October 23, 2023 • 39 mins
"Harriet the Spy," chapter 13. Harriet has entered Gremlin Sociopath mode and we are here for it. Jody and Alison discuss this wild and weird 1964 kid lit classic by Louise Fitzhugh, and can't get over our heroine's descent into sadistic nihilism. To keep things light, Jody presents a Special Report on cancer fighting pigeons. And of course there's lots of dramatic reading and the usual Cocoon shenanigans. It's a (sometimes) Judy Blume book club. Join us (almost) every week!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:15):
I am Jody and I'm Alison,and you're listening to the Blue Saloon.
It's a gaudy blue book club.No, we're in Poe's room. We
are. We're recording in Poe's roombecause Poe is not here, and Poe
has the most incredible mural on theirwalls, and so it's a very inspirational
and creative space to be in.But it's also a child's room, so
(00:38):
it feels very fitting, like itwould have died and gone to heaven to
be in here. We're sitting onthe floor, got wine. We've got
the computer balanced on Poe's little bed. It's just very cozy and sweet.
And there's like a cabbage patch dolland oh that's Tiger Baby baby. Oh.
(00:58):
And then there's your puffal lump.Oh yeah, there's my buffalo ump
and little Frida and Pineapple Cat.I recognize Pineapple Cat from like the eighties.
Yeah, Pineapple Cat is you knowthe cats? You know those cats
that were on all the eighties Tshirts and sweatshirts and did they wear red
(01:19):
sneakers? Yeah, it's from anairport. First things first, we're reading
here at the Spy by Louise Fitsyou chapter thirteen. Today we have heard
some feedback from Bloomheads, and theBloomheads would like us to hurry it along.
Okay, okay, good, okay, okay, okay. So next
(01:42):
episode we'll start maybe we'll start doingtwo chapters at a time. Yeah,
and we won't dwell. Yeah,I think we can do two chapters.
There's a lot of like repetition inthis book that we can kind of glaze
over. We need to go overevery minute detail. I think that's right.
Although I will say this episode isis the angsiest yet. Yeah.
Yeah, and it does feel likea moment of change. Mmm. Something's
(02:09):
gotta give after this episode. Igotta say totally with you. Before we
get into the book, though,I want to give it your super blated
birthday present. Just a little greenbag. Okay, okay, a little
green bag? What what? What? What? Where did this come from?
(02:36):
I ordered it a long time agoand it took forever to get here.
It's the most gorgeous green, kindof tallish mug. It's a good
size I like this size mug andit says rap think on it on the
back. Two there's more rappink.It has the rap fink on it.
Rap Think sixty six. Oh mygod, this is gorgeous. I'm so
(03:01):
glad you like it. There's alot of rat fink mugs on eBay.
There's eyeball flies. Look at thoseeyeball flies, bloodshot rat eyes called nightmare.
I like this. It's a verycute little candle with a little cute,
(03:23):
little happy face on it says feeling. Okay. That's my friend Kat's
candle company. I love it.And so she and her business partner make
these scented candle Those freaking delightful.And I thought of you when I saw
that one, because whenever we checkin on the phone and we're like,
how are you, yah, I'malways saying I'm fine, and you're always
(03:46):
saying I'm okay. Yeah. It'sactually been a resolution of mine lately to
stop masking at work because I nowhave to go into the office three days
a week, which is a challengefor me. I'm an introvert. I
want to be at home. Iwant to be alone. I want to
(04:06):
not look at a single other personwhile I do my work. So it's
been a challenge for me, butI've accepted that this is what I have
to do. But I'm gonna doit without masking and by being honest.
And when people ask me how Iam, when I say fine, okay,
(04:28):
shitty, I'm not gonna say ohI'm good's that's exhausting. Yeah,
it's really exhausting to just be like, oh I'm good. Yeah, and
then just all the small talk andall the saying hello, hi, hi,
hi hi. That's the part thatreally makes me so tired. And
so being okay is okay, Beingokay is okay. Well there you go.
(04:51):
That's gonna go on your desk atwork and you're gonna light that candle.
It's so good in response to people'squestions, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, how are you? Andyou hold out your can and just
like light it. You're like,I'm okay, okay. Maybe that's a
good way. Lighting a candle atmy desk is a good way to say
leave me the fuck alone. It'slike the sock on the door knob.
(05:13):
Honestly, the headphones aren't working.That used to be the universal, like
leave me alone at work? Rightnow? I keep I like look over
and someone's in my peripheral going hey, hey, hey, I'm like,
do I look like I want totalk? I have my big headphones on.
So this is perfect. I'm suitedup for it. Thank you so
(05:36):
much, Jody. I love thesepresents. You're welcome. It's a good
way to age as long as there'sgifts. How is your boba cake thing?
By the way, Oh amazing?Really? Yes, everything you sent
was? I sent Jody a littletreats, little treats for her birthday.
We have September Birthday girls, SeptemberBirthday girls. Treats, some flowers.
(06:00):
Where was it from Craftsmen and Wolves? They're doing some wild little cakes.
I mean, I love their classicwith it. I know it egg muffin
usure, but yeah, I neverthey've been mixing it up. They've been
getting into the cofection game. Shoutout Craftsmen and Wolves shut out. So
(06:34):
chapter thirteen, huh, chapter thirteen, that's the one lucky number thirteen.
Now we're gonna hurt it up.We're gonna charge ahead. But this episode
you get chapter thirteen. Ral Iwas pretty. I was really pretty.
(06:57):
So we got a regular regular crew, got Harriet m Welsh, our angsty
gal, her parents, mom anddad, her cook, mention of Old
Golly, our beloved nurse, andthen the school kids We've got Sport and
(07:17):
Janie and Rachel Hennessy and Carrie Andrewsand Marion Hawthorne, Beth Ellen, Pinky
Whitehead, Laura Peters, the Boywith the Purple socks, and the teachers,
Miss Elson and Miss Harris. Havewe heard of Miss Harris before?
Miss Harris is the math teacher.Yeah, she was. In the last
episode. She got very angry atHarriet about the notebooking class. Oh that
(07:43):
was her. Okay, I can'tkeep track of all these times. You
know, there's a lot of teachers, there's a lot to keep track of,
a lot of kids. But man, the boy with the purple socks
continues to surprise me. I thinkhe's the strongest of them all. Yeah,
I think he is the most powerful. Harriet is now officially banned from
(08:03):
having a notebook on her person.Wow, it feels very it's apt like,
it feels like it is what needsto happen, but also feels very
violating that she can't have this outlet. Like we said last week, it's
her one friend that has been snatchedaway. She is not dealing with us
(08:24):
very well. Every morning, she'sfrisked by her mom before leaving for school,
and then when she gets to school, miss Elson also pats her down.
They're like fucking TSA agent's over here. Apparently the cook's hanging onto the
notebook in some secret place. Idon't think that cook should be in charge
(08:45):
of anything. No, you know, the cook is reading the notebook.
