Rafe Gomez's Groove Boutique and the Rewind of Nightlife Culture

Syndicated Radio host and Twitch Streamer Rafe Gomez explores the contrasting worlds of radio, music, and digital content creation. Gomez recounted his non-traditional entry into professional radio, where his mix show concept, deemed too "lively" for smooth jazz, found syndicated success on Sirius and later on WQCD as The Groove Boutique by providing an essential "solution" to plummeting weekend listenership.

This success is contrasted with his harsh critique of terrestrial radio as a "shittiest business enterprise" for its failure to prioritize listeners. The conversation pivoted to his highly successful, buyer-focused Twitch show, Danceteria Rewind, which resurrects the diverse sound and creative environment of the early 80s Danceteria nightclub with remastered, superior sound quality.

We also discussed the decline of traditional nightlife, the influence of analog-recorded music on new generations, and the importance of Latin rhythms in dance music, with Gomez ultimately advising new creators to focus on enduring, "evergreen songs" for lasting value.


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Podcasting since two thousand and five. This is the King
of Podcasts Radio Network, King of Podcasts dot Com.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
From trust your Radio to Twitch streaming to thousands.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
The King of Podcasts Radio Network probably presents to the
Broadcasters podcast Here is the King of Podcasts and.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thanks for doing me on the program. Merry Christmas here
from yours Trulian the Broadcasters Podcast King of Podcasts here
with the King of Podcasts dot Com. Now I am away,
of course, this being Dedrick Christmas. We are doing a
little early work of recording all this just before Christmas

(00:47):
time because I don't want to go and buggle down
with this because I know it's gonna be really tough
to get everything done, so I had to just get
it in before Christmas, but get done anyway because that's
what I do. So I hope all of you are
having a wonderful Christmas season len you get into the
new year. I have a brand new interview for you
right now, and it's very fascinating the world of music

(01:10):
radio clubs and so much more. My next guests on
the program. As a celebrated professional DJ, performingly nationally syndicated
radio personality and now a digital content creator based on
the New York City area host of the Dancitaria rewind,
and that's a weekly livestream mix on Twitch recreating the
groundbreaking sound of the legendary early eighties Dansitari nightclub. And

(01:33):
just so you give a background on that, that's a
nightclub that was in New York City and also into
the Hamptons. It would be recreated once again. And for
those that might have been out there listening, you know,
it might have been those types that may me listen
to H what do you say? Wk tu? I guess
back in the day, or you know, some other stations
that would be going on. Thirty West twenty first Street
in Manhattan was the disco scene for the film Desperately Speaking,

(01:58):
Desperately Seeking Susan if you want a little bit of
contexted as well.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
And.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Dance Injury. We Wind has received remarkable success fifty thousand
global followers and counting and earning ranking is both Twitch
is most globally extream music content and it's time soot
and it's most listened to weekly DJ mixshell. I'm here
with the co owner at VC Inc. Marketing and the
host of the dancer Thereer we Wind Ralfie Gomez. Ralphie,

(02:25):
thanks for me on.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
What up?

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Boy? Hey? How's the feel of my man?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Doing good? Thank you for making time to come on.
I appreciate it. And now what I'm talking to think about? Okay,
early early the mid eighties into late eighties New York City,
so I'm not just thinking about nancey theory. I'm almost
thinking about what the Palladium was still going on. I
don't know, I'm you know, not too far from Miami.
So we think about like, in the same sense, New

(02:49):
York and Miami can be somewhat aligned but also be
very individual and have their own identities. But the dance
visons that we had here that was a different feel,
but also in the same kind of rhythmic patterns, sing
BPM's going on here. You had that as part of
the backhup of what brought you into radio and now

(03:11):
into live streaming. So I wanted to figure out was
just give me a bit of a background about what
you were doing that got yourself in the club scene,
that inspired you to do other things to get yourself
more amplified.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Sure, man, Yeah, Dateteria was a club. It existed in
Manhattan from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty six. It
was referred to as a five floor supermarket of dialogist
in a former warehouse. It had five floors in it.
And what was unique about it, Jorge, was it that
it did not hither to a particular sound or genre.

(03:45):
At the time. Because we're talking early eighties, hip hop
was emerging, rap was emerging. House wasn't there yet, but
there were very influential songs that came out.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well Frank Knuckles that maybe it way over to New
or I guess that was the figure. Was he in
the Chicago and then came back. I forget what all was?
What were the DJs that you were hearing now? Were
you let me ask you about if you were involved
in the club or you were just going to the club,
and what were the DJs you were listening to that
we would have heard of now that had become legendary
in the scene.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
I was visiting the club. I was just a teenager.
I got a fake ID in Times Square because I
was living in New Jersey and the scene there was
sort of like post disco l just a really very
uninteresting And I went to Manhattan on the class trip
and I saw a newspaper called The Village Voice, which
was all sorts of listings of what was happening in

(04:36):
the city. Sorry, And I saw these incredible ads for
Danceteria and what was going on there, and I thought,
my god, I'm missing this. So I'm missing everything about
this place and what was astounding about it? Or was
it was five floors. There was a floor that was
a video lounge with experimental video. There were live band,
there were DJs, and the music that was played there.

