May 8, 2025 • 44 mins
In this week’s episode of The Baseline NBA Podcast, we dive into seismic news out of San Antonio Spurs territory: Gregg Popovich retires as head coach, closing the book on one of the most legendary careers in NBA coaching history. With Mitch Johnson tapped as his successor, we break down what this means for Victor Wembanyama, the Spurs’ rebuild, and their trajectory in the Western Conference. Then, we pivot to the major fallout from the NBA Playoffs first round, where three NBA superstars — Giannis Antetokounmpo, James Harden, and Luka Dončić — faced early exits. What went wrong for the Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Clippers, and Dallas Mavericks? Will these teams bounce back or break apart this offseason? We unpack the looming questions around:
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- Potential NBA trades and free agency decisions
- Coaching changes and front office moves
- Each superstar’s path forward: stay or go?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the baseline, discussing the hot button topics of
the nb A. Welcome everybody, your tuned to the baseline.
Cali Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA.
And we are on well, I am on location. You
know it's supposed to be out here. You know it's
supposed to be sunny in California. I don't know. I
(00:21):
must have brought Jersey misery over on this side of things,
you know, I gotta tell you. But as always, Man
my man show, always looking like he is the ultimate
night show host sport in the fresh background and the backdrop.
What's good? My brother doing well?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Man doing well. Excited to be here with you on
the baseline. Yet again, we have a lot to discuss.
A lot has happened since we last convened on our podcast.
So we'll try to do a condensed, a bridge but
very healthy and meaningful episode this week, as always, be.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Abridged and healthy. Right feels like we were about to
get into one of those forty five minute you know
what is it high interval sessions to go through all
the craziness has happened basically in the last week or so.
But as always, man, we appreciate everybody for hopping on
board with us this week. As always, be sure to
get out my man Shawshaw Sports NBA Get at me
(01:15):
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(01:35):
you can not only check us, but also check out
the family of great content creators. You can go to
www dot nineteen MediaGroup dot com. So, seaw, let's get
right into it, man. So much is happening in the NBA.
It's kind of even, you know, hard to keep your
head still. It's constantly on a swivel when it comes
(01:56):
to the storylines. And obviously the big storyline that I
think really needs to you know, get a little teeth
dig ourselves into here is regarding you know, Greg Popovich,
arguably one of the greatest head coaches of all time.
He is finally you know, decided to no longer fight
(02:17):
that fight of trying to come back to coach. Obviously,
people who have been paying attention to his circumstances health condition,
suffered a major stroke and has been on the mend,
and so basically, you know, all eyes were hopeful that
he may come back to coaching, but he even he's
realized that, you know, it's time for him to move on.
(02:37):
He's not being transitioned to the president of basketball operations
and a senior role. You know, he can't get more
senior than than the dynasty that he built with the Spurs.
I just wanted to get your perspective on this show
because I think we kind of knew that this was coming.
I know that a lot of people were probably saying,
maybe Pop has stayed in in the game a little
(02:59):
bit longer than than than necessary, But we knew that
this was coming. And I just think that it's great that,
you know, while he is still healthy and still wants
to be a part of the basketball space, that the
San Antonio Spurs found a way for him to kind
of exit this spar the stage of his life gracefully
and transition him more, you know, into something that I
think we's been clearly doing for quite some time.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, there's no there's no doubt about Pop's legacy, his
meaning to the game, his meaning to san Antonio specifically,
when you talk about somebody who was never going to
get fired, you're talking about Greg Popovich. So we know.
I think from the outside looking in that the Wemby
introduction into the Spurs organization probably gave Pop a little
bit more exuberant and want to kind of have the
(03:44):
runway extend a little bit on his coaching career, but
health would not permit for that. So san Antonio doing
a right by a legacy and veteran and Hall of
Fame individual and letting him go out on his shield
in the way that he wants to still going up
to the front office to be a part of the organization,
not necessarily retiring, but doing what needs to be done
to focus on himself and his immediate family, because his
(04:06):
family needs. Basketball is cool at all, and we all
love what we cover in the NBA, but nothing's more
important than the family, and nothing more important than your
health and you being here in essence to enjoy that family.
So he's at a stage now where that makes the
most amount of sense for him. I think everybody in
the organization is aligned Wemby darn Fox, you know, Chris
Paul even to a lesson degree. They understand what needs
(04:26):
to be done here and will he'll be around in
San Antonio, won't be around on some of those away games,
and you know, we won't can see him on the
sideland a way that we're used to. But I'm happy
for him that he gets to do this in a
way that makes sense, to protect his health and to
be with his family first and foremost.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I want to say that I'm actually this is an
unsuspecting sacrifice that I think is being made here, not
just by Greg Popovich, but you know, unknowingly. The timing
of what he's doing here, I think really helps this
kind of take pause on some of the drama that
has surrounded, you know, the coaching atmosphere or the coaching
(05:08):
ethos that we've experienced over the last couple of months.
I really feel like Craig Popovich and Eric Spostra are
the last quote unquote of that dying breed. You could
probably throw Rick Carlisle in there, because I think his
second stint with the Indiana Paces will serve him properly
that if there are any changes that are going to
(05:28):
take place for coaches who have had a lot of
teeth in the game, who've shown a level of success,
the organizations are going to do right by making sure
that whether or not they land on their feet or
wherever it is that they transition to, it won't be
something that's being done just unceremoniously or in a way
that really does a disservice to both the organization and
(05:50):
also does a disservice to the legacy of the head coach.
And I appreciate the fact that even though the San
Antonio's first circumstance is not exactly like that, because it's
the San Antonio Spurs, and because it's Great Popovich, and
because there is such a long tenure of that Spur
culture that is not being tarnished in the way that
(06:13):
they're handling this, I think helps put a pause a
little bit on so much of the negativity that has
been surrounding the coaching carousel that's been happening so far
this season in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, I think we'll and I say this with a
certain level of confidence, you know, because we're both air
quote middle age or whatever. So we'll see what happens
after our time as well. But I don't know that
there'll be another Pop, not in terms of another coach
who will be able to pass as records in terms
of wins, but somebody that will be with the organization
for basically for the entirety of their career. The league
(06:46):
has transitioned to a way where we want instant gratification
and we don't give people fifteen twenty twenty five year
runways to be with an organization. It just doesn't happen.
So save Spolstra, and we know we talk a little
bit about how that situation is going in Miami, uh,
you know, And I don't know what happened once the
Riley regime kind of goes on, you know, and retires
as well. But I don't know that we'll see another
(07:08):
pop somebody, just you know that many years in consistency,
whether they are winning, middle ground, losing, rebuilding, they stuck
with him and he was a culture of that organization
in a very real and meaningful way. Now passing this
on to miss Johnson, and you know, we'll see where
that goes for him. I think he, you know, had
(07:29):
a good year as a first year head coach. But
I just feel like, truly we'll never see another one
like pop because the league just isn't formatted in a
way to allow for that level of longevity in that
specific position.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. So I just think that when it comes to,
you know, the the way we're going to start looking
at miss Johnson, we would have to give him leeway, right,
we have to give him that opportunity. I think he
did an excellent job under the circumstances. And I think
that level of confidence that you know, Popovich should have
(08:04):
in making sure that he is basically handing the reins
over to him, I think you also have to look
it well to the fan base. The fan base I
think really understands you have a generational talent. I think
they want to be supportive of Mitch Johnson's belief in
the future of what the spurs is going to look
like with wembin Yama. And I think the savviness of
Greg Popovich, you know, and what he brings, that aura
(08:27):
that he brings, I think lends him well that he's
got a little bit of of of a clearing space
for them to go out there and succeed. Listen, Johnson
made his bones right. And I think if wee Benyama
is on board any of the other prospects that the
Spurs are going to be looking at in order to
kind of, you know, bring them along the fold to
(08:48):
help round out that roster, they're all on board. I
think he's you know, he's going to be in good hands.
And again, the Spurs, despite something like this, will still
be in contention, right like, they're going to be the
conversation of the off season. They're going to be the
conversation of what level of improvement they're going to make
into the off season, and we're going to have to
pay you know, a lot of attention. One thing, I'll
(09:10):
say this before we you know, move on to you know,
the rest of our show. I just love the fact
that Tim Duncan and Manor Genobli came out there with
Papovich and in Popovich style, you know, he's like, listen,
I'm no longer the head coach and then you know
he just kind of unveils the jacket and says, I'm
(09:30):
the Hefe. Now you can call me the Hefe right
like that. You know, I only dream of having certain
head coaches have that kind of flair, who's being able
to flip that persona, that stigma that he's carried that
he's just you know, non conversational, he's non approachable. Everything
(09:50):
about him shows you the evolution of a man and
the game of basketball. While it still stays that way.
