Your NBA Top 5 May be Wrong...But Josh Rodriguez joins us to Fix That!

This week on The Baseline, hosts Cal Lee and Warren Shaw chop it up with special guest Josh Rodriguez of The Dime, a two-time Sports Podcast Aard nominee, as they discuss the top NBA teams as the 2024-25 regular season comes to a close.

We debate whether the Oklahoma City Thunder are the team to beat in the Western Conference, as well as the Denver Nuggets, Memphis Grizzlies, and Boston Celtics. We also discuss the New York Knicks, Cleveland Cavaliers, and Houston Rockets. Finally, they discuss the fallout of Victor Wembanyama's injury and whether the San Antonio Spurs should tank for Cooper Flagg. All of this and more on this week's episode of The Baseline!

Follow Josh Rodriguez on X: https://x.com/Josh_Rodriguez
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the base line discussing the hot button topics
of the NBA. Welcome everybody, you're tuned to the baseline
Cali Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA.
Another jam packed episode ready to be lined up for
your listening pleasure. As always, man, we like to keep
the hits coming, especially as we're coming down to the

(00:23):
final stretch run of games of the regular NBA season.
And it's about that time as well too, for us
to really start honing in on who is ultimately making
those ghosts and Tommy power moves, those Canaan power.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Moves in the NBA.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Who are the best of the best right now? To
Kremlinal Klem, who are those other teams shooting? To you know,
uh surpass to be at the top of the pile
when it's all said and done. So we cannot wait
to have that kind of conversation. And we do have
a guest who's gonna help us lay it all out.
As always, let me go ahead and roll out the
red carpet to my right hand man Www. Dot Show
sportsat Net, BIGCN, the PNC, My man, mister warrensh Yaw

(01:00):
repping out of Fort Floridaville, Florida. What's good, mister Shaw.
I know it is a nice weekend, as is always
down there in South Florida. We finally got sunshine up
here in the northern eastern part of the country, so
finally we might actually get a glimpse of what spring
may look like.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
It's you know what I'm saying, It's been a been touch.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
And go, a little bit touch and go.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
I love that, kind of like the Knicks.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
The Knicks have been touch and go, you know, saying.

Speaker 5 (01:31):
Well, I love that for you. You know, as I say,
hope springs eternal, so hopefully you will continue to get
some better weather, better weather in the New York and
New Jersey areas. Uh yeah, it's lovely down here. I'm
actually headed to a little food festival and you know,
after a recorder today, so we're pretty excited about that.
But I always love how you bring in pop culture references, brother,
you know what I mean, the power thing we got.

(01:51):
We got Raising Cane coming back in a couple of
weeks as well, too, so Bastin always on the cutting
edge stuff a pop culture brother.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thanks to you, absolutely man.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
You know, and listen they say in order for us
to pop out, we got to pop off. So you know,
yeah exactly. You know, I'm in my I'm in my
Kendrick Fields right about now.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
I just I just don't have that that that big
chain that you know what I'm saying, with the with
the A. Could you imagine if I had a chain
like that with the big C right there, you know
what I'm saying, and you would see the W would
be fly for you, bro, you.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Know what I'm saying. It would have a Wu feel
to it. You know what I'm saying, like, yes, you
would be an honorary member of the Klan.

Speaker 5 (02:33):
You know, I would love to be an honor Remember
I think we at one point we joked about what
our Wu Tang names would be. I can't remember what
I came up with at the time, but we should
kind of go back to that. Anyway, That's a conversation
for another time. And we need to get Tyler and
jabbari in and Dezen for the We Love Music series
and you know we we got to get a hip
hop going this ball to you as always Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, man, absolutely, But in the meantime to kind of
wet the appetite a little bit. Since you're going down
to do your food festival to whet the appetite a
little bit, We're going to dish out flavors of what
we think the NBA. Yeah, who we think the NBA's
Krem de la krim is gonna be. And we have
our special guests, Josh Rodriguez. He is a two time

(03:11):
Sports Podcast Award nominee. His podcast The Dime with with
Josh and Kowab has been nominated twice by the Sports
Podcast Podcasters Ward and he was gracious enough to be
able to jump on board with us this week so
we can have that real good discussion about who the
top five NBA teams right now are the Power five.

(03:34):
We'll also dig in a little bit to the fallout
with the situation with Wimby and him not returning for
the remainder of the regular season and what that might
mean not just for the Spurs, but just for the
NBA in general. So we can't wait to get our
man Josh on board to have those conversations. As always,
we encourage everybody to tap in with us. My man
Ashaw Sports NBA. You can get at me at Gay

(03:56):
Face Leader Show. Swernanda NBA Baseline. Remember, if you catch
on the blue and white logo, you know that we
rocks with the nineteen Media Group family. So if you
see us on the YouTube channel you see that blue
and white logo, that's who you know. We ride with
the nineteen Media Group family. Be rolling with these be
running these content streets. So you can always check us
and the great family of content creators on www dot

(04:17):
nineteen Media Group dot com. And as always, if you
want to catch not just this episode, but all the
episodes at the Baseline archives has for your listening pleasure
for your ears. Whenever you want to, you can always
check us out at www dot Thebaseline, NBA dot com.
So coming up, we got our man, Josh is gonna
hop on board for us so we can get into

(04:37):
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Prize picks run your game coming up. Josh Rodriguez joins

(06:28):
us as we talk basketball, NBA and power rankings.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Don't go Anywhere. Time now for the breakdown.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Cali Warrenshaw Baseline NBA podcast and joining us this week. Man,
we're excited to have our man on board. We we
as so far as in the podcasting community and in
the brotherhood. We always watch our peers from AFAR, but
we also admire the work that they do and it's

(07:07):
always great wh when there was opportunity for collaborations to
take place, and we're just really excited to.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Have our man.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
He's a two time nominated sports podcast war Group nominee,
a co host of The Dime with Josh and kowab
our Man Josh Rodriguez is joining us this week.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
What's good, My brother.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
What's good? Fellows, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Fellow nominees as well, so shout out to us, but
thanks for.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
Having me on.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
You and what you guys going on at nineteen is awesome,
So big respects all that good stuff. I'm excited to
be on. And you guys have to come on to
you by the way, Oh absolutely, I got to return
the favor and I have to have you on. So yeah,
let's let's make this happen.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Absolutely, man, It's it's just great when we're able. You know,
we all speak basketball, but what makes what makes it
uniques is where it's coming from. And you guys do
a really great job of breaking down a lot more
of the nuances of things that you know, other basketball
podcasts don't get the opportunity to do, even ourselves, and
I think that's what enriches people's appreciation for why the

(08:09):
game is again one of the more widely popular games
that's out there, not just on the local level, but
just even globally. Man, So much respect to you. And
kuad for continuing to do that. And that's the reason
why we got you on here because we want to
definitely get your perspective on a couple of interesting things
that have been taking place so far in the NBA. Well,
one big thing that's really I felt like it was

(08:30):
going to have an impact on where the conversation should
go when we talk about where the NBA is is
regarding the fallout with Victor Woman Yama being out for
the remainder of the season due to a serious medical condition,
basically a blood clot in the soldier. The San Antonio
Spurs have decided to shut him down, and I know
that an episode or so ago, Sean and I we had,

(08:52):
you know, a roundtable conversation about teams that you know
we should be watching for on part two of this
regular NBA season, and obviously the San Antonio Spurs came
up because they are somewhat within striking distance for that
play in spot. But I just wanted to get your
perspective on it because I want to look at it
more holistically. There's been so much weight put on Victor
Women Yama's shoulders as far as being the international face

(09:16):
of the NBA. The future of the NBA and what
he brings to the table. Is this legitimately of that
big of a hit that the NBA is gonna take.
Not having Wemby in the picture or about the Spurs
being in the pictures sort of speak or are.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
We gonna be fine?

