Gordie Chiesa on Jazz offseason possibilities, a look at NBA free agency + more

Gordie joins James and Leif to talk what the Jazz are up to in the NBA Offseason, NBA Free Agency, gives his list of the 15 greatest all around players in the NBA and more!

Episode Transcript

(00:21):
We're going along here, our oneof the midday show, James Peterson,
Leaf too Lean, and our everyone'sfavorite guests, the Great Gordy chiasa tune
it or cranking up some New Radicalsas you come in here, Gordie,
how you doing, James Leif I'mdoing well? Thanks, and it's good

(00:43):
to be here. Yeah. NewRadicals. Yeah, I know I'm sort
of old school, but they're reallya great group, only second to many
other groups back in the nineteen seventies, eighties, nineties and yesteryear two thousand.
Yeah, long time ago. Absolutely, we're glad to have you in.

(01:06):
We will, we want to wewant to talk about NBA Draft with
you. You were on our livedraft show. We we haven't an issue
with the headphones. Guys. No, all good, Okay, I'm beaging
to go and uh the draft showwas it was amazing and uh, yeah,
you you were. I was sayingin the first segment, Gordon,

(01:27):
you were in in top form onthat draft show. You always are,
but you you took it to anotherlevel last Wednesday night. I feel like
I was consulting to I was consultingwith my colleague Leaf. I was gonna
sol Leaf for the last four orfive months. So I've been built in.
Uh a person Leaf next to mehere that knows the draft also to

(01:48):
say the least, and the draftagain it's it's promising and Jazz basketball.
They did a good job of gettingthe players that they need as to go
forward, and you'll like their talentnow as always, Cody Williams is a
young guy picking number ten and hewill absolutely contribute. I love his all

(02:08):
around game and I love how hecan create off the dribble. Isaiah Khller
Collier is a tremendous young talent.And then Philipowski meaning Kyle. He's a
stretch five that for some bad reasonhe slipped in the draft, but it's
good for the Jazz. Last yearslipped in the draft of Leaf and James

(02:30):
was Cam Whitmore. This year wasKyle Philipowski. And he can make shots,
and he's skilled and just very simpleat basketball terms. He's really good
as far as having the ball outin perimeter. Yeah, he will contribute
right away. Yeah, and Leaf. I think you can make an argument
that Isaiah Collier slipped a little bittoo for the Jazz, so they got

(02:50):
two really good value picks. Theend of the first round started the second
round, right, Yeah, theCallier pick I think was the best value
of the entire draft. Like,if you were to look at, Hey,
this guy's the number one recruit inhis high school class and he fell
to twenty nine, you'd think theissues were far more severe. Maybe they
were attitude issues, maybe he wasthe complete inept shooter or something like that.
Well, call youer. If youlook at his spot of numbers,

(03:13):
they're not very good, but theyare better than the likes of Ron Holland,
they're better than the likes of StefanCastle who went number four and Gordy
and I very much like. Butthis guy went twenty nine, and his
numbers are better than those with shootingissues that went in the lottery. His
passing issues, turnovers, spacing,all these things. At the USC was
a pretty dysfunctional program. And maybein probably some shots selection issues with Callier

(03:35):
two, right, and then justbeing a better decision maker in general,
Yes, But then you look onthe flip side, he has an inate
ability to put pressure on the rimthat I think is probably the best of
anyone in the entire draft. Idon't think he's amazing as a shooter,
I don't think he's amazing as apoint guard, but he gets the rim
and he creates havoc. You putNBA spacing and that type of guy who
gets there and he has the rightpassing reads. I think he's one of

(03:58):
the better passers in this draft.Didn't bear out in terms of assists because
his team couldn't shoot, and Idon't think he was a great decision maker
at times because he put too muchpressure on himself. But he also put
that much pressure on the defense,and you got that guy at twenty nine.
I had am number twelve on mybig board. Wow. And I
had Cody Williams number five and hewent number ten obviously, so I thought
the Jazz did great. I'm lessof a fan of Kyle Philipowski, but

(04:19):
at thirty two, I'm not goingto argue with the value there. I
just wouldn't have wanted him in thefirst round. Yeah, yeah, so
great great draft coverage last week withGordy, Bill and Spence. We'll talk
a little bit more about the Jazz'sdraft and the NBA Draft as a whole,
NBA free agency as well. WithGordy here and starting to hear some
more legitimate Lowry markin and trade rumors. Gordy, what's your thoughts, first

(04:42):
off, just at the thought ofthe Jazz maybe seeming more likely that there
might be a deal here. There'sit still feels pretty likely he's back,
but it's it's more likely than everthat it feels like that he might be
on the move. Yeah, itmight be in a move. The question
is you get almost what value getback for him because he's highly coveted.
So here's an example that there's norush for the Jazz right now to trade

(05:05):
him. So they have to getthe best deal for them, whether it's
a player that can future out,really can perform well, and get other
assets for the draft because next yeardraft's going to be a tremendous vehicle for
teams that get better. But let'slet's let's pause for one second. Would
you lack a guy that averaged twentythree point two points per game, shot

(05:28):
forty eight percent from the field,thirty nine to nine, from three eighty
nine to nine, from the foulline, eight point two boards a game,
and to assist where he assigned Ijust described Larry Marketing, and so
he's being almost criticized because he's anold guy at age twenty seven. What

(05:49):
he is right now on a playoffteam, whether it's the Jazz or someone
else, He's the third best playeron a fifty something win team that when
he play that stretch five is thedefensive player is guarding him have a difficult
time. So if wen Beyonber andchreed Holmgrim were right on perimeter guarding Larry

(06:12):
Marketing, I lean towards Larry Marketingmajority of the time, catch and pop,
put it in your face, orcatch it go drive and dunk in
your noggin. However, the Jazzlost twenty five or the last thirty games
last season and not again. Marketingmissed twenty seven game because of the injury,
and so the Jazz are starting over. And I have no problem with