(04:58):
What was so interesting was about it. You could go
on one night and you hear everything from punk, disco,
Latin Latin boogaloo, afro beat, emerging hip hop, emerging rap,
ed m which was just getting started glam, all of
it together in one place, in one nut. So uh.
It really did not have the defined vibe of like

(05:19):
the fun House with jelly Bean beneath this, which was
really hardcore electro sounds. It didn't have this sound, but
it had played some of those, but it wasn't uniquely
dedicated exclusively Two Vets or of the Paradise Farage, which
was Larry Levan, who was this emerging It was the
emerging house sounds coming out of that club, not house

(05:40):
per se, but what influenced house.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Well, Lario's day came even back when when disco was
very hot and heavy.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Right exactly. So all of the sounds going on across
the city, reggae, dub, all of those other genres they
intersected at Danceteria.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
And the thing that what was interesting was that, and
I bring up disco for the fact that disco was
so important, you know, after Studio forty four and then
after just a lot of changes where you know, the
mainstream we know that corporate music labels were able to
go ahead and just rape and pillaged disco music for
what it was and then just tear it apart because

(06:15):
they went ahead and made it so overmarketed and made
it made a taboo where people just didn't want to
get into it again. But again, that mainstream presence that
they had up until well like say nineteen seventy nine
went completely underground again. So back to the clubs one
more time, and then we see the emergence where you said,
of all these other genres coming into play and creating

(06:38):
the next sound of what would be post disco or
electro they might call it, or hip hop or whatever.
There was going to be, and the radio stations, obviously
they were trying to go and say, no, we're not
even going near this EF. Some of those mainstream stations
will go and play. But then right now, early eighties
in New York City, I forget whether it was in
New Jersey that would have been the stations are playing

(06:59):
any dance music of the time. We had WKU and
then Hot one O three becoming Hot my address even
later that's pretty much it. But even that is kind
of just, you know, homogenized as what you can go
in hear because it was so much more going into.
But now then you become a DJ. Tell me about
the transition into you actually playing the records yourself.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yep, I did it for fun. I did it in clubs,
just for fun with SL twelve hundreds technique to old school,
and I was not scratching. I just couldn't figure it out.
I did beat matching. I found the correct in and
out points based on beats, permitta and key, and I
would create the flow from one track into the next
doing it that way. And my preferred genre that I

(07:39):
liked really working with was there was a sound coming
out of UK called acid jazz and I love that.
I loved using those tracks and also tracks from great
tigger jams from early seventies jazz funk and using stuff.
I just really liked it the DWN side. And as
a DJ, you'll know this compared to programs drums, the

(08:02):
drummers on all of these shocks were either drunk or high,
so the bpms would fluctuate up or down by like
five peats per minute, so you had to really be
on top of it, always doing all these last minuted
adjustments to make sure that everything overlaped.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
But Mike Andre, your DG style would also go back
to make the very original I think about there. It
was a book that I remember reading, the Last Night
at DJ thing My Last which gives like the complete
history of DJing and dance music going back like one
hundred years. I felt like yeah, And I remember they
were talking about the one of the original hosts at the
Top of the Pops in the UK and Gimmy Saville

(08:37):
doing high school events, and that's exactly what he did,
is that he couldn't instially scratch anything. That time wasn't scratching,
but you just matched the beat and go from one
record player to another and they're not even get together
with a fader. It was just like, Okay, figured it out.
That's how he did it. Much more difficult, but the
still that was that kind of thing. And you know
that style is important because you don't have to show me.

(08:58):
For some of the music you have, you universtially have
to go that route. I mean either right now, we
don't hear anything of that of the big stadium eight
m type people like a Talvin Harris or David Getta,
or i'm On van Burau and or arm On van
held and or Joel Courrier, you know whatever of thus
out there eject shields. They are all matched, they're all

(09:19):
beat matches. They're not necessarily all doing a whole lot
of changes to the stuff. But I guess electric more
digital technologies allowed it.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
It's so simple. I'm not taking anything away from here
because it definitely is craft. But you plug in one
tracks one hundred and two BPN. You have the tracks
one hundred and two BPN and they're both perfect because
the drum machines, you choose the endpoint and it thinks perfectly.
I'm talking about human beings playing the drums. Where they're
going from if it's listed as one hundred and two

(09:48):
BPN or calculated they're going from like ninety five to
one hundred and ten because they're wasted. And that's what
made it fun. But the art is, how do you
It's such tremendous practice to hear where they speed up,
where they slow down, and then creating the beat matching
that way so that you really cannot tell when one
is ending and one is beginning, and that it flecks

(10:13):
the part of my brain that I just loved doing
because it was part creating but also a lot of
map to try to find those points. So I don't
take anything away from the DM guys, but come on, man,
it's just it is a very straightforward methodology to find
those those linking and overlaps. I just go look at

(10:33):
the numbers and boom, it's perfect. It's perfect. This was
the furthest thing from perfect. So now just to give it.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Where you're doing today, I want to give a little
bit of that because the thing was obviously with radio,
you know, we don't necessarily stay in the in the profession.
We sometimes have to go ahead and because radio is
a cruel mistress, it can only pay so much and Obviously,
we know that the mstry has changed a lot and
the relevancy of it is not as it once was.
And that's not the fall of itself. I think it
still can be a very much relevant platform. But we

(11:03):
have a lot of corporate companies that I and I've
been trying to be a little bit more humble about
my views on the radio industry and corporate radio because
of the fact that, yeah, they built themselves up to regulation,
accumulated some of these stations. They have taken on debt
as a result, but they have not found a way
to pay that debt off. And I don't know if
they were gonna do that, and I don't know. And

(11:24):
obvious we're gonna see ownership caps dropped again. The FCC
is going to go through that. They're going through the
period of determining if they're going to go and drop
more ownership caps. Because all these radio stations we're committing
is the Internet. We can't do anything about it. We
need where you have too much competition for them, You
need to help us. You need to break some rules, okay,
and they're gonna do that eventually. But one of these

(11:46):
was that radio is you know, holding itself back from
being at its potential once again relevant, being a tastemaker
whatever it is. And I know other people will say
the otherwise. I've had other radio talent come in and
tell me, no, that's not Whord's going to come from.
I get it, and they've been around forty fifty years.
Whatever it is. But you know, when you had a
time like what you did Ralfie, where you are now

(12:11):
a trust of sales support consultant to stars and CEOs,
and you do a lot of writing and do a
lot of work in terms of you know, articles and
publications and all and speaking and all, and well, the
one thing was you had to go and sell yourself first.
You had to go and market yourself first. And when
you went to and you were just talking to me
about this before we got on the air, about listening

(12:31):
to the smooth jazz station in New York City WQC
DC one one, what point nine. You know every market
we had an NAC smooth jazz format, and you know
down here we had Love ninety four. It was great, yep,
great DJs. And I I don't believe the whole idea
where like, oh, we want to go and make your
audience kind of comatose and just like help them sleep

