Music Industry Raises the Rent: ASCAP and BMI Hike Radio Royalties

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Podcasting since two thousand and five. This is the King
of Podcasts Radio Network, King of Podcasts.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Dot com Radio might as well be playing that Gwyn
Guthrie song Nothing going on but the Rent.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
The King of Podcasts Radio Network proudly presents to the
broadcasters podcast Here is the King of Podcasts.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
BMI and ASCAFT.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
The performance royalty rights organizations have decided to get their
royalty hikes up on radio stations and deservely so, and
some of them are quite significant.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
We're gonna talk about that here on the program.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Tonight, among other things with radio and music in general,
because there's a lot of reasons why now for this program.
This is episode three and ninety nine. I have no
idea what to do for four hundred. Next week I'll
think of something, But yes, we're getting to that milestone already,
and soon enough it will be what I'll be completing

(01:04):
eight years of this program. Been pretty good so far,
and of course, been doing extra interviews here and there,
which I hope all of you have enjoyed. Some of
those that have been putting out there pretty consistently. I've
had some fun with that, and I hope to go
and continue that pretty soon. In the coming weeks and months,
especially when we get towards the end of the year,
I'll probably want to go ahead and start schedding a

(01:26):
few more interviews that I get, much like I did
with Joe Partavila or Carell or Michael Harrison, among others.
I'll keep my air to Grindstone and let you know
if there's anything like that coming up. In the meantime,
let's go and get into what's happening with the radio
industry and royalty rates. Now, this is different than what

(01:48):
we would normally talk about when it comes to some
of the bills have been put out through Congress about
trying to raise royalty rates, which is the two exs
that are the local radio freedom. Of course, we know
that from what has been talked about from radio that's
that's their hope to hitch a wagon on royalties and

(02:15):
make sure that the NAB gets what they wants. But meanwhile,
we have the Music First Coalition that wants to go
and support the American Music Faireness Act. There we go,
So let's get into what actually happened this week. The
announcement is after three years of negotiations the Radio Music

(02:36):
License Committee, the RmlC, which handles the governing of the
both of the performance royalty organizations that are existing today,
which is BMI and ASCAP. They now have a new
licensing agreement. We were talking about this late last year
and now we're all set coming up for twenty twenty six.
The deals will not only cover the current license term
but also the next, so all stations which have more

(03:01):
cost certainty will help both sides and avoid another long
and expensive legal fight for the upcoming term. There are
normally four year agreements, so the new BMI agreement is
retroacted to January first, twenty twenty two, and will be
in placed through December twenty twenty nine. Let me give

(03:22):
a tea from Billboard addaga and pull them up. Get
around the paywall to get to that as well. First
of all, BMI and the Music Radio Music License Committee,
they now have it where licensed agreeds will be paid
by nearly nine thousand radio stations to songwriters and publishers,
a historic rate increase, according to the court filings. Billboard
reports the new deal will see rates paid by radio

(03:43):
stations jump from one point seventy eight percent of revenue
on the older agreement to two point one four percent.
Then it we'll increase the two point two percent by
the end of the term retroact to the twenty twenty
two of January and run through January of twenty twenty nine.
To ask for only a two percent up to a
two percent rate increase, it's historic. But as we know,

(04:08):
this is where we have to realize that radio has
to be hit from other ends for royalties for it
to really number one. Force themselves to be relevant, because
if they're going to be so much of importance to
the music industry, to songwriters and publishers, that the missing

(04:31):
revenue that these musicians these artists are having right now,
where they can't make any money on physical units in
the current day, streaming doesn't do enough.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
It's like the analogy I talk about now on my
rescue is real podcasts, Okay, where WWE has billion dollars
in broadcast deals, over a billion dollars, but yet there
are as a focus they have sometimes on how they
are trying to and monetize on the audience that is
on social media streaming their video content, and they're only

(05:06):
gonna make thousands of dollars on advertising from that end. Meanwhile,
they're not prioritizing the long form content to the rest
of the world, to the broadcast partners. That's a constant
argumentment on that program. The same thing goes here is
that it shouldn't be a matter that streaming is a

(05:27):
bigger audience, but radio still exists like it was with
physical units. You get what you put into it. And
that's the biggest problem that music has right now. Music
doesn't want to invest the major regular labels do not
want to invest the new stars. But their reasons are

(05:48):
is because of course they go through artists repertoire. They
used to have that whole setup and you would go
ahead and build an artists overnight. You would take time
to go and build an artists. That kind of practice
only happens with KPE. Okay, you want to see examples
right now, Just look good Black Pink, Just look at
Cat's Eye for example. They're actually trying to assemble manufacture

(06:10):
acts that have talent, and they're trying to go and
build them up to become stars. And right now, you
know both of those groups like Twice, like New Genes
and others, they're trying to go and build them up
to have a following and then on top of that
start becoming a hit making machine with new music coming out.

