Addiction and Recovery in Reality TV

Josh has Carolyn Wiger of Survivor 44 and The Traitors US Season 3 and Ryan Kehoe of The Challenge 40 on to discuss being in recovery while doing reality tv!!

-Creating a life full of sanity
-Where can sobriety take you
-Its okay to ask for help
-Filming a show while being sober
-And much, much more!

Twitter: @ChallengeFanPod

Instagram: @challenge_fanatics_podcast

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's going on now, and welcome back to some bonus
coverage here on the Challenge Addicts Podcast. My name is
Josh Green. You can find us on all social media
platforms at Challenge fan Pod. And this has been an
idea that I've had in the works for some time now,
and I'm very excited to bring some bonus coverage about
recovery and addiction in reality TV with two wonderful guests

(00:27):
to talk through it all. As I know, there's plenty
of people out there who are recovering addicts or addicts
in their life right now and at some point may
want to do reality TV and see how that goes.
So I want to bring on a few people that
have had that as part of their journey on their

(00:49):
reality TV seasons. And first a man who I spoke
to about the Challenge forty a couple weeks ago, someone
who had a long run here, and someone who I
hope we get to see on many seasons to come,
the great Ryan Kehoe. Ryan, how you.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Doing, I'm great. Thank you for having me again.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'm great. I was just in Europe for like three weeks,
so I'm I'm catching up on life. But I'm happy
to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Always good talking to you. I hope you enjoyed Europe.
I'm sure it was amazing. And we are also here
with an icon of the Survivor New Era, someone who
we will be seeing in a few months in the
Castles of Scotland on The Traders season three, the Great
Carolyn Weiger. Carolyn, how you doing.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
I'm gonna correct you because it's actually Wager, but I
like the way that Weiger sounds better, so I probably
shouldn't have corrected you.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
So you know what, let's just not let's keep it
at Wiger. But thank you. I love that entrance.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
No, you should have corrected me, and I appreciate you
doing that. That is my bad. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
I like, honestly, I tried to change my name to
Coco last year and it just didn't stick. When they
did like we have to like submit our names for
like They're like, what do you want it to say
on the whatever? And I'm like yeah, telling everyone, I'm like,
oh my gosh, like maybe this is my opportunity. I
can go into The Traders as Coco and everyone's like

(02:22):
you can't, just like no, you can't. And I've learned
that you first of all, you can't come up with
your own nickname.

Speaker 5 (02:28):
You can't, and you just can't. Like it doesn't stick.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
And I tried to force it for way too long,
and I'm not ready to give up quite yet.

Speaker 5 (02:37):
But do you want to call me Coco? You can?

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, Ran, you come from a show where there's nicknames plenty. Uh,
you don't. You don't assign yourself a nickname. You know,
it's not a thing, not a thing.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
But when you froze, you froze there? What'd you say?

Speaker 1 (02:53):
I said, you come from a show where there's plenty
of nicknames given. Oh yeah, but you don't have sign
you don't assign it to yourself.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Now, just rye rye or kyo my last.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Name key hoo or the key hose you know, and.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Actually you spelt you said my last name wrong. It's
not key ho like h. It is spelt with an age,
but it's actually a hy sound, so it's keyo ke yo.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah yo, Okay, Well, line.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
And I have to go. I'm sorry you didn't know
our last name.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, yeah, damn, damn. Yeah that was Yeah. That's a
rough way to to start, but thank you both. I Yeah,
everyone needs to be humble. So no, but in all
seriousness from from watching both of your recent seasons, I
really I just was sitting back as a viewer and

(03:51):
as a fan, like realizing that there's more and more
people who don't just go through the Oh. I met
a casting producer on a boardwalk and like this is
how I got cast. Like there's there's real people with real, uh,
you know, human stories, and I felt like this was
something that that could be, you know, a good thing

(04:15):
to to talk about, and you know, as a recovering
addict myself, it's it's one of those things where it
can give people hope as well, you know that there's
more more to life, uh than than the vice of choice. Ryan,
I want to start with you because on all starts,
for like, we had that beautiful moment where everyone's celebrating

(04:37):
your one year sober. There's like that cake being made
and everything's just so everyone was so supportive of you.
Was it like all the cast crew, production, everything, you know,
through your your journey coming back to a season being sober?

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Well yeah, And I also want to note that, like
all of my seasons I did in my twenties, like
fifteen twenty years ago, I was really cast as the
party boy. I was like the gay, slutty, promiscuous, making
out with everyone in the hot tub guy, keeping the
party going body shots, you know. And so coming back

(05:18):
on the show, getting asked back to do a couple
seasons of All Stars and then doing the main show again,
I had a little bit of an identity crisis because
I was like, you know, the things that used to
drive me no longer drive me. I know that I
have something special that the viewers will relate to, but like,

(05:38):
what is my role if it's not to get everyone
naked in the hot tub, you know, keeping people up
till the sun comes comes up. So it was very
like intimidating to go back into a challenge house knowing
the amount of partying that I did and how much
access we had to all the things back in the day.
So it was refreshing to you All Stars and literally have.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Like people like Carl Maria.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Choose not to drink the entire season just to support me,
just to be like, well, you know what, my game's
going to be better if I'm not hungover, so I'll
not drink with you.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
And that was the vibe.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
It was very mature, no one is trying to like
make me relapse on camera. I even put it in
my contract that if I slipped, I would A not
get paid and B would get removed from the show.
So I like did all the structure for myself to win,
you know, And there was certainly a little more pressure

(06:37):
knowing that fans are going to see this, so if
I did have a slip, like you know, I would
be canceled or something or like people would be disappointed.
But I kind of liked also having that added pressure
from people that are watching to show them like you
can do a reality show and you know, pushed through
the pain you've been I've been through worse, I've been

(06:57):
in darker.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Alleys before, so.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
It was refreshing to have like minded people that wanted
to see me when in that way.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, And I think it's one of these things where
also with with all three of the shows you to
have done, you're you're not seeing a ton of well
a little bit with Survivor, there are some twenty year
olds there, but you know, on the Traders and you know,
on the Challenge, now, we're not dealing with people in

(07:30):
their twenties straight out of college, Like let's party like
all that kind of stuff. So especially for you, Carolyn,
like I feel like the shows you've done, it's very
much like a supportive mindset, like you're not in a
challenge house where it's like alcohol around all the time.
Did you kind of feel that support as well?

Speaker 4 (07:50):
Oh yeah, So, first of all, like obviously like doing Survivor, right,
it was not.

Speaker 5 (07:57):
First of all, I mean, there's we're not even eating.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
So when we did, and that was on all like
the rewards and her journeys or whatever where there would
be food and there's always like the margarita's or the
but then they have the non alcoholic option and it
never was like a it was even with the cast.
So when I was on the journey and Frannie chose
me to go with her, we were all I think

(08:23):
they they all asked me, is it okay if we
drink too? And that always I appreciate, But it's like
I don't ever expect anyone to, like, you know, like
do your thing, do your thing. I'm not like you
literally even haven't even eaten or anything, and how long
like do whatever you need to do. And I think
that was the biggest thing for me, is just like

(08:45):
whether I be on a TV show or in a
workplace or whatever. When I tell people I'm sober, it
just sometimes makes people uncomfortable and almost makes people like,
how do we act around you? Or is it okay
for me? Like if I'm dating somebody, I want you sober,
like I just do. It's too hard, Like I don't
want to smell it on you.