(12:51):
at night. I'll admit I'd put those stations on at
night because I could hear Jerry Hester or you know,
Johnny Dark whoever it was, and I can really get
you know, into a lull and really get a great
night sleep. Fine, but you did something where in some
stations were they would be a little more enterprising on
the weekends. And what you did with them was you

(13:14):
created a dance formatted program that you pitched to them
that you felt would compliment the programming for those that
are going out at night and things like that. And
I heard other stations would do the same thing. I
remember wr WRMF, which was like the Soccer Mom, like
adult contemporary station, and then they took on a dance
formated show on the weekends, like really, and they did

(13:36):
it and it was around for like a year, but
it was very interesting.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
We did it.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
And then you show. You did this show called the
Groove Boutique. Not only did you get the show on WQCD,
you got it syndicated. Tell me about that story, and
real clearly, just about what I want to know about
it is that how you got a smooth jazz station
to buy into this radio format. This this what a
four to six hour program that you're able to good

(14:00):
them convinced to do.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
I'm going to go back to something you talked about
earlier about selling yourself. When I launched the group boutique
and started chopping it around and eventually it got on
started on serious radio, and then it came back. I
got a call back from WQCD. I originally putched him
on it, and they said it wouldn't work. It would

(14:23):
our listeners want to be enough for tests. But then
when this guy saw how successful it was, because there's
a lot of press being written about the show, the
first world the world's first jazz nixt show, he called
me back. He said, you know what, man, we need
to talk because you are solving a problem. Well you're
solving is we our listeners are plummeting on the weekend

(14:44):
and our airtime has this neuroeconomic value. We cannot give
our spots the way no one wants to buy them
on the weekend from ten to midnights. What you could
do is you could add value economic value to what
we're doing, and you could make us money because now
we can charge more for our spots. But that's what
it is. They I wasn't selling myself. I wasn't selling.

(15:08):
They could give a shit about me.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
I was your idea of that was nobody else's idea
but yours.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
It was a solution because they wanted to generate revenue
in a part of the day where they were they
were getting killed. So I was an answer to them.
I was taking kine away and that's what they wanted.
That's if that's in everything for if you're trying to
get a job, if you're trying to date a girl
or a data guy, you have to be viewed as

(15:34):
a solution to their needs. And that's what I was doing.
That's what it was.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
I was a solution to ask you this that I
was in the time of. So when you had this show,
give me the time period that we're talking about here
with the group Boutique, when it was on Serious and
for the length of time you had on from when
you started to when you stopped it.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
It started in two thousand and two on Serious and
then it was picked out by WQC and then they
helped me get it syndicated to forty markets across the
country from two thousand and three to two thousand and eight,
and in that time it led to me being able
to DJA at clubs, festivals, lounges. I had a show
on qv Squel, I was selling DDS jazz CDs at

(16:17):
five in the morning on QBC and it was awesome.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
It was amazing, it was up. Look at that wanted
this stuff. That's the part of the time period. I
wanted to go to make sure because when I'm kind
of good look up it was a little hard to
go and find that information. But in the research. But
now in the mid two thousands, right there, Okay, so
you think about the club environment that we had, the
night clubs that we had when you were growing up,
you know, early eighties, going to dance Interia, going to

(16:42):
other places obviously New York City or like, the night
life is tremendous, I would imagine, and down here I
would think about the fact that about us leaders about
two thousand and two thousand and eight, I already think about, well,
there were still night clubs to go to and you
would still be going on to the dance floor. But
much like radio, nightclub environments have changed completely because right

(17:03):
now we don't have nightclubs like nightclubs that used to be.
Because you know, though, those places that are still open,
if they are or they have opened up, they're all
table service. People are just kind of like flexing around
you with their phones doing influencer stuff. Nobody's dancing anymore,
nobody's grinding up on each other, and if there is
any kind of dance music being played, it's like brunch.

(17:24):
It's like, you know, soarez, it's like, okay, you have
some rooftop restaurant or something like that evening. It's not
like it was the nighttime atmosphere where there was just
that kind of vibe. That's all.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
I'm going to give you some numbers. Yeah, they're going
to blow your mind. In the late seventies through the
mid eighties, in the Tri State area of New York
and the boroughs across that region, there were ten thousand
liquor serving nightlife establishments.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Today there are less than a thousand. Wow, and that
is because ranks have gone up. The area where dance
Interia was located was a no person's land. Nobody wanted
to go down. There was no retail, there was no residential.
It was dead. But now there's condos, there's amazing store.
There's all of this stuff. So the places where you

(18:15):
could go for those kinds of opportunities and nightlife options
are they don't. They just can't open. It's too expensive.
And as far as the music goes, where you're going to,
what you're going to hear now is very mainstream radio music,
only the hits, because the places can't afford to be
trying to cater to a smaller, more niche, more discerning

(18:38):
clion feld that wants to hear new stuff, that wants
to hear stuff.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
That's not even county. The restaurants that would covert the
nightclubs at night and they would just okay, flip the
tables over, move them aside, let's pull the damport together.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah yeah, And so the economics have completely changed. But
getting back to dance Interiria, what I loved about that
that club. When I was a kid, they now just
this mooved and Denho from New Jersey going to. I
was a nobody. But what they loved about me, Korgey,
is that I paid full cover at the door, I
paid for all my drinks. I was not somebody who

(19:09):
was fabulous, who was going to get anything for free.
And it was people like us, the bridge and tunnel
people coming in from the Burrows and from a tunnel
into Manhattan that subsidized that club. We were thrilled to
be there and we would pay anything to be a
part of this is astounding magical experiment. And by the way,
the place was not just creative with the kind of
music that I played, and it was creative in the

(19:31):
types of people that worked there. Let me give you
a rundown of who worked at this club. Hello, Cool
Jay was the doormat. The Beastie Boys were custodians. Madonna
operated the elevator between the floors. Eith Harring, the global artist,
Eif Harry was a waiter. Jean Michelle Buskia, the artist

