April 26, 2023 • 47 mins
After a long winter break and a house move, The Chuck Crumpton Show is back! I have genuinely missed my audience. Having Mike Dare on the show is a real treat. Mike is damn good at what he does and is an incredibly nice guy. I'm honored to call him a friend and I think you will also be drawn to his practical and entertaining approach to finances. Please enjoy. Mike can best be reached at 843-548-7565 or mikedare@myfinancialtrainer.io
The Chuck Crumpton Show
The Chuck Crumpton Show
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The business dynamic and then the familydynamic coming together creates a interesting exercise and
psychology, and each case is alittle bit unique. With every upside,
there's a potential downside. The downsideis if something happens to that business and
the proper planning isn't in place,then things fall apart and it doesn't just
(00:22):
impact one person or one couple,that can impact multiple generation. And so
the planning that needs to be doneis really set up to protect the business,
but really to protect that family.Thank you for tuning into another episode
(00:48):
of The Chuck Crumpton Show, anot for profit podcast making a difference where
conversations are real and raw. Weare grateful for your support as we build
one of the fastest growing podcasts inthe US. Please subscribe. More information
can be found at the Chuck CrumptonShow dot com. Thank you for listening.
Here's Chuck. Good afternoon. Thisis Chuck Crumpton, and welcome to
(01:11):
another episode of The Chuck Crumpton Show. I am so incredibly excited about today's
conversation for multiple reasons. One,it is the first episode of season three.
Hard to believe that The Chuck CrumptonShow has just grown over the last
(01:32):
couple of years, even though I'vetaken a hiatus in the past few months,
just with a lot of personal transition, moving to a new house,
blah blah blah. So I've beenexcited with bated breath to get back to
the microphone and just share another greatepisode with my fans, who I think
(01:53):
are the best fans in the world. And I'll get to my guest intro
in just a moment. But Ihave three big favors to ask of you.
Number one, go to where youget your podcast and subscribe to the
Chuck Crumpton Show. Number two,if you could leave a review, that
would be awesome, hopefully a fivestar, if you enjoy the conversation,
(02:17):
but you're a review helps me bebetter as a host. And I do
this as a way of giving ACT. I don't charge a dime for this.
Every dollar that comes in by wayof gifts goes right back into growth
and production of the show. Andthat leads me to my third favor.
(02:40):
And if you would number three,become a friend of the show. And
again this is not for profit.This is my chance of giving ACT and
sharing messages of hope and encouragement.Helping people think and be better at what
they do, both personally and professionally. And you can find more information at
(03:04):
the Chuck Crumpton Show dot com.Today is a real treat, again,
not only because of my guests,but because it is our inaugural episode of
season three. And when I cancombine a great guest, and we've had
great guest on the show, butwhen I can combine great guest and have
(03:29):
that guest be a friend of mine, then it's a double treat. And
today is certainly no exception to that. My guest today grew up in Philadelphia.
He is a tough guy, graduatedwith a business management degree from Johnson
and Welles, started in financial servicesin two thousand and five, and he's
(03:51):
got a couple of certifications, onein Family Business Specialists and also a Certified
Exit Planning designation in his background.The proud father of three beautiful children,
Olivia, Alexander and Henry very fit, loves Brazilian jiu jitsu, loves fishing,
(04:11):
the beach and the mountains. Andagain, Mike, it's good to
have you on the show. Welcometo the Chuck Crumpton Show. And I'm
excited about our conversation. Thanks Chuckthat I'm excited to be here at the
end. It's exciting. You've gotyour third year underway, season three.
It's very cool. Thank you man. It's it's been a labor of love.
(04:34):
I feel like as a host,I'm learning something new every day,
and I think maybe for the youknow, the litmus for any of us
with whatever we do, if wecan't wait to do it, then we're
probably doing something we're designed to doright. And in addition to all the
(04:56):
things that I just said about youand what you've done and what you're doing,
I want to jump right into thepool on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon and
ask who is the real Mike Dare. That's a good question. That's the
(05:18):
question I'm always trying to answer,right Like when I wake up in the
day, who am I? First, I'd say, I'm I'm Dad.
Now there's three kids that you talkedabout. They are the most wonderful gifts
that I've ever received from the universe, and my relationship with them continue to
(05:40):
develop and grow. So I spenta lot of time with them. My
business last year I went independent.I've been with other financial planning firms for
a little over a decade and ahalf and went out on my own.
And that's been very cool because nowI really just work for my clients and
myself. There's nobody, nobody elsein the picture, no other companies that
(06:02):
are demanding assets or demanding insurance,which is nice. I spend a lot
of time with friends. I've gota pretty deep, say, spiritual feet,
so I spent a lot of timesort of working on that. I
do a lot of prayer and medicationon a daily basis, and I love
sports and athletics and staying active physically. You mentioned Brazilian jiu jitsu. What
(06:27):
I'm doing jiu jitsu, and I'mmaking air quotes here that nobody can see,
probably training three or four days aweek, and it's great. You
know. It's a it's a greatsport. It's a great community which is
growing in Charleston. It seems likethere's a few new schools popping up each
year, and it's been good.That's been good for me, it's been
(06:47):
good for my kids, my family. It's a lot of fun. That
is so cool. Mike. Ihave a lot of respect for you with
what you do in life. We'regoing to talk about what you do for
a living and your wisdom. Todaywe're excited about because I think there is
(07:08):
at least a group of people,maybe a large group of people listening to
us. And as I said aswe first came on the air, this
is a conversation between two friends that, oh, by the way, the
world gets to listen to. Right. We're both in a networking group of
a lot of business owners that youknow, really trying to make a difference,
(07:29):
trying to help each other out.I'm a big believer in that iron
Sharpen's iron. Right. The strongthat I am as a person and as
a professional, the more that Ican help you and vice versa. Right,
And I'm all about those relationships andjust creating a win win. But
when I get the privilege of seeingyou on Thursdays, it's ninety minutes of
(07:57):
fun and quickness as we kind ofshare what we're doing, what we're working
on, and how we can helpeach other out and continue to grow our
business. I am drawn to thiscomment about Mike dare you come across You
present yourself in a highly credible way. What led to obviously your confidence as
(08:24):
a financial advisor and your damn goodat what you do. What led you
to take that path? Because Ihave a feeling that a tough guy from
Philly can do just about anything theywon't do in life. Why did you
choose this path? It started outit feels like a hundred years ago.
(08:48):
I had gotten married, and Igrew up in the restaurant business, and
we had a family restaurant, andI came to the conclusion that I was
about going to take over the familybusiness that was back, going to go
and do something else. And Istarted interviewing with different types of companies,
and I liked the financial services worldfor a couple of reasons that no matter
(09:13):
who I talked to, there wasan entrepreneurial path that was set up and
that really kind of existed across theboard in the financial world, very much
an eat which you kill type ofan environment. But I started having conversations
with one company in particular, andthe general agent, his name was Charlie
Wibble. He and I were talkingabout really family businesses, closely held businesses,
(09:39):
and that was the focus that hehad, was helping people maximize and
protect the value of owning a businessfor themselves, their family and their key
people. And some of the areasof concern that he was highlighting that business
owners had. I got it.My family had a construction company that had
a restaurant, and to witness someof the issues that came into play when
(10:03):
dealing with employees, with dealing withleadership, with dealing with management, and
then ultimately with dealing and dealing withsuccession or exit strategies. You know,
how how are we going to getout of this thing? And originally,
this is my personal story, wouldbe that the family business was going to
be a generational transfer right like Ihad, where my brother in law at
(10:24):
the time might take over this familybusiness. But that wasn't going to happen,
and so it was postured up andsold third party sales. We sold
it to another family who came inand took it over. So that's sort
of a long winded answer, butbasically I got into the business of helping
other businesses like the one that Igrew up working in and spending all of
(10:45):
my time in. And since thenI've worked with a lot of different types
of clients, a lot of differenttypes of companies, and what I find
most rewarding is doing work with familybusinesses, businesses that have either multiple generations
where multiple people from the same generationinvolved in ownership and leadership and just dealing
(11:09):
with some of the struggles that cancome into play there. It's a little
bit different when Thanksgiving dinner involves multiplemembers of an llcat than when it's just
you know, mom and Dad's justa brother, brother, cousin. You
know, I don't know that Ican't say that I've never had a bad
day in the business, but I'vereally enjoyed what I've had the opportunity to
do and develop over the time thatI've been in a career. What do
(11:33):
you see Let's jump into the businessside for a moment, and who knows
right where this conversation is going togo. But I do have a couple
what I call burning questions right thatI want to pack with you today.