Yeah, of course, I meanmaybe if she can read? Is that
rude? Mean? I just don'ttrust her. Harriet's in a mood.
She's turning into a scary, scarylittle sociopath, big big sociopath vibes.
(09:07):
She's somewhere between like depressed and apatheticand then on the other end, yeah,
like rageful and vengeful. And that'skind of the scariest combination you can
get. Yeah, a violent nihilisYeah, like we got Janie was scary,
wanting to blow up the school.Like Harriet's gone a little next level
(09:31):
with it. Mm hmm. Shedoesn't care about the things she used to
care about, you know, thebig things, like writing her name on
a piece of paper. And evenher thoughts now are like slow and sparse.
It's not like when she's writing andher thoughts just flow freely and ideas
come out. All she can thinkof right now is the phrase I feel
(09:54):
different. I feel different to hervery slowly, and then it morphs into
something so terrifying. I feel me. Oh no, she has changed,
she says, like Gizmo turning intoa gremlin, or like a werewolf situation.
(10:20):
She's growing a hair on her palms. Yeah, her nails are coming
out. I'm frightened. It isbig gremlin goblin and her teeth. Yeah,
she says she'll never forget this moment. When the bell rings for lunch,
she does something without even really planningit. This shocked me. She
(10:41):
sticks out her foot to trip Pinkywhite Head in his tracks as he runs
down the aisle for lunch, andhe's injured. He's got like a bloody
nose. He's crying and writhing onthe floor. And Harrod's just staring with
a blank look on her face.I mean, like we said, sociopath,
right, Yeah, when there's blood, things are bad. She says.
(11:05):
She feels satisfied at once. Shesits by herself. She's described as
owl eyed. She felt her thoughtslimping like crippled children. Amazing writing,
Yeah, sounds good writing. Yeah. As the kids crowd around the cafeteria
(11:28):
door, she reaches over and shedoes her second act of violence. She
pinches Carrie Andrew's on the leg likeso hard. It's a hard, sneaky
pinch. Carrie screams, But thenagain Harriet just looks ahead with a blank
stare on her face. Violence.It says in the book that no one
(11:52):
would have suspected her for this pinchaction because she's never pinched anyone in her
life. But we know that's wrong. Never forget the burping three year old
neighbor that she pinched on the bus. Yeah, she's pinched before, She's
pinched babies. Yeah, you know, there's like the the show's like wive
(12:15):
sit kill. It's like girls thatpinch, Like she's a pinching terror.
Oh my god, snapped, yeah, snapped, snapped, colon girls that
pinch, pinched, pinched girls thatpinch. Yeah that. In math class,
(12:39):
Mss Harris is just going on andon and on about numbers and a
bridge and like something about lamb chopsand boats. Harriet's like, I don't
get math. I've never paid attentionin this class. Why would I?
Now? She's like, numbers arejust like swirling around me. I've never
heard of this. So her nexther third act of violence is upon us.
(13:03):
She takes a crumpled up piece ofpaper and throws it at sports ear,
and then after that she throws apencil at Beth Ellen's face. Oh
my god. And these kids arejust like, what the fuck? They're
starting to fear her. Yeah,I mean as as they should. They
should have known better than to messwith her. They should have read that
(13:28):
book and thought, well, she'sunhinged. We should not make a club
to, you know, harass hermore. Maybe we should leave her alone.
You know, they're learning the hardway. And I think what scares
the most is not like the pinchingand the pencils. It's the look that's
on her face. It's like I'mdead inside. Yeah. And so this
(13:50):
is where I have to harken backto our last episode where there was the
services Go Examiner review of the Harrietthe Spy movie where they called her terrible
and said, you know, inthe book like she's like a tiny feminist,
and she in the movie she's terrible. And it's like, no,
she's terrible. Everywhere everywhere you findHarriet, she's bad, a tiny feminist.
(14:13):
I have not seen a spark ofthat yet. No, she's just
a tiny sociopath what my dad wouldhave called ASBO back in the day in
England antisocial behavior. You get WHOAlike you know, you get in trouble
with the police and then you're labeledin ASBO. Whoa. I want a
(14:37):
special report on that. Yeah,I'll have to verify that. Yeah.
Please. After school, Harriet runshome as usual and bangs into the cook
for the hundredth time. The firstthing she does is demand her notebook.
Give me my notebook? Please?What notebook? What do you mean my
(14:58):
notebook? My notebook? Listen tome. You apologize for almost knocking me
to the floor. I apologize,all right, my notebook? Oh all
right, all right. Can't youwait just one minute to get the soap
off my hands? No? No, no, no, no no,
(15:22):
I can't wait. I want itnow, all right, all right?
The cook washes her hands, drivesthem and reaches down under the sink from
way back in the back. Shepulls out the notebook with a little cleansers
filled on it. Harriet grabs itand runs out of the room. Hey,
(15:43):
how about your cake and milk?She forgot her cake and milk for
the first time in her life.She runs up to her room, finally
gets to open her notebook on herbed and just looks at all the pages
with her handwriting, and she's sore sure to see her writing on the
page. It's still there, ithasn't disappeared. And then she starts to
(16:07):
write and write and write and writeand write, and she feels better.
Her soul is like being cleansed,the sheer belief of communication. She thinks,
she sits, and she thinks,since she thinks, since she writes
in her book again, something isdefinitely happening to me. I am changing.
(16:30):
I don't feel like me at all. I don't ever laugh or think
anything funny. I just feel meall over. I would like to hurt
each one of them in a specialway that would hurt only yam. Oh
my god. And then she makesa list about all the ways that she's
(16:52):
going to hurt her friends. It'slike a manifesto, you know, it's
like a real, real thing.It's like a burn book on steroids.
For maryon Hawthorne frogs, she's gonnaput one in her desk, but a
snake would be better. For RachelHennessy, she's gonna talk about her father,
(17:15):
ask her where he went for LauraPeters her hair. She's gonna cut
it off or make a bald spotfor Pinky whitehead. Mean, looks that's
all he needs. Carrie Andrews,she's gonna tell her father something terrible about
(17:36):
her, which is a lie.For Bethellen Hanson, she hates to be
hit, so she's gonna hit her. For Jane, she's gonna break her
little finger, and for Sport.She's gonna call him a sissy and tell
everyone he reads cookbooks. But shecan't think of anything to do for the
(18:00):
boy with the purple socks? Isthis because he's she can sense that he's
above and beyond the average human being. He has superpowers, perhaps, But
in her book she writes, he'sjust too dull. He's just too dull.
She can't think of anything for him. All she could think about is
purple socks. So all of thisreminds me of the documentary The Curious Case
(18:26):
of Natalia Grace. Oh my god, but this is like the Harriet's like
the girl everyone thinks she is.She's hiding knives under her pillow. Yes.
The next day, all Harriet canthink about is revenge. She taunts
Rachel Hennessy asks about her father wherehe is so much so that she makes
(18:52):
her cry, and she finds afrog to put Mary in Hawthorne's desk.
