February 19, 2024 • 30 mins
Series: Artificial Intelligence, Leadership and the Future of Further Education
With:
Episode Overview:
In this episode, Richard Foster-Fletcher and Kurt Hintz engage in a comprehensive dialogue with Conrad Taylor and Dr. Adam Dwight from City of Wolverhampton College. The discussion illuminates the college's strategic approach to digital transformation, highlighting the innovative integration of AI and technology in teaching and learning processes. The conversation delves into the pivotal roles that Conrad and Adam play in spearheading digital initiatives, shedding light on the transformative impact of technology on student engagement and educational outcomes.
Key Topics of Discussion:
Recommendations from the Episode:
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-boundless-podcast--4077400/support.
With:
- Richard Foster-Fletcher, Executive Chair, MKAI.org
- Kurt Hintz, Executive Principal, Capital City College Group
- Conrad Taylor, Business Learning & Technologies Manager, The City of Wolverhampton College
- Dr. Adam Dwight, Lecturer in Teacher Education and Learning Innovator, The City of Wolverhampton College
Episode Overview:
In this episode, Richard Foster-Fletcher and Kurt Hintz engage in a comprehensive dialogue with Conrad Taylor and Dr. Adam Dwight from City of Wolverhampton College. The discussion illuminates the college's strategic approach to digital transformation, highlighting the innovative integration of AI and technology in teaching and learning processes. The conversation delves into the pivotal roles that Conrad and Adam play in spearheading digital initiatives, shedding light on the transformative impact of technology on student engagement and educational outcomes.
Key Topics of Discussion:
- The pathway to digital transformation within the education sector, emphasising the initiatives spearheaded by the City of Wolverhampton College.
- The dynamic role of technology in reshaping educational experiences, with a focus on personalised learning and digital skill development.
- Insights into the leadership strategies that drive successful technology integration in further education settings.
Recommendations from the Episode:
- Adopting a Forward-Looking Approach: Emphasising the importance of visionary leadership in navigating the complexities of digital transformation in education.
- Fostering Collaborative Innovation: Highlighting the significance of collaboration among educators, technologists, and students to maximise the potential of digital tools in enhancing learning.
- Empowering Through Digital Literacy: Stressing the necessity of equipping both students and educators with digital competencies to thrive in a technologically advanced educational landscape.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-boundless-podcast--4077400/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We've skipped a week, but we'revery much back now recording on the podcast
Artificial Intelligence for the Education and Leadershipin the Sector. It's episode twelve,
so we've made it to twelve andI think we're gathering pace rather than help
them feeling like we've peaked. Sowe've got four of us in the room
today, so we're gonna need afew intros and we're going to need to
(00:22):
navigate voices a little bit here,but Kurt, let's us always start with
you and welcome back. It's greatto see you again. Thank you Richard,
great to be here, and welcomeConrad and Adam. Welcome Conrad,
Yeah, thank you great, andthank you Richard for inviting us. Yeah.
I'm Conrad Taylor, the Business Learningand Technologist manager at the college.
So I might say, what isthat belt? I think when the principle
(00:43):
did come up with that role probablywas having a bilty sandwich, so that's
right. But what that mtail isbasically, I have been in the sector
for over twenty three years and mycurrent my role spanned from computing lecturers right
up to advanced practitioner E learning quiteand now more responsible for our cross college
sector. So we did my role. I'm responsible for all the systems to
(01:07):
do with teaching and learning, staffand students, digital skills, and also
business processes. So therefore, anywherewhere technology can support the business moving forward,
that's where I come in here,and a little bit of an element
of the MIAs system also, soyou can see I'm doubling a bit right
across the organization. I would say, it's wonderful to have you here.
I just came off a conversation witha senior executive at Dell and they were
(01:29):
saying how difficult it is to doAI projects in the enterprise, and I
thought, any projects are difficult inthe enterprise. Any digital transformation is difficult,
and this is no different in thatsense. So we may touch on
those elements today much. You're verywelcoming, Adam Dwight. Welcome to you.
Yeah, Hi, Yeah, I'mhaving Dwight. I I'm so teacher.
(01:51):
I've been teaching a long time,so I've been at the college nearly
thirty years now. I was asports teacher for many years. I've got
a PhD in sports. I've gotinteresting research as well. I was an
English teacher for a short while andthen in the last few years, I've
gained my dream job really because it'sbeen a combination of training teachers. So
I'm a teacher educator, so Iteach on the main teaching qualifications at the
(02:15):
college, and I'm also a learninginnovator, so in that respect, I
work with Conrad to develop the staff'suse of twenty first century skills, twenty
first century technologies, and obviously inthe last twelve months been heavily involved in
the integration of artificial intelligence and actuallya lot of stuff around virtual reality as
(02:36):
well. So it's been an excitingfew years. That's brilliant. Thank you
so much for navigatings both of you. There amazing college, City of Wolverhampton
College, what a college, andyou've been on a journey. It's been
great to hear their transformation journey andtechnology that you've been taking and hear a
little bit about how you've done that. For us. It actually started back
(02:57):
in twenty twelve. I thinking goingback so far, but that's our digital
transformation and we are currently in transformationthree. Find out that's where we are.
So it started all out when wegot an offsted grade that was basically
not where we wanted to be ofinadequate. But then we used to do
observation grading and I can say wedon't really do grading of such, no,
(03:21):
with more of the supportive role.And what we did back then,
we used to say, if youget a grade one, or you get
an iPad. So our journey startedoff by doing iPad in the classroom and
a lot of teachers start improving theiroutcomings in the classroom by actually wanting the
iPad in the classroom. And thenwe realized that listen, it might be
(03:43):
good to do that, but we'vegot to actually listen to this college community,
which is the staff, the students, the business support, every single
one. And what we found wasthat at the time, Wi Fi was
a big issue for us, andthat's we start in investing more in Wi
Fi, making sure get rid ofall the hotspots that spots. We start
(04:04):
investing more in allowing students to haveindependent learning by loaning out devices for different
classrooms in this case, and thenwe start looking at the type of technology
that could be utilized in the classroom. So what we then decided to do
is start recruiting the column back thene drivers, which is more similar to
(04:25):
Adam Rohner. Learning innovators and thoseE drivers were closely with the advanced practitioners
to ensure that technology was utilized withinthe classroom to aid teaching them and learning.