Speaker 1 (09:33):
I mean, with what we still have remaining on the table,
with what to play for, are we gonna be okay?

Speaker 4 (09:39):
We'll be okay.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
I mean, as long as this is not a career
threatening injury, we're gonna be fine. I mean, the truth
of the matter is Wenby is a superstar, especially internationally.
But the Spurs they're like ten games below five hundred.
You know, no one really produced them to make a
run to the playoffs or make any noise in the playoffs.
I never heard anyone say it, got to watch the
Spurs game the night, Like, I don't think Wemby's at
that point yet. I think you have a lot of

(10:00):
basketball fans and people with basketball peurists who love the
game who appreciate Wenby's game and will watch the Spurs
to watch Wenby, and now that they got Darren Fox,
you kind of want to see how that plays out.
But in the grand scheme of things for this year particularly,
I don't think it's a big deal at all. Now,
if you know there's more issues there and you know
that blood clot can be career threatening and we don't

(10:20):
know what that looks like going forward, then yeah, I
think that's absolutely devastating.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
But for the short term, I don't think it's it's
that big of a deal.

Speaker 5 (10:27):
If I'm being honest, Josh, I want to tap into
and also give you some more flowers because I know
you're you're a producer.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
As well too.

Speaker 5 (10:33):
We're going volu men doing some amazing things with that too,
So shouts to you and all the basketball ethos, all
the content you've created, you know, to our community. But
also swinging back to the to the Spurs conversation. So
we on this podcast were very pro get wenby help. Now,
do you feel like if if they would have known

(10:54):
this was an injury like this this was going to
take place, do you think they would have made the
Fox move before the trade.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Deadline or where they would have maybe waited till after
the summers that it just didn't make a difference one
way or the other.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
I think you get Fox. I think you get the
talent when you can get the talent. I think Dearon
Fox is a great match with Wimby, and if you
have an opportunity to go get him, you go get him. Period.
I mean, he was just prumpled in Sacramento. There was
words saying that he wanted out immediately, So you go
get him. I don't think, especially if you think he's
gonna be the long term, right Like, if you think
Daron Fox is going to be there long term, he's

(11:23):
going to sign an extension with you, then why not
go get him? Why take the chance on another team
going to get him them making a playoff run and
then he falls in love the city and now you're
looking for another point guard. Right If he's going to
be there for a long term, doesn't matter, Go get him.
Let him get familiar with the coaching stack, with the
other players as well, maybe have some poorth castle. You
know he's gonna be somebody he's in the future. You're
coming up in the future with the Spurs. So I

(11:45):
think he they did the right thing, no matter what.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
You know, the status was a.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Win me well, so I do find it an intriguing
move Josh about the fact that they went after dearon
Fox because I think they believe that that combination of
Fox and Wemby could be a force. Right, I'm more
so concerned, So like, where does d Aaron Fox fall

(12:09):
when we talk about the point guard position? Is he
a point guard or is he to be a two guard?
And then now I think what adds a little bit
more spice, like to throw it in a little bit
more zouch to the conversation, is the emergence of Stefan Castle, Right, Like,
you know, I feel like there's a lot of shot taking,
but will there be enough shot creating and how long

(12:31):
can you do that with Chris Paul as your point guard,
whether he stays past the regular season or not. That
was one of my concerns about Daron Fox when he
played with the Sacramento Kings because I think ultimately for
his growth, he wanted to be more aggressive, but his
combination with him and Demonta Sabonis, I think stymy that somewhat.

(12:52):
So I'm not saying that he can't get along with Biggs.
I'm just saying there's a fine line that kind of
comes to this, and I'm wondering will Victor Wimbinyama be
the code that cracks that for Daron Fox or should
he naturally be a two guard.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
No, I think I think the Aaron can run point.
You know, you can run pick and roll with Wnby,
you can run pick and pop with Wiman. There's a
lot of things you can do with Wimby. And the
same could be said about Sabonis too. It's not like
Sibonis was one dimensional. But I do think, you know,
it depends on like who's next to you and the
chemistry there. And I do think going forward, he's gonna
know it's Wemby's team and Sacramento it was Daron Fox's team,

(13:27):
like that was his team. He was number one option.
He was to go do guy. And I think when
you come to the Spurs and you have someone like Wenby,
you know that the ball is going to go to
him and things are going to run through him, and
you have to change up your game. If the Aaron
wants to play make, he can play make if we
see him and do it before. I just think it's
a matter of his role on the squad, and I
think his role changes in San Antonio. So I have

(13:47):
a lot of confidence d Aaron Fox. I think the
pick and roll would be perfect get him downhill hill
out in transition, I think he's going to thrive. I
do think it's a good thing. I think he can
play point and actually distribute the basketball.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
Yeah, I don't. I don't disagree with that.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
And I think as we're taking it back to Wemby,
I mean and even the Spurs themselves, that's it's been.
There was some high notes of this season. Now this
is clearly a lower note. And then I think Sham's
comes out reports that Pop is probably not gonna be back,
you know, this season as well.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
Too, after after suffering the stroke.

Speaker 5 (14:16):
Your thoughts on that impact on Wemby's overall trajectory. So
the injury is one thing, right, and now they've had
to get used to you know what kind of the
secondary coach Pop into that space? You know, But if
Pop isn't back, do you think that impacts the way
Wemby's able to develop as he comes back from this
blood clot.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
I mean Pop's one of the best coaches of all time, right,
So if you don't have one of the best coaches
of all time, that's gonna that's gonna impact you somehow.
But I do think he's had a good year with
the interim coach. I do think that he's grown this year.
He's getting better, And honestly, it's one of those things too,
Like you hear people talk about Phil Jackson and Eric
spoulstro and all these great great coaches, but they need
a great players too. Pop need a great players, you know,

(14:54):
I don't know if we're sitting here talk about pop
if you have Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and many ginobili.
And it's not to say he's not a great coach,
but you need the players. And from what I've seen
from when you this year, he's developed, his game has grown.
I'm not worried about it at all. I think his
talent's too good to be held back.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
And I think the.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
Spurs are going to be fine no matter whose coaches,
as long as it's a comedy coach. Obviously, it's interesting.
It's interesting what you.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Just alluded to, Josh, because it's not so much that
it's a concern to me, but it's something that I
want to keep my eye on because to your point,
Greg Popovich is among one of the you know, is
arguably the goat right you can make you know, have
arguments about that.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
But one of the things I've often.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Appreciated about Greg Popovich, which I didn't see in his
first iteration when he had David Robinson and Tim Duncan,
but it was post David Robinson, was that he realized
that he had to evolve and he had to do
it basically two iterations, which allowed the Spurs to basically
be a dynasty for almost twenty years. Literally right, he
evolved and in the way that he implemented and how