(06:35):
that, but Marketing, it's hardto replace him. So I'm gonna go,
I'm gonna pause for a second,and that don't do it right now,
and wait until reassess in early February. Reassess again the trading deadline where
you might get more value for him, and you'll know your team a lot
better. But the Jazz are playingfor the future, and the future is

(06:59):
very bright because of so many guysnext year in the draft. So here's
the top three in the draft intwenty twenty five, because when we talk
about the Jazz, we'll talk aboutthe draft. Number three should be a
Dylan Harper, a combo guard outof New Jersey at of don Bosco High
School. And they know the coachfor the last fifty years, to say
the least. And that's Ron Harper'sson number two when he's going to Rutgers,

(07:20):
of all people, a spelling smallfold going to Rutgers. Also,
VI, your Georgia should be eithertwo, either two or three in the
draft. And Cooper Flagg, thesix to nine guy that plays defense like
Carolinko but can shoot unbelievable. He'llbe a freshman at Duke. And let's
not think also the young Russian guythat's going to be yu IgA Demon going

(07:43):
to BYU shall be in the topten. And so it's a bat it's
a batter draft. So that's whothe Jazz are gonna play for guys like
that next season. But in themeantime, it's this year. And again,
as always, what is the messaging. See wherever I go in uh
in this area, people ask me, Yo, Gordy what's up with the

(08:03):
jazz? Just like that. WhereverI go, literally ten times a day
they asked me about that Jets.That's exactly right, and that street talk
as far as asking me, andI say to them that the Jets have
some good young talent. Now,if you're Collin Sexon and if you're John
Collins and you'll Walker kess this rebuildingstuff, you don't want to hear that.

(08:24):
You do not want to hear thatI want to play, Jordan Clarkson,
I want to play. And sothat's what it gets iffy right now?
How do you message it? Howdo you how do you transform your
team into being a contender? Andremember the West is loaded, so it's
so hard. So you might getbetter. You have to tear it down
to get better. But doesn't meanyou're gonna be as good as you think

(08:45):
you can be, because you remember, you're gonna make a narrative over the
last X amount of years. DetroitPistons and as Charlotte Hornets are always your
building, and the Washington Wizards thoseguys are always your building for the last
x amount of years. So arethe jazz those guys or the jazz the
thunder who've been who've been sensational thelast four years. As far as building

(09:07):
their roster, however, you rememberthat's not forget their best player. That's
first you will MBA. They tradedfor j Jullis Alexander on the Pull George
trade, and so they drafted absolutelywisely. And by the way, lou
Dort, who's a big part oftheir group, as far as the fifth
starter, was undrafted. So it'sa combination of everything. You've got to

(09:28):
draft the right guys and fast tracktheir development by playing time. I just
just have a follow up on somethingyou said a little bit earlier, Gordy,
when you said when you said keepkeep lowry and reevaluate the trade deadline,
but then you also talked about justhow loaded the top of this next
draft will be and how deep inpotential stars this next draft will be.

(09:52):
So are you are you in favorof Danny Aings and Justin Xanak doing the
same thing they've done the last coupleof years, seeing how good they can
be in the first half of theseason, then kind of then then at
the trade deadline, reevaluating and maybepivoting towards getting as high a draft pick
as they can, because honestly,I feel like this is an opportunity to
maybe start the season at it notnot as bad as you can be,

(10:16):
but with the goal of, hey, let's try to get at the top
of this draft, rather than thandoing that halfway through at the trade deadline.
I agree with you exactly. Soyou're gonna, if you're gonna build
for the future, start from dayone as far as play the young guys
right now and so that so thenthere'll be less chemistry for the Jazz,
but Marketing playing. So if you'regonna play, if you're gonna play anybody

(10:37):
as often play Larry Marketing to keephis trade value, but play the young
guys. In other words, theseare the six young guys on the Jazz,
the three last year and the threethis year. If you've got to
start many of them, and ifnot start him be the first guy in
the game, and this in theend of the first quarter, to start

(11:00):
the second quarter. And then mostof all, give them the ball.
You see Kalia give them the ball. In other words, in a second
the second unit, just for thenarrative, it's just for the discussion.
Is that he gets the ball inthe second quarter and he plays with the
ball to make to make shots forhimself or kick it out through the corner
or shortcut a love spacing. Sobut I would play Larry Marketing because he

(11:22):
would keep you competitive during the game. But the rebel is starting. Well,
here's a question for you. Then, Gordy, you got to you
gotta end up in the top fiveto get those guys. And I understand
the Hawks got Lucky, jumped thelottery, he got to number one.
How how good of an offer wouldyou have to consider for Lowry? Like,
what does an offer that comes inthe next few days have to look

(11:46):
like for you to consider Lowry?And then alternatively, if Lowry is on
the team, does it just takeplaying the six young guys so much that
the Jazz are bad enough to bethere? Or and does Lowry get frustrated?
You've managed the egos of basketball,You've been in the front office as
well as a coach. And ifI'm Lowry Marketing, I'm a competitor.
I'd be pretty annoyed that the teamis going backwards and I'm still there.

(12:07):
Does like how do you manage that? And then obviously the first question is
what type of package does it take? To sway the Jazz front office to
part with a guy like Lowry Markinthat, like you mentioned, along with
all these sets, he's also sevenfeet tall. Like that's probably the greatest
asset he's got at all those shootingNumbers's seven feet tall, moves like a
small forward, has prototypical center size. So what it would take. It
would take three or minimum three Frostround draft picks minimum and maybe a second

(12:35):
round and a player, a playeroff the bench to make the money work.
So that's what it would do.Yeah, three Frost round picks future
and again possibly a second round downyou know, twenty twenty nine pick a
year and maybe a player would Andthen I want to ask you this because
the Warriors have been the team thatis in the latest rumors that they want

(12:56):
to try to trade for Lowry Markinand if and Spence was really good on
this yesterday, bringing up on hisshow The Drive from two to six here
on ESPN seven hundred ninety two oneFM, he said, yeah, you
get kaminga who could be who lookslike a guy who could be a potential
star in this league the way heplayed at the end of last season.