(06:30):
And the current case right now, radio doesn want to
go ahead and help assist in these acts to build
them up because there it's instant pop music, it's hits,
and they don't want to try to get into that,
which is a mistake. For whatever reason, there's some kind
of you know, animosity towards it. I don't even know why.
But if the music industry, if the record labels would

(06:52):
actually start paying attention to radio and create radio to
be a haven for these musical acts to be exclusively
found there, there's something to be said about new music
discovery right now on TikTok and all that's being done
for that new music discovery. Some of the acts are
helping themselves with challenges and things like that, or they're

(07:14):
just on there themselves being noticed. But again in such
a short form, where's the longer form, the longer context
for some of these acts to be seen and noticed
without all the extra things they do. Okay, because like
if you have magazines that are putting out videos of artists,
they always have to have them doing something. It's some
kind of creative you know mind kind of deal where

(07:39):
they had to have some visual esthetic going on with
the artists trying to talk. It's like a game show
or it's like a reality show. And how about we
just have somebody in radio with the know how play
the music and get to know the artists and start
asking questions and starting to know these people who they
are and what they're all about, and get them to

(08:00):
be a little bit candid, a little bit personal and
bring something or at least like what the British radio
stations or you're being radio stations will do that we
get to find what's so likable about these folks. Like
that's the other thing we want dimensions is with these stars.
Imagine if we didn't have to go and just rely
on social media to go and get to find out
that these artists have more of a personality. Because the

(08:24):
algorithms on these social media platforms, they must stick to
a certain narrative. They can't just go ahead and change
from one thing to the other. Like if you're doing
a cooking thing, then you got to be that like
for you to go in and say okay for like
a good looking girl to do cooking videos and all
of a sudden she wants to do get Ready with
me or do some of the video. You see that
the algorithm doesn't favor that. So social media plays to

(08:48):
keep people kind of hyper focused on one thing. They
have to stay micro topiced. They can only stick to
a certain topic on anything, and that's what sucks.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
That's where radio gives you the long form.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's like what podcasting does, but podcasting that really focus
on music not as much. And if they do, it's
always the artists that are like, you know, they've been
around for before and they're good stories, but like it's
not gonna hold up, Like we want to find out
the new people out there. They have to be some
people out there that have some personality. And I'm telling
you it used to be where if I would listen

(09:25):
to an artist on BBC Radio one or two and
you put them on the Morning show or even a
Capital Breakfast in the UK, you get a different feel
because they have fun on these shows. They're still not
the mad cap kind of thing, but they're just naturally
funny and you get to have some fun with these artists.
They don't do that over here. Ryan Seacrest has like

(09:45):
these emotional Kumbaya kind of things. Like a Drew Barrymore
type interview. When I've heard those, they're stupid, they don't
know any good and you don't want to feel like
you're getting railroaded. I mean, you know, just ask Tyler
going on the Breakfast Club and that still people have
not let that go either. Let's just make that point clear.

(10:06):
But you have to see music reinvest into radio. Okay,
just because you don't have the physical units what you
do have, and because the music labels are trying to
get those something more involved in the entire process. For
an artist, they want to get embedded into the concerts
and the merch of course they do well, where else

(10:27):
do you promote it?

Speaker 3 (10:28):
But radio?

Speaker 2 (10:30):
The thing is, then you make the radio content like
you would do a podcast, have it go around the country,
and then you would put it on podcasting into a
podcast format, or you put it on social media's clips,
and you have that visual in the radio studio. Get
in that feel. And how about the part where you
have certain artists that you want to hear them seeing
a cappella or play something really simple that's acoustic. Yeah,

(10:56):
don't tell me that people don't want that. Some of
the biggest artists in the world world all got their
run through radio, going to whatever city they were and
getting an interview on the morning show, of the afternoon show,
whatever it was. Now part of it is, too, is
that radio has to actually get themselves involved and start
bringing in talent that can actually handle these interviews, or
the music industry starts planting in people to these radio

(11:19):
stations that will play ball with music. And guess what,
then you do a deal where you make it where
the music industry is helping these talented radio interviewers, these DJs.
You give them a kickback on what they're doing on
the concerts or whatever they're doing. Make it something that's
not pay all driven, or if it is pay a driven,
who gives a shit. But go back to that, because

(11:44):
even though there's a historic rate increase right now the
BMI and ASCAP are asking for they have to do it,
but it's the amount that they're asking for now. BMI
is getting one point seven eight to two point one
four up to two point two percent, ASKAPS getting more
than that. So BMI, first of all, women will go

(12:06):
to ASCAP. The new redeal will apply to ninety five
radio stations according to CORE filings, including those that are
directly represented by the RmlC or others that have been
ready to be bound by blanket licensed negotiations. Now we

