January 28, 2024 • 57 mins
Renowned evidential medium and spirit interventionist, Jock Brocas shares of a lifetime of wisdom, experience, and knowledge of the realms of the departed and how to safely interact with them.
Belief in the afterlife has reached a level of public acceptance never before seen in modern times, bringing with it an unrealistic sense that anything paranormal must be benign.
Jock Brocas' respect for the very real dangers of afterlife communication has guided his desire to assure the safety of those who wish to develop their gifts. There is much to be learned from a positive connection with loved ones and spirits who have passed. While people are careful to protect their home behind locked doors, they neglect to protect themselves while they explore the neighbourhoods of consciousness.
Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
Belief in the afterlife has reached a level of public acceptance never before seen in modern times, bringing with it an unrealistic sense that anything paranormal must be benign.
Jock Brocas' respect for the very real dangers of afterlife communication has guided his desire to assure the safety of those who wish to develop their gifts. There is much to be learned from a positive connection with loved ones and spirits who have passed. While people are careful to protect their home behind locked doors, they neglect to protect themselves while they explore the neighbourhoods of consciousness.
Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Oh, Henry, Welcome to theX Zone, a place where fact is
fiction and fiction is reality. Nowhere's your host, Rob Kannell to in
(00:32):
that thing YouTube bringing the heart intoa million pieces like you always do,
and don't need to be cool inthere, and welcome back to the exon
(00:54):
Exeon Nation and to reach in everyone of you. A very happy new
year. Wow, where did thenew year? Where did the year go?
Last year? It seems that itwas just January the first, twenty
twenty three, and bang, herewe are January second, twenty twenty four.
Well to each and every one ofyou, the very best of the
new year, health, happiness,love, spirituality. May you each be
(01:18):
blessed with everything good in life andtogether well, I believe that we can
all make a positive difference in thisworld of ours. So once again,
a very merry past Christmas and ofcourse a very happy New Year. I'm
Rob McConnell and this is the XZone, a place where people dare to
believe and dare to be heard.It's a place where fact is fiction and
(01:40):
fiction is reality. And the XZone comes to you Monday through Friday from
ten at ten pm until midnight righthere on Classic twelve twenty streaming around the
world at Classic twelve twenty dot ca. And if you'd like to send me
an email, my email address isX Zone at Classic twelve twenty dot CA.
My guest this hour is a gentlementhat I've had the pleasure of having
(02:00):
on the show before. But it'sbeen a long time since my good friend
Jacques Brokaw has been with us,and Jock, welcome back to the show.
My friend, Ah, thank you, Robert has been. There's been
a lot of water under the bridgesince this is my third, i think,
my third appearance on the X andso I'm really delighted to be back
with you guys and getting another conversation. Well, we're glad you're with us.
(02:23):
Jock. Tell me, did youhave any New Year's resolutions this year?
Well, you know what here,So here's here's a massive resolution.
I in twenty three, I unfortunatelynearly went into a glycemic coma, Oh
my god, and had a bitof a bit of a fright. And
(02:44):
so I decided that I was goingto change my life from there on in.
And I you know, obviously I'mam ex military, so I put
my military head on right and thatI was not going to go down the
route to killing myself, and mychoices had led me there, and I
decided to get for her. SoI beat diabetes two in twenty twenty three.
(03:05):
I reduced my weight by sixty fivenearly seventy pounds. Wow, I
did it all naturally. I didit without taking any drugs or anything else.
And so my aim for twenty twentyfour is to keep that motor running.
Well. Good for you, myfriend, and man, if anybody
(03:27):
can do it, you can.I know how. I know your determination,
I know your tenacity, and likeI said, if anybody can do
it, you can. Congratulations onall the accomplishments that you had in twenty
twenty three, body, well thankyou. Yeah. I mean I think
that's a major one, you know, besides everything else that I've been doing.
I think, you know, weoften take our lives for granted,
(03:50):
and it just takes the universe tocome and kick you on the backside and
they say, you know, job, You've got a choice. You either
keep going down this road or youcan you can change. And so I
opted for the good way out.So I think everything else takes a sideline
to that. I agree, myfriend, you're an expert in the paranormal,
grief and grieving after life, parapsychology, and many other topics. But
(04:15):
for the listeners who may not havehad the opportunity of hearing you the last
time you were with us here onthe X Zone, tell us about yourself.
Who is Jock Broker? Well,you know, I'm a I would
I'd like to use the word theyoung man, because I still feel that
way now, but from hailing fromthe north of Scotland, and I've always
had as you know, Robb,I've always had a very spiritual look.
(04:38):
Ever since I was a young kid, I wanted to be a Catholic priest.
I spent my time in the monasterywith my uncle, who was a
monk, and I spent a lotof time there indoctrinated in dogma. But
there was always something there that kindof made me think differently and made me
act differently. And so as Imoved through my life, I had many,
(05:00):
many different paranormal experiences and decided thatit was time pre meire to investigate
those experiences. And then, ofcourse I've been a professional medium now for
over two decades. I write formany many different international magazines, on the
paranormal and on spirituality and parapsychology.And you know, as you know,
(05:23):
my my, I've written a numberof books, and probably one of my
books that caused the most was inthe field of demonology and the dangers of
the afterlife being deadly departed. SoI have a thirst for wisdom and knowledge,
and you know, to try andbring that to the masses in a
easy digestible format so they can understanda lot more about the afterlife, a
(05:46):
lot more about the paranormal, andalso the dangers of the paranormals as we've
spoke about before. So now I'mtrying to bring science and spirit together.
That's my kind of new my newdirection. What was it that happened in
your life that put you on thequest on your on your never ending journey
to to further investigate the paranormal aswell as demonology and all the other fascinating
(06:14):
topics that you look into. Whatstarted you off? Jock? You know,
I think, as I can say, I often say to people,
I never like to go back andsay I had experiences when I was young,
I was always psychic, and thensince I was younger, But I
think it was going against the norm. The experiences that I was having,
that was kind of you know,like if you when I was in the
(06:36):
monastery and I experience and I tryand discuss it, you know, the
priests or the rector or the monkswould say, well, you know,
we don't deal with that, andthe other side, you know that that's
a that's a dangerous thing, andSatan's out is out rome in the world
trying to get you in. AndI didn't conform to it. It didn't
add up, and so my mycuriosity probably got the better of me,
(07:00):
and I was like, well why. I was always asking why, Well,
why that doesn't make sense. Youknow, that's the same thing.
You know, people will believe thatthe don't Noah built an arc and took
every you know, two of eachanimal, and I'd be the one asking,
well did the animals each other startfighting? I wanted to know why
(07:21):
it would? You know, howdid Moses part of it? So I
wanted to know more about that.So when they would tell me things were
dangerous, so they would tell mewe don't deal with those things and you
can be duped. That gave methe fascination to go deeper and to start
to study it more. And thenas I got on more in my life,
the experiences I were that I washaving that kind of shook me and
(07:45):
I and I tell you, atone point when my father, my father
had passed, and you know,I met this woman called Rachel, and
I had I'd gone up there tohave, you know, take a friend
the mind to go and have areading. And I was like, you
know, I'm not going in this. I don't believe in this crap.
There's no chance. Even though Iwas kind of skeptical and had a spiritual
(08:09):
upbringing, I still thought these thingsdon't happen. And I'll never forget the
day that she pulled me in andI says, I'm not going to go
in and I'm not going to havea reading with you because I don't believe
you're going to read cards and tellme my future in it. And she
just absolutely blew me away, unbelievablewhat she told me. Things that she
told me that could not have beenknown. She didn't. It was like
(08:33):
she knew my father more than anything. And then when she told me that
I had this gift or this ability, that changed things for me, and
she prove it to me and thatthen sent me on an even deeper quest.
Jack. I know that you lookat the paranormal and parapsychology with a
(08:54):
scientific approach. And is it possible, Jock, that we blend science and
spirituality together? You know, Iwould say it is possible, but it
seems improbable at this moment in timebecause there's so there's so many materialists,
so theorists, there's so much statisticsand arguments between skeptics and everything else.
(09:18):
One of my passions is to tryand bring science to spirit and spirit to
science. Which is why, youknow, even though I've been a medium
for over two decades, I wantedto understand the mechanics. And I thought,
you know what, I can't goup again skeptics unless I know their
argument. And I can't go upI can't talk for spirit unless I know
(09:39):
science, and I can't talk forscience unless I know spirit. So let's
go on a new quest. Andso for the past couple of years,
you know, I decided to dothat and see if I can, if
I can make that bridge happen atsome point, and so you know,
I took on the opportunity to godown an academic group, go to university,
(10:01):
study university with a psychology degree,master's degree, and moving on to
a PhD, so that I canhopefully build that bridge and maybe bring it.
I think a lot of scientists reallyreally want to know more about spirit,
and they're too frightened to do so. And I think if we can
(10:22):
give them a safe bridge to dothat and a safe way of doing that,
then there's a possibility that we couldbring mainstream science into the realms of
the spirit and the spirit and themainstream science, and I think it can
happen, and I want it tohappen. Is there a difference in your
opinion, Jock, between spirit aswe talk about spirit within the realm of
(10:43):
the paranormal and now the new scienceof parapsychology and the spirit that has talked
about in religious philosophies. Or arethey one and the same. It's a
great question of I would say,look, they're one and the same,
but they've got different labels, andwe tend to follow other people's expectations and
(11:05):
perceptions, and so one label mightsay, you know, the Holy Spirit
in the Bible and it's in somany religious context and then maybe in you
know, parapsychology, we see thisas a consciousness of force, of an
animating force that we understand that howwe label that is different, but that
in reality it's it's kind of thesame. And so one of my biggest
(11:31):
you know, one of my biggestthings, rob is that I believe our
mind is the psychological building blocks ofour reality, and that our brain is
not the seat of consciousness. Andso if we can start to bring that
spirit into an understanding and parapsychology andmainstream science, then maybe one day we'll
see that the same spirit we talkabout in the Bible and the same spirit
(11:52):
we talk about and parapsychology is oneand the same. What do you think
it'll take in order for mainstream scienceand just not science, I mean all
the sciences to start taking a veryserious look at the paranormal and the claims
that people from around the world aremaking. Like all the people who you
(12:15):
know report paranormal activity, they can'tall be suffering from someone's one sort of
psychosis or another. Isn't there enoughevidence yet for mainstream science to say,
hey, we need to take alook at this. You know that there
is enough evidence, there's definitely enoughevidence, but mainstream science don't do it.