She even chops Peter's hair. Couldyou even imagine? It's just so freaking
mean. I actually can remember girlsand people being very mean to one another,
and once we got to around fifthsixth grade, and the worst thing
(19:15):
you could do is put gum insomeone. Oh yeah, it was so
mean somehow, like in a wayit's meaner than chopping, yeah, because
it could do more damage, andthen you have to deal with it all
and then realize you have to thenchop it, right, You have to
go through the motions of like maybeI can get this out with peanut butter,
and then eventually chop it. Choppingit does get straight to the punch,
(19:41):
you know what. I hope shecomes back with a cute pixie cut
and all the rage and everyone wantstheir hair to look like her. Straight
up, Julie Andrew's it. Yes, yes, yeah, so Mary and
Hawthorne opens her desk and remember Harriethas found a frog for her. It's
(20:02):
poor frog. Harriet had never seensuch confusion or heard such screams in her
life. It was extremely gratifying.It was as though the whole class erupted
in a volcanic shower of cries,running yelps, and tumbling bodies. No
one at first knew what had happened. Marian screamed so loudly that everyone jumped
(20:25):
up. Then when they saw whatappeared to be a small brown spot leaping
from desk to desk, onto achild's shoulder, onto another desk, from
there to an arm, they losttheir heads completely, Without being able to
tell what about. In the confusion, Harriet got a plant and walked home.
That is honestly the best written paragraphof this whole book, I think.
(20:48):
So. I noticed that there wassome artistry there. Yeah, it's
gorgeous, Harriet, Like I said, walked home. It's not the end
of day, midday. She's justwalked herself home, like she set the
school on fire. And it's justlike heathers. Yeah, it's exactly what
I'm thinking. It's very heather.She just walks herself home and cigarette,
(21:12):
Yeah, smoky little hair. Thecook's like, where the fuck, what
what are you doing here? Harriet? Like why are you here? But
she says all of this in awhisper, and Harry yells, why are
you whispering? The cook says,because I have a new cake in the
(21:33):
oven. Don't bounce, don't walkheavy, don't shout where it will fall.
It must be a soup fle Yeah, so it's interesting, I uh
google some googling, uh huh,and very delicate cakes. It's true.
If there's any kind of vibration,any big movements, sound can do that,
(21:56):
you know. Really, so youdo need to be like a little
bit careful. It's not terrible,right. It is like it's like half
old wives tale, half truth.There's something to it. It is rooted
in something. But I do thinkin today's age it's harder, like they're
(22:17):
sturdier ovens, sturdier floors. Butback then it was it was a concern.
I'm so glad you looked into that. Thank you. It's important to
me. So Harriet, being thevengeful, spiteful child that she is,
(22:37):
she knocks over a chair, shejumps around, she yells, she stomps,
and that cake it falls. Thecook screams, look what you've done,
you terrible child? That does it? I quit? I have to
(23:00):
put up with one more day.I will go start raving, yelling crazy,
and it's not worth it for whenI get paid. Harry just goes
up to her room. She laysaround, she looks at the ceiling.
All she can think about is oldGolly, old Gully, Old Gully,
old Golly. All she can thinkabout. And I remembered in this moment
(23:22):
that she is grieving. She haslost this most important person in her life,
and she hasn't had the support andguidance and care and all of that
to be able to handle this.So I do have a moment of compassion
for Harriet. You're right. Idon't want to have that compassion because it's
(23:44):
more fun to hate her, butyou're so right. Yeah, she has
not been propped up. No,And she is in a delicate time of
her life, a delicate age whereshe is facing hard time. She's been
betrayed by her friends, she's hadher diary read, she's had all of
her innermost personal thoughts laid out bearto the world. Yeah, she's going
(24:10):
through it. But then her momreturns home and she can hear her mom
and the cook having a talk.I'm quitting, I tell you, I'm
tired of being run into every dayand being screamed at, and now she's
stomped my cake and that doesn't Ohplease don't leave us now we need you.
I wouldn't stay for all the moneyin the world. I'm leaving right
(24:34):
now. What about a five dollarraise? I think we could see our
way clear. Something better be doneabout that, Harriet. I hate to
leave you in the lurch, butshe run into me one more time,
or pull a nasty trick like stompingmy cake, and that's it. I
understand. I'm a cook, nota nurse, of course, I understand
(24:57):
completely. Harriet's in her room andall she can think about is old Golli,
old Golli, old Golli, oldgolly. And the cook goes back
to the kitchen kind of stomping around, and Harriet's mom comes up the stairs.
Harriet, what's the matter with you? Harriet? Do you know what
(25:21):
my day has been like? Ihad a frantic call at the hairdressers to
come to your school. Immediately Iwent over there and heard how you had
spent your morning, that Laura Petersis practically going to have to have her
head shaved. Marian Hawthorne went homesick, and Miss Elson was on the
verge of tears. She was sowrought up she'll probably never get over it.
(25:44):
She says, it was bedlam forhours. Then I come home to
find the cook quitting. Well,luckily I saved that situation. But Harriet,
this has gone too far. Nowyou're going to have to sit up
and talk to me. What doyou think you're doing? Harriet does nothing,
nothing at all. She doesn't move, She doesn't say a peep.
(26:07):
Harriet, your father will be homein an hour. If you're not talking
to me by then, you'll haveto talk to him. Just then,
she hears her father come in thedoor. Oh, I just can't cope
with this kind of thing. Icome home from the office and I want
some piece I'm white and a martini. I come home tonight and the ice
(26:33):
bucket isn't even filled. You're practicallyraving. I can hear that think of
a cook all the way from thekitchen. She's yelling so loud. Can
you tell me you just gave hera five dollar raise? Now makes sense?
Woman? Oh my god, Dadterrible, oh terrible. And she
(26:56):
hears them go into the library andkind of close the door. Harriet's staring
into the abyss, you know,thinking nothing, having no thoughts at all,
almost falling asleep, just truly disassociatingin these moments. And her father
(27:17):
stomps up the stairs. Nary isin the doorway. Harrian, are you
asleep? Harriet? Answer me?She just lay there. Listen. I
know perfectly well you're not asleep.I used to do the same thing to
my father. So you just situp and talk to me. As she
(27:42):
sits up in one perfectly coordinated motion, just truly, she sits up,
and as she sits up, swinglike, just truly, flings her shoe
at her father, sucking. Shegives no fucks. Well, oh ah,
(28:03):
something has to be done. Thischild come in here. I think
we'd better call the what the Sheslams the door shut on him, and
she just lays back down as ifshe'd never done a thing. She never
moved a muscle, she'd never thoughtabout her father even coming in the door.
She's done. She just thinks,wait until I break Jenny's finger.
(28:32):
She's no remorse, No, nota remorseful bone in this girl's body.
And she falls asleep like almost sosatisfied with with what she'd done. She's
at peace. Yeah, she's atpeace. She wakes up in the night,
and her mom's changing her outfit,you know, changing her out of
her day clothes into her pajamas,tucks her in, and she sleeps blissfully.
