerned
that the matchup with the Indiana Pacers and the New
(22:28):
York Knicks will give the Pacers this foolish idea that
they can go out and defensively execute the way that
they did with Jalen Brunson and the rest of those guys.
I don't think you can get away with that with
this version of what we see with the Oklahoma City Thunder. Now,
(22:50):
I will say this, if Nemhart can hang with SGA
and if whether or not Nie Smith is going to
have the responsibility of handling SGA more or maybe handling
Williams more, because I see that being more of a
(23:12):
matchup where athleticism plays into Nie Smith kind of bodying
up Williams a little bit more and forcing Williams to
probably be more aggressive, maybe take more shots. Only if
Nemhart can hang with SGA. And this is why it's
such an intriguing matchup Shaw. The way that SGA plays
(23:33):
his ball handling skills are so dynamically different than Jalen Brunson's.
Shade gillis Alexander. Everyone is he. He's the free throw
merchant and all that other stuff. I want people to
really understand and pay attention. He is the kind of
guy who is much more decisive about going to where
he wants to go in a north south fashion that
(23:56):
that will put Nemhart and whoever is going to be
on him on their heels. And if the Oklahoma City
Thunder is moving like they are, Hartenstein, home Grin all
those guys, that means that the Pacers have to be attentive.
I mean to the last person moving and cutting, because
(24:16):
when SGA gets inside, there is not a lot of
room for ERA. It's not a question of you know,
baiting and getting fouls. It's knowing that if SGA has
gotten past who you have as your primary defender, all
hands have to be on deck. It's even Halliburton, and
I'm not saying Halliburton is a compromise defensively, but all
of these guys can wind up getting cheap fouls because
(24:37):
SGA will deliberately get to a place that will, though
will make your defense vulnerable. And that's what I'm intrigued
by because there is a maturation process that gets elevated
now because you're not dealing with the same kind of
backcourt play that you just finished playing in the six
game series with the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Well, it's interesting because you know, I'm gonna not jumped
from your point, but I think when we talked about
it in the first half of the show, the overall
depth of this, right, So the depth is also going
to come in the cross matching and then how much
do the true starters play and do those cross matches
take effect? Right? Like who does heard signed really guard,
(25:18):
you know, with in the Inna on the Indian the side,
if it's Turner, awesome, right, but if a great sorry,
is Ischet a great match up for I don't I
don't know, right, So I think that might be more J. J.
Dubb who probably takes that assignment on on a more
regular basis. And then that's does not allow Check to
hang out on like uh like a Nie Smith per se,
like you know what I mean. So those are things,
(25:38):
but they remember they're gonna play a majority of those guys,
So who wish minutes are really gonna are we gonna
see in terms of the cross matching. So the top
end is in the game for Indiana, who's he guarded? Right?
You know? Unfortunately Jaris Walker looks like he's going to
be out for them for this final series, right, But
does does that force you to play Thomas Bryant who
wasn't looking so great in the first part of the
Knick series? And then is that something? Okay? See can
(26:00):
on the other side, so and the Thunder Conversely, they
feel like all their guys can guard everybody exactly, case
of Wallas is out there, you know, Caruso as stout
as he is As a defender, He's obviously very switchable.
That's where I think okay See seems to have the advantage,
especially when you go to the bench, because once you
get past that first that front five, so to speak. Now,
I think the defensive side for Indiana switches towards okay
(26:23):
Cee's favor because I just don't think they're as versatile defensively,
although they are very versatile offensive.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Watch if Dagona unleashes Caruso on Halliburton. I feel like
Talaris Halliburton's gameplay to me is so important.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
One of the things that was interesting, you know, with
Pascal Siakam winning the Eastern Conference Finals MVP. I thought
that that was I thought it was apropos. I thought
it was necessary. And if you're in the Indiana Pacers,
you're happy about that. You need an aggressive Pascal si
I know everybody's focused on, you know, the the rising
(27:03):
stardom of Tyrese Haliburton and his clutch playmaking. But you're
talking about playing a seven game series, hopefully against the
Oklahoma City thunder right. If you're going to have any
chance of winning, you need that version of Pascal Siakam
that came out in games was it two?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Games three?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Two?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I think two four and game six?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Right, you need that Pascal Siakam, That Pascal Siakam is aggressive,
that Pascal Siakam creates matchup nightmares for the front court.
That Pascal Siakam in transition is the kind of person
that the Oklahoma City Thunder were hoping they weren't seeing
from Julius Randall in that series that they just came
from who didn't show that.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
So if you are the Indiana Pacers, you know how
it is. Sometimes you got to nudge someone to be like,
I need to see the hulk in you, bro.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I want I want to see you kind of Bruce
Banner your way through this thing. And Pascal Siakam could
easily do that, but he just at times he disappears.
He cannot afford to disappear in this series. He to
me is the X factor that I think people really
need to pay attention to because he is the one
person on top end, bottom end that can really affect first, second,
(28:22):
and third levels of the Oklahoma City Thunder on both
sides of the basketball. It doesn't mean that he's got
to go out there and shot block or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
The case may be.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
But rebounding, creating disruption, creating length, creating a shot, being
a shot deterrent. That has to all come in play.
And I'm not saying it's only Onle. What I'm saying
is Siakam's energy and Siakam's being included in that. To me,
it's just so important if we think that the Pacers
(28:51):
have an opportunity to win this series.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, so I'll counter only with the notion of you know,
talk about Okay, see, we haven't really dove into the
SGA aspect of it yet, but even sticking on the
defense is like Dort, So Dort has that opportunity to really,
you know, try to Dfacam, I think at times alongside
Jail and Williams, and that's where I'm just I'm just
very concerned about what OKAC like their ability to consistently
(29:14):
switch and throw guys and not worry about it.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Not.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I feel like they're they're getting like they're they're that
they're that they're at a disadvantage just because this ex
defender is on them, whether they're smaller or not. Caruso
Dorr Williams, it doesn't really matter case I Wallace like,
they just will find guys and feel like, you know what,
we can live with this, And I think that's where
Indiana's going to be different. So while Siakam has to
play well, I think that's not to say a given,
(29:36):
but it's kind of one of the you know, sticking
points of the series. I think it does become like,
well where else can Indiana get consistent play? Because if
you feel like the main guys are gonna struggle, you know,
even even if it's just efficiency per se, maybe they'll
still get their numbers, but efficiently they may not. Then
that's when Miles Turner comes into play. That's when Aaron
Smith comes into play. And the last one is it
(29:58):
two three games of the series Benedict matthe and coming
off the bench. You know you talk about a freato
merchant you was getting through the line kind of that
nauseum and was really been able to be really impactful.
So is that something you know, Carl aland the Pacers
can tap into. Offense will be when their main guys
presumably are going to really be facing a very a
tough sledding for the entire of these series just because
of okay, switchability defensively, So I've been looking for Nie Smith,
(30:21):
Turner and Mathurin to really really figure out ways to
step in here, you know, and have some games. And
that's the beauty I think about the Indiana Pacers. It
doesn't mean they all have to go off at the
same time, but can one of them have a good
game and you know, while the other one is like,
all right, tonight's an off night. But the Smith pops
Likeing did in game one eight threes, which is obviously,
(30:41):
you know, miraculous, But does he you know, give you
seventeen to eighteen and another night Turners, you know, giving
you almost twenty eights. That's where I think Indiana is
really going to have to figure this out topping played
well in Game six, especially in the second half, and
I think that's where I think the Pacers have some
symbls of an understanding. But I don't know if all
their main guys are going to be able to go
off in this series because I think, okay, see just
so top heavy defensive way.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, so real quick, And then Sew, I want you
to kind of give me your take on who are
gonna be the rain makers? You know in this series,
like dudes that are just you know, they're looking, they'll
probably have an opportunity to really to go off. One
of the things that I spoke about, and I even
you know, I kind of mentioned this on on X
platforms and stuff like that, Like there were times where,
(31:23):
you know, watching the Pacers and the Knicks play was
to me was just kind of unwatchable. Not because I
didn't like either of the teams, because I technically don't.
