May 20, 2024 • 24 mins
Series: Artificial Intelligence, Leadership and the Future of Further Education
Hosts:
Richard Foster-Fletcher, Executive Chair, MKAI.org
Kurt Hintz, Managing Director, Fortis Education Consulting
Guest:
Andrew Green, CEO, Chichester College Group
Guest Bio:
Andrew Green, the CEO of Chichester College Group, has been a transformative figure in further education since beginning his career as a student teacher in 1996. With a focus on innovation and adaptation, Andrew has guided the group to cater to approximately 25,000 students, ensuring that educational practices evolve to meet the changing demands of the workforce and technological advancements. Under his leadership since 2021, Chichester College Group has prioritised excellence and strategic innovation.
Episode 15: "Strategic Innovation: Harnessing AI for Future-Ready Education with Andy Green"
Episode Overview:
In "Integrating AI into the Fabric of Further Education with Andrew Green," we delve into the strategic deployment of AI technologies within the Chichester College Group. This episode provides an in-depth look at how AI is not only reshaping educational methodologies but also enhancing the administrative and operational efficiencies of institutions. Join us as Andrew shares his insights and strategies for embedding AI into the core of educational practices, ensuring that both students and staff are prepared for a future where technology plays a pivotal role.
Key Topics of Discussion:
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-boundless-podcast--4077400/support.
Hosts:
Richard Foster-Fletcher, Executive Chair, MKAI.org
Kurt Hintz, Managing Director, Fortis Education Consulting
Guest:
Andrew Green, CEO, Chichester College Group
Guest Bio:
Andrew Green, the CEO of Chichester College Group, has been a transformative figure in further education since beginning his career as a student teacher in 1996. With a focus on innovation and adaptation, Andrew has guided the group to cater to approximately 25,000 students, ensuring that educational practices evolve to meet the changing demands of the workforce and technological advancements. Under his leadership since 2021, Chichester College Group has prioritised excellence and strategic innovation.
Episode 15: "Strategic Innovation: Harnessing AI for Future-Ready Education with Andy Green"
Episode Overview:
In "Integrating AI into the Fabric of Further Education with Andrew Green," we delve into the strategic deployment of AI technologies within the Chichester College Group. This episode provides an in-depth look at how AI is not only reshaping educational methodologies but also enhancing the administrative and operational efficiencies of institutions. Join us as Andrew shares his insights and strategies for embedding AI into the core of educational practices, ensuring that both students and staff are prepared for a future where technology plays a pivotal role.
Key Topics of Discussion:
- The Role of AI in Modernising Educational Environments: Exploring the transformative impact of AI applications in further education.
- Strategic Implementation of AI in College Administration: How AI streamlines operations and improves efficiency.
- Preparing Students for an AI-Integrated Job Market: Strategies to enhance student readiness for the evolving workforce.
- Ethical Considerations in AI Deployment: Balancing innovation with responsibility in the use of AI in education.
- Future Trends in AI and Education: Predictions and expectations for the next wave of AI advancements in the sector.
- AI as a Catalyst for Educational Excellence: Highlighting the benefits of AI in enhancing learning outcomes and operational efficiency.
- The Importance of Strategic Vision in AI Adoption: How foresight and planning are crucial for successful AI integration.
- Collaboration and Continuous Learning: Emphasizing the need for ongoing education and partnership within the AI landscape to foster innovation and ethical practices.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-boundless-podcast--4077400/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Further Education, artificial Intelligence and leadershipwith my usual co host Hint Solo Kurtz.
Hello, Richard, how are youvery well? Thank you for a
Friday with a bit of sunshine inthe UK. And welcome to our guest
day which is Andy Green. Andy. It's great to have you here,
Hi, Richid is great to behere. Hi Richard Hiker, thanks for
having me baby, Welcome and begreat to have you here. And you
(00:20):
tell us a bit about yourself,then what's your role in the sector.
So I am currently Chief execu ofTister College Group. So Tister College Group
is made up of seven further fecolleges. So those seven further fee colleges
are Tister College, Brinsby College whichis our Land based college, Crawley College,
Hayward's, he Worthing, Northbrook andBrighton. Met about three and a
(00:43):
half thousand staff, turnover about onehundred and eleven million, and we serve
the needs of about thirty thousand learnerseach year. There's a bunch of commercial
businesses in there as well, biginternational business, an international awarding body and
a nursery chain as well. Keepsme Busy'd be great to hear a little
bit about just some of the threethere, and the integration of technology,
what you've seen the hips, howyou've integrated and worked with your teams,
(01:04):
and I guess the association of areally large college group, and how you
then implement some of those changes thatyou need to make. Yeah, it's
interesting, isn't I think there arelots of systems and processes in colleges.
They're big beasts, and as yougrow as a group, those systems and
colleges get rolled out to the restof the group, And I think it's
about how you embrace that technology.For me, it's always been from the
(01:26):
purpose of best meeting the needs ofour customers a course, students, customers.
Some of my stuff like that,some of my stuff don't like that.
But I call them customers because theydeserve that customer experience. Whether they're
paying for it or whether they're fundedfor it, they deserve that experience.
So our embracement of technology has reallybeen about how do we best meet the
needs of our customers. How dowe best support our staff, have this
(01:47):
saying happy staff, happy customers,that's really important. How do we develop
teaching and learning through technology. Soit's never been about let's buy all these
gadgets and let's see what they cando, etceter et cetera. It has
to come from that curriculum. Thatneed has to come from that teaching and
learning need, and not the staffneed and what's best for the students.
And even to be able to havethe technology, you've got the infrastructure.
(02:07):
How have you sort of managed thereensuring the infrastructures there and significant enough in
the group over time to be ableto cater for that technology. Yeah,
the challenge of building the capacity andthe investment for that infrastructure is obviously a
challenge in any college, which issignificantly underfunded as we know. But I
think a long time ago we tookthe decision to build in house systems for
(02:30):
some of our systems and processes.So I invested in the people, the
developers to do that. And thatcomes with its own risks, obviously,
because they develop those systems and thenif they leave or whatever happens, etc.