Doesn't do it because it doesn't conformto the perceptions or what they think
(12:39):
is right. I mean, theytend to don't look at For instance,
a skeptical I mean a materialist scientistwill often not look at the evidence that
we have in partapsychology. For instance, some of the greatest evidence that we
got in the partapsychology field has tobe not so much mediumship, but in
(13:03):
past lives and reincarnation. Some ofthe best evidence of you know, the
survival of consciousness is of the incarnation. And so a lot of skeptics,
a lot of scientists don't look atthe evidence. They're too busy arguing statistics
and meta analysis for potential fluctuations andeffect sizes. Where we need to go
(13:26):
way beyond that, we need togo to you know, start to move
forward into experience and to have spontaneousevidential phenomena. Jock stand by my friend.
You and I have to take ourfirst break explanation. Our guest this
hour is Jock Broadcasts. Two websites, jockbroadcasts dot com or evidential Medium dot
(13:48):
com. I'm Rob McConnell. Thisis the excellent We're coming to you from
our broadcast center and studios in SaintCatharine's, Ontario, Canada, on Classic
twelve twenty, your hometown radio,and streamed around the world on Classic twelve
twenty dot CA. Send me youremail, your thoughts, your questions,
very simple xon at Classic twelve twentydot CA. Jack and I will be
(14:11):
back on the other side of theshort break. Go away and once again
everybody, Happy New Year and welcomeback to this is the excell We come
(15:01):
to your Monday through Friday from tenpm Eastern until midnight right here on Classic
twelve twenty and streamed around the worldon Classic twelve twenty dot CA. Jockbrocass
is my special guest, and Jock, in your opinion, what problems or
what main problems exist in the paranormalfield today. Well, for me and
(15:24):
for what I've seen over the years, is lack of education to the lake
community or a wider public community.The problem is is that when we have
the part of psychology field, andwe have scientists and that arguing amongst themselves,
we have a massive problem in tryingto develop funding to move on to
(15:46):
new research or to fund new research. And I think the problem lies in
not educating the public enough, notcreating so much of a demand from the
public point of opinion, I needwe need to get away from sensational paranormal
type shows. Sensationalism. They havetheir place, but we need to do
(16:07):
a lot more with educating the publicabout what paranormal phenomena is and how it
integrates, how PI, this ideaof PI integrates into our life and our
every day or every day living,and how it's a natural it's not.
It's normal, not paranormal. Thatis so true. So many people cannot
(16:30):
wrap their minds around the concept thatthe paranormal is the normal. Absolutely,
it is so normal. And Ithink once we once we can explain to
others, you know, the phenomena. And also there's there's a lot of
people that sensationalize a lot of phenomenathat is really not paranormal and has got
(16:52):
a natural has got a natural causefor it, you know. For instance,
you know, let's look at orbphenomena. Probably ninety five percent of
orbs or ninety nine percent or phenomenaout there's a natural cause for it,
and there's the natural explanation, butwe sationalize it. But then there's that
one percent. Is that one percentthat makes you go, wow, that
(17:12):
has just broken the whole materialist assumptionout of the window. That is that
has gone beyond what science. Youknow that there's an intelligence behind this,
and then we can investigate that further. We need to educate the public on
you know, what is real phenomenaand what is illusionary phenomena? What is
ego? What is coming from youknow, people that don't really understand it
(17:34):
and claim that they do. Ithink if we start to educate the public
a bit more, we'll create agreater demand for it and a greater demand
for understanding it from a scientific pointof view, and also bringing it into
a natural element of life. Youknow, people will not then be so
frightened of it, and maybe theywon't even dabble in it if you know,
(17:56):
they realize it. There's some dangersas well. What is your opinion
about the paranormal TV shows that areout there where? In my opinion,
there's a lot of sensationalism that isput into the production. Yeah, yeah,
go ahead, Jack, I'm sorry. It is such Honestly, it's
(18:17):
such a massive problem. It's sensationalizedin ninety percent of what they say is
relatively not true, even how theycommunicate mechanics, even their communication in the
afterlife. And also let's let's talkabout this, rob Let's do you guys
that are listening out there. Thereis not a electronic or app or any
(18:41):
instrument out there that can tell youa ghost exists. Every single paranormal instrument
there is out there, ladies andgentlemen, measures fluctuations in the environment.
It can only give you a measurementof what is happening and give you a
method, you know, an ideaof something that you need to investigate more.
(19:03):
There is nothing out there that cantell you ghosts exist on your app,
iPhone or anywhere else. It requiresa lot more than that. Maybe
I hope that happens, but Idon't see it. Jack, what is
your opinion then, of EVPs.I am very skeptically EVPs, because you
know, if there's an EVP thatis going to blow my mind. I
(19:26):
haven't come across it yet. Ithink I don't. I'm not an expert
on it, and I know thatthere's many other experts beyond me that can
probably blind me with the science ofit. But I haven't seen any I
haven't heard anything that's blowing my mind. I often think of what they come
out with is gobbledegook, and itdoesn't make much sense, and you can
make it sound it's like paradolia.Some of the things that we see,
(19:49):
we create images in them, andI think we do that with our auditory
senses as well. So to thisday, I haven't seen anything out there,
other and maybe some serious polar Geeseinvestigation cases where there has been potentially
very clear, audible things that warrantinvestigation, but nothing that proves it.
(20:10):
So I'm very skeptical of the EVPphenomena. Until there's more evidence from it,
will I will still be skeptical.In your opinion, Jock, where
is the most amount of evidence thathas been accumulated in any one field of
the paranormal. I would have tosay it's got to be on after life
(20:30):
research in terms of reincarnation, andI would say after life research into communication.
On the other side, with verifiableevidence, I think there's more exciting
research to be had. There's nota lot of research in psychometry, and
I think that's the potential for exploration. I know that the University of Georgia,
(20:56):
Christine Simmons mur has been doing someresearch of that, but there's very
very little research in that type offield ice, so I think we need
to do more with also trans andspontaneous phenomena. I know there's some there's
some researchers in Brazil that are kindof working on that now and they're working
on doing spontaneous phenomena and lighted situations. So that's exciting. So I think
(21:22):
after life and intelligent communication from theother side, we verifiable evidence has probably
got the most evidence, and Ithink in parapsychology field has to be reincarnation.
Reincarnation has probably got the strongest evidencethat we've seen today. Jock,
you mentioned psychometry a few moments ago. Could you explain to our audience what
psychometry is. So psychometry, Imean psychometry comes from the two words in
(21:47):
Latin psych mean and so and metrimean and measure, and it is a
measurement of energy. So, forinstance, with psychometry, people who are
sensitive are able to hold an objectand tune it in the vibry to that
object and then perhaps get information fromthat get and be able to relay that
information and then to corroborate to utilizingtheir senses of clairvoyance, clear audience,
(22:10):
clear sentering, and that kind ofthing. So we have to understand that,
you know, there's a stone tapetheory that's out there where energy gets
imprinted into buildings and rocks and thingslike that, and we have residual energy
that plays. And so someone whocan psychometrize, maybe you know, being
in an area, can pick upthe vibrations of that area or the energy
(22:32):
that's been imprinted into an object andthen be able to read that. And
I also believe that psychometry with agifted individual can be a precursor and a
catalyst to connection to the other side, to start maybe communicating to get more
verifiable evidence. So we're talking aboutpicking up energetic vibrations in objects from in
(22:53):
psychometrizing them. Jack, Why doyou think that some people can tune into
these various frequencies, whether it's Claireaudience or Claire scent, hint, or
or even the ability to seem togo back and forward in time in order
to do some of these very questionablepsychic psychic experiences as well as psychic predictions.
(23:19):
How why is it some people cando this and other people can't.
Well, it's great role because Ihave I have a saying that I use
all the time, and it's andI say to people, just because you
said you could, just because youcan sing, doesn't mean you can sing.
I love it so so kind ofwhat I mean is that is that
(23:41):
you know, some person can singand sound like Pavarotti, or you know,
can sound like Andre Bacelli, andthe other person can sing and it
can't hold an out in a bucket, and he thinks he's the greatest singer
going, but it really is sotuned. So everybody in the planet can
sing, but some people can reallycan really master that. And so whilst
(24:03):
we all have an ability to beable to capitalize on our energy and capitalize
on our own spirit, some peopleare more adept at things than others,
and that could be through their experiencesand also through transformational experiences. So some
people can have, you know,transformations that come from trauma and that can
(24:25):
impact the way that their psychic facultiesstart to arise up in them. So,
you know, and it's the samething as you and I can play
chop sticks on the piano, butyour daughter might be able to play mozap.
You know, she's more gifted.But we can still plut a tune
on the piano. Yeah, wellyou and I will have to go to
a puble one night and try that, pal That would be good. We
get the beer. About what startssinging from there? Is the paranormal feel
(24:52):
dangerous if you don't know what you'redoing, absolutely one hundred percent. And
I know people will hate me forthis, and I you know I I've
spoken about this in my book Barelythe Pathed many times. Yes, it
is, you know, because wedon't understand enough about the field and we're
still learning. And some people doget into problems because they let their ego
(25:15):
run riot. And you've got toremember that if if we do open up
to something that's out there that isa greater intelligence than us, and that
is a malevolent intelligence, you're goingup against something you can't necessarily deal with.
It's a lot more intelligent than youand I could be talking in the
realms of the demonic, on therealms of evil spirits, if you want
(25:37):
to put that down to playing facts. I mean, there's thousands and thousands
and thousands and millions for years onyou and you don't think that they've got
a mass intelligence beyond what you havein this material plane. I mean,
come on, and at the endof the day, the reality is that
evil exists in the world. Weonly need to look around and see evil
in the world. But the thingis something, it's necessary. We wouldn't
(26:00):
know good if we didn't know evil. We didn't know pain, if we
didn't no health. It's a necessarything. I've always believed, Jock,
that we live in a binary existence. You know, zero in one,
and you know the combinations of zero'sand one create our existence because for good,
(26:21):
like you said, there's evil leftright in out black white, and
the list goes on and on andon. So how do we how do
we take the knowledge we have rightnow, Jock and apply it to paranormal
the parapsychology to make it work better. I think what we've got to do
(26:45):
is to realize that it's not somethingthat's intrinsically apart from us. It's something
that's is a part of us,and that we only the same anime enforce
that animates the roads, that animatesthe wind to blow oh, animates us,
and animates the spirit world and animatesyou know, spirits. And when
(27:07):
we realize that, you know,we're not so far apart. We don't
need to start looking at ourselves assomething separate, but more of something that's
more attuned to that that exists inthe same connected flow of everything. I
think once we realize that, thenwe can maybe start to understand it better.