(19:53):
was painting murals in the bathroom. So this was a
hub of extremely creative people who were coming here to
part of this experiment, and that's what attracted be. Do
it uh and and now I recreate everything about what
that experience was like every Thursday on Twitch eight to ten.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
So let's let's talk about it. Setereia we rewind so
it can twitch his most global extream music content and
it's time slot and you have a very curated theme mix,
so trying to recreate what you felt in the clubs before,
and besides the fact you were doing things for the
jazz station, for serious sexem a group, boutique, dance ceriy rewind,

(20:32):
different field to it. I want to know what your
bringing is on that, because because if there is anything
that's mainstream now that you feel like that you do
kind of interact with, or you have you always felt like, well,
there's something about a stigma about anything that got too
marketable or too commercial. I can't play that. Don't me
where your mindset is about what you'll play and what

(20:53):
feels good to play on danceteria rewind.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
If something is good and commercial was a reason because
it's well executed, because it's well crafted, and you may
not like or I didn't particularly like the culture that
came along with something being a hit, where everybody and
their mob was digging it. That got kind of obnoxious
after a while. I was like disco, I mean, he
could separate the music from the culture of disco, the

(21:17):
dressing up, the mindset, that whole thing was really off putting.
But I go back and I listened to the Beg's
and a whole lot of that other stuff and I
can appreciate it. Then I can appreciate the production, I
can appreciate the songwriting. I can appreciate the mix in
a day in a way that I couldn't when I
was a kid, because it was all about, oh my good,
Louis Moron, is you trying to pick up girls? Of

(21:40):
being a jerk, trying to start fighting and he's a
disco guy. You couldn't get away from that. But now
we can step away from it. And I certainly I
played disco because the folks at Dad Sufuria they love
this go. They got a kick out of it. But
it was mixed in with all this other stuff that
was not played on the radio.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
This was and it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
There were hard holding this position where they only would
listen to or want to dance to music that nobody
else knew. It was just cool stuff, but it wasn't
getting attention. So the kind of stuff that I play
on Dance Interior Rewind is everything from groups like Liquid
Liquid esg He Creole on the Coconuts, I uh, all

(22:21):
of all of these. I played Joe Battant, I played
Latin Blue Laoth, I played after It beat by Tela
because that's what was played at the club. So there's
some popular stuff rippled in you. I'll maybe play something
by a popular New aid group at the time, but
I won't play the radio mix. I'll play the B
side six minute dub mix that was only played in

(22:43):
the clubs. And that is my nod to the fact
that sure this music was going on at the time,
but the way that you heard it in a place
like Dance Securia was completely different than what you was
here on the radio.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Now, what we have you being the DJ and just
putting the music out there on dansituriy rewind. Part of
it is view being on a Twitch stream here, and
also what you do on the radio show. You had
to be somewhat of a presenter. You had to be engaging,
likable and you know know what the good you know,
give your exercise on the record you're playing, and just
have a good way of moving things along. Was there

(23:15):
anybody on radio itself that you feel like inspired you
on how to be a good presenter so that you
could be the vocal portion of like leading the music
charge on, like with a Paco Navarro a WKTU. Would
that of an example of somebody that all right, he's
playing all these records of which by the think I
would think wk T you actually went off to the

(23:35):
end of what disco be zoos because he's played a
lot of stuff and also on the weekends. Yeah, a
lot of different of what you would hear in the clubs.
Like they really did kind of branch out and just
be very enterprising, which is why they were able to
go and topple the WBC at his peak exactly.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
So can I use any profanity on this or should
I take a clean Yeah? Okay? My rule with dance
with on the Groove Boutique, which is my groove jazz,
I called a groove a mixed show. There's one rule,
shut the fuck up, and I all I did. The
only time I talked was at the top of the
show and then when it was cutting out to commercial

(24:11):
the stop sets, and I even talk about the songs.
I wouldn't talk about me. I wouldn't talk about the
songs and how they made me feel. People were tuning
in because they wanted to groove to this flow and
I was the facilitator. So the only thing, the only
time I talked, and I didn't have a somebody that
I looked to as a reference point. As far as

(24:32):
the radio presentation, it was more of the mixing style
I was. I loved different mix of styles of DJs,
but as radio entertainment, what I was doing was again,
I'm providing a solution to folks either who couldn't get
out or were going somewhere and they needed some soundtrack
to warm up, or they were coming back at the
end of their night, and they regarded this as something

(24:55):
that enhanced their weekend adventures. And by the way, I
wanted to just point something out once I left radio
because the new jazz format capsize in two thousand and eight,
and then I started getting involved with working with CEOs
and startups to provide them guide meeds with sales support
and how to be innovative and how to be thought leaders.

(25:19):
I look back on my time in radio with this
new found understanding and new found ability to discern the
way a smart and effective business works, and Jorge, the
terrestrial radio business was the most sheitiest run business enterprise

(25:40):
I had ever encountered. Based on my awareness of what
these successful business people were doing in all industries, the
terrestrial radio business does not give one shit about their listeners.
They look at them as the conduit to generating revenue
with advertising, which essential, But as far as beasing them,

(26:02):
thrilling them, understanding them, they don't and they don't care.
And the biggest thing I've learned is about you have
to have a fire focused mindset in whatever business you're in.
And radio breaks every territorial, every single rule about that.
They do a horrible job of understanding and serving their

(26:22):
listeners and providing them with an experience that enhances their
expectations and needs and goals. And I'll give you an example.
If you go to a Starbucks in Miami and you
see the menu, if you go to event a Starbucks
in San Diego or in Chicago, the menu changes a

(26:43):
little bit. It's based on what's popular, that the tastes
in that market, the things that people like to eat,
or the way that their coffee is presented. It changes.
It's based on we don't know what you want, but
we're going to do research into what you do want
and we're going to reflect it with our menu. And
that's Starbucks. But if you look at terrestrial radio stations,