(15:56):
he utilizes veterans and how he brought along Kawhi Leonard
and everybody like that, maybe people thought he was crazy
for doing it, but now we're beginning to understand the
method to his madness. The thing that I think that
gets me in the in the part that Warren was
alluding to, is part of what Popovich was able to
get the veteran guys to do is to buy into

(16:17):
doing something that they may not have been comfortable doing
for the greater good of elite level basketball play. And
I wonder, with the dominance that's already come into play
with Victor when Benyama, does that buy in come from
a Mitch Johnson or will it really be leaned on
by what Greg Popovich says in his not and his

(16:38):
unavailability can impact that that that mindset that meant to
because now it's more about when Ben Yama figuring out
on his own, if it's not coming from Mitch Johnson.
I just wanted to get your perspective from that if
I'm often thinking that in that regard.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Now, I think it's a great counterpoint. I think it's
a fantastic counterpoint, right like it it's gonna hit different
coming from Mitch than it is come from Greg Popovitch.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Period.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
If Greg Popovich asks you to sacrifice, you're going to sacrifice, period.
I think I think that's a great counterpoint.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
That I think part of it is because I haven't
heard much about Mitch Johnson. I know he's been a
part of the staff, but a lot of the staff
that Popovich has had over the last five years leading
into have all gone off to do different things. Like
Becky Hammond is no longer there, and she's the kind
of person that I think helped bridge the gap in
where that developmental stage is, where the IQ level of

(17:26):
how the game needs to be played. I'm just wondering
that is there enough voices that are going to be
available there when the time comes that everybody is now
back on board fully healthy. We're hitting the reset button
for twenty twenty five, twenty six, and we need to
see this version of wembn Yamanda, because you're already hearing
the conversations about Wemby.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
He's taking too many threes.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
It doesn't look like he's like establishing himself down in
the paint and the post or whatever the case may be.
And you're saying to yourself, would Popovich be up in
his ear saying something to him like that, you know
what I'm saying? Or is that Wemby now gonna figure
that part of it out?

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, I think that's a concern. I think that's, you know,
a valid counterpoint. Again, like I don't know what type
of coach Mitch is yet. I don't think we know,
but I do know they've responded well to him, like
he took over the head coaching position and they started
playing well, like they were not playing well until he
took over.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Really they played better with Mitch.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
And I'm not saying that's an indictment on Popovich, but
I do think it actually shows that, like there's a
culture there in San Antonio where they do respect the
coaching staff, and they do listen to the coaching staff.
And you know, I don't know much about the relationship
that Wemby and Mitch has. Maybe they formed their own
relationship where like how Tim grew up with Greg, well,
maybe now Wemby grows up with Midge. I don't know

(18:37):
the answer to that, but I do know that there
is a culture there in San Antonio that Greg has
built that even if his presence is not in the building,
I do think it does seep through and the players
and the coaching staff do form around that culture.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
I am confident in that.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
I don't think the franchise just kind of like flips
on its head and then all of a sudden it's
like chaos. I do think that they will keep that culture.
Maybe Mitch is not Greg Popovich, but you know the
idea of San Antonio spurs basketball and you know, having
respect for your coach and doing things the right way
stays intact.

Speaker 5 (19:09):
Josh, my last one for this and something I've been
wrestling with since the news broke uh, because I agree
with you what you said earlier. I think you get
Fox because you want to start to build. You want
to have him into the system exactly what you're.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
Just talking about. What does the Spurs system like?

Speaker 5 (19:22):
How does he learn the offensive rotation, the defensive rotation
and schemes of this. But one by not being there
means like their season is told. It's a rap it's
rap city, It's done. Yeah, So do you throttle down?
If you're the general manager of this team, do you
throttle down? Chris Paul Harrison Barnes, you start getting some
random rest days, you might be doing some more weirdness
with sohand at point guard or center or stuff like

(19:43):
that as well too, because you could tank out. There's
a possibility you could end up in the Cooper flags sakes.
It's a it's a long shot. But is that something
that you would do now, you know, as a Spurs
as their season is obviously.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Lost without when being in the lineup.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yeah, I don't think I necessarily, but I do think
you play around with lineups, especially with lineups you think
are gonna be a part of your future. You know,
Shahan to sell stuff on Castle dearon Fox. You know,
run different sets, run different lineups out there. See who
Daron works well with, See who he doesn't work well
with see what lineups work.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
I think you do things like that.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
I don't think it's a lost season, but I do
think having someone out there like Harrison Barnes like doesn't
do you any good, right. I think Chris Paul does
you good because he can organize things on the court.
You can learn from him by just playing the game
with him. So I don't think that's necessarily bad, but
I do think they should take a direction of, you know,
testing out lineups and seeing who works well with who your.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Tune to the Baseline Calie Warrenshaw and our special guests
Josh Rodriguez of The Dime With Josh and Quab coming up.
We are getting into our Power five rankings. It's only
fitting right. One of us has gotta be Ghosts, one
of us has gotta be Tommy. The other one's gotta
be Canaan. By the way, the top five is going
to be live, is gonna be lits. Do not want

(21:00):
to miss out on this more Baseline Cali Warrenshaw, Don't
go anywhere. We are back, Cali Warrenshaw, Baseline, NBA Podcasts
and our special guests Josh Rodriguez of The Dime two

(21:24):
Time nominated Sports Podcast Best Basketball Podcast Award nominee The
Dime with Josh and KWAB. So let's get right into it, man,
let's do the Power five. I'm sorry, I'm gonna say
this on on on as we're recording.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Shaw. My apologies.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
I did not mean to make it sound like the
only people that we should be talking about are the
people that died. I just figured they were the main characters, right,
Not only they're the.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Ones who.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
Would you would you prefer?

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Would you have preferred with the would you prefer?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
If I go with the wire, I'm sure that there's
at least a couple of people that were still in
the game still alive. I'm not gonna call you string
but yeah, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna call you
a stringer, right, Okay, right either. Anyway, let's get right
into it. Josh, hit us off with your Power five ranking.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
All right, So my Power five in at number five.
I do have the New York Knicks, and it's not
because I think the Knicks are that good. I just
don't believe in the Rockets. I don't believe in the Grizzlies.
I don't believe right now to be determined with the Lakers,
even though they did beat the Nuggets last night very impressively.
It's it's more on just like a process of elimination.
I don't think they got there. Yeah, I'm a Nick fan.

(22:41):
I love the Knicks. They're fugazy, they are for gezy.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
This year they are going nowhere.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
The Knicks are ow and six, about to be owen
seven against the top three teams in the league. They're
playing the Celtics right now and they're down a million,
and they're just not They're not contenders whatsoever. It's just
that I feel like this type of year, there aren't
really too many contenders and therefore they just by process
the elimination come at number five.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Well, I mean, but you don't believe in the idea
that you know, you lose enough times, you may have
actually figured out the da Vinci code when it matters
the most.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
I think when you watch more movies like that, my friend, Yeah,
when you play the Boston Celtics three times and they
run you off the floor, that team.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Is better than you. You're not being that team four times.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
It's not happening, right.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah, I got the Nixon.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Number five all right.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Number four, Number four, I got the Denver Nuggets. I
know they lost to the Lakers last night. I think
the Lakers particularly are a bad matchup for them. I
don't think just looking ahead, they might have problems and
issues guarding the Lakers specifically. But I do think they're
the second best team overall in the Western Conference. I
do they think they need to tighten up on the
defensive end, but Yoki is still the best player in

(23:47):
the world to me, in my opinion, They've been really
hot as of late. Even though they did lose last night,
did be playing really good basketball, and they're the one
team that I think can be a dark horse to
win the NBA Championship.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
All right, legit any any uh any feedback? Shaw?