(29:02):
Maybe she just needed to get allthat out of her system, and
maybe she's going to wake up inthe morning, you know, repentant and
calm and good and well rested.Do you think maybe I just keep thinking.
So I went climbing the other night, rock climbing, and I had
(29:23):
a mental breakdown on the wall.I couldn't I got up high enough on
a route, but I couldn't getup any higher. And I also was
struggling to get back down, likeI'd really gotten myself up to a certain
point, like with as much strengthas I had left, and I couldn't
find my way back. And Iwas having a mild panic attack and kind
(29:45):
of stressed. And my heart ratewas so high. Did your r ring
tell you no? I watched myno, all of my you know,
wearables, My watch told me thatmy heart rate was like one hundred and
seventy five, Like it was sohigh. I got and I was so,
so so stressed, and eventually Igot myself down after a few minutes,
(30:07):
and it was fine. But I'dburned so many calories by being so
stressed, and I slept so well. Wow, I think that is a
good parallel to this situation. Yeah, I feel like she's burning so much
energy by being so vengeful and beingso stressed that she just has nothing left
(30:30):
to give but sleep. That isso insightful. Oh my god, I'm
so thankful you shared this moment becauseit makes so much sense. And maybe
Louise fits you knows what she's doingafter all the Yeah, the exhaustion of
hatred. Yeah, of stress totally. One more question, who do you
(30:55):
think dad is gonna call? Ithink we better call. At first,
I was like the cops. Ohgolly, maybe Carrie Andrew's dad. Maybe
the institution, maybe the home forwayward girls. Oh maybe this book's gonna
go all a girl interrupted on us. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
(31:18):
that'd be good. Like you said, I do feel like we're on
the precipice of real change here.So let's see chapter fourteen takes us.
Yep, we're gonna we'll do chapterfourteen fifteen mm hm, next week.
Will power through the rest of thebook. But I am excited to hear
where we go, Like, howdo we wrap this all up? How
will this end? No idea tobe honest, I honest know, I'm
(31:42):
truly having even seen the movie,Like, I'm just kind of in my
adult age mystified by how they mighttie this all up and what lesson there
is to potential here? Probably none. But before we get to that,
(32:06):
I want to tell you about pigeonscausing cancer. Oh my gosh, please
tell me everything. So I thinkit was last week or maybe the week
before. I think it was lastweek, Harriet mentions that, oh,
no, pigeons give you cancer.We were like, what what? What
is that? I learned a lot. Let me lead you through my research
(32:29):
journey. First, I came acrosspigeon fanciers lung. That's what they call
the lung complications that can be associatedwith pigeon owning dirty birds. Yeah,
well, so a lot of itis transmitted through their poop. They've got
all sorts of things in their poop. Oh, But people who raise pigeons
(32:50):
and spend a lot of time aroundpigeons and pigeon poop have been known to
get severe, debilitating breathing difficulties.And patients can get symptoms years after exposure.
Oh my god, pigeon Fancier's lung. Yeah, what a name.
It sounds very old timy, likeyou couldn't even get it. Now there's
(33:12):
something similar that's like hen Fancier's lung. I think it's just Wow, it's
not just pigeons. It's like,maybe not get that intimate with bird poop.
Yeah, okay, exactly. Pigeonpoop can transmit over sixty diseases.
What just like just generally, likeso like it is really bad if a
pigeon poop's on you, like juston the street, not if it's just
(33:36):
once. I think this is ifyou're just surrounding yourself with pigeons for a
prolonged amount of time, like maybeif you're like the Feed the Birds lady
and Mary Poppins, or if youare a pigeon fancier or you know,
like a lot of people are breeders. Well remember the time the pigeon came
down my chimney, Yeah, andthen it pooped on my jacket. I
(34:00):
mean you might have to look outfor pigeons fanciers. No, wait,
didn't Pepper chomped it? But yeah, one chomp, one, chomp,
one, chomp, goodbye. I'msorry. It was just it was a
thing that happened. There's nothing wecould have done. Yeah, let's move
(34:20):
on to the cancer part, please. Studies in Germany and I believe the
nineties showed that there was an increasedrisk of lung cancer found among people exposed
to pet birds. So we can'tjust blame pigeons. Ow. This will
turn me off. I've been thinkingabout parakeets. I thought of you,
I'm off. I'm off it now, Well, wait till I'm gone.
(34:44):
They didn't quite understand why, sothey say, until the patho genesis,
Until the pathogenesis is understood, longterm exposure to pet birds and living areas
should be avoided, especially among peopleat high risk of developed lung cancer.
So that was not good news toany smoking bird owners, you know.
(35:07):
But that was the nineties, andI think, uh, scientists understand a
little more now, and I wantedto not be biased, so I went
to pigeonpause dot com thank you,and they say no, there is currently
no evidence to suggest that pigeons cancause cancer and humans. Although these birds
carry diseases that can spread diseases tohumans, no scientific evidence links birds to
(35:29):
cancer, and I think that appliesto most birds in general. Okay,
okay, but there is a linkof pigeons to cancer, but it's because
they can actually detect cancer. Ohoh, so they're noticing it. Scientists
trained a group of sixteen pigeons tolook at slides of cells of both cancerous
(35:52):
and non cancerous tissue. They hadthem in this like little isolation box with
us a TV screen in front ofthem with a projection of cells, and
the pigeon would like, you know, click a button like benign or malignant,
and then they would get a treatif they were right. So they're
not like smelling it, they're like, look, they're looking at the microscope.
(36:15):
Oh hi, Okay. So overthe course of the first month of
training, their accuracy got as highas eighty percent, what which is good
but not as good as human experts. And what they discovered was that the
wisdom of the flock was far moreaccurate. So they showed the same images
(36:36):
to different birds, and by combiningtheir guesses, the accuracy rose to ninety
nine percent, which is on parwith human experts and more reliable than computers.
Okay, I'm just trying to understandthe the use. Okay, okay,
(36:59):
but like, tell me more aboutthese pigeons scientists in their little I
think they don't need to get paid. I think like the human labor of
like looking over hundreds and hundreds ofslides of you know, breast tissue,
I think it was breast cancer specifically. So breast tissue just costs money.
But if you've got these cute littlepigeons, you can just pay with pellets.
(37:21):
Sure, why not? And they'refun And really it comes down to
they have great eyesight, like mostbirds have really good eyesight. They can
detect more colors than humans. Andimportantly, their brains don't fill in the
gaps when there's missing information like humanbrains do. You know, Like if
(37:42):
we have a blind spot, ourbrain will fill it in as if we're
seeing it, so we falsely identifythings or we fall for optical illusions a
lot pigeons do not. Wow,that's cool, yeah, so yay,
So you can get your parakeet afterall, all okay, and when it's
time for your mammogram, you canjust uh, I'll show my biopsy just
(38:07):
like flash them, yeah, justflash them exactly, we see if they
do anything totally totally okay, andthat's all I got. Wow, what
a report. That's one of myall time faves. I'm so glad in
true bloom saloon style. There isvery little scientific knowledge involved, but some
(38:28):
fun facts that I found on theinternet. Cool. That's all. Wait,
this has been great, Poe.Thank you for letting us use your
room. Thank you. My favoriteis the banana, Have a banana a
banana, Bye bye the ba
I am Jody and I'm Alison,and you're listening to the Blue Saloon.
