Ep. 208 The Challenge 40 Battle of the Eras Episode 19 Recap

We crown our winners!!!

-Congrats Jordan Jenny and Rachel
-Derek and Michele's amazing seasons
-Kyland Tori and bananas journeys on 40
-Checkpoint discussions
-And much more

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
What's going on, everybody? And welcome back to another episode
of the Challenge and Addicts podcast, where we are here
to break down the Challenge forty Battle the Era's episode
nineteen End of an Era Part two and holy shit,
did they get creative with the episode title for this one.
My name is Josh Green. You can find us on

(00:22):
all social media platforms at Challenge Fan Pod. Wherever it
is you're listening to this episode, Please rate, review, subscribe
so more Challenge fans can listen to our podcast. And
of course I'm here with a guest as I cannot
break down all of the madness, frustration, a lot of

(00:46):
somewhat negative feelings, but a few positive things going on here.
Austin is off in Cabo on a family vacation, so
I had to bring in a great guest to crown
some winners of the Challenge forty Battle of vi eras
you may know him from all of his content on YouTube,

(01:07):
his patreon at angel Cake Entertainment, the Great Drew Angel
and Drew how you doing.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm doing well.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
And when we have to crown winners, we have to
crown way more winners than what we were expecting from
the beginning.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Of the season way more than what we were told.
That's definitely one of the things I'm upset about.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
But yeah, we will, we will get to that that journey.
But yeah, we we have eight people left at this point,
and you know, they all get highlighted here in this
episode in one way or another. And we find out
right from the junk it was almost like a voiceover

(01:55):
type thing from TJ. We don't really see him saying it.
Lot have to the contestants. At this point in the episode,
we find out that the karma vote is going to
be worth two checkpoints worth of points. Now, I really
wish and I've said this for a long long time,

(02:19):
whether it's in Survivor and Big Brother, most of these games,
aside from the Traders, most of these games operate at
its best when the players have the rules and the
most information. I just wish they knew how important the
karma points were going to be.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
But that's just me. What were you What were your
thoughts when we hear this at the very beginning of
the episode that they're going to be worth two checkpoints.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
I mean, I understand where they were coming from with
this Karma vote, and like wanting everybody to have some
form of in not choosing the winner, but having a
hand of making like a twist like they want for
they have forty contestants, thirty two are not going to
make it to the final, but they want to be

(03:12):
able to reuse their confessionals and have them have some
sort of take on the season if they don't have
a huge impact themselves on the show. But I'm still
of the thing of what you do in the regular
season should be completely separated from what comes in the

(03:33):
final and that's the same thing with like and it's
not even like the what was happening in the season
because as we see, eight players get like knocked off
in the beginning first two episodes, so they were in
the house for what less than a week, and so
that really hurts Kylon, Jenny and Michelle, who don't have

(03:54):
as strong of connections with those eight players of Brandon, Kelly,
Ann and Katie Like they'd never even talked to them before.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
So it's frustrating.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
I wish they would have used the Karma points in
a way of possibly using them as the double elimination
at the end of the season, right before heading into
the finals, saying that you don't have good karma, So
the lowest karma vote getters for the men and the
women have to face off against each other head to
head in an elimination to get into the final, to

(04:26):
where that would ultimately affect who could possibly make it
into the final, rather than it counting for I don't
remember what it was, but it's like a fifth more
than a fifth of your final score, and it ultimately
comes down to past relationships, not even stuff that happens
on this season.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
It comes down to pass the relationships. But then, like
you said, they're with having forty contestants on this season,
there's naturally going to be people who didn't even talk
to each other on the show. Yeah, so I do
find it intriguing with what you said where, you know,

(05:06):
make it something that affects the last elimination. Make it
something that affects the you know, that last daily or something.
I feel like that could have been much better as
opposed to all this like unknown that we have going
on here in the you know, we talked about it

(05:29):
last week with part one, like Jordan's dominating here. But
then like luckily, until we find out that it's only
worth a fifth, Like what if they made the karma
vote worth half, then like everything could have been completely
out of sync. So I don't know. I think it

(05:50):
was just a mess here.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
But and even talking about Jordan and the Karma vote,
some people didn't even use the karma vote for being
They didn't use the karma vote as like I disliked
this person. It was more when it come to Jordan specifically,
was he's so good he doesn't need as much help

(06:12):
in the final, which came to be true. But what
if he didn't get second place on the coin counting.
What if he got last place in the karma vote
to where now him and Derek because there got eight
and he got maybe two, and then he gets fourth
place on the coin counting that theoretically could have tied

(06:35):
them and Jordan could have dominated getting six first place
finishes out of seven, got one fourth place because of
the overnight portion, and then didn't get as many votes
because people viewed it as possibly advantage or disadvantage, not
you are directly voting for who you basically want to
see win at the end of this, so vote for

(06:57):
how you want. They just thought of like, well, if
this is going to help them in the final somehow,
Jordan doesn't need as much help. Then that that could
have been where Derek and Jordan tied, which I'm not
saying that's the worst thing in the world, but then
we could have had what the four champions at the
end of this thing where it was supposed to be
one person in one person like it just so many

(07:19):
things could have went so far off the rails in
all of this, and it comes down to the Karma
vote being it just was weird. It shouldn't have been
a huge factor in the final in the first place.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
In my opinion, I completely agree. It's just this matter
of like, of so much confusion, of so little information,
and again this show, there is really only one show
in our universe that operates the best on that idea
of little information and things going on, and it's The Traders.

(07:54):
But that's how the rules of the show are and
that's how it maximizes its center entertainment value. But with
the challenge with Big Brother everything else, I have always
thought that when the rules are best explained to the players,
you get people like Wes ct Cam Bananas all of

(08:19):
the game, Michelle, you get Rachel Robinson. They're all able
to maximize the game because then they know the rules
that they are playing within in what they have to
focus on. So this was for me, it was a
little frustrating. And you mentioned the coins, and that's the

(08:39):
next thing we see in this episode, and Derek really
locks in here. Overall, a really great final and a
fantastic season for Derek Chavez. You know somebody who I
think now in his Challenge career, he has said that
he wants to come back, and I think he definitely will,
you know, with it's on All Stars or on the Flagship.