(13:18):
You get maybe a Moses Moody,who could be that bench player you're talking
about, Gordy, who's who lookslike he still has some potential to be
an NBA rotation player on a goodteam. And then you get three picks.
But are those picks those picks willprobably be with with Lowry and Steph
and Draymond, even without Klay Thompsonwho's going to the Mavericks, those picks
are not going to be that highin the lottery. Those won't be lottery

(13:41):
picks probably, those are going tobe probably at the lowest fifteen to twenty,
probably even into the twenties. Right, So, when if you're Danny
Ainge and you're considering these trades,you're also thinking about what the potential quality
of these picks will be, Right, You're not just going, Hey,
three picks from the Warriors is thesame was three picks from the Wizards.
No, it's not absolutely, Andso that's that's absolutely the balancing act.

(14:05):
That's why is that that's why youhave to try to get those picks later
on as far as the end ofthe end of this decadees like like they
tried to do with Minnesota, verymuch a right Minnesota and Cleveland very much.
So the Jazz is trying to getthe top five picks and next year
as far as being in the topfive to have to win, probably just
guestimating. Went between nineteen to twentyfour games, roughly nineteen to twenty four

(14:33):
sounds about right. San Antonio Spurs, for reference, got twenty two wins
and they were the fourth pick.So I think they were the third best
odds four third best odds. Yes, yeah, so leave here was right,
Yeah, here was the standings.Pistons were fourteen and sixty eight,
Wizards were fifteen and sixty seven.One it's twenty one and sixty one,

(14:56):
Trailblazer is twenty one and sixty one, and the Spurs sixty and Leaf mentioned
about the Hawks, it was aluck. It was a beautiful them.
It was a beautiful day. Theygot the first pick. There were thirty
six and forty six, but thisyear the first pick. The first pick
is a good player, but wedon't know if he has a knockout unbelievable
talent and killer instinct. We don'tknow that yet because it's he's still a

(15:20):
work in progress, and he's aFrenchman. And we'll sell all plays out,
but next year, these kids areThese kids are absolutely more talented.
And again you're picking in the topfive. Usually speaking, that talent prevails,
so you're picking the top five thatguy. Two of those five guys
should be All Stars very soon.And if the world's perfect, the world

(15:46):
not the world's the world is round, not flat, that guy could be
a franchise player. Should be goahead, Leaf and then we'll and then
we'll we'll go to our first breakhere with Cordy back, and I would
argue that Zachary Reesa, I thinkit's unlikely he's ever going to be an
All Star. And I'm not tryingto be overly critical, but that's the
number one pick this year. Iwould argue that a guy we haven't mentioned,

(16:07):
like Nolan Troure, a Frenchman justjust going countryman to countryman, is
already a better player than what Rescheis, and he's the fourth or fifth
best player in next year's class.So that's why I truly believe the Jazz
have to make the decision sooner thanwhat Gordy mentioned. And obviously I'll defer
to Gordyon basketball knowledge one thousand percentof the time, but I think that
There's something to be said for thisweekend being a time to pounce on the

(16:32):
offers because mckel Bridges, who Ithink is a comparable player to Lowry Markingham,
went to the Knicks and the Knickspaid a ton of picks like that
was four first round picks. Thatwas a ton to hemorrhage away for a
player that's twenty seven, has neverbeen an All Star. In mckel Bridges,
Lowery's been an All Star, averagessimilar amount of points to Bridges,
not quite the defender of the Bridgesis I think the Jazz need to pounce

(16:52):
and try to get some sort ofoffer that is similar, if not better
than what the Knicks provided for mcklbridges. And also it provides a clear
direction as opposed to going ten andthree when when Benyama is available to start
the year or win nineteen of twentysix games like the Jazz did this year,
only to finish the year with theworst record through the past thirty of
the final thirty games. So Ithink the Jazz direction is most clear if

(17:17):
they pounced. Now, yes,you could accelerate Lowry's in terms of his
asking price. You could probably geteven a little more if he has an
All Star season, but I thinkit's difficult to have an all Star season
well frustrated with the direction internally,and I think Lowry, though he's stoic,
though he likes Utah, I thinkit's hard to be happy with the
direction if you're the franchise's core pieceand you haven't had direction. So I

(17:37):
would pounce sooner rather than later.In the team that I would throw out
there as the San Antonio Spurs.Yes they have a franchise piece, and
yes they're going to be good soon. Yes they took Chris Paul, but
they just have the number four pickStephan Castle. They made a trade to
get Minnesota's picks in the twenty thirtyone, so you could get one in
the next decade. Like Gordy justalluded to, you could still get picks
from the twenty twenty five because theSpurs have a boatload of picks that they've

(17:59):
acquired from other teams while selling offsome of their previously very good players.
So that's the team I would lookfor. I think the Jazz need to
pount sooner rather than later. Yeah, and it'll be definitely something that'll be
interesting to follow. We'll see inthe coming days if these rumors start to
accelerate and Lowry Markinen truly is onthe move. For now, he is

(18:21):
a jazz man still. And onething we know for sure is Danny Aine
just going to look for a reallygood deal to make, and if he
thinks it's a deal that he wins, he's gonna make that deal, no
matter who it is. He doesn't. He doesn't He makes those deals if
he thinks he wins the deal,no matter who is on the block.
He doesn't put emotion in or orsentimental sentimentality into any of that. So

(18:44):
certainly something to watch here as thedays go along. Here in the beginning,
really the beginning of the NBA offseason, we will continue our conversation with
Gordy on NBA free agency, NBADraft and more. Here. Gordy's with
us till twelve thirty, so excitedto continue to have him on. We'll
have his list as well before weset him loose here on the midday Show