It's a gaudy blue book club.No, we're in Poe's room. We
are. We're recording in Poe's roombecause Poe is not here, and Poe
has the most incredible mural on theirwalls, and so it's a very inspirational
and creative space to be in.But it's also a child's room, so
(00:38):
it feels very fitting, like itwould have died and gone to heaven to
be in here. We're sitting onthe floor, got wine. We've got
the computer balanced on Poe's little bed. It's just very cozy and sweet.
And there's like a cabbage patch dolland oh that's Tiger Baby baby. Oh.
(00:58):
And then there's your puffal lump.Oh yeah, there's my buffalo ump
and little Frida and Pineapple Cat.I recognize Pineapple Cat from like the eighties.
Yeah, Pineapple Cat is you knowthe cats? You know those cats
that were on all the eighties Tshirts and sweatshirts and did they wear red
(01:19):
sneakers? Yeah, it's from anairport. First things first, we're reading
here at the Spy by Louise Fitsyou chapter thirteen. Today we have heard
some feedback from Bloomheads, and theBloomheads would like us to hurry it along.
Okay, okay, good, okay, okay, okay. So next
(01:42):
episode we'll start maybe we'll start doingtwo chapters at a time. Yeah,
and we won't dwell. Yeah,I think we can do two chapters.
There's a lot of like repetition inthis book that we can kind of glaze
over. We need to go overevery minute detail. I think that's right.
Although I will say this episode isis the angsiest yet. Yeah.
Yeah, and it does feel likea moment of change. Mmm. Something's
(02:09):
gotta give after this episode. Igotta say totally with you. Before we
get into the book, though,I want to give it your super blated
birthday present. Just a little greenbag. Okay, okay, a little
green bag? What what? What? What? Where did this come from?
(02:36):
I ordered it a long time agoand it took forever to get here.
It's the most gorgeous green, kindof tallish mug. It's a good
size I like this size mug andit says rap think on it on the
back. Two there's more rappink.It has the rap fink on it.
Rap Think sixty six. Oh mygod, this is gorgeous. I'm so
(03:01):
glad you like it. There's alot of rat fink mugs on eBay.
There's eyeball flies. Look at thoseeyeball flies, bloodshot rat eyes called nightmare.
I like this. It's a verycute little candle with a little cute,
(03:23):
little happy face on it says feeling. Okay. That's my friend Kat's
candle company. I love it.And so she and her business partner make
these scented candle Those freaking delightful.And I thought of you when I saw
that one, because whenever we checkin on the phone and we're like,
how are you, yah, I'malways saying I'm fine, and you're always
(03:46):
saying I'm okay. Yeah. It'sactually been a resolution of mine lately to
stop masking at work because I nowhave to go into the office three days
a week, which is a challengefor me. I'm an introvert. I
want to be at home. Iwant to be alone. I want to
(04:06):
not look at a single other personwhile I do my work. So it's
been a challenge for me, butI've accepted that this is what I have
to do. But I'm gonna doit without masking and by being honest.
And when people ask me how Iam, when I say fine, okay,
(04:28):
shitty, I'm not gonna say ohI'm good's that's exhausting. Yeah,
it's really exhausting to just be like, oh I'm good. Yeah, and
then just all the small talk andall the saying hello, hi, hi,
hi hi. That's the part thatreally makes me so tired. And
so being okay is okay, Beingokay is okay. Well there you go.
(04:51):
That's gonna go on your desk atwork and you're gonna light that candle.
It's so good in response to people'squestions, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, how are you? Andyou hold out your can and just
like light it. You're like,I'm okay, okay. Maybe that's a
good way. Lighting a candle atmy desk is a good way to say
leave me the fuck alone. It'slike the sock on the door knob.
(05:13):
Honestly, the headphones aren't working.That used to be the universal, like
leave me alone at work? Rightnow? I keep I like look over
and someone's in my peripheral going hey, hey, hey, I'm like,
do I look like I want totalk? I have my big headphones on.
So this is perfect. I'm suitedup for it. Thank you so
(05:36):
much, Jody. I love thesepresents. You're welcome. It's a good
way to age as long as there'sgifts. How is your boba cake thing?
By the way, Oh amazing?Really? Yes, everything you sent
was? I sent Jody a littletreats, little treats for her birthday.
We have September Birthday girls, SeptemberBirthday girls. Treats, some flowers.
(06:00):
Where was it from Craftsmen and Wolves? They're doing some wild little cakes.
I mean, I love their classicwith it. I know it egg muffin
usure, but yeah, I neverthey've been mixing it up. They've been
getting into the cofection game. Shoutout Craftsmen and Wolves shut out. So
(06:34):
chapter thirteen, huh, chapter thirteen, that's the one lucky number thirteen.
Now we're gonna hurt it up.We're gonna charge ahead. But this episode
you get chapter thirteen. Ral Iwas pretty. I was really pretty.
(06:57):
So we got a regular regular crew, got Harriet m Welsh, our angsty
gal, her parents, mom anddad, her cook, mention of Old
Golly, our beloved nurse, andthen the school kids We've got Sport and
(07:17):
Janie and Rachel Hennessy and Carrie Andrewsand Marion Hawthorne, Beth Ellen, Pinky
Whitehead, Laura Peters, the Boywith the Purple socks, and the teachers,
Miss Elson and Miss Harris. Havewe heard of Miss Harris before?
Miss Harris is the math teacher.Yeah, she was. In the last
episode. She got very angry atHarriet about the notebooking class. Oh that
(07:43):
was her. Okay, I can'tkeep track of all these times. You
know, there's a lot of teachers, there's a lot to keep track of,
a lot of kids. But man, the boy with the purple socks
continues to surprise me. I thinkhe's the strongest of them all. Yeah,
I think he is the most powerful. Harriet is now officially banned from
(08:03):
having a notebook on her person.Wow, it feels very it's apt like,
it feels like it is what needsto happen, but also feels very
violating that she can't have this outlet. Like we said last week, it's
her one friend that has been snatchedaway. She is not dealing with us
(08:24):
very well. Every morning, she'sfrisked by her mom before leaving for school,
and then when she gets to school, miss Elson also pats her down.
They're like fucking TSA agent's over here. Apparently the cook's hanging onto the
notebook in some secret place. Idon't think that cook should be in charge
(08:45):
of anything. No, you know, the cook is reading the notebook.
Yeah, of course, I meanmaybe if she can read? Is that
rude? Mean? I just don'ttrust her. Harriet's in a mood.
She's turning into a scary, scarylittle sociopath, big big sociopath vibes.