Speaker 5 (09:05):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
It's just a different lifestyle. So it's like or you
don't have to be like, uh, sober, but you need
to be sober in front of me. But I also
it's like it's just like a different mindset, different whatever. Okay,
what was I saying?

Speaker 5 (09:20):
Oh? But yes.

Speaker 4 (09:21):
More so it's like I've I've learned throughout like my
recovery journey. I have to almost just teach people how
to treat me, how to like this is my recovery.
This is But it was it was like what can
we talk about alcohol? I remember working somewhere and they're like,
we were we had a barbecue this weekend and there
was drinking, and I'm like you can, like I know

(09:42):
it exists, Like come on, it was very odd.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
It's uh, it's one of those things where you know,
I commonly talk about in my recovery journey too, people
places and things, and it's it's like we all know
it's whatever fill in the blank, advice of choices, it
is there, you know, Like it's not like you just
stop and all of a sudden that's gone. You know,

(10:09):
it's still going to be around. But I do think
there's that like very respectful you know the fact that
people haven't, like you were saying, Carolyn, they haven't ate
anything or you know, drank anything aside from water in
you know, two weeks and they're asking you if they
can have alcohol around you. It's just like a nice yeah, yeah, yeah,

(10:33):
it's it's a it's a really nice like boundary of
respect because like in other aspects of life, like people
may know, you know that you're sober, or that you know,
you don't gamble, or you don't take pills or you
don't do drugs, and yet they'll put you in a environment,

(10:54):
you know where it's like, hey, you want to drink,
and then you have to remind them after you've already
told them you know, hey I'm sober. So no. I
think it's a really good a good environment, especially nowadays.
I mean before, like you were saying, Ryan, you know,
a lot of those challenge seasons, it was like, let's

(11:15):
just go outside by the pool and you know, get
fucked up, all right.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
But and with with uh, with this particular cast, when
there were times that we weren't competing the next day
and it was like barbecue time. People would be sloshed
and I'd be hanging and then they'd go to hand
me a beer and they'd be like, oh, hey, I
forgot you don't swing up, so sorry.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
I'm like, it's all good.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
They're like, you don't seem sober, and I was like,
that's because I'm naked in a hot tub and it's
three am and I'm still me like that, Shane, you know,
I'm still a fucking freak show. Yeah, so that was
kind of nice too. And honestly, strategy wise, when people
are drinking and you're not, you remember everything, You remember
every conversation, you remember.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Who said, what about what.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
So it was it was kind of my my special
superpower being sober.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
It's also so much the case like obviously you know,
I haven't done a show, but like being in social
settings when you're around drunk people, like drunk words sober thoughts,
so like you're able to pick up on what they're saying.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
My god, and it gets boring, and you know, I
would leave if I'm like, all right, these people are
on their way to being blacked out.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
This is not fun for me at all.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
I would go find a quiet part of the property
and do my own thing.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
But it's I enjoy people drinking around me. I enjoy
some people.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Oh, you're actually more fun when you drink. Sorry, little
little Luther, when they're having a couple drinks. It's when
they get blackout or agro or like aggressive that it's
a trigger for me, not my jam.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
No. I did want to ask because I know, you
know Carol, and you obviously you know, went through your
first casting experience only a couple of years ago with Survivor.
Was it something that you know, you kind of highlighted
when you were going through the application process. Was it
something that kind of just naturally came about when you.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Were it naturally came I'm the worst interruptor, so just
helped me. It just comes out so nat like, it's
just naturally comes out because it's a part of my
life and a part of my story and a part
of who I am. So I don't know how I
would have gone through the casting process and not talk
about it. I really, I like, I truly. I can

(13:41):
remember this time. It was one of my interviews and
they told me to like swipe my whatever because it
was all virtual. And I saw all of these producers
and it was so many of them, and I just
start crying, like I'm just like and they're.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
Like, oh, We're sorry, did we overwhelm you? Is this
too many people?

Speaker 4 (14:03):
And oh, sorry, no, you're I was gonna call is
this too many people? And I I cannot block that out.
I'm sorry, is this too many people? And I said no,
I'm just so grateful to be here. Never in a
million years would I have thought that I would be
like interviewed by all of these producers and have this

(14:25):
potential opportunity to do the show that I love. If
you would have told me, because I think I was
like thirteen years sober at the time, fourteen years ober.
I said, if you would have told me fourteen years
ago I would be here with you people right now,
I never would have believed it. And I'm like, I
used to hate myself and I used to like, this
is like and I'm like.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
God, I'm so proud of myself right now, and I'm like,
I don't make it. I want you to know that I'm.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
Grateful because I do feel that, and I know that
sounds like such like an aa like annoying ass like
I'm grateful to be here today. I was so grateful
and that that carried on to like the island where
I was there, and it's like this sense of gratitude
that I don't want to be like normal people don't have.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
I don't want to say that, but it.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
Was like I had this ah where I would be
looking around. I was so freaking excited and grateful to
be there, so I remember everything I'm looking at the
starfish I'm looking. I was that person who was always
like twenty feet behind everybody else because.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
I was like, wow, yeah, you want to take it
in a snap shots.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
I felt so grateful, so it's such a part of
like who I am. And then when I went there,
I was so excited to like cause I'm I, okay,
I don't want to talk the whole time, but like
when I got sober, right, I wanted to have deep,
meaningful conversations with people.

Speaker 5 (15:47):
I got sick of the fluff and the bullshit. Well
I realized that, yeah, I had.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
No friends because it was like all the people I
was surrounding myself with, like what are our common interests,
what are our common nothing?

Speaker 1 (15:58):
But we know what yeh.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
So I'm like, oh my gosh. So I start meeting
people and I start having these deep conversations and I'm like,
that's what I'm craving, That's what I need. So that's
been me ever since getting sober. It's like I want
to seek out these connections.

Speaker 5 (16:14):
So I was so excited to go and I'm like,
I'm gonna be.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
With some interesting people because it's really hard to get
on this show.

Speaker 5 (16:22):
These people are going to be great and I'm gonna
learn all about them.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah yeah, hell no.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
And I really wasn't like that.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
And Ryan, I remember you had mentioned that to me
because you had you went out for All Stars for
and I know that group of you that went to
go do forty. You're getting to go to South Africa
and then a couple months later you're going to film
in Vietnam. Like, oh, Carolyn just mentioned it, right, that

(16:51):
idea of like, yes, it's preachy and it is twelve
step now.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
But the gratitude is so true, real, and I it's
so it blows my mind that they've never showcased anyone
sober on the challenge. In fact, like back in the day,
if you weren't drinking with everyone, it's like, what the
fuck is wrong with you? Like we'ever early twenty like
you know, Yeah, so to be received back into the

(17:19):
franchise in my forties, newly sober, with open arms was
really a special thing. And yeah, just I'm so grateful,
Like you know, I wound up staying. I broke my
shoulder on All Stars four. It in South Africa on
the fifth day that we were filming, and I competed

