James Barlowe analyzes the Utah Jazz draft picks, a look at the 2025 NBA draft + more

James Barlowe talks with Leif and James break down the Utah Jazz draft picks, a look at the 2025 NBA draft possibilities, and more!

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Well, welcome back. We areinto our three of we're just calling it
the Midday Show right now. Wherethe Sean O'Connell Show starts on July eighth.
The Bill Riley Show is in ourrearview mirror, so we're just calling
it the Midday Show for now.At leif James Peterson leaf Tuan across from
me. We've talked a ton ofbasketball here. We had Cordy Chiays on

(00:33):
for an hour in studio at theESPN seven hundred Sports dot com if you
miss that, or the ESPN sevenhundred app download for free today in your
preferred app store if you miss that. We talked draft, we talked free
agency. But leif you've got agood friend that we're that we're bringing on
now to continue the draft conversation.Huh Yeah. James Barlow and I host

(00:57):
locked on NBA big Board together andhe has very similar thoughts to me about
some prospects. One we disagreed onis one the Jazz were very high on
Cody Williams, and that's that's whereI'm very excited to start here. So
let's bring on James and James.Firstly, how are you doing and thanks
for joining us, but also let'slet's just give your analysis on Cody Williams

(01:17):
and maybe anger some people in Utah, but we'll battle back and forth like
we typically do. All Right,thanks for having me, Leaf, I'm
doing all right. Hopefully I don'tanger anyone. I'm for where he was
drafted at tenth, I get it, So that's a good sign. I

(01:37):
guess some people had him a littlehigher. I know, Leaf, when
we were doing our MOXU that hadmentioned him possibly going six to Charlotte,
and that's where we kind of finallystarted to disagree on something. But at
ten, I think it works.Just My biggest concerns with Cody is that

(01:57):
he's like a jack of all tradesand master of none in a sense which
you know, you can mold himinto, you know, a specific skill
set. But him being six'eight and only grabbing three wordbounds a game
does worry me. But I dolike his his versatility as far as you
know, being able to put theball in the ground in spurts, being

(02:22):
able to make plays in spurts,and you know, the measurables look good
obviously in these games. And wait, but I think at ten, you
know you can't really complain about whatyou ended up getting, especially for somebody
who some people thought could have beena top five pick. Yeah, I
think Leif said earlier he thought he, well, maybe not a top five

(02:44):
pick, but you said five onyour big board right leaf. So so
we've got someone in studio here,James that that that thinks he could have
been maybe a top five potential pick. I'm curious, what how long do
you think it'll take for Cody toreach if he let's just say, eventually
he reaches app he reaches his absolutepotential, which of course is never a

(03:07):
safe assumption with with draft picks,especially ones that are as raw as Cody
Williams. What's just assumed that eventuallydoes how long do you think it'll take
him to get there? Because itseems like it'll take him at least a
few years in my opinion generally withguys you want to say, especially those
drafted where he was drafted. Imean, it's an open draft, but

(03:30):
you think that it would take himpositively two to three years to kind of
like figure it out. An exampleand not the same player, but like
Denny Abdia who was just traded toPortland. I think it took him to
year four for him to just figureout, like, okay, I need
to He did some good things andhe it was similar in the sense where

(03:52):
he was good at some things,not like projected to be a big time
score. He did have limp,he did pass, and he you know,
could handle, but it took him. I want to say in two
this past season, which I believewas his fourth season in the NBA,
where he figured out the shooting,and it like he put together his best
season. Cody did shoot the ballwell this past season, but it was

(04:15):
on a low volume. So Iwant to say, give him about to
the third year. Maybe you cansee what you have in him and how
he projects. Also that gives himsome time. It's just really physically mature
because he's on the thin side.But most of these eighteen nineteen year old
kids are. Yeah, We've talkedabout this at length, but I think
Cody's things that you would say areworse off in his game, I think

(04:40):
they're very correct well with adding strength, which I think is the easiest thing
to do. In the NBA.We always talk about can you teach an
athlete to shoot? Can you teacha shooter to become athletic well. Cody
Williams, like you said, maynot be a master of any trade,
but he's pretty solid a lot ofthem, and that's good. But I
think he can become very good atthose ones he's pretty solid at. By
adding strength, I think he becomesbetter finisher at the rim. I think

(05:01):
he becomes a better playmaker as asix foot eight to two guard bringing it
to the rim because he creates moreadvantages having more strength, being less reliant
on your day James kind of knockhis rebounding numbers two. I would think
adding strength would help in that regardto Yeah, And I think the biggest
thing that he can do is Idon't know if he's necessarily a star in
the NBA, but I think hecan be a star in his role at

(05:23):
a very high level because he haspositional size. Because he has the ability
to shoot, even if it isa low volume, and I'm critical of
that low volume, I think thathe can shoot it well enough. I
think he can get to the rimput pressure. I think he's a very
good defender, Like he guarded thebest players against Colorado as a freshman on
a team that had a kind ofa Glue Guy, Rugged Guy, and
Javan Hadley that had Tristan da Silva, who is a highly picked player.