(12:27):
might remember that some of the things that are being
done right now were both of the two biggest performance
rights organizations, the pros that collect performance royalties. They are
in a combined effort that was a new type that
it came from the Music Modernization Act of twenty eighteen
and sweeping on the goal reforms, where in effect those

(12:49):
organizations would have pitted the two against each other, forcing
them to argue over market share and thus what percentage
of radio advertising should be paid. BMI an Askeap both
strongly addicted to move and then the buying case was
redicted in twenty twenty three by a federal judge. But
eventually they would get to a point where it would
all be settled. Now be and min askept were doing
it in separate ways, but they both came to the

(13:10):
negotiation table because it was time for them for ASKCAP,
different story for them. Shortly after B and I had
inked their historic settlement with radio stations, ASKCAP would do
the same. They settled their own issues with the radio

(13:35):
group and were able to say that they also secured
substantially higher rates for songwriters and publishers. Now ASCAP's previous
licensing rate was one point seventy three percent of net revenue,
but there, according to Billboard, didn't know what the higher

(13:55):
rate was going to be. Well, looks like we have
an indication of what that's.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Going to be now.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
But the deal includes year over year increases and the
blanket license rate paid by nearly ten thousand radio stations.
But let's go into actually what is the deal that's
going to be made and what they are going to
be paying when it's all said and done. According to
Music Business Worldwide, they're reporting that the BI royalty rate

(14:24):
from US Trustrial Radio is rising by the year twenty
four percent. So the previous agreement between BMI and radio
stations set a blanket rate of one point seven eight
but now there will be a twenty three point six
percent increase and the rate radio stations paid for playing

(14:46):
BMI represented music on the air, and eighty five percent
of that money will go into songwriters and music publishers
owning the publishing rights.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
So it's a bigger thing for it.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Now there are discounts for digital revenue made by radio
stations in the growth revenue thirty percent discount for revenue
for display ads and sponsorships on the stations websites and apps,
and at twenty five percent discount for revenue made from
stations and streaming services. In the US, radio stations paid
royalties on songwrits, but on rights to music recordings, meaning
artists and labels aren't paid for terrestrial radio broadcasts of

(15:15):
their music, and they should be, which is why Congress
needs is so interviewed. There are still two acts they
have up there they can go ahead and do right
now and vote on that have been presented earlier this year,
but they have not moved forward because right now songwriters
getting paid the current day is the DSPs, which are

(15:38):
the Spotify's, Apple Music's pandoras. They make forty five percent
of their money from the song for through those platforms,
to make six percent from TV or cable which is
probably MTV, and there's the other ancilly channels that are
out there, or or even the TV cable channels like
sting Ray or Music Choice things like that, general licensing
are live, and then eight percent comes from radio and

(15:58):
radio should be a bigger cut. There should be a
reason why they go after more from radio because of
the ability. But music needs to invest I said this
to Michael Harrison, and I don't know why they don't
do that, but they could, and it would be better
off if they did. Now, I'm gonna go and play

(16:21):
back from my interview with Michael Harrison a Talker's magazine
where I specifically talked about the issue with music and
radio working together, and we'll also go back to where
Michael actually commented about it. Let's go back to the interview.
I see sunrise in the uplands if this possible, because
I think there's a couple of things that radio can
withstand number one, I don't think AI can be a

(16:41):
factor with radio. I don't think it can. I don't
think you could replicate trying to go and say, okay,
let's brings back some Let's go and get Paul Harvey's voice.
We're gonna clone him and put back rest of the
story or Casey Case's American talk.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
We're not gonna go back to that again.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
And yes, you're right about you know where there's certain
things that are not gonna go back the way it were.
I still think that if record labels were smart. They
don't want to go ahead and deal with the small
amount of money they're getting from streaming services, even though
they might be invested in a Spotify, they might have,
you know, a couple of points in the game either,
which way, I think if music, if music radio, if

(17:14):
music labels would work with radio stations again, go back
to working with each other. Because if you can promote
an artist their concerts, promote if they actually have other
merchandise or vinyl or just something else that's a physical copy,
get back to somebody that will create a physical copy
of widget, whatever it might be that doesn't have to
be bought online.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
You can go back to that.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
And I still feel like it's true today. And the
case of BMI in ass Cap right now and the
fact that they're only going to be able to make
so much from this tells you everything. And that's the
issue I have right now with everything with radio where
they're not making enough. But one of the things that

(17:55):
BMI and ass Cap has to be considerate of, and
it's unfortunate because he hasn't figured out And you know,
I talked about the interview that Bob Pittman had on
Rick Rubin's podcast a few weeks back where the advertising
issues right now. The agencies, according to Bob Pittman, they

(18:15):
want to go ahead and get the metrics. They want
to be able to go where they can go online
and get metrics for their ads and the kind of
adspen they can put on there. They don't want to
go and just do the trust of the radio, even
though radio might have a larger reach. SMP Global estimates
of traditional radio stations in the US made eleven point
two million dollars in AD revenue in twenty twenty four.