(17:40):
until the final with a broken.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Get an X ray.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
The producers could not make me get an X ray legally,
it was not it was in my contract. And you know,
you saw the bone like popping up and I was
icing it and heating it and the bruising was everywhere,
and they couldn't technically kick me off unless they saw
an X ray And everyone just kept being like, why
are you saying? I was like, well, first of all,
I'm getting paid great money. Second of all, I'm in
South Africa. And third of all this pain is surface pain,

(18:11):
like I am not leaving here. You know, I'm not
leaving here. You know I will compete with a broken
shoulder if it's broken. And then sure enough I got
surgery and was out of work for five months after
I got back.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
But I don't recommend competing with a broken bone.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
But it just it showed how much my will to
stay and be present and be grateful for a new
country and a new life experience. So it's amazing how
much stronger we are than we think we are.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
And to me, a.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Broken bone was like, eh, yeah, try looking at my
resume of twenty years of booze and drugs.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
That's more intense.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
And in Carolyn, I feel like that's probably had to
have gone through your head, especially on Survivor. You know,
in those days where you're hungry and stuff, you were
probably like, well, guess what, Like I've had you know
days that were you know, worse than this. You know,
what's twenty six days without eating? You know I can
do this type of thing. Did that kind of mindset,

(19:14):
you know, help you throughout the game.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
I mean I was a mess, to be honest, but
but I like here's here's I'll just be really let
me just be real with you. I can't be like
you know, I'll tell you what I thought. That's what
I thought it was going to be. Like I thought
it would be like.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
I've been through so much, look at me now.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
No, it literally was like, yes, I've been through so much,
I can do anything. No, it broke me down. But
the biggest thing is I started that game so confident
and so just I'm gonna be myself and I was
just so excited to like be my freaky self on
TV and like play this game.

Speaker 5 (19:59):
And as I I like, the further I got, it.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
Was like I just was like like my confidence was
just like cracking shattering, Like I just got like just
worn out and so but it wasn't like.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
A I you know what is wrong with me type
of thing.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
I was more so, I've done so much work on myself,
so I felt like why am I letting these people
get in my head? Why am I letting these bro
type like that I can't stand get in my head?
So I'm more so it was like I'm getting pissed
at myself or like I am astrona. Yes, So that's

(20:36):
what so it was a lot of like ups and downs,
and I'd have these moments where I was like, what.

Speaker 6 (20:40):
Screw them, and I'm gonna kid expiting, but it was
it was like, oh my gosh, I was like so
excited to be here and share myself and people are
literally looking at me like I'm nuts.

Speaker 5 (20:52):
So it it hurt. I'm not gonna lie and be
like it didn't hurt.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
And when I got to the end, I was like,
I wished I could have like just honed in on
like you and this is why I deserve it.

Speaker 5 (21:04):
But I was just very and that's what really killed
me afterwards, is.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
Like I am better than that, and I let these
idiots get in my head. That's really it. So I
wish I could have been like I kid, but no,
it'd hurt.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Like it crushed me so and I think it really
does do that, you know, on both of the shows,
it really does get you broken to your core. There
is you know, we and at least I've come across
a lot of addicts that talk about it. Support systems
are everything you know, through a through a journey and everything.

(21:42):
And I've seen it with both of you that you
know on the show off the show. You guys have
you know, great friends from these shows that you know
have your back that want to see the best for you.
But then there's also the journey of the show airing
and the stuff on searcial and all of that has there.

(22:03):
Do you feel like there's been like a ton of
for me? It seems like a ton of fans support
for both of you as far as your sobriety journeys.
What was it like kind of seeing the show. I
know Ryan, you alluded to it a little bit earlier,
but for for you, Carolyn, what was it you know,
seeing the show kind of highlight your journey and what

(22:23):
was the fan response?

Speaker 4 (22:26):
Well, first of all, I was like they when I
got cast, my whole plan was I'm going to be myself,
and I'm well aware that being myself terrifies some people
and I freaked people out. I'm a weirdo and all
that fun stuff. So I knew that, like I have
the potential to go on the show, I'm going to
be myself and they very they very well might edit
me to be that like wacky ass crazy, but I

(22:50):
was okay with it. I was like please, like I'm
pleased because that's me.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
And I won't ever be like No, that was in
the edit, but that's not.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Really who I am.

Speaker 5 (22:59):
No me, I'm kind of annoying sometimes, but whatever.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
So what I what I was scared of though I
was a little nervous, but I was ready for it,
just being the crazy one.

Speaker 5 (23:12):
I'm so grateful that they actually showed that.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Like I am more than just some one dimensional cartoon character.
They they start me out like and then you see
the oh wow, there's more to this person, and then
slowly it's like then you're I get to open up
about my story because I had been talking about my
crap from day one. But they really did a good
job editing, like even like my what would you call that?

Speaker 5 (23:36):
Like even just the what am I?

Speaker 4 (23:40):
What am I looking for? Just as me, like the
character development or whatever the heck. So it's just it
was really cool.

Speaker 5 (23:46):
What was the question? Even what are we talking about?

Speaker 1 (23:49):
No? Just the reception of uh, I know they ow
a little bit about your recovery journey, so was it
from the fans and everything?

Speaker 5 (23:59):
I had so much so I don't read.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
I don't read like the I literally if I did that.
And I had so much help too beforehand with from
my casting person was so she's like, what are you
going to do out there?

Speaker 5 (24:11):
Carolyn?

Speaker 4 (24:12):
You don't have your journal? You don't have and I'm like,
oh crab. So like she really took me down. And
I would say even more than other, like than other people,
because she knew, like, Okay, I I'm sober and I
have all this, you do you know what I'm saying.
So I feel like she took even like more special
care and she's like, what are you going to do
out there when this happens? And this, and just took

(24:34):
me through scenarios. But of course nothing can prepare you.
But I never read anything like did I see stuff online?
Of course I did, but I never would like search
my name and be like what do people think of me?

Speaker 2 (24:46):
No, No, don't do it.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
It's a deep dive and it's a one sided pull
the sack of despair.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
No, I don't do it.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, don't do it.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
But I have had so many people reach out to me.
I mean, I don't even check my DMS. I I can't.
It's too much. And I know that for my own
like sanity. And it's not that I like think I'm
better or just don't care about people. It just became
too much. But I was getting it because initially I
was responding to everybody because so many people and I

(25:16):
tell people this, I don't get like even when I
go to events and whatnot, I don't get like the
the what's I hate the word normal. I don't get
like what I think a lot of people get, which
is like, wow, that was a great move out there.

Speaker 5 (25:30):
I was really impressed by it.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
No, I get like, you know, my sister died from
an overdose, or I get I've been struggling with it.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
So I get this deep, deep stuff.

Speaker 4 (25:39):
And I'm a I share everything about my life on
social media on so every single thing that I share,
then people will then reach out to me and be like, Okay,
I'm struggling with this, that or the other.