(27:07):
let's say the classic rock format, and you cover your
eyes and you just listen the classic rock presentation that's
on in Miami or in New York, or Dubuque or
San Francisco or San Diego. It is one hundred percent
the same, Every single song is the same. That's because
it is much more convenient and economically effective and efficient

(27:31):
to just have a single format captain like you had
mentioned to me, Clariy channel that runs the entire format
of every single station, and everything is one hundred percent
a cut and paste of that. There are but there
are bands, and there are songs that were massive in
one market that didn't make a dent in the other market,

(27:53):
but they're never going to be played. Uh. It's just
a stunning way of operating. Part of it.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
We were also you were talking about the age in
the mid two thousands where the irregulation was going wildfire
and every station is being bought up and gobbled up
by all these big corporate you nobodies, you know, the
butt packses of the world, the lowry maze of the world.
They all started doing their thing and just grabbed as
many stations, took up milk Caarmezan. Also in that same respect,
all that was going on because all these corporate suits

(28:22):
wanted to go and get as many radio stations pick
up as much property as they could, and that's what
they did because when the rules were loosened. You know,
if you could have had the group boutique, say twenty
years before, if it would have been in the mid eighties,
early the mid eighties, probably would have been a great time.
But that's unfortunately. It's just that it's the time period
that you landed on for radio that unfortunately just went

(28:43):
the win things bad. But anyway, let's go into the
music itself, because I want to get into part of
what was, you know, I want to get into the
fact of how music has changed so much, because dance
music will make its way a little bit into the
mainstream and then just take it way down because I
don't thinking about the fact that you would have been
in the club scene, DJing or you know, going to

(29:04):
the clubs and you had several ways of dance music
change around. So like, okay, from post disco, we go
into high energy and then Latin freestyle comes in into
the mid eighties. When you hear Shannon's you know, let
the music play, you start feeling that changed to it
and then and it also just kind of invigorates and
it kind of infuses into other music because you have

(29:27):
different artists that you're into that freestyle, Latin that hip
hop kind of feel to it, a lot of bpms,
a lot of percussion, a lot of just a feel
to it, and you have it in various Marcus and
then I remember in the late eighties what a wonderful
time for music because I think about the fact that, yeah,
hip hop was trying to make its way in, but
then you had Latin freestyle, you had dance, you had

(29:47):
NW jack, You had all these different types of music
that were all kind of very upbeat. It was again
after the Madonnas and the Princes and the you know,
all those big monster artists out there, and then you
see like every mainstream martist as well working their way
into being more dance oriented. And there were stations that

(30:09):
lived off of that. When I think about, Okay, you
had on the Hot ninety seven in New York. We
had Power ninety six or Hot one of five down here,
Power one of six in la you know, Q one
oh two and Philadelphia. All these stations were coming across
and it would we would have a crossover, and that
was when we had proper crossover. Okay, some dance songs
will make their way into the mainstream, but they're not

(30:31):
going to just stay up there. You'd just go and
become commercially successful and just stay up there. It's that
we would have a crossover, and stations were actually positioned
to be a crossover. The crossover's gone, and it's not
like what comes in streaming right now will cross over
into radio or into the seigeist of remain of an

(30:51):
audience that's relictiting globally on Spotify. I mean globally, yes, Euree, Asia,
South America, Latin America, sure, and America. But it's so
finicky because there's so much good dance that comes out
regularly from the UK or from wherever else. But it's
as if America overall, Middle America, or just any other

(31:12):
areas that's outside of the metro cities, they don't want
to get in the rhythm. What do you think is that?

Speaker 3 (31:18):
I don't know, but I will say something that that
touches on your point. Back in the era that we're
talking about, if you didn't live in one of the
markets where some of this ding stuff was happening, you
had no exposure to it. There were not these rhythmic
stations in the flyover country between the different coasts. It

(31:39):
was it was impossible and how do you discover it
and how do you hear about it? But now it
is incredibly simple to hear what everyone else is hearing,
though it's difficult to have any sort of regionality of
what's hot and what's happening. And it's also tough, I
think for I've to begin because trendsmit do begin, and

(32:02):
new sounds that are are emerging, I think they they're
very niche and they go up and they go down,
and then that's just the way it is. But the
artists that are extremely popular, like that Bunny and Taylor Swift,
they're all incorporating active rhythms into their music. So that

(32:24):
is that's that's encouraging. But I think what would have
to happen is that these artists would have to on
their own be experimental and try to do something fun
and and and bold and and uh unconventional, and then
that's how that vibe can extend very quickly of course

(32:48):
the country and the world, because these are the two
are just ubiquitous.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
On radio at the same time. Prayer we're talking about.
They all had live broadcast froom clubs everybody. And then
the thing is, and I'm wondering if that was something
where you know, as you said, you don't want to
be there. You want to say shut the fuck up
when it comes to being the DJ. But if you
listen to those mix shows that we had, not the
ones that's surely from the studios themselves. But like I
think of Pion these stics and they're like, all right,

(33:12):
which club are the at this week? Are they at
you know, Club Iguana or whatever else? And or Baja
Beach Club And they're like okay. And then you have
all these great DJs and the way they do it
for radio, it's so exciting, so invigorating. They are marketing
the clubs. You need to come down here, be part
of the thousands that are part of this. And you know,
with the DJs we had over here, oh my god,

(33:33):
we had you know, Mohammed and Maritta, Phil Money Jones,
DJ Lass just awesome, awesome here and they did do
a good job of like all right, here's a good
twenty thirty minute set and then okay, here's the point
of the We're gonna take a little break from the beat,
promote people, promote or whatever else is going on, and
then just like okay, get them in and again commercials
were very limited, but at night, the club was paying

(33:55):
for it. You had people that were flocking to it,
and people were all into it, and it would be
dancing in the same place where the live broadcast is going,
so you're not necessarily you know, you could do it,
and it was done so well. No one wants to
hear that part. But it's been replicated now on what
you're doing on twitch. But the difference is is that
we have a lot of your fillow twitch treamers out there.

