August 4, 2025 • 59 mins
"Beginner's Love," chapters 4-5. Molly and Jody amble through this 1983 Norma Klein teen romance AND kick off their "Para-Norma Investigation" thanks to an anonymous tipster. Meanwhile, Joel and Leda touch tongues, Berger dispenses bad advice from his cigarette bed, and Hopie gets exactly what she wants. The gals talk Inferiority Complexes, glasses makeouts, humans with dog names, and perform radio plays. It's a (sometimes) Judy Blume book club. Join us every week!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm Jodie and I'm Mollie and you're listening to the
Blue Saloon.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's a Blue book clubs.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, everybody, sorry for skipping a week now, Like we're
really off schedule because we did a double week and
then we did a non week. I have had COVID.
I my first COVID. I just told Mollie. I think
it's because when I was bragging about never having COVID
(00:44):
before on the pod, I didn't knock on wood.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
So stay safe out there, kids, you gotta be.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, bring a little piece of wood with you wherever
you go, because it's real. Okay, I've lost my I
smell and taste completely and bloom heads. If you have
any advice on this, like if this has happened to you,
and if you found anything that helped you get your
(01:13):
taste and smell back, or like any foods that brought
you any kind of joy to eat in the process,
please let me know, because like, this is.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
The saddest, the saddest side effect. I'm so depressed about it.
I'm sorry, And it's really weird.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Because I never realized how much I rely on my
smell to know if I need a shower or not. Like,
not being able to smell if I stink is so trippy.
I mean, yes, I should be showering every day, but
you know what, sometimes sometimes I don't.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Especially if you're not It's hard.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah that, oh man. So I'm really trying to maintain
my hygiene. Farting and not smelling it is very weird.
I miss the smell of my dog's breath so much. God,
that's the little things.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh man.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
But this is a joy to be here. This is
the one bright spot in my day. Yeah, and thanks
for joining us, bloomheads. We're reading Norma Klein Beginner's Love
chapters five, four and five today.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Before we get into a do you want to do
our judy minuity?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Oh? Yes, you go first this time. I feel like
I always go first.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Okay, So this is the segment of a show where
we take one minute or less to talk about the
most judy bloom thing that happened to us this week.
I feel like I had a pretty judy bloom day yesterday.
My friend from San Francisco was in town. But she
actually we grew up in the same place in southern California.
(03:00):
Like adjacent cities in southern California, and I didn't know
her then, so she's staying with her parents, and so
I went back to that neighborhood to come hang out
with her, and we went to the beach, and it
was just really funny to be going back to like
places I used to know in high school as an adult,
I don't really have occasion to do that a lot,
and I don't even really have that many friends from
(03:21):
high school that I still talk to, So it was
funny that, like this was like a friend from a
whole other part of my life that we're tracing similar
high school stuff with. So that was really interesting, and
it is funny like things that like only well I
don't know only but like that we specifically had in
common going to school in like the same school district
like now, Tody, when you were in school, And was
(03:46):
there any kind of like official mandate to not wear
gang colors? No, Okay, maybe that's an LBC thing, because
we were both like, yeah, of course, remember that in
school where they said please don't wear crip colors? That
was we had that. So yeah, we had that in common.
(04:07):
And we took a walk and went to the beach
and it was fun and then later, because my dad
still lives in that part of town, I went to
go have dinner with my dad and we took a
walk in the neighborhood and that was fun too, felt
old timey. My dad had like the most dad conversation
I've ever heard in real life. We were walking past
(04:27):
a man who was watering his lawn and the man
had a hat on and my dad had a similar
hat on, and they just talked about hats for like
three minutes, back and forth, dad style.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It was so fun. Kind of hats were they wearing.
I need to picture those, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
So.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Of course they had both bought them at the same
hat shop, just in the neighborhood. And the fact that
the neighborhood has a hat shop, I think kind of
tells about the kind of neighborhood it is. Yeah, they
were both like straw dad hats, and my dad complimented
this guy's and this guy was like, Oh, it's a stetson,
and then my dad was like, oh, I love stetson
(05:05):
blah blah, And then they were talking about washing it
and wearing it and it's funny. My dad's hat was
more of like a Panama hat. That's kind of his
go to hat. And this guy had a wider brim. Yeah,
but that was really funny. And then the last Judy
Bloom thing that happened on that same walk is we
found a little boy who was selling lemonade in his
(05:27):
front yard and we thought, oh, how cute. But then
this little kid had like crazy branding, Like he had
his lemonade cooler had his logo on it, and the
cups had a logo on it, and there was a
branded like straw and he gave us our lemonades and
he was like, that's six dollars each, Like six dollars, Travis,
(05:50):
you are wild and out, that's wild.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Better have vodka in there, well, to.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
His to his credit, it was again in a branded
plastic cup.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yes, and you gotta pay for those stickers somehow.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yes, And it was flavored, so we put a pump
of watermelon in there and then put like sour candy
rings on the straw. So I'm gonna say it was
high quality. But never in my entire life have I
paid six American dollars for a yard lemonade.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
That is fudge. I mean, yes, that's what's the next
fudge book. We haven't read yet. The Double Fudge.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
I've never read that one, but I know that one
is money, money, money.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yes, there's something about money with it. And I think
there might be a lemonade stand, so that's so funny.
The candy rings, though, that's very swig from Yes, the
Mormon dirty soda culture.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yes, yes, And I have been to swig, so I
can tell you it is.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It is like, I'm so jealous you've been to Swig. Yeah,
go to swigs so bad.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I think Swig is not my culture because I don't
like sweet things. And even I will say even this,
like lemonade was a little too sweet for my blood.
So I did not super enjoy Swig when I was
But God bless anybody who does Mormon God bless. Yeah.
So that was my whole day of judy feelings yesterday.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
That is pretty perfect. I can't imagine a better judy day.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah. What about you?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, I haven't really done much because I've been sick.
But and I told you this when you did your
back call on Instagram. But oh yea. My mom had
to take me to urgent care when I first started
feeling sick because I was in Houston for work. I
caught COVID from a little girl on the plane. I
(07:49):
know it was her way.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Really she like coffin Vibian, Vibian, Oh that's such a
beautiful name.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
No, she was Mary, more like the weedest little girl.
And I usually never talk to people on planes. I'm
like headphones in, you know, do my crossword puzzle whatever.
But I had my dog Bo with me, and Bo
is very cute and he attracts people wherever he goes,
and so this little girl and her mom wanted to
sit next to us. So Vivian, could, you know, play
(08:18):
with Bo? And she was seven years old, very talkative,
and normally I'm like, oh, children, but she really won
me over and so we talked the whole time. She
like almost cried when we had to get off the
plane to say goodbye. She made her mom take down
my number, and she invited me to Christmas and she
(08:41):
kept saying we're best friends. Now, we're best friends, right. Yes,
she was so cute, yes, because I'm like, who else
would it have been? Or she was like talking in
my face for three and a half hours straight.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It's so funny. That's sad. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
And I even took pictures of her with bo because
she was so cute and it was like a fun moment.
So I have this picture of this like vaulted. Yeah,
patient zero, uh huh oh ah.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
But no.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
But then, so I was in Houston working for a
few days at my client's office, and like slowly each
day feeling worse and worse. But I was just like,
it's allergies, you know. And then on the third day,
I came home to my mom's because I was staying
at my mom's and like collapsed on the floor. Literally,
I'm like laying in a heap on the floor, and
(09:38):
she took me to urgent care and it was just like, oh.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Mommy, oh no, thank you. That is It reminds me
of I think, is it Sally J. Friedman when she's
so worried to like have her mom pick her up
from school because her mom's at work, and then her
mom come gets her and she's like, oh, honey, I'm sorry,
I know you were actually sick.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Wait, no, is.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
That not Sally J. That's some Oh you know what,
I'm sorry, I'm do you know what that is? That's
Ramona Quimby, age eight.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, that sounds very Ramona.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Okay, never mind. But what you do need to know
There was.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
A Sally j moment where she was sick and her
mom didn't believe her and she threw up. I think
it was after the like post war celebrations.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yes, exactly that. And then now you need to have
precious red wine come and take care of you will
yourself precious.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I love our Judy Minudi. It's such a fun highlight
of our little thing here that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And I get a joy every Friday when we do
it on Instagram. You guys are so creative. But I
also feel like I know more about everybody's like gi
track than I have thought it, or like everybody's like
internal mechanism, because everyone's always like I'm got a bladder
and fish. Oh okay, Hello? Oh what that sound? Is
(10:57):
it your tea boy? Hello? Hello?
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Hello?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
That was scary? Who was that? Wait?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
What happened?
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Did you hear that?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
What the fuck? Oh my god, Jody, I think that
ghost was on the call. I don't know what happened.
What happened happen? Oh my god? No, hello, gosh, no,
going on? There is a ghost. Something is spooky as happening.
(11:39):
So what just happened was when you were talking, I
heard what sounded like a kettle going off, like like
a kettle like screaming. And then I heard this voice
and it sounded like this. It sounded like, uh, oh hello.
So I don't know if it's my phone freaking out
(12:00):
and that was you, and it like it is like glitching,
so it lost your voice or whatever. Wait, but it
was so scary. And then the phone then the call
hung up.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Wait, wait, wait, I think I know it. No, it's
not a go. It would be so fun if it was.
But I think it was Tyler taking the car. And
then I think my phone connected to the car blew
tube because I can see that he just pulled out
(12:30):
of the drive.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Oh that's so funny. That's exactly what happened. Oh god,
that was scary.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
So Tyler turned on the car and he hears you're
talking about like, g I trove.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I just said, hi, Oh that's so funny. Well, oh god,
all right, well let's get up. Let's get up the
show on the road.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Let's do it. Okay, scary, We have a new segment.
(13:21):
This is called the Pata Norma. What are we calling it?
Para norma? Norma investigation Investigations. That's right, Thank you Molly
for coming up with that. We have a bluemhead who
shall remain anonymous until they say it's okay to reveal
their name. But for now, anonymous source Deep Throat, has
(13:46):
decided to share some Norma archives with us. Now. This
person has been in communication with Norma's family, had letters,
had artwork, also worts of documents, and they have been
very kind in sharing with us. Oh, so here's where
(14:10):
we're going to start. Hello, I have attached some documents
for you to review. I'd appreciate it if you would
not include my name if you decide to share anything.