So we decided every Wednesday afternoon wouldbe CPD time for staff, so
all courses timetable would be closed downand every Wednesday afternoon that would be CPD
(04:47):
developing time. That is still runningtoday. It might have taken different shapes,
but it is still running today asreal commitment, isn't it to start
development? As you say, it'sstill running through today because that was one
of things that was going to askyou, And sorry to batting us,
but I was really interested too,just to explore that a little bit about
baseline skills with staff and that baselineassessment and then yes, I think you're
(05:10):
partially answered. With this ongoing CPDprogram, it run us a little bit
through there the way it is nowin that transformation journey. It is that
from advanced practitioners and learning innovators goingout and work with staff, they have
identified where the training needs are.From that, we then decided what sessions
should be led. At these CPDsessions every department can lead and we also
(05:35):
decided from a core team to saythese are some of the topics that we
want to put out here in termsof identifying staff needs. That is something
that we're currently working with JISS toactually bring in something that could baseline staff
digital skills as to where they arebefore. As an organization, we always
(05:55):
focus on academic stuff because it's acore of the business. But at over
In College we've changed that model tosay it's the college community and every staff
needs to be developed digitally in orderto live, learn, and work in
a digit society. So about threejust before COVID start, we created a
training model program known as DFL,which is defining Future Learning and as part
(06:19):
of that DFL model, staff wouldcomplete badges that they would gain to while
developing different type of digital skills.And the DFL program it's geared around different
roles, So based on the rolesthat you are in put in the organization,
you get slightly different training, morepersonalized to you in this case.
(06:43):
So that's what we've done there rightnow. The digital infrastructure piece that you
mentioned that right up frontage that's areally significant vestment and one over time,
isn't it. How have you dealtwith the accessibility for the future, making
sure we've got equity with students havegot the access to the devices and how
we're in the software they might need. How have you cope with the One
of the things that we try todo is to ensure that students have got
(07:05):
the right device. And that's whywe still go with digital days now because
even though after COVID everybody wants togo back in the classroom of sudden sense,
what we still do is twice ayear now the campus is closed and
students learn from home, just toensure that they still understand that digital learning
away from the institution is still away forward for us. So every transformation
(07:29):
takes time. We first try toimprove the infrastructure. All of foreign business
processes is now in the cloud base, so we've got nothing on site in
this case, So that's one ofthe transformation that we've actually done. From
that perspective, all of our studentsare in the cloud, staff from the
cloud. Everything is in the cloud. I'm really excited to explore your role
a bit more actually, because Iknow these roles have emerged and edam as
(07:51):
well. Actually, I'm sure edwant to come in on this one and
talking about what your roles entail.Now, what is a typical day look
like? For Conrad, what isyour day look life? And these like
I say, these roles are evolving, emerging, developing. Tell us what
your day looks like. It's ahugely pressurized environment each and we know that,
and I think it can't be underestimatedthe importance of mentoring and coaching.
(08:11):
In recent years. I always usedto work closely with the e drivers because
I've always had an interest and I'vealways seen the importance of technology and just
to see how students can be motivatedto use ICT for learning in a productive
way, not for the sake ofit. And in recent years it was
really around COVID that I gained theposition as learning innovator, and then we
were dropped right into it because obviouslywe know what happened in February March twenty
(08:37):
twenty where we had to then quicklysupport staff making that transformation delivering from homes
and that sort of coincided with thelaunch of the DFL scheme that Conrad described.
So actually one of our badges wasteams, so that staff knew all
the features of using teams and thingslike breakout rooms that could be groundbreaking into
(09:00):
getting students to talk to each other. And so that's a flavor really that
probably isn't aswer your question about typicalday now, but that's how I've got
to this point where my day isreally working with staff most of the time.
Whether it's shown them how to useVR, we use body swaps.
I'm sure we'll talk about it somestage, or showing them how to use
AI and how it can make thejobs easier, make them more efficient,
(09:24):
how they can use it with studentsin an ethical way. Again, there's
a few little topics here that I'msure we'll come back to. But that's
that's answers your question there or there. You're a teacher, it's exactly you're
teaching staff. That's what you doevery day. That's exactly the point,
isn't it. It's not about beingsome sort of technician that in the background
is playing with the software to makeit work. This is a teaching role.
(09:46):
You're out there teaching staff how touse the tools most effectively. That
is exactly just going back to usthe way our organizations see things. As
I said, we're Iteration Digital threepoint tal and for us, there is
four things that we focus on inour strategy right, and that is people
first, which is developing the people, because the way we see it is
(10:09):
if you don't get the people writewith the right skills or can you provide
the right experience then to these students, and that's where we look at it.
Once we got the people right,it's the processes that support those people.
So we look at processes next thenbecause you have excellent people, good
processes that basically drive good students experience. But between processes, people and students
(10:33):
experience, we're talking about infrastructure acrossthose three piece and that's what our digital
strategy covers, those four key elementsbasically, and that's why where we are
now is like when AI first,where it's d We realize that as an
organization we need to develop over staff. We need to see where this is
(10:56):
going to change education, which firstcame out myself and Anodam in January.
We was on it. Basically startexploring and seeing this is something that could
change our life. But I thinkthe core find a favorite thing there is
actually we wanted something that would giveteacher about your time. Yeah, that's
the main thing there. There wasa real focus of the attention. Obviously,
a lot of the time people areusing AI really effectively as an extension
(11:20):
of a search engine. Okay,and the great thing about it is it's
better than that because you can chatwith it. But then we started to
think, actually, is that utilizingthe chat to its full degree? So
we run these swap programs. Andthe swap program is a very short course
where I think normally to referl fromthe job center and students can come to
the college. It's normally adults whoare retraining, they've been in different jobs,
(11:45):
and at the end of the programthey're guaranteed a job interview with a
particular employer. And we're already usingvirtual reality in body swaps. It's a
soft skills program where students can puta headset on and they can practice their
interview skills in a virtual environment asave the environment, and it gives them
feedback about those soft skills, howwell do they answer the questions. That's
(12:07):
got AI built into it now,But we wanted to try out I'd seen
a prompt on social media about aninterview prompt where the student could put the
details of the job in and thenthe AI would conduct an interview with them,
and at the end of it,they'd have a full transcription of the
whole process ashement's got this instant feedbackon how they'd performed, and they all
(12:33):
said it was fantastic preparation. Combinedwith the VR body swaps for the actual
interview, and then just last coupleof things, I thought, well,
we could extend that. Now,we can use that when we're training mentors
because they can act out mentoring modelsand they could be both mentors and MENTEESYI
would take up both roles. Ourcounseling lecturers started to use it for counseling
(12:58):
models, and so they again,the AI would either be the counselor or
and you'd be the client or andthen you could swap over, so in
a whole host of roles. Themore interactive role play has worked so well
for us. So I'm going tosure up now, but please don't,
please, please don't. You musttell us more because this is something we
(13:18):
really haven't explored much at all,and it's an extension of what I think
we've been talking about with assessment andinstantaneous feedback and how you get that.