Speaker 4 (24:01):
No, No, we want to keep rocking.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
I want to hear I want to hear it.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
They I'm gonna jump.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
In after that, all right?

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Number three, Josh, Number three, I do have the calves.
They did go through a little bit of a valley.
There's peaks and valleys in the season. They kind of
just came out of theirs. I think they're for real.
I do think they can beat the Boston Celtics in
a seven game series. I do think they can win
the NBA Championship. They're one of three teams that I
do think can win the NBA Championship. Evan Mobley's ascension
this year is real. Kenny Atkinson and how he's working

(24:30):
that offense, a lot of pick and rolls and actions
off of the pick and roll. They're running more. They
used to be one of the slowest paced teams in
the league and I don't know why, and now they've
picked up the pace. They have a fantastic bench, they
play good defense. The calves are for real there, for real.
They were number one in our power rankings for a
while until they kind of slipped a little bit. But
I'm comfortable putting.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Them at number three. All right, how do you have
as number two?

Speaker 5 (24:54):
Two?

Speaker 3 (24:54):
I have the Boston Celtics for now. They've been playing
really well, but I just think that might have at
number one. It's just been outrageous, So I'll have them
at number two. I think they're the best team in
the East. I think when push comes to shove and
you have everybody out there who's healthy, for the Boston Celtics,
I just think they're just too much to handle it.
They they out Matthew. With the three, they have players

(25:15):
who can go one on one and go at you.
Peyton Pritchard is probably going to be six Man of
the Year. And I just think, you know, their champs
for a reason. I just think, you know, maybe during
the season you're kind of taking a couple of games
off and just the regular season doesn't matter anymore.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
All right, So I don't know, should we be surprised
on who.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Your number one is? I don't know.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
It's okay, see, and a lot of it is. Most
of it is because defensively they can just turn up
point of attack. Defense on the perimeter is some of
the best I've ever seen in my life personally, whenever
they want to turn it on and they can switch
to zone. I just think defensively, when you're that good defensively,
you have room for error on the offensive end, and

(25:55):
even though you know you have SGA, I think sometimes
they are prone to some cold spells. But when you're
that good defensively and you can turn it up and
you can shut out a team for like half of
a quarter like they did against the Heat and went
on a twenty something out run, you're you're really freaking good.
So I like the Thunder come playoff time. I don't
know what that's gonna look like, but right now, to me,
they're the best team in the league. All right, Top five,

(26:17):
it's a nice list.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
I think.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
I think you can stay alive with that list, Josh.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
I think I don't think you're gonna get capped at
the end of this this episode when it's all said done,
hope not.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Okay, all right, seaw hit us off with your top five.
So I won't go.

Speaker 5 (26:33):
Into too much explanation, so we can, you know, get
into the overall conversation. But just for the sension purposes,
I'm gonna go against Josh with the Knicks here in five,
and I would have put them there, but I'm gonna
go with Memphis only for this for the sake of it,
I think the Grizzlies have more to give. Jow is
not having an amazing season, and I don't know if
he's kind of saving himself for what will be an
eventual playoff.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
Run here too.

Speaker 5 (26:54):
But the Grizzlies are extremely deeper than I thought they
were going to be this year, So I'm gonna give
them a slow edge because they're a little bit deeper.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Than obviously the New York New York next team.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
From here on, Els, I'm more or less in line
with what Josh has to say. I got the I
got the Nuggets at four, I got the Celtics actually
at three, I got the Calves at two, and I got.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
The Thunder at one.

Speaker 5 (27:14):
Uh And I'll get into some of those conversations a
little bit, especially, you know, with my beloved Celtics, where
I'm just a little concerned with the Calves additions and
what they were able to do. Not so much about
the you know, the Davonte Green situation, but the DeAndre Hunter.
I don't I don't like that. I don't like that
if I'm a Celtics fan. Uh So, the Calves really
really are are starting to put a little bit of stink,

(27:36):
you know, and and and and the little fear of
me if I'm a boss a Celtics fan.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
So that's my power five. See how what you got?

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Brother? All Right?

Speaker 1 (27:41):
So my power five goes the way of maybe I'm
the one who's gonna get capped by the end of
this conversation. But the way I have this setup is
I have the Memphis Grizzlies in at number five, uh much.
To everybody's point and to your point, Shaw, I just
feel like there's that jab Morant factor that I just

(28:02):
think plays so heavily on where this team can possibly
go to. But the fact that they're just this deep
with a marginally good job Morant, it spells trouble. I
went a little bit different here. My number four team
I have is the Houston Rockets. I look, I understand
that this team has its highs and lows, but I'm

(28:24):
thinking and and I stood on this because I spoke
about how I think this team's gonna wind up being
the two seed in the Western Conference by the end
of this season, over the Grizzlies and over the Denver Nuggets.
I just think that the Rockets. Man, there's just something
about this team. I can't put my finger on it,
but everything just points to the ideas that you just

(28:45):
do not want to mess with this team this time around.
They I don't think that they blow the opportunity to
chance if they see themselves being a higher seed. So
I have to put them in there in that conversation.
And then the Calves I have as number three. I
have the Celtics as number two. Umber one I have
as the Oklahoma City Thunder. It's kind of interesting what
you guys are saying, and Josh, I'll have you weigh
in on this part of it, because the reason why

(29:09):
I have the Boston Celtics is I still see the
Boston Celtics collectively being one of the better versatile defensive
teams that are out there now. At times they don't
play like it, but I don't necessarily worry about when
they're not playing like it, when you don't have the
personnel to play like it. When they're just not playing

(29:30):
like it, they don't look like a great team, and
then they can be had. But when they do have
the personnel and we're only questioning that they just didn't
do it tonight and we're now talking about this happening
over a seven game series, it's a little bit more
of why I was on the fence between saying should
the casm number two or should the Celtics be number two?
And that, to me, I think is where it becomes

(29:52):
very intriguing. Right now, Oklahoma City is in a class
by itself, but I was wondering where your perspective is
on that. When we talk about that two three seed
of our power rankings respectively between all of us. Is
it that we should worry more about the Celtics not
dominantly being that solid two and it can easily fall

(30:12):
down to any of those other teams below them, or
that we should be confident and be more confident about
the Celtics and what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yeah, it's great. I go back and forth about both.
You know, there's days where I'm like, it's the Celtics,
They're gonna be fine. I'm not worried about them whatsoever.
Like today, when they're beating the crap out of the Knicks,
They're fine, and there's something. But then there's times like
I watched the Cleveland Cavaliers play and I'm like, this
team is good and it has nothing to do with
what I think about Boston, has everything to do with
how I feel about Cleveland. Cleveland is really freaking good,