Then we can maybe understand who weare and what our place is within
(27:29):
this realm, and how we interactwith that energy and the power that we
inherently have. Most people don't realizethat their spiritual power is a lot more
than they can even consider that.It's a lot more that we don't even
use half of our mind power thatwe've got. So I think we need
to get we need to go backto basics, and we need to realize,
we need to get to understand whowe are in our place in the
(27:52):
world and realize that the paranormal isnormal, and that everything that exists around
us, you know, from thesame anime and forced it is creation.
All right, Stand by my friend, Stand by my friend. I've got
to take my break and x Onation. Our guest this hour is Jock
Brocas j O C K B RO C A S dot com or evidential
(28:15):
medium dot com. This is theXcell I'm Rob McConnell and we're coming to
you on your hometown radio, Classictwelve twenty from our broadcast center in studios
in Saint Catherine's, Ontario, Canada. If you'd like to send me an
email, it's very simple. Xonat Classic twelve twenty dot CA. Jock
and I return on the other sideof this break, donk Away, Amna
(29:10):
Jinz of Baro Queen a Baby UpstalesTa Cross Train Uma. Welcome back to
(29:45):
everyone. This is the excellent I'mRob McConnell and we are with you Monday
through Friday from ten pm Easter untilmidnight right here on Classic twelve twenty,
streamed around the world on Classic twelvetwenty dot CA. By the way,
you may have thought that was theRolling Stones singing Honky Tom Quoman, but
that was actually Jock and I thelast time we got together at a pub.
(30:10):
You're sounding good. You're sounding goodrole, Thank you. I love
the way that you play the guitar, just like Keith Richards practice practice.
You mentioned demons in the in theprevious segment. Are demons real or are
they a figment of our imagination imposedon us through the religious philosophies? Of
(30:30):
the world. Well, I wouldanswer that question is is the ear that
you breathe real but you can't seeit and without it you wouldn't exist.
So my answer with that is,yes, they are real. Have you
ever come across a demonic entity orsome unknown force that people could relate by
(31:00):
the movie The Exorcist, you know, and Linda Blairs had started spinning and
you know, the beds started jumpingup and down. Or is that the
sensationalistic aspects of Hollywood at their best. No to the Hollywood effects. But
yes, I have come across casesthat have malevolent intelligences that have gone beyond
(31:23):
the realm of science, and I'vehad experience of it direct myself. But
I will say that if people areout there and they think that, you
know, dealing with demons is somethingas easy, there's like The Exorcist and
they spin their heads around and vomitgreen pean, you know, green peace.
(31:45):
So that doesn't happen. That's forthe movies. But where you find
most of the battle will go onpsychologically in the mind, and then as
it spills out into phenomena that externalto the individual. You know, there
can be phenomena that happens in theimmediate environment that warrants investigation. But I've
(32:08):
had experiences myself, and some frighteningexperiences at that. And here's the thing,
someone who's actually dealt in that realmwon't always go out, won't normally
just go out and shout about itaround the rafters and talk about it and
utilize it like it's a famous thingto deal with or you know, hey,
you look at me. Because oneof the things I'll say, anybody
(32:30):
who has trod on that ah beenand felt it never ever forgets it,
and it kind of scars you.And it's not something you go out and
shout about and wear a badge ofhonor. So how did you deal with
it? You said that you hadpersonal experience? How did you How did
(32:52):
you? How did you beat yourdemon? So to speak? Purely prayer?
There's nothing that's going to be Youcan't run about with it. Like
I said in Deadly Departed, thatDeadly Departed, you can't run about with
a wool woof stick, and youcan't run about with sage and incense and
think that you're going to battle andmy levolent intelligence that is, you know,
(33:15):
trying to get at you or obsessyou in any way just by or
holding a crystal and think you're goingto banish them. I mean that,
I mean, that's for the movies. That's just you know, we're not
playing in witchcraft and things and hogwarksand stuff like that. You know,
that's this, it's just for entertainment. But really the only thing that can
(33:38):
seriously help you to deal with somethinglike that is the power of the is
divine power. And I put thatdown to prayer and knowing how to pray.
And it's not just about saying words, and it's about transformation of your
own spirit and being able to discern. That's that's one of the probably the
(33:59):
greatest if anybody can have, asthe power of discernment, to be able
to discern. How I dealt withit was purely through discernment and prayer,
prayer to who what kind of prayers. Well, one of the things is,
you know, like you're not goingto just say prayers. For instance,
a lot of people will say andour Father, hail Mary or and
(34:21):
they don't necessarily it doesn't necessarily doanything because there's no really divine vibration there.
Whatever words that you say in aprayer can just be said Gleebally,
You've got to bring your whole mind, your spirit, your soul, the
whole thing together, and that sometimesis mean is maybe bearing your fears and
(34:45):
bearing your soul to higher power andsurrendering. So it's not just about the
words that you say, it's aboutthe feeling, the emotion and bringing everything
together. I mean, I rememberat my time when I was going through
that experience. I mean I wason my knees trying my eyes out,
and the pain that I was feelingin my mind was terrible, and it
(35:12):
wasn't simple for me to just sayHail Mary and our Father. I really
had to go to the dark knightof the soul and find the spark inside
of me and really ignite that.And often it's at your lowest sebts that
you'll find the greatest light. Whatis the what is the power behind the
prayer? How does the the prayeractually get rid of the demon? You
(35:37):
know, come down to divine law, Rob, because you've got to You've
got to understand that, you know, we we have laws in this world
that you know, one state hasa different law or one one country has
a different law from and that's justman's laws. Man's laws really don't have
any power over you. Divine lawis how the world is, how the
(35:59):
universe opera. It's divine law.Like even an elevolent intelligence has to come
under divine law. It has there'sa relationship to divine law. And so
understanding the mechanics of divine law,understanding the relationship of these laws helps you
(36:19):
and able to be able to dealwith potential problems like that. And you've
got to remember that even a demoncomes under divine law. It can't just
break divine law and go and dowhatever it wants to do, and just
because then you'd have them roman aboutthe world and just taking over obsessing people
left, right and center. Itdoesn't happen. There is laws that put
(36:43):
around a place in the universe thatprotect us, and they're still substitute.
I mean, they still come underthe same laws that we come under.
The whole universe does. And soit's understanding the power of divine laws and
understanding the power of the divine authoritythat I think is one of the keys.
The divine law that you talk aboutis that the same divine law that
(37:08):
is in the different religious philosophies aroundthe world. Yeah, you know,
there's there's well, when it comesdown to understanding divine law, people will
say, there's a law reciprocation,there's a law cause and effect, and
there's and that that that's a wayof understanding it. But it can go
(37:29):
even deeper than that. So asa simple example, the law of karma
is the way that the universe operatesreally, you know, and if we
look at a world we're in,a world of duality is created by a
you know, a karmic law,and the law of you know, reciprocity
(37:57):
or the law of forgiveness, adivine law forgiveness. It can't operate without
any other laws. So it can'toperate without a camic law. It does.
None of these laws stand on theirown, so they all have a
relationship to each other. And whilstin a lot of I mean I try
to keep away from religion, butin a lot of spiritual texts, there's
an understanding of divine principles and divinelaws. The understand and how the interact
(38:24):
with each other and how I supposeit could be. Even if you take
it down to maybe molecular science andatoms and how you know when there's one
downward spin them and I'm not aphysicist, but it spins upwards and they
can be there's no space in time, there's a distance between them. So
(38:47):
there's there's a replica, there's athere's a relationship, there's an integral relationship
there between those two polarities, andso we understand that divine laws operate on
the same relationship. They need arelationship to each other in order to operate.
You know, we were talking aboutkarma, and karma is even talked
(39:10):
about in the Bible in the TenCommandments where it says doing to others as
you would have them doing to you, which is exactly the meaning of karma.
So why is it that people stillhaving caught on that there's a cause
and effect and if you're going todo something good, you know it works,
it comes back to you. Butif you do something bad, you
(39:32):
know it's going to come back toyou as well. And you know that,
you know, Rob that's a verysimplified way of looking at karma,
because everybody who looks at karma seesit, well, not everybody, but
many people look at it. Thestates. It's about what comes around goes
around. You know, you giveit, good you get back, and
good you give it back to youknow, that's just a simplified understanding the
karma. Karma goes so much deeperan actual fact, we don't exist without
(39:55):
karma. Karma is integral in everyaspect of our life and every thought,
in every action, and it goeseven beyond cause and effect. We only
exist because of the karmic work.And so, yes, we can understand
it from a simplified idea. Whatyou give out, you get back,
(40:15):
or you sow seeds and you getthem back, and that's mentioned in the
Bible as well. But karma ishow the universe operates. That's how we
only exist because we exist in ak a camic fuel. How can we
(40:36):
use karma or not use it?Well, yeah, use it. It
would be a good way of lookingat it. Is karma part of what
needs to be taught when it comesto the paranormal. Would you consider karma
to be one of the utmost lessonsthat we need to learn in order to
(40:57):
better understand the paranormal? I wouldthink karma could play I would think kara
could play a massive role in understandinga paranormal phenomena or or or let's say
a normal phenomena in the world ofhow we operate, how the universe operates,
because it operates on a karmic principle. It's not just as like I
(41:20):
said, it's not as simple aswhat you give out to get back.
So I think it's something we needto look at deeper into the causes and
effects, even within parapsychology and wherekarma is intertwined in that in that field
as well. And I would saythat anybody who's investigating the paranormal has to
(41:42):
understand the karma implications. There hasto be balance. And when we create
a wave and we have the upwardthe upward wave in a downward wave duality,
and it has to come into balanceand something that sort of balance has
to come in. There has tobe an element that brings that back and
(42:06):
that comic effect. So whatever youdo out there is going to have a
comic effect. You need to thinkabout what you're doing. So let's take
it for exist existing examples. Allright, I'm going to have to hold
you here for the example because Ihave to take her final break. Jock
Fascinating Topic, Fascinating Guests exonation ourguests this hours Jockbrocasts, Jockbrocast dot com
(42:29):
and evidential medium dot commerce websites.And you're listening to the Xon Radio show
right here on Classic twelve twenty,streamed around the world on Classic twelve twenty
dot CA. And if you'd liketo send me an email, love getting
your emails. Explanation Xon at Classictwelve twenty dot CA. And here's Jock
(42:50):
and I playing hockey talk woman thatyou may have thought was the Rolling Stones,
and well it really is. We'llbe back on the other side.