He himself has never been a about him. It's been
a brud reproach, and I think it's just great to
see that he has put himself again in that space
where you know, he's gracefully aging, but he's also gracefully
(10:12):
showing as what the game of basketball has done for
him and what he's doing for it in return.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, the driver human and the deadpen. I know there's
been a lot of people, including to myself, you know,
been afraid and well, I don't have like these great
and gargantuan Papa Bitch stories because I'm not that season
of reporter. But I've been in rooms, you know, in
a press conference where he is and yeah, I was
afraid to ask a question. But at the end of
the day, he's still incredibly humid, and that's the thing
that he didn't always show to everybody all the time,
(10:40):
but that was really really relevant and apparent. I think
when it mattered most, and he spoke out on a
lot of cultural and various issues, you know, when it
came to how our country was being run at various
times as well too, to kind of show the type
of individual and humanitarian that he really is. Like I said,
twenty nine seasons, five championships, five championships, fourteen and twenty
(11:03):
two wins, there's no other like Pop. So we salute
you on an amazing career. San Antonio spurs an amazing
organization and what he does now is going into that
front office role. I'm sure that will still be at
the level of excellence that he only the great Papa Bitch,
Great Papa, Great Papa Bitch can deliver.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, I'm just gonna miss some of that dry humor times.
He just won't be in front of the camera nearly
as much, but it was always Instagram. You're dune to
the base, You're dune to the Baselin Galli Warrant show
discussing the hot button topics of the NBA coming out.
We're gonna give our perspective what's been going on first
round impressions. You know, teams have obviously been taken off
(11:45):
the board, off the chessboard, and you know what are
what our expectations are for the next round. Is just
so much going on with the NBA, so you gotta
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Run your game coming up, Shaw not get into the
first round impressions. Don't want to miss it Here on
the baseline. We are back Cali Warrenshaw Baseline NBA Podcast.
(14:03):
Time for us to get into our first round impressions
of the NBA Playoffs. Shaw look it wasn't too too surprising.
I think when we made our predictions as it pertains
to who was going to be coming out of the
first round of the playoffs, maybe a little bit of
shake up or maybe you know, may have missed a
tari here there on wins losses. But I think the
(14:25):
bigger storyline that has to be discussed is how the
teams were exited. And I think two teams really kind
of stick out and resonate with me more than anything.
When I think about how the Los Angeles Clippers and
how the Milwaukee Bucks were eliminated in the playoffs, I
(14:45):
to me believe that those are two teams people need
to pay attention to when it comes to what the
offseason expectations might be, what the murmurs and rumblings are
going to sound like. And it it's not so much
that I'm thinking that there's going to be drastic, drastic changes,
but I think the way that these two teams performed
(15:07):
in the playoffs, how the circumstances played themselves out, I
think now has ramped up a lot more fervor about
something needing to be done for both of those organizations.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, so we said even off air, we won't get
to top Sea Ish, but at the same time, it
needs to be discussed. So you're picking them out. I'm
actually going to not necessarily dodge your question, but I'm
gonna throw a team that I didn't expect to be
out as quickly and in the fashion in that is.
And then that's the Lakers. I think I'm disappointed, you
know when that so the Clippers, Hey, they drew us
(15:42):
in once again, you know what I mean, darkness to
my old friend, like, here we go again. And while
they had very every opportunity to win that series, they
blew literally two games in that series and could have
won that series and six you know, the miraculous you know,
the dunk from from on High with Aaron Gordon, Like,
There's just so many things that went wrong for that
(16:03):
Clippers team when it comes down to it. But to me,
the Lakers are probably the more the most disappointing story
in the first round. And I'll only qualify it by
this because I think when the Luka Dakis trade originally happened,
Russia like, okay, well, this is a trade for the future.
And then they played, you know, three weeks of pretty
really pretty impressive basketball with the swarming defense that she
(16:26):
thought was going to translate, and it did not translate,
you know what I mean as the jen and sharpup Will,
I know, he's kind of a person you want to
talk about in the in the public public spaces right now. Well,
Lakers in five in terms of being out in five,
and that's a very very interesting situation that I expect
to have to be having at this stage of of
of the season. But if you flip that over to
(16:46):
to Milwaukee, it's not so much that they got beat
by Indiana. It's the aspect of Dame you know, getting
the Achilles. Now that's going to cost him a good majority,
if not all, of next year as well, and that
forces Milwaukee decisions now about Giannis and his future within
that organization. So what shakeup seems to be coming in
a real and significant way that will literally transform the league.
(17:11):
If Yannis asked to be out of Milwaukee, that changes
the landscape of whatever team he goes to and has
deep level ramifications throughout the course of the NBA.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
All Right, I'm gonna put it like this, because, like
you said, we're not trying to get you know, our
top s ish with our assessment of what happened in
the first round playoffs. But the reason why I particularly
spoke about the Clippers and the Bucks in simultaneously is
because on one hand, we're gonna be asking the question
(17:41):
about whether or not Jannis just wants to be in
this environment any longer, if whether or not he feels
like his time has come playing for the Milwaukee Bucks.
That it's not to say that he doesn't love the
Milwaukee Bucks, doesn't love the fan basis, but let's just
keep it a buck right. The Milwaukee Bucks have shown
that they have literally taken a step back as far
(18:04):
as the way that that roster is constructed and what
you're extracting and getting out of it. And I think
a lot of it, too, has been the politics of
how the Milwaukee Bucks has gone through this process of
putting that roster together, putting the coaching staff together. I
think it just gets to a point when you have
a championship caliber player, a player who has basically put
an organization a culture on your shoulders, you no longer
(18:26):
can continue to keep doing this because unless something changes
at the top, or someone's taking what he's saying seriously,
valuing where he's coming from about his work ethic, his style,
his drive is not being matched with the people you're
bringing to him. That's going to send him somewhere else. Right,
So I say that to say something needs to happen
about the coaching situation, because you can't tell me that
(18:48):
the rosters you had last year with that same head
coach and they've now again been exited. And I say
this tongue in cheek to say, I appreciate, I love
and will always respect the head coach, but come on now, seriously,
And so now I take this all the way across
(19:08):
the states to the Los Angeles Clippers, and here's what
I'm saying. It's not that you get rid of Tyron Lou,
but I really think you do have to look at
what kind of players does Tyron Lou want and need
that he can get the best out of what you
saw in what he's been doing the last few years.
We've been saying this for a long time. Shaw. Sometimes
(19:30):
it's great that the organization goes out and just gets
players and just say hey, we're going to put you,
We're going to give you the best roster possible, and
then you see how that roster executes, especially in situations
like what we just saw in the first round of
the playoffs, and you have to say to yourself, is
that really the way that we want to go about
doing it. Maybe we do need to lean in on
(19:51):
how a tyrone lu coaches up his team, you know
what I'm saying. And then when you have to be
dependent on your star players, recognizing that your star players
will only get you to a certain point. It's that
other aspect of the coaching, right like how he influences
the zoo Bots, how he influences those other guys and
things of that nature. And to me, I just saw
(20:11):
where to your point, those opportunities that presented itself, where
you're playing against veteran laden teams like the Denver Nuggets,
a veteran Layden team like the Indiana Pacer who fresh
came off of getting to the Eastern Conference finals, you
just don't take those type of matchups lightly, especially when
you know that when who you're playing against arguably is
going to have mismatched situations kind of come you know,
(20:34):
come to fruition. I just found it kind of you
know interesting. You saw the contrast in the in mentalities
about how these these teams offered itself. You know. So
that was just my take from from what I saw
from that first round of the teams that disappointed me
the most.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, I can see where there's disappointment in that, and
I think for me, there's a certain level of respect
I have in losing to Joker, all right. I just think,
you know, despite their transgressions and changing coaches right before
the end of the season and all of that, Jokers
bought it in a way that we haven't really seen before.
(21:09):
And a seven game loss, although the seventh game was
pretty embarrassing, I think is less of an indictment on
Lou than it is the the opponent in which they played.
In addition to Lou having to manage this situation with
Kawhi being in and out of the line up for
the last you know, three four years and then now
finally this year, he's healthy to the latter part when
it matters most. But they ran into a team that
(21:30):
quite frankly, had more continuity and was able to, you know,
get it done with the best player in the NBA.
So I think the way they lost, while while very
disappointing and they had their chances, I'm still giving Lou specifically,
maybe a little bit more of a runway to like,
all right, well, can you ever get people to be
healthy there? And well, I think the answer to that
is no, Like we know that, we know Kawhi is
(21:52):
never going to play sixty or sixty five games in
a season again, like, that's not going to happen. He's
going to be in the thirty to forty range and
then hopefully you know he's healthy for the playoffs. The
question then comes about with hardened and that, so I
don't lose done a really good job, and I would be,
I'd be. I just wouldn't want to kind of look
at him as the reason for any of the of
the loss here as much as I think the overall
(22:15):
kind of not necessarily the roster construction, but the reliance
on the roster itself and understanding who they really are
was why what I said in the beginning in the
middle part of our year when I was like, hey,
they need the reality stone because this is not a
team that's going to be able to get it done.
But you know, I appreciate the Clippers fighting hard great.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I will say, though, sorry to interrupt you, I will say, though,
give credit to the Denver Nuggets, right because maybe this
was the exact matchup they needed to really kind of
get it right and get it all together given the
tumultuous season that they've endured the last couple of weeks.