(05:46):
He was in the top twenty ofthe NBA draft went to the Magic.
I think what Cody Williams can workon is strength orrington. That's why I
have optimism about his development because youlook at a lot of these players that
don't shoot well well, they maynot shoot well at all, and they're
more physically mature at this point.So that's why I've got some optimism for

(06:08):
Cody Williams. And I was thrilledat the Jazz picks, as you well
know, as we've talked about thisnumerous times. Yeah, I think if
you sit here and told me thatthis case scenario or you know what,
we look at his size, hislens, his body types, and we
say, you know what he couldbe our Jaden McDaniels, then that is

(06:29):
good because it took Jaden McDaniels histhird year for him to like figure it
out. And he has similar concerns. Well, I mean, because he's
guarded the best player, he doesn'trebound either, so he's had about three
rebounds per game. But year three, Jada McDaniels became a full time starter,
he got paid, and now yousee how important he is to what

(06:49):
Minnesota does. So again for whereyou drafted him at, obviously you don't
get the top end all star upside, but like we said, you may
end up getting a star in hisrole. A lot of it does have
to do with strength. But again, just continue to develop his ability to
put the ball in the basket.It's gonna be key for his growth.

(07:11):
We're talking with James Barlow from theLockdown NBA Big Board podcast here. We're
just calling it the Midday Show fornow because Bill Riley shows in the rearview
mirror, Sean O'Connell shows looking aheadhere. We don't have a name for
this bridge situation. It's just theMidday Show. James Peterson Leaf Towleen with
you here on ESPN seven hundred ninetytwo one FM. James, I wanted

(07:31):
to first of all, you gota great name, fellow, fellow,
James got to be which we gotto look out for each other and make
sure we would compliment each other onour great names. Right, Yes,
I agree, James, not Jim, Yeah, yeah, not Jim.
My grandpa. So I'm named aftermy grandpa. Same middle name and everything,

(07:54):
and yeah, that's crazy. Andhe's a gym. Is it the
same with your grandpa? Yeah,he had to go by Jim because there
was like five people in our familyname. And I just, at a
very young age, I stood onmy ground and sait, I'm not Jim,
So I'm James. Yes, I'mJames. That's awesome. So but
I wanted to I want to askyou. One of the things that a

(08:15):
lot of jazz fans were critical ofin regards to the taking Cody Williams at
ten was a Dalton Connect was onthe board and a lot of a lot
of our listeners were like, man, I would have taken Dalton Connect.
He seems to be more of aproven commodity, which is certainly the case.
But I I would have taken CodyWilliams. I agree with with them
taking Cody Williams instead of a DaltonConnect in that in in what they did,

(08:41):
I think Leif agrees with that aswell. I just want to I
wonder where you land on that.Were you in that situation, if you're
Danny Ainge, if you're justin Zanik, do you do what they did and
take Cody Williams or would you havegone over the guy that seems more plug
and play gone for the guy whoseems more plug and play and Dalton Connect.
My thinking is I want long termupside considering where the jazz organization is

(09:05):
right now. You know, Iunderstand you guys are allegedly dangling Larie Markinen
and essentially kind of want to bein the best position for next year's draft,
which appears to be stronger. Andif you end up getting with picks
and you end up getting a star, you need pieces to compliment that star.
And I think that's what Cody Williamslong term would be able to do

(09:30):
better than what a Dalton Connect does. I think Dawton Connect I didn't think
he would slide that far, buthe is a plug and play guy.
But in the sense that plug andplay for Utah doesn't ultimately move the new
like I think it like I thinkyou would want it to, and you
got to unfortunately, have to bottomout to get great again like what Oklahoma

(09:52):
City did. So like Connect wouldhave been there and he probably would have
scored some points, but would ithave helped you in the law on run,
I don't know, because now you'vebeen to see even in the situation
with the Lakers, connect role connectsrole excuse me, is going to be
like diminuted. She's gonna have tostand the corners and have to play off
of guys. And I mean,you can't ask for a better player to
play off than Lebron James. ButI think for for Utah, they made

(10:18):
the right choice. Maybe you couldhave went with Buzellis if you felt like
his upside was a little stronger,but I would I'm pro young guy Uh
in that situation, especially on theteam that has like uncertainty as far as
like are we going to go forwith Laurie? Are we going to trade
him not? I mean that's whereyou and Iowa line as we've established over
the last couple of months talking aboutprospects. Let's talk about Isaiah Collier.