But the reason why I was unwatchable is because shot
selection and basketball IQ at times was just I you know,
I just couldn't understand it. Like I guess it's like
neither one of these teams wanted to win. You cannot
do that against this Oklahoma City Thunder team. You just
(31:45):
you just cannot. You have to be at the highest
level of your understanding of the game and when a
shot is a good shot and when a shot is
not a good shot, because you're not going to be
afforded too many opportunities to have those make or miss situations.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
My concern he or again, what I've seen from the
Oklahoma City Thunder is that these guys are are executing
at a high level because they're reading and understanding the game.
They know and they understand the moments of you know,
when I should be get basically getting two points, or
why I can go ahead and shoot that transition three.
You know what I'm saying, Like they feel and understand
(32:19):
where the momentum shifts and changes, and they if they
roll the dice and take a risk on it, their
confident is saying, you know what, we own that that's
on us. But they like throughout the course of their
playoff run. What's impressed me about Okay se Shaws. I've
never looked at them with this level of saying, oh
my god, like are you serious? Like this is exactly
what you think you're gonna supposed to be doing, like
at this moment in time, is if like this is
(32:41):
meant to like you wanted this to happen, Like no,
Like you're gifting the opposition a chance to probably win
a game that they have no business.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Winning, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
And I felt that numerous times in the series against
the Indiana Pacers, where you work so hard you stole
two games from the New York Knicks, and yet your
level of execution down to stretch you even almost gifted
it back to them. And I'm just like, you cannot
do that against a team that really understands who they are,
who they had to go through to get to this point.
(33:10):
I'm just saying, like, if I want to buy into
the Indiana Pacers making this a series, they can't pull
the kind of stunts that they were pulling in this
last series in the Eastern Conference finals now.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And I get that, right. They they know that they're
going to be the underdogs and that they're going to
out to play and I say, perfect basketball, but a mistake.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Less basket payer, Yeah, don't use mistake free.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
It's just like, yeah, I mean it has to be
limited because I think, you know, you have to understand
the beachha going up against okay See is going to
turn you over, right, But just how many of those
are like, as I said in the beginning, how many
of those are live ball turnovers, you know versus like,
all right, you know, shot clock violations or whatever the
case it be, you know, are throwing the ball out
of bounds per see. You know, I don't want the
anti passers to become timid in the series at all.
(33:55):
I think they need to inherently need to be who
they are and try to run the basketball and not
go up against Oklahoma studies, you know, set defense on
a record basis, but again you have to do that
with a certain level of care and caution. And I
think that's what the depth of this team really does
kind of come into play that gives them more than
a punch of Shanson. I think some of the oddsmakers
are going to say in this situation, what I want
(34:15):
to kind of like switch gears to real quick though,
is just your thought on Indiana and their ability to
stop SGA, Like what are you looking for for SGA
in this series to be brilliant? And I could ultimately
to an OKAYC championship.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
If SGA believes that he can basically beat Indiana's backcourt
off the dribble, then ride that until they show you differently.
I mean literally ride that, because I think it just
opens up the floodgates. Let's remember, too, right, like again
that the Indiana Pacers have had more of a wolf
pack mentality defensively, which I think has afforded them the opportunity.
(34:52):
And you could also make the argument in some respects
that the New York Knicks kind of kind of gifted
that for them, like baited themselves because of their style
of offense. They had way too many half court oriented
guys weren't really good in spacing, and then when those
opportunities came for them to make those half court shots,
it was in the hands of people that just were inconsistent.
I don't think you'll have that kind of problem if
(35:12):
I'm OKAC, But it's all predicated on the aggressiveness of SGA.
And when I say aggressiveness, I'm saying he doesn't have
to take twenty shots in order for that to kind
of happen. It's all about if he's beating his man.
One of the things that I was impressed by that
I thought would have given the Minnesota Timber was a
chance in that series was the level of aggressiveness that
(35:35):
you saw from Alexander. From Walker Alexander and then also
from Anthony Edwards, there was a level of intensity of
really getting up in SGA and forcing him to dance
with the ball more rather than moving north south. If
SGA has made up his mind to go north south
and he gets past one the first defender, or maybe
even gets around the screen to the second defender, that's
(35:57):
putting guys like Siakam, guys like Turner on their heels.
And I'm not saying that they're great defensively, but it
will marginalize what they can give you defensively because they're
not great front court stretch out extensive defense defenders. Once
the guard gets past their back their their own their
teammates back court. So that's that's where I'm concerned. But
(36:18):
if I get an aggressive Sga, I mean he can
basically have lunch all all day long in the paint
with the with the Indiana Pacers because he can be
that kind of guy if he chooses to.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, and I think the foul down is going to
be something that we need to watch, especially on Dananda side.
You know, OKAC is known for their physical defense and
they seemly kind of get away, you know with some
things here and there. But conversely, can you make sha work?
Can you run him through multiple screens without them being legal? Right?
You know, I can see Siakam and Turner trying to
do something and then you know, sticking a leg out
(36:49):
too far and then get a call for those illegal screens.
But you gotta run you know, Sga around on the
defensive side to make him work and you know, maybe
that will hopefully tire him out on the offensive side
where he's maybe not as potent. I don't know that
that will actually happen, but I think it's something making
an attempt to do, you know, at different points throughout
the course of the series, because I'd much rather lose
(37:10):
this series if I'm Indiana, you know, with Jason Williams
and ched Holm Grant and guys like that, you know,
going off as opposed to Esga doing his MVP dance
on me kind of throughout the course of those other
game series. So they got to make ishe work on
the defensive side of the basketball as well, And I
think they have enough depth in guys and this will
they be able to do that. Not necessarily great one
on one guys, I don't think them hard and the
Smith are these guys you know, just try to take
(37:31):
you off the trouble per se. But again, you know,
putting him putting is sha in action with whoever he's guarding,
because I think he's going to be guarding probably the
lesser of the offensive. Uh, you know, stars if you
frow Ondianiana side, but you got to get him involved
one way.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right, seaw real quick, and then
we have to make our predictions. Who is your reigin
maker for both the Pacers and for the Oklahoma City
Thunder Aside from the star players, the SGAs and the
Tyrese Halliburtons, who do you feel like has an opportunity
need to be a rain maker in this series?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, I'm going to go back to the aspect of
it's two guys for Niana really for me, you know,
And I don't want to discredit what TJ McConnell's been
able to do in terms of when he comes in
and changes the pace for the Pacers, you know, as
a backup point guard. But Turner should have a much
better series here. Chet and Heartenstein are not They're not Kat.
And while you can say that might be good for
(38:24):
some reasons, Kat decided that, you know what, Turner, you
cannot guard me on the perimeter, like you have to
respect my jumper and away. But if I decided to
put on the floor, you have no hope. Chet and
Heartstein don't have those types of chops. These not off
the bounce. So I think Turner can have a more
impactful series in this, and then I think conversely on
the the other guy on the Indiana side too, I
think as aforementioned math room whish, I don't need to
(38:45):
kind of really gate that too. So I think those
two guys from Niana have to play well. The Pacers
are going to you know, make this a long series.
And then conversely for okay, see it is not necessarily
an offensive thing for me, I think they can they
can maintain this same level of defense with Caruso on
the floor in case I Wallace on the floor, Like
is the defense there's truly no drop off when you know,
(39:07):
the the Indiana offensive guys like the top ends and
the maxmins kind of come in. Can they still get
that same level of defensive production, not from their starters
per se. So that's where it's like, it's kind of
a tale of two teams really where I think Indiana
needs to figure out a way to tap in even
more into their offensive chops, which I think is going
to be a tough defense. Well, okay see he needs
to dig down into what they do best, but their defense,
(39:27):
especially with some of their supplemental and auxiliary guys.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, I like what I like where you were going
with that one.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I'll just throw in one because you you kind of
already mentioned from the Indiana side, I'm gonna go with
chet Holmgren for the Oklahoma City Thunder as a rain maker.