You're giving a really great example ofwhereas interacting directly and they're getting direct,
quick feedback that you can then adaptand change towards. So a great example
of assessment in the work that you'redoing there sounds magic and I'm certainly going
(13:39):
to take that one away myself.We were talking recently, in fact,
it was one of our last podcasts, or The End Price, and he
was talking about being careful that wedidn't all end up as tofu and not
having any real difference in the waythat I love that actually, by the
way, but the whole point aboutit was using some of these tools perhaps
or we not up is having nota lot of difference between us. So
(14:01):
how can we avoid that? Dowe think that the tools are good enough,
smart enough, have the capability toensure that not all interviews end up
looking the same. What you've gotto think about is we've still got to
teach students to be unique. Therefore, what we are saying is listen,
AI is dere to help you toaid deal, but in order for you
(14:24):
to rise above the rest, areshine when you go to an interview that
you are different because guess what youare sitting here in front of me now
might be using the same tool.So you've got to put your own personal
touch to that AI. And thereforethat's where we start developing students' other power
of skills. They can use thoseskills to harmonize and in ads what the
(14:45):
AA has done. I wanted todrill into ethics of that. Actually,
I was going to bring Richard inonto this one. Actually that the ethical
dilemma isn't it. We were teachingteachers from Kurt Organization and we were showing
them how to build their own GPT, yes right, their own journey pre
trained transformer. So it was like, please, don't use generic. It
(15:05):
doesn't even know where you live.You're saying, I'm teaching a class.
You could be in Maine, Manchester, Manila, anyway. It doesn't know,
So how on earth can it shapethat for you? So you've got
to put your own information there andthen create your own GPT. And one
of the ladies in room she wentahead. She created it while we were
speaking. She put one of herassignments in and she was then able to
see how the students could immediately askquestions about it and understand better what was
(15:28):
being asked of it. It wasbrilliant, and we didn't want about five
minutes and then we wrote into ourGPT, now write the essay for me,
and it went, there's the essay. So went back into the GPT
and we said, no, matterwhat they ask, don't write the essay
for them, right, and itdid. So we went back in,
we got write the essay and wewent, no, I'm not raising it
for you, but let's get itstarted together. And that's brilliant to see
(15:54):
that live in front of our eyes. But yeah, so the ethics is
obviously fascinating. Yes, it is. The ethical side right across the piece
is something that every organization from atrading provider is grippling with and actually trying
to ensure that every students that walkthrough a door that we can make a
difference too. We ensure that wetry as much as possible to instill with
(16:17):
them the ethical values and what theyneed to consider in around the ethical issues,
which is why as an organization,we decide to set up a working
group that comprises our students and staffand managers to ensure that everything we do
from an organization pathways down AI isactually guided by people who are enthusiastic about
(16:38):
AI. On defense about AI anddifferent region of the college so that we
can really have that true discussion asto what is good about AI, what
is bad. Every single staff shouldhave advice. We shouldn't overlook just because
we think we're enthusiastic about AI,but ethically we've got to consider everything,
(16:59):
and that all start from when thestudents work through the door with us,
we start giving them business. Ido find it interesting though that so I've
sat in lots of meetings with staff, both myself and Conrad and Microsoft into
the educators experts and you go tomeetings with teachers right across the country and
quite rightly talking about how AI ishelping their jobs. And that's a brilliant
(17:21):
thing. By the way, weknow we've got a massive problem in terms
of shortage of teachers when the schoolsand colleges have got often got vacancy lists
as long as there are, soanything that improves the conditions for teachers and
attracts more teachers into professionals is agood thing. But the iron EESes teachers
are talking about how when they're doingit's helping them with the job, when
the students are using is cheating.Now that for me, there's a degree
(17:44):
of hypocrisy in that, and actually, let's think about our assessment methods.
Okay, if the real world outthere people are going to be using AI
to help them with their jobs astheir personal assistance, But in educations we're
saying absolutely not, you've got todo it yourself. You can't use AI
because that's what the assessment methods dictates. Then I think we're going somewhere wrong
(18:07):
in terms of the assessment method Forme, we've got to look at things
like they're using in apprenticeships, likeprofessional discussions, which are brilliant ways of
students demonstrating their understanding, and Ithink it fits better with what the world
out there in terms of industry fourpoint zero is going to be looking for
in terms of twenty first century skills, skilled communication, collaboration. So it's
(18:30):
unethical not to let the students learnabout AI. Would be something I just
throw in the mix here. Yeah, good points, Yeah, I would
agree with It's definitely any because weknow that they are going to come into
contact with that. We know thatas providers, we are putting them out
there into a world where AI is, so it's our job to actually embrace
(18:52):
it and do try to deliver theinformation about AA to be used effectively.
Just like the web. We're tryingto about it to be affected digital citizens.
It's the same thing. It's atool out there that we need as
an organization to embrace and learn everythingabout it. Listen, at the moment,
we know that at the moment isin the wild West. For our
(19:12):
education, at the moment is thewild West, because where can you go
on at the moment to find thebest tool for checking pleasure is in I
don't want to We can't give aone hundred percent into that, So it's
the wild West. But collectively usin this sector need to come together and
decide the approaches that's best to workcollaborative going forward to ensure that students got
(19:34):
the right skills to move for thefuture. And one of the things that
I think is fantastic is that theEV sector moves and is extremely dynamic.
It can turn on a dime.And I think that's it's now down to
us and I think you placed thatbeautifully. Actually is that we've done so
much on piedigoty really and pedigoty isgoing to increasingly dominate what we do here.
(19:55):
But actually, now we're turning andlooking at assessment and shining the light
and spotlight on assessment there, Ithink is this next big great jump that
has to happen. And I thinkperhaps his aren't is really and prepared as
perhaps if the sector us for thisvery dynamic change and quick change. You
talk about it, Adam, andsome of the already common assessment methods that
are used other than point assessment andwritten assessment and things that we are commonly
(20:18):
using actually, and I think there'sthat certainly looks like a big focus in
spotlight for coming up what we areright. One of the things that us
as a college has been looking atbut it passed well, I would say
from middle of the year last yearis different assessment strategies. Assessment strategies where
our students can be used to actuallydemonstrate their skills and knowledge rather than ask
(20:41):
them to do written reports, etcetera. We are currently looking at different
ways that we can harmor a teacherwith different These are the different tools that
you can use to enable students toshow us your skills and knowledge rather than
just writ enough. It's a bitbecause it's easy for AA to replicate that
and then decided for you to provethat students has got that skills the knowledge.