(09:03):
But anybody who's thinking that like this was a fluke
just because there was swimming, Like, Derek's a great runner,
so all those finals with all the running that would
have benefited Derek too, you know, had they been on
land and all of that. So he ends up getting

(09:23):
the coin counting done first. And I don't know if
this is the hot take because I haven't seen all
the social media stuff about some of the checkpoints. I've
seen it about the Karma vote, but the checkpoints. I
actually didn't hate the coins in the singing. I thought of, like,
make them do something different than just like you know,

(09:45):
the overnight portion has always been something different or random
and I was fine with this. This drove them nuts,
and that's what finals are, like, they're meant to put people.
So this was stupid as a concept, but like it
was funny as a viewer, you know.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, And like you said, it was different, and that's
why I kind of like this final a little bit.
I feel like it could have been two hours and
we could have streamlined it a bit, but I think
that as a as a viewer, you want something different.
It's just one of those things where I think a
lot of people it's hard to quantum or see how

(10:26):
difficult this final really is, Like doing that much swimming
does take a lot out of you.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
But to us at home, it's kind.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Of like we always go back to season thirty three
because that final seems so big. It seemed so hard,
and it was really hard, but it just the grandeur
of it and seeing how much it took out of
so many how much exhaustion it made the players.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
We felt it.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
We felt it at home, and I feel like that
the way they shot it, the way they portrayed it,
made it so much bigger and it was really difficult,
Whereas I think some of the finals after that, the
way it was edited. The way it was cut, it
kind of lessens it to where everybody's just like chasing
that season thirty three, like feeling of that was exhausted.

(11:17):
And it doesn't help when Jordan is making it look
so easy when you see him kind of like it
was finally this round where he was like, I'm feeling it,
but we don't really get that feeling because he's so
far out ahead. He's so good in this final to
where it's like, oh, he's doing it, it must.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Be easy, you know, but it's not. It's definitely not.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
He We're looking at this right and the guy that
he was switching daily challenges with during the individual part
of this game is struggling twenty minutes into the swimming
on this yeah, and look like I there are people
who are fish in the water. There are people who

(12:03):
suck in the water. And you know, I've also seen
the discourse about all the swimming that was involved in
this final. I come on the point of look, swimming,
it's been a part of finals, kayaking puzzles, Like, yes,
they focused on swimming more in this final. What do

(12:25):
you like they switched it up. It's not that big
of a deal to me, like, I I don't know.
I just don't find that argument of like, oh, there
shouldn't have been as much swimming. They wanted to, you know,
switch things up and have the boat be the center

(12:48):
of the final and the resting and starting point of everything.
Why the hell not? Like, I get it, it's a
lot of swimming, you know, could they have done a
little bit more short But you know, I don't. I
don't think it was this like horrible thing that they
decided to do all this swimming. Swimming's good part of

(13:10):
the challenge. Yeah, so we get the coin counting. We
ended part one last week with Jenny really having a
tough time. The guys. The girls are all just like Jenny, please,
like we're losing count of our count because you're going crazy.

(13:34):
Jenny eventually gives up, goes to sleep upstairs, or at
least tries to rest upstairs, as the rest of them
keep singing and counting, singing and counting, and a big
win here. Derek, Chavez and Rachel get first place for
the guys, Jordan and Michelle second place, Kylond and Jenny third,

(13:59):
Jory and Banana last. I think the highlights here for me,
you know, Granted, I get that Jordan is such a
great swimmer, but we have gotten Bananas coming in third
or fourth on a bunch of these checkpoints, and these
finals are where Johnny shines. So I was I've been

(14:21):
shocked to this point to see and we see it
later on in this episode. Was this surprising for you?
Seeing Johnny like in the back of the pack so frequently, it.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Really doesn't surprise me. I mean he did. He is
doing well.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
He's finding a renaissance and being able to get back
to the final after having so many years of the
Banana's curse quote unquote to have not even been close
to sniffing a final in a long period of time
between twenty eight and like thirty five, which are twenty
eight and thirty five, which that doesn't seem that long,

(14:59):
but it it is for him, Like by the time
he was finishing up that twenty eight finals run, he
had been to the final I think five of six
seasons at a certain point, so he was on the
run and then had seven seasons of just nothing for
a while, and so he finds a renaissance, getting more

(15:20):
friends on the seasons and everything, so then people forget,
oh he's actually really good, but after season thirty five,
it just feels like, I don't know, he makes the final.
In season thirty eight, he gets second place, and it's
he does relatively well, but he's going up against Jordan
and a Nissa. The freak accident that happens between Arasio

(15:42):
and Olivia. If that doesn't happen, I don't think Banana
zend Nanni are really finishing up more than earlier than
third place on that one. And then we've seen him
recently on USA two by himself, and I believe in
he got like third place or second place at the

(16:03):
end of that one too, So I mean he's I
think there's a point where Johnny is a good player.
There's no denying that, especially with how long he's been
on the show, how many seasons he's had to endure,
all the eliminations, the daily challenges, all that takes a
toll on you, and then be able to go for

(16:25):
so long in the filming process that I don't think
a lot of people were or able to do that
at this point. But when it comes to the final,
it's he's gonna need something perfect in his wheelhouse and
the right competitors. In my opinion, to get that next one,
to get that eighth, to get whenever, and however long

(16:48):
he keeps on going to get that eighth one, it's
gonna need to be a perfect storm for him, in
my opinion at this point in his Challenge career. Not
to say he can't do it, I just think that
after seeing his more recent final runs, it's it's gonna take.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
It's gonna take a bit to push him over the edge.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
You talk about, you know, him needing the right set
of competitors and the right the right set of circumstances.
And Johnny, we have seen it in the dailies. We've
seen it in elimination and in the finals at these

(17:27):
random ass like you could call some of them carnival
games that they do in the finals that we've seen
in the past. For whatever reason, this man is an
expert at them. So that's what he needs, uh, you know.
And then of course he is used to, like we've

(17:50):
heard from multiple people in this episode, when we go
to confessional, you can prep all you want on a treadmill,
you know, running throughout your hometown, whatever. Nothing compares to
actually running it and having pressure of knowing that you're

(18:13):
getting you know that you're in the thick of it
for your share of five hundred grand. Yeah, and then
half of that after taxes. But still it's you know,
I think that experience really will help Johnny as well.
So this first checkpoint in the water we're finding it's

(18:35):
called submerging terror, one of the first checkpoints today that
they have to follow the instructions and come on back.
They have to swim down and get a key under
the raft once they get to the beach inside the cave.
I felt like these ones that had the instructions on

(18:58):
like that placard, if you will, it was very hard
to track like what they actually needed to do. Maybe
I just wasn't watching as closely because I'll be completely honest.
When like the guys were running this, it was hard
for me to watch just because I knew Jordan was
winning this, Like, yeah, it did not matter if Derek

(19:20):
got every single karma point. Jordan was getting first on
every single checkpoint. Now, the girls was very entertaining to
watch with how there was so much fluctuation between the
four of them throughout these two days. And you know,
we do see Jenny doing really well overall, but then

(19:41):
like she's really like we're seeing this like coin counting
thing get to her, you know, as someone who covers
the show and like you know, looks back on everything,
you know, I know there were a lot of people
that were you know, there were definitely of like, oh,

(20:01):
you know, there could have been a fifth Era four
girl instead of Jenny. She comes on here as she's
playing from the bottom from the jump, joins Banana's Angels,
and then really does incredibly well here in this final,
just based on the physical aspect, you know, forgetting the
karma points. What are your thoughts about Jenny West here

(20:25):
on her her second or wait is it her second? Yeah? No,
her third season on them?