But when you look at family business, and I know that's a heartbeat of
(11:54):
yours, that's a focus of yours, give us, unpacked what that typically
looks like, of course without names. And you know you've got a big
old rolodex of memories of all thefamily businesses that you've dealt with over the
years. But can you can yougive us a twenty thousand foot view into
(12:16):
that what that looks like dealing withfamily businesses. Yeah, I think for
most families who are in business,the business is everything right, like that's
where everything is, and that itbecomes as a blessing and a curse where
(12:37):
this one asset, this one thingthat the family does, provides all of
the capital, all of the income, all of the opportunity for multiple multiple
generations in that family. Right withevery upside, there's a potential downside.
The downside is there's something happens tothat business and the proper planning isn't in
(12:58):
place for something happens to the membersof the family that are running that business.
Then things fall apart and it doesn'tjust impact one person or one couple.
That can impact multiple generations and multiplefamilies. And so the planning that
needs to be done is really setup to protect the business, but really
(13:20):
to protect that family. And thenwhen we do business planning, just like
when we do financial planning for anybody, all roads sort of are leading to
the it and right, so wetry to begin with the end in mind,
and the end from a business standpointis exit or succession. And a
lot of times we see a familybusiness where mom and or dad are running
(13:41):
the company and we've got kids insidethe business, kids outside of the business,
and we're trying to figure out howdo we make this fair, right,
not necessarily equal or fair, butin the business transition where we've got
a couple of kids working in thebusiness, how do we get the business
to them but still make the estatethere for the kids that aren't in the
(14:03):
business. And then, yeah,as you know, when you when you're
looking at exit for a business owner, what a retirement income is the key.
So we want to make sure thatretirement income for the owner that's leaving
the business maybe isn't predicated upon juniorcontinuing to do the same great job but
senior was doing in order for seniorto be able to not have to go
(14:24):
back to work at eighty five yearsold. The business dynamic and then the
family dynamic coming together creates a interestingexercise and psychology, and each case is
a little bit unique. I'm sureI was. I was just going to
say, you probably along with allthe certifications that you've got, you probably
need a degree in psychology. Right, Yeah, that's the funny part about
(14:50):
it. Imagine it's some of thatsales right, we're all in sales selling
one thing or another. But someof it's just like human humanism. How
do you humanity? How do howdo humans think and look at each other?
Right? It's a lot different talkingto a business owner whose key person
happens to be his daughter or herher daughter than it is that they're thinking
(15:13):
about just somebody that they hired fiveor six years ago that they really like
and it's critical to the company.It changes things, right, that blood,
that relationship changes things. Does itnormally change this is This may seem
to be a kind of off thewall question, so pardon me if it
is. Does it tend to getin the thing when you're you know,
(15:39):
my life for instance? To putit in other words, while I framed
this question out, generally, thereare not a lot of emotions, right.
It's it's more of a financial duediligence, kind of methodical process of
walking through. You know, wewant to sell ABC company, and this
(16:00):
is what we're willing to pay forit. Blah blah blah. Where does
family get in the way? Withfamily gets in the way in that transaction
that you describe. If there isgoing to be emotion, it's probably on
the delt side, the buy side, private equity doesn't tend to have much
emotion when they're coming to the table. But if I'm selling my company,
(16:22):
you maybe I value certain things moreso than somebody who was just looking at
the numbers would value them. Inthe family business, you have that,
but everybody's got emotion. So you'vegot the emotions of the the exiting owner
or the retiring owner. You've gotthe emotions of the next generation that's coming
(16:44):
in to takeover. You've got theemotions of the family that's not involved and
sort of observing from the sideline.That's not fair because probably fed more often
than it would be in a transactionbetween say, strangers. Right there,
that word comes up a lot.I think the emotions can be a positive
(17:08):
thing and they can be a negativething, and it's just a little bit.
It's been about managing those emotions,and that's part of our job as
advisors, whether we're legal advisors,tax advisors, financial advisors, coming in
and helping to keep the emotions awayfrom the table and just look at what
makes sense for everybody involved from amathematical standpoint, right. It doesn't mean
(17:32):
that we're approaching it with cold heartsor black hearts. It just means that
we have to remove ourselves from thesituation or remove our emotions from the situation,
and just be able to explain thatwe understand where people are coming from.
We understand concerns, fears and wantsdesires, but the numbers are the
numbers, and the future is thefuture, and we're trying to work with
(17:56):
those two things together. Yep,for sure, I'm gonna I'm want to
ask a question. So I'm gonnaI'm gonna ask this question of you,
and then I'm gonna insert a verypersonal story from from my business life.
And I want to do that fora couple of reasons. Number One,
(18:18):
I will give you a little bitof time to think about this question.
And you know, number two,I feel and I generally feel my way
through conversations, but I feel likewhat I'm going to share might resonate with
someone. But here's my question forMike dare Um. Can you think of
(18:40):
a couple of examples and they canbe you know, one good, one
bad, or whatever, but whereplanning has made a big difference. Maybe
maybe this exit plan for a familyowned business was going off track right,
It was going in a negative directionand the cause of planning, you're able
(19:02):
to resurrect a good deal that madesense for you know, for the family,
or you know, maybe it's agood example. So I'll table that
for just a moment, and I'lltell you the emotion, the emotion behind
one of my actions. When Isold my business a couple of years ago,
(19:22):
it was a wonderful experience, youknow, after twenty years of hard
work and sacrifice of building this,you know, it was my baby,
right, and we had a wehad a phenomenal situation where broker came in
brought five would be buyers to thetable. We actually had five l eyes
in place, and you know,the bids were sort of competing with each
(19:48):
other, which is exactly what youwant as a seller, right, And
you know, I went through executinga letter of intent with you know,
with the buyer that I chose,wonderful private equity firm. Now two and
a half years later, they've doneeverything they said they would do and more
so, hats off, which isnot always a case with private equity.
(20:12):
But I am happy to say thatit was a really good situation for me
and my family, and we workedthrough due diligence. It was great.
We had closing in the middle ofCOVID, which is weird. Instead of
clinking glasses around a cigar filled steakhouseroom, we had to clink glasses through
(20:34):
zoom, which is kind of weird. But it went great. You know,
all the transitional stuff happened, withthe exception of one thing that came
two weeks after close, and Mike, I'll never forget this. I was
sitting at my desk and we wereworking through a checklist of administrative items and
(21:00):
one of the last ones that wehad to take care of was a two
lied memo and it was a memoto file, sort of an internal memo,
and the memo said effective, youknow whatever. July one. That
day was I Chuck Crumpton resigned asCEO of my company. And Mike,
(21:30):
I'll be honest with you, wehad gone through I mean that it was
a good deal. It was abig deal. It was a you know,
zeros are nice. I'm a bigfan of Zero's. But the emotion
of that moment for me sitting lookingat those two lines, to be honest,
(21:52):
I started because I was giving upmy they and I never thought because
I thought as a serial entrepreneur thatI would build and it was my second
exit. But I would build somethingand then sell it and then you know,
(22:15):
tiptoe down through the pathway of roses. But I never anticipated having the
gravity of that emotional moment on thatafternoon when I resigned a CEO, And
I think, maybe there are businessowners that are on the precipice of going
(22:41):
through a transition. They're thinking abouta transition, or they've had a transition
already, and maybe that little storyhelps to resonate with some people that may
be listening to our conversation. SoI turn it back over to you.