When we communicated several years ago, I did not feel
comfortable sharing the attached letter. However, last summer, I was
in Minneapolis to visit a friend. Went to the University
(14:30):
of Minnesota Library Kerlin Flection Room. They received Normous papers
from her family after her death. The papers clearly addressed
for mental health struggles. This leads me to believe that
it would be okay to share her cause of death.
Normous husband wrote a speech about her life and death,
which was in the papers. I've attached it. I've also
(14:50):
attached a letter which I received from Aileen phi Olsen,
now a deceased, about her experiences writing Norma Kline's autobiography.
The letter a us as Norma's cause of death. And
then this person goes on to say that they will
be sharing more information, so don't worry. The power of
normal investigations will continue. But I'm going to read this letter.
(15:13):
This one is from the husband's speech. It sounds like, yes, yes,
this is from Erwin Flessner. When we think of Norma
at a time like this, the tragedy of her early death,
a life cut short, comes back to us. We would
like an explanation for her suffering. Medical science and psychology
(15:35):
have no real answer. We lapse into frustration, which only
adds to the pain of our grief. I want to
talk about something different, which is that, taking the fact
of her life as it was, there was something miraculous
in what she was able to do, not just in
her writing, but how she touched the lives of many people,
family friends, other writers, readers of books, and her students
(15:59):
at Washer and Yale. In the fifty years of her life,
there was a following of her talent for communicating thoughts
and feelings in person and on the page. So in
our sadness, we should also remember how special it was,
how we were taken by surprise by this outpouring of life,
a life savored in conversation, lives imagined and invented in
(16:21):
her writing. The words that I had engraved on her
stone have many associations for me. Most of all, I
think of standing in the hall, looking into the living
room where she is seated at her desk. Each day
something new happening there. She usually began in the morning
by typing a letter to a friend. Then the characters
(16:42):
in her book would step out into her mind's eye
and spring to life on the typed page. Reaching the
end of a manuscript, she sometimes wept at having to
part with her characters. As we remember Norma. Let us
think about the abundance of beauty in her life. Irwin
Fleisner And this was written January fifteenth, nineteen ninety four.
(17:02):
Oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Mean that kind of and the way that the source
couched it kind of makes me think that maybe she
died by suicide.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, that's when I'm thinking, And you know, it makes
sense why it was. It's been such a mystery to
the public.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I think we got to keep an eye on this
and like learn more about this, and I'm excited to
kind of pour through those sources.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yes, thank you so much, deep throat. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, let's call them. Let's call him Kleinstein.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Oh god, you're so good, Kleinstein.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Okay, thank you, Kleinstein.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Thank you so much, Kleinstein. Well let's get into roll call.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Okay. The first thing I must say, if this this
episode is brought to us anything, let it be brought
to us by the name Lassie fucking Bligeon. Oh my god.
H Never in my entire reading life have I read
(18:17):
a name that shocked me more than Lassie Bligeon. What
kind of hunger games? Lass name is? Lassie Bligeon?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I was reading it before bed last night and I
almost texted you, but I'm like, baby, cannot text someone
at eleven thirty at night, Lassie Bligeon in all caps.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
No, you can. This is your permission forevermore that, yes
you should.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Oh my god. Well to introduce her Lassie blige is,
it's a girl Joel makes out with at camp who
is a good writer. But again, her name, Lassie Bligeon.
We also have Joel, who's our narrator, who's seventeen. Burger,
(19:11):
who is Joel's best friend and who again we find
out this episode Burger is his first name. Yes, Burger
is his first human name. What is happening this week?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Man.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
We have Burger's dad, who is a horn dog and
is rich. We have Hope, Burger's eleven year old sister
who Joel can't stop googling. We have Lida, also seventeen.
She's blonde, she's cool, she's feisty. We have Leda's dad,
(19:46):
who owns a theater AND's, as they say in this chapter,
like old. I can't I didn't do any.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Math, but uh they Oh I did the math. Oh,
we'll get there, okay.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
And then we have Lassie Blidgeon and then unnamed twenty
one year old actor who made out with Lida. I
think those are all the new characters we have. Chapter four.
This is right after we've seen Lida's mom in the
production of Salome, and it's her and Joel go back
(20:25):
to Lyda's apartment, which is near the theater, and she
says it's okay to come over because her parents usually
go out after the play, but she says, if you
come over when my dad comes home, he's gonna want
to drive you home because he doesn't think it's safe
to wander around New York at night. And she says
that kind of like, oh, parents, but it's also like
(20:49):
nineteen eighties New York, like I bet it wasn't safe
to be wandering around at night, and so she kind
of explains that, like, oh, sorry, my parents are stodgy.
They're old. She says, Danny's parents are just around forty,
but mom wanted to really give it her all to
(21:10):
her career, so they didn't even have me till she
was thirty eight and he was forty, and like, I'm
their only child, so they tend to be mildly obsessive
about some things.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
When I was that age, I was not thinking about
how old people's parents are, Like, oh, once you're going
over the age of thirty five, you're all the same. Yeah.
I wasn't like sitting around gossiping about parents' ages, right,
It wasn't interesting to us. And so it's funny that
these kids like have a whole big combo about it.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I know, I'm trying to think now that you mentioned
I feel like I only knew of one friend who
I'm like, Oh, her parents seem way older, and I
actually don't know if they were or not, but she
knew It's funny. It was probably like my most Leada
like friend. Her parents lived right by in my high
school and they both did theater too, So interesting, uh
(22:01):
but good for I feel like this chapter keeps having
mixed messages re Leita's mom and her choice to be
an actor, and I don't know how to feel about
it because I feel like those are similar mixed messages
that I personally feel like I'm always getting. So we'll
get We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
(22:22):
But Joel also says his parents are old, and he
says that he and his brother are fifteen years apart,
which is kind of interesting. I do feel like certain
families are like that, where it's like, WHOA, your parents
like rediscovered each other. I guess yeah, And then Lena
casually tossed Lida casually tosses off that, like, I don't know,
(22:46):
maybe your mom had a lot of miscarriages, Like, oh huh.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That's another thing that we just like did not talk
about when we were kids. Is like our parents' potential miscare.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Well, especially because it's like a lead into making out.
It's like, oh yeah, so I might not.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Leda seems like she's a bit of a nervous talker.
She seems like a little rambling, right, she doesn't seem
as confident as she did in the movie Theater.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
That's such a good point. You're right, I bet that
is what that's illustrated because it does it honestly, it
is very relatable, like these all like almost like everything
she says leading up to the makeout is like looking
for approval and like looking for him to say something
nice about her, and it kind of doesn't. He kind
(23:35):
of does because she talks too about and I'd be
curious to what other bloomheads think about this. She talks
about how like the stereotypes about only children being spoiled.
She's like, maybe I'm spoiled, and he goes, you don't
seem to be.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Joel.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
I guess anyway, I want to describe Leda's room because
it's honestly, how funny that we posted that thing about
New York kids rooms and then this skips across This
is kind of kind of kids met so says Leita
had an interesting room. It was huge, much bigger than mine,
with all kinds of posters on the wall, some seem
(24:16):
to be from plays her mother had been in. There
was also a big subway map of New York and
a photo of her in a long, fancy dress, and
Lida says, that was when I was in this school play.
I think I look sort of sexy there for me.
They gave me this special kind of bra, that kind
of I don't know whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Is this a push up bra?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I think it is, And I feel like I think
Norma Kleine nailed this because I feel like I remember
being less confident and being that age and being in
conversations of like what can I possibly say to like
convey the fact that I am sexy in this conversation,
(25:05):
Like I know I don't look like this, but just
trust me. I was one sexy and I am sexy,
and you should think to me this way, but only
if you want to know worries if not.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Like, yes, yes, do you think she put up that
picture right before their day knowing he'd come over?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Maybe she just staged it something I would do.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, that's a good point, Like oh, whoops, I put
on this thing. Sure, Oh no, this picture of myself
in my room.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, oh no.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And then she engages with another familiar thing, which is
the classic how to flirt with the person wearing glasses
move This is the oldest trick in the book.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
She asks him like, how can he see without his glasses? Which, again,
I feel like we've all been there, We've all done that.
That's like on a up there and flirting with like
when you steal a boy's hat and you're like, oh
my god, it's so big on my little head.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oh my god, I'm so small.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Tiny Josh. And it works because she gets close to
look at his glasses and all of a sudden they're
making out. So it totally worked. So it is a
special thing to be with somebody with glasses because if
(26:32):
you keep them on while you're like macin, there is
a funny moment sometimes where you pull away and they're like,
glasses are fogged. Yes, that's funny. Or something that comes
to mind is one time, well, I had a long
term boyfriend that had glasses, and there would be times
when we were like getting ready to hook up and
he had his glasses off and he'd put his glasses
(26:53):
on and I was thought like, ooh, he wants to see.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I remember years ago I dated a guy who famously
was blind but didn't want to wear glasses because he
didn't think they were cool, so he would just walk
around not being able to see. Like halfway through us dating,
he decided, Okay, fuck this, I need to start wearing
my glasses again. And I was so nervous because I
(27:22):
was like, he literally hasn't seen what I look like.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
No, didn't change it, and I.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Was like, oh my no, No, I mean oh we
did break up not too long after. No, I mean
he wasn't that blind, but like it was just details
and I was thinking like, oh my god, he's never
seen my pores. Oh no, So that was very nerve wracking.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
That same boyfriend also once touched my face when he
didn't have glasses on. He said, you would be so
pretty if I was blind. Oh, he didn't be bad.
Can I say that to people?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Oh gosh, she needs some media training.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I feel like all boyfriends need media. Yeah, media AnyWho?
So Alita and Joel are macin and Joel is like, well,
I hope I don't get a boner and spoiler, he
gets a bone. Yeah, but he says, he's like, girls
have an advantage because you can't tell when they're excited,
(28:36):
which I think is kind of funny. But he's like,
they also don't tell you how far they want to go,
and I wish girls would tell you that before you
even get started.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Oh can you describe just like their tongue kissing. It
just seemed really Can I just read this one part
because I have it very top of mind. Right about
in the middle, she opened her mouth a little bit,
and without even deciding or intending to, I put my
tongue in her mouth and touched her. She didn't seem
(29:09):
to mind. She rang her tongue. This is the part
she ran her tongue lightly across mine, back and forth.