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Oh third season, second final, Yes, yes, I think she
did really well. I mean, when Jenny's on the season,
you can expect her to be a highly athletic, very
competitive player who will be good at a lot of
things and somehow have some deficiencies in others but be

(20:52):
able to make up for them. I mean hearing her
that she hasn't swum swam, gosh, swam in since season
third four, yet here she is like getting first place
in swimming portions, Like yeah, it's it's really really impressive
because she just has that extra gear. I think that

(21:13):
some people soured on her in the final because of
how much like she was complaining or being frustrated with
the conditions, and to be fair, like the.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Final that she was in prior.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
That was tough from a snow standpoint, but does not
really compare to what they did in season forty.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
So I think that she just did a really great job.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
You don't really expect from her drama hookups or anything
like that, but you can expect a highly competitive player,
which you have to give props to her because I
think she would have won three out of three if
she would have been able to win against Tory in
the Hall Brawl and made the final, if she would
have beat Toy in the Hall Browl. In season thirty four,

(21:57):
she is making that final and most likely winning it
with the UK team like easily. So she's just really
really strong and really I think if she comes back
for another season, she's she's getting a third win.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
She makes the you would think she makes the boat
on thirty four when they're solving that puzzle. I think
she beats d and then her rogan C team Jordan
go on to win for the UK team in thirty four.
If yeah, like you said, if she wins that Hall
Brawl against story, which is just like a crazy thing

(22:36):
to think about the fact that this is a woman
who is a haul brawl away from never losing a
Challenge season and being a time champed. It's crazy. Even
with the loss in Hall Bral, she has a very
impressive track record, and because she doesn't get involved in
the drama and she's not like she's not as big

(22:59):
in the social media streets of the challenge, she doesn't
always get targeted and people are like afraid to go
up against her, you know, because like if it's physical,
forget about it, like beat. So, yeah, I was very
impressed with Jenny. I was. I'm still surprised, you know,

(23:23):
as you can hear them having a hard time formulating
a sentence that she's saying she didn't swim since thirty
four and she's keeping up with Jordan. On day two,
they're reaching the boat very you know, one A or
one one A. They're right next to each other. Yeah,
there were then a few strokes of each other, which

(23:45):
is it's shocking, you know, but you're right, she does
have this different gear and the only thing Jordan struggles
with in both days of this final uh you know,
one of one of the few things that Jordan wisely
struggles with on the show, because we've seen him do

(24:06):
things with lest fingers than we would ever think. But
the way that they had the kayaking for this checkpoint,
when they had to go kayak all the way out
and come back, you could tell this was gonna be
tough for Jordan because when he rows on the west side,

(24:30):
he's not going to be able to get anything done really,
But yet again he still gets for his place.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
And it's really interesting you bring that up because I'm
just thinking about it. Kylin does talk about how when
he gets through the raft he feels like he has
a chance because he sees everybody still there, Like he
still sees Jordan, Bananas, and Derek still there, and it
seems like they get their keys at relatively similar pacing,
Like Jordan gets it a little bit before Bananas and dare,

(25:00):
but they're not, like there's not this huge gap between them.
Yet Jordan gets to the boat with having difficulties with
the rowing, gets back to the boat by a large margin.
Like it's it's very very impressive.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
The guy just there's nothing he And I know some
people are gonna hate hearing this because they hate him,
but there's nothing he he he can't do. I mean,
there have been so many examples that I can think
of off the top of my head, whether it's that

(25:37):
like crazy elimination with the the hammer type thing that
they were swinging him and Sarah against Zach and John Ay,
him beating Josh and tugle War, like all this stuff
should never happen, but he finds a way. But I mean,
this this final was tailor made for Jordan. You talk

(26:01):
about Kyland and he's helping out his good friend here.
Michelle Fitzgerald one of, if not my favorite contestant on
this season. You know, I've I've known Michelle for a
while from different reality TV events, and Michelle is a wonderful,

(26:21):
wonderful person, and I'm thrilled that she has had this
season where you know, she's won multiple eliminations, she's founder people,
and you know it seems like her and Devon are
you know, very happy together. Just found out from the
pre or the postseason press that they're not going to

(26:42):
do forty one, which for Michelle I think is a
smart move. She's done two and a half years of
either filming or watching a season in a row. Kyland
helps Michelle up here, like up on the Little Doc,
since Michelle's on the tough time lifting herself off. But again,

(27:04):
Michelle's in it on a lot of these checkpoints. So
I mean between the final and like her journey to
get here. You know, what are your your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
On Michelle incredible?

Speaker 3 (27:15):
I mean, tanasty. I think I am proud of how
she was able to compete. I mean if you tell told, gosh,
man love being able to talk today, but.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
I'm in the same boat, don't worry.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
But the way if you would have said to anybody,
any Challenge fan, that Michelle's going to go into like
three eliminations over the course of the season and make
the final and be like so close at possibly winning
this thing, I think many people would be like, you're crazy,
Like there's no way because of her past Challenge experiences

(27:52):
have just she got heard she hadn't made a final,
and then you're saying that on the toughest, biggest stacked
cast ever with legendary players and champions galore, that Michelle
was going to be a contender. I think a lot
of people would have said no, but she did. She
did everything like she did what people wanted out of

(28:16):
this season, having friendships, making friendships, but not like coming
in with a ton of friendships. Even the friendship she
was coming in with splintered, which she had with Bananas
splintered because of everything that happened with Devin. And then
on top of that, she has to go in earner
spot over and over and over again prove that she

(28:37):
deserves to be here, makes the final and is just
like so close one one point away slash two points
away of being being right there a crown. So I
just really love the way that she played. It's just
one of those things where it's unfortunate the format that
ultimately bit her. But also there was a few stumbling

(29:01):
blocks in a few in a few spots of the final,
like some of the checkpoints like ghost Ship and the
one that we're talking about now submerged terror that if
she could have just not gotten fourth place, what could
have been on the on these checkpoints. Growing up I'm
going to small tangent growing up watching like sports, it's