But if you've got systems and processin place to protect that risk,
that's been useful. I think it'sbeen about using opportunities like the LSIP or
the SDF for those types of fundsto actually actually go out and say Okay,
(02:53):
let's look at what curriculum need is. So SDF one and SDF two
we bought in tons and tons ofgreen technology. If we've brought in loads
of virtual spaces and headsets and allthose sorts of things. So it's been
about looking for those funding opportunities tofund that infrastructure, but going back to
that core purpose of how does thatenhance teaching and learning. So we've built
(03:14):
a green village at Crawley College,so students can come into this immersive space
and it's a three hundred and sixtydegree space. They can go in,
they can touch the walls, theycan learn all about green technology, they
can take a ride through the mountainsin some foreign country. And then they
come next door where we've built halfa bungalow and they can see all the
technologies within that and all the technologiesof the different various bits of green tech.
(03:36):
And then they go through there andthey go into the next phase,
which is the garage which all thegreen car technologies. We've built those experiences
around those learners, and I useanother example at our farm and our land
based so the students now get tofly drones over the fields which can then
highlight exactly where the nutrition is inthe field and where the nutrition isn't,
so they can spread the nutrition onthe bits that just need it, not
(03:58):
all across there. Therefore money learninghow that helps them in money and being
more profitable as a farm exactly.And so the students are getting a real
taste for the sort of technology usedin the industries that they're planning to go
into and getting a real insight intothat. So, yeah, let's just
take you back November twenty twenty two. Check TPT burst on the scene here.
(04:19):
Yeah, this new technology. Whatdo you think? What was your
initial impression and what were your thoughtsabout how does this affect our students,
their customers, Yeah, emplawyers andour stakeholders. It's an interesting one,
is it, Because I think AIhas been around a lot longer than suddenly
in twenty twenty two when chat GBTcame out and oh AI's Arrived've actually it's
(04:41):
been around for a little while beforethat. We've invested in a system,
a massive English system called Centritech,which you've got an AI element in which
really helps our students with their assessments. You can do an assessment and there
and then it will understand what youneed to learn fundamentally underneath that. So
obviously we look to embrace it.Obviously, there are various issues around how
do we embrace it as a ization, How do we ensure that if the
students are using this are using itto the best intentions, How do we
(05:03):
stop plagiarism, how do we updateour system so that we can make sure
that there's fair and equal assessment andall those sorts of things. We've really
embraced the AI side from We've approachedit from a reducing workload. So we
looked at, okay, how canwe use AI to reduce the workload of
staff teachers, particularly because those arethe biggest issues in athlete around workload.
(05:24):
So invested in teaching matics, whichhas really helped our staff in terms of
their planning time, etc. We'reabout to invest in a chat pot which
will reduce the number of inquiries thatour admissions and customer facing staff need to
answer a daily basis, again,so reducing their workload and therefore being able
to then focus them on doing somethingelse adding value to the learner, adding
(05:45):
value to the customer experience. Yeah. Absolutely, So two of those sort
of three pillars. I think thatI often refer to that so becuademic contiguity.
You looked at that up front,Yeah, how do we deal with
Yeah, we see the pedagogy andthe workload and how you maximize the potential
and leverage of there for your staff. And then the third one for me
is how do you we mention weprepare the students for the workplace that they're
going to go into, which isusing AI tools. Yeah, so getting
(06:11):
your staff skilled up? Then whatabout that? How are you dealing with
that side of getting your people skilledup enough perhaps ensuring the curriculum is going
to be sufficient to prepare them.Yeah, So we have a number of
mechanisms to do that. So wehave annual CPD days, so three of
those we also have which have interessuis probably eight years ago back to industry
Day. So our staff have aday once a year where they go back
(06:31):
into their industry to see what's themost up to date development in their industry.
So, if you're an engineer,back into an engineering environment, see
exactly what's happening in the engineer environment. Because if you're not teaching what's current,
we're not preparing our learners for whatthey're going to go out and see
and what's going to happen, sothat staff are really valued that time be
able to go back into that industry, see exactly what's happening, see those
developments, and then come back andgo, oh, okay, we need
(06:53):
to change this, We need todo this, We need to look at
this differently, we need to embracethis bit of technology. Normally it comes
back with oh, Andrew, canyou buy me new bit of kids?
And I go how much? Yeah? They usually give you a telephone number,
don't they. Absolutely, Yeah,it's not quite them. There's always
it makes it look easier just followbefore those CPD days, Andy, how
did you find the advocates in yourorganization, the people who wanted you to
(07:16):
engage with them about AI and howthey could get more involved. Yeah,
we we have a post if youlike, called Advanced Practitioners, which then
became professional Learning coaches a few yearsago. So those are our really excellent
teachers who are really keen able andwilling to embrace new technologies on embrace new
teaching learning pedagogy, et cetera.And they are given a certain amount of
(07:39):
remission from their teaching load to beable to go out and look at these
changing in pedagogy, changing in technology, et cetera. I remember years ago
when iPads became the thing to havein the classroom, or that we'd set
up various projects where advance practitioners asthose called in those days, would then
do spotlights every week to their teachingteams, et cetera, to help the
teaching teams be upskilled in those particulartechnologies. There are lots of benefits of
(08:01):
AI there out there here of collegeswho have got rid of all their admin
staff and just using AI to takeminutes in meetings, et cetera. I'm
definitely not that camp, but Iheard that's definitely happening. So it's how
we can again focus on that workloadso that the staff have a better life
work balance. That's really important forus. We have three really three focus
ati just to colotry. One isto be financially strong, one is to
(08:22):
be outstanding, and one is tohave a fantastic place to work. So
we always test all of our decisionsagainst those sort of three key pillars.
Using comtage terms, really interesting youshould say on the well being front,
reducing workload, the well being sideany other sort of hints on wellbeing and
the use of technology to improve wellbeing overall rather than just words blow there's
(08:43):
one. Obviously, we were luckyenough to win an AOC Beacon Award for
well Being a couple of years back. We have a wellbeing strategy and we
award a wellness Day once a yearwhere we say staff, this is your
day off to go and be welland do something that makes you well.
Whether that's played on the xbox allday, whether that's going for a dog
walk, or whether it's going fora swim or to the gym, et
cetera, whatever it is, andthat's real focused on that well being and
(09:05):
that life work balance in the organization, and we're always looking at we run.
There's focus groups and staff forums tosay where can we reduce the amount
of workload, stress or whatever itmight be by changing systems and processes or
changing workflow. For me, youcan have a system, but if you
put rubbish in a system, youget rubbish out of the other system.