Don't go away, try to teamand Bob fail for rap beaming right of
(43:12):
cross a should every time I seeyour face if revis me are the places
(43:37):
we used to go? But allmy god is a phoneer crap. I'm
not reading like you're not going backanymore. I don't. I'm bake it
(44:01):
and welcome back. This is theexcellent I am Rob McConnell. And no,
that was not Jock Brocast singing.That was Ringo Star singing photograph.
And we're coming to you from thestudios and corporate offices of Classic twelve twenty
Classic twelve twenty dot CA. Jockfirst of all before we get back into
the meat of the interview. Thanksvery much for coming on the show tonight.
(44:22):
Means a lot. Over the years, you've been a great friend,
and I want to congratulate you onall that you're doing and wishing wish you
the very best of luck in yourcontinuing education in order to bring science and
stability to the world of the paranormal. Thank you, Rob, That means
a lot. Thank you, andit's honored to be on here again.
(44:43):
Well, it's not going to besuch a long time as it was before,
my friend, We're going to haveyou one quite often. Awesome.
Let's get back to karma. Giveme some examples, all right, So
let's let's talk about karma from aparanormal point of sure. It's say,
for instance, we have a famwho has been subjugated by a spiritual force
and that needs to be investigated andthere could be real phenomena there. We've
(45:07):
got to understand that that family issuffering psychologically. There's possibly psychosis involved,
there's possible mental imbalance involved. Weneed to be able to identify, you
know, the difference between what ispossibly a mental imbalance from a medical point
of view, or what has gota spiritual, a spiritual connotation to it.
So then we bring in and youknow, paranormal to get called in,
(45:30):
and all of a sudden, theparanormal teams so excited because they think
they've got they've got a case.And then what they do is is they
they immediately come in and say tothe family, you've got a demon and
it's starting to frighten a living dilatesout of them even more, but we
can help me deal with this.They're not even taking into consideration the caarmic
(45:51):
implications of what they're doing and howthere can be a massive imbalance and cause
even more mental anguish and possibly worsepsycho and they don't have any real way
of helping that family because they're sodriven by their own egos. They're so
driven by this whole sensational angle ofit. So I think we need to
(46:14):
have our paranormal investigators or panormal teamsidentify what are the potential kind of implications
of us, how we put thisacross to this family, and are we
actually going to end up destroying thatfamily. We don't have any evidence phenomena
being what they claim it is,and if we go in and start giving
(46:36):
them false information. What are wegoing to do to a family? What
are we going to do to them? What are the implications that could destroy
this family because of what we aresaying? Yeah, and I really believe
that there are a number of paranormalresearch teams out there that they honestly believe
in their hearts of hearts they're doingsomething good, which in reality, is
(46:59):
there causing undo problems with these families. Absolutely? Absolutely, And you've got
to think about how these families aresuffering any But you know, if I
ever get called into any potential cases, the first thing that's on my mind
is not the phenomena and what's happening. First thing that I want to know
about is how are the family coping, What are they going through? What
(47:22):
is the suffering in the level ofsuffering that they are going Let me start
from the au and then work towardsgoing towards understanding the phenomena. What may
or may not be happening when peoplewho were paranormal investigators or psychics or mediums,
when they try and bring people tothe other side go to the light.
(47:45):
Is that an actual thing or practicethat they can accomplish or is this
just part of the mumbo jumble ofthe paranormal. You know, it can
be a bit of both, becauseI always say, look, if you
don't have any evidence of anything,then don't say it. Because anybody can
(48:05):
sit down and say I'm feeling aspirit here and I'm going to send it
and they're like, oh, Isee a portal opening all they're gone,
and then yeah, that's it,And it can be a bit of a
placeble effect, but there's no evidencethere. I'm always looking for evidence,
and so I do think there's apower in being able to understand it from
a medium's point of view. IfI'm in a situation where I'm going to
(48:25):
try and help a spirit over tothe other side, I've got to realize,
rob that it ain't me that's doingit, right, I'm just a
conduit from the other side. I'mjust a telephone or I'm just going to
be a radio receiver and I'm goingto let someone else do the work.
So someone else on the other side, that spirit team, a spirit guy,
(48:47):
they're the ones that are doing thehard work. I'm not. I'm
just being the anchor and allowing itto operate through me. So these people
that go in and say I'm closingthe portal. I'm doing this, and
that's a little bit of the ego. It's not it's not it's not really
true. It's a bit of mumbojumbo. And so there has to be
an evidential thing around it. Therehas to be a pattern of evidence that
(49:10):
will that will prove that, andif if if phenomena stops after that,
then then obviously you know the jobhas been done. But just realize,
ladies and gentlemen, it ain't themedium that is doing it. It's it's
the team that they work with onthe other side. They're the ones that
are doing it. We don't havethe power to send them to the light.
(49:30):
We can just ask for a spiritualintervention and allow that divine law to
operate perfectly the way it should be, and the beings on the other side
that can actually work through us toanchor that and and take that being over
to the light. So we haveto be very careful. We really have
to be very careful what we claim. Jack and I know that you're very
(49:52):
interested in pursuing research into the afterlife. What do we have so far as
proof of the afterlife? When itcomes to claims being made by people that
they've gone to the other side,they have seen the light, they have
gone through the tunnel. Is thisreal or is this all hocus pocus?
(50:19):
Well, I'm going to I veryrarely ever spoke about this in the in
the public, and a lot ofpeople who claim they have NDEs sensationalized them
and we don't really have any evidence. And there's a few people in the
world that have actually had out ofbody experiences and has been tested scientifically,
(50:40):
like Alex Tannis, he was agreat person for that kind of thing as
well. I recently interviewed on myown podcast, Graham i'man sick in name,
but he's been tested. But there'sother people who have an NDEs and
have been able to verify the evidencethat been in a hospital and they can
verify evidence. I think we've gotto take that seriously. You know,
doctor Sampanam has been doing some reallygreat research on that side of things.
(51:05):
But here's the thing, Rob,I've had an nd and I never spoke
about it in a serious car accidentbefore my wedding, and I survived that
accident because I heard my father fromthe other side called my name, And
what actually happened then is the andI never came. It was written about
(51:28):
in a maxim many many many yearsago because of Woodham, but I never
went out and I never popularized itor anything I went through because I had
no real evidence of my experience,and people's end experiences are very personal to
them, yes, but when Ihad that experience, my whole life changed,
(51:51):
and my and my abilities and siteyou know, being psychic abilities and
connecting on the side that got stronger. That was a lot that changed.
And I only really brought this tothe FOE recently as part of the research
I was doing at university, becauseI had to open up and talk about
it. But my experiences were phenomenal. What I witnessed. You know,
(52:14):
I didn't see a massive tunnel oflight or anything else, but I was
connected to everything. There was abeing that took me out of that accident.
At the time, I witnessed everythingfrom above, the light that I
seen that was everywhere and surrounded allaround me. I knew that I was
safe. The only thing that broughtme back was known that my wife was
(52:34):
in the car, and you know, I could see the truck driver that
hit as I could see everything,my father, I believe was the one
that called the book called me.He had passed years before, and so
the voice that I heard was hisvoice that called my name, that made
me move and jump. Before Iknew it, I was out of my
body. I felt nothing from theaccident because I was taken from my body
(52:57):
and I was and I witnessed everythingfrom above and I was held in this
in these divine arms. I feellike this. I was just safe,
and there was a feeling of connectedto everything. There was no separation from
nothing, and that experience, Imean, there was a lot more to
it, but that experience for myNDE was transformative in every way. But
(53:24):
I had no evidence that I couldcome back other than certain things that happened
and being able to verify what youknow, the lorry driver did and how
the ambulance turned up with nobody actuallyphoning them because we were in the middle
of nowhere in the Scottish mountains andit was snowing. It was all very
weird. But it totally changed me, and I think everybody's those who have
(53:49):
had transformational experiences through NDEs, itchanges them in a profound way. And
I think there's a lot more researchthat we need to do into the NDE
experience, and we don't, andwe have to get to the point.
We can't just accept everybody is sayingI've had an ND because you've got no
proof of what I've had, andit's very personal to me. I kept
very quiet for many, many minuteyears. There has to be more vetting
(54:13):
of all the claims of the paranormalWe just absolutely you just can't take everything
at face value anymore. You can'tbecause you could have an ND now and
just make it up in your headand then tell me what. But there
has to be some formal We haveto vet it because there's a lot of
people that claim ends that are probablynot real, but there's a lot of
people that have and it's transformed themin tremendous ways. And I think transformation
(54:37):
is probably one of the key ingredientsI would say that verifies maybe that experience.
Jock, we've got about two minutesleft. First of all, thanks
very much for coming on the show. All was great pleasure talking to you
and to you and your family thevery best of the new year. But
i'd like to hear your final thoughts, your wisdom that you'd like to share
(54:58):
with the X or nation in thenext and a half, Oh, well
I was. I would say,okay, that everybody who is out there
has all paranormal abilities inherent inside ofthem, and that I want you to
think about the paranormal something is notexternal to you, but something that is
(55:22):
part of you, and it needsto be integrated into your life more than
feared or refuted. And maybe ifyou integrate this into your life as part
of your normal makeup, maybe,just maybe your life is going to change
(55:42):
for the better because you have adivine power inherent within you that you probably
don't even know how to use.Probably what's next for you, Jack?
What are you going to be upto in the next Well, I've got
loads of studying, the loads ofresets to do. I'll be finishing my
masters, I'll be moving on toPhD. I will be writing a new
(56:05):
book, and I will be bringingout a new magazine called Partawise, which
will distill the academic information to aneasier format for the Lake community to get
the teeth into and understand. You'regoing to be one busy man, And
I want to thank you very muchfor joining us, Jock, always a
great pleasure. Let our listeners knowhow they can find out more about you.
(56:25):
Connect with me on my website jobbrokersdot com, orevidentialmedium dot com,
or get me on Instagram if youwant to ask me a question, it's
just at Spiritual Medium and that's probablythe fastest place that I'll respond in until
the next time we meet, myfriend, take care of yourself, and
like I said, regards to youand the family and the happy know you're
to you Wall and to you guysand to all your family. Rob.