(18:38):
Eleven point two billion in AD revenue last year out
of almost nine thousand stations. We're maybe be ten thousand.
It's not a lot for that combined, it's not a lot.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
Trushure.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Radio revenues are still shrinking as AD dollars shift to digital,
and twenty twenty four revenue was down three point seven
percent of the previous year, and forecasts that their AD
revenues are gonna probably shrink to about ten billion dollars
by twenty twenty nine. But nevertheless, b and I an

(19:11):
Askeap have to do the right thing for themselves. They
have to increase the rates on radio stations. They should
be making their money.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
For their artists. I mean that should be done.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
But that's where I said the music industry could help
prop up radio and radio would benefit and radio would
be able to give back. I honestly believe in music
labels and radio stations doing some reciprocity with each other,
working with each other together in a united front to

(19:43):
get exposure, transparency back to music. We don't have live
performances anywhere. What the Tiny Desk concert on the NPR.
That's not enough. We don't have any live performances for anybody.
The award shows we're losing. Those two awards show Train
Awards be and t Awards are gone eliminated right now.

(20:05):
The VMA's actually for Paramount and sky Dance's efforts. They're
gonna put it on CBS this year. It's someo cast everywhere,
and MTV is doing something where they're gonna have the
lead up in the first week of September leading up
to September seventh, so they can go ahead and promote
MTV like a music video channel like it was was to.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
Promote the VMAs. What a great idea.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
It doesn't there's no not much of a cost factor
for them it's wall and I imagine there will be
people that will be watching MTV finally for the first
time in years, realizing, hey, there's no ridiculousness. Look they're
playing videos, and the groundswell of support, at least from
an older audience, they're gonna love it. We're gonna talk
about I want my MTV again. And I would imagine

(20:50):
that should be a hashtag because when MTV starts playing
music videos again, we should go back to saying, hey,
let's get back to MTV being MPT again.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
It's time.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
They don't have that much reality content in the first place,
and if they do, they don't have to go and
run it. They have other channels for all that content,
So let's go. That'll be a great move.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Now.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
There are also new performance rights organizations that are also
operating in the United States, irving aasas Global Music Rights,
and that's according to whatever inside radio. They have their
own deal with radio stations that also influence to be
an ideal. So there's those that are coming in here
to try to make more money off of what they need,

(21:34):
and it has to be done. There's just no choice
to that. What's interesting now is this new introm agreement
is that stations now have to pay for royalties going
back three years from the end of the last contract
December thirty first, twenty twenty one, because this was all
being settled in court. So now stations are going to
be paying sublimental amounts owed for twenty twenty three and

(21:57):
twenty twenty four based on the new rate. But DMI,
of course it's like, oh, this is like the debt.
You know, they're gonna extend the payments out. So BMI
is allowed to allow agree to allow these retroactive payments
to be spread across eighteen installments beginning in October. So
it's like radio needs a little bit of help. They
need a little bit of performance rights assistance. What can

(22:18):
I say? Now, on top of this, the RmlC they're
gonna start charging. They're gonna be charging as well. The
Radio Musical License Committee. They're also gonna be charging the
radio stations of fee, another fee on top of everything
else that will start in twenty twenty five. They're gonna
assess stations ranging from twenty eight dollars forty cents per

(22:41):
year for the small licensees to one thousand and eighty
dollars for stations paying BMI twenty thousand dollars more or annually.
As for some of these radio stations no matter what size,
that right there is a significant amount of revenue for
them and they have to go and give that up. Yes,
of course they're kicked back for helping out BMI and

(23:01):
ASCAP setting the deals for with radio in in the
first place. Going back in June, there was an op
ed that talked about the fact that AM Radio must
pay artists fair share. AM and all US broadcast radio
place music without paying the performing artists, and they kept
he was actually talking about the fact that of there

(23:24):
should be more done for artists to pay, and AM
doesn't pay at all. So the American Music Fairness Act
we've talked about, which would be on top of the
performance rights organizations and what they're charging right now for royalties. Remember,

(23:44):
the artists don't get paid. It's songwriters and publishers. The
artists should be benefiting right now, and they should be
lobbying for this now. The older acts are doing that,
the newer actually not any part of this, but music
the music industry needs to go and start paying attention
to this. They actually needed to start putting their lobbying
power into that music needs to start making some investment.