That is a big focus for us, and we're willing to work without
(21:03):
our organization to come up with allthe different strategies plus the tools to enable
students to do that, such aslike videos rather than that right in now
report actuidents to actually create a sharpvideo explaining something. That's the students demonstrating
their knowledge, just different ways.I've showing that. Indeed, so we've
perhaps we shouldn't need plagiarism tools andperhaps that is actually the problem that we
(21:26):
still need them a different Strand Now, what do you think is going to
look like to be a teacher inten years time? I think to be
a teacher in ten years time willbe more around developing skills, power skills,
person skills in this case, andmore guide on this side. That's
(21:48):
what I think, because I thinkthey're going to be so much tools that
our students can go to get theinformation. From a teacher perspective, I
think it's going to be so mucheasier for teachers to learn how to do
things quickly because there's going to betools that says, tell me how to
do this now and at all beable to produce something. Are the planning
(22:08):
time that our teachers are doing now, I think that's going to be all
reduced to not much time later on. So therefore it's going to give teachers
more time to spend on their skillset with your students and transferring that information
onto the students in different method discussion, developing those in depth theories and stuff
like that. So that's what Isee that around in this case in classrooms,
(22:32):
there's going to be a personal assistancefor every students. That's why I
see yeah, so perhaps we're goingto be coach and facilitator right as a
correct guide and decided definitely indeed,Yeah, my vision for teaching would be,
and I hope this happens, andI hope AI helps this, that
the students have got these tools tohelp them with those things, so it's
(22:52):
much easier for them to access factsand knowledge, and we can spend much
more time in the classroom and operatingon high order thinking skills, collaboration discussion,
thinking more deeply about the topics.And let's be honest about it.
If we're going to tackle some ofthe world's problems that we know in terms
of climate change and geopolitical issues,we're going to need our sudents operating at
(23:18):
that level, aren't we It's notgoing to be enough sending young people out
from education with just having learned facts. They're going to do a lot more
than that. They're going to needreal twenty first century skills to solve those
real twenty first century problems that weknow aren't going away and they're becoming critical
now. Yeah, and listen,teachers, in the future, things will
(23:41):
change, just like technology has evolvedover the years and rapidly changing momentous.
Teachers need to change oursels. WhenI say need to change, because I
don't see technology as a love.When a teacher to lose their job,
I don't see that. I thinkof a teacher can actually armorize the technology
and unser the where their work,unchange the model. If they work not
(24:03):
necessarily they're going to lose their job. But I do strongly would say that
in today's society, if a teacherfailed to embrace technology, I think we'll
move along without that person in theworld. Basically it yeah, yeah,
I think if the person who's inour classroom right now that all of these
our tools are a natural part oftheir upbringing. If you're like a twelve
(24:25):
year old right now, which isjust naturally enhanced now by all of the
tools they've got available their fingertips,and they're using them natively and naturally that's
our teacher. In ten years time, that is what our teacher will be,
because they'll be twenty two and they'llbe coming out to teach in our
classrooms and they will naturally have thosewithin their gift And how will they use
those and how fitable will they be, how fit of theirs, a motivating
(24:48):
will they be as a coach,as a facilitator, and perhaps naturally they'll
emerge like that in the way thatyou say. So it is fantastic,
definitely, but we've got to thinkabout it during that transition. How do
we get those current teachers in theclassroom to have those skills to prepare those
students to be those educators for thefuture with those skills. Definitely, and
(25:11):
so we deliver on behalf of WolverhamptonUniversity, one of the partner colleges of
their foundation degree. Sir ted,I'm sure you're familiar with that in f
fee and the profit ground for thoseof the degree, and it's not there
in the curriculum at the moment.But to be honestly, you're like any
educate. So I ensure that itis in the curriculum because I think it's
absolutely essential that the teachers are embracingit. This burning question in my mind
(25:34):
about skills mastery, and it's beenburning in my mind for a little bit
of time. We all know aboutthe ten thousand hour model, which it
says that you need ten thousand hoursof practice and continuous practice in a particular
activity to get skills mastery, andI just wonder about that and how that
applies now and the use of thetechnology. Are we genuinely going to have
(25:56):
people who get to skills mastery inany particular area of expertise because of the
use in generation and use of AItools. Well, let's create effectively a
dumbing down. I do think itprobably will in terms of skill master whether
we won't be able to master theskills that we've got now because we've got
the tool that does it for usin this case. So I do agree
(26:18):
with you to some extent. Butit's the same time is that you are
developing new skills, and those newskills that you're developing allow you to be
more creative in announcing what you're tryingto produce. Yeah, I wonder about
leap frogging our ability to gain skillsmastery. So there's that question mark of
do you really need ten thousand hoursthen, and do you only really need
(26:41):
two thousand because actually there's a wholebunch of tools that allow you to gain
skills mastery a lot faster, andI think that's go on go on.
It's critical too, because there aregoing to be skills across your teaching stuff
and the wider population that become nolonger as relevant or useful that people have
done the ten thousand hours. Thinkabout London taxi drivers, for example,
(27:02):
and their knowledge of London. AndI remember working at Oracle, and I've
been there for five years and Iunderstood all of the internal workings of Oracle
and nowhere else in the world wasthat going to be useful. So part
of me thinking, I don't wantto leave because it's taken so long to
learn all these sorts of things.So we feel that pain, don't we
That something that we've worked so hardfor is no longer going to have its
(27:23):
own relevance, important significance to us. That's not going to be easy for
a lot of people. But weI was just going to say, it's
really interesting questions you're posing. Butactually, we know we've got a problem
at the moment. We know we'renot in a utopia. We know that,
as I say, schools and collegeis a massive shortage of teachers.
(27:45):
We're not recruiting enough teachers. Soif AI can make the job more attractive
in some way, that might solvethe problem. Because it's in my fear
as a teacher educator the last fewyears that parents in ten years time are
going to be saying, who's goingto teach my children? We're going to
(28:06):
be in that ridiculous situation in thiscountry where the parents will be panicking because
they literally they won't have anyone toteach the children, or the quality of
the people teaching it won't be whatit is now. And so I think
if AI can assist in that issue, whether that's making the job more attractive,
making the job more skillful, andtherefore the job gains higher status in
(28:30):
the society, that I think itshould have. To be perfect honest with
you, I remember a famous quotefrom the West Wing where I think there's
a rob low character talked about everyschool should be like a palace with the
very best technology. This is thenext generation that we're training. Every teacher
should be earning the six figure salary. I couldn't agree with the states part
(28:51):
of the prestigiousness the salary. Itsounds fantastic, But I guess on top
of that as well, we've gotto reflect on the future of jobs.