(22:56):
Right Like, let's not forget they're not playing they're not
playing under the same head coad coach, right, and the togetherness,
the cohesiveness of that team, to me still is a
work in progress. But for a first round matchup, a
team like the Clippers could have very easily had upset
(23:19):
that could have till the end. To your point, there
were games that the Clippers should have won in that series.
I mean, essentially they probably could have been going to
the next round. I think to what I was saying,
And again I'm not trying to put it on Tyron
Lou but I do think that I think, like like
when we just finished talking about Greg Popovich, some coaches
(23:43):
have to have a turning point about the way they
go about their business, right Like, you're not handed the
same kind of Cleveland Warriors team that you got when
you won your championship, right, and you may not even
have the same type of team that you're working with
what you've had with the Clippers when you had Paul
George and Kawhi Leonard, Right. I just feel like I
would have probably loved to have seen a different version
(24:03):
of Tyron lou right, one that actually may put you know,
a guy like James Harden on ice a little bit like, yeah, man,
your numbers were great, but it troubles me that you
only took eight shots in a game seven situation and
you're arguably one of the best players that's still supposed
to be in a game. How does that happen? How
does that happen? You know what I mean? Like, I
(24:25):
want to hear coaches speak to that rather than kind
of biting the bullet, so to speak, and saying, yeah,
you know, it's just you know, just the cars it
in play, right, or you know, pointing it off on
something that clearly like it shouldn't be something that is
only being kind of articulated by the media right when
we clearly see right like, hey man, if your guys
(24:48):
checked out, your guy's not there, then you know what,
you sit them down and you put somebody in there
who's going to show what it is that like that
that you put all this effort in coaching these guys
that even get them in this place position. So again,
like I you know, I'm not again, I'm not trying
to criticize Tyron lou but I'm saying, like, at what
point do we get to see them get to that
(25:09):
turning point? You know what I'm saying, Like we've seen
Greg Popovich at a turning point, We've seen Eric Spolstra
at a turning point. And I think this is why
we say they're among the great coaches in the game
of basketball, because they don't you see where they've made
those changes, where they've implemented things differently. And I'll speak
to this again because we're talking about first round impressions.
(25:29):
This to me also brings in to question. You know,
as much as I admire and I appreciate what jab
Vickerstaff did for this Detroit Pistons team, again, you know,
to you have this opportunity where you're really helping to
show people the evolution of you as a coach, especially
after what you're seeing the Cleveland Cavaliers do. And this
was a prime situation where you had an opportunity to
(25:52):
again catapult that Detroit is like show you know that
you're even better than a better head coach than Tom
Thibodeau and you make critical mistakes down the stretch that
kind of you know, we're not talking about it because
they got eliminated, but I do think that the Pistons, again,
they could have had the opportunity to put themselves in
that position. I think it disappointed me with the way
(26:12):
that they approach things, knowing that they had that game
six in hand and they didn't make adjustments. So, you know, again,
like we're talking about all of the you know, head
coaches and things of that nature and not trying to
you know, put a stink on it, you know, sort
of sort of speak. But at the same time, I'm
just saying that, like this again was a master class
(26:33):
and recognizing, you know, the differences of what can tilt
a series. You know, if you're not making those necessary adjustments,
or you're not putting your team in the best position
possible to win, and you're working with players that again,
you know, if you know who they are and what
they are, do you continue to keep trying to ride
out on the hopes that they're going to be better
(26:53):
than what you've already expected or what you've already seen
them present to you.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, other teams that we mentioned. You know, when you
talk about the rounds, the first round fallen, I'd say
the Clippers clearly, because they literally blew two games, probably
feel like they should most likely be in the second round. Houston.
You could maybe make that argument for as well, to
a lesser degree, although they did get to a Game seven.
I feel like the Warriors took their foots off the
(27:19):
gas and that series, especially in games five and six.
But to me, the interesting thing, well, the pisses lost
in six. They're they're they're not the better team.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
They lost. Let me just say that they're not the
better team, however, But which is why was so important
that JB. Bickerstaff has his imprint, because it was going
to take that if you weren't gonna you're not getting
that herculean effort from Kate Cunningham. You know what I'm
saying this is his first year.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Is that they for for all intentive purposes, like they
got screwed in one of the games, right with I
think that was Game three where the ref missed a
call on Tim Hardaway or whatever the case may be.
So fine, right, so they blow that game or they
lose that game because of a non call, per se
you assume Hardaway goes and hits at least two out
of those three to give them the win there, and
(28:10):
then you're riding in game six. You know what, was
they up seven with two and a half minutes to
play and they end up losing that game. That's the
aspect of you know, being young. You can go back
to all the way in game one where they got
rocked out in the fourth quarter, just turned the ball over,
turn the ball over and it's like a twenty one
to ohero run. I think in the fourth quarter that took
them essentially out of that game that they were winning
in that as well too. So we want to understand
(28:32):
and respect the process because I think we both said
with Houston and Detroit, well they got to come in
here and get their lumps. They got their lumps, but
they also feel like, well, we were closer than we
probably should have been, and so those lumps are even
harder to swallow now because they could have won. They
literally could have won and been in the next round.
And I know pisses lost in six, but they were
(28:52):
competitive in these games and really could have turned things around.
So to me, it's not disheartening per se, but the Clippers,
the Pistons, and the Rockets all probably feel like they
could they should be still playing basketball right now.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, and again, I think that to me is what
has really been impressive. Like you look at the series,
you know, the way the series has ended, right you see,
you know, for two, you know, for one, for one,
whatever the case may be. I just think that the
games have been a lot more competitive then I think
(29:25):
most people you know are are are you know, looking
on the surface towards and then what I think highlights
a lot of that what we're talking about with the
first round impressions and the frustration. So I'm gonna go
back to your Los Angeles Lakers. I know we're bouncing around.
I'm gonna go back to the point of the Los
Angeles Lakers. The reason why it would not disappoint me
(29:47):
to see that the Los Angeles Lakers got eliminated is
because this isn't this, This to me is a quote
unquote coming to Jesus moment for Luka Doncic. I think
much has been talked about, you know, everybody saying that he,
you know, the worst defender in the NBA. I'm not
even going to get into all of the hyperbole, because
(30:08):
I think a little bit is too much over the top.
To me, this is not just about Luka Donkic's lack
of defense. It is Luka Donkic's lack of humility to
where he is as a star athlete, what he means
(30:29):
to the organization, and what he means to the brand
of the game. Right. So, in other words, if we
want to go old school and look at players that
you love to hate, right, how many of them complain
as much as he does to the refs? How many
of them does you know he basically say, no, matter
(30:50):
what happens, I'm not changing the style in the way
that I play my game of basketball, even when teams
are forcing you to have to do that and you
decides still not to do it. Right, In some ways,
it almost looks like you're just middle fingering every conceivable
idea that you don't want to evolve until you're ready
(31:11):
to evolve. And that's great, that's all well and good,
But I don't know how you can continue to do that.
If you're going to play next to a Lebron James,
I don't know how you can continue to do that
and think that Rob Polenka is going to be able
to put together a championship caliber roster that you're going
to be able to help elevate and create and make
better for because you're going to ultimately need somebody that's
going to augment the things that you're supposed to get
(31:32):
better at doing or evolve at doing. And I don't
know if you're willing to want to do that. And
I think that's the greatest conundrum right Like Lakers fans
are going to be cool with this. He's a great superstar,
but are they going to continue to tolerate how he
goes about being that superstar? You know what I'm saying, Like,
there was no way Magic Johnson could have continued to
be the kind of player that he was next to
(31:53):
a Kareem Abdul Jabbar. When Kareem Abdul Jabbar showed you
he was the standard, at some point, Magic Johnson had
to e And at that point when Kareem recognized that,
they learned how to play together and they went out
and win championships. You don't have the luxury like that
with the Lebron James because his window isn't like that,
you know what I'm saying. But if we want to
kind of Liken the Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar experience.
(32:15):
With what we're seeing from Aluka Donkic, this would be
the coming to Jesus moment that I think you want
to see. And I say that because that's the same
case with a lot of the players that were playing
in this first round. Like you look at the James Hardens, right,
you look at the Kawhi Leonards. These are some kind
of come to Jesus moment. Can you continue to get
away with doing what you're doing because you were making
(32:35):
a lot of money and the game is the way
it's situated. Now that you're getting knocked out of the
first round and we're good with the new generation of
talent that's there, I don't know if you have the
luxury to continue to keep operating in that same space.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah. For me, the Lakers is it's a collective loss.
And I know everything was pointed at Luca and you know,
ergo Lebron not scoring in the fourth quarters of games
and so forth. But also you forget your j Redicks
on that sidelines as a rookie year rookie head coach,
and had he made rookie mistakes, you know, think back
to Missoulu in the first year, you know, getting in
(33:09):
that job in the wake of the Udoka scandal and
just being completely obstinate, just like I have to do
it this way, and not understanding the need to adjust
and you know, really tried truly game manage. And I
think Reddick came into this situation and made some full
pause and a lot was made about, you know, the
(33:30):
the no rest in game five, sorry in game four
where he rescued, played only the five starters for the
entirety of the second half and they ran out of gas.