You're you're helping these guys plan andexit and a strategy. Just give us
(23:04):
a couple quick examples what's worked.Well, maybe maybe a story of what
hasn't worked. But your story isinteresting that the common one, like the
family business analogy, is I've heardplenty of times, mostly speaking to say
(23:33):
the next generation, that they said, Dad's never going to leave, yeah,
and never leave, And and thatbecomes sort of an interesting conversation because
on the one hand, like likeyou, these people build these businesses and
they dedicate so much time to thedevelopment and the nurturing of their business now
(24:00):
walking away from it. It's youknow, it's not like you're sweezing the
trigger on a four or one Kdistribution right You're leaving something that that you
built. It's like another baby ina way. I think of a couple
of examples. One of the mostdifficult things I think that you know,
(24:21):
if I were if I were ina position where I was ready to transition
my business and I had a childin the business that I really wanted the
business to go to. But atthe end of the day, either the
child wasn't ready now or the childwasn't ever going to be ready to take
over the business. That's an issue. And I can think of a good
(24:42):
example where it was a trades companyand we were looking at doing a business
sort of transitioning a transition plan wherethe dad was going to retire and the
sun was going to take over.And the Sun is very very good at
that particular trade. He could runthe cruise, he could do it all,
(25:06):
but what he wasn't good at wasrunning the business and making the decisions
sort at the corporate level that we'regoing to be necessary to keep things going.
And in that particular case, theonly way we were going to be
able to do it was going torequire a fair amount of income be paid
(25:26):
to the father on an annual basisas a buyout, a fair amount of
distribution seller financing basically, and itjust wasn't going to work, and so
we called it like it was,and we brought in a group not unlike
yours, that helped him find abuyer outside. And what we were able
(25:48):
to do was put together a verynice sort of long term employment package with
some built in incentives for that sonto continue doing what he was so good
at. He just wasn't going toown the company. And what wound up
happening was the father got what heneeded, the son got more than he
was getting, so he had theeconomic incentive, not quite as if he
(26:11):
owned the business, but close enough. And then you know, the third
party came in and did what theydo and everybody was happy after that.
So sometimes it's it's getting through througha tough conversation in order to get to
a better strategy. One of thethings that I think, you know,
(26:33):
it's it's not a very it's nota great example, but we had done
a buy sell agreement and it wasit was a business that was owned by
one person, and so it waswhat's called a unilateral buy cell, where
it's just you know, normally ina buy cell agreement we would do in
a partnership where if I pulled concreteand my partner ports concrete and he dies,
(26:56):
well, now I'm in business withhis wife, and his wife doesn't
particularly want to be in business withme. She doesn't particularly like the concrete
business. That's an issue. Sowe execute a transaction upon his death where
I'd buy his wife out. Shehas to sell me the company and I
get to get all the shares.But in a unilateral buy self there's only
(27:17):
one person, and so we hadthis buy sell set up where it was
if the father passes away, themother would get cash money and the sons
would take over the business. Andit worked out because what wound up happening
when he passed was there was enoughmoney that came in as a result of
(27:37):
life insurance contracts that were purchased sothat the sons could replace not only what
he was doing with the business,but also have enough money to provide the
money that the mom needed, thewife needed, the surviving spouse needed in
order to live very comfortably for therest of her life. So it was
(27:57):
not the planning that we had hopefor, right because it was it was
triggered at death. But because theplanning was in place, the company stayed
afloat, the family stayed in business, and without that planning, the family
might out of stayed in business,which would have been in real shame because
they had enough to go through withoutthat. Wow. Wow, for sure,
(28:19):
We'll be right back with our guest. I'm sure you join me in
being excited that life is beginning toreturn to normal. Meetings and conferences are
opening back up, and the scheduleis already getting busy. I'm excited to
speak to your organization in a keynote, panel or workshop. I'll do my
(28:44):
best for you. With over twentyfive years of professional speaking experience, I'll
bring value and passion to your organization. Let's have a quick chat to see
how this might work for you.Go to Chuck Crumpton dot com to schedule
a no obligation call with me todiscuss the topic your group needs. Now,
(29:08):
please enjoy the rest of the conversation. If if I'm the owner of
a small family business, right andI'm listening to Chuck and Mike talk,
and I'm thinking of some type ofexit, whether it's to sell on the
(29:30):
open market, what to sell towhatever, whatever the buyer profile looks like,
it's a you know, it's asell to someone that is not part
of the business, whether an employeeor family member or looking like we've you've
just talked about. I'm looking towill this to one of my children or
(29:55):
look at my second in command anddo some type of employee you know,
ownership, buy out, esap,whatever, right, some some type of
model that you know funds this transition. And I'm listening to Chucking Mike talk.
What is the first question that I'mgoing to ask Mike Dare when I
(30:18):
pick up the phone and call MikeDare or find Mike Dare on social media
and I opened the lines of communication. What should be that first question I
asked? I would think it wouldbe something in that in the realm of
how am I going to get outof this thing? Right? And maybe
(30:41):
they're not ready to talk about that, but I think I think that's the
question right when you know, whatis my retirement going to look like?
Because that's a question that I'm goingto throw back or ask back, which
is what do you want life tolook like? Right you leave your company,
what do you want your life tolook like? And what kind of
income do you need? What kindof life do you want to live?
(31:02):
And then if it's a family businesssort of, what do you want your
kid's life to look like? Maybethe best option isn't to have the kids
take over the business, right maybebehind the scene, I never really liked
it, or it was too muchwork, not enough payoff. You didn't
get to spend time with those kids. And part of why they were in
the business was to spend time withdad. That's it goes back to that
psychology compoted. But how do Iget out of this thing? Can my
(31:27):
son take over? Can my daughtertake over? Can my management team take
over? Or does it make senseto look outside? Because a lot of
times it look makes sense to lookoutside. Right. Internal transfers are nice,
but most of the time when youdo that, you're buying yourself out
anyway, whether it's your family that'staking over or buying you out, or
(31:48):
it's a management group that's buying youout. A lot of times it's your
own money that you're being bought outwith. So maybe the best thing to
do is I'll tell them to callChuck if we figure out figure out what
year, what your retirement picture isgoing to look like. But getting getting
cash from outside and transferring your businessownership like money is good, and I
(32:13):
think I think sometimes we look atit and that that winds up being the
best option because we can take everybody, take care of everybody that way,
and not have to worry so muchabout the business itself. Right, everybody
can be taken care of they wantto stay on board as an employee leadership
at some level. There's a lotof options there if we're if we're selling
(32:36):
outside, whether it's the pe orjust to somebody who's looking to buy a
business. Right we live in Charleston, South Carolina, display of people looking
to move here and buy a business. I'm a big believer and feel free
to comment on this. I'll makeI'll make a editorial commented, then feel
free to weigh in on it.I'll call it that freedom discussion. I'll
(33:00):
give you a case in point.I have a I have a client right
now that is we'll be selling theirWe'll call it a construction business. Yeah
said, you know, and youknow it's it's it's a it's a family
owned business. Back to your illustrationearlier about you know, working with family
(33:24):
owned businesses, right, this isa family owned business, been in business
for years. They they've worked hard, they have built an incredible business with
a great reputation. And I wouldsuspect, without of course mentioning who or
(33:45):
any particulars about the their ibadah ortheir numbers, but we're probably looking at
a transactional value of somewhere around twentymillion dollars. Okay, that's a nice
pay out for a job well done. Right, And one of my meetings
(34:07):
maybe two months ago with the ownersof the business, my question was to
them, what comes next? Soif we do our job right, a
buyer will step up and you know, write them a check the don electronics
(34:29):
funds, transfer whatever for twenty milliondollars. So it's you know, Tuesday
afternoon, and I've worked for thelast thirty five years busting my tail to
build this company. And next week, you know, it doesn't happen that
quickly. For next week I'm nolonger the owner of that business, and
(34:55):
I have twenty million dollars in thebank. Again, job well done,
My question to these folks over lunchwas simply, what do you do next?