(30:41):
and emails Celtics are really good. Cleveland can beat them.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Now.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
The Celtics are two and one against the Caves.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
But I do think that in a seven game series,
I do think it's a toss up.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
I think Cleveland can win that series.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
I just trust Boston more because I've seen Boston do
it right, and that's been the knock on the caves
where it's like this team has been together. We see
them in the playoffs, and even though like Atkinson has
brought in a new system and they're deeper and mobi's better,
we still haven't seen it from the Calves and I
think that we could.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
But we could be doing the same thing about the
Oklahoma City Thunder exactly. But it's just that the level
of dominance, the way that the Oklahoma City Thunder team
is exhibited. And I'll also chalk it up to this
and Sew you can weigh in on this part of it.
When I saw the Oklahoma City Thunder take that l
against the Cleveland cay the Cleveland Cavaliers in their first
matchup at Cleveland, and then they had the return match

(31:31):
up back at Okasee and Oka see layeth the smacketh
down on the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
It brought me back to earth.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
More about the Cleveland Cavaliers more so than me speaking
about the Oklahoma City Thunder and what I needed to
worry about regarding the Bossons Celtics. It's that to me
is now I'm looking at all right, So the bus
and Celtics play to Oklahoma City Thunders, the Oklahoma City
Thunder trample, trounce dominate or will we see more of
that matchup that I think we're all hoping.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
To see for all of those teams.

Speaker 5 (32:04):
Yeah, well, interesting assessment, I think because I'm with you
with Okay, see second matchup against Cleveland. I took more
from that than the first one, where it was relatively
closed and then Cleveland kind of pulled away, but when
they just had no regard for human life, you know,
against him the second time, I was like, yeah, this
is a team that you should be very very fearful
love despite what I guys, I know when Horse and

(32:24):
guys I got Terre say nobody fears. Okay, see, well
that's your bad, right, because I think this is a
team that can truly lock you down and give you
a nightmare, as we saw when the Celtics played them,
especially in that second half you know in the season,
they just shut them down. And then okay, see beat
up on the Knicks twice, and it's just I.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Just as the team. Sorry, Josh, this is just.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
We really did not bring it. We really did not
bring you on this show to trample the Knicks.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
This is not It's fine.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
I mean, the Knicks deserve it. The Knicks deserve it.
They've been awful against the best teams in the league.

Speaker 5 (32:54):
No, but but ultimately and the fact that they did
most of this for the majority of the season. Go
about holme Grin in the lineup, and now they get
him back as well.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
Too, and you know he's still kind of figuring some
things out.

Speaker 5 (33:05):
The addition of Hartenstein was obviously a master stroke, you
know by sant pressI and others. It's okay, see on
sunder team is a juggonnaut The team that I guess,
for whatever reason, was in a kryptonite was the Dallas
Maps and then they dismantled how the Maps are actually
going to be functioning this year.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
So why would you not pick, okay, see.

Speaker 5 (33:21):
To be the dominant team in this But Josh, before
you jump back in, I'm gonna tap but tap this
back over to UCL because interestingly enough, you do not
have the Denver Nuggets in this in this situation, I mean,
the Rockets is fine choice, but to have Denver out,
I need you to explain that, especially with them winners
of nine to ten.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
I know you don't.

Speaker 5 (33:39):
You don't want to be a person of the moment,
but they look like a team that should be reckoned
with here. How what what left you Denver out of
your top five?

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Because I'm not confident about Denver's defense that that is
my big See. Sew knows this, Josh, you will come
to know this when we bring you on. We're saying
we're on your podcast. Sew knows me. I am a
stunt much believer defense wins championships. Now, we could talk
about all of the offensive numbers we want to, but
when it really comes down to it, I need to
know on whose side of the basketball that you got

(34:09):
that's gonna stop the other team's best players or whatever
they got on their roster. And when I look at
this Denver Nuggets team, this team defensively does not feel
like the team that won the championship two years ago.
It just simply doesn't. You had Contavious Colbo Pope, you
had Jeffreys, You had a number of guys where you're
not talking about their offensive numbers, but you were definitely

(34:31):
talking about a couple of hustle plays and stops that
they have been starving to get from all any of
their players, even their role players like Christian Bond, who
had had signs of at the beginning of the year
and is now tapered off.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
From doing it.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Aaron Gordon has been in and out of the starting lineup.
He is this sole reason why we even talked about
the Denver Nuggets have like this, this trifecta of Murray,
Jokic and Gordon collectively, because what Gordon was able to
do defensively the last couple we're not seeing that from him.
And I'm not putting this on identifying any specific reason.

(35:06):
I think what I'm honing in more on is the
Denver Nuggets can very much be a dangerous team when
they're clicking offensively, but when they're needing to stop the
better teams in the NBA, so teams like the Oklahoma
City Thunder if you know, yeah, the Memphis Grizzlies when
they're on one offensively, and I'll even say the Houston

(35:28):
Rockets when Jalen Green and Sengoon and those guys start
I'm in Thompson now, when they all start getting off,
I don't see with the same level of confidence the
Denver Nuggets stopping those star guys. And I think that's
the reason I have more upside on the Rockets defensively
and the Grizzlies defensively than I do. And a perfect
example of that was just the other night when the

(35:49):
Nuggets lost to the Los Angeles Lakers. It wasn't the
fact that I'm saying that the Los Angeles Lakers are
this great team. I've always said the Lakers are going
to be in the mix. I had them predicted to
be a part of the picture. But how they are
letting the Lakers just do what they want shooting the
three ball, it's to me it was a masterclass in asking.
Mike Malone say you gonna make adjustments. You gonna make adjustments, right,

(36:09):
you know what I'm saying. Austin Reeves, it shot three
threes in a row. You wanna make a delta connect?
Is this camping out shooting threes? The Denver Nuggets refuses
to change their m on how they play defensively, and
I feel like that's what's gonna cost this team for
me believing that they're a power team.

Speaker 5 (36:23):
So I love the explanation there, right, So I'm gonna
kick it to you Josh now as well too. So
do you have the same level of faith in Houston,
because my problem to Houston is as great as they
are defensively, is as poor as they are offensive offensive
in the least fit So where do you have this
Rockets in the in this mix of where they you know,
six for you I've been potentially we see the Rockets

(36:45):
and colispick there.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
So Quab and I do a Powerkings every week.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
We had the Rockets to seven, we had him at
two at one point, like they were up there for
a little bit. Uh.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
They're fantastic defensively.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
My problem with Houston's it's offensively in the half court
when the game slows down. They don't really shoot the
three ways even when they get open, and they don't
seem Josh real quick. They don't seem to know who
they want their go to guy to be.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
And I think while Fred van Fleet is not on
that floor, I feel like they're going to continue to
have those problems. There's a couple of guys I would
love to see have that ball when they get into
those kind of sets.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, but I'm not in may Udoka, and so I.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Don't want to be in that. I don't want to
be that. I don't want to get in trouble.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
And it's interesting because going into the year and for
the longest time, I was like, this offense needs to
run through Shangun. But the longer that Fred stays out,
the more I'm like, oh no, Like this has to
go through Fred. Like Fred has to be making decisions.
And they are way better on the floor when Fred
van Fleet is running that offense offensively.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
Now they can do different things. And the problem again.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Is not them getting open shots, is they can't hit
open shots most of the time. And I think that's
going to be their undoing. So although I do like Houston,
I think they're a team of the future. I love
them like men Thompson is one of my favorite place.
He's become one my favorite players in the league. Jalen
Green's hit or miss. I just don't trust them to
be consistent enough offensively to be taken seriously.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
This is a hit or miss league, baby, it is.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
But I mean, if you're gonna tell me, it comes
down to, like who's gonna get a stop late in
games between. I know the Nuggets are not good defensively,
like they're they're at best mediocre, But Nuggets Rockets, I'm
gonna take I'm gonna take I'll take my chances with
Yokis figuring it out against the Houston Rockets, you know,
defense than the Houston Rockets offensive.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
I just think, I just think in a time where
we're sitting on our analytics and our logic, the logic
says it should be the Nuggets, and it should be
the Grizzlies, no question, Hell it should.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
It could probably be the Nuggets.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
That could be the Knicks, and the Knick thing in
the Grizzlies can you can do get out if we're
talking about five. But I'm just going by what I've
been seeing over the last couple of years on these
runs for teams that are on the lower side of
quote unquote people's power rankings, that are making these tremendous
runs with the rosters that they've got. And I feel