(29:23):
like that flag at the end of the game. It's like,
oh my gosh, if we wouldn't have got screwed on
that flag, we could have won. But as I've gotten older,
it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, but
if we didn't only score three points in the whole
second half, then we wouldn't have been put in that
position to where if we got screwed over a flag
or something. Not to say that this is an excuse

(29:44):
for the karma points, but it's one of those things
where it's like the.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Ghost ship checkpoint.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
She got there first, got a check first, and if
she could have just gotten that barrel correct right at
the beginning.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
She's cruising, she's cruising the rest of.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
The way, and it's like not even a matter of
what what happens at the end, but it's just those
minor stumbles that start to add up, and in a
final you just can't have. You just can't have stumbles.
You can't have losing an or losing a losing your
boat and then paddling up fourth behind everybody. But she
did an incredible job, and if there was a final

(30:19):
for her to have and should have one, it's this one.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
In my opinion.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, and again look like maybe down the track right
right out combination of people, you know, right right final?
Could she get it done? Yeah? I think so. I
think she more than proved that. If you and again

(30:47):
you brought up this preface, so let me let me
do my own. If I would have told this season starts,
if I would have told you, Michelle, there's twenty women,
twenty of the best women in the history of the show.
You're gonna beat Naya, Olivia and Tina in elimination. You're

(31:07):
gonna go up against Rachel, Jenny and Tori in a final,
and you're gonna be in it. Come on, I mean,
and you know she she was in it with you know,
she provided us with the drama with bananas. She has
that great moment earlier in the season when Josh and

(31:29):
Tory are having their argument and she's just having her
cup of ramen, you know, off in the corner, and
they panned to her like she was the main character
of the season, no question about it, Like, yeah, one
of the people. It was not on It was not
just Michelle's story this season. But Michelle one hundred percent

(31:52):
was one of the main characters of this season. There
is no doubt about it. And she really puts on
a strong performance here yes, you're absolutely right. If she
gets her or and there's these little mistakes, like we
all know her to be very good at these puzzles,
these memory boards. You know, if she if she picks

(32:15):
up on those, like could she get it done? Very possibly?
But with I mean you're talking about her going up
against three of the strongest and best women to ever
win the game. So the fact that she was even
in it, and I know people in the challenge don't
like the oh, I mean that's worth something, right, Like, no,

(32:39):
it's not. I didn't win, it's not worth anything. But
I think Michelle goes some with her head held high
because this is just a tough, tough group to compete
against in any kind of final.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
And I think what she said on social media was
really great on the Instagram where it's like she's going
home with so much experience, so much like I mean,
she goes home with and she's like, I found love
on the show. So her and Devin just like finding
the love with Devin, having that happiness going past the
game and then being able to create all these memories

(33:16):
and just be together while on top of that, having
the experience of making a final, being in it and
then just going online over the course of the last
couple of days and everybody is just like rallying for her,
even people who are like, I wasn't Michelle fans coming
into this season, mainly because of how everything happened on

(33:36):
thirty nine and stuff. But it's like, I came in
here not a Michelle fan, but I'm leaving here having
so much respect for her because she was able to
go up against such stiff competition, have a great regular season,
and just provide on so many different levels on the
Challenge that I think she's leaving here maybe not with

(33:59):
the check, but.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
With so much more.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
And I think that it's just an incredible and I
love that for because I think a lot of times,
like people will discredit her win on col Rung or
something because of whatever she gets third place on Winners
at War, and people are like, yeah, but it's third place.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
She just got there.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
And then she hasn't had the best of luck on
the Challenge season because she's a rookie, because she doesn't
have all the connections, and then when she does have connections,
people don't like the way she plays or the attitude
or something. But we finally get to a point where
it all swung for her in this way and it's like, yeah,
but she's been that player the entire time, you know,

(34:39):
like finally put some respect on her name, because this
is who she's been.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
It's just she hasn't.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Been able to play the game that she's wanted to
play or like to play. And here she is kind
of thriving on this season and it's like, finally, you know, now.

Speaker 5 (34:57):
What I I've realized that Michelle people just don't like
her because she doesn't know how to get voted out
of these games.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
She doesn't, she doesn't. Her winning co wrong like the
woman knows how to play Survivor. Then you know, on
Winners of War proves it even more. She doesn't know
how to get voted out of these games. She knows
how to make friends. She did it this season, even
with you know, Johnny having you know, when Johnny would

(35:35):
win elimination or win a daily and be able to
target her, She's still found a way. And you know,
I think she deserves a ton of credit for that.
For sure. We're we're moving along here, and we don't
get a name for this at the beginning, but TJ

(35:58):
is kind of telling us all that it's time for
something to drink, and people are not happy. Yeah, because
most of the time when he says something like that,
they're just convinced that it's it's terrible. But we find
out that this challenge is called mathematical leisure, where it's

(36:23):
basically speed math one on one. So it's either you know,
a guy can face against a girl, so on, so forth,
it doesn't matter. They're not waiting for you know, gendered
matchups here, and so they have to swim to the
sandbar and then they get a I'm sorry, I'm still

(36:45):
laughing at some of these these, especially the first one.
Some of these math problems were literally so and I
know everybody, I've seen plenty of it where people talk
shit about the challenge, not caring about pem das and
all this stuff. I'm just gonna forget that for a

(37:06):
second because some of these numbers and equations were so
easy that I was losing my mind seeing these people. Now. Granted,
like you said, they swim many miles in the last
two days their whole body and they hadn't slept, but
I'm like, y'all are struggling to know what twelve plus

(37:26):
eight money yeah, what the hell, really, that's what we're doing.
Like I could get multiplication and then subtracting and then adding. Sure,
especially after the days they've had, but you can't, Like
I just wanted to pull a Devin and be like,
what's twelve plus eight? Mine is worth? Like what's Yeah? Fine?

Speaker 3 (37:50):
This is This is one of those where I think
in the second day they were really worried about pushing
them too hard, and so they were like, we need
we need an extra checkpoint, knowing that they were gonna
like beef up the Karma vote to be two checkpoints.
They were like, we need more than just six checkpoints,
Like we need a seventh one.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
So we'll have them swim.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
That's difficult, but then they can like chill out, take
a seat. We can use this as a small like
reset level kind of vibe. Have the coconut water, which
was really nice for them. But yeah, it was one
of those ones where this one and then the last
one there isn't too much too you know, like this
one is fine, it's serviceable, but it's not too too crazy.