(10:41):
This is a guy that I askedyou once and for people listening, we
do a lot of podcasts together,so this is these are conversations we've already
had. But I said, what'sthe difference between Isaiah Collier and Stephan Castle?
Other than Stephan Castle's a little biggerbecause if you were to look at
Castle in the role he played atYukon. Obviously you can project and be

(11:03):
more on ball, have more talentto demonstrate than he was able to do
at Yukon. But Isaiah Collier wasthrust in the opposite situation where he had
the ball and his two guard didn'treally pass, so he didn't very pass
very much. His team didn't shootwell. They're both deficient shooters, but
if you actually boil down the statscall your shooting numbers. His driving numbers
are off the charts good. Hewas a seventy three percent finisher of layups,

(11:26):
which is unbelievables for a six orfour guard. And the Jazz took
that player was a number one recruitout of high school, albeit in a
not very good recruiting class. Atnumber one, sorry at number twenty nine
when he was a number one recruit. What do you make of that pick?
And maybe he can help the Jazzbe one of those pieces that elevate

(11:46):
you to the higher level, likeyou talk about Oka. See they've had
to hit on some drafts, butthey're not all sexy picks at number two
like Chet Holmgren. Sometimes it's twelveJalen Williams. Sometimes it's second rounders,
that they've just extended, like IsaiahJoe or Aaron Wiggins. So tell me
what your thoughts on Isaiah Callier becauseI'm pretty high on him. I had
twelve on my big board for thelisteners. Yeah, to get him at

(12:07):
twenty nine, who probably had,Like I mean, if it wasn't for
the Bub Carrington push, he mayhave gone in that same situation to Washington.
But like, to get him attwenty nine, you really can't ask
for a better opportunity for actually himand really the organization because he has a
lot of talent, big strong guardhe gets downhill. I think his best

(12:30):
plays are made when he gets downhill. And if you are able to keep
or if you're if you decide tokeep, Larry him and Lorry and pick
and roll is doing to make everyonearound them better because with NBA spacing and
a knockdown sugar like Larry marketing andlike, that's when you really get to
see the best of Isaiah Callier.And you automatically have to think that the

(12:52):
chip on his shoulder is humongous becausethere's no way that he personally thinks that
there our twenty eight guy better thanhim or in that draft and you know,
you may have it. He maythink he should have went number one,
as most of these kids do.So like you, you got a
really really good piece there, andhe should be able to play alongside Keyante
or be that guy off the benchwho you know provides a different speed to

(13:18):
help speed up things because you dohave some young athletes like Taylor Hendrix.
So I really like to pick.Like I said, I thought Miami would
have been an option for him atfifteen, but they decided to go with
Khalil war But to get him attwenty nine, like I don't. I
think it's a great opportunity for bothsides. And then their last pick at

(13:39):
thirty two, James, they gowith duke center Kyle Philipowski or Flip as
they call him. I think that'sgood value. Another guy that that's good
value for because this is the guyat least at least at the end of
the college basketball season a lot ofpeople, there's a lot of people that
saw him as a potential first roundguy. To get him in the second

(14:00):
round, I think it's pretty goodvalue and I think that he would be
able to provide some push to aguy like Walker Kessler who had a down
second year to maybe be for thecoaching staff to be like, hey,
you got to improve because we gotthis young guy coming up behind you.
Yeah. And again you know Iwasn't the highest on Philipowski, and it

(14:20):
wasn't because he is talented. It'sjust where he was projected to go.
But again, if you get somebodyin particular big that can potentially shoot,
potentially passed, potentially put the ballon the ground, and you get him
at thirty two, like, youcan't really ask for much better for for
a fan base in the front office, and as far as like putting pressure
on Walker, if nothing else,he should be a change of pace from

(14:41):
what Walker Kestler does provide. Solike coming into the draft, you know
there were comparisons to Kelly olennok Or. I thought at some point he's not
the he's not as quick, buthe does have some ability to put the
ball on the ground like a nasRed when nas Reed would undrafted because people
just kind of overthought his situation.He was a tweener and he didn't shoot