(56:47):
That was great being back on.I look forward to speaking to you against
soon. You got it, myfriend. Take care of yourself. Jack,
God bless blad bless you too.Path All right, explanation. Jack
Broca has been my guest to thishour. Coming up the other side of
the news at the top of thehour right here on the xpone, we're
going to be talking more about theparanormal. My guest is Randal Smith,
(57:08):
and Randall is in Huntington, Indiana. Wow. The paranormal two hours every
night, Monday through Friday, righthere on Classic twelve twenty Hmmm. A
place where people dare to believe yep, and place where people dare to be
heard. That's what we're all aboutand I'll be back on the other side
of this commercial break as we continuefrom our broadcast center and studios on your
(57:31):
hometown radio, Classic twelve twenty,streaming around the world on Classic twelve twenty dot CA
Oh, Henry, Welcome to theX Zone, a place where fact is
fiction and fiction is reality. Nowhere's your host, Rob Kannell to in
(00:32):
that thing YouTube bringing the heart intoa million pieces like you always do,
and don't need to be cool inthere, and welcome back to the exon
(00:54):
Exeon Nation and to reach in everyone of you. A very happy new
year. Wow, where did thenew year? Where did the year go?
Last year? It seems that itwas just January the first, twenty
twenty three, and bang, herewe are January second, twenty twenty four.
Well to each and every one ofyou, the very best of the
new year, health, happiness,love, spirituality. May you each be
(01:18):
blessed with everything good in life andtogether well, I believe that we can
all make a positive difference in thisworld of ours. So once again,
a very merry past Christmas and ofcourse a very happy New Year. I'm
Rob McConnell and this is the XZone, a place where people dare to
believe and dare to be heard.It's a place where fact is fiction and
(01:40):
fiction is reality. And the XZone comes to you Monday through Friday from
ten at ten pm until midnight righthere on Classic twelve twenty streaming around the
world at Classic twelve twenty dot ca. And if you'd like to send me
an email, my email address isX Zone at Classic twelve twenty dot CA.
My guest this hour is a gentlementhat I've had the pleasure of having
(02:00):
on the show before. But it'sbeen a long time since my good friend
Jacques Brokaw has been with us,and Jock, welcome back to the show.
My friend, Ah, thank you, Robert has been. There's been
a lot of water under the bridgesince this is my third, i think,
my third appearance on the X andso I'm really delighted to be back
with you guys and getting another conversation. Well, we're glad you're with us.
(02:23):
Jock. Tell me, did youhave any New Year's resolutions this year?
Well, you know what here,So here's here's a massive resolution.
I in twenty three, I unfortunatelynearly went into a glycemic coma, Oh
my god, and had a bitof a bit of a fright. And
(02:44):
so I decided that I was goingto change my life from there on in.
And I you know, obviously I'mam ex military, so I put
my military head on right and thatI was not going to go down the
route to killing myself, and mychoices had led me there, and I
decided to get for her. SoI beat diabetes two in twenty twenty three.
(03:05):
I reduced my weight by sixty fivenearly seventy pounds. Wow, I
did it all naturally. I didit without taking any drugs or anything else.
And so my aim for twenty twentyfour is to keep that motor running.
Well. Good for you, myfriend, and man, if anybody
(03:27):
can do it, you can.I know how. I know your determination,
I know your tenacity, and likeI said, if anybody can do
it, you can. Congratulations onall the accomplishments that you had in twenty
twenty three, body, well thankyou. Yeah. I mean I think
that's a major one, you know, besides everything else that I've been doing.
I think, you know, weoften take our lives for granted,
(03:50):
and it just takes the universe tocome and kick you on the backside and
they say, you know, job, You've got a choice. You either
keep going down this road or youcan you can change. And so I
opted for the good way out.So I think everything else takes a sideline
to that. I agree, myfriend, you're an expert in the paranormal,
grief and grieving after life, parapsychology, and many other topics. But
(04:15):
for the listeners who may not havehad the opportunity of hearing you the last
time you were with us here onthe X Zone, tell us about yourself.
Who is Jock Broker? Well,you know, I'm a I would
I'd like to use the word theyoung man, because I still feel that
way now, but from hailing fromthe north of Scotland, and I've always
had as you know, Robb,I've always had a very spiritual look.
(04:38):
Ever since I was a young kid, I wanted to be a Catholic priest.
I spent my time in the monasterywith my uncle, who was a
monk, and I spent a lotof time there indoctrinated in dogma. But
there was always something there that kindof made me think differently and made me
act differently. And so as Imoved through my life, I had many,
(05:00):
many different paranormal experiences and decided thatit was time pre meire to investigate
those experiences. And then, ofcourse I've been a professional medium now for
over two decades. I write formany many different international magazines, on the
paranormal and on spirituality and parapsychology.And you know, as you know,
(05:23):
my my, I've written a numberof books, and probably one of my
books that caused the most was inthe field of demonology and the dangers of
the afterlife being deadly departed. SoI have a thirst for wisdom and knowledge,
and you know, to try andbring that to the masses in a
easy digestible format so they can understanda lot more about the afterlife, a
(05:46):
lot more about the paranormal, andalso the dangers of the paranormals as we've
spoke about before. So now I'mtrying to bring science and spirit together.
That's my kind of new my newdirection. What was it that happened in
your life that put you on thequest on your on your never ending journey
to to further investigate the paranormal aswell as demonology and all the other fascinating
(06:14):
topics that you look into. Whatstarted you off? Jock? You know,
I think, as I can say, I often say to people,
I never like to go back andsay I had experiences when I was young,
I was always psychic, and thensince I was younger, But I
think it was going against the norm. The experiences that I was having,
that was kind of you know,like if you when I was in the
(06:36):
monastery and I experience and I tryand discuss it, you know, the
priests or the rector or the monkswould say, well, you know,
we don't deal with that, andthe other side, you know that that's
a that's a dangerous thing, andSatan's out is out rome in the world
trying to get you in. AndI didn't conform to it. It didn't
add up, and so my mycuriosity probably got the better of me,
(07:00):
and I was like, well why. I was always asking why, Well,
why that doesn't make sense. Youknow, that's the same thing.
You know, people will believe thatthe don't Noah built an arc and took
every you know, two of eachanimal, and I'd be the one asking,
well did the animals each other startfighting? I wanted to know why
(07:21):
it would? You know, howdid Moses part of it? So I
wanted to know more about that.So when they would tell me things were
dangerous, so they would tell mewe don't deal with those things and you
can be duped. That gave methe fascination to go deeper and to start
to study it more. And thenas I got on more in my life,
the experiences I were that I washaving that kind of shook me and
(07:45):
I and I tell you, atone point when my father, my father
had passed, and you know,I met this woman called Rachel, and
I had I'd gone up there tohave, you know, take a friend
the mind to go and have areading. And I was like, you
know, I'm not going in this. I don't believe in this crap.
There's no chance. Even though Iwas kind of skeptical and had a spiritual
(08:09):
upbringing, I still thought these thingsdon't happen. And I'll never forget the
day that she pulled me in andI says, I'm not going to go
in and I'm not going to havea reading with you because I don't believe
you're going to read cards and tellme my future in it. And she
just absolutely blew me away, unbelievablewhat she told me. Things that she
told me that could not have beenknown. She didn't. It was like
(08:33):
she knew my father more than anything. And then when she told me that
I had this gift or this ability, that changed things for me, and
she prove it to me and thatthen sent me on an even deeper quest.
Jack. I know that you lookat the paranormal and parapsychology with a
(08:54):
scientific approach. And is it possible, Jock, that we blend science and
spirituality together? You know, Iwould say it is possible, but it
seems improbable at this moment in timebecause there's so there's so many materialists,
so theorists, there's so much statisticsand arguments between skeptics and everything else.
(09:18):
One of my passions is to tryand bring science to spirit and spirit to
science. Which is why, youknow, even though I've been a medium
for over two decades, I wantedto understand the mechanics. And I thought,
you know what, I can't goup again skeptics unless I know their
argument. And I can't go upI can't talk for spirit unless I know
(09:39):
science, and I can't talk forscience unless I know spirit. So let's
go on a new quest. Andso for the past couple of years,
you know, I decided to dothat and see if I can, if
I can make that bridge happen atsome point, and so you know,
I took on the opportunity to godown an academic group, go to university,
(10:01):
study university with a psychology degree,master's degree, and moving on to
a PhD, so that I canhopefully build that bridge and maybe bring it.
I think a lot of scientists reallyreally want to know more about spirit,
and they're too frightened to do so. And I think if we can
(10:22):
give them a safe bridge to dothat and a safe way of doing that,
then there's a possibility that we couldbring mainstream science into the realms of
the spirit and the spirit and themainstream science, and I think it can
happen, and I want it tohappen. Is there a difference in your
opinion, Jock, between spirit aswe talk about spirit within the realm of
(10:43):
the paranormal and now the new scienceof parapsychology and the spirit that has talked
about in religious philosophies. Or arethey one and the same. It's a
great question of I would say,look, they're one and the same,
but they've got different labels, andwe tend to follow other people's expectations and
(11:05):
perceptions, and so one label mightsay, you know, the Holy Spirit
in the Bible and it's in somany religious context and then maybe in you
know, parapsychology, we see thisas a consciousness of force, of an
animating force that we understand that howwe label that is different, but that
in reality it's it's kind of thesame. And so one of my biggest
(11:31):
you know, one of my biggestthings, rob is that I believe our
mind is the psychological building blocks ofour reality, and that our brain is
not the seat of consciousness. Andso if we can start to bring that
spirit into an understanding and parapsychology andmainstream science, then maybe one day we'll
see that the same spirit we talkabout in the Bible and the same spirit
(11:52):
we talk about and parapsychology is oneand the same. What do you think
it'll take in order for mainstream scienceand just not science, I mean all
the sciences to start taking a veryserious look at the paranormal and the claims
that people from around the world aremaking. Like all the people who you
(12:15):
know report paranormal activity, they can'tall be suffering from someone's one sort of
psychosis or another. Isn't there enoughevidence yet for mainstream science to say,
hey, we need to take alook at this. You know that there
is enough evidence, there's definitely enoughevidence, but mainstream science don't do it.
Doesn't do it because it doesn't conformto the perceptions or what they think
(12:39):
is right. I mean, theytend to don't look at For instance,
a skeptical I mean a materialist scientistwill often not look at the evidence that
we have in partapsychology. For instance, some of the greatest evidence that we
got in the partapsychology field has tobe not so much mediumship, but in
(13:03):
past lives and reincarnation. Some ofthe best evidence of you know, the
survival of consciousness is of the incarnation. And so a lot of skeptics,
a lot of scientists don't look atthe evidence. They're too busy arguing statistics
and meta analysis for potential fluctuations andeffect sizes. Where we need to go
(13:26):
way beyond that, we need togo to you know, start to move
forward into experience and to have spontaneousevidential phenomena. Jock stand by my friend.