(38:35):
But yeah, the math was the math was just like
a speed bump to then move on to the rest
of the checkpoints.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
And you can tell right, Like it was funny the
fact that it was actually coconut water. They were all
so worried that like, fuck, this is gonna be like
some disgusting drink or like we're gonna have to compete,
and the worse we do, the more disgusting our concoction
is going to be. And like it's for so many

(39:07):
of them, you know, especially Tori of the people in
this final, Like the last thing she needed to hear
was like a gross food eating thing to pop up
right before the end of the final, because that's like
her kryptonite in these And if they find out it's
it's coconut water and they're able to, you know, relax,

(39:32):
have some coconut water, get refreshed. And this has been
my thing on you know, I won't dive into the
other shows. But again, like I don't have a problem
with them just giving them coconut water or regular water.
Like I know some of the casual fans are like,
now it's a final, like they gotta earn itere Like

(39:55):
do you want them to pass out and fall off
the boat or do you want them to actually compete? Like, yeah,
give them some coconut water, give them regular water like
you mentioned with War of the World's earlier. Give them
an IV shot if it's getting too hard, Like I
don't care if you have to supplement with something, and
you should because you should care about your players and

(40:18):
your entertainment that they don't pass out and get sick.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah, so I.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Thought it was funny. You know, we find out the
last place person has to wait until everybody's back at
the Sinister and Johnny again another I think he knows
and he's facing the music that he's not winning this final,
but he's like, you know what, I'm gonna make the
Leisure or the Sinister wait for me. I'm not because
what is the point to swim back quicker? There's no point.

(40:50):
It's not This is not a time final. It's a final.
That's we've been told. At least they were told from
the jump. You're gonna get points based don't where you place,
so it does not matter if you're a certain time.
So Johnny says, you know what, I'm gonna take my
time to Sinister, and you're welcome to my competitors because

(41:14):
I'm going slow, so they'll get some time to sit
down and rest a little bit before what we find out,
as you alluded to earlier, my friend, is the final
checkpoint and Jordan and Jenny West once again still in
first place, but we get on the girl's side at

(41:36):
least a major shake up here on this last checkpoint.
This is called Champions Cove. They're instructed to swim into
the cove where there's instructions there are using these ski
or ski they're using these sea scooters instead of a
word jumble in my opinion, but they're using them to

(41:57):
get through the water. Again. Jenny is so confused here
with how Michelle and Rachel just pass her by. She's
having a really tough time with this thing. I've never
used one of these. I was so confused here. I

(42:17):
know they had to add another checkpoint, like you said
when they made the carval points worth two checkpoints? What
did you I mean? I guess it was a different
thing to do instead of just swim the whole time.
I don't know, like, did you have any opinion on it,
because I really didn't.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
This is just one of those prolonged final checkpoints that
they always have after at the end of every single final.
Like I thought of season twenty nine's Invasion of the
Champions where they had to grab onto the bar on
the speeding boat and then had to let go at
a certain time to then swim to shore. It's just
it's just a way to like or the thirty thirty,

(42:57):
which was another one where they were on those like.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Soul the salts us the salt.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
Planes and they had to just like hold on while
they were sledding being carried by a thing, and then
once it stopped they had to get up and start
running to the finish line and stuff. I mean, these
these last checkpoints are just long. Not much effort needs
to be put into it. It's just one of those
like ones where they can highlight each person and they

(43:23):
get a chance in this moment to say, like, hey,
the way this season turned out, I never would have
expected it. I had to go through so much, endure
so much. The final was really difficult, and everybody gets
their little moments, you know. So I never really put
too much into this one, knowing that it is what
it is. But it does shake things up at the

(43:44):
end because not everybody knowing how to use these things
comes to a detriment. And it's not even like it's
on Jenny, because there's no real effort that needs to
be put into this one once you get the sea scooter.
But it's the the situation of, like, I don't know
this equipment very well, and I'm sure, I'm sure that's

(44:05):
a level playing field for everybody else if they haven't
used it.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
But it comes to the expense.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Of Jenny, who hadn't gotten lower than third place at
any point in this final. She gets dead last, she
gets fourth place, and not knowing this equipment, and if
she would have known it, would she have gotten third
or second, which we will see would have changed pretty
much everything at the end of this thing. So it
definitely affected things, even though it wasn't a big old

(44:35):
checkpoint that had too much moving parts to it.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, yeah, And you know, we we're used to things
happening like that right at the end, you know, And
I wouldn't have had a problem with that happening like
meaning if it was just the checkpoints, you know, yeah,
changed everything around instead of the Karma vote. I think

(45:04):
that's more of what people were kind of upset about.
But I mean, truly a wild thing we have going
on here with this last checkpoint. It does happen where
all it takes is one checkpoint. Michelle Fitzgerald gets herself

(45:24):
a win here right at the end, but what ends
up being more important Rachel gets second, and Torri was
third and Jenny got last. Right, Yeah, and you know,

(45:45):
poor Kyland last place again. You know, I know we
talked about him earlier. A tough, a tough way for
Kyland to go out. But what I said last week
to Austin is like this rights you know, when when
whether you win a season or you don't, there there

(46:08):
needs to be some sort of story for your next
for the powers that be to give you a call.
And I think Kyland has a phenomenal TV story of
like the last time you saw me on the Challenge,
I dominated all these individual challenges and I came into

(46:32):
a final that absolutely kicked my ass. And is he
going to be ready to swim miles No, But I
think this taught him like you better get your swimming
in check. Like, yeah, I'm sure he's, you know, doing
lessons with the trainer in the pool and all that

(46:52):
type of stuff. How he may even be with how
big of a fan Kyland is of the Challenge, he
might even be swimming with Jordan so, you know, a
tough ending to this for Kyl and another fourth place
and we're uh. We we get to the boat. TJ

(47:14):
congratulates everyone for finishing the final, and we find out
there is absolutely no movement on the guy's side, which
I think the fans listen some people and I get it.
He can be brash, he can be a bit arrogant
at times. This was Jordan Wiseley's final. He absolutely deserves it. Yeah,

(47:41):
from everything, I think even the other competitors would admit it.
Derek had a phenomenal final. I think he has put
his name on the map. I hate when people say, like, oh,
someone on forty needed to prove themselves, Like everyone on
forty already proved themselves, that's why they're on forty. But
he put his name on the map of like watch out, guys,

(48:03):
like you let me get to a final, Like I'm
going to not only be there, but I'm going to
make some noise. He really does a great job. Bananas
gets third and Kylon gets fourth, and I think that's
the highlight, right, Bananas loses to Derek, Like, even if
you forget the karma points, Derek beat Bananas in this