So it's all about process at theend of the day, It's all about
(09:26):
the human process that sits around thatsystem. I'm really keen to hear from
a point of view looking at thehow and the integration of what it's doing
and what it's able to do andwhat we've seen being used for. Do
you have a sort of top ofthe wish list of what you'd like to
see it be able to do thenext thing that it would be great to
be able to do in your collegethat would just make it be perfect if
it could do that for us.Yeah, I think for me, I've
(09:50):
been in a sect to twenty sixyears now. I know I don't love
that whole, but I have beenin the set to twenty six years and
I remember very early on as ayoung manager being told that we wouldn't have
classrooms in ten years time, andit'll be done online, or it'll all
be taught in massive IT centers withone teacher at the start, at the
beginning, in the middle, andit'll be done on it se I thought,
I don't think you're ever going toreplace that teacher student relationship, that
(10:13):
teacher group relationship, because that's whatteaching and learning is about. It's about
that relationship with the teacher and thestudent, and how we talk about our
teachers. We talk about teaching thelove of the subject because you can learn
everything on Google, to be honest, these days, can't You can.
If you want to learn knowledge,you go and look at Google. But
if you want to learn the loveof the subject, you've got to be
taught by someone that's passionate and reallycares about you learning and the subject.
(10:35):
And that's what we focus on.So I think it's got to be about
how we use AI or technologies toenhance that teacher student relationship. The teaching
mathics is an idea example, becauseactually teachers spend a lot of time preparing.
I want them to be able toif they can spend less time doing
the mechanics of preparing and more timeusing their imagination about how they're going to
create a fantastic, outstanding lesson andinspire the students, then that's what I'm
(11:00):
them to focus on, rather thanthe mechanics of having to plan or write
lesson plan or we don't do lessplans I've done for a long time,
but scheme of work, produce apower point, et cetera. There's technology
that can do that in seconds comparedto ours. Then they can focus on
the creativity and the imagination of thatlesson. Yeah, I love that and
also I suppose they're just going onfrom the omase, what's your thoughts on
the mechanics of marking in that youcould say, potentially there's some opportunities there
(11:24):
to reduce word bode, reduce therepetative actions. Perhaps Yeah, yeah,
I'm not talking about everything, butbut what's your thoughts there? Because a
couple of rules of thought there isn'tthere is if I'm going to write something,
I really want someone to read itbe marked by a computer, and
what's writing it in? So justwhat's you're thinking around that. I've looked
at one AI essay marking system andI thought, oh, my goodness,
(11:46):
that's really clever. But then whenI was looking at it and thinking,
I've still got to read that essayas a teacher, because I still need
to know what that student's written andwhy I've written it in things, and
I was so impressed with the waythat the AI learned how the teacher marked
so it could give the appropriate Ithink, actually, as you rightly say,
as a teacher, I still wantto be able to read that and
the student values that human interaction.We've got to be really careful about that
(12:07):
integrity of that assessment integrity of thatmarketing. Are there some unique opportunities or
challenges in f FE that you seeis markedly different to those of perhaps schools
or higher education facilities. Our numberone riskers for a long time in f
et cetera has been the recruitment andretention of staff, because we're paid.
I think staff paid about thirteen percentlower than in schools and much lower than
(12:28):
universities. So getting the right peoplein your organization is absolutely fundamental for success.
So I think we are, ase cetera, is facing a staff
in crisis because the retention and recruitmentof staff, the increased maths and English
requirement, and the government are puttingout we've got to teach four hours of
maths and three hours of English.There aren't the teachers out there to do
(12:50):
that. The just aren't the numberof teachers out there to fulfill that requirement
from the government, so it's totallyunrealistic unfortunately. So that's the challenge.
So talk about capacity, but actuallyit is about getting people into the sector,
not overwhelming them so they stay inthe sector and they can continue to
work and thrive and have a decentlife work balance. In saying that.
As we've talked about prim we quiteearly on, how do we choose the
(13:13):
workload? And actually a new teachercoming in, that's one of the things,
isn't it. And yeah, thiscouple of years is daunting because of
the amount of preparation and activity thatyou're doing outside them. It's not the
classroom. So I just wonder howmuch scope there is actually to completely change
that for new entrants, and whetherwe are doing enough at the entry point
and teacher training point of integrating thistechnology at that point where we probably have
(13:39):
the maximum impact on those that impactedthe most. I don't think we are
doing enoughing that those technologies in termsof that teacher training that first year,
maybe first two years is really hard, isn't it, And particularly an fee
where you're talking about vocational teachers,So you might have a construction teacher coming
off site coming into a classroom verycapable of teaching their skills, but picking
(14:01):
up all the technologies of the systemsand the PaperWorks. What is that?
What am I supposed to do withall that? So you try and protect
them the best you can and supportand mentors and buddies and all those sorts
of things, and you try andreduce theh bioxy as much as possible,
but there is bureocracy in the system. So using those technologies, using that
AI, using those systems to helpwith that would definitely be a benefit.
End then it's often the case thatyou can't retain them because the workfload is
(14:24):
just the means and that fiture.Yeah, and I think if you look
across the sector, I think wecan lose most of the staff in the
first year. If they stay twoor three years, they tend to stay
thirty years. So it is reallythat initial bit that you've got to get
right. I asked you earlier aboutadvocates. Was that were the word that
we used. What role do theyhave in your organization? To think about
(14:45):
more of the measured conversations, tacklingsome of the ethical questions, those sort
of things that arise. Because we'vemostly talked about innovation so far, but
we know there's two sides of thiscoin when it comes to AI in the
sector. Now, what if yourexperience has been with that. Yeah's had
a lot a lot of conversations aroundand that obviously it's pretty prevalent and the
introduction of GDPR et cetera. Wemade sure that we really put an effective
(15:05):
resource into the area so that theycould advised the organization, ad dies the
college, look at every single processand every single aspect to the college to
make sure that we were complying.And I think that work has gone forward
in terms of how we're embracing AIand those sorts of things, and how
we're thinking about some of those aspectsof how we keep that data safe and
how we keep the integrity of thatdata, and how we keep the I
(15:26):
think we're talk about Earler about theplagiarism and those sorts of things. We
talked about meeting the skills needs employersand what they need to have some of
those transferable skills and plovility skills rightup front. Doesn't this tick just supercharge
our ability to do that and meettheir needs by actually the turnaround time now
with the tools we have for designing, creating these programs and putting them out
(15:48):
to market is probably, as yousay it sickends rather than yeah, if
you got examples of that, isthat really? I think that there's lots
of examples of The local job centerscame to us and said, look,
we're finding a lot of our unemployedor our clients whatever they are to call
them, don't have the digital skillsthat the employers are asking for. So
can you put on a suite ofdigital skills training for these people on benefits
(16:11):
for DWP. We were absolutely turnedit around and we're delivering that to I
can't tell you how many, buta lot those short digital suite to upskill
those unemployed. So gives them thatopportunity because I think one of the things
that our employers said to us wasactually a lot of the people who are
applying for our jobs don't even getthrough the first hurdle because I don't know
if I've got five kids. Sowhen they apply for a job, you
(16:33):
have to fill out about seventy fourquestions online before you even get through to
applying to an interview. You gotto past various psychological tests and do this
is is this. If you haven'tgot the digital skills, you haven't got
a chance to get them through anyof that before you could even get to
the point of having an interview.So those digital skills applying for jobs are
really important. So we've put onthat training. Yeah, and really quickly
recidly responding because we can actually creatingthose programs now don't take weeks in more
(16:56):
anymore. Now that takes tea.The other thing we've done with the ELSIF
money through Fee Sussex and jointly acrossSussex is we are developing an app and
the employability app. So all thegraduates from all the ft Sussex colleges will
go a log into the app.The app has a suite of employability skills.