(34:17):
Are you on TikTok? I can tell you the well
where everybody's doing a music there's a lot of music
shows out there right now. The new trend is no
more ASMR. We're now judging music. We have all these
people now, you know, send us your music and we're
going to review it on the on the stream. That's
the new thing I've been seeing now trending in the
last couple of months. But it's like, Okay, everybody's going

(34:39):
for engagement and they're not appreciating the music as self,
So like, can you really just listen back and listen
to it, because all these shows that are playing music
or DJing, they you don't want to hear feedback every
five seconds, Hey, shout out to you, coming into the chat,
shout out to you in the chat, and taking in
there with the bosses. More people are getting caught up
and that and getting an audience which I feel like

(35:00):
a little bit different than what you turn any on Twitch,
but you could do the same thing on Twitch. How
do you avoid being too engaged with the audience that
takes away from the vibe.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
Well, this gets back to the things that I talked
about the problem with terrestrial radio and also what I've
learned working steels at startups is my stream on Twitch
is a fout one thousand percent buyer focus.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
My buyers are my listeners, and I'm not doing this well.
I did it at first just for the pure joy
of doing it. Now I'm doing it to bring them
joy as well. So every track that I play is
focus on understanding their unique pasts and then reflecting it
with how I spin, so I can see the response
based on what I'm spinning, and I educate myself because

(35:47):
when I play something that really everybody is blown away
by it. They using this termin out like ggggg or
www MESSI is that? So? I looked it up and
that's gamer exclamation points when they really really love something.
So yeah, I had to become tri lingual for rimless stuff. So, uh,

(36:09):
with what I do on Twitch, I'm engaging with my
my audience, but I'm not doing the on the like yo, yo,
see money, then have what. I don't do any of
that shit. I just in fact, I'm not even live
on camera because nobody wants to watch me doing my
I'm not scratching. It is not fun to watch. It's
I'm doing this very boring, visually boring beat matching. So

(36:31):
I run a looking thing of photos of me and
photos of the original dance material log. But what I'm
doing is when I'm chatting, when I see somebody come in, yeah,
I actually I acknowledge them. They ask me questions. I
go back and forth. When did this track come out?

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yo?

Speaker 3 (36:47):
This is banging a boom, love that drop, and I
express my gravitude, but my focus is giving them an experience,
and uh, it'll works up. Whatever the rules are for
djaying on Twitch or for for DJing to engage I
didn't know what they were. I didn't care what they
were because if I followed all of them, but what

(37:10):
my mix was, you're shit, nobody would care. Nobody would
be even tuning in. But I focused on coming up
to an astounding mix and mind blowing curation and a
real journey that will entertain people, and then that other stuff.
It just falls into place.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
There are so many people that are streaming on Twitch
right now that are DJs. When I look at the
list that there is, DJ Jeffi is out there, and
I think of people that are on TikTok when I
see Franky Cutlass and all of a sudden, he's in
the studio doing stuff and doing content. It's a part
where you also on Twitch, you have to go and
compete against the women that are on there. Oh look,

(37:46):
look the hot looking chick that's got the headphones on.
She's atric beats it. Well, you're going up against all that.
So why do you think that you know the music
that you play continues to stand out where they can
see an og DJ like doing the stuff and playing it.
And on top of that, are you faster With the
fact that Twitch was such a popular place to listen

(38:08):
to music. I don't know if you have yourself plugged
into the board so that when you're listening to it
it's got a great sound to it, or if you're
just listening in, it's like you can hear from the studio,
you can hear the kind of the back job of
the studio itself.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Yeah, I know I'm plugged in. I'm not on a mic.
I am the only interraption with chat. But this is
gonna fry your dome. I remaster every track before I
used it. Wow, I boost the bass, I cut out
the crackles, I cut out the high end because the
stuff that was recorded is I play stuff from the

(38:39):
sometimes the early seventies because some of the times that
was played a dance scory. I play stuff from the
late sixties. So just imagine sonically the difference between track
to track compared to something that was recorded in nineteen
eighty five, which was when danceteria was still around. But
so I re eq everything so that it sounds that

(39:00):
as possible. In fact, people come and they say, oh
my god, I didn't know there was that's basing in
this track, And I say, son, there is it. I
put that shit in there, But that's just to make
sure that everything is as audio pleasing as possible. But
as far as twitch is concerned, something that I tell
my clients, my business client is you want to go

(39:21):
where the competition isn't You want to go where there
you are the only person in the spotlight and nobody
else is taking the shine away from you. Want to
define the market where you're operating, where your competition is
left black jawed because they overlooked it, or don't understand it,
or they're too lazy to pursue it. And that's what
I'm doing with Danison, Fury or Rewind. You're right, I

(39:43):
see that the hot chicks with the headphones, but if
you look at what they're playing, they're all playing a
variet a variation of the same thing. They're all treading
in the same pool. So why would I want to
be one more guy in the pool where there's much
better looking people that are doing I want to come
up with something that nobody's doing. They wouldn't be able

(40:04):
to figure out, they wouldn't want to figure it out,
and if they did it, they wouldn't be doing it into
the same wage. So I'm defining my market. I am
doing something that the competition just doesn't care about, and
I own it. I own this space. Nobody else can
claim a recreation of the Dance Theory experience because nobody
else hairs. However, i'mbout fifty seven thousand global followers that

(40:27):
are like, hell yeah, we're into this. Stir it and
that's what I want.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
To do now.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
And when it comes into music, I always like to
say like this that a lot of the new music
that we get at these days is very disposable. They
don't have a whole lot of value where I feel
like we're going to go back and listen to them again.
It's very rare if I find it at all. I
think there's quite a bit of dance music I can
still feel like I could go back to. And I'll
appreciate when Spotify Rap just came out yesterday, as were

(40:54):
recording so on their own website, they're actually talking to
their own people in the house and they talk about
how social media being a discovery engine and how social
platforms shape music trends. And one of the areas you
talked about was, you know, in Spotify, I look at
the global two hundred every week and you can see
the music discovery for those that are younger, that are