Right, You're not you're not ninetytwo, right, You've got you
(35:17):
know, theoretically, you have alot of life left at the end of
this transaction. What you do next. It used to be people retired for
a few years and then they died, So it doesn't go like that for
everybody anymore. So people have twentythirty years of retirement, which you know,
(35:37):
if I have a twenty million dollarcapital event that occurs on my last
day of running my business, Iprobably not worried so much about running out
of money, but I am worriedabout what am I going to do it?
And I think that, you know, having that plan in place ahead
(35:58):
of time probably saves people from depression, saves some people from divorce beasts.
Going to the office every day orthe job site every day and all of
a sudden, you're at home withyour spouse every day. That's probably an
issue. So, you know,it's a great question, and I think
(36:21):
it's probably one that people think aboutand maybe they come up with some ideas,
but having a maybe almost a writtenplan for that would be a great
idea. Yeah, I had theidea one time years ago, as for
a company that that helped people retire, not in the way that a financial
advisor helps somebody retire or somebody whohelps in the business transaction or transition helps
(36:47):
people retire, but just kind oftakes them to the next thing, sort
of sets up some new goals.It helps maybe get involved with different activities
or hobbiests. Would be a funbusiness. I don't know if it would
be very lucrative. Well, actually, you know what, Mike, that
that's a great segue. I havea and I'm all about with my show
(37:07):
pivoting right, this this, thisshow, this podcast is about life and
business. And to me, wedon't live on a on a desert island,
right, Our our our lives areconnected to our businesses and vice versa.
Right, We're intermingled. We don'tabsolutely right, we don't get up
(37:30):
at at eight every morning punch youpunch in and punch out at five.
And as business owners, right,we we we we we go into a
happy hour, we go into theevening. A lot of times we go
into the night with something on thetop of our brain or or lodged deeply
in our heart. Right, I'mcurious. Now. I'll get back to
(37:52):
a couple quick questions as we closeout the show today. But I'm curious,
and I generally ask this of allof my guests, and you don't
you don't know this is coming becauseyou didn't have any of the questions.
Was there something that connected you inyour personal life that fueled this passion that
(38:21):
you have in your business life.Yeah, one of that. There was
a second company that was a commercialdesign and build firm that my great grandfather
had started, and my grandfather andhis brother brothers it's been a while since
(38:45):
I sort of heard this point ofstory wound up buying him out and and
they ran the company. My grandfatherwas sort of the last man standing as
far as lifeless concerned, and atsixty seven he was working full time and
then he got cancer and a coupleof years later he passed away at sixty
(39:08):
seven. But he was a guywho basically died at his desk, not
literally. But he didn't retire,he didn't sell the company, he didn't
transition out. He worked until hepassed away, and then some other family
took it over and through some decisionsthat were probably not great. We'll say
the company went under, and ina quick and dirty case study at what
(39:31):
happened there, it became clear thatthrough some planning, it didn't have to
go that way. If some differentplanning had been done, it didn't have
to go though. And then Ilook at that second company, the restaurant,
where the idea was going to bea family transfer, but then the
family didn't want it transferred, andso it made sense rather than hang on,
(39:54):
hang on, hang on, tojust sell it and let mom and
dad have that little event and gooff and do the retirement thing. And
then my generation we all went ourown directions and did our own thing.
But it was really the family businessesthat I grew up in and just sort
of seeing how things went had theyboth transitioned into other hands one way or
(40:19):
another, and realizing that there wasan opportunity for me in my career to
be a part of that process.And whether it was to step in and
offer the opportunity to do some goodplanning work that avoided catastrophe or to step
in and do some good planning workthat just made a good thing better.
(40:40):
I wanted to do that, andso that's that's really what I try to
do now. Right, How canwe take what you're doing now and make
it a little bit better. Howcan we look at what you're doing now
and maybe try to avoid some mistakesthat could be catastrophic. And again going
back to the family business, ifthere's a catastrophe that that it happened at
(41:01):
the family business level, well that'sa catastroph future of the family itself and
that's a shame, especially if wecan be avoided. For sure, Well,
you're I mentioned this earlier in ourconversation. Your competence exudes from what
(41:22):
you do. So as a professionalin what I do, I applaud you
for having a very high level ofcompetence in what you do. But I
would also add a couple more thingsto competence. I would add care,
and I would add character. Andif I'm putting my money, if I'm
(41:46):
entrusting someone with my money, ifI'm talking to a financialist Azer lay Man,
I will I do want someone thatis competent, that cares, and
that has great character. And Iwould say, you, my friend,
you possess those qualities. Well,thank you. And I'm not a stockholder
(42:12):
in your business, so no legenda. Maybe we've talking about that in another
about that's all right, that's right, that's right. Well, that's very
cool. Okay, so we're wrappingthis conversation up. I have one quick
question for you, and then I'mgoing to ask you to share your contact
information so people can find you,communicate with you, hopefully not stalk you,
(42:37):
but hopefully we'll create even more conversationsas a result of this. But
here's my final question for Mike.There. We have a lot of CEOs
that listen to the Chuck Crumpton shows. That's my background. My heartbeat is
to share a message that is inthat hopefully is uplifted, that has good
(43:00):
content sort of design to the heartof the CEO. And we have a
lot of CEOs that listen to theshow. But my question is this,
what message do you have quickly forthat CEO, for that for that gentleman,
that lady. Maybe they're driving intheir car while they listen to our
(43:22):
conversation, they're on a boat,they're on a subway, they're walking their
dog through the neighborhood. You know, it's been a tough couple of years.
We've come out of COVID. Thingsare better from a public health standpoint,
but you know, We're in acrazy topsy turvy stock market and banks
are going nuts, and some portfolios are looking better than others. What's
(43:45):
that one leaving word that you havefor that CEO? Today? I looked
to a day the course, Well, your business has gotten you to this
point in life, and most ofthe time we reinvest in ourselves. We
(44:10):
reinvest in our business. We're goingto beat any return that we could get
in outside markets, whether that stocks, bonds, real estates, whatever,
you know, keep going and startto think about what that next chapter of
life is going to look like.If you haven't already. What do you
want retirement to be? Do youwant it to be more of the same
(44:32):
company, do you want to startanother company? Do you want to go
out and play golf every week?Whatever it is that people want to do,
start thinking about it, right,because you never know what tomorrow is
going to bring in. For somepeople, tomorrow doesn't come, so there's
no time like the present to reallystart thinking about that next chapter and start
(44:53):
to make plans true. Well saidyes, Stephen Covey said, start with
the end in mind for some ofus, right, some of us we
may have started ten years ago ortwenty years ago, but we can start
today with the ended mond. So, Mike Dare, you're doing some some
(45:15):
damn good stuff in the financial servicesindustry. Again, I appreciate you as
a person and as a professional.How can we track you well? Always
welcome to call eight four three fivefour eight seven five six five email address
(45:36):
Mike Dare at my Financial trainer dotI know I've got another brand that'll be
out and up, I would sayat some point in May decision capital,
it's not. The website's not finishedyet, but that's coming in the meantime,
my Financial trainer dot io website.You want to go and feed pictures
(45:57):
of me and read about some ofthe work that you do, that's where
you go. Also, and godforbid I ever get in another bar fight.
I don't think I've ever been ina bar fight, but if I
were to find myself in that veryunpleasant situation, my friend, I would
want you on my team. So, just for the record, well,
(46:21):
I've got to be honest, I'venever been in a true bar fight either.
And the one rule of self defensethat I believe is the most important
rule of self defense is just runaway. A good way to bed yourself
is to increase your speed. Increasedspeed and wear good shoes, right yeah,
(46:43):
or be faster than your buddy.That's exactly right, Mike Dare.