I really believe that he has an opportunity one to
extend Miles Turner if he had if Mos Turner has him,
or maybe even Pascal Siakam. I think chet Holmgrim is
moving quite you know, nicely. Throughout the course of this
(39:56):
NBA Playoffs. He's given you a few twenty something put
us point performances hitting the three and then also from
a defensive perspective, bro averaging two blocks per game essentially, Like,
I just feel like if he is on one and
he is really complementing what we're expecting to see from
SGA and j Williams, that's going to be a problem
(40:17):
for the Indian pacer. This is way too much firepower
coming from all aspects, you know, every dynamic of the
Oklahoma City Thunder.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
All right.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
So with that being said, Shaw, well you got how
many games?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, I'm struggling, you know, conventional wisdom and the oddsmaker says,
you know, this could be a good series, but maybe
not necessarily a long one right, and I think you'd
say maybe okay see in five or six because you
want to show respect to the pacers or whatever. I
don't know, man, I'm just at my I'm at my
tipping point. I'm tired. I'm tired of doubting Indiana. I'm
(40:54):
not so tired where I'm going to pick them to
win the series. But I think they're going to have
a better showing in this than many of the odspeakers
were giving them. So I'm gonna tip my toe in
the waters here and say, okay see in seven, in
a in a in an NBA finals and unexpected AMI
finals that we didn't expect to be a classic. But
I think Indiana is gonna show up prove in a
way that many are probably still dotting them a little
(41:15):
bit before. But I still got the Thunder winning the
NBA Championship. But I'm gonna put okayee in Southern Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Man, you're gonna have me. You're gonna be hay have
me on an island.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Man.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
You know what I'm saying. It was that dunk tank.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Everyone's gonna basically have me just swimming in the waters
just by myself, right, Just look, man, I've I've been
a fan of the Indiana Pacers as far as their resiliency,
what they've shown. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
pooh poo what they've done to get to this point.
I am gonna say, though, I don't know if they're
(41:46):
gonna be able to hang with this Oklahoma City Thunder team.
I just I'm just watching this team, bro, And you know,
forget all of the the oh, you know, just the
first championship that you know there since the KD Westbrook
and Hardened not forget all all of that. They understand
that this is their time. They understand that. I truly
feel that they truly understand that. And I think if
(42:08):
they don't get into you know, in their own heads,
they know that they are really the better team in
this in this series. Ultimately, what they cannot afford to
do is what the Knicks allowed the Pacers to do.
And I told you this, right, do not let the
Pacers take one on the road, right, don't let them
(42:28):
get one in MSG, because if you do that, it's
a wrap.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
And not only do they take one, they took it twice, right,
they took them twice.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Okay, Pacers are one of the best teams on the road.
That being said, Oklahoma City understands this moment. They are
not going to give the Indiana Pacers any level of
needed oxygen except for what they can generate on their own.
So they're gonna have to work for it. They're not gonna.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Sit there and you know, be subject to the choke
jobs or nothing like that. You're not gonna see that
with this OKAC thing. So me shaw, I'm gonna say,
OKAYC in six. But man, I really would not be
surprised if it's a gentleman's sweep. I really would not
be because, to me, defense wins championships, and the Oklahoma
City Thunder, to me, have proven throughout this playoffs their
(43:17):
defense is for real against the teams that they have
been playing against. And I just don't know. Kyle's gonna
have to pull out a masterpiece to get these guys
to break what the OKC Thunder has basically been thrown
out here so far in this NBA Playoffs.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I have nothing, I have no notes, So I was
where my heart really wants to go. But I just
feel like.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
It And the only reason why I'm saying that is
The key is the first two games in OKC.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
If the Indiana Pacers show that.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
They will hang around, they will throw it right back
at OKC, then this is gonna be a long series.
But if OKAC goes out and does what they basically
have done to teams in those first two games of
holding their home court or against teams who are base
matched up like them, say like the Minnesota Timberwolves, this
will be a quick series because it's just such a
(44:06):
it's a tough hill to climb, man, when a team
is locked in defensively, you don't have the luxury of
turn suddenly just figuring it out of how you're gonna
basically stop them from doing what they were able to
come out and execute that they've been doing all series long.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
And that's the reason why it's as hard not to
buy into that.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
What can ultimately happen, you know, in Indiana's favor is
if they can actually run partnsteign yes off the court.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
They've got to run them exactly, they got to run
them thin. They have to run run them to the
point where you're forcing OKC to have to figure out
offensively how to turn things up, which is out of
their element. I'm not saying that. Okack again, I'm not
saying they can't score. But what I'm saying is they
know they don't have to score one hundred and twenty
(44:48):
points for them to beat you. So if you're figuring
out a way to push them to think that you
got to score one hundred and twenty points, you may
actually have the edge. And we'll see if the Inana
Pacers can do that.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, well, we'll be great to see two great coaches,
you know that, and Carlisle, two great point guards, elite guards,
and Halliburn and and SGA and role players and supplemental
stars and and j Dubb and Chad and Holmgren and
like there's just there's a lot of great storylines, the.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Great This is one of the great team basketball matchups
of NBA finals that we have seen in the last
seven years. And and I'm glad that one of these
teams will deserveably hoist the trophy for the first time,
you know, you know, either for the OKC Thunder or
at all, like Nana Pacers having not won an NBA championship,
(45:37):
right yeah, so uh yeah, not not that I not
not the A B A since if they were a
BA right, Okay, yeah, so again and the Thunder don't
claim the Sonics Championship, so we'll be the first Thunder
championship for sure.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Yeah, watch this series, fans like, just watch it and
and top in. I think it could be better, better
than expected, but you know, maybe ultimately the outcome is
pretty determined, so to speak. But I think the Spacer's
team is going to surprise some folk. Share in the
semifinals a little bit too. Shout out to Halliburton, man,
and shout out to Holly's did a little bit too.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah. Absolutely, welcome back, man, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Awesome show man, awesome preview, and listen man, we definitely
want to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
We appreciate everybody who's been riding with us through this
incredible wave of NBA performances and games and playoffs, and
now that we're here with the NBA Finals and know
we're just that much closer, but hopefully you'll continue to
enjoy our ride with us for the baseline. Cali Warren Shall,
We appreciate you guys. You know, we do enjoy the
NBA Finals and we'll catch up with you next time.
What's good. Everybody is your boy cal game face Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And it's me Warrenshaw and we are officially live on millions, y'all.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
That's right, The Baseline NBA podcast is officially live. Just
go to millions dot co and go to our profile
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
And if you're looking to book with us, collaborate us,
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Speaker 1 (00:30):
Absolutely so be sure to go to millions dot co.
You already know.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Keep it real here the Baseline NBA Podcast. Your boy
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Speaker 1 (00:42):
Don't miss out.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
This is the Baseline discussing the hot button topics.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Of the NBA.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Welcome everybody here, Tune to the Baseline Cali Warrenshaw discussing
the hot button topics of the NBA And we are
finally here.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
The table is set. NBA Finals is.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Now upon us and it will be Indiana Pacers taking
on the Oklahoma City Thunder. And I am sure the
NBA pundits those who are about the big ratings when
it comes to watching NBA Playoff Basketball, NBA Finals, basketball
(01:25):
sports entertainment are just shrugging their shoulders and are just
kind of like, WTF. But you know what, Sean, I
we here for it. And I'm pretty sure that if
you were watching the whole NBA Playoffs run for both
of these seams, respectively, you would be here for it
as well too. And it's only apropos if we come
(01:46):
to this point of the of the NBA season, it's
culminated that it arguably would be the two best playing
teams that are going into the NBA Finals, and not
simply because of the names.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
So let me go and rot the red carpet. I'm
my right hand man.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Www, dots that that net big OUNIPNC, My man ister
wone shar ripping out of Fort Laidale, Florida.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
What's good? My brother?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
That smirk on your face is telling me that you
about about it. So I'm supposing that we're gonna feel
good about our discussion in previewing the NBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I just love basketball, and I love the surprises that
this NBA season has has given us and bestowed upon us.