(19:07):
James Peterson, leave Tueen going andtell two here on Utah's number one sports
talking home of the UTESPN seven hundredand Hungry, another Gordy favorite, Come

(19:33):
and get your love Redbone. Whenyou hear those kind of songs, you
know who's in studio with us.It's the Great Gordy Chiz, a former
Utah Jazz assistant coach, front officeman for number and coach for a number
of other teams college basketball ranks aswell. Talking NBA Utah Jazz, we
talked a lot about the draft.Just now I want to talk more about
free agency. We're gonna do areal short segment here like we normally do

(19:57):
to end the hour, and thenwe'll talk a whole lot more free agency
than the next segment until about twelvethirty. So for this one, Gordy,
maybe just you say you got alist of your top five, the
top five teams in free agency andhow they've done, what they've done in
freegency so far? Right, maybewhat's preview our free agency talk with your

(20:18):
list there? Okay, number numberfive as far as is the Celts.
All right, before I say thenames for the Knicks, three, the
MAVs, two the seventy six ers, and one the thunder just visualize those
teams of who they got and alsowho they didn't lose. Yeah, that's

(20:41):
a factor of it also, Soit's interesting free agency is nothing like it.
You know, I always talk aboutit is that you get younger by
the draft and more talent, butyou get better by free agency and trades.
So and the better teams do bothwell consistently. Yeah, And that's
the catch where consistently the ability forfor teams to keep every year adding players

(21:07):
or signing signing we signed your ownplayers for for smart contracts. Absolutely,
and that's absolutely what what the betterteams do. And those second round picks,
if they play well as far asrotation players or even starters, they
can't catch up as far as theirvalue economically until that's until their third contract.

(21:30):
Yeah, definitely, I agree withyou there. And the team historically
that comes to mind, that's that'sdone. Teams that have done really well
in all three phases, as yousaid in team building, and I think
about the San Antonio Spurs and theirdynasty and their dynastic run. I think
about the Warriors recently and their recentdynasty. I mean, who do I

(21:53):
wonder, Gordy, do you havea do you have a list of teams
historically that have been best at allthree or maybe maybe off top of your
head, maybe who who else?Can you think of historically that were that
have been really good, had reallygood runs in all three Lakers. Yeah,
Lakers absolutely by retaining their players,star players and free agency, getting

(22:15):
those guys to go there and addingpieces to it. As far as the
role players that have played extremely well, Robert Horry, Rick Fox, guys
like that are absolutely, Derek Fisher, those players are a huge part of
them winning, especially when the starplayers are being double teamed in playoff games.
So whether it was Kobe or whetherShock Shack in the mid block and

(22:36):
Kobe out on perimeter, that ballis swung swung on perimeter, those guys
had to make open jump shots andthat was that was just quickly. That
was the MAVs downfall this season.When they double team Kyrie and when they
double teamed uh out on perimeter,Luca Dontege, they couldn't make a consistent
outside shot and that became a hugefactor of what was going on. And

(22:59):
that that's why that the Mavericks signedClay Thompson because he shot forty one point
eight from three and open three pointshot attempts this past season. The MAVs
shot as a team in the NBAFinals with open threes James and Leaf twenty
nine point seven percent. So theyadded Clay Thompson because the way the team

(23:22):
is structured with their elite players,that they can when the balls swung to
Clay Thompson and klay'son, Clay's notgonna be a two guard, He's gonna
play a small forward. He's gonnareplace Derek Jones, not as a defensive
player, but as more of ashooter. And so they made that value
judgment the MAVs that that's the oneto do because it's very frustrating in the
NBA finals when you have an openshot and your floormates can't what consistently make

(23:47):
them, and that in the selfpoint of view, James and Leaf,
that was the opposite. So PeytonPritchard, who's basically under talented just in
a big picture of things, buthe's an overachiever to his credit, makes
open jump shots. And so SamHauser, Yeah, and so Sam Houses
undrafted, suddenly he's averaging what sevenpoints seven points per game in the NBA

(24:07):
playoff, especially in the finals,where the Bulls comes to him, it
makes the shot. And then addto Drew Holliday, who's a tremendous all
around player and Derek White, who'sa tremendous all around player. When the
ball came to those guys, theywere they were making shots and plays and
stealing. That's what That's what theCeltic was a champion. Al Horford's become
quite the corner three assassin himself theselast couple of years. Yeah, versus

(24:32):
heavy lifting. So when al Horfordplayed for the for the Atlanta Hawks and
other teams, he was heavy lifting. Now again, at age thirty seven,
he's on a team where he's theperfect fit for what they need.
And so brazingis got a was rejuvenatedafter this was his fourteen with the Celtics,
and then he got hurt in theplayoffs before that, but he had

(24:52):
tremendous season. So al Horfer wasable to do a lot of good things
without the mental part of it.So now the mental parts all on a
Jason Tatum and Jail and Brown.Absolutely, we do have to head to
a quick break. We'll have anotherhalf hour or so with Gordy here.
We're gonna dive much more deeper intothe league at large in free agency coming

(25:14):
up on the other side. Aswe start hour two of the midday show
James Peterson leave two. Leen Gordychias is still with us for another half
hour in studio here on Utah numberone Sports Talk ESPN seven hundred and net.
Last segment with Gordy. James Petersonleave two, Leen Gordy chiasa in

(25:40):
studio. Love it when Gordy's herewith us. We're talking NBA. We
talked a lot about draft already.We previewed kind of our our free more
free agency heavy segment here with Gordy. Gordy, give us that list again
that you had of the teams thebest five teams in the NBA was the
best five teams in the NBA.Threw this, thus far in free agency