(41:15):
discovering music from you know, decades past, and they're you know,
bringing it to life once again. So one of the
areas they talk about here was the revival of trip
hoop being a massive part of culture today. That the
soundtrack of the mid nineties built spoke vocal, the hip
hop leaning beats Port his Head, Sneaker Pists for example,
and that you were hearing everywhere FK Twigs, Pink Pantherasts

(41:36):
right now current day you have the glossy down to
down tempo R and B of Oaklu and then there's
you know, they mentioned some of the playlist that actually
played to that as well, that there is something about
discovering your music and bringing it back to life and
just making a viral once again. What do you see
in terms of what your audience is responding to and

(41:59):
the kind of audience so you get that is a
younger skewing demographic, and how they are attaching themselves to
new music that is from what we've listened to growing up.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
What's fascinating orge about a lot of the stuff that
I play is it has been sampled and is used
in today's Hopkin like Genius of Love by Tom Tom
Club that was not only sampled by Mariah Carey's or recreated,
it's being used I think the last three years somebody
used and had a huge hopit so and in addition
a lot of this stuff that I'm playing, there's some

(42:30):
very talented music supervisors in gaming and TV and movies
that are using these tracks. So somebody will hear something
like Liquid Liquid Cavern, which is the money that those
guys make in licensing and thinking compared to what they
sold as a vinyl record when it first came out.

(42:52):
The band Liquid Liquid is astounding. So there's a familiarity
that way where someone will go, hold, what is I
heard this in Range Your Things on Netflix? I heard
this on this TV show. So there's that excitement of
being able to pegget something that they're already familiar with.
And then as far as like the way the music
is being produced now, everyone is working off of the

(43:16):
same sounds, the same modules, so there's a sameness in
the way a lot of this stuff is being consumed.
It's very difficult to come up with a very different
sounding crack compared to everybody else. And if you look
then back on in the days when it was analog,

(43:38):
every record sounded different, every board sounded different, all the
issuers that were used sounded different. And then especially when
you're talking about live musicians, My god, no records sounded
the same. Everything was completely unique. And it was not
just especially dance music, the swungs that really exploded. It
wasn't just the groove, and it just wasn't just the production.

(43:58):
It was the fact that they're was a phenomenal song,
a song that you could play on an acoustic guitar
and it was just as moving as it was when
you listen to it on a twelve inch.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
And I mean, we've had go through for a long
time where you had a lot of songs that would
just come to light a newer Calabria. How many more
times a out they hear that sampled you into a
dance mix today or you know, it's like Victory Amos,
Professional Widow or whatever there is, it's like, okay. The
other thing too, is that when it comes to rhythm,
I don't know, there's something about I missed my question here,

(44:35):
I had a loss. Give me a second, let me
go ahead and come back in real quick.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
Oh there we go be men.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Now in this hall talk we're talking about here, we've
been talking about with dance music. But listen, last name Gomez.
I would imagine that maybe you might have a little
bit infusion. You might have gone to some of those
clubs that were playing soft on merengue or maybe even
some of the reguiton that comes out now den Bo.
You're in New York, so you would know like there's
a lot of rhythmic coming off that Spanish And have
you touched into any of that ever in your time

(45:05):
doing music and is that something that Eric gets infused
the way you might do Dan Setaria or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Absolutely. When I had the Grew boutique, I was always
playing Latin jazz Barsalova. I was always in using it
very strategically because the percussion, the syncopation, it just adds
and interests your ears. It sparks them because it's not
following the same four for Western rhythm as as most

(45:34):
grooves have that would be in that genre. But speaking
of the Zeperia, the influence of Latin bualu and salfa
and shielding was massive because you had all of these
white boys that were in punk bands that were tired
of just banging their shit around. They wanted to keep
that up, but they wanted to also make people dat

(45:55):
it get the women coming to the shows. So they
started in using a lot of groove rhythms, even though
there were guitar bands and especially Latin sounds. Because you
drive through New York, you go to the record stores
that existed the vinyl stores, you could not escape this genre.
You couldn't escape all of business incredible rhythmic thica pations.

(46:17):
So I'll give you an example. There's a band called
Conk that was massive at Danceteryria, and they were an
eight member group that were not the most proficient musicians,
but they just stoked everything in and they embraced Latin
sounds completely. They have a song called Conk Party where
they're singing, but then they're singing in Spanish too. These

(46:39):
like white Downtown former punk kids, and the grooves that
they have are just stick the things that they came
up with. And that song Conk Party, I can put
that on on Dance's Theory rewind it's over forty years old,
and I will get a flood of gg's wws from
the twenty somethings that are listening to this show. So theory,

(47:00):
especially the Latin influence was massive, and I'll even go
any further. When the UK bands came over here to perform,
they were exposed to it. So New Order listened to
what was happening here and they came up with Confusion,
which is pretty much freestyle. Back in the early eighties,
a group called Modern Romance from the UK. They heard

(47:22):
Bounds by Kick Creole and the Coconuts and by Cody
Mundy who had a huge Pophit called say Hey in
the UK and they became a UK band that was
doing the UK version of SASA. And there was a
salsa movement in nineteen eighty one that was pretty popular

(47:43):
over there. So then now you've got these UK bands
being influenced by New York salsa and then releasing songs
that were influencing the New York DJs and the upcoming
New York fans. So it was a synergy with the
last sound that was just amazing. And I'm constantly reflecting
that when I'm playing on daxteriory why.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
You were interviewed by the folks who killed at DJ
dot com earlier this year and you made the point about, well,
the fact that the music industry are now again about
one hundred and twey thousand songs get pushed out, I
think is every month on Spotify, and you know you
just recorded music revenues grew to seventeen point one billion dollars.
So while the music industry is not selling physical copies anymore,

(48:28):
when that went away by the way of Napster, that
really hurt their business. But they found a way to
go and get that back. The catalogs have been selling
over their artists and all these other things they've been doing.
But when you were asked about the year the issue
being subjective or subjective, you said that quote there are
no textbook definitions of what determines whether music is good.
If the creator enjoys the process of crafting a music
track and sharing go the world, it's good. If the

(48:50):
public responds by buying the creators physical albums, downloads, merchant
concert tickets, it's good. If the creators isople the licensed
music for films, TV commercials, or video games, it's good.
End quote. Well that's the thing, now, is it. I mean,
you don't want to go ahead and just live in
the past and say, Okay, here's all the music that
was great. I don't want to be one of those
old people that like, Okay, it's not like it used
to be fine, but like I still today my Spotify

(49:14):
rat that says my listening age is sixteen because I'd
go ahead and consume so much new music. But my
difference is I, yeah, I go through, but there are
certain songs I listen to for maybe like about a
month and nine day drop because there's just not much
value to it. I'm not going I'm not in the
radio since where I would go and listen to a
song until I bury it to the ground. I'm like, okay,
well I'm getting tired of it out off my playlist.