(15:05):
the ball as well. Maybe youget something similar in Kyle Filapowski. And
if nothing else is to change thepace from when Kessler does check out,
because now you've got a potentially apicking pot big or another big that can
initiate offense. So yeah, again, Kyle Philipowski at like fourteen, I
wasn't okay with it, But KylePhilipowski at thirty two, you absolutely take

(15:26):
that. And again now you haveyou can give defenses a different look instead
of shuffling in the same guy.So now you have the game plan for
the rim running big, and alsoyou got the game plan for the stretch
big who can potentially pass as well. Yeah. I echo your thoughts entirely
about Philipowski. I was never veryhigh on him, had thirty five on
my board, and so at thirtytwo, I'm perfectly content as opposed to

(15:48):
taking him in the lottery as hewas projected. I've got a question,
speaking of the lottery and alluding tosomething you just mentioned. We talked about
Lowry Marka and you said the Jazzare dangling him right now with the Jazz
v uhement we're against throughout much ofthis process. But mckel Bridges yields four
first round picks and Lowry has beenan all star. Bridges has not.
I think they're comparable players, butLowry marketing will get a haul. But

(16:11):
what I'm going to ask you,as THEFT Draft Expert twenty twenty five is
a taluted class. There are alot of players that are to be excited
about. Give give a brief breakdownon a few of those guys that Jazz
fans who are like myself thinking theJazz might want to invest in the future
as opposed to the present. Givethem something to be hopeful about, and
maybe watch a little film on allright, So if you don't know who

(16:33):
Cooper Flag is, you should immediatelywhen you finish listening to this go find
out who Cooper Flag is. Goeducate yourself. Yes, please go educate
yourself on Cooper Flag. He looksthe part. He plays extremely hard,
and he has athleticism, motor andthe skill set is developing. And he

(16:56):
is the reason, well he wasone of the main reasons why cards are
being shuffled right now. Ace Baileyis a very talented player. He is
going to Rutgers alongside with I thinkthe number three player in this class rankings
to be wrong, but they haveanother guy, Dylan Harper, the son
of Ron Harper. I don't knowhow he is perceived in Utah. Since

(17:18):
the Bulls did beat Jazz that talkabout that. We were having a good
conversation down We can atone for thatbecause his son is a six to five
point guard left handed, he canshoot. Uh, there are other guys,
but like this particular draft, itlooks like it's the one. And
let me throw out the name outthere. We know that in this particular

(17:41):
draft there were what three guys inthe top ten drafted from France. Four
in the first round they got aFrench point guard named Nolan trejor uh t
r A O r E. Idon't speak French, and my French is
improven with all these French guys beingdrafted, but he could potentially go number

(18:03):
two. And yes, and ifteams passed on him and you get the
opportunity to take him in Utah,you absolutely should take him because him and
Kiante George would see families. Yeah, and I would think that this iteration
of the Jazz would would not passon a potential great point guard. Like

(18:26):
back in the day we had wehad Gordy Chiasa and with us he was
an assistant coach, one of thelead assistants for Jerry Sloan. And he
worked out all the draft prospects,and he likes to tell the story of
working out Tony Parker twice and theJazz passing on him anyway. So I
would think that in this new regimeof the Utah Jazz, if they get
a chance to work out and they'rein the range to be able to take

(18:48):
Trey Arra, and I think thatthey would remember what happened with Tony Parker
and maybe not make that same mistaketwice. James he has the ability and
the scheme. Maybe not as fatas Tony Parker is a he was about
five speed. He has four outof five speed, but he's six three
six' four, so he's taller. And if you again, if you're

(19:12):
have an opportunity, just go lookand see what he did at the Nike
Global Games. He basically dominated andhe's been playing well. And I'm surprised
he's not playing for France in theOlympics right now at eighteen years old.
But he is legit and if youif he's there, that's the guy you
should take. I mentioned him whenwhen Gordy was in he had a list

(19:33):
of five and I was the onehe left out, and I was like,
Oh, we got to talk abouthim because he turns a corner and
gets to the rim and you're like, oh, my goodness, he's there
in a split second. And thenhe's also got the size and vision.
He played in the Hoop Summit,which is where Nikolea. Jokic and Jamal
Murray actually kind of came into prominence. Obviously, Jokic fell to forty first,
but Murray was a well known prospectone MVP of the Hoop Summit,