(24:07):
We already talked about the radio stations. They also need
to go ahead and do some lobbing in Congress in
Capitol Hill to get this act in place. The music
versus relation might be part of it. I don't know
how much the record labels are probably investing into that,
but they need to continue to do that if they are.
The American Music Fairness Act would finally require radio stations

(24:28):
to pay performance royalties to artists, and streaming services already
pay artists, so let's make it uniform across all platforms.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Now.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Chris Castle is the one that wrote this off at
He says that for decades, US AND and NFM radio
stations have broadcast music recordings without paying performers a dime.
In the US streaming services satellite radio, and by the way,
remember the music labels also have a piece of the
action on with Spotify, Apple, Pandora and all the other

(25:01):
music streamings the significant music streamers are involved in because
then they gave them the rain to go ahead and
be able to put all their songs under their catalog
into those platforms, and they did that early on the
kind of save face because when they sort of three
realizing they were losing their ass on not being able

(25:23):
to get any kind of recorded content sold, whether it's
digital or sales, they had to go do something. So
radio's free ride. American radio stations generate only eleven million dollars,
like I said, So that's the part that Chris has
to realize they're not making that much money, which is
why everybody's kind of giving the taking the low ball

(25:44):
effort and not trying to charge much more So, when
you hear a song on AIRFM radio, the singer, the drummer,
the producer receives zero compensation. Only the songwriter gets paid,
which is as it should be, but it's not enough.
Big radio doesn't pay for music, not necessarily For that
songwriters and publishers, yes, well should happen. It's radio the

(26:07):
needs to come up with inditional cast for artists, not
expect artists and songwriters to divide up what the songwriter gets.
But this is where the music labels have to intervene.
Music radio needs the music labels to play ball with them,
advertise with them their artists, provide their artists for interviews
and when the artist is coming into a neighboring town

(26:29):
or city where they can be featured on the radio station.
You get the kickback. Okay, radio stations should help you
sell tickets for concerts. They should help you promote your
artists to make sure that people will go ahead and
buy tickets for the show when they get there and
buy the merch and be involved. And the radio station

(26:51):
should also be playing that artists records all the time.
Only the US is alone of this policy because there
are other places that have Other countries have to ensure
the artists are getting composated for the recordings on the radio,
which is why artists that go to the UK, or
they go to the Netherlands, they go to wherever else

(27:12):
they know when they're getting onto radio stations they're probably
getting paid for the music being played along with the
songwriters and publishers, because there are deals for that out
there across the board. And as I said, I've supported
the American Music Heard in this Act because it would
create a public performance right for sound recordings on trustal radio,

(27:32):
just like the one that already exists for digital platforms,
and it would be also scaled on the size of
the radio stations, so the same idea. As the r
MLC already charging and assessing a regular annual fee, the
same thing will be done here for the artists, for
the people that we actually want to see get paid.

(27:58):
Imagine if the music artists didn't have to just rely
on social media.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
You know, we talked about a couple of.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Years ago where the likes of Halls here other artists
that they can't get themselves out there to get noticed
when they're gonna go out on tour or they have
a new album out, they don't have any way to
just make sure they can get a single played or
get the album done unless they get a song to
go viral.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Well, it used to be that if you got a.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Song on the radio and it played and the callbacks
on it and the response was huge, you really think
that radio doesn't have any way if you can make
it pull once again, it's reciprocal across the board, not
just for music. The good and invest in radio and
the radio gives back in kind. But imagine where radio

(28:48):
becomes more of a social media presence, because then all
the radio stations the social media would not be so
bad anymore because of what they're featuring. The artists being
only going to use these radio stations with their social
media platforms to prop up the artists and all these
interviews that they do. That'd be amazing, because radio doesn't

(29:10):
do a good job of that in the way in
the first place. With social media in general, you know,
if you wanted to make those DJs important, it's about
who they talk to, it's about who they feature. That's
important for them too.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Give them respect, it gives them integrity, a reputation.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
US broadcasters play over two hundred and forty million songs
a year, all without accomplishating the artists who made them.
And because American radio uses to pay other countries with
reciprical laws also withhold royalties for American performers. Yeah, so
the US overseas they know that the American artists are

(29:54):
not getting paid, so they don't pay them over there either.
But anybody else it's not that case. So we've talked
about those two acts, Local Radio Freemact, which would just
block it. And for the NAB, they're just basically playing
roadblock from anything that happens to protect the radio industry

(30:16):
because they have that for themselves.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
And that's it.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Some of the news we get into Howard Stern's suppility
has signed a new deal with Serious ExM. We don't
have any news about that, but Radar Online says that
Howard Stern has inked the new lucrative new contract with
Serious six M, described as a quote unquote monster payday
yet conflicting. There is highlight both Stern's uniquability to generate
buzz and the challenge of Series ExM faces and navigating

(30:44):
its long term value. But we have no confirmation on
the contract. As far as I note September second, we're
still supposed to be hearing from Howard Stern to getting
a public announcement as he will be returning page six