Thank you for being part of theChuck Crumpton Show. Keep up the good
work, my friend, Chuck.I appreciate you. It was a great
episode. I really really enjoyed theconversation, and thank you my audience for
being a part of the show again. Go to the Chuck Crumpton Show dot
(47:07):
com for more information about what we'redoing with the podcast. Again, thank
you for sharing a piece of yourheart and I hope everyone has a great
rest of the week and I willsee you next time.
The business dynamic and then the familydynamic coming together creates a interesting exercise and
psychology, and each case is alittle bit unique. With every upside,
there's a potential downside. The downsideis if something happens to that business and
the proper planning isn't in place,then things fall apart and it doesn't just
(00:22):
impact one person or one couple,that can impact multiple generation. And so
the planning that needs to be doneis really set up to protect the business,
but really to protect that family.Thank you for tuning into another episode
(00:48):
of The Chuck Crumpton Show, anot for profit podcast making a difference where
conversations are real and raw. Weare grateful for your support as we build
one of the fastest growing podcasts inthe US. Please subscribe. More information
can be found at the Chuck CrumptonShow dot com. Thank you for listening.
Here's Chuck. Good afternoon. Thisis Chuck Crumpton, and welcome to
(01:11):
another episode of The Chuck Crumpton Show. I am so incredibly excited about today's
conversation for multiple reasons. One,it is the first episode of season three.
Hard to believe that The Chuck CrumptonShow has just grown over the last
(01:32):
couple of years, even though I'vetaken a hiatus in the past few months,
just with a lot of personal transition, moving to a new house,
blah blah blah. So I've beenexcited with bated breath to get back to
the microphone and just share another greatepisode with my fans, who I think
(01:53):
are the best fans in the world. And I'll get to my guest intro
in just a moment. But Ihave three big favors to ask of you.
Number one, go to where youget your podcast and subscribe to the
Chuck Crumpton Show. Number two,if you could leave a review, that
would be awesome, hopefully a fivestar, if you enjoy the conversation,
(02:17):
but you're a review helps me bebetter as a host. And I do
this as a way of giving ACT. I don't charge a dime for this.
Every dollar that comes in by wayof gifts goes right back into growth
and production of the show. Andthat leads me to my third favor.
(02:40):
And if you would number three,become a friend of the show. And
again this is not for profit.This is my chance of giving ACT and
sharing messages of hope and encouragement.Helping people think and be better at what
they do, both personally and professionally. And you can find more information at
(03:04):
the Chuck Crumpton Show dot com.Today is a real treat, again,
not only because of my guests,but because it is our inaugural episode of
season three. And when I cancombine a great guest, and we've had
great guest on the show, butwhen I can combine great guest and have
(03:29):
that guest be a friend of mine, then it's a double treat. And
today is certainly no exception to that. My guest today grew up in Philadelphia.
He is a tough guy, graduatedwith a business management degree from Johnson
and Welles, started in financial servicesin two thousand and five, and he's
(03:51):
got a couple of certifications, onein Family Business Specialists and also a Certified
Exit Planning designation in his background.The proud father of three beautiful children,
Olivia, Alexander and Henry very fit, loves Brazilian jiu jitsu, loves fishing,
(04:11):
the beach and the mountains. Andagain, Mike, it's good to
have you on the show. Welcometo the Chuck Crumpton Show. And I'm
excited about our conversation. Thanks Chuckthat I'm excited to be here at the
end. It's exciting. You've gotyour third year underway, season three.
It's very cool. Thank you man. It's it's been a labor of love.
(04:34):
I feel like as a host,I'm learning something new every day,
and I think maybe for the youknow, the litmus for any of us
with whatever we do, if wecan't wait to do it, then we're
probably doing something we're designed to doright. And in addition to all the
(04:56):
things that I just said about youand what you've done and what you're doing,
I want to jump right into thepool on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon and
ask who is the real Mike Dare. That's a good question. That's the
(05:18):
question I'm always trying to answer,right Like when I wake up in the
day, who am I? First, I'd say, I'm I'm Dad.
Now there's three kids that you talkedabout. They are the most wonderful gifts
that I've ever received from the universe, and my relationship with them continue to
(05:40):
develop and grow. So I spenta lot of time with them. My
business last year I went independent.I've been with other financial planning firms for
a little over a decade and ahalf and went out on my own.
And that's been very cool because nowI really just work for my clients and
myself. There's nobody, nobody elsein the picture, no other companies that
(06:02):
are demanding assets or demanding insurance,which is nice. I spend a lot
of time with friends. I've gota pretty deep, say, spiritual feet,
so I spent a lot of timesort of working on that. I
do a lot of prayer and medicationon a daily basis, and I love
sports and athletics and staying active physically. You mentioned Brazilian jiu jitsu. What
(06:27):
I'm doing jiu jitsu, and I'mmaking air quotes here that nobody can see,
probably training three or four days aweek, and it's great. You
know. It's a it's a greatsport. It's a great community which is
growing in Charleston. It seems likethere's a few new schools popping up each
year, and it's been good.That's been good for me, it's been
(06:47):
good for my kids, my family. It's a lot of fun. That
is so cool. Mike. Ihave a lot of respect for you with
what you do in life. We'regoing to talk about what you do for
a living and your wisdom. Todaywe're excited about because I think there is
(07:08):
at least a group of people,maybe a large group of people listening to
us. And as I said aswe first came on the air, this
is a conversation between two friends that, oh, by the way, the
world gets to listen to. Right. We're both in a networking group of
a lot of business owners that youknow, really trying to make a difference,
(07:29):
trying to help each other out.I'm a big believer in that iron
Sharpen's iron. Right. The strongthat I am as a person and as
a professional, the more that Ican help you and vice versa. Right,
And I'm all about those relationships andjust creating a win win. But
when I get the privilege of seeingyou on Thursdays, it's ninety minutes of
(07:57):
fun and quickness as we kind ofshare what we're doing, what we're working
on, and how we can helpeach other out and continue to grow our
business. I am drawn to thiscomment about Mike dare you come across You
present yourself in a highly credible way. What led to obviously your confidence as
(08:24):
a financial advisor and your damn goodat what you do. What led you
to take that path? Because Ihave a feeling that a tough guy from
Philly can do just about anything theywon't do in life. Why did you
choose this path? It started outit feels like a hundred years ago.
(08:48):
I had gotten married, and Igrew up in the restaurant business, and
we had a family restaurant, andI came to the conclusion that I was
about going to take over the familybusiness that was back, going to go
and do something else. And Istarted interviewing with different types of companies,
and I liked the financial services worldfor a couple of reasons that no matter
(09:13):
who I talked to, there wasan entrepreneurial path that was set up and
that really kind of existed across theboard in the financial world, very much
an eat which you kill type ofan environment. But I started having conversations
with one company in particular, andthe general agent, his name was Charlie
Wibble. He and I were talkingabout really family businesses, closely held businesses,
(09:39):
and that was the focus that hehad, was helping people maximize and
protect the value of owning a businessfor themselves, their family and their key
people. And some of the areasof concern that he was highlighting that business
owners had. I got it.My family had a construction company that had
a restaurant, and to witness someof the issues that came into play when
(10:03):
dealing with employees, with dealing withleadership, with dealing with management, and
then ultimately with dealing and dealing withsuccession or exit strategies. You know,
how how are we going to getout of this thing? And originally,
this is my personal story, wouldbe that the family business was going to
be a generational transfer right like Ihad, where my brother in law at
(10:24):
the time might take over this familybusiness. But that wasn't going to happen,
and so it was postured up andsold third party sales. We sold
it to another family who came inand took it over. So that's sort
of a long winded answer, butbasically I got into the business of helping
other businesses like the one that Igrew up working in and spending all of
(10:45):
my time in. And since thenI've worked with a lot of different types
of clients, a lot of differenttypes of companies, and what I find
most rewarding is doing work with familybusinesses, businesses that have either multiple generations
where multiple people from the same generationinvolved in ownership and leadership and just dealing
(11:09):
with some of the struggles that cancome into play there. It's a little
bit different when Thanksgiving dinner involves multiplemembers of an llcat than when it's just
you know, mom and Dad's justa brother, brother, cousin. You
know, I don't know that Ican't say that I've never had a bad
day in the business, but I'vereally enjoyed what I've had the opportunity to
do and develop over the time thatI've been in a career. What do
(11:33):
you see Let's jump into the businessside for a moment, and who knows
right where this conversation is going togo. But I do have a couple
what I call burning questions right thatI want to pack with you today.