(26:00):
are the best five teams as they'vewhat they've done in free agency. No,
it's a little bit both it's freeagency and also an element of the
draft. Okay, so five ofthe Celtics. Remember the Celts World champions
they played absolutely tremendous. They bringthey're bringing almost everyone back. He got
that right. So they they resignedJason Tatum, they re signed them,

(26:22):
They resigned Derek White with the extension, and then they added Luke the Public.
They re signed Luke Cornette, who'sa valuable tenth man. Again,
I keep making the way with that'sthe guy's ceiling. So Luke Cornette as
the tenth man who has been effective. So Tatum they give him three hundred
and fifteen million with the extension,and then Derek White won sixty one with

(26:45):
the extension. So those guys aregoing no place. So that they so
they did an underrated job where theyhad to do it, and they did
it as the fifth best offseason Knickerbocker'sbut kel bridges see again the Knicks.
The Knicks are trying to chase theseventy six ers now and they're trying to
chase the Celtics. So who wouldto say if Jalen Brunson doesn't get hurt,

(27:10):
and og and Andoba doesn't get hurtin the playoffs doesn't get hurt,
who's to say that the Celts wouldbe that this dominant and that that that
in the Knicks world room. That'swhat they're saying right now, that they
think they because they play defense thatalso so do the Celts. I get
it. So it's gonna be fascinating. So with with the Knickerbockers, they

(27:30):
had mckel Bridges, who is atremendous all around player. Did the overpay
as far as given the assets away, probably, but their window right now
is what two to three years thewindow, and so they added him right
now. They re signed og Anernobi, who's a two way player, all
right, and then they resigned theJeremy Simms, who's a again tenth eleventh

(27:55):
man. But in Nickobacker basketball,they think that they can have enough defensive
proudness to slow down the two bookendsof the Celtics. So with Jalen Bronson
and now with Michel Bridges, DanteGivincenzo Julius Randall, who probably they would
like to trade if they can finda partner they can free up some of

(28:15):
that money. So Nick's had agood off season as far as the fourth
best, the third best off seasonis the MAVs Klay Thompson you mentioned earlier
a few minutes ago, knockdown shooter. He's getting a new lease on life.
He's thirty four years is he thirtyfour years young or thirty four years

(28:37):
old? It's like, you knowwhat that reminds me of? That's that
reminds me of the way Will Hardytried to tried to manage Mike Conley for
the first half of his first season. He told him, hey, we're
both the same age. Everyone thinksI'm young, everyone thinks you're old,
but we're both the same age.He tried to play that kind of help
him feel younger by by trying tocompare that, so were you So yeah,

(28:59):
Mike Conley ended up being thirty fiveyears thirty four to thirty five years
young. We'll see if Kay Thompsonis thirty four years young or thirty four
years old. I love that,Yeah, and especially in that in the
role now, So again, don'tpitch your clay right now. As far
as him with the Warriors back intwo thousand and fifteen, sixteen, seventeen,
eighteen nineteen before he got hurt,he remember he missed two years,
missed two years, and so heplayed. He with the Warriors for thirteen

(29:22):
years. So now the question isemotionally, you go from your team that
drafted you have the thirteen years forMBA championships. Now you go through the
MAVs. H by the way,will they like me? Will I fit
in there? And the answer isboth those star players are pass happy and
so he'll do well there. Defensively, he's slightly slipping, but they made
a value judgment that they needed shootingmore than the defense. He also added

(29:48):
Najie Marshall all right, who willhelp them as far as defensively small forward
hybrid, and then more importantly DerekLively. They take another year of growth
and Daniel Gaffit and PJ. Washingtonanother year in this quote the system.
So they think that they could bevery, very talented now number two best
offseason so far. That could changea week from now. The Philadelphia seventy

(30:11):
six ers MB is a major talentwho's been hurt back to back years that
has set him back. But theyadd Paul George. Again, is the
narrative right now is Paul George?Is he thirty four years young or thirty
four years old? They gave himan incredible contract. The first two years
will be it will be team friendlyif they win. They also added Andre

(30:34):
Drummon, who who permittes play itas far as rebounder is solid, so
he will back up Joel Embiid.They had also added Eric Gordon, give
me the ball off the bench,he can make open shots. And then
they drafted very wisely Jared McCain fromDuke as a young point guard, and
then they resigned the All Star franchiseplayer besides mb and Terry Smaxi. And

(31:00):
the question his name can Nick Nurse? Can he get that group together and
play as a unit. So theyhad they had the second best offseason so
far and number one is the ThunderAnd from Jazz point of view, that's
that's that's the blueprint as far asthat's where the Jazz would like to be
and they're in the same division.Alex Carusoe again, what he lacks as
far as shooting the ball accurately,he makes up an unbelievable defensive players.

(31:26):
He can guard one, two,three. How dare you try to post
me up in the game right now? Also, they added Isaiah Hartenstein,
who is a is a big guythat has talent outside. He's actually a
ball handler, so a lot oftime with dribble handoff action, he makes
that clean exchange on perimeter and thatgives the the the acceptor a chance to

(31:47):
watch go down the lane and godownhill. He's an offensive rebounder as far
as crashing the boards, he's whatthey need. The Thunder, the back
to back up home grin and theycan play both in the same lineup.
Also, they were signed Aaron Wigginsdefensive player. They were signed Isaiah Joe
knockdown shooter. They drafted Nikolai Toppich, who's not gonna play this year from

(32:08):
Serbia, so they're probably gonna havesurgery on ACL so they almost get called
a red shirt year. And thenthe Dylan Jones from Weavers State, who
again got a winning game. Andso the Thunder they have a cast of
characters that are very good and theyand they fit and for the next two

(32:30):
years, their salaries are still relativelytame. Then comes the hard part when
these guys with their second and thirdcontracts what they do. So they have
a lot of draft assets and theirtheir roster are tremendous and that they the
last four years, they have unbelievabledrafts as far as picking the right guy