Speaker 5 (25:51):
So I had got just flooded.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
With that, which that's what like. That's why we share
our stories. That's the whole purpose of it. That's why
I share every shitty thing that I've been through because
I want other people to know that they're not alone.
I don't ever want people to think that like my
life's perfect, that I have it all together. I will
openly say how messy and sloppy and a freaky weirdo

(26:15):
I am because it is fakes, Like you know what
I'm saying. We're not perfect, and even though I'm sober,
I wish I could be like, it's not all the time.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
So messy all the time. But the more we share
that side of it, ye, recovery. Isn't this like Christine,
you know, Oh, now I'm fixed and now life is
going to be amazing. No, It's like I think us
sharing that it is a constant battle with ourselves is

(26:50):
very relatable and honestly, like you're right.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Like some people when I see them at events or.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Whatever, like oh my god, you're so funny. You're so
fun But now that I'm sober on TV, it is waterworks.
Sometimes immediately when they have me, it's like I lost
my brother. You remind me of my brother, like and
I'm like, I take it all in and I'm so
grateful to connect with people like that. But I'm such
an EmPATH that like my spirit is like this because

(27:18):
I'm like I'm it can feel like I'm drowning at
certain times because I also want to say the right thing,
and I know there's no right or wrong thing to say.
But I guess whenever I just don't know what to say,
I just listen and let them process and just receive
that and give it back.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
But look at the being the ones on the shows
and like being able to process from the fans who
very admittedly well the fans won't admit this, but like
I will as a fan, Like there are some of
us in the community that go way across the line
and say things that they shouldn't and do things that

(27:57):
they shouldn't. But here you who are both able to
like process things that you know, fans are opening up
to you about. I think that's a really great thing.
And uh, you know, it's admirable that we're able to
to hear these stories. And I think it helps with
casting for both shows going forward, because you know, especially

(28:20):
with like All Stars now Ryan, it's not just you know,
people coming off the Real World season or their first season,
a survivor. You know, it could be someone who has
you know, you know, it's people.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
That are like have overcome illness, or have gone through
a divorce, or have lost a child, had a miscarriage,
like I'd like Love All Stars because most of us
had have had a lot of time to be off
reality TV, live their life, get their heart broken in
any which way, come back kind of a broken rag

(28:53):
doll and try to connect. And you know, obviously the
physical competition is what drives the show, but everyone just
kind of came back like, wow, they wanted me back,
and I am broken?

Speaker 2 (29:06):
What does this look like now?

Speaker 3 (29:08):
So I think the All Stars premise was really kind
of perfect, and me being sober was like the least
of the trauma, like collectively within the cast, it was.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Like, you know, it also humbled me.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
And you know, when you're in your own fields, you
think like your struggle is like the most exhausting being
in this skin, being in this brain, like, and then
you hear other people's stories and that's usually when I
tune back into like gratitude is when I'm like, all right,
you know I had a rock bottom, but that didn't
happen to me, and I don't know what I would
do if that happened to me, So it's humbling.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I do want to ask, cause there I've thought about
this over these last like especially premieres of shows in
Carolyn like this is I think it's fitting for you,
especially since you know, like I mentioned at the top
of the podcast. In a couple of months, here we'll
be seeing you start out on The Traders three in Scotland.

(30:06):
Do these recovery rooms do they kind of help you
get out and talk to different people that you meet
on these shows that are like completely different than you
did you kind of or maybe you've never thought of
it that way until I posed that question, But do
you think it kind of helps you since, like in
some of these, you know, different rooms and rehabs and stuff,

(30:30):
you're meeting people you would never meet if it weren't
for that circumstance.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
Wait, what's the question? No, Like, there's no I gotcha obviously,
or excuse me.

Speaker 4 (30:43):
Survivors people from all walk of life, and like, yeah,
there's no way in hell I'd ever be running into
ninety percent of them.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
Yeah, and same with Traders.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
You know my question?

Speaker 4 (30:52):
Okay, Like, no, I would never and so that is
it's amazing, Like.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
I would never. I was just gonna say something mean
and I'll not say it.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Never mind, you got my question though, because I when
I walk into my rooms, like I see people that
like I would never not even walk by in a
grocery store. Right, there's these people you hear from that.
You would never get that perspective or opinion or anything
if it weren't for that period of time every week
at a meeting. And I've kind of since I've been

(31:29):
going to meetings, I've thought about it and like it's
kind of a decent way to like help a social game,
to like get to talk to different people that you
would never interact with, like anything like that. You know, Ryan,
I know it's been easy for you on these shows,
Like you even sat a couple of weeks ago on
our podcast. You could talk to a wall if you
had to. You know, have you kind of felt like

(31:55):
have you taken anything from like your your recovery journey,
like into these challenge houses or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Yeah, I think my patience I've learned to have like
way more grace. I don't go to meetings very often.
I did a lot. I've been sober two and a
half years. In the first six months I was going
to outpatient meetings like every day, five days a week,
and that was really important for me to like transition

(32:25):
into this new life. But I do love meetings, and
I think I have learned that as much as I
am this person that wants to relate to so many people,
I realize I'm really a judgmental fucker. Oh, Like, Like
I sometimes will sit in a meeting, You're like, in

(32:49):
my head, you're never gonna get sober. You're gonna keep
fucking relapsing over and over again. The sky is falling, chicken,
little like you're victim perpetually, Like you like this isn't
gonna happen for you, and like I had those moments
and then i leave the meeting feeling angry where I'm like,
why the fuck were you judging that person? Like you
know what I mean, everyone's recovery is different, and just
because you never relapse doesn't mean that other people have

(33:11):
the family, the finances, the job, the stuff, you know.
So I think going into the challenge house, I just
take that I have to get like I have to
flick that ego off my shoulder and be like, you're
no better than any of these people. We're all humans
trying to figure it out, and we're all broken trying
to fix things all the time. So I have more

(33:34):
patience than I used to and my desire to be combative,
even though my fuse is shorter because I don't have
alcohol to numb out that thing. I take a beat
and I walk away more. And I didn't used to
do that. I used to just react. And now I'm like,
it's more important for me to go to the toilet
and sit on the toilet for twenty minutes and calm

(33:55):
down and come back correct then give a reality television
moment that people are gonna love.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
It's just you know, I gotta be.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
That's it. That's a great point. I mean, what for
your mental sanity? What's more important a meme or a
gift that people are gonna tweet out forever, or like
you going to a safe place with no cameras for
twenty minutes to just decompress, calm down. And it's similar
like just in everyday life, like I tell you know,

(34:28):
my support system all the time, Like no, I'm not
mad at you, but I need a fucking break and
I need to myself and just chill out. It doesn't
mean I'm mad at anybody, it doesn't mean I'm upset.
But if I don't have my alone time that fus
that you mentioned, Ryan, Oh.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, ill three of us from my from what I've
gathered so far in the past ten minutes.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I think we're all huge givers. Yeah, yeah, we give
a lot.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Even if our battery is completely empty, We'll still give
because we want people to feel good. We also want
people to feel inspired by us. And then not giving yourself,
not giving yourself grace or allowing yourself to be silent,
is like, it's it's torture honestly. So you can't give

(35:17):
if your tank is empty, because then you're gonna feel
resentful for giving what you didn't think you had it
inside of you. So yeah, I think taking taking time
for ourselves is the key and.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Loving ourselves more.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
You know, all yeah, it's that, it's you know, just that.
I always had heard it too, like the the you know,
doing things for yourself, and I was always so confused
by that. So it's it must be nice to be
able to do these shows for yourself, you know. Obviously

(35:57):
the money may be for other people in your lives too,
but uh, the experiences for yourself, what a what a
nice thing to do? I do? I was curious because
you know, you both obviously had mentioned like you you
have people in your support system, Uh, you know who
who drink or partaken visive choice. I guess what would

(36:23):
what would your advice be for for someone out there
who's listening and this, you know, these next couple of
things I've I've thought about don't really have much to
do with the game shows per se. This is more
just life in general. What would you say for somebody
who's like kind of struggling to like go out socially
and have a great time. Because I can still see

(36:44):
that both of you are those people who can still
have fun. So Carolyn, how would you what would you think?