For what I'm calling the unexpected NBA Finals and and
that's not to be dismissive in any way. I just think,
you know, the betting odds makers did not have Indiana
and Okay see as your NBA finalists. Like just there's
just it just didn't happen. So the internet pacers have
(02:41):
gone on to you know, really prove me wrong, you know,
in a variety of ways over the course of the season.
And it's fun. Like I'm excited about, you know, the
opportunities here. So uh, I just listen, I'm just excited
to talk basketball, the NBA Finals or upon us. It's
been a long, long and very interesting and peculiar season,
and I think there's this apropos, if you will, that
(03:02):
we're getting something that we didn't expect as the NBA
Finals here in the jew.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Look, you're my boy, right, We've been doing this for
quite some time. And I don't want to be labor
our conversation because I do want the attention to be
on the things that we are looking forward to with
regards to this matchup, which I really think is about
as intriguing a matchup as you will probably get over
the last five years. As far as the dynamics of
what these two teams bring to the table. But I
(03:30):
know that you've been saying, hey, you know, they proved
me wrong. Look, you just weren't a believer in the
Indiana Pacers and the makeup of this team in comparison
to what we essentially have said were among the better teams.
But what I am appreciating about what the NBA has
done through the course of this year and what we're
(03:50):
actually seeing with the implementation and the way that things
have changed and evolved.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
They want there too.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
They want parody, right, And while a lot of people
are pulling the idea of it, this is why you
want the parody, and you want the parody kind of
as a precursor. You want it, you know, reflective in
what we're seeing as you're going through that process of
watching an NBA season. I don't think you would have
just instantly said the Indiana Pacers given what they showed
(04:17):
us at the beginning of the season to what they
look like at the end of the season with minimal changes.
It was more of like it was a wake up call.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So I'm not gonna sit there and let you just
basically be like yo, Shaw, you know, yeah, that's right,
you were completely off on it, or whatever the case
may be. They had a lot of proving to do right,
because I think a lot of people had a right
to feel like this was kind of an overrated team
or maybe they overachieved because they just did not come
out looking like the team that surprised this last year.
(04:46):
And it's not like we haven't seen that before. Now,
with all that being said, we were kind of questioning
whether or not, okaysee, was that team right because they
underachieved last year. Right, people didn't buy into them being
that number one seed. They come out to Gate, they're
among the best teams going, and they hit a stump
in a road a couple of times when they dealt
with the Cleveland Cavaliers. People believed that the Cleveland Cavaliers
(05:07):
were the best team.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
When we saw that matchup earlier this year and we
start the Cleveland Cavaliers, it's basically take them to the
tool shed at the land and then OKAC showed us
their resiliency. They showed us that they learned from their mistakes,
they learned from the losses that they took. They came
back and they just basically put a spanking on Cleveland,
and then we said to ourselves, oh wow, Now the
(05:28):
question is, are the Boss and Celtics, you know, in
a position where they can actually repeat because it just
looks like, if Okac is that kind of team, are
the Celtics really about being that type of team to
defend their championship?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
So there were so.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Many storylines going on, Shaw and this is what I
love that we have gotten it to this point where
we can truly say, you know what, when it was
all said and done, when we wipe all of this
down and you take off all the injuries and all
the excuses. The Pacers were one of the hottest teams
in the second half of the season, and they carried
it into the playoffs and they won the games that
(06:02):
mattered the most to get them to this point, the
Oklahoma City Thunder. For them to be as viable as
a finals participant, they had to go through a roadblock,
and that roadblock was one of the former champions into
Denver Nuggets. I think that series proved to us that
if they go out and do what they were put
(06:22):
together to do, they would be one of the best
teams in the NBA and would be one of the
participants in the NBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, he said a lot. And I'll actually want to
throw it back to the aspect of these two teams
doing what they needed to do Keith Smith front of
the show, and a lot of I think of the
smarter NBA podcasts and ones that are not just kind
of like clickbaitio case to b. They've latched onto this
tweet by Keith Smith where he indicated that this is
(06:49):
going to be the first NBA Finals in the luxury
tax era, that both teams were not luxury tax players.
So this is smart team building, rafting, coaching, player development,
all of the things, and none of these teams and
it's not they won't be this way forever, but as
of this NBA Finals, none of these teams, neither of
(07:11):
these two teams are luxury tax players. That is amazing,
and that is amazing, and I think you know, okay,
see and Indiana, they they made really smart trades obviously, Okay,
see getting SGA in Paul George trade. There's the Paul
George angle down a lot of NBA twitter is hanging
on to as well too. These are two or two
former Paul George teams as well. But then the Halliburton
(07:31):
for Sabona trade you know, from Indiana, then they get
Siakam the next year later, or what are the case
they be? Like really well constructed teams who deserve to
be here. And I'm not taking anything away from them
anymore at all in any aspector or or any way
for them because I love I love basketball. I love
that these two teams represent basketball. And while it's not
(07:52):
the air quot sexiest finals in terms of market size
or what are the cases be, these are the two
best teams standing. And that's what you will.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Listen for all these people out there that love, you know,
to inject you know, quote unquote the the trash talking
aspect of what we what we do and what I'm
what I'm talking about is you look at these teams
and they don't exhibit quote unquote the star power that
I think people are trying, you know, to elevate when
(08:22):
we attach ourselves to the NBA and the marketability of
the NBA.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
But look at these two teams.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Shaw, these are thoroughbreds, right The Oklahoma City Thunder have
proven that they can run with any team if they
want to. Notice I said, if they want to. But
they don't have to. They believe that they're good enough
that if you want to go half court, we can
half court you. You want to go all out track meet,
(08:50):
we can run with you. And we'll run with you
fifteen deep if we have to write. They're players that
showed up in this Western Conference Finals that you probably
have not heard their names up until they got into
the playoffs and their dagonault and you know, you can
clearly tell that he's elevated himself as a coach and
(09:12):
when he is implementing and deploying the roster and what
he needs his guys to go out and do, and
they're going out and doing it. The caseon Wallace's the
Kendrick Williams. These dudes, you don't hear them all throughout
the but he's played them. He's played them if you
were paying attention to them, and they found minutes. He
found minutes for them critical situations where it was needed,
(09:35):
not about just giving guys a blow, not out of
necessity or desperation, but out of the strategic aspect of
what the OKC thunder needed to do for them to
win a game or win a series. And that to me,
it speaks bothers. And I give the same credit to
Rick Carlisle when he felt like a matchup was not
in his favor, even if he had marginally playable guys,
(09:57):
he still put them out there with confidence that they
are doing something that is going to benefit them when
it came down to closing out that series against the
New York Knicks, And that, to me is the kind
of things you want to see coming into an NBA Finals.
Were all of these components that you're measuring up and
trying to say who has the advantage of this that?
And the third if it's not being shown or implemented
(10:18):
any course through their run, it will always be a
question mark and will always probably be against them if
it's not being displayed at some point.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, I think that's another great point. These are also
the two deepest teams left and that's important, and that's
I think on purpose, right, These coaches went deep into
their bench. They went deep into their bench all season long.
They and in some cases they were forced. You know,
Check and Hertenstein all missed injuries, you know, various times
things J. J. Williams this some time as well to
(10:48):
both J. Williams actually you know in O ca see
Nate Smith missed time, them hard miss time. So I
think they, the Pacers and the thunder understood the need
for a deep bench, but ultimately that allowed them to
be trustworthy to those guys eight, nine, ten, eleven, and twelve.