(48:27):
final and That's that's huge, you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Beat him straight up. He was two points away from
getting fourth place, which is wild because Kylon with the
karma votes of six he got the second most. He
got six.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
He got fifteen points, while Banana's got seventeen. So that
could have really like shut things up if bananas Head
after the karma vote dropped all the way down to
fourth place.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
So with the guys, it was what Derek i'll be
had the most and then Kailin did the second most
for karma points.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Yeah, and then Jordan got third and Banana's got last,
So you'll.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Have I think we all could have predicted that. Yeah, Drew,
Here's here's been my problem this whole season, right, we're
still being you know, in random episodes we get cut
to the karma points and TJ explaining it to the
eliminated player. But that's one of my problems with it.
It was in random episodes. There were other episodes where

(49:29):
we're not seeing it at all. There's not even like
I feel like they could have put up a tracker
or something of like the people left in the game
and then all the karma points they have because we
come into this final completely in the dark. It's one
thing if we're coming into the final or they stop

(49:52):
showing it to us when there's like six guys six
girls left and they just cut it then. But at
least we know, right, we know who's doing well who's not. Granted,
I could have told you that order for the guys.
I think a lot of people could have. Derek didn't
make a single enemy on the season. Well maybe Tony,

(50:15):
but like we're talking about one person in the cast
of forty, you know, and the rest of the guys,
I could have told you that order. But with the
girls and what we're about to get into, it would
have been really nice to see that order because I
think there were probably people that wanted to give Michelle

(50:36):
that credit from playing from the bottom and you know,
grinding away, and you know, it would have been nice
to see where Jenny loses this main traction of being
the sole first place winner. Where does she lose it?
Who gives her lower karma points? Like I can accept

(50:56):
that they wanted to make it part of the show,
but I wanted to see who cause this shift? You
know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (51:02):
M I and I agree with that.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
I think they did quite decent enough where they were
trying to show a ton of people's votes throughout the weeks,
and then this episode they were like flashing people saying five, two, three,
what whatever. But, like you said, as a fan, it
would have been nice and it could have been a
really good opportunity that every single week when somebody was

(51:25):
eliminated putting because they all they're doing is sitting in
a green screen on a chair, not really moving all
that much. They could have easily cropped it to where
it's a TikTok or an Instagram reel or something, put
it on your social media, and it's very low effort
to just put the background to everybody and then just

(51:46):
have it like continuously to where every single week when
somebody was eliminated, they just go through all the people
that they did with karma points, and then we could
have just like as a fan, not knowing how they're
gonna fend the ending, because I'm sure they wanted to
keep everything a mystery towards until the very end, so
that way it was unpredictable. But they never told us

(52:10):
until the part two of the episode that it would
count towards two checkpoints, so they could have told us
every single karma point via bonus content. They don't have
to use up the hour and a half of every
single episode to show everybody's like where they're giving karma points,
but do it as a bonus. It's an easy TikTok
that will get you hundreds of thousands of views because

(52:33):
of the people who are watching the show and want
to know exactly. It helps us as statisicians and content
creators of keeping a spreadsheet of how connected everything is,
and just another level of transparency. They could have easily
done this to where by the end when we're still
wondering what does Darre do with his however, many three

(52:54):
hundred karma points.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Like where what is he going to do?

Speaker 3 (52:56):
Be able to do with that? We could have then
heard for two checkpoints. Then okay, we're going through our
minds as we're watching the episode of who does what
to where? Until twenty minutes are left in the episode,
we would have not known and it still would have
been unpredictable until the final twenty minutes. So it's a
missed opportunity and it's just another another level of transparency

(53:18):
that they could have done but decided not to.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
So I want to reply to what you said, but
I want to quickly just wrap up the girls part
of this. Yeah, yeah, we have. We find out from
TJ that the girls part really changed. Here we get
Tory and fourth, Michelle Fitzgerald and third a point away

(53:43):
from second place, and there is no second place. Rachel
and Jenny get first, and we'll go back to that.
So I don't forget what you said, because I know
we both have some thoughts on on how the girls
things shuck out. As far as the Karma points, I
think they could have done a couple of things. I
think it's a great idea with what you said. You

(54:05):
put a video the same video. You put a video
on all your social medias of each eliminated contestant of
them going through and their commentary as they're going through
and giving people points. Because on this is for any show,
whenever there's deleted scenes, extra stuff, people love watching that shit.

(54:28):
Even if it's them just like you know, having lunch
or like you know, having drinks, whatever, people love that.
But if it's the karma points and we're constantly, as
we were told throughout the whole season about it, people
would watch it, and I know you and I absolutely would.
And other content creators and podcasters and all that. On

(54:52):
top of that, if it was gonna be worth two checkpoints,
why don't they just start the final and say that
and then say, Derek Rachel, you guys were the ones
who were in first at two checkpoints, you're allowed to
say I'm not doing it and like, I get first

(55:12):
on this. Maybe that would have been too big of
an advantage, but it would have been the same outcome mathematically.
That's kind of my thought. But I think you're your
idea of the social media thing, so that people actually
knew where the points stood, because there's already been so

(55:33):
much discord about you know, how do we know what
truly happened with every single eliminated contestant. I think it's
a really good point of like, unfortunately we don't know,
but that's what happens on this show.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Yeah, And that's and and to you, like what you said,
it's some players. The players would do better if they
knew what the format was or how the rules would
play upfront. And not only would it it could help
the gameplay from the players, it would just help like
completely calm down the allegations of possibly this was switched

(56:14):
at the very end because I've seen a lot of
those comments too, where people are like, oh, they saw
that the checkpoint, they saw that the comment points weren't
going to be that crazy if they only made it
for one checkpoint, so they decided at the very end
to make it two checkpoints to where it really switched
up everything. I don't necessarily believe that, but it leaves

(56:35):
the door open for that kind of commentary to start
to fester around, because who knows what would have happened,
you know, nobody. This wasn't mentioned at the beginning with
everything you know. I think back to Dirty thirty when
TJ says the game's going to be for one million dollars,
but the players don't know that. It's like, I wish
that that would be said to us. At least us

(56:55):
the audience could know what's going on or what to expect.
And then and even if you don't tell the players,
at least tell us you know. So I don't know.
I always I always go back that I don't think
it's rigged. It's just human error that always happens, and
they want the element of surprise. But it does leave
open so many more conversations of do you think that