Speaker 5 (36:51):
It's a learning experience.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
It truly is, and it's changed for me at all throughout.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
My journey of recovery. Early on, I'm not going to bars,
and like, heck no, that.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Was not I couldn't. There's absolutely no way I couldn't.
And just like you said about I didn't know who
the hell I was. I remember I cut my hair off,
I dyed it dark, and I only wore black and
white because I was like, I'm not, No, I didn't
know who I was because I associated like the crazy
Carolyn Wild with like being like on drugs and drunk.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
So I was like, I don't know who the hell
I am.

Speaker 4 (37:28):
Well, you know, I realized I still am a crazy freak,
but I don't have to like use drugs to be one,
and that's amazing. So it's a process of me. I
had to truly figure out what I even liked and
what brought me joy and you know what I like
to dance. So it's like if it don't matter, I'll
be at a wedding bar. And just like you were

(37:51):
saying about, I can't be around people like blackout drunk,
like don't be coming up near me. Like I was
just at a concert because I love live music. It
was getting to be too many, like people like too
close to me. I was dancing next to the garbage can.
I don't care, but I still wanted was that where
anybody was. No, I was literally next to the trash can.

(38:14):
I don't give a shit because why am I there
for the music and to dance? So I don't need
to be like a part of like the cool kids
in like the group of the dancing Nope.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
So it's been like.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
A journey of like what can I handle what is
like feels right for me, which can be risky for
people because it's like I don't want it to be
like go put yourself and environments that are risky, but
for myself, I had to kind of like test it out,
and early on, hell no, did I want to be
in that environment at all. But I slowly was like
learned how to just live again. And the best feeling

(38:49):
in the fricking world. I say this all the time,
is being able to be sober and be this freaky
and be able to just go and have fun and
let it out. It's like people, so many people when
I'm dancing or they'll be like, oh my gosh, you
like they think I'm drunk or something, and I'm like, no,
I'm just fun.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, yeah, Ryan, true love. I know you're in, you know,
one of the biggest cities in the world, so I'm
sure there are you know, much more resources for you know,
different activities that don't involve drinking or drugs or things
like that. But for you, you know, what have been
some things that have helped you like get out socially

(39:32):
and you know, still have a social life and stuff.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Well, I'm kind of the exception of the rule. I
don't I'm not going to give advice to say what
I did. I pretty much did everything my counselor and
my therapist said not to do early on in recovery
because I just wanted to rip the band aid off.
I didn't want to like tiptoe around. I went to weddings,
I went to brunches where it was boozy. I did

(39:56):
a reality show six and actually I was six months sober. Josh, yeah, yeah.
But I did a lot of things that were like
raising eyebrows with everyone around me, and I think people
expecting me to relapse and also being like, well, if
you do, you know, it's okay. I just wanted to

(40:16):
prove everyone wrong, and so it became a competition with myself.
I have no idea why I'm on a show called
The Challenge, so any any like monument in life that
I could do sober? I left feeling like, all right, okay,
all right, you did that. And I think if you
can do a reality show where people are drinking around

(40:38):
you in large amounts, that's kind of like sobriety on steroids.
It's like you can like manage to keep your sanity
and push through the uncomfort. Everything is uncomfortable in sobriety,
but it gets so much more comfortable. And insight that
I had that I have now is like in that

(41:00):
I would not have had six months deep insight that
you have is fourteen fifteen, sixteen years. However many years,
like I look forward to that milestone and being like,
oh that was just a that was just a blip
on the radar. I look forward to being alive with
more sober time than I was in non sober time,

(41:20):
you know.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
So and I just I just feel good. I just
feel good. Every day.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
I feel the best I've ever felt. I'm forty three.
I feel better than I did in my twenties. You know,
I can actually get three hours of sleep and still
push through work in a different way than I could
when I was hung over on three hours to sleep
or whatever. You know, It's amazing how much you can

(41:46):
get done in a day.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
It's amazing.

Speaker 5 (41:49):
You know.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
I actually have a lot of time in my hands
in general, Like if I think about it, and I
have more money than I I was always like, you know,
crying poverty, and now I'm like, oh, you can go
on this trip.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
You know, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
I clearly haven't won eight seasons of the challenge, but
even if I did, that's not going to last me
my entire life. But it's just like everything is such
a blessing my connections with people, not worrying the people.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
In my life anymore.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
It's like it just feels good to be a human
and I'm proud of myself.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yeah, Rah, you just said so much that I like
through my so I'm a compulsive gambler in recovery, and
we talk about all the time at the time, like
you can get back, the money, you can get back,
like the not addictive attitude and all that in pieces, right,

(42:44):
but that time like never comes back, and like I
see it with both like see how saying yes to
things in life, whether it's like doing another show or
just like saying yes to that trip or you know,
that birthday party or whatever it is, big or small,
because it was just like, no, I'm good, I'll be

(43:08):
by myself. I don't want to do that. I don't
want to do that. The same like just yes to
life in general. And then the well you brought up
with getting uh, getting things done, Carolyn. I don't know
if you've experienced this, but I've been having a lot
of days lately at work where I'm like I'm getting

(43:29):
so much done. I don't know what this feelings like,
because it was just like let's let's bring in the vice, like,
let's just focus on that and not do Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yeah, it was always an interruption, And now it's like
I literally finished everything on my notepad by like noon,
minus this podcast that I was laid for.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
I apologize to both. It was not my notepad. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Okay, okay, Hey, I have no pads too. I'm old
school like that.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
I get that, I guess. So to bring it back
a little bit for the reality TV perspective, you know,
what would you guys say as far as like and
I don't know, there's obviously not a perfect answer to this,
especially because there's not a perfect answer to anything and

(44:24):
addiction and recovery. But is there? I guess if someone
is looking to do one of these shows. I know, Carolyn,
for you, you had been years sober before you had
gotten on survivor what would you say as someone who's
like going through recovery, Like if someone's out there applying, now,

(44:47):
what do you think like the ideal you know, like
multiple years sober before you try and get on the show.

Speaker 5 (44:53):
Or I don't see.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
Everyone's different, and I truly honor and respect that, Like
what you did, girl, I wouldn't like, I wouldn't have
been able to do that, and I don't.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Think a lot white knuckling. It was definitely a little
white and nuckily.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
I would never and I wouldn't run like, I wouldn't
recommend it, And like you said, I don't think anyone
would like.

Speaker 5 (45:15):
But I don't. I'm not like, do you know what
I'm saying. I don't like.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
But that just shows how different everybody is. So it's like,
but yes, if I were like to just uh give
some cookie cutter recommendation, I'd be like, hell no, because
my ass thought that after because I think I had
like thirteen fourteen years when I filmed.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
I was like, I'm ready, I've been through it all,
and you know what, I doubt it was a mess.