They click through completely these skills gettheir certificates. Employers can then upload
(17:18):
a job as an algorithm probably anAI algorithm and matches the skills they need
for their jobs to the candidates.They've got those jobs, so we can
have that labor going into those solocal job markets with those employers. And
I wanted to ask you the nextquestion. It's quite nicely at Shelthaecker there.
It's about adeptive learning because the nextstage isn't it As you've gone for
the interview, you didn't do sowell, you didn't get the job.
(17:41):
What about the feedback loop then thatallows you to relearn then? And then
we talked about it with Century Techand others that are saying you've done you
based on assessment. These are yourskills. Match is what you're missing.
It will now fill the get withsome training and learning. I'm not sure
we've got that yet with employers andfeedback are from interview processes and people to
fill this for their gaps if youlike. And employers, as you say,
(18:02):
forever, they see it they haven'tgot the right employability skills. We've
been training in those skills forever.So there's not anything that's probably done that
beckfilling to say he went to theinterview, you didn't get it. These
are the bits you need to topup, come back, top them up.
What's you're thinking they're any sort oftechnology you're thinking about for that,
Yeah, employers are busy, andI think ethically, Murray, I think
it's the absolutely the right things feedbackto every candidate that's not been successful.
(18:25):
But a lot of my kids willgo for jobs and they don't ever hear
back after an interview, I thinkany feedback whatsoever. So there's a bit
of learning for employers there, butthey're busy, So there's a bit of
tech that can actually enable them tofeedback that. It's just a tick sheet
for skills or whatever it might bethat would be really helpful for the learning
of those candidates, wouldn't it.I mean, you can imagine that the
(18:45):
INDEMND interview process like this electronically online. They just spend two minutes giving a
little bit verbal feedback at the video. It collects that information, turns it
into some skills match or different feedYou can imagine that's some technology absolutely minimizing.
Like you said, the time that'sneeded from the employed feedback and those
stay. I'm looking forward to thatstuff because I think that does start to
(19:06):
close a loop that we haven't beenable to close, just like you say,
because it's about time. Diffah.We had Sheila da Grave speaking to
us just recently and she observed thatsome colleges, and you're probably in that
list, by the way, arereally embracing this and we see great leadership.
And that's one of the reasons weasked you to come on the show.
Others perhaps not quite so certain inwhich directions to go. If I
(19:27):
think back to some of the avenueswe explored last time, we were thinking
about as impact on productivity, onwellness, on morale, on workloads.
Where do you start, where doyou point this at? And does that
concern you do you think about laggardsin the sector and those who aren't moving
as quickly. I think there's probablya role for abody in the sector to
(19:48):
do some strategic thinking about how thesector embraces AI, because there are always
going to be colleges with innovators inwho are keen and excited about the technology
and go, yep, that's whatI want to do, and let's take
that forward. And there'll be othercolleges that are like, I don't really
understand that. I'm a bit scaredof it and therefore ignore it and till
it comes knocking at the door.So I think it's about a sector approach
(20:11):
which needs a strategic driver from somewhere, from a body etf CIF AOC,
whatever it might be, to drivethat sector global approach to AI. How
are we going to address it,how we're going to do it, What
can we do, How can wemake sure that we have the right staff
with the right knowledge and expertise inthe sector to drive this forward. And
we're hoping that what we don't wantis to be done too, and it's
(20:34):
a bit of being done too.I think perhaps at the moment, and
certainly there's an opportunity for us totake this by the morns. I think,
isn't it Yeah, No, it'sdefinitely. I think there's always nuance
in the messaging, isn't there toget right? And we ran a Future
of Work an AI conference a coupleof days ago at Milton Keynes College and
the subject of f E teachers actuallycame up in the conversation, and I
(20:56):
talked about the conversation we've had onthis podcast where we said, first of
all, we see no threat fromAI replacing teachers, and mostly because the
reason that students will stay in collegeis the amounts of time they have with
the teacher. That's pretty much thecritical factory. But as I said that,
I thought to myself, what isit the teacher says or does in
that time, and what's the riskof AI replacing those specific areas You talked
(21:21):
about the passion of the teacher yea, And I think about the acting coaches
who tell us that acting is reactingAnd I don't want to put words in
your mouth, but I guess technologycould never care like a teacher cares.
I think that, yeah, goingback to we talk about our teachers teaching
the love of the subject, thepassion, the excitement, the experience.
I think teachers share experience, andyou can't have a saying you can't learn
(21:44):
experience. You learn experience. Sowhen I talk business, I talk about
all the experiences of what I didat house a phraser or boots or wherever
I worked in retail, and toshare those stories with my students, and
students love that. It's real term. Now you could program AI to do
that, but actually you've got toremember that teachers aren't just teachers. Teachers
are social workers, they are careers, they are safeguarding, monitors, they
are guides, they are all thosedifferent things to those young people or adults
(22:08):
or apprentices. They do so muchmore. And now that all the other
services in the community are drifting away, we end up doing all of those
services, don't be as a teacher. So that relationship that a teacher has
with a young person, that passion, that excitement, that thrill that a
young person will get by listening andbeing inspired by those teachers is really what
(22:30):
changes their lives. And if youtalk to most people, they will remember
a teacher that change their lives.And our purpose that CCG is changing last
through learning and has been for aslong as I can remember, and we
do that every single day. Wechange people's last through learning. And I've
worked with so many students over theyear with ADHD and all sorts of learning
difficulties who I've really have a somewith ADHG. So I was able to
(22:51):
tune into their needs and build aprogram that really developed their confidence and their
skills and see them be successful.Could they I do that? Who knows?