(31:07):
The New York Post saying Stern has been described by
some of the cutters as desperate quote unquote to manything relevance.
His younger voice has captured the cultural spotlight. Critics say
Stern's at wants a reverent edge has softened in recent years,
while its lengthy breaks and remote work habits have drawn
criticism even from loyal fans. Others argue that Stern remains
one of the most recognizable and big able personalities in audio,

(31:28):
with an unmatched track record of drawing media coverage and
stringing public debate. Yeah, I don't believe that there's a
deal yet. I just don't see it, and there's still
time for it. But we've talked extensively of the other
podcasters that are out there. Of the podcasters, he's not one,
but the podcasters that have already come in with one
hundred fifty million dollars deals over so many years that

(31:51):
over three year deals actually, as a matter of fact,
for SmartLess and for Megan Kelly I think was and
for Coloradaddy and Alex Wagner. Yeah, Alex Cooper, Oh my good,
Alex Wagner's MSNBC. That's what it was, right, getting those
people confused anyways, So we don't know what that's gonna
be true about that now. In the meantime, because of

(32:12):
the fact that radio has not been doing anything to
work with the record labels to discover new music. Now
we have new technology that wants to keep doing that,
and that's the idea too, you know, And we've heard
of different platforms out there to create new music discovery.
So there's been technology that's been trying to go and

(32:33):
help bridge the gap between the music that's on the radio,
so that is being played for the audience that wants
to listen to it. At least they're engage audiences, especially
younger audiences. So there have been things that have been
going on right now for years. So we've ad algorithmic

(32:56):
curation platforms like TikTok radio, leveraging advance AI to learn
user preferences and created a personal life playlists that adapt
over time. That we have a new platform we're going
to talk about in a moment. We'll talk about that
in a moment called Discover Radio take the e off
of it. Then we have social radio features like Tuned
Global Social Radio, incorporating social elements. Social elements into streaming

(33:19):
such as live listening parties, collaborative playlists, collaborative playlists, fanto artists,
interactions as usually created broadcasts. Remember when Amazon had that
one thing, They were trying to do the same thing
as well, that didn't work well at all. And of
course radio stations using social media interactive features because it's
free to create call ins and polls the bill counity
with listeners. We even have virtual and augmented reality environments

(33:43):
as well to put in our blockchain or decentralized audio systems.
Things like that. So that's been put out there. But
now we have what's called Discover Radio. It aims the
term aims to turn AMFM streaming into a launch pad
for new music. Audio is the company that is producing
this here au Ddia and.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
B.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
There was one particular app I've tried before, and they
wanted to go and try to make something with called Fader.
Faid R it's an app or you can actually listen
to music unto interrupted with no commercials, especially if you
buy the paid version of the app. Fader users currently
needs to subscribe to enjoy the benefits of the AI
technology that automatically identify as ad breaks, so gonna be

(34:31):
removed fro the listening experience. I tried it, and then
when they replace the music, it's not the same. Like
I mean, even when you look dreadles into streaming and
some of the ads might be different. I mean, I
remember when iHeartRadio to try to play other songs music
you might get into things.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
There's always these.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Little features of just keeping it music related to try
to keep you around for the commercial break on streaming
or digital or other segments. And they've never been really good.
I mean they try, but they're just not well done,
not well produced, and they're not gonna be consistent. It's
not like if you're playing more music that's out there. Well,

(35:07):
there's a set music playlist that is in Fader where
they'll try to match up songs of a certain genre
to try to have it blend with the radio station.
It doesn't really work that well. It's a nice try,
but we need to get a little bit farther up.
So here's what they say. Now, all the premium AI

(35:33):
features is not gonna be free to consumers. So instead
of monetizing customer consumers, Audio is gonna try to monetize
artists who want to put their music in front of
mainstream am FM streaming audiences. So these artists now they're
go and pay to get themselves featured on these radio
stations during the segments that don't have commercials. That's what

(35:54):
they're trying to do here.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Now.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Theo Romero, the chief marketing off, says, quote, the largest
group of potential fans remains on radio listening to music passively,
not particularly new artists, even though you are a topic
of the bit to hear new exciting music. Based on
our service and research, our new Discovery radio platform will
deliver this experience. Unlike other new music discovery platforms, which

(36:18):
allow artists to upload songs into hopes that new listeners
will find them among the other songs available, Discover Radio
delivers guaranteed plays to artists, leveraging AI to place their
songs into radio feeds as part of a custom programming
experience and as you neque content during what would be
typically during an ad break. And it gives artists opportunities
to be heard by the many millions of streaming listeners