And you can say that's a rookie mistake, but that's
who he trusted. So then that's also then you know,
the majority of the roster, the roster construction wasn't really
what you wanted it to be. You can talk about
the about the Mark Williams thing not being there and
(33:50):
what that would have did in that specific series, But
to me, I'm just saying there's a there's a lot
of collective blame to go around with that Lakers losing
in five, And while I'm still surprise that happened, I
want to give credit to Minnesota and Anthony Edwards for
being able to get it done, and Rudy Gobert playing
the game of this absolute friggin life, you know, in
game five, you know, with the twenty twenty to send
(34:12):
the Lakers home or to keep the Lakers home, I
guess in that in that actual instance there. But this
first round has brought on a lot of nuance and
a lot of great experiences as well too. And while
we transition quickly off the Lakers, and you know, we
already talked about Miami and Memphis because we gave them
autopsy reports as well too, I did want to shout out,
not necessarily shout out, but I did want to mention,
(34:33):
you know, the Orlando magic here. They weren't where they
expected to be, right, they weren't where they expected to be,
but they were physical. I think they forced the Celtics
to play differently, and so credit to Celtics for learning
to play differently and winning in a different fashion than
they're used to. But Orlando kind of dictated that series
(34:54):
with their style, and despite you know, losing in five games,
being able to dictate the temple is something that not
a lot of teams, especially younger teams, have the ability
to do. And they they chained the playstyle of that
series by by playing hard nose and physical defense kind
of throughout it. So shadow Orlando and Jamal Moseley and
what that was. What a truly t multual season for
(35:15):
them to Riddled with injuries, they have a lot of
work to do, but hopefully they will get some guys back,
you know, and see if they will be above that
playing line going.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Into next year. Yeah, and listen, we'll have our opportunity
to autops the Orlando Magic. But as I was just mentioning,
you know to you before, gritty performance, absolutely gritty performance
by the Orlando Magic. And I think the one thing
too is you know, when you play, when you play
the defending champs, right, you could probably hang your hat
(35:44):
on the fact that, you know, yeah, we kept the
games close, We should have probably won a couple of
those games, whatever the case may be. That's fine. But
when you play against the team and you realize that
that team is taking you seriously, right, and you frustrated them,
you you basically force them to have to you know
that you've you're playing the best of the best, because
they're gonna go out and they're going to do it.
(36:06):
They're not gonna they're not going to continue to complain
throughout the course of the series. I gonna wait until
you know it's an elimination game or anything like that.
And I think if you're to Orlando Magic, you have
to look at what was your weakness, what was your
what was what was it that kept you from finding
that next gear or getting over the top. You know
what I'm saying, And it's the ability to get clean looks,
(36:29):
you know, shooting the basketball and shooting basketball with the
level of consistency and efficiency. Like, if you're gonna play
that style of basketball, if you're gonna play that way
where you're limiting possessions, you have got to make the
shots that you have access to, right And when you're
playing against a good team like the like the Boston
Celtics in that they have the ability to rebound, that
(36:50):
means they're going to minimize your opportunities to get those shots.
And I think to me, again, if people were paying
attention to this and not looking at just what the
series total was, you know, winning four to two or
you know, losing for one or whatever the case may be,
you were seeing a lot of competitive play there. And
(37:10):
you're also looking at it and saying, is this team capable,
if fully healthy, replicating what they showed you that they
were capable of doing in this season's playoffs. And I
can definitely tell you that there are a couple of
teams that I feel a lot more confident that when
they get their roster together, they'll head the executives actually
start making the necessary moves to improve. You know, they
(37:32):
don't have to go crazy, but they definitely have to
improve on some of those elements, and some of those
things I can see in confidence that if they get
into the playoffs again next year, who knows, the matchup
might favor them a whole lot better and a whole
lot more than what with the outcome was for them
in this year's playoffs.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
So well, why don't we close or pseudo clothes on this?
And it's not necessarily who you got? Because I have
all kinds of things racing in my head right now,
right because I think we've done all who you Got
before with Paulo. But I'm intrigued, you know, with the
with the who you got? Of of the young teams
that were eliminated in this first round, who would you
(38:09):
most likely rather be? And some of that is going
to take into context what conferences are in because the
West is clearly deeper than the Eustern conference.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
But would you.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Rather be the Young Pistons, the Young Magic, the Young Rockets,
or uh the Yeah that's it right, yeah, yeah, so yeah,
the Rockets, the Pistons, or or the the Magic. Sorry,
I'm getting all the tongue tied here, Rockets.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Of those would you prefer to be? I would prefer
to be the Magic. I know, I've been a staunch
Pistons advocate, and I love Kate Canningham. I'd solely just
drop on Kate if I could. But if you're tasking
(38:56):
me to say which team am I going to ride with,
that can probably have them, like, can do the most
damage in the next couple of years, that combination of
Wagner and bon Caro. And let me tell you something,
bon Caro was so impressive in the series against the
Boston Celtics. I mean he was he was basically war
machine literally like he was. He had he was in
(39:19):
his bag against a very good Boston Celtics defense. And
I don't care what anybody wants to try to convince
me to tell me otherwise. Bon Caro to me, was
the MVP of the first round of the playoffs in
that he knew that he was basically up against it,
like you know Wagner. You know, there's undone the level
of Wagner. I don't know how great he can become,
(39:39):
but the level of that I saw from bon Caro,
you know, especially after what happened to him last year,
you know, and how his you know, he got exited,
you could clearly tell that he grew from that experience.
And I would say this, man, if he didn't suffer
the injury that he suffered in the beginning of the
regular season, who knows how prime he would have been,
(40:04):
like his numbers and everything like that going into this series.
That could probably have even more impact on the influence
that you would have had in the outcome of that series. Again,
Bonkara just just totally impressed me. He's a scary dude. Bro,
scary dude.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I like that. I mean, I think you're saying that
with your just for sure. The notion of Detroit being
as kind of just coming from the dol drums is
like such a nice story that it's kind of hard
to not like latch on to the excitement and the
promise of that what JB was able to build, and
I think when you're talking about the franchise player, it stops,
(40:39):
not stops, but you like maybe the ceilings upon Karen
Kaid maybe a little bit more. But a man is
somebody who people are literally drooling over on Houston and Washington.
Goon is there and he's obviously a really good basketball
player too. People are like, yo, what a man could
potentially potentially turn out to They feel like there's not
a ceiling that we can see just yet, which I
(41:00):
think is really interesting. But the Rockets to me, have
the best collection of talent and are probably the best
coached currently. And that's not to say yes because they
were the two suits in the Western Conference. I just
really feel like they have guys in a reserve that
they didn't even go to like Cam Wentmore just like
fell out of the rotation. Rich Shepperd couldn't make the
rotation either. Like these are players that I think other
(41:20):
teams would love to have on their potfobial rosters. So
if I was building, you gave me a chance to
go with wish it for a team, I think Houston,
especially with their draft capital, would be the team that
I would go with in addition to the collection of
talent that they currently have, inclusive of guys who are
not even really playing, because those guys can probably get
me another star if I wanted to. But I think
this is a really interesting conversation. Both these three young
(41:42):
teams have higher ceilings than they showed this year, and
I can't wait to see when they actualize that potential.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what the Detroit
Pistons try. And do you know, to your point, we
could have easily probably picked up on the Pistons. I'm
a little lary of can you give me the same
thing that you gave me with Malik Beasily sick at
two years in a row. And you know, even if
you have a like I still I still think that
there's much more room And to your point, like that's
(42:10):
one of the reason why I was hedging my bets
a little bit about the Magic because I haven't seen, like,
you know, Jalen Suggs he suffered his injury, Does he
take a step forward? You know? And what will see
version of him will come into that season because I
really do think that they want him to be the
point guard you know, for that for that magic team.
So it'll be interesting to see, you know, what other
(42:31):
guys take that next step. But yeah, man, all three
of these teams so impressive, at least from my perspective
of what they They showed us what the potential could
be for them. And I do think to your point Shaw,
if there's a team that people really need to pay
attention to, that that two seed by the Houston Rockets,
I don't think is a fluke. I do think that
(42:53):
if they get you know, one or two other players
to kind of round out, maybe Adokah shifts a little
bit about how that ball movement goes and flows through
sengoon and where a'm and Thompson can take that next
step and commanding you know, more ball, more ball handling
responsibilities or maybe even more scoring opportunities responsibilities. Yeah. Absolutely, man.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Well, I definitely have the autops in the Rockets because
I'd love to get some thoughts here on the Jelling
Green experience and all that, but we'll save that for
when we can have on the surgery the surgeon gloves
and we have the scalpels out, because a lot more
to unpack.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
There with all of these teams. I know, man, I
had you know, I brought I brought my traveling you
know what I'm saying, My CSI kit dropped. I brought
it with me. But uh yeah, we had to pivot.