Speaker 4 (45:43):
It was, But that's like the beauty of this too,
as I've learned, because I remember, I was like, I'm
gonna do so much work on myself the first year,
I'm never gonna have to do shit again.

Speaker 5 (45:55):
I really thought, that is that embarrassing good? It's true.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
I thought that, like, I'm gonna fill myself with AA,
with therapy, with everything. So Pope, I read every book
I did so much work on myself that first year
that I was like, let.

Speaker 5 (46:11):
Me just get it out of the way and I'll
be fixed.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
I truly believe that, until I realized that like, life
happens and I continue. Whoah, I just learned that I actually,
you know, I know how to deal with things now.
But just because I'm sober, it doesn't mean that shit
doesn't happen. It doesn't mean life doesn't happen. I've just
learned how to deal with it. But I thought that
I would like fix myself so great that I would
never have a problem again.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
I love you.

Speaker 5 (46:36):
I need to say that.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I love you.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
I knew this was going to be a match made
in heaven. I love her.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
I love her already. Yeah, got it, I get it.
I see you from one maniac to the next.

Speaker 5 (46:51):
Like I'm not. I'm not like, oh you have fifteen years. Yeah,
I still struggle, and I.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
Make sure to tell people that I don't want people
to think because I hate going to meetings where people.

Speaker 5 (47:04):
Are like and the promises came true. Yeah, stuff does
come true and it's great and it can be great.
But just because like, it's not a guarantee that your
life is going to be wonderful and great. We have
to look I always said when I was working in
the jails, I would say, I truly believe that addicts
are people who just like they can't deal with their
fucking problems. It's like, uh oh.

Speaker 4 (47:27):
Shit gets hard, shickets, I don't want to feel it,
don't want to deal with it. So I have made
it like a like a life mission of mine, like
that if I am going through something, I'm going to
feel every second of it. And a lot of people
will be like, she's so emotional, and why does she
cry so much? She's not mentally ready for so And

(47:47):
I just said this to me that they were worried
about me on Survivor because I cried so much, and
I'm like, well, get ready to worry again, because you know, no,
I said, I would think that something is wrong with
you because you don't ever cry and you don't ever
show emotions. I kept it in and this was like
a deleted scene where I was explaining this to someone.

(48:08):
I hid my feelings. I didn't talk about this stuff
for so long. So you know what, now that I
know how to, it's gonna be coming up. And it
may not be pretty, girl, but no, I struggle. I
have hard days, but I make sure to feel every
second of it. You know how many cameos all do
We're I'll be like, I remember I was moving out

(48:28):
of my house and I was going through all this crap,
and I'm like, you know what, I'm like, I was
trying to hide in the corner because I'm embarrassed right
now because I have shit everywhere, because I'm literally moving
out of my house right now, and shit is hard.
And I'm supposed to be telling you happy birthday, so
just give me a minute because I can't be real

(48:49):
because I'm giving my fake voice right now because I'm
just going through a.

Speaker 5 (48:52):
Lot, and I needed to tell you that.

Speaker 4 (48:54):
You probably didn't need to know it, but I wouldn't
have been able to actually do this cameo without telling you.
So now, happy birthday, And I had to tell them
it was just I love that.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
That's I mean, they want that though, too.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
That's why people love you is like the rawness, you know,
just like.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Listen, I just I woke up. I shit the bed.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
I haven't had a drink in two and a half years,
but somehow I had diarrhea and I will yes, yeah,
I love that.

Speaker 4 (49:22):
Yeah, don't tell me about your perfect life or your
perfect shit.

Speaker 5 (49:26):
Tell me.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
And I know not everyone struggles, and I know not
everybody has like trauma, but I like the fucked up
people who do.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, it's also you mentioned how you know it's you know,
the promises do happen, but it's like it's not just
like you wake up, flip a switch and things are better.
Like if if these recovery uh, you know, if these
addictions were easy to recover from, everyone would be doing it.

(49:55):
There would be thousands of people in each room every
single night, but there's not. And why is that is
because it's not easy to do, because it takes work.
And some of the people who I've met in these
rooms are incredibly successful, are like, this is the hardest
thing I've ever done in my life, hands down, And

(50:16):
you know it's not it's not just something that even
you know, we talk about it too, where you may
be feeling and you haven't done something yet, but that
doesn't mean that tomorrow you won't. And I think that's
been great for me personally too, to like, hone in

(50:37):
on today, don't focus on like six years from now
or whatever. Ryan, I see you nodding along with that.
Has that been kind of a mentality for you as well,
to not like continuously focus on the future as much
and living.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yeah, yes, because that's I was such a worry word.
I don't know how I was such a like worry
war while I was using because it's exactly just I
think what it is too is the longer we're sober,
the more we realize we can take more on. So
we do take more on and so that more becomes

(51:14):
the new normal. But then we know there's more than that.
So we're taking on a lot of things, and sometimes
the cup is too full and it feels overwhelming and
we're like, oh wait, I kind of want to backtrack,
Like I want to go back to where like less
was satisfying to me, but now that I know that
more is possible, it's like that itch where you just

(51:37):
want to put more in your life. So it is
okay to disconnect and turn your phone off and get
off social media and you know, go to I mean, honestly,
for me, walking if I'm feeling an itch or I'm
feeling that feeling of like I just walk until I

(51:57):
am done walking, and I could end up on the
upper side, I can end up in Brooklyn, I will
just walk and until that it has gone or until
I'm physically exhausted.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
And sometimes I've even had to take an.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
Uber home because I'm like, how the fuck did I
end up almost in Staten Island?

Speaker 2 (52:13):
That it was worth it because I walked through it.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
And for me, physical movement is what keeps my mind
from like getting stuck. So I don't even know what
the fucking question was, but you answered this exercise for
me has been a huge, huge relief, just just movement,

(52:37):
moving my body.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Yeah, that's that's perfect because you did answer my original
question and dump it places. I was going to say,
you know, I didn't want to forget because Caroen, you
touched on something that's been so important for me. Is
like when you know, when I have any close for
family who know what I'm going through, and they ask like,

(53:03):
what have some of the most rewarding things been, like
aside from like the you know, getting away from like
the lying and the the vice or choice, it's like
that feeling of being able to feel again, like because
it's gone when we're using. So I just wanted to
touch on that before I asked you. But like for

(53:24):
you when you're feeling low. What is something that you
turn to? I know you have a son, so do
you kind of get wrapped up in his activities? What's
what's I.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
Don't distract I fucking feel can I swear here? I
fucking feel it, and I am somebody who I want
to feel it all, okay, and I don't want to
distract with I've had like a lot of life changes.
And they say like after survivor after it was done filming,
like I literally left a relationship, I moved, I left

(53:57):
my job, Like I literally did every life change that
they tell you don't do within the first year.

Speaker 5 (54:02):
Well, I'll do them all. And it was hard and.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
It's so easy like when like shit's hard to just
distract or like okay, I am in a real or
I'm used to be in a relationship, so I'm gonna
find another one. No, I literally have felt every single feeling,
and I look I enjoy it. I look forward to
it because I need to heal myself. So a part
of like I sit in the discomfort not too long.