You and I have to take ourfirst break explanation. Our guest this
hour is Jock Broadcasts. Two websites, jockbroadcasts dot com or evidential Medium dot
(13:48):
com. I'm Rob McConnell. Thisis the excellent We're coming to you from
our broadcast center and studios in SaintCatharine's, Ontario, Canada, on Classic
twelve twenty, your hometown radio,and streamed around the world on Classic twelve
twenty dot CA. Send me youremail, your thoughts, your questions,
very simple xon at Classic twelve twentydot CA. Jack and I will be
(14:11):
back on the other side of theshort break. Go away and once again
everybody, Happy New Year and welcomeback to this is the excell We come
(15:01):
to your Monday through Friday from tenpm Eastern until midnight right here on Classic
twelve twenty and streamed around the worldon Classic twelve twenty dot CA. Jockbrocass
is my special guest, and Jock, in your opinion, what problems or
what main problems exist in the paranormalfield today. Well, for me and
(15:24):
for what I've seen over the years, is lack of education to the lake
community or a wider public community.The problem is is that when we have
the part of psychology field, andwe have scientists and that arguing amongst themselves,
we have a massive problem in tryingto develop funding to move on to
(15:46):
new research or to fund new research. And I think the problem lies in
not educating the public enough, notcreating so much of a demand from the
public point of opinion, I needwe need to get away from sensational paranormal
type shows. Sensationalism. They havetheir place, but we need to do
(16:07):
a lot more with educating the publicabout what paranormal phenomena is and how it
integrates, how PI, this ideaof PI integrates into our life and our
every day or every day living,and how it's a natural it's not.
It's normal, not paranormal. Thatis so true. So many people cannot
(16:30):
wrap their minds around the concept thatthe paranormal is the normal. Absolutely,
it is so normal. And Ithink once we once we can explain to
others, you know, the phenomena. And also there's there's a lot of
people that sensationalize a lot of phenomenathat is really not paranormal and has got
(16:52):
a natural has got a natural causefor it, you know. For instance,
you know, let's look at orbphenomena. Probably ninety five percent of
orbs or ninety nine percent or phenomenaout there's a natural cause for it,
and there's the natural explanation, butwe sationalize it. But then there's that
one percent. Is that one percentthat makes you go, wow, that
(17:12):
has just broken the whole materialist assumptionout of the window. That is that
has gone beyond what science. Youknow that there's an intelligence behind this,
and then we can investigate that further. We need to educate the public on
you know, what is real phenomenaand what is illusionary phenomena? What is
ego? What is coming from youknow, people that don't really understand it
(17:34):
and claim that they do. Ithink if we start to educate the public
a bit more, we'll create agreater demand for it and a greater demand
for understanding it from a scientific pointof view, and also bringing it into
a natural element of life. Youknow, people will not then be so
frightened of it, and maybe theywon't even dabble in it if you know,
(17:56):
they realize it. There's some dangersas well. What is your opinion
about the paranormal TV shows that areout there where? In my opinion,
there's a lot of sensationalism that isput into the production. Yeah, yeah,
go ahead, Jack, I'm sorry. It is such Honestly, it's
(18:17):
such a massive problem. It's sensationalizedin ninety percent of what they say is
relatively not true, even how theycommunicate mechanics, even their communication in the
afterlife. And also let's let's talkabout this, rob Let's do you guys
that are listening out there. Thereis not a electronic or app or any
(18:41):
instrument out there that can tell youa ghost exists. Every single paranormal instrument
there is out there, ladies andgentlemen, measures fluctuations in the environment.
It can only give you a measurementof what is happening and give you a
method, you know, an ideaof something that you need to investigate more.
(19:03):
There is nothing out there that cantell you ghosts exist on your app,
iPhone or anywhere else. It requiresa lot more than that. Maybe
I hope that happens, but Idon't see it. Jack, what is
your opinion then, of EVPs.I am very skeptically EVPs, because you
know, if there's an EVP thatis going to blow my mind. I
(19:26):
haven't come across it yet. Ithink I don't. I'm not an expert
on it, and I know thatthere's many other experts beyond me that can
probably blind me with the science ofit. But I haven't seen any I
haven't heard anything that's blowing my mind. I often think of what they come
out with is gobbledegook, and itdoesn't make much sense, and you can
make it sound it's like paradolia.Some of the things that we see,
(19:49):
we create images in them, andI think we do that with our auditory
senses as well. So to thisday, I haven't seen anything out there,
other and maybe some serious polar Geeseinvestigation cases where there has been potentially
very clear, audible things that warrantinvestigation, but nothing that proves it.
(20:10):
So I'm very skeptical of the EVPphenomena. Until there's more evidence from it,
will I will still be skeptical.In your opinion, Jock, where
is the most amount of evidence thathas been accumulated in any one field of
the paranormal. I would have tosay it's got to be on after life
(20:30):
research in terms of reincarnation, andI would say after life research into communication.
On the other side, with verifiableevidence, I think there's more exciting
research to be had. There's nota lot of research in psychometry, and
I think that's the potential for exploration. I know that the University of Georgia,
(20:56):
Christine Simmons mur has been doing someresearch of that, but there's very
very little research in that type offield ice, so I think we need
to do more with also trans andspontaneous phenomena. I know there's some there's
some researchers in Brazil that are kindof working on that now and they're working
on doing spontaneous phenomena and lighted situations. So that's exciting. So I think
(21:22):
after life and intelligent communication from theother side, we verifiable evidence has probably
got the most evidence, and Ithink in parapsychology field has to be reincarnation.
Reincarnation has probably got the strongest evidencethat we've seen today. Jock,
you mentioned psychometry a few moments ago. Could you explain to our audience what
psychometry is. So psychometry, Imean psychometry comes from the two words in
(21:47):
Latin psych mean and so and metrimean and measure, and it is a
measurement of energy. So, forinstance, with psychometry, people who are
sensitive are able to hold an objectand tune it in the vibry to that
object and then perhaps get information fromthat get and be able to relay that
information and then to corroborate to utilizingtheir senses of clairvoyance, clear audience,
(22:10):
clear sentering, and that kind ofthing. So we have to understand that,
you know, there's a stone tapetheory that's out there where energy gets
imprinted into buildings and rocks and thingslike that, and we have residual energy
that plays. And so someone whocan psychometrize, maybe you know, being
in an area, can pick upthe vibrations of that area or the energy
(22:32):
that's been imprinted into an object andthen be able to read that. And
I also believe that psychometry with agifted individual can be a precursor and a
catalyst to connection to the other side, to start maybe communicating to get more
verifiable evidence. So we're talking aboutpicking up energetic vibrations in objects from in
(22:53):
psychometrizing them. Jack, Why doyou think that some people can tune into
these various frequencies, whether it's Claireaudience or Claire scent, hint, or
or even the ability to seem togo back and forward in time in order
to do some of these very questionablepsychic psychic experiences as well as psychic predictions.
(23:19):
How why is it some people cando this and other people can't.
Well, it's great role because Ihave I have a saying that I use
all the time, and it's andI say to people, just because you
said you could, just because youcan sing, doesn't mean you can sing.
I love it so so kind ofwhat I mean is that is that
(23:41):
you know, some person can singand sound like Pavarotti, or you know,
can sound like Andre Bacelli, andthe other person can sing and it
can't hold an out in a bucket, and he thinks he's the greatest singer
going, but it really is sotuned. So everybody in the planet can
sing, but some people can reallycan really master that. And so whilst
(24:03):
we all have an ability to beable to capitalize on our energy and capitalize
on our own spirit, some peopleare more adept at things than others,
and that could be through their experiencesand also through transformational experiences. So some
people can have, you know,transformations that come from trauma and that can
(24:25):
impact the way that their psychic facultiesstart to arise up in them. So,
you know, and it's the samething as you and I can play
chop sticks on the piano, butyour daughter might be able to play mozap.
You know, she's more gifted.But we can still plut a tune
on the piano. Yeah, wellyou and I will have to go to
a puble one night and try that, pal That would be good. We
get the beer. About what startssinging from there? Is the paranormal feel
(24:52):
dangerous if you don't know what you'redoing, absolutely one hundred percent. And
I know people will hate me forthis, and I you know I I've
spoken about this in my book Barelythe Pathed many times. Yes, it
is, you know, because wedon't understand enough about the field and we're
still learning. And some people doget into problems because they let their ego
(25:15):
run riot. And you've got toremember that if if we do open up
to something that's out there that isa greater intelligence than us, and that
is a malevolent intelligence, you're goingup against something you can't necessarily deal with.
It's a lot more intelligent than youand I could be talking in the
realms of the demonic, on therealms of evil spirits, if you want
(25:37):
to put that down to playing facts. I mean, there's thousands and thousands
and thousands and millions for years onyou and you don't think that they've got
a mass intelligence beyond what you havein this material plane. I mean,
come on, and at the endof the day, the reality is that
evil exists in the world. Weonly need to look around and see evil
in the world. But the thingis something, it's necessary. We wouldn't
(26:00):
know good if we didn't know evil. We didn't know pain, if we
didn't no health. It's a necessarything. I've always believed, Jock,
that we live in a binary existence. You know, zero in one,
and you know the combinations of zero'sand one create our existence because for good,
(26:21):
like you said, there's evil leftright in out black white, and
the list goes on and on andon. So how do we how do
we take the knowledge we have rightnow, Jock and apply it to paranormal
the parapsychology to make it work better. I think what we've got to do
(26:45):
is to realize that it's not somethingthat's intrinsically apart from us. It's something
that's is a part of us,and that we only the same anime enforce
that animates the roads, that animatesthe wind to blow oh, animates us,
and animates the spirit world and animatesyou know, spirits. And when
(27:07):
we realize that, you know,we're not so far apart. We don't
need to start looking at ourselves assomething separate, but more of something that's
more attuned to that that exists inthe same connected flow of everything. I
think once we realize that, thenwe can maybe start to understand it better.
Then we can maybe understand who weare and what our place is within
(27:29):
this realm, and how we interactwith that energy and the power that we
inherently have. Most people don't realizethat their spiritual power is a lot more
than they can even consider that.It's a lot more that we don't even
use half of our mind power thatwe've got. So I think we need
to get we need to go backto basics, and we need to realize,
we need to get to understand whowe are in our place in the
(27:52):
world and realize that the paranormal isnormal, and that everything that exists around
us, you know, from thesame anime and forced it is creation.