You know, Thomas Ryant three threes, and you know in
the close out game of Game six, you know, basically
getting out of the doul drums of the Miami bench
(11:09):
where he just wasn't getting any run and his big
threes and thats since I kind of sent the tide,
especially in that first half. Like listen, I respect the
roster construction, I respect the organizations that are in this
NBA Finals, and I think I'll pick it back off
of you what you said one more time. You know,
be damned what any of all dependents are saying. Be
damned what NBA fans are saying, like, Oh, this is
gonna be a boring finals. I'm not gonna watch, cool,
(11:30):
don't watch. I think you're gonna miss out on some
great basketball. But if that's your choice because you don't
have the air quote mar Key guys or names that
you're used to, this is exactly what the NBA wanted.
They wanted the aspect of trying to bring in new
blood and now having these small and mid market teams
in the NBA Finals is an amazing case. VB. Is
(11:55):
he overrated at this point? What more can you say?
He's made it to the NBA Finals with the team
that is extremely well constructed, but it's definitely built in
his image and his likeness and terms of his leadership
and getting getting the pace up and down.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Absolutely Golly Warren Show based on NBA podcast our NBA
Finals preview. I mean we were just right out the gate.
We were just all about talking about it, right, you know,
forget a plug.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
You people know who we are. You know what we've
been doing.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
We've been doing it all season long and for all
twelve plus years, right like, we've been doing this, right,
So you know where to find is, you know where
to catch is.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
One thing.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
And then you know, obviously we're gonna you know, drop
it to a quick break and then we'll get into
the into the gist of you know where where we
think the keys to the game is, you know, to
who might actually have an advantage, may have a disadvantage,
and then ultimately we'll you know, give our picks one
thing that I think I'm really really really looking forward to.
What is intrigued me about this series is the way
(12:55):
that both of these teams are manufacturing their points. Okay,
let right now, like a lot of the really high ended,
well respected analysts are looking at this as an offensive
versus defensive matchup right like, because the Indiana Pacers are
the kind of team that can run up one hundred
and thirty points. But I want people to really understand
(13:17):
the Oklahoma City Thunder as equally as well too. We're
are scoring north of one hundred and twenty something points,
and a lot of it comes down to what they're
forcing the other teams to not be able to do.
And what we saw in this last series with the
Indiana Pacers is they are finding ways for them to hit.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Those quote quote unquote.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Those quotas right of them hitting those one hundred and
twenty points, but they're doing it at the expense of
the opposition's mistakes, which is making them as equally a
formidable team as the Oklahoma City Thunder. I think what
it does now come down to is are the Pacers
able to consistently do that to win four of seven games?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Right?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Because I don't think there'll ever be a question about
what OKC is capable of doing. They have been doing this,
and they do it with consistency. Now, there'll be times
where you know, somebody cracks the Da Vinci code on
the OKC Thunder defense, and there are times where the
OKAC Thunder offensively get too kind of hung up on
their own. But I want to see can the Indiana
(14:25):
Pacers as equally reflect that same level of defensive intensity
on a team that equals them when you look at
the matchups and the way that they're situated and how
these these offenses are executed, because to me, that could
very much be a toss up, and then it really
comes down to basketball IQ execution and better shot selection
(14:50):
and decision making, which I will say I question the
Indiana Pacers a lot more than I probably do the
Oklahoma City Thunder. But I'm gonna leave that part for
you try to kind of kind of weigh in and
chime in on, because through there we'll segue into where
we see these X factors and the matchups and who
probably has the advantage over who when it comes to
(15:10):
the total roster, and then giving our picks.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, well, I mean I think, you know, it's a
great it's a great opportunity for us to understand the
machinations of all of these teams. So both these teams
twelve and four, you know, getting into and I think
the twelve and four are looked very different obviously in
terms of how we got here. Okay, see, as you
said before and as we've said, forged by fire with
the Denver Nuggets in that series, while the Pacers more
or less have been able to i'd say truly dominate
(15:37):
almost every one of their matchup six games, very close
six games, and the game will probably turn that series
around for them ultimately when the New York series or whatever.
But you know, they they haven't been they haven't faced
elimination yet, right, And I think you know that's that's
just a different situation than than Oka. See. But again,
we still get here with twelve and four records, both
teams who are offensively capable, defensively capable. In the end,
(16:00):
I really turned up to the defense on this next
team and it's forced a lot of turnovers. And that's
something that I think when when we come back to
the break, something that will be a great part of
the conversation to kind of figure out, you know, who's
more reliance on their defense to turn into offense or
who should be ultimately and who will be able to
just kind of be able to sustain their normal offense, right,
(16:21):
you know, can they run the half court offense and
execute in a way that will be efficient enough in
essence to get w's in this series? So cannot wait
dive into that conversation. But again, two teams twelve and four,
very different, different different looks, but same results here NBA Finalists.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Your tune to the baseline Cali warn't Shaw discussing the
hot button topics of the NBA are special edition of
the Baseline NBA Finals Preview Indiana Pass Oklahoma City Thunder
coming up, Sean, I will break down some of those
nuances where the advantages play for other team and then
ultimately we got to pick a winner, right, so you
don't want to miss it here on the Baseline. We're back,
(17:06):
Cali Warrenshaw based on NBA podcast NBA Finals Preview Oklahoma
City Thunder, Indiana Pacers, and just before we hit our Breakshaw,
you alluded to one of the things that I think
was really important is which team is gonna have to
heavily rely on their defense to.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Allow them more.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Opportunities for shots, allow them to force the other team
to really appreciate the amount of shot attempts that they
will have to be efficient in order to maintain and hang.
And I think it's a really great way to kind
of look into you know, have the Indiana Pacers caught up?
(17:53):
We can safely say throughout the course of the run
for the Oklahoma City Thunder, their defense really and I'm
sure that there will be, you know, metrics that will
speak to it on historical levels. I don't want to
go as far as to say they were among they
are the greatest defense that's ever played. I'm not really
buying that because I think when you look at who
you're playing against, the level of the competition that you're
(18:15):
playing against, I think that speaks volumes.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I will say that they are definitely one of.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
The most effective defensive teams that we have seen in
recent history, with the way that all of them have
had an intricate part in being able to affect those numbers.
The Oklahoma City Thunder, without question, to me, would be
the team that offers the most consistency to come out
and play defensive, intense basketball for forty eight minutes through
(18:46):
and through, and even though the results may not speak
to saying, Okay, you're holding a team to seventy points
eighty points, it's the quality of shot and the amount
of opportunities they're giving themselves in order for them to
beat the other team that I think resonates with me.
And it's something that I wonder this series that we
saw with the Indiana Pacers and the New York Knicks.
(19:07):
While the Indiana Pacers definitely improved as far as what
they showed excuse me, defensively, I wonder if whether or
not a lot of it as well too, just came
down to who they were playing against and the fact
that they weren't a tentative to details in not making
themselves turn the ball over. So I wonder, now with
this Oklahoma City Thunder team, do they nullify that aspect
(19:31):
with the Pacers.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah. So I'll throw a couple of numbers at you.
These are, you know, two obviously the two last teams
in the NBA, and the numbers are going to skew
towards them because of just kind of like where they're at.
But Oklahoma City really relies on defense and defense and
essence deternament the offense, as I was saying before the break,
so roughly twenty four points per game in the playoffs
(19:55):
are they're getting based off of turnovers? Like they're scoring
those points off of turnovers twenty four of those points.
Indiana conversely getting nineteen points off off of turnovers. So
what I'm interested to see here is that the fast
breaking style of Indiana, while their pace, hasn't necessarily reflected
everything that we think to be true about them, because
(20:16):
right now they're at a pace off only ninety nine
throughout the course of the playoffs. Okay, see he's actually
playing at a faster pace in the playoffs and roughly
like one hundred point one. But in theory, Indiana is
running up and down. Will that negate the opportunities for
okac in as sin As to swipe, to strip, you know,
to really stand guys up if you will, to double
(20:36):
and you know, come from the weak side and strip
a miles Turner if you think he's going to go
over that right shoulder or whatever the case may be.