(09:07):
She's somewhere between like depressed and apatheticand then on the other end, yeah,
like rageful and vengeful. And that'skind of the scariest combination you can
get. Yeah, a violent nihilisYeah, like we got Janie was scary,
wanting to blow up the school.Like Harriet's gone a little next level
(09:31):
with it. Mm hmm. Shedoesn't care about the things she used to
care about, you know, thebig things, like writing her name on
a piece of paper. And evenher thoughts now are like slow and sparse.
It's not like when she's writing andher thoughts just flow freely and ideas
come out. All she can thinkof right now is the phrase I feel
(09:54):
different. I feel different to hervery slowly, and then it morphs into
something so terrifying. I feel me. Oh no, she has changed,
she says, like Gizmo turning intoa gremlin, or like a werewolf situation.
(10:20):
She's growing a hair on her palms. Yeah, her nails are coming
out. I'm frightened. It isbig gremlin goblin and her teeth. Yeah,
she says she'll never forget this moment. When the bell rings for lunch,
she does something without even really planningit. This shocked me. She
(10:41):
sticks out her foot to trip Pinkywhite Head in his tracks as he runs
down the aisle for lunch, andhe's injured. He's got like a bloody
nose. He's crying and writhing onthe floor. And Harrod's just staring with
a blank look on her face.I mean, like we said, sociopath,
right, Yeah, when there's blood, things are bad. She says.
(11:05):
She feels satisfied at once. Shesits by herself. She's described as
owl eyed. She felt her thoughtslimping like crippled children. Amazing writing,
Yeah, sounds good writing. Yeah. As the kids crowd around the cafeteria
(11:28):
door, she reaches over and shedoes her second act of violence. She
pinches Carrie Andrew's on the leg likeso hard. It's a hard, sneaky
pinch. Carrie screams, But thenagain Harriet just looks ahead with a blank
stare on her face. Violence.It says in the book that no one
(11:52):
would have suspected her for this pinchaction because she's never pinched anyone in her
life. But we know that's wrong. Never forget the burping three year old
neighbor that she pinched on the bus. Yeah, she's pinched before, She's
pinched babies. Yeah, you know, there's like the the show's like wive
(12:15):
sit kill. It's like girls thatpinch, Like she's a pinching terror.
Oh my god, snapped, yeah, snapped, snapped, colon girls that
pinch, pinched, pinched girls thatpinch. Yeah that. In math class,
(12:39):
Mss Harris is just going on andon and on about numbers and a
bridge and like something about lamb chopsand boats. Harriet's like, I don't
get math. I've never paid attentionin this class. Why would I?
Now? She's like, numbers arejust like swirling around me. I've never
heard of this. So her nexther third act of violence is upon us.
(13:03):
She takes a crumpled up piece ofpaper and throws it at sports ear,
and then after that she throws apencil at Beth Ellen's face. Oh
my god. And these kids arejust like, what the fuck? They're
starting to fear her. Yeah,I mean as as they should. They
should have known better than to messwith her. They should have read that
(13:28):
book and thought, well, she'sunhinged. We should not make a club
to, you know, harass hermore. Maybe we should leave her alone.
You know, they're learning the hardway. And I think what scares
the most is not like the pinchingand the pencils. It's the look that's
on her face. It's like I'mdead inside. Yeah. And so this
(13:50):
is where I have to harken backto our last episode where there was the
services Go Examiner review of the Harrietthe Spy movie where they called her terrible
and said, you know, inthe book like she's like a tiny feminist,
and she in the movie she's terrible. And it's like, no,
she's terrible. Everywhere everywhere you findHarriet, she's bad, a tiny feminist.
(14:13):
I have not seen a spark ofthat yet. No, she's just
a tiny sociopath what my dad wouldhave called ASBO back in the day in
England antisocial behavior. You get WHOAlike you know, you get in trouble
with the police and then you're labeledin ASBO. Whoa. I want a
(14:37):
special report on that. Yeah,I'll have to verify that. Yeah.
Please. After school, Harriet runshome as usual and bangs into the cook
for the hundredth time. The firstthing she does is demand her notebook.
Give me my notebook? Please?What notebook? What do you mean my
(14:58):
notebook? My notebook? Listen tome. You apologize for almost knocking me
to the floor. I apologize,all right, my notebook? Oh all
right, all right. Can't youwait just one minute to get the soap
off my hands? No? No, no, no, no no,
(15:22):
I can't wait. I want itnow, all right, all right?
The cook washes her hands, drivesthem and reaches down under the sink from
way back in the back. Shepulls out the notebook with a little cleansers
filled on it. Harriet grabs itand runs out of the room. Hey,
(15:43):
how about your cake and milk?She forgot her cake and milk for
the first time in her life.She runs up to her room, finally
gets to open her notebook on herbed and just looks at all the pages
with her handwriting, and she's sore sure to see her writing on the
page. It's still there, ithasn't disappeared. And then she starts to
(16:07):
write and write and write and writeand write, and she feels better.
Her soul is like being cleansed,the sheer belief of communication. She thinks,
she sits, and she thinks,since she thinks, since she writes
in her book again, something isdefinitely happening to me. I am changing.
(16:30):
I don't feel like me at all. I don't ever laugh or think
anything funny. I just feel meall over. I would like to hurt
each one of them in a specialway that would hurt only yam. Oh
my god. And then she makesa list about all the ways that she's
(16:52):
going to hurt her friends. It'slike a manifesto, you know, it's
like a real, real thing.It's like a burn book on steroids.
For maryon Hawthorne frogs, she's gonnaput one in her desk, but a
snake would be better. For RachelHennessy, she's gonna talk about her father,
(17:15):
ask her where he went for LauraPeters her hair. She's gonna cut
it off or make a bald spotfor Pinky whitehead. Mean, looks that's
all he needs. Carrie Andrews,she's gonna tell her father something terrible about
(17:36):
her, which is a lie.For Bethellen Hanson, she hates to be
hit, so she's gonna hit her. For Jane, she's gonna break her
little finger, and for Sport.She's gonna call him a sissy and tell
everyone he reads cookbooks. But shecan't think of anything to do for the
(18:00):
boy with the purple socks? Isthis because he's she can sense that he's
above and beyond the average human being. He has superpowers, perhaps, But
in her book she writes, he'sjust too dull. He's just too dull.
She can't think of anything for him. All she could think about is
purple socks. So all of thisreminds me of the documentary The Curious Case
(18:26):
of Natalia Grace. Oh my god, but this is like the Harriet's like
the girl everyone thinks she is.She's hiding knives under her pillow. Yes.
The next day, all Harriet canthink about is revenge. She taunts
Rachel Hennessy asks about her father wherehe is so much so that she makes
(18:52):
her cry, and she finds afrog to put Mary in Hawthorne's desk.