All right, Stand by my friend, Stand by my friend. I've got
to take my break and x Onation. Our guest this hour is Jock
Brocas j O C K B RO C A S dot com or evidential
(28:15):
medium dot com. This is theXcell I'm Rob McConnell and we're coming to
you on your hometown radio, Classictwelve twenty from our broadcast center in studios
in Saint Catherine's, Ontario, Canada. If you'd like to send me an
email, it's very simple. Xonat Classic twelve twenty dot CA. Jock
and I return on the other sideof this break, donk Away, Amna
(29:10):
Jinz of Baro Queen a Baby UpstalesTa Cross Train Uma. Welcome back to
(29:45):
everyone. This is the excellent I'mRob McConnell and we are with you Monday
through Friday from ten pm Easter untilmidnight right here on Classic twelve twenty,
streamed around the world on Classic twelvetwenty dot CA. By the way,
you may have thought that was theRolling Stones singing Honky Tom Quoman, but
that was actually Jock and I thelast time we got together at a pub.
(30:10):
You're sounding good. You're sounding goodrole, Thank you. I love
the way that you play the guitar, just like Keith Richards practice practice.
You mentioned demons in the in theprevious segment. Are demons real or are
they a figment of our imagination imposedon us through the religious philosophies? Of
(30:30):
the world. Well, I wouldanswer that question is is the ear that
you breathe real but you can't seeit and without it you wouldn't exist.
So my answer with that is,yes, they are real. Have you
ever come across a demonic entity orsome unknown force that people could relate by
(31:00):
the movie The Exorcist, you know, and Linda Blairs had started spinning and
you know, the beds started jumpingup and down. Or is that the
sensationalistic aspects of Hollywood at their best. No to the Hollywood effects. But
yes, I have come across casesthat have malevolent intelligences that have gone beyond
(31:23):
the realm of science, and I'vehad experience of it direct myself. But
I will say that if people areout there and they think that, you
know, dealing with demons is somethingas easy, there's like The Exorcist and
they spin their heads around and vomitgreen pean, you know, green peace.
(31:45):
So that doesn't happen. That's forthe movies. But where you find
most of the battle will go onpsychologically in the mind, and then as
it spills out into phenomena that externalto the individual. You know, there
can be phenomena that happens in theimmediate environment that warrants investigation. But I've
(32:08):
had experiences myself, and some frighteningexperiences at that. And here's the thing,
someone who's actually dealt in that realmwon't always go out, won't normally
just go out and shout about itaround the rafters and talk about it and
utilize it like it's a famous thingto deal with or you know, hey,
you look at me. Because oneof the things I'll say, anybody
(32:30):
who has trod on that ah beenand felt it never ever forgets it,
and it kind of scars you.And it's not something you go out and
shout about and wear a badge ofhonor. So how did you deal with
it? You said that you hadpersonal experience? How did you How did
(32:52):
you? How did you beat yourdemon? So to speak? Purely prayer?
There's nothing that's going to be Youcan't run about with it. Like
I said in Deadly Departed, thatDeadly Departed, you can't run about with
a wool woof stick, and youcan't run about with sage and incense and
think that you're going to battle andmy levolent intelligence that is, you know,
(33:15):
trying to get at you or obsessyou in any way just by or
holding a crystal and think you're goingto banish them. I mean that,
I mean, that's for the movies. That's just you know, we're not
playing in witchcraft and things and hogwarksand stuff like that. You know,
that's this, it's just for entertainment. But really the only thing that can
(33:38):
seriously help you to deal with somethinglike that is the power of the is
divine power. And I put thatdown to prayer and knowing how to pray.
And it's not just about saying words, and it's about transformation of your
own spirit and being able to discern. That's that's one of the probably the
(33:59):
greatest if anybody can have, asthe power of discernment, to be able
to discern. How I dealt withit was purely through discernment and prayer,
prayer to who what kind of prayers. Well, one of the things is,
you know, like you're not goingto just say prayers. For instance,
a lot of people will say andour Father, hail Mary or and
(34:21):
they don't necessarily it doesn't necessarily doanything because there's no really divine vibration there.
Whatever words that you say in aprayer can just be said Gleebally,
You've got to bring your whole mind, your spirit, your soul, the
whole thing together, and that sometimesis mean is maybe bearing your fears and
(34:45):
bearing your soul to higher power andsurrendering. So it's not just about the
words that you say, it's aboutthe feeling, the emotion and bringing everything
together. I mean, I rememberat my time when I was going through
that experience. I mean I wason my knees trying my eyes out,
and the pain that I was feelingin my mind was terrible, and it
(35:12):
wasn't simple for me to just sayHail Mary and our Father. I really
had to go to the dark knightof the soul and find the spark inside
of me and really ignite that.And often it's at your lowest sebts that
you'll find the greatest light. Whatis the what is the power behind the
prayer? How does the the prayeractually get rid of the demon? You
(35:37):
know, come down to divine law, Rob, because you've got to You've
got to understand that, you know, we we have laws in this world
that you know, one state hasa different law or one one country has
a different law from and that's justman's laws. Man's laws really don't have
any power over you. Divine lawis how the world is, how the
(35:59):
universe opera. It's divine law.Like even an elevolent intelligence has to come
under divine law. It has there'sa relationship to divine law. And so
understanding the mechanics of divine law,understanding the relationship of these laws helps you
(36:19):
and able to be able to dealwith potential problems like that. And you've
got to remember that even a demoncomes under divine law. It can't just
break divine law and go and dowhatever it wants to do, and just
because then you'd have them roman aboutthe world and just taking over obsessing people
left, right and center. Itdoesn't happen. There is laws that put
(36:43):
around a place in the universe thatprotect us, and they're still substitute.
I mean, they still come underthe same laws that we come under.
The whole universe does. And soit's understanding the power of divine laws and
understanding the power of the divine authoritythat I think is one of the keys.
The divine law that you talk aboutis that the same divine law that
(37:08):
is in the different religious philosophies aroundthe world. Yeah, you know,
there's there's well, when it comesdown to understanding divine law, people will
say, there's a law reciprocation,there's a law cause and effect, and
there's and that that that's a wayof understanding it. But it can go
(37:29):
even deeper than that. So asa simple example, the law of karma
is the way that the universe operatesreally, you know, and if we
look at a world we're in,a world of duality is created by a
you know, a karmic law,and the law of you know, reciprocity
(37:57):
or the law of forgiveness, adivine law forgiveness. It can't operate without
any other laws. So it can'toperate without a camic law. It does.
None of these laws stand on theirown, so they all have a
relationship to each other. And whilstin a lot of I mean I try
to keep away from religion, butin a lot of spiritual texts, there's
an understanding of divine principles and divinelaws. The understand and how the interact
(38:24):
with each other and how I supposeit could be. Even if you take
it down to maybe molecular science andatoms and how you know when there's one
downward spin them and I'm not aphysicist, but it spins upwards and they
can be there's no space in time, there's a distance between them. So
(38:47):
there's there's a replica, there's athere's a relationship, there's an integral relationship
there between those two polarities, andso we understand that divine laws operate on
the same relationship. They need arelationship to each other in order to operate.
You know, we were talking aboutkarma, and karma is even talked
(39:10):
about in the Bible in the TenCommandments where it says doing to others as
you would have them doing to you, which is exactly the meaning of karma.
So why is it that people stillhaving caught on that there's a cause
and effect and if you're going todo something good, you know it works,
it comes back to you. Butif you do something bad, you
(39:32):
know it's going to come back toyou as well. And you know that,
you know, Rob that's a verysimplified way of looking at karma,
because everybody who looks at karma seesit, well, not everybody, but
many people look at it. Thestates. It's about what comes around goes
around. You know, you giveit, good you get back, and
good you give it back to youknow, that's just a simplified understanding the
karma. Karma goes so much deeperan actual fact, we don't exist without
(39:55):
karma. Karma is integral in everyaspect of our life and every thought,
in every action, and it goeseven beyond cause and effect. We only
exist because of the karmic work.And so, yes, we can understand
it from a simplified idea. Whatyou give out, you get back,
(40:15):
or you sow seeds and you getthem back, and that's mentioned in the
Bible as well. But karma ishow the universe operates. That's how we
only exist because we exist in ak a camic fuel. How can we
(40:36):
use karma or not use it?Well, yeah, use it. It
would be a good way of lookingat it. Is karma part of what
needs to be taught when it comesto the paranormal. Would you consider karma
to be one of the utmost lessonsthat we need to learn in order to
(40:57):
better understand the paranormal? I wouldthink karma could play I would think kara
could play a massive role in understandinga paranormal phenomena or or or let's say
a normal phenomena in the world ofhow we operate, how the universe operates,
because it operates on a karmic principle. It's not just as like I
(41:20):
said, it's not as simple aswhat you give out to get back.
So I think it's something we needto look at deeper into the causes and
effects, even within parapsychology and wherekarma is intertwined in that in that field
as well. And I would saythat anybody who's investigating the paranormal has to
(41:42):
understand the karma implications. There hasto be balance. And when we create
a wave and we have the upwardthe upward wave in a downward wave duality,
and it has to come into balanceand something that sort of balance has
to come in. There has tobe an element that brings that back and
(42:06):
that comic effect. So whatever youdo out there is going to have a
comic effect. You need to thinkabout what you're doing. So let's take
it for exist existing examples. Allright, I'm going to have to hold
you here for the example because Ihave to take her final break. Jock
Fascinating Topic, Fascinating Guests exonation ourguests this hours Jockbrocasts, Jockbrocast dot com
(42:29):
and evidential medium dot commerce websites.And you're listening to the Xon Radio show
right here on Classic twelve twenty,streamed around the world on Classic twelve twenty
dot CA. And if you'd liketo send me an email, love getting
your emails. Explanation Xon at Classictwelve twenty dot CA. And here's Jock
(42:50):
and I playing hockey talk woman thatyou may have thought was the Rolling Stones,
and well it really is. We'llbe back on the other side.
Don't go away, try to teamand Bob fail for rap beaming right of
(43:12):
cross a should every time I seeyour face if revis me are the places
(43:37):
we used to go? But allmy god is a phoneer crap. I'm
not reading like you're not going backanymore. I don't. I'm bake it
(44:01):
and welcome back. This is theexcellent I am Rob McConnell. And no,
that was not Jock Brocast singing.That was Ringo Star singing photograph.