That's something I think that the Indiana Pacers and Carli
Will will look at heavily. Do they really need to
turn it up right? But sometimes you can play too fast,
and playing too fast and also obviously lead to turnovers,
so they won't be live ball turnovers maybe in essence,
(20:57):
which Okaye obviously rely thries off of as well. But
are they throwing the bounds, throwing the ball out of
bound so to speak, and now all of a sudden
not getting as many possessions. That's something that I think
will be a really really de dremning factor into how
the playoffs or this finals will actually finish out. Conversly,
though Indiana has been able to pick things up, and
I think with them Hart and Nie Smith playing as
(21:19):
well as they are at the point of attack, are
they going to be able to force SGA to kind
of give up the ball right and then will guys
be available in the passing lanes. This is a different
series from Miles Turner, you know, I don't know if
if it's more of the heart and sign or if
he's going to be more on chet and then also
Okay See likes to play you know, kind of like
Chet out the five sometimes and then you know, allow
(21:40):
them to have more spacing, you know, with some of
those smaller guys because they just they're not worried about
giving up things defensively. That's where I'm just, I'm just
I'm so intrigued at the cross matching of what Indiana
is going to do defensively here to see if they
can still get a leg up in the defense that
I think has been much improved from where they were
in December and January. Like, this is a much different
team than they or you know, five months ago now,
(22:02):
and will that be able to turn okay, see over
and turn fast rate points in the favor of the
Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I want to be positive about the Indiana Pacers, So
I apologize to you Shaw and to anybody who's probably
gonna be listening to this and thinking I'm like hating
on the Pacers when I say this, Okay, I'm concerned
that the matchup with the Indiana Pacers and the New
(22:28):
York Knicks will give the Pacers this foolish idea that
they can go out and defensively execute the way that
they did with Jalen Brunson and the rest of those guys.
I don't think you can get away with that with
this version of what we see with the Oklahoma City Thunder. Now,
(22:50):
I will say this, if Nemhart can hang with SGA
and if whether or not Nie Smith is going to
have the responsibility of handling SGA more or maybe handling
Williams more, because I see that being more of a
(23:12):
matchup where athleticism plays into Nie Smith kind of bodying
up Williams a little bit more and forcing Williams to
probably be more aggressive, maybe take more shots. Only if
Nemhart can hang with SGA. And this is why it's
such an intriguing matchup Shaw. The way that SGA plays
(23:33):
his ball handling skills are so dynamically different than Jalen Brunson's.
Shade gillis Alexander. Everyone is he. He's the free throw
merchant and all that other stuff. I want people to
really understand and pay attention. He is the kind of
guy who is much more decisive about going to where
he wants to go in a north south fashion that
(23:56):
that will put Nemhart and whoever is going to be
on him on their heels. And if the Oklahoma City
Thunder is moving like they are, Hartenstein, home Grin all
those guys, that means that the Pacers have to be attentive.
I mean to the last person moving and cutting, because
(24:16):
when SGA gets inside, there is not a lot of
room for ERA. It's not a question of you know,
baiting and getting fouls. It's knowing that if SGA has
gotten past who you have as your primary defender, all
hands have to be on deck. It's even Halliburton, and
I'm not saying Halliburton is a compromise defensively, but all
of these guys can wind up getting cheap fouls because
(24:37):
SGA will deliberately get to a place that will, though
will make your defense vulnerable. And that's what I'm intrigued
by because there is a maturation process that gets elevated
now because you're not dealing with the same kind of
backcourt play that you just finished playing in the six
game series with the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Well, it's interesting because you know, I'm gonna not jumped
from your point, but I think when we talked about
it in the first half of the show, the overall
depth of this, right, So the depth is also going
to come in the cross matching and then how much
do the true starters play and do those cross matches
take effect? Right? Like who does heard signed really guard,
(25:18):
you know, with in the Inna on the Indian the side,
if it's Turner, awesome, right, but if a great sorry,
is Ischet a great match up for I don't I
don't know, right, So I think that might be more J. J.
Dubb who probably takes that assignment on on a more
regular basis. And then that's does not allow Check to
hang out on like uh like a Nie Smith per se,
like you know what I mean. So those are things,
(25:38):
but they remember they're gonna play a majority of those guys,
So who wish minutes are really gonna are we gonna
see in terms of the cross matching. So the top
end is in the game for Indiana, who's he guarded? Right?
You know? Unfortunately Jaris Walker looks like he's going to
be out for them for this final series, right, But
does does that force you to play Thomas Bryant who
wasn't looking so great in the first part of the
Knick series? And then is that something? Okay? See can
(26:00):
on the other side, so and the Thunder Conversely, they
feel like all their guys can guard everybody exactly, case
of Wallas is out there, you know, Caruso as stout
as he is As a defender, He's obviously very switchable.
That's where I think okay See seems to have the advantage,
especially when you go to the bench, because once you
get past that first that front five, so to speak. Now,
I think the defensive side for Indiana switches towards okay
(26:23):
Cee's favor because I just don't think they're as versatile defensively,
although they are very versatile offensive.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Watch if Dagona unleashes Caruso on Halliburton. I feel like
Talaris Halliburton's gameplay to me is so important.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
One of the things that was interesting, you know, with
Pascal Siakam winning the Eastern Conference Finals MVP. I thought
that that was I thought it was apropos. I thought
it was necessary. And if you're in the Indiana Pacers,
you're happy about that. You need an aggressive Pascal si
I know everybody's focused on, you know, the the rising
(27:03):
stardom of Tyrese Haliburton and his clutch playmaking. But you're
talking about playing a seven game series, hopefully against the
Oklahoma City thunder right. If you're going to have any
chance of winning, you need that version of Pascal Siakam
that came out in games was it two?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Games three?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Two?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I think two four and game six?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Right, you need that Pascal Siakam, That Pascal Siakam is aggressive,
that Pascal Siakam creates matchup nightmares for the front court.
That Pascal Siakam in transition is the kind of person
that the Oklahoma City Thunder were hoping they weren't seeing
from Julius Randall in that series that they just came
from who didn't show that.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
So if you are the Indiana Pacers, you know how
it is. Sometimes you got to nudge someone to be like,
I need to see the hulk in you, bro.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I want I want to see you kind of Bruce
Banner your way through this thing. And Pascal Siakam could
easily do that, but he just at times he disappears.
He cannot afford to disappear in this series. He to
me is the X factor that I think people really
need to pay attention to because he is the one
person on top end, bottom end that can really affect first, second,
(28:22):
and third levels of the Oklahoma City Thunder on both
sides of the basketball. It doesn't mean that he's got
to go out there and shot block or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
The case may be.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
But rebounding, creating disruption, creating length, creating a shot, being
a shot deterrent. That has to all come in play.
And I'm not saying it's only Onle. What I'm saying
is Siakam's energy and Siakam's being included in that. To me,
it's just so important if we think that the Pacers
(28:51):
have an opportunity to win this series.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, so I'll counter only with the notion of you know,
talk about Okay, see, we haven't really dove into the
SGA aspect of it yet, but even sticking on the
defense is like Dort, So Dort has that opportunity to really,
you know, try to Dfacam, I think at times alongside
Jail and Williams, and that's where I'm just I'm just
very concerned about what OKAC like their ability to consistently
(29:14):
switch and throw guys and not worry about it.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Not.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I feel like they're they're getting like they're they're that
they're that they're at a disadvantage just because this ex
defender is on them, whether they're smaller or not. Caruso
Dorr Williams, it doesn't really matter case I Wallace like,
they just will find guys and feel like, you know what,
we can live with this, And I think that's where
Indiana's going to be different. So while Siakam has to
play well, I think that's not to say a given,
(29:36):
but it's kind of one of the you know, sticking
points of the series. I think it does become like,
well where else can Indiana get consistent play? Because if
you feel like the main guys are gonna struggle, you know,
even even if it's just efficiency per se, maybe they'll
still get their numbers, but efficiently they may not. Then
that's when Miles Turner comes into play. That's when Aaron
Smith comes into play. And the last one is it
(29:58):
two three games of the series Benedict matthe and coming
off the bench. You know you talk about a freato
merchant you was getting through the line kind of that
nauseum and was really been able to be really impactful.