(38:59):
like the closest representation of that has been a team
like say the Houston Rockets. More so, we don't get
that from the Memphis Grizzlies. It could have been the
Memphis Grizzlies, but during those times Morant has been unavailable
or the team has been thoroughly decimated with injuries. So
maybe this year it should be the Grizzlies that are
in that conversation to do that with more confidence. I'm

(39:22):
just leaning more on the fact that it's the Rockets
and it's just an ume Udoka thing.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
I don't know what it is.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
I mean, he makes one of the best coaches in
the league, and with me.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
My problem with the Grizzlies said, they turned the ball
over a lot and their offense is really not imagined
it too, like I know, like analytics say that they're
one of, if not the best offense in the league,
but they don't run a lot of picking rolls. There's
not a lot of action in the half court. It's basically,
give the ball to Job, give the ball to Jaron,
go at your guy.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Shaw knows how and Sean knows how I feel about Jared.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Sean knows how I feel about Jaren.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
You know what I'm saying, JJ, he could be kid
dynamite when he actually realizes that he's damn near seven
foot tall, right.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
He loves chilling out in the three point three point
range and shooting threes and taking his man off the dribble,
which can do sometimes. But it's just a little bit
of an awkward offense for me, where again, playoffs, the
game slows down you get into the half court. To me,
I'm very comfortable with a team like the Nuggets who
have different actions in the half court where they can,
you know, run a pick and roll, roll on a

(40:21):
dribble handoff, they're cutting like it's it's just a different
it's just completely different to guard in the playoffs. I
think the Grizzlies are too predictable in the half court,
and I think the Rockets just don't have enough shooting
in the half court. And I do agree with you,
like a big reason why I loved last year's Knicks
team was because they got on the offensive glass. They
were hustling, and they got extra possessions and they played

(40:41):
defense like that was I was a huge believer in
last year's nixt team BeForever we got hurt. But at
the same time, you gotta be able to hit shots.
You have to, and I just don't trust the Rockets
to do so. And I don't trust the Grizzlies half
court offense to be creative enough to even get past
a team like Denver who's going to probably score on
you on the way down in that happen.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
We were talking about this before we started recording the show, Josh,
you know, I would love to see the New York
Knicks be as dominant as as I think everyone expects
them to be. And the biggest problem that I have
with this with what has happened, and again, this is
a matter of the team basically getting into a comfort
level of being used to each other and executing through

(41:24):
each other and with each other, and to kind of
nix that at the expense of getting a Karl Anthony Towns. Listen,
I completely get called Anthony Towns monster year, and you
can make the arguments that he could be an MVP,
you know, no question right. But wasn't just a year
ago we were having that same conversation about Jalen Brunson,
you know what I mean? Like to me, I thought

(41:45):
that for the Knicks, you're putting way too much on
Jalen Brunton too soon. Jalen Brunson is that guy, right,
Like I honestly feel like for the Knicks to get far.
We'll see how this plays out, but if you're talking
about the Knicks actually getting to the Eastern Conference Finals,
it's got to be through Brunson. I know that the
matchups say that it's about Karl Anthony Towns.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Or what he's capable of doing.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
But I think that the Jailen Brunson that we saw
last year on another level, with what you've got around them,
they got to go through him.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
And if he is not a hundred if he's not
one hundred percent right.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
When I say that, I mean you're putting the su
the burden on him to execute for everybody else, to
put everybody else in the best position possible to get
theirs before he gets his. You do a disservice to
the nixt opportunity of possibly getting to the Eastern Conference
Finals and possibly getting to the NBA Finals because I
thought that, I thought that that was what you had
realized when you brought him in and you saw what

(42:43):
he was capable of doing. And it's not to say
he can't do that with Karl Anthony Towns. I'm just
saying so much of the focus is about how great
Carl Anthony Towns is now that he's a New York
Knick and he's playing next to Jalen Brunson. But it's
almost like we've completely forgotten Jalen Brunson had to be
that guy too, right, And he's not been that guy.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
No, Yeah, and I think Jalen will be that guy
in the playoffs. I do think they're gonna lean on
him the most. For me, the problem with the Knicks
is just defensively, you know, Kat they bring Cat out
in the perimeter, if they switch on the pick and rolls,
he can't guard anyone on the perimeter. He drops too
far and drop coverage. He doesn't really contest well. But
I do agree with you where like if if they
don't run the offense through Brunson, they're going to get

(43:21):
lost in the playoffs, and he is the man that
the Knicks need to go through in the playoffs. And
there has been I wouldn't say some type of confusion,
but this team still hasn't really found their identity. Like
analytics say that the offense has been really good. When
I watch this Knicks team, like, I don't know who
they are really, There's really not something that they do
incredibly well. Like in my mind at least, I think

(43:43):
it's hot and cold like they were running out in
transition for a couple of weeks and they will looked
like they were a team that all of a sudden,
like oh, if they get out and run. They're gonna
be good, and they stopped doing that. They were good
when the pick and roll of cat and then they
stop doing that, and it's just kind of like, don't,
I don't know who this team is. So for me,
like there's bigger problems, especially with their defensive identity.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
I want to kind of stare the conversations slightly differently,
you know, and just kind of pick all y'all's brain.
And in terms of the five that you selected, you know,
a lot of this is about talent and a lot
of it is about coaching. How about how that coach
utilizes said talent and said bench. So if you had
to reshuffle this in any way, who do you think

(44:21):
the best five coaches are you know, in your group
specifically or would it be exactly the same.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
In our groups that we did specifically in the five
that I chose. Yep, that's a great question.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Holy crap.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah, all right, because I really like I like tib
I'd like Tips. I know Knicks fans are kind of
split on them, but I like TIBs. Missoula won a championship.
But man, that's a great question.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Man, I don't I don't know what I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna say this. I'll do this. I started off jobs,
I'll give you a small reprieve. So Sean, you're gonna
come in after on this one. So here's what here's
where I am with it when it comes to coaching.
In five, I have uh Kenny Atkinson and the Calves.