That's a little too clinical and methodical for me.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Well, here's the thing is, I think that no kind
of sexual content contact holds up to scrutiny. I think
it is something like we shouldn't like examine too closely
because it is so like animal and like, yeah, it
that is what she's saying, is what happens. But it
(29:42):
sounds weird when she says it like that.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, it's like teaching AI how to make out, but you.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Know what it to a certain degree. Maybe this book
is where kids learned how to make out in the
same way that like Judy books taught you how to
like put a tampon it or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Definitely, like I devoured these books in preparation for my eventual.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I was like stealing my mom's like red book magazines,
and so I'll be like, mom, if I ever have
a husband and he loses interests, this is how to
do it.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Oh yeah, like skip it ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Kind of bear mackin. He popped a boner and she's like, oh,
we better put that away because my parents are gonna
come soon, and he's like, what a coincidence Samsi's but
she's asking him if he wants to go out again?
Does he have a girlfriend? She's doing all this admin
(30:40):
After he says he doesn't, she says she doesn't because
she kind of like knows all the boys she goes
to school with, and it's hard to feel romantic about
them because she has known them so long. And she
says something that I think is spot on, which she goes,
it's hard to find someone you like. But at the
same time you're attracted to it seems like it's usually
(31:02):
one or the other that happens sometimes.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I Yeah, that part was confusing to me because at
that age I didn't there wasn't a distinction, Like I
was boy crazy. I liked all the boys. I didn't
like divide them into those two categories. And if you
like someone, you like someone, and that's it.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
But yeah, I think sometimes it's like the people who
like you are really nice people, but it's like, well,
I don't feel attracted to you.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Oh I think you're nice, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
But I'm like not, I don't want to jump your bones. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
So maybe I though that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Relate to that feeling a little bit. And then we
get to Lassie fucking Bligeon. Oh my god. So Lassie
Bligeon is a girl that Joel met at camp. She's
his example when Leda asked him if he met someone
(32:06):
that he liked, but he's also attracted to. So Lassie
Blidgeon is a counselor in training. She works at the
camp people rightly so make fun of her for being
named after the Collie, and she works on typewriters. She
like writes for the Camp magazine Joel says he wrote
(32:29):
a short story for the Camp magazine that was quote,
kind of a weird story about a guy who went
crazy and thought the drink dispenser was god like, sir.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
Like.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
It makes me think of have you seen wet hot
American summer?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Huh?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Chris Maloney who thinks the the can of peas is
his war buddy. Anyway. Then there's like movie night and
they watch Fame excellent, shout out, I love Fame, mm hmm.
But they're showing the edited version of Fame where it
just replaces words with I don't think better words, no love,
(33:14):
because the quote is like when someone's supposed to say tits,
they say jugs stick And when this dancer says about
this guy, I dig his black ass, they changed ass
to But it's like that doesn't even mean the same thing. Yeah, Also,
(33:34):
jugs sounds cruder than tits. Yeah, but I do think
culturally we should bring jugs back because drugs is funny. Knockers,
Oh that's a good knockers is great.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
The knockers is good knockers.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
If anything, I feel like tits is my least favorite
word for that.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, it's almost too flippant.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah. So anyway they're watching, they're getting formed up, and
then they make out in the woods, but nothing else
can come up it because she lives in California. Hey,
so that's Joel's first crush really, And then Leita talks
about a guy she had a crush on and he
was an actor in one of the plays and he
(34:19):
was twenty one and he was already divorced.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
He must have been Mormon. Oh, I'm just watching so
much Secret Lives of Mormon. Why. It was like everything
comes back to being Mormon for me.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
So and everything does come back to being Mormon. Yeah,
And Lida has such like a teenager answer to this.
She's like, Oh, my dad wouldn't let me date him
because he was twenty one. Can you believe that?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
How good?
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yes, I can't believe that. And he was twenty one
divorced guy. Yeah. Joel's kind of trying to sess out
how much experience she's had, but she says she's a virgin,
and then in comes Daddy and that's the end of
chapter four. Doddy's here.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Let's have a little recap. Do you think Lida is
a virgin or is she lying?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
I do think she's but now I'm confused because, well,
you're right. In the context of this book, maybe she is,
because the whole premise, as set forth on the cover
is Jola's shining and experience, and Lida has a lot
to teach him exactly.
Speaker 5 (35:32):
I'm like, ooh, well, maybe they did like everything, but okay, okay,
maybe I mean, speaking of Mormonism, maybe they were doing
like some.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Loophole sex soaking.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, do I know about soaking? Yes, yes, I know
about soaking, or like I mean the classic don't lose
your virginity loophole, which is like your butt doesn't have virginity.
Oh my god, I can't believe I just committed that
to recording.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You know, you our future employers.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Oh my lord.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
You know what's the worst about AI is that it
automatically transcribes our episodes now, so like it used to
be that like if I said something weird, it was
buried deep in like hundreds of hours of audio. But
now it's like searchable.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
It doesn't have Yeah, well that is not I just
want to go on record. That's not what I believe. Yeah,
a trope, common cultural trope. But that's interesting. What do
you think, Releada.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I think she. I think you're right. I think she
may not have done the like traditional p in the
V as you say, but I think she's she's got
some chops.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah. You know what I was thinking in this chapter
is I was wondering if it was foreshadowing Joel being like, oh,
girls never tell you when they want sex. And I
have a feeling that Lida might be mature and direct
about what she wants and when she wants it.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Maybe yeah, yeah, I hope. So chapter five, so they're
(37:43):
in Lada's bedroom, they're making out, they're doing tongue stuff.
Leada's chunky father that comes in. He's chunky, and he
gives Joela ride home, and Leada is not in the car,
which is interesting because if I was sixteen and my
dad had insisted on giving a new guy or even
(38:04):
a friend a ride home, I would insist on going
in the car with them to like have some sort
of control over the level of embarrassment. But she's just like, Okay,
guys have fun. And I wanted to read this car
combo because it's very interesting. So how'd you like the play?
(38:27):
It was good, Leita says, you like the theater?
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Well, I guess I'm more interested in music.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
What do you play electric guitar?
Speaker 5 (38:39):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Why does everything have to be electric? These days? They're
trying to make us all deaf. I guess it.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Doesn't have to be loud. You can play it anyway
you like.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
Yeah, I like classical guitar myself. Ever listened to Segovia? Sure,
Oh that's what you're gonna do be a musician.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
My father thinks it's not such a reliable way to
make a living.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Father's always spoil the fun, don't they?
Speaker 6 (39:13):
Oh that practical jazz about making a living? It's like
Leda with her acting. Sure she's talented, so what so
we're nine million girls.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
So if she's lucky and gets a few breaks, she'll
get a few parts until she's thirty. After that, what,
lady Macbeth, I mean, look at my wife.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
She's a fine actress. I say that totally without prejudice.
I'd have married her if she couldn't act to save herself.
But she is good, veried?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
What have you?
Speaker 6 (39:44):
So this winter she has to slap out to Seattle
Watchington for four months just to play a.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Role in some half bag play. Why?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Because that's the only place that offered her a decent
part Washington.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
That's a long time to be away, lesson.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
We've been married thirty years. We don't go to pieces.
If we're apart four months, it's for her. What's there
due in Seattle, Washington?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
You ever been there?
Speaker 3 (40:18):
No? I guess. The closest I've been there is Los Angeles.
That's where my brother lives.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
What is he an actor or something?
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Oh, he's a dental surgeon. But a lot of people
whose teeth he pulls out are movie stars.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Actors are the worst.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
I mean if you need them for plays, obviously, but unreliable.
So you're gonna go to college next year? Like my Leita,
I told her.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Get an education, be well rounded.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
If by the time you're twenty two, that's all you
want to do, go to it.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
My father would like me to go to Yea. That's
where he went, and you, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (41:07):
I never graduated college, tried it in two years, never
liked studying, so I quit.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
I've read everything you've ever heard of. But I'm the
type that operates on their instincts.
Speaker 6 (41:22):
Jesus, It's always worked, So I figure, what could an
education have done for me?
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I'd like to go to Paris for college, you know French.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Not that it matters, you'd pick it up.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
I know it pretty well. I studied it four years
in school.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Oh, Paris is a great place, great girls.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I was there after the war. They all came running out.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
In the streets, little dark haired girls with big black
eyes hugging. I want to did this to yourself, little
dark haired girls with big black eyes running hugging us.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
That was great.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
The war was ship but that was great.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
What war was that?
Speaker 2 (42:19):
What war was that? I love it? You kids? The
Second World War? Ever heard of that one?
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Sure, I've heard of it. That's the one with the Nazis.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
The one with the Nazis. Ough, I love you kids,
I love blue with the Nazis. Okay. So Leita's dad
fought in World War Two.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
I know my I was like that meme of the
lady where all like the calculations are flashing before her eyes.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Yes, yes, okay, so I did the calculations. The war
ended in nineteen forty five, and if he's in his
mid fifties, in nineteen eighty three, so that was thirty
eight years ago, and he would have been a team.
So I yeah, he probably was an eighteen year old soldier. Okay,
(43:18):
maybe even seventeen. Maybe he lied about his age, but
he could have been there. But that's also nuts, like
my grandparents, you know, that's our grandparents' age, and our
grandparents are dead, well mine are, but I got one.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
But yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Wow. That just really brought home how how old this
book is? Wait a second, how many years ago? Was
nineteen eighty three? Okay, so this book is older to
us than World War Two was to this book.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Oh no, wow, indeed damn.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
So Joel thinks about dad's Leada's dad seems pretty cool.
He kind of enjoyed the conversation. It sounds like maybe
he should talk to Joel's dad and about letting him
go to Paris.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
And then we learn, like you said, Berger's dad is
a horn dog. Yeah, he's always commenting on women's asses,
saying that you can frame them. Joel's also kind of
spiraling about Lida and this older actor she mentioned.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I find this messaging about Leda's mom so confusing because
it's like, wait, she's doing fine. She's not like a
Broadway actor, but like she is a working actor.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, she's going to Washington.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, and even him, it's like he didn't go to
college and he's doing fine. So I'm I think maybe
Norman is on purpose trying to show that like adults
are kind of hypocritical about this. Though. I do think
his advice is probably similar to Jules's dad's advice, because
he's telling Lida like, look, you don't have to do
(45:07):
acting in college, but if you still love it when
you're done with college, then we can talk, yes, which
I think is genuinely solid good advice, and I like
that so, but it is weird that they keeping like ugh,
not like Lyda's mom, you know, the successful working actress right.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Who also has raised a child.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I mean, my mom pulls this shit all the time,
but it's mostly with like talking to her about like
me wanting a family but being like, eh, a couple
of years down the line and she's like, well, you know,
your cousin's parents were older when they had her, And
I'm like.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
And what, everybody is fine, Everyone's she's fine.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
She's a lawyer, like everything works out okay. And she
does this too with me when I talk about like
maybe wanting to date someone older and She'll be like, well,
you're grandfather was twelve years older than your grandmother, And
I'm like, and they were married for fifty years and
they were the loves of each other's life. Like what
(46:09):
do you try to say, Laura?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
What? Liter like? What?