And as we come to a closeon this conversation, do you have
concerns about access and equity among yourcustomers? Among your students? A big
(23:11):
question of access is always a concern. I think we all think every child
has a smartphone. They don't.And my colleges deal with a lot of
communities who are come from very deprivededucationally and economically. Not all students have
smartphones. Not all students have accessto it at home. They might have
access to phones or laptops, butit's normally the Internet that or the speed
(23:32):
of the Internet that's the challenge.Due to economic deprivations. There isn't equality
thing. They're an equity thing therearound young people a lots and apprentices having
that fair access to that technology andfor some who can get it, they're
going to be advantaged, and thosethat can't won't be. But it sounds
like you, as a leader,think that we can overcome some of these
challenges, and it sounds to melike we will harness AI very effectively in
(23:55):
this sector, and if we achievejust part of the things that we've talked
about in this conversation, the impactwill be huge. I think, yeah,
I totally agree with you. Ithink the potential is enormous. I
think we have to be careful howwe set out our roadmap and think really
carefully and strategically about how we're usingit. And as I said before,
we've focused on workload. We focusedon really meeting the needs of our learners
(24:15):
and our customers to enhance their experienceand enhance the ability of our teachers to
use their imagination creativity to inspire thoseyoung people, adults and apprenticeships. Apprentices
Andy, thank you very much foryour time today. Thank you very much,
been a pleasure.
Further Education, artificial Intelligence and leadershipwith my usual co host Hint Solo Kurtz.
Hello, Richard, how are youvery well? Thank you for a
Friday with a bit of sunshine inthe UK. And welcome to our guest
day which is Andy Green. Andy. It's great to have you here,
Hi, Richid is great to behere. Hi Richard Hiker, thanks for
having me baby, Welcome and begreat to have you here. And you
(00:20):
tell us a bit about yourself,then what's your role in the sector.
So I am currently Chief execu ofTister College Group. So Tister College Group
is made up of seven further fecolleges. So those seven further fee colleges
are Tister College, Brinsby College whichis our Land based college, Crawley College,
Hayward's, he Worthing, Northbrook andBrighton. Met about three and a
(00:43):
half thousand staff, turnover about onehundred and eleven million, and we serve
the needs of about thirty thousand learnerseach year. There's a bunch of commercial
businesses in there as well, biginternational business, an international awarding body and
a nursery chain as well. Keepsme Busy'd be great to hear a little
bit about just some of the threethere, and the integration of technology,
what you've seen the hips, howyou've integrated and worked with your teams,
(01:04):
and I guess the association of areally large college group, and how you
then implement some of those changes thatyou need to make. Yeah, it's
interesting, isn't I think there arelots of systems and processes in colleges.
They're big beasts, and as yougrow as a group, those systems and
colleges get rolled out to the restof the group, And I think it's
about how you embrace that technology.For me, it's always been from the
(01:26):
purpose of best meeting the needs ofour customers a course, students, customers.
Some of my stuff like that,some of my stuff don't like that.
But I call them customers because theydeserve that customer experience. Whether they're
paying for it or whether they're fundedfor it, they deserve that experience.
So our embracement of technology has reallybeen about how do we best meet the
needs of our customers. How dowe best support our staff, have this
(01:47):
saying happy staff, happy customers,that's really important. How do we develop
teaching and learning through technology. Soit's never been about let's buy all these
gadgets and let's see what they cando, etceter et cetera. It has
to come from that curriculum. Thatneed has to come from that teaching and
learning need, and not the staffneed and what's best for the students.
And even to be able to havethe technology, you've got the infrastructure.
(02:07):
How have you sort of managed thereensuring the infrastructures there and significant enough in
the group over time to be ableto cater for that technology. Yeah,
the challenge of building the capacity andthe investment for that infrastructure is obviously a
challenge in any college, which issignificantly underfunded as we know. But I
think a long time ago we tookthe decision to build in house systems for
(02:30):
some of our systems and processes.So I invested in the people, the
developers to do that. And thatcomes with its own risks, obviously,
because they develop those systems and thenif they leave or whatever happens, etc.
But if you've got systems and processin place to protect that risk,
that's been useful. I think it'sbeen about using opportunities like the LSIP or
the SDF for those types of fundsto actually actually go out and say Okay,
(02:53):
let's look at what curriculum need is. So SDF one and SDF two
we bought in tons and tons ofgreen technology. If we've brought in loads
of virtual spaces and headsets and allthose sorts of things. So it's been
about looking for those funding opportunities tofund that infrastructure, but going back to
that core purpose of how does thatenhance teaching and learning. So we've built
(03:14):
a green village at Crawley College,so students can come into this immersive space
and it's a three hundred and sixtydegree space. They can go in,
they can touch the walls, theycan learn all about green technology, they
can take a ride through the mountainsin some foreign country. And then they
come next door where we've built halfa bungalow and they can see all the
technologies within that and all the technologiesof the different various bits of green tech.
(03:36):
And then they go through there andthey go into the next phase,
which is the garage which all thegreen car technologies. We've built those experiences
around those learners, and I useanother example at our farm and our land
based so the students now get tofly drones over the fields which can then
highlight exactly where the nutrition is inthe field and where the nutrition isn't,
so they can spread the nutrition onthe bits that just need it, not
(03:58):
all across there. Therefore money learninghow that helps them in money and being
more profitable as a farm exactly.And so the students are getting a real
taste for the sort of technology usedin the industries that they're planning to go
into and getting a real insight intothat. So, yeah, let's just
take you back November twenty twenty two. Check TPT burst on the scene here.
(04:19):
Yeah, this new technology. Whatdo you think? What was your
initial impression and what were your thoughtsabout how does this affect our students,
their customers, Yeah, emplawyers andour stakeholders. It's an interesting one,
is it, Because I think AIhas been around a lot longer than suddenly
in twenty twenty two when chat GBTcame out and oh AI's Arrived've actually it's
(04:41):
been around for a little while beforethat. We've invested in a system,
a massive English system called Centritech,which you've got an AI element in which
really helps our students with their assessments. You can do an assessment and there
and then it will understand what youneed to learn fundamentally underneath that. So
obviously we look to embrace it.Obviously, there are various issues around how
do we embrace it as a ization, How do we ensure that if the
students are using this are using itto the best intentions, How do we
(05:03):
stop plagiarism, how do we updateour system so that we can make sure
that there's fair and equal assessment andall those sorts of things. We've really
embraced the AI side from We've approachedit from a reducing workload. So we
looked at, okay, how canwe use AI to reduce the workload of
staff teachers, particularly because those arethe biggest issues in athlete around workload.