(36:40):
streaming radio listeners worldwide. So this will consist of a
new AI placement engine and artist portal. So this placement
engine will aim to put the right new song in
front of the right listener on the right station. It's
like how Spotify would set things up to get you
to music they want to listen to. It, Like like tonight,
I got to set up my release radar. I go
home and find the songs that are gonna be on

(37:01):
the playlist they set up for me based on my
habit of listing, so I could take songs to put
them in mind all my playlists, which by the way,
I have six Spotify playlists. If you want to catch them,
I have them all listed at kinopodcasts dot com and
I update them regularly, so just you know about that.
The Artists portal will give artists performance analytics on total

(37:24):
number of plays, likes and dislikes, demographic data, and facilitated
connection of artists and new fans. In addition to streaming
songs on live radio streams, Discover Radio will also allow
artists eventually and labels to launch campaigns on streaming apps
to promote new songs, albums and tours. So the idea
is the radio stations being streamed on this app and

(37:47):
then Discover Radio is gonna have it where instead of
hearing bad commercials are the same kind of music that
might be similar but it's kind of overplayed or old
or whatever it is, you're gonna hear new music, new
music discovery on these platforms. Now music, you should know,
is what iHeartRadio would do. But it's of course the
artists they want to go and put up in front.

(38:08):
But this is allowing these managers or you know, artist
managers or representation to say, hey, you know what if
we can get this in front of radio stations, streaming
radio stations, whether it's the big radio station wherever you
are or what is the streaming outlets, and then during
commercial breaks, you have this particular platform that will allow

(38:28):
you to embed these artists into the same place where
all the other artists are. But the artists are going
to be paying for their way to get on there.
That's where the money's going to come from. So theoremio
Alarady says that now they've been running a pilot of
the program, They've sourced a handful of new artists and
asserted them into radio feeds, and they're looking for more

(38:49):
ways to connect with new artists with new fans. Radio
continues to be the perfect mechanism to bring new artists.
I agree theo, but radio tends to only play bands
or tracks that have already gained the requisite popularity. New
music platforms a band Camp and sound calued are integral
tools for artists to connect with new fans and even
monetize their content, but those platforms wily cater to a
subset of the total addressable market for an artists. So

(39:14):
if you know that new music is gonna be there
and you're gonna get a chance to listen to it,
money where your mouth is For the artists, they're gonna
put themselves out there and hopefully they will be noticed.
But now it's like you're not just doing some social
media that's just free to hopefully get somebody to go
ahead and catch your content and go viral. If people

(39:34):
are still avid radio listeners and they're incentivized to listen
to a station and retain listening audiences by having new
music out there, that's a great idea because then you
have it where it's suggested music, but the suggestions are
not from the algorithm. They're not from the radio stations

(39:56):
or these big radio companies trying to go ahead and
push somebody down your throat want to listen to. They're
gonna let artists themselves be able to go ahead and
port over their music onto the platforms, and they're gonna
have stats and measurements for the money they get for
it to realize. Okay, they get an audience testing measurement

(40:18):
for themselves, they get music research. That's great, So the
artists will really get a chance. They don't have to
go and produce a YouTube video or social media right
now right away to see if the song is gonna
do well. If that artist wants to be you know,
unrecognizable and just go with a voice and see what happens.

(40:40):
It's all about the production, It's all about the lyrics,
it's all about the melody. It's all about the hook.
If that works out for the people that are gonna
be on this platform and it melds well with the
music you're trying to go in and get themselves attached to,
that's a great idea.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
I love it now.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Fader first began offering free podcasts AD free in January
twenty twenty four, when it made fifty thousand episodes of
podcasts available, representing the top two hundred most popular shows
and subscribers. We're going to the ability to listen to
add free episodes, and then they also struck deals with
podcasts one and the Belief podcasts that work, among others.

(41:19):
So Audio is gonna let Fader keep this in mind.
So it's gonna be now a thing where people might
want to go ahead and rediscover Fader because there's no
longer gonna be a paywall to use their service. And
what's gonna be better off is that the kind of
music you're gonna get to hear on Fader that will
not be the radio station artists will be new music, which,

(41:42):
by the way, is a good idea because then when
you're listening to the same songs over and over on
radio stations, like if it's a pop station, and then
you have some populated artists with new music. That's what
we like to hear on a radio station. We want
to hear new music. And on top of that, it's

(42:02):
not some curated artist that is being propped up as
an industry plant. No, it can be anybody that's able
to go and get their content up on that platform
and have a chance to be heard on that radio station.
I don't know if it's geotargeted. I don't know if
it's set by radio station or what. But that's a
great move. So I'm going to go back and go

(42:24):
download Fader again and hold on to it because I'm
looking to see what they're gonna do with this business model.
This is a great idea. So I like this right here.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
This is good.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
It's good at least until the music labels decided to
start playing ball again. But this is just an easier,
chieper way to go and do this. And this company
is trying to go and do something to help radio out,
and I give them go a lot of credit for
that because at least you're trying to get people to
go and listen to radio again. And I completely love