Speaker 3 (46:14):
So people are weird sometimes, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Only pointing out the most successful examples is a cautionary tale.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Awesome, sign me up for both of those for real.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Joel's also kind of spiraling about this older actor Lida
has mentioned, you know, and he assumes that this guy's
probably super good looking, because of course all actors are
good looking, and he's probably not a virgin because he's
been married, and he's just he's really trying to pick
(46:47):
apart whether or not Lida is a virgine, because Burger
says girls do lie about this stuff, and I like, he.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Says, Burger claims girls can lie about that.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it's weird, soaking boys. So we're all, you know,
anyone with a yeah, speaking of Burger. The next morning,
Joel goes over to his house to get some girl
advice and to play some tennis with Hope. And I
know we're all thinking, stay away from Hope, do you
hear me. Uh, this is where we learn Burger's last name.
(47:23):
It's not Burger, it's wolf Sin. Burger wolf Sin. That
is a very good name.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
It is a good name. But I did actually a
tiny bit of research on Burger as a first name. Oh,
it's extremely uncommon. But what I found was it's German.
It's a like a German name. It's usually a German surname.
But according to antes street dot Com, it says this.
(47:49):
It says the name Burger has its origins in Germany,
where it derived from the Middle High German word burg
or berg, meaning mountain, as the name Burger refers to
someone who who originated from or dwelt near a mountain.
The significance of this name lies in its history widespread
uses through the past and present, and it's a name
that can be tracked like through medieval times. And the
(48:14):
Burger's name usually means they're like shepherds or miners or
people who live in mountains. That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Oh yeah, I actually really like that name.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Yeah, it's kind of cool now that they say it
like that. So Burger Wolfson, it is a good name.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
So Missus Wilson tells Joel that Burger's still sleeping because
he likes to sleep until around noon, and Joel's thinking
about how sexy Burger's mom is because she's young. She's
one of those young moms, and she's blonde and skinny
and long legs. And then he thinks, this is where
Hope must have gotten her looks from. She's a leaven.
(48:56):
Joel goes into Burger's disgusting room. There is a dirty
getting pig cage. There's roaches. Burger immediately makes Joel go
get his cigarette stash in the dirty laundry pile. Burger says,
so was it right? What about Blondie? Is she hot?
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Oh? Come on, it was just our first date, so
she's nice. I like her. What about we went back
to her place and made out a little bit, and
then her father came home.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Their fathers always come home, they're like watch dogs. I
wish I'd made a girl who was an orphan or
maybe whose parents were divorced and she was living with
her mother, who was a night nurse or something. That's good.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
It's really funny. She said she was a virgin. Oh
they always say that, So what you automatically think it's
not true?
Speaker 2 (49:57):
It could be true. Anything could be true.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
I think maybe it's true.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Well for your sake, I hope it's not. Kid Oh good,
because then you have to go through the whole stirm
and drang. Okay, we gotta talk about sterman drang. What
is that?
Speaker 5 (50:16):
No?
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I mean I can get from context clues, but like,
where does that come from?
Speaker 3 (50:22):
I don't know where it comes from?
Speaker 2 (50:24):
But it is not like Germany?
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Sure, but I know that it's like an expression and
such that in Harry Potter, the one of the schools
is called drm strang.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Oh uh, sterm and drang about mad passion and how
you'll die if she won't do it. If they've done
it with a couple of guys, it's more what a fuck?
And they either do it or they don't.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Brother. See, when he said that, I thought his point
was going to be, like, you better hope she has experience,
because you don't have any experience. You need someone to
see your like sex surfa ah. But that's nuts what
he meant. He meant some burger. I didn't tell her.
I was is that? Okay?
Speaker 2 (51:15):
What do you lie?
Speaker 3 (51:17):
No? I just didn't see it.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
You can get mileage either way. Some of them figure
that if you've never done it, it's because you're really
choosy and you're waiting for someone special quote unquote, not
that you've been beating the bushes and haven't found anyone.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
I guess I'd rather be truthful.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
So when's your next date?
Speaker 3 (51:37):
I don't know. That was just last night.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
I all, y'all, yeah, are we gonna play tennis?
Speaker 3 (51:47):
You said you were.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Burger's been smoking in bed the whole time. Forgot to
mention that part. Hope does not like this. She has
learned all of the PSA's and the dare and all
the things. So she likes to flush his cigarettes down
the toilet. And she says that I'm not going to
go to your funeral, and when you die, I'm gonna
flush your ashes down the toilet too, And it's a
(52:10):
whole thing hilarious. And he goes, give me a break, Hopey,
And so this is the first time we hear her
being called Hopey. And then suddenly like Joel's calling her
Hope and he's never called her Hope before. I'm like, Norma.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
Norma is just like, oh, you know, that'd be.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Fun, yeah, and didn't go. She didn't have a find
and replace to go to the other one, and I
don't dislike it.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Sometimes I think like slant nicknames like that are fun.
Like I have a friend named Jill and I call
her Jilly, and I think that's fun.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yeah, I like it. Yeah, So Joel and Hopey go
over to the tennis courts in Central Park and play
a little bit, and you know, Hope's not very good.
She hits the ball all over the place. And there's
like a whole bit about how when you play at
Central Park, you know, the ball can roll into like
(53:04):
any of the twenty other courts and then you have
to like yell for them to throw the ball back,
and it's so embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
And let me just say, from my brief time in
the pickleball trenches, I think people who play racket sports
are so fucking uppity. They really are, even like a
dipshit racket sport like pickleball, like people are They get
ornery about court rules in a way that I've never
seen people do before. And so this checked right out
(53:34):
to me.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Interesting. Yeah, the culture, I wonder what makes sense So.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
Like hall monitory, I know, I wonder if it's because
like tennis is kind of like a like an upper
class kind of sport a little bit, so people tend
to be more snooty about it, and then that kind
of gets grandfather down to like pickleball. The pickleball is
like the dumbest sport in the world, which, by the way,
(54:02):
they say, Burger is good at ping pong, I bet
he'd be really good at pickupol just say, oh yeah,
but yeah, this is this felt very true to life,
like they are uppity. Did you also catch the part
where they say, like, if you play against someone who
doesn't know the rules yet, sometimes you just can't get
it over the net. It's like, oh, I think that's
(54:22):
a little foreshadow.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Oh yeah, good cat. So yeah, Hope is just insisting
that Joel teaches her how to serve. He insists that
he's not very good and she should just learn from
a pro instead, and then she says that he has
an inferiority complex, and I think she's onto something, and
(54:49):
you know, I know, we know what an inferiority complex,
but I wanted to google it just to get like symptoms.
So but then this was very interesting and stood out
to me. Men are particularly susceptible to inferiority complexes. Often
as a result of so called toxic masculinity, the social
phenomenon where men feel that they have to suppress normal
(55:10):
emotional responses and become physically, mentally, and financially superior to
other men in order to become appropriately masculine. Men are
also likely to feel more inferior in romantic relationships, in
particular when comparing themselves to their paramour's past partners i e.
Twenty one year old and forced actors. So is this
(55:36):
book really about toxic masculinity?
Speaker 3 (55:38):
Whoa?
Speaker 2 (55:41):
And then here are some signs of an inferiority complex,
so we can all diagnose ourselves. Displaying signs of low
self esteem, a tendency to overanalyze compliments and criticisms check check,
persistently looking for validation and praise from others, pulling away
from family, friends, colleagues, especially in social situations, attempting to
(56:04):
make others feel insecure to make up feelings of inadequacy,
the refusal to participate in competitive events for fear of
being compared to others.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
Oh Man, that's a read on Joel for sure.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
Yeah. I think hope she's wise, very wise. Back to
the tennis, we have a real when in Rome situation
happening here. This time it's a man. He comes over
to Joel and Hope and tells them off because, like
you said, he's a rule lover and they're not supposed
to give lessons at these courts. If they want to
(56:42):
give lessons, they have to register beforehand and it's a
whole process and blah blah blah, and they're just like, yo,
we're not giving lessons. And Hope says, he's my brother,
but he'd like anything they say. He's like, well, rules
the rule and it's like, oh my god, so annoying.
(57:05):
They go back to the house and Hope tells Berger
that the lessons went well, and guess what. Joel's going
to be her coach and he's like, I never said that.
And then the last paragraph is my father says women
have more determination than men. That's when they set out
(57:26):
to get something, nothing gets in their way. Maybe that's true,
so we get what we want when we want it.
That's chapter five, parting thoughts.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
I want to give one final shout out to Lassie
Blidgeon because I am a girl who also has a
name that is commonly associated with dogs, and it is
a tough road to hoe, and so if any bloom Heads,
male or female, also feel my pain. And you have
a name that people often respond to, oh my god,
(58:01):
that's my dog's name. I feel for you.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Oh gosh. I never associated Molly with a dog's name.
I mean, I guess, yeah.
Speaker 3 (58:10):
But well, you're the only person in the world. Okay,
everybody wants to tell me about their like aged golden
retriever who's also named Molly, and I never know what
to say.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
What do you say?
Speaker 3 (58:24):
Like for a while, I used to be like, well,
I don't fetch.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
See that's good. That's good.
Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah. So I honestly that is the only downside to
having my name is that people are always telling me
it's a dog's name. So last ye, I feel your pain.