(45:10):
In four, I have Taylor Jenkins and the grizz In three,
I have UH Dagonaut and the and the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
In two I have Udoka in the Rockets.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
And in one I've got a Missoula with the Celtics.
So here's the thing from her five. Yeah, here's the thing.
I would easily have Kenny Atkinson up there. My concern
with Atkinson, and I think we're going to see this
in the playoffs, is how is he going to tap
in to his star players in critical situations and critical moments,

(45:55):
right like you've got Mitchell and at times he's got
to be the person to say, Mitchell, I need you
back off on this.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
This is Mobley's time. You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
I don't know if I've seen that yet with Atkinson,
Atkinson has he develops guys and he brings them to
a certain level. Now, when you get to this level,
is he really tapping in to his his players, his
stars and setting up the offenses the way that it
needs to be set up so those guys can thoroughly
shine when it matters to mos in the close out game,
in a game where you could basically dominate the series

(46:25):
and things that nature. I don't have his highest confidence
just yet in Kenny Atkinson because I haven't seen it
do it. He's been an assistant coach to it, but
to say to be a head coach.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
To it, don't know.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
The Udoka Missoula dynamic, to me, what I love about
it is if Udoka had this version of Jalen Brown
and Jason Tatum, I think they would have waxed the
Golden State Warriors in that NBA Finals. But he didn't
have those versions of them in that time and he
didn't have the kind of roster to Missoula has. But
the one thing that I will give Missoula that U

(46:54):
Dooka to me falls short on. Missoula leans so much
into what his offense do.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Great.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
He's like, you guys want to shoot the three, I'm
gonna give you everything possible for you to go do that,
but if you go do it, you need to do
it at the highest level. Don't half asset you need
to do at the highest level. And I've seen it.
He's learned from his mistakes on how he leans in
on his guys to go out there and execute. So
that's why I probably put Missoula over Udoka, not just
because of the championship, but I've seen the evolution of

(47:24):
of Missoula making the adjustments with the roster that he
has to see the level of dominance over a great
sample size as to why we still say the Celtics
are going to be a team to beat no matter
where we whether we like it or not.

Speaker 5 (47:38):
So from my five and I love what you said there,
I would challenge it only on the aspect of because
Udoka leans so heavily into the defense while Missula is
not as defensive minded, but it is still he figured
out away and as much as I was down on Missulu,
especially in that first year, but he figured out a
way to get Tatum and Brown to sacrifice. And maybe

(48:00):
you Douka would have gotten there, maybe he would have
gotten there, but it would have been it would have
looked very, very differently because of the disciplinarian that that
he is. So and it's so interesting because I what
I like and in Cleveland right now is I'm seeing
a lot of that you're seeing Donovan Mitchell, Like, Hey,
I don't need to be the guy get you thirty
at night.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
I needed the.

Speaker 5 (48:16):
Guys to to to expand here, especially with in Mobley.
So the sacrifice I'm seeing in Cleveland is very much
what I saw from Boston last year.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
And that's why it gives me Calves maybe a little
gives me a little bit more often in terms of
their edge, if you will.

Speaker 5 (48:30):
But in terms of the coaching conversation, I do have
Taylor Jenkins, you know, as in the fifth in my rankings, Uh,
I'm going to put Dagonault fourth, and not because I
don't respect him.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
It's just, you know, somebody's got to go there.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
But I've to see I've yet to see Dagonault Shaw.
I've yet to see Dagonault really show me his chops.
And I'm not saying that he's riding on the coattails
of the of the of the greatness of the talent
he has, but I'll be very interested to see this
iteration of Oklahoma City Thunder where he does, because he
is going to have to have his imprint on their run.

(49:05):
He's gonna have to and and I don't want to
have another year of me questioning not the innovativeness, the
innovativeness of what he has on his on his talent
and how he's getting those guys to play, but his
imprint on how he is extracting it when it needs
to happen, because we don't want to have this conversation
again about the Oklahoma City Thunder being a number one
seed and getting knocked out in the first round just
because they had a bad matchup. They literally should have

(49:27):
all of the you know, eyes dotted right literally on
what they need and what they should have going into
the playoffs. That's going to allow him to make this
championship run.

Speaker 5 (49:38):
Yeah, So, no disrespect, no his coach of the AAR
and so forth and so forth, and not throwing that
under the bus anyway. But he's an amazing guy. I'm
not suing to put Akkinson third. I think there's the
aspect of risk he's he's he's coached before, he you know,
refused the job to come take the right job. I
just like him as an individual. I think he's you know,
especially thinking about what he did with those booking teams

(49:59):
previous as well. I'm going to put Missula to again.
He's coming off a championship. You know, he learned a
lot in that first year. And I know the Nuggets
are not even in Calv's group, and they are, you know,
kind of obviously the sleeper of this group, so to speak.
But Michael Malone, he's cognizant of this defense. And I
think in a lot of ways too, what we're not
giving you credit for is that this Nuggets team looked

(50:21):
like crap in the preseason, started the season off really rough,
They reinvented, figured it out, Then they went through another stretch,
they figured out again, got rustled the starting lineup. Now
he's bringing Russ back off the bench. And if you
listen to the ABC broadcast for the Lakers game, Malone
is very cognizant of what the defensive struggles are. It's
not like he's not aware. So I think he's going
to figure some of those things out, and like, how

(50:41):
can I maximize this team with what it does best?
And can we do what I always talk about situational defense.
If I can't be amazing for all forty eight minutes
in the last five minutes in the clutch game, kind
of figure out ways and schemes to lock in. So
I think if I were going from that Lianes, he
would be the best coach of my power five.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
Josh, A lot of conversation here, Where have you gotten?

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Now?

Speaker 2 (51:01):
All right?

Speaker 3 (51:01):
So for me for my list at five, I do
have the diagnal. I mean, last year against the MAVs
when they lost, my biggest problem with Oka see in
the offense was that they really didn't do anything to
adjust the way the MAVs were playing against them.

Speaker 4 (51:12):
And I know it was Mark's first year. You get
a pass for that.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
But this year you were the best team in the league.
And I'm looking forward to see what he does going forward,
but I don't know what that looks like. In at
number four, I do have Thibodeau. Now I liked Tibbs,
but last year I kind of have a gripe with
him because I don't think he made enough adjustments last
year against the Pacers. I know that the Knicks were hurt.
I know that they were down a lot of guys,

(51:36):
but the Pacers got whatever they wanted on the offensive
end against the Knicks last year, and the Knicks were
known as a defensive team, and I just don't think
Gibbs made any adjustments last year as far as maybe
trying to figure out how to trap Haliburton or differ
different schemes to kind of get them off balanced. In
Game six and seven, they got whatever they wanted. The
Pacers got whatever they wanted, and it just kind of
like soured me on Tips because he has his reputation

(51:58):
of like you could only take a team so far,
and last year kind of felt like that was like
he lived up to his reputation. Number Three, I have Atkinson.
I love Kenny Atkinson. I love Kenny Atkinson. He would
probably be higher on this list if he actually has
some success in the playoffs, but he doesn't. I think
what happened to him in Brooklyn was an absolute like injustice,
and I do think if he stayed in Brooklyn, that

(52:19):
team could have won an NBA championship, maybe multiple championships,
barring injury and vaccinations or whatever it is, that that
team would have been really good with Kenny Aakinson at
the helm. I do understand your concerns though about like
letting his superstars cook in the playoffs and seeing what
he does from there. But I just think what he's
been able to bring to Cleveland as far as like
offensive sets, unlocking mobilely, you know, utilizing his bench, picking