That's okay, though, That's that's okay. We'll be we'll be
ready to uh you know I'm saying dissect and you
know what I'm saying on the next go around. Yes, sir, Hey,
(43:49):
this has been a great, great episode and as always, man,
we appreciate everybody for hopping on board with us this
week for the baseline Cali warren Shaw. We appreciate you guys,
you know we do, and we will catch up with
you next stop.
This is the baseline, discussing the hot button topics of
the nb A. Welcome everybody, your tuned to the baseline.
Cali Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA.
And we are on well, I am on location. You
know it's supposed to be out here. You know it's
supposed to be sunny in California. I don't know. I
(00:21):
must have brought Jersey misery over on this side of things,
you know, I gotta tell you. But as always, Man
my man show, always looking like he is the ultimate
night show host sport in the fresh background and the backdrop.
What's good? My brother doing well?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Man doing well. Excited to be here with you on
the baseline. Yet again, we have a lot to discuss.
A lot has happened since we last convened on our podcast.
So we'll try to do a condensed, a bridge but
very healthy and meaningful episode this week, as always, be.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Abridged and healthy. Right feels like we were about to
get into one of those forty five minute you know
what is it high interval sessions to go through all
the craziness has happened basically in the last week or so.
But as always, man, we appreciate everybody for hopping on
board with us this week. As always, be sure to
get out my man Shawshaw Sports NBA Get at me
(01:15):
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(01:35):
you can not only check us, but also check out
the family of great content creators. You can go to
www dot nineteen MediaGroup dot com. So, seaw, let's get
right into it, man. So much is happening in the NBA.
It's kind of even, you know, hard to keep your
head still. It's constantly on a swivel when it comes
(01:56):
to the storylines. And obviously the big storyline that I
think really needs to you know, get a little teeth
dig ourselves into here is regarding you know, Greg Popovich,
arguably one of the greatest head coaches of all time.
He is finally you know, decided to no longer fight
(02:17):
that fight of trying to come back to coach. Obviously,
people who have been paying attention to his circumstances health condition,
suffered a major stroke and has been on the mend,
and so basically, you know, all eyes were hopeful that
he may come back to coaching, but he even he's
realized that, you know, it's time for him to move on.
(02:37):
He's not being transitioned to the president of basketball operations
and a senior role. You know, he can't get more
senior than than the dynasty that he built with the Spurs.
I just wanted to get your perspective on this show
because I think we kind of knew that this was coming.
I know that a lot of people were probably saying,
maybe Pop has stayed in in the game a little
(02:59):
bit longer than than than necessary, But we knew that
this was coming. And I just think that it's great that,
you know, while he is still healthy and still wants
to be a part of the basketball space, that the
San Antonio Spurs found a way for him to kind
of exit this spar the stage of his life gracefully
and transition him more, you know, into something that I
think we's been clearly doing for quite some time.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, there's no there's no doubt about Pop's legacy, his
meaning to the game, his meaning to san Antonio specifically,
when you talk about somebody who was never going to
get fired, you're talking about Greg Popovich. So we know.
I think from the outside looking in that the Wemby
introduction into the Spurs organization probably gave Pop a little
bit more exuberant and want to kind of have the
(03:44):
runway extend a little bit on his coaching career, but
health would not permit for that. So san Antonio doing
a right by a legacy and veteran and Hall of
Fame individual and letting him go out on his shield
in the way that he wants to still going up
to the front office to be a part of the organization,
not necessarily retiring, but doing what needs to be done
to focus on himself and his immediate family, because his
(04:06):
family needs. Basketball is cool at all, and we all
love what we cover in the NBA, but nothing's more
important than the family, and nothing more important than your
health and you being here in essence to enjoy that family.
So he's at a stage now where that makes the
most amount of sense for him. I think everybody in
the organization is aligned Wemby darn Fox, you know, Chris
Paul even to a lesson degree. They understand what needs
(04:26):
to be done here and will he'll be around in
San Antonio, won't be around on some of those away games,
and you know, we won't can see him on the
sideland a way that we're used to. But I'm happy
for him that he gets to do this in a
way that makes sense, to protect his health and to
be with his family first and foremost.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I want to say that I'm actually this is an
unsuspecting sacrifice that I think is being made here, not
just by Greg Popovich, but you know, unknowingly. The timing
of what he's doing here, I think really helps this
kind of take pause on some of the drama that
has surrounded, you know, the coaching atmosphere or the coaching
(05:08):
ethos that we've experienced over the last couple of months.
I really feel like Craig Popovich and Eric Spostra are
the last quote unquote of that dying breed. You could
probably throw Rick Carlisle in there, because I think his
second stint with the Indiana Paces will serve him properly
that if there are any changes that are going to
(05:28):
take place for coaches who have had a lot of
teeth in the game, who've shown a level of success,
the organizations are going to do right by making sure
that whether or not they land on their feet or
wherever it is that they transition to, it won't be
something that's being done just unceremoniously or in a way
that really does a disservice to both the organization and
(05:50):
also does a disservice to the legacy of the head coach.
And I appreciate the fact that even though the San
Antonio's first circumstance is not exactly like that, because it's
the San Antonio Spurs, and because it's Great Popovich, and
because there is such a long tenure of that Spur
culture that is not being tarnished in the way that
(06:13):
they're handling this, I think helps put a pause a
little bit on so much of the negativity that has
been surrounding the coaching carousel that's been happening so far
this season in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, I think we'll and I say this with a
certain level of confidence, you know, because we're both air
quote middle age or whatever. So we'll see what happens
after our time as well. But I don't know that
there'll be another Pop, not in terms of another coach
who will be able to pass as records in terms
of wins, but somebody that will be with the organization
for basically for the entirety of their career. The league
(06:46):
has transitioned to a way where we want instant gratification
and we don't give people fifteen twenty twenty five year
runways to be with an organization. It just doesn't happen.
So save Spolstra, and we know we talk a little
bit about how that situation is going in Miami, uh,
you know, And I don't know what happened once the
Riley regime kind of goes on, you know, and retires
as well. But I don't know that we'll see another
(07:08):
pop somebody, just you know that many years in consistency,
whether they are winning, middle ground, losing, rebuilding, they stuck
with him and he was a culture of that organization
in a very real and meaningful way. Now passing this
on to miss Johnson, and you know, we'll see where
that goes for him. I think he, you know, had
(07:29):
a good year as a first year head coach. But
I just feel like, truly we'll never see another one
like pop because the league just isn't formatted in a
way to allow for that level of longevity in that
specific position.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. So I just think that when it comes to,
you know, the the way we're going to start looking
at miss Johnson, we would have to give him leeway, right,
we have to give him that opportunity. I think he
did an excellent job under the circumstances. And I think
that level of confidence that you know, Popovich should have
(08:04):
in making sure that he is basically handing the reins
over to him, I think you also have to look
it well to the fan base. The fan base I
think really understands you have a generational talent. I think
they want to be supportive of Mitch Johnson's belief in
the future of what the spurs is going to look
like with wembin Yama. And I think the savviness of
Greg Popovich, you know, and what he brings, that aura
(08:27):
that he brings, I think lends him well that he's
got a little bit of of of a clearing space
for them to go out there and succeed. Listen, Johnson
made his bones right. And I think if wee Benyama
is on board any of the other prospects that the
Spurs are going to be looking at in order to
kind of, you know, bring them along the fold to
(08:48):
help round out that roster, they're all on board. I
think he's you know, he's going to be in good hands.
And again, the Spurs, despite something like this, will still
be in contention, right like, they're going to be the
conversation of the off season. They're going to be the
conversation of what level of improvement they're going to make
into the off season, and we're going to have to
pay you know, a lot of attention. One thing, I'll
(09:10):
say this before we you know, move on to you know,
the rest of our show. I just love the fact
that Tim Duncan and Manor Genobli came out there with
Papovich and in Popovich style, you know, he's like, listen,
I'm no longer the head coach and then you know
he just kind of unveils the jacket and says, I'm
(09:30):
the Hefe. Now you can call me the Hefe right
like that. You know, I only dream of having certain
head coaches have that kind of flair, who's being able
to flip that persona, that stigma that he's carried that
he's just you know, non conversational, he's non approachable. Everything
(09:50):
about him shows you the evolution of a man and
the game of basketball. While it still stays that way.
He himself has never been a about him. It's been
a brud reproach, and I think it's just great to
see that he has put himself again in that space
where you know, he's gracefully aging, but he's also gracefully
(10:12):
showing as what the game of basketball has done for
him and what he's doing for it in return.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, the driver human and the deadpen. I know there's
been a lot of people, including to myself, you know,
been afraid and well, I don't have like these great
and gargantuan Papa Bitch stories because I'm not that season
of reporter. But I've been in rooms, you know, in
a press conference where he is and yeah, I was
afraid to ask a question. But at the end of
the day, he's still incredibly humid, and that's the thing
that he didn't always show to everybody all the time,
(10:40):
but that was really really relevant and apparent. I think
when it mattered most, and he spoke out on a
lot of cultural and various issues, you know, when it
came to how our country was being run at various
times as well too, to kind of show the type
of individual and humanitarian that he really is. Like I said,
twenty nine seasons, five championships, five championships, fourteen and twenty
(11:03):
two wins, there's no other like Pop. So we salute
you on an amazing career. San Antonio spurs an amazing
organization and what he does now is going into that
front office role. I'm sure that will still be at
the level of excellence that he only the great Papa Bitch,
Great Papa, Great Papa Bitch can deliver.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, I'm just gonna miss some of that dry humor times.