But maybe again, this is anopportunity and maybe people can be working on
a more contractual basis or a parttime basis supported by AI. People that
wouldn't be able to do it rightnow or don't have the time to do
the training, who would be avaluable asset to the industry. Yes,
(29:12):
yes, and this is where it'sgoing to change SMEs where SEME look,
any type of company look like,oh, they recruit nowadays without looking to
see where AI is. I thinkwe've come towards the end of our conversation
with a hopeful but also one ofsafeguarding concern and a holistic approach to a
(29:34):
huge technology. It's not forget thatchat GPT has had eleven billion dollars recently
invested into its imagine just using atool that somebody spent eleven billion dollars to
build. It bobbles the mind.Gents. I feel like we could do
another hour or two, but sadlywe have to close the curtain on this
(29:55):
particular conversation. But I'm sure wecan have more. Thank you both so
much much, Adam Comrade, it'sa huge pleasure to have you on the
show. You've brought so much,so many ideas that we can take forward
in this conversation and beyond. Thankyou, guys, Thank you very much.
The opportunities, thanks very much toget that. Thank you
We've skipped a week, but we'revery much back now recording on the podcast
Artificial Intelligence for the Education and Leadershipin the Sector. It's episode twelve,
so we've made it to twelve andI think we're gathering pace rather than help
them feeling like we've peaked. Sowe've got four of us in the room
today, so we're gonna need afew intros and we're going to need to
(00:22):
navigate voices a little bit here,but Kurt, let's us always start with
you and welcome back. It's greatto see you again. Thank you Richard,
great to be here, and welcomeConrad and Adam. Welcome Conrad,
Yeah, thank you great, andthank you Richard for inviting us. Yeah.
I'm Conrad Taylor, the Business Learningand Technologist manager at the college.
So I might say, what isthat belt? I think when the principle
(00:43):
did come up with that role probablywas having a bilty sandwich, so that's
right. But what that mtail isbasically, I have been in the sector
for over twenty three years and mycurrent my role spanned from computing lecturers right
up to advanced practitioner E learning quiteand now more responsible for our cross college
sector. So we did my role. I'm responsible for all the systems to
(01:07):
do with teaching and learning, staffand students, digital skills, and also
business processes. So therefore, anywherewhere technology can support the business moving forward,
that's where I come in here,and a little bit of an element
of the MIAs system also, soyou can see I'm doubling a bit right
across the organization. I would say, it's wonderful to have you here.
I just came off a conversation witha senior executive at Dell and they were
(01:29):
saying how difficult it is to doAI projects in the enterprise, and I
thought, any projects are difficult inthe enterprise. Any digital transformation is difficult,
and this is no different in thatsense. So we may touch on
those elements today much. You're verywelcoming, Adam Dwight. Welcome to you.
Yeah, Hi, Yeah, I'mhaving Dwight. I I'm so teacher.
(01:51):
I've been teaching a long time,so I've been at the college nearly
thirty years now. I was asports teacher for many years. I've got
a PhD in sports. I've gotinteresting research as well. I was an
English teacher for a short while andthen in the last few years, I've
gained my dream job really because it'sbeen a combination of training teachers. So
I'm a teacher educator, so Iteach on the main teaching qualifications at the
(02:15):
college, and I'm also a learninginnovator, so in that respect, I
work with Conrad to develop the staff'suse of twenty first century skills, twenty
first century technologies, and obviously inthe last twelve months been heavily involved in
the integration of artificial intelligence and actuallya lot of stuff around virtual reality as
(02:36):
well. So it's been an excitingfew years. That's brilliant. Thank you
so much for navigatings both of you. There amazing college, City of Wolverhampton
College, what a college, andyou've been on a journey. It's been
great to hear their transformation journey andtechnology that you've been taking and hear a
little bit about how you've done that. For us. It actually started back
(02:57):
in twenty twelve. I thinking goingback so far, but that's our digital
transformation and we are currently in transformationthree. Find out that's where we are.
So it started all out when wegot an offsted grade that was basically
not where we wanted to be ofinadequate. But then we used to do
observation grading and I can say wedon't really do grading of such, no,
(03:21):
with more of the supportive role.And what we did back then,
we used to say, if youget a grade one, or you get
an iPad. So our journey startedoff by doing iPad in the classroom and
a lot of teachers start improving theiroutcomings in the classroom by actually wanting the
iPad in the classroom. And thenwe realized that listen, it might be
(03:43):
good to do that, but we'vegot to actually listen to this college community,
which is the staff, the students, the business support, every single
one. And what we found wasthat at the time, Wi Fi was
a big issue for us, andthat's we start in investing more in Wi
Fi, making sure get rid ofall the hotspots that spots. We start
(04:04):
investing more in allowing students to haveindependent learning by loaning out devices for different
classrooms in this case, and thenwe start looking at the type of technology
that could be utilized in the classroom. So what we then decided to do
is start recruiting the column back thene drivers, which is more similar to
(04:25):
Adam Rohner. Learning innovators and thoseE drivers were closely with the advanced practitioners
to ensure that technology was utilized withinthe classroom to aid teaching them and learning.
So we decided every Wednesday afternoon wouldbe CPD time for staff, so
all courses timetable would be closed downand every Wednesday afternoon that would be CPD
(04:47):
developing time. That is still runningtoday. It might have taken different shapes,
but it is still running today asreal commitment, isn't it to start
development? As you say, it'sstill running through today because that was one
of things that was going to askyou, And sorry to batting us,
but I was really interested too,just to explore that a little bit about
baseline skills with staff and that baselineassessment and then yes, I think you're
(05:10):
partially answered. With this ongoing CPDprogram, it run us a little bit
through there the way it is nowin that transformation journey. It is that
from advanced practitioners and learning innovators goingout and work with staff, they have
identified where the training needs are.From that, we then decided what sessions
should be led. At these CPDsessions every department can lead and we also
(05:35):
decided from a core team to saythese are some of the topics that we
want to put out here in termsof identifying staff needs. That is something
that we're currently working with JISS toactually bring in something that could baseline staff
digital skills as to where they arebefore. As an organization, we always
(05:55):
focus on academic stuff because it's acore of the business. But at over
In College we've changed that model tosay it's the college community and every staff
needs to be developed digitally in orderto live, learn, and work in
a digit society. So about threejust before COVID start, we created a
training model program known as DFL,which is defining Future Learning and as part
(06:19):
of that DFL model, staff wouldcomplete badges that they would gain to while
developing different type of digital skills.And the DFL program it's geared around different
roles, So based on the rolesthat you are in put in the organization,
you get slightly different training, morepersonalized to you in this case.