(32:51):
and fast tracking them. So theThunder number one offseason? Are they your
favorites in the West based off ofthese I know they were young. I
think most people said they were tooyoung, myself included. I thought the
Maveris would win that series because ofversatility, So I guess too. Faceted
question here is are the Thunder thefavorites in the West. And do the
MAVs improve their chance in the Westbecause they added a marksman and they shot

(33:14):
thirty percent from three in the finalson open catch and shoot looks, or
do they lose what made them sodifficult to beat. I get for the
Timberwolves and for the Clippers and forthe Thunder in that defensive versatility with Derek
Jones Junior and Josh Green sent elsewhere. Yeah, Josh Green went to the
Charlotte Hornets. As far as partsthat freeway trade, No, the Thunder

(33:35):
are number one as far as sofar right now. I like the Timberwolves.
They got punched in the face inthe playoffs. What happens Leif and
James this thing called the playoffs.I had the privilege the coach one hundred
and forty nine playoff games. SoI'm saying his first hand, you get
punched in the gut, you getpunched in the face, it's forever in

(33:57):
your mind, and that from theplayer's point of view and the coach and
that that tells you what you haveto emphasize and what you have to correct.
And so the t Wolves, thoseguys got talent. They have talent,
and they added a lot of goodyoung young players and Anthony Edwards man,

(34:17):
oh man, what that guy cando. I like Grub Dillingham,
I like Tyren Shannon come off thebench for those guys. And so I
think it's going to be the tthe Thunder and the t Wolves and everyone
else are going to try to whata leaf froud them. I agree with
that. My one thing that I'mwatching with Minnesota, and I said this
on my show Sports Saturday ten tonoon every Saturday, right after they got

(34:44):
eliminated from the playoffs, I said, everyone's penciling in the t Wolves to
be bet, to be able toget back to where they were conference finals,
NBA Finals, contention, maybe NBAChampionship if everything goes right. But
a big red flag for me,Gordy, I wonder if you agree with
me on this. Anthony Edwards conditioninghe looked gassed way too early in that

(35:06):
NBA Finals, And I understand youalluded to just how hard it is to
play in the playoffs. Minutes goup to compared the regular season. So
it's gonna make you more tired becauseyou're playing more and and you're playing in
much more physicality. But my counterto that is we see guys like Jason
Tatum, we see other guys notlook quite as gasted as Anthony Edwards did

(35:30):
and able to look like they haveplenty more in the tank to lead their
teams farther than the conference finals.And Anthony Edwards just looked like he hit
a literal wall. I feel likeif he if he's gonna if he doesn't
take that seriously, I think wesaw the same thing with Luka Dancic.
By the way, quick aside withthe Mavericks. If those guys don't take

(35:50):
that conditioning seriously this offseason heading preparingfor this season, I think we might
see another playoff disappointment for both thoseteams. Okay, valid point. I'm
gonna add to that. If analternative is that Edwards. Oh, by
the way, he turns twenty threeon August fifth of this year, so
the age twenty two and here's aknockout punch, and that is very good.
Also, the t Wolves, Jamesand Leaf, they have really a

(36:14):
good all around team. They playgood defense, those guys. So Mike
Conley's aging absolutely, Anthony Edwards allstar, Jaden McDonald's very good defensively,
call Anthony Towns. He's the onethat might be a question mark where they
need more from him. They needthey need more offense defense consistently from him.
That's the other big concern, andmore of a concern than Anthony Edwards

(36:37):
conditioning, because at least you knowAnthony Edwards is gonna bring it, whether
you know he's gonna still play atthe top of his level, whether he's
tired or not. But but youhave those questions about Kat for sure,
absolutely very much. And by theway, his contract is huge. So
much is based on your contract.Hey, I like so and so at
X amount of million, but Idislike him. So next year's contract for

(36:58):
for contany town next year are yousitting down, guys please forty nine point
seven million, twenty five, twentysix fifty three point six million, yikes,
Oh yeah, twenty six, twentyseven fifty seven point six million,
and the twenty seven to twenty eightseason sixty one point six million player option.

(37:19):
So when he signed that contract backin July sixth, twenty twenty two,
he had leverage because Anthony Edwards didnot at that moment, still was
a rookie as a rookie season.He had talent, he didn't pop out
what he did right now, andthen nos Reid comes along. See so
nas Reed, that guy the sixthman of the year. What he did

(37:43):
for them. See naz Reid's aclass example. By the way, he
wasn't even drafted. So we're talkingabout here we are this guy in the
draft, this guy leief, thisguy in the draft. We like this
guy. We like in the draft. We like this guy next year in
a draft. The answer is yeah, we do. However, there's always
people that surprise you. That's thebeauty of the NBA and in the NFL.

(38:04):
Reed Nash Reed's undrafted back in twentynineteen from Lshue. Now, you
can't say Lshue you never saw himplay that often in the SEC the answers
you did. But what happened hematured, That's the first thing he matured.
Also by Mike Conley being there.The value of Mike Conley type players,
TJ. McConnell type players, ChrisPaul and his heyday type players is

(38:30):
that they make everybody around them better. So what they lack those guys when
they first come into the league orthey're film starved for themselves in the year's
number two and three. When theyhave a point guard that's past happy,
those guys suddenly emerge what they shouldhave done to your three years earlier.
But those passing point guards make themso so more effective. I agree with

(38:55):
you, and I think Mike Conleymentoring Rob Dillingham might be the biggest thing
for the Timberwolves in the future.It prolongs their window because he can score
the rock. Like if he werepicked by the Spurs like he was and
didn't get traded, I could haveseen him get Rookie of the Year.
But now he's on a winning teamand they have the different defense to make
up for his deficiencies offensively, Ithink that he could be a steal,

(39:15):
but you have to find a wayto keep the defense as good as it
is with paying McDaniels, you gottafind a way to pay towns, or
maybe you don't with with Nazred comingup. But I think they they have
a window that's elongated through that.But it also makes them a little more
susceptible immediately, as Conley and Gobertimmediately age, Oh very much, well
said, and so Dillingham the eighthpick of the draft. He's the air