But when you look at family business, and I know that's a heartbeat of
(11:54):
yours, that's a focus of yours, give us, unpacked what that typically
looks like, of course without names. And you know you've got a big
old rolodex of memories of all thefamily businesses that you've dealt with over the
years. But can you can yougive us a twenty thousand foot view into
(12:16):
that what that looks like dealing withfamily businesses. Yeah, I think for
most families who are in business,the business is everything right, like that's
where everything is, and that itbecomes as a blessing and a curse where
(12:37):
this one asset, this one thingthat the family does, provides all of
the capital, all of the income, all of the opportunity for multiple multiple
generations in that family. Right withevery upside, there's a potential downside.
The downside is there's something happens tothat business and the proper planning isn't in
(12:58):
place for something happens to the membersof the family that are running that business.
Then things fall apart and it doesn'tjust impact one person or one couple.
That can impact multiple generations and multiplefamilies. And so the planning that
needs to be done is really setup to protect the business, but really
(13:20):
to protect that family. And thenwhen we do business planning, just like
when we do financial planning for anybody, all roads sort of are leading to
the it and right, so wetry to begin with the end in mind,
and the end from a business standpointis exit or succession. And a
lot of times we see a familybusiness where mom and or dad are running
(13:41):
the company and we've got kids insidethe business, kids outside of the business,
and we're trying to figure out howdo we make this fair, right,
not necessarily equal or fair, butin the business transition where we've got
a couple of kids working in thebusiness, how do we get the business
to them but still make the estatethere for the kids that aren't in the
(14:03):
business. And then, yeah,as you know, when you when you're
looking at exit for a business owner, what a retirement income is the key.
So we want to make sure thatretirement income for the owner that's leaving
the business maybe isn't predicated upon juniorcontinuing to do the same great job but
senior was doing in order for seniorto be able to not have to go
(14:24):
back to work at eighty five yearsold. The business dynamic and then the
family dynamic coming together creates a interestingexercise and psychology, and each case is
a little bit unique. I'm sureI was. I was just going to
say, you probably along with allthe certifications that you've got, you probably
need a degree in psychology. Right, Yeah, that's the funny part about
(14:50):
it. Imagine it's some of thatsales right, we're all in sales selling
one thing or another. But someof it's just like human humanism. How
do you humanity? How do howdo humans think and look at each other?
Right? It's a lot different talkingto a business owner whose key person
happens to be his daughter or herher daughter than it is that they're thinking
(15:13):
about just somebody that they hired fiveor six years ago that they really like
and it's critical to the company.It changes things, right, that blood,
that relationship changes things. Does itnormally change this is This may seem
to be a kind of off thewall question, so pardon me if it
is. Does it tend to getin the thing when you're you know,
(15:39):
my life for instance? To putit in other words, while I framed
this question out, generally, thereare not a lot of emotions, right.
It's it's more of a financial duediligence, kind of methodical process of
walking through. You know, wewant to sell ABC company, and this
(16:00):
is what we're willing to pay forit. Blah blah blah. Where does
family get in the way? Withfamily gets in the way in that transaction
that you describe. If there isgoing to be emotion, it's probably on
the delt side, the buy side, private equity doesn't tend to have much
emotion when they're coming to the table. But if I'm selling my company,
(16:22):
you maybe I value certain things moreso than somebody who was just looking at
the numbers would value them. Inthe family business, you have that,
but everybody's got emotion. So you'vegot the emotions of the the exiting owner
or the retiring owner. You've gotthe emotions of the next generation that's coming
(16:44):
in to takeover. You've got theemotions of the family that's not involved and
sort of observing from the sideline.That's not fair because probably fed more often
than it would be in a transactionbetween say, strangers. Right there,
that word comes up a lot.I think the emotions can be a positive
(17:08):
thing and they can be a negativething, and it's just a little bit.
It's been about managing those emotions,and that's part of our job as
advisors, whether we're legal advisors,tax advisors, financial advisors, coming in
and helping to keep the emotions awayfrom the table and just look at what
makes sense for everybody involved from amathematical standpoint, right. It doesn't mean
(17:32):
that we're approaching it with cold heartsor black hearts. It just means that
we have to remove ourselves from thesituation or remove our emotions from the situation,
and just be able to explain thatwe understand where people are coming from.
We understand concerns, fears and wantsdesires, but the numbers are the
numbers, and the future is thefuture, and we're trying to work with
(17:56):
those two things together. Yep,for sure, I'm gonna I'm want to
ask a question. So I'm gonnaI'm gonna ask this question of you,
and then I'm gonna insert a verypersonal story from from my business life.
And I want to do that fora couple of reasons. Number One,
(18:18):
I will give you a little bitof time to think about this question.
And you know, number two,I feel and I generally feel my way
through conversations, but I feel likewhat I'm going to share might resonate with
someone. But here's my question forMike dare Um. Can you think of
(18:40):
a couple of examples and they canbe you know, one good, one
bad, or whatever, but whereplanning has made a big difference. Maybe
maybe this exit plan for a familyowned business was going off track right,
It was going in a negative directionand the cause of planning, you're able
(19:02):
to resurrect a good deal that madesense for you know, for the family,
or you know, maybe it's agood example. So I'll table that
for just a moment, and I'lltell you the emotion, the emotion behind
one of my actions. When Isold my business a couple of years ago,
(19:22):
it was a wonderful experience, youknow, after twenty years of hard
work and sacrifice of building this,you know, it was my baby,
right, and we had a wehad a phenomenal situation where broker came in
brought five would be buyers to thetable. We actually had five l eyes
in place, and you know,the bids were sort of competing with each
(19:48):
other, which is exactly what youwant as a seller, right, And
you know, I went through executinga letter of intent with you know,
with the buyer that I chose,wonderful private equity firm. Now two and
a half years later, they've doneeverything they said they would do and more
so, hats off, which isnot always a case with private equity.
(20:12):
But I am happy to say thatit was a really good situation for me
and my family, and we workedthrough due diligence. It was great.
We had closing in the middle ofCOVID, which is weird. Instead of
clinking glasses around a cigar filled steakhouseroom, we had to clink glasses through
(20:34):
zoom, which is kind of weird. But it went great. You know,
all the transitional stuff happened, withthe exception of one thing that came
two weeks after close, and Mike, I'll never forget this. I was
sitting at my desk and we wereworking through a checklist of administrative items and
(21:00):
one of the last ones that wehad to take care of was a two
lied memo and it was a memoto file, sort of an internal memo,
and the memo said effective, youknow whatever. July one. That
day was I Chuck Crumpton resigned asCEO of my company. And Mike,
(21:30):
I'll be honest with you, wehad gone through I mean that it was
a good deal. It was abig deal. It was a you know,
zeros are nice. I'm a bigfan of Zero's. But the emotion
of that moment for me sitting lookingat those two lines, to be honest,
(21:52):
I started because I was giving upmy they and I never thought because
I thought as a serial entrepreneur thatI would build and it was my second
exit. But I would build somethingand then sell it and then you know,
(22:15):
tiptoe down through the pathway of roses. But I never anticipated having the
gravity of that emotional moment on thatafternoon when I resigned a CEO, And
I think, maybe there are businessowners that are on the precipice of going
(22:41):
through a transition. They're thinking abouta transition, or they've had a transition
already, and maybe that little storyhelps to resonate with some people that may
be listening to our conversation. SoI turn it back over to you.