(19:56):
and this guy was unbelievable. Allthe attention was all in the American players,
the trio and maybe even VJ.Edgecomb who's from the Bahamas and he's
playing a Baylor. But I lookedat him and I was like, well,
that guy I'd never seen, buthe's unbelievable. So I think behind
Cooper Flag, he's my number two. And that's only because Flag's big and
that's just what's hitting in the modernNBA right now. But Tari might be

(20:18):
a little bit more polished at thisage, and he's still got a plenty
of upside. So that's why I'mso adamant the Jazz look toward the future,
invest in the future, and becomeone of these powerhouses. So I
can celebrate the Utah Jazz. Youguys can celebrate the Utah Jazz being a
contender, not a play in contender. Hey, look the way that the
West is looking even before you know, those older teams look old. And

(20:45):
the Clippers, who knows what's gonnahappen, They really need healthy Kawhi because
they lost Paul George. The Warriorsdon't look good. So I mean,
I would want the Jazz as anhonorary Jazz fan because of my friend Leaf
here. I would want them tonot try to take that bait and think
about the next season because the nextseason, those those teams are gonna be

(21:07):
even older. So you can catchit. You can catch you about two
three years and be like, hey, we look like the new Oklahoma City
Thunder a couple of pieces away.Yeah, that's the model for sure that
the Jazz and the Jazz front officeI'm sure is trying to follow, and
jazz fans are certainly looking at asthe hope for their future that maybe they
can be the next Okay, seeJames, tell tell us what you got

(21:32):
going on on the pod and howwhat's the best way to for our listeners
to tune in, so myself,Leaf, sometimes my brother and Richard Stayman.
We are on the NBA Locked onNBA big Board podcast. We're on
their at least in season five daysa week. We talk about everything.
Sometimes we don't agree, but meand Leaf kind of have the same philosophy.

(21:56):
But at the same time, it'sstill fun to disagree, and you
know we I'm not afraid to givemy opinion, Leaf not afraid to give
his opinion. And if not,you can find me on They call it
X. Now I won't ever callit X, but I am draft junkie
James on X if you would liketo follow me, I try to tweet
about basketball stuff. So that iswhere I am. Great stuff, James,

(22:18):
Thanks for hopping on. We'll haveto do this again sometime, Man.
Have a good rest of your day. Thank you for having me.
James Barlow Locked on NBA big Boardpodcast, Get it wherever you get your
podcasts. Leif is also prominently featuredon that show as one of the regular
co hosts of that podcast. Itsounds like a fun guy to interact with.

(22:41):
Certainly some good insights on next year'sdraft to look forward to. If
you're a jazz fan, and hopefullyafter hearing all that, the way you
and you and he were talking aboutsome of the guys not named Cooper Flag,
especially Troy Or, I mean thatthat makes me and I think it
pro makes a lot of our listenerswho are jazz fans go, yeah,

(23:02):
you know what, maybe trading Lowrywouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
Yeah. I mean, I waslistening to him talk and I knew
he was gonna go there because we'dvery briefly spoken about Trori before, and
I just started smiling in here,like I know, I saw the smile
that the guy on the guy isunbelievable Trore and that's like supposed to be

(23:23):
fifth. I have him too,but he's supposed to be fifth. That
shows how good the class is,Like the Rutgers guys are going to be
awesome to watch Cooper Flag. Andthen there's another guy that we haven't even
mentioned him common Malolok, who's sevenfoot two from Sudan and he's playing on
Duke next year next to Cooper Flagin the same front court. So there's
me some teams Duke and Rutgers towatch these prospects and the jazz fans might

(23:45):
as well familiarize themselves right now withthose guys and hopefully find them in jazz
uniform soon. Absolutely. On theother side, we're gonna talk about Utah
football. The preseason poll for theBig twelve Media Days is out. Utah's
number one. Who's right behind him? And how big a gap is there

(24:06):
between Utah and some of these otherteams we'll talk. We'll get into that
also. Morgan Scalley the big newsfrom yesterday. His coaching waiting title has
been reinstated, so he is nowback to being the all but guaranteed guy
to take over for Kyle Whittingham ifand when he retires or or when he
leaves the program for good in thenext maybe couple of years. So we'll

(24:30):
break that down for you next here. As we're about twenty twenty five minutes
left here of the show, we'rejust calling it the midday Show for now
as we bridge the gap between theBill Riley Show and the Sean O'Connell Show,
which starts on Monday, July eighth. I'm James Peterson. That's leave
tu lean more next right here onUtah's number one sports talk and home of

(24:51):
the Utes ESPN. Seven hundred and