She even chops Peter's hair. Couldyou even imagine? It's just so freaking
mean. I actually can remember girlsand people being very mean to one another,
and once we got to around fifthsixth grade, and the worst thing
(19:15):
you could do is put gum insomeone. Oh yeah, it was so
mean somehow, like in a wayit's meaner than chopping, yeah, because
it could do more damage, andthen you have to deal with it all
and then realize you have to thenchop it, right, You have to
go through the motions of like maybeI can get this out with peanut butter,
and then eventually chop it. Choppingit does get straight to the punch,
(19:41):
you know what. I hope shecomes back with a cute pixie cut
and all the rage and everyone wantstheir hair to look like her. Straight
up, Julie Andrew's it. Yes, yes, yeah, so Mary and
Hawthorne opens her desk and remember Harriethas found a frog for her. It's
(20:02):
poor frog. Harriet had never seensuch confusion or heard such screams in her
life. It was extremely gratifying.It was as though the whole class erupted
in a volcanic shower of cries,running yelps, and tumbling bodies. No
one at first knew what had happened. Marian screamed so loudly that everyone jumped
(20:25):
up. Then when they saw whatappeared to be a small brown spot leaping
from desk to desk, onto achild's shoulder, onto another desk, from
there to an arm, they losttheir heads completely, Without being able to
tell what about. In the confusion, Harriet got a plant and walked home.
That is honestly the best written paragraphof this whole book, I think.
(20:48):
So. I noticed that there wassome artistry there. Yeah, it's
gorgeous, Harriet, Like I said, walked home. It's not the end
of day, midday. She's justwalked herself home, like she set the
school on fire. And it's justlike heathers. Yeah, it's exactly what
I'm thinking. It's very heather.She just walks herself home and cigarette,
(21:12):
Yeah, smoky little hair. Thecook's like, where the fuck, what
what are you doing here? Harriet? Like why are you here? But
she says all of this in awhisper, and Harry yells, why are
you whispering? The cook says,because I have a new cake in the
(21:33):
oven. Don't bounce, don't walkheavy, don't shout where it will fall.
It must be a soup fle Yeah, so it's interesting, I uh
google some googling, uh huh,and very delicate cakes. It's true.
If there's any kind of vibration,any big movements, sound can do that,
(21:56):
you know. Really, so youdo need to be like a little
bit careful. It's not terrible,right. It is like it's like half
old wives tale, half truth.There's something to it. It is rooted
in something. But I do thinkin today's age it's harder, like they're
(22:17):
sturdier ovens, sturdier floors. Butback then it was it was a concern.
I'm so glad you looked into that. Thank you. It's important to
me. So Harriet, being thevengeful, spiteful child that she is,
(22:37):
she knocks over a chair, shejumps around, she yells, she stomps,
and that cake it falls. Thecook screams, look what you've done,
you terrible child? That does it? I quit? I have to
(23:00):
put up with one more day.I will go start raving, yelling crazy,
and it's not worth it for whenI get paid. Harry just goes
up to her room. She laysaround, she looks at the ceiling.
All she can think about is oldGolly, old Gully, Old Gully,
old Golly. All she can thinkabout. And I remembered in this moment
(23:22):
that she is grieving. She haslost this most important person in her life,
and she hasn't had the support andguidance and care and all of that
to be able to handle this.So I do have a moment of compassion
for Harriet. You're right. Idon't want to have that compassion because it's
(23:44):
more fun to hate her, butyou're so right. Yeah, she has
not been propped up. No,And she is in a delicate time of
her life, a delicate age whereshe is facing hard time. She's been
betrayed by her friends, she's hadher diary read, she's had all of
her innermost personal thoughts laid out bearto the world. Yeah, she's going
(24:10):
through it. But then her momreturns home and she can hear her mom
and the cook having a talk.I'm quitting, I tell you, I'm
tired of being run into every dayand being screamed at, and now she's
stomped my cake and that doesn't Ohplease don't leave us now we need you.
I wouldn't stay for all the moneyin the world. I'm leaving right
(24:34):
now. What about a five dollarraise? I think we could see our
way clear. Something better be doneabout that, Harriet. I hate to
leave you in the lurch, butshe run into me one more time,
or pull a nasty trick like stompingmy cake, and that's it. I
understand. I'm a cook, nota nurse, of course, I understand
(24:57):
completely. Harriet's in her room andall she can think about is old Golli,
old Golli, old Golli, oldgolly. And the cook goes back
to the kitchen kind of stomping around, and Harriet's mom comes up the stairs.
Harriet, what's the matter with you? Harriet? Do you know what
(25:21):
my day has been like? Ihad a frantic call at the hairdressers to
come to your school. Immediately Iwent over there and heard how you had
spent your morning, that Laura Petersis practically going to have to have her
head shaved. Marian Hawthorne went homesick, and Miss Elson was on the
verge of tears. She was sowrought up she'll probably never get over it.
(25:44):
She says, it was bedlam forhours. Then I come home to
find the cook quitting. Well,luckily I saved that situation. But Harriet,
this has gone too far. Nowyou're going to have to sit up
and talk to me. What doyou think you're doing? Harriet does nothing,
nothing at all. She doesn't move, She doesn't say a peep.
(26:07):
Harriet, your father will be homein an hour. If you're not talking
to me by then, you'll haveto talk to him. Just then,
she hears her father come in thedoor. Oh, I just can't cope
with this kind of thing. Icome home from the office and I want
some piece I'm white and a martini. I come home tonight and the ice
(26:33):
bucket isn't even filled. You're practicallyraving. I can hear that think of
a cook all the way from thekitchen. She's yelling so loud. Can
you tell me you just gave hera five dollar raise? Now makes sense?
Woman? Oh my god, Dadterrible, oh terrible. And she
(26:56):
hears them go into the library andkind of close the door. Harriet's staring
into the abyss, you know,thinking nothing, having no thoughts at all,
almost falling asleep, just truly disassociatingin these moments. And her father
(27:17):
stomps up the stairs. Nary isin the doorway. Harrian, are you
asleep? Harriet? Answer me?She just lay there. Listen. I
know perfectly well you're not asleep.I used to do the same thing to
my father. So you just situp and talk to me. As she
(27:42):
sits up in one perfectly coordinated motion, just truly, she sits up,
and as she sits up, swinglike, just truly, flings her shoe
at her father, sucking. Shegives no fucks. Well, oh ah,
(28:03):
something has to be done. Thischild come in here. I think
we'd better call the what the Sheslams the door shut on him, and
she just lays back down as ifshe'd never done a thing. She never
moved a muscle, she'd never thoughtabout her father even coming in the door.
She's done. She just thinks,wait until I break Jenny's finger.
(28:32):
She's no remorse, No, nota remorseful bone in this girl's body.
And she falls asleep like almost sosatisfied with with what she'd done. She's
at peace. Yeah, she's atpeace. She wakes up in the night,
and her mom's changing her outfit,you know, changing her out of
her day clothes into her pajamas,tucks her in, and she sleeps blissfully.
(29:02):
Maybe she just needed to get allthat out of her system, and
maybe she's going to wake up inthe morning, you know, repentant and
calm and good and well rested.Do you think maybe I just keep thinking.