(54:30):
But I mean, do you know what I'm saying. I
really look at as it as like a blessing that
I'm like actually feeling stuff now. But it's like I
don't want to stick in it, stay stuck in it
too long. But I reach out, I talk to people,
I do support groups.

Speaker 5 (54:44):
I do. I love like the individualized stuff.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
So okay, i'm struggling with this, that or the other,
then I'm gonna go to that type of a group.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
I remember my first I think it was second year sober.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
I was going to like all these random ass meetings
just for and I didn't even have like a spending problem,
but I was like going to debtors anonymous just.

Speaker 5 (55:04):
For like girl, but I love that shit.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
But oh yes, like I if I'm struggling and I
need to see a therapist, I do therapy or I
do a support for I never I don't say stuff
for too long, but I don't.

Speaker 5 (55:19):
I look at it.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
As such like a it's a gift.

Speaker 5 (55:23):
It's a gift now to feel it.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
So I might be hurting, and I might be, but
like nope, I okay, And recently I've allowed myself to
just you know what, I'm not exactly where I want
to be with like my with uh just some my
healing journey right now. But it's like you know what,
that's okay. I can't like act like I don't feel

(55:45):
this way. I feel this way and that's okay. And
my dad is such a great just role model for
me and just that support of like Kierlin where when
I get stuck or where I'm like, but this is
so hard, He'll be like he literally lists it out
for me and be like, this is everything you've accomplished
in the last year.

Speaker 5 (56:05):
So I started. I'm a journaler anyway, but I'll go
and I'll kind of just.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
Go through and just write good things, positive things, because
it's so easy for like something then bad to happen
or something have a bad day and then.

Speaker 5 (56:18):
Be like everything else is horrible. So I have my
little list and I do.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
I have like my little gratitude list, and I have
to because I feel so great when my dad reminds
me of that stuff. So I have to do it
for myself now. But like, no, I'm fucked up, but
I like I talk about it. And I hate when
people will be like, what's wrong with you? You cry
so much? Or that's not normal or that's not it's me,
And like I cry over a lot of different things.

Speaker 5 (56:44):
I'll cry if I see a cardinal in the tree.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Yeah, I cried planning this week. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
I've really appreciated this because we've had so many different
angles and ways that we've talked about this think a
really good way to wrap this up. I'd love to
hear from you both, and Carolyn will start with you.
What would be because I'm sure there are going to
be listeners, you know, fansy, you both who are out

(57:14):
there who are unfortunately still struggling in addiction by themselves
or you know, they don't they feel like they don't
have anyone you know, what would your your words of encouragement,
your advice be to those that are struggling?

Speaker 4 (57:30):
Yeah, no, no, I'm kidding, not no, I was kidding. No,
you're not alone. And that's again that's why I share
my stuff. That's why I can't stand just people who
are perfect. I can't stand you're not alone. We all
or that person like that you compare yourself to, or
you think has it all together, like they don't.

Speaker 5 (57:52):
We're all human. It I'm struggling with this. What was
the question?

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Here you go, I'm my love.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
Oh yeah, my advice to those that might be struggling yes,
prepare to get uncomfortable. There's nothing cute about recovery. You
have to break the cycle in some way. So for me,
that was signing myself up to a New York City
public detoc center for six days where I was girl

(58:23):
interrupted with no shoelaces, wearing scrubs, looking at people tweak out.
And that was the most uncomfortable six days of my life.
But that was the interruption that stopped the bullshit. So
I had to be so so just open wounding in
my life that I had enough with myself. I was

(58:46):
done with the bullshit. People were starting to catch on.
I wasn't charming my way out of shit the way
that I was. It was getting out of control. And
what I had to do in the biggest word that
comes to my brain is surrender. You have to fucking
surrender to it. There's nothing embarrassing about being honest. And
for me, I felt like I can't pend my rent.

(59:07):
What am I gonna do? I'm gonna lose my job.
People are gonna you know, It's just like I wanted
to tap dance my way through it, and there's no
tap dancing. You literally, you gotta be like mirror you're
a piece of shit. Maybe you are, but let's work
through this, you know, like gotta strip down everything and

(59:28):
let yourself be taken care of because there are other
people that have gone through this before you that will
take care of you.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
It is a really beautiful community.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
And maybe not everyone in the sober community is going
to be for you, because I've met some interesting characters
that I'm like, eh, but people in general that are
in recovery love you and want to see you succeed
and have wisdom and insight that you will too, will
have one day. And so just receive the love and surrender.

(59:59):
Surrender you ego, because there's no being right in recovery,
there's not.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
I'm jealous.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
Can I say something so I can sound like him?
Because I'm like, I gotta sound cute. So I agree
with everything you said about the surrender. And one of
the things I tell people too, it's like it's not
going to get any better for you, Like we know
it sucks, Like you know what I mean, what do
you have to go back to?

Speaker 5 (01:00:25):
You know it's going to be hell. You know it's
going to be a nightmare.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
But I myself like tried to trick myself so many
times and make it work or make well.

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
If I just do this or this or this and
then I'll.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
Be able to drink this way, or if I just
don't know, it failed every single time. And I get
that we have to go through it and YadA, YadA, YadA,
but we can't do this alone. And I know a
lot of people will say like, AA ain't for me.
And you know, there's days where I feel like that,
and I don't go nearly, Like I'll go shit twice
a year or maybe even it just depends on what

(01:00:58):
I'm going through, or sometimes I'll go.

Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
Once a month for a while, or you know what
I'm saying. It's not like that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Anytime you go, you leave feeling I'm so grateful I
did that for myself. Yeah, even if you don't even talk,
even if you just listen the whole time, it's just.

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Not like it was early on, you know, and like,
I'm not doing that, But this is what I say.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
We can't do it alone.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
And so it's like, even even if you're not vibing
with the meeting the people, you're like, I hate the
twelve steps we need. It's I don't know any other
like support groups that you can go and meet sober people.

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
I just don't. They're everywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
So it's like, if you we can't do it alone,
so you're gonna need friends. Go to a damn meeting,
even if you hate everything. I'll say it, even if
you hate everything about those damn twelve steps, go to
meet people, stay after do the little that that I
was playing on a softball league. I hate softball, but
I had like I had to become a part like

(01:01:56):
I had to I gonna do. Where am I gonna
meet people?

Speaker 5 (01:02:00):
I don't know anywhere else? So if or oh, I.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Went to a meeting and I'm not connecting with anyone,
go to a damn another one.

Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
You know what I'm saying. You can't.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
You can't do it alone, and you're not gonna stay sober.
If you don't have fun and you don't enjoy it,
who the hell would and why am I so close to?

Speaker 5 (01:02:19):
You're not gonna stay sober. I know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
I'm always like that's why to do my cameos, and
I'm like, I've got to stop doing that. You if
we don't find fun and find enjoyment, you're not gonna
stay sober. So learn like maybe you don't know who
the hell you are, Maybe you don't know what you
like anymore. Okay, start trying new things, start figuring it out, or.

Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
You won't stay sober if it sucks and is boring.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
So I think that was both.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
I had no sex drive.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
Now I was just gonna say, I like had no
sex drive for probably almost two years, and I just
finally started getting back on the wagon. And sober sex
is different as we know, and sex is my new thing.
Like I had a lot of sex in Europe, Like
I was pretty celibate for two years, and now I
am enjoying it. So things that you think that you

(01:03:13):
hate at the beginning of your recovery or that you
have no desire interest to do, like your body is
healing and your body has to like put itself back together.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
And for me, my sex.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
I had so much sex when I was fucked up
that like I'd burnt out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
I felt like, oh, you know what, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Just gonna get a dog and I'm never gonna maybe
I'll remind myself to masturbate like once a year. And
it took two and a half years, and I literally
stella got her fucking grew back like in the past
couple months, So good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Be patient. Be patient. It'll come back. Things come back.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
It just takes longer for certain people. So maybe you
will like softball.

Speaker 4 (01:03:52):
Hell, well, I hate you, don't girl, and like the
challenge tearfies me and I'll.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Love you on it. I would live to see you
on a building jumping off. I would love it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:03):
That's literally what I was like.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
I don't want to be like known for on Survivor,
but I sucked at everything challenge related or like anything physical.

Speaker 5 (01:04:12):
I was falling.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Well, it's it's one of those things like I've heard
in my rooms, like find your fit. You know, Carolyn
was forced onto the softball team. You don't love doing it,
but like it gives you activities to do. Yes, people
that are like minded, who were going for the same
goal of staying so and my like I would say

(01:04:38):
to any Westerner out there, it's really it makes things
unnecessarily hard to struggle through it alone. It really does.
Like you don't realize it when you're going through it.
You think it's easier to not tell your family, not
tell your friends, not go to a support group, not
go to a twelve step room. But it makes it

(01:04:58):
much much harder to go through. So I would recommend
you know, finding finding your fit, finding your people, you know,
like Carolyn said, even if you don't like it, you know,
go to a different room. Find your people.

Speaker 5 (01:05:14):
You will.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
It takes Like I'm a freak, I still like and
I'm selective, so it's like, you know what, it just
it takes time. It takes time, So you will find it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
You will, and you know, like you both said, and
especially like it was highlighted on All Star Score for Ryan,
like find find your friends that not only support you,
but like celebrate the fact that you're you're bettering your
way of life and they're not like, oh you're sober,
Like that's lame. Like you want to surround yourself with

(01:05:46):
people who are happy that you're prioritizing yourself and bettering yourself.
So I am incredibly I'll continue with the G train.
I am incredibly grateful that we had this conversation. I
think it will help a lot of listeners. I know
it's not our typical episodes that we have here on

(01:06:08):
the podcast, but I appreciate you both taking the time
to speak to me about this. I think we had
a lot of fun and I think I think, just
maybe I may have matched up a new reality TV friendship.
So I'm very happy about that as well. Agreed, Ryan,
where can our listeners check you out and everything you're

(01:06:29):
up to?

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
My Instagram is Ryan Keyo five. My Twitter is Ryan
Keyo five, which has mostly been inactive until recent months.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
I got Facebook. I'm probably the first Ryan Ko.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
I don't know, you'll see my cheesy challenge picture as
my profile picture. So if you see a cheesy Ryan
looking tough flexing, that that's me.

Speaker 5 (01:06:55):
But yeah, I did mean to make that phase. I
hate Facebook, and I'm like, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
But like I have older relatives and like, you know,
they just need to know them alive.

Speaker 5 (01:07:05):
Yes, So.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
That is you know what, That is what the people
at Facebook need to make their new slogan, Like, that's
what's true.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
People that were wondering about their gay great nephew.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Ye's so true.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
I could do the same for me and Ryan, if
memory serves me right. You also joined a lot of
your MTV counterparts on OnlyFans, Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
I did?

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
I did, honestly, Well, listen, I don't have like a
following like a lot of the New Kids but the
most frees.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
The why no No.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
I was with a lot of people that were like
a decade plus younger, and like they're so they grew
up with social media and just making a coin in
every which way, and they were like, after we filmed
forty they're like, just do an OnlyFans like, what's the
worst thing that can happen if no one subscribes?

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
No one's going to know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
So I did it, and you know, I'm not like
killing it, but I'm I am okay to say no
to certain production jobs because I'm like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Oh I got a tip, and you know what, I'm
forty three.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
If you want to look at my feet or my butt, like,
I'm not doing porn. It's literally pictures that I took
of myself in a comfortable environment with my iPhone. If
you want me to, like, you know, get a pedicure
and tip me a hundred bucks, let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Why you know, I don't feel bad about it.

Speaker 5 (01:08:39):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
I think it's that because I've been telling one of
my friends, I'm like, just do only.

Speaker 5 (01:08:46):
He's like, no, I do this in theater stuff. So
he's like I can't.

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
But I was like, you practically post half nude pictures
all over Instagram.

Speaker 5 (01:08:55):
You It's so I'm like, what do you It's like
the stigma with it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
People here only fans, and it scares them. It's true,
so you you have not as your and that's the
thing too. And I even forget this that it doesn't
need to be It could be anything. It can be
your feet, it can be it's not necessarily people. I
think a lot of people assume that it's like the
worst of the worst stuff, or not even worse. That's

(01:09:20):
a bad I do think a lot of people think
that it's I do right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Well and as I mean, you know how many dick
picks I've sent that like went into the ether of
nothing without a coin sure, And also like I'm not
showing my face, and granted I have tattoos all over,
so like if you see my body and you recognize
the tattoo, you know it's me. But I'm It's also
like kind of been body positive for me because I'm

(01:09:45):
such a skinny guy, and that's like a big point
of contention on a show like the Challenge, I'm with
all these muscleheads that are twice my size, and so
I've kind of learned to like embrace the fact that
I'm I have a fast metabolism, I'm a skinny guy.
I'm not as big as the average show. But like
you know, someone out there in the universe is like,

(01:10:05):
I like your small butt, I like your big penis
you know, get it?

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Yeah, Ryan, good for you. I look. I have heard
over the years doing this podcast for the challenge, primarily
that a lot of your your your castmates make a
hefty coin from that website. So get get your bag, Ryan.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
Yeah, it's a small bag, but it's cute. It's bonus
money is when I'm looking at it, you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Know, there it is there it is. Yeah, Carolyn, where
can our listeners check you out and everything you're up too?

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
Can I like how can I?

Speaker 5 (01:10:44):
Can you just write it down somewhere like can it
go across?

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Yes? I can tag it absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
Bad at this you all, like know when you have
a five on yours, I would never remember that. Mine's
all weird, like I have it's the way Instagram everything's
Carolyn Wiger w ig Are. But my Instagram is all
like because I still wanted the Carolyn Rose, so I
have like zero's as the o's, So it's like, no
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
Caroline, because I want to do a screenshot to send Wes.
I want I want us to double team and give
me a give me something. I give them what give
like something cute for Wes?

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Oh, oppose for us?

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Then I need to screenshot.

Speaker 5 (01:11:27):
Can I do something?

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Yes? You have to make a noise so it turns
to your camera.

Speaker 5 (01:11:40):
Don't good? I have one of these.

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
I'm a fan, so like I eight, so don't There's
nothing weird about this right now?

Speaker 5 (01:11:48):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
He's gonna be like, she did.

Speaker 5 (01:11:50):
The thing in that, so tell him I didn't. But
like I, I love the show