You're you're helping these guys plan andexit and a strategy. Just give us
(23:04):
a couple quick examples what's worked.Well, maybe maybe a story of what
hasn't worked. But your story isinteresting that the common one, like the
family business analogy, is I've heardplenty of times, mostly speaking to say
(23:33):
the next generation, that they said, Dad's never going to leave, yeah,
and never leave, And and thatbecomes sort of an interesting conversation because
on the one hand, like likeyou, these people build these businesses and
they dedicate so much time to thedevelopment and the nurturing of their business now
(24:00):
walking away from it. It's youknow, it's not like you're sweezing the
trigger on a four or one Kdistribution right You're leaving something that that you
built. It's like another baby ina way. I think of a couple
of examples. One of the mostdifficult things I think that you know,
(24:21):
if I were if I were ina position where I was ready to transition
my business and I had a childin the business that I really wanted the
business to go to. But atthe end of the day, either the
child wasn't ready now or the childwasn't ever going to be ready to take
over the business. That's an issue. And I can think of a good
(24:42):
example where it was a trades companyand we were looking at doing a business
sort of transitioning a transition plan wherethe dad was going to retire and the
sun was going to take over.And the Sun is very very good at
that particular trade. He could runthe cruise, he could do it all,
(25:06):
but what he wasn't good at wasrunning the business and making the decisions
sort at the corporate level that we'regoing to be necessary to keep things going.
And in that particular case, theonly way we were going to be
able to do it was going torequire a fair amount of income be paid
(25:26):
to the father on an annual basisas a buyout, a fair amount of
distribution seller financing basically, and itjust wasn't going to work, and so
we called it like it was,and we brought in a group not unlike
yours, that helped him find abuyer outside. And what we were able
(25:48):
to do was put together a verynice sort of long term employment package with
some built in incentives for that sonto continue doing what he was so good
at. He just wasn't going toown the company. And what wound up
happening was the father got what heneeded, the son got more than he
was getting, so he had theeconomic incentive, not quite as if he
(26:11):
owned the business, but close enough. And then you know, the third
party came in and did what theydo and everybody was happy after that.
So sometimes it's it's getting through througha tough conversation in order to get to
a better strategy. One of thethings that I think, you know,
(26:33):
it's it's not a very it's nota great example, but we had done
a buy sell agreement and it wasit was a business that was owned by
one person, and so it waswhat's called a unilateral buy cell, where
it's just you know, normally ina buy cell agreement we would do in
a partnership where if I pulled concreteand my partner ports concrete and he dies,
(26:56):
well, now I'm in business withhis wife, and his wife doesn't
particularly want to be in business withme. She doesn't particularly like the concrete
business. That's an issue. Sowe execute a transaction upon his death where
I'd buy his wife out. Shehas to sell me the company and I
get to get all the shares.But in a unilateral buy self there's only
(27:17):
one person, and so we hadthis buy sell set up where it was
if the father passes away, themother would get cash money and the sons
would take over the business. Andit worked out because what wound up happening
when he passed was there was enoughmoney that came in as a result of
(27:37):
life insurance contracts that were purchased sothat the sons could replace not only what
he was doing with the business,but also have enough money to provide the
money that the mom needed, thewife needed, the surviving spouse needed in
order to live very comfortably for therest of her life. So it was
(27:57):
not the planning that we had hopefor, right because it was it was
triggered at death. But because theplanning was in place, the company stayed
afloat, the family stayed in business, and without that planning, the family
might out of stayed in business,which would have been in real shame because
they had enough to go through withoutthat. Wow. Wow, for sure,
(28:19):
We'll be right back with our guest. I'm sure you join me in
being excited that life is beginning toreturn to normal. Meetings and conferences are
opening back up, and the scheduleis already getting busy. I'm excited to
speak to your organization in a keynote, panel or workshop. I'll do my
(28:44):
best for you. With over twentyfive years of professional speaking experience, I'll
bring value and passion to your organization. Let's have a quick chat to see
how this might work for you.Go to Chuck Crumpton dot com to schedule
a no obligation call with me todiscuss the topic your group needs. Now,
(29:08):
please enjoy the rest of the conversation. If if I'm the owner of
a small family business, right andI'm listening to Chuck and Mike talk,
and I'm thinking of some type ofexit, whether it's to sell on the
(29:30):
open market, what to sell towhatever, whatever the buyer profile looks like,
it's a you know, it's asell to someone that is not part
of the business, whether an employeeor family member or looking like we've you've
just talked about. I'm looking towill this to one of my children or
(29:55):
look at my second in command anddo some type of employee you know,
ownership, buy out, esap,whatever, right, some some type of
model that you know funds this transition. And I'm listening to Chucking Mike talk.
What is the first question that I'mgoing to ask Mike Dare when I
(30:18):
pick up the phone and call MikeDare or find Mike Dare on social media
and I opened the lines of communication. What should be that first question I
asked? I would think it wouldbe something in that in the realm of
how am I going to get outof this thing? Right? And maybe
(30:41):
they're not ready to talk about that, but I think I think that's the
question right when you know, whatis my retirement going to look like?
Because that's a question that I'm goingto throw back or ask back, which
is what do you want life tolook like? Right you leave your company,
what do you want your life tolook like? And what kind of
income do you need? What kindof life do you want to live?
(31:02):
And then if it's a family businesssort of, what do you want your
kid's life to look like? Maybethe best option isn't to have the kids
take over the business, right maybebehind the scene, I never really liked
it, or it was too muchwork, not enough payoff. You didn't
get to spend time with those kids. And part of why they were in
the business was to spend time withdad. That's it goes back to that
psychology compoted. But how do Iget out of this thing? Can my
(31:27):
son take over? Can my daughtertake over? Can my management team take
over? Or does it make senseto look outside? Because a lot of
times it look makes sense to lookoutside. Right. Internal transfers are nice,
but most of the time when youdo that, you're buying yourself out
anyway, whether it's your family that'staking over or buying you out, or
(31:48):
it's a management group that's buying youout. A lot of times it's your
own money that you're being bought outwith. So maybe the best thing to
do is I'll tell them to callChuck if we figure out figure out what
year, what your retirement picture isgoing to look like. But getting getting
cash from outside and transferring your businessownership like money is good, and I
(32:13):
think I think sometimes we look atit and that that winds up being the
best option because we can take everybody, take care of everybody that way,
and not have to worry so muchabout the business itself. Right, everybody
can be taken care of they wantto stay on board as an employee leadership
at some level. There's a lotof options there if we're if we're selling
(32:36):
outside, whether it's the pe orjust to somebody who's looking to buy a
business. Right we live in Charleston, South Carolina, display of people looking
to move here and buy a business. I'm a big believer and feel free
to comment on this. I'll makeI'll make a editorial commented, then feel
free to weigh in on it.I'll call it that freedom discussion. I'll
(33:00):
give you a case in point.I have a I have a client right
now that is we'll be selling theirWe'll call it a construction business. Yeah
said, you know, and youknow it's it's it's a it's a family
owned business. Back to your illustrationearlier about you know, working with family
(33:24):
owned businesses, right, this isa family owned business, been in business
for years. They they've worked hard, they have built an incredible business with
a great reputation. And I wouldsuspect, without of course mentioning who or
(33:45):
any particulars about the their ibadah ortheir numbers, but we're probably looking at
a transactional value of somewhere around twentymillion dollars. Okay, that's a nice
pay out for a job well done. Right, And one of my meetings
(34:07):
maybe two months ago with the ownersof the business, my question was to
them, what comes next? Soif we do our job right, a
buyer will step up and you know, write them a check the don electronics
(34:29):
funds, transfer whatever for twenty milliondollars. So it's you know, Tuesday
afternoon, and I've worked for thelast thirty five years busting my tail to
build this company. And next week, you know, it doesn't happen that
quickly. For next week I'm nolonger the owner of that business, and
(34:55):
I have twenty million dollars in thebank. Again, job well done,
My question to these folks over lunchwas simply, what do you do next?