(57:17):
this was truly the case that was gonna happen, or
do you think they swapped it up the last minute
just so A, B and C could happen and we
could have these moments and everything. And it's that level
of unknown I think that gets people.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
And to take it a step further too. It's just tough,
is what it is. But I lost my train of thought, honestly.
But let's talk about the girls here, because I know

(57:58):
there's a lot of thoughts out there. You know, a
lot of people love Rachel Robinson, myself included. We had
her on this podcast earlier in the season, and now, look,
the Karma vote was a part of this season. Whether
you like it or not, it doesn't really matter. Like
it was a part of the season. Now, of course,

(58:21):
there's people that are saying, like, from a final perspective,
Jenny's keeping up with Jordan on multiple checkpoints in a row.
If it was just the checkpoints Jenny wins by herself.
I know there's going to be a certain part of

(58:42):
the fandom that's going to have an asterisk with Rachel's
win on forty. But again, like Rachel didn't make the
rules here, Yeah, you Rachel competed, and then it worked

(59:04):
out that way. I understand though, where people think of
like the you've got to be kidding me, like we
were told from day dot of this season, one man,
one woman, and now all of a sudden, oh, it's
a tie and you both win. I get that frustration.

(59:27):
I do. But I think the part that I harp
back on that will not make me look at this
being an asterisk win or anything is that Rachel didn't
make the rules, she played the final, and it's more

(59:51):
on MTV for the fact that they've got to accept
that they only had one male winner but two female winners.
I don't know your thoughts on a topic that's been
heavily discussed.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
I think it's I think it's a good case in
point of I think this is the epitome of hate
the player, hate the game, not the player, Like you
can't you can't take away anything from Rachel Robinson as
you shouldn't, and she did play a really strong social
and political game the entire way through, and she just

(01:00:24):
didn't have a great finals performance. Now I wish a
certain point, I was hoping to be able to look
back and be like wow, like Rachel being crowned co winner.
I wish you would have been able to pull something
out because it just seemed like the highest ranking she
got was first in the Coins, first in the Karma second,

(01:00:47):
and then after that she was finishing third and fourth
pretty much the entire way through.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
And I think that if she.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Would have had a stronger or even like one a
couple of more first place people would of people would
have been like, Wow, Okay, I can I can deal
with this. But after seeing the performance that Michelle did
and Jenny did in the final, I think a lot
of people kind of are a little sour, a little
bit more sour on her just leap frogging into from

(01:01:17):
third to first.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
But I mean people are.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Gonna lump this in with Laurel winning in All Stars
four because of the Stars. I think a lot of
people are gonna look at this like Casey winning in
Season thirty seven, losing ninety five percent of the final
and then winning against Nannie to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Get paired up with CT to win.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
But again, you can't take anything away from those players
because they they don't control that they don't control, like, hey,
give me all your stars and everything. We should make
the stars a thing to give me all of them
and I'll benefit from him. It's one of those things
where it's out of their control. They played the game
that was handed, that was that was out in front

(01:01:59):
of them, and they were able to win. And that's
pretty much the name of the game for the Challenge Now,
us as fans don't have to necessarily love the format,
and a lot of people don't, and I think all
we can do is hope that in the future nothing
like that will happen again. Hopefully we don't see another
Karma vote. Hopefully we don't see another Stars twist. Hopefully

(01:02:21):
we don't see a random thing about an elimination win
in the middle of a final ultimately making the rest
of the final moot in a certain way to where
you feel like you you basically didn't it didn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
It's useless. So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
It's one of those things where it's like, yeah, you
can be frustrated about how it all went down, but
at the end of the day, it's not on any
of the players, so it shouldn't be where you attack
the players but be more frustrated at MTV at the
end of the day.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
I couldn't have said it better you know, I think
everything I was going to say, you just summed up
there were and you know that wraps up forty. Of course,
we have the reunion coming up, if you'll entertain me
for a couple of minutes. There are a few things

(01:03:15):
that are coming up the pipeline or already premiered. Let's
start with the one that already started. The only one
of the few people who could have competed with Jordan
in this final is currently on Peacock. Wes bergman on
The Traders three. You know, after CT and Trachelle's amazing

(01:03:38):
season being winners on Traders two, Wes is here to
represent the challenge. I really wish they had a a
woman representing the challenge. I think there's a lot of
rachel cam Kara, I think Michelle, there's a lot of

(01:04:02):
fun girl picks that they could have made. I'm happy
with the Wes being here. I don't think it's a
spoiler at this point because it's being talked about a
lot of social media. It's and incredible casts. Wes is
a faithful Drew. Do you watch The Traders? Are you

(01:04:23):
watching because of Wes?

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
I do love The Traders. I've watched pretty much. I've
pretty much watched every iteration of The Traders. I think
it's one of, if not the best like reality show
alongside The Challenge. Like, I really do enjoy it a lot.
I think that last season USA two was really really

(01:04:46):
solid with those ct and Trochelle, and hearing that Wes
is on this season, I'm definitely gonna be watching it
no matter what. But knowing that Wes is on this
season along with a lot of other incredible reality TV stars,
I was like, I gotta check this out.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
I thought Wes did an incredible job on House the Villains.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Yeah, should have won, but I think that this this
show suits him better than say, House of Villains, even
though he absolutely soaked up all the camera time, should
have won.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
And then here he is on Traders.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
I just think that it's it's right up his alli
and it's just so upsetting that it's like he's pretty
much done with the Challenge.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
But I love that we're seeing him on more shows.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
I haven't checked out Worst Cooks in the Worst Cooks
of America Here's Versus Villains yet, but I will be
at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
I'm very excited that Wes is here for I won't
spoil how Wes enters the game because he doesn't. He
doesn't talk about the whole like, hey, he wasn't on
the initial cast. I'll leave it at that. But I'm
very happy Wes is here. I completely agree with you.
I think this is a great show for Wes to

(01:05:59):
come in on. I thought it was great for see
Team Trischelle both are able to learn the game quickly
and the same thing for Wes. Uh. Wes is able
to you know, learn a game and put it in
his wheelhouse. Josh Martinez is someone that was being called
for season three, you know, with all of his connections

(01:06:19):
with his big brother Win and he would have been
a good fit in this cast. But you know, it's
a shame he didn't get the call. I would be
very surprised if we don't see him in Scotland for
either Traders four or five. But a lot of people
I could see from the Challenge world, especially after see
Team Trischelle's success on making their way to Scotland in

(01:06:44):
the future. Do you have any any people you'd love
to see uh on The Traders going forward?