(49:37):
And that's where we're at right now. Is that the
way we judge music? It's a matter of we don't
have anything to work off of to know what is
good except only to our own individual taste. So use it. Now,
how do you go determine what's good? And what would
you tell for concent creators out there, those that are
trying to create music or producer or mix music like

(49:59):
you did or do now, Like, what would you tell
them that they should be keeping an eye on and
keeping the inn ear on that trying to go in
least you know, set us on the masses.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
If you're focusing on the production and you're trying to
have a variation of the production to the sound or
the beat of the moment, you will be the flavor
of the second. It will not be evergreen, and it's
going to be like you said, hearing gone, it's going
to have going to get some shine and then it
will evactorate. Focus on a song c Yate an incredible, evergreen,

(50:34):
forever song and enhance that with that same production. Now
you have the opportunities for that to be licensed for
film or TV, or commercials or video games. You have
the opportunity for the played in whatever venues are possible.
As far as clubs go, it's all about the song.

(50:55):
The song has enduring value. I wrote some songs got
then that I were released on Tommy Boy Reference. I
still get royalty checks. I still get royalty checks for
both is.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
What a great what a great label and so diverse?

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Two yep. Yeah, So focus on the song. If you
focus on the beat of the minute of the since
sound of the minute, yeah, it will be cool, but
it will just be the sands of time will be
running out. Man, the expiration date will be stamped on
that project, and it'll be three months from now. People
are gonna be hanging abut chocolate. Yep. Whatever I'm on

(51:35):
in the.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Next day, fantastic or again ROTHI Gomez and no, let's
go take a minute about real quickly before we run
out of time to talk about your nine to five
VC in marketing. So there's a lot you doing right now.
Kind of go with clients and customers helping the Jerry
Moore revenue, so the marketing end, and just to be
real quickly about what people should know about what you're

(51:55):
doing in your consult again.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Yeah, I work with CEOs and start ups. I help
them to reframe their mindsets to have a buyer focused
book obsession on what they sell with there's a producty service.
I help them to find the white space that allows
them to claim a particular type of area and the
market that their competitors are ignoring or overlooking. I help

(52:21):
them get focused in the media and attention in the media.
And it's good for any organization in any industry of
any size. And incidentally, or hey, I use the same
lessons that I offer to my clients in how I
run down interiory Wine. So when I'm talking to them,
I say, listen, man, I don't just talk the talk.

(52:41):
I walk the walk. Here's an example of what I
do from my basemic sun, and it is having a
global impact. So this, this mindset, this approach, this methodology,
it works works. Work that is not about me. No
one gives a shit about me, but they do give
a shit if I come up with something that enhances

(53:02):
their life and bring them joy. And that's what it's
all about.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
And I gotta make this point too. So when it
comes to music, there are new artists out there, and
there is new music that's going to the forefront that
is gonna have a lot of value out there. I
actually talked last week on my broadcasters podcast as a
recorded is that Olivia Dean as an example with her
album art Loving, That's an album that's gonna last for
generations because everything is so quality instrumentation. Her music is glorious,

(53:31):
and I think of Ray and the same thing because
of her music coming from a dance background, because the
music had her kid there and that route as a
featured singer on every dance track and then she brought
off with independent and build herself for row. Now she's
got where of the l's my husband? As a song,
it is completely different and a different orchestration. It's hot,
and you know, people can go from the dance end

(53:52):
and then convert into something more main stre but they
want to do that, so it's always a great gateway
to get in. But the thing is that there is music.
It can still break through the mold and become viral
and not just be more than viral, but also the mainstay.
And I want to just make sure that creators out
there can get to that. It's a little bit harder,
but it's attainable. That's why I think we gotta get.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
It is one hunderdersent unobtainable, and I love the examples
that you refer to. But the thing that should guide
it is is this bringing me joy? Is this bringing
my target audience joy? If it is making them stop
and stoke this in and have them be moved for
three minutes or five minutes, that's the goal. It's all
about selling something because you are your eating as a creed.

(54:33):
You are selling something that is going to improve people's
daily lives. And if that's your focus, You're going to
have a much greater leg up than anybody who's just
doing just for themselves.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
So again here with Ralfie Gilmez, the host of Dancitury
rewind on Twitch go look for a show live and
what night here.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Eighty ten pm, Man eighty ten pm on Twitch, Twitch
dot com forwards last Jacks why I will be cold
kicking it live to night eight to thir tm eesd
and you can experience and take a time travel back
to this astounding time of night life and arts and culture,
multi genre mix and you will love the way you

(55:15):
feel when you check it out. Gg ww.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
And if you also want to go and learn on
the consult again vci NC Marketing dot com to go
ahead hit on the businesses done with Raffie, you can
also does well. Ralphie, thanks for being on correlliate.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
It or Hey, you are also going to thank you
very very much. I really appreciate the opportunity to share
the crazy ass ship that I talk with you and
with your listeners.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
I have no doubt that next week we'll get some
year ends stuff coming on and we'll probably go ahead
and a little retrospective back of the year that was
twenty twenty five in media. And of course come back
for next week for another Broadcasters podcast, And remember that
content is king and the control of your content is
in your hands. By the way, nine anniversary r actually eighth

(56:01):
anniversary of the program coming up in two weeks. Wait
for that. We'll talk to you then.