(39:37):
apparent to Mike Conley, and sohe's a Mike Conley cerebral moves the ball
from point A to point B topoint See Dillingham is a rocket ship.
See he's the opposite. And that'sfine. Made me chuckle. He's a
rocket ship. And that's what.Every everybody's different, how they play,

(40:00):
how what their skill set is.And as a coach and management group is
that you've got to put the piecestogether. And then this thing called I
can't explain leif all I know iswhere you don't have it is called chemistry.
And there's that unbelievable spirit in otherwords, as I say this for
decades or by the way, arewe teammates or are we flawmates? So

(40:24):
a lot of times your teammates inthe locker room and your teammates what in
the club at night at twelve o'clockat midnight, and you were teammates on
the plane, But are we floormateson the court? Meaning what help the
help with defense? James, swingthe ball, come back, put a
double team because on mismatch athletically againstthe against a superior player. So I'm

(40:49):
guarding, I'm guarding in the midblock and someone can jump right over me.
Suddenly my teammate does it naturally,double teams and to make the guy
pass the ball out to be rotatedout of what, out of unison He's
there, all things of being aflowmate versus being a teammate that sometimes you're
both. That's even more dramatic.But the most important thing right now,
are you a floormate? And youknow the Celtics, they had a bunch

(41:12):
of floormates. They definitely did Gordyto steer back to free agency. I
wonder, what do you think wasthe best free agent move that you've seen
so far? Was it? Wasit the Sixers getting Paul George? Was
it the MAVs getting Klay Thompson?Was it somewhere off the board, the
Chante Merry going to the Pelicans?Yeah? The trade? Oh yeah,

(41:34):
see again, that guy got awinning game. He's an average twenty one
points a game, five point sevenassists, two point one steals. And
if Ingram's still there, it givesthem another scorer and defensive player, and
it helps Zigns out tremendously. AndI think that trade probably broke a lot

(41:54):
of Jazz fans heart scoredy because Iknow a lot of Jazz fans had their
hearts set on the Jazz trying totrade for Marie. Yeah, very much.
If the Jazz did, then thenthey would delay their rebuilding process.
And so it's that unbelievable tough thelumber in jazz basketball that you want to
be competitive, and they were forthe first part of back to back seasons

(42:15):
and then they weren't. And youcan't get those elite talent if you don't
pick high in the draft, butyou can get talented players who are undrafted
nazriating those guys. But as faras players that are difference makers. So
the Celts right now will be theclass example of back to back years they

(42:36):
picked number three, hit the jackpot, meaning Jellen Brown and then later on
Jason Tatum in sixteen and seventeen,and that was the that was the absolutely
folk rum that get them to beworld champions. And now with the thunder
right now with j Jos Alexander whothey traded for by getting chet Holgerm at
number two and then Jalen Williams atnumber twelve in the draft, they hit

(42:59):
the jackpot. So it's a fascinatingThe best way to do it is that
to try to study the NBA winnersof what they did as far as how
they built the team. Most teamsthat last for a long time are built
through the draft. Just jelly speaking, I mean, that's why I'm an
advocate of the Jazz trying to getinto the top of this draft, get

(43:21):
their franchise talent, pair with CodyWilliams, Deyont, George Taylor Hendricks,
who I believe are supplementary. They'repieces, but they're not dudes. I
think you need to go draft yourdude who you build the entire team around.
In this twenty twenty five draft,whether it's Cooper flag, Ace Bailey,
Dylan Harper, Nolan tare agor Demeanyou can rattle them off. And
I love the draft. And Ihaven't even watched too many of these guys,

(43:44):
but you can see from just thetwitchiness, the way they handle the
ball in their hands, it's differentthan anyone in this draft. Zachary resa
Chet is a guy who's learning howto play with the basketball, and he's
the number one pick, And youlook at the players in this draft upcoming,
I should say I think that's whythe Jazz need to find the player
to build a round as opposed toLowry market and being the player to build

(44:04):
around who I think he's a piece. Gordy talked about on a fifty six
win team, Lowry's the third bestplayer. Well, the Jazz want to
reach those hypes. They don't wantto play in mediocrity, be in purgatory.
We're not looking for playing appearances here, exactly first round exits. And
if you look at those teams withplaying appearances they've I mean recently Gordy talked
about it, Steph forty six wins. Steph's a generational talent. Obviously he's

(44:25):
they were unbelievably successful. But what'sthe likelihood that even last year Steph is
even close to being approached by someonelike Lowry Marketing? And I'm not saying
that's a disparage what Lowry has donewill do in his NBA career. But
unless you're able to keep him andthen find your way into that top five,
I think it's better to get theassets, whether future assets via the
draft, maybe a young player here, like if the Spurs were to give

(44:49):
us Devin Vassell and us being theJazz Devin Vessel along with some picks.
Maybe you could. You probably can'tget Stephan Castle, but Devin Vessel and
some picks. I would definitely bevery interested, and I think you would
get good immediate picks because they'll beyoung enough to where they don't truly succeed
in this loaded West. Like Gordyjust outline three of the teams he really
liked there. They're they're young,like Shay Gillig, just Alexander and the

(45:10):
thunder Chet young. All those guysare young. Lucas still very young,
Minnesota, Anthony Edwards is twenty three, like, so I don't think the
Jazz are going to pass those guysby having a star that's not as good
as them that's older. So I'mvery much in the mindset of build through
the draft because most of the teamsI've gone through the history books, Gordy
has lived it, seen it,coached it. The those teams that win

(45:32):
have their stars drafted through the draft, and only very few teams can acquire
those already established stars through trades orfree agency. Would you agree with that,
Gordy, Would you agree that thatmore success, that success more often
comes from building through the draft ratherthan free agency. I know you said
you have to be good at allthree, but would you say, if

(45:52):
there's one that's indicates success, isit the draft? Yeah? Did you
no words? Your draft number one? And then you add free agency or
aids and even guys that are undraftedjust based on they fall through the cracks.
No, because usually speaking when youpick high d the lottery high meaning
top five, is that those guysare in their age group have knockout talent.