So is that something you know, Carl aland the Pacers
can tap into. Offense will be when their main guys
presumably are going to really be facing a very a
tough sledding for the entire of these series just because
of okay, switchability defensively, So I've been looking for Nie Smith,
(30:21):
Turner and Mathurin to really really figure out ways to
step in here, you know, and have some games. And
that's the beauty I think about the Indiana Pacers. It
doesn't mean they all have to go off at the
same time, but can one of them have a good
game and you know, while the other one is like,
all right, tonight's an off night. But the Smith pops
Likeing did in game one eight threes, which is obviously,
(30:41):
you know, miraculous, But does he you know, give you
seventeen to eighteen and another night Turners, you know, giving
you almost twenty eights. That's where I think Indiana is
really going to have to figure this out topping played
well in Game six, especially in the second half, and
I think that's where I think the Pacers have some
symbls of an understanding. But I don't know if all
their main guys are going to be able to go
off in this series because I think, okay, see just
so top heavy defensive way.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, so real quick, And then Sew, I want you
to kind of give me your take on who are
gonna be the rain makers? You know in this series,
like dudes that are just you know, they're looking, they'll
probably have an opportunity to really to go off. One
of the things that I spoke about, and I even
you know, I kind of mentioned this on on X
platforms and stuff like that, Like there were times where,
(31:23):
you know, watching the Pacers and the Knicks play was
to me was just kind of unwatchable. Not because I
didn't like either of the teams, because I technically don't.
But the reason why I was unwatchable is because shot
selection and basketball IQ at times was just I you know,
I just couldn't understand it. Like I guess it's like
neither one of these teams wanted to win. You cannot
do that against this Oklahoma City Thunder team. You just
(31:45):
you just cannot. You have to be at the highest
level of your understanding of the game and when a
shot is a good shot and when a shot is
not a good shot, because you're not going to be
afforded too many opportunities to have those make or miss situations.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
My concern he or again, what I've seen from the
Oklahoma City Thunder is that these guys are are executing
at a high level because they're reading and understanding the game.
They know and they understand the moments of you know,
when I should be get basically getting two points, or
why I can go ahead and shoot that transition three.
You know what I'm saying, Like they feel and understand
(32:19):
where the momentum shifts and changes, and they if they
roll the dice and take a risk on it, their
confident is saying, you know what, we own that that's
on us. But they like throughout the course of their
playoff run. What's impressed me about Okay se Shaws. I've
never looked at them with this level of saying, oh
my god, like are you serious? Like this is exactly
what you think you're gonna supposed to be doing, like
at this moment in time, is if like this is
(32:41):
meant to like you wanted this to happen, Like no,
Like you're gifting the opposition a chance to probably win
a game that they have no business.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Winning, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
And I felt that numerous times in the series against
the Indiana Pacers, where you work so hard you stole
two games from the New York Knicks, and yet your
level of execution down to stretch you even almost gifted
it back to them. And I'm just like, you cannot
do that against a team that really understands who they are,
who they had to go through to get to this point.
(33:10):
I'm just saying, like, if I want to buy into
the Indiana Pacers making this a series, they can't pull
the kind of stunts that they were pulling in this
last series in the Eastern Conference finals now.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And I get that, right. They they know that they're
going to be the underdogs and that they're going to
out to play and I say, perfect basketball, but a mistake.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Less basket payer, Yeah, don't use mistake free.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
It's just like, yeah, I mean it has to be
limited because I think, you know, you have to understand
the beachha going up against okay See is going to
turn you over, right, But just how many of those
are like, as I said in the beginning, how many
of those are live ball turnovers, you know versus like,
all right, you know, shot clock violations or whatever the
case it be, you know, are throwing the ball out
of bounds per see. You know, I don't want the
anti passers to become timid in the series at all.
(33:55):
I think they need to inherently need to be who
they are and try to run the basketball and not
go up against Oklahoma studies, you know, set defense on
a record basis, but again you have to do that
with a certain level of care and caution. And I
think that's what the depth of this team really does
kind of come into play that gives them more than
a punch of Shanson. I think some of the oddsmakers
are going to say in this situation, what I want
(34:15):
to kind of like switch gears to real quick though,
is just your thought on Indiana and their ability to
stop SGA, Like what are you looking for for SGA
in this series to be brilliant? And I could ultimately
to an OKAYC championship.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
If SGA believes that he can basically beat Indiana's backcourt
off the dribble, then ride that until they show you differently.
I mean literally ride that, because I think it just
opens up the floodgates. Let's remember, too, right, like again
that the Indiana Pacers have had more of a wolf
pack mentality defensively, which I think has afforded them the opportunity.
(34:52):
And you could also make the argument in some respects
that the New York Knicks kind of kind of gifted
that for them, like baited themselves because of their style
of offense. They had way too many half court oriented
guys weren't really good in spacing, and then when those
opportunities came for them to make those half court shots,
it was in the hands of people that just were inconsistent.
I don't think you'll have that kind of problem if
(35:12):
I'm OKAC, But it's all predicated on the aggressiveness of SGA.
And when I say aggressiveness, I'm saying he doesn't have
to take twenty shots in order for that to kind
of happen. It's all about if he's beating his man.
One of the things that I was impressed by that
I thought would have given the Minnesota Timber was a
chance in that series was the level of aggressiveness that
(35:35):
you saw from Alexander. From Walker Alexander and then also
from Anthony Edwards, there was a level of intensity of
really getting up in SGA and forcing him to dance
with the ball more rather than moving north south. If
SGA has made up his mind to go north south
and he gets past one the first defender, or maybe
even gets around the screen to the second defender, that's
(35:57):
putting guys like Siakam, guys like Turner on their heels.
And I'm not saying that they're great defensively, but it
will marginalize what they can give you defensively because they're
not great front court stretch out extensive defense defenders. Once
the guard gets past their back their their own their
teammates back court. So that's that's where I'm concerned. But
(36:18):
if I get an aggressive Sga, I mean he can
basically have lunch all all day long in the paint
with the with the Indiana Pacers because he can be
that kind of guy if he chooses to.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, and I think the foul down is going to
be something that we need to watch, especially on Dananda side.
You know, OKAC is known for their physical defense and
they seemly kind of get away, you know with some
things here and there. But conversely, can you make sha work?
Can you run him through multiple screens without them being legal? Right?
You know, I can see Siakam and Turner trying to
do something and then you know, sticking a leg out
(36:49):
too far and then get a call for those illegal screens.
But you gotta run you know, Sga around on the
defensive side to make him work and you know, maybe
that will hopefully tire him out on the offensive side
where he's maybe not as potent. I don't know that
that will actually happen, but I think it's something making
an attempt to do, you know, at different points throughout
the course of the series, because I'd much rather lose
(37:10):
this series if I'm Indiana, you know, with Jason Williams
and ched Holm Grant and guys like that, you know,
going off as opposed to Esga doing his MVP dance
on me kind of throughout the course of those other
game series. So they got to make ishe work on
the defensive side of the basketball as well, And I
think they have enough depth in guys and this will
they be able to do that. Not necessarily great one
on one guys, I don't think them hard and the
Smith are these guys you know, just try to take
(37:31):
you off the trouble per se. But again, you know,
putting him putting is sha in action with whoever he's guarding,
because I think he's going to be guarding probably the
lesser of the offensive. Uh, you know, stars if you
frow Ondianiana side, but you got to get him involved
one way.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right, seaw real quick, and then
we have to make our predictions. Who is your reigin
maker for both the Pacers and for the Oklahoma City
Thunder Aside from the star players, the SGAs and the
Tyrese Halliburtons, who do you feel like has an opportunity
need to be a rain maker in this series?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, I'm going to go back to the aspect of
it's two guys for Niana really for me, you know,
And I don't want to discredit what TJ McConnell's been
able to do in terms of when he comes in
and changes the pace for the Pacers, you know, as
a backup point guard. But Turner should have a much
better series here. Chet and Heartenstein are not They're not Kat.