He just won't be in front of the camera nearly
as much, but it was always Instagram. You're dune to
the base, You're dune to the Baselin Galli Warrant show
discussing the hot button topics of the NBA coming out.
We're gonna give our perspective what's been going on first
round impressions. You know, teams have obviously been taken off
(11:45):
the board, off the chessboard, and you know what are
what our expectations are for the next round. Is just
so much going on with the NBA, so you gotta
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Run your game coming up, Shaw not get into the
first round impressions. Don't want to miss it Here on
the baseline. We are back Cali Warrenshaw Baseline NBA Podcast.
(14:03):
Time for us to get into our first round impressions
of the NBA Playoffs. Shaw look it wasn't too too surprising.
I think when we made our predictions as it pertains
to who was going to be coming out of the
first round of the playoffs, maybe a little bit of
shake up or maybe you know, may have missed a
tari here there on wins losses. But I think the
(14:25):
bigger storyline that has to be discussed is how the
teams were exited. And I think two teams really kind
of stick out and resonate with me more than anything.
When I think about how the Los Angeles Clippers and
how the Milwaukee Bucks were eliminated in the playoffs, I
(14:45):
to me believe that those are two teams people need
to pay attention to when it comes to what the
offseason expectations might be, what the murmurs and rumblings are
going to sound like. And it it's not so much
that I'm thinking that there's going to be drastic, drastic changes,
but I think the way that these two teams performed
(15:07):
in the playoffs, how the circumstances played themselves out, I
think now has ramped up a lot more fervor about
something needing to be done for both of those organizations.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, so we said even off air, we won't get
to top Sea Ish, but at the same time, it
needs to be discussed. So you're picking them out. I'm
actually going to not necessarily dodge your question, but I'm
gonna throw a team that I didn't expect to be
out as quickly and in the fashion in that is.
And then that's the Lakers. I think I'm disappointed, you
know when that so the Clippers, Hey, they drew us
(15:42):
in once again, you know what I mean, darkness to
my old friend, like, here we go again. And while
they had very every opportunity to win that series, they
blew literally two games in that series and could have
won that series and six you know, the miraculous you know,
the dunk from from on High with Aaron Gordon, Like,
There's just so many things that went wrong for that
(16:03):
Clippers team when it comes down to it. But to me,
the Lakers are probably the more the most disappointing story
in the first round. And I'll only qualify it by
this because I think when the Luka Dakis trade originally happened,
Russia like, okay, well, this is a trade for the future.
And then they played, you know, three weeks of pretty
really pretty impressive basketball with the swarming defense that she
(16:26):
thought was going to translate, and it did not translate,
you know what I mean as the jen and sharpup Will,
I know, he's kind of a person you want to
talk about in the in the public public spaces right now. Well,
Lakers in five in terms of being out in five,
and that's a very very interesting situation that I expect
to have to be having at this stage of of
of the season. But if you flip that over to
(16:46):
to Milwaukee, it's not so much that they got beat
by Indiana. It's the aspect of Dame you know, getting
the Achilles. Now that's going to cost him a good majority,
if not all, of next year as well, and that
forces Milwaukee decisions now about Giannis and his future within
that organization. So what shakeup seems to be coming in
a real and significant way that will literally transform the league.
(17:11):
If Yannis asked to be out of Milwaukee, that changes
the landscape of whatever team he goes to and has
deep level ramifications throughout the course of the NBA.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
All Right, I'm gonna put it like this, because, like
you said, we're not trying to get you know, our
top s ish with our assessment of what happened in
the first round playoffs. But the reason why I particularly
spoke about the Clippers and the Bucks in simultaneously is
because on one hand, we're gonna be asking the question
(17:41):
about whether or not Jannis just wants to be in
this environment any longer, if whether or not he feels
like his time has come playing for the Milwaukee Bucks.
That it's not to say that he doesn't love the
Milwaukee Bucks, doesn't love the fan basis, but let's just
keep it a buck right. The Milwaukee Bucks have shown
that they have literally taken a step back as far
(18:04):
as the way that that roster is constructed and what
you're extracting and getting out of it. And I think
a lot of it, too, has been the politics of
how the Milwaukee Bucks has gone through this process of
putting that roster together, putting the coaching staff together. I
think it just gets to a point when you have
a championship caliber player, a player who has basically put
an organization a culture on your shoulders, you no longer
(18:26):
can continue to keep doing this because unless something changes
at the top, or someone's taking what he's saying seriously,
valuing where he's coming from about his work ethic, his style,
his drive is not being matched with the people you're
bringing to him. That's going to send him somewhere else. Right,
So I say that to say something needs to happen
about the coaching situation, because you can't tell me that
(18:48):
the rosters you had last year with that same head
coach and they've now again been exited. And I say
this tongue in cheek to say, I appreciate, I love
and will always respect the head coach, but come on now, seriously,
And so now I take this all the way across
(19:08):
the states to the Los Angeles Clippers, and here's what
I'm saying. It's not that you get rid of Tyron Lou,
but I really think you do have to look at
what kind of players does Tyron Lou want and need
that he can get the best out of what you
saw in what he's been doing the last few years.
We've been saying this for a long time. Shaw. Sometimes
(19:30):
it's great that the organization goes out and just gets
players and just say hey, we're going to put you,
We're going to give you the best roster possible, and
then you see how that roster executes, especially in situations
like what we just saw in the first round of
the playoffs, and you have to say to yourself, is
that really the way that we want to go about
doing it. Maybe we do need to lean in on
(19:51):
how a tyrone lu coaches up his team, you know
what I'm saying. And then when you have to be
dependent on your star players, recognizing that your star players
will only get you to a certain point. It's that
other aspect of the coaching, right like how he influences
the zoo Bots, how he influences those other guys and
things of that nature. And to me, I just saw
(20:11):
where to your point, those opportunities that presented itself, where
you're playing against veteran laden teams like the Denver Nuggets,
a veteran Layden team like the Indiana Pacer who fresh
came off of getting to the Eastern Conference finals, you
just don't take those type of matchups lightly, especially when
you know that when who you're playing against arguably is
going to have mismatched situations kind of come you know,
(20:34):
come to fruition. I just found it kind of you
know interesting. You saw the contrast in the in mentalities
about how these these teams offered itself. You know. So
that was just my take from from what I saw
from that first round of the teams that disappointed me
the most.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, I can see where there's disappointment in that, and
I think for me, there's a certain level of respect
I have in losing to Joker, all right. I just think,
you know, despite their transgressions and changing coaches right before
the end of the season and all of that, Jokers
bought it in a way that we haven't really seen before.
(21:09):
And a seven game loss, although the seventh game was
pretty embarrassing, I think is less of an indictment on
Lou than it is the the opponent in which they played.
In addition to Lou having to manage this situation with
Kawhi being in and out of the line up for
the last you know, three four years and then now
finally this year, he's healthy to the latter part when
it matters most. But they ran into a team that
(21:30):
quite frankly, had more continuity and was able to, you know,
get it done with the best player in the NBA.
So I think the way they lost, while while very
disappointing and they had their chances, I'm still giving Lou specifically,
maybe a little bit more of a runway to like,
all right, well, can you ever get people to be
healthy there? And well, I think the answer to that
is no, Like we know that, we know Kawhi is
(21:52):
never going to play sixty or sixty five games in
a season again, like, that's not going to happen. He's
going to be in the thirty to forty range and
then hopefully you know he's healthy for the playoffs. The
question then comes about with hardened and that, so I
don't lose done a really good job, and I would be,
I'd be. I just wouldn't want to kind of look
at him as the reason for any of the of
the loss here as much as I think the overall
(22:15):
kind of not necessarily the roster construction, but the reliance
on the roster itself and understanding who they really are
was why what I said in the beginning in the
middle part of our year when I was like, hey,
they need the reality stone because this is not a
team that's going to be able to get it done.
But you know, I appreciate the Clippers fighting hard great.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I will say, though, sorry to interrupt you, I will say, though,
give credit to the Denver Nuggets, right because maybe this
was the exact matchup they needed to really kind of
get it right and get it all together given the
tumultuous season that they've endured the last couple of weeks.
(22:56):
Right Like, let's not forget they're not playing they're not
playing under the same head coad coach, right, and the togetherness,
the cohesiveness of that team, to me still is a
work in progress. But for a first round matchup, a
team like the Clippers could have very easily had upset
(23:19):
that could have till the end. To your point, there
were games that the Clippers should have won in that series.