If your name is Max, I feel your pain. Oh fella, yes,
my friends, I was talking to my friend about that
the other day and she goes mm hmm, like Chloe
(58:51):
chloey doghoe. That's weird, but yeah, shout out to those
of us with dog names.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, you're a special breed. Hey, Okay, well, Bloomheads, thank
you so much for joining us, and stay tuned in
two weeks for more Beginner's Love. More Pada Norma investigations
(59:20):
and yeah, send us a letter bloom Saloon at gmail
dot com. Get in touch on our Instagram. Mollie's doing
some really fun stuff over there, and of course, as always,
our private and free Facebook group is open. Okay by
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm Jodie and I'm Mollie and you're listening to the
Blue Saloon.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's a Blue book clubs.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, everybody, sorry for skipping a week now, Like we're
really off schedule because we did a double week and
then we did a non week. I have had COVID.
I my first COVID. I just told Mollie. I think
it's because when I was bragging about never having COVID
(00:44):
before on the pod, I didn't knock on wood.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
So stay safe out there, kids, you gotta be.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, bring a little piece of wood with you wherever
you go, because it's real. Okay, I've lost my I
smell and taste completely and bloom heads. If you have
any advice on this, like if this has happened to you,
and if you found anything that helped you get your
(01:13):
taste and smell back, or like any foods that brought
you any kind of joy to eat in the process,
please let me know, because like, this is.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
The saddest, the saddest side effect. I'm so depressed about it.
I'm sorry, And it's really weird.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Because I never realized how much I rely on my
smell to know if I need a shower or not. Like,
not being able to smell if I stink is so trippy.
I mean, yes, I should be showering every day, but
you know what, sometimes sometimes I don't.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Especially if you're not It's hard.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah that, oh man. So I'm really trying to maintain
my hygiene. Farting and not smelling it is very weird.
I miss the smell of my dog's breath so much. God,
that's the little things.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh man.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
But this is a joy to be here. This is
the one bright spot in my day. Yeah, and thanks
for joining us, bloomheads. We're reading Norma Klein Beginner's Love
chapters five, four and five today.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Before we get into a do you want to do
our judy minuity?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Oh? Yes, you go first this time. I feel like
I always go first.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Okay, So this is the segment of a show where
we take one minute or less to talk about the
most judy bloom thing that happened to us this week.
I feel like I had a pretty judy bloom day yesterday.
My friend from San Francisco was in town. But she
actually we grew up in the same place in southern California.
(03:00):
Like adjacent cities in southern California, and I didn't know
her then, so she's staying with her parents, and so
I went back to that neighborhood to come hang out
with her, and we went to the beach, and it
was just really funny to be going back to like
places I used to know in high school as an adult,
I don't really have occasion to do that a lot,
and I don't even really have that many friends from
(03:21):
high school that I still talk to, So it was
funny that, like this was like a friend from a
whole other part of my life that we're tracing similar
high school stuff with. So that was really interesting, and
it is funny like things that like only well I
don't know only but like that we specifically had in
common going to school in like the same school district
like now, Tody, when you were in school, And was
(03:46):
there any kind of like official mandate to not wear
gang colors? No, Okay, maybe that's an LBC thing, because
we were both like, yeah, of course, remember that in
school where they said please don't wear crip colors? That
was we had that. So yeah, we had that in common.
(04:07):
And we took a walk and went to the beach
and it was fun and then later, because my dad
still lives in that part of town, I went to
go have dinner with my dad and we took a
walk in the neighborhood and that was fun too, felt
old timey. My dad had like the most dad conversation
I've ever heard in real life. We were walking past
(04:27):
a man who was watering his lawn and the man
had a hat on and my dad had a similar
hat on, and they just talked about hats for like
three minutes, back and forth, dad style.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It was so fun. Kind of hats were they wearing.
I need to picture those, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
So.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Of course they had both bought them at the same
hat shop, just in the neighborhood. And the fact that
the neighborhood has a hat shop, I think kind of
tells about the kind of neighborhood it is. Yeah, they
were both like straw dad hats, and my dad complimented
this guy's and this guy was like, Oh, it's a stetson,
and then my dad was like, oh, I love stetson
(05:05):
blah blah, And then they were talking about washing it
and wearing it and it's funny. My dad's hat was
more of like a Panama hat. That's kind of his
go to hat. And this guy had a wider brim. Yeah,
but that was really funny. And then the last Judy
Bloom thing that happened on that same walk is we
found a little boy who was selling lemonade in his
(05:27):
front yard and we thought, oh, how cute. But then
this little kid had like crazy branding, Like he had
his lemonade cooler had his logo on it, and the
cups had a logo on it, and there was a
branded like straw and he gave us our lemonades and
he was like, that's six dollars each, Like six dollars, Travis,
(05:50):
you are wild and out, that's wild.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Better have vodka in there, well, to.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
His to his credit, it was again in a branded
plastic cup.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yes, and you gotta pay for those stickers somehow.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yes, And it was flavored, so we put a pump
of watermelon in there and then put like sour candy
rings on the straw. So I'm gonna say it was
high quality. But never in my entire life have I
paid six American dollars for a yard lemonade.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
That is fudge. I mean, yes, that's what's the next
fudge book. We haven't read yet. The Double Fudge.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
I've never read that one, but I know that one
is money, money, money.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yes, there's something about money with it. And I think
there might be a lemonade stand, so that's so funny.
The candy rings, though, that's very swig from Yes, the
Mormon dirty soda culture.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yes, yes, And I have been to swig, so I
can tell you it is.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It is like, I'm so jealous you've been to Swig. Yeah,
go to swigs so bad.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I think Swig is not my culture because I don't
like sweet things. And even I will say even this,
like lemonade was a little too sweet for my blood.
So I did not super enjoy Swig when I was
But God bless anybody who does Mormon God bless. Yeah.
So that was my whole day of judy feelings yesterday.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
That is pretty perfect. I can't imagine a better judy day.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah. What about you?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, I haven't really done much because I've been sick.
But and I told you this when you did your
back call on Instagram. But oh yea. My mom had
to take me to urgent care when I first started
feeling sick because I was in Houston for work. I
caught COVID from a little girl on the plane. I
(07:49):
know it was her way.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Really she like coffin Vibian, Vibian, Oh that's such a
beautiful name.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
No, she was Mary, more like the weedest little girl.
And I usually never talk to people on planes. I'm
like headphones in, you know, do my crossword puzzle whatever.
But I had my dog Bo with me, and Bo
is very cute and he attracts people wherever he goes,
and so this little girl and her mom wanted to
sit next to us. So Vivian, could, you know, play
(08:18):
with Bo? And she was seven years old, very talkative,
and normally I'm like, oh, children, but she really won
me over and so we talked the whole time. She
like almost cried when we had to get off the
plane to say goodbye. She made her mom take down
my number, and she invited me to Christmas and she
(08:41):
kept saying we're best friends. Now, we're best friends, right. Yes,
she was so cute, yes, because I'm like, who else
would it have been? Or she was like talking in
my face for three and a half hours straight.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It's so funny. That's sad. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
And I even took pictures of her with bo because
she was so cute and it was like a fun moment.
So I have this picture of this like vaulted. Yeah,
patient zero, uh huh oh ah.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
But no.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
But then, so I was in Houston working for a
few days at my client's office, and like slowly each
day feeling worse and worse. But I was just like,
it's allergies, you know. And then on the third day,
I came home to my mom's because I was staying
at my mom's and like collapsed on the floor. Literally,
I'm like laying in a heap on the floor, and
(09:38):
she took me to urgent care and it was just like, oh.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Mommy, oh no, thank you. That is It reminds me
of I think, is it Sally J. Friedman when she's
so worried to like have her mom pick her up
from school because her mom's at work, and then her
mom come gets her and she's like, oh, honey, I'm sorry,
I know you were actually sick.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Wait, no, is.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
That not Sally J. That's some Oh you know what,
I'm sorry, I'm do you know what that is? That's
Ramona Quimby, age eight.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, that sounds very Ramona.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Okay, never mind. But what you do need to know
There was.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
A Sally j moment where she was sick and her
mom didn't believe her and she threw up. I think
it was after the like post war celebrations.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yes, exactly that. And then now you need to have
precious red wine come and take care of you will
yourself precious.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I love our Judy Minudi. It's such a fun highlight
of our little thing here that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And I get a joy every Friday when we do
it on Instagram. You guys are so creative. But I
also feel like I know more about everybody's like gi
track than I have thought it, or like everybody's like
internal mechanism, because everyone's always like I'm got a bladder
and fish. Oh okay, Hello? Oh what that sound? Is
(10:57):
it your tea boy? Hello? Hello?
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Hello?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
That was scary? Who was that? Wait?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
What happened?
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Did you hear that?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
What the fuck? Oh my god, Jody, I think that
ghost was on the call. I don't know what happened.
What happened happen? Oh my god? No, hello, gosh, no,
going on? There is a ghost. Something is spooky as happening.
(11:39):
So what just happened was when you were talking, I
heard what sounded like a kettle going off, like like
a kettle like screaming. And then I heard this voice
and it sounded like this. It sounded like, uh, oh hello.
So I don't know if it's my phone freaking out
(12:00):
and that was you, and it like it is like glitching,
so it lost your voice or whatever. Wait, but it
was so scary. And then the phone then the call
hung up.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Wait, wait, wait, I think I know it. No, it's
not a go. It would be so fun if it was.
But I think it was Tyler taking the car. And
then I think my phone connected to the car blew
tube because I can see that he just pulled out
(12:30):
of the drive.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Oh that's so funny. That's exactly what happened. Oh god,
that was scary.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
So Tyler turned on the car and he hears you're
talking about like, g I trove.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I just said, hi, Oh that's so funny. Well, oh god,
all right, well let's get up. Let's get up the
show on the road.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Let's do it. Okay, scary, We have a new segment.
(13:21):
This is called the Pata Norma. What are we calling it?
Para norma? Norma investigation Investigations. That's right, Thank you Molly
for coming up with that. We have a bluemhead who
shall remain anonymous until they say it's okay to reveal
their name. But for now, anonymous source Deep Throat, has
(13:46):
decided to share some Norma archives with us. Now. This
person has been in communication with Norma's family, had letters,
had artwork, also worts of documents, and they have been
very kind in sharing with us. Oh, so here's where
(14:10):
we're going to start. Hello, I have attached some documents
for you to review. I'd appreciate it if you would
not include my name if you decide to share anything.
When we communicated several years ago, I did not feel
comfortable sharing the attached letter. However, last summer, I was
in Minneapolis to visit a friend. Went to the University
(14:30):
of Minnesota Library Kerlin Flection Room. They received Normous papers
from her family after her death. The papers clearly addressed
for mental health struggles. This leads me to believe that
it would be okay to share her cause of death.