(05:24):
So invested in teaching matics, whichhas really helped our staff in terms of
their planning time, etc. We'reabout to invest in a chat pot which
will reduce the number of inquiries thatour admissions and customer facing staff need to
answer a daily basis, again,so reducing their workload and therefore being able
to then focus them on doing somethingelse adding value to the learner, adding
(05:45):
value to the customer experience. Yeah. Absolutely, So two of those sort
of three pillars. I think thatI often refer to that so becuademic contiguity.
You looked at that up front,Yeah, how do we deal with
Yeah, we see the pedagogy andthe workload and how you maximize the potential
and leverage of there for your staff. And then the third one for me
is how do you we mention weprepare the students for the workplace that they're
going to go into, which isusing AI tools. Yeah, so getting
(06:11):
your staff skilled up? Then whatabout that? How are you dealing with
that side of getting your people skilledup enough perhaps ensuring the curriculum is going
to be sufficient to prepare them.Yeah, So we have a number of
mechanisms to do that. So wehave annual CPD days, so three of
those we also have which have interessuis probably eight years ago back to industry
Day. So our staff have aday once a year where they go back
(06:31):
into their industry to see what's themost up to date development in their industry.
So, if you're an engineer,back into an engineering environment, see
exactly what's happening in the engineer environment. Because if you're not teaching what's current,
we're not preparing our learners for whatthey're going to go out and see
and what's going to happen, sothat staff are really valued that time be
able to go back into that industry, see exactly what's happening, see those
developments, and then come back andgo, oh, okay, we need
(06:53):
to change this, We need todo this, We need to look at
this differently, we need to embracethis bit of technology. Normally it comes
back with oh, Andrew, canyou buy me new bit of kids?
And I go how much? Yeah? They usually give you a telephone number,
don't they. Absolutely, Yeah,it's not quite them. There's always
it makes it look easier just followbefore those CPD days, Andy, how
did you find the advocates in yourorganization, the people who wanted you to
(07:16):
engage with them about AI and howthey could get more involved. Yeah,
we we have a post if youlike, called Advanced Practitioners, which then
became professional Learning coaches a few yearsago. So those are our really excellent
teachers who are really keen able andwilling to embrace new technologies on embrace new
teaching learning pedagogy, et cetera.And they are given a certain amount of
(07:39):
remission from their teaching load to beable to go out and look at these
changing in pedagogy, changing in technology, et cetera. I remember years ago
when iPads became the thing to havein the classroom, or that we'd set
up various projects where advance practitioners asthose called in those days, would then
do spotlights every week to their teachingteams, et cetera, to help the
teaching teams be upskilled in those particulartechnologies. There are lots of benefits of
(08:01):
AI there out there here of collegeswho have got rid of all their admin
staff and just using AI to takeminutes in meetings, et cetera. I'm
definitely not that camp, but Iheard that's definitely happening. So it's how
we can again focus on that workloadso that the staff have a better life
work balance. That's really important forus. We have three really three focus
ati just to colotry. One isto be financially strong, one is to
(08:22):
be outstanding, and one is tohave a fantastic place to work. So
we always test all of our decisionsagainst those sort of three key pillars.
Using comtage terms, really interesting youshould say on the well being front,
reducing workload, the well being sideany other sort of hints on wellbeing and
the use of technology to improve wellbeing overall rather than just words blow there's
(08:43):
one. Obviously, we were luckyenough to win an AOC Beacon Award for
well Being a couple of years back. We have a wellbeing strategy and we
award a wellness Day once a yearwhere we say staff, this is your
day off to go and be welland do something that makes you well.
Whether that's played on the xbox allday, whether that's going for a dog
walk, or whether it's going fora swim or to the gym, et
cetera, whatever it is, andthat's real focused on that well being and
(09:05):
that life work balance in the organization, and we're always looking at we run.
There's focus groups and staff forums tosay where can we reduce the amount
of workload, stress or whatever itmight be by changing systems and processes or
changing workflow. For me, youcan have a system, but if you
put rubbish in a system, youget rubbish out of the other system.
So it's all about process at theend of the day, It's all about
(09:26):
the human process that sits around thatsystem. I'm really keen to hear from
a point of view looking at thehow and the integration of what it's doing
and what it's able to do andwhat we've seen being used for. Do
you have a sort of top ofthe wish list of what you'd like to
see it be able to do thenext thing that it would be great to
be able to do in your collegethat would just make it be perfect if
it could do that for us.Yeah, I think for me, I've
(09:50):
been in a sect to twenty sixyears now. I know I don't love
that whole, but I have beenin the set to twenty six years and
I remember very early on as ayoung manager being told that we wouldn't have
classrooms in ten years time, andit'll be done online, or it'll all
be taught in massive IT centers withone teacher at the start, at the
beginning, in the middle, andit'll be done on it se I thought,
I don't think you're ever going toreplace that teacher student relationship, that
(10:13):
teacher group relationship, because that's whatteaching and learning is about. It's about
that relationship with the teacher and thestudent, and how we talk about our
teachers. We talk about teaching thelove of the subject because you can learn
everything on Google, to be honest, these days, can't You can.
If you want to learn knowledge,you go and look at Google. But
if you want to learn the loveof the subject, you've got to be
taught by someone that's passionate and reallycares about you learning and the subject.
(10:35):
And that's what we focus on.So I think it's got to be about
how we use AI or technologies toenhance that teacher student relationship. The teaching
mathics is an idea example, becauseactually teachers spend a lot of time preparing.