I mean, essentially they probably could have been going to
the next round. I think to what I was saying,
And again I'm not trying to put it on Tyron
Lou but I do think that I think, like like
when we just finished talking about Greg Popovich, some coaches
(23:43):
have to have a turning point about the way they
go about their business, right Like, you're not handed the
same kind of Cleveland Warriors team that you got when
you won your championship, right, and you may not even
have the same type of team that you're working with
what you've had with the Clippers when you had Paul
George and Kawhi Leonard, Right. I just feel like I
would have probably loved to have seen a different version
(24:03):
of Tyron lou right, one that actually may put you know,
a guy like James Harden on ice a little bit like, yeah, man,
your numbers were great, but it troubles me that you
only took eight shots in a game seven situation and
you're arguably one of the best players that's still supposed
to be in a game. How does that happen? How
does that happen? You know what I mean? Like, I
(24:25):
want to hear coaches speak to that rather than kind
of biting the bullet, so to speak, and saying, yeah,
you know, it's just you know, just the cars it
in play, right, or you know, pointing it off on
something that clearly like it shouldn't be something that is
only being kind of articulated by the media right when
we clearly see right like, hey man, if your guys
(24:48):
checked out, your guy's not there, then you know what,
you sit them down and you put somebody in there
who's going to show what it is that like that
that you put all this effort in coaching these guys
that even get them in this place position. So again,
like I you know, I'm not again, I'm not trying
to criticize Tyron lou but I'm saying, like, at what
point do we get to see them get to that
(25:09):
turning point? You know what I'm saying, Like we've seen
Greg Popovich at a turning point, We've seen Eric Spolstra
at a turning point. And I think this is why
we say they're among the great coaches in the game
of basketball, because they don't you see where they've made
those changes, where they've implemented things differently. And I'll speak
to this again because we're talking about first round impressions.
(25:29):
This to me also brings in to question. You know,
as much as I admire and I appreciate what jab
Vickerstaff did for this Detroit Pistons team, again, you know,
to you have this opportunity where you're really helping to
show people the evolution of you as a coach, especially
after what you're seeing the Cleveland Cavaliers do. And this
was a prime situation where you had an opportunity to
(25:52):
again catapult that Detroit is like show you know that
you're even better than a better head coach than Tom
Thibodeau and you make critical mistakes down the stretch that
kind of you know, we're not talking about it because
they got eliminated, but I do think that the Pistons, again,
they could have had the opportunity to put themselves in
that position. I think it disappointed me with the way
(26:12):
that they approach things, knowing that they had that game
six in hand and they didn't make adjustments. So, you know, again,
like we're talking about all of the you know, head
coaches and things of that nature and not trying to
you know, put a stink on it, you know, sort
of sort of speak. But at the same time, I'm
just saying that, like this again was a master class
(26:33):
and recognizing, you know, the differences of what can tilt
a series. You know, if you're not making those necessary adjustments,
or you're not putting your team in the best position
possible to win, and you're working with players that again,
you know, if you know who they are and what
they are, do you continue to keep trying to ride
out on the hopes that they're going to be better
(26:53):
than what you've already expected or what you've already seen
them present to you.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, other teams that we mentioned. You know, when you
talk about the rounds, the first round fallen, I'd say
the Clippers clearly, because they literally blew two games, probably
feel like they should most likely be in the second round. Houston.
You could maybe make that argument for as well, to
a lesser degree, although they did get to a Game seven.
I feel like the Warriors took their foots off the
(27:19):
gas and that series, especially in games five and six.
But to me, the interesting thing, well, the pisses lost
in six. They're they're they're not the better team.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
They lost. Let me just say that they're not the
better team, however, But which is why was so important
that JB. Bickerstaff has his imprint, because it was going
to take that if you weren't gonna you're not getting
that herculean effort from Kate Cunningham. You know what I'm
saying this is his first year.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Is that they for for all intentive purposes, like they
got screwed in one of the games, right with I
think that was Game three where the ref missed a
call on Tim Hardaway or whatever the case may be.
So fine, right, so they blow that game or they
lose that game because of a non call, per se
you assume Hardaway goes and hits at least two out
of those three to give them the win there, and
(28:10):
then you're riding in game six. You know what, was
they up seven with two and a half minutes to
play and they end up losing that game. That's the
aspect of you know, being young. You can go back
to all the way in game one where they got
rocked out in the fourth quarter, just turned the ball over,
turn the ball over and it's like a twenty one
to ohero run. I think in the fourth quarter that took
them essentially out of that game that they were winning
in that as well too. So we want to understand
(28:32):
and respect the process because I think we both said
with Houston and Detroit, well they got to come in
here and get their lumps. They got their lumps, but
they also feel like, well, we were closer than we
probably should have been, and so those lumps are even
harder to swallow now because they could have won. They
literally could have won and been in the next round.
And I know pisses lost in six, but they were
(28:52):
competitive in these games and really could have turned things around.
So to me, it's not disheartening per se, but the Clippers,
the Pistons, and the Rockets all probably feel like they
could they should be still playing basketball right now.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, and again, I think that to me is what
has really been impressive. Like you look at the series,
you know, the way the series has ended, right you see,
you know, for two, you know, for one, for one,
whatever the case may be. I just think that the
games have been a lot more competitive then I think
(29:25):
most people you know are are are you know, looking
on the surface towards and then what I think highlights
a lot of that what we're talking about with the
first round impressions and the frustration. So I'm gonna go
back to your Los Angeles Lakers. I know we're bouncing around.
I'm gonna go back to the point of the Los
Angeles Lakers. The reason why it would not disappoint me
(29:47):
to see that the Los Angeles Lakers got eliminated is
because this isn't this, This to me is a quote
unquote coming to Jesus moment for Luka Doncic. I think
much has been talked about, you know, everybody saying that he,
you know, the worst defender in the NBA. I'm not
even going to get into all of the hyperbole, because
(30:08):
I think a little bit is too much over the top.
To me, this is not just about Luka Donkic's lack
of defense. It is Luka Donkic's lack of humility to
where he is as a star athlete, what he means
(30:29):
to the organization, and what he means to the brand
of the game. Right. So, in other words, if we
want to go old school and look at players that
you love to hate, right, how many of them complain
as much as he does to the refs? How many
of them does you know he basically say, no, matter
(30:50):
what happens, I'm not changing the style in the way
that I play my game of basketball, even when teams
are forcing you to have to do that and you
decides still not to do it. Right, In some ways,
it almost looks like you're just middle fingering every conceivable
idea that you don't want to evolve until you're ready
(31:11):
to evolve. And that's great, that's all well and good,
But I don't know how you can continue to do that.
If you're going to play next to a Lebron James,
I don't know how you can continue to do that
and think that Rob Polenka is going to be able
to put together a championship caliber roster that you're going
to be able to help elevate and create and make
better for because you're going to ultimately need somebody that's
going to augment the things that you're supposed to get
(31:32):
better at doing or evolve at doing. And I don't
know if you're willing to want to do that. And
I think that's the greatest conundrum right Like Lakers fans
are going to be cool with this. He's a great superstar,
but are they going to continue to tolerate how he
goes about being that superstar? You know what I'm saying, Like,
there was no way Magic Johnson could have continued to
be the kind of player that he was next to
(31:53):
a Kareem Abdul Jabbar. When Kareem Abdul Jabbar showed you
he was the standard, at some point, Magic Johnson had
to e And at that point when Kareem recognized that,
they learned how to play together and they went out
and win championships. You don't have the luxury like that
with the Lebron James because his window isn't like that,
you know what I'm saying. But if we want to
kind of Liken the Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar experience.
(32:15):
With what we're seeing from Aluka Donkic, this would be
the coming to Jesus moment that I think you want
to see. And I say that because that's the same
case with a lot of the players that were playing
in this first round. Like you look at the James Hardens, right,
you look at the Kawhi Leonards. These are some kind
of come to Jesus moment. Can you continue to get
away with doing what you're doing because you were making
(32:35):
a lot of money and the game is the way
it's situated. Now that you're getting knocked out of the
first round and we're good with the new generation of
talent that's there, I don't know if you have the
luxury to continue to keep operating in that same space.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah. For me, the Lakers is it's a collective loss.
And I know everything was pointed at Luca and you know,
ergo Lebron not scoring in the fourth quarters of games
and so forth. But also you forget your j Redicks
on that sidelines as a rookie year rookie head coach,
and had he made rookie mistakes, you know, think back
to Missoulu in the first year, you know, getting in
(33:09):
that job in the wake of the Udoka scandal and
just being completely obstinate, just like I have to do
it this way, and not understanding the need to adjust
and you know, really tried truly game manage. And I
think Reddick came into this situation and made some full
pause and a lot was made about, you know, the
(33:30):
the no rest in game five, sorry in game four
where he rescued, played only the five starters for the
entirety of the second half and they ran out of gas.