Normous husband wrote a speech about her life and death,
which was in the papers. I've attached it. I've also
(14:50):
attached a letter which I received from Aileen phi Olsen,
now a deceased, about her experiences writing Norma Kline's autobiography.
The letter a us as Norma's cause of death. And
then this person goes on to say that they will
be sharing more information, so don't worry. The power of
normal investigations will continue. But I'm going to read this letter.
(15:13):
This one is from the husband's speech. It sounds like, yes, yes,
this is from Erwin Flessner. When we think of Norma
at a time like this, the tragedy of her early death,
a life cut short, comes back to us. We would
like an explanation for her suffering. Medical science and psychology
(15:35):
have no real answer. We lapse into frustration, which only
adds to the pain of our grief. I want to
talk about something different, which is that, taking the fact
of her life as it was, there was something miraculous
in what she was able to do, not just in
her writing, but how she touched the lives of many people,
family friends, other writers, readers of books, and her students
(15:59):
at Washer and Yale. In the fifty years of her life,
there was a following of her talent for communicating thoughts
and feelings in person and on the page. So in
our sadness, we should also remember how special it was,
how we were taken by surprise by this outpouring of life,
a life savored in conversation, lives imagined and invented in
(16:21):
her writing. The words that I had engraved on her
stone have many associations for me. Most of all, I
think of standing in the hall, looking into the living
room where she is seated at her desk. Each day
something new happening there. She usually began in the morning
by typing a letter to a friend. Then the characters
(16:42):
in her book would step out into her mind's eye
and spring to life on the typed page. Reaching the
end of a manuscript, she sometimes wept at having to
part with her characters. As we remember Norma. Let us
think about the abundance of beauty in her life. Irwin
Fleisner And this was written January fifteenth, nineteen ninety four.
(17:02):
Oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Mean that kind of and the way that the source
couched it kind of makes me think that maybe she
died by suicide.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, that's when I'm thinking, And you know, it makes
sense why it was. It's been such a mystery to
the public.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I think we got to keep an eye on this
and like learn more about this, and I'm excited to
kind of pour through those sources.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yes, thank you so much, deep throat. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, let's call them. Let's call him Kleinstein.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Oh god, you're so good, Kleinstein.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Okay, thank you, Kleinstein.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Thank you so much, Kleinstein. Well let's get into roll call.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Okay. The first thing I must say, if this this
episode is brought to us anything, let it be brought
to us by the name Lassie fucking Bligeon. Oh my god.
H Never in my entire reading life have I read
(18:17):
a name that shocked me more than Lassie Bligeon. What
kind of hunger games? Lass name is? Lassie Bligeon?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I was reading it before bed last night and I
almost texted you, but I'm like, baby, cannot text someone
at eleven thirty at night, Lassie Bligeon in all caps.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
No, you can. This is your permission forevermore that, yes
you should.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Oh my god. Well to introduce her Lassie blige is,
it's a girl Joel makes out with at camp who
is a good writer. But again, her name, Lassie Bligeon.
We also have Joel, who's our narrator, who's seventeen. Burger,
(19:11):
who is Joel's best friend and who again we find
out this episode Burger is his first name. Yes, Burger
is his first human name. What is happening this week?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Man.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
We have Burger's dad, who is a horn dog and
is rich. We have Hope, Burger's eleven year old sister
who Joel can't stop googling. We have Lida, also seventeen.
She's blonde, she's cool, she's feisty. We have Leda's dad,
(19:46):
who owns a theater AND's, as they say in this chapter,
like old. I can't I didn't do any.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Math, but uh they Oh I did the math. Oh,
we'll get there, okay.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
And then we have Lassie Blidgeon and then unnamed twenty
one year old actor who made out with Lida. I
think those are all the new characters we have. Chapter four.
This is right after we've seen Lida's mom in the
production of Salome, and it's her and Joel go back
(20:25):
to Lyda's apartment, which is near the theater, and she
says it's okay to come over because her parents usually
go out after the play, but she says, if you
come over when my dad comes home, he's gonna want
to drive you home because he doesn't think it's safe
to wander around New York at night. And she says
that kind of like, oh, parents, but it's also like
(20:49):
nineteen eighties New York, like I bet it wasn't safe
to be wandering around at night, and so she kind
of explains that, like, oh, sorry, my parents are stodgy.
They're old. She says, Danny's parents are just around forty,
but mom wanted to really give it her all to
(21:10):
her career, so they didn't even have me till she
was thirty eight and he was forty, and like, I'm
their only child, so they tend to be mildly obsessive
about some things.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
When I was that age, I was not thinking about
how old people's parents are, Like, oh, once you're going
over the age of thirty five, you're all the same. Yeah.
I wasn't like sitting around gossiping about parents' ages, right,
It wasn't interesting to us. And so it's funny that
these kids like have a whole big combo about it.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I know, I'm trying to think now that you mentioned
I feel like I only knew of one friend who
I'm like, Oh, her parents seem way older, and I
actually don't know if they were or not, but she
knew It's funny. It was probably like my most Leada
like friend. Her parents lived right by in my high
school and they both did theater too, So interesting, uh
(22:01):
but good for I feel like this chapter keeps having
mixed messages re Leita's mom and her choice to be
an actor, and I don't know how to feel about
it because I feel like those are similar mixed messages
that I personally feel like I'm always getting. So we'll
get We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
(22:22):
But Joel also says his parents are old, and he
says that he and his brother are fifteen years apart,
which is kind of interesting. I do feel like certain
families are like that, where it's like, WHOA, your parents
like rediscovered each other. I guess yeah, And then Lena
casually tossed Lida casually tosses off that, like, I don't know,
(22:46):
maybe your mom had a lot of miscarriages, Like, oh huh.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That's another thing that we just like did not talk
about when we were kids. Is like our parents' potential miscare.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Well, especially because it's like a lead into making out.
It's like, oh yeah, so I might not.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Leda seems like she's a bit of a nervous talker.
She seems like a little rambling, right, she doesn't seem
as confident as she did in the movie Theater.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
That's such a good point. You're right, I bet that
is what that's illustrated because it does it honestly, it
is very relatable, like these all like almost like everything
she says leading up to the makeout is like looking
for approval and like looking for him to say something
nice about her, and it kind of doesn't. He kind
(23:35):
of does because she talks too about and I'd be
curious to what other bloomheads think about this. She talks
about how like the stereotypes about only children being spoiled.
She's like, maybe I'm spoiled, and he goes, you don't
seem to be.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Joel.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
I guess anyway, I want to describe Leda's room because
it's honestly, how funny that we posted that thing about
New York kids rooms and then this skips across This
is kind of kind of kids met so says Leita
had an interesting room. It was huge, much bigger than mine,
with all kinds of posters on the wall, some seem
(24:16):
to be from plays her mother had been in. There
was also a big subway map of New York and
a photo of her in a long, fancy dress, and
Lida says, that was when I was in this school play.
I think I look sort of sexy there for me.
They gave me this special kind of bra, that kind
of I don't know whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Is this a push up bra?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I think it is, And I feel like I think
Norma Kleine nailed this because I feel like I remember
being less confident and being that age and being in
conversations of like what can I possibly say to like
convey the fact that I am sexy in this conversation,
(25:05):
Like I know I don't look like this, but just
trust me. I was one sexy and I am sexy,
and you should think to me this way, but only
if you want to know worries if not.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Like, yes, yes, do you think she put up that
picture right before their day knowing he'd come over?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Maybe she just staged it something I would do.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, that's a good point, Like oh, whoops, I put
on this thing. Sure, Oh no, this picture of myself
in my room.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, oh no.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And then she engages with another familiar thing, which is
the classic how to flirt with the person wearing glasses
move This is the oldest trick in the book.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
She asks him like, how can he see without his glasses? Which, again,
I feel like we've all been there, We've all done that.
That's like on a up there and flirting with like
when you steal a boy's hat and you're like, oh
my god, it's so big on my little head.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oh my god, I'm so small.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Tiny Josh. And it works because she gets close to
look at his glasses and all of a sudden they're
making out. So it totally worked. So it is a
special thing to be with somebody with glasses because if
(26:32):
you keep them on while you're like macin, there is
a funny moment sometimes where you pull away and they're like,
glasses are fogged. Yes, that's funny. Or something that comes
to mind is one time, well, I had a long
term boyfriend that had glasses, and there would be times
when we were like getting ready to hook up and
he had his glasses off and he'd put his glasses
(26:53):
on and I was thought like, ooh, he wants to see.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I remember years ago I dated a guy who famously
was blind but didn't want to wear glasses because he
didn't think they were cool, so he would just walk
around not being able to see. Like halfway through us dating,
he decided, Okay, fuck this, I need to start wearing
my glasses again. And I was so nervous because I
(27:22):
was like, he literally hasn't seen what I look like.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
No, didn't change it, and I.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Was like, oh my no, No, I mean oh we
did break up not too long after. No, I mean
he wasn't that blind, but like it was just details
and I was thinking like, oh my god, he's never
seen my pores. Oh no, So that was very nerve wracking.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
That same boyfriend also once touched my face when he
didn't have glasses on. He said, you would be so
pretty if I was blind. Oh, he didn't be bad.
Can I say that to people?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Oh gosh, she needs some media training.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I feel like all boyfriends need media. Yeah, media AnyWho?
So Alita and Joel are macin and Joel is like, well,
I hope I don't get a boner and spoiler, he
gets a bone. Yeah, but he says, he's like, girls
have an advantage because you can't tell when they're excited,
(28:36):
which I think is kind of funny. But he's like,
they also don't tell you how far they want to go,
and I wish girls would tell you that before you
even get started.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Oh can you describe just like their tongue kissing. It
just seemed really Can I just read this one part
because I have it very top of mind. Right about
in the middle, she opened her mouth a little bit,
and without even deciding or intending to, I put my
tongue in her mouth and touched her. She didn't seem
(29:09):
to mind. She rang her tongue. This is the part
she ran her tongue lightly across mine, back and forth.