(42:55):
that they're trying to make this out there. So Audio
au d DAI loveled your thank you for that and
also making it free for consumers. Fantastic bravo, big clap
from yours, truly, I love that. Okay, a few more
things wrap things up. I was gonna make a bunch
of about Sound Exchange, which is also they were trying to
go and get royalties from Serious XM for the music

(43:17):
that they play, but a federal cord had to ssissed
one hundred fifty million dollars lawsuit, so the royal teas
are trying to get from satellite radio did not work
and it wasn't gonna be able to happen, so unfortunately
So Variety of the magazine also put on a story
this week about how YouTube podcasts should be eligible for

(43:37):
Emmy Awards. Interesting and that would help the talk category
of the Emmys. By allowing podcasts like you see Cow,
Netflix is able to have their movies up for Oscars,
the same thing going for YouTube podcasts to be put
up there for talk. Ah, I couldn't care less about this.
It's fine whatever they want to do. That that's the
skim off my back. But that's something that they have

(44:01):
brought up as well, like can they do something that
we're talk shows that are podcasts? Can they be up
for Emmys? So New Heights with Travis and Jason Kelsey,
if you could get them up for an Emmy alongside
The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, Jimi Kimble Alive. That's
one of the things that we're thinking about that maybe

(44:23):
it's a long past time for video podcasts on YouTube
to be eligible for the talk category. So you're adding
Joe Rogan, you're adding theo Vaughn, you're adding you know
a lot of people. What could happen interesting or hot
ones or good mythical mourning, all these kind of things.
Maybe all that could work out.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Who knows another story for Rolling.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Stone, who killed the narrative podcast?

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah? The shows like Cereal that were really.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Big right, which, by the way, we know that quite
a few of those came from MPR and they're already
trying to make changes over there now. So like hosts
over All Things Considered and Morning Edition, they're starting to
go and drop off as part of the changes of
the whole lineup over there for Exisic some of themselves.

(45:09):
There's a certain collapse in the narrative podcast interesting about
what people are listening to. Yeah, anything that's scripted, the
true crime kind of stuff still holds up well, but like,
that's not the major course.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
People want to have.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Be able to be like Pavlovian. They want to be
fed content every week, and they want to be fed
content regularly, and they like talk shows. They like the
formats of those, which is fine and some of the
better than others. But yeah, I agree with that, and
I think just some people they want to have that
kind of feel to it all together.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
So that's not a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
I can appreciate all that. Finally, I talked a little
bit earlier about the MTV Video Music Awards. I don't
know if they mentioned who's going to be hosting yet,
but we already know right now the Sabrina Carpenter, Ricky Martin,
and Alex Warren are among the list of performers hitting
the stage of the Video Music Awards that Jay Beven

(46:10):
has also set up to go and go on there
as well. On September seventh at New York's Ubs Arena
in Long Island. That's the plan for that, oh ellel
Coolgia will be hosting That's right. And again, like I said,
it will not only be on MTV and all the
other ancillary networks under the Paramount banner, it will also

(46:30):
be airing on CBS. So Ella coolg hosting it. That's
a great move.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Somber will also be coming out and performing. He'll be
He's nominated for Best New Artists, Best Alternative for his
song back to Friends. Somber's good. He's got an upcoming album.
He's got a handful of songs. I like a lot
right now, Back to Friends, Undressed and twelve to twelve
He's got It. Buster Rymes will receive the first of
her mtvvm A Rock the Bells Legendary Award to celebrate

(46:59):
the cultural impact he's made throughout his decades long career.
Ricky Martin will be receiving the Latin Icon Award, also
celebrating the twenty sixth anniversary of his first VMA's performance,
where he made history being the first male Latin artist
to win for Best Pop Video of Living. The video
Lowe come of course, and there's also gonna be the

(47:23):
Latin feel of the VMA's always comes out so bad
bunnies out there playing. DJ Steak is gonna be live
wearing a new song called Noventa following a joint performance
of his latest hit Zum Zum alongside Justin Gidez and
Lenny Tavades. That's the plan for all that.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
So I like it.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I just hope there's some other acts that got out
there that kind of mix things up because MTV on CBS.
I want to see if it does well and so
again September seventh. But don't forget as well, they're gonna
have that whole thing set up where they're gonna have
music back on MTV.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
To lead up to it. We'll get to see some
of the artists out there going to be part of
this too. They are supposed to.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Be playing past videos, classic videos as well. That sounds
all good and fun. So any way we leave it there,
I hope you like you might as well talk about
the royalties and all that stuff. Radio music get yourselves together.
Please come back next week for the Broadcasters Podcast Room,
where the content is king and the control of your
content is in your hands,

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