(06:43):
So that's what we've done there rightnow. The digital infrastructure piece that you
mentioned that right up frontage that's areally significant vestment and one over time,
isn't it. How have you dealtwith the accessibility for the future, making
sure we've got equity with students havegot the access to the devices and how
we're in the software they might need. How have you cope with the One
of the things that we try todo is to ensure that students have got
(07:05):
the right device. And that's whywe still go with digital days now because
even though after COVID everybody wants togo back in the classroom of sudden sense,
what we still do is twice ayear now the campus is closed and
students learn from home, just toensure that they still understand that digital learning
away from the institution is still away forward for us. So every transformation
(07:29):
takes time. We first try toimprove the infrastructure. All of foreign business
processes is now in the cloud base, so we've got nothing on site in
this case, So that's one ofthe transformation that we've actually done. From
that perspective, all of our studentsare in the cloud, staff from the
cloud. Everything is in the cloud. I'm really excited to explore your role
a bit more actually, because Iknow these roles have emerged and edam as
(07:51):
well. Actually, I'm sure edwant to come in on this one and
talking about what your roles entail.Now, what is a typical day look
like? For Conrad, what isyour day look life? And these like
I say, these roles are evolving, emerging, developing. Tell us what
your day looks like. It's ahugely pressurized environment each and we know that,
and I think it can't be underestimatedthe importance of mentoring and coaching.
(08:11):
In recent years. I always usedto work closely with the e drivers because
I've always had an interest and I'vealways seen the importance of technology and just
to see how students can be motivatedto use ICT for learning in a productive
way, not for the sake ofit. And in recent years it was
really around COVID that I gained theposition as learning innovator, and then we
were dropped right into it because obviouslywe know what happened in February March twenty
(08:37):
twenty where we had to then quicklysupport staff making that transformation delivering from homes
and that sort of coincided with thelaunch of the DFL scheme that Conrad described.
So actually one of our badges wasteams, so that staff knew all
the features of using teams and thingslike breakout rooms that could be groundbreaking into
(09:00):
getting students to talk to each other. And so that's a flavor really that
probably isn't aswer your question about typicalday now, but that's how I've got
to this point where my day isreally working with staff most of the time.
Whether it's shown them how to useVR, we use body swaps.
I'm sure we'll talk about it somestage, or showing them how to use
AI and how it can make thejobs easier, make them more efficient,
(09:24):
how they can use it with studentsin an ethical way. Again, there's
a few little topics here that I'msure we'll come back to. But that's
that's answers your question there or there. You're a teacher, it's exactly you're
teaching staff. That's what you doevery day. That's exactly the point,
isn't it. It's not about beingsome sort of technician that in the background
is playing with the software to makeit work. This is a teaching role.
(09:46):
You're out there teaching staff how touse the tools most effectively. That
is exactly just going back to usthe way our organizations see things. As
I said, we're Iteration Digital threepoint tal and for us, there is
four things that we focus on inour strategy right, and that is people
first, which is developing the people, because the way we see it is
(10:09):
if you don't get the people writewith the right skills or can you provide
the right experience then to these students, and that's where we look at it.
Once we got the people right,it's the processes that support those people.
So we look at processes next thenbecause you have excellent people, good
processes that basically drive good students experience. But between processes, people and students
(10:33):
experience, we're talking about infrastructure acrossthose three piece and that's what our digital
strategy covers, those four key elementsbasically, and that's why where we are
now is like when AI first,where it's d We realize that as an
organization we need to develop over staff. We need to see where this is
(10:56):
going to change education, which firstcame out myself and Anodam in January.
We was on it. Basically startexploring and seeing this is something that could
change our life. But I thinkthe core find a favorite thing there is
actually we wanted something that would giveteacher about your time. Yeah, that's
the main thing there. There wasa real focus of the attention. Obviously,
a lot of the time people areusing AI really effectively as an extension
(11:20):
of a search engine. Okay,and the great thing about it is it's
better than that because you can chatwith it. But then we started to
think, actually, is that utilizingthe chat to its full degree? So
we run these swap programs. Andthe swap program is a very short course
where I think normally to referl fromthe job center and students can come to
the college. It's normally adults whoare retraining, they've been in different jobs,
(11:45):
and at the end of the programthey're guaranteed a job interview with a
particular employer. And we're already usingvirtual reality in body swaps. It's a
soft skills program where students can puta headset on and they can practice their
interview skills in a virtual environment asave the environment, and it gives them
feedback about those soft skills, howwell do they answer the questions. That's
(12:07):
got AI built into it now,But we wanted to try out I'd seen
a prompt on social media about aninterview prompt where the student could put the
details of the job in and thenthe AI would conduct an interview with them,
and at the end of it,they'd have a full transcription of the
whole process ashement's got this instant feedbackon how they'd performed, and they all
(12:33):
said it was fantastic preparation. Combinedwith the VR body swaps for the actual
interview, and then just last coupleof things, I thought, well,
we could extend that. Now,we can use that when we're training mentors
because they can act out mentoring modelsand they could be both mentors and MENTEESYI
would take up both roles. Ourcounseling lecturers started to use it for counseling
(12:58):
models, and so they again,the AI would either be the counselor or
and you'd be the client or andthen you could swap over, so in
a whole host of roles. Themore interactive role play has worked so well
for us. So I'm going tosure up now, but please don't,
please, please don't. You musttell us more because this is something we
(13:18):
really haven't explored much at all,and it's an extension of what I think
we've been talking about with assessment andinstantaneous feedback and how you get that.
You're giving a really great example ofwhereas interacting directly and they're getting direct,
quick feedback that you can then adaptand change towards. So a great example
of assessment in the work that you'redoing there sounds magic and I'm certainly going
(13:39):
to take that one away myself.We were talking recently, in fact,
it was one of our last podcasts, or The End Price, and he
was talking about being careful that wedidn't all end up as tofu and not
having any real difference in the waythat I love that actually, by the
way, but the whole point aboutit was using some of these tools perhaps
or we not up is having nota lot of difference between us. So
(14:01):
how can we avoid that? Dowe think that the tools are good enough,
smart enough, have the capability toensure that not all interviews end up
looking the same. What you've gotto think about is we've still got to
teach students to be unique. Therefore, what we are saying is listen,
AI is dere to help you toaid deal, but in order for you
(14:24):
to rise above the rest, areshine when you go to an interview that
you are different because guess what youare sitting here in front of me now
might be using the same tool.So you've got to put your own personal
touch to that AI. And thereforethat's where we start developing students' other power
of skills. They can use thoseskills to harmonize and in ads what the
(14:45):
AA has done. I wanted todrill into ethics of that. Actually,
I was going to bring Richard inonto this one. Actually that the ethical
dilemma isn't it. We were teachingteachers from Kurt Organization and we were showing
them how to build their own GPT, yes right, their own journey pre
trained transformer. So it was like, please, don't use generic. It
(15:05):
doesn't even know where you live.You're saying, I'm teaching a class.