That's a little too clinical and methodical for me.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Well, here's the thing is, I think that no kind
of sexual content contact holds up to scrutiny. I think
it is something like we shouldn't like examine too closely
because it is so like animal and like, yeah, it
that is what she's saying, is what happens. But it
(29:42):
sounds weird when she says it like that.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, it's like teaching AI how to make out, but you.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Know what it to a certain degree. Maybe this book
is where kids learned how to make out in the
same way that like Judy books taught you how to
like put a tampon it or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Definitely, like I devoured these books in preparation for my eventual.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I was like stealing my mom's like red book magazines,
and so I'll be like, mom, if I ever have
a husband and he loses interests, this is how to
do it.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Oh yeah, like skip it ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Kind of bear mackin. He popped a boner and she's like, oh,
we better put that away because my parents are gonna
come soon, and he's like, what a coincidence Samsi's but
she's asking him if he wants to go out again?
Does he have a girlfriend? She's doing all this admin
(30:40):
After he says he doesn't, she says she doesn't because
she kind of like knows all the boys she goes
to school with, and it's hard to feel romantic about
them because she has known them so long. And she
says something that I think is spot on, which she goes,
it's hard to find someone you like. But at the
same time you're attracted to it seems like it's usually
(31:02):
one or the other that happens sometimes.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I Yeah, that part was confusing to me because at
that age I didn't there wasn't a distinction, Like I
was boy crazy. I liked all the boys. I didn't
like divide them into those two categories. And if you
like someone, you like someone, and that's it.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
But yeah, I think sometimes it's like the people who
like you are really nice people, but it's like, well,
I don't feel attracted to you.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Oh I think you're nice, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
But I'm like not, I don't want to jump your bones. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
So maybe I though that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Relate to that feeling a little bit. And then we
get to Lassie fucking Bligeon. Oh my god. So Lassie
Bligeon is a girl that Joel met at camp. She's
his example when Leda asked him if he met someone
(32:06):
that he liked, but he's also attracted to. So Lassie
Blidgeon is a counselor in training. She works at the
camp people rightly so make fun of her for being
named after the Collie, and she works on typewriters. She
like writes for the Camp magazine Joel says he wrote
(32:29):
a short story for the Camp magazine that was quote,
kind of a weird story about a guy who went
crazy and thought the drink dispenser was god like, sir.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
Like.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
It makes me think of have you seen wet hot
American summer?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Huh?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Chris Maloney who thinks the the can of peas is
his war buddy. Anyway. Then there's like movie night and
they watch Fame excellent, shout out, I love Fame, mm hmm.
But they're showing the edited version of Fame where it
just replaces words with I don't think better words, no love,
(33:14):
because the quote is like when someone's supposed to say tits,
they say jugs stick And when this dancer says about
this guy, I dig his black ass, they changed ass
to But it's like that doesn't even mean the same thing. Yeah, Also,
(33:34):
jugs sounds cruder than tits. Yeah, but I do think
culturally we should bring jugs back because drugs is funny. Knockers,
Oh that's a good knockers is great.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
The knockers is good knockers.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
If anything, I feel like tits is my least favorite
word for that.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, it's almost too flippant.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah. So anyway they're watching, they're getting formed up, and
then they make out in the woods, but nothing else
can come up it because she lives in California. Hey,
so that's Joel's first crush really, And then Leita talks
about a guy she had a crush on and he
was an actor in one of the plays and he
(34:19):
was twenty one and he was already divorced.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
He must have been Mormon. Oh, I'm just watching so
much Secret Lives of Mormon. Why. It was like everything
comes back to being Mormon for me.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
So and everything does come back to being Mormon. Yeah,
And Lida has such like a teenager answer to this.
She's like, Oh, my dad wouldn't let me date him
because he was twenty one. Can you believe that?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
How good?
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yes, I can't believe that. And he was twenty one
divorced guy. Yeah. Joel's kind of trying to sess out
how much experience she's had, but she says she's a virgin,
and then in comes Daddy and that's the end of
chapter four. Doddy's here.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Let's have a little recap. Do you think Lida is
a virgin or is she lying?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
I do think she's but now I'm confused because, well,
you're right. In the context of this book, maybe she is,
because the whole premise, as set forth on the cover
is Jola's shining and experience, and Lida has a lot
to teach him exactly.
Speaker 5 (35:32):
I'm like, ooh, well, maybe they did like everything, but okay, okay,
maybe I mean, speaking of Mormonism, maybe they were doing
like some.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Loophole sex soaking.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, do I know about soaking? Yes, yes, I know
about soaking, or like I mean the classic don't lose
your virginity loophole, which is like your butt doesn't have virginity.
Oh my god, I can't believe I just committed that
to recording.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You know, you our future employers.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Oh my lord.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
You know what's the worst about AI is that it
automatically transcribes our episodes now, so like it used to
be that like if I said something weird, it was
buried deep in like hundreds of hours of audio. But
now it's like searchable.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
It doesn't have Yeah, well that is not I just
want to go on record. That's not what I believe. Yeah,
a trope, common cultural trope. But that's interesting. What do
you think, Releada.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I think she. I think you're right. I think she
may not have done the like traditional p in the
V as you say, but I think she's she's got
some chops.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah. You know what I was thinking in this chapter
is I was wondering if it was foreshadowing Joel being like, oh,
girls never tell you when they want sex. And I
have a feeling that Lida might be mature and direct
about what she wants and when she wants it.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Maybe yeah, yeah, I hope. So chapter five, so they're
(37:43):
in Lada's bedroom, they're making out, they're doing tongue stuff.
Leada's chunky father that comes in. He's chunky, and he
gives Joela ride home, and Leada is not in the car,
which is interesting because if I was sixteen and my
dad had insisted on giving a new guy or even
(38:04):
a friend a ride home, I would insist on going
in the car with them to like have some sort
of control over the level of embarrassment. But she's just like, Okay,
guys have fun. And I wanted to read this car
combo because it's very interesting. So how'd you like the play?
(38:27):
It was good, Leita says, you like the theater?
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Well, I guess I'm more interested in music.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
What do you play electric guitar?
Speaker 5 (38:39):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Why does everything have to be electric? These days? They're
trying to make us all deaf. I guess it.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Doesn't have to be loud. You can play it anyway
you like.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
Yeah, I like classical guitar myself. Ever listened to Segovia? Sure,
Oh that's what you're gonna do be a musician.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
My father thinks it's not such a reliable way to
make a living.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Father's always spoil the fun, don't they?
Speaker 6 (39:13):
Oh that practical jazz about making a living? It's like
Leda with her acting. Sure she's talented, so what so
we're nine million girls.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
So if she's lucky and gets a few breaks, she'll
get a few parts until she's thirty. After that, what,
lady Macbeth, I mean, look at my wife.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
She's a fine actress. I say that totally without prejudice.
I'd have married her if she couldn't act to save herself.
But she is good, veried?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
What have you?
Speaker 6 (39:44):
So this winter she has to slap out to Seattle
Watchington for four months just to play a.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Role in some half bag play. Why?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Because that's the only place that offered her a decent
part Washington.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
That's a long time to be away, lesson.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
We've been married thirty years. We don't go to pieces.
If we're apart four months, it's for her. What's there
due in Seattle, Washington?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
You ever been there?
Speaker 3 (40:18):
No? I guess. The closest I've been there is Los Angeles.
That's where my brother lives.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
What is he an actor or something?
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Oh, he's a dental surgeon. But a lot of people
whose teeth he pulls out are movie stars.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Actors are the worst.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
I mean if you need them for plays, obviously, but unreliable.
So you're gonna go to college next year? Like my Leita,
I told her.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Get an education, be well rounded.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
If by the time you're twenty two, that's all you
want to do, go to it.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
My father would like me to go to Yea. That's
where he went, and you, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (41:07):
I never graduated college, tried it in two years, never
liked studying, so I quit.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
I've read everything you've ever heard of. But I'm the
type that operates on their instincts.
Speaker 6 (41:22):
Jesus, It's always worked, So I figure, what could an
education have done for me?
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I'd like to go to Paris for college, you know French.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Not that it matters, you'd pick it up.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
I know it pretty well. I studied it four years
in school.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Oh, Paris is a great place, great girls.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I was there after the war. They all came running out.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
In the streets, little dark haired girls with big black
eyes hugging. I want to did this to yourself, little
dark haired girls with big black eyes running hugging us.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
That was great.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
The war was ship but that was great.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
What war was that?
Speaker 2 (42:19):
What war was that? I love it? You kids? The
Second World War? Ever heard of that one?
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Sure, I've heard of it. That's the one with the Nazis.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
The one with the Nazis. Ough, I love you kids,
I love blue with the Nazis. Okay. So Leita's dad
fought in World War Two.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
I know my I was like that meme of the
lady where all like the calculations are flashing before her eyes.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Yes, yes, okay, so I did the calculations. The war
ended in nineteen forty five, and if he's in his
mid fifties, in nineteen eighty three, so that was thirty
eight years ago, and he would have been a team.
So I yeah, he probably was an eighteen year old soldier. Okay,
(43:18):
maybe even seventeen. Maybe he lied about his age, but
he could have been there. But that's also nuts, like
my grandparents, you know, that's our grandparents' age, and our
grandparents are dead, well mine are, but I got one.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
But yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Wow. That just really brought home how how old this
book is? Wait a second, how many years ago? Was
nineteen eighty three? Okay, so this book is older to
us than World War Two was to this book.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Oh no, wow, indeed damn.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
So Joel thinks about dad's Leada's dad seems pretty cool.
He kind of enjoyed the conversation. It sounds like maybe
he should talk to Joel's dad and about letting him
go to Paris.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
And then we learn, like you said, Berger's dad is
a horn dog. Yeah, he's always commenting on women's asses,
saying that you can frame them. Joel's also kind of
spiraling about Lida and this older actor she mentioned.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I find this messaging about Leda's mom so confusing because
it's like, wait, she's doing fine. She's not like a
Broadway actor, but like she is a working actor.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, she's going to Washington.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, and even him, it's like he didn't go to
college and he's doing fine. So I'm I think maybe
Norman is on purpose trying to show that like adults
are kind of hypocritical about this. Though. I do think
his advice is probably similar to Jules's dad's advice, because
he's telling Lida like, look, you don't have to do
(45:07):
acting in college, but if you still love it when
you're done with college, then we can talk, yes, which
I think is genuinely solid good advice, and I like
that so, but it is weird that they keeping like ugh,
not like Lyda's mom, you know, the successful working actress right.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Who also has raised a child.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I mean, my mom pulls this shit all the time,
but it's mostly with like talking to her about like
me wanting a family but being like, eh, a couple
of years down the line and she's like, well, you know,
your cousin's parents were older when they had her, And
I'm like.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
And what, everybody is fine, Everyone's she's fine.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
She's a lawyer, like everything works out okay. And she
does this too with me when I talk about like
maybe wanting to date someone older and She'll be like, well,
you're grandfather was twelve years older than your grandmother, And
I'm like, and they were married for fifty years and
they were the loves of each other's life. Like what
(46:09):
do you try to say, Laura?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
What? Liter like? What?