(52:43):
up the pace. It's everything he did in Brooklyn with
a lesser roster essentially, and I think he's a fantastic coach.
He just needs the credentials to actually be put up
in the tier with my number two Missoula, who you know,
has won a championship with the Boston Celtics. You know,
it's hard for me to put Missoula over Malone because
Missoula inherited a team that went to the NBA Finals
and was two games away from beating Steph Curry and

(53:04):
the Golden State Warriors. So although I do think he's
a good coach, I do think he you know, he
got gifted a very good situation. He's also psychotic and
at number one that Michael Malone, I'm with Warren here.
I do think he's very aware of, like the of
Denver's efficiencies on defense. I don't think it has anything
to do with him specifically. Yes, against the Lakers, they tried,
you know, they they tried trapping. They they couldn't guard

(53:28):
the pick and roll. And that's the biggest problem is
that Yokic in the pick and roll. How do you
guard that? And sometimes I just don't know if Jokic
has the ability to consistently guard the pick and roll,
and that's a personnel issue. You can switch up schemes,
you can switch up, switch up coverages, maybe go zone.
But I do think that in the he has won
a championship. I think he's a very good coach and
I trust him more than pretty much on any one

(53:49):
of my lists.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Yeah, I don't disagree with you guys having Malone up there,
and obviously it's because you have the Nuggets as part
of your top five teams. I could easily have you know,
Mike Malone up. I would easily have Mike Malone very
high up that totem pole as well too. If I
did have him as far as my top five, I
think it would be interesting because I look at the
dynamic between Malone and we may see it right in

(54:11):
this upcoming playoffs. It could see a Rocket's Nugget type
matchup take place, right, and I would love to see
the gamesmanship going on with a guy like Udoka the stoic.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
You know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying,
don't play like a bitch.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
You know who made Udoka and Mike Malone be like.
You know what I'm saying, stand on business with me, right?
You know what I'm saying, Like I want to. This
is why I think I'm gonna really enjoy this upcoming
NBA's playoffs because the matchups that I think could potentially
be there. I know people are getting glossy ied with
the with the star quality, but I really think people
need to pay attention to who the players are gonna

(54:47):
be as far as the coaching for those teams and
the matchups in there, because I think it's gonna speak
a lot about what kind of games we're gonna see
happen in those seven game series, and that to me,
I would love to be able to have that conversation
down the road when we actually get everything set, because
I think it's gonna make for not just great fodder

(55:07):
for conversation, but also highlighting you know what we're talking about,
because it's easy when it's dominating teams. Right.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
This seems like if a team is just completely just.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Blowing everybody away, and the talent it speaks speaks for itself.
But it's another thing now when we bring all these
other nuances into the fold. And that's what makes me
want to you know what I'm saying now, Listen, I
don't care how bad the Knicks might be getting blasted.
I'm gonna still check the television and stuff because I
want to see what kind of facial expressions Tims has
and what when facial expressions Mizoulla's got like, Cause we're gonna.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Have to have this conversation again.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Brother, Absolutely, I'm not looking forward that conversation can be
bad for Thetics, but we can have it.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
So before we wrap, just everybody one more time, could
just go through your your power five teams real quick, Josh,
kind of start with you.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Yeah, if I had the next it's more out of
just kind of like prosipital of elimination. For me, don't
really trust the Grizzlies or Rockets to put them up there.
For I have the Nuggets, three, I have the Calves, two,
I have the Celtics, one I have the Thunder.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
And for me go ahead.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
For me, I have the Grizzlies.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
I got the Nuggets, the Celtics, the Calves, and OKC
in that reverse order.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
So okay, see number one.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Count and May five Grizzlies, four Rockets, three Calves to Celtics,
and number one the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Speaker 5 (56:22):
Okay, Oklahoma City, you know, reigning through our rankings here,
So we'll see if DA Company are able to you know,
live up to the potential building here. Great basketball team,
great basketball city as well. And I'm really excited for
the for the playoffs, but as we all know, this
is always about matchups, you know, and then they could
get something that's not too sexy for them, probably in
that second round as well too, and that will challenge

(56:44):
their their inexperienced you know, in the playoffs, especially if
it's like a Nuggets team or something like that.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
You know, it could be really, really rough. But I
can't wait.

Speaker 5 (56:51):
And Josh, you are an amazing guest. It's been too
too too long to get you on here. Hopefully this
is the first of many shows to come with us
here joining Thank you with the Dime as well too. Brother,
Thank you so much for joining us this week. Well,
thanks for having me on. Got to get you on
the show as well. Would love to do so we'll
set it up. Thanks again, good.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Time, absolutely man once again our man Josh Rodriguez, co
host of The Dime with Josh and KWAB. Be sure
to check them out. They're available on all major platforms.
Two time nominated Sports Podcast Award Group nominee of Best
Basketball Podcast, Josh Rodriguez joining us. This is the baseline,
Calie warren Shaw, Don't go anywhere. We're back Calie Warrenshaw

(57:36):
basedline NBA podcast. Man, what an awesome, awesome show. Having
our man Josh Rodriguez on board. It's great when we
actually have the opportunity to do these type of episodes
when we're you know, like getting into a little bit
of the power rankings, really kind of digging in more
on the nuances of what makes these teams, you know,
as dominated as they are put them where they are

(57:58):
in their rankings. Man, So really great to have him
on board to kind of tap in and kind of
get the pulse of what some of our our colleagues
and contemporaries feel as far as who they see as
being the best teams in the NBA right now.

Speaker 5 (58:09):
Yeah, John, Josh is an amazing dude when he does
a quob as well too.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Great show The Dime.

Speaker 5 (58:13):
Uh they ended up following us to think of over
a year ago so too when we both were nominated
our both our respective shows nominated for the Best Basketball Podcast.
And it's just great to be able to show love,
you know, to this community that is so fire. Brandon
cares about the NBA and the way that it does,
and as I was alluding to in our conversation, Josh
is also a great producer with Volume, doing some amazing
thing with I think Colin Coward and Draymond Green and.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
All of that stuff. So he's tapped in. He like
it ended a game over there too.

Speaker 5 (58:38):
So it was amazing to kind of bring him onto
our platform and have him share some of his knowledge
his nick fandom as well, but not in a way
that was a biased in any way. I mean, he
was really honest about where he thought that team stands.
So great, great conversation with an amazing colleague. I can't
wait for future collaborations with The Dime man. This is
what this is all about.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Absolutely, and once again I want to sincerely apologize guys
to our listeners. I had in no means wanted any
of our guests to be offed by by the references
of the power names.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
In order. It was just, you know, it fit. You
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
I just wanted to make sure by no intentions are
we you know what do you call it?

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Spoiler alert? You know what I'm saying, Like, we're not
trying to spoil spoiler alert?

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Nobody, man a man, Josh, you know once again, Man,
thank you so much for our listeners.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
You know, this is how we roll.

Speaker 5 (59:32):
Baby.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
As we getting a little.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Bit closer, you know what I'm saying, regular season is
almost done, and then we got to start talking about playoffs,
and then you know, obviously Sean, I gotta get into
some autopsy and man, we got some things ready to
pop off, you know what I'm saying, And so it's
really an exciting time, man. And so as always, we
appreciate you and yours but hopping on board with us
this week for the baseline, Calie Warrenshaw.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
We appreciate you guys, you know we do, and we'll
catch up with you next time.