And we're coming to you from thestudios and corporate offices of Classic twelve twenty
Classic twelve twenty dot CA. Jockfirst of all before we get back into
the meat of the interview. Thanksvery much for coming on the show tonight.
(44:22):
Means a lot. Over the years, you've been a great friend,
and I want to congratulate you onall that you're doing and wishing wish you
the very best of luck in yourcontinuing education in order to bring science and
stability to the world of the paranormal. Thank you, Rob, That means
a lot. Thank you, andit's honored to be on here again.
(44:43):
Well, it's not going to besuch a long time as it was before,
my friend, We're going to haveyou one quite often. Awesome.
Let's get back to karma. Giveme some examples, all right, So
let's let's talk about karma from aparanormal point of sure. It's say,
for instance, we have a famwho has been subjugated by a spiritual force
and that needs to be investigated andthere could be real phenomena there. We've
(45:07):
got to understand that that family issuffering psychologically. There's possibly psychosis involved,
there's possible mental imbalance involved. Weneed to be able to identify, you
know, the difference between what ispossibly a mental imbalance from a medical point
of view, or what has gota spiritual, a spiritual connotation to it.
So then we bring in and youknow, paranormal to get called in,
(45:30):
and all of a sudden, theparanormal teams so excited because they think
they've got they've got a case.And then what they do is is they
they immediately come in and say tothe family, you've got a demon and
it's starting to frighten a living dilatesout of them even more, but we
can help me deal with this.They're not even taking into consideration the caarmic
(45:51):
implications of what they're doing and howthere can be a massive imbalance and cause
even more mental anguish and possibly worsepsycho and they don't have any real way
of helping that family because they're sodriven by their own egos. They're so
driven by this whole sensational angle ofit. So I think we need to
(46:14):
have our paranormal investigators or panormal teamsidentify what are the potential kind of implications
of us, how we put thisacross to this family, and are we
actually going to end up destroying thatfamily. We don't have any evidence phenomena
being what they claim it is,and if we go in and start giving
(46:36):
them false information. What are wegoing to do to a family? What
are we going to do to them? What are the implications that could destroy
this family because of what we aresaying? Yeah, and I really believe
that there are a number of paranormalresearch teams out there that they honestly believe
in their hearts of hearts they're doingsomething good, which in reality, is
(46:59):
there causing undo problems with these families. Absolutely? Absolutely, And you've got
to think about how these families aresuffering any But you know, if I
ever get called into any potential cases, the first thing that's on my mind
is not the phenomena and what's happening. First thing that I want to know
about is how are the family coping, What are they going through? What
(47:22):
is the suffering in the level ofsuffering that they are going Let me start
from the au and then work towardsgoing towards understanding the phenomena. What may
or may not be happening when peoplewho were paranormal investigators or psychics or mediums,
when they try and bring people tothe other side go to the light.
(47:45):
Is that an actual thing or practicethat they can accomplish or is this
just part of the mumbo jumble ofthe paranormal. You know, it can
be a bit of both, becauseI always say, look, if you
don't have any evidence of anything,then don't say it. Because anybody can
(48:05):
sit down and say I'm feeling aspirit here and I'm going to send it
and they're like, oh, Isee a portal opening all they're gone,
and then yeah, that's it,And it can be a bit of a
placeble effect, but there's no evidencethere. I'm always looking for evidence,
and so I do think there's apower in being able to understand it from
a medium's point of view. IfI'm in a situation where I'm going to
(48:25):
try and help a spirit over tothe other side, I've got to realize,
rob that it ain't me that's doingit, right, I'm just a
conduit from the other side. I'mjust a telephone or I'm just going to
be a radio receiver and I'm goingto let someone else do the work.
So someone else on the other side, that spirit team, a spirit guy,
(48:47):
they're the ones that are doing thehard work. I'm not. I'm
just being the anchor and allowing itto operate through me. So these people
that go in and say I'm closingthe portal. I'm doing this, and
that's a little bit of the ego. It's not it's not it's not really
true. It's a bit of mumbojumbo. And so there has to be
an evidential thing around it. Therehas to be a pattern of evidence that
(49:10):
will that will prove that, andif if if phenomena stops after that,
then then obviously you know the jobhas been done. But just realize,
ladies and gentlemen, it ain't themedium that is doing it. It's it's
the team that they work with onthe other side. They're the ones that
are doing it. We don't havethe power to send them to the light.
(49:30):
We can just ask for a spiritualintervention and allow that divine law to
operate perfectly the way it should be, and the beings on the other side
that can actually work through us toanchor that and and take that being over
to the light. So we haveto be very careful. We really have
to be very careful what we claim. Jack and I know that you're very
(49:52):
interested in pursuing research into the afterlife. What do we have so far as
proof of the afterlife? When itcomes to claims being made by people that
they've gone to the other side,they have seen the light, they have
gone through the tunnel. Is thisreal or is this all hocus pocus?
(50:19):
Well, I'm going to I veryrarely ever spoke about this in the in
the public, and a lot ofpeople who claim they have NDEs sensationalized them
and we don't really have any evidence. And there's a few people in the
world that have actually had out ofbody experiences and has been tested scientifically,
(50:40):
like Alex Tannis, he was agreat person for that kind of thing as
well. I recently interviewed on myown podcast, Graham i'man sick in name,
but he's been tested. But there'sother people who have an NDEs and
have been able to verify the evidencethat been in a hospital and they can
verify evidence. I think we've gotto take that seriously. You know,
doctor Sampanam has been doing some reallygreat research on that side of things.
(51:05):
But here's the thing, Rob,I've had an nd and I never spoke
about it in a serious car accidentbefore my wedding, and I survived that
accident because I heard my father fromthe other side called my name, And
what actually happened then is the andI never came. It was written about
(51:28):
in a maxim many many many yearsago because of Woodham, but I never
went out and I never popularized itor anything I went through because I had
no real evidence of my experience,and people's end experiences are very personal to
them, yes, but when Ihad that experience, my whole life changed,
(51:51):
and my and my abilities and siteyou know, being psychic abilities and
connecting on the side that got stronger. That was a lot that changed.
And I only really brought this tothe FOE recently as part of the research
I was doing at university, becauseI had to open up and talk about
it. But my experiences were phenomenal. What I witnessed. You know,
(52:14):
I didn't see a massive tunnel oflight or anything else, but I was
connected to everything. There was abeing that took me out of that accident.
At the time, I witnessed everythingfrom above, the light that I
seen that was everywhere and surrounded allaround me. I knew that I was
safe. The only thing that broughtme back was known that my wife was
(52:34):
in the car, and you know, I could see the truck driver that
hit as I could see everything,my father, I believe was the one
that called the book called me.He had passed years before, and so
the voice that I heard was hisvoice that called my name, that made
me move and jump. Before Iknew it, I was out of my
body. I felt nothing from theaccident because I was taken from my body
(52:57):
and I was and I witnessed everythingfrom above and I was held in this
in these divine arms. I feellike this. I was just safe,
and there was a feeling of connectedto everything. There was no separation from
nothing, and that experience, Imean, there was a lot more to
it, but that experience for myNDE was transformative in every way. But
(53:24):
I had no evidence that I couldcome back other than certain things that happened
and being able to verify what youknow, the lorry driver did and how
the ambulance turned up with nobody actuallyphoning them because we were in the middle
of nowhere in the Scottish mountains andit was snowing. It was all very
weird. But it totally changed me, and I think everybody's those who have
(53:49):
had transformational experiences through NDEs, itchanges them in a profound way. And
I think there's a lot more researchthat we need to do into the NDE
experience, and we don't, andwe have to get to the point.
We can't just accept everybody is sayingI've had an ND because you've got no
proof of what I've had, andit's very personal to me. I kept
very quiet for many, many minuteyears. There has to be more vetting
(54:13):
of all the claims of the paranormalWe just absolutely you just can't take everything
at face value anymore. You can'tbecause you could have an ND now and
just make it up in your headand then tell me what. But there
has to be some formal We haveto vet it because there's a lot of
people that claim ends that are probablynot real, but there's a lot of
people that have and it's transformed themin tremendous ways. And I think transformation
(54:37):
is probably one of the key ingredientsI would say that verifies maybe that experience.
Jock, we've got about two minutesleft. First of all, thanks
very much for coming on the show. All was great pleasure talking to you
and to you and your family thevery best of the new year. But
i'd like to hear your final thoughts, your wisdom that you'd like to share
(54:58):
with the X or nation in thenext and a half, Oh, well
I was. I would say,okay, that everybody who is out there
has all paranormal abilities inherent inside ofthem, and that I want you to
think about the paranormal something is notexternal to you, but something that is
(55:22):
part of you, and it needsto be integrated into your life more than
feared or refuted. And maybe ifyou integrate this into your life as part
of your normal makeup, maybe,just maybe your life is going to change
(55:42):
for the better because you have adivine power inherent within you that you probably
don't even know how to use.Probably what's next for you, Jack?
What are you going to be upto in the next Well, I've got
loads of studying, the loads ofresets to do. I'll be finishing my
masters, I'll be moving on toPhD. I will be writing a new
(56:05):
book, and I will be bringingout a new magazine called Partawise, which
will distill the academic information to aneasier format for the Lake community to get
the teeth into and understand. You'regoing to be one busy man, And
I want to thank you very muchfor joining us, Jock, always a
great pleasure. Let our listeners knowhow they can find out more about you.
(56:25):
Connect with me on my website jobbrokersdot com, orevidentialmedium dot com,
or get me on Instagram if youwant to ask me a question, it's
just at Spiritual Medium and that's probablythe fastest place that I'll respond in until
the next time we meet, myfriend, take care of yourself, and
like I said, regards to youand the family and the happy know you're
to you Wall and to you guysand to all your family. Rob.
(56:47):
That was great being back on.I look forward to speaking to you against
soon. You got it, myfriend. Take care of yourself. Jack,
God bless blad bless you too.Path All right, explanation. Jack
Broca has been my guest to thishour. Coming up the other side of
the news at the top of thehour right here on the xpone, we're
going to be talking more about theparanormal. My guest is Randal Smith,
(57:08):
and Randall is in Huntington, Indiana. Wow. The paranormal two hours every
night, Monday through Friday, righthere on Classic twelve twenty Hmmm. A
place where people dare to believe yep, and place where people dare to be
heard. That's what we're all aboutand I'll be back on the other side
of this commercial break as we continuefrom our broadcast center and studios on your
(57:31):
hometown radio, Classic twelve twenty,streaming around the world on Classic twelve twenty dot CA
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