I want them to be able toif they can spend less time doing
the mechanics of preparing and more timeusing their imagination about how they're going to
create a fantastic, outstanding lesson andinspire the students, then that's what I'm
(11:00):
them to focus on, rather thanthe mechanics of having to plan or write
lesson plan or we don't do lessplans I've done for a long time,
but scheme of work, produce apower point, et cetera. There's technology
that can do that in seconds comparedto ours. Then they can focus on
the creativity and the imagination of thatlesson. Yeah, I love that and
also I suppose they're just going onfrom the omase, what's your thoughts on
the mechanics of marking in that youcould say, potentially there's some opportunities there
(11:24):
to reduce word bode, reduce therepetative actions. Perhaps Yeah, yeah,
I'm not talking about everything, butbut what's your thoughts there? Because a
couple of rules of thought there isn'tthere is if I'm going to write something,
I really want someone to read itbe marked by a computer, and
what's writing it in? So justwhat's you're thinking around that. I've looked
at one AI essay marking system andI thought, oh, my goodness,
(11:46):
that's really clever. But then whenI was looking at it and thinking,
I've still got to read that essayas a teacher, because I still need
to know what that student's written andwhy I've written it in things, and
I was so impressed with the waythat the AI learned how the teacher marked
so it could give the appropriate Ithink, actually, as you rightly say,
as a teacher, I still wantto be able to read that and
the student values that human interaction.We've got to be really careful about that
(12:07):
integrity of that assessment integrity of thatmarketing. Are there some unique opportunities or
challenges in f FE that you seeis markedly different to those of perhaps schools
or higher education facilities. Our numberone riskers for a long time in f
et cetera has been the recruitment andretention of staff, because we're paid.
I think staff paid about thirteen percentlower than in schools and much lower than
(12:28):
universities. So getting the right peoplein your organization is absolutely fundamental for success.
So I think we are, ase cetera, is facing a staff
in crisis because the retention and recruitmentof staff, the increased maths and English
requirement, and the government are puttingout we've got to teach four hours of
maths and three hours of English.There aren't the teachers out there to do
(12:50):
that. The just aren't the numberof teachers out there to fulfill that requirement
from the government, so it's totallyunrealistic unfortunately. So that's the challenge.
So talk about capacity, but actuallyit is about getting people into the sector,
not overwhelming them so they stay inthe sector and they can continue to
work and thrive and have a decentlife work balance. In saying that.
As we've talked about prim we quiteearly on, how do we choose the
(13:13):
workload? And actually a new teachercoming in, that's one of the things,
isn't it. And yeah, thiscouple of years is daunting because of
the amount of preparation and activity thatyou're doing outside them. It's not the
classroom. So I just wonder howmuch scope there is actually to completely change
that for new entrants, and whetherwe are doing enough at the entry point
and teacher training point of integrating thistechnology at that point where we probably have
(13:39):
the maximum impact on those that impactedthe most. I don't think we are
doing enoughing that those technologies in termsof that teacher training that first year,
maybe first two years is really hard, isn't it, And particularly an fee
where you're talking about vocational teachers,So you might have a construction teacher coming
off site coming into a classroom verycapable of teaching their skills, but picking
(14:01):
up all the technologies of the systemsand the PaperWorks. What is that?
What am I supposed to do withall that? So you try and protect
them the best you can and supportand mentors and buddies and all those sorts
of things, and you try andreduce theh bioxy as much as possible,
but there is bureocracy in the system. So using those technologies, using that
AI, using those systems to helpwith that would definitely be a benefit.
End then it's often the case thatyou can't retain them because the workfload is
(14:24):
just the means and that fiture.Yeah, and I think if you look
across the sector, I think wecan lose most of the staff in the
first year. If they stay twoor three years, they tend to stay
thirty years. So it is reallythat initial bit that you've got to get
right. I asked you earlier aboutadvocates. Was that were the word that
we used. What role do theyhave in your organization? To think about
(14:45):
more of the measured conversations, tacklingsome of the ethical questions, those sort
of things that arise. Because we'vemostly talked about innovation so far, but
we know there's two sides of thiscoin when it comes to AI in the
sector. Now, what if yourexperience has been with that. Yeah's had
a lot a lot of conversations aroundand that obviously it's pretty prevalent and the
introduction of GDPR et cetera. Wemade sure that we really put an effective
(15:05):
resource into the area so that theycould advised the organization, ad dies the
college, look at every single processand every single aspect to the college to
make sure that we were complying.And I think that work has gone forward
in terms of how we're embracing AIand those sorts of things, and how
we're thinking about some of those aspectsof how we keep that data safe and
how we keep the integrity of thatdata, and how we keep the I
(15:26):
think we're talk about Earler about theplagiarism and those sorts of things. We
talked about meeting the skills needs employersand what they need to have some of
those transferable skills and plovility skills rightup front. Doesn't this tick just supercharge
our ability to do that and meettheir needs by actually the turnaround time now
with the tools we have for designing, creating these programs and putting them out
(15:48):
to market is probably, as yousay it sickends rather than yeah, if
you got examples of that, isthat really? I think that there's lots
of examples of The local job centerscame to us and said, look,
we're finding a lot of our unemployedor our clients whatever they are to call
them, don't have the digital skillsthat the employers are asking for. So
can you put on a suite ofdigital skills training for these people on benefits
(16:11):
for DWP. We were absolutely turnedit around and we're delivering that to I
can't tell you how many, buta lot those short digital suite to upskill
those unemployed. So gives them thatopportunity because I think one of the things
that our employers said to us wasactually a lot of the people who are
applying for our jobs don't even getthrough the first hurdle because I don't know
if I've got five kids. Sowhen they apply for a job, you
(16:33):
have to fill out about seventy fourquestions online before you even get through to
applying to an interview. You gotto past various psychological tests and do this
is is this. If you haven'tgot the digital skills, you haven't got
a chance to get them through anyof that before you could even get to
the point of having an interview.So those digital skills applying for jobs are
really important. So we've put onthat training. Yeah, and really quickly
recidly responding because we can actually creatingthose programs now don't take weeks in more
(16:56):
anymore. Now that takes tea.The other thing we've done with the ELSIF
money through Fee Sussex and jointly acrossSussex is we are developing an app and
the employability app. So all thegraduates from all the ft Sussex colleges will
go a log into the app.The app has a suite of employability skills.
They click through completely these skills gettheir certificates. Employers can then upload
(17:18):
a job as an algorithm probably anAI algorithm and matches the skills they need
for their jobs to the candidates.They've got those jobs, so we can
have that labor going into those solocal job markets with those employers. And
I wanted to ask you the nextquestion. It's quite nicely at Shelthaecker there.
It's about adeptive learning because the nextstage isn't it As you've gone for
the interview, you didn't do sowell, you didn't get the job.