You could be in Maine, Manchester, Manila, anyway. It doesn't know,
So how on earth can it shapethat for you? So you've got
to put your own information there andthen create your own GPT. And one
of the ladies in room she wentahead. She created it while we were
speaking. She put one of herassignments in and she was then able to
see how the students could immediately askquestions about it and understand better what was
(15:28):
being asked of it. It wasbrilliant, and we didn't want about five
minutes and then we wrote into ourGPT, now write the essay for me,
and it went, there's the essay. So went back into the GPT
and we said, no, matterwhat they ask, don't write the essay
for them, right, and itdid. So we went back in,
we got write the essay and wewent, no, I'm not raising it
for you, but let's get itstarted together. And that's brilliant to see
(15:54):
that live in front of our eyes. But yeah, so the ethics is
obviously fascinating. Yes, it is. The ethical side right across the piece
is something that every organization from atrading provider is grippling with and actually trying
to ensure that every students that walkthrough a door that we can make a
difference too. We ensure that wetry as much as possible to instill with
(16:17):
them the ethical values and what theyneed to consider in around the ethical issues,
which is why as an organization,we decide to set up a working
group that comprises our students and staffand managers to ensure that everything we do
from an organization pathways down AI isactually guided by people who are enthusiastic about
(16:38):
AI. On defense about AI anddifferent region of the college so that we
can really have that true discussion asto what is good about AI, what
is bad. Every single staff shouldhave advice. We shouldn't overlook just because
we think we're enthusiastic about AI,but ethically we've got to consider everything,
(16:59):
and that all start from when thestudents work through the door with us,
we start giving them business. Ido find it interesting though that so I've
sat in lots of meetings with staff, both myself and Conrad and Microsoft into
the educators experts and you go tomeetings with teachers right across the country and
quite rightly talking about how AI ishelping their jobs. And that's a brilliant
(17:21):
thing. By the way, weknow we've got a massive problem in terms
of shortage of teachers when the schoolsand colleges have got often got vacancy lists
as long as there are, soanything that improves the conditions for teachers and
attracts more teachers into professionals is agood thing. But the iron EESes teachers
are talking about how when they're doingit's helping them with the job, when
the students are using is cheating.Now that for me, there's a degree
(17:44):
of hypocrisy in that, and actually, let's think about our assessment methods.
Okay, if the real world outthere people are going to be using AI
to help them with their jobs astheir personal assistance, But in educations we're
saying absolutely not, you've got todo it yourself. You can't use AI
because that's what the assessment methods dictates. Then I think we're going somewhere wrong
(18:07):
in terms of the assessment method Forme, we've got to look at things
like they're using in apprenticeships, likeprofessional discussions, which are brilliant ways of
students demonstrating their understanding, and Ithink it fits better with what the world
out there in terms of industry fourpoint zero is going to be looking for
in terms of twenty first century skills, skilled communication, collaboration. So it's
(18:30):
unethical not to let the students learnabout AI. Would be something I just
throw in the mix here. Yeah, good points, Yeah, I would
agree with It's definitely any because weknow that they are going to come into
contact with that. We know thatas providers, we are putting them out
there into a world where AI is, so it's our job to actually embrace
(18:52):
it and do try to deliver theinformation about AA to be used effectively.
Just like the web. We're tryingto about it to be affected digital citizens.
It's the same thing. It's atool out there that we need as
an organization to embrace and learn everythingabout it. Listen, at the moment,
we know that at the moment isin the wild West. For our
(19:12):
education, at the moment is thewild West, because where can you go
on at the moment to find thebest tool for checking pleasure is in I
don't want to We can't give aone hundred percent into that, So it's
the wild West. But collectively usin this sector need to come together and
decide the approaches that's best to workcollaborative going forward to ensure that students got
(19:34):
the right skills to move for thefuture. And one of the things that
I think is fantastic is that theEV sector moves and is extremely dynamic.
It can turn on a dime.And I think that's it's now down to
us and I think you placed thatbeautifully. Actually is that we've done so
much on piedigoty really and pedigoty isgoing to increasingly dominate what we do here.
(19:55):
But actually, now we're turning andlooking at assessment and shining the light
and spotlight on assessment there, Ithink is this next big great jump that
has to happen. And I thinkperhaps his aren't is really and prepared as
perhaps if the sector us for thisvery dynamic change and quick change. You
talk about it, Adam, andsome of the already common assessment methods that
are used other than point assessment andwritten assessment and things that we are commonly
(20:18):
using actually, and I think there'sthat certainly looks like a big focus in
spotlight for coming up what we areright. One of the things that us
as a college has been looking atbut it passed well, I would say
from middle of the year last yearis different assessment strategies. Assessment strategies where
our students can be used to actuallydemonstrate their skills and knowledge rather than ask
(20:41):
them to do written reports, etcetera. We are currently looking at different
ways that we can harmor a teacherwith different These are the different tools that
you can use to enable students toshow us your skills and knowledge rather than
just writ enough. It's a bitbecause it's easy for AA to replicate that
and then decided for you to provethat students has got that skills the knowledge.
That is a big focus for us, and we're willing to work without
(21:03):
our organization to come up with allthe different strategies plus the tools to enable
students to do that, such aslike videos rather than that right in now
report actuidents to actually create a sharpvideo explaining something. That's the students demonstrating
their knowledge, just different ways.I've showing that. Indeed, so we've
perhaps we shouldn't need plagiarism tools andperhaps that is actually the problem that we
(21:26):
still need them a different Strand Now, what do you think is going to
look like to be a teacher inten years time? I think to be
a teacher in ten years time willbe more around developing skills, power skills,
person skills in this case, andmore guide on this side. That's
(21:48):
what I think, because I thinkthey're going to be so much tools that
our students can go to get theinformation. From a teacher perspective, I
think it's going to be so mucheasier for teachers to learn how to do
things quickly because there's going to betools that says, tell me how to
do this now and at all beable to produce something. Are the planning
(22:08):
time that our teachers are doing now, I think that's going to be all
reduced to not much time later on. So therefore it's going to give teachers
more time to spend on their skillset with your students and transferring that information
onto the students in different method discussion, developing those in depth theories and stuff
like that. So that's what Isee that around in this case in classrooms,
(22:32):
there's going to be a personal assistancefor every students. That's why I
see yeah, so perhaps we're goingto be coach and facilitator right as a
correct guide and decided definitely indeed,Yeah, my vision for teaching would be,
and I hope this happens, andI hope AI helps this, that
the students have got these tools tohelp them with those things, so it's
(22:52):
much easier for them to access factsand knowledge, and we can spend much
more time in the classroom and operatingon high order thinking skills, collaboration discussion,
thinking more deeply about the topics.And let's be honest about it.