Right, You're not you're not ninetytwo, right, You've got you
(35:17):
know, theoretically, you have alot of life left at the end of
this transaction. What you do next. It used to be people retired for
a few years and then they died, So it doesn't go like that for
everybody anymore. So people have twentythirty years of retirement, which you know,
(35:37):
if I have a twenty million dollarcapital event that occurs on my last
day of running my business, Iprobably not worried so much about running out
of money, but I am worriedabout what am I going to do it?
And I think that, you know, having that plan in place ahead
(35:58):
of time probably saves people from depression, saves some people from divorce beasts.
Going to the office every day orthe job site every day and all of
a sudden, you're at home withyour spouse every day. That's probably an
issue. So, you know,it's a great question, and I think
(36:21):
it's probably one that people think aboutand maybe they come up with some ideas,
but having a maybe almost a writtenplan for that would be a great
idea. Yeah, I had theidea one time years ago, as for
a company that that helped people retire, not in the way that a financial
advisor helps somebody retire or somebody whohelps in the business transaction or transition helps
(36:47):
people retire, but just kind oftakes them to the next thing, sort
of sets up some new goals.It helps maybe get involved with different activities
or hobbiests. Would be a funbusiness. I don't know if it would
be very lucrative. Well, actually, you know what, Mike, that
that's a great segue. I havea and I'm all about with my show
(37:07):
pivoting right, this this, thisshow, this podcast is about life and
business. And to me, wedon't live on a on a desert island,
right, Our our our lives areconnected to our businesses and vice versa.
Right, We're intermingled. We don'tabsolutely right, we don't get up
(37:30):
at at eight every morning punch youpunch in and punch out at five.
And as business owners, right,we we we we we go into a
happy hour, we go into theevening. A lot of times we go
into the night with something on thetop of our brain or or lodged deeply
in our heart. Right, I'mcurious. Now. I'll get back to
(37:52):
a couple quick questions as we closeout the show today. But I'm curious,
and I generally ask this of allof my guests, and you don't
you don't know this is coming becauseyou didn't have any of the questions.
Was there something that connected you inyour personal life that fueled this passion that
(38:21):
you have in your business life.Yeah, one of that. There was
a second company that was a commercialdesign and build firm that my great grandfather
had started, and my grandfather andhis brother brothers it's been a while since
(38:45):
I sort of heard this point ofstory wound up buying him out and and
they ran the company. My grandfatherwas sort of the last man standing as
far as lifeless concerned, and atsixty seven he was working full time and
then he got cancer and a coupleof years later he passed away at sixty
(39:08):
seven. But he was a guywho basically died at his desk, not
literally. But he didn't retire,he didn't sell the company, he didn't
transition out. He worked until hepassed away, and then some other family
took it over and through some decisionsthat were probably not great. We'll say
the company went under, and ina quick and dirty case study at what
(39:31):
happened there, it became clear thatthrough some planning, it didn't have to
go that way. If some differentplanning had been done, it didn't have
to go though. And then Ilook at that second company, the restaurant,
where the idea was going to bea family transfer, but then the
family didn't want it transferred, andso it made sense rather than hang on,
(39:54):
hang on, hang on, tojust sell it and let mom and
dad have that little event and gooff and do the retirement thing. And
then my generation we all went ourown directions and did our own thing.
But it was really the family businessesthat I grew up in and just sort
of seeing how things went had theyboth transitioned into other hands one way or
(40:19):
another, and realizing that there wasan opportunity for me in my career to
be a part of that process.And whether it was to step in and
offer the opportunity to do some goodplanning work that avoided catastrophe or to step
in and do some good planning workthat just made a good thing better.
(40:40):
I wanted to do that, andso that's that's really what I try to
do now. Right, How canwe take what you're doing now and make
it a little bit better. Howcan we look at what you're doing now
and maybe try to avoid some mistakesthat could be catastrophic. And again going
back to the family business, ifthere's a catastrophe that that it happened at
(41:01):
the family business level, well that'sa catastroph future of the family itself and
that's a shame, especially if wecan be avoided. For sure, Well,
you're I mentioned this earlier in ourconversation. Your competence exudes from what
(41:22):
you do. So as a professionalin what I do, I applaud you
for having a very high level ofcompetence in what you do. But I
would also add a couple more thingsto competence. I would add care,
and I would add character. Andif I'm putting my money, if I'm
(41:46):
entrusting someone with my money, ifI'm talking to a financialist Azer lay Man,
I will I do want someone thatis competent, that cares, and
that has great character. And Iwould say, you, my friend,
you possess those qualities. Well,thank you. And I'm not a stockholder
(42:12):
in your business, so no legenda. Maybe we've talking about that in another
about that's all right, that's right, that's right. Well, that's very
cool. Okay, so we're wrappingthis conversation up. I have one quick
question for you, and then I'mgoing to ask you to share your contact
information so people can find you,communicate with you, hopefully not stalk you,
(42:37):
but hopefully we'll create even more conversationsas a result of this. But
here's my final question for Mike.There. We have a lot of CEOs
that listen to the Chuck Crumpton shows. That's my background. My heartbeat is
to share a message that is inthat hopefully is uplifted, that has good
(43:00):
content sort of design to the heartof the CEO. And we have a
lot of CEOs that listen to theshow. But my question is this,
what message do you have quickly forthat CEO, for that for that gentleman,
that lady. Maybe they're driving intheir car while they listen to our
(43:22):
conversation, they're on a boat,they're on a subway, they're walking their
dog through the neighborhood. You know, it's been a tough couple of years.
We've come out of COVID. Thingsare better from a public health standpoint,
but you know, We're in acrazy topsy turvy stock market and banks
are going nuts, and some portfolios are looking better than others. What's
(43:45):
that one leaving word that you havefor that CEO? Today? I looked
to a day the course, Well, your business has gotten you to this
point in life, and most ofthe time we reinvest in ourselves. We
(44:10):
reinvest in our business. We're goingto beat any return that we could get
in outside markets, whether that stocks, bonds, real estates, whatever,
you know, keep going and startto think about what that next chapter of
life is going to look like.If you haven't already. What do you
want retirement to be? Do youwant it to be more of the same
(44:32):
company, do you want to startanother company? Do you want to go
out and play golf every week?Whatever it is that people want to do,
start thinking about it, right,because you never know what tomorrow is
going to bring in. For somepeople, tomorrow doesn't come, so there's
no time like the present to reallystart thinking about that next chapter and start
(44:53):
to make plans true. Well saidyes, Stephen Covey said, start with
the end in mind for some ofus, right, some of us we
may have started ten years ago ortwenty years ago, but we can start
today with the ended mond. So, Mike Dare, you're doing some some
(45:15):
damn good stuff in the financial servicesindustry. Again, I appreciate you as
a person and as a professional.How can we track you well? Always
welcome to call eight four three fivefour eight seven five six five email address
(45:36):
Mike Dare at my Financial trainer dotI know I've got another brand that'll be
out and up, I would sayat some point in May decision capital,
it's not. The website's not finishedyet, but that's coming in the meantime,
my Financial trainer dot io website.You want to go and feed pictures
(45:57):
of me and read about some ofthe work that you do, that's where
you go. Also, and godforbid I ever get in another bar fight.
I don't think I've ever been ina bar fight, but if I
were to find myself in that veryunpleasant situation, my friend, I would
want you on my team. So, just for the record, well,
(46:21):
I've got to be honest, I'venever been in a true bar fight either.
And the one rule of self defensethat I believe is the most important
rule of self defense is just runaway. A good way to bed yourself
is to increase your speed. Increasedspeed and wear good shoes, right yeah,
(46:43):
or be faster than your buddy.That's exactly right, Mike Dare.
Thank you for being part of theChuck Crumpton Show. Keep up the good
work, my friend, Chuck.I appreciate you. It was a great
episode. I really really enjoyed theconversation, and thank you my audience for
being a part of the show again. Go to the Chuck Crumpton Show dot
(47:07):
com for more information about what we'redoing with the podcast. Again, thank
you for sharing a piece of yourheart and I hope everyone has a great
rest of the week and I willsee you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.