And while you can say that might be good for
(38:24):
some reasons, Kat decided that, you know what, Turner, you
cannot guard me on the perimeter, like you have to
respect my jumper and away. But if I decided to
put on the floor, you have no hope. Chet and
Heartstein don't have those types of chops. These not off
the bounce. So I think Turner can have a more
impactful series in this, and then I think conversely on
the the other guy on the Indiana side too, I
think as aforementioned math room whish, I don't need to
(38:45):
kind of really gate that too. So I think those
two guys from Niana have to play well. The Pacers
are going to you know, make this a long series.
And then conversely for okay, see it is not necessarily
an offensive thing for me, I think they can they
can maintain this same level of defense with Caruso on
the floor in case I Wallace on the floor, Like
is the defense there's truly no drop off when you know,
(39:07):
the the Indiana offensive guys like the top ends and
the maxmins kind of come in. Can they still get
that same level of defensive production, not from their starters
per se. So that's where it's like, it's kind of
a tale of two teams really where I think Indiana
needs to figure out a way to tap in even
more into their offensive chops, which I think is going
to be a tough defense. Well, okay see he needs
to dig down into what they do best, but their defense,
(39:27):
especially with some of their supplemental and auxiliary guys.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, I like what I like where you were going
with that one.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I'll just throw in one because you you kind of
already mentioned from the Indiana side, I'm gonna go with
chet Holmgren for the Oklahoma City Thunder as a rain maker.
I really believe that he has an opportunity one to
extend Miles Turner if he had if Mos Turner has him,
or maybe even Pascal Siakam. I think chet Holmgrim is
moving quite you know, nicely. Throughout the course of this
(39:56):
NBA Playoffs. He's given you a few twenty something put
us point performances hitting the three and then also from
a defensive perspective, bro averaging two blocks per game essentially, Like,
I just feel like if he is on one and
he is really complementing what we're expecting to see from
SGA and j Williams, that's going to be a problem
(40:17):
for the Indian pacer. This is way too much firepower
coming from all aspects, you know, every dynamic of the
Oklahoma City Thunder.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
All right.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
So with that being said, Shaw, well you got how
many games?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, I'm struggling, you know, conventional wisdom and the oddsmaker says,
you know, this could be a good series, but maybe
not necessarily a long one right, and I think you'd
say maybe okay see in five or six because you
want to show respect to the pacers or whatever. I
don't know, man, I'm just at my I'm at my
tipping point. I'm tired. I'm tired of doubting Indiana. I'm
(40:54):
not so tired where I'm going to pick them to
win the series. But I think they're going to have
a better showing in this than many of the odspeakers
were giving them. So I'm gonna tip my toe in
the waters here and say, okay see in seven, in
a in a in an NBA finals and unexpected AMI
finals that we didn't expect to be a classic. But
I think Indiana is gonna show up prove in a
way that many are probably still dotting them a little
(41:15):
bit before. But I still got the Thunder winning the
NBA Championship. But I'm gonna put okayee in Southern Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Man, you're gonna have me. You're gonna be hay have
me on an island.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Man.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
You know what I'm saying. It was that dunk tank.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Everyone's gonna basically have me just swimming in the waters
just by myself, right, Just look, man, I've I've been
a fan of the Indiana Pacers as far as their resiliency,
what they've shown. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
pooh poo what they've done to get to this point.
I am gonna say, though, I don't know if they're
(41:46):
gonna be able to hang with this Oklahoma City Thunder team.
I just I'm just watching this team, bro, And you know,
forget all of the the oh, you know, just the
first championship that you know there since the KD Westbrook
and Hardened not forget all all of that. They understand
that this is their time. They understand that. I truly
feel that they truly understand that. And I think if
(42:08):
they don't get into you know, in their own heads,
they know that they are really the better team in
this in this series. Ultimately, what they cannot afford to
do is what the Knicks allowed the Pacers to do.
And I told you this, right, do not let the
Pacers take one on the road, right, don't let them
(42:28):
get one in MSG, because if you do that, it's
a wrap.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
And not only do they take one, they took it twice, right,
they took them twice.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Okay, Pacers are one of the best teams on the road.
That being said, Oklahoma City understands this moment. They are
not going to give the Indiana Pacers any level of
needed oxygen except for what they can generate on their own.
So they're gonna have to work for it. They're not gonna.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Sit there and you know, be subject to the choke
jobs or nothing like that. You're not gonna see that
with this OKAC thing. So me shaw, I'm gonna say,
OKAYC in six. But man, I really would not be
surprised if it's a gentleman's sweep. I really would not
be because, to me, defense wins championships, and the Oklahoma
City Thunder, to me, have proven throughout this playoffs their
(43:17):
defense is for real against the teams that they have
been playing against. And I just don't know. Kyle's gonna
have to pull out a masterpiece to get these guys
to break what the OKC Thunder has basically been thrown
out here so far in this NBA Playoffs.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I have nothing, I have no notes, So I was
where my heart really wants to go. But I just
feel like.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
It And the only reason why I'm saying that is
The key is the first two games in OKC.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
If the Indiana Pacers show that.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
They will hang around, they will throw it right back
at OKC, then this is gonna be a long series.
But if OKAC goes out and does what they basically
have done to teams in those first two games of
holding their home court or against teams who are base
matched up like them, say like the Minnesota Timberwolves, this
will be a quick series because it's just such a
(44:06):
it's a tough hill to climb, man, when a team
is locked in defensively, you don't have the luxury of
turn suddenly just figuring it out of how you're gonna
basically stop them from doing what they were able to
come out and execute that they've been doing all series long.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
And that's the reason why it's as hard not to
buy into that.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
What can ultimately happen, you know, in Indiana's favor is
if they can actually run partnsteign yes off the court.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
They've got to run them exactly, they got to run
them thin. They have to run run them to the
point where you're forcing OKC to have to figure out
offensively how to turn things up, which is out of
their element. I'm not saying that. Okack again, I'm not
saying they can't score. But what I'm saying is they
know they don't have to score one hundred and twenty
(44:48):
points for them to beat you. So if you're figuring
out a way to push them to think that you
got to score one hundred and twenty points, you may
actually have the edge. And we'll see if the Inana
Pacers can do that.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, well, we'll be great to see two great coaches,
you know that, and Carlisle, two great point guards, elite guards,
and Halliburn and and SGA and role players and supplemental
stars and and j Dubb and Chad and Holmgren and
like there's just there's a lot of great storylines, the.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Great This is one of the great team basketball matchups
of NBA finals that we have seen in the last
seven years. And and I'm glad that one of these
teams will deserveably hoist the trophy for the first time,
you know, you know, either for the OKC Thunder or
at all, like Nana Pacers having not won an NBA championship,
(45:37):
right yeah, so uh yeah, not not that I not
not the A B A since if they were a
BA right, Okay, yeah, so again and the Thunder don't
claim the Sonics Championship, so we'll be the first Thunder
championship for sure.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Yeah, watch this series, fans like, just watch it and
and top in. I think it could be better, better
than expected, but you know, maybe ultimately the outcome is
pretty determined, so to speak. But I think the Spacer's
team is going to surprise some folk. Share in the
semifinals a little bit too. Shout out to Halliburton, man,
and shout out to Holly's did a little bit too.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah. Absolutely, welcome back, man, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Awesome show man, awesome preview, and listen man, we definitely
want to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
We appreciate everybody who's been riding with us through this
incredible wave of NBA performances and games and playoffs, and
now that we're here with the NBA Finals and know
we're just that much closer, but hopefully you'll continue to
enjoy our ride with us for the baseline. Cali Warren Shall,
We appreciate you guys. You know, we do enjoy the
NBA Finals and we'll catch up with you next time.
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