And you can say that's a rookie mistake, but that's
who he trusted. So then that's also then you know,
the majority of the roster, the roster construction wasn't really
what you wanted it to be. You can talk about
the about the Mark Williams thing not being there and
(33:50):
what that would have did in that specific series, But
to me, I'm just saying there's a there's a lot
of collective blame to go around with that Lakers losing
in five, And while I'm still surprise that happened, I
want to give credit to Minnesota and Anthony Edwards for
being able to get it done, and Rudy Gobert playing
the game of this absolute friggin life, you know, in
game five, you know, with the twenty twenty to send
(34:12):
the Lakers home or to keep the Lakers home, I
guess in that in that actual instance there. But this
first round has brought on a lot of nuance and
a lot of great experiences as well too. And while
we transition quickly off the Lakers, and you know, we
already talked about Miami and Memphis because we gave them
autopsy reports as well too, I did want to shout out,
not necessarily shout out, but I did want to mention,
(34:33):
you know, the Orlando magic here. They weren't where they
expected to be, right, they weren't where they expected to be,
but they were physical. I think they forced the Celtics
to play differently, and so credit to Celtics for learning
to play differently and winning in a different fashion than
they're used to. But Orlando kind of dictated that series
(34:54):
with their style, and despite you know, losing in five games,
being able to dictate the temple is something that not
a lot of teams, especially younger teams, have the ability
to do. And they they chained the playstyle of that
series by by playing hard nose and physical defense kind
of throughout it. So shadow Orlando and Jamal Moseley and
what that was. What a truly t multual season for
(35:15):
them to Riddled with injuries, they have a lot of
work to do, but hopefully they will get some guys back,
you know, and see if they will be above that
playing line going.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Into next year. Yeah, and listen, we'll have our opportunity
to autops the Orlando Magic. But as I was just mentioning,
you know to you before, gritty performance, absolutely gritty performance
by the Orlando Magic. And I think the one thing
too is you know, when you play, when you play
the defending champs, right, you could probably hang your hat
(35:44):
on the fact that, you know, yeah, we kept the
games close, We should have probably won a couple of
those games, whatever the case may be. That's fine. But
when you play against the team and you realize that
that team is taking you seriously, right, and you frustrated them,
you you basically force them to have to you know
that you've you're playing the best of the best, because
they're gonna go out and they're going to do it.
(36:06):
They're not gonna they're not going to continue to complain
throughout the course of the series. I gonna wait until
you know it's an elimination game or anything like that.
And I think if you're to Orlando Magic, you have
to look at what was your weakness, what was your
what was what was it that kept you from finding
that next gear or getting over the top. You know
what I'm saying, And it's the ability to get clean looks,
(36:29):
you know, shooting the basketball and shooting basketball with the
level of consistency and efficiency. Like, if you're gonna play
that style of basketball, if you're gonna play that way
where you're limiting possessions, you have got to make the
shots that you have access to, right And when you're
playing against a good team like the like the Boston
Celtics in that they have the ability to rebound, that
(36:50):
means they're going to minimize your opportunities to get those shots.
And I think to me, again, if people were paying
attention to this and not looking at just what the
series total was, you know, winning four to two or
you know, losing for one or whatever the case may be,
you were seeing a lot of competitive play there. And
(37:10):
you're also looking at it and saying, is this team capable,
if fully healthy, replicating what they showed you that they
were capable of doing in this season's playoffs. And I
can definitely tell you that there are a couple of
teams that I feel a lot more confident that when
they get their roster together, they'll head the executives actually
start making the necessary moves to improve. You know, they
(37:32):
don't have to go crazy, but they definitely have to
improve on some of those elements, and some of those
things I can see in confidence that if they get
into the playoffs again next year, who knows, the matchup
might favor them a whole lot better and a whole
lot more than what with the outcome was for them
in this year's playoffs.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
So well, why don't we close or pseudo clothes on this?
And it's not necessarily who you got? Because I have
all kinds of things racing in my head right now,
right because I think we've done all who you Got
before with Paulo. But I'm intrigued, you know, with the
with the who you got? Of of the young teams
that were eliminated in this first round, who would you
(38:09):
most likely rather be? And some of that is going
to take into context what conferences are in because the
West is clearly deeper than the Eustern conference.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
But would you.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Rather be the Young Pistons, the Young Magic, the Young Rockets,
or uh the Yeah that's it right, yeah, yeah, so yeah,
the Rockets, the Pistons, or or the the Magic. Sorry,
I'm getting all the tongue tied here, Rockets.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Of those would you prefer to be? I would prefer
to be the Magic. I know, I've been a staunch
Pistons advocate, and I love Kate Canningham. I'd solely just
drop on Kate if I could. But if you're tasking
(38:56):
me to say which team am I going to ride with,
that can probably have them, like, can do the most
damage in the next couple of years, that combination of
Wagner and bon Caro. And let me tell you something,
bon Caro was so impressive in the series against the
Boston Celtics. I mean he was he was basically war
machine literally like he was. He had he was in
(39:19):
his bag against a very good Boston Celtics defense. And
I don't care what anybody wants to try to convince
me to tell me otherwise. Bon Caro to me, was
the MVP of the first round of the playoffs in
that he knew that he was basically up against it,
like you know Wagner. You know, there's undone the level
of Wagner. I don't know how great he can become,
(39:39):
but the level of that I saw from bon Caro,
you know, especially after what happened to him last year,
you know, and how his you know, he got exited,
you could clearly tell that he grew from that experience.
And I would say this, man, if he didn't suffer
the injury that he suffered in the beginning of the
regular season, who knows how prime he would have been,
(40:04):
like his numbers and everything like that going into this series.
That could probably have even more impact on the influence
that you would have had in the outcome of that series. Again,
Bonkara just just totally impressed me. He's a scary dude. Bro,
scary dude.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I like that. I mean, I think you're saying that
with your just for sure. The notion of Detroit being
as kind of just coming from the dol drums is
like such a nice story that it's kind of hard
to not like latch on to the excitement and the
promise of that what JB was able to build, and
I think when you're talking about the franchise player, it stops,
(40:39):
not stops, but you like maybe the ceilings upon Karen
Kaid maybe a little bit more. But a man is
somebody who people are literally drooling over on Houston and Washington.
Goon is there and he's obviously a really good basketball
player too. People are like, yo, what a man could
potentially potentially turn out to They feel like there's not
a ceiling that we can see just yet, which I
(41:00):
think is really interesting. But the Rockets to me, have
the best collection of talent and are probably the best
coached currently. And that's not to say yes because they
were the two suits in the Western Conference. I just
really feel like they have guys in a reserve that
they didn't even go to like Cam Wentmore just like
fell out of the rotation. Rich Shepperd couldn't make the
rotation either. Like these are players that I think other
(41:20):
teams would love to have on their potfobial rosters. So
if I was building, you gave me a chance to
go with wish it for a team, I think Houston,
especially with their draft capital, would be the team that
I would go with in addition to the collection of
talent that they currently have, inclusive of guys who are
not even really playing, because those guys can probably get
me another star if I wanted to. But I think
this is a really interesting conversation. Both these three young
(41:42):
teams have higher ceilings than they showed this year, and
I can't wait to see when they actualize that potential.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what the Detroit
Pistons try. And do you know, to your point, we
could have easily probably picked up on the Pistons. I'm
a little lary of can you give me the same
thing that you gave me with Malik Beasily sick at
two years in a row. And you know, even if
you have a like I still I still think that
there's much more room And to your point, like that's
(42:10):
one of the reason why I was hedging my bets
a little bit about the Magic because I haven't seen, like,
you know, Jalen Suggs he suffered his injury, Does he
take a step forward? You know? And what will see
version of him will come into that season because I
really do think that they want him to be the
point guard you know, for that for that magic team.
So it'll be interesting to see, you know, what other
(42:31):
guys take that next step. But yeah, man, all three
of these teams so impressive, at least from my perspective
of what they They showed us what the potential could
be for them. And I do think to your point Shaw,
if there's a team that people really need to pay
attention to, that that two seed by the Houston Rockets,
I don't think is a fluke. I do think that
(42:53):
if they get you know, one or two other players
to kind of round out, maybe Adokah shifts a little
bit about how that ball movement goes and flows through
sengoon and where a'm and Thompson can take that next
step and commanding you know, more ball, more ball handling
responsibilities or maybe even more scoring opportunities responsibilities. Yeah. Absolutely, man.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Well, I definitely have the autops in the Rockets because
I'd love to get some thoughts here on the Jelling
Green experience and all that, but we'll save that for
when we can have on the surgery the surgeon gloves
and we have the scalpels out, because a lot more
to unpack.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
There with all of these teams. I know, man, I
had you know, I brought I brought my traveling you
know what I'm saying, My CSI kit dropped. I brought
it with me. But uh yeah, we had to pivot.
That's okay, though, That's that's okay. We'll be we'll be
ready to uh you know I'm saying dissect and you
know what I'm saying on the next go around. Yes, sir, Hey,
(43:49):
this has been a great, great episode and as always, man,
we appreciate everybody for hopping on board with us this
week for the baseline Cali warren Shaw. We appreciate you guys,
you know we do, and we will catch up with
you next stop.
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