Speaker 3 (46:14):
So people are weird sometimes, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Only pointing out the most successful examples is a cautionary tale.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Awesome, sign me up for both of those for real.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Joel's also kind of spiraling about this older actor Lida
has mentioned, you know, and he assumes that this guy's
probably super good looking, because of course all actors are
good looking, and he's probably not a virgin because he's
been married, and he's just he's really trying to pick
(46:47):
apart whether or not Lida is a virgine, because Burger
says girls do lie about this stuff, and I like, he.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Says, Burger claims girls can lie about that.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it's weird, soaking boys. So we're all, you know,
anyone with a yeah, speaking of Burger. The next morning,
Joel goes over to his house to get some girl
advice and to play some tennis with Hope. And I
know we're all thinking, stay away from Hope, do you
hear me. Uh, this is where we learn Burger's last name.
(47:23):
It's not Burger, it's wolf Sin. Burger wolf Sin. That
is a very good name.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
It is a good name. But I did actually a
tiny bit of research on Burger as a first name. Oh,
it's extremely uncommon. But what I found was it's German.
It's a like a German name. It's usually a German surname.
But according to antes street dot Com, it says this.
(47:49):
It says the name Burger has its origins in Germany,
where it derived from the Middle High German word burg
or berg, meaning mountain, as the name Burger refers to
someone who who originated from or dwelt near a mountain.
The significance of this name lies in its history widespread
uses through the past and present, and it's a name
that can be tracked like through medieval times. And the
(48:14):
Burger's name usually means they're like shepherds or miners or
people who live in mountains. That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Oh yeah, I actually really like that name.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Yeah, it's kind of cool now that they say it
like that. So Burger Wolfson, it is a good name.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
So Missus Wilson tells Joel that Burger's still sleeping because
he likes to sleep until around noon, and Joel's thinking
about how sexy Burger's mom is because she's young. She's
one of those young moms, and she's blonde and skinny
and long legs. And then he thinks, this is where
Hope must have gotten her looks from. She's a leaven.
(48:56):
Joel goes into Burger's disgusting room. There is a dirty
getting pig cage. There's roaches. Burger immediately makes Joel go
get his cigarette stash in the dirty laundry pile. Burger says,
so was it right? What about Blondie? Is she hot?
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Oh? Come on, it was just our first date, so
she's nice. I like her. What about we went back
to her place and made out a little bit, and
then her father came home.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Their fathers always come home, they're like watch dogs. I
wish I'd made a girl who was an orphan or
maybe whose parents were divorced and she was living with
her mother, who was a night nurse or something. That's good.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
It's really funny. She said she was a virgin. Oh
they always say that, So what you automatically think it's
not true?
Speaker 2 (49:57):
It could be true. Anything could be true.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
I think maybe it's true.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Well for your sake, I hope it's not. Kid Oh good,
because then you have to go through the whole stirm
and drang. Okay, we gotta talk about sterman drang. What
is that?
Speaker 5 (50:16):
No?
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I mean I can get from context clues, but like,
where does that come from?
Speaker 3 (50:22):
I don't know where it comes from?
Speaker 2 (50:24):
But it is not like Germany?
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Sure, but I know that it's like an expression and
such that in Harry Potter, the one of the schools
is called drm strang.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Oh uh, sterm and drang about mad passion and how
you'll die if she won't do it. If they've done
it with a couple of guys, it's more what a fuck?
And they either do it or they don't.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Brother. See, when he said that, I thought his point
was going to be, like, you better hope she has experience,
because you don't have any experience. You need someone to
see your like sex surfa ah. But that's nuts what
he meant. He meant some burger. I didn't tell her.
I was is that? Okay?
Speaker 2 (51:15):
What do you lie?
Speaker 3 (51:17):
No? I just didn't see it.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
You can get mileage either way. Some of them figure
that if you've never done it, it's because you're really
choosy and you're waiting for someone special quote unquote, not
that you've been beating the bushes and haven't found anyone.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
I guess I'd rather be truthful.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
So when's your next date?
Speaker 3 (51:37):
I don't know. That was just last night.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
I all, y'all, yeah, are we gonna play tennis?
Speaker 3 (51:47):
You said you were.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Burger's been smoking in bed the whole time. Forgot to
mention that part. Hope does not like this. She has
learned all of the PSA's and the dare and all
the things. So she likes to flush his cigarettes down
the toilet. And she says that I'm not going to
go to your funeral, and when you die, I'm gonna
flush your ashes down the toilet too, And it's a
(52:10):
whole thing hilarious. And he goes, give me a break, Hopey,
And so this is the first time we hear her
being called Hopey. And then suddenly like Joel's calling her
Hope and he's never called her Hope before. I'm like, Norma.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
Norma is just like, oh, you know, that'd be.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Fun, yeah, and didn't go. She didn't have a find
and replace to go to the other one, and I
don't dislike it.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Sometimes I think like slant nicknames like that are fun.
Like I have a friend named Jill and I call
her Jilly, and I think that's fun.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yeah, I like it. Yeah, So Joel and Hopey go
over to the tennis courts in Central Park and play
a little bit, and you know, Hope's not very good.
She hits the ball all over the place. And there's
like a whole bit about how when you play at
Central Park, you know, the ball can roll into like
(53:04):
any of the twenty other courts and then you have
to like yell for them to throw the ball back,
and it's so embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
And let me just say, from my brief time in
the pickleball trenches, I think people who play racket sports
are so fucking uppity. They really are, even like a
dipshit racket sport like pickleball, like people are They get
ornery about court rules in a way that I've never
seen people do before. And so this checked right out
(53:34):
to me.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Interesting. Yeah, the culture, I wonder what makes sense So.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
Like hall monitory, I know, I wonder if it's because
like tennis is kind of like a like an upper
class kind of sport a little bit, so people tend
to be more snooty about it, and then that kind
of gets grandfather down to like pickleball. The pickleball is
like the dumbest sport in the world, which, by the way,
(54:02):
they say, Burger is good at ping pong, I bet
he'd be really good at pickupol just say, oh yeah,
but yeah, this is this felt very true to life,
like they are uppity. Did you also catch the part
where they say, like, if you play against someone who
doesn't know the rules yet, sometimes you just can't get
it over the net. It's like, oh, I think that's
(54:22):
a little foreshadow.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Oh yeah, good cat. So yeah, Hope is just insisting
that Joel teaches her how to serve. He insists that
he's not very good and she should just learn from
a pro instead, and then she says that he has
an inferiority complex, and I think she's onto something, and
(54:49):
you know, I know, we know what an inferiority complex,
but I wanted to google it just to get like symptoms.
So but then this was very interesting and stood out
to me. Men are particularly susceptible to inferiority complexes. Often
as a result of so called toxic masculinity, the social
phenomenon where men feel that they have to suppress normal
(55:10):
emotional responses and become physically, mentally, and financially superior to
other men in order to become appropriately masculine. Men are
also likely to feel more inferior in romantic relationships, in
particular when comparing themselves to their paramour's past partners i e.
Twenty one year old and forced actors. So is this
(55:36):
book really about toxic masculinity?
Speaker 3 (55:38):
Whoa?
Speaker 2 (55:41):
And then here are some signs of an inferiority complex,
so we can all diagnose ourselves. Displaying signs of low
self esteem, a tendency to overanalyze compliments and criticisms check check,
persistently looking for validation and praise from others, pulling away
from family, friends, colleagues, especially in social situations, attempting to
(56:04):
make others feel insecure to make up feelings of inadequacy,
the refusal to participate in competitive events for fear of
being compared to others.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
Oh Man, that's a read on Joel for sure.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
Yeah. I think hope she's wise, very wise. Back to
the tennis, we have a real when in Rome situation
happening here. This time it's a man. He comes over
to Joel and Hope and tells them off because, like
you said, he's a rule lover and they're not supposed
to give lessons at these courts. If they want to
(56:42):
give lessons, they have to register beforehand and it's a
whole process and blah blah blah, and they're just like, yo,
we're not giving lessons. And Hope says, he's my brother,
but he'd like anything they say. He's like, well, rules
the rule and it's like, oh my god, so annoying.
(57:05):
They go back to the house and Hope tells Berger
that the lessons went well, and guess what. Joel's going
to be her coach and he's like, I never said that.
And then the last paragraph is my father says women
have more determination than men. That's when they set out
(57:26):
to get something, nothing gets in their way. Maybe that's true,
so we get what we want when we want it.
That's chapter five, parting thoughts.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
I want to give one final shout out to Lassie
Blidgeon because I am a girl who also has a
name that is commonly associated with dogs, and it is
a tough road to hoe, and so if any bloom Heads,
male or female, also feel my pain. And you have
a name that people often respond to, oh my god,
(58:01):
that's my dog's name. I feel for you.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Oh gosh. I never associated Molly with a dog's name.
I mean, I guess, yeah.
Speaker 3 (58:10):
But well, you're the only person in the world. Okay,
everybody wants to tell me about their like aged golden
retriever who's also named Molly, and I never know what
to say.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
What do you say?
Speaker 3 (58:24):
Like for a while, I used to be like, well,
I don't fetch.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
See that's good. That's good.
Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah. So I honestly that is the only downside to
having my name is that people are always telling me
it's a dog's name. So last ye, I feel your pain.
If your name is Max, I feel your pain. Oh fella, yes,
my friends, I was talking to my friend about that
the other day and she goes mm hmm, like Chloe
(58:51):
chloey doghoe. That's weird, but yeah, shout out to those
of us with dog names.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, you're a special breed. Hey, Okay, well, Bloomheads, thank
you so much for joining us, and stay tuned in
two weeks for more Beginner's Love. More Pada Norma investigations
(59:20):
and yeah, send us a letter bloom Saloon at gmail
dot com. Get in touch on our Instagram. Mollie's doing
some really fun stuff over there, and of course, as always,
our private and free Facebook group is open. Okay by
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