If we're going to tackle some ofthe world's problems that we know in terms
of climate change and geopolitical issues,we're going to need our sudents operating at
(23:18):
that level, aren't we It's notgoing to be enough sending young people out
from education with just having learned facts. They're going to do a lot more
than that. They're going to needreal twenty first century skills to solve those
real twenty first century problems that weknow aren't going away and they're becoming critical
now. Yeah, and listen,teachers, in the future, things will
(23:41):
change, just like technology has evolvedover the years and rapidly changing momentous.
Teachers need to change oursels. WhenI say need to change, because I
don't see technology as a love.When a teacher to lose their job,
I don't see that. I thinkof a teacher can actually armorize the technology
and unser the where their work,unchange the model. If they work not
(24:03):
necessarily they're going to lose their job. But I do strongly would say that
in today's society, if a teacherfailed to embrace technology, I think we'll
move along without that person in theworld. Basically it yeah, yeah,
I think if the person who's inour classroom right now that all of these
our tools are a natural part oftheir upbringing. If you're like a twelve
(24:25):
year old right now, which isjust naturally enhanced now by all of the
tools they've got available their fingertips,and they're using them natively and naturally that's
our teacher. In ten years time, that is what our teacher will be,
because they'll be twenty two and they'llbe coming out to teach in our
classrooms and they will naturally have thosewithin their gift And how will they use
those and how fitable will they be, how fit of theirs, a motivating
(24:48):
will they be as a coach,as a facilitator, and perhaps naturally they'll
emerge like that in the way thatyou say. So it is fantastic,
definitely, but we've got to thinkabout it during that transition. How do
we get those current teachers in theclassroom to have those skills to prepare those
students to be those educators for thefuture with those skills. Definitely, and
(25:11):
so we deliver on behalf of WolverhamptonUniversity, one of the partner colleges of
their foundation degree. Sir ted,I'm sure you're familiar with that in f
fee and the profit ground for thoseof the degree, and it's not there
in the curriculum at the moment.But to be honestly, you're like any
educate. So I ensure that itis in the curriculum because I think it's
absolutely essential that the teachers are embracingit. This burning question in my mind
(25:34):
about skills mastery, and it's beenburning in my mind for a little bit
of time. We all know aboutthe ten thousand hour model, which it
says that you need ten thousand hoursof practice and continuous practice in a particular
activity to get skills mastery, andI just wonder about that and how that
applies now and the use of thetechnology. Are we genuinely going to have
(25:56):
people who get to skills mastery inany particular area of expertise because of the
use in generation and use of AItools. Well, let's create effectively a
dumbing down. I do think itprobably will in terms of skill master whether
we won't be able to master theskills that we've got now because we've got
the tool that does it for usin this case. So I do agree
(26:18):
with you to some extent. Butit's the same time is that you are
developing new skills, and those newskills that you're developing allow you to be
more creative in announcing what you're tryingto produce. Yeah, I wonder about
leap frogging our ability to gain skillsmastery. So there's that question mark of
do you really need ten thousand hoursthen, and do you only really need
(26:41):
two thousand because actually there's a wholebunch of tools that allow you to gain
skills mastery a lot faster, andI think that's go on go on.
It's critical too, because there aregoing to be skills across your teaching stuff
and the wider population that become nolonger as relevant or useful that people have
done the ten thousand hours. Thinkabout London taxi drivers, for example,
(27:02):
and their knowledge of London. AndI remember working at Oracle, and I've
been there for five years and Iunderstood all of the internal workings of Oracle
and nowhere else in the world wasthat going to be useful. So part
of me thinking, I don't wantto leave because it's taken so long to
learn all these sorts of things.So we feel that pain, don't we
That something that we've worked so hardfor is no longer going to have its
(27:23):
own relevance, important significance to us. That's not going to be easy for
a lot of people. But weI was just going to say, it's
really interesting questions you're posing. Butactually, we know we've got a problem
at the moment. We know we'renot in a utopia. We know that,
as I say, schools and collegeis a massive shortage of teachers.
(27:45):
We're not recruiting enough teachers. Soif AI can make the job more attractive
in some way, that might solvethe problem. Because it's in my fear
as a teacher educator the last fewyears that parents in ten years time are
going to be saying, who's goingto teach my children? We're going to
(28:06):
be in that ridiculous situation in thiscountry where the parents will be panicking because
they literally they won't have anyone toteach the children, or the quality of
the people teaching it won't be whatit is now. And so I think
if AI can assist in that issue, whether that's making the job more attractive,
making the job more skillful, andtherefore the job gains higher status in
(28:30):
the society, that I think itshould have. To be perfect honest with
you, I remember a famous quotefrom the West Wing where I think there's
a rob low character talked about everyschool should be like a palace with the
very best technology. This is thenext generation that we're training. Every teacher
should be earning the six figure salary. I couldn't agree with the states part
(28:51):
of the prestigiousness the salary. Itsounds fantastic, But I guess on top
of that as well, we've gotto reflect on the future of jobs.
But maybe again, this is anopportunity and maybe people can be working on
a more contractual basis or a parttime basis supported by AI. People that
wouldn't be able to do it rightnow or don't have the time to do
the training, who would be avaluable asset to the industry. Yes,
(29:12):
yes, and this is where it'sgoing to change SMEs where SEME look,
any type of company look like,oh, they recruit nowadays without looking to
see where AI is. I thinkwe've come towards the end of our conversation
with a hopeful but also one ofsafeguarding concern and a holistic approach to a
(29:34):
huge technology. It's not forget thatchat GPT has had eleven billion dollars recently
invested into its imagine just using atool that somebody spent eleven billion dollars to
build. It bobbles the mind.Gents. I feel like we could do
another hour or two, but sadlywe have to close the curtain on this
(29:55):
particular conversation. But I'm sure wecan have more. Thank you both so
much much, Adam Comrade, it'sa huge pleasure to have you on the
show. You've brought so much,so many ideas that we can take forward
in this conversation and beyond. Thankyou, guys, Thank you very much.
The opportunities, thanks very much toget that. Thank you
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