(46:13):
Remember, talent wins in professional sports, they wins. And that's why
our list today, James, Andyeah, let's get to the list and
then we'll and then we'll we'll letyour head out. Here's what's our list
today, James. Let's say,let's state the obvious. One second is
that these guys all have unbelievable knockouttalent. This list today is the fifteen

(46:37):
greatest all time all around players inthe NBA, and the catch word is
all around. His the criteria onescoring, two passing, three defending including
shop blocking, four rebounding, andfive end of game clutch two way plays

(46:59):
and so not the greatest scorers becauseit's a different criteria. But these players
are generational that led their teams incrediblenumber fifteen. He recently passed away.
Jerry West won one NBA championship,fourteenth all time player. He was a
walking triple double before it was emphasized, so that's how crazy he was.

(47:20):
Oscar Robinson won one championship, numberthirteen. He plays for the Phoenix Suns
right now. Kevin Durant generational talent, two championships, number twelve, Mess
of footwork, two NBA titles.Haquem Alajah one number eleven for NBA titles,

(47:45):
Rebound their incredible interior force score.It impossible to guard on a two
footed catch. It's over, it'sit's don't even try. Shaquille O'Neill number
ten when they all great clutch players, Shooter, rebounder, passer. Larry
Bird with three championships, number nine. We talked about him about five times

(48:09):
in the last eleven minutes. Heplays for the Golden State Warriors. The
ninth greatest player of all time,the world's greatest shooter of all time both
catch and fire, also off thedribble. Steph Curry four NBA championships,
number eighth all time all around playerwith five championships, missed the fundamentals played

(48:34):
for the Spurs for nineteen years.He made it all happen. Tim Duncan
number seven, he won eleven championshipsin thirteen years, and he's forgotten because
he passed away about two years ago. His if I say his name,

(48:54):
his his numbers of all time.He averaged fifteen point one points per game,
twenty two point five rebounds. He'sthe greatest ever Game seven performer.
He played in ten game sevens.He was teamed with ten or zero.
He's five time league MVP. Theynamed the NBA Finals mvpfter him. He

(49:15):
was a player coach in the NBAin his last two seasons. Eleven championships
in thirteen years. The seventh alltime greatest player Bill Russell numbers. And
we talk about sorry to catch thatright, It's fine. Well, we
talk about the crazy rebound in pointsnumbers of Wilt Chamberlain. You know who's

(49:36):
right under Wilt Chamberlain as far asall those rebound records, Bill Russell,
and sometimes ahead of him, butits single game career Bill Russell. And
we talked about Wil Chamberlain being thisthe babe ruth. As far as rebounds
go, Bill Russell's right there withWill Chamberlain, and it seemed like he
got even more in the playoffs.Right, one time Bill Russell got in

(49:57):
a playoff game fifty five rebounds.Yeah, insane. Also after this is
that, remember Bill Russell would bethe all time greatest ever shot locker.
But they didn't keep the statistic.I know, it sounds almost like almost
like prehistoric times. They didn't keepofficially steals and block shots until nineteen seventy

(50:17):
three, seventy four, five yearsafter he retired. Right, you've retired
in sixty nine, him and SamJones, so no one knows how many
block shots he had. All Iknow is that what I saw is that
when you drove the lane, hemost times he'd blocked your shot. Number
six all time greatest ever performer,Magic Johnson, we know about him.

(50:37):
He did it with a smile.Five championships, Number five all time.
He left his way too soon threeyears ago, with five NBA titles.
Absolutely clutch player, the unbelievable scorewhen they needed him. Kobe Bryant number
four, James alluded to a secondago. Wilt Chamberlain set these incredible records,

(50:58):
almost impossible to stop. When hein the lane. He one time
they said he shot too much,so the next year that the NBA and
assist with two NBA titles. WorltChamberlain number three all time, six NBA
championships, five with the Lakers,one with one with the Milwaukee Bucks.
Kareem Abdul Jabbar number two all time. He plays for the Lakers right now,

(51:22):
all time leaders scorer in the NBA. He will set many incredible records.
Lebron James with four NBA titles,and the number one greatest player of
all time is Michael Jordan with sixNBA titles, six finals, MVP eleven

(51:42):
times voted to the All Defensive Team, averaged thirty three point four points per
game for his career in the playoffs. So Michael Jordan. Thus, that's
my list. We can debate thatone through fifteen. We could add,
we could add five more guys.Todation now being in ten through fifteen,
it's incredible everyone's trying to draft someonelike these guys. These guys are absolutely

(52:06):
all winners, and they're all generational. Absolutely heck of a list there,
Gordy. The Goat list for Gordy. Their greatest all round players all time
in NBA history. Gordy thank youso much for another awesome hour here.
We're gonna keep you on with withthe Sean O'Connell Show, which starts next

(52:27):
week, So we're gonna just tohave you on next Thursday with Sean.
It's so excited to continue to haveyou on here on the mid days as
OC gets in the air chairs startingnext week. Gordy peace out, Thanks
Ay peace out, Sea Leaf saywell and everyone else. Also have a
great and safe July fourth. Absolutely, that's the great Gordy Chiasa with us
here on the midday show. JamesPeterson, Leaf Tuleen hosting it today as

(52:52):
we kind of bridge the gap betweenthe Bill Riley Show and the Sean O'Connell
Show, which gets started next Monday, July eighth. Uh. Back on
the other side with more here,I'm James Peterson. That's Lee Tuleen on
Utah's number one sports talk and homeof the Utes, ESPN seven hundred and