So I went climbing the other night, rock climbing, and I had
(29:23):
a mental breakdown on the wall.I couldn't I got up high enough on
a route, but I couldn't getup any higher. And I also was
struggling to get back down, likeI'd really gotten myself up to a certain
point, like with as much strengthas I had left, and I couldn't
find my way back. And Iwas having a mild panic attack and kind
(29:45):
of stressed. And my heart ratewas so high. Did your r ring
tell you no? I watched myno, all of my you know,
wearables, My watch told me thatmy heart rate was like one hundred and
seventy five, Like it was sohigh. I got and I was so,
so so stressed, and eventually Igot myself down after a few minutes,
(30:07):
and it was fine. But I'dburned so many calories by being so
stressed, and I slept so well. Wow, I think that is a
good parallel to this situation. Yeah, I feel like she's burning so much
energy by being so vengeful and beingso stressed that she just has nothing left
(30:30):
to give but sleep. That isso insightful. Oh my god, I'm
so thankful you shared this moment becauseit makes so much sense. And maybe
Louise fits you knows what she's doingafter all the Yeah, the exhaustion of
hatred. Yeah, of stress totally. One more question, who do you
(30:55):
think dad is gonna call? Ithink we better call. At first,
I was like the cops. Ohgolly, maybe Carrie Andrew's dad. Maybe
the institution, maybe the home forwayward girls. Oh maybe this book's gonna
go all a girl interrupted on us. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
(31:18):
that'd be good. Like you said, I do feel like we're on
the precipice of real change here.So let's see chapter fourteen takes us.
Yep, we're gonna we'll do chapterfourteen fifteen mm hm, next week.
Will power through the rest of thebook. But I am excited to hear
where we go, Like, howdo we wrap this all up? How
will this end? No idea tobe honest, I honest know, I'm
(31:42):
truly having even seen the movie,Like, I'm just kind of in my
adult age mystified by how they mighttie this all up and what lesson there
is to potential here? Probably none. But before we get to that,
(32:06):
I want to tell you about pigeonscausing cancer. Oh my gosh, please
tell me everything. So I thinkit was last week or maybe the week
before. I think it was lastweek, Harriet mentions that, oh,
no, pigeons give you cancer.We were like, what what? What
is that? I learned a lot. Let me lead you through my research
(32:29):
journey. First, I came acrosspigeon fanciers lung. That's what they call
the lung complications that can be associatedwith pigeon owning dirty birds. Yeah,
well, so a lot of itis transmitted through their poop. They've got
all sorts of things in their poop. Oh, But people who raise pigeons
(32:50):
and spend a lot of time aroundpigeons and pigeon poop have been known to
get severe, debilitating breathing difficulties.And patients can get symptoms years after exposure.
Oh my god, pigeon Fancier's lung. Yeah, what a name.
It sounds very old timy, likeyou couldn't even get it. Now there's
(33:12):
something similar that's like hen Fancier's lung. I think it's just Wow, it's
not just pigeons. It's like,maybe not get that intimate with bird poop.
Yeah, okay, exactly. Pigeonpoop can transmit over sixty diseases.
What just like just generally, likeso like it is really bad if a
pigeon poop's on you, like juston the street, not if it's just
(33:36):
once. I think this is ifyou're just surrounding yourself with pigeons for a
prolonged amount of time, like maybeif you're like the Feed the Birds lady
and Mary Poppins, or if youare a pigeon fancier or you know,
like a lot of people are breeders. Well remember the time the pigeon came
down my chimney, Yeah, andthen it pooped on my jacket. I
(34:00):
mean you might have to look outfor pigeons fanciers. No, wait,
didn't Pepper chomped it? But yeah, one chomp, one, chomp,
one, chomp, goodbye. I'msorry. It was just it was a
thing that happened. There's nothing wecould have done. Yeah, let's move
(34:20):
on to the cancer part, please. Studies in Germany and I believe the
nineties showed that there was an increasedrisk of lung cancer found among people exposed
to pet birds. So we can'tjust blame pigeons. Ow. This will
turn me off. I've been thinkingabout parakeets. I thought of you,
I'm off. I'm off it now, Well, wait till I'm gone.
(34:44):
They didn't quite understand why, sothey say, until the patho genesis,
Until the pathogenesis is understood, longterm exposure to pet birds and living areas
should be avoided, especially among peopleat high risk of developed lung cancer.
So that was not good news toany smoking bird owners, you know.
(35:07):
But that was the nineties, andI think, uh, scientists understand a
little more now, and I wantedto not be biased, so I went
to pigeonpause dot com thank you,and they say no, there is currently
no evidence to suggest that pigeons cancause cancer and humans. Although these birds
carry diseases that can spread diseases tohumans, no scientific evidence links birds to
(35:29):
cancer, and I think that appliesto most birds in general. Okay,
okay, but there is a linkof pigeons to cancer, but it's because
they can actually detect cancer. Ohoh, so they're noticing it. Scientists
trained a group of sixteen pigeons tolook at slides of cells of both cancerous
(35:52):
and non cancerous tissue. They hadthem in this like little isolation box with
us a TV screen in front ofthem with a projection of cells, and
the pigeon would like, you know, click a button like benign or malignant,
and then they would get a treatif they were right. So they're
not like smelling it, they're like, look, they're looking at the microscope.
(36:15):
Oh hi, Okay. So overthe course of the first month of
training, their accuracy got as highas eighty percent, what which is good
but not as good as human experts. And what they discovered was that the
wisdom of the flock was far moreaccurate. So they showed the same images
(36:36):
to different birds, and by combiningtheir guesses, the accuracy rose to ninety
nine percent, which is on parwith human experts and more reliable than computers.
Okay, I'm just trying to understandthe the use. Okay, okay,
(36:59):
but like, tell me more aboutthese pigeons scientists in their little I
think they don't need to get paid. I think like the human labor of
like looking over hundreds and hundreds ofslides of you know, breast tissue,
I think it was breast cancer specifically. So breast tissue just costs money.
But if you've got these cute littlepigeons, you can just pay with pellets.
(37:21):
Sure, why not? And they'refun And really it comes down to
they have great eyesight, like mostbirds have really good eyesight. They can
detect more colors than humans. Andimportantly, their brains don't fill in the
gaps when there's missing information like humanbrains do. You know, Like if
(37:42):
we have a blind spot, ourbrain will fill it in as if we're
seeing it, so we falsely identifythings or we fall for optical illusions a
lot pigeons do not. Wow,that's cool, yeah, so yay,
So you can get your parakeet afterall, all okay, and when it's
time for your mammogram, you canjust uh, I'll show my biopsy just
(38:07):
like flash them, yeah, justflash them exactly, we see if they
do anything totally totally okay, andthat's all I got. Wow, what
a report. That's one of myall time faves. I'm so glad in
true bloom saloon style. There isvery little scientific knowledge involved, but some
(38:28):
fun facts that I found on theinternet. Cool. That's all. Wait,
this has been great, Poe.Thank you for letting us use your
room. Thank you. My favoriteis the banana, Have a banana a
banana, Bye bye the ba
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