(17:41):
What about the feedback loop then thatallows you to relearn then? And then
we talked about it with Century Techand others that are saying you've done you
based on assessment. These are yourskills. Match is what you're missing.
It will now fill the get withsome training and learning. I'm not sure
we've got that yet with employers andfeedback are from interview processes and people to
fill this for their gaps if youlike. And employers, as you say,
(18:02):
forever, they see it they haven'tgot the right employability skills. We've
been training in those skills forever.So there's not anything that's probably done that
beckfilling to say he went to theinterview, you didn't get it. These
are the bits you need to topup, come back, top them up.
What's you're thinking they're any sort oftechnology you're thinking about for that,
Yeah, employers are busy, andI think ethically, Murray, I think
it's the absolutely the right things feedbackto every candidate that's not been successful.
(18:25):
But a lot of my kids willgo for jobs and they don't ever hear
back after an interview, I thinkany feedback whatsoever. So there's a bit
of learning for employers there, butthey're busy, So there's a bit of
tech that can actually enable them tofeedback that. It's just a tick sheet
for skills or whatever it might bethat would be really helpful for the learning
of those candidates, wouldn't it.I mean, you can imagine that the
(18:45):
INDEMND interview process like this electronically online. They just spend two minutes giving a
little bit verbal feedback at the video. It collects that information, turns it
into some skills match or different feedYou can imagine that's some technology absolutely minimizing.
Like you said, the time that'sneeded from the employed feedback and those
stay. I'm looking forward to thatstuff because I think that does start to
(19:06):
close a loop that we haven't beenable to close, just like you say,
because it's about time. Diffah.We had Sheila da Grave speaking to
us just recently and she observed thatsome colleges, and you're probably in that
list, by the way, arereally embracing this and we see great leadership.
And that's one of the reasons weasked you to come on the show.
Others perhaps not quite so certain inwhich directions to go. If I
(19:27):
think back to some of the avenueswe explored last time, we were thinking
about as impact on productivity, onwellness, on morale, on workloads.
Where do you start, where doyou point this at? And does that
concern you do you think about laggardsin the sector and those who aren't moving
as quickly. I think there's probablya role for abody in the sector to
(19:48):
do some strategic thinking about how thesector embraces AI, because there are always
going to be colleges with innovators inwho are keen and excited about the technology
and go, yep, that's whatI want to do, and let's take
that forward. And there'll be othercolleges that are like, I don't really
understand that. I'm a bit scaredof it and therefore ignore it and till
it comes knocking at the door.So I think it's about a sector approach
(20:11):
which needs a strategic driver from somewhere, from a body etf CIF AOC,
whatever it might be, to drivethat sector global approach to AI. How
are we going to address it,how we're going to do it, What
can we do, How can wemake sure that we have the right staff
with the right knowledge and expertise inthe sector to drive this forward. And
we're hoping that what we don't wantis to be done too, and it's
(20:34):
a bit of being done too.I think perhaps at the moment, and
certainly there's an opportunity for us totake this by the morns. I think,
isn't it Yeah, No, it'sdefinitely. I think there's always nuance
in the messaging, isn't there toget right? And we ran a Future
of Work an AI conference a coupleof days ago at Milton Keynes College and
the subject of f E teachers actuallycame up in the conversation, and I
(20:56):
talked about the conversation we've had onthis podcast where we said, first of
all, we see no threat fromAI replacing teachers, and mostly because the
reason that students will stay in collegeis the amounts of time they have with
the teacher. That's pretty much thecritical factory. But as I said that,
I thought to myself, what isit the teacher says or does in
that time, and what's the riskof AI replacing those specific areas You talked
(21:21):
about the passion of the teacher yea, And I think about the acting coaches
who tell us that acting is reactingAnd I don't want to put words in
your mouth, but I guess technologycould never care like a teacher cares.
I think that, yeah, goingback to we talk about our teachers teaching
the love of the subject, thepassion, the excitement, the experience.
I think teachers share experience, andyou can't have a saying you can't learn
(21:44):
experience. You learn experience. Sowhen I talk business, I talk about
all the experiences of what I didat house a phraser or boots or wherever
I worked in retail, and toshare those stories with my students, and
students love that. It's real term. Now you could program AI to do
that, but actually you've got toremember that teachers aren't just teachers. Teachers
are social workers, they are careers, they are safeguarding, monitors, they
are guides, they are all thosedifferent things to those young people or adults
(22:08):
or apprentices. They do so muchmore. And now that all the other
services in the community are drifting away, we end up doing all of those
services, don't be as a teacher. So that relationship that a teacher has
with a young person, that passion, that excitement, that thrill that a
young person will get by listening andbeing inspired by those teachers is really what
(22:30):
changes their lives. And if youtalk to most people, they will remember
a teacher that change their lives.And our purpose that CCG is changing last
through learning and has been for aslong as I can remember, and we
do that every single day. Wechange people's last through learning. And I've
worked with so many students over theyear with ADHD and all sorts of learning
difficulties who I've really have a somewith ADHG. So I was able to
(22:51):
tune into their needs and build aprogram that really developed their confidence and their
skills and see them be successful.Could they I do that? Who knows?
And as we come to a closeon this conversation, do you have
concerns about access and equity among yourcustomers? Among your students? A big
(23:11):
question of access is always a concern. I think we all think every child
has a smartphone. They don't.And my colleges deal with a lot of
communities who are come from very deprivededucationally and economically. Not all students have
smartphones. Not all students have accessto it at home. They might have
access to phones or laptops, butit's normally the Internet that or the speed
(23:32):
of the Internet that's the challenge.Due to economic deprivations. There isn't equality
thing. They're an equity thing therearound young people a lots and apprentices having
that fair access to that technology andfor some who can get it, they're
going to be advantaged, and thosethat can't won't be. But it sounds
like you, as a leader,think that we can overcome some of these
challenges, and it sounds to melike we will harness AI very effectively in
(23:55):
this sector, and if we achievejust part of the things that we've talked
about in this conversation, the impactwill be huge. I think, yeah,
I totally agree with you. Ithink the potential is enormous. I
think we have to be careful howwe set out our roadmap and think really
carefully and strategically about how we're usingit. And as I said before,
we've focused on workload. We focusedon really meeting the needs of our learners
(24:15):
and our customers to enhance their experienceand enhance the ability of our teachers to
use their imagination creativity to inspire thoseyoung people, adults and apprenticeships. Apprentices
Andy, thank you very much foryour time today. Thank you very much,
been a pleasure.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
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Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.