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Somebody else that I think was in talks, but I
think was denied from going because of contractual obligations. Was Corey,
Uh what yeah, I heard, which he was very bummed
about that. I think that would have been an interesting
casting because it's just like I don't really like look
at Corey as like that, but I would love to

(01:07:15):
see him on that show. I think Michelle is like
my top pick. Yeah, honestly, as a representing both Survivor
and The Challenge, I think it would be a really
and she's I would just expect her to have like
a really good option of being able to go very
deep within the show. I think those two I'm pretty

(01:07:36):
solid with from the Challenge, the Challenge world.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
You know, we U it's interesting there's another person you
bring up, Michelle, and some of the things you said
kind of made me made me think there's one person
who we thought was going to become like a main
staple in the Challenge we've only seen a little bit.
Natalie Anderson I think would be a great a great

(01:08:03):
spot there on the Challenge. Someone from Amazing Race and
Survivor and The Challenge, and NAT's really good at this game.
You mentioned Corey, you know Corey like on paper and
how we've seen him play this game. If he went
to the Castle in Scotland. Corey is like the tailor
made faithful. Yeah, he absolutely hates the lying and the

(01:08:29):
scheming and all that shit. But I would find it
so funny if Alan gave him the tap and he
had to play his like trader self or being his
faithful self that he so naturally is, but then being
a faithful like I think that writes itself. And the
last thing I wanted to bring up, you know we

(01:08:52):
are we are in almost mid January at this point. Yeah,
we have a preview that we were seeing throughout this
episode here, we've been seeing it the last couple of weeks.
Of course, the news broke. I'm going to use this
term a bit loosely, but it is all Stars. I

(01:09:14):
can definitely say that with this cast, but rivals for
the fifth season of the Challenge. Granted, there are some
people that I think should have stayed on the flagship
instead of doing All Stars. There are some real rivalries here,
but then there are some very much stretches of rivalry repairs.

(01:09:39):
I guess what do you make of them taking this
theme of rivals and putting it on All Stars, and
what do you make of the cast?

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
Well, the first thing with the cast is I think
that this was their plan all along.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I think that they.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
Always wanted to make All Stars transition to having newer
players have the options of being able to to go
back and forth between the flagship show and the All
Stars crew. I don't ever believe that they were thinking
that this was always going to be ogs, even though
it started off on that we want ogs. I think

(01:10:16):
that they were like, well, we'll do it for the
first season because it'll be lower money to have to
pay for players that haven't been on the show in
quite some time. But as they were going through it,
they were like, we got to put on newer players
to be a bridge. So I don't I'm totally done
with being upset with that because I just always thought
that was the case.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
It was always going to be the case.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
But the drama, if we can get the drama that
this cast is looking like it will provide. Because there's
some cast where it's like, oh, this is going to
be a competition heavy based cast, and then there's a
cast where it's like this should be all for drama.
This cast is very leaning on the drama side instead

(01:10:59):
of the more competitide. I'm not trying to say that
as like being a bad thing. But I am worried
that it's going to be on MTV instead of Paramount
Plus because we've seen the flagship show, We've seen how
they want to go towards, and so I just worry
that with it being on actual TV being censored, what

(01:11:19):
does this season look like? Will it be similar to
what it would have been on Paramount Plus, just with
more bleeps. We're gonna have to wait and see. But
the preview looked really, really good. I did a preview
breakdown on the channel, and I'm a bit more excited
after doing the preview to the breakdown trailer for it,

(01:11:41):
because prior to that I wasn't very enthusiastic about it.
But I'm also still gonna be cautiously optimistic because I've
been too hyped on Season forty, Season thirty nine and
previous seasons All Stars four, and by the time you
got to the end of all those seasons, it's like, okay, cool,
I guess I guess that all right, to where coming

(01:12:04):
into this season, I don't want to get too hyped
up over it to then it may be squelched a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
But we'll have to wait and see.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Look, I'm going to be excited at least in the beginning, right. Yeah,
there's some highlights here. Frank is back, Shane's back, Devon's back.
I mean, these are people that the internet fandom love.
Shane and Davon are rivals. That's a rivalry for sure.

(01:12:33):
Frank and Sam. I mean, if that's not a rivalry,
I don't know what is. Have they made up? Probably,
but like, just from a challenge historian perspective, rivalry Absolutely
fessl and Amber new rivalry, but absolutely has been a

(01:12:53):
rivalry that we've seen on TV. Beth and John a Like,
we've heard all the whispers about what happened there. We've
seen it on TV. Rivalry. Now, I won't get into
some of the others because I just think some of
them are big time stretches. But I'm here for the cast.

(01:13:13):
I think they did a good job with some of
these pairs for sure, And like you said, I think
it's a fun group and I'm looking forward to the
All Stars five. I just wish they would have given
us a little bit of a break, but the challenge doesn't.
They don't care. They just say, you know, keep on

(01:13:35):
keeping on. So you know, we'll wrap up forty and
All Starts five will be on right away.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
So it is interesting timing because I've heard that the
filming for season forty one hasn't even started yet. It's
supposed to be happening in February, so that means that
we're not going to get another Challenge season until probably
August at the earliest, maybe maybe October. So it's like,

(01:14:03):
why are we rushing to get to All Stars' rivals
so soon afterwards when we could have possibly taken a
month to then have less of a waiting period after
All Stars. Like it, just it is weird that we're
having We're going strictly, like directly into it to where
it'll be two months and then possibly another four months

(01:14:24):
before seeing anything else Challenge related, which I think is interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Something with our TV, it's very crazy. But look, you
know we uh listen, we're thriving in the reality TV
world right now, just forties ending. We got Dondie going on,
which has been a great show to watch, with Doctor
Will the Golden God and Povety returning to our screens.

(01:14:51):
The Traders is amazing, So things are good. Thank you
for for of course coming on, but also thanks for
talking about uh these challenge related shows at the end here.
I'm excited. I'm of course rooting for Wes, and you
know I have a few other rooting interests, but it's
gonna be very interesting to see Wes navigate the game

(01:15:14):
as a faithful I think it would have been so
fun to see him be a trader, but maybe he
gets recruited. Who knows, but I would love to see
Wes Bergman in the chart. But Drew, again, thank you
so much for coming on and chatting, and you know,
we'll be looking forward to the reunion. Tell our listeners

(01:15:35):
where they can excuse me, where they can check you out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
I am over at YouTube dot com slash angel Cake Viz,
where I post up Challenge related content and reality TV content,
as well as patreon dot com slash angel cake VIDs
where I do more of that but even bigger and better.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
So I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
You heard the man, Go follow, Support, subscribe, become a
member of his Patreon to support everything he's doing as well.
We'll be back next week to break down part one
of the reunion thank you all for